Overnight Open Thread
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Let’s not look back in anger or forward in fear, but around in awareness.
— James Thurber
986 comments
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Silvergirl Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:03:48pm |
And the title of a 50s play. (The "Look Back in Anger" part)
| 5 |
simoom Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:04:59pm |
If anyone had a Commodore 64 back in the day, this classic SID chip tune will likely be familiar.
Fairlight Intro:
Here's a modern remix of the same tune performed live:
| 6 |
lostlakehiker Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:05:00pm |
Wall Street Journal editorial of Wednesday Feb 17 cited as an authority one "professor" Willie Soon of Harvard. They do like to make up credentials when they have somebody who will put the stamp of science on the don't worry there's no global warming lobby.
Soon is indeed affiliated with Harvard, but not in the rank of professor.
| 7 |
albusteve Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:06:10pm |
| 9 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:11:03pm |
Let’s not look back in anger or forward in fear, but around in awareness.— James Thurber
Screw that. I want to light my hair on fire, run around in circles, and scream endlessly about impending doom.
- Tricorne Enthusiast
| 10 |
freetoken Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:11:54pm |
re: #6 lostlakehiker
Yes, the notorious Willie Soon. Let me guess... the WSJ editors totally ignored his ignoble past.
| 11 |
The Left Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:13:40pm |
re: #10 freetoken
Yes, the notorious Willie Soon. Let me guess... the WSJ editors totally ignored his ignoble past.
Murdoch owns the WSJ now, yes?
Referring to your earlier post about Murdoch, as well, here...
| 13 |
Dancing along the light of day Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:14:41pm |
That's a nifty way to look at life.
I could try that.
Goodnight, oh, scaly ones.
May your rock be warmed by the sun, and your belly lie flat on it!
Hasta manana!
| 14 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:15:13pm |
Great talking to you all tonight, but I've got an early wakeup tomorrow and I've got to get to bed. Sleep well.
| 15 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:21:07pm |
Those warning stickers that tell you not to overfill gas tanks at the pump?
There's a reason for that.
| 16 |
Bagua Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:22:01pm |
Let’s not look back in anger or forward in fear, but around in awareness. — James Thurber
Perfect.
| 17 |
freetoken Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:23:55pm |
re: #11 iceweasel
Murdoch hasn't found a stupid person yet from which he couldn't take a few bucks...
| 18 |
Silvergirl Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:33:37pm |
Sailing on. Good-night.
Wynken and Blynken are two little eyes,
And Nod is a little head,
And the wooden shoe that sailed the skies
Is a wee one's trundle-bed.
So shut your eyes while mother sings
Of wonderful sights that be,
And you shall see the beautiful things
As you rock in the misty sea,
Where the old shoe rocked the fishermen three:
Wynken,
Blynken,
And Nod.
| 19 |
The Left Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:38:51pm |
Just found this in the Chronicle of Higher Ed, due to freetoken linking something in spinoffs:
About Amy Bishop: Professor Had Raised Concerns About Shooter's Mental Health
Her colleagues agree that she could be unusual. William Setzer, chairman of the chemistry department, recalls that she would interrupt meetings with bizarre tangents, "left field kind of stuff." Robert O. Lawton, a biology professor who was in the room during the shooting but escaped unscathed, also thought she could be strange, but said she wasn't the strangest academic he'd run across in his long career.Another professor, however, has long been wary of Ms. Bishop. He asked The Chronicle not to use his name because, considering recent events, he is worried about his own safety. The professor, who was a member of Ms. Bishop's tenure-review committee, said he first became concerned about Ms. Bishop's mental health "about five minutes after I met her."
The professor said that during a meeting of the tenure-review committee, he expressed his opinion that Ms. Bishop was "crazy." Word of what he said made it back to Ms. Bishop. In September, after her tenure denial, she filed a complaint with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, alleging gender discrimination. The professor's remark was going to be used as possible evidence in that case.
Related Content* Accused Alabama Shooter Was a Bright Scientist With Career Ups and Downs
* Huntsville Official Tried to Calm Amy Bishop in Phone Call About Her Future
* Alabama Shootings: an Afternoon Meeting Turns Deadly
* Commentary: Guidance for Handling Tenure Denial and Mental IllnessIt was then, the professor said, that the associate provost of the university, John Severn, came to him and asked whether he truly believed what he had said about Ms. Bishop. (Reached by phone, Mr. Severn declined to comment.) The professor was given the opportunity to back off the claim, or to say it was a flippant remark. But he didn't. "I said she was crazy multiple times and I stand by that," the professor said. "This woman has a pattern of erratic behavior. She did things that weren't normal."
No one incident stands out, the professor said, but a series of interactions caused him to think she was "out of touch with reality." Once, he said, she "went ballistic" when a grant application being filed on her behalf was turned in late. The professor said he avoided Ms. Bishop whenever he saw her, on or off the campus. When he spotted her not long ago at a Barnes & Noble bookstore, he made sure he was out of sight until she had left the store. He even skipped a faculty retreat because he knew she would be there.
To be clear, it wasn't as if the professor told the university that he thought Ms. Bishop was potentially violent. And, at the time, the university was narrowly focused on the legal fallout from a possible lawsuit by Ms. Bishop, he said.
Word of the professor's opinion about Ms. Bishop's mental health did not make it to the university's president, David B. Williams. The president said a reporter's account was the first he'd heard of it. A spokesman for the university declined to comment, citing the still-active EEOC complaint.
When the professor found out on Friday afternoon that there had been a shooting on the campus, he didn't immediately hear exactly where it happened, who was involved, or whether the shooter was a faculty member, student, or someone from outside the university. Even so, the professor said his first thought was: "Oh my God. I bet it was Amy Bishop."
| 20 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:44:37pm |
OK, this made my night...
On the nullification crisis redux thread... I still can't believe that people in SC would think that way... Andrew Jackson where are you?... but I digress...
Someone commented on seeing the Fnords.
:)
Johnny dillinger died for you!
Hail Eris! Hell Yes!
| 21 |
freetoken Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:45:33pm |
re: #19 iceweasel
If college administrators really want to shake out the nut cases, then they will need to do psych evals on all applicants/new-hires.
That may sound intrusive, but anyone who gets put into a position of authority or influence in many of our institutions (government, medical officers, etc.) get them, or at least a very extensive background investigation.
| 22 |
freetoken Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:48:58pm |
Future art class assignment in South Carolina schools?
| 23 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:50:42pm |
re: #19 iceweasel
There you have it. Proof that she was a loony leftist, socialist sympathizing, Obama supporting, teabagging, right-wing reactionary, so-con.
/wait, what?
| 24 |
The Left Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:54:25pm |
re: #21 freetoken
If college administrators really want to shake out the nut cases, then they will need to do psych evals on all applicants/new-hires.
That may sound intrusive, but anyone who gets put into a position of authority or influence in many of our institutions (government, medical officers, etc.) get them, or at least a very extensive background investigation.
There are nutcases among the students too. And in some universities it is hella difficult to get students help. Many, actually.
Harvard and MIT have vastly different setups for handling students with problems. This book is kind of shitty, but it's useful:
Halfway Heaven
Female student from Ethiopia murdered her female roommate from Vietnam.
There is a story in there about two twins, one of whom went to MIT and one went to Harvard. The twin at MIT was diagnosed bipolar and got treatment and help very quickly. The one at Harvard couldn't get help or support from the admin, despite having his twin's medical records as further proof of his own issues.
| 26 |
Gus Fri, Feb 19, 2010 12:06:17am |
re: #24 iceweasel
There are nutcases among the students too. And in some universities it is hella difficult to get students help. Many, actually.
Harvard and MIT have vastly different setups for handling students with problems. This book is kind of shitty, but it's useful:
Halfway Heaven
Female student from Ethiopia murdered her female roommate from Vietnam.
There is a story in there about two twins, one of whom went to MIT and one went to Harvard. The twin at MIT was diagnosed bipolar and got treatment and help very quickly. The one at Harvard couldn't get help or support from the admin, despite having his twin's medical records as further proof of his own issues.
Psych evaluation and mental health diagnosis? Isn't that like, health care.
No, wait... Tea Party! (vomit)
| 27 |
The Left Fri, Feb 19, 2010 12:12:51am |
re: #21 freetoken
If college administrators really want to shake out the nut cases, then they will need to do psych evals on all applicants/new-hires.
Why universities and not, um, everyone?
besides, it isn't the profs shooting up unis-- it's students.
Amy Bishop is a psycho who had problems since she was 20, it appears. When she killed her brother.
No one could have kept Bishop from killing work colleagues. This is a workplace shooting like any other, and the only reason the wingnut blogs are having ragegasms over it is because they hope it's a proof of a 'lefty extremist' killing people for political reasons.
Not so.
| 29 |
Gus Fri, Feb 19, 2010 12:16:03am |
re: #27 iceweasel
Why universities and not, um, everyone?
besides, it isn't the profs shooting up unis-- it's students.
Amy Bishop is a psycho who had problems since she was 20, it appears. When she killed her brother.
No one could have kept Bishop from killing work colleagues. This is a workplace shooting like any other, and the only reason the wingnut blogs are having ragegasms over it is because they hope it's a proof of a 'lefty extremist' killing people for political reasons.
Not so.
You know what happens once you start mentioning psycho regarding a criminal. All kinds of irrational outrage follows. Which is not to say these people should be punished but I just find it part of a pattern of neglect in society. Or that is blatant disregard for other people even if it means preventing the occasional psycho-path from killing others. We have this Old West mentality that never seems to have gone away and might even be making a comeback.
| 30 |
Gus Fri, Feb 19, 2010 12:17:33am |
re: #28 freetoken
Hey... psych evals for students too!
And bass players! / Actually, I was thinking before. There's another one that fell through the cracks. This country has a lot of mental health issues that are being ignored.
| 31 |
The Left Fri, Feb 19, 2010 12:23:03am |
re: #28 freetoken
Hey... psych evals for students too!
Yeah...we can't do that though, for obvious reasons.
There's also a piece in the Chronicle now about how even though university mental health care has improved in the last 18 years for students, it hasn't for faculty.
| 32 |
The Left Fri, Feb 19, 2010 12:27:23am |
re: #29 Gus 802
You know what happens once you start mentioning psycho regarding a criminal. All kinds of irrational outrage follows. Which is not to say these people should be punished but I just find it part of a pattern of neglect in society. Or that is blatant disregard for other people even if it means preventing the occasional psycho-path from killing others. We have this Old West mentality that never seems to have gone away and might even be making a comeback.
Bishop does appear to have mental health issues, though. She's certainly involved in (and suspected of) some very violent incidents.
Even so, there really doesn't seem to be anything that could have been done to stop her. It's a workplace shooting.
Suppose all workplaces, everywhere, and all schools, searched everyone for weapons on arrival.
That isn't going to happen, and it won't prevent workplace shootings anyway. Recall that the Columbine killers had planted pipe bombs. Their initial plan was to wait in the parking lot and then pick off the fleeing survivors of the bombs-- and kill all emergency rescue workers arriving.
When the bombs didn't detonate, they entered the school.
| 33 |
Gus Fri, Feb 19, 2010 12:27:29am |
re: #28 freetoken
Hey... psych evals for students too!
Sometimes I wonder if people ever stopped to think about what happened at Virginia Tech. Not to stop and think to make self-interested gestures to help them attain a well lit place in the afterlife but to stop and think about the slaughter, maiming and bloodshed that took place on that day. That event was a nightmare beyond any of my wildest. 32 people shot and killed by one crazed young man within minutes. Shot dead like wild animals; an event not unlike those we've seen in wars.
And it didn't begin with Virginia Tech. Nor did it end with Virginia Tech. It seems as though every other month there is a mass shooting of some type involving any type of perpetrator and victim. What happened after Virginia Tech? Not much of anything unless one counts rhetoric. The school settled for 11 million dollars for the slaughter of 32 people which is about 2.9 million dollars per person.
| 34 |
Gus Fri, Feb 19, 2010 12:33:15am |
re: #32 iceweasel
Bishop does appear to have mental health issues, though. She's certainly involved in (and suspected of) some very violent incidents.
Even so, there really doesn't seem to be anything that could have been done to stop her. It's a workplace shooting.
Suppose all workplaces, everywhere, and all schools, searched everyone for weapons on arrival.
That isn't going to happen, and it won't prevent workplace shootings anyway. Recall that the Columbine killers had planted pipe bombs. Their initial plan was to wait in the parking lot and then pick off the fleeing survivors of the bombs-- and kill all emergency rescue workers arriving.
When the bombs didn't detonate, they entered the school.
Yeah, that was the propane bombs that didn't go off.
The psycho-social dynamics that preceded and followed that shooting was rather strange. A few of the victims parents passed away. There was a great deal of family conflicts before that day.
One has to ask if we want to accept a world of zero tolerance. Do we become a police state in order to prevent these tragedies from happening? Is that money better spent on prevention?
| 35 |
The Left Fri, Feb 19, 2010 12:33:24am |
re: #33 Gus 802
The wingnuts say the 'solution' to VA Tech is to allow guns on campus. John Derbyshire wrote a particularly vomitous screed about how the slaughter at VA Tech shows all those kids are 'wimps'-- presumably because they didn't 'take out' the shooter with their bare hands before he gunned them down. (Only cowards get killed, heroes in Wingnuttia deflect all onslaughts with their bare chest, kinda like the Spartans in 300).
Confederate Wankee likewise advocated more guns in public places as a 'soultion'. IIRC he claimed that a mall shooter a couple of years ago would have been 'taken out'-- if only more people in that crowded mall had guns on them, pulled them out and started shooting.
| 37 |
Gus Fri, Feb 19, 2010 12:38:49am |
re: #35 iceweasel
The wingnuts say the 'solution' to VA Tech is to allow guns on campus. John Derbyshire wrote a particularly vomitous screed about how the slaughter at VA Tech shows all those kids are 'wimps'-- presumably because they didn't 'take out' the shooter with their bare hands before he gunned them down. (Only cowards get killed, heroes in Wingnuttia deflect all onslaughts with their bare chest, kinda like the Spartans in 300).
Confederate Wankee likewise advocated more guns in public places as a 'soultion'. IIRC he claimed that a mall shooter a couple of years ago would have been 'taken out'-- if only more people in that crowded mall had guns on them, pulled them out and started shooting.
Fuck John Derbyshire. If one suddenly finds themselves in the midst of an armed ambush in a place we don't expect there isn't much people can do even if they're armed themselves. Life isn't a Rambo movie or any number of westerns were the good guy is the fastest gun in the west. Look at the police massacre that took place in Seattle last year. The officers were well armed and trained.
| 38 |
Gus Fri, Feb 19, 2010 12:40:18am |
re: #35 iceweasel
The wingnuts say the 'solution' to VA Tech is to allow guns on campus. John Derbyshire wrote a particularly vomitous screed about how the slaughter at VA Tech shows all those kids are 'wimps'-- presumably because they didn't 'take out' the shooter with their bare hands before he gunned them down. (Only cowards get killed, heroes in Wingnuttia deflect all onslaughts with their bare chest, kinda like the Spartans in 300).
Confederate Wankee likewise advocated more guns in public places as a 'soultion'. IIRC he claimed that a mall shooter a couple of years ago would have been 'taken out'-- if only more people in that crowded mall had guns on them, pulled them out and started shooting.
Oh, and what would they propose with Amy Bishop? That they held that meeting with her at gun point? Or that they would all put their guns on top of the table like in a Spaghetti Western?
| 39 |
freetoken Fri, Feb 19, 2010 12:40:45am |
This one goes out to all our neo-confederate friends at CPAC:
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freetoken Fri, Feb 19, 2010 12:41:46am |
| 41 |
The Left Fri, Feb 19, 2010 12:41:52am |
re: #34 Gus 802
Yeah, that was the propane bombs that didn't go off.
The psycho-social dynamics that preceded and followed that shooting was rather strange. A few of the victims parents passed away. There was a great deal of family conflicts before that day.
One has to ask if we want to accept a world of zero tolerance. Do we become a police state in order to prevent these tragedies from happening? Is that money better spent on prevention?
We can't prevent work place shootings or a Columbine scenario. We can't. Easy to get guns, and sociopathy is everywhere. Even if we put more strictures on legal gun ownership, that couldn't stop it.
I don't know much about the Columbine dynamics you're mentioning. I do know this excellent piece from Salon in 99 that talks about the work the FBI did after.
Inside the Columbine High investigation
Everything you know about the Littleton killings is wrong. But the truth may be scarier than the myths.
The short version is that Eric Harris was a sociopath-- and we're lucky he killed so few and died when he did.
| 42 |
The Left Fri, Feb 19, 2010 12:44:43am |
re: #37 Gus 802
Fuck John Derbyshire. If one suddenly finds themselves in the midst of an armed ambush in a place we don't expect there isn't much people can do even if they're armed themselves. Life isn't a Rambo movie or any number of westerns were the good guy is the fastest gun in the west. Look at the police massacre that took place in Seattle last year. The officers were well armed and trained.
Derb is a tool who has also proclaimed that it's 'natural' for adult men to want to fuck tennage girls, and I believe he puts the upper limit for female 'fuckability' at about 22.
Here is his wisdom on Va Tech (titled "the Spirit of Self-Defense)
As NRO's designated chickenhawk, let me be the one to ask: Where was the spirit of self-defense here? Setting aside the ludicrous campus ban on licensed conceals, why didn't anyone rush the guy? It's not like this was Rambo, hosing the place down with automatic weapons. He had two handguns for goodness' sake—one of them reportedly a .22.
At the very least, count the shots and jump him reloading or changing hands. Better yet, just jump him. Handguns aren't very accurate, even at close range. I shoot mine all the time at the range, and I still can't hit squat. I doubt this guy was any better than I am. And even if hit, a .22 needs to find something important to do real damage—your chances aren't bad.
Yes, yes, I know it's easy to say these things: but didn't the heroes of Flight 93 teach us anything? As the cliche goes—and like most cliches. It's true—none of us knows what he'd do in a dire situation like that. I hope, however, that if I thought I was going to die anyway, I'd at least take a run at the guy.
| 43 |
Gus Fri, Feb 19, 2010 12:47:19am |
re: #41 iceweasel
The short version is that Eric Harris was a sociopath-- and we're lucky he killed so few and died when he did.
True. Sometimes I wonder why there aren't many more mass shooting with greater casualties considering the common place nature of sociopathic behavior. I'm not a fan of Gore Vidal in many cases but I agree with him when he said that America is a death cult. In many ways it is. The most popular literature is (or was) crime novels. The most popular television programs are crime stories. The most popular TV documentaries on shows like 20/20 deal with crime, vice, and homicide. Crime is well ingrained within the cultural fabric of this nation.
| 44 |
The Left Fri, Feb 19, 2010 12:49:22am |
Wait-- correction. I meant to link this article from 2004 by the same guy:
At last we know why the Columbine Killers Did It
| 45 |
Gus Fri, Feb 19, 2010 12:50:02am |
re: #42 iceweasel
They actually "printed" that at NRO? What a bunch of garbage. He doesn't even take into consideration that the victims were children. Yes, children despite their teen years. Maybe he can think... Oh never mind, fuck him. Wingnuts are crazy.
| 46 |
The Left Fri, Feb 19, 2010 12:51:15am |
re: #45 Gus 802
They actually "printed" that at NRO? What a bunch of garbage. He doesn't even take into consideration that the victims were children. Yes, children despite their teen years. Maybe he can think... Oh never mind, fuck him. Wingnuts are crazy.
Yeah. I didn't link because I hate NRO and Derb. Anyone can find it via google.
BTW, I posted the full text of that post of his. There IS no other context.
| 47 |
The Left Fri, Feb 19, 2010 12:53:47am |
re: #43 Gus 802
True. Sometimes I wonder why there aren't many more mass shooting with greater casualties considering the common place nature of sociopathic behavior. I'm not a fan of Gore Vidal in many cases but I agree with him when he said that America is a death cult. In many ways it is. The most popular literature is (or was) crime novels. The most popular television programs are crime stories. The most popular TV documentaries on shows like 20/20 deal with crime, vice, and homicide. Crime is well ingrained within the cultural fabric of this nation.
i didn't know Vidal had said that. He annoys me so I don't pay too much attention to him. What's the deal?
But yeah, even Christopher Lasch in the 70's was referring to America as the Culture of Narcissism. I can see the death cult stuff emerging out of that pretty easily.
| 48 |
Gus Fri, Feb 19, 2010 12:58:14am |
re: #47 iceweasel
i didn't know Vidal had said that. He annoys me so I don't pay too much attention to him. What's the deal?
But yeah, even Christopher Lasch in the 70's was referring to America as the Culture of Narcissism. I can see the death cult stuff emerging out of that pretty easily.
I forgot when he said that. Might have been on the Merv Griffin Show.
Could be in part due to a culture of narcissism. There's also that wild-west romance which is effectively glorifying the rampant violence of the untamed west. Then we have Cowboys and Indian -- so to speak. The glorification of the slaughter that was the Civil War. The allure of the mafia during the days of prohibition. Look at the popularity of The Godfather, Goodfellas, and The Sopranos. We secretly idolize murderers.
| 49 |
The Left Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:06:58am |
re: #48 Gus 802
I forgot when he said that. Might have been on the Merv Griffin Show.
Could be in part due to a culture of narcissism. There's also that wild-west romance which is effectively glorifying the rampant violence of the untamed west. Then we have Cowboys and Indian -- so to speak. The glorification of the slaughter that was the Civil War. The allure of the mafia during the days of prohibition. Look at the popularity of The Godfather, Goodfellas, and The Sopranos. We secretly idolize murderers.
Oh yeah. BTW, the central characteristics of sociopaths are, basically, lack of empathy and narcissism.
It's easy to see how they tie in. Consuming self-interest prohibits the development of empathy. Sociopaths laugh at (and manipulate) the emotions of others-- pity, empathy, sympathy, compassion. For the sociopath those are weaknesses to exploit and a source of contempt.
They have some other features as well, like need for excitement, compulsive rule breaking, hatred of authority (when applied to them) and simultaneously worshipping power--
The DSM IV is in revision now; the APA just proposed changes. They're making changes to the diagnostic criteria for sociopathy and eliminating narcissism as a separate personality disorder. Link here-- they're soliciting comment.
But there's no doubt that America and 'American values' encourage sociopathy and narcissism-- I scare quote 'american values' there because it isn't american, per se, but a kind of mindset.
And as for physical violence-- yeah. We worship that. Some of it is Old West stuff, some of it is about ideas of masculinity.
| 50 |
Gus Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:14:59am |
re: #49 iceweasel
Oh yeah. BTW, the central characteristics of sociopaths are, basically, lack of empathy and narcissism.
It's easy to see how they tie in. Consuming self-interest prohibits the development of empathy. Sociopaths laugh at (and manipulate) the emotions of others-- pity, empathy, sympathy, compassion. For the sociopath those are weaknesses to exploit and a source of contempt.They have some other features as well, like need for excitement, compulsive rule breaking, hatred of authority (when applied to them) and simultaneously worshipping power--
The DSM IV is in revision now; the APA just proposed changes. They're making changes to the diagnostic criteria for sociopathy and eliminating narcissism as a separate personality disorder. Link here-- they're soliciting comment.But there's no doubt that America and 'American values' encourage sociopathy and narcissism-- I scare quote 'american values' there because it isn't american, per se, but a kind of mindset.
And as for physical violence-- yeah. We worship that. Some of it is Old West stuff, some of it is about ideas of masculinity.
Right, I saw that the DSM IV is about to be revised and was soliciting comments from professionals. Was going to mention it last week. In simple terms when narcissism is so strong and combined with sociopathy there is no regard for the victim. Narcissism also does not correlate with a higher intellect and has varying degrees. Found alone many people that could be called narcissists well adjusted in society.
It's natural that we say "American values" because we live in the USA. Our concerns are with those aspects of life found within our borders. While there are other similar examples or far more worse examples found around the world that doesn't change the fact that we have our own set of problems that must be dealt with. Otherwise we would find ourselves thinking "things are much worse in country-x" That would lead to apathy and inaction. My interests lie within this nation and not so much other countries of which I have zero influence or control.
| 51 |
The Left Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:21:23am |
re: #50 Gus 802
Right, I saw that the DSM IV is about to be revised and was soliciting comments from professionals. Was going to mention it last week. In simple terms when narcissism is so strong and combined with sociopathy there is no regard for the victim. Narcissism also does not correlate with a higher intellect and has varying degrees. Found alone many people that could be called narcissists well adjusted in society.
I think that's one reason why they're dumping it as a stand-alone diagnosis. It isn't in the WHO psych standards, for one. It's so often co-morbid with other diagnoses, for another.
The traits that go with "NPD" can often make for someone who is 'high-functioning' in the psych (and societal) sense-- lots of people could be diagnosed with it but don't have a 'problem'. Surgeons for one major occupation. Well adapted, basically. Lots of others.
NPD is the pop-psych diagnosis for at least ten years for people who hate their exes and want a label to tag on them, kind of.
| 52 |
Gus Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:27:29am |
re: #51 iceweasel
I think that's one reason why they're dumping it as a stand-alone diagnosis. It isn't in the WHO psych standards, for one. It's so often co-morbid with other diagnoses, for another.
The traits that go with "NPD" can often make for someone who is 'high-functioning' in the psych (and societal) sense-- lots of people could be diagnosed with it but don't have a 'problem'. Surgeons for one major occupation. Well adapted, basically. Lots of others.
NPD is the pop-psych diagnosis for at least ten years for people who hate their exes and want a label to tag on them, kind of.
We'll see what happens after this revision. Usually after they revise the DSM IV some controversy follows.
| 53 |
The Left Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:33:02am |
re: #52 Gus 802
We'll see what happens after this revision. Usually after they revise the DSM IV some controversy follows.
Definitely. Some revisions proposed for autism/Aspergers-- I expect the major (publicised) blowups to happen over that.
| 54 |
Tigger2005 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:35:58am |
I've had a little mini-"debate" on AGW with a friend of a friend on her Facebook page. This guy is fond of making snarky comments about AGW whenever a snowflake falls. I got fed up with it and did a longish post explaining that a heavy wet snowfall is caused by the air being warmer, not cooler, and that while this doesn't in itself "prove" AGW, perhaps he should have a bit more respect for scientists who know a lot more about the subject than he does, because would he laugh off his mechanic when he tries to tell him what's wrong with his car?
His reply was a joke. First he said, basically, that his mechanic has a vested interest in correctly diagnosing what's wrong with his car (apparently he's never heard of dishonest mechanics) while scientists are just making shit up to get grant money. Then, astonishingly, he brought ABORTION into it! He said, "If you want to have so much faith in science then why don't you accept the evidence that a baby's heart is beating at 21 days". Apparently, if you don't agree with him on everything, you must be his flaming liberal opposite.
He followed up by saying there is NO evidence that humans are causing global warming, and added that he was willing to bet he had more respect for science than me, since he was married to "one of the area's top science teachers".
In my response I mentioned that accusing thousands of scientists of engaging in a vast conspiracy to mislead the public in order to keep the grant money flowing doesn't show much respect for science...
| 56 |
Gus Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:42:16am |
re: #54 Tigger2005
Part of what they experienced during the snow storms back east was snowstorm thunder or thundersnow. That indicates a warm layer above.
| 57 |
The Left Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:44:16am |
re: #54 Tigger2005
First he said, basically, that his mechanic has a vested interest in correctly diagnosing what's wrong with his car (apparently he's never heard of dishonest mechanics) while scientists are just making shit up to get grant money.
Well, that's a giant fail right there. It's too late for me to get into why that's so, but Obdicut and LVQ have posted about this in detail.
Then, astonishingly, he brought ABORTION into it! He said, "If you want to have so much faith in science then why don't you accept the evidence that a baby's heart is beating at 21 days".
Right, right-- not astonishing at all. Lot of crossover among AGW deniers, creationists, and anti-choice tards. Ask him why he doesn't 'accept the scientific evidence' that neither birth control nor emergency contraception are 'abortion' if you just want to see him froth. Alternatively, ask him why he thinks a beating heart="life"-- and then ask for proof on that.
Apparently, if you don't agree with him on everything, you must be his flaming liberal opposite.
No, he just wants to hate science when it suits him, and worship bad science when it suits him. Ask him why he believes those tricksy scientists who say a heart is beating at 21 days (really? lol), and disbelieves them when they tell him AGW is real.
| 58 |
Gus Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:48:22am |
re: #57 iceweasel
No, he just wants to hate science when it suits him, and worship bad science when it suits him. Ask him why he believes those tricksy scientists who say a heart is beating at 21 days (really? lol), and disbelieves them when they tell him AGW is real.
Isn't that called creating a strawman?
"Aha! So, you have so much faith in science then why don't you care about the science that proves that fetuses heart is beating at 21 weeks!1111!!!"
| 59 |
The Left Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:53:22am |
re: #58 Gus 802
Isn't that called creating a strawman?
"Aha! So, you have so much faith in science then why don't you care about the science that proves that fetuses heart is beating at 21 weeks!1111!!!"
Right, right.
Tell me why life begins with a beating heart.
Now tell me why the potential life of a fetus deserves more protection, and more rights, than the actual living human impregnated.
I tell you, it's harder and harder to deny the old conclusion I had at 15 that religious wingnuts value the potential life of a potentially male fetal-American over the actual life and actual rights of a Vagina-American.
| 60 |
Gus Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:55:35am |
re: #59 iceweasel
Right, right.
Tell me why life begins with a beating heart.
Now tell me why the potential life of a fetus deserves more protection, and more rights, than the actual living human impregnated.I tell you, it's harder and harder to deny the old conclusion I had at 15 that religious wingnuts value the potential life of a potentially male fetal-American over the actual life and actual rights of a Vagina-American.
Yeah. All this concern about abortions yet fuck everyone that doesn't have health insurance and dies an early death. All in the name of saving money while we spend trillions on being the world's policeman. Yep, I said that.
| 61 |
The Left Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:57:16am |
re: #60 Gus 802
Yeah. All this concern about abortions yet fuck everyone that doesn't have health insurance and dies an early death. All in the name of saving money while we spend trillions on being the world's policeman. Yep, I said that.
Yep, I updinged you. Ayup.
Team America: World Police!
America--fuck yeah!
| 62 |
Gus Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:01:16am |
re: #61 iceweasel
Yep, I updinged you. Ayup.
Team America: World Police!
America--fuck yeah!
[Video]
Drill here! Drill now! Until then we'll hold hands with the Saudi King and provide them with the 5th and 6th Fleets for naval protection.
| 63 |
The Left Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:03:03am |
re: #62 Gus 802
Drill here! Drill now! Until then we'll hold hands with the Saudi King and provide them with the 5th and 6th Fleets for naval protection.
When we're not also kissing them.
Image: 293457625_10b568f7c7.jpg
OuTRaGE!11!
| 64 |
Tigger2005 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:03:57am |
re: #60 Gus 802
Yeah. All this concern about abortions yet fuck everyone that doesn't have health insurance and dies an early death. All in the name of saving money while we spend trillions on being the world's policeman. Yep, I said that.
Well, I'm not a fan of socialist solutions to health care, nor do I see we have any choice but to be the world's policeman (not to mention the world's EMS response team) if no one else will step up to the plate. But I refuse to engage in intellectual dishonesty and denial.
| 65 |
Gus Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:04:29am |
re: #61 iceweasel
Yep, I updinged you. Ayup.
Team America: World Police!
America--fuck yeah!
[Video]
| 66 |
The Left Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:05:07am |
re: #64 Tigger2005
Well, I'm not a fan of socialist solutions to health care
Cool.
The US proposals for HC reform aren't in any way 'socialist'. I assume you know that.
| 67 |
Gus Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:06:18am |
re: #63 iceweasel
When we're not also kissing them.
[Link: farm1.static.flickr.com...]OuTRaGE!11!
Woot!
| 68 |
The Left Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:07:14am |
re: #67 Gus 802
Whoa this is great-- total flashback to teenage years, hee!
| 69 |
Tigger2005 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:07:52am |
Actually, I didn't really think it was astonishing that he brought abortion into it...guess I was just trying to emphasize the ridiculousness of his response. I'm familiar from debating evolution deniers what kind of absurd, completely off topic statements folks like this will make, as if it somehow advances their argument.
| 70 |
Gus Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:08:06am |
re: #68 iceweasel
Whoa this is great-- total flashback to teenage years, hee!
I'm in that mood. I won't mention international military socialism. ;)
| 71 |
The Left Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:10:13am |
re: #69 Tigger2005
Actually, I didn't really think it was astonishing that he brought abortion into it...guess I was just trying to emphasize the ridiculousness of his response. I'm familiar from debating evolution deniers what kind of absurd, completely off topic statements folks like this will make, as if it somehow advances their argument.
Right-- but obviously abortion is something totally off topic, and the only bit that's amazing is that your friend doesn't get the total hypocrisy of rejecting good science on the one hand (AGW) and then appealing to bad science (LIFE BEGINS WITH A BEATING HEART!) on the other.
| 72 |
The Left Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:11:22am |
re: #70 Gus 802
I'm in that mood. I won't mention international military socialism. ;)
ooh, go on, do. :)
| 73 |
Gus Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:15:07am |
re: #72 iceweasel
ooh, go on, do. :)
Well, many of the wingnuts want to get rid of the UN. They're basically the world policeman. Yet at the same time they want to maintain our role as the world's policeman. This also extends into the anti-NATO stance and anti-European stance. Effectively then they're not really supporting being the world's policeman but using that as ploy to support militarism not for the sake of other nations interests but the traditional American interests. There's nothing altruistic about it. And it comes with a hefty price tag. Seems like a case of wanting to have ones cake and eat it too.
| 74 |
The Left Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:17:24am |
re: #71 iceweasel
Right-- but obviously abortion is something totally off topic, and the only bit that's amazing is that your friend doesn't get the total hypocrisy of rejecting good science on the one hand (AGW) and then appealing to bad science (LIFE BEGINS WITH A BEATING HEART!) on the other.
Also, it's so bad from so many ways it's almost too easy to attack. Does your friend reject the use of pacemakers? Why not? If the heart stops or stutters, didn't 'life' stop? How about CPR? How about -- oh lord.
God grant me the serenity to accept the wingnuts I cannot change,
the courage and endurance to change the wingnuts I can,
and the wisdom and patience not to beat the living hell out of them in general.
| 75 |
Gus Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:21:37am |
re: #74 iceweasel
Also, it's so bad from so many ways it's almost too easy to attack. Does your friend reject the use of pacemakers? Why not? If the heart stops or stutters, didn't 'life' stop? How about CPR? How about -- oh lord.
God grant me the serenity to accept the wingnuts I cannot change,
the courage and endurance to change the wingnuts I can,
and the wisdom and patience not to beat the living hell out of them in general.
Don't worry. In a couple of hours the Neo-Geller reports on the latest Islamic transgressions will return. /
| 76 |
The Left Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:25:16am |
re: #73 Gus 802
Well, many of the wingnuts want to get rid of the UN. They're basically the world policeman. Yet at the same time they want to maintain our role as the world's policeman. This also extends into the anti-NATO stance and anti-European stance. Effectively then they're not really supporting being the world's policeman but using that as ploy to support militarism not for the sake of other nations interests but the traditional American interests. ere's nothing altruistic about it. And it comes with a hefty price tag. Seems like a case of wanting to have ones cake and eat it too.
Basically, yeah. I have a lot of issues with the UN. Anyone who watched Rwanda would. And the 'peacekeeping' forces in Africa have been mixed up with some really vicious crimes-- rape, primarily.
But the idea that the US has surrendered sovereignty to the UN (or would) is laughable. We do what we want! (cue Cartman on Jerry Springer).
| 77 |
Gus Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:33:25am |
re: #76 iceweasel
Basically, yeah. I have a lot of issues with the UN. Anyone who watched Rwanda would. And the 'peacekeeping' forces in Africa have been mixed up with some really vicious crimes-- rape, primarily.
But the idea that the US has surrendered sovereignty to the UN (or would) is laughable. We do what we want! (cue Cartman on Jerry Springer).
The UN follows the money just as much as we do. There was no money interest in Rwanda. It could be money or resources but it rarely follows the interests of human life unless it is protracted and correlates with a massive public outcry. Even then that usually doesn't matter. There's this big myth about us being the hard guy in the world but look at the slow response to Iran and North Korea. Until they directly threat the US or US interests they'll keep dragging their feet. Just ask the Kurds. Whatever you do don't ask the East Timorese.
| 78 |
The Left Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:35:50am |
Rwanda is instructive in many ways. Not only for the failure of the UN (and US) to act, not only for what happened there-- but also, I've pointed a lot of people who adhered to carol gilligan's (and others) notion of a 'female ethic' to the behaviour of Pauline Nyiramasuhuko.
More from wiki:
Pauline Nyiramasuhuko is an ex-minister for family and women's affairs in Rwanda who is suspected of having incited troops and militia to rape thousands of women. In particular she is credited with having orchestrated a trap in the village of Butare, where she promised besieged residents food and shelter in a local stadium; upon their arrival refugees were raped, tortured, and killed (Zimbardo 2007, p. 13). Nyiramasuhuko is said to have told militiamen "before you kill the women, you need to rape them" (Zimbardo 2007, p. 13). In this incident Nyiramasuhuko allegedly ordered that a group of 70 women and girls be raped and then set afire (Zimbardo 2007, p. 13). She and her son are currently on trial by the International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda.
Notice that her office was "family and women's affairs".
A genocidal version of Atwood's Handmaid's Tale.
| 79 |
Gus Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:37:34am |
Comfort girl Matt Drudge links to neo-nazi Pat Buchanan:
Buchanan: 'America faces a crisis of democracy'; Predicts a paralyzed gov't...
| 80 |
The Left Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:42:48am |
re: #79 Gus 802
Comfort girl Matt Drudge links to neo-nazi Pat Buchanan:
I should (but I won't) downding you for 'comfort girl'. 1) Drudge likes what he's doing and chooses it. 2) Comfort women really isn't funny, given that even now the actual 'comfort women' still don't have reparations, or acknowldgement, and the Japanese want to cover it up in their textbooks.
Humourless lib hat off, though, updinged, and it is fucking hilarious to call drudge a comfort girl. i prefer 'fluffer'. Drudge is a fluffer and Politico and others whore for drudge links.
| 81 |
Gus Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:43:38am |
re: #78 iceweasel
Rwanda is instructive in many ways. Not only for the failure of the UN (and US) to act, not only for what happened there-- but also, I've pointed a lot of people who adhered to carol gilligan's (and others) notion of a 'female ethic' to the behaviour of Pauline Nyiramasuhuko.
More from wiki:
Notice that her office was "family and women's affairs".A genocidal version of Atwood's Handmaid's Tale.
Night Ice.
You know. I thought the Wingnuts changed but I was wrong. After seeing the CPAC speakers today and seeing that old dinosaur Phyllis Schlafly dragged out that confirms it...
| 82 |
The Left Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:45:11am |
re: #81 Gus 802
Night Ice.
You know. I thought the Wingnuts changed but I was wrong. After seeing the CPAC speakers today and seeing that old dinosaur Phyllis Schlafly dragged out that confirms it...
Night Gus. :)
Kinda amazing about Schlafley-- all the old culture warriors are new again. What Ever Happened to Baby Phyillis? Yikes.
| 83 |
Gus Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:46:23am |
re: #80 iceweasel
I should (but I won't) downding you for 'comfort girl'. 1) Drudge likes what he's doing and chooses it. 2) Comfort women really isn't funny, given that even now the actual 'comfort women' still don't have reparations, or acknowldgement, and the Japanese want to cover it up in their textbooks.
Humourless lib hat off, though, updinged, and it is fucking hilarious to call drudge a comfort girl. i prefer 'fluffer'. Drudge is a fluffer and Politico and others whore for drudge links.
Yeah, I know. I'm in kind of pissed mood. Kind of tired of it all and by all that includes my infection health thing and my neck that feels like Tennis Elbow. All the while not having enough work to keep up while watching the rest of this wingnut bullshit and nothing coming out of DC.
| 84 |
Gus Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:47:22am |
re: #82 iceweasel
Night Gus. :)
Kinda amazing about Schlafley-- all the old culture warriors are new again. What Ever Happened to Baby Phyillis? Yikes.
If I were healthy I'd leave the USA and get away from this bucolic nightmare. At least for a short while.
| 87 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:56:21am |
You can swim all day
And stay drunk all the time...
| 88 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:58:55am |
Good Morning Lizards!
Is it safe? Ice, you and Gus done with your two-minutes of hate the USA?
//
| 89 |
The Left Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:01:24am |
re: #88 rwdflynavy
Good Morning Lizards!
Is it safe? Ice, you and Gus done with your two-minutes of hate the USA?
//
Hush, we're busy now with the Four Hour Free Love. No wingnuts invited. ///
| 90 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:01:43am |
Much like CPAC, the Winter Olympics have very few people of color. Just sayin'.:)
| 91 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:02:16am |
re: #90 Cannadian Club Akbar
Much like CPAC, the Winter Olympics have very few people of color. Just sayin'.:)
Hey, where is the Jamaican bobsled team this year?
//
| 92 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:08:07am |
re: #91 rwdflynavy
Did you see the thread the other day about the Hamas or Hezbollah leader that was assasinated?
| 93 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:09:05am |
re: #33 Gus 802
Sometimes I wonder if people ever stopped to think about what happened at Virginia Tech. Not to stop and think to make self-interested gestures to help them attain a well lit place in the afterlife but to stop and think about the slaughter, maiming and bloodshed that took place on that day. That event was a nightmare beyond any of my wildest. 32 people shot and killed by one crazed young man within minutes. Shot dead like wild animals; an event not unlike those we've seen in wars.
And it didn't begin with Virginia Tech. Nor did it end with Virginia Tech. It seems as though every other month there is a mass shooting of some type involving any type of perpetrator and victim. What happened after Virginia Tech? Not much of anything unless one counts rhetoric. The school settled for 11 million dollars for the slaughter of 32 people which is about 2.9 million dollars per person.
How come these killings tend to happen at schools? Don't these folks read the signs!?! How hard is it to simply obey the rules! Gun Free Zone means Gun Free Zone you idiots!
//
| 94 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:09:57am |
re: #92 Cannadian Club Akbar
Did you see the thread the other day about the Hamas or Hezbollah leader that was assasinated?
Yes, I was in that one. Walter wasn't happy about the killing and I was very happy!
| 95 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:10:57am |
re: #92 Cannadian Club Akbar
Did you see the thread the other day about the Hamas or Hezbollah leader that was assasinated?
Wait,
Are you saying the Jamaican's are involved in the killing? This is even more conspiratorial than I thought!!!
| 96 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:12:24am |
re: #94 rwdflynavy
Yes, I was in that one. Walter wasn't happy about the killing and I was very happy!
I only read a handful of comments since I wasn't here for the thread. Now interpol is involved, France and the UK are pissed. Everyone pointing at the Mossad and the Mossad isn't talking about it.
| 97 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:13:28am |
re: #95 rwdflynavy
Wait,
Are you saying the Jamaican's are involved in the killing? This is even more conspiratorial than I thought!!!
The assasins DID wear disguises. We just didn't know how good they were!
| 99 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:13:59am |
re: #96 Cannadian Club Akbar
I only read a handful of comments since I wasn't here for the thread. Now interpol is involved, France and the UK are pissed. Everyone pointing at the Mossad and the Mossad isn't talking about it.
If the Mossad did this and didn't want anyone to know, we wouldn't.
Either they intend folks to know or someone else is working hard to make it look that way.
| 100 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:14:19am |
| 101 |
RogueOne Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:15:03am |
re: #100 rwdflynavy
How's navy life? You prepping for the move?
| 102 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:15:04am |
re: #99 rwdflynavy
Agreed. The Mossad doesn't play games.
| 103 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:16:22am |
re: #101 RogueOne
How's navy life? You prepping for the move?
Yep,
I've got to move up mid-April. Family will stay til June, then we try to rent our house. I think I'm going to stay in one of those economy Extended Stay places in the DC are for a couple months.
| 104 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:17:53am |
re: #103 rwdflynavy
Yep,
I've got to move up mid-April. Family will stay til June, then we try to rent our house. I think I'm going to stay in one of those economy Extended Stay places in the DC are for a couple months.
The Navy does throw you a few bucks for off base lodging, correct?
| 105 |
RogueOne Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:18:36am |
re: #84 Gus 802
If I were healthy I'd leave the USA and get away from this bucolic nightmare. At least for a short while.
Yeah, because politics is so much more genteel and honest everywhere else in the world. Politicians have always been nothing but nice and honorable until the U.S. managed to screw it all up.
| 106 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:18:53am |
re: #92 Cannadian Club Akbar
Did you see the thread the other day about the Hamas or Hezbollah leader that was assasinated?
Speaking of the devil,...
He said Interpol should now seek out those those responsible and called for "a red notice against the head of Mossad" to be issued.
He said: "Our investigations reveal that Mossad is involved in the murder of (Mahmoud) al-Mabhouh. It is 99 percent, if not 100 percent, that Mossad is standing behind the murder."
Israel has maintained its "policy of ambiguity" on security, refusing to confirm the involvement of Mossad, which is now run by former army general Meir Dagan.
Interpol has now issued warrants for the 11 members of the alleged hit squad who used false EU passports, including British ones, to travel to Dubai in order to kill al-Mabhouh.
David Miliband, the Foreign Secretary, has described the use of fake British passports in the assassination as an "outrage" and has said he remains determined to "get to the bottom of" the affair.
SNIP
I wonder how much outrage Miliband felt while Hamas was raining rockets down on Sderot over the years.
| 108 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:23:41am |
re: #106 MandyManners
The report came several hours after a 20-minute meeting in London between Israeli Ambassador Ron Prosor and a senior British diplomat on Thursday, over the fake British passports apparently used in the assassination of Hamas military commander Mahmoud al-Mabhouh in Dubai.
According to the UK newspaper, a British security source quoted a Mossad agent as saying that "the British Government was told very, very briefly before the operation what was going to happen."
The British security source explained that the tip-off was not a request for permission to use British passports but more a 'courtesy call' to inform British security services know 'a situation' might blow up.
"There was no British involvement and they didn't know the name of the target. But they were told these people were traveling on UK passports," the British security source was quoted as telling the Daily Mail.
The Mossad man said Israeli intelligence chiefs understand British authorities will have to 'slap them on the wrist' and reportedly added: "The British government has to be seen to be going through the motions."
SNIP
| 109 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:23:47am |
re: #104 Cannadian Club Akbar
The Navy does throw you a few bucks for off base lodging, correct?
Only for a few days when I move the family, the rest is on me. The Navy's way of looking at things is that waiting to move my family for school year stuff is my decision and not their problem (I agree, but don't have to like eating the cost!).
| 110 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:25:07am |
This guy, not Mossad.
[Link: news.sky.com...]
| 111 |
RogueOne Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:25:09am |
re: #107 MandyManners
I saw that on Reason yesterday. Very funny.
| 112 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:27:09am |
re: #110 Cannadian Club Akbar
This guy, not Mossad.
[Link: news.sky.com...]
I wonder what the story is behind it.
| 114 |
RogueOne Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:28:30am |
Suit: Pa. school used webcams to spy on students
[Link: news.yahoo.com...]
PHILADELPHIA – A suburban Philadelphia school district used the webcams in school-issued laptops to spy on students at home, potentially catching them and their families in compromising situations, a family claims in a federal lawsuit.
.........
The Robbinses said they learned of the alleged webcam images when Lindy Matsko, an assistant principal at Harriton High School, told their son Blake that school officials thought he had engaged in improper behavior at home. The behavior was not specified in the suit."(Matsko) cited as evidence a photograph from the webcam embedded in minor plaintiff's personal laptop issued by the school district," the suit states. The behavior was not specified in the suit, which did not make clear whether the family had seen any photographs captured by school officials.
Just, wow.
| 115 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:32:02am |
re: #114 RogueOne
In the UK they were talking about putting CCTV in homes of problem children. Not sure what ever came of it. The whole laptop story you posted pisses me off.
| 116 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:37:12am |
re: #114 RogueOne
Suit: Pa. school used webcams to spy on students
[Link: news.yahoo.com...]
Just, wow.
If those devices were activated without notification to the students, heads should roll.
| 117 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:37:59am |
re: #115 Cannadian Club Akbar
In the UK they were talking about putting CCTV in homes of problem children. Not sure what ever came of it. The whole laptop story you posted pisses me off.
Nanny-cams for the Nanny State.
| 118 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:39:09am |
Not getting tenure will not cause one to suddenly "snap" and "get" schizophrenia.
| 119 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:39:29am |
re: #116 MandyManners
If those devices were activated without notification to the students, heads should roll.
I would point the lap top cam to the TV and play a loop of "A Clockwork Orange."
| 120 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:40:22am |
re: #118 MandyManners
Not getting tenure will not cause one to suddenly "snap" and "get" schizophrenia.
Have you ever not gotten tenure? HUH?
/
| 121 |
RogueOne Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:40:38am |
OTOH, thank goodness for cellphone cameras.
[Link: www.myfoxmemphis.com...]
CLARKSDALE, Miss. - A Clarksdale family says police went too far during the arrest of a family member, and they say the video they shot proves it. It all started with a traffic stop and ended with more than half a dozen arrests.
......
Craig Haynes, the oldest of Lisa's three sons, was on the front porch with Steven and their youngest brother, Keith, when police pulled over and arrested their cousin.According to Craig and Keith, that's when an officer standing in front of their house told them to go inside.
Keith Haynes, Craig and Steven's youngest brother, says, "We were watching to see what they do to my cousin. The cop guy, he just started to talk and told us to get our *** in the house. My brother was like, we are on private property and don't have to. We're at home!"
| 122 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:41:14am |
re: #119 Cannadian Club Akbar
I would point the lap top cam to the TV and play a loop of "A Clockwork Orange."
Maybe a porn flick, too.
| 123 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:41:50am |
re: #120 Cannadian Club Akbar
Have you ever not gotten tenure? HUH?
/
I read an article about her attorney who's now saying she's nuts. Hold on.
| 124 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:42:21am |
A local restaurant group is expanding to Oklahoma. I've always thought of moving there.
| 125 |
RogueOne Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:43:54am |
re: #124 Cannadian Club Akbar
Don't think about it too hard, unless you really need that job.
| 126 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:44:55am |
re: #125 RogueOne
Don't think about it too hard, unless you really need that job.
I could actually live in the mid west, but not in a big city.
| 127 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:45:03am |
Life intrudes Lizards.
Stay Scaly!
| 128 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:45:13am |
Amy Bishop, who has a doctorate from Harvard University and has taught at the University of Alabama in Huntsville since 2003, has severe mental problems that appear to be paranoid schizophrenia, said Roy W. Miller, her court-appointed attorney.
Miller spoke in an interview with The Associated Press on the same day hundreds of mourners attended the first funeral and memorial services for Bishop's slain co-workers.
Bishop's failure to obtain tenure at the University of Alabama in Huntsville was likely a key to the shootings last Friday, Miller said. Miller said the Harvard-educated Bishop apparently was incensed that a lesser-known school rejected her for what amounted to a lifetime job.
"Obviously she was very distraught and concerned over that tenure," Miller said. "It insulted her and slapped her in the face, and it's probably tied in with the Harvard mentality. She brooded and brooded and brooded over it, and then, 'bingo.'"
SNIP
| 129 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:46:20am |
re: #124 Cannadian Club Akbar
A local restaurant group is expanding to Oklahoma. I've always thought of moving there.
It's a beautitful place, especially the farther east you go.
| 130 |
RogueOne Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:46:45am |
This is good news.
North Carolina man exonerated after 17 yearsGregory Taylor was convicted in 1993 of killing a prostitute. A state innocence panel unanimously rules that he didn't. It is the first exoneration by the only such agency in the U.S.
On Wednesday, Taylor was a free man, the first convicted felon in U.S. history to be exonerated by a state-mandated innocence commission.
A three-judge panel unanimously ruled that Taylor, 47, had been wrongly convicted in 1993 of murdering Jacquetta Thomas. The judges heard six days of testimony under a 2006 state law that created the North Carolina Innocence Inquiry Commission to investigate claims of innocence by convicted felons.
Every state should have one of these commissions.
| 131 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:48:00am |
"It insulted her and slapped her in the face, and it's probably tied in with the Harvard mentality. She brooded and brooded and brooded over it, and then, 'bingo.'"
So, Harvard mentality. Guess she was pissed she couldn't get tenure at an institution that taught rednecks. Heh.
| 132 |
RogueOne Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:48:14am |
re: #126 Cannadian Club Akbar
It's more west than mid-west. I couldn't stand it. I need a lot of people around, once you get outside the city you're in the middle of nowhere. Although, there did seem to be an inordinate amount of attractive women running around, if you dig hillbilly chicks and all.
| 133 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:48:25am |
re: #130 RogueOne
This is good news.
Every state should have one of these commissions.
What about the rule of law? Isn't a jury charged with determining the facts?
| 134 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:49:06am |
re: #131 Cannadian Club Akbar
"It insulted her and slapped her in the face, and it's probably tied in with the Harvard mentality. She brooded and brooded and brooded over it, and then, 'bingo.'"
So, Harvard mentality. Guess she was pissed she couldn't get tenure at an institution that taught rednecks. Heh.
I'm chuckling trying to see how that defense will go over in Huntsville.
| 135 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:49:33am |
re: #132 RogueOne
It's more west than mid-west. I couldn't stand it. I need a lot of people around, once you get outside the city you're in the middle of nowhere. Although, there did seem to be an inordinate amount of attractive women running around, if you dig hillbilly chicks and all.
*ahem*
| 136 |
RogueOne Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:51:48am |
re: #133 MandyManners
What about the rule of law? Isn't a jury charged with determining the facts?
You would think but since they're only getting the "facts" the prosecutors, judges, and defense atty's decide, they're in a tough spot. Add to that that most people take the police and prosecutors word at face-value and it raises the question of exactly how many innocent people do we have behind bars.
Once the legal system has done it's job it's up to the elected officials to make sure justice has been served but since most governors don't want anyone to be able to accuse them of being soft on criminals they're pretty hesitant to step in. Except Huckabee of course and we know how that worked out.
| 137 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:52:27am |
re: #132 RogueOne
It's more west than mid-west. I couldn't stand it. I need a lot of people around, once you get outside the city you're in the middle of nowhere. Although, there did seem to be an inordinate amount of attractive women running around, if you dig hillbilly chicks and all.
The restaurant group is opening spots in OKC, I think. Saw a thing on gangs on NatGeo the other day. OKC was the focus. But redneck girls are fine. Hillbillies live in, well, hills.
| 138 |
RogueOne Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:52:30am |
re: #135 MandyManners
Ha! I was waiting to see if you caught that. I love you man.
| 139 |
RogueOne Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:53:54am |
re: #137 Cannadian Club Akbar
The restaurant group is opening spots in OKC, I think. Saw a thing on gangs on NatGeo the other day. OKC was the focus. But redneck girls are fine. Hillbillies live in, well, hills.
I saw a thing on gangs in Omaha before I moved out that direction. My family is from Detroit and I though omaha gangs must be a joke, but it's not. Kids are crazy.
| 140 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:55:39am |
Mahmoud Rafeh, who is in his 60s, showed no reaction as a judge read the sentence. Death sentences are not uncommon in Lebanon, but they are rarely carried out. Rafeh has two months to appeal.
The bombing killed Mahmoud Majzoub, a senior Islamic Jihad official, and his brother outside their home in the southern Lebanese city of Sidon. Both were Lebanese citizens.
Rafeh was arrested in 2006.
He also is on trial for the assassination of two Hizbullah officials in 1998 and 2003, as well as the 2002 assassination of Jihad Jibril, the son of the leader of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command.
It figures that Ahmed would have a son to follow his footsteps in the PFLP-GC.
| 141 |
RogueOne Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:55:43am |
re: #130 RogueOne
I forgot the story link:
[Link: www.latimes.com...]
| 142 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:57:03am |
re: #136 RogueOne
You would think but since they're only getting the "facts" the prosecutors, judges, and defense atty's decide, they're in a tough spot. Add to that that most people take the police and prosecutors word at face-value and it raises the question of exactly how many innocent people do we have behind bars.
Once the legal system has done it's job it's up to the elected officials to make sure justice has been served but since most governors don't want anyone to be able to accuse them of being soft on criminals they're pretty hesitant to step in. Except Huckabee of course and we know how that worked out.
Are these commissions looking at DNA evidence that was not used at trial because the technology did not exist then? If so, I'm all for it.
| 143 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:57:26am |
re: #138 RogueOne
Ha! I was waiting to see if you caught that. I love you man.
"Man"? I gots me some girly bumps.
| 144 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:58:14am |
re: #137 Cannadian Club Akbar
The restaurant group is opening spots in OKC, I think. Saw a thing on gangs on NatGeo the other day. OKC was the focus. But redneck girls are fine. Hillbillies live in, well, hills.
There are hills in Oklahoma.
| 145 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:59:18am |
| 146 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 19, 2010 4:01:05am |
I would actually like to find a town of about 10K and open a diner. If I'm gonna do "city" I'll do NYC.
| 147 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 4:02:05am |
About two dozen Marines were inserted before dawn into an area where skilled Taliban marksmen are known to operate, an officer said, speaking on condition of anonymity because of security concerns.
Other squads of Marines and Afghans, marching south in a bid to link up with Marine outposts there and expand their territory, came under sniper fire and rocket attacks by midday. The rattle of machine-gun fire and the thud of mortars echoed nearby.
SNIP
Marine recon. Enough to make a woman's knees weak.
| 148 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 4:02:34am |
re: #145 Cannadian Club Akbar
Really? I thought it was flat like Florida. Hmm.
In the eastern region.
| 149 |
RogueOne Fri, Feb 19, 2010 4:04:06am |
re: #142 MandyManners
Are these commissions looking at DNA evidence that was not used at trial because the technology did not exist then? If so, I'm all for it.
This one is, it's the only one. Most prosecutors don't want to play along and test DNA once they've managed to convict someone. Reminds me of this story:
Now the clock is ticking on another Texas death row inmate who has steadfastly maintained his innocence – with credible evidence to support his claim. The condemned man is Henry Watkins “Hank” Skinner, and much of that evidence was unearthed by the Medill Innocence Project and reported in the January 28 and 29 editions of the Texas Tribune, "Case Open" and "Case Open: The Investigation". Yet, Skinner faces death by lethal injection on March 24, less than five weeks from now. (Due to a clerical error, a state court judge yesterday delayed the scheduled execution by a month.)Texas continues to lead the nation in executions. But will the state earn the dubious distinction of executing five innocents in two decades? Hank Skinner’s fate lies in the hands of the Texas Board of Pardons and Paroles, Gov. Perry and the U.S. Supreme Court.
They have DNA from the crime scene available to test and the prosecutor is fighting having the test done. I don't know if the guy is guilty or not but it seems they'd want to do the test to at least make sure.
| 150 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 4:05:49am |
re: #146 Cannadian Club Akbar
I would actually like to find a town of about 10K and open a diner. If I'm gonna do "city" I'll do NYC.
Ft. Smith, Arkansas, is a lovely little city. It's about 75,000.
| 151 |
RogueOne Fri, Feb 19, 2010 4:06:38am |
One last story and then I need to take off for work:
'I never said I didn't want my baby': Mom won't be prosecuted
[Link: www.desmoinesregister.com...]
A pregnant Burlington woman said this week she was falsely accused by police of trying to kill her fetus after she confided under duress to hospital emergency workers that she wanted to end her pregnancy.Christine Taylor, 22, a mother of two, says she believes the personal views of medical workers and police played a part in a decision to accuse her last month of attempted feticide after a Jan. 19 incident in which she fell down the stairs at her home.
Feticide — the illegal death of a fetus — is a rare crime that has never been prosecuted in Iowa.
After reviewing facts of the case for three weeks, Des Moines County prosecutors have decided not to formally charge Taylor with a crime.
I guess the lesson is, If you're pregnant don't fall down the stairs in Iowa.
| 152 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 4:06:59am |
re: #149 RogueOne
They have DNA from the crime scene available to test and the prosecutor is fighting having the test done. I don't know if the guy is guilty or not but it seems they'd want to do the test to at least make sure.
Shame on any prosecutor who fights this.
| 153 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 4:09:34am |
re: #151 RogueOne
One last story and then I need to take off for work:
'I never said I didn't want my baby': Mom won't be prosecuted
[Link: www.desmoinesregister.com...]I guess the lesson is, If you're pregnant don't fall down the stairs in Iowa.
Surely HIPAA was violated repeatedly. Gah.
| 154 |
RogueOne Fri, Feb 19, 2010 4:11:08am |
re: #153 MandyManners
The worst part of that story is they decided not to prosecute because she was only in her 2nd trimester. I have very little faith in local prosecutors to make the right decisions.
| 156 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 4:12:43am |
re: #154 RogueOne
The worst part of that story is they decided not to prosecute because she was only in her 2nd trimester. I have very little faith in local prosecutors to make the right decisions.
The nurse and the doctor were wrong to call the cops. Why not call social workers?! Get the woman some help. Locking her up and stressing her out was not the way to proceed.
| 157 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 4:17:42am |
Dubai police have said they arrested two Palestinians among 18 suspects in last month's killing, which is widely believed to have been carried out by Israel's Mossad. Dubai authorities have not identified the two Palestinians.
A Hamas-affiliated Web site called the Palestine Information Center identified the two as Anwar Shheibar and Ahmad Hassanain.
It claimed Friday that both served in Fatah's security services and now work for a construction company owned by senior Fatah official Mohammed Dahlan.
On Thursday Haaretz learned that Shheibar and Hassanain were at one time members of the Palestinian Authority's security forces in Gaza, but after Hamas took over the Strip in June 2007, they fled to the West Bank and eventually moved to Dubai.
SNIP
| 158 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 19, 2010 4:18:57am |
re: #150 MandyManners
Ft. Smith, Arkansas, is a lovely little city. It's about 75,000.
The average high in July/August is in the low 90's. Other than that, it's in the 80's. And on the border with Oklahoma, I think.
| 159 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 4:21:32am |
re: #158 Cannadian Club Akbar
The average high in July/August is in the low 90's. Other than that, it's in the 80's. And on the border with Oklahoma, I think.
Yep. And, it's in the foothills of the lovely Ozarks. I-40 keeps it from being an iisolated hill town.
| 160 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 4:22:34am |
re: #159 MandyManners
Yep. And, it's in the foothills of the lovely Ozarks. I-40 keeps it from being an iisolated hill town.
Not that there's anything wrong with hill towns but, sometimes it's great to have a fast way out of the hills.
| 161 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 19, 2010 4:24:04am |
re: #159 MandyManners
Yep. And, it's in the foothills of the lovely Ozarks. I-40 keeps it from being an iisolated hill town.
Their gubment web site is average, but I guess it gives the proper info. (skools, services, etc.)
| 162 |
Cato the Elder Fri, Feb 19, 2010 4:27:42am |
I didn't know James Thurber was a Buddhist.
| 163 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 19, 2010 4:28:06am |
Fort Smith was a bustling community full of brothels, saloons and outlaws across the river from Indian Territory.
OK. I'm sold. Heh. (It was 1874, but ya never know)
| 164 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 4:28:55am |
re: #161 Cannadian Club Akbar
Their gubment web site is average, but I guess it gives the proper info. (skools, services, etc.)
Lots of recreation, too.
| 165 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 4:30:17am |
| 166 |
TampaKnight Fri, Feb 19, 2010 4:34:57am |
Mornin'! I'm officially 25 years old today! Wooo
| 167 |
Cato the Elder Fri, Feb 19, 2010 4:35:29am |
Looks like Facebook has now removed that page where all the teabaggers were praising Mr. Stack, the IRS airplane terrorist.
| 168 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 4:35:46am |
| 169 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 4:36:25am |
re: #167 Cato the Elder
Looks like Facebook has now removed that page where all the teabaggers were praising Mr. Stack, the IRS airplane terrorist.
All "teabaggers" were praising him?
| 170 |
TampaKnight Fri, Feb 19, 2010 4:36:31am |
re: #168 MandyManners
Well, Happy Birthday, TK!
Thank you! Those late beers after softball last night aren't treating me well right now though!
| 171 |
Cato the Elder Fri, Feb 19, 2010 4:37:11am |
re: #169 MandyManners
All "teabaggers" were praising him?
All those teabaggers. The ones who were praising him.
There were many.
| 172 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 19, 2010 4:37:39am |
re: #166 TampaKnight
Mornin'! I'm officially 25 years old today! Wooo
My 25th Bday, a friend showed up ay my apartment with a bottle of Crown Royal. We drank it. Not a big deal, except later that night I had to do inventory at the restaurant I worked at. (Chili's) D'oh!!
| 173 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 4:37:45am |
re: #170 TampaKnight
Thank you! Those late beers after softball last night aren't treating me well right now though!
Beer Karma's predictable.
| 174 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 4:38:08am |
re: #171 Cato the Elder
All those teabaggers. The ones who were praising him.
There were many.
Idiots.
| 175 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 4:38:34am |
re: #172 Cannadian Club Akbar
My 25th Bday, a friend showed up ay my apartment with a bottle of Crown Royal. We drank it. Not a big deal, except later that night I had to do inventory at the restaurant I worked at. (Chili's) D'oh!!
Two of everything?
| 176 |
Cato the Elder Fri, Feb 19, 2010 4:38:45am |
re: #166 TampaKnight
Mornin'! I'm officially 25 years old today! Wooo
Congratulations. I'm unofficially 2,538.
| 177 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 19, 2010 4:40:21am |
re: #175 MandyManners
Two of everything?
Needless to say, my GM had a little "chat" with me the next day. But he wasn't mad.
| 178 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 19, 2010 4:40:57am |
| 179 |
Cato the Elder Fri, Feb 19, 2010 4:42:15am |
| 180 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 4:42:41am |
re: #177 Cannadian Club Akbar
Needless to say, my GM had a little "chat" with me the next day. But he wasn't mad.
A hard-ass would've fired you.
| 181 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 4:43:58am |
Speaking of hard-asses, gotta' go light the dynamite under The Kid.
| 182 |
SixDegrees Fri, Feb 19, 2010 4:48:34am |
I've gotta say, I applaud this:
| 183 |
Cato the Elder Fri, Feb 19, 2010 4:49:53am |
re: #182 SixDegrees
I've gotta say, I applaud this:
I predict a class-action lawsuit on behalf of smelly people.
| 184 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 4:52:02am |
re: #183 Cato the Elder
I predict a class-action lawsuit on behalf of smelly people.
Or, Funk and No-Funk sections on a plane.
| 185 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Feb 19, 2010 5:02:38am |
Many different cultures have different ideas of B.O.
What if he was from a culture that is not offended by natural human scent (funk)?
Isn't kicking him off the plane amazingly culturally insensitive?
| 186 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 5:03:02am |
The international community condemned the overthrow, but diplomats and analysts said it could create an opportunity to hold elections that were postponed by Tandja's unpopular constitutional reform in 2009.
"It is likely the new military government will be under pressure from the international community to restore the rule of law and hold elections in the medium term," said Samir Gado, Vice-President of Rencap Securities.
SNIP
| 187 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 5:03:30am |
re: #185 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Many different cultures have different ideas of B.O.
What if he was from a culture that is not offended by natural human scent (funk)?
Isn't kicking him off the plane amazingly culturally insensitive?
No. His right to smell stops at someone else's nose.
| 188 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 19, 2010 5:04:58am |
re: #185 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Many different cultures have different ideas of B.O.
What if he was from a culture that is not offended by natural human scent (funk)?
Isn't kicking him off the plane amazingly culturally insensitive?
Does this mean I get to fly with my lucky chicken?
/
| 189 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Feb 19, 2010 5:06:02am |
re: #187 MandyManners
My comment was politically correct nonsense. Lazy satire...
Can you imagine how funky this dude must've smelled for something like that to happen?
| 190 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 5:06:15am |
The death was the latest in a string of blows to militants operating in Pakistan and neighboring Afghanistan, including the capture in recent weeks of the Taliban's No. 2 leader, that together are seen as the most significant strike against the insurgents in years.
Mohammed Haqqani and three other close associates of Siraj Haqqani were killed when missiles struck a house on Thursday night in the Dande Darpa Khel area of North Waziristan, near the border with Afghanistan, two Pakistani intelligence officials said.
SNIP
| 191 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 5:06:35am |
re: #188 Cannadian Club Akbar
Does this mean I get to fly with my lucky chicken?
/
Why did the chicken cross the aisle?
| 192 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 5:07:14am |
re: #189 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
My comment was politically correct nonsense. Lazy satire...
Can you imagine how funky this dude must've smelled for something like that to happen?
Sorry for being snippy!!
I feel for flight attendants.
| 193 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 19, 2010 5:07:25am |
| 194 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 5:07:48am |
| 195 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Feb 19, 2010 5:08:53am |
I was watching "Airline" (about flight attendants and stuff?) and an African lady (Somali, IIRC) was going to America to visit family and tried to smuggle some fish (for eating, they were dead) onto the plane... Was loose in her carry on bag...
I was thinking that might smell after a while.
They did a close up shot and you could see bugs on them...
Ewww!
| 196 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Feb 19, 2010 5:09:44am |
re: #191 MandyManners
Why did the chicken cross the aisle?
'Cause he thought he'd lose the Republican primary?
| 197 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 5:10:39am |
WTF?
Interior Minister Rahman Malik said Pakistani authorities were still questioning Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar, the most senior Taliban figure arrested since the start of the Afghan war in 2001, and two other senior militants arrested with U.S. assistance in separate operations this month.
If it is determined that the militants have not committed any crimes in Pakistan, they will not remain in the country, he said.
"First we will see whether they have violated any law," Malik told reporters in Islamabad. "If they have done it, then the law will take its own course against them.
"But at the most if they have not done anything, then they will go back to the country of origin, not to USA," Malik said.
| 198 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 19, 2010 5:11:02am |
re: #195 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I worked at a small fine dining place on the water once. A guy quit but before he left he threw a piece of fish on the top of the walk-in. They figured it out after a week. Lovely.
| 199 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 5:11:07am |
| 201 |
The Left Fri, Feb 19, 2010 5:12:01am |
re: #154 RogueOne
Whoa, Rogue, I've been following that story. posted about it in spinoffs.
pregnant? Don't fall down the stairs.
In 37 states the woman can be prosecuted for it. Fucked up.
| 202 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 5:15:00am |
re: #186 MandyManners
I got a very brief email from a friend who's a doctor over in Niger, who said the atmosphere is tense but not terrible. People aren't being disappeared.
| 203 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 5:16:30am |
re: #201 iceweasel
And here's the responsible male:
Taylor said her husband, who lives in Maryland, left her after she became pregnant with her third child last summer. She said she was despondent after a Jan. 19 telephone conversation with him.
"He was saying some very hurtful things and told me he wants to be free," said Taylor, a Maryland native. "And here I was alone, pregnant with two young kids, with no family around or support. I just thought, 'It's not fair.' ... I was so upset and frantic I almost blacked out, and I tripped and fell."
The guy expresses a desire to abandon his already existing family, and everyone is persecuting her. That's not right.
| 205 |
The Left Fri, Feb 19, 2010 5:21:07am |
re: #203 Obdicut
And here's the responsible male:
The guy expresses a desire to abandon his already existing family, and everyone is persecuting her. That's not right.
Not just 'some guy', either. Her husband. He left her and:
"He was saying some very hurtful things and told me he wants to be free," said Taylor, a Maryland native. "And here I was alone, pregnant with two young kids, with no family around or support. I just thought, 'It's not fair.' ... I was so upset and frantic I almost blacked out, and I tripped and fell."
and
Paramedics rushed to the scene and ultimately declared her healthy. However, since she was pregnant with her third child at the time, Taylor thought it would be best to be seen at the local ER to make sure her fetus was unharmed.
That's when things got really bad and really crazy. Alone, distraught, and frightened, Taylor confided in the nurse treating her that she hadn't always been sure she'd wanted this baby, now that she was single and unemployed. She'd considered both adoption and abortion before ultimately deciding to keep the child. The nurse then summoned a doctor, who questioned her further about her thoughts on ending the pregnancy. Next thing Taylor knew, she was being arrested for attempted feticide. Apparently the nurse and doctor thought that Taylor threw herself down the stairs on purpose.
Fucked. Up.
| 206 |
The Left Fri, Feb 19, 2010 5:24:19am |
re: #205 iceweasel
Link for that post:
[Link: womensrights.change.org...]
This woman voluntarily visted the ER AFTER her fall to make sure the fetus was ok, and VOLUNTARILY confided some VERY reasonable doubts about the pregnancy. She HAD ALREADY decided to CONTINUE the pregnancy. For THIS, she's arrested.
| 207 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 5:32:46am |
Morning all
Prolly already been mentioned, but ,,
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Barack Obama hosted exiled Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama at the White House Thursday, drawing an angry reaction from China and risking further damage to strained Sino-U.S. ties
[Link: www.reuters.com...]
Good on you, President Obama!
| 208 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Fri, Feb 19, 2010 5:34:07am |
re: #207 sattv4u2
Morning all
Prolly already been mentioned, but ,,
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Barack Obama hosted exiled Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama at the White House Thursday, drawing an angry reaction from China and risking further damage to strained Sino-U.S. ties
[Link: www.reuters.com...]Good on you, President Obama!
I have to give Obama credit: During the campaign, his thoughts on foreign policy scared me to death. Now that he's actually in the job, he seems to be pretty on top of things. I'm guessing the real-world rude awakening he got during his first briefings probably woke him up to a few things.
| 209 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 5:35:36am |
re: #208 thedopefishlives
I have to give Obama credit: During the campaign, his thoughts on foreign policy scared me to death. Now that he's actually in the job, he seems to be pretty on top of things. I'm guessing the real-world rude awakening he got during his first briefings probably woke him up to a few things.
I give him major props on this one, but I think he's futzed around on Iran way too long thinking that they would change just because Bush was gone
| 210 |
RogueOne Fri, Feb 19, 2010 5:35:44am |
re: #202 Obdicut
I got a very brief email from a friend who's a doctor over in Niger, who said the atmosphere is tense but not terrible. People aren't being disappeared any more than usual.
FTFY.
| 211 |
cliffster Fri, Feb 19, 2010 5:37:23am |
re: #206 iceweasel
Link for that post:
[Link: womensrights.change.org...]This woman voluntarily visted the ER AFTER her fall to make sure the fetus was ok, and VOLUNTARILY confided some VERY reasonable doubts about the pregnancy. She HAD ALREADY decided to CONTINUE the pregnancy. For THIS, she's arrested.
That's jacked up. I wonder if there are any details about the conversation we don't know about. Or maybe the derelict man in the situation snuck in and told some lies. To just arrest the lady seems outrageous. Perhaps it's a standard procedure - to protect the fetus, sorta like if someone seems like they are suicidal. I'm certainly not saying it's right, I'm just trying to figure out why rational people would do such an unthinkable thing.
| 212 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 5:37:50am |
re: #195 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I was watching "Airline" (about flight attendants and stuff?) and an African lady (Somali, IIRC) was going to America to visit family and tried to smuggle some fish (for eating, they were dead) onto the plane... Was loose in her carry on bag...
I was thinking that might smell after a while.
They did a close up shot and you could see bugs on them...
Ewww!
Sequel to Snakes On A Plane
| 213 |
SixDegrees Fri, Feb 19, 2010 5:39:23am |
re: #185 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Many different cultures have different ideas of B.O.
What if he was from a culture that is not offended by natural human scent (funk)?
Isn't kicking him off the plane amazingly culturally insensitive?
Maybe.
Tough.
If I order bacon and beer at a Saudi Arabian restaurant, and whip out a Bible to guide my invocation of grace before my meal, I don't think I'll be granted any special dispensations due to cultural sensitivity.
Everyone has their limits. Asking someone to shower doesn't seem like much of an imposition.
| 214 |
SixDegrees Fri, Feb 19, 2010 5:41:20am |
re: #189 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
My comment was politically correct nonsense. Lazy satire...
Can you imagine how funky this dude must've smelled for something like that to happen?
The phrase "eye watering" comes to mind.
| 215 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 5:42:03am |
The White House and congressional leaders are preparing a detailed health care proposal designed to win passage without Republican support
[Link: apnews.myway.com...]
HOLD THE WEDDIN ,,, I thought there was going to be an open "summit" where republicans and Democrats were going to be invited into the White House for a sit down with the Pres to exchange ideas
If the dems already HAVE their plan and expect it to pass without Repubs ,,,, so much for 'bipartisanship"
| 216 |
RogueOne Fri, Feb 19, 2010 5:43:27am |
re: #211 cliffster
The police have co-opted hospitals. They have to report anything they believe might be illegal, your privacy rights have gone out the window.
There was a case a few years ago in NY where a guy fell and hit his head at work. they took him to the ER to make sure he was alright and they forced him to have a prostrate exam. He busted a doctor in the mouth so they called the police, strapped him down to the bed, and forced the procedure on him. Then they took him away for assaulting a doctor.
| 217 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 5:44:25am |
re: #216 RogueOne
The police have co-opted hospitals. They have to report anything they believe might be illegal, your privacy rights have gone out the window.
There was a case a few years ago in NY where a guy fell and hit his head at work. they took him to the ER to make sure he was alright and they forced him to have a prostrate exam. He busted a doctor in the mouth so they called the police, strapped him down to the bed, and forced the procedure on him. Then they took him away for assaulting a doctor.
Some guys are willing to pay extra for that ,,
just sayin!!
//
| 218 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 19, 2010 5:46:53am |
re: #217 sattv4u2
Some guys are willing to pay extra for that ,,
just sayin!!
//
"Using the whole fist, Doc?" Fletch
| 219 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 5:48:02am |
| 220 |
Mr. Crankypants Fri, Feb 19, 2010 5:51:00am |
re: #216 RogueOne
There was a case a few years ago in NY where a guy fell and hit his head at work. they took him to the ER to make sure he was alright and they forced him to have a prostrate exam.
They made him lay down! How awful!
| 221 |
Mr. Crankypants Fri, Feb 19, 2010 5:53:11am |
re: #208 thedopefishlives
I have to give Obama credit: During the campaign, his thoughts on foreign policy scared me to death. Now that he's actually in the job, he seems to be pretty on top of things. I'm guessing the real-world rude awakening he got during his first briefings probably woke him up to a few things.
He's always struck me as being more of a pragmatist than an idealogue. I think the statement that he made about going after Bin Laden if Pakistan wouldn't was a clear indicator of that. (Remember, everybody said that was a sign of naivete, to)
| 222 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 5:54:03am |
| 223 |
Mr. Crankypants Fri, Feb 19, 2010 5:55:18am |
re: #222 sattv4u2
Why do you think he was so pissed
For a medical information site, this is just TOTAL FAIL!
It's prostate, dumbasses!
| 224 |
The Left Fri, Feb 19, 2010 5:55:49am |
re: #211 cliffster
That's jacked up. I wonder if there are any details about the conversation we don't know about. Or maybe the derelict man in the situation snuck in and told some lies. To just arrest the lady seems outrageous. Perhaps it's a standard procedure - to protect the fetus, sorta like if someone seems like they are suicidal. I'm certainly not saying it's right, I'm just trying to figure out why rational people would do such an unthinkable thing.
She was arrested based on what she confided-- voluntarily-- to the nurse when she VOLUNTARILY went to the the ER later, after the fall.
If anything funny happened, I'd say it happened during the phone call when the paramedics went out. Maybe the dirtbag husband came over after that call.
She told the nurse at the ER later (when she visited of her own free will, to make sure that the fetus was ok) that she hadn't always been sure if she wanted to continue the pregnancy.
IMO that is a highly rational reaction, for a woman who has two little kids, is pregnant, and whose husband just left her. She said she had no family or support.
Honestly, in that circumstance, wouldn't practically ANY woman say to a nurse that she'd felt that way?
Isn't it reasonable to have felt that way for a bit, when your husband is saying he's walking out and you already have two kids and you're unemployed?
The most Catholic or other anti-abortion woman in the world would feel that way for a bit, in those circumstances.
Also, she probably liked the nurse and confided in her. This happens a lot. Especially women-- it's harder to say something to your doctor or even female relatives and friends, but you can tell the nurse. just sayin. Lots of domestic abuse, incest, more, is first confided to female nurses.
| 225 |
SixDegrees Fri, Feb 19, 2010 5:56:59am |
re: #211 cliffster
That's jacked up. I wonder if there are any details about the conversation we don't know about. Or maybe the derelict man in the situation snuck in and told some lies. To just arrest the lady seems outrageous. Perhaps it's a standard procedure - to protect the fetus, sorta like if someone seems like they are suicidal. I'm certainly not saying it's right, I'm just trying to figure out why rational people would do such an unthinkable thing.
Around here, if police receive a domestic violence complaint, someone's going to jail, period, end of story. And it's the man; although this part isn't actually codified as part of the policy, there have been no instances where it wasn't.
And a "domestic violence complaint" is remarkably elastic in definition. It certainly includes cases where a neighbor, say, calls the police when they hear voices raised. Or when a random passerby does the same. Even if the call is anonymous, the policy is unswayed. Police are not allowed to make "judgment call" on the situation, as has been done in the past. DV == arrest.
I can understand the rationale that led to such a policy. But the outcome has not been good, as anyone might imagine. Complaints have been called in as pranks, as payback by jilted lovers, as punishment for not taking proper care of the lawn, and for other ridiculous things, leading to a night in jail and court appearances and weeks wasted trying to cleanse a reputation. Somehow, this is supposed to be acceptable because it's better to be wrong - even a lot - and cause the innocent to suffer in order to protect against those cases where something is truly afoot.
For another, unrelated example of diligence run amok, see this story about a 12 year old girl arrested, handcuffed and frogmarched out of school for doodling on her desktop.
| 226 |
Mr. Crankypants Fri, Feb 19, 2010 5:57:23am |
re: #224 iceweasel
This whole story makes me sad to admit I'm from Iowa.
Although I could be considering a move to OK and having James Inhofe as my senator.
| 227 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 5:57:48am |
re: #223 PT Barnum
For a medical information site, this is just TOTAL FAIL!
It's prostate, dumbasses!
wow ,,,, lazy,, i know even of they were to have run that through Spell Check, it wouldn't red flag,, but still ,,,,, !!
| 228 |
Only The Lurker Knows Fri, Feb 19, 2010 5:59:40am |
re: #217 sattv4u2
I thought that was just too weird to be true so I Googled it. Turns out it was true. Yeah, I would be pretty t-ed off I I told them no and they went ahead and did it anyway.
| 229 |
Mr. Crankypants Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:00:24am |
re: #227 sattv4u2
wow ,,, lazy,, i know even of they were to have run that through Spell Check, it wouldn't red flag,, but still ,,, !!
It's a funnel to an ad for a nutritional supplement, but they spelled it right.
The nutritional supplement looks like one of those scams to get your credit card for an automatically renewing "prescription", similar to Extenze and whatever "male enhancement" pill "Smilin Bob" shills for.
| 230 |
RogueOne Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:03:17am |
re: #226 PT Barnum
I didn't know you were In IA Barnum. I met my spouse in Sioux City.
| 231 |
SixDegrees Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:04:07am |
re: #228 Bubblehead II
I thought that was just too weird to be true so I Googled it. Turns out it was true. Yeah, I would be pretty t-ed off I I told them no and they went ahead and did it anyway.
No one can force medical procedures on you if you're conscious and competent - and the latter is the default presumption in the absence of a professional determination to the contrary.
That gentleman's new title ought to be "Hospital Owner" by the time things get resolved.
| 232 |
The Left Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:06:21am |
re: #216 RogueOne
The police and insurance companies have co-opted hospitals. They have to report anything they believe might be illegal, your privacy rights have gone out the window.
Fixed that a bit.
If you're female and fertile (i.e., under the age of menopause) they want you to have a pregnancy test too before a lot of treatments. Just sayin'.
| 234 |
Mr. Crankypants Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:06:40am |
re: #230 RogueOne
I didn't know you were In IA Barnum. I met my spouse in Sioux City.
I lived in Sioux City in the 90s...worked for Gateway for 7 1/2 years.
| 235 |
cliffster Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:06:40am |
re: #231 SixDegrees
No one can force medical procedures on you if you're conscious and competent - and the latter is the default presumption in the absence of a professional determination to the contrary.
That gentleman's new title ought to be "Hospital Owner" by the time things get resolved.
Well, in that story is is complicated a bit by the head injury. Still though, unless he was speaking in tongues I'm with you on the construction worker's sudden promotion.
| 236 |
Mr. Crankypants Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:07:38am |
re: #233 Spare O'Lake
A tad anal this morning, are we?
When I'm colon youuuu oooooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh
| 237 |
Only The Lurker Knows Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:10:06am |
re: #231 SixDegrees
Well that story was from Jan 2008 with the trial slated for March of 2008. I will Google around and see if I can find the results.
| 238 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:10:10am |
re: #235 cliffster
Well, in that story is is complicated a bit by the head injury. Still though, unless he was speaking in tongues I'm with you on the construction worker's sudden promotion.
That head injury is going to figure prominently in the civil suit. My guess is that the defense is going to say that he was clearly mentally affected by the head trauma, to the point where he lashed out at the doctor in defense of his altered state. In emergency situations, waiting for a full evaluation of competency can cost lives, but I'm betting the prosecution will be arguing that this was hardly an emergency situation and that if they had concerns about his ability to decide medical issues, they had time to do a proper evaluation.
| 239 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:13:16am |
re: #238 thedopefishlives
I would take the stand and say I might lash out against someone with their finger up my backside.
| 240 |
SixDegrees Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:13:16am |
re: #237 Bubblehead II
Well that story was from Jan 2008 with the trial slated for March of 2008. I will Google around and see if I can find the results.
Let us know what you find. A lot of settlements, though, require both parties to keep their mouths shut about the details - especially if the amount awarded is large - in order to avoid encouraging others, among other things.
| 241 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:14:47am |
re: #240 SixDegrees
Let us know what you find. A lot of settlements, though, require both parties to keep their mouths shut about the details - especially if the amount awarded is large - in order to avoid encouraging others, among other things.
If it actually went to trial, the results are a matter of public record. It's a matter of searching in the right places.
| 242 |
SixDegrees Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:15:34am |
re: #238 thedopefishlives
That head injury is going to figure prominently in the civil suit. My guess is that the defense is going to say that he was clearly mentally affected by the head trauma, to the point where he lashed out at the doctor in defense of his altered state. In emergency situations, waiting for a full evaluation of competency can cost lives, but I'm betting the prosecution will be arguing that this was hardly an emergency situation and that if they had concerns about his ability to decide medical issues, they had time to do a proper evaluation.
I don't think anyone is going to be able to convince a jury that a prostate exam was required because of imminent medical danger.
"Oh my God - that thing's the size of a grapefruit, and it's getting bigger! It could explode at any moment - everybody back!"
| 243 |
The Left Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:17:02am |
I'm SO pleased that so many are outraged by a prostate exam, and think it requires a massive money settlement at the least.
Really.
| 244 |
SixDegrees Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:17:05am |
re: #241 thedopefishlives
If it actually went to trial, the results are a matter of public record. It's a matter of searching in the right places.
I sort of doubt it ever saw the inside of a courtroom. In a case like this, the hospital board more than more than likely looked over the facts, thought about how their actions would play in front of a jury, and simply asked, "How much do you want?"
| 246 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:17:50am |
re: #242 SixDegrees
I don't think anyone is going to be able to convince a jury that a prostate exam was required because of imminent medical danger.
"Oh my God - that thing's the size of a grapefruit, and it's getting bigger! It could explode at any moment - everybody back!"
If you've ever seen a good lawyer in action, they could sell snow to an Eskimo. Just sayin'.
| 248 |
njdhockeyfan Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:18:45am |
The health care protests seem to be changing again. Get a load of this...
| 249 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:19:11am |
re: #236 PT Barnum
When I'm colon youuu oooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh
Another example of American abuse of colonial power.
| 250 |
Mr. Crankypants Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:19:37am |
re: #243 iceweasel
I'm SO pleased that so many are outraged by a prostate exam, and think it requires a massive money settlement at the least.
Really.
I've had a colonoscopy...once you have one of those, a prostate exam is like a walk in the park.
Although hearing about what women go through during exams of their lady parts makes getting a finger up your whoops a daisy pale in comparison.
| 251 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:19:44am |
re: #239 Cannadian Club Akbar
I would take the stand and say I might lash out against someone with their finger up my backside.
If you were to take the stand while someone had their finger up your backside you have an entire different case!!
| 252 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:19:46am |
In Thursday’s report, the IAEA expressed concern for the first time that Iran may currently be working on ways to turn enriched uranium into a nuclear warhead, adding that Iran managed to make a minute amount of near 20-percent enriched uranium within days of starting production from lower-enriched material.
"The West's accusations are baseless because our religious beliefs bar us from using such weapons ... we do not believe in atomic weapons and are not seeking that," Iranian state television quoted Khamenei as saying in a report cited by Reuters.
ROFLMAO!
| 255 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:20:18am |
re: #243 iceweasel
I'm SO pleased that so many are outraged by a prostate exam, and think it requires a massive money settlement at the least.
Really.
You shouldn't stick your nose in where it doesn't belong.
| 256 |
SixDegrees Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:20:28am |
re: #246 thedopefishlives
If you've ever seen a good lawyer in action, they could sell snow to an Eskimo. Just sayin'.
Yeah. That works both ways, though. On the plaintiff's side in cases like this, the first rule is always: demand a trial by jury. In this particular case, make sure you select as many 50+ year old males as possible.
It's usually a lot cheaper to just quietly admit you blew it and pay up. A jury of your peers is likely to hammer you right through the floor, given the chance.
| 257 |
Only The Lurker Knows Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:20:35am |
re: #244 SixDegrees
It went to trial. He lost.
N.Y. jury rejects lawsuit over rectal exam man didn't want
After deliberating for about an hour, a state Supreme Court jury awarded nothing to Brian Persaud, who sued NewYork-Presbyterian Hospital for unspecified damages. The panel found the hospital and its emergency room medical staff were not liable.
| 258 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:20:36am |
re: #252 MandyManners
Like anyone's REALLY gonna buy that line. That's the only part of modern technology that Islamotards are really excited about: Stuff that blows people up.
| 259 |
Mr. Crankypants Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:21:02am |
| 260 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:21:38am |
| 261 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:22:01am |
re: #232 iceweasel
Fixed that a bit.
If you're female and fertile (i.e., under the age of menopause) they want you to have a pregnancy test too before a lot of treatments. Just sayin'.
One time the Roi went to the ER (kidney stones), and was given a pregnancy test.
LOL.
We couldn't figure out the purpose of that one.
| 262 |
Mr. Crankypants Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:23:08am |
| 263 |
The Left Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:23:12am |
re: #261 reine.de.tout
One time the Roi went to the ER (kidney stones), and was given a pregnancy test.
LOL.
We couldn't figure out the purpose of that one.
Insurance I assume. Your coverage providing for it, people being able to bill for it.
Not kidding.
| 264 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:23:23am |
re: #259 PT Barnum
or your finger
Wow ,,, an entirely DIFFERENT issue,,, if the doctor stuck his NOSE up your ,, umm,,,, eeewww ,,, nevahmind!!
| 265 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:23:30am |
| 266 |
SixDegrees Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:24:27am |
re: #257 Bubblehead II
It went to trial. He lost.
N.Y. jury rejects lawsuit over rectal exam man didn't want
After deliberating for about an hour, a state Supreme Court jury awarded nothing to Brian Persaud, who sued NewYork-Presbyterian Hospital for unspecified damages. The panel found the hospital and its emergency room medical staff were not liable.
Sounds like there might be more to this than the other story suggested.
Nonetheless, a patient has an absolute right to refuse treatment, and if treatment was forced after such a refusal, the hospital is going to find itself in a heap of shit.
More details seem to be needed here.
| 267 |
SixDegrees Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:25:04am |
| 268 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:25:27am |
re: #263 iceweasel
Insurance I assume. Your coverage providing for it, people being able to bill for it.
Not kidding.
Actually, when the doc saw him and saw the pregnancy test results (not pregnant, btw), they took it off the bill.
I think the ER staff was just not paying attention. Which is scarier to me than
billing the insurance co. for an unneeded test.
| 269 |
cliffster Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:25:40am |
re: #257 Bubblehead II
It went to trial. He lost.
N.Y. jury rejects lawsuit over rectal exam man didn't want
After deliberating for about an hour, a state Supreme Court jury awarded nothing to Brian Persaud, who sued NewYork-Presbyterian Hospital for unspecified damages. The panel found the hospital and its emergency room medical staff were not liable.
Might have had to do with him trying to sell PTSD, saying he couldn't work. If he'd just said, "they held me down and shoved something up my butt against my will", they would have made him a rich man. He took it too far.
| 270 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:25:43am |
re: #261 reine.de.tout
One time the Roi went to the ER (kidney stones), and was given a pregnancy test.
LOL.
We couldn't figure out the purpose of that one.
Please don't tell me he passed a healthy, strapping, 7 lb kidneystone.
| 271 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:26:14am |
re: #270 Spare O'Lake
Please don't tell me he passed a healthy, strapping, 7 lb kidneystone.
Resembles the dads side of the family!
| 272 |
njdhockeyfan Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:26:44am |
Jobless Claims, Inflation Jump as Economy Wobbles
The number of U.S. workers filing new applications for unemployment insurance unexpectedly surged last week, while producer prices increased sharply in January, raising potential hurdles for the economic recovery.
Initial claims for state unemployment benefits increased 31,000 to 473,000, the Labor Department said on Thursday. That compared to market expectations for 430,000.
Another report from the department showed prices paid at the farm and factory gate rose a faster than expected 1.4 percent from December after a 0.4 percent gain in December, as higher gasoline prices and unusually cold temperatures helped boost energy costs.
The stimulus bill is working so well. Maybe we should pass another one.
//
| 273 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:26:56am |
re: #269 cliffster
Might have had to do with him trying to sell PTSD, saying he couldn't work. If he'd just said, "they held me down and shoved something up my butt against my will", they would have made him a rich man. He took it too far.
I wondered what I was missing. Yeah, that's a bit out there. Shot for the moon and came crashing back to earth instead.
| 274 |
Mr. Crankypants Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:27:25am |
re: #270 Spare O'Lake
Please don't tell me he passed a healthy, strapping, 7 lb kidneystone.
I got billed for a cervical collar one time when it was my knee that had gotten thown out of place. Called back and challenged it, and the ambulance service took it off the bill.
| 275 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:27:28am |
re: #272 njdhockeyfan
Jobless Claims, Inflation Jump as Economy Wobbles
The stimulus bill is working so well. Maybe we should pass another one.
//
They're working on it ,,,
(Sorry ,, no /// ,,,,{GROAN} ,,)
| 276 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:27:36am |
re: #272 njdhockeyfan
Jobless Claims, Inflation Jump as Economy Wobbles
The stimulus bill is working so well. Maybe we should pass another one.
//
I'm sure that is what they are thinking.
| 277 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:28:27am |
re: #272 njdhockeyfan
Jobless Claims, Inflation Jump as Economy Wobbles
The stimulus bill is working so well. Maybe we should pass another one.
//
With rock-solid analysis like that, you could be a House Republican! Care to explain what you think the unemployment numbers would look like had the stimulus not been passed?
| 278 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:28:53am |
| 279 |
Only The Lurker Knows Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:28:58am |
re: #266 SixDegrees
Looks like Cliffster hit on the head with his #269. Got greedy and ended up with nothing instead.
| 280 |
SixDegrees Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:29:13am |
re: #276 Cannadian Club Akbar
I'm sure that is what they are thinking.
I see that, more than a year after passage, Congress is finally getting around to actually spending the stimulus money, ramping up outlays to over $32 billion per month from near zero.
Just as the midterm election season enters high gear...
| 281 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:29:25am |
re: #108 MandyManners
SNIP
Whitehall sources today dismissed as "nonsense" a report claiming that Israel's secret service, Mossad, had informed the UK of possible complications arising from the use of British passports in an unspecified "overseas operation".
Today's Daily Mail reports that "a member of Mossad … said the Foreign Office was also told hours before a Hamas terrorist chief was assassinated in Dubai. The tip-off did not say who the target would be or even where the hit squad would be in action."
The paper quotes an unnamed "British security source" as saying: "This is a serving member of Israeli intelligence. He says the British government was told very, very briefly before the operation what was going to happen. There was no British involvement and they didn't know the name of the target. But they were told these people were travelling on UK passports."
But a Foreign Office spokesman said today: "Any suggestion that the government knew anything about the murder before it happened is completely untrue, including the use of UK passports."
SNIP
| 282 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:29:40am |
re: #277 drcordell
With rock-solid analysis like that, you could be a House Republican! Care to explain what you think the unemployment numbers would look like had the stimulus not been passed?
Not much different, considering how little of the money has actually been spent.
| 283 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:30:11am |
Club Akbar, did you catch the Canada v. Switzerland hockey game last night? Can't believe that you almost lost that one!
| 285 |
SixDegrees Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:30:24am |
re: #279 Bubblehead II
Looks like Cliffster hit on the head with his #269. Got greedy and ended up with nothing instead.
Could be. It could also be that the claim of refusal of treatment was less adamant than reported earlier.
| 286 |
njdhockeyfan Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:30:35am |
re: #282 thedopefishlives
Not much different, considering how little of the money has actually been spent.
And how much of the spent money has been wasted?
| 287 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:30:58am |
re: #283 drcordell
Club Akbar, did you catch the Canada v. Switzerland hockey game last night? Can't believe that you almost lost that one!
Caught the shoot out. But I live in Florida. I just drink CC.:)
| 288 |
njdhockeyfan Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:31:10am |
re: #283 drcordell
Club Akbar, did you catch the Canada v. Switzerland hockey game last night? Can't believe that you almost lost that one!
That was an outstanding game.
| 289 |
SixDegrees Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:31:41am |
re: #284 iceweasel
I think you should fuck off for suggesting that I need a 'forced vaginal examination', you fucking moron.
And if I had actually done such a thing, you would have an excellent point.
However...
| 290 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:31:43am |
re: #277 drcordell
With rock-solid analysis like that, you could be a House Republican! Care to explain what you think the unemployment numbers would look like had the stimulus not been passed?
We were told they wouldn't exceed 8 percent WITH it ,,, care to explain how it got to 10!?!?!
| 291 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:31:43am |
re: #286 njdhockeyfan
And how much of the spent money has been wasted?
Yeah. Wasted on things like salaries for teachers, police officers and firemen. Have you read anything about the stimulus at all? Or are you simply basing all of your assumptions on what Neil Cavuto told you?
| 292 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:32:00am |
re: #290 sattv4u2
We were told they wouldn't exceed 8 percent WITH it ,,, care to explain how it got to 10!?!?!
10 is better than 15 is it not?
| 293 |
RogueOne Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:32:03am |
re: #228 Bubblehead II
I thought that was just too weird to be true so I Googled it. Turns out it was true. Yeah, I would be pretty t-ed off I I told them no and they went ahead and did it anyway.
What, You think I'd lie to you? Now I'm hurt.
| 294 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:32:31am |
Many of the victims were police officers drawn to the scene by initial explosions, officials said, suggesting they were lured into a trap, a common tactic of insurgents in Ingushetia and neighboring Chechnya.
The toll underscored the Kremlin's inability to rein in violence in the North Caucasus, scene of near-daily attacks blamed on Islamic militants.
The explosions killed a police officer and the owner of the house where the initial mid-morning blasts occurred, the federal Investigative Committee said. At least two more bombs exploded after more law enforcement officers arrived, it said.
SNIP
| 295 |
SixDegrees Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:32:54am |
| 296 |
njdhockeyfan Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:32:58am |
re: #290 sattv4u2
We were told they wouldn't exceed 8 percent WITH it ,,, care to explain how it got to 10!?!?!
It's George Bush's fault!
| 297 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:33:14am |
re: #292 drcordell
10 is better than 15 is it not?
8 is better than 10, is it not?
SO ,,, again ,, what happened to the 8 promise??
| 299 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:33:34am |
re: #278 reine.de.tout
My!
Everyone sure is in a chipper mood this morning!
You got a problem with that, lady?
;D
| 300 |
njdhockeyfan Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:33:37am |
re: #292 drcordell
10 is better than 15 is it not?
And when it gets to 15 you will say it's better than 20, right?
| 301 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:34:01am |
| 302 |
SixDegrees Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:35:56am |
re: #298 MandyManners
*ahem*
*WHACK*
For what? Treatment without consent, no matter what the procedure, is bad and wrong. If you tell a doctor, no, I really don't want that procedure done - whatever it might be - and you're physically forced to comply with it against your expressed wishes, under what circumstances is it ever acceptable?
| 303 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:35:58am |
re: #284 iceweasel
I don't mean to push any buttons or offend anyone here, but this illustrates the point rather well, I think. You're upset - rightly so - at his suggestion, as the guy in the hospital case was at the doctor's suggestion.
| 304 |
Daniel Ballard Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:36:04am |
re: #190 MandyManners
Geez, we kill all the generals and we'll just be hitting them in their privates.
| 305 |
lawhawk Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:36:09am |
re: #268 reine.de.tout
And it happens more frequently than one would ever want.
| 306 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:36:20am |
re: #300 njdhockeyfan
And when it gets to 15 you will say it's better than 20, right?
If you actually care to learn something about what the stimulus has actually accomplished, instead of simply vomiting up House GOP talking points, I suggest you read this:
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]
There is little dispute among economists that the measure has kept the jobless rate from being even higher than it is.
| 307 |
The Left Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:36:59am |
re: #289 SixDegrees
Ah. That's right. You're pretending a finger up the ass is like a vaginal exam.
Hint: women have both.
Hint: you're wrong.
| 308 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:37:09am |
re: #287 Cannadian Club Akbar
Caught the shoot out. But I live in Florida. I just drink CC.:)
Hahahahaha I should have known.
| 309 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:38:12am |
Morning everyone. Looks like I butted into an interesting argument conversation.
| 310 |
Only The Lurker Knows Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:38:13am |
re: #293 RogueOne
Well I did fall for the Cantastic web site joke :-)
But no, I didn't think you were lying. Like I said, it just seemed very weird that such a thing could even happen. Sometimes life IS stranger than fiction.
With that said, I have to finish getting ready for work.
L8R
| 311 |
RogueOne Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:39:01am |
re: #307 iceweasel
Ah. That's right. You're pretending a finger up the ass is like a vaginal exam.
Hint: women have both.
Hint: you're wrong.
That's the same argument my wife makes and that's all I say about that....
| 312 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:39:03am |
re: #302 SixDegrees
For what? Treatment without consent, no matter what the procedure, is bad and wrong. If you tell a doctor, no, I really don't want that procedure done - whatever it might be - and you're physically forced to comply with it against your expressed wishes, under what circumstances is it ever acceptable?
It's the way you said it in No. 267. To me, it was callous and mocking of another Lizard.
| 313 |
SixDegrees Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:39:20am |
re: #307 iceweasel
Ah. That's right. You're pretending a finger up the ass is like a vaginal exam.
Hint: women have both.
Hint: you're wrong.
Sorry, I don't want to play. If you want to fantasize that I said such a thing, feel free.
| 314 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:39:38am |
re: #304 Rightwingconspirator
Geez, we kill all the generals and we'll just be hitting them in their privates.
Smack away.
| 317 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:40:36am |
re: #306 drcordell
So ,, you trash someone for "Or are you simply basing all of your assumptions on what Neil Cavuto told you without knowing if the poster even knows who Cavuto is much less watches him, then you trot out a NYT piece as your 'proof" ,,,
MMmmmkkkkkaaaayyy!!
| 318 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:40:55am |
Sattv and NDhockey, you seem to be vehemently opposed to the stimulus. Yet I haven't actually seen you produce any concrete evidence of its ineffectiveness. And no, pointing out that unemployment is 10% doesn't count, since real economists nearly all agree that without the stimulus we would easily be up at 15% or higher.
If you had your way and the stimulus was not enacted, how would you have filled the budget deficits in nearly every state? What money would those states be using to make sure that their teachers, fireman and policemen are still able to have jobs? And through what mechanism would you have helped prevent unemployment from sliding past 10% to 15%?
| 319 |
SixDegrees Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:43:10am |
re: #313 SixDegrees
Sorry, I don't want to play. If you want to fantasize that I said such a thing, feel free.
How is it not analogous? Both are examples of an examination that is entirely valid under many circumstances, but which are NEVER acceptable when the patient has refused them.
And the selective outrage expressed here was, in fact, my whole point. It isn't acceptable to be dismissive of any such action - unless, apparently, the shoe is on the other foot.
| 320 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:43:10am |
So, I'm having gumbo for lunch today. How about the rest of you?
| 321 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:43:19am |
re: #317 sattv4u2
So ,, you trash someone for "Or are you simply basing all of your assumptions on what Neil Cavuto told you without knowing if the poster even knows who Cavuto is much less watches him, then you trot out a NYT piece as your 'proof" ,,,
MMmmmkkkaaayyy!!
The reason why I mentioned Cavuto is because I haven't seen a single concrete example provided as to why the stimulus is a failure. Aside from half-serious mentions of the unemployment rate, you have provided nothing. Just baseless claims that the stimulus is a "failure" despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. And that's why I mentioned Fox News. Because they are in a league of their own when it comes to baselessly attacking Obama's actions with no rational support for their position.
| 322 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:44:18am |
re: #316 iceweasel
six degrees is an asshole. he has demonstrated that repeatedly, and he has a tendency to be an asshole to certain posters. I am one whom he has repeatedly behaved badly toward.
Hence my need to tell him to fuck off for that comment.Step aside. Really.
You came waltzing in here looking for a fight, didn't you.
| 323 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:44:43am |
re: #318 drcordell
If you had your way and the stimulus was not enacted, how would you have filled the budget deficits in nearly every state? What money would those states be using to make sure that their teachers, fireman and policemen are still able to have jobs?
Do what Christie is doing in New Jersey,,, FREEZE spending ,, budget cuts ,,,, etc [Link: www.rightpundits.com...]
| 324 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:45:57am |
re: #320 Mad Al-Jaffee
So, I'm having gumbo for lunch today. How about the rest of you?
Got an email from my friend yesterday saying he made it to Maryland. I thought he left before the snow.
| 325 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:45:57am |
| 326 |
njdhockeyfan Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:46:04am |
re: #318 drcordell
Let's take a look at some of those jobs the stimulus bill has created...
-- $233,000 to the University of California at San Diego to study why Africans vote. Jobs created: 12, but seven of those are Africans in Africa.-- In Nevada, $2 million in stimulus money built a new fire station, but because of budget cuts, the county can't afford to hire firefighters to work there.
-- Penn State University got $1.5 million to study plant fossils in Argentina. Of 5 jobs created, 2 belong to Argentines.
-- Researchers the State University of New York at Buffalo got $389,000 to pay 100 Buffalonians $45 each to record how much malt liquor they drink -- and how much pot smoke each day. Consumption is then reported via an automated phone hotline. Cost per job: almost $200,000.
-- The Obama administration is spending $5 billion to weatherize homes. But one Texas county spent $4 million to weatherize just 47 homes. That's $78,000 per house. Each retrofit is supposed to save homeowners $500 a year in energy costs. That means taxpayers will recoup their investment in 156 years, long after the home is probably torn down.
-- Two Arizona universities got almost $1 million dollars so 3 grad students can study how ants work. That's more than $300,000 per job.
-- Companies that raise tropical fish, shellfish, catfish, alligators and even turtles qualify for $50 million in tax money to buy fish food.
-- North Carolina public schools received $4.4 million to hire math and literacy coaches, not for students, but teachers. That's 64 people paid $70,000 each to teach teachers how to teach reading and math.
...Senate sources say privately many inspectors general are understaffed and overwhelmed, and mechanisms to stop fraud and disqualify tax cheats, criminals and others aren't always working.Take the Napa Valley Wine Train. The county received $54 million to build a railroad bridge, relocate a half-mile of track and build a flood wall to protect a wine train passenger station. The no-bid contract went to a minority-owned business operated by an Eskimo tribe outside Anchorage.
The company then hired a real construction company for a fraction of what they were paid by the government to actually do the work. The tribe's CEO has no construction experience. His last business, a Web site for sailors, went bankrupt after spending $13 million in investor money.
"That wine train is sort of the perfect storm of practically all of the things that is wrong with government contracting," said Danielle Brian, director of the Project on Government Oversight.
Other dubious contracts include:
-- $6 million in stimulus money to a California contractor under federal investigation for overcharging San Diego for cleanup after the 2007 wildfires
-- A Denver developer received $13 million in tax credits to help build a senior housing complex despite being sued as a slumlord for running decrepit, rodent-infested apartment buildings in San Francisco.
-- Kentucky gave $24 million to a contractor on trial on for bribery.
-- An aerospace company received $15 million to monitor water quality in a Ventura County creek it was already fined for polluting.
"What we have is already a broken system. The federal government is just lousy in its contracting. When you add these elements of speed where the contracting officers or the agencies are being pushed to hurry up and get these dollars out and these grants out quickly, all you're doing is making it harder for them to make good choices," said Brian.
Do we really need another stimulus bill?
| 327 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:46:38am |
re: #319 SixDegrees
How is it not analogous? Both are examples of an examination that is entirely valid under many circumstances, but which are NEVER acceptable when the patient has refused them.
And the selective outrage expressed here was, in fact, my whole point. It isn't acceptable to be dismissive of any such action - unless, apparently, the shoe is on the other foot.
Unlike the situation at hand, there is no situation in which a forced vaginal examination is mandated. Rectal exams in the case of concussion are necessary to ascertain possible nerve damage and further trauma.
| 328 |
The Left Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:46:56am |
re: #322 Spare O'Lake
You came waltzing in here looking for a fight, didn't you.
Hey, spare. :) How did that last conversation of yours go?
Not too well. (giggle)
Fuck off and stay out of this.
| 329 |
SixDegrees Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:46:59am |
re: #320 Mad Al-Jaffee
So, I'm having gumbo for lunch today. How about the rest of you?
Lucky you. I'll be making do with warmed-over andouille sausage, unless I get a better offer.
| 330 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:47:11am |
re: #324 Cannadian Club Akbar
Got an email from my friend yesterday saying he made it to Maryland. I thought he left before the snow.
The roads have been clear for over a week. Still huge snow drifts all over the place. I haven't had any problems getting around this week, just going a little slower.
| 331 |
RogueOne Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:47:52am |
re: #323 sattv4u2
Same as Indiana. Cutting spending is the only way to balance the budget. Most of that stimulus money being spent to shore up the states shortfalls is going away next year, then what are the states that aren't cutting their spending going to do?
| 332 |
MrSilverDragon Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:48:04am |
Good morning, everyone.
I can't believe that it's finally Friday, and that I actually have a weekend with no obligations to anyone. It's gonna be a "BioShock 2" marathon! Woohoo!
| 334 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:49:39am |
re: #329 SixDegrees
Lucky you. I'll be making do with warmed-over andouille sausage, unless I get a better offer.
There's andouille sausage in my gumbo! Probably not the authentic kind (pre-cooked), but it still tastes all right. Just like my gumbo - I don't make it 100% authentic, but it tastes great.
| 335 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:50:03am |
re: #327 MandyManners
Mandy, your breadth of knowledge always astonishes me.
And yes, you're entirely right. It's one of the things you get told when you become a boxer, too. "Don't get a concussion, or you'll get a finger in your ass."
Them's some motivating words.
| 337 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:50:18am |
re: #334 Mad Al-Jaffee
There's andouille sausage in my gumbo! Probably not the authentic kind (pre-cooked), but it still tastes all right. Just like my gumbo - I don't make it 100% authentic, but it tastes great.
Do you add crawfish?
| 338 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:50:26am |
re: #332 MrSilverDragon
Good morning, everyone.
I can't believe that it's finally Friday, and that I actually have a weekend with no obligations to anyone. It's gonna be a "BioShock 2" marathon! Woohoo!
After mastering the art of coercing my computer to send sound input wherever I darn well please, I've started playing my Xbox more lately. Time to finish up some old games and work some on Mass Effect 2, which the Mrs. Fish bought me for Valentine's Day.
| 339 |
cliffster Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:51:21am |
re: #327 MandyManners
Unlike the situation at hand, there is no situation in which a forced vaginal examination is mandated. Rectal exams in the case of concussion are necessary to ascertain possible nerve damage and further trauma.
Wow, and you didn't even know what "spunk" is... ;)
| 340 |
RogueOne Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:51:31am |
re: #335 Obdicut
And yes, you're entirely right. It's one of the things you get told when you become a boxer, too. "Don't get a concussion, or you'll get a finger in your ass."Them's some motivating words.
I thought that was why you didn't take candy from strangers or leave your drink at the bar while you're not paying attention.
| 341 |
SixDegrees Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:52:26am |
re: #327 MandyManners
Unlike the situation at hand, there is no situation in which a forced vaginal examination is mandated. Rectal exams in the case of concussion are necessary to ascertain possible nerve damage and further trauma.
It doesn't matter whether the procedure is necessary or not - the issue is whether the procedure in question was refused by the patient. If so, administering it anyway - by force or otherwise - is a gross breach of medical ethics and the law.
So, to make the analogy more exact - you go to the doctor, the doctor suggests that you have an exam, you refuse, and the doctor has you strapped down and performs the exam anyway, against your stated wishes. Is that ever acceptable? (Note that we excluded cases where you're non-responsive or incompetent earlier.)
| 342 |
RogueOne Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:52:26am |
re: #338 thedopefishlives
I love my xbox just for that reason. Streaming my music and movies throughout the house is just damned handy.
| 343 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:52:26am |
re: #338 thedopefishlives
Hey, any opinion on Fallout 3 mods? I'm about to start playing again, with a fresh install, and I was wondering how I should decorate my apocalypse.
| 344 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:52:37am |
re: #337 Cannadian Club Akbar
Do you add crawfish?
No, but I should try that some time. It's hard to find them fresh here and I don't know how frozen would taste. This time I made it simple and just used chicken and sausage. I'll probably use shrimp next time.
Without seafood, it lasts longer (I make a big pot and eat it all through the week) and heats up better.
| 345 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:52:57am |
Then came Ronald Reagan, and all that chatter disappeared.
The tyranny of entitlements? Reagan collaborated with Tip O'Neill, the legendary Democratic House speaker, to establish the Alan Greenspan commission that kept Social Security solvent for a quarter-century.
A corrupted system of taxation? Reagan worked with liberal Democrat Bill Bradley to craft a legislative miracle: tax reform that eliminated dozens of loopholes and slashed rates across the board -- and fueled two decades of economic growth.
Later, a highly skilled Democratic president, Bill Clinton, successfully tackled another supposedly intractable problem: the culture of intergenerational dependency. He collaborated with another House speaker, Newt Gingrich, to produce the single most successful social reform of our time, the abolition of welfare as an entitlement.
It turned out that the country's problems were not problems of structure but of leadership. Reagan and Clinton had it. Carter didn't. Under a president with extensive executive experience, good political skills and an ideological compass in tune with the public, the country was indeed governable.
It's 2010, and the first-year agenda of a popular and promising young president has gone down in flames. Barack Obama's two signature initiatives -- cap-and-trade and health-care reform -- lie in ruins.
Desperate to explain away this scandalous state of affairs, liberal apologists haul out the old reliable from the Carter years: "America the Ungovernable." So declared Newsweek. "Is America Ungovernable?" coyly asked the New Republic. Guess the answer.
SNIP
| 346 |
MrSilverDragon Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:53:34am |
re: #338 thedopefishlives
After mastering the art of coercing my computer to send sound input wherever I darn well please, I've started playing my Xbox more lately. Time to finish up some old games and work some on Mass Effect 2, which the Mrs. Fish bought me for Valentine's Day.
I've been half tempted to pick up an XBox just for that game, as my home computer is too old to handle that game. Thankfully for my wallet, it's only been half temptation. Besides, with the PS3, and God of War III on its way, I'm set!
| 347 |
SixDegrees Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:53:51am |
| 348 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:54:06am |
re: #335 Obdicut
Mandy, your breadth of knowledge always astonishes me.
And yes, you're entirely right. It's one of the things you get told when you become a boxer, too. "Don't get a concussion, or you'll get a finger in your ass."
Them's some motivating words.
I remember when this story first hit the wire.
| 352 |
njdhockeyfan Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:54:44am |
| 353 |
MrSilverDragon Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:54:46am |
| 354 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:54:46am |
re: #339 cliffster
Wow, and you didn't even know what "spunk" is... ;)
No, I didn't.
Now I'll never think of Mary Tyler Moore or Ed Asner in the same way.
| 355 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:54:50am |
re: #327 MandyManners
Unlike the situation at hand, there is no situation in which a forced vaginal examination is mandated. Rectal exams in the case of concussion are necessary to ascertain possible nerve damage and further trauma.
Mandy, the issue was a fully conscious patient's right to decline treatment.
| 356 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:55:04am |
re: #341 SixDegrees
I'm fairly sure when you're suspected of being concussed, you're not considered competent.
If a patient has a fever of 103 and demands to leave, they won't be allowed to, either.
| 357 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:55:27am |
re: #326 njdhockeyfan
Let's take a look at some of those jobs the stimulus bill has created...
Do we really need another stimulus bill?
So, you provide a Fox News article that cherry picks approximately ~100 million or so dollars out of a multi-BILLION dollar stimulus plan. And then completely write off the entire thing.
The VAST majority of the stimulus was direct infusions of cash into state budgets. States that would have been unable to keep their schools, police and fire departments (among other things) open without this stimulus. But you provide no alternative solution for how to keep those jobs.
You would rather that millions of these teachers, policemen and firemen lose their jobs? You think that would have been beneficial for the country's unemployment rate? Puhlease. You're just looking to score cheap political points off a program that you KNOW was completely and utterly necessary to prevent our country from falling off a cliff into the abyss economically.
| 358 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:55:49am |
re: #346 MrSilverDragon
I've been half tempted to pick up an XBox just for that game, as my home computer is too old to handle that game. Thankfully for my wallet, it's only been half temptation. Besides, with the PS3, and God of War III on its way, I'm set!
I got the Xbox for Christmas 2008, but haven't really been able to play it much because the Mrs. Fish wants to watch TV (which runs through my computer) and I want to play games (which also runs through the computer). Now, however, I'm able to completely split both, with dual monitors and recently the ability to direct the Xbox sound into my gaming headset. So we're both happy. Next step: To obtain a PS3 and so make the Mrs. Fish happy. She's a Playstation fangirl.
| 359 |
njdhockeyfan Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:56:06am |
Signs of waste? $1 million used to tout stimulus funds at work in Ohio
A state senator from Ohio says his state is spending $1 million on road signs to advertise the use of stimulus money for road projects. In other words, the state is using your money to tell you it's spending your money.
State Sen. Tim Grendell, R-Ohio, calls it a waste of taxpayer dollars. The road signs he's concerned about display words such as "Project Funded by the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act" Some road projects have two signs, and some don't have any at all, but the signs aren't cheap.
The bigger signs can cost as much as $3,000 each, according to Grendell, who says this is just a big "thank you" to the Obama Administration.
He told CNN, "Send a fruit basket if you want to say 'thank you.' Don't waste a million dollars saying 'thank' you to Washington for giving us back our tax money."
Grendell says the message here is that stimulus dollars are "being spent stupidly."
| 360 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:56:37am |
I'm reading about Uganda at work today, probably for several hours. Lots of nasty stuff going on there, even long after Amin left.
| 361 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:56:59am |
re: #341 SixDegrees
It doesn't matter whether the procedure is necessary or not - the issue is whether the procedure in question was refused by the patient. If so, administering it anyway - by force or otherwise - is a gross breach of medical ethics and the law.
So, to make the analogy more exact - you go to the doctor, the doctor suggests that you have an exam, you refuse, and the doctor has you strapped down and performs the exam anyway, against your stated wishes. Is that ever acceptable? (Note that we excluded cases where you're non-responsive or incompetent earlier.)
I'm not comfortable with the refusal being ignored but, combativeness in a patient with a head injury could be a sign of a more serious injury.
But, there is NO situation in which a forced vaginal examination is part of the protocol.
| 363 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:57:51am |
| 364 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:57:57am |
re: #359 njdhockeyfan
Signs of waste? $1 million used to tout stimulus funds at work in Ohio
And I suppose those signs were built by? Who?
Certainly not small businesses who manufacture signs and employ Ohio workers! I'm sure the signs were created magically, with no employees or companies to receive that $1 million dollars as payment in exchange for their labor and materials.
| 365 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:58:23am |
re: #355 Spare O'Lake
Mandy, the issue was a fully conscious patient's right to decline treatment.
See No. 461, please.
| 366 |
lawhawk Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:58:44am |
re: #318 drcordell
Sattv and NDhockey, you seem to be vehemently opposed to the stimulus. Yet I haven't actually seen you produce any concrete evidence of its ineffectiveness. And no, pointing out that unemployment is 10% doesn't count, since real economists nearly all agree that without the stimulus we would easily be up at 15% or higher.
If you had your way and the stimulus was not enacted, how would you have filled the budget deficits in nearly every state? What money would those states be using to make sure that their teachers, fireman and policemen are still able to have jobs? And through what mechanism would you have helped prevent unemployment from sliding past 10% to 15%?
What evidence do you have of any states actually taking steps to cut spending on their own. NJ raised its spending. NY raised its spending and used overly optimistic revenue projections - increasing their deficits in the process. Rinse and repeat across the nation. Their spending was out of control and these states used the stimulus funds to paper over their spending and revenue deficits - a situation that will not be repeated in this upcoming fiscal year.
That means that all the states that ignored their dire fiscal problems and pushed them off one year are now doubling down on their deficits. Some are hoping for another bailout from the feds. Or they're looking to raise taxes.
Spending cuts? They're barely on the table. In NJ, Christie proposed a spending freeze that would have required localities to tap into their reserve funds to finish out the current fiscal year, and that's being called a massive cut in education spending by Democrats and the unions even though the schools have the money to finish out the fiscal year.
Some states, like CO have engaged in furloughs of state workers. UT went to a 4-day workweek for state workers in nonessential agencies to save money. It appears to have worked in those states (longer workday, means same hours are put in, but lower costs for operation due to a 3-day weekend). Furlough days means additional savings for longer weekend.
In the vast majority of cases, the fire, police and teachers jobs were never going to be touched by any spending cuts. They're always touted as being on the line - but anyone who watches the budget process knows that never happens. Those unions are simply too strong and have too much hold and sway to let their members hang out to dry. It always ends up being a strawman argument on behalf of the politicians who oppose cuts in state spending of any kind.
As for the unemployment rates - there's quite a bit of games played by the BLS in terms of how they calculate the rates - the U3 (which is around 10%) and the U6 (which is 16-17% or more). If they cut the size of the workforce, it makes the rate look that much better, even if the economy keeps shedding jobs. That's how you can get a stable or declining rate at a time when job loss increased (as was the case in the past couple of months).
| 367 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:58:49am |
re: #353 MrSilverDragon
Are we at the beginning of the final countdown? (cue Europe!)
I dunno. Let's ask the Greeks.
| 368 |
SixDegrees Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:59:17am |
re: #361 MandyManners
I'm not comfortable with the refusal being ignored but, combativeness in a patient with a head injury could be a sign of a more serious injury.
But, there is NO situation in which a forced vaginal examination is part of the protocol.
There's no situation in which a forced exam of any kind is part of any protocol.
| 369 |
MrSilverDragon Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:59:26am |
re: #358 thedopefishlives
Next step: To obtain a PS3 and so make the Mrs. Fish happy. She's a Playstation fangirl.
She's got a +1 in my book already! I managed to get my wife hooked on the PS3, as she was never really a gamer until she started using it. Once she tried "Portal", no more convincing was necessary. I often come home from work and she's either playing the drums or singing in "Rock Band". I love it!
| 370 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:59:43am |
re: #365 MandyManners
See No. 461, please.
#361, I presume, unless you're somehow foretelling. Which would just plain be creepy.
| 371 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:00:37am |
re: #361 MandyManners
Except for one episode of House, actually.
It was a case of a girl who had severe allergies to just about everything.
He correctly deduced that what was causing her anaphlyactic shock was a tick that had bitten her in the unmentionable regions, carried there by her boyfriend. She was unconscious, but he didn't seek consent before he, uh, followed up on his theory, because her life was at risk, found the tick, and removed it, saving her life.
But I rather think that's a bit of a corner case that's unlikely to really occur.
| 372 |
darthstar Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:00:44am |
Good morning, everyone...what's got everyone's butt in a pucker today?
| 373 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:01:05am |
re: #369 MrSilverDragon
She's got a +1 in my book already! I managed to get my wife hooked on the PS3, as she was never really a gamer until she started using it. Once she tried "Portal", no more convincing was necessary. I often come home from work and she's either playing the drums or singing in "Rock Band". I love it!
Myself, I'm not a big fan of PS3 except for one thing: Guitar Hero. My wife adores the game, and I really can't disagree at all. I hate the regular PS-style controllers, they just don't work as well for me as the Xbox controllers do. Wii is right out.
| 374 |
njdhockeyfan Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:01:21am |
Inspector questions airport stimulus projects
The Obama administration used economic stimulus money to pay for 50 airport projects that didn't meet the grant criteria and approved projects at four airports with a history of mismanaging federal grants, a government watchdog said Monday.
Transportation Department Inspector General Calvin Scovel said he plans to examine the Federal Aviation Administration's process for selecting programs for the $1.1 billion in grant money.
Among the projects that Scovel said didn't meet the FAA's minimum score was $14 million that went to Akiachak, Alaska, a town of 659 residents, to replace its airfield. The town has a seaplane and is only 14 nautical miles from the state's fourth busiest airport.
Nearly $15 million went to another Alaskan town, Ouzinkie, that has 167 residents, to replace its gravel runway. The town has a float-plane landing area in its harbor. Barges also provide cargo delivery from Kodiak, 10 miles away.
Other projects Scovel said didn't meet FAA's threshold were $4.8 billion for a new taxiway in Findlay, Ohio; $2.2 million for a runway extension at Wilbur Airport in Washington, $2 million for an apron at Warrensburg-Skyhaven Airport in Missouri, and $909,806 to design a new runway at a small airport near Dover, Del. He said those airports don't provide commercial passenger service and have limited flight operations.
"According to FAA, the Dover project was chosen because it was the state's only project that was 'ready to go,'" Scovel said in a letter to the department.
| 375 |
RogueOne Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:01:35am |
re: #357 drcordell
The VAST majority of the stimulus was direct infusions of cash into state budgets. States that would have been unable to keep their schools, police and fire departments (among other things) open without this stimulus. But you provide no alternative solution for how to keep those jobs.You would rather that millions of these teachers, policemen and firemen lose their jobs? You think that would have been beneficial for the country's unemployment rate? Puhlease. You're just looking to score cheap political points off a program that you KNOW was completely and utterly necessary to prevent our country from falling off a cliff into the abyss economically.
A short term solution spending billions of dollars isn't very smart. He gave you a solution, it's called living within your means. What are those states going to do once the stimulus cash runs out? Part of being in a leadership role is making tough decisions, the money sent to the states just delayed the inevitable. I notice you were quick to jump saying the stimulus money sent to the states was keeping fireman/policeman/teachers employed while ignoring the money being wasted on programs that are being slashed and all the spending on new programs states can't possibly afford.
| 376 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:01:42am |
re: #368 SixDegrees
There's no situation in which a forced exam of any kind is part of any protocol.
Yes, there is. Concussion is that situation.
| 377 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:02:32am |
re: #371 Obdicut
Except for one episode of House, actually.
It was a case of a girl who had severe allergies to just about everything.
He correctly deduced that what was causing her anaphlyactic shock was a tick that had bitten her in the unmentionable regions, carried there by her boyfriend. She was unconscious, but he didn't seek consent before he, uh, followed up on his theory, because her life was at risk, found the tick, and removed it, saving her life.
But I rather think that's a bit of a corner case that's unlikely to really occur.
That's not force.
| 378 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:02:32am |
re: #365 MandyManners
See No. 461, please.
Yes, I see what you're saying.
I wonder what the protocol would be if an unconscious female was brought into the emergency department with severe vaginal bleeding.
| 380 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:02:45am |
re: #368 SixDegrees
Of course there is: when a patient is not considered competent.
| 381 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:03:09am |
re: #366 lawhawk
All of these points are relevant. And I thank you first and foremost for responding in a substantive manner instead of copying and pasting some Fox News joke of a hit piece.
But ultimately, the point that remains is the majority of stimulus dollars went to state budgets. And yes, those states potentially could have slashed their budgets to avoid taking the stimulus dollars. But that still means state employees losing their jobs, or taking pay cuts. So by taking the stimulus money, the states were able to keep more workers employed. Which is the point of the entire stimulus plan. Keep workers employed so they can keep spending money. In a consumer-spending driven economy, that is the way you keep things on track.
| 382 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:03:13am |
re: #378 Spare O'Lake
Yes, I see what you're saying.
I wonder what the protocol would be if an unconscious female was brought into the emergency department with severe vaginal bleeding.
Vast difference.
| 383 |
Mr. Crankypants Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:03:19am |
| 384 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:03:36am |
Hello, hello! What have we here?
[Link: www.foxnews.com...]
The U.S. Army is investigating allegations that soldiers were attempting to poison the food supply at Fort Jackson in South Carolina.
The ongoing probe began two months ago, Chris Grey, a spokesman for the Army’s Criminal Investigation Division, told Fox News.
The Army is taking the allegations “extremely seriously,” Grey said, but so far, "there is no credible information to support the allegations."
Five suspects, detained in December, were part of an Arabic translation program called "09 Lima" and use Arabic as their first language, two sources told Fox News. Another military source said they were Muslim. It wasn't clear whether they were still being held.
| 385 |
lawhawk Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:03:42am |
re: #359 njdhockeyfan
$1 million could repave several miles of road. $1 million could go to rehabilitate a bridge. It could paint several bridges to prevent corrosion and damage. After all, that was a big selling point of the ARRA of 2009 - to rebuild our infrastructure.
$1 million for signs touting the ARRA of 2009 is a waste. It's precisely the kind of waste that sticks in the craw of many precisely because we don't have the money to pay for any of this, even if *this* is stuff that needs to be done or should have been done but was deferred for years by localities that didn't have their own funds to do it.
| 386 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:03:45am |
re: #377 MandyManners
Yes, it was just lack of consent. Apologies. And it strengthens rather than weakens your point-- the exception that proves the rule.
| 387 |
The Left Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:04:25am |
re: #333 Spare O'Lake
Weren't you defending someone calling for lynching someone...oooh, last night? As free speech?
Now you're 'offended' by the word 'fuck'?
How much have you donated to the ACLU today, this year, last year, in the last ten years?
LOL.
| 388 |
darthstar Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:04:28am |
re: #376 MandyManners
Yes, there is. Concussion is that situation.
If a patient is disoriented to name, time, place, OR day of week, they are considered to be suffering from head trauma until proven otherwise. I'm with Mandy on this one.
| 389 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:04:47am |
re: #384 Guanxi88
Hello, hello! What have we here?
[Link: www.foxnews.com...]
The U.S. Army is investigating allegations that soldiers were attempting to poison the food supply at Fort Jackson in South Carolina.
The ongoing probe began two months ago, Chris Grey, a spokesman for the Army’s Criminal Investigation Division, told Fox News.
The Army is taking the allegations “extremely seriously,” Grey said, but so far, "there is no credible information to support the allegations."
Five suspects, detained in December, were part of an Arabic translation program called "09 Lima" and use Arabic as their first language, two sources told Fox News. Another military source said they were Muslim. It wasn't clear whether they were still being held.
Wow.
| 390 |
RogueOne Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:04:52am |
My dinger quit working, must be all this talk of forced rectal exams.
| 391 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:04:52am |
re: #378 Spare O'Lake
Yes, I see what you're saying.
I wonder what the protocol would be if an unconscious female was brought into the emergency department with severe vaginal bleeding.
An unconscious patient gives what's called "implied consent." The ER crew would do whatever was necessary to help her.
| 392 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:05:01am |
re: #332 MrSilverDragon
Good morning, everyone.
I can't believe that it's finally Friday, and that I actually have a weekend with no obligations to anyone. It's gonna be a "BioShock 2" marathon! Woohoo!
Have fun. I finished it last week. It's pretty good.
| 393 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:05:23am |
re: #388 darthstar
Also, if there are any floating stars or birdies circling the patient's head, or a large lump slowly growing ever taller coming out of their head.
| 394 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:05:43am |
Al Haig's in the hospital - that's all I've heard so far.
| 395 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:05:58am |
re: #391 Mad Al-Jaffee
Also: She's going to be mad as hell if she was just a deep sleeper with a heavy period.
| 396 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:05:59am |
re: #386 Obdicut
Yes, it was just lack of consent. Apologies. And it strengthens rather than weakens your point-- the exception that proves the rule.
OTOH, if a rape victim refuses an examination, she doesn't get one. But, if she comes in unconscious, one is performed.
| 397 |
Mr. Crankypants Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:06:04am |
re: #373 thedopefishlives
Myself, I'm not a big fan of PS3 except for one thing: Guitar Hero. My wife adores the game, and I really can't disagree at all. I hate the regular PS-style controllers, they just don't work as well for me as the Xbox controllers do. Wii is right out.
I dunno..we enjoy our wii quite a bit...although I'm working my way up to asking Mrs. Barnum for an Xbox or PS3 for Big Boy games.
Xbox looks like it fits my pocket book better..any recommendations either way?
| 398 |
RogueOne Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:06:14am |
re: #388 darthstar
If a patient is disoriented to name, time, place, OR day of week, they are considered to be suffering from head trauma until proven otherwise. I'm with Mandy on this one.
Butt in this case he wasn't. He passed the other tests, the only thing left to do was the rectal exam which he declined. The only evidence of a possible concussion was a bump on the head.
| 399 |
SixDegrees Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:07:04am |
re: #376 MandyManners
Yes, there is. Concussion is that situation.
Not unless the patient has been found to be incapable of directing their own care. A concussion, itself, does not equal incompetence or incapacitation. If the patient says "No," it means "No" except is a very few, rare circumstances. And invoking incompetence when a patient is conscious and responsive is not one of them unless a formal diagnosis of such has been made.
| 400 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:07:11am |
re: #389 MandyManners
Wow.
Yeah, but CBS has a different take on it:
[Link: www.cbsnews.com...]
(AP) The Army has been investigating allegations that soldiers' food at its largest basic training base in South Carolina was being poisoned, but no credible information to support the allegations has been found, an Army spokesman said Thursday.
Army spokesman Lt. Col. Christopher Garver said the investigation has been going on "for almost two months" at Fort Jackson outside Columbia. It wasn't clear who made the allegations or whether any soldiers had been sickened.
Garver said he could not release any specifics of the investigation by the Army's Criminal Investigative Service to protect its integrity.
"I can say that, according to CID spokespersons, they have not found any credible information to substantiate the allegations," Garver, who's based at the Pentagon, said in an e-mail.
He said he is unaware of any arrests made in the investigation.
The investigation was first reported by Fox News.
Army spokesmen from Fort Jackson didn't return repeated phone calls and e-mails seeking further comment.
Fort Jackson puts more than 50,000 men and women through entry-level and advanced training courses every year. Its food service spans an array of some 13 dining halls and about 40,000 hot meals are served on the base daily.
--
So, at this point, all we know for sure is that there's a Fort Jackson in South Carolina
| 401 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:07:14am |
re: #375 RogueOne
A short term solution spending billions of dollars isn't very smart. He gave you a solution, it's called living within your means. What are those states going to do once the stimulus cash runs out? Part of being in a leadership role is making tough decisions, the money sent to the states just delayed the inevitable. I notice you were quick to jump saying the stimulus money sent to the states was keeping fireman/policeman/teachers employed while ignoring the money being wasted on programs that are being slashed and all the spending on new programs states can't possibly afford.
The entire economy of this nation was, and arguably still is, teetering on the brink of complete collapse. If there is a single WORST time to slash spending and force state employees out of their jobs, this would be it.
You are exactly right, the stimulus money very well could be delaying the inevitable. But when that delay allows the nation to creep back from the edge of the cliff, it's a necessary evil. I'm not saying that these states don't need to work out a longer term fiscal solution to their budget woes.
But for Christ Sakes your alternative plan was to have every single state just lay off every worker they couldn't afford to pay, simultaneously, during the largest financial collapse in the nations history....
| 402 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:07:31am |
re: #398 RogueOne
Butt in this case he wasn't. He passed the other tests, the only thing left to do was the rectal exam which he declined. The only evidence of a possible concussion was a bump on the head.
From what I recall, he became combative which is one sign of a brain injury.
| 403 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:07:32am |
re: #397 PT Barnum
I dunno..we enjoy our wii quite a bit...although I'm working my way up to asking Mrs. Barnum for an Xbox or PS3 for Big Boy games.
Xbox looks like it fits my pocket book better..any recommendations either way?
15 year old son got a Wii for Christmas three years ago,,,, an X Box two Christmas;s ago. Since the X-Box, I don't think he's used the Wii more than 4 times in the last 14 months
| 404 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:07:51am |
re: #398 RogueOne
I haven't seen anything in any story that said he'd passed every other test and had no other signs. Could you point me to such a source?
| 405 |
Aye Pod Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:07:52am |
re: #322 Spare O'Lake
You came waltzing in here looking for a fight, didn't you.
No that's what you always do. For some reason, you are so traumatised by iceweasel that you apparently devote what you call your life to waiting for opportunities to pounce with your pathetic, petty little remarks.
You are the definition of a snivelling shit.
| 406 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:08:05am |
re: #399 SixDegrees
Not unless the patient has been found to be incapable of directing their own care. A concussion, itself, does not equal incompetence or incapacitation. If the patient says "No," it means "No" except is a very few, rare circumstances. And invoking incompetence when a patient is conscious and responsive is not one of them unless a formal diagnosis of such has been made.
See No. 398, please.
| 407 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:08:46am |
re: #385 lawhawk
$1 million could repave several miles of road. $1 million could go to rehabilitate a bridge. It could paint several bridges to prevent corrosion and damage. After all, that was a big selling point of the ARRA of 2009 - to rebuild our infrastructure.
$1 million for signs touting the ARRA of 2009 is a waste. It's precisely the kind of waste that sticks in the craw of many precisely because we don't have the money to pay for any of this, even if *this* is stuff that needs to be done or should have been done but was deferred for years by localities that didn't have their own funds to do it.
So that $1 million dollars wasn't injected into the economy? Companies that make signs and the employees they pay don't really count? I'm not trying to be a smart-aleck here, I'm simply pointing out that even "stupid" projects keep people employed. $1 million dollars of funding to mop the capitol floor may sound stupid, unless you're the janitor whose salary it pays.
| 408 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:08:52am |
re: #400 Guanxi88
So, at this point, all we know for sure is that there's a Fort Jackson in South Carolina
Are you sure?
| 409 |
Mr. Crankypants Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:09:01am |
re: #405 Jimmah
No that's what you always do. For some reason, you are so traumatised by iceweasel that you apparently devote what you call your life to waiting for opportunities to pounce with your pathetic, petty little remarks.
You are the definition of a snivelling shit.
Let's not turn this thread into another "butthurt" thread, okay?
Gaze seems to be the appropriate response here.
| 410 |
RogueOne Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:09:35am |
re: #401 drcordell
The entire economy of this nation was, and arguably still is, teetering on the brink of complete collapse. If there is a single WORST time to slash spending and force state employees out of their jobs, this would be it.
You are exactly right, the stimulus money very well could be delaying the inevitable. But when that delay allows the nation to creep back from the edge of the cliff, it's a necessary evil. I'm not saying that these states don't need to work out a longer term fiscal solution to their budget woes.
But for Christ Sakes your alternative plan was to have every single state just lay off every worker they couldn't afford to pay, simultaneously, during the largest financial collapse in the nations history...
Eventually someone is going to have to make the call to do the prudent thing, cut spending. Indiana, NJ, and TX have all made the right decision and this year and next will be in a much better position than the states that refused to make the call. Yes, in the short-term it sucks but throwing good money after bad isn't the smart way to go.
| 411 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:09:49am |
re: #408 MandyManners
Are you sure?
Well, I've got at least two sources - Fox & CBS news - telling me so.
| 412 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:10:06am |
I'm making chicken parmigiana tonight so I gotta' go see if I have enough onion, garlic, basil and cheeses. bbiab
| 413 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:10:08am |
re: #399 SixDegrees
Also, there are two things here:
1. In this case, it may have been improper to do the rectal exam, but there are times when doing it without consent for a suspected brain injury is totally normal.
2. There is never a time that a forced vaginal exam is necessary.
So your comparison was still rather off by a mile.
| 414 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:10:08am |
re: #397 PT Barnum
I dunno..we enjoy our wii quite a bit...although I'm working my way up to asking Mrs. Barnum for an Xbox or PS3 for Big Boy games.
Xbox looks like it fits my pocket book better..any recommendations either way?
Both are really good platforms. It kinda depends on the type of games you like to play. If you're into Rock Band and Guitar Hero, Playstation is the only way to go. If you like RPG's and fantasy games, again, Playstation. If you want shoot-em-ups and lots of ass-kicking, go Xbox and never look back.
| 415 |
RogueOne Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:10:28am |
re: #402 MandyManners
He only became combative when they said they were going to stick a finger in his butt. Granted, he was a homophobic goob for refusing the test but still, IMO, well within his rights.
| 416 |
Mr. Crankypants Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:10:45am |
re: #403 sattv4u2
15 year old son got a Wii for Christmas three years ago,,, an X Box two Christmas;s ago. Since the X-Box, I don't think he's used the Wii more than 4 times in the last 14 months
I got the Wii for an 8 year old and Mrs Barnum. Wii was a bit more kid friendly than the other two.
Now to decide which system to buy for dad, it's either that or big bucks for a tricked out PC for gaming.
| 417 |
Aye Pod Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:10:58am |
re: #333 Spare O'Lake
Such a filthy mouth on you.
Get the fainting couch please! Spare O Lake has been exposed to the word 'fuck'. He's genuinely shocked, and not just opportunistically looking for a grievance either, oh no.../
Pathetic.
| 418 |
MrSilverDragon Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:11:00am |
re: #397 PT Barnum
I dunno..we enjoy our wii quite a bit...although I'm working my way up to asking Mrs. Barnum for an Xbox or PS3 for Big Boy games.
Xbox looks like it fits my pocket book better..any recommendations either way?
My suggestion is to see if there are any particular games for either console that you might prefer. I went with the PS3 as there were exclusives that I really wanted to play that I knew weren't going to be on the Xbox, so that directed my choice. My other reason was that many of my friends that had Xboxes were getting the dreaded "Red Ring of Death", so that concreted my choice. I know there's been many improvements since, and the red ring doesn't happen as often.
It's whatever suits you best. I don't play the "my console is better" game because I have better things to do with my life than sit on forums and argue with 12 year olds. ;)
| 419 |
Lidane Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:11:00am |
Yet another reason why I have an unabashed girl crush on Rachel Maddow:
Maddow At CPAC 2010 Conference
That's awesome, IMO.
| 420 |
njdhockeyfan Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:11:23am |
re: #407 drcordell
So that $1 million dollars wasn't injected into the economy? Companies that make signs and the employees they pay don't really count? I'm not trying to be a smart-aleck here, I'm simply pointing out that even "stupid" projects keep people employed. $1 million dollars of funding to mop the capitol floor may sound stupid, unless you're the janitor whose salary it pays.
Why do we need to give tax money out to pay for temporary jobs? How is that helping the economy? Cutting taxes so businesses can hire permanent employees & tax payers have more money to spend is the answer.
| 421 |
SixDegrees Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:11:26am |
re: #382 MandyManners
Vast difference.
Yes, because the patient postulated is unconscious. Let's assume the same circumstances, but modified so the patient is conscious, and actively stating that she doesn't want a vaginal exam.
You know what happens? The doctor's don't do one. They're free to argue, explain, cajole and even, to some degree, intimidate the patient into allowing the exam, but if the patient refuses, that's the end of it. (Barring, once again, a formal diagnosis of incompetence, which has already been set aside several times but which keeps getting raised.)
| 422 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:11:33am |
re: #405 Jimmah
Let's not keep doing the bicker.
We're having a lot of fun talking about anuses without descending into butthurt and asshattery.
| 423 |
The Left Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:11:35am |
Gosh, I wonder what Mandy's reaction would be if someone suggested she needed a 'forced vaginal exam'.
Gosh, I wonder how the wingnut fraternity would react to that suggestion.
| 424 |
Mr. Crankypants Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:12:11am |
re: #414 thedopefishlives
Both are really good platforms. It kinda depends on the type of games you like to play. If you're into Rock Band and Guitar Hero, Playstation is the only way to go. If you like RPG's and fantasy games, again, Playstation. If you want shoot-em-ups and lots of ass-kicking, go Xbox and never look back.
I'm more into RPGs...so PS3 is probably my choice. just wish it wasn't the same price as upgrading my current PC..
| 425 |
lawhawk Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:12:24am |
re: #381 drcordell
Taking pay cuts or shedding jobs is what every private sector business has to contend with in a recession and economic downturn. The government is not and should not be immune to those issues; in NJ, the state workforce keeps growing even as the size of the state population remains constant or has decreased. Cutting spending can be done in ways large and small - eliminating and consolidating duplicate services is one way - slashing bureaucracies is another. In Bergen County, we've got a county police force, county sheriff, state police, and local police forces. Are all those layers necessary? NYC eliminated housing police and school police and rolled transit police into the NYPD in the 1990s. That saved duplicate efforts.
NYC has more than 120,000 employees (nearly 40,000 are cops). For 8 million people - meaning that it has more workers than some entire states (and that doesn't include the bloated state workforce). Those people with state jobs invariably have benefits that exceed those in the private sector. These two states have massively underfunded state pensions and no inclination or will to make sure that they're properly funded (which would highlight the disparity in benefits between the private and public sector in a way that would completely blow the budgets of those two states (and many others at that)).
| 426 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:12:33am |
re: #416 PT Barnum
I got the Wii for an 8 year old and Mrs Barnum. Wii was a bit more kid friendly than the other two.
Now to decide which system to buy for dad, it's either that or big bucks for a tricked out PC for gaming.
I might also add that a tricked-out gaming PC, while more expensive than any of the consoles, is not a terribly budget-breaking endeavor. I'm an amateur computer builder in my spare time, and I do pretty good at keeping performance within a budget.
| 427 |
RogueOne Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:12:41am |
re: #422 Obdicut
We're having a lot of fun talking about anuses without descending into butthurt and asshattery.
Manual +1.
anyone else having the same dinger problem?
| 428 |
The Left Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:12:53am |
re: #422 Obdicut
Right, let's all talk about 'forced vaginal exams'. Hey, that's FUN!
| 429 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:13:27am |
re: #424 PT Barnum
I'm more into RPGs...so PS3 is probably my choice. just wish it wasn't the same price as upgrading my current PC..
The main reason I say that is because Final Fantasy is arguably one of the greatest RPG series out there, and it's always been a Sony exclusive. I myself have never actually played, as I'm not an RPG type, but you won't regret it.
| 430 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:13:36am |
re: #427 RogueOne
anyone else having the same dinger problem?
1. I hear there's a pill for that.
2. Ask your girlfriend.
3. I don't know, I'm using both hands to type.
4. Etc.
| 431 |
SixDegrees Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:13:41am |
re: #398 RogueOne
Butt in this case he wasn't. He passed the other tests, the only thing left to do was the rectal exam which he declined. The only evidence of a possible concussion was a bump on the head.
The facts in this particular case seem confused or missing, at best. But I'm assuming that no diagnosis of incompetence had been made, and that the staff forced an exam after an apparently competent patient had told them not to perform it. Very, very bad, no matter what the procedure was.
| 432 |
lawhawk Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:13:43am |
re: #384 Guanxi88
No evidence of any plot - it looks like someone was jumping the gun and didn't want anything to rise to the level of a Fort Hood massacre; in the process they may have smeared the interpreters who happen to speak Arabic.
| 434 |
Lidane Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:14:06am |
re: #397 PT Barnum
I dunno..we enjoy our wii quite a bit...although I'm working my way up to asking Mrs. Barnum for an Xbox or PS3 for Big Boy games.
Xbox looks like it fits my pocket book better..any recommendations either way?
They're both solid systems. What I'd recommend is looking at the list of exclusive games that each offers and deciding which one suits your tastes more.
| 435 |
lawhawk Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:14:10am |
re: #430 Obdicut
And if you're having problems with your dinger for three or more hours, consult a doctor. ///
| 436 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:14:13am |
re: #428 iceweasel
It was a terrible comparison, as Mandy elegantly demonstrated.
| 437 |
Aye Pod Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:14:28am |
re: #409 PT Barnum
Let's not turn this thread into another "butthurt" thread, okay?
Gaze seems to be the appropriate response here.
Address that to Spare then - he's the one doing the goading. I'm not letting him away with it.
| 438 |
Mr. Crankypants Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:15:25am |
re: #437 Jimmah
Address that to Spare then - he's the one doing the goading. I'm not letting him away with it.
How about just ignoring him?
Eventually people who goad get tired of shouting at an empty room and quit.
| 439 |
MrSilverDragon Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:15:28am |
re: #429 thedopefishlives
The main reason I say that is because Final Fantasy is arguably one of the greatest RPG series out there, and it's always been a Sony exclusive. I myself have never actually played, as I'm not an RPG type, but you won't regret it.
Well, the latest Final Fantasy is no longer Sony exclusive. I think Square Enix realized that there's profit to be had, so...
I certainly can't fault them for it.
| 440 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:16:06am |
re: #431 SixDegrees
But I'm assuming that no diagnosis of incompetence had been made, and that the staff forced an exam after an apparently competent patient had told them not to perform it.
Well yes, you are.
Are you willing to admit that in cases of concussion a rectal exam may be performed on an unconsenting patient, whereas there is never a time, except in highly improbable circumstances, where a 'forced vaginal exam' would be necessary, and that your comparison was off the mark?
| 441 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:16:51am |
re: #439 MrSilverDragon
Well, the latest Final Fantasy is no longer Sony exclusive. I think Square Enix realized that there's profit to be had, so...
I certainly can't fault them for it.
Yeah, Guitar Hero used to be a Sony exclusive, but they've had an Xbox version out for I think the last two releases. PS3's stranglehold on certain franchises is slipping due to the enormous popularity of the (much cheaper) Xbox. Or, as I like to call it, the "Halo gaming console".
| 442 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:17:02am |
re: #438 PT Barnum
How about just ignoring him?
Eventually people who goad get tired of shouting at an empty room and quit.
A and MEN
| 443 |
njdhockeyfan Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:17:09am |
Krauthammer: More Americans Believe Elvis Is Alive than Believe Obama's Stimulus Worked
| 445 |
Mr. Crankypants Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:17:28am |
re: #439 MrSilverDragon
Well, the latest Final Fantasy is no longer Sony exclusive. I think Square Enix realized that there's profit to be had, so...
I certainly can't fault them for it.
I'm enjoying Bio Shock on my PC, but my tastes tend to run more to adventure and RPG games. If they made a game where all you did was explore and solve puzzles, that would be good..(Myst or 7th guest, for example, were two of my favorites)
I'm not much for the FPS genre. I just don't like guns that much.
| 446 |
lawhawk Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:17:29am |
re: #407 drcordell
Except if those were jobs that were never going to be lost in the first place?
Make work jobs to simply make work aren't beneficial and once the money dries up, those people will again be looking for work. That defers the problem, and takes money from projects that can add to substantive growth and employment to say nothing of improved infrastructure. That's why the sign money is so ridiculous. It's money that would have better been spent on infrastructure than on signs touting some lesser amount of infrastructure work funded by the ARRA of 2009.
| 447 |
Lidane Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:17:32am |
re: #429 thedopefishlives
The main reason I say that is because Final Fantasy is arguably one of the greatest RPG series out there, and it's always been a Sony exclusive.
Until this year, actually. The next Final Fantasy game will be on both the PS3 and the 360. Microsoft is even putting out a Final Fantasy console bundle for it.
| 449 |
darthstar Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:18:00am |
re: #398 RogueOne
Butt in this case he wasn't. He passed the other tests, the only thing left to do was the rectal exam which he declined. The only evidence of a possible concussion was a bump on the head.
It's possible he wasn't alert & oriented when he arrived at the hospital. Also, if they didn't perform the procedure, and he did have a more serious injury, he would have sued for that. His saying he can no longer work because someone stuck a finger up his butt is a little silly:
“Psychologically, it changed his life completely,” Mr. Marrone said of the episode. “He hasn’t been able to work. He has absolutely no trust in the system at all: doctors or the police. He has post-traumatic stress syndrome.” Mr. Persaud has been under the care of a psychiatrist who made the diagnosis, Mr. Marrone said.
| 450 |
Aye Pod Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:18:03am |
re: #438 PT Barnum
How about just ignoring him?
Eventually people who goad get tired of shouting at an empty room and quit.
Because I normally ignore that little shit, - you actually have no idea how many petty little jabs of this turd's that I ignore - but this kind of thing just keeps happening. Occasionally, I get fed up with it enough to make a comment like that.
| 451 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:18:23am |
re: #432 lawhawk
No evidence of any plot - it looks like someone was jumping the gun and didn't want anything to rise to the level of a Fort Hood massacre; in the process they may have smeared the interpreters who happen to speak Arabic.
Yeah - conflicting reports all over the place, with the main outlet running with it (CNS) not known for objectivity when it comes to Muslims.
| 452 |
Mr. Crankypants Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:18:38am |
re: #443 njdhockeyfan
Krauthammer: More Americans Believe Elvis Is Alive than Believe Obama's Stimulus Worked
[Video]
Krauthammer would know. He's part of the right wing cabal pushing the meme that the stimulus was a complete failure.
| 453 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:19:08am |
re: #420 njdhockeyfan
Why do we need to give tax money out to pay for temporary jobs? How is that helping the economy? Cutting taxes so businesses can hire permanent employees & tax payers have more money to spend is the answer.
Over one third of the entire stimulus plan was comprised of tax cuts. Billions upon billions of dollars of tax cuts.
| 454 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:19:49am |
re: #450 Jimmah
It just seems to me that he's baiting you and ice, and any time you give him any attention, he likes it. Plus, it's uncomfy for the rest of it.
I'll always stick up for you guys for any really over the line attack, but when it's just petty crab-assing I think it's better just to let people look like the nitpicky grouches they are being.
| 455 |
Mr. Crankypants Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:20:05am |
re: #450 Jimmah
Because I normally ignore that little shit, - you actually have no idea how many petty little jabs of this turd's that I ignore - but this kind of thing just keeps happening. Occasionally, I get fed up with it enough to make a comment like that.
So you gave him the payoff he was looking for. So all you've really taught him is that if he persists, eventually he will get to you.
| 456 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:20:24am |
re: #445 PT Barnum
I'm enjoying Bio Shock on my PC, but my tastes tend to run more to adventure and RPG games. If they made a game where all you did was explore and solve puzzles, that would be good..(Myst or 7th guest, for example, were two of my favorites)
I'm not much for the FPS genre. I just don't like guns that much.
I'm actually a real-time strategy guy, so you can imagine how much I'm drooling over the pending release of Starcraft 2. However, when I really need to de-stress, it's time to roll out the big guns and shoot up some vaguely humanoid aliens that are trying to claw my face off. I've always had a bit of a time with adventure and RPG style games, because while they can be exciting at times, they also tend to drag more often than not. Mass Effect 2 is kinda like that.
| 457 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:20:32am |
re: #453 drcordell
It's is goddamn amazing to me that many people don't know that.
I've talked to a lot of people who think that the stimulus included a tax hike. What tax hike? They can't tell you.
Ugh.
| 458 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:20:34am |
re: #415 RogueOne
He only became combative when they said they were going to stick a finger in his butt. Granted, he was a homophobic goob for refusing the test but still, IMO, well within his rights.
Would the hospital have been held blameless in court if it had turned out that he did, indeed, have serious injuries that resulted in irreversible damage or death?
| 459 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:20:47am |
This is us (well, some of us) today:
BRIAN: Brothers! Brothers! We should be struggling together!
FRANCIS: We are! Ohh.
BRIAN: We mustn't fight each other! Surely we should be united against the common enemy!
EVERYONE: The Judean People's Front?!
BRIAN: No, no! The Romans!
EVERYONE: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes.
| 460 |
SixDegrees Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:21:39am |
re: #449 darthstar
if they didn't perform the procedure, and he did have a more serious injury, he would have sued for that.
Possibly. But the way refusal of treatment is normally handled is to inform the patient of the risks of such a decision, and if the patient insists on refusing treatment, they're asked to sign a form acknowledging that they have done so after being advised of possible adverse consequences. The form also clearly absolves the hospital of any liability for bad outcomes as a result.
The way it is NOT handled is to force the patient to have the procedure done anyway.
| 461 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:22:02am |
re: #452 PT Barnum
Krauthammer would know. He's part of the right wing cabal pushing the meme that the stimulus was a complete failure.
Krauthammer, Kristol, all of them are completely useless hacks. They would literally call the sky green if Obama announced it were blue.
| 462 |
MrSilverDragon Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:22:20am |
re: #456 thedopefishlives
I'm actually a real-time strategy guy, so you can imagine how much I'm drooling over the pending release of Starcraft 2. However, when I really need to de-stress, it's time to roll out the big guns and shoot up some vaguely humanoid aliens that are trying to claw my face off. I've always had a bit of a time with adventure and RPG style games, because while they can be exciting at times, they also tend to drag more often than not. Mass Effect 2 is kinda like that.
I can't wait until Starcraft 2 comes out. I may have to take a day off of work for it. Even more exciting for me, they've announced "Civilization 5". There's a series I've loved from the very beginning. The screenshots for the new one look absolutely amazing!
| 463 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:23:08am |
re: #460 SixDegrees
The way it is NOT handled is to force the patient to have the procedure done anyway.
Unless you think they have a brain injury, that is.
| 464 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:23:15am |
re: #457 Obdicut
It's is goddamn amazing to me that many people don't know that.
I've talked to a lot of people who think that the stimulus included a tax hike. What tax hike? They can't tell you.
Ugh.
Of course not. They get all worked up over some Fox News article that mentions a million dollars to fund some science project regarding queen ants. Then ignore all of the tax cuts, and the fact that the majority of the funding went directly to state budgets to save jobs.
| 465 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:23:27am |
re: #445 PT Barnum
I'm enjoying Bio Shock on my PC, but my tastes tend to run more to adventure and RPG games. If they made a game where all you did was explore and solve puzzles, that would be good..(Myst or 7th guest, for example, were two of my favorites)
I'm not much for the FPS genre. I just don't like guns that much.
I'm the same way. Dragon Age is my fave now. I got Bioshock in the double pack with Oblivion and it sat on my shelf for the longest time because I don't really like FPS. Then I got H1N1 and was layed out for a couple of weeks. Since most of my games were played out I decided to give it a try. Bioshock became the exception. Loved it. I got Bioshock 2 on the day it came out. That's something a barely ever do. I usually wait for new games to at least go on sale after they've been around for a few months.
| 466 |
Mr. Crankypants Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:23:39am |
re: #462 MrSilverDragon
I can't wait until Starcraft 2 comes out. I may have to take a day off of work for it. Even more exciting for me, they've announced "Civilization 5". There's a series I've loved from the very beginning. The screenshots for the new one look absolutely amazing!
I love dungeon crawls...although for some reason I like them better than FPS games even though they involve even more close quarters combat.
| 467 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:23:47am |
re: #462 MrSilverDragon
I can't wait until Starcraft 2 comes out. I may have to take a day off of work for it. Even more exciting for me, they've announced "Civilization 5". There's a series I've loved from the very beginning. The screenshots for the new one look absolutely amazing!
Hahaha Starcraft 2. I hear that it's also going to come with a copy of Duke Nukem Forever!
| 468 |
lawhawk Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:24:03am |
re: #453 drcordell
Over one third of the entire stimulus plan was comprised of tax cuts. Billions upon billions of dollars of tax cuts.
Please stop calling them tax cuts. The tax rates were not actually cut. The ARRA of 2009 created a whole series of tax exemptions, credits, and deductions. Those are not tax cuts. It means that for those who cannot take those exemptions, credits, or deductions, their tax rate was not changed. Even in the case of the AMT, it was an inflation adjustment to increase the threshold of those who would have to pay AMT (but the AMT rate itself was unchanged).
A taxpayer may see that their tax bill was reduced as a result if they were able to take advantage of the tax credits, exemptions, or deductions. But that's not the same as a tax cut.
The last tax cuts were part of the 2001 and 2003 tax acts.
| 469 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:24:15am |
re: #462 MrSilverDragon
I can't wait until Starcraft 2 comes out. I may have to take a day off of work for it. Even more exciting for me, they've announced "Civilization 5". There's a series I've loved from the very beginning. The screenshots for the new one look absolutely amazing!
Cool. When's it supposed to come out?
| 471 |
ShaunP Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:25:10am |
re: #457 Obdicut
It's is goddamn amazing to me that many people don't know that.
I've talked to a lot of people who think that the stimulus included a tax hike. What tax hike? They can't tell you.
Ugh.
I find it equally amazing that people don't realize cutting taxes and spending money have the same net impact on the deficit...
| 472 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:25:19am |
re: #469 Jadespring
Cool. When's it supposed to come out?
Sometime this year, according to the last Blizzard teleconference.
| 473 |
MrSilverDragon Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:25:46am |
re: #469 Jadespring
Cool. When's it supposed to come out?
Right now it's slated for Fall 2010. No specific date I've seen yet. I am excited, though!
| 474 |
Mr. Crankypants Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:26:15am |
re: #470 Jimmah
re: #455 PT Barnum
Sorry, guys, I'm not Ghandi. Fuck that shit. Maybe if it was your wife who was constantly on the receiving end of this garbage for months, you'd understand my reaction better.
I understand your reaction, I'm just saying it's not terribly productive and doesn't improve the tone of this forum.
The people who enjoy being obnoxious need to be ignored and downdinged into submission in my opinion. Much more productive use of everyone's time.
| 475 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:27:02am |
re: #473 MrSilverDragon
Right now it's slated for Fall 2010. No specific date I've seen yet. I am excited, though!
My wife didn't understand why I was so incredibly excited for SC2. I had to explain to her the phenomenon that is Starcraft. I should go install Brood War on her computer and show her firsthand just how deep the awesome runs.
| 476 |
Mr. Crankypants Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:27:22am |
I gotta go...you guys have a great day.
| 477 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:27:25am |
re: #470 Jimmah
I understand your reaction just fine. I think it's a perfectly natural reaction. I'm not saying that you're reaction in a way that's crazy.
I'm just saying, tactically, if what you want is less shit thrown at Ice, I think more ignoring would be better. It's also something that Charles has pretty clearly indicated that he prefers.
My fiancee doesn't partake in message boards like this because she would fucking tear people to pieces. She's got zero tolerance for people speaking on subjects that they're ignorant about, which, you know, tends to happen.
Anyway: I'm not saying it's wrong to get upset at the constant (and, frankly, creepy) negative attention that Ice gets, but that the emotionally satisfying reaction isn't necessarily the best one.
I'll shut up about it now.
| 478 |
lawhawk Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:27:29am |
re: #457 Obdicut
The Obama Administration did impose a tax hike across the board in the form of the SCHIP tobacco tax hike. It raised the tobacco taxes nationally to purportedly fund the SCHIP program. The cigarette tax increased 62 cents—bringing the total tax on a pack of cigarettes to $1.01; chewing tobacco tax increased from $0.195/lb. to $0.50/lb. and other tobacco taxes were hiked as well.
The goal was certainly laudable, but as I've pointed out repeatedly that with the increase in tobacco taxes, we've reached a point in many localities where revenues fall well short of projections because people have stopped smoking putting the very health programs funded by the tobacco taxes in jeopardy - increasing deficits in the process.
| 479 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:27:46am |
| 480 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:28:56am |
re: #478 lawhawk
Did you miss the entire point of my post or something?
Obama's stimulus contained massive tax cuts. Many people have no clue about this, or think that the stimulus contained tax hikes.
One tobacco tax with a gigantic bundle of tax cuts doth not a tax hike make except in the dimension of Ultrastretch in the galaxy of Ohreallynow.
| 481 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:28:58am |
re: #468 lawhawk
Please stop calling them tax cuts. The tax rates were not actually cut. The ARRA of 2009 created a whole series of tax exemptions, credits, and deductions. Those are not tax cuts. It means that for those who cannot take those exemptions, credits, or deductions, their tax rate was not changed. Even in the case of the AMT, it was an inflation adjustment to increase the threshold of those who would have to pay AMT (but the AMT rate itself was unchanged).
A taxpayer may see that their tax bill was reduced as a result if they were able to take advantage of the tax credits, exemptions, or deductions. But that's not the same as a tax cut.
The last tax cuts were part of the 2001 and 2003 tax acts.
Are you serious? You're going to start playing semantics with the definition of tax cuts now? It's $287 BILLION dollars worth of "tax reduction" or whatever the hell you wish to describe it as.
Obama just can't win no matter what. He cuts taxes by nearly $300 billion dollars, but then it turns out that somehow isn't a "real" tax cut.
| 482 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:29:48am |
| 483 |
ShaunP Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:31:12am |
re: #478 lawhawk
The Obama Administration did impose a tax hike across the board in the form of the SCHIP tobacco tax hike...
So the term "tax cut" can only be used for across the board rate reductions, but the term "tax hike" can be applied to any incremental increase to anyone?
| 484 |
SixDegrees Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:32:21am |
re: #481 drcordell
Are you serious? You're going to start playing semantics with the definition of tax cuts now? It's $287 BILLION dollars worth of "tax reduction" or whatever the hell you wish to describe it as.
Obama just can't win no matter what. He cuts taxes by nearly $300 billion dollars, but then it turns out that somehow isn't a "real" tax cut.
What tax cuts, specifically, are you referring to here?
| 485 |
njdhockeyfan Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:32:44am |
drcordell seems scared to death of Fox News so here is an article from the Washington Post February 17, 2010. Hopefully WaPo is not too right-wing for him.
First-anniversary stimulus report card
Today marks the anniversary of the signing of President Obama's $787 billion stimulus plan, which was designed to give a boost to a struggling economy and save or create jobs, as he said at the time.
How is it doing, one year in?
Here are some things we factually know about the stimulus:
# It added significantly to the budget deficit and national debt.
# It boosted fourth-quarter GDP, which came in at a 5.7 percent annualized rate. How much it goosed the GDP is debatable. A report by Vice President Biden estimates that the stimulus added 1 to 3 percent to the 5.7 percent number.
# Federal agencies are working like mad to spend the stimulus money as fast as they can. According to this interactive graphic, called a Stimulus Speed Chart, created by ProPublica, some agencies have spent much faster than others. For instance, the Railroad Retirement Board has spent 90 percent of its $156 million share of the stimulus by mailing $250 checks to its retirees.
Now, here are some claims about the stimulus:
# Today, Obama said the stimulus saved or created 2 million jobs. In January, the White House claimed the stimulus had saved or created 1.7 million to 2 million jobs. In October, the White House said the stimulus saved or created 640,000 jobs. One month before he signed the law last year, Obama said the stimulus would save or create 3 million to 4 million jobs. (I like to joke that, 10 years from now, we will find out that the $787 billion stimulus saved exactly one job. Or perhaps created it.)
The one thing we know: No one can say for sure how many jobs have been saved or created. Indeed, Republicans note that, over the past year, as unemployment has risen, 3 million jobs have been lost, despite the stimulus.
| 486 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:32:47am |
My new favorite quote for the day:
"A taxpayer may see that their tax bill was reduced as a result if they were able to take advantage of the tax credits, exemptions, or deductions. But that's not the same as a tax cut."
I just love watching people contort themselves into the most beautiful positions to attack an idea they have no reason to oppose, unless it was proposed by Barry Sotero.
| 487 |
badger1970 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:32:52am |
re: #478 lawhawk
$6.00 a pack and $4.50 and snuff tin was enough for me.
Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
Ronald Reagan
| 488 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:33:00am |
re: #475 thedopefishlives
My wife didn't understand why I was so incredibly excited for SC2. I had to explain to her the phenomenon that is Starcraft. I should go install Brood War on her computer and show her firsthand just how deep the awesome runs.
My husband doesn't understand any of my excited for games. He's not a gamer at all. When we met and decided to get married I warned him. "Now dear, your just going to have to understand that I'm a big geek when it comes to this sort of thing.'
He was pretty impressed though when I showed him Dragon Age. Some of the cut scenes are amazing. He said, 'okay I think I get it. See you in a week dear.'
| 489 |
lawhawk Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:33:30am |
re: #481 drcordell
I'll remind you of semantics when you bash Bush tax cuts from 2001 and 2003, which lowered the tax rates of all taxpayers, including those making less than $50,000 as well as those making more.
re: #480 Obdicut
And ignoring that tobacco hike when Obama repeatedly claimed that he wouldn't raise taxes on the "middle class" is similarly silly. Who do you think actually got hit the most with that tax hike? *hint* it wasn't the rich.
| 490 |
darthstar Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:33:57am |
re: #478 lawhawk
The Obama Administration did impose a tax hike across the board in the form of the SCHIP tobacco tax hike. It raised the tobacco taxes nationally to purportedly fund the SCHIP program. The cigarette tax increased 62 cents—bringing the total tax on a pack of cigarettes to $1.01; chewing tobacco tax increased from $0.195/lb. to $0.50/lb. and other tobacco taxes were hiked as well.
The goal was certainly laudable, but as I've pointed out repeatedly that with the increase in tobacco taxes, we've reached a point in many localities where revenues fall well short of projections because people have stopped smoking putting the very health programs funded by the tobacco taxes in jeopardy - increasing deficits in the process.
President Obama does his part, by having the occasional cigarette.
/
| 491 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:34:30am |
re: #484 SixDegrees
What tax cuts, specifically, are you referring to here?
The $287 billion worth of tax cuts included in the stimulus plan.
[Link: uk.reuters.com...]
Which, as it turns out is arguably the single largest tax cut in HISTORY. Which surprisingly attracted not a single GOP vote. Imagine that! All it takes is a black Democrat President and Republicans don't like tax cuts.
[Link: blog.beliefnet.com...]
| 492 |
Aye Pod Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:34:47am |
re: #474 PT Barnum
I understand your reaction, I'm just saying it's not terribly productive and doesn't improve the tone of this forum.
The people who enjoy being obnoxious need to be ignored and downdinged into submission in my opinion. Much more productive use of everyone's time.
It would be nice if people would direct their 'cool it' comments at those who instigate this shit instead of cracking jokes with them and then pleading for peace with those who react to it.
| 493 |
lawhawk Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:35:30am |
re: #486 drcordell
You can quote me all you want - but you'd be laughed out the door by any tax expert.
| 494 |
lawhawk Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:37:06am |
re: #491 drcordell
Ever think that the reason that the GOP didn't vote for the stimulus package was because of all the other crap included in with the tax items? Or do you want to ignore the massively fiscally irresponsible actions of the Democrat controlled Congress that pushed this on the taxpayers with no plan to pay for any of this?
| 496 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:37:47am |
re: #489 lawhawk
And ignoring that tobacco hike when Obama repeatedly claimed that he wouldn't raise taxes on the "middle class" is similarly silly. Who do you think actually got hit the most with that tax hike? *hint* it wasn't the rich.
I'd say the lower class got hit the most with that tax hike, actually. And no, a tax on a certain good is not a tax on the middle class. It's regressive, certainly, but it's not a tax on the middle class. You can be a member of the middle class and be totally unaffected by that tax.
You really, really look ridiculous when you one hand say that a reduction to someones tax bill isn't actually a tax cut but on the other hand a tax hike to a single good is a tax on the middle class.
The stimulus contained large amounts of tax cuts.
| 497 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:38:58am |
re: #485 njdhockeyfan
drcordell seems scared to death of Fox News so here is an article from the Washington Post February 17, 2010. Hopefully WaPo is not too right-wing for him.
Not really sure what exactly that article you linked proves. It's an opinion piece, in their voices blog, and the author provides nothing but assertions. There isn't a single fact on the entire page.
And that being said, the WaPo has turned into a fucking joke. Their editorial page reads like a phone directory of neocon hacks. George Will, Charles Krauthammer, Marc Thiessen, Michael Gerson. My what liberals!
| 498 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:39:57am |
re: #494 lawhawk
Ever think that the reason that the GOP didn't vote for the stimulus package was because of all the other crap included in with the tax items? Or do you want to ignore the massively fiscally irresponsible actions of the Democrat controlled Congress that pushed this on the taxpayers with no plan to pay for any of this?
I think the GOP wouldn't vote for a bill Obama proposed if he discovered a way to turn water into wine.
| 499 |
RogueOne Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:40:11am |
re: #457 Obdicut
It's is goddamn amazing to me that many people don't know that.
I've talked to a lot of people who think that the stimulus included a tax hike. What tax hike? They can't tell you.
Ugh.
People don't know it because it's only sorta true. There is a difference between a "tax break" and a "tax cut". The obama admin originally said there was $43 billion in tax relief, which Politifact found half true.
[Link: www.politifact.com...]
John stewart seems to be the source of the 1/3 of the stimulus is tax breaks quote which politifact found "mostly true" if you're willing to fudge the numbers and the meaning of the english language a bit.
Simple math shows that Stewart is in the ballpark with his claim: $288 billion is a little more than 36 percent of the bill's overall cost. So, tax cuts -- at least the way they've been defined by the Obama administration -- make up for slightly more than one-third of the bill.But calculating the cost of the true tax cuts in the stimulus is a bit more complicated. In July 2009, we checked Obama's claim that, at the time, the stimulus had delivered $43 billion in tax breaks. According to the Treasury Department, about $8 billion of that figure came from extending a fix to the Alternative Minimum Tax. Originally, the AMT was targeted at very wealthy people, but over the years it spread to include some middle-income taxpayers as well. Congress passes yearly fixes to prevent those middle income taxpayers from having to pay the AMT.
All told, the AMT fix in the stimulus will cost about $70 billion over 10 years, according to a bill summary published by the Senate Finance Committee. But many tax experts say the AMT fix should not be considered a tax cut. They say that, by extending the AMT fix every year, the government is basically maintaining the status quo.
[Link: www.politifact.com...]
| 500 |
njdhockeyfan Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:41:04am |
re: #497 drcordell
Not really sure what exactly that article you linked proves. It's an opinion piece, in their voices blog, and the author provides nothing but assertions. There isn't a single fact on the entire page.
And that being said, the WaPo has turned into a fucking joke. Their editorial page reads like a phone directory of neocon hacks. George Will, Charles Krauthammer, Marc Thiessen, Michael Gerson. My what liberals!
That atricle has links to back up every sentence in it.
What news organization do you trust since there seems to be something wrong with every one I linked to.
| 501 |
The Left Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:41:18am |
re: #477 Obdicut
I understand your reaction just fine. I think it's a perfectly natural reaction. I'm not saying that you're reaction in a way that's crazy.
I'm just saying, tactically, if what you want is less shit thrown at Ice, I think more ignoring would be better. It's also something that Charles has pretty clearly indicated that he prefers.
My fiancee doesn't partake in message boards like this because she would fucking tear people to pieces. She's got zero tolerance for people speaking on subjects that they're ignorant about, which, you know, tends to happen.
Anyway: I'm not saying it's wrong to get upset at the constant (and, frankly, creepy) negative attention that Ice gets, but that the emotionally satisfying reaction isn't necessarily the best one.
I'll shut up about it now.
Uhhuh. Your fiancee isn't here because she's just so much tougher than me. She'd 'tear people to pieces'. Yup.
And it's really silly to have an 'emotional' reaction to some fuckwitted douchebag recommending a 'forced vaginal exam'.
yeah. How female of me.
| 502 |
lawhawk Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:41:28am |
re: #498 drcordell
Except that they did - in funding the Iraq and Afghan operations at a time when Democrats were on the fence (and many didn't vote for it).
| 503 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:42:40am |
re: #494 lawhawk
Ever think that the reason that the GOP didn't vote for the stimulus package was because of all the other crap included in with the tax items? Or do you want to ignore the massively fiscally irresponsible actions of the Democrat controlled Congress that pushed this on the taxpayers with no plan to pay for any of this?
No plan to pay for any of this. Like the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest 1% of the nation enacted in 2001 and 2003? Or the Iraq War? Or Medicare Part D?
I'm not fucking stupid, and I didn't just fall off the turnip truck and forget the previous 8 years. Bush enacted nothing but fiscally irresponsible programs for the entire duration of his 2-term presidency, in a time of relative economic prosperity.
Obama comes into office faced with the single largest economic crisis ever faced by this nation. And enacts a one-time stimulus package to prevent even further catastrophic economic collapse. And now all of a sudden Republicans start clamoring about deficits. BULLSHIT.
| 504 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:43:03am |
| 505 |
RogueOne Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:43:11am |
Everytime I put out what I consider a decent post on the stimulus argument I find lawhawk not only beat me to it but phrased much better too. I'm starting to hate him//
| 506 |
SixDegrees Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:43:17am |
re: #491 drcordell
The $287 billion worth of tax cuts included in the stimulus plan.
[Link: uk.reuters.com...]
OK, thanks.
By the way, just as a tax planning point of interest that's been mentioned in the past but not recently: apparently, the withholding amounts for married couples weren't adjusted properly for the income tax credits mentioned here, so many couples will find that their withholdings have been inadequate over the course of most of 2009. It's hard to say yet what impact this will have on tax bills, but it's possible that many married couples could wind up owing taxes when they've received refunds in the past, or will see their refund noticeably reduced over those of the past. Too late now to do anything about it, but the advice over the course of the last year was to increase your withholdings in preparation for this error. I don't know how many people did. I guess we'll know more in a couple of months.
| 507 |
Hengineer Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:43:18am |
yay...finally on the good side of the "ditch" again!
We're in Augusta Bay, Sicily now...
I swear it was the worst deployment in 5th fleet ever. Djibouti, Djibouti, Djibouti...ugh Djibouti sucks
| 508 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:43:59am |
re: #500 njdhockeyfan
That atricle has links to back up every sentence in it.
What news organization do you trust since there seems to be something wrong with every one I linked to.
Think Progress. Kos. HuffPost.
| 509 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:44:22am |
re: #500 njdhockeyfan
That atricle has links to back up every sentence in it.
What news organization do you trust since there seems to be something wrong with every one I linked to.
I shouldn't have included that last bit in there attacking the WaPo. I have no problem with their news side, it's the editorial side of the WaPo that I believe has gone completely off the rails.
| 510 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:44:23am |
re: #488 Jadespring
My husband doesn't understand any of my excited for games. He's not a gamer at all. When we met and decided to get married I warned him. "Now dear, your just going to have to understand that I'm a big geek when it comes to this sort of thing.'
He was pretty impressed though when I showed him Dragon Age. Some of the cut scenes are amazing. He said, 'okay I think I get it. See you in a week dear.'
The Mrs. Fish was a light gamer when we met; she played some old-school stuff like Command & Conquer, or the Lord of the Rings series of PS games. Then I picked up a copy of The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion. Oops.
| 511 |
Olsonist Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:44:23am |
re: #489 lawhawk
I'll remind you of semantics when you bash Bush tax cuts from 2001 and 2003, which lowered the tax rates of all taxpayers, including those making less than $50,000 as well as those making more.
Don't use semantics. Use statistics. How much did those nice folks earning less than $50,000 get and how much did those hardworking titans making $250,000 and more get?
re: #480 Obdicut
And ignoring that tobacco hike when Obama repeatedly claimed that he wouldn't raise taxes on the "middle class" is similarly silly. Who do you think actually got hit the most with that tax hike? *hint* it wasn't the rich.
It was the smokers.
| 514 |
lawhawk Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:46:52am |
re: #503 drcordell
GOPers may have gone off the cliff of fiscal insanity during the Bush years, but I certainly didn't - I opposed the Part D as fiscally irresponsible, along with many of the spending increases.
The Bush tax cuts did get the economy going again after the 2000-2001 recession and 9/11 attacks. They put a whole lot more money in the pockets of everyone.
You can criticize the Iraq war all you want about being unnecessary, but I respectfully disagree (and that includes the cost). Moreover, the Bush tax cuts are all set to expire after 2010 - meaning that they will revert to the pre-2001 rates across the board if no action was taken. That means that all the Bush breaks for the rich will disappear unless Congress and the President take action. With the Democrats in charge, let's see what happens this year, shall we?
| 515 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:47:14am |
re: #511 Olsonist
Don't use semantics. Use statistics. How much did those nice folks earning less than $50,000 get and how much did those hardworking titans making $250,000 and more get?
Somehow I think those making $250,000 and up got just a BIT more out of those tax cuts than those making less than $50,000.
But the fact that the guy making $35k paid $500 less in taxes while the guy making $35m paid $500,000 less in taxes sounds nice and equivalent when you put it in a single sentence.
| 516 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:47:31am |
re: #496 Obdicut
I'd say the lower class got hit the most with that tax hike, actually. And no, a tax on a certain good is not a tax on the middle class. It's regressive, certainly, but it's not a tax on the middle class. You can be a member of the middle class and be totally unaffected by that tax.
You really, really look ridiculous when you one hand say that a reduction to someones tax bill isn't actually a tax cut but on the other hand a tax hike to a single good is a tax on the middle class.
The stimulus contained large amounts of tax cuts.
Lawhawk is correct - a reduction in any individual's tax obligation through tax credits, exemptions, or deductions the person qualifies to use is NOT the same thing as a reduction of the obligation through a cut in the tax rates, which affect everybody. It simply is not.
My opinion - it is important to be precise with our language in how we discuss things; otherwise, all sorts of confusion can occur.
| 517 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:47:35am |
re: #498 drcordell
I think the GOP wouldn't vote for a bill Obama proposed if he discovered a way to turn water into wine.
Didn't he do that already? Wedding party, as I recall.
| 518 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:48:37am |
| 519 |
windsagio Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:49:08am |
re: #518 Guanxi88
They're good hate-magnets, I'll grant you that ;)
| 521 |
ShaunP Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:49:49am |
re: #516 reine.de.tout
Lawhawk is correct - a reduction in any individual's tax obligation through tax credits, exemptions, or deductions the person qualifies to use is NOT the same thing as a reduction of the obligation through a cut in the tax rates, which affect everybody. It simply is not.
My opinion - it is important to be precise with our language in how we discuss things; otherwise, all sorts of confusion can occur.
I actually agree with that, but then don't turn around and call an increase in cigarette tax a tax hike...
| 522 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:50:04am |
re: #510 thedopefishlives
The Mrs. Fish was a light gamer when we met; she played some old-school stuff like Command & Conquer, or the Lord of the Rings series of PS games. Then I picked up a copy of The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion. Oops.
Yeah Oblivion is great. A real time sucker. I still haven't got some of the expansions though I downloaded a heck of a lot of player created mods which changed and added stuff to it. It's the same with Dragon Age. They have official addons but now that it's been out for a bit there's tons of player mods coming out. I like how you can fiddle with the game and really make it your own.
| 523 |
Olsonist Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:50:27am |
re: #515 drcordell
It's worse than that. Bush created a huge debt and the burden of servicing that debt falls unequally. It's almost as if Grover Norquist designed it that way. Wait, he did.
| 524 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:50:36am |
re: #516 reine.de.tout
Lawhawk is correct - a reduction in any individual's tax obligation through tax credits, exemptions, or deductions the person qualifies to use is NOT the same thing as a reduction of the obligation through a cut in the tax rates, which affect everybody. It simply is not.
My opinion - it is important to be precise with our language in how we discuss things; otherwise, all sorts of confusion can occur.
Look. The whole point of arguing semantics is to obfuscate the meaning of what is being discussed, even if you are technically correct.
In plain english to the average American, lowering taxes = cutting taxes. Whether it's a credit, or a rate cut or whatever.
| 525 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:50:37am |
re: #519 windsagio
They're good hate-magnets, I'll grant you that ;)
Everybody needs at least one. Without a clear focus, hatred becomes this sorta free-floating rage kinda deal.
I;d much rather folk railed against KOS and/or FNC than just went around without a specific target.
| 526 |
Hengineer Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:51:11am |
re: #522 Jadespring
Yeah Oblivion is great. A real time sucker. I still haven't got some of the expansions though I downloaded a heck of a lot of player created mods which changed and added stuff to it. It's the same with Dragon Age. They have official addons but now that it's been out for a bit there's tons of player mods coming out. I like how you can fiddle with the game and really make it your own.
-snicker-
I'm still working on Far Cry 2, waiting for Starcraft II to come out. I love EVERY single Total War game that came out. I am currently in the middle of playing a realistic modification of Rome: Total War called Europa Barbararoum. Its awesome.
| 527 |
lawhawk Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:51:34am |
re: #515 drcordell
Ah, so the guy who made $35k and got an extra $500 as you put it should be angry because they didn't get more?
* a new 10% bracket was created for single filers with taxable income up to $6,000, joint filers up to $12,000, and heads of households up to $10,000.
* the 15% bracket's lower threshold was indexed to the new 10% bracket
* the 28% bracket would be lowered to 25% by 2006.
* the 31% bracket would be lowered to 28% by 2006
* the 36% bracket would be lowered to 33% by 2006
* the 39.6% bracket would be lowered to 35% by 2006
The person in the 15% bracket saw their tax rate decrease by 33% - a proportionally higher amount than someone in the highest tax bracket.
re: #521 ShaunP
The cigarette tax was a tax hike - the rate was increased.
| 528 |
suchislife Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:52:04am |
re: #477 Obdicut
The thing is, I started out thinking that the two of them pushing back is partly why it has become so bad (although like you, I didn't fault them for it), but couldn't it also be that the fact that they get very little outspoken support makes them seem vulnerable, and then that is why the attacks are so virulent and constant?
Frankly the whole dynamic reminds me of the way lefties tend to denounce their activists at the drop of a hat, because they aspire to be thought of as moderate and reasonable, whereas righties tend to stick to theirs like glue, because, like Colbert says, pick a side, we're at war!
| 529 |
windsagio Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:52:16am |
re: #525 Guanxi88
hah fair enough; it does simplify the arguments :p
Maybe I missed it, anybody talk about the salary witholdings yet?
| 530 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:52:24am |
re: #525 Guanxi88
Everybody needs at least one. Without a clear focus, hatred becomes this sorta free-floating rage kinda deal.
I;d much rather folk railed against KOS and/or FNC than just went around without a specific target.
Kos is by definition intended to be a bastion of leftist opinion. Fox News is a right-wing propaganda outlet masquerading as a legitimate source of news.
| 531 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:52:50am |
re: #524 drcordell
Look. The whole point of arguing semantics is to obfuscate the meaning of what is being discussed, even if you are technically correct.
In plain english to the average American, lowering taxes = cutting taxes. Whether it's a credit, or a rate cut or whatever.
You are correct, with the "in plain English to the average American" part.
Which is why the average American gets so confused - they are sloppy in their use of language and in making themselves clear.
| 532 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:52:53am |
re: #530 drcordell
Kos is by definition intended to be a bastion of leftist opinion. Fox News is a right-wing propaganda outlet masquerading as a legitimate source of news.
You've found your hate-magnet, then? Excellent.
| 533 |
Hengineer Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:53:54am |
I saw Kos himself interviewed by Keith Olbermann about something...I was like "And Keith considers himself pretty objective?
| 534 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:54:02am |
re: #529 windsagio
hah fair enough; it does simplify the arguments :p
Maybe I missed it, anybody talk about the salary witholdings yet?
Haven't seen that brought up yet. Me? I look at it as the REAL problem at work here, irrespective of rates and such.
Average Joe don't need anything pulled outta his weekly pay envelope, even if he gets it all back the following year. Interest-free loan to Uncle Sam.
| 535 |
darthstar Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:54:13am |
re: #513 drcordell
Those are blogs. Not news organizations.
True...thinkprogress, dKos, and Huffington Post are all blogs, but the front page stories (at least at thinkprogress and dKos) are usually well sourced and accurate. Now, some of the member diaries get a little out there, but the community is pretty good about dealing with that when it happens.
It is interesting how people are beginning to trust new media more than television/newspapers. It's also easy to mislead people (see Drudge).
| 536 |
windsagio Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:54:23am |
re: #527 lawhawk
Proportionality doesn't really fit into this, imo.
| 537 |
cliffster Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:54:33am |
If I make $250K and pay 30% taxes, then I will pay more than someone making $50K and paying 30% taxes. No one complains about that, in fact, al lot even argue that the $250K person should pay even higher percentage. But now it's time to cut taxes, and those same people will bitch and moan about the richer person getting more benefit. Yes, people, 10% of $250K is higher than 10% of $50K. It's called math.
| 538 |
suchislife Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:54:50am |
re: #528 suchislife
Of course, the lefty/righty comment is not meant to imply that either behavior exists only on one side.
| 539 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:54:57am |
re: #507 Hengineer
yay...finally on the good side of the "ditch" again!
We're in Augusta Bay, Sicily now...
I swear it was the worst deployment in 5th fleet ever. Djibouti, Djibouti, Djibouti...ugh Djibouti sucks
Welcome "back"!
| 541 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:55:19am |
re: #535 darthstar
True...thinkprogress, dKos, and Huffington Post are all blogs, but the front page stories (at least at thinkprogress and dKos) are usually well sourced and accurate. Now, some of the member diaries get a little out there, but the community is pretty good about dealing with that when it happens.
It is interesting how people are beginning to trust new media more than television/newspapers. It's also easy to mislead people (see Drudge).
That tricksy Drudge! So cunning in his manipulation of the masses.
He doesn't write anything, does he?
| 542 |
Hengineer Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:55:50am |
re: #539 sattv4u2
Welcome "back"!
haha thanks, internet on the ship is so slow I can't even load LGF, so im getting my fix again! lol
the ditch = The Suez Canal
| 544 |
windsagio Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:56:20am |
re: #534 Guanxi88
Its also a largely 'invisible' income tax that people making real money don't really pay (meaningfully anyways, it caps early and doesn't effect capitol gains at all).
| 546 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:56:51am |
re: #544 windsagio
Its also a largely 'invisible' income tax that people making real money don't really pay (meaningfully anyways, it caps early and doesn't effect capitol gains at all).
It's a nasty little trick, I tell you what.
| 548 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:57:28am |
re: #501 iceweasel
No, because she doesn't have enough self control, and would get herself banned, or just be too angry to stay. That was what I meant.
You seem determined to interpret everything I'm saying in the worst possible way today, so I'm going to stop talking to you for awhile.
| 549 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:58:07am |
re: #526 Hengineer
-snicker-
I'm still working on Far Cry 2, waiting for Starcraft II to come out. I love EVERY single Total War game that came out. I am currently in the middle of playing a realistic modification of Rome: Total War called Europa Barbararoum. Its awesome.
Never played Total War but they do look good. I find I have to be really careful and just choose one or two games at a time and not let myself get a new one till they're really played out. If not I don't get anything done. :)
I probably will get Starcraft II when it comes out. I haven't played Starcraft a whole lot. My cousin had it and I played a bit when I visited.
| 550 |
windsagio Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:58:14am |
re: #492 Jimmah
It would be nice if people would direct their 'cool it' comments at those who instigate this shit instead of cracking jokes with them and then pleading for peace with those who react to it.
heh I missed this.
Quoted because it bears repeating.
| 553 |
Soap_Man Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:59:26am |
Morning all.
It seems the actress who voiced the Down Syndrome character on Family Guy—an actress who actually has Down Syndrome—thinks Sarah Palin needs to get herself a sense of humor.
| 555 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:59:45am |
re: #544 windsagio
Its also a largely 'invisible' income tax that people making real money don't really pay (meaningfully anyways, it caps early and doesn't effect capitol gains at all).
re: #546 Guanxi88
It's a nasty little trick, I tell you what.
And let me add, in case there's any confusion here:
Left and Right don't mean a damned thing more to most folks than Cowboys vs. Steelers. No party has a lock on the interests of the public, in large measure because neither side truly gives a damn about the very people they claim to love and champion.
| 556 |
SixDegrees Fri, Feb 19, 2010 7:59:51am |
re: #515 drcordell
Somehow I think those making $250,000 and up got just a BIT more out of those tax cuts than those making less than $50,000.
But the fact that the guy making $35k paid $500 less in taxes while the guy making $35m paid $500,000 less in taxes sounds nice and equivalent when you put it in a single sentence.
It seems to be exactly equivalent - the percentages work out to be exactly the same.
Given the way bracketing and the standard deduction work, however, it isn't quite that simple. For the guy making $35k, the difference represents a larger percentage of his taxable income than it does for the guy making $35m.
| 557 |
windsagio Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:00:45am |
re: #555 Guanxi88
I wouildn't say they don't give a damn, its more that (especially in the internet environment) its so much more about smashing the opponent across the screen that you forget whats really going on.
| 558 |
Hengineer Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:01:16am |
re: #549 Jadespring
Never played Total War but they do look good. I find I have to be really careful and just choose one or two games at a time and not let myself get a new one till they're really played out. If not I don't get anything done. :)
I probably will get Starcraft II when it comes out. I haven't played Starcraft a whole lot. My cousin had it and I played a bit when I visited.
well any of the 3d Total War games have TONS of replayability, especially if you download mods. Europa Barbararoum has so much history added to the game its awesome, they use faction specific historical names: Carthage has been renamed to "Safot Softim BiQarthadast", for example. I can't wait to purchase Napoleon: Total War, the expansion to Empire: Total War (1700's to 1800's). Empire Total War was a total revamping of battle tactics. Tactics when you're line infantry fires muskets instead of swinging swords is radically different.
| 559 |
Olsonist Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:01:40am |
| 560 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:01:47am |
re: #557 windsagio
I wouildn't say they don't give a damn, its more that (especially in the internet environment) its so much more about smashing the opponent across the screen that you forget whats really going on.
Oh no, I was talking about the leadership and the representation and such; about the only place you find any genuine concern is on the inter-tubes and in similar voluntary organizations.
| 561 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:01:53am |
re: #522 Jadespring
Yeah Oblivion is great. A real time sucker. I still haven't got some of the expansions though I downloaded a heck of a lot of player created mods which changed and added stuff to it. It's the same with Dragon Age. They have official addons but now that it's been out for a bit there's tons of player mods coming out. I like how you can fiddle with the game and really make it your own.
It's a bit of a study in player psychology, how they like to set up their display and how they like to tweak the game. From godmodes to nude hacks, it's a really crazy world out there.
| 562 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:02:11am |
| 563 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:02:16am |
re: #558 Hengineer
Also DarthMod rules. Doesn't matter with Total War you're talking about, try out DarthMod.
| 566 |
windsagio Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:02:46am |
| 567 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:02:54am |
re: #555 Guanxi88
And let me add, in case there's any confusion here:
Left and Right don't mean a damned thing more to most folks than Cowboys vs. Steelers. No party has a lock on the interests of the public, in large measure because neither side truly gives a damn about the very people they claim to love and champion.
whoa nellie...Cowboys/Steelers mean alot to me...t6he first game the Cowboys ever played was vs the Steelers...and the first Cowboy franchise victory, the next year was vs the Steelers....some trivia
| 568 |
lawhawk Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:03:11am |
drcordell:
Here's where semantics will get a whole lot of people into trouble. One of the tax cuts as you put it was an adjustment in withholding that meant that paychecks were bigger for millions of Americans. (More money in paycheck - tax cut?)
Not exactly. A good number of those people will end up paying more at tax time because they didn't withhold enough. So, does that mean it's a tax hike? Nope.
Then, there's the making work pay credit and how it was supposed to be reduced by an "Economic Recovery Payment" sent to Social Security recipients and veterans on disability. Many Seniors didn't do that - so their returns got bounced because they didn't properly figure the tax obligation (missing $250 - and the SSA didn't send out any notification of how to include that money on tax returns).
That's why I keep using the proper terminology.
| 569 |
cliffster Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:03:18am |
| 570 |
Daniel Ballard Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:03:30am |
re: #556 SixDegrees
I have watched and gotten into a bunch of these tax revenue debates. I have seen all the charts I wanted at CBO and Heritage. As we get to incomes that get to a place where a rich person becomes an employer, all the conventional "raise the tax rate" arguments begin to fail.
What I have not been able to find in reliable numbers is how high might that income number be and how to sort entrepreneurs and small biz sole proprietorship people from the "idle" rich, who either keep their money in investments or financial instruments or stocks. As I see it at that point the "rich" become the "employers", and should have tax incentives to get this unemployment rate down. Get 10 million fully employed and revenues take care of themselves via the existing tax tables.
Until I can sort that out I can't hardly evaluate my own opinion, let alone the usual conservative/progressive approaches.
| 571 |
Hengineer Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:03:40am |
re: #559 Olsonist
Moulitsas has described the Army as "perhaps the ideal society – we worked hard but the Army took care of us in return."
Ah, he was institutionalized! We have those same people working with MSC. Ex-Navy people who get excited when we pull into Sicily, not because we're in Sicily, but because they can "go to the Navy Exchange!"
| 572 |
windsagio Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:03:44am |
re: #567 albusteve
That must be why we can't get along. I've always loathed the Cowboys.
Maybe now that we understand our differences, we can approach some kind of peace ;)
| 573 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:03:56am |
re: #564 windsagio
I try not to be that cynical :p
Cynicism and the certain knowledge that we are unable to track all Earth-crossing asteroids, plus the occasional adult beverage and pipe of tobacco, are all that keep me from screaming most days.
| 574 |
Hengineer Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:04:13am |
re: #563 Obdicut
Also DarthMod rules. Doesn't matter with Total War you're talking about, try out DarthMod.
I saw those on the totalwar.org forums, what IS darthmod?
| 575 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:04:39am |
re: #565 cliffster
Tiger's talking as we speak. *golf clap*
See a doctor, get some penicillin, and it'll clear up.
| 576 |
windsagio Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:05:04am |
re: #573 Guanxi88
I like to pretend we're not doomed :p It involves alot of covering your ears and yelling, but the occasional moments of blissful ignorance make it all worth while!
| 577 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:05:10am |
re: #542 Hengineer
haha thanks, internet on the ship is so slow I can't even load LGF, so im getting my fix again! lol
the ditch = The Suez Canal
Was amazed how wide the canal is when I saw it. When one hears 'canal" we provincially thin k of some of the ones here in the states. Never have been to the Panama one. Imagine it's similar
| 579 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:05:29am |
re: #576 windsagio
I like to pretend we're not doomed :p It involves alot of covering your ears and yelling, but the occasional moments of blissful ignorance make it all worth while!
That's why I got my booze and my pipe.
| 580 |
RogueOne Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:05:34am |
BoingBoing discussion about a very serious pet peeve of mine, not being able to sit down and watch a damned DVD without being forced to watch trailers/warnings/crappy studio effects:
[Link: www.boingboing.net...]
With neat-o graphic of discussion:
Image: GxzeV.jpg
I do the same with any new DVD I get, rip it, take out all the stupid crap, and then watch.
| 581 |
windsagio Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:06:26am |
re: #580 RogueOne
Thats why I buy grey-market chinese editions whenever they can. They're (probably) legal, they're way cheaper, and no stupid ass trailers!
| 582 |
Olsonist Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:06:30am |
re: #571 Hengineer
Yeah, I know. When my cuz got discharged he couldn't speak English. He spoke Navy. It took him a couple of years to shake it. Another buddy who went to West Point still has nightmares from. (both lefties BTW)
| 583 |
Hengineer Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:06:32am |
re: #577 sattv4u2
Was amazed how wide the canal is when I saw it. When one hears 'canal" we provincially thin k of some of the ones here in the states. Never have been to the Panama one. Imagine it's similar
Kinda. It allows for traffic in both directions. I've been through the Panama Canal, but it was a night crossing while I was on the USNS Zeus. The locks going up and down in elevation were neat but its been widened enough for some fairly large ships. I don't think Supertankers or carriers can go through yet, though.
| 584 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:07:10am |
re: #574 Hengineer
What isn't it? Heh.
Basically, his main strength is in tweaking the various unit reaction settings, as well as their weapons/strength etc., to make the AI behave better. For empire, for example, he increased the range of musketry but decreased effective range-- you can fire at enemies farther away, but your shot has less effect. This is at once realistic, and makes for more exciting battles because there's an actual point to conserving your fire until you see the whites of their eyes.
In addition, he's such a nice guy and so easy to work with that other modders work with him to get their mods included with his. So his ultimate commander mod for Empire contains tons and tons of other little detail mods that make things so much better.
In the end, DathMod battles are a lot more challenging, and a lot more fun, than in vanilla.
| 585 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:07:27am |
re: #583 Hengineer
Kinda. It allows for traffic in both directions. I've been through the Panama Canal, but it was a night crossing while I was on the USNS Zeus. The locks going up and down in elevation were neat but its been widened enough for some fairly large ships. I don't think Supertankers or carriers can go through yet, though.
Carriers are built to Panamax specifications. Some supertankers these days are unable to go through.
| 586 |
Hengineer Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:07:40am |
re: #582 Olsonist
Yeah, I know. When my cuz got discharged he couldn't speak English. He spoke Navy. It took him a couple of years to shake it. Another buddy who went to West Point still has nightmares from. (both lefties BTW)
I keep having to tell my girlfriend (who is IN the Navy) to stop using acronyms with me as if I know what the hell she's talking about.
| 587 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:07:42am |
| 588 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:08:25am |
re: #558 Hengineer
well any of the 3d Total War games have TONS of replayability, especially if you download mods. Europa Barbararoum has so much history added to the game its awesome, they use faction specific historical names: Carthage has been renamed to "Safot Softim BiQarthadast", for example. I can't wait to purchase Napoleon: Total War, the expansion to Empire: Total War (1700's to 1800's). Empire Total War was a total revamping of battle tactics. Tactics when you're line infantry fires muskets instead of swinging swords is radically different.
Knowing that there's lots of mods makes me more interested in it now. I didn't know that. While I appreciate games like Bioshock once they're played through once or twice that's pretty much it. It sounds like it's similar to the mods available for Dragon Age and Oblivion. You can change tactics and tweek it here and there and get a different experience plus just add on entire new scenarios. I also just generally think it's amazing how much time and detail people put into them for basically nothing except for love of the game. Sounds like Total War has the same sort of player base.
Cool!
| 590 |
RogueOne Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:08:52am |
re: #579 Guanxi88
That's why I got my booze and my pipe.
I think that means "you've got your hellyeah!"
| 591 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:08:58am |
re: #587 MandyManners
[Video]
Hey, did you get a chance to peek at some of those WV ghost-towns yesterday?
My wife still can't believe there are that many abandoned towns EAST of the Mississippi.
| 592 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:09:05am |
| 593 |
njdhockeyfan Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:09:17am |
Mitt Romney's Alleged Attacker -- Major Rap Star
The mystery man who was tossed off an airplane for allegedly attacking Mitt Romney has finally been revealed -- it was one of the guys from LMFAO ... and he claims Romney is the one who got physical first!
| 594 |
deadletterboy Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:09:53am |
I do know I link to my friend Dave's blog a lot, but this is too good to pass up.
| 595 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:10:01am |
re: #593 njdhockeyfan
A rap group named after an internet acronym?
Okay. Rap is officially no longer cool.
| 596 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:10:02am |
| 597 |
Hengineer Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:10:19am |
re: #584 Obdicut
What isn't it? Heh.
Basically, his main strength is in tweaking the various unit reaction settings, as well as their weapons/strength etc., to make the AI behave better. For empire, for example, he increased the range of musketry but decreased effective range-- you can fire at enemies farther away, but your shot has less effect. This is at once realistic, and makes for more exciting battles because there's an actual point to conserving your fire until you see the whites of their eyes.
In addition, he's such a nice guy and so easy to work with that other modders work with him to get their mods included with his. So his ultimate commander mod for Empire contains tons and tons of other little detail mods that make things so much better.
In the end, DathMod battles are a lot more challenging, and a lot more fun, than in vanilla.
Cool. So far the only mods I've downloaded are for Rome: Total War. Roma Surrectum was ok, I tried it but couldn't get into it. Europa Barbararoum is AMAZING. They put so much time and effort into it to get the languages down, the factions in I love playing it. Invasio Barbararoum:Flagellum Dei for the Barbarian Invasion expansion to R:TW is awesome, too. It adds so much depth without being as large and complicated as EB is.
| 598 |
Olsonist Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:10:36am |
re: #595 Obdicut
A rap group named after an internet acronym?
Okay. Rap is officially no longer cool.
Rap is warming?
| 599 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:10:49am |
re: #592 Obdicut
DarthMod!
[Link: www.twcenter.net...]
It is pointless to resist.
Well it's easy right now because I don't have the vanilla game! :D
| 600 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:10:57am |
re: #595 Obdicut
A rap group named after an internet acronym?
Okay. Rap is officially no longer cool.
It all went downhill after the Rapping Duke.
Da-ha, da-ha!
| 601 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:11:02am |
re: #595 Obdicut
A rap group named after an internet acronym?
Okay. Rap is officially no longer cool.
Rap was cool at some point?
| 602 |
lawhawk Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:11:02am |
re: #583 Hengineer
Panamax ships are those that are the maximum size of ships allowable through the Panama Canal lock system. It's currently being upgraded with a new set of locks that will allow substantially larger ships to cross and will be more efficient in use of water.
| 603 |
Hengineer Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:11:13am |
re: #585 thedopefishlives
Carriers are built to Panamax specifications. Some supertankers these days are unable to go through.
Not really, the USS Ronald Reagan had to go south through the Strait of Magellan because she couldn't go through the Canal.
| 605 |
njdhockeyfan Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:13:07am |
Sestak says federal job was offered to quit race
Not so, says the White House
Rep. Joe Sestak (D., Pa.) said yesterday that the White House offered him a federal job in an effort to dissuade him from challenging Sen. Arlen Specter in the state's Democratic primary.
The disclosure came during an afternoon taping of Larry Kane: Voice of Reason, a Sunday news-analysis show on the Comcast Network. Sestak would not elaborate on the circumstances and seemed chagrined after blurting out "yes" to veteran news anchor Kane's direct question.
"Was it secretary of the Navy?" Kane asked.
"No comment," Sestak said.
"Was it [the job] high-ranking?" Kane asked. Sestak said yes, but added that he would "never leave" the Senate race for a deal.
A White House spokesman this morning strongly denied an offer had been made to Sestak. Before the spokesman issued the denial, a senior Pennsylvania Democrat said Sestak's account was met with anger by White House officials yesterday.
After yesterday's taping, Sestak said he recalled the White House offer coming in July, as he was preparing to formally announce his Senate candidacy in August. He declined to identify who spoke to him or the job under discussion. Sestak also would not say whether the person who approached him worked for the administration or was an intermediary for the offer.
"I'm not going to say who or how and what was offered," Sestak said in an interview. "I don't feel it's appropriate to go beyond what I said," because the conversation was confidential.
| 606 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:13:22am |
re: #597 Hengineer
Yeah. Darth does a great job of including the historical mods, which aren't his weakness, and revising the AI enormously. It's actually creepy how much more a Darthmod enemy army seems to be 'thinking' about how to attack you.
In MW2, I used the (predictable) tactic of pinning with spearmen at the front, using swordsmen or whatever other melee at the immediate flanks, and flanking around with cavalry to hit from the rear. Classic, but it works, right?
The first time I installed MW2, the Darthmod army used exactly that tactic on me, and whooped my ass. It was great.
| 607 |
MrSilverDragon Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:13:37am |
re: #601 thedopefishlives
Rap was cool at some point?
I always liked "Black Sunday" by Cypress Hill. Some Run DMC too. So, yes, for about 10 minutes, it was.
| 608 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:13:52am |
| 609 |
Hengineer Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:13:53am |
re: #599 Jadespring
Well it's easy right now because I don't have the vanilla game! :D
haha, R:TW Gold Edition is usually available at any store still. I'm surprised because of how old it is. R:TW Gold Edition contains both Rome: Total War and Rome:Total War Barbarian Invasion Expansion patched to version 1.2? I remember still having to patch it once more to ver 1.6 before I could get the latest versions of some of the mods to work.
| 610 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:14:06am |
| 611 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:14:09am |
re: #599 Jadespring
He has mods for all the other ones as well. Seek them out. They rule.
| 612 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:14:51am |
re: #591 Guanxi88
Hey, did you get a chance to peek at some of those WV ghost-towns yesterday?
My wife still can't believe there are that many abandoned towns EAST of the Mississippi.
No, I didn't. I got lost in the mountains and the next thing I knew I had to go get The Kid.
| 613 |
lawhawk Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:15:04am |
Heh Alert. Hamas says Fatah involved in Dubai assassination plot.
Hamas claimed Friday that two ex-officers from the rival Fatah organization were involved in the assassination of a Hamas operative in Dubai, and Fatah shot back by insinuating Hamas members were the ones who collaborated with the killers.The slaying of Mahmoud al-Mabhouh in a luxury Dubai hotel room last month has widely been blamed on Israel's Mossad spy agency but it also has sparked bitter recriminations among the rival Palestinian factions, which have long competed for influence in the Palestinian territories.
Dubai police unveiled 11 suspects - 10 men and one woman - who apparently traveled to Dubai on European passports with real names and authentic data, but possibly altered photos.
Dubai also said police had two Palestinians in custody for alleged involvement in the murder of al-Mabhouh, whose body was found on Jan. 20. The two were arrested in Jordan shortly after the killing, then sent back to Dubai.
A Hamas Web site, the Palestine Information Center, said those two men were former Fatah security officers and current employees of a senior Fatah official, who was not identified. Dubai authorities have not identified the two Palestinians and would not comment Friday.
| 614 |
Hengineer Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:15:50am |
re: #606 Obdicut
Yeah. Darth does a great job of including the historical mods, which aren't his weakness, and revising the AI enormously. It's actually creepy how much more a Darthmod enemy army seems to be 'thinking' about how to attack you.
In MW2, I used the (predictable) tactic of pinning with spearmen at the front, using swordsmen or whatever other melee at the immediate flanks, and flanking around with cavalry to hit from the rear. Classic, but it works, right?
The first time I installed MW2, the Darthmod army used exactly that tactic on me, and whooped my ass. It was great.
Sounds cool. My usual beef with enemy AI happens during sieges. Especially when I "sally forth" during a siege I can usually stick archers or Crossbowmen on the walls and just shoot them to death (at least in R:TW).
The AI in R:TW wasn't exactly that great.
| 615 |
njdhockeyfan Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:15:51am |
Fatah members linked with assassination of Hamas commander in Dubai
Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian leader, is facing accusations of collusion with Israel after two former members of his Fatah faction were linked to the assassination of a Hamas commander in Dubai last month.
| 617 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:16:27am |
re: #561 thedopefishlives
It's a bit of a study in player psychology, how they like to set up their display and how they like to tweak the game. From godmodes to nude hacks, it's a really crazy world out there.
I've noticed that the nude hacks seem to be the more popular ones. It's hilarious and cracks me up though getting into the psychological part of it might get a little strange. But hey if people really want to play the game with entirely nude characters then all the power too them.
| 618 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:16:41am |
re: #612 MandyManners
No, I didn't. I got lost in the mountains and the next thing I knew I had to go get The Kid.
Lost in the mountains? At this time of year?
Lady, you're lucky you made it out alive!
| 619 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:16:53am |
re: #606 Obdicut
I've often been disappointed by how little originality the game programmers in the industry have when developing their AIs. Most of the time, their idea of "hard" AI is "Give it a massive building advantage and use more brute force." Very rarely do you see games programmed with smart AIs that adapt to player tactics. Not that it's easy to do; I've done a bit of artificial intelligence programming. But it's certainly doable.
| 620 |
Hengineer Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:16:56am |
re: #606 Obdicut
Yeah. Darth does a great job of including the historical mods, which aren't his weakness, and revising the AI enormously. It's actually creepy how much more a Darthmod enemy army seems to be 'thinking' about how to attack you.
In MW2, I used the (predictable) tactic of pinning with spearmen at the front, using swordsmen or whatever other melee at the immediate flanks, and flanking around with cavalry to hit from the rear. Classic, but it works, right?
The first time I installed MW2, the Darthmod army used exactly that tactic on me, and whooped my ass. It was great.
I love all the Italian factions plus Hungary for Pavise Crossbowmen Militia!
I could take on Mongolian armies in the field due to them!
| 621 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:17:17am |
re: #613 lawhawk
Heh Alert. Hamas says Fatah involved in Dubai assassination plot.
re: #615 njdhockeyfan
Fatah members linked with assassination of Hamas commander in Dubai
Red-on-Red; excellent, boys. Faster, please.
| 622 |
Daniel Ballard Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:18:08am |
re: #621 Guanxi88
After a couple really tough years it seems western intelligence agencies are getting some breaks. Finally!
| 623 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:18:20am |
| 624 |
Hengineer Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:19:07am |
re: #617 Jadespring
I've noticed that the nude hacks seem to be the more popular ones. It's hilarious and cracks me up though getting into the psychological part of it might get a little strange. But hey if people really want to play the game with entirely nude characters then all the power too them.
Actually the Europa Barbararoum mod for R:TW has totally nude male "Naked Fanatic" warriors for the Celtic-style factions (Germans, Gauls, Iberians), whereas the vanilla had them wear loincloths or breeches. You could change the models if you want them to have modesty, though. They just made the game more realistic.
| 625 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:19:22am |
re: #608 MandyManners
[Video]
Evil? Of course not. Expected to pay their share? Yes please. IMHO at the end of the day the wealthiest Americans should support the existence of a healthy lower-class in America.
First and foremost, they are the ones who are taking all of the service jobs that make your life nice and convenient. A happy starbucks barista benefits everyone! And second, they are the ones who are spending all of their income purchasing products from the companies the wealthiest Americans own. A happy lower class is a lower class with disposable income to spend at their favorite stores.
A rising tide lifts all boats. And as the Clinton Presidency shows, it also lifts the biggest boats the highest.
| 626 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:19:38am |
This attitude may upset the men and women who cover Obama, but it's part of a larger strategy to greatly expand the president's options for communicating with the public. Actually, Obama isn't shielding himself from scrutiny; he is subjecting himself to more questions in a variety of ways, not just from the "mainstream media," to keep him in greater contact with the world outside the White House.
yup, I get it...2+2=5
[Link: www.usnews.com...]
| 627 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:19:53am |
re: #620 Hengineer
Oh man, those bastard Mongols. I normally made sure to get Switzerland so I could get armored pikes and halberdiers on my side, and then just masses of archers and artillery to break their morale. But pavse is a good idea; I'll have to try that sometime.
| 628 |
cliffster Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:20:25am |
hehe RT @OhioAgent: Did Tiger Woods just say he was a "Buddhist" or "Bootyist"?
| 629 |
njdhockeyfan Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:20:25am |
Swiss prostitutes trained to use defibrillators in brothels to prevent clients dying
Brothel owners in the Lugano area say electric shock treatment to restart customer's hearts is needed because so many elderly customers are using their services.
The most recent victim was a pensioner, thought to be having fun with the help of anti-impotence medication.
His death followed a series of other incidents, some fatal, in which heart attacks have claimed brothel customers in the area.
The owner of one sex club said: "Having customers die on us isn't exactly good publicity".
| 630 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:20:31am |
re: #625 drcordell
Evil? Of course not. Expected to pay their share? Yes please. IMHO at the end of the day the wealthiest Americans should support the existence of a healthy lower-class in America.
I've been staying out of it so far, but I think this sums you up pretty nicely. No offense, but if I want to be generous and support the poor, it should be my choice, not foisted on me because someone else thinks it's my obligation to do so.
| 631 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:20:40am |
re: #609 Hengineer
haha, R:TW Gold Edition is usually available at any store still. I'm surprised because of how old it is. R:TW Gold Edition contains both Rome: Total War and Rome:Total War Barbarian Invasion Expansion patched to version 1.2? I remember still having to patch it once more to ver 1.6 before I could get the latest versions of some of the mods to work.
I've seen the gold edition at Best Buy. Maybe the next time I'm near one I'll check it out. It's always great to get to know a bit about a game from actual players. I hate spending money on a game that ends up not being what I personally like. I think you're selling me on this one though. Just knowing that I'm not going to be stuck with vanilla is a big selling point.
| 632 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:21:31am |
re: #626 albusteve
This attitude may upset the men and women who cover Obama, but it's part of a larger strategy to greatly expand the president's options for communicating with the public. Actually, Obama isn't shielding himself from scrutiny; he is subjecting himself to more questions in a variety of ways, not just from the "mainstream media," to keep him in greater contact with the world outside the White House.
yup, I get it...2+2=5
[Link: www.usnews.com...]
Honestly I have to agree with Obama on this one. The White House Press Corps has turned into a joke. They have the attention span of a pack of kindergarteners that got into a case of Red Bull. Remember when Obama called his press conference to talk about health care reform? We ended up talking about goddamn Henry Gates for the next two weeks.
| 633 |
Hengineer Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:21:38am |
re: #627 Obdicut
Oh man, those bastard Mongols. I normally made sure to get Switzerland so I could get armored pikes and halberdiers on my side, and then just masses of archers and artillery to break their morale. But pavse is a good idea; I'll have to try that sometime.
I usually used Pavise Crossbowmen in a checkerboard formation like the romans used. I lost a few to lancer charges, but I could clean their clocks because they would usually try to out-arch me with their horse archers. They can't beat the Crossbow punch, especially with that huge Pavise shield on their back.
| 635 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:22:12am |
re: #622 Rightwingconspirator
After a couple really tough years it seems western intelligence agencies are getting some breaks. Finally!
Hey, if HAMAS and Fatah want to hash out their disagreements as we saw in the Dubai case, I've got no problem with it at all, and would congratulate and thank them for their professionalism and solicitous care for those other than the intended target.
| 636 |
cliffster Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:23:44am |
re: #629 njdhockeyfan
I don't know. If I heard people were dying in bed with these girls, I'd have to wonder what kind of stuff those girls we're doing. If you're young, got a good ticker, might as well find out..
| 637 |
Hengineer Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:23:51am |
re: #631 Jadespring
I've seen the gold edition at Best Buy. Maybe the next time I'm near one I'll check it out. It's always great to get to know a bit about a game from actual players. I hate spending money on a game that ends up not being what I personally like. I think you're selling me on this one though. Just knowing that I'm not going to be stuck with vanilla is a big selling point.
Don't get me wrong, even the vanilla Rome: Total War is awesome. After playing Microsoft and Ensemble's "Age of Empires", Rome Total war was just breathtaking. The Total War series has a large turn-based campaign map, but you can either autoresolve the battles, or actually play them out on a Real-Time based map. The tutorial in the original Rome: Total War walks you through it fairly well. Its cool because it takes into account morale, fatigue, flank attacks, armor, etc...
| 638 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:24:24am |
re: #630 thedopefishlives
That's not what he's saying. He's saying it's in your own self-interest to do so.
I believe it too. I want to be surrounded by healthy citizens who are free to pursue their happy, capitalist lives. I want an educated workforce innovating and building our nation so that we remain the pre-eminent society in the world, because I do think that we have a special place in this world, won by us in our history. I think all of us want to live in a wealthy, healthy America where everyone truly has the chance to succeed.
We just differ about the mechanisms of achieving that. I do not think the ideological divide is as large as politicians have made it appear to be. I think politicians profit by division, for if we were united in our demands of them they'd actually have to fucking do something.
| 639 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:24:30am |
re: #637 Hengineer
Now THAT'S old-school. I remember a few older games that alternated between turn-based macro strategy and real-time tactics. Those were always the most fun.
| 640 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:24:33am |
re: #636 cliffster
I don't know. If I heard people were dying in bed with these girls, I'd have to wonder what kind of stuff those girls we're doing. If you're young, got a good ticker, might as well find out..
"Hildegaard's Alpine Jump-Joint: Walk in, get carried out."
| 641 |
Daniel Ballard Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:24:34am |
re: #635 Guanxi88
I have a hunch red on red is more likely to be a bomb than a hit squad. This one is still murky as hell.
| 642 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:24:55am |
| 643 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:25:50am |
re: #633 Hengineer
Yeah, I knew standing archers beat horse cavalry, I just only thought of archers + troops to guard them and take the missile fire for them. I like the daring of your plan a lot.
| 644 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:25:55am |
re: #641 Rightwingconspirator
I have a hunch red on red is more likely to be a bomb than a hit squad. This one is still murky as hell.
If they're doing these things more cleanly - and it's by no means clear who did this or why - then so much the better.
Oh! "Gail" gets my nod for Sec'y of State.
| 645 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:26:08am |
re: #630 thedopefishlives
I've been staying out of it so far, but I think this sums you up pretty nicely. No offense, but if I want to be generous and support the poor, it should be my choice, not foisted on me because someone else thinks it's my obligation to do so.
The point that I am trying to construe is that the wealthiest Americans are the ones who are by far benefiting the most from our current social construct. And in exchange for that, they are expected to pay their share of taxes.
You think it's possible to become a multi-millionaire without a lower class to do all of the shit jobs in this country? Of course not. Whether the oligarchs recognize it or not, their lives of luxury are made possible by a bunch of underclass workers toiling away. So sack up, and pay your goddamn taxes. It's really not that bad. And quite frankly, I know for a fact that the effective tax rate the wealthiest Americans are paying is lower than the rate I am paying on my income.
| 646 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:26:33am |
re: #636 cliffster
I don't know. If I heard people were dying in bed with these girls, I'd have to wonder what kind of stuff those girls we're doing. If you're young, got a good ticker, might as well find out..
No shit. Give me the girl who has had to defibrulate the most customers.
| 647 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:26:35am |
re: #624 Hengineer
Actually the Europa Barbararoum mod for R:TW has totally nude male "Naked Fanatic" warriors for the Celtic-style factions (Germans, Gauls, Iberians), whereas the vanilla had them wear loincloths or breeches. You could change the models if you want them to have modesty, though. They just made the game more realistic.
Well that makes some sense. However having a nude party, trapsing around the countryside and towns, fighting dragons and trolls isn't done for realism. :D Also in some of the screenshots I've seen the guys seem to have permanent boners and then you have the mods that will make people into shemales....just not going to go there....... lol
| 648 |
Hengineer Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:26:57am |
re: #633 Hengineer
I usually used Pavise Crossbowmen in a checkerboard formation like the romans used. I lost a few to lancer charges, but I could clean their clocks because they would usually try to out-arch me with their horse archers. They can't beat the Crossbow punch, especially with that huge Pavise shield on their back.
One time playing as Hungary, I lost Kiev to the Mongols (the one time in all the times I played they advanced northward through Russia and the Ukraine), I held them off at those two river crossings. I had 3-4 Pavise Spearmen, and the rest Pavise Crossbow Militia, I would arrange the Pavise Spearmen in a semicircle around my side of the bridge exit and move the Pavise Crossbowmen Militia far back in a way so that their crossbows don't cross each other. They usually got stopped right at the edge of the bridge engaging my spearmen while my crossbows rained death into their massed ranks. It was beautiful to behold.
| 650 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:28:06am |
re: #645 drcordell
The point that I am trying to construe is that the wealthiest Americans are the ones who are by far benefiting the most from our current social construct. And in exchange for that, they are expected to pay their share of taxes.
You think it's possible to become a multi-millionaire without a lower class to do all of the shit jobs in this country? Of course not. Whether the oligarchs recognize it or not, their lives of luxury are made possible by a bunch of underclass workers toiling away. So sack up, and pay your goddamn taxes. It's really not that bad. And quite frankly, I know for a fact that the effective tax rate the wealthiest Americans are paying is lower than the rate I am paying on my income.
Biggest pile of Commie shit I've read since I got out of the CPUSA.
| 651 |
cliffster Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:28:36am |
| 652 |
Hengineer Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:28:48am |
re: #643 Obdicut
Yeah, I knew standing archers beat horse cavalry, I just only thought of archers + troops to guard them and take the missile fire for them. I like the daring of your plan a lot.
Well it seemed to work. You could have some spearmen in the front of the ranks just to take the Mongol Lancer charges but I used the checkerboard formation with plenty of space between so that the crossbows can fire at the sides of any attacking parties without killing too many of my own men.
| 653 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:29:18am |
re: #650 MandyManners
Biggest pile of Commie shit I've read since I got out of the CPUSA.
Insightful commentary, as usual, from MandyManners.
| 654 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:30:04am |
re: #650 MandyManners
Biggest pile of Commie shit I've read since I got out of the CPUSA.
Care to actually elaborate on any of that? Or do you find that the best arguments are ones that you would find on bumper stickers?
| 655 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:30:23am |
Social construct. Oligarch. Shit jobs. Toiling. Life of luxury. Underclass.
| 656 |
Hengineer Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:30:40am |
re: #655 MandyManners
Social construct. Oligarch. Shit jobs. Toiling. Life of luxury. Underclass.
Honk if you hate Commies.
| 657 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:31:24am |
re: #648 Hengineer
Nothing like a bridge battle to make one feel like the best damn general ever.
Oh, and I also had a king that lived to be 107. And at age 104 I was transporting him, with just his bodyguard unit, and he got ambushed by an enemy army consisting of spearmen, archers, and cavalry sergeants, two of each unit.
His unit demolished the archers, KOed the first sergeants, which made one group of spearmen rout and they picked off those but got stuck by the other spearmen and cavalry. Pretty soon it was just the 107 year old king against 74 spearmen and 22 enemy cavalrymen.
Who he proceeded to kill one by one over the course of fifteen minutes.
Now that's a goddamn king.
| 658 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:31:39am |
| 659 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:31:42am |
re: #651 cliffster
I've never taken her all that seriously but she seems ok. Even she goes easy on the nuts at CPAC. Why didn't she tape the anti-Lincoln speech at CPAC? I'd love to see that. Why not interview the Oathkeepers instead of just showing their empty booth? It's really lazy and superficial coverage.
| 660 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:31:46am |
Why, I would bet the good dr. would bitch that I have a crew using scaffolds to wash my windows and walls this week. Maybe I should do it myself so as to not insult these folks by giving them money for honest jobs.
Oh, the humanity.
| 661 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:31:58am |
re: #655 MandyManners
Social construct. Oligarch. Shit jobs. Toiling. Life of luxury. Underclass.
Wow you have proven that you can pick words out of my post and re-type them.
Which part of my post are you actually choosing to address?
| 662 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:31:59am |
re: #654 drcordell
Care to actually elaborate on any of that? Or do you find that the best arguments are ones that you would find on bumper stickers?
re: #655 MandyManners
Social construct. Oligarch. Shit jobs. Toiling. Life of luxury. Underclass.
I think at least one possible objection to your characterization is that it relies on the assumptions that the toiling underclass isn't paid for their work, and that the tax-code in some way rectifies this injustice. Neither is true, of course.
| 663 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:32:03am |
Are whorehouse defibrillation services covered under Obama's health reforom proposal?
| 664 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:32:18am |
re: #656 Hengineer
Honk if you hate Commies.
Ain't no need to go hating. Pitying might be the best response.
| 665 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:32:36am |
| 666 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:32:40am |
re: #636 cliffster
I don't know. If I heard people were dying in bed with these girls, I'd have to wonder what kind of stuff those girls we're doing. If you're young, got a good ticker, might as well find out..
Maybe they're forcing prostate exams on their customers!
*ducks*
| 667 |
cliffster Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:33:04am |
re: #659 Killgore Trout
I've never taken her all that seriously but she seems ok. Even she goes easy on the nuts at CPAC. Why didn't she tape the anti-Lincoln speech at CPAC? I'd love to see that. Why not interview the Oathkeepers instead of just showing their empty booth? It's really lazy and superficial coverage.
Well, if shit gets weird, she's a little outnumbered
| 668 |
The Sanity Inspector Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:33:20am |
re: #664 MandyManners
Ain't no need to go hating. Pitying might be the best response.
I'm not finished pitying their victims, yet.
| 669 |
Hengineer Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:33:27am |
re: #657 Obdicut
Nothing like a bridge battle to make one feel like the best damn general ever.
Oh, and I also had a king that lived to be 107. And at age 104 I was transporting him, with just his bodyguard unit, and he got ambushed by an enemy army consisting of spearmen, archers, and cavalry sergeants, two of each unit.
His unit demolished the archers, KOed the first sergeants, which made one group of spearmen rout and they picked off those but got stuck by the other spearmen and cavalry. Pretty soon it was just the 107 year old king against 74 spearmen and 22 enemy cavalrymen.
Who he proceeded to kill one by one over the course of fifteen minutes.
Now that's a goddamn king.
I never had the first Total Wars, just the later ones, the 3d ones. I love the Cavalry Charges in Medeival: total War. With those you could demolish ANYONE except pikemen, halberds or voulge!
| 670 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:33:32am |
Republicans joking about attack on the IRS?
More Texas Suicide Attack Humor
We'll have to wait and see the video, lefties have been exaggerating some of their headlines about CPAC.
| 672 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:33:54am |
re: #660 MandyManners
Actually, to me, all he's saying is that you should pay them a good wage and treat them well in the economic exchange. And that it's pretty awesome to live in a civil society where we have people like windowashers, and a civil society is worth preserving.
| 673 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:34:25am |
re: #671 MandyManners
Is what I wrote 'commie' and 'proggism' as well, Mandy? In my 638?
| 674 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:34:33am |
re: #668 The Sanity Inspector
I'm not finished pitying their victims, yet.
Thirty million in Russia/Eastern Europe alone or, does that include Mao's victims?
| 675 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:34:37am |
re: #657 Obdicut
Nothing like a bridge battle to make one feel like the best damn general ever.
One of the things we used to do in college was team up together and play 2 against 6, 7, or even 8 computer-controlled opponents in Age of Empires. (On the maximum difficulty, of course.) We'd choose a map with a single choke point, and then it was a mad dash to get at least 3 layers of walls erected by one player while the other player built the army. Once we had the 4th wall up, we felt secure enough to go on the offensive. Those last-ditch stands at the gates of our only defense were pretty epic.
| 676 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:34:45am |
re: #657 Obdicut
Nothing like a bridge battle to make one feel like the best damn general ever.
Oh, and I also had a king that lived to be 107. And at age 104 I was transporting him, with just his bodyguard unit, and he got ambushed by an enemy army consisting of spearmen, archers, and cavalry sergeants, two of each unit.
His unit demolished the archers, KOed the first sergeants, which made one group of spearmen rout and they picked off those but got stuck by the other spearmen and cavalry. Pretty soon it was just the 107 year old king against 74 spearmen and 22 enemy cavalrymen.
Who he proceeded to kill one by one over the course of fifteen minutes.
Now that's a goddamn king.
Okay, you two have definitely sold me. I'm going to look for it next time I'm in the big smoke.
Is it only kings though or can there be queens?
| 678 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:35:34am |
re: #674 MandyManners
Thirty million in Russia/Eastern Europe alone or, does that include Mao's victims?
Mao had no victims, and anyone quoting him is merely quoting Lee Atwater.
| 680 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:36:24am |
re: #649 MikeySDCA
Something about this caption makes me giggle:
Tiger's alleged mistresses include porn stars, bikini models, pancake waitresses and nightclub hostesses.
Must be the pancake waitresses. Mmmmm pancakes.
| 681 |
The Sanity Inspector Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:36:24am |
re: #649 MikeySDCA
Truly admirable speech by Tiger Woods. Tiger Woods. This has become something of a genre, but his was first class. No equivocation, no loopholes.
Yes, the usual "if I offended anyone, then I'm sorry" formulation is sickeningly weaselly.
| 682 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:36:29am |
re: #676 Jadespring
There's probably a mod for that. Heh.
I don't know, honestly. I mean, there are queens in Empire, definitely, but the fighting kings in medieval I think are exclusively male.
| 683 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:37:27am |
re: #660 MandyManners
Why, I would bet the good dr. would bitch that I have a crew using scaffolds to wash my windows and walls this week. Maybe I should do it myself so as to not insult these folks by giving them money for honest jobs.
Oh, the humanity.
How about you go back and read my entire post? Then maybe try and use your critical thinking skills and not jump to rash conclusions. Stop putting words in my mouth.
Nowhere did I say that it is "bad" that the lower class has jobs. In fact I acknowledge the opposite, that it's a GOOD THING. It's a good thing for the lower class AND for the upper class. The lower class gets jobs and income, and the upper class gets extremely rich. And when I say upper class I don't mean $200k upper class. I mean $200m upper class.
The point I am repeatedly trying to make is that the wealthiest Americans are the largest beneficiaries of the current government system we have. They enjoy a stable political system and functioning economy, and have benefited immensely from it. To the tune of millions upon millions of dollars. So what is the problem with paying taxes to ensure that this system continues to function and keep them extremely rich?
| 684 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:37:47am |
re: #682 Obdicut
There's probably a mod for that. Heh.
I don't know, honestly. I mean, there are queens in Empire, definitely, but the fighting kings in medieval I think are exclusively male.
Yeah I know. Damn realism. :)
A girl can imagine though.
| 685 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:37:52am |
re: #681 The Sanity Inspector
Yeah. Here's a hint: You probably did offend someone, since you're holding a press conference. So drop the 'if'.
Good on Tiger for standing up.
| 686 |
ShaunP Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:38:33am |
re: #670 Killgore Trout
Republicans joking about attack on the IRS?
More Texas Suicide Attack Humor
We'll have to wait and see the video, lefties have been exaggerating some of their headlines about CPAC.
His comment was not as as inflamitory as that article would make it seem:
"And I don't know if it's related, but I can just sense not only in my election, but since being here in Washington, people are frustrated. They want transparency, they want their elected officials to be accountable and open and talk about the things that are affecting their daily lives. So I'm not sure that there's a connection, I certainly hope not. But we need to do things better.
Cavuto: Um, you know invariably people are going to look at this and say, well, that's where some of this populist rage gets you. [At this point, footage of the building IRS building in Austin appears on the right of the screen.] Isn't that a bit extreme?
Brown: Well, yeah, of course it's extreme. You don't know anything about the individual. He could have had other issues, certainly. No one likes paying taxes, obviously. But the way we're trying to deal with things and have been in the past, at least until I got here is, there's such a logjam in Washington. And people want us to do better. They want us to help solve the problems that are affecting Americans in a very real way. "
I do think it adds more sanity to an insane instance than I would have made, but he wasn't rationalizing it IMO...
| 687 |
Hengineer Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:39:00am |
re: #676 Jadespring
Okay, you two have definitely sold me. I'm going to look for it next time I'm in the big smoke.
Is it only kings though or can there be queens?
Ah only in the latest one, Empire: Total war, but then the rulers can't field.
One of my hardest games (I haven't even finished, I was playing as France in Medieval 2: Total War), I was a little overzealous in taking out the English and I pissed off the pope. I killed the pope in a battle when he tried to take Toulouse from me. Seriously, the Pope was with his "Generals Bodygard" on the field of battle. The Papal States is the one faction every single Catholic faction tries to ally.
| 688 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:39:42am |
re: #686 ShaunP
His comment was not as as inflamitory as that article would make it seem:
"And I don't know if it's related, but I can just sense not only in my election, but since being here in Washington, people are frustrated. They want transparency, they want their elected officials to be accountable and open and talk about the things that are affecting their daily lives. So I'm not sure that there's a connection, I certainly hope not. But we need to do things better.
Cavuto: Um, you know invariably people are going to look at this and say, well, that's where some of this populist rage gets you. [At this point, footage of the building IRS building in Austin appears on the right of the screen.] Isn't that a bit extreme?
Brown: Well, yeah, of course it's extreme. You don't know anything about the individual. He could have had other issues, certainly. No one likes paying taxes, obviously. But the way we're trying to deal with things and have been in the past, at least until I got here is, there's such a logjam in Washington. And people want us to do better. They want us to help solve the problems that are affecting Americans in a very real way. "
I do think it adds more sanity to an insane instance than I would have made, but he wasn't rationalizing it IMO...
No, you've read it wrong. The headline conveyed exactly the point that was intended; the content or facticity are totally irrelevant. The Austin attack must be pinned on the Right, on the Tea Partiers, if possible.
| 689 |
Hengineer Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:40:43am |
re: #687 Hengineer
Ah only in the latest one, Empire: Total war, but then the rulers can't field.
One of my hardest games (I haven't even finished, I was playing as France in Medieval 2: Total War), I was a little overzealous in taking out the English and I pissed off the pope. I killed the pope in a battle when he tried to take Toulouse from me. Seriously, the Pope was with his "Generals Bodygard" on the field of battle. The Papal States is the one faction every single Catholic faction tries to ally.
I haven't finished it but I think its still one of my saved games....I don't think so I finished another game later as France. I usually save it as the faction name......
French Aventourier's kick ASS. I like them better than Pavise Crossbowmen.
| 690 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:40:44am |
re: #683 drcordell
If you didn't have that first paragraph, that post would be a lot stronger.
| 692 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:41:27am |
re: #687 Hengineer
Ah only in the latest one, Empire: Total war, but then the rulers can't field.
One of my hardest games (I haven't even finished, I was playing as France in Medieval 2: Total War), I was a little overzealous in taking out the English and I pissed off the pope. I killed the pope in a battle when he tried to take Toulouse from me. Seriously, the Pope was with his "Generals Bodygard" on the field of battle. The Papal States is the one faction every single Catholic faction tries to ally.
How many Total War games are there? Is it best to just start with the first one or if you had to recommend one, which would it be?
| 693 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:41:33am |
re: #662 Guanxi88
I think at least one possible objection to your characterization is that it relies on the assumptions that the toiling underclass isn't paid for their work, and that the tax-code in some way rectifies this injustice. Neither is true, of course.
Wrong. Nowhere did I say that the toiling underclass isn't paid for their work. I simply acknowledge that there will ALWAYS be a toiling underclass. There is simply no way to avoid this fact. There will always be menial tasks that need doing, and there will always be a class that completes those tasks. You cannot deny this.
| 694 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:41:38am |
You think it's possible to become a multi-millionaire without a lower class to do all of the shit jobs in this country? Of course not. Whether the oligarchs recognize it or not, their lives of luxury are made possible by a bunch of underclass workers toiling away.
If that isn't Marxism I'll eat a bug.
| 695 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:41:52am |
| 696 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:42:31am |
re: #693 drcordell
Wrong. Nowhere did I say that the toiling underclass isn't paid for their work. I simply acknowledge that there will ALWAYS be a toiling underclass. There is simply no way to avoid this fact. There will always be menial tasks that need doing, and there will always be a class that completes those tasks. You cannot deny this.
Who denies it? I'm trying to figure out how the income tax is related to the facts of differential compensation. That's the missing piece.
| 697 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:43:15am |
re: #694 MandyManners
That's not Marxism. Marxism would be saying, "And this will lead to an inevitable-- and good-- rise of the proletariat who will overthrow this system and put in place the rule of the proletariat".
What Cordell is saying is, "So it's okay to have progressive taxation".
There's a rather large difference.
| 698 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:43:26am |
re: #686 ShaunP
You don't know anything about the individual. He could have had other issues, certainly.
I've been wondering if he had a history of DV.
| 699 |
RogueOne Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:43:28am |
re: #656 Hengineer
Honk if you hate Commies.
I dislike commies but what really pushes my buttons are fake commies, like Rage Against the Machine.
| 700 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:43:44am |
re: #685 Obdicut
Yeah. Here's a hint: You probably did offend someone, since you're holding a press conference. So drop the 'if'.
Good on Tiger for standing up.
Tiger should play golf and stop trying to manipulate the media. I bet if just gets out there and wins a few tournaments, the sponsors will quickly line up at his door and all will be forgiven in short order.
| 701 |
Hengineer Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:44:08am |
re: #692 Jadespring
How many Total War games are there? Is it best to just start with the first one or if you had to recommend one, which would it be?
Well starting all the way back....
Shogun: Total War
Medieval: Total War
Viking Invasion
Rome: Total War
Barbarian Invasion
Medieval II : Total War
Kingdoms
Empire: Total War
Napoleon
Rome: Total War was the first one with 3d models instead of 2d sprites. Its hard to get the first two in stores, I would say start with Rome: Total War. The later games start adding levels of complexity that a beginner in the Total War Universe doesn't need.
| 702 |
cliffster Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:44:32am |
re: #686 ShaunP
His comment was not as as inflamitory as that article would make it seem:
"And I don't know if it's related, but I can just sense not only in my election, but since being here in Washington, people are frustrated. They want transparency, they want their elected officials to be accountable and open and talk about the things that are affecting their daily lives. So I'm not sure that there's a connection, I certainly hope not. But we need to do things better.
Cavuto: Um, you know invariably people are going to look at this and say, well, that's where some of this populist rage gets you. [At this point, footage of the building IRS building in Austin appears on the right of the screen.] Isn't that a bit extreme?
Brown: Well, yeah, of course it's extreme. You don't know anything about the individual. He could have had other issues, certainly. No one likes paying taxes, obviously. But the way we're trying to deal with things and have been in the past, at least until I got here is, there's such a logjam in Washington. And people want us to do better. They want us to help solve the problems that are affecting Americans in a very real way. "
I do think it adds more sanity to an insane instance than I would have made, but he wasn't rationalizing it IMO...
I watched the interview, and this stuff is just an outright lie. Brown did not make fun of, or try to make political capital out of the IRS building in any way. It's pretty much standard protocol for the left these days - make up some fantasy conclusions about republican commentary and throw it out there like shit on the wall. It's ok, though, they are bashing right-wingers, so lies and bullshit are acceptable.
| 703 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:44:56am |
re: #701 Hengineer
Rome Total War has probably the best campaign, as well, as the Romans. My favorite, anyway.
| 704 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:44:58am |
re: #700 Spare O'Lake
Tiger should play golf and stop trying to manipulate the media. I bet if just gets out there and wins a few tournaments, the sponsors will quickly line up at his door and all will be forgiven in short order.
No matter what happens, I still won't find golf interesting.
| 705 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:45:36am |
re: #699 RogueOne
I dislike commies but what really pushes my buttons are fake commies, like Rage Against the Machine.
Vanguard of the Faux-letarians.
| 706 |
RogueOne Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:45:44am |
re: #685 Obdicut
Yeah. Here's a hint: You probably did offend someone, since you're holding a press conference. So drop the 'if'.
Good on Tiger for standing up.
He shouldn't apologize to anyone other than his family. Who and how many people he sleeps with isn't any of our business, IMHO.
| 707 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:46:09am |
re: #686 ShaunP
I thought Brown's comments were pretty careless and bordering on insensitive but not outrageous.
| 708 |
ShaunP Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:46:16am |
re: #700 Spare O'Lake
Tiger should play golf and stop trying to manipulate the media. I bet if just gets out there and wins a few tournaments, the sponsors will quickly line up at his door and all will be forgiven in short order.
Think Kate Moss sniffing coke. re: #702 cliffster
I watched the interview, and this stuff is just an outright lie. Brown did not make fun of, or try to make political capital out of the IRS building in any way. It's pretty much standard protocol for the left these days - make up some fantasy conclusions about republican commentary and throw it out there like shit on the wall. It's ok, though, they are bashing right-wingers, so lies and bullshit are acceptable.
I think both sides equally use that tactic, but you are correct...
| 709 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:46:19am |
re: #694 MandyManners
If that isn't Marxism I'll eat a bug.
That's not just 'Marxism,' although you'll find comments like that in Marxist writing. You'll also find similar structural analysis in other economic philosophy including capitalistic ones. The words may be different and the emphasis may be different but it's there.
| 710 |
cliffster Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:46:52am |
re: #693 drcordell
Wrong. Nowhere did I say that the toiling underclass isn't paid for their work. I simply acknowledge that there will ALWAYS be a toiling underclass. There is simply no way to avoid this fact. There will always be menial tasks that need doing, and there will always be a class that completes those tasks. You cannot deny this.
You also said that the rich are the biggest beneficiaries of the stable society we maintain. I dare say that the toiling poor benefit heavily from the success of the toiling rich.
| 711 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:46:54am |
re: #701 Hengineer
Well starting all the way back...
Shogun: Total War
Medieval: Total War
Viking Invasion
Rome: Total War
Barbarian Invasion
Medieval II : Total War
Kingdoms
Empire: Total War
NapoleonRome: Total War was the first one with 3d models instead of 2d sprites. Its hard to get the first two in stores, I would say start with Rome: Total War. The later games start adding levels of complexity that a beginner in the Total War Universe doesn't need.
Great. Thanks
| 712 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:46:57am |
re: #706 RogueOne
I don't think he has the duty to, but I think he can do some good for the large number of young men who looked up to him as an inspirational role model by doing so.
I do think the media are sick assholes for the attention they pay other people's sex lives. I just do not care where others wing-wangs go or who's howdy-doody is getting splorked by whomevers mechanized drill bits.
| 713 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:47:03am |
re: #694 MandyManners
If that isn't Marxism I'll eat a bug.
It's not Marxism, it's capitalism. The textbook definition of capitalism. You hire a worker to do a task, and then sell the labor of his work for a higher price. You cannot refute this.
You somehow think that our economy would continue to function if there weren't millions upon millions of laborers in this country doing shitty jobs? Who is picking all of the produce? Who is slaughtering all of the meat? Who is cleaning up the floors and desks of every office building in this country? Who is cooking all of the meals in restaurants? Who is collecting all of the trash?
You simply refuse to acknowledge that there are miserable, but extremely necessary jobs that are being done that keep this economy running. And those jobs are also the jobs that pay the least.
| 714 |
Hengineer Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:47:28am |
re: #703 Obdicut
Rome Total War has probably the best campaign, as well, as the Romans. My favorite, anyway.
My current favorite is the Europa Barbararoum mod for R:TW.
I love them all though for different reasons.
Rome: Total War is a lot easier to jump in and play because its campaign had a lot less bells and whistles to it (extra agents, etc..). I have yet to actually use a princess for diplomacy... lmao.
I love the diplomacy in E:TW, just click on the button and start diplomacy.
| 715 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:47:32am |
re: #713 drcordell
It's not Marxism, it's capitalism. The textbook definition of capitalism. You hire a worker to do a task, and then sell the labor of his work for a higher price. You cannot refute this.
You somehow think that our economy would continue to function if there weren't millions upon millions of laborers in this country doing shitty jobs? Who is picking all of the produce? Who is slaughtering all of the meat? Who is cleaning up the floors and desks of every office building in this country? Who is cooking all of the meals in restaurants? Who is collecting all of the trash?
You simply refuse to acknowledge that there are miserable, but extremely necessary jobs that are being done that keep this economy running. And those jobs are also the jobs that pay the least.
And all of that relates to the income tax - how?
| 716 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:47:44am |
re: #707 Killgore Trout
My initial reaction to it was very negative, but it was probably overboard. I heard it in the same time period of watching the dumbass hanging video and the 'geld obama' sign and my blood was up.
| 717 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:47:56am |
re: #713 drcordell
You simply refuse to acknowledge that there are miserable, but extremely necessary jobs that are being done that keep this economy running. And those jobs are also the jobs that pay the least.
And you think we're obligated to make up that difference through taxing the rich through their ill-gotten gains. Neither of those positions is tenable, and you know it.
| 718 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:48:23am |
re: #717 thedopefishlives
And you think we're obligated to make up that difference through taxing the rich through their ill-gotten gains. Neither of those positions is tenable, and you know it.
But one of them is certainly popular.
| 719 |
Hengineer Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:48:56am |
re: #711 Jadespring
Great. Thanks
Yep, its also probably the easiest for a beginner to learn from. I know I did! The vanilla includes a basic tutorial that shows you click by click how to basically play.
| 720 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:49:11am |
re: #706 RogueOne
He shouldn't apologize to anyone other than his family. Who and how many people he sleeps with isn't any of our business, IMHO.
Fair comment, but then again, there is the Guinness Book of Records thing.
| 721 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:50:03am |
re: #713 drcordell
Well, I think you're partly wrong. Those jobs don't have to be miserable. They really don't. They can be perfectly fun, being worked at by people who are happy to do so.
Our current economy has far too many low-paying and aggravating service jobs (Nickle and Dimed is a great book exploring this, for anyone interested), but that's not about the job, it's just about the conditions of the job.
It is not true that the wealthy always are wealthy due to the oppression and exploitation of an underclass, or that working class jobs have to be unsatisfactory or their workers unhappy.
What you want is for the workers to be happy; you don't want an end to the wealthy. Right?
| 722 |
Hengineer Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:50:03am |
re: #720 Spare O'Lake
Fair comment, but then again, there is the Guinness Book of Records thing.
I'm probably sure there are people who hold that record far and above beyond what Tiger could even dream of accomplishing.
| 723 |
cliffster Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:50:15am |
re: #716 Obdicut
My initial reaction to it was very negative, but it was probably overboard. I heard it in the same time period of watching the dumbass hanging video and the 'geld obama' sign and my blood was up.
How so, Obdicut? What did he say that was bad? He was asked a direct question about it, and he did all he could to not be rude and say, "why would you even bring this into it?" He basically brushed it to the side. How are you seeing it in as rude, insensitive, or otherwise?
| 724 |
badger1970 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:50:22am |
re: #720 Spare O'Lake
Fair comment, but then again, there is the Guinness Book of Records thing.
Walt Chamberlain?
| 725 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:50:55am |
re: #723 cliffster
How so, Obdicut? What did he say that was bad? He was asked a direct question about it, and he did all he could to not be rude and say, "why would you even bring this into it?" He basically brushed it to the side. How are you seeing it in as rude, insensitive, or otherwise?
Obdicut's blood was up at the time; it can happen to us all.
| 726 |
_RememberTonyC Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:51:04am |
This is from an email forwarded to me by my VERY liberal wife:
===================================================
The 28th Amendment
For too long we have been too complacent about the workings of Congress. Many citizens had no idea that Congressmembers could retire with the same pay after only one term, that they didn't pay into Social Security, that they specifically exempted themselves from many of the laws they have passed (such as being exempt from any fear of prosecution for sexual harassment) while ordinary citizens must live under those laws. The latest is to exempt themselves from the Healthcare Reform that is being considered...in all of its' forms. Somehow, that doesn't seem logical. We do not have an elite that is above the law. I truly don't care if they are Democrat, Republican, Independent or whatever. The self-serving must stop. This is a good way to do that. It is an idea whose time has come.
Proposed 28th Amendment to the United States Constitution:
"Congress shall make no law that applies to the citizens of the United States that does not apply equally to the Senators and Representatives; and, Congress shall make no law that applies to the Senators and Representatives that does not apply equally to the citizens of the United States".
Discuss ....
| 728 |
RogueOne Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:51:08am |
re: #712 Obdicut
I don't think he has the duty to, but I think he can do some good for the large number of young men who looked up to him as an inspirational role model by doing so.
I do think the media are sick assholes for the attention they pay other people's sex lives. I just do not care where others wing-wangs go or who's howdy-doody is getting splorked by whomevers mechanized drill bits.
I'm not a fan of golf so I'm not a real big Tiger fan either. A sex crazed weekend full of hookers is something I can understand.
| 729 |
Hengineer Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:51:33am |
re: #721 Obdicut
Well, I think you're partly wrong. Those jobs don't have to be miserable. They really don't. They can be perfectly fun, being worked at by people who are happy to do so.
Our current economy has far too many low-paying and aggravating service jobs (Nickle and Dimed is a great book exploring this, for anyone interested), but that's not about the job, it's just about the conditions of the job.
It is not true that the wealthy always are wealthy due to the oppression and exploitation of an underclass, or that working class jobs have to be unsatisfactory or their workers unhappy.
What you want is for the workers to be happy; you don't want an end to the wealthy. Right?
I wouldn't say that all jobs are happy. Would you be happy if you worked in a septic treatment facility? I happened to catch Dave Attel's Insomniac show and one night he was in one of those at like 3 AM. Or watch the show "Dirty Jobs." There are jobs that no one wants to do, but they HAVE to be done.
| 730 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:51:51am |
re: #696 Guanxi88
Who denies it? I'm trying to figure out how the income tax is related to the facts of differential compensation. That's the missing piece.
I am saying that paying taxes is what keeps our government running, and therefore what keeps our entire economy running. And without the rich paying their fair share of taxes, the entire system breaks down. And then the lives of the rich get a whole, whole lot worse.
Would you want to be a millionaire driving around in Somalia? I sure wouldn't. Political stability is the key factor in allowing an upper class to develop. Without being lynched by a pitchforked mob that is.
| 731 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:52:45am |
re: #720 Spare O'Lake
Fair comment, but then again, there is the Guinness Book of Records thing.
Wilt Chamberlains record will never be broken
| 732 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:52:49am |
re: #722 Hengineer
I'm probably sure there are people who hold that record far and above beyond what Tiger could even dream of accomplishing.
It gives him something to shoot for.
| 733 |
Hengineer Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:53:00am |
re: #726 _RememberTonyC
This is from an email forwarded to me by my VERY liberal wife:
===
The 28th Amendment
For too long we have been too complacent about the workings of Congress. Many citizens had no idea that Congressmembers could retire with the same pay after only one term, that they didn't pay into Social Security, that they specifically exempted themselves from many of the laws they have passed (such as being exempt from any fear of prosecution for sexual harassment) while ordinary citizens must live under those laws. The latest is to exempt themselves from the Healthcare Reform that is being considered...in all of its' forms. Somehow, that doesn't seem logical. We do not have an elite that is above the law. I truly don't care if they are Democrat, Republican, Independent or whatever. The self-serving must stop. This is a good way to do that. It is an idea whose time has come.Proposed 28th Amendment to the United States Constitution:
"Congress shall make no law that applies to the citizens of the United States that does not apply equally to the Senators and Representatives; and, Congress shall make no law that applies to the Senators and Representatives that does not apply equally to the citizens of the United States".Discuss ...
What's funny is that she's acting like a "classical" liberal, someone who is for the freedom of the individual, basically a libertarian.
| 734 |
cliffster Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:53:01am |
re: #712 Obdicut
I don't think he has the duty to, but I think he can do some good for the large number of young men who looked up to him as an inspirational role model by doing so.
I do think the media are sick assholes for the attention they pay other people's sex lives. I just do not care where others wing-wangs go or who's howdy-doody is getting splorked by whomevers mechanized drill bits.
Amen, friend. He correctly feels that he can influence the core behavior of hundreds of thousands of young people, and he did a good thing with the way he addressed it.
| 735 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:53:05am |
| 737 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:53:55am |
| 738 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:54:23am |
re: #721 Obdicut
Well, I think you're partly wrong. Those jobs don't have to be miserable. They really don't. They can be perfectly fun, being worked at by people who are happy to do so.
Our current economy has far too many low-paying and aggravating service jobs (Nickle and Dimed is a great book exploring this, for anyone interested), but that's not about the job, it's just about the conditions of the job.
It is not true that the wealthy always are wealthy due to the oppression and exploitation of an underclass, or that working class jobs have to be unsatisfactory or their workers unhappy.
What you want is for the workers to be happy; you don't want an end to the wealthy. Right?
That's close. All I am trying to get across is that the richest 1% should recognize that an extra few % paid in taxes to ensure a politically-stable underclass is ultimately in their best interest.
I'm not saying steal the riches money to compensate the poor. I'm saying that tax money to keep the system humming along merely ensures that the rich will have a lovely society and economy to benefit from.
| 740 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:54:37am |
re: #730 drcordell
I am saying that paying taxes is what keeps our government running, and therefore what keeps our entire economy running. And without the rich paying their fair share of taxes, the entire system breaks down. And then the lives of the rich get a whole, whole lot worse.
Would you want to be a millionaire driving around in Somalia? I sure wouldn't. Political stability is the key factor in allowing an upper class to develop. Without being lynched by a pitchforked mob that is.
If you think there are enough rich people to pay the freight, you're sadly mistaken.
Similarly, if you think this nation would dissolve into Somali-style anarchy in the absence of a heavy system of progressive taxation to fund an apparatus sufficiently powerful to keep the pitchforked mob in check, then you're sadly mistaken.
Oh! and rich people can and do move. For now.
| 741 |
_RememberTonyC Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:54:42am |
re: #733 Hengineer
What's funny is that she's acting like a "classical" liberal, someone who is for the freedom of the individual, basically a libertarian.
my wife is a very cool chick .... liberal socially, but all about personal responsibility.
| 742 |
Hengineer Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:55:34am |
re: #741 _RememberTonyC
my wife is a very cool chick ... liberal socially, but all about personal responsibility.
Tell her she's a libertarian. see if her gasket blows.
| 743 |
Hengineer Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:57:00am |
Anyways, I'm almost done with the first part of Far Cry 2 for the PC. Maybe I'll try and find every single Diamond Briefcase in Leboa-Sako before I head finish the storyline missions there.... I know I want to at least find the Jackal Tapes...
| 744 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:57:12am |
re: #723 cliffster
Because:
And I don't know if it's related, but I can just sense not only in my election, but since being here in Washington, people are frustrated.
Well, if he doesn't know if it's related, why the hell is he using this time to score a political point about people being fed up with Washington?
And:
But the way we're trying to deal with things and have been in the past, at least until I got here is, there's such a logjam in Washington. And people want us to do better. They want us to help solve the problems that are affecting Americans in a very real way.
He's not only self-aggrandizing with the 'until I got here' part, to me, this implies that the reason that this guy flew a plane into a building was because he wanted government to do better at solving the world's problems. And that is, to me, far too close to blaming the victim.
Feel free to call that lies or bullshit. But when someone flies a plane into a building, I do not expect to hear people start talking about a logjam in Washington.
| 745 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:57:38am |
re: #717 thedopefishlives
And you think we're obligated to make up that difference through taxing the rich through their ill-gotten gains. Neither of those positions is tenable, and you know it.
Again, don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say "ill-gotten" anywhere. All I'm saying is that the wealthiest Americans should realize that they rely on those less fortunate than them for society to keep functioning. And paying taxes that ensure our government maintains the current political system ultimately is beneficial for the rich.
| 746 |
_RememberTonyC Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:58:31am |
re: #742 Hengineer
Tell her she's a libertarian. see if her gasket blows.
why are you trying to cause trouble? are you a divorce lawyer or something :)
| 747 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:58:31am |
re: #744 Obdicut
Because:
He's not only self-aggrandizing with the 'until I got here' part, to me, this implies that the reason that this guy flew a plane into a building was because he wanted government to do better at solving the world's problems. And that is, to me, far too close to blaming the victim.
Feel free to call that lies or bullshit. But when someone flies a plane into a building, I do not expect to hear people start talking about a logjam in Washington.
Oh, so why do you suppose Brown brought the discussion around to the Austin attack?
Wait? HE wasn't the one who turned the conversation that way?
| 748 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:58:53am |
re: #745 drcordell
You did use the phrase 'oligarchs', which has a pretty negative connotation, which I think explains part of the reaction you're getting.
| 749 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:59:09am |
re: #710 cliffster
You also said that the rich are the biggest beneficiaries of the stable society we maintain. I dare say that the toiling poor benefit heavily from the success of the toiling rich.
Quite Concur.
| 750 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:59:18am |
re: #748 Obdicut
You did use the phrase 'oligarchs', which has a pretty negative connotation, which I think explains part of the reaction you're getting.
Yeah, Lord knows that's a word that really riles up the room.
| 751 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:59:54am |
re: #747 Guanxi88
I don't think that Brown brought it up and then changed the subject, no. I'm not sure where you got that from.
He was asked about it, and diverted to talking about a logjam in Washington. To me, that is, at best, insensitive, and at worst, self-serving. Especially given the 'until I got here' comment.
| 752 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:00:08am |
Tiger may be right up there in the "Average Cost Per Screw" category.
| 753 |
RogueOne Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:00:27am |
Interesting piece in the WaPo:
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]
The left has a political interest in defining the broad backlash against expanded government as identical to the worst elements of the Tea Party movement -- birthers and Birchers, militias and nativists, racists and conspiracy theorists, acolytes of Ron Paul, Tom Tancredo and Lyndon LaRouche.This characterization fits a predisposition of some on the left to dismiss many of their fellow citizens as dangerous rubes. It does not fit the 60 percent of New Jersey independents, the 66 percent of Virginia independents and the 73 percent of Massachusetts independents who voted for Republicans in recent elections. It does not fit Palinism, which, in spite of populist excesses, usually swims in the conservative mainstream. It does not even fit the polling of Tea Party activists and sympathizers, who report a fairly typical range of conservative views. The Tea Party movement, on the whole, seems to be an intensification of conservative activism, not the triumph of the paranoid style of politics.
But the birthers and Birchers, militias and nativists, racists and conspiracy theorists do exist. Some, having waited decades in deserved obscurity, hope to ride a populist movement like remoras. But there are others, new to political engagement, who have found paranoia and anger intoxicating. They watch Glenn Beck rail against the omnipresent threat of Saul Alinsky, read Ayn Rand's elevation of egotism and contempt for the weak, listen to Ron Paul attacking the Federal Reserve cabal, and suddenly their resentments become ordered into a theory. Such theories, in politics, can act like a drug, causing addiction, euphoria and psychedelic departures from reality.
...................
Eventually, these theories require repudiation or else they can taint a political movement -- like a little red dye turns a container of water pink. This is precisely what William F. Buckley did in the 1950s and '60s, repudiating Rand and Robert Welch of the John Birch Society, thereby creating a legitimate conservatism that could elect candidates such as Ronald Reagan.A similar effort will be required today of conservative political and intellectual leaders. It will not be easy. Sometimes it takes courage to stand before a large crowd and proclaim that two plus two equals four.
Snip
| 754 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:00:58am |
re: #748 Obdicut
You did use the phrase 'oligarchs', which has a pretty negative connotation, which I think explains part of the reaction you're getting.
Along with the fact that many people here are a bit weary of the old argument that rich people somehow owe more to society simply because they are rich. It may, in fact, be in their self-interest to pay more in taxes or some other form of financial support; but shouldn't that be for them to decide? Why force the issue? It only serves to stir up animosity toward the government.
| 755 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:01:38am |
re: #751 Obdicut
I don't think that Brown brought it up and then changed the subject, no. I'm not sure where you got that from.
He was asked about it, and diverted to talking about a logjam in Washington. To me, that is, at best, insensitive, and at worst, self-serving. Especially given the 'until I got here' comment.
Oh, I just thought that he must have brought it up, the way he was catching flak for it.
He changed the subject from something unrelated to what he was doing to something he was involved in. What else could he have done?
| 756 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:01:59am |
Yucca Mt...an epic waste of money and technology....so what's the alternative now? or is there one?....all that tax money down the tubes
[Link: www.kxnt.com...]
Closing Yucca Mountain will leave 130,000 metric tons of nuclear waste stranded at 131 different sites spread across 39 states. The federal government will be at risk of breach-of-contract lawsuits for breaking agreements with utility companies. Some estimates indicate the potential for the Obama DOE could incur more than 50 billion dollars of legal liability in the case.
more at AmThinker
| 757 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:03:30am |
re: #756 albusteve
Yucca Mt...an epic waste of money and technology...so what's the alternative now? or is there one?...all that tax money down the tubes
[Link: www.kxnt.com...]
Closing Yucca Mountain will leave 130,000 metric tons of nuclear waste stranded at 131 different sites spread across 39 states. The federal government will be at risk of breach-of-contract lawsuits for breaking agreements with utility companies. Some estimates indicate the potential for the Obama DOE could incur more than 50 billion dollars of legal liability in the case.
more at AmThinker
I hear Iran is interested.
| 758 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:03:48am |
re: #740 Guanxi88
If you think there are enough rich people to pay the freight, you're sadly mistaken.
Similarly, if you think this nation would dissolve into Somali-style anarchy in the absence of a heavy system of progressive taxation to fund an apparatus sufficiently powerful to keep the pitchforked mob in check, then you're sadly mistaken.
Oh! and rich people can and do move. For now.
There are enough rich people to pay the freight. They are doing so right now. The statistic that people such as yourself love to throw around is that the wealthiest 1% of Americans pay something like 50% of all taxes. Which is true, they do pay roughly 50% of all taxes. But they also receive roughly 50% of all income, so it's all good.
The notion that people who extremely, extremely wealthy would pack up and leave the U.S. because their taxes are too high is laughable. How do you think they made all that money in the first place? Because of the economy created by the U.S. government.
They can bitch and whine and hum and haw all they want about how much money they are paying in taxes on $30 million dollars in income. But without the system we live in, that income would be $0. And last time I checked $30 million minus $10 million or so in taxes is still a hell of a lot more than $0.
It reminds me of how the WSJ loves to write editorials talking about the "lucky duckies" that don't make enough money to pay income taxes. Lucky duckies making $17,000 a year, but not paying any taxes. Compared to the "unlucky duckies" who are making $30 million dollars a year but paying $10 million in taxes. Right.
| 759 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:03:56am |
re: #749 Dark_Falcon
Yeah. Who benefits more really isn't the issue. The issue is whether everyone benefits; and we all do. It's in my interest for my neighbor to succeed-- as long as he's not a rent-seeker.
Sadly, we do have plenty of rent-seeking in the economy, but it can't really be helped in most cases.
But anyway, yeah: the American dream did not used to be to get a McMansion and a Lexus and go to Hawaii every year. It was a good house and to send your kids to college, which my grandfather was able to do as a skilled tradesman. There is no shame in being working class, and it takes dignity away from those jobs to say that their only purpose is to make someone richer.
However, there are also backbreaking, unpleasant jobs at that level, and there are also people who are being wrung out in the system.
But all of us want it better for them. We just degree on the mechanism that bring the best result for us.
| 760 |
ShaunP Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:04:42am |
re: #755 Guanxi88
Oh, I just thought that he must have brought it up, the way he was catching flak for it.
He changed the subject from something unrelated to what he was doing to something he was involved in. What else could he have done?
I can't believe that I'm about to say this, but...
Glenn Beck actually had a great way of handling this:
"We have no idea what this man’s ideology was…he could be from the left, he hates capitalism, he has an anti-business creed that goes on and on. It sounds like anything you could hear in a speech from Van Jones. When you read his anti-tax ravings and his anti-tax or IRS stuff it sounds like you could be reading bumper stickers off the cars or the signs of the Tea Party. We have no idea. But here’s the point. I have no idea if he’s left or right. Is he a communist or a radical constitutionalist. Here’s the point: it doesn’t matter. The guy is a killer..."
| 762 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:05:08am |
re: #757 Spare O'Lake
I hear Iran is interested.
BO does this stuff with no explanation or alternative...he's like a little kid
| 763 |
cliffster Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:05:23am |
re: #744 Obdicut
Feel free to call that lies or bullshit. But when someone flies a plane into a building, I do not expect to hear people start talking about a logjam in Washington.
I will call it an interpretation by someone who very much wants to find fault with Brown. He was giving an interview about something else entirely and was asked a question about this.
| 764 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:06:03am |
re: #758 drcordell
There are enough rich people to pay the freight. They are doing so right now. The statistic that people such as yourself love to throw around is that the wealthiest 1% of Americans pay something like 50% of all taxes. Which is true, they do pay roughly 50% of all taxes. But they also receive roughly 50% of all income, so it's all good.
The notion that people who extremely, extremely wealthy would pack up and leave the U.S. because their taxes are too high is laughable. How do you think they made all that money in the first place? Because of the economy created by the U.S. government.
They can bitch and whine and hum and haw all they want about how much money they are paying in taxes on $30 million dollars in income. But without the system we live in, that income would be $0. And last time I checked $30 million minus $10 million or so in taxes is still a hell of a lot more than $0.
It reminds me of how the WSJ loves to write editorials talking about the "lucky duckies" that don't make enough money to pay income taxes. Lucky duckies making $17,000 a year, but not paying any taxes. Compared to the "unlucky duckies" who are making $30 million dollars a year but paying $10 million in taxes. Right.
Eh, I'll let it drift.
Suffice to say, wealthy people - and their businesses - can and do leave places with high rates of taxation and move to places with lower rates. Further, suffice to say that you could tax the ever-loving shit outta the top 1% and still not ahve anything like enough money to get the job done. There's just not enough of 'em, and once they get hip to the fact they're getting killed tax-wise, they'll shut down, throw their money into Municipal Bonds, and call it a day.
| 765 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:06:42am |
re: #755 Guanxi88
He could have talked about the incident? Perhaps said a few things against the people who spend their day speaking armed revolution? Had a thought or two for the firefighters? Or even just said he wasn't familiar with the subject, and instead of saying "I don't know if it's related, but.." simply saying that he wanted to talk about something else?
| 766 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:06:48am |
re: #748 Obdicut
You did use the phrase 'oligarchs', which has a pretty negative connotation, which I think explains part of the reaction you're getting.
Yeah that's the thing. You can change the words. Talk about pretty much the same thing and reactions are different. Had a economics prof that used to show how similar the structural analysis part of economic theory is and assumptions that are made. Like when he put up a bunch of quotes and asked who said this. Most of the class said, "Oh that has to be Marx'. It wasn't, it was Adam Smith. Adam Smith of course is no freaking commie. Father of capitalist theory and all that. The point he was making is that when reading and analysing economic thought and theory was to not just have knee jerk reactions to well this automatically fits into one category and this in another because you'll miss the forest through the trees.
| 767 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:07:08am |
re: #748 Obdicut
You did use the phrase 'oligarchs', which has a pretty negative connotation, which I think explains part of the reaction you're getting.
I specifically used the word "oligarchs" because that is who I am referring to. I am trying to differentiate as much as possible between middle-class and wealthy. When I say "rich" I don't mean the guy down the street who makes $300k a year and just bought a Porsche. I mean the people who truly, truly do run this country. The top .1% that controls over 30% of the nation's wealth. The people that truly are oligarchs.
| 768 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:08:49am |
re: #765 Obdicut
He could have talked about the incident? Perhaps said a few things against the people who spend their day speaking armed revolution? Had a thought or two for the firefighters? Or even just said he wasn't familiar with the subject, and instead of saying "I don't know if it's related, but.." simply saying that he wanted to talk about something else?
Gotcha!
1) He should condemn folk who may or may not have anything to do with the incident;
2) He should say something about firefighters
3) Should NOT have said "I don't know if it's related..." but rather "I'm not familiar with this matter..."
Your blood was up; it happens to us all.
| 769 |
Hengineer Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:08:56am |
re: #764 Guanxi88
Eh, I'll let it drift.
Suffice to say, wealthy people - and their businesses - can and do leave places with high rates of taxation and move to places with lower rates. Further, suffice to say that you could tax the ever-loving shit outta the top 1% and still not ahve anything like enough money to get the job done. There's just not enough of 'em, and once they get hip to the fact they're getting killed tax-wise, they'll shut down, throw their money into Municipal Bonds, and call it a day.
Happens all the time:
"Hallo, I am Dell Tech Support I am from Bombay, how can I help today you?"
| 770 |
RogueOne Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:09:06am |
I want to highlight this portion of the article:
It does not fit the 60 percent of New Jersey independents, the 66 percent of Virginia independents and the 73 percent of Massachusetts independents who voted for Republicans in recent elections.
Those numbers are killing the democrats right now. Independents are all but fleeing their ranks. If they don't understand that simple concept very shortly they may as well write off their majority.
| 771 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:09:08am |
re: #764 Guanxi88
Eh, I'll let it drift.
There's just not enough of 'em, and once they get hip to the fact they're getting killed tax-wise, they'll shut down, throw their money into Municipal Bonds, and call it a day.
You can keep repeating that all you want, but that doesn't make it true. There are no "John Galts" in this world. Only an idiot would shut down a business that generates $100 million dollars of profit over a tax bill that climbed from $20 million dollars to $30 million dollars.
| 772 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:09:15am |
re: #763 cliffster
You can call it whatever you like. I have no particular opinion on Brown, and I would not have voted for his opponent and I think the Democrats showed contempt for the electorate by nominating her.
| 773 |
SteveC Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:09:35am |
re: #756 albusteve
Yucca Mt...an epic waste of money and technology...so what's the alternative now? or is there one?...all that tax money down the tubes
The bill was introduced a day after Gov. Mark Sanford said the state may have to take legal action to keep the Yucca Mountain open as an option, claiming political deals were made and 25 years of promises were being broken after South Carolinians had put $1.2 billion into the project.
Ummmm..... 'scuse me, but doesn't anyone remember what happened the last time we duked it out with the Federal Government? I seem to remember there was a bit of trouble!
| 774 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:09:55am |
re: #753 RogueOne
Interesting piece in the WaPo:
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]
A similar effort will be required today of conservative political and intellectual leaders. It will not be easy. Sometimes it takes courage to stand before a large crowd and proclaim that two plus two equals four.
Snip
But don't expect such courage to come along very often. Too many people who have shown it were then ripped apart by the crowd (mostly figuratively, but on rare occasions literally) for telling them what they did not want to hear. Most politicians are careerists and will not take such risks. I'm not even sure I'd be able to do it. It would definitely be a "knock on wood" moment:
| 775 |
Hengineer Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:09:56am |
re: #767 drcordell
I specifically used the word "oligarchs" because that is who I am referring to. I am trying to differentiate as much as possible between middle-class and wealthy. When I say "rich" I don't mean the guy down the street who makes $300k a year and just bought a Porsche. I mean the people who truly, truly do run this country. The top .1% that controls over 30% of the nation's wealth. The people that truly are oligarchs.
You mean the people who don't know or care if ANY of us even exist?
| 776 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:10:06am |
re: #767 drcordell
You are not referring to oligarchs, no, because we are not an oligarchy. arch means government. Unless you are directly alleging we are not in fact a democratic republic, we have no oligarchs!
| 777 |
McSpiff Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:10:43am |
re: #756 albusteve
Yucca Mt...an epic waste of money and technology...so what's the alternative now? or is there one?...all that tax money down the tubes
[Link: www.kxnt.com...]
Closing Yucca Mountain will leave 130,000 metric tons of nuclear waste stranded at 131 different sites spread across 39 states. The federal government will be at risk of breach-of-contract lawsuits for breaking agreements with utility companies. Some estimates indicate the potential for the Obama DOE could incur more than 50 billion dollars of legal liability in the case.
more at AmThinker
Again, blame Jimmy Carter (and you know where I stand on the political spectrum albusteve). Why we want to bury fuel that can be re-enriched and re-used I'll never understand. The idea that any American plutonium will end up used in foreign weapons is bullshit. Burn, don't bury.
| 778 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:10:56am |
re: #776 Obdicut
You are not referring to oligarchs, no, because we are not an oligarchy. arch means government. Unless you are directly alleging we are not in fact a democratic republic, we have no oligarchs!
Keep telling yourself that.
| 779 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:10:59am |
re: #771 drcordell
You can keep repeating that all you want, but that doesn't make it true. There are no "John Galts" in this world. Only an idiot would shut down a business that generates $100 million dollars of profit over a tax bill that climbed from $20 million dollars to $30 million dollars.
Who says there's a Galt, except for whacky folk?
You really think someone's going to go through the grief and headache of running a business if the cost of doing business gets too high? At some point, tax-sheltered municipal bonds look a lot more attractive than negotiating with vendors, labor and local and federal regulatory agencies.
| 780 |
badger1970 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:11:13am |
re: #769 Hengineer
Except that his name is "Stephen" and tries his best to hide that fact.
| 781 |
Varek Raith Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:12:03am |
re: #777 McSpiff
Or, hell, send it into the frikkin' sun.
/wishful thinking.
| 782 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:12:07am |
re: #775 Hengineer
You mean the people who don't know or care if ANY of us even exist?
Yes. That is exactly who I am referring to. And I'm trying to get across the point that even though they don't truly care if any of us exist, they need us to exist. And that without all of the minimum-wage workers in the shadows, their lives of complete and utter ignorant bliss would not be possible.
| 783 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:12:15am |
re: #768 Guanxi88
I have no particular opinion on what he should have said, except that I think he should have either talked about the subject, or not talked about it, and not weakly tied it to the 'logjam' in Washington-- you know, the one that happened before he got there, as he's careful to point out.
| 784 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:12:43am |
The reek of class envy is over-powering.
No. Not just class envy but, plain, old envy.
| 785 |
RogueOne Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:12:49am |
re: #774 Dark_Falcon
But don't expect such courage to come along very often. Too many people who have shown it were then ripped apart by the crowd (mostly figuratively, but on rare occasions literally) for telling them what they did not want to hear. Most politicians are careerists and will not take such risks. I'm not even sure I'd be able to do it. It would definitely be a "knock on wood" moment:
You're right. My opinion is as long as they sing the right tune when it comes to the economy and taxes people will go along. They'll wait to fight about the periphery crap once the big issues are dealt with.
| 786 |
Sheila Broflovski Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:12:50am |
re: #782 drcordell
Yes. That is exactly who I am referring to. And I'm trying to get across the point that even though they don't truly care if any of us exist, they need us to exist. And that without all of the minimum-wage workers in the shadows, their lives of complete and utter ignorant bliss would not be possible.
Class envy much?
| 787 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:12:57am |
re: #779 Guanxi88
Who says there's a Galt, except for whacky folk?
You really think someone's going to go through the grief and headache of running a business if the cost of doing business gets too high? At some point, tax-sheltered municipal bonds look a lot more attractive than negotiating with vendors, labor and local and federal regulatory agencies.
Tax sheltered munis that are yielding what... 2% right now? Come on now.
| 788 |
Bagua Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:13:03am |
re: #782 drcordell
Yes. That is exactly who I am referring to. And I'm trying to get across the point that even though they don't truly care if any of us exist, they need us to exist. And that without all of the minimum-wage workers in the shadows, their lives of complete and utter ignorant bliss would not be possible.
How do you know what the rich care about?
| 789 |
Hengineer Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:13:03am |
re: #782 drcordell
Yes. That is exactly who I am referring to. And I'm trying to get across the point that even though they don't truly care if any of us exist, they need us to exist. And that without all of the minimum-wage workers in the shadows, their lives of complete and utter ignorant bliss would not be possible.
Not even just the minimum wage earners. They even need middle class and upper-middle class workers to exist. Its odd that the system works in such a fashion.
| 790 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:13:35am |
re: #786 Alouette
Class envy much?
Who says I'm not happy with my own life. I certainly ain't toiling away cleaning up shit for minimum wage. I have a great fucking life.
| 791 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:13:50am |
re: #787 drcordell
Tax sheltered munis that are yielding what... 2% right now? Come on now.
At no tax? Why the Hell not? Let someone else deal with vendors and such. Cyril'd rather work on his backhand.
| 792 |
McSpiff Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:14:13am |
re: #781 Varek Raith
Or, hell, send it into the frikkin' sun.
/wishful thinking.
I'd prefer not to send it through the atmosphere, but that's just personal preference. I'd say drop into Challenger Deep or any other area where it'll just be subsumed back into the crust. But seriously, close our fuel cycle and we're talking about a vastly smaller quantity of waste will significantly shorter half lives.
| 793 |
SixDegrees Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:14:15am |
re: #777 McSpiff
Again, blame Jimmy Carter (and you know where I stand on the political spectrum albusteve). Why we want to bury fuel that can be re-enriched and re-used I'll never understand. The idea that any American plutonium will end up used in foreign weapons is bullshit. Burn, don't bury.
I agree that the refusal to consider post-processing of nuclear fuel rods is profligate beyond belief. Not only does it extend the fuel supply by an order of magnitude or more - it also substantially reduces both the volume and the storage time of the final end product, making the entire storage problem much, much simpler than what is currently envisioned.
And in addition to all that, it also allows for extraction of many useful isotopes that have applications in both industry and medicine, many of which are currently in short and declining supply as demand for them continues to grow.
| 794 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:14:19am |
re: #784 MandyManners
The reek of class envy is over-powering.
No. Not just class envy but, plain, old envy.
Again going right for the ad hominem attacks. You are so completely and utterly predictable.
| 795 |
Hengineer Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:14:24am |
re: #784 MandyManners
The reek of class envy is over-powering.
No. Not just class envy but, plain, old envy.
At least I don't suffer from Dick envy.
| 796 |
The Sanity Inspector Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:15:02am |
re: #789 Hengineer
Not even just the minimum wage earners. They even need middle class and upper-middle class workers to exist. Its odd that the system works in such a fashion.
Is it such a shocka that the different classes of society need each other?
| 797 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:15:09am |
re: #771 drcordell
You can keep repeating that all you want, but that doesn't make it true. There are no "John Galts" in this world. Only an idiot would shut down a business that generates $100 million dollars of profit over a tax bill that climbed from $20 million dollars to $30 million dollars.
No, but he'll use his money to get you voted out in favor of me, because I'll cut his tax bill back a ways. Or he'll move parts of it oversea to evade taxes. Either way, you lose. Redistribution is a bad idea. Much better to improve the lot of the lower classes through market forces.
| 799 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:15:38am |
| 800 |
cliffster Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:15:49am |
re: #784 MandyManners
The reek of class envy is over-powering.
No. Not just class envy but, plain, old envy.
The class envy is strong and the Democrats are on it like sharks to blood. It's very sad. Instead of putting force a positive message - "we want everyone to succeed, and live their dreams", it's "those money grubbing rich sit in lavish hotels drinking expensive champagne paid for with YOUR HARD WORK while you can't make your car payment". Very sad.
| 801 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:15:52am |
re: #778 drcordell
Oh good god.
We have rich people who are in the government. We have a high bar for wealth in seeking most elected offices. We have far too much crossover between government and lobbyists.
But at the end of the day we vote for people, we go down to the voting booths and put our votes in and they are counted and it's a beautiful thing, man! Nobody can force you to vote in a certain way, and you never have to say who you voted for.
I hate that there's so much money in campaigns, but our government is far, far, far too decentralized to eve be called an oligarchy. It is not a small group of the elite who rule. Hell, the amount of power devolved into judges alone is enormous.
Hyperbole is one thing, but this is just gosh-darned inaccurate.
| 802 |
claire Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:15:58am |
re: #713 drcordell
re: #771 drcordell
There are no "John Galts" in this world. blockquote>
Sure there are- see NY as a case study. And that's over a 1.5% increase in state taxes, not anything close to a 30% increase in taxes that you just mentioned.
| 803 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:16:02am |
Thursday's protest came after the Council of State's association voted on Monday by an overwhelming majority against the appointment of women as judges in the council, an influential court which advises Egypt's government.
Up to 80 women showed up at the protest with most of the activists holding up posters that read in Arabic: "This is a black day for Egypt's history."
SNIP
Yes, I know it's Al Jazeera.
| 804 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:16:03am |
re: #791 Guanxi88
At no tax? Why the Hell not? Let someone else deal with vendors and such. Cyril'd rather work on his backhand.
I thought I was the pinko commmie Marxist and you guys were the true capitalists. You're telling me that in a capitalist society people are going to leave profits sitting on the table because it requires work? What?
| 805 |
Bagua Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:16:21am |
re: #790 drcordell
Who says I'm not happy with my own life. I certainly ain't toiling away cleaning up shit for minimum wage. I have a great fucking life.
Why the obsession with the rich? Extending them imaginary powers and authority. In America they have one vote apiece, just like the mailman and the garbageman.
| 806 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:16:58am |
| 807 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:17:02am |
re: #794 drcordell
Again going right for the ad hominem attacks. You are so completely and utterly predictable.
Again, you're thinking a bit too highly of yourself.
| 808 |
Varek Raith Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:17:08am |
re: #792 McSpiff
It's kinda funny but, I'm more concerned about dropping waste into subduction zones than into space.
:shrugs:
:)
| 809 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:17:16am |
re: #804 drcordell
I thought I was the pinko commmie Marxist and you guys were the true capitalists. You're telling me that in a capitalist society people are going to leave profits sitting on the table because it requires work? What?
Yeah, if the cost of doing business (taxes, headaches, and what-have-you) becomes too high, people will sit it out. That's not leaving money on the table, that's cashing in your chips and going to check out the floor show.
| 810 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:17:27am |
| 811 |
Hengineer Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:17:39am |
re: #796 The Sanity Inspector
Is it such a shocka that the different classes of society need each other?
Its the paradox that the system works because everyone out is pretty much to screw over everyone else, yet it works....sorta
| 812 |
claire Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:17:41am |
re: #782 drcordell
You consider yourself part of the underclass? That blows me away.
| 814 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:18:13am |
re: #804 drcordell
I thought I was the pinko commmie Marxist and you guys were the true capitalists. You're telling me that in a capitalist society people are going to leave profits sitting on the table because it requires work? What?
I Dr. Cordell back again complaining about being FORCED to make money at CBS. This is getting tiring.
| 815 |
Hengineer Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:18:27am |
re: #810 MandyManners
BITE MY SHINY METAL ASS.
You're forgetting the 2nd most used word. I forget what it was, flowers?
| 816 |
McSpiff Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:18:27am |
re: #793 SixDegrees
I agree that the refusal to consider post-processing of nuclear fuel rods is profligate beyond belief. Not only does it extend the fuel supply by an order of magnitude or more - it also substantially reduces both the volume and the storage time of the final end product, making the entire storage problem much, much simpler than what is currently envisioned.
And in addition to all that, it also allows for extraction of many useful isotopes that have applications in both industry and medicine, many of which are currently in short and declining supply as demand for them continues to grow.
It was great that Regan repealed the particular Presidential order banning civilian re-enrichment, but I seriously think its something he should have really pushed the industry to adopt as a way to partially solve the waste problem. Now the entire North American nuclear economy is based entirely around the open fuel cycle model.
Don't take this as a strong criticism of Regan tho, just a missed opportunity. The blame goes entirely to Carter, the one president who really should have known better (a nuclear engineer by trade if I'm not mistaken).
| 817 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:18:38am |
re: #814 Walter L. Newton
I Dr. Cordell back again complaining about being FORCED to make money at CBS. This is getting tiring.
GAZE
| 818 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:18:47am |
| 819 |
Varek Raith Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:19:07am |
| 820 |
SixDegrees Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:19:14am |
re: #798 Varek Raith
Wow, getting a little heated in here...
Inevitable, when someone starts attacking the Kennedy Empire.
| 821 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:19:21am |
| 823 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:19:45am |
re: #797 Dark_Falcon
Taxation is just one part of the picture, though. As someone pointed out in an earlier thread, it's really hard to start up a tech company in the middle of Kansas. Even right now, it's hard. Not only is it difficult to convince people to move there, but the infrastructure of service isn't really there-- there isn't the depth of a labor pool as there is a metropolis.
The owner of the capital does have enormous force in our market, but the labor pool is important to.
| 824 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:19:50am |
| 825 |
Sheila Broflovski Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:20:24am |
re: #790 drcordell
Who says I'm not happy with my own life. I certainly ain't toiling away cleaning up shit for minimum wage. I have a great fucking life.
Yet here you are ranting and raving about "the rich"
| 826 |
cliffster Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:20:48am |
re: #824 Walter L. Newton
And considering that Dark Falcon is making that comment, I suspect it is very well warranted.
Actually, Dark Falcon has been a real jerk of late. I don't know what's wrong with that joker. ;)
| 827 |
Varek Raith Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:20:53am |
re: #824 Walter L. Newton
And considering that Dark Falcon is making that comment, I suspect it is very well warranted.
Quite Concur.
;)
| 828 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:21:10am |
re: #809 Guanxi88
Yeah, if the cost of doing business (taxes, headaches, and what-have-you) becomes too high, people will sit it out. That's not leaving money on the table, that's cashing in your chips and going to check out the floor show.
And I'm telling you that you haven't given a single real-world example of this behavior. It sounds really, really good on paper. But at the end of the day it just doesn't happen. If someone running their business is upset over their tax bill and decides to cash out and quit, someone else who wants that profit will move in and take over their market share. It's as simple as that.
| 829 |
Hengineer Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:21:33am |
re: #821 MandyManners
Shucks?
No, that whole Bender Thing. It was an episode where they compiled a list of Benders most used and least used words to come up with a code word to prevent the destruction of the world or something.
Number 6 : Bite
Number 5: My
Number 4 : shiny
Number 3: Metal
Number 2: Flowers
Number 1: Ass
Its number 2 I'm confused about I haven't seen that episode in a while
| 830 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:21:39am |
re: #814 Walter L. Newton
I Dr. Cordell back again complaining about being FORCED to make money at CBS. This is getting tiring.
I don't beleive I've ever heard anything about his story!!
//
| 831 |
Varek Raith Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:22:16am |
re: #829 Hengineer
* 10. Chump
* 9. Chumpette
* 8. Yours
* 7. Up
* 6. Pimpmobile
* 5. Bite
* 4. My
* 3. Shiny
* 2. Daffodil
* 1. Ass
;)
| 832 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:22:19am |
re: #816 McSpiff
It was great that Regan repealed the particular Presidential order banning civilian re-enrichment, but I seriously think its something he should have really pushed the industry to adopt as a way to partially solve the waste problem. Now the entire North American nuclear economy is based entirely around the open fuel cycle model.
Don't take this as a strong criticism of Regan tho, just a missed opportunity. The blame goes entirely to Carter, the one president who really should have known better (a nuclear engineer by trade if I'm not mistaken).
No, he was not a nuclear engineer by trade. He was a farmer who at one time had served on submarines and took a course of few about nuclear subs.
| 834 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:22:38am |
re: #789 Hengineer
Not even just the minimum wage earners. They even need middle class and upper-middle class workers to exist. Its odd that the system works in such a fashion.
It's always been that way in one form or another. Whether it was king system, capitalist and yes even communist though communism is/was an attempt to even it out somewhat.
Bringing the game discussion in. The King would not be really successful if he didn't have all the archers and swordsman weren't there to fight, or the farmers to produce the food and tradesman to make the weapons.
No man or woman is an island and no one does anything without other people being involved somehow, regardless of what individual perceptions might be. I think recognition of that point is all Cordell is after. Humans are social creatures and unless one is living out in the bush all by themselves then it is a communal affair. That's not 'communism' that's just basic human social reality.
| 835 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:22:39am |
Back in full-throated campaign mode, Obama is on a two-day swing through the West trying to shore up a pair of his party's embattled Senate incumbents.
well there goes another couple seats...BO is toxic, and the mayor of Vegas is gonna stiff him when he comes to town...some people just don't like that guy
Read more at the Washington Examiner: [Link: www.washingtonexaminer.com...]
| 836 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:22:45am |
re: #828 drcordell
And I'm telling you that you haven't given a single real-world example of this behavior. It sounds really, really good on paper. But at the end of the day it just doesn't happen. If someone running their business is upset over their tax bill and decides to cash out and quit, someone else who wants that profit will move in and take over their market share. It's as simple as that.
I hope it won't be you, because then when the business crashes and burns, you will be whining about how you were forced to move in and try to take over the market share.
| 837 |
Hengineer Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:23:07am |
re: #828 drcordell
And I'm telling you that you haven't given a single real-world example of this behavior. It sounds really, really good on paper. But at the end of the day it just doesn't happen. If someone running their business is upset over their tax bill and decides to cash out and quit, someone else who wants that profit will move in and take over their market share. It's as simple as that.
Its amusing to see the malls in Portland, Oregon so packed because the state of Washington has no state income taxes, it has a State Sales tax. Its economics at work.
| 838 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:23:09am |
re: #828 drcordell
Companies do move in respond to tax pressure, but it's only one factor among many. Regulatory environment is another one-- but key, as I posted above, is the available labor force.
Silicon Valley is Silicon Valley for a reason. You can be sure of a labor pool there. You can't just pull up roots and plonk down somewhere else and expect the same labor pool.
| 839 |
Claire Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:23:29am |
re: #813 drcordell
You mean like all the businesses that have moved to India and Mexico? Inconceivable!! Oh, wait- you mean it's already happened in droves?
| 840 |
Hengineer Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:23:34am |
re: #831 Varek Raith
* 10. Chump
* 9. Chumpette
* 8. Yours
* 7. Up
* 6. Pimpmobile
* 5. Bite
* 4. My
* 3. Shiny
* 2. Daffodil
* 1. Ass;)
Daffodil! that's what it was!
thanks ;)
| 841 |
Varek Raith Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:23:38am |
re: #833 drcordell
Or, your a sitting duck.
;)
| 842 |
jaunte Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:23:54am |
re: #838 Obdicut
HP relocated a lot of their manufacturing to Malaysia.
| 843 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:24:05am |
re: #824 Walter L. Newton
And considering that Dark Falcon is making that comment, I suspect it is very well warranted.
As it turns out, Hengineer was just making a bad joke, which is entirely forgivable. Drcordell, on the other hand got the down ding for insulting Mandy, whose only offense was to call "bullshit!" on his spouting liberal dogma all over this thread.
| 844 |
cliffster Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:24:16am |
Getting violent in here. Time for some more fitty. 50 Cent - Toy Soldiers
| 845 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:24:50am |
re: #829 Hengineer
No, that whole Bender Thing. It was an episode where they compiled a list of Benders most used and least used words to come up with a code word to prevent the destruction of the world or something.
Number 6 : Bite
Number 5: My
Number 4 : shiny
Number 3: Metal
Number 2: Flowers
Number 1: AssIts number 2 I'm confused about I haven't seen that episode in a while
I've never seen the show. I only know about it because The Kid--when he was a wee one--popped off with it after he had figured out how to over-ride the parental controls on his television. He was four or so.
| 846 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:25:31am |
re: #839 Claire
You mean like all the businesses that have moved to India and Mexico? Inconceivable!! Oh, wait- you mean it's already happened in droves?
You do realize you have proved my very point. The businesses have outsourced their labor to those countries. But guess where they probably still keep their corporate headquarters? Guess where their executives live? Guess where those executives pay income tax?
It sure as shit ain't India. They're still right here in the good ol' U S of A. Because they will bitch and moan about their taxes a whole lot, and threaten to leave even more. But at the end of the day their market for their products is still here. And they still want to live here, because it's the greatest nation in the world.
| 847 |
McSpiff Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:25:40am |
re: #832 MandyManners
No, he was not a nuclear engineer by trade. He was a farmer who at one time had served on submarines and took a course of few about nuclear subs.
Whoops, my mistake. I'd still argue that what little nuclear training he had was more than any other president in that particular area, and that he should have known better.
| 848 |
Hengineer Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:25:41am |
re: #834 Jadespring
It's always been that way in one form or another. Whether it was king system, capitalist and yes even communist though communism is/was an attempt to even it out somewhat.
Bringing the game discussion in. The King would not be really successful if he didn't have all the archers and swordsman weren't there to fight, or the farmers to produce the food and tradesman to make the weapons.
No man or woman is an island and no one does anything without other people being involved somehow, regardless of what individual perceptions might be. I think recognition of that point is all Cordell is after. Humans are social creatures and unless one is living out in the bush all by themselves then it is a communal affair. That's not 'communism' that's just basic human social reality.
Crap there was this one book written by Ursula K. Gin, I think its the Disposessed, about a Utopian anarchist society created on a moon of a planet that's basically a model for our society. The "Utopian Society" starts to model our own society with a "collective" that still starts to govern in a way that feels oppressive.
| 849 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:25:47am |
re: #835 albusteve
Back in full-throated campaign mode, Obama is on a two-day swing through the West trying to shore up a pair of his party's embattled Senate incumbents.
well there goes another couple seats...BO is toxic, and the mayor of Vegas is gonna stiff him when he comes to town...some people just don't like that guy
Read more at the Washington Examiner: [Link: www.washingtonexaminer.com...]
"Back" in it? Heck, he's never stopped!!!
| 850 |
cliffster Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:25:58am |
re: #843 Dark_Falcon
As it turns out, Hengineer was just making a bad joke, which is entirely forgivable. Drcordell, on the other hand got the down ding for insulting Mandy, whose only offense was to call "bullshit!" on his
spouting liberal dogma all over this thread.pooping liberal dogma all over the thread and wiping it on the thread's wall.
Needed to have more fecal imagery.
| 851 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:26:38am |
re: #843 Dark_Falcon
As it turns out, Hengineer was just making a bad joke, which is entirely forgivable. Drcordell, on the other hand got the down ding for insulting Mandy, whose only offense was to call "bullshit!" on his spouting liberal dogma all over this thread.
Mandy didn't call bullshit. She simply ignored what I wrote and called me envious. She attacked the messenger, and I called her out on it.
| 852 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:27:02am |
I have to post from home on my own time...I have no employer to pay me while I post on the internet...I'm very upset
| 853 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:27:02am |
re: #842 jaunte
Yeah. And more and more jobs will be able to be moved as education goes up in the rest of the world-- one reason we need to get off our asses on that front.
I'm not saying no jobs can ever get outsourced or moved, but that-- as anyone who's dealt with contract Indian computer engineer firms can tell you-- you get what you pay for.
| 854 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:27:14am |
re: #843 Dark_Falcon
As it turns out, Hengineer was just making a bad joke, which is entirely forgivable. Drcordell, on the other hand got the down ding for insulting Mandy, whose only offense was to call "bullshit!" on his spouting liberal dogma all over this thread.
He dinged me???
*sob*
| 855 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:27:16am |
re: #833 drcordell
I guess I'm over the target now...
TIE Invader 5 to Death Star, have Rebel Y-Wing in sight. Not signs of sense from its pilot. Engaging now, color it gone."
/Stay on Target!
| 856 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:27:24am |
re: #846 drcordell
You do realize you have proved my very point. The businesses have outsourced their labor to those countries. But guess where they probably still keep their corporate headquarters? Guess where their executives live? Guess where those executives pay income tax?
It sure as shit ain't India. They're still right here in the good ol' U S of A. Because they will bitch and moan about their taxes a whole lot, and threaten to leave even more. But at the end of the day their market for their products is still here. And they still want to live here, because it's the greatest nation in the world.
So... make do... change careers, fight, get another job, feel proud that you didn't let the "system" beat you.
But stop whining.
| 857 |
drcordell Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:27:40am |
re: #856 Walter L. Newton
So... make do... change careers, fight, get another job, feel proud that you didn't let the "system" beat you.
But stop whining.
GAZE
| 859 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:27:52am |
re: #847 McSpiff
Whoops, my mistake. I'd still argue that what little nuclear training he had was more than any other president in that particular area, and that he should have known better.
A wee bit of training does not an education make.
| 860 |
Hengineer Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:28:19am |
re: #855 Dark_Falcon
TIE Invader 5 to Death Star, have Rebel Y-Wing in sight. Not signs of sense from its pilot. Engaging now, color it gone."
/Stay on Target!
/use the force Falcon, ignore the target!
| 861 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:28:26am |
re: #857 drcordell
GAZE
I thought you already had Walter on GAZE ,,,
Does the second one negate the 1st !?!?!
| 862 |
cliffster Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:28:34am |
re: #853 Obdicut
I'm not saying no jobs can ever get outsourced or moved, but that-- as anyone who's dealt with contract Indian computer engineer firms can tell you-- you get what you pay for.
man, you got that right.
| 863 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:28:38am |
re: #856 Walter L. Newton
So... make do... change careers, fight, get another job, feel proud that you didn't let the "system" beat you.
But stop whining.
and he's getting PAID for this constant drivel...wow
| 864 |
jaunte Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:28:38am |
re: #853 Obdicut
I think that present discrepancy in skill will only be temporary, so yes, education will be important.
| 865 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:28:45am |
| 866 |
The Sanity Inspector Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:28:45am |
re: #800 cliffster
The class envy is strong and the Democrats are on it like sharks to blood. It's very sad. Instead of putting force a positive message - "we want everyone to succeed, and live their dreams", it's "those money grubbing rich sit in lavish hotels drinking expensive champagne paid for with YOUR HARD WORK while you can't make your car payment". Very sad.
The central belief of every moron is that he is the victim of a mysterious conspiracy against his common rights and true deserts. He ascribes all his failure to get on in the world, all of his congenital incapacity and damfoolishness, to the machinations of werewolves assembled in Wall Street, or some other such den of infamy. If these villains could be put down, he holds, he would at once become rich, powerful and eminent. Nine politicians out of every ten, of whatever party, live and have their being by promising to perform this putting down. In brief, they are knaves who maintain themselves by preying on the idiotic vanities and pathetic hopes of half-wits.
– H. L. Mencken, Baltimore Evening Sun, June 15, 1936
| 867 |
cliffster Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:28:53am |
| 868 |
Hengineer Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:29:18am |
Why in the hell is the Russian Curling team much hotter than the USA Curling team?
that's like sacrilegious!
| 869 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:29:38am |
| 870 |
Hengineer Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:29:54am |
re: #868 Hengineer
Why in the hell is the Russian Curling team much hotter than the USA Curling team?
that's like sacrilegious!
FEMALE CURLERS FEMALE CURLERS
don't you dare get those weird ideas!
| 871 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:29:55am |
re: #860 Hengineer
/use the force Falcon, ignore the target!
Seems you have some Jedi opposition today, Darth Varek. Better go get your double-bladed lightsaber. ;)
| 872 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:29:58am |
re: #861 sattv4u2
I thought you already had Walter on GAZE ,,,
Does the second one negate the 1st !?!?!
Double GAZE!....WOOK OUUUT!
| 873 |
DaddyG Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:30:06am |
No sane person argues that everyone shouldn't pay their fair share of taxes to support the basic infrastructure of our government - and provide for the common welfare.
The argument is how much is enough?
The emotional appeal to "fair share" and "rich vs. poor" is bogus. What we really need to compute taxes on is the tax revenues generated by tax structure and rates. Defining a small business owner who has all of his 1-2 million in net worth tied up in cash flow as rich then taking a sizable chunk of his gross income each year could kill large swaths of our economy and reduce revenues.
If you are only talking about the top 1% then there isn't enough money there to run the government if you took it all.
| 874 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:30:19am |
| 875 |
Hengineer Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:30:25am |
re: #869 MandyManners
I'm busy snickering.
ok need a shoulder to appear to cry on while hiding the snickering? Or do you wish to be seen snickering in plain sight?
| 876 |
Varek Raith Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:30:27am |
re: #855 Dark_Falcon
TIE Invader 5 to Death Star, have Rebel Y-Wing in sight. Not signs of sense from its pilot. Engaging now, color it gone."
/Stay on Target!
My new Deathstar as an Awesome targeting computers that can hit snub fighters with the super laser.
Muhahaha, waste of firepower but, So. Worth. It.
/
| 877 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:30:32am |
| 878 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:30:43am |
| 880 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:30:59am |
| 881 |
ShaunP Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:31:09am |
re: #847 McSpiff
Whoops, my mistake. I'd still argue that what little nuclear training he had was more than any other president in that particular area, and that he should have known better.
re: #866 The Sanity Inspector
The central belief of every moron is that he is the victim of a mysterious conspiracy against his common rights and true deserts. He ascribes all his failure to get on in the world, all of his congenital incapacity and damfoolishness, to the machinations of werewolves assembled in Wall Street, or some other such den of infamy. If these villains could be put down, he holds, he would at once become rich, powerful and eminent. Nine politicians out of every ten, of whatever party, live and have their being by promising to perform this putting down. In brief, they are knaves who maintain themselves by preying on the idiotic vanities and pathetic hopes of half-wits.
– H. L. Mencken, Baltimore Evening Sun, June 15, 1936
That quote works equally well for both commies and teabaggers...
| 883 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:31:49am |
re: #875 Hengineer
ok need a shoulder to appear to cry on while hiding the snickering? Or do you wish to be seen snickering in plain sight?
I'm rather up-front about my snickering.
| 884 |
McSpiff Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:31:49am |
re: #859 MandyManners
A wee bit of training does not an education make.
I'm really not sure why you're arguing with me on this one. I'm saying Carter shouldn't have banned enrichment, he knew nuclear power was safe from his time in the navy, should have known that proliferation from civilian stocks was a non-issue and Regan was smart to bring it back. That's not something you'd normally argue against?
| 885 |
darthstar Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:31:50am |
re: #877 Killgore Trout
Texas Plane Crash: Did Suicidal Pilot Joe Stack Have Explosives on Board?
Couldn't they find a picture of him doing something besides smiling and playing his bass? Hell, a driver's license photo would be appropriate.
| 886 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:31:53am |
re: #877 Killgore Trout
Texas Plane Crash: Did Suicidal Pilot Joe Stack Have Explosives on Board?
Size of plane compared to extent of damage I wouldn't be shocked
| 887 |
Varek Raith Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:31:56am |
| 888 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:31:56am |
re: #848 Hengineer
Crap there was this one book written by Ursula K. Gin, I think its the Disposessed, about a Utopian anarchist society created on a moon of a planet that's basically a model for our society. The "Utopian Society" starts to model our own society with a "collective" that still starts to govern in a way that feels oppressive.
Yep because extremes one way or the other just don't work. We are both individualistic and collectivist at the same time. Human condition. The Bioshock games explore both these themes and about how taking one or the other to the extreme, in the quest for Utopia falls into oppression. First one, pure individualism and the second pure collectivism. They're really smart and intelligent games and one of the reason I loved them. The shooting part is fun and all but the story and themes just make them pretty amazing.
| 889 |
badger1970 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:32:15am |
| 890 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:32:37am |
re: #876 Varek Raith
My new Deathstar as an Awesome targeting computers that can hit snub fighters with the super laser.
Muhahaha, waste of firepower but, So. Worth. It.
/
Good show. I'll herd him towards you, making for a nice Tarkin Doctrine demonstation.
| 891 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:32:50am |
re: #853 Obdicut
Yeah. And more and more jobs will be able to be moved as education goes up in the rest of the world-- one reason we need to get off our asses on that front.
I'm not saying no jobs can ever get outsourced or moved, but that-- as anyone who's dealt with contract Indian computer engineer firms can tell you-- you get what you pay for.
Really, about four years ago, when my career as a programmer was taking a turn for the worst and I lost my full time programming job of 13 years as a contractor with the DOE, I spent 5 months as a contractor at McKesson Technologies, the third largest provider of drugs and other medical services.
In my case, I worked at the division which wrote and supplied hospital management systems.
There were 200 employees at this division. About 50 were full time employees. The rest, about 150, were contractors. About 75 of them were from India, on a 6 month training stay in this country with McKesson.
After their training, they went back to India to carry on projects and tasks over there.
Smartest bunch of men and woman I ever met in Information Technology.
You pay and deal with India IT contractors? What is your professional knowledge in the India IT business?
| 892 |
Varek Raith Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:33:07am |
| 893 |
Kragar Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:33:14am |
re: #876 Varek Raith
My new Deathstar as an Awesome targeting computers that can hit snub fighters with the super laser.
Muhahaha, waste of firepower but, So. Worth. It.
/
My question is, why didn't Grand Moff Tarkin just blow up the gas giant Yavin? Why did he wait for the moon to get into view? Seems to me blowing up a planet would cause its moons to be destroyed or at least hurled thru space, destroying all life on them.
| 894 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:33:25am |
| 896 |
SixDegrees Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:33:42am |
re: #884 McSpiff
I'm really not sure why you're arguing with me on this one. I'm saying Carter shouldn't have banned enrichment, he knew nuclear power was safe from his time in the navy, should have known that proliferation from civilian stocks was a non-issue and Regan was smart to bring it back. That's not something you'd normally argue against?
I took it as agreement, not argument.
Meanwhile, Carter's buck-toothed idiocy continues to amaze the world, even to this day.
| 897 |
cliffster Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:34:25am |
re: #877 Killgore Trout
Texas Plane Crash: Did Suicidal Pilot Joe Stack Have Explosives on Board?
I'm no aeronautical physicist engineer, but I'm thinking he couldn't stuff much into the plane that would noticeably increase the effect of a tank full of fuel...
| 898 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:35:45am |
re: #891 Walter L. Newton
Smartest bunch of men and woman I ever met in Information Technology.
You pay and deal with India IT contractors? What is your professional knowledge in the India IT business?
My companies loss/protection division is there (India). Met some of those dudes at a seminar in Tulsa years ago
They were SO far ahead of the 'locals" it was impressive ( and sad)
| 899 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:36:01am |
re: #891 Walter L. Newton
We have a contract with a Ukrainian programming contract house. The language barrier isn't as bad as it could be, and all in all, they do work that is of a standard equal with the American engineers here in the head office. For tech support and other customer-oriented roles it's probably a lot different, but as programmers, there's a lot of smart people in the world outside of the United States.
| 900 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:36:15am |
re: #893 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
My question is, why didn't Grand Moff Tarkin just blow up the gas giant Yavin? Why did he wait for the moon to get into view? Seems to me blowing up a planet would cause its moons to be destroyed or at least hurled thru space, destroying all life on them.
The core of a Gas Giant is much larger than a normal planet. The First Death Star's superlaser didn't have enough firepower to destroy it. It would have cracked it and caused outgassing, but would not have destroyed it.
| 901 |
cliffster Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:36:23am |
re: #894 Walter L. Newton
Not always true in the least, see my re: #891 Walter L. Newton
Well, I deal with a lot. And of course there are those that are good. But for every one that is, there are 20 that are loafers. It has more to do with motivation than intelligence. You outsource to them because it's cheap. Which means they aren't getting paid much. The biggest problem is attrition. People looking to pad their resume a little before they pop off to another job.
| 902 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:36:45am |
re: #898 sattv4u2
Smartest bunch of men and woman I ever met in Information Technology.
You pay and deal with India IT contractors? What is your professional knowledge in the India IT business?
My companies loss/protection division is there (India). Met some of those dudes at a seminar in Tulsa years ago
They were SO far ahead of the 'locals" it was impressive ( and sad)
That's my point. Obdicut sounds like he doesn't know what he is talking about in the least when it comes to Indian IT contractors.
| 903 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:37:08am |
re: #896 SixDegrees
I took it as agreement, not argument.
Meanwhile, Carter's buck-toothed idiocy continues to amaze the world, even to this day.
Jimmy Carter: Worst.President.EVER
| 904 |
Claire Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:37:11am |
re: #846 drcordell
You do realize you have proved my very point. The businesses have outsourced their labor to those countries. But guess where they probably still keep their corporate headquarters? Guess where their executives live? Guess where those executives pay income tax? .
Malaysia, Malaysia, Malaysia? India, India, India? China, China, China? It'sa where the money is, it's where the incentives are.
It sure as shit ain't India. They're still right here in the good ol' U S of A. Because they will bitch and moan about their taxes a whole lot, and threaten to leave even more. But at the end of the day their market for their products is still here. And they still want to live here, because it's the greatest nation in the world.
Really, we have a good friend who started a software company in India- they have an $80 million contract to do human resources S/W for the Federal Gov't. Guess where they live now, pay taxes, have their headquarters? Hint: It ain't San Jose anymore.
| 905 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:37:23am |
re: #901 cliffster
Which means they aren't getting paid much
By our "standards", perhaps no
By theirs ,,,,,they mostly are
| 906 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:37:36am |
re: #897 cliffster
I'm no aeronautical physicist engineer, but I'm thinking he couldn't stuff much into the plane that would noticeably increase the effect of a tank full of fuel...
No, there were explosives hidden in the building!
//
| 907 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:37:39am |
re: #884 McSpiff
I'm really not sure why you're arguing with me on this one. I'm saying Carter shouldn't have banned enrichment, he knew nuclear power was safe from his time in the navy, should have known that proliferation from civilian stocks was a non-issue and Regan was smart to bring it back. That's not something you'd normally argue against?
I'M NOT ARGUING.
*WHACKWHACKWHACKWHACK*
| 908 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:37:55am |
re: #901 cliffster
Well, I deal with a lot. And of course there are those that are good. But for every one that is, there are 20 that are loafers. It has more to do with motivation than intelligence. You outsource to them because it's cheap. Which means they aren't getting paid much. The biggest problem is attrition. People looking to pad their resume a little before they pop off to another job.
You just described the typical American work force. I found Obdicuts comment to be all inclusive with out a ounce of proof.
| 909 |
cliffster Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:38:04am |
re: #905 sattv4u2
Which means they aren't getting paid much
By our "standards", perhaps no
By theirs ,,,they mostly are
Depends completely on where you live.
| 910 |
McSpiff Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:38:10am |
| 911 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:38:11am |
The Onion sure was quick with this one:
| 913 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:38:41am |
re: #891 Walter L. Newton
I'm not sure why you started talking about IT, since I'm talking about general programming, but yes, I have dealt with a lot of different Indian computer engineering firms, and have found them to be in general unreliable, with large gaps in knowledge. I have met, and work with, many fine Indian engineers. But I'm talking about contracts being worked on by Indian firms in India, a lot of which are not very well run and do not have very good programming standards.
You're free to say your experience has been different, but you're comparing people you met who were being trained in the US, which is a rather different situation.
| 914 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:38:41am |
| 915 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:38:44am |
re: #911 Mad Al-Jaffee
The Onion sure was quick with this one:
I would suggest they had this pre-produced.
| 916 |
Kragar Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:38:56am |
re: #900 Dark_Falcon
The core of a Gas Giant is much larger than a normal planet. The First Death Star's superlaser didn't have enough firepower to destroy it. It would have cracked it and caused outgassing, but would not have destroyed it.
You dont need to cause complete obliteration. Breaking into sizable chunks, even if it took multiple shots, would have wreaked catastrophic damage to all neighboring celestial bodies.
| 917 |
The Sanity Inspector Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:39:19am |
re: #883 MandyManners
I'm rather up-front about my snickering.
All this snickering talk...did Charles pay for some subliminal advertising?
| 918 |
cliffster Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:39:25am |
re: #914 sattv4u2
Same as in the states!
Of course. But take the difference here, and multiply it by 100. That's how much it depends over there...
| 919 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:39:33am |
re: #913 Obdicut
I'm not sure why you started talking about IT, since I'm talking about general programming, but yes, I have dealt with a lot of different Indian computer engineering firms, and have found them to be in general unreliable, with large gaps in knowledge. I have met, and work with, many fine Indian engineers. But I'm talking about contracts being worked on by Indian firms in India, a lot of which are not very well run and do not have very good programming standards.
You're free to say your experience has been different, but you're comparing people you met who were being trained in the US, which is a rather different situation.
You made an all inclusive statement up thread, now you are backtracking and explaining yourself.
| 920 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:39:46am |
| 921 |
DaddyG Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:40:00am |
re: #900 Dark_Falcon
The core of a Gas Giant is much larger than a normal planet. The First Death Star's superlaser didn't have enough firepower to destroy it. It would have cracked it and caused outgassing, but would not have destroyed it.
...not enough midichlorians in the universe... mumble.
| 922 |
Hengineer Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:40:30am |
Seesh why do those Russian women curlers have to be so damned good looking? ugh
| 923 |
SixDegrees Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:40:39am |
re: #903 Dark_Falcon
Jimmy Carter: Worst.President.EVER
And he's working to clinch a similar honor - Worst Ex-President EVER. So far, his lead over even his closest contenders is impressive.
| 924 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:40:42am |
Could I get some help downstairs? We've got a troll down there and I need some help wrangling it to prep it for grilling as our lunch.
| 925 |
Varek Raith Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:40:52am |
re: #916 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
You dont need to cause complete obliteration. Breaking into sizable chunks, even if it took multiple shots, would have wreaked catastrophic damage to all neighboring celestial bodies.
But...then the Rebels wouldn't have the time to destroy the Deathstar!11!
;)
| 926 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:40:52am |
re: #917 The Sanity Inspector
All this snickering talk...did Charles pay for some subliminal advertising?
That reminds me to eat another piece of chocolate The Kid got for me.
| 927 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:41:03am |
SPOKANE, Wash. – An organizer of a weekend "tea party" gathering in eastern Washington said Thursday she was the speaker who drew applause from the crowd by calling for one of the state's Democratic U.S. senators to be hanged.
But Dianne Capps of Clarkston said her remark about Sen. Patty Murray was taken out of context, and what she meant was that Murray should be voted out of office in November.
[Link: news.yahoo.com...]
INCOMING!
| 928 |
cliffster Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:41:26am |
re: #908 Walter L. Newton
You just described the typical American work force. I found Obdicuts comment to be all inclusive with out a ounce of proof.
You're talking your experience, and he's talking his. I've had a lot of experience, and I agree with him 100%. The cost of a software project, post-construction, is insanely higher when you outsource it. Quality is low, adherence to business solution is low. Managers know this and they outsource anyways, maybe because they think they'll still come out ahead, or maybe because it looks sexy in their executive reports to say they are outsourcing.
| 929 |
McSpiff Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:41:29am |
re: #920 MandyManners
I DON'T KNOW. YOU TELL ME.
USUALLY..err sorry. Usually about Israel, and now apparently nuclear power and Jimmy Carter.
| 930 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:41:40am |
re: #917 The Sanity Inspector
I tried to up-ding you but the wheel thingy's going round and round.
| 931 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:42:14am |
re: #919 Walter L. Newton
I stand by my statement. You get what you pay for. If you're going to contract with an Indian programming company, expect highly variable results, more so than if you contracted with a US company. Expect it more likely that the company suddenly goes out of business, too, and that it experiences a higher turnover rate in staff.
| 932 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:42:19am |
re: #924 Dark_Falcon
Could I get some help downstairs? We've got a troll down there and I need some help wrangling it to prep it for grilling as our lunch.
No.?
| 933 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:42:24am |
re: #930 MandyManners
I tried to up-ding you but the wheel thingy's going round and round.
It'll go through eventually.
| 934 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:42:33am |
re: #924 Dark_Falcon
Could I get some help downstairs? We've got a troll down there and I need some help wrangling it to prep it for grilling as our lunch.
not from me
| 935 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:42:54am |
re: #924 Dark_Falcon
Could I get some help downstairs? We've got a troll down there and I need some help wrangling it to prep it for grilling as our lunch.
The troll barbecue is brushed and ready. Flavor of the day is spicy Cajun and bell pepper.
| 936 |
badger1970 Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:43:46am |
re: #921 DaddyG
...not enough midichlorians in the universe... mumble.
Darth Vader: Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.
Yes, moving things around with the force compares with a planet destroyer. //
-courtesy of Rifftrax
| 937 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:46:36am |
re: #916 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
You dont need to cause complete obliteration. Breaking into sizable chunks, even if it took multiple shots, would have wreaked catastrophic damage to all neighboring celestial bodies.
The core of a large gas giant like Yavin is also surrounded by a liquid layer several times thicker than the entire Earth. Punching through that would rob the superlaser of much of its punch. It would at effective half-power by the time it reached the core, at best. And it would still be dealing with a bigger target than it was intended to destroy. It would have taken multiple shots, and taken longer than orbiting the planet. Death Star 1 needed a full day to power up for a full power superlaser blast.
| 939 |
Varek Raith Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:47:02am |
re: #936 badger1970
Yes, moving things around with the force compares with a planet destroyer. //
-courtesy of Rifftrax
Actually, you can open wormholes with the Force.
The Force storm was actually not a storm; in fact, it was the ability to create hyperspace wormholes via the dark side of the Force. A Force storm could range from the size of a small starship, like a freighter, to huge maws capable of obliterating whole starfleets. The smaller storms appeared to be more easily controlled from great distances than the larger ones. No Force users other than Darth Sidious have thus far been capable of generating these spacial leviathans by their own power.
| 940 |
Sheila Broflovski Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:47:09am |
re: #889 badger1970
WI relatives are amazed at TX 8.25 sales tax, I remind them of no state income tax.
High sales tax = tax the poor.
| 941 |
cliffster Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:47:51am |
re: #924 Dark_Falcon
Could I get some help downstairs? We've got a troll down there and I need some help wrangling it to prep it for grilling as our lunch.
I bombarded him with weird, as is my specialty.
| 942 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:48:30am |
Cheney said Obama "totally misread the results of the last election."
"He really believed he had some kind of a mandate to take the country in a radical direction ... healthcare policy, cap and trade, economic policies, size of the government, the counterterrorism policy, and I think he’s been proven wrong on virtually every point," Cheney said.
The former vice president said that recent Republican wins in Massachusetts, Virginia and New Jersey indicate "we’re beginning to see the ramification of that now."
[Link: thehill.com...]
| 943 |
Kragar Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:49:34am |
re: #936 badger1970
Yes, moving things around with the force compares with a planet destroyer. //
-courtesy of Rifftrax
My favorite all time Star Wars RPG character was an alien who had absolutely no force sensitivity whatsoever, but who none the less considered himself a jedi due to his high initmidation skill.
"These are not the droids you are looking for, puny human."
| 944 |
The Sanity Inspector Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:50:01am |
re: #912 Hengineer
In living memory, anyway.
As a failed President first and an international humanitarian second, he was Herbert Hoover in reverse.
| 945 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:50:48am |
re: #943 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I started thinking about Dr. Who's probably reaction to the Jedi once. I'd love to see that. Jedi so need a good taking-the-piss-of by the good Doctor.
| 947 |
Kragar Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:52:48am |
re: #945 Obdicut
I started thinking about Dr. Who's probably reaction to the Jedi once. I'd love to see that. Jedi so need a good taking-the-piss-of by the good Doctor.
Just started watching the new Dr. Who on Netflix. The Dr wouldn't put up with their crap.
| 948 |
The Sanity Inspector Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:53:22am |
re: #930 MandyManners
I tried to up-ding you but the wheel thingy's going round and round.
I feel ya...
| 949 |
Hengineer Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:54:21am |
alright gonna head off to a new bar, prob without wifi
have a good one, everyone!
| 950 |
Varek Raith Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:54:40am |
re: #947 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Just started watching the new Dr. Who on Netflix. The Dr wouldn't put up with their crap.
Neither does HK-47.
"Answer: Select grenades, sonic screamers, cluster rockets, and plasma charges. Mines are also effective, since many Jedi will run to meet you in hand to hand combat. Silly Jedi."
| 951 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:54:42am |
| 952 |
lawhawk Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:55:09am |
OT:
NJ Senator Frank Lautenberg has been diagnosed with stomach cancer. He had fallen a few days ago at his home and taken to a hospital where he was treated, and apparently found that he had some kind of ulcer - the blood loss caused him to fall:
Lautenberg took ill Monday while at home in Cliffside Park. He fell down and phoned his doctor and an ambulance. The senator directed the ambulance to transport him to Manhattan for treatment at Mount Sinai Medical Center, where he has been hospitalized ever since. Lautenberg never lost consciousness, his aides said.Doctors quickly determined that Lautenberg had fallen due to blood loss from a bleeding ulcer. The bleeding was stopped during an endoscopy. Additional pathology tests revealed the ulcer was caused by a b-cell lymphoma of the stomach.
I wish him and his family well. It doesn't sound like he's going to miss much time in Congress, or that this will somehow prevent him from completing his term in office.
| 953 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:55:31am |
| 954 |
DaddyG Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:56:50am |
Outsourcing isn't a panacea. You still have to pay for the oversight of the work and putting geographical and cultural distance between the client and the service provider is fought with peril. The best reason to outsource is if someone has a competency or resource you lack.
Having said that the number of above average intelligence Indians outnumber the entire US population (think about it).
| 955 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:57:39am |
re: #954 DaddyG
Outsourcing isn't a panacea. You still have to pay for the oversight of the work and putting geographical and cultural distance between the client and the service provider is fought with peril. The best reason to outsource is if someone has a competency or resource you lack.
Having said that the number of above average intelligence Indians outnumber the entire US population (think about it).
That was my point above.
| 956 |
cliffster Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:57:43am |
re: #953 MandyManners
Love the song. Whatever happened to them?
I saw them in concert a few years back. It was in a nice place, expensive tickets, etc. They are definitely playing the "we are old school and you should feel special to be hearing us" card.
| 957 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:58:18am |
re: #952 lawhawk
OT:
NJ Senator Frank Lautenberg has been diagnosed with stomach cancer. He had fallen a few days ago at his home and taken to a hospital where he was treated, and apparently found that he had some kind of ulcer - the blood loss caused him to fall:
I wish him and his family well. It doesn't sound like he's going to miss much time in Congress, or that this will somehow prevent him from completing his term in office.
He's 86 and has stomach cancer?
| 959 |
The Sanity Inspector Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:58:46am |
re: #953 MandyManners
Love the song. Whatever happened to them?
Kicking around Europe, last I heard, ages ago.
| 960 |
Kragar Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:58:47am |
re: #950 Varek Raith
My character's solution to pesky Jedi problems was a flame thrower, a flechette launcher and a racial ability to regenerate and reattach severed limbs. Plus he was an 8' tall humanoid Grizzly bear. Ah, alien rules for the old Star Wars RPG were awesome.
| 961 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:58:53am |
re: #953 MandyManners
Love the song. Whatever happened to them?
Benjamin Orr - often the lead singer, died years ago.
| 962 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:58:57am |
re: #946 badger1970
Oh, they'd all be so good. Hard to pick, really. Maybe one of the more modern angry ones, so that he could get all upset at them for the way they meddle in people's minds. Be fun to see the doctor berating a Jedi for lack of ethics.
| 963 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:58:57am |
re: #956 cliffster
I saw them in concert a few years back. It was in a nice place, expensive tickets, etc. They are definitely playing the "we are old school and you should feel special to be hearing us" card.
Well, didja'?
| 964 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:59:22am |
| 965 |
DaddyG Fri, Feb 19, 2010 9:59:35am |
re: #955 Walter L. Newton
That was my point above.
IE is killing my hamsters. I keep responding to discussions 50 posts later.
| 966 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 10:00:05am |
re: #961 Stanley Sea
Benjamin Orr - often the lead singer, died years ago.
The bushy-headed guy in No. 948?
| 967 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 19, 2010 10:00:34am |
re: #965 DaddyG
IE is killing my hamsters. I keep responding to discussions 50 posts later.
why use it?...makes no sense to me
| 968 |
MandyManners Fri, Feb 19, 2010 10:00:35am |
Gonna' go chop some onions for my parmigiana.
| 969 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Feb 19, 2010 10:00:55am |
re: #952 lawhawk
OT:
NJ Senator Frank Lautenberg has been diagnosed with stomach cancer. He had fallen a few days ago at his home and taken to a hospital where he was treated, and apparently found that he had some kind of ulcer - the blood loss caused him to fall:I wish him and his family well. It doesn't sound like he's going to miss much time in Congress, or that this will somehow prevent him from completing his term in office.
Its likely still a local tumor. If it is just local, it can be simply cut out.
| 970 |
albusteve Fri, Feb 19, 2010 10:01:30am |
| 971 |
lawhawk Fri, Feb 19, 2010 10:01:53am |
re: #969 Dark_Falcon
Looks like they're treating it with chemo.
| 972 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Fri, Feb 19, 2010 10:02:24am |
re: #966 MandyManners
The bushy-headed guy in No. 948?
He sang "Just what I needed" and many others for the Cars. Everyone just assumed Ric Ocasik (sp?) sang all the songs. He didn't.
I loved The Cars.
| 973 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Fri, Feb 19, 2010 10:02:39am |
re: #971 lawhawk
Looks like they're treating it with chemo.
Could be in a tough spot to do surgery. A sad day indeed.
| 974 |
DaddyG Fri, Feb 19, 2010 10:03:02am |
re: #962 Obdicut
Oh, they'd all be so good. Hard to pick, really. Maybe one of the more modern angry ones, so that he could get all upset at them for the way they meddle in people's minds. Be fun to see the doctor berating a Jedi for lack of ethics.
The Machine intelligences in Ian M Banks Culture novels referred to one of their own as a MeatF---er because he broke the unspoken rule not to try to read humanoids minds.
| 975 |
DaddyG Fri, Feb 19, 2010 10:04:38am |
re: #967 albusteve
why use it?...makes no sense to me
Its bad enough I blog during lunch. I hate to draw attention to myself by loading shareware.
| 976 |
Obdicut Fri, Feb 19, 2010 10:04:46am |
re: #974 DaddyG
Ah, the good old Grey Area. A great character.
| 977 |
RogueOne Fri, Feb 19, 2010 10:06:00am |
re: #911 Mad Al-Jaffee
The Onion sure was quick with this one:
"Just keep my head down and hit that with all the force I can muster. I welcome the challenge."
HA!
| 978 |
DaddyG Fri, Feb 19, 2010 10:06:34am |
re: #976 Obdicut
Ah, the good old Grey Area. A great character.
I just finished Consdier Phlebas - need to pick up Matter next.
| 980 |
DaddyG Fri, Feb 19, 2010 10:11:35am |
re: #979 Obdicut
Have you read Feersum Enjinn?
Nope - I only discovered Ian recently (Dark Background) and I shop at a used bookstore. Is it worth retail?
...next thread...
| 982 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Feb 19, 2010 10:27:17am |
re: #981 webevintage
That troll is no fun...
Yeah, it just sits there spewing. It won't flounce on cue, and I'm hungry.
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