Rick Perry Stands by Implied Threat to Fed Chief

Stickin’ to his guns
Wingnuts • Views: 27,416

Well, Rick Perry surprised me. I thought even Perry would have to realize that his statement implying Fed chairman Ben Bernanke should be lynched went way too far, and that he’d walk it back with one of the standard political non-denial denials.

Instead, Rick Perry’s campaign issued an official “clarification” … and didn’t disavow the implied threat of violence.

I asked Rick Perry’s spokesman if the campaign is offering clarification of his widely discussed suggestion yesterday that Texas would offer some “real ugly” frontier justice to Fed chairman Ben Bernanke if he were to print money between now and election day.

The spokesman, Mark Miner, emailed me this:

The Governor was expressing his frustration with the current economic situation and the out of control spending that persists in Washington. Most Americans would agree that spending more money is not the answer to the economic issues facing the country.

The important thing here is that this is the Perry camp’s official considered response — and he is not disavowing the implied threat in his original remarks. Instead, the campaign’s position seems to be that this was a legitimate expression of “frustration” with runaway Washington spending — one that other Americans surely share.

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89 comments
1 Obdicut  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:29:12am

So would it be okay for people to also be 'frustrated' with Perry, who used lots of Stimulus funds in Texas?

2 Bulworth  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:31:02am

So with 9-10% unemployment, and record private sector profits, the problem is "runaway spending in Washington"?

3 garhighway  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:31:36am

re: #1 Obdicut

So would it be okay for people to also be 'frustrated' with Perry, who used lots of Stimulus funds in Texas?

There's no point in being a linear thinker about this stuff. The Republican Party has gone severe ADD on us, unable to keep a thought in its head for more than 15 minutes.

4 jamesfirecat  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:31:56am

The Republicans party today seems to have two main strategies at the moment

1) TAX CUTS!

2) DOUBLE DOWN!

5 lawhawk  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:32:40am

re: #1 Obdicut

Heh. $24 billion in ARRA of 2009 was awarded; and just shy of $21 billion was spent.

6 Bulworth  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:32:49am

re: #4 jamesfirecat

The Republicans party today seems to have two main strategies at the moment

1) TAX CUTS!

2) DOUBLE DOWN!

And no monetary policy.

7 Alexzander  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:34:33am

Brought to you by KFC.

8 garhighway  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:35:22am

re: #7 Alexzander

Brought to you by KFC.

In the future, all restaurants will be Taco Bells.

9 makeitstop  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:36:05am

This really is going to be the real-life version of the Greg Stillson candidacy, isn't it?

To say something that stupid and incendiary, then to not walk it back an inch - damn.

I think Perry's gonna run into trouble on the stump, simply because he seems to think a Texas-style campaign will travel well to other states.

I can totally see him losing it in public somewhere along the line.

10 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:36:17am

Er, even with Redpot von Goodhair in the governor's chair, the rule of law still prevails in Texas, at least it does so long as the long arm of the Federal Government can make sure it does.
This is something I wish more Fed-hating libertarians would consider: The federal authorities are, and have historically been, a real shield against corrupt and oppressive local and state officials, a final appeal against everyone from the original KKK to George Wallace and Orval Faubus, and now Rick Perry and his anti-American philosophy.

11 Gus  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:37:11am

Just to give you an idea about what's going on in Texas I present Larry Kilgore:

At an Austin secessionist rally in August 2009, Kilgore stated that "I hate that [American] flag up there. I hate the United States government... They're an evil, corrupt government. They need to go. Sovereignty is not good enough. Secession is what we need! ...We hate the United States!" At the same rally later stated that secession wouldn't have to be violent, but that the U.S. might collapse similar to the Soviet Union. Later that day told some pro-health care reform protesters to, "Go back to the U.S. where you belong."

Although not an office holder "he got over 225,000 votes -- more than 18% of the total vote -- in his challenge to U.S. Senator John Cornyn in the Texas state Republican Party primary on March 4, 2008." That's nearly a 1/4 million Texas that believe in this rubbish.

12 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:38:27am

To clarify, the Perrysites won't touch a hair on Bernanke's head. Federal marshals would arrest them on the spot if they try.
This is just more of Perry's "all hat, no cattle" tough guy rhetoric.

13 jaunte  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:39:29am

Here comes the Rick Perry "No Apologies" campaign.

14 Alexzander  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:40:19am

I am beginning to suspect that Perry flames out early, to our great amusement.

They have already appointed him as Heir to the Republican Throne over at RedState, to the chagrin of many readers who actually believed the small government bullshit they have been fed for the last 2.5 years.

15 Obdicut  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:41:40am

re: #14 Alexzander

Maybe he's just being pushed to make Romney look sane by comparison.

16 garhighway  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:42:01am

re: #10 Shiplord Kirel

Er, even with Redpot von Goodhair in the governor's chair, the rule of law still prevails in Texas, at least it does so long as the long arm of the Federal Government can make sure it does.
This is something I wish more Fed-hating libertarians would consider: The federal authorities are, and have historically been, a real shield against corrupt and oppressive local and state officials, a final appeal against everyone from the original KKK to George Wallace and Orval Faubus, and now Rick Perry and his anti-American philosophy.

I would respectfully suggest that just because you disagree with him on the merits doesn't make him "anti-American". He may be a lousy human being and a terrible candidate, but I do not doubt his love of our country.

17 Gus  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:42:47am

re: #14 Alexzander

I am beginning to suspect that Perry flames out early, to our great amusement.

They have already appointed him as Heir to the Republican Throne over at RedState, to the chagrin of many readers who actually believed the small government bullshit they have been fed for the last 2.5 years.

I thought about that this morning. If Perry doesn't slow down -- he's already on 11 since day one -- he's going to get on people's nerves and fade fast. But I doubt that. The base will suck this shit up. They love this kind of talk. And there are millions of Americans that will buy this Rick Perry product.

18 theheat  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:43:26am

re: #12 Shiplord Kirel

That's basically been the chatter out of Texas for years. Big tough Texas gonna pull out a can of whupass to preserve the sanctity of our bodily fluids, make tree huggers tremble in fear, jail anyone who pees on the Alamo, blah blah blah. Puff out their chests and hitch up their britches and huff and puff 'til they blow everybody's house down.

The most Americanest roughest toughest straight talkin' straight shootin' God fearin' state in the union (until they secede).

Seriously fucking bored with it. But bravado is a huge part of the state's identity.

19 Kragar  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:43:38am

Terrorism - the use of violence or threat of violence to achieve political goals.

20 makeitstop  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:44:03am

re: #16 garhighway

I would respectfully suggest that just because you disagree with him on the merits doesn't make him "anti-American". He may be a lousy human being and a terrible candidate, but I do not doubt his love of our country.

The guy openly talked about secession from the US, and he kicked off his campaign by implying that the president himself hates this country.

That's a weird way to show 'love' for the country, by voicing a desire to break away from it.

21 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:44:23am

re: #4 jamesfirecat

The Republicans party today seems to have two main strategies at the moment

1) TAX CUTS! FOR THE BILLIIONAIRES!
2) DOUBLE DOWN!

Raise taxes on the poor (sales tax, social security & veterans pensions)

22 Alexzander  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:44:37am

re: #17 Gus 802

I thought about that this morning. If Perry doesn't slow down -- he's already on 11 since day one -- he's going to get on people's nerves and fade fast. But I doubt that. The base will suck this shit up. They love this kind of talk. And there are millions of Americans that will buy this Rick Perry product.

True. Perry has the best shot of being sold as "generic republican candidate."
AKA White, Christian, Southern, Male, 'with backbone.'

23 jaunte  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:44:48am

re: #19 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Ed Morissey is going to wave his MBF at you.

24 Kragar  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:45:37am

re: #23 jaunte

Ed Morissey is going to wave his MBF at you.

Ed can go eat a bag of dicks.

25 Gus  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:45:42am

re: #22 Alexzander

True. Perry has the best shot of being sold as "generic republican candidate."
AKA White, Christian, Southern, Male, 'with backbone.'

And a military veteran. He's the perfect GOP presidential package. George W. Bush on steroids. And he speaks Teabagger.

26 theheat  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:45:53am

re: #20 makeitstop

The guy openly talked about secession from the US, and he kicked off his campaign by implying that the president himself hates this country. That's a weird way to show 'love' for the country, by voicing a desire to break away from it.

Correction: that's exactly how it's done. It's been done like this with wild success, as a matter of fact. It's pretty much the default template for success.

27 wrenchwench  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:46:51am

re: #16 garhighway

I would respectfully suggest that just because you disagree with him on the merits doesn't make him "anti-American". He may be a lousy human being and a terrible candidate, but I do not doubt his love of our country.

He can love it and still act in ways that damage it. He loves America, sure, but wants to turn it into something it should never be.

28 jaunte  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:46:53am

re: #24 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

He's cross that pundits have gotten upset with Perry but not with Biden.

29 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:47:04am

Further confirmation.....

UPDATE: In a follow up question, I asked Perry spokesman Miner directly what Perry meant when he talked about Texas getting “ugly” with Bernanke. He replied:

“That the country is frustrated and the policies coming out of Washington appear to be making things worse.”


He's really sticking to it.

30 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:47:13am

Over at Media Matters, a commenter comments: I live in Texas. This whole new "Praise the Lord" persona of Perry's is rather bizarre. It just appeared out of nowhere. He's always been a member of the United Methodist Church. The Methodist Church has traditionally been a very liberal church . . . . certainly, not a fundamentalist church

31 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:47:52am

re: #16 garhighway

I would respectfully suggest that just because you disagree with him on the merits doesn't make him "anti-American". He may be a lousy human being and a terrible candidate, but I do not doubt his love of our country.

I'm not referring to his feelings, but to his ideology and values. Theocracy, elitism, and secessionism are contrary to traditional American principles (though not to frequent practice).

32 allegro  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:47:58am

I would dearly love to see Perry in a debate with Obama. Perry wouldn't even debate (former Houston Mayor) Bill White in the last election and Bill is as mild mannered as they come.

33 Gus  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:48:23am

re: #30 SanFranciscoZionist

Over at Media Matters, a commenter comments: I live in Texas. This whole new "Praise the Lord" persona of Perry's is rather bizarre. It just appeared out of nowhere. He's always been a member of the United Methodist Church. The Methodist Church has traditionally been a very liberal church . . . certainly, not a fundamentalist church

And this Film to be featured in Rick Perry rollout created by an atheist

34 Kragar  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:49:28am

re: #28 jaunte

He's cross that pundits have gotten upset with Perry but not with Biden.

Maybe Perry and the baggers should stop referring to the President as a tyrant, taking about 2nd amendment solutions, revolutions and lynchings and not give Biden more ammo.

35 Idle Drifter  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:49:31am

re: #19 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Terrorism - the use of violence or threat of violence to achieve political, religious, and/or ideological goals.

I still remember that definition from JROTC and Boot Camp.

36 garhighway  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:49:41am

re: #27 wrenchwench

He can love it and still act in ways that damage it. He loves America, sure, but wants to turn it into something it should never be.

I agree. I don't love the guy. I probably disagree with him on 99% of his positions. I think he'd make a terrible President.

But this trend of calling the other guy a traitor or anti-American or similar labels is a bad trend that ought not be encouraged. It is damaging to our national discourse.

37 CuriousLurker  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:50:01am

re: #18 theheat

The most Americanest roughest toughest straight talkin' straight shootin' God fearin' state in the union (until they secede).

38 jamesfirecat  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:50:31am

re: #36 garhighway

I agree. I don't love the guy. I probably disagree with him on 99% of his positions. I think he'd make a terrible President.

But this trend of calling the other guy a traitor or anti-American or similar labels is a bad trend that ought not be encouraged. It is damaging to our national discourse.

You don't get to be much more of a traitor than advocating secession.

39 Kragar  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:50:53am

re: #35 Idle Drifter

I still remember that definition from JROTC and Boot Camp.

Been a while here, but all 3 sum up the GOP right now.

40 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:50:53am

re: #33 Gus 802

And this Film to be featured in Rick Perry rollout created by an atheist

"The change we seek will never emanate out of Washington,' Rick Perry will say in the video."

Therefore, send me to Washington!!

41 Lidane  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:51:21am

re: #30 SanFranciscoZionist

Over at Media Matters, a commenter comments: I live in Texas. This whole new "Praise the Lord" persona of Perry's is rather bizarre. It just appeared out of nowhere. He's always been a member of the United Methodist Church. The Methodist Church has traditionally been a very liberal church . . . certainly, not a fundamentalist church

It's called pandering to the GOP base.

Perry is nothing more than a sleazy opportunist. Five years ago, you would never have heard him threaten to secede or echo the teabaggers or have that big religious nutbag tent revivial. It's all new, and it's all because that's where the GOP is these days and what it will take to get him elected.

This is why I call him Sarah Palin with actual political skills. He's a grifter, but one that can get elected because he's good at bullshit.

42 wrenchwench  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:51:24am

re: #36 garhighway

I agree. I don't love the guy. I probably disagree with him on 99% of his positions. I think he'd make a terrible President.

But this trend of calling the other guy a traitor or anti-American or similar labels is a bad trend that ought not be encouraged. It is damaging to our national discourse.

We don't agree. I'm saying that despite his love for America, he is acting in an anti-American way.

43 RadicalModerate  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:51:34am

re: #11 Gus 802

Just to give you an idea about what's going on in Texas I present Larry Kilgore:

Although not an office holder "he got over 225,000 votes -- more than 18% of the total vote -- in his challenge to U.S. Senator John Cornyn in the Texas state Republican Party primary on March 4, 2008." That's nearly a 1/4 million Texas that believe in this rubbish.

Something else to consider. He got this quarter of a million votes against John "Box Turtle" Cornyn, who a few years ago made this statement, regarding "liberal" judges:

"I don't know if there is a cause-and-effect connection, but we have seen some recent episodes of courthouse violence in this country. I wonder whether there may be some connection between the perception in some quarters on some occasions where judges are making political decisions yet are unaccountable to the public, that it builds up and builds up and building up to the point where some people engage in violence."
44 theheat  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:51:38am

re: #37 CuriousLurker

Perfection. You nailed it. Yosemite Sam with better hair.

45 garhighway  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:53:07am

re: #42 wrenchwench

We don't agree. I'm saying that despite his love for America, he is acting in an anti-American way.

We each draw the line where we think it ought to be. Calling Presidential candidates anti-American is where I draw it.

Actual mileage may vary.

46 allegro  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:53:18am

re: #30 SanFranciscoZionist

Over at Media Matters, a commenter comments: I live in Texas. This whole new "Praise the Lord" persona of Perry's is rather bizarre. It just appeared out of nowhere. He's always been a member of the United Methodist Church. The Methodist Church has traditionally been a very liberal church . . . certainly, not a fundamentalist church

As a Texas resident, I too have been surprised at his sudden display of piety. I never paid attention to - or cared - when, if, or where he went to church and certainly noticed the SBOE nonsense but the pray for rain day and that prayer meetin' thang is certainly new. A coincidence, without a doubt (koff) that it was just before he announced his presidential candidacy.

47 makeitstop  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:54:43am

re: #45 garhighway

We each draw the line where we think it ought to be. Calling Presidential candidates anti-American is where I draw it.

Actual mileage may vary.

Perry did just that yesterday, did he not?

48 Lidane  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:55:43am

re: #37 CuriousLurker

[Video]

Hey look -- a preview of a Perry/Obama debate. Neat.

49 Kragar  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:55:45am

Michele Bachmann: Gay Families Are Not ‘Families’


GREGORY: Can a gay couple who adopt children, in your mind, be considered a “family”?

BACHMANN: When it comes to marriage, and family, my opinion is that marriage is between a man and a woman. And I think that’s been my view —

GREGORY: So a gay couple with kids would not be considered a “family” to you?

BACHMANN: You know, all of these kind of questions really aren’t about what people are concerned about right now.

Well, the gay community seems pretty concerned about it, but I guess they aren't a real community.

50 garhighway  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:57:09am

re: #47 makeitstop

Perry did just that yesterday, did he not?

Yup.

And if you want to make him the arbiter of such things, you are free to do so.

I'm not defending him. There's very little about the guy I like. I just don't think we ought to let him set the terms of the conversation.

51 makeitstop  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:57:50am

re: #50 garhighway

Yup.

And if you want to make him the arbiter of such things, you are free to do so.

I'm not defending him. There's very little about the guy I like. I just don't think we ought to let him set the terms of the conversation.

Point taken.

52 theheat  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:59:06am

re: #49 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Well, the gay community seems pretty concerned about it, but I guess they aren't a real community.

No, they're an agenda.
//

53 Kragar  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:59:35am

Santorum: ‘Our Freedom’ Is Less ‘Whole Than It Was At The Time Of Our Founders’

Women and minorities, please ignore the above statement, nothing to see here.

54 Kragar  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 9:59:53am

re: #52 theheat

No, they're an agenda.
//

I thought they were a Cabal.

55 theheat  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 10:00:29am

re: #54 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Barbarians.

56 Lidane  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 10:01:40am

re: #53 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Santorum: ‘Our Freedom’ Is Less ‘Whole Than It Was At The Time Of Our Founders’

Women and minorities, please ignore the above statement, nothing to see here.

The Frothy Mixture can go get bent. He's an idiot.

57 Big Steve  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 10:01:51am

re: #1 Obdicut

So would it be okay for people to also be 'frustrated' with Perry, who used lots of Stimulus funds in Texas?

Actually what Governor Perry did with the stimulus funds in Texas is worse than simply "use" them. They accepted stimulus funds for the schools and then backed an equal amount out of the school budgets to balance the rest of the state monies. So stimulus money intended to be used for investments in the schools just became regular operating costs. This simply forestalled the inevitable school budget crisis a year.

58 Lidane  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 10:02:28am

re: #54 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I thought they were a Cabal.

They're a Satanic barbarian cabal with an agenda!

59 wrenchwench  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 10:02:59am

re: #45 garhighway

We each draw the line where we think it ought to be. Calling Presidential candidates anti-American is where I draw it.

Actual mileage may vary.

I appreciate your appeal for civil discourse, but here's how I justify calling him anti-American: He called it an emergency when he wanted to pass a bill requiring an invasive ultrasound proceedure before an abortion. That's anti-women, and women make up 51% of Americans, therefore....

60 Lidane  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 10:03:19am

re: #57 Big Steve

Actually what Governor Perry did with the stimulus funds in Texas is worse than simply "use" them. They accepted stimulus funds for the schools and then backed an equal amount out of the school budgets to balance the rest of the state monies. So stimulus money intended to be used for investments in the schools just became regular operating costs. This simply forestalled the inevitable school budget crisis a year.

Yep. And now schools all over the state are closing and teachers are getting fired. It's insane.

61 Bulworth  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 10:05:48am

re: #34 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Maybe Perry and the baggers should stop referring to the President as a tyrant, taking about 2nd amendment solutions, revolutions and lynchings and not give Biden more ammo.

This

62 makeitstop  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 10:08:58am

There sure is some interesting innuendo regarding Perry out there on the web today... just sayin'

63 theheat  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 10:09:01am

re: #60 Lidane

If the GOP's wet dream of deregulation becomes reality, maybe the teachers without jobs can clean up oil spills, dump more chlorine in the water, and wipe up toxic waste.

64 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 10:09:31am

I think the tea baggers get too much of a pass on invoking patriotism and American values. They are not wrong to introduce these things, per se, but their version of them is a myth, the complete opposite of the real values and ideals that have kept this republic going for 200 years. The Founding Fathers could not live up to their ideals, and they knew it, but they hoped that we move toward their realization. We have, too, slowly but surely and their vision has been vindicated over and over. Today's conservatives don't want the Founding Fathers' ideals, they want the flawed and backward society into which those ideals were introduced more than 200 years ago. Thirty years ago my commitment to the Enlightenment era ideals of the Founding were what marked me as a conservative. Today, it marks me as a liberal, that and my belief that this truly is a better world than the one into which I was born in 1949.

65 Big Steve  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 10:12:05am

re: #62 makeitstop

There sure is some interesting innuendo regarding Perry out there on the web today... just sayin'

such as?

66 RadicalModerate  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 10:12:28am

re: #57 Big Steve

Actually what Governor Perry did with the stimulus funds in Texas is worse than simply "use" them. They accepted stimulus funds for the schools and then backed an equal amount out of the school budgets to balance the rest of the state monies. So stimulus money intended to be used for investments in the schools just became regular operating costs. This simply forestalled the inevitable school budget crisis a year.

And its not the first time that Perry's done this to education funds either.
The Texas state lottery was originally formed with the intent of the lion's share of the money raised was to go directly to education. After he got into office, the lottery money was diverted to the state "general fund".

67 Alexzander  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 10:13:29am
68 Kragar  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 10:15:09am

re: #67 Alexzander

OT:

Jon Stewart: Why Is the Media Ignoring Ron Paul?

URL FAIL!

69 makeitstop  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 10:16:30am

re: #65 Big Steve

such as?

I'm hesitant to link, because a Google search brings up a copy of the story on Alex Jones' site.

The allegations come from a Texas Republican named Robert Morrow.

70 Lidane  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 10:16:36am

re: #65 Big Steve

such as?

There have been rumors that he's gay and that his marriage is one of convenience for years. It's nothing new.

71 Alexzander  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 10:16:56am

re: #68 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

URL FAIL!

HAh.

Lets try that again:

Jon Stewart: Why Is the Media Ignoring Ron Paul?

72 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 10:17:48am

re: #34 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Maybe Perry and the baggers should stop referring to the President as a tyrant

Since not a single one of the doofi at Iowa could answer a single question about anything without mentioning BARACK OBAMA at least once per answer, I'm betting it's just a matter of time until one of them compares him directly to Bashar al-Assad. Probably about the time they start having to talk about foreign policy.

73 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 10:19:46am

The Congress gets to vote on 13 cents of spending out of every dollar spent by the Federal Government. The other 87 cents goes to "mandatory" spending by already enacted laws. Repaying government bonds, repaying the medicare/medicaid and Social Security trusts for the money borrowed from them by the government. Funding Workman's compensation, Unemployment benefits, Aid to families with dependent children, SSI (federal disability payments), Food stamps, Energy assistance payments for the elderly, etc, etc...

Any really meaningful cuts means changing the existing laws of these benefit programs in order to slash them very deeply. The CBO (Congressional budget office) estimates that we have about $72 Trillion in unfunded liabilities on these programs between now and 2050. The GAO (General Accounting Office) puts the number at above $90 Trillion.

With our current tax structure, with medical fee inflation continuing at more than 10% per year, with the "Baby Boomers" retiring with full S.S. benefits regardless of their income or assets, the annual federal deficit will continue to get larger and larger every year until about 2034. Then as the majority of the "Baby Boomers" finally have died off and cease to draw benefits the annual deficit will slowly start to decline.

Unless things change on either the revenue or benefit front the Federal deficit of $14 Trillion today will be $85-105 Trillion by 2050. I doubt anyone is willing to argue that the U.S.A. could sustain that type of debt or even afford the bond payments on it.

The point is that something simply HAS to change, increased tax rates, cuts to benefits, means testing for benefits, increased payroll deductions for medicare/caid, etc, etc... We simply have no choice anymore and the people trying to sell a cuts only solution are simply lying. They know it cannot work unless we simply eliminate the programs entirely and allow the elderly to starve/freeze in homes with no electricity or heat and no money for food.

And they have the Balls to talk about "Death Panels?"

74 Alexzander  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 10:21:19am

re: #73 ausador

I feel bad for you writing that epic post right before a new thread began.

75 Big Steve  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 10:22:15am

re: #70 Lidane

There have been rumors that he's gay and that his marriage is one of convenience for years. It's nothing new.

Don't like the man a bit but that is just silly.

76 allegro  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 10:22:45am

re: #73 ausador

With our current tax structure, with medical fee inflation continuing at more than 10% per year, with the "Baby Boomers" retiring with full S.S. benefits regardless of their income or assets, the annual federal deficit will continue to get larger and larger every year until about 2034. Then as the majority of the "Baby Boomers" finally have died off and cease to draw benefits the annual deficit will slowly start to decline.

Please, enough with the FALSE application of SS to the deficit. It is not now nor has it ever been a part of the national debt since it is a self-finding program. Just STOP with this crap already.

77 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 10:26:34am

re: #17 Gus 802

I thought about that this morning. If Perry doesn't slow down -- he's already on 11 since day one -- he's going to get on people's nerves and fade fast. But I doubt that. The base will suck this shit up. They love this kind of talk. And there are millions of Americans that will buy this Rick Perry product.

I think so, too. The dupes have been primed 24/7 for it for three years. The rest of the GOP that hates them won't say anything against it anyway, so why should he do anything different.

78 zora  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 10:27:47am

re: #70 Lidane

it may be new to non-texans. i've never heard it.

79 Idle Drifter  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 10:35:43am

re: #49 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Michele Bachmann: Gay Families Are Not ‘Families’

Well, the gay community seems pretty concerned about it, but I guess they aren't a real community.

Sigh. The Nuclear Family was a clever piece of idealism from the 50's. But a real family is something we can only define by ourselves and not give into stereotypes. It took a lot out of my brother to realize he was gay growing up from a very young age. My dad was very noisy about his ignorance so my brother felt he nowhere to turn. Even I fell into a delusional trap about homosexuality until I got older.

My brother went through several phases of his life denying who he was or hiding his true feelings and relations until he was caught by Mom. Thank God. Mom set everyone straight, even Dad. She drew the line in the sand that anyone rejects my brother she'll never speak to them again and cut off all contact until they were ready to make peace. Mom is usually quiet and understanding with others until certain synapse fires and all hell breaks loose. Trust me when I say I've dodge flying objects usually full coffee cups at point blank range and I wasn't the reason she got pissed off.

Now my brother is at happiest point in his life. Unafraid of who he is and feels free to express himself. His life partner is always welcomed to any of our households in the immediate family. There's still some grumbling within the rest of family but overall they are both welcomed as family.

My point of this story is I don't want my brother returned to his hidden life where he was miserable and even contemplating suicide. I don't want people fucking with his life or anyone's life because of some ideology or dominionism. People should be free from fear to live their own lives. Though my brother and his lover don't want to start a family of their own that is their choice to make. I support any couple that want to start a family.

Bachmann and Perry can try to dodge these questions as unimportant. They just do not want to be properly vented for the entire country. It would be one more strike against their push to what ever America they want to establish. I know it's not one I want.

80 celticdragon  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 10:39:42am

re: #16 garhighway

I would respectfully suggest that just because you disagree with him on the merits doesn't make him "anti-American". He may be a lousy human being and a terrible candidate, but I do not doubt his love of our country.

I sure as hell do. Anybody who glibly suggests succession as a possibility is engaging in sedition. There is no way to wrap that shit sandwich without the stench getting out.

81 Idle Drifter  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 10:43:52am

re: #74 Alexzander

I feel bad for you writing that epic post right before a new thread began.

I have to agree.

82 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 10:45:44am

re: #76 allegro

Please, enough with the FALSE application of SS to the deficit. It is not now nor has it ever been a part of the national debt since it is a self-finding program. Just STOP with this crap already.

LMAO!

So the 2.6 Trillion left in the Social Security trust has not all been borrowed by the Federal Government spent on other programs and replaced by I.O.U's? (with interest at least).

Social Security themselves even with the aide of some overly optimistic financial projection still says that they will be completely broke by 2036. I will bet you that it actually happens at least five years earlier.

Here is what they say...

Social Security expenditures exceeded the program’s non-interest income in 2010 for the first time since 1983. The $49 billion deficit last year (excluding interest income) and $46 billion projected deficit in 2011 are in large part due to the weakened economy and to downward income adjustments that correct for excess payroll tax revenue credited to the trust funds in earlier years. This deficit is expected to shrink to about $20 billion for years 2012-2014 as the economy strengthens. After 2014, cash deficits are expected to grow rapidly as the number of beneficiaries continues to grow at a substantially faster rate than the number of covered workers. Through 2022, the annual cash deficits will be made up by redeeming trust fund assets from the General Fund of the Treasury. Because these redemptions will be less than interest earnings, trust fund balances will continue to grow. After 2022, trust fund assets will be redeemed in amounts that exceed interest earnings until trust fund reserves are exhausted in 2036, one year earlier than was projected last year. Thereafter, tax income would be sufficient to pay only about three-quarters of scheduled benefits through 2085.

If the Government defaults on it's bond payments that means it will also be defaulting on the bonds that have have replaced the money that was supposed to be in the Social Security trust. Medicare/caid will be completely broke at least ten years earlier and solely reliant on government tax funds.

Get your head out of the sand and actually look at the numbers. :p

83 wrenchwench  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 11:09:11am

re: #79 Idle Drifter

Sigh. The Nuclear Family was a clever piece of idealism from the 50's. But a real family is something we can only define by ourselves and not give into stereotypes. It took a lot out of my brother to realize he was gay growing up from a very young age. My dad was very noisy about his ignorance so my brother felt he nowhere to turn. Even I fell into a delusional trap about homosexuality until I got older.

My brother went through several phases of his life denying who he was or hiding his true feelings and relations until he was caught by Mom. Thank God. Mom set everyone straight, even Dad. She drew the line in the sand that anyone rejects my brother she'll never speak to them again and cut off all contact until they were ready to make peace. Mom is usually quiet and understanding with others until certain synapse fires and all hell breaks loose. Trust me when I say I've dodge flying objects usually full coffee cups at point blank range and I wasn't the reason she got pissed off.

Now my brother is at happiest point in his life. Unafraid of who he is and feels free to express himself. His life partner is always welcomed to any of our households in the immediate family. There's still some grumbling within the rest of family but overall they are both welcomed as family.

My point of this story is I don't want my brother returned to his hidden life where he was miserable and even contemplating suicide. I don't want people fucking with his life or anyone's life because of some ideology or dominionism. People should be free from fear to live their own lives. Though my brother and his lover don't want to start a family of their own that is their choice to make. I support any couple that want to start a family.

Bachmann and Perry can try to dodge these questions as unimportant. They just do not want to be properly vented for the entire country. It would be one more strike against their push to what ever America they want to establish. I know it's not one I want.

From Kragar's link:

BACHMANN: You know, all of these kind of questions really aren’t about what people are concerned about right now.

So, not only does your brother not have a real family, you aren't a real person for being concerned about him.

84 garhighway  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 12:13:08pm

re: #59 wrenchwench

I appreciate your appeal for civil discourse, but here's how I justify calling him anti-American: He called it an emergency when he wanted to pass a bill requiring an invasive ultrasound proceedure before an abortion. That's anti-women, and women make up 51% of Americans, therefore...

Slippery slope there.

It opens you up to this: if politician X wants to raise taxes on 51% of Americans, is he "anti-American"? Or if he wants to take guns away from 51% of gun owners...

You see the problem?

85 Hal_10000  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 12:31:18pm

I liked what Ta-Nehisi Coates said: It's like OBama has a superpower that makes his opponents destroy themselves.

86 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 12:37:37pm

re: #84 garhighway

Slippery slope there.

It opens you up to this: if politician X wants to raise taxes on 51% of Americans, is he "anti-American"? Or if he wants to take guns away from 51% of gun owners...

You see the problem?

51% of gun owners...wtf? In what delusional type of world are you posting from? Oh yeah I am quite sure that any day now the Federal Government will pass legislation to take the guns away from just slightly over half of the population. ///

Sigh...how about the next time you make incredible and unsupported claims you also link to a reputable source of evidence to support your claims?

87 wrenchwench  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 12:59:46pm

re: #84 garhighway

Slippery slope there.

It opens you up to this: if politician X wants to raise taxes on 51% of Americans, is he "anti-American"? Or if he wants to take guns away from 51% of gun owners...

You see the problem?

Very poor analogies. There may be some slope to the surface I'm standing on, but it is not slippery. Taxes are not the same as an ultrasound. Being a woman is not the same as being a gun owner.

88 lostlakehiker  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 2:50:49pm

re: #14 Alexzander

I am beginning to suspect that Perry flames out early, to our great amusement.

They have already appointed him as Heir to the Republican Throne over at RedState, to the chagrin of many readers who actually believed the small government bullshit they have been fed for the last 2.5 years.

I've never thought he was likely to win the nomination. There were already reasons enough: cronygate, fundamentalism, Texas governor again already?

But this sort of thing is going to sink him a lot faster. His own words are going to come back at him during every debate. If he refuses to debate, that will be a big talking point for his leading rival.

If he tries to explain it, he'll just dig himself deeper. He missed whatever window of opportunity there might have been to "clarify" away what he said.

And finally, while here and there, Republican primary voters have delivered a nomination into the hands of a candidate who stands no chance at all, just because she (or he, but the two big examples I have in mind are women) is teapolitically correct, mostly that doesn't happen.

89 lostlakehiker  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 2:58:17pm

re: #76 allegro

Please, enough with the FALSE application of SS to the deficit. It is not now nor has it ever been a part of the national debt since it is a self-finding program. Just STOP with this crap already.

On paper, by law, SS is self funding. But in reality, the surplus that SS ran over the past few decades was diverted to general revenue. A stack of "bonds" was placed in a vault somewhere, so on paper again the SS program still has those assets. But the federal government, as a whole, cannot save up for future expenses by putting paper in a vault. Such savings are no more real use than it would be to just ignore the problem until benefits fell due, and then print however much money was needed. Either way, paper.

Now, SS tax receipts are failing to keep pace with benefits claimed. The federal government, seen as a black box, will have to either print money, borrow money, cut benefits, raise other taxes, raise social security taxes, cut other spending [drastically], or default on some of its debt.

It cannot just take its own IOU's to itself and cash them in and say problem solved.


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