Barton Apologizes for Apologizing to BP for Obama’s ‘Shakedown’

Wingnuts • Views: 2,187

The official word from Texas Republican Joe Barton, ranking member of the House Energy and Commerce Committee:

“I apologize for using the term ‘shakedown’ with regard to yesterday’s actions at the White House in my opening statement this morning, and I retract my apology to BP. As I told my colleagues yesterday and said again this morning, BP should bear the full financial responsibility for the accident on their lease in the Gulf of Mexico. BP should fully compensate those families and businesses that have been hurt by this accident. BP and the federal government need to stop the leak, clean up the damage, and take whatever steps necessary to prevent a similar accident in the future.

“I regret the impact that my statement this morning implied that BP should not pay for the consequences of their decisions and actions in this incident.”

Jump to bottom

221 comments
1 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:16:25pm

Maybe because he got spanked.

House Republican Leaders John Boehner (R-OH), Eric Cantor (R-VA), and Mike Pence (R-IN) issued the following statement:

“The oil spill in the Gulf is this nation’s largest natural disaster and stopping the leak and cleaning up the region is our top priority. Congressman Barton’s statements this morning were wrong. BP itself has acknowledged that responsibility for the economic damages lies with them and has offered an initial pledge of $20 billion dollars for that purpose.

“The families and businesspeople in the Gulf region want leadership, accountability and action from BP and the Administration. It is unacceptable that, 59 days after this crisis began, no solution is forthcoming. Simply put, the American people want all of our resources, time and focus to be directed toward stopping the spill and cleaning up the mess.”

2 S'latch  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:16:42pm

Has Joe Barton has been shaken down?

3 osprey34229  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:18:16pm

That’s the problem the right has no backbone!

4 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:19:58pm

Next up: Barton Apologizes for apologizing for his apology.

5 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:20:12pm

Is this like, the most threads ever in one single day? I seem to remember an explosion of “heads exploding” threads in one day.

6 webevintage  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:21:51pm

hahahahahahaha

This has been an awesome wingnut day…

7 Amory Blaine  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:22:23pm

Joe Barton, flip-flopping extraordinaire does the triple Lindy !!!!

8 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:23:02pm

Will there be an apology for the apology for the apology later when Barton goes back to his rootin-tootin’ big-oil masters?

OH MAN I CAN SEE FOREVER

9 Velvet Elvis  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:23:33pm

Next up: Barton apology apologists.

10 webevintage  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:23:52pm

re: #7 Amory Blaine

Joe Barton, flip-flopping extraordinaire does the triple Lindy !!!

It really was quite impressive in terms of how could he kiss Boehner’s ass while still sounding like he is his own man standing up to the mooslim commie in the White House.

11 Nimed  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:24:37pm

re: #6 webevintage

hahahahahahaha

This has been an awesome wingnut day…

:D
Getting all emotional here:

Youtube Video

*snif*

12 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:24:56pm

Hey, his instincts got the better of him: somebody shouted “Squirrel!” and he ran off, barking. They get that way around huntin’ season…

13 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:25:14pm

re: #6 webevintage

hahahahahahaha

This has been an awesome wingnut day…

Someone needs to just follow Bachmann around with a camera, Man Bites Dog style, covering every single stupid thing she says

14 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:25:22pm

re: #10 webevintage

It really was quite impressive in terms of how could he kiss Boehner’s ass while still sounding like he is his own man standing up to the mooslim commie non-Texan in the White House.

Fixed that with the shorter version for you. ;)

15 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:27:09pm

re: #14 oaktree

Fixed that with the shorter version for you. ;)

Why? The two terms are almost entirely interchangeable


/

16 What, me worry?  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:28:08pm

re: #10 webevintage

It really was quite impressive in terms of how could he kiss Boehner’s ass while still sounding like he is his own man standing up to the mooslim commie in the White House.

Please do not put Kiss, Boehner and Ass right up next to each other like that. You’re freaking me out, man.

17 Interesting Times  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:29:41pm

re: #8 WindUpBird

Will there be an apology for the apology for the apology later when Barton goes back to his rootin-tootin’ big-oil masters?

It’s like face-to-face reflective surfaces as interpreted by M.C. Escher.

18 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:30:06pm

re: #16 marjoriemoon

Please do not put Kiss, Boehner and Ass right up next to each other like that. You’re freaking me out, man.

But Barton just wants to Rock and Roll All Night And Party Every Day

19 okonkolo  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:30:10pm

As TPM pointed out here, the House GOP Republican Study Committee used the “Chicago-style shakedown” language yesterday in a release. This is not Barton wandering off the reservation and shooting from the hip, this is a broad conservative GOP tact and he just got caught on camera first by going to the apology. Shakedown is theme 2, theme 1 is that Obama is exploiting the disaster to push “his liberal agenda,” which is what Palin said yesterday and Bachman & company are saying today. Man, look for some of this stuff to be appearing in commercials come fall.

20 freetoken  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:30:13pm

Who turned on the spigot of right-wing craziness this morning? I just switched on my computer to find that the GOP is in full court press - but their dribbling is coming out of their mouths and they’ve travelled with the ball right off into the stands.

21 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:30:45pm

Well we already knew that if you put GOPasaurs under pressure long enough they turned to oil…

22 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:30:53pm

re: #17 publicityStunted

It’s like face-to-face reflective surfaces as interpreted by M.C. Escher.

ahahahaa yes :D

This non-euclidean mea culpa brought to you by your friends in the oil industry!

23 tradewind  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:31:56pm

re: #19 okonkolo
That’s okay. We’ll be shown counter ads of Obama literally picking Hayward up, turning him upside down, and shaking him until twenty billion falls magically out of his pockets./

24 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:32:01pm

BP chose to engage in risky behavior.

What risky means is that there is a big risk (or chance) that something really bad is going to happen, but also a chance that it won’t, and there will be a payoff.

In this case, the bad stuff happened. Just like they would have taken all the benefit of getting the oil faster and with less overhead, they get to take all the blame, and the liability.

Risky does not mean edgy, or cool, or extreme, it means there is a very real chance that something bad is going to happen because of your behavior, and you’ll have to accept the bad.

Teenagers need to be taught this, and so do corporations.

25 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:32:07pm

re: #20 freetoken

Who turned on the spigot of right-wing craziness this morning? I just switched on my computer to find that the GOP is in full court press - but their dribbling is coming out of their mouths and they’ve travelled with the ball right off into the stands.

Oh MAN I KNOW, I just stumbled from bed to my computer with my coffee and it’s like overturned cop cars and garbage cans are on fire

26 freetoken  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:33:32pm

re: #19 okonkolo

Or as reported by MSNBC:


Texas’ Barton called deal with Obama a ‘shakedown, isn’t alone in GOP

NBC News noted that another member of the GOP leadership, Rep. Tom Price of Georgia, chairman of the Republican Study Committee, a group of conservative House members, used the same language Wednesday in describing the escrow fund.

“BP’s reported willingness to go along with the White House’s new fund suggests that the Obama Administration is hard at work exerting its brand of Chicago-style shakedown politics,” Price said in a statement.

27 HoosierHoops  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:33:55pm

Tiger Tees off in 2 minutes at the US Open

28 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:34:20pm

re: #19 okonkolo

Yeah, the whole Chicago-mob-corruption-Obama meme has been orbiting around the comments here on LGF for a while now, and every single time, some right-winger thinks they’re just so totally original and fresh for bringing it up.

SEE IT’S LIKE CHICAGO AND HES LIKE AL CAPONE GET IT?!?!?!?!?!

29 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:36:29pm

re: #19 okonkolo

As TPM pointed out here, the House GOP Republican Study Committee used the “Chicago-style shakedown” language yesterday in a release. This is not Barton wandering off the reservation and shooting from the hip, this is a broad conservative GOP tact and he just got caught on camera first by going to the apology. Shakedown is theme 2, theme 1 is that Obama is exploiting the disaster to push “his liberal agenda,” which is what Palin said yesterday and Bachman & company are saying today. Man, look for some of this stuff to be appearing in commercials come fall.

Beck and Limbaugh have been using the same language for the past few days too. I think some in the GOP establishment started to see the damage they werre doing to themselves. Idiots.

30 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:36:33pm

Honestly? I’m glad when cameras aren’t around to catch my knee jerk responses. T’was dumb, but, heck… have you MET ME!?!?

31 freetoken  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:37:18pm

re: #29 Killgore Trout

Beck and Limbaugh have been using the same language for the past few days too.

The leading ideologues of the contemporary GOP.

32 webevintage  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:37:23pm

re: #16 marjoriemoon

Please do not put Kiss, Boehner and Ass right up next to each other like that. You’re freaking me out, man.

I’m sorry. Will cute kittehs help?
[Link: icanhascheezburger.com…]

[Link: icanhascheezburger.com…]

33 Batman  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:37:30pm

re: #28 WindUpBird

Yeah, the whole Chicago-mob-corruption-Obama meme has been orbiting around the comments here on LGF for a while now, and every single time, some right-winger thinks they’re just so totally original and fresh for bringing it up.

SEE IT’S LIKE CHICAGO AND HES LIKE AL CAPONE GET IT?!?!?!?!?!

I’ll take Al Capone if he’s on my side.

34 tradewind  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:37:32pm

re: #19 okonkolo
So you don’t think he’s using the disaster to push a legislative agenda?
Because if he did not, a large segment of his base could (correctly, in their view) accuse him of political malpractice.
(n.b. that this is separate and apart from the conspiracy-nut theories of him having anything to do with it, or having wished it upon us, both of which are stupid)

35 What, me worry?  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:37:59pm

re: #30 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Honestly? I’m glad when cameras aren’t around to catch my knee jerk responses. T’was dumb, but, heck… have you MET ME!?!?

I heard your damn sexy.

36 Nimed  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:38:23pm

The story of Barton’s excessive zeal is all too familiar. He forgot he was just one of many BP’s bitches and broke the most important rule in the business —never fall in love.

37 What, me worry?  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:38:24pm

re: #32 webevintage

I’m sorry. Will cute kittehs help?
[Link: icanhascheezburger.com…]

[Link: icanhascheezburger.com…]

Awwww look at the babies!!!

38 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:38:30pm

re: #30 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Honestly? I’m glad when cameras aren’t around to catch my knee jerk responses. T’was dumb, but, heck… have you MET ME!?!?

I’ll start hanging around the bakery counter, looking for guys that look vaguely like Glenn Beck.

39 Kragar  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:38:49pm

If they had wanted Barton to speak, they’d have stuffed a hand up his ass.

40 Lidane  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:39:09pm

I refuse to let Barton and his idiocy bring me down. I just watched Mexico beat France 2-0. It’s the first time they’ve ever beaten France at the World Cup level, and they deserved it.

Awesome game. I can’t wait to see what comes next from this Mexican team. :D

41 reine.de.tout  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:39:12pm

re: #24 EmmmieG

BP chose to engage in risky behavior.

What risky means is that there is a big risk (or chance) that something really bad is going to happen, but also a chance that it won’t, and there will be a payoff.

In this case, the bad stuff happened. Just like they would have taken all the benefit of getting the oil faster and with less overhead, they get to take all the blame, and the liability.

Risky does not mean edgy, or cool, or extreme, it means there is a very real chance that something bad is going to happen because of your behavior, and you’ll have to accept the bad.

Teenagers need to be taught this, and so do corporations.

Yep.
I’m getting frustrated with this hearing.
I posted downstairs a couple of threads, that Hayward keeps talking about the “investigation”.

By now, BP knows exactly what happened and why, and their “investigation” process at this points is simply them trying to write their report in a way that shows them in the best light, and others in the worst possible light.

The answers are there, but this panel isn’t getting to them.

42 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:39:20pm

re: #35 marjoriemoon

I heard your damn sexy.

RIGHT DEAD SEXY I TELLS YA!

43 Kragar  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:39:26pm

re: #4 Fozzie Bear

Next up: Barton Apologizes for apologizing for his apology.

A moose bit my sister once.

44 freetoken  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:40:17pm

When it rains, it pours:

Alabama Republican: Cigarettes A Worse Environmental Disaster Than The Oil Spill

If you thought that Joe Barton and Michelle Bachmann had won today’s prize for dumbest comment by a Congressional Republican, well you haven’t met Congressman Parker Griffith of Alabama:

In his opening statement at today’s BP hearing in the House Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations, Alabama Republican Parker Griffith downplayed the oil spill:

The greatest environmental disaster in America has been cigarettes … If we’re gonna talk about the environment, let’s be sure we don’t leave that out … The environment is an important concept, and we regret the loss of life, but there’s much we can do. We’ll put this in perspective. This is not going to be the worst thing that ever happened to America.

If he would have said “health disaster” he might have had a good point. Alas, crazy language is flowing amok today.

45 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:40:28pm

New DNC video. Ouch.

Youtube Video
46 darthstar  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:40:59pm

re: #2 Lawrence Schmerel

Has Joe Barton has been shaken down?

He’s definitely looking a little shaken. That had to hurt…a lot…to apologize for apologizing, though he didn’t apologize, I notice, for insulting the President AND the United States of America.

47 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:41:00pm

re: #43 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

A moose bit my sister once.

No, really!

48 Kragar  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:41:35pm

re: #42 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

RIGHT DEAD SEXY I TELLS YA!

I’m a sexy boy

Youtube Video
49 celticdragon  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:41:43pm

re: #4 Fozzie Bear

Next up: Barton Apologizes for apologizing for his apology.

My head is starting to hurt.

50 freetoken  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:42:08pm

re: #45 Charles

Hehehehe….

51 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:42:20pm

Oil disaster humor…

BP got the oil leak stopped!!! Yeah they put a wedding ring on it and it quit puttin’ out!!!

52 What, me worry?  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:42:31pm

re: #45 Charles

New DNC video. Ouch.


[Video]

Can I get a WOOT WOOT!!

53 Drogheda  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:42:54pm

re: #49 celticdragon

My head is starting to hurt.

Don’t blame me. I told you to get out. ;P

54 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:43:15pm

re: #45 Charles

:37, the word FUNNNNND

55 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:43:21pm

re: #40 Lidane

I refuse to let Barton and his idiocy bring me down. I just watched Mexico beat France 2-0. It’s the first time they’ve ever beaten France at the World Cup level, and they deserved it.

Awesome game. I can’t wait to see what comes next from this Mexican team. :D

It’s like Cinco de Mayo all over again!!!

56 What, me worry?  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:43:46pm

re: #42 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

RIGHT DEAD SEXY I TELLS YA!

You are, dear, and I don’t even want any money.

57 Nimed  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:43:47pm

re: #45 Charles

New DNC video. Ouch.


[Video]

Ooohh, the piano music is such a nice touch…

58 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:44:13pm

re: #28 WindUpBird

Yeah, the whole Chicago-mob-corruption-Obama meme has been orbiting around the comments here on LGF for a while now, and every single time, some right-winger thinks they’re just so totally original and fresh for bringing it up.

SEE IT’S LIKE CHICAGO AND HES LIKE AL CAPONE GET IT?!?!?!?!?!

Right up there with ‘San Francisco values’. It’s a throwaway line, and no one wants to say outright what they mean by it.

59 okonkolo  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:44:35pm

re: #34 tradewind

It’s a little too complicated for me to want to discuss that point at length in time delay post form [too lazy and I gotta get some work done]. But the agenda he is pushing is the same one he has been pushing since day one except for the part about opening up the coasts to more offshore drilling, which he has walked back for now.

60 Lidane  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:45:04pm

re: #55 ralphieboy

It’s like Cinco de Mayo all over again!!!

Heh. Pretty much. ;)

61 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:45:06pm

re: #33 nonsense

I’ll take Al Capone if he’s on my side.

You know, Elliot Ness was a Chicago man too.

62 celticdragon  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:45:10pm

re: #45 Charles

New DNC video. Ouch.


[Video]

I’m sorry we got our ocean and wildlife and small businesses in the way of your oil, BP. Our bad.

Could we give you some oil soaked pelicans to lubricate your drills?

On the house, of course.

63 celticdragon  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:45:36pm

re: #53 Drogheda

Don’t blame me. I told you to get out. ;P

;)

64 darthstar  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:46:08pm

Funny comment over at the GOS:

Apologizing for the apology? (31+ / 0-)
I’m sorry, but that’s just sorry.
65 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:46:15pm

re: #40 Lidane

I’ve heard of Pele. Anybody else play soccer?
/

66 celticdragon  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:46:31pm

re: #47 Aceofwhat?

No, really!

You have been sacked…

67 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:46:36pm

re: #34 tradewind

So you don’t think he’s using the disaster to push a legislative agenda?
Because if he did not, a large segment of his base could (correctly, in their view) accuse him of political malpractice.
(n.b. that this is separate and apart from the conspiracy-nut theories of him having anything to do with it, or having wished it upon us, both of which are stupid)

There’s a distinction between ‘using a disaster to push an agenda’ and ‘responding to a disaster from the philosophy implied by your overall agenda’.

68 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:47:07pm

re: #45 Charles

New DNC video. Ouch.


[Video]

That’s gonna leave a mark.

69 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:47:47pm

re: #64 darthstar

Funny comment over at the GOS:

what’s the GOS?

70 webevintage  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:48:18pm

re: #45 Charles

New DNC video. Ouch.

I love the “Thank You God I won’t be the top twitter tweet today” look on TH’s face whole Barton is doing his I’m Sorry dance.

71 Nimed  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:48:39pm

re: #58 SanFranciscoZionist

Right up there with ‘San Francisco values’. It’s a throwaway line, and no one wants to say outright what they mean by it.

Seattle values are also taking a hit on account of that story of a cop punching a woman in the face totally “in the line of duty” for jaywalking.

The silver lining is that New York values are looking comparatively good, even in Greater Wingnutia!

72 celticdragon  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:48:41pm

re: #36 Nimed

The story of Barton’s excessive zeal is all too familiar. He forgot he was just one of many BP’s bitches and broke the most important rule in the business —never fall in love.

He thought the money left on the nightstand each week was a dowry payment or something…

73 darthstar  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:48:42pm

re: #69 Aceofwhat?

what’s the GOS?

Great Orange Satan…(dKos)

74 lawhawk  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:49:12pm
Youtube Video
75 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:49:27pm

Let me guess, the Right will refuse to continue support Barton’s apology to BP, ignoring the fact that they’re responsible for one of, if not the , worst environmental disasters in history, and badmouth the “RINOs” in the party for forcing him to apologize for his apology. Some will even go so far as to claim that the White House forced his apology for the apology as further “proof” of the “Chicago-style politics.”

I don’t know whether to laugh or cry.

76 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:50:08pm

re: #73 darthstar

Great Orange Satan…(dKos)

yawn

77 What, me worry?  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:50:12pm

re: #44 freetoken

When it rains, it pours:

Alabama Republican: Cigarettes A Worse Environmental Disaster Than The Oil Spill

If he would have said “health disaster” he might have had a good point. Alas, crazy language is flowing amok today.

Oh look at the shiny red ball I have in my hand! Over here!! See it??

(We Americans are so stupid, we can’t understand Obama’s speech that was made for your average 10th grader so ya gotta figure we’re easily distracted.)

78 celticdragon  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:51:41pm

re: #75 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Let me guess, the Right will refuse to continue support Barton’s apology to BP, ignoring the fact that they’re responsible for one of, if not the , worst environmental disasters in history, and badmouth the “RINOs” in the party for forcing him to apologize for his apology. Some will even go so far as to claim that the White House forced his apology for the apology as further “proof” of the “Chicago-style politics.”

I don’t know whether to laugh or cry.

Exactly. I’m just waiting for the “Chicago gangster politics shutdown of Rep Barton” story to come from Limbaugh and Beck.

Of course, Beck will likely claim that Barton’s family was threatened with internment at a FEMA gulag camp.

79 celticdragon  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:52:33pm

re: #77 marjoriemoon

Oh look at the shiny red ball I have in my hand! Over here!! See it??

(We Americans are so stupid, we can’t understand Obama’s speech that was made for your average 10th grader so ya gotta figure we’re easily distracted.)

I really do believe we get the government we deserve. Feel free to draw your own conclusions.

80 What, me worry?  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:53:22pm

Totally OT, but have you got a look at John Goodman lately? Looking pretty good!!

[Link: marquee.blogs.cnn.com…]

81 webevintage  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:53:58pm

re: #77 marjoriemoon

(We Americans are so stupid, we can’t understand Obama’s speech that was made for your average 10th grader so ya gotta figure we’re easily distracted.)

So in the end this is ALL OBAMBI’S fault because he gave a speech that was too hard to understand and it set off a wingnut/moonbat/pundit critical mass effect.
/

82 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:54:48pm

re: #79 celticdragon

I really do believe we get the government we deserve. Feel free to draw your own conclusions.

Amen. I think they represent us and our values pretty damn well.

83 Nimed  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:55:52pm

re: #72 celticdragon

He thought the money left on the nightstand each week was a dowry payment or something…

Really? I’m feeling a bit sorry for Barton now, but he should’ve known better. I heard he was even letting Tony Hayward kiss him the mouth.

84 celticdragon  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:56:21pm

re: #81 webevintage

So in the end this is ALL OBAMBI’S fault because he gave a speech that was too hard to understand and it set off a wingnut/moonbat/pundit critical mass effect.
/

The increasing denseness of the population has become a self reinforcing closed loop gravity well that nothing can escape from. We are now a singularity of teh stupid.

85 What, me worry?  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:58:03pm

re: #79 celticdragon

I really do believe we get the government we deserve. Feel free to draw your own conclusions.

I don’t at all. We deserve a whole lot better. We work like animals, much more than the Europeans. The fact that our educational system is in the crapper is because of Republicans, not Democrats.

That article really pissed me off. I know we have issues with education, but to say that Obama talks over the heads of Americans is a load of BS. It’s just some moron trying to push the “Democrats = elitist” agenda.

86 celticdragon  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 1:58:50pm

re: #83 Nimed

Really? I’m feeling a bit sorry for Barton now, but he should’ve known better. I heard he was even letting Tony Hayward kiss him the mouth.

Along with posing in the sexy negligee and stockings.

How tragic. Another example of youthful idealism corrupted by an oozing, oily tool.

//sarc

87 celticdragon  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:00:57pm

re: #85 marjoriemoon

I don’t at all. We deserve a whole lot better. We work like animals, much more than the Europeans. The fact that our educational system is in the crapper is because of Republicans, not Democrats.

That article really pissed me off. I know we have issues with education, but to say that Obama talks over the heads of Americans is a load of BS. It’s just some moron trying to push the “Democrats = elitist” agenda.

The point is that we allow our democracy to be subverted by amoral interests, and we knowingly vote for mendacity and self destructive policies and politicians.

We have met the enemy and he is us.

88 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:01:36pm

I can’t wait for our usual wingnuts to spam VDH’s latest nonsense in the Pages like they always do: Obama’s Gulf War III

Now our Oedipus (Obama -ed) is reduced to raging in his halls against BP, with thousands of hard-working Louisianans and other Gulfers the losers for this divine reminder about the wages of hubris.


Idiots.

89 PatA  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:02:28pm

Joe was right. It is a shake down. He shouldn’t have apologized, he should have stood his ground. If anyone thinks this $20Billion will be used for other than political payoffs they are nutz..

90 freetoken  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:03:06pm

I see that someone promoted my Pages link on the Human Events AGW=evolution=evil story.

To follow up on that, to show how the anti-AGW-science movement is indeed following on the heels of the anti-evolutionists, this came across the wires today:


Global warming book withdrawn

Millard Public Schools will stop using a children’s book about global warming — but only until the district can obtain copies with a factual error corrected.

A review committee, convened after parents complained, concluded that author Laurie David’s book, “The Down-to-Earth Guide to Global Warming,” contained “a major factual error” in a graphic about rising temperatures and carbon dioxide levels.

[…]

Three parents, including Robyn Terry, complained to the district. The Terrys’ 12-year-old son attended Beadle Middle School last year. Mrs. Terry said that the materials used in his class portrayed global warming as fact when scientists disagree.

In the video, DiCaprio attributes global warming to mankind’s “destructive addiction” to oil. He says “big corporations” and politicians gained too much money and power “on our addiction,” making them “dangerously resistant to change.”

In the letter to parents, Feldhausen said the committee recognized there are “multiple viewpoints” on global warming. The committee recommended that all teachers using the book “make students aware of both sides of the global warming theory,” he said.

This is 100% TEACH THE CONTROVERSY. Whatever the error in the book, this is highly analogous to the Haeckel drawings brouhaha that has come up time and again wrt evolution.

91 lostlakehiker  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:03:15pm

re: #24 EmmmieG

BP chose to engage in risky behavior.

What risky means is that there is a big risk (or chance) that something really bad is going to happen, but also a chance that it won’t, and there will be a payoff.

In this case, the bad stuff happened. Just like they would have taken all the benefit of getting the oil faster and with less overhead, they get to take all the blame, and the liability.

Risky does not mean edgy, or cool, or extreme, it means there is a very real chance that something bad is going to happen because of your behavior, and you’ll have to accept the bad.

Teenagers need to be taught this, and so do corporations.

The trouble is that all too often, the payoff is a nearly sure thing and quite substantial, and the downside is a somewhat remote possibility with an insanely big price tag. So big the company simply cannot pay. Thus with derivative traders, credit default swap bettors, and so on, many of them now bailed out and stood up to try their luck again.

With BP, the upside was tens of millions of dollars. The downside is tens of billions. But managers aren’t given due credit for being careful and avoiding risks of 1 percent or so in which the price of failure is far greater than 100 times the payoff for getting away with it. 99 times out of 100, the man making the risky decision looks good; looks courageous, etc. while the guy who avoids the risk simply looks timid.

A company that routinely accepts such objectively bad bets, though, eventually runs through its luck and hits the inevitable “remote” contingency blowout. And then there’s hell to pay. There needs to be a new reward structure that absolutely insists on proper precautions. And part of that should be that audits of firms engaged in risky businesses should probe into the corporate approach to risk, and put a number on the probability that the company will experience a devastating “accident”.

We ticket speeders, even when they have had no accident. Such audits would allow the stock price of a lead-footed company to reflect that tendency to take chances and cut corners.

92 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:03:21pm

re: #89 PatA

Joe was right. It is a shake down. He shouldn’t have apologized, he should have stood his ground. If anyone thinks this $20Billion will be used for other than political payoffs they are nutz..

…and that why you’re an idiot.

93 CuriousLurker  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:03:28pm

House Republicans told Barton to apologize or lose his committee seat

House Republican leaders told Rep. Joe Barton that he would be stripped of his ranking member status on a key committee Thursday if he did not immediately apologize for comments earlier in the day accusing President Obama of a “shakedown” of oil giant BP, sources told the Daily Caller.

“He was told, ‘Apologize, immediately. Or you will lose your position, immediately,” a House GOP leadership aide said, describing a meeting between Barton and House Minority Leader John Boehner and House Minority Whip Eric Cantor.

[Link: dailycaller.com…]

94 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:03:45pm

re: #85 marjoriemoon

The fact that our educational system is in the crapper is because of Republicans, not Democrats.

Marjorie, dear…puh-leeze…

95 Nimed  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:04:08pm

re: #67 SanFranciscoZionist

There’s a distinction between ‘using a disaster to push an agenda’ and ‘responding to a disaster from the philosophy implied by your overall agenda’.

Cap and Trade would have been impossible to pass in the Senate before the spill. Now that all this happened, it’s… still impossible to pass.

One would think the larger story here would be the impotence of the Administration to push their agenda through Congress, regardless of what favorable events may occur in the real world.

96 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:04:46pm

re: #89 PatA

Joe was right. It is a shake down. He shouldn’t have apologized, he should have stood his ground. If anyone thinks this $20Billion will be used for other than political payoffs they are nutz..

Can I call it or what?

97 What, me worry?  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:05:02pm

Drat, gotta dash… catch you lizards later.re: #87 celticdragon

The point is that we allow our democracy to be subverted by amoral interests, and we knowingly vote for mendacity and self destructive policies and politicians.

We have met the enemy and he is us.

I don’t agree! If you’re trying to say we are HUMANS and subject to fault and frailty, well that’s a given. And yes, there are people who purposefully con their constituents (say one thing, but have other intent) , but I don’t think that’s the majority at all.

Rick Scott is running for Gov of Florida. The man’s a cold hearted crook and a fraud and if he becomes Florida’s next governor, then I will agree with you 100%…. and I’ll strongly consider leaving the state.

98 celticdragon  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:05:06pm

re: #89 PatA

Joe was right. It is a shake down. He shouldn’t have apologized, he should have stood his ground. If anyone thinks this $20Billion will be used for other than political payoffs they are nutz..

Teh stupid is strong with this one…

99 What, me worry?  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:05:14pm

re: #94 Aceofwhat?

Marjorie, dear…puh-leeze…

I love it when you beg.

100 What, me worry?  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:05:47pm

re: #94 Aceofwhat?

Marjorie, dear…puh-leeze…

lol I gotta dash. I’ll be back in a bit. Hopefully I’ll pick this up later.

101 Amory Blaine  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:06:56pm

re: #94 Aceofwhat?

Ketchup is a vegetable.

102 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:07:59pm

re: #90 freetoken

This is 100% TEACH THE CONTROVERSY. Whatever the error in the book, this is highly analogous to the Haeckel drawings brouhaha that has come up time and again wrt evolution.

Agree. OTOH, if we’re just trying to teach them the science, why the hell was Leo DiCaprio on a companion video spouting off about “big corporations”? Knucklheads…

103 lostlakehiker  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:08:24pm

re: #77 marjoriemoon

Oh look at the shiny red ball I have in my hand! Over here!! See it??

(We Americans are so stupid, we can’t understand Obama’s speech that was made for your average 10th grader so ya gotta figure we’re easily distracted.)

Obama isn’t aiming his speech at the truly slow of wit. They would never care about anything so abstract anyhow. He’s aiming it at the top half of the electorate, the ones who can read a newspaper, who might watch TV news rather than some light entertainment, etc.

It is worth noting that in past generations, presidents could get away with using more complicated language and bigger words. How would the Gettysburg address have scored? How would Roosevelt’s speeches score?

104 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:08:33pm

re: #95 Nimed

Cap and Trade would have been impossible to pass in the Senate before the spill. Now that all this happened, it’s… still impossible to pass.

One would think the larger story here would be the impotence of the Administration to push their agenda through Congress, regardless of what favorable events may occur in the real world.

Good. Cap and trade is a bad idea. We should go pigovian.

105 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:08:55pm

re: #100 marjoriemoon

lol I gotta dash. I’ll be back in a bit. Hopefully I’ll pick this up later.

*wink*

106 webevintage  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:09:00pm

re: #89 PatA

Joe was right. It is a shake down. He shouldn’t have apologized, he should have stood his ground. If anyone thinks this $20Billion will be used for other than political payoffs they are nutz..

Besides being offensive to the President this really impugns the integrity of Kenneth Feinberg who is going to be in charge of the fund.

Or maybe you are just a moron.

107 darthstar  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:09:38pm

re: #76 Aceofwhat?

yawn

But it’s still a funny comment.

108 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:09:45pm

re: #106 webevintage

Besides being offensive to the President this really impugns the integrity of Kenneth Feinberg who is going to be in charge of the fund.

Or maybe you are just a moron.

8 comments in a year, I think he’s already gone, hah

109 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:10:03pm

re: #89 PatA

Joe was right. It is a shake down. He shouldn’t have apologized, he should have stood his ground. If anyone thinks this $20Billion will be used for other than political payoffs they are nutz..

Stop being a caricature of a conservative.

110 darthstar  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:10:54pm

re: #93 CuriousLurker

House Republicans told Barton to apologize or lose his committee seat

House Republican leaders told Rep. Joe Barton that he would be stripped of his ranking member status on a key committee Thursday if he did not immediately apologize for comments earlier in the day accusing President Obama of a “shakedown” of oil giant BP, sources told the Daily Caller.

“He was told, ‘Apologize, immediately. Or you will lose your position, immediately,” a House GOP leadership aide said, describing a meeting between Barton and House Minority Leader John Boehner and House Minority Whip Eric Cantor.


Yo, Barton…THAT’S a fuckin’ “shakedown”…how does it feel?

111 celticdragon  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:11:01pm

re: #94 Aceofwhat?

Marjorie, dear…puh-leeze…

I have to go with her on that. The GOP has been blaming teachers and the scary teacher’s unions for decades while studiously chopping funds for classroom improvements and property taxes that support schools.

People want to point fingers at the teachers for their little darling failing the GOP mandated high stakes testing(wouldn’t it be nice if mom and dad got little darling to do homework and stay awake in class)…so teachers teach to the test and history, science, geography and music go right down the drain.

Never mind that the schools are falling apart, the textbooks are falling apart and the classrooms are often over-crowded because of the hiring freeze…

112 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:11:33pm

re: #107 darthstar

But it’s still a funny comment.

Yeah, i liked it too.

You and i feel differently about DKos, but only to the point where i like to throw a gentle elbow in your direction from time to time…

113 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:12:00pm

re: #111 celticdragon

I have to go with her on that. The GOP has been blaming teachers and the scary teacher’s unions for decades while studiously chopping funds for classroom improvements and property taxes that support schools.

People want to point fingers at the teachers for their little darling failing the GOP mandated high stakes testing(wouldn’t it be nice if mom and dad got little darling to do homework and stay awake in class)…so teachers teach to the test and history, science, geography and music go right down the drain.

Never mind that the schools are falling apart, the textbooks are falling apart and the classrooms are often over-crowded because of the hiring freeze…

Property taxes are going down? Where?

114 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:12:05pm

re: #95 Nimed

Cap and Trade would have been impossible to pass in the Senate before the spill. Now that all this happened, it’s… still impossible to pass.

One would think the larger story here would be the impotence of the Administration to push their agenda through Congress, regardless of what favorable events may occur in the real world.

Ayep. The bill had a snowball’s chance in Hell before the spill, and even less of one now. The Dems know that trying to ram it through will be interpreted, rightly or wrongly, as trying to profit off this disaster and so aren’t going to take the chance. Perhaps after the elections, they might try to do so as a dead-duck Congress, but I’m not holding my breath.

Besides, Cap and Trade isn’t needed since the EPA will be using the recent declaration of CO2 as “harmful” to humans and environment to institute their own taxes and restrictions.

115 Amory Blaine  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:12:28pm

re: #89 PatA

From NBC Article: “The fund will be managed by Washington attorney Kenneth Feinberg, who has gained fame as the Treasury’s “pay czar” after Wall Street’s near meltdown in 2008 and as the overseer of payments to families of victims after the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

So the guy managing the money, who oversaw the 9/11 victims fund, is some kind of political crook looking to pay off who?

Is there nothing you won’t believe?

116 sagehen  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:12:49pm

re: #58 SanFranciscoZionist

Right up there with ‘San Francisco values’. It’s a throwaway line, and no one wants to say outright what they mean by it.

So would San Francisco values be, like… I dunno, Levi’s, Apple, Google?

‘cuz I find those values pretty damn valuable.

117 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:13:10pm

re: #111 celticdragon

I have to go with her on that. The GOP has been blaming teachers and the scary teacher’s unions for decades while studiously chopping funds for classroom improvements and property taxes that support schools.

People want to point fingers at the teachers for their little darling failing the GOP mandated high stakes testing(wouldn’t it be nice if mom and dad got little darling to do homework and stay awake in class)…so teachers teach to the test and history, science, geography and music go right down the drain.

Never mind that the schools are falling apart, the textbooks are falling apart and the classrooms are often over-crowded because of the hiring freeze…

Are you sure that you want me to wreck this post with a few simple spending charts and graphs, or do you want to back off of the hyperbole a bit? No harm done…i enjoy a good round of hyperbole…but saying that schools have ‘gone without’ over the past 20 years is like saying you can’t be a public employee in California and put bread on the table/

118 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:13:25pm

re: #111 celticdragon

Totally.

it’s like, when the GOP’s platform is to weaken public education, demonize the teacher’s unions, attack established science itself, and push public money into private education, how does that NOT result in crappier public education?

119 darthstar  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:13:28pm

re: #89 PatA

Joe was right. It is a shake down. He shouldn’t have apologized, he should have stood his ground. If anyone thinks this $20Billion will be used for other than political payoffs they are nutz..

URNUTZ@!

(note: I really want to get some of these for my Smart car…then, after I get some pics, I’ll put them on my dad’s golf cart).

120 KingKenrod  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:13:33pm

re: #88 Killgore Trout

I can’t wait for our usual wingnuts to spam VDH’s latest nonsense in the Pages like they always do: Obama’s Gulf War III
Idiots.

What wait? Tell us what you think.

121 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:13:59pm

re: #101 Amory Blaine

Ketchup is a vegetable.

uncle.

i don’t get it…

122 Ericus58  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:14:28pm

re: #71 Nimed

Seattle values are also taking a hit on account of that story of a cop punching a woman in the face totally “in the line of duty” for jaywalking.

The silver lining is that New York values are looking comparatively good, even in Greater Wingnutia!

Total mis-representation of the incident.
The LEO was there at the request from the business and the school to SPD to help monitor for the constant jaywalking activity - even though there is a skybridge right at the corner for pedestrians to use.
Both of these ladies have prior history of suspended sentences for either assault on juveniles or another LEO.

Watch the video and read about it to know more about the issue.

123 Nimed  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:14:43pm

re: #104 Aceofwhat?

Good. Cap and trade is a bad idea. We should go pigovian.

But Cap and Trade pigovian in its essence. It’s not a straight carbon tax (which would have an even smaller chance of becoming legislation), but the bottom line is pretty similar to that of a standard pigovian tax — it puts a price tag on a negative externality.

124 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:14:43pm

re: #58 SanFranciscoZionist

Right up there with ‘San Francisco values’. It’s a throwaway line, and no one wants to say outright what they mean by it.

What they mean by “San Francisco values” is they don’t like queers.

YEAH I WENT THERE

125 lostlakehiker  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:15:16pm

re: #85 marjoriemoon

I don’t at all. We deserve a whole lot better. We work like animals, much more than the Europeans. The fact that our educational system is in the crapper is because of Republicans, not Democrats.

That article really pissed me off. I know we have issues with education, but to say that Obama talks over the heads of Americans is a load of BS. It’s just some moron trying to push the “Democrats = elitist” agenda.

Oh? And it’s most particularly in the crapper in states such as North Dakota, Republican strongholds? Or is perhaps education worse in the cities that Democrats have ruled since before the beginning of time?

Who brought us “whole word” reading? California Democrats. Who brought us New Math, with its “progressive” emphasis on concepts, to the exclusion of any knowledge of basic facts such as the times table? Who brought us teachers unions, and with it, the impossibility of dismissing even teachers with no knack for teaching and little enthusiasm for it?

Just because Republicans are responsible for the gutting of biology instruction in many public school systems is no reason to let the democrats off the hook for having made a mess of the teaching of reading, writing, and arithmetic. Without these, no true understanding of evolution is possible in any case.

126 Sionainn  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:15:37pm

re: #93 CuriousLurker

House Republicans told Barton to apologize or lose his committee seat

House Republican leaders told Rep. Joe Barton that he would be stripped of his ranking member status on a key committee Thursday if he did not immediately apologize for comments earlier in the day accusing President Obama of a “shakedown” of oil giant BP, sources told the Daily Caller.

“He was told, ‘Apologize, immediately. Or you will lose your position, immediately,” a House GOP leadership aide said, describing a meeting between Barton and House Minority Leader John Boehner and House Minority Whip Eric Cantor.

[Link: dailycaller.com…]

Now that’s a shakedown.

127 darthstar  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:15:45pm

re: #121 Aceofwhat?

uncle.

i don’t get it…

It was something that came out of Reagan’s presidency…school lunches & shit…Ketchup was declared a serving of vegetables so they could justify french fries (this is in the pre-freedom fry day)

128 Sionainn  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:16:07pm

re: #110 darthstar

Yo, Barton…THAT’S a fuckin’ “shakedown”…how does it feel?

I should’ve read ahead.

129 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:16:33pm

Allahpundit sez….

The other pity of Barton’s sympathy act is that it obscures the fact that he has a legitimate complaint about the escrow account. Dan McLaughlin points me to this Journal op-ed which sums things up nicely:
[A] government-administered fund more or less guarantees a more politicized payment process. The escrow administrator will be chosen by the White House, and as such would be influenced by the Administration’s political goals. Those goals would include payments to those harmed by the Administration’s own six-month deep water drilling ban. That reckless policy will soon put thousands of Gulf Coast residents out of work, but the White House knows that BP isn’t liable under current law for those claims. The escrow account is an attempt to tap BP’s funds by other means to pay the costs of Mr. Obama’s own policy blunder.

Bwahaha! Keep it up dummies! Obama and the Dems are blessed with the dumbest enemies ever. These idiots are not going to give up no matter how many times the embarrass themselves.

130 darthstar  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:16:35pm

re: #124 WindUpBird

What they mean by “San Francisco values” is they don’t like queers.

YEAH I WENT THERE

That’s only because every time a Republican gets caught with one he has to apologize to his wife on TV.

131 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:16:46pm

re: #128 Sionainn

I should’ve read ahead.

That’ll be a 2 football demerit for you…

132 Sionainn  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:17:15pm

re: #113 MandyManners

Property taxes are going down? Where?

Las Vegas.

133 darthstar  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:17:20pm

re: #128 Sionainn

I should’ve read ahead.

That’s alright…it’s worth repeating…besides, find me an original thought on the internet and I’ll find you five or six people who’ve copied it.

134 Amory Blaine  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:17:21pm

re: #125 lostlakehiker

Comparing cities with millions of poor people to teach with a rural state of less than one million total is disingenuous at best and incredibly naive at worst.

135 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:17:26pm

re: #119 darthstar

Smart car needs more ‘Busa:

Youtube Video
136 celticdragon  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:17:34pm

re: #113 MandyManners

Property taxes are going down? Where?

It started in California decades ago with prop 9 and 11…and the school funding was chopped. Badly.

When you see local taxes being attacked by “conservative” politicians, you know that schools will take it on the chin.

Of course, the pols complain that the local government is merely holding the schools hostage to make them look bad, but they know damned good and well that schools are always the first to get cut.

It is also funny that the Tea party has an increasingly vocal group that agitates for no public schooling at all for anybody. They can’t find it in the Constitution, so they say.

137 [deleted]  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:18:51pm
138 RadicalModerate  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:20:38pm

Barton was just on CNN sounding like a weasel.

Regarding Joe Biden’s describing his apology to BP, and “shakedown” comment as outrageous:

“Well, the Vice President has the right to free speech”

139 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:21:29pm

re: #125 lostlakehiker

Oh? And it’s most particularly in the crapper in states such as North Dakota, Republican strongholds? Or is perhaps education worse in the cities that Democrats have ruled since before the beginning of time?

Who brought us “whole word” reading? California Democrats. Who brought us New Math, with its “progressive” emphasis on concepts, to the exclusion of any knowledge of basic facts such as the times table? Who brought us teachers unions, and with it, the impossibility of dismissing even teachers with no knack for teaching and little enthusiasm for it?

Just because Republicans are responsible for the gutting of biology instruction in many public school systems is no reason to let the democrats off the hook for having made a mess of the teaching of reading, writing, and arithmetic. Without these, no true understanding of evolution is possible in any case.


hahaha here we go with the teacher’s unions, here’ll I’ll just rewrite your post for you:

Boilerplate GOP taking point Boilerplate GOP taking point Boilerplate GOP taking point Boilerplate GOP taking point Boilerplate GOP taking point Boilerplate GOP taking point Boilerplate GOP taking point Boilerplate GOP taking point

There we go!

140 darthstar  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:21:42pm

Joe Barton Apology site is up…click the apology to get to the next one.

Joe Barton would like to apologize to:
Tony Hayward. Totaly forgot to tickle your balls. Know how you love that. Want to go for another round?

141 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:22:03pm

re: #138 RadicalModerate

PLEASE BARTON

KEEP TALKING :D

142 celticdragon  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:22:12pm

re: #117 Aceofwhat?

Are you sure that you want me to wreck this post with a few simple spending charts and graphs, or do you want to back off of the hyperbole a bit? No harm done…i enjoy a good round of hyperbole…but saying that schools have ‘gone without’ over the past 20 years is like saying you can’t be a public employee in California and put bread on the table/

I grew up in a teacher’s family. I think I have a little more personal experience then you do on this.

I happen to remember not being able to afford fresh milk. The salary only applied to the months you were in school, and in the summer, my dad worked as a furniture mover. Times do change and I imagine the pay scales are different now, butthe GOP still screams about teacher’s unions, and No Child Left Behind is despised by most teacher’s I know.

143 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:22:18pm

re: #93 CuriousLurker

House Republicans told Barton to apologize or lose his committee seat

House Republican leaders told Rep. Joe Barton that he would be stripped of his ranking member status on a key committee Thursday if he did not immediately apologize for comments earlier in the day accusing President Obama of a “shakedown” of oil giant BP, sources told the Daily Caller.

“He was told, ‘Apologize, immediately. Or you will lose your position, immediately,” a House GOP leadership aide said, describing a meeting between Barton and House Minority Leader John Boehner and House Minority Whip Eric Cantor.

[Link: dailycaller.com…]

Pleased to hear that they’re pulling their people into line. That will make this slightly less insane.

144 joest73  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:22:31pm

re: #89 PatA

Joe was right. It is a shake down. He shouldn’t have apologized, he should have stood his ground. If anyone thinks this $20Billion will be used for other than political payoffs they are nutz..

I don’t think many are arguing that BP shouldn’t reimburse the govt. and the people from the gulf area. Aside from the theater, what did any of these hearing accomplish? A did hear a few of Waxman’s questions and they were completely out of line.

I have little sympathy for Hayward, but I’ll give the guy credit for being the fall guy for BP. I would have liked to hear Hayward accept responsibility for the incident but also say that the lack of response from the US federal government has not made the situation any better for the people in the gulf region.

145 darthstar  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:23:29pm

re: #140 darthstar

Ha! He would like to apologize to Warren Jeffs for breaking up his family…

146 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:23:29pm

re: #123 Nimed

But Cap and Trade pigovian in its essence. It’s not a straight carbon tax (which would have an even smaller chance of becoming legislation), but the bottom line is pretty similar to that of a standard pigovian tax — it puts a price tag on a negative externality.

Its dissimilarities are market-distorting. Allowances, unlike a tax, need to be distributed and managed by the government.

You know, because they’re so good at managing other important things, like oil rigs.

Why fool around with C/T when its best case scenario is an approximation of a pigovian tax when we can just apply a pigovian tax? I’m missing something here, probably - need your help.

147 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:24:50pm

re: #127 darthstar

It was something that came out of Reagan’s presidency…school lunches & shit…Ketchup was declared a serving of vegetables so they could justify french fries (this is in the pre-freedom fry day)

Oh, you mean it was something that came out of the democratic-controlled congress during Reagan’s tenure?

Ok. Sounds like a terrible idea - i agree!

(oh, and for the record, i like getting rid of vending machines in schools. ban them all.)

148 celticdragon  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:26:24pm

re: #125 lostlakehiker

…a mess of the teaching of reading, writing, and arithmetic.

God help us, the thread has gone to hell. Readin’, writin’ an ‘rithmatic.

Them dag-blamed teachers is screwing up the young-uns, I tells ya! Not teaching the three “R”s! That’s all I needed, and that’s all they need, by crackee!

149 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:26:56pm

re: #129 Killgore Trout

Allahpundit sez…

Bwahaha! Keep it up dummies! Obama and the Dems are blessed with the dumbest enemies ever. These idiots are not going to give up no matter how many times the embarrass themselves.

Yeah, that’s dumb. I disagree with the moratorium too, but i feel a lot better about it if those poor folks are going to be reimbursed for their time on BP’s dime…

150 Sionainn  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:27:26pm

re: #140 darthstar

Joe Barton Apology site is up…click the apology to get to the next one.

Joe Barton would like to apologize to:
Tony Hayward. Totaly forgot to tickle your balls. Know how you love that. Want to go for another round?

That was frickin’ hilarious! Note: Even if you think you have gone through all of the apologies, keep clicking because more and more come up. It’s on some random thingy that isn’t in order so some of them keep coming up more frequently than others.

151 darthstar  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:27:32pm

re: #147 Aceofwhat?

Department of Agriculture under Reagan, actually.

152 darthstar  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:28:03pm

re: #151 darthstar

Department of Agriculture under Reagan, actually.

Reporting on the proposed directive, Newsweek magazine illustrated their story with a bottle of ketchup captioned “now a vegetable.”[2] The proposed directive was criticized by Nutritionists and Democratic politicians who staged photo ops where they dined on nutrition-poor meals that conformed to the new lax standards. After that, the Reagan Administration’s policy was never implemented.

153 alexknyc  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:28:12pm

re: #127 darthstar

It was something that came out of Reagan’s presidency…school lunches & shit…Ketchup was declared a serving of vegetables so they could justify french fries (this is in the pre-freedom fry day)

Almost, but not quite.

It was never implemented.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

154 lostlakehiker  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:28:13pm

re: #134 Amory Blaine

Comparing cities with millions of poor people to teach with a rural state of less than one million total is disingenuous at best and incredibly naive at worst.

Those same poor people do far better when given a chance at a voucher, or at a public school where the principle and the teachers are on the ball. They perfectly well can learn to read and write. They can perfectly well learn their times table. Look at what Michelle Rhee is doing in DC. The abysmal results posted in that city prior to her work were not destiny, they were the fruit of bad policy.

Now Ms. Rhee isn’t going to be able to work miracles and bring DC schools to the front of the pack, outshining say Montgomery Blair HS in Silver Springs, MD. But they are much improved already, and there is clearly room for further improvement. To the extent that there is room for major improvement within feasible budget constraints, to that extent the current pattern of failure is indeed the responsibility of the schools.

How shall we compare Republican run schools to Democrat, when Democrats run all the big city systems and always have? The excuse that no better results are possible, given who they have to teach, is both demeaning and flies in the face of the evidence from results achieved in parochial schools and in public schools where a real effort has been made to turn things around.

155 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:28:25pm

re: #139 WindUpBird

hahaha here we go with the teacher’s unions, here’ll I’ll just rewrite your post for you:

Boilerplate GOP taking point Boilerplate GOP taking point Boilerplate GOP taking point Boilerplate GOP taking point Boilerplate GOP taking point Boilerplate GOP taking point Boilerplate GOP taking point Boilerplate GOP taking point

There we go!

Sure, it’s too broad of a blanket, but i have a few dear schoolteacher friends and they hate it too. If you think that a scary number of local unions don’t protect bad teachers at the expense of students, you don’t know enough good teachers. Simple as that.

156 darthstar  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:29:24pm

re: #143 SanFranciscoZionist

Pleased to hear that they’re pulling their people into line. That will make this slightly less insane.

Even Cantor and Boehner, on a rare day, can tell when someone’s gone over the line. Apologizing to BP isn’t exactly at the top of most Americans’ list of things we need to be doing right now.

157 darthstar  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:29:44pm

re: #153 alexknyc

Yep…posted that.

158 freetoken  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:30:12pm

re: #154 lostlakehiker


How shall we compare Republican run schools to Democrat, when Democrats run all the big city systems and always have?

At least here, the school board is a non-partisan political body, and that is true of many local elected offices as well.

159 Amory Blaine  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:30:13pm

re: #154 lostlakehiker

Yes lostlakehiker. You win. It is all the democrats fault that children can’t read. It is also those lazy greedy union teachers fault too. You have it all figured out.

I’m sorry.

160 celticdragon  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:30:49pm

re: #154 lostlakehiker

Those same poor people do far better when given a chance at a voucher, or at a public school where the principle and the teachers are on the ball.

Ah, yes…

The teachers are always at fault. Little Johnny never spent his time on the B-Ball court instead of reading his assignments and doing math problems. Better to blame it on those uninspiring teachers.

Can I have some more Cyanide Kool Aid, please?

161 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:30:58pm

re: #110 darthstar

Yo, Barton…THAT’S a fuckin’ “shakedown”…how does it feel?

Boehner and Cantor seem to be good at this, actually. Godspeed to them, it’s gonna be a rough couple of years for wrangling Congressmen.

162 alexknyc  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:31:18pm

re: #151 darthstar

Damn! Beat me by 40 seconds.

163 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:32:21pm

re: #116 sagehen

So would San Francisco values be, like… I dunno, Levi’s, Apple, Google?

‘cuz I find those values pretty damn valuable.

We also believe in good restaurants. And bolting tall bookcases to the wall.

164 Nimed  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:32:56pm

re: #146 Aceofwhat?

Its dissimilarities are market-distorting. Allowances, unlike a tax, need to be distributed and managed by the government.

You know, because they’re so good at managing other important things, like oil rigs.

Why fool around with C/T when its best case scenario is an approximation of a pigovian tax when we can just apply a pigovian tax? I’m missing something here, probably - need your help.

I basically agree with you. A straight tax would be a much better solution. The problem is that it would also be much harder to pass (we can go into the reasons for this if you wish).

But C/T is not that much more bureaucratic. The government would indeed have to distribute the allowances, and of course all kinds of shady favoritisms and exceptions can happen at this stage. But beyond this point, companies pretty much just buy and sell emission right to each other.

165 darthstar  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:33:02pm

re: #163 SanFranciscoZionist

We also believe in good restaurants. And bolting tall bookcases full of books that should be burned to the wall.


FTFY
//

166 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:33:14pm

re: #124 WindUpBird

What they mean by “San Francisco values” is they don’t like queers.

YEAH I WENT THERE

Totally true. And no one will come out and say it when you challenge them.

167 lostlakehiker  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:33:45pm

re: #139 WindUpBird

hahaha here we go with the teacher’s unions, here’ll I’ll just rewrite your post for you:

Boilerplate GOP taking point Boilerplate GOP taking point Boilerplate GOP taking point Boilerplate GOP taking point Boilerplate GOP taking point Boilerplate GOP taking point Boilerplate GOP taking point Boilerplate GOP taking point

There we go!

You might try reading for comprehension. Kids stuck with bad teachers make only half the progress in a year that they’d make with an average teacher. In any system where merit played a role, teachers in the bottom few percent would be sent packing.

You have a national disaster on your hands, one that’s gone on for decades, and all you can think of is to defend your own turf.

Oh, and the word you were looking for is “taLking”, with an L.

168 RayGunIsDead  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:34:08pm

Cons suck. My first post.

169 darthstar  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:34:42pm

re: #168 RayGunIsDead

Cons suck. My first post.

Welcome to the machine.

170 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:34:55pm

re: #136 celticdragon


It is also funny that the Tea party has an increasingly vocal group that agitates for no public schooling at all for anybody. They can’t find it in the Constitution, so they say.

There is a no-longer-so-lurking dislike of public education as a concept on the right fringe. God willing, it will stay as fringe as it can be pushed.

171 freetoken  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:36:30pm

re: #168 RayGunIsDead

Cons suck.


I don’t know about that… Comic-Con is usually well received. Comes around here in July.

172 Amory Blaine  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:37:12pm

re: #171 freetoken

My friends loved Gen-Con

173 lostlakehiker  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:37:47pm

re: #159 Amory Blaine

Yes lostlakehiker. You win. It is all the democrats fault that children can’t read. It is also those lazy greedy union teachers fault too. You have it all figured out.

I’m sorry.

Is Michelle Rhee a Republican? Did I miss something? You have a reformer in DC now. You might try and learn from her success and emulate it. There is great potential here, if you but cared.

You have had a near monopoly of power at the big city level for decades. Now, you have it across the board. You have reformers in your own ranks, doing great things within their sphere. Take it national. Act. You are the ones you’ve been waiting for, but the waiting must end. You see what can be done, you see how it must be done, you see that it must be done.

Will you do it? Or will you just sit back and blame us?

174 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:37:51pm

re: #147 Aceofwhat?

Oh, you mean it was something that came out of the democratic-controlled congress during Reagan’s tenure?

Ok. Sounds like a terrible idea - i agree!

(oh, and for the record, i like getting rid of vending machines in schools. ban them all.)

We had a milk machine at one of the schools I worked at. Plain, chocolate and strawberry, all low-fat, and not too bad nutritionally. The kids liked it.

At the high school I just left we had one with candy bars and chips, but the groundskeeper kept experimenting with putting ‘more foodlike items’ in it.

It was covered with purple fabric and taped on Ash Wednesday.

175 RayGunIsDead  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:38:49pm

“My friends loved Gen-Con”

Brig Gen RayCon?

176 sagehen  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:38:50pm

re: #154 lostlakehiker


How shall we compare Republican run schools to Democrat, when Democrats run all the big city systems and always have?

Texas textbook commission.

That’s all I have to say on the matter.

177 sagehen  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:39:42pm

re: #163 SanFranciscoZionist

We also believe in good restaurants. And bolting tall bookcases to the wall.

Ghiradelli.

178 celticdragon  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:40:27pm

re: #167 lostlakehiker

Kids stuck with bad teachers make only half the progress in a year that they’d make with an average teacher.

Chock full of truthiness boilerplate!

What in the hell is your measuring criteria for a “good” teacher?

Grade average?

Funny how even modestly talented teachers can do wonders in well funded schools with intact family structures (like Fairfax, Virgina) versus dedicated, experienced teachers in Detroit stuck with street gangs, drugs and children who never met their father.

But you don’t want to admit to anthropological reality and the differences that high property tax values make in schools.

You want to sneer about teachers.

I will admit that whomever got stuck with you in school had a bad year.

179 lostlakehiker  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:40:55pm

re: #148 celticdragon

God help us, the thread has gone to hell. Readin’, writin’ an ‘rithmatic.

Them dag-blamed teachers is screwing up the young-uns, I tells ya! Not teaching the three “R”s! That’s all I needed, and that’s all they need, by crackee!

They need that for starters. To pretend that these things are dispensable is outrageous. First actually teach these, and then we can talk about whether history, biology, physics, or music should receive more emphasis up the line.

180 Sionainn  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:43:08pm

re: #179 lostlakehiker

They need that for starters. To pretend that these things are dispensable is outrageous. First actually teach these, and then we can talk about whether history, biology, physics, or music should receive more emphasis up the line.

Is there actually a school that places more emphasis on history, biology, physics, and music than on reading, writing, and arithmetic?

181 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:43:45pm

re: #142 celticdragon

I grew up in a teacher’s family. I think I have a little more personal experience then you do on this.

I happen to remember not being able to afford fresh milk. The salary only applied to the months you were in school, and in the summer, my dad worked as a furniture mover. Times do change and I imagine the pay scales are different now, butthe GOP still screams about teacher’s unions, and No Child Left Behind is despised by most teacher’s I know.

Ok. Here’s k-12 spending since 1990. Now tell me again about the CUTS.

Times do change. Can we talk about this time?

[Link: www.usgovernmentspending.com…]

182 celticdragon  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:44:25pm

re: #180 Sionainn

Is there actually a school that places more emphasis on history, biology, physics, and music than on reading, writing, and arithmetic?

No. Lostlake is making strawmen to tilt at. He needs the exercise.

183 RayGunIsDead  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:44:43pm

Why do people without kids, have to pay any taxes, especially property taxes, for any kids schooling?

184 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:45:29pm

re: #151 darthstar

Department of Agriculture under Reagan, actually.

Ouch. Good one. Although, to his credit, it never actually happened. Any other fun things that never actually happened?

185 celticdragon  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:46:22pm

re: #181 Aceofwhat?

Ok. Here’s k-12 spending since 1990. Now tell me again about the CUTS.

Times do change. Can we talk about this time?

[Link: www.usgovernmentspending.com…]

Can we talk about how that spending is not uniform? Can we talk about well funded schools in affluent, white neighborhoods and rotting schools with old textbooks in inner city slums and rural areas?

186 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:46:48pm

re: #164 Nimed

I basically agree with you. A straight tax would be a much better solution. The problem is that it would also be much harder to pass (we can go into the reasons for this if you wish).

But C/T is not that much more bureaucratic. The government would indeed have to distribute the allowances, and of course all kinds of shady favoritisms and exceptions can happen at this stage. But beyond this point, companies pretty much just buy and sell emission right to each other.

Hey, i’m happy just to agree on the best solution. These things get easier to pass as we agree on them one person at a time!

187 Amory Blaine  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:47:17pm

re: #181 Aceofwhat?

But don’t populations rise? And hasn’t our requirement to compete with other countries driven us to fund schools at a higher rate than in the past? Hyperbole aside, we are still highly competitive in the world no?

188 Sionainn  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:47:27pm

re: #183 RayGunIsDead

Why do people without kids, have to pay any taxes, especially property taxes, for any kids schooling?

Seriously?

189 celticdragon  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:47:28pm

re: #184 Aceofwhat?

Ouch. Good one. Although, to his credit, it never actually happened. Any other fun things that never actually happened?

You think that the fact it was serious suggested (and would have been implemented had there not been an uproar about it) should be shame enough.

190 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:49:09pm

re: #185 celticdragon

Can we talk about how that spending is not uniform? Can we talk about well funded schools in affluent, white neighborhoods and rotting schools with old textbooks in inner city slums and rural areas?

Sure. if you’d wanted to do that, you’d have talked about funding distribution rather than funding decline, which is horsepoopy and you know it.

i think the majority of funding models are bunk, too. it should be the same per kid per state or county.

191 alexknyc  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:49:15pm

re: #185 celticdragon

Can we talk about how that spending is not uniform? Can we talk about well funded schools in affluent, white neighborhoods and rotting schools with old textbooks in inner city slums and rural areas?

As a teacher I’ve noticed something that probably isn’t unique to NYC.

Here, the newest teachers get placed in the least-desirable schools and, as soon as they’ve gotten enough seniority, high-tail it the hell out of them into more-desirable ones. How are the inner-city schools supposed to get any better when they get the most inexperienced teachers who leave as soon as they can?

But the seniority rules are something the teachers unions will fight to the death over.

192 celticdragon  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:49:15pm

re: #183 RayGunIsDead

Why do people without kids, have to pay any taxes, especially property taxes, for any kids schooling?

Maybe they don’t need an educated workforce to supply their food, electricity and other material needs…because a Taliban private religious school system would be so mega awesome.

193 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:50:16pm

re: #187 Amory Blaine

But don’t populations rise? And hasn’t our requirement to compete with other countries driven us to fund schools at a higher rate than in the past? Hyperbole aside, we are still highly competitive in the world no?

Sure. yes. absolutely.

I’m just not going to let a “ZOMG those evil republicans leeching money from our skoolz” rant go unburned!

Here’s to a more reasoned analysis!

194 celticdragon  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:51:42pm

re: #191 alexknyc

As a teacher I’ve noticed something that probably isn’t unique to NYC.

Here, the newest teachers get placed in the least-desirable schools and, as soon as they’ve gotten enough seniority, high-tail it the hell out of them into more-desirable ones. How are the inner-city schools supposed to get any better when they get the most inexperienced teachers who leave as soon as they can?

But the seniority rules are something the teachers unions will fight to the death over.

Good observation, although if you want to keep experienced teachers at an undesirable school, you have to pay them more. Otherwise, they wander off to other jobs.

Invisible hand of the marketplace and all that.

195 RayGunIsDead  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:52:05pm

celticdragon re: #192 celticdragon

Leave me alone, I can take care of myself.

196 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:52:29pm

re: #189 celticdragon

You think that the fact it was serious suggested (and would have been implemented had there not been an uproar about it) should be shame enough.

there are enough stupid ideas suggested during administrations of all ilk to fill another library of congress. yawn.

197 alexknyc  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:53:19pm

re: #194 celticdragon

Good observation, although if you want to keep experienced teachers at an undesirable school, you have to pay them more. Otherwise, they wander off to other jobs.

Invisible hand of the marketplace and all that.

Absolutely.

But the teachers union would never agree to pay teachers at one school more than teachers at another simply because of where they work.

198 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:55:31pm

re: #183 RayGunIsDead

Why do people without kids, have to pay any taxes, especially property taxes, for any kids schooling?

So your first post is “cons suck” and your second post is moldy libertarian flank steak?

I don’t follow.

199 Sionainn  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:55:50pm

re: #191 alexknyc

As a teacher I’ve noticed something that probably isn’t unique to NYC.

Here, the newest teachers get placed in the least-desirable schools and, as soon as they’ve gotten enough seniority, high-tail it the hell out of them into more-desirable ones. How are the inner-city schools supposed to get any better when they get the most inexperienced teachers who leave as soon as they can?

But the seniority rules are something the teachers unions will fight to the death over.

Yes, I’ve noticed that, too. Another thing to consider are the excellent experienced teachers who choose to stay and work in more challenging schools…base their pay on test scores and they’ll hightail it out of there.

200 Amory Blaine  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 3:01:11pm

re: #191 alexknyc

Same with my wife. She taught 8th grade science for a year in one of the worst middle schools in the city I live. I chaperoned her class to the “IMAX” theatre at the museum here. 3 of the girls in her class were pregnant. I was making more money than her and I was basically a glorified ditch digger at the time.

The last straw was when her students broke into her desk and threw all her research for the Masters she was working on out the windows. My wife cried all the time, spent our money on her students and worked about 70 hours a week. No shittier job than an inner city teacher.

201 celticdragon  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 3:01:49pm

re: #195 RayGunIsDead

celticdragon

Leave me alone, I can take care of myself.

Maybe the whole notion of living in a society with responsibilities just doesn’t work for you.

I hear Somalia is great this time of year. Libertarian wonderland! No taxes and all the ammunition and unlicensed RPG’s you want!

202 alexknyc  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 3:01:55pm

re: #199 Sionainn

Yes, I’ve noticed that, too. Another thing to consider are the excellent experienced teachers who choose to stay and work in more challenging schools…base their pay on test scores and they’ll hightail it out of there.

I work with a learning-disabled population so I understand that argument quite well.

Although, 26 of my 29 students passed the Regents Exam this week.

203 celticdragon  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 3:03:17pm

re: #199 Sionainn

Yes, I’ve noticed that, too. Another thing to consider are the excellent experienced teachers who choose to stay and work in more challenging schools…base their pay on test scores and they’ll hightail it out of there.

LostLake has trouble understanding that.

204 celticdragon  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 3:05:01pm

re: #200 Amory Blaine

Same with my wife. She taught 8th grade science for a year in one of the worst middle schools in the city I live. I chaperoned her class to the “IMAX” theatre at the museum here. 3 of the girls in her class were pregnant. I was making more money than her and I was basically a glorified ditch digger at the time.

The last straw was when her students broke into her desk and threw all her research for the Masters she was working on out the windows. My wife cried all the time, spent our money on her students and worked about 70 hours a week. No shittier job than an inner city teacher.

Wow. I am so sorry.

You just scared me half to death with that. I apply for my masters program this fall.

205 Amory Blaine  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 3:07:24pm

re: #204 celticdragon

Sorry. ;)

206 RayGunIsDead  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 3:09:23pm

re: #198 Aceofwhat?

Sorry,

My jist is, Cons like to force people to have kids (make abortions as hard to obtain as possible, same with birth control), but they don’t mind forcing others to pay for kids schooling (school taxes). I say let everyone pay for their own kids schooling, except the people least able to afford that schooling (the poor whom are mostly denied abortions and birth control). So basically, if you can demonstrably prove, you can not afford your own kids, then public help would kick in.

207 tradewind  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 3:17:51pm

re: #67 SanFranciscoZionist
There doesn’t seem to be much daylight between them in this case.
Instead of ’ We are the ones we’ve been waiting for’….. maybe this is the one they’ve been waiting for./

208 tradewind  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 3:19:16pm

re: #206 RayGunIsDead
In other words, ’ From each according to his means, to each according to his needs.’
Check.

209 RayGunIsDead  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 3:32:30pm

re: #208 tradewind

I like to say:

Cons, leave people alone and quite telling us what to do. Get off our backs about abortion, birth control, drugs, etc. Cons, give up your love of war, your love of the police, your love of telling others what to do and enforcing it with your Gods blessing.

That’s all I am trying t say.

210 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 3:35:40pm

re: #183 RayGunIsDead

Why do people without kids, have to pay any taxes, especially property taxes, for any kids schooling?

FACE


PALM

211 lostlakehiker  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 3:36:50pm

re: #176 sagehen

Texas textbook commission.

That’s all I have to say on the matter.

re: #178 celticdragon

Chock full of truthiness boilerplate!

What in the hell is your measuring criteria for a “good” teacher?

Grade average?

Funny how even modestly talented teachers can do wonders in well funded schools with intact family structures (like Fairfax, Virgina) versus dedicated, experienced teachers in Detroit stuck with street gangs, drugs and children who never met their father.

But you don’t want to admit to anthropological reality and the differences that high property tax values make in schools.

You want to sneer about teachers.

I will admit that whomever got stuck with you in school had a bad year.

I do admit anthropological reality. I said as much in an earlier post. There remains the fact that some schools do a far better job with a fair sample from the exact same demographic. With the rules you now have, and the teachers you now have, and the principles, and the system you have made and have sole responsibility for, you do very badly. Others, with less resources but operating under different rules, do better. Others from your own party and philosophical persuasion. With the difference that they will sacrifice whatever sacred cows they must, if that is what it takes to get results.

All these other problems grew on your watch too, by the way. Who was it who set up welfare so as to drive fathers out of the picture? You created rules that made it rational, at least superficially, for fathers with low earnings to take a hike. The same amount of aid could have been delivered in the context of rules that made it rational, even if only financial considerations were taken into account, for the father to stay the course.

As to sneering about teachers, I never said that all teachers were bad. But it is beyond question that some are bad, and that their replacement with others better suited to the duties of the job would improve the overall level of instruction.

Some, for that matter, are excellent. It might be a good idea to see about rewarding that excellence. A little recognition, a little bonus? Bonuses for schools that improve overall?

Kansas City, MO is the perfect test case for the notion that it’s shortage of funds that is the problem. The experiment ended with KCMO enjoying well over ten times the funds per child that rural MO schools got, and still failing. A federal judge ordered the state legislature to enact the bill he wrote for them, raising taxes so that KCMO could have not merely ten times, but twenty times, the money the others got. The SC ruled that judges cannot hand down legislation and order it enacted.

Bad management is the norm. We have examples before our eyes of good management. Good management is not an elixir that will propel the worst schools to the front of the pack, but it can make an enormous difference.

But not if you insist that bad management is good, up is down, and schools you have run since forever, are somebody else’s fault, somewhere else.

Oh, criteria for a good teacher? Their students score better at intake, in the next year, than do comparable students assigned at the start of their year to other teachers. Their students have progressed more than comparable students in similar schools or in different classes in the same school. What else would “good teacher” mean, than that their charges make above average progress compared to what anybody would expect looking at where they started?

And I know that every school must include its share of below-average teachers. That’s OK. We don’t live in Lake Wobegone. It’s the extreme cases who need to be pointed toward a different line of work.

212 Amory Blaine  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 3:38:29pm

re: #210 WindUpBird

Think of all the money I’ll save!!!!!!I’ll be able to put in a moat to keep the hordes out!!!!!!

213 lostlakehiker  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 3:39:04pm

re: #183 RayGunIsDead

Why do people without kids, have to pay any taxes, especially property taxes, for any kids schooling?

Because life gets nasty and the city finances crater if the town has bad schools or none at all. Good schools are a positive externality, if you like. It’s only fair you pay your share.

The adults those children will become are the ones who will pay your social security. You do OK out of the deal all in all.

214 RayGunIsDead  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 3:49:31pm

re: #213 lostlakehiker

“Because life gets nasty”,

“You do OK out of the deal all in all.”

All I am saying, is allow people to have free abortions, free birth control. Is that bad?

215 Sionainn  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 3:57:40pm

re: #202 alexknyc

I work with a learning-disabled population so I understand that argument quite well.

Although, 26 of my 29 students passed the Regents Exam this week.

Excellent!

216 Dr. Shalit  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 5:16:36pm

FWIW -

Rep. Barton WAS RIGHT - the First Time. The 20 Billion is a SLUSH FUND! Out of 20 Billion, 100 Million is EASY to steal. The BP Settlement IS the financing for the “Committee to Re-Elect President Obama” - a/k/a “CREEPO” so far as I am concerned. Discussion? -S-

217 blueraven  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 5:26:25pm

re: #67 SanFranciscoZionist

There’s a distinction between ‘using a disaster to push an agenda’ and ‘responding to a disaster from the philosophy implied by your overall agenda’.

But then you couldn’t parrot Rush. Where’s the fun in that?/

218 Jaerik  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 6:05:36pm

Shocking absolutely no one, Fox News edited out Barton’s apology from their coverage.

219 joest73  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 6:51:02pm

Krauthammer once again gets it right

220 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 6:57:15pm

re: #206 RayGunIsDead

What is a “jist” and why do you have one with a brain like that?

221 Jaerik  Thu, Jun 17, 2010 7:23:07pm

Looks like Fox is now back to airing it unedited after being called on it.


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