Former CPAC Chairman Denounces CPAC and the Right Wing

Politics • Views: 2,797

Wow. Mickey Edwards, who chaired CPAC for five years and served in Congress for 16 years, has a powerful piece at The Atlantic explaining Why I’m Not at CPAC.

The short version: because the modern right wing has been taken over by kooks.

No, I’m not going to CPAC. And, truth be told, most of the folks there wouldn’t want me there. They wouldn’t think I’m a conservative; many wouldn’t think Barry Goldwater was a conservative; many, had this been three decades ago, might have been seeking a “true” conservative to run against Ronald Reagan. I don’t begrudge these activists their views and they are entitled to use the term “conservative” to describe themselves if they so choose. But the views many of them profess have little in common with the distinctly American kind of conservatism that gave birth to CPAC and the modern American conservative movement. Instead, what many of today’s self-proclaimed “conservatives” proclaim is an ideology borrowed from what Donald Rumsfeld famously dismissed as “old Europe.” Winston Churchill, one of Europe’s better-known conservatives, was half-American and his incredible strength of character helped Great Britain survive World War II, but when asked to define conservatism, Churchill responded that conservatism was about reverence for king and church. But America has no king and has no national church. That distinction is crucial and one in which today’s so-called conservatives have switched sides; crossed the ocean, if you will.

What distinguished modern American conservatism was that it had its roots not in the British kings, but in John Locke and Adam Smith and other champions of individual liberties and individual empowerment. European conservatism—the kind that has now become the rage for the American Right—was top-down and centered on state power. The rise of modern American conservatism, on the other hand, had a distinctly Madisonian flair, embracing the fundamentals of American constitutional limits on central authority. European conservatism found its voice in magisterial decree, religious edict, and acts of parliaments in which members may or may not have ever visited the communities they were presumed to “represent.” American conservatism found its voice in a Constitution that placed every major power in the hands of the people, through their representatives, and ensured that those representatives would actually be residents of the communities that elected them. American conservatism embraced a Constitution that separated and constrained powers, that specified —highlighted—a few of the protected liberties of the people coupled with clear assertions that all undelegated powers—all other unsurrendered liberties—remained with the people rather than the government. A Constitution that placed unambiguous limitations, including direct prohibitions, on the attempted exercise of governmental authority.

Today there are few things that set a “conservative’s” teeth on edge more than a defense of “civil liberties;” yet that is what American conservatism was all about—protecting the liberties of the people. It was a system designed to protect the people from an over-reaching government, not to protect the government from the people. American constitutionalism was a historical high-point in recognizing individual worth. Stop at CPAC today and you will find rooms full of ardent, zealous, fervent young men and women who believe the government should be allowed to torture (we condemned people at Nuremberg for doing that), who believe the government should be able to lock people up without charges and hold them indefinitely (something Henry VIII agreed was a proper exercise of government authority). Who believe the government should be able to read a citizen’s mail and listen in on a citizen’s phone calls, all without a warrant (the Constitution of course prohibits searches without a warrant, but nobody cares less about the Constitution than some of today’s ersatz conservatives).

I’m not at CPAC because I believe in America. I believe in liberty. I believe that governments should be held in check. I believe people matter. I believe in the flag not because of its shape or color but because of the principles it stands for—the principles in the Constitution, the principles repeated and underlined and highlighted and boldfaced and italicized in the Bill of Rights. The George W. whose presidency and precedents I admire was the first president, not the 43d. It is James Madison I admire, not John Yoo. Thomas Paine, not Glenn Beck. Jefferson, not Limbaugh.

Ronald Reagan would not have been welcome at today’s CPAC or a tea party rally, but he would not have wanted to be there, either. Neither do I.

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142 comments
1 Ghost of a Dopefish  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 10:03:42am

This - now THIS is what the Republican politicians who want to stand a chance at election this year (and in ‘12 for President) need to be doing.

2 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 10:04:47am

Wonder how many death threats and hate mails he has garnered to date…

3 albusteve  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 10:05:59am

his career is over

4 Kragar  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 10:05:59am

Obviously a RINO.

///

5 Skeetghazi  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 10:06:10am

re: #1 thedopefishlives

This - now THIS is what the Republican politicians who want to stand a chance at election this year (and in ‘12 for President) need to be doing.

I so agree. It will take guts to stand up to the right wing, but whoever does will benefit in the end, that I don’t doubt at all.

6 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 10:07:12am

Wow. Powerful stuff. I like this dude.

7 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 10:08:00am

re: #6 Obdicut

Wow. Powerful stuff. I like this dude.

I don’t… too little, too late…

8 badger1970  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 10:08:05am

How true.

9 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 10:08:19am

Well, that was clear enough.

10 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 10:08:22am

Loony Michele Bachmann is now speaking, as if to prove Edwards’ points. Video next thread up.

11 albusteve  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 10:10:21am

re: #7 Walter L. Newton

I don’t… too little, too late…

agreed…a wee voice in the distance…the GOP had all summer to deal with this and how did they react?…they embraced the nutters

12 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 10:14:19am

The message is cldar: Obama is the Redcoats, we are the Minutemen.

Ignore the fact that this is no Tyrant sitting on an island 3,000 miles away, but rather a legally and constitutionally elected president, she sees the moral imperative to rebel.

13 Jeff In Ohio  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 10:14:34am

The Tories are throwing the Tea Party.

14 ShaunP  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 10:15:58am

Quite well written and excellent. This is the direction that the republican party should be moving…

15 DaddyG  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 10:16:16am

Wow that is good stuff. The founding Father’s comments on virtue had to do with individual virtue as the bullwark of freedom- not the virtue of a central religious authority or state.

This article does a good job of articulating the difference between what I have always understood conservative and traditional American values to mean vs. the restrictive template that the NeoCons impose.

Ironcially their views are just another flavor of the big government knows best approach of the left.

16 Bon Hagar09  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 10:22:05am

Republicans ran this guy’s (and Colin Powell’s) ideal candidate: John McCain.

McCain lost.

17 HappyWarrior  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 10:23:10am

Read up on Edwards, he voted for Obama in 2008 so I think he’s been feeling frustrated with the modern conservative movement for some time now and who can blame him. There are plenty of reasonable conservatives out there who mean it when they say want limited government and individual rights but the more vocal bunch are exactly who Edwards is talking about. I’m sorry but you can’t tell me you’re for individual rights when one of your biggest causes is making the country more how you want it religiously and banning gay marriage nationally.

18 webevintage  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 10:24:23am

re: #12 ralphieboy

The message is cldar: Obama is the Redcoats, we are the Minutemen.

Ignore the fact that this is no Tyrant sitting on an island 3,000 miles away, but rather a legally and constitutionally elected president, she sees the moral imperative to rebel.

Elections only count if their guy is voted in…

19 webevintage  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 10:27:49am

re: #16 Bon Hagar09

Republicans ran this guy’s (and Colin Powell’s) ideal candidate: John McCain.

McCain lost.

John McCain lost for a couple of reasons.
1. Obama was a better pol
2. Palin
3. I did not recognize the John McCain was was in that election
4. Palin
5. David Letterman
6. Bush
7. Palin
8. Bad choices when the economy tanked
9. Barack Obama
and did I mention Sarah Palin?

Am more “conservative” candidate would NOT have won.

20 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 10:29:20am

re: #16 Bon Hagar09

And a “real conservative” would have done worse. The voters were very unhappy with Republicans and someone with a ‘maverick’ image was our only shot.

21 Beany  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 10:31:57am

re: #14 ShaunP

Is the Republican party capable of going in this direction without the support of the extreme right? Would be nice, but people with his view don’t seem to get much attention. Lots of work needs to be done to get these views respected … again.

22 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 10:33:25am

re: #19 webevintage

John McCain lost for a couple of reasons.
1. Obama was a better pol
2. Palin
3. I did not recognize the John McCain was was in that election
4. Palin
5. David Letterman
6. Bush
7. Palin
8. Bad choices when the economy tanked
9. Barack Obama
and did I mention Sarah Palin?

Am more “conservative” candidate would NOT have won.


The Republicans could not simply explain why their candidate was the better choice. They went for the attack route, which had worked so well against Kerry.

Except that Kery was the kinda guy that people did not like, even the ones who agreed with his politics. Obama managed to be affable and likeable, even to many of those who opposed his politics orhis party.

The attackes backfired, the candidate lost. Because the conservatives were too conservative, as in not adapting their methods to a changed situation but sticking to the same old tack.

23 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 10:33:26am

Sure enough, here come the people insinuating that Edwards is a RINO, and Republicans should go even farther to the right.

Like clockwork.

24 Bon Hagar09  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 10:35:02am

McCain wasn’t conservative, he was really no different from Obama.

Citing Palin as the scourge that you seem to think she is, what do think of Joe Biden?

Seems to me like some are letting the state run media provide them the reasons to reject conservatives.

25 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 10:36:14am

state-run media?

26 HappyWarrior  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 10:38:33am

I think you guys who are saying the problem was that McCain was RINO or insufficiently conservative forget one thing: Obama ran quite honestly the best campaign for president a Democrat has in a long time. You don’t have to like his policies or even like the guy. I admit I do like Obama but I have to say he ran by far a better campaign than Kerry or Gore did. He went to places where past candidates would not and I really think honestly he did a better job of relating with voters than they did. I am not saying he’s a regular guy like me or you but he managed to get my voting bloc excited and we never get excited. If Republicans and Conservatives want to get young people’s votes in the future. I’ll say it again, they need to stop being cultural warriors. Young people aren’t liberals because of fiscal issues. It’s because by and large we don’t give a crap if you’re gay, Muslim, atheist, etc. Now,I myself will likely not vote Republican as much because I admittingly do lean left on economics but I would happily vote for a Republican who made a lot of fiscal sense and didn’t engage in cultural war.

27 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 10:40:38am

re: #24 Bon Hagar09

GAZE

28 Bon Hagar09  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 10:45:53am

re: #25 ralphieboy
Biden?

29 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 10:46:47am

Palin was foisted on McCain by the religious right wing in order to ensure their supprt. they had already threatened to run an independent candidate if McCain won the Republican nomination.

Needless to say, Joe Lieberman as a running mate would have completely alienated the Christian far right.

30 Jadespring  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 10:50:02am

re: #25 ralphieboy

state-run media?

It’s a conspiracy. It goes like this. Any media outlet that reports news that doesn’t agree with my POV must be state run. There is just no other explanation.

31 Jeff In Ohio  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 10:51:11am

re: #24 Bon Hagar09

McCain wasn’t conservative, he was really no different from Obama.

Citing Palin as the scourge that you seem to think she is, what do think of Joe Biden?

Seems to me like some are letting the state run media provide them the reasons to reject conservatives.

I would not have run Biden as the GOP candidate. He’s kind of liberal for that crowd. And I agree with the state run media quip. Once the GOP releases it’s hold on Obama’s new appointments to control the media and they are voted on, we will be able to really appreciate the Teabaggery.

32 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 10:52:39am

re: #30 Jadespring

It’s a conspiracy. It goes like this. Any media outlet that reports news that doesn’t agree with my POV must be state run. There is just no other explanation.


You mean like Fox under the Bush administration?

33 Bon Hagar09  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 10:55:18am

re: #29 ralphieboy Speaking of ‘conspiracies’: Palin was ‘foisted’ upon McCain by backroom religious zealots. Geez.

Most media outlets parrot each other within minutes with literally the same catch phrases and action-lines in their reporting.

As we so enjoyably debate here upon LGF, the state run media is trying to link this left wing Bush-Reagan hating plane crasher in Austin with the TEA Party movement, even though he posted his leftist beliefs in his suicide note.

That kinda state-run reporting.

34 Bon Hagar09  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 10:57:05am

re: #32 ralphieboy

You must have been watching FOX from MSNBC?

35 Bon Hagar09  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 10:59:06am

re: #31 Jeff In Ohio
I was asking Ralhpieboy if he thought that Palin was such a liability for the GOP, what is his opinion of Joe Biden, the DEMOCRAT Vice President?

But he hasn’t answered that question.

36 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:00:58am

re: #33 Bon Hagar09

Speaking of ‘conspiracies’: Palin was ‘foisted’ upon McCain by backroom religious zealots. Geez.

Most media outlets parrot each other within minutes with literally the same catch phrases and action-lines in their reporting.

As we so enjoyably debate here upon LGF, the state run media is trying to link this left wing Bush-Reagan hating plane crasher in Austin with the TEA Party movement, even though he posted his leftist beliefs in his suicide note.

That kinda state-run reporting.


The religious right had already threatened to field an independent candidate, which woulda sunk the Republicans. And Palin was clearly not his candidate of choice, he was given her as a deal-maker with certain factions within the party.

The cracks showed within minutes and the damage was irreparable.

37 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:02:03am

re: #34 Bon Hagar09

Have you previously registered at LGF under a different name?

38 prairiefire  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:03:53am

re: #35 Bon Hagar09

I was asking Ralhpieboy if he thought that Palin was such a liability for the GOP, what is his opinion of Joe Biden, the DEMOCRAT Vice President?

But he hasn’t answered that question.

Joe Biden is a good Vice President. Far better than Dick Chaney.

39 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:05:19am

re: #35 Bon Hagar09

I was asking Ralhpieboy if he thought that Palin was such a liability for the GOP, what is his opinion of Joe Biden, the DEMOCRAT Vice President?

But he hasn’t answered that question.

Sorry for not getting back to your pressing question earlier, Biden was also glommed onto the Democrat(ic) ticket as the result of factional politics within the party (standard political OP), but he was meant to keep a low profile and managed to to make such an embarassment of himself as Sarah did for the Republic(an) party.

40 Bon Hagar09  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:06:36am

re: #37 Charles Happy to admit it.

P. Aaron. You banned me and even severed the URL to your site. I attempted to reconcile with you…in my own way. But since I disagreed with you…

I was amused. But hey, when some one is WRONG on the internet, one has to convince them otherwise right?

41 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:07:43am

re: #40 Bon Hagar09

So long, troll boy. I’ve got the grill going, troll roast in 30.

42 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:07:44am

And respond to his questions immediately.

43 Bon Hagar09  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:08:14am

re: #39 ralphieboy
Do you really think that he is any worse than Palin would be? Of course the whole administration has not been rife with either hope or change.

44 Bon Hagar09  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:09:23am

re: #41 Dark_Falcon
A troll…for disagreeing. Enjoy a one-dimensional worldview…and the exclusion of other points of view.

talk about extremism. Geez

45 Lidane  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:09:24am

re: #41 Dark_Falcon

So long, troll boy. I’ve got the grill going, troll roast in 30.

I’ll join you. I’ve got some NY Strip steaks that I was planning on cooking up today anyway. Heh.

46 Bon Hagar09  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:11:04am

re: #42 ralphieboyIt takes guts…to admit some things…without FEAR of being disagreed with.

47 William of Orange  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:11:19am

I fear he’s alone in the desert. No media interest, only the blogs feel this is important to give it room. The deluge of filth coming from the CPAC drowns everything.

48 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:11:33am

Palin did not just try to make her daughter get a shotgun marriage to the white trash loser that knocked her daughter up, she was gonna make sure that any American whose daughter got knocked up by some loser would have to keep the kid, whether she married him or not.

Biden knows that most Americans are opposed to abortion in principle, but would like to keep a legal bolthole in place in case their daughters do not achieve a state of pure and total Abstinence Only before marriage.

And I believe that is one of the thinkgs that put a lot of Americans off Sarah.

49 ShaunP  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:11:38am

re: #44 Bon Hagar09

A troll…for disagreeing. Enjoy a one-dimensional worldview…and the exclusion of other points of view.

talk about extremism. Geez

No, a troll for going somewhere you are obviously not welcome (banned) to stir the pot…

50 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:11:58am

re: #44 Bon Hagar09

A troll…for disagreeing. Enjoy a one-dimensional worldview…and the exclusion of other points of view.

talk about extremism. Geez

A troll for returning after being banned and IP blocked. Sounds like you probably sent some nasty emails, too. Trolls don’t usually get IP blocked just for pimping Glenn Beck.

51 Vambo  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:13:09am

re: #33 Bon Hagar09


As we so enjoyably debate here upon LGF, the state run media is trying to link this left wing Bush-Reagan hating plane crasher in Austin with the TEA Party movement, even though he posted his leftist beliefs in his suicide note.

Maybe bipartisanship is possible, after all. The right wing is now embracing this left-wing terrorist as a folk hero, Scott Brown is defending his actions… kumbaya!!!

52 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:13:37am

It was the friendly “you haven’t answered my question yet” riff that gave the Troll breath away. Maybe some of us are not fixated on this site and are doing other things while lookin in…

53 cliffster  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:14:20am

re: #40 Bon Hagar09

If someone wants you to go away and leave them alone, and you keep coming anyways (especially if you jump through hoops to do so), it’s called “stalking”.

54 Bon Hagar09  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:14:24am

re: #50 wrenchwench Assuming you have me all figured out, ask Charles and perhaps, if he wants to waste his time, he can post all my e-mails to him for your (righteous) indulgence.

55 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:15:15am

re: #54 Bon Hagar09

Not interested.

56 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:15:18am

re: #54 Bon Hagar09

FOAD

57 Jadespring  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:15:58am

re: #51 Vambo

Maybe bipartisanship is possible, after all. The right wing is now embracing this left-wing terrorist as a folk hero, Scott Brown is defending his actions… kumbaya!!!

Oh good grief. Try reading his manifesto without the blinders on. The guy was an equal opportunity nutbar. Enough proof of left wing as there is right wing. He was all over the political map.

58 cliffster  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:16:51am
59 Jeff In Ohio  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:16:54am

re: #35 Bon Hagar09

I was asking Ralhpieboy if he thought that Palin was such a liability for the GOP, what is his opinion of Joe Biden, the DEMOCRAT Vice President?

But he hasn’t answered that question.

Democrat? That’s a howler. He’s obviously a socialist, and not a very good one at that.

60 Bon Hagar09  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:17:26am

CLIFFSTER:
If someone wants you to go away and leave them alone, and you keep coming anyways (especially if you jump through hoops to do so), it’s called “stalking”.

re: #52 ralphieboy
“Troll breath”. Nice, who’s starting the name calling. I was/am simply asking questions.

Heck, it was LGF that let me back in. I am always curious as to what others are thinking or saying. If Charles wants to once again ban…ban away…I suppose. But that would make it less fun for you protectors here…wouldn’t it?

61 I Am Kreniigh!  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:18:00am

re: #57 Jadespring

Oh good grief. Try reading his manifesto without the blinders on. The guy was an equal opportunity nutbar. Enough proof of left wing as there is right wing. He was all over the political map.

Left or right, he crashed a plane into a building full of innocents just to make a “point”. That’s just plain evil, and anyone who hails him as a hero is embracing evil.

62 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:18:06am

re: #57 Jadespring

Oh good grief. Try reading his manifesto without the blinders on. The guy was an equal opportunity nutbar. Enough proof of left wing as there is right wing. He was all over the political map.


That’s another nice thing about the Teabag movement, it is not a party, has no manifesto save a few vague principles (anything to annoy obama and anyone vaguely liberal) and leaves room for the Republicans to associate with them on the issues they agree with while still keeping their distance from the more extreme cases (and bad spellers) in the crowd.

63 Jadespring  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:18:51am

re: #61 Kreniigh

Left or right, he crashed a plane into a building full of innocents just to make a “point”. That’s just plain evil, and anyone who hails him as a hero is embracing evil.

On that point I 100% agree.

64 Bon Hagar09  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:19:39am

re: #56 Dark_Falcon
I am not up on the 4-digit internet code here. Say what you mean in a way that I can reply and perhaps furnish for you…a cogent answer.

65 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:21:54am

Freedom Over Antichrist Democrats!

66 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:23:18am

re: #64 Bon Hagar09

FOAD = Fuck Off And Die

67 HappyWarrior  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:23:28am

The thing that’s messed up about the whole Stack thing is all these facebook groups/fan pages that are celebrating him and what he did while Robin Dehaven the real hero of yesterday has last I checked a couple groups. People are using the Jefferson quote about blood on the liberty tree to justify what happened. Shit pisses me off. That people think civil war would be this great thing for this country. The civil war as any student of American history knows was easily one of our if not the saddest moments. We are lucky to have government stability. I wish I could say the same for all nations.

68 Bon Hagar09  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:25:32am

re: #55 wrenchwench
Then don’t assume.

69 Bon Hagar09  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:28:21am

re: #66 Dark_Falcon
Nice…I haven’t even exploded into a retort profanity laced invective myself, yet, you are all into name calling and extremism that is so atrocious when coming from others directed at YOU.

I couldn’t swear or wish ill upon you no matter how heartily we disagree about a topic. But perhaps some LGF posters are more equal than others?

70 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:30:32am

re: #69 Bon Hagar09

you come in here after being banned with lies about a state-run media. That’s not worthy of any respect from me.

71 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:30:36am

re: #24 Bon Hagar09

McCain wasn’t conservative, he was really no different from Obama.

Damn, that had me laughing so hard I scared the cat!

William

72 cliffster  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:31:13am

re: #69 Bon Hagar09

Maybe it has to do with the fact that you were asked to leave and you broke in again?

73 Lidane  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:32:43am

re: #61 Kreniigh

Left or right, he crashed a plane into a building full of innocents just to make a “point”. That’s just plain evil, and anyone who hails him as a hero is embracing evil.

Pretty much.

I live in Austin. I don’t give a damn about that guy’s politics or his motives, or whether they’re left, right, teabagger, or WTF ever. He caused deliberate harm to his wife and stepdaughter by burning the house down and destroying damn near everything they owned. He also targeted hundreds of innocent people in the Echelon Center who hadn’t done anything except get up in the morning and go about their daily lives.

That’s not making a point. That’s being a selfish asshole who took his frustrations and his one-sided feud out on people who didn’t do anything to him at all.

74 Bon Hagar09  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:33:32am

re: #70 Dark_Falcon Then why respond? Assume a triangulating position ‘above it all’.

75 Bon Hagar09  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:34:32am

re: #73 Lidane The guy was a whack job.

76 Bon Hagar09  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:36:23am

re: #72 cliffster I didn’t ‘break in’ either. I simply registered under a different name because I could not use my original name which is posted above.

I tried to be upfront about it in every way…but could not re-register with my REAL NAME.

I’d be more than happy to edit the profile and use my REAL NAME.

We’ll see.

77 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:40:29am

re: #76 Bon Hagar09

You could come here under your real name because Charles told you were not welcome. Some people would take the hint and go somewhere else.

GAZE

78 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:43:54am

re: #24 Bon Hagar09

McCain wasn’t conservative, he was really no different from Obama.

I HOPE YOU’RE FUCKING HAPPY NOW.

79 Bon Hagar09  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:44:26am

re: #77 Dark_Falcon Then REPORT ME.

Instead of these 4 letter codes, why don’t you say what you really mean?

Or is it more profanity directed at those with whom you disagree?

Courage…courage.

80 Bon Hagar09  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:45:46am

re: #78 MandyManners I am relatively happy. McCain probably would be a compromiser. But Obama has proven to be exactly what I thought he would be.

But so what?

81 Jadespring  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:45:56am

re: #77 Dark_Falcon

You could come here under your real name because Charles told you were not welcome. Some people would take the hint and go somewhere else.

GAZE

It’s like having a friend or person that shows up at parties at your house. Guy behaves in a way that’s unacceptable and gets chucked out. Guy still tries to show up so when the parties going on you lock the door and roll down the window shades. Get the hint. Private property and all that. Then you come home from work and the guy is sitting in the living room. Wha?

Guy responds, ‘Well you did leave a window open. Where do you keep the beer?’

82 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:48:53am

re: #78 MandyManners

I HOPE YOU’RE FUCKING HAPPY NOW.

That’s our Mandy, leaving no blockhead standing.

83 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:49:04am

re: #73 Lidane

Pretty much.

I live in Austin. I don’t give a damn about that guy’s politics or his motives, or whether they’re left, right, teabagger, or WTF ever. He caused deliberate harm to his wife and stepdaughter by burning the house down and destroying damn near everything they owned. He also targeted hundreds of innocent people in the Echelon Center who hadn’t done anything except get up in the morning and go about their daily lives.

That’s not making a point. That’s being a selfish asshole who took his frustrations and his one-sided feud out on people who didn’t do anything to him at all.

Exactly. After I read the kook’s manifesto, it occurred to me that I might be in sympathy with at least some of his concerns. I gave that about a nano-second of thought and said to hell with the murdering bastard.

84 RogueOne  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:49:19am

I hate to disagree with the old guy but Mickey Edwards was part of the conservative movement when their big plan for the advance of conservatism was to go along to get along. His view of the current conservative movement is the exact opposite of the libertarian wing of american politics who feel conservatives are moving in their direction which means standing up for civil liberties and individualism. Also, noting the unnecessary crack at our last president makes it seem this gentleman has a bit of an axe to grind.

85 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:49:26am

re: #80 Bon Hagar09

I am relatively happy. McCain probably would be a compromiser. But Obama has proven to be exactly what I thought he would be.

But so what?

What a cavalier attitude! As long as you’re proved right, to hell with everyone and everything.

86 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:50:42am

re: #79 Bon Hagar09

Then REPORT ME.

Instead of these 4 letter codes, why don’t you say what you really mean?

Or is it more profanity directed at those with whom you disagree?

Courage…courage.

It’s not fucking profanity, you fucking idiot. Now, go the fuck away. Got that, fuckwad?

87 Bon Hagar09  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:51:23am

re: #81 Jadespring Talk about being inviting, you’re the one telling people that don’t share your worldview to FOAD.

88 donna quixote  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:53:49am

Very true. I have seen the far right nut jobs in action…..infiltrating a local club. There is no way except their way. Unfortunately, they succeed all too often. I was always sorry I had thrown away my “Republicans for Choice” button when I moved to this state.

89 Girth  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:54:22am

re: #87 Bon Hagar09

Talk about being inviting, you’re the one telling people that don’t share your worldview to FOAD.

No, I’m pretty sure FOAD was directed towards someone who was banned and then registered under another name.

I know it’s hard, but do try to keep up.

90 Jadespring  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:55:10am

re: #87 Bon Hagar09

Talk about being inviting, you’re the one telling people that don’t share your worldview to FOAD.

No I did not.

91 Bon Hagar09  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:55:58am

re: #86 MandyManners

See #87. Geez what a nice welcoming crowd…losing it in a way that so upsets you when you get replies that are similar to the ones I am getting from all of you.

I would have expected a bit more reasoning and much less invective, but if this is the course and direction that conversation and debate are going to go…well it’s sad for the website here…if you can’t or won’t at least elevate the conversation to point-counterpoint.

But I see what you’re trying to do…drive someone away with profanity and childish responses.

92 Bon Hagar09  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:56:48am

re: #90 Jadespring

Go back and review #64 then…you loveable lug of an LGF’er.

93 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:58:42am

re: #91 Bon Hagar09

See #87. Geez what a nice welcoming crowd…losing it in a way that so upsets you when you get replies that are similar to the ones I am getting from all of you.

I would have expected a bit more reasoning and much less invective, but if this is the course and direction that conversation and debate are going to go…well it’s sad for the website here…if you can’t or won’t at least elevate the conversation to point-counterpoint.

But I see what you’re trying to do…drive someone away with profanity and childish responses.

*stomps mah widdle feetsies*

I’M NOT A CHILD!

94 Jadespring  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:58:59am

re: #92 Bon Hagar09

Go back and review #64 then…you loveable lug of an LGF’er.

Uh dude. Not my post.

95 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:59:25am
what many of today’s self-proclaimed “conservatives” proclaim is an ideology borrowed from what Donald Rumsfeld famously dismissed as “old Europe.” Winston Churchill, one of Europe’s better-known conservatives, was half-American and his incredible strength of character helped Great Britain survive World War II, but when asked to define conservatism, Churchill responded that conservatism was about reverence for king and church. But America has no king and has no national church. That distinction is crucial and one in which today’s so-called conservatives have switched sides; crossed the ocean, if you will.

This is a brilliant and crucial insight. In particular, it reflects the real agenda of the John Birch Society, as laid out in the exotic (and currently little-publicized) set of conspiracy theories that constitute their bedrock beliefs. These people are “old world” conservatives, opposed to, or suspicious of, every political and social change since the Enlightenment.

96 Girth  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:59:26am

re: #91 Bon Hagar09

See #87. Geez what a nice welcoming crowd…losing it in a way that so upsets you when you get replies that are similar to the ones I am getting from all of you.

I would have expected a bit more reasoning and much less invective, but if this is the course and direction that conversation and debate are going to go…well it’s sad for the website here…if you can’t or won’t at least elevate the conversation to point-counterpoint.

But I see what you’re trying to do…drive someone away with profanity and childish responses.

This is especially funny after this:
re: #87 Bon Hagar09

Talk about being inviting, you’re the one telling people that don’t share your worldview to FOAD.

Wherein you attribute something to the wrong person and then ascribe a different motive for it.

97 subsailor68  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:59:44am

re: #92 Bon Hagar09

Go back and review #64 then…you loveable lug of an LGF’er.

Um, you might want to take a look. Your 64 references Dark Falcon, not Jadespring. Jadespring didn’t use that term.

98 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:59:45am

re: #92 Bon Hagar09

Go back and review #64 then…you loveable lug of an LGF’er.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

99 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 11:59:57am

re: #92 Bon Hagar09

I told you to FOAD, not Jadespring.

100 Bon Hagar09  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 12:00:03pm

re: #92 Bon Hagar09
Ooops sorry it was #66 from Dark Falcon.

101 Bon Hagar09  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 12:02:45pm

re: #97 subsailor68 I corrected the post at 100. The comment still stands from many of you that can’t seem to stay on message about the initial post and comments related to that.

I find it funny that you all leap on my little mistake, and my absolute honesty with insults and profanity.

102 Girth  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 12:04:42pm

re: #101 Bon Hagar09

I corrected the post at 100. The comment still stands from many of you that can’t seem to stay on message about the initial post and comments related to that.

I find it funny that you all leap on my little mistake, and my absolute honesty with insults and profanity.

I find it funny that you pretend that you’re interested in anything other than evoking an emotional response from people.

103 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 12:07:08pm

re: #88 donna quixote

Very true. I have seen the far right nut jobs in action…infiltrating a local club. There is no way except their way. Unfortunately, they succeed all too often. I was always sorry I had thrown away my “Republicans for Choice” button when I moved to this state.

It is good to see you again my lady ;)

I still love your nic.

104 Jadespring  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 12:10:30pm

re: #101 Bon Hagar09

No. That’s not what is funny. ;)

105 Bon Hagar09  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 12:10:54pm

re: #102 Girth A ‘thoughtful’ reply would be more welcome.

106 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 12:12:12pm

The only worse thing than a troll is a boring troll.

107 Girth  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 12:12:26pm

re: #105 Bon Hagar09

A ‘thoughtful’ reply would be more welcome.

See, there, you make me laugh.

What exactly have you said that requires a thoughtful reply?

108 ShaunP  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 12:12:52pm

re: #105 Bon Hagar09

A ‘thoughtful’ reply would be more welcome.

FOAD?

109 Girth  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 12:13:38pm

re: #107 Girth

See, there, you make me laugh.

What exactly have you said that requires a thoughtful reply?

Also, please tell me what would make my reply more ‘thoughtful’ so that I can meet or exceed your expectations.

110 Tumulus11  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 12:14:27pm

.The troll may have been injured. Someone leaped on its ‘little mistake’.

111 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 12:17:05pm

re: #110 Tumulus11

.The troll may have been injured. Someone leaped on its ‘little mistake’.

I don’t step on troll’s dick. After the troll has been killed by ban-hammer, I remove the troll’s genitals with a Flouncing Knife prior to grilling it.

112 ShaunP  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 12:18:48pm

re: #111 Dark_Falcon

I don’t step on troll’s dick. After the troll has been killed by ban-hammer, I remove the troll’s genitals with a Flouncing Knife prior to grilling it.

Put it on a stick, then grill it!

113 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 12:23:19pm

re: #51 Vambo

Maybe bipartisanship is possible, after all. The right wing is now embracing this left-wing terrorist as a folk hero, Scott Brown is defending his actions… kumbaya!!!

Scott Brown done what?

114 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 12:23:53pm

re: #113 SanFranciscoZionist

Scott Brown done what?

Ignore it - Brown’s done nothing of the kind.

115 Bon Hagar09  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 12:29:19pm

re: #111 Dark_Falcon Such courage and bravery from you. I thought we were talking about CPAC and Mickey Edwards.

Instead, you have revealed yourself as intolerant of dissention. It was cool a few years back but I guess it’s out of fashion now.

116 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 12:30:18pm

re: #114 Guanxi88

Ignore it - Brown’s done nothing of the kind.

No, he hasn’t, but what he did say did not make me feel terribly happy with him, now that I’ve looked it up.

117 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 12:33:16pm

re: #116 SanFranciscoZionist

No, he hasn’t, but what he did say did not make me feel terribly happy with him, now that I’ve looked it up.

WE talking about the Cavuto thing?

CAVUTO: But, in all seriousness, Senator, this happens on a day we — we have this crazy plane crash in Austin, Texas. And we have a guy who is just ranting at the system, ranting at the IRS, ranting at big government, the need for health care — the — not the need for unions getting special care, I mean, really crazy stuff.

I would just be curious to your reaction to all that.

BROWN: Well, it’s certainly tragic, and I feel for the families, obviously, that are being affected by it.

And I don’t know if it’s related, but I can just sense, not only in my election but since being here in Washington, people are frustrated. They want transparency. They want their elected officials to be accountable and open and, you know, talk about the things that are affecting their daily lives.

So, I’m not sure if there’s a connection. I certainly hope not. But, you know, we need to do things better.

CAVUTO: You know, invariably, people are going to look at this type of incident, Senator, and say, well, that’s where some of this populist rage gets you. Isn’t that a bit extreme?

BROWN: Well, yes, of course it’s extreme. You don’t know anything about the individual. He could have had other issues.

Certainly, no one likes paying taxes, obviously. But the way we’re trying to deal with things, and have been in the past, at least until I got here, is there’s such a logjam in Washington, and people want us to do better. They want us to help solve the problems that are affecting Americans in a very real way.

And I think we — I’m hopeful that we can do that, with a lot of the things that are coming forward. At least what I’m hearing through — in speaking with my colleagues, there seems to be a different feel. There’s, kind of, a message was sent with my election, the fact that I was, you know, pretty — elected by a substantial margin in taking the former Ted Kennedy seat.

They want — they want somebody different. They want differences up here, and I’m – I’m hopeful that’s going to happen.
***

Not Churchillian, but then again, the guy ain’t Churchill.

118 Girth  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 12:39:55pm

re: #115 Bon Hagar09

Such courage and bravery from you. I thought we were talking about CPAC and Mickey Edwards.

Instead, you have revealed yourself as intolerant of dissention. It was cool a few years back but I guess it’s out of fashion now.

Such courage and bravery from you. Please cite a post of yours where you talked about Mickey Edwards past your #16 (which is tangential at best) or about CPAC at all.

Instead, you have revealed yourself as intolerant of other people’s websites and their rules for using same. It was never cool nor in fashion.

119 Jack Burton  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 12:44:38pm

This thread looks like a good place for Spacejesus to make an appearance. Where is he when we need him?

120 prairiefire  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 12:48:10pm

re: #116 SanFranciscoZionist

No, he hasn’t, but what he did say did not make me feel terribly happy with him, now that I’ve looked it up.

I’d love to know what the Dems who voted for him think of him now. I’ll give him another 6 months and then I’d really like to see some polling.
I still can’t get over the fact that I’ve seen a Senator’s pubic hair, and I’ve never been to D.C..

121 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 12:49:15pm

re: #119 ArchangelMichael

This thread looks like a good place for Spacejesus to make an appearance. Where is he when we need him?

Him & LVQ - Man, that’d be a good time.

122 Bon Hagar09  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 12:51:52pm

re: #118 Girth Well that’s about where all the insults and invective directed at me started.

And it wasn’t related at all to the article at hand.

At any rate, ostensible Republican ‘Conservatives’ write these ‘Dear John’ letters all the time. It’s a David Brooks-ish kinda pastime. It appears that Mickey is wanting of some airtime…perhaps he’ll get lucky at MSNBC, or CNN, CNBC or some other place where they can’t beat FOX’s 3:00AM lineup.

It’s hardly new, nor breathtaking that these types of letters appear. I don’t think that they change many minds.

All I stated was that Republicans ran the ‘ideal’ tolerant candidate in McCain. And everyone who has stated that Republican’s should move in McCain’s direction voted for Obama.

For that, I am labled a ‘troll’.

123 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 12:54:14pm

re: #122 Bon Hagar09


All I stated was that Republicans ran the ‘ideal’ tolerant candidate in McCain. And everyone who has stated that Republican’s should move in McCain’s direction voted for Obama.

For that, I am labled a ‘troll’.

No, that is a point that has been raised here a good many times, and one with which I agree, by and large.

You’re labelled a “troll” not for your position on this or any other matter, but for your obnoxious unwillingness to do anything to distinguish yourself from your bridge-dwelling namesakes.

124 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 12:54:38pm

re: #122 Bon Hagar09

See #50 for why you are labeled a troll.

125 Bon Hagar09  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:02:05pm

re: #123 Guanxi88 Where was I insulting to others here, besides replying to their snide and profane commentary? I am only stating MY opinion.

If one person’s differing opinion is THAT unsettling to so many, well, what does that say about them?

126 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:03:11pm

re: #125 Bon Hagar09

Where was I insulting to others here, besides replying to their snide and profane commentary? I am only stating MY opinion.

If one person’s differing opinion is THAT unsettling to so many, well, what does that say about them?

Then let it drift. What does it matter to you what these unworthies think of you, or the snide things they have to say about your FORMERLY BANNED self?

127 Bon Hagar09  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:04:29pm

re: #124 wrenchwench

See #50 for why you are labeled a troll.


I read number 50, and Charles even asked me at 37 and I HONESTLY replied at #40.

At least I’m honest to admit it.

128 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:06:16pm

re: #127 Bon Hagar09

I read number 50, and Charles even asked me at 37 and I HONESTLY replied at #40.

At least I’m honest to admit it.

And then dishonest enough to deny it in #122. Goofball.

129 Bon Hagar09  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:06:26pm

re: #126 Guanxi88

Then let it drift. What does it matter to you what these unworthies think of you, or the snide things they have to say about your FORMERLY BANNED self?


Because I thought this was a place where an exchange of ideas was welcome…but I am perhaps misinformed?

“Formerly banned’ has a ring to it.

130 Bon Hagar09  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:08:12pm

re: #128 wrenchwench

And then dishonest enough to deny it in #122. Goofball.


Dishonest how? I went back to the original post and to comment upon the letter. My admission was already there for you to see.

At least you’ve downgraded the insults to non-profanity.

131 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:10:15pm

re: #128 wrenchwench

Just ignore him. Charles will deal with him if he wishes to.

132 Bon Hagar09  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:12:28pm

re: #131 Dark_Falcon

Just ignore him. Charles will deal with him if he wishes to.

Good advice…Thank You.

133 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:14:42pm

Waiting for Pam Geller to shriek that Mickey Edwards didn’t know Ronald Reagan and that Reagan would not be proud of Edwards.

That’s what she told Reagan’s son, Ron, after all. On a national teevee show.

134 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:20:40pm

re: #127 Bon Hagar09

I read number 50, and Charles even asked me at 37 and I HONESTLY replied at #40.

At least I’m honest to admit it.

That’s the only reason you’re still posting comments, but if you have nothing to say except complaints and insults you could still end up banned again.

135 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:22:20pm

re: #134 Charles

That’s the only reason you’re still posting comments, but if you have nothing to say except complaints and insults you could still end up banned again.

Well that answers my complaint. I won’t bother you about him anymore. Let’s all head upstairs.

136 Bagua  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:26:43pm

What an easy quiz… everbody knows humans and dinosaurs were around the same time, there is proof…

137 Bagua  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:27:48pm

Oops, wrong thread… just like a Lost episode!

138 Funky_Gibbon  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:56:47pm

I’d have to disagree with the statement that current American conservatism as expressed by the nuttier parts of the US Right is ‘Old Europe’ or has ‘crossed the water’ as he put it. I’m no fan of conservatism anywhere but I simply don’t recognise the comparison with European conservatism.

The conservatism currently surfacing in the US is a uniquely American kind and a throwback to the mistrust of authority that was prevalent in many States before your Civil War.

Churchill may have spoken of ‘reverence for King and Church’ but he was also speaking in a time when the monarchy had been stripped of most of its power for certuries and acted more as a figurehead than anything else. He spoke at a time when Darwin, the antithesis of what so much of the US Right believe in, was so embraced by the church and state in Britain that he had been buried in Westminster Abbey.

Anyway… that’s my 2 cents. Feel free to completely disagree ;)

139 S'latch  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:58:37pm

Mickey Edwards is saying that the philosophy of most of CPAC and the new right wing is not consistent with modern American conservatism.

140 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:03:29pm

re: #111 Dark_Falcon

I don’t step on troll’s dick. After the troll has been killed by ban-hammer, I remove the troll’s genitals with a Flouncing Knife prior to grilling it.

Upding for the Melville reference.

141 wiffersnapper  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:22:01pm

Shun the non-believer! Shun!

///

142 hokiepride  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:17:45pm

Churchill responded that conservatism was about reverence for king and church. But America has no king and has no national church. That distinction is crucial and one in which today’s so-called conservatives have switched sides; crossed the ocean, if you will.

This definition would fit the paleoturds perfectly with their BS about Europe and America being part of the same mythical “West”. Newsflash —the “West” is a collectivist term coined after WWII for opposing a common enemy (USSR). Prior to that there was no “West”. TR and Monroe did not think very highly of the “West” either. The current crop of “conservatives” who keep inveighing about the so-called West and think that the US and Europe are one and the same culturally would be best advised to read Mickey Edwards’s columns.


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