Friends of Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer: Sweden Democrats

Weird • Views: 6,071

One of the European allies of American anti-Muslim demagogues Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer is a political party called the “Sweden Democrats” — a party with roots in outright Nazism.

Last week a Sweden Democrats politician was forced to quit after posting an ugly racist rant at his blog, claiming that Africans have ‘rape genes’.

A politician has quit a far right party in Sweden after his blog, in which he claimed black Africans are genetically predisposed towards rape, caused outrage across the country. Per T K Wahlberg of the Sweden Democrats party has been forced to stand down from his position after claiming that people of African descent have been raping women and children for centuries.

Wahlberg currently holds 26th place on the party’s list for municipal election in Landskrona, southern Sweden. At the last elections in 2006, the Sweden Democrats, who are attempting to distance themselves from open racism, claimed 11 seats in the area.

In his blog entitled “Landskronabackspege”, meaning Landskrona rear view mirror, 76-year-old retiree Wahlberg wrote about what he sees as the “genetic characteristics” of black Africans.

“For many thousands of years, the Negro could chill out in the heat, eat some bananas, rape some passing woman or child, fight with other negro males and eat them up, play the drums a little, run around a bit, catch an antelope, eat a few bananas, f**k a bit, get drunk on fermented fruits or herbs, and so on. This has been going on for millennia without any evolutionary pressure in the form of environmental factors forcing the Negro to develop in another direction,” the blog read.

Speaking to The Local on Friday, Wahlberg refused to completely distance himself from the controversy and said the “ironically” written quotes were taken from Sweden’s provocative political and media forum Flashback. “You could say that some parts have some truth to them. But generally speaking it is written with irony,” he said.

However, in an earlier interview with local paper Helsingborgs Dagblad, Wahlberg insisted, “I think that it was quite an accurate description. If we look at history, then humanity began in Africa once upon a time, and then there were some who emigrated to Europe and Asia. But at what level are they now? Not much has happened over these thousands of years.”

Wahlberg claims that the Sweden Democrats have never been critical about his blog, which also contains posts which are disparaging towards Muslims. He has, however, since left the party in the wake of increased attention from the country’s mainstream media.

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115 comments
1 Winny Spencer  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 10:46:11am

General election here tomorrow.

According to most polls, they will gain seats in parliament for the first time.

2 researchok  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 10:48:35am

This is what happens when you paint yourself into a corner, Ms Geller.

Ah, the company you have to keep...

3 jaunte  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 10:52:01am
This has been going on for millennia without any evolutionary pressure in the form of environmental factors forcing the Negro to develop in another direction,”

...generally speaking it is written with irony,” he said.

It's a two-fer: the idiotic pseudo scientific analysis followed by the "it was just irony" defense.

4 Summer Seale  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 10:52:34am

I find it amazing that the mainstream media still treats these batshit insane "movement leaders" with any credibility whatsoever. Think about how many connections she has to outright Nazi leaders, just as with Buchanan, and journalists still invite them as an equal partner in discussions with rational people to try to counter their craziness.

The media should be completely ashamed for being this ignorant, stupid, and foolish.

5 KenJen  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 10:58:33am

The article is wrong. Incorrect translation. "Landskronabackspege" doesnt mean "rear view mirror" in Swedish. It means "seeing your rear when you look in the mirror." Which is appropiate in this case.

now I'm really going home. bye.

6 Escaped Hillbilly  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 10:59:25am

So I'm gone running a range for a week and come back to find Stewart and Colbert are organizing a Moderation Ralley. Hoping to discuss I come to LGF only to find I missed it. Sob. Now it's back to the crazy people. Bummer.

7 Gus  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 11:01:11am

re: #4 Summer

I find it amazing that the mainstream media still treats these batshit insane "movement leaders" with any credibility whatsoever. Think about how many connections she has to outright Nazi leaders, just as with Buchanan, and journalists still invite them as an equal partner in discussions with rational people to try to counter their craziness.

The media should be completely ashamed for being this ignorant, stupid, and foolish.

In many respects I don't think the media even cares anymore. It is run by highly payed and thus out of touch individuals who treat their profession as another 9 to 5 job -- and with that comes professional apathy. And like most large corporations the employees follow the guidelines set forth by the top brass. There is no longer an interest in news or getting at the truth. It is simply a matter of ratings and advertising revenue.

8 Interesting Times  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 11:02:13am

re: #6 Escaped Hillbilly

So I'm gone running a range for a week and come back to find Stewart and Colbert are organizing a Moderation Ralley. Hoping to discuss I come to LGF only to find I missed it. Sob. Now it's back to the crazy people. Bummer.

You can still discuss the Stewart/Colbert rally in LGF Pages, if you want - beekiller has two posts up about it:

Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert: Dems’ Oct. surprise?

The Daily Show with Jon Stewart: Rally to Restore Sanity

9 jamesfirecat  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 11:02:50am

///See? See? I always told you guys that the democrats were the real racists and now you can see that we have proof!

10 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 11:03:12am

re: #7 Gus 802

In many respects I don't think the media even cares anymore. It is run by highly payed and thus out of touch individuals who treat their profession as another 9 to 5 job -- and with that comes professional apathy. And like most large corporations the employees follow the guidelines set forth by the top brass. There is no longer an interest in news or getting at the truth. It is simply a matter of ratings and advertising revenue.

What was your first clue... yellow journalism, Hearst or Pulitzer?

11 Gus  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 11:03:46am

re: #10 Walter L. Newton

What was your first clue... yellow journalism, Hearst or Pulitzer?

Local news actually. That's where a lot of this started.

12 Cato the Elder  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 11:04:17am

Before they settled down to become morose alcoholic blond suicidal Lutherans, the Swedes had quite a little rep for rapine, pillage and plunder themselves, throughout Northern Europe.

This guy just misses the good old days.

13 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 11:08:05am

re: #11 Gus 802

Local news actually. That's where a lot of this started.

Boy... when you miss a point, you miss it by a mile.

14 Escaped Hillbilly  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 11:09:06am

re: #8 publicityStunted

Thanks yes.

15 Gus  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 11:09:10am

re: #13 Walter L. Newton

Boy... when you miss a point, you miss it by a mile.

Do me a favor Walt. Ignore me from now on. I find you to be rather obnoxious and boring.

16 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 11:10:51am

re: #15 Gus 802

Do me a favor Walt. Ignore me from now on. I find you to be rather obnoxious and boring.

LOL. Point made...

17 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 11:13:03am

re: #11 Gus 802

Local news actually. That's where a lot of this started.

Sure... never happened before local news...

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

18 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 11:15:19am

Frank Luther Mott (1941) defines yellow journalism in terms of five characteristics:[1]

1)scare headlines in huge print, often of minor news

2) lavish use of pictures, or imaginary drawings

3) use of faked interviews, misleading headlines, pseudo-science, and a parade of false learning from so-called experts

4) emphasis on full-color Sunday supplements, usually with comic strips (which is now normal in the U.S.)

5) dramatic sympathy with the "underdog" against the system.

Fox News... Fair and Balanced... we report, you decide.

Ecclesiastes 1:9 (New International Version) What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.

19 McSpiff  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 11:16:13am

re: #15 Gus 802

Do me a favor Walt. Ignore me from now on. I find you to be rather obnoxious and boring.

I have an autoGAZE script. Highly recommended for keeping your sanity.

20 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 11:17:16am

re: #19 McSpiff

I have an autoGAZE script. Highly recommended for keeping your sanity.

Can I have it too?

21 Summer Seale  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 11:18:12am

re: #7 Gus 802

In many respects I don't think the media even cares anymore. It is run by highly payed and thus out of touch individuals who treat their profession as another 9 to 5 job -- and with that comes professional apathy. And like most large corporations the employees follow the guidelines set forth by the top brass. There is no longer an interest in news or getting at the truth. It is simply a matter of ratings and advertising revenue.

Yea but they have editors who tell them what to say.

22 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 11:23:34am

re: #3 jaunte

It's a two-fer: the idiotic pseudo scientific analysis followed by the "it was just irony" defense.

Standard racist wingnut defenses:

First line of defense "I don't see anything racist about it"

Second line: "It was meant ironically"

Third line: "Are you trying to restrict Freedom of Speech?"

23 Kronocide  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 11:24:29am

re: #22 ralphieboy

You forgot 'I have black friends.'

24 jaunte  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 11:25:02am

re: #22 ralphieboy

"Can't we all just get past what's politically correct?"

25 bratwurst  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 11:25:32am

re: #22 ralphieboy

Don't forget my favorite: "I can't POSSIBLY be racist if I am just telling the truth."

26 [deleted]  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 11:30:35am
27 McSpiff  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 11:31:38am

re: #20 Walter L. Newton

Can I have it too?

Sure, it uses the Greasemonkey add-on for firefox as its runtime. Adds three commands to the "User Actions" submenu (found under the "Greasemonkey" menu, screenshot here). Scrubs threads clean on load and when the "new comments" button is used.

Can be installed from here

No warranty is implied, this product is not fit for any purpose, the author is not responsible for any resulting usage. All code is released to the public domain.

28 [deleted]  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 11:32:46am
29 Escaped Hillbilly  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 11:34:51am

re: #22 ralphieboy

Standard racist wingnut defenses:

First line of defense "I don't see anything racist about it"

Second line: "It was meant ironically"

Third line: "Are you trying to restrict Freedom of Speech?"



I don't see anything sexist about it.
I was only kidding.
You are trying to control me/change my basic nature.
Guys are like that.
You're hormonal.
My mom thought that/laughed at that joke/told me so.

It's not religious, it's emotional/literary/political.
Don't you people have a sense of humor?
Freedom of religion/freedom from religion/freedom of speech.
Historically, it's true.
My jewish friends tell the best jewish jokes.

Yeah, same bull excuses. Still not buying it.

30 [deleted]  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 11:37:25am
31 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 11:37:56am

Every generation thinks they discovered something new for the first time. And when they do they will embrace their discovery or rebel against it and sometimes ignore it.

Those who embrace it, they do it with religious fervor, waving it's banner, cock-sure that they have started a new age of enlightenment. Those that rebel against it do the same, reenacting battles that have already been fought, won and/or lost and recorded in the history books for posterity.

And in every generation there are those whole fail to understand history, fail to learn from past experiences, blindly forging ahead because of their certain rightness.

Contemporary examples include hyperbole about fundamentalism, right and left far politics and the media. As if these ideologies and professions have not been beset with the same sort of rhetoric and in practice the same sort of machinations for ages.

But, when it serves the purpose to make a point, mock and make obscure the "other side," reason leaves the room, and suddenly all is made new again.

And I make note of this myself, since everything I just said has been said a million times before.

32 ClaudeMonet  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 11:42:35am

re: #31 Walter L. Newton

Every generation thinks they discovered something new for the first time. And when they do they will embrace their discovery or rebel against it and sometimes ignore it.

Those who embrace it, they do it with religious fervor, waving it's banner, cock-sure that they have started a new age of enlightenment. Those that rebel against it do the same, reenacting battles that have already been fought, won and/or lost and recorded in the history books for posterity.

And in every generation there are those whole fail to understand history, fail to learn from past experiences, blindly forging ahead because of their certain rightness.

Contemporary examples include hyperbole about fundamentalism, right and left far politics and the media. As if these ideologies and professions have not been beset with the same sort of rhetoric and in practice the same sort of machinations for ages.

But, when it serves the purpose to make a point, mock and make obscure the "other side," reason leaves the room, and suddenly all is made new again.

And I make note of this myself, since everything I just said has been said a million times before.

It's always worth the occasional reminder.

33 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 11:44:21am

re: #32 ClaudeMonet

It's always worth the occasional reminder.

Thanks...

Nap time now... got a evening shift tonight that ends at midnight. And then back in Sunday morning at 10 am. Poopy schedule this coming week.

34 McSpiff  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 11:45:19am

re: #31 Walter L. Newton

Every generation thinks they discovered something new for the first time. And when they do they will embrace their discovery or rebel against it and sometimes ignore it.

Those who embrace it, they do it with religious fervor, waving it's banner, cock-sure that they have started a new age of enlightenment. Those that rebel against it do the same, reenacting battles that have already been fought, won and/or lost and recorded in the history books for posterity.

And in every generation there are those whole fail to understand history, fail to learn from past experiences, blindly forging ahead because of their certain rightness.

Contemporary examples include hyperbole about fundamentalism, right and left far politics and the media. As if these ideologies and professions have not been beset with the same sort of rhetoric and in practice the same sort of machinations for ages.

But, when it serves the purpose to make a point, mock and make obscure the "other side," reason leaves the room, and suddenly all is made new again.

And I make note of this myself, since everything I just said has been said a million times before.

Because if there's anything we can learn from history, its that the best idea to be apathetic towards extremists. Right

35 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 11:47:33am

re: #34 McSpiff

Because if there's anything we can learn from history, its that the best idea to be apathetic towards extremists. Right

I think the point of my short essay was the hyperbole conjured up around these new discoveries, not honest and intelligent debate.

36 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 11:47:57am

Really... nap time.

37 McSpiff  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 11:48:22am

re: #35 Walter L. Newton

I think the point of my short essay was the hyperbole conjured up around these new discoveries, not honest and intelligent debate.

In that case, I'll agree

38 jaunte  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 11:51:01am

Since the thread has been killed, I'll post an old cartoon.
Image: modernanything1927.jpg

39 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 11:54:45am

Meanwhile at white nationalist site VDARE, they're advising Jews to get onboard with the neo-Nazis before it's too late.

VDARE.com: 09/13/10 - Wistrich's New Book On Anti-Semitism: It's Not The Right, It's The (Muslim) Immigrants

In my view, Jews must draw a lesson from all this: only an alliance with, and support for, hard right anti-immigration parties like the Vlaams Belang, the Front National, and the BNP will ensure their survival in Europe.

40 Kragar  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 11:56:25am

re: #39 Charles

Meanwhile at white nationalist site VDARE, they're advising Jews to get onboard with the neo-Nazis before it's too late.

VDARE.com: 09/13/10 - Wistrich's New Book On Anti-Semitism: It's Not The Right, It's The (Muslim) Immigrants

I sense an "or else".

41 Kronocide  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 12:00:46pm

g bre: #40 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I sense an "or else".

Funny, I did too.

'Because if you're not with us, you're with them.'

42 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 12:02:58pm

re: #39 Charles

Meanwhile at white nationalist site VDARE, they're advising Jews to get onboard with the neo-Nazis before it's too late.

VDARE.com: 09/13/10 - Wistrich's New Book On Anti-Semitism: It's Not The Right, It's The (Muslim) Immigrants

It seems to be the new strategy for the right to woo Jewish voters.....
The Death Wish of the Jewish Intellectual Left

A comment from PJM.....

6. Talnik

Well, there certainly is a dis-proportionate number of Jews that work to undermine any society that accepts them. Deliberate, or a genetic death-wish?

43 tnguitarist  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 12:04:48pm

re: #42 Killgore Trout

That PJM comment is disgusting.

44 Randall Gross  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 12:58:50pm

Hate to criticize here Charles, but there is one thing you could do better in all of these articles about the Geller/Spencer friends in Europe. That would be to tie SIOA to SIOE and mention how that form of Eurobigotry leapt the pond and came here, and how similar the tactics are.

I don't think many outside of the lizards here in the US know of that Udo Offke (sp?) connection. It's not as if we haven't heard the same sort of "mass rape in Malmo" accusations from Fjordman in Sweden, Lionheart in the UK, and other SIOE pimps regarding Muslims in Europe.

45 Truth Dr.  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 1:02:46pm

So if your a Swede, you either love Muslims and hate Jews or hate both Muslims and Jews. What a country!!!

46 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 1:05:00pm

re: #30 Walter L. Newton

Biden defense...

"I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy," Biden said. "I mean, that's a storybook, man."

haha yeah that's exactly the same as the n word

47 Randall Gross  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 1:07:07pm

That's a sweeping generalization - downding for being bigoted against the Swedish and for not accepting that they are a mixed bag of views just like the rest of humanity...

48 Truth Dr.  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 1:10:04pm

#47 - Thanos. Actually not - it's clear that there is a large anti-Jewish animus in Sweden - the whole blood libel about organ parts, the FM's Carl Bildt's offensive remarks, the inability of the Israeli Davis Cup tennis team to play without violence in Malmo. There isn't much of an uproar about that in Sweden.

49 Randall Gross  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 1:12:07pm

re: #48 Truth Dr.

Um bullshit, that's a small part of the population, the general population of Sweden could care less one way or the other. You should not exaggerate with a nic of "Truth Dr" ....

50 Truth Dr.  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 1:19:09pm

I let the facts speak for themselves:

[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

[Link: www.forward.com...]

[Link: www.swedishwire.com...]

[Link: www.dailystar.com.lb...]

51 Randall Gross  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 1:22:25pm

re: #50 Truth Dr.

A few events and news stories do not make a whole country, like all biased sweeping generalists you want to tuck an entire variegated population into one tidy niche into which they do not fit. Next are you going to start telling us about rapes in Malmo?

52 Truth Dr.  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 1:27:57pm

Actually no Thanos but thanks for setting up the straw man. My story is also based on anecdotal evidence from people who have been to Sweden. I'm not saying that every Swede is an anti-semite, but I 'm saying that there are enough there that its acceptable in the public discourse - why else would a mainstream newspaper publish a blood libel about organ snatching and get away with it -- at least within Sweden.

53 sagehen  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 1:29:12pm

re: #51 Thanos

A few events and news stories do not make a whole country, like all biased sweeping generalists you want to tuck an entire variegated population into one tidy niche into which they do not fit. Next are you going to start telling us about rapes in Malmo?

It's kind of a small country; how many event does it take to be representative of the whole?

54 Randall Gross  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 1:29:24pm

Really we are all aware that there is a large Turkish ghetto in Malmo, we are aware that there are serious problems there caused by a small minority. Your orginal comment slammed the entire country.

Hans Rosling is Swedish, is he an anti Semite or far right bigot? There are Jews who are Swedish, are they anti-semite or far right bigot?

55 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 1:30:07pm

re: #48 Truth Dr.

#47 - Thanos. Actually not - it's clear that there is a large anti-Jewish animus in Sweden - the whole blood libel about organ parts, the FM's Carl Bildt's offensive remarks, the inability of the Israeli Davis Cup tennis team to play without violence in Malmo. There isn't much of an uproar about that in Sweden.

I wonder if you have such strong opinions about the obvious racism being codified into textbooks in Texas

Not news reports, TEXTBOOKS

But whatevs, dude, you seem to be one of those anti-Muslim scenesters from the old days, another 2004 throwback

56 Randall Gross  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 1:30:42pm

re: #52 Truth Dr.

Your comment was a sweeping generalization that slammed a whole country exactly as any bigot would stretch the exception to make the rule. With your name you need to be more careful about "Truth" n'est ce pas?

57 Randall Gross  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 1:32:04pm

re: #53 sagehen

You tell me, how long before you slam an entire country/people/religion/group for the behavior of a few?

58 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 1:32:23pm

re: #56 Thanos

I always wonder if some of the anti-Sweden slamming is coming from conservatives who are tired of hearing how much better Sweden's social services are than America's

that there's a little extra special somethin' in it for them if they can take the entire country and demonize it

Them's swedes is racist, not like us good ol' boys in the South!

59 Truth Dr.  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 1:32:45pm

Actually, other than saying that a large element of Swedes hates both Jews and Muslims, I have said nothing about Muslims Wind up Bird. My point is that in Sweden an uncomfortably large segment of the population hates Jews. Texas, as far as I know, isn't near Sweden. If you want to discuss Texas, what is your point there?

60 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 1:33:47pm

re: #52 Truth Dr.

Actually no Thanos but thanks for setting up the straw man. My story is also based on anecdotal evidence from people who have been to Sweden. I'm not saying that every Swede is an anti-semite, but I 'm saying that there are enough there that its acceptable in the public discourse - why else would a mainstream newspaper publish a blood libel about organ snatching and get away with it -- at least within Sweden.

something tells me you don't treat racism in America with the same interest as you treat anecdotal accounts of racism in a country you've never been to

Something tells me...

61 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 1:34:59pm

re: #59 Truth Dr.

Actually, other than saying that a large element of Swedes hates both Jews and Muslims, I have said nothing about Muslims Wind up Bird. My point is that in Sweden an uncomfortably large segment of the population hates Jews. Texas, as far as I know, isn't near Sweden. If you want to discuss Texas, what is your point there?

We know what's going on here, we know what 2004 was like, we know the memes, we know the repetition

I was born at night, I wasn't born last night

62 Randall Gross  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 1:35:44pm

re: #59 Truth Dr.

Actually you slammed the whole fricken country:

So if your a Swede, you either love Muslims and hate Jews or hate both Muslims and Jews. What a country!!!

That's an all inclusive statement -- and it's bigoted. Here's another hint: as an employer I can't ask someone what their national origin is during an employment interview...

63 Truth Dr.  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 1:35:56pm

While you're at it Wind Up Bird, why don't you give me your picks for tomorrow's NFL Schedule, that way I'll know who to bet against because you clearly cannot prognosticate. This thread is about Sweden's Democrats. If there is a thread on racism in Texas or elsewhere in the US my comments will be directed toward that phenomemon.

64 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 1:36:08pm

re: #57 Thanos

Not quite off topic, but I am totally seeing my favorite Swedish metal band in a few days in Portland 8-)

65 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 1:37:01pm

re: #63 Truth Dr.

While you're at it Wind Up Bird, why don't you give me your picks for tomorrow's NFL Schedule, that way I'll know who to bet against because you clearly cannot prognosticate. This thread is about Sweden's Democrats. If there is a thread on racism in Texas or elsewhere in the US my comments will be directed toward that phenomemon.

yeah, and you're taking the thread and laying a giant shit in it, well done, mom potty-trained you well

66 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 1:38:05pm

re: #45 Truth Dr.

So if your a Swede, you either love Muslims and hate Jews or hate both Muslims and Jews. What a country!!!

Stuff like this is why you don't get to sit at the grown-up's table

67 Randall Gross  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 1:38:43pm

Again, I would say to have more care about the Truth if you style yourself as a doctor of it...

68 Truth Dr.  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 1:38:57pm

Thanos - It's a large enough representation such that it's problematic. Obviously every Swede is not an anti-semite but there is enough anti-semitic sentiment out there in the media and politics that if the same proportion was that way in the US, we'd be labelled much worse. Imagine Hillary Clinton uttering Bildt's words and still having her job and the New York Times publishing the blood libel.

69 Truth Dr.  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 1:39:50pm

Wind Up Bird - besides ad hominem attacks, do you ever say anything of substance?

70 Randall Gross  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 1:40:07pm

re: #68 Truth Dr.

It's obvious to you now after you are challenged, but it wasn't "obvious" enough for you to speak truly without exaggeration?

pfft.

71 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 1:41:13pm

re: #53 sagehen

It's kind of a small country; how many event does it take to be representative of the whole?

I dunno, how many racist politicians does it take to become representative of Mississippi?

Slamming whole countries is not what thinking people do

72 Truth Dr.  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 1:41:49pm

It's the general attitude of the country I was getting at and Sweden has a huge anti-semitism problem.

73 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 1:42:12pm

re: #68 Truth Dr.

Thanos - It's a large enough representation such that it's problematic. Obviously every Swede is not an anti-semite but there is enough anti-semitic sentiment out there in the media and politics that if the same proportion was that way in the US, we'd be labelled much worse. Imagine Hillary Clinton uttering Bildt's words and still having her job and the New York Times publishing the blood libel.

You are just asserting crazy shit stuff right and left

Sorry, we're not treating your assertions as fact, mister 2004

74 Truth Dr.  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 1:42:33pm

We all generalize, just like Wind Up Bird and his good 'ole boys in the South.

75 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 1:43:49pm

re: #72 Truth Dr.

It's the general attitude of the country I was getting at and Sweden has a huge anti-semitism problem.

Hey repeat it again!

Oh and repeat it again!

Because the last five times you asserted something without backing it up, we weren't listening

Repeat it one more time for the cheap seats!

Also, when you call yourself "Truth Doctor", and then make wild assertions, we sorta assume you're a mindless blowhard, that's just my own personal appraisal

76 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 1:46:58pm

re: #72 Truth Dr.

It's the general attitude of the country I was getting at and Sweden has a huge anti-semitism problem.

Hypocraisy is a real thing, being demonstrated by real politicians, that are really real right now

Plenty of great people in the south (music scene in Georgia), and plenty of shithead racists who really should be stripped of all power and shunned by all life for the things they have said (Haley Barbour, Jesse Helms)

But you know what I don't do?

I don't just say the whole south is shit. Just because Jesse Helms was the face of NC, doesn't mean I'm going to dismiss all of NC

because I'm not a sleeper 2004 douche!

77 Truth Dr.  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 1:48:38pm

In addition to the previous articles, here is additional evidence:

[Link: www.thelocal.se...]

[Link: www.washingtontimes.com...]

[Link: www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...]

[Link: www.hudson-ny.org...]

78 Truth Dr.  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 1:50:20pm

Wind Up Bird: I also don't know what a sleeper 2004 douche is?

79 Randall Gross  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 1:58:10pm

re: #77 Truth Dr.

Yes, we have established that there are bigots in Sweden, there's no question about that. We've also established that you yourself are capable of unwarranted bigotry through nonspecificity.

80 Randall Gross  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 2:05:38pm

Would you perhaps take umbrage if I bashed all of Canada and all Canadians for the bigot views of Cathy Shaidle or Ron James? How about if I bashed all of Canada for the behavior of a minority of the population in Mississauga?

81 Truth Dr.  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 2:07:20pm

Thanos: Who are Cathy Shaidle and Ron James? Based on your criteria, what does one do about Iran?

82 Randall Gross  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 2:12:01pm

re: #81 Truth Dr.

This is a thread about Swedish bigots, you appear to want to make it about something else, like those horrible Muslims in Malmo. Why is that?

Your links are distraction, the Swedish Democrats are a far right bigot organization with roots in outright nazism, do you agree?
The Swedish Democrats sympathize with SIOE, and the other Eurobigot friends of Spencer and Geller -- do you agree?

83 Randall Gross  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 2:13:09pm

What is it about Swedes that makes you dislike them so?

84 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 2:15:14pm

re: #82 Thanos

This is a thread about Swedish bigots, you appear to want to make it about something else, like those horrible Muslims in Malmo. Why is that?

Your links are distraction, the Swedish Democrats are a far right bigot organization with roots in outright nazism, do you agree?
The Swedish Democrats sympathize with SIOE, and the other Eurobigot friends of Spencer and Geller -- do you agree?

I agree with you. The Islamists are a serious problem, but their existence does not nullify the racism of the Swedish Demonrats (unlike the US Democrats, this pack deserves the label).

85 Truth Dr.  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 2:15:26pm

The links support my argument that large elements of the Swedish population are anti-semitic. I don't have any time for bigots like Swedish Democrats - they're in the group that hate Muslims, Jews and any others that aren't pur laine Swedes. Spencer and Geller demean themselves linking themselves with these groups. My view on Muslims is that there is a significant anti-semitism problem within large swaths of the Muslim population -- do I need to provide you with evidence of that?

86 Randall Gross  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 2:16:34pm

re: #72 Truth Dr.

Again bullshit.

87 Truth Dr.  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 2:16:56pm

Thanos - I find the way that the Swedes go out of their way to attack Israel, and by extension Jews, is troubling.

88 Randall Gross  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 2:17:32pm

re: #85 Truth Dr.

Bullshit.
What percent of the population represents "Large" to you ?

89 Truth Dr.  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 2:17:43pm

Thanos - If you don't think there is an anti-semitism problem in Sweden, you're the one that has the cattle issues.

90 Truth Dr.  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 2:21:08pm

In 2005, 36% of Swedes were ambivalent or agreed with some anti-semitic statements while another 5% had strong anti-semitic attitudes. Given the additional attacks on Israel (and by extension Jews) in the Swedish press and politically, those numbers are no doubt higher.

[Link: www.ejpress.org...]

91 Randall Gross  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 2:22:10pm

re: #89 Truth Dr.

Thanos - If you don't think there is an anti-semitism problem in Sweden, you're the one that has the cattle issues.

No, there is a problem with Islamophobia in Sweden and other parts of Europe, there has always also been a problem with anti-semitism in Europe, but why do you respond in a thread about prejudice against blacks with the tu quoque comparison of anti semitism in Sweden? You are a one note violin or a fool.

92 Truth Dr.  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 2:22:55pm

Actually, Spain may have a worse anti-semitism problem:

[Link: www.antisemitism.org.il...]

93 Randall Gross  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 2:27:53pm

re: #92 Truth Dr.

Of course they do, but the same Fascist orgs and groups that were previously fully anti semite are now focusing their ire on Muslims instead because they can get more political purchase there atm. They'll come for the Jews and the far right's "convenient for now" Kahanist allies later, "the Kahanists will sure be surprised" is the Eurofascist thinking.

94 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 2:28:08pm

re: #90 Truth Dr.

In 2005, 36% of Swedes were ambivalent or agreed with some anti-semitic statements while another 5% had strong anti-semitic attitudes. Given the additional attacks on Israel (and by extension Jews) in the Swedish press and politically, those numbers are no doubt higher.

[Link: www.ejpress.org...]

True, and that is a legit issue but its not the topic. If you want to talk about that, put up your own page. LGF has that feature now.

95 Randall Gross  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 2:32:03pm

re: #94 Dark_Falcon

We are past fifty comments now, and I believe "Doctor Troof!" has gotten my point about generalizations, so I will relent. Talk about anything I will not complain, but remember that exaggeration diminishes rather than embellishes your points...

96 Truth Dr.  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 2:32:08pm

These are some of the things that drive Islamophobia, particuarly among those in the Jewish communities:

[Link: www.antisemitism.org.il...]

[Link: www.antisemitism.org.il...]

[Link: www.antisemitism.org.il...]

[Link: www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...]

[Link: www.matthiaskuentzel.de...]

97 Winny Spencer  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 2:37:49pm

re: #96 Truth Dr.

So all of your comments basically amount to a defense of Pamela Geller?

98 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 2:40:17pm

re: #95 Thanos

We are past fifty comments now, and I believe "Doctor Troof!" has gotten my point about generalizations, so I will relent. Talk about anything I will not complain, but remember that exaggeration diminishes rather than embellishes your points...

Quite Concur.

99 Randall Gross  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 2:41:29pm

re: #97 Winny Spencer

No, I think he knows that Robert Spencer, Pamela Geller, their friends in SD, Fjordman, and even Udo still stink, please advise us if I miss-characterize things Truth Doctor?

/of course he didn't answer the other questions either...

100 Truth Dr.  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 2:42:13pm

No, I don't defend Pamela Geller as she has jumped off the deep end into the cesspool of unbridled hate. However, that does not mean that the Jewish population does not have reason to fear elements of the Muslim population. There is a lot of hate against Jews out there and yes, I consider hatred (not reasoned criticism) of Israel to be hatred of Jews.

101 Truth Dr.  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 2:43:51pm

Thanos, I can advise that you misspelled "mis-characterize".

102 Winny Spencer  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 2:45:02pm

re: #100 Truth Dr.

Ok, then I was mistaken.

103 Randall Gross  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 2:47:26pm

re: #101 Truth Dr.

Yes, but spell check "fixed" it for me when I spelled it correctly, so your criticism misses mark...

Now are you going to answer any of the questions ?

104 Randall Gross  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 2:53:06pm

*note- it's firefoxes spell checker, not Charles'

mis-characterize [test] -- Charles' spell checker does not like it either.

So I think it's not a real accepted word to open source dictionaries, we are both wrong by them. Mischaracterize still shows up wrong, but you can look it up online spelled that way without a problem.

105 Truth Dr.  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 2:53:56pm

Which questions Thanos? I answered your question on Geller.

106 Randall Gross  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 2:56:56pm

re: #105 Truth Dr.

Those in comment 54. Hans Rosling, Jews in Sweden just to jog your memory of those upthread.

107 Randall Gross  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 2:59:26pm

The question in comment 82 did not get answered until just recent, but I had assumed that you were not in favor of the shrieking harpie's swill already.

108 Truth Dr.  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 3:10:58pm

There are Swedes who are neither anti-semitic nor anti-Muslim. The questions becomes when does a country become anti-semitic or anti-Muslim? Is Pakistan anti-semitic (In Pakistan, 6% of respondents indicated having a favorable view of Jews in 2006; 71% indicated having an unfavorable view. In 2005, 5% indicated having a favorable view of Jews; 74% indicated having an unfavorable view.)

Source: [Link: www.state.gov...]

109 onetwo  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 3:39:09pm

I'm swedish. I'll cast my vote in a few hours time, definately not for Sverigedemokraterna. I fear they will get get more than the required 4 %. This could cause some serious problems for our nation.

re: #5 KenJen

No, the article is correct. Landskrona is a small town where he lives and backspegel means rear view mirror.

110 cenotaphium  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 4:54:40pm

I haven't commented in a long time. I am a Swede (in case you forgot). Frankly I'm depressed over the SD situation. The best view I can take at the moment is that there's a whole lot of voter dissatisfaction being expressed in this, as was the case back in the 90's when the populist Ny Demokrati entered parliament (the only real shakeup in decades). It had dismal votes the next election and dropped out of parliament and disappeared thereafter.
Here's hoping history repeats, eh?

The two blocs of parties have both expressed a desire to rather work amongst themselves than to let SD become the tie-breaker (a situation that's very likely to happen, given the current polls). That's something.

I'm feeling the apathy over the main parties myself, but wanted to cast a vote just to keep the SD average down. As we witnessed with the BNP being "crushed" in the English elections, despite receiving more votes than ever, the proportional number of votes matter in our systems.

As for Truth Doc.. sigh.
I'd started writing up a rebuttal, but I realized it wasn't worth it. Dead thread and all.

111 What, me worry?  Sat, Sep 18, 2010 5:32:27pm

re: #108 Truth Dr.

There are Swedes who are neither anti-semitic nor anti-Muslim. The questions becomes when does a country become anti-semitic or anti-Muslim? Is Pakistan anti-semitic (In Pakistan, 6% of respondents indicated having a favorable view of Jews in 2006; 71% indicated having an unfavorable view. In 2005, 5% indicated having a favorable view of Jews; 74% indicated having an unfavorable view.)

Source: [Link: www.state.gov...]

I think it's based on how a country treats its Muslim or Jewish population. From the links you posted which seem reputable, Jews are concentrated in 3 major cities, one of which, Malmo where they're being singled out and discriminated against. That much is abundantly clear. What else is clear is that the government is doing nothing about it, to their own peril I may add. So yea, if anti-Semitism is rising in the 3 cities where most of the Jews are, it's safe to say that Sweden is anti-Semitic at worst, or just don't care at best. Either way, it doesn't appear they're attempting to stop it. What's that saying about when good men do nothing?

As a side note, is this what's going to happen to the Muslims in NY? I wonder.

At any rate, I'm rather shocked to see the downdings you got on the subject.

112 Øyvind Strømmen  Sun, Sep 19, 2010 6:00:42am

re: #53 sagehen

It's kind of a small country; how many event does it take to be representative of the whole?

I don't know if I would call Sweden a small country. Out of 223 countries and territories in the world, it ranks as number 88.

Anyway, there is anti-Semitism in Sweden, and since we're painting broadly here; it can be divided into roughly four kinds of anti-Semitism.

1) Old-fashioned anti-Semitism of the "Europe in the 1920s"-kind. Disgusting cultural phenomenons don't always die easy, and as a neutral country during WWII Sweden never really had the confrontation against Jew-hatred seen in other European countries.

2) Anti-Semitism from the extreme left, generally tied to anti-Israeli ideas.

3) Anti-Semitism from the extreme right. One wonders where they picked up the idea.

4) Muslim anti-Semitism, inspired by classical Islamic anti-Semitism and more importantly by modern-day anti-Semitism in the socalled Muslim world (and obviously, far from all Muslims are anti-Semitic).

Now, can you imagine any Swedes falling outside those categories? Can you imagine that the combination of 1, 2, 3 and 4 might lead to some (undoubtably nasty) "anecdotal evidence" without that saying much about Sweden at all?

113 What, me worry?  Sun, Sep 19, 2010 10:08:31am

re: #112 oslogin

I don't know if I would call Sweden a small country. Out of 223 countries and territories in the world, it ranks as number 88.

Anyway, there is anti-Semitism in Sweden, and since we're painting broadly here; it can be divided into roughly four kinds of anti-Semitism.

1) Old-fashioned anti-Semitism of the "Europe in the 1920s"-kind. Disgusting cultural phenomenons don't always die easy, and as a neutral country during WWII Sweden never really had the confrontation against Jew-hatred seen in other European countries.

2) Anti-Semitism from the extreme left, generally tied to anti-Israeli ideas.

3) Anti-Semitism from the extreme right. One wonders where they picked up the idea.

4) Muslim anti-Semitism, inspired by classical Islamic anti-Semitism and more importantly by modern-day anti-Semitism in the socalled Muslim world (and obviously, far from all Muslims are anti-Semitic).

Now, can you imagine any Swedes falling outside those categories? Can you imagine that the combination of 1, 2, 3 and 4 might lead to some (undoubtably nasty) "anecdotal evidence" without that saying much about Sweden at all?

If you're still around... my question is, in these cities where anti-Semitism has taken a big spike, why isn't the government doing more to crack down, stop, arrest those who are defacing property or tormenting the Jewish residents there? Are Sweden's nationalist parties, such as the Sweden Democrats, influencing others to not help the Jews? If Sweden is going to let its Jews be hassled, it's going to get the moniker of anti-Semitic. Same as if we, the U.S., do not stand up and support the right of all people, particularly Muslims to practice their faith, if we let Geller and Spencer spin the discourse as they want, we will be perceived as an Islamophobic nation. And I hate to say it, but rightly so.

114 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 20, 2010 1:32:55am

re: #111 marjoriemoon

So yea, if anti-Semitism is rising in the 3 cities where most of the Jews are, it's safe to say that Sweden is anti-Semitic at worst, or just don't care at best.

But it's not. It's rising in one city.

115 Øyvind Strømmen  Tue, Sep 21, 2010 6:42:25am

re: #113 marjoriemoon

If you're still around... my question is, in these cities where anti-Semitism has taken a big spike, why isn't the government doing more to crack down, stop, arrest those who are defacing property or tormenting the Jewish residents there?

My impression is that Sweden's conservative government (which probably will remain in government, although they no longer carry a majority) is worried about anti-Semitism and that it is doing quite a bit to fight it.

Of course, one can always criticise them for not doing enough.

The nationalist groups (and the far left) which harbour political anti-Semitism have as little influence in Sweden as they have in the U.S; possibly less.

The Sweden Democrats pretend not to be anti-Semitic - and many of their members are probably to busy peddling anti-Islamic thinking to have time for hating Jews. Until the recent election, they had no influence whatsoever. Now, they're in parliament, but all other parties thus far refuse to have anything to do with them. Due to this, the conservatives are openly flirting with the Greens.


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