MSNBC’s Ed Schultz: Laura Ingraham is a ‘Right Wing Slut’

The left wing Limbaugh?
Media • Views: 35,297

Speaking of misogyny, it doesn’t smell any better coming from a lefty like Ed Schultz: MSNBC’s Ed Schultz Calls Radio Host Laura Ingraham A ‘Right Wing Slut’.

“President Obama is going to be visiting Joplin, Mo., on Sunday but you know what they’re talking about, like this right-wing slut, what’s her name?, Laura Ingraham?” he said on his radio show. “Yeah, she’s a talk slut. You see, she was, back in the day, praising President Reagan when he was drinking a beer overseas. But now that Obama’s doing it, they’re working him over.”

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421 comments
1 recusancy  Wed, May 25, 2011 11:59:01am

Schultz is an embarrassment.

2 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, May 25, 2011 11:59:17am

Ed Schultz is really annoying IMO and not surprised he’d say something like this. He’s a douche bag.

3 Simply Sarah  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:00:08pm

Oh for fuck sake. When will people learn that you can attack someone for their actions and ideas without insulting and deeming both the target and an entire group of people through the use of unwarranted, vulgar, and thoughtless personal attacks.

4 APox  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:00:20pm

It’s obnoxious because his talking points can be just as absurd as the rights — and for the people on the left the talking points DON’T have to mirror the rights…

We can use something called facts and logic to actually debunk 100% of what they say. Why step down to their level?

5 lawhawk  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:00:25pm

Ed, you ignorant slut. /dan ackroyd

6 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:00:33pm

Look I know it is dangerous for me to comment on this - but honestly, self promoting political prostitutes male or female deserve harsh language. If the S word is not liked, choose another of equal strength.

7 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:01:24pm

OT but: more big tornado warnings for the midwest

8 jamesfirecat  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:01:33pm

God, why can’t we just have three hours of Rachel Maddow who actually knows how to fight with facts rather than needless name calling?

9 shutdown  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:01:42pm

He is one of the Democratic “non-voices” to which I referred a few threads back. He is a far-left talking head with no serious policy heft, and cannot be an organizing force for mainstream voters. What a douche. He may as well go hang out with Trump.

10 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:02:00pm

re: #6 LudwigVanQuixote

How about sticking to the issues, and leaving the name-calling to the gutter dwellers?

11 albusteve  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:02:05pm

what a circus….a bunch of monkeys in suits that mimic each other

12 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:02:14pm

re: #6 LudwigVanQuixote

Look I know it is dangerous for me to comment on this - but honestly, self promoting political prostitutes male or female deserve harsh language. If the S word is not liked, choose another of equal strength.

Actually I kind of agree with you. He’s a radio/talk slut himself.

13 Decatur Deb  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:02:21pm

re: #1 recusancy

re: #2 Dreggas

Yes, and yes. We have to think about the things we can do to control his BS. (Nothing.) That should give a little grace to the RW when they fail to muzzle their rabid curs.

14 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:02:25pm

Or in other words, there was a preacher who commented in a sermon,
that:

Last night 20,000 children died of starvation and most of you don’t give a damn.

What’s worse is that you are more upset about me saying Damn than the fact that 20,000 children died last night.

15 jamesfirecat  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:02:28pm

re: #6 LudwigVanQuixote

Look I know it is dangerous for me to comment on this - but honestly, self promoting political prostitutes male or female deserve harsh language. If the S word is not liked, choose another of equal strength.

Sellout, Shill and Sycophant work well for me personally.

16 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:02:42pm

re: #12 Dreggas

Actually I kind of agree with you. He’s a radio/talk slut himself.

Of course he is.

17 Targetpractice  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:02:47pm

re: #6 LudwigVanQuixote

Look I know it is dangerous for me to comment on this - but honestly, self promoting political prostitutes male or female deserve harsh language. If the S word is not liked, choose another of equal strength.

I can see what you’re saying, but when you’re getting on your opponent for name-calling, calling him names in return doesn’t bolster your case.

18 makeitstop  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:03:20pm

This is why I stopped listening to talk radio a long, long time ago.

I don’t like Ingraham in the least, but c’mon, Ed.

19 albusteve  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:03:30pm

re: #6 LudwigVanQuixote

Look I know it is dangerous for me to comment on this - but honestly, self promoting political prostitutes male or female deserve harsh language. If the S word is not liked, choose another of equal strength.

right, let’s get back to jr high school

20 SidewaysQuark  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:04:05pm

Clowns to the left of me and jokers to the right.

21 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:04:09pm

Comedic commercial break:

No Shame!

Youtube Video
22 shutdown  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:04:13pm

What if I admit to not listening to either Ingraham or Schultz (or Beck, Limbaugh, etc.)? What a waste of time.

23 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:04:15pm

What does that make Ed Schultz then? A left wing Bro-ho?

24 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:04:25pm

re: #17 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Yes, but it isn’t name calling if it is true. Metaphorically speaking, these pundits are all self promoting whores.

25 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:06:07pm

re: #22 imp_62

Then I’d say you’re an Imp with more productive things to do with it’s time.

26 Decatur Deb  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:07:12pm

The infuriating thing is that the mention of his name, and certainly any effort to alert his bosses, just increases his market value.

27 shutdown  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:07:29pm

re: #25 Slumbering Behemoth

Then I’d say you’re an Imp with more productive things to do with it’s time.

That would be a compliment, except for the fact that lying prone in a puddle of my own vomit, trying to remember the previous night, would be more productive than listening to any of these “hosts” (actually, we are the hosts, they are parasites).

28 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:07:46pm

re: #19 albusteve

right, let’s get back to jr high school

I’m sorry steve, the idea of YOU of all people whining about name calling and picking fights, was hypocrisy of such magnitude that it possibly caused seismic activity on the moon.

29 Targetpractice  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:08:03pm

re: #24 LudwigVanQuixote

Yes, but it isn’t name calling if it is true. Metaphorically speaking, these pundits are all self promoting whores.

And like I said, I agree with you on that sentiment. But facts and quotations do more to show that to an audience than simple name-calling does.

30 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:08:05pm

re: #22 imp_62

What if I admit to not listening to either Ingraham or Schultz (or Beck, Limbaugh, etc.)? What a waste of time.

I usually catch the first 10 or 15 minutes of Rush, just because of my commute, and I want to hear what the latest stupidity of the day is. The rest of the time, I have better things to do.

31 wrenchwench  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:08:23pm

re: #24 LudwigVanQuixote

Yes, but it isn’t name calling if it is true. Metaphorically speaking, these pundits are all self promoting whores.

You’re accustomed to me going after you in situations like this.

[insert rant here]

You pretty much know what I would say anyway, I’ll let you fill it in while I go take a break.

32 Charles Johnson  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:09:01pm

re: #24 LudwigVanQuixote

Yes, but it isn’t name calling if it is true. Metaphorically speaking, these pundits are all self promoting whores.

It’s inherently sexist and degrading to use a term like ‘slut’ to describe a woman. It’s possible to strongly criticize female media figures without resorting to sexist slurs.

33 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:09:11pm

re: #31 wrenchwench

You are laboring under the false impression I would bother to do so. Let me correct that.

34 suchislife  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:09:39pm

re: #32 Charles

Yes. Exactly.

35 albusteve  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:10:01pm

re: #28 LudwigVanQuixote

I’m sorry steve, the idea of YOU of all people whining about name calling and picking fights, was hypocrisy of such magnitude that it possibly caused seismic activity on the moon.

I’m not whining and I don’t pick fights….you have an active imagination…no need to escalate the rhetoric like we are TV heads, let’s try to be civil

36 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:10:24pm

re: #24 LudwigVanQuixote

No. They are far worse than ‘whores’.

Most women who are prostitutes aren’t there because they decided one idea that it was a good idea to let themselves have dangerous sex with strangers. Many were coerced into it by a ‘boyfriend’, many are addicts to extremely powerful drugs that its difficult, if not impossible, to kick, many are literally forced into it. Much of prostitution is, in fact, rape.

Likewise, there is nothing inherently negative about a ‘slut’. Using it as a pejorative (unless you’re Dan Akroyd) is stupid, because the word is essentially meaningless. It just means “Woman who sleeps with X number of people”, where X is whatever the subjective dude saying ‘slut’ decides.

That’s why terms like that are idiotic to apply to people who sell their integrity for money. These people aren’t being forced into this, they haven’t been tricked, they’re not at the bottom rung of the economic ladder. And they’re not just expressing their sexuality in a way that others find too explicit.

It makes no sense to call them sluts and whores, because those terms, if you actually think about them, aren’t insults. A whore is a woman who needs help. A slut is an undefined state.

Call them what they are, instead: they’re fraudsters, phonies, con-men, grifters, know-nothings.

Using words like ‘slut’ just winds up with collateral damage to ordinary women who hate hearing that word. There’s nothing gained, and a lot lost.

37 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:10:35pm

re: #32 Charles

It’s possible to strongly criticize female media figures without resorting to sexist slurs.

That requires a desire to do so, and an effort to engage one’s brain.

38 Vicious Babushka  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:10:36pm

Usually the term “douche bag” is applied to men, but there’s no reason why it can’t also describe a woman. Although, it just seems terribly sexist to call a woman a “douche bag.”

39 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:11:59pm

re: #32 Charles

It’s inherently sexist and degrading to use a term like ‘slut’ to describe a woman. It’s possible to strongly criticize female media figures without resorting to sexist slurs.

And you will note I am not using the word. Language changes. People’s sense of offense changes. I don’t have a problem with coming up with new words to describe the same disgusting behaviors, because the old ones are now taboo.

But, I am not going to get into a debate about what is inherently sexist with anyone since looking at my many, many posts, I have always been quite in support of feminism in general.

40 funky chicken  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:12:30pm

I’m stunned MSNBC hired this guy. I heard him once or twice on the radio when I was waiting for some kid sports practice to end, and he is a complete moron. WTF dudes, there are a lot more interesting, intelligent, and attractive commentators out there. You could have hired somebody decent, and instead… Ed Schultz? Really?

41 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:12:53pm

re: #36 Obdicut

Excellently stated, bro. Bravo!

42 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:13:07pm

Bryan Fischer: Obama isn’t a real black man

He can’t talk enough about how white he is and how white his heritage is. And you compare that to, say, Herman Cain - you know, Herman Cain was just joking around about being the real Black man in the presidential race and President Obama kind of helping reinforce what Herman Cain has said in jest.

President Obama is half-white, and half-black; Herman Cain is all black; he’s authentically black; he is the real black man in the race.

So we’ll see how all of that plays out. I mean, President Obama celebrating his Irish heritage, I mean there is just something about that I just find, I just find that comical, frankly.

43 recusancy  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:13:26pm

re: #40 funky chicken

I’m stunned MSNBC hired this guy. I heard him once or twice on the radio when I was waiting for some kid sports practice to end, and he is a complete moron. WTF dudes, there are a lot more interesting, intelligent, and attractive commentators out there. You could have hired somebody decent, and instead… Ed Schultz? Really?

There’s not a log of brain power at the head of MSNBC. The only reason Maddow got a job was because Olberman lobbied for her so hard.

44 funky chicken  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:13:33pm

re: #36 Obdicut

AMEN

45 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:14:14pm

Come on Ed, why pull your punches, you know that you really wanted to call her a c**t not a slut. When are you left wing liberal media people that we all know are controlled by Soros going to start acting like it? If you ask me he isn’t getting nearly his moneys worth…

///

46 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:14:24pm

re: #36 Obdicut

So political whore - a metaphor used by everyone, and understood by everyone is now taboo because you are taking the phrase literally?

Ridiculous.

You understand the information content of “political whore” precisely and that it as nothing at all to do with actual sex workers.

47 sproingie  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:15:05pm

Even without the epithets, Ed Schultz is a pompous windbag, and we’d all be better off without him polluting our airwaves. I don’t mind a news show getting occasionally loud and contentious, but shows like his are deliberately produced for that. It’s Jerry Springer with less fistfights.

48 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:15:37pm

Classy.

49 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:15:53pm

re: #46 LudwigVanQuixote

So political whore - a metaphor used by everyone, and understood by everyone is now taboo because you are taking the phrase literally?

Ridiculous.

You understand the information content of “political whore” precisely and that it as nothing at all to do with actual sex workers.

I think it’s kind of like monkey or ape. Because of past history, there’s a difference between using that word with one group or another.

History matters.

50 funky chicken  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:15:54pm

re: #42 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Bryan Fischer: Obama isn’t a real black man

Holy Shit. This guy has to be a creation of the Kremlin or something. Maybe he escaped from Area 51…LOL…

51 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:16:18pm

re: #3 Simply Sarah

Oh for fuck sake. When will people learn that you can attack someone for their actions and ideas without insulting and deeming both the target and an entire group of people through the use of unwarranted, vulgar, and thoughtless personal attacks.

Also, frankly, if you’re going to personally attack a woman…just call her an asshole. Just like you would a man.

//

52 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:16:53pm

re: #49 EmmmieG

This is not worth bickering over.

53 shutdown  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:17:11pm

re: #42 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Bryan Fischer: Obama isn’t a real black man

There is a cultural sub-text here that as a European Caucasian (albeit Jewish), I cannot really follow or fully comprehend. Discussions of relative “blackness” seem to be fairly common amongst and between black Americans; note the verbal sparring going on between Donovan McNabb and Bernard Hopkins.
Bernard Hopkins Clumsily Defends His Comments About Donovan McNabb

54 albusteve  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:17:34pm

re: #52 LudwigVanQuixote

This is not worth bickering over.

bad odds amigo

55 Max  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:17:42pm

I didn’t even know this buffoon was still on the air. Are his ratings still lower than airport radar?

56 HoosierHoops  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:17:44pm

There was a day when politicians could disagree strongly during the day and go out for a drink together at night.. Those days are gone..
BTW..When I talked to Pops last night he was talking about the Maddow show…Now that I am a registered Dem he feels he has to direct me on the right path.. Gosh I love that man.. Not once all these years did he personally criticize me but would just talk about policy between the parties…Guess pops was right after all

57 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:17:46pm

Ed Schultz is a douche. Afternoon Honcos.

58 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:18:08pm

re: #24 LudwigVanQuixote

Yes, but it isn’t name calling if it is true. Metaphorically speaking, these pundits are all self promoting whores.

That’s nice. But what Schultz, a pundit himself, is banking on is that if you’re really mad at a woman, the best thing to do is call her a whore.

Fuck that shit.

59 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:18:50pm

re: #51 SanFranciscoZionist

Also, frankly, if you’re going to personally attack a woman…just call her an asshole. Just like you would a man.

//

But “asshole” just doesn’t have the same emotional impact as slurs intended to demean or demonize a woman’s sexuality.

60 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:18:59pm

Rick Santorum on his detractors;


if I was right and they were wrong, then one of two things. That they will repent and they will be my brothers in heaven and so why should I think ill of them now just because right now they are doing things that are wrong. Or they will not repent and they will be damned to eternal damnation and what kind of man am I that would hate someone who is to be pitied as such?” And so, that’s sort of the way I look at it.

61 Four More Tears  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:19:02pm

So TPM is reporting that Reid will most likely bring the Ryan Plan to a vote today. Looking forward to seeing how that turns out.

62 shutdown  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:19:17pm

re: #56 HoosierHoops

There was a day when politicians could disagree strongly during the day and go out for a drink together at night.. Those days are gone..
BTW..When I talked to Pops last night he was talking about the Maddow show…Now that I am a registered Dem he feels he has to direct me on the right path.. Gosh I love that man.. Not once all these years did he personally criticize me but would just talk about policy between the parties…Guess pops was right after all

Father Knows Best lol

63 Vicious Babushka  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:19:35pm

The sky has turned dark green. I’m hoping it’s just the color of the glass. People are already talking about heading for the stairwells.

64 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:19:49pm

re: #52 LudwigVanQuixote

This is not worth bickering over.


I’m not looking to bicker with anyone (I live with the bickering experts, namely, children.)

However, women are far more often on the receiving end of sexual slurs.

Schultz should get a vocabulary.

65 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:19:49pm

Maybe Schultz would be nicer to her if he knew she is a breast cancer survivor. Prolly not.

66 shutdown  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:19:51pm

re: #57 Cannadian Club Akbar

Ed Schultz is a douche. Afternoon Honcos.

How was your yesterday? Didn’t you walk 35 miles to make dinner for someone?

67 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:20:05pm

re: #63 Alouette

The sky has turned dark green. I’m hoping it’s just the color of the glass. People are already talking about heading for the stairwells.

Be safe. Please.

68 [deleted]  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:20:13pm
69 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:20:37pm

re: #46 LudwigVanQuixote

So political whore - a metaphor used by everyone, and understood by everyone is now taboo because you are taking the phrase literally?/blockquote>

Not exactly. “Political whore” is a pretty anondyne insult; I was talking about just calling women sluts and whores. But think about it: political whore is like calling someone a political monkey or political savage, either of which, if they were applied to Obama, would be rather obviously racist. Maybe someone, unthinking, would use that phrase, but that doesn’t make the phrase less racist.

70 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:20:42pm

re: #42 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Bryan Fischer: Obama isn’t a real black man

Maybe Bryan Fischer and Cornel West can hold a conference on Barack Obama’s inadequate blackness.

//WTF? Seriously, if you mention any ancestors who weren’t black, this disqualifies you from being ‘the real black man in the race’? Never mind that the job isn’t ‘official black man to the United States’, the job is ‘President’.

71 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:20:48pm

re: #66 imp_62

How was your yesterday? Didn’t you walk 35 miles to make dinner for someone?

We all ate WAY to much.

72 blueraven  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:21:11pm

Eds sentiment was right but his words were absolutely wrong. Ingraham is a far RW hypocrite.

That is the right word for her. The going after the president for having a beer is ridiculous, but people like Ed lessen the real issues by pandering to the lowest common denominator.

73 [deleted]  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:21:12pm
74 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:21:21pm

re: #69 Obdicut

And, as I so often do, I screwed the hell out of my formatting.

75 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:21:22pm

re: #46 LudwigVanQuixote

So political whore - a metaphor used by everyone, and understood by everyone is now taboo because you are taking the phrase literally?

Ridiculous.

You understand the information content of “political whore” precisely and that it as nothing at all to do with actual sex workers.

Calling a specific woman you don’t like a slut is not a political metaphor.

76 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:21:32pm

re: #70 SanFranciscoZionist

Maybe Bryan Fischer and Cornel West can hold a conference on Barack Obama’s inadequate blackness.

//WTF? Seriously, if you mention any ancestors who weren’t black, this disqualifies you from being ‘the real black man in the race’? Never mind that the job isn’t ‘official black man to the United States’, the job is ‘President’.

Frederick Douglass was not a black man?

77 shutdown  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:22:11pm

re: #71 Cannadian Club Akbar

We all ate WAY to much.

What did you make?

78 Four More Tears  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:22:15pm

re: #74 Obdicut

And, as I so often do, I screwed the hell out of my formatting.

Hope you at least bought it dinner first.

79 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:22:27pm

re: #53 imp_62

There is a cultural sub-text here that as a European Caucasian (albeit Jewish), I cannot really follow or fully comprehend. Discussions of relative “blackness” seem to be fairly common amongst and between black Americans; note the verbal sparring going on between Donovan McNabb and Bernard Hopkins.
Bernard Hopkins Clumsily Defends His Comments About Donovan McNabb

Yes, but Bryan Fischer is…white…

80 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:22:55pm

re: #58 SanFranciscoZionist

Perspective here guys… The GOP, and right wing female pundits are real happy about sticking large phallic shaped probes in your vagina to browbeat your reproductive rights away.

So rather than the S word, in the case of those female pundits in small dresses, in support of such things, can we use disgusting, self promoting, opportunistic traitor to her gender, with no loyalty to others but herself who flashes her naughty bits?


What will work for ya?

81 Simply Sarah  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:23:04pm

re: #70 SanFranciscoZionist

Maybe Bryan Fischer and Cornel West can hold a conference on Barack Obama’s inadequate blackness.

//WTF? Seriously, if you mention any ancestors who weren’t black, this disqualifies you from being ‘the real black man in the race’? Never mind that the job isn’t ‘official black man to the United States’, the job is ‘President’.

It’s like a mirror of how some states used to determine if you were really white or secretly black.

82 Decatur Deb  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:23:08pm

re: #73 imp_62

But even she was not a whore…

And proud of it. She was not a volunteer porn star.

83 shutdown  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:23:18pm

re: #79 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeah, I know. It seemed ok to move into that thought process though, as related…

84 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:23:20pm

re: #77 imp_62

What did you make?

Steak and mushrooms, shrimp and lobster pasta with heavy cream and parm. Nothing fancy. Me friend has a small kitchen.

85 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:23:20pm

re: #63 Alouette

The sky has turned dark green. I’m hoping it’s just the color of the glass. People are already talking about heading for the stairwells.

What? Where are you?

86 HoosierHoops  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:23:27pm

re: #62 imp_62

Father Knows Best lol

In my parent’s bedroom there is a picture of Jesus and Mary on the wall..Between them is a pic of my dad shaking hands with JFK.

87 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:23:28pm

re: #79 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes, but Bryan Fischer is…white…

White like a polar bear eating a mayo and white bread sandwich with a side of rice on a paper plate in a blizzard.

88 Vicious Babushka  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:23:43pm

re: #85 LudwigVanQuixote

What? Where are you?

I’m in Dearborn.

89 shutdown  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:24:06pm

re: #82 Decatur Deb

And proud of it. She was not a volunteer porn star.

Don’t knock it. Some places cannot afford a professional porn star cast and rely on volunteers to fill the holes.

90 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:24:17pm

re: #80 LudwigVanQuixote

Why on earth focus on the ‘small dresses’ part? It’s not at all important. And there’s nothing wrong with women wearing small dresses, if they want to.

What’s wrong is telling lies. It doesn’t become worse when you’re telling lies while flashing your whatsthatdownthereMrJollyfingers.

91 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:24:27pm

re: #42 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Bryan Fischer: Obama isn’t a real black man

That’s rich, coming from a man who, in a different time or setting, would likely use this offensive word liberally.

92 Max  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:24:55pm

re: #80 LudwigVanQuixote

Dude?

93 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:25:40pm

re: #68 Decatur Deb

I’m getting a malware alert from that link. Booo!

94 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:25:48pm

re: #80 LudwigVanQuixote

Perspective here guys… The GOP, and right wing female pundits are real happy about sticking large phallic shaped probes in your vagina to browbeat your reproductive rights away.

So rather than the S word, in the case of those female pundits in small dresses, in support of such things, can we use disgusting, self promoting, opportunistic traitor to her gender, with no loyalty to others but herself who flashes her naughty bits?

What will work for ya?

I have perspective here. I do not intend to give the likes of Ed Schultz a pass because OMG, the GOP. I will attack anyone for any shit they say, without fear or favor.

And frankly, being told to calm down about Ed Schultz showing his contempt for women because he’s pro-TECT-ing me from the real meanies…not so good.

Schultz fucked up. Not that this surprised me.

95 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:25:50pm

re: #69 Obdicut

Not exactly. “Political whore” is a pretty anondyne insult; I was talking about just calling women sluts and whores. But think about it: political whore is like calling someone a political monkey or political savage, either of which, if they were applied to Obama, would be rather obviously racist. Maybe someone, unthinking, would use that phrase, but that doesn’t make the phrase less racist.


Hmmm let’s think about that…

In the case of Obama yes of course. He is not a savage.

But what about Idi Amin? He liked to eat people you know. Does he qualify as a savage?

Does his skin color prevent an accurate description of his crimes?

96 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:25:52pm

My radio just said the douche who shot the Congreeswoman Giffords is mentally incompetent to stand trial. BREAKING!! (time stamp should read 3:19 when it hits)

97 Decatur Deb  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:25:52pm

re: #89 imp_62

Don’t knock it. Some places cannot afford a professional porn star cast and rely on volunteers to fill the holes.

That’s taking Little Theatre to a whole new level.

98 funky chicken  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:26:03pm

re: #60 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Rick Santorum on his detractors;

STOP IT!!!

LOL, whatta maroon.

But MSNBC should still take Ed Schultz off the air. Pretty much every local news person here in OKC would make better use of that hour per day, and I have zero idea of their politics or hobbies or, well, anything.

I hear brilliant people on NPR all the time. I’m sure one of them would have liked the pay raise that would come with a daily MSNBC show.

Mo Rocca would do a better news show. Sheesh—this isn’t rocket science, or even microbiology (my speciality, BTW).

99 Decatur Deb  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:27:06pm

re: #93 Slumbering Behemoth

I’m getting a malware alert from that link. Booo!

Plz flag it for removal quick—I’m on Linux, and it didn’t light up.

100 funky chicken  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:27:34pm

re: #70 SanFranciscoZionist

Maybe Bryan Fischer and Cornel West can hold a conference on Barack Obama’s inadequate blackness.

//WTF? Seriously, if you mention any ancestors who weren’t black, this disqualifies you from being ‘the real black man in the race’? Never mind that the job isn’t ‘official black man to the United States’, the job is ‘President’.

Only if we could quietly lock the door to the auditorium while they are in there shouting at each other so the rest of us can sneak away…for 10 years or so.

101 Four More Tears  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:27:43pm

re: #96 Cannadian Club Akbar

My radio just said the douche who shot the Congreeswoman Giffords is mentally incompetent to stand trial. BREAKING!! (time stamp should read 3:19 when it hits)

So we’ll fight for the rights of people like that to own firearms, but they don’t have to face the consequences of abusing them. Well ain’t that skippy.

102 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:27:47pm

re: #90 Obdicut

Why on earth focus on the ‘small dresses’ part?

Because they are using their sexuality to sell those lies. Seems pretty obvious to any other male viewer what the small dresses and crotch shot camera angles are for.

103 shutdown  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:27:47pm

re: #97 Decatur Deb

That’s taking Little Theatre to a whole new level.

I made a funny, son
Foghorn Leghorn

104 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:28:00pm

re: #96 Cannadian Club Akbar

My radio just said the douche who shot the Congreeswoman Giffords is mentally incompetent to stand trial. BREAKING!! (time stamp should read 3:19 when it hits)

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com…]

105 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:28:09pm

re: #99 Decatur Deb

Already done.

106 funky chicken  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:28:11pm

re: #96 Cannadian Club Akbar

Gee, DUH.

107 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:28:46pm

re: #94 SanFranciscoZionist

I didn’t tell you to calm down and I realize the term makes people upset.

However, the fact is that he was merely impolitic and not malicious.

The others are malicious.

108 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:29:14pm

re: #106 funky chicken

Gee, DUH.

That is what happens when you have a Slip Knot tshirt on when getting a mug shot, I suppose.
/

109 Decatur Deb  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:29:54pm

re: #105 Slumbering Behemoth

Already done.

#68 is still showing—don’t hit it.

110 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:30:09pm

re: #80 LudwigVanQuixote

Perspective here guys… The GOP, and right wing female pundits are real happy about sticking large phallic shaped probes in your vagina to browbeat your reproductive rights away.

So rather than the S word, in the case of those female pundits in small dresses, in support of such things, can we use disgusting, self promoting, opportunistic traitor to her gender, with no loyalty to others but herself who flashes her naughty bits?

What will work for ya?

Think. Step back and think.

Is it helping women any to make slurs on their sexuality? I’m not saying you can’t attack her, just that if you use that word to describe a woman just because you don’t like her, you are saying that the worst thing you can think of a woman is that she isn’t chaste. Is that what you want to do?

111 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:30:24pm

re: #95 LudwigVanQuixote

I don’t think describing Amin as a savage is anywhere near accurate. He’s a highly modern sociopath. He wears pants and everything.

Cannibalism isn’t really associated with savages. The Aztecs did it, and they were a highly advanced civilization.

But yeah, if you were to describe Idi Amin as “An African savage”, even though that is, technically, a correct description, it’d call to mind an entire history of racism that would confuse the issue. So to avoid doing that, and muddling the message, I’d avoid using that phraseology.

Bernie Maddoff was a Jew, and he schemed. But if someone calls him a ‘scheming Jew’, I’m going to be expecting that they’re saying that from a racist perspective.

Language is loaded like that.

112 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:30:24pm

re: #39 LudwigVanQuixote

But, I am not going to get into a debate about what is inherently sexist with anyone since looking at my many, many posts, I have always been quite in support of feminism in general.

“I’m not racist. I have black friends”.

113 Simply Sarah  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:30:37pm

re: #101 JasonA

So we’ll fight for the rights of people like that to own firearms, but they don’t have to face the consequences of abusing them. Well ain’t that skippy.

That’s not quite what’s going on here. What it means is that he’ll be locked up in a mental institution for a period of time until he is deemed competent to be put on trial, as which point he will have to face the legal system and answer for his crimes (Assuming, of course, he is eventually deemed competent).

114 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:31:57pm

re: #107 LudwigVanQuixote

I didn’t tell you to calm down and I realize the term makes people upset.

However, the fact is that he was merely impolitic and not malicious.

The others are malicious.

I disagree. He is deliberately using an ugly societal pattern of devaluing women’s words by sexualizing them. He was malicious. Calling a woman a slut is malicious.

115 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:32:21pm

re: #102 LudwigVanQuixote

Why on earth focus on the ‘small dresses’ part?

Because they are using their sexuality to sell those lies. Seems pretty obvious to any other male viewer what the small dresses and crotch shot camera angles are for.

So what? why is that important? They’re using their minds, their language, their entire beings to sell the lies. Why are you focusing on sexuality— pretty much the most innocuous thing they’re doing— to single out?

It doesn’t make any sense.

I mean, if you want to point out that they’re using sex to sell their point of view, why not state it as ‘they’re using sex to sell their point of view’? Why throw the word ‘slut’ in there?

116 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:32:29pm

re: #112 Slumbering Behemoth

Deeply uncalled for dude. No it is more like saying that I have hundreds of posts promoting women’s rights. So you should assume I am not coming from a place that is knocking women in general. However, I know the ability to whine and make a show of being offended appeals to you.

And with that, I humbly step away from a clearly toxic subject.

117 Four More Tears  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:32:59pm

re: #113 Simply Sarah

That’s not quite what’s going on here. What it means is that he’ll be locked up in a mental institution for a period of time until he is deemed competent to be put on trial, as which point he will have to face the legal system and answer for his crimes (Assuming, of course, he is eventually deemed competent).

I know, I know. Just venting, I guess. :-/

118 prairiefire  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:33:08pm

Today was the first day of the ‘Women’s and Children’s” clearance sale at Nordstrom’s. Also the day a twister decided to fly over the store. We all took shelter in the lower stairwell. It was ok except there was an 11 day old infant, a 15 month baby girl, and a 5 year old little guy with us who where out shopping with their moms. That made me a little nervous.
It passed and everyone went back to their shopping.

119 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:33:12pm

Gotta run.

120 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:33:31pm

re: #110 EmmmieG

But what if a woman is abusing her sexuality herself as part of the issue? Does that not matter?

121 darthstar  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:33:33pm

I don’t care for Shultz, and there’s no excuse for misogyny, because that distracts people and suddenly everything’s about those hateful liberals and their foul language…instead of the hypocrisy of creatures like Ingraham.

122 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:33:42pm

re: #116 LudwigVanQuixote

And with that, I humbly step away from a clearly toxic subject.

It wasn’t, actually.

123 funky chicken  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:34:22pm

This guy would do a better show than Ed Schultz.

124 Amory Blaine  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:34:31pm

Hopefully the left will admonish him thoroughly and he realizes his error. I’d hate for the few pundits on the left adopting the vile language the right talkers spew every day.

125 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:35:06pm

re: #116 LudwigVanQuixote

Deeply uncalled for dude. No it is more like saying that I have hundreds of posts promoting women’s rights. So you should assume I am not coming from a place that is knocking women in general. However, I know the ability to whine and make a show of being offended appeals to you.

And with that, I humbly step away from a clearly toxic subject.

Me whining? Are you even reading the posts that you’re typing? You get called on some bad behavior/language, and you hog up the thread crying about it.

126 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:35:08pm

No I will not get sucked into this anymore.

Those who disagree with me, let’s just agree to disagree.

I ask that you not assume I am opposed to women, since prima facia, I am opposed to women being reduced to their sexuality as on Fox, and I am opposed to all the things being done against women by the GOP.

127 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:35:15pm

re: #124 Amory Blaine

I seriously have never met a ‘liberal’ who likes Ed Shultz.

128 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:35:31pm

re: #118 prairiefire

Today was the first day of the ‘Women’s and Children’s” clearance sale at Nordstrom’s. Also the day a twister decided to fly over the store. We all took shelter in the lower stairwell. It was ok except there was an 11 day old infant, a 15 month baby girl, and a 5 year old little guy with us who where out shopping with their moms. That made me a little nervous.
It passed and everyone went back to their shopping.

I do not know how the heck you people in twister country do it. I would be a nervous wreck.

129 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:36:30pm

re: #88 Alouette

I’m in Dearborn.

BE safe.

130 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:36:40pm

re: #126 LudwigVanQuixote

They’re not reduced to their sexuality. Those women are not just stripping down and holding out signs with the slogans on them. They’re selling the message with much more than their sexuality. You could button them up in burqas and they’d still be selling it, and they’d still be good at doing it.

131 Amory Blaine  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:37:08pm

re: #127 Obdicut

I’m no different. ;) He’s too “blowhard” for me. I find him tedious and uninspiring.

132 funky chicken  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:37:11pm

re: #126 LudwigVanQuixote

Just don’t try to defend the indefensible. Schultz is a jackass with a large platform, granted to him by serious moronicity at MSNBC. Honestly, if this latest stupidity gets him removed from TV, we’ll all be the better for it.

133 blueraven  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:37:19pm

re: #120 LudwigVanQuixote

But what if a woman is abusing her sexuality herself as part of the issue? Does that not matter?

What is the equivalent word for a man that uses his sexuality? Is it thrown around like slut, whore etc…to describe any action that one doesn’t agree with?

134 prairiefire  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:37:25pm

re: #128 SanFranciscoZionist

I do not know how the heck you people in twister country do it. I would be a nervous wreck.

I was quietly crying a little bit walking down the stairs, I have to admit. Checked in on my mental state ~ “Am I having an anxiety attack?” Turned out I wasn’t.

135 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:37:35pm

re: #120 LudwigVanQuixote

But what if a woman is abusing her sexuality herself as part of the issue? Does that not matter?

No. You can call her out on using her sexuality, sure. But using her sexuality does not put her outside the limits of proper behavior, any more than a woman wearing a short skirt on the street deserves sexual harassment if she annoys you by littering.

136 funky chicken  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:37:45pm

gotta go get the kiddies. see ya all later

137 LWNJ  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:37:51pm

re: #81 Simply Sarah

In the fine old tradition of white guys telling blacks — and everyone else — what they ought to be.

138 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:38:31pm

re: #133 blueraven

What is the equivalent word for a man that uses his sexuality? Is it thrown around like slut, whore etc…to describe any action that one doesn’t agree with?

“Powerful”. “Strong”. “Compelling”. “Virile”.

139 Decatur Deb  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:39:04pm

re: #127 Obdicut

I seriously have never met a ‘liberal’ who likes Ed Shultz.

Too much of Buchanan about him.

140 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:39:25pm

re: #138 SanFranciscoZionist

But enough about me…

141 Amory Blaine  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:39:25pm

re: #133 blueraven

What is the equivalent word for a man that uses his sexuality? Is it thrown around like slut, whore etc…to describe any action that one doesn’t agree with?

“pretentious douchebag”

142 prairiefire  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:39:57pm

re: #138 SanFranciscoZionist

“Powerful”. “Strong”. “Compelling”. “Virile”.

“Lech, whore, slut, dog, caveman, dickhead, moron.” But I get your point.

143 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:40:10pm

Laura from Wiki:
Ingraham earned a bachelor’s degree at Dartmouth College, in 1985, and a law degree at the University of Virginia School of Law, in 1991. As a Dartmouth undergraduate, she was a staff member of the independent conservative newspaper, The Dartmouth Review. In her senior year, she was the newspaper’s editor-in-chief,[3] its first female editor.

And:
She is a convert to Roman Catholicism.[26] In May 2008, Ingraham adopted a young girl from Guatemala, whom she has named Maria Caroline.[27][dead link] In July 2009 she adopted a 13-month-old boy, Michael Dmitri, from Russia.

Stoopid and horrible!!

144 prairiefire  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:41:55pm

re: #143 Cannadian Club Akbar

Laura from Wiki:
Ingraham earned a bachelor’s degree at Dartmouth College, in 1985, and a law degree at the University of Virginia School of Law, in 1991. As a Dartmouth undergraduate, she was a staff member of the independent conservative newspaper, The Dartmouth Review. In her senior year, she was the newspaper’s editor-in-chief,[3] its first female editor.

And:
She is a convert to Roman Catholicism.[26] In May 2008, Ingraham adopted a young girl from Guatemala, whom she has named Maria Caroline.[27][dead link] In July 2009 she adopted a 13-month-old boy, Michael Dmitri, from Russia.

Stoopid and horrible!!

I don’t think she deserves to be called a slut. But I have listened to her horrible, petty carping on Michelle Obama enough to determine she is thoroughly unpleasant.

145 Amory Blaine  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:42:39pm

re: #143 Cannadian Club Akbar

That’s an impressive background. Never know it by listening to her show.

146 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:42:52pm

re: #137 C1nnabar

In the fine old tradition of white guys telling blacks — and everyone else — what they ought to be.

Seriously, though. Three years ago, the idea that a black man could be president was a bit science-fictiony, and now pundits are fighting about which party has the more authentic black man.

Hilarious.

Of course, it’s a fine line. You have to be authentically black, but not in a way that makes white voters nervous. So:

1. No referencing white relatives.
2. No celebrating St. Paddy’s day.
3. No rap.
4. No references to racism or anything like that.
5. No ethnic hairdos.

(I’m still worried about what will happen when the Obama girls get to high school and one of them decides she wants braids.)

147 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:42:59pm

re: #143 Cannadian Club Akbar

Stoopid and horrible!!

Better than calling her a ‘slut’, anyway.

148 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:44:42pm

re: #130 Obdicut

They’re not reduced to their sexuality. Those women are not just stripping down and holding out signs with the slogans on them. They’re selling the message with much more than their sexuality. You could button them up in burqas and they’d still be selling it, and they’d still be good at doing it.

Fox and the Fox viewers and those straight men who are not too old to notice the crotch shots and little dresses would obviously disagree with you on that.

Of course women can wear little dresses if they like. That is not the issue. The issue is that you seem to think that wearing a little dress is not provocative.

It is true that a bleach blond in a little dress is not a provocatively sight to the aged (and impotent), the pre-pubescent and gay men.

However, most men and women know what that means.

When it is coupled with a political message, it is obviously using sex to sell it.

When that message is ironically bound up in removing women’s rights over their own bodies, it seems really odd to not take offence at the irony alone. I am simply shocked that stating the obvious has become such a chore.

And with that, I really need to get out of here. People who think magically make me crazy.

149 Decatur Deb  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:45:34pm

re: #146 SanFranciscoZionist

Seriously, though. Three years ago, the idea that a black man could be president was a bit science-fictiony, and now pundits are fighting about which party has the more authentic black man.

Hilarious.

Of course, it’s a fine line. You have to be authentically black, but not in a way that makes white voters nervous. So:

1. No referencing white relatives.
2. No celebrating St. Paddy’s day.
3. No rap.
4. No references to racism or anything like that.
5. No ethnic hairdos.

(I’m still worried about what will happen when the Obama girls get to high school and one of them decides she wants braids.)

This negritude contest will go away when Cain goes away, and that will be the minute his usefulness ends.

150 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:45:40pm

David Barton named “National Hero of Faith” by Scarborough’s Vision America organization

151 justaminute  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:47:44pm

How is everyone doin? Anyone ruptured while I was gone? I got back from Jamaica last night following the twisters in Oklahoma. Husband’s pickup looks like a golf ball. Allouette green skies in Oklahoma means “you better watch out.”

Ed Schultz has a big mouth but MSNBC usually reigns him in, but I bet his days are numbered. I won’t miss him, I only watch Rachel.

152 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:47:55pm

re: #146 SanFranciscoZionist

Seriously, though. Three years ago, the idea that a black man could be president was a bit science-fictiony, and now pundits are fighting about which party has the more authentic black man.

Hilarious.

Of course, it’s a fine line. You have to be authentically black, but not in a way that makes white voters nervous. So:

1. No referencing white relatives.
2. No celebrating St. Paddy’s day.
3. No rap.
4. No references to racism or anything like that.
5. No ethnic hairdos.

(I’m still worried about what will happen when the Obama girls get to high school and one of them decides she wants braids.)

Or extensions…THE HORROR!

153 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:48:21pm

re: #148 LudwigVanQuixote

Fox and the Fox viewers and those straight men who are not too old to notice the crotch shots and little dresses would obviously disagree with you on that.

No, they wouldn’t. Laura Ingraham, for example, doesn’t use her sexuality much at all, especially not over the radio— where, you know, you can’t see what she’s wearing.

Women really can manage to sell political messages without using sex. Sex helps, sure, but they really can pull it off with just that whole talking thing, just like men.


Of course women can wear little dresses if they like. That is not the issue. The issue is that you seem to think that wearing a little dress is not provocative.

Nope. I have no idea how you managed to misread me that badly. I fully agree they’re using sex to sell their message. So why would you say I seem to think that?


When it is coupled with a political message, it is obviously using sex to sell it.

Okay, I guess you’re just not reading my posts. Here you go again:


I mean, if you want to point out that they’re using sex to sell their point of view, why not state it as ‘they’re using sex to sell their point of view’? Why throw the word ‘slut’ in there?

Get it?


And with that, I really need to get out of here. People who think magically make me crazy.

Well, when you find someone doing that, make sure to point it out. I’d say that ignoring that I clearly stated that they’re using sex to sell their point of view, and having you ignore that and claim that I didn’t understand that, would fall more into that category.

Seeya.

154 blueraven  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:48:27pm

re: #138 SanFranciscoZionist

“Powerful”. “Strong”. “Compelling”. “Virile”.

I think “most” TV personalities use their sexuality in some way or another. I mean when Shepard Smith flashes his great smile, and shows off his natty suits, is that not using every thing he has? Of course it is.

155 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:49:02pm

re: #149 Decatur Deb

This negritude contest will go away when Cain goes away, and that will be the minute his usefulness ends.

Give the GOP a break. They lost Steele and had to find a new token on short notice.

156 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:51:14pm

re: #154 blueraven

Whatever can you be talking about?

[Link: elegantlyrandom.typepad.com…]

//

157 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:52:50pm

re: #154 blueraven

I think “most” TV personalities use their sexuality in some way or another. I mean when Shepard Smith flashes his great smile, and shows off his natty suits, is that not using every thing he has? Of course it is.

Sure. Think about all the women out there who drool over Anderson Cooper.

A lot of visual presentation is just plain ol’ flirting.

158 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:52:58pm

“right wing hypocrite” would have worked just as well and no one would have blinked an eye.

159 shutdown  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:53:32pm

re: #154 blueraven

I think “most” TV personalities use their sexuality in some way or another. I mean when Shepard Smith flashes his great smile, and shows off his natty suits, is that not using every thing he has? Of course it is.

I find that Michael Moore uses his sexuality to promote his message.

160 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:53:37pm

re: #158 eclectic infidel

“right wing hypocrite” would have worked just as well and no one would have blinked an eye.

Hey, you’re supposed to be cleaning!

(I’m supposed to be applying to jobs, but at least I’m on the computer.)

161 blueraven  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:54:06pm

re: #159 imp_62

I find that Michael Moore uses his sexuality to promote his message.

Yikes…pass the bleach!

162 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:54:59pm

re: #159 imp_62

I find that Michael Moore uses his sexuality to promote his message.

I just threw up a little in my mouth…

163 ProBosniaLiberal  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:55:08pm

re: #151 justaminute

Yeah, Green skies are a sign of bad things happening nearby.

164 Decatur Deb  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:55:37pm

re: #156 Obdicut

Whatever can you be talking about?

[Link: elegantlyrandom.typepad.com…]

//

[Link: gulfofmexicooilspillblog.files.wordpress.com…]

165 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:55:41pm

re: #160 SanFranciscoZionist

Hey, you’re supposed to be cleaning!

(I’m supposed to be applying to jobs, but at least I’m on the computer.)

I’m supposed to be doing that too, but i have friends in the catering field who i’m going to hit up first so that’s my excuse. As for cleaning, well, yeah, but for the past hour i’ve been doing dishes that have been laying about for a month or so. Slowly but surely, my plate and utensil collection will be full again. :)

Where the f-ck did this rain come from anyway?

166 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:56:17pm

re: #164 Decatur Deb

“Are you feeling me?”

Image: andy-rooney.png

167 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:56:42pm

Michelle Bachmann responds to Obama’s “1967 lines with land swaps speech.”

I am convinced in my heart and in my mind that if the United States fails to stand with Israel, that is the end of the United States … [W]e have to show that we are inextricably entwined, that as a nation we have been blessed because of our relationship with Israel, and if we reject Israel, then there is a curse that comes into play. And my husband and I are both Christians, and we believe very strongly the verse from Genesis [Genesis 12:3], we believe very strongly that nations also receive blessings as they bless Israel. It is a strong and beautiful principle.

[Link: tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com…]

168 Targetpractice  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:57:07pm

re: #166 Obdicut

“Are you feeling me?”

Image: andy-rooney.png

GAH! Who opened the Ark of the Covenant?!

169 sharona  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:58:00pm

This is not a Right/Left thing, people. In refering to one’s opponents as “Sl*ts”, “Wh**es,” “F*gs”, “Idi*ts” “_____-t*rds”, etcetera ad infinum we diminsh each other and the debate we are trying to have with each other. That said, it always seems as if women ultimately judged by their sex, expected to be Madonna and Wh*re, and damned no matter what they do. Shame on this cretin for using his powerful position to sexually demean a colleague.

170 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:58:44pm

re: #167 ausador

Is it ok to call her a dumbass?

171 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:58:49pm

re: #169 sharona

Idiots is probably okay.

172 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:58:55pm

re: #167 ausador

Michelle Bachmann responds to Obama’s “1967 lines with land swaps speech.”

[Link: tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com…]

So her response to international political questions is to invoke FUCKING MAGIC.

Good to know.

173 122 Year Old Obama  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:59:00pm

I don’t like Ingraham anymore than the rest of the sane world does, but it’s really not worth stooping to the same level..

174 122 Year Old Obama  Wed, May 25, 2011 12:59:51pm

re: #173 SteelPH

Or stooping lower, for that matter.

175 shutdown  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:00:24pm

re: #167 ausador

Michelle Bachmann responds to Obama’s “1967 lines with land swaps speech.”

[Link: tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com…]

We have arguments (they stopped being discussions a while back) about this in my house. I feel increasingly that the evangelical Christian “embrace” of Israel is more akin to that of a boa constrictor than of a lover. Other side of the argument: Israel needs to take her friends where she can find them. I feel that there will be Jews long after evangelicals have disappeared. I would just as soon look at them as strategic allies in a limited capacity than as “friends”.

176 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:00:38pm

re: #165 eclectic infidel

I’m supposed to be doing that too, but i have friends in the catering field who i’m going to hit up first so that’s my excuse. As for cleaning, well, yeah, but for the past hour i’ve been doing dishes that have been laying about for a month or so. Slowly but surely, my plate and utensil collection will be full again. :)

Where the f-ck did this rain come from anyway?

Might have something to do with all this weird weather inland.

177 sattv4u2  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:00:46pm

re: #173 SteelPH

I don’t like Ingraham anymore than the rest of the sane world does, but it’s really not worth stooping to the same level..

“stooping to the same level”?

Sorry, but did Ingraham call Shultz a name?

178 sattv4u2  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:01:39pm

re: #173 SteelPH

re: #177 sattv4u2

“stooping to the same level”?

Sorry, but did Ingraham call Shultz a SIMILARLY DEROGATORY name?


pimf

179 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:02:04pm

re: #177 sattv4u2

“stooping to the same level”?

Sorry, but did Ingraham call Shultz a name?

She might have said, “He Knows Nothing”!!!
/

180 albusteve  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:02:50pm

[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk…]

jaw dropping before/after pics of Joplin

181 sattv4u2  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:03:03pm

re: #179 Cannadian Club Akbar

She might have said, “He Knows Nothing”!!!
/

[Link: www.google.com…]

182 sattv4u2  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:04:32pm

re: #153 Obdicut

mind numbing

updinged

183 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:04:38pm

re: #157 SanFranciscoZionist

Sure. Think about all the women out there who drool over Anderson Cooper.

A lot of visual presentation is just plain ol’ flirting.

Not that I drool over him in a sexual manor or anything, sure he is an extremely hot looking and forthright seeming guy who obviously takes care of himself and could go all night lo…

Uhh..what I meant to say is that he does a really good as a newscaster…yeah, right, thats what I meant to say…

///

184 shutdown  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:04:40pm

Off to meet my wife (biking home from work). BBL

185 makeitstop  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:05:16pm

re: #159 imp_62

I find that Michael Moore uses his sexuality to promote his message.

Oh, ew. That’s just wrong.

186 sattv4u2  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:06:40pm

re: #183 ausador

Not that I drool over him in a sexual manor or anything, sure he is an extremely hot looking and forthright seeming guy who obviously takes care of himself and could go all night lo…

Uhh..what I meant to say is that he does a really good as a newscaster…yeah, right, thats what I meant to say…

///

CLEAN UP IN AISLE 183

187 sharona  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:08:27pm

re: #171 Obdicut
I think it’s a sign of disrespect when you have a, for lack of a better expression, “pulpit” from which you share information and influence others. In private we all call our opponents “idiots”… that’s just the way it goes. But I would argue that journalists have a higher obligation to keep things civil.

188 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:08:31pm

re: #180 albusteve

[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk…]

jaw dropping before/after pics of Joplin

that’s awesome (and not in the cool way).

189 makeitstop  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:10:11pm

re: #180 albusteve

[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk…]

jaw dropping before/after pics of Joplin

Such devastation. As someone who lives in an area where tornadoes are rare, that level of damage is almost unimaginable.

190 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:12:23pm

re: #187 sharona

Oh, for Schultz saying it? Well, again, my main complaint wouldn’t be that it’s uncivil, but that’s inaccurate. Calling Laura Ingrham a cowardly hypocrite is a lot more uncivil, but I’d be fine with anyone calling her that.

191 simoom  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:15:49pm

Michele Bachmann, re: #167 ausador

Michelle Bachmann responds to Obama’s “1967 lines with land swaps speech.”

[Link: tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com…]

On a related note, here’s Michele Bachmann’s latest fundraising push, complete with web ads directing back to michelebachmann.com:
“Tell Obama: You’ve Betrayed Israel”

Screenshot of her website: Image: CAC3a.png

Text of her website:

Tell Obama: You’ve Betrayed Israel

President Obama has announced his support of returning Israel and Palestine to the pre-war borders of 1967—borders that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has called “indefensible.” This announcement was an unprecedented act and is yet another example of his policy of blaming Israel first. President Obama’s course is a rapid and drastic departure from previous U.S. policy. These actions are totally unacceptable. Abandoning decades of peacemaking efforts, this plan is a return to the failed past and would heavily jeopardize Israeli security and stability in an already unstable Middle East.

Americans know that a safer Israel is a safer world, and expect our President to put his best foot forward towards accomplishing this goal. Unfortunately it is now very clear Barack Obama simply does not support one of America’s closest allies.

Israel needs the support of the American people now more than ever. Take a stand today and sign the petition to tell Barack Obama: Don’t betray Israel.

The bolding is hers.

192 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:17:38pm

I don’t know how this got overlooked:

Newt’s campaign promise: I know how to get the whole country to resemble Texas.

Um..no thanks.

193 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:17:45pm

Libyan rebels attacking Gaddafi’s troops with rockets(RPG and 70mm?)

Liveleak Video


Take note of the 4x4 being used to initiate what appears to be an improvised 70mm helicopter rocket launcher in the background.
194 justaminute  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:19:57pm

We were flying home last night from a connecting flight from Atlanta, GA to Oklahoma City around 9:10pm last night. We were flying over the edge of Arkansas and saw some incredible lightning. We were over the top of the clouds and you could see it bouncing between the clouds. I have never seen anything like it. It looked like a laser light show. We were all worried about what we might find at home but that lightening was simply amazing in it’s beauty.

195 Jimmah  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:20:13pm

re: #158 eclectic infidel

“right wing hypocrite” would have worked just as well and no one would have blinked an eye.

Yep - there’s absolutely no need to use language that is inherently sexist. When people do that, they legitimise the use of such language and prolong it’s cultural lifespan - which isn’t good for women - while making themselves sound like misogynists.

196 BongCrodny  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:20:22pm

Maybe Ed Schultz is the long-lost son of “Hogan’s Heroes” Sergeant Schultz.

‘Cause he also knows nothing….nothing!

197 sattv4u2  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:21:12pm

re: #196 BongCrodny

Maybe Ed Schultz is the long-lost son of “Hogan’s Heroes” Sergeant Schultz.

‘Cause he also knows nothing…nothing!

Hence, 179 and 181

198 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:22:04pm

re: #191 simoom

Michele Bachmann,

On a related note, here’s Michele Bachmann’s latest fundraising push, complete with web ads directing back to michelebachmann.com:
“Tell Obama: You’ve Betrayed Israel”

Screenshot of her website: Image: CAC3a.png

Text of her website:

The bolding is hers.

This is actually starting to drive me out of my mind. I just got an update from Virtual Jerusalem on Facebook. Obama tells the Palestinians, don’t push the UN for recognition in September.

The first reponse?

that is taqiya kitman for goto the UN and i will invade israel with a peace flag and the zionist will build me a temple on mt moriah

Again I think Obama is bowing smoke out his fork tongue. I believe he feels he is doing right by us Jews but he is Not. I believe he thinks these statements will help his re-election hopes. I pray NOT!!!!! I do not trust the man, never have and now more people are waking up to the true Obama, not the Messiah.

I’m seeing even quite socially and fiscally liberal Jews start to veer in this direction, and it baffles me no end. What inspires this distrust, and what could the man possibly do to satisfy them?

199 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:22:51pm

EDL Supporter Confused by Journalists Microphone

Liveleak Video
200 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:23:02pm

Why did my screen jump twice?

201 BongCrodny  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:23:35pm

re: #197 sattv4u2

Hence, 179 and 181


Late to the party once again.

I think my record of posting the same stuff after other people have already done so is unparallelled.

202 albusteve  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:23:39pm

re: #193 Killgore Trout

Libyan rebels attacking Gaddafi’s troops with rockets(RPG and 70mm?)

[Video]

no fire and maneuver to advance against the enemy…a lot of pot shots tho
I give them credit for not giving up…they have plenty of fight left

203 Jimmah  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:24:25pm

re: #192 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)


Newt’s campaign promise: I know how to get the whole country to resemble Texas.

“And you have 24 hours to agree to my demands or I’ll make it happen.”

204 darthstar  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:24:45pm

Fucker Loughner’s getting off. Well, he’s “unfit” to stand trial, anyway.

[Link: www.nytimes.com…]

205 Interesting Times  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:24:45pm

re: #200 Cannadian Club Akbar

Why did my screen jump twice?

Deleted comments (i.e. links that contained malware, unbeknownst to those who first posted them)

206 sattv4u2  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:24:59pm

re: #200 Cannadian Club Akbar

Why did my screen jump twice?

It didn’t

You hiccuped twice

207 RadicalModerate  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:25:13pm

re: #60 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Rick Santorum on his detractors;

I just read through that interview - and have a couple of comments on two of his quotes:

I always said when I first was elected that I had a constituency of one. And if you are serving God in your daily work, what you know is right and you are being transparent about what you are doing and why you are doing it, then it is up for the people then to decide whether what you believe, and what you think is in the best interest of the country, is what they think.
[…]
But we don’t owe them the proverbial finger in the wind as to whatever the public at the moment decides that they want to be for because in a republic, in a representative democracy, there is a delegation of duty to that representative, to that executive to do the job of, having as your job, getting all the information, being able to consider that information. Whereas most people, they have jobs. They have other things to do. This is your responsibility and you can’t defer to others whose job it isn’t, to do your job.

No, you obnoxious frothy mix of fecal matter, as an elected representative your job is to represent the people who voted you into office (as well as those who didn’t). PERIOD. If you feel that you serve only one - get the fuck out of politics. If you insist on that calling, I understand that there is a lot of vacancies in the seminary currently. I’m sure that there’s people that you know who can help steer you in that direction.

What ultimately matters — when it comes to people — I’m not talking about issues. On issues, I’ll be passionate, I’ll fight, I’ll work. I’m talking about in having animus towards people — I don’t think of people the way I think of issues. Unfortunately, there are many who don’t see the world that way, who hold people’s positions as a personal affront and aren’t able to separate a public policy dispute from something that’s personal.

Look in the damn mirror, Mr. Santorum. LOOK IN THE DAMN MIRROR.
The vitriol directed toward you is ALL in response to bigoted, hateful speech that you yourself have made. There are literally dozens of quotes of yours that can be stated here - but you want to be known as the virtuous one. Sorry - it doesn’t work that way.

208 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:25:58pm

re: #198 SanFranciscoZionist

He could tell the Arab world in his Cairo like speeches that the Palestinians must recognize the right to exist of Israel before peace negotiations can go forward. He could recognize Jewish claims to Jewish holy sites. He could express that Israel does not take excessive military action given the attacks she faces.

209 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:26:00pm

re: #205 publicityStunted

Deleted comments (i.e. links that contained malware, unbeknownst to those who first posted them)

I looked for the deleted ones. I think there was a malware problem in the 60-80ish range.

210 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:26:08pm

re: #175 imp_62

We have arguments (they stopped being discussions a while back) about this in my house. I feel increasingly that the evangelical Christian “embrace” of Israel is more akin to that of a boa constrictor than of a lover. Other side of the argument: Israel needs to take her friends where she can find them. I feel that there will be Jews long after evangelicals have disappeared. I would just as soon look at them as strategic allies in a limited capacity than as “friends”.

The evangelicals need a strong Israel, a very strong Israel because the “Dome of the Rock” must go away and be replaced by the “New Temple” before the “End Times” can start. Seriously, they need an intact Israel to build that damn temple and that is pretty much all they care about, they despise Jews as at the least misguided heretics and at worst the satanic killers of Jesus.

The evangelical church in this country is not and never will be a friend of the Jews, it will however do anything it can to promote Israel. That is why trying to decipher so many of their statements is so difficult, I see anti-Jewish, anti-Zionist, statements nearly every day that still support Israel as a nation. I was completely boggled by these at first, I couldn’t understand them, now I do.

211 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:26:48pm

re: #206 sattv4u2

It didn’t

You hiccuped twice

But I haven’t been drinking!!!
/I lied, sorry.

212 darthstar  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:27:00pm

re: #192 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I don’t know how this got overlooked:

Newt’s campaign promise: I know how to get the whole country to resemble Texas.

Um..no thanks.

I didn’t say I wanted Brazilian energy. I said I wanted “a Brazilian”…Newt interviewing with Hannity…the poor maintenance people were probably scrubbing to get the stains out of both chairs.

213 blueraven  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:27:02pm

re: #208 LudwigVanQuixote

He could tell the Arab world in his Cairo like speeches that the Palestinians must recognize the right to exist of Israel before peace negotiations can go forward. He could recognize Jewish claims to Jewish holy sites. He could express that Israel does not take excessive military action given the attacks she faces.

He did! WTF?

214 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:27:11pm

re: #199 Killgore Trout

“Why can’t we build mosques in Mecca”.

Brain trust.

215 wrenchwench  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:27:53pm

re: #199 Killgore Trout

EDL Supporter Confused by Journalists Microphone

[Video]

Monty Python does White Supremacists?

Dude, it’s a Celtic Cross without any arms!

216 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:28:23pm

re: #202 albusteve

no fire and maneuver to advance against the enemy…a lot of pot shots tho
I give them credit for not giving up…they have plenty of fight left

They’re looking better than they did at first. They are taking cover, shooting seems pretty wild but they are at least trying to aim now.

217 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:28:33pm
A whore is a woman who needs help.

I resent that. There are whores by free choice.

218 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:28:37pm

re: #208 LudwigVanQuixote

He could tell the Arab world in his Cairo like speeches that the Palestinians must recognize the right to exist of Israel before peace negotiations can go forward.

He did.

219 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:31:11pm

re: #208 LudwigVanQuixote

He could tell the Arab world in his Cairo like speeches that the Palestinians must recognize the right to exist of Israel before peace negotiations can go forward. He could recognize Jewish claims to Jewish holy sites. He could express that Israel does not take excessive military action given the attacks she faces.

In other words, he needs to go much further than Bush did, just in order not to be accused of being the anti-Christ?

Also, this wasn’t a ‘Cairo like speech’, but: For the Palestinians, efforts to delegitimize Israel will end in failure. Symbolic actions to isolate Israel at the United Nations in September won’t create an independent state. Palestinian leaders will not achieve peace or prosperity if Hamas insists on a path of terror and rejection. And Palestinians will never realize their independence by denying the right of Israel to exist.

I’m not saying I wouldn’t like more, just that the degree of hysteria from the same people who spent eight years telling me how Bush loved Israel seems…irrational.

220 darthstar  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:33:28pm

re: #219 SanFranciscoZionist

Irrational is an understatement. The goal is simple. Cast a negative light on everything the president does, play up the objections of the whackos around the planet as evidence of his incompetence, and then hope that drives voters to Romney/T-Paw/Palin/whomever.

221 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:34:13pm

re: #220 darthstar

Irrational is an understatement. The goal is simple. Cast a negative light on everything the president does, play up the objections of the whackos around the planet as evidence of his incompetence, and then hope that drives voters to Romney/T-Paw/Palin/whomever.

I hate to see it affecting people I know.

222 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:35:24pm

re: #199 Killgore Trout

EDL Supporter Confused by Journalists Microphone

[Video]

“Iraq was originally a Christian country”.

LOL! It’s like a gift that keeps on giving. Thanks for linking that.

224 Varek Raith  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:36:08pm

Ed is such a putz.

225 darthstar  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:36:21pm

re: #221 SanFranciscoZionist

I hate to see it affecting people I know.

They’ll be fine…in another few weeks this topic will have run its course and calmer heads will prevail.

226 goddamnedfrank  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:37:04pm

re: #219 SanFranciscoZionist

In other words, he needs to go much further than Bush did, just in order not to be accused of being the anti-Christ?

Also, this wasn’t a ‘Cairo like speech’, but: For the Palestinians, efforts to delegitimize Israel will end in failure. Symbolic actions to isolate Israel at the United Nations in September won’t create an independent state. Palestinian leaders will not achieve peace or prosperity if Hamas insists on a path of terror and rejection. And Palestinians will never realize their independence by denying the right of Israel to exist.

I’m not saying I wouldn’t like more, just that the degree of hysteria from the same people who spent eight years telling me how Bush loved Israel seems…irrational.

Also, from the same speech:

Recognizing that negotiations need to begin with the issues of territory and security does not mean that it will be easy to come back to the table. In particular, the recent announcement of an agreement between Fatah and Hamas raises profound and legitimate questions for Israel - how can one negotiate with a party that has shown itself unwilling to recognize your right to exist. In the weeks and months to come, Palestinian leaders will have to provide a credible answer to that question.

227 darthstar  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:39:46pm

The Senate is voting on Ryan’s kill Medicare bill today. Any bets on the over/under for Republican “yay” votes?

I’m guessing the ten Senators (except Lugar) up for reelection in 2012 will vote No.

228 sattv4u2  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:40:38pm

re: #224 Varek Raith

Ed is such a putz.

As a putz, I find that insulting!

229 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:41:26pm

re: #218 Obdicut

He did.

Really? And yet there seems to be a push for negotiations with no such recognition from the Palestinians.

Did this recognition of a right to exist materialize and I missed it?

So no he most certainly did not say that there would be no peace negotiations without the right of Israel to exist being acknowledged in any meaningful way.

re: #219 SanFranciscoZionist

You will notice I defend President Obama quite a lot. You will also notice that I never considered President Bush or President Clinton to be particular friends of Israel.

President Obama is very much in line with US policy as has been promulgated for the past several administrations. The fact that the US must appease oil producing nations has always made that policy less fair to Israel than it should be.

As to recognizing Jewish holy sites, last I checked Hebron was on the wrong side of the present lines and many fail to see any sort of Jewish ownership of the Temple mount. No one cares about the desecration of Joseph’s tomb either, and Hamas discussions of wiping all traces of Jews from the land are un-noticed.

So I agree with you that President Obama is overly demonized compared to other administrations. I argue with right wing Jews about this all the time and point out people like Baker and Reagan. Yes, stalkers, Reagan was not particularly good to Israel.

However, there can be no peace without any sort of basic acknowledgement of the right to exist of one of the peace partners. All talks are a sham without this and the sham continues - largely at the pushing of the US.

230 ProBosniaLiberal  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:41:38pm

re: #222 Slumbering Behemoth

Well, to be perfectly blunt it was…..1300 years ago.

There are actually a large number of enclaves in the nation with a large Christian Minority, and in a few cases, an outright majority.

231 Varek Raith  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:41:42pm

re: #228 sattv4u2

As a putz, I find that insulting!

No.
You’re a schlemiel.
/

232 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:42:07pm

I swear doc, I fell on it!! (ouch)

233 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:43:07pm

re: #230 ProLifeLiberal

Well, to be perfectly blunt it was…1300 years ago.

There are actually a large number of enclaves in the nation with a large Christian Minority, and in a few cases, an outright majority.

Obviously they are overlooking the historic Crom worshipers of the region, if you go back far enough.

234 sattv4u2  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:43:14pm

re: #231 Varek Raith

No.
You’re a schlemiel.
/

When did I get a promotion,,
and more important, how much more is in my Zionist check!?!?!

235 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:43:24pm

CHART: Bush Policies Dominant Cause Of National Debt

Who cudda knowd?

236 euphgeek  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:43:25pm

I stopped watching The Ed Show on a regular basis a long time ago. Once in a while I’ll tune in but his firebagger talking points turned me off from him for the most part.

237 Targetpractice  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:43:34pm

re: #227 darthstar

The Senate is voting on Ryan’s kill Medicare bill today. Any bets on the over/under for Republican “yay” votes?

I’m guessing the ten Senators (except Lugar) up for reelection in 2012 will vote No.

Either way, the GOP’s screwed. If it fails, then it finally puts a bullet in the “The Democrats won’t bring it up for a vote/Only plan on the table!” talking points. If it succeeds, Obama can make a big play out of vetoing it, refusing to pass a budget that would hurt so many to benefit so few.

Personally, I’m taking bets on what the excuse will be when it fails. I’ve got $20 on “The RINOs killed it!”

238 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:44:05pm

re: #230 ProLifeLiberal

“1300 years ago” doesn’t quite qualify as “originally” though.

239 darthstar  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:44:24pm

re: #229 LudwigVanQuixote

240 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:44:58pm

re: #230 ProLifeLiberal

Well, to be perfectly blunt it was…1300 years ago.

There are actually a large number of enclaves in the nation with a large Christian Minority, and in a few cases, an outright majority.

I know there’s always been (until lately) a big Christian community, but was Iraq actually a Christian region before 700?

241 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:45:55pm

re: #235 Dreggas

CHART: Bush Policies Dominant Cause Of National Debt

Who cudda knowd?

That’s a neat chart. Let’s spread it:

Image: CBPPpublicdebt.jpg

242 darthstar  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:45:57pm

re: #239 darthstar

Well, that was disappointing…the magical disappearing response.

243 sattv4u2  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:46:33pm

re: #242 darthstar

Well, that was disappointing…the magical disappearing response.

and to think, it was the one time I agreed with you!!!

/

244 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:46:55pm

re: #240 SanFranciscoZionist

I know there’s always been (until lately) a big Christian community, but was Iraq actually a Christian region before 700?

Don’t know much about the area, but it was just a couple hundred years before that that the Babylonian Talmud was being finished up right around there, and I never had the impression that the surrounding culture was predominantly Christian.

I could be totally wrong.

245 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:46:59pm

re: #233 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I hear He’s making a comeback.

246 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:47:27pm

re: #238 Slumbering Behemoth

“1300 years ago” doesn’t quite qualify as “originally” though.

Let’s play the “Who’s Really Indigenous? Game!”

247 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:47:31pm

re: #242 darthstar

Well, that was disappointing…the magical disappearing response.

ITS THE RAPTURE!

248 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:48:19pm

re: #247 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

ITS THE RAPTURE!

Darthstar’s post went to heaven?

249 darthstar  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:48:34pm

re: #248 SanFranciscoZionist

Darthstar’s post went to heaven?

Well, I sure as hell ain’t going.

250 simoom  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:48:37pm

re: #208 LudwigVanQuixote

He could tell the Arab world in his Cairo like speeches that the Palestinians must recognize the right to exist of Israel before peace negotiations can go forward. He could recognize Jewish claims to Jewish holy sites. He could express that Israel does not take excessive military action given the attacks she faces.

From his ‘09 Cairo speech:

The Palestinian Authority must develop its capacity to govern, with institutions that serve the needs of its people. Hamas does have support among some Palestinians, but they also have to recognize they have responsibilities. To play a role in fulfilling Palestinian aspirations, to unify the Palestinian people, Hamas must put an end to violence, recognize past agreements, recognize Israel’s right to exist.
…
And finally, the Arab states must recognize that the Arab Peace Initiative was an important beginning, but not the end of their responsibilities. The Arab-Israeli conflict should no longer be used to distract the people of Arab nations from other problems. Instead, it must be a cause for action to help the Palestinian people develop the institutions that will sustain their state, to recognize Israel’s legitimacy, and to choose progress over a self-defeating focus on the past.

From his recent Middle-East speech:

For the Palestinians, efforts to delegitimize Israel will end in failure. Symbolic actions to isolate Israel at the United Nations in September won’t create an independent state. Palestinian leaders will not achieve peace or prosperity if Hamas insists on a path of terror and rejection. And Palestinians will never realize their independence by denying the right of Israel to exist.

—-

Our commitment to Israel’s security is unshakable. And we will stand against attempts to single it out for criticism in international forums.
…
As for security, every state has the right to self-defense, and Israel must be able to defend itself — by itself — against any threat.

From his AIPAC address:

You also see our commitment to Israel’s security in our steadfast opposition to any attempt to de-legitimize the State of Israel. As I said at the United Nations last year, “Israel’s existence must not be a subject for debate,” and “efforts to chip away at Israel’s legitimacy will only be met by the unshakeable opposition of the United States.”

So when the Durban Review Conference advanced anti-Israel sentiment, we withdrew. In the wake of the Goldstone Report, we stood up strongly for Israel’s right to defend itself. When an effort was made to insert the United Nations into matters that should be resolved through direct negotiations between Israelis and Palestinians, we vetoed it.

And so, in both word and deed, we have been unwavering in our support of Israel’s security. And it is precisely because of our commitment to Israel’s long-term security that we have worked to advance peace between Israelis and Palestinians.
…
As for security, every state has the right to self-defense, and Israel must be able to defend itself –- by itself -– against any threat.

—-

No country can be expected to negotiate with a terrorist organization sworn to its destruction. And we will continue to demand that Hamas accept the basic responsibilities of peace, including recognizing Israel’s right to exist and rejecting violence and adhering to all existing agreements. And we once again call on Hamas to release Gilad Shalit, who has been kept from his family for five long years.
…
Moreover, we know that peace demands a partner –- which is why I said that Israel cannot be expected to negotiate with Palestinians who do not recognize its right to exist.
251 darthstar  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:49:14pm

re: #250 simoom

From his ‘09 Cairo speech:

From his recent Middle-East speech:

—-

From his AIPAC address:

—-

But he could TELL them…you know, tell.

252 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:49:40pm

re: #246 SanFranciscoZionist

Let’s play the “Who’s Really Indigenous? Game!”

Sounds fun. I vote “sand”.

253 makeitstop  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:49:49pm

re: #232 Cannadian Club Akbar

I swear doc, I fell on it!! (ouch)

‘Everybody, get back! Give him air! Oh, wait…’

254 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:50:14pm

re: #248 SanFranciscoZionist

Darthstar’s post went to heaven?

Nope. Crom smote it.

255 darthstar  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:51:04pm

re: #254 Slumbering Behemoth

Nope. Crom smote it.

Yay, Crom!

256 Kronocide  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:52:55pm

Click on LGF in a quick work break drive by, see 4 posts eviscerating the GOP on regressive misogynist abortion policy and giving a lefty blowhard crap for being an asshole.

Brings a smile to my mug.

257 blueraven  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:53:27pm

re: #250 simoom

From his ‘09 Cairo speech:

From his recent Middle-East speech:

—-

From his AIPAC address:

—-

Yes, but the Palestinians haven’t done that yet! He has to make them DO IT!!

258 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:53:40pm

re: #249 darthstar

Well, I sure as hell ain’t going.

Reminds me of a scene in “Catherine, Called Birdy”, where the little girl has heard about a local merchant (they’re in England, around 1290), who’s built a privy out over the river so there’s no mucking out to do.

She thinks that she would like to go use this guy’s bathroom, and tells herself that if she can’t go to far-away lands and travel on the sea herself, “I would like to think that my water went.”

(She’s about thirteen. Her father is looking for a husband for her. She’s looking for a career. She’s considered monk, crusader, travelling juggler, and a few others, but is being hindered by class, gender, and the inability to juggle).

259 Sionainn  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:53:50pm

OT:

Sharron Angle bows out of the race.

260 RadicalModerate  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:55:03pm

Gotta love some of the Google Ads that accompany articles like these.

This one now has one from the loon from American Thinker, Fred N. Sauer shilling his “book”- which looks a lot more like a pamphlet titled “How Liberalism Destroys Peoples and Nations”, where he drags out that old completely disproven canard that liberalism==socialism.

261 ProBosniaLiberal  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:55:20pm

re: #240 SanFranciscoZionist

That’s true. There still is a Christian Community. Largely centered around Mosul, Kirkuk, and Kurdistan.

Now all we have to do is out-maneuver the Salafists, and things should get better.

262 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:55:28pm

re: #259 Sionainn

OT:

Sharron Angle bows out of the race.

Sharron Angle was in the race? What the hell was she going to list as accomplishments?

“I did what no one thought possible—I sent Harry Reid back to the Senate!”

263 darthstar  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:55:48pm

re: #232 Cannadian Club Akbar

I swear doc, I fell on it!! (ouch)

“Pierced his buttocks”…didn’t slip up the corn hole. Hopefully, this story will get lots of traction, because the copycats here in the US who will be sticking air hoses up their sphincters in order sue for damages after ‘falling’ on them will be fun to watch.

264 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:56:29pm

re: #259 Sionainn

OT:

Sharron Angle bows out of the race.

Three-legged or potato sack?

Wait, she was actually running for political office? Again?

265 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:57:12pm

re: #263 darthstar

I know it pierced but I could only think of Seinfeld.

266 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:57:20pm

re: #263 darthstar
That’s just twisted thinking Darth…..
Expected nothing less! Atta Boy!

267 Sionainn  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:57:36pm

re: #264 Slumbering Behemoth

Three-legged or potato sack?

Wait, she was actually running for political office? Again?

Yes. She was running for Dean Heller’s House seat after he was appointed to fill Ensign’s Senate seat.

268 goddamnedfrank  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:57:37pm

re: #229 LudwigVanQuixote

Really? And yet there seems to be a push for negotiations with no such recognition from the Palestinians.

Did this recognition of a right to exist materialize and I missed it?

So no he most certainly did not say that there would be no peace negotiations without the right of Israel to exist being acknowledged in any meaningful way.

Jesus Christ, if you’re going to act like a smarmy, cocksure know-it-all the least you can do is not be completely wrong.

269 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:58:15pm

Might have a temp job (I’ll take anything for now) being a deck hand at a local marina. Boats, water, sunshine, Florida. Who knew?

270 darthstar  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:58:51pm

re: #259 Sionainn

OT:

Sharron Angle bows out of the race.

Aww…she got disenfranchised.

In giving up her bid, Angle denounced the special election, calling it “an illegitimate process that disenfranchises the electorate” because there’s no primary and party leaders may end up nominating their favored candidates for the ballot, depending on the outcome of a pending court challenge.

“I do not have any desire to participate in a process described by others as a ‘ballot royale’ or a situation where the party central committees choose their nominees because it makes a mockery of the most important constitutional element in exercising freedom,” Angle said in a statement.

She probably thinks “Ballot Royale” refers to President Obama’s visiting the Queen of England.

271 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:59:03pm

re: #267 Sionainn

It’s like watching a kid run head first into a brick wall. Over, and over. and…

272 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:59:03pm

re: #259 Sionainn

OT:

Sharron Angle bows out of the race.

BUT WHY?

273 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:59:22pm

re: #269 Cannadian Club Akbar

Might have a temp job (I’ll take anything for now) being a deck hand at a local marina. Boats, water, sunshine, Florida. Who knew?

And they will PAY YOU???
Right on!!

274 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 25, 2011 1:59:38pm

re: #269 Cannadian Club Akbar

I hate you right now.

275 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 25, 2011 2:00:00pm

re: #269 Cannadian Club Akbar

Oh, and congrats.

276 Sionainn  Wed, May 25, 2011 2:01:10pm

re: #272 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

BUT WHY?

“It’s not faaaiiirrr.” *said in a most annoying, high-pitched, whining voice*
That’s her excuse.

277 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, May 25, 2011 2:02:25pm

re: #269 Cannadian Club Akbar

Wait a minute…you’re WAY over qualified for that job…
Don’t sell your self short!!
LOL
Congrats indeed…where in Florida?

278 makeitstop  Wed, May 25, 2011 2:02:42pm

re: #270 darthstar

Aww…she got disenfranchised.

She probably thinks “Ballot Royale” refers to President Obama’s visiting the Queen of England.

Isn’t that what they call a Whopper in France? /

279 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, May 25, 2011 2:03:50pm

re: #277 reloadingisnotahobby

Wait a minute…you’re WAY over qualified for that job…
Don’t sell your self short!!
LOL
Congrats indeed…where in Florida?

[Link: www.myfoxtampabay.com…]

280 Targetpractice  Wed, May 25, 2011 2:04:20pm

re: #270 darthstar

Aww…she got disenfranchised.

She probably thinks “Ballot Royale” refers to President Obama’s visiting the Queen of England.

Sorry, I read “Battle Royale” and suddenly had mental images of exploding collars.

/

281 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 25, 2011 2:05:17pm

re: #279 Cannadian Club Akbar

You are determined to earn my hatred, aren’t you?

282 darthstar  Wed, May 25, 2011 2:06:00pm

re: #266 reloadingisnotahobby

That’s just twisted thinking Darth…
Expected nothing less! Atta Boy!

Look at the number of people who have “fallen” on their cell phones set to vibrate and couldn’t get them out of their asses - some even “protecting” the phone from water damage with a condom, but taking it to the shower because they didn’t want to “miss an important call”…It’s the American way!

283 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, May 25, 2011 2:06:27pm

re: #281 Slumbering Behemoth

You are determined to earn my hatred, aren’t you?

Yes. That is where I grew up. And if it makes you feel better, I almost drowned there when I was a kid.:)

284 wrenchwench  Wed, May 25, 2011 2:08:44pm

re: #256 BigPapa

Click on LGF in a quick work break drive by, see 4 posts eviscerating the GOP on regressive misogynist abortion policy and giving a lefty blowhard crap for being an asshole.

Brings a smile to my mug.

Charles is the best, isn’t he?

285 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 25, 2011 2:09:17pm

re: #283 Cannadian Club Akbar

:seething:

I grew up in the SF bay area, but I haven’t so much as even smelled the ocean air in too many years. I will always miss it.

286 Vicious Babushka  Wed, May 25, 2011 2:13:39pm

re: #129 LudwigVanQuixote

BE safe.

I just made it home to higher ground. There were some scary spots of water over the roadway. Good thing I drive a truck. If I was in my little car, I would have swept away.

287 wrenchwench  Wed, May 25, 2011 2:14:07pm

re: #268 goddamnedfrank

Jesus Christ, if you’re going to act like a smarmy, cocksure know-it-all the least you can do is not be completely wrong.

I wish to express my appreciation for this comment, but I’m not exactly sure what to say. The upding was insufficient.

288 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, May 25, 2011 2:18:12pm

re: #268 goddamnedfrank

Jesus Christ, if you’re going to act like a smarmy, cocksure know-it-all the least you can do is not be completely wrong.

Really… And what is completely wrong about that. The statement is no peace talks without acknowledgement of existence.

Did Obama say that or not? If he did I will be very happily wrong. If he did not, you should learn to read.

289 Varek Raith  Wed, May 25, 2011 2:23:43pm

re: #238 Slumbering Behemoth

“1300 years ago” doesn’t quite qualify as “originally” though.

“1000 years ago in the future…”

290 DodgerFan1988  Wed, May 25, 2011 2:28:09pm

Ed Schultz shouldn’t have use those dispicable words in describing Laura Ingraham. A better word is racist because she actually said on her radio show all Hispanic-Americans are illegals because their ancestors came here illegally.

291 wrenchwench  Wed, May 25, 2011 2:36:01pm

re: #290 DodgerFan1988

Ed Schultz shouldn’t have use those dispicable words in describing Laura Ingraham. A better word is racist because she actually said on her radio show all Hispanic-Americans are illegals because their ancestors came here illegally.

She probably read Hanson’s Mexifornia, in which he mocks the line, “I didn’t cross the border, the border crossed me.”

Youtube Video
292 blueraven  Wed, May 25, 2011 2:38:04pm

re: #288 LudwigVanQuixote

Really… And what is completely wrong about that. The statement is no peace talks without acknowledgement of existence.

Did Obama say that or not? If he did I will be very happily wrong. If he did not, you should learn to read.

See post 250

No country can be expected to negotiate with a terrorist organization sworn to its destruction. And we will continue to demand that Hamas accept the basic responsibilities of peace, including recognizing Israel’s right to exist and rejecting violence and adhering to all existing agreements. And we once again call on Hamas to release Gilad Shalit, who has been kept from his family for five long years.
…

What do you want?

293 zora  Wed, May 25, 2011 2:50:30pm

re: #154 blueraven

I think “most” TV personalities use their sexuality in some way or another. I mean when Shepard Smith flashes his great smile, and shows off his natty suits, is that not using every thing he has? Of course it is.

yes that’s why anderson copper in his x-small shirts always gets called out for being a slut. /

294 goddamnedfrank  Wed, May 25, 2011 3:08:17pm

re: #288 LudwigVanQuixote

Really… And what is completely wrong about that. The statement is no peace talks without acknowledgement of existence.

Did Obama say that or not? If he did I will be very happily wrong. If he did not, you should learn to read.

Obama said:

Recognizing that negotiations need to begin with the issues of territory and security does not mean that it will be easy to come back to the table. In particular, the recent announcement of an agreement between Fatah and Hamas raises profound and legitimate questions for Israel - how can one negotiate with a party that has shown itself unwilling to recognize your right to exist. In the weeks and months to come, Palestinian leaders will have to provide a credible answer to that question.

and

For the Palestinians, efforts to delegitimize Israel will end in failure. Symbolic actions to isolate Israel at the United Nations in September won’t create an independent state. Palestinian leaders will not achieve peace or prosperity if Hamas insists on a path of terror and rejection. And Palestinians will never realize their independence by denying the right of Israel to exist.

I don’t know how he can be any more clear, he’s making the Palestinian acceptance of Israel’s right to exist a pre-requisite for both their statehood and for Israel to come back to the negotiating table. He’s also broadcasting a veto of any UN statehood resolution that doesn’t contain that language.

295 bratwurst  Wed, May 25, 2011 3:14:23pm

re: #250 simoom

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU. While I salute your work, I also fear that there is a percentage of the public that will ALWAYS react to the messenger and not the message no matter how many facts you hit them over the head with.

296 goddamnedfrank  Wed, May 25, 2011 3:29:12pm

Hey Ludwig,

Since you clearly didn’t pay attention to the other parts of Obama’s speech I’m wondering if you also missed the part where he said any future Palestinian state will be non-militarized?:

The full and phased withdrawal of Israeli military forces should be coordinated with the assumption of Palestinian security responsibility in a sovereign, non-militarized state. The duration of this transition period must be agreed, and the effectiveness of security arrangements must be demonstrated.

297 goddamnedfrank  Wed, May 25, 2011 3:30:13pm

re: #296 goddamnedfrank

Fucked up the quote:

The full and phased withdrawal of Israeli military forces should be coordinated with the assumption of Palestinian security responsibility in a sovereign, non-militarized state. The duration of this transition period must be agreed, and the effectiveness of security arrangements must be demonstrated.

298 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, May 25, 2011 3:47:19pm

Hey, Schultz, you know nothing.
But you are a noted analinguist and master of smegmology.

299 Achilles Tang  Wed, May 25, 2011 4:10:20pm

re: #2 Dreggas

Ed Schultz is really annoying IMO and not surprised he’d say something like this. He’s a douche bag.

She is a slut. I happened to listen to her on the radio on this issue. She sounded like a female version of Rush Limbaugh and she was talking exactly like Ed says, even if he is over the top sometimes, as if the President should cancel every state visit anytime there is a weather tragedy.

She was disgusting. Did you listen to her?

300 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, May 25, 2011 4:18:50pm

re: #299 Naso Tang

Draw the connection between her being a slut and being a Limbaugh-esque attack dog, please.

301 zora  Wed, May 25, 2011 4:27:46pm

re: #299 Naso Tang

She is a slut. I happened to listen to her on the radio on this issue. She sounded like a female version of Rush Limbaugh and she was talking exactly like Ed says, even if he is over the top sometimes, as if the President should cancel every state visit anytime there is a weather tragedy.

She was disgusting. Did you listen to her?

then slut doesn’t mean what you think it does.

302 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, May 25, 2011 4:39:18pm

re: #299 Naso Tang

She is a slut. I happened to listen to her on the radio on this issue. She sounded like a female version of Rush Limbaugh and she was talking exactly like Ed says, even if he is over the top sometimes, as if the President should cancel every state visit anytime there is a weather tragedy.

She was disgusting. Did you listen to her?

How often do you hear Rush being labeled a slut?

303 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, May 25, 2011 5:09:24pm

re: #294 goddamnedfrank

Obama said:

and

I don’t know how he can be any more clear, he’s making the Palestinian acceptance of Israel’s right to exist a pre-requisite for both their statehood and for Israel to come back to the negotiating table. He’s also broadcasting a veto of any UN statehood resolution that doesn’t contain that language.

He can be more clear by not pushing forward those empty negotiations when he knows one side does not actually want peace. Actions always speak louder than words.

The statement is:

No peace talks without acknowledgement of existence.

And yet, there is a push for these talks. It is all theater.

Perhaps you need to learn English.

304 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, May 25, 2011 5:12:56pm

re: #250 simoom

And yet the talks are being pressured forward and Israel is being pressured to make concessions for a non-existent peace deal.

Let me repeat:

What would make many many center leaning Jews happy (in answer to SFZ’s rhetorical question) is no talks without a firm acknowledgement of Israel’s right to exist. No such acknowledgement has come and yet the talks are pushed forward.

Am I suddenly speaking a language no one here can read?

305 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, May 25, 2011 5:13:56pm

re: #268 goddamnedfrank

And if you are going to get high and mighty you should learn to read.

306 wrenchwench  Wed, May 25, 2011 5:19:35pm

re: #299 Naso Tang

She is a slut. …


Let’s check the ratings:

Rating: -4
Total: 6

Minus: 5
blueraven, eclectic infidel, jamesfirecat, wrenchwench, zora

Plus: 1
LudwigVanQuixote

No surprise there.

307 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, May 25, 2011 5:22:04pm

re: #306 wrenchwench

Let’s check the ratings:

No surprise there.

Hey wench…

XXXOOOXXOOXX

308 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, May 25, 2011 5:24:59pm

Jimmah come out.

Simple questions to your Israel hating self:

Are peace talks being pushed by the Obama Administration?

Have the Palestinians acknowledged Israel’s right to exist?

However much you hate the fact of it, most Israelis and most Jews world wide think that pressuring Israel to make concessions to a group that won’t acknowledge Israel’s right to exist to be very unfair.

True statements.

So save me your Israel hating snark and defend your indefensible positions.

309 wrenchwench  Wed, May 25, 2011 5:26:21pm

re: #307 LudwigVanQuixote

Hey wench…

XXXOOOXXOOXX

Whatever, dude.

See you tomorrow.

310 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, May 25, 2011 5:35:02pm

re: #296 goddamnedfrank

And as a necessary condition to even that Israel’s right to exist must be acknowledged.

Law hawk wrote essentially the same thing not a few days ago and was updinged by many now downdinging this same statement.

How curious…

Well not really curious.

Simply sad.

311 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, May 25, 2011 5:41:08pm

And Jami we know where you stand on Israel also… Why not just come out a little more?

Why, in your opinion should Israel be forced into negotiations with a party that clearly does not even acknowledge the right of Israel to even exist?

Please explain how those concessions can possibly bring a peace?

Rather than simply snarking, why not actually debate?

312 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, May 25, 2011 5:50:32pm

Jimmah… and Jami

Why should Israel, in your opinion, be forced to make concessions that can not possibly bring peace, because the other side refuses step zero, acknowledgement of right of exist?

Why?

I can see the idea upsets you.

So rather than snarking, please explain why you think Israel should give anything to a group that wants all Israel destroyed?

Please, just explain yourselves. You are both usually eloquent. speak up.

313 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, May 25, 2011 5:51:54pm

So ok… the moonbats don’t want to play. Laters!

314 blueraven  Wed, May 25, 2011 5:56:30pm

re: #310 LudwigVanQuixote

And as a necessary condition to even that Israel’s right to exist must be acknowledged.

Law hawk wrote essentially the same thing not a few days ago and was updinged by many now downdinging this same statement.

How curious…

Well not really curious.

Simply sad.

What is sad is that you cant admit that Obama demanded all of these things.

Because the Palestinians have not done so is not the point here. You are right, they probably never will. I dont see Obama pushing for talks without this condition being met. But instead encouraging both sides to do what it takes.

Yes, lawhawk has written quite beautifully on this.
He was being honest in his comments . You should really read them sometime.

315 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, May 25, 2011 6:01:43pm

re: #314 blueraven

Let’s try English one more time…

The talks are still being pushed forward…

Therefore, the words are empty. Further, the words no talks until recognition have not been uttered.

So simple to say and not in any of the things you wanted me to read.

Sorry, but blue, you are being a bit willfully blind here.

316 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, May 25, 2011 6:06:29pm

I can see Frank has come back too…

Care to answer the question? Where did Obama (and to be fair, no other US president I know of has said such a thing either) say and implement a policy of no talks without recognition?

From my first post until now, that has been my point. Many, many Israelis would like this. I would too. It was a direct response to a question.

All of you moonbats following this… who cares to discuss that point?

317 goddamnedfrank  Wed, May 25, 2011 6:14:31pm

re: #315 LudwigVanQuixote

Let’s try English one more time…

The talks are still being pushed forward…

Therefore, the words are empty.

One doesn’t follow from the other.

Further, the words no talks until recognition have not been uttered.

So what? That’s your own bullshit made up standard. Fact is that Obama has said that in the end Israel will not have to give up anything unless the Palestinians meet this demand; that talks or no talks there will be no Palestinian state without that State’s explicit acknowledgment of Israel’s right to exist.

So simple to say and not in any of the things you wanted me to read.

Sorry, but blue, you are being a bit willfully blind here.

And you’re acting every bit like a pedantic little know-it-all that can’t see the forrest for the trees. Obama is trying to save Israel from a UN resolution where all but two nations call for Palestinian statehood, and the only reason it doesn’t happen is our veto. You refuse to see the point of staying engaged when the Obama administration clearly has Israel’s back.

318 jamesfirecat  Wed, May 25, 2011 6:20:22pm

re: #312 LudwigVanQuixote

Jimmah… and Jami

Why should Israel, in your opinion, be forced to make concessions that can not possibly bring peace, because the other side refuses step zero, acknowledgement of right of exist?

Why?

I can see the idea upsets you.

So rather than snarking, please explain why you think Israel should give anything to a group that wants all Israel destroyed?

Please, just explain yourselves. You are both usually eloquent. speak up.

I’ll assume you’re referring to me by “Jami” since I don’t see anyone else hear on this thread.

I feel that you are correct that no president has said that talks won’t begin until the Palestinians agree that Israel has a right to exist.

That said I also feel that it makes more sense… or at least it is more reasonable to expect this to be the end point of negotiations rather than for it to be the start of them.

You may not be able to gain anything from the person you are bargaining with if you know they are doing it in bad faith… but you can gain advantages in regards to a third party.

For example, assume you buy something from a thief who you know intends to break into your house and steal back whatever you buy from him… but when he attempts to do so, you call the police and they arrest him and so you are able to keep what you bought, and he sold it to you at a low cost because he thought he could just take it back.

Even if the Palestinians negotiate in bad faith, it is possible (in theory at least) for those negotiations to give Israel a political weapon to wield against them in the UN and otherwise in world opinion. That is why I feel there can be at least “something” to be gained from negotiation, even if no true negotiated peace could possibly be reached without the previously mentioned agreement that Israel has a right to exist.

I say this knowing full well that I am not as well versed in the Israel situation as I could be, but we all have our blind/weak spots and the best we can hope to do is be aware of them.

LVQ I like you but much like Dark Falcon sometimes you say things that I totally disagree with like when you accuse Jimmah of hating Israel in 308 without giving any proof.

So I downding because I feel the tone you are taking is not conductive to having a reasonable and constructive argument.

319 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, May 25, 2011 6:20:58pm

re: #317 goddamnedfrank

Well thank you for responding:

One doesn’t follow from the other.

ON the contrary, a step before making peace is acknowledging that you aren’t trying to kill the other fellow. If no such acknowledgement exists it rather precludes peace. Therefore without such an acknowledgement, peace talks are empty.

That should be pretty basic logic.

So what? That’s your own bullshit made up standard.

On the contrary.

1. It is hardly bullshit since peace is impossible without it.
2. I mentioned it as a direct response to a question.
3. Many Israelis and most moderate and right leaning Jews would agree with me on this. Which is why it was a legitimate answer top teh question in the first place.

So again, please do try to follow along before making snark.

Also, why exactly would you feel this is unimportant?

If the Palestinians actually want peace, why is it so hard for them to put into a treaty and a position statement?


Fact is that Obama has said that in the end Israel will not have to give up anything unless the Palestinians meet this demand; that talks or no talks there will be no Palestinian state without that State’s explicit acknowledgment of Israel’s right to exist.

So then why are there supposed to be talks in the coming weeks without that demand being met?

You really aren’t making much sense there Frank. Thank you for playing though.

320 Usually refered to as anyways  Wed, May 25, 2011 6:24:08pm

If the Palestinians won’t recognize Israel’s right to exist, and Israel will not move forward without it, this peace process will be at an end, and everyone will continue to live under fear.

321 goddamnedfrank  Wed, May 25, 2011 6:25:35pm

re: #319 LudwigVanQuixote

Obama said it would understandably be very difficult for the Israelis to come back to the negotiating table, and for legitimate reasons:

Recognizing that negotiations need to begin with the issues of territory and security does not mean that it will be easy to come back to the table. In particular, the recent announcement of an agreement between Fatah and Hamas raises profound and legitimate questions for Israel - how can one negotiate with a party that has shown itself unwilling to recognize your right to exist. In the weeks and months to come, Palestinian leaders will have to provide a credible answer to that question.

I don’t know why this is so difficult for you to acknowledge. It’s like you just don’t want to believe what he plainly said. Obama clearly placed the onus on the Palestinians to address this issue before any progress could reasonably be expected.

Like I said, you’re being unbelievably pedantic.

322 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, May 25, 2011 6:25:51pm

re: #318 jamesfirecat

Note the upding for that comment.

What I said about Jimmah and his views on Israel has been brewing in my mind for some time.

As to the main point that you argue, very politely I must add, I must disagree.

Israel has been making concessions for 60 years now without an acknowledgement of its right to exist. The only two places where there has been an actual peace treaty negotiated were with Egypt and Jordan who agreed to accept Israel’s right to exist.

Without this there is nothing if you look at the history.

I hear what you are driving at in your comment, but please consider it this way as well.

If I were promising that you had no right to live, that I would burn your house down and kill your family and made frequent attempts to do so, wouldn’t an acknowledgement on my part that you really ought not be hunted like an animal be the first step and not the last to making amends?

323 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, May 25, 2011 6:28:17pm

re: #320 ozbloke

If the Palestinians won’t recognize Israel’s right to exist, and Israel will not move forward without it, this peace process will be at an end, and everyone will continue to live under fear.

Or the Palestinians eventually are forced to G-d forbid, take responsibility for their own actions and make peace. The absolute best way for there to be peace would be to cut off aid to them and make them understand that they no longer get a free ride.

324 jamesfirecat  Wed, May 25, 2011 6:31:37pm

re: #322 LudwigVanQuixote

Note the upding for that comment.

What I said about Jimmah and his views on Israel has been brewing in my mind for some time.

As to the main point that you argue, very politely I must add, I must disagree.

Israel has been making concessions for 60 years now without an acknowledgement of its right to exist. The only two places where there has been an actual peace treaty negotiated were with Egypt and Jordan who agreed to accept Israel’s right to exist.

Without this there is nothing if you look at the history.

I hear what you are driving at in your comment, but please consider it this way as well.

If I were promising that you had no right to live, that I would burn your house down and kill your family and made frequent attempts to do so, wouldn’t an acknowledgement on my part that you really ought not be hunted like an animal be the first step and not the last to making amends?

The question LVQ then becomes one of how do we obtain something like that?

In the long run it is simply impossible to make people do what they don’t want to do.

If the current group of people in charge of Palestine want to see Israel wiped off the map then in turn they must be removed from power before any lasting peace can be made.

Therefore at some point it would seem like Israel would need to fully invade Palestine, take it over, and rebuild it from the ground up with laws put in place about how certain types of governments can’t be allowed the same way we did to Japan after WW2.

Does that sound about right to you LVQ? I’m not going to argue (in this post) about the “hows” or “whens” that these events come into place, I’m just asking if you also see this series of events as the only way to insure peace or do you have something else in mind?

325 Usually refered to as anyways  Wed, May 25, 2011 6:32:23pm

re: #323 LudwigVanQuixote

Or the Palestinians eventually are forced to G-d forbid, take responsibility for their own actions and make peace. The absolute best way for there to be peace would be to cut off aid to them and make them understand that they no longer get a free ride.

As long as the you don’t mind the people suffering.

Seriously Ludwig, can I ask a question?
Is it words you want, if they say these words will there be peace, I’m sure its about more than that, really.

I believe both Israel and Palestine receive aid, how would you feel if some nation removed Israels aid, would it make Israel do what the Palestinians ask, I don’t think so.

326 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, May 25, 2011 6:32:25pm

re: #321 goddamnedfrank

Obama said it would understandably be very difficult for the Israelis to come back to the negotiating table, and for legitimate reasons:

I don’t know why this is so difficult for you to acknowledge. It’s like you just don’t want to believe what he plainly said. Obama clearly placed the onus on the Palestinians to address this issue before any progress could reasonably be expected.

Like I said, you’re being unbelievably pedantic.

Frank… one more time… He most certainly did not say that. I and many others consider this step one.

I was asked what he could do that would make more Jewish people like him.

I answered that he could announce no talks without acknowledgement. This also implies not pushing more talks without that acknowledgement.

You can disagree with that standard and we can talk about why that is important and we can debate that. That is fine. However, he most certainly did not meet that standard, no US president has that I know of, and it is most certainly NOT a little pr pedantic point.

327 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, May 25, 2011 6:40:32pm

re: #324 jamesfirecat

The question LVQ then becomes one of how do we obtain something like that?

In the long run it is simply impossible to make people do what they don’t want to do.

If the current group of people in charge of Palestine want to see Israel wiped off the map then in turn they must be removed from power before any lasting peace can be made.

Agreed.

Therefore at some point it would seem like Israel would need to fully invade Palestine, take it over, and rebuild it from the ground up with laws put in place about how certain types of governments can’t be allowed the same way we did to Japan after WW2.

Israel has neither the manpower or the economy to do such a thing.

Does that sound about right to you LVQ?

No. For the above reasons.

I’m not going to argue (in this post) about the “hows” or “whens” that these events come into place, I’m just asking if you also see this series of events as the only way to insure peace or do you have something else in mind?

Again no.

There are many different options. The nicest is:

Remove the fundamental issue.

Consider this. These are the only people in the world to start multiple wars, continually wage attack after attack, and as the loser make demands on the victor.

The Palestinians who already receive more aid per capita, could frankly be forced to fend for themselves. Their Arab brethren will not directly help them, not have they ever. Very quickly the Palestinians would have to worry about building an infrastructure and not letting what economy they do have go to their pseudo military organizations and into the palaces of their corrupt elites.

Ironically, the Israelis would be amongst the first to help them build an actual infrastructure and economy - since that really would bring peace. As long as the US and Europe and China need oil, the Arabs will use the Palestinians as a political pawn. The present status quo insures that there will never be a peace.

328 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, May 25, 2011 6:41:31pm

re: #325 ozbloke

See my 327

329 jamesfirecat  Wed, May 25, 2011 6:44:16pm

re: #327 LudwigVanQuixote

Agreed.

Israel has neither the manpower or the economy to do such a thing.

No. For the above reasons.

Again no.

There are many different options. The nicest is:

Remove the fundamental issue.

Consider this. These are the only people in the world to start multiple wars, continually wage attack after attack, and as the loser make demands on the victor.

The Palestinians who already receive more aid per capita, could frankly be forced to fend for themselves. Their Arab brethren will not directly help them, not have they ever. Very quickly the Palestinians would have to worry about building an infrastructure and not letting what economy they do have go to their pseudo military organizations and into the palaces of their corrupt elites.

Ironically, the Israelis would be amongst the first to help them build an actual infrastructure and economy - since that really would bring peace. As long as the US and Europe and China need oil, the Arabs will use the Palestinians as a political pawn. The present status quo insures that there will never be a peace.

You’re a little vague on your path to peace in this post LVQ.

Do you see the path to peace being that if the US and other nations withdrew aid from Palestine that it would become so poor that it would be forced to behave?

If so then please confirm my guess and if not than please correct me and explain to me what you see to be the correct path to take in order to make Palenstine into a functioning nation….

330 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, May 25, 2011 6:51:01pm

re: #329 jamesfirecat

You’re a little vague on your path to peace in this post LVQ.

Do you see the path to peace being that if the US and other nations withdrew aid from Palestine that it would become so poor that it would be forced to behave?

Yes. They can only continue as they have because they are so artifically propped up. If the aid came with real strings, things would change for certain.

If so then please confirm my guess

You don’t need to guess. Everyone else that started a genocidal war and lost paid for it.

and if not than please correct me and explain to me what you see to be the correct path to take in order to make Palenstine into a functioning nation…

No that really is it. If you remove the aid, the Palestinians will quickly want a new government that will bring the aid back. The Arab league knows this and that is why there is UNRWA. The Palestinians were always a pawn kept just hungry and angry enough to subsist. Forcing them to sink or swim would remove the corruption and force behavior right away.

Also let’s be clear, they do a lot more than “misbehave.”

All of those rockets, terrorist attacks, kidnappings and mutilations of families in their homes are acts of war.

What I am proposing is the nice option.

The not nice option is to remind the world that Gaza was claimed by Egypt and the West bank of Jordan used to be Jordan and that yes there was a two state solution already (actually three) set up with the formation of modern Egypt and Jordan and push the Palestinians into their own actual countries by military force.

331 Usually refered to as anyways  Wed, May 25, 2011 6:51:17pm

re: #328 LudwigVanQuixote

See my 327

Then let me respectfully ask you this, if more than words are required, why stop the entire negotiations because they weren’t said?

332 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, May 25, 2011 6:54:29pm

re: #331 ozbloke

Then let me respectfully ask you this, if more than words are required, why stop the entire negotiations because they weren’t said?

For a legitimatized Palestinian government to say such a thing and survive long enough to conclude actual negotiations, from the hands of the “peace loving” Palestinian people would be a major sign of change. It is a very powerful litmus test as to how much the Palestinian people themselves are serious about peace.

333 Usually refered to as anyways  Wed, May 25, 2011 6:58:04pm

re: #332 LudwigVanQuixote

For a legitimatized Palestinian government to say such a thing and survive long enough to conclude actual negotiations, from the hands of the “peace loving” Palestinian people would be a major sign of change. It is a very powerful litmus test as to how much the Palestinian people themselves are serious about peace.

Thats if you believe the words.
What if they say the words and the rockets continue, they may say its payback for a specific issue just like always.

334 jamesfirecat  Wed, May 25, 2011 6:59:17pm

re: #330 LudwigVanQuixote

Yes. They can only continue as they have because they are so artifically propped up. If the aid came with real strings, things would change for certain.

You don’t need to guess. Everyone else that started a genocidal war and lost paid for it.

No that really is it. If you remove the aid, the Palestinians will quickly want a new government that will bring the aid back. The Arab league knows this and that is why there is UNRWA. The Palestinians were always a pawn kept just hungry and angry enough to subsist. Forcing them to sink or swim would remove the corruption and force behavior right away.

Also let’s be clear, they do a lot more than “misbehave.”

All of those rockets, terrorist attacks, kidnappings and mutilations of families in their homes are acts of war.

What I am proposing is the nice option.

The not nice option is to remind the world that Gaza was claimed by Egypt and the West bank of Jordan used to be Jordan and that yes there was a two state solution already (actually three) set up with the formation of modern Egypt and Jordan and push the Palestinians into their own actual countries by military force.

I am going to go out on a limb at this point and say that I think you’re wrong here LVQ.

If the current governments attacks on Israel cost Palestine their aid… I honestly see this fact would be used as yet another rallying cry against Israel rather than a lever to allow moderates to come to power. Much like how the end of the first world war only ended up creating still more resentment among Germans towards France, (among other targets) I think that your “nice” strategy of trying to use financial pressure on Palestine would decrease the amount of material resources they have to work with, but in the end only create more anger and thus give them more physical resources to work with.

So while yes I am a catnip smoking room above the basement living liberal… I think LVQ that at this point a “nastier” solution is called for (invasion, occupation, and reconstruction like we did to Japan) would be a plan with far greater chances of success (and if you can see the possible logic behind that I’ll go into crafting a theory about they might find the forces to do such a thing in my next post…)

335 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, May 25, 2011 6:59:26pm

re: #333 ozbloke

Thats if you believe the words.
What if they say the words and the rockets continue, they may say its payback for a specific issue just like always.

Then the words are meaningless. One would assume that you should not negotiate with people who are openly attacking you either.

336 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, May 25, 2011 7:00:44pm

Ed Schultz is just the worst radio, and his tv show is a bad echo of a Bill O”Reilly fart, it’s not even fun to make fun of, it’s just embarrassing fat-bastard bullshit

Which tells you something about the easy way to succeed in radio and TV, be an idiot, and act like an idiot, every single day

337 sagehen  Wed, May 25, 2011 7:02:08pm

The opening of the Ed Show on MSNBC right now:

Ed’s apologizing, he’s suspended without pay, and someone else will be anchoring the show.

338 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, May 25, 2011 7:02:46pm

re: #296 goddamnedfrank

man, don’t even bother, what’s the point

339 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, May 25, 2011 7:03:13pm

re: #334 jamesfirecat

Actually, since I know that the status quo will continue, I am all for the not nice option.

I spent many years hopeful of a negotiated settlement.

I am now convinced this will never be possible. There is too much oil leverage and too much outside meddling. The only thing to do, I believe is clear the pieces from the board and let Jordan and Egypt deal with the people they claimed but then repudiated. I have seen enough attacks on people I love that I have gone full on hawk.

340 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, May 25, 2011 7:04:09pm

re: #338 WindUpBird

Now you actually are an Israel hater. I suggest you stay out of this conversation, lest you find your wings clipped a little.

341 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, May 25, 2011 7:06:31pm

re: #340 LudwigVanQuixote

Thanks for reminding me why I stopped posting here much anymore, and why I’ve elected to spend my time in a more constructive manner, like you know, making things for people

enjoy your internet argument, poof, gone

342 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, May 25, 2011 7:07:51pm

re: #341 WindUpBird

Don’t let the door bend your tail feathers on the way out kiddo.

343 Usually refered to as anyways  Wed, May 25, 2011 7:08:21pm

re: #335 LudwigVanQuixote

Then the words are meaningless. One would assume that you should not negotiate with people who are openly attacking you either.

Then we should agree, saying the words won’t change anything.
So why stop negotiations over it.
There are many fronts on this, these should be worked on, for the sake of Israel and Palestine.

344 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, May 25, 2011 7:09:54pm

re: #343 ozbloke

Then we should agree, saying the words won’t change anything.
So why stop negotiations over it.
There are many fronts on this, these should be worked on, for the sake of Israel and Palestine.

NO imagine that the Palestinian government showed it was serious about peace and could actually govern by stopping the attacks… The the words would mean quite a lot.

Otherwise, you are simply demanding ever more from Israel with nothing at all coming in return except a weakened position in a prolonged war.

345 jamesfirecat  Wed, May 25, 2011 7:10:56pm

re: #339 LudwigVanQuixote

Actually, since I know that the status quo will continue, I am all for the not nice option.

I spent many years hopeful of a negotiated settlement.

I am now convinced this will never be possible. There is too much oil leverage and too much outside meddling. The only thing to do, I believe is clear the pieces from the board and let Jordan and Egypt deal with the people they claimed but then repudiated. I have seen enough attacks on people I love that I have gone full on hawk.

Well then allow me to continue.

At this point then honestly from my ignorant position I fail to see why Israel should be opposed to the idea of Palestine getting a state even if they temporarily gain less than advantageous borders (and I’m using that (the borders which don’t favor Israel as a nation) purely as a hypothetical.

Because if such a thing happened, then one of two things would have to happen, either Palestine would get its act together, in which case, we’ve accomplished what we’ve set out to achieve.

If it does not (as honestly is probably more likely by a quite noticeable margin) then they will do so as one nation attacking another. This in turn should provide America with the fig leaf they need in order to come to Israel’s aid and co-occupy/rebuild Palestine with them.

I’m no fan of wars, but honestly to me at the moment this hypothetical plan seems to be the one that is most likely to create a functioning nation out of a Palestine within our lifetimes or at least the lifetimes of our children.

What are your thoughts LVQ?

346 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, May 25, 2011 7:14:05pm

re: #345 jamesfirecat

Ummm no and no because then endless armaments flow into Palestine from Iran and Saudi Arabia, and the Palis who will have the same corrupt government will attack Israel more directly with advantageous lines in a way that kills more of my people.

347 jamesfirecat  Wed, May 25, 2011 7:18:20pm

re: #346 LudwigVanQuixote

Ummm no and no because then endless armaments flow into Palestine from Iran and Saudi Arabia, and the Palis who will have the same corrupt government will attack Israel more directly with advantageous lines in a way that kills more of my people.

Then clearly we’re at loggerheads with each other, I want a US Israel based occupation of Palestine to completely conquer and then rebuild from the ground up, you want to apply economic pressure to them until it builds to the point that there is an internal revolution leading to a more moderate government.

Do we at least fully understand where/what we disagree with each other over?

348 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, May 25, 2011 7:19:08pm

re: #347 jamesfirecat

Then clearly we’re at loggerheads with each other, I want a US Israel based occupation of Palestine to completely conquer and then rebuild from the ground up, you want to apply economic pressure to them until it builds to the point that there is an internal revolution leading to a more moderate government.

Do we at least fully understand where/what we disagree with each other over?

Yes, my way kills fewer people.

349 DeepBlue  Wed, May 25, 2011 7:22:45pm

re: #343 ozbloke

Negotiations even between enemies happens all the time & is often good for each of them as well as for those not directly involved.

350 Achilles Tang  Wed, May 25, 2011 7:24:04pm

re: #300 Obdicut

Draw the connection between her being a slut and being a Limbaugh-esque attack dog, please.

Sorry to be late. She showed utter disrespect not for this presidents policies, but for the presidency of the USA.

I don’t defend Ed’s lack of decorum and if I were on national TV I wouldn’t use that word, but here I will relish the luxury of calling that woman a slut.

351 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, May 25, 2011 7:24:50pm

re: #350 Naso Tang

Sorry to be late. She showed utter disrespect not for this presidents policies, but for the presidency of the USA.

I don’t defend Ed’s lack of decorum and if I were on national TV I wouldn’t use that word, but here I will relish the luxury of calling that woman a slut.

Ohh be careful about that Naso… That word is forbidden.

352 Achilles Tang  Wed, May 25, 2011 7:26:46pm

re: #351 LudwigVanQuixote

Ohh be careful about that Naso… That word is forbidden.

It is? We can say the F words, but not S words?

353 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, May 25, 2011 7:27:27pm

re: #352 Naso Tang

It is? We can say the F words, but not S words?

Are you shitting me about this of all people?

354 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, May 25, 2011 7:29:07pm

Shakes head… Needs to walk dogs… See you all later.

355 jamesfirecat  Wed, May 25, 2011 7:29:23pm

re: #348 LudwigVanQuixote

Yes, my way kills fewer people.

And I feel that my way is more likely to succeed in the long term though the recent “Arab Spring” shows that there is hope for your ideas yet.

I hope that this at least gives you a greater understanding of why I favor negotiations with Palestine, even knowing that they (in fact to a certain degree my plan relies on the fact that they will) negotiate in bad faith… so that we can hasten the creation of an actual Palestinian state, so that hopefully it can properly be have a war declared against it, be invaded and reconstructed into a functioning nation.

356 Achilles Tang  Wed, May 25, 2011 7:31:37pm

re: #353 LudwigVanQuixote

Are you shitting me about this of all people?

Funny.

357 Usually refered to as anyways  Wed, May 25, 2011 7:36:31pm

re: #344 LudwigVanQuixote

NO imagine that the Palestinian government showed it was serious about peace and could actually govern by stopping the attacks… The the words would mean quite a lot.

Otherwise, you are simply demanding ever more from Israel with nothing at all coming in return except a weakened position in a prolonged war.

Do you think the government of Palestine can stop the violence?
I struggle with that, the Afghan Govt and the UN can’t stop the violence in Afghanistan, the US and its allies could not stop it is Iraq.

Chasing the wind.

358 funky chicken  Wed, May 25, 2011 8:05:43pm

re: #299 Naso Tang

you listen to her? shudder

359 sliv_the_eli  Wed, May 25, 2011 8:26:47pm

re: #331 ozbloke

Then let me respectfully ask you this, if more than words are required, why stop the entire negotiations because they weren’t said?

Oz: You are missing one very important fact here. It was not the Israelis who stopped negotiations. It was and is the Palestinians who have refused, for virtually all of the past two years, to sit at the negotiating table. The Palestinians have refused to do so despite repeated entreaties by Prime Minister Netanyahu that they do so. Prime Minister Netanyahu has not made Palestinian acknowledgement of Israel’s right to exist as a Jewish state a precondition to negotiations. To the contrary, it is the Palestinians’ leaadership that continually insists on preconditions to negotiations so that they have an excuse to avoid making any compromises.

See my page from earlier today for a discussion of why that is the case: [[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

360 sliv_the_eli  Wed, May 25, 2011 8:35:53pm

re: #333 ozbloke

Thats if you believe the words.
What if they say the words and the rockets continue, they may say its payback for a specific issue just like always.

And there is the problem. History has shown that the result of Israeli compromise is terrorism and violence directed at the Israelis. The Israelis have heard it all before: Make concessions and a moderate Palestinian leadership will come to the fore and be willing to make peace. Show good faith by withdrawing from the Gaza Strip and the world will back you if the Palestinians attack. Israelis have paid with blood for having put their faith in mere words and the “good will” of the international community. They have, rightly (no pun intended), decided that mere words will no longer suffice.

361 Usually refered to as anyways  Wed, May 25, 2011 8:49:16pm

re: #359 sliv_the_eli

Oz: You are missing one very important fact here. It was not the Israelis who stopped negotiations. It was and is the Palestinians who have refused, for virtually all of the past two years, to sit at the negotiating table. The Palestinians have refused to do so despite repeated entreaties by Prime Minister Netanyahu that they do so. Prime Minister Netanyahu has not made Palestinian acknowledgement of Israel’s right to exist as a Jewish state a precondition to negotiations. To the contrary, it is the Palestinians’ leaadership that continually insists on preconditions to negotiations so that they have an excuse to avoid making any compromises.

See my page from earlier today for a discussion of why that is the case: [[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

Sliv,

I am really not forgetting anything, you are not telling me anything I don’t know or don’t agree with.

It has been said up thread, that Israel should not negotiate with Palestine until Palestine recognizes Israels right to exist, I am responding to that.

362 Claire  Wed, May 25, 2011 8:54:33pm

re: #360 sliv_the_eli

Yes, and the Pali’s (is that a slur?) have sat at the negotiating table, have made pacts and promises and then chronically do not honor them. Agreements are signed and then 14,000 rockets rain down for petty tit-for-tat excuses.

It’s interesting that James statement to form a Palestinian state so when it attacks it can be attacked back Mano a’ Mano, in actual war instead of this pathetic coddled parasite state that it is, is a theme that LGF pushed for many years. It is the correct view, IMO. Give them a state, and see what they do with it. My bet is they will fuck it up.

363 sliv_the_eli  Wed, May 25, 2011 8:58:57pm

re: #345 jamesfirecat

Well then allow me to continue.

At this point then honestly from my ignorant position I fail to see why Israel should be opposed to the idea of Palestine getting a state even if they temporarily gain less than advantageous borders (and I’m using that (the borders which don’t favor Israel as a nation) purely as a hypothetical.

Because if such a thing happened, then one of two things would have to happen, either Palestine would get its act together, in which case, we’ve accomplished what we’ve set out to achieve.

If it does not (as honestly is probably more likely by a quite noticeable margin) then they will do so as one nation attacking another. This in turn should provide America with the fig leaf they need in order to come to Israel’s aid and co-occupy/rebuild Palestine with them.

I’m no fan of wars, but honestly to me at the moment this hypothetical plan seems to be the one that is most likely to create a functioning nation out of a Palestine within our lifetimes or at least the lifetimes of our children.

What are your thoughts LVQ?

Israel has been there and done that. Think the unilateral withdrawal from Lebanon in 2000 and from the Gaza Strip in 2005. The latter, in what was a painful preview of what might occur in the West Bank in the event of an actual peace accord, involved removing and relocating thousands of Jewish residents from their homes.
What was the result? Did the world community support Isreal when Hizb’allah in the north and Hamas in the south began to fire missiles at Isareli civilian targets? Has the world acknowledged that Israel has shown its willingness to take painful steps and make painful compromises in the hopes of achieving peace with her Palestinian neighbors?
Need I actually ask these questions? Not only has Israel received no credit for what it has shown the world it is prepared to do, it has only invited further demands for unilateral concessions with no reciprocation whatsoever.

364 sliv_the_eli  Wed, May 25, 2011 9:08:05pm

re: #347 jamesfirecat

Then clearly we’re at loggerheads with each other, I want a US Israel based occupation of Palestine to completely conquer and then rebuild from the ground up, you want to apply economic pressure to them until it builds to the point that there is an internal revolution leading to a more moderate government.

Do we at least fully understand where/what we disagree with each other over?

IMHO neither of the extremes that LVQ and you suggest are feasible. In LVQ’s case, because the world community’s fear of petro-dollar retaliation (to say nothing of terorism) would not allow it. In your case, because neither Israel nor the U.S. has any interest in the political, military or financial cost of fully re-occupying the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
What is needed in my view is a combination of military and financial pressure to force the Palestinians to begin doing what they were supposed to have been doing in the nearly two decades since the Oslo Accords were signed. That is, to begin educating the popluation, and especially the young, toward acceptance of the other’s rights. To speak truthfully about Jews’ historical connection with the land. To stop preaching hatred and the vilest anti-Semitic tripe in schools, mosques and in the media. To stop glorifying murderers such as Dalal Mughrabi. And then, to be patient. And to wait until a generation educated toward peaceful coexistence grows up and takes responsibility for its future. And hope that that actually happens. As Isrealis have done for the past 63 years.

365 sliv_the_eli  Wed, May 25, 2011 9:15:45pm

re: #361 ozbloke

Sliv,

I am really not forgetting anything, you are not telling me anything I don’t know or don’t agree with.

It has been said up thread, that Israel should not negotiate with Palestine until Palestine recognizes Israels right to exist, I am responding to that.

My apologies, then. I got on the thread late and did not read all the way back.
Incidentally, I have no problem with Israel negotiating with the Palestinians without the Palestinians first recognizing Israel’s right to exist. It is Isarel making actual concessions in the absence of such recognition with which I would disagree. In any event, however, the point is moot, because the Paestinians think that the UN is going to declare a state of Palestine and force Israel to give the Palestinians everything they want with nothing in return. Until the Palestinians are disabused of that notion, the chances of peace will only continue to move further away.

366 Jimmah  Thu, May 26, 2011 2:40:06am

re: #341 WindUpBird

Thanks for reminding me why I stopped posting here much anymore, and why I’ve elected to spend my time in a more constructive manner, like you know, making things for people

enjoy your internet argument, poof, gone

Like you and many others, I’m getting increasingly sick of Ludwig’s non-stop attention theatre, and as I indicated to him during his last meltdown, I’m not engaging him any further. As this thread has (once again) shown, he’s a loser who can’t concede a point on anything, ever, no matter how many times or how thoroughly he has his ass handed to him.

And so he is now reduced to calling posters who disagree with his extremist statements on Israel/Palestine (statements that would not be out of place on Atlas Shrugs) names. He calls me an anti-semite, yet he is unable to quote any of my ‘anti-semitic’ posts - because of course, there aren’t any. He’s just making shit up. As you indicated to goddamnfrank earlier, there’s just no point engaging him.

And remember:

You’re not a real Jew unless you’re a wingnut Jew. And if you don’t support wingnut Jews (while heaping condemnation on liberal Jews), you’re an anti-semite.

367 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, May 26, 2011 2:43:38am

re: #350 Naso Tang

Sorry to be late. She showed utter disrespect not for this presidents policies, but for the presidency of the USA.

And that equates to ‘slut’ how?

368 suchislife  Thu, May 26, 2011 3:34:04am

re: #342 LudwigVanQuixote

To explain my downding: I feel that the way you keep bringing up wup’s screen name and by extension stuff about his private life he shared with us in obvious attempts to denigrate him says a lot about your true feelings on life style choices other than your own.

369 Achilles Tang  Thu, May 26, 2011 5:34:29am

re: #367 Obdicut

And that equates to ‘slut’ how?

You have your bone again I see. It equates to slut, because according to my understanding of the word she has no principles of value.

370 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, May 26, 2011 5:35:46am

re: #369 Naso Tang

You have your bone again I see. It equates to slut, because according to my understanding of the word she has no principles of value.

But that isn’t what the word ‘slut’ means.

371 Achilles Tang  Thu, May 26, 2011 5:47:01am

re: #370 Obdicut

But that isn’t what the word ‘slut’ means.

Like most words it has a range of specific meanings. The lack of morals typically refers to something to do with sex, but it can mean unpleasantness, dirtiness and other lack of morality as well. But you know this.

In any case when an insult is warranted this one serves quite well as symbolic of one who sells out decency for money.

How about if I called her a Harpy. In my mind that is every bit as much a female insult?

372 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, May 26, 2011 5:49:25am

re: #371 Naso Tang

Like most words it has a range of specific meanings. The lack of morals typically refers to something to do with sex, but it can mean unpleasantness, dirtiness and other lack of morality as well. But you know this.

No, I really don’t. Mainly, because it’s not true. In England, it has that meaning. In the US, it implies sexuality. If it’s modified with something else, it might not— which wasn’t the case here— but it still has a callback to the sexual meaning.

How about if I called her a Harpy. In my mind that is every bit as much a female insult?

It’s not it about it being a ‘female insult’. I have no idea why you think it is.

373 Decatur Deb  Thu, May 26, 2011 5:51:19am

Americans have dust bunnies under their beds. (Some) British have “slut wool”.

374 Achilles Tang  Thu, May 26, 2011 5:54:07am

re: #372 Obdicut

You have a narrow understanding of English then, particularly since you can’t discern obvious nuances in words.

A harpy is indeed female, and an insult. Why don’t you ask Charles why he sometimes uses it.

375 Achilles Tang  Thu, May 26, 2011 5:56:59am

Come on O, are you reduced to dings now?

376 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, May 26, 2011 5:57:03am

re: #374 Naso Tang

You have a narrow understanding of English then, particularly since you can’t discern obvious nuances in words.

I’m sorry, what obvious nuance is there in saying “She is a slut.”?

A harpy is indeed female, and an insult. Why don’t you ask Charles why he sometimes uses it.

Yes, I know it is. My point is that the problem with ‘slut’ isn’t that it’s a ‘female insult’.

377 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, May 26, 2011 5:57:48am

re: #375 Naso Tang

Come on O, are you reduced to dings now?

Whining about downdings = more downdings.

378 Achilles Tang  Thu, May 26, 2011 6:00:49am

re: #376 Obdicut

I’m sorry, what obvious nuance is there in saying “She is a slut.”?

Yes, I know it is. My point is that the problem with ‘slut’ isn’t that it’s a ‘female insult’.

Why don’t you just stick to your dings? They are more telling than your comprehension repetitions and pedantic word analyses.

And now I have to head out. Have a nice day.

379 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, May 26, 2011 6:03:19am

re: #378 Naso Tang

Heh. Complain that I’m ‘resorted’ to dings. Then complain when I’m actually making an argument.

Why is it that about a quarter of the time, you just flail around in any argument? The rest of the time you’re fine. Then you start trying to claim “She is a slut” is a nuanced sentence.

380 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, May 26, 2011 8:09:18am

re: #368 suchislife

Really? You think that? I suppose this is how the group think I think I have written several hundred posts supporting gay rights. Go check that.

In the case of WUB, He really does enjoy being an Israel hater and he has been very clear about this in numerous posts. He craves that attention and loves the idea that he is the “brave one” who bashes Israel in what he sees as a right wing blog. It is a little web ego trip for him. Parallel to that, he also craves attention for his personal fetishes.

The former annoys me and the latter amuses me. Neither thing makes him special though.

381 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, May 26, 2011 8:10:20am

PIMF

Really? You think that? I suppose this is how the group think works for certain sub groups here.

I think I have written several hundred posts supporting gay rights. Go check that.

In the case of WUB, He really does enjoy being an Israel hater and he has been very clear about this in numerous posts. He craves that attention and loves the idea that he is the “brave one” who bashes Israel in what he sees as a right wing blog. It is a little web ego trip for him. Parallel to that, he also craves attention for his personal fetishes.

The former annoys me and the latter amuses me. Neither thing makes him special though.

382 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, May 26, 2011 8:24:25am

re: #366 Jimmah

Like you and many others, I’m getting increasingly sick of Ludwig’s non-stop attention theatre, and as I indicated to him during his last meltdown, I’m not engaging him any further.

Except you have been engaging me so that would be a lie. Further, I like the reference to many others. Do you require back up to debate Jimmah? Is this a playground popularity contest?

As this thread has (once again) shown, he’s a loser who can’t concede a point on anything, ever, no matter how many times or how thoroughly he has his ass handed to him.

Excuse me? The point made was that Many Jewish people would like a statement of no talks without recognition.

This is absolutely true.

No one has managed to sweep that reality away and just declaring that you “won” without even addressing it, is pretty weak Jimmah. In fact its insulting and stupid and you rather show that you have nothing.

And so he is now reduced to calling posters who disagree with his extremist statements on Israel/Palestine (statements that would not be out of place on Atlas Shrugs) names.

No talks without recognition of a right to exist would be extreme for Atlas Shrugs? Really…. The fact that you consider such a view extreme at all is rather proof that you hate Israel, or at the very least wouldn’t mind seeing more dead Israelis. You actually know enough history, and I expect enough brain power from you that you don’t get a pass.

He calls me an anti-semite, yet he is unable to quote any of my ‘anti-semitic’ posts - because of course, there aren’t any.

No I called you an Israel hater. It is something that has been forming in my mind for some time and I said it after reading many of your posts.

For example: Forcing Israel into negotiations with a group that refuses to acknowledge Israel’s right to exist puts Israel in a very weakened position in the middle of a long war.

He’s just making shit up. As you indicated to goddamnfrank earlier, there’s just no point engaging him.

But here you are engaging and you are doing it by making shit up yourself, and whining for backup no less, and failing to address the point that as directed at you in many posts.

Again, why should Israel be forced into negotiations when its “partner” does not even recognize its right to exist? Just calling that right wing does not make it right wing and just having a play-ground snit does not make you correct.

And remember:…


Yes how cute with your fonts. So again, seeing more dead Israelis - which is the result of pushing these failed, sham negotiations, and weakening their country is OK with you.

Hence it follows you don’t care for Israel much and the label fits.

So if you want to talk about that rationally without the name calling and whining and frankly un manly straw men - pathetic Jimmah, just pathetic, I will happily destroy any “debate” you can bring by using the magic ability to stay on point, use logic, and use correct facts. OF course that might be why you resorted to acting like a kid on a playground.

Pathetic Jimmah. Pathetic.

383 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, May 26, 2011 8:26:56am

Pope’s pedophile-scandal advisor arrested for… (drum roll)

384 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, May 26, 2011 8:50:14am

re: #383 negativ

You should page that.

385 SidewaysQuark  Thu, May 26, 2011 8:57:17am

The way I look at the Isreal/Palestine problem:

The Israelis aren’t going to get any peace until they stop building and expanding new “settlements”. Period. Just stop, no conditions.

The Palestinians aren’t going to get any peace until they stop launching rockets and sending out suicide bombers. Period. Just stop, no conditions.

Until this happens, I can’t see any meaningful negotiations taking place.

386 Claire  Thu, May 26, 2011 9:09:30am

re: #385 SidewaysQuark

Except that the Israeli’s will stop building and the rockets won’t stop. There will always be another excuse to attack. Every single concession over the years that the Israeli’s have yielded specifically in order to stop the attacks has not stopped the attacks. You think they are down to the last concession with the settlements. They aren’t. There will just be another one. And another one. And another one.

387 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, May 26, 2011 9:10:48am

re: #385 SidewaysQuark

But Israel gave up Gaza, giving up shitloads of settlements— and infrastructure, and businesses— in the process.

That didn’t gain them any peace at all.

So why would stopping building settlements now gain them anything?

I think they should stop building some of the settlments as well— mostly the ones already declared illegal by the Israeli government. But I don’t think that doing so would actually cause the Palestinian negotiators to be any more reasonable.

Whereas, if Palestinians actually stopped the attacks on Israel, they would definitely see an improvement on their treatment by Israel.

388 Charles Johnson  Thu, May 26, 2011 9:58:46am

Man. This is really starting to get old.

389 Jimmah  Thu, May 26, 2011 11:34:04am

re: #382 ludwigvanquixote

No, Ludwig I have not addressed you even once since your last meltdown. Any sane person should be able to see quite easily from looking at this thread that you are having a whole imaginary conversation with me. What’s really sad about this is that you appear to have no idea how unhinged your posts look.

As for your claim that I am an “Israel hater”, it’s clear you have nothing to back that up with, except a strawman argument that didn’t take place and a vague allusion to other stuff that is also going on in your head. (And no doubt the fact that I don’t see the path to peace as being via all out war marks me as a vile Israel hater in your warped brain too.)

And yes, your outrageous outrage over Obama’s failure to use your exact verbal formulation despite clearly advocating that the Palestinians need to recognise Israel’s right to exist is indeed worthy of Atlas Shrugs. And your insistence that peace in the middle east can only be achieved through ‘total war’ - that you have repeatedly voiced recently - is an extremist one that you’ll find being championed on just about any wingnut site.

I will still downding you for posting this sort of garbage, but you’re not worth replying to. This is the last hysterical rant of yours that I’ll be responding to.

390 suchislife  Thu, May 26, 2011 12:12:38pm

re: #380 ludwigvanquixote

I don’t speak for any group.

391 Achilles Tang  Thu, May 26, 2011 12:53:31pm

re: #379 Obdicut

Heh. Complain that I’m ‘resorted’ to dings. Then complain when I’m actually making an argument.

Why is it that about a quarter of the time, you just flail around in any argument? The rest of the time you’re fine. Then you start trying to claim “She is a slut” is a nuanced sentence.

*sigh*

I don’t care how many dings you give, I simply say it reflects on you if you think that is any form of argument.

I’m glad you only think I flail a quarter of the time. Very kind of you :)

Truth is, you think you define words your way. I thought Ingraham insulted this country, me included, and I have no problem with calling her a word that in my intended meaning is someone without moral standing. You want to suggest it meant she screwed her way to where she is, and that may be true, but I don’t know it for a fact.

I could indeed have called her something else, but why this word raises such hackles I’m not sure.

For example, you called her a “Limbaugh attack dog”. That not nice either, but even though it is grammatically not correct I understood your meaning and moved on.

What would you have said if I had corrected your English and said that the correct term would be “Limbaugh attack bitch”?

Hope you had a nice day.

392 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, May 26, 2011 1:14:10pm

re: #391 Naso Tang

I don’t care how many dings you give, I simply say it reflects on you if you think that is any form of argument.

I don’t think it’s a form of argument.


I’m glad you only think I flail a quarter of the time. Very kind of you :)

It’s not a scientific survey or anything.

Truth is, you think you define words your way.

No, words really do have meanings. The word ‘slut’ really does have the meaning that the person is sexually ‘loose’. Even when it’s used in analogy, it contains that meaning— open to all comers, so to speak. It doesn’t just mean having no moral standing; given that she’s only a right-winger, and only carries water for the right-wing, a charge of being a political slut or what have you isn’t even accurate.


I could indeed have called her something else, but why this word raises such hackles I’m not sure.

It’s been explained, at length. The words actual meaning— from which other derivative meanings come— is a woman who’s sexuality is disapproved of by whoever’s calling her the slut. It has no good definition.

For example, you called her a “Limbaugh attack dog”. That not nice either, but even though it is grammatically not correct I understood your meaning and moved on.

No, dog actually does include female dogs as well. It’s not a gender-specific reference. And if you think this is about grammar, i have no idea what you’re doing.

What would you have said if I had corrected your English and said that the correct term would be “Limbaugh attack bitch”?

Well, you’d be wrong. And that’s actually a good example— I’d use the word dog, and not bitch, precisely because bitch is so often used against women for no actual good reason. Since ‘attack dog’ is the common phrase, using ‘attack bitch’ would be throwing in a misogynistic insult for no good reason.

393 Charles Johnson  Thu, May 26, 2011 1:19:05pm

I notice that the only ones who can’t or won’t acknowledge the inherent sexist nature of using ‘slut’ to describe a woman are men.

394 wrenchwench  Thu, May 26, 2011 1:54:00pm

re: #393 Charles

I notice that the only ones who can’t or won’t acknowledge the inherent sexist nature of using ‘slut’ to describe a woman are men.

With the possible exception of Summer in the Apology thread. I’m still parsing her delightfully nuanced comment on the subject. She obviously has a better grasp on the topic than the male deniers above.

395 Achilles Tang  Thu, May 26, 2011 3:04:18pm

Oh dear, all these smart people with so little to say. Please get off your PC horses and have a debate, whether it be about language, nuances or manners, but stop your childish dinging as if it means anything of significance to anyone but yourselves.

396 Achilles Tang  Thu, May 26, 2011 3:10:33pm

re: #393 Charles

I notice that the only ones who can’t or won’t acknowledge the inherent sexist nature of using ‘slut’ to describe a woman are men.

I think women will use the term when appropriate also. I would apply a correspondingly sexist term to a man I hold in contempt, when appropriate.

Sorry for any offense made here, but the truth is that Ingraham is an insult to this country. I don’t see why some people think that comments to that effect apply to women in general, and I have already expressed my opinion about Ed’s lack of decorum on the national stage.

Why this is such an issue here is still unexplained by the dingers.

397 jamesfirecat  Thu, May 26, 2011 3:36:16pm

re: #396 Naso Tang

I think women will use the term when appropriate also. I would apply a correspondingly sexist term to a man I hold in contempt, when appropriate.

Sorry for any offense made here, but the truth is that Ingraham is an insult to this country. I don’t see why some people think that comments to that effect apply to women in general, and I have already expressed my opinion about Ed’s lack of decorum on the national stage.

Why this is such an issue here is still unexplained by the dingers.

Calling someone a slut instantly makes you look more interested in trying to defame their character than explain why you have an issue with them, regardless of what you follow it up with.

It is especially demeaning given that it links women who do to lack of money have been forced to sell themselves for the money to survive to propaganda peddlers like Ingraham.

Even if one might find themselves in a situation where they might be accurate use of sexually charged words like “slut” “bitch” and “whore” just makes you look like an asshole and gives people reasons not to take your argument seriously.

That is why we down ding, because it shows poor form to rely on such shocking words rather than a well crafted argument to shellac one’s political opponents.

398 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, May 26, 2011 3:37:41pm

re: #395 Naso Tang

Again: Whining about downdings = more downdings.
re: #396 Naso Tang

Why this is such an issue here is still unexplained by the dingers.

Nope. It’s been explained at length. You haven’t engaged with the explanation in the least.

399 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, May 26, 2011 4:23:49pm

re: #389 Jimmah

No, Ludwig I have not addressed you even once since your last meltdown. Any sane person should be able to see quite easily from looking at this thread that you are having a whole imaginary conversation with me. What’s really sad about this is that you appear to have no idea how unhinged your posts look.

As for your claim that I am an “Israel hater”, it’s clear you have nothing to back that up with, except a strawman argument that didn’t take place and a vague allusion to other stuff that is also going on in your head. (And no doubt the fact that I don’t see the path to peace as being via all out war marks me as a vile Israel hater in your warped brain too.)

And yes, your outrageous outrage over Obama’s failure to use your exact verbal formulation despite clearly advocating that the Palestinians need to recognise Israel’s right to exist is indeed worthy of Atlas Shrugs. And your insistence that peace in the middle east can only be achieved through ‘total war’ - that you have repeatedly voiced recently - is an extremist one that you’ll find being championed on just about any wingnut site.

I will still downding you for posting this sort of garbage, but you’re not worth replying to. This is the last hysterical rant of yours that I’ll be responding to.

As Charles remarked this is getting old Jimmah.

For someone who is not responding to me, you seem to be responding a fair amount. And in all of these responses, you have yet to specifically address the main point that others were quite capable of actually discussing.

So for the record Jimmah,

You feel that acknowledgement of a right to exist - which implies that someone can then live in peace and so forth is an outrageous demand, and an outrageous outrage that is worthy of Atlas Shrugs.

Most sane people would consider a first step to making peace is an acknowledgement of the other party to live in peace.

The fact that you do not consider that relevant, and in fact call it names makes you an Israel hater. How could it not be relevant? How could it not be an issue?

It also marks your debating skills as non-existent. Simply calling something names, appealing to popularity and whining do not a cogent argument make.

Anyway, do go on not responding to me.

As Charles has said, this is getting old, and you sir are the one who is digging.

The evidence is quite clear to anyone with two functioning brain cells.

400 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, May 26, 2011 4:25:13pm

re: #393 Charles

I notice that the only ones who can’t or won’t acknowledge the inherent sexist nature of using ‘slut’ to describe a woman are men.

To be fair, I do not use the language anymore.

It causes way too much upset and completely de-rails the point.

401 wrenchwench  Thu, May 26, 2011 4:27:35pm

re: #400 LudwigVanQuixote

To be fair, I do not use the language anymore.

It causes way too much upset and completely de-rails the point.

When did that finally dawn on you?

Would you still upding the language?

402 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, May 26, 2011 4:34:26pm

re: #401 wrenchwench

I am curious wrench, I generally don’t pick on you or give you any particular grief. Is there some reason you have appointed yourself my own personal pain in the bottom?

It is absolutely true that I find the hysteria over the word overwrought given the hypocrisy of the women on these very issues pf women’s rights it was applied to.

It is also the case that even months ago I said I would not use it. And that I would happily agree to disagree with those who think it is inherently a slur against all women. I personally think it only applies to specific women.

But who cares about what I think on that? It clearly pisses others off. I’m not interested in unnecessarily offending with my poor choices of words. I would much rather fight real fights about real issues.

403 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, May 26, 2011 4:36:22pm

And one other thing wrench…

Do you honestly think that the Palestinians do not need to acknowledge Israel’s right to exist like Jimmah or are you just trying to piss me off?

In otherwords, are you being a troll or an Israel basher?

404 Interesting Times  Thu, May 26, 2011 4:41:33pm

re: #403 LudwigVanQuixote

In otherwords, are you being a troll or an Israel basher?

No, she most definitely isn’t.

I can explain to you what’s happening, but please go on gmail chat as I’d prefer to keep it off the public board.

405 wrenchwench  Thu, May 26, 2011 5:02:16pm

re: #402 LudwigVanQuixote

I am curious wrench, I generally don’t pick on you or give you any particular grief. Is there some reason you have appointed yourself my own personal pain in the bottom?

I comment where I am interested. Why, out of all the annoying things said here, I find your comments most annoying, I don’t fully know. I find you to be elitist, and that is a characteristic I have little patience for.

It is absolutely true that I find the hysteria over the word overwrought given the hypocrisy of the women on these very issues pf women’s rights it was applied to.

It is also the case that even months ago I said I would not use it. And that I would happily agree to disagree with those who think it is inherently a slur against all women. I personally think it only applies to specific women.

But who cares about what I think on that? It clearly pisses others off. I’m not interested in unnecessarily offending with my poor choices of words. I would much rather fight real fights about real issues.

You defended the use of slut on this thread, then you say, “even months ago I said I would not use it.” Why defend something you would not do yourself?

re: #403 LudwigVanQuixote

And one other thing wrench…

Do you honestly think that the Palestinians do not need to acknowledge Israel’s right to exist like Jimmah or are you just trying to piss me off?

In otherwords, are you being a troll or an Israel basher?


If you want to examine everyone’s position on Israel as you discuss any other topic, perhaps you should do as you keep advising others to do — go read all my comments.

406 wrenchwench  Thu, May 26, 2011 5:02:52pm

re: #404 publicityStunted

No, she most definitely isn’t.

I can explain to you what’s happening, but please go on gmail chat as I’d prefer to keep it off the public board.

If you can explain it to me, Reine has my email address….

407 Interesting Times  Thu, May 26, 2011 5:12:34pm

re: #406 wrenchwench

If you can explain it to me, Reine has my email address…

It’s not about you specifically, but this whole “argument”, for lack of a better term. To put it as generally as possible, it’s people arguing two completely different things on two completely different plains, and never the ‘twain shall meet.

408 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, May 26, 2011 5:16:31pm

re: #405 wrenchwench

So in other words, you are just trolling regardless of whether or not what I say is true. How classy.

409 wrenchwench  Thu, May 26, 2011 5:23:38pm

re: #408 LudwigVanQuixote

So in other words, you are just trolling regardless of whether or not what I say is true. How classy.

That is approximately the opposite of what I said.

410 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, May 26, 2011 5:25:45pm

re: #409 wrenchwench

So if you are patently not an Israel basher the idea of an acknowledgement of Israel’s right to exist is not some far right extreme thing correct?

So if that is not the issue, you are just here to troll.

That’s ok, you find me pretentious, I find you childish.

411 wrenchwench  Thu, May 26, 2011 5:36:14pm

re: #410 LudwigVanQuixote

So if you are patently not an Israel basher the idea of an acknowledgement of Israel’s right to exist is not some far right extreme thing correct?

So if that is not the issue, you are just here to troll.

That’s ok, you find me pretentious, I find you childish.

I find you elitist, not pretentious.

It is not “some far right extreme thing” to say Israel’s right to exist should be acknowledged. What does that have to do with you defending and updinging the use of a word that you say you will not use because it “causes way too much upset and completely de-rails the point”? I was not part of the Israel discussion on this thread. Can you separate the two items? Why do you insist I must be trolling if Israel is not the issue? You are being weird.

412 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, May 26, 2011 5:39:24pm

re: #411 wrenchwench

Umm you just downdinged a post about saying it was not far right and updinged one that did wrench. You are here to troll. So please don’t play games.

I also told Naso to be careful about the use of the word.

413 wrenchwench  Thu, May 26, 2011 5:42:01pm

re: #412 LudwigVanQuixote

Umm you just downdinged a post about saying it was not far right and updinged one that did wrench. You are here to troll. So please don’t play games.

I also told Naso to be careful about the use of the word.

I downdinged a post that called me childish. What did I upding?

414 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, May 26, 2011 5:47:44pm

re: #413 wrenchwench

Umm the ones where Jimmah called the idea of an acknowledgement of Israel’s right to exist Atlas Shrugs material. Please don’t play dumb wrench. I get that you are simply here to troll. But don’t deny it.

415 wrenchwench  Thu, May 26, 2011 5:49:54pm

re: #414 LudwigVanQuixote

Umm the ones where Jimmah called the idea of an acknowledgement of Israel’s right to exist Atlas Shrugs material. Please don’t play dumb wrench. I get that you are simply here to troll. But don’t deny it.

I think I found the comment you referred to, but I did not see my ding on it. Please refer to comment numbers in the future for clarity.

I’ll be back tomorrow.

416 Jimmah  Fri, May 27, 2011 12:32:07am

re: #415 wrenchwench

I think I found the comment you referred to, but I did not see my ding on it. Please refer to comment numbers in the future for clarity.

I’ll be back tomorrow.

I think this must be what Ludwig is referring to :

And yes, your outrageous outrage over Obama’s failure to use your exact verbal formulation despite clearly advocating that the Palestinians need to recognise Israel’s right to exist is indeed worthy of Atlas Shrugs.

Yeah I was talking about Obama’s advocating that the Palestinians need to recognise Israel’s right to exist. Ludwig is distorting, spinning wildly, possibly even hallucinating at this point. What a mess.

417 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, May 27, 2011 1:20:12am

re: #416 Jimmah

I am distorting?

Giggle.

You feel that acknowledgement of a right to exist - which implies that someone can then live in peace and so forth is an outrageous demand, and an outrageous outrage that is worthy of Atlas Shrugs.

You said so yourself. Just scroll up.

It is odd that you are lying about it now Jimmah.

418 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, May 27, 2011 1:29:53am

I mean just look at your 366 Jimmah…

And so he is now reduced to calling posters who disagree with his extremist statements on Israel/Palestine (statements that would not be out of place on Atlas Shrugs) names.

And what was the statement for all to see that was so crazy right?

That acknowledgement should be a condition for peace talks…

As I said before: The point made was that Many Jewish people would like a statement of no talks without recognition.

This is still absolutely true. You have still failed to address the idea. You are still calling it and me names. You are still failing to see the point even though many others have.

So this really has become old.

I’ll let you have the last word after this, since you are very bad at not responding to me.

419 tnguitarist  Fri, May 27, 2011 3:18:48am

Holy shit. No wonder I don’t post as often as I used to.

420 iceweasel  Fri, May 27, 2011 7:01:53am

re: #419 tnguitarist

Holy shit. No wonder I don’t post as often as I used to.

This shit gets old.

421 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, May 27, 2011 7:39:16am

re: #420 iceweasel

It does get old. Stop feeding it.


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