Christine O’Donnell on the Establishment Clause: ‘You’re Telling Me That’s in the First Amendment?

Yesterday, in a debate at Widener University Law School before an audience of legal scholars and law students, Christine O’Donnell reiterated her position that local public schools should teach young earth creationism in science classes.

Which is bad enough.

But in trying to support her ludicrous anti-science position, O’Donnell revealed her shocking ignorance of the US Constitution.

O’Donnell criticized Democratic nominee Chris Coons’ position that teaching creationism in public school would violate the First Amendment by promoting religious doctrine.

Coons said private and parochial schools are free to teach creationism but that “religious doctrine doesn’t belong in our public schools.”

Where in the Constitution is the separation of church and state?” O’Donnell asked him.

When Coons responded that the First Amendment bars Congress from making laws respecting the establishment of religion, O’Donnell asked: “You’re telling me that’s in the First Amendment?

Her comments, in a debate aired on radio station WDEL, generated a buzz in the audience.

“You actually audibly heard the crowd gasp,” Widener University political scientist Wesley Leckrone said after the debate, adding that it raised questions about O’Donnell’s grasp of the Constitution.

Ya think?

This is what happens when a person is raised by religious fanatics to believe nonsense, and this disturbing ignorance is by no means unique in the modern GOP; in fact, it’s nearly universal.

Jump to bottom

179 comments

1 sffilk  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:16:29am

WOW!

2 bluewater  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:16:53am

Even dumber than I thought

3 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:17:07am

The Tea Partiers love the constitution far too much to read it. That would be sacrilege.

4 laZardo  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:17:48am

To conservatives, the Constitution is whatever they want it to be so long as it fits their narrow-minded ultrareligious views of reality in general. And that’s a fact.

With that, I’m headed to bed. Nighty.

5 Romantic Heretic  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:19:09am

I wish I could say I’m surprised.

6 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:20:15am

I hear SNL writers busily scribbling away in the background…

7 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:21:55am

This is a surprise? We have Lizards here, prominent ones, who went their entire adult working lives not understanding how progressive tiered tax brackets work, in spite of being actual taxpayers themselves. They only learned the exact depths of their ignorance a couple of days ago, and discovering that truth hasn’t changed their economic ideology previously formed in ignorance in the slightest. Unthinking automatons, this is what we’re dealing with.

8 Blue Point  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:22:29am

Quote;
“You actually audibly heard the crowd gasp,” Widener University political scientist Wesley Leckrone said after the debate, adding that it raised questions about O’Donnell’s grasp of the Constitution.

I think she has a problem just grasping reality and that is why I want her to keep talking. Some message, eh Sarah?

9 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:23:14am

This is what happens when people believe easily debunked talking points. Most wingnuts are willfully ignorant these days but other have no choice.

10 [deleted]  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:23:19am
11 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:24:24am

This is good… the GOP will still gain the majority, and idiots like this will eliminate themselves from the victory parties…

It’s a win-win.

12 Surabaya Stew  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:24:40am

Question: is Ms. O’Donnell a product of bad homeschooling or bad public schooling? Or is she just willfully ignorant?

13 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:25:02am

re: #7 goddamnedfrank

This is a surprise? We have Lizards here, prominent ones, who went their entire adult working lives not understanding how progressive tiered tax brackets work, in spite of being actual taxpayers themselves. They only learned the exact depths of their ignorance a couple of days ago, and discovering that truth hasn’t changed their economic ideology previously formed in ignorance in the slightest. Unthinking automatons, this is what we’re dealing with.

It happens all the time. Wingnuts no longer understand the left-right political dichotomy because they moved fascists to the left side. They have created an alternate reality.

14 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:25:36am

re: #7 goddamnedfrank

This is a surprise? We have Lizards here, prominent ones, who went their entire adult working lives not understanding how progressive tiered tax brackets work, in spite of being actual taxpayers themselves. They only learned the exact depths of their ignorance a couple of days ago, and discovering that truth hasn’t changed their economic ideology previously formed in ignorance in the slightest. Unthinking automatons, this is what we’re dealing with.

are you ever not taking shots at other lizards?

15 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:27:31am

She is us?

16 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:27:38am

re: #12 Surabaya Stew

Question: is Ms. O’Donnell a product of bad homeschooling or bad public schooling? Or is she just willfully ignorant?

She graduated from Moorestown High School in New Jersey, a public school.

17 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:27:40am

re: #14 Aceofwhat?

are you ever not taking shots at other lizards?

It’s his/her/it’s hobby… no content, but easy to do.

18 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:27:54am

re: #12 Surabaya Stew

You can try to teach people stuff all you want; they have to actually want to learn.

The thing is, this isn’t really even that unusual a mistake by a GOP member. The general behavior of many, many, many GOP officials over the Cordoba House show an ignorance for, if not the text, then the substance of the First Amendment. The Texas school board shows this. All of the states that enact anti-abortion law based on religious beliefs show this.

She said it more stupidly than most, but plenty of other people have demonstrated recently that they have no clue what the first amendment means, or why it’s important.

19 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:28:16am

re: #10 jbevan70

This is ‘pharmmajor’, who apparently thinks he can just sneak back in with a sock puppet account and not be noticed.

20 webevintage  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:28:56am

re: #12 Surabaya Stew

Question: is Ms. O’Donnell a product of bad homeschooling or bad public schooling? Or is she just willfully ignorant?

I vote for forgetting what she learned in school once the test was over and then being willfully ignorant in the present.
I’m finding a lot of folks who are these TeaGOP Party folks unable to admit they are mis-informed when truth and/or reality is pointed out to them.
They prefer their narrative.

21 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:29:04am

re: #17 Walter L. Newton

Image: irony3.jpg

22 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:29:08am

re: #11 Walter L. Newton

This is good… the GOP will still gain the majority, and idiots like this will eliminate themselves from the victory parties…

It’s a win-win.

The entire GOP thinks like this, Walter. Every single major candidate in this election is a creationist.

23 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:30:39am

re: #22 Charles

The entire GOP thinks like this, Walter. Every single major candidate in this election is a creationist.

Not going to stop them from gaining the majority… it’s not an issue with most voters… at least not the ones I talk to up here in rural America.

24 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:31:24am

re: #21 Obdicut

Image: irony3.jpg

No… boring and predictable.

25 Surabaya Stew  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:31:25am

re: #16 Shiplord Kirel

She graduated from Moorestown High School in New Jersey, a public school.

Hmmm, makes sense; she’s probally a little old to be part of the recent revival of the homeschooling movement anyway. Thanks for giving me further doubt over where my (hypothetical) property taxes are going!
:-D

26 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:32:05am

re: #23 Walter L. Newton

Not going to stop them from gaining the majority… it’s not an issue with most voters… at least not the ones I talk to up here in rural America.

And you think that’s a good thing, evidently. Sure, let’s elect the anti-science party. What could possibly go wrong?

27 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:32:27am

re: #12 Surabaya Stew

Question: is Ms. O’Donnell a product of bad homeschooling or bad public schooling? Or is she just willfully ignorant?

Don’t forget all those universities she at least claims to have attended…

28 joest73  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:33:13am

re: #11 Walter L. Newton

This is good… the GOP will still gain the majority, and idiots like this will eliminate themselves from the victory parties…

It’s a win-win.

Exactly. You’ll always have a few bad candidates. Can’t win them all.
I am cautiously optimistic but I expect the dems to not go down fighting. Now they are giving ice cream to high school students for voting…

29 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:33:32am

re: #23 Walter L. Newton

Not going to stop them from gaining the majority… it’s not an issue with most voters… at least not the ones I talk to up here in rural America.

As a Christian and a Republican, i think it’s sad. They either really are creationists and will endanger curricula or they are posing as creationists because they can’t make a strong enough case on actual issues to get votes without pandering to ignorance.

30 harlequinade  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:33:32am

re: #23 Walter L. Newton

Not going to stop them from gaining the majority… it’s not an issue with most voters… at least not the ones I talk to up here in rural America.

This terrifies me more than the stupidity on display by the candidates.

That people will vote, happily, for morons. And that having morons in seats of power is a good thing because… actually, I don’t know what the end of that sentence can be. Why would smart people willing vote for morons?

Dangerous morons with ridiculous ideas?

Is there some secret desire to stop government working for another 2 years?
To spend money on impeachment hearings?
To keep out gay marriage?

I just do not get it.

31 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:33:49am

re: #23 Walter L. Newton


That would be part of the problem, Walter. The anti-science streak in this country is large, and the GOP, instead of confronting it and helping our nation improve, are feeding it, capitalizing on it, rationalizing it, and endorsing it.

This works against the good of our country in so many ways it cannot be counted. We cannot afford to lose our technological and scientific edge, or we will very, very, very quickly slide from our position of power and privilege. And flawed as we are, we are light years, eons, and boatloads better than China or Russia.

32 Surabaya Stew  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:33:56am

re: #18 Obdicut

She said it more stupidly than most, but plenty of other people have demonstrated recently that they have no clue what the first amendment means, or why it’s important.

Depressing, but true. The only silver lining is that unlike other grossly unqualified TP candiates, she actually has no chance of winning.

33 Gus  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:34:17am

Tea baggers are always flapping their gums about the Constitution. Which makes this piece of news, from the GOP/Tea Party candidate Christine O’Donnell, doubly ironic.

34 Decatur Deb  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:34:46am

re: #12 Surabaya Stew

Question: is Ms. O’Donnell a product of bad homeschooling or bad public schooling? Or is she just willfully ignorant?

She was also raised middle-of-the road Catholic, and would not have picked up anti-science nonsense there. Later, she went through an evangelical stage on her way back to a kind of wingnut Catholicism.

35 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:35:41am

re: #28 joest73

Exactly. You’ll always have a few bad candidates. Can’t win them all.
I am cautiously optimistic but I expect the dems to not go down fighting. Now they are giving ice cream to high school students for voting…

The Republicans should be giving out enchiladas to Latinos who don’t vote…

36 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:36:02am

re: #34 Decatur Deb

Maybe she was just channeling Homer Simpson.

37 Gus  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:36:21am

December 2010. Newly formed Republican majority in congress introduces bill to amend the Constitution to nullify the Establishment Clause.

//

38 lawhawk  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:36:39am

re: #16 Shiplord Kirel

Curiously, the Moorestown high school rates very well in NJ. Top 50 in the state (out of more than 600 high schools).

But to not know what is included in the First Amendment? That’s just flat out nuts.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

So many rights in so few words.

And I guess that O’Donnell was looking for words that explicitly say separation of church and state when it is understood that the Establishment Clause does just that - to separate church and state.

I would hope that her opponent uses that gaffe in his campaign ads from now until election day.

It writes itself (in ominous voice over voice):
O’Donnell doesn’t know the Constitution. (cue clip)
Imagine what else she doesn’t know.

39 Gus  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:38:12am

Hey but at least they’ll control spending and cut yer taxes!

/I wonder what kind of magic the GOP will use to fix the global economy.

//

40 Decatur Deb  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:38:15am

re: #36 Obdicut

Maybe she was just channeling Homer Simpson.

I detect the influence of Fr. Sarducci. Has he become a cardinal?

41 KingKenrod  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:38:17am

re: #31 Obdicut

That would be part of the problem, Walter. The anti-science streak in this country is large, and the GOP, instead of confronting it and helping our nation improve, are feeding it, capitalizing on it, rationalizing it, and endorsing it.

This works against the good of our country in so many ways it cannot be counted. We cannot afford to lose our technological and scientific edge, or we will very, very, very quickly slide from our position of power and privilege. And flawed as we are, we are light years, eons, and boatloads better than China or Russia.

A Gallop poll taken a few years ago showed that 38% of Democrats are young earth creationists, and only 17% believed in scientific evolution (no deity necessary). It’s not surprising that politicians are so gutless, there’s very little political risk in being a creationist.

42 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:38:45am

re: #38 lawhawk

Curiously, the Moorestown high school rates very well in NJ. Top 50 in the state (out of more than 600 high schools).

But to not know what is included in the First Amendment? That’s just flat out nuts.

So many rights in so few words.

And I guess that O’Donnell was looking for words that explicitly say separation of church and state when it is understood that the Establishment Clause does just that - to separate church and state.

I would hope that her opponent uses that gaffe in his campaign ads from now until election day.

It writes itself (in ominous voice over voice):
O’Donnell doesn’t know the Constitution. (cue clip)
Imagine what else she doesn’t know.

On the plus side, she can’t have been a very good witch with that pea brain in her noggin, so we have less to fear in that regard//

43 reidr  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:39:10am

pharmmajor was banned? I thought he was a fairly reasonable libertarian type. Must have missed quite a dust-up….

44 Surabaya Stew  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:40:32am

re: #20 webevintage

I vote for forgetting what she learned in school once the test was over and then being willfully ignorant in the present.
I’m finding a lot of folks who are these TeaGOP Party folks unable to admit they are mis-informed when truth and/or reality is pointed out to them.
They prefer their narrative.

And who among us hasn’t forgotten all that they learned in some subjects in High School? The difference is, (I hope) that us Lizards choose to specialize in carears that had nothing to do with subject we ignored! Lord knows that my Biology (and most of) Chemistry fell by the wayside….but my geology and physics have served me well as an architect. What kind of professional would I be if I had ignored them?

(Answer: I’d be as good an Architect as Christine O’Donnell is a politician, methinks!)

45 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:40:49am

re: #41 KingKenrod

A Gallop poll taken a few years ago showed that 38% of Democrats are young earth creationists, and only 17% believed in scientific evolution (no deity necessary). It’s not surprising that politicians are so gutless, there’s very little political risk in being a creationist.

I think you forgot to mention that the Gallup poll found that 60% of Republicans are young earth creationists.

[Link: www.gallup.com…]

Sorry, the magical balance fairy says this doesn’t really balance out.

46 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:41:17am

re: #43 reidr

Turned out to be a tenther, and made a violent threat against someone. (Not a lizard, some public figure). Was also talking about a revolution.

Kinda weird.

47 lawhawk  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:41:30am

Well, this would now begin to explain why I saw those anti-evolution signs on the Penn Turnpike as I was heading back to NJ over the weekend. There’s quite the enclave of creationists/anti-science enthusiasts in that part of PA and NJ.

48 reidr  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:42:18am

re: #46 Obdicut

Turned out to be a tenther, and made a violent threat against someone. (Not a lizard, some public figure). Was also talking about a revolution.

Kinda weird.

Wow. Must’ve been having a really bad day.

49 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:42:53am

re: #46 Obdicut

Turned out to be a tenther, and made a violent threat against someone. (Not a lizard, some public figure). Was also talking about a revolution.

Kinda weird.

Explain “tenther”… thanks?

50 mmnowakjr85  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:42:56am

Long time reader and first time poster here :). Not to be a troll (don’t ban me yet!), but technically the phrase “separation of church and state” appears nowhere in the Constitution, although it’s implied through the establishment clause (and also through other Supreme Court cases, the Treaty of Tripoli, plus a letter Thomas Jefferson wrote to Danbury Baptists, from which the phrase originates).

I think this was an extremely weak and stupid attempt at a “gotcha” moment, (omg bearded marxist doesn’t know his Constitution1!1!1111!!), and I’m sure her cheerleaders over at HotAir will push this narrative, but when you start a debate off by saying you’re the expert on the Constitution, then have to ask what the 14th and 16th amendments are, and then express shock at what the 1st amendment actually says, you’re just asking to be ridiculed and mocked.

51 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:43:47am

re: #50 mmnowakjr85

Yes and no, she seemed generally unaware of what the First Amendment was about.

52 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:44:23am

re: #41 KingKenrod

Oh and one other thing about that poll: it doesn’t actually say that people don’t believe in evolution, but that they don’t believe that humans evolved. And the belief that ‘god guided’ evolution doesn’t equate to ID, but that, somehow, God made sure humans would evolve. It would include a lot of deists.

So there’s hope in that poll, as scary as the numbers are, especially on the GOP side. And no matter what the numbers, it’s still the duty of any patriotic American politician to face down the creationism and attempt to educate their constituents, not egg on their ignorance.

53 comradebillyboy  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:45:05am

We know she is generally ignorant and stupid. She is also uninformed about the official dogma of her very own church (the Roman Catholic Church) which totally accepts big bang cosmology and evolution. Pope Ratzo, her spiritual leader, has written extensively and intelligently about science and society.

54 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:45:17am

re: #49 Walter L. Newton

Here ya go, Walter, no problem!

[Link: lmgtfy.com…]

55 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:45:27am

re: #50 mmnowakjr85

You’re right, that’s the standard religious right line. And it’s blatantly deceptive, of course.

56 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:46:17am

re: #50 mmnowakjr85

Wait, do you mean O’Donnell was trying for the gotcha moment? I can’t really tell.

57 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:46:20am

re: #46 Obdicut

Turned out to be a tenther, and made a violent threat against someone. (Not a lizard, some public figure). Was also talking about a revolution.

Kinda weird.

seriously? yowza.

although…if it were a particularly thorough revolution…we would need to repopulate…hmmm:

General “Buck” Turgidson: Doctor, you mentioned the ratio of ten women to each man. Now, wouldn’t that necessitate the abandonment of the so-called monogamous sexual relationship, I mean, as far as men were concerned?

Dr. Strangelove: Regrettably, yes. But it is, you know, a sacrifice required for the future of the human race. I hasten to add that since each man will be required to do prodigious… service along these lines, the women will have to be selected for their sexual characteristics which will have to be of a highly stimulating nature.

Ambassador de Sadesky: I must confess, you have an astonishingly good idea there, Doctor.

58 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:46:54am

re: #54 Obdicut

Here ya go, Walter, no problem!

[Link: lmgtfy.com…]

Thanks for the link… I thought you knew… sorry to bother you.

59 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:47:23am

re: #50 mmnowakjr85

I think you’re missing that what she was objecting to wasn’t the presence of ‘seperation of church and state’ in the first amendment, but this part:

When Coons responded that the First Amendment bars Congress from making laws respecting the establishment of religion,

Which definitely is in the first amendment.

Did you not read the post?

60 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:47:54am

re: #57 Aceofwhat?

It was pansy-ass. He said there would be a revolution, but he couldn’t let us know the details. It was kinda sad.

61 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:49:28am

And she is bad at theology: her famous statement about how it is wrong to lie, even to the Gestapo about hiding Jews.

The Bible forbids “bearing false witness”, which means the sort of lies or misrepresentation that harm others, which is very different than lying to the Gestapo…

62 Linden Arden  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:50:41am

re: #50 mmnowakjr85

But its a standard conservative tactic in order to force mandatory prayer and Creationism back into public schools.

63 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:51:19am

re: #50 mmnowakjr85

Long time reader and first time poster here :). Not to be a troll (don’t ban me yet!), but technically the phrase “separation of church and state” appears nowhere in the Constitution, although it’s implied through the establishment clause (and also through other Supreme Court cases, the Treaty of Tripoli, plus a letter Thomas Jefferson wrote to Danbury Baptists, from which the phrase originates).

In other words, it’s shorthand. Yes. We know. The proper reply to someone making that silly ‘nowhere in the Constitution’ claim is: “The absence of the shorthand does not allow you to pretend that the text to which the shorthand refers is magically invalid or invisible.”

64 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:52:03am

re: #60 Obdicut

It was pansy-ass. He said there would be a revolution, but he couldn’t let us know the details. It was kinda sad.

well, that sucks. the details are the best part of the revolution. the uniforms, the titles, the repopulation…that’s the fun part/

65 mmnowakjr85  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:52:10am

re: #59 Obdicut

Oh i read the post, and I’m not defending what she said, but I think she was trying to go for a zinger of “haha, separation of church and state isn’t actually written in the Constitution, silly marxist lieberal!” and failed miserably. It’s the same goofy argument that social conservatives use when the War on Christmas starts (and like the displays at Macy’s, it seems to start earlier every year). Fortunately for society, these goofballs have to step out of their FoxNews/FreeRepublic/Hot Air echo chambers at some point, where they get called out on their stupidity with crazy liberal things like logic and evidence.

66 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:52:55am

re: #19 Charles

This is ‘pharmmajor’, who apparently thinks he can just sneak back in with a sock puppet account and not be noticed.

Huh. Must have missed the flounce.

No great loss but still.

67 darthstar  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:53:01am

She probably thought the first amendment was “Thou shalt have no other gods before me.”

68 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:53:58am

re: #64 Aceofwhat?

well, that sucks. the details are the best part of the revolution. the uniforms, the titles, the repopulation…that’s the fun part/

And the marching can be fabulous as well.

69 MinisterO  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:54:15am

re: #7 goddamnedfrank

We have Lizards here, prominent ones, who went their entire adult working lives not understanding how progressive tiered tax brackets work, in spite of being actual taxpayers themselves.

If a family earning $50k per year gets a 3% raise, a family earning 6 times as much, $300k per year, has to get a 3.5% raise to end up with a raise 6 times as large after taxes.

It is dreadfully unfair.

70 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:54:39am

re: #67 darthstar

She probably thought the first amendment was “Thou shalt have no other gods before me.”

even funnier considering that she’s an ex-wiccan!

71 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:55:45am

re: #68 negativ

And the marching can be fabulous as well.

and singing. no self-respecting revolution lacks a selection of good marching songs…

72 darthstar  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:56:04am

re: #70 Aceofwhat?

even funnier considering that she’s an ex-wiccan!

She only did that for the sex on bloody altars.

73 Amory Blaine  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:56:35am

re: #71 Aceofwhat?

and singing. no self-respecting revolution lacks a selection of good marching songs…

The sales of flutes will be through the roof!!!!

74 Amory Blaine  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:57:06am

re: #72 darthstar

She only did that for the sex on bloody altars.

Every 30 days buddy.

75 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:57:14am

re: #72 darthstar

She only did that for the sex on bloody altars.

hard to blame someone for that

76 darthstar  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:57:28am

Amendments that need to be repealed:
1st
14th
17th

Keep going, teabaggers…you’re on a roll!

77 darthstar  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:57:52am

re: #75 Aceofwhat?

hard to blame someone for that

True…I would have done it.

78 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:58:44am

re: #73 Amory Blaine

The sales of flutes will be through the roof!!!

i always found it interesting that such a dainty instrument achieved such a prominent role in battlefield pageantry…

79 Coracle  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:58:58am

re: #76 darthstar

Amendments that need to be repealed:
1st
14th
17th

Keep going, teabaggers…you’re on a roll!

Now that’s constitutional love.
I’ve seen marriages like that.

“I love you just the way you are. Just change this. And this. And this.”

They last a good long time. /

80 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 9:59:36am

re: #78 Aceofwhat?

i always found it interesting that such a dainty instrument achieved such a prominent role in battlefield pageantry…

I think it is because the high-pitched sound carried well over the low rumble of battle

81 Amory Blaine  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:00:23am

Just think, if we get rid of the 5th, how much crime will go down.

Think of the children!!!!!

82 Coracle  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:00:37am

re: #78 Aceofwhat?

i always found it interesting that such a dainty instrument achieved such a prominent role in battlefield pageantry…

Portability.

And - put a poison dart in it and it’s a last minute offense

And - sharpen the bore and it’s a last minute defense.

83 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:01:17am

re: #77 darthstar

True…I would have done it.

Right? If i weren’t a christian, wicca would be high on my list…although i’m a complete mosquito magnet. few things dampen naked moonlit frivolity like becoming someone else’s blood meal.

84 Linden Arden  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:01:32am

re: #76 darthstar

Amendments that need to be repealed:
1st
14th
17th

Keep going, teabaggers…you’re on a roll!

16th (income tax)
5th (Eminent domain)
6th (due process)
4th (right to privacy, illegal search)

I think they only like the 2nd and 10th.

85 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:01:50am

re: #82 Coracle

Portability.

And - put a poison dart in it and it’s a last minute offense

And - sharpen the bore and it’s a last minute defense.


And put the flute players in the front ranks to absorb the enemy’s first volley…

86 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:02:00am

re: #82 Coracle

Portability.

And - put a poison dart in it and it’s a last minute offense

And - sharpen the bore and it’s a last minute defense.

winner

87 Amory Blaine  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:03:22am

re: #85 ralphieboy

And put the flute players in the front ranks to absorb the enemy’s first volley…

Dirty pacifists.

88 Coracle  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:04:27am

re: #84 Linden Arden

16th (income tax)
5th (Eminent domain)
6th (due process)
4th (right to privacy, illegal search)

I think they only like the 2nd and 10th.

“One from Column A, One from Column B”
Dammit, Jim! I’m a Constitution not a chinese restaurant menu!

89 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:04:29am

alrighty. time to go be the skinniest guy in the weight room. a bientôt-

90 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:04:31am

Why does a Scotsman march while playing the bagpipe?

-It’s harder to hit a moving target!

91 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:05:19am

Why do bagpipers march even when they are not being shot at?

-To get away from the infernal racket!

92 KingKenrod  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:05:21am

re: #52 Obdicut

Oh and one other thing about that poll: it doesn’t actually say that people don’t believe in evolution, but that they don’t believe that humans evolved. And the belief that ‘god guided’ evolution doesn’t equate to ID, but that, somehow, God made sure humans would evolve. It would include a lot of deists.

So there’s hope in that poll, as scary as the numbers are, especially on the GOP side. And no matter what the numbers, it’s still the duty of any patriotic American politician to face down the creationism and attempt to educate their constituents, not egg on their ignorance.

Good luck getting politicians to challenge the religious beliefs of their constituents. I just want them to keep it out of science classrooms.

93 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:06:04am

re: #92 KingKenrod

Good luck getting politicians to challenge the religious beliefs of their constituents. I just want them to keep it out of science classrooms.


Which is what the First Amendment is there for…

94 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:08:14am

Warning: If you use condoms, you will NOT be raptured!

* hint: this is technically true.

95 mikefromArlington  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:09:10am

But but, She’s just like me!!!!!

96 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:09:11am

Hot Air has a thread about this story in the Headlines section. The wingnuts are completely stumped as to why a room full of constitutional scholars would find this outrageously stupid.

97 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:09:28am

re: #95 mikefromArlington

But but, She’s just like me!!!

Witch!
/

98 Amory Blaine  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:10:22am

re: #94 negativ

Warning: If you use condoms, you will NOT be raptured!


[Video]* hint: this is technically true.

Wheww!!! I don’t want to be anywhere near that guy.

99 shutdown  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:11:24am

[Link: www.ynetnews.com…]
Fucking hell. I hate Carter so much, I am at a loss for words. So he shows up in an Arab country for his periodic prostate massage, and claims the Palestinians are living in a cage. The Palestinians, whose current territory borders on two states which should have an open border policy with them - Jordan and Egypt. Neither of those countries wants anything to do with the Palestinians, much less Hamas.

Have I mentioned I hate that peanut-growing, Jew-hating, Rapture-awaiting redneck?

100 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:11:44am

re: #96 Killgore Trout

Hot Air has a thread about this story in the Headlines section. The wingnuts are completely stumped as to why a room full of constitutional scholars would find this outrageously stupid.

OK, I’m taking a look at that thread, and already beginning to get a migraine from it. The determined ignorance of that crowd is repulsive.

101 wrenchwench  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:12:31am

re: #96 Killgore Trout

Hot Air has a thread about this story in the Headlines section. The wingnuts are completely stumped as to why a room full of constitutional scholars would find this outrageously stupid.

Were they similarly stumped about why a room full of Hispanics would find it silly that someone thinks they look kind of Asian?

102 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:13:13am

re: #96 Killgore Trout


They are determinedly pretending that all she said was that there isn’t ‘separation of Church and state” in the first amendment, when she both rejected that idea and that there was any phraseology about not establishing religion, either.

103 shutdown  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:14:22am

re: #102 Obdicut

They are determinedly pretending that all she said was that there isn’t ‘separation of Church and state” in the first amendment, when she both rejected that idea and that there was any phraseology about not establishing religion, either.

Tea Bagistan is gonna be a tough place for us social libertarians to live.

104 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:14:26am

re: #99 imp_62

[Link: www.ynetnews.com…]
Fucking hell. I hate Carter so much, I am at a loss for words. So he shows up in an Arab country for his periodic prostate massage, and claims the Palestinians are living in a cage. The Palestinians, whose current territory borders on two states which should have an open border policy with them - Jordan and Egypt. Neither of those countries wants anything to do with the Palestinians, much less Hamas.

Have I mentioned I hate that peanut-growing, Jew-hating, Rapture-awaiting redneck?

Gilad Shalit is the only person in Gaza living in a cage.

105 Gus  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:15:06am

re: #96 Killgore Trout

Hot Air has a thread about this story in the Headlines section. The wingnuts are completely stumped as to why a room full of constitutional scholars would find this outrageously stupid.

At least I found a video.

Christine O’Donnell ignorant of the Constitution (go to 2:37)

106 shutdown  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:15:29am

re: #104 Alouette

Gilad Shalit is the only person in Gaza living in a cage.

I pray the “living” part is even true, any more.

107 Gus  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:16:17am

Watch the whole video. O’Donnell is a super creationist religious nut.

108 subsailor68  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:17:25am

Here’s a campaign commercial that you all might find interesting:

(apologies if it’s already been posted)

Willful Ignorance

(BTW, pay close attention to the part that begins with portraits of Washington and Lincoln. Heh!)

109 shutdown  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:17:57am

re: #105 Gus 802

At least I found a video.

Christine O’Donnell ignorant of the Constitution (go to 2:37)


[Video]

This is all concurrent with, and in preparation for, ongoing efforts on a local level to take over school boards and make sure that American students are incapable of competing in the world marketplace.

110 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:18:47am

re: #107 Gus 802

She gets one amendment partially right.

She’s so patriotic!

111 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:18:54am

re: #107 Gus 802

Watch the whole video. O’Donnell is a super creationist religious nut.

I’m glad we don’t have a religious test for being eligible for office… she would pass with flying colors.

112 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:19:39am

You would think someone who loves the Constitution so much might have at least read it once.

113 Gus  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:19:52am

re: #111 Walter L. Newton

I’m glad we don’t have a religious test for being eligible for office… she would pass with flying colors.

Yes. There’s only one religious test. You have to pass it to be a Republican. She passed.

114 shutdown  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:20:38am

re: #112 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

You would think someone who loves the Constitution so much might have at least read it once.

Love is blind. And apparently, there are no braille versions of the Constitution available.

115 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:20:53am

re: #107 Gus 802

At 6:00 minutes in is the second exchange about separation of church and state.

116 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:21:07am

Maybe she only read the King James version of the Constitution.

117 Gus  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:21:38am

re: #115 Obdicut

At 6:00 minutes in is the second exchange about separation of church and state.

Comes up again at 7:22.

People are laughing at her. Deservedly so.

118 Gus  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:22:43am

She’s a genius!

/

119 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:24:10am

re: #105 Gus 802

At least I found a video.

Christine O’Donnell ignorant of the Constitution (go to 2:37)


[Video]

nice!

120 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:24:20am

re: #117 Gus 802

I wonder if she realizes she’s being laughed at, or if her delusions reach so far as to think that they’re on her side when they laugh.

She is ridiculously unprepared. A moderately bright high school student would do better.

121 Gus  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:25:19am

re: #119 Killgore Trout

nice!

She goes on about intelligent design being science. She non-stop about creationism. Then after calling ID a science she says evolution is “just a theory”.

122 mmnowakjr85  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:25:20am

I would have loved to see the epic fail that would have ensued had Christine been asked if she would repeal the 18th amendment.

123 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:25:21am

re: #118 Gus 802

She’s a genius!

/

She’s at least 50% idiot savant.

124 shutdown  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:25:22am

re: #118 Gus 802

She’s a genius!

/

She is an idiot savant who doesn’t know anything. And showing up at a law school without even a working knowledge of the Constitution simply provides emphasis for what many Tea Baggers are admitting: This election is not about details or knowledge. It is about emotion and enabling the kooky fringe to think of themselves as an oppressed majority.

125 RogueOne  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:26:25am

This is kind of big news:

VFW commander stops PAC cold
[Link: www.politico.com…]


Monday’s actions come in the wake of intense division between VFW members and the PAC board, which endorsed several incumbent candidates — including Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.) and Rep. Ron Klein (D-Fla.) — over more conservative candidates, or in the case of Klein, as opposed to a veteran in GOP nominee Allen West.

In his statement, Eubank said he “disagreed” with the board’s decision not to remove its current endorsements, and he made it clear that the future existence of the PAC is seriously in doubt.

I’m still wondering wtf they were thinking with those 2 endorsements.

126 Gus  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:27:37am

re: #124 imp_62

She is an idiot savant who doesn’t know anything. And showing up at a law school without even a working knowledge of the Constitution simply provides emphasis for what many Tea Baggers are admitting: This election is not about details or knowledge. It is about emotion and enabling the kooky fringe to think of themselves as an oppressed majority.

She read it in a magazine. Highlights.

127 Blue Point  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:28:01am

re: #91 ralphieboy
What’s the difference between an accordion and a concertina?
Accordions take longer to burn.

128 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:28:15am

But don’t forget, Rush said strong conservative values and patriotism would be able to overcome Coon’s double digit lead over O’Donnell.

If it doesn’t, then it proves the people of Delaware are all godless commie pinkos who hate America.
/

129 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:28:16am

re: #121 Gus 802

She goes on about intelligent design being science. She non-stop about creationism. Then after calling ID a science she says evolution is “just a theory”.

It’s amazing to see that level of ignorance on display. She has no idea what she’s talking about on any level.

130 Coracle  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:28:18am

re: #125 RogueOne

This is kind of big news:

VFW commander stops PAC cold
[Link: www.politico.com…]

I’m still wondering wtf they were thinking with those 2 endorsements.

Probably that the Democrats don’t think the socialized medicine of the VA is a bad idea.

131 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:28:46am

re: #125 RogueOne

This is kind of big news:

VFW commander stops PAC cold
[Link: www.politico.com…]

I’m still wondering wtf they were thinking with those 2 endorsements.

The VFW PAC is a separate body, voted into existence by the membership, and the VFW commander and board has not control over whether they exist or not.

132 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:29:00am

re: #127 nines09

What’s the difference between an accordion and a concertina?
Accordions take longer to burn.


What’s the difference betwwen a banjo and a trampoline?

-You are supposed to take your shoes off before jumping on a trampoline.

133 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:29:40am

re: #127 nines09

What’s the difference between an accordion and a concertina?
Accordions take longer to burn.

Not funny… has it ever occurred to you that there may be dedicated accordion players on this blog who you just insulted for no good reason at all?

134 RogueOne  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:30:51am

re: #130 Coracle

Probably that the Democrats don’t think the socialized medicine of the VA is a bad idea.

It’s not the greatest. Slow but it’s effective, sorta.

135 Gus  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:31:06am

re: #129 Killgore Trout

It’s amazing to see that level of ignorance on display. She has no idea what she’s talking about on any level.

She makes everything up on the fly. Even with regards to religion which she presents as some kind of thecon hybrid: i.e. anti masturbation; becoming a virgin after losing one’s virginity; etc.

136 shutdown  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:31:54am

re: #129 Killgore Trout

It’s amazing to see that level of ignorance on display. She has no idea what she’s talking about on any level.

She is the Tea Bagger’s canary in the coal mine. When she finally looks so bug-eyed imbecilic that she endangers public perception of key Tea Bag conservative memes, the Baggers will pass the word along to their more successful candidates to tone things down a bit.

137 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:32:35am

re: #125 RogueOne

Apparently, the PAC’s reasoning was that they were endorsing people who voted on bills that were of benefit to veterans. Since the GOP has been blocking aid to veterans recently, it isn’t at all surprising they’d endorse Democrats.

An eleven member Board of Directors reviews and establishes the criteria used for the endorsement process each election cycle. This cycle the Board chose a methodology for endorsement that was used successfully in years past; grading an incumbent’s support by the position taken on critical issues of importance to the VFW. Therefore, thirteen roll call votes in the House of Representatives and nine votes in the Senate that aligned with VFW priority goals were selected to grade the support of incumbent members of Congress. The bar was set high, as a Senator must have voted in concert with the VFW position on 7 of 9 votes and a Representative 10 of 13 to receive the VFW-PAC endorsement. If a member of Congress failed to make the grade, the Board would consider a challenger for that Congressional seat. The Board would also consider candidates running for open seats. Both challengers and open seat candidates would have to state in writing their position on VFW priority goals.

138 RogueOne  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:32:42am

Off to work. Get back at it people!

139 scienceisreal  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:33:21am

The Onion had a great piece regarding this trend in Constitutional knowledge, Area Man Passionate Defender Of What He Imagines Constitution To Be

140 RogueOne  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:34:13am

re: #137 Obdicut

They chose boxer, someone who spent 20 years in the senate before finding out military personnel call their superiors “sir” and “ma’am”, and they chose a nobody to a medaled military commander. Not smart.

141 shutdown  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:35:02am

bbl

142 lostlakehiker  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:35:41am

re: #2 bluewater

Even dumber than I thought

You failed to grasp the enormity of her fail. When I saw her on TV try, and try, to say that so-and-so was just making things worse, but try to say it using a fancy word she must have heard once somewhere, (exacerbate), and finally seize it from the back reaches of her cloudy memory, ta-dah! exasperate, and then use the same wrong word twice, it was like a light bulb went off for me: she’s pretty low wattage.

To be fair, that’s low wattage by the standard of who runs for Senate. In ordinary daily life, she’s probably brighter than 50 or 60 percent of the rest of the folks in the aisle at the supermarket.

Leaders, though, really ought to have more than the ability to get from the produce corner over to the dairy products. They ought to have some clue as to the general tone of the constitution and the main high notes. They ought to know something about history, geography, and so on. If they don’t know any science, would it be too much to ask that they at least know that they know nothing about it?

143 Jerk  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:36:45am

re: #38 lawhawk

Curiously, the Moorestown high school rates very well in NJ. Top 50 in the state (out of more than 600 high schools).

My friend lives a few houses down from her former home in Moorestown, NJ and is a completely sane human being. O’Donnell got crazier later in life, I think.

144 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:36:56am

re: #140 RogueOne

They chose boxer, someone who spent 20 years in the senate before finding out military personnel call their superiors “sir” and “ma’am”, and they chose a nobody to a medaled military commander. Not smart.

Again: They based their endorsements on the formula they’ve used int he past: actual votes on bills benefiting veterans.

Not whether or not a civilian knows military terminology.

Kind of makes sense, don’t it?

145 djcelts  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:37:49am

The really sad thing is that she thinks she made a really good point. “Show me where it says “Separation of Church and State”? You can’t because its not there.”

146 Amory Blaine  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:37:57am

re: #142 lostlakehiker

Humility is frowned upon in certain circles.

147 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:46:56am

re: #23 Walter L. Newton

Not going to stop them from gaining the majority… it’s not an issue with most voters… at least not the ones I talk to up here in rural America.

Hardworking authentic folks.

148 PT Barnum  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:51:56am

re: #140 RogueOne

They chose boxer, someone who spent 20 years in the senate before finding out military personnel call their superiors “sir” and “ma’am”, and they chose a nobody to a medaled military commander. Not smart.

Allen West has other problems..

149 Stephen T.  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:06:39am

Her staff will spin this. Her question is “Where in the Constitution is the separation of Church and State?” I’ve heard many a conservative ask this in seeming ignorance and then lash back with the exact wording of the First Amendment: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.” Pointing out that the words “Separation of Church and State” are not in the First Amendment or any where else in the Constitution. She’ll go on record claiming that she one the point by showing everyone’s ignorance of the “real” Constitution by not knowing that the Establishment clause doesn’t contain that explicit language.

150 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:08:48am

re: #145 djcelts

The really sad thing is that she thinks she made a really good point. “Show me where it says “Separation of Church and State”? You can’t because its not there.”

Not uncommon. I’ve dealt with an amazing number of people who think they’re being clever trying to trap the liberal into saying those exact words are in there. At least she didn’t say the phrase was from the Communist Manifesto.

151 reidr  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:15:22am

re: #144 Obdicut

Again: They based their endorsements on the formula they’ve used int he past: actual votes on bills benefiting veterans.

Not whether or not a civilian knows military terminology.

Kind of makes sense, don’t it?

Yes. My hunch is that the Democrats are generally much better about things like funding the VA and taking care of vets but that they never get the credit for it. Sadly, memes like “Democrat = weak on defense” and “military issues = Republican strength” seem to drown it out. (It’s still just a hunch, so someone can correct me if I’m wrong….)

152 Sinistershade  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:15:45am

re: #147 SanFranciscoZionist

Hardworking authentic folks.

These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know …

153 CuriousLurker  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:27:34am

re: #105 Gus 802

At least I found a video.

Christine O’Donnell ignorant of the Constitution (go to 2:37)
[Video]

This woman blindingly stupid. Or incredibly arrogant. Or she knows it doesn’t really matter to her base. Or all of the above.

How do you show up at a debate representing a party that supposedly venerates the Constitution totally unprepared? If I were in her position would have studied until my eyes bled for fear that I’d make a fool of myself.

154 CuriousLurker  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:32:37am

Aw, man, the thread went dead when I wasn’t looking. Oh, well.

155 reidr  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:35:04am

re: #154 CuriousLurker

Aw, man, the thread went dead when I wasn’t looking. Oh, well.

There there, I dinged you….

156 lostlakehiker  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:35:28am

re: #30 harlequinade

This terrifies me more than the stupidity on display by the candidates.

That people will vote, happily, for morons. And that having morons in seats of power is a good thing because… actually, I don’t know what the end of that sentence can be. Why would smart people willing vote for morons?

Dangerous morons with ridiculous ideas?

Is there some secret desire to stop government working for another 2 years?
To spend money on impeachment hearings?
To keep out gay marriage?

I just do not get it.

The Congress has passed, and the President has signed, legislation that Republicans believe will be bad for the country, and in particular, bad for themselves. What’s not to get? They want it suspended, blocked, rescinded, or modified.

Insurance companies across the nation are ceasing to offer coverage in various categories, for the simple reason that under the laws now coming into force, there is no way they can break even on that coverage at any price they will be permitted to charge. Democrats are fine with that; the laws are not going to be modified in the face of reality unless Democrats lose enough contests to force a reappraisal.

The national debt is soaring, and commodity prices are soaring. There’s an inverse relation between the amount of paper a nation prints and the buying power of each scrap of paper. Republicans want this stopped, Democrats are determined to stay the course. The policy is not going to change unless Democrats lose enough contests to force a reappraisal.

Gay marriage is widely unpopular. On this blog, almost everyone supports it and cannot imagine any reason for opposition. But the recent vote in California illustrates that this is a minority position among the populace at large. Policy on gay marriage is affected by elections and voters in both camps want their own position, rather than the other position, to prevail.

Republicans, on the whole, put the immediate economic needs of the nation ahead of the long term “green” needs. On this issue, I part company with them but if one wants to understand the voting behavior of Republicans, that’s another of their reasons. It’s kind of inconsistent with the whole notion of “conservative”, but in another way it isn’t. Climate change didn’t used to be widely understood to be a problem. A conservative approach to ideas includes not accepting new ones gladly or promptly.

And then there’s religion. Republicans are unhappy with all sorts of stuff here. Why not permit Catholic adoption agencies to help place orphans and unwanted babies? Why not permit Catholic schools to require that teachers set a personal example somewhat consistent with the core values of the church? Why force hospitals to perform elective abortions? Republicans want these policies changed, and they won’t change unless Democrats lose enough contests to force a reappraisal.

That’s why Republicans vote Republican. Some of it is why independents sometimes vote Republican.

157 CuriousLurker  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:36:11am

re: #155 reidr

There there, I dinged you…

Thanks! I feel better now. ;o)

158 American-African  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:37:12am

Clearly we do not need to fear the mice with fully functioning human brains, because we have plenty of humans with fully functioning mouse brains to worry about…

159 reidr  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:48:42am

re: #156 lostlakehiker

Shorter: It’s okay to vote morons into the Senate as long as they’re from my team and will vote my way on the issues. I can understand that, though it’s sad that by voting day that’s your only choice. Will D’s in SC vite for Greene using that logic? You also ignore the extremist views at your peril; can you imagine a Senate with 50 O’Donnells?

160 Romantic Heretic  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:56:24am

re: #61 ralphieboy

And she is bad at theology: her famous statement about how it is wrong to lie, even to the Gestapo about hiding Jews.

The Bible forbids “bearing false witness”, which means the sort of lies or misrepresentation that harm others, which is very different than lying to the Gestapo…

But it does harm the Gestapo. They’ll be unhappy that they didn’t find any Jews that day.

You wouldn’t want the Gestapo to be unhappy, would you? //////

161 Romantic Heretic  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:59:53am

re: #69 MinisterO

If a family earning $50k per year gets a 3% raise, a family earning 6 times as much, $300k per year, has to get a 3.5% raise to end up with a raise 6 times as large after taxes.

It is dreadfully unfair.

I dunno. I think I could get by on $300K a year.

My disability is less than $10K a year. Thirty times as much would be paradise to me.

162 Romantic Heretic  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 12:01:28pm

re: #78 Aceofwhat?

i always found it interesting that such a dainty instrument achieved such a prominent role in battlefield pageantry…

The high notes can be heard over the roar of guns.

163 lostlakehiker  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 1:07:01pm

re: #159 reidr

Shorter: It’s okay to vote morons into the Senate as long as they’re from my team and will vote my way on the issues. I can understand that, though it’s sad that by voting day that’s your only choice. Will D’s in SC vite for Greene using that logic? You also ignore the extremist views at your peril; can you imagine a Senate with 50 O’Donnells?

That’s not what I said. Shorter but still accurate: if you want to understand why Republicans vote Republican, and why independents sometimes as well, you have to look at real issues where Republicans have, or think they have, real points.

As to me, O’Donnell is way too much, or if you like, too little, to bear. She’s simply not up to the job of being Senator.

As to SC Democrats, we shall see. I expect Alvin Greene will get about 30 percent of the vote, about the same share I’m guessing for O’Donnell. Party regulars vote the Party line. Victory goes to the candidate who can win votes they don’t start with just by virtue of having their party’s nomination.

164 lostlakehiker  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 1:09:12pm

re: #23 Walter L. Newton

Not going to stop them from gaining the majority… it’s not an issue with most voters… at least not the ones I talk to up here in rural America.

I’m reminded of marjoriemoon’s downdinged prediction in 2008 that Obama would win. People, please don’t shoot the messenger. The paperboy didn’t bring down the WTC, nor bomb Pearl Harbor, nor crash the market.

165 MinisterO  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 1:10:40pm

re: #161 Romantic Heretic

I dunno. I think I could get by on $300K a year.

I can’t imagine how. After the outpouring of sympathy for that Chicago law professor who blogged about how hard it is to live on $300k per year, I can’t imagine how anybody does it.

166 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 1:21:54pm

re: #14 Aceofwhat?

are you ever not taking shots at other lizards?

Sorry I missed this.

When people hold stupid, clearly and demonstrably wrong beliefs they should be called out on their ignorance. Lizards like you who use children to sell inequality, like Walter who called a female lizard a whore, or those who misrepresented the tax code they’ve paid into their entire adult lives deserve to be confronted. I’m not Rodney King, I don’t wonder why we all can’t get along, because I’ve come to accept the fact that many of the conservative Lizards here are just going to act like perpetual, irredeemable mamzers no matter what.

167 [deleted]  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 1:28:33pm
168 Reginald Perrin  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 1:59:39pm

re: #167 Radical Rafe

For the amazingly low price of ten dollars a month, the ads disappear and this site loads fast as lightning.

169 Reginald Perrin  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 2:13:12pm

re: #167 Radical Rafe

What motivates supposed grown-up to come here and play their silly troll games? I never had pop-ops when I visited LGF, the only ads that loaded were the ones on top and in the side bars.

Go back to Troll Central and tell crazy Ricky Martinez I said hi.

170 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 2:43:08pm

re: #169 Reginald Perrin

No, there was an issue with those popups awhile ago.

171 Reginald Perrin  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 2:56:49pm

re: #170 Obdicut

I know but I managed to take care of it and they stopped

172 ClaudeMonet  Tue, Oct 19, 2010 8:52:29pm

re: #3 Obdicut

The Tea Partiers love the constitution far too much to read it. That would be sacrilege.

You are assuming that Tea Party people can read.

re: #50 mmnowakjr85

“Welcome to the party, pal!”

re: #152 Sinistershade

These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know …

…morons,

Upding for the Blazing Saddles reference.

“Oh baby, you are soooo good…and they are soooo dumb.”

173 [deleted]  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 12:10:21am
174 freetoken  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 12:59:14am

re: #173 Pummy

Which isn’t the point, at all. You’re all tied up in grammar and the lexical choices, not the intent. The intent of the 1st Amendment pretty clearly includes the separation of the state from the religious practices of the society, and it has been interpreted that way from the get go.

175 freetoken  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 1:16:07am

re: #173 Pummy

BTW, do you …

Still despise the residents of NOLA and the victims of Katrina?
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

Still hate homosexuals?
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

176 Gus  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 1:42:39am

re: #173 Pummy

Prick.

177 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 2:30:01am

re: #173 Pummy

Hey, I’d like to introduce you to this weird concept:

In language, you can mean things using different phraseology.

For example, if I say that people have the right to free speech, it can include non-verbal speech, even though it doesn’t explicitly say that.

Isn’t that neat?

178 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 2:33:53am

re: #173 Pummy

I’m also really confused how you came to the conclusion that we’re ‘totally unaware’ of that point when we’ve been discussing that exact point at length.

I guess you just didn’t actually read the thread, or you ‘read’ it in the same way O’Donnell read the Constitution.

179 Radical Rafe  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:29:58pm

re: #169 Reginald Perrin

Go fuck yourself.


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