Rachel Maddow has been doing some excellent investigative work looking into the secretive religious-political group known as “The Family,” and their connections to the “C Street House” where anti-choice health care opponent Rep. Bart Stupak lived until very recently.
1 |
bratwurst Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:51:52pm |
Maddow?!?! ARRRRRGH! GAY CHRISTIAN-HATING LEFTIST!
/ (saving someone the trouble downthread)
| 2 |
brookly red Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:51:57pm |
I guess "The Family" means something else in these parts...
| 3 |
darthstar Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:52:52pm |
To find out more about "The Family", read Sharlett's piece in Harper's from 2003...
It's a great read, and was published when he was still writing his book on The Family.
| 5 |
zora Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:53:25pm |
i am glad to hear that stupak has a primary challenger.
[Link: crooksandliars.com...]
| 6 |
bratwurst Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:54:32pm |
re: #2 brookly red
I guess "The Family" means something else in these parts...
Guess you haven't been paying attention for the past few months.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
| 7 |
simoom Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:54:43pm |
From Steve Bowman, Executive Editor ESPNOutdoors.com:
[Link: sports.espn.go.com...]
Firestorms get started in a variety of ways, especially on politicized issues.ESPNOutdoors.com inadvertently contributed to a flare-up Tuesday when we posted the latest article in a series of stories on President Barack Obama's newly created Ocean Policy Task Force, a column written by Robert Montgomery, a conservation writer for BASS since 1985. Regrettably, we made several errors in the editing and presentation of this installment. Though our series has included numerous news stories on the topic, this was not one of them -- it was an opinion piece, and should have been clearly labeled as commentary.
...
This series started in October and has included several updates on how the creation of the task force and its actions could impact recreational anglers. ESPNOutdoors.com should have made it clear to all readers that this was part of a larger series, and -- even though this was Montgomery's opinion, and those of the sources quoted in the column -- we should have taken more care to fairly represent opposing arguments.
...
Any confusion on that part rests entirely on my shoulders as the executive editor of this site.We have appended the original column to note that it was in fact a commentary, and we will institute more rigorous editing safeguards in order to prevent such issues in the future.
Shorter Steve Bowman, "oops... did we do that?"
Anyway, good luck unringing that bell with a next-to-zero-visibility mea culpa.
| 8 |
Cato the Elder Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:54:54pm |
"Bart Stupak" sounds like a cartoon character's name.
| 9 |
recusancy Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:55:02pm |
re: #3 darthstar
To find out more about "The Family", read Sharlett's piece in Harper's from 2003...
It's a great read, and was published when he was still writing his book on The Family.
Here's his book: [Link: www.amazon.com...]
| 10 |
iceweasel Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:55:39pm |
I've posted this before, but it bears repeating:
Arguably the single biggest threat to health care reform is Rep. Bart Stupak (D-Mich.) and his dozen Democratic allies, who are threatening to kill the legislation over indirect, circuitous funding of abortion.
Efforts to work with Stupak are ongoing, but it's worth emphasizing a relevant detail: Stupak is just wrong about the underlying policy dispute. Whether he knows he's wrong, and he's just hoping to kill health care reform, is unclear. But the accuracy of Stupak's claims aren't in dispute: the facts aren't on his side.
| 11 |
wrenchwench Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:58:08pm |
re: #3 darthstar
To find out more about "The Family", read Sharlett's piece in Harper's from 2003...
It's a great read, and was published when he was still writing his book on The Family.
It's nice to have an additional source on the matter. Sharlet was the only one I've seen before this.
| 12 |
Aceofwhat? Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:58:16pm |
Argh. I'm pretty sure that an "affuteuse de taillant" and an "affuteuse de foret" are variations on a theme, but i'm not gonna hear back from this dumb customer tonight. I have a weird job. goin home...bbl all
| 13 |
brookly red Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:58:17pm |
I guess there are a lot of conflicting agendas concerning this bill... seems like a good reason to kill it and start over to me.
| 14 |
darthstar Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:00:22pm |
| 15 |
Varek Raith Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:00:36pm |
re: #13 brookly red
I guess there are a lot of conflicting agendas concerning this bill... seems like a good reason to kill it and start over to me.
Translation - The status quo will do.
Because that's what 'starting over' will accomplish.
| 17 |
recusancy Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:01:17pm |
| 18 |
brookly red Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:01:27pm |
re: #13 brookly red
I guess there are a lot of conflicting agendas concerning this bill... seems like a good reason to kill it and start over to me.
so folks, exactly what in this bill do you find good? go on educate me.
| 19 |
iceweasel Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:01:32pm |
OT, but this is kind of hilarious:
Beck listened to "This Land Is Your Land" and it all "just clicked"
| 20 |
Jaerik Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:02:30pm |
The Hyde Amendment, the much talked-about policy that prevents federal dollars going to fund abortions, is not actually a law. It's what's called a rider, and it's passed basically as a matter of course every year, attached to the budget, for the past decades.
However, Stupak and the Catholic Bishops (and The Family) don't like this because all it would take for federal funds to go towards abortion coverage would be a failure to include the Hyde Amendment one year. They would rather the Hyde Amendment become permanently ensconced as law, and this health care bill is a chance for them to do so.
Unfortunately, they're overreached: the Stupak Amendment to the health care bill is significantly wider-reaching and restrictive than the Hyde Amendment before it. But this is a line in the sand that the aforementioned parties feel they can use to win a war that's been stalemated for decades, and their threats to take health care hostage did actually work in the House -- it just didn't pass the Senate.
| 21 |
Lidane Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:03:00pm |
re: #13 brookly red
I guess there are a lot of conflicting agendas concerning every bill in Congress... seems like a good reason to kill them all and do nothing.
FTFY, since it's pretty much what your post amounts to.
There will *always* be conflicting agendas in Congress. That is no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Stupak is wrong, but there IS a dire need for some sort of health care reform. Killing it all or starting over would amount to nothing happening at all. Again.
| 22 |
darthstar Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:03:45pm |
re: #18 brookly red
so folks, exactly what in this bill do you find good? go on educate me.
Health care for 30 million currently uninsured Americans. I realize you're position on Health Care Reform is the equivalent of that of a global warming denier, so there really isn't any point in trying to convince you otherwise, but there you have it. Reason enough for me to support the legislation.
| 23 |
A Man for all Seasons Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:03:47pm |
Today's insight:
Thesaurus:
A dinosaur with a big vocabulary
| 24 |
brookly red Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:04:46pm |
re: #16 Obdicut
How does that follow, exactly?
like this... the abortion thing may or may not be an issue, the private insurance thing may or may not be an issue, single payer may or may not be an issue, cost, well cost is always an issue... there is so much grey area here why not start anew with total transparency?
| 25 |
Gus Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:05:11pm |
re: #19 iceweasel
OT, but this is kind of hilarious:
Beck listened to "This Land Is Your Land" and it all "just clicked"
He's a sick man.
Funny the contrast after watching someone of the caliber of Rachel Maddow and then seeing Glenn Beck. Beck is low-rent paranoid misanthrope.
| 26 |
Stanghazi Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:05:13pm |
re: #19 iceweasel
OT, but this is kind of hilarious:
Beck listened to "This Land Is Your Land" and it all "just clicked"
He's dissing "This Land Is Your Land"
"Look up the dates when this stupid song was written"
Oooh Boy.
| 27 |
RogueOne Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:06:45pm |
re: #18 brookly red
so folks, exactly what in this bill do you find good? go on educate me.
I'm very pro-business and since this whole thing is a direct payoff to insurance companies, unionized hospital workers, and big pharma I support this bill.
| 28 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:06:52pm |
re: #24 brookly red
Again, I see no connection between "these things might be problems" and 'let's start over'.
Can you explain?
| 29 |
Lidane Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:07:11pm |
re: #24 brookly red
there is so much grey area here why not start anew with total transparency?
Because "starting over" amounts to doing nothing. That's why.
| 30 |
brookly red Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:07:28pm |
re: #27 RogueOne
I'm very pro-business and since this whole thing is a direct payoff to insurance companies, unionized hospital workers, and big pharma I support this bill.
I respect your honesty.
| 31 |
Varek Raith Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:07:37pm |
re: #29 Lidane
Because "starting over" amounts to doing nothing. That's why.
That's the point, I believe...
| 33 |
Lidane Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:09:11pm |
| 34 |
brookly red Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:09:15pm |
re: #28 Obdicut
Again, I see no connection between "these things might be problems" and 'let's start over'.
Can you explain?
well if this bill is so great there will be no problem getting the votes to pass it so my opinion is not relevant :)
| 35 |
Lidane Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:10:35pm |
re: #34 brookly red
Find one person who says that the bill is perfect. Just one.
Passing a flawed bill is better than not passing anything at all.
| 36 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:11:06pm |
re: #34 brookly red
So you have no interest in actually explaining your position?
| 37 |
SixDegrees Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:11:11pm |
I've asked this before, but have never received an answer: is there any source of information about "The Family" that isn't directly traceable to Jeff Sharlet, who recently published a book on the topic? Every reference I've checked that seemed to be independent has ultimately traced directly back to Sharlet as the source of their information.
And I wasn't too impressed with Sharlet during a long Fresh Air interview he gave while flogging his book. None of his sources were named, how he came by his information wasn't revealed, and nothing other than Sharlet's say-so was offered in support of his claims.
There's no doubt that the organization referred to exists, and has been around for a very long time. It does strike me as odd, though, that an organization with as many long tentacles as Sharlet claims has gone completely unnoticed by anyone for all this time.
Hence my question. Has anyone been able to corroborate Sharlet's claims independently? 'Cause to be frank, they're starting to sound just a little too oogey-boogey to me, just a little too much like The daVinci Code, to be true. But I'd love to hear of some other investigator who has gone and turned up anything like what Sharlet claims on their own.
Until then, remianing skeptical of all Family claims.
| 38 |
avanti Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:11:36pm |
That was such a interesting video to me, because there is a similar home here in Annapolis for Naval Academy evangelical graduates. If they are part of a prayer group ran by senior officers and alumni, they get rent free rooms for them and a spouse upon graduation and waiting orders. I know of no such arrangement for those less worthy.
| 39 |
Varek Raith Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:11:42pm |
re: #34 brookly red
well if this bill is so great there will be no problem getting the votes to pass it so my opinion is not relevant :)
So, do you think the Bush tax cuts should've been redone? Seeing as it took the VP to break the tie... If it were so great and all...
;)
| 40 |
brookly red Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:13:37pm |
re: #36 Obdicut
So you have no interest in actually explaining your position?
I already did... there is too much wrong with the bill. Now I could support reform in principal, but let's be honest we have know idea what is even in the bill.
| 42 |
iceweasel Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:14:42pm |
re: #40 brookly red
I already did... there is too much wrong with the bill. Now I could support reform in principal, but let's be honest we have know idea what is even in the bill.
Sure we do.
[Link: wonkroom.thinkprogress.org...]
Let's be honest. You have no idea what you're talking about.
| 43 |
brookly red Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:15:37pm |
re: #39 Varek Raith
So, do you think the Bush tax cuts should've been redone? Seeing as it took the VP to break the tie... If it were so great and all...
;)
That did not take passing a bill for the sake of passing something & then promising to come back and clean it up later... that is BS. Write a final bill and give it an up or down vote.
| 44 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:17:25pm |
re: #25 Gus 802
Beck is low-rent paranoid misanthrope.
I would like to nominate that for a rotating title.
| 45 |
brookly red Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:18:03pm |
re: #42 iceweasel
Sure we do.
[Link: wonkroom.thinkprogress.org...]
Let's be honest. You have no idea what you're talking about.
your right I don't, and neither do, you or anyone else cause no one has read all 2,700 pages.
| 47 |
Soap_Man Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:19:01pm |
re: #43 brookly red
That did not take passing a bill for the sake of passing something & then promising to come back and clean it up later... that is BS. Write a final bill and give it an up or down vote.
Yeah, but how many things are "final"? How often do we need to tweak legislation passed years before to make it better or fix mistakes? How often do we need numerous bills passed over many years just to address one large issue? I would be more concerned if they said this is the final bill and once it's passed they will wipe their hands of it and never touch it again.
| 48 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:19:35pm |
re: #40 brookly red
I know a lot of things that are in the bill. We don't have 'no idea'. You seem like you just, well, are against the bill, and your opposition doesn't seem very substantial.
re: #43 brookly red
Oh great, so you're really against all the GOP obstructionism on it? If it's an up-or-down vote you want, we could have had that ages ago-- if the GOP wasn't filibustering.
| 49 |
brookly red Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:20:19pm |
re: #47 Soap_Man
Yeah, but how many things are "final"? How often do we need to tweak legislation passed years before to make it better or fix mistakes? How often do we need numerous bills passed over many years just to address one large issue? I would be more concerned if they said this is the final bill and once it's passed they will wipe their hands of it and never touch it again.
would you sign a contract that is not final?
| 50 |
SixDegrees Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:20:29pm |
re: #41 RogueOne
All she was missing was a chalkboard and breaking down in tears and she could have the highest rated show on cable.
Iceweasel in: re: #10 iceweasel
has the better argument. Instead of arguing about where got his ideas why don't we argue about his stated views and the actual bill.
Agree on both counts. To my eyes and ears, The Family has become a convenient boogey man whose bona fides are thin, at best. And if they are, indeed, some uber-powerful group of invisible overlords who wield powers beyond our ken, well, we're never going to find out about them anyway.
| 51 |
avanti Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:20:39pm |
re: #26 Stanley Sea
He's dissing "This Land Is Your Land"
"Look up the dates when this stupid song was written"
Oooh Boy.
Well, it was written by Woody Guthrie, a leftie and some verses had social themes. The often omitted verses upset Beck..
"Guthrie was tired of the radio overplaying Irving Berlin's "God Bless America". He thought the lyrics were unrealistic and complacent.[22] Partly inspired by his experiences during a cross-country trip and his distaste for God Bless America, he penned his most famous song, "This Land Is Your Land", in February 1940; it was subtitled "God Blessed America." The melody is based on the gospel song "Oh My Loving Brother", best-known as "Little Darling, Pal of Mine", sung by the country group The Carter Family. Guthrie signed the manuscript with the comment "All you can write is what you see, Woody G., N.Y., N.Y., N.Y.".[23] He protested against class inequality in the final verses:
In the squares of the city, In the shadow of a steeple;
By the relief office, I'd seen my people.
As they stood there hungry, I stood there asking,
Is this land made for you and me?
As I went walking, I saw a sign there,
And on the sign there, It said "no trespassing." [In another version, the sign reads "Private Property"]
But on the other side, it didn't say nothing!
That side was made for you and me. "
| 52 |
brookly red Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:22:52pm |
re: #48 Obdicut
I know a lot of things that are in the bill. We don't have 'no idea'. You seem like you just, well, are against the bill, and your opposition doesn't seem very substantial.
re: #43 brookly red
Oh great, so you're really against all the GOP obstructionism on it? If it's an up-or-down vote you want, we could have had that ages ago-- if the GOP wasn't filibustering.
no I support the obstructionism on both parties parts... the bill sucks. And btw Stupack is a dem...
| 53 |
Soap_Man Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:23:29pm |
re: #49 brookly red
would you sign a contract that is not final?
That's completely different. Any bill passed can be revoked or changed later on. That's not true with a contract.
But to answer your question, I would sign an incomplete contract (as long as I saw it as favorable) if I had the legal right to tear it up whenever I please. If I couldn't, then I wouldn't. But that's not what we are talking about right now. Legislation isn't carved in stone. Hell, we can even change the constitution if there is enough support to do so.
| 54 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:23:45pm |
re: #50 SixDegrees
Agree on both counts. To my eyes and ears, The Family has become a convenient boogey man whose bona fides are thin, at best. And if they are, indeed, some uber-powerful group of invisible overlords who wield powers beyond our ken, well, we're never going to find out about them anyway.
Interesting, that Harpers article linked to above certainly misses the fact that a good number of Democrats have also been associated with this group at one time or another...
The following politicians are among those who have publicly acknowledged attending prayer groups or are documented as
having done so:[9]
Secretary of State and former Senator Hillary Clinton (D-N.Y.)
Senator Sam Brownback (R-Kan.)
Senator Tom Coburn (R-Ok.)
Senator John Ensign (R-Nev.)
Senator Mike Enzi (R-Wyo.)
Senator Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa)
Senator Jim Inhofe (R-Ok.)
Senator Bill Nelson (D-Fla.)
Senator Mark Pryor (D-Ark.)
Representative Randy Forbes (R-Va.)
Representative Mike McIntyre (D-N.C.)
Representative Joe Pitts (R-Pa.)
Representative Bart Stupak (D-Mich.)
Representative Zach Wamp (R-Tenn.)
Representative Frank Wolf (R-Va.)
former Senator and Vice President Al Gore (D-Tn.)
former Senator Dan Coats (R-Ind.)
former Senator Don Nickles (R-Ok.)
former Senator Everett Dirksen (R-Il.)
former Senator Jennings Randolph (D-W.V.)
former Senator John Glenn (D-Ohio)
former Senator Ted Kennedy (D-Ma.)
former Representative Steve Largent (R-Ok.)
former Representative Chip Pickering (R-Miss.)
former Representative Tom Lantos (D-Ca.)
Maine Governor and former Representative John Baldacci (D-Me.)
South Carolina Governor and former Representative Mark Sanford (R-S.C.)
former Ambassador and Representative Tony P. Hall (R-Ohio)
former Ambassador and Representative Mark Siljander (R-Mich.)
former Ambassador and Representative Andrew Young (D-Ga.)
former Ambassador and Representative Richard "Dick" Swett (D-N.H.)
former Attorney General Edwin Meese (R)
former Attorney General and Senator John Ashcroft (R-Mo.)
former Secretary of State, Secretary of the Treasury and Reagan Chief of Staff James A. Baker, III (R)
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
| 55 |
Soap_Man Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:26:24pm |
re: #53 Soap_Man
That's completely different. Any bill passed can be revoked or changed later on. That's not true with a contract.
But to answer your question, I would sign an incomplete contract (as long as I saw it as favorable) if I had the legal right to tear it up whenever I please. If I couldn't, then I wouldn't. But that's not what we are talking about right now. Legislation isn't carved in stone. Hell, we can even
changeamend the constitution if there is enough support to do so.
Fixed my own phrasing.
| 56 |
iceweasel Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:28:27pm |
re: #45 brookly red
your right I don't, and neither do, you or anyone else cause no one has read all 2,700 pages.
Actually, I've read the whole House Bill, and unlike you, I know a bit about what's in the various proposals.
You, on the other hand, know nothing and like it that way. That's why it's a complete waste of time to discuss it with you. I can't do the reading for you, you know, and you don't bother to look at links.
| 57 |
brookly red Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:29:44pm |
re: #56 iceweasel
Actually, I've read the whole House Bill, and unlike you, I know a bit about what's in the various proposals.
You, on the other hand, know nothing and like it that way. That's why it's a complete waste of time to discuss it with you. I can't do the reading for you, you know, and you don't bother to look at links.
can't you just skip the BS and get right to the "off with his head" part?
| 58 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:30:11pm |
re: #54 Walter L. Newton
"Democrat" does not automatically equal "left wing," and The Family is quite bipartisan -- as long as the members are into the religious fanatic agenda.
| 59 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:30:14pm |
re: #19 iceweasel
OT, but this is kind of hilarious:
Beck listened to "This Land Is Your Land" and it all "just clicked"
Next week: "Stop the Abraham Lincoln Brigade".
| 60 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:30:21pm |
re: #52 brookly red
So you don't actually want things to have up or down votes, even though you just said you wanted an up or down vote?
How do you manage that?
| 61 |
iceweasel Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:30:26pm |
re: #57 brookly red
can't you just skip the BS and get right to the "off with his head" part?
I'll be going back to ignoring you now, ignorant troll.
| 62 |
brookly red Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:31:27pm |
re: #61 iceweasel
I'll be going back to ignoring you now, ignorant troll.
so God does answer my prayers after all.
| 63 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:32:03pm |
re: #50 SixDegrees
Agree on both counts. To my eyes and ears, The Family has become a convenient boogey man whose bona fides are thin, at best. And if they are, indeed, some uber-powerful group of invisible overlords who wield powers beyond our ken, well, we're never going to find out about them anyway.
Unlike you, apparently, I've actually read Jeff Sharlett's book, and before reflexively dismissing this as a "boogey man" you might want to actually learn something about them. This group is highly influential in Washington DC.
The Family: The Secret Fundamentalism at the Heart of American Power.
| 64 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:33:03pm |
re: #1 bratwurst
Maddow?!?! ARRRGH! GAY CHRISTIAN-HATING LEFTIST!
/ (saving someone the trouble downthread)
Buzzsawmonkey said something about Maddow that really, really pissed me off. I don't recall what it was.
| 65 |
iceweasel Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:34:21pm |
re: #64 SanFranciscoZionist
Buzzsawmonkey said something about Maddow that really, really pissed me off. I don't recall what it was.
He said many things about her. The one I recall was that he refused to look at a link involving her because he didn't care what 'that sniggering lesbian' had to say.
Ol Mullah Buzzsaw. What a guy.
| 66 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:34:53pm |
re: #58 Charles
"Democrat" does not automatically equal "left wing," and The Family is quite bipartisan -- as long as the members are into the religious fanatic agenda.
Ted Kennedy was into the "religious fanatic agenda?"
| 67 |
Kruk Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:34:56pm |
re: #50 SixDegrees
Agree on both counts. To my eyes and ears, The Family has become a convenient boogey man whose bona fides are thin, at best. And if they are, indeed, some uber-powerful group of invisible overlords who wield powers beyond our ken, well, we're never going to find out about them anyway.
So, kinda like ACORN, then?
| 68 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:35:47pm |
re: #45 brookly red
your right I don't, and neither do, you or anyone else cause no one has read all 2,700 pages.
It's been MONTHS. Surely by now someone has read all 2700 pages.
| 69 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:36:27pm |
re: #66 Walter L. Newton
Ted Kennedy was into the "religious fanatic agenda?"
Ted Kennedy was not a member of The Family. If you would drop the defensive attitude, you'd realize that the fact that even Ted Kennedy attended prayer meetings run by the group is a perfect illustration of how much power they wield in Washington.
| 70 |
Stanghazi Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:36:40pm |
re: #64 SanFranciscoZionist
Buzzsawmonkey said something about Maddow that really, really pissed me off. I don't recall what it was.
I am SICK of the folks who cannot say Rachel Maddow without bringing up her personal life. Imagine trying to gain credibility and make a living, and all people mention is your freaking personal life. UGH.
| 71 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:38:22pm |
re: #65 iceweasel
He said many things about her. The one I recall was that he refused to look at a link involving her because he didn't care what 'that sniggering lesbian' had to say.
Ol Mullah Buzzsaw. What a guy.
Oh yeah. 'Sniggering lesbian'. That was it. I was deeply peeved.
I have never actually seen Rachel Maddow speak, although my father has a mad crush on her.
| 72 |
brookly red Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:38:22pm |
re: #68 SanFranciscoZionist
It's been MONTHS. Surely by now someone has read all 2700 pages.
well a lot of people claim to have... even right here. so I guess let there be a vote...
| 73 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:38:24pm |
re: #66 Walter L. Newton
Ted Kennedy was into the "religious fanatic agenda?"
These people sponsor the national Prayer Breakfasts, which all non-suicidal DC pols attend. There is probably a surface face and a private face to the group.
| 74 |
iceweasel Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:38:30pm |
re: #70 Stanley Sea
I am SICK of the folks who cannot say Rachel Maddow without bringing up her personal life. Imagine trying to gain credibility and make a living, and all people mention is your freaking personal life. UGH.
The poster in question was and is a raving homophobe.
| 75 |
SixDegrees Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:39:16pm |
re: #63 Charles
Unlike you, apparently, I've actually read Jeff Sharlett's book, and before reflexively dismissing this as a "boogey man" you might want to actually learn something about them. This group is highly influential in Washington DC.
The Family: The Secret Fundamentalism at the Heart of American Power.
And unfortunately, in my view, Jeff Sharlett seems to be the sole source of information about them. As noted, it strikes me as odd that a group so old and influential has apparently completely escaped everyone's notice all these decades, and I'd be a lot more comfortable with what he has to say if there were an independent source of confirmation. I'm not "reflexively dismissing" anything, but I do have a long-standing aversion to sole-source material like this.
| 76 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:39:18pm |
re: #70 Stanley Sea
I am SICK of the folks who cannot say Rachel Maddow without bringing up her personal life. Imagine trying to gain credibility and make a living, and all people mention is your freaking personal life. UGH.
Is her personal life so exciting? I never see pictures of her in those tabloid magazines with starlets or anything.
| 77 |
Randall Gross Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:39:49pm |
| 78 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:40:24pm |
re: #69 Charles
That FriedLizard guy is kind of weird.
I'd like to note that while I thought that LGF was over the top in the past in the way it approached radical Islam, I was able to refrain from creating a stalker blog about it, and to not obsess about it years later. I'm glad that you changed your moderation style-- that's pretty much my whole feelings on the subject.
I'm not sure why he can't let go.
| 79 |
Jimmah Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:40:31pm |
re: #19 iceweasel
OT, but this is kind of hilarious:
Beck listened to "This Land Is Your Land" and it all "just clicked"
lol. It's like he wants to cleanse American culture of all possible 'leftisms' and 'proggyisms'. Can you imagine what would be left after he'd removed everything he felt was politically unwholesome?
| 80 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:41:19pm |
re: #75 SixDegrees
And unfortunately, in my view, Jeff Sharlett seems to be the sole source of information about them. As noted, it strikes me as odd that a group so old and influential has apparently completely escaped everyone's notice all these decades, and I'd be a lot more comfortable with what he has to say if there were an independent source of confirmation. I'm not "reflexively dismissing" anything, but I do have a long-standing aversion to sole-source material like this.
So you haven't even glanced at the book, yet feel perfectly comfortable dismissing it out of hand? Gotcha.
| 81 |
iceweasel Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:43:26pm |
re: #79 Jimmah
lol. It's like he wants to cleanse American culture of all possible 'leftisms' and 'proggyisms'. Can you imagine what would be left after he'd removed everything he felt was politically unwholesome?
I think I need a new avatar of one of the kitties wearing some bling that says Prog 4 Life.
| 82 |
Stanghazi Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:43:27pm |
re: #71 SanFranciscoZionist
Oh yeah. 'Sniggering lesbian'. That was it. I was deeply peeved.
I have never actually seen Rachel Maddow speak, although my father has a mad crush on her.
Cool Dad you have.
| 83 |
Gus Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:43:39pm |
re: #19 iceweasel
OT, but this is kind of hilarious:
Beck listened to "This Land Is Your Land" and it all "just clicked"
Was thinking. That idiot, Beck, better not listen to "Don't Fence Me In."
Give me land, lots of land, under starry skies above
Don't fence me in
Let me ride thru the wide-open country that I love
Don't fence me in
Let me be by myself in the evening breeze
Listen to the murmur of the cottonwood trees
Send me off forever, but I ask you please
Don't fence me in
Don't fence me in
Give me land and no fences!
Fences and no trespassing signs are common song writing themes.
| 84 |
Soap_Man Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:44:00pm |
re: #75 SixDegrees
And unfortunately, in my view, Jeff Sharlett seems to be the sole source of information about them. As noted, it strikes me as odd that a group so old and influential has apparently completely escaped everyone's notice all these decades, and I'd be a lot more comfortable with what he has to say if there were an independent source of confirmation. I'm not "reflexively dismissing" anything, but I do have a long-standing aversion to sole-source material like this.
re: #80 Charles
So you haven't even glanced at the book, yet feel perfectly comfortable dismissing it out of hand? Gotcha.
I haven't read it, but how did he source his info in the book? Because if he did a good job backing up his info (and it's not just hearsay, first-hand accounts and opinion with nothing else), he isn't a "single source." He's just the first person to effectively compile the information.
| 85 |
iceweasel Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:45:17pm |
re: #83 Gus 802
Was thinking. That idiot, Beck, better not listen to "Don't Fence Me In."
Give me land, lots of land, under starry skies above
Don't fence me in
Let me ride thru the wide-open country that I love
Don't fence me in
Let me be by myself in the evening breeze
Listen to the murmur of the cottonwood trees
Send me off forever, but I ask you please
Don't fence me in
Don't fence me inGive me land and no fences!
Fences and no trespassing signs are common song writing themes.
One suspects that Beck likes those other verses of This Land is Your Land...
Out in the country, far from a highway
There is this land here, and it is my way
Don't ever come here, or you'll be sorry
This land was made just for me
This land is my land, it isn't your land
I got a shotgun, and you don't got none
If you don't get off, I'll blow your head off
This land was made just for me
So keep away now, Don't ruin my day now
My property's private, you cannot buy it
Go find your own land, Just be a lone man
This land was made just for me
This land is my land, it isn't your land
I got a shotgun, and you don't got none
If you don't get off, I'll blow your head off
This land was made just for me
| 86 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:45:20pm |
re: #81 iceweasel
I think I need a new avatar of one of the kitties wearing some bling that says Prog 4 Life.
So you've come around have you? Serves you right for making me cross the Geh Weddin's line.
| 87 |
Randall Gross Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:45:27pm |
re: #75 SixDegrees
Their tax returns are sources of info about them. The deed of ownership is a source of info. Andrea Mitchell, Rachel Maddow are both sources of info.
The dodging you see from Sam Brownback and Todd Tiahrt when they are questioned about C st is a source of info.
etc. etc. etc.
| 88 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:45:44pm |
re: #84 Soap_Man
I haven't read it, but how did he source his info in the book? Because if he did a good job backing up his info (and it's not just hearsay, first-hand accounts and opinion with nothing else), he isn't a "single source." He's just the first person to effectively compile the information.
Sharlett actually joined the group and lived at the C Street townhouse for some time.
| 89 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:45:52pm |
re: #80 Charles
So you haven't even glanced at the book, yet feel perfectly comfortable dismissing it out of hand? Gotcha.
I read the Jeff Sharlett article in Harpers, and it has the same feel about it that all the Mason and Illuminati stuff has. If the book is anything like the article, I wouldn't be interested in the book.
| 90 |
Jimmah Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:46:15pm |
re: #74 iceweasel
The poster in question was and is a raving homophobe.
A raving homophobe, furthermore, who now rages frothily about the perverted evils of modern underwear, among other things.
| 91 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:47:07pm |
re: #78 Obdicut
That FriedLizard guy is kind of weird.
Ya think?
I'd like to note that while I thought that LGF was over the top in the past in the way it approached radical Islam, I was able to refrain from creating a stalker blog about it, and to not obsess about it years later. I'm glad that you changed your moderation style-- that's pretty much my whole feelings on the subject.
I'm not sure why he can't let go.
Parental issues.
| 92 |
Gus Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:47:24pm |
re: #85 iceweasel
One suspects that Beck likes those other verses of This Land is Your Land...
Out in the country, far from a highway
There is this land here, and it is my way
Don't ever come here, or you'll be sorry
This land was made just for meThis land is my land, it isn't your land
I got a shotgun, and you don't got none
If you don't get off, I'll blow your head off
This land was made just for meSo keep away now, Don't ruin my day now
My property's private, you cannot buy it
Go find your own land, Just be a lone man
This land was made just for meThis land is my land, it isn't your land
I got a shotgun, and you don't got none
If you don't get off, I'll blow your head off
This land was made just for me
Hah! Who wrote that Arlo Guthrie? ;) I heard he's gone Tea Party-Paulian.
| 93 |
SixDegrees Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:47:51pm |
re: #77 Thanos
Is Doug Coe in his own words good enough for you?
[Video]
Not really. Once again, this all traces directly back to Jeff Sharlett.
Not that I'm not denying the existence of the group. Only Sharlet's speculations about their activities.
| 94 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:47:54pm |
re: #90 Jimmah
A raving homophobe, furthermore, who now rages frothily about the perverted evils of modern underwear, among other things.
Devil's Gutchies.
| 95 |
Jimmah Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:47:59pm |
re: #81 iceweasel
I think I need a new avatar of one of the kitties wearing some bling that says Prog 4 Life.
Oh yes - in the Olde English 'gangsta' font of course :)
| 96 |
Kruk Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:48:04pm |
re: #90 Jimmah
A raving homophobe, furthermore, who now rages frothily about the perverted evils of modern underwear, among other things.
I'm kinda afraid to click on the link while at work. I've already looked up "snorkelling" today.
| 97 |
SixDegrees Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:48:19pm |
re: #80 Charles
So you haven't even glanced at the book, yet feel perfectly comfortable dismissing it out of hand? Gotcha.
Well, if that's the way you want it, never mind.
| 98 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:48:29pm |
re: #89 Walter L. Newton
I read the Jeff Sharlett article in Harpers, and it has the same feel about it that all the Mason and Illuminati stuff has.
That comparison is utterly laughable.
If the book is anything like the article, I wouldn't be interested in the book.
OK. Then you shouldn't expect your opinions about it to hold much credibility.
| 99 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:48:44pm |
| 100 |
Jimmah Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:49:43pm |
re: #91 Charles
Parental issues.
He didn't obsess about it until years later? What is he trying to say - that he is a restrained obsessive? I think maybe he should be, but that's another matter...
| 101 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:49:49pm |
re: #91 Charles
It's too bad. He's obviously a bright guy. I hate seeing wasted energy like that.
Oh well. Now I understand a bit more the acerbity and anger that you have towards the stalkers. They're kind of like the people disrupting the Town Halls, but with a creepier edge.
| 102 |
iceweasel Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:50:03pm |
re: #96 Kruk
I'm kinda afraid to click on the link while at work. I've already looked up "snorkelling" today.
It's safe! LGF link.
Here's the full rant on the whorishness of 'modern' underwear (also lgf link)
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
| 103 |
Randall Gross Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:50:10pm |
re: #93 SixDegrees
Not really. Once again, this all traces directly back to Jeff Sharlett.
Not that I'm not denying the existence of the group. Only Sharlet's speculations about their activities.
So direct quotes from the leader of the group mean nothing? I suspect you would not change your mind no matter how much evidence was offered. The long version of that speech he gave is out there on youtube along with other things if you are truly interested.
| 105 |
Uninformed Opinion Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:51:44pm |
I am interested to see where the lawsuit goes.
| 106 |
Gus Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:52:19pm |
re: #74 iceweasel
The poster in question was and is a raving homophobe.
Humanrightsophobe as well. He would always be kvetching about human rights. I remember once I pointed out some groups that he saw himself as being aligned with using the phrase and championing the cause of human right and he of course had to rationalize their use of human rights.
| 108 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:52:58pm |
re: #90 Jimmah
A raving homophobe, furthermore, who now rages frothily about the perverted evils of modern underwear, among other things.
Has he tried longjohns from LL Bean? Or the Mormon garments? I think they'll sell them to you on the Internet even if you're not a Mormon.
/I have no idea what his problem is, but I'm always willing to help with shopping ideas.
| 109 |
SixDegrees Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:53:18pm |
re: #87 Thanos
Their tax returns are sources of info about them. The deed of ownership is a source of info. Andrea Mitchell, Rachel Maddow are both sources of info.
The dodging you see from Sam Brownback and Todd Tiahrt when they are questioned about C st is a source of info.etc. etc. etc.
I'll note that Maddow never actually claims that the document shown is the deed to the property. Listen to what she says when it's introduced. And I've looked into Maddow's reports on this in the past; all of her information in those reports came directly from Sharlet's The Family.
Sorry, but Sharlet's presentation sounds more like a description of the Illuminati for my tastes.
| 110 |
iceweasel Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:53:39pm |
re: #106 Gus 802
Humanrightsophobe as well. He would always be kvetching about human rights. I remember once I pointed out some groups that he saw himself as being aligned with using the phrase and championing the cause of human right and he of course had to rationalize their use of human rights.
Human rights and social justice were also the Semantics of Satan and Socialism, IIRC.
| 111 |
Stanghazi Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:54:17pm |
| 112 |
Randall Gross Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:54:44pm |
There was a study released today regarding people who think that President Obama is a sekret muslim. They persist in that belief over time, no matter how much evidence is offered.re: #109 SixDegrees
I'll note that Maddow never actually claims that the document shown is the deed to the property. Listen to what she says when it's introduced. And I've looked into Maddow's reports on this in the past; all of her information in those reports came directly from Sharlet's The Family.
Sorry, but Sharlet's presentation sounds more like a description of the Illuminati for my tastes.
So are you making the claim that it's a forged document?
Prove it.
Look what exposing a fake doc did for Charles. Go for it dude.
| 113 |
SixDegrees Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:54:57pm |
BIAB. Something on my server just exploded.
| 114 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:55:11pm |
re: #98 Charles
OK. Then you shouldn't expect your opinions about it to hold much credibility.
Charles, I don't expect anything, I make comments, people respond back, works for me.
| 115 |
Gus Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:56:01pm |
[Rubs eyes.]
So, is this Sharlett Denialism or C-Street Denialism?
| 116 |
SixDegrees Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:56:36pm |
re: #112 Thanos
There was a study released today regarding people who think that President Obama is a sekret muslim. They persist in that belief over time, no matter how much evidence is offered.
So are you making the claim that it's a forged document?
Prove it.
Look what exposing a fake doc did for Charles. Go for it dude.
Actually, this demand constitutes a demand for a negative proof, an logical impossibility. It is the responsibility of those making positive claims to produce supporting proof.
| 117 |
Jimmah Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:56:54pm |
re: #102 iceweasel
It's safe! LGF link.
Here's the full rant on the whorishness of 'modern' underwear (also lgf link)
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
That was him just getting started...lol. A fuller rant about the the evils of the 60's and the Sodom and Gomorrah like decadence of modern America soon followed.
| 118 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:57:03pm |
re: #115 Gus 802
[Rubs eyes.]
So, is this Sharlett Denialism or C-Street Denialism?
By the way, for those who are sticklers for details, the name is spelt "Jeff Sharlet" not "Jeff Sharlett."
| 119 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:57:26pm |
re: #115 Gus 802
[Rubs eyes.]
So, is this Sharlett Denialism or C-Street Denialism?
Er... critical thinking.
| 120 |
Randall Gross Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:57:53pm |
re: #116 SixDegrees
Actually, this demand constitutes a demand for a negative proof, an logical impossibility. It is the responsibility of those making positive claims to produce supporting proof.
Charles proved the docs Rather were using were fake. If you think it's a fake or fraud statement, then go prove it.
| 121 |
Gus Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:58:02pm |
re: #118 Walter L. Newton
By the way, for those who are sticklers for details, the name is spelt "Jeff Sharlet" not "Jeff Sharlett."
I copied and pasted that from SixDegrees. Look above.
| 122 |
iceweasel Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:58:05pm |
re: #115 Gus 802
[Rubs eyes.]
So, is this Sharlett Denialism or C-Street Denialism?
It's the "I haven't read it and I'm not going to so there" denialism.
Denial Denialism, basically. A perfect loop of denial. A recursive system of denial.
| 123 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:58:23pm |
re: #115 Gus 802
The idea that highly religious Christians are trying to influence US politics is obviously just a made-up story! I mean, it's not like we constantly have to deal with legislation being offered that reflects conservative Christian values or anything.
Those prayer breakfasts are probably mass hallucinations, as well.
| 124 |
Gus Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:59:02pm |
re: #118 Walter L. Newton
By the way, for those who are sticklers for details, the name is spelt "Jeff Sharlet" not "Jeff Sharlett."
Oh, and spelt is an ancient wheat.
| 125 |
Randall Gross Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:59:14pm |
I think some normally reasonable people are acting bemused tonight, I suspect they have a mild case of Sharlet fever.
| 126 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Mar 10, 2010 4:00:45pm |
| 127 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Mar 10, 2010 4:01:25pm |
re: #125 Thanos
I think some normally reasonable people are acting bemused tonight, I suspect they have a mild case of Sharlet fever.
That answers everything.
| 129 |
SixDegrees Wed, Mar 10, 2010 4:03:32pm |
re: #120 Thanos
Charles proved the docs Rather were using were fake. If you think it's a fake or fraud statement, then go prove it.
I've already cast doubt on it. That's all I'm required to do. The explanation of what the document was wasn't satisfying to me. It isn't all that hard to make a definitive statement, i.e., "This is the deed; we got it from here..." If Maddow wants to amend her report to include such modifications and details, that would be fine with me.
| 130 |
iceweasel Wed, Mar 10, 2010 4:03:41pm |
OT, but this is cool:
A flip book of the Wicker Man, the entire movie, starring the Muppets.
| 131 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Mar 10, 2010 4:04:38pm |
re: #128 Uninformed Opinion
This is "Faith Based Initiative"
Sarc or For Real? Are they getting a taste of Fed money?
| 132 |
Gus Wed, Mar 10, 2010 4:05:06pm |
re: #123 Obdicut
The idea that highly religious Christians are trying to influence US politics is obviously just a made-up story! I mean, it's not like we constantly have to deal with legislation being offered that reflects conservative Christian values or anything.
Those prayer breakfasts are probably mass hallucinations, as well.
Yeah, couldn't happen could it. I mean, Focus on the Family doesn't really exist does it? They don't actually speaking in tongues do they? Next thing you know people will be claiming that liberals live at C-Street.
| 133 |
Randall Gross Wed, Mar 10, 2010 4:06:26pm |
re: #129 SixDegrees
I've already cast doubt on it. That's all I'm required to do. The explanation of what the document was wasn't satisfying to me. It isn't all that hard to make a definitive statement, i.e., "This is the deed; we got it from here..." If Maddow wants to amend her report to include such modifications and details, that would be fine with me.
Let he who has the most doubt cast the first stone...
| 134 |
SixDegrees Wed, Mar 10, 2010 4:06:47pm |
re: #132 Gus 802
Yeah, couldn't happen could it. I mean, Focus on the Family doesn't really exist does it? They don't actually speaking in tongues do they? Next thing you know people will be claiming that liberals live at C-Street.
Your departure from what has actually been said here is stunning.
Off to computerland for a while. Again, if anyone comes up with that independent source I've been asking for, I'm still very interested.
| 135 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 10, 2010 4:07:23pm |
re: #134 SixDegrees
Like the leader of the group speaking in an interview, for example?
| 136 |
SixDegrees Wed, Mar 10, 2010 4:07:45pm |
re: #133 Thanos
Let he who has the most doubt cast the first stone...
Already did. If you're comfortable believing what someone says without any confirmation, that's fine with me. I'm not.
| 137 |
Gus Wed, Mar 10, 2010 4:08:23pm |
re: #134 SixDegrees
Your departure from what has actually been said here is stunning.
Off to computerland for a while. Again, if anyone comes up with that independent source I've been asking for, I'm still very interested.
Well, I wasn't exactly applying it to what you said. I was responding to Obdicut and thinking about other things.
| 138 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Mar 10, 2010 4:09:03pm |
re: #134 SixDegrees
Your departure from what has actually been said here is stunning.
Off to computerland for a while. Again, if anyone comes up with that independent source I've been asking for, I'm still very interested.
And meanwhile, you just continue to completely ignore the video that Thanos posted, with the words of the group's leader.
| 139 |
Randall Gross Wed, Mar 10, 2010 4:09:27pm |
re: #134 SixDegrees
Your departure from what has actually been said here is stunning.
Off to computerland for a while. Again, if anyone comes up with that independent source I've been asking for, I'm still very interested.
Bullshit. I just pointed out a source, you shot it down. I pointed to Doug Coe's own speeches and you shot it down. You are just here to cast doubt, because you'd rather not see what's in front of you fricken eyes. It pisses me off to no end that all the members of my congressional delegation get subsidized rent from Doug Coe and co. and offer up anti science and anti freedom amendments with regularity.
| 141 |
Uninformed Opinion Wed, Mar 10, 2010 4:10:35pm |
re: #131 Decatur Deb
Sarc or For Real? Are they getting a taste of Fed money?
Look at who they have in their pockets.
there are some pretty disturbing cited quotes on the wiki alone.
| 142 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Mar 10, 2010 4:10:58pm |
I know it's hard to believe, but I can actually tell the difference between a book about the Illuminati, and Jeff Sharlet's very credible, well-researched and sourced book on an important subject.
Probably much better than people who haven't even read it.
| 143 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Mar 10, 2010 4:12:02pm |
re: #139 Thanos
Bullshit. I just pointed out a source, you shot it down. I pointed to Doug Coe's own speeches and you shot it down. You are just here to cast doubt, because you'd rather not see what's in front of you fricken eyes.
There's a lot of that going around lately.
| 144 |
Gus Wed, Mar 10, 2010 4:13:14pm |
re: #109 SixDegrees
I'll note that Maddow never actually claims that the document shown is the deed to the property. Listen to what she says when it's introduced. And I've looked into Maddow's reports on this in the past; all of her information in those reports came directly from Sharlet's The Family.
Sorry, but Sharlet's presentation sounds more like a description of the Illuminati for my tastes.
Uh, you can get the deed online. Subscription cost however is $175 a month. Are you doubting the authenticity of it? Here's what's available for free:
Property Detail
Address: 0133 C ST SE
SSL: 0733 0825
Record Details
Neighborhood: CAPITOL HILL Sub-Neighborhood: A
Use Code: 24 - Residential-Conversions-Less t Class 3 Exception: No
Tax Type: TX - Taxable Tax Class: 001 - Residential
Homestead Status: ** Not receiving the Homestead Deduction
Assessor: MITCHELL HAMBURGER
Gross Building Area: Ward: 6
Land Area: 3,466 Triennial Group: 2
Owner and Sales Information
Owner Name: C STREET CENTER INC C ST CENTER
Mailing Address: 133 C ST SE; WASHINGTON DC20003-1807
Sale Price: Not Available
Sale Date: 09/28/2009
Instrument No.: 106347
Tax Year 2011 Preliminary Assessment Roll
Current Value Proposed New Value (2011)
Land: $479,310 $483,850
Improvements: $1,355,190 $1,240,350
Total Value: $1,834,500 $1,724,200
Taxable Assessment: * $1,834,500 $1,724,200
| 145 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Mar 10, 2010 4:14:11pm |
re: #141 Uninformed Opinion
Look at who they have in their pockets.
there are some pretty disturbing cited quotes on the wiki alone.
It's time someone tore into their public-records fiscal history. Some young blogger in DC could make a mark, but it would take some good forensic accounting.
| 146 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Mar 10, 2010 4:19:28pm |
| 147 |
Gus Wed, Mar 10, 2010 4:21:15pm |
re: #146 Charles
Obviously, we can't trust you. You might have faked that document.
/
Yeah, I get payed by the Evul Liberal Cabal Syndicate™.
My checks are signed by Rachel Maddow.
| 148 |
SixDegrees Wed, Mar 10, 2010 4:22:29pm |
re: #139 Thanos
Bullshit. I just pointed out a source, you shot it down. I pointed to Doug Coe's own speeches and you shot it down. You are just here to cast doubt, because you'd rather not see what's in front of you fricken eyes. It pisses me off to no end that all the members of my congressional delegation get subsidized rent from Doug Coe and co. and offer up anti science and anti freedom amendments with regularity.
Uh - I wasn't responding to you.
| 149 |
Uninformed Opinion Wed, Mar 10, 2010 4:22:53pm |
re: #147 Gus 802
Yeah, I get payed by the Evul Liberal Cabal Syndicate™.
My checks are signed by Rachel Maddow.
Are they hiring? I have previous experience with secret Cabals and Rituals.
| 150 |
Gus Wed, Mar 10, 2010 4:23:34pm |
re: #149 Uninformed Opinion
Are they hiring? I have previous experience with secret Cabals and Rituals.
Well, you obviously can type. You're hired!
| 151 |
SixDegrees Wed, Mar 10, 2010 4:24:35pm |
re: #138 Charles
And meanwhile, you just continue to completely ignore the video that Thanos posted, with the words of the group's leader.
I saw it. Lots of inexplicable editing cuts in there. Reminiscent of the ACORN video that was recently debated here, where such omissions were also called into question.
| 152 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Mar 10, 2010 4:25:33pm |
re: #151 SixDegrees
I saw it. Lots of inexplicable editing cuts in there. Reminiscent of the ACORN video that was recently debated here, where such omissions were also called into question.
Oh, I see. That video's faked too.
Wow. The conspiracy to trick you into thinking there's a conspiracy goes deeper than I imagined.
| 153 |
SixDegrees Wed, Mar 10, 2010 4:25:53pm |
re: #142 Charles
I know it's hard to believe, but I can actually tell the difference between a book about the Illuminati, and Jeff Sharlet's very credible, well-researched and sourced book on an important subject.
Probably much better than people who haven't even read it.
Can you direct me to any sources that independently confirm Sharlet's work?
| 154 |
Randall Gross Wed, Mar 10, 2010 4:26:09pm |
| 155 |
SixDegrees Wed, Mar 10, 2010 4:26:53pm |
re: #152 Charles
Oh, I see. That video's faked too.
Wow. The conspiracy to trick you into thinking there's a conspiracy goes deeper than I imagined.
It's no different from what was offered by ACORN. My innate skepticism, however, knows no bounds.
| 156 |
Randall Gross Wed, Mar 10, 2010 4:27:08pm |
re: #153 SixDegrees
Did, upthread, you ignored them.
| 157 |
SixDegrees Wed, Mar 10, 2010 4:28:07pm |
re: #156 Thanos
Did, upthread, you ignored them.
No. I didn't find them compelling, however, as noted.
| 158 |
Randall Gross Wed, Mar 10, 2010 4:29:34pm |
re: #155 SixDegrees
Here's a non sharlet source. See the quote from Richard Carver
[Link: www.time.com...]
| 159 |
Randall Gross Wed, Mar 10, 2010 4:31:40pm |
I'm a non Sharlet source: I know my congresscritters have stayed at the C St house / Church for tax purposes and paid much less rent than they should have.
| 160 |
SixDegrees Wed, Mar 10, 2010 4:32:42pm |
re: #158 Thanos
Here's a non sharlet source. See the quote from Richard Carver
[Link: www.time.com...]
And...what? I've already said several times I'm aware the group exists. I remain unconvinced of their nefarious nature, as postulated by Sharlet.
| 161 |
Randall Gross Wed, Mar 10, 2010 4:33:07pm |
Here's another non Sharlet source
[Link: www.newcanaansociety.org...]
| 162 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Mar 10, 2010 4:33:28pm |
re: #158 Thanos
Here's a non sharlet source. See the quote from Richard Carver
[Link: www.time.com...]
Wow... that is scary...
Yet Coe also befriends dictators. "He would still hold out hope that these people could be redeemed and try to work through them to help the people over whom they have authority," says Richard Carver, president of the Fellowship's board of directors.
I changed my mind. And organization that witnesses to dictators in hope that they will reconsider their politics.
Scary.
| 163 |
Gus Wed, Mar 10, 2010 4:34:59pm |
C Street house target of clergy's IRS complaint
By Peter Slevin
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, February 23, 2010
The owners of a $1.8 million townhouse on Capitol Hill that has been home and refuge to conservative members of Congress are wrongly claiming a federal tax exemption reserved for religious establishments, 13 Ohio clergy members contend in a complaint to the Internal Revenue Service.
The clergy suspect that the C Street Center, which rents living space to lawmakers, is "an exclusive club for powerful officials . . . masquerading as a church," according to a request for an investigation addressed to IRS Commissioner Douglas Shulman.
The Ohio clergy, all Protestant members of Clergy Voice, say that the house serves no public interest and has no recognized creed or form of worship...
| 164 |
Uninformed Opinion Wed, Mar 10, 2010 4:35:49pm |
"Yet Coe also befriends dictators."
When there is something to gain.
| 165 |
Randall Gross Wed, Mar 10, 2010 4:36:06pm |
re: #160 SixDegrees
And...what? I've already said several times I'm aware the group exists. I remain unconvinced of their nefarious nature, as postulated by Sharlet.
SO you don't find it odd that all these congresscritters are staying at a church non church for subsidized rent? You don't find it the least bit odd that they continually offer social conservative legislation, and some of the oddest things you've seen that only radical xtians want? (google "Brownback Mermaid")
I find it highly fucking nefarious and corrupt.
| 166 |
SixDegrees Wed, Mar 10, 2010 4:36:18pm |
re: #159 Thanos
I'm a non Sharlet source: I know my congresscritters have stayed at the C St house / Church for tax purposes and paid much less rent than they should have.
Well, I suppose that's reputable. I don't see the point, however, since that wasn't what I was talking about.
| 168 |
SixDegrees Wed, Mar 10, 2010 4:38:50pm |
re: #165 Thanos
SO you don't find it odd that all these congresscritters are staying at a church non church for subsidized rent? You don't find it the least bit odd that they continually offer social conservative legislation, and some of the oddest things you've seen that only radical xtians want? (google "Brownback Mermaid")
I find it highly fucking nefarious and corrupt.
I find it odd that, after being in existence for nearly a century, allegedly wielding vast influence across the entire glove, only one person has ever taken notice of their activities.
| 169 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 10, 2010 4:40:19pm |
re: #168 SixDegrees
Huh. I've seen evidence a lot more than one person has taken notice of them. So what are you talking about?
You sometimes argue really well. That makes the times you offer basically no argument at all stand out more.
| 170 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Mar 10, 2010 4:40:30pm |
re: #168 SixDegrees
I find it odd that, after being in existence for nearly a century, allegedly wielding vast influence across the entire glove, only one person has ever taken notice of their activities.
Not any more.
| 171 |
Randall Gross Wed, Mar 10, 2010 4:46:21pm |
re: #168 SixDegrees
It could be because they are sworn to secrecy, which you would know if you read anything about them, and which Coe and others have admitted in interviews "We don't talk about the C. St House" as per the tape above.
Here they were operating in 80 from the same place, note that this also is a Non sharlet source.
[Link: www.mcym.org...]
| 172 |
Randall Gross Wed, Mar 10, 2010 4:49:20pm |
This tracks back to the very beginning of the group, notice that it's also a non Sharlet source
[Link: www.normangrubb.com...]
| 174 |
Randall Gross Wed, Mar 10, 2010 4:55:33pm |
Here's another Non Sharlet source :
In the process of introducing powerful men to Jesus, the Family has managed to affect a number of behind-the-scenes acts of diplomacy. In 1978 it helped the Carter administration organize a worldwide call to prayer with Menachem Begin and Anwar Sadat. At the 1994 National Prayer Breakfast, Family leaders persuaded their South African client, the Zulu chief Mangosuthu Buthelezi, to stand down from the possibility of civil war with Nelson Mandela. But such benign acts appear to be the exception to the rule. During the 1960s, the Family forged relationships between the U.S. government and some of the most oppressive regimes in the world, arranging prayer networks in the U.S. Congress for the likes of General Costa e Silva, dictator of Brazil; General Suharto, dictator of Indonesia; and General Park Chung Hee, dictator of South Korea. "The Fellowship's reach into governments around the world," observes David Kuo, a former special assistant to the president in Bush's first term, "is almost impossible to overstate or even grasp."
In 1983, Doug Coe and General John W. Vessey, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff , informed the civilian ambassadors of the Central American nations that the Prayer Breakfast would be used to arrange "private sessions" for their generals with "responsible leaders" in the United States; the invitations would be sent from Republican senators Richard Lugar and Mark Hatfield, and Dixie-crat John Stennis, the Mississippi segregationist after whom an aircraft carrier is now named. The Family went on to build friendships between the Reagan administration and the Salvadoran general Carlos Eugenios Vides Casanova, found liable in 2002 by a Florida jury for the torture of thousands, and the Honduran general Gustavo Alvarez Martinez, who before his assassination was linked to both the CIA and death squads. El Salvador became one of the bloodiest battlegrounds of the Cold War; U.S. military aid to Honduras jumped from $4 million per year to $79 million. In Africa, the Family greased the switch of U.S. patronage from one client state, Ethiopia, to another that they felt was more promising: Somalia. "We work with power where we can," Doug Coe explains, "build new power where we can't."
[Link: www.rumormillnews.com...]
| 175 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Mar 10, 2010 5:07:18pm |
re: #174 Thanos
Something tells me you're wasting your time.
| 176 |
Syrius Wed, Mar 10, 2010 5:07:23pm |
My head hurts...what's the reason for voting again?
| 177 |
TedStriker Wed, Mar 10, 2010 5:17:29pm |
re: #88 Charles
Sharlett actually joined the group and lived at the C Street townhouse for some time.
I'll bet The Family was royally pissed off at him...
| 178 |
TedStriker Wed, Mar 10, 2010 5:28:29pm |
re: #164 Uninformed Opinion
"Yet Coe also befriends dictators."
When there is something to gain.
Just like Pat Robertson and his dealings in West Africa...
| 179 |
RogueOne Wed, Mar 10, 2010 5:51:15pm |
re: #162 Walter L. Newton
Wow... that is scary...
Yet Coe also befriends dictators. "He would still hold out hope that these people could be redeemed and try to work through them to help the people over whom they have authority," says Richard Carver, president of the Fellowship's board of directors.
I changed my mind. And organization that witnesses to dictators in hope that they will reconsider their politics.
Scary.
Unless I'm mistaken, I think someone missed the sarcasm.
| 180 |
Qabal Wed, Mar 10, 2010 8:30:35pm |
I grew up in the evangelical subculture. When I first read the Sharlet document, and this follow up interview ([Link: www.alternet.org...] my first reaction was one of profound disbelief, as it just seems too kooky and off-the-charts ridiculous to possibly be true. I had to stop and say WTF to myself at least a half dozen times as I read it.
However, all of the language that he quotes people saying about Jesus and the verses of scripture used are all 100% consistent with the evangelical subculture. I have heard (and said, even) many of those exact phrases and sayings in my past (except the weird basketball game thing). I have been in Bible studies that were exactly like the ones he describes, where you have a group leader basically bring up chunks of scripture and everyone gives their feelings about what it means, which is one of the stronger Catholic critiques of Protestantism in general (the "everyone's a Pope" line).
I'm still not 100% sold on it, because it's still just a little too weird and close to the conspiracy theories I despise, but to someone intimately familiar with that culture, like me, it's compelling.
| 181 |
...stephen Thu, Mar 11, 2010 2:11:07am |
Hmmm, honest-to-God fact-checking, and nary a chalkboard in sight.
| 182 |
Super-ego Thu, Mar 11, 2010 6:55:03am |
If I heard Maddow correct, women want to buy insurance with their own money to have abortions as needed? I can't comprehend a women wanting to insure abortion on demand.
So, abortion is being seen as a form of birth control in this case? Isn't safe sex education a lot cheaper?
| 183 |
iceweasel Thu, Mar 11, 2010 6:56:58am |
re: #182 Super-ego
If I heard Maddow correct, women want to buy insurance with their own money to have abortions as needed? I can't comprehend a women wanting to insure abortion on demand.
So, abortion is being seen as a form of birth control in this case? Isn't safe sex education a lot cheaper?
No. You didn't hear correctly. Stupak and others want abortion to not be covered by insurance, thus forcing women to either take out a separate rider or otherwise pay for it out of pocket-- which would insure that abortion is available only to privileged women.
| 184 |
Super-ego Thu, Mar 11, 2010 7:13:12am |
re: #183 iceweasel
No. You didn't hear correctly. Stupak and others want abortion to not be covered by insurance, thus forcing women to either take out a separate rider or otherwise pay for it out of pocket-- which would insure that abortion is available only to privileged women.
Ok, I got it. I had to listen a few more times. Thanks, icewesel.
I would still prefer my tax dollars only be spent on abortions in the case of incest, rape, and to protect the mother. If the abortions are for birth control and convenience, then I can't support. it. I would support my tax dollars used for extensive sex education and it's positive and negative repercussions.
| 185 |
iceweasel Thu, Mar 11, 2010 7:18:12am |
re: #184 Super-ego
Ok, I got it. I had to listen a few more times. Thanks, icewesel.
Stupak is flat out wrong about abortion and HCR by the way.
[Link: www.washingtonmonthly.com...]
There are links in there that will take you through the whole issue and why he's wrong. HCR would only ensure that abortion is covered in the same ways it's always been covered-- it's just that more people would have access to that coverage.
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