Looks like the word has gone out from the Republican bigwigs, telling the ranters to rein in their politically disastrous support for BP. That’s why you’re now seeing even loony Michele Bachmann dodging questions from, of all people, Bill O’Reilly. This is how deranged the GOP is becoming.
1 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:14:11am |
Wow, it's just like Jon Stewart said, Papa Bear really has become a beacon of sanity these days, at least when compared to the rest of Fox....
| 2 |
Political Atheist Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:16:22am |
If President Obama told her the time of day, she'd deny it in clear view of Big Ben
| 3 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:16:27am |
Can't watch it.
The R's are tying themselves in knots trying to make the Obama administration look bad. I guess they think it's payback time for all the criticism of Bush for Katrina; but their attempts are just as STUPID.
There are small businesses closing down; this is the perfect opportunity for the R's to be encouraging support for those businesses, to look like what they claim the party is all about, and they are failing completely.
Jindal is using the only governing skill he has (crisis management), but his efforts are going virtually unnoticed in the cacophony of stupid from other R's.
| 4 |
Virginia Plain Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:16:42am |
You know Fox has gone off the rails when Shrill O'reilly is now the sane one.
| 5 |
Charles Johnson Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:16:51am |
Meanwhile, the GOP base is unanimously declaring that Joe Barton was right.
The leaders of the GOP are trying to bail out the Crazy Ocean with a teaspoon.
| 6 |
Kragar Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:18:00am |
re: #5 Charles
Meanwhile, the GOP base is unanimously declaring that Joe Barton was right.
The leaders of the GOP are trying to bail out the Crazy Ocean with a teaspoon.
Glad I've cut my ties.
| 7 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:18:12am |
re: #5 Charles
Meanwhile, the GOP base is unanimously declaring that Joe Barton was right.
The leaders of the GOP are trying to bail out the Crazy Ocean with a teaspoon.
Great? You mean that the GOP leaders are going to try and start stealing our tea cups and tea kettles next so they can bail faster?
TEA! TEA EVERYWHERE! ITS ALL ABOUT THE TEA!
| 8 |
Virginia Plain Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:18:50am |
re: #3 reine.de.tout
There are small businesses closing down; this is the perfect opportunity for the R's to be encouraging support for those businesses, to look like what they claim the party is all about, and they are failing completely.
Do you think the Republicans care for small businesses? They only care for their big corporate contributors. Small business entrepreneurs are too small to interest them.
| 9 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:18:52am |
| 10 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:19:34am |
re: #5 Charles
Meanwhile, the GOP base is unanimously declaring that Joe Barton was right.
The leaders of the GOP are trying to bail out the Crazy Ocean with a teaspoon.
And meanwhile... the leak continues to leak... but that doesn't seem important enough... play politics and you keep your job... do what's necessary, you may not be so popular and their goes your money pit... most play the politics.
| 11 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:20:18am |
re: #5 Charles
Meanwhile, the GOP base is unanimously declaring that Joe Barton was right.
The leaders of the GOP are trying to bail out the Crazy Ocean with a teaspoon.
///Oh and might I add Magneto Barton was right!
| 12 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:21:13am |
re: #8 Virginia Plain
Do you think the Republicans care for small businesses? They only care for their big corporate contributors. Small business entrepreneurs are too small to interest them.
It appears so.
Catholic Charities in NO is trying to help these folks pay their mortgages and other important items. One would think the R's would get behind these sorts of efforts, instead of trying to make Obama look bad.
There's plenty to disagree with this administration about the handling of this oil spill, and I have several items myself. On the other hand, any president is faced with very difficult lose-lose choices, and that's what Obama has on his plate right now.
| 13 |
Four More Tears Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:21:17am |
| 14 |
Kragar Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:21:17am |
re: #10 Walter L. Newton
And meanwhile... the leak continues to leak... but that doesn't seem important enough... play politics and you keep your job... do what's necessary, you may not be so popular and their goes your money pit... most play the politics.
Who cares about concrete action when there is political manuevering to be done?
/
| 15 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:24:03am |
re: #10 Walter L. Newton
And meanwhile... the leak continues to leak... but that doesn't seem important enough... play politics and you keep your job... do what's necessary, you may not be so popular and their goes your money pit... most play the politics.
The leak is going to continue until they get that relief well finished, and that's just a fact, it can't be helped. What the R's should be doing is helping with mitigation of what's already happened, and that includes economic assistance and support to those affected as well as clean-up efforts.
| 16 |
avanti Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:24:41am |
re: #5 Charles
Meanwhile, the GOP base is unanimously declaring that Joe Barton was right.
The leaders of the GOP are trying to bail out the Crazy Ocean with a teaspoon.
That's because the base has been fed the mantra that unregulated, big business capitalism is the best policy. "Drill, baby drill" is a appealing sound bite if you don't consider the potential down side.
Now, all we hear about is the job losses from a hold on drilling, and very little about jobs losses "from" poorly regulated drilling, not to mention the decades of environmental damage.
| 17 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:25:52am |
re: #15 reine.de.tout
The leak is going to continue until they get that relief well finished, and that's just a fact, it can't be helped. What the R's should be doing is helping with mitigation of what's already happened, and that includes economic assistance and support to those affected as well as clean-up efforts.
I'm happy to see Landreau come out in opposition to the drilling moratorium
| 18 |
Virginia Plain Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:25:57am |
iPhone and iPod touch owners wait with bated breath...
| 19 |
Political Atheist Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:26:30am |
re: #9 reine.de.tout
ditto.
and again.
Just a right wing Ronin. No Republican Party for me.
Good Morning RDT!
| 20 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:27:09am |
re: #16 avanti
and very little about jobs losses "from" poorly regulated drilling
How so?
How many of this type of accident has
A) happened
and
B) resulted in job losses!?!?
| 21 |
MrSilverDragon Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:27:17am |
It's been said that power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. I think the GOP has been chanting that mantra to themselves subconsciously. Or maybe even consciously. I don't know.
Regardless, it's a mess.
| 22 |
Virginia Plain Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:27:57am |
Expect to see a mass migration similar to the mass migration of Midwesterners to California back in the 1930s. You know, the Okies. What are we going to call the Louisianans, Alabamans, and Floridians who migrate to other areas of the country?
| 23 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:29:06am |
re: #22 Virginia Plain
Expect to see a mass migration similar to the mass migration of Midwesterners to California back in the 1930s. You know, the Okies. What are we going to call the Louisianans, Alabamans, and Floridians who migrate to other areas of the country?
That will be me.
| 24 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:29:17am |
re: #22 Virginia Plain
Expect to see a mass migration similar to the mass migration of Midwesterners to California back in the 1930s. You know, the Okies. What are we going to call the Louisianans, Alabamans, and Floridians who migrate to other areas of the country?
Problem is,, where do you think they will "migrate" too?
There are no areas that are booming and looking for workers
| 25 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:29:26am |
re: #19 rightwingconspirator
and again.
Just a right wing Ronin. No Republican Party for me.Good Morning RDT!
Morning!
Check your e-mails.
| 26 |
The Shadow Do Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:29:41am |
re: #22 Virginia Plain
Expect to see a mass migration similar to the mass migration of Midwesterners to California back in the 1930s. You know, the Okies. What are we going to call the Louisianans, Alabamans, and Floridians who migrate to other areas of the country?
Coonasses, rednecks and retirees
| 27 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:30:17am |
| 28 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:30:27am |
re: #21 MrSilverDragon
It's been said that power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. I think the GOP has been chanting that mantra to themselves subconsciously. Or maybe even consciously. I don't know.
Regardless, it's a mess.
Unlike the altruistic left.
| 29 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:30:37am |
| 30 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:30:57am |
| 31 |
The Shadow Do Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:31:06am |
| 32 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:31:19am |
| 33 |
avanti Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:31:31am |
re: #17 sattv4u2
I'm happy to see Landreau come out in opposition to the drilling moratorium
So you contend we should continue drilling knowing the risks and not step back and pause until we feel safer with better regulations to prevent another disaster ?
If we had a major plane crash with a certain airframe, we might well ground the planes temporarily until we found the problem even though job losses might take place. You don't just plow forward when lives are involved.
| 34 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:32:09am |
| 35 |
Donna Ballard Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:32:14am |
re: #9 reine.de.tout
ditto.
Call me naive and an optimist but I can't help hoping the leadership of the GOP comes to their senses and pulls their heads out of their asses. If they don't so it soon, I'm afraid I'll have to jump ship too. :(
| 36 |
Sol Berdinowitz Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:32:24am |
(carried over from previous thread)
I received a note under my windshield the other day. All I had done was to park in a fire lane. What was the problem? Nothing was burning at the time.
And there I had it IN BLACK AND WHITE the government threatening me with criminal prosecution if I did not GIVE THEM MONEY.
A shakedown!!!
| 37 |
McSpiff Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:32:45am |
re: #33 avanti
So you contend we should continue drilling knowing the risks and not step back and pause until we feel safer with better regulations to prevent another disaster ?
If we had a major plane crash with a certain airframe, we might well ground the planes temporarily until we found the problem even though job losses might take place. You don't just plow forward when lives are involved.
Exactly, one airframe. We don't close the airspace because of one crash.
| 38 |
_remembertonyc Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:34:08am |
Good afternoon Lizards .... Have we discussed this story that Rahm Emanuel may be planning his exit from the Obama Administration?
[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]
| 39 |
HoosierHoops Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:34:43am |
re: #15 reine.de.tout
The leak is going to continue until they get that relief well finished, and that's just a fact, it can't be helped. What the R's should be doing is helping with mitigation of what's already happened, and that includes economic assistance and support to those affected as well as clean-up efforts.
Thanks for all your reporting from the gulf....At this point..No matter what pols say.. We are facing the beginnings of the greatest ecological disaster in History.. unfolding in real time..Hour by hour, Day by day. Week by Week..
I'm praying for a miracle.. But this may the worst summer of all time for America...I always look on the positive side...mmmm...This could be really bad.
Help the Gulf coast God..
| 40 |
Political Atheist Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:34:53am |
| 41 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:35:03am |
re: #16 avanti
That's because the base has been fed the mantra that unregulated, big business capitalism is the best policy. "Drill, baby drill" is a appealing sound bite if you don't consider the potential down side.
Now, all we hear about is the job losses from a hold on drilling, and very little about jobs losses "from" poorly regulated drilling, not to mention the decades of environmental damage.
People are not going to believe me when I say this: but the profit motive from drilling properly and safely is plenty big enough for companies to do it right.
Look at what BP is losing in this thing. No one wants that, and they all know this is the end result of not being careful.
BP had the worst safety record of all the companies, by a HUGE margin; this was brought out when Hayward was testifying the other day.
I'm not saying the oil biz should be unregulated; I am saying, however, that BP's sloppy work is costing everybody, including those who did things properly. What we need is effective regulation; which appears to have been missing here, along with BP's brains.
| 42 |
Donna Ballard Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:35:06am |
re: #38 _remembertonyc
Good afternoon Lizards ... Have we discussed this story that Rahm Emanuel may be planning his exit from the Obama Administration?
[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]
Ooo, I can dream can't I? Is he really, hum, hum, hum?
| 43 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:35:12am |
re: #33 avanti
So you contend we should continue drilling knowing the risks and not step back and pause until we feel safer with better regulations to prevent another disaster
A) the "regulations" that are already in place are sufficient IF they are followed and imposed
B) take the inspectors and place them on each rig that is currently idle and do their inspections,, TODAY
I asked you two questions in #20. The answers to those seems obvious to me that drilling should NOT be stopped for 6 months
| 44 |
avanti Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:36:11am |
re: #37 McSpiff
Exactly, one airframe. We don't close the airspace because of one crash.
No one is closing the airspace (drilling) We are putting a hold on deep water drilling after finding out we have a serious problem with safety.This was not a fluke accident, corners were cut to save time and money, and lives and billions were lost.
| 45 |
Targetpractice Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:36:45am |
Howdy, fellow lizards. What's the good word?
| 46 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:37:00am |
re: #44 avanti
No one is closing the airspace (drilling) We are putting a hold on deep water drilling after finding out we have a serious problem with safety.This was not a fluke accident, corners were cut to save time and money, and lives and billions were lost.
If it wasn't a "fluke accident', then why after all these years has there been but one?
| 47 |
garhighway Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:37:09am |
re: #20 sattv4u2
and very little about jobs losses "from" poorly regulated drilling
How so?
How many of this type of accident has
A) happened
and
B) resulted in job losses!?!?
When the consequences of a failure are catastrophic (as in the destruction of a major ecosystem and regional economy, plus a bunch of deaths), how many such failures do you need to see before you get serious about regulating the underlying activity to prevent the failure?
Wouldn't the right answer to that question be "zero"? Wouldn't the mere existence of the risk be enough to cause reasonable people to want to see the underlying activity appropriately regulated?
| 48 |
Donna Ballard Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:37:51am |
Need breakfast.
Hungry.
Tummy's growling.
BBS!
| 49 |
albusteve Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:37:54am |
re: #44 avanti
No one is closing the airspace (drilling) We are putting a hold on deep water drilling after finding out we have a serious problem with safety.This was not a fluke accident, corners were cut to save time and money, and lives and billions were lost.
a stupid, disasterous, feel good, political move...typical liberal thinking
| 51 |
avanti Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:38:29am |
re: #41 reine.de.tout
I'm not saying the oil biz should be unregulated; I am saying, however, that BP's sloppy work is costing everybody, including those who did things properly. What we need is effective regulation; which appears to have been missing here, along with BP's brains.
That's all I'm saying, take a break, fix the regulations and enforcement, than drill baby drill.
| 52 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:39:04am |
re: #44 avanti
No one is closing the airspace (drilling) We are putting a hold on deep water drilling after finding out we have a serious problem with safety.This was not a fluke accident, corners were cut to save time and money, and lives and billions were lost.
No, it was not a fluke accident, it was negligence, pure and simple, on the part of BP.
What's in place is punishing everyone for a period of time.
MMS has inspectors who can check out rig operations within 30 days, and allow those who are following the rules to continue. Why shut them all down for six months (which will end up being much longer, at least two years before the rigs that are leaving can begin to return).
| 53 |
_remembertonyc Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:39:07am |
re: #39 HoosierHoops
Thanks for all your reporting from the gulf...At this point..No matter what pols say.. We are facing the beginnings of the greatest ecological disaster in History.. unfolding in real time..Hour by hour, Day by day. Week by Week..
I'm praying for a miracle.. But this may the worst summer of all time for America...I always look on the positive side...mmm...This could be really bad.
Help the Gulf coast God..
This is such a heartbreaking story. Aside from BP, I don't blame anyone. But as the Gulf continues to be damaged, I can't help wondering why this can't be handled better. I don't know enough about oil drilling to answer any questions or even suggest solutions. But I can't help but feel that there have to be answers somewhere. Mother Earth is bleeding and we need to get her fixed :(
| 54 |
Targetpractice Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:39:36am |
re: #44 avanti
No one is closing the airspace (drilling) We are putting a hold on deep water drilling after finding out we have a serious problem with safety.This was not a fluke accident, corners were cut to save time and money, and lives and billions were lost.
It's the duration of the hold that is causing problems. I'm sure you're familiar with the concept of businesses needing to pay to keep equipment serviceable even when it's not performing its design purpose. Well, an oil rig is a multi-billion dollar piece of equipment that has to be kept serviceable when it's not drilling or pumping. And that's billions a day that don't look good on company ledgers at the end of the year. So before these six months are over, those rigs are going to have been pulled up and moved on to "friendlier" waters in places like Brazil, China, and the more civilized sections of Africa.
| 55 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:39:58am |
re: #51 avanti
That's all I'm saying, take a break, fix the regulations and enforcement, than drill baby drill.
So - punish the oil companies when all it would take is an order from Salazar to MMS to enforce regulations?
| 56 |
albusteve Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:40:06am |
re: #47 garhighway
When the consequences of a failure are catastrophic (as in the destruction of a major ecosystem and regional economy, plus a bunch of deaths), how many such failures do you need to see before you get serious about regulating the underlying activity to prevent the failure?
Wouldn't the right answer to that question be "zero"? Wouldn't the mere existence of the risk be enough to cause reasonable people to want to see the underlying activity appropriately regulated?
regulations need to be enforced...in this case they were not...there are many who are not surprised by this situation, and if they could see it coming, why couldn't the MMS?
| 57 |
McSpiff Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:40:18am |
re: #44 avanti
No one is closing the airspace (drilling) We are putting a hold on deep water drilling after finding out we have a serious problem with safety.This was not a fluke accident, corners were cut to save time and money, and lives and billions were lost.
Well, I'm sure that makes you feel good, but its not reality. Drilling has been done safely in the Gulf for years. It will be done. To say this was an anomaly is under statement. Inspect the rigs today, and get them drilling again. Why the arbitrary timeline of 6 months? Why not 2 years? Why not 6 weeks?
| 58 |
Kragar Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:40:18am |
re: #51 avanti
That's all I'm saying, take a break, fix the regulations and enforcement, than drill baby drill.
So you're saying maybe porn watching meth heads might not be the ideal regulatory officials?
/
| 59 |
garhighway Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:40:23am |
re: #52 reine.de.tout
No, it was not a fluke accident, it was negligence, pure and simple, on the part of BP.
What's in place is punishing everyone for a period of time.
MMS has inspectors who can check out rig operations within 30 days, and allow those who are following the rules to continue. Why shut them all down for six months (which will end up being much longer, at least two years before the rigs that are leaving can begin to return).
Getting the MMS to get serious about its job seems to be a part of the answer. Everything I've read about that bunch is that they didn't take their mission seriously.
| 60 |
MrSilverDragon Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:40:50am |
re: #28 Walter L. Newton
Unlike the altruistic left.
I'm sure the left has been chanting it too, but we were talking about the right.
| 61 |
albusteve Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:41:16am |
re: #55 reine.de.tout
So - punish the oil companies when all it would take is an order from Salazar to MMS to enforce regulations?
yup, that's it....clear thinking eh?
| 62 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:41:54am |
re: #57 McSpiff
Well, I'm sure that makes you feel good, but its not reality. Drilling has been done safely in the Gulf for years. It will be done. To say this was an anomaly is under statement. Inspect the rigs today, and get them drilling again. Why the arbitrary timeline of 6 months? Why not 2 years? Why not 6 weeks?
This is the first relief well needed in the gulf since the 1970's.
The last one was off the coast of Mexico.
| 63 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:42:34am |
re: #32 sattv4u2
Why,, did you lose a bet!?!?!
//
Hey what's wrong with Maryland do you know how cool our state sport is?
| 64 |
MrSilverDragon Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:42:51am |
re: #32 sattv4u2
Why,, did you lose a bet!?!?!
//
Bah! Only people that live in Maryland have the privilege of making fun of the state!
/ (nah, go right ahead. I know I bash the state constantly, but I still like living here.)
| 65 |
avanti Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:42:56am |
re: #49 albusteve
a stupid, disasterous, feel good, political move...typical liberal thinking
I guess if the the disaster in the gulf causes me to support a pause in the business as usual drilling scheme, I'll accept the feel good, liberal label. Truth is, I don't feel good about what happens in the gulf and why, and there is nothing political about it.
| 66 |
McSpiff Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:43:33am |
re: #65 avanti
I guess if the the disaster in the gulf causes me to support a pause in the business as usual drilling scheme, I'll accept the feel good, liberal label. Truth is, I don't feel good about what happens in the gulf and why, and there is nothing political about it.
Then why six months? Why ever allow drilling in the Gulf again?
| 67 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:44:03am |
re: #3 reine.de.tout
Can't watch it.
The R's are tying themselves in knots trying to make the Obama administration look bad. I guess they think it's payback time for all the criticism of Bush for Katrina; but their attempts are just as STUPID.There are small businesses closing down; this is the perfect opportunity for the R's to be encouraging support for those businesses, to look like what they claim the party is all about, and they are failing completely.
Jindal is using the only governing skill he has (crisis management), but his efforts are going virtually unnoticed in the cacophony of stupid from other R's.
I disagree. i think the leadership understands what's going on, but they've had some trouble getting their people into line. The GOP leadership needs to put out a non-crazy Republican line and insist that its Congresspeople hew to that line. The message needs to be clear and cohesive. Leaders lead, and the party leadership needs to do that and stop playing catchup.
| 68 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:44:42am |
re: #64 MrSilverDragon
Bah! Only people that live in Maryland have the privilege of making fun of the state!
/ (nah, go right ahead. I know I bash the state constantly, but I still like living here.)
I visit often. Have a cousin that resides in Upper Marlboro. We stop there on our yearly trek from home (Atlanta) to "home" (Boston, ,where I was born and raised)
| 69 |
HoosierHoops Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:44:54am |
re: #58 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
So you're saying maybe porn watching meth heads might not be the ideal regulatory officials?
/
You just gave Pat B. an idea..
God is punishing America because the MMS was watching P0rn..
//
| 70 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:45:04am |
re: #66 McSpiff
Then why six months? Why ever allow drilling in the Gulf again?
Because we need the oil.
| 71 |
McSpiff Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:45:55am |
re: #62 reine.de.tout
This is the first relief well needed in the gulf since the 1970's.
The last one was off the coast of Mexico.
Honestly, if regulation was put forward saying every new well must have a relief well pre-drilled... well, so be it. I think the cost of a blow out over several months is now only being understood, so if we can do things to minimize that in the future, I'd support it.
| 72 |
allegro Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:45:58am |
What this catastrophe, and the most recent mine tragedy, has illuminated is that our regulatory agencies, MMS in particular, are in the pockets of the industries that they are supposed to be regulating. Therefore, regulations that may be on the books are not being monitored. Fines and consequences, if any are imposed, are too minimal to be respected and just thought of as part of doing business.
I think a moratorium of some time frame is absolutely essential to root out the problems that are so apparent now. BP may be the worst offender with regards to safety, but how can we know that? The fact that they are the first to experience this type of blow-out doesn't mean that others aren't taking money-saving short-cuts to increase profits. I agree with Reine that most companies probably do take all the safeguards they can, or will afford, though we already know that few, if any, are taking the steps being demanded in other countries due to the cost. Taking a step back to discover the extent of the problems seems the only prudent action to take.
| 73 |
HoosierHoops Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:46:26am |
re: #64 MrSilverDragon
Bah! Only people that live in Maryland have the privilege of making fun of the state!
/ (nah, go right ahead. I know I bash the state constantly, but I still like living here.)
Same way I feel about California..We natives get to talk trash..The rest of you guys shut the heck up
*wink*
| 74 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:46:30am |
re: #69 HoosierHoops
You just gave Pat B. an idea..
God is punishing America because the MMS was watching P0rn..
//
That's more Pat Robertson. Pat Buchanan would say that the disaster occurred because affirmative action caused the MMS to be staffed by 'inferiors'.
| 75 |
Donna Ballard Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:46:33am |
re: #70 Dark_Falcon
Because we need the oil.
And the jobs, not to mention the taxes and the revenue!
| 76 |
avanti Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:46:48am |
re: #55 reine.de.tout
So - punish the oil companies when all it would take is an order from Salazar to MMS to enforce regulations?
Honestly, I feel more sympathy for the little guys in the gulf suffering from this, than the oil companies. BP has agreed to 100 million to help with lost wages to the oil workers, and I can live with the losses the oil companies will suffer for a few months.
| 77 |
McSpiff Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:47:39am |
re: #76 avanti
Honestly, I feel more sympathy for the little guys in the gulf suffering from this, than the oil companies. BP has agreed to 100 million to help with lost wages to the oil workers, and I can live with the losses the oil companies will suffer for a few months.
And what have the other companies done to deserve millions in loses?
| 78 |
garhighway Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:47:49am |
re: #66 McSpiff
Then why six months? Why ever allow drilling in the Gulf again?
Is six months arbitrary? Of course it is. My guess is that someone made a best guess about how long it would take to go through all the applications for the all the deep-water rigs with the level of scrutiny the MMS should have applied in the first place, and that's where they came out.
Hopefully:
1> They find that the applications aren't all boilerplate bullshit, full of dead guy's phone numbers and other material clearly copied from other applications, and
2> As they re-certify the rigs, they authorize the resumption of drilling.
| 79 |
albusteve Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:47:53am |
re: #73 HoosierHoops
Same way I feel about California..We natives get to talk trash..The rest of you guys shut the heck up
*wink*
people can say whatever they want about NM...it's all veiled envy
GO LOBOS!
| 80 |
avanti Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:48:52am |
re: #66 McSpiff
Then why six months? Why ever allow drilling in the Gulf again?
I see no problem with accepting some risk in deep water drilling, just not living with a unacceptable policy that has failed catastrophically.
| 81 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:49:04am |
re: #71 McSpiff
Honestly, if regulation was put forward saying every new well must have a relief well pre-drilled... well, so be it. I think the cost of a blow out over several months is now only being understood, so if we can do things to minimize that in the future, I'd support it.
McSpiff -
A relief well is nothing more than a second well - double the cost, and double the danger, actually, those relief wells are drilled and sealed the same way the main well is. It's nothing different from a regular well.
There are places in Canada that drill relief wells along with the regular well, because in those areas, drilling can only be accomplished during a 5 month period, and so they drill the relief wells concurrently with the regular well because if something goes wrong, there isn't time to drill the relief well during that period when drilling can happen. That's the only place (and the only circumstance) where drilling a relief well makes sense.
| 82 |
Targetpractice Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:49:06am |
re: #76 avanti
Honestly, I feel more sympathy for the little guys in the gulf suffering from this, than the oil companies. BP has agreed to 100 million to help with lost wages to the oil workers, and I can live with the losses the oil companies will suffer for a few months.
Lost wages to all oil workers or simply their own? BP doesn't own all 33 rigs that have been shut down and will likely be gone before this moratorium is over. So unless BP is planning to compensate all those men for the minimum 5-10 it takes to get those rigs replaced and running, then that's thousands of lost jobs and billions in lost tax revenues in the Gulf.
| 83 |
McSpiff Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:49:24am |
re: #78 garhighway
Then why not say that? I have no problem saying a rig can't drill until its given a top to bottom inspection. That makes sense to me. But why say 6 months? Because people want vengeance on an entire industry. And that's not right.
| 84 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:49:56am |
re: #82 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Lost wages to all oil workers or simply their own? BP doesn't own all 33 rigs that have been shut down and will likely be gone before this moratorium is over. So unless BP is planning to compensate all those men for the minimum 5-10 it takes to get those rigs replaced and running, then that's thousands of lost jobs and billions in lost tax revenues in the Gulf.
Avanti can "live" with that!
| 85 |
garhighway Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:50:13am |
re: #77 McSpiff
And what have the other companies done to deserve millions in loses?
I seem to recall seeing a piece on TV the other day saying that all of the major's spill response plans were clones of one another, with the same errors, same boilerplate, etc...
That might make someone suspect that additional scrutiny is needed across the board.
| 86 |
McSpiff Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:51:04am |
re: #81 reine.de.tout
McSpiff -
A relief well is nothing more than a second well - double the cost, and double the danger, actually, those relief wells are drilled and sealed the same way the main well is. It's nothing different from a regular well.There are places in Canada that drill relief wells along with the regular well, because in those areas, drilling can only be accomplished during a 5 month period, and so they drill the relief wells concurrently with the regular well because if something goes wrong, there isn't time to drill the relief well during that period when drilling can happen. That's the only place (and the only circumstance) where drilling a relief well makes sense.
I'm familiar with the Canadian regs for this, but my point is we're realizing in the Gulf there isn't the time to drill a relief well either. If this could have been dealt with in a month or a few weeks the environmental impact would have been greatly reduced.
| 87 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:51:59am |
re: #76 avanti
Honestly, I feel more sympathy for the little guys in the gulf suffering from this, than the oil companies. BP has agreed to 100 million to help with lost wages to the oil workers, and I can live with the losses the oil companies will suffer for a few months.
Avanti - it isn't for a few months.
It isn't like there are drilling rigs just sitting around waiting for work.
They are leaving, and entering into long-term contracts with companies in Brazil, Africa. They won't be back. And these are the best rigs around.
Shell apparently is holding one rig, paying $500,000 or so a DAY for the next six months, to hold the rig and it's employees so they can begin to drill again as soon as the moratorium is lifted. That's ONE rig. The rest are leaving, and will not be back. The six-month moratorium is likely to result in drilling being gone from the Gulf for several YEARS.
| 88 |
McSpiff Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:52:47am |
re: #85 garhighway
I seem to recall seeing a piece on TV the other day saying that all of the major's spill response plans were clones of one another, with the same errors, same boilerplate, etc...
That might make someone suspect that additional scrutiny is needed across the board.
And if new plans aren't ready in 6 months, then we go back to business as usual? How about we set actual goals, instead of feel good crap.
| 89 |
avanti Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:53:04am |
re: #77 McSpiff
And what have the other companies done to deserve millions in loses?
I think we see the divide between the left and right on this issue. Some are worried about the millions of undeserved losses by the oil companies, others worry about the undeserved losses of the regular Joe in the gulf.
| 90 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:53:58am |
re: #86 McSpiff
I'm familiar with the Canadian regs for this, but my point is we're realizing in the Gulf there isn't the time to drill a relief well either. If this could have been dealt with in a month or a few weeks the environmental impact would have been greatly reduced.
I think there are more problems with this well than have been publicized. I think BP screwed up even more than we know, and damaged the formation, which is why they can't stab the second BOP on top of the one that's there.
| 91 |
albusteve Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:53:59am |
one disaster on top of another....and people here think that BO has handled the economy fine as well....the disconnect, the rush to support failure is boggling
| 92 |
McSpiff Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:54:12am |
re: #89 avanti
I think we see the divide between the left and right on this issue. Some are worried about the millions of undeserved losses by the oil companies, others worry about the undeserved losses of the regular Joe in the gulf.
Because the companies have simply freeze-dried their employees for 6 months? This is just getting sad avanti...
| 93 |
avanti Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:54:24am |
re: #82 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Lost wages to all oil workers or simply their own? BP doesn't own all 33 rigs that have been shut down and will likely be gone before this moratorium is over. So unless BP is planning to compensate all those men for the minimum 5-10 it takes to get those rigs replaced and running, then that's thousands of lost jobs and billions in lost tax revenues in the Gulf.
Lost wages to all workers affected by the hold. BP is responsible for the hold, and wages lost by it.
| 94 |
rwdflynavy Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:54:32am |
[Link: www.theonion.com...]
| 95 |
Political Atheist Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:55:33am |
re: #90 reine.de.tout
You have an updated email address in your inbox. Sorry 'bout that!
| 96 |
McSpiff Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:55:37am |
re: #90 reine.de.tout
I think there are more problems with this well than have been publicized. I think BP screwed up even more than we know, and damaged the formation, which is why they can't stab the second BOP on top of the one that's there.
That's why I'm worried about this bottom kill... I suspect none of the concrete in this well was set right (does that make sense?)
| 97 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:55:45am |
re: #80 avanti
re: #87 reine.de.tout
Avanti - it isn't for a few months.
Not only isn't it a "few months", it's also not just a "few workers" (those that work on the rigs)
What about the supply companies that sell/ ship/ maintain the drilling equiment and all their sales staff, laborers and techs
What about the stores that sell workers clothing and food
What about the restaurants and bars that cater to all the above
What about the property owners who rent to those workers
| 98 |
albusteve Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:56:07am |
re: #93 avanti
Lost wages to all workers affected by the hold. BP is responsible for the hold, and wages lost by it.
BP does not have that kind of dough
| 99 |
avanti Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:56:25am |
re: #84 sattv4u2
Avanti can "live" with that!
Nope, that why I supported the shakedown. BP is responsible for the lost wages.
| 100 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:56:33am |
re: #89 avanti
I think we see the divide between the left and right on this issue. Some are worried about the millions of undeserved losses by the oil companies, others worry about the undeserved losses of the regular Joe in the gulf.
see 97 if you're so worried about the "regular Joe in the gulf"
| 101 |
Targetpractice Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:57:03am |
re: #93 avanti
Lost wages to all workers affected by the hold. BP is responsible for the hold, and wages lost by it.
For how long? The duration of the hold? Or until those rigs are replaced and those men can really go back to work? My guess is on the former, as in once the hold is released, and assuming the spill has been contained or stopped, BP will tell those workers "Sorry, but we agreed only until after the moratorium was over, not until your jobs came back. Don't let the door hit in the ass on the way out."
| 102 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:57:23am |
re: #99 avanti
Nope, that why I supported the shakedown. BP is responsible for the lost wages.
the 100 million for lost w ages had nothing to do with the 20 billion shakedown,, but nice try
| 103 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:57:27am |
re: #93 avanti
Lost wages to all workers affected by the hold. BP is responsible for the hold, and wages lost by it.
Oil and gas production directly and indirectly supported $12.7 billion in household earnings in the state, representing 15.4 percent of total Louisiana household earnings in 2005
There's no way BP can make it all up.
No way.
| 104 |
garhighway Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:57:31am |
re: #88 McSpiff
And if new plans aren't ready in 6 months, then we go back to business as usual? How about we set actual goals, instead of feel good crap.
If they aren't ready in 6 months, then the hold continues.
I read a quote in the NYT today from the co-chair of the panel (A former head of the EPA under Bush and member of the BOD of ConocoPhillips) that six months won't be enough time.
| 105 |
McSpiff Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:57:37am |
re: #99 avanti
Nope, that why I supported the shakedown. BP is responsible for the lost wages.
And I got a bridge to sell ya buddy
| 106 |
avanti Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:57:45am |
re: #98 albusteve
BP does not have that kind of dough
They are budgeting up to 50 billion, that should be plenty.
| 107 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:58:17am |
re: #97 sattv4u2
re: #87 reine.de.tout
Avanti - it isn't for a few months.
Not only isn't it a "few months", it's also not just a "few workers" (those that work on the rigs)
What about the supply companies that sell/ ship/ maintain the drilling equiment and all their sales staff, laborers and techs
What about the stores that sell workers clothing and food
What about the restaurants and bars that cater to all the above
What about the property owners who rent to those workers
Nothing to be done about it. Those jobs are gone now. The oil companies will go to where the governments will be more friendly to them. This is what globalization means: the jobs go where the corporate environment is favorable. If we want to work, we have to accept this and the abuses that sometimes follow.
| 108 |
albusteve Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:58:34am |
re: #104 garhighway
If they aren't ready in 6 months, then the hold continues.
I read a quote in the NYT today from the co-chair of the panel (A former head of the EPA under Bush and member of the BOD of ConocoPhillips) that six months won't be enough time.
bullshit....run the ops 24/7
| 109 |
McSpiff Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:59:12am |
re: #106 avanti
They are budgeting up to 50 billion, that should be plenty.
O, why didn't you just say you didn't have a clue before? Those jobs are literally never coming back now. They're gone. You expect BP to keep paying wages for the next 15 years?
| 110 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:59:12am |
re: #96 McSpiff
That's why I'm worried about this bottom kill... I suspect none of the concrete in this well was set right (does that make sense?)
Yep, makes sense.
The Roi thinks the bottom kill will work OK. What he's worried about is the lack of experience in drilling relief wells, since, well, it hasn't been needed before. and they're having to learn on the run.
| 111 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Jun 21, 2010 9:59:47am |
re: #104 garhighway
If they aren't ready in 6 months, then the hold continues.
I read a quote in the NYT today from the co-chair of the panel (A former head of the EPA under Bush and member of the BOD of ConocoPhillips) that six months won't be enough time.
I think the hold can't be maintained past that, regardless of risk. The loss of the few projects paying to stay would be a final blow. Better to risk it.
| 112 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Jun 21, 2010 10:00:15am |
re: #95 Rightwingconspirator
You have an updated email address in your inbox. Sorry 'bout that!
thanks
| 113 |
avanti Mon, Jun 21, 2010 10:00:30am |
re: #102 sattv4u2
the 100 million for lost w ages had nothing to do with the 20 billion shakedown,, but nice try
It was agreed to at the same WH meeting. If the laid off workers are paid, they still be supporting the gulf just as if they were working on the deep water drilling.
| 114 |
McSpiff Mon, Jun 21, 2010 10:00:47am |
re: #110 reine.de.tout
Yep, makes sense.
The Roi thinks the bottom kill will work OK. What he's worried about is the lack of experience in drilling relief wells, since, well, it hasn't been needed before. and they're having to learn on the run.
That's the rub with this entire thing eh? Did he say if both wells are needed, or are they sinking two just in case one isn't successful?
| 115 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Jun 21, 2010 10:01:56am |
re: #113 avanti
It was agreed to at the same WH meeting. If the laid off workers are paid, they still be supporting the gulf just as if they were working on the deep water drilling.
And what of the rest of the "regular Joes" I outlined in #97. If you're so concerned about them you would be DEMANDING that drilling re-start ASAP
| 116 |
Political Atheist Mon, Jun 21, 2010 10:02:11am |
Driver Dilemma-
Out of gas.
Two stations in front of you.
Valero and BP.
| 117 |
McSpiff Mon, Jun 21, 2010 10:02:48am |
re: #116 Rightwingconspirator
Driver Dilemma-
Out of gas.
Two stations in front of you.
Valero and BP.
Depending on where you are, they might both be selling BP gas, or neither. At least that's how it works in Canada.
| 118 |
avanti Mon, Jun 21, 2010 10:02:59am |
re: #109 McSpiff
O, why didn't you just say you didn't have a clue before? Those jobs are literally never coming back now. They're gone. You expect BP to keep paying wages for the next 15 years?
You are speculating out of your butt, no one knows how many jobs will be lost, nor how long they will take to come back, We do have a better handle on how many are being lost by the spill and how long that will take however.
| 119 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Jun 21, 2010 10:03:29am |
re: #114 McSpiff
That's the rub with this entire thing eh? Did he say if both wells are needed, or are they sinking two just in case one isn't successful?
He seems to think one well could do it.
| 120 |
allegro Mon, Jun 21, 2010 10:03:40am |
re: #115 sattv4u2
And what of the rest of the "regular Joes" I outlined in #97. If you're so concerned about them you would be DEMANDING that drilling re-start ASAP
Such chest-pounding authority. Go to the Gulf, my friend, and talk to the people there. Then make such statements.
| 121 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Jun 21, 2010 10:03:59am |
re: #116 Rightwingconspirator
Driver Dilemma-
Out of gas.
Two stations in front of you.
Valero and BP.
BP,, not even a second thought
(full disclosure ,,, I know an independent BP station owner, btw)
| 122 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Jun 21, 2010 10:04:05am |
re: #118 avanti
You are speculating out of your butt, no one knows how many jobs will be lost, nor how long they will take to come back, We do have a better handle on how many are being lost by the spill and how long that will take however.
If the moratorium goes on for 6 months, the jobs are gone essentially for good.
That's true.
| 123 |
McSpiff Mon, Jun 21, 2010 10:04:37am |
re: #118 avanti
You are speculating out of your butt, no one knows how many jobs will be lost, nor how long they will take to come back, We do have a better handle on how many are being lost by the spill and how long that will take however.
No, its a pretty easy calculation. Everyone involved in drilling. See?
re: #119 reine.de.tout
He seems to think one well could do it.
Well, that makes me feel a little more hopeful then.
| 124 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Jun 21, 2010 10:05:18am |
re: #120 allegro
Such chest-pounding authority. Go to the Gulf, my friend, and talk to the people there. Then make such statements.
I own land there (Gulf Shores Alabama). I've talked to friends and neighbors there. Almost to a man, they want the rigs re-started ASAP
| 125 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Jun 21, 2010 10:05:34am |
re: #120 allegro
Such chest-pounding authority. Go to the Gulf, my friend, and talk to the people there. Then make such statements.
BTW ,, ask Reine the same
| 126 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Jun 21, 2010 10:05:36am |
re: #120 allegro
Such chest-pounding authority. Go to the Gulf, my friend, and talk to the people there. Then make such statements.
The people here are desperate for the drilling to continue!
They know this spill is so uncommon, and due to BP's negligence, they aren't worried about a similar situation!
But hey, they're just little "small" people (our local talk show folks are having much fun with that btw)
| 128 |
avanti Mon, Jun 21, 2010 10:07:03am |
re: #115 sattv4u2
And what of the rest of the "regular Joes" I outlined in #97. If you're so concerned about them you would be DEMANDING that drilling re-start ASAP
OK, time for me to take a break, we are miles apart from your drill baby drill mantra and my concerns about safety. If the right feels that business as usual, deep water drilling should continue at whatever risk, I'll leave it to the voters to decide the correct policy. I'm out of here for a bit.
| 129 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Jun 21, 2010 10:07:20am |
And on that note, a full list of "Honey-Do's" awaits
| 130 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Jun 21, 2010 10:07:56am |
re: #128 avanti
OK, time for me to take a break, we are miles apart from your drill baby drill mantra and my concerns about safety. If the right feels that business as usual, deep water drilling should continue at whatever risk, I'll leave it to the voters to decide the correct policy. I'm out of here for a bit.
you didn't read and/ or understand one thing I posted, did you
| 131 |
Fozzie Bear Mon, Jun 21, 2010 10:08:30am |
re: #62 reine.de.tout
This is the first relief well needed in the gulf since the 1970's.
The last one was off the coast of Mexico.
This is the first relief well needed to stop an already leaking well. There should be relief wells drilled before extraction on every offshore well, until or unless tech can be developed to reliably stop gushers such as this.
It's a small expense relative to the cost of failure.
| 132 |
allegro Mon, Jun 21, 2010 10:09:34am |
re: #126 reine.de.tout
The people here are desperate for the drilling to continue!
They know this spill is so uncommon, and due to BP's negligence, they aren't worried about a similar situation!But hey, they're just little "small" people (our local talk show folks are having much fun with that btw)
Reine, I realize that we are both speaking from our individual perspectives, both of which have merit. I am deeply involved in mitigation efforts, having made now 4 trips to the LA coastal regions hardest hit, managing 3 leadership teams and working to secure rehabilitation efforts of those birds and mammals that have a hope of being saved. I have spent a lot of time with the fishermen and their families, those who are dependent on tourism, etc. They are not anxious to see more exploration until there is some assurance of safety measures.
| 133 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Jun 21, 2010 10:10:10am |
re: #131 Fozzie Bear
This is the first relief well needed to stop an already leaking well. There should be relief wells drilled before extraction on every offshore well, until or unless tech can be developed to reliably stop gushers such as this.
It's a small expense relative to the cost of failure.
1. It's a huge expense, a relief well is nothing more than a second well, and costs as much as the original well.
2. A relief well doubles the opportunity for a blow out, because it can blow out just the same as the main well.
| 134 |
Targetpractice Mon, Jun 21, 2010 10:11:06am |
re: #104 garhighway
If they aren't ready in 6 months, then the hold continues.
I read a quote in the NYT today from the co-chair of the panel (A former head of the EPA under Bush and member of the BOD of ConocoPhillips) that six months won't be enough time.
One of the estimates I heard the other day said the work necessary to determine which rigs are safe and what new regs/enforcement are needed could take up to 18 months. If the President hold to that, then you won't see new oil drilling off our coasts for the next decade, if not the next two.
| 135 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Jun 21, 2010 10:11:59am |
re: #132 allegro
Reine, I realize that we are both speaking from our individual perspectives, both of which have merit. I am deeply involved in mitigation efforts, having made now 4 trips to the LA coastal regions hardest hit, managing 3 leadership teams and working to secure rehabilitation efforts of those birds and mammals that have a hope of being saved. I have spent a lot of time with the fishermen and their families, those who are dependent on tourism, etc. They are not anxious to see more exploration until there is some assurance of safety measures.
ABsolutely.
And in 30 days, MMS inspectors can inspect every well out there, and their operations, and determine if safety measures are being met.
It does not take six months.
| 136 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Jun 21, 2010 10:12:55am |
re: #134 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
One of the estimates I heard the other day said the work necessary to determine which rigs are safe and what new regs/enforcement are needed could take up to 18 months. If the President hold to that, then you won't see new oil drilling off our coasts for the next decade, if not the next two.
18 months is necessary to develop new regs.
then another 8 - 10 years to retrofit/build new rigs to meet the new regs.
It's gone for good.
| 137 |
Fozzie Bear Mon, Jun 21, 2010 10:13:47am |
re: #133 reine.de.tout
1. It's a huge expense, a relief well is nothing more than a second well, and costs as much as the original well.
2. A relief well doubles the opportunity for a blow out, because it can blow out just the same as the main well.
1. The expense doesn't matter. Oil industry profits are already astronomical. It is FAR more expensive to have an unmitigated spill happen.
2. It also makes a rapid recovery from an accident possible.
| 138 |
allegro Mon, Jun 21, 2010 10:14:09am |
re: #135 reine.de.tout
ABsolutely.
And in 30 days, MMS inspectors can inspect every well out there, and their operations, and determine if safety measures are being met.It does not take six months.
If they can do it in that amount of time, that would be great.
| 139 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Jun 21, 2010 10:17:04am |
re: #137 Fozzie Bear
1. The expense doesn't matter. Oil industry profits are already astronomical. It is FAR more expensive to have an unmitigated spill happen.
2. It also makes a rapid recovery from an accident possible.
No incidents in the Gulf since the 1970s.
Sorry, relief well make no sense.
| 140 |
albusteve Mon, Jun 21, 2010 10:17:07am |
re: #137 Fozzie Bear
1. The expense doesn't matter. Oil industry profits are already astronomical. It is FAR more expensive to have an unmitigated spill happen.
2. It also makes a rapid recovery from an accident possible.
what % is their average profit?....6?
what is 'astronomical'?
| 141 |
Political Atheist Mon, Jun 21, 2010 10:19:12am |
re: #139 reine.de.tout
Not sure if it is true but Canada may require simultaneous relief wells at all their offshore rigs. Have you heard? True or not?
| 142 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Jun 21, 2010 10:19:14am |
re: #140 albusteve
what % is their average profit?...6?
what is 'astronomical'?
Steve -
This well that blew out was budgeted at $98 million, and they were over budget.
That's were the oil companies' "obscene profits" go. Exploration.
There is so much misinformation out there . . ..
| 143 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Jun 21, 2010 10:21:36am |
re: #141 rightwingconspirator
Not sure if it is true but Canada may require simultaneous relief wells at all their offshore rigs. Have you heard? True or not?
I know Canada requires relief wells, but the reason is that their drilling "window" is about 5 months out of the year. They drill relief wells simultaneously because IF something goes wrong, there is no time to drill the second well (relief well) before that drilling opportunity closes.
Drilling simultaneous "relief" wells is not a good answer for drilling in the Gulf, where drilling can occur year-round. It adds expense AND DANGER. A relief well is not some separate sort of magical well - it is simply a second well, with all the dangers that are at issue with the main well.
| 145 |
iossarian Mon, Jun 21, 2010 10:26:32am |
re: #142 reine.de.tout
Steve -
This well that blew out was budgeted at $98 million, and they were over budget.
That's were the oil companies' "obscene profits" go. Exploration.
There is so much misinformation out there . . ..
Well, to be fair, exploration is charged as an expense, before profit is calculated. From my perusal of their financial statements, BP's profit margin has been about 7% of sales over the past few years.
| 146 |
Fozzie Bear Mon, Jun 21, 2010 10:27:22am |
I fail to be comforted by your optimism regarding the safety of drilling, Reine.
Every oil company operating in North American waters has the same disaster recovery plan referencing dead experts. There is no backup plan, and never has been.
| 147 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jun 21, 2010 10:55:27am |
re: #22 Virginia Plain
Expect to see a mass migration similar to the mass migration of Midwesterners to California back in the 1930s. You know, the Okies. What are we going to call the Louisianans, Alabamans, and Floridians who migrate to other areas of the country?
Pelicans?
Once Praised, the Settlement to Help Sickened BP Oil Spill Workers Leaves Most With Nearly Nothing When a deadly explosion destroyed BP’s Deepwater Horizon drilling rig in the Gulf of Mexico, 134 million gallons of crude erupted into the sea over the next three months — and tens of thousands of ordinary people were hired ...
Cheechako
Alone in a Bathroom: The Fear and Uncertainty of a Post-Roe Medication Abortion Angel tucked two white pills into each side of her mouth, bracing herself as they began to dissolve. Her deepest fears and anxieties took over. Angel had wanted to talk to a doctor before she took the pills to ... Cheechako
They Were Desperate to Get Pregnant. Then IVF Gave Them Extra Embryos. One morning last spring, Ashley Harrolle put her 1-year-old daughter down for a nap and went to the kitchen. She pulled up her fertility clinic’s contact information. It was time to make the call. In a freezer several hundred ... CheechakoJoe Bacon ✅
March FavoritesYou've seen these all already but looking back, just because. These are my favorite shots of this last month. That 1937 Zeiss Sonnar is such a gloriously wonderful bit of glass. Thanks for looking.
William Lewis
Russia’s New Combat Robots Blown Up by Drones Near Avdiivka When we landed on the moon, I thought about how science fiction had become real. Now, the robot wars have begun. It's more poignant somehow on the ground than in the missile wars we have in the air as ...
Rightwingconspirator
Why Did More Than 1,000 People Die After Police Subdued Them With Force That Isn’t Meant to Kill? An investigation led by The Associated Press has found that, over a decade, more than 1,000 people died after police subdued them through physical holds, stun guns, body blows and other force not intended to be lethal. More: Why ... CheechakoKGxvi
The Pandemic Cost 7 Million Lives, but Talks to Prevent a Repeat Stall In late 2021, as the world reeled from the arrival of the highly contagious omicron variant of the coronavirus, representatives of almost 200 countries met - some online, some in-person in Geneva - hoping to forestall a future worldwide ... Cheechako
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ... Cheechako
