Breitbart Editor-In-Chief Incites Violence Against OWS Protesters

Sick
Wingnuts • Views: 34,531

After his amazingly dumb, self-refuting post yesterday claiming that the media is “covering up” connections between the White House shooting suspect and OWS, check out the Twitter insanity coming from Andrew Breitbart editor-in-chief John Nolte today, exulting about violence against OWS protesters and calling for more.

Don’t forget, though; in the wingnut mind, this is supposed to be “humor.”

When I’m king, for every hippie scalp we’ll give you an ice cream cone.

[…]

Not going to wait 2B King. Send me your hippie scalps today & I’ll send you a gift certificate 4 a pint of Ben & Jerry’s Hippie Blood Mocha.

[…]

When the dog bites. When the bee stings. When I’m feeling sad. I simply remember bloodied #OWS hippies … And then I don’t feel sooo bad.

[…]

Girls in white dresses with blue satin sashes. Dirty, filthy hippies arrested with bruises and gashes…

[…]

Raindrops on roses and whiskers on kittens. Batons hitting hippies as they fall into their own shittins’…

[…]

When the dog barks. When the bee stings. When a hippie skull cracks…

[…]

*sniff* *sniff* There’s just something about a police baton swung towards the skull of #OWS that *sniff* chokes a man up. #ItsSoBeautiful

[…]

Hard to watch #OWS #OccupyWallStreet hippies get what they deserve while tender tears of joy cloud the eyes.

[…]

Dirty, filthy #OWS hippies getting what they deserve from cops = MY PORN

[…]

POP THE POPCORN! Dirty, filthy #Occupy hippes getting what they deserve from police — LIVE!

This guy is sick in the head.

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424 comments
1 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 10:53:37am

Sick or drunk. Not sure which.

2 MittDoesNotCompute  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 10:54:13am

"Completely and totally fucked in the head" fits this guy.

3 Iwouldprefernotto  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 10:55:10am

Hippies? How unorginal. Buy a new meme or shut up.

4 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 10:55:40am

"We like to have fun here. Oh, and here's my head shot. Head shot. Get it?"
//riff on last night's South Park episode

5 jaunte  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 10:56:43am

re: #3 Iwouldprefernotto

I'm sure he'd be happy to substitute 'liberal' or 'Democrat party voter.'

6 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 10:57:05am

re: #1 EmmmieG

Sick or drunk. Not sure which.

Hah. these things are not exclusive of one another. ;-0

7 lawhawk  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 10:58:03am

It's a joke!!!! / nolte

Wait, isn't that how these guys seem to couch their real feelings? It's a joke. Never mind. It's a joke. It wasn't meant to be taken as anything other than satire.

Sorry, but those are the musings of someone who clearly doesn't have any regard for the lives of others.

Besides, who exactly does he think is protesting - as though it's only and exclusively hippies and leftists? It most certainly isn't - and that's from my personal experience viewing these protests in NYC up close.

8 Lidane  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 10:58:24am

re: #5 jaunte

I'm sure he'd be happy to substitute 'liberal' or 'Democrat party voter.'

In his mind, there's no difference.

9 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 10:58:28am

This is not porn.

Image: kent-state-massacre-1970.jpg

Image: ksu7.jpg

10 Targetpractice  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 10:59:34am

re: #9 Obdicut

This is not porn.

Image: kent-state-massacre-1970.jpg

Image: ksu7.jpg

Come now, don't you remember your Coulter? Shooting protesters with live rifle rounds is what you do with a mob!

11 Decatur Deb  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:00:12am

re: #9 Obdicut

This is not porn.

Image: kent-state-massacre-1970.jpg

Image: ksu7.jpg

Not porn? For my generation that's a fucking Pieta.

12 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:01:22am

looks like the shit is hitting the fan in Zucotti park ...

13 darthstar  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:01:42am

And Rick Perry challenges Nancy Pelosi to a debate...uh, Rick, you can't even handle your fellow fucktards in the GOP like Bachmann, Santorum, and Cain...and you want to go up against Nancy?

I am in Washington Monday and would love to engage you in a public debate about my Overhaul Washington plan versus the congressional status quo. I think it would be a tremendous service to the American public to see a public airing of these differences. Let the people decide. If Monday doesn't work, perhaps we could find a time in Iowa over the course of the next month to discuss these issues in front of the people of America's heartland.

Should you choose not to respond or engage in such a healthy discussion, I will take it to mean you will continue your obstructionist ways in the face of much needed Washington reform.

Listen, "Rick"...Nancy'd rip you a new asshole and shove your head up it before you could say teabagger.

14 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:01:57am

On another front of the ongoing siege, Occupy Lubbock continues to camp out on the traffic median at 19th and University. Mayor Tom Martin has spoken up for the group, pointing out that there is no curfew on the traffic right-of-way (as opposed to a park) and the group is exercising its Constitutional rights.

Deranged hippies of Occupy Lubbock take time out from subversion and debauchery to pose for a group photo

There have been no arrests and no reports of crime from the protest.

15 Charles Johnson  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:03:18am

re: #14 Shiplord Kirel

On another front of the ongoing siege, Occupy Lubbock continues to camp out on the traffic median at 19th and University. Mayor Tom Martin has spoken up for the group, pointing out that there is no curfew on the traffic right-of-way (as opposed to a park) and the group is exercising its Constitutional rights.

Deranged hippies of Occupy Lubbock take time out from subversion and debauchery to pose for a group photo

There have been no arrests and no reports of crime from the protest.

Look at those dirty, filthy, lice-infested hippies. Call out the riot squad!

16 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:03:31am

re: #14 Shiplord Kirel

On another front of the ongoing siege, Occupy Lubbock continues to camp out on the traffic median at 19th and University. Mayor Tom Martin has spoken up for the group, pointing out that there is no curfew on the traffic right-of-way (as opposed to a park) and the group is exercising its Constitutional rights.

Deranged hippies of Occupy Lubbock take time out from subversion and debauchery to pose for a group photo

There have been no arrests and no reports of crime from the protest.

they are masters of disguise ...

17 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:03:52am

re: #14 Shiplord Kirel

That's a pretty adorable photo.

18 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:04:05am

re: #14 Shiplord Kirel

On another front of the ongoing siege, Occupy Lubbock continues to camp out on the traffic median at 19th and University. Mayor Tom Martin has spoken up for the group, pointing out that there is no curfew on the traffic right-of-way (as opposed to a park) and the group is exercising its Constitutional rights.

Deranged hippies of Occupy Lubbock take time out from subversion and debauchery to pose for a group photo

There have been no arrests and no reports of crime from the protest.

Liar! That's a Tea Party!
//

19 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:04:12am

re: #12 _RememberTonyC

looks like the shit is hitting the fan in Zucotti park ...

I've been watching the live feed. They've closed off the park and are arresting people. I think they might just be trying to thin out the numbers to dampen the effects of the planned bridge closings for rush hour.

20 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:05:01am

re: #19 Killgore Trout

What do you think about Nolte's comments, Killgore, given that you've said similar stuff?

21 Kragar  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:05:58am

re: #13 darthstar

And Rick Perry challenges Nancy Pelosi to a debate...uh, Rick, you can't even handle your fellow fucktards in the GOP like Bachmann, Santorum, and Cain...and you want to go up against Nancy?

Listen, "Rick"...Nancy'd rip you a new asshole and shove your head up it before you could say teabagger.

She already did:

“Monday, I’m going to be in Portland in the morning, visiting some of our labs in California in the afternoon, that’s two…I can’t remember what the third thing is.”

22 Gus  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:06:24am

re: #9 Obdicut

This is not porn.

Image: kent-state-massacre-1970.jpg

Image: ksu7.jpg

Orangeburg massacre

Jackson State killings

23 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:07:42am

What a loser.

24 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:08:05am

re: #19 Killgore Trout

I've been watching the live feed. They've closed off the park and are arresting people. I think they might just be trying to thin out the numbers to dampen the effects of the planned bridge closings for rush hour.

I am not against people exercising their freedom of speech. But I feel that the local business owners are probably being hurt by these protests while the "Wall Street Bigs" are not being hurt at all. The law of unintended circumstances strikes again.

25 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:09:20am

re: #20 Obdicut

What do you think about Nolte's comments, Killgore, given that you've said similar stuff?

I haven't advocated vigilantism. That's out of bounds. A couple hippies getting maced doesn't bother me but I don't like to see people getting serious injuries. I don't have a lot of sympathy for the protesters since they are often attacking police, throwing bottles and rocks, mobs rushing police lines, we've had at least one cop stabbed. Participating in violent protests does run the risk of injury.

26 Gus  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:09:33am

I suspect that Charles will get a major storm of wingnut butthurt directed at him. Especially judging by the referrer storm coming in for this post. You can almost hear the mouth breathing and chest pounding from the distance.

27 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:09:51am

re: #24 _RememberTonyC

I'd agree with that. Actually trying to get to Wall Street itself, and actually thinking that has an effect on the day the bankers have, is futile. For the evil actors among the bankers, they probably like all the attention and fuss.

28 Kragar  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:10:24am

Cain: 'We Need A Leader, Not A Reader'

29 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:11:13am

re: #25 Killgore Trout

I haven't advocated vigilantism. That's out of bounds. A couple hippies getting maced doesn't bother me

Um, don't you mean you actually liked it, not that it 'doesn't bother you'?

And hippies? I mean, it's better than the original claim you made-- remember, the completely fucking false one that they were Marxist trust-funders-- but why are you calling those women who got maced hippies?

30 Decatur Deb  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:12:16am

re: #26 Gus 802

I suspect that Charles will get a major storm of wingnut butthurt directed at him. Especially judging by the referrer storm coming in for this post. You can almost hear the mouth breathing and chest pounding from the distance.

Good--haven't hit the tip jar for a while. I pay for good hatemail by the derp.

31 albusteve  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:12:45am

re: #22 Gus 802

Orangeburg massacre

Jackson State killings

I remember each of those incidents, just as heartbreaking now as it was then...let's all just hope nobody snaps regarding OWS...it's not worth it

32 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:12:59am

re: #28 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Cain: 'We Need A Leader, Not A Reader'

A leader who can read is always nice. Also good: comprehension, and the ability to articulate thoughts.

33 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:14:52am

By the way what is it about right wing bloggers that makes them so horny for violence against those they dislike and hate politically. I won't lie. I hate the Tea Party but I never thought oh boy it would be great if the police beat them up.

34 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:15:17am

re: #27 Obdicut

I'd agree with that. Actually trying to get to Wall Street itself, and actually thinking that has an effect on the day the bankers have, is futile. For the evil actors among the bankers, they probably like all the attention and fuss.

One thing I am totally puzzled about is the end game. Certainly the OWS demonstrations around the country have gotten their point across. I've probably followed this less than the average Lizard, but the "99%" message has certainly managed to penetrate even my thick skull. So what is the next objective of these protests? If Americans "get" the 99% message, what is left for the protesters to achieve?

35 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:16:01am

re: #29 Obdicut

I like to see the good guys win. Seeing G20 rioters or violent EDL thugs get a face full of mace doesn't bother me. Same with violent OWS crowds. The old lady in Seattle was not satisfying to see. She shouldn't have been there. The Black Block anarchists attacking police are a different matter.
I fully support the right to march and protest. That right dose not include attacking police. When people cross that line they are responsible for their own fate.

36 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:16:08am

re: #26 Gus 802

Well just because it's fun to push back at Breitbart, I have this handy link.
The Global Occupy Livestream list

37 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:17:16am

Ok, the cops closed off Zuccati park to pull a few trouble makers out. They're opening it up again.

38 Gus  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:17:26am

re: #36 Rightwingconspirator

Well just because it's fun to push back at Breitbart, I have this handy link.
The Global Occupy Livestream list

Damn. That's a mother lode of streams.

39 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:17:26am

The wingnut meme of "ending it, like we did at Kent State" is wrong in several ways. One, young National Guardsmen shot in error, not rightwingers intending to end demonstrations. Two, it didn't end anything, as shown by Gus's Jackson State link, and by a half million people in Washington DC in 1971.

40 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:17:40am

re: #35 Killgore Trout

But then, of course, you endorsed macing even when it was arbitrary and not aimed at violent thugs.

41 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:18:16am

re: #35 Killgore Trout

Dude. I am asking specifically about your comment about two girls who were maced by Tony Bologna. They were not violent. You celebrated the attack on them. You called them Marxist trust funders. Now you're calling them hippies. Neither description is accurate.

If you regret what you said, why not express that? If you don't regret it, why not defend it? Dodging it won't make what you said disappear.

42 RadicalModerate  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:18:37am

re: #33 HappyWarrior

By the way what is it about right wing bloggers that makes them so horny for violence against those they dislike and hate politically. I won't lie. I hate the Tea Party but I never thought oh boy it would be great if the police beat them up.

I challenge you to find *ANY* left-wing blogger, or even a commenter on said blogs who advocated violence against the Tea Party protestors. It just didn't happen.

On the right-leaning sites, not only does it happen on a regular basis, it's actually implicitly (if not overtly) encouraged.

43 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:18:48am

re: #35 Killgore Trout

I like to see the good guys win. Seeing G20 rioters or violent EDL thugs get a face full of mace doesn't bother me. Same with violent OWS crowds. The old lady in Seattle was not satisfying to see. She shouldn't have been there. The Black Block anarchists attacking police are a different matter.
I fully support the right to march and protest. That right dose not include attacking police. When people cross that line they are responsible for their own fate.

(bolding added by me)
Careful there or we might be seeing the beginning of the "No True Protester" fallacy.

44 albusteve  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:19:20am

re: #34 _RememberTonyC

One thing I am totally puzzled about is the end game. Certainly the OWS demonstrations around the country have gotten their point across. I've probably followed this less than the average Lizard, but the "99%" message has certainly managed to penetrate even my thick skull. So what is the next objective of these protests? If Americans "get" the 99% message, what is left for the protesters to achieve?

good question
OWS needs solid leadership to provide some sort of manifest to shove in congresses face...this entire vibe needs to settle in DC right at the capitol

45 Charles Johnson  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:19:33am

re: #33 HappyWarrior

By the way what is it about right wing bloggers that makes them so horny for violence against those they dislike and hate politically. I won't lie. I hate the Tea Party but I never thought oh boy it would be great if the police beat them up.

Good point. In all the LGF posts about the Tea Party, I don't think we ever had a single comment from someone saying they wanted to go in with automatic weapons and kill them all. (This is a paraphrase of a comment I saw this morning at Fox Nation.)

46 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:21:10am

re: #34 _RememberTonyC

One thing I am totally puzzled about is the end game. Certainly the OWS demonstrations around the country have gotten their point across. I've probably followed this less than the average Lizard, but the "99%" message has certainly managed to penetrate even my thick skull. So what is the next objective of these protests? If Americans "get" the 99% message, what is left for the protesters to achieve?

Consciousness-raising has no end game. I hope it has a few new tactics up its sleeve, though.

47 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:21:15am

re: #45 Charles

Good point. In all the LGF posts about the Tea Party, I don't think we ever had a single comment from someone saying they wanted to go in with automatic weapons and kill them all. (This is a paraphrase of a comment I saw this morning at Fox Nation.)

don't compare LGF to other blogs ..... this is a civilized place ...

48 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:21:25am

re: #41 Obdicut

Dude. I am asking specifically about your comment about two girls who were maced by Tony Bologna. They were not violent. You celebrated the attack on them. You called them Marxist trust funders. Now you're calling them hippies. Neither description is accurate.

If you regret what you said, why not express that? If you don't regret it, why not defend it? Dodging it won't make what you said disappear.

I don't have much sympathy for them. They were participating in a violent protest, people fighting with cops, resiting arrest, interfering with arrests just a few feet away. The cops made a mistake by macing them but that's the risk you take by participating in violent mobs. If they can sue the city and get a big fat settlement then good for them. They weren't seriously injured.

49 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:21:32am

re: #45 Charles

Good point. In all the LGF posts about the Tea Party, I don't think we ever had a single comment from someone saying they wanted to go in with automatic weapons and kill them all. (This is a paraphrase of a comment I saw this morning at Fox Nation.)

I am seeing a meme on some right-wing blogs that there have been NO "Tea Party" arrests, but a whole bunch of OWS arrests.

They are not counting the militia arrests as being related to the tea parties.

50 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:22:12am

re: #44 albusteve

good question
OWS needs solid leadership to provide some sort of manifest to shove in congresses face...this entire vibe needs to settle in DC right at the capitol

good answer ...... is there any evidence that something like that is forthcoming?

51 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:22:33am

re: #45 Charles

I mainly wanted them to get pissed about the right people, and to stop complaining about things that weren't real.

52 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:22:40am

re: #43 oaktree

(bolding added by me)
Careful there or we might be seeing the beginning of the "No True Protester" fallacy.

Old ladies have a way of going wherever they want. My mom visited Occupy Irvine.

53 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:22:54am

re: #48 Killgore Trout

The rule of law be damned when the police does it! But if OWS breaks it they're terrorists! //

54 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:23:16am

re: #46 wrenchwench

Consciousness-raising has no end game. I hope it has a few new tactics up its sleeve, though.

right, but unless it is followed up by something that leads to an end game, it just becomes tedious, boring, and seemingly never ending.

55 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:23:42am

re: #53 Sergey Romanov

The rule of law be damned when the police does it! But if OWS breaks it they're terrorists! //

Of course we both know I said no such thing.

56 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:24:03am

re: #55 Killgore Trout

Of course we both know I said no such thing.

Of course we both know there are whole two sarc tags.

57 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:24:42am

re: #54 _RememberTonyC

right, but unless it is followed up by something that leads to an end game, it just becomes tedious, boring, and seemingly never ending.

I was thinking of the women's movement when I wrote that. I guess your description is apt, but still: no end game. Just an ongoing battle.

58 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:25:22am

re: #56 Sergey Romanov

Of course we both know there are whole two sarc tags.

Sorry but there are people here who obsessively characterize my statements. I'm a little bit sensitive about it although I usually try to skim past.

59 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:26:02am

re: #48 Killgore Trout

Again: You're misrepresenting what happened. It's not that you didn't have sympathy, it's that you celebrated them being attacked.

Never mind. You're clearly just going to keep dodging responsibility for what you said.

Sad.

They were participating in a violent protest, people fighting with cops, resiting arrest, interfering with arrests just a few feet away.

Yeah. They were being peaceful, but because others were resisting arrest, Bologna just walked up and maced them, and that's the risk they run.

Pure logic there, dude.

60 albusteve  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:26:33am

re: #50 _RememberTonyC

good answer ... is there any evidence that something like that is forthcoming?

not that I know of, but momentum is very important...that's why any distractions like brawling etc has to cease...I think someone has to to the heat up on the lawmakers....who else is there? WS don't give a shit, as they say

61 Gus  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:27:18am

A Career Occupation

A week before police evicted protesters from Zuccotti Park, Tim Weldon quit his job in Connecticut to be closer to the Occupy Wall Street movement.

Watch the video.

Enough already with calling these people "hippies". That's not only a lie but it's bigoted.

62 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:27:27am

re: #58 Killgore Trout

Sorry but there are people here who obsessively characterize my statements. I'm a little bit sensitive about it although I usually try to skim past.

Don't worry, sarc tags make it all right to write these pseudosummaries. Just a joke, no?

63 Gus  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:28:38am

@vplus Vaughn Sterling CNN
CNN JUST IN: Oscar Ortega-Hernandez to be charged w/attempting to assassinate the President or member of his staff.

64 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:28:50am

re: #57 wrenchwench

I was thinking of the women's movement when I wrote that. I guess your description is apt, but still: no end game. Just an ongoing battle.

You and I are on the same wave length here. The women's movement did lead to some concrete results such as Title IX, although there is still lots of work to be done. As for OWS, beyond hammering home the 99% message, I am not seeing much else in their repetoire.

65 Charles Johnson  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:29:03am

re: #49 Alouette

I am seeing a meme on some right-wing blogs that there have been NO "Tea Party" arrests, but a whole bunch of OWS arrests.

They are not counting the militia arrests as being related to the tea parties.

The Tea Party rallies were mostly professionally organized, because these were not really "grass roots" events - they were astroturfed by right wing front groups and the Republican Party. So they had permits and everything was done by the book. They were safe, tame, managed rallies, and the attendees were mostly older people.

OWS is pretty much a real grass roots movement (with some fairly lame organization by left wing groups), they're demonstrating without permits in urban environments, and the attendees are mostly younger people. OWS is an act of civil disobedience, not a tame, staged event.

These are two very different things, and the "who's more violent" comparison just isn't meaningful.

66 nines09  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:29:42am

Every time I read things like this I'm reminded of the people I knew and know in life that talked like that. One thing was a common thread. They were cowards and scared little boys with hangups a shrink could mine for years. Put them in a true violent situation and they better not be the one watching your back.

67 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:31:31am

re: #45 Charles

Good point. In all the LGF posts about the Tea Party, I don't think we ever had a single comment from someone saying they wanted to go in with automatic weapons and kill them all. (This is a paraphrase of a comment I saw this morning at Fox Nation.)

Yeah most people here thought the TP was wrong as hell but I never saw anyone advocate anything like that either. Seriously, the authoritarian jackoff mentality is disturbing. There's disagreement and then there's that mentality.

68 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:32:56am

re: #65 Charles

The vast gulf between the reality and the critics is precisely what motivates me to keep watching Occupy. The more lies and hippie bigotry I see the more sympathetic I am to their efforts.

69 bratwurst  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:33:31am

re: #28 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Cain: 'We Need A Leader, Not A Reader'

Wow, Cain is now stealing lines from The Simpsons Movie:

Youtube Video
70 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:33:38am

re: #25 Killgore Trout

I haven't advocated vigilantism. That's out of bounds. A couple hippies getting maced doesn't bother me but I don't like to see people getting serious injuries.

Now you're just lying.

71 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:33:45am

re: #65 Charles

The Tea Party rallies were mostly professionally organized, because these were not really "grass roots" events - they were astroturfed by right wing front groups and the Republican Party. So they had permits and everything was done by the book. They were safe, tame, managed rallies, and the attendees were mostly older people.

OWS really is pretty much a real grass roots movement (with some fairly lame organization by left wing groups), they're demonstrating without permits in urban environments, and the attendees are mostly younger people. OWS is an act of civil disobedience, not a tame, staged event.

These are two very different things, and the "who's more violent" comparison just isn't meaningful.

I think OWS's cause would be much better serve with nonviolent protests. Scenes of chaos, vandalizing business, setting dumpsters on fire and attacking police doesn't help their cause.

72 albusteve  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:34:05am

re: #67 HappyWarrior

Yeah most people here thought the TP was wrong as hell but I never saw anyone advocate anything like that either. Seriously, the authoritarian jackoff mentality is disturbing. There's disagreement and then there's that mentality.

and with god on your side, downright dangerous

73 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:34:30am

re: #69 bratwurst

Wow, Cain is now stealing lines from The Simpsons Movie:

[Video]

Well his tax policy is from Sim City.

74 allegro  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:35:39am

re: #57 wrenchwench

I was thinking of the women's movement when I wrote that. I guess your description is apt, but still: no end game. Just an ongoing battle.

Indeed. I'm thinking LGF must be a pretty young bunch - or some of the oldsters among us have short memories - but NO protest movement worked the first time. It was years of protesting and growing the movements, getting messages out, taking a stand over and over again. They had the same bullshit complaints and push-back about the "troublemakers" whether African Americans, anti-war "hippies", or suffragettes.

Some of us believed in what we were doing enough to take those risks that Killgore is so gleeful of. We got teargassed, we got arrested, and we goddamn persevered to do it again another day, in another place, as the movements grew, evolved, and changed the landscape. I am quite proud of the teeny tiny place I had in those efforts as will those who persevere in today's efforts.

The failures now are not the OWS, they are the systematic wrongs that made the OWS necessary. Until those wrongs are righted, I think the beast has been now awakened and it will not be going back to sleep.

75 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:36:06am

re: #72 albusteve

and with god on your side, downright dangerous

I'm as a rule wary of people who like to claim they have God on their side.

76 albusteve  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:38:49am

re: #75 HappyWarrior

I'm as a rule wary of people who like to claim they have God on their side.

makes one ideologically invincible...I see it as a huge threat to American society

77 RadicalModerate  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:41:38am

To make the the claim that the Tea Partiers are all law-abiding, upstanding citizens is a damned lie too.

They just have a different sense of scale:

Voter Registration Group Targeted By TX Tea Party Group Received Threats (VIDEO)

King Street "Patriots": Voter Intimidation Continues At Polling Stations Around Houston

78 Talking Point Detective  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:42:46am

re: #58 Killgore Trout

Sorry but there are people here who obsessively characterize my statements. I'm a little bit sensitive about it although I usually try to skim past.

I don't know about "obsessive," but I have seen people characterizing your statements.

Accurately.

How would you "characterize" a statement saying that people were "supporting" rapes and stabbings?

Seriously. How would you characterize that?

79 McSpiff  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:43:01am

re: #74 allegro

Indeed. I'm thinking LGF must be a pretty young bunch - or some of the oldsters among us have short memories - but NO protest movement worked the first time. It was years of protesting and growing the movements, getting messages out, taking a stand over and over again. They had the same bullshit complaints and push-back about the "troublemakers" whether African Americans, anti-war "hippies", or suffragettes.

Some of us believed in what we were doing enough to take those risks that Killgore is so gleeful of. We got teargassed, we got arrested, and we goddamn persevered to do it again another day, in another place, as the movements grew, evolved, and changed the landscape. I am quite proud of the teeny tiny place I had in those efforts as will those who persevere in today's efforts.

The failures now are not the OWS, they are the systematic wrongs that made the OWS necessary. Until those wrongs are righted, I think the beast has been now awakened and it will not be going back to sleep.

Many of us have grown up without protests being successful, with some being largely negative. Saigon fell in 1975. Dr. King died in 68. I was born in 1987.

I grew up with riots at the G7/G20, the failed Iraq War protests, etc

80 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:43:08am

Nothing ever happens in Hartford ... until now .... kinda sorta:

[Link: www.wfsb.com...]

Not sure why this is newsworthy because I have seen the OWS Hartford group, and they have been in the same spot described in the story for almost two months. There are not that many of them, usually a couple of dozen, but they are a plucky bunch.

81 albusteve  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:43:18am

re: #74 allegro

nice post...
WS and the feds will not go down without a fight....a constant, even pressure has to be applied to congress...a relentless forward power fueled by average people across party lines...it can be done, but as you say, may take years....if you win most of the little battles and you will likely win the war

82 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:44:05am

re: #76 albusteve

makes one ideologically invincible...I see it as a huge threat to American society

Are you an atheist?

83 albusteve  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:44:36am

re: #82 Sergey Romanov

Are you an atheist?

depends on the day

84 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:44:46am

re: #76 albusteve

makes one ideologically invincible...I see it as a huge threat to American society

I don't, mainly because the bigots of America have been claiming that from jump. (Jump was a long time ago, for anyone counting.) Eff them, they can go jump in the lake.

85 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:44:46am

re: #77 RadicalModerate

To make the the claim that the Tea Partiers are all law-abiding, upstanding citizens is a damned lie too.

They just have a different sense of scale:

Voter Registration Group Targeted By TX Tea Party Group Received Threats (VIDEO)

King Street "Patriots": Voter Intimidation Continues At Polling Stations Around Houston

But, but, Black Panthers with billy clubs!

86 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:44:57am

re: #74 allegro

Indeed. I'm thinking LGF must be a pretty young bunch - or some of the oldsters among us have short memories - but NO protest movement worked the first time. It was years of protesting and growing the movements, getting messages out, taking a stand over and over again. They had the same bullshit complaints and push-back about the "troublemakers" whether African Americans, anti-war "hippies", or suffragettes.

Some of us believed in what we were doing enough to take those risks that Killgore is so gleeful of. We got teargassed, we got arrested, and we goddamn persevered to do it again another day, in another place, as the movements grew, evolved, and changed the landscape. I am quite proud of the teeny tiny place I had in those efforts as will those who persevere in today's efforts.

The failures now are not the OWS, they are the systematic wrongs that made the OWS necessary. Until those wrongs are righted, I think the beast has been now awakened and it will not be going back to sleep.

+1, QFT & a standing O

87 Gus  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:45:08am

Prop. 8 is violent.

88 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:45:24am

re: #80 _RememberTonyC

When I was growing up, there was really nothing to Hartford other than the business district, there wasn't really a big residential population except on the fringes. Is that still the case?

89 albusteve  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:45:43am

re: #83 albusteve

depends on the day

kinda flip for this time of day...
I am

90 Talking Point Detective  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:45:52am

re: #35 Killgore Trout

I like to see the good guys win. Seeing G20 rioters or violent EDL thugs get a face full of mace doesn't bother me. Same with violent OWS crowds. The old lady in Seattle was not satisfying to see. She shouldn't have been there. The Black Block anarchists attacking police are a different matter.
I fully support the right to march and protest. That right dose not include attacking police. When people cross that line they are responsible for their own fate.

On what basis do you determine what she should or shouldn't have done? She shouldn't demonstrate on an issue that she feels important because of the potential for an anarchist to incite police?

91 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:46:02am

re: #79 McSpiff

Many of us have grown up without protests being successful, with some being largely negative. Saigon fell in 1975. Dr. King died in 68. I was born in 1987.

I grew up with riots at the G7/G20, the failed Iraq War protests, etc

A lot of you also don't know that much about historical social movements that have thrived regardless of the rwnj response.

92 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:47:01am

This is from October 27th, but it remains my favorite account from the Occupy movement.

93 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:47:08am

re: #35 Killgore Trout

I like to see the good guys win. Seeing G20 rioters or violent EDL thugs get a face full of mace doesn't bother me. Same with violent OWS crowds. The old lady in Seattle was not satisfying to see. She shouldn't have been there. The Black Block anarchists attacking police are a different matter.
I fully support the right to march and protest. That right dose not include attacking police. When people cross that line they are responsible for their own fate.

She's a grown woman. Who are you to tell her where she should and shouldn't go?

94 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:47:17am

Heh I was looking at right wing watch. Bryan Fischer is claiming Limbaugh's been compromised by homosexuals because I guess Rush isn't calling Sandusky a homosexual and linking the scandal with gays. You know you're crazy when you're upset that Limbaugh's not enough.

95 McSpiff  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:47:41am

re: #91 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

A lot of you also don't know that much about historical social movements that have thrived regardless of the rwnj response.

Wouldn't disagree with that statement

96 Gus  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:48:22am

@CBSNews CBS News
BREAKING: White House shooting suspect charged with attempting to assassinate President Barack Obama.

97 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:48:41am

re: #90 Talking Point Detective

On what basis do you determine what she should or shouldn't have done? She shouldn't demonstrate on an issue that she feels important because of the potential for an anarchist to incite police?

That's the rwnj approach to anyone they don't approve of.

We did not give you permission to speak so you better stfu or else.

98 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:49:05am

re: #91 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

A lot of you also don't know that much about historical social movements that have thrived regardless of the rwnj response.

Labor movement is a good example. Things like Haymarket and Homestead and the labor movement still fought on.

99 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:49:35am

re: #97 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

No, that's not at all what Killgore is saying. Just because he's being hyperboblic doesn't mean everyone else should jump on the trampoline.

100 Talking Point Detective  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:49:54am

re: #58 Killgore Trout

Sorry but there are people here who obsessively characterize my statements. I'm a little bit sensitive about it although I usually try to skim past.

Seriously. It's pretty clear that your focus is to piss people off, martyr yourself, and then claim "vindication." You have shown zero interest in engaging in the larger questions and issues related to OWS.

It's your right to post as you see fit. Some are offended, and I suppose you will just continue to ignore that. Personally, I find your posts rather pathetic.

But why are you deluding yourself? Why are you posting as you do - with the obvious intent of getting the response that you're getting, and then claim that you're "skimming past" the responses?

101 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:50:22am

re: #93 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

She's a grown woman. Who are you to tell her where she should and shouldn't go?

I wish she hadn't been there but like I said yesterday she's a seasoned activist and probably knew what she was getting into. It was sad to see her hurt but I don't think violent protests are a good place for old ladies and pregnant teens.

102 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:50:38am

re: #88 Obdicut

When I was growing up, there was really nothing to Hartford other than the business district, there wasn't really a big residential population except on the fringes. Is that still the case?

Hartford is pretty boring. One Boston sportswriter referred to it as "America's Filing Cabinet." It is exactly 100 miles from NYC and 100 miles from Boston. In other words, it is in the middle of nowhere. However, there is an oasis of a town called West Hartford that is a really cool area and a great place to live. But beyond that, there isn't much!

103 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:51:00am

re: #85 Alouette

[wingnut]But, but, Black Panthers with billy clubs![/singnut]

100 years later, Birth of A Nation still has the white-is-right rw trained, well.

104 Targetpractice  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:51:14am

re: #35 Killgore Trout

I like to see the good guys win. Seeing G20 rioters or violent EDL thugs get a face full of mace doesn't bother me. Same with violent OWS crowds. The old lady in Seattle was not satisfying to see. She shouldn't have been there. The Black Block anarchists attacking police are a different matter.
I fully support the right to march and protest. That right dose not include attacking police. When people cross that line they are responsible for their own fate.

So if I'm at an otherwise peaceful protest and the young punk next to me decides to pick a fight with the cops, then I'm at fault and thus a valid target for pepper spray or getting cracked upside the noggin with a police baton?

105 AK-47%  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:52:05am

re: #104 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

So if I'm at an otherwise peaceful protest and the young punk next to me decides to pick a fight with the cops, then I'm at fault and thus a valid target for pepper spray or getting cracked upside the noggin with a police baton?

It's a subtle way of letting you know that you should have stayed home and watched DWS...

106 HAL2010  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:52:19am

Look, I've been following the "OWS" movement sporadically to say the least, but something I have not seen (most likely because of it) is some sort of clear vision of what the "OWS" people actually want.

Yes, I know it's organic and all that, and yes I know the Koch brothers did fund the TP movement to a large extent. But the TP movement was quite quick off the block to formulate some sort of vision of where they wanted things to go (not that I agree with their views).

So what exactly, do the "OWS" movement want?

107 albusteve  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:52:26am

re: #102 _RememberTonyC

Hartford is pretty boring. One Boston sportswriter referred to it as "America's Filing Cabinet." It is exactly 100 miles from NYC and 100 miles from Boston. In other words, it is in the middle of nowhere. However, there is an oasis of a town called West Hartford that is a really cool area and a great place to live. But beyond that, there isn't much!

but how far from Toad's?
I like that place
[Link: www.toadsplace.com...]

108 Gus  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:52:47am

How could I have forgotten about MOVE.

109 Talking Point Detective  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:53:15am

re: #99 Obdicut

No, that's not at all what Killgore is saying. Just because he's being hyperboblic doesn't mean everyone else should jump on the trampoline.

I agree. That isn't, directly, what he's saying.

But what is he saying? It seems that he is saying that if someone can't prevent an anarchist next to them from inciting police, they only have two choices: (1) to not protest what they see as injustice, (2) get what they deserve.

110 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:53:29am

I really, really liked this article.

[Link: www.daveramsey.com...]

111 Lidane  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:54:04am

re: #90 Talking Point Detective

On what basis do you determine what she should or shouldn't have done? She shouldn't demonstrate on an issue that she feels important because of the potential for an anarchist to incite police?

Because if there's even the potential of an anarchist showing up at a protest, you should never, ever go. Don't speak up, don't stand up for causes you believe in, nothing. Just the chance of an anarchist being there invalidates everything.

///

112 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:54:18am

re: #106 HAL2010

Look, I've been following the "OWS" movement sporadically to say the least, but something I have not seen (most likely because of it) is some sort of clear vision of what the "OWS" people actually want.

Yes, I know it's organic and all that, and yes I know the Koch brothers did fund the TP movement to a large extent. But the TP movement was quite quick off the block to formulate some sort of vision of where they wanted things to go (not that I agree with their views).

So what exactly, do the "OWS" movement want?

Just go to their FAQ page.

113 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:54:42am

re: #109 Talking Point Detective

What he's saying isn't logically sound anyway. But he didn't mean she 'shouldn't' be there in an authoritarian way.

114 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:54:47am

re: #106 HAL2010

Look, I've been following the "OWS" movement sporadically to say the least, but something I have not seen (most likely because of it) is some sort of clear vision of what the "OWS" people actually want.

Yes, I know it's organic and all that, and yes I know the Koch brothers did fund the TP movement to a large extent. But the TP movement was quite quick off the block to formulate some sort of vision of where they wanted things to go (not that I agree with their views).

So what exactly, do the "OWS" movement want?

Again I am reminded of the women's movement.

So what exactly, do the "OWS" movement these women want?

115 Gus  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:54:56am

re: #104 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

So if I'm at an otherwise peaceful protest and the young punk next to me decides to pick a fight with the cops, then I'm at fault and thus a valid target for pepper spray or getting cracked upside the noggin with a police baton?

Apparently. They would probably consider that akin to collateral damage. So if you're at a protest and some nut pulls out a machine gun and start killing cops and the air force drops a 2000 pound JDAM on the protesters it would be your fault. This happens all the time in the ME.

I say this with tongue somewhat firmly in cheek.

116 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:55:08am

re: #110 EmmmieG

I don't.

All of those products and services are brought to you by quality companies dedicated to serving you well in a capitalistic system that works just fine.

The companies are not dedicated to 'serving you well', and the system doesn't work just fine.

117 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:55:15am

re: #107 albusteve

but how far from Toad's?
I like that place
[Link: www.toadsplace.com...]

Toad's is in New Haven, home of Yale University. New Haven is to Hartford what Manhattan is to Albany. They are in the same state, but in different worlds when it comes to culture and "cachet." New Haven is appx 40 miles south of Hartford

118 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:55:32am

re: #111 Lidane

Because if there's even the potential of an anarchist showing up at a protest, you should never, ever go. Don't speak up, don't stand up for causes you believe in, nothing. Just the chance of an anarchist being there invalidates everything.

///

If one of my children wanted to go to something, and I knew that there were anarchists there who intended to start trouble, I would advise them not to go.

In America, you have multiple avenues to get your message across without smashing stuff.

119 Targetpractice  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:55:42am

re: #106 HAL2010

Look, I've been following the "OWS" movement sporadically to say the least, but something I have not seen (most likely because of it) is some sort of clear vision of what the "OWS" people actually want.

Yes, I know it's organic and all that, and yes I know the Koch brothers did fund the TP movement to a large extent. But the TP movement was quite quick off the block to formulate some sort of vision of where they wanted things to go (not that I agree with their views).

So what exactly, do the "OWS" movement want?

The TPers were quick to come up with a "vision" because it came prepackaged, composed primarily of Obama hatred and reheated talking points. The movement boiled down to a lot of old white folks screaming "Down with government spending, but hands off my Medicare!"

120 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:55:52am

re: #106 HAL2010

Look, I've been following the "OWS" movement sporadically to say the least, but something I have not seen (most likely because of it) is some sort of clear vision of what the "OWS" people actually want.

Yes, I know it's organic and all that, and yes I know the Koch brothers did fund the TP movement to a large extent. But the TP movement was quite quick off the block to formulate some sort of vision of where they wanted things to go (not that I agree with their views).

So what exactly, do the "OWS" movement want?

[Link: www.rollingstone.com...]

121 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:56:16am

re: #114 wrenchwench

Again I am reminded of the women's movement.

So what exactly, do the "OWS" movement these women want?

To vote. To own property.

They were pretty eloquent and well-stated, I thought.

122 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:56:30am

re: #104 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

So if I'm at an otherwise peaceful protest and the young punk next to me decides to pick a fight with the cops, then I'm at fault and thus a valid target for pepper spray or getting cracked upside the noggin with a police baton?

Let's take the example of the young vet in Oakland who was seriously injured. He stood between police and protesters while protesters threw rocks and police lobbed tear gas. I'm sorry he was injured, especially seriously injured but he took a risk and probably know what was going on around him. If police targeted him intentionally they were wrong to do so. If he was hit by tear gas or a protesters rock accidentally then that's part of the risk he was taking.
To passively take part in a violent protest still carries risk.

123 lawhawk  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:57:03am

re: #117 _RememberTonyC

And none compares to Brooklyn!

124 RadicalModerate  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:57:22am

re: #79 McSpiff

Many of us have grown up without protests being successful, with some being largely negative. Saigon fell in 1975. Dr. King died in 68. I was born in 1987.

I grew up with riots at the G7/G20, the failed Iraq War protests, etc

I was born in 1963 - so when I was born both John and Robert Kennedy, as well as Martin Luther King were all still alive. I actually remember a great deal of 1968, especially the coverage of RFK's assassination. Martin Luther King's death didn't get nearly as much coverage in the area where I grew up. The Chicago Democratic Convention, Nixon's election and Apollo 8 I have clear memories of however. Since I was raised in a relatively conservative household, my views of these incidents were far different than what they are now. A worldview of mine that didn't really change until I was in Jr. High, and I actually started paying attention to political matters.

125 Talking Point Detective  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:57:45am

re: #113 Obdicut

What he's saying isn't logically sound anyway. But he didn't mean she 'shouldn't' be there in an authoritarian way.

Agreed.

But I'm trying to figure out what the fuck he is saying.

I'm trying to figure out if it's illogical or simply incoherent.

126 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:57:45am

re: #110 EmmmieG

I really, really liked this article.

[Link: www.daveramsey.com...]

Dave Ramsey needs to read Rightwingconspirator's link.

127 AK-47%  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:58:18am

re: #106 HAL2010

It is not a movement or a party. It is a bunch of people out protesting. Most of them are protesting against the policies of the financial industry and its interactions with government.

Other people are out there for other reasons.

It is not a movement, or a "brand" or an ideology. It is a group of individuals out expressing themselves. The only thing that ties them all together is the time and place they are doing it.

In that sense, it is near impossible to "support" or "disagree with" OWS. You can participate or not, you can listen to them or not.

128 erik_t  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:58:24am

re: #119 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

The TPers were quick to come up with a "vision" because it came prepackaged, composed primarily of Obama hatred and reheated talking points. The movement boiled down to a lot of old white folks screaming "Down with government spending, but hands off my Medicare!"

It's super easy to express a stupid talking point ineffectively. It's kind of hard to lay out in a nice clean soundbite that unfettered capitalism has preferentially helped those that already didn't need the help, and that our society and way of life needs, at the very least, some careful consideration so that we don't end up in another Gilded Age.

129 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:58:30am

re: #116 Obdicut

I don't.

The companies are not dedicated to 'serving you well', and the system doesn't work just fine.

I agree with this part:

“No Government Bailouts!”
Banks and big companies should not receive taxpayer money for a bailout while their CEOs are making hundreds of millions of dollars. If that’s your gripe, then you’re protesting in the wrong location. Pack up and head to Washington, D.C., to deliver your message to the current administration. Don’t get me wrong—I totally support a company’s freedom to pay their leaders well. I just don’t believe that I, as a taxpayer, should subsidize those huge salaries in the form of taxpayer bailouts.

130 Targetpractice  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:58:34am

re: #122 Killgore Trout

Let's take the example of the young vet in Oakland who was seriously injured. He stood between police and protesters while protesters threw rocks and police lobbed tear gas. I'm sorry he was injured, especially seriously injured but he took a risk and probably know what was going on around him. If police targeted him intentionally they were wrong to do so. If he was hit by tear gas or a protesters rock accidentally then that's part of the risk he was taking.
To passively take part in a violent protest still carries risk.

So is it your view that OWS protests are inherently violent or inevitably end as such?

131 HAL2010  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:58:36am

re: #112 Rightwingconspirator

Just go to their FAQ page.

Do you have specific demands?
Not currently. Several weeks ago, the Occupy Wall Street GA released a Declaration of Occupation here: [Link: www.nycga.net...] . It was passed unanimously by many other occupations around the country, but it is not a list of demands by any means.

Right.
I'm reading through the "Declaration of the Occupation of New York City", and I can't find anything specific at all.

I'm sorry but it seems rather like a lot of hot air. I can understand the anger, but it seems rather redundant without some sort of plan on how to move forward.

132 albusteve  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:58:47am

re: #117 _RememberTonyC

Toad's is in New Haven, home of Yale University. New Haven is to Hartford what Manhattan is to Albany. They are in the same state, but in different worlds when it comes to culture and "cachet." New Haven is appx 40 miles south of Hartford

every time I've partied up there it was always 'follow me!'...I knew it was in NH, just couldn't remember where NH was/is

133 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:58:49am

re: #123 lawhawk

And none compares to Brooklyn!

Grimaldi's Pizza ..... right below the bridge .... best pizza I ever had!

134 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:58:57am

re: #121 EmmmieG

To vote. To own property.

They were pretty eloquent and well-stated, I thought.

That was pretty early on in the movement. We still have lower representation in Congress than we forced the Iraqis to mandate.

135 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:59:07am

re: #99 Obdicut

No, that's not at all what Killgore is saying. Just because he's being hyperboblic doesn't mean everyone else should jump on the trampoline.

Lol KT apparently believes he has the right to tell grown people where and how they should protest. I find it to be a rwnj approach, and have no problems saying so. Others can agree or not.

136 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:59:15am

Ok, this is boring.
Time to #occupyskyrim. With violence!
laterz

137 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:59:38am

re: #125 Talking Point Detective

I think the fact he keeps shirking responsibility for having celebrated the macing of two non-violent female protesters means that what he says is incoherent, since he's not actually dealing with what he said or the factual inaccuracies of it.

138 Targetpractice  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:00:25pm

re: #128 erik_t

It's super easy to express a stupid talking point ineffectively. It's kind of hard to lay out in a nice clean soundbite that unfettered capitalism has preferentially helped those that already didn't need the help, and that our society and way of life needs, at the very least, some careful consideration so that we don't end up in another Gilded Age.

It is a might hard to boil down the very real problems with the current situation in a manner that are easy to understand, easy to repeat, and can't be characterized as "whining" by the opposition.

139 Lidane  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:00:25pm

re: #118 EmmmieG

If one of my children wanted to go to something, and I knew that there were anarchists there who intended to start trouble, I would advise them not to go.

Take that argument further.

Why protest against a war, like the anti-war protests against Iraq? You know that the anarchists and Code Pink douchebags are going to go, so why bother? Why fight for collective bargaining rights if some vandals might chance going and breaking shit? Same thing with OWS. Why raise awareness of injustice if a few radical elements are going to piggyback on the cause and be problematic?

If that's the case, no one should ever speak out on anything because of the possibility of negative elements showing up.

140 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:00:25pm

re: #135 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Nope. He's not trying to tell anyone where they can do anything, but where, in his opinion, they should. I think he's wrong. But the gulf between "You can't" and "You shouldn't" is a mile wide.

141 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:00:53pm

re: #114 wrenchwench

Again I am reminded of the women's movement.

So what exactly, do the "OWS" movement these women those n*****s want?

Shit, we gave them Cosby, why can't they ever be satisfied!

142 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:01:07pm

re: #132 albusteve

every time I've partied up there it was always 'follow me!'...I knew it was in NH, just couldn't remember where NH was/is

My older son is visiting his kid brother in A2 this weekend for the Nebraska/Michigan game .... wish I was joining them!

143 celticdragon  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:01:29pm

re: #39 wrenchwench

The wingnut meme of "ending it, like we did at Kent State" is wrong in several ways. One, young National Guardsmen shot in error, not rightwingers intending to end demonstrations. Two, it didn't end anything, as shown by Gus's Jackson State link, and by a half million people in Washington DC in 1971.

One of the people shot to death at Kent Statye was an ROTC cadet walking to class several hundred feet away. .30-06 rounds from M1 Garands carry a real long fucking way.

144 Talking Point Detective  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:01:44pm

re: #122 Killgore Trout

To passively take part in a violent protest still carries risk.

That is self-evident. You are simply stating the obvious. If you don't turn and run when something turns violent, or simply can't get out when something turns violent, your safety is at risk.

It seems that you're saying that if you show up at a protest, and violence breaks out, and you get injured, then you got what you deserved.

Is that what you're saying?

If it isn't what you were saying, are you saying anything other than what is self-evident?

And if you're not saying anything other than what is self-evident, why do you feel the need to say it? Do you think that others can't perceive what is self-evident?

145 Charles Johnson  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:01:57pm

Another unbelievably deranged thread at Fox Nation today with blatantly racist comments spewed at Obama:

[Link: nation.foxnews.com...]

The eggplant president and his filthy family are nothing but a bloated pile of m o n k e y excrement.

[...]

Did that shiftless baboon think he was 'cool' by doing that?

146 HAL2010  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:02:13pm
To the people of the world,

We, the New York City General Assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power.

Exercise your right to peaceably assemble; occupy public space; create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone.

To all communities that take action and form groups in the spirit of direct democracy, we offer support, documentation, and all of the resources at our disposal.

Reminds me of something.

147 erik_t  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:02:15pm

re: #143 celticdragon

He shouldn't have attended a university that he knew might draw in radical elements.

///

148 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:02:43pm

re: #130 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

So is it your view that OWS protests are inherently violent or inevitably end as such?

Not all the protests are violent but I do think there is an inherent violence that comes from the combination of peaceful hippies and violent anarchists. Much has been nade of the Kent State-type moment. Wingnuts have talked about it but the lefties are also guilty. They want an iconic image of police brutality are are perfectly willing to manufacture or incite it. The old lady was tear gassed because she was standing near black clock anarchists who were the targets. Then there was the guy who kept trying to stuff himself under a police scooter pretending to be run over. The protesters want a Kent State moment just as much, if not more, than anyone else.

149 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:02:49pm

Taibbi is a polemicist (a fairly good one), but he does some pretty good reporting, too:

Woman Gets Jail For Food-Stamp Fraud; Wall Street Fraudsters Get Bailouts

The total "cost" of her fraud was $4,367. She has paid the money back. But paying the money back was not enough for federal Judge Henry Wingate.

Wingate had the option of sentencing McLemore according to federal guidelines, which would have left her with a term of two months to eight months, followed by probation. Not good enough! Wingate was so outraged by McLemore’s fraud that he decided to serve her up the deluxe vacation, using another federal statute that permitted him to give her up to five years.

He ultimately gave her three years, saying, "The defendant's criminal record is simply abominable …. She has been the beneficiary of government generosity in state court."

Compare this court decision to the fraud settlements on Wall Street. Like McLemore, fraud defendants like Citigroup, Goldman Sachs, and Deutsche Bank have "been the beneficiary of government generosity." Goldman got $12.9 billion just through the AIG bailout. Citigroup got $45 billion, plus hundreds of billions in government guarantees.

All of these companies have been repeatedly dragged into court for fraud, and not one individual defendant has ever been forced to give back anything like a significant portion of his ill-gotten gains. The closest we've come is in a fraud case involving Citi, in which a pair of executives, Gary Crittenden and Arthur Tildesley, were fined the token amounts of $100,000 and $80,000, respectively, for lying to shareholders about the extent of Citi’s debt.

Neither man was forced to admit to intentional fraud. Both got to keep their jobs.

Anita McLemore, meanwhile, lied to feed her children, gave back every penny of her "fraud" when she got caught, and is now going to do three years in prison. Explain that, Eric Holder!

Equality before the law!

150 jamesfirecat  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:03:23pm

re: #131 HAL2010

Do you have specific demands?
Not currently. Several weeks ago, the Occupy Wall Street GA released a Declaration of Occupation here: [Link: www.nycga.net...] . It was passed unanimously by many other occupations around the country, but it is not a list of demands by any means.

Right.
I'm reading through the "Declaration of the Occupation of New York City", and I can't find anything specific at all.

I'm sorry but it seems rather like a lot of hot air. I can understand the anger, but it seems rather redundant without some sort of plan on how to move forward.

I think Jon Stewart handled this line best... if the people in government who get paid to deal with setting a course for our country did their jobs, then then John Q Protestor wouldn't have to.

OWS may lack a clear agenda or solution but that's because they're dealing with a very difficult problem and for the moment at least unlike those who said Americans were "Taxed Enough Already" when Taxes were at an all time low in our history at least OWS supporters are drawing attention to real problem (growing income inequality in America)

151 celticdragon  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:03:45pm

re: #122 Killgore Trout

Let's take the example of the young vet in Oakland who was seriously injured. He stood between police and protesters while protesters threw rocks and police lobbed tear gas. I'm sorry he was injured, especially seriously injured but he took a risk and probably know what was going on around him. If police targeted him intentionally they were wrong to do so. If he was hit by tear gas or a protesters rock accidentally then that's part of the risk he was taking.
To passively take part in a violent protest still carries risk.

You seem to be ignorant of the role that police often have in actually provoking violence where it hadn't been present before. Cops can defuse a tense situation or they can throw gasoline on it.

Also, people will take being pushed and beaten by police for only so long before somebody retaliates.

152 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:03:50pm

re: #145 Charles

Another unbelievably deranged thread at Fox Nation today with blatantly racist comments spewed at Obama:

[Link: nation.foxnews.com...]

Can always count on Fox Nation commentators for good, old fashioned racism.

153 justaminute  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:03:50pm

I think OWS is just getting started. Giving birth to something is always messy and painful. I remember (just barely) the Viet Nam War protests, Civil Rights protests and they went on for years. But I remember the complaints against it and they seem to be similar.

Neither political party seems to offer us a clear vision to move the country forward. As long as we have this great gap in income, no jobs prospects, declining wages and mounting college costs and debt, gridlock in Washington, OWS will be with us.

154 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:04:00pm

re: #139 Lidane

Take that argument further.

Why protest against a war, like the anti-war protests against Iraq? You know that the anarchists and Code Pink douchebags are going to go, so why bother? Why fight for collective bargaining rights if some vandals might chance going and breaking shit? Same thing with OWS. Why raise awareness of injustice if a few radical elements are going to piggyback on the cause and be problematic?

If that's the case, no one should ever speak out on anything because of the possibility of negative elements showing up.

I did not say do not speak up. I said don't go to the protest.

I would hope my children could write their thoughts out intelligibly, and be able to find or make an outlet for those written-out thoughts. You could show up at town halls or other such orderly venues.

Protests are not the only form of utilizing your first amendment.

155 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:04:08pm

re: #139 Lidane

It is one reason why a very peaceful movement is a powerful thing; it shows a level of commitment and organization. Occupy is purposefully disorganized, and so it is not capable of enforcing large-scale discipline. That does not mean that it is invalid, or that anyone going should expect a cop to walk up to them and randomly mace them in the face.

And even the Civil Rights marchers and protesters had outbreaks of violence. That that happened didn't invalidate anything of what they were doing, or excuse any of the attacks on them.

156 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:04:20pm

re: #140 Obdicut

Nope. He's not trying to tell anyone where they can do anything, but where, in his opinion, they should. I think he's wrong. But the gulf between "You can't" and "You shouldn't" is a mile wide.

Can't he speak for himself?

157 erik_t  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:04:22pm

re: #148 Killgore Trout

The protestors want one of their own to get shot and killed? Are you high?

158 Talking Point Detective  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:04:23pm

re: #137 Obdicut

I think the fact he keeps shirking responsibility for having celebrated the macing of two non-violent female protesters means that what he says is incoherent, since he's not actually dealing with what he said or the factual inaccuracies of it.

I agree. Same thing with the people are "supporting" rape and stabbings comment. It seems like incoherent rambling, disconnected from reality.

159 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:05:04pm

re: #148 Killgore Trout

The protesters want a Kent State moment just as much, if not more, than anyone else.

You don't even realize how much more like Alex Jones you sound every day.

160 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:05:16pm

re: #144 Talking Point Detective

That is self-evident. You are simply stating the obvious. If you don't turn and run when something turns violent, or simply can't get out when something turns violent, your safety is at risk.

It seems that you're saying that if you show up at a protest, and violence breaks out, and you get injured, then you got what you deserved.

Is that what you're saying?

If it isn't what you were saying, are you saying anything other than what is self-evident?

And if you're not saying anything other than what is self-evident, why do you feel the need to say it? Do you think that others can't perceive what is self-evident?

I guess grown people need the Concerned to determine that for us. 9_9

161 RadicalModerate  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:05:23pm

re: #148 Killgore Trout

The protesters want a Kent State moment just as much, if not more, than anyone else.

What the hell?

162 albusteve  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:05:26pm

re: #142 _RememberTonyC

My older son is visiting his kid brother in A2 this weekend for the Nebraska/Michigan game ... wish I was joining them!

yeah, a marquee game...a rousing good time....maybe it will be warm and sunny

163 Gus  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:05:53pm

re: #148 Killgore Trout

...The protesters want a Kent State moment just as much, if not more, than anyone else.

A Kent State moment would mean the protesters are seeking to be shot and killed by policemen or national guard units.

I'm having serious trouble with this statement.

164 Targetpractice  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:06:01pm

re: #148 Killgore Trout

Not all the protests are violent but I do think there is an inherent violence that comes from the combination of peaceful hippies and violent anarchists. Much has been nade of the Kent State-type moment. Wingnuts have talked about it but the lefties are also guilty. They want an iconic image of police brutality are are perfectly willing to manufacture or incite it. The old lady was tear gassed because she was standing near black clock anarchists who were the targets. Then there was the guy who kept trying to stuff himself under a police scooter pretending to be run over. The protesters want a Kent State moment just as much, if not more, than anyone else.

So then you're contending that choosing to attend an OWS protest, even if your intentions are peaceful, means you've chosen to involve yourself in a violent protest and so are a valid target when the pepper spray and batons come out?

165 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:06:33pm

some OWS activist is doing an interview on CNN where he said they'll be occupying 15 NYC subway stations and march across the Brooklyn Bridge. The reporter said the cops are OK with protesters being on the pedestrian walkway on the bridge and asked the guy if the protesters would abide by that. he responded that "most" will stay on the walking areas but "some" will be involved in non-violent protest in other areas. I smell trouble and bad craziness when Brooklynites trying to get home are prevented from doing so by people who are in areas that are supposed to be off limits.

166 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:06:45pm

re: #156 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Can't he speak for himself?

Sure. I can speak for myself too, and I'm saying that your interpretation of what he said is clearly wrong. If you don't want to listen, that's fine.

167 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:06:56pm

re: #164 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

So then you're contending that choosing to attend an OWS protest, even if your intentions are peaceful, means you've chosen to involve yourself in a violent protest and so are a valid target when the pepper spray and batons come out?

Uh, no. It's not a movement I'm interesting in participating in.

168 HAL2010  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:07:13pm

re: #150 jamesfirecat

I think Jon Stewart handled this line best... if the people in government who get paid to deal with setting a course for our country did their jobs, then then John Q Protestor wouldn't have to.

OWS may lack a clear agenda or solution but that's because they're dealing with a very difficult problem and for the moment at least unlike those who said Americans were "Taxed Enough Already" when Taxes were at an all time low in our history at least OWS supporters are drawing attention to real problem (growing income inequality in America)

It's the easiest thing in the world to argue that something is wrong, the difficult part is finding a solution.
There is not one mention of any kind of solution here or here.

Show me something positive they stand for and I might be able to actually support them. "Down with income inequality" simply does not cut it in my book.
Solutions please.

169 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:07:25pm

The protesters don't want a Kent State moment. You may disagree with their ideas but I've seen nothing that suggests they want their own to be killed and thus "martyred."

170 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:08:16pm

re: #148 Killgore Trout

The protesters want a Kent State moment just as much, if not more, than anyone else.

Nutty.

The black-bloc anarchists want a Kent State moment just as much as this Brietbart asshole.

Reasonable.

Why'd you go with 'nutty'?

You're ascribing the desires of a radical subset to the whole of the protesters.

171 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:08:50pm

re: #166 Obdicut

Sure. I can speak for myself too, and I'm saying that your interpretation of what he said is clearly wrong. If you don't want to listen, that's fine.

Thanks for the defense. I know you aren't exactly supportive of my position so I do appreciate it. I don't always have the patience for it.

172 Gus  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:09:05pm

re: #159 000G

You don't even realize how much more like Alex Jones you sound every day.

Mic check!

173 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:09:15pm

re: #127 ralphieboy

It is not a movement or a party.

Yes, it is a movement. Why do you think it's not?

174 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:09:44pm

re: #172 Gus 802

Mic check!

Mic check!

175 HAL2010  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:09:50pm

re: #169 HappyWarrior

The protesters don't want a Kent State moment. You may disagree with their ideas but I've seen nothing that suggests they want their own to be killed and thus "martyred."

I can't disagree with them, because they have no solutions or demands. They say so themselves.

Again, I have clearly not read enough, but what I have read does not bode well.

176 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:10:00pm

re: #171 Killgore Trout

You're welcome. Now you could pay me back by admitting that it's not that you "Didn't have sympathy" for the women who got maced, but that you relished it, enjoyed it, and commented on how much you enjoyed it, while falsely characterizing them as Marxist trust funders, and then again as hippies.

Doubt you will, though.

177 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:10:12pm

I really haven't had any problem with the protesters in DC. Heck I was with a friend who openly called them idiots and nothing happened. I really have no desire to join the protests though.

178 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:10:33pm

re: #168 HAL2010

It's the easiest thing in the world to argue that something is wrong, the difficult part is finding a solution.
I just there is not one mention of any kind of solution here or here.

Show me something positive they stand for and I might be able to actually support them. "Down with income inequality" simply does not cut it in my book.
Solutions please.

I hate having to use the Revolutionary War again, but the non-importation agreements of 1769 were very clear. They wanted specific taxes repealed. There was a defined victory. Taxes repealed. (Except for that pesky tea tax, but let's not discuss that now.)

What is OWS's defined victory? (I'm still waiting for them to come out with a list of banking regulations they would like to see passed. Or perhaps a list of candidates they could support. Give America something to work with. Lots of us agree with them that greed has wrecked the system, but how do you agree with a drum circle? How do you vote for resolutions that haven't been written?)

179 Targetpractice  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:10:39pm

re: #167 Killgore Trout

Uh, no. It's not a movement I'm interesting in participating in.

That wasn't the question, KT. Do you believe that these protests are inherently violent, such that my participation means I have willfully chosen to take part in a violent protest, regardless of my own intentions?

180 Talking Point Detective  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:10:41pm

re: #171 Killgore Trout

Thanks for the defense. I know you aren't exactly supportive of my position so I do appreciate it. I don't always have the patience for it.

Anyone have any extra tissues?

181 jamesfirecat  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:10:48pm

re: #168 HAL2010

It's the easiest thing in the world to argue that something is wrong, the difficult part is finding a solution.
I just there is not one mention of any kind of solution here or here.

Show me something positive they stand for and I might be able to actually support them. "Down with income inequality" simply does not cut it in my book.
Solutions please.

What solutions would you support if the movement came forward in an organized way to suggest they need to be implemented?

182 Lidane  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:11:10pm

re: #170 Obdicut

You're ascribing the desires of a radical subset to the whole of the protesters.

And he's been doing it for weeks, just like every other useful idiot anti-OWS concern troll and wingnut blogger.

The actions and outbursts of a radical subset have been ascribed to OWS as a whole. That's how the well was poisoned, and why the whole idea of anything ever changing is dead. Why bother when anyone speaking out or trying to raise awareness of issues is going to be accused of defending rape and stabby stab?

183 AK-47%  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:11:34pm

re: #173 000G

Yes, it is a movement. Why do you think it's not?

It is a "movement" only in the most general sense.

It has to central organization or policy. It is a group of people out protesting. I guess the fact that the people are all out at the same place and time and that most of them are protesting against the same thing makes it a "movement", but only in the loosest sense of the word.

184 albusteve  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:12:06pm

re: #171 Killgore Trout

Thanks for the defense. I know you aren't exactly supportive of my position so I do appreciate it. I don't always have the patience for it.

you don't to answer every frivolous nip and bite

185 Talking Point Detective  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:12:27pm

re: #163 Gus 802

A Kent State moment would mean the protesters are seeking to be shot and killed by policemen or national guard units.

I'm having serious trouble with this statement.

When Bush was president, I wanted all my friends and family to die in a terrorist attack so that we would get a Democrat elected.

186 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:12:29pm

re: #162 albusteve

yeah, a marquee game...a rousing good time...maybe it will be warm and sunny

Two teams that like to run the ball and play defense .... if I were a betting man, I'd bet the "under."

187 Beltboy  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:15:26pm

Correct me if I'm wrong, but did the Breitbart Editor-In-Chief threaten to throw a molitov cocktail into Macy's??
I think you need to see who's REALLY inciting the violence.

188 erik_t  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:15:35pm

re: #182 Lidane

My kingdom for a killfile.

189 HAL2010  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:15:35pm

re: #181 jamesfirecat

What solutions would you support if the movement came forward in an organized way to suggest they need to be implemented?

Clear legislation. Close the loopholes, for instance. Separate savings from investment banks (i.e. banks can't do both).

More transparency in donations to political parties, and a cap or even ban on corporations making donations.

Yes, he's a douche, but Jack Abramoff's suggestions on how to end lobbying in Washington aren't that bad.

Just off the top of my head.

190 iossarian  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:15:36pm

re: #183 ralphieboy

It is a "movement" only in the most general sense.

It has to central organization or policy. It is a group of people out protesting. I guess the fact that the people are all out at the same place and time and that most of them are protesting against the same thing makes it a "movement", but only in the loosest sense of the word.

The OWS movement's aversion to "leadership" can, I think, be explained by the high degree to which American political leadership, at all levels, has been co-opted by capital to do its bidding (rather than the bidding of the people regardless of wealth). For the protestors, if you call yourself a "leader", you are automatically suspect. Sucks, but then that's the way things have been done in the US for years, so it's not very surprising.

On the other hand, I think there are several policy proposals that would find near-universal support from the protestors, one of which is the raising of taxes on upper-income earners, and the use of the resulting revenue to pay for expanded social services.

191 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:15:45pm

re: #175 HAL2010

I can't disagree with them, because they have no solutions or demands. They say so themselves.

Again, I have clearly not read enough, but what I have read does not bode well.

They have plenty of demands and solutions, actually. Just no coherent, central platform.

192 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:15:54pm

re: #168 HAL2010

It's the easiest thing in the world to argue that something is wrong, the difficult part is finding a solution.
I just there is not one mention of any kind of solution here or here.

Show me something positive they stand for and I might be able to actually support them. "Down with income inequality" simply does not cut it in my book.
Solutions please.

I think there is something positive about listing grievances and rallying people. If you want a list of solutions before you would consider supporting that, then fine. Don't support it.

193 Gus  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:16:31pm

re: #187 Beltboy

Mic check!

194 HAL2010  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:16:52pm

re: #191 000G

They have plenty of demands and solutions, actually. Just no coherent, central platform.

Any place where these demands can be read?

195 albusteve  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:17:01pm

re: #186 _RememberTonyC

Two teams that like to run the ball and play defense ... if I were a betting man, I'd bet the "under."

I have never bet on college football...to damned unpredictable, such huge teams...but I call it pretty even and since it's at the Big House, UM has an edge there

196 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:17:44pm

re: #187 Beltboy

Correct me if I'm wrong, but did the Breitbart Editor-In-Chief threaten to throw a molitov cocktail into Macy's??
I think you need to see who's REALLY inciting the violence.

I think your nic is a call for violence.

197 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:17:44pm

re: #193 Gus 802

Mic check!

Please tell me you aren't doing the jazz hands of consensus?

(What would have been so wrong with a thumb's up?)

198 HAL2010  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:18:37pm

re: #192 wrenchwench

I think there is something positive about listing grievances and rallying people. If you want a list of solutions before you would consider supporting that, then fine. Don't support it.

You say you got a real solution
Well, you know
We'd all love to see the plan

Youtube Video
199 jamesfirecat  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:18:46pm

re: #189 HAL2010

Clear legislation. Close the loopholes, for instance. Separate savings from investment banks (i.e. banks can't do both).

More transparency in donations to political parties, and a cap or even ban on corporations making donations.

Yes, he's a douche, but Jack Abramoff's suggestions on how to end lobbying in Washington aren't that bad.

Just off the top of my head.

Your suggestions seem sound and logical and I'll do what I can (which is precious little) to see that they become mainstream within the OccupyX movement.

200 erik_t  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:18:56pm

re: #195 albusteve

I'm still a little unconvinced that Borges really knows what he wants to do against a pretty stout defense. This whole notion of saving Denard from injury is noble but... if you're not playing him against Nebraska or Ohio State, precisely for what are you saving him?

201 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:19:31pm

re: #176 Obdicut

You're welcome. Now you could pay me back by admitting that it's not that you "Didn't have sympathy" for the women who got maced, but that you relished it, enjoyed it, and commented on how much you enjoyed it, while falsely characterizing them as Marxist trust funders, and then again as hippies.

Doubt you will, though.

Sure the dopey hippies got maced while participating in a violent protest. They weren't seriously injured.

202 iossarian  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:19:48pm

re: #198 HAL2010

You say you got a real solution
Well, you know
We'd all love to see the plan

[Video]

Tax dodgers!

The Beatles wrote great music but I don't really have much time for their message on social issues.

203 Gus  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:20:47pm

re: #201 Killgore Trout

Sure the dopey hippies got maced while participating in a violent protest. They weren't seriously injured.

You keep using the word hippie over and over again. Can I ask you a question? What are you? I mean besides being Mr. Perfect?

204 albusteve  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:21:02pm

re: #194 HAL2010

Any place where these demands can be read?

somebody should put up a manifest and set of goals in the WSJ

205 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:21:11pm

re: #198 HAL2010

You say you got a real solution
Well, you know
We'd all love to see the plan

[Video]

Back atcha:

Youtube Video
206 HAL2010  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:21:11pm

re: #199 jamesfirecat

Your suggestions seem sound and logical and I'll do what I can (which is precious little) to see that they become mainstream within the OccupyX movement.

Why thank you. I find it somewhat bizarre that a movement can claim to speak for the "99 %" when they don't even know what they are meant to be saying.

Just a thought. If I can figure those things out in 2 minutes, there should be plenty of better ideas out there, without the need for the crazies to take over.

207 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:21:13pm

re: #201 Killgore Trout

Sure the dopey hippies got maced while participating in a violent protest. They weren't seriously injured.

And you celebrated that attack on them. Which you still are avoiding actually taking responsibility for. Which is still sad. And they're not hippies, and you're still claiming they are. Which is just fucking weird.

208 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:21:41pm

re: #184 albusteve

you don't to answer every frivolous nip and bite

It's hard to resist. Now I've got a ton of idiots claiming that I think the protesters want to get themselves killed. It's hard not to fight back because this stuff quickly becomes accepted as established fact. I figure it's probably a lost cause so I try not to worry about it.

209 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:22:14pm

re: #178 EmmmieG

What is OWS's defined victory? (I'm still waiting for them to come out with a list of banking regulations they would like to see passed. Or perhaps a list of candidates they could support. Give America something to work with. Lots of us agree with them that greed has wrecked the system, but how do you agree with a drum circle? How do you vote for resolutions that haven't been written?)

Errrr. There's plenty "to work with". See the gentleman with his list of demands in this blog post by lawhawk (couple of images in the post): [Link: lawhawk.blogspot.com...]

See lawhawk's blog posts on OWS in general to get some sense of there being more than just drum circles:
[Link: lawhawk.blogspot.com...]

210 RadicalModerate  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:22:22pm

re: #201 Killgore Trout

Sure the dopey hippies got maced while participating in a violent protest. They weren't seriously injured.

Tell that to Scott Olsen.

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

211 Lidane  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:22:38pm

re: #201 Killgore Trout

Sure the dopey hippies got maced while participating in a violent protest. They weren't seriously injured.

Get maced once, or see the effects of someone who's been maced and then tell me it's not a serious injury. A friend of mine got maced by some drunk asshole without any provocation at all. I saw what they went through. It wasn't pretty.

212 Lidane  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:23:44pm

re: #208 Killgore Trout

It's hard to resist. Now I've got a ton of idiots claiming that I think the protesters want to get themselves killed.

You may not want them to get themselves killed, but you'll damn sure celebrate from the rooftops when they do, right? I mean, that's what all your posts have implied for weeks now.

213 erik_t  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:23:55pm

re: #208 Killgore Trout

It's hard to resist. Now I've got a ton of idiots claiming that I think the protesters want to get themselves killed. It's hard not to fight back because this stuff quickly becomes accepted as established fact. I figure it's probably a lost cause so I try not to worry about it.

-

The protesters want a Kent State moment just as much, if not more, than anyone else.

What, exactly, defines a 'Kent State moment'? Is the relevant aspect that it happened, say, on a hill? Or that it occurred on May 4th? Or that people were wearing bell-bottoms?

Or perhaps that people were killed?

214 HAL2010  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:24:08pm

re: #205 wrenchwench

Back atcha:

[Video]

If I could find the clip from anchorman where he goes "LOUD NOISES!", this is when I would post it.

215 albusteve  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:24:08pm

re: #202 iossarian

Tax dodgers!

The Beatles wrote great music but I don't really have much time for their message on social issues.

tax dodgers?...you may have them confused with U2

216 Gus  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:24:08pm

re: #208 Killgore Trout

It's hard to resist. Now I've got a ton of idiots claiming that I think the protesters want to get themselves killed. It's hard not to fight back because this stuff quickly becomes accepted as established fact. I figure it's probably a lost cause so I try not to worry about it.

Ah. Now we have "idiots" thrown in with "hippies." It's Killgore against the world! I'm not mad though KT. I really think most of what you're saying has reached the point of absurdity bordering on a screen play worthy of The Onion.

217 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:24:20pm

re: #208 Killgore Trout

Now I've got a ton of idiots claiming that I think the protesters want to get themselves killed.

What is a Kent State moment if not protesters getting killed, Killgore?

218 jamesfirecat  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:25:08pm

re: #206 HAL2010

Why thank you. I find it somewhat bizarre that a movement can claim to speak for the "99 %" when they don't even know what they are meant to be saying.

Just a thought. If I can figure those things out in 2 minutes, there should be plenty of better ideas out there, without the need for the crazies to take over.

Honestly I'm not surprised that a movement which claims to speak for 99% has trouble figuring out exactly what they're saying, given how politically charged things are at the moment. Its easy for any one person to have good ideas, its harder to sincerely speak for the majority of people.

Like many have said before the OWS movement is still in the development stages... it will be telling what happens over the next few months as it becomes too cold for sustained outside protest.

219 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:25:13pm

re: #194 HAL2010

Any place where these demands can be read?

All over the place, really. You might just google for ows demands or occupy demands and then ignore the search results that pretend there aren't any.

220 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:26:18pm

re: #207 Obdicut

And you celebrated that attack on them. Which you still are avoiding actually taking responsibility for. Which is still sad. And they're not hippies, and you're still claiming they are. Which is just fucking weird.

I'm trying to be more diplomatic and keep my LGF account. Repeatedly making the same statement is just going to inflame the outrageously outraged and cause problems. My statement was harsh and pissed a lot of people off. I wasn't expecting so much support for what I see as violent and radical protests. My views haven't changed but repeating the same statement is going to get me banned.

221 HAL2010  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:26:33pm

re: #219 000G

All over the place, really. You might just google for ows demands or occupy demands and then ignore the search results that pretend there aren't any.

FAQ about the Occupy Movement

Nope.

Declaration of the Occupation of New York Cit

And Nope.

222 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:27:00pm

re: #210 RadicalModerate

Tell that to Scott Olsen.

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

I addressed that example upthread.

223 erik_t  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:27:17pm

Oh, oh, I've got it!

The protesters want a Kent State moment just as much, if not more, than anyone else.

How devious! How cunning! They have zero want for it, just like everyone else! One big happy family. Boy, that KT fellow sure showed us we have to read carefully!

/

224 HAL2010  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:27:35pm

re: #218 jamesfirecat

Honestly I'm not surprised that a movement which claims to speak for 99% has trouble figuring out exactly what they're saying, given how politically charged things are at the moment. Its easy for any one person to have good ideas, its harder to sincerely speak for the majority of people.

Like many have said before the OWS movement is still in the development stages... it will be telling what happens over the next few months as it becomes too cold for sustained outside protest.

You know, they could form a PAC?

Another quick suggestion.

225 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:27:46pm

The Continental Congress (2nd) had a committee to write the declaration. I can name four of the five members off the top of my head. (I always have to back and look up that 5th--Robert Livingston.)

Appoint a committee to write it. Five men works great, or Thomas Jefferson, whichever is greater.

Or the one man on the blog with the poster. He looked like he could write coherently.

226 Beltboy  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:28:41pm

re: #224 HAL2010
They sure could start a PAC. They could call it "Mommy & Daddy's Money"

227 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:28:44pm

re: #183 ralphieboy

It is a "movement" only in the most general sense.

It has to central organization or policy. It is a group of people out protesting. I guess the fact that the people are all out at the same place and time and that most of them are protesting against the same thing makes it a "movement", but only in the loosest sense of the word.

Actually, it's several groups out there protesting, in several different cities, all across the country, and only very loosely coordinated with one another but with a roughly shared set of common goals, strategies, tactics, and ideals. That is the quintessential specific definition of a movement. It's not the "loosest" sense of the word. It's the proper sociological term.

228 Big Joe  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:29:05pm

Oh, this is special.

Reporters For Right-Wing Publication Daily Caller Beaten By NYPD, Helped By Protesters

229 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:29:13pm

re: #217 Obdicut

What is a Kent State moment if not protesters getting killed, Killgore?

I cited examples of what I was talking about in my post. None of the OWS examples I offered included involved getting people killed. I'm not going to defend against this stuff all day and shouldn't have attempted in this case. I'll let it go and you can believe whatever you want.

230 HAL2010  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:29:26pm

re: #225 EmmmieG

The Continental Congress (2nd) had a committee to write the declaration. I can name four of the five members off the top of my head. (I always have to back and look up that 5th--Robert Livingston.)

Appoint a committee to write it. Five men works great, or Thomas Jefferson, whichever is greater.

Or the one man on the blog with the poster. He looked like he could write coherently.

I don't mean to sounds utterly condescending towards OWS, but somehow I doubt there is a Thomas Jefferson amongst them.

231 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:29:32pm

re: #221 HAL2010

See my #209. You're not trying hard enough.

232 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:29:34pm

re: #220 Killgore Trout

That's fucking weak. You're not being more diplomatic, you're claiming that you just 'didn't have sympathy', when in fact you celebrated the attack on them.

233 Gus  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:29:44pm

re: #226 Beltboy

They sure could start a PAC. They could call it "Mommy & Daddy's Money"

You should start a PAC with Chunkymonkey. Call it "Dumb and Dumber."

234 erik_t  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:29:46pm

re: #225 EmmmieG

The Continental Congress, to their great fortune, was able to crowd everyone into a room at once.

Though we call the movement 'Occupy Wall Street', a substantial minority of the news stories and protestors are in New York State, never mind a single room in Philly.

235 jamesfirecat  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:30:06pm

re: #224 HAL2010

You know, they could form a PAC?

Another quick suggestion.

Somehow I think they'd prefer to speak with their own voices rather than with money.... just taking a shot in the dark but there it is...

236 justaminute  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:30:07pm

re: #218 jamesfirecat

I don't think they will have a sustained encampment in a bitter cold environment but I bet they will try. I think they will have spontaneous marches and protests throughout the winter. They thought the Wisconsin protests would fizzle out during their cold weather and that didn't happen.

237 Lidane  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:30:40pm

re: #220 Killgore Trout

I wasn't expecting so much support for what I see as violent and radical protests.

And yet, when you saw some sympathetic posts towards the ideas behind OWS, you just upped the ante, getting more and more irrational and deranged over the intervening weeks. Now, anyone who is even mildly empathetic to OWS is just an outrageously outraged person who supports rape and stabby stab.

You created this environment. Live with it.

238 Lidane  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:31:53pm

re: #224 HAL2010

Because really, a group of people who see themselves as outsiders and the government as hopelessly co-opted and corrupt are going to form a PAC.

239 iossarian  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:32:11pm

re: #237 Lidane

You created this environment. Live with it.

Or, to put it another way, "you created this environment, and now the rest of us, who don't harbor deranged fantasies of violence against the protestors, have to put up with it all the fucking time."

240 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:32:13pm

re: #229 Killgore Trout

I cited examples of what I was talking about in my post. None of the OWS examples I offered included involved getting people killed. I'm not going to defend against this stuff all day and shouldn't have attempted in this case. I'll let it go and you can believe whatever you want.

Blaming other people for your stupid, hyperbolic language and inability to communicate is also pathetic.

None of the examples you gave involved getting people killed. But Kent State did, and that's what you said they want. If you didn't mean that, then don't fucking say it. And if you do say it, and don't mean it, then say that you were wrong and move on. Don't just say that using the most iconic image of people shooting protesters wasn't actually supposed to be a reference to people shooting protesters. It strains credulity.

241 RadicalModerate  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:32:32pm

re: #220 Killgore Trout

I'm trying to be more diplomatic and keep my LGF account. Repeatedly making the same statement is just going to inflame the outrageously outraged and cause problems. My statement was harsh and pissed a lot of people off. I wasn't expecting so much support for what I see as violent and radical protests. My views haven't changed but repeating the same statement is going to get me banned.

Honestly, unless you overtly call for violence against someone, post personal information about a user or directly attack other posters here, I don't think that you're in any danger of losing your account here. There are individuals who have engaged in MUCH more dishonest and inflammatory posting than you that still have active accounts.

That being said, if you make an over-the-top claim, we're damned sure going to call you out on it and insist that you explain or defend it.

242 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:32:52pm

re: #217 Obdicut

What is a Kent State moment if not protesters getting killed, Killgore?

An excuse for Neil Young to write a song?
/

Youtube Video
243 engineer cat  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:33:04pm

re: #208 Killgore Trout

It's hard to resist. Now I've got a ton of idiots

being part of a community means respecting the other people there

personally, i think of posting here as being part of a community, trying to play by the rules, apologizing when i make a mistake, trying to understand what other people want out of discussions here and respecting it, not insulting other people here gratuitously but trying to disagree with them in a respectful way, and generally trying to make friends and have interesting conversations

appointing myself perpetual Son of Spam of all threads, casting about gratuitous insults, crying about being mistreated, and patting myself on the back with a self satisfied smile when i make an asshole of myself yet again because i feel i'm "winning" don't fall under this description

/rant off

244 HAL2010  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:34:16pm

re: #231 000G

I'm looking, I really am, but I do not see a set of demands. There was one guy with suggestions about the banks, but the image is to small to read.

As well as "hydrofracking, medicare for all, and health care, as well as outsourcing of jobs" on one of the pictures.

Just what has that got to do with Wall Street and not a generally progressive or democratic agenda?

245 Gus  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:34:23pm

Hard to believe that it's 2011 and we're still hearing some of the same rhetoric we used to hear in the early 70s. It's like watching an episode of "All in the Family" sometimes.

246 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:35:49pm

re: #230 HAL2010

I don't mean to sounds utterly condescending towards OWS, but somehow I doubt there is a Thomas Jefferson amongst them.

That's okay, there may not be one alive on the earth anywhere right now.

247 albusteve  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:36:01pm

OWS in a nutshell...
[Link: www.weeklystandard.com...]

248 HAL2010  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:36:23pm

re: #235 jamesfirecat

Somehow I think they'd prefer to speak with their own voices rather than with money... just taking a shot in the dark but there it is...

How is that not the same thing?

The PAC has a platform (support the 99%!) and people who agree can donate. Simple.

249 Kragar  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:36:33pm

Bachmann: Obama Wants More ‘Violence’ So He Can Regulate Guns

In an appearance in Storm Lake on Wednesday morning, Bachmann suggested that Operation Fast and Furious — the much-criticized Department of Justice program that allowed the sale of weapons to Mexican criminal organizations — might be a scheme to justify new gun regulations in the United States.

“The scuttlebutt is that the reason why they gave them these guns is to create more violence on the border so that President Obama can call for gun control,” she told the crowd in Storm Lake.

250 iossarian  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:36:46pm

re: #244 HAL2010

Just what has that got to do with Wall Street and not a generally progressive or democratic agenda?

You mean the agenda that is currently steamrollering Republican opposition through the usual channels, and saving everyone from economic disaster (not to mention catastrophic global warming)?

/

251 Targetpractice  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:37:16pm

re: #249 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Bachmann: Obama Wants More ‘Violence’ So He Can Regulate Guns

*headdesk*

252 erik_t  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:37:24pm

re: #246 EmmmieG

And in complete fairness to Thomas Jefferson, the world he lived in, and the country he helped to form, was a bit less interconnected and complex than this one.

253 jamesfirecat  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:37:58pm

re: #248 HAL2010

How is that not the same thing?

The PAC has a platform (support the 99%!) and people who agree can donate. Simple.

Because it says more to have a couple dozen thousand people gather together somewhere than it does to spend a couple dozen thousand on a commercial.

Besides, a commercial you can just turn off/change the channel, an actual protest not so much...

254 Lidane  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:38:55pm

re: #247 albusteve

OWS in a nutshell...
[Link: www.weeklystandard.com...]

Oh, come on. What does that have to do with a bunch of hippies in a park?

///

255 HAL2010  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:39:21pm

re: #250 iossarian

You mean the agenda that is currently steamrollering Republican opposition through the usual channels, and saving everyone from economic disaster (not to mention catastrophic global warming)?

/

Could you please rephrase that?

I am sorry but I am actually not sure what you mean. I don't mean that in some snarky sense at all, it's just I don't get it.

256 Beltboy  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:39:36pm

re: #251 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I had the same reaction when I heard the Obama administration was running guns into Mexico in the first place. Holder belongs in jail!
To that end Bachmann makes perfect sense!

257 aagcobb  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:39:46pm

re: #249 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Bachmann: Obama Wants More ‘Violence’ So He Can Regulate Guns

Bachmann doubles down on the derp as she desperately tries to make herself relevant again.

258 albusteve  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:39:57pm

not too many ideas regarding what's next for OWS....I thought there would be a flood of ideas

259 RadicalModerate  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:39:57pm

re: #249 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Bachmann: Obama Wants More ‘Violence’ So He Can Regulate Guns

Yeah. Obama's the one calling for "Second-Amendment Remedies".

Oh sorry. That would be the Tea Party, which strangely enough, whose congressional caucus you just so happen to chair.

260 Gus  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:40:58pm

Oh boy. We got ourselves a real Wurlitzer playing RWNJ here.

261 jaunte  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:41:07pm

re: #256 Beltboy

What was your reaction to Operation Wide Receiver?

262 Sionainn  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:41:07pm

re: #201 Killgore Trout

Sure the dopey hippies got maced while participating in a violent protest. They weren't seriously injured.

I don't get all this "hippie" nonsense. I know three people who have participated in OWS rallies and none of them are hippies. One is a Vietnam vet who works tirelessly to see that veterans aren't being jacked around by the system and get the medical attention that they need. The other two are my aunt and uncle (age 70), one a middle school math teacher and the other retired from designing parks for the parks and rec department. They aren't violent, they can articulate what they see as the problems and offer solutions, and they certainly aren't "hippies." Good grief.

263 Lidane  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:41:37pm

re: #257 aagcobb

Bachmann doubles down on the derp as she desperately tries to make herself relevant again.

She'll be relevant after Gingrich and Cain lose ground in the polls and Perry drops out. =P

264 Kragar  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:41:41pm

re: #257 aagcobb

Bachmann doubles down on the derp as she desperately tries to make herself relevant again.

Bachmann: A Seven-Foot Doctor Told Me Obamacare Requires The IRS To Pre-Approve Medical Treatments

Bachmann complained that undocumented immigrants are exempt from paying for the law, claimed that a seven-foot doctor told her the IRS had to approve medical procedures, and reiterated her long-standing view that doctors and hospitals would provide free care to the uninsured if they were shielded from malpractice claims.

265 HAL2010  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:41:47pm

re: #253 jamesfirecat

Because it says more to have a couple dozen thousand people gather together somewhere than it does to spend a couple dozen thousand on a commercial.

Besides, a commercial you can just turn off/change the channel, an actual protest not so much...

Because right now they are making a difference?
If everyone who is part of OWS donated say 50 bucks each they could easily have a large say in who the democratic nominees are on a local level, and perhaps even congress.

266 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:42:18pm

re: #249 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Bachmann: Obama Wants More ‘Violence’ So He Can Regulate Guns

Now I know why drugs are illegal, thanks Michele Bachmann for demostrating why.

267 jamesfirecat  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:42:33pm

re: #264 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Bachmann: A Seven-Foot Doctor Told Me Obamacare Requires The IRS To Pre-Approve Medical Treatments

And I loose another game of "Onion or not" with myself...

268 Targetpractice  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:42:37pm

re: #256 Beltboy

I had the same reaction when I heard the Obama administration was running guns into Mexico in the first place. Holder belongs in jail!
To that end Bachmann makes perfect sense!

Running guns into Mexico? Really?

You're seeing a whole team of psychiatrists, aren't you?

269 jamesfirecat  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:43:24pm

re: #265 HAL2010

Because right now they are making a difference?
If everyone who is part of OWS donated say 50 bucks each they could easily have a large say in who the democratic nominees are on a local level, and perhaps even congress.

Why do you think the issue of money having too much pull in politics can be solved by people using money to gain pull in politics?

270 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:43:37pm

re: #268 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Running guns into Mexico? Really?

You're seeing a whole team of psychiatrists, aren't you?

Job Creation! Let's see Obama match that!!!11!!!

271 jaunte  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:43:46pm

re: #261 jaunte

What was your reaction to Operation Wide Receiver?

I'll go ahead and answer. You never heard about it before, because it couldn't be used to discredit a Democratic administration.

272 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:43:57pm

re: #262 Sionainn

I don't get all this "hippie" nonsense. I know three people who have participated in OWS rallies and none of them are hippies. One is a Vietnam vet who works tirelessly to see that veterans aren't being jacked around by the system and get the medical attention that they need. The other two are my aunt and uncle (age 70), one a middle school math teacher and the other retired from designing parks for the parks and rec department. They aren't violent, they can articulate what they see as the problems and offer solutions, and they certainly aren't "hippies." Good grief.

I don't either. But it's the same that claim they're all trust fund brats too. It's a diverse crowd.

273 albusteve  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:44:08pm

re: #268 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Running guns into Mexico? Really?

You're seeing a whole team of psychiatrists, aren't you?

what do you call it?

274 HAL2010  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:44:27pm

re: #269 jamesfirecat

Why do you think the issue of money having too much pull in politics can be solved by people using money to gain pull in politics?

This isn't the grid. You don't win the game by not playing.

275 iossarian  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:45:12pm

re: #265 HAL2010

Because right now they are making a difference?
If everyone who is part of OWS donated say 50 bucks each they could easily have a large say in who the democratic nominees are on a local level, and perhaps even congress.

I think that anyone who believes that donating 50 bucks to a congressional hopeful is more effective in driving the national political climate than taking part in the protests is delusional. That was also what I meant earlier about the "progressive democratic agenda".

276 lawhawk  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:45:15pm

re: #269 jamesfirecat

It's a feedback loop.

To work towards a solution, you've got to engage in the very practices that causes the problems.

277 RadicalModerate  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:45:31pm

re: #274 HAL2010

This isn't the grid. You don't win the game by not playing.

How about a nice game of chess?

278 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:45:39pm

Well Wayne LaPierre of the NRA claimed a couple months back that Obama has left gun rights alone to lure gunowners into a false sense of security. I mean damn crack really is wack.

279 leftynyc  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:45:39pm

re: #148 Killgore Trout

The protesters want a Kent State moment just as much, if not more, than anyone else.

Until now I've merely found you disruptive and childish - that remark is truly digusting and, IMHO, should be removed from what is a truly decent site.

280 HAL2010  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:46:00pm

re: #277 RadicalModerate

How about a nice game of chess?

I prefer backgammon or digital jazz.

281 Sionainn  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:46:50pm

re: #272 HappyWarrior

I don't either. But it's the same that claim they're all trust fund brats too. It's a diverse crowd.

Yeah, you're right. I can guarantee that the people I spoke of didn't have trust funds, either. In fact, it's pretty laughable.

282 HAL2010  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:47:36pm

re: #275 iossarian

I think that anyone who believes that donating 50 bucks to a congressional hopeful is more effective in driving the national political climate than taking part in the protests is delusional. That was also what I meant earlier about the "progressive democratic agenda".

No you create a PAC which can be the focal point for the OWS movement. The PAC then channels the demands.

That is not delusional, its practical, would work, and would force the movement to articulate more clearly, what they actually want.

283 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:47:55pm

re: #281 Sionainn

Yeah, you're right. I can guarantee that the people I spoke of didn't have trust funds, either. In fact, it's pretty laughable.

It's even more laughable coming from the people who support policies that coddle the very wealthy.

284 jamesfirecat  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:48:02pm

re: #274 HAL2010

This isn't the grid. You don't win the game by not playing.

Then we've already lost because the USA has become an Oligarchy instead of a democracy where money is able to speak louder than massed human protest.

285 RadicalModerate  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:48:25pm

re: #280 HAL2010

I prefer backgammon or digital jazz.

*facepalm*

Youtube Video
286 iossarian  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:50:44pm

re: #282 HAL2010

No you create a PAC which can be the focal point for the OWS movement. The PAC then channels the demands.

That is not delusional, its practical, would work, and would force the movement to articulate more clearly, what they actually want.

There are already a few such efforts. ActBlue is the most obvious one that springs to mind.

I don't think the US is lacking in channels for people to push progressive causes by making political donations. It's not working all that effectively at the moment, though, is it?

287 albusteve  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:50:49pm

re: #284 jamesfirecat

Then we've already lost because the USA has become an Oligarchy instead of a democracy where money is able to speak louder than massed human protest.

exactly....Walter used to describe it so eloquently....it's way beyond prevention at this point and massive policy changes are doubtful...maybe the courts can intercede somehow

288 HAL2010  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:51:25pm

re: #284 jamesfirecat

Then we've already lost because the USA has become an Oligarchy instead of a democracy where money is able to speak louder than massed human protest.

Well with that logic Obama is an oligarch. You actually believe that or are you being silly?

289 Beltboy  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:51:58pm

I'm sorry I said "run" guns into Mexico.
The proper term is "walk" guns into Mexico.

My bad. LOL!

Too bad for Obama-- a Border Patrol Agent was killed over Fast & Furious.
And to bring up Wide Receiver smacks of desperation.

290 leftynyc  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:52:04pm

re: #208 Killgore Trout

It's hard to resist. Now I've got a ton of idiots claiming that I think the protesters want to get themselves killed. It's hard not to fight back because this stuff quickly becomes accepted as established fact. I figure it's probably a lost cause so I try not to worry about it.

I'm beginning to think you're senile. Just upthread you said the protesters were hoping for a Kent State moment - now you're claiming you never said that the protesters want to get themselves killed. Make up your fucking mind already.

291 HAL2010  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:52:28pm

re: #285 RadicalModerate

Youtube Video
292 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:52:43pm

re: #13 darthstar

And Rick Perry challenges Nancy Pelosi to a debate...uh, Rick, you can't even handle your fellow fucktards in the GOP like Bachmann, Santorum, and Cain...and you want to go up against Nancy?

Listen, "Rick"...Nancy'd rip you a new asshole and shove your head up it before you could say teabagger.

Pay-Per-View. If they would just Pay-Per-View these things, it would be great. We could use the money for all sorts of things.

293 erik_t  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:52:58pm

re: #278 HappyWarrior

Well Wayne LaPierre of the NRA claimed a couple months back that Obama has left gun rights alone to lure gunowners into a false sense of security. I mean damn crack really is wack.

Well, you know, Bush Jr. chose not to superhate on immigrants so that he could get a bunch of immigrants into the country to destroy the country so that the libruls wouldn't be able to get people to support immigrants anymore so that immigrants would stop coming into the country. Also, too.

294 albusteve  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:53:10pm

re: #288 HAL2010

Well with that logic Obama is an oligarch. You actually believe that or are you being silly?

of course he is...every president is a participant or member or whatever you want to call them

295 leftynyc  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:53:43pm

re: #216 Gus 802

Ah. Now we have "idiots" thrown in with "hippies." It's Killgore against the world! I'm not mad though KT. I really think most of what you're saying has reached the point of absurdity bordering on a screen play worthy of The Onion.

You can't get mad when someone is behaving exactly like a 3 year old.

296 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:53:54pm

re: #139 Lidane

Take that argument further.

[snip]

If that's the case, no one should ever speak out on anything because of the possibility of negative elements showing up.

Or being paid to show up.

297 HAL2010  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:54:27pm

Well, it's been interesting, but I am going to study a bit more.

Good night!

298 jamesfirecat  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:55:37pm

re: #288 HAL2010

Well with that logic Obama is an oligarch. You actually believe that or are you being silly?

Why must I believe that Obama is an oligarch exactly?

I'm just opposed to the idea of shifting the weight of OWS away from protests and onto money gathering because I feel it would betray the nature of the movement. Make of that what you will.

I also oppose Citizen's United with a firey passion.

All that said I'm not an active part of the movement and the movement is still clearly in development it'd be foolish to say I truly know what the movement is all about.

299 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:55:37pm

re: #293 erik_t

Well, you know, Bush Jr. chose not to superhate on immigrants so that he could get a bunch of immigrants into the country to destroy the country so that the libruls wouldn't be able to get people to support immigrants anymore so that immigrants would stop coming into the country. Also, too.

Gotta love conspiracy theories huh. The ones about Obama are so hilarious. The secret Muslim, Marxist, etc shit.

300 Iwouldprefernotto  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:55:58pm

re: #153 justaminute

I think OWS is just getting started. Giving birth to something is always messy and painful. I remember (just barely) the Viet Nam War protests, Civil Rights protests and they went on for years. But I remember the complaints against it and they seem to be similar.

Neither political party seems to offer us a clear vision to move the country forward. As long as we have this great gap in income, no jobs prospects, declining wages and mounting college costs and debt, gridlock in Washington, OWS will be with us.

Conservatives want to move the country backward.

301 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:56:47pm

Has anyone noticed a slowdown of typing speed here? There's a delay from when I hit a key until it pops up on the screen at LGF on my laptop that I don't have at other sites.

302 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:56:55pm

re: #300 Iwouldprefernotto

Conservatives want to move the country backward.

bring back DADT!

303 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:57:24pm

re: #301 Fat Bastard Vegetarian


Nope. Laser fast for me.

304 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:57:26pm

re: #301 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Has anyone noticed a slowdown of typing speed here? There's a delay from when I hit a key until it pops up on the screen at LGF on my laptop that I don't have at other sites.

I've had this problem for a while now.

305 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:57:44pm

re: #300 Iwouldprefernotto

Conservatives want to move the country backward.

Doesn't that change their label from "conservative" to "reactionary" by default?

307 Simply Sarah  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:57:54pm

re: #301 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Has anyone noticed a slowdown of typing speed here? There's a delay from when I hit a key until it pops up on the screen at LGF on my laptop that I don't have at other sites.

Yes, actually. Since a few weeks ago. I've switched to typing things out in a text editor and pasting it in after. I probably just need to use a non-crappy browser.

308 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:58:32pm

re: #166 Obdicut

Sure. I can speak for myself too, and I'm saying that your interpretation of what he said is clearly wrong. If you don't want to listen, that's fine.

Just because I don't agree with what you said doesn't mean I'm not listening.

309 darthstar  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:58:49pm

Ha!
Image: Boehner.jpg

310 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:59:40pm

[Link: 2012.talkingpointsmemo.com...]
OT but I really get tired of this crap from Republicans regarding Obama. Criticize his ideas but acting like he never had to work for anything in his life is a load of shit and Mr. I can't even name the three departments I want to cut knows it. And the Republican base morons love shit like that.

311 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:59:47pm

re: #308 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Just because I don't agree with what you said doesn't mean I'm not listening.

That's nice.

312 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:59:59pm

re: #303 Obdicut

Nope. Laser fast for me.

What browser?

313 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:00:23pm

re: #289 Beltboy

I'm sorry I said "run" guns into Mexico.
The proper term is "walk" guns into Mexico.

My bad. LOL!

Too bad for Obama-- a Border Patrol Agent was killed over Fast & Furious.
And to bring up Wide Receiver smacks of desperation.

Desperation on your part, trying to respond with some intelligence.

Brian Terry was not "killed over Fast and Furious", he was killed with one of the guns that went through the program.

You're a moron.

314 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:00:56pm

re: #312 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

What browser?

Chrome on Win 7 Pro 32bit.

315 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:01:12pm

re: #311 Obdicut

[shrug]

316 iossarian  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:01:35pm

re: #302 HappyWarrior

bring back DADT!

End popular election of senators!

Allow businesses to discriminate against customers!

317 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:02:03pm

Can't tell what OWS is on about? here is an examples, as concrete as one could want.

This injustice ends now. The call for major reform and prosecutions begins in earnest.

FHFA Filings in PLS Cases, September 2, 2011 (fhfa.gov)
Government Regulator Sues Wall Street Banks For Fraud In Subprime Mortgage Deals (huffingtonpost.com)
FACT SHEET
The major banks are also responsible for putting a chokehold on lending, which keeps Americans out of work:
BofA has the worst record of all the big banks in making Small Business Administration loans.
Chase's SBA lending dropped 75% in the two years after the economy crashed
Major banks have avoided paying their fair share of taxes via offshore tax shelters and other manipulations.
BofA paid $0 in income tax in 2009 and 2010.
Chase has over 50 tax sheltered overseas subsidiaries to get out of paying federal taxes
Wells Fargo paid $0 in federal taxes in 2009
The finance industry has been stealing our democracy by their massive lobbying efforts to block reforms.
Lobbying spend by BofA alone has more than doubled since 2006.
Total spend of finance, insurance and real estate sector of our economy on lobbying is currently over $115 million per quarter — and rising.

318 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:02:14pm

re: #313 wrenchwench

Mexican gangsters are totally unable to acquire guns unless handed to them by Eric Holder with kiss.

That's why nobody ever got murdered in Mexico before Fast and Furious. And if we banned all gun sales there'd be no murder at all.

319 jaunte  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:03:02pm

Maybe giving up on "Prohibition, the Sequel" would eliminate some of the power of the Mexican cartels.

320 jamesfirecat  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:03:11pm

re: #316 iossarian

End popular election of senators!

Allow businesses to discriminate against customers!

///Child Labor Laws weaken our economy and give youngsters free time which they'll use to fall into depraved habits!

321 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:05:18pm

re: #319 jaunte

Maybe giving up on "Prohibition, the Sequel" would eliminate some of the power of the Mexican cartels.

Exactly. I think Big Pharma is more responsible that Arizona gun shops. That's why this article made me so mad.

322 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:05:30pm

re: #317 Rightwingconspirator

They have the best accountants!
/

323 Lidane  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:05:40pm

re: #317 Rightwingconspirator

Can't tell what OWS is on about? here is an examples, as concrete as one could want.

This injustice ends now. The call for major reform and prosecutions begins in earnest.

Pfft. Everyone knows it's just a bunch of violent, drug addled hippie Marxist with anarchist flags.

///

324 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:06:02pm

re: #320 jamesfirecat

///Child Labor Laws weaken our economy and give youngsters free time which they'll use to fall into depraved habits!

Pretty sure that facebook does actually fall into the category of depraved habit.

More Homework!

(You'll notice that the people who call for more homework are never the ones who still do homework.)

325 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:06:54pm

re: #314 Obdicut

I just "Chromed" up, and it is working faster.

Thanks.

326 Kragar  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:06:59pm

re: #320 jamesfirecat

///Child Labor Laws weaken our economy and give youngsters free time which they'll use to fall into depraved habits!

The FDA is a con by the Pharmaceutical industry to put mom and pop home remedies out of business!

327 Kragar  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:07:30pm

re: #324 EmmmieG

Pretty sure that facebook does actually fall into the category of depraved habit.

More Homework!

(You'll notice that the people who call for more homework are never the ones who still do homework.)

Or want to help their kids with said homework.

328 allegro  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:07:46pm

A little history lesson for those who ask "what's the point of OWS?" and "why don't they just follow the rules, be neat and tidy, and give money to PACs and shit?"

The movement was less a unified army than a rich mix of political notions and visions. The tactics used were diverse: legal demonstrations, grassroots organizing, congressional lobbying, electoral challenges, civil disobedience, draft resistance, self-immolations, political violence. Some peace activists traveled to North Vietnam. Quakers and others provided medical aid to Vietnamese civilian victims of the war. Some G.I.s protested the war.
...
In 1965, a majority of Americans supported U.S. policies in Vietnam; by the fall of 1967, only 35 percent did so. For the first time, more people thought U.S. intervention in Vietnam had been a mistake than did not. Blacks and women were the most dovish social groups. Later research found that antiwar sentiment was inversely correlated with people's socioeconomic level. Many Americans also disliked antiwar protesters, and the movement was frequently denounced by media commentators, legislators, and other public figures.
...
Two long-standing problems continued to plague the antiwar movement. Many participants questioned its effectiveness, spawning dropouts, hindering the organization of protests and the maintenance of antiwar groups, and aggravating dissension over strategies and tactics. And infighting continued to sap energy, alienate activists, and hamper antiwar planning. The strife was fanned by the U.S. government, but it was largely internally generated.
...
Despite worsening internal divisions and a flagging movement, 500,000 people demonstrated against the war in Washington in April 1971. Vietnam Veterans Against the War also staged protests, and other demonstrators engaged in mass civil disobedience, prompting 12,000 arrests.
...
The American movement against the Vietnam War was the most successful antiwar movement in U.S. history. During the Johnson administration, it played a significant role in constraining the war and was a major factor in the administration's policy reversal in 1968. During the Nixon years, it hastened U.S. troop withdrawals, continued to restrain the war, fed the deterioration in U.S. troop morale and discipline (which provided additional impetus to U.S. troop withdrawals), and promoted congressional legislation that severed U.S. funds for the war.

329 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:07:57pm

re: #317 Rightwingconspirator

I am sitting here musing on the fact that people in LA have their stuff together more than people in NY.

330 Beltboy  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:08:14pm

re: #313 wrenchwench

Ummm. That sounds a lot like "Six in one hand, half a dozen in the other".

You really should proofread what you write. Especially if you're going to call somebody else a "moron". Unless of course, you were referring to yourself.

331 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:08:44pm

re: #325 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I like Chrome. What did you switch from?

332 Charles Johnson  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:08:50pm

re: #220 Killgore Trout

I'm trying to be more diplomatic and keep my LGF account. Repeatedly making the same statement is just going to inflame the outrageously outraged and cause problems. My statement was harsh and pissed a lot of people off. I wasn't expecting so much support for what I see as violent and radical protests. My views haven't changed but repeating the same statement is going to get me banned.

Dude, you're in no danger of losing your account. But I also have to say that I think you've gone overboard with some of your anti-OWS comments, and I say that as someone who's on record as being pretty ambivalent toward the whole thing. And I think you've been overly credulous about some of the right wing propaganda (which is just fucking relentless), when you should have been skeptical about that too.

But when you say people are in favor of raping and stabbing, and stuff like that, you shouldn't be surprised when they get upset. Overall, I think the opinions people have expressed here about OWS are pretty thoughtful and a long way from being gullible and easily misled.

333 Lidane  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:09:02pm

The comments on this blog are amazing. The OWS derangement is so bad for some folks that they're blaming the reporter and camera man:

[Link: dailycaller.com...]

334 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:10:16pm

re: #333 Lidane

The comments on this blog are amazing. The OWS derangement is so bad for some folks that they're blaming the reporter and camera man:

[Link: dailycaller.com...]

That's what happens when you live your life ragegasm to ragegasm looking for something to bitch at.

335 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:10:29pm

re: #330 Beltboy

Ummm. That sounds a lot like "Six in one hand, half a dozen in the other".

You really should proofread what you write. Especially if you're going to call somebody else a "moron". Unless of course, you were referring to yourself.

I preview every fucking comment, you moron. Your reading comprehension is lacking, to say the least. You said Terry was killed "over Fast and Furious". Can you back that up with any facts?

336 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:10:36pm

re: #331 Obdicut

I like Chrome. What did you switch from?

Firefox. Which works fine on everything but LGF.

Weird.

337 leftynyc  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:12:02pm

I'm sorry I don't know how to embed videos but I'd love to hear someone try and call this man a trust fund hippy.

Youtube Video
338 Targetpractice  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:12:12pm

re: #336 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Firefox. Which works fine on everything but LGF.

Weird.

Yeah, I found myself with the same problem. Chrome works much better with LGF, though I do notice that it starts to chug a bit when we get to around 5-600 posts in.

339 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:12:12pm

re: #336 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Firefox. Which works fine on everything but LGF.

Weird.

I have FF and as I said, I've had the same problems. I've never used Chrome before. Hate having to transition browsers tho.

340 Lidane  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:13:06pm

re: #337 leftynyc

I'm sorry I don't know how to embed videos but I'd love to hear someone try and call this man a trust fund hippy.

[Video]

He wouldn't be at a protest if he wasn't a trust fund hippie!

341 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:13:16pm

re: #336 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Firefox. Which works fine on everything but LGF.

Weird.

Firefox has become more and more unstable for me, and I have that typing slowdown that you describe on a couple of other websites with it.

I'm hoping they get their shit together again, because I did like their plugin system more than Chrome, but for general purpose, Chrome I've found to be far superior.

342 Beltboy  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:13:47pm

re: #335 wrenchwench

Evidence?? I'll let Eric Holder squirm over that for now!
As for you, You drop too many F-Bombs.
Which means you are either not smart or just immature.

I owe you nothing.

343 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:15:26pm

re: #328 allegro

A little history lesson for those who ask "what's the point of OWS?" and "why don't they just follow the rules, be neat and tidy, and give money to PACs and shit?"

Mr. w was in the VVAW, and helped organize that DC demonstration in 1971. He said one of the turning points in the movement was "Another Mother for Peace", which started in England. So much for saying old ladies don't belong.

344 Simply Sarah  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:15:26pm

re: #341 Obdicut

Firefox has become more and more unstable for me, and I have that typing slowdown that you describe on a couple of other websites with it.

I'm hoping they get their shit together again, because I did like their plugin system more than Chrome, but for general purpose, Chrome I've found to be far superior.

No, no. Clearly the answer is that Google is paying off Charles to 'break' stuff so that it only works right with Chrome. Where do you think he got the money for all the fancy redecorating he's been doing for the site?
//

345 jamesfirecat  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:15:49pm

re: #342 Beltboy

Evidence?? I'll let Eric Holder squirm over that for now!
As for you, You drop too many F-Bombs.
Which means you are either not smart or just immature.

I owe you nothing.

So your stance is that your foe should have to provide evidence that he isn't guilty without you providing any that he is?

I don't think you understand how the US justice system works.

346 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:16:01pm

re: #337 leftynyc

I'm sorry I don't know how to embed videos but I'd love to hear someone try and call this man a trust fund hippy.

[Video]

He lives off the government's dime.///

347 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:16:04pm

re: #244 HAL2010

I'm looking, I really am, but I do not see a set of demands. There was one guy with suggestions about the banks, but the image is to small to read.

It's just a thumbnail. Click on it.

Examples of that are abound.

As well as "hydrofracking, medicare for all, and health care, as well as outsourcing of jobs" on one of the pictures.

Just what has that got to do with Wall Street and not a generally progressive or democratic agenda?

I guess you could say that Wall Street has been driving a radically anti-progressive agenda.

348 albusteve  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:16:19pm

re: #342 Beltboy

Evidence?? I'll let Eric Holder squirm over that for now!
As for you, You drop too many F-Bombs.
Which means you are either not smart or just immature.

I owe you nothing.

what's 'fuck' got to do with smart or mature?...
you just arise from a 100 year snooze?

349 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:16:35pm

re: #342 Beltboy

Evidence?? I'll let Eric Holder squirm over that for now!
As for you, You drop too many F-Bombs.
Which means you are either not smart or just immature.

I owe you nothing.

You got nuthin'.

350 Targetpractice  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:17:07pm

re: #345 jamesfirecat

So your stance is that your foe should have to provide evidence that he isn't guilty without you providing any that he is?

I don't think you understand how the US justice system works.

"Guilty until proven innocent"? Yeah, I'd say that's the exact opposite of what our justice system operates under.

351 Varek Raith  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:17:44pm

re: #342 Beltboy

What are your thoughts on Operation Wide Receiver?

352 Kragar  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:17:51pm

re: #348 albusteve

what's 'fuck' got to do with smart or mature?...
you just arise from a 100 year snooze?

He's a moron.

353 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:17:52pm

re: #245 Gus 802

Hard to believe that it's 2011 and we're still hearing some of the same rhetoric we used to hear in the early 70s. It's like watching an episode of "All in the Family" sometimes.

You ain't seen nothing yet. With the problems getting worse, prepare for a new Red Scare.

354 albusteve  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:18:34pm

re: #350 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

"Guilty until proven innocent"? Yeah, I'd say that's the exact opposite of what our justice system operates under.

good thing LGF is a blog and not a court

355 Beltboy  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:18:43pm

re: #350 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

It's called an "investigation".
Look for the book that says D-I-C-T-I-O-N-A-R-Y. And look it up.
I'm assuming you have one. And I'm assuming you know how to use it.

356 Targetpractice  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:19:09pm

re: #353 000G

You ain't seen nothing yet. With the problems getting worse, prepare for a new Red Scare.

Are you now, or have your ever been, a member of the Communist Party?

/

357 darthstar  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:19:16pm

Man High on Meth Eats Bobcat

Who the hell eats when they're high on meth?

358 albusteve  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:19:33pm

re: #352 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

He's a moron.

fucking moron fucker, messing with my fucking buddy...fuck that

359 Kragar  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:20:22pm

re: #358 albusteve

fucking moron fucker, messing with my fucking buddy...fuck that

Fucking fuck the fucking fucker.

360 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:21:36pm

re: #353 000G

You ain't seen nothing yet. With the problems getting worse, prepare for a new Red Scare.

I think that was attempted, substituting Muslims for reds. Failed.

361 Targetpractice  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:21:57pm

re: #355 Beltboy

It's called an "investigation".
Look for the book that says D-I-C-T-I-O-N-A-R-Y. And look it up.
I'm assuming you have one. And I'm assuming you know how to use it.

Anyone ever tell you that when you make an assumption, you make a fool out of you and umption?

362 Lidane  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:22:37pm

re: #353 000G

You ain't seen nothing yet. With the problems getting worse, prepare for a new Red Scare.

Pfft. We've been in a new Red Scare since 2001. It's just been Muslims and brown people so far.

At least OWS is familiar territory for the wingnuts. They can flog the hippie meme loudly and repeatedly without having to be careful about things like religion and race.

363 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:22:53pm

re: #360 wrenchwench

I think that was attempted, substituting Muslims for reds. Failed.

Not for lack of effort though with the wingnuts convinced Shariah is coming.

364 Targetpractice  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:23:02pm

re: #359 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Fucking fuck the fucking fucker.

Hey, you watch your fucking language!

365 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:23:11pm

re: #245 Gus 802

Hard to believe that it's 2011 and we're still hearing some of the same rhetoric we used to hear in the early 70s. It's like watching an episode of "All in the Family" sometimes.

shitty economy, bullshit rhetoric, and retro 70's rock bands making a comeback :D

all we need are gas lines!

366 Kragar  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:23:23pm

Files from Jerry Sandusky's charity are missing, officials say

Prosecutors allege that Sandusky, a former assistant football coach at Penn State who was charged on Nov. 5 with 40 counts of sexual abuse of children, used the Second Mile to find his victims. They now worry that their investigation could be compromised by the loss of the files, the newspaper said.

According to unnamed Times' sources, investigators served subpoenas on the Second Mile to learn the names of every child who dealt with the foundation. Members of the charity's board of directors learned recently that records from 2000 to 2003 were missing.

367 Kragar  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:23:36pm

re: #364 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Hey, you watch your fucking language!

Shit.

368 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:24:18pm

re: #247 albusteve

OWS in a nutshell...
[Link: www.weeklystandard.com...]

Heh. I bet dollars to doughnuts that if it wasn't GE, a corporation with ties to Democrats (via Obama, MSNBC, et al,), William Kristol's neocon outlet Weekly Standard wouldn't have made any noise.

Fox News' Bill Kristol Encourages Occupy Wall Street Protestors To Defeat Democrats In Primaries

Bill Kristol Continues Fox's Attacks On OWS: "The Whole Term 'Occupy' Is A Kind Of Marxist Term For Taking Over" Property

369 Targetpractice  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:24:26pm

re: #366 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Files from Jerry Sandusky's charity are missing, officials say

How convenient. *rolls eyes*

370 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:24:26pm

re: #366 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Files from Jerry Sandusky's charity are missing, officials say

Gee, I wonder if letting him out on bail might have allowed him to destroy evidence?

371 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:24:26pm

re: #365 WindUpBird

shitty economy, bullshit rhetoric, and retro 70's rock bands making a comeback :D

all we need are gas lines!

Another Steelers dynasty would be nice too. )

372 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:24:53pm

re: #342 Beltboy

Evidence?? I'll let Eric Holder squirm over that for now!
As for you, You drop too many F-Bombs.
Which means you are either not smart or just immature.

I owe you nothing.

hahaha
hahaha

YOU SHALL RECEIVE NAUGHT BUT MY MERRY JAPES, RAPSCALLION

HAVE AT THEE ON THE INFORMATIONAL TECHNOHIGHWAYWEBS! PUT UP THY CYBER-DUKES! EN GARDE!

373 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:25:24pm

re: #368 000G

Heh. I bet dollars to doughnuts that if it wasn't GE, a corporation with ties to Democrats (via Obama, MSNBC, et al,), William Kristol's neocon outlet Weekly Standard wouldn't have made any noise.

Fox News' Bill Kristol Encourages Occupy Wall Street Protestors To Defeat Democrats In Primaries

Bill Kristol Continues Fox's Attacks On OWS: "The Whole Term 'Occupy' Is A Kind Of Marxist Term For Taking Over" Property

Bill's daddy was a bonafide Trotskyist. I have to laugh at him here using the Marxist fear card.

374 engineer cat  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:25:34pm

re: #359 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Fucking fuck the fucking fucker.

Fucking Shit Is Fucked Up And Shit

(one (1) all purpose comment - please apply to all discussion threads thank you)

375 allegro  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:25:34pm

re: #343 wrenchwench

Mr. w was in the VVAW, and helped organize that DC demonstration in 1971. He said one of the turning points in the movement was "Another Mother for Peace", which started in England. So much for saying old ladies don't belong.

I remember that. Protesting for social/governmental change is a real messy business requiring the coming together of vastly disparate sub-groups into something that kinda resembles a cohesive whole at some point. To me, increased awareness is the goal and the solution in one. As long as most of the population is complacent, the plutocracy is going to continue to rob, grow more powerful, co-opt even more of the government to serve them, and the country's general population will continue on its current decline.

This movement is the beginning of forcing the issue into the daylight and it's working.

376 erik_t  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:25:46pm

re: #368 000G

Bill Kristol Continues Fox's Attacks On OWS: "The Whole Term 'Occupy' Is A Kind Of Marxist Term For Taking Over" Property

Bill Kristol is a little too premarxistized with hating hippies to give much thought to his statements or positions.

378 darthstar  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:26:14pm

re: #342 Beltboy

You drop too many F-Bombs.

I hate the "f-bomb" crap...what...are you reading these posts aloud to your child? Jesus fucking Christ, it's just a word.

379 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:26:47pm

re: #249 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Bachmann: Obama Wants More ‘Violence’ So He Can Regulate Guns

Sounds like Obama wants a Kent State moment!

You know what these faux indictments over wanting a violent event to occur for political gain reminds me of?

This phony outrage: [Link: biggovernment.com...]

380 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:27:06pm

re: #378 darthstar

My wife just got done with a section of med school referred to as "FNA". Made me laugh every time she said it.

381 erik_t  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:27:07pm

re: #377 Lidane

No law against shrewd real estate moves to protect yourself against civil suits. There's definitely a law against destroying evidence.

382 lawhawk  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:27:23pm

re: #370 Obdicut

Not sure if that was the case, but there's a new judge handling the case now - so we might see bail substantially increased or revoked altogether.

383 albusteve  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:27:40pm

re: #378 darthstar

I hate the "f-bomb" crap...what...are you reading these posts aloud to your child? Jesus fucking Christ, it's just a word.

time to roll out this fucking old thing...
The One Magical Word

Youtube Video
384 Kragar  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:28:07pm

re: #378 darthstar

I hate the "f-bomb" crap...what...are you reading these posts aloud to your child? Jesus fucking Christ, it's just a word.

We all need to sit back and think what we need to do to have a logical discussion with an idiot.

Step 1) Drop the F from the word way.

385 darthstar  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:28:16pm

re: #377 Lidane

Paterno Passes on Home to His Wife for $1

Someone's going to be dirt poor before the first lawsuit can be filed. On the one hand, it is a smart legal move. On the other, it says you don't give a shit about the victims, and they can stay away from your fucking money.

Don't worry, Joe...five years after you pass, you'll still be hailed as a saint.

386 lawhawk  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:28:25pm

re: #381 erik_t

And in Paterno's case, he's already stated that it was for estate tax planning purposes, which makes sense too.

387 Varek Raith  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:28:33pm

re: #378 darthstar

I hate the "f-bomb" crap...what...are you reading these posts aloud to your child? Jesus fucking Christ, it's just a word.

"What's the big deal? It doesn't hurt anybody! Fuck Fuckity Fuckfuckfuck!"
-Eric Cartman.

388 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:28:42pm

Remember, people!:

'Obama Is Behind the Occupy Wall Street Riots!'

Kind of wondering when Rush is going to claim that Obama wants a Kent State moment. Maybe he has already…

389 Lidane  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:28:54pm

re: #381 erik_t

No law against shrewd real estate moves to protect yourself against civil suits. There's definitely a law against destroying evidence.

He made the move in July. The Sandusky stuff wasn't until what, October?

Makes me wonder exactly what JoePa knew and when he knew it.

390 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:29:08pm

re: #342 Beltboy

Evidence?? I'll let Eric Holder squirm over that for now!
As for you, You drop too many F-Bombs.
Which means you are either not smart or just immature.

I owe you nothing.

OUR CROSSED RAPIERS SIGNIFY AN INTERSECTION OF ARGUMENTATION, HAPLESS FOE! YOU WILL CRUMPLE BEFORE THE TORRENT OF BLOWS FROM MY SHARPENED TCP/IP PACKETS!

391 Targetpractice  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:29:36pm

re: #377 Lidane

Paterno Passes on Home to His Wife for $1

According to documents filed with the county, the house’s fair-market value was listed at $594,484.40. Wick Sollers, a lawyer for Paterno, said in an e-mail that the Paternos had been engaged in a “multiyear estate planning program,” and the transfer “was simply one element of that plan.” He said it had nothing to do with the scandal.

Yeah, how convenient that such a "sale" means that it won't count as an asset of his when the inevitable civil suits appears on his doorstep.

392 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:30:17pm

re: #382 lawhawk

Not sure if that was the case, but there's a new judge handling the case now - so we might see bail substantially increased or revoked altogether.

Yeah, Sandusky could have destroyed them before, or someone else might have, or it could be a coincidence.

Either way, I hope the new judge revokes bail and puts him in solitary for his protection.

393 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:30:51pm

re: #392 Obdicut

Yeah, Sandusky could have destroyed them before, or someone else might have, or it could be a coincidence.

Either way, I hope the new judge revokes bail and puts him in solitary for his protection.

Yeah keep him away from gen population.

394 lawhawk  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:31:00pm

re: #385 darthstar

Paterno will likely be named in civil suits, but the deep pockets here is Penn State itself - they'll get slammed every which way in this case.

Settlement is likely their best and only recourse here, but those settlements wont help Paterno, who will have to find a way to deal with the fact that he's getting a nice pension along the way ($500k +) out of his retirement. And don't think that the lawyers for the victims aren't looking into how they could go after that too.

395 Sionainn  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:31:47pm

re: #385 darthstar

Someone's going to be dirt poor before the first lawsuit can be filed. On the one hand, it is a smart legal move. On the other, it says you don't give a shit about the victims, and they can stay away from your fucking money.

Don't worry, Joe...five years after you pass, you'll still be hailed as a saint.

Don't courts frown on that kind of CYA maneuver?

396 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:32:23pm

I had a guy as dumb as Beltboy in the shop here an hour ago. He kept saying stupid stuff, and included the phrase "trust me". I verbally escorted him out.

That's probably why Beltboy caught my wrath (besides the fact that he's a repeat offender of my sensibilities.)

Sorry little Beltboy.

I have to go back to work now, but I shall spar with you again when I have time.

fucker

397 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:32:47pm

re: #175 HAL2010

I can't disagree with them, because they have no solutions or demands. They say so themselves.

Again, I have clearly not read enough, but what I have read does not bode well.

Their solution is for the rich bastards to "cut it the fuck out", and their demand is for the rich bastards to "cut it the fuck out". And I also don't really think they give a damn about your boding.

The ultra rich are buying policies (and politicians to that end) that help them and hurt most everyone else, CUT IT THE FUCK OUT.

They are setting up loopholes that they can keep their cash flowing while everyone else gets the shaft with higher prices (and if you think their rich friends charge them retail you are out of your mind), CUT IT THE FUCK OUT.

Need more?

398 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:33:03pm

re: #396 wrenchwench

"trust me!"

what did he want you to trust him on?

399 Varek Raith  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:33:38pm

re: #398 WindUpBird

"trust me!"

what did he want you to trust him on?

The number of lights.

400 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:33:47pm

re: #389 Lidane

He made the move in July. The Sandusky stuff wasn't until what, October?

Makes me wonder exactly what JoePa knew and when he knew it.

Sandusky blew
Paterno knew
Nittany 182

401 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:34:19pm

re: #380 Obdicut

My wife just got done with a section of med school referred to as "FNA". Made me laugh every time she said it.

Friend of mine had "KIN-A" on his license plate for a while.

I think they took it back.

402 lawhawk  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:35:38pm

re: #391 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Timing - the sale/transfer occurred 4 months before the charges were levied against Sandusky.

Your best argument is that Paterno knew about the pending release of the grand jury (which had been investigating for the past couple of years) but only acted about 6 months ago to prepare the transfer. That's why he initiated the transfer/sale. After all, Paterno knew/had reason to know about Sandusky and did nothing for years before and didn't make any estate changes from 2002 after.

However, he still could have legitimately done the transaction and not known about the pending release and this was coincidental.

Though, because so many people are known to each other in this case (lawyers, judges, prosecutors, the principals, familial relations, etc.) there's a whole lot more going on here than meets the eye.

403 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:37:22pm

re: #301 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Has anyone noticed a slowdown of typing speed here? There's a delay from when I hit a key until it pops up on the screen at LGF on my laptop that I don't have at other sites.

Happens to me when my RAM is being hammered.

404 erik_t  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:38:19pm

re: #402 lawhawk

There are ultimately far more damning and concrete statements and arguments that can be made about Paterno. This one is messy enough that I think it could only serve as a distraction.

405 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:38:32pm

re: #394 lawhawk

Every time I see these types of stories (all too often, frankly) I remind my children why I taught them growing up never to put too much faith in any one person.

I know adults that are just crushed over this situation.

Human beings are "highlight-reel-let-down-machines".

406 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:38:42pm

re: #398 WindUpBird

"trust me!"

what did he want you to trust him on?

That he knew what he was doing, teaching kids to ride bikes in traffic, while claiming to never have them in traffic, and without any training on how to ride in traffic himself, and without any training or experience in working with kids, other than leading them on Critical Mass-type rides.

407 engineer cat  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:39:18pm

Bill Kristol Continues Fox's Attacks On OWS: "The Whole Term 'Occupy' Is A Kind Of Marxist Term For Taking Over" Property

A Few Hundred Hippies, College Students, And Other Assorted Protestors Completely Scare The Shit Out Of The Entire Right Wing And Fixate Their Attention On Trying To Dump Shit On Them

mission accomplished

408 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:39:22pm

re: #403 000G

Happens to me when my RAM is being hammered.

Shouldn't that be "battered"?

409 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:40:33pm

re: #317 Rightwingconspirator

Can't tell what OWS is on about? here is an examples, as concrete as one could want.

This injustice ends now. The call for major reform and prosecutions begins in earnest.

FHFA Filings in PLS Cases, September 2, 2011 (fhfa.gov)
Government Regulator Sues Wall Street Banks For Fraud In Subprime Mortgage Deals (huffingtonpost.com)
FACT SHEET
The major banks are also responsible for putting a chokehold on lending, which keeps Americans out of work:
BofA has the worst record of all the big banks in making Small Business Administration loans.
Chase's SBA lending dropped 75% in the two years after the economy crashed
Major banks have avoided paying their fair share of taxes via offshore tax shelters and other manipulations.
BofA paid $0 in income tax in 2009 and 2010.
Chase has over 50 tax sheltered overseas subsidiaries to get out of paying federal taxes
Wells Fargo paid $0 in federal taxes in 2009
The finance industry has been stealing our democracy by their massive lobbying efforts to block reforms.
Lobbying spend by BofA alone has more than doubled since 2006.
Total spend of finance, insurance and real estate sector of our economy on lobbying is currently over $115 million per quarter — and rising.

That's the good stuff right there.

410 lawhawk  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:42:59pm

re: #404 erik_t

Actually, this isn't so much of an issue at this phase of the investigation and likely trial of Sandusky, but would have a greater effect in the civil suits and actions to recover compensation. That's looking well into the future. But the judge in the criminal case can issue orders to prohibit further transactions and/or maintain records to prevent destruction of evidence or money transfers to limit liability going forward.

411 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:44:31pm

re: #329 EmmmieG

I am sitting here musing on the fact that people in LA have their stuff together more than people in NY.

Did you see my #209?

412 erik_t  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:46:26pm

re: #410 lawhawk

How broad is the criminal case's judge's power? In apparent fact, Paterno is not currently a target of any criminal investigation.

413 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:47:45pm

re: #356 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Are you now, or have your ever been, a member of the Communist Party an Occupier of Wall Street?

/

dun dun dun !!!!

414 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:49:34pm

re: #360 wrenchwench

I think that was attempted, substituting Muslims for reds. Failed.

I think the only reason why there hasn't been a Red Scare yet is that there is no Soviet Union anymore.

I am sure a lot of reactionaries miss their old enemy these days.

415 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:51:01pm

re: #362 Lidane

Pfft. We've been in a new Red Scare since 2001. It's just been Muslims and brown people so far.

Enh. No. Anti-communism is a distinct set of beliefs. It's not really a completely generic form of bigotry and/or synonymous with anti-Islam or plain xenophobic sentiment.

416 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 1:53:19pm

re: #373 HappyWarrior

Bill's daddy was a bonafide Trotskyist. I have to laugh at him here using the Marxist fear card.

Equally laughable are NWO conspiracy nutjobs who use that connection to prove that neoconservatism is an offspring of trotskyism.

417 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 2:05:57pm

re: #323 Lidane

Who are making it a very good day to be a news chopper pilot or crew. Overtime baby! Union rules LOL,

418 Tigger2  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 2:29:08pm

re: #35 Killgore Trout

I like to see the good guys win. Seeing G20 rioters or violent EDL thugs get a face full of mace doesn't bother me. Same with violent OWS crowds. The old lady in Seattle was not satisfying to see. She shouldn't have been there. The Black Block anarchists attacking police are a different matter.
I fully support the right to march and protest. That right dose not include attacking police. When people cross that line they are responsible for their own fate.

God you sound like a 1%er, I think the Police are acting more like paid thugs then they are police.

419 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 2:34:40pm

re: #317 Rightwingconspirator

Here is some more concrete stuff from a couple of weeks ago:

Occupy Wall Street: It’s Not a Hippie Thing
Don’t be fooled by the drum circles. Today’s protests have more in common with the anti-Hoover 1930s than the antiwar ’60s and ’70s

In its very amateurism, Occupy Wall Street represents something new. Although it’s attracted some celebrities and well-heeled supporters, participants come chiefly from outside Wall Street. Many are unemployed or poorly employed. These are not bankers or reform-minded professors; these are also-rans in the capitalist race, upset with the system itself. Their chief weapon is neither eloquence nor argument, but their physical presence.

As critics have noted, the protesters are not in complete agreement with each other, but the overall message is reasonably coherent. They want more and better jobs, more equal distribution of income, less profit (or no profit) for banks, lower compensation for bankers, and more strictures on banks with regard to negotiating consumer services such as mortgages and debit cards. They also want to reduce the influence that corporations—financial firms in particular—wield in politics, and they want a more populist set of government priorities: bailouts for student debtors and mortgage holders, not just for banks.

Roger Lowenstein, Bloomberg Businessweek (lol)
[Link: www.businessweek.com...]

420 makeitstop  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 2:39:55pm

Smells like self-anointed martyr in here.
/

421 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 2:46:37pm

re: #333 Lidane

The comments on this blog are amazing. The OWS derangement is so bad for some folks that they're blaming the reporter and camera man:

[Link: dailycaller.com...]

That one is hilarious:

Comments here are unbelievable. The story, as reported, is that the police beat a reporter and cameraperson with a baton, for no reason, and that OWS protestors helped the reporter. This doesn't fit the narrative that Daily Caller readers want to hear. Therefore, they make things up, such as suggesting, without a doubt, that it was the reporters fault! Everyone is assuming that the reporter's story is wrong.

Look, OWS are not all unemployed hippies. They are actually out there protesting everything the Tea Partier's wanted. The vast majority of them don't want anything for free, they just want everyone to have to abide by the same rules and laws. They are not against you. They are you and you're neighbors even if you don't know it yet.

422 MittDoesNotCompute  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 3:04:59pm

re: #148 Killgore Trout

Good God, man, do you not realize how off-the-rails and deranged that post sounds? You cannot seriously believe shit like, "They want an iconic image of police brutality are are perfectly willing to manufacture or incite it" or "The protesters want a Kent State moment just as much, if not more, than anyone else," because if you do, you're as batshit insane as the most virulent Lizards of the Damned.

Seriously, what the hell, KT?

423 palomino  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 3:07:07pm

re: #58 Killgore Trout

Sorry but there are people here who obsessively characterize my statements. I'm a little bit sensitive about it although I usually try to skim past.

Only because you make the same exact complaints obsessively. You used to talk about more than one thing. Now monomania has set in.

424 prairiefire  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 5:08:53pm

re: #396 wrenchwench

You were ON it.


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