The Religious Right’s Battle Against Hate Crime Laws

Religion • Views: 3,474

Are hate crime laws that give gay people special protections against violent crimes a sneaky conspiracy to persecute Christians?

The short answer is no.

Jodi Jacobson at RH Reality Check has the longer answer: Hate Crimes Laws: A Conspiracy to ‘Eradicate’ the Christian Right?

Did you know that the passage of hate crimes laws is actually a conspiracy to squelch religious freedom?

Yes….that weak and long-suffering entity known as the Christian Right is claiming that efforts to outlaw targeted hate crimes against homosexual persons through legislation constitute “a guarded effort to ‘eradicate’ their beliefs.”

Stephen Webster of The Raw Story reports that:

A Christian group in Michigan has filed a lawsuit alleging that a package of hate crimes laws named after murder victim Matthew Shepard is an affront to their religious freedom.

Webster reports that the suit was:

“filed by the Thomas More Law Center — which bills itself as the religious answer to the American Civil Liberties Union — [and] the complaint claims that protecting gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered people “is an effort to eradicate religious beliefs opposing the homosexual agenda from the marketplace of ideas by demonizing, vilifying, and criminalizing such beliefs as a matter of federal law and policy.”

The suit was placed on behalf of American Family Association of Michigan president Gary Glenn, along with pastors Rene Ouellette, Levon Yuille and James Combs.

Matthew Shepard was a 21-year-old gay man from Wyoming who was tied to a fence and beaten to death in 1998. A foundation carrying his name played an important role in helping to broaden hate crimes definitions to cover LGBT people. President Obama signed the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd, Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act in 2009. The Thomas More lawsuit, filed in a U.S. district court in Michigan, names Attorney General Eric Holder as a defendant.

Claiming “there is no need” to extend hate crimes definitions, Thomas More chief counsel Richard Thompson attempted to minimize the impact of violent crimes against homosexuals. “Of the 1.38 million violent crimes reported in the U.S. by the FBI in 2008, only 243 were considered as motivated by the victim’s sexual orientation,” Thompson wrote on the group’s Web site.

“The sole purpose of this law is to criminalize the Bible and use the threat of federal prosecutions and long jail sentences to silence Christians from expressing their Biblically-based religious belief that homosexual conduct is a sin.”

Let me get this straight: The Christian Right is arguing that basic principles of humanity, and the rights to freedom from violence and discrimination should be decided on the basis of numbers of crimes against a minority group?

The Thomas More Law Center is notorious for representing the defendants in the Dover Pennsylvania “intelligent design” creationism trial, and for receiving an epic judicial spanking from the judge (a George W. Bush appointee).

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835 comments
1 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 6:54:18pm

I'm hoping like hell the "Thomas More Law Center" has nothing to do with the Catholic Church or the man who stood up for what was right against an all-powerful king.

2 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 6:54:55pm

There are good arguments on both side of the hate crimes laws. But to think that a law protecting homosexuals persecutes Christians-- that's rather revealing thinking.

3 tradewind  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 6:55:03pm

A crime is a crime is a crime, and hardly any of them are motivated by love and good wishes.
Punish the deed relentlessly, and don't discriminate until forensic science gives us the mind reading machine.

4 Ojoe  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 6:56:03pm

"Love one another."

Who said that?

5 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 6:57:06pm

re: #2 Obdicut

There are good arguments on both side of the hate crimes laws. But to think that a law protecting homosexuals persecutes Christians-- that's rather revealing thinking.

Sounds like we can agree on this topic!

6 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 6:57:32pm

re: #1 Cato the Elder

Maybe it has to do with the man who fought tooth and nail to keep Lutheranism out of England. The one who felt burning heretics was just and necessary.

7 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 6:58:29pm

Sounds suspiciously like Imams who claim counter-terrorism laws are a plot against Islam.

8 tradewind  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 6:59:34pm

re: #5 Mosh
Agreed.
And I wouldn't want to include the entire ' Christian Right ' in this argument, because I doubt that those who disagree with the premise would want to be painted with the same broad brush.
I know I don't.

9 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 6:59:38pm

But do hate crimes laws violate the 14th amendment?

We all have to have the law equally applied to us. Killing a gay person has the same penalty as killing a straight person.

10 albusteve  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 6:59:58pm

there is no such thing as a hate crime...it's another fantasy someone cooked up....don't be disappointed with the truth

11 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:00:28pm

re: #4 Ojoe

"Love one another."

Who said that?

Hugh Hefner?

12 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:00:49pm

re: #8 tradewind

Agreed.
And I wouldn't want to include the entire ' Christian Right ' in this argument, because I doubt that those who disagree with the premise would want to be painted with the same broad brush.
I know I don't.

The Christian Left is against these hate crimes laws too, I now that they have been marginalized.

My aunt is a staunch Catholic and a hard-line leftist.

13 brookly red  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:01:03pm

crime is crime, we are promised equal protection. equal is equal... that is all.

14 albusteve  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:01:11pm

re: #4 Ojoe

"Love one another."

Who said that?

the Youngbloods

15 tradewind  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:01:28pm

re: #10 albusteve
It's quite a slippery slope, and if you look at the real life experience, it is almost never applied with any equanimity.

16 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:02:19pm

I'm not for Hate Crimes laws. If you kill a gay person you get the same penalty as you would get if you killed a straight person. In my opinion the penalty should be death.

17 albusteve  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:02:29pm

re: #15 tradewind

It's quite a slippery slope, and if you look at the real life experience, it is almost never applied with any equanimity.

the whole idea is bullshit...a travesty of the law

18 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:03:38pm

re: #6 Obdicut

Maybe it has to do with the man who fought tooth and nail to keep Lutheranism out of England. The one who felt burning heretics was just and necessary.

As did the "reformers". Or does John Calvin get a pass from you?

Don't answer that. We know that texts have no determinate meaning.

19 brookly red  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:03:42pm

re: #10 albusteve

there is no such thing as a hate crime...it's another fantasy someone cooked up...don't be disappointed with the truth

actually some of the class warfare taxes currently proposed come pretty close to hate crimes...

20 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:03:47pm

re: #7 Killgore Trout

Sounds suspiciously like Imams who claim counter-terrorism laws are a plot against Islam.

Does, doesn't it?

21 tradewind  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:03:50pm

OMG. Sorry, but that Russian women's delegation...... it's a walking case of ' roid rage waiting to happen....

22 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:03:53pm

re: #15 tradewind

It's quite a slippery slope, and if you look at the real life experience, it is almost never applied with any equanimity.

Linky?

23 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:04:16pm

re: #16 Mosh

Should someone who burns a cross on a black person's lawn get the same penalty as someone who burns a barrel of trash on a black person's lawn?

24 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:04:18pm
“filed by the Thomas More Law Center — which bills itself as the religious answer to the American Civil Liberties Union — [and] the complaint claims that protecting gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered people “is an effort to eradicate religious beliefs opposing the homosexual agenda from the marketplace of ideas by demonizing, vilifying, and criminalizing such beliefs as a matter of federal law and policy.”

If your "religious beliefs opposing the homosexual agenda" include having the ability to beat people to death, I'd say you need a head-change, and maybe a different god.

25 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:04:46pm

re: #23 Obdicut

Should someone who burns a cross on a black person's lawn get the same penalty as someone who burns a barrel of trash on a black person's lawn?

Yes.

26 albusteve  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:05:08pm

hate crimes are considered some sort of trumped up soft terrorism toward a particular group...bullshit...we treat felons and killers in this country like they are someone special, ignored by society...driven to their crimes by social default....liberal garbage

27 brookly red  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:05:35pm

re: #23 Obdicut

Should someone who burns a cross on a black person's lawn get the same penalty as someone who burns a barrel of trash on a black person's lawn?

well lemmie check... yes.

28 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:05:48pm

What if a gay person kills a straight person?

29 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:06:06pm

re: #28 Cannadian Club Akbar

What if a gay person kills a straight person?

Death penalty.`

30 albusteve  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:06:57pm

re: #19 brookly red

actually some of the class warfare taxes currently proposed come pretty close to hate crimes...

well there you go...legislating the theft of your hard earned money...makes me wonder, should we redefine 'theft'?....'law'?

31 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:07:56pm

re: #18 Cato the Elder

Calvin doesn't get any pass at all from me. Crazed egotists rarely do.

More is a complex figure. A great man. But he certainly persecuted many, many people in the name of religious intolerance; in the name of orthodoxy. I realize and even appreciate that he felt it was a deadly, vital battle, one that concerned the fate of all humanity. (or at least all England.)

However, I'm sure the people fighting this law are also full of religious zeal, as was More. If you're an ultra-orthodox Catholic, More is a natural patron.

And "A Man For All Seasons" is a beautiful movie.

32 albusteve  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:08:00pm

re: #23 Obdicut

Should someone who burns a cross on a black person's lawn get the same penalty as someone who burns a barrel of trash on a black person's lawn?

what if what if...how nuanced can we be as a society?

33 brookly red  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:08:22pm

and since when is hate a human emotion illegal? hows about we make envy A crime and hang politicians who take bribes?

34 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:08:25pm

re: #25 Mosh

I think you're very short-sighted, then.

35 Racer X  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:08:30pm

I am a victim of a hate crime. The government hates the fact that I have money and they want to take it from me.

36 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:08:55pm

re: #35 Racer X

I am a victim of a hate crime. The government hates the fact that I have money and they want to take it from me.

Oh, good grief.

37 Gus  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:09:05pm

Oh brother.

38 SpaceJesus  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:09:20pm

wonder where and how these clowns get their funding

39 albusteve  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:09:53pm

re: #34 Obdicut

I think you're very short-sighted, then.

yes, you probably have an educated long view that we peons won't comprehend....bwahaha!

40 What, me worry?  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:10:18pm

re: #33 brookly red

and since when is hate a human emotion illegal? hows about we make envy A crime and hang politicians who take bribes?

Because hate can lead to killing people. How long should a minority be taunted by a majority before it becomes legal to stop him?

41 keloyd  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:10:24pm

In 2000, Jesse Jackson tried to make political hay against candidate George W. Bush with this 'hate crime' nonsense. It made the national news when some drunk klansmen dragged a handicapped black man to his death in rural Texas. They were quickly caught, charged with Murder, and excecuted within 6 months of being charged, iirc. It was the fastest death penalty I'd ever heard of, and Texas moves pretty fast on this.

Anyhoo, Jesse Jackson was shocked, SHOCKED to discover that the excecuted murderer had not been charged with a hate crime, just murder. All the left wing types feigned shock, because that's how they showed their colleagues how enlightened they were.

Hate crimes legislation is always a bad idea, without exception. It is never the government's business what is in your mind. Crimes should never be defined beyond one's actions. Otherwise, Orwell gets it right yet again when some animals are more equal than others.

42 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:10:34pm

re: #39 albusteve

yes, you probably have an educated long view that we peons won't comprehend...bwahaha!

Haha!

43 SpaceJesus  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:10:39pm

re: #33 brookly red

what?

44 tradewind  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:11:32pm

re: #22 Mosh
I'm afraid you'll have to let your fingers do the walking.... I don't have time to look up all the cases where crimes that one might think would fall under the statute ( where it exists) are not prosecuted as such. But if you want to find them, they're there. Some tags you might check include ' school bus violence ', 'child rape'......there are others.

45 albusteve  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:11:42pm

re: #28 Cannadian Club Akbar

What if a gay person kills a straight person?

what if a black guy kills a Chinaman?...what if a Sherpa kills a German tourists?...what if what if?

46 What, me worry?  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:11:49pm

So swastikas on a synagogue or a burning cross on a Black family's lawn is just vandalism?

47 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:11:54pm

re: #3 tradewind

A crime is a crime is a crime, and hardly any of them are motivated by love and good wishes.
Punish the deed relentlessly, and don't discriminate until forensic science gives us the mind reading machine.

You couldn't tell that the Mathew Shepard wasn't killed because of his sexuality?

48 brookly red  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:12:04pm

re: #35 Racer X

I am a victim of a hate crime. The government hates the fact that I have money and they want to take it from me.

/well considering all the laws they have created to prevent you from having money, I can only assume that if you are not dependent on the government you must be a criminal...

49 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:12:19pm

re: #38 SpaceJesus

The Center was founded in 1999 by Tom Monaghan, founder of Domino's Pizza, and Richard Thompson, the former prosecutor known for his role in the prosecution of Jack Kevorkian and who now serves as the center's President and Chief Counsel. Senator Rick Santorum, former Senator and retired Rear Admiral Jeremiah Denton, former Major League Baseball commissioner Bowie Kuhn, noted Catholic academic Charles Rice, and Ambassador Alan Keyes are among those who have sat on the center's advisory board.

50 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:12:23pm

re: #33 brookly red

and since when is hate a human emotion illegal? hows about we make envy A crime and hang politicians who take bribes?

Finally, a new idea.

51 keloyd  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:12:27pm

re: #23 Obdicut

Should someone who burns a cross on a black person's lawn get the same penalty as someone who burns a barrel of trash on a black person's lawn?

Yes, as long as the burning trash barrel is clearly understood to carry an identical message of threatening future harm.

52 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:12:39pm

re: #16 Mosh

I'm not for Hate Crimes laws. If you kill a gay person you get the same penalty as you would get if you killed a straight person. In my opinion the penalty should be death.

It's not about punishing people for killing gay people, it's about killing people because they're gay.

It's about making sure those people who commit vicious crimes as a way to terrorize a particular group are properly punished for it.

53 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:13:01pm

John 8: 4-7.

They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

54 Gus  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:13:31pm

re: #23 Obdicut

Should someone who burns a cross on a black person's lawn get the same penalty as someone who burns a barrel of trash on a black person's lawn?

The answer is no. This would fall into the context of symbolism and intent to intimidate. To answer yes would be like saying that if someone draws a bunch of Swastikas at a synagogue should get the same punishment as someone who draws anything on a synagogue.

55 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:13:43pm

re: #51 keloyd

But it doesn't. A burning cross means something different. It has historical context.

So do we treat the burning of a cross any different?

56 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:13:46pm

re: #47 jamesfirecat

You couldn't tell that the Mathew Shepard wasn't killed because of his sexuality?

Obviously he was.

57 albusteve  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:14:09pm

why do the feds hate the citizens?...why do the take what's ours and spend it according to their own whims?...OMG...good grief!...talking point!...Tea Party!...Ron Paul!...LGF!

58 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:14:15pm

re: #19 brookly red

actually some of the class warfare taxes currently proposed come pretty close to hate crimes...

What "racial group, religion, sexual orientation, disability, class, ethnicity, nationality, age, gender, gender identity, or political affiliation."

Do Rich people fit into?

59 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:14:36pm

re: #58 jamesfirecat

What "racial group, religion, sexual orientation, disability, class, ethnicity, nationality, age, gender, gender identity, or political affiliation."

Do Rich people fit into?

Sorry that was a stupid question scratch it "Class" is right there

STUPID STUPID STUPID!

60 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:14:40pm

re: #52 jamesfirecat

It's not about punishing people for killing gay people, it's about killing people because they're gay.

It's about making sure those people who commit vicious crimes as a way to terrorize a particular group are properly punished for it.

Yeah, you kill a gay person for being gay you get put down. Sounds good to me.

61 Irenicum  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:14:43pm

This is an interesting thread.

62 Silvergirl  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:14:47pm

re: #23 Obdicut

Should someone who burns a cross on a black person's lawn get the same penalty as someone who burns a barrel of trash on a black person's lawn?

Doesn't the symbolism have to matter? Burning a cross on a black person's lawn has historical significance. Isn't it like asking if burning a paper bag on the White House lawn is the same as burning the American Flag on the White House lawn?

63 brookly red  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:15:12pm

re: #40 marjoriemoon

Because hate can lead to killing people. How long should a minority be taunted by a majority before it becomes legal to stop him?

can is not a crime in what I consider America...

your car CAN lead to killing people... I as a pedestrian object to your driving, & stop taunting me btw, I think it is a sign of your hate for those who walk.

64 albusteve  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:15:31pm

re: #47 jamesfirecat

You couldn't tell that the Mathew Shepard wasn't killed because of his sexuality?

people are killed for all kinds of reasons...stupidity may even be one...watch your back!

65 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:15:31pm

Those folks need a big dose of memory.

Youtube Video
66 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:15:31pm

re: #61 Irenicum

This is an interesting thread.

It's gonna get ugly, trust me.

67 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:15:35pm

Idea: Some want a constitutional amendment banning flag burning, lets ban cross burning!

68 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:16:04pm

re: #66 Cannadian Club Akbar

It's gonna get ugly, trust me.

That's when the fun begins. ;)

69 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:16:16pm

re: #58 jamesfirecat

What "racial group, religion, sexual orientation, disability, class, ethnicity, nationality, age, gender, gender identity, or political affiliation."

Do Rich people fit into?

What about "class"?

70 brookly red  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:16:39pm

re: #50 Cato the Elder

Finally, a new idea.

no an old classic who's revival is due...

71 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:16:51pm

re: #68 Mosh

That's when the fun begins. ;)

That's why I'm gonna bail and drink my beer.:)

72 Irenicum  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:16:55pm

re: #66 Cannadian Club Akbar

Yeah, I don't doubt it. That's why I'm hanging back. Methinks the "stick" may be wielded at some point.

73 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:17:09pm

re: #33 brookly red

and since when is hate a human emotion illegal? hows about we make envy A crime and hang politicians who take bribes?

Hate isn't illegal.

A crime is.

If hate is part of the reason you committed the crime, if your hatred for a particular group is part of why you premeditated the crime, then you should be punished more Severely then if it was a crime of passion.

74 What, me worry?  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:17:21pm

re: #41 keloyd

In 2000, Jesse Jackson tried to make political hay against candidate George W. Bush with this 'hate crime' nonsense. It made the national news when some drunk klansmen dragged a handicapped black man to his death in rural Texas. They were quickly caught, charged with Murder, and excecuted within 6 months of being charged, iirc. It was the fastest death penalty I'd ever heard of, and Texas moves pretty fast on this.

Anyhoo, Jesse Jackson was shocked, SHOCKED to discover that the excecuted murderer had not been charged with a hate crime, just murder. All the left wing types feigned shock, because that's how they showed their colleagues how enlightened they were.

Hate crimes legislation is always a bad idea, without exception. It is never the government's business what is in your mind. Crimes should never be defined beyond one's actions. Otherwise, Orwell gets it right yet again when some animals are more equal than others.

What reason would anyone have to drag a disabled man behind their truck to their death? We have degrees of murder depending on intent and each carries a penalty. Why should this be different?

It wasn't as if this man robbed the klansman or harmed a member of his family. He was Black. That was the reason for the murder. I don't understand why people here can't understand the insidiousness of that.

75 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:17:27pm

re: #59 jamesfirecat

Sorry that was a stupid question scratch it "Class" is right there

STUPID STUPID STUPID!

So, it's okay to trash folks based on their socio-economic class?

76 albusteve  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:17:28pm

re: #55 Obdicut

But it doesn't. A burning cross means something different. It has historical context.

So do we treat the burning of a cross any different?

no..what about a swastika?...a peace sign?...a Cowboy Star?

77 Irenicum  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:17:48pm

re: #71 Cannadian Club Akbar

Sounds like a plan.

78 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:18:00pm

I admit to having mixed feelings about "hate crimes".

I hate idiots - as most of you know - with the same passion some reserve for people of a different race or religion or sexual preference.

What if I kill an idiot by mocking him to death with my rapier wit? What if Glenn Beck dies after reading one of my posts? Should that be punished more harshly than if I just shoot him without teasing him first?

79 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:18:44pm

re: #41 keloyd

In 2000, Jesse Jackson tried to make political hay against candidate George W. Bush with this 'hate crime' nonsense. It made the national news when some drunk klansmen dragged a handicapped black man to his death in rural Texas. They were quickly caught, charged with Murder, and excecuted within 6 months of being charged, iirc. It was the fastest death penalty I'd ever heard of, and Texas moves pretty fast on this.

Anyhoo, Jesse Jackson was shocked, SHOCKED to discover that the excecuted murderer had not been charged with a hate crime, just murder. All the left wing types feigned shock, because that's how they showed their colleagues how enlightened they were.

Hate crimes legislation is always a bad idea, without exception. It is never the government's business what is in your mind. Crimes should never be defined beyond one's actions. Otherwise, Orwell gets it right yet again when some animals are more equal than others.

If they should never be defined beyond ones actions, does that mean we should give people the same penalty for manslaughter and murder one?

80 reine.de.tout  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:18:58pm

re: #74 marjoriemoon

What reason would anyone have to drag a disabled man behind their truck to their death? We have degrees of murder depending on intent and each carries a penalty. Why should this be different?

It wasn't as if this man robbed the klansman or harmed a member of his family. He was Black. That was the reason for the murder. I don't understand why people here can't understand the insidiousness of that.

It is indeed insidious.
But I don't know how it's possible to punish a person more than executing him.

81 Irenicum  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:19:11pm

re: #65 MandyManners

Mandy, can I just say thank you for being you!

82 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:19:12pm

re: #75 MandyManners

So, it's okay to trash folks based on their socio-economic class?

WooHoo!

Youtube Video
83 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:19:17pm

re: #73 jamesfirecat

Hate isn't illegal.

A crime is.

If hate is part of the reason you committed the crime, if your hatred for a particular group is part of why you premeditated the crime, then you should be punished more Severely then if it was a crime of passion.

We are all equal under the law. Read the 14th Amendment.

Murder = Death Penalty, can't get more severe than that.
Punching a gay man in the face for being gay = prison

84 albusteve  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:19:21pm

re: #67 Mosh

Idea: Some want a constitutional amendment banning flag burning, lets ban cross burning!

I'd like to see the Philly Eagle be outlawed

85 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:19:33pm

re: #35 Racer X

I am a victim of a hate crime. The government hates the fact that I have money and they want to take it from me.

I don't have money and one of my credit lines just got reduced. Something needs to break for me soon or I'll be Chapter 7.

86 tradewind  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:19:55pm

re: #47 jamesfirecat
I could imagine, but that's not the point... and that's a very disingenuous rhetorical question, btw.
People who are not gay or black or_____ ( fill in condition of choice) are also targeted and killed in horrendous ways by angry mobs or individuals.

87 SpaceJesus  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:20:00pm

re: #78 Cato the Elder

glenn beck might fall into the disability category of the defintion

88 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:20:19pm

re: #81 Irenicum

Mandy, can I just say thank you for being you!

Oh, goodness gracious. Thank you for that, Irenicum! I got a grin bigger than the Milky Way on my face. Thank you.

89 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:21:01pm

re: #85 Dark_Falcon

I feel like I spend half my time these days crossing my fingers for my friends to make it through this patch. I know so many good people out of work. Everyone's helping each other out, but there's only so much in the reserves.

90 brookly red  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:21:06pm

re: #73 jamesfirecat

Hate isn't illegal.

A crime is.

If hate is part of the reason you committed the crime, if your hatred for a particular group is part of why you premeditated the crime, then you should be punished more Severely then if it was a crime of passion.

I shoot you in the head cause I want you money... death.
I shoot you in the head cause I don't like your _____ ...death.

with all due respect, <
fuck you don't tell me how to think.

91 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:21:09pm

re: #56 Mosh

Obviously he was.

I'm just trying to disprove Tradewind's idea that we need a mind reading machine to know what people are thinking.

Sometimes evidence gives us a pretty clear picture, of what drove their actions...

92 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:21:10pm

re: #85 Dark_Falcon

I don't have money and one of my credit lines just got reduced. Something needs to break for me soon or I'll be Chapter 7.

Good luck my friend. We're all feeling the pinch.

93 albusteve  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:21:12pm

arguments in favor of 'hate crimes' border on the hilarious...this is where you intellects can really shine!...bring it on Einsteins!

94 Ojoe  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:21:19pm

re: #31 Obdicut

There have been gnostics who have been considered as common enemies of mankind by pagan and christian alike in the very early days but those days are long gone.

Catharists, Manichees ...

They're pretty much gone, I suppose & their ideas were a dead end.

But now we have to be more civilized.

95 What, me worry?  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:21:20pm

re: #63 brookly red

can is not a crime in what I consider America...

your car CAN lead to killing people... I as a pedestrian object to your driving, & stop taunting me btw, I think it is a sign of your hate for those who walk.

I didn't phrase that as well as I wanted to.

Say a group of teens paints a swastika on a synagogue, an obvious sign of racism. I believe they should get a stricter sentencing than maybe another vandal who wrote their name on a wall. Something to deter them from making such a statement because each time they're given a pass, they get bolder.

96 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:21:46pm

What if a Unitarian kook-brigade comes and burns a giant question mark on my lawn because they can't stand Catholic dogma? Should that be punished as a hate crime?

97 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:22:00pm

re: #69 MandyManners

What about "class"?

Notice my next quote, I realized what a stupid question that was. There's no "delete button" though...

98 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:22:01pm

re: #75 MandyManners

So, it's okay to trash folks based on their socio-economic class?

Have you not heard? Demonizing "elites" is all the rage now-a-days.

99 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:22:21pm

re: #90 brookly red

I shoot you in the head cause I want you money... death.
I shoot you in the head cause I don't like your ___ ...death.

with all due respect, <
fuck you don't tell me how to think.

Brookly, you just became my personal hero! :)

100 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:22:47pm

Will someone please tell me where Christ Himself told us to kill sinners?

101 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:22:58pm

re: #97 jamesfirecat

Notice my next quote, I realized what a stupid question that was. There's no "delete button" though...

So do you deny that there is class warfare in America?

102 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:23:01pm

re: #75 MandyManners

So, it's okay to trash folks based on their socio-economic class?

Not it isn't, because it's right there in the hate crimes bill, that's why I realized that my original statement was so stupid.

103 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:23:19pm

re: #96 Cato the Elder

What if a Unitarian kook-brigade comes and burns a giant question mark on my lawn because they can't stand Catholic dogma? Should that be punished as a hate crime?

*fallling on the floor laughing*

104 albusteve  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:23:43pm

re: #92 Mosh

Good luck my friend. We're all feeling the pinch.

BO has rescued the economy...it was months ago, get with it!...and many people here seem to agree that we've turned the Corner!, and they like the way the BO admin is handling the economy...

105 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:23:47pm

re: #92 Mosh

Good luck my friend. We're all feeling the pinch.

Yeah. I have multiple bills due at the same time and less credit to use. Just plain sucks. The bills will still get paid, but all my 'fun money' from my tax refund is gone. Bills will eat it all.

106 What, me worry?  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:23:53pm

re: #80 reine.de.tout

It is indeed insidious.
But I don't know how it's possible to punish a person more than executing him.

Well I don't believe in execution... so the rest of that is a whole other subject! I would have been ok to keep him in prison for life. I'm also not going to mourn his demise.

I don't know. I think there are cases which are very clearly motivated by racism which makes it worse, but also a lot of gray areas, or at least ways for people to try to abuse it.

107 brookly red  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:24:09pm

re: #78 Cato the Elder

I admit to having mixed feelings about "hate crimes".

I hate idiots - as most of you know - with the same passion some reserve for people of a different race or religion or sexual preference.

What if I kill an idiot by mocking him to death with my rapier wit? What if Glenn Beck dies after reading one of my posts? Should that be punished more harshly than if I just shoot him without teasing him first?

/you have been trying to do such things for a while now... your rapier wit is now legal to carry in all 57, err I mean 50 states... it has been rated almost as effective as pepper spray.

108 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:24:24pm

re: #82 MandyManners

WooHoo!


[Video]

Everyone's doin' it.

109 albusteve  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:24:26pm

re: #96 Cato the Elder

What if a Unitarian kook-brigade comes and burns a giant question mark on my lawn because they can't stand Catholic dogma? Should that be punished as a hate crime?

oh brother...too much...hahaha!

110 tradewind  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:24:27pm

re: #36 Cato the Elder
I share the good grief sentiment there , but at the same time ... see? There will be less frivolous uses of the same argument. This two-tiered system is too weird to be workable, IMO.

111 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:24:33pm

re: #97 jamesfirecat

Notice my next quote, I realized what a stupid question that was. There's no "delete button" though...

You might want to check out my No. 75.

112 reine.de.tout  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:24:34pm

re: #95 marjoriemoon

I didn't phrase that as well as I wanted to.

Say a group of teens paints a swastika on a synagogue, an obvious sign of racism. I believe they should get a stricter sentencing than maybe another vandal who wrote their name on a wall. Something to deter them from making such a statement because each time they're given a pass, they get bolder.

I have mixed feelings about "hate crime" laws.

As I've watched them be applied to various situations, they are being applied in a way that I think makes good sense, and that was a concern of mine.

What you say here, though, I agree with - people should be given the message that the sorts of things you mentioned will not be tolerated.

Now for some silliness:
If SpaceJesus shows up and disses the South - is that a hate crime?

113 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:24:36pm

re: #83 Mosh

We are all equal under the law. Read the 14th Amendment.

Murder = Death Penalty, can't get more severe than that.
Punching a gay man in the face for being gay = prison

A person is equally dead either way and yet our court makes distinctions between manslaughter and murder one, or do you not agree with that policy?

114 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:24:48pm

re: #9 Mosh

But do hate crimes laws violate the 14th amendment?

We all have to have the law equally applied to us. Killing a gay person has the same penalty as killing a straight person.

We do, however, acknowledge other various factors that change sentencing.

115 Irenicum  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:25:15pm

re: #96 Cato the Elder

OK Cato, that deserves an upding. I have this fantastic visual in my head right now!

116 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:25:21pm

Cynically, I wonder if federal hate crime laws might be in place as a stop-gap measure to take up the slack in cases where, by virtue of race/religion/whatever, the victim's life isn't worth a plug nickel to any jury in certain communities (c.f. Emmet Till, etc).

117 keloyd  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:25:27pm

re: #18 Cato the Elder

As did the "reformers". Or does John Calvin get a pass from you?
Don't answer that. We know that texts have no determinate meaning.


As a Calvinist who has shown up to lots of Catholic services, I'm going to walk out on some thin ice and give passes to both John Calvin and Thomas More.
1. Calvinist Presbyterians like me don't believe all of Calvin's theological whargarbl anymore. Back in the day, we were the Wahabis of Christendom. Today, you just need to have a sense that the Almighty has you on double secret probation, especially if you don't work hard enough, and that your home/church/car/clothes shouldn't be too much about showing off. We also don't like crucifixes for reasons no one remembers.
2. St. Thomas More himself has no relationship whatsoever to the agenda of this hard-right group, except that they are also lawyers.

118 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:25:42pm

re: #113 jamesfirecat

Intention to kill is different from reason to kill.

119 Ojoe  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:25:43pm

re: #85 Dark_Falcon

You might be able to get free food at a food bank.

I just got a job (whew!) driving a truck for one.

Business there is up.

120 albusteve  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:25:48pm

re: #95 marjoriemoon

I didn't phrase that as well as I wanted to.

Say a group of teens paints a swastika on a synagogue, an obvious sign of racism. I believe they should get a stricter sentencing than maybe another vandal who wrote their name on a wall. Something to deter them from making such a statement because each time they're given a pass, they get bolder.

why not sentence all vandals to a maximum sentence?

121 reine.de.tout  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:25:54pm

re: #106 marjoriemoon

Well I don't believe in execution... so the rest of that is a whole other subject! I would have been ok to keep him in prison for life. I'm also not going to mourn his demise.

I don't know. I think there are cases which are very clearly motivated by racism which makes it worse, but also a lot of gray areas, or at least ways for people to try to abuse it.

I'm not in favor of death penalty either - but honestly, in that particular situation, it would have been difficult to punish him more severely than he was punished.

But see also:
re: #112 reine.de.tout

122 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:25:56pm

re: #86 tradewind

I could imagine, but that's not the point... and that's a very disingenuous rhetorical question, btw.
People who are not gay or black or___ ( fill in condition of choice) are also targeted and killed in horrendous ways by angry mobs or individuals.

Its about making the punishment fit the crime. Should we not punish those more harshly who can be proven to have been trying to act so that it wasn't just about killing/harming but instead spreading fear through an entire community?

123 brookly red  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:26:11pm

re: #95 marjoriemoon

I didn't phrase that as well as I wanted to.

Say a group of teens paints a swastika on a synagogue, an obvious sign of racism. I believe they should get a stricter sentencing than maybe another vandal who wrote their name on a wall. Something to deter them from making such a statement because each time they're given a pass, they get bolder.

say a group of angels dance on a pin head, sheesh. crime is crime I say give the max in every case & be done with it

124 Ojoe  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:26:45pm

re: #112 reine.de.tout

IIRC San Francisco Zionist had some good comments on why hate crime laws are a good idea.

125 What, me worry?  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:26:53pm

re: #112 reine.de.tout

I have mixed feelings about "hate crime" laws.

As I've watched them be applied to various situations, they are being applied in a way that I think makes good sense, and that was a concern of mine.

What you say here, though, I agree with - people should be given the message that the sorts of things you mentioned will not be tolerated.

Now for some silliness:
If SpaceJesus shows up and disses the South - is that a hate crime?

Only if he hits you over the head with a pot of black eyed peas.

126 brookly red  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:27:05pm

re: #99 Mosh

Brookly, you just became my personal hero! :)

damn shame that it is getting so easy to do.

127 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:27:20pm

re: #90 brookly red

I shoot you in the head cause I want you money... death.
I shoot you in the head cause I don't like your ___ ...death.

with all due respect, <
fuck you don't tell me how to think.

Well yes, if we punish every crime with the same penalty that does level playing field wonderfully doesn't it!

128 webevintage  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:28:06pm

I though that the main reason for hate crime laws is that it gives federal prosecutors a tool to go after folks who commit a crime against someone because they are Jewish or Gay or black or whatever and the local authorities either refuse to press charges for bigoted reasons or a jury thinks that gays deserve what they get and let a murderer go free.

129 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:28:12pm

re: #119 Ojoe

You might be able to get free food at a food bank.

I just got a job (whew!) driving a truck for one.

Business there is up.

I'm not going to go hungry. My parents will feed me, if nothing else. I'm just going to have to take very close look into how the get out of debt. Hopefully, that can be done without me losing my home.

130 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:28:13pm

re: #98 Slumbering Behemoth

Have you not heard? Demonizing "elites" is all the rage now-a-days.

Only if the initials "BHO" do not appear anywhere in that demonization.

Never mind Punahou School, Occidental, Columbia and Harvard.

131 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:28:21pm

re: #101 Mosh

So do you deny that there is class warfare in America?

No.

Do I feel that the government taxing the rich more than the poor qualifies, again, no....

132 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:28:23pm

re: #113 jamesfirecat

A person is equally dead either way and yet our court makes distinctions between manslaughter and murder one, or do you not agree with that policy?

Well, there's an argument against extra-special hate-crimes laws right there. The law already distinguishes between knocking a fellow dead in a drunken brawl and planning with malice aforethought to shoot him dead three days later because he made fun of your girlfriend's fake tits.

So, what? Murder one + plus hate against a specific group = Murder A-One-Doubleplusungood?

133 reine.de.tout  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:28:25pm

re: #124 Ojoe

IIRC San Francisco Zionist had some good comments on why hate crime laws are a good idea.

Yes, and so has Iceweasel.
And the concerns I had about them have not been borne out - as I watch them be applied, they seem to be being applied for good cause and with good sense.

134 Ojoe  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:29:01pm

re: #122 jamesfirecat

Well and not only spreading fear but inciting others to commit similar crimes also.

135 albusteve  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:29:16pm

re: #122 jamesfirecat

Its about making the punishment fit the crime. Should we not punish those more harshly who can be proven to have been trying to act so that it wasn't just about killing/harming but instead spreading fear through an entire community?

no...you are not getting it...you keep asking all these questions but the answers are not acceptable so you ask more questions...boring

136 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:29:21pm

re: #57 albusteve

why do the feds hate the citizens?...why do the take what's ours and spend it according to their own whims?...OMG...good grief!...talking point!...Tea Party!...Ron Paul!...LGF!

Whether you like hate crimes legislation or not, it seems fairly tacky to go from talking about violent crimes to bitching and moaning about your taxes.

137 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:29:25pm

re: #114 SanFranciscoZionist

We do, however, acknowledge other various factors that change sentencing.

True, but not race, ethnicity, religion, or sexual orientation. That would violate the 14 Amendment and elevate the life of one person over another. To me, that is not justice.

138 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:29:31pm

re: #108 Slumbering Behemoth

Everyone's doin' it.

Krokus is best! (Over Motorhead and Aerosmith.)

139 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:29:35pm

re: #123 brookly red

say a group of angels dance on a pin head, sheesh. crime is crime I say give the max in every case & be done with it

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that it's probably a pretty good idea that the penalty for driving 45 in a 30 zone is somewhat different from the penalty for killing several of your neighbors and eating all the parts of the corpses you didn't keep around to have sex with.

140 tradewind  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:29:35pm

re: #96 Cato the Elder
ROFLMAO.
(Sorry, but sometimes an over-used, worn-out acronym is just the perfect expression of what I want to say).

141 brookly red  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:30:09pm

re: #112 reine.de.tout


Now for some silliness:
If SpaceJesus shows up and disses the South - is that a hate crime?

no that is a campaign platform...

142 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:30:18pm

re: #71 Cannadian Club Akbar

That's why I'm gonna bail and drink my beer.:)

I may be out of here fairly quickly.

143 tradewind  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:30:27pm

re: #112 reine.de.tout
Nah, ignorance is not a crime...
Unless it's ignorance of the law, in which case it is no excuse.

144 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:30:30pm

re: #129 Dark_Falcon

I'm not going to go hungry. My parents will feed me, if nothing else. I'm just going to have to take very close look into how the get out of debt. Hopefully, that can be done without me losing my home.

No joke, those kinds of stories break my heart. I'll say a prayer for you, whatever that means to you.

145 What, me worry?  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:30:30pm

re: #123 brookly red

say a group of angels dance on a pin head, sheesh. crime is crime I say give the max in every case & be done with it

Doesn't work that way in the real world unfortunately, especially if you're in a neighborhood that has tense race relations and the "law" is representing one side over the other.

146 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:30:34pm

re: #119 Ojoe

Nice going, Ojoe. I am indebted to the folks that run and donate to food banks. Local food banks saved my ass back in the day.

147 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:30:44pm

re: #142 SanFranciscoZionist

Me too!

148 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:30:46pm

re: #75 MandyManners

So, it's okay to trash folks based on their socio-economic class?

Reread. It's not.

149 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:30:54pm

re: #118 Mosh

Intention to kill is different from reason to kill.

What about between murder one and murder two? Do you support that difference?

150 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:31:05pm

re: #118 Mosh

Intention to kill is different from reason to kill.

Look. Do yourself a favor and don't get into any kind of discussion that involves an appreciation of the law with James.

151 brookly red  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:31:54pm

re: #139 negativ

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that it's probably a pretty good idea that the penalty for driving 45 in a 30 zone is somewhat different from the penalty for killing several of your neighbors and eating all the parts of the corpses you didn't keep around to have sex with.

seek help.

152 Ojoe  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:32:06pm

re: #146 Slumbering Behemoth

Food banks & similar might be the nucleus of a new society/way of organizing things, the way it has been going lately.

BBL

153 zora  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:32:49pm

ot: the opening ceremonies are beautiful. the commentator is awful.

154 albusteve  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:32:54pm

re: #136 SanFranciscoZionist

Whether you like hate crimes legislation or not, it seems fairly tacky to go from talking about violent crimes to bitching and moaning about your taxes.

I'm a tacky guy, riffing on someone elses post...I have no style and I like it that way...you ding dong popularity hounds are good entertainment for me tho...talk about tacky, look around you

155 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:32:56pm

re: #135 albusteve

no...you are not getting it...you keep asking all these questions but the answers are not acceptable so you ask more questions...boring

Yes how dare I try to learn by asking others to explain their positions, I must have picked up that habit at this horribly liberal college I'm going to!

156 tradewind  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:33:09pm

re: #139 negativ
That's not the subject of the discussion. We're not arguing that different crimes don't deserve different punishments... only that identical criminal acts merit identical punishments.

157 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:34:12pm

As far as I can tell, under the Constitution it is my right to hate the living tar out of anyone for any reason. When I act on that hate in a way that affects someone in a demonstrably negative way, though, there seem to be laws to cover any harm I may do.

If I hate Jews or Catholics or gays, the law says I still may not steal from them, punch them out, kill their pets or piss in their gas tanks.

At what point does a hate-crimes statute grade into punishing me for just being an imbecilic hater?

There is the danger that it becomes thought control.

158 tradewind  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:34:24pm

re: #114 SanFranciscoZionist
Yes, that's where the term ' aggravated' and ' especially aggravated' come into play.

159 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:34:29pm

re: #112 reine.de.tout

I have mixed feelings about "hate crime" laws.

As I've watched them be applied to various situations, they are being applied in a way that I think makes good sense, and that was a concern of mine.

What you say here, though, I agree with - people should be given the message that the sorts of things you mentioned will not be tolerated.

Now for some silliness:
If SpaceJesus shows up and disses the South - is that a hate crime?

No. That's protected, although annoying, speech.

If SpaceJesus attacks or kills someone because they are a Southerner, that could be prosecuted as a hate crime.

160 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:34:36pm

re: #155 jamesfirecat

Yes how dare I try to learn by asking others to explain their positions, I must have picked up that habit at this horribly liberal college I'm going to!

This coming from someone who tried to argue Dialectical Materialism without having ever read Karl Marx?

161 albusteve  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:34:38pm

re: #149 jamesfirecat

What about between murder one and murder two? Do you support that difference?

maybe...are you gaining knowledge and wisdom here?

162 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:34:55pm

The law recognizes intent. If I cause a fatal car wreck because I'm driving like an idiot, the law is going to recognize that the situation is not the same as if I had pulled the person out of their car and shot them in the face. It makes sense to me that a person who victimizes someone else solely because of who they are is a different breed of person than the thug who robs a liquor store. Both are reprehensible, but one is arguably more dangerous.

163 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:34:59pm

re: #130 MandyManners

Only if the initials "BHO" do not appear anywhere in that demonization.

I have it on good authority that that is exactly the circumstance one should be demonizing "elites".

164 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:35:00pm

re: #150 MandyManners

re: #149 jamesfirecat

I can take on a 21 year old law school kid. :P

I support the distinction between planned murder and spontaneous yes. I do not support giving varying penalties based on someone's race, ethnicity, or whatever. The law is the law. We all live under it.

The US is not an apartheid kingdom like Saudi Arabia where killing an "infidel" is a lesser crime than killing a Muslim.

165 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:35:34pm

re: #4 Ojoe

"Love one another."

Who said that?

They did:

Youtube Video
166 tradewind  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:35:44pm

re: #153 zora
Yep.

167 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:35:47pm

re: #137 Mosh

True, but not race, ethnicity, religion, or sexual orientation. That would violate the 14 Amendment and elevate the life of one person over another. To me, that is not justice.

If a person can commit a hate crime against a Caucasianjust as easily as against an African American , if they can commit one against a heterosexual just as easily as against a homosexual, against a Jew or Muslim just as easily as against a Christian, how does this elevate one over the other?

168 webevintage  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:36:12pm

If you were stoned and watching the opening ceremonies right now you would be all "DUUUDDDDE"....

169 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:36:20pm

re: #163 Slumbering Behemoth

I have it on good authority that that is exactly the circumstance one should be demonizing "elites".

I don't "do" Palin.

170 reine.de.tout  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:36:24pm

re: #159 SanFranciscoZionist

No. That's protected, although annoying, speech.

If SpaceJesus attacks or kills someone because they are a Southerner, that could be prosecuted as a hate crime.

Oh, I knew that! Thus the "silliness" label.

171 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:36:29pm

Who the Hell came up with idea for the Olympics tonight to have the Native Americans dancing around with hula hoops on?
Are you serious? So Ok everybody knew it was going to go bad when they got tangled up on Live TV....That was funny.. But who came up with the hula hoops routine? Fire that dude..
If I was an America Indian tonight I'd be trying to figure a way to go all Avatar on Canada tonight...
You don't put dancing Indians on stage with hula hoops on to celebrate your diversity during the Olympics... Who the hell hires these idiots?

172 SpaceJesus  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:36:29pm

re: #141 brookly red

Now for some silliness:
If SpaceJesus shows up and disses the South - is that a hate crime?


no that is a campaign platform...


there are things i could do towards the south that could be considered a hate crime. simply making fun of the south doesn't count as it's freedom of expression of course. because mentally disabled people are a protected class in most states, i suppose i could be charged with a hate crime if i were to force southerners into a library to read books at gunpoint or something.

173 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:37:01pm

re: #164 Mosh

re: #149 jamesfirecat

I can take on a 21 year old law school kid. :P

I support the distinction between planned murder and spontaneous yes. I do not support giving varying penalties based on someone's race, ethnicity, or whatever. The law is the law. We all live under it.

The US is not an apartheid kingdom like Saudi Arabia where killing an "infidel" is a lesser crime than killing a Muslim.

I'm not getting into that debate.

174 albusteve  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:37:07pm

re: #157 Cato the Elder

As far as I can tell, under the Constitution it is my right to hate the living tar out of anyone for any reason. When I act on that hate in a way that affects someone in a demonstrably negative way, though, there seem to be laws to cover any harm I may do.

If I hate Jews or Catholics or gays, the law says I still may not steal from them, punch them out, kill their pets or piss in their gas tanks.

At what point does a hate-crimes statute grade into punishing me for just being an imbecilic hater?

There is the danger that it becomes thought control.

indeed...so, who's on first?

175 tradewind  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:37:20pm

re: #159 SanFranciscoZionist
And that's just freaking silly. Do we include Maryland, or is it the real South?//

176 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:37:34pm

re: #137 Mosh

True, but not race, ethnicity, religion, or sexual orientation. That would violate the 14 Amendment and elevate the life of one person over another. To me, that is not justice.

I would say it does not elevate the life of one person over another, in that any race, religion, orientation, et al may be a basis for a hate crime enhancement.

177 SpaceJesus  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:37:51pm

re: #159 SanFranciscoZionist

No. That's protected, although annoying, speech.

If SpaceJesus attacks or kills someone because they are a Southerner, that could be prosecuted as a hate crime.

I'm not sure on that one. are southerners really a nationality or race?

178 tradewind  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:37:54pm

re: #168 webevintage
Whaddyamean ' IF './/

179 albusteve  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:38:16pm

re: #171 HoosierHoops

Who the Hell came up with idea for the Olympics tonight to have the Native Americans dancing around with hula hoops on?
Are you serious? So Ok everybody knew it was going to go bad when they got tangled up on Live TV...That was funny.. But who came up with the hula hoops routine? Fire that dude..
If I was an America Indian tonight I'd be trying to figure a way to go all Avatar on Canada tonight...
You don't put dancing Indians on stage with hula hoops on to celebrate your diversity during the Olympics... Who the hell hires these idiots?

Indians can't have hoola hoops?...since when?

180 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:38:18pm

re: #167 jamesfirecat

If a person can commit a hate crime against a Caucasianjust as easily as against an African American , if they can commit one against a heterosexual just as easily as against a homosexual, against a Jew or Muslim just as easily as against a Christian, how does this elevate one over the other?

We are talking about the penalty. I hate repeating myself to punks like you. Killing a white warrants the same punishment as killing an African American, a Jewish person, an albino, a lesbian, or whatever.

181 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:38:24pm

re: #164 Mosh

re: #149 jamesfirecat

I can take on a 21 year old law school kid. :P

I support the distinction between planned murder and spontaneous yes. I do not support giving varying penalties based on someone's race, ethnicity, or whatever. The law is the law. We all live under it.

The US is not an apartheid kingdom like Saudi Arabia where killing an "infidel" is a lesser crime than killing a Muslim.

What do you say to the argument that Hate Crimes lets us get people up in front of a federal Jury when a local one might left them off?

182 reine.de.tout  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:38:52pm

re: #176 SanFranciscoZionist

I would say it does not elevate the life of one person over another, in that any race, religion, orientation, et al may be a basis for a hate crime enhancement.

Well, you covered it here:

re: #172 SpaceJesus

there are things i could do towards the south that could be considered a hate crime. simply making fun of the south doesn't count as it's freedom of expression of course. because mentally disabled people are a protected class in most states, i suppose i could be charged with a hate crime if i were to force southerners into a library to read books at gunpoint or something.

183 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:38:58pm

re: #176 SanFranciscoZionist

The problem is that hate crimes are only aimed at minorities not the majority too.

184 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:39:06pm

re: #169 MandyManners

Well, there goes about five fantasies right down the drain. ;)

185 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:39:23pm

re: #144 Mosh

No joke, those kinds of stories break my heart. I'll say a prayer for you, whatever that means to you.

It means a good bit. It helps to know someone cares, even a little.

186 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:39:24pm

re: #180 Mosh

We are talking about the penalty. I hate repeating myself to punks like you. Killing a white warrants the same punishment as killing an African American, a Jewish person, an albino, a lesbian, or whatever.

How does Hate crime elevate one race over another if any race can have a hate crime commited against it?

187 wee fury  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:39:26pm

re: #171 HoosierHoops

Who the Hell came up with idea for the Olympics tonight to have the Native Americans dancing around with hula hoops on?
Are you serious? So Ok everybody knew it was going to go bad when they got tangled up on Live TV...That was funny.. But who came up with the hula hoops routine? Fire that dude..
If I was an America Indian tonight I'd be trying to figure a way to go all Avatar on Canada tonight...
You don't put dancing Indians on stage with hula hoops on to celebrate your diversity during the Olympics... Who the hell hires these idiots?

It is a traditional 'Hoop Dance'.

188 tradewind  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:39:28pm

re: #177 SpaceJesus
There is still disagreement as to whether or not we will recognize the Bubbas.....

189 brookly red  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:39:31pm

re: #172 SpaceJesus

there are things i could do towards the south that could be considered a hate crime. simply making fun of the south doesn't count as it's freedom of expression of course. because mentally disabled people are a protected class in most states, i suppose i could be charged with a hate crime if i were to force southerners into a library to read books at gunpoint or something.

liberals are always the most tolerant... seek help.

190 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:39:41pm

re: #154 albusteve

I'm a tacky guy, riffing on someone elses post...I have no style and I like it that way...you ding dong popularity hounds are good entertainment for me tho...talk about tacky, look around you

I will say that I was speaking to everyone who had done so, and merely hanging my response off your post.

"Ding dong popularity hounds" sounds like the name of a 1920s booster club.

191 keloyd  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:40:02pm

re: #55 Obdicut

But it doesn't. A burning cross means something different. It has historical context.

So do we treat the burning of a cross any different?

It clearly has more meaning than a random fire. In this case, is it already illegal to leave a clearly written note threatening to commit murder, vandalism, and general mayhem? The burning cross is comparable to a fire + a note stating your future intent. Still, there is no need whatsoever to add 'hate crimes' to the legal system to make burning crosses a punishable offense. It is too open to abuse when we move away from the already distant goal of equal treatment under the law.

Still, this article has the worst reasoning I have ever seen against hate crimes legislation. I agree with its results by almost complete coincidence.

192 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:40:08pm

re: #183 Mosh

The problem is that hate crimes are only aimed at minorities not the majority too.

Try again

[Link: www.angelfire.com...]

193 webevintage  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:40:15pm

re: #178 tradewind

Whaddyamean ' IF './/

I was just channel surfing and hit it right when the whales whatevers were going across the screen and for just a minute I thought "WTF? How did they get killer whales to do that?"....
sheesh

194 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:40:18pm

re: #168 webevintage

If you were stoned and watching the opening ceremonies right now you would be all "DUUUDDDE"...

I'm that way many times each day raising my son.

195 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:40:32pm

re: #179 albusteve

Indians can't have hoola hoops?...since when?

Top 5 dumbest ever thing I've ever seen...

196 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:40:39pm

re: #181 jamesfirecat

What do you say to the argument that Hate Crimes lets us get people up in front of a federal Jury when a local one might left them off?

James, whenever you cannot address or counter my argument you just ask a new question. Grow up!

197 reine.de.tout  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:40:41pm

re: #182 reine.de.tout

OOPS.
That was meant for:

re: #177 SpaceJesus

I'm not sure on that one. are southerners really a nationality or race?

You covered that here:

re: #172 SpaceJesus

. . . simply making fun of the south doesn't count as it's freedom of expression of course. because mentally disabled people are a protected class in most states, i suppose i could be charged with a hate crime if i were to force southerners into a library to read books at gunpoint or something.

198 brookly red  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:41:00pm

re: #186 jamesfirecat

How does Hate crime elevate one race over another if any race can have a hate crime commited against it?

why stop at race? age, gender, faith, hight, weight whatever...

199 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:41:08pm

re: #160 MandyManners

This coming from someone who tried to argue Dialectical Materialism without having ever read Karl Marx?

"I read the comic book version."

Name that reference!

200 Silvergirl  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:41:08pm

re: #180 Mosh

We are talking about the penalty. I hate repeating myself to punks like you. Killing a white warrants the same punishment as killing an African American, a Jewish person, an albino, a lesbian, or whatever.

Saying that you hate repeating yourself would have made your point just as well. Sweet and succinct. No need for the rest of the sentence, really.

201 SpaceJesus  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:41:09pm

re: #189 brookly red

because im being completely serious right now

202 What, me worry?  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:41:15pm

re: #179 albusteve

Indians can't have hoola hoops?...since when?

You don't remember the fabled Hoola Hoopa tribe? Yeesh.

203 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:41:36pm

re: #196 Mosh

James, whenever you cannot address or counter my argument you just ask a new question. Grow up!

Mosh, he *is* young. Be kind yet firm?

204 Jimmah  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:41:39pm

My thinking on this has changed over the years. I used to think, like a lot of people here do now, that a crime is a crime, and that whether it was motivated by hate or something else, like greed, shouldn't come into it. But I've come to realise that a hate crime is a bigger crime. Hate crimes are those intended not just to harm an individual, but to intimidate or terrorise the group of people to whom they belong. They are acts of terrorism, and deserve more severe punishments than crimes that are directed solely at an individual.

205 Racer X  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:41:54pm

re: #157 Cato the Elder

As far as I can tell, under the Constitution it is my right to hate the living tar out of anyone for any reason. When I act on that hate in a way that affects someone in a demonstrably negative way, though, there seem to be laws to cover any harm I may do.

If I hate Jews or Catholics or gays, the law says I still may not steal from them, punch them out, kill their pets or piss in their gas tanks.

At what point does a hate-crimes statute grade into punishing me for just being an imbecilic hater?

There is the danger that it becomes thought control.

I hate being compelled to upding your comments.

206 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:42:07pm

I have to say, this thread is quite civil so far given the incendiary and doubtful nature of the debate as framed by the extremists on both sides.

207 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:42:15pm

re: #199 SanFranciscoZionist

"I read the comic book version."

Name that reference!

I don't know.

208 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:42:22pm

re: #192 jamesfirecat

Try again

[Link: www.angelfire.com...]

Then its not a hate crime law. Forensics people can always just say "hey, he's white. we've got our motivation".

209 SpaceJesus  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:42:42pm

re: #198 brookly red

why stop at race? age, gender, faith, hight, weight whatever...


most of those things are already protected

210 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:42:50pm

re: #179 albusteve

Indians can't have hoola hoops?...since when?

The "Pass-times and Novelties Entertainment Protection Act" of 1902. Google it.

211 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:42:55pm

re: #164 Mosh

re:
The US is not an apartheid kingdom like Saudi Arabia where killing an "infidel" is a lesser crime than killing a Muslim.

Repeat, and this is an important distinction, it's the intent of the crime, not the status of the victim, that's in question here. You can disagree with the concept, but the idea that hate crimes enhancements don't protect all citizens equally is incorrect.

212 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:43:13pm

re: #200 Silvergirl

Saying that you hate repeating yourself would have made your point just as well. Sweet and succinct. No need for the rest of the sentence, really.

I know, but the kid just doesn't listen.

213 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:43:18pm

re: #196 Mosh

James, whenever you cannot address or counter my argument you just ask a new question. Grow up!

You promote the death penalty for every example of murder one from what i understand.

That makes one aspect of hate crimes bill uneeded for you but do please be aware that not everyone is as ready to go for the death penalty in every case as you are.

Nor is that the only advantage of Hate Crimes laws...

214 brookly red  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:43:59pm

re: #201 SpaceJesus

because im being completely serious right now

yes, I do realize that you seriously have issues with southerners. it's is ok, I am completely serious too.

215 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:44:36pm

re: #177 SpaceJesus

I'm not sure on that one. are southerners really a nationality or race?

Being a Southern is more a state of mind than a state of being, from what little I have observed.

216 SpaceJesus  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:44:36pm

re: #204 Jimmah

My thinking on this has changed over the years. I used to think, like a lot of people here do now, that a crime is a crime, and that whether it was motivated by hate or something else, like greed, shouldn't come into it. But I've come to realise that a hate crime is a bigger crime. Hate crimes are those intended not just to harm an individual, but to intimidate or terrorise the group of people to whom they belong. They are acts of terrorism, and deserve more severe punishments than crimes that are directed solely at an individual.

plus these kinds of crimes are the kinds of crimes that induce retaliation from the group that was attacked, thus leading to more crime through continued back-and-forth retaliation.

217 What, me worry?  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:44:43pm

re: #204 Jimmah

My thinking on this has changed over the years. I used to think, like a lot of people here do now, that a crime is a crime, and that whether it was motivated by hate or something else, like greed, shouldn't come into it. But I've come to realise that a hate crime is a bigger crime. Hate crimes are those intended not just to harm an individual, but to intimidate or terrorise the group of people to whom they belong. They are acts of terrorism, and deserve more severe punishments than crimes that are directed solely at an individual.

Well said. There's a whole other level of intimidation and humiliation of others.

218 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:44:52pm

re: #205 Racer X

I hate being compelled to upding your comments.

But you're not talking about coming over and harming me or my dog.

If one of the loons who has done that were to get past my defenses, I really can't say I would be happier getting double indemnity just because some Rodan or rodent or other hates crotchety old Romans with polysyllabic vocabularies.

219 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:45:13pm

re: #208 Mosh

Then its not a hate crime law. Forensics people can always just say "hey, he's white. we've got our motivation".

Hate crimes only matter when you can prove that the person was specifically targeting the group whose member they attacked/killed.

There are people who can aim to specifically kill us whites just as there are those who go after blacks or gays...

There will probably be hate crimes committed against us "breeders" before long as well if there haven't been all ready.

220 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:45:32pm

re: #180 Mosh

We are talking about the penalty. I hate repeating myself to punks like you. Killing a white warrants the same punishment as killing an African American, a Jewish person, an albino, a lesbian, or whatever.

He may be a punk (I ain't seen his hair) but he is correct. Hate crime enhancements don't apply to specific groups.

221 SpaceJesus  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:45:44pm

re: #214 brookly red

yes, I do realize that you seriously have issues with southerners. it's is ok, I am completely serious too.


you're completely something i guess

222 lawhawk  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:45:51pm

What is it with the 9/11 conspiracy talk and the Texas governor's race? Seems that a Democrat, Farouk Shami didn't think that Medina went far enough off the rails. Shami is currently trailing White in the Democrat side.

Earlier today, Shami taped an interview that will air Sunday on WFAA's Inside Texas Politics. The first-time candidate talked about why he hires mostly Hispanics and blacks to work in his factories.

"I find 80 percent of my employees at the factory are Hispanics," Shami said. "I don't find, you know, many white people really willing to work, you know, unfortunately."

He added that white workers want to be supervisors and expect to be paid more. Then, when a second interviewer asked Shami about Medina's comments regarding 9/11 conspiracy theories, he, too, declined to disavow suggestions that the U.S. government might have been involved in the attacks.

"Would we ever find the truth about 9/11? That's a very dangerous subject to get into," Shami said. "You know so it's hard to make judgment. I'm not saying yes or no, because I don't know the truth."

Shami's campaign has subsequently sent a statement of clarification, emphasizing that he does not know whether 9/11 was an inside job. Glad we cleared that up.

Does not know whether 9/11 was in inside job? Are you frakking kidding me?

223 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:45:51pm

re: #213 jamesfirecat

Nor is that the only advantage of Hate Crimes laws...

The others being...?

224 reine.de.tout  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:46:02pm

Charles, please delete my 182, response was made to the wrong person, I'm afraid of causing mass confusion leading to ongoing and boring explanations.

225 tradewind  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:46:04pm

re: #206 Cato the Elder
I've deleted three or four after some thought....

226 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:46:45pm

re: #183 Mosh

The problem is that hate crimes are only aimed at minorities not the majority too.

How so? No one has ever beaten someone up for being white on the wrong street?

(I have never heard of a credible case of straight-bashing that went beyond mockery of haircut, but it could happen.)

227 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:46:49pm

re: #206 Cato the Elder

I have to say, this thread is quite civil so far given the incendiary and doubtful nature of the debate as framed by the extremists on both sides.

Yes, its a good thread.

228 albusteve  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:46:51pm

re: #204 Jimmah

My thinking on this has changed over the years. I used to think, like a lot of people here do now, that a crime is a crime, and that whether it was motivated by hate or something else, like greed, shouldn't come into it. But I've come to realise that a hate crime is a bigger crime. Hate crimes are those intended not just to harm an individual, but to intimidate or terrorise the group of people to whom they belong. They are acts of terrorism, and deserve more severe punishments than crimes that are directed solely at an individual.

oooh...you've evolved to a higher life form of morality than the rest of us....how cool is that?

229 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:47:01pm

re: #203 MandyManners

Mosh, he *is* young. Be kind yet firm?

I'm sorry that the kid went to law school and thought he was some kind of an Ivory Tower intellectual.

230 Jimmah  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:47:28pm

re: #46 marjoriemoon

So swastikas on a synagogue or a burning cross on a Black family's lawn is just vandalism?

Ought to be a top ten comment. Favourited.

231 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:47:31pm

re: #85 Dark_Falcon

I don't have money and one of my credit lines just got reduced. Something needs to break for me soon or I'll be Chapter 7.

Are you on a written monthly budget?

232 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:47:35pm

re: #187 wee fury

It is a traditional 'Hoop Dance'.

Oooooohhh. I was envisioning actual hula hoops.

I like hoop dancing. They had a guy at the Mills College PowWow once who was amazing.

233 jaunte  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:47:44pm

re: #222 lawhawk

Farouk Shami's campaign is a silly, ego-driven waste of money.

234 albusteve  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:47:56pm

re: #206 Cato the Elder

I have to say, this thread is quite civil so far given the incendiary and doubtful nature of the debate as framed by the extremists on both sides.

that's because I'm roasting peanuts and only paying half attention to the doofi

235 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:48:20pm

re: #223 Cato the Elder

The others being...?

The other is it gets people who for example kill gays in small rural places where a jury might let them off light or find them innocent because they believed the defendant had it coming form their "sinful way" up in front of a federal jury which won't be so forgiving...

236 brookly red  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:48:27pm

re: #221 SpaceJesus

you're completely something i guess

right... the the word you are looking for is right.

237 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:48:35pm

re: #218 Cato the Elder

But you're not talking about coming over and harming me or my dog.

If one of the loons who has done that were to get past my defenses, I really can't say I would be happier getting double indemnity just because some Rodan or rodent or other hates crotchety old Romans with polysyllabic vocabularies.

Don't worry about him Cato. They'll harrass, but you could take any of them who might actually try something.

238 reine.de.tout  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:48:40pm

re: #229 Mosh

I'm sorry that the kid went to law school and thought he was some kind of an Ivory Tower intellectual.

I think he's still in school and majoring in some sort of computer stuff.
Notice: his writing does not live up to the standards I would think would be expected of a law student.

239 wee fury  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:49:09pm

re: #232 SanFranciscoZionist

I like it too.

240 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:49:15pm

re: #128 webevintage

I though that the main reason for hate crime laws is that it gives federal prosecutors a tool to go after folks who commit a crime against someone because they are Jewish or Gay or black or whatever and the local authorities either refuse to press charges for bigoted reasons or a jury thinks that gays deserve what they get and let a murderer go free.

Do you think that's happened in the last quarter-century, anywhere in the country?

241 albusteve  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:49:23pm

re: #216 SpaceJesus

plus these kinds of crimes are the kinds of crimes that induce retaliation from the group that was attacked, thus leading to more crime through continued back-and-forth retaliation.

sort of like the Bloods and the Crips...nothing new

242 SpaceJesus  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:49:32pm

re: #238 reine.de.tout


Notice: his writing does not live up to the standards I would think would be expected of a law student.

you'd be surprised

243 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:49:38pm

re: #207 MandyManners

I don't know.



Persepolis. Marjane is talking to her uncle, who says he got a degree in Moscow on Marxist thought.

She says "Dialectical Materialism?" He says, "You know about that?" (She's about ten.)

Marjane says "I read the comic book version."

244 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:49:40pm

re: #229 Mosh

I'm sorry that the kid went to law school and thought he was some kind of an Ivory Tower intellectual.

Went to 'law school" what ever gave you that impression?

I'm a computer science major at a liberal arts college!

245 tradewind  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:49:56pm

re: #222 lawhawk
Okay, here's a hate crime for you...
I freaking hate ' truthers '. Hate it when people try to pin what happened on 9-11 on our own people.

246 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:49:59pm

re: #213 jamesfirecat

You promote the death penalty for every example of murder one from what i understand.

That makes one aspect of hate crimes bill uneeded for you but do please be aware that not everyone is as ready to go for the death penalty in every case as you are.

Nor is that the only advantage of Hate Crimes laws...

Again you strawman me. I never said I supported the death penalty for second degree murder.

247 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:49:59pm

re: #206 Cato the Elder

I have to say, this thread is quite civil so far given the incendiary and doubtful nature of the debate as framed by the extremists on both sides.

The night is young...

248 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:50:11pm

re: #237 Dark_Falcon

All hat and no cattle. They don't have the balls.

249 Jimmah  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:50:33pm

re: #228 albusteve

oooh...you've evolved to a higher life form of morality than the rest of us...how cool is that?

Another powerful piece of argumentation there from albusteve. One of LGF's resident Einsteins BenSteins.

250 SpaceJesus  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:51:04pm

re: #241 albusteve

sort of like the Bloods and the Crips...nothing new


i have a feeling that most ethnicities have a few more members than the bloods and crips and divisions that run much deeper and stronger

251 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:51:08pm

re: #231 The Sanity Inspector

Are you on a written monthly budget?

No. I'm trying to stay within one, but I've got transportation expense that keep coming up. I've been brings them down though. Keeping them down will mean better time discipline in leaving to catch buses. Still a work in progress. Still I can realize a good savings there. Thank you for reminding me.

252 lawhawk  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:51:16pm

re: #245 tradewind

Hate isn't nearly a strong enough word to describe my feelings towards those conspiracy freaks.

253 tradewind  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:51:36pm

re: #229 Mosh
I think we're still dealing with an undergrad, and the LSAT's a ways off.

254 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:51:41pm

re: #244 jamesfirecat

Look. Do yourself a favor and don't get into any kind of discussion that involves an appreciation of the law with James.

It was Mandy's comment in #150.

255 brookly red  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:51:48pm

I gotta do a sham & split now... it's an ROI thing. see y'all later.

256 reine.de.tout  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:51:50pm

re: #242 SpaceJesus

you'd be surprised

No, probably not, remember I'm from (and in) the South.
No reading or libraries for me.
Even at gunpoint.

257 tradewind  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:52:40pm

re: #249 Jimmah
So I guess this means that Ben Stein is, in your estimation, your intellectual inferior?
Heh.

258 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:53:13pm

re: #245 tradewind

Okay, here's a hate crime for you...
I freaking hate ' truthers '. Hate it when people try to pin what happened on 9-11 on our own people.

Its "racial group, religion, sexual orientation, disability, class, ethnicity, nationality, age, gender, gender identity, or political affiliation.[1]"

Racial Group, no...

Religion: Well they believe it in the face of piles of evidence but that don't make a religion till some sky fairy gets invovled.

Sexual Orientation: No.

Disability: Mental possibly....

Class: No...

Ethnicity: No.

Nationality: No.

Age: no.

Gender: No.

Gender Identity: No.

Political Affiliation: Until there's a "truth party" no.


Go right ahead they're not covered.

259 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:53:26pm

re: #239 wee fury

I like it too.

I need to remember to go to the Mills PowWow this spring. It's always a nice event, you can join the dancing for the 'intertribals', and there's a stand that sells frybread tacos.

260 SpaceJesus  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:53:36pm

re: #256 reine.de.tout

I'm from (and in) the South.


im sorry.

261 albusteve  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:53:37pm

re: #249 Jimmah

Another powerful piece of argumentation there from albusteve. One of LGF's resident Einsteins BenSteins.

how did you evolve into this higher order of humanity?....this is what you are telling us...what gives?...I'm not being argumentative, I'm simply calling you out for your obnoxious condensation

262 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:53:59pm

re: #246 Mosh

Again you strawman me. I never said I supported the death penalty for second degree murder.

Sorry, my point still stands and you'd be surprised how few cases of first degree murder get the death penalty these days.


I'd be surprised if Scott Roder gets it...

263 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:54:22pm

re: #229 Mosh

I'm sorry that the kid went to law school and thought he was some kind of an Ivory Tower intellectual.

He is not a law student.

264 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:54:47pm

re: #219 jamesfirecat

Hate crimes only matter when you can prove that the person was specifically targeting the group whose member they attacked/killed.

There are people who can aim to specifically kill us whites just as there are those who go after blacks or gays...

There will probably be hate crimes committed against us "breeders" before long as well if there haven't been all ready.

And that leads into an idea that was proposed by a conservative Maryland legislator. Since we have been saddled with unconstitutional-on-their-face hate crime laws, why not expand them? Especially to groups which truly are at higher risk of daily random violence than the rest of us:

His name is Alex Mooney. He’s a state senator from Western Maryland. He’s a Republican. And he was known for his earlier opposition to expanding the state’s hate-crime law to include sexual orientation. So when he introduced his homeless bill, he says people thought he was trying to dilute the law. But here’s what he told me.
State Senator ALEX MOONEY (Republican, Maryland): My view was since we have hate crimes as part of law, it only makes sense to look at truly vulnerable groups to include, not just to include groups that have clout, you know, in one of the political parties. And it’s my view, you know, as a Christian, that God created us all equal in his image and likeness. And I think homeless people deserve the same protections as other human beings.

Maybe we can make it extra-wrong to hurt anyone, and we'll be back at square one: equal justice under law.

265 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:55:04pm

re: #243 SanFranciscoZionist

Beyond my ken.

266 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:55:06pm

re: #257 tradewind

I have little doubt that Ben Stein is a brainiac genius. However, he the spokesman behind and anti-intellectual movement. Odd, eh?

267 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:55:15pm

re: #254 Mosh

It was Mandy's comment in #150.

That was her way of saying that I'm under informed about maters of law.

But I cost seriously brew your JAVA!

268 tradewind  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:55:32pm

re: #247 The Sanity Inspector
I haven't checked... is the moon yellow?

269 Gus  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:55:33pm

Condensation?

270 SpaceJesus  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:55:34pm

re: #261 albusteve

your obnoxious condensation

eh?

271 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:55:55pm

re: #235 jamesfirecat

The other is it gets people who for example kill gays in small rural places where a jury might let them off light or find them innocent because they believed the defendant had it coming form their "sinful way" up in front of a federal jury which won't be so forgiving...

That is a good point.

272 jaunte  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:55:58pm

re: #269 Gus 802

Consternation?

273 tradewind  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:56:09pm

re: #258 jamesfirecat
Whew. So glad we cleared that up.

274 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:56:12pm

re: #262 jamesfirecat

Sorry, my point still stands and you'd be surprised how few cases of first degree murder get the death penalty these days.

I'd be surprised if Scott Roder gets it...

That's whats wrong with our society.

Here's who should get the death penalty:

- First Degree Murderers
- Rapists
- Child Rapists and Pedophiles (Screw Kennedy v. Louisiana!)
- Anyone who is guilty of treason or espionage (Thank you Woodrow Wilson)

275 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:56:12pm

re: #244 jamesfirecat

Went to 'law school" what ever gave you that impression?

I'm a computer science major at a liberal arts college!

James, you frequently invoke the rule of law.

Remember my advice to you over the past week?

Heed it.

276 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:56:17pm

re: #260 SpaceJesus

You can't get a decent biscuit on the wrong side of the Mason-Dixon line.

277 reine.de.tout  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:56:21pm

re: #272 jaunte

Consternation?

condescension?

278 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:56:23pm

re: #264 The Sanity Inspector

Maybe we can make it extra-wrong to hurt anyone, and we'll be back at square one: equal justice under law.

Aren't homeless people sort of a "class" the very bottom class of course...

279 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:56:28pm

re: #251 Dark_Falcon

No. I'm trying to stay within one, but I've got transportation expense that keep coming up. I've been brings them down though. Keeping them down will mean better time discipline in leaving to catch buses. Still a work in progress. Still I can realize a good savings there. Thank you for reminding me.

Factor those bad boys in, at the highest rate you reasonably expect. Then you'll have extra $$ during those times when they aren't so high. Good luck!

280 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:56:45pm

re: #257 tradewind

So I guess this means that Ben Stein is, in your estimation, your intellectual inferior?
Heh.

It's not a matter of raw brainpower. Ben Stein's problem is his willful stupidity in advocating "Intelligent Design".

281 lawhawk  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:56:47pm

re: #259 SanFranciscoZionist

If you get a chance, get out to the Black Hills Pow Wow. I think they're usually held in October in Rapid City SD. 200 tribes from around the country, and the intertribal dances were absolutely spectacular as well as the honoring those who have served in the US military. It was really a sight to behold...

282 tradewind  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:56:51pm

re: #267 jamesfirecat
Can you put it on my iphone? That would impress me.

283 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:56:53pm

re: #246 Mosh

Again you strawman me. I never said I supported the death penalty for second degree murder.

Mosh, stop arguing.

284 jaunte  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:56:56pm

re: #277 reine.de.tout

condescension?

You southerners, always with the last word.

285 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:57:23pm

re: #268 tradewind

I haven't checked... is the moon yellow?

Overcast here, after two inches of snow.

/ joins the bug-eyed Atlantans panicking in the streets

286 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:57:33pm

re: #283 MandyManners

Mosh, stop arguing.

Oh, what the fuck.

287 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:57:35pm

re: #274 Mosh

That's whats wrong with our society.

Here's who should get the death penalty:

- First Degree Murderers
- Rapists
- Child Rapists and Pedophiles (Screw Kennedy v. Louisiana!)
- Anyone who is guilty of treason or espionage (Thank you Woodrow Wilson)

Quite Concur.

288 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:57:53pm

re: #283 MandyManners

Mosh, stop arguing.

Ok, anything for you Mandy! (blinking my long eyelashes)

289 What, me worry?  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:57:54pm

re: #219 jamesfirecat

Hate crimes only matter when you can prove that the person was specifically targeting the group whose member they attacked/killed.

There are people who can aim to specifically kill us whites just as there are those who go after blacks or gays...

There will probably be hate crimes committed against us "breeders" before long as well if there haven't been all ready.

That actually happened in Miami in the 80s, early 90s. A black supremacist religious cult ran by a guy named Yahweh ben Yahweh. They targeted whites. I believe he was acquitted of an early murder charge. He was in jail for some time, but was released. If hate crime legislation had been used, he may never had been released.

He was charged in the conspiracy (as the ringleader) of 14 racially charged murders.

A ruling on a failed appeal, U.S. v. Yahweh Ben Yahweh (792 F. Supp. 104) starts:

Violent crime cases are the exception in federal courts. The instant case is arguably the most violent case ever tried in a federal court: the indictment charges the sixteen defendants on trial with 14 murders by means such as beheading, stabbing, occasionally by pistol shots, plus severing of body parts such as ears to prove the worthiness of the killer. They were also charged with arson of a slumbering neighborhood using molotov cocktails. The perpetrators were ordered to wait outside the innocent victims' homes wearing ski masks and brandishing machetes to deter the victims from fleeing the flames.

Eventually, tho, he was paroled.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

290 reine.de.tout  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:58:01pm

re: #284 jaunte

You southerners, always with the last word.

heheh.
Southerner yourself.

291 Racer X  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:58:14pm

Must be getting hot in here. The windows are condesating.

292 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:58:18pm
I'm simply calling you out for your obnoxious condensation

Now that I think about it, I too have been meaning to call you out on that, Jimmah. Seeing the way you bead up on the outside of my cold beer can is pretty damn obnoxious.

293 zora  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:58:26pm

re: #266 Killgore Trout

only as odd as him selling comcast, visine, or whatever else. anti-intelluctualism is big business. Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

294 albusteve  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:58:27pm

re: #262 jamesfirecat

Sorry, my point still stands and you'd be surprised how few cases of first degree murder get the death penalty these days.

I'd be surprised if Scott Roder gets it...

so what?...you blather so much I generally scroll past you...yiu have not made a case at all for hate crimes, neither has Jimmah or anyone else here...it's just perpetual questions, or in Jimmahs case, a revelation to a higher order he cannot explain....it's all bullshit, made up for talkers and question askers, and elitists nuancers....there is no such thing as a hate crime...you are all trying to make pizza pie out of horse shit

295 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:58:37pm

re: #275 MandyManners

James, you frequently invoke the rule of law.

Remember my advice to you over the past week?

Heed it.

Hey every time I'm wrong on LGF I take some new piece of knowledgk away from the experience.

You're a tough but fair classroom.

296 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:58:42pm

re: #282 tradewind

Can you put it on my iphone? That would impress me.

Nope, but I've got LGF and a law dictionary on mine.

Hahaha!

297 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:58:53pm

re: #281 lawhawk

If you get a chance, get out to the Black Hills Pow Wow. I think they're usually held in October in Rapid City SD. 200 tribes from around the country, and the intertribal dances were absolutely spectacular as well as the honoring those who have served in the US military. It was really a sight to behold...

I don't know when I would ever be out that way, but it sounds amazing.

They always have dances and honoring stuff for the troops at Mills as well. And did I mention the frybread taco factor?

298 tradewind  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:59:14pm

re: #260 SpaceJesus
You got that right.

299 Jadespring  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:59:47pm

re: #297 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't know when I would ever be out that way, but it sounds amazing.

They always have dances and honoring stuff for the troops at Mills as well. And did I mention the frybread taco factor?

Yum, frybread tacos......

300 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:00:11pm

re: #204 Jimmah

Ooh, good, you're here.

Jimmah, could you please, as a representative of the gude auld UK, tell us whether there is anywhere in the Isles such a thing as a Food Patrol that can demand access to your pantry, ice-box or larder (shudder) and lecture you if the comestibles therein do not meet proper nutritional standards?

Such a claim was made earlier today and I hooted it off the thread. It just sounds so Monty-Pythonesque.

Not that I'd put it past the Nanny State to try such a thing, I just don't think they'd get past the first door of the first terrace house in the first council tract without getting covered in derision and bacon drippings.

301 webevintage  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:00:49pm

re: #240 The Sanity Inspector

Do you think that's happened in the last quarter-century, anywhere in the country?

yes i do.

302 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:01:03pm

re: #269 Gus 802

Condensation?

Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.

Judge Judith Sheindlin

303 tradewind  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:01:17pm

re: #296 Mosh
Oh me too.
And a level, a flashlight, and a paint-color-matching wizard, a real-time flighttracker.... and a partridge in a pear tree....

304 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:01:52pm

re: #300 Cato the Elder

Ooh, good, you're here.

Jimmah, could you please, as a representative of the gude auld UK, tell us whether there is anywhere in the Isles such a thing as a Food Patrol that can demand access to your pantry, ice-box or larder (shudder) and lecture you if the comestibles therein do not meet proper nutritional standards?

Such a claim was made earlier today and I hooted it off the thread. It just sounds so Monty-Pythonesque.

Not that I'd put it past the Nanny State to try such a thing, I just don't think they'd get past the first door of the first terrace house in the first council tract without getting covered in derision and bacon drippings.

Or, invited in, given a cup of tea and a Flake bar, and set down in front of the telly to wait for dinner.

305 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:02:16pm

re: #288 Mosh

Ok, anything for you Mandy! (blinking my long eyelashes)

Uh.

306 lawhawk  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:02:28pm

re: #297 SanFranciscoZionist

I highly recommend it if you get a chance. Rapid City is a gateway to the Black Hills - Mt. Rushmore, Crazy Horse, Custer State Park, Wind Cave, Jewel Cave, Devils Tower, Badlands NP... lots of photo ops. And some of the most scenic country in the US.

307 albusteve  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:02:41pm

re: #297 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't know when I would ever be out that way, but it sounds amazing.

They always have dances and honoring stuff for the troops at Mills as well. And did I mention the frybread taco factor?

here in ABQ we have the Gathering of the Tribes...biggest Indian party in this hemisphere...they come in from all points of the continent, and it's world renown

308 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:02:44pm

re: #303 tradewind

Oh me too.
And a level, a flashlight, and a paint-color-matching wizard, a real-time flighttracker... and a partridge in a pear tree...

I've got several episodes of MST3K on mind.

Ipods everybody loves them!

309 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:02:56pm

re: #308 jamesfirecat

I've got several episodes of MST3K on mind.

Ipods everybody loves them!

On mine!

310 keloyd  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:03:38pm

re: #74 marjoriemoon

What reason would anyone have to drag a disabled man behind their truck to their death? We have degrees of murder depending on intent and each carries a penalty. Why should this be different?

It wasn't as if this man robbed the klansman or harmed a member of his family. He was Black. That was the reason for the murder. I don't understand why people here can't understand the insidiousness of that.

Ah, but all murder of this category are insidious. (Murder 1? Capital Murder? 1st degree? I forget the categories) Jesse Jackson's hypocrisy was showing when we punished the murderer more quickly and more harshly than Jackson would have, but offended Jackson for not using the Left's categorization. No homosexual or black guy or woman is better than me, nor am I better than them.

I support the Death penalty enthusiastically, and am against hate crimes legisltaion with similar enthusiasm.

311 Jadespring  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:03:56pm

re: #306 lawhawk

I highly recommend it if you get a chance. Rapid City is a gateway to the Black Hills - Mt. Rushmore, Crazy Horse, Custer State Park, Wind Cave, Jewel Cave, Devils Tower, Badlands NP... lots of photo ops. And some of the most scenic country in the US.

I had amazing road trip through that whole area. It's beautiful.

312 tradewind  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:04:23pm

re: #280 Dark_Falcon
Nobody's perfect. He's still really witty, and I'd let him manage my finances any day. Thus the snark.

313 Jimmah  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:04:28pm

re: #257 tradewind

So I guess this means that Ben Stein is, in your estimation, your intellectual inferior?
Heh.

Well, I have a better scientific education than Stein. Then again, who doesn't?

Besides, it's well known that smart people are good at defending bullshit for non-smart reasons. However, I have to say that Stein doesn't doesn't appear to be in that category either. Have you ever seen a movie set a lower benchmark of FAIL than Expelled?

314 albusteve  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:04:33pm

re: #306 lawhawk

I highly recommend it if you get a chance. Rapid City is a gateway to the Black Hills - Mt. Rushmore, Crazy Horse, Custer State Park, Wind Cave, Jewel Cave, Devils Tower, Badlands NP... lots of photo ops. And some of the most scenic country in the US.

come to NM...you will not believe your eyes

315 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:04:38pm

re: #295 jamesfirecat

Hey every time I'm wrong on LGF I take some new piece of knowledgk away from the experience.

You're a tough but fair classroom.

I'M NOT LGF.

316 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:04:40pm

re: #304 SanFranciscoZionist

Or, invited in, given a cup of tea and a Flake bar, and set down in front of the telly to wait for dinner.

Delicious, delicious, lard-laden dinner. That'll show 'em.

317 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:04:45pm

re: #303 tradewind

Oh me too.
And a level, a flashlight, and a paint-color-matching wizard, a real-time flighttracker... and a partridge in a pear tree...

And the New York Slimes, a Zippo lighter, and a voice changer.

How nifty!

318 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:05:38pm

re: #310 keloyd

Ah, but all murder of this category are insidious. (Murder 1? Capital Murder? 1st degree? I forget the categories) Jesse Jackson's hypocrisy was showing when we punished the murderer more quickly and more harshly than Jackson would have, but offended Jackson for not using the Left's categorization. No homosexual or black guy or woman is better than me, nor am I better than them.

I support the Death penalty enthusiastically, and am against hate crimes legisltaion with similar enthusiasm.

I will agree with you that in that case there was doubtlessly no need to even bother with a hate crimes charge.

May all juries be so decisive and intelligent.

319 tradewind  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:05:58pm

re: #309 jamesfirecat
S'okay, I have a feeling ' on mind ' works there as well.

320 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:06:25pm

re: #312 tradewind

Nobody's perfect. He's still really witty, and I'd let him manage my finances any day. Thus the snark.

Me too. I may know more about evolution, but Ben Stein knows how to manage money and that's worth a lot.

321 lawhawk  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:06:31pm

re: #311 Jadespring

Most definitely. We did that trip last October - just after an early snow - so we pretty much had all four seasons within the span of 9 days we were out there. Snow to 80 degrees and everything in between - and plenty of spectacular photos. My favorites? Mt. Rushmore at night - in the snow and fog. We had the place to ourselves - no one else was out there...

322 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:06:51pm

Just throwing it out there, I like the Al-Jazeera app on my iPhone!
Had to say it!

323 tradewind  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:07:03pm

re: #315 MandyManners
Mirabile dictu! You're a classroom!
And all this time I thought I was reading stuff from a reel pirsun.

324 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:07:28pm

re: #300 Cato the Elder

Ooh, good, you're here.

Jimmah, could you please, as a representative of the gude auld UK, tell us whether there is anywhere in the Isles such a thing as a Food Patrol that can demand access to your pantry, ice-box or larder (shudder) and lecture you if the comestibles therein do not meet proper nutritional standards?

Such a claim was made earlier today and I hooted it off the thread. It just sounds so Monty-Pythonesque.

Not that I'd put it past the Nanny State to try such a thing, I just don't think they'd get past the first door of the first terrace house in the first council tract without getting covered in derision and bacon drippings.

It occurred to me just now to search Samizdata, the British libertarian blog, and I got nothing.

325 Jadespring  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:08:16pm

re: #321 lawhawk

Most definitely. We did that trip last October - just after an early snow - so we pretty much had all four seasons within the span of 9 days we were out there. Snow to 80 degrees and everything in between - and plenty of spectacular photos. My favorites? Mt. Rushmore at night - in the snow and fog. We had the place to ourselves - no one else was out there...

That would have been beautiful. I think my favorite was the Crazy Horse monument and the Badlands in general. Driving into Deadwood was also pretty cool.

326 lawhawk  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:08:27pm

re: #314 albusteve

That'll have to wait a bit... I have a few more places to hit before NM...

Up next: Yellowstone/Grand Teton via SLC.

327 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:09:04pm

re: #313 Jimmah

Well, I have a better scientific education than Stein. Then again, who doesn't?

Besides, it's well known that smart people are good at defending bullshit for non-smart reasons. However, I have to say that Stein doesn't doesn't appear to be in that category either. Have you ever seen a movie set a lower benchmark of FAIL than Expelled?

Yes, Battlefield Earth was a similar utter failure. So was a Nixon movie called Dick, which was so bad I walked out of the theater only 1/3 of the way in.

328 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:09:17pm

re: #222 lawhawk

What is it with the 9/11 conspiracy talk and the Texas governor's race? Seems that a Democrat, Farouk Shami didn't think that Medina went far enough off the rails. Shami is currently trailing White in the Democrat side.

Does not know whether 9/11 was in inside job? Are you frakking kidding me?

Shami is full-blood loony tunes. I tried but failed to listen to the some of the debate between Farouk Shami and Bill White. Every time Shami opened his mouth, something Fucking Stupid came out. I sort of felt bad for Bill White, even though I'm not necessarily a Bill White supporter. He was trying in all sincerity to make his case, but somehow, being paired with a crazy person made him seem like someone who had been shoved off into Special Ed by mistake.

White seems to be a smart guy and has some good ideas here and there, but it really seemed like he was in a middle school talent show, cursed by luck of the draw to play his solo guitar rendition of "Greensleeves" immediately after a band of meth-tweaking capuchin monkeys performed a musical interpretation of "The Aristocrats".

329 wee fury  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:09:34pm

re: #325 Jadespring

Crazy Horse. They have been working on that monument since the 1950's. I don't believe it will ever get finished.

330 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:10:04pm

John 8: 4-7.

They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

331 albusteve  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:10:16pm

New Mexico is home to the ancient Pueblo, the sedentary Hopi and Zuni...the wild Navajo, the dreaded Comanche and the Apache...Geronimo was born here, the Apache Kid id buried here...there is no state richer in Indian lore than NM period

332 tradewind  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:10:20pm

re: #320 Dark_Falcon
I have a feeling that he knows plenty about evolution, and is arguing rather out of principle that there should be local curriculum freedom, or some such crap.
( don't worry, don't wanna do any of that topic).

333 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:10:30pm

re: #313 Jimmah

Have you ever seen a movie set a lower benchmark of FAIL than Expelled?

Sure.

334 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:10:40pm

re: #324 The Sanity Inspector

It occurred to me just now to search Samizdata, the British libertarian blog, and I got nothing.

We found evidence that British government was sending people around to tell them to try not to throw out their leftovers and explaining the difference between "best by" and "experation date" but that doesn't seem nearly as sinister...

335 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:10:48pm

Why can't my barber make me look like this?

336 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:11:01pm

re: #307 albusteve

here in ABQ we have the Gathering of the Tribes...biggest Indian party in this hemisphere...they come in from all points of the continent, and it's world renown

Do these guys ever visit up from Mexico?

Youtube Video
337 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:11:05pm

re: #316 Cato the Elder

Delicious, delicious, lard-laden dinner. That'll show 'em.

Anything and chips.

338 tradewind  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:11:32pm

re: #327 Dark_Falcon
FearandHype 9-11 makes that list...

339 Jimmah  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:11:49pm

re: #300 Cato the Elder

Ooh, good, you're here.

Jimmah, could you please, as a representative of the gude auld UK, tell us whether there is anywhere in the Isles such a thing as a Food Patrol that can demand access to your pantry, ice-box or larder (shudder) and lecture you if the comestibles therein do not meet proper nutritional standards?

Such a claim was made earlier today and I hooted it off the thread. It just sounds so Monty-Pythonesque.

Not that I'd put it past the Nanny State to try such a thing, I just don't think they'd get past the first door of the first terrace house in the first council tract without getting covered in derision and bacon drippings.

YES! It's all true. They even measure your bananas and check for the correct EC defined banana geometry. Anything that doesn't measure up is confiscated, and then destroyed by fire. If they catch you with non-standard food again, you go to jail. /

Yes, this story is so Pythonesque I have to ask - did it come from the Daily Mail? LOL.

340 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:11:51pm

re: #335 Mosh

Why can't my barber make me look like this?

Why can't your brain be like his?

341 Kruk  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:12:00pm

re: #318 jamesfirecat

I will agree with you that in that case there was doubtlessly no need to even bother with a hate crimes charge.

May all juries be so decisive and intelligent.

The problem is that the justice system is only as good as the humans involved, or rather their prejudices. Blacks convicted of killing whites get the death penalty at higher rates even when other factors are controlled than whites convicted of killing blacks. All may be equal under the law, but some it seems are more equal than others.

342 keloyd  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:12:09pm

re: #79 jamesfirecat

If they should never be defined beyond ones actions, does that mean we should give people the same penalty for manslaughter and murder one?

Hmm, you got as far as "check" but not "check mate" if I can slip out of this corner you're backing me into - "Planning" is an action. "Hating" is not, even though they both happen in the brain. Therefore, I can keep to the legal principal that killing by accident or negligence or being drunk is not as bad as deliberate proper murder, or in my original case, torture + murder.

343 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:12:11pm

re: #240 The Sanity Inspector

Do you think that's happened in the last quarter-century, anywhere in the country?

Usually perpetrated by law enforcement personnel.

344 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:12:32pm

re: #237 Dark_Falcon

Don't worry about him Cato. They'll harrass, but you could take any of them who might actually try something.

Thank you. And you know why? Because Haku may be about the friendliest dog in the world, but he has a razor instinct for weirdos.

And in Korea, they use Jindos to guard military bases. Now, this is no joke: they can recognize up to 3,000 different people. That's a good-sized base. Anyone who belongs there or visits regularly, they won't even bark. Some new guy comes up and it's enough to wake the dead.

He knows everybody who ever came to my house more than once. He can tell them by the sound of their footsteps. My entire family, all my friends, the regular pizza guys, the UPS and FedEX dudes, and all of the mailmen who work this route - not a peep. But let a new USPS person come to the door and I'll know about it before the bell rings. It's uncanny.

And if someone should get past him - let's just say I have my steely and leaden resolve as a backup.

345 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:12:46pm

re: #340 MandyManners

Why can't your brain be like his?

Ouch! It kind of is.

Me and old Borky are like two peas in a pod.

346 SpaceJesus  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:12:53pm

ok so maybe the south isnt so bad after having watched the opening ceremonies thus far. good god canada, what is this crap you've strung together? ugh. wtf

347 albusteve  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:13:13pm

re: #336 The Sanity Inspector

Do these guys ever visit up from Mexico?


[Video]

not sure, but that was pretty exciting

348 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:13:25pm

re: #334 jamesfirecat

We found evidence that British government was sending people around to tell them to try not to throw out their leftovers and explaining the difference between "best by" and "experation date" but that doesn't seem nearly as sinister...

It is still unknown how many of these well-meaning social worker types were deployed, or, once deployed, how many actually got anyone to open the door to discuss leftovers.

349 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:13:43pm

re: #335 Mosh

Why can't my barber make me look like this?

Have you brought that photo in?

350 tradewind  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:14:14pm

Whoopsy, the opening ceremonies are going off the rails......

351 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:14:21pm

re: #349 SanFranciscoZionist

Have you brought that photo in?

Yes, and I'm shunned into a corner with no lollipop at the end.

352 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:14:35pm

re: #249 Jimmah

Another powerful piece of argumentation there from albusteve. One of LGF's resident Einsteins BenSteins.

You may not understand this, but I like Steve a great deal. And he gives as good as he gets.

He's not Catonian, but then he's a New Mexican. Not American, not Mexican. You'd have to go there to grok it.

353 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:14:46pm

re: #338 tradewind

FearandHype 9-11 makes that list...

I chose not to use that movie. While I consider it a fail, others might not and I wanted to use examples that would be more universally excepted as failures. Still, I do agree with you.

354 tradewind  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:14:57pm

re: #340 MandyManners
He should be so lucky.
Worst thing Edward Kennedy ever did in his life, may he rest in peace.

355 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:15:53pm

re: #246 Mosh

Again you strawman me. I never said I supported the death penalty for second degree murder.

Upding for "strawman" as verb.

356 tradewind  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:15:57pm

re: #352 Cato the Elder
Well, there's Don Imus. Perfect example.

357 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:16:20pm

re: #345 Mosh

Ouch! It kind of is.

Me and old Borky are like two peas in a pod.

Well, then.

I am a pro-choice Republican.

Deal.

358 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:16:29pm

re: #355 Cato the Elder

Thanks Cato!

359 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:16:32pm

re: #342 keloyd

Hmm, you got as far as "check" but not "check mate" if I can slip out of this corner you're backing me into - "Planning" is an action. "Hating" is not, even though they both happen in the brain. Therefore, I can keep to the legal principal that killing by accident or negligence or being drunk is not as bad as deliberate proper murder, or in my original case, torture + murder.

What if in the case of Mathew Shepard it is clear that the people involved planned to kill a member of a particular group (the gays) and do so in such a horrific way so as to terroize the other members of that community?

360 tradewind  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:17:13pm

re: #348 SanFranciscoZionist
This from the country that gave the world bangers and mash?

361 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:17:17pm

re: #357 MandyManners

Well, then.

I am a pro-choice Republican.

Deal.

Me too but I still think that it's an issue for the states to decide.
I am an Originalist after all.

362 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:17:21pm

re: #4 Ojoe

"Love one another."

Who said that?

The Youngbloods!

Youtube Video
363 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:18:03pm

re: #350 tradewind

Whoopsy, the opening ceremonies are going off the rails...

Yup....But still better than any Super Bowl Half time show...

364 What, me worry?  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:18:25pm

re: #344 Cato the Elder

Wow. I was just looking at them online. We have a mutt which I'm sure is part chow, but now I think really looks like a Jindo! Pretty dog!

365 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:19:04pm

re: #344 Cato the Elder

Thank you. And you know why? Because Haku may be about the friendliest dog in the world, but he has a razor instinct for weirdos.

And in Korea, they use Jindos to guard military bases. Now, this is no joke: they can recognize up to 3,000 different people. That's a good-sized base. Anyone who belongs there or visits regularly, they won't even bark. Some new guy comes up and it's enough to wake the dead.

He knows everybody who ever came to my house more than once. He can tell them by the sound of their footsteps. My entire family, all my friends, the regular pizza guys, the UPS and FedEX dudes, and all of the mailmen who work this route - not a peep. But let a new USPS person come to the door and I'll know about it before the bell rings. It's uncanny.

And if someone should get past him - let's just say I have my steely and leaden resolve as a backup.

Indeed. Now, we just have to make sure to get you a money supply to match your resolve.

366 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:19:10pm

re: #354 tradewind

He should be so lucky.
Worst thing Edward Kennedy ever did in his life, may he rest in peace.

Kennedy was lucky Bork didn't sue him for libel. But that probably wouldn't have helped his confirmation.

I think Ted Kennedy, Arlen Specter, Joe Biden, and John Warner destroyed Bork's chances. (What losers they all are)

367 Kruk  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:19:18pm

re: #342 keloyd

Hmm, you got as far as "check" but not "check mate" if I can slip out of this corner you're backing me into - "Planning" is an action. "Hating" is not, even though they both happen in the brain. Therefore, I can keep to the legal principal that killing by accident or negligence or being drunk is not as bad as deliberate proper murder, or in my original case, torture + murder.

What about the difference between deliberately killing a police officer when you know he or she is a police officer, and deliberately killing a police officer when you don't know any such thing? Killing your wife because she was leaving you and putting a contract out on her life for her life insurance? Often, one set of those examples carries an automatic capital punishment in a jurisdiction while the other doesn't. It all comes down to the assesment of what was happening in the accused's brain.

368 Racer X  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:19:25pm

Mosquito Shot Down By a Laser

Liveleak Video

You're looking at a mosquito who got taken down mid-flight by a laser gun designed by Nathan Myhrvold. The malaria-carrying pest never saw it coming, but you can watch everything happen over and over again in this video.

The idea behind the laser is that it could be used to control mosquito populations in developing countries in hopes of reducing the number of deaths due to malaria.

369 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:19:42pm

re: #363 HoosierHoops

Yup...But still better than any Super Bowl Half time show...

Better than U2 in 2002?

370 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:19:44pm

re: #361 Mosh

Me too but I still think that it's an issue for the states to decide.
I am an Originalist after all.

Do you blame someone who moves to Florida for their house getting destroyed by a hurricane?

Because that's like blaming a woman for getting pregnant while having sex.

You knew one could lead to the other so its all your fault!

371 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:20:40pm

re: #368 Racer X

Mosquito Shot Down By a Laser


[Video]You're looking at a mosquito who got taken down mid-flight by a laser gun designed by Nathan Myhrvold. The malaria-carrying pest never saw it coming, but you can watch everything happen over and over again in this video.

The idea behind the laser is that it could be used to control mosquito populations in developing countries in hopes of reducing the number of deaths due to malaria.

How long till we have ones powerful enough to use on human sized targets?

372 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:20:55pm

re: #368 Racer X

Mosquito Shot Down By a Laser


[Video]You're looking at a mosquito who got taken down mid-flight by a laser gun designed by Nathan Myhrvold. The malaria-carrying pest never saw it coming, but you can watch everything happen over and over again in this video.

The idea behind the laser is that it could be used to control mosquito populations in developing countries in hopes of reducing the number of deaths due to malaria.

SDI comes to Pest Control. Ronald Reagan would've loved it. ;)

373 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:21:14pm

re: #370 jamesfirecat

Do you blame someone who moves to Florida for their house getting destroyed by a hurricane?

Because that's like blaming a woman for getting pregnant while having sex.

You knew one could lead to the other so its all your fault!

Oh, God James. Let it go! Ya pro-choice fanatic ///

374 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:21:15pm

re: #361 Mosh

You down-dinged me earlier.

Sorry, if I offended you.

375 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:21:43pm

re: #350 tradewind

Whoopsy, the opening ceremonies are going off the rails...

Ugh, I just watched the vid of that luger getting killed. Sure hope he didn't feel anything. 145mph --> 0 in a split second is a hell of a way to go.

376 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:21:46pm

re: #370 jamesfirecat

Do you blame someone who moves to Florida for their house getting destroyed by a hurricane?

Because that's like blaming a woman for getting pregnant while having sex.

You knew one could lead to the other so its all your fault!

SHUT THE FUCK UP, JAMES. RIGHT HOW.

377 Jadespring  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:21:55pm

re: #368 Racer X

Mosquito Shot Down By a Laser


[Video]You're looking at a mosquito who got taken down mid-flight by a laser gun designed by Nathan Myhrvold. The malaria-carrying pest never saw it coming, but you can watch everything happen over and over again in this video.

The idea behind the laser is that it could be used to control mosquito populations in developing countries in hopes of reducing the number of deaths due to malaria.

I dunno if that's a good idea. The mosquitos might evolve some sort of super hard laser proof insect armor and then what would we do. Might make hand held swatters quite useless.

378 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:22:28pm

re: #369 Dark_Falcon

Better than U2 in 2002?

I love the Olympics!
Time to light the torch! Who will it be?

379 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:22:33pm

re: #377 Jadespring

I dunno if that's a good idea. The mosquitos might evolve some sort of super hard laser proof insect armor and then what would we do. Might make hand held swatters quite useless.

Get me Hollywood on the phone and hurry!

380 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:22:49pm

re: #374 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You down-dinged me earlier.

Sorry, if I offended you.

I don't remember down-dinging you. Tell me the post, I'll check it out and correct it if necessary.

381 Racer X  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:23:04pm

re: #371 jamesfirecat

How long till we have ones powerful enough to use on human sized targets?

We have those now.

382 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:23:20pm

re: #376 MandyManners

SHUT THE FUCK UP, JAMES. RIGHT HOW.

Thanks Mandy! (Blinking again! tehe)

383 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:24:15pm

re: #380 Mosh

No, that's fine. Just was surprised. Was kind of a silly post.

Let it stand.

384 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:25:01pm

re: #383 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

No, that's fine. Just was surprised. Was kind of a silly post.

Let it stand.

No, I won't accept that. I'm a justice hawk!

385 Racer X  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:25:15pm

re: #376 MandyManners

SHUT THE FUCK UP, JAMES. RIGHT HOW.

I say let the guy continue.

He is - amusing.

386 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:25:53pm

re: #385 Racer X

I say let the guy continue.

He is - amusing.

The gods of Discworld like to have philosophers around, they made good target practice if nothing else.

387 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:26:04pm

Oh God! The New York Slimes is slandering our troops again! Look at the photo!

388 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:26:04pm

re: #378 HoosierHoops

I love the Olympics!
Time to light the torch! Who will it be?

Watched the opening ceremonies in a bar with the sound off. I was blown away with the visual... wanna hear it. I'll find it on the intertubes soon.

389 lostlakehiker  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:26:32pm

U.S. style hate crime laws, so far, criminalize conduct that is already criminal. They just enhance the sentencing. I'm fine with that, because sentencing in general is too lenient.

Canadian human rights commission-style hate crime laws criminalize speech. In Canada, it is illegal to cite certain Bible verses. This indeed criminalizes religious belief, and these guys can argue that they're worried about a slippery slope.

390 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:27:01pm

re: #384 Mosh

Okay. I said that the human race has lost it's f**king mind.

You down dinged it. I'll survive.

391 Jadespring  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:27:15pm

re: #388 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Watched the opening ceremonies in a bar with the sound off. I was blown away with the visual... wanna hear it. I'll find it on the intertubes soon.

My favourite part was the whales swimming across the stadium.

392 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:27:34pm

re: #389 lostlakehiker

U.S. style hate crime laws, so far, criminalize conduct that is already criminal. They just enhance the sentencing. I'm fine with that, because sentencing in general is too lenient.

Canadian human rights commission-style hate crime laws criminalize speech. In Canada, it is illegal to cite certain Bible verses. This indeed criminalizes religious belief, and these guys can argue that they're worried about a slippery slope.

Does Canada have a first amendment style law to serve as hand rail to keep people steady on that slope?

393 wee fury  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:27:37pm
TYLER, Texas, Feb. 9 (UPI) -- Fires that broke out within 35 minutes of each other destroyed two Texas churches located just three miles apart, authorities said.

Authorities were investigating the blazes, which occurred near the central Texas town of Tyler Monday night, The Dallas Morning News reported.

Eight church fires in east and central Texas have been confirmed arsons this year, the Texas Department of Public Safety said Tuesday.

The latest fires have not been ruled arson, but Smith County fire officials did tell the Tyler Morning Telegraph both churches had been broken into.

If the fires were started by the same person/people -- could this be considered a hate crime?

394 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:27:46pm

re: #387 Mosh

Oh God! The New York Slimes is slandering our troops again! Look at the photo!

Excuse me?

395 tradewind  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:28:08pm

re: #375 The Sanity Inspector
Oh..... poor choice of words on my part, sorry. Yes, that must have been awful, but hopefully instant for him.

Goodnight, ya'll. Don't do any hatin' in those overnight threads, it's just criminal.....

396 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:28:28pm

re: #391 Jadespring

Didn't that BLOW YOUR MIND? (no pun intended)

Did mine.

397 jaunte  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:28:31pm

re: #368 Racer X

Myrvold's site has some interesting info on the Traveling Wave Reactor:

Advanced Traveling-wave reactors offer a path to zero-emissions, proliferation-resistant energy that would reduce nuclear waste volumes. Exploiting new physics that has only recently been fully explored with 21st-century computational tools, traveling-wave reactors run on depleted uranium, a waste byproduct of the enrichment process.
[Link: intellectualventureslab.com...]
398 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:28:38pm

re: #390 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Okay. I said that the human race has lost it's f**king mind.

You down dinged it. I'll survive.

I tried searching "mind" and "lost" and couldn't find your comment. :(

Sorry FBV!

399 Racer X  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:28:51pm

Raptor Devours Cheerleader

Youtube Video
400 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:28:51pm

re: #393 wee fury

If the fires were started by the same person/people -- could this be considered a hate crime?

I'd say so, they're clearly targeting a group of people/buildings because of what religion they belong to.

Hate crimes aren't just for the minorities they're for everyone!

401 keloyd  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:29:03pm

re: #100 MandyManners

Will someone please tell me where Christ Himself told us to kill sinners?

Jesus himself didn't get to stick around long enough to go into specifics. He also never told us to imprison or fine sinners. St. Paul had no problem with it in Acts 25.

Speaking for myself, life in prison seems worse than death. I would prefer quick death (likely in Texas) to life in prison (40+ years for me maybe) for a crime let's assume I did not commit. Eternity with choirs eternal, the communion of saints, and You Know Whom, or 40 years of prison life, hmm.

402 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:29:26pm

ATTENTION PASSENGERS:
THIS THREAD IS NOW GOING TO LEBANON.

Pink Ouija Board Targeting Young Girls Riles Critics

Actual sentence from an actual news story: "It’s designed for young girls ages 8 and older, but some say the mysterious product is a 'dangerous spiritual game' that opens up anyone, particularly Christians, to attacks on their soul."

Holy shit, is this a leaked script from "Anchorman II: The Revenge of Ron Burgundy"?

403 Jimmah  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:29:35pm

re: #352 Cato the Elder

You may not understand this, but I like Steve a great deal. And he gives as good as he gets.

He's not Catonian, but then he's a New Mexican. Not American, not Mexican. You'd have to go there to grok it.

No thanks. I prefer to just torture him with Jesse Rae and Laibach from a safe distance.

If steve tried to argue his point more, instead of just listing his grievances or making provocative or anklebiting comments, I'd like him more.

404 Kruk  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:29:41pm

re: #398 Mosh

I tried searching "mind" and "lost" and couldn't find your comment. :(

Sorry FBV!

Brain and brain! What is "brain"?

(Bonus marks to anyone who gets that one.)

405 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:29:45pm

re: #394 Charles

Excuse me?

That was an odd photo to choose to put on the top of a story titled Coalition Begins Major Afghan Offensive".

406 Jadespring  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:29:45pm

re: #396 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Didn't that BLOW YOUR MIND? (no pun intended)

Did mine.

Yes considering how many times I've been to that stadium and even been in shows on that floor. It was cool and creepy at the same time. :D

407 palomino  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:29:50pm

Hate crime laws, whether good or bad, are a conspiracy to silence Christians? Do they mean the laws made in American legislative chambers? (all of which are overwhelmingly populated by Christians)

This is the same specious argument made by some Christian right opponents of gay marriage--that their right to believe gayness is a sin is abridged if Adam and Steve have the word "marriage" on the contracts defining their relationship.

408 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:29:53pm

re: #366 Mosh

Kennedy was lucky Bork didn't sue him for libel. But that probably wouldn't have helped his confirmation.

I think Ted Kennedy, Arlen Specter, Joe Biden, and John Warner destroyed Bork's chances. (What losers they all are)

And instead of Bork, we got Clarence Thomas, the Silent Justice. That was an improvement, yep.

409 laZardo  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:30:04pm

And that's religion for you. Mix in conservatism and you get something we should've left in the 19th century.

410 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:30:12pm

re: #402 negativ

ATTENTION PASSENGERS:
THIS THREAD IS NOW GOING TO LEBANON.

Pink Ouija Board Targeting Young Girls Riles Critics

Actual sentence from an actual news story: "It’s designed for young girls ages 8 and older, but some say the mysterious product is a 'dangerous spiritual game' that opens up anyone, particularly Christians, to attacks on their soul."

Holy shit, is this a leaked script from "Anchorman II: The Revenge of Ron Burgundy"?

Will they hire Chris Mathews to play the lead?

411 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:30:26pm

re: #404 Kruk

No bonus marks for me.

412 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:30:41pm

WTF? FRENCH?

413 Kruk  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:31:35pm

re: #401 keloyd

Jesus himself didn't get to stick around long enough to go into specifics. He also never told us to imprison or fine sinners. St. Paul had no problem with it in Acts 25.

Speaking for myself, life in prison seems worse than death. I would prefer quick death (likely in Texas) to life in prison (40+ years for me maybe) for a crime let's assume I did not commit. Eternity with choirs eternal, the communion of saints, and You Know Whom, or 40 years of prison life, hmm.

Except if you get life, you can hope that someone like the Innocence Project people can get you out if you are in fact innocent. There have been dozens of such cases in the past few years.

414 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:31:36pm

re: #394 Charles

Excuse me?

That photo does not cast our troops in a good light. Our troops are only seen as gun-toting shadows while the Afghan is seen helpless-looking in the spotlight. It makes our troops look like oppressors.

415 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:31:51pm

re: #389 lostlakehiker

U.S. style hate crime laws, so far, criminalize conduct that is already criminal. They just enhance the sentencing. I'm fine with that, because sentencing in general is too lenient.

Canadian human rights commission-style hate crime laws criminalize speech. In Canada, it is illegal to cite certain Bible verses. This indeed criminalizes religious belief, and these guys can argue that they're worried about a slippery slope.

Only some religious belief. Ontario seriously flirted with permitting shariah law to set up parallel jurisdiction, in the early Aughties.

416 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:31:59pm

re: #414 Dark_Falcon

That photo does not cast our troops in a good light. Our troops are only seen as gun-toting shadows while the Afghan is seen helpless-looking in the spotlight. It makes our troops look like oppressors.

Well said.

417 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:32:08pm

re: #387 Mosh

Oh God! The New York Slimes is slandering our troops again! Look at the photo!

I fail to see how that is in any possible interpretation of the term "slander".

418 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:32:22pm

re: #393 wee fury

Was Krystallnacht a hate crime, or just a bunch of vandalism?

I expect an answer, but I'm in no hurry. Take your time.

419 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:32:53pm

re: #413 Kruk

Except if you get life, you can hope that someone like the Innocence Project people can get you out if you are in fact innocent. There have been dozens of such cases in the past few years.

Fair enough, but I don't think the innocence project is gonna be freeing Scott Roder any time soon. (not because they don't work on people like him but because there is believe.... a metric f***ton of evidence that he did it)

So the questions becomes for someone who is truly guilty which is crueler, life in prison to feel themselves dieing by inches or getting it over with quickly?

420 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:33:10pm

OH CRAP! KD LANG! SINGING LEONARD COHEN'S HALLELUJAH!

She's brilliant!

421 wee fury  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:33:15pm

re: #418 negativ

Was Krystallnacht a hate crime, or just a bunch of vandalism?

I expect an answer, but I'm in no hurry. Take your time.

Hate crime. Did I take too long?

422 Kruk  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:33:16pm

re: #405 Mosh

That was an odd photo to choose to put on the top of a story titled Coalition Begins Major Afghan Offensive".

Are you perchance attributing "intent" or "hate" to the NYT when you assume that picture was selected to show the US Army in a bad light?

423 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:33:27pm

re: #417 Cato the Elder

I fail to see how that is in any possible interpretation of the term "slander".

Sorry. I should have said "the New York Times is making our soldiers look like murderous thugs".

424 laZardo  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:33:32pm

re: #414 Dark_Falcon

That photo does not cast our troops in a good light. Our troops are only seen as gun-toting shadows while the Afghan is seen helpless-looking in the spotlight. It makes our troops look like oppressors.

Meanwhile, in Cricket...

425 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:33:38pm

re: #404 Kruk

KHAAAAAAAAN!!!!

426 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:33:48pm

re: #417 Cato the Elder

I fail to see how that is in any possible interpretation of the term "slander".

It's not slander, I have to agree. The photo is correctly captioned. But it does not cast our Army in a favorable light.

427 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:34:24pm

re: #395 tradewind

Oh... poor choice of words on my part, sorry. Yes, that must have been awful, but hopefully instant for him.

Goodnight, ya'll. Don't do any hatin' in those overnight threads, it's just criminal...

Actually, I wasn't objecting to your post at all, it just reminded me of that clip. No worries.

428 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:34:38pm

re: #424 laZardo

Meanwhile, in Cricket...

Of course they did. :)

429 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:34:38pm

re: #421 wee fury

Alright, good.

Now, please explain how you made the distinction.

430 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:35:09pm

re: #426 Dark_Falcon

It's not slander, I have to agree. The photo is correctly captioned. But it does not cast our Army in a favorable light.

I don't think its slander or libel, is there a special name for when you present factual information with a insulting/biased if "accurate" photo?

431 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:35:59pm

re: #430 jamesfirecat

I don't think its slander or libel, is there a special name for when you present factual information with a insulting/biased if "accurate" photo?

Propaganda.

432 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:36:06pm

re: #418 negativ

Was Krystallnacht a hate crime, or just a bunch of vandalism?

I expect an answer, but I'm in no hurry. Take your time.

Kristallnacht was perpetrated by the German government, remember. There was no one to bring them to book.

433 Kruk  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:36:24pm

re: #419 jamesfirecat

Fair enough, but I don't think the innocence project is gonna be freeing Scott Roder any time soon. (not because they don't work on people like him but because there is believe... a metric f***ton of evidence that he did it)

So the questions becomes for someone who is truly guilty which is crueler, life in prison to feel themselves dieing by inches or getting it over with quickly?

Oh, I agree. My post was specific to the case of an innocent person who was jailed for a crime they didn't commit. Someone like Roeder would no doubt prefer being a "martyr" to dying as a broken old man in prison.

434 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:36:26pm

re: #430 jamesfirecat

I don't think its slander or libel, is there a special name for when you present factual information with a insulting/biased if "accurate" photo?

The term is "New York Times Journalism".

435 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:37:06pm

re: #434 Dark_Falcon

The term is "New York Times Journalism".

I call it fancy fish wrap.

436 wee fury  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:37:08pm

re: #429 negativ

Alright, good.

Now, please explain how you made the distinction.

If you re-read my comment #329 -- I asked a question. I did not say what I thought.

437 laZardo  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:37:38pm

re: #428 Mosh

Articles like that give me hope over the whole conflict. Like the Iraqi National Team winning the Asian Football Cup.

438 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:38:04pm

re: #402 negativ

ATTENTION PASSENGERS:
THIS THREAD IS NOW GOING TO LEBANON.

Pink Ouija Board Targeting Young Girls Riles Critics

Actual sentence from an actual news story: "It’s designed for young girls ages 8 and older, but some say the mysterious product is a 'dangerous spiritual game' that opens up anyone, particularly Christians, to attacks on their soul."

Holy shit, is this a leaked script from "Anchorman II: The Revenge of Ron Burgundy"?

Hatecrimes legislation, separation of church and state, Harry Potter books, gay marriage, a congressman being sworn in on the Koran, pharmacists forced, FORCED! to fill prescriptions for birth control, people saying "Happy Holidays" at WalMart....

Is there no end to the persecution of Christians??? Won't someone think of the Christians?!?!

439 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:38:13pm

re: #430 jamesfirecat

I don't think its slander or libel, is there a special name for when you present factual information with a insulting/biased if "accurate" photo?

Photography delivers impact, not context. The most famous example is of the photo of General Ky executing a captured VC with his pistol. No one remembers the ARVNs who had been shot up earlier.

440 Jimmah  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:38:16pm

re: #292 Slumbering Behemoth

Now that I think about it, I too have been meaning to call you out on that, Jimmah. Seeing the way you bead up on the outside of my cold beer can is pretty damn obnoxious.

Heh - just saw this, In stitches! :)

441 Kruk  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:38:25pm

re: #423 Mosh

Sorry. I should have said "the New York Times is making our soldiers look like murderous thugs".

If that picture showed the man being gunned down, I would agree. Here, it seems more like the reality of a night op than anything else.

442 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:38:36pm

kd lang just stopped the olympic train with "hallelujah".
Fanfuckingtastic.

443 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:38:59pm

re: #408 Cato the Elder

And instead of Bork, we got Clarence Thomas, the Silent Justice. That was an improvement, yep.

Anthony Kennedy got the seat after Bork was rejected.

Thomas got Thurgood Marshall's.

He's a good listener, what's wrong with that?

444 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:39:03pm

re: #437 laZardo

Articles like that give me hope over the whole conflict. Like the Iraqi National Team winning the Asian Football Cup.

Forgive me for sounding sarcastic, but isn't it a little arbitrary to judge the state of a nation based on how well its sports teams are doing?

445 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:39:45pm

re: #444 jamesfirecat

Forgive me for sounding sarcastic, but isn't it a little arbitrary to judge the state of a nation based on how well its sports teams are doing?

Nothing wrong with a little national pride.

446 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:40:13pm

re: #439 The Sanity Inspector

Photography delivers impact, not context. The most famous example is of the photo of General Ky executing a captured VC with his pistol. No one remembers the ARVNs who had been shot up earlier.

Not saying it isn't biased, I'm just wondering what is the right word for what they're doing.

Its slander if you say it aloud, its libel if its in print, what do you call it if its in picture?

447 Kruk  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:40:19pm

re: #425 negativ

KHAAAN!!!

Here's a upding. Us geeks have to stick together.

448 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:40:32pm

re: #444 jamesfirecat

Forgive me for sounding sarcastic, but isn't it a little arbitrary to judge the state of a nation based on how well its sports teams are doing?

No. Saddam's psycho son would have the footie team tortured if they didn't play well. Little of that going on nowadays, which is a good thing.

449 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:40:38pm

re: #442 Spare O'Lake

kd lang just stopped the olympic train with "hallelujah".
Fanfuckingtastic.

S'what I'm saying! Damn I love her voice.

450 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:40:53pm

re: #389 lostlakehiker

U.S. style hate crime laws, so far, criminalize conduct that is already criminal. They just enhance the sentencing. I'm fine with that, because sentencing in general is too lenient.

Canadian human rights commission-style hate crime laws criminalize speech. In Canada, it is illegal to cite certain Bible verses. This indeed criminalizes religious belief, and these guys can argue that they're worried about a slippery slope.

Canadian-style "human rights" laws : law :: Genghis Kahn : diplomacy

451 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:41:15pm

re: #392 jamesfirecat

Does Canada have a first amendment style law to serve as hand rail to keep people steady on that slope?

Nope.

452 Racer X  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:41:18pm

10 Terrible Bigots in Modern History

453 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:41:18pm

re: #444 jamesfirecat

Forgive me for sounding sarcastic, but isn't it a little arbitrary to judge the state of a nation based on how well its sports teams are doing?

Not arbitrary at all, just wishful thinking. That's how "hope" works.

454 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:41:41pm

re: #448 The Sanity Inspector

No. Saddam's psycho son would have the footie team tortured if they didn't play well. Little of that going on nowadays, which is a good thing.

Ahh good point.

Just trying to say that if the US wins say.... 30 gold medals (not sure how many we normally take home) at the winter games that doesn't mean we're currently not in a recession.

Though I suppose we could melt down the metals and use the gold to stimulate the economy....

455 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:41:52pm

re: #446 jamesfirecat


Its slander if you say it aloud, its libel if its in print, what do you call it if its in picture?

Reality exhibiting its well-known liberal bias, once again.

456 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:42:33pm

re: #448 The Sanity Inspector

No. Saddam's psycho son would have the footie team tortured if they didn't play well. Little of that going on nowadays, which is a good thing.

Imagine Iraq under Uday or Qusay. It would have been way more brutal than Saddam.

That's a great argument to use against people who say "Iraq was better off under Saddam. We messed it all up". Ugh.

457 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:42:54pm

Wait! No Celene Dion?

OH, CANADA!

458 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:43:06pm

re: #446 jamesfirecat

Not saying it isn't biased, I'm just wondering what is the right word for what they're doing.

Its slander if you say it aloud, its libel if its in print, what do you call it if its in picture?

Oh, okay. You know, I can't think of a good term for it, how 'bout that...The closest I know of was coined during an African famine. A picture of a prostrate, starving child with a vulture standing behind it was put out on the wires. Someone called it "disaster porn".

459 Gus  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:44:24pm

re: #431 Mosh

Propaganda.

How is that propaganda? Tyler Hicks was the embedded photographer and more than likely this photo would have to be cleared by command. The specific caption reads:

Company K, accompanied by an Afghan army platoon, set down in three landing zones to gain a foothold in territory long under insurgent control. Here, an Afghan villager, who was not detained, was confronted at the first compound that the Marines seized.

460 laZardo  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:44:48pm

re: #452 Racer X

#2's name can be shortened to Dick Butt.

/nelson laugh

461 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:44:52pm

re: #400 jamesfirecat

I'd say so, they're clearly targeting a group of people/buildings because of what religion they belong to.

Hate crimes aren't just for the minorities they're for everyone!

Oh, now that's bullshit.

Prove that some black guy killed a white guy because he hates WASPs?

Hell, to most people in this country you can't even prove that Jeremiah Wright is a fucking racist.

462 Jadespring  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:45:28pm

re: #420 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

OH CRAP! KD LANG! SINGING LEONARD COHEN'S HALLELUJAH!

She's brilliant!

Okay. I think I have a new favourite part.

463 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:45:28pm

re: #456 Mosh

Imagine Iraq under Uday or Qusay. It would have been way more brutal than Saddam.

That's a great argument to use against people who say "Iraq was better off under Saddam. We messed it all up". Ugh.

Indeed. The 101st Airborne put those two in the ground with two well placed TOW missiles.

464 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:45:52pm

re: #405 Mosh

That was an odd photo to choose to put on the top of a story titled Coalition Begins Major Afghan Offensive".

And you go from there to "slandering our troops"? Get a grip.

465 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:46:03pm

re: #461 Cato the Elder

Oh, now that's bullshit.

Prove that some black guy killed a white guy because he hates WASPs?

Hell, to most people in this country you can't even prove that Jeremiah Wright is a fucking racist.

Would it look something like this?

[Link: www.angelfire.com...]

466 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:46:13pm

Hot opera singers make me happy.

467 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:46:15pm

re: #423 Mosh

Sorry. I should have said "the New York Times is making our soldiers look like murderous thugs".

Have you ever had an account at LGF under a different name?

468 Mosh  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:46:55pm

re: #459 Gus 802

How is that propaganda? Tyler Hicks was the embedded photographer and more than likely this photo would have to be cleared by command. The specific caption reads:

Company K, accompanied by an Afghan army platoon, set down in three landing zones to gain a foothold in territory long under insurgent control. Here, an Afghan villager, who was not detained, was confronted at the first compound that the Marines seized.

Still, the New York Times couldn't have picked a more flattering photo. Maybe US troops in their Humvees waving to grateful Afghans or troops loading up their guns before they march valiantly into battle.

470 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:47:02pm

re: #467 Charles

Have you ever had an account at LGF under a different name?

Ruh-roh.

471 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:47:10pm

re: #414 Dark_Falcon

That photo does not cast our troops in a good light. Our troops are only seen as gun-toting shadows while the Afghan is seen helpless-looking in the spotlight. It makes our troops look like oppressors.

Whereas we all know that "our troops" have never, would never, and will never be anything but angels in human form.

472 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:47:30pm

Moment of silence for who?

473 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:47:37pm

re: #455 iceweasel

Reality exhibiting its well-known liberal bias, once again.

Careful. Here at LGF over the years we've seen how people can lie using photographs.

474 Jimmah  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:47:45pm

re: #333 Slumbering Behemoth

Sure.

Aaargh! The goggles - they do nothing!

This one could also give Expelled a run for it's money (whatever the hell it is):

Youtube Video
475 Jadespring  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:48:06pm

re: #472 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Moment of silence for who?

The Georgian luger that was killed today.

476 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:48:24pm

re: #472 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

oh

477 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:48:29pm

re: #459 Gus 802

How is that propaganda? Tyler Hicks was the embedded photographer and more than likely this photo would have to be cleared by command. The specific caption reads:

Company K, accompanied by an Afghan army platoon, set down in three landing zones to gain a foothold in territory long under insurgent control. Here, an Afghan villager, who was not detained, was confronted at the first compound that the Marines seized.

I agree. It's not propaganda and there's nothing wrong with that photo. It was taken by a photographer embedded with the US military. It's a factual portrayal of an event.

478 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:48:43pm

re: #456 Mosh

Imagine Iraq under Uday or Qusay. It would have been way more brutal than Saddam.

That's a great argument to use against people who say "Iraq was better off under Saddam. We messed it all up". Ugh.

And those people would still be blaming us for the Iraqi people's suffering, just as they did during the Oil For Palaces farce.

479 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:48:49pm

re: #426 Dark_Falcon

It's not slander, I have to agree. The photo is correctly captioned. But it does not cast our Army in a favorable light.

Casting our Army in a favorable light is the job of the Pentagon press office.

480 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:48:57pm

re: #475 Jadespring

thanks

481 Kruk  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:48:58pm

re: #468 Mosh

Still, the New York Times couldn't have picked a more flattering photo. Maybe US troops in their Humvees waving to grateful Afghans or troops loading up their guns before they march valiantly into battle.

The NYT is not the US military's public relations arm. It's not their job to be flattering, just to report what they see as they see it.

482 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:49:24pm

re: #471 Cato the Elder

Whereas we all know that "our troops" have never, would never, and will never be anything but angels in human form.

Point taken, but I still think the photo choice was bad.

483 Gus  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:49:25pm

re: #468 Mosh

Still, the New York Times couldn't have picked a more flattering photo. Maybe US troops in their Humvees waving to grateful Afghans or troops loading up their guns before they march valiantly into battle.

War isn't supposed to be flattering. That used to be done by Army photographers in WWII from time to time. I see nothing wrong with this photograph and it conveys a feeling of "danger in the night." The article itself is positive.

484 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:50:21pm

re: #465 jamesfirecat

Would it look something like this?

[Link: www.angelfire.com...]

Google the phrase "fucking haole" sometime, and soak in the love...

485 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:50:41pm

re: #423 Mosh

Sorry. I should have said "the New York Times is making our soldiers look like murderous thugs".

Right. Because it shows them shining a fucking flashlight on some dude.

486 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:51:20pm

re: #468 Mosh

Mosh, you need to answer Charles.

487 That's Sarah Palin's Science Advisor To You  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:52:24pm

Now look folks - you guys are taking all of this the wrong way.

We just don't want people telling us what we are allowed to think or say. Is that all that bad?

Now regarding gays, let me restate that we don't hate gays.

We just don't want teh gays getting married, teaching, taking over institutions by working for them or stuff like that.

Gays make great interior designers, waiters, pet sitters (but not baby sitters!) and hairdressers. Do we "hate" them for that? No!

Like I said - we don't want people telling us what to do or thin. We just don't want gays doing certain things and we certainly don't want anyone thinking that they are "normal."

488 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:52:31pm

re: #443 Mosh

Anthony Kennedy got the seat after Bork was rejected.

Thomas got Thurgood Marshall's.

He's a good listener, what's wrong with that?

He's a good listener? How do you know? He's never voted against the "conservative" party line once. Not one single time.

Uncle Tom is the most reliable vote on the bench.

489 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:53:09pm

Uh huh.

It was 'YoungLibertarian92' back again, for the fourth time.

490 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:53:17pm

It must piss Charles off to no end, but to know that someone just can't live without your website has to help the anger.

Socks are pitifully embarrassing.

491 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:53:33pm

re: #348 SanFranciscoZionist

It is still unknown how many of these well-meaning social worker types were deployed, or, once deployed, how many actually got anyone to open the door to discuss leftovers.

Scotland used to have the worst health of any one in the EU, including nutrition, diet, pretty much everything.

Also, anecdotal evidence here, but the US FDA and the equivalent Brit organisation have very different regulations. The various US boards supply lots more information and more thorough in my opinion than the UK does.
Anecdotal evidence: I'm not much of a meat eater, but Jimmah is. Consequently now I'm cooking meat. Not only couldn't I find a meat thermometer, people in the relevant town don't even know what it is. The UK guidelines for cooking and safe defrosting of poultry are also way less stringent than the US ones. It freaks me out a bit, to be honest.

Anyway, I can easily believe that a lot of people in the UK aren't storing their food with any sort of the procedures we consider normal in the US. I know the US has a pretty high percentage of illness due to food contamination for such a wealthy nation; I'd be interested to see what the UK's is. (Tho in the US I'm sure climate plays a big role. Not so much the UK)

It's probably not such a bad idea to have some dogooders popping round offering (voluntary) information on dietary choices in the UK, handling, prep, and storage.
They aren't removing the deep fat fryers from people's homes or rummaging through the freezer to confiscate your fish and chips or 'potato waffles'.
But they can have my Marmite if they want it. /

492 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:53:48pm

re: #488 Cato the Elder

dude.

493 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:54:10pm

re: #477 Charles

I seriously doubt that the Times would have run a photo of the Afghan man smiling and shaking hands with the squad, before they continue on their way.

494 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:54:14pm

re: #489 Charles

Uh huh.

It was 'YoungLibertarian92' back again, for the fourth time.

Well, at least I get to use that bag of charcoal. I'll light up the grill for roast Mosh in 35 minutes.

495 Jadespring  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:54:20pm

Yay it's Rick Hansen. Good choice.

496 palomino  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:54:41pm

re: #473 The Sanity Inspector

Careful. Here at LGF over the years we've seen how people can lie using photographs.

But whatever the NYT is trying to say about our troops or the war is much more abstract (largely a matter of their opinion) than knowingly producing a false document to damage someone's character/reelection chances.

497 zora  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:55:15pm

ire: #457 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I can believe it either.

498 laZardo  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:55:38pm

re: #494 Dark_Falcon

Well, at least I get to use that bag of charcoal. extra tank of propane. I'll light up the grill for roast Mosh in 35 minutes.

/fixed for Hank Hill certification.

499 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:55:51pm

re: #488 Cato the Elder

Sorry Cato, but I have to downding for the "Uncle Tom" line. That's a very inflammatory term, and I'd ask you not to use it to refer to people.

500 zora  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:56:14pm

re: #497 zora


I meant "can't" - PIMF

501 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:56:34pm

re: #498 laZardo

/fixed for Hank Hill certification.

My family grills with charcoal. We're from Illinois, not Texas.

502 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:56:38pm

re: #489 Charles

Uh huh.

It was 'YoungLibertarian92' back again, for the fourth time.

Well I guess that must mean I'm starting to figure out the tone here at LGF when I find myself spending a few hours vehemently arguing with a guy who has been kicked out several times before....

503 keloyd  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:57:24pm

re: #359 jamesfirecat

What if in the case of Mathew Shepard it is clear that the people involved planned to kill a member of a particular group (the gays) and do so in such a horrific way so as to terroize the other members of that community?


I still prefer the Texas way - charge with plain vanilla murder and you're dead in a year or less. Maybe the terror element is a felony on the books already? That is some pretty good logic though. If I was a little more awake and sober I may be able to shoot you down, but not this minute.
re: #367 Kruk
That's a pretty good point. Still, and this is not my strongest arguement ever, but status of 'spouse' or 'government agent' are a bit more universal than belonging to a protected ethnicity or catching teh ghey. Further, in local politics, I've seen these different protected classes fight like cats and dogs. The black and hispanic city politicians get in little battles constantly where I have lived. Giving them the added tool in their kit of 'hate crimes' is like unto giving racists the tool in their kit of literacy tests. That's all I got.

504 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:58:19pm

re: #483 Gus 802

War isn't supposed to be flattering. That used to be done by Army photographers in WWII from time to time. I see nothing wrong with this photograph and it conveys a feeling of "danger in the night." The article itself is positive.

My "favorite" example of photo-editorializing from the WOT was from 2003, when the invasion of Iraq commenced. The three major American newsmagazines ran covers reflecting their attitudes towards the war. Newsweek's showed a wounded American soldier, in agony, being helped back by a buddy. U.S. News & World Report showed a sergeant looking back at the camera, shouting and waving his squad forward. And Time show a soldier's portrait, stoically enduring a facial wound.

505 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:58:38pm

re: #489 Charles

Uh huh.

It was 'YoungLibertarian92' back again, for the fourth time.

The persistence of youth.

506 Racer X  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:59:05pm

You are being watched

507 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:59:23pm

re: #502 jamesfirecat

Well I guess that must mean I'm starting to figure out the tone here at LGF when I find myself spending a few hours vehemently arguing with a guy who has been kicked out several times before...

Hopefully the folks who are constantly calling you a troll or telling you to STFU or similar, and who welcomed the actual troll with open arms, will think twice before continuing to treat you badly.

508 Jaerik  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:59:41pm

You can't kidnap and sacrifice someone to the sun god, then later claim religious freedom exemptions because you're part Mayan and your books say you should do so.

Similarly, you can't beat the crap out of some gay guy because you're a Christian, and then later claim religious freedom because your book said it was also okay.

(And yes, I am equating the two religions, as all rational, objective, secular, and internally consistent arguments should.)

The moral of the story is: don't kill, sacrifice, and/or beat the crap out of people, and you have nothing whatsoever to worry about from so-called "hate-crime" laws.

509 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:59:54pm

re: #505 Cato the Elder

The persistence of youth.

I still prefer the story of the guy/girl who came back 18 times, now that deserves the golden coyote award for being so determined at being so wrong!

510 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:01:24pm

re: #499 Dark_Falcon

Sorry Cato, but I have to downding for the "Uncle Tom" line. That's a very inflammatory term, and I'd ask you not to use it to refer to people.

I used it on purpose.

Some guy who benefited from affirmative action and then votes to pull up the ladder behind him would seem to merit it.

511 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:02:07pm

re: #477 Charles

I agree. It's not propaganda and there's nothing wrong with that photo. It was taken by a photographer embedded with the US military. It's a factual portrayal of an event.

It's a portrayal of an innocent civilian, who has obviously been forced to take off his shoes and who is obviously being terrorized at gunpoint and under blinding lights, by the US army.
The inclusion of the phrase "who was not detained" doesn't quite defuse the prejudicial impact of the photo, IMHO.
Factual or not, it is still propoganda.

512 palomino  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:02:09pm

Hasn't the NYT, over the past 8 years, run all sorts of photos of our military men and women? Some probably very flattering, some not so much.

513 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:02:13pm

re: #502 jamesfirecat

Well I guess that must mean I'm starting to figure out the tone here at LGF when I find myself spending a few hours vehemently arguing with a guy who has been kicked out several times before...

Or it could mean just the opposite.

514 Gus  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:02:17pm

re: #504 The Sanity Inspector

My "favorite" example of photo-editorializing from the WOT was from 2003, when the invasion of Iraq commenced. The three major American newsmagazines ran covers reflecting their attitudes towards the war. Newsweek's showed a wounded American soldier, in agony, being helped back by a buddy. U.S. News & World Report showed a sergeant looking back at the camera, shouting and waving his squad forward. And Time show a soldier's portrait, stoically enduring a facial wound.

Right. Every periodical will have a different interpretation. I never saw anything out of hand short of the one time the AP released the dying moments of recently deceased soldier. I've seen some of the unreleased photographs and if the public had seen those I couldn't imagine the reaction. Nothing in-action but mostly medical imagery.

515 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:02:35pm

re: #491 iceweasel

It's probably not such a bad idea to have some dogooders popping round offering (voluntary) information on dietary choices in the UK, handling, prep, and storage.

Egad, more anglicisms! She's morphing before our very eyes!

516 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:02:39pm

Happy Darwinmas!

517 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:02:49pm

The very absolute last moment... something messes up.

Sorry Canada.

But, still. No Celene Dion? No Bryan Adams?

OH CANADA!

518 Jadespring  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:03:32pm

re: #517 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

The very absolute last moment... something messes up.

Sorry Canada.

But, still. No Celene Dion? No Bryan Adams?

OH CANADA!

Bryan Adams sang at the beginning.

519 laZardo  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:03:47pm

re: #515 The Sanity Inspector

Crikey!

/wait, wrong anglicism. q;

520 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:03:49pm

re: #513 Cato the Elder

Or it could mean just the opposite.

Well I'd like to think you can tell a lot about someone by the quality of his enemies.

I suppose that said you could argue that there's nothing that hates a right wing troll like a left wing one...

521 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:04:13pm

re: #505 Cato the Elder

The persistence of youth.

The stalkers are in evil form tonight. Macker reaffirms that Charles was right to boot his ass, by posting a scene of Ted Kennedy and John Murtha in Hell. Stay classy shitty, stalkers!

522 palomino  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:04:32pm

re: #501 Dark_Falcon

My family grills with charcoal. We're from Illinois, not Texas.

No self-respecting Texan would grill with propane. Charcoal or wood, that's it. Otherwise you're getting no extra flavor and might as well be cooking indoors on a grill pan.

523 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:04:41pm

re: #511 Spare O'Lake

It's a portrayal of an innocent civilian, who has obviously been forced to take off his shoes and who is obviously being terrorized at gunpoint and under blinding lights, by the US army.

Holy crap, how many feet does that guy have?

524 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:05:07pm

re: #511 Spare O'Lake

It's a portrayal of an innocent civilian, who has obviously been forced to take off his shoes and who is obviously being terrorized at gunpoint and under blinding lights, by the US army.
The inclusion of the phrase "who was not detained" doesn't quite defuse the prejudicial impact of the photo, IMHO.
Factual or not, it is still propoganda.

Quite Concur.

525 RadicalModerate  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:05:22pm

re: #517 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

The very absolute last moment... something messes up.

Sorry Canada.

But, still. No Celene Dion? No Bryan Adams?

OH CANADA!

No Rush either.

And nice epic fail there at the last moment, Canada.

526 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:05:27pm

re: #523 Slumbering Behemoth

Holy crap, how many feet does that guy have?

I mean, how many?

527 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:05:28pm

re: #510 Cato the Elder

I used it on purpose.

Some guy who benefited from affirmative action and then votes to pull up the ladder behind him would seem to merit it.

That was how I took and why I updinged it.

528 palomino  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:05:37pm

re: #506 Racer X

but he can't catch me...yet

529 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:05:40pm

re: #515 The Sanity Inspector

Egad, more anglicisms! She's morphing before our very eyes!

Ha! I've gotten shit here for my anglicisms and spellings since I got here.
I'm contemplating switching to full on American spellings and usages once I move to Scotland, just to mess with people. :)
That would be awesome.

530 laZardo  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:05:42pm

Brb, must sanitize myself.

531 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:06:30pm

Thank you and good night.re: #529 iceweasel

Ha! I've gotten shit here for my anglicisms and spellings since I got here.
I'm contemplating switching to full on American spellings and usages once I move to Scotland, just to mess with people. :)
That would be awesome.

Aiiee!!!

532 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:06:36pm

re: #526 Slumbering Behemoth

I mean, how many?

Looks like five....

533 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:06:44pm

re: #518 Jadespring

Ewwww!

534 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:07:03pm

re: #511 Spare O'Lake

It's a portrayal of an innocent civilian, who has obviously been forced to take off his shoes and who is obviously being terrorized at gunpoint and under blinding lights, by the US army.
The inclusion of the phrase "who was not detained" doesn't quite defuse the prejudicial impact of the photo, IMHO.
Factual or not, it is still propoganda.

Tyler Hicks is embedded with the US military. Why do you think CENTCOM approved the release of the photo?

535 zora  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:07:29pm

re: #517 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Bryan Adams performed with Nelly Furtado

536 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:07:44pm

Amazing how people just jump at the troll bait.

That's why trolls do it, I guess.

537 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:07:56pm

re: #518 Jadespring

Bryan Adams sang at the beginning.

Reluctant ding.

538 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:08:20pm

re: #536 Charles

Amazing how people just jump at the troll bait.

That's why trolls do it, I guess.

Good counter point.

My ego is deflated.

539 Kruk  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:08:27pm

re: #367 Kruk
That's a pretty good point. Still, and this is not my strongest arguement ever, but status of 'spouse' or 'government agent' are a bit more universal than belonging to a protected ethnicity or catching teh ghey. Further, in local politics, I've seen these different protected classes fight like cats and dogs. The black and hispanic city politicians get in little battles constantly where I have lived. Giving them the added tool in their kit of 'hate crimes' is like unto giving racists the tool in their kit of literacy tests. That's all I got.

The problem with that argument that neither victims of a crime or city politicians don't get to decide what charges are brought. The District Attorney's office does. And to be honest, I think the white, hetro community has a far larger, more powerfull and varied toolkit of power and privilege at its disposal, so any fears of what the "protected ethnics" or gays might be able to do are groundless.

540 Jimmah  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:08:29pm

re: #502 jamesfirecat

Well I guess that must mean I'm starting to figure out the tone here at LGF when I find myself spending a few hours vehemently arguing with a guy who has been kicked out several times before...

This guy has bitten more dust around here than Wily E Coyote.

Youtube Video
541 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:08:42pm

re: #490 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

It must piss Charles off to no end, but to know that someone just can't live without your website has to help the anger.

Socks are pitifully embarrassing.

Amen, brotha. You shoud see my socks. Well, actually, you shouldn't.

I'm such a cheap-ass that only recently did I venture forth to Target to buy some new socks and underwear with which to replace my hole-ridden, years-old mainstays.

In case you're a married male who does not participate in such shenanigans, allow me to inform you that a set of 12 Chinese-made cotton socks, and 3 Chinese-made cotton boxers (we'll talk about the undisclosed benzine, asbestos, and melamine later) can cost upwards of $20 bucks. You'll no doubt agree that this is ri-goddam-diculous.

But then it occurred to me that -- aside from a select few STDS and a spot on the sex offender registry -- there are not many things I can buy today for $20 that I'll still have 15 years from now.

So I guess there's a case to be made for replacing embarrassing socks.

542 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:08:49pm

re: #535 zora

Oh! That's who that was. Sound was off! I didn't even recognize him.

Nelly looked delicious, if I may say so.

543 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:08:54pm

re: #491 iceweasel

Thing is, most of the things Americans think must be "refrigerated upon opening" don't require it at all. At least not if you live in one of our many temperate zones.

Butter in the fridge is an abomination. So is cheese. As for poultry, have you ever enjoyed hung pheasant?

I'd say ninety percent of our food paranoia is BS. Hell, my mother used to keep garlic bulbs in our oversized American ice-box until I explained to her how it only makes it sprout faster. Same with potatoes.

Definition of the American refrigerator: A place to store food until you're ready to throw it away.

544 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:09:09pm

re: #526 Slumbering Behemoth

I mean, how many?

You are absolutely right. The guy was heavily armed...with shoes!

545 Jadespring  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:09:12pm

re: #537 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Reluctant ding.

Oh, it cuts like a knife.

546 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:10:41pm

re: #544 Spare O'Lake

You are absolutely right. The guy was heavily armed...with shoes!

He was probably stocking up in case Bush visited....

547 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:11:03pm

re: #544 Spare O'Lake

He's a sandal smuggler. The most devious and pernicious brand of smugglers there are, I tells ya!

548 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:11:03pm

re: #541 negativ

The moment my socks/underoos begin looking worn, I pitch 'em.

549 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:11:21pm

re: #545 Jadespring

Oh, it cuts like a knife.

But, it doesn't feel right.

550 Jadespring  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:12:44pm

I've been getting texts from someone who was there. The ones that came when the thingy didn't go up were pretty funny.

551 Kruk  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:12:59pm

re: #539 Kruk

Ack. The first paragraph of that post is Keloyd's, and the one unnderneath is my reply. Messed up the tags.

552 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:13:59pm

Well, I'll say this for Mosh. He deserved my upding for using "strawman" as a verb. I'm going to steal that and pretend it's mine, sock-boy!

553 Jimmah  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:14:04pm

re: #515 The Sanity Inspector

Egad, more anglicisms! She's morphing before our very eyes!

Here in the UK, I get criticised for my 'Americanisms'. No idea what they are basing that kind of jive-talk on but I think it's funny - awesome, in fact.

554 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:14:14pm

re: #543 Cato the Elder

. As for poultry, have you ever enjoyed hung pheasant?

Hey, I heard one of you ladies ordered a pepperoni pizza...

Well, here's the pizza, and

*zzzzip*

here's the pepperoni

(mustache kung-fu ensues)

555 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:14:26pm

re: #550 Jadespring

Canadian Jihad time...

Some engineer/producer's gonna have his house teepeed.

556 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:14:36pm

re: #543 Cato the Elder


Definition of the American refrigerator: A place to store food until you're ready to throw it away.

Yup.
People would be appalled at the size of the fridge Jimmah and I have. They'd consider it only suitable for a minibar.

I love it. No more 'forgetting' about food in the fridge, I always know exactly what we have and where it is, leftovers get used, expired food gets thrown out. No more buying perishables in bulk just because it's a 'good deal' either.

It requires a slight amount of effort to get used to when you've grown with gigantic American fridges, but it's terrific.
Then again, I regard UK 'extended life' milk with grave suspicion, so some things won't change.

557 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:14:56pm

re: #516 Killgore Trout

Happy Darwinmas!

LOL!
You and your holidays!

558 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:15:11pm

re: #534 Charles

Tyler Hicks is embedded with the US military. Why do you think CENTCOM approved the release of the photo?

I have no idea why they approved the photo.
But I'll bet you a beer that the photo will be shown out of context and will play to many less-sophisticated viewers as being highly suggestive of US army terror tactics.

559 keloyd  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:15:34pm

re: #543 Cato the Elder

Keeping cheese on the counter under a big glass dome at room temperature is my secret method of making $3-4/lb cheese taste like $5-7/lb cheese.

Then there's margarine. I read on the internet that it's indestructible as long as it's not warm enough to melt. Put a stick in your garage, on the ground. Nothing will touch it, not mice, ants, roaches, bacteria. It's pretty much yellow candle wax with salt to taste. No living thing considers it 'food' but us.

560 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:15:43pm

re: #552 Cato the Elder

Well, I'll say this for Mosh. He deserved my upding for using "strawman" as a verb. I'm going to steal that and pretend it's mine, sock-boy!

Well it's not like he's gonna be around to complain about it!

Nah-Nah-Nah-Nah! Hey-Hey, Good-bye!

561 Jadespring  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:15:47pm

re: #555 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Canadian Jihad time...

Some engineer/producer's gonna have his house teepeed.

Nah. She said most people were laughing and giggling and making comments about being it being typical.

562 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:15:54pm

re: #536 Charles

Amazing how people just jump at the troll bait.

That's why trolls do it, I guess.

Point taken. Sorry, Charles. That guy seems to know how to get me on side. I need to adjust my troll radar.

563 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:16:02pm

re: #529 iceweasel

Ha! I've gotten shit here for my anglicisms and spellings since I got here.
I'm contemplating switching to full on American spellings and usages once I move to Scotland, just to mess with people. :)
That would be awesome.

You're funny! Silly kinda funny!

564 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:16:46pm

re: #548 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

The moment my socks/underoos begin looking worn, I pitch 'em.

Underoos? Really? Pfft! You are such a dork, nobody cool wears those.

All the cool Lizards wear Garanimals.

565 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:17:57pm

re: #2 Obdicut

There are good arguments on both side of the hate crimes laws. But to think that a law protecting homosexuals persecutes Christians-- that's rather revealing thinking.

Bigots work like that, don't they?

566 laZardo  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:18:14pm

re: #564 Slumbering Behemoth

Well, I just registered my name on a furry art site so I suppose that'd be the next logical step.

...

Aw, crap.

567 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:19:37pm

re: #556 iceweasel

Quote:
"Then again, I regard UK 'extended life' milk with grave suspicion, so some things won't change."

OK, I'll ask. WTF is "extended life" milk.
Do they have an equivalent of the FDA?
How many have died from this product?

568 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:19:40pm

re: #559 keloyd

Keeping cheese on the counter under a big glass dome at room temperature is my secret method of making $3-4/lb cheese taste like $5-7/lb cheese.

Then there's margarine. I read on the internet that it's indestructible as long as it's not warm enough to melt. Put a stick in your garage, on the ground. Nothing will touch it, not mice, ants, roaches, bacteria. It's pretty much yellow candle wax with salt to taste. No living thing considers it 'food' but us.

Margarine is marginally food. "I can't believe it's not a petroleum product" should have been the slogan.

569 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:19:42pm

re: #559 keloyd

Margarine is one molecule away from plastic.

Seriously.

570 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:20:38pm

re: #561 Jadespring

Nah. She said most people were laughing and giggling and making comments about being it being typical.

DEATH PANELS!

571 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:21:07pm

Man I miss the kooky anti-gay wackos thread AND a Steve Vai thread! I'm working too hard.

572 keloyd  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:21:24pm

I've heard talk like that about margarine, but always thought it was just propaganda from the corporate Big Butter, maybe not.

573 Jimmah  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:21:41pm

re: #569 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Margarine is one molecule away from plastic.

Seriously.

Haemoglobin is a single atom away from being chlorophyll.

574 laZardo  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:22:07pm

re: #572 keloyd

BIG BUTTER IS RIPPING US OFF!

/and I cannot lie.

575 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:22:41pm

re: #566 laZardo

Careful now... Only one from the Furry Delegation is allowed on Lizardoid soil as an ambassador of it's kind, and that position has been filled. All others trespassing on Scaly Lands will be executed on sight. Such is our law.

576 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:23:28pm

re: #573 Jimmah

Haemoglobin is a single atom away from being chlorophyll.

I am a single molecule away from being Lou Gramm. :D

577 Kruk  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:24:10pm

re: #571 WindUpBird

Man I miss the kooky anti-gay wackos thread AND a Steve Vai thread! I'm working too hard.

I'm *meant* to be working on my PhD. The Internet is the greatest time waster ever invented. :)

578 prairiefire  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:24:18pm

re: #489 Charles

Uh huh.

It was 'YoungLibertarian92' back again, for the fourth time.

OMG. Tenacious little guy/gal.

579 Jimmah  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:24:25pm

re: #556 iceweasel

Then again, I regard UK 'extended life' milk with grave suspicion, so some things won't change.

Some people forget that it may be long life, but it's not immortal.

580 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:24:44pm

re: #575 Slumbering Behemoth

Careful now... Only one from the Furry Delegation is allowed on Lizardoid soil as an ambassador of it's kind, and that position has been filled. All others trespassing on Scaly Lands will be executed on sight. Such is our law.

WHAT IS THE LAW?

NO SPILL BLOOD!

WHO MAKES THE RULES?

SOMEONE ELSE!

581 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:25:20pm

re: #576 WindUpBird

I am a single molecule away from being Lou Gramm. :D

I'm a single bad break away from being Matt Foley.

582 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:25:39pm

re: #556 iceweasel

Extended Life Milk sounds like something from the dark future.

Even more so if it was NEVER MILK TO BEGIN WITH *eerie theremin music*

583 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:25:53pm

re: #578 prairiefire

OMG. Tenacious little guy/galshit.

584 laZardo  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:26:10pm

re: #575 Slumbering Behemoth

Careful now... Only one from the Furry Delegation is allowed on Lizardoid soil as an ambassador of it's kind, and that position has been filled. All others trespassing on Scaly Lands will be executed on sight. Such is our law.

Well, fine. Here's my Reptilian Authenticity pass.

585 jaunte  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:26:26pm

Extended Life Milk sounds like a Moonie organization.

586 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:26:27pm

re: #581 Slumbering Behemoth

In a van? Down by the river?

587 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:26:46pm

We interrupt this thread to bring you my dream car: Image: Car03.jpg

588 Kruk  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:27:10pm

re: #584 laZardo

Well, fine. Here's my Reptilian Authenticity pass.

I for one welcome our new Furry overlords.

589 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:27:20pm

re: #582 WindUpBird

When dairy products go bad.

590 prairiefire  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:27:35pm

Well, I let the kiddos stay up for the opening ceremonies and the lighting was a bit of a let down. I'm sure there are producers screaming at techs as we speak.
Oh well, so one of the ramps/bolts didn't go up.
Still not as great as the skier without poles in Norway.

591 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:27:56pm

re: #584 laZardo

Well, fine. Here's my Reptilian Authenticity pass.

Can you use that flaming hand to help with some undercooked areas of our troll roast. I need to make sure its properly cooked before serving it.

592 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:27:59pm

re: #573 Jimmah

Haemoglobin is a single atom away from being chlorophyll.

Is that true? I'm gonna have to do some research.
It's kewl, if it's true.
*waves*

593 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:28:27pm

re: #589 Slumbering Behemoth

When dairy products go bad.

I HAVE EVERYTHING EVAN DORKIN HAS EVER DONE

I think the comics are all in boxes in my garage. Milk And Cheese! Violent foods in pleasing shapes!

You rule. :D

594 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:28:32pm

re: #587 WindUpBird

We interrupt this thread to bring you my dream car: [Link: insoc.org...]

No mounted weapons = FAIL.

595 Kruk  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:28:50pm

re: #589 Slumbering Behemoth

When dairy products go bad.

I wear the cheese. It does not wear me.

(Bonus marks to anyone who gets *that* one.)

596 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:29:17pm

re: #585 jaunte

Extended Life Milk sounds like a Moonie organization.

all hail the lactate pharoah!

597 jaunte  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:29:26pm

re: #592 Floral Giraffe
Here's a diagram:
[Link: altmed.creighton.edu...]

598 prairiefire  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:29:43pm

re: #595 Kruk

"I am the cheese" YA novel?

599 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:29:44pm

re: #594 Slumbering Behemoth

No mounted weapons = FAIL.

Those are illegal in New York!

600 Jimmah  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:29:46pm

re: #582 WindUpBird

Extended Life Milk sounds like something from the dark future.

Even more so if it was NEVER MILK TO BEGIN WITH *eerie theremin music*

British Frankenmilk is perfectly safe. Perfect for washing down a plateful of CheesyPeas.

Youtube Video
601 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:29:59pm

re: #567 Floral Giraffe

Quote:
"Then again, I regard UK 'extended life' milk with grave suspicion, so some things won't change."

OK, I'll ask. WTF is "extended life" milk.
Do they have an equivalent of the FDA?
How many have died from this product?

Nobody dies from it. It's got some weird different pastuerization process. I think you don't need to refrigerate it til it's been opened and it lasts forever. It creeps me out.
I've never seen a similar US product. I don't think it would catch on here-- people have bigger fridges, for one. (Wiki says we have it in the US but I didn't know that til just now.)

There's two kinds: UHT milk:

UHT milk has a typical shelf life of six to nine months, until opened.

!!!

And ESL milk, extended shelf life milk. Not sure how long that stuff lasts. Not as long, I think.

602 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:30:43pm

re: #600 Jimmah

British Frankenmilk is perfectly safe. Perfect for washing down a plateful of CheesyPeas.

Anything called CheesyPeas is not something I want on my monitor. o_o

603 Kruk  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:30:48pm

re: #598 prairiefire

"I am the cheese" YA novel?

No, but it's a TV show aimed at that demographic.....

604 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:30:55pm

re: #597 jaunte

Here's a diagram:
[Link: altmed.creighton.edu...]

GEEK ALERT.
I favorited that!
THANK YOU.

605 laZardo  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:31:13pm

re: #591 Dark_Falcon

Sure thing.

/although technically, it's the tail on fire.

606 prairiefire  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:31:48pm

re: #603 Kruk

"Chowder"?

607 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:32:39pm

re: #605 laZardo

Sure thing.

/although technically, it's the tail on fire.


Reminds me suddenly of one of my favorite penny arcades: Image: 20090323.jpg

608 austin_blue  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:32:56pm

re: #489 Charles

Uh huh.

It was 'YoungLibertarian92' back again, for the fourth time.

Well. He's persistent, if stupid

609 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:32:57pm

re: #576 WindUpBird

I am a single molecule away from being Lou Gramm. :D

I am several stone away from being Ezra Pound.

610 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:33:53pm

re: #593 WindUpBird

I don't have any M&C stuff, but I have a few of these comics stashed away in the garage.

611 Kruk  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:33:58pm

re: #606 prairiefire

"Chowder"?

Nope. It introduced the world to David Boreanaz......

612 RadicalModerate  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:34:41pm

re: #569 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Margarine is one molecule away from plastic.

Seriously.

Margarine, Velveeta, and Spam need to be assigned their own "food" group.

613 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:34:56pm

re: #489 Charles

I thought he smelled familiar. So eager to please-- and eager to attack people .

614 prairiefire  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:35:04pm

re: #611 Kruk

One last try for the gold, "Buffy the Vampire Slayer". (Cringes with Dread)

615 Jimmah  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:35:12pm

re: #592 Floral Giraffe

Is that true? I'm gonna have to do some research.
It's kewl, if it's true.
*waves*

Yep - just change the iron in haemoglobin to a magnesium, and you've got chlorophyll.

616 Kruk  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:35:27pm

re: #612 RadicalModerate

Margarine, Velveeta, and Spam need to be assigned their own "food" group.

The triple bypass?

617 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:35:59pm

re: #604 Floral Giraffe

GEEK ALERT.
I favorited that!
THANK YOU.

So it's true. Plants bleed when you cut them.

There is nothing left to eat, not even for vegans.

618 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:36:05pm

re: #601 iceweasel

!!!

And ESL milk, extended shelf life milk. Not sure how long that stuff lasts. Not as long, I think.

Jimmah had it right.
FRANKENMILK!
People have died from it, but the zombies took them off and ate them before humans figured it out.

619 austin_blue  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:36:07pm

re: #611 Kruk

Nope. It introduced the world to David Boreanaz...

Buffy.

620 Gus  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:36:24pm

re: #601 iceweasel

!!!

And ESL milk, extended shelf life milk. Not sure how long that stuff lasts. Not as long, I think.

ESL milk? I guess Peter Brimelow will never drink that.

//

621 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:36:37pm

re: #613 Obdicut

I thought he smelled familiar. So eager to please-- and eager to attack people .

Never trust a man who bats his eyelashes.

622 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:36:41pm

re: #605 laZardo

Sure thing.

/although technically, it's the tail on fire.

Thanks. With laZardo's help, I'm proud to serve tonight's troll roast. I've got enough soda for all, so feel to drink up.

623 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:36:53pm

re: #609 Cato the Elder

I am several stone away from being Ezra Pound.

I had to google him. He looks like he could capture souls in a tiny gem and then use them to power his tesla coils.

624 Kruk  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:37:14pm

re: #614 prairiefire

One last try for the gold, "Buffy the Vampire Slayer". (Cringes with Dread)

Bingo! There was a very strange charcter called the Cheeseman in the season 4 final.

/dork mode.

625 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:37:34pm

re: #610 Slumbering Behemoth

I don't have any M&C stuff, but I have a few of these comics stashed away in the garage.

I want that comic

626 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:38:14pm

re: #623 WindUpBird

I had to google him. He looks like he could capture souls in a tiny gem and then use them to power his tesla coils.

He was a fucking crazy fascist.

Before that, he was one of the greatest poets of the twentieth century. Still is. You can't take that away.

627 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:38:37pm

re: #614 prairiefire

One last try for the gold, "Buffy the Vampire Slayer". (Cringes with Dread)

Nothing wrong with Buffy!

628 jaunte  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:38:46pm

re: #612 RadicalModerate

Oddly enough, margarine was invented in France.

629 austin_blue  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:38:53pm

re: #612 RadicalModerate

Margarine, Velveeta, and Spam need to be assigned their own "food" group.

Ah, Velveeta!

Dog food, cat food, cheese food!

(But this from a Texan. Get a two pound block and throw in a can of Rotel Original and it makes the best Dorito chip sauce on the planet. Killer bee!)

630 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:38:59pm

re: #625 WindUpBird

I want that comic

Oh it's the BEST! Yay reid fleming!

79 cents or I piss on your flowers! /

631 Jimmah  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:38:59pm

re: #602 WindUpBird

Anything called CheesyPeas is not something I want on my monitor. o_o

That's because you want it on your plate and in your belly!

There's also a seasonal Yuletide CheesyPeas :

Youtube Video
632 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:39:19pm

re: #627 WindUpBird

Nothing wrong with Buffy!

WWBD, is always a good question to ask!
LOL!

633 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:39:26pm

re: #612 RadicalModerate

The quality of Spam has improved greatly since I was a kid.

634 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:39:33pm

re: #626 Cato the Elder

He was a fucking crazy fascist.

Before that, he was one of the greatest poets of the twentieth century. Still is. You can't take that away.

Yow! Sorta like how I can still like Guns 'n Roses even though Axl has turned into Howard Hughes?

635 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:39:54pm

re: #631 Jimmah

That's because you want it on your plate and in your belly!

There's also a seasonal Yuletide CheesyPeas :

WHAT NO :(

636 prairiefire  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:40:01pm

re: #626 Cato the Elder

Also an anti-semite. A bad influence on T.S. Eliot.

637 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:40:13pm

re: #624 Kruk

Bingo! There was a very strange charcter called the Cheeseman in the season 4 final.

/dork mode.

That was the one where some the good guys were in danger of never waking up, as I remember. Unlike most seasons of Buffy, season 4 had the big battle in the next-to-last episode, with the finale striking a menacing but quieter tone.

638 Kruk  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:40:16pm

re: #627 WindUpBird

Nothing wrong with Buffy!

Heh. I have a whole cabinet that's a shrine to Joss Whedon (Buffy, Angel, and Dollhouse DVDs.)

639 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:40:19pm

Old joke: Would we chop down trees if they could scream?

Yes, of course. Especially if they did it all the time for no good reason.

640 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:40:30pm

re: #633 Slumbering Behemoth

The quality of Spam has improved greatly since I was a kid.

It could have degraded?
///

641 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:40:31pm

re: #628 jaunte

Oddly enough, margarine was invented in France.

Wasn't it invented by Louis Homogenize?

642 BryanS  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:40:40pm

re: #617 Cato the Elder

So it's true. Plants bleed when you cut them.

There is nothing left to eat, not even for vegans.

I'm reminded of this :

EarthFirst Mourning Loss of a Tree - Crying & Screaming

Hilarious :!)

643 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:40:52pm

re: #638 Kruk

Heh. I have a whole cabinet that's a shrine to Joss Whedon (Buffy, Angel, and Dollhouse DVDs.)

No Firefly? FOR SHAME!

644 prairiefire  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:40:55pm

re: #638 Kruk

You are in good company.

645 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:41:15pm

re: #636 prairiefire

Also an anti-semite. A bad influence on T.S. Eliot.

Eliot got it from Harvard, before he ever met Pound.

646 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:41:33pm

re: #638 Kruk

Heh. I have a whole cabinet that's a shrine to Joss Whedon (Buffy, Angel, and Dollhouse DVDs.)

No Firefly?

647 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:41:48pm

re: #639 Cato the Elder

Old joke: Would we chop down trees if they could scream?

Yes, of course. Especially if they did it all the time for no good reason.

That joke was old when the Dead Sea was sick.

648 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:41:59pm

re: #641 Spare O'Lake

Wasn't it invented by Louis Homogenize?

ahahahahahah I loled


The Dyson Sphere! Conceived of in the 1960's by Freeman Sphere...

649 prairiefire  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:42:43pm

re: #645 Cato the Elder

There was definitely too much of it around in those days.

650 laZardo  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:43:09pm

re: #607 WindUpBird

Reminds me suddenly of one of my favorite penny arcades: [Link: www.penny-arcade.com...]

I still have an original Game Boy Advance (the one before the flip-up one) with a copy of Fire Red lodged in it.

With a new set of Pokemon coming out, it makes me yearn for simpler days.

Youtube Video
651 austin_blue  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:43:26pm

re: #631 Jimmah

That's because you want it on your plate and in your belly!

There's also a seasonal Yuletide CheesyPeas :


[Video]

Dude, I still have a significant problem with Mushy Peas. i know that the pommie bastards love them, but sheesh. That's nasty.

Or an acquired taste, if you prefer.

652 Kruk  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:43:36pm

re: #643 jamesfirecat

No Firefly? FOR SHAME!

My wife is getting me Firefly for my birthday, and Serenity for our anniversary. I know, because I already told her that was what I wanted :)

(Hey, she knew what she was getting into when she married me.)

653 austin_blue  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:44:07pm

re: #632 Floral Giraffe

WWBD, is always a good question to ask!
LOL!

Stake 'em!

654 Gus  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:44:41pm

re: #629 austin_blue

Ah, Velveeta!

Dog food, cat food, cheese food!

(But this from a Texan. Get a two pound block and throw in a can of Rotel Original and it makes the best Dorito chip sauce on the planet. Killer bee!)

They should rename Velveeta to Moofa. God the stuff is gross.

655 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:44:48pm

re: #652 Kruk

My wife is getting me Firefly for my birthday, and Serenity for our anniversary. I know, because I already told her that was what I wanted :)

(Hey, she knew what she was getting into when she married me.)

Then you shall be forgiven.

656 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:45:15pm

re: #650 laZardo

I still have an original Game Boy Advance (the one before the flip-up one) with a copy of Fire Red lodged in it.

With a new set of Pokemon coming out, it makes me yearn for simpler days.


[Video]

I think i missed the window for being REALLY into Pokemon, I'm in my 30's. My simpler days would be this:

Youtube Video
657 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:45:31pm

re: #651 austin_blue

Dude, I still have a significant problem with Mushy Peas. i know that the pommie bastards love them, but sheesh. That's nasty.

Or an acquired taste, if you prefer.

Try adding a little garlic and lemon juice.

658 Kruk  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:45:34pm

re: #632 Floral Giraffe

WWBD, is always a good question to ask!
LOL!

I tend to Xander's attitude to life. I laugh in the face of danger, and then hide till it goes away.

659 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:47:34pm

re: #654 Gus 802

They should rename Velveeta to Moofa. God the stuff is gross.

Moofa! Hilarious!

Hey Gus when we have an open thread I've dug up some unintentionally hilarious comments on a TeA PaRtY forum by that guy arrested in MA with the weapons.
Let's just say he was a Glenn Beck fan after all.

Something for the furries amongst us as well....

660 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:47:47pm

Okay, how big and weird does an insect have to get before you completely lose your shit?

NOT FOR PEOPLE AFRAID OF BUGS. Also, mind the volume level on your speakers.

661 austin_blue  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:49:08pm

re: #657 Cato the Elder

Try adding a little garlic and lemon juice.

Nah, it's the texture. It's just...odd. And I don't particularly like the mint.

But uncrushed peas with garlic, thyme and lemon juice? I'm there!

662 Gus  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:49:34pm

re: #659 iceweasel

Moofa! Hilarious!

Hey Gus when we have an open thread I've dug up some unintentionally hilarious comments on a TeA PaRtY forum by that guy arrested in MA with the weapons.
Let's just say he was a Glenn Beck fan after all.

Something for the furries amongst us as well...

What a surprise! Can't wait.

I haven't looked much but I'll bet he's being touted as either a hero or another "POW."

663 Jimmah  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:49:41pm

re: #651 austin_blue

Dude, I still have a significant problem with Mushy Peas. i know that the pommie bastards love them, but sheesh. That's nasty.

Or an acquired taste, if you prefer.

Oh me too. Nasty stuff. I should point out btw for those who were too scared to look that those cheesy peas videos I've posted are spoofs on the awfulness of northern english cuisine, and the kind of food products that are aimed at working class northerners. Thankfully, there is as yet no actual product as new Strawberry Flavour Squeezy Cheesy Peas or Yuletide Cheesy Peas with Added Brandy Butter. :)

664 laZardo  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:52:05pm

re: #368 Racer X

Mosquito Shot Down By a Laser


[Video]You're looking at a mosquito who got taken down mid-flight by a laser gun designed by Nathan Myhrvold. The malaria-carrying pest never saw it coming, but you can watch everything happen over and over again in this video.

The idea behind the laser is that it could be used to control mosquito populations in developing countries in hopes of reducing the number of deaths due to malaria.

That's "awesome."

665 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:52:42pm

Girls Gone Wild Syndrome.

NSFWish.

666 austin_blue  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:54:00pm

re: #659 iceweasel

Moofa! Hilarious!

Hey Gus when we have an open thread I've dug up some unintentionally hilarious comments on a TeA PaRtY forum by that guy arrested in MA with the weapons.
Let's just say he was a Glenn Beck fan after all.

Something for the furries amongst us as well...

Oh, by the way, rumor has it that Beck was fed the info on Debra Medina's Troofer campaign staff members by the Perry machine to torpedo her.

If so, smart but dirty. Beck would have never had that kind of inside info on an obscure candidate for the Texas Guv primary.

667 prairiefire  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:54:46pm

re: #665 Slumbering Behemoth

That is great!

668 laZardo  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:54:48pm

re: #656 WindUpBird

I think i missed the window for being REALLY into Pokemon, I'm in my 30's. My simpler days would be this:


[Video]

They made a TV show out of that? Huh.

I prefer the original though.

/embedding disabled

669 Gus  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:56:25pm

re: #666 austin_blue

Oh, by the way, rumor has it that Beck was fed the info on Debra Medina's Troofer campaign staff members by the Perry machine to torpedo her.

If so, smart but dirty. Beck would have never had that kind of inside info on an obscure candidate for the Texas Guv primary.

To recap. Glenn Beck takes down 911 troofer sympathizer Debra Medina.

Tomorrow on Glenn Beck, we have a special repeat guest coming in, Ron Paul.

Who also happens to be 911 troofer sympathizer.

Film at 11.

670 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:56:34pm

Trolls!
What's the matter with trolls today?!

nytol

671 limewash  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:56:47pm

re: #652 Kruk

I love firefly. Such a same it was only 12 episodes.

Sheesh this thread went by so fast.

672 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:56:50pm

Quote:
"Thankfully, there is as yet no actual product as new Strawberry Flavour Squeezy Cheesy Peas or Yuletide Cheesy Peas with Added Brandy Butter. :)"
So you say NOW....
But, they're working on it!

673 Irenicum  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:56:59pm

Mosh is the pits. I thought I smelled trolls right off the bat.

674 Buck  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:57:03pm

OT:

fricken laser zaps missile!

A high-powered laser aboard a modified Boeing Co 747 jumbo jet shot down an in-flight ballistic missile for the first time, highlighting a new class of ray guns best known from science fiction.

675 laZardo  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:57:59pm

re: #669 Gus 802

I used to like Ron Paul if only because his kookiness was a humorous break from the vitriol of regular politics.

Then it became mainstream conservatism. ):

676 Kruk  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:58:41pm

re: #671 limewash

I love firefly. Such a same it was only 12 episodes.

Sheesh this thread went by so fast.

Aye. I'll never forgive Fox for showing the episodes in such a screwed up order, and then canning it. (Makes you wonder what Joss was thinking when he went back to them for Dollhouse.)

677 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:58:47pm

re: #674 Buck

OT:

fricken laser zaps missile!

A high-powered laser aboard a modified Boeing Co 747 jumbo jet shot down an in-flight ballistic missile for the first time, highlighting a new class of ray guns best known from science fiction.

Oh Lazers, is there anything you can't do?

678 Gus  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:58:47pm

re: #675 laZardo

I used to like Ron Paul if only because his kookiness was a humorous break from the vitriol of regular politics.

Then it became mainstream conservatism. ):

Yeah, he had entertainment value.

Like Mike Gravel.

679 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:58:57pm

re: #667 prairiefire

It's one of the better (best?) GGW parodies I've seen so far.

680 BryanS  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:59:42pm

re: #674 Buck

OT:

fricken laser zaps missile!

A high-powered laser aboard a modified Boeing Co 747 jumbo jet shot down an in-flight ballistic missile for the first time, highlighting a new class of ray guns best known from science fiction.

Now that's what I call star wars style missile defense. Can we now use those graphics from the 80's used by the media to describe/mock missile defense?

681 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 9:59:47pm

Lizards ROCK!
As does Charles.
Goodnight, dear lizards.
Play nicely, or play hard.
Have a rocking good time,
either way!

682 BryanS  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:00:30pm

re: #675 laZardo

I used to like Ron Paul if only because his kookiness was a humorous break from the vitriol of regular politics.

Then it became mainstream conservatism. ):

Ehh, I don't consider him mainstream conservative. Mainstream dingbat, maybe.

683 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:01:32pm

re: #682 BryanS

Ehh, I don't consider him mainstream conservative. Mainstream dingbat, maybe.

No, you got it wrong. Ron Paulism became mainstream, not the other way round.

684 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:01:52pm

re: #676 Kruk

Aye. I'll never forgive Fox for showing the episodes in such a screwed up order, and then canning it. (Makes you wonder what Joss was thinking when he went back to them for Dollhouse.)

Well, at least Fox let him give Dollhouse a proper ending.

685 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:01:54pm

re: #666 austin_blue

Oh, by the way, rumor has it that Beck was fed the info on Debra Medina's Troofer campaign staff members by the Perry machine to torpedo her.

If so, smart but dirty. Beck would have never had that kind of inside info on an obscure candidate for the Texas Guv primary.

That reminds me I have more dirt on Median as well. Someone pay have already posted it. Apart from the troofer stuff, she believes in 'brainwashing' and Bilderbergers

You tube clips available of her on the Alex Jones show too:
Before She Was a Truther, Debra Medina Was Worried About Brainwashing and Bilderbergers

I think because the mainstream media were slow to cover the Tea Parties as anything but a ridiculous joke, there’s been a lot of overcompensating that imbues these activists with fresh, bold, out-of-nowhere political tactics. But the fact is that some people on the political fringes have made lateral moves from Alex Jones-listening or Obama birth certificate-sleuthing or Bilderberg-obsessing into the Tea Party Movement.

686 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:02:06pm

re: #673 Irenicum

Mosh is the pits.

Awesomeness.

687 Gus  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:02:09pm

re: #674 Buck

OT:

fricken laser zaps missile!

A high-powered laser aboard a modified Boeing Co 747 jumbo jet shot down an in-flight ballistic missile for the first time, highlighting a new class of ray guns best known from science fiction.

And the incoming ballistic missile was on an unknown random trajectory?

688 Jimmah  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:03:09pm

re: #672 Floral Giraffe

Quote:
"Thankfully, there is as yet no actual product as new Strawberry Flavour Squeezy Cheesy Peas or Yuletide Cheesy Peas with Added Brandy Butter. :)"
So you say NOW...
But, they're working on it!

I'm not saying it couldn't happen...we have already crossed the deep fried ice cream rubicon, after all.

689 BryanS  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:03:51pm

re: #687 Gus 802

And the incoming ballistic missile was on an unknown random trajectory?

One would presume that a laser could be shot/pulsed continuously until you hone in on and destroy the target. Very different from trying to shoot a bullet with a bullet--the way missile defense works now.

690 austin_blue  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:03:52pm

re: #669 Gus 802

To recap. Glenn Beck takes down 911 troofer sympathizer Debra Medina.

Tomorrow on Glenn Beck, we have a special repeat guest coming in, Ron Paul.

Who also happens to be 911 troofer sympathizer.

Film at 11.

Well, that's the bit, isn't it? Medina was up to 21% in the polls, almost ensuring that Goodhair and the Breck Girl (both college cheerleaders, by the way) would be in a runoff, spending scads of cash and kicking each other's guts out.

Meanwhile the likely Dem candidate, Bill White, (who is just as smart as a whip and a pragmatist, but unfortunately has a head that looks a VW bug with its doors open), would be in tall cotton. If they can get Medina down below 10%, the chance of a runoff decreases.

This is the problem with Tea Party candidates. The internal baggage is lethal.

691 BryanS  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:04:41pm

re: #683 Cato the Elder

No, you got it wrong. Ron Paulism became mainstream, not the other way round.

Not yet--he holds no real power within the Republican caucus.

692 Irenicum  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:04:51pm

re: #665 Slumbering Behemoth

You're a bad bad man. I can't believe you forced me to click that.......and watch that.

693 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:05:19pm
Stop! Stop! Stop! The idiot convention!
Which one of these words, don't you understand?
Talking to you is like clapping with one hand.

I forgot how fun those lyrics were.

694 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:06:49pm

re: #691 BryanS

Not yet--he holds no real power within the Republican caucus.

I'm not talking about him. I'm talking about all the little Ron Pauls running around at Tea Parties. The only future the GOP has at the moment.

Or have you been on sabbatical?

695 prairiefire  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:07:22pm

re: #679 Slumbering Behemoth

A cautionary tale. I think the intervention guy is a gay friend that they let see their boobs.

696 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:07:27pm

re: #689 BryanS

One would presume that a laser could be shot/pulsed continuously until you hone in on and destroy the target. Very different from trying to shoot a bullet with a bullet--the way missile defense works now.

"Home in", you mean?

697 Buck  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:08:04pm

re: #687 Gus 802

And the incoming ballistic missile was on an unknown random trajectory?

Gets it on launch, and tracks it from there.

A short-range ballistic missile was launched from an at-sea mobile launch platform off Point Mugu on the central California coast, the agency said.
Within seconds, the Airborne Laser used on board sensors to detect the missile, then a low-energy laser to track it.
After firing another laser to measure and compensate for atmospheric disturbance, on went its megawatt-class high-energy laser, "heating the boosting ballistic missile to critical structural failure," the agency said.
The engagement took place within two minutes of the target missile's launch while its rocket motors were still thrusting, the agency said.

698 austin_blue  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:08:11pm

re: #687 Gus 802

And the incoming ballistic missile was on an unknown random trajectory?

Ack! A cogent question! (I will bet the answer is no.)

699 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:08:14pm

re: #692 Irenicum

The real question here is, were you titillated?

700 Gus  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:08:47pm

re: #690 austin_blue

Well, that's the bit, isn't it? Medina was up to 21% in the polls, almost ensuring that Goodhair and the Breck Girl (both college cheerleaders, by the way) would be in a runoff, spending scads of cash and kicking each other's guts out.

Meanwhile the likely Dem candidate, Bill White, (who is just as smart as a whip and a pragmatist, but unfortunately has a head that looks a VW bug with its doors open), would be in tall cotton. If they can get Medina down below 10%, the chance of a runoff decreases.

This is the problem with Tea Party candidates. The internal baggage is lethal.

I've never seen a head compared to a VW Bug. Although, I've called people "sneaker face" before. Just from the shape.

It's true about the Tea Party candidates. Most of them are complete unknowns and have either zero experience or unknown background. There's no vetting being done since they all fall over when they listen to their "inspiring speeches." All they have to do is use any of the following: a) mention liberty; b) mention taxes; c) talk about the Constitution or "our founding fathers"; d) babble on about socialism and "Obama care."

701 Irenicum  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:09:15pm

re: #699 Slumbering Behemoth

No. Just keeping abreast of the situation.

702 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:09:16pm

re: #699 Slumbering Behemoth

The real question here is, were you titillated?

Titivated.

703 Gus  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:09:32pm

re: #697 Buck

Which means they had their tracking systems pointing straight at Point Mugu from launch. I'm sure they even had the launch time.

704 Racer X  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:10:19pm

re: #703 Gus 802

Which means they had their tracking systems pointing straight at Point Mugu from launch. I'm sure they even had the launch time.

Baby steps.

705 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:10:21pm

re: #690 austin_blue

Well, that's the bit, isn't it? Medina was up to 21% in the polls, almost ensuring that Goodhair and the Breck Girl (both college cheerleaders, by the way) would be in a runoff, spending scads of cash and kicking each other's guts out.

Meanwhile the likely Dem candidate, Bill White, (who is just as smart as a whip and a pragmatist, but unfortunately has a head that looks a VW bug with its doors open), would be in tall cotton. If they can get Medina down below 10%, the chance of a runoff decreases.

This is the problem with Tea Party candidates. The internal baggage is lethal.

Well, at least the loon got dropped. Now, if only Glen Beck would go after Luap Nor for Troofing. He won't, but its nice to imagine.

706 laZardo  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:11:41pm

re: #700 Gus 802

It's sad that they contaminated the party of Lincoln, Coolidge and Eisenhower the way they did. On the other hand they're all on one proverbial boat that'll be nice and easy to sink later this year.

707 BryanS  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:12:34pm

re: #694 Cato the Elder

I'm not talking about him. I'm talking about all the little Ron Pauls running around at Tea Parties. The only future the GOP has at the moment.

Or have you been on sabbatical?

Ahhh...see I was replying to a post about Ron Paul the person, not Ron Paul the ism .

That said, I don't think the Tea Party has won yet. We'll see in due time whether it is a flash in the pan. I think really the phenomena is more akin to Perotism that has been co-opted by loonies. Once the deficit issue is handled and the economy is on stronger footing again, the crazy will die down.

708 Irenicum  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:12:46pm

re: #699 Slumbering Behemoth

Though I will say it was Onion worthy.

709 austin_blue  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:13:01pm

re: #697 Buck

Oh. Then it is useless for ICBMs or SLBMs. It's just useful if the Iranians or North Koreans drive a boat within 200 miles of LA and fire a modified SCUD off of a freighter.

NTTAWWT.

710 Buck  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:13:32pm

re: #703 Gus 802

Which means they had their tracking systems pointing straight at Point Mugu from launch. I'm sure they even had the launch time.

Maybe... but what about test did you not understand. You think it is reasonable to only announce it when it is perfect? They are testing... and at this stage... the test was successful.

Wanna fight about it?

711 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:13:47pm

re: #695 prairiefire

Further cautionary tale: Pretending to be gay just to get a look at some boobs is counter-productive to getting laid. Unless you can successfully parlay that into a "You may be the only woman sexy enough to "turn" me straight" maneuver.

I prefer to play it straight.

712 Irenicum  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:13:50pm

re: #707 BryanS

From your lips to God's ears.

713 Gus  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:13:54pm

re: #704 Racer X

Baby steps.

Sure. But I doubt there will ever be 100% accuracy. This test is no proving point other than "it works." If ever operational it would be far far less than 100%. I also wonder about the operational feasibility of having 747s up in the sky 24/7 much like SAC was in the air during the Cold War.

714 BryanS  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:14:01pm

re: #696 Cato the Elder

"Home in", you mean?

[Link: www.merriam-webster.com...]

"2 : to make more acute, intense, or effective"

715 Gus  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:14:14pm

re: #710 Buck

Maybe... but what about test did you not understand. You think it is reasonable to only announce it when it is perfect? They are testing... and at this stage... the test was successful.

Wanna fight about it?

What are we in 3rd grade?

716 Buck  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:14:45pm

re: #709 austin_blue

Oh. Then it is useless for ICBMs or SLBMs. It's just useful if the Iranians or North Koreans drive a boat within 200 miles of LA and fire a modified SCUD off of a freighter.

NTTAWWT.

Right... this is the final product, and you have figured it all out that it is useless.


Man when did you get so jaded?

717 Irenicum  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:15:20pm

re: #711 Slumbering Behemoth

Ah the politics of sex!

718 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:16:20pm

re: #709 austin_blue

Oh. Then it is useless for ICBMs or SLBMs. It's just useful if the Iranians or North Koreans drive a boat within 200 miles of LA and fire a modified SCUD off of a freighter.

NTTAWWT.

As of right now, its only useful against shorter ranged systems. But it can be improved. It took heavy bombers many generations to produce the B-52, after all.

719 austin_blue  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:16:48pm

re: #700 Gus 802

I've never seen a head compared to a VW Bug. Although, I've called people "sneaker face" before. Just from the shape.

It's true about the Tea Party candidates. Most of them are complete unknowns and have either zero experience or unknown background. There's no vetting being done since they all fall over when they listen to their "inspiring speeches." All they have to do is use any of the following: a) mention liberty; b) mention taxes; c) talk about the Constitution or "our founding fathers"; d) babble on about socialism and "Obama care."

Here he is in all of his glory!

Image: bill-white.jpg

Like I say. An unfortunate head.

720 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:16:54pm

re: #713 Gus 802

Sure. But I doubt there will ever be 100% accuracy. This test is no proving point other than "it works." If ever operational it would be far far less than 100%. I also wonder about the operational feasibility of having 747s up in the sky 24/7 much like SAC was in the air during the Cold War.

Does not apply.

A dove homes in on a dovecote. A missile homes in on its target.

Nothing "hones in on" anything.

721 BryanS  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:17:22pm

re: #712 Irenicum

From your lips to God's ears.

God? Who's this god you refer to, and what does she have to do with Ron Paul?

722 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:18:39pm

re: #714 BryanS

[Link: www.merriam-webster.com...]

"2 : to make more acute, intense, or effective"

Sorry, Gus. Hit the wrong comment.

BryanS:

Does not apply.

A dove homes in on a dovecote. A missile homes in on its target.

Nothing "hones in on" anything.

723 prairiefire  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:18:47pm

re: #711 Slumbering Behemoth

Further cautionary tale: Pretending to be gay just to get a look at some boobs is counter-productive to getting laid. Unless you can successfully parlay that into a "You may be the only woman sexy enough to "turn" me straight" maneuver.

I prefer to play it straight.

Mental Jutitsu

OK, now I can turn the computer back off. Night, Lizards

724 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:19:02pm

re: #701 Irenicum

No. Just keeping abreast of the situation.

At least you are being up front about it.

/not such a good boob pun

725 Gus  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:19:10pm

re: #719 austin_blue

Here he is in all of his glory!

[Link: www.houstontx.gov...]

Like I say. An unfortunate head.

Ah, I see. It's more like a top view of a Beetle.

726 Gus  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:19:33pm

re: #722 Cato the Elder

Sorry, Gus. Hit the wrong comment.

BryanS:

Does not apply.

A dove homes in on a dovecote. A missile homes in on its target.

Nothing "hones in on" anything.

Thanks Cato. I can stop scratching my head now. ;)

727 Racer X  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:20:00pm

re: #713 Gus 802

Sure. But I doubt there will ever be 100% accuracy. This test is no proving point other than "it works." If ever operational it would be far far less than 100%. I also wonder about the operational feasibility of having 747s up in the sky 24/7 much like SAC was in the air during the Cold War.

Yeah you're right. We should just forget the whole idea.

/

728 Buck  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:20:24pm

re: #715 Gus 802

What are we in 3rd grade?

You are so quick to put this test down, and come to a conclusion.

I could see you standing and watching the Wright brothers and pointing out how it will never carry passengers...

729 Gus  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:20:51pm

Here we go again.

730 Irenicum  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:20:53pm

re: #724 Slumbering Behemoth

Headlights! All I saw were headlights! Ah crap, they're actually headlights. I really need to see Dumb and Dumber again.

731 austin_blue  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:21:06pm

re: #716 Buck

Right... this is the final product, and you have figured it all out that it is useless.

Man when did you get so jaded?

Click my nic. I know what the threats are from personal experience.

An over-the-horizon launch can't be tracked by any airborne platform. Can't be done. What are you going to do with a MIRV'd missile package that includes 6 warheads and four decoys?

Answer: You are going to die.

732 Gus  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:21:27pm

re: #727 Racer X

Yeah you're right. We should just forget the whole idea.

/

Yeah, it should be canceled! Wanna fight about it?

//

733 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:21:40pm

And God damn it, "phenomena" is plural.

Either I go to bed now or Charles posts a new thread and we all start drinking in earnest.

734 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:21:55pm

re: #717 Irenicum

Ah the politics of sex!

The two oldest professions have been forever intertwined since the beginning of time.

735 Irenicum  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:22:11pm

re: #724 Slumbering Behemoth

Obviously some of these girls never watched Twin Peaks.

736 Racer X  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:22:59pm

re: #731 austin_blue

Click my nic. I know what the threats are from personal experience.

An over-the-horizon launch can't be tracked by any airborne platform. Can't be done. What are you going to do with a MIRV'd missile package that includes 6 warheads and four decoys?

Answer: You are going to die.

What if this test leads to the next test - that is longer range? and that test goes to the next step - satellite based? and we get smarter stronger better faster. Deadlier.

Then we don't die.

The other guy does.

737 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:23:16pm

re: #735 Irenicum

Obviously some of these girls never watched Twin Peaks.

Nor do they know what the Grand Tetons are all about.

738 Racer X  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:23:26pm

re: #732 Gus 802

Yeah, it should be canceled! Wanna fight about it?

//

I thought we were!

;-)

739 Irenicum  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:23:31pm

re: #733 Cato the Elder

irregardless?

740 BryanS  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:23:50pm

re: #720 Cato the Elder

Does not apply.


A dove homes in on a dovecote. A missile homes in on its target.

Nothing "hones in on" anything.


from [Link: www.merriam-webster.com...]


Main Entry: hone in
Function: intransitive verb
Etymology: alteration of home in
Date: 1965

: to move toward or focus attention on an objective (looking back for the ball honing in — George Plimpton) (a missile honing in on its target — Bob Greene) (hones in on the plights and victories of the common man — Lisa Russell)
usage The few commentators who have noticed hone in consider it to be a mistake for home in. It may have arisen from home in by the weakening of the m sound to n or may perhaps simply be due to the influence of hone. Though it seems to have established itself in American English (and mention in a British usage book suggests it is used in British English too), your use of it especially in writing is likely to be called a mistake. Home in or in figurative use zero in does nicely

741 Irenicum  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:24:47pm

Now if we could just combine girls gone wild and long range missiles this thread will get really fun!

742 Buck  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:24:55pm

re: #731 austin_blue

Click my nic. I know what the threats are from personal experience.

An over-the-horizon launch can't be tracked by any airborne platform. Can't be done. What are you going to do with a MIRV'd missile package that includes 6 warheads and four decoys?

Answer: You are going to die.

If you can get it during launch, the Mirvs will still be in the warhead. And you might be surprised what they will do from satellites in 30 years.

743 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:25:15pm

re: #740 BryanS

from [Link: www.merriam-webster.com...]

Main Entry: hone in
Function: intransitive verb
Etymology: alteration of home in
Date: 1965

: to move toward or focus attention on an objective (looking back for the ball honing in — George Plimpton) (a missile honing in on its target — Bob Greene) (hones in on the plights and victories of the common man — Lisa Russell)
usage The few commentators who have noticed hone in consider it to be a mistake for home in. It may have arisen from home in by the weakening of the m sound to n or may perhaps simply be due to the influence of hone. Though it seems to have established itself in American English (and mention in a British usage book suggests it is used in British English too), your use of it especially in writing is likely to be called a mistake. Home in or in figurative use zero in does nicely

What part of "mistake" do you not understand?

744 Racer X  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:25:39pm

re: #741 Irenicum

Now if we could just combine girls gone wild and long range missiles this thread will get really fun!

Googling now!

745 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:25:58pm

re: #735 Irenicum

You have a rack full of boob puns, I see.

746 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:26:03pm

re: #742 Buck

If you can get it during launch, the Mirvs will still be in the warhead. And you might be surprised what they will do from satellites in 30 years.

By which time we'll all be dead of heat exhaustion.

747 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:26:26pm

re: #742 Buck

If you can get it during launch, the Mirvs will still be in the warhead. And you might be surprised what they will do from satellites in 30 years.

Ion cannon uplink established.

748 Gus  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:26:30pm

re: #738 Racer X

I thought we were!

;-)

Nah, I was just being cynical about this test. I've seen these test conducted before over the news. The second to last one failed. I believe more in preemptive strikes if the threat becomes that high -- yes I'm alluding to Iran. For now I don't see much of a threat if any from China or Russia like we did when we were young.

749 BryanS  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:27:34pm

re: #743 Cato the Elder

What part of "mistake" do you not understand?

The part where you are wrong and I am not.

750 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:27:37pm

re: #748 Gus 802

Nah, I was just being cynical about this test. I've seen these test conducted before over the news. The second to last one failed. I believe more in preemptive strikes if the threat becomes that high -- yes I'm alluding to Iran. For now I don't see much of a threat if any from China or Russia like we did when we were young.


Does Iran have missiles with the range to reach us?

751 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:27:44pm

re: #733 Cato the Elder

And God damn it, "phenomena" is plural.

Either I go to bed now or Charles posts a new thread and we all start drinking in earnest.

What about 'hopefully'? I know there are stringent rules about that and I'm pretty sure I violate them all the time.

752 Gus  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:28:05pm

re: #750 jamesfirecat

Does Iran have missiles with the range to reach us?

No. North Korea can barely reach Hawaii.

753 laZardo  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:28:30pm

re: #745 Slumbering Behemoth

You have a rack full of boob puns, I see.

It's very top heavy.

754 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:29:14pm

I think it's time to hone in on the singular phenomena of girls going wild over twinned peaks when all guys want is to snatch Victoria's secret from the mountain of Venus.

755 Gus  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:29:39pm

re: #746 Cato the Elder

By which time we'll all be dead of heat exhaustion.

I hope in 30 years the world won't have to deal with threat of ICBMs but you know those humans.

756 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:30:32pm

re: #749 BryanS

Oh dude. Hahahah! HA!

757 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:30:54pm

re: #751 iceweasel

What about 'hopefully'? I know there are stringent rules about that and I'm pretty sure I violate them all the time.

Thankfully I stopped worrying about that right after my last infinitive split off a dangling participle.

758 Irenicum  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:31:48pm

re: #745 Slumbering Behemoth

Call me a jughead.

759 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:32:15pm

re: #753 laZardo

It's very top heavy.

It does seem to have ballooned up quite a bit.

760 Irenicum  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:32:32pm

re: #757 Cato the Elder

You know, in some states that's illegal.

761 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:32:54pm

re: #747 jamesfirecat

Ion cannon uplink established.

Not yet. Varek Raith isn't here yet.

762 austin_blue  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:33:25pm

re: #718 Dark_Falcon

As of right now, its only useful against shorter ranged systems. But it can be improved. It took heavy bombers many generations to produce the B-52, after all.

Yes, but the first Buff entered the AF inventory in 1955, 52 years after the first flight at Kitty Hawk and 55 years ago.

Perspective, my man. Atmospheric bombers are one thing. Hypersonic MIRVs are something else entirely. Tough nuts to crack!

763 Irenicum  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:33:31pm

re: #759 Slumbering Behemoth

That's the problem with living in silicon valley.

764 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:33:38pm

re: #749 BryanS

The part where you are wrong and I am not.

"Hone in" is ignorant twaddle. Your own usage note from your own chosen dictionary says so.

But do carry on. It's fun and no one is talking about anything of significance at the moment.

765 Racer X  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:34:03pm

Chinese Breast Implants Recalled

Youtube Video
766 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:34:59pm

re: #757 Cato the Elder

Thankfully I stopped worrying about that right after my last infinitive split off a dangling participle.

Good. I'm not worried about 'hopefully', dangling participles, ending sentences with a preposition, splitting infinitives, or double genitives.

I guess for some sorts of writing I might worry about 2, 3, and 5, but not here.

767 laZardo  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:35:18pm

re: #759 Slumbering Behemoth

It does seem to have ballooned up quite a bit.

That must mean most of it's fake though.

768 Irenicum  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:35:21pm

re: #764 Cato the Elder

Yeah. What a boob. Now back to the important stuff!

769 Irenicum  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:37:29pm

re: #765 Racer X

Goodness! I'm NOT clicking on that! I'm having flashbacks to all those old Japanese monster movies! Boobzilla attacks!

770 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:37:32pm

re: #765 Racer X

Holy shit, dude.

Speaking of recalls, check out my new Toyota keyboaaa.aaa.aaa.aaaa.aaa.aaa.aaa.aaa.aaa.aaa.aaa.aaa.aaa.aaa.aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

771 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:39:14pm

T.S. Eliot quote for the boob thread:

Grishkin is nice: her Russian eye
Is underlined for emphasis;
Uncorseted, her friendly bust
Gives promise of pneumatic bliss.

772 BryanS  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:39:19pm

re: #764 Cato the Elder

"Hone in" is ignorant twaddle. Your own usage note from your own chosen dictionary says so.

But do carry on. It's fun and no one is talking about anything of significance at the moment.

Snootiness does not make your assertion more true. Language doesn't change? Ever?

Let's look at the NY Times--certainly it is supposed of be an example of proper writing.

[Link: www.google.com...]


Well what do we see? Apparently the first couple results are quotes form the president--well, I guess your claim to it's usage being twaddle does fit with the tripe we're fed from Obama from time to time.

Almost all the 124 results look to use the phrase in the way I do.

Agreed, it's a silly thing to argue about, but you were being a language nazi.

773 Irenicum  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:39:36pm

re: #770 Slumbering Behemoth

OK, I admit it. I clicked. Kaboom!

774 austin_blue  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:40:54pm

re: #736 Racer X

What if this test leads to the next test - that is longer range? and that test goes to the next step - satellite based? and we get smarter stronger better faster. Deadlier.

Then we don't die.

The other guy does.

You assume that the only nuclear threat is from a launch platform. If *I* was an individual who wanted to detonate a device in the US, I would route it through Kuala Lampur of Djakarta on one these:

Image: Container_ship.jpg

Adios!

775 Irenicum  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:40:56pm

re: #772 BryanS

Nazi! Drink!

776 Racer X  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:41:41pm

re: #770 Slumbering Behemoth

I saw a sign on the freeway today.

Runaway Toyota Ramp ahead.

777 Irenicum  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:42:05pm

re: #775 Irenicum

Explanatory note: first use of Nazi in thread, thus necessitating a drinking game.

778 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:42:49pm

re: #772 BryanS

I am a language proconsul. A marble bust. You can hone your razor on me.

779 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:43:06pm

re: #771 Cato the Elder

T.S. Eliot quote for the boob thread:

Grishkin is nice: her Russian eye
Is underlined for emphasis;
Uncorseted, her friendly bust
Gives promise of pneumatic bliss.

Can't think of an Eliot boob quote, but here's some Robert Herrick:
Upon Julia's Clothes:
Whenas in silks my Julia goes,
Then, then, methinks, how sweetly flows
That liquefaction of her clothes.

Next, when I cast mine eyes and see
That brave vibration each way free;
—O how that glittering taketh me!

780 BryanS  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:43:18pm

re: #777 Irenicum

Explanatory note: first use of Nazi in thread, thus necessitating a drinking game.

Ahh, what the heck. It's Friday night anyway. And you drew the lucky 777 post--that mean you get to chug?

781 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:43:19pm

re: #762 austin_blue

Yes, but the first Buff entered the AF inventory in 1955, 52 years after the first flight at Kitty Hawk and 55 years ago.

Perspective, my man. Atmospheric bombers are one thing. Hypersonic MIRVs are something else entirely. Tough nuts to crack!

Still, this laser tech is worth trying. It might not work, but it should be given a chance. Even just being able to knock down shorter ranged stuff might be use in preventing an attack by Iran. Sending laser equipped jets over there in the event of a crisis might save lives.

782 austin_blue  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:44:25pm

re: #742 Buck

If you can get it during launch, the Mirvs will still be in the warhead. And you might be surprised what they will do from satellites in 30 years.

Ack! Agreed about the satellites, but an airborne laser platform for ICBMs or SLBMs? No chance. Their stand-off capacity makes them unstoppable by that tech.

783 Irenicum  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:45:31pm

re: #780 BryanS

Chugging has commenced.

784 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:45:54pm

re: #779 iceweasel

Can't think of an Eliot boob quote, but here's some Robert Herrick:
Upon Julia's Clothes:
Whenas in silks my Julia goes,
Then, then, methinks, how sweetly flows
That liquefaction of her clothes.

Next, when I cast mine eyes and see
That brave vibration each way free;
—O how that glittering taketh me!

Is that meant to be as graphic as it seems to be?

785 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:46:13pm

re: #772 BryanS

Let's look at the NY Times--certainly it is supposed of be an example of proper writing.

Sez you.

I abandoned seeing them in that role when they started printing "millenniums" for "millennia".

What's next? Phenomenons?

786 Racer X  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:47:00pm

I guess I didn't know.

Youtube Video

Get busy.

787 austin_blue  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:47:00pm

re: #774 austin_blue

You assume that the only nuclear threat is from a launch platform. If *I* was an individual who wanted to detonate a device in the US, I would route it through Kuala Lampur of Djakarta on one these:

[Link: www.mineralstrader.com...]

Adios!

Sheesh. "or"

PIMF

788 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:47:09pm

re: #784 Dark_Falcon

Is that meant to be as graphic as it seems to be?

More so.

789 Irenicum  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:47:12pm

re: #780 BryanS

At least I didn't get to have the 666 post, then I'd have some serious theological difficulty!

790 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:48:31pm

re: #777 Irenicum

Explanatory note: first use of Nazi in thread, thus necessitating a drinking game.

Actually, RacerX had "first use" by default of a link he posted upthread.

I have been playing my favorite drinking game since then.

791 Gus  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:49:13pm

re: #782 austin_blue

Ack! Agreed about the satellites, but an airborne laser platform for ICBMs or SLBMs? No chance. Their stand-off capacity makes them unstoppable by that tech.

Just a note but this test was just for the boost phase of the rocket. I don't know about the portability of the device but I doubt it would fit on an F-16 or F-22. Again that means knowing when the launch would occur which would mean alerting a 747 to fly within firing range of the launching missiles and knowing the exact location of each rocket. If you have 2 dozen simultaneous launches going on that would mean either 24 747s or being able to hit each target from one 747 laser platform.

Good luck.

792 BryanS  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:49:36pm

re: #785 Cato the Elder

Sez you.

I abandoned seeing them in that role when they started printing "millenniums" for "millennia".

What's next? Phenomenons?

Heh. Now that does move beyond colloquialism and into absurdity.

793 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:49:44pm

re: #784 Dark_Falcon

Is that meant to be as graphic as it seems to be?

O yes. Can't beat the 17th century for smut, really.
Check out John Wilmot, Earl of Rochester sometime.
I give you, A Ramble in St James' Park!

Much wine had passed, with grave discourse
Of who fucks who, and who does worse
(Such as you usually do hear
From those that diet at the Bear),
When I, who still take care to see 5
Drunkenness relieved by lechery,
Weent out into St. James's Park
To cool my head and fire my heart.


Our filters here would trap it if I posted more.

794 Irenicum  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:50:13pm

re: #779 iceweasel

I will never see "liquefaction" the same way again.

795 austin_blue  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:50:16pm

re: #791 Gus 802

Just a note but this test was just for the boost phase of the rocket. I don't know about the portability of the device but I doubt it would fit on an F-16 or F-22. Again that means knowing when the launch would occur which would mean alerting a 747 to fly within firing range of the launching missiles and knowing the exact location of each rocket. If you have 2 dozen simultaneous launches going on that would mean either 24 747s or being able to hit each target from one 747 laser platform.

Good luck.

Exactly. And you are not counting MIRVs.

796 Gus  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:52:07pm

re: #795 austin_blue

Exactly. And you are not counting MIRVs.

And mobile launch platforms that can cover 1000s of square miles and be stationed literally anywhere.

797 laZardo  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:53:18pm

Open thread, making it my cue to go get a drink. :3

798 Irenicum  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:53:19pm

re: #785 Cato the Elder

I'm suddenly having a Muppet moment.

799 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:53:34pm

re: #794 Irenicum

I will never see "liquefaction" the same way again.

Heh. That reminds me of another of his.
The Imperfect Enjoyment

800 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:53:48pm

re: #785 Cato the Elder

What's next? Phenomenons?

Doot-doo-da-doo-doo!

801 Silvergirl  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:54:26pm

Home and hone.

As a kid I ate ice cream combs. I thought that's what my brothers and sisters were saying, but finally I noticed they were snickering and asking, "Oh, so you want an ice cream comb?" I think I was 11 or 12 when I was finally corrected. I dint no no better.

802 BryanS  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:54:28pm

re: #798 Irenicum

I'm suddenly having a Muppet moment.

Love that old clip .

803 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:56:09pm

re: #798 Irenicum

Beat me by twenty-nine seconds!

804 Irenicum  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:57:14pm

re: #790 Slumbering Behemoth

Hey man your clock won't flush!

805 simoom  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:57:15pm

re: #294 albusteve

...yiu have not made a case at all for hate crimes, neither has Jimmah or anyone else here...

Multiple Lizards have put forward reasonable rationales for hate crimes legislation, you just disagree with them.

IMO it is recognition that a crime perpetrated against an individual based on bias toward the group they are a member of causes additional harm. Not just to that individual, but also to the group and even to the cohesion of a community / society. It is a greater punishment for a greater harm.

806 austin_blue  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 10:58:47pm

re: #805 simoom

Multiple Lizards have put forward reasonable rationales for hate crimes legislation, you just disagree with them.

IMO it is recognition that a crime perpetrated against an individual based on bias toward the group they are a member of causes additional harm. Not just to that individual, but also to the group and even to the cohesion of a community / society. It is a greater punishment for a greater harm.

Well said.

807 Irenicum  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 11:01:22pm

re: #799 iceweasel

Wow, hot stuff!

808 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 11:02:21pm

re: #793 iceweasel

Our filters here would trap it if I posted more.

Yowza! Thanks for that, and for the explanation. I thought Herrick was being graphic, but its always best to ask. It keeps the taste of foot away from one's tongue.

809 Irenicum  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 11:04:04pm

re: #805 simoom

Spot on.

810 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 11:06:34pm

re: #793 iceweasel

Here's one where every second word almost has a double meaning:

My Thing is My Own

I, a tender young maid, have been courted by many
Of all sorts and trades as ever was any.
A spruce haberdasher first spake to me fair
But I would have nothing to do with small ware.

chorus: My thing is my own, and I'll keep it so still
Yet other young lasses may do as they will.

A sweet scented courtier did give me a kiss,
And promis'd me mountains if I would be his,
But I'll not believe him, for it is too true,
Some courtiers do promise much more than they do.

A fine Man of Law did come out of the Strand,
To plead his own case with his fee in his hand;
He made a brave motion but that would not do,
For I did dismiss him and nonsuit him too.

Next came a young fellow, a notable spark,
(With green bag and inkhorn, a Justice's clerk)
He pull'd out his warrant to make all appear,
But I sent him away with a flea in his ear.

A Master of Musick came with an intent,
To give me a lesson on my instrument,
I thank'd him for nohing, but bid him be gone,
For my little fiddle should not be plaid on.

An Usurer came with abundance of cash,
But I had no mind to come under his lash,
He profer'd me jewels, and great store of gold,
But I would not mortgage my little Free-hold.

[et cetera]

811 BryanS  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 11:07:43pm

re: #805 simoom

Multiple Lizards have put forward reasonable rationales for hate crimes legislation, you just disagree with them.

IMO it is recognition that a crime perpetrated against an individual based on bias toward the group they are a member of causes additional harm. Not just to that individual, but also to the group and even to the cohesion of a community / society. It is a greater punishment for a greater harm.

The sentencing should be where the facts of the crime are taken into account--including the motivations for the crime. That said, I understand why people want hate crimes to be codified, since trusting judges' discretion doesn't always work well.

812 Irenicum  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 11:07:50pm

Two days of poetry in a row! Damn I love this place!

813 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 11:08:49pm

re: #810 Cato the Elder

Here's one where every second word almost has a double meaning:

[et cetera]

Good stuff, Cato. Is it original?

814 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 11:10:13pm

re: #810 Cato the Elder

Sung to the tune of "Lillabullero", by the way, which itself was at one time enough to get you hanged in England.

815 Irenicum  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 11:12:54pm

Ah. The overnight thread has arrived. Nite all!

816 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 11:21:05pm

re: #813 Dark_Falcon

Good stuff, Cato. Is it original?

To the bawd who wrote it.

You can hear a fine rendition on "The Art of the Bawdy Song" by the Baltimore Consort.

817 Flavia  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 11:24:00pm

re: #171 HoosierHoops

Who the Hell came up with idea for the Olympics tonight to have the Native Americans dancing around with hula hoops on?

Maybe the Host Nations themselves??
[Link: images.google.com...]

Are you serious? So Ok everybody knew it was going to go bad when they got tangled up on Live TV...That was funny.. But who came up with the hula hoops routine? Fire that dude..

I sure hope you are joking, here.

If I was an America Indian tonight I'd be trying to figure a way to go all Avatar on Canada tonight...

Why? Because Canada is recognizing it's original inhabitants, and we Americans aren't doing as well to ours?

You don't put dancing Indians on stage with hula hoops on to celebrate your diversity during the Olympics...

You do if one of your First Nations does that.

Who the hell hires these idiots?

My guess is that you are either not kidding, or really bad at humor. I'm hoping it's the 2nd.

818 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 11:24:12pm

re: #816 Cato the Elder

To the bawd who wrote it.

You can hear a fine rendition on "The Art of the Bawdy Song" by the Baltimore Consort.

Cool, thank you.

819 ryannon  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 1:06:02am

re: #128 webevintage

I though that the main reason for hate crime laws is that it gives federal prosecutors a tool to go after folks who commit a crime against someone because they are Jewish or Gay or black or whatever and the local authorities either refuse to press charges for bigoted reasons or a jury thinks that gays deserve what they get and let a murderer go free.

Warning: extremely graphic image.

Emmett Till. Fourteen years old. His mother insisted an open casket funeral. In the subsequent trail, an all-white all-male jury acquitted defendants in 67 minutes. One juror said, "If we hadn't stopped to drink pop, it wouldn't have taken us that long."

Read the story here

820 ryannon  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 1:07:33am

re: #819 ryannon

erratum: trial.

821 Kruk  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 1:33:42am

I just posted this in the overnight thread, but for those who think what happened to Emmett Till is safely in the past:

[Link: readingeagle.com...]

Kill a man, and get out of jail in six months or less. Jaysus.

822 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 2:20:44am

re: #294 albusteve

so what?...you blather so much I generally scroll past you...yiu have not made a case at all for hate crimes, neither has Jimmah or anyone else here...it's just perpetual questions, or in Jimmahs case, a revelation to a higher order he cannot explain...it's all bullshit, made up for talkers and question askers, and elitists nuancers...there is no such thing as a hate crime...you are all trying to make pizza pie out of horse shit

Hilariously downdinged for being incoherent and impotent.

823 iceweasel  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 2:22:44am

re: #822 windupbird

Hilariously downdinged for being incoherent and impotent.

Updinged, with hilarity, for being hilarious and apposite. :)

824 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 2:27:49am

re: #823 iceweasel

Updinged, with hilarity, for being hilarious and apposite. :)

I come back from this awesome bar in Portland where they have like six dozen Belgian and German heavy ales and doublebocks on their menu, and I come home feeling all great, and then I read that! Man, he owes me dinner for having to wade through that silliness :D

825 Kruk  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 2:28:40am

Heh. Updinged just for using the word "apposite". :)

826 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 2:36:16am

re: #825 Kruk

I had to google that! :D

827 Kruk  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 2:43:46am

re: #826 WindUpBird

I had to google that! :D

Heh. Be carefull with that. There's a (probably apocryphal) story about Bill Clinton. As a grade school student, he was looking for a fancier alternative to the word "tear", and found "lacerate". He handed in his essay with the following:

"He was so upset he had lacerates running down his face." :D

828 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 5:51:50am

re: #553 Jimmah

Here in the UK, I get criticised for my 'Americanisms'. No idea what they are basing that kind of jive-talk on but I think it's funny - awesome, in fact.

Just tell 'em you can't help being a hep-cat, daddy-O.

829 iceweasel  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 5:54:27am

re: #828 The Sanity Inspector

Just tell 'em you can't help being a hep-cat, daddy-O.

Any more questions about treason, or any objections to hatecrimes legislation, Daddy-O?

830 Vambo  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 5:58:20am

This reminds me of when Pat Robertson how small the number of gay people are in this country (they're "only 1% of the population at the most!"), therefore they deserve no respect.

831 ryannon  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 6:46:43am

re: #821 Kruk

I just posted this in the overnight thread, but for those who think what happened to Emmett Till is safely in the past:

[Link: readingeagle.com...]

Kill a man, and get out of jail in six months or less. Jaysus.

If I understand the back-and-forth upthread, there are people here who apparently think that what happened to Emmett Till - tortured to death at fourteen years old for allegedly whistling at a white woman - was not a hate crime.

The mind boggles at such perverse stupidity.

832 Sacred Plants  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 9:54:16am

Ah! A fence.

833 kellygrrrl  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:11:00am

and Kidnapping Laws are a conspiracy to jail Baptist Missionaries?

834 celticdragon  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:54:14am

re: #25 Mosh


Should someone who burns a cross on a black person's lawn get the same penalty as someone who burns a barrel of trash on a black person's lawn?

Yes.

Bullshit! You know perfectly damned well that a cross burning is a death threat!

Hate crimes laws reflect the obvious fact that not all crimes are equal. A guy killed in a mugging is just as dead as a guy shot by terrorists, but they are not the same thing, and you know that as well. Hate crimes are a form of domestic terrorism, and they are an attack on a society. Motive is always a factor in criminal cases, and the motive to terrorize a minority and make them flee of not participate in society is different from a random criminal occurence.

835 Vambo  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 1:24:47pm

well, I missed this thread last night, but it looks like we have some folks here who follow the Ron Paul school of thought - Ron Paul considers hate crime laws to be a form of big government oppression. Of course he's also a WASP-supremacist Jesus Warrior, so we all know where his bias is. I wonder if it's the same for Mosh.

celticdragon said it best, motive is always a factor in criminal cases -- why are hate crimes an issue, and not manslaughter vs murder in the first?


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