Super-patriot Michele Bachmann tweeted today that she’ll vote to put the United States in danger of defaulting on its debt.
The President wants to raise the debt ceiling. I’ll be a “no” vote when the House votes tonight.
3 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, May 31, 2011 1:34:11pm |
Dear GOP,
My memory is longer than the average election cycle. Just sayin'.
| 4 |
makeitstopghazi Tue, May 31, 2011 1:34:55pm |
It's all fun and games until a global economic catastrophe happens.
And she wants to be president?
| 5 |
freetoken Tue, May 31, 2011 1:35:07pm |
But... but... but... she's doing the will of God!!
| 6 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, May 31, 2011 1:35:24pm |
Really, a vote in the US congress deserves more than 140 characters worth of explanation.
| 7 |
albusteve Tue, May 31, 2011 1:35:24pm |
so nobody knows exactly what the results will be if the ceiling is not raised, or so I keep hearing...in that case it seems prudent to vote on the side of caution since any reason not to is more ideological than practical
| 8 |
Kragar Tue, May 31, 2011 1:36:46pm |
| 9 |
McSpiff Tue, May 31, 2011 1:36:59pm |
re: #7 albusteve
so nobody knows exactly what the results will be if the ceiling is not raised, or so I keep hearing...in that case it seems prudent to vote on the side of caution since any reason not to is more ideological than practical
Well, depends on exactly what a "no" vote means. The Treasure can stop paying into various pensions for a few months, which pushes back the issue for a month or two. But if a no vote means "not now, not ever" shit is gonna get real.
| 10 |
albusteve Tue, May 31, 2011 1:37:27pm |
| 11 |
BishopX Tue, May 31, 2011 1:38:13pm |
re: #7 albusteve
What exactly happens depends on what Obama does. Until he releases a plan for post debt ceiling, we have no idea what will happen, besides bad things.
| 13 |
jamesfirecat Tue, May 31, 2011 1:38:20pm |
re: #2 windsagio
Not destroying the Economy, saving it!!!
///We had to destroy that village economy to save it.
| 14 |
freetoken Tue, May 31, 2011 1:39:43pm |
| 15 |
AK-47% Tue, May 31, 2011 1:39:58pm |
these people have principles to uphold.
I guess their logic is "better to wreck it now and get on with rebuilding than put off the inevitable, at which point things will be worse."
it does have a certain appeal
| 16 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, May 31, 2011 1:40:21pm |
So, we raise the debt ceiling, then what? Hit it again? Then what?
| 17 |
BishopX Tue, May 31, 2011 1:41:20pm |
re: #9 McSpiff
Well, depends on exactly what a "no" vote means. The Treasure can stop paying into various pensions for a few months, which pushes back the issue for a month or two. But if a no vote means "not now, not ever" shit is gonna get real.
This is a bargaining chip...the house puts a "clean" debt ceiling bill up for a vote, then defeats it. This allows the republican leadership to demand cuts in exchange for passing it it. By Geitner's figures they have until August 2nd to figure something out. We're already using all the tricks in the book.
| 18 |
wrenchwench Tue, May 31, 2011 1:42:06pm |
The local Republicans sent an email urging a phone call to our Representative. It includes this paragraph:
Don't Forget to call your representative and ask them if they plan to sign the letter issued by Reps. King and Bachmann. Urge them to pledge to vote "NO" on the next CR unless it contains a provision to defund Obamacare of the billions that were secretly and fraudulently appropriated by the old Democratic Congress. If this is not done now, this funding will be self-perpetuating into the future. Tell them to defund Obamacare & cut spending.
| 19 |
albusteve Tue, May 31, 2011 1:42:24pm |
re: #16 Cannadian Club Akbar
So, we raise the debt ceiling, then what? Hit it again? Then what?
exactly...and when the fuck are we gonna get a comprehensive energy plan?
the feds suck...too many posers staring at their hair in a mirror
| 20 |
jamesfirecat Tue, May 31, 2011 1:42:26pm |
re: #16 Cannadian Club Akbar
So, we raise the debt ceiling, then what? Hit it again? Then what?
We raise the debt ceiling, we spend more, we pull out of our economic depression/recession get unemployment back down to around 6.5 percent or so, and then we can ease back spending since the economy won't need the stimulation, and find ways to raise taxes without causing major shocks and use the additional revenue to close /eliminate the deficit....
| 21 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, May 31, 2011 1:43:35pm |
re: #19 albusteve
exactly...and when the fuck are we gonna get a comprehensive energy plan?
the feds suck...too many posers staring at their hair in a mirror
But they are very good at making a concerned face.
| 22 |
AK-47% Tue, May 31, 2011 1:43:51pm |
re: #20 jamesfirecat
find ways to raise taxes without causing major shocks ...
all tax increases are a dagger in the back of hard-working Americans
/
| 23 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, May 31, 2011 1:43:59pm |
re: #20 jamesfirecat
Politician get more money, they spend it. Then they raise taxes. Then they spend it.
| 26 |
Ming Tue, May 31, 2011 1:45:35pm |
I'm afraid that many Republicans in Congress have no particular desire to raise the debt ceiling. If you take them at their word, that a high priority for them is to prevent the reelection of President Obama, then you should keep in mind that a faltering economy is one of the very best ways to sabotage an incumbent president's chances of reelection.
The way things look now, if the economy continues a slow but steady improvement from now through November 2012, President Obama has a fairly good chance to be reelected. But if the economy sputters during that time, a good Republican candidate might just win the presidency.
So I don't see Republicans in Congress as particularly eager to keep the economic recovery going. Not raising the debt ceiling, and forcing the US to default on its debt, probably doesn't frighten them very much, because of its silver lining: it will hurt the President. And that's very important to some people.
| 27 |
albusteve Tue, May 31, 2011 1:45:56pm |
re: #20 jamesfirecat
We raise the debt ceiling, we spend more, we pull out of our economic depression/recession get unemployment back down to around 6.5 percent or so, and then we can ease back spending since the economy won't need the stimulation, and find ways to raise taxes without causing major shocks and use the additional revenue to close /eliminate the deficit...
what stimulation are you speaking of?
| 28 |
freetoken Tue, May 31, 2011 1:45:59pm |
So, what is happening today?
Here are 5 stories you should know about today.
Republican presidential hopefuls are busy . The election is still a year away, but Republican Presidential candidate hopefuls are out in force.
Both Michele Bachmann and Rick Santorum will spend today in New Hampshire while Ron Paul is scheduled to hold a meet and greet at the Rose Bowl in Mason City, Iowa.
Tim Pawlenty will also be in Iowa today.
The first straw poll in Iowa is just 3 months away, the caucuses are just a bit over 7 months away. NH primary is less than 8 months away. If any other Republicans are going to jump in they've got little time left to stand up organizations.
| 29 |
Jeff In Ohio Tue, May 31, 2011 1:46:03pm |
I have decided I will not pay my bills unless I produce a plan that will guarantee fiscal responsibility.
Yeah, that makes sense.
| 30 |
jamesfirecat Tue, May 31, 2011 1:46:17pm |
re: #23 Cannadian Club Akbar
Politician get more money, they spend it. Then they raise taxes. Then they spend it.
All I'm saying is that it's foolish to focus on the deficit in the middle of an economic recession. Right now money should be getting spent to put people to work.
Do you have any other suggestions?
| 31 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, May 31, 2011 1:46:23pm |
re: #22 ralphieboy
all tax increases are a dagger in the back of hard-working Americans
/
Na. We'll just cut benefits.
[Link: blogs.abcnews.com...]
| 32 |
AK-47% Tue, May 31, 2011 1:46:53pm |
re: #31 Cannadian Club Akbar
Na. We'll just cut benefits.
[Link: blogs.abcnews.com...]
only for losers
| 33 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, May 31, 2011 1:47:51pm |
re: #30 jamesfirecat
All I'm saying is that it's foolish to focus on the deficit in the middle of an economic recession. Right now money should be getting spent to put people to work.
Do you have any other suggestions?
We spent money to get people working. How'd that work out?
| 34 |
BishopX Tue, May 31, 2011 1:47:53pm |
| 35 |
Kragar Tue, May 31, 2011 1:48:46pm |
re: #31 Cannadian Club Akbar
Na. We'll just cut benefits.
[Link: blogs.abcnews.com...]
And give more tax breaks to companies so they'll produce jobs...overseas.
| 36 |
jamesfirecat Tue, May 31, 2011 1:48:55pm |
| 37 |
albusteve Tue, May 31, 2011 1:49:14pm |
| 38 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, May 31, 2011 1:49:26pm |
re: #35 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
And give more tax breaks to companies so they'll produce jobs...overseas.
Like making solar panels.
| 39 |
Jeff In Ohio Tue, May 31, 2011 1:49:39pm |
re: #33 Cannadian Club Akbar
We spent money to get people working. How'd that work out?
Pretty good.
| 40 |
jamesfirecat Tue, May 31, 2011 1:49:56pm |
re: #33 Cannadian Club Akbar
We spent money to get people working. How'd that work out?
It worked out better than it would have if we hadn't.
Do you not believe in Keynesian economics?
| 41 |
Jeff In Ohio Tue, May 31, 2011 1:50:31pm |
| 42 |
albusteve Tue, May 31, 2011 1:50:55pm |
re: #36 jamesfirecat
This kind of stimulation.
non of that has made a dent in unemployment...and we are gonna get wacked again
| 43 |
albusteve Tue, May 31, 2011 1:52:02pm |
you people are crazy...tossing around words and links like they actually mean anything
| 44 |
BishopX Tue, May 31, 2011 1:52:27pm |
re: #42 albusteve
It did make a dent in the unemployment....look at what's happening with the state budget's this year. That would have happened last year without the stimulus. It cushioned the blow considerably.
| 45 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, May 31, 2011 1:52:39pm |
re: #40 jamesfirecat
It worked out better than it would have if we hadn't.
Do you not believe in Keynesian economics?
I believe the gubment has a role, but remember, they don't make anything.
| 46 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, May 31, 2011 1:53:33pm |
re: #44 BishopX
It did make a dent in the unemployment...look at what's happening with the state budget's this year. That would have happened last year without the stimulus. It cushioned the blow considerably.
I know that's true in Florida. But the money is gone and the axe is falling.
| 47 |
wrenchwench Tue, May 31, 2011 1:53:41pm |
re: #43 albusteve
you people are crazy...tossing around words and links like they actually mean anything
And you're one of us.
Bwa ha ha ha!
| 48 |
jamesfirecat Tue, May 31, 2011 1:53:53pm |
re: #45 Cannadian Club Akbar
I believe the gubment has a role, but remember, they don't make anything.
Do you believe they can hire people who make things?
| 49 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, May 31, 2011 1:54:02pm |
re: #46 Cannadian Club Akbar
I know that's true in Florida. But the money is gone and the axe is falling.
In Oregon, one in five people is on food stamps.
One in five.
| 50 |
jamesfirecat Tue, May 31, 2011 1:54:50pm |
re: #46 Cannadian Club Akbar
I know that's true in Florida. But the money is gone and the axe is falling.
That's an argument that we didn't spend enough, not that spending doesn't work at all....
| 51 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, May 31, 2011 1:55:20pm |
re: #48 jamesfirecat
Do you believe they can hire people who make things?
We should hire people to make shirts. And all the people could wear the shirts. And we could hire people to make shoes. And all the people could wear the shoes...
//
| 52 |
McSpiff Tue, May 31, 2011 1:55:22pm |
re: #45 Cannadian Club Akbar
I believe the gubment has a role, but remember, they don't make anything.
If you think the global financial system is about making things, you're sadly mistaken. By not raising the debt celling, you're essentially removing one of the largest actors in the entire system.
| 53 |
Charles Johnson Tue, May 31, 2011 1:55:32pm |
Meanwhile, at the high-class news site The Daily Caller:
[Link: dailycaller.com...]
| 54 |
Obdicut Tue, May 31, 2011 1:55:44pm |
re: #45 Cannadian Club Akbar
I believe the gubment has a role, but remember, they don't make anything.
The government makes an absolute ton of stuff. I'm not sure what you mean. A lot of medical equipment, for example, gets designed and made in government laboratories.
They build a lot of buildings, bridges, etc. too.
| 55 |
shutdown Tue, May 31, 2011 1:56:02pm |
I think it is very prototypically American that people who have absolutely no knowledge of how government and economies actually function are sent to run the whole shebang. It's all a big game of going into the engine room and pressing random buttons to see what happens.
| 56 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, May 31, 2011 1:56:45pm |
re: #52 McSpiff
If you think the global financial system is about making things, you're sadly mistaken. By not raising the debt celling, you're essentially removing one of the largest actors in the entire system.
I never said anything for or against raising the debt ceiling.
| 57 |
jamesfirecat Tue, May 31, 2011 1:57:19pm |
re: #51 Cannadian Club Akbar
We should hire people to make shirts. And all the people could wear the shirts. And we could hire people to make shoes. And all the people could wear the shoes...
//
Its a hell of a lot better than leaving people to lay in the streets without shoes and without shirts who have the skills to make them but no company is willing to hire them because they don't have enough capital to spend.
If you pay someone to work then then they can then spend that money to buy things... that's the bed rock of capitalism.
If corporations aren't hiring than the government needs to step in and do it instead.
| 58 |
Digital Display Tue, May 31, 2011 1:57:19pm |
re: #45 Cannadian Club Akbar
I believe the gubment has a role, but remember, they don't make anything.
Damn..Building Nuclear Submarines at Mare Island for 20 years.. I thought I built something somewhat important
| 59 |
makeitstopghazi Tue, May 31, 2011 1:57:21pm |
re: #53 Charles
Meanwhile, at the high-class news site The Daily Caller:
[Link: dailycaller.com...]
That's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen on the internets. And that's goin' some.
| 60 |
McSpiff Tue, May 31, 2011 1:58:32pm |
re: #56 Cannadian Club Akbar
I never said anything for or against raising the debt ceiling.
Ok... Then what you said is a non-sequitur to the question you were asked.
| 61 |
shutdown Tue, May 31, 2011 1:59:16pm |
And the Capital of Nebraska is Lincoln!
It seems time for Big Jim Slade to come to the rescue.
| 62 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, May 31, 2011 1:59:57pm |
re: #58 HoosierHoops
Damn..Building Nuclear Submarines at Mare Island for 20 years.. I thought I built something somewhat important
I meant more along the lines of things mass produced.
| 63 |
darthstar Tue, May 31, 2011 2:00:04pm |
Thank you Ms Bachmann...I was just feeling a bit overwhelmed with the number of things I need to do this week and came here for a break. You just reminded me why actually getting shit done is better than symbolic attention getting bullshit, so it's back to the grindstone after what has to be my shortest internet break ever.
| 64 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, May 31, 2011 2:00:22pm |
re: #58 HoosierHoops
Damn..Building Nuclear Submarines at Mare Island for 20 years.. I thought I built something somewhat important
It was a conspiracy. You were actually making those for the Chi-Coms.
/
| 65 |
Targetpractice Tue, May 31, 2011 2:01:32pm |
re: #45 Cannadian Club Akbar
I believe the gubment has a role, but remember, they don't make anything.
| 66 |
McSpiff Tue, May 31, 2011 2:02:35pm |
re: #62 Cannadian Club Akbar
I meant more along the lines of things mass produced.
So only companies that mass produce physical objects are important for the economy? PricewaterhouseCoopers and Ernest&Young might disagree... Let alone Goldmansachs.
| 67 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, May 31, 2011 2:03:33pm |
re: #65 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
That was like, 75 years ago dude. Doesn't count.
/
| 68 |
makeitstopghazi Tue, May 31, 2011 2:04:12pm |
re: #62 Cannadian Club Akbar
I meant more along the lines of things mass produced.
The auto industry seems to be doing a lot better. Where would it be if we just let it die like some politicians were advocating?
| 69 |
Eclectic Infidel Tue, May 31, 2011 2:04:28pm |
Let's say we default our debt to China - legally, what could China do to the US? I mean, would we have to sell off our national parks, lease ports, etc?
| 70 |
albusteve Tue, May 31, 2011 2:04:48pm |
re: #65 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
the Hoover dam could have been privately financed for a profit....the feds main role was negotiating water rights
| 71 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, May 31, 2011 2:04:55pm |
re: #68 makeitstop
The auto industry seems to be doing a lot better. Where would it be if we just let it die like some politicians were advocating?
I don't recall saying to let the auto giants die.
| 72 |
makeitstopghazi Tue, May 31, 2011 2:05:25pm |
re: #71 Cannadian Club Akbar
I don't recall saying to let the auto giants die.
And I don't recall accusing you of saying that.
| 73 |
albusteve Tue, May 31, 2011 2:05:41pm |
re: #68 makeitstop
The auto industry seems to be doing a lot better. Where would it be if we just let it die like some politicians were advocating?
bankruptcy is not death, it's reorganization
| 74 |
shutdown Tue, May 31, 2011 2:07:02pm |
re: #70 albusteve
re: #68 makeitstop
The government is, economically speaking, a re-distributor rather than a creator of wealth an value. That does not mean the role of re-distribution is unimportant. Where government owns an enterprise, this enterprise is, technically speaking, outside the government sector and part of the industrial (if not private industrial) sector.
| 75 |
McSpiff Tue, May 31, 2011 2:08:33pm |
re: #69 eclectic infidel
Let's say we default our debt to China - legally, what could China do to the US? I mean, would we have to sell off our national parks, lease ports, etc?
Depending on the type of debt held (I'm not sure what the particular break down in terms of instruments US government debt is) it may be impossible to default on only one country like that.
| 76 |
shutdown Tue, May 31, 2011 2:11:31pm |
re: #75 McSpiff
Depending on the type of debt held (I'm not sure what the particular break down in terms of instruments US government debt is) it may be impossible to default on only one country like that.
Treasury does not issue secured debt, so no national assets can legally be "seized" or forfeited as collateral to any holder of US sovereign debt. The true penalty of default is the inability to issue debt at reasonable rates post-default. The national currency suffers as a result of economic contraction. The private sector also suffers trade-related consequences.
| 77 |
makeitstopghazi Tue, May 31, 2011 2:11:39pm |
re: #75 McSpiff
Depending on the type of debt held (I'm not sure what the particular break down in terms of instruments US government debt is) it may be impossible to default on only one country like that.
And wouldn't the country's credit rating take a hit once we start defaulting?
| 78 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, May 31, 2011 2:11:51pm |
Housing prices dropping like it's 1932...
[Link: www.economist.com...]
| 79 |
Targetpractice Tue, May 31, 2011 2:12:29pm |
re: #70 albusteve
the Hoover dam could have been privately financed for a profit...the feds main role was negotiating water rights
Could have been, but wasn't. Many private companies had considered the idea and, either due to the political situation or the technological limitations of the time, written it off as unprofitable.
| 80 |
McSpiff Tue, May 31, 2011 2:12:59pm |
re: #76 imp_62
Treasury does not issue secured debt, so no national assets can legally be "seized" or forfeited as collateral to any holder of US sovereign debt. The true penalty of default is the inability to issue debt at reasonable rates post-default. The national currency suffers as a result of economic contraction. The private sector also suffers trade-related consequences.
That too of course, but I meant in general sense there would be no way to single out one country for default on the debt, its pretty much an all or nothing system.
| 81 |
Kragar Tue, May 31, 2011 2:13:07pm |
re: #78 Cannadian Club Akbar
Housing prices dropping like it's 1932...
[Link: www.economist.com...]
Glad I waited.
| 82 |
albusteve Tue, May 31, 2011 2:13:32pm |
re: #79 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Could have been, but wasn't. Many private companies had considered the idea and, either due to the political situation or the technological limitations of the time, written it off as unprofitable.
they were wrong
| 83 |
darthstar Tue, May 31, 2011 2:13:33pm |
re: #78 Cannadian Club Akbar
Housing prices dropping like it's 1932...
[Link: www.economist.com...]
Funny...my house just got appraised for 35K more than I paid for it in January...a 5% INCREASE in value - of course, that appraisal was done by the county and now they want an extra 350 dollars in property tax to go with it.
| 84 |
shutdown Tue, May 31, 2011 2:13:58pm |
re: #80 McSpiff
That too of course, but I meant in general sense there would be no way to single out one country for default on the debt, its pretty much an all or nothing system.
Correct. There is no way to default on specific series of debt; defaults would be rolling as the notes come due.
| 85 |
Kragar Tue, May 31, 2011 2:13:58pm |
re: #78 Cannadian Club Akbar
Housing prices dropping like it's 1932...
[Link: www.economist.com...]
Wait, that article is from 2008.
| 86 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, May 31, 2011 2:14:23pm |
re: #83 darthstar
Funny...my house just got appraised for 35K more than I paid for it in January...a 5% INCREASE in value - of course, that appraisal was done by the county and now they want an extra 350 dollars in property tax to go with it.
Color me shocked!!:)
| 87 |
albusteve Tue, May 31, 2011 2:15:29pm |
re: #83 darthstar
Funny...my house just got appraised for 35K more than I paid for it in January...a 5% INCREASE in value - of course, that appraisal was done by the county and now they want an extra 350 dollars in property tax to go with it.
yeah that's funny....how many Americans live on the ocean?...maybe a limited market?....really your home value means little generally
| 88 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, May 31, 2011 2:15:55pm |
re: #85 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Wait, that article is from 2008.
I cross referenced it with another article. D'oh!! Try this one.
[Link: www.doctorhousingbubble.com...]
| 89 |
shutdown Tue, May 31, 2011 2:16:03pm |
re: #83 darthstar
Challenge the appraisal. A reduced tax appraisal has no negative effect on the market value of the home. On the contrary; lower taxes lead to a higher price.
| 90 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, May 31, 2011 2:16:16pm |
re: #59 makeitstop
That's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen on the internets. And that's goin' some.
Yes. It's lacking Answer #4: Why in the name of God would I look closely enough at these pictures to form an opinion?
Answer #5, is, of course, "It's actually Ron Paul".
| 91 |
shutdown Tue, May 31, 2011 2:16:58pm |
re: #90 SanFranciscoZionist
Yes. It's lacking Answer #4: Why in the name of God would I look closely enough at these pictures to form an opinion?
Answer #5, is, of course, "It's actually Ron Paul".
You mean, Ron Jeremy....
| 92 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, May 31, 2011 2:17:02pm |
re: #87 albusteve
yeah that's funny...how many Americans live on the ocean?...maybe a limited market?...really your home value means little generally
Um, unless you need to sell it and you owe more than you can sell it for.
Then you have a problem.
| 93 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, May 31, 2011 2:17:36pm |
re: #88 Cannadian Club Akbar
I cross referenced it with another article. D'oh!! Try this one.
[Link: www.doctorhousingbubble.com...]
The date stamp on the google link said May 15, 2011.
| 94 |
Kragar Tue, May 31, 2011 2:17:45pm |
re: #91 imp_62
You mean, Ron Jeremy...
No, Ron wouldn't fit in those pants and there would be a lot more hair involved.
| 95 |
albusteve Tue, May 31, 2011 2:18:41pm |
re: #92 EmmmieG
Um, unless you need to sell it and you owe more than you can sell it for.
Then you have a problem.
I was referring to the posters property
| 96 |
Kragar Tue, May 31, 2011 2:19:17pm |
A meeting of Duh minds
| 97 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, May 31, 2011 2:19:27pm |
Crap. I have to run to the store. Making home made pizza. BBL. (please don't turn this into a pineapple thread)
| 98 |
McSpiff Tue, May 31, 2011 2:19:42pm |
re: #77 makeitstop
And wouldn't the country's credit rating take a hit once we start defaulting?
Honestly, I'm just an engineering student who's done a bit of reading (but graduating tomorrow, hey-o!... sorry OT).
If it honestly comes to a default, I'm not sure anyone really knows what happens next..
| 99 |
Targetpractice Tue, May 31, 2011 2:19:44pm |
re: #82 albusteve
they were wrong
I'm sure if I looked around, I'd find a nice long list of things that private industry wrote off as "infeasible," "impossible," or "unprofitable," until the government stepped in and sponsored the initial research and development.
| 100 |
McSpiff Tue, May 31, 2011 2:20:10pm |
re: #99 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
I'm sure if I looked around, I'd find a nice long list of things that private industry wrote off as "infeasible," "impossible," or "unprofitable," until the government stepped in and sponsored the initial research and development.
See: The moon.
| 101 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, May 31, 2011 2:20:49pm |
re: #95 albusteve
I was referring to the posters property
Sorry.
My government appraised value goes up every year because it never tracked the market value. It was so far below I'm not sure that even now it has caught up.
| 102 |
Kragar Tue, May 31, 2011 2:21:13pm |
re: #100 McSpiff
See: The moon.
Darpa is nothing more than communist liberal hippies wasting our tax dollars!
| 103 |
wee fury Tue, May 31, 2011 2:21:37pm |
re: #98 McSpiff
Honestly, I'm just an engineering student who's done a bit of reading (but graduating tomorrow, hey-o!... sorry OT).
If it honestly comes to a default, I'm not sure anyone really knows what happens next..
Repo people are called in.
| 104 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, May 31, 2011 2:22:11pm |
Power up your TARDIS. Here's an article from June 1, 2011 on house prices:
[Link: www.smh.com.au...]
| 105 |
Targetpractice Tue, May 31, 2011 2:22:12pm |
re: #102 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Darpa is nothing more than communist liberal hippies wasting our tax dollars!
Yeah, I mean who in their right mind would believe that you could link two computers through telephone lines?
/
| 106 |
McSpiff Tue, May 31, 2011 2:23:00pm |
re: #103 wee fury
Repo people are called in.
Well thats just it, the debt is secured.. All that happens is the rest of the world stops giving the US money.
| 107 |
shutdown Tue, May 31, 2011 2:23:05pm |
re: #97 Cannadian Club Akbar
Crap. I have to run to the store. Making home made pizza. BBL. (please don't turn this into a pineapple thread)
Pineapple on Pizza: yes or no? (Wait til CCA is gone to vote)
| 108 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, May 31, 2011 2:23:09pm |
| 109 |
makeitstopghazi Tue, May 31, 2011 2:23:15pm |
re: #98 McSpiff
Honestly, I'm just an engineering student who's done a bit of reading (but graduating tomorrow, hey-o!... sorry OT).
If it honestly comes to a default, I'm not sure anyone really knows what happens next..
Congrats on the graduation!
All I can compare the circumstances of default to is what would happen if I started missing things like mortgage payments and credit card bills. It would take me a long time to get back in the good graces of my creditors.
The same rules must apply to some extent.
| 110 |
Kragar Tue, May 31, 2011 2:23:19pm |
re: #105 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Yeah, I mean who in their right mind would believe that you could link two computers through telephone lines?
/
What are these Commie-puters you're talking about, Red?
| 111 |
albusteve Tue, May 31, 2011 2:23:19pm |
re: #99 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
I'm sure if I looked around, I'd find a nice long list of things that private industry wrote off as "infeasible," "impossible," or "unprofitable," until the government stepped in and sponsored the initial research and development.
six companies combined to built that dam...and to this day, water should be sold to Vegas at a premium...there were untold billions waiting to be made for guys like Wynn who had no problem financing his latest 2b cathedral to hedonism...there was plenty of money to go around
| 112 |
McSpiff Tue, May 31, 2011 2:23:32pm |
re: #106 McSpiff
Well thats just it, the debt is secured.. All that happens is the rest of the world stops giving the US money.
ISN'T. Doh!
| 114 |
wee fury Tue, May 31, 2011 2:24:48pm |
| 115 |
Kragar Tue, May 31, 2011 2:26:53pm |
Bachmann: Democrats 'terribly afraid' of her
Yes, all that snickering and giggling is in pure abject terror, obviously.
| 116 |
windsagio Tue, May 31, 2011 2:28:03pm |
re: #115 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Well we would be afraid if she had any chance of real national power, so maybe half-right?
It staggers the mind to imagine that scenario :(
| 117 |
shutdown Tue, May 31, 2011 2:28:20pm |
re: #98 McSpiff
Honestly, I'm just an engineering student who's done a bit of reading (but graduating tomorrow, hey-o!... sorry OT).
If it honestly comes to a default, I'm not sure anyone really knows what happens next..
The progression of events is actually quite well defined. There have been sovereign defaults in the past (Argentina, et al). It is the duration and depth of the negative fallout on the economy that is in question. DOn't be fooled by Wingnuts who claim it will be a "good thing to wipe the slate clean"; that is bullshit. When the largest cog in a machine stops working, the machine stops working. The effects on the global economy of a US default will be substantial.
This is all an outcropping of the ridiculous "starve the beast" right wing extreme thinking that holds the US government should be deprived of the ability to issue debt, implying that somehow, out lives will be better if the central government is impoverished, powerless and irrelevant. Right back to 1777 we go, as if Federalism and taxing authority and debt authority had never been negotiated amongst the States. I guess the actions of the founders are only sacrosanct when it serves the purposes of the Teabaggers.
| 118 |
recusancy Tue, May 31, 2011 2:30:25pm |
| 119 |
Obdicut Tue, May 31, 2011 2:30:55pm |
re: #117 imp_62
Argentina's collapse should serve as a warning, not an instruction manual.
| 120 |
windsagio Tue, May 31, 2011 2:31:08pm |
re: #117 imp_62
It's exactly the same thing as why some of the liberal dreams about cutting our defense spending by crazy %'s are terrible.
Our entire economy is built on Government spending, and we'll fall apart without it.
~~
The scary idea that it raises is of course 'how possible is it actually to get the budget under control without massive economic impact?'
| 121 |
albusteve Tue, May 31, 2011 2:31:54pm |
re: #115 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Bachmann: Democrats 'terribly afraid' of her
Yes, all that snickering and giggling is in pure abject terror, obviously.
seems she's petrified of teenagers herself
| 122 |
makeitstopghazi Tue, May 31, 2011 2:32:19pm |
re: #115 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Bachmann: Democrats 'terribly afraid' of her
Yes, all that snickering and giggling is in pure abject terror, obviously.
In her own words:
"I think that comparison shows me very favorable compared to the current president of the United States," she said.
'Shows her very favorable?'
Don't American presidents have to be able to actually speak English?
| 124 |
shutdown Tue, May 31, 2011 2:33:17pm |
re: #119 Obdicut
Argentina's collapse should serve as a warning, not an instruction manual.
I agree. My statement was that the progression of events following sovereign default are pretty well known. If we don't repay our debt or service it, the ability to issue new debt, or even roll over existing debt, will be severely curtailed die to a lack of willing investors and a spike in interest rates.
| 125 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, May 31, 2011 2:33:55pm |
re: #115 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Bachmann: Democrats 'terribly afraid' of her
Yes, all that snickering and giggling is in pure abject terror, obviously.
"Women are not inclined to go necessarily toward the liberal policies of Barack Obama. If they see a common-sense conservative like myself making the case for pro-growth politics, that threatens the Democrats, so they want to attack," she said.
"Yeah! That's the ticket!"
| 126 |
Obdicut Tue, May 31, 2011 2:34:07pm |
re: #124 imp_62
Yep. Defaulting on the debt will drive us deeper into debt. Yay.
| 127 |
Charles Johnson Tue, May 31, 2011 2:34:19pm |
Every single headline on Breitbart's Big Government site is about 'Weinergate'.
They're pumping this one for all they're worth.
| 128 |
shutdown Tue, May 31, 2011 2:34:23pm |
re: #120 windsagio
It's exactly the same thing as why some of the liberal dreams about cutting our defense spending by crazy %'s are terrible.
Our entire economy is built on Government spending, and we'll fall apart without it.
~~
The scary idea that it raises is of course 'how possible is it actually to get the budget under control without massive economic impact?'
Not so much on government spending (which is important) as it is on the idea of a stable and liquid central government that can fulfill the legal demands placed on it.
| 129 |
Kragar Tue, May 31, 2011 2:34:37pm |
re: #122 makeitstop
In her own words:
'Shows her very favorable?'
Don't American presidents have to be able to actually speak English?
She's polling very highly in the "Stupid Voters" bracket.
| 130 |
windsagio Tue, May 31, 2011 2:35:09pm |
re: #128 imp_62
well my point is both. Again, what would happen if we cut military and nasa spending by 80%?
| 131 |
shutdown Tue, May 31, 2011 2:35:10pm |
re: #127 Charles
Every single headline on Breitbart's Big Government site is about 'Weinergate'.
They're pumping this one for they're worth.
I'm gonna ignore the word "pumping" in the context of "weiner" and give you the benefit of th edoubt, since you're the patron...
| 132 |
windsagio Tue, May 31, 2011 2:35:34pm |
re: #127 Charles
Breitbart has more than a little bit of the bulldog in him.
| 133 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, May 31, 2011 2:35:37pm |
re: #127 Charles
No pun intended?
| 134 |
makeitstopghazi Tue, May 31, 2011 2:36:33pm |
re: #131 imp_62
I'm gonna ignore the word "pumping" in the context of "weiner" and give you the benefit of th edoubt, since you're the patron...
The jokes write themselves. The thread from earlier today is proof.
| 135 |
shutdown Tue, May 31, 2011 2:36:45pm |
re: #130 windsagio
well my point is both. Again, what would happen if we cut military and nasa spending by 80%?
Couldn't really say... In the short term, probably nothing good, but I am not necessarily a fan of how much government spends. I am simply a big believer that change comes through a gradual, controlled process, not by way of sone crazy-eyed imbeciles deciding to make the country insolvent.
| 137 |
shutdown Tue, May 31, 2011 2:37:53pm |
@McSpiff: just re-read your earlier post and congratulations on your graduation!
| 138 |
windsagio Tue, May 31, 2011 2:37:57pm |
re: #135 imp_62
Oh totally, I guess what I'm saying is 'lol we're screwed' ><
| 139 |
shutdown Tue, May 31, 2011 2:38:20pm |
re: #138 windsagio
Oh totally, I guess what I'm saying is 'lol we're screwed' ><
Agreed. Miller time.
| 140 |
McSpiff Tue, May 31, 2011 2:39:01pm |
re: #117 imp_62
The progression of events is actually quite well defined. There have been sovereign defaults in the past (Argentina, et al). It is the duration and depth of the negative fallout on the economy that is in question. DOn't be fooled by Wingnuts who claim it will be a "good thing to wipe the slate clean"; that is bullshit. When the largest cog in a machine stops working, the machine stops working. The effects on the global economy of a US default will be substantial.
This is all an outcropping of the ridiculous "starve the beast" right wing extreme thinking that holds the US government should be deprived of the ability to issue debt, implying that somehow, out lives will be better if the central government is impoverished, powerless and irrelevant. Right back to 1777 we go, as if Federalism and taxing authority and debt authority had never been negotiated amongst the States. I guess the actions of the founders are only sacrosanct when it serves the purposes of the Teabaggers.
Well yes, this is "just" another sovereign default, I'm not sure we've ever seen anything like this... Could the rating agencies seriously continue giving US debt a AA rating if there was a default? What happens to the various institutional investors, reserve requirements, etc that depends on US Government debt never defaulting. What happens if people decide their banks are insolvent and the FDIC can't borrow against the Treasury?
| 141 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, May 31, 2011 2:39:05pm |
re: #122 makeitstop
In her own words:
'Shows her very favorable?'
Don't American presidents have to be able to actually speak English?
Nah, not really. Bush regularly lapsed into his own odd pidgin, but you could understand him, so it didn't really matter.
And his father was unable to say the word "I".
But they both managed.
| 142 |
Ben G. Hazi Tue, May 31, 2011 2:39:59pm |
re: #127 Charles
Every single headline on Breitbart's Big Government site is about 'Weinergate'.
They're pumping this one for they're worth.
HUHHUHHUHUHUH...
/Beavis & Butt-Head
| 143 |
Kragar Tue, May 31, 2011 2:42:43pm |
| 144 |
Targetpractice Tue, May 31, 2011 2:43:05pm |
re: #127 Charles
Every single headline on Breitbart's Big Government site is about 'Weinergate'.
They're pumping this one for all they're worth.
Yeah, the wingnuts seem to be still be awfully pissed that Weiner dared to speak out of the truth of the Ryan Plan. Seems that, in absence of any real ideas, they've resorted to the time-(dis)honored tradition of character assassination.
| 145 |
watching you tiny alien kittens are Tue, May 31, 2011 2:45:07pm |
I am so going to burn for torturing my poor small kitty. I have been out of the house on and off all day and didn't realize that his kibble bowl was approaching empty. Now he is circling my chair while meowing piteously since I already followed him into the kitchen and saw his empty bowl and did NOTHING! (EVIL!11!!)
I suppose teaching him that sometimes his kibble bowl might actually be empty (gasp!) for an hour or two while I'm away is a worthwhile lesson even if he is driving me nuts right now?
| 146 |
shutdown Tue, May 31, 2011 2:45:07pm |
re: #140 McSpiff
Well yes, this is "just" another sovereign default, I'm not sure we've ever seen anything like this... Could the rating agencies seriously continue giving US debt a AA rating if there was a default? What happens to the various institutional investors, reserve requirements, etc that depends on US Government debt never defaulting. What happens if people decide their banks are insolvent and the FDIC can't borrow against the Treasury?
If the US defaults on its debt, the NRSROs (Nationally Recognized Statistical Rating Organizations) would have to significantly downgrade US sovereign ratings. A "BB" rating would not be out of the question, if the situation persists and the debt ceiling remains insufficient to repay or service debt.
That said, IIRC in the event the debt ceiling is not raised, the real effect would be on the ability of the government to meet domestic mandated expenditures, as the priority for Treasury fund is to service debt first, and there is enough tax income to do so. And maturing debt would be rolled over (albeit likely at higher interest rates) under the current ceiling. But Medicare, SS, salaries, etc. would no longer be covered by the remaining available funds. This would lead to severe domestic issues, while leaving the global investing community alarmed, but not unpaid.
As I stated earlier, this is a very complex issue, but not a terribly complicated one.
| 147 |
makeitstopghazi Tue, May 31, 2011 2:45:10pm |
re: #141 SanFranciscoZionist
Nah, not really. Bush regularly lapsed into his own odd pidgin, but you could understand him, so it didn't really matter.
And his father was unable to say the word "I".
But they both managed.
I always thought of W as the Yogi Berra (or maybe the Norm Crosby) of presidents. Even when I disagreed with him (which was quite often), his linguistic lapses were what I liked most about him.
| 148 |
Kragar Tue, May 31, 2011 2:47:03pm |
re: #145 ausador
I am so going to burn for torturing my poor small kitty. I have been out of the house on and off all day and didn't realize that his kibble bowl was approaching empty. Now he is circling my chair while meowing piteously since I already followed him into the kitchen and saw his empty bowl and did NOTHING! (EVIL!11!!)
I suppose teaching him that sometimes his kibble bowl might actually be empty (gasp!) for an hour or two while I'm away is a worthwhile lesson even if he is driving me nuts right now?
WHY ARE YOU TYPING WHEN THE KITTY IS HUNGRY?! DON'T YOU HAVE A SOUL? WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU!?
/
| 149 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, May 31, 2011 2:47:12pm |
re: #147 makeitstop
I always thought of W as the Yogi Berra (or maybe the Norm Crosby) of presidents. Even when I disagreed with him (which was quite often), his linguistic lapses were what I liked most about him.
My mother still reminds me from time to time--usually in the context of urging me to take a job--that we need to put food on our families.
| 150 |
shutdown Tue, May 31, 2011 2:48:12pm |
re: #149 SanFranciscoZionist
My mother still reminds me from time to time--usually in the context of urging me to take a job--that we need to put food on our families.
She's a good woman. Why are you kvetching? You should call her, by the way.
| 151 |
recusancy Tue, May 31, 2011 2:48:16pm |
re: #146 imp_62
If the US defaults on its debt, the NRSROs (Nationally Recognized Statistical Rating Organizations) would have to significantly downgrade US sovereign ratings. A "BB" rating would not be out of the question, if the situation persists and the debt ceiling remains insufficient to repay or service debt.
That said, IIRC in the event the debt ceiling is not raised, the real effect would be on the ability of the government to meet domestic mandated expenditures, as the priority for Treasury fund is to service debt first, and there is enough tax income to do so. And maturing debt would be rolled over (albeit likely at higher interest rates) under the current ceiling. But Medicare, SS, salaries, etc. would no longer be covered by the remaining available funds. This would lead to severe domestic issues, while leaving the global investing community alarmed, but not unpaid.
As I stated earlier, this is a very complex issue, but not a terribly complicated one.
People are taking the fact that we don't know exactly what will happen to mean that one of the outcomes could be good. It's not between good and bad. It's between bad, really bad, or catastrophic.
| 152 |
McSpiff Tue, May 31, 2011 2:48:18pm |
re: #146 imp_62
If the US defaults on its debt, the NRSROs (Nationally Recognized Statistical Rating Organizations) would have to significantly downgrade US sovereign ratings. A "BB" rating would not be out of the question, if the situation persists and the debt ceiling remains insufficient to repay or service debt.
That said, IIRC in the event the debt ceiling is not raised, the real effect would be on the ability of the government to meet domestic mandated expenditures, as the priority for Treasury fund is to service debt first, and there is enough tax income to do so. And maturing debt would be rolled over (albeit likely at higher interest rates) under the current ceiling. But Medicare, SS, salaries, etc. would no longer be covered by the remaining available funds. This would lead to severe domestic issues, while leaving the global investing community alarmed, but not unpaid.
As I stated earlier, this is a very complex issue, but not a terribly complicated one.
Ah ok, I wasn't sure about that. Probably should have checked.
| 153 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, May 31, 2011 2:49:07pm |
I am quite circumspect with regard to this whole Weinergate thing. I believe we are just seeing the tip of the iceberg here.
| 154 |
watching you tiny alien kittens are Tue, May 31, 2011 2:49:16pm |
re: #127 Charles
Every single headline on Breitbart's Big Government site is about 'Weinergate'.
They're pumping this one for all they're worth.
Didn't I see late night infomercials for this lately? The "Weiner Pump 2011" or...uhh... something like that, they say it is even covered by medicare, I wonder if Breitbart has filed his claim yet?
/
| 155 |
AK-47% Tue, May 31, 2011 2:49:33pm |
| 156 |
shutdown Tue, May 31, 2011 2:49:48pm |
re: #151 recusancy
It's like when my kids say: "yeah, but what if I could safely jump off the roof? WOuld you let me do it?"
| 157 |
Kragar Tue, May 31, 2011 2:50:36pm |
Gaddafi snatch squads took hundreds
The full extent of the missing has only been revealed as the city slowly comes back to life following the ferocious bombardment by forces loyal to Col Gaddafi.
Many families were unable to leave their homes after regime tanks entered the heart of the city and snipers took up positions on roof tops. Rebel fighters backed by Nato airstrikes forced regime forces to the outskirts of the city two weeks ago, allowing families to venture out again.
A newly opened missing persons office has registered 1,020 people with the number rising every day, said lawyer Tarek Abdul Hadi, organising the piles of forms detailing those missing. Families yesterday were pushing photos of their loved ones into the building. "These just arrived in the last hour," said Mr Hadi, indicating a pile of passport photos of Misrata's lost men, women and children on his desk.
Most of the missing are men between the ages of 20 and 40. More than 40 children, some as young as six, and elderly people between 60 and 85 years are also missing, he said. "Fighters report seeing some being used as human shields on the front lines, others have been taken away to fight for Gaddafi," he said. "But many, many are presumed dead."
| 158 |
makeitstopghazi Tue, May 31, 2011 2:50:40pm |
re: #153 Slumbering Behemoth
I am quite circumspect with regard to this whole Weinergate thing. I believe we are just seeing the tip of the iceberg here.
I guess we'll need to wait until it comes to a head.
| 159 |
windsagio Tue, May 31, 2011 2:50:40pm |
| 160 |
Targetpractice Tue, May 31, 2011 2:50:50pm |
re: #151 recusancy
People are taking the fact that we don't know exactly what will happen to mean that one of the outcomes could be good. It's not between good and bad. It's between bad, really bad, or catastrophic.
"Well, it can't be all that bad, now can it?"
///
| 162 |
Kragar Tue, May 31, 2011 2:51:30pm |
re: #154 ausador
Didn't I see late night infomercials for this lately? The "Weiner Pump 2011" or...uhh... something like that, they say it is even covered by medicare, I wonder if Breitbart has filed his claim yet?
/
I think he's waiting for the Saddleback model.
Feed the kitty.
| 163 |
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Tue, May 31, 2011 2:52:12pm |
re: #158 makeitstop
I guess we'll need to wait until it comes to a head.
well with those nuts it's likely to explode in their face.
| 165 |
McSpiff Tue, May 31, 2011 2:54:03pm |
re: #160 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
"Well, it can't be all that bad, now can it?"
///
Roll back time. Roll back amendments, roll back women's and minority rights, why not assume you can just blame the debt on those nasty libs and roll that back too?
| 166 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, May 31, 2011 2:54:07pm |
| 167 |
Kragar Tue, May 31, 2011 2:54:33pm |
Japan pensioners volunteer to tackle nuclear crisis
The retired engineer is reporting back for duty at the age of 72, and he is organising a team of pensioners to go with him.
For weeks now Mr Yamada has been getting back in touch with old friends, sending out e-mails and even messages on Twitter.
Volunteering to take the place of younger workers at the power station is not brave, Mr Yamada says, but logical.
"I am 72 and on average I probably have 13 to 15 years left to live," he says.
"Even if I were exposed to radiation, cancer could take 20 or 30 years or longer to develop. Therefore us older ones have less chance of getting cancer."
| 168 |
makeitstopghazi Tue, May 31, 2011 2:54:45pm |
| 169 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, May 31, 2011 2:55:40pm |
| 170 |
windsagio Tue, May 31, 2011 2:56:42pm |
re: #166 Slumbering Behemoth
I'm not sure how I could get the second and third puns but not the first one :(
/bonk self.
| 171 |
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Tue, May 31, 2011 2:57:03pm |
re: #127 Charles
So he's really blowing his wad over weiner?
| 172 |
Targetpractice Tue, May 31, 2011 2:57:47pm |
re: #165 McSpiff
Roll back time. Roll back amendments, roll back women's and minority rights, why not assume you can just blame the debt on those nasty libs and roll that back too?
Yep, roll back everything...except the tax cuts!
//
| 173 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, May 31, 2011 2:57:53pm |
re: #170 windsagio
Well, "circumspect" was a bit of a stretch.
| 174 |
AK-47% Tue, May 31, 2011 2:57:59pm |
re: #171 Dreggas
So he's really blowing his wad over weiner?
just squeezing it for all its worth to see what comes out of it...
| 175 |
makeitstopghazi Tue, May 31, 2011 2:58:00pm |
re: #171 Dreggas
So he's really blowing his wad over weiner?
And he may end up getting the shaft for it.
Okay, I'll stop now.
| 176 |
Kragar Tue, May 31, 2011 2:58:05pm |
This Weiner thing is getting out of hand and its only a matter of time before it blows up in Breitbart's face.
| 177 |
windsagio Tue, May 31, 2011 2:58:29pm |
re: #173 Slumbering Behemoth
Once I got it, my mind was blown :D
| 178 |
shutdown Tue, May 31, 2011 2:58:56pm |
re: #171 Dreggas
So he's really blowing his wad over weiner?
I think the whole issue has stiffened the resolve of his staff to erect better firewalls.
Beat this, suckers.
| 179 |
brownbagj Tue, May 31, 2011 2:59:04pm |
Weiner's large staff wants to stuff the kitty.
Wait, wut?
/
| 180 |
Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All Tue, May 31, 2011 2:59:28pm |
Crazy off topic, but my letter to the Atlanta Spirit Group after they sold the Thrashers (I am NOT a happy camper):
To the Spirit Group,
I understand that managing a sports franchise during a recession is a difficult proposition, however the failure of the Thrashers to thrive in Atlanta falls squarely upon your shoulders. Despite the claims of community and commitment, you seem to be more interested in your investment in the Hawks and treated the Thrashers as an afterthought through out the time you owned both teams. Your lack of willingness calls into question your commitment to Atlanta sports as a whole and the Atlanta Hawks specifically.
I do not trust your ownership group to own sports franchisees. As such, I will no longer attend or watch Atlanta Hawks games while you remain owners.
In addition, I promise you, while your ownership group owns the Hawks, I will strive to ensure that as many people as possible never watch or attend another Hawks game.
| 181 |
windsagio Tue, May 31, 2011 3:00:16pm |
re: #180 bloodstar
Can't complain too much, Seattle got their team actively stolen :p
| 182 |
shutdown Tue, May 31, 2011 3:01:24pm |
re: #180 bloodstar
Crazy off topic, but my letter to the Atlanta Spirit Group after they sold the Thrashers (I am NOT a happy camper):
To the Spirit Group,
I understand that managing a sports franchise during a recession is a difficult proposition, however the failure of the Thrashers to thrive in Atlanta falls squarely upon your shoulders. Despite the claims of community and commitment, you seem to be more interested in your investment in the Hawks and treated the Thrashers as an afterthought through out the time you owned both teams. Your lack of willingness calls into question your commitment to Atlanta sports as a whole and the Atlanta Hawks specifically.
I do not trust your ownership group to own sports franchisees. As such, I will no longer attend or watch Atlanta Hawks games while you remain owners.
In addition, I promise you, while your ownership group owns the Hawks, I will strive to ensure that as many people as possible never watch or attend another Hawks game.
I empathize. But I have never believed that ice hockey has any place south of the Mason-Dixon Line.
| 183 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, May 31, 2011 3:02:04pm |
re: #180 bloodstar
Crazy off topic, but my letter to the Atlanta Spirit Group after they sold the Thrashers (I am NOT a happy camper):
To the Spirit Group,
I understand that managing a sports franchise during a recession is a difficult proposition, however the failure of the Thrashers to thrive in Atlanta falls squarely upon your shoulders. Despite the claims of community and commitment, you seem to be more interested in your investment in the Hawks and treated the Thrashers as an afterthought through out the time you owned both teams. Your lack of willingness calls into question your commitment to Atlanta sports as a whole and the Atlanta Hawks specifically.
I do not trust your ownership group to own sports franchisees. As such, I will no longer attend or watch Atlanta Hawks games while you remain owners.
In addition, I promise you, while your ownership group owns the Hawks, I will strive to ensure that as many people as possible never watch or attend another Hawks game.
Their hockey team is going home, to Canada.
| 184 |
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Tue, May 31, 2011 3:02:09pm |
re: #178 imp_62
I think the whole issue has stiffened the resolve of his staff to erect better firewalls.
Beat this, suckers.
now, now don't get too cocky. The issue is getting hard on Breitbart because he thought he had a real money shot but thanks to a quick response the entire issue is becoming rather flacid. He might as well just take his balls and go home at this point because he's just beating the subject to death. There's nothing new coming out of weiner gate and nothing the least big incriminating (no stains on a blue dress so to speak).
| 185 |
Kragar Tue, May 31, 2011 3:02:15pm |
re: #178 imp_62
I think the whole issue has stiffened the resolve of his staff to erect better firewalls.
Beat this, suckers.
I hear that Vera Wang has a new line of fashion coming this summer.
| 186 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, May 31, 2011 3:02:27pm |
re: #176 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
This Weiner thing is getting out of hand and its only a matter of time before it blows up in Breitbart's face.
Breitbart is an angry little prick.
And that, my Lizards, ain't no pun.
| 187 |
Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All Tue, May 31, 2011 3:02:41pm |
re: #181 windsagio
Can't complain too much, Seattle got their team actively stolen :p
I heard about that too, crappy all around, Just that in this case, the ownership group owns both the Hawks and the Thrashers, and they're going to keep the Hawks, which they'd made clear was the only thing they were interested in anyway. So they can still get their pocketbook hurt, and I plan to hurt it.
| 188 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, May 31, 2011 3:03:21pm |
My son has started a new business, visit his store.
| 189 |
shutdown Tue, May 31, 2011 3:03:47pm |
re: #184 Dreggas
now, now don't get too cocky. The issue is getting hard on Breitbart because he thought he had a real money shot but thanks to a quick response the entire issue is becoming rather flacid. He might as well just take his balls and go home at this point because he's just beating the subject to death. There's nothing new coming out of weiner gate and nothing the least big incriminating (no stains on a blue dress so to speak).
You're still sore about the hillbilly comment, aren't you. ;]
| 190 |
Alexzander Tue, May 31, 2011 3:03:54pm |
re: #180 bloodstar
Spirit Group is not the anomaly; they are in it purely for the money and any suggestion of community values or commitment to the city is little more than PR.
Most professional sports are only a toxic mimic of actual community values.
| 191 |
abolitionist Tue, May 31, 2011 3:03:57pm |
re: #83 darthstar
Funny...my house just got appraised for 35K more than I paid for it in January...a 5% INCREASE in value - of course, that appraisal was done by the county and now they want an extra 350 dollars in property tax to go with it.
Increased assessments are sometimes appropriate, but often not. I think that a good way to limit abuses would be for the property owner to have the right, within some number of months following an increased assessment, to say SOLD --I accept your bid. A little negative feedback can work wonders in stabilizing things.
| 192 |
AK-47% Tue, May 31, 2011 3:04:01pm |
re: #184 Dreggas
you mean it's time to hit the ejac,, er, I mean eject button?
| 193 |
Alexzander Tue, May 31, 2011 3:04:23pm |
re: #181 windsagio
Can't complain too much, Seattle got their team actively stolen :p
You're in Seattle too?
| 195 |
windsagio Tue, May 31, 2011 3:05:15pm |
re: #193 Alexzander
Portland now, but I'm a Seattleite at heart. I'll be back soon enough :D
| 196 |
thatthatisis Tue, May 31, 2011 3:05:43pm |
re: #146 imp_62
I think many of the Tea Partiers don't really understand the issue at all. From what I can infer from what they say, they seem to think that raising the debt ceiling is the same as giving the federal government permission to spend more money next year.
They don't seem to realize that the raising the debt ceiling only applies to current expenditures and current/future liabilities which our government has incurred NOW.
Therefore, while the Bachmann's of this country seem to think voting against the debt ceiling will force prudence on Congress, it in fact means that we can't pay our bills. And that doesn't just mean stiffing China - it means anyone who owns T-bills won't get their interest income.
Since it seems too much to teach economics 101 in school anymore, could we at least start with Congress?
| 197 |
windsagio Tue, May 31, 2011 3:05:50pm |
re: #187 bloodstar
Gotta do what you can sometimes, I feel ya.
| 198 |
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Tue, May 31, 2011 3:05:54pm |
re: #189 imp_62
LOL not at all. I just love puns :)
| 199 |
makeitstopghazi Tue, May 31, 2011 3:06:04pm |
re: #188 Alouette
My son has started a new business, visit his store.
Boy, one of those chargers sure would be handy.
My birthday is coming up. Maybe I'll make a little suggestion to the wife.
| 200 |
watching you tiny alien kittens are Tue, May 31, 2011 3:06:05pm |
re: #162 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I think he's waiting for the Saddleback model.
Feed the kitty.
Kitty is fed, I singed a weiner for him.
/OMG I have become Breitbart!
| 201 |
shutdown Tue, May 31, 2011 3:06:57pm |
re: #196 thatthatisis
Goes back to:
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
| 202 |
Alexzander Tue, May 31, 2011 3:08:01pm |
re: #195 windsagio
Darn, both you and WindUpBird moved down to Portland.
| 203 |
windsagio Tue, May 31, 2011 3:09:35pm |
re: #202 Alexzander
Ya, kind of followed him down here to be honest. My heart will always be up there tho'.
| 204 |
shutdown Tue, May 31, 2011 3:10:03pm |
I am surprised that the debt ceiling issue has gotten any lift from mainstream GOP members at all. Because, if they managed to vote down an increase, the resulting economic nightmare will put Democrats in the White House for the next 20 years.
| 205 |
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Tue, May 31, 2011 3:10:31pm |
re: #192 ralphieboy
you mean it's time to hit the ejac,, er, I mean eject button?
yeah. If Breitbart and his minions keep flogging this weiner thing they'll wind up blind to the truth (not that they aren't already).
| 206 |
windsagio Tue, May 31, 2011 3:12:56pm |
re: #204 imp_62
I think they expect to lose, and can make a show of having made a stand against debt.
| 207 |
Alexzander Tue, May 31, 2011 3:13:50pm |
re: #203 windsagio
I've moved around a lot in the past two years - this is my second brief stint in Seattle but I dont have many friends here which I why I am always eager to meet people in meatspace. Oh well, one of these days. My heart is spread over three countries and two continents.
| 209 |
makeitstopghazi Tue, May 31, 2011 3:15:26pm |
re: #204 imp_62
I am surprised that the debt ceiling issue has gotten any lift from mainstream GOP members at all. Because, if they managed to vote down an increase, the resulting economic nightmare will put Democrats in the White House for the next 20 years.
Short-term thinking. It's all about winning the news cycle for them.
Consequences are for the little people.
/
| 210 |
shutdown Tue, May 31, 2011 3:15:55pm |
re: #206 windsagio
I think they expect to lose, and can make a show of having made a stand against debt.
It's a very dangerous game. Even the intimation that the US Government would seriously consider creating a potential default scenario could have a seriously, negative impact. Again, I don't think that we are in danger of defaulting on any outstanding debt if the ceiling is not raised; but the ability of the government to mit domestic mandates will be harmed.
| 212 |
windsagio Tue, May 31, 2011 3:17:21pm |
re: #210 imp_62
One of my fastest beliefs is that it's all politics to these guys, and has been for decades now.
They're willing to take that risk in order to chase the dream of the "Permanent Republican Majority"
| 213 |
shutdown Tue, May 31, 2011 3:17:22pm |
| 214 |
SpaceJesus Tue, May 31, 2011 3:18:25pm |
| 215 |
makeitstopghazi Tue, May 31, 2011 3:18:52pm |
re: #212 windsagio
One of my fastest beliefs is that it's all politics to these guys, and has been for decades now.
They're willing to take that risk in order to chase the dream of the "Permanent Republican Majority"
They all seem to have embraced the Trump Theory of Economics - that most economists 'aren't very smart.'
| 216 |
shutdown Tue, May 31, 2011 3:19:57pm |
re: #212 windsagio
One of my fastest beliefs is that it's all politics to these guys, and has been for decades now.
They're willing to take that risk in order to chase the dream of the "Permanent Republican Majority"
It is all summarized by the statements on the back of Palin's absurd bus.
Palin's Bus
| 217 |
shutdown Tue, May 31, 2011 3:21:01pm |
re: #214 SpaceJesus
Related:
God tells Bachmann: Run for POTUS
Yeah - looks like you lost your seat at the table!
| 218 |
windsagio Tue, May 31, 2011 3:21:14pm |
re: #216 imp_62
Except I think for a lot of them, "God" is code for "Us and people exactly like us"
| 219 |
Alexzander Tue, May 31, 2011 3:21:21pm |
Awkward question:
Am I the only one who thinks there might be some truth in the whole #weinergate story? I actually suspect he accidentally (drunkenly?) sent a message public-ally instead of privately.
I like Rep Weiner's politics; I still remember the first time I heard him argue infavor of "obamacare" and I was embarrassed no one else had made such a convincing case on the democractic side. But I'm a bit dismayed at the absolute certainty that both his defenders and detractors maintain on the whole boner story. But in the end its just that; a story about a boner.
| 221 |
shutdown Tue, May 31, 2011 3:22:36pm |
re: #218 windsagio
Except I think for a lot of them, "God" is code for "Us and people exactly like us"
Not quite... that is what "Nation" means. White folks with land. Just like God told the founders in 1776.
| 222 |
makeitstopghazi Tue, May 31, 2011 3:22:58pm |
re: #219 Alexzander
Awkward question:
Am I the only one who thinks there might be some truth in the whole #weinergate story? I actually suspect he accidentally (drunkenly?) sent a message public-ally instead of privately.I like Rep Weiner's politics; I still remember the first time I heard him argue infavor of "obamacare" and I was embarrassed no one else had made such a convincing case on the democractic side. But I'm a bit dismayed at the absolute certainty that both his defenders and detractors maintain on the whole boner story. But in the end its just that; a story about a boner.
Not to sound too tin foil hat-ty about it, but that's exactly what Breitbart is hoping for - to plant a seed of doubt (no pun intended this time).
| 225 |
shutdown Tue, May 31, 2011 3:24:31pm |
Going to spend some time with whatever members of my family are here. BBL
| 226 |
Alexzander Tue, May 31, 2011 3:25:27pm |
Thanks for the responses everyone. Maybe I am a little naive to Breitbart's ways.
| 227 |
darthstar Tue, May 31, 2011 3:25:52pm |
re: #219 Alexzander
Awkward question:
Am I the only one who thinks there might be some truth in the whole #weinergate story?
No...you have Breitbart on your side. //
Seriously...Weiner is far too smart and too aware of social media to engage in that kind of career killing behavior.
| 228 |
Targetpractice Tue, May 31, 2011 3:26:06pm |
So, what's the over/under on how many points the stock market plummets tomorrow if the GOP succeeds in voting down the new debt ceiling?
| 229 |
darthstar Tue, May 31, 2011 3:29:10pm |
re: #228 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
So, what's the over/under on how many points the stock market plummets tomorrow if the GOP succeeds in voting down the new debt ceiling?
What Boehner has succeeded in doing, by having a clean bill come to the floor for a vote, is boost the Democrats by allowing them to vote unanimously FOR protecting America's financial reputation while simultaneously making the Republican majority look foolish and unqualified for office by putting their hatred of the black guy in front of our economic stability.
This will be another item for Rachel Maddow to add to her "John Boehner is not very good at his job" segment...which grows by the week.
| 230 |
darthstar Tue, May 31, 2011 3:30:11pm |
re: #228 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
So, what's the over/under on how many points the stock market plummets tomorrow if the GOP succeeds in voting down the new debt ceiling?
Best case scenario: about half of the Republicans decide that the debt ceiling is important enough that they vote with the Democrats - handing Boehner yet another loss.
| 231 |
windsagio Tue, May 31, 2011 3:30:51pm |
re: #229 darthstar
It reads well with the base tho', and that's what's important (to him)
| 232 |
darthstar Tue, May 31, 2011 3:31:38pm |
re: #231 windsagio
It reads well with the base tho', and that's what's important (to him)
The base...if you ask me, the Republican party desperately needs a new base because the one they have can't hold up a house of cards.
| 233 |
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Tue, May 31, 2011 3:31:51pm |
re: #229 darthstar
looking over some of the language in the bill they may want to vote against it as well. The language reads as if the entire reason behind lifting the debt ceiling is the result of Obama's policies.
| 234 |
windsagio Tue, May 31, 2011 3:32:31pm |
re: #232 darthstar
Yes.
Politicians are creatures of habit tho', and it worked pretty well for a few decades.
| 235 |
Surabaya Stew Tue, May 31, 2011 3:32:41pm |
re: #226 Alexzander
Thanks for the responses everyone. Maybe I am a little naive to Breitbart's ways.
The man is a falsehood-spreading charlatan, to say the least. Us lizards don't think this based on one or two experiences, but rather a plethora of base and cowardly acts that Breibart has undertaken these past few years. The man has a past, and its not good...at all!
| 236 |
watching you tiny alien kittens are Tue, May 31, 2011 3:33:05pm |
Ahh, the intellectual brilliance of conversation available on yahoo answers...
[Matt]
Atheists! if the bible is not true why are there Christians?
[Angry Noodle]
" Christians! If the Koran isn't true, then why are there Muslims?"
[Matt]
the KORAN is not true.
Thank you for clearing all that up for me so succinctly Matt, you should really write a book on philosophy or something...
/sigh...
| 238 |
Ben G. Hazi Tue, May 31, 2011 3:34:27pm |
re: #221 imp_62
Not quite... that is what "Nation" means. White
folksmen with land. Just like God told the founders in 1776.
FTFY...
| 239 |
windsagio Tue, May 31, 2011 3:35:10pm |
re: #238 talon_262
well women aren't people anyways, so it was presumed :p
| 240 |
darthstar Tue, May 31, 2011 3:35:56pm |
re: #234 windsagio
Yes.
Politicians are creatures of habit tho', and it worked pretty well for a few decades.
So will a 1951 International pickup...but eventually it will need a new engine and it still won't be very comfortable on a crowded highway.
| 241 |
windsagio Tue, May 31, 2011 3:36:58pm |
re: #240 darthstar
Try telling the guy driving it tho', that's the problem :p
| 242 |
Surabaya Stew Tue, May 31, 2011 3:37:23pm |
re: #237 windsagio
"Angry noodle" is the best name ever.
Agreed; can we use it to name somebody who deserves to be mocked on a consistent basis? Or should it just be used as a generic insult? Perhaps I'm thinking about this all wrong, and it can be a name for a rock back or a creative artist's collective....
| 243 |
darthstar Tue, May 31, 2011 3:37:34pm |
re: #241 windsagio
Try telling the guy driving it tho', that's the problem :p
It gets me where I need to go...eventually. Yep. I do see the problem.
| 244 |
windsagio Tue, May 31, 2011 3:39:08pm |
re: #242 Surabaya Stew
The advantage is the multiple uses!
But yeah the next person with a good dose of outrage but not the nuts to back it up will be the 'angry noodle'.
| 245 |
Killgore Trout Tue, May 31, 2011 3:40:47pm |
To avoid another repeat of last night's frog noise extravaganza I decided maybe a deer chaser might help the frogs keep the noise down a bit. I spent all day driving around only to discover that nobody sells them in town. I'll see if I can build one from scratch before the sun goes down but that's pretty unlikely.
| 246 |
darthstar Tue, May 31, 2011 3:40:55pm |
re: #244 windsagio
The advantage is the multiple uses!
But yeah the next person with a good dose of outrage but not the nuts to back it up will be the 'angry noodle'.
My 12 year old nephew, speaking of nuts, says (when ordering at Starbucks) "extra whipped cream on my Frappachino, and I'd like to watch you pour the caramel over my nuts." Fucking hilarious. Gets some pretty strange looks from the people standing around, according to his father.
| 249 |
Surabaya Stew Tue, May 31, 2011 3:42:43pm |
re: #244 windsagio
The advantage is the multiple uses!
But yeah the next person with a good dose of outrage but not the nuts to back it up will be the 'angry noodle'.
Hey, thats a good description! It really could apply to multiple people, couldn't it? An adjective may be the best use for an "Angry Noodle", instead of a noun.
| 250 |
windsagio Tue, May 31, 2011 3:44:56pm |
re: #249 Surabaya Stew
trying to make that work in grammar, have an example?
(and I'll admit my first thought was this Noodle, but angrier)
| 251 |
Surabaya Stew Tue, May 31, 2011 3:45:59pm |
re: #247 windsagio
How'd we miss that?
Subconscious synchrsity? Suppressed meme? Ah, it was too good a term to stay unthought of....but perhaps Angry Noodle really didn't catch on because it hasn't found its right meaning yet. Any ideas as to what it could be?
| 252 |
windsagio Tue, May 31, 2011 3:48:26pm |
I think we have it pretty much nailed, The utterly outraged, yet spineless do-nothing, or a armchair warrior that gets off on anger.
| 253 |
watching you tiny alien kittens are Tue, May 31, 2011 3:49:31pm |
re: #228 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
So, what's the over/under on how many points the stock market plummets tomorrow if the GOP succeeds in voting down the new debt ceiling?
The immediate impact would be ugly. As investors fled Treasuries, the government's borrowing cost would skyrocket. Some of the fleeing investors would take money abroad, so the dollar would plummet. And these first-round effects would be trivial compared with the larger psychological impact, for even more than the Lehman Brothers crash of September 2008, a Treasury meltdown would cause cardiac arrest in the heart of the economy.
U.S. government securities are revered in the financial world as the risk-free asset. They are the modern equivalent of gold; they are the safe haven in times of trouble. Indeed, when Lehman imploded, capital flooded out of private-debt markets and into Treasuries; similarly, after the 9/11 attacks, Treasuries rallied briskly. But if China were to engineer an inverse crisis, in which the customary lifeboat became the source of the storm, a different order of panic might ensue. There would be nowhere to hide; nobody would trust anybody. When you hear that sober Wall Street types have stockpiled food and ammunition in hideouts in the deep woods, this is the Armageddon they imagine.
Think of it this way: for the past century or so, governments have been the ultimate guardians of their financial systems. They have guaranteed bank deposits, provided emergency lending when fearful citizens have hoarded cash and cleaned up disasters ranging from the savings-and-loan blowout of the 1980s to the wreckage of the recent crisis, in which it's becoming clear that the feds saved many more banks — both at home and abroad — than was realized. A crisis in the U.S. government-bond market would signify that the most powerful of all sovereigns had run into trouble. Who would then save the savior? The answer, perhaps, is no one.
[Link: www.time.com...]
A default on our debt would be fairly catastrophic...no doubt about that really. (The good news is that Japan has four times our debt when compared to GDP and is still fairly prosperous, we have not reached the end of the world...yet)
| 254 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, May 31, 2011 3:52:45pm |
re: #246 darthstar
My 12 year old nephew, speaking of nuts, says (when ordering at Starbucks) "extra whipped cream on my Frappachino, and I'd like to watch you pour the caramel over my nuts." Fucking hilarious. Gets some pretty strange looks from the people standing around, according to his father.
| 255 |
Surabaya Stew Tue, May 31, 2011 3:53:03pm |
re: #250 windsagio
trying to make that work in grammar, have an example?
(and I'll admit my first thought was this Noodle, but angrier)
Well as an insult it could be used like "Politician X is a such an Angry Noodle, he talks big and angry, but then has no specifics to back his talk up."
Were a specific person crowned with it (such as Andrew Breibart), his name could just be substituted like:
"Guess what fake scandal Breibart come up with today?"
"What, another "Weiner" pic?"
"Yeah, Angry Noodle is really scraping the bottom of the barrel now!
Or perhaps something else. The point is to keep on using it and seeing that others use Angry Noodle too. Just like Spreading Santorum....
| 256 |
makeitstopghazi Tue, May 31, 2011 3:58:00pm |
OT: I was just reading about Palin's little bus tour, and a thought occurred to me.
From all indications, the tab for this junket/family vacation/whatever is being picked up by SarahPac, her political action committee.
But didn't Christine O'Donnell catch some flack for spending campaign contributions on personal expenses at some point.
So... what's the dif? Why would O'Donnell get into trouble for spending campaign contributions, while Palin tricks out her bus with the the trappings of a campaign vehicle - for what she's claiming is an innocent family vacation?
| 257 |
albusteve Tue, May 31, 2011 3:58:59pm |
re: #256 makeitstop
OT: I was just reading about Palin's little bus tour, and a thought occurred to me.
From all indications, the tab for this junket/family vacation/whatever is being picked up by SarahPac, her political action committee.
But didn't Christine O'Donnell catch some flack for spending campaign contributions on personal expenses at some point.
So... what's the dif? Why would O'Donnell get into trouble for spending campaign contributions, while Palin tricks out her bus with the the trappings of a campaign vehicle - for what she's claiming is an innocent family vacation?
that would be John Edwards, the Darling of Donkdom
| 258 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, May 31, 2011 3:59:43pm |
re: #256 makeitstop
I think O'donnell spent it on rent and the sort. Not office space rent, just rent. And new witchcraft stuff.
/
| 259 |
makeitstopghazi Tue, May 31, 2011 4:00:55pm |
| 260 |
darthstar Tue, May 31, 2011 4:02:04pm |
re: #256 makeitstop
OT: I was just reading about Palin's little bus tour, and a thought occurred to me.
From all indications, the tab for this junket/family vacation/whatever is being picked up by SarahPac, her political action committee.
But didn't Christine O'Donnell catch some flack for spending campaign contributions on personal expenses at some point.
So... what's the dif? Why would O'Donnell get into trouble for spending campaign contributions, while Palin tricks out her bus with the the trappings of a campaign vehicle - for what she's claiming is an innocent family vacation?
It's not a campaign contribution if she's not actually running for office. It's a "Political Action Committee" and her family is a political action.
I feel sorry for Christine O'Donnell...she's just out there, adrift, with nobody paying attention to her. She's probably calling up stalking old boyfriends right now.
| 261 |
albusteve Tue, May 31, 2011 4:02:27pm |
| 262 |
theheat Tue, May 31, 2011 4:02:46pm |
re: #256 makeitstop
I don't think any of SarahPac cares what she does with the money. If they cared, they would rather have lit the money on fire, or better sent it to an orphanage, than use it to advance her agenda. Clearly, as long as the money's being used to spread SP's gospel, they're cool with it.
| 263 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, May 31, 2011 4:03:40pm |
| 264 |
darthstar Tue, May 31, 2011 4:03:45pm |
Vortex of stupid in New York tonight.
Sarah Palin plans to meet Tuesday night with Donald Trump in New York City, according to sources close to Trump.
Of course...sources close to Trump could refer to the gerbil that currently lives on top of his head.
| 265 |
windsagio Tue, May 31, 2011 4:03:57pm |
re: #262 theheat
She's always pretty much wanted to treat her PAC money as personal funds, hasn't she?
| 266 |
darthstar Tue, May 31, 2011 4:04:47pm |
re: #265 windsagio
She's always pretty much wanted to treat her PAC money as personal funds, hasn't she?
It's a living.
| 267 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, May 31, 2011 4:06:17pm |
re: #266 darthstar
It's a living.
We should do the same thing. You, quick, make up some fancy fliers. I'll make some drinks!!
/
| 268 |
darthstar Tue, May 31, 2011 4:06:18pm |
re: #265 windsagio
She's always pretty much wanted to treat her PAC money as personal funds, hasn't she?
I'm hoping she finds herself in a big IRS audit mess in about three to five years, and that whatever remaining money she has goes to lawyers, before she gets the courtesy 30 month stint at a minimum security facility while the Todd takes care of the kids.
| 269 |
darthstar Tue, May 31, 2011 4:06:41pm |
re: #267 Cannadian Club Akbar
We should do the same thing. You, quick, make up some fancy fliers. I'll make some drinks!!
/
You always make the drinks, but you never bring them to the table.
| 270 |
theheat Tue, May 31, 2011 4:06:57pm |
re: #265 windsagio
I think a lot of them use it like their private stash, actually. Sort of the like the prosperity Christian ministers that live extremely well. Thing is, the people giving the money really don't seem to care, so it isn't as if they feel fleeced. So, unless it's illegal, who's going to raise a stink?
| 271 |
makeitstopghazi Tue, May 31, 2011 4:07:17pm |
re: #261 albusteve
irrelevant on this thread?...now for once that's a bit funny
I still don't get where you're going, Steve.
You called Edwards someone's 'darling.' My garbage man is more relevant to my life than John Edwards. Of course, I'm only one person in 'Donkdom' (whatever that is), so he might be somebody's darling somewhere.
Mine? Not so much.
| 272 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, May 31, 2011 4:07:47pm |
re: #269 darthstar
You always make the drinks, but you never bring them to the table.
You know how it is. You run into some chatty person in the kitchen...
| 273 |
makeitstopghazi Tue, May 31, 2011 4:08:08pm |
re: #263 Cannadian Club Akbar
If Sarah has a 501C or 503C or whatever, she can spend it on political stuff. We can start a PAC and as long as we are promoting a political agenda, we can pay OURSELVES, iirc.
But isn't she claiming that this is just a family vacation, seeing the sites, hitting the open road for a few laughs?
| 274 |
albusteve Tue, May 31, 2011 4:08:16pm |
re: #270 theheat
I think a lot of them use it like their private stash, actually. Sort of the like the prosperity Christian ministers that live extremely well. Thing is, the people giving the money really don't seem to care, so it isn't as if they feel fleeced. So, unless it's illegal, who's going to raise a stink?
LGF commenters....she drives em nuts, just her intention
| 275 |
theheat Tue, May 31, 2011 4:08:27pm |
re: #268 darthstar
Never. Gonna. Happen.
Hell, the ones they know ratholed hundreds of thousands of dollars rarely go the the Big House. I know a criminal that stole millions, and it's taken the Feds more than 20 years to lift a finger about it.
| 276 |
windsagio Tue, May 31, 2011 4:08:59pm |
re: #271 makeitstop
its funny 'cuz I thought he said 'dorkdom', which arguably made more sense :D
| 277 |
makeitstopghazi Tue, May 31, 2011 4:09:13pm |
re: #264 darthstar
Vortex of stupid in New York tonight.
Of course...sources close to Trump could refer to the gerbil that currently lives on top of his head.
Trump better keep an eye on the towels and the silverware.
| 278 |
albusteve Tue, May 31, 2011 4:09:28pm |
re: #271 makeitstop
I still don't get where you're going, Steve.
You called Edwards someone's 'darling.' My garbage man is more relevant to my life than John Edwards. Of course, I'm only one person in 'Donkdom' (whatever that is), so he might be somebody's darling somewhere.
Mine? Not so much.
who cares what you get....whatever you consider relevant is irrelevant itself
| 279 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, May 31, 2011 4:09:52pm |
re: #273 makeitstop
But isn't she claiming that this is just a family vacation, seeing the sites, hitting the open road for a few laughs?
I honestly don't know. I think she is just saying it's a vacation but then she can say that everyone knew what she was doing.
| 280 |
windsagio Tue, May 31, 2011 4:09:56pm |
Steve, you're being a little transparent in your fight-picking again :P
| 281 |
windsagio Tue, May 31, 2011 4:10:21pm |
re: #279 Cannadian Club Akbar
Its probably come up before, but whats the consensus on her running?
| 282 |
makeitstopghazi Tue, May 31, 2011 4:10:24pm |
re: #278 albusteve
who cares what you get...whatever you consider relevant is irrelevant itself
Got it. You go on with your bad contrarian self, then.
| 283 |
albusteve Tue, May 31, 2011 4:10:33pm |
re: #280 windsagio
Steve, you're being a little transparent in your fight-picking again :P
I'm posting, not fighting...get a clue
| 284 |
theheat Tue, May 31, 2011 4:11:08pm |
re: #277 makeitstop
Trump's personal style always struck me as Gilt 80's. Pure cheese. Unless another person who likes really expensive tacky shit takes a fancy to his stuff, I don't think a lot of his stuff (other than cash) has much allure.
| 285 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, May 31, 2011 4:11:28pm |
re: #281 windsagio
Its probably come up before, but whats the consensus on her running?
I consider her as running. Not sure if she's announced. I think she is gonna soon if she didn't already.
| 286 |
albusteve Tue, May 31, 2011 4:11:36pm |
re: #282 makeitstop
Got it. You go on with your bad contrarian self, then.
I'm simply stating facts....nothing personal
| 287 |
darthstar Tue, May 31, 2011 4:12:43pm |
re: #277 makeitstop
Trump better keep an eye on the towels and the silverware.
THAT would be funny...because Trump is as white trashy as Palin is, so if she did steal an ashtray or a towel, he'd be all over the TV saying, "That b***h has sticky fingers!" The feud between them would be a distraction that would last for at least four or five seasons on some network as a reality TV show...culminating in his marrying Bristol when she turned 26.
| 289 |
makeitstopghazi Tue, May 31, 2011 4:13:10pm |
re: #286 albusteve
I'm simply stating facts...nothing personal
Sure. No worries. I'm out to dinner in a bit. Looking forward to that.
| 290 |
windsagio Tue, May 31, 2011 4:13:21pm |
re: #285 Cannadian Club Akbar
Last I heard she 'hadn't decided' but I doubt anyone believes that ;)
| 291 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, May 31, 2011 4:13:35pm |
re: #287 darthstar
THAT would be funny...because Trump is as white trashy as Palin is, so if she did steal an ashtray or a towel, he'd be all over the TV saying, "That b***h has sticky fingers!" The feud between them would be a distraction that would last for at least four or five seasons on some network as a reality TV show...culminating in his marrying Bristol when she turned 26.
With a prenup. Don't forget the prenup.
| 292 |
theheat Tue, May 31, 2011 4:14:07pm |
re: #290 windsagio
Palin/Bachmann 2012. The Sharpie Sisters. Because God told them to.
| 293 |
darthstar Tue, May 31, 2011 4:14:56pm |
re: #291 Cannadian Club Akbar
With a prenup. Don't forget the prenup.
That could extend the series and delay the wedding until she's 30.
| 294 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, May 31, 2011 4:15:01pm |
re: #290 windsagio
Last I heard she 'hadn't decided' but I doubt anyone believes that ;)
I've decided not to run only because the language I use would make Trump look like a fucking nun.
| 295 |
prairiefire Tue, May 31, 2011 4:15:08pm |
re: #287 darthstar
THAT would be funny...because Trump is as white trashy as Palin is, so if she did steal an ashtray or a towel, he'd be all over the TV saying, "That b***h has sticky fingers!" The feud between them would be a distraction that would last for at least four or five seasons on some network as a reality TV show...culminating in his marrying Bristol when she turned 26.
I bet the Palins will be expecting comps at the casinos.
I was hoping Sarah would provide some more entertainment. First Family Of Real Americans Great Summer Bus Vacation.
| 296 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, May 31, 2011 4:15:40pm |
re: #293 darthstar
That could extend the series and delay the wedding until she's 30.
Meh, to old at that point.:)
| 297 |
darthstar Tue, May 31, 2011 4:17:03pm |
re: #295 prairiefire
I bet the Palins will be expecting comps at the casinos.
I was hoping Sarah would provide some more entertainment. First Family Of Real Americans Great Summer Bus Vacation.
Watch them trash the presidential suite...tonight, on The Learning Channel.
| 298 |
Ming Tue, May 31, 2011 4:18:01pm |
re: #292 theheat
How about Palin for President, with Kate Gosselin as her running mate? The reality TV ticket!
| 299 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, May 31, 2011 4:18:49pm |
re: #297 darthstar
Watch them trash the presidential suite...tonight, on
The Learning ChannelSPIKE TV.
FTFY
| 300 |
prairiefire Tue, May 31, 2011 4:19:31pm |
re: #292 theheat
Palin/Bachmann 2012. The Sharpie Sisters. Because God told them to.
She wrote on her hand for a motorcycle rally.
| 301 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, May 31, 2011 4:20:02pm |
re: #286 albusteve
I'm simply stating facts...nothing personal
Interesting that it was a Democratic administration's Justice Department that greenlighted the prosecution of Edwards, one of their own. Interesting because Independent Council Fitzgerald claimed that he was actively obstructed by the Bush administration during his investigation of the outing of Valerie Plame.
Just stating facts.
| 302 |
wrenchwench Tue, May 31, 2011 4:20:03pm |
House Republicans have engineered the defeat of their own proposed $2.4 trillion increase in the debt limit, a political gambit designed to reinforce a demand for spending cuts to accompany any future increase in government borrowing.The vote Tuesday was 97-318, far below the two-thirds majority needed for passage.
Republicans signaled well in advance that the debt limit vote was political theater and did not portend a final refusal to grant an increase.
[....]
| 303 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, May 31, 2011 4:20:06pm |
re: #300 prairiefire
She wrote on her hand for a motorcycle rally.
I do the same when going to Taco Bell.
| 304 |
researchok Tue, May 31, 2011 4:20:42pm |
WAPO
House defeats proposal to raise debt limit
Setting the stage for a long summer of heated negotiations, the House overwhelmingly rejected a proposal Tuesday that would increase the nation’s ability to borrow money without also making major cuts in federal spending.
The 317-to-98 vote was a bipartisan rejection of extending the nation’s current debt limit of $14.3 trillion unless major spending reductions accompany the legislation lifting the ceiling. Every Republican voted against the plan, joined by 81 Democrats.
| 305 |
wrenchwench Tue, May 31, 2011 4:20:43pm |
re: #303 Cannadian Club Akbar
I do the same when going to Taco Bell.
Palin lets you write on her hand?
| 307 |
albusteve Tue, May 31, 2011 4:21:09pm |
re: #301 goddamnedfrank
Interesting that it was a Democratic administration's Justice Department that greenlighted the prosecution of Edwards, one of their own. Interesting because Independent Council Fitzgerald claimed that he was actively obstructed by the Bush administration during his investigation of the outing of Valerie Plame.
Just stating facts.
karma
| 309 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, May 31, 2011 4:21:35pm |
re: #305 wrenchwench
Palin lets you write on her hand?
She always forgets the sides of sour cream with me Meximelts.
| 310 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, May 31, 2011 4:23:35pm |
| 311 |
Targetpractice Tue, May 31, 2011 4:24:01pm |
re: #302 wrenchwench
So they set up a bill, knowing it's going to fail, just to get a talking point going. Oh yeah, the "adults" are truly back in charge. *rolls eyes*
| 312 |
theheat Tue, May 31, 2011 4:24:51pm |
re: #298 Ming
Meh. They're both so empty between the ears and reactionary, they really sicken me more than anything else. I find practically everything about them revolting at a cellular level.
But I'm in work mode the past few days, buckle down make some money mode, so I'm not gonna let a couple of hysterical fundies that share makeup tips rain on my parade.
| 313 |
albusteve Tue, May 31, 2011 4:24:57pm |
re: #304 researchok
WAPO
another day, another dollar...nice to know our reps are up to all the posturing, instead of actually accomplishing anything
| 314 |
researchok Tue, May 31, 2011 4:26:25pm |
re: #313 albusteve
another day, another dollar...nice to know our reps are up to all the posturing, instead of actually accomplishing anything
To paraphrase, why should this day be different than any other day?
| 315 |
albusteve Tue, May 31, 2011 4:27:03pm |
re: #310 goddamnedfrank
If Republican's believed in karma they wouldn't advocate torture.
the unique deal with karma is it takes care of itself....just wait til the bill comes due with regard to their positions on gays and women
| 316 |
Kragar Tue, May 31, 2011 4:27:32pm |
| 317 |
darthstar Tue, May 31, 2011 4:31:10pm |
re: #298 Ming
How about Palin for President, with Kate Gosselin as her running mate? The reality TV ticket!
Kim Kardashian could be Secretary of State (But I don't even type!)
Rod Blagojevic as Secretary of Defense (I'm not guilty! - no Rod, not that kind of defense)
...feel free to fill in the rest of the cabinet...
| 318 |
Ben G. Hazi Tue, May 31, 2011 4:31:49pm |
re: #221 imp_62
Not quite... that is what "Nation" means. White
folksmen with land. Just like God told the founders in 1776.
FTFY...
| 319 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, May 31, 2011 4:32:05pm |
re: #317 darthstar
Kim Kardashian could be Secretary of State (But I don't even type!)
Rod Blagojevic as Secretary of Defense (I'm not guilty! - no Rod, not that kind of defense)
...feel free to fill in the rest of the cabinet...
Woody Allen- Department of Family Services?
| 322 |
Kragar Tue, May 31, 2011 4:37:28pm |
re: #317 darthstar
Kim Kardashian could be Secretary of State (But I don't even type!)
Rod Blagojevic as Secretary of Defense (I'm not guilty! - no Rod, not that kind of defense)
...feel free to fill in the rest of the cabinet...
Snooki for head of the CDC
| 323 |
darthstar Tue, May 31, 2011 4:39:09pm |
re: #322 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Snooki for head of the CDC
Good choice...she knows all about infections.
| 324 |
Dancing along the light of day Tue, May 31, 2011 4:46:24pm |
| 325 |
darthstar Tue, May 31, 2011 4:46:49pm |
| 326 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, May 31, 2011 4:53:14pm |
Sorry it took me so long to get in here (PC froze) but I do need to say that I would have voted the same way as Bachmann on this bill. I oppose a 'clean' raising of the debt ceiling. Tying an increase to spending constraints is key to bring the budget under control. I don't want a default, but Republicans can't role over on this either.
| 327 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, May 31, 2011 4:54:40pm |
re: #317 darthstar
Kim Kardashian could be Secretary of State (But I don't even type!)
Rod Blagojevic as Secretary of Defense (I'm not guilty! - no Rod, not that kind of defense)
...feel free to fill in the rest of the cabinet...
Well, other than the fact that Blago is a Democrat, I'd nominate him as an ambassador to a country we don't like. He's a big enough asshole to make our displease known just by being there.
| 328 |
darthstar Tue, May 31, 2011 4:55:01pm |
re: #326 Dark_Falcon
Sorry it took me so long to get in here (PC froze) but I do need to say that I would have voted the same way as Bachmann on this bill. I oppose a 'clean' raising of the debt ceiling. Tying an increase to spending constraints is key to bring the budget under control. I don't want a default, but Republicans can't role over on this either.
Roll over...nobody's asking them to roll over. They're only being asked to be honest and approach the discussion in a mature matter. The Democrats have proved time and again that they're willing to compromise. Until the GOP stops seeing "giving an inch" as "rolling over" they'll never be a serious part of our government again.
| 329 |
Charles Johnson Tue, May 31, 2011 4:55:35pm |
And by the way, the only reason this vote even happened was because Republicans wanted to score some political points and try to embarrass Democrats. It's a political stunt staged by a party that's bankrupt of real ideas.
| 330 |
Charles Johnson Tue, May 31, 2011 4:57:39pm |
re: #326 Dark_Falcon
Sorry it took me so long to get in here (PC froze) but I do need to say that I would have voted the same way as Bachmann on this bill. I oppose a 'clean' raising of the debt ceiling. Tying an increase to spending constraints is key to bring the budget under control. I don't want a default, but Republicans can't role over on this either.
This is absolutely the wrong place to make a stand like that. You don't threaten to burn the house down to get someone to pay their utility bill.
| 331 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, May 31, 2011 5:00:03pm |
re: #328 darthstar
Roll over...nobody's asking them to roll over. They're only being asked to be honest and approach the discussion in a mature matter. The Democrats have proved time and again that they're willing to compromise. Until the GOP stops seeing "giving an inch" as "rolling over" they'll never be a serious part of our government again.
I don't see 'giving an inch' as 'rolling over' and I thought I'd have proved that by now. During the budget battle in March and April I repeatedly made clear that I thought a shutdown was a bad idea, and I very much wanted a compromise. But Obama wanted to divorce the spending debate from raising the debt ceiling and this vote was intended to make plain to him that he will not be able to do that. This vote is a prelude to talks, not a refusal to engage in them.
| 332 |
Shiplord Kirel Tue, May 31, 2011 5:00:35pm |
40% chance of rain in Lubbock tonight. Our prayers will be answered.
Specifically, I prayed to Cthulhu to send a deluge to smite the local leadership and media for delivering the city into the hands of the Tea Party. I promised the Old One some local bureaucrats as luncheon guests if he, er, it comes through.
| 333 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, May 31, 2011 5:01:08pm |
re: #326 Dark_Falcon
Sorry it took me so long to get in here (PC froze) but I do need to say that I would have voted the same way as Bachmann on this bill. I oppose a 'clean' raising of the debt ceiling. Tying an increase to spending constraints is key to bring the budget under control. I don't want a default, but Republicans can't role over on this either.
Playing games by threatening solder's pay, is nothing beneath you?
"If we hit the borrowing wall traveling at full speed, the U.S. government's total outlays--a complex amalgam that includes everything from Social Security benefits to soldiers' pay to interest on the national debt -- will have to drop by about 40% immediately," Blinder writes. "That translates to roughly $1.5 trillion at annual rates, or about 10% of GDP. That's an enormous fiscal contraction for any economy to withstand, never mind one in a sluggish recovery with 9% unemployment." The ripple effects of a massive, abrupt drop in spending would likely exacerbate the debt problem -- for as the economy spiraled downward, and revenue tanked, it would leave the government less and less choice but to default anyhow.
| 334 |
Obdicut Tue, May 31, 2011 5:01:52pm |
re: #331 Dark_Falcon
Raising to the debt ceiling is paying existing debts. It has to happen.
So any posturing of this sort is just that. Posturing. Or blackmail, against the US.
It is not responsible.
| 335 |
reine.de.tout Tue, May 31, 2011 5:03:32pm |
re: #332 Shiplord Kirel
40% chance of rain in Lubbock tonight. Our prayers will be answered.
Specifically, I prayed to Cthulhu to send a deluge to smite the local leadership and media for delivering the city into the hands of the Tea Party. I promised the Old One some local bureaucrats as luncheon guests if he, er, it comes through.
Well, then - do some of that prayin' for Baton Rouge, please. We are about as dry as I can remember - and can't move that water from the river to our yards. We need some RAIN! A whole day of it, if possible. Thank you in advance . . .
| 336 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, May 31, 2011 5:04:03pm |
re: #335 reine.de.tout
Well, then - do some of that prayin' for Baton Rouge, please. We are about as dry as I can remember - and can't move that water from the river to our yards. We need some RAIN! A whole day of it, if possible. Thank you in advance . . .
Sending all the rain in Michigan over to you.
| 337 |
Charles Johnson Tue, May 31, 2011 5:04:19pm |
re: #334 Obdicut
Raising to the debt ceiling is paying existing debts. It has to happen.
So any posturing of this sort is just that. Posturing. Or blackmail, against the US.
It is not responsible.
Absolutely -- the Republican Party is blatantly holding the nation's economy hostage, to push a crazed far right agenda of slashing social programs and handing windfalls to their corporate masters.
| 338 |
Decatur Deb Tue, May 31, 2011 5:06:56pm |
re: #337 Charles
Absolutely -- the Republican Party is blatantly holding the nation's economy hostage, to push a crazed far right agenda of slashing social programs and handing windfalls to their corporate masters.
But..but... they're the patriotic party.
They never forget their flag pins.
| 339 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, May 31, 2011 5:10:08pm |
re: #337 Charles
Absolutely -- the Republican Party is blatantly holding the nation's economy hostage, to push a crazed far right agenda of slashing social programs and handing windfalls to their corporate masters.
And I say again that I think that's baloney. The GOP is doing what it needs to do. The debt ceiling does need to be raised, but first we need to established a plan for getting spending under control to reduce the need for borrowing in the future. Otherwise nothing will get done. The GOP has to stand its ground on spending and such a position does carry risks. But keeping America from going bankrupt requires those risks be run.
| 340 |
Ben G. Hazi Tue, May 31, 2011 5:12:01pm |
re: #329 Charles
And by the way, the only reason this vote even happened was because Republicans wanted to score some political points and try to embarrass Democrats. It's a political stunt staged by a party that's bankrupt of real ideas.
It's political and economic extortion, pure and simple. The GOP House leadership has to know exactly what a default will do to the US and world economies, which is why they're doing it. The GOP doesn't have control of the Senate, but they can stall this in the House in hopes of extracting deals on the reconciliation bill, most of which will likely be unreasonable, from the Dems in exchange for passage.
In any case, they'll most assuredly blame any fallout on President Obama and the Senate Dems, no doubt.
| 341 |
Obdicut Tue, May 31, 2011 5:13:07pm |
re: #339 Dark_Falcon
Do you honestly think the GOP is taking some principled and responsible plan here? That Bachmann is?
| 342 |
Charles Johnson Tue, May 31, 2011 5:13:52pm |
re: #339 Dark_Falcon
And I say again that I think that's baloney. The GOP is doing what it needs to do. The debt ceiling does need to be raised, but first we need to established a plan for getting spending under control to reduce the need for borrowing in the future. Otherwise nothing will get done. The GOP has to stand its ground on spending and such a position does carry risks. But keeping America from going bankrupt requires those risks be run.
The GOP could not possibly care less about America "going bankrupt," and the very idea that this is about to happen is pure propaganda.
The GOP is focused like a laser beam on their agenda of radical social engineering. It has nothing at all to do with fiscal issues. Newt Gingrich actually told the truth when he pointed this out.
| 343 |
recusancy Tue, May 31, 2011 5:14:57pm |
re: #342 Charles
The GOP could not possibly care less about America "going bankrupt," and the very idea that this is about to happen is pure propaganda.
The GOP is focused like a laser beam on their agenda of radical social engineering. It has nothing at all to do with fiscal issues. Newt Gingrich actually told the truth when he pointed this out.
This.
| 344 |
recusancy Tue, May 31, 2011 5:15:28pm |
re: #339 Dark_Falcon
And I say again that I think that's baloney. The GOP is doing what it needs to do. The debt ceiling does need to be raised, but first we need to established a plan for getting spending under control to reduce the need for borrowing in the future. Otherwise nothing will get done. The GOP has to stand its ground on spending and such a position does carry risks. But keeping America from going bankrupt requires those risks be run.
Do you think we are about to go bankrupt?
| 345 |
b_snark Tue, May 31, 2011 5:15:47pm |
re: #339 Dark_Falcon
And I say again that I think that's baloney. The GOP is doing what it needs to do. The debt ceiling does need to be raised, but first we need to established a plan for getting spending under control to reduce the need for borrowing in the future. Otherwise nothing will get done. The GOP has to stand its ground on spending and such a position does carry risks. But keeping America from going bankrupt requires those risks be run.
What does defunding women's programs like those implemented by Planned Parenthood have to do with rational spending cuts?
| 346 |
watching you tiny alien kittens are Tue, May 31, 2011 5:16:48pm |
After seeing the success of the Maybach line of cars amongst the super rich I have decided to launch my own line to compete with them.
I plan to furnish my cars only with the finest pre-born calves leather, hardwoods exclusively stolen from U.N. protected old growth forests and then polished by hand with baby seal skin shammies. The hand woven carpets made of genuine Chinese Giant Panda fur by Persian artisans in Waziristan will make it absolutely the must have and premiere car for the jet set wanna-be.
Pre-orders start at $1,850,000.00 order yours today!
(Note: Chrysler K car salvaged from a junkyard and given a new fiberglass body, however the interior will be breathtaking!)
| 347 |
jamesfirecat Tue, May 31, 2011 5:17:47pm |
re: #339 Dark_Falcon
And I say again that I think that's baloney. The GOP is doing what it needs to do. The debt ceiling does need to be raised, but first we need to established a plan for getting spending under control to reduce the need for borrowing in the future. Otherwise nothing will get done. The GOP has to stand its ground on spending and such a position does carry risks. But keeping America from going bankrupt requires those risks be run.
Dark we don't need to get spending under control we need to get unemployment under control.
Once we've done that, and gotten unemployment back down to around 6.5% or so and are no longer in danger of going into a recession than we can cut back on stimulus spending and also we'll have more money to work with because people who don't have jobs don't have the money they would have made to spend thus generating more tax revenue for our economy either through sales tax or income tax.
As long as the Average man in the street of America is doing fine we'll either naturally make enough money to buy down the deficit or be such an economic juggernought that no one will worry that our economy will keel over and die and that we wouldn't be able to pay back our loans....
| 348 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, May 31, 2011 5:17:57pm |
re: #341 Obdicut
Do you honestly think the GOP is taking some principled and responsible plan here? That Bachmann is?
Yes, I do. I think this is a problem that needs solving and to ignore it further is to court disaster. If now's not the right to time to discuss it, then when? When the 2012 budget is debated? Then liberals will say that the Republicans are holding money for social services at risk. At some point the risk of harm to the innocent simply has to be accepted or nothing will get done.
| 349 |
recusancy Tue, May 31, 2011 5:19:06pm |
re: #348 Dark_Falcon
Yes, I do. I think this is a problem that needs solving and to ignore it further is to court disaster. If now's not the right to time to discuss it, then when? When the 2012 budget is debated? Then liberals will say that the Republicans are holding money for social services at risk. At some point the risk of harm to the innocent simply has to be accepted or nothing will get done.
You want to talk about the debt? Start here.
| 350 |
celticdragon Tue, May 31, 2011 5:19:41pm |
re: #339 Dark_Falcon
And I say again that I think that's baloney. The GOP is doing what it needs to do. The debt ceiling does need to be raised, but first we need to established a plan for getting spending under control to reduce the need for borrowing in the future. Otherwise nothing will get done. The GOP has to stand its ground on spending and such a position does carry risks. But keeping America from going bankrupt requires those risks be run.
That is precisely what will not happen, since the GOP is not interested in anything except chopping taxes for the top 10 percent and keeping the rest of us fighting over God, gays and guns. The noise about "balanced budgets" is simply red meat for folks like you to keep on board. When you have served your purpose and voted for them, that will go out the fucking window just like 10 years ago when Dick Cheney bellowed "Reagan proved deficits don't matter!"
It is the old Dixie Reconstruction playbook on national scale. Keep the "white crackers" and the freed slaves are at each others throats instead of cooperating.
| 351 |
Interesting Times Tue, May 31, 2011 5:20:00pm |
re: #339 Dark_Falcon
But keeping America from going bankrupt requires those risks be run.
If this is so important to you, why are you ignoring a balanced budget plan that works much faster and much better than Paul Ryan's?
| 352 |
jamesfirecat Tue, May 31, 2011 5:20:32pm |
re: #348 Dark_Falcon
Yes, I do. I think this is a problem that needs solving and to ignore it further is to court disaster. If now's not the right to time to discuss it, then when? When the 2012 budget is debated? Then liberals will say that the Republicans are holding money for social services at risk. At some point the risk of harm to the innocent simply has to be accepted or nothing will get done.
Dark do you believe that the modern GOP is taking part in a "principled and responsible plan" in regards to the long term issue of AGW?
If you don't then why do you expect them to be "principled and responsible plan" in regards to other long term issues?
| 354 |
palomino Tue, May 31, 2011 5:23:22pm |
re: #352 jamesfirecat
Dark do you believe that the modern GOP is taking part in a "principled and responsible plan" in regards to the long term issue of AGW?
If you don't then why do you expect them to be "principled and responsible plan" in regards to other long term issues?
Good point. The only reason today's GOP cares about the deficit is that they got spooked by the tea party and a Dem is in the WH. Republicans didn't give a shit about debt from 2000-2006 when they controlled everything.
| 355 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, May 31, 2011 5:26:03pm |
re: #351 publicityStunted
If this is so important to you, why are you ignoring a balanced budget plan that works much faster and much better than Paul Ryan's?
From the Progressive Caucus. Really? LOL at the the very idea that those goofballs could put together an idea worth the paper its printed on.
| 356 |
jamesfirecat Tue, May 31, 2011 5:27:30pm |
re: #355 Dark_Falcon
From the Progressive Caucus. Really? LOL at the the very idea that those goofballs could put together an idea worth the paper its printed on.
Why don't you read it and then tell us what's wrong with it rather than indulging in an Ad Hominem attack against the source of the plan?
(Sorry Dark I calls em like I sees em...)
| 357 |
Kragar Tue, May 31, 2011 5:27:41pm |
re: #355 Dark_Falcon
From the Progressive Caucus. Really? LOL at the the very idea that those goofballs could put together an idea worth the paper its printed on.
So much for debating ideas on their merit and compromising.
| 358 |
Charles Johnson Tue, May 31, 2011 5:27:56pm |
re: #348 Dark_Falcon
At some point the risk of harm to the innocent simply has to be accepted or nothing will get done.
The Republican Party is not only "willing to risk harm to the innocent," that's the basis of their whole budget plan.
And at the same time, granting windfalls to big corporations and the very richest Americans.
| 359 |
b_snark Tue, May 31, 2011 5:28:35pm |
re: #355 Dark_Falcon
From the Progressive Caucus. Really? LOL at the the very idea that those goofballs could put together an idea worth the paper its printed on.
And the superficial, petty, socially damaging and religiously based cuts we've seen from the GOP are worth what, a short piss into the wind?
| 360 |
Ben G. Hazi Tue, May 31, 2011 5:29:10pm |
re: #339 Dark_Falcon
And I say again that I think that's baloney. The GOP is doing what it needs to do. The debt ceiling does need to be raised, but first we need to established a plan for getting spending under control to reduce the need for borrowing in the future. Otherwise nothing will get done. The GOP has to stand its ground on spending and such a position does carry risks. But keeping America from going bankrupt requires those risks be run.
Dark, use what good sense G-d gave ya and consider what the House GOP is attempting to do: to either force a default on the nation's debt or extorting dubious program cuts by holding up the debt ceiling increase. I don't ever recall things ever getting to this point; the GOP is trying to kill a fly by firing a HEAT round from an Abrams at it.. This IS extortion, in the purest sense of the word; I'm sure you know your Chicago history enough to know how that usually goes.
I agree, in principle, that there are federal programs that need to be gone over with a fine-toothed comb and trimmed/eliminated, but not without due diligence and without partisan shenanigans. At this point, that's a task I do not trust the GOP with...and barely trust the Dems with.
This GOP-manufactured fight is nothing more than a club to bash President Obama over the head come next year with if/when the economy goes in the shitter again due to the GOP's lust for power and near-criminal shortsightedness.
| 361 |
recusancy Tue, May 31, 2011 5:30:51pm |
re: #355 Dark_Falcon
From the Progressive Caucus. Really? LOL at the the very idea that those goofballs could put together an idea worth the paper its printed on.
And there you have it.
| 362 |
Interesting Times Tue, May 31, 2011 5:32:12pm |
re: #355 Dark_Falcon
From the Progressive Caucus. Really? LOL at the the very idea that those goofballs could put together an idea worth the paper its printed on.
LOL at the very idea the GOP has credibility on "fiscal conservatism".
No, seriously. There's no intellectually honest way you could ever justify and explain-away what that chart shows.
| 363 |
bratwurst Tue, May 31, 2011 5:34:59pm |
re: #362 publicityStunted
LOL at the very idea the GOP has credibility on "fiscal conservatism".
No, seriously. There's no intellectually honest way you could ever justify and explain-away what that chart shows.
That chart is what you call a "meme buster" right there!
| 364 |
Kragar Tue, May 31, 2011 5:35:31pm |
Plus remember; jobs, jobs, jobs = Social Agenda
| 365 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, May 31, 2011 5:36:22pm |
re: #361 recusancy
And there you have it.
Yeah, you have a budget put together by a group that's never met a weapons system they were willing to fund and never a social program they wouldn't fund. That says all I need to know right there.
| 366 |
bratwurst Tue, May 31, 2011 5:37:12pm |
re: #364 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Plus remember; jobs, jobs, jobs = Social Agenda
Ok, well now I can hardly resist checking in to see how that job creation is going...
[Link: whenarethejobs.com...]
D'oh!
| 367 |
Obdicut Tue, May 31, 2011 5:37:14pm |
re: #348 Dark_Falcon
Yes, I do.
Why? Where has the GOP given any indication it actually takes economics seriously?
I think this is a problem that needs solving and to ignore it further is to court disaster.
But it's not a problem that's related to the debt. We have to pay. We can't default. So, if the GOP are responsible, the Democrats can just call their bluff. Your analysis doesn't really make sense; if the GOP are economically sane, then they're not actually holding a hostage, because they know the results of default and they won't go through with it.
If now's not the right to time to discuss it, then when?
It's always the time to discuss it. It just has nothing to do with raising the debt ceiling.
When the 2012 budget is debated?
Should we debate the budget when we debate the budget? Probably.
At some point the risk of harm to the innocent simply has to be accepted or nothing will get done.
What do you mean by 'risk of harm to the innocent', and what does accepting it entail?
| 368 |
jamesfirecat Tue, May 31, 2011 5:38:33pm |
re: #365 Dark_Falcon
Yeah, you have a budget put together by a group that's never met a weapons system they were willing to fund and never a social program they wouldn't fund. That says all I need to know right there.
Dark stop attacking the group, read the proposal and then critique the individual cuts they make instead of launching blanket attacks at the group responsible for it.
STEP UP YOUR GAME MAN!
I'm willing to cut you some slack because you're standing up for your beliefs and everyone here seems to be dog pilling you (myself included) but that is just all the more reason to clearly explain your positions rather than just making tautological points about how certain groups are silly therefore their ideas must be silly as well....
| 369 |
The Shadow Do Tue, May 31, 2011 5:38:35pm |
Michelle Bachman, what a maroon.
Also, can't spend your way to prosperity...
But more importantly, we are about to tip it up to decide the best of
The Beautiful Game
| 370 |
Obdicut Tue, May 31, 2011 5:39:50pm |
re: #369 The Shadow Do
Lots and lots of people have spent their way to prosperity by investing, actually. I've never understood that meme.
| 371 |
Renaissance_Man Tue, May 31, 2011 5:40:03pm |
re: #368 jamesfirecat
I'm willing to cut you some slack because you're standing up for your beliefs and everyone here seems to be dog pilling you (myself included) but that is just all the more reason to clearly explain your positions rather than just making tautological points about how certain groups are silly therefore their ideas must be silly as well...
Creationists are just standing up for their beliefs too. Doesn't make them based in fact.
| 373 |
The Shadow Do Tue, May 31, 2011 5:41:44pm |
re: #372 The Shadow Do
Government is really poor at the first and really good at the later
| 374 |
Obdicut Tue, May 31, 2011 5:41:53pm |
re: #372 The Shadow Do
Investing good, pissing away bad.
Sure. But 'You can't spend your way to prosperity' is about as wrong as a statement can get. The entirety of capitalism is basically spending your way to prosperity.
| 375 |
Ben G. Hazi Tue, May 31, 2011 5:42:52pm |
re: #355 Dark_Falcon
From the Progressive Caucus. Really? LOL at the the very idea that those goofballs could put together an idea worth the paper its printed on.
Have you even read it or are you just dismissing it out of hand, simply because it's from the Progressive Caucus? I'll be honest, I did (mostly) read it and there was a lot that made sense and sounded good to me, but I'm not all that crazy about the military cutbacks part of the plan; I'd have to see a lot more detailed stuff on that, to be sure.
| 376 |
Obdicut Tue, May 31, 2011 5:43:12pm |
re: #373 The Shadow Do
Government is really poor at the first and really good at the later
Actually, in some areas government is awesome at creating wealth, like in science research. In other areas, they're great at mitigating loss-- that's what welfare and associated programs do.
| 377 |
b_snark Tue, May 31, 2011 5:43:16pm |
Dark, admittedly I'm viewing the politics of the US from a foreign vantage point, and much of the information I get about US economics I get from this blog and others like it, but the steps I've seen taken by the current GOP seriously concern me.
Every thing I've seen in the GOP's solution to the US's economic woes has been primarily driven by the social conservative agenda, and consists of the very worst of the fiscal conservative worship of the free market, with no consideration given to the people being left behind. It is magical thinking to believe opening up the free markets completely will benefit everyone, rich and poor alike. Human psychology does not allow a situation where actions taken are due to global self interest. Most people do not take the time to think about what is best for them, they react emotionally based on whatever bias they grew up learning.
| 378 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, May 31, 2011 5:44:44pm |
re: #371 Renaissance_Man
Creationists are just standing up for their beliefs too. Doesn't make them based in fact.
There's a difference between budget matters and creationist controversies. The budget is clearly a matter for legitimate public debate, while teaching creationism in public schools raises a clear 1st Amendment issue. Hence one is clearly in bounds and the other clearly not.
| 379 |
ozbloke Tue, May 31, 2011 5:44:52pm |
How many times was the ceiling raised during George Bushes term?
Where were the spendthrifts then?
| 380 |
b_snark Tue, May 31, 2011 5:46:08pm |
re: #365 Dark_Falcon
Yeah, you have a budget put together by a group that's never met a weapons system they were willing to fund and never a social program they wouldn't fund. That says all I need to know right there.
Weapons are better than social programs?
Who is going to protect you from the resulting social unrest?
| 381 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, May 31, 2011 5:46:54pm |
re: #375 talon_262
Have you even read it or are you just dismissing it out of hand, simply because it's from the Progressive Caucus? I'll be honest, I did (mostly) read it and there was a lot that made sense and sounded good to me, but I'm not all that crazy about the military cutbacks part of the plan; I'd have to see a lot more detailed stuff on that, to be sure.
I dismissed it out of hand. National Review already reviewed it then panned it. I'm content to accept their analysis. It was the defense cuts, though, that set my mind in stone against it.
Also, I got someone with your nic who is following me on Twitter. Is that you?
| 382 |
jamesfirecat Tue, May 31, 2011 5:48:39pm |
re: #378 Dark_Falcon
There's a difference between budget matters and creationist controversies. The budget is clearly a matter for legitimate public debate, while teaching creationism in public schools raises a clear 1st Amendment issue. Hence one is clearly in bounds and the other clearly not.
That may be true Dark, but denying economic facts... is just as big a logically fallacy as denying the facts of carbon dating/the fossil record.
So please explain to us... what facts have you seen that the current GOP is fiscally serious rather than just trying to bash Obama with whatever club they can find?
| 383 |
Ben G. Hazi Tue, May 31, 2011 5:50:32pm |
re: #381 Dark_Falcon
Also, I got someone with your nic who is following me on Twitter. Is that you?
It would...added you and a few others yesterday. Click my avatar, then the Twitter button on my profile to verify, if you want.
| 384 |
Obdicut Tue, May 31, 2011 5:51:09pm |
re: #378 Dark_Falcon
Dark, if you really think the GOP are economically responsible, then any threat to not raise the debt limit is false. Any conditions they impose are false, since-- if they are economically insane-- they couldn't let default occur.
So what exactly are they doing by threatening default?
| 385 |
The Shadow Do Tue, May 31, 2011 5:52:35pm |
re: #374 Obdicut
Sure. But 'You can't spend your way to prosperity' is about as wrong as a statement can get. The entirety of capitalism is basically spending your way to prosperity.
that thought carried to a logical conclusion would indicate a need to spend enormous amounts of money in order to create an ever growing prosperity. Productivity be damned, no?
I doubt you are arguing for unbridled government expenditure, though I could be wrong...
| 386 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, May 31, 2011 5:52:48pm |
re: #384 Obdicut
So what exactly are they doing by threatening default?
Playing chicken with soldier's pay.
| 387 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, May 31, 2011 5:53:00pm |
re: #383 talon_262
It would...added you and a few others yesterday. Click my avatar, then the Twitter button on my profile to verify, if you want.
Thanks. Given the Stalkers use of nicjacking, I have to be careful.
| 388 |
Dancing along the light of day Tue, May 31, 2011 5:54:30pm |
re: #387 Dark_Falcon
Thanks. Given the Stalkers use of nicjacking, I have to be careful.
They've gone beyond "nicjacking" they're doing avatars too.
Buncha sick f'ers. Be very careful, DF.
| 389 |
Obdicut Tue, May 31, 2011 5:56:11pm |
re: #385 The Shadow Do
that thought carried to a logical conclusion would indicate a need to spend enormous amounts of money in order to create an ever growing prosperity.
No, it doesn't. You're somehow not understanding.
Ways that you can spend your way to prosperity:
Spend money on the transcontinental railroad.
Spend money creating the internet.
Spend money on drug research.
Is this making any sense yet?
| 390 |
CuriousLurker Tue, May 31, 2011 5:57:12pm |
re: #383 talon_262
It would...added you and a few others yesterday. Click my avatar, then the Twitter button on my profile to verify, if you want.
It's really helpful that Charles added the Twitter button to our profiles. Makes it much easier to verify identity. Unless the member is actually a sock, but there's not much one can do about that.
| 391 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, May 31, 2011 5:58:39pm |
re: #381 Dark_Falcon
I dismissed it out of hand. National Review already reviewed it then panned it. I'm content to accept their analysis. It was the defense cuts, though, that set my mind in stone against it.
Such cognitive dissonance. Cut defense spending, which is 58% of the non-discretionary budget and you're reflexively against it, but threaten soldier's pay directly with a default, and you think that's good brinksmanship.
| 392 |
b_snark Tue, May 31, 2011 5:58:47pm |
re: #385 The Shadow Do
that thought carried to a logical conclusion would indicate a need to spend enormous amounts of money in order to create an ever growing prosperity. Productivity be damned, no?
I doubt you are arguing for unbridled government expenditure, though I could be wrong...
The economics used by the right demands an ever increasing population. I see a few problems with that.
| 393 |
Ben G. Hazi Tue, May 31, 2011 6:00:07pm |
re: #381 Dark_Falcon
I dismissed it out of hand. National Review already reviewed it then panned it. I'm content to accept their analysis. It was the defense cuts, though, that set my mind in stone against it.
So, you're basically saying that you're keeping a closed mind on any other budget plan (especially from the "other team"), aside from the "plan" the GOP is putting out (which isn't a real plan at all, but a lightly veiled attempt at economic and political extortion)?
| 394 |
Renaissance_Man Tue, May 31, 2011 6:00:34pm |
re: #378 Dark_Falcon
There's a difference between budget matters and creationist controversies. The budget is clearly a matter for legitimate public debate, while teaching creationism in public schools raises a clear 1st Amendment issue. Hence one is clearly in bounds and the other clearly not.
Budget matters are indeed a matter for legitimate public debate. You mistake me - you seem to think that I want to stifle budget debate in the same way that creationism should be prevented from being taught as fact. On the contrary; I want to see actual debate on budgetary matters of import. However, stating beliefs not based in fact and pretending that they should be taken seriously is not debate. Which is exactly what the GOP and yourself are doing.
Please, by all means, debate budget matters. Tell us something serious and fact-based. In other words, debate. Insisting that Democrats are bad because they're bad and that the GOP is serious because they're serious, and Paul Ryan's plan is brave because he's so brave and courageous, is not debate. It's fiscal creationism.
| 395 |
jamesfirecat Tue, May 31, 2011 6:02:08pm |
re: #391 goddamnedfrank
Such cognitive dissonance. Cut defense spending, which is 58% of the non-discretionary budget and you're reflexively against it, but threaten soldier's pay directly with a default, and you think that's good brinksmanship.
////Because clearly its more important that military defense contractors get paid then our fighting men and women.
(I don't think you seriously believe that Dark)
| 396 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, May 31, 2011 6:02:22pm |
re: #388 Floral Giraffe
They've gone beyond "nicjacking" they're doing avatars too.
Buncha sick f'ers. Be very careful, DF.
I know. Thankfully, I've got their Twitter accounts blocked now. So I don't get the nasty tweets sent my way.
| 397 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, May 31, 2011 6:04:43pm |
re: #393 talon_262
So, you're basically saying that you're keeping a closed mind on any other budget plan (especially from the "other team"), aside from the "plan" the GOP is putting out (which isn't a real plan at all, but a lightly veiled attempt at economic and political extortion)?
No, I'm saying my mind is made up on the plan from the Progressive Caucus. That does not foreclose other Democratic plans from consideration.
| 398 |
Charles Johnson Tue, May 31, 2011 6:07:14pm |
re: #397 Dark_Falcon
No, I'm saying my mind is made up on the plan from the Progressive Caucus.
Without even reading it, apparently.
| 399 |
watching you tiny alien kittens are Tue, May 31, 2011 6:12:49pm |
Ok, so apparently no one really wants to hear this, but..
The solution is institute universal national healthcare (single payer), increase taxes by about 5% across the board, Institute very minor tariffs on Chinese imports (2-3%), increase the paycheck deduction for medicare/medicaid/unemployment by about 3%. The deficeit would still continue to climb slightly for about the next twenty years but then would begin to pay itself off.
We are fighting demographics here, the biggest ever explosion in births in this country also coincided with the "New Deal" now we face the baby boomers retiring in mass and expecting the benefits (medicare and social security) that they believe they have already paid for to support them in retirement. The GSA says that we will fall short over the next 30 odd years by something more than 70 Trillion dollars!. Provided that medical costs keep jumping by more than 10% per year, provided the tax structure remains static, provided we are too stupid to bite the bullet and except a bit more pain in order to meet our promises.
Really the only way out is to nationalize healthcare, instead of having more than 2000 different insurers paying their stockholders dividends and paying their hundreds of thousands of employees which ends up being an average overhead in the neighborhood of 35% instead of medicares 3% average.
We can continue to subsidize the medical insurance industry and bankrupt ourselves or we can simply get rid of for profit medical companies altogether, but that would be socialism, like fire departments, libraries, universities...blah, blah...
| 400 |
palomino Tue, May 31, 2011 6:20:53pm |
re: #381 Dark_Falcon
I dismissed it out of hand. National Review already reviewed it then panned it. I'm content to accept their analysis. It was the defense cuts, though, that set my mind in stone against it.
Also, I got someone with your nic who is following me on Twitter. Is that you?
God forbid we have ANY defense cuts? We spend nearly as much as the rest of the world combined. If you want fiscal discipline, you can't pronounce 25-30% of the budget off limits. Even the tea party gets this, sort of.
| 401 |
Ben G. Hazi Tue, May 31, 2011 6:42:10pm |
re: #398 Charles
Without even reading it, apparently.
Why should Dark read it? National Review read and "analyzed" it, so he didn't have to...
///
| 402 |
Lidane Tue, May 31, 2011 7:03:08pm |
re: #4 makeitstop
It's all fun and games until a global economic catastrophe happens.
FREE MARKETS SOLVE EVERYTHING!
And she wants to be president?
To quote the genius that is Calvin & Hobbes, God must have a goofy sense of humor. Heh.
| 403 |
barflytom Wed, Jun 1, 2011 12:32:34am |
re: #362 publicityStunted
LOL at the very idea the GOP has credibility on "fiscal conservatism".
No, seriously. There's no intellectually honest way you could ever justify and explain-away what that chart shows.
You forget that Congress, rather than the President is responsible for spending - the relatively sane budgets of the Clinton era were because the GOP ( Newt ! ) held Congress.
That said, I was always dismayed to see how G W Bush "worked with" Democrats during his time in office - he had a chance to cut back the size of government and failed to take it.
As for raising the debt ceiling without conditions attached, I can only draw your attention to how the vote went......
| 404 |
Obdicut Wed, Jun 1, 2011 2:33:12am |
re: #403 barflytom
Nice job contradicting yourself in two sentences.
| 405 |
Barflytom Wed, Jun 1, 2011 5:05:35am |
re: #404 Obdicut
Nice job contradicting yourself in two sentences.
Not really. My point is he didn't veto a single bill in his first term.
It's still Congress doing the spending.
And by the way, if you want to deal with deficits, it's spending that needs to be addressed, not trying to balance the budget by "taxing the rich" or some other nonsense. Whatever you do with tax rates, 19 or perhaps 20 percent of GDP is historically the most that the Federal government is going to get in revenue. If you keep spending 25 % of GDP, well, even you should be able to figure that out.......
[Link: reason.com...]
| 406 |
Obdicut Wed, Jun 1, 2011 5:12:19am |
re: #405 Barflytom
And by the way, if you want to deal with deficits, it's spending that needs to be addressed, not trying to balance the budget by "taxing the rich" or some other nonsense.
Why? Why isn't increasing revenue part of it?
If you keep spending 25 % of GDP, well, even you should be able to figure that out...
Sure. We do need to cut spending. We also need to raise taxes. The spending we really need to control is medical spending. You don't do that by just saying that seniors can fuck off and attempt to purchase unobtainable health insurance on the open market, like Ryan's moronic plan does.
| 407 |
Barflytom Wed, Jun 1, 2011 5:26:10am |
re: #406 Obdicut
Why? Why isn't increasing revenue part of it?
Sure. We do need to cut spending. We also need to raise taxes.
Did you bother to look at the chart I linked to ?
Which taxes do you propose raising, and what makes you think you'll get more revenue from higher marginal rates for example ?
| 408 |
iossarian Wed, Jun 1, 2011 6:26:38am |
re: #407 Barflytom
Did you bother to look at the chart I linked to ?
Which taxes do you propose raising, and what makes you think you'll get more revenue from higher marginal rates for example ?
That chart only tells you that federal spending has hovered around 20% of GDP. Obviously the way in which that revenue is collected has changed over time, but that's no proof of a causal link. It's much more plausible to say (for example) that, since the 60s, the federal government has shifted the burden of taxation from the very wealthy to the middle class, without changing its spending patterns very much.
European countries have higher state spending as a percentage of GDP - they seem to be able to do that just fine. The whole "animal spirits of entrepreneurship" thing is just bullshit to con the gullible. The vast majority of small business owners would not be affected by a tax increase on incomes over $250K.
| 409 |
Obdicut Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:02:02am |
re: #407 Barflytom
Did you bother to look at the chart I linked to ?
Which taxes do you propose raising, and what makes you think you'll get more revenue from higher marginal rates for example ?
Because we did. If the Bush tax cuts weren't in place, we'd be getting a lot more revenue.
And I'm sorry, American Thinker is not a credible source. Please try something else.
| 410 |
Barflytom Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:10:23am |
re: #408 iossarian
That chart only tells you that federal spending has hovered around 20% of GDP. Obviously the way in which that revenue is collected has changed over time, but that's no proof of a causal link. It's much more plausible to say (for example) that, since the 60s, the federal government has shifted the burden of taxation from the very wealthy to the middle class, without changing its spending patterns very much.
European countries have higher state spending as a percentage of GDP - they seem to be able to do that just fine. The whole "animal spirits of entrepreneurship" thing is just bullshit to con the gullible. The vast majority of small business owners would not be affected by a tax increase on incomes over $250K.
The chart shows revenues not spending.
I think you'll find that the top slice of income earners pay a higher percentage of total personal taxes than in the past - and a higher percentage of their incomes.
Also, total personal income and total corporate profits tend to stay within a fairly narrow band as a proportion of GDP. Since taxes on those are the main sources of Federal revenue, it shouldn't be surprising that revenues tend to remain within a narrow band as well.
If you want to make a significant difference to total Federal revenues, you'll need to tax something else, which probably means a Federal sales tax or VAT, which would be pretty regressive.
Then you could get up to European levels of spending, which should keep you lefties happy if by "just fine" you mean chronic unemployment, unsustainable entitlements, and almost total dependence on the USA for defence.
And on your last point, there is so much evidence that high marginal tax rates don't increase revenue and stifle productive investment that I can't understand why anyone still spouts nonsense about taxing "the rich". It's not hard to understand - if marginal rates are too high, then investment goes into tax free bonds for example, or goes overseas, or simply gets hidden. Not many people want to put money into a new business venture if the government is going to confiscate half the profits, and if the same after-tax return can be obtained somewhere else with less risk and less effort.
| 411 |
Barflytom Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:20:13am |
re: #409 Obdicut
Because we did. If the Bush tax cuts weren't in place, we'd be getting a lot more revenue.
And I'm sorry, American Thinker is not a credible source. Please try something else.
"A lot more", like 1 or 2 percent of GDP perhaps ?
If you don't like the source you can find the same statistics somewhere else. Federal revenues as a percentage of GDP haven't moved outside a fairly narrow band since the thirties.
They're historically low now for various reasons ( about 15% of GDP ), but if you think adding a few points to the highest marginal rates is going to cover Obama type spending then you're not being serious.
| 412 |
Obdicut Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:35:36am |
re: #411 Barflytom
1 or 2 percent of GDP is an absolutely massive number.
If you don't like the source you can find the same statistics somewhere else.
What do you mean by 'Obama-type spending'? Are you somehow intimating that Obama is spending more than Bush?
| 413 |
Barflytom Wed, Jun 1, 2011 8:19:20am |
re: #412 Obdicut
1 or 2 percent of GDP is an absolutely massive number.
Indeed it is, but still not going to get you out of trouble if the deficit is 10% of GDP. And I doubt whether increases in rates would actually yield that much anyway.
What do you mean by 'Obama-type spending'? Are you somehow intimating that Obama is spending more than Bush?
I think the budget he submitted, and which was voted down 97-0 in the Senate, was for about a trillion more in spending than the last year before the Pelosi congress.
As I said before, I wasn't happy to see how much spending went up under a Republican President and a Republican controlled Congress. Spending an extra trillion a year of borrowed / printed money is just grotesque.
Point is, you can see what Obama would like to do spending / squandering-wise if the dems still had control of the House.
| 414 |
Obdicut Wed, Jun 1, 2011 8:34:31am |
re: #413 Barflytom
Indeed it is, but still not going to get you out of trouble if the deficit is 10% of GDP.
For some reason, you're pretending that I said that it would.
I think the budget he submitted, and which was voted down 97-0 in the Senate, was for about a trillion more in spending than the last year before the Pelosi congress.
let me know when you get close to any facts, please.
| 415 |
Barflytom Wed, Jun 1, 2011 8:40:28am |
re: #414 Obdicut
let me know when you get close to any facts, please.
Obama's budget proposal was for 3.7 trillion in spending.
Spending for FY 2006 and FY 2007 was 2.7 trillion and 2.8 trillion.
Did you really not know that ?
| 416 |
Obdicut Wed, Jun 1, 2011 8:41:31am |
re: #415 Barflytom
And what items did Obama include on his budget that weren't on the budget under Bush?
| 417 |
Barflytom Wed, Jun 1, 2011 8:49:34am |
re: #416 Obdicut
And what items did Obama include on his budget that weren't on the budget under Bush?
Ok, so you're going to suggest that Bush somehow hid some huge amount of spending are you ?
Look up what the actual cash outlays were by the government then - and actual deficits vs projected deficits for around those years.
I can't be bothered frankly.
If that is the point you're going to try to make, then you produce the figures.
| 418 |
Obdicut Wed, Jun 1, 2011 8:51:17am |
re: #417 Barflytom
A) Bush kept the Iraq and Afghanistan wars off-budget. Obama included them.
B) Bush implemented TARP independent of the budget. That was about $700 billion.
Did you forget about TARP or something?
| 419 |
Barflytom Wed, Jun 1, 2011 9:10:26am |
re: #418 Obdicut
A) Bush kept the Iraq and Afghanistan wars off-budget. Obama included them.
B) Bush implemented TARP independent of the budget. That was about $700 billion.
Did you forget about TARP or something?
Ok, what were the figures for actual spending in FY 2006 and 2007 then ?
TARP was two years after the years I mentioned.
| 420 |
Obdicut Wed, Jun 1, 2011 9:11:55am |
re: #419 Barflytom
So why are you trying to compare those years to this years budget of Obama's? Just intentionally trying to ignore TARP, or what?
| 421 |
Barflytom Wed, Jun 1, 2011 9:21:05am |
re: #420 Obdicut
So why are you trying to compare those years to this years budget of Obama's? Just intentionally trying to ignore TARP, or what?
They're the last two years of a somewhat spendthrift Republican administration with a Republican Congress.
Comparing years that include either TARP or Obama's "stimulus" ( more like sedative !) isn't really meaningful is it ?
Actual cash spending figures please.
| 422 |
Obdicut Wed, Jun 1, 2011 9:31:12am |
re: #421 Barflytom
Comparing years that include either TARP or Obama's "stimulus" ( more like sedative !) isn't really meaningful is it ?
Ah. So you want to cherry pick years to compare. Okay. That makes sense.
| 423 |
Barflytom Wed, Jun 1, 2011 9:41:47am |
re: #422 Obdicut
Ah. So you want to cherry pick years to compare. Okay. That makes sense.
You asked me for facts when I said spending in Obama's proposed budget was about a trillion more than the last year before the Pelosi congress.
You're disputing the figures I came up with for the last two years before the dems regained the House, i.e. before "the Pelosi congress", and now you're saying I'm cherry picking because I tried to answer your specific "let me know when you get close to any facts" request.
If you dispute the figures I found, then fair enough. What are the correct figures for spending for those years then ?
| 424 |
Obdicut Wed, Jun 1, 2011 9:46:49am |
re: #423 Barflytom
You're right. I'm sorry that I didn't notice that you were cherry-picking years to compare in order to create a distorted view. My apologies. You certainly did have facts and I was wrong to say you didn't.
Of course, they're cherry-picked facts that ignore reality-- like that Obama's spending has all been in the context of a massive recession and that, during the brief period of time that Bush had the same recession, he was spending like crazy as well.
However, you are still right that I stupidly ignored your 'last year of the Pelosi congress' addendum. My apologies. You did indeed have your facts right.
| 425 |
Barflytom Wed, Jun 1, 2011 10:02:51am |
re: #424 Obdicut
Fair enough. And I'm not going to try very hard to defend Bush's spending either.
There was a case to be made for bailing out the banks, since the whole financial system might well have collapsed otherwise, and I think a case could be made for the GM bailout for example, although I would have liked to have seen it done differently.
I don't see how anyone can justify the present levels of spending though, and I would argue that the generally anti-business attitude of Obama and his cronies is now prolonging the recession.
Gateway Pundit, Sued by Election Workers, Declares BankruptcyA onetime favorite, now just pathetic figure around these parts, Jim Hoft aka SMOTI ("Stupidest Man On The Internet"), has filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in response to the defamation lawsuits filed against him to the same election workers that ...
Khal Wimpo (free internal organs upon request!)
The Pandemic Cost 7 Million Lives, but Talks to Prevent a Repeat Stall In late 2021, as the world reeled from the arrival of the highly contagious omicron variant of the coronavirus, representatives of almost 200 countries met - some online, some in-person in Geneva - hoping to forestall a future worldwide ...
Cheechako
Once Praised, the Settlement to Help Sickened BP Oil Spill Workers Leaves Most With Nearly Nothing When a deadly explosion destroyed BP’s Deepwater Horizon drilling rig in the Gulf of Mexico, 134 million gallons of crude erupted into the sea over the next three months — and tens of thousands of ordinary people were hired ... Cheechako
Alone in a Bathroom: The Fear and Uncertainty of a Post-Roe Medication Abortion Angel tucked two white pills into each side of her mouth, bracing herself as they began to dissolve. Her deepest fears and anxieties took over. Angel had wanted to talk to a doctor before she took the pills to ... Cheechako
They Were Desperate to Get Pregnant. Then IVF Gave Them Extra Embryos. One morning last spring, Ashley Harrolle put her 1-year-old daughter down for a nap and went to the kitchen. She pulled up her fertility clinic’s contact information. It was time to make the call. In a freezer several hundred ... CheechakoJoe Bacon ✅
Best of April 2024 Nothing new here but these are a look back at the a few good images from the past month. Despite the weather, I was quite pleased with several of them. These were taken with older lenses (made from the ...
William Lewis
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ... Cheechako
