Why I’ll Never Vote for the GOP Again, Exhibit C for Creationism

Wingnuts • Views: 3,359

The San Angelo Standard-Times interviews Texas governor (and GOP candidate) Rick Perry about his views on education, and out comes the ugly anti-science fanaticism again. Perry thinks the Texas State Board of Education is doing a terrific job, and he’s “a firm believer” in teaching creationism in public schools.

Do you think the role of the State Board of Education should be revised given the recent controversy over curriculum and textbook selection?

The State Board of Education is an independently elected body that is charged with developing college- and career-ready curriculum standards for our state. As elected officials, they are accountable to their constituents for implementing curriculum standards that will ensure the best education possible for our state. I have repeatedly stated that the curriculum adopted by the SBOE should be rigorous, grade-level specific, and contain college- and career-ready standards, and I believe we have the right system in place to determine our school curriculum.

Explain where you stand on evolution-creationism being taught in school.

I am a firm believer in intelligent design as a matter of faith and intellect, and I believe it should be presented in schools alongside the theories of evolution. The State Board of Education has been charged with the task of adopting curriculum requirements for Texas public schools and recently adopted guidelines that call for the examination of all sides of a scientific theory, which will encourage critical thinking in our students, an essential learning skill.

These Dark Ages anti-science attitudes are not exclusive to Rick Perry; in fact, he’s part of an overwhelming majority within the Republican Party. Nearly every top GOP politician is either an outright creationist, or a sneaky “intelligent design” creationist, and if you help vote them into office they’re going to try to force this anachronistic nonsense on everyone’s children. And they’re going to call it “science.”

This is what the GOP looks like in 2010.

(Hat tip: freetoken.)

Jump to bottom

167 comments
1 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:24:07am

These folks are giving Republicans a bad name.

2 Kronocide  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:26:01am

It might be forever tarnished for the rest of my generation.

3 Interesting Times  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:26:22am

Somebody should tell these religious extremist douchebags that The Handmaid’s Tale was meant to be a warning, not a manual.

4 dragonfire1981  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:28:12am

Surely there’s some non creationist conservatives out there. I can’t believe that everyone in the Republican Party is a Christian.

5 elizajane  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:28:14am

Note the sneaky combination of “faith” and “intellect” in the same sentence, as if they are basically parallel instruments when setting a school curriculum.

6 alexknyc  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:28:43am

How can you honestly put “creationism” and “critical thinking” into the same answer?

7 jaunte  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:29:04am

re: #5 elizajane

I’d love to see Perry do an in-depth explanation of the ‘intellect’ part.

8 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:29:26am

re: #4 dragonfire1981
I am Republican who is Jewish.

9 elizajane  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:29:56am

re: #4 dragonfire1981

Surely there’s some non creationist conservatives out there. I can’t believe that everyone in the Republican Party is a Christian.

If they aren’t all Christian now, they will be after The Purge.

10 jamesfirecat  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:30:46am

re: #6 alexknyc

How can you honestly put “creationism” and “critical thinking” into the same answer?

Because the GOP has an irony defficent diet.

11 alexknyc  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:30:48am

re: #9 elizajane

If they aren’t all Christian now, they will be after The Purge.

I didn’t leave the Republican party, the Republican party left me.

12 Kronocide  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:31:05am

The State Board of Education has been charged with the task of adopting curriculum requirements for Texas public schools and recently adopted guidelines that call for the examination of all sides of a scientific theory, which will encourage critical thinking in our students, an essential learning skill.

That right there is seriously faulty logic. Intelligent design is not scientific theory nor is entertaining it critical thinking.

Intelligent design vs evolution is a valuable teaching tool in logic and rhetoric.

13 alexknyc  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:31:17am

re: #10 jamesfirecat

Because the GOP has an irony defficent diet.

There is no fun in creationism.

14 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:31:38am

People who cannot separate faith from science also seem to have trouble separating church and state

16 jaunte  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:34:39am
The State Board of Education has been charged with the task of adopting curriculum requirements for Texas public schools and recently adopted guidelines that call for the examination of all sides of a scientific theory, which will encourage critical thinking in our students, an essential learning skill.


Texas students will begin to critically examine all sides of the theory of gravity, which will likely lead to unprecedented breakthroughs in both space exploration and basketball.

17 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:35:10am

re: #16 jaunte

Texas students will begin to critically examine all sides of the theory of gravity, which will likely lead to unprecedented breakthroughs in both space exploration and basketball.

“Ma’am, I thunk I just proved that down iz up…”

18 What, me worry?  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:35:21am

re: #4 dragonfire1981

Surely there’s some non creationist conservatives out there. I can’t believe that everyone in the Republican Party is a Christian.

Well, Christians dominate all parties, I think. They are the majority all around.

There has always been religious influence on the GOP. Some say Christianity has always been the guiding force behind it, but while I think it was kinda on the sidelines, now it’s straight up and center.

19 Varek Raith  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:36:00am

E=MCHammer

20 Ericus58  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:36:25am

re: #4 dragonfire1981

Surely there’s some non creationist conservatives out there. I can’t believe that everyone in the Republican Party is a Christian.

There are.

21 CarleeCork  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:36:47am

It shore is tough bein’ a Texan nowadays!

22 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:36:48am

re: #19 Varek Raith

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Okay, that got a serious LOL right there hee he

23 Kronocide  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:37:11am

re: #15 Walter L. Newton

“I truly understand the concerns of some of these neighborhoods about bringing these kinds of institutions in,” he said of mosques and Islamic community centers like the one proposed for Murfreesboro. “You just can’t drop these into the middle of a very quiet neighborhood and expect the same type of quality of life.”

Wow.

24 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:37:42am

re: #21 CarleeCork

It shore is tough bein’ a Texan nowadays!

Must be REALLY WEIRD living in Austin surrounded by so much crazy

25 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:38:01am

re: #23 BigPapa

“I truly understand the concerns of some of these neighborhoods about bringing these kinds of institutions in,” he said of mosques and Islamic community centers like the one proposed for Murfreesboro. “You just can’t drop these into the middle of a very quiet neighborhood and expect the same type of quality of life.”

Wow.

Pandering.

26 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:38:09am

re: #18 marjoriemoon

Well, Christians dominate all parties, I think. They are the majority all around.

There has always been religious influence on the GOP. Some say Christianity has always been the guiding force behind it, but while I think it was kinda on the sidelines, now it’s straight up and center.


The conservative Christians felt rather betrayed by Reagan, who took them on board during his campaign but quickly jettisoned them as soon as Nancy’s astrologer told her it was propitious.

They started a policy of insinuating their people into positions of power throughout the party and the government, nominating Sarah Palin represented the culmination of their strategy, but it did not work this time around.

Should’ve consulted their horoscopes first…

27 CarleeCork  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:38:46am

re: #24 WindUpBird

Must be REALLY WEIRD living in Austin surrounded by so much crazy


I live in the DFW area. It’s REALLY WEIRD around here.

28 Ojoe  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:39:46am
29 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:40:11am

re: #23 BigPapa

“I truly understand the concerns of some of these neighborhoods about bringing these kinds of institutions in,” he said of mosques and Islamic community centers like the one proposed for Murfreesboro. “You just can’t drop these into the middle of a very quiet neighborhood and expect the same type of quality of life.”

Wow.

QUALITY OF LIFE, QUIET NEIGHBORHOOD

It’s like they’re talking about an outlaw biker bar

The new Klan, this is the rise of it, civil rights never got rid of these people, they just waited and taught their children their brand of hatred, they’re still part of the indelible fabric of America, and the GOP has to get all of them on their side to win elections

30 Kronocide  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:40:12am

re: #25 Walter L. Newton

The first comment is a good LOL;

Hey, I hope Wamp and Ramsey are right about Haslam. I’d love a tax-happy liberal in disguise over McWherter.

31 CarleeCork  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:40:22am

Pat Hardy is on the BOE here in Texas, and she was my high school History teacher. How bizarre is that? We were always fairly sure she was gay.

32 Varek Raith  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:40:52am

re: #28 Ojoe

Modern Whig Party

I like your tenacity.

33 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:41:06am

re: #27 CarleeCork

I live in the DFW area. It’s REALLY WEIRD around here.

hahaha :D

You folks in Dallas do seem to produce some killer postpunk: [Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

34 CarleeCork  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:42:20am

re: #33 WindUpBird

hahaha :D

You folks in Dallas do seem to produce some killer postpunk: [Link: en.wikipedia.org…]


Don’t leave out The Toadies! My daughter actually took me to see them in Deep Ellum.

35 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:43:35am

re: #18 marjoriemoon

Well, Christians dominate all parties, I think. They are the majority all around.

There has always been religious influence on the GOP. Some say Christianity has always been the guiding force behind it, but while I think it was kinda on the sidelines, now it’s straight up and center.

well, there’s actual Christianity, and then there’s exclusionary dominionism, which is what’s now rising in the GOP. Not so much Christianity at all as a paranoid and vicious world view that hijacks Christianity, walks right over Jesus and everything Jesus taught, steals the label, and slaps it on rhetoric not out of place at Stormfront

36 What, me worry?  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:43:57am

re: #26 ralphieboy

The conservative Christians felt rather betrayed by Reagan, who took them on board during his campaign but quickly jettisoned them as soon as Nancy’s astrologer told her it was propitious.

They started a policy of insinuating their people into positions of power throughout the party and the government, nominating Sarah Palin represented the culmination of their strategy, but it did not work this time around.

Should’ve consulted their horoscopes first…

hehe What’s a shame is that those Christians who believe in separation of church and state are being hijacked by those who don’t. I don’t know how they can change that.

37 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:43:58am

re: #34 CarleeCork

Don’t leave out The Toadies! My daughter actually took me to see them in Deep Ellum.

Toadies are great! I like me some Toadies :D

38 Nimed  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:43:59am
Nearly every top GOP politician is either an outright creationist, or a sneaky “intelligent design” creationist, and if you help vote them into office they’re going to try to force this anachronistic nonsense on everyone’s children. And they’re going to call it “science.”


re: #4 dragonfire1981

Surely there’s some non creationist conservatives out there. I can’t believe that everyone in the Republican Party is a Christian.

“Nearly every top GOP politician” may be a bit of an overstatement, but there are still way too much. Remember this?

39 CarleeCork  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:44:58am

re: #35 WindUpBird

well, there’s actual Christianity, and then there’s exclusionary dominionism, which is what’s now rising in the GOP. Not so much Christianity at all as a paranoid and vicious world view that hijacks Christianity, walks right over Jesus and everything Jesus taught, steals the label, and slaps it on rhetoric not out of place at Stormfront


Doesn’t that go hand in hand with the new brand of Prosperity Gospel?

40 What, me worry?  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:45:08am

re: #35 WindUpBird

well, there’s actual Christianity, and then there’s exclusionary dominionism, which is what’s now rising in the GOP. Not so much Christianity at all as a paranoid and vicious world view that hijacks Christianity, walks right over Jesus and everything Jesus taught, steals the label, and slaps it on rhetoric not out of place at Stormfront

Or Islamic extremism.

41 ModeratelyRight  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:45:29am
This is what the GOP looks like in 2010.

You do realize that there are some fiscal Conservatives like myself; that want these religious nut jobs out of office, right?

42 CarleeCork  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:46:03am

re: #41 ModeratelyRight

You do realize that there are some fiscal Conservatives like myself; that want these religious nut jobs out of office, right?

Make it so.

43 darthstar  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:46:22am

re: #38 Nimed

“Nearly every top GOP politician” may be a bit of an overstatement, but there are still way too much. Remember this?


[Video]

I knew what clip that was before clicking. I think McCain only said he believed in evolution because he witnessed it first hand.

44 jaunte  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:46:33am

re: #29 WindUpBird

QUALITY OF LIFE, QUIET NEIGHBORHOOD

It’s like they’re talking about an outlaw biker bar

The new Klan, this is the rise of it, civil rights never got rid of these people, they just waited and taught their children their brand of hatred, they’re still part of the indelible fabric of America, and the GOP has to get all of them on their side to win elections


“I’d like to delete hip-hop and add country,” McLeroy said. Asked why, he said simply: “It’s a genre that doesn’t belong” in state standards. He never elaborated.


SBOE Tries to Delete Rap Music From History Books

45 Varek Raith  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:46:59am

re: #42 CarleeCork

Make it so.

Aye, aye Cap’n!

46 What, me worry?  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:47:09am

re: #41 ModeratelyRight

You do realize that there are some fiscal Conservatives like myself; that want these religious nut jobs out of office, right?

I was hopeful that McCain won his primary over Hayworth. We just have to see more of that in November and honestly, I think we will.

This bigotry shit doesn’t really play well in this country. At least, it has never before.

47 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:48:25am

re: #4 dragonfire1981

Surely there’s some non creationist conservatives out there. I can’t believe that everyone in the Republican Party is a Christian.

Find me an elected GOP member on the national stage (house and senate) who is NOT Christian. I can think of Eric Cantor, and that is it.

Wow, look at all those Jewish people in Senate and how Republican they are

48 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:48:32am

re: #40 marjoriemoon

Or Islamic extremism.

yup!

49 Ghost of Sionainn  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:48:40am

re: #41 ModeratelyRight

You do realize that there are some fiscal Conservatives like myself; that want these religious nut jobs out of office, right?

I do believe that. Unfortunately, the nutjobs seem to be coming out of the woodwork. What gets me is I have been accused of “attacking Christians” when I badmouth these extremist freaks who want to push their beliefs on the rest of us.

50 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:49:06am

Here’s a guy who has never had a private-sector job in his entire life, but successfully ran against Kay Bailey Hutchison on the message that she was a “Washington insider”. Meanwhile, he intends to be governor for life. And the people absolutely eat it up.

51 CarleeCork  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:49:11am

I long for a moderate party. I am quite liberal in some ways and moderate in others.

For the most part I want a government that does what it needs to do and stays out of people’s private lives.

Does that make sense?

52 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:49:15am

re: #44 jaunte

SBOE Tries to Delete Rap Music From History Books

it doesn’t belong, he says…

Why wouldn’t it belong? What’s different about it?

Thinking…thinking…

53 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:49:16am
54 bratwurst  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:49:35am

re: #32 Varek Raith

I like your tenacity.

There is a fine line between tenacity and OCD.

55 reine.de.tout  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:50:47am

re: #4 dragonfire1981

Surely there’s some non creationist conservatives out there. I can’t believe that everyone in the Republican Party is a Christian.

Yes, we exist.
But we’re not running for anything.

56 What, me worry?  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:51:16am

re: #47 WindUpBird

Find me an elected GOP member on the national stage (house and senate) who is NOT Christian. I can think of Eric Cantor, and that is it.

Wow, look at all those Jewish people in Senate and how Republican they are

Neck and neck with the Presbyterians. Woulda thunk it?

57 darthstar  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:51:20am

re: #55 reine.de.tout

Yes, we exist.
But we’re not running for anything.

except the hills… :)
/

58 alexknyc  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:51:21am

re: #46 marjoriemoon

I was hopeful that McCain won his primary over Hayworth. We just have to see more of that in November and honestly, I think we will.

This bigotry shit doesn’t really play well in this country. At least, it has never before.

That’s one reason I’m thinking the GOP wave this November won’t be as big as people think.

59 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:51:27am

re: #50 negativ

Here’s a guy who has never had a private-sector job in his entire life, but successfully ran against Kay Bailey Hutchison on the message that she was a “Washington insider”. Meanwhile, he intends to be governor for life. And the people absolutely eat it up.

The brain it hurts bad

60 reine.de.tout  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:51:38am

re: #51 CarleeCork

I long for a moderate party. I am quite liberal in some ways and moderate in others.

For the most part I want a government that does what it needs to do and stays out of people’s private lives.

Does that make sense?

Yes.
I want the same thing.
Where we might differ, though - is what is it government needs to do.

61 reine.de.tout  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:51:55am

re: #57 darthstar

except the hills… :)
/

No sarc tag needed on that one!
Spot on.

62 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:51:57am

re: #56 marjoriemoon

Neck and neck with the Presbyterians. Woulda thunk it?

I smell a pay per view wrestling event!

63 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:52:29am

re: #60 reine.de.tout

Yes.
I want the same thing.
Where we might differ, though - is what is it government needs to do.

By much of western Europe’s standards, I’m a conservative :-)

64 Ghost of Stinky Beaumont  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:52:30am

re: #38 Nimed

“Nearly every top GOP politician” may be a bit of an overstatement, but there are still way too much.

It’s really not an overstatement at all. I’ve written about this several times — the fact is that there are very few GOP politicians who aren’t creationists. And the few who aren’t are also the ones who are being driven out of the party as RINOs, or pandering furiously to the religious right in other ways.

65 allegro  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:53:08am

re: #41 ModeratelyRight

You do realize that there are some fiscal Conservatives like myself; that want these religious nut jobs out of office, right?

What does fiscal conservatism have to do with the Republican party?

66 What, me worry?  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:53:18am

re: #51 CarleeCork

I long for a moderate party. I am quite liberal in some ways and moderate in others.

For the most part I want a government that does what it needs to do and stays out of people’s private lives.

Does that make sense?

I think that’s what we all want. Except some of us believe that the government has a duty to support its communities. That’s where we argue most. What duties and how much.

67 reine.de.tout  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:53:39am

re: #64 Charles

It’s really not an overstatement at all. I’ve written about this several times — the fact is that there are very few GOP politicians who aren’t creationists. And the few who aren’t are also the ones who are being driven out of the party as RINOs, or pandering furiously to the religious right in other ways.

This is exactly what I’ve observed also, on a local level particularly (prolly because that’s what I pay more attention to).

68 Nimed  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:54:29am

re: #53 MikeySDCA

Dominionism

The parable of The Grand Inquisitor.

In the tale, Christ comes back to earth in Seville at the time of the Inquisition. He performs a number of miracles (echoing miracles from the Gospels). The people recognize him and adore him, but he is arrested by Inquisition leaders and sentenced to be burnt to death the next day. The Grand Inquisitor visits him in his cell to tell him that the Church no longer needs him. The main portion of the text is the Inquisitor explaining to Jesus why his return would interfere with the mission of the church.

69 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:54:52am

re: #65 allegro

What does fiscal conservatism have to do with the Republican party?

I am afraid that their brand of “fiscal conservatism” has come to mean concentrating more wealth into fewer hands.

70 reine.de.tout  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:55:46am

re: #63 WindUpBird

By much of western Europe’s standards, I’m a conservative :-)

And so… what?
We should become western Europe?
And that sounds a lot nastier than I mean it to sound …

71 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:55:50am

re: #69 ralphieboy

I am afraid that their brand of “fiscal conservatism” has come to mean concentrating more wealth into fewer hands.

yeah I would like to hear the definition of fiscal conservatism, because it seems to mean wildly different things to different people

One could say that following Grover Norquist is “fiscal conservatism”

72 CarleeCork  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:56:13am

re: #66 marjoriemoon

I think that’s what we all want. Except some of us believe that the government has a duty to support its communities. That’s where we argue most. What duties and how much.


Safety is a duty of government. Clean air and water are both duties of the government. Safe food and safe working environments.

It’s been proven that private enterprise will not exercise responsibility. Their bottom line is truly their bottom line.

73 Kronocide  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:57:11am

re: #64 Charles

It’s really not an overstatement at all. I’ve written about this several times — the fact is that there are very few GOP politicians who aren’t creationists. And the few who aren’t are also the ones who are being driven out of the party as RINOs, or pandering furiously to the religious right in other ways.

I can’t think of one. There has to be one out there, right?

I don’t have as much a problem with a person believing in creationism but advocating it be taught in public schools is a huge issue no matter what you call it. I don’t know if I trust somebody will believe in ID but vote against teaching it in public school.

74 kirkspencer  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:58:10am

re: #41 ModeratelyRight

You do realize that there are some fiscal Conservatives like myself; that want these religious nut jobs out of office, right?

Through the late 1990s and early 2000s, I’d object to the way people would use code pink and the ELF as templates for all liberals. “Not all liberals, just the extremists,” I’d say. The consistent response is, “If you don’t want liberal to mean that, you need to get rid of the ones like that.”

When I see a response like yours, I simultaneously sympathize and experience a bit of schadenfreude.

75 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:58:10am

re: #33 WindUpBird

hahaha :D

You folks in Dallas do seem to produce some killer postpunk: [Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

The only good things to ever come out of Dallas:

The Church of the Subgenius

MC 900-Ft Jesus

76 Nimed  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:58:36am

re: #43 darthstar

I knew what clip that was before clicking. I think McCain only said he believed in evolution because he witnessed it first hand.

That was a pretty revealing moment. Though I was undecided between Obama and, mmm, Edwards in the primaries (talk about a dodged bullet), I always found the Republican debates more interesting because of stuff like this.

77 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:59:21am

re: #64 Charles

It’s really not an overstatement at all. I’ve written about this several times — the fact is that there are very few GOP politicians who aren’t creationists. And the few who aren’t are also the ones who are being driven out of the party as RINOs, or pandering furiously to the religious right in other ways.

B-b-but, there’s a Democrat running for Governor who’s doing the same thing…in Tennessee….of ALL PLACES!!111!!!!

78 What, me worry?  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:59:29am

re: #72 CarleeCork

Safety is a duty of government. Clean air and water are both duties of the government. Safe food and safe working environments.

It’s been proven that private enterprise will not exercise responsibility. Their bottom line is truly their bottom line.

Agreed. I’m also for programs which help the poor and elderly.

79 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:00:19am

re: #70 reine.de.tout

And so… what?
We should become western Europe?
And that sounds a lot nastier than I mean it to sound …

I’m putting our politics in world context. Not saying we should be exactly like Europe (though there’s stuff they do WAY better than we do) just saying that the axis we know here is skewed wildly from how hundreds of millions of people across the pond understand it.

I get called “far left” from time to time here, which is a riot. There’s no actual labor party in America, there’s no place for the “far left” in mainstream politics here.

80 Linden Arden  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:00:19am

Texas GOP textbook checklist:

take Jefferson out of history texts
take Darwin out of biology texts
take Keynes out of economics texts
take Freud out of psych texts

Education is good!

81 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:01:24am

re: #72 CarleeCork

Safety is a duty of government. Clean air and water are both duties of the government. Safe food and safe working environments.

It’s been proven that private enterprise will not exercise responsibility. Their bottom line is truly their bottom line.


There is a line of conservative ideology that the Free Market (TM) is some sort of divine natural state that should be free of government interference and that any interference is a sign of creeping socialism and the end of the American Dream (TM).

The market is a mechanism, it depends on a functioning infrasturcture and legal system. And even Adam Smith, the granddaddy of the Free Market (TM) said that markets are there to serve the people, not the other way around

82 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:02:12am

re: #72 CarleeCork

Safety is a duty of government. Clean air and water are both duties of the government. Safe food and safe working environments.

It’s been proven that private enterprise will not exercise responsibility. Their bottom line is truly their bottom line.

Private enterprise is machinery. Machinery is incredibly important! But machinery will not be compassionate, it will not administer justice. It’s just machinery.

The whole private enterprise at odds with government is just the dumbest false dichotomy I’ve ever heard of. Government creates the environment for private enterprise to thrive, imagine banks without the FDIC for example

83 Varek Raith  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:02:24am

re: #81 ralphieboy

There is a line of conservative ideology that the Free Market (TM) is some sort of divine natural state that should be free of government interference and that any interference is a sign of creeping socialism and the end of the American Dream (TM).

The market is a mechanism, it depends on a functioning infrasturcture and legal system. And even Adam Smith, the granddaddy of the Free Market (TM) said that markets are there to serve the people, not the other way around

Andrew Ryan disagrees.
/

84 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:03:21am

Uh… The Houston Texans seem to be stomping a brand new mud hole in the collective ass of the Indianapolis Colts.

85 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:03:50am

re: #83 Varek Raith

Andrew Ryan disagrees.
/


So would Ayn Rand

86 Ericus58  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:04:03am

re: #64 Charles

It’s really not an overstatement at all. I’ve written about this several times — the fact is that there are very few GOP politicians who aren’t creationists. And the few who aren’t are also the ones who are being driven out of the party as RINOs, or pandering furiously to the religious right in other ways.

In my quick search of “elected republicans who are creationist” on Bing, my first result was this:
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]
put another feather in your cap, Charles ;)

But in all seriousness, is there data out there that shows Senate and HoR Republican members who identify as Creationists?

87 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:05:01am

re: #75 negativ

You really gotta hear some Course of Empire. Like Killing Joke with two drummers and more snark. :-)

But I love me the 900 ft Jesus, I can’t remember the number of times I put “The City Sleeps” on mix casettes

88 alexknyc  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:05:01am

re: #80 Linden Arden

Texas GOP textbook checklist:

take Jefferson out of history texts
take Darwin out of biology texts
take Keynes out of economics texts
take Freud out of psych texts

Education is good!

And people wonder why so many incoming college freshmen need remedial classes.

89 Linden Arden  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:05:58am

re: #81 ralphieboy

There is a line of conservative ideology that the Free Market (TM) is some sort of divine natural state that should be free of government interference and that any interference is a sign of creeping socialism and the end of the American Dream (TM).

Market Fundamentalism

.. and practically every top capitalist rejects it.

Meanwhile - lackeys who inherited all their money (Steve Forbes) embrace it

90 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:06:06am

re: #84 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Uh… The Houston Texans seem to be stomping a brand new mud hole in the collective ass of the Indianapolis Colts.

hahahahaha gross

91 palomino  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:06:10am

For me, this is “Exhibit C” for why I feel more comfortable in my adopted state Cali than my home state of Texas. Wish it didn’t have to be that way.

There’s also the searing heat of TX, which also makes CA comfortable by comparison.

92 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:06:57am

re: #91 palomino

For me, this is “Exhibit C” for why I feel more comfortable in my adopted state Cali than my home state of Texas. Wish it didn’t have to be that way.

There’s also the searing heat of TX, which also makes CA comfortable by comparison.

I was in the nevada desert for a week, that was enough for me for a while, oh god days of 100 degree heat :(

93 CarleeCork  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:07:38am

re: #91 palomino

For me, this is “Exhibit C” for why I feel more comfortable in my adopted state Cali than my home state of Texas. Wish it didn’t have to be that way.

There’s also the searing heat of TX, which also makes CA comfortable by comparison.


If the hubby didn’t have such a good job here we’d be outa here.

94 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:08:48am

re: #93 CarleeCork

If the hubby didn’t have such a good job here we’d be outa here.

At least your real estate dollar goes pretty far :D

95 darthstar  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:09:36am

re: #76 Nimed

That was a pretty revealing moment. Though I was undecided between Obama and, mmm, Edwards in the primaries (talk about a dodged bullet), I always found the Republican debates more interesting because of stuff like this.

Well, the fact that evolution is a question for debate among Republicans is enough to make a person’s head spin.

96 Nimed  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:10:29am

re: #64 Charles

It’s really not an overstatement at all. I’ve written about this several times — the fact is that there are very few GOP politicians who aren’t creationists. And the few who aren’t are also the ones who are being driven out of the party as RINOs, or pandering furiously to the religious right in other ways.

My own impression is that there are more panderers than true believers (at least if the dreaded RINOs are included) among the currently elected GOP officials, tough this may very well change in November. Since we’re talking about personal beliefs, this judgment is difficult to support.

97 palomino  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:10:37am

re: #92 WindUpBird

I was in the nevada desert for a week, that was enough for me for a while, oh god days of 100 degree heat :(

I hear you. I had to drive through AZ a few weeks back. Daytime temps of 115. A couple of times I stopped at rest stops on the hiway, stepped out of the car, and just said “fuck it” and immediately got back in and kept driving.

98 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:11:06am

re: #95 darthstar

“Thermodynamics!”

Uh I’m not sure! Jury’s still out!

“Bernoulli’s Principle!”

Is that somma yer liberal yurpean thinkin’?

99 CarleeCork  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:11:24am

re: #78 marjoriemoon

Agreed. I’m also for programs which help the poor and elderly.


Do you know that a woman on welfare and food stamps will be penalized if she gets a grant to go to college? They call it income. I say if a woman on welfare goes to college and makes good grades we should provide daycare. Wouldn’t that make her a better citizen and perhaps stop the cycle of poverty?

100 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:11:35am

re: #97 palomino

I hear you. I had to drive through AZ a few weeks back. Daytime temps of 115. A couple of times I stopped at rest stops on the hiway, stepped out of the car, and just said “fuck it” and immediately got back in and kept driving.

GUHHH :(

Yeah, you get out and it’s like OH COOL I’M BEING ROASTED ALIVE

101 CarleeCork  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:12:20am

re: #100 WindUpBird

GUHHH :(

Yeah, you get out and it’s like OH COOL I’M BEING ROASTED ALIVE


Imagine the days without AC!

102 jaunte  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:12:28am

re: #94 WindUpBird

The cost of living differences actually have an effect on my business (in Houston); we have design clients from NYC, Cupertino, and Seattle.

103 palomino  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:12:52am

re: #94 WindUpBird

At least your real estate dollar goes pretty far :D

True, it’s amazing how little you can get for a million dollars here in LA, and the housing market still hasn’t fully recovered.

In TX, even the poor can afford houses. In parts of CA, even the middle class can’t afford houses. Then again, to get the benefit you have to live in TX.

104 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:14:31am

re: #99 CarleeCork

Do you know that a woman on welfare and food stamps will be penalized if she gets a grant to go to college? They call it income. I say if a woman on welfare goes to college and makes good grades we should provide daycare. Wouldn’t that make her a better citizen and perhaps stop the cycle of poverty?

Things that make America strong, class mobility, creating a strong middle class, encouraging small business growth and innovation (and I mean SMALL, smaller more agile self-started business is the future of the middle class of america) , encouraging strides in education, people-centered policy, policy that takes into account the struggles of individuals and their desire tor each their full potential

these are the things that make me interested in politics

and these are the reasons I tend to vote Democrat, because they make better noises on these issues than Republicans do

105 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:15:14am

re: #101 CarleeCork

Imagine the days without AC!

I had a 1978 toyota corolla waay back many years ago and the year I bought it we had some almost-100 degree days in Seattle, I wanted to DIE ON THE ROAD

106 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:16:17am

re: #103 palomino

True, it’s amazing how little you can get for a million dollars here in LA, and the housing market still hasn’t fully recovered.

In TX, even the poor can afford houses. In parts of CA, even the middle class can’t afford houses. Then again, to get the benefit you have to live in TX.

Portland has affordable housing, but it can be sort of in weird ways, these little ultra narrow small lot houses are the price of condos, but it feels like you’re living in an RV

107 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:16:47am

re: #102 jaunte

The cost of living differences actually have an effect on my business (in Houston); we have design clients from NYC, Cupertino, and Seattle.

Seattle’s where I grew up, THAT place is getting expennnsive :P

108 harlequinade  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:16:48am

I want to ask a serious question.

This is, I’d say, a center right board - and the republicans probably out number the democrats. So - every day we see the bad crazy, and the dog whistling etc.

Who/how are you going to vote in the mid-terms? Because, if the republicans _do_ romp to victory in November, it’s those people who will say “See, we were right” and ramp this up all the way to 2012.

And _THEN_ who will you vote for?

109 palomino  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:17:00am

re: #101 CarleeCork

Imagine the days without AC!

My parents moved to Houston in the early 1950s and lived for a couple of years without AC. They said that on some miserable days they would just sit in the bathtub all day and drink beer.

110 TREKrider  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:17:44am

Not sure if this is a reason not to vote Republican ever again. In Texas, you probably have to hold this opinion to be elected - Republican or Democrat.

111 CarleeCork  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:18:24am

re: #109 palomino

My parents moved to Houston in the early 1950s and lived for a couple of years without AC. They said that on some miserable days they would just sit in the bathtub all day and drink beer.


We had evaporative water coolers. They were better than nothing.

112 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:18:35am

re: #108 harlequinade

I want to ask a serious question.

This is, I’d say, a center right board - and the republicans probably out number the democrats. So - every day we see the bad crazy, and the dog whistling etc.

Who/how are you going to vote in the mid-terms? Because, if the republicans _do_ romp to victory in November, it’s those people who will say “See, we were right” and ramp this up all the way to 2012.

And _THEN_ who will you vote for?

Well, I’m left of center so not surprisingly, Democrats, and democrats. I voted for a Republican senator from oregon (Smith), he lost, the Democrat is doing a good job, so I’m voting for him.

113 palomino  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:19:19am

re: #99 CarleeCork

Do you know that a woman on welfare and food stamps will be penalized if she gets a grant to go to college? They call it income. I say if a woman on welfare goes to college and makes good grades we should provide daycare. Wouldn’t that make her a better citizen and perhaps stop the cycle of poverty?

Sadly the poor have been demonized as lazy leeches who “suck off the govt teat.”

It’s one of the angry confused middle classes’ memes that gets a lot of traction with the fox news/limbaugh crowd.

114 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:19:35am

re: #109 palomino

My parents moved to Houston in the early 1950s and lived for a couple of years without AC. They said that on some miserable days they would just sit in the bathtub all day and drink beer.

We get a few days like that in Portland every year, enough to make you want to die, not enough to make you pull the trigger on an AC unit that only gets a week’s worth of use a year

115 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:19:46am

re: #113 palomino

Sadly the poor have been demonized as lazy leeches who “suck off the govt teat.”

It’s one of the angry confused middle classes’ memes that gets a lot of traction with the fox news/limbaugh crowd.

Thanks, Ronald Reagan!

117 palomino  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:23:03am

re: #114 WindUpBird

We get a few days like that in Portland every year, enough to make you want to die, not enough to make you pull the trigger on an AC unit that only gets a week’s worth of use a year

Ahh, to live in a place where you’d never need AC Very few of those, but mostly along the Pacific Coast, and maybe upper New England! There’s also Alaska, but fuck that!

118 CarleeCork  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:23:19am

re: #104 WindUpBird

Things that make America strong, class mobility, creating a strong middle class, encouraging small business growth and innovation (and I mean SMALL, smaller more agile self-started business is the future of the middle class of america) , encouraging strides in education, people-centered policy, policy that takes into account the struggles of individuals and their desire tor each their full potential

these are the things that make me interested in politics

and these are the reasons I tend to vote Democrat, because they make better noises on these issues than Republicans do


I used to vote for the person I thought would do the better job. I have been voting a straight Dem ticket for quite a while. I’m not happy with many politicians anymore. They all seem to be in someone’s pocket. We desperately need campaign finance reform. Corporate America seems to have control of our government and neither party will make a difference until we change that.

119 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:25:14am

re: #110 TREKrider

Not sure if this is a reason not to vote Republican ever again. In Texas, you probably have to hold this opinion to be elected - Republican or Democrat.

Actually, it turns out you’re completely wrong.

This took a whole 40 secodns to google:

[Link: www.teachthemscience.org…]

Mary Helen Berlanga (Corpus Christi) is a Democrat and has been a member of the SBOE since 1982. She may run for re-election in 2012.

* Bio and Contact Information at SBOE site.
* She voted against reintroducing the “strengths and weaknesses” in the 2009 standards.
* “They (the religious conservatives on the board) will want to get rid of the theory of evolution (in science textbooks), or at least dilute it as much as possible. They want to put in intelligent design, or creationism.”(6)
* She co-nominated David Hillis, biology professor and director of the Center of Computational Biology and Bioinformatics at the University of Texas, to the state science curriculum expert review panel in October, 2008.(7)


Mavis B. Knight (Dallas) is a Democrat and has been a member of the SBOE since 2003. She may run for re-election in 2012.

* Bio and Contact Information at SBOE site.
* She voted against reintroducing the “strengths and weaknesses” in the 2009 standards.
* Ms. Knight is expecting a push from intelligent design backers to include it in the curriculum next year, but she is firmly against such a move even though many Texans with creationist views may favor it.(41)
* “My position is if you’re strong in your faith, then even if what is taught in a [science] class is contrary to your religious beliefs, it will not weaken your faith.”(42)
* She co-nominated Gerald Skoog, professor and dean emeritus of the College of Education at Texas Tech University and co-director of the Center for Integration of Science Education and Research, to the state science curriculum expert review panel in October, 2008.(43)


The days of false equivalency to cover for Republicans here are ending dude. Sorry :-)

120 harlequinade  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:26:40am

re: #112 WindUpBird

To a degree, I can see the democrats voting democrat. I’m interested, actually, in if there’s any “base” democrats here - who are being told that Obama has deserted them. Are they voting in November?

121 Summer Seale  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:27:32am

re: #68 Nimed

The parable of The Grand Inquisitor.

It’s like the alternate ending of Jesus’s life in “The Last Temptation of Christ” when he meets one of his preachers and he is told that he’s nothing because the idea of the Church is so much bigger than he is. It’s a very powerful scene, and an amazing movie. One of my all time favorites.

122 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:28:21am

re: #118 CarleeCork

I used to vote for the person I thought would do the better job. I have been voting a straight Dem ticket for quite a while. I’m not happy with many politicians anymore. They all seem to be in someone’s pocket. We desperately need campaign finance reform. Corporate America seems to have control of our government and neither party will make a difference until we change that.

I vote for people who are fighting for my interests, which are quite broad. And currently that’s almost always Democrats.

I really REALLY liked Allen Alley, Republican for Governor in Oregon, he’s one of the smartest people in the state straight up. Has accomplished so much. I would have voted for him in a HEARTBEAT.

He lost his primary…

to a fucking basketball player.

So fuck the Republicans, they just shot themselves in the balls in oregon.

123 Linden Arden  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:28:50am

I like Scott Brown and the two Maine ladies in the Senate GOP.

The rest pretty much fit the caricature of close-minded conservatives.

124 Summer Seale  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:30:00am

This is the scene I was talking about. I’m sure many of you have seen it.

125 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:30:24am

re: #120 harlequinade

To a degree, I can see the democrats voting democrat. I’m interested, actually, in if there’s any “base” democrats here - who are being told that Obama has deserted them. Are they voting in November?

I have heard that from people, and I disagree wildly. He sure didn’t desert me! I voted for Obama fully expecting a moderate democrat. And I got one! I’m not one of these starry-eyed Kos Kids or FiredogLake fanatics. I never expected a magical halcyon liberal future from Obama. I expected a pragmatist, and I got one.

126 CarleeCork  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:31:09am

re: #120 harlequinade

To a degree, I can see the democrats voting democrat. I’m interested, actually, in if there’s any “base” democrats here - who are being told that Obama has deserted them. Are they voting in November?


Obama has done pretty much what he said he’d do. I don’t think the stimulus was large enough and I think he let’s the MSM control him a bit too much, but I’ll still vote for him. So yes, I’ll be voting and encouraging others to vote.

I supported Bush when he wanted to go after bin laden in Afghanistan but thought he rushed to war in Iraq. He blew it.

ALICE PAUL IS MY HERO.

127 Ghost of Stinky Beaumont  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:31:28am

re: #110 TREKrider

Not sure if this is a reason not to vote Republican ever again.

It’s just one reason out of many.

128 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:32:19am

re: #126 CarleeCork

Obama has done pretty much what he said he’d do. I don’t think the stimulus was large enough and I think he let’s the MSM control him a bit too much, but I’ll still vote for him. So yes, I’ll be voting and encouraging others to vote.

I supported Bush when he wanted to go after bin laden in Afghanistan but thought he rushed to war in Iraq. He blew it.

ALICE PAUL IS MY HERO.

There’s a lot more Obama could have done if the Rs weren’t rampantly obstructing everything in sight

Politics! Whoo!

129 CarleeCork  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:33:19am

re: #122 WindUpBird
You know what’s funny? I would have voted for McCain when he ran against Bush. But after what the Bush campaign did to McCain’s family I hated seeing McCain hug Bush. He should have punched him in the nose!

130 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:33:45am

re: #129 CarleeCork

You know what’s funny? I would have voted for McCain when he ran against Bush. But after what the Bush campaign did to McCain’s family I hated seeing McCain hug Bush. He should have punched him in the nose!

yeah it’s so messed up :(

131 harlequinade  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:34:45am

:) As a disclosure on this - I’m a european socialist. A proper one, though. I don’t mind paying more taxes if I earn more to make sure that services run.

But I can’t see how people are going to vote republican seeing what’s going on. WHO is going to romp them to victory?

132 harlequinade  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:35:24am

re: #128 WindUpBird

There’s a lot more Obama could have done if the Rs weren’t rampantly obstructing everything in sight

Politics! Whoo!

This.

So this.

133 CarleeCork  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:36:25am

re: #131 harlequinade

:) As a disclosure on this - I’m a european socialist. A proper one, though. I don’t mind paying more taxes if I earn more to make sure that services run.

But I can’t see how people are going to vote republican seeing what’s going on. WHO is going to romp them to victory?


Bush won a second term didn’t he? Americans are easily fooled.

134 TREKrider  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:37:55am

re: #119 WindUpBird

I sit corrected (to an extent). I made the false assumption (lazily) that a majority of Texans in the area thought as this Republican thought, which led to my assumption that ANY candidate needed this opinion to win. I am GLAD to be wrong.

135 harlequinade  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:39:18am

re: #133 CarleeCork

I moved to the US just after he won his second term. That surprised me too. Maybe you’re right.

136 TREKrider  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:39:26am

re: #127 Charles

It’s just one reason out of many.

I have some catching up to do, though I am running out of reasons to vote Republican.

137 harlequinade  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:40:51am

re: #136 TREKrider

Ok - TREK. Why do you vote Republican?

138 Ojoe  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:41:54am

re: #32 Varek Raith

Thank you.

139 harlequinade  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:43:35am

It looks like I may have missed this thread. I might try again in tonight’s Open.

140 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:44:16am

re: #134 TREKrider

I sit corrected (to an extent). I made the false assumption (lazily) that a majority of Texans in the area thought as this Republican thought, which led to my assumption that ANY candidate needed this opinion to win. I am GLAD to be wrong.

ok cheers

There’s a great deal of creationism crazy in Texas, but I think a lot of it is being fed to people, it’s “artifical” politics if that makes any sense, it’s contrived and being pushed down from the politicians to the people

141 TREKrider  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:46:14am

re: #137 harlequinade

Ok - TREK. Why do you vote Republican?

It was once because of a belief in small Gov’t and a belief that libertarians couldn’t win so I would vote for a candidate that could possibly win. BUT - Bush Jr obliterated that (growing gov’t faster than most presidents).

I have accepted the inevitability of growing gov’t. I have a lot of thinking to do. Still a big fan of liberty. Hopeful for liberty.

142 harlequinade  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:49:52am

re: #141 TREKrider

What does “small government” mean? I hear this bandied about - but I’m not 100% sure I have it right.

143 TREKrider  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:50:17am

re: #140 WindUpBird

Hey WindUpBird - this dialog is helpful - here is where I was coming from — the below link (from LGF in February) talks about why I believe that any candidate for Governor (regardless of party) may have to hold this opinion on creationism. I am not saying it’s impossible for Dems or scientists to get on the Texas SBOE — we are talking about the Governor of Texas. This is the person who needs to win more votes than his opponents in a state like this…

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

144 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:52:29am

re: #82 WindUpBird

Private enterprise is machinery. Machinery is incredibly important! But machinery will not be compassionate, it will not administer justice. It’s just machinery.

The whole private enterprise at odds with government is just the dumbest false dichotomy I’ve ever heard of. Government creates the environment for private enterprise to thrive, imagine banks without the FDIC for example

Or mining companies without OSHA…

145 TREKrider  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 11:59:33am

re: #142 harlequinade

What does “small government” mean? I hear this bandied about - but I’m not 100% sure I have it right.

Small government to a creationist republican probably means lots of morality-purity-laws and ver little gov’t oversight in business.

I think a true definition (trying to be brief as possible) would be liberty (moral law only to protect people, not impose religious rules - true separation of church and state) and a belief in private sector in both charity and business. I mean charity in the sense of people giving to help each other (not counting on gov’t programs) and businesses allowed to thrive (not imposing double taxation, marriage penalties).

That’s a very poorly written and way too brief description. There is some anecdote about Davy Crocket and charity if you look it up. Something about politicians wanting to spend tax dollars to help a widow and Crocket supporting the idea of helping her but insisting it be out of our own charitable pockets, not from the tax collected revenue.

Admittedly, this is a rough outline. Didn’t write a paper on this yet. Also, these are different times than Davy Crockett. We don’t kill our food or build log cabins. We live together and die together and that might require different thinking. I am in process.

146 harlequinade  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 12:07:00pm

re: #145 TREKrider

That makes my socialist eye twitch :) I think i don’t have the faith that the less get looked after. The “bring me your poor huddled masses always makes me feel like there’s… a duty to help them, as opposed to a voluntary.

But - thanks for the explanation :)

147 webevintage  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 12:09:39pm

re: #120 harlequinade

To a degree, I can see the democrats voting democrat. I’m interested, actually, in if there’s any “base” democrats here - who are being told that Obama has deserted them. Are they voting in November?

I guess I would be a “base” Democrat except I do not listen to the firebaggers and do not feel that the President has “deserted” me.
The people who feel that way were not really paying attention during the election.
And there is no way in hell that I’m going to vote for Republicans in Nov. nor would I ever sit out an election.
Voting R means I would have to vote for Karl Rove’s toady Tim Griffin for the House and John Bozman for Senate.
Thanks but no thanks.

And I’m confused about the enthusiasm gap.
I’m enthusiastic about voting against Republicans.

148 TREKrider  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 12:12:14pm

re: #146 harlequinade

That makes my socialist eye twitch :) I think i don’t have the faith that the less get looked after. The “bring me your poor huddled masses always makes me feel like there’s… a duty to help them, as opposed to a voluntary.

But - thanks for the explanation :)

That’s difficult for me as well. History attests to it… the poor are trampled over and over. I just don’t have faith that any form of government can solve that problem.

149 John Q  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 12:12:23pm

The worst thing about Perry: allowing an innocent man (Cameron Todd Willingham) to be executed despite expert evidence that the testimony at his trial was junk science.

And then not even allowing after the fact examination of the case.

“(Cameron’s) 2004 execution gained renewed prominence this year after the newly formed Texas Forensic Science Commission, created by the Legislature to explore and fix forensic flaws, released a report that criticized the arson evidence. Two days before the panel was to review that report, Perry abruptly replaced three members, including the chairman, and the meeting was canceled.”

I guess only in Texas would a governor with that kind of record still be seriously in the running for re-election.

150 lostlakehiker  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 12:12:49pm

re: #108 harlequinade

I want to ask a serious question.

This is, I’d say, a center right board - and the republicans probably out number the democrats. So - every day we see the bad crazy, and the dog whistling etc.

Who/how are you going to vote in the mid-terms? Because, if the republicans _do_ romp to victory in November, it’s those people who will say “See, we were right” and ramp this up all the way to 2012.

And _THEN_ who will you vote for?

The question is not whether the Republicans will romp to victory, but whether the Democrats will romp to defeat.

When McCain ran in 2008, he really didn’t have a chance. Nothing he said mattered, and none of his options could have tipped the balance the other way. With the economy in the dumps and Bush as president, the party that had primary responsibility for the mess was doomed.

Now, the shoe is kind of on the other foot. Two years in, the Democrats have tried their try and it didn’t work, and the only thing they can think of is to suggest 2 trillion of some sort of spending, never mind on what, instead of a mere 1 trillion.

When Gray Davis was governor of CA, the final insult was that he couldn’t even arrange to keep CA supplied with electricity. His misgovernment had unwittingly set the rules in such a way that there were incentives for power failures, and no incentive for utilities to invest in the sober work of supplying the state with electricity for the future.

Couple that with “whole word” reading misinstruction, and the natural and inevitable dive in CA’s educational standing, and people were bound to cast about for somebody, anybody, ELSE.

The Republicans are in such a muddle that they have nothing much to offer, that the public wants, except a breather from the other guys. And that’s what this upcoming election is likely to be about. Republican gains in this context will be self-limiting, because the moment the R’s have some of the levers of federal power in their hands, they become responsible for the result.

The result won’t be anything to write home about, so they won’t be able to score any further gains merely on the basis of not being dems.

151 CarleeCork  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 12:16:29pm

re: #150 lostlakehiker
In other words, Americans are fairly stupid?

Or is it fat and entertained?

152 harlequinade  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 12:17:29pm

re: #150 lostlakehiker

I see the reasoning here. But… I can’t see how someone goes in and votes for bad crazy, or for - How, after the blatant thing that Newt said yesterday, does someone walking into the voting booth and say “That’s the kind of thing I want the man representing me to say”?

I think that’s where my question comes from

153 pharmmajor  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 12:35:38pm

This is why I’m so hoping the Libertarians win in 2010 over the freaks on the right.

154 ClaudeMonet  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 12:35:54pm

re: #21 CarleeCork

It shore is tough bein’ a Texan nowadays!

As long as you stay in Texas, the severe deficiencies in native intelligence and education don’t hurt a person much. However, as soon as you leave Texas, even for such havens of intellect as Oklahoma, Arkansas, Louisiana, or Tamaulipas, you’re in deep sh**.

155 harlequinade  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 12:40:15pm

re: #153 pharmmajor

Is that a vote splitter?

Or do the Libertarian, Whig, Tea Party movements stir up the voting pot?

156 ClaudeMonet  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 12:50:24pm

re: #108 harlequinade

I want to ask a serious question.

This is, I’d say, a center right board - and the republicans probably out number the democrats. So - every day we see the bad crazy, and the dog whistling etc.

Who/how are you going to vote in the mid-terms? Because, if the republicans _do_ romp to victory in November, it’s those people who will say “See, we were right” and ramp this up all the way to 2012.

And _THEN_ who will you vote for?

Voting Republican for the Senate (Portman—the last person to do a good job as a local Representative around here, hasn’t pandered to the Rabid Right), Democrat for Governor (Strickland—hasn’t been a bust), and neither major party candidate for the House (incumbent is a party-line hack, opposed by the guy he unseated in ‘08, also a party hack, both break with their parties upon command of the Catholic Church ONLY).

Then, I’ll hope it winds up as in Jimmy Buffett’s “Miss You So Badly”—

When the dust had finally settled
And the air had quickly cleared
Well, things were better off
Than I had feared.

2012? I’ll deal with that when we get closer.

157 pharmmajor  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 12:50:43pm

re: #155 harlequinade

Is that a vote splitter?

No, I don’t want them to split the vote. I want the Libertarians to win over the Democrats and the Republicans.

158 ClaudeMonet  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 12:56:42pm

re: #133 CarleeCork

Bush won a second term didn’t he? Americans are easily fooled.

The alternative was John Forbes Kerry, windsurfer, backbencher, inheritor of wealth and husband of someone who got rich the same way, patrician, flip-flopper, and creator of zero ideas. It was a classic winnable election that the Democrats, in their infinite capacity to screw up, screwed up.

People flat out did not LIKE John Forbes Kerry, so they stuck with the known quantity.

159 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 1:07:43pm

There was a time when public school was where science and history were taught: religion was reserved for Sunday school classes in the church of one’s choice.

Texas is on its way to being the first state where evolutionists and secularists have to hold Sunday school classes to teach their kids about Darwin, Jefferson, the New Deal and Martin Luther King.

160 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 1:10:13pm

re: #158 ClaudeMonet


People flat out did not LIKE John Forbes Kerry, so they stuck with the known quantity.

And becasue people did lot like him, the monkey poo that they flung at him tended to stick.

They tried the same tactics with Obama, but he was affable and charismatic enough that the primate droppings did not stick. That did not keep people like Orly Taitz from just flinging harder in desperation, but in to date, he has maintained a very high Teflon content to his skin.

161 harlequinade  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 1:16:25pm

re: #157 pharmmajor

But the vote will be split - someone’s going to lose them for the Libertarians to get them. Which could make this thing interesting

162 Romantic Heretic  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 4:46:43pm

The big problem with intelligent design is trying to explain scientifically what the designing intelligence is. They assume it’s God, Allah to Zeus, take your pick.

They’ll sure feel silly if we were designed by aliens.

Which might explain a lot.

163 Romantic Heretic  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 4:54:06pm

re: #40 marjoriemoon

Or Islamic extremism.

The difference between extremist Christianity and extremist Islam is like the difference between a wate moccasin and a copperhead, merely aesthetic.

The important thing in common is both are venomous snakes. If you’re bitten by either, you’re fucked.

164 Romantic Heretic  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 5:00:26pm

re: #68 Nimed

The parable of The Grand Inquisitor.

Old joke:

A cardinal runs into the Pope’s office. “He’s back! The Lord has returned! He’s riding into St. Peter’s Square on an ass. People are throwing palm leaves in front of Him. What are we going to do?”

The Pope replies, “Look busy.”

165 Romantic Heretic  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 5:08:26pm

re: #81 ralphieboy

There is a line of conservative ideology that the Free Market (TM) is some sort of divine natural state that should be free of government interference and that any interference is a sign of creeping socialism and the end of the American Dream (TM).

The market is a mechanism, it depends on a functioning infrasturcture and legal system. And even Adam Smith, the granddaddy of the Free Market (TM) said that markets are there to serve the people, not the other way around

I can never hear the phrase, “American Dream,” without thinking of this scene from Watchmen.

166 Romantic Heretic  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 5:11:00pm

re: #82 WindUpBird

Private enterprise is machinery. Machinery is incredibly important! But machinery will not be compassionate, it will not administer justice. It’s just machinery.

The whole private enterprise at odds with government is just the dumbest false dichotomy I’ve ever heard of. Government creates the environment for private enterprise to thrive, imagine banks without the FDIC for example

Yes! It’s all just tools. They do only what their users direct them to do.

To assign ethical qualities to tools, e.g. capitalism is good/evil, is to give them too much power. And it becomes an excuse for doing harm to other people.

167 loubob57  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 5:41:16am

I’ve always been Catholic and I don’t remember being taught not to believe in evolution. In fact the Vatican has expressed the opinion that evolution is not incosistent with the teachings of the Catholic Church.

But then I guess some don’t consider Catholics to be Christian. ;)


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