The GOP War on Science: Record Number of Creationism Bills Introduced in 2011

Ignorant and proud of it
Wingnuts • Views: 25,695

What the GOP is doing since taking over the House of Representatives:

  • Launching an all-out war against women’s reproductive rights
  • Launching an all-out war against unions
  • Launching an all-out war against organizations and scientists that study climate change

And now, we can add:

  • Launching an all-out war against the science of evolution

Record Number of Stealth Creationism Bills Introduced in 2011.

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410 comments
1 Targetpractice  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 6:37:38pm

Number of bills intended to create jobs: 0

Yeah, they really learned their lesson last November. *rolls eyes*

2 jaunte  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 6:39:36pm

Texas’ HB 2454

“PROHIBITION OF DISCRIMINATION BASED ON RESEARCH RELATED TO INTELLIGENT DESIGN. An institution of higher education may not discriminate against or penalize in any manner, especially with regard to employment or academic support, a faculty member or student based on the faculty member’s or student’s conduct of research relating to the theory of intelligent design or other alternate theories of the origination and development of organisms.”


I’d like to see what the Texas Lege defines as “research” in this area.

3 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 6:40:37pm

re: #1 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Number of bills intended to create jobs: 0

Yeah, they really learned their lesson last November. *rolls eyes*

Keep taxes and regulation low and you’ll promote job growth. Cutting wasteful spending can help as well be restoring confidence in government.

4 teleskiguy  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 6:41:22pm

”’I believe God created me in one day!’ Looks like He rushed it.”
-Bill Hicks 1961-1994

5 Targetpractice  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 6:41:49pm

re: #3 Dark_Falcon

Keep taxes and regulation low and you’ll promote job growth. Cutting wasteful spending can help as well be restoring confidence in government.

Thank you, President Reagan.

6 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 6:42:56pm

*Sigh*
My potential employee pool is shrinking. :(

re: #3 Dark_Falcon

Keep taxes and regulation low and you’ll promote job growth. Cutting wasteful spending can help as well be restoring confidence in government.

Evidence?

7 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 6:43:44pm

re: #5 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Thank you, President Reagan.

I wish I was a well-spoken and confident as he was. He was a great president.

8 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 6:44:27pm

re: #6 prononymous

*Sigh*
My potential employee pool is shrinking. :(

Evidence?

John Galt! Konstitution! Tee Partay!

9 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 6:45:11pm

re: #7 Dark_Falcon

I wish I was a well-spoken and confident as he was. He was a great president.

He was ok, I guess. He lost me on Iran Contra.

10 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 6:46:13pm

re: #8 Killgore Trout

John Galt! Konstitution! Tee Partay!

You know better than that, Killgore.

11 albusteve  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 6:47:28pm

I stand up for the gays….that particularly pisses me off

12 Kragar  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 6:49:08pm

It ain’t the economy.

13 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 6:50:20pm

re: #12 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

It ain’t the economy.

I’d argue that biotech, renewable energy, etc are the future of the economy.

14 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 6:51:24pm

re: #3 Dark_Falcon

Keep taxes and regulation low and you’ll promote job growth. Cutting wasteful spending can help as well be restoring confidence in government.

So, you’re telling me that as they see it, their only job is to avoid taxing or regulating the Great God Commerce, and hope something good happens this time?

No wonder they have so much time to sit around worrying about how to shave a couple million here and there off of Head Start.

15 albusteve  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 6:52:11pm

academic mysticism
totem poles
rosary beads
voodoo dolls
wafers and grape juice
Mary Baker Eddy
etc

16 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 6:53:32pm

re: #10 Dark_Falcon

You know better than that, Killgore.

Not really. I’ve soured on fiscal conservatism. “Smaller government” is just a pretense for eliminating programs that promote science, education, help the poor etc. “Lower taxes” is really about helping the wealthy, raising the deficit, and shifting the tax burden down the economic ladder. It’s all a myth.

17 Linden Arden  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 6:55:03pm

re: #3 Dark_Falcon

Keep taxes and regulation low and you’ll promote job growth. Cutting wasteful spending can help as well be restoring confidence in government.

Why should we let banks gamble billions in deposits with taxpayer insured FDIC insurance?

18 aagcobb  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 6:55:17pm

re: #3 Dark_Falcon

Keep taxes and regulation low and you’ll promote job growth. Cutting wasteful spending can help as well be restoring confidence in government.

“wasteful spending” such as Pell grants, tsunami research, and Planned Parenthood?

19 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 6:55:48pm

Well my wife told me my mother is coming down for Easter and wanted to know what I’m cooking. I’ve decided to make Cassoulet ala Espana. It looks like a wonderful challenge. I can’t wait to make it.

20 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 6:55:52pm

re: #16 Killgore Trout

No, it’s not. We’re spending at an unsustainable rate. Republicans are pushing for spending cuts now, because they need to do it while they have political momentum. If they wait till later, the public is liable to forget the imperative of spending reduction.

21 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 6:56:05pm

The music stuck in my head…..
Zelbess

Youtube Video
22 Kragar  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 6:56:33pm

re: #13 prononymous

I’d argue that biotech, renewable energy, etc are the future of the economy.

The politicians love to say they’re doing it for the economy.

23 albusteve  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 6:56:49pm

re: #18 aagcobb

“wasteful spending” such as Pell grants, tsunami research, and Planned Parenthood?

in all fairness, make a short list of wasteful govt spending….or admit nothing of the sort exists

24 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 6:56:56pm

re: #16 Killgore Trout

Not really. I’ve soured on fiscal conservatism. “Smaller government” is just a pretense for eliminating programs that promote science, education, help the poor etc. “Lower taxes” is really about helping the wealthy, raising the deficit, and shifting the tax burden down the economic ladder. It’s all a myth.

Quite an evolution for a libertarian! (If I’m not mistaken about you being a libertarian.)

25 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 6:57:00pm

re: #19 NJDhockeyfan

Well my wife told me my mother is coming down for Easter and wanted to know what I’m cooking. I’ve decided to make Cassoulet ala Espana. It looks like a wonderful challenge. I can’t wait to make it.

That looks darn good.

26 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 6:58:11pm

re: #17 Linden Arden

Why should we let banks gamble billions in deposits with taxpayer insured FDIC insurance?

Where did that come from? Banks take it deposits and use the money to make more money for themselves in exchange for paying out interest.

27 Interesting Times  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 6:58:24pm

re: #23 albusteve

in all fairness, make a short list of wasteful govt spending…

Oil subsidies, corporate welfare and weapon systems the actual department of defense doesn’t want.

28 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 6:59:13pm

re: #20 Dark_Falcon

No, it’s not. We’re spending at an unsustainable rate. Republicans are pushing for spending cuts now, because they need to do it while they have political momentum. If they wait till later, the public is liable to forget the imperative of spending reduction.

And they will simultaneously try to cut taxes. If you are worried about the debit, does that sound like a good idea?

I’d argue that we should reduce the level of government spending AND raise taxes.

29 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:00:20pm

re: #20 Dark_Falcon

No, it’s not. We’re spending at an unsustainable rate. Republicans are pushing for spending cuts now, because they need to do it while they have political momentum. If they wait till later, the public is liable to forget the imperative of spending reduction.

Sorry, but extending the tax cuts for the wealthy increases the deficit. Healthcare reform reduces the deficit yet is denounced as socialism. Stimulus and TARP saved the country from economic ruin, that’s not hyperbole, it’s fact.

I just don’t see the republicans as being serious about economic matters.

30 Targetpractice  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:01:06pm

re: #20 Dark_Falcon

No, it’s not. We’re spending at an unsustainable rate. Republicans are pushing for spending cuts now, because they need to do it while they have political momentum. If they wait till later, the public is liable to forget the imperative of spending reduction.

What the Republicans are doing is using their momentary good fortune to push their socially conservative ideology as “cost cutting” measures. They have no problem with giving money to the oil companies, but think funding Planned Parenthood is simply “unsustainable.”

31 Achilles Tang  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:01:17pm

re: #20 Dark_Falcon

No, it’s not. We’re spending at an unsustainable rate. Republicans are pushing for spending cuts now, because they need to do it while they have political momentum. If they wait till later, the public is liable to forget the imperative of spending reduction.

I don’t think the public will forget that in a hurry.

What they also will not forget (at least if they are Republican) is what they don’t know; which is that ignoring investment for the future is just as foolhardy.

Only Tea Baggers see the universe in black and white and 4 year cycles.

32 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:01:44pm

re: #29 Killgore Trout

Sorry, but extending the tax cuts for the wealthy increases the deficit. Healthcare reform reduces the deficit yet is denounced as socialism. Stimulus and TARP saved the country from economic ruin, that’s not hyperbole, it’s fact.

I just don’t see the republicans as being serious about economic matters.

TARP was a Republican idea. But that was then…

33 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:02:33pm

re: #24 Sergey Romanov

Quite an evolution for a libertarian! (If I’m not mistaken about you being a libertarian.)

Sort of. Unfortunately “libertarianism” has been hijacked by nuts. I’m more of a classical liberal. I’m also a little bit more Zen than Stoic but both are fine.

34 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:02:46pm

re: #30 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

What the Republicans are doing is using their momentary good fortune to push their socially conservative ideology as “cost cutting” measures. They have no problem with giving money to the oil companies, but think funding Planned Parenthood is simply “unsustainable.”

That’s my concern. It’s like a kid redoing his parents’ budget so that no more money is ‘wasted’ on the foods he doesn’t like. When they come up with examples of waste, it mysteriously tends to be fairly cheap things they have a social vendetta against.

35 Interesting Times  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:03:10pm

re: #20 Dark_Falcon

No, it’s not. We’re spending at an unsustainable rate given that taxes are the lowest they’ve been in decades. Republicans are pushing for spending cuts gutting women’s reproductive rights, science, and social programs now, because they need to do it while they have political momentum. If they wait till later, the public is liable to forget the imperative of spending reduction actually realize how badly they’re being screwed over.

Fixed.

36 Linden Arden  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:04:18pm

re: #26 Dark_Falcon

Where did that come from? Banks take it deposits and use the money to make more money for themselves in exchange for paying out interest.


Because banks today are interested in leverage only.

They have no interest in yield now.

37 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:04:22pm

re: #29 Killgore Trout

Sorry, but extending the tax cuts for the wealthy increases the deficit. Healthcare reform reduces the deficit yet is denounced as socialism. Stimulus and TARP saved the country from economic ruin, that’s not hyperbole, it’s fact.

I just don’t see the republicans as being serious about economic matters.

“Health care reform” is going to raise the deficit. Given the gimmicks written into it, its planned funding needs are sure to be revealed as serious underestimates. They’re also the matter of forcing people to buy something as it does, which may well be unconstitutional.

38 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:04:24pm

re: #32 Sergey Romanov

TARP was a Republican idea. But that was then…

They would have been smart to stick to it, own it and take credit. The idiots decided Ron Paul and the Tea Party was the wave of the future and fucked themselves.

39 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:05:03pm

re: #36 Linden Arden

Because banks today are interested in leverage only.

They have no interest in yield now.

Evidence?

40 prairiefire  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:05:05pm

re: #16 Killgore Trout

Not really. I’ve soured on fiscal conservatism. “Smaller government” is just a pretense for eliminating programs that promote science, education, help the poor etc. “Lower taxes” is really about helping the wealthy, raising the deficit, and shifting the tax burden down the economic ladder. It’s all a myth.

Thousands of independents are coming to this same conclusion.

41 albusteve  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:05:32pm

re: #27 publicityStunted

Oil subsidies, corporate welfare and weapon systems the actual department of defense doesn’t want.

good start….imo, Jabba the Fed is a bloated, wasteful, piggy bank of money that is spent unwisely and usually without oversight….aside from discretionary spending, the govt needs to clean up it’s act….too many perks and favors

42 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:05:48pm

re: #38 Killgore Trout

They would have been smart to stick to it, own it and take credit. The idiots decided Ron Paul and the Tea Party was the wave of the future and fucked themselves.

Indeed. They could’ve spun it somewhat credibly into “WE saved the economy”. But Bush is already abandoned as a liberal.

43 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:06:07pm

re: #37 Dark_Falcon

“Health care reform” is going to raise the deficit. Given the gimmicks written into it, its planned funding needs are sure to be revealed as serious underestimates. They’re also the matter of forcing people to buy something as it does, which may well be unconstitutional.

Yes, Michelle Bachmann and the Cato Institute are bleating about that. Like I said, I don;t take them seriously.

44 albusteve  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:06:25pm

re: #29 Killgore Trout

Sorry, but extending the tax cuts for the wealthy increases the deficit. Healthcare reform reduces the deficit yet is denounced as socialism. Stimulus and TARP saved the country from economic ruin, that’s not hyperbole, it’s fact.

I just don’t see the republicans as being serious about economic matters.

pass the bong

45 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:06:52pm

re: #44 albusteve

pass the bong

Ok.

46 Targetpractice  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:07:19pm

re: #34 SanFranciscoZionist

That’s my concern. It’s like a kid redoing his parents’ budget so that no more money is ‘wasted’ on the foods he doesn’t like. When they come up with examples of waste, it mysteriously tends to be fairly cheap things they have a social vendetta against.

Yep. At the same time, they dare not call for serious reform to Social Security or Medicare, or admit out loud that they wish to see both done away with. Why? Because their base is aging and believes that they are entitled to that spending. And none dares voice the reality that we need a serious review of defense spending.

47 sagehen  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:07:22pm

re: #20 Dark_Falcon

No, it’s not. We’re spending at an unsustainable rate. Republicans are pushing for spending cuts now, because they need to do it while they have political momentum. If they wait till later, the public is liable to forget the imperative of spending reduction.

It’s only “unsustainable” because taxes (personal rates, corporate rates, share of GDP, any metric you care to name) are at their lowest rate since WWII, by a pretty wide margin.

48 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:07:27pm

re: #44 albusteve

pass the bong

What’s the point… brookly will harsh the mellow anyway.

49 Achilles Tang  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:08:11pm

re: #26 Dark_Falcon

Where did that come from? Banks take it deposits and use the money to make more money for themselves in exchange for paying out interest.

In simple theory. I’m not in banking, but I believe that at least now their main profits are from fees for looking after other people’s money. In other words, if you don’t keep a minimum amount, without interest, for them to use, they will charge you even more to loan them the money.

Then there is the issue of how they chose to make “more” money for themselves with that money.

50 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:09:36pm

re: #25 SanFranciscoZionist

That looks darn good.

I saw Anthony Bourdain make it on his Cleveland episode and I’ve been itching to make it. Now I have an excuse. I hope I can find all the ingredients down here in Virginia.

51 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:10:06pm

re: #6 prononymous

*Sigh*
My potential employee pool is shrinking. :(
Evidence?

There the rub, isn’t it?

Where is a documented case of reduced taxes and regulations resulting in benefits greater than costs that cannot be equally attributed to other events?

52 albusteve  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:10:17pm

re: #45 prononymous

Ok.

aaahh, thanks
these economic arguments make me want to lighten the vibe

53 sagehen  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:10:35pm

re: #32 Sergey Romanov

TARP was a Republican idea. But that was then…

So was the individual mandate for health insurance; in the mid-90’s it was developed and promoted by the Heritage Foundation. Then Mitt Romney picked it up to use for Massachussetts.

Now, of course, it’s an unbearable infringement on our liberties and the tree must be watered by death panels or something.

54 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:10:36pm

I’m just not seeing any indication that the current Congress is particularly willing or able to actually improve the economy. I do see a bunch of people who think corporate welfare and tax cuts are sacred (and therefore, never have to pass a test of effectiveness), and want to pretend that gutting the budget of social programs they don’t like is cost-cutting. This is, I suspect, gonna turn out to be largely useless all the way around.

55 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:11:14pm

re: #50 NJDhockeyfan

I saw Anthony Bourdain make it on his Cleveland episode and I’ve been itching to make it. Now I have an excuse. I hope I can find all the ingredients down here in Virginia.

You can get anything off the Internet. Godspeed.

56 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:11:26pm

re: #7 Dark_Falcon

I wish I was a well-spoken and confident as he was. He was a great president.

He was a great speaker. That doesn’t equate to ability.

What did he do that made him better than a run of the mill POTUS.

57 albusteve  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:11:27pm

re: #48 Sergey Romanov

What’s the point… brookly will harsh the mellow anyway.

that’s up to you….rise above it
people say stupid things and I still like them

58 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:11:45pm

re: #48 Sergey Romanov

What’s the point… brookly will harsh the mellow anyway.

Brookly has nothing on earth’s angry crust. :(

59 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:13:04pm

re: #53 sagehen

Now, of course, it’s an unbearable infringement on our liberties and the tree must be watered by death panels or something.


Hahaa, good one.

60 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:13:39pm

re: #44 albusteve

pass the bong

Image: kcAXD.jpg

61 Targetpractice  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:13:57pm

re: #54 SanFranciscoZionist

I’m just not seeing any indication that the current Congress is particularly willing or able to actually improve the economy. I do see a bunch of people who think corporate welfare and tax cuts are sacred (and therefore, never have to pass a test of effectiveness), and want to pretend that gutting the budget of social programs they don’t like is cost-cutting. This is, I suspect, gonna turn out to be largely useless all the way around.

I’m pretty convinced by this point that the GOP is simply planning to wait out this year and the next, gambling on things staying the same or getting worse between now and the election. They’re limiting their moves to small ones, with the logic that if they bear fruit, they can plow them into votes next year. And if they fail, they can sweep them under the rug and act as though they never happened.

62 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:15:00pm

re: #14 SanFranciscoZionist

So, you’re telling me that as they see it, their only job is to avoid taxing or regulating the Great God Commerce, and hope something good happens this time?

No wonder they have so much time to sit around worrying about how to shave a couple million here and there off of Head Start.

‘Reduce wasteful spending’ is an empty emotional phrase that is used to mollify the masses.

63 albusteve  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:15:31pm

re: #60 Killgore Trout

Image: kcAXD.jpg

aaah….sweet Jamaica, the Emerald Island

64 RadicalModerate  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:15:35pm

re: #2 jaunte

Texas’ HB 2454


I’d like to see what the Texas Lege defines as “research” in this area.

Note on HB2454: This bill is not to force teaching at the grade school level. It is designed to force curriculum and research funding for creationism in Texas state-funded UNIVERSITIES’ Colleges of Natural Sciences -ie they will be required courses in any field that requires Biology-related studies. If this happens, its a safe bet that any peer-reviewed articles that are released from these schools will be absolutely worthless, and places like the University of Texas School of Biological Science (currently one of the top 5 in the nation) will lose certification.

65 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:15:39pm

You’d think the individual mandate would appeal to the people who want to privatize Social Security.

66 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:15:53pm

re: #55 SanFranciscoZionist

You can get anything off the Internet. Godspeed.

I’m going to have to find a butcher around here for the meat. I might have to drive 45 minutes away to find a good one. Planning ahead is going to be important on this meal.

67 albusteve  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:17:48pm

re: #61 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I’m pretty convinced by this point that the GOP is simply planning to wait out this year and the next, gambling on things staying the same or getting worse between now and the election. They’re limiting their moves to small ones, with the logic that if they bear fruit, they can plow them into votes next year. And if they fail, they can sweep them under the rug and act as though they never happened.

get the feeling that you are being used?….there is no righteousness, if one party doesn’t fuck you, the other one will…I have zero confidence in the feds with regard to the economy

68 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:19:24pm

re: #67 albusteve

get the feeling that you are being used?…there is no righteousness, if one party doesn’t fuck you, the other one will…I have zero confidence in the feds with regard to the economy

Nothing you have posted is more truthful than this one. Upding!

69 Achilles Tang  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:19:29pm

re: #37 Dark_Falcon

“Health care reform” is going to raise the deficit. Given the gimmicks written into it, its planned funding needs are sure to be revealed as serious underestimates. They’re also the matter of forcing people to buy something as it does, which may well be unconstitutional.

I’m surprised you make this constitutional argument about buying something you don’t want.

We demand that all property (except those people pray in, but that is a different story) be taxed to pay for police, fire, roads and more. Not every property has a fire or need for police but everyone expects the tax to be paid just in case, or for the right to use the roads that lead to it.

The one thing that is different about health care is that just about everyone is guaranteed to need it at some point. So either they should be expected to pay a share, or the logical alternative is to let them lay where they fall if nobody picks up the tab for them.

70 jamesfirecat  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:19:40pm

This just in, Puzzle Quest (check Steam if you have it) is probably one of the most addictive pattern matching games ever invented and you can buy it for only $10 on steam.

This also just in, for some reason I can’t figure out someone with hand writing a lot like mine pasted a yellow sticky note to my monitor that says “don’t forget to eat” huh….

Anyway back to training my mount!

71 jamesfirecat  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:19:54pm

re: #62 b_sharp

‘Reduce wasteful spending’ is an empty emotional phrase that is used to mollify the masses.

Tastes great, less filling!

72 albusteve  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:20:03pm

re: #66 NJDhockeyfan

I’m going to have to find a butcher around here for the meat. I might have to drive 45 minutes away to find a good one. Planning ahead is going to be important on this meal.

just throw a couple of weenies in there and nobody will know the difference….trust me

73 avanti  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:21:53pm

It may be old news, but here’s a link to a English language feed from Japan :

Japan.

74 Jadespring  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:22:21pm

Evening all. Back from Kirkwall.

75 Kragar  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:22:23pm

re: #72 albusteve

just throw a couple of weenies in there and nobody will know the difference…trust me

Just make sure to bleach the meat to kill the ammonia taste.

76 jaunte  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:22:26pm

re: #64 RadicalModerate

I’m still interested in how they could possibly do ‘research’ if the whole movement is driven by a predetermined result. “Yup, someone designed this!”

77 jamesfirecat  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:22:38pm

re: #37 Dark_Falcon

“Health care reform” is going to raise the deficit. Given the gimmicks written into it, its planned funding needs are sure to be revealed as serious underestimates. They’re also the matter of forcing people to buy something as it does, which may well be unconstitutional.

Dark don’t drink the Tea Party koolaid on the “may well be unconstitutional thing.

Its just a blanket tax that is being put on everyone, and you get tax credits towards it if you buy item X. If you don’t buy item X you miss out on the credits and pay higher taxes.


That’s what it breaks down to in economic terms doesn’t it?

78 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:23:40pm

re: #72 albusteve

just throw a couple of weenies in there and nobody will know the difference…trust me

I grew up on meat from butcher shops and my mom still gets her meats from a German butcher in Union, NJ. I won’t be able to fool her with Kroger meats.

If I have to drive all the way to Richmond or Washington DC, I will find the right stuff. Determination is high for this mission.

79 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:24:15pm

re: #74 Jadespring

Evening all. Back from Kirkwall.

How’s Kirk doing?

80 albusteve  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:25:37pm

re: #78 NJDhockeyfan

I grew up on meat from butcher shops and my mom still gets her meats from a German butcher in Union, NJ. I won’t be able to fool her with Kroger meats.

If I have to drive all the way to Richmond or Washington DC, I will find the right stuff. Determination is high for this mission.

just remember….if you fail, we will disavow any knowledge of this mission

81 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:26:08pm

re: #20 Dark_Falcon

No, it’s not. We’re spending at an unsustainable rate. Republicans are pushing for spending cuts now, because they need to do it while they have political momentum. If they wait till later, the public is liable to forget the imperative of spending reduction.

A reduction in spending, instead of increasing income during a time when companies are not spending money, but hording it, and unemployment is at a debilitating level is a fools game. Decreasing taxes for the wealthy, those same people the right relies on to create jobs, will do nothing but increase their bank accounts. Those people are the same ones moving jobs to Asia.

Are the Repubs actually cutting money from areas that will benefit the country more than it harms it, or are they cutting money from programs based on social bias that may harm the economy more than help?

82 aagcobb  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:26:56pm

re: #77 jamesfirecat

Right, just because you get a home mortgage tax credit doesn’t mean you are being forced to take out a home loan.

83 Targetpractice  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:27:19pm

re: #67 albusteve

get the feeling that you are being used?…there is no righteousness, if one party doesn’t fuck you, the other one will…I have zero confidence in the feds with regard to the economy

I got that feeling a long time back. These days, I’ve begun to understand how the Soviet peasants viewed the Kremlin.

84 Stanghazi  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:27:24pm

re: #58 prononymous

Brookly has nothing on earth’s angry crust. :(

I see Brookly and crust in a sentence and think shit not another pizza thread.

85 Jadespring  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:27:27pm

re: #79 NJDhockeyfan

How’s Kirk doing?

Peachy.

86 albusteve  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:28:58pm

re: #81 b_sharp

A reduction in spending, instead of increasing income during a time when companies are not spending money, but hording it, and unemployment is at a debilitating level is a fools game. Decreasing taxes for the wealthy, those same people the right relies on to create jobs, will do nothing but increase their bank accounts. Those people are the same ones moving jobs to Asia.

Are the Repubs actually cutting money from areas that will benefit the country more than it harms it, or are they cutting money from programs based on social bias that may harm the economy more than help?

it’s all posturing…whatever is done can be undone
what annoys me is every time the feds get into a mess, the taxpayers are accountable, rather than the fat cats up in DC, many of whom benefit from our general suffering

87 austin_blue  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:29:10pm

re: #2 jaunte

Texas’ HB 2454


I’d like to see what the Texas Lege defines as “research” in this area.

Bible study.

88 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:29:46pm

re: #80 albusteve

just remember…if you fail, we will disavow any knowledge of this mission

Failure is not an option! I love pigs & ducks. They must be even better cooking in the same pot.

89 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:30:03pm

re: #37 Dark_Falcon

“Health care reform” is going to raise the deficit. Given the gimmicks written into it, its planned funding needs are sure to be revealed as serious underestimates. They’re also the matter of forcing people to buy something as it does, which may well be unconstitutional.

By your confidence in those declarations I can only assume you’re carefully read the documents associated with the program. Could you explain to a layman how the program will increase the deficit, and what gimmicks have been written into it?

90 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:31:11pm

re: #66 NJDhockeyfan

I’m going to have to find a butcher around here for the meat. I might have to drive 45 minutes away to find a good one. Planning ahead is going to be important on this meal.

What sort of meat are you looking for?

91 albusteve  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:31:30pm

re: #88 NJDhockeyfan

Failure is not an option! I love pigs & ducks. They must be even better cooking in the same pot.

I don’t care for duck, but a pig is the finest edible substance on Earth, except for Beef-O-Roni of course

92 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:32:31pm

re: #88 NJDhockeyfan

Failure is not an option! I love pigs & ducks. They must be even better cooking in the same pot.

Mr. Sheen, is that you?

/

93 albusteve  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:32:38pm

re: #89 b_sharp

By your confidence in those declarations I can only assume you’re carefully read the documents associated with the program. Could you explain to a layman how the program will increase the deficit, and what gimmicks have been written into it?

have to read pass it first, then we’ll know what’s in it…

94 Stanghazi  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:32:57pm

re: #88 NJDhockeyfan

Failure is not an option! I love pigs & ducks. They must be even better cooking in the same pot.

I’ll mail you a Tupperware.

95 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:33:36pm

re: #86 albusteve

it’s all posturing…whatever is done can be undone
what annoys me is every time the feds get into a mess, the taxpayers are accountable, rather than the fat cats up in DC, many of whom benefit from our general suffering

I agree. Who are we going to hold accountable for repealing the Glass–Steagall Act?

96 albusteve  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:34:15pm

re: #95 prononymous

I agree. Who are we going to hold accountable for repealing the Glass–Steagall Act?

never heard of it

97 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:34:39pm

re: #66 NJDhockeyfan

I’m going to have to find a butcher around here for the meat. I might have to drive 45 minutes away to find a good one. Planning ahead is going to be important on this meal.

You mean you don’t have meat on the hoof just wandering in the fields? What kind of a country do you live in?

98 Feline Fearless Leader  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:35:06pm

re: #58 prononymous

Brookly has nothing on earth’s angry crust. :(

Did someone try to put tomato sauce, cheese, and then (heaven forbid) pineapple on it?

99 prairiefire  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:35:07pm

Photo diary from the Wisconsin rally today:[Link: www.dailykos.com…]

100 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:36:02pm

re: #96 albusteve

never heard of it

Read up about it sometime. It is important.

101 albusteve  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:36:46pm

re: #100 prononymous

Read up about it sometime. It is important.

too busy posting about ducks with hooves

102 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:36:49pm

re: #98 oaktree

Did someone try to put tomato sauce, cheese, and then (heaven forbid) pineapple on it?

Didn’t I just say he hasn’t put anything on it yet? Shesh. /

103 sagehen  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:37:18pm

re: #95 prononymous

I agree. Who are we going to hold accountable for repealing the Glass–Steagall Act?

Phil Graham.

104 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:37:48pm

re: #97 b_sharp

You mean you don’t have meat on the hoof just wandering in the fields? What kind of a country do you live in?

Got some cows next door. I had thoughts of filling my freezer the time one of his bulls got lose and wandered in my yard one day.

105 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:38:07pm

re: #96 albusteve

never heard of it

re: #100 prononymous

Read up about it sometime. It is important.

re: #101 albusteve

too busy posting about ducks with hooves

Unfortunately I think this is about par for the course here in America.

106 albusteve  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:38:57pm

re: #105 prononymous

re: #100 prononymous

re: #101 albusteve

Unfortunately I think this is about par for the course here in America.

LOL…AmIdol politics

107 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:39:19pm

re: #103 sagehen

Phil Graham.

When?

108 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:40:41pm

re: #95 prononymous

I agree. Who are we going to hold accountable for repealing the Glass–Steagall Act?

The repeal allowed a great deal of growth in the financial sector. The problems weren’t its repeal, they were with bad decisions made by both the banks and the government. Deregulation did not cause the housing meltdown, nor does fixing the matter require winding the clock back to before 1995-96.

109 Stanghazi  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:41:05pm

re: #99 prairiefire

Photo diary from the Wisconsin rally today:[Link: www.dailykos.com…]

Lol at the Bon Jovi sign!!

“you give Gov a bad name”

“we’ve got to hold on to what we’ve got”

110 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:42:08pm

re: #91 albusteve

I don’t care for duck, but a pig is the finest edible substance on Earth, except for Beef-O-Roni of course

Here is part of the Cleveland episode. The good part starts about 7:00 when they buy & cut up a beautiful piggy then take it home to cook into some wonderful meals including my planned Cassoulet.

Youtube Video
111 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:42:15pm

re: #108 Dark_Falcon

The repeal allowed a great deal of growth in the financial sector. The problems weren’t its repeal, they were with bad decisions made by both the banks and the government. Deregulation did not cause the housing meltdown, nor does fixing the matter require winding the clock back to before 1995-96.

Yes, the problem was bad decisions by the banks and the government. Much of which the repeal of Glass–Steagall made possible.

112 sagehen  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:44:07pm

re: #107 prononymous

When?

In the late days of the Clinton administration.

113 jaunte  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:44:35pm

re: #108 Dark_Falcon

Motley Fool:
Who’s More to Blame: Wall Street or the Repealers of the Glass-Steagall Act?

The repealers of the Glass-Steagall Act really, really screwed things up. Every time you think of the damage Citigroup (NYSE: C) and Bank of America (NYSE: BAC) continue to inflict on our economy, please, think of those lawmakers and clench your fists.

They should not, however, be targeted as more to blame than Wall Street itself. Ambition, instability, and most importantly greed flourished on Wall Street well before Glass-Steagall was canned a decade ago. The act’s enforcement would not have prevented a tremendous amount of our financial fiasco.

For example, the shadow banking system — nonbank lenders like Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers, and the former incarnations of Goldman Sachs (NYSE: GS), and Morgan Stanley (NYSE: MS) — sits at the epicenter of the financial meltdown, yet resides largely outside of Glass-Steagall’s reach. Such joys as 30-to-1 leverage, unfettered risk taking, and the threat of “too big to fail” could — and did — occur with Glass-Steagall in place.

114 APox  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:45:38pm

Roflre: #108 Dark_Falcon

The repeal allowed a great deal of growth in the financial sector. The problems weren’t its repeal, they were with bad decisions made by both the banks and the government. Deregulation did not cause the housing meltdown, nor does fixing the matter require winding the clock back to before 1995-96.

………….. Yes it certainly did cause the meltdown, just as de-regulating the oil industry lead to the wonderful trashing of Florida’s coast line.

And how in the world can you possibly say that Republicans are “cutting spending”? They have focused on the smallest things to cut; college funding, heating for the poor in winter…

They haven’t cut any military spending, there are billions of dollars in subsidies going to oil companies and farmers, some corporations are paying taxes in the single digits… We spent over 4 billion on the most recent tax cut…

What fictional world do you live in where we have been “cutting” anything to make a difference? Oh, I forgot sorry, maybe you are referring to NPR. Great. Country saved.

Give me a fucking break.

115 Four More Tears  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:46:27pm

re: #108 Dark_Falcon

The repeal allowed a great deal of growth in the financial sector. The problems weren’t its repeal, they were with bad decisions made by both the banks and the government. Deregulation did not cause the housing meltdown, nor does fixing the matter require winding the clock back to before 1995-96.

Funny how you see that as winding the clock back, where what we did with that repeal was wind the clock back to the 20’s.

116 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:47:14pm

re: #112 sagehen

In the late days of the Clinton administration.

Doesn’t really feel like a high level of accountability when you can deregulate the financial sector and then leave politics and be hired by an investment firm and make money hand over fist.

117 palomino  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:48:29pm

re: #16 Killgore Trout

Not really. I’ve soured on fiscal conservatism. “Smaller government” is just a pretense for eliminating programs that promote science, education, help the poor etc. “Lower taxes” is really about helping the wealthy, raising the deficit, and shifting the tax burden down the economic ladder. It’s all a myth.

Well said. Forty years of stagnant wage growth for working and middle class Americans back you up.

118 Four More Tears  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:50:15pm

re: #117 palomino

Well said. Forty years of stagnant wage growth for working and middle class Americans back you up.

Ah, can’t you just smell the wonderful odor of capitalism wafting up your nose?

119 webevintage  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:50:28pm

If it has not been mentioned yet, the Frontline show “The Warning” is always a good watch about one of the causes of the financial meltdown:

“We didn’t truly know the dangers of the market, because it was a dark market,” says Brooksley Born, the head of an obscure federal regulatory agency — the Commodity Futures Trading Commission [CFTC] — who not only warned of the potential for economic meltdown in the late 1990s, but also tried to convince the country’s key economic powerbrokers to take actions that could have helped avert the crisis. “They were totally opposed to it,” Born says. “That puzzled me. What was it that was in this market that had to be hidden?”

[Link: www.pbs.org…]

120 prairiefire  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:50:30pm

re: #116 prononymous

Doesn’t really feel like a high level of accountability when you can deregulate the financial sector and then leave politics and be hired by an investment firm and make money hand over fist.

sounds like a filthy whore gaming the system to me.

121 palomino  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:50:39pm

re: #20 Dark_Falcon

No, it’s not. We’re spending at an unsustainable rate. Republicans are pushing for spending cuts now, because they need to do it while they have political momentum. If they wait till later, the public is liable to forget the imperative of spending reduction.

The public is gonna forget that we have $13 trillion in debt? How, mass hypnotism?

122 Kragar  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:50:55pm

re: #115 JasonA

Funny how you see that as winding the clock back, where what we did with that repeal was wind the clock back to the 20’s.

But hey, everyone had a great time in the 20s, right?
///

123 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:53:02pm

re: #120 prairiefire

sounds like a filthy whore gaming the system to me.

Exactly so, IMO. Nor is this unique to Phil Gramm, or conservatives.

124 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:53:31pm

re: #109 Stanley Sea

Lol at the Bon Jovi sign!!

“you give Gov a bad name”

“we’ve got to hold on to what we’ve got”

Youtube Video

And one more:

Youtube Video
125 palomino  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:53:58pm

re: #39 Dark_Falcon

Evidence?

The last 3 years of US history. Have you completely forgotten Lehman, Bear Stearns, Citigroup et al?

126 APox  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:54:40pm

[Link: chipmunk-inc.tumblr.com…]

Watch this video from last night, it was really great….

“Maher: America’s rich aren’t giving you money, they’re taking your money. Between the years 1980 and 2005 80% of all new income generated in this country went to the richest 1%. Let me put that in terms that even you fatass teabaggers, I’m sorry, can understand.

Say 100 Americans get together and order a 100 slice pizza. The pizza arrives and the first guy takes 80 slices. And if someone suggests, why don’t you just take 79 slices, that’s socialism! I know, I know. I know, I know, it’s just a TV show. But it does reinforce the stupid idea people have that rich people would love us and share with us if only they got to walk a mile in our cheap plastic shoes.

But they’re the reason the shoe factory moved to China. We have this fantasy that our interests and the interests of the super rich are the same. Like somehow the rich will eventually get so full that they’ll explode. And the candy will rain down on the rest of us.

Like there’s some kind of pinata of benevolence. But here’s the thing about a pinata. It doesn’t open on its own. You have to beat it with a stick.”

I just absolutely loved this talking point last night.

127 Kragar  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:55:44pm

Libyan troops ambushing news crews

Al Jazeera has announced that one of its cameramen, Ali Hassan Al Jaber, was killed after a reporting team for the Arabic-language channel was ambushed by government forces near the town of Benghazi.

128 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:56:29pm

Fukushima Nuclear Radiation Breaches Safety Level; Emergency Situation Notified


The radiation level at the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant, which was hit by the earthquake, has exceeded the legal limit, posing extreme danger to the people in a multi-kilometer radius and spawning long-term environmental hazards.

Even as radiation from the No. 1 reactor went above the legal limit of 500 to hit 882 on Sunday, the cooling system at the No.3 reactor has failed; a development that can potentially lead to the failure of the reactor.

The Tokyo Electric Power Co., which runs the Fukushima atomic power plant, notified the government early Sunday morning of a potentially dangerous development of the reactor core of the No.3 plant loosing its cooling ability. When the cooling function at the fuel core fails, it leads to extreme heating of the core, leading to a blast or dangerous levels of radiation.

“It was the sixth reactor overall at the Fukushima No. 1 and No. 2 plants to undergo cooling failure since the massive earthquake and ensuing tsunami struck Japan on Friday,” Kyodo News reported.

Nasty shit going on over there in Japan. Damn.

129 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:56:41pm

re: #120 prairiefire

sounds like a filthy whore gaming the system to me.

My best friend actually knows Phil Gramm and regards him very highly. I’ll not have his name besmirched in such a fashion.

130 albusteve  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:57:30pm

re: #127 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Libyan troops ambushing news crews

eliminate the press, shut down any outlet for information…predictable…as for me, the pretext for invasion, has been written

131 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:57:49pm

re: #129 Dark_Falcon

My best friend actually knows Phil Gramm and regards him very highly. I’ll not have his name besmirched in such a fashion.

Do you think that passing laws that deregulates the financial industry then going to work for the financial industry is a conflict of interest?

132 Four More Tears  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:58:20pm

re: #129 Dark_Falcon

My best friend actually knows Phil Gramm and regards him very highly. I’ll not have his name besmirched in such a fashion.

You won’t? Sooo… what are you going to do about it?

133 palomino  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:58:23pm

re: #129 Dark_Falcon

My best friend actually knows Phil Gramm and regards him very highly. I’ll not have his name besmirched in such a fashion.

Gramm, back in early 2008: “Americans are suffering from a mental recession.”

Sorry, can’t regard that too highly.

134 APox  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:58:57pm

re: #132 JasonA

You won’t? Sooo… what are you going to do about it?

Duel to the death…. Ten paces and turn!

135 prairiefire  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:59:34pm

fillllthyy whore
Cops and firefighters’ unions are exempt my ass. Go after the teachers. Could they be any more blatant? I don’t think so.

136 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 7:59:37pm

re: #132 JasonA

You won’t? Sooo… what are you going to do about it?

I’ll downding for it, I’ll yell, I’ll scream, I’ll defend him.

137 APox  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:00:12pm

re: #130 albusteve

eliminate the press, shut down any outlet for information…predictable…as for me, the pretext for invasion, has been written

You know, I just don’t really think I agree with the idea that we should intervene. I don’t know why we have this love affair with being the police in the world, but if we really decide to go that route…. Why haven’t we done anything about basically everything in Africa? There has been genocides with death counts in the millions..

What about Libya is any different?

138 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:00:59pm

re: #127 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Libyan troops ambushing news crews

Does the rest of the world have enough stones to push this murderous dictator out of power?

139 Four More Tears  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:01:08pm

re: #136 Dark_Falcon

I’ll downding for it, I’ll yell, I’ll scream, I’ll defend him.

Phil Graham?

Really?

sigh

Then again, there are still Catholics who’ll defend the Pope, so I guess anything’s possible…

140 APox  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:01:59pm

re: #139 JasonA

Phil Graham?

Really?

sigh

Then again, there are still Catholics who’ll defend the Pope, so I guess anything’s possible…

Hey man, anything that involves swindling the average person out of money in the name of job creation and private sector growth is a positive for Dark!

141 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:02:01pm

re: #137 APox

What about Libya is any different?

They aren’t trying to produce nukes.

Oh, wait.

142 albusteve  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:02:19pm

re: #137 APox

You know, I just don’t really think I agree with the idea that we should intervene. I don’t know why we have this love affair with being the police in the world, but if we really decide to go that route… Why haven’t we done anything about basically everything in Africa? There has been genocides with death counts in the millions..

What about Libya is any different?

I’m thinking the Saudis, or some quick coalition…not us

143 Four More Tears  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:03:26pm

re: #137 APox

You know, I just don’t really think I agree with the idea that we should intervene. I don’t know why we have this love affair with being the police in the world, but if we really decide to go that route… Why haven’t we done anything about basically everything in Africa? There has been genocides with death counts in the millions..

What about Libya is any different?

Black Gold.

Texas Tea.

144 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:03:28pm

re: #135 prairiefire

filllthyy whore
Cops and firefighters’ unions are exempt my ass. Go after the teachers. Could they be any more blatant? I don’t think so.


Here’s a good article on public sector unions at work:

Union Power Comes in Many Forms

When the skyrocketing cost of public employees’ salaries and benefits helped push New York City to the brink of bankruptcy in the mid-1970s, state and local officials put together a bailout that reduced pension and benefits packages for Gotham’s workers. But by 1987, with the city out of the crisis, New York’s unions were again demanding better pensions and benefits. When Mayor Ed Koch balked, the union simply abandoned the bargaining process and went to Albany, where it offered state legislators its political backing in exchange for enacting generous new benefits. “It’s the same old story,” said a frustrated Koch. “Giving in to the unions will help Assembly members and senators stay in office.” The mayor decided to go to Albany too and dissuade the legislators from granting the new benefits—but they told him to stay home. “They sent [labor leader] Barry Feinstein to see me,” Koch told me several years ago, recalling the incident. “He told me that there was nothing I could do to stop the bill.” The cost to the city’s taxpayers: $101 million annually.

The situation that Koch faced back then is familiar to many mayors, city council members, and even governors today. This year’s face-off in Wisconsin between Governor Scott Walker and unions has generated an unusual, and long overdue, debate over collective bargaining rights in the public sector. But few seem to realize that when public-sector unions can’t win at the bargaining table, they have other ways of getting what they want—above all, exerting their muscle on legislators.

In 1974, for example, New York State legislators up for reelection curried favor with unions by passing a union-backed arbitration system. When negotiations between a city or county and its public-safety workers hit an impasse, an arbitrator would now step in, but he was instructed not to consider the economic impact of his decision. Big rewards have been common. Police officers in New York counties, whose unions make heavy use of the arbitration system, saw their salaries increase by double the state rate of inflation from 1997 to 2007, a Manhattan Institute study found.

145 palomino  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:04:12pm

re: #139 JasonA

Phil Graham?

Really?

sigh

Then again, there are still Catholics who’ll defend the Pope, so I guess anything’s possible…

Gramm’s a douchebag. Ran for the gop nod back in 88 and got laughed out of the primaries. Was McCain’s chief economic advisor until his observation—in the middle of the Great Recession—that the problem was all in people’s heads.

146 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:04:55pm

One of the complaints I frequently hear when a right winger is bent on vilifying the left is that socialist attempts at levelling the playing field for minorities brings down everybody, so we’ll all inevitably end up equal but poor, but that through the magic of the free market everybody that deserves it, including members of minorities, will be rich and equal.

What I see is the number of rich staying constant, while their control of the economy increases and the number of middle class decreasing while the number of poor is increasing.

This is happening most noticeably in the country that is the least socialist and most right wing and that is the closest to the free market ideal.

Why is that?

147 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:05:08pm

re: #137 APox

What about Libya is any different?

They don’t support terrorism.

Err, scratch that one too.

148 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:05:55pm

re: #122 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

But hey, everyone had a great time in the 20s, right?
///

White males from wealthy families had a bitchin’ time.

149 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:05:57pm

16 seconds left, UConn up by three, who will win?

150 APox  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:05:58pm

re: #147 prononymous

They don’t support terrorism.

Err, scratch that one too.

Jeez, sounds like Iraq 2.0. Sounds great!

151 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:06:16pm

re: #140 APox

Hey man, anything that involves swindling the average person out of money in the name of job creation and private sector growth is a positive for Dark!

That’s not it at all. Someone whom I trust entirely has vouched for Phil Gramm’s character, and that carries extreme weight with me.

152 APox  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:08:08pm

re: #151 Dark_Falcon

That’s not it at all. Someone whom I trust entirely has vouched for Phil Gramm’s character, and that carries extreme weight with me.

Actions speak louder than words about someone’s character.

153 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:08:26pm

re: #129 Dark_Falcon

My best friend actually knows Phil Gramm and regards him very highly. I’ll not have his name besmirched in such a fashion.

How does an opinion of Gramm affect your friend?

154 Renaissance_Man  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:08:36pm

re: #121 palomino

The public is gonna forget that we have $13 trillion in debt? How, mass hypnotism?

Well, yes, actually. Or at least, sort of. They’ll forget that we have that much debt the instant a Republican is President. Just like they suddenly remembered that deficits are bad when a Democrat became President.

re: #114 APox


What fictional world do you live in where we have been “cutting” anything to make a difference? Oh, I forgot sorry, maybe you are referring to NPR. Great. Country saved.

It is a fictional world, and it’s a particularly unpleasant one. It’s one where repeating pat statements that fly in the face of facts substitutes for evidence. And where the most important quality is an endless capacity for rationalisation to support the party line.

155 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:09:45pm

re: #137 APox

What about Libya is any different?

They aren’t a middle eastern, oil producing country with a maniacal dictator that loves him some WMD, puts down rebellions with slaughter, and promotes terrorism?

Shit. I give up. Gaddafi didn’t try to kill Bush’s dad?

156 dmon  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:10:10pm

re: #144 Dark_Falcon

“When negotiations between a city or county and its public-safety workers hit an impasse, an arbitrator would now step in, but he was instructed not to consider the economic impact of his decision. Big rewards have been common. Police officers in New York counties, whose unions make heavy use of the arbitration system, saw their salaries increase by double the state rate of inflation from 1997 to 2007, a Manhattan Institute study found.”

I dont think anyone is saying that there should not be some changes in the labor law. Here in Ohio we have a similar setup, if the two sides can’t agree it goes to binding abitration.

The new law soon to pass here gets rid of arbitration. After passage if the two sides cant agree, the city is the final arbitrator.

In other words, two sides bargain, the one side ultimately just imposes whatever they want.

157 albusteve  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:11:12pm

re: #146 b_sharp

One of the complaints I frequently hear when a right winger is bent on vilifying the left is that socialist attempts at levelling the playing field for minorities brings down everybody, so we’ll all inevitably end up equal but poor, but that through the magic of the free market everybody that deserves it, including members of minorities, will be rich and equal.

What I see is the number of rich staying constant, while their control of the economy increases and the number of middle class decreasing while the number of poor is increasing.

This is happening most noticeably in the country that is the least socialist and most right wing and that is the closest to the free market ideal.

Why is that?

maybe it’s partially the fact that good, well paying jobs have been dwindling even as the number of total jobs stayed more or less constant…I don’t see the problem as political ideology, altho politics is a tool of business…when does collusion become conspiracy?….I don’t know

158 dmon  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:11:23pm

P.S. the arbitration rate in Ohio since 2000 is 2.4%

159 palomino  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:12:03pm

re: #151 Dark_Falcon

That’s not it at all. Someone whom I trust entirely has vouched for Phil Gramm’s character, and that carries extreme weight with me.

This isn’t about whether he cheats on his cancer stricken wife; it’s about ideas, and whether Gramm’s make any sense.

So what if your friend knows him? That’s completely immaterial to the discussion at hand. And, if he’s such a stand up guy, why did he call the Great Recession a figment of people’s imaginations?

160 APox  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:12:20pm

re: #155 prononymous

They aren’t a middle eastern, oil producing country with a maniacal dictator that loves him some WMD, puts down rebellions with slaughter, and promotes terrorism?

Shit. I give up. Gaddafi didn’t try to kill Bush’s dad?

… But that country has been the same for the last what, 30 years? What has changed where we are now suddenly under some imminent threat from Libya…

161 Usually refered to as anyways  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:12:36pm

Japan quake highlights nuclear dangers: Greens

The Greens say the threat from an earthquake-hit nuclear power plant in Japan shows the dangers of nuclear energy.

Friday’s 8.9-magnitude earthquake and tsunami damaged the cooling system of a reactor at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant.

Plant operator Tokyo Electric Power Co (TEPCO) says radiation levels have surpassed the legal limit and the cooling system at another of the plant’s six-nuclear reactors has also failed.

Nineteen people taken to a nearby hospital have been exposed to radioactivity, in addition to three cases of exposure recorded on Saturday.

About 140,000 people have been evacuated from around the plant.

Australia has requested more information about the nuclear threat, which Prime Minister Julia Gillard describes as a very serious issue.

Greens leader Bob Brown says the situation in Japan is a reminder that nuclear energy is outside “the limits of human safeguards”.

More…

162 Jadespring  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:12:42pm

re: #152 APox

Actions speak louder than words about someone’s character.

Yeah a person can be a good person, have great character, the best of conscious intentions in what they’re doing but if it’s wrong or misguided that’s what ends up counting.

Great people and do and say stupid things.

163 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:12:47pm

re: #153 b_sharp

How does an opinion of Gramm affect your friend?

With respect, that is not my place to say. I’m not going into detail about other people’s lives without their permission. Again, i mean no disrespect, but I do not feel I can answer that question.

164 webevintage  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:13:33pm

re: #149 NJDhockeyfan

16 seconds left, UConn up by three, who will win?

a pox on UConn….

165 sagehen  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:14:09pm

re: #144 Dark_Falcon

Here’s a good article on public sector unions at work:

Union Power Comes in Many Forms

You’re going to bitch that NYC pays its bravest enough that they can afford to live in the city they’re willing to die for? Really?

Fuck you.

166 Renaissance_Man  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:14:10pm

re: #161 ozbloke


Greens leader Bob Brown says the situation in Japan is a reminder that nuclear energy is outside “the limits of human safeguards”.

I find it hard to believe that this guy actually has national clout these days. What the hell happened there last year?

167 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:14:26pm

re: #164 webevintage

a pox on UConn…

Good for them. I have always liked that team.
:)

168 JAFO  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:14:37pm

re: #161 ozbloke

It wasn’t the quake that caused the problems at the plants as far as I know, it was the tsunami taking out the diesel generators for the pumps. Predictable is preventable.

169 palomino  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:14:40pm

re: #163 Dark_Falcon

With respect, that is not my place to say. I’m not going into detail about other people’s lives without their permission. Again, i mean no disrespect, but I do not feel I can answer that question.

Then why raise the topic? Why does it matter that you almost know Gramm?

170 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:14:54pm

re: #156 dmon

“When negotiations between a city or county and its public-safety workers hit an impasse, an arbitrator would now step in, but he was instructed not to consider the economic impact of his decision. Big rewards have been common. Police officers in New York counties, whose unions make heavy use of the arbitration system, saw their salaries increase by double the state rate of inflation from 1997 to 2007, a Manhattan Institute study found.”

I dont think anyone is saying that there should not be some changes in the labor law. Here in Ohio we have a similar setup, if the two sides can’t agree it goes to binding abitration.

The new law soon to pass here gets rid of arbitration. After passage if the two sides cant agree, the city is the final arbitrator.

In other words, two sides bargain, the one side ultimately just imposes whatever they want.

OK, that takes matters too far, IMO. Either disallow collective bargaining or allow it to be real. That’s just dishonest.

171 APox  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:15:09pm

re: #164 webevintage

a pox on UConn…

I’m there! :)

172 albusteve  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:15:13pm

re: #162 Jadespring

Yeah a person can be a good person, have great character, the best of conscious intentions in what they’re doing but if it’s wrong or misguided that’s what ends up counting.

Great people and do and say stupid things.

and people are easily bought and sold with words of emotion, or baubles, or money….who knows?

173 Usually refered to as anyways  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:15:22pm

re: #129 Dark_Falcon

My best friend actually knows Phil Gramm and regards him very highly. I’ll not have his name besmirched in such a fashion.

Hey Dark,

How far does this extend?
With six degrees of separation no one would have a bad word to say about anyone.

174 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:15:39pm

re: #151 Dark_Falcon

That’s not it at all. Someone whom I trust entirely has vouched for Phil Gramm’s character, and that carries extreme weight with me.

I’m sure he’s a great guy to be friends with. I have several friends with similar views as him. But that doesn’t mean that I’d necessarily want any of them getting a(nother) chance to put those ideas to work.

175 jamesfirecat  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:16:17pm

re: #163 Dark_Falcon

With respect, that is not my place to say. I’m not going into detail about other people’s lives without their permission. Again, i mean no disrespect, but I do not feel I can answer that question.

Dark I say this as someone who likes you but once again STEP UP YOUR GAME!

If you can’t explain why you take position X or why exactly piece of evidence Y /person Z maters to you, don’t bring them up in the first place!

176 Achilles Tang  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:17:10pm

re: #144 Dark_Falcon

These statistics are an obfuscation of the issue at this time.

There is no denying that unions have had a dark side, but there is an equally strong case to be made that they created the middle class, as opposed to a system of the upper and the lower classes which used to be the norm for much of human history.

The issue at present is pretending, by some, that unions today are incapable of being responsible citizens and that they are the main cause of the problem that can be solved by unilateral action from what is a highly idealogical driven party.

If police unions, in the example you quote, have been paid twice the rate of inflation, unfairly, are you suggesting that they are overpaid (not where I live) and should put back to where they were?

Perhaps they were underpaid to begin with?

177 palomino  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:17:19pm

re: #175 jamesfirecat

Dark I say this as someone who likes you but once again STEP UP YOUR GAME!

If you can’t explain why you take position X or why exactly piece of evidence Y /person Z maters to you, don’t bring them up in the first place!

It’s all so passive-aggressive.

178 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:17:29pm

re: #153 b_sharp

How does an opinion of Gramm affect your friend?

Dark does this alot, my daddy says, my best friend says, whatever. Apparently he doesn’t like to think for himself, gets ahold of these hand me down opinions and holds onto them tightly. It’s an emotional argument by authority that can’t possibly be questioned, just roll with it.

179 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:17:29pm

Has anyone blamed GWB & Dick Cheney for the earthquake & tsunami yet?

(Just curious)

180 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:17:59pm

re: #165 sagehen

I said no such damn thing. The article is saying government unions often employ their own end runs around the bargaining process. The article isn’t saying what you think it says.

181 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:18:50pm

re: #179 NJDhockeyfan

Has anyone blamed GWB & Dick Cheney for the earthquake & tsunami yet?

(Just curious)

Well, did Bush take the earthquake machine back to Texas with him, or sign it over to Obama in the transfer?

182 albusteve  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:19:07pm

re: #175 jamesfirecat

Dark I say this as someone who likes you but once again STEP UP YOUR GAME!

If you can’t explain why you take position X or why exactly piece of evidence Y /person Z maters to you, don’t bring them up in the first place!

no more casual posts? free from such serious dissection?
got it

183 palomino  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:19:17pm

re: #179 NJDhockeyfan

Has anyone blamed GWB & Dick Cheney for the earthquake & tsunami yet?

(Just curious)

2007 wants its joke back.

184 Achilles Tang  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:19:40pm

re: #155 prononymous

Shit. I give up. Gaddafi didn’t try to kill Bush’s dad?

Did he not threaten to kill Reagan?

185 APox  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:19:40pm

re: #179 NJDhockeyfan

Has anyone blamed GWB & Dick Cheney for the earthquake & tsunami yet?

(Just curious)

Here, I’ll go ahead and do it now.

Deep water drilling has negatively affected the tectonic plates. Bush and Cheney worked in big oil. They allowed drilling to occur. Bush and Cheney are trying to kill the Japanese!!!

/

186 Stanghazi  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:20:17pm

re: #155 prononymous

They aren’t a middle eastern, oil producing country with a maniacal dictator that loves him some WMD, puts down rebellions with slaughter, and promotes terrorism?

Shit. I give up. Gaddafi didn’t try to kill Bush’s dad?

lol

187 Usually refered to as anyways  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:20:27pm

re: #166 Renaissance_Man

I find it hard to believe that this guy actually has national clout these days. What the hell happened there last year?

I think there is a reasonable amount of support for green values, lots of people under fifty are green to some extent.
I can’t speak for the rest of the population, they often don’t vote in a way I support.

I think because of Bob’s time in government his is seen as an elder statesman for the environment, he has enough years accrued.
I think the greens also get a lot of support from ex Labor people.

188 dmon  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:21:02pm

re: #170 Dark_Falcon

Well…..thats what their passing

189 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:21:39pm

re: #185 APox

Here, I’ll go ahead and do it now.

Deep water drilling has negatively affected the tectonic plates. Bush and Cheney worked in big oil. They allowed drilling to occur. Bush and Cheney are trying to kill the Japanese!!!

/

That’s actually very good. Upding.

190 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:21:54pm

re: #161 ozbloke

I’d probably be considered an environmentalist by many. But I swear, environmentalists can be so f’n stupid sometimes. AGW will affect humans and animals alike - significantly. Meanwhile, how’s the wildlife around Chernobyl doing lately?

Youtube Video
191 palomino  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:22:03pm

re: #179 NJDhockeyfan

Has anyone blamed GWB & Dick Cheney for the earthquake & tsunami yet?

(Just curious)

There’s enough real shit to blame on your heroes without bringing the poor suffering Japanese into the mix.

192 reine.de.tout  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:22:25pm

re: #181 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, did Bush take the earthquake machine back to Texas with him, or sign it over to Obama in the transfer?

I have it on good authority it’s back in Texas.

193 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:22:35pm

re: #185 APox

Here, I’ll go ahead and do it now.

Deep water drilling has negatively affected the tectonic plates. Bush and Cheney worked in big oil. They allowed drilling to occur. Bush and Cheney are trying to kill the Japanese!!!

/

Awesome! I knew they were in on it. Now when will find out about the secrets of the fake moon landing created at a Hollywood stage?

194 Usually refered to as anyways  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:23:01pm

re: #168 mracb

It wasn’t the quake that caused the problems at the plants as far as I know, it was the tsunami taking out the diesel generators for the pumps. Predictable is preventable.

I didn’t really read all the article, I posted it because someone posted earlier ‘How long will it be before greens start using this as an excuse?’

195 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:23:01pm

re: #161 ozbloke

Japan quake highlights nuclear dangers: Greens

The Greens say the threat from an earthquake-hit nuclear power plant in Japan shows the dangers of nuclear energy.

Friday’s 8.9-magnitude earthquake and tsunami damaged the cooling system of a reactor at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant.

Plant operator Tokyo Electric Power Co (TEPCO) says radiation levels have surpassed the legal limit and the cooling system at another of the plant’s six-nuclear reactors has also failed.

Nineteen people taken to a nearby hospital have been exposed to radioactivity, in addition to three cases of exposure recorded on Saturday.

About 140,000 people have been evacuated from around the plant.

Australia has requested more information about the nuclear threat, which Prime Minister Julia Gillard describes as a very serious issue.

Greens leader Bob Brown says the situation in Japan is a reminder that nuclear energy is outside “the limits of human safeguards”.

More…

Nuclear is a dangerous form of energy, and safeguards can’t be perfect, but we as a society are willing to grudgingly accept certain levels of danger from many systems that overall benefit us. Even the danger of radiation travelling through the atmosphere and affecting more than just the locals has analogs in oil production, gas pipelines, chemical production, coal mining and others.

New technology in all areas, including nuclear, decreases the probability of large scale tragedy.

What makes the risks of nuclear less tolerable than the others?

196 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:23:03pm

re: #184 Naso Tang

Did he not threaten to kill Reagan?

I don’t think he did specifically. He did once say that ‘his nose would be cut’, which I think is a figure of speech rather than a physical threat.

Maybe he did. He talks a lot.

197 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:23:27pm

re: #183 palomino

2007 wants its joke back.

A downding?
Really?

LOL!

198 reine.de.tout  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:24:18pm

re: #197 NJDhockeyfan

A downding?
Really?

LOL!

I soooo much prefer SFZ’s humor to downdings.

199 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:24:41pm

re: #163 Dark_Falcon

With respect, that is not my place to say. I’m not going into detail about other people’s lives without their permission. Again, i mean no disrespect, but I do not feel I can answer that question.

My point is D_F, that discussing one person says nothing about another, unless the problematic actions of the one are copied by the other.

200 sagehen  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:24:49pm

re: #180 Dark_Falcon

I said no such damn thing. The article is saying government unions often employ their own end runs around the bargaining process. The article isn’t saying what you think it says.

It considers it a problem that NYC cops salaries went up twice as fast as the state’s rate of inflation. This is fair, since the cost of housing in NYC also went up twice as fast as the state’s rate of inflation. The arbitrator did a good job; sorry if Ed Koch didn’t like having to put a teensy-tinesy transaction tax on the Wall Street traders he drinks with to balance his budget but it’s worked out well for all concerned.

201 jaunte  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:25:45pm

re: #170 Dark_Falcon

Maybe we should be looking at the Danish model.

It is common to belong to a trade union. More than 80% of Danish wage earners are members of a union. The proportion of union members is especially high among unskilled and skilled workers, but union membership is also common among people with a higher education. This is primarily because their salary and labour conditions are negotiated individually, particularly in the private sector which makes unions relevant in terms of contract counselling, career guidance, wage negotiations etc. Unions are unified in nationwide organizations. The most important nationwide unions for degree holders are the Society of Danish Engineers, the Association of Business and Administration, the Danish Association of Masters and PhD’s and the Association of Danish Lawyers and Economists.

By European standards, the agreements on the Danish labour market are highly flexible, for instance with regard to working hours, overtime, hiring and firing of personnel. This also means that mobility is high on the Danish labour market.[Link: ida.dk…]

202 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:25:54pm

re: #192 reine.de.tout

I have it on good authority it’s back in Texas.

Well, either Bush did it, or possibly the cleaning lady just knocked one of the levers while dusting.

They don’t have any small grandchildren yet.

203 palomino  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:26:33pm

re: #197 NJDhockeyfan

A downding?
Really?

LOL!

For finding a cheap way to politicize a disaster that’s unfolding in real time. Your “joke” is in bad taste with even worse timing.

204 Four More Tears  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:26:42pm

re: #200 sagehen

It considers it a problem that NYC cops salaries went up twice as fast as the state’s rate of inflation. This is fair, since the cost of housing in NYC also went up twice as fast as the state’s rate of inflation. The arbitrator did a good job; sorry if Ed Koch didn’t like having to put a teensy-tinesy transaction tax on the Wall Street traders he drinks with to balance his budget but it’s worked out well for all concerned.

Can’t wait for them to start making underground housing in the city for all of the poor troglodytes.

205 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:26:44pm

re: #185 APox

Here, I’ll go ahead and do it now.

Deep water drilling has negatively affected the tectonic plates. Bush and Cheney worked in big oil. They allowed drilling to occur. Bush and Cheney are trying to kill the Japanese!!!

/

Excellent! I think you have a way to go to de-throne British chatterata Polly Toynbee as the champion of ingenious Bush-blaming however. She managed to blame W for the losses she suffered in a Nigerian e-mail scam.

206 albusteve  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:27:27pm

I would really like to see Europe and the Med nations step up the pressure on Mo, it’s time to see some real action very soon, like within days…skip the red tape and take out known targets and stop Mo’s slaughter…it’s become a dire situation for the people over there…Mo is a well documented killer, nobody will dispute certain air strikes immediately…then consider if at some point BO has to make a decision to in…far better to have that on others, he does not need such grave choices…but speed is essential, and I don’t think anybody has the balls to pull the trigger…they are all standing around waiting for some leadership without the US to lean on…interesting and fatal too

207 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:27:30pm

re: #195 b_sharp

Nuclear is a dangerous form of energy, and safeguards can’t be perfect, but we as a society are willing to grudgingly accept certain levels of danger from many systems that overall benefit us. Even the danger of radiation travelling through the atmosphere and affecting more than just the locals has analogs in oil production, gas pipelines, chemical production, coal mining and others.

New technology in all areas, including nuclear, decreases the probability of large scale tragedy.

What makes the risks of nuclear less tolerable than the others?

We’ve always been threatened with burning alive, getting squished in a coal mine, or having gunk in our lungs from our energy sources, but glowing in the dark is a new fear.

I know that’s glib, but basically that’s a lot of it.

208 Usually refered to as anyways  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:28:00pm

re: #195 b_sharp


What makes the risks of nuclear less tolerable than the others?

Your lucky, you got updings for this.
I don’t know, what does make the risk of nuclear less tolerable than the others?
Is it a trick question?

209 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:28:42pm

And you, Stalker “PrivateJohnson”, are a sick hater who gets his jollies bashing a site you flounced from because the owner of it decided to to join your relocation to Hateville. Go take a long walk off a short pier.

[Flips the Stalker the bird.]

210 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:30:01pm

re: #203 palomino

For finding a cheap way to politicize a disaster that’s unfolding in real time. Your “joke” is in bad taste with even worse timing.

You are obviously the only one on here who read my post and took it that way. Cheap way? Politicize a disaster?

Ha! Bullshit!

211 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:30:26pm

re: #165 sagehen

You’re going to bitch that NYC pays its bravest enough that they can afford to live in the city they’re willing to die for? Really?

Fuck you.

Calm down, I don’t think this warrants a fuck you. D_F sees non-essential workers as representative of the unions , while you seem to see them as the essential representatives.

Ask him if that is what he believes, and if he does say cops, EMTs and firefighters should have their wages severed, then a creative verbalization of your ire is the way to go.

212 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:30:41pm

re: #205 Shiplord Kirel

Excellent! I think you have a way to go to de-throne British chatterata Polly Toynbee as the champion of ingenious Bush-blaming however. She managed to blame W for the losses she suffered in a Nigerian e-mail scam.

We reap from the third world what we sow: if some Nigerians learned lessons in capitalism from global oil companies that helped corrupt and despoil that land, it is hardly surpising they absorbed some of the Texan oil values that now rule the White House.

Because obviously, the noble savages could not possibly have come up with Internet scamming on their own.

/

213 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:31:37pm

re: #173 ozbloke

Hey Dark,

How far does this extend?
With six degrees of separation no one would have a bad word to say about anyone.

Your mother wears army boots.

214 JAFO  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:31:45pm

re: #195 b_sharp

Nuclear is a dangerous form of energy, and safeguards can’t be perfect, but we as a society are willing to grudgingly accept certain levels of danger from many systems that overall benefit us. Even the danger of radiation travelling through the atmosphere and affecting more than just the locals has analogs in oil production, gas pipelines, chemical production, coal mining and others.

New technology in all areas, including nuclear, decreases the probability of large scale tragedy.

What makes the risks of nuclear less tolerable than the others?

Exactly, the PG&E San Bruno gas pipeline explosion has killed more Americans than civilian nuclear energy in the USA.

215 reine.de.tout  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:32:11pm

I am so distressed by the earthquake, the tsunami and the awful events going on in Japan right now, I can hardly think straight.

216 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:33:07pm

re: #176 Naso Tang


If police unions, in the example you quote, have been paid twice the rate of inflation, unfairly, are you suggesting that they are overpaid (not where I live) and should put back to where they were?

Perhaps they were underpaid to begin with?

That is the problem with stats, it’s too easy to present them without context.

217 Usually refered to as anyways  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:33:15pm

re: #213 b_sharp

Your mother wears army boots.

Well she did yes, when you were still shittin yella.
Leave my Mum out of this, I’m very proud of her service.

218 palomino  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:33:26pm

re: #210 NJDhockeyfan

You are obviously the only one on here who read my post and took it that way. Cheap way? Politicize a disaster?

Ha! Bullshit!

No, I’m obviously NOT the only one who took it that way. Why you would bring up Bush and Cheney in the context of an earthquake/tsunami is beyond me. Just seems like mindless partisan hackery. Maybe that’s just how you roll. Whatever.

219 JAFO  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:33:26pm

re: #215 reine.de.tout

I am so distressed by the earthquake, the tsunami and the awful events going on in Japan right now, I can hardly think straight.

Ganja helps with that.

220 sagehen  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:33:32pm

re: #211 b_sharp

Calm down, I don’t think this warrants a fuck you. D_F sees non-essential workers as representative of the unions , while you seem to see them as the essential representatives.

Ask him if that is what he believes, and if he does say cops, EMTs and firefighters should have their wages severed, then a creative verbalization of your ire is the way to go.

The article in question was about cops and firefighters.

221 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:33:51pm

re: #200 sagehen

It considers it a problem that NYC cops salaries went up twice as fast as the state’s rate of inflation. This is fair, since the cost of housing in NYC also went up twice as fast as the state’s rate of inflation. The arbitrator did a good job; sorry if Ed Koch didn’t like having to put a teensy-tinesy transaction tax on the Wall Street traders he drinks with to balance his budget but it’s worked out well for all concerned.

Source?

222 Usually refered to as anyways  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:34:20pm

re: #215 reine.de.tout

I can hardly think straight.

Watch out ladies…

223 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:34:41pm

re: #99 prairiefire

Photo diary from the Wisconsin rally today:[Link: www.dailykos.com…]

Love it!

224 aagcobb  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:34:57pm

re: #195 b_sharp

What makes the risks of nuclear less tolerable than the others?

The risk of substantial regions of the country being rendered uninhabitable for thousands of years?

225 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:35:02pm

re: #205 Shiplord Kirel

Excellent! I think you have a way to go to de-throne British chatterata Polly Toynbee as the champion of ingenious Bush-blaming however. She managed to blame W for the losses she suffered in a Nigerian e-mail scam.

Are there any problems in the entire history of this planet’s past, present, and future that President Bush isn’t responsible for?

226 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:35:43pm

re: #213 b_sharp

Your mother wears army boots.

Given the high quality of army boots these days, that’s no longer an insult.

227 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:35:44pm

re: #195 b_sharp

Nuclear is a dangerous form of energy, and safeguards can’t be perfect, but we as a society are willing to grudgingly accept certain levels of danger from many systems that overall benefit us. Even the danger of radiation travelling through the atmosphere and affecting more than just the locals has analogs in oil production, gas pipelines, chemical production, coal mining and others.

New technology in all areas, including nuclear, decreases the probability of large scale tragedy.

What makes the risks of nuclear less tolerable than the others?

Excellent point. Fossil fuels shorten and sometimes destroy human life even when they work perfectly.
Incidentally, coal produces its own form of radioactive contamination in the form of uranium and thorium impurities that are left in the coal ash after the coal itself has been burned. This is only a few parts per million but thanks to the gigatons of coal burned every year, it amounts to 800 tons of uranium and about twice that much thorium being dumped into the environment every year in the United States alone.
These trace impurities could produce more energy than burning the coal itself did. Some nuclear scientists have in fact suggested mining coal ash heaps as a handy source of nuclear fuel.

228 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:36:29pm

re: #179 NJDhockeyfan

Has anyone blamed GWB & Dick Cheney for the earthquake & tsunami yet?

(Just curious)

GWB was a likeable puppet, Cheney was the puppeteer. Cheney’s attitude has infested the American right and their collective boot stomp and pouting face has upset Gaia.

She’s pissed and isn’t going to take it any more.

229 Targetpractice  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:38:19pm

re: #214 mracb

Exactly, the PG&E San Bruno gas pipeline explosion has killed more Americans than civilian nuclear energy in the USA.

And yet, I don’t remember there ever being serious talk about giving up natural gas. But you can bet there will be a lot of arguing, in coming days, against further pursuit of nuclear power.

230 Four More Tears  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:38:33pm

re: #225 NJDhockeyfan

Are there any problems in the entire history of this planet’s past, present, and future that President Bush isn’t responsible for?

Arrested Development getting canceled.

231 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:38:38pm

re: #215 reine.de.tout

I am so distressed by the earthquake, the tsunami and the awful events going on in Japan right now, I can hardly think straight.

I was watching the devastation on TV for the 1st time last night and found it hard to believe. It’s still difficult to understand how something like this can happen.

Prayers for all those in Japan and their families.

232 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:38:47pm

re: #215 reine.de.tout

I am so distressed by the earthquake, the tsunami and the awful events going on in Japan right now, I can hardly think straight.

My mother said she was watching a news show where a nuclear scientist had brought on a small model of the reactor, and was showing with bottles of mineral water what they were doing to cool down the core.

She thought it was enchanting in a worrisome way, and rather Japanese.

233 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:39:08pm

re: #151 Dark_Falcon

That’s not it at all. Someone whom I trust entirely has vouched for Phil Gramm’s character, and that carries extreme weight with me.

“By their fruits” is how the much abused verse of scripture puts it, DF. He can have all the character witnesses in the world but what he has done and what he has said has show clearly enough who and what he is. To many people, that wasn’t a pretty sight.

234 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:39:23pm

re: #190 prononymous

I’d probably be considered an environmentalist by many. But I swear, environmentalists can be so f’n stupid sometimes. AGW will affect humans and animals alike - significantly. Meanwhile, how’s the wildlife around Chernobyl doing lately?

[Video]

Great, busy showing off their extra appendages to their families.

235 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:39:49pm

Hey all,

I’m done being productive today.

what are you doing? besides participating in LGF.

236 Obdicut  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:39:51pm

re: #229 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

And an explosion and fire at a coal plant could potentially create a fire so bad it couldn’t be put out. Nuclear is scary, but it is just because it’s such a different form of reaction.

237 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:40:27pm

re: #228 b_sharp

GWB was a likeable puppet, Cheney was the puppeteer. Cheney’s attitude has infested the American right and their collective boot stomp and pouting face has upset Gaia.

She’s pissed and isn’t going to take it any more.

That’s the real meaning of Walker’s bill. He’s found out that Gaia’s ear is in Wisconsin. The bill has secret clause that will let the Koch brothers build a mine on the site and scoop out her brain, and replace it with a Fox News receiver! MUWAHAHAHA!!

/Hey, just havin’ fun with the meme.

238 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:40:34pm

re: #218 palomino

No, I’m obviously NOT the only one who took it that way. Why you would bring up Bush and Cheney in the context of an earthquake/tsunami is beyond me. Just seems like mindless partisan hackery. Maybe that’s just how you roll. Whatever.

Everyone who knows me knows I’m not like that. Stop trying to start something. I won’t play your silly little childish games tonight.

239 palomino  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:40:48pm

re: #225 NJDhockeyfan

Are there any problems in the entire history of this planet’s past, present, and future that President Bush isn’t responsible for?

Nah, there’s enough shit they fucked up for real without having to manufacture anything.

240 Four More Tears  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:41:12pm

re: #236 Obdicut

And an explosion and fire at a coal plant could potentially create a fire so bad it couldn’t be put out. Nuclear is scary, but it is just because it’s such a different form of reaction.

Centralia still burning?.

241 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:41:31pm

re: #130 albusteve

eliminate the press, shut down any outlet for information…predictable…as for me, the pretext for invasion, has been written

What are you going to use? Most of the troops are in Afghanistan and Iraq.

242 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:41:35pm

re: #207 SanFranciscoZionist

We’ve always been threatened with burning alive, getting squished in a coal mine, or having gunk in our lungs from our energy sources, but glowing in the dark is a new fear.

I know that’s glib, but basically that’s a lot of it.

I blame the ’50s movies.

243 Kragar  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:41:49pm

re: #236 Obdicut

And an explosion and fire at a coal plant could potentially create a fire so bad it couldn’t be put out. Nuclear is scary, but it is just because it’s such a different form of reaction.

Centralia, Pennsylvania

Burning since 1962.

244 palomino  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:42:21pm

re: #238 NJDhockeyfan

Everyone who knows me knows I’m not like that. Stop trying to start something. I won’t play your silly little childish games tonight.

I don’t “know” you. I can only go by your comments. There are only a few people here I ever get into it with, disingenuous people like you.

245 Targetpractice  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:43:27pm

re: #236 Obdicut

And an explosion and fire at a coal plant could potentially create a fire so bad it couldn’t be put out. Nuclear is scary, but it is just because it’s such a different form of reaction.

Hell, while we’re on that subject, did you know there are 7 coal mines that are still burning to this day?

246 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:43:31pm

re: #208 ozbloke

Your lucky, you got updings for this.
I don’t know, what does make the risk of nuclear less tolerable than the others?
Is it a trick question?

Why do you feel this might be a trick question?

Do I have a reputation for asking trick questions?

247 JAFO  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:43:37pm

re: #227 Shiplord Kirel

Excellent point. Fossil fuels shorten and sometimes destroy human life even when they work perfectly.
Incidentally, coal produces its own form of radioactive contamination in the form of uranium and thorium impurities that are left in the coal ash after the coal itself has been burned. This is only a few parts per million but thanks to the gigatons of coal burned every year, it amounts to 800 tons of uranium and about twice that much thorium being dumped into the environment every year in the United States alone.
These trace impurities could produce more energy than burning the coal itself did. Some nuclear scientists have in fact suggested mining coal ash heaps as a handy source of nuclear fuel.

Well, to be fair uranium and thorium occur naturally, we even mine them. The thorium and uranium were already there in the coal and they are still there in the ash. Proper disposal would put them back in the ground where they came from. I’m a California liberal and participated in the beginning of the Ecological Movement back when it started in 1969. I’m not against conservation and toxic waste mitigation at all. It’s all relative and areas are shades of gray.

248 Boyo  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:44:09pm

re: #209 Dark_Falcon

And you, Stalker “PrivateJohnson”, are a sick hater who gets his jollies bashing a site you flounced from because the owner of it decided to to join your relocation to Hateville. Go take a long walk off a short pier.

[Flips the Stalker the bird.]

sheesh there you go addressing the stalkers again…you know if it wasnt for you I’d never know what those creeps were up to

249 albusteve  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:44:53pm

re: #241 Romantic Heretic

What are you going to use? Most of the troops are in Afghanistan and Iraq.

not us, others

250 Four More Tears  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:44:59pm

re: #245 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Hell, while we’re on that subject, did you know there are 7 coal mines that are still burning to this day?

And let me tell you, those things are Nothing but Trouble…

251 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:45:03pm

In 1970 a family of five that I actually knew were killed by a hydrogen sulfide leak in an oilfield near Denver City Texas. Four other people died in the same accident.
In the last 100 years something like 75,000 people have lost their lives in oilfield accidents in Texas alone. That is not a typo, seventy-five thousand. The toll is much lower than it used to be but it is still very dangerous work, with dozens of fatalities evey year.
The number who have died in coal mining accidents around the country is even higher, even if we don’t count black lung and God knows what else the stuff causes.
Nuclear energy would take millennia to catch up even if we include Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

252 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:45:21pm

re: #215 reine.de.tout

I am so distressed by the earthquake, the tsunami and the awful events going on in Japan right now, I can hardly think straight.

Same here. That’s probably why I’m not making my signature silly one liners.

253 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:45:26pm

re: #230 JasonA

Arrested Development getting canceled.

Cheney showed up at a director’s meeting with his shotgun and had it canceled. (Sourced from word on the street)

254 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:46:11pm

re: #235 ggt

Hey all,

I’m done being productive today.

what are you doing? besides participating in LGF.

About to get up and get a cold beer.

255 Achilles Tang  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:46:42pm

re: #249 albusteve

not us, others

I hear there are lots available for hire just south of Libya’s borders./

256 JAFO  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:46:56pm

re: #254 NJDhockeyfan

About to get up and get a cold beer.

pfft, I’ve done that 5 times already.

257 JAFO  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:47:48pm

and now I have to switch to R&C.

258 albusteve  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:47:59pm

re: #255 Naso Tang

I hear there are lots available for hire just south of Libya’s borders./

and the Saudis have the gold to pay for it…welcome back to the 18th century

259 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:48:31pm

re: #244 palomino

I don’t “know” you. I can only go by your comments. There are only a few people here I ever get into it with, disingenuous people like you.

In the immortal words of mandymanners…

“GO PISS UP A ROPE!”

260 aagcobb  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:48:40pm

re: #251 Shiplord Kirel

Good luck convincing Americans that a new reactor in their back yard is safe. Its like fear of flying; you can tell people that statistically flying is safer than driving until you are blue in the face, but that’s not going to get them on a plane.

261 reine.de.tout  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:49:08pm

re: #260 aagcobb

Good luck convincing Americans that a new reactor in their back yard is safe. Its like fear of flying; you can tell people that statistically flying is safer than driving until you are blue in the face, but that’s not going to get them on a plane.

No way will I get on a plane.
No way.

262 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:49:29pm

re: #195 b_sharp

What makes the risks of nuclear less tolerable than the others?

Radiation is scary!

Sorta/

263 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:50:09pm

re: #248 Boyo

sheesh there you go addressing the stalkers again…you know if it wasnt for you I’d never know what those creeps were up to

Earlier today, it was just a gag to test Ice’s new [ wingnut ] tag. This time, i took a look over there and saw the stalker’s insults aimed at me and felt a need to reply. I’ll not mention them tomorrow, on my word of honor.

264 palomino  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:50:36pm

re: #259 NJDhockeyfan

In the immortal words of mandymanners…

“GO PISS UP A ROPE!”

Brilliant, you’re quoting someone who got banned. For doing a lot of the same shit you do. Stay classy.

265 sagehen  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:50:37pm

re: #221 Dark_Falcon

Source?


I can’t quick-find full charts, but here’s an article about NYC costs:

[Link: articles.nydailynews.com…]

A New Yorker would have to make $123,322 a year to have the same standard of living as someone making $50,000 in Houston. In Manhattan, a $60,000 salary is equivalent to someone making $26,092 in Atlanta.You knew it was expensive to live in Manhattan, but Queens? The report tagged Queens the fifth most expensive urban area in the country.The average monthly rent in New York is $2,801, 53% higher than San Francisco, the second most expensive city in the country.

My apartment is currently worth 4x what I bought it for in 1987 — even with the downturn.

266 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:51:42pm

re: #262 Romantic Heretic

Radiation is scary!

Sorta/

I think it traces back to nuclear weapons. People hear “nuclear” and see a mushroom cloud.

267 HoosierHoops  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:51:57pm

re: #261 reine.de.tout

No way will I get on a plane.
No way.

I love to fly Reine!

268 Usually refered to as anyways  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:52:11pm

re: #246 b_sharp

Why do you feel this might be a trick question?

Do I have a reputation for asking trick questions?

I don’t know, do you have a reputation for trick questions.
I’m none for two.

You should give me a chance and ask me about something I stated, I will have more hope of answering the question.

269 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:52:13pm

re: #258 albusteve

and the Saudis have the gold to pay for it…welcome back to the 18th century

They listened to Glen Beck????

/

270 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:52:17pm

re: #264 palomino

Brilliant, you’re quoting someone who got banned. For doing a lot of the same shit you do. Stay classy.

Please post a list of ‘a lot of the same shit’ I do. I’m curious.

271 sagehen  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:52:38pm

re: #214 mracb

Exactly, the PG&E San Bruno gas pipeline explosion has killed more Americans than civilian nuclear energy in the USA.

But the land’s not contaminated and uninhabitable for the next thousand years.

272 Boyo  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:52:40pm

re: #263 Dark_Falcon

Earlier today, it was just a gag to test Ice’s new [ wingnut ] tag. This time, i took a look over there and saw the stalker’s insults aimed at me and felt a need to reply. I’ll not mention them tomorrow, on my word of honor.

is dark stalking the stalkers???
:o
/

273 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:52:46pm

re: #260 aagcobb

Good luck convincing Americans that a new reactor in their back yard is safe. Its like fear of flying; you can tell people that statistically flying is safer than driving until you are blue in the face, but that’s not going to get them on a plane.

Science is sooooo scary.

better the devil you know, like coal mining. …

274 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:52:49pm

Thursday’s Daily Show—Samantha Bee does an expose of the wild and crazy lifestyle of the American schoolteacher.

Currently, she’s sitting in the tub of a special ed teacher’s apartment, with the teacher, (both fully clothed), announcing that they should get some champagne and ‘rub it all over our boobs’.

“Uh-uh,” says the teacher.

275 albusteve  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:52:53pm

re: #267 HoosierHoops

I love to fly Reine!

so do I, in a well maintained plane
small planes are the bomb

276 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:53:27pm

re: #220 sagehen

The article in question was about cops and firefighters.

The article in question was about civil servant unions. Cops were used as an example but that was the only time they were singled out. Education unions were also singled out.

In over one hundred lines of text, cops were mentioned in one, firefighters not at all.

277 JAFO  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:53:32pm

re: #260 aagcobb

Good luck convincing Americans that a new reactor in their back yard is safe. Its like fear of flying; you can tell people that statistically flying is safer than driving until you are blue in the face, but that’s not going to get them on a plane.

I’m surrounded with about 8 oil refineries. at least once a year we have a shelter in place warning with sirens, automated calls and the Emergency Broadcast Ssystem announcements. Would I be worse off statistically?

278 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:53:38pm

re: #266 Dark_Falcon

I think it traces back to nuclear weapons. People hear “nuclear” and see a mushroom cloud.

The China Syndrome scared the shit out of me the first time I saw it.

279 palomino  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:53:39pm

re: #270 NJDhockeyfan

Please post a list of ‘a lot of the same shit’ I do. I’m curious.

I’m not going back into the archives to pull out every off topic far right wing story you’ve linked to. You’re a mindless partisan hack. Fuck off.

280 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:55:56pm

re: #279 palomino

I’m not going back into the archives to pull out every off topic far right wing story you’ve linked to. You’re a mindless partisan hack. Fuck off.

So you post some weak bullshit about me then fail to prove it. That’s an LVQ move!

LOL!!!

281 reine.de.tout  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:57:07pm

re: #267 HoosierHoops

I love to fly Reine!

I have flown, and I hate it, hate it, hate it. I become a complete babbling idiot (from nerves) when I’m on a plane. I will actually break out in tears when the damned plane finally touches down. Can’t help it.

Flew to St. Thomas, USVI, once. Scared the crap outta me. The plane kept getting lower, and lower, and lower, and all I could see was water, all around. Didn’t see an island. Didn’t see an airport or runway. Just water. And we kept getting lower and lower.

The damned runway there extends out into the water; and could not be seen from my side of the plane. I was about to get hysterical, when somebody finally explained it to me.

The Roi flies on a helicopter every 2 weeks; there is NO WAY I could ever do it.

282 Achilles Tang  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:57:14pm

re: #259 NJDhockeyfan

In the immortal words of mandymanners…

“GO PISS UP A ROPE!”

Anyone hear from Mandy?

283 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:57:15pm

re: #276 b_sharp

The article in question was about civil servant unions. Cops were used as an example but that was the only time they were singled out. Education unions were also singled out.

In over one hundred lines of text, cops were mentioned in one, firefighters not at all.

That’s because Firefighters make beef-cake calendars …

284 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:57:49pm

re: #224 aagcobb

What makes the risks of nuclear less tolerable than the others?

The risk of substantial regions of the country being rendered uninhabitable for thousands of years?

Substantial regions? Are you assuming Chernoble size accidents, or storage of spent rods? BTW, Chernoble won’t be uninhabitable for thousands of years.

285 martinsmithy  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:57:50pm

I’m going to quibble with this post not because I agree with the creationist nonsense bills being introduced by luddite members of the Republican Party, but rather because none of the bills mentioned in the article (and there are three specifically mentioned) have been introduced in the U.S. House of Representatives.

Does anyone know if any of the other bills being tracked have been entered in the U.S. House, as opposed to state legislatures?

286 The Mountain That Blogs  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:58:15pm

re: #278 NJDhockeyfan

How much did the fact that that movie was released 12 days before Three Mile Island set nuclear power back in this country?

287 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:58:16pm

re: #226 Dark_Falcon

Given the high quality of army boots these days, that’s no longer an insult.

I was just joking.

288 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:58:23pm

New video being shown on CNN right now. Amazing.

289 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:58:39pm

re: #281 reine.de.tout

I have flown, and I hate it, hate it, hate it. I become a complete babbling idiot (from nerves) when I’m on a plane. I will actually break out in tears when the damned plane finally touches down. Can’t help it.

Flew to St. Thomas, USVI, once. Scared the crap outta me. The plane kept getting lower, and lower, and lower, and all I could see was water, all around. Didn’t see an island. Didn’t see an airport or runway. Just water. And we kept getting lower and lower.

The damned runway there extends out into the water; and could not be seen from my side of the plane. I was about to get hysterical, when somebody finally explained it to me.

The Roi flies on a helicopter every 2 weeks; there is NO WAY I could ever do it.

I don’t mind the actual flying part. What I can’t stand is being at someone else’s mercy for the entire process, from purchasing the ticket to exiting at my destination. I hate feeling like a piece of cattle.

290 aagcobb  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:59:21pm

re: #277 mracb

Got me if you are or not. But oil’s not scary the way nuclear radiation is. Try to think of something related to oil that evokes the same reaction as the word Chernobyl does. I’m not saying the fear is rational, but its real, and it will make it next to impossible to build new nuclear reactors in the US.

291 palomino  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:59:25pm

re: #280 NJDhockeyfan

So you post some weak bullshit about me then fail to prove it. That’s an LVQ move!

LOL!!!

Every one of your mindless partisan posts is proof.

Didn’t you get banned last week?

292 reine.de.tout  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:59:39pm

re: #281 reine.de.tout

I have flown, and I hate it, hate it, hate it. I become a complete babbling idiot (from nerves) when I’m on a plane. I will actually break out in tears when the damned plane finally touches down. Can’t help it.

Flew to St. Thomas, USVI, once. Scared the crap outta me. The plane kept getting lower, and lower, and lower, and all I could see was water, all around. Didn’t see an island. Didn’t see an airport or runway. Just water. And we kept getting lower and lower.

The damned runway there extends out into the water; and could not be seen from my side of the plane. I was about to get hysterical, when somebody finally explained it to me.

The Roi flies on a helicopter every 2 weeks; there is NO WAY I could ever do it.

And gawd, don’t EVEN get me started on elevators that get stuck.

293 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:00:01pm

re: #261 reine.de.tout

No way will I get on a plane.
No way.

Neither will I. I will get IN a plane without a second thought though.
(filched from George Carlin)

294 jaunte  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:00:23pm

re: #281 reine.de.tout

Helicopters are a blast; much more fun than planes.

295 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:00:37pm

re: #290 aagcobb

Got me if you are or not. But oil’s not scary the way nuclear radiation is. Try to think of something related to oil that evokes the same reaction as the word Chernobyl does. I’m not saying the fear is rational, but its real, and it will make it next to impossible to build new nuclear reactors in the US.

Like I said earlier, we’re used to the idea that shit blows up, or poisons us. But radiation is this invisible THING, and we have so much pop culture about it already.

296 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:00:47pm

re: #286 The Mountain That Blogs

How much did the fact that that movie was released 12 days before Three Mile Island set nuclear power back in this country?

And then The Pepsi Syndrome a few days after that.

297 sagehen  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:00:51pm

re: #292 reine.de.tout

And gawd, don’t EVEN get me started on elevators that get stuck.

How are you at the dentist?

298 Kragar  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:00:51pm

How dare someone provide a cheaper, more efficient alternative!

Give Up Familiar Light Bulb? Not Without Fight, Some Say

Damn Obama…oh wait, Bush signed the law.

299 reine.de.tout  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:00:56pm

re: #294 jaunte

Helicopters are a blast; much more fun than planes.

Heh.
Quit now.
There. Is. No. Way.

300 JAFO  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:01:04pm

re: #288 NJDhockeyfan

New video being shown on CNN right now. Amazing.

That’s been on NHK for a while.

[Link: www3.nhk.or.jp…]

or for “hd”

[Link: jibtv.com…]

301 reine.de.tout  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:01:40pm

re: #297 sagehen

How are you at the dentist?

HA!
No problem.
It’s being somewhere OFF THE GROUND at the mercy of someone who’s not me that bothers me.

302 prairiefire  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:01:59pm

re: #215 reine.de.tout

I am so distressed by the earthquake, the tsunami and the awful events going on in Japan right now, I can hardly think straight.

It is hard to deal with. I have great respect for the first responders.

303 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:02:09pm

re: #291 palomino


Didn’t you get banned last week?

Yup, but I got better.

BTW…I’m still a DICK.

304 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:02:20pm

re: #265 sagehen

I can’t quick-find full charts, but here’s an article about NYC costs:

[Link: articles.nydailynews.com…]

My apartment is currently worth 4x what I bought it for in 1987 — even with the downturn.

Even so, should the city have been forced to pay such an increase? A good case can be made they should not have (though its a tough issue and a good case for paying the increase can be made). Honestly, i think any mediation should take a town’s economic circumstances into consideration. sometimes that may mean hardship for workers, but that is sometimes not avoidable.

305 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:02:28pm

re: #292 reine.de.tout

And gawd, don’t EVEN get me started on elevators that get stuck.

I absolutely hate flying. It is an inherited thing. My grandmother and aunt also hate flying.

I was so touched and honored when my grandma and aunt came to my college graduation, because they had to fly.

They got through the experience by drinking two vodkas with orange apiece on the 9 AM flight from San Diego to Oakland.

Then my aunt had to sit for an hour before she could get the rent-a-car.

306 JAFO  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:02:31pm

Oh, and according to NHK the magnitude was upgraded to 9.0.

307 Stanghazi  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:02:42pm

re: #259 NJDhockeyfan

In the immortal words of mandymanners…

“GO PISS UP A ROPE!”

You have got to be kidding

308 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:03:00pm

re: #298 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

How dare someone provide a cheaper, more efficient alternative!

Give Up Familiar Light Bulb? Not Without Fight, Some Say

Damn Obama…oh wait, Bush signed the law.

It wasn’t scary when he did it.

/

309 Gus  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:03:09pm

Record number of creationism bills? Damn, it’s only March. You know, give it up with the creationism BS already. It’s 2011 not 1511.

310 prairiefire  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:03:22pm

re: #303 NJDhockeyfan

nah, you’re not.

311 Targetpractice  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:03:26pm

re: #284 b_sharp

Substantial regions? Are you assuming Chernoble size accidents, or storage of spent rods? BTW, Chernoble won’t be uninhabitable for thousands of years.

Hell, people are living in the city of Chernobyl now. And as for Pripyat, the city everybody associates with the disaster, it’s safe enough that companies give tours of the buildings left behind.

312 reine.de.tout  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:03:41pm

re: #303 NJDhockeyfan

Yup, but I got better.

BTW…I’m still a DICK.

heh.
NJD - honestly - sometimes I find you a tad aggravating.
Then you get on a roll and you’re funny as hell, and your spirits are always on the up side.
Like tonight.

313 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:03:48pm

re: #306 mracb

Oh, and according to NHK the magnitude was upgraded to 9.0.

Is that on the Richter?

Not that it matter much at this point.

Mother of God.

314 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:04:07pm

Now we have two hall monitors trying to pick a fight. I missed the email.

315 palomino  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:04:08pm

re: #303 NJDhockeyfan

Yup, but I got better.

BTW…I’m still a DICK.

Oh I’ve known that for a long time.

Keep up the good work.

316 Achilles Tang  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:04:13pm

re: #301 reine.de.tout

HA!
No problem.
It’s being somewhere OFF THE GROUND at the mercy of someone who’s not me that bothers me.

How do you feel about surgery?

317 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:04:57pm

re: #262 Romantic Heretic

Radiation is scary!

Sorta/

Except when it’s used to diagnose diseases.

318 Achilles Tang  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:05:16pm

re: #305 SanFranciscoZionist


They got through the experience by drinking two vodkas with orange apiece on the 9 AM flight from San Diego to Oakland.

Then my aunt had to sit for an hour before she could get the rent-a-car.

Some metabolism she must have.

319 reine.de.tout  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:05:29pm

re: #316 Naso Tang

How do you feel about surgery?

Depends -is it happening on the ground or in the air?

320 albusteve  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:05:30pm

re: #316 Naso Tang

How do you feel about surgery?

sometimes I worry about dismemberment…how would I get around?

321 palomino  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:05:35pm

re: #309 Gus 802

Record number of creationism bills? Damn, it’s only March. You know, give it up with the creationism BS already. It’s 2011 not 1511.

Sadly it’s what happens when a majority of the gop base is composed of rabid evangelicals.

322 prairiefire  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:05:49pm

re: #292 reine.de.tout

And gawd, don’t EVEN get me started on elevators that get stuck.

Was St. Thomas nice?

323 reine.de.tout  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:06:04pm

re: #320 albusteve

sometimes I worry about dismemberment…how would I get around?

{{steve}}
Good to see you in fine form.

324 aagcobb  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:06:31pm

re: #284 b_sharp

BTW, Chernoble won’t be uninhabitable for thousands of years.

That will convince people nuclear power is safe: “If it melts down, your town won’t be uninhabitable for more than a couple of centuries, tops!”

325 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:06:52pm

re: #267 HoosierHoops

I love to fly Reine!

I wouldn’t say that where reine’s SO can see it.

326 Achilles Tang  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:06:55pm

re: #319 reine.de.tout

Depends -is it happening on the ground or in the air?

So, you are scared of flight surgeons too? :)

327 Gus  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:07:02pm

re: #321 palomino

Sadly it’s what happens when a majority of the gop base is composed of rabid evangelicals.

I’m not sure if it’s just their base. Frankly, it’s them too — the politicians themselves.

328 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:07:03pm

re: #318 Naso Tang

Some metabolism she must have.

She weighs about a hundred and ten pounds soaking wet.

329 reine.de.tout  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:07:13pm

re: #322 prairiefire

Was St. Thomas nice?

Gawjus!
Got married there.
On the beach.
At sunset.
Wedding and honeymoon at all-inclusive - total cost in 1991, $2500.
It was lovely, and perfect.

330 reine.de.tout  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:07:37pm

re: #325 b_sharp

I wouldn’t say that where reine’s SO can see it.

*spew*
You owe me a new cuppa tea!
LOLOLOL!

331 albusteve  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:07:50pm

re: #323 reine.de.tout

{{steve}}
Good to see you in fine form.

hey, first a leg, than another leg and arm…think about it…makes flying seem easy

332 reine.de.tout  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:08:03pm

re: #326 Naso Tang

So, you are scared of flight surgeons too? :)

Depends. Are they hot or not?

333 JAFO  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:08:11pm

re: #322 prairiefire

Was St. Thomas nice?

I can answer that. It’s really cool. It’s better to be on a 40’ sloop for 10 days, though.

334 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:08:11pm

re: #312 reine.de.tout

heh.
NJD - honestly - sometimes I find you a tad aggravating.
Then you get on a roll and you’re funny as hell, and your spirits are always on the up side.
Like tonight.

Thanks! I feel good tonight and LGF is always fun.

335 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:08:46pm

re: #305 SanFranciscoZionist

I absolutely hate flying. It is an inherited thing. My grandmother and aunt also hate flying.

I was so touched and honored when my grandma and aunt came to my college graduation, because they had to fly.

They got through the experience by drinking two vodkas with orange apiece on the 9 AM flight from San Diego to Oakland.

Then my aunt had to sit for an hour before she could get the rent-a-car.

Booze is a necessity when flying. Really takes the edge off.

336 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:09:22pm

re: #334 NJDhockeyfan

Thanks! I feel good tonight and LGF is always fun.

Watch your back side.

337 reine.de.tout  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:09:53pm

re: #335 marjoriemoon

Booze is a necessity when flying. Really takes the edge off.

Would take a LOT of booze.

338 Achilles Tang  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:09:55pm

re: #332 reine.de.tout

Depends. Are they hot or not?

See. You can beat this if you work on it. Check out the pilots next time, co pilot even.

339 palomino  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:10:34pm

re: #327 Gus 802

I’m not sure if it’s just their base. Frankly, it’s them too — the politicians themselves.

Scott Walker among them.

Evangelicals used to be evenly split between the parties before the 80’s. Then the influence of Falwell, Robertson, et al. moved the evangelicals to the gop, where their influence has grown and grown. Now the secular members of the party don’t know what to do, since the tiger they’ve been riding is very hard to tame.

340 prairiefire  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:10:43pm

re: #329 reine.de.tout

re: #333 mracb

I’d like to think about going to a sandy beach with a mellow surf. It sounds like St. Thomas is like that.
CNN on right now. I can hardly bear it and keep smudging my glasses up.

341 Achilles Tang  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:10:45pm

re: #335 marjoriemoon

Booze is a necessity when flying. Really takes the edge off.

Not after you land if it’s a long flight. Take my word for that.

342 Targetpractice  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:10:51pm

re: #317 b_sharp

Except when it’s used to diagnose diseases.

Or from a cellphone.

343 Kragar  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:11:15pm

re: #337 reine.de.tout

Would take a LOT of booze.

Booze helps everything.

Youtube Video
344 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:11:23pm

re: #268 ozbloke

I don’t know, do you have a reputation for trick questions.
I’m none for two.

You should give me a chance and ask me about something I stated, I will have more hope of answering the question.

You didn’t ask if my question was a trick question here?


Your lucky, you got updings for this.
I don’t know, what does make the risk of nuclear less tolerable than the others?
Is it a trick question?

I guess I must have misunderstood.

345 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:11:42pm

re: #337 reine.de.tout

Would take a LOT of booze.

I’m a cheap date. One good stiff drink and I turn into the Honey Badger :>

346 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:12:32pm

re: #325 b_sharp

I wouldn’t say that where reine’s SO can see it.

Heh…now that’s funny :)

347 HoosierHoops  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:13:04pm

re: #330 reine.de.tout

*spew*
You owe me a new cuppa tea!
LOLOLOL!

LOL..I have flown over the Grand Canyon..the Rockey mountains..All of California..Europe…I love flying..

348 Targetpractice  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:13:28pm

re: #343 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Booze helps everything.

[Video]

Youtube Video
349 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:13:40pm

re: #283 ggt

That’s because Firefighters make beef-cake calendars …

Good way to raise money.

350 firstinla  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:13:51pm

re: #345 marjoriemoon

I’m a cheap date. One good stiff drink and I turn into the Honey Badger :>

We can go in all kinds of directions with that post!

351 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:13:55pm

re: #337 reine.de.tout

Would take a LOT of booze.

I have a friend that has flown once, I think in the last 25 years. Doctor gave her a couple of prescriptions to get her thru.

352 prairiefire  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:13:59pm

re: #345 marjoriemoon

I’m a cheap date. One good stiff drink and I turn into the Honey Badger :>

But do you give a shit?

353 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:14:26pm

re: #336 Walter L. Newton

Watch your back side.

Ewww…I think I’ll keep from commenting on that one.
Thanks for the warning.
;)

354 palomino  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:14:37pm

re: #343 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Booze helps everything.

[Video]

As Homer Simpson says, “Here’s to alcohol—the cause of, and solution to, all of life’s problems.”

355 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:14:38pm

re: #352 prairiefire

But do you give a shit?

Oh yea, and I don’t give a shit either lol

356 Usually refered to as anyways  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:14:39pm

re: #344 b_sharp

You didn’t ask if my question was a trick question here?

I guess I must have misunderstood.

I think you missed my #194


I didn’t really read all the article, I posted it because someone posted earlier ‘How long will it be before greens start using this as an excuse?’

I posted the article, cos we had a winner.

357 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:14:50pm

re: #294 jaunte

Helicopters are a blast; much more fun than planes.

Back when I was young and didn’t know better, I flew choppers for Uncle Sam. As you can see, I survived; but I did develop a healthy dislike for the diabolical contraptions: A huge collection of parts, each made by the lowest bidder, swirling around trying to tear each other apart in the midst of a self-induced tornado. The most crucial part is aptly known as a “Jesus nut.” This is the none-too-hefty chunk of metal that (usually) holds the rotor on.

358 Kragar  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:15:09pm

re: #352 prairiefire

But do you give a shit?

I think the real question “EW, WHATS THAT IN ITS MOUTH?”

359 prairiefire  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:15:24pm

SNL now, that’s better.

360 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:15:31pm

re: #349 b_sharp

Good way to raise money.

I think it’s a great idea … :)

361 jaunte  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:15:52pm

re: #357 Shiplord Kirel

I’m glad the Jesus nut brought you home.

362 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:15:57pm

re: #350 firstinla

We can go in all kinds of directions with that post!

There is just one way,

marjoriemom just don’t give a shit …

363 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:16:46pm

re: #331 albusteve

hey, first a leg, than another leg and arm…think about it…makes flying seem easy

Just for you Steve…

Youtube Video
364 JAFO  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:16:59pm

re: #340 prairiefire

re: #333 mracb

I’d like to think about going to a sandy beach with a mellow surf. It sounds like St. Thomas is like that.
CNN on right now. I can hardly bear it and keep smudging my glasses up.

if you have Google Earth there is an island at N 18.45 W 64.71 that will make you very happy. It is called ‘Sandy Spit’ iirc. you can walk around it in about 15 minutes.

365 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:17:25pm

re: #354 palomino

As Homer Simpson says, “Here’s to alcohol—the cause of, and solution to, all of life’s problems.”

hehe I used to love it when it was a fun adventure. Now it’s a pain in the patoot.

366 prairiefire  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:17:41pm

re: #364 mracb

Thanks.

367 reine.de.tout  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:18:17pm

re: #357 Shiplord Kirel

Back when I was young and didn’t know better, I flew choppers for Uncle Sam. As you can see, I survived; but I did develop a healthy dislike for the diabolical contraptions: A huge collection of parts, each made by the lowest bidder, swirling around trying to tear each other apart in the midst of a self-induced tornado. The most crucial part is aptly known as a “Jesus nut.” This is the none-too-hefty chunk of metal that (usually) holds the rotor on.

The Roi has to go to this helicopter escape training every couple of years - there’s some lecture or something, and then they put everyone in a helicopter and turn it upside down and dunk it into a pool of water, and everyone has to get out, from upside down in the helicopter under water.

368 palomino  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:18:35pm

re: #365 marjoriemoon

hehe I used to love it when it was a fun adventure. Now it’s a pain in the patoot.

just as insidious as cocaine or heroin. and just as deadly in the long run.

369 Achilles Tang  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:18:44pm

re: #347 HoosierHoops

LOL..I have flown over the Grand Canyon..the Rockey mountains..All of California..Europe…I love flying..

My favorite route has always been coming in over Greenland, then Newfoundland and Canada at 40,000 feet on a clear day. Feels almost like pictures from space and no visible signs of civilization for mile after mile after mile. I still remember once with icebergs sticking up into the clear through light sea fog……

370 prairiefire  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:19:05pm

re: #367 reine.de.tout

The Roi has to go to this helicopter escape training every couple of years - there’s some lecture or something, and then they put everyone in a helicopter and turn it upside down and dunk it into a pool of water, and everyone has to get out, from upside down in the helicopter under water.

Good lord.

371 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:19:27pm

re: #367 reine.de.tout

The Roi has to go to this helicopter escape training every couple of years - there’s some lecture or something, and then they put everyone in a helicopter and turn it upside down and dunk it into a pool of water, and everyone has to get out, from upside down in the helicopter under water.

I can’t do small planes, helicopters or even boats anymore. I turn green and head for the porcelain God.

372 Achilles Tang  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:19:46pm

re: #345 marjoriemoon

I’m a cheap date. One good stiff drink and I turn into the Honey Badger :>

Thanks for the warning.

373 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:19:49pm

re: #368 palomino

just as insidious as cocaine or heroin. and just as deadly in the long run.

Flying or drinking?

:)

374 reine.de.tout  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:19:50pm

re: #369 Naso Tang

My favorite route has always been coming in over Greenland, then Newfoundland and Canada at 40,000 feet on a clear day. Feels almost like pictures from space and no visible signs of civilization for mile after mile after mile. I still remember once with icebergs sticking up into the clear through light sea fog…

You see - that’s why God invented cameras and photography - so people like me can get to see those views without having to ever step into an airplane.

375 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:20:13pm

re: #324 aagcobb

That will convince people nuclear power is safe: “If it melts down, your town won’t be uninhabitable for more than a couple of centuries, tops!”

I wasn’t suggesting it would. I was suggesting it is an unreasonable scare tactic.

We accept non-zero probabilities of death in many of our activities. I find it strange we demand a zero probability from something that we really need right now.

376 palomino  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:20:15pm

re: #369 Naso Tang

My favorite route has always been coming in over Greenland, then Newfoundland and Canada at 40,000 feet on a clear day. Feels almost like pictures from space and no visible signs of civilization for mile after mile after mile. I still remember once with icebergs sticking up into the clear through light sea fog…

Flying over Greenland you think you’re looking at another planet.

377 palomino  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:21:15pm

re: #373 marjoriemoon

Flying or drinking?

:)

One nice thing about alcohol—it makes really long flights more bearable.

378 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:22:16pm

re: #345 marjoriemoon

I’m a cheap date. One good stiff drink and I turn into the Honey Badger :>

Now a not-nice fellow could say something snide with that, but I shall refrain, since it is quite funny. And because I know that Miss Honey Badger’s claws are sharp.

Even members of the Lizard Army should fear the Honey Badger:

Youtube Video
379 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:22:34pm

re: #377 palomino

One nice thing about alcohol—it makes really long flights more bearable.

As long as someone is picking me up on the other end, they can carry me off the plane, I don’t care. (I haven’t been carried off a plane… yet… but there’s always tequila.)

380 Achilles Tang  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:22:48pm

re: #374 reine.de.tout

You see - that’s why God invented cameras and photography - so people like me can get to see those views without having to ever step into an airplane.

Trust me, it’s like the difference between real sex and a DVD (VHS in my case).

381 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:23:06pm

re: #378 Dark_Falcon

Now a not-nice fellow could say something snide with that, but I shall refrain, since it is quite funny. And because I know that Miss Honey Badger’s claws are sharp.

Even members of the Lizard Army should fear the Honey Badger:

[Video]

If I made you all laugh, than my mission is done here.

382 aagcobb  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:23:27pm

re: #375 b_sharp


We accept non-zero probabilities of death in many of our activities. I find it strange we demand a zero probability from something that we really need right now.

You shouldn’t find it strange; its human nature. Just look at the posts people have been posting about flying.

383 palomino  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:24:01pm

re: #381 marjoriemoon

If I made you all laugh, than my mission is done here.

If you’re a honey badger after ONE drink, what the heck are you after 3 or 4?

384 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:24:49pm

re: #383 palomino

If you’re a honey badger after ONE drink, what the heck are you after 3 or 4?

I may have been exaggerating a tad…

Srsly, I stay far away from tequila though.

385 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:26:37pm

re: #378 Dark_Falcon

Now a not-nice fellow could say something snide with that, but I shall refrain, since it is quite funny. And because I know that Miss Honey Badger’s claws are sharp.

Even members of the Lizard Army should fear the Honey Badger:

[Video]

OMG!

Not a Monitor Lizard!!!!!

Honey Badger, I can’t believe you would do that.

386 Achilles Tang  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:26:51pm

Don’t forget to set your clocks.

Goodnight.

387 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:26:55pm

re: #380 Naso Tang

Trust me, it’s like the difference between real sex and a DVD (VHS in my case).

…or the difference between sex with that pretty girl from the office or the plastic girl from the cardboard box.

388 JAFO  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:26:57pm

Last week I went out on a tall ship. It’s relevant because they are supposed to make passage this week up to Eureka. That may be interesting considering the tsunami. I don’t know if their harbor had any problems but others in the area did. I’m hoping to make passage back from Washington to SF in the fall. I think that would be a trip of a lifetime, well besides around the world on a sailboat.

I hope this link works because it seems to be not on my images page.

Image: cimg0923o.jpg

This boat was used as the HMS Interceptor in P.o.t.C.

389 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:27:33pm

re: #335 marjoriemoon

Booze is a necessity when flying. Really takes the edge off.

That’s kind of funny to me.

I love flying. Done a lot of it and understand it very well. I really should get my sport pilots license.

That said, there was one time I wanted booze while flying. Desperately. But couldn’t have any. See, I was visiting in Japan and in a moment of cheapness visited Thailand. Cheapness? Well, I chose the cheapest possible airline from Narita to Bangkok. On the way to Bangkok, I had a crew that was ok. Competent but not much more. On the way back to Narita, they almost dumped us in Tokyo bay by undershooting the the runway with a 6 month old 757. Twice. On a single landing approach. If you know what you are listening to, the scream of the twin engines spooling up is terrifying. To hear it twice in the space of 5 minutes? I could have killed for 100 proof courage. But it wasn’t going to happen that day.

I was flying Egypt Air. :banghead:

390 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:27:49pm

re: #378 Dark_Falcon

I am, however, close to the ground with sharp claws :>

391 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:28:04pm

re: #251 Shiplord Kirel

In 1970 a family of five that I actually knew were killed by a hydrogen sulfide leak in an oilfield near Denver City Texas. Four other people died in the same accident.
In the last 100 years something like 75,000 people have lost their lives in oilfield accidents in Texas alone. That is not a typo, seventy-five thousand. The toll is much lower than it used to be but it is still very dangerous work, with dozens of fatalities evey year.
The number who have died in coal mining accidents around the country is even higher, even if we don’t count black lung and God knows what else the stuff causes.
Nuclear energy would take millennia to catch up even if we include Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Good point. But to be fair, uranium mining isn’t exactly perfectly safe either.

392 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:28:38pm

Overnight thread is up and I have to go to sleep.

Have a great overnight all!

393 reine.de.tout  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:28:41pm

re: #388 mracb

Last week I went out on a tall ship. It’s relevant because they are supposed to make passage this week up to Eureka. That may be interesting considering the tsunami. I don’t know if their harbor had any problems but others in the area did. I’m hoping to make passage back from Washington to SF in the fall. I think that would be a trip of a lifetime, well besides around the world on a sailboat.

I hope this link works because it seems to be not on my images page.

Image: cimg0923o.jpg

This boat was used as the HMS Interceptor in P.o.t.C.

Not working for me.

394 reine.de.tout  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:29:18pm

Movin’ on > > > >

395 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:29:26pm

re: #385 ggt

OMG!

Not a Monitor Lizard!!!

Honey Badger, I can’t believe you would do that.

Honey Badger doesn’t care if the monitor posts on LGF, Honey Badger doesn’t give a shit.

/I had to say it.

396 JAFO  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:30:37pm

pfft

397 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:30:41pm

re: #386 Naso Tang

Don’t forget to set your clocks.

Goodnight.

I don’t have to change my clocks. I live in one of the few places in NA that doesn’t do ‘spring forward, fall back’.

398 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:32:38pm

re: #367 reine.de.tout

The Roi has to go to this helicopter escape training every couple of years - there’s some lecture or something, and then they put everyone in a helicopter and turn it upside down and dunk it into a pool of water, and everyone has to get out, from upside down in the helicopter under water.

I am familiar with that sadistic ritual. Being upside down in the water might actually be an advantage since you wouldn’t have to get past the rotor.
I never actually came down in the water but I did make an emergency landing in the parking lot of an A&P supermarket in Mount Holly NC. The cause was transmission failure. I saw nothing but green-clad hills immediately below with the whole city of Charlotte between us and the airport. The parking lot materialized out of the early morning haze. Lacking any choice, I auto-rotated down to a much less than perfect landing. The rotor stopped very quickly and there was a strong smell of burning oil, so we exited the machine in some haste. The first person to reach the scene could have passed for the late Junior Samples’ twin brother. The store manager and a small crowd of shoppers arrived next, followed by most of the fire trucks in both Carolinas (there was no fire), a couple of ambulances (nobody was hurt), and a veritable horde of media types and freelance gawkers. There were also police, a lot of them. For a wild moment I thought they might arrest us but they took statements then took us to the airport. The Army sent a U-8 Seminole utility plane for us and a big flatbed truck for the chopper.

399 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:33:25pm

re: #397 b_sharp

I don’t have to change my clocks. I live in one of the few places in NA that doesn’t do ‘spring forward, fall back’.

Arizona?

400 Four More Tears  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:33:55pm

re: #399 Dark_Falcon

Arizona?

Nah, he’s a Canuck.

401 JAFO  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:37:22pm

re: #386 Naso Tang

Don’t forget to set your clocks.

Goodnight.

My clocks set themselves.

402 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:37:55pm

re: #400 JasonA

Nah, he’s a Canuck.

Thanks.

403 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:38:51pm

re: #397 b_sharp

I don’t have to change my clocks. I live in one of the few places in NA that doesn’t do ‘spring forward, fall back’.

I wish we didn’t have to do it. I fail to see it making our lives better.

404 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:39:24pm

re: #400 JasonA

Nah, he’s a Canuck.

They have clocks up there?

405 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:39:43pm

Rage Against the Toaster. A new group with Tom Toastrello and Zack de la Muffin.

406 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:40:02pm

Oops wrong thread lol

407 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:41:08pm

re: #404 NJDhockeyfan

They have clocks up there?

Moose powered Sundials.

408 Four More Tears  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:41:11pm

re: #404 NJDhockeyfan

They have clocks up there?

Yes. I believe the time in Montreal is now 12:40 Eh M…

409 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:42:09pm

re: #407 b_sharp

Moose powered Sundials.

Sweet!

410 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sat, Mar 12, 2011 9:49:59pm

Rage against the appliance? NO! Rage against the science!


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