Speaking in Waterloo, Iowa, Michele Bachmann (R-Mars) announced her presidential campaign by saying, “John Wayne was from Waterloo.”
Oops. Film star John Wayne was actually born in Winterset, Iowa, but Waterloo did have its own John Wayne: depraved serial killer John Wayne Gacy, executed in 1994 for 33 counts of murder.
Youtube Video5 |
albusteve Mon, Jun 27, 2011 1:28:22pm |
John Wayne would sock Bachmann into next month if he were alive...Bachmann is a parody of all that is wrong with her party
| 6 |
Kragar Mon, Jun 27, 2011 1:28:42pm |
| 7 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jun 27, 2011 1:28:58pm |
Makes sense. She's a serial murderer of logic and sanity.
| 8 |
Varek Raith Mon, Jun 27, 2011 1:29:24pm |
re: #7 Slumbering Behemoth
Makes sense. She's a serial murderer of logic and sanity.
And braincells!
Mah poor braincells!
| 9 |
elizajane Mon, Jun 27, 2011 1:29:34pm |
Quick, change the wiki page to reflect this alternative history!
(Actually, I already checked -- the John Wayne page has been locked against unsolicited changes.)
| 10 |
JeffM70 Mon, Jun 27, 2011 1:30:19pm |
This woman's campaign is going to be one bizarre laughtrack.
| 11 |
wrenchwench Mon, Jun 27, 2011 1:30:24pm |
re: #5 albusteve
John Wayne would sock Bachmann into next month if he were alive...Bachmann is a
parodydocumentary of all that is wrong with her party
FTFY.
| 12 |
Varek Raith Mon, Jun 27, 2011 1:31:30pm |
re: #9 elizajane
Quick, change the wiki page to reflect this alternative history!
(Actually, I already checked -- the John Wayne page has been locked against unsolicited changes.)
That's to prevent the "John Wayne died because of radiation exposure" conspiracies.
| 13 |
Charles Johnson Mon, Jun 27, 2011 1:32:20pm |
UPDATE:The Bachmann campaign sent this explanation: "John Wayne is from Iowa, his parents lived in Waterloo."
| 14 |
albusteve Mon, Jun 27, 2011 1:33:58pm |
re: #12 Varek Raith
That's to prevent the "John Wayne died because of radiation exposure" conspiracies.
lead poisoning...but how mant times?...I say four
| 15 |
Charles Johnson Mon, Jun 27, 2011 1:34:01pm |
If you hate clowns don't click on the John Wayne Gacy link.
| 16 |
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Mon, Jun 27, 2011 1:34:27pm |
re: #9 elizajane
Quick, change the wiki page to reflect this alternative history!
(Actually, I already checked -- the John Wayne page has been locked against unsolicited changes.)
Wikipedia will need to hire someone to do this 24/7 with Bachmann and Palin out on the campaign trail...
| 17 |
Kragar Mon, Jun 27, 2011 1:35:17pm |
re: #13 Charles
But he was born and lived in Winterset before moving to CA.
| 18 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jun 27, 2011 1:35:27pm |
re: #13 Charles
UPDATE:
The Bachmann campaign sent this explanation: "John Wayne is from Iowa, his parents lived in Waterloo."
His grandparents lived in Poland, and his great-grandparents immigrated to Poland from Russia. Ipso facto, John Wayne is a communist.
///
| 19 |
Alexzander Mon, Jun 27, 2011 1:35:41pm |
Sufjan Stevens - John Wayne Gacy Jr
A haunting and beautiful song.
| 20 |
Varek Raith Mon, Jun 27, 2011 1:35:56pm |
re: #18 Slumbering Behemoth
His grandparents lived in Poland, and his great-grandparents immigrated to Poland from Russia. Ipso facto, John Wayne is a communist.
///
YOU TAKE THAT BACK!!!!!!!!
| 21 |
Linden Arden Mon, Jun 27, 2011 1:36:49pm |
To quote Bill Maher - "the shit doesn't fall far from the bat".
If MB is like Palin on Paul Revere she will double up - and produce a "historian" to back her up.
Or change the Wikipedia page -- which has already happened today.
| 22 |
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Mon, Jun 27, 2011 1:37:11pm |
re: #18 Slumbering Behemoth
HOW COULD ANYONE FORGET POLAND!!
| 23 |
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Mon, Jun 27, 2011 1:39:29pm |
So now it's going from "John Wayne lived in Waterloo" to "Ok, maybe he didn't but his parents did". Campaign season hasn't even really begun and they're spinning so hard it's not even funny.
Thing is, this IS good news for John McCain because once '12 is over he'll look 100% sane next to these morons.
| 24 |
What, me worry? Mon, Jun 27, 2011 1:39:41pm |
re: #19 Alexzander
No offense, but I find that majorly weird and creepy.
| 25 |
Spocomptonite Mon, Jun 27, 2011 1:39:44pm |
Kind of ironic, I think, because in the past I've crossed paths with a RW meme involving Gacy and the Democratic Party and Jimmy Carter in particular. Now Bachmann has set herself up for her own meme, but this one will just be hilarious rather than dumb and serious.
| 26 |
Amory Blaine Mon, Jun 27, 2011 1:40:37pm |
The people of her district should be ashamed of themselves.
| 27 |
iossarian Mon, Jun 27, 2011 1:40:58pm |
To be fair to Bachmann (!) it's a bit unfortunate for her.
Bachmann: "Can you find me some real American hero who comes from here? I have to put something in my speech."
Flunky: "Sure... [click click click] ... would John Wayne do? He wasn't exactly born here but..."
Bachmann: "Great! Perfect! OK, let's go."
Flunky: "Right, good stuff. John Wayne... [click click click] OH SHIT."
| 28 |
darthstar Mon, Jun 27, 2011 1:41:18pm |
Man I love this woman. Pure, unfiltered crazy. Find a way to bottle that shit and you'll be rich.
| 29 |
Kragar Mon, Jun 27, 2011 1:41:41pm |
re: #26 Amory Blaine
The people of her district should be ashamed of themselves.
Why? She makes sure plenty of the government money she says no one should gets makes it back home to them.
| 30 |
Political Atheist Mon, Jun 27, 2011 1:42:17pm |
On Topic Page Pimping
Credibility Matters in a Head Of State
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
| 31 |
Kragar Mon, Jun 27, 2011 1:42:38pm |
re: #28 darthstar
Man I love this woman. Pure, unfiltered crazy. Find a way to bottle that shit and you'll be rich.
Weaponize it and you'd be up on war crime charges.
| 32 |
Alexzander Mon, Jun 27, 2011 1:42:46pm |
re: #24 marjoriemoon
No offense, but I find that majorly weird and creepy.
Are you familiar with Sufjan Stevens?
He's actually a pretty normal catholic song writer - the song comes from a concept album all about Illinois (not sure the wayne gacy connection).
| 33 |
albusteve Mon, Jun 27, 2011 1:43:59pm |
re: #23 Dreggas
So now it's going from "John Wayne lived in Waterloo" to "Ok, maybe he didn't but his parents did". Campaign season hasn't even really begun and they're spinning so hard it's not even funny.
Thing is, this IS good news for John McCain because once '12 is over he'll look 100% sane next to these morons.
people love it...it's what they want...some stupid tangent becomes the issue du jour...while govt folds into a wad of ineffectiveness, where John Wayne was born is heavy metal...pathetic
| 34 |
Amory Blaine Mon, Jun 27, 2011 1:45:49pm |
| 37 |
iossarian Mon, Jun 27, 2011 1:46:37pm |
re: #34 Amory Blaine
Blagojevich GUILTY: Jury Convicts Rod Blagojevich On 17 Of 20 Counts
If Blago and Bachmann had kids you could make a space elevator out of the hair.
| 38 |
albusteve Mon, Jun 27, 2011 1:46:57pm |
re: #34 Amory Blaine
Blagojevich GUILTY: Jury Convicts Rod Blagojevich On 17 Of 20 Counts
his hair is a pre-meditated felony
| 39 |
Alexzander Mon, Jun 27, 2011 1:48:10pm |
re: #34 Amory Blaine
Blagojevich GUILTY: Jury Convicts Rod Blagojevich On 17 Of 20 Counts
Facing up to 300 years in jail.
| 40 |
darthstar Mon, Jun 27, 2011 1:48:14pm |
Just played the video...love it!
"I want them to know...John Wayne [Gacy] is from Waterloo, Iowa...that's the kind of spirit I have too."
| 41 |
darthstar Mon, Jun 27, 2011 1:48:58pm |
re: #34 Amory Blaine
Blagojevich GUILTY: Jury Convicts Rod Blagojevich On 17 Of 20 Counts
Does this mean he doesn't get a second shot at Celebrity Apprentice until 2310?
| 42 |
iossarian Mon, Jun 27, 2011 1:49:22pm |
re: #41 darthstar
Does this mean he doesn't get a second shot at Celebrity Apprentice until 2310?
I'm a Celebrity - GET ME OUT OF HERE!
| 43 |
darthstar Mon, Jun 27, 2011 1:49:36pm |
re: #38 albusteve
his hair is a pre-meditated felony
His hair is from Waterloo, Iowa, just like Michele Bachmann's sense of self.
| 44 |
Kragar Mon, Jun 27, 2011 1:51:03pm |
re: #43 darthstar
His hair is from Waterloo, Iowa, just like Michele Bachmann's sense of self.
Actually, his hair started as a clipping from Trafficant which took root nicely.
| 45 |
ProMayaLiberal Mon, Jun 27, 2011 1:51:41pm |
Kucinich is varmint:
#Syria state news agency: #Assad meets Dennis #Kucinich & Brooks #Newmark in #Damascus. More on our live blog w/ photo: aje.me/j1V7HB
Come on Deomcrats, now you have two issues to smack him with.
To Democratic Local Government Officials in Cleveland: Please run and knock this fruit out of congress.
| 46 |
albusteve Mon, Jun 27, 2011 1:51:50pm |
re: #36 SpaceJesus
looks like they're evacuating los alamos
the end result of all those liberal, tree hugging lawsuits against maintenance logging and clean up...the west might just burn down entirely thanks to their narrow minded idealism
| 47 |
darthstar Mon, Jun 27, 2011 1:52:33pm |
re: #44 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Actually, his hair started as a clipping from Trafficant which took root nicely.
| 48 |
Bulworth Mon, Jun 27, 2011 1:52:54pm |
"I want them to know...John Wayne [Gacy] is from Waterloo, Iowa...that's the kind of spirit I have too."
She has the spirit of an actor who did Old West movies?
| 49 |
albusteve Mon, Jun 27, 2011 1:53:20pm |
| 50 |
b_sharp Mon, Jun 27, 2011 1:53:47pm |
re: #46 albusteve
the end result of all those liberal, tree hugging lawsuits against maintenance logging and clean up...the west might just burn down entirely thanks to their narrow minded idealism
Huh?
| 52 |
darthstar Mon, Jun 27, 2011 1:54:49pm |
re: #48 Bulworth
She has the spirit of an actor who did Old West movies?
She has the spirit of a clown that...no, I can't even bring myself to cite Gacy's crimes.
I hope this gaffe goes away soon...or nothing will be sacred. Seriously. Gacy was a freak.
| 55 |
wrenchwench Mon, Jun 27, 2011 1:55:43pm |
re: #45 ProLifeLiberal
Kucinich is varmint:
Come on Deomcrats, now you have two issues to smack him with.
To Democratic Local Government Officials in Cleveland: Please run and knock this fruit out of congress.
Say what?
| 56 |
ProMayaLiberal Mon, Jun 27, 2011 1:58:10pm |
re: #55 wrenchwench
Nut doesn't go far enough in describing him. I'm trying to denote a special type of stupid/crazy.
| 57 |
Eventual Carrion Mon, Jun 27, 2011 1:58:30pm |
re: #46 albusteve
the end result of all those liberal, tree hugging lawsuits against maintenance logging and clean up...the west might just burn down entirely thanks to their narrow minded idealism
Damn trees.
| 58 |
albusteve Mon, Jun 27, 2011 1:58:57pm |
re: #53 b_sharp
I thought the heat and drought had something to do with it.
you and spacefreak figure it out...quiz at 4pm
| 59 |
wrenchwench Mon, Jun 27, 2011 1:58:59pm |
re: #56 ProLifeLiberal
Nut doesn't go far enough in describing him. I'm trying to denote a special type of stupid/crazy.
Try again. That word already has certain implications as a slur.
| 61 |
ProMayaLiberal Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:00:13pm |
| 63 |
wrenchwench Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:01:17pm |
re: #58 albusteve
you and spacefreak figure it out...quiz at 4pm
I think the lawsuits you mention weren't to stop prescribed burns. Pretty much everybody agrees that fire suppression was a bad thing. It's just that there's a long way to go to rehab the forests. Unless you have a link or something to show I'm wrong...
| 64 |
Sol Berdinowitz Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:02:33pm |
We heard MB maintaining that evolution is being taught as a fact.
It is not.
It indicates taht she does not know enough about basic science to understand what comprises a a fact, a theory and a hypothesis.
hypothesis + supporting facts = theory
Intelligent design can never be more than a hypothesis because there is no way that it can be confirmed or refuted by objective facts.
| 65 |
wrenchwench Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:03:07pm |
re: #61 ProLifeLiberal
Okay, sorry about that.
How about rat? He resembles one.
Rat is pretty general. Only rodents will be offended.
| 66 |
Funky_Gibbon Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:04:23pm |
I just laughed so hard on reading that article headline.
| 67 |
wrenchwench Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:04:47pm |
| 68 |
makeitstop Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:06:56pm |
I wonder how Rep. 'Serious Person' will try to spin her way out of this.
| 69 |
ProMayaLiberal Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:07:17pm |
re: #65 wrenchwench
Okay, good! ^_^
I hope the Democrats don't just defeat him, but they also destroy his reputation so he can't come back later.
| 70 |
Alexzander Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:07:57pm |
re: #46 albusteve
the end result of all those liberal, tree hugging lawsuits against maintenance logging and clean up...the west might just burn down entirely thanks to their narrow minded idealism
Now this is how you get a thread started people.
| 72 |
albusteve Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:08:38pm |
re: #63 wrenchwench
I think the lawsuits you mention weren't to stop prescribed burns. Pretty much everybody agrees that fire suppression was a bad thing. It's just that there's a long way to go to rehab the forests. Unless you have a link or something to show I'm wrong...
[Link: www.forphoto.com...]
[Link: www.foxnews.com...]
[Link: www.mvgazette.com...]
it goes on and on
[Link: www.klamathforestalliance.org...]
[Link: www.mountainsofstone.com...]
| 73 |
Alexzander Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:09:00pm |
PS while we are talking about nuclear-weather situations:
| 74 |
albusteve Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:09:43pm |
| 75 |
BongCrodny Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:12:30pm |
re: #48 Bulworth
She has the spirit of an actor who did Old West movies?
Might have been fun had Bachmann been thinking of John Wayne Bobbitt instead.
| 76 |
reloadingisnotahobby Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:13:06pm |
re: #63 wrenchwench
I think the lawsuits you mention weren't to stop prescribed burns. Pretty much everybody agrees that fire suppression was a bad thing. It's just that there's a long way to go to rehab the forests. Unless you have a link or something to show I'm wrong...
I believe Steve is refering to the closer of 80% of the forests being closed to logging and not being able to thinout fuel sources...
Utah is not in drought...our issue is Pine Beatle and just age.
We allow more logging that many western states but we are at high risk if a fire should start...
| 77 |
ProMayaLiberal Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:13:36pm |
re: #73 Alexzander
Fortunately, the generators don't seem to be in massive trouble. Unlike Fukushima.
| 78 |
Spocomptonite Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:14:09pm |
re: #46 albusteve
the end result of all those liberal, tree hugging lawsuits against maintenance logging and clean up...the west might just burn down entirely thanks to their narrow minded idealism
You know, many environments have adapted to, or even require, periodic fires. "Maintenance logging and clean up" can have just as much damage to that ecosystem by preventing fires as wildfires have on human settlements. There needs to be a balance between having fires, but not massive ones so neither the environment nor the towns/cities that we establish in them suffer too greatly.
| 79 |
SidewaysQuark Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:14:13pm |
Should Bachmann win the Republican nomination, I predict a near replay of Reagan-Mondale with blue and red reversed.
| 80 |
Kragar Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:14:18pm |
| 81 |
Sol Berdinowitz Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:14:58pm |
| 82 |
Alexzander Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:16:06pm |
re: #77 ProLifeLiberal
Fortunately, the generators don't seem to be in massive trouble. Unlike Fukushima.
Yeah and its been in a cooling down phase since April. Still a tiny bit alarming.
In the case of the Los Alamos fire situation, I'm not really sure what the concerns or worst case scenarios are.
| 83 |
Kragar Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:16:31pm |
| 84 |
reloadingisnotahobby Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:17:58pm |
re: #78 Spocomptonite
Here in Utah a perscribed burn always
becomes a WTF were we thinking out of control burn!!
Last three bad fires WERE PERSCRIBED BURNS.....
| 85 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:18:32pm |
Gaza Flotilla plagued by mysterious mechanical problems...
Apparent sabotage against Gaza flotilla
A ship jointly owned by Swedish, Greek, and Norwegian activists hoping to join a flotilla of activist vessels challenging Israel's economic blockade of Gaza, had its propeller cut while in Athen's harbor today. A spokesman contacted by the Monitor said that the damage was a deliberate act of sabotage.
Heh.
| 86 |
albusteve Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:19:32pm |
re: #82 Alexzander
Yeah and its been in a cooling down phase since April. Still a tiny bit alarming.
In the case of the Los Alamos fire situation, I'm not really sure what the concerns or worst case scenarios are.
worst case scenario?...burn down 400 houses and cause $1b in damages...they will fight to the death to prevent the labs from burning, same as the Yellowstone fire in the mid 90's...saving the Village and the Lodge up there
| 88 |
Obdicut Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:20:54pm |
re: #72 albusteve
Steve, you have no clue what you're talking about. For a long time, forest maintenance wrongly though that putting out fires whenever they happened was the best possible thing-- that's bad, because brush builds up, and eventually when you do get a fire, it's freaking out of control.
Logging is not a natural part of forest maintenance, and in no way would logging help to control the spread of these fires. There are perfectly valid arguments to be made for selective logging, but 'It helps with fires' ain't one of them. What's needed is natural fires being allowed to burn themselves out.
The only part of what you're saying that bears any resemblance to reality is that environmentalists have objected to firebreaks near housing.
| 89 |
albusteve Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:22:25pm |
re: #85 Killgore Trout
Gaza Flotilla plagued by mysterious mechanical problems...
Apparent sabotage against Gaza flotilla
Heh.
I'll be darned...can you believe it?
| 90 |
Kragar Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:22:33pm |
re: #85 Killgore Trout
Gaza Flotilla plagued by mysterious mechanical problems...
Apparent sabotage against Gaza flotilla
Heh.
Oh darn. And such a shock too, after they were reported as having an unsafe vessel.
| 91 |
lgffan Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:23:01pm |
is it possible that she actually does this on purpose to garner the derision of the "intelligentsia" and therefore elicit more chatter from those of us "laughing" at her support from her "dumb as a box of rocks" followers?
Just askin'
| 92 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:23:20pm |
re: #5 albusteve
John Wayne would sock Bachmann into next month if he were alive...Bachmann is a parody of all that is wrong with her party
John Wayne would not hit a lady.
He might sling her over his shoulder and carry her off somewhere where she couldn't cause any trouble, though.
| 93 |
Obdicut Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:23:24pm |
re: #85 Killgore Trout
Now the question is: did the captain just sabotage it himself so he can rip off the rubes?
| 94 |
b_sharp Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:23:26pm |
OT:
I've had the song 'Fire' from Arthur Brown running through my head for the last hour or more.
How do I stop it?
And Steve, do not tell me to go soak my head.
| 95 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:23:44pm |
re: #9 elizajane
Quick, change the wiki page to reflect this alternative history!
(Actually, I already checked -- the John Wayne page has been locked against unsolicited changes.)
Poor Wikipedia editors. How could they have foreseen this?
| 96 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:24:10pm |
re: #90 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Oh darn. And such a shock too, after they were reported as having an unsafe vessel.
"Such a lovely boat you have there. It would be a shame if something happened to it"
- Zionist frogman
| 97 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:24:39pm |
| 98 |
reloadingisnotahobby Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:24:46pm |
re: #89 albusteve
I'll be darned...can you believe it?
It's easy to do...
Just change the Desiel only gas caps for Unleaded only!!
By the time they figure it out they'll need oars!!
| 99 |
albusteve Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:25:03pm |
re: #94 b_sharp
OT:
I've had the song 'Fire' from Arthur Brown running through my head for the last hour or more.
How do I stop it?
And Steve, do not tell me to go soak my head.
not me...I've posted it many time thru the years...I saw him do it in 1968...a good all purpose slam song
| 100 |
wrenchwench Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:25:03pm |
re: #72 albusteve
My notes in italics:
[Link: www.forphoto.com...]from 2000, too old.
[Link: www.foxnews.com...]From that link:Experts such as professor Wally Covington of Northern Arizona University, who has studied Western forests for decades, say the problems have been building for decades, and blaming lawsuits ignores those facts. Nearly half a million square miles of ponderosa and conifer forests are at risk across the West, he said.
[Link: www.mvgazette.com...]this is about Massachusettesit goes on and on
[Link: www.klamathforestalliance.org...]Oregon.
[Link: www.mountainsofstone.com...]Opinion piece by a ... um, crackpot?
| 101 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:25:04pm |
re: #37 iossarian
If Blago and Bachmann had kids you could make a space elevator out of the hair.
When I saw Princess Amidala's hair, I realized where Leia had gotten the weird updo genes from.
| 102 |
b_sharp Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:25:21pm |
re: #91 lgffan
is it possible that she actually does this on purpose to garner the derision of the "intelligentsia" and therefore elicit more chatter from those of us "laughing" at her support from her "dumb as a box of rocks" followers?
Just askin'
Elitists are mean, nasty arrogant know-it-alls that drive the know-nothings out of their minds.
| 103 |
Lidane Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:26:12pm |
re: #18 Slumbering Behemoth
His grandparents lived in Poland, and his great-grandparents immigrated to Poland from Russia. Ipso facto, John Wayne is a communist.
///
That's okay. The GOP forgot about Poland ages ago.
/bored at work
| 104 |
wrenchwench Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:26:28pm |
re: #72 albusteve
In other words, it has been a problem in the past, but now it's a recycled talking point.
| 105 |
reloadingisnotahobby Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:26:32pm |
re: #94 b_sharp
Have a Gin and Tonic...ah...easy on the Gin...../
| 106 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:26:47pm |
re: #75 BongCrodny
Might have been fun had Bachmann been thinking of John Wayne Bobbitt instead.
Are there any men named after John Wayne who did well for themselves? Isn't there a single John Wayne Something who became a novelist, or opened a successful hardware store, or founded a nonprofit that fights malaria?
| 107 |
albusteve Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:28:51pm |
re: #100 wrenchwench
My notes in italics:
[Link: www.mvgazette.com...]this is about Massachusettesit goes on and on
[Link: www.klamathforestalliance.org...]Oregon.
[Link: www.mountainsofstone.com...]Opinion piece by a ... um, crackpot?
the object is to point out the controversy...you knew that...the lawsuits have crippled the powers that be to move forward and get this thing taken care of...our forests are in shambles, waiting to burn down...controlled or not
| 108 |
reloadingisnotahobby Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:30:00pm |
re: #106 SanFranciscoZionist
What are you saying...that we shouldn't name our children after
famous people in fear of them under achieving??
What will I tell my little Fidel???
THANKS!/
| 109 |
albusteve Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:30:01pm |
re: #104 wrenchwench
In other words, it has been a problem in the past, but now it's a recycled talking point.
I just fell off the banana boat
| 110 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:30:15pm |
re: #96 Killgore Trout
"Such a lovely boat you have there. It would be a shame if something happened to it"
- Zionist frogman
I would not be surprised if Yossi the 'sponge diver on vacation' put a wrench in the works.
I would also not be surprised if the damn thing just fell off, and they're lying about it.
Nothing at all would surprise me at this point.
| 111 |
wrenchwench Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:31:21pm |
re: #107 albusteve
the object is to point out the controversy...you knew that...the lawsuits have crippled the powers that be to move forward and get this thing taken care of...our forests are in shambles, waiting to burn down...controlled or not
Controversy is one thing. Back-and-forth finger pointing is another. Nobody says they don't need fire in the forests. There will be differences over the best times, places, and ways to do it. Environmentalists are not responsible for the Cerro Gordo Fire, nor the current fire in that area.
| 112 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:32:11pm |
re: #108 reloadingisnotahobby
What are you saying...that we shouldn't name our children after
famous people in fear of them under achieving??
What will I tell my little Fidel???
THANKS!/
Friend of mine grew up with hippie-era commies for parents--she always tells of how 'the comrades' came up with a list of baby names for her aunt and uncle to consider. The best line of this comedy routine--"Che is a nice name for a boy. And well, Che is a nice name for a girl, too, now that I come to think of it."
The child was named Michelle. After the Beatles song.
| 113 |
albusteve Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:32:27pm |
re: #96 Killgore Trout
"Such a lovely boat you have there. It would be a shame if something happened to it"
- Zionist frogman
two words...
IDF dolphins
| 114 |
wrenchwench Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:33:09pm |
re: #112 SanFranciscoZionist
Friend of mine grew up with hippie-era commies for parents--she always tells of how 'the comrades' came up with a list of baby names for her aunt and uncle to consider. The best line of this comedy routine--"Che is a nice name for a boy. And well, Che is a nice name for a girl, too, now that I come to think of it."
The child was named Michelle. After the Beatles song.
There's a Che in there!
| 115 |
albusteve Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:34:57pm |
re: #111 wrenchwench
Controversy is one thing. Back-and-forth finger pointing is another. Nobody says they don't need fire in the forests. There will be differences over the best times, places, and ways to do it. Environmentalists are not responsible for the Cerro Gordo Fire, nor the current fire in that area.
opinions differ as to the Wallow fire...and further, nobody is responsible for anything these days...how the fire starts is not my issue, what's there to burn is and I never implied otherwise
| 116 |
albusteve Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:36:27pm |
| 117 |
wrenchwench Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:37:39pm |
re: #115 albusteve
opinions differ as to the Wallow fire...and further, nobody is responsible for anything these days...how the fire starts is not my issue, what's there to burn is and I never implied otherwise
AFAIK, we were talking about fuel loads from fire suppression, not ignition. I did a Page about ignition of the Southern AZ fires.
| 118 |
albusteve Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:38:39pm |
re: #117 wrenchwench
AFAIK, we were talking about fuel loads from fire suppression, not ignition. I did a Page about ignition of the Southern AZ fires.
and I want to thank you for posting that stuff...I forgot to earlier
| 119 |
Obdicut Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:38:56pm |
re: #115 albusteve
Steve, again, logging forests to remove trees isn't in any way a responsible method of reducing the severity of fires. It makes no goddamn sense even as an argument. I mean, sure, if you log all the trees, there won't be any fires. There also won't be any trees. It takes about half a second of thought to realize that logging obviously isn't a natural way of promoting forest health.
The main reasons for severity of forest fires and their impact on housing are:
A) Decades of forest mismanagement in which fires were aggressively fought, so tinder has built up.
B) Long droughts and higher heat
C) Development so that housing is closer to the wilderness and forest areas.
| 120 |
freetoken Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:39:20pm |
Buchanan and his ilk won't be happy about this:
New Hispanic majority transforms culture of Reading, Pa.
Reading High School marked a milestone this month: a graduation ceremony with its first Hispanic valedictorian. Noe Cabello is unlikely to be the last.
The Hispanic population of this historically white city shaped by English and German ancestry — along with the surrounding Lehigh Valley— has skyrocketed in the past decade, echoing a national trend highlighted by the 2010 Census.
Reading, now 58% Hispanic, is the latest harbinger for a more diverse America in regions where Hispanic migration has been a relatively recent development.
[...]
I wonder how Bachmann will do in Reading?
| 121 |
Alexzander Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:39:29pm |
re: #116 albusteve
oddly I wear a Kangol when I go out
Is there any evacuation risk for you right now?
| 122 |
BongCrodny Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:39:39pm |
re: #106 SanFranciscoZionist
Are there any men named after John Wayne who did well for themselves? Isn't there a single John Wayne Something who became a novelist, or opened a successful hardware store, or founded a nonprofit that fights malaria?
I humbly call your attention to this article:
| 123 |
b_sharp Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:40:56pm |
re: #108 reloadingisnotahobby
What are you saying...that we shouldn't name our children after
famous people in fear of them under achieving??
What will I tell my little Fidel???
THANKS!/
Tell him to get a job.
| 124 |
albusteve Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:41:17pm |
re: #121 Alexzander
Is there any evacuation risk for you right now?
oh yes, hired assassine's that mistake me for somebody else
| 125 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:42:05pm |
re: #110 SanFranciscoZionist
I would not be surprised if Yossi the 'sponge diver on vacation' put a wrench in the works.
I would also not be surprised if the damn thing just fell off, and they're lying about it.
Nothing at all would surprise me at this point.
Both are possibilities. If it was sabotage I would suspect that it was indented as an obvious warning that they are wasting their time. Once they're a mile off the coast they are going to lose power or steering and it's going to be a big pain in their ass while at sea.
| 126 |
wrenchwench Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:42:35pm |
re: #119 Obdicut
Steve, again, logging forests to remove trees isn't in any way a responsible method of reducing the severity of fires. It makes no goddamn sense even as an argument. I mean, sure, if you log all the trees, there won't be any fires. There also won't be any trees. It takes about half a second of thought to realize that logging obviously isn't a natural way of promoting forest health.
The main reasons for severity of forest fires and their impact on housing are:
A) Decades of forest mismanagement in which fires were aggressively fought, so tinder has built up.
B) Long droughts and higher heat
C) Development so that housing is closer to the wilderness and forest areas.
Actually, logging (of the thinning variety) can help. When the trees are farther apart, the fire stays on the ground. When they are closer, the fire gets in the crowns of the trees and goes from tree to tree rapidly. That's when the fires go crazy.
| 127 |
albusteve Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:43:57pm |
re: #126 wrenchwench
Actually, logging (of the thinning variety) can help. When the trees are farther apart, the fire stays on the ground. When they are closer, the fire gets in the crowns of the trees and goes from tree to tree rapidly. That's when the fires go crazy.
you are such a nice person...I won't even reply to such a stupid post
| 128 |
Obdicut Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:44:29pm |
re: #126 wrenchwench
And if you log the trees out to prevent those fires, you get a build up of brush on the ground, and then you get a fire from the bottom up, which also go crazy.
What we've learned about forest management is basically that fucking with the natural fire cycle bites you in the ass.
| 129 |
freetoken Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:45:25pm |
One governor (D) holding the line:
| 130 |
b_sharp Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:45:57pm |
re: #127 albusteve
you are such a nice person...I won't even reply to such a stupid post
That was uncalled for Steve. And kind of shitty.
| 131 |
wrenchwench Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:47:02pm |
re: #128 Obdicut
And if you log the trees out to prevent those fires, you get a build up of brush on the ground, and then you get a fire from the bottom up, which also go crazy.
What we've learned about forest management is basically that fucking with the natural fire cycle bites you in the ass.
No no, you make slash piles, and you burn those. Natural fires are good, but there is a hell of a lot of catching up to do. Thinning trees and burning slash is going on all the time around here, unless it's actually fire season and it might get away from them.
| 132 |
wrenchwench Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:48:07pm |
re: #127 albusteve
you are such a nice person...I won't even reply to such a stupid post
You can be nice too. I've seen it happen. Forgot to write the date down, though.
| 133 |
albusteve Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:49:25pm |
re: #132 wrenchwench
You can be nice too. I've seen it happen. Forgot to write the date down, though.
I'm trying to keep it civil....the years fly by don't they?
| 134 |
b_sharp Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:50:25pm |
re: #127 albusteve
you are such a nice person...I won't even reply to such a stupid post
Steve, is this referring to Obdi's or Wrench's post?
| 135 |
Obdicut Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:50:42pm |
re: #131 wrenchwench
The removal of old-growth trees is not part of responsible fire prevention.
Here's a good article on the subject.
[Link: baltimorechronicle.com...]
The problem with Western national forests, logging industry representatives tell us, is that severe forest fires are burning because our forests have been left unmanaged and that environmentalists are holding up much-needed fuel treatments designed to reduce wildfire risks.
Logging advocates conveniently propose to remedy this mismanagement with a massive commercial "thinning" program across tens of millions of acres of federal lands, ostensibly to protect both forests and nearby homes from severe forest fires.
As with all good deceptions, this one contains some grains of truth.
Most experts now agree, for example, that in some areas excessively high levels of undergrowth can cause unnaturally severe fires, and that reducing these hazardous fuels is warranted.
Environmentalists agree. In fact, a recent General Accounting Office (GAO) report found that only 1% of Forest Service hazardous fuel reduction projects were challenged with appeals and none had been litigated.
Unfortunately, there are number of massive logging proposals, disguised as hazardous fuels treatments, that have put environmentalists at odds with the Forest Service. Nearly all of these proposals focus primarily on the removal of mature and old-growth trees. These proposals continue even with overwhelming evidence that commercial logging is more of a problem than a solution. There's simply a cognitive disconnect between the Forest Service's scientists and its timber sale planners, whose budgets are dependent upon selling valuable mature trees.
Ironically, this very type of logging, experts inform us, is likely to increase, not decrease, the frequency and severity of wildland fires.
In the Forest Service's own National Fire Plan, agency scientists warned against the use of commercial logging to address fire management. The report found that "the removal of large, merchantable trees from forests does not reduce fire risk and may, in fact, increase such risk."
Commercial thinning operations leave behind dry twigs and limbs, cause rapid growth of flammable shrubs and weeds, and reduce forest canopy closure, creating hotter, drier conditions on the ground.
Likewise, the Forest Service's proposals to do intensive logging deep into the forest -- far from any home -- is likely to put homes at greater risk of burning.What environmentalists are hoping to do is bring some common sense back to fuel reduction treatments by redirecting the Forest Service's energies and resources to where the treatments will do the most good: immediately adjacent to homes and within communities in the wildland-urban interface.
The Forest Service's expert on this issue, Jack Cohen, reports that logging on national forest lands isn't the answer. Cohen's research reveals that the only way to protect homes effectively is to reduce the flammability of the homes themselves and their immediate surroundings within 200 feet.
So when commercial logging to reduce fuels is proposed miles from communities, environmentalist object, reflecting the failure of the Forest Service to listen. The Forest Service's own science does not support these types of treatments, so the system of legal checks and balances recognizes what cannot be considered legitimate. The system isn't broke; in fact, it works best when the most dubious fuel reduction logging schemes are stopped by environmental laws meant to protect this kind of abuse, just as Congress envisioned.
| 136 |
albusteve Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:51:02pm |
| 137 |
Obdicut Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:52:00pm |
re: #136 albusteve
Don't be a wimp, Steve. Go ahead and say you found my post stupid. I really could care less. Then read the article above, and maybe learn something.
| 138 |
wrenchwench Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:52:12pm |
re: #135 Obdicut
I didn't say nuthin' about Old Growth.
| 139 |
albusteve Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:53:14pm |
re: #137 Obdicut
Don't be a wimp, Steve. Go ahead and say you found my post stupid. I really could care less. Then read the article above, and maybe learn something.
I did...
and nobody suggested that removal of the 'old growth' was acceptable
| 140 |
wrenchwench Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:53:39pm |
Most thinning projects have a size limit on the diameter of the trees they take out. Like 6". Definitely not Old Growth.
| 141 |
albusteve Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:55:33pm |
re: #140 wrenchwench
Most thinning projects have a size limit on the diameter of the trees they take out. Like 6". Definitely not Old Growth.
50 trees per acre is acceptable, not 1000...a mix of old growth and new...and get the detrius cleaned up...the loggers are willing to do this
| 142 |
Obdicut Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:55:43pm |
re: #138 wrenchwench
I didn't say nuthin' about Old Growth.
That's what the logging projects are-- they're about logging the old-growth. That's what environmentalists object to.
Commercial logging has no place in fire prevention. In isolated cases, where, as you say, we need to play catch-up because we haven't let the natural fire cycle take place in decades, we need to remove fuel-- but that's almost all the deadfall, the brush, and very little of the actual trees. Where it is the actual trees, it's generally because of a legacy of clearcutting, which is where you get trees growing up crowded against each other.
Commercial loggers are not interested in the small trees, and the lawsuits filed to stop commercial logging have nothing to do with the hazardous fuel removal efforts, as the article I cited shows.
| 143 |
b_sharp Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:56:05pm |
re: #140 wrenchwench
Most thinning projects have a size limit on the diameter of the trees they take out. Like 6". Definitely not Old Growth.
The thinning project going on on my head took out old growth and new growth hair.
It isn't picky.
| 144 |
Obdicut Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:57:33pm |
re: #141 albusteve
50 trees per acre is acceptable, not 1000...a mix of old growth and new...and get the detrius cleaned up...the loggers are willing to do this
No, Steve. The loggers want to log the mature trees. They have no interest in the small stuff.
There's tons of sustainable, valid, good logging being done-- lots of great plantation-style tree farming going on. It's cool how much the timber industry has changed and progressed over time.
But there's still plenty of logging companies that try, year after year, to log the shit out of national forests-- as they have for a long time-- and it's still a damn good thing that there are people who fight them on it.
The fires are not the responsibility of environmentalists, and it's really aggravatingly ignorant to say they are.
| 145 |
tigger2005 Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:58:20pm |
I wonder if she knows that John Wayne's real name was Marion Morrison.
| 146 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:58:34pm |
| 147 |
Obdicut Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:59:37pm |
re: #145 tigger2005
My favorite original name is Archibald Alexander Leach.
| 148 |
freetoken Mon, Jun 27, 2011 2:59:58pm |
The three candidates for GOP nomination for gov. of MS, during their debate, was asked the question "Who do you admire?"
Yeah, you can guess their answer pretty easily.
RR.
The GOP worships RR because... well, because he was the last national level GOP politician who played the mythos character well.
Interestingly, one of the candidates also mentioned GWB besides RR.
Anyway, of the 100 billion or so humans who have walked this planet, I notice that GOP candidates are required to admire collectively just one person: RR.
[Link: www.wapt.com...]
| 149 |
Obdicut Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:01:06pm |
re: #148 freetoken
But not real Ronald Reagan. Mythical Ronald Reagan, who didn't expand government or raise taxes, and wasn't a union leader.
| 150 |
freetoken Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:04:43pm |
re: #149 Obdicut
Yup, Reagan was invoked again by one candidate when taxes was discussed, complete with the myth:
[Link: www.wapt.com...]
| 151 |
albusteve Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:13:47pm |
Project Gunrunner' Whistleblower Says ATF Sent Him Termination Notice
The agent, Vince Cefalu, who has spoken out about the ATF's so-called "Project Gunrunner" scandal, says he was served with termination papers just last week, and he calls the move politically motivated.
lies!
Read more: [Link: www.foxnews.com...]
| 152 |
Vicious Michigan Union Thug Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:14:48pm |
re: #106 SanFranciscoZionist
Are there any men named after John Wayne who did well for themselves? Isn't there a single John Wayne Something who became a novelist, or opened a successful hardware store, or founded a nonprofit that fights malaria?
John Wayne wasn't even his real name. His real name was Marion Morrison.
| 153 |
freetoken Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:16:25pm |
It's a beautiful day in San Diego. It's like that most days.
Maybe that is the reason:
Poll: More California Voters Not Paying Attention
A quarter of California registered voters say they rarely pay attention to what's going on in government and politics, according to a new Field Poll released Monday.
In the survey, 41 percent say they follow political news most of the time while about 33 percent say they follow it some of the time.
The 25 percent who say they follow news of government and politics "only now and then (or) hardly at all" is up from 20 percent in 1999 and 16 percent in 1979.
Voters who consider themselves independents were the least likely to say they follow political news closely: Only 30 percent of nonpartisan voters said they paid close attention to political news, compared with 41 percent of Democrats and 50 percent of Republicans.
[...]
And while half of Northern California respondents said they follow political developments closely, only one in three registered voters in Los Angeles, Orange and San Diego counties said the same. Thirty-eight percent of respondents in other areas of Southern California reported closely following political news.
[...]
The choice of television news depends on one's political viewpoint, according to the survey. Democrats and independent voters were most likely to cite CNN and local TV news as their primary source, while Republicans cited Fox cable news. Other primary sources of news about politics were network news channels, Univision/Telemundo and Comedy Central.
[...]
| 154 |
rhino2 Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:17:48pm |
re: #149 Obdicut
But not real Ronald Reagan. Mythical Ronald Reagan, who didn't expand government or raise taxes, and wasn't a union leader.
And didn't work to reduce our nuclear arsenal, and didn't sign any amnesty bills, and, and, and.
It's like they remember nega-Reagan.
| 157 |
rhino2 Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:22:36pm |
re: #154 rhino2
And I'm 24 by the way, I couldn't even read until Reagan had been out of office for a couple of years, and I know this stuff.
History is hard I guess? All that reading...
| 158 |
freetoken Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:23:56pm |
It's a beautiful day... I think I'll go for a walk instead of reading headlines...
| 159 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:25:51pm |
re: #158 freetoken
It's a beautiful day... I think I'll go for a walk instead of reading headlines...
Socialist Freetoken spotted using public sidewalks! Film at 11.
| 160 |
engineer cat Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:26:31pm |
re: #149 Obdicut
But not real Ronald Reagan. Mythical Ronald Reagan, who didn't expand government or raise taxes, and wasn't a union leader.
as with newt gingrich, if you quote ronald reagan's actual words or deeds, you're lying
| 161 |
Gus Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:26:57pm |
Charles, did you apologize to Breitbart yet?
//
Why do some of these wingnut Twitter dweebs send me Tweets as if though I'm Charles's agent or mommy? Cripes a mighty they're so unbelievably dorky.
| 162 |
wrenchwench Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:27:09pm |
re: #142 Obdicut
That's what the logging projects are-- they're about logging the old-growth. That's what environmentalists object to.
Commercial logging has no place in fire prevention. In isolated cases, where, as you say, we need to play catch-up because we haven't let the natural fire cycle take place in decades, we need to remove fuel-- but that's almost all the deadfall, the brush, and very little of the actual trees. Where it is the actual trees, it's generally because of a legacy of clearcutting, which is where you get trees growing up crowded against each other.
Commercial loggers are not interested in the small trees, and the lawsuits filed to stop commercial logging have nothing to do with the hazardous fuel removal efforts, as the article I cited shows.
Not all logging projects are about taking old growth trees. Not all thinning projects are about logging. Not all thinning projects are commercial. Commercial loggers don't want to restore forests, they want to make a buck. That's not what I'm talking about.
There are thinning projects done by the Forest Service or contractors. There are a few projects, one I know of personally, where the little trees that are taken out are used for furniture and vigas, and the slash is made into commercial gardening and other products.
I don't disagree with anything in the article you posted. I'm not saying we need more logging. But I do disagree with your middle paragraph where you say, "we need to remove fuel-- but that's almost all the deadfall, the brush, and very little of the actual trees." There are a ton of trees involved. I'm talking about the southwest. We don't have that much undergrowth. We have grass under the trees. We have to keep the fire down in the grass. To do that, we need to thin the trees, or burn 'em.
| 163 |
Stanghazi Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:28:07pm |
re: #158 freetoken
It's a beautiful day... I think I'll go for a walk instead of reading headlines...
It is a beautiful day no doubt.
| 164 |
Henchman 25 Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:28:31pm |
| 165 |
engineer cat Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:29:12pm |
Mythical Ronald Reagan
"ok, since republicans think that the government and the media are still run by liberals, um, exactly what did ronald reagan actually accomplish?"
"he defeated the soviet union and ended communism"
"i see. so, could you describe to me how he did that?"
| 166 |
albusteve Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:29:43pm |
re: #164 SteelPH
Hatred detected. Fire the Orbital Friendship Beam.
I don't hate anybody or anything about LGF...I'm not that deep in, but thanks for the reminder
| 167 |
Kragar Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:31:10pm |
re: #152 Alouette
John Wayne wasn't even his real name. His real name was Marion Morrison.
Isn't Marion a girl's name?
| 169 |
wrenchwench Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:35:21pm |
re: #168 Gus 802
Oh. We're on fires. Anyone have a match?
//
If'n youse on fires, you'n don need no match. You be needin a hose.
| 170 |
wrenchwench Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:36:00pm |
re: #166 albusteve
I don't hate anybody or anything about LGF...I'm not that deep in, but thanks for the reminder
I think the beam worked!
| 171 |
Varek Raith Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:36:40pm |
| 172 |
watching you tiny alien kittens are Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:37:31pm |
re: #1 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Quick, send in the Light Brigade to rescue her!
But that was a blunder!
Half a league, half a league,
Half a league onward,
All in the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
"Forward, the Light Brigade!
"Charge for the guns!" he said:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.2.
"Forward, the Light Brigade!"
Was there a man dismay'd?
Not tho' the soldier knew
Someone had blunder'd:
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.3.
Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
Volley'd and thunder'd;
Storm'd at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of Hell
Rode the six hundred.4.
Flash'd all their sabres bare,
Flash'd as they turn'd in air,
Sabring the gunners there,
Charging an army, while
All the world wonder'd:
Plunged in the battery-smoke
Right thro' the line they broke;
Cossack and Russian
Reel'd from the sabre stroke
Shatter'd and sunder'd.
Then they rode back, but not
Not the six hundred.5.
Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon behind them
Volley'd and thunder'd;
Storm'd at with shot and shell,
While horse and hero fell,
They that had fought so well
Came thro' the jaws of Death
Back from the mouth of Hell,
All that was left of them,
Left of six hundred.6.
When can their glory fade?
O the wild charge they made!
All the world wondered.
Honor the charge they made,
Honor the Light Brigade,
Noble six hundred.
-Alfred Tennyson, 1870
| 173 |
Gus Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:38:44pm |
re: #169 wrenchwench
If'n youse on fires, you'n don need no match. You be needin a hose.
Or fire retardant. Haven't seen much around here yet. They had some bigger ones back towards Denver. Had to evacuate some Northwest of Boulder. It's really a part of life around there. Especially when you're dealing with lightning strikes. In many areas fires have essentially become a part of the ecosystem. We'll all get by. Would be a good idea to have large fire fighting crews in the USA but we're so busy fighting wars on every corner of the world that we've forgotten that we have a country to run.
| 174 |
Obdicut Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:40:06pm |
re: #162 wrenchwench
Not all logging projects are about taking old growth trees. Not all thinning projects are about logging. Not all thinning projects are commercial. Commercial loggers don't want to restore forests, they want to make a buck. That's not what I'm talking about.
.
I'm only talking about the commercial logging projects. It's all I've ever been talking about.
I don't disagree with anything in the article you posted. I'm not saying we need more logging. But I do disagree with your middle paragraph where you say, "we need to remove fuel-- but that's almost all the deadfall, the brush, and very little of the actual trees." There are a ton of trees involved. I'm talking about the southwest. We don't have that much undergrowth. We have grass under the trees. We have to keep the fire down in the grass. To do that, we need to thin the trees, or burn 'em
Then that sounds like a regional difference. Sorry, my bad. I'm used to NorCal and the Pacific Northwest.
But still, my point was that the problem is not environmentalists-- who, even if every single one of their objections was idiotic, only objected to one out of a hundred hazardous fuel removal projects. Blaming forest fires on environmentalists is not only foolish, it's an active smear campaign and it gets my dander right up.
| 175 |
elizajane Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:41:04pm |
re: #1 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Quick, send in the Light Brigade to rescue her!
I think it would be the Lightweight Brigade that would come to Bachmann's rescue.
| 176 |
Obdicut Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:41:21pm |
re: #167 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Isn't Marion a girl's name?
| 177 |
watching you tiny alien kittens are Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:42:43pm |
re: #168 Gus 802
Oh. We're on fires. Anyone have a match?
//
We don't need no water, let the MotherFu**er burn...
| 178 |
wrenchwench Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:43:13pm |
re: #173 Gus 802
Or fire retardant. Haven't seen much around here yet. They had some bigger ones back towards Denver. Had to evacuate some Northwest of Boulder. It's really a part of life around there. Especially when you're dealing with lightning strikes. In many areas fires have essentially become a part of the ecosystem. We'll all get by. Would be a good idea to have large fire fighting crews in the USA but we're so busy fighting wars on every corner of the world that we've forgotten that we have a country to run.
You should see the fire crews. They are impressive. They come from all over, and are migrant workers. There are Apache fire crews, Navajo fire crews, private contractor fire crews with illegal aliens on 'em, lots of young men, a few young women, and some really smart old guys keeping 'em all safe. They had almost 5,000 personnel on the Wallow Fire at its peak, and only 15 injuries so far.
| 179 |
Jeff In Ohio Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:44:11pm |
John Wayne Gacy was from Chicago. His ties to Waterloo are about as significant as John Wayne's.
On the other hand, rabid homophobe Michele's hero John Wayne palled around with teh gay.
| 180 |
wrenchwench Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:45:44pm |
re: #174 Obdicut
I'm only talking about the commercial logging projects. It's all I've ever been talking about.
We had a little cross-up. I was never talking about commercial loggers.
Then that sounds like a regional difference. Sorry, my bad. I'm used to NorCal and the Pacific Northwest.
But still, my point was that the problem is not environmentalists-- who, even if every single one of their objections was idiotic, only objected to one out of a hundred hazardous fuel removal projects. Blaming forest fires on environmentalists is not only foolish, it's an active smear campaign and it gets my dander right up.
Yes yes yes, 100% agree. That's what I was coming down on Steve for.
| 181 |
albusteve Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:47:38pm |
re: #180 wrenchwench
We had a little cross-up. I was never talking about commercial loggers.
Yes yes yes, 100% agree. That's what I was coming down on Steve for.
I blame liberals...it's fashionable...
liberals hate the forest...and with that I fit right in here
| 182 |
jvic Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:49:33pm |
| 183 |
Gus Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:49:35pm |
re: #178 wrenchwench
You should see the fire crews. They are impressive. They come from all over, and are migrant workers. There are Apache fire crews, Navajo fire crews, private contractor fire crews with illegal aliens on 'em, lots of young men, a few young women, and some really smart old guys keeping 'em all safe. They had almost 5,000 personnel on the Wallow Fire at its peak, and only 15 injuries so far.
Supposed to get some showers here tomorrow. Well, 30 percent chance throughout the day. Been pretty dry otherwise but I understand that's normal for summer. Showers will help though for mitigating any future wildfires. There was some guy talking about running a fire crew at the store I've been going to. Drives around in a big old black pick-up with a huge American flag.
| 184 |
Obdicut Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:50:05pm |
re: #180 wrenchwench
Yeah, sorry about that. I was loose about saying 'logging' when what I meant was commercial logging, and I didn't account for regional variations.
A friend of mine is a smoke jumper. Well, he just retired from field service, but still uses every excuse he can to get back in there. He's some sort of 'inspector' now, but he's got the use of a truck so he tends to do his inspecting right up at the fire line. He survived a fire actually burning over him by doing a pre-burn and using that insulated blanket shelter thingy.
Craziest bastard I know, but damn good at his job. He jumped into more than a hundred fires in his career. Macho as all get out.
Also gay as the day is long, in that ultra-butch way.
| 185 |
watching you tiny alien kittens are Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:50:09pm |
re: #179 Jeff In Ohio
John Wayne Gacy was from Chicago. His ties to Waterloo are about as significant as John Wayne's.
On the other hand, rabid homophobe Michele's hero John Wayne palled around with teh gay.
I actually have a few of those photos where the "duke" isn't looking quite so hetero. Still there seems no point in posting them without any corroborative evidence, looks can be deceiving. Besides if the Duke was gay or bi and didn't want to come out why should we try to do it for him?
| 186 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:50:26pm |
Pic of the day....
[Link: nymag.com...]
| 187 |
Varek Raith Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:50:54pm |
| 188 |
Gus Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:51:30pm |
re: #181 albusteve
I blame liberals...it's fashionable...
liberals hate the forest...and with that I fit right in here
Liberals? No way. I blame the 50s Beat poets.
/
| 190 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:52:42pm |
Chris Matthews: I Know Bachmann, Chris Wallace’s ‘Flake’ Question ‘Hurt Her Feelings’
I'm already starting to cringe. It's almost like watching Trump at the roast, I'm starting to feel sorry for Bachmann, she's just so out of her depth and it's only going to get worse.
| 191 |
Obdicut Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:52:47pm |
| 192 |
Gus Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:52:55pm |
Oops. What was I thinking. Atheists are the ones that cause forest fires!
//
| 193 |
Varek Raith Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:53:25pm |
re: #192 Gus 802
Oops. What was I thinking. Atheists are the ones that cause forest fires!
//
Man, screw you!
I only started the ones in Texas.
Jerk.
| 194 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:53:39pm |
re: #187 Varek Raith
Pat Robertson: God Will Destroy America Because of Gay Marriage
LOL
I think it's a safe bet Robertson is destroyed long before the country is. Who does god hate more?
| 195 |
Varek Raith Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:54:14pm |
re: #194 Killgore Trout
I think it's a safe bet Robertson is destroyed long before the country is. Who does god hate more?
"Oh geez"
-God on Pat Robertson
| 196 |
wrenchwench Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:54:49pm |
re: #184 Obdicut
Yeah, sorry about that. I was loose about saying 'logging' when what I meant was commercial logging, and I didn't account for regional variations.
A friend of mine is a smoke jumper. Well, he just retired from field service, but still uses every excuse he can to get back in there. He's some sort of 'inspector' now, but he's got the use of a truck so he tends to do his inspecting right up at the fire line. He survived a fire actually burning over him by doing a pre-burn and using that insulated blanket shelter thingy.
Craziest bastard I know, but damn good at his job. He jumped into more than a hundred fires in his career. Macho as all get out.
Also gay as the day is long, in that ultra-butch way.
Those guys are heroes. Crazy, yes. But in a heroic way. Besides the very real possibility of getting killed, they jump out of a plane with no plans of returning to civilization for two weeks. And if they jump into wilderness, they come out on foot or on a mule.
| 197 |
watching you tiny alien kittens are Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:55:10pm |
re: #187 Varek Raith
Pat Robertson: God Will Destroy America Because of Gay Marriage
LOL
See this thread...
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
| 198 |
blueraven Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:55:33pm |
re: #181 albusteve
I blame liberals...it's fashionable...
liberals hate the forest...and with that I fit right in here
Havent you ever seen A Midsummer Night's Dream? It has magical fairies, it takes place in the forest...liberals love it, ergo, the liberals love the forest.
/
| 199 |
Gus Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:56:19pm |
Pfft. If I were God I'd destroy America because of reality television and the Real Housewives of New York. Not gays.
//
| 200 |
Varek Raith Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:56:54pm |
re: #199 Gus 802
Pfft. If I were God I'd destroy America because of reality television and the Real Housewives of New York. Not gays.
//
Clam shell packaging.
| 201 |
Gus Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:57:42pm |
Right. So this God would give Hitler's Germany a pass and Stalin's Soviet Union a pass. But instead decide to destroy America because of a few gay people getting married. Yep. Right. That sounds logical for a "God".
//
| 202 |
Obdicut Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:58:11pm |
re: #196 wrenchwench
He has all kinds of awesome stories about coming out of the fires. Some of the time he's got a transponder and they can actually find him after and get him out, sometimes he's hiked out. One time he came out of the wilderness with a boyfriend-- he'd found the guy's camp, the guy'd shared his food with him and appreciated his bravery appropriately, one thing led to another, bow chicka bow bow.
| 203 |
albusteve Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:58:23pm |
re: #199 Gus 802
Pfft. If I were God I'd destroy America because of reality television and the Real Housewives of New York. Not gays.
//
if I were God I'd take a Mulligan and start over...his first attempt is a dismal failure...he needs to learn from his mistakes
| 205 |
jvic Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:59:17pm |
re: #196 wrenchwench
Those guys are heroes. Crazy, yes. But in a heroic way. Besides the very real possibility of getting killed, they jump out of a plane with no plans of returning to civilization for two weeks. And if they jump into wilderness, they come out on foot or on a mule.
I value, salute and thank people like that, be they warriors, EMTs, smoke jumpers, whatever. We need them.
But they shouldn't be in charge.
(Unless things are so dire that there's nothing to lose.)
| 207 |
Kid A Mon, Jun 27, 2011 4:00:47pm |
re: #201 Gus 802
Right. So this God would give Hitler's Germany a pass and Stalin's Soviet Union a pass. But instead decide to destroy America because of a few gay people getting married. Yep. Right. That sounds logical for a "God".
//
About as logical as a seven-year-old child dying of bone cancer and someone saying "It was God's intent."
| 208 |
darthstar Mon, Jun 27, 2011 4:00:55pm |
Unrelated - but cute. Space invaders in area 51
Image: tumblr_lm8bdrceNu1qzvd2to1_400.jpg
| 209 |
darthstar Mon, Jun 27, 2011 4:01:39pm |
re: #208 darthstar
Unrelated - but cute. Space invaders in area 51
Image: tumblr_lm8bdrceNu1qzvd2to1_400.jpg
By the way...one of the best video games ever created...just sayin'...you can keep your big-tittied car thief fantasy games.
| 210 |
Kragar Mon, Jun 27, 2011 4:01:44pm |
re: #207 Kid A
About as logical as a seven-year-old child dying of bone cancer and someone saying "It was God's intent."
If God does have plan, he's got some serious fucking explaining to do.
| 211 |
Varek Raith Mon, Jun 27, 2011 4:02:54pm |
re: #210 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
If God does have plan, he's got some serious fucking explaining to do.
So do the Cylons.
| 212 |
Gus Mon, Jun 27, 2011 4:03:30pm |
re: #207 Kid A
About as logical as a seven-year-old child dying of bone cancer and someone saying "It was God's intent."
I was just thinking. It would be like a cop driving by three murders taking place and a rape and finally deciding to stop and arrest a gay guy just for being gay instead.
| 213 |
watching you tiny alien kittens are Mon, Jun 27, 2011 4:03:51pm |
re: #201 Gus 802
Right. So this God would give Hitler's Germany a pass and Stalin's Soviet Union a pass. But instead decide to destroy America because of a few gay people getting married. Yep. Right. That sounds logical for a "God".
//
Have you not noticed that Hitler's Germany and Stalin's CCCP were destroyed? God may be really, really, really slow and extremely poor at smiting the people he is actually aiming at, but eventually, say within 80 years or so, he always strikes those that offend him down!
Be afraid, very afraid of the Lords wrath!
| 215 |
A Man for all Seasons Mon, Jun 27, 2011 4:03:53pm |
re: #203 albusteve
if I were God I'd take a Mulligan and start over...his first attempt is a dismal failure...he needs to learn from his mistakes
Didn't he flood the world and start over?
Every one tries to put God in a box.. That is religions first mistake
| 216 |
Kid A Mon, Jun 27, 2011 4:04:13pm |
re: #210 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
If God does have plan, he's got some serious fucking explaining to do.
| 217 |
watching you tiny alien kittens are Mon, Jun 27, 2011 4:05:20pm |
re: #203 albusteve
if I were God I'd take a Mulligan and start over...his first attempt is a dismal failure...he needs to learn from his mistakes
He did, hence the Noah/flood story, but then he promised to never do that again, he is stuck with us now... :(
| 218 |
wrenchwench Mon, Jun 27, 2011 4:07:00pm |
re: #205 jvic
I value, salute and thank people like that, be they warriors, EMTs, smoke jumpers, whatever. We need them.
But they shouldn't be in charge.
(Unless things are so dire that there's nothing to lose.)
The best of 'em get promoted. They're in charge right now!
Auuuugh!
*runs around screaming*
| 219 |
Gus Mon, Jun 27, 2011 4:07:16pm |
re: #213 ausador
Have you not noticed that Hitler's Germany and Stalin's CCCP were destroyed? God may be really, really, really slow and extremely poor at smiting the people he is actually aiming at, but eventually, say within 80 years or so, he always strikes those that offend him down!
Be afraid, very afraid of the Lords wrath!
I thought Germany was the banking and technological center of Europe and Russia is making hand over fist with gas and oil exploration. He also forgot about China who's also accelerating fast into riches with increased productivity including wind turbines and high speed trains. ;)
| 221 |
jvic Mon, Jun 27, 2011 4:09:46pm |
re: #203 albusteve
if I were God I'd take a Mulligan and start over...his first attempt is a dismal failure...he needs to learn from his mistakes
Cf. Robert Heinlein's The Unpleasant Profession of Jonathan Hoag.
| 223 |
watching you tiny alien kittens are Mon, Jun 27, 2011 4:12:37pm |
re: #219 Gus 802
I thought Germany was the banking and technological center of Europe and Russia is making hand over fist with gas and oil exploration. He also forgot about China who's also accelerating fast into riches with increased productivity including wind turbines and high speed trains. ;)
Well Praise God for raising them back up and giving them the chance to witness his glory to the rest of the world!
/ (sigh, or that is what Mom would have said logic be damned)
| 224 |
Kid A Mon, Jun 27, 2011 4:13:13pm |
| 225 |
Gus Mon, Jun 27, 2011 4:13:32pm |
Have you all heard about Blogovich?
Guilty again. He's looking at possibly 300 years.
| 226 |
albusteve Mon, Jun 27, 2011 4:14:16pm |
re: #225 Gus 802
Have you all heard about Blogovich?
Guilty again. He's looking at possibly 300 years.
what'd he do?...smoke a joint in the park?
| 228 |
Gus Mon, Jun 27, 2011 4:14:56pm |
re: #226 albusteve
what'd he do?...smoke a joint in the park?
Nah. He cooked a steak in downtown Berkeley.
//
| 229 |
BongCrodny Mon, Jun 27, 2011 4:15:31pm |
re: #225 Gus 802
Have you all heard about Blogovich?
Guilty again. He's looking at possibly 300 years.
I'll bet his hair makes it the full 300.
| 230 |
Kid A Mon, Jun 27, 2011 4:16:04pm |
re: #225 Gus 802
Have you all heard about Blogovich?
Guilty again. He's looking at possibly 300 years.
Just think, if man hadn't fallen to Satan's temptations, he'd be out of jail when he was 352 with a full life ahead.
| 232 |
albusteve Mon, Jun 27, 2011 4:17:12pm |
| 233 |
Jimmah Mon, Jun 27, 2011 4:17:25pm |
Michele Bachmann Says, 'I'm Like John Wayne'
Well, John Wayne was a member of the Birch Society.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
| 234 |
Eclectic Infidel Mon, Jun 27, 2011 4:18:13pm |
re: #187 Varek Raith
Pat Robertson: God Will Destroy America Because of Gay Marriage
LOL
I know a Christian (of the whacky fundamentalist variety) Zionist who is 110% that gay marriage is one of the major signs of the End Times. Well, that and the fact that Jews still haven't abandoned thousands of years of tradition in favor of Jesus.
| 235 |
Hawaii69 Mon, Jun 27, 2011 4:18:38pm |
re: #127 albusteve
you are such a nice person...I won't even reply to such a stupid post
Nothing stupid about his post, bitterman.
It's true. The problem isn't the trees, but the brush/tinder on the
forest floor. That's what initially spreads fire. "Maintenance Logging"
has little to do with preventing fires. It's logging pushed through under the guise of fire prevention.
To really clean up forested areas to prevent fires, you'd be spending
90% of your times clearing brush, undergrowth, and dead snags....not anything worthy of commercial logging.
I'm no fire behaviour expert, but I've taken the training. I've fought fires on type 2 wildland crews.
| 236 |
Ericus58 Mon, Jun 27, 2011 4:27:47pm |
re: #162 wrenchwench
Not all logging projects are about taking old growth trees. Not all thinning projects are about logging. Not all thinning projects are commercial. Commercial loggers don't want to restore forests, they want to make a buck. That's not what I'm talking about.
There are thinning projects done by the Forest Service or contractors. There are a few projects, one I know of personally, where the little trees that are taken out are used for furniture and vigas, and the slash is made into commercial gardening and other products.
My wife worked for a company that has tree farms as it's core business, family owned since 1864. They are good stewards of the land, and a very good company to work for.
[Link: www.portblakely.com...]
"After each harvest, the land is quickly replanted, ensuring a new forest grows tall long before the next harvest. Our forest practices have been independently certified as meeting the standards of the Sustainable Forestry Initiative®, a national program dedicated to forest stewardship. This certification means we protect natural, cultural, and environmental resources, and that we grow more wood than we harvest.
Of the lands we own, we harvest less than two percent in any given year."
In regards to thinning their stands:
"Managing Our Forests
Port Blakely Tree Farms is committed to managing our forests in a sustainable way. We plant more than one million trees each year, knowing we'll be caring for these stands for the next generation of foresters.
Our seedlings are planted by hand, and we monitor them to ensure that they grow strongly and vigorously. As a young forest matures, we periodically thin it to promote growth and prevent disease."
Now in respect to minimizing fire impact by thinning, I'm mot sure that is a primary reason. However, I know of no serious fire issues impacting their operations in recent history.
At one time, the company had tree farm operations in New Zealand, and the wood used for the masts for the ship(s) in Pirates of the Caribbean first movie came from their land.
Oh, at one time there was a possible opportunity for my wife to relocate there....
| 237 |
wrenchwench Mon, Jun 27, 2011 4:28:08pm |
re: #235 Hawaii69
I'm no fire behaviour expert, but I've taken the training. I've fought fires on type 2 wildland crews.
Where have you worked?
| 238 |
Ericus58 Mon, Jun 27, 2011 4:34:50pm |
My REAL reason though for coming back on today was to share a poem I heard driving home from work ;)
Siren
by Robert Hass
Here is the poem I meant to write
But didn't
Because you walked into my study
Without any clothes on.
I had just been thinking of how the Aegean sun
Must have lit up the faces of Troy's fallen heroes
When you walked into my study
Without any clothes on—
Walked in and stood there,
Holding a glass of sherry
Over your left breast,
Which looked soft and firm as Brie.
Your tone of voice this morning
Should have warned me
That you might walk into my study
Without any clothes on.
I should have lashed myself to my chair
And stoppered my ears with wax.
But I forgot.
And I'm glad I forgot
Because when you walked into my study
Without any clothes on
You sang sweetly, sang sweetly,
And I died nobly, like a man.
And I love the Siren in my life.
So, I hope this poem gives a few of the folks here at LGF a possible idea for this evenings pursuits....
| 239 |
Obdicut Mon, Jun 27, 2011 4:36:10pm |
re: #236 Ericus58
Thinning planted forests makes sense. Thinning natural growth forests does not.
| 240 |
jvic Mon, Jun 27, 2011 4:41:18pm |
re: #233 Jimmah
Well, John Wayne was a member of the Birch Society.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
Jimmah, that was news to me and I thank you for the information. Two partial demurrals, however:
1. I clicked through to Wikipedia's WaPo reference:
...J. Edgar Hoover, after a background check on Wayne, refused to approve him. Wayne's erstwhile membership in the John Birch Society was the reason, even though he had given up on the organization after it denounced fluoridation of water supplies as a communist plot.
2. The Wikipedia sentences following the statement about Wayne's JBS affiliation are:
Soviet documents released in 2003 revealed, despite being a fan of Wayne's movies, Joseph Stalin ordered Wayne's assassination due to his strong anti-communist politics. Stalin died before the killing could be accomplished. His successor, Nikita Khrushchev, reportedly told Wayne during a 1959 visit to the United States that he had personally rescinded the order
Even paranoids can have enemies who plot against them.
| 241 |
Gus Mon, Jun 27, 2011 4:42:00pm |
re: #239 Obdicut
Thinning planted forests makes sense. Thinning natural growth forests does not.
What you want to thin is dead underbrush or dead fallen trees. Of course some of the fallen trees become habitat for certain species of animals and insects. The main problem is the dead underbrush. The fuel or the kindling. That's about the best we can do. In the case of Arizona we're talking millions and millions of acres.
| 242 |
albusteve Mon, Jun 27, 2011 4:48:50pm |
re: #239 Obdicut
Thinning planted forests makes sense. Thinning natural growth forests does not.
thinning carrots make sense?
| 243 |
Gus Mon, Jun 27, 2011 4:51:15pm |
Oh brother. I see the TSA was hard at work making this old lady take off her diaper during an enhanced private body search.
At first I was a little supportive of the TSA. I think now that they've jumped the shark in trying to seem equal in their application of their searches.
More here.
| 244 |
Gus Mon, Jun 27, 2011 4:57:49pm |
Grandma flies to her children's home to visit the grandchildren only to wind up getting a cavity search by some braindead numbskull that was fired by the DMV and hired by the TSA.
//
| 245 |
Gus Mon, Jun 27, 2011 5:00:15pm |
Eh. Nevermind.
The woman's daughter, Jean Weber, told CNN on Monday that the TSA agents acted professionally and never ordered the removal of her mother's diaper. However, Weber said the agents made it clear that her mother could not board the plane unless they were able to inspect the diaper.
According to Weber, it was her idea to remove the diaper so it could be inspected and they could make their flight.
| 246 |
Gepetto Mon, Jun 27, 2011 5:09:34pm |
re: #40 darthstar
thats just silly, why would she praise a democrat like Gacy?
| 247 |
Ericus58 Mon, Jun 27, 2011 5:10:16pm |
re: #245 Gus 802
Eh. Nevermind.
"However, Weber said the agents made it clear that her mother could not board the plane unless they were able to inspect the diaper.
According to Weber, it was her idea to remove the diaper so it could be inspected and they could make their flight."
Well, they may not has told her explicitly to remove it but they sure didn't give her an acceptable out.
My daily has the account also, and quite truthfully it paints a fucked up scene.
[Link: seattletimes.nwsource.com...]
"During the pat-down, Transportation Security Administration inspectors found a mass on Lena Reppert's upper thigh, her daughter Jean Weber said. The mass was a hard spot on the diaper that had become heavy and concentrated in that place because it was wet. Reppert, who is in a wheelchair, had to be patted down because she couldn't go through a scanning machine, and the TSA agents said they could not search the diaper while she was still wearing it, Weber said.
Reppert couldn't board a June 18 flight from Northwest Florida Regional Airport in Fort Walton Beach to Detroit until she was cleared by security, Weber said. Reppert, who has leukemia and had been living in the Florida Panhandle, was returning to her native Hastings, Mich., where she wants to be buried.
Weber, a waitress, said she was told the diaper would have to be removed so the agents could finish their pat-down. They had not packed any extra diapers in their carry-on because her mother has never needed backups before.
"She had to remove them," Weber said. "She would not be cleared with those Depends on."
TSA officials said the agency's inspectors did nothing wrong and followed proper procedure. Spokesman Nick Kimball also said the officers did not force Reppert to remove the diaper.
"While every person and item must be screened before entering the secure boarding area, TSA works with passengers to resolve security alarms in a respectful and sensitive manner," Kimball said.
Officials offered to pull their luggage off the plane so Reppert could change into a clean diaper, but Weber said she feared her mother, a retired nurse, would miss her flight.
"She is frail. I had arranged for these times because it's the time she was the strongest every day," Weber said. "I just did not want to put her through some kind of wait."
However, Weber said the agents would not allow her to remove the diaper in the screening room - so she had to take her mother to a restroom outside the security area, and then wait in line to be screened again. The second time, Weber said she triggered an alarm herself because she was upset and crying.
They tested her purse for chemicals while her mother finished her pat-down in private, she said. By then, she had lost her pass allowing her to escort her mother to her gate and asked airport workers to take the woman."
Obviously there were no adults with common sense and decency available...
| 249 |
Obdicut Mon, Jun 27, 2011 5:12:46pm |
re: #247 Ericus58
It sucks. I don't actually think that the random searches are the way to do security-- behavior is the best way.
However, there is no reason why any specific person should be exempted. The Taliban are using 8 year old girls. They'd use grandmas too, if they got the chance.
I don't think the way we do security is good, I think it makes people uncooperative, but, given that this is the way we do things, we can't just say "Oh, she's a grandma, let her through."
| 250 |
jvic Mon, Jun 27, 2011 5:17:46pm |
re: #245 Gus 802
Eh. Nevermind.
The woman's daughter, Jean Weber, told CNN on Monday that the TSA agents acted professionally and never ordered the removal of her mother's diaper. However, Weber said the agents made it clear that her mother could not board the plane unless they were able to inspect the diaper.According to Weber, it was her idea to remove the diaper so it could be inspected and they could make their flight.
That's relevant information, but I won't go as far as 'nevermind'.
How did the TSA propose to inspect the 95-year-old's diaper in a respectful manner?
| 251 |
Ericus58 Mon, Jun 27, 2011 5:19:58pm |
re: #249 Obdicut
It sucks. I don't actually think that the random searches are the way to do security-- behavior is the best way.
However, there is no reason why any specific person should be exempted. The Taliban are using 8 year old girls. They'd use grandmas too, if they got the chance.
I don't think the way we do security is good, I think it makes people uncooperative, but, given that this is the way we do things, we can't just say "Oh, she's a grandma, let her through."
Behavior monitoring is the best approach, but that would having well-trained staff - with a wage to keep them. And I think it would be warranted.
And I really do think there are methods available to them that doesn't impact the dignity of the traveling public - especially in instances like this one. If they could swab the handbags for residue...
I'm just fed up with the lack of working in a dignified manner that pop up by the TSA.
| 252 |
Obdicut Mon, Jun 27, 2011 5:23:56pm |
re: #251 Ericus58
It's a matter of numbers. We have shitloads of airports, shitloads of travelers. The number of staff we need is gigantic. Finding enough competent, motivated people would be an enormous challenge.
I've been confused for awhile about our airport security. We do it in a manner that creates gigantic lines, a perfect target for anyone who wants to kill lots of people. We let people drive up with big bags and get in among huge crowds. I am absolutely amazed no terrorist has blown up a security line yet, or something of that nature.
I have no idea what the best solution is, other than sophisticated scanning devices.
| 253 |
Ericus58 Mon, Jun 27, 2011 5:28:02pm |
re: #252 Obdicut
I've been confused for awhile about our airport security. We do it in a manner that creates gigantic lines, a perfect target for anyone who wants to kill lots of people. We let people drive up with big bags and get in among huge crowds. I am absolutely amazed no terrorist has blown up a security line yet, or something of that nature..
That, my brother, is my biggest "alert" time while in an airport.
After what happened in Russia earlier this year with the bomber attacking the baggage claim area....
| 254 |
jvic Mon, Jun 27, 2011 5:58:34pm |
I read statements like Israeli airport security works well, but it's not applicable here because our air network is too large and heterogeneous.
What do the Israelis think about such statements? Why not ask them?
Give them a contract for a design study on US airport security: a serious contract, with deliverables, periodic reviews, etc. Pay them enough to make it worth their while.
If we've already asked the Israelis, publicize their response. I suspect we haven't asked them. I suspect that the reasons we haven't asked have little to do with national security, and little to do with concern for the dignity and comfort of the individual American traveler. I'd like to be wrong.
| 255 |
Obdicut Mon, Jun 27, 2011 6:13:07pm |
re: #254 jvic
I really think it's just volume. Israel is a small country, with a very limited number of flights, and almost no domestic flights. The US is a huge country, with shitloads of domestic flights, as well as vast number of international flights.
What are these reasons you think are that we haven't asked them?
| 256 |
jvic Mon, Jun 27, 2011 6:52:28pm |
re: #255 Obdicut
What are these reasons you think are that we haven't asked them?
First and foremost, our ruling system--legislators, lobbyists, bureaucrats of various kinds, corporations, trade unionists, etc--reacts to the formation of something like TSA like turf is being created. There will be a competitive land rush in which none of the players will welcome an outside participant. Afaic neither Bush nor Obama has the strength, savvy and competence to overrule these special interests.
What will Muslims think if we involve Israel? Presumably this question was never asked, at least not as bluntly as I phrased it. Was it ever in the background, unspoken, during various deliberations? Maybe, maybe not.
| 257 |
Petero1818 Mon, Jun 27, 2011 6:57:43pm |
re: #251 Ericus58
Behavior monitoring is the best approach, but that would having well-trained staff - with a wage to keep them. And I think it would be warranted.
And I really do think there are methods available to them that doesn't impact the dignity of the traveling public - especially in instances like this one. If they could swab the handbags for residue...
I'm just fed up with the lack of working in a dignified manner that pop up by the TSA.
That is indeed the way it is done in Israel and even at every ElAl counter around the world. They are trained to not only ask questions, but to assess responses. I am fairly convinced that when the regular airline check in folks in the US ask if "you packed your own bags" you could answer "no I didn't" and half of them wouldn't notice.
When they ask that question at an El Al counter there is often a man with an Uzi looking over their shoulder, and they are looking directly into your eyes. They often ask questions that have no relevance whatsoever other than to watch your response. I have been asked all sorts of weird questions. It is however a very long arduous process that will make lines very long.
| 258 |
Obdicut Mon, Jun 27, 2011 10:02:15pm |
re: #256 jvic
First and foremost, our ruling system--legislators, lobbyists, bureaucrats of various kinds, corporations, trade unionists, etc--reacts to the formation of something like TSA like turf is being created. There will be a competitive land rush in which none of the players will welcome an outside participant. Afaic neither Bush nor Obama has the strength, savvy and competence to overrule these special interests.
Um, okay. You mean, people are making money off of it?
What will Muslims think if we involve Israel? Presumably this question was never asked, at least not as bluntly as I phrased it. Was it ever in the background, unspoken, during various deliberations? Maybe, maybe not.
No. We're holding hearings on Muslim extremism, for god's sake. The President just gave full-throated support to Israel. This is a pretty weird thing to think on your part.
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