1 | darthstar Sun, May 2, 2010 7:10:21pm |
If you’re not watching 60 Minutes, turn it on now. They’re talking about the “All American Canal” in Southern California and how many immigrants die there. Turn it on. Turn it on now.
2 | jamesfirecat Sun, May 2, 2010 7:10:55pm |
Turn turn, turn, to every season turn turn turn…
3 | The Bunny Sun, May 2, 2010 7:11:49pm |
Ah!!! Wonderful.
Another perfect picture of dormant power waiting to be unleashed.
4 | Aceofwhat? Sun, May 2, 2010 7:11:49pm |
re: #1 darthstar
If you’re not watching 60 Minutes, turn it on now. They’re talking about the “All American Canal” in Southern California and how many immigrants die there. Turn it on. Turn it on now.
are you sure it isn’t just you and the 9 other people on Mountain time? i looked…
6 | reine.de.tout Sun, May 2, 2010 7:12:05pm |
re: #1 darthstar
If you’re not watching 60 Minutes, turn it on now. They’re talking about the “All American Canal” in Southern California and how many immigrants die there. Turn it on. Turn it on now.
eh. 60-minutes was 2 hours ago here; What is the “All American Canal”, and do immigrants die trying to get across it?
7 | freetoken Sun, May 2, 2010 7:13:04pm |
re: #6 reine.de.tout
The AAC is how Colorado river water is sent through parts of Imperial county for agricultural purposes.
9 | darthstar Sun, May 2, 2010 7:13:28pm |
re: #4 Aceofwhat?
They just interviewed one of the women on the irrigation commission…she said “When they jump into the canal, they’re taking their lives in their own hands.” (i.e. she’s against putting buoys and lifelines into the canal.)
11 | Cato the Elder Sun, May 2, 2010 7:13:50pm |
re: #1 darthstar
If you’re not watching 60 Minutes, turn it on now. They’re talking about the “All American Canal” in Southern California and how many immigrants die there. Turn it on. Turn it on now.
Sorry. Don’t do teevee.
12 | darthstar Sun, May 2, 2010 7:13:51pm |
re: #6 reine.de.tout
eh. 60-minutes was 2 hours ago here; What is the “All American Canal”, and do immigrants die trying to get across it?
Several hundred of them.
13 | jamesfirecat Sun, May 2, 2010 7:14:27pm |
re: #10 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I have a sudden urge to tilt.
Then you’ve been playing pinball too long.
14 | Cato the Elder Sun, May 2, 2010 7:14:48pm |
re: #9 darthstar
They just interviewed one of the women on the irrigation commission…she said “When they jump into the canal, they’re taking their lives in their own hands.” (i.e. she’s against putting buoys and lifelines into the canal.)
Why not boats? Free ones.
15 | freetoken Sun, May 2, 2010 7:15:19pm |
re: #10 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I have a sudden urge to tilt.
Heh, I’m sure LVQ would join in with you…
16 | darthstar Sun, May 2, 2010 7:15:36pm |
Okay…this one guy, an anti-immigrant Republican, actually put in a buoy line himself in ten minutes…it took the Imperial Immigration Committee the same amount of time to dimantle it.
He’s anti-immigration, but believes the canal is a death trap and that not putting in lifelines is morally criminal.
17 | freetoken Sun, May 2, 2010 7:17:03pm |
re: #14 Cato the Elder
Don’t tell Duncan Hunter, he’ll probably want to put alligators in there.
18 | jamesfirecat Sun, May 2, 2010 7:17:03pm |
re: #9 darthstar
They just interviewed one of the women on the irrigation commission…she said “When they jump into the canal, they’re taking their lives in their own hands.” (i.e. she’s against putting buoys and lifelines into the canal.)
What the f***?
Dude I get it that you don’t want illegal immigrants in the country, but how about a little compassion?
Though at least now I know where they came up with that “race for the green” idea where they had immigrants compete with the winner getting a green card….
19 | Aceofwhat? Sun, May 2, 2010 7:17:07pm |
re: #9 darthstar
They just interviewed one of the women on the irrigation commission…she said “When they jump into the canal, they’re taking their lives in their own hands.” (i.e. she’s against putting buoys and lifelines into the canal.)
huh. i found a little local blurb here.
sounds like a big part of the problem are smugglers who tell folks that it’s safe to cross.
that’s not cool.
20 | darthstar Sun, May 2, 2010 7:17:16pm |
re: #14 Cato the Elder
Why not boats? Free ones.
Canals move at 8ft per second. The water is cold…very cold. Your attempt at humor is a fail.
Okay…story’s over…I guess it never happened.
21 | jamesfirecat Sun, May 2, 2010 7:17:38pm |
re: #17 freetoken
Don’t tell Duncan Hunter, he’ll probably want to put alligators in there.
Or at least illtempered and mutated sea bass….
22 | tradewind Sun, May 2, 2010 7:17:40pm |
son-of-a-rhymes-with-itch……
This makes me spitting mad.
23 | Dark_Falcon Sun, May 2, 2010 7:18:00pm |
re: #1 darthstar
If you’re not watching 60 Minutes, turn it on now. They’re talking about the “All American Canal” in Southern California and how many immigrants die there. Turn it on. Turn it on now.
I remember hearing that one person who died was located via the trackers placed on California Condors. The birds had found him and were doing what vultures do. The story may be apocryphal, though.
24 | Dancing along the light of day Sun, May 2, 2010 7:18:11pm |
Repost, because it works here too!
re: #70 Killgore Trout
LOL!
But the worse part… I know find out that some asshole in the GREEN MOVEMENT allowed these WIND FARMS to be built right near SOLAR FARMS and so (WHOOOSH) what is going to happen if all this extra wind somehow manages to DESTROY THE SOLAR FARM and (WHOOOSH) next thing we know… we’re dealing with THE FUCKING SUN SPILLING ALL OVER THE DESERT!
25 | Charles Johnson Sun, May 2, 2010 7:18:17pm |
re: #17 freetoken
Don’t tell Duncan Hunter, he’ll probably want to put alligators in there.
There once was a time when Duncan Hunter seemed like one of the sane Republicans.
26 | reine.de.tout Sun, May 2, 2010 7:18:36pm |
re: #16 darthstar
Okay…this one guy, an anti-immigrant Republican, actually put in a buoy line himself in ten minutes…it took the Imperial Immigration Committee the same amount of time to dimantle it.
He’s anti-immigration, but believes the canal is a death trap and that not putting in lifelines is morally criminal.
A Republican? Will wonders never cease …
/
Sarcasm aside - it’s awful, just awful, that people are that desperate for a better life, even if it’s a life as an illegal working for less than minimum wages, that they will put their lives in that sort of danger.
The corruption of Mexico’s politicians must bear responsibility for this, but they will not, and if they won’t, we have to do something, it’s just the right thing to do.
27 | Kragar Sun, May 2, 2010 7:19:16pm |
re: #25 Charles
There once was a time when Duncan Hunter seemed like one of the sane Republicans.
Right up until he got elected. Since then, its been all down hill.
28 | Charles Johnson Sun, May 2, 2010 7:19:57pm |
re: #27 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Right up until he got elected. Since then, its been all down hill.
Funny how that works.
29 | darthstar Sun, May 2, 2010 7:20:31pm |
re: #19 Aceofwhat?
They interviewed a woman (German born US citizen) whose husband was deported and then died trying to cross the canal. It’s not the “coyotes” that killed him. Over 500 people (including one US border guard trying to save his dog) have died in the canal in the last year or so. There are no safety features…period. Canals are death traps. When I was a kid I wanted to go fishing in one in town near my dad’s office…he about shit bricks explaining to me that I was never to go near the canals.
Oh, and the government did fund an expensive project to save lives on the canal…they netted and used cranes to lift fish over the dams.
30 | jamesfirecat Sun, May 2, 2010 7:20:47pm |
re: #25 Charles
There once was a time when Duncan Hunter seemed like one of the sane Republicans.
//There once was a time when there was such a thing as a sane Republican in office….
(I know my blue bias is showing)
31 | Cato the Elder Sun, May 2, 2010 7:20:48pm |
re: #20 darthstar
Canals move at 8ft per second. The water is cold…very cold. Your attempt at humor is a fail.
Okay…story’s over…I guess it never happened.
No blame on the coyotes who sell the would-be illegals a bad way to cross over, of course. We should just put up lifelines. I say again, why not boats? With free drinks? And cigars? You make it that far…
I mean, seriously, the biggest problem I see in this country is not and has never been “aliens”, but if you’re going to try to swim a canal to get here, then you damn well are taking your life in your hands.
32 | Dark_Falcon Sun, May 2, 2010 7:20:58pm |
re: #21 jamesfirecat
Or at least illtempered and mutated sea bass…
With frickin’ laser beams on their frickin’ heads!
/
33 | Kragar Sun, May 2, 2010 7:21:50pm |
34 | brookly red Sun, May 2, 2010 7:21:57pm |
re: #29 darthstar
They interviewed a woman (German born US citizen) whose husband was deported and then died trying to cross the canal. It’s not the “coyotes” that killed him. Over 500 people (including one US border guard trying to save his dog) have died in the canal in the last year or so. There are no safety features…period. Canals are death traps. When I was a kid I wanted to go fishing in one in town near my dad’s office…he about shit bricks explaining to me that I was never to go near the canals.
Oh, and the government did fund an expensive project to save lives on the canal…they netted and used cranes to lift fish over the dams.
I don’t suppose that fencing it off is an option?
35 | Aceofwhat? Sun, May 2, 2010 7:22:09pm |
re: #29 darthstar
They interviewed a woman (German born US citizen) whose husband was deported and then died trying to cross the canal. It’s not the “coyotes” that killed him. Over 500 people (including one US border guard trying to save his dog) have died in the canal in the last year or so. There are no safety features…period. Canals are death traps. When I was a kid I wanted to go fishing in one in town near my dad’s office…he about shit bricks explaining to me that I was never to go near the canals.
Oh, and the government did fund an expensive project to save lives on the canal…they netted and used cranes to lift fish over the dams.
mmm…i think that 500 people have died in it since it was built in 1938.
36 | Decatur Deb Sun, May 2, 2010 7:23:05pm |
re: #22 tradewind
son-of-a-rhymes-with-itch…
This makes me spitting mad.[Link: blog.al.com…]
Bayou la Batre fishing is worth 400 million per year.
37 | darthstar Sun, May 2, 2010 7:23:08pm |
re: #35 Aceofwhat?
mmm…i think that 500 people have died in it since it was built in 1938.
100 in the last year at one damn. 60 at each of two others.
38 | freetoken Sun, May 2, 2010 7:23:28pm |
re: #25 Charles
Duncan D. Hunter, who is now in office, is I think trying too hard to be his father’s son. He essentially inherited that position, his father held it so long. I voted for his father a couple of times, but refuse to vote for any (R) from this part of the county anymore - they’ve all gone Tea Party.
39 | jamesfirecat Sun, May 2, 2010 7:23:47pm |
re: #37 darthstar
100 in the last year at one damn. 60 at each of two others.
Okay one of you is making numbers up because there’s no way both those statics can be true….
40 | Tigger2005 Sun, May 2, 2010 7:24:36pm |
prairiefire, if you’re there:
While I’m no fan of Sarah Palin, she apparently isn’t quite so dumb as to say the Kansas City area is home to a sports team that doesn’t exist. Independence does have a minor league hockey team called…the Missouri Mavericks. Her handlers wouldn’t have let her make a gaffe that big…
Just wanted to let you know before you told that story to anyone in person… :)
41 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 7:24:36pm |
re: #31 Cato the Elder
No blame on the coyotes who sell the would-be illegals a bad way to cross over, of course. We should just put up lifelines. I say again, why not boats? With free drinks? And cigars? You make it that far…
I mean, seriously, the biggest problem I see in this country is not and has never been “aliens”, but if you’re going to try to swim a canal to get here, then you damn well are taking your life in your hands.
I’m a pretty damn compassionate guy. That said… I’m with Cato on this one.
42 | Aceofwhat? Sun, May 2, 2010 7:25:00pm |
re: #37 darthstar
100 in the last year at one damn. 60 at each of two others.
so 220 in the last year and ~300 in the 70 years prior?
my figure is from the article that i linked to.
43 | darthstar Sun, May 2, 2010 7:25:37pm |
re: #39 jamesfirecat
Okay one of you is making numbers up because there’s no way both those statics can be true…
Okay…I might have misinterpreted what they said on 60 minutes…here are the hard numbers:
allamericancanal.org
44 | tradewind Sun, May 2, 2010 7:25:45pm |
re: #16 darthstar
You mean there’s an anti-illegal-immigration Republican who still retains the milk of human kindness?/
I don’t really believe that you will find many Americans, regardless of their political beliefs, who think that drowning people is a good thing.
OTOH, it seems as if a lot of the deaths happen when the Mexican coyotes / smugglers** callously abandon their human cargo to die in the desert …. presumably to avoid arrest.
**with apologies to actual coyotes everywhere
45 | Charles Johnson Sun, May 2, 2010 7:25:45pm |
May 2007: A Guest Post By Duncan Hunter.
46 | brookly red Sun, May 2, 2010 7:26:55pm |
re: #42 Aceofwhat?
so 220 in the last year and ~300 in the 70 years prior?
my figure is from the article that i linked to.
odd, it seems to be getting more popular all of a sudden…
47 | tradewind Sun, May 2, 2010 7:27:06pm |
re: #36 Decatur Deb
I should clarify that I am mad at BP, and support what the AG is doing. Bastards are trying to preclude any settlements imposed by a court and low-ball the fishermen for a lousy five thousand bucks.
48 | jamesfirecat Sun, May 2, 2010 7:28:10pm |
re: #45 Charles
May 2007: A Guest Post By Duncan Hunter.
Looks like he isn’t so much a great mind as just gaga for walls.
49 | Kragar Sun, May 2, 2010 7:28:26pm |
re: #45 Charles
May 2007: A Guest Post By Duncan Hunter.
Different Duncan Hunter. That was senior, Duncan Hunter Junior is the current Congressman, ran in his father’s same district.
50 | jamesfirecat Sun, May 2, 2010 7:28:53pm |
re: #36 Decatur Deb
Bayou la Batre fishing is worth 400 million per year.
[Link: www.npr.org…]
How can they even be already arguing over the price when we haven’t finished cleaning up the damn spill yet?
51 | Decatur Deb Sun, May 2, 2010 7:29:16pm |
re: #47 tradewind
I should clarify that I am mad at BP, and support what the AG is doing. Bastards are trying to preclude any settlements imposed by a court and low-ball the fishermen for a lousy five thousand bucks.
It was starting to come back from Katrina.
52 | darthstar Sun, May 2, 2010 7:30:08pm |
re: #44 tradewind
All snark aside, if you’d listened to the woman from the Imperial Immigration Council talk about the deaths, you wouldn’t see the humor in that. She blamed “bureaucracy” for the deaths. Bureaucracy.
53 | Charles Johnson Sun, May 2, 2010 7:30:17pm |
re: #49 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Different Duncan Hunter. That was senior, Duncan Hunter Junior is the current Congressman, ran in his father’s same district.
Right, I know. Just some background info.
54 | Tigger2005 Sun, May 2, 2010 7:30:53pm |
re: #44 tradewind
You mean there’s an anti-illegal-immigration Republican who still retains the milk of human kindness?/
I don’t really believe that you will find many Americans, regardless of their political beliefs, who think that drowning people is a good thing.
OTOH, it seems as if a lot of the deaths happen when the Mexicancoyotes/ smugglers** callously abandon their human cargo to die in the desert … presumably to avoid arrest.
**with apologies to actual coyotes everywhere
Well, I have to say that jumping into a canal is incredibly foolish, no matter how desperate you are. Still, I suppose we should put out some lifelines, as long as there’s a passel of border guards on the other end to dry the fellow off and send him right back.
55 | Aceofwhat? Sun, May 2, 2010 7:31:12pm |
re: #46 brookly red
odd, it seems to be getting more popular all of a sudden…
60 minutes can tell a good story sometimes but they’re not always very good with numbers. i bet they misled some viewers, including my dude Darthstar.
gotta run. not winning this migrane battle at the moment…going to find some dark and quiet to help. hate migranes…so random sometimes.
good night all.
56 | Decatur Deb Sun, May 2, 2010 7:31:16pm |
re: #50 jamesfirecat
How can they even be already arguing over the price when we haven’t finished cleaning up the damn spill yet?
Good risk management. I don’t think the oil is even there, yet, but it’s coming.
This is the same thinking that gets an auto accident release in the hospital.
57 | darthstar Sun, May 2, 2010 7:31:37pm |
re: #54 Tigger2005
Well, I have to say that jumping into a canal is incredibly foolish, no matter how desperate you are. Still, I suppose we should put out some lifelines, as long as there’s a passel of border guards on the other end to dry the fellow off and send him right back.
Exactly…that’s what the American widow of a victim of the canal said. Send them back, sure, but don’t just let them die.
58 | brookly red Sun, May 2, 2010 7:32:14pm |
re: #52 darthstar
All snark aside, if you’d listened to the woman from the Imperial Immigration Council talk about the deaths, you wouldn’t see the humor in that. She blamed “bureaucracy” for the deaths. Bureaucracy.
uhhh, are you sure that isn’t Imperial Irrigation Council?
59 | Casual Talker Sun, May 2, 2010 7:32:27pm |
When I think of windmills, I want to lay back and to listen to the only tune I know about windmills.
Link test…
60 | Irenicum Sun, May 2, 2010 7:32:31pm |
Oooo, windmills. That’s what we’re gonna have not too far from me. Except ours will be in the water.
61 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 7:33:05pm |
re: #57 darthstar
Exactly…that’s what the American widow of a victim of the canal said. Send them back, sure, but don’t just let them die.
I hate sounding like I’m way on the anti-immigration side. I’m not. But shit, just build a fucking bridge at that point.
62 | jamesfirecat Sun, May 2, 2010 7:33:21pm |
re: #56 Decatur Deb
Good risk management. I don’t think the oil is even there, yet, but it’s coming.
This is the same thinking that gets an auto accident release in the hospital.
I still think its bull plucky, they’re going to pay the entire price, yes?
So if something else (G-d forbid) goes wrong they’re going to pay even more.
It really doesn’t make sense to haggle over a cafe you’re going to buy, when the cafe is still inside the cow that’s about to give birth to it, and you don’t know what the cafe looks like….
Sorry best analogy I could think of….
63 | Tigger2005 Sun, May 2, 2010 7:34:03pm |
re: #59 Casual Talker
When I think of windmills, I want to lay back and to listen to the only tune I know about windmills.
Link test…
[Video]
Couldn’t find the original and best, with Steve McQueen?
64 | Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, May 2, 2010 7:34:41pm |
re: #62 jamesfirecat
I still think its bull plucky, they’re going to pay the entire price, yes?
So if something else (G-d forbid) goes wrong they’re going to pay even more.
It really doesn’t make sense to haggle over a cafe you’re going to buy, when the cafe is still inside the cow that’s about to give birth to it, and you don’t know what the cafe looks like…
Sorry best analogy I could think of…
A cafe in a cow? Poke holes for lighting?
/evening honcos!
65 | Dancing along the light of day Sun, May 2, 2010 7:35:13pm |
re: #45 Charles
Once upon a time, in a land far, far away…
Well, times change, and so do people!
66 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 7:35:45pm |
re: #62 jamesfirecat
I still think its bull plucky, they’re going to pay the entire price, yes?
So if something else (G-d forbid) goes wrong they’re going to pay even more.
It really doesn’t make sense to haggle over a cafe you’re going to buy, when the cafe is still inside the cow that’s about to give birth to it, and you don’t know what the cafe looks like…
Sorry best analogy I could think of…
Bro… calf. “Cafe” had my mind picturing something way different.
67 | Casual Talker Sun, May 2, 2010 7:35:55pm |
re: #63 Tigger2005
Couldn’t find the original and best, with Steve McQueen?
Although Faye Dunaway appeared in both films, the remake with dear Faye as Mr. Crownes therapist. If I’m not mistaken, this an old Michele LeGrand tune - a lovely one too.
68 | Irenicum Sun, May 2, 2010 7:35:58pm |
re: #25 Charles
That was a long time ago in a galaxy far far away.
69 | Decatur Deb Sun, May 2, 2010 7:36:07pm |
re: #62 jamesfirecat
I still think its bull plucky, they’re going to pay the entire price, yes?
…snip…
In your dreams. Check the history of the EXXON Valdez settlements through the appeals courts.
70 | swamprat Sun, May 2, 2010 7:36:35pm |
posted on wrong thread
Meant to post it here .
Arlo talks for 45 seconds
Deportee
Hoyt Axton did it better
The crops are all in and the peaches are rotting,
The oranges are packed in their creosote dumps.2.
They’re flying ‘em back to the Mexico border
To take all their money to wade back again.
Goodbye to my Juan, goodbye Rosalita,
Adios mis amigos, Jesus y Maria.
You won’t have a name when you ride the big airplane,
All they will call you will be “deportees.”
My father’s own father, he waded that river.
They took all the money he made in his life.
My brothers and sisters came workin’ the fruit trees,
They rode the big trucks ‘till they laid down and died.
Goodbye to my Juan, goodbye Rosalita,
Adios mis amigos, Jesus y Maria.
You won’t have a name when you ride the big airplane,
All they will call you will be “deportees.”
The skyplane caught fire over Los Gatos Canyon,
A fireball of lightnin’ an’ it shook all the hills.
Who are these chicanos all scattered like dry leaves?
The radio tells me, “They’re just deportees.”
We died in your hills and we died in your deserts,
We died in your valleys, we died in your plains.
We died ‘neath your trees and we died ‘neath your bushes,
Both sides of the river we died just the same.
You won’t have a name when you ride the big airplane,
All they will call you will be “deportees”
Is this the best way we can grow our big orchards?
Is this the best way we can grow our good fruit?
To die like the dry leaves and rot on my topsoil
And be known by no name except “deportee.”?
71 | recusancy Sun, May 2, 2010 7:36:40pm |
72 | Dark_Falcon Sun, May 2, 2010 7:36:42pm |
re: #53 Charles
Right, I know. Just some background info.
Some people would try to hide that they’ve been associated with the Hunters at all. But you, sir, always go with honest and full disclosure. Bravo, Charles!
73 | tradewind Sun, May 2, 2010 7:37:19pm |
re: #50 jamesfirecat
It’s the same tactic that airlines used to use when they would send out a handler to ’ befriend ’ and lawyer to convince each family who lost someone in a plane crash that they should accept a cash settlement now, and oh yeah sign here…..this holds us harmless in any future action…..
Corporate sees it as preemptive, I see it as low.
74 | jamesfirecat Sun, May 2, 2010 7:38:05pm |
re: #69 Decatur Deb
In your dreams. Check the history of the EXXON Valdez settlements through the appeals courts.
So in other words when they say they’ll pay for the entire thing, they really mean they’ll pay as little as they possibly can and stick we the people with the price tag for cleaning up their mess. Literally.
I know some might argue that the bailouts are doing the exact same thing, but dear god is it so blindingly obvious in this case….
75 | tradewind Sun, May 2, 2010 7:39:12pm |
76 | Decatur Deb Sun, May 2, 2010 7:39:37pm |
re: #74 jamesfirecat
So in other words when they say they’ll pay for the entire thing, they really mean they’ll pay as little as they possibly can and stick we the people with the price tag for cleaning up their mess. Literally.
I know some might argue that the bailouts are doing the exact same thing, but dear god is it so blindingly obvious in this case…
They might be defrauding their stockholders to pay any more than they have to.
I am describing, not endorsing.
77 | recusancy Sun, May 2, 2010 7:40:20pm |
re: #45 Charles
May 2007: A Guest Post By Duncan Hunter.
Damn. There’s some serious bigotry in the posts on that thread. Starting out with #11.
78 | jamesfirecat Sun, May 2, 2010 7:41:18pm |
re: #76 Decatur Deb
They might be defrauding their stockholders to pay any more than they have to.
I am describing, not endorsing.
When a British Company does something like this on our American soil/waters the correct response should be them writing us a blank check and saying “my bad take this.”
Just my $0.02
79 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 7:41:33pm |
re: #76 Decatur Deb
They might be defrauding their stockholders to pay any more than they have to.
I am describing, not endorsing.
Lawsuits’ll have to take care of the rest. If I were a fisherman in the area I’d have a lawyer, like, last week.
81 | Charles Johnson Sun, May 2, 2010 7:42:52pm |
re: #77 recusancy
Damn. There’s some serious bigotry in the posts on that thread. Starting out with #11.
Fjordman. Nuff said.
82 | Decatur Deb Sun, May 2, 2010 7:43:11pm |
re: #79 JasonA
Lawsuits’ll have to take care of the rest. If I were a fisherman in the area I’d have a lawyer, like, last week.
The Sun Myung Moon organization is the heart of the industry there. Might be interesting.
83 | Killgore Trout Sun, May 2, 2010 7:43:17pm |
Seven Windmills
Fascism! Communism! Precious bodily fluids!
/Mandrake, come feed this belt for me.
84 | Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, May 2, 2010 7:43:43pm |
85 | brookly red Sun, May 2, 2010 7:43:51pm |
re: #79 JasonA
Lawsuits’ll have to take care of the rest. If I were a fisherman in the area I’d have a lawyer, like, last week.
/so Edwards can make a comeback after all?
86 | tradewind Sun, May 2, 2010 7:43:58pm |
So I know they’re a good energy source, and all that, but looking at those, I’m starting to see Ted Kennedy’s point….
Something there is that does not love a (modern day, designed for a windfarm ) windmill. They do screw up the landscape.
87 | jamesfirecat Sun, May 2, 2010 7:44:12pm |
re: #84 Cannadian Club Akbar
Lotsa names there I remember but are long gone. Wow.
Behold the ghosts of Lizards Past!
88 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 7:44:50pm |
re: #76 Decatur Deb
They might be defrauding their stockholders to pay any more than they have to.
Also, it’s a shame we can’t say that when our government pays KBR $45/coke.
89 | Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, May 2, 2010 7:44:57pm |
90 | tradewind Sun, May 2, 2010 7:45:43pm |
91 | jamesfirecat Sun, May 2, 2010 7:46:15pm |
re: #89 Cannadian Club Akbar
Stop it!! You’re scaring me!!
/
The ghosts of Lizards future are even worse… for be warned with each opening of the Mystical Green Door, LGF skews more liberal!
92 | Cato the Elder Sun, May 2, 2010 7:46:18pm |
re: #70 swamprat
posted on wrong thread
Meant to post it here .
Arlo talks for 45 seconds
Deportee
Hoyt Axton did it better
Thank you, Swamp Thing. I was just thinking about that song the other night.
Wiki:
“Deportee (Plane Wreck at Los Gatos)” is a protest song with lyrics by Woody Guthrie detailing the January 28, 1948 crash of a plane near Los Gatos Canyon,[1] 20 miles west of Coalinga in Fresno County, California, United States.[2][3] The crash occurred in Los Gatos Canyon and not in the town of Los Gatos itself, which is in Santa Clara County, approximately 150 miles away. Guthrie was inspired to write the song by what he considered the racist mistreatment of the passengers before and after the accident.[1] The crash resulted in the deaths of 32 people, 4 Americans and 28 migrant farm workers who were being deported from California back to Mexico.[3]
HistoryThe genesis of “Deportee (Plane Wreck at Los Gatos)” reportedly occurred when Guthrie was struck by the fact that radio and newspaper coverage of the event did not give the victims’ names, but instead referred to them merely as “deportees.”[2] For example, none of the deportees’ names were printed in the January 29, 1948 New York Times report, only those of the flight crew and the security guard.[3][4] Guthrie responded with a poem, which, when it was first written, featured only rudimentary musical accompaniment, with Guthrie chanting the song rather than singing it.[1] In the poem, Guthrie assigned symbolic names to the dead: “Goodbye to my Juan, goodbye Rosalita; adiós, mis amigos, Jesús y María…”[5]
1948. 1948. 1948!
This horror has been going on for a long, long time.
And we still couldn’t run this country for a week without “illegals” before the price of everything doubled, at least. Including the price of illegals.
93 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 7:46:38pm |
re: #85 brookly red
/so Edwards can make a comeback after all?
It’s fascinating to me how Spitzer’s done a much better job pf rehabilitating himself than Edwards. Perhaps the latter’s constant denials hurt him more? Just a stray thought.
94 | Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, May 2, 2010 7:47:15pm |
re: #91 jamesfirecat
The ghosts of Lizards future are even worse… for be warned with each opening of the Mystical Green Door, LGF skews more liberal!
Now you’re just being mean!!!
/
95 | Tigger2005 Sun, May 2, 2010 7:47:45pm |
re: #91 jamesfirecat
The ghosts of Lizards future are even worse… for be warned with each opening of the Mystical Green Door, LGF skews more liberal!
I first heard of LGF on the Internet Infidels Discussion Board. It was described there as a “right-wing hate site.”
96 | jamesfirecat Sun, May 2, 2010 7:48:19pm |
re: #93 JasonA
It’s fascinating to me how Spitzer’s done a much better job pf rehabilitating himself than Edwards. Perhaps the latter’s constant denials hurt him more? Just a stray thought.
IOKIYAR
Pure plain simple IOKIYAR.
97 | Casual Talker Sun, May 2, 2010 7:48:30pm |
re: #63 Tigger2005
Couldn’t find the original and best, with Steve McQueen?
This may be it - Henry Mancini?
98 | tradewind Sun, May 2, 2010 7:48:31pm |
re: #85 brookly redExcept that Edwards prefers his clients deceased. Eliminates all that tedious rebuttal.
99 | recusancy Sun, May 2, 2010 7:49:03pm |
re: #93 JasonA
It’s fascinating to me how Spitzer’s done a much better job pf rehabilitating himself than Edwards. Perhaps the latter’s constant denials hurt him more? Just a stray thought.
Spitzer’s damn good at everything he does. I think he could have been president. It’s just too bad that one of those things that he’s good at is banging high priced hookers.
100 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 7:49:08pm |
101 | jamesfirecat Sun, May 2, 2010 7:50:09pm |
102 | Cato the Elder Sun, May 2, 2010 7:50:39pm |
103 | brookly red Sun, May 2, 2010 7:50:47pm |
re: #93 JasonA
It’s fascinating to me how Spitzer’s done a much better job pf rehabilitating himself than Edwards. Perhaps the latter’s constant denials hurt him more? Just a stray thought.
maybe, hard to say… it may also have to do with the fact that Spitzer was a prosecutor type and Edwards was a slip & fall type, or maybe he just hired better PR people.
104 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 7:51:53pm |
re: #99 recusancy
Spitzer’s damn good at everything he does. I think he could have been president. It’s just too bad that one of those things that he’s good at is banging high priced hookers.
I agree. I didn’t love everything he wanted to do as Gov (he wanted to give illegal aliens drivers licenses, a concept that makes my brain hurt) but after a year and half(?) of Patterson I’d beg him to come back if I could.
105 | Cato the Elder Sun, May 2, 2010 7:52:38pm |
re: #93 JasonA
It’s fascinating to me how Spitzer’s done a much better job pf rehabilitating himself than Edwards. Perhaps the latter’s constant denials hurt him more? Just a stray thought.
Edwards hasn’t tried the Comeback Trail yet because the full dope on his lyin’ ass has yet to emerge. There are trials and things to await.
Give it time.
106 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 7:52:47pm |
re: #101 jamesfirecat
Sorry my bad I got Spittzer and Sanford mixed up.
At least Spitzer didn’t think call his “lady” his soulmate on live tv.
107 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 7:53:04pm |
re: #105 Cato the Elder
Edwards hasn’t tried the Comeback Trail yet because the full dope on his lyin’ ass has yet to emerge. There are trials and things to await.
Give it time.
Yeah, you could be on to something there.
108 | Dark_Falcon Sun, May 2, 2010 7:53:19pm |
re: #87 jamesfirecat
Behold the ghosts of Lizards Past!
The best of those of that thread are still here, or at least have not been banned.
109 | tradewind Sun, May 2, 2010 7:53:24pm |
re: #36 Decatur Deb
Bayou la Batre brown shrimp are the best in the world. Much tastier than the pink ones in the gulf. And the seafood dealers always sell out of them first.
I’ll really hate it if they’re messed up.
110 | Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, May 2, 2010 7:53:49pm |
re: #106 JasonA
At least Spitzer didn’t think call his “lady” his soulmate on live tv.
Did Spitzer just have one? Just asking.
111 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 7:54:26pm |
re: #110 Cannadian Club Akbar
Did Spitzer just have one? Just asking.
Probably not. I don’t recall the details, except that he kept his socks on…
112 | brookly red Sun, May 2, 2010 7:54:33pm |
113 | Dark_Falcon Sun, May 2, 2010 7:54:57pm |
re: #103 brookly red
maybe, hard to say… it may also have to do with the fact that Spitzer was a prosecutor type and Edwards was a slip & fall type, or maybe he just hired better PR people.
Also, what he did seemed less rotten. Edwards cheated on his wife while she had cancer. Moreover, he lied about it and covered up more and for longer than did Spitzer.
114 | recusancy Sun, May 2, 2010 7:54:59pm |
re: #104 JasonA
I agree. I didn’t love everything he wanted to do as Gov (he wanted to give illegal aliens drivers licenses, a concept that makes my brain hurt) but after a year and half(?) of Patterson I’d beg him to come back if I could.
He subs on MSNBC sometimes and he destroys everyone he argues with. He could have been the first Jewish president in ‘16 right after the first black one. ;)
115 | Irenicum Sun, May 2, 2010 7:55:00pm |
I’ve been here just over one year and have seen a decent turnover since I’ve arrived. But looking at that thread from 2007 is weird. I saw only a few names I recognized. No one else was familiar. What a difference!
116 | Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, May 2, 2010 7:55:06pm |
re: #108 Dark_Falcon
The best of those of that thread are still here, or at least have not been banned.
I didn’t go over the thread to see if I commented (probably not) but you sir, are correct.
117 | tradewind Sun, May 2, 2010 7:55:13pm |
re: #99 recusancy
He’s damn poor at financial management, IMO.
200K for hookers? And not all that many of them, according to the reports.
Surely he could have gotten a better rate.
118 | Decatur Deb Sun, May 2, 2010 7:55:19pm |
re: #88 JasonA
Also, it’s a shame we can’t say that when our government pays KBR $45/coke.
This is an Army Logistics slideshow. Around slide 20 it shows what we pay for battlefield fuel in SWA.
119 | Casual Talker Sun, May 2, 2010 7:55:36pm |
re: #109 tradewind
Bayou la Batre brown shrimp are the best in the world. Much tastier than the pink ones in the gulf. And the seafood dealers always sell out of them first.
I’ll really hate it if they’re messed up.
Best shrimp I ever had were Mediterranean jumbo prawns served Provencal water-side fresh off the boat. Couldn’t eat more than 4 - they were each the size of a small perch - unbelievable!
120 | prairiefire Sun, May 2, 2010 7:55:38pm |
re: #30 jamesfirecat
//There once was a time when there was such a thing as a sane Republican in office…
(I know my blue bias is showing)
They have tape for that./
121 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 7:56:16pm |
re: #114 recusancy
He subs on MSNBC sometimes and he destroys everyone he argues with. He could have been the first Jewish president in ‘16 right after the first black one. ;)
I’d like to see a female president sooner. A female Jew, perhaps?
122 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 7:57:01pm |
re: #117 tradewind
He’s damn poor at financial management, IMO.
200K for hookers? And not all that many of them, according to the reports.
Surely he could have gotten a better rate.
I think I once heard that he wanted to go bareback. Costs extra.
123 | jamesfirecat Sun, May 2, 2010 7:58:14pm |
re: #117 tradewind
He’s damn poor at financial management, IMO.
200K for hookers? And not all that many of them, according to the reports.
Surely he could have gotten a better rate.
/Just like a republican, always talking about how the common man could do more with their money then the government can!
124 | brookly red Sun, May 2, 2010 7:58:33pm |
re: #121 JasonA
I’d like to see a female president sooner. A female Jew, perhaps?
/isn’t Sarah a Jewish name? LOL
125 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 7:58:42pm |
re: #118 Decatur Deb
Darn it. Put in a new hard drive and I forgot to reinstall Adobe.
126 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 7:58:45pm |
WARNING… GRAPHIC AND DISGUSTING POST.
Hey All! As some of you know I am a devoted dog owner.
I had heard good things about a certain brand of dog food (which I will not mention because I am not writing an ad for them) so I went through my research routine to figure out if it was good stuff.
It occurred to me that many folks might not know what goes into pet food.
The painful bottom line is that many feeds are slickly packaged to convince us that we are doing the best for beloved pets. However, there is an unbelievable range of ingredients that gets used. High end foods have things in them that do not start out as waste products and try to balance out the nutritional needs of pets in a way that will not lead to obesity. The low end foods like Alpo and Purina are ways of getting rid of waste from slaughter houses (if you are lucky) and even euthanized pets.
Even brands that are very strongly recommended like Nutro or Science Diet are not so great (though much better than bottom tier).
It also unfortunately goes without saying that you should not buy feed from China.
Here is a list of definitions.
Here is an article
“The rendering plant floor is piled high with “raw product”… Thousands of dead dogs and cats; heads and hooves from cattle, sheep, pigs and horses; whole skunks; rats and raccoons… all waiting to be processed. In the ninety degree heat, the piles of dead animals seem to have a life of their own as millions of maggots swarm over the carcasses.
“Two bandanna-masked men begin operating Bobcat mini-dozers, loading the “raw” into a ten-foot deep stainless steel pit. They are undocumented workers from Mexico doing a dirty job. A giant auger at the bottom of the pit begins to turn. Popping bones and squeezing flesh are sounds from a nightmare you will never forget.
“Rendering is the process of cooking raw animal material to remove the moisture and fat. The rendering plant works like a giant kitchen. The cooker, or “chef”, blends the raw product in order to maintain a certain ratio between the carcasses of pets, livestock, poultry waste and supermarket rejects.
“Once the mass is cut into small pieces, it is transported to another auger for fine shredding. It is then cooked at 280 degrees for one hour. The continuous batch cooking process goes on non-stop, 24 hours a day, seven days a week as meat is melted away from bones in the hot “soup”. During this cooking process, the “soup” produces a fat of yellow grease or tallow that rises to the top and is skimmed off. The cooked meat and bone are sent to a hammer-mill press, which squeezes out the remaining moisture and pulverizes the product into a gritty powder. Shaker screens sift out excess hair and large bone chips. Once the batch is finished, all that is left is yellow grease, meat and bone meal.”
127 | reine.de.tout Sun, May 2, 2010 7:58:50pm |
re: #36 Decatur Deb
Bayou la Batre fishing is worth 400 million per year.
[Link: www.npr.org…]
They were offering $5,000?
Many of these folks, that’s all they do. And they have a few months each year to make their entire yearly income.
Here’s another tidbit in the link to the story you were responding to:
BP had distributed a contract to fishermen it was hiring that waived their right to sue BP and required confidentiality and other items, sparking protests in Louisiana and elsewhere.
The suit waivers have apparently been stripped out of the contracts, now, but originally, they were hiring only those folks who agreed not to sue?
pffffft.
No wonder the locals are upset.
128 | tradewind Sun, May 2, 2010 7:59:00pm |
re: #113 Dark_Falcon
Not the most horrible , but surely the most ridiculous thing that Edwards did in that whole affair was to deny the paternity of that little baby girl who could not look more like him if she had been cloned.
The minute I saw her picture I thought ’ little Silky! ‘.
129 | Cato the Elder Sun, May 2, 2010 7:59:44pm |
re: #118 Decatur Deb
This is an Army Logistics slideshow. Around slide 20 it shows what we pay for battlefield fuel in SWA.
[Link: dodfuelcell.cecer.army.mil…]
Could you please either quote the relevant passage or give a guy a damn PDF warning? Or both?
I hate that.
130 | recusancy Sun, May 2, 2010 7:59:44pm |
re: #128 tradewind
Not the most horrible , but surely the most ridiculous thing that Edwards did in that whole affair was to deny the paternity of that little baby girl who could not look more like him if she had been cloned.
The minute I saw her picture I thought ’ little Silky! ‘.
And being that the possible conception is on video tape.
131 | Fear the Blah People Sun, May 2, 2010 8:00:24pm |
re: #69 Decatur Deb
In your dreams. Check the history of the EXXON Valdez settlements through the appeals courts.
Exactly! Exxon took it to the supreme court - 20+ years later and won to pay less.
Give me a break. I don’t have faith in BP etc.
132 | Ojoe Sun, May 2, 2010 8:00:46pm |
re: #121 JasonA
It could be Sarah Palin, I think that might happen, I know Cato would have a fit, but politics is crazy.
133 | tradewind Sun, May 2, 2010 8:01:18pm |
re: #119 Casual Talker
They sound lovely….., but those ain’t shrimps. (Sorry, Cato).
:)
134 | Cato the Elder Sun, May 2, 2010 8:01:47pm |
re: #119 Casual Talker
Best shrimp I ever had were Mediterranean jumbo prawns served Provencal water-side fresh off the boat. Couldn’t eat more than 4 - they were each the size of a small perch - unbelievable!
Frank Zappa rule applies here - the smaller ones are tastier!
135 | Decatur Deb Sun, May 2, 2010 8:02:01pm |
re: #129 Cato the Elder
Could you please either quote the relevant passage or give a guy a damn PDF warning? Or both?
I hate that.
Sorry. Single slide would not copy out.
136 | fat bastard vegetarian Sun, May 2, 2010 8:02:13pm |
“Down the seven windmills road…”
What a horrible idea for karaoke… that song.
And American Pie.
Piano Man.
My Way.
137 | jamesfirecat Sun, May 2, 2010 8:02:19pm |
re: #132 Ojoe
It could be Sarah Palin, I think that might happen, I know Cato would have a fit, but politics is crazy.
/I hearby decree as Grand Firecat that you and Cato need to get icons that don’t look quite so much alike at first glance.
138 | Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, May 2, 2010 8:03:24pm |
re: #136 fat bastard vegetarian
“Down the seven windmills road…”
What a horrible idea for karaoke… that song.
And American Pie.
Piano Man.
My Way.
I always pick instrumentals.
/
139 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 8:03:28pm |
re: #127 reine.de.tout
The suit waivers have apparently been stripped out of the contracts, now, but originally, they were hiring only those folks who agreed not to sue?
pffft.
No wonder the locals are upset.
Which part of the oil industry has been evil since the days of the octopus (standard oil) needs to be recapitulated? It’s a huge industry and of course, there are good folks who work for hem. But the overall policy of the suits has always been of the most shady moral character. So much money and behind the scenes influence is involved that we should talk about separation of oil and state as much as church and state.
140 | fat bastard vegetarian Sun, May 2, 2010 8:04:10pm |
re: #126 LudwigVanQuixote
Whats surprising about that? What goes on in the production of human food is as bad as what goes on for our pets.
141 | SteveC Sun, May 2, 2010 8:04:23pm |
Seven windmills? Wait, I still haven’t figured out the three seashells!
143 | Ojoe Sun, May 2, 2010 8:05:04pm |
re: #137 jamesfirecat
Maybe I can find a color photo of Thomas Merton.
144 | Varek Raith Sun, May 2, 2010 8:05:05pm |
re: #141 SteveC
Seven windmills? Wait, I still haven’t figured out the three seashells!
*Laughs*
“He doesn’t know how to use the three seashells!”
145 | Casual Talker Sun, May 2, 2010 8:05:29pm |
re: #134 Cato the Elder
Frank Zappa rule applies here - the smaller ones are tastier!
Frank also said “There is no hell. There is only France.” I would disagree respectfully. I’ll give Frank credit, but he missed the boat on some things. We all make mistakes.
146 | tradewind Sun, May 2, 2010 8:05:53pm |
re: #127 reine.de.tout
I’m very glad to see that the AG immediately stepped in and said Oh no You Dih-unt….
147 | Dancing along the light of day Sun, May 2, 2010 8:06:00pm |
re: #81 Charles
Lots of long gone posters, in those comments.
148 | SteveC Sun, May 2, 2010 8:06:38pm |
re: #144 Varek Raith
*Laughs*
“He doesn’t know how to use the three seashells!”
Excuse me!
$%$^%#@!@@#
“You have violated….”
149 | Ojoe Sun, May 2, 2010 8:06:42pm |
I think the windmills are really really beautiful.
I like aircraft forms too.
I’m a tecchie I guess.
BBL
150 | Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, May 2, 2010 8:07:21pm |
re: #145 Casual Talker
Frank also said “There is no hell. There is only France.” I would disagree respectfully. I’ll give Frank credit, but he missed the boat on some things. We all make mistakes.
He also warned us not to eat yellow snow. Important to me since I live in Florida.
/
152 | Cato the Elder Sun, May 2, 2010 8:08:08pm |
re: #126 LudwigVanQuixote
WARNING… GRAPHIC AND DISGUSTING POST.
Hey All! As some of you know I am a devoted dog owner.
I had heard good things about a certain brand of dog food (which I will not mention because I am not writing an ad for them) so I went through my research routine to figure out if it was good stuff.
It occurred to me that many folks might not know what goes into pet food.
The painful bottom line is that many feeds are slickly packaged to convince us that we are doing the best for beloved pets. However, there is an unbelievable range of ingredients that gets used. High end foods have things in them that do not start out as waste products and try to balance out the nutritional needs of pets in a way that will not lead to obesity. The low end foods like Alpo and Purina are ways of getting rid of waste from slaughter houses (if you are lucky) and even euthanized pets.
Even brands that are very strongly recommended like Nutro or Science Diet are not so great (though much better than bottom tier).
It also unfortunately goes without saying that you should not buy feed from China.
Here is a list of definitions.
[Link: www.braypets.com…]
Here is an article
[Link: www.dogfoodadvisor.com…]
That quote reads like it was lifted straight from Upton Sinclair’s “The Jungle”, only now we feed ourselves slightly better meat and save that shite for out “pets”.
Thank God, Haku has allergies, so I have to feed him “special” food. Still, I’m none to eager to know exactly what goes into it, either.
And for all those who constantly say how there are legal immigrants or native-born Americans waiting to queue up for the dirty jobs, find me ten anywhere in the country who will run those Bobcats for what the “illegals” are getting paid.
153 | tradewind Sun, May 2, 2010 8:08:41pm |
re: #126 LudwigVanQuixote
Science Diet is teh swill. Their reps push it on vets like drug reps push samples on doctors.
Nutro can be okay, depending on the type. The organic is pretty good.
With any dog food, you read the label. If one of the first two ingredients is anything including the words ’ digest ’ or ’ meal ’ and is corn, it’s crap.
154 | Casual Talker Sun, May 2, 2010 8:09:37pm |
re: #150 Cannadian Club Akbar
He also warned us not to eat yellow snow. Important to me since I live in Florida.
/
I’m a Frankophile and on that piece of advice he was dead on. This one too… - “Politics is the entertainment branch of industry.”.
155 | Fear the Blah People Sun, May 2, 2010 8:10:01pm |
re: #132 Ojoe
It could be Sarah Palin, I think that might happen, I know Cato would have a fit, but politics is crazy.
Woe is us.
Forget Cato (although I agree with him plus plus plus - wish I was here during 2008)
But if SP is the GOP choice, woe is us.
156 | reine.de.tout Sun, May 2, 2010 8:10:06pm |
157 | Ojoe Sun, May 2, 2010 8:10:52pm |
re: #152 Cato the Elder
We have this Orange Tomcat, and he lives outside, and he’s very healthy, and when he eats a big rodent, there are parts of it that he will not eat.
It can’t be good to put just everything into that dog food.
BBL again…
158 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 8:11:23pm |
re: #140 fat bastard vegetarian
Whats surprising about that? What goes on in the production of human food is as bad as what goes on for our pets.
Not since the FDA was created. If you want to become truly nauseated, read the article I linked.
Low tier pet food is made from the unusable byproducts of the human food industry. That means all the carcasses of critters that dies in the CAFOS - and CAFOS are bad enough! (Thank you GOP for relaxing EPA regulations so that CAFOS were possible!) That means veterinary waste, meal waste from cattle feed operations (the stuff that farmers won’t feed their livestock) supermarket waste (actually the highest quality ingredient (but the plastic wrap too) and of course all the rodents and insects that live in a pile of such horrid waste.
One can argue that protein is protein - however that simply is not true. The primary ingredient is farm feed waste, which has very little nutritional value, and the gunk that gets listed as “meat by products” is stuff that includes all the bits that dogs would not normally eat. Also, there is of course no regulation on the contaminated things that go into the mix.
A catch of fish has too high a mercury rating.. NP you can still sell it to the pet food folks.
So no, it really is much worse than you think.
159 | freetoken Sun, May 2, 2010 8:11:53pm |
160 | Dark_Falcon Sun, May 2, 2010 8:11:59pm |
em>re: #126 LudwigVanQuixote
WARNING… GRAPHIC AND DISGUSTING POST.
Hey All! As some of you know I am a devoted dog owner.
I had heard good things about a certain brand of dog food (which I will not mention because I am not writing an ad for them) so I went through my research routine to figure out if it was good stuff.
It occurred to me that many folks might not know what goes into pet food.
The painful bottom line is that many feeds are slickly packaged to convince us that we are doing the best for beloved pets. However, there is an unbelievable range of ingredients that gets used. High end foods have things in them that do not start out as waste products and try to balance out the nutritional needs of pets in a way that will not lead to obesity. The low end foods like Alpo and Purina are ways of getting rid of waste from slaughter houses (if you are lucky) and even euthanized pets.
Even brands that are very strongly recommended like Nutro or Science Diet are not so great (though much better than bottom tier).
It also unfortunately goes without saying that you should not buy feed from China.
Here is a list of definitions.
[Link: www.braypets.com…]
Here is an article
[Link: www.dogfoodadvisor.com…]
Sounds like something written by Upton Sinclair about Chicago’s Union Stock Yards 100 years ago. Straight out of The Jungle, that post is.
162 | jamesfirecat Sun, May 2, 2010 8:12:54pm |
re: #155 Stanley Sea
Woe is us.
Forget Cato (although I agree with him plus plus plus - wish I was here during 2008)
But if SP is the GOP choice, woe is us.
Meanwhile we Democrats will be popping champagne corks and looking forward to the biggest Presidential land slide in the history of America that hasn’t involved wire tapping or little girls ripping apart flowers….
163 | reine.de.tout Sun, May 2, 2010 8:13:12pm |
re: #152 Cato the Elder
That quote reads like it was lifted straight from Upton Sinclair’s “The Jungle”, only now we feed ourselves slightly better meat and save that shite for out “pets”.
Thank God, Haku has allergies, so I have to feed him “special” food. Still, I’m none to eager to know exactly what goes into it, either.
And for all those who constantly say how there are legal immigrants or native-born Americans waiting to queue up for the dirty jobs, find me ten anywhere in the country who will run those Bobcats for what the “illegals” are getting paid.
If that place is truly being run the way described, it needs to be reported to any one (or all) of the agencies that regulate pet food production.
The person who wrote that article seems to care about pets; surely that caring extends to reporting these conditions when he finds them.
164 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 8:13:37pm |
re: #159 freetoken
Funny you should mention dogs… I was thinking today of a song that was popular back in the day amongst the college crowd:
[Video]It might offend some.
165 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 8:13:46pm |
166 | Killgore Trout Sun, May 2, 2010 8:14:49pm |
Reputable source?
BP told to stop circulating settlement agreements with coastal Alabamians
Alabama Attorney General Troy King said tonight that he has told representatives of BP Plc. that they should stop circulating settlement agreements among coastal Alabamians.
The agreements, King said, essentially require that people give up the right to sue in exchange for payment of up to $5,000.
167 | brookly red Sun, May 2, 2010 8:15:23pm |
my last dog lived to be a healthy 15 living mostly on human food…
168 | Cato the Elder Sun, May 2, 2010 8:15:24pm |
re: #163 reine.de.tout
If that place is truly being run the way described, it needs to be reported to any one (or all) of the agencies that regulate pet food production.
The person who wrote that article seems to care about pets; surely that caring extends to reporting these conditions when he finds them.
I’m pretty sure this is what rendering plants do, Reinedeer, and I’m not as hopeful as you are that it’s illegal.
169 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 8:15:45pm |
re: #163 reine.de.tout
If that place is truly being run the way described, it needs to be reported to any one (or all) of the agencies that regulate pet food production.
The person who wrote that article seems to care about pets; surely that caring extends to reporting these conditions when he finds them.
So the fact is that it is perfectly legal under current guidelines.
The only thing that is regulated is that they can not claim something is beef if it is not beef, so you see things like “natural meat byproducts (to give beef flavor)”.
170 | tradewind Sun, May 2, 2010 8:15:54pm |
Those windmills are starting to look like T-2000s.
Which reminds me…… Sarah Connor Chronicles was really starting to get decent, and the network deep-sixed it. I’m starting to believe that programming decisions are made by a bored maintenance man with a dart board.
171 | Nimed Sun, May 2, 2010 8:16:03pm |
re: #25 Charles
There once was a time when Duncan Hunter seemed like one of the sane Republicans.
Incidentally, that wouldn’t be a bad beginning for a fantasy novel (the title could be something like The Tragic Tale of Duncan the Hunter and His Slow Descent Into Madness.
Seriously though, I’m not sure he was that sane to begin with. He introduced the Parents Empowerment Act, which is pretty much what you would expect from a fanatic.
172 | Decatur Deb Sun, May 2, 2010 8:16:08pm |
re: #166 Killgore Trout
Reputable source?
BP told to stop circulating settlement agreements with coastal Alabamians
King is a hardcore Republican running for re-election. He’s not going to attack oil carelessly.
173 | Dark_Falcon Sun, May 2, 2010 8:16:18pm |
175 | Cato the Elder Sun, May 2, 2010 8:17:22pm |
176 | jamesfirecat Sun, May 2, 2010 8:18:20pm |
re: #170 tradewind
Those windmills are starting to look like T-2000s.
Which reminds me… Sarah Connor Chronicles was really starting to get decent, and the network deep-sixed it. I’m starting to believe that programming decisions are made by a bored maintenance man with a dart board.
Its was fox?
Did you not learn your lesson from Arrested Development and Firefly?
Rupert Murdoch feeds on our tears and sorrow so he learns just what shows we love and then cancels them.
Luckily the Simpsons is his one ring of power, should it ever go off the air he will be banished back to the land of shrimp on the bar-be….
177 | tradewind Sun, May 2, 2010 8:18:21pm |
re: #162 jamesfirecat
Relax, junior. She’s not going to be the nominee….. why take that pay cut?
And the Republican nominee will not arise from a tea party.
178 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 8:18:36pm |
re: #152 Cato the Elder
That quote reads like it was lifted straight from Upton Sinclair’s “The Jungle”, only now we feed ourselves slightly better meat and save that shite for out “pets”.
Thank God, Haku has allergies, so I have to feed him “special” food. Still, I’m none to eager to know exactly what goes into it, either.
And for all those who constantly say how there are legal immigrants or native-born Americans waiting to queue up for the dirty jobs, find me ten anywhere in the country who will run those Bobcats for what the “illegals” are getting paid.
OK so for dry food, I strongly recommend the following:
Blue Buffalo, Wellness, Newman’s Own.
However, you are best off feeding your dog a “dog tax” from your human food allotment.
Over Passover, I fed them a mix I made up of ground chicken, ground beef and ground matza (with carrots and peas).
179 | Fear the Blah People Sun, May 2, 2010 8:18:59pm |
re: #172 Decatur Deb
King is a hardcore Republican running for re-election. He’s not going to attack oil carelessly.
Everyone of those folks needs to talk to the people in Homer Alaska about how they feel today about Exxon before they do anything. Those folks got screwed. Many actually died before any settlement occurred, because it took 20+ years.
180 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 8:19:03pm |
“I aimed at the public’s heart, and by accident I hit it in the stomach.”
-Upton Sinclair
181 | reine.de.tout Sun, May 2, 2010 8:19:17pm |
re: #168 Cato the Elder
I’m pretty sure this is what rendering plants do, Reinedeer, and I’m not as hopeful as you are that it’s illegal.
The article LVQ linked to described a process full of dangerously contaminated stuff. That is not acceptable.
182 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 8:19:49pm |
re: #176 jamesfirecat
Its was fox?
Did you not learn your lesson from Arrested Development and Firefly?
Rupert Murdoch feeds on our tears and sorrow so he learns just what shows we love and then cancels them.
Luckily the Simpsons is his one ring of power, should it ever go off the air he will be banished back to the land of shrimp on the bar-be…
Ah, but Family Guy was able to prove Fox dead wrong.
and they didn’t learn shit.
183 | Vicious Babushka Sun, May 2, 2010 8:20:28pm |
re: #29 darthstar
Over 500 people (including one US border guard trying to save his dog) have died in the canal in the last year or so.
The article that I just read, said that 500 people have drowned since 1938. That’s not in the last year or so.
184 | tradewind Sun, May 2, 2010 8:20:59pm |
re: #166 Killgore Trout
That’s the Mobile Press-Register’s web site, together with the B’ham Post Herald. Probably pretty reliable.
Why do you doubt that a state AG would be indignant that a corporation….. a foreign corporation, to boot… would try to screw over his state?
185 | Cato the Elder Sun, May 2, 2010 8:21:01pm |
re: #181 reine.de.tout
The article LVQ linked to described a process full of dangerously contaminated stuff. That is not acceptable.
Not for humans. I’m betting for animal feed it’s perfectly legal.
Acceptable is another matter.
Anyone with expertise on this here?
186 | Decatur Deb Sun, May 2, 2010 8:21:10pm |
re: #178 LudwigVanQuixote
OK so for dry food, I strongly recommend the following:
Blue Buffalo, Wellness, Newman’s Own.
However, you are best off feeding your dog a “dog tax” from your human food allotment.
Over Passover, I fed them a mix I made up of ground chicken, ground beef and ground matza (with carrots and peas).
Evolution designed dogs to eat what we eat. (That assumes we eat what we are designed to eat.)
188 | SteveC Sun, May 2, 2010 8:21:20pm |
re: #176 jamesfirecat
Luckily the Simpsons is his one ring of power, should it ever go off the air he will be banished back to the land of shrimp on the bar-be…
So we have to beg/borrow/find/steal The Ring and throw it into Jane Skinner’s volcano?
I’m down with that.
189 | brookly red Sun, May 2, 2010 8:21:37pm |
re: #178 LudwigVanQuixote
OK so for dry food, I strongly recommend the following:
Blue Buffalo, Wellness, Newman’s Own.
However, you are best off feeding your dog a “dog tax” from your human food allotment.
Over Passover, I fed them a mix I made up of ground chicken, ground beef and ground matza (with carrots and peas).
I would go to a local butcher shop and they would be glad to give me the scraps, I would mix em with either brown rice or oatmeal & maybe some string beans…
190 | Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, May 2, 2010 8:21:40pm |
re: #182 JasonA
Ah, but Family Guy was able to prove Fox dead wrong.
and they didn’t learn shit.
Fox had 2 things when they started. The Simpson’s and the NFL. The NFL kept them afloat and they gradually rose from there.
191 | reine.de.tout Sun, May 2, 2010 8:21:44pm |
FDA on pet food:
Federal Food, Drug and Cosmetic ActThe Federal Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act requires that pet foods, like human foods, be pure and wholesome, contain no harmful or deleterious substances, and be truthfully labeled. The Act states, among many other things, that a food may be deemed to be adulterated if it contains poisonous or deleterious substances which may render it injurious to health; if it has been prepared, packed, or held under unsanitary conditions whereby it may have been contaminated with filth or rendered injurious to health; if it contains any part or product of a diseased animal; or if its container is composed of any poisonous or deleterious substance which may render its contents injurious to health.
192 | jamesfirecat Sun, May 2, 2010 8:21:52pm |
re: #182 JasonA
Ah, but Family Guy was able to prove Fox dead wrong.
and they didn’t learn shit.
I have begun to enjoy Family Guy less and less.
The hour long show tonight was awful in the extreme and I turned it off after about five minutes.
American Dad still going strong though!
193 | tradewind Sun, May 2, 2010 8:21:57pm |
re: #178 LudwigVanQuixote
Newman’s Own?
Bwahahahahahahahahahahah.
You’d be better off making a tax deductible contribution to the Hole-In-The-Wall-Gang, and getting the food somewhere else.
194 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 8:22:02pm |
re: #147 Floral Giraffe
Lots of long gone posters, in those comments.
No they are still here in spirit… scratching at the door… wishing to be returned after being cast out and banned to hell.
195 | prairiefire Sun, May 2, 2010 8:22:06pm |
re: #180 JasonA
“I aimed at the public’s heart, and by accident I hit it in the stomach.”
-Upton Sinclair
My grandfather met him while working at the Kansas City Star. My grandpa thought he was kind of strange, but my grandpa was a Cadillac driving, country club republican, so he might have been biased.
196 | swamprat Sun, May 2, 2010 8:22:50pm |
re: #182 JasonA
Ah, but Family Guy was able to prove Fox dead wrong.
and they didn’t learn shit.
I tried to watch tv again, today.
“Family Guy” was why I turned it off.
Learning to juggle
Laserhawk is on the DVD(yard sale 2 months ago.
197 | reine.de.tout Sun, May 2, 2010 8:23:01pm |
re: #185 Cato the Elder
Not for humans. I’m betting for animal feed it’s perfectly legal.
Acceptable is another matter.
Anyone with expertise on this here?
I worked for 15 years at the La. Dept of Agriculture.
The meat inspectors told me that the standards for pet food exceeded those for human food. They had no reason to lie to me.
198 | Nimed Sun, May 2, 2010 8:23:20pm |
re: #176 jamesfirecat
Its was fox?
Did you not learn your lesson from Arrested Development and Firefly?
Rupert Murdoch feeds on our tears and sorrow so he learns just what shows we love and then cancels them.
You can say that again. I have similar feelings towards HBO and Rome. I’m almost afraid to start watching A Game of Thrones
199 | prairiefire Sun, May 2, 2010 8:24:39pm |
re: #198 Nimed
You can say that again. I have similar feelings towards HBO and Rome. I’m almost afraid to start watching A Game of Thrones
That looks cool.
200 | Cato the Elder Sun, May 2, 2010 8:25:24pm |
re: #198 Nimed
You can say that again. I have similar feelings towards HBO and Rome. I’m almost afraid to start watching A Game of Thrones
Rome was only ever supposed to go two seasons. Basically following the career of my young countryman Octavian until he becomes the First Emperor.
201 | SteveC Sun, May 2, 2010 8:25:46pm |
re: #194 LudwigVanQuixote
No they are still here in spirit… scratching at the door… wishing to be returned after being cast out and banned to hell.
202 | Nimed Sun, May 2, 2010 8:25:54pm |
203 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 8:26:09pm |
re: #196 swamprat
I tried to watch tv again, today.
“Family Guy” was why I turned it off.
Learning to juggle
Laserhawk is on the DVD(yard sale 2 months ago.
It’s not for everyone. :)
204 | Cato the Elder Sun, May 2, 2010 8:26:48pm |
re: #197 reine.de.tout
I worked for 15 years at the La. Dept of Agriculture.
The meat inspectors told me that the standards for pet food exceeded those for human food. They had no reason to lie to me.
Maybe they were trying to make you feel better? The “exceeded” part sounds mighty fishy to me.
205 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 8:26:50pm |
re: #200 Cato the Elder
Rome was only ever supposed to go two seasons. Basically following the career of my young countryman Octavian until he becomes the First Emperor.
Not true from what I’ve read in interviews. It was just too damn expensive.
206 | jamesfirecat Sun, May 2, 2010 8:26:56pm |
re: #200 Cato the Elder
Rome was only ever supposed to go two seasons. Basically following the career of my young countryman Octavian until he becomes the First Emperor.
And they managed to wrap up Arrested Development in a satisfactory way after only two and a half seasons, that still doesn’t mean there shouldn’t have been more of it!
207 | prairiefire Sun, May 2, 2010 8:27:23pm |
re: #202 Nimed
If you haven’t read the novels, you envy you deeply.
Ok, I’ll envy me deeply. ; )
SFZ should know about this. She has mad sci-fi/fantasy skills.
208 | brookly red Sun, May 2, 2010 8:28:01pm |
uh oh… I just looked at my pocket change & there is a 1952 penny in almost perfect condition. In Brooklyn that means someones coin collection just got swiped…
209 | Kragar Sun, May 2, 2010 8:28:40pm |
re: #207 prairiefire
Ok, I’ll envy me deeply. ; )
SFZ should know about this. She has mad sci-fi/fantasy skills.
All I want is a TV series or movie based around the adventures of Gotrek and Felix.
210 | Nimed Sun, May 2, 2010 8:28:46pm |
re: #200 Cato the Elder
Rome was only ever supposed to go two seasons. Basically following the career of my young countryman Octavian until he becomes the First Emperor.
Eh eh.
But so much cool stuff would happen if they had continued the series!
Snif…
212 | SteveC Sun, May 2, 2010 8:28:50pm |
re: #201 SteveC
That was the phone number from the movie Ghostbusters. :(
“We are ready to believe you!”
213 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 8:28:53pm |
re: #185 Cato the Elder
Not for humans. I’m betting for animal feed it’s perfectly legal.
Acceptable is another matter.
Anyone with expertise on this here?
As I said, it is perfectly legal.
Believe me when I first got into studying this, after I found out the goings on, I asked lots of those questions to the various legal types in my family.
There is no regulation on the ingredients to pet food. If you can prove that a certain food poisoned your pet to death, you might have a law suit, but it would be difficult to prove and the settlement would generally not offset the court costs.
About the best you can do is get them on the illegal labor angle or on certain EPA violations if their plant effects ground water. However, many of these plants are in states like Texas whose legislatures are predisposed to hate environmental regulations for a reason. I will find the link, but one plant is notorious for taking the dead cats and dogs from high kill shelters and adding them to the mix.
As a consumer though, there are people who know about this and there is a sufficient market for the high end pet foods that it is possible to buy things that are not wholly terrible.
214 | freetoken Sun, May 2, 2010 8:28:57pm |
215 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 8:29:01pm |
Martin’s “A Song of Ice Fire” is one of the most loved fantasies written in recent times. It’s not finished yet, much to our chagrin, but I’d recommend it to anyone who might have an interest in the genre.
216 | reine.de.tout Sun, May 2, 2010 8:29:20pm |
re: #204 Cato the Elder
Maybe they were trying to make you feel better? The “exceeded” part sounds mighty fishy to me.
It sounded fishy to me too.
No, I had no pets at the time, I just came across some folks in the hall one day, talking about a place they had closed down because the rat excrement found at the place exceeded the requiremens. So we just got to talking, it was a general conversation, and they made the comment that the standards for pet food exceeded those for human food. I was surprised but they insisted it was absolutely true. Again, just a general conversation I happened upon, and they, I guess, appreciated my interest and that particular item stuck with me.
217 | Reginald Perrin Sun, May 2, 2010 8:29:37pm |
re: #194 LudwigVanQuixote
No they are still here in spirit… scratching at the door…
Don’t be so modest, Ludwig. They are here to read and then obsess over what you write.
218 | tradewind Sun, May 2, 2010 8:29:50pm |
re: #176 jamesfirecat
Fox has an incredible lock on prime time….. the other three don’t come close.
NBC has cancelled more excellent shows than any of the other networks, IMO. I’m still missing Charlie Crews from Life.
219 | Fear the Blah People Sun, May 2, 2010 8:30:03pm |
Anyone really interested in the history of oil spills (Exxon Valdez) etc. I am going to post a link to themudflats.net - an Alaskan blog. This is an entry talking about the event in the Gulf.
Go down approx 1/2 way in the post (below the photo of the oil soaked bird from Valdez) to see a very interesting email the blogger received. It discusses the platform in the Gulf that just failed, how it was state of the art etc.
220 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 8:30:28pm |
re: #218 tradewind
Fox has an incredible lock on prime time… the other three don’t come close.
NBC has cancelled more excellent shows than any of the other networks, IMO. I’m still missing Charlie Crews from Life.
Life was one of my favorite shows when it was on.
221 | swamprat Sun, May 2, 2010 8:30:39pm |
re: #203 JasonA
It’s not for everyone. :)
No, it’s not. Especially when you are starting with 2 lb pilates exercise balls.
222 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 8:30:54pm |
re: #191 reine.de.tout
FDA on pet food:
Yes and that is all subject to debate and legal fees. The fact is that the FDA was cut to the quick and has a hard enough time enforcing the human food industry.
One could imagine the law being aggressively enforced on the federal level… but one would be imagining.
223 | Dancing along the light of day Sun, May 2, 2010 8:31:46pm |
re: #194 LudwigVanQuixote
No they are still here in spirit… scratching at the door… wishing to be returned after being cast out and banned to hell.
I think many of them, were smart enough to move on with their lives.
I wish they all were, but I’m not in charge of their heads.
Charles is!
224 | Achilles Tang Sun, May 2, 2010 8:32:29pm |
re: #152 Cato the Elder
That quote reads like it was lifted straight from Upton Sinclair’s “The Jungle”, only now we feed ourselves slightly better meat and save that shite for out “pets”.
Thank God, Haku has allergies, so I have to feed him “special” food. Still, I’m none to eager to know exactly what goes into it, either.
And for all those who constantly say how there are legal immigrants or native-born Americans waiting to queue up for the dirty jobs, find me ten anywhere in the country who will run those Bobcats for what the “illegals” are getting paid.
I doubt humans have ever given their “pets” first choice of the available food, but while I kind of get why you put “pets” in quotes, I don’t get why you put “illegals” in quotes.
Am I nitpicking here? Either they are or they are not.
225 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 8:32:55pm |
Speaking of Game of Thrones, I love the voice of the narrator they picked for the audiobook:
226 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 8:33:35pm |
re: #217 Reginald Perrin
Don’t be so modest, Ludwig. They are here to read and then obsess over what you write.
Well I suppose I am their current least favorite lizard. They really hate the whole science bit and pointing out the memes and messages of the early Nazis.
However, I take that “crown” after a long line of far greater lizards who have gone before me, like Reine, KT, you Hoops and Ice. I am not worthy of such honor.
227 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 8:34:24pm |
re: #225 JasonA
Speaking of Game of Thrones, I love the voice of the narrator they picked for the audiobook:
[Link: www.audible.com…]
Best damn fantasy series ever. I will blaspheme and say that I even like it better than Tolkien and Fiest.
228 | emcesq Sun, May 2, 2010 8:34:31pm |
1 mile north of SR 98? That is just 2 mi detour -
Check maps.google.com; search for “all american canal Calexico”
(one needs to check the mentioned web site and list of casualties)
229 | reine.de.tout Sun, May 2, 2010 8:35:19pm |
re: #222 LudwigVanQuixote
Yes and that is all subject to debate and legal fees. The fact is that the FDA was cut to the quick and has a hard enough time enforcing the human food industry.
One could imagine the law being aggressively enforced on the federal level… but one would be imagining.
Louisiana does its own inspections through what’s called a “cooperative” agreement with the feds. They don’t inspect here; our own inspectors do the inspecting.
At any rate - it wasn’t the ingredients that grossed me out, they are what they are, I mean LVQ - I live in a place where people eat pickled pig snouts and head cheese, and love ‘em.
It was the unsanitary conditions at the place that totally grossed me out. Ugh.
230 | Kragar Sun, May 2, 2010 8:35:49pm |
re: #227 LudwigVanQuixote
Best damn fantasy series ever. I will blaspheme and say that I even like it better than Tolkien and Fiest.
HERETIC!
231 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 8:36:01pm |
re: #215 JasonA
Martin’s “A Song of Ice Fire” is one of the most loved fantasies written in recent times. It’s not finished yet, much to our chagrin, but I’d recommend it to anyone who might have an interest in the genre.
It is the only series in the genre that truly is literary in scope, style and depth of character. It is to Tolkien what the new BSG was to the old one.
232 | Nimed Sun, May 2, 2010 8:36:54pm |
re: #215 JasonA
Martin’s “A Song of Ice Fire” is one of the most loved fantasies written in recent times. It’s not finished yet, much to our chagrin, but I’d recommend it to anyone who might have an interest in the genre.
I would like to upding your comment 100 times. I can only add to that it’s the proverbial Fantasy Novel That People Who Don’t Like the Fantasy Genre Should Read.
233 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 8:37:06pm |
re: #227 LudwigVanQuixote
Best damn fantasy series ever. I will blaspheme and say that I even like it better than Tolkien and Fiest.
By book three, Storm of Swords, this series totally eclipses anything Tolkien wrote for me.
234 | Nimed Sun, May 2, 2010 8:37:48pm |
re: #227 LudwigVanQuixote
Best damn fantasy series ever. I will blaspheme and say that I even like it better than Tolkien and Fiest.
I enthusiastically subscribe your heresy!
235 | Dark_Falcon Sun, May 2, 2010 8:38:25pm |
236 | reine.de.tout Sun, May 2, 2010 8:39:05pm |
re: #139 LudwigVanQuixote
Which part of the oil industry has been evil since the days of the octopus (standard oil) needs to be recapitulated? It’s a huge industry and of course, there are good folks who work for hem. But the overall policy of the suits has always been of the most shady moral character. So much money and behind the scenes influence is involved that we should talk about separation of oil and state as much as church and state.
The Roi has always told me - if anything happens to him, I will be contacted and offered a settlement, and I should NOT take it until I’ve gotten legal counsel.
237 | Cato the Elder Sun, May 2, 2010 8:39:44pm |
re: #224 Naso Tang
I doubt humans have ever given their “pets” first choice of the available food, but while I kind of get why you put “pets” in quotes, I don’t get why you put “illegals” in quotes.
Am I nitpicking here? Either they are or they are not.
I don’t care if they’re “illegal” or not. That’s my point of view on the whole question.
238 | tradewind Sun, May 2, 2010 8:39:54pm |
re: #226 LudwigVanQuixote
I suspect it’s just the brevity thing.
Maybe if you elaborated a little…
:)
240 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 8:40:54pm |
re: #232 Nimed
I would like to upding your comment 100 times. I can only add to that it’s the proverbial Fantasy Novel That People Who Don’t Like the Fantasy Genre Should Read.
They do have to be a good reader, though. There are a lot of characters to follow.
241 | The Bunny Sun, May 2, 2010 8:40:59pm |
re: #226 LudwigVanQuixote
Thank you for educating us and making this place such a storehouse of fascinating information.
Thanks!
242 | Dancing along the light of day Sun, May 2, 2010 8:41:06pm |
re: #227 LudwigVanQuixote
OK, put in my LGF Amazon cart! Thank you!
243 | Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, May 2, 2010 8:41:40pm |
re: #236 reine.de.tout
The Roi has always told me - if anything happens to him, I will be contacted and offered a settlement, and I should NOT take it until I’ve gotten legal counsel.
You never do anything without a lawyer when law is applied.
244 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 8:42:06pm |
re: #233 JasonA
By book three, Storm of Swords, this series totally eclipses anything Tolkien wrote for me.
Well they are two totally different things. The star of Tolkien’s writig is Middle Earth itself. However his plots and characters are more than a little one dimensional - which was by design. He was after all going for a myth made from scratch.
The Song of Ice and Fire is about characters who are deeply memorable and the plot is as complex and page turning and unpredictable (yet satisfyingly so) as anything I have ever read. The twits in it are my favorite kind - you never saw them coming, but once revealed make perfect sense, were actually subtly hinted at and move the story forward in a cool way, rather than just being a “twist” for the sake of a twist.
With Tolkien, every little detail of the world he built mattered and had a back story. With Martin every little character matters and has a profound effect on something.
246 | Dancing along the light of day Sun, May 2, 2010 8:42:16pm |
re: #187 Reginald Perrin
Nada, aqui!
//
247 | Charles Johnson Sun, May 2, 2010 8:42:38pm |
Tomorrow I’ll know how the CGC graded the Lizard Collection’s copy of X-Men #1.
It took them about a month to get it appraised and sent back. They said “two business weeks.”
248 | Nimed Sun, May 2, 2010 8:43:08pm |
re: #233 JasonA
By book three, Storm of Swords, this series totally eclipses anything Tolkien wrote for me.
Ok, now I’m really, REALLY glad I joined LGF.
249 | iceweasel Sun, May 2, 2010 8:43:10pm |
re: #194 LudwigVanQuixote
No they are still here in spirit… scratching at the door… wishing to be returned after being cast out and banned to hell.
Jimmah and I are looking at that thread now. Yikes.
250 | Achilles Tang Sun, May 2, 2010 8:43:18pm |
re: #237 Cato the Elder
I don’t care if they’re “illegal” or not. That’s my point of view on the whole question.
Perhaps I missed the question. If you meant regarding compassion and saving lives we have no disagreement, except that I would prefer to spend the money on keeping people from getting to a canal, rather than having to pull them from it.
As to the meaning of illegal; I do think it has meaning.
251 | jamesfirecat Sun, May 2, 2010 8:43:21pm |
re: #244 LudwigVanQuixote
Well they are two totally different things. The star of Tolkien’s writig is Middle Earth itself. However his plots and characters are more than a little one dimensional - which was by design. He was after all going for a myth made from scratch.
The Song of Ice and Fire is about characters who are deeply memorable and the plot is as complex and page turning and unpredictable (yet satisfyingly so) as anything I have ever read. The twits in it are my favorite kind - you never saw them coming, but once revealed make perfect sense, were actually subtly hinted at and move the story forward in a cool way, rather than just being a “twist” for the sake of a twist.
With Tolkien, every little detail of the world he built mattered and had a back story. With Martin every little character matters and has a profound effect on something.
One small thing… “The twits in it are my favorite kind”
Upper class?
252 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 8:43:36pm |
re: #241 The Bunny
Thank you for educating us and making this place such a storehouse of fascinating information.
Thanks!
You are very welcome.
253 | reine.de.tout Sun, May 2, 2010 8:44:01pm |
re: #226 LudwigVanQuixote
Well I suppose I am their current least favorite lizard. They really hate the whole science bit and pointing out the memes and messages of the early Nazis.
However, I take that “crown” after a long line of far greater lizards who have gone before me, like Reine, KT, you Hoops and Ice. I am not worthy of such honor.
Oh, pffft.
Of course you are worthy!
I’m a mere tiny tiny cog, and I’m here specifically because it’s such an honor to have access to folks like you, Cato, Ren Man is probably gonna be on that list, SFZ, Killgore, and many others whose knowledge I get the benefit of. Even when I disagree.
254 | Fear the Blah People Sun, May 2, 2010 8:44:39pm |
re: #236 reine.de.tout
The Roi has always told me - if anything happens to him, I will be contacted and offered a settlement, and I should NOT take it until I’ve gotten legal counsel.
You would have to keep your head. That’s the problem with any tragedy, including the current future tragedy affecting the fishermen, you are not thinking clearly. They know that.
I am really pissed that there apparently has been a “no sue” clause put forth by BP. I guess it’s standard, but it’s taking advantage.
255 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 8:44:57pm |
re: #249 iceweasel
Jimmah and I are looking at that thread now. Yikes.
Ohhh sounds charming… How about we talk less nauseating things like what goes into low grade pet food?
256 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 8:45:30pm |
re: #253 reine.de.tout
Oh, pffft.
Of course you are worthy!I’m a mere tiny tiny cog, and I’m here specifically because it’s such an honor to have access to folks like you, Cato, Ren Man is probably gonna be on that list, SFZ, Killgore, and many others whose knowledge I get the benefit of. Even when I disagree.
I do adore you. But you are more important to LGF than that.
257 | Cato the Elder Sun, May 2, 2010 8:45:33pm |
re: #247 Charles
Tomorrow I’ll know how the CGC graded the Lizard Collection’s copy of X-Men #1.
It took them about a month to get it appraised and sent back. They said “two business weeks.”
Well, that is about a month by American standards.
258 | Nimed Sun, May 2, 2010 8:46:28pm |
re: #244 LudwigVanQuixote
Well they are two totally different things. The star of Tolkien’s writig is Middle Earth itself. However his plots and characters are more than a little one dimensional - which was by design. He was after all going for a myth made from scratch.
The Song of Ice and Fire is about characters who are deeply memorable and the plot is as complex and page turning and unpredictable (yet satisfyingly so) as anything I have ever read. The twits in it are my favorite kind - you never saw them coming, but once revealed make perfect sense, were actually subtly hinted at and move the story forward in a cool way, rather than just being a “twist” for the sake of a twist.
With Tolkien, every little detail of the world he built mattered and had a back story. With Martin every little character matters and has a profound effect on something.
/Nimed momentarily sits back, tired of violently nodding at the computer screen
259 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 8:47:22pm |
re: #244 LudwigVanQuixote
LOL PIMF
Well they are two totally different things. The star of Tolkien’s writing is Middle Earth itself. However his plots and characters are more than a little one dimensional - which was by design. He was after all going for a myth made from scratch.
The Song of Ice and Fire is about characters who are deeply memorable and the plot is as complex and page turning and unpredictable (yet satisfyingly so) as anything I have ever read. The twists in it are my favorite kind - you never saw them coming, but once revealed make perfect sense, were actually subtly hinted at and move the story forward in a cool way, rather than just being a “twist” for the sake of a twist.
With Tolkien, every little detail of the world he built mattered and had a back story. With Martin, every little character matters and has a profound effect on something.
260 | Cato the Elder Sun, May 2, 2010 8:47:48pm |
re: #233 JasonA
By book three, Storm of Swords, this series totally eclipses anything Tolkien wrote for me.
Well, I haven’t seen the stuff Tolkien wrote for you, but so far the stuff he wrote first for his kids and then for the rest of us remains forever uneclipsed.
261 | reine.de.tout Sun, May 2, 2010 8:47:50pm |
re: #247 Charles
Tomorrow I’ll know how the CGC graded the Lizard Collection’s copy of X-Men #1.
It took them about a month to get it appraised and sent back. They said “two business weeks.”
sheesh.
How long would it take them to appraise the whole collection?
262 | iceweasel Sun, May 2, 2010 8:48:08pm |
re: #257 Cato the Elder
Well, that is about a month by American standards.
Isn’t ‘business days’ the more usual expression? What I’m getting at is maybe they meant “14 working days”, which would be three weeks. BTW, I hate the ‘business days’ euphemism. Maybe ‘business week’ is a brand new one meant to convey “7 working days”. Feh.
263 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 8:48:21pm |
re: #247 Charles
Tomorrow I’ll know how the CGC graded the Lizard Collection’s copy of X-Men #1.
It took them about a month to get it appraised and sent back. They said “two business weeks.”
So umm would you be willing to fund some research? I only need one laser…
264 | Cato the Elder Sun, May 2, 2010 8:48:43pm |
re: #251 jamesfirecat
One small thing… “The twits in it are my favorite kind”
Upper class?
No good multi-volume tale can do without twits.
266 | reine.de.tout Sun, May 2, 2010 8:49:19pm |
re: #254 Stanley Sea
You would have to keep your head. That’s the problem with any tragedy, including the current future tragedy affecting the fishermen, you are not thinking clearly. They know that.
I am really pissed that there apparently has been a “no sue” clause put forth by BP. I guess it’s standard, but it’s taking advantage.
It’s standard. But what they offered is really disgustingly and condescendingly low, all things considered.
267 | jamesfirecat Sun, May 2, 2010 8:49:28pm |
re: #260 Cato the Elder
Well, I haven’t seen the stuff Tolkien wrote for you, but so far the stuff he wrote first for his kids and then for the rest of us remains forever uneclipsed.
Just to share a family story, my dad read first the hobbit and then Lord of the Rings to me and my brother as bed time stories… I don’t think we ever made it Return of the King, we were in the Hobbit’s section of Two Towers as best I can recall…
If the poor guys’ ever in a nursing home (G-d forbid) I’ll make sure to read all of them to him just cause…
268 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 8:49:32pm |
269 | tradewind Sun, May 2, 2010 8:50:49pm |
re: #233 JasonA
littlegreenfootballs.com
Now you meet Sting!
270 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 8:50:57pm |
re: #244 LudwigVanQuixote
In my humble opinion Martin’s prose is far superior to Tolkien’s, and that goes a long way for me.
271 | Dark_Falcon Sun, May 2, 2010 8:51:03pm |
272 | Dancing along the light of day Sun, May 2, 2010 8:51:17pm |
re: #247 Charles
Are you going to share that info. with the Lizards?
273 | Nimed Sun, May 2, 2010 8:52:00pm |
re: #240 JasonA
They do have to be a good reader, though. There are a lot of characters to follow.
And you have to resist the occasional temptation to jump to the next Tyrion or Arya chapter.
274 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 8:52:42pm |
re: #260 Cato the Elder
Well, I haven’t seen the stuff Tolkien wrote for you, but so far the stuff he wrote first for his kids and then for the rest of us remains forever uneclipsed.
Have you read the series we’re discussing?
275 | Cato the Elder Sun, May 2, 2010 8:53:32pm |
re: #250 Naso Tang
Perhaps I missed the question. If you meant regarding compassion and saving lives we have no disagreement, except that I would prefer to spend the money on keeping people from getting to a canal, rather than having to pull them from it.
As to the meaning of illegal; I do think it has meaning.
Of course it has meaning.
To me it means “if you’re here and can do the job on my house/car/boat/whatever, I couldn’t care less where you came from, what papers you have in your wallet, or whether you are a reptilian from the planet Burrblejerky.”
That’s my personal take on it, of course.
276 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 8:53:45pm |
re: #273 Nimed
And you have to resist the occasional temptation to jump to the next Tyrion or Arya chapter.
Tyrion, Jon and Dany in my case. I love Dany.
277 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 8:54:30pm |
re: #264 Cato the Elder
No good multi-volume tale can do without twits.
I meant twists, however there are some notable “lordlings” in the story as well.
One of the thing that Martin does well, better than most novelists who write “literature” is growing, changing, multi dimensional characters.
Some of the twits grow up. Some of the bad guys are actually very noble, but on the wrong side (only done well and in a mature fashion) his real bad guys are so terrible that they make any Tolkien villain look silly not in terms of power, but in terms of being truly loathsome and evil such that you are begging for the satisfying moment when they get clipped (which may or may not come). Some start that way but find themselves redeeming themselves.
Also the world has consistent rules. There is magic, but it is not worked in such a way where you have to wonder why wizards just took over, like you would in other series and more importantly, just enough is left to the imagination for how it woks, that it is spooky and mystical without being silly.
278 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 8:54:43pm |
I’m not putting Tolkien down, for the record. I think I need to clear that up.
279 | Charles Johnson Sun, May 2, 2010 8:54:59pm |
280 | Cato the Elder Sun, May 2, 2010 8:55:19pm |
re: #274 JasonA
Have you read the series we’re discussing?
No. Something by someone named Martin?
I’m more likely to finally finish the Silmarillion first, to be perfectly honest. Or just reread the Ring for the dozenth time.
281 | tradewind Sun, May 2, 2010 8:55:37pm |
re: #272 Floral Giraffe
Wow. I had no idea these things went for that much.
comicspriceguide.com
282 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 8:55:43pm |
re: #280 Cato the Elder
No. Something by someone named Martin?
I’m more likely to finally finish the Silmarillion first, to be perfectly honest. Or just reread the Ring for the dozenth time.
Elitist!
283 | jamesfirecat Sun, May 2, 2010 8:56:52pm |
re: #280 Cato the Elder
No. Something by someone named Martin?
I’m more likely to finally finish the Silmarillion first, to be perfectly honest. Or just reread the Ring for the dozenth time.
You know in a few of the things I’ve written I’ve included a character named Melkore Morningstar… and nobody ever gets what I’m aiming at with that name….
285 | Cato the Elder Sun, May 2, 2010 8:57:13pm |
re: #282 JasonA
Elitist!
Not. I missed the start of this subthread, and would appreciate the full name of the author and the titles.
287 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 8:57:30pm |
re: #276 JasonA
Tyrion, Jon and Dany in my case. I love Dany.
Everyone loves Daneries. Jon is just the epitome of noble, and Tyrion is the best fantasy character ever. Arya is the cool little sister we always wanted.
To make a parallel,
Ice and Fire has characters as charming as Firefly, more grit than BSG and an epic scope like B5 without ever becoming campy.
288 | Kragar Sun, May 2, 2010 8:57:42pm |
Waiting on November for my next big fantasy fix.
289 | Dancing along the light of day Sun, May 2, 2010 8:58:25pm |
re: #281 tradewind
Wow. I had no idea these things went for that much.
[Link: www.comicspriceguide.com…]
And, the Charles Lizard Collection is around 300 fabulously preserved books!
WOO HOO!
290 | Dancing along the light of day Sun, May 2, 2010 8:59:08pm |
re: #288 Kragar (proud to be kafir)
Waiting on November for my next big fantasy fix.
What happens in November?
291 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 8:59:16pm |
re: #285 Cato the Elder
Not. I missed the start of this subthread, and would appreciate the full name of the author and the titles.
Ah. The author is George RR Martin. The series is named “A Song of Ice and Fire.” The books are:
1. A Game of Thrones
2. A Clash of Kings
3. A Storm of Swords
4. A Feast for Crows
And George, if you’re reading this, book 5 can come out any time now…
292 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 9:00:43pm |
293 | Cato the Elder Sun, May 2, 2010 9:00:44pm |
Anybody here ever read Doris Lessing’s sci-fi novels, “Canopus in Argos: Archives”?
The first one, “Shikasta”, is about Earth from an alien perspective. I found it riveting back in 1979.
294 | Kragar Sun, May 2, 2010 9:01:16pm |
295 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 9:01:24pm |
re: #280 Cato the Elder
No. Something by someone named Martin?
I’m more likely to finally finish the Silmarillion first, to be perfectly honest. Or just reread the Ring for the dozenth time.
Silmarillion is my favorite of the Tolkien because it is the core “nuts and bolts” of Middle Earth. It is the First and Second Age. It is the grand mythos that Tolkien was shooting for - the mythos behind his mythos.
The Ice and Fire series by George R. R. Martin (also an R.R.) is not going for a mythos in the same way. It is an epic where part of the thrill is figuring out hat is going on in a very satisfying story that starts out complex and stays that way.
296 | Nimed Sun, May 2, 2010 9:03:02pm |
re: #278 JasonA
I’m not putting Tolkien down, for the record. I think I need to clear that up.
It really depends on your personal reading history. My debut in the fantasy genre were the inferior Dragonlance novels in my teenage years. Also played a fair amount of RPGs. By the time I picked up LOTR at 19, it felt a little formulaic. I knew LOTR started it all, but I couldn’t shake the sensation nevertheless.
297 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 9:03:26pm |
re: #283 jamesfirecat
You know in a few of the things I’ve written I’ve included a character named Melkore Morningstar… and nobody ever gets what I’m aiming at with that name…
One of the ways I knew the GF was right for me was when she made a comment in Sindarin :)
Ohhh but she claims she is not a nerd girl :)
298 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 9:03:55pm |
re: #294 Kragar (proud to be kafir)
I was right!
Funny thing, I started reading Eye of the World years ago. I got half way through it and put it down because it seemed to derive too much from Tolkien. I recently read of an interview with Jordan where he claims that was intentional because he didn’t think people would like it if it wasn’t. Apparently it quickly starts being unique right around where I put it down. I might have to give it another shot.
299 | bratwurst Sun, May 2, 2010 9:04:19pm |
re: #177 tradewind
Relax, junior.
Speaking of which, are you breathing easier now that the Enquirer has backed off of their “Obama sex scandal” story? I was afraid you were going to be upset about that all weekend!
300 | jamesfirecat Sun, May 2, 2010 9:04:30pm |
re: #297 LudwigVanQuixote
One of the ways I knew the GF was right for me was when she made a comment in Sindarin :)
Ohhh but she claims she is not a nerd girl :)
Nice, so do you get how Melkore Morningstar is not only a clever bit of alliteration but also has a deeper meaning?
301 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 9:05:40pm |
re: #300 jamesfirecat
Nice, so do you get how Melkore Morningstar is not only a clever bit of alliteration but also has a deeper meaning?
In that he is the Lucifer of the Silmarillion…
302 | Kragar Sun, May 2, 2010 9:05:46pm |
re: #298 JasonA
I was right!
Funny thing, I started reading Eye of the World years ago. I got half way through it and put it down because it seemed to derive too much from Tolkien. I recently read of an interview with Jordan where he claims that was intentional because he didn’t think people would like it if it wasn’t. Apparently it quickly starts being unique right around where I put it down. I might have to give it another shot.
Once more of the Foresaken get into play and the Seanchan arrive, it really picks up, then we get the Aiel and the Ashaman later on.
303 | Dancing along the light of day Sun, May 2, 2010 9:06:11pm |
re: #294 Kragar (proud to be kafir)
OK, I just bought some.
Charles made a couple of pennies from my Amazon, used purchase!
304 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 9:06:27pm |
re: #296 Nimed
It really depends on your personal reading history. My debut in the fantasy genre were the inferior Dragonlance novels in my teenage years. Also played a fair amount of RPGs. By the time I picked up LOTR at 19, it felt a little formulaic. I knew LOTR started it all, but I couldn’t shake the sensation nevertheless.
Yeah, but those D&D novels, especially the ones by Hickman and Weis and anything by Salvatore, are great if you’re in your in your teens.
305 | Cato the Elder Sun, May 2, 2010 9:07:49pm |
re: #295 LudwigVanQuixote
Silmarillion is my favorite of the Tolkien because it is the core “nuts and bolts” of Middle Earth. It is the First and Second Age. It is the grand mythos that Tolkien was shooting for - the mythos behind his mythos.
The Ice and Fire series by George R. R. Martin (also an R.R.) is not going for a mythos in the same way. It is an epic where part of the thrill is figuring out hat is going on in a very satisfying story that starts out complex and stays that way.
I have to wonder, cynical bastard that I am, whether George Martin inserted the “R.R.” like John Kerry did the “F.” so he could be a little more JFKish.
The thing I admire about Tolkien is that he did the whole backstory first, including fully-fleshed out languages and scripts, with no idea it would ever be published. Then he wrote “The Hobbit” for his children. Then he set about LotR, also with little hope that it was publishable. The children’s book was a hit, and the rest is history.
To my knowledge there are masses of notebooks that have still not seen the light of day.
306 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 9:07:51pm |
re: #302 Kragar (proud to be kafir)
Once more of the Foresaken get into play and the Seanchan arrive, it really picks up, then we get the Aiel and the Ashaman later on.
How is Sanderson’s writing? I haven’t made the leap to read anything by him yet.
307 | jamesfirecat Sun, May 2, 2010 9:08:04pm |
308 | Dancing along the light of day Sun, May 2, 2010 9:08:12pm |
re: #304 JasonA
Yeah, but those D&D novels, especially the ones by Hickman and Weis and anything by Salvatore, are great if you’re in your in your teens.
Well, I am most definitely NOT in my teens, and I am looking forward to some new, recommended Sci-Fi. So there!
309 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 9:08:17pm |
re: #298 JasonA
I was right!
Funny thing, I started reading Eye of the World years ago. I got half way through it and put it down because it seemed to derive too much from Tolkien. I recently read of an interview with Jordan where he claims that was intentional because he didn’t think people would like it if it wasn’t. Apparently it quickly starts being unique right around where I put it down. I might have to give it another shot.
I put down the first book for the same reasons. I am told that the later books become some sort of crack like addiction, but so far I have stayed immune. That said, I have many friends who will be reading those monsters until their eyes bleed - apparently one 900 page book covers two days of back story in which nothing happens to advance the plot- and they keep coming back for more.
310 | jamesfirecat Sun, May 2, 2010 9:09:00pm |
re: #304 JasonA
Yeah, but those D&D novels, especially the ones by Hickman and Weis and anything by Salvatore, are great if you’re in your in your teens.
Yes they were, I loved War of the Lance and War of Souls even though the series got progressively darker and darker and darker and well you get the idea.
311 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 9:09:38pm |
re: #309 LudwigVanQuixote
At this point I’m willing to believe they may be really good, but thinking of reading a 12 book series is giving me physical pain.
312 | Kragar Sun, May 2, 2010 9:12:37pm |
re: #306 JasonA
How is Sanderson’s writing? I haven’t made the leap to read anything by him yet.
Not bad. I met him at a booksigning when his first WOT book. Nice guy. His Mistborn trilogy was pretty good. Jordan’s wife decided he was the only person capable of finishing the series, and he has full access all of Jordan’s materials and team. He said some portions of Jordan’s notes have whole chapters completed, while other parts were nothing more than a part of a conversation or a quick summary of a scene which he has to flesh out.
313 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 9:12:49pm |
re: #305 Cato the Elder
I have to wonder, cynical bastard that I am, whether George Martin inserted the “R.R.” like John Kerry did the “F.” so he could be a little more JFKish.
The thing I admire about Tolkien is that he did the whole backstory first, including fully-fleshed out languages and scripts, with no idea it would ever be published. Then he wrote “The Hobbit” for his children. Then he set about LotR, also with little hope that it was publishable. The children’s book was a hit, and the rest is history.
To my knowledge there are masses of notebooks that have still not seen the light of day.
His son Christopher is very much in the business of publishing them and reconstructing them. There are something like 12 volumes already out in print.
I agree that Tolkien was a genius in what he did, and I adore him. What makes his work unique is exactly what you described - legendary back story, culture and languages built first, plot and characters later. And it shows, both in the good way and the bad way. Let’s face it Tolkien really can not write dialog.
Martin started his books thinking he would base a fantasy world around the Wars of the Roses. It is pretty transparent. Somewhere about the 30th page and ever after though, his characters become so alive and his world so hintingly epic that the writing almost got away from him. You feel as if he is channeling people and writing a history at the same time.
314 | Nimed Sun, May 2, 2010 9:15:11pm |
re: #308 Floral Giraffe
Well, I am most definitely NOT in my teens, and I am looking forward to some new, recommended Sci-Fi. So there!
lol. Well, you’re probably a little old for the Dragonlance novels. But you really can’t go wrong with ASAIF. Be warned, though: Martin is pretty merciless with his characters. I don’t think I would enjoy re-reading some of the chapters in the series.
315 | Cato the Elder Sun, May 2, 2010 9:15:47pm |
re: #313 LudwigVanQuixote
His son Christopher is very much in the business of publishing them and reconstructing them. There are something like 12 volumes already out in print.
I agree that Tolkien was a genius in what he did, and I adore him. What makes his work unique is exactly what you described - legendary back story, culture and languages built first, plot and characters later. And it shows, both in the good way and the bad way. Let’s face it Tolkien really can not write dialog.
Martin started his books thinking he would base a fantasy world around the Wars of the Roses. It is pretty transparent. Somewhere about the 30th page and ever after though, his characters become so alive and his world so hintingly epic that the writing almost got away from him. You feel as if he is channeling people and writing a history at the same time.
Well, enough people I respect have now written so glowingly about his work that it’s now on the list.
Groan.
Don’t ask me how long the list is.
316 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 9:17:01pm |
re: #312 Kragar (proud to be kafir)
Not bad. I met him at a booksigning when his first WOT book. Nice guy. His Mistborn trilogy was pretty good. Jordan’s wife decided he was the only person capable of finishing the series, and he has full access all of Jordan’s materials and team. He said some portions of Jordan’s notes have whole chapters completed, while other parts were nothing more than a part of a conversation or a quick summary of a scene which he has to flesh out.
The cover for his “Way of Kings” is enough to make me want to buy it. This is friggin’ beautiful.
317 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 9:20:09pm |
re: #315 Cato the Elder
Well, enough people I respect have now written so glowingly about his work that it’s now on the list.
Groan.
Don’t ask me how long the list is.
Anyone who has a taste for fantasy from a grown up perspective with an understanding of history and politics will adore Ice and Fire.
IMHO they are to the fantasy genre what things like Dark Knight returns and Sandman and Watchmen were to comics. But honestly, Sandman and all that are for college kids. Ice and Fire is for adults.
318 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 9:21:18pm |
re: #314 Nimed
lol. Well, you’re probably a little old for the Dragonlance novels. But you really can’t go wrong with ASAIF. Be warned, though: Martin is pretty merciless with his characters. I don’t think I would enjoy re-reading some of the chapters in the series.
There was one point in the third book where I threw the book across the room and swore. I honestly did this. NO SPOILERS but all you have read it, know the part.
319 | Cato the Elder Sun, May 2, 2010 9:29:18pm |
re: #317 LudwigVanQuixote
Anyone who has a taste for fantasy from a grown up perspective with an understanding of history and politics will adore Ice and Fire.
IMHO they are to the fantasy genre what things like Dark Knight returns and Sandman and Watchmen were to comics. But honestly, Sandman and all that are for college kids. Ice and Fire is for adults.
I see the first two volumes are available on Kindle for $6.39. A total of 864 “pages”. Ouch! I just had them send me the “free sample” - still one of the nicest features about the Kindle system. Hope it’s more than just the table of contents and the first three pages, like some publishers diddle you with.
My dad has been on my case for years to read the “Darkman” series by Stephen King (originally published under a pseudonym, for some reason). I’d like to oblige him while he’s still here to know about it.
Then there are all the things in my various wishlists, which no one ever gives me, so their only point is to remind me what I want to read.
And my Netflix Instant queue is up over forty movies at this point.
I really need to give up ALL my bad habits and get back to the gym if I’m going to have a hope of doing a tenth of what I still want to do, just in the reading/viewing departments, before I croak.
320 | Nimed Sun, May 2, 2010 9:29:58pm |
re: #318 LudwigVanQuixote
There was one point in the third book where I threw the book across the room and swore. I honestly did this. NO SPOILERS but all you have read it, know the part.
321 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 9:31:56pm |
re: #318 LudwigVanQuixote
There was one point in the third book where I threw the book across the room and swore. I honestly did this. NO SPOILERS but all you have read it, know the part.
That scene you’re talking struck me comatose.
322 | Jadespring Sun, May 2, 2010 9:33:56pm |
re: #321 JasonA
That scene you’re talking struck me comatose.
Okay. Now I’m definitely going to check the books out. You folks have convinced me.
I have one question though. Is it likely to make me cry?
323 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 9:35:42pm |
re: #322 Jadespring
Okay. Now I’m definitely going to check the books out. You folks have convinced me.
I have one question though. Is it likely to make me cry?
It’s quite possible. Hard to tell you without spoiling it, though. As has been said before, Martin is without mercy. You’ll get to know a character very well. And the they’ll be gone…
324 | William Barnett-Lewis Sun, May 2, 2010 9:36:33pm |
I’ve always loved Tolkien and never felt much excitement for Martin though I should give it another try.
But the best fantasy ever written remains Zelazny’s “Lord of Light” - the first page reads like this…
“His followers called him Mahasamatman and said he was a god. He preferred to drop the Maha- and the -atman, however, and called himself Sam. He never claimed to be a god, but then he never claimed not to be a god. Circumstances being what they were, neither admission could be of any benefit. Silence, though, could.
Therefore there was a mystery about him.
It was in the season of the rains…”
William
325 | Cato the Elder Sun, May 2, 2010 9:36:58pm |
re: #320 Nimed
Good God. That’s a family tree for just one house in SoIaF?
I may have to reconsider. Looks harder than the periodic table of elements.
And then those summaries.
In LotR there are maybe a dozen major characters to keep track of, with their entourages. Not even Tolkien makes you read family trees until you get to the Appendices…
326 | Kragar Sun, May 2, 2010 9:37:30pm |
I’m debating on whether I can get back into Feist
327 | Jadespring Sun, May 2, 2010 9:37:57pm |
re: #323 JasonA
It’s quite possible. Hard to tell you without spoiling it, though. As has been said before, Martin is without mercy. You’ll get to know a character very well. And the they’ll be gone…
Then I will likely cry. That’s alright though any book that can make me cry is a good book.
328 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 9:40:04pm |
re: #325 Cato the Elder
Good God. That’s a family tree for just one house in SoIaF?
I may have to reconsider. Looks harder than the periodic table of elements.
And then those summaries.
In LotR there are maybe a dozen major characters to keep track of, with their entourages. Not even Tolkien makes you read family trees until you get to the Appendices…
It wouldn’t be as popular as it is if it was that complicated. That’s stuff you probably shouldn’t be reading, anyway.
329 | Nimed Sun, May 2, 2010 9:40:19pm |
re: #322 Jadespring
Okay. Now I’m definitely going to check the books out. You folks have convinced me.
I have one question though. Is it likely to make me cry?
From Publisher’s Weekly:
No one is given an unrealistic string of luck, however, so misfortune, injury, and death (and even false death) can befall any character, major or minor, no matter how attached the reader has become. Martin has described his penchant for killing off important characters as being necessary for the story’s depth: “…when my characters are in danger, I want you to be afraid to turn the page, (so) you need to show right from the beginning that you’re playing for keeps.”
330 | SanFranciscoZionist Sun, May 2, 2010 9:41:42pm |
re: #218 tradewind
Fox has an incredible lock on prime time… the other three don’t come close.
NBC has cancelled more excellent shows than any of the other networks, IMO. I’m still missing Charlie Crews from Life.
Me too. “The car is only an object. I am not attached to this car.”
331 | Nimed Sun, May 2, 2010 9:43:03pm |
re: #325 Cato the Elder
Good God. That’s a family tree for just one house in SoIaF?
I may have to reconsider. Looks harder than the periodic table of elements.
And then those summaries.
In LotR there are maybe a dozen major characters to keep track of, with their entourages. Not even Tolkien makes you read family trees until you get to the Appendices…
Don’t be discouraged. As a very minor spoiler, you should know that the Frey House as an unusually high amount of members.
332 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 9:44:07pm |
re: #329 Nimed
From Publisher’s Weekly:
I want you to be afraid to turn the page, (so) you need to show right from the beginning that you’re playing for keeps.”
From the beginning, a couple of chapters into the beginning, several spots in the middle…
I’m kind of kidding, but there are only a handful of characters I’d consider “safe,” and even then I might end up dead wrong…
333 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 9:45:16pm |
re: #330 SanFranciscoZionist
Me too. “The car is only an object. I am not attached to this car.”
I think I’ve had a man-crush on Damian Lewis since he played Dick Winters in Band of Brothers.
334 | Nimed Sun, May 2, 2010 9:45:18pm |
re: #331 Nimed
Has an unusually high number of members. Good grief.
335 | Jadespring Sun, May 2, 2010 9:46:35pm |
re: #333 JasonA
I think I’ve had a man-crush on Damian Lewis since he played Dick Winters in Band of Brothers.
I married Dick Winters.
336 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 9:47:06pm |
re: #331 Nimed
Don’t be discouraged. As a very minor spoiler, you should know that the Frey House as an unusually high amount of members.
Most of those are just names that are thrown at you for flavor. It doesn’t detract from the book at all.
337 | Cato the Elder Sun, May 2, 2010 9:48:37pm |
The Zelasny is now also on the Catonian list.
Can’t we get some Palinites or other dimbulbs in here to thin out the number of literary cues I have to take from all you smart people?
338 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 9:48:54pm |
339 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 9:50:28pm |
re: #337 Cato the Elder
The Zelasny is now also on the Catonian list.
Can’t we get some Palinites or other dimbulbs in here to thin out the number of literary cues I have to take from all you smart people?
I bet Palinites would suggest you read Terry Goodkind.
340 | Jadespring Sun, May 2, 2010 9:52:26pm |
re: #338 JasonA
Er, for real?
Well when I met my hubby he totally reminded me of the character and still does. I bug him about it all the time. Hey hon, you’re on HBO again or hey hun I’m going to watch your show now.
341 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 9:52:28pm |
re: #337 Cato the Elder
The Zelasny is now also on the Catonian list.
Can’t we get some Palinites or other dimbulbs in here to thin out the number of literary cues I have to take from all you smart people?
Zelazny went to Hopkins!
342 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 9:52:58pm |
re: #339 JasonA
I bet Palinites would suggest you read Terry Goodkind.
A sample of his mindset, which is evident in his books:
Weymouth, MA: In your opinion who is the most must-read, cutting edge writer publishing today?Terry Goodkind: Ayn Rand.
343 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 9:53:47pm |
re: #340 Jadespring
Well when I met my hubby he totally reminded me of the character and still does. I bug him about it all the time. Hey hon, you’re on HBO again or hey hun I’m going to watch your show now.
Haven’t met many women who could enjoy BoB. You sound cool :)
344 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 9:54:32pm |
re: #339 JasonA
I bet Palinites would suggest you read Terry Goodkind.
Goodkind is like S&M fantasy for dummies.
I can imagine Palin as one of those leather torture chics.
You are my slave you betcha…
345 | Jadespring Sun, May 2, 2010 9:55:32pm |
re: #343 JasonA
Haven’t met many women who could enjoy BoB. You sound cool :)
I’ve seen it all the way through a few times. :) They just ran through it again before the Pacific. I have them all DVR’d now.
346 | Cato the Elder Sun, May 2, 2010 9:55:48pm |
re: #342 JasonA
‘Nuff sed.
I wouldn’t read Ayn Rand, much less someone who takes her as a model, unless I were in solitary confinement and the warden took away my Albanian Bible and left me “The Fountainhead” in its place.
Hint: I don’t even begin to read Albanian, but I would teach it to myself from the Bible before I’d voluntarily read Rand.
347 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 9:55:51pm |
349 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 9:57:17pm |
re: #341 LudwigVanQuixote
Zelazny went to Hopkins!
At the Hopkins Science Fiction Association we had massive nerd cred because some members who showed up were actual princes of Amber - as in the folks that Zelazny based the characters off of.
350 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 9:58:04pm |
re: #344 LudwigVanQuixote
Goodkind is like S&M fantasy for dummies.
I can imagine Palin as one of those leather torture chics.
You are my slave you betcha…
I… I kinda enjoyed those chapters, but damn did that go on for a long time. I realized I was reading a masterpiece when the heroine, who has mind-control power to explain it in a nutshell, made a man eat his own… stuff. Yeah, the man was a child molester and murderer (and in a way over-the-top sort of way) but that was the final straw that led me to label it as so-good-it’s-bad.
351 | Jadespring Sun, May 2, 2010 9:59:07pm |
re: #346 Cato the Elder
I downloaded Atlas Shrugged. I think I made to about page seven before I hit the delete button.
352 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 9:59:44pm |
re: #345 Jadespring
I’ve seen it all the way through a few times. :) They just ran through it again before the Pacific. I have them all DVR’d now.
You know, I stopped watching The Pacific last week. I couldn’t get that into it.
353 | ClaudeMonet Sun, May 2, 2010 10:01:06pm |
re: #50 jamesfirecat
How can they even be already arguing over the price when we haven’t finished cleaning up the damn spill yet?
The same way that so many ambulance chaser-type lawyers file suits before any facts about a disaster are known.
354 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 10:02:11pm |
re: #344 LudwigVanQuixote
Goodkind is like S&M fantasy for dummies.
I can imagine Palin as one of those leather torture chics.
You are my slave you betcha…
I see Palin as more of a Confessor. Michelle Malkin gets the Mord-Sith red leathers.
355 | Jadespring Sun, May 2, 2010 10:02:16pm |
re: #352 JasonA
You know, I stopped watching The Pacific last week. I couldn’t get that into it.
I’m still watching it. It’s good and the production values are great, though not as good a BoB though. It just doesn’t have the same cohesiveness. I think it loses a lot in comparison to BoB.
356 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 10:03:18pm |
re: #350 JasonA
I… I kinda enjoyed those chapters, but damn did that go on for a long time. I realized I was reading a masterpiece when the heroine, who has mind-control power to explain it in a nutshell, made a man eat his own… stuff. Yeah, the man was a child molester and murderer (and in a way over-the-top sort of way) but that was the final straw that led me to label it as so-good-it’s-bad.
Goodkind managed to make it to the 100 page rule for his first book. If I do not quit within the first 100 pages I will finish it.
However, it really sucked. I have not looked into the others in the series.
As to GOOD fantasy, two stand alones that I can not recommend highly enough are:
Fairytale by Raymond E. Feist (and his Magician series is my third fav fantasy series)
And Ysabel by Guy Gabriel Kay.
357 | iceweasel Sun, May 2, 2010 10:03:25pm |
re: #344 LudwigVanQuixote
Goodkind is like S&M fantasy for dummies.
I can imagine Palin as one of those leather torture chics.
You are my slave you betcha…
I suspect more than a few Palin fans imagine her the same way, sort of.
Starbursts, you betcha!
358 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 10:04:08pm |
re: #355 Jadespring
I’m still watching it. It’s good and the production values are great, though not as good a BoB though. It just doesn’t have the same cohesiveness. I think it loses a lot in comparison to BoB.
That’s the rub. It uses it’s relationship to BoB to promote itself, but then fails to meet that, admittedly high, standard. I don’t feel like I’ve gotten to know anyone outside of the three main characters. I can name Leckie, Basilone, and Sledge, but that’s it. BoB had a whole company and you got to know a lot of them and care about them.
359 | Jadespring Sun, May 2, 2010 10:05:02pm |
re: #356 LudwigVanQuixote
And Ysabel by Guy Gabriel Kay.
Great. I have that on my nightstand upstairs. I bought it from a garage sale for a buck but didn’t know that much about it.
360 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 10:05:15pm |
re: #354 JasonA
I see Palin as more of a Confessor. Michelle Malkin gets the Mord-Sith red leathers.
Yeah but Malkin would get too into it. It ceases to be funny then (unless she were doing CBT on Rush, while Beck was the gimp). Palin as a leather Domme though - now that is comedy gold.
361 | Nimed Sun, May 2, 2010 10:05:42pm |
re: #357 iceweasel
I suspect more than a few Palin fans imagine her the same way, sort of.
Starbursts, you betcha!
Oh, Lowry. Only you could lend such poetry to wanking.
362 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 10:06:51pm |
re: #359 Jadespring
Great. I have that on my nightstand upstairs. I bought it from a garage sale for a buck but didn’t know that much about it.
It is very entertaining and well researched if a little campy at times.
I put it in the category of the very best of caramel coated gourmet popcorn reading.
363 | Jadespring Sun, May 2, 2010 10:07:42pm |
re: #358 JasonA
That’s the rub. It uses it’s relationship to BoB to promote itself, but then fails to meet that, admittedly high, standard. I don’t feel like I’ve gotten to know anyone outside of the three main characters. I can name Leckie, Basilone, and Sledge, but that’s it. BoB had a whole company and you got to know a lot of them and care about them.
Yeah I think that’s where it falls down. Since those three characters aren’t even together then it goes all over the place. In BoB when even a minor character died or was hurt I really felt it. With the Pacific it’s sorta, “oh that’s sad, what was that guys name again?”
364 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 10:08:00pm |
re: #356 LudwigVanQuixote
I’m currently reading The Black Company. Stephen Erikson describes it “like reading Vietnam War fiction on peyote.” I see where he’s coming from.
I also finished The Name of the Wind a few weeks ago. Not as stellar as a lot of fantasy reviewers would have you believe, but his prose is fantastic. I’d call it a solid debut.
365 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 10:08:51pm |
re: #364 JasonA
I’m currently reading The Black Company. Stephen Erikson describes it “like reading Vietnam War fiction on peyote.” I see where he’s coming from.
I also finished The Name of the Wind a few weeks ago. Not as stellar as a lot of fantasy reviewers would have you believe, but his prose is fantastic. I’d call it a solid debut.
I was rather pleased with Acacia as a debut.
366 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 10:09:12pm |
re: #360 LudwigVanQuixote
Yeah but Malkin would get too into it. It ceases to be funny then (unless she were doing CBT on Rush, while Beck was the gimp). Palin as a leather Domme though - now that is comedy gold.
Dude! I have to sleep soon. Why do you have to go and put that into my head?!?
:P
367 | Jadespring Sun, May 2, 2010 10:09:44pm |
re: #362 LudwigVanQuixote
It is very entertaining and well researched if a little campy at times.
I put it in the category of the very best of caramel coated gourmet popcorn reading.
Sounds perfect for some escapist reading.
368 | Jadespring Sun, May 2, 2010 10:11:09pm |
And on that note I’m going to head off and read a few pages before I fall asleep.
Night all.
369 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 10:11:22pm |
re: #367 Jadespring
Sounds perfect for some escapist reading.
It is. I don’t think it will fail to please.
370 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 10:11:39pm |
re: #366 JasonA
Dude! I have to sleep soon. Why do you have to go and put that into my head?!?
:P
Because I am feeling evil tonight…
371 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 10:12:49pm |
re: #356 LudwigVanQuixote
Goodkind managed to make it to the 100 page rule for his first book. If I do not quit within the first 100 pages I will finish it.
Isn’t that speech about fire in the first 100 pages? I remember thnking about the issues that would arise from a medieval society banning fire and realized then that this book would be… special.
372 | Dark_Falcon Sun, May 2, 2010 10:16:13pm |
re: #354 JasonA
I see Palin as more of a Confessor. Michelle Malkin gets the Mord-Sith red leathers.
Good call. Palin doesn’t have the mental focus to be a Sith. To use even the Dark Side of the Force requires a good bit of practice and training. Mrs. ‘You Betcha’ is too much a twit for that.
373 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 10:16:53pm |
re: #371 JasonA
Isn’t that speech about fire in the first 100 pages? I remember thnking about the issues that would arise from a medieval society banning fire and realized then that this book would be… special.
I don’t remember. I don’t spend over long remembering that book. That is rather saying something, because good books I remember very clearly.
374 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 10:17:43pm |
re: #372 Dark_Falcon
Good call. Palin doesn’t have the mental focus to be a Sith. To use even the Dark Side of the Force requires a good bit of practice and training. Mrs. ‘You Betcha’ is too much a twit for that.
Different Sith there buddy.
No Star Wars at all involved.
375 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 10:18:19pm |
re: #373 LudwigVanQuixote
I don’t remember. I don’t spend over long remembering that book. That is rather saying something, because good books I remember very clearly.
I envy you. I tend to remember the bad ones more.
376 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 10:18:47pm |
re: #372 Dark_Falcon
Good call. Palin doesn’t have the mental focus to be a Sith. To use even the Dark Side of the Force requires a good bit of practice and training. Mrs. ‘You Betcha’ is too much a twit for that.
Don’t cross the geeks!
377 | ClaudeMonet Sun, May 2, 2010 10:19:00pm |
re: #180 JasonA
“I aimed at the public’s heart, and by accident I hit it in the stomach.”
-Upton Sinclair
Amen to that. His goal was to promote the Socialist Party; instead he was a prime (but not sole) mover in the creation of the FDA.
When The Jungle was on our required reading list in 10th grade Advanced English, some of the young ladies couldn’t finish the book, claiming the descriptions were “too gross”. They changed their tune when the teacher (female) told them they had two choices—read it or fail. Imagine trying that on students today.
378 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 10:19:15pm |
re: #375 JasonA
I envy you. I tend to remember the bad ones more.
Bad habit there… Don’t waste precious brain space, unless it was sooo terrible that it became good again in a Toxic Avenger kind of way.
379 | Dark_Falcon Sun, May 2, 2010 10:19:26pm |
re: #374 LudwigVanQuixote
Different Sith there buddy.
No Star Wars at all involved.
Oops. What kind of Sith, then?
380 | Kragar Sun, May 2, 2010 10:20:02pm |
re: #372 Dark_Falcon
Good call. Palin doesn’t have the mental focus to be a Sith. To use even the Dark Side of the Force requires a good bit of practice and training. Mrs. ‘You Betcha’ is too much a twit for that.
Palin has rogue psyker all over her.
381 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 10:20:42pm |
re: #379 Dark_Falcon
Oops. What kind of Sith, then?
In a series of fantasy books by Terry Goodkind there is an order of dominatrix warrior/assassins with magical powers called the Mord Sith. It is as stupid as it sounds.
382 | Kragar Sun, May 2, 2010 10:21:13pm |
383 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 10:21:46pm |
re: #379 Dark_Falcon
Oops. What kind of Sith, then?
Women in sexy red leather with electric dildos who torture men. That’s it in a nutshell.
384 | Nimed Sun, May 2, 2010 10:21:57pm |
re: #381 LudwigVanQuixote
In a series of fantasy books by Terry Goodkind there is an order of dominatrix warrior/assassins with magical powers called the Mord Sith. It is as stupid as it sounds.
Sounds a bit like the Bene Gesserit.
385 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 10:22:53pm |
re: #384 Nimed
Sounds a bit like the Bene Gesserit.
Bah! I will brook no Herbert/Goodkind comparisons!
386 | Dark_Falcon Sun, May 2, 2010 10:22:59pm |
re: #383 JasonA
Women in sexy red leather with electric dildos who torture men. That’s it in a nutshell.
Yikes.
387 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 10:23:40pm |
re: #384 Nimed
Sounds a bit like the Bene Gesserit.
Except that the Bene Gesserit are many orders of magnitude more interesting, mysterious and multifaceted - oh and none of the magical leather canes that make people whimper.
388 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 10:23:57pm |
389 | Kragar Sun, May 2, 2010 10:24:45pm |
re: #388 JasonA
I’m really not kidding about the dildos.
Ug, the TV show they made off the story is just bad beyond words.
390 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 10:24:48pm |
re: #384 Nimed
Sounds a bit like the Bene Gesserit.
And BTW that is real heresy! I waggle my gom jabbar at you!
391 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 10:25:11pm |
re: #389 Kragar (proud to be kafir)
Hm?
392 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 10:26:41pm |
re: #388 JasonA
I’m really not kidding about the dildos.
So again, you see why Palin doing that would be comedy gold?
393 | Kragar Sun, May 2, 2010 10:26:56pm |
re: #387 LudwigVanQuixote
Except that the Bene Gesserit are many orders of magnitude more interesting, mysterious and multifaceted - oh and none of the magical leather canes that make people whimper.
One Ordo Hereticus Inquistor and his retinue could eat the Bene Gesserit for lunch.
394 | Nimed Sun, May 2, 2010 10:27:31pm |
re: #387 LudwigVanQuixote
Except that the Bene Gesserit are many orders of magnitude more interesting, mysterious and multifaceted - oh and none of the magical leather canes that make people whimper.
Boy, Douglas Adams would really make something out of that.
I was originally going to say they sound like the Honored Matres, but I smugly presumed few people read that far into the Dune novels.
395 | Cato the Elder Sun, May 2, 2010 10:27:41pm |
re: #377 ClaudeMonet
Amen to that. His goal was to promote the Socialist Party; instead he was a prime (but not sole) mover in the creation of the FDA.
When The Jungle was on our required reading list in 10th grade Advanced English, some of the young ladies couldn’t finish the book, claiming the descriptions were “too gross”. They changed their tune when the teacher (female) told them they had two choices—read it or fail. Imagine trying that on students today.
There’s a lot of challenging things I’d like to try on students today (as long as we’re talking college, that is), but forcing them to read anything sounds like a lost cause from the git-go.
396 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 10:28:15pm |
re: #326 Kragar (proud to be kafir)
I’m debating on whether I can get back into Feist
I’m right with you. After Rift War ended, it just seemed too contrived for me.
397 | Kragar Sun, May 2, 2010 10:28:32pm |
re: #391 JasonA
Hm?
The sword of truth TV show. Complete drivel that made at best a pitiful effort to keep any of the source material.
398 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 10:28:55pm |
re: #393 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
One Ordo Hereticus Inquistor and his retinue could eat the Bene Gesserit for lunch.
Is that a Warhammer reference?
399 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 10:29:39pm |
re: #395 Cato the Elder
There’s a lot of challenging things I’d like to try on students today (as long as we’re talking college, that is), but forcing them to read anything sounds like a lost cause from the git-go.
Nah it is easier than you think if you actually ride herd on them and embarrass the ones who didn’t read.
400 | Kragar Sun, May 2, 2010 10:29:43pm |
401 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 10:31:06pm |
re: #394 Nimed
Boy, Douglas Adams would really make something out of that.
I was originally going to say they sound like the Honored Matres, but I smugly presumed few people read that far into the Dune novels.
Lol, I think you would be very surprised at how many Dune fans there are here.
We once had a discussion about the appendix in Dune where the Saudukar were originally supposed to be an analogue for Israel, but how Herbert dropped that idea.
402 | Cato the Elder Sun, May 2, 2010 10:31:10pm |
re: #381 LudwigVanQuixote
In a series of fantasy books by Terry Goodkind there is an order of dominatrix warrior/assassins with magical powers called the Mord Sith. It is as stupid as it sounds.
And in this picture the young woman looks rather dim as well. Maybe Palin could qualify after all.
403 | Nimed Sun, May 2, 2010 10:31:11pm |
re: #390 LudwigVanQuixote
And BTW that is real heresy! I waggle my gom jabbar at you!
I spoke out of ignorance. I never read Goodkind, mainly because every other review seems to compare his books to Rand.
404 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 10:31:13pm |
re: #397 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
The sword of truth TV show. Complete drivel that made at best a pitiful effort to keep any of the source material.
It was a Sam Raimi show that lacked any of his usual humor. Ah well. Has anyone watched Spartacus? That’s a show that was a pure guilty pleasure for me up until episode 6. Then it becomes a genuinely good show, in my humble opinion.
406 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 10:31:42pm |
re: #400 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Guilty as charged.
You are from a different (but still respected) nerd tribe than me.
407 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 10:31:58pm |
re: #402 Cato the Elder
And in this picture the young woman looks rather dim as well. Maybe Palin could qualify after all.
No hotlinking for you!
408 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 10:32:14pm |
re: #403 Nimed
I spoke out of ignorance. I never read Goodkind, mainly because every other review seems to compare his books to Rand.
Actually Rand writes much better prose.
409 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 10:32:39pm |
re: #408 LudwigVanQuixote
Actually Rand writes much better prose.
A backhanded compliment if ever there was one.
410 | Kragar Sun, May 2, 2010 10:33:14pm |
re: #406 LudwigVanQuixote
You are from a different (but still respected) nerd tribe than me.
Ave Geekdom
411 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 10:33:16pm |
re: #406 LudwigVanQuixote
You are from a different (but still respected) nerd tribe than
meI.
FTFY.
412 | Dancing along the light of day Sun, May 2, 2010 10:33:21pm |
re: #402 Cato the Elder
And in this picture the young woman looks rather dim as well. Maybe Palin could qualify after all.
Bad linky, not allowed.
413 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 10:34:12pm |
414 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 10:34:48pm |
415 | Kragar Sun, May 2, 2010 10:35:14pm |
And for background info,
Although primarily concerned with monitoring the Ecclesiarchy, the Ordo Hereticus has expanded its jurisdiction to encompass the other internal threats to the Imperium: witches, mutants, heretics, traitors and other deviants among mankind. Hereticus Inquisitors are the most feared members of the Inquisition, as their focus is on Mankind itself. The arrival of an Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor on a world is met with fear and awe, as no one but the Inquisitor himself knows where his attentions will fall.1
The members of the Ordo Hereticus monitor the Wars of Faith inspired by the Ecclesiarchy, to ensure they remain within the objectives assigned by the Ecclesiarch. They ensure that the teachings preached by priests of the Imperial Cult remain true to the spirit of the Emperor’s will. They regulate the wealth and territory claimed by members of the Ecclesiarchy, to prevent higher members of the institution from gaining more power than is appropriate.
The Ordo Hereticus is also called upon to monitor other Imperial organisations for internal threats, including the Adeptus Arbites, the Space Marines, and even the Inquisition itself. Only the Emperor is beyond their jurisdiction1.
416 | Cato the Elder Sun, May 2, 2010 10:36:23pm |
re: #387 LudwigVanQuixote
Except that the Bene Gesserit are many orders of magnitude more interesting, mysterious and multifaceted - oh and none of the magical leather canes that make people whimper.
And bene gesserit actually means something in Latin, whereas Mord-Sith seems to be a composite of the German word for “murder” and a class of people cribbed from Star Wars.
417 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 10:37:18pm |
re: #415 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I once worked in a store that hosted 40K tourneys. The amount of effort some people put into their boards was admirable. Sometimes kids would start to get into the game and play the older guys, who I could swear just made up some rules on the fly. Looked fun, though.
418 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 10:37:51pm |
re: #416 Cato the Elder
And bene gesserit actually means something in Latin, whereas Mord-Sith seems to be a composite of the German word for “murder” and a class of people cribbed from Star Wars.
So what does Gesserit mean then?
419 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 10:39:16pm |
re: #418 LudwigVanQuixote
Courtesy of wiki:
Origin of the name
In Dreamer of Dune, Brian Herbert’s 2003 biography of his father, the younger Herbert speculates that the name “Gesserit” is supposed to suggest to the reader the word “Jesuit” and thus evoke undertones of a religious order. Like the Jesuits, the Bene Gesserit have been accused of using casuistry to obtain justifications for the unjustifiable. In his own book about Frank Herbert, William F. Touponce notes “Herbert’s early education at the hands of Jesuits” and writes that “Bene Gesserit means ‘that it may be borne or accomplished well,’ and is derived from the hortative subjunctive of the Latin verb gero, meaning ‘to bear or carry away’ in its root sense, but also ‘to conduct oneself in society.’[8]
In fact this above analysis is incorrect, as gesserit is in the active voice (“he does…”), not the passive (“it was done…”)[9], and may be taken either as a third person singular future perfect indicative active (in which case it would be “he/she shall have carried on [some activity] well,” or a third person singular perfect subjunctive active[9], which could not be a hortatory subjunctive (which must be in the first person) or a jussive subjunctive [10] but must be taken as either an optative or deliberative subjunctive (and hence must mean “he/she may have carried on [some activity] well,” or “he should have carried on [some activity] well”)[10].
It may be noted that the legal Latin phrase quamdiu se bene gesserit, taken as a third person future perfect indicative active, means “as long as he/she shall have conducted himself/herself well,”[11] meaning in that context that a judge (or an officer) cannot be removed from his office as long as he performs correctly his duty.
420 | Kragar Sun, May 2, 2010 10:39:36pm |
re: #417 JasonA
I once worked in a store that hosted 40K tourneys. The amount of effort some people put into their boards was admirable. Sometimes kids would start to get into the game and play the older guys, who I could swear just made up some rules on the fly. Looked fun, though.
Research every codex to know what your enemy can pull and when he tries to get one over on you.
421 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 10:40:38pm |
re: #416 Cato the Elder
And bene gesserit actually means something in Latin, whereas Mord-Sith seems to be a composite of the German word for “murder” and a class of people cribbed from Star Wars.
I ask because I see Bene and think b’nai which means sons of ass opposed to the Latin which would give good.
I always thought that gesserit was like Jesuit.
422 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 10:41:19pm |
re: #420 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I never really played, myself. Always seemed like a big monetary investment. And I don’t think anyone had just one army.
423 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 10:41:20pm |
re: #419 JasonA
Courtesy of wiki:
Origin of the name
In Dreamer of Dune, Brian Herbert’s 2003 biography of his father, the younger Herbert speculates that the name “Gesserit” is supposed to suggest to the reader the word “Jesuit” and thus evoke undertones of a religious order. Like the Jesuits, the Bene Gesserit have been accused of using casuistry to obtain justifications for the unjustifiable. In his own book about Frank Herbert, William F. Touponce notes “Herbert’s early education at the hands of Jesuits” and writes that “Bene Gesserit means ‘that it may be borne or accomplished well,’ and is derived from the hortative subjunctive of the Latin verb gero, meaning ‘to bear or carry away’ in its root sense, but also ‘to conduct oneself in society.’[8]
In fact this above analysis is incorrect, as gesserit is in the active voice (“he does…”), not the passive (“it was done…”)[9], and may be taken either as a third person singular future perfect indicative active (in which case it would be “he/she shall have carried on [some activity] well,” or a third person singular perfect subjunctive active[9], which could not be a hortatory subjunctive (which must be in the first person) or a jussive subjunctive [10] but must be taken as either an optative or deliberative subjunctive (and hence must mean “he/she may have carried on [some activity] well,” or “he should have carried on [some activity] well”)[10].
It may be noted that the legal Latin phrase quamdiu se bene gesserit, taken as a third person future perfect indicative active, means “as long as he/she shall have conducted himself/herself well,”[11] meaning in that context that a judge (or an officer) cannot be removed from his office as long as he performs correctly his duty.
Rock on!
424 | Dark_Falcon Sun, May 2, 2010 10:42:08pm |
re: #393 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
One Ordo Hereticus Inquistor and his retinue could eat the Bene Gesserit for lunch.
That’s more 40K, right?
425 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 10:43:10pm |
OK true nerding out. A friend of mine recently had me look into Enterprise.
I have to confess that for a Star Trek series it was rather good - or at least what I have seen so far is.
426 | Cato the Elder Sun, May 2, 2010 10:43:56pm |
re: #418 LudwigVanQuixote
So what does Gesserit mean then?
The phrase as a whole is the important thing. It means “let it be well done”. “Gesserit”, in case you want to know, is a hortative subjunctive enjoining that something be done; “bene” is an adverb that simply means “well”, as in “nota bene, bene gesserit”.
427 | Kragar Sun, May 2, 2010 10:43:57pm |
re: #422 JasonA
I never really played, myself. Always seemed like a big monetary investment. And I don’t think anyone had just one army.
I’ve only got like 6.
428 | Cato the Elder Sun, May 2, 2010 10:44:34pm |
re: #419 JasonA
I think my explanation is more succinct.
429 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 10:44:35pm |
re: #425 LudwigVanQuixote
OK true nerding out. A friend of mine recently had me look into Enterprise.
I have to confess that for a Star Trek series it was rather good - or at least what I have seen so far is.
I hated all of the time travel with a passion.
With
A
Passion.
Season 4 was damn beautiful though. They knew it was the end of the line and pumped out some worthwhile stuff.
430 | Nimed Sun, May 2, 2010 10:45:14pm |
Ok, so the Sardaukar are Israelis (that’s not too flattering), the Bene Gesserit are Jesuits, the Fremen are obviously Arabic - and their home, Arrakis is invaded, blah, blah, blah.
WTF?
431 | Dancing along the light of day Sun, May 2, 2010 10:45:18pm |
re: #413 LudwigVanQuixote
Anything that starts out with a George Nelson Pretzel Chair, gets my attention!
432 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 10:45:23pm |
re: #428 Cato the Elder
I think my explanation is more succinct.
Yeah, but mine required no thought at all on my part. :P
433 | Cato the Elder Sun, May 2, 2010 10:45:52pm |
re: #421 LudwigVanQuixote
I ask because I see Bene and think b’nai which means sons of ass opposed to the Latin which would give good.
I always thought that gesserit was like Jesuit.
The two words have nothing in common.
434 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 10:46:23pm |
re: #428 Cato the Elder
I think my explanation is more succinct.
Fair enough. I think it seems clear from teh wiki link that Herbert was going for your Latin.
I recognized the bene part as Latin, but I rather liked the Hebrew meaning with the selective breeding aspect of them.
435 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 10:46:57pm |
re: #431 Floral Giraffe
Anything that starts out with a George Nelson Pretzel Chair, gets my attention!
LOL
436 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 10:47:17pm |
re: #434 LudwigVanQuixote
Fair enough. I think it seems clear from teh wiki link that Herbert was going for your Latin.
I recognized the bene part as Latin, but I rather liked the Hebrew meaning with the selective breeding aspect of them.
You know, David Lynch once made a Dune movie.
True story.
…
437 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 10:47:54pm |
re: #430 Nimed
Ok, so the Sardaukar are Israelis (that’s not too flattering), the Bene Gesserit are Jesuits, the Fremen are obviously Arabic - and their home, Arrakis is invaded, blah, blah, blah.
WTF?
Well he dropped the Sardukar Israeli theme.
The idea behind the politics of Dune was always OPEC. The analogies are easy to make.
438 | Kragar Sun, May 2, 2010 10:48:43pm |
re: #436 JasonA
You know, David Lynch once made a Dune movie.
True story.
…
The guy who made Showgirls supposedly adapted Starship Troopers for the big screen as well, or so I’ve heard….
439 | Dark_Falcon Sun, May 2, 2010 10:49:02pm |
re: #417 JasonA
I once worked in a store that hosted 40K tourneys. The amount of effort some people put into their boards was admirable. Sometimes kids would start to get into the game and play the older guys, who I could swear just made up some rules on the fly. Looked fun, though.
There are a fair number of devotees here in Chicagoland, too. There’s even a gaming con called Adepticon mostly devoted to Games Workshop games. Lots of 40K there. I was there to play Classic Battletech this year though. Fun game, though my side lost.
440 | Cato the Elder Sun, May 2, 2010 10:49:28pm |
re: #430 Nimed
Ok, so the Sardaukar are Israelis (that’s not too flattering), the Bene Gesserit are Jesuits, the Fremen are obviously Arabic - and their home, Arrakis is invaded, blah, blah, blah.
WTF?
Yep. There is lots of room for interpreting Dune as essentially Herbert’s Johnny-come-lately T.E.-Lawrencean homage to the wild and free Bedouin and Tuareg, and not a little grounds for thinking he was no friend of Israel.
441 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 10:49:34pm |
re: #438 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
The guy who made Showgirls supposedly adapted Starship Troopers for the big screen as well, or so I’ve heard…
Did Dune have a Nazi Doogie Howser?
No, so stop talking :P
442 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 10:49:39pm |
re: #436 JasonA
You know, David Lynch once made a Dune movie.
True story.
…
I will hunt you down and hurt you now.
BTW, I loved Dune, but the thing I always got bugged about the most was the damn shields blocking fast things and even a fast human strike, (ok) but people using swords. Since when was a successful sword hit slow?
443 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 10:49:59pm |
re: #438 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
The guy who made Showgirls supposedly adapted Starship Troopers for the big screen as well, or so I’ve heard…
YOU TOO WILL SUFFER FOR BRINGING THAT UP!
444 | Kragar Sun, May 2, 2010 10:50:33pm |
re: #441 JasonA
Did Dune have a Nazi Doogie Howser?
No, so stop talking :P
No, but it did have Sting in a winged metal speedo, so HA!
445 | Cato the Elder Sun, May 2, 2010 10:50:42pm |
re: #432 JasonA
Yeah, but mine required no thought at all on my part. :P
I like you better all the time.
That Latin debate is one I’m going to have to send to my real Classics Ph.D. friend for checking.
446 | Dark_Falcon Sun, May 2, 2010 10:50:51pm |
re: #438 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
The guy who made Showgirls supposedly adapted Starship Troopers for the big screen as well, or so I’ve heard…
Did he? I now Paul Verhoven directed the Starship Troopers movie. Joe Esterhas directed Showgirls.
447 | Nimed Sun, May 2, 2010 10:51:02pm |
re: #436 JasonA
You know, David Lynch once made a Dune movie.
True story.
…
And I heard of this guy who has actually sat through it till the end.
448 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 10:51:06pm |
re: #444 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
No, but it did have Sting in a winged metal speedo, so HA!
I… I… okay, you win.
449 | Dancing along the light of day Sun, May 2, 2010 10:52:19pm |
Well, the Nerding has been fun, and I learned a LOT!
Now, I must go listen to my pillow.
Good night, you starship troopers!
450 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 10:52:24pm |
451 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 10:53:05pm |
re: #449 Floral Giraffe
Well, the Nerding has been fun, and I learned a LOT!
Now, I must go listen to my pillow.
Good night, you starship troopers!
Add that one to your list if you haven’t read it yet. It’s one of the greatest Sci Fi books of all time.
452 | Kragar Sun, May 2, 2010 10:53:25pm |
re: #446 Dark_Falcon
Did he? I now Paul Verhoven directed the Starship Troopers movie. Joe Esterhas directed Showgirls.
Esterhas wrote it. Verhoven directed it.
453 | Four More Tears Sun, May 2, 2010 10:54:00pm |
Alright, Lizards, I have to prepare for bed. These preparations will consist of about an hour of gaming followed by a half-hour of reading. What’s important is that I’m off the internets for now.
Peace.
454 | Kragar Sun, May 2, 2010 10:54:05pm |
re: #450 LudwigVanQuixote
Nothing defeats Manos the Hands of Fate.
I am Torgo. I take care of things while the Master is away.
455 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 10:54:21pm |
re: #453 JasonA
Alright, Lizards, I have to prepare for bed. These preparations will consist of about an hour of gaming followed by a half-hour of reading. What’s important is that I’m off the internets for now.
Peace.
Be well. I too am out!
456 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 10:54:43pm |
re: #454 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I am Torgo. I take care of things while the Master is away.
OK now you win!
457 | Dancing along the light of day Sun, May 2, 2010 10:55:04pm |
re: #451 LudwigVanQuixote
Which one? I’ll get it. TIA
458 | Dark_Falcon Sun, May 2, 2010 10:55:44pm |
re: #452 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Esterhas wrote it. Verhoven directed it.
Cool. I had not known that.
459 | Kragar Sun, May 2, 2010 10:55:47pm |
460 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 10:55:57pm |
re: #457 Floral Giraffe
Which one? I’ll get it. TIA
Starship Troopers, though Dune is even better. Both are must reads IMHO.
461 | Cato the Elder Sun, May 2, 2010 10:56:08pm |
I always like the Tuareg as a possible source for Herbert’s Fremen.
Here’s one in his stillsuit. Obviously, from the eyes, you can tell he’s been without his spice quota for quite some time.
463 | Nimed Sun, May 2, 2010 10:56:43pm |
re: #437 LudwigVanQuixote
Well he dropped the Sardukar Israeli theme.
The idea behind the politics of Dune was always OPEC. The analogies are easy to make.
For sure. But, and I’m really just rolling with it, at some point the jihad gets out of control, and Paul has to do you-know-what to put an end to it.
It’s hard to draw a parallel between the Sardaukar and anything, really. Maybe the Hashashins myths? It’s a bit strained.
464 | Nimed Sun, May 2, 2010 10:57:53pm |
re: #461 Cato the Elder
I always like the Tuareg as a possible source for Herbert’s Fremen.
Here’s one in his stillsuit. Obviously, from the eyes, you can tell he’s been without his spice quota for quite some time.
Nice!
465 | Cato the Elder Sun, May 2, 2010 10:57:58pm |
re: #461 Cato the Elder
And here’s one who’s working on his spice intake.
466 | Kragar Sun, May 2, 2010 10:58:38pm |
re: #460 LudwigVanQuixote
Starship Troopers, though Dune is even better. Both are must reads IMHO.
I liked Troopers better. I’ll always remember the part where Rico crashes into the Skinnies bunker and pulls the talking bomb.
“I’m a 15 second bomb! I’m a 14 second bomb!…”
467 | Dancing along the light of day Sun, May 2, 2010 10:59:41pm |
re: #460 LudwigVanQuixote
Starship Troopers, though Dune is even better. Both are must reads IMHO.
OK, I”ll get the Starship one. Did Dune, several times, WONDERFUL series!
468 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 11:15:03pm |
re: #467 Floral Giraffe
OK, I”ll get the Starship one. Did Dune, several times, WONDERFUL series!
Heinlein wrote Starship Troopers to reflect on his time at Annapolis. It is the book of military science fiction. It is much more about the philosophy of a military than anything else.
Heinlein is sort of the Hemingway of science fiction. He is all balls and then some. Either you love the style or you hate it.
469 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, May 2, 2010 11:16:12pm |
re: #466 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I liked Troopers better. I’ll always remember the part where Rico crashes into the Skinnies bunker and pulls the talking bomb.
“I’m a 15 second bomb! I’m a 14 second bomb!…”
They are very very different books. I really can’t compare them.
470 | ClaudeMonet Sun, May 2, 2010 11:59:08pm |
re: #466 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I liked Troopers better. I’ll always remember the part where Rico crashes into the Skinnies bunker and pulls the talking bomb.
“I’m a 15 second bomb! I’m a 14 second bomb!…”
It was a “30-second bomb”, but thank you for the reminder. Great book.
Starship Troopers has some pretty good fight sequences, but it’s more about why and how we fight than the usual slug-it-out, all-testosterone all-the-time space opera. In my high school years, which coincided with the later Vietnam War days, it was an effective counterbalance to the events of the day in its emphasis on group pride and achievement, things that were not in vogue then.
I don’t have the book handy, but the parts with Mr. DuBois were great political philosophy, particularly his response to the girl who says, “My father says that violence never solves anything.”
Darn, now I’m going to have to find and re-read it. The latter is the regrettable part.
471 | Liberal Classic Mon, May 3, 2010 4:57:09am |
I actually liked the Lynch version of Dune. It’s hard to capture all the elements of such a dense story, but I thought the film was a good attempt. It’s not without its flaws, but I still think it compares favorably with the sci-fi channel mini-series that came later.
Don’t know if they’ll ever make a movie out of God Emperor. I’ve always thought GE was more like a Heinlein novel.
472 | Sacred Plants Mon, May 3, 2010 7:09:57am |
re: #86 tradewind
So I know they’re a good energy source, and all that, but looking at those, I’m starting to see Ted Kennedy’s point…
Something there is that does not love a (modern day, designed for a windfarm ) windmill. They do screw up the landscape.
Yes they do, but the installation can easily be undone, unlike trees that have been cut for surface mining, plantations or dams.
Besides that it seems odd that they are sitting there as if for no other purpose than to serve the network, rather than on top of whatever needs the energy of that size of windmill, with the network only being used to cover for unreliabilities.
And this is a daytime photograph, so it is not visible that they might carry visual beacons which cause nighttime irritations on the ground, due to a lack of more intelligent regulation how to pursue the safety requirements of general aviation.