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Big Journalism’s Dana Loesch Does Not Apologize for Publishing Nazi Cartoon

Instead, she attacks, deflects, distorts, and denies
Wingnuts • Views: 27,686

As we noted yesterday, Media Matters pointed out that a Nazi-era antisemitic cartoon had been used as an illustration at Andrew Breitbart’s “Big Journalism” website on at least three occasions in the past year: Andrew Breitbart’s ‘Big Journalism’ Bloggers Use Antisemitic Nazi-Era Cartoon.

It’s fascinating to see how controversies like this are handled in the right wing blogs these days. Instead of saying she’s sorry for publishing such a thing (more than once!), the response from Big Journalism editor Dana Loesch is to immediately go on the attack against the people who pointed it out — and refuse to issue even the slightest hint of an apology: Media Matters, Desperate to Deflect From Charges of Antisemitism, Trumps up Attack on Big Journalism - Big Journalism.

On Dec. 15, 2011, t 10:02 p.m. EST, Media Matters for America’s Kevin Zieber posted a blog criticizing the use of a graphic in a post at Big Journalism that, Zieber argued, was reminiscent of a cartoon that appeared in antisemitic propaganda in the 1930s.

Wow. “Zieber argued” that the graphic was “reminiscent” of a Nazi-era cartoon? Let’s see if this is an accurate way to describe the situation; here are the two images side by side, with Big Journalism’s slightly modified version on the left and the Nazi version on the right:

That’s pretty “reminiscent,” all right. “Reminiscent” as in “identical,” except for slightly straightening the nose and replacing the Star of David with the words “Media Bias.”

There’s no apology coming from Loesch or from publisher Andrew Breitbart, though. Instead, Loesch claims they had already figured it out themselves before the Media Matters article appeared. There’s no way to check her claim, of course.

Approximately seven hours before that–well before we had received any complaints, but after Big Journalism post was published–Breitbart editor-in-chief Joel Pollak noticed the graphic, and alerted me that he suspected it was a recycled anti-Jewish cartoon. (He’s an Orthodox Jew with a degree in Jewish Studies, so he tends to pick up on these things.) He hadn’t seen the image before, but he had suspicions, and asked that we take the image down and stop using it in future. It had been used innocently, without knowledge of the provenance of the image. Nevertheless, it was replaced in the article almost immediately.

This is the state of right wing journalism; they repeatedly publish a Nazi-era antisemitic cartoon, then don’t even apologize to their readers for it. Instead they attack, deny, and distort the facts to try to distract attention away from their own failings.

They’re a lot like spoiled children, really. Spoiled children who “accidentally” re-publish Third Reich propaganda.

Also see:
Breitbart Should Probably Stop Posting Nazi-Era Anti-Semitic Cartoon to His Site

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187 comments

1 Kragar  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 1:27:58pm

Conservatism means never admitting to the fact you've fucked up.

2 Romantic Heretic  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 1:29:28pm

So, somehow, the editor-in-chief didn't see it before it went up, or didn't recognize it if it did? But later he realized, "This came from a WWII Nazi newspaper!" and they pulled it?

Somehow, I doubt that.

3 HAL2010  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 1:30:52pm
Instead they attack, deny, and distort the facts to try to distract attention away from their own failings.
They’re a lot like spoiled children, really.

Not many children would use Nazi cartoons though, however spoiled.

4 jaunte  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 1:33:03pm

Media Matters told them about it on March 14.

More recently, Big Journalism itself ran this questionable image invoking Nazi propaganda in a January 8 post about "media bias" following the Tucson shooting:
[Link: mediamatters.org...]

Cheapskates don't want to pay live cartoonists for their work.

5 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 1:34:00pm

Dana Loesch is a very serious twitterer lol

Real classy lady

6 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 1:34:03pm

The only rational thing to say here is: "Oh, holy shit, we didn't know where this was from. For fuck's sake! We're taking it down now. Thanks for letting us know."

This is true whether or not their Jewish staffer (LOOK! WE HAVE AN ORTHODOX JEW WORKING HERE!!) noticed it first, or whether they were going to do jack shit about it when he pointed it out.

Given what they would have said if a media outlet they didn't like was caught with this...well, heck. I can only laugh uproariously.

It's been modified very from the original, slightly, beyond the relabeling and the removal of the star, the nose has been redrawn. I wonder who did that, and how they ended up with it.

7 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 1:34:13pm

re: #3 HAL2010

Not many children would use Nazi cartoons though, however spoiled.

Eric Cartman.

8 jaunte  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 1:35:25pm

re: #6 SanFranciscoZionist

Whatever assistant photoshopped the Star of David out of the original sure knew where it was from.

9 Charles Johnson  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 1:36:20pm

re: #8 jaunte

Whatever assistant photoshopped the Star of David out of the original sure knew where it was from.

Whoever did it also took the "hook" out of the nose.

10 Ming  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 1:36:56pm

I hope that this appalling cartoon will finally cause some supporters of Israel to wake up and realize that the radical American right wing is not necessarily their friend. It's astonishing to me that this same right wing, which has no problem with fascism in Europe (as long as that fascism is anti-Muslim) doesn't cause more pro-Israel people (like me) to run away screaming. I'm afraid that some people in Israel who embrace America's right wing are making a terrible mistake. Israel has always prided itself on being self-reliant for its own security, yet many in Israel seem to feel that their security lies in today's Republican Party.

11 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 1:37:17pm

re: #6 SanFranciscoZionist

It's been modified very from the original, slightly, beyond the relabeling and the removal of the star, the nose has been redrawn. I wonder who did that, and how they ended up with it.

I mention the nose because it indicates to me that whoever did the work had some understanding of what they were looking at. Someone might claim "Oh, yeah, I took the Jewish star off because that didn't make sense, and labeled him "Media" so people would get it". But modifying the racial caricature strongly suggests someone who was able to 'read' the original cartoon.

12 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 1:37:42pm

re: #8 jaunte

Whatever assistant photoshopped the Star of David out of the original sure knew where it was from.

Are stock cartoons drawn by non-fascists really that expensive?

13 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 1:38:27pm

I'm back.

What happened?

14 jaunte  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 1:39:04pm

re: #12 SanFranciscoZionist

BigJournalism is just that cheap.

15 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 1:40:15pm

The nose looks more like a thumb in the revised version.

16 Ming  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 1:40:21pm

re: #6 SanFranciscoZionist

The only rational thing to say here is: "Oh, holy shit, we didn't know where this was from. For fuck's sake! We're taking it down now. Thanks for letting us know."

Very good point. All of us make mistakes. As I get older, I tend to make them more often. What kind of person would publish a cartoon like that, and when called on it, would do anything OTHER than apologize profusely?

17 HAL2010  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 1:40:57pm

re: #7 SanFranciscoZionist

For Big Journalism!

18 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 1:41:15pm

Do these morons realize that everybody has internet access and can look for these things?

Plagiarism is much harder than it used to be; and people still don't seem to grasp that little fact.

19 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 1:42:35pm

re: #10 Ming

I hope that this appalling cartoon will finally cause some supporters of Israel to wake up and realize that the radical American right wing is not necessarily their friend. It's astonishing to me that this same right wing, which has no problem with fascism in Europe (as long as that fascism is anti-Muslim) doesn't cause more pro-Israel people (like me) to run away screaming. I'm afraid that some people in Israel who embrace America's right wing are making a terrible mistake. Israel has always prided itself on being self-reliant for its own security, yet many in Israel seem to feel that their security lies in today's Republican Party.

As a supporter of Israel who thinks the radical American right wing is batshit crazy, and generally agrees with almost all of what you've written above, I'm still not sure what lesson I would draw from this bizarre episode. I'm genuinely puzzled about exactly what to deduce from this, except that, clearly, Big Goverment's paranoia is running in tracks that seem to be well-illustrated by Nazi cartoons, which really is not a sign of a healthy mind.

20 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 1:42:52pm

re: #18 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Do these morons realize that everybody has internet access and can look for these things?

Plagiarism is much harder than it used to be; and people still don't seem to grasp that little fact.

Even in high school, my son's papers are run thru a plagiarism checker.

21 jaunte  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 1:43:30pm

re: #16 Ming

That's the absurd thing about this. I think they used the cartoon because they're too cheap to buy their own originals, and they don't care where the art comes from as long as it doesn't cost. But not apologizing once it's clear that you've adapted a Nazi image is egotism taken to a nutty degree.

22 lawhawk  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 1:44:06pm

Let me see if I've got the timeline right here.

This was a cartoon first published in 1942 in an anti-Semitic posting to support the ongoing Nazi regime.

Breitbart's outfit, as edited by Dana Loesch, then uses a recycled version (take out the Star of David, adjust the nose, add Media Bias) but otherwise keeps the cartoon identical on January 8, July 2, and then this week (December 15).

It's used three separate times, and only after the third time, does Media Matters note its use and highlights its anti-Semitic origins.

The response from Breitbart and Loesch? Not to admit that they screwed up for using it, but to attack those who highlight its origins.

Then, they have the audacity to claim that Joel Pollak noticed the graphic, and alerted Dana that Joel suspected it was a recycled anti-Jewish cartoon. (Dana notes that he’s an Orthodox Jew with a degree in Jewish Studies, so he tends to pick up on these things.) If that's the case, why didn't he pick up that the first two times it ran.

Seems that they had no problem with it running the first two times, and are only complaining about being caught when it ran a third time after being exposed by Media Matters and Charles.

Frickin' crybabies. Own up to screwing up and move on. Show some frickin' journalistic integrity that you claim is lacking everywhere else in the media (but which seems to be wholly lacking from right wing echo chamber sites like Big (fill in the blank) and Breitbart in general.

23 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 1:44:35pm

re: #17 HAL2010

For Big Journalism!

[Video]

I love that episode. Especially the way the banners keep modifying from meeting to meeting, inching by elements closer...

24 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 1:44:44pm

Americans really don't like lies. We don't have that "save face" ethic and really can't stand it.

Man-up, admit you are human and learn from it.

25 Atlas Fails  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 1:44:51pm

But Obama's the anti-semitic one, because

'67 BORDERS!!!11ty

26 jaunte  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 1:45:36pm

re: #22 lawhawk

Media Matters pointed it out the first time on March 14.

27 Charles Johnson  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 1:46:01pm

re: #21 jaunte

That's the absurd thing about this. I think they used the cartoon because they're too cheap to buy their own originals, and they don't care where the art comes from as long as it doesn't cost. But not apologizing once it's clear that you've adapted a Nazi image is egotism taken to a nutty degree.

Apparently the image has been circulating around far right sites for a while. The sick fucks at Stormfront published the original a couple of years ago.

This bubbled up through the far right blogs.

28 lawhawk  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 1:46:47pm

re: #26 jaunte

So, Breitbart's gang had an opportunity to rectify things but ran it two more times.

29 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 1:48:37pm

re: #25 Atlas Fails

But Obama's the anti-semitic one, because

I honestly don't think they're anti-Semites. I think they're just bone-lazy and somewhat insane.

30 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 1:50:01pm

re: #29 SanFranciscoZionist

I honestly don't think they're anti-Semites. I think they're just bone-lazy and somewhat insane.

There are a lot of people who don't have boundaries when it comes to humor. It amazes me.

31 engineer cat  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 1:51:33pm

in a way it can be regarded as a subconscious admission that their "political philosophy" is nothing better than recycled nazi horseshit

32 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 1:51:44pm

re: #24 ggt

Americans really don't like lies. We don't have that "save face" ethic and really can't stand it.

Man-up, admit you are human and learn from it.

They can't do it! Politics are at stake! :D


It'd be like Ann Coulter suddenly apologizing for anything she's done. it hurts their RW brand to ever admit failure or mistakes

33 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 1:52:24pm

re: #32 WindUpBird

They can't do it! Politics are at stake! :D

It'd be like Ann Coulter suddenly apologizing for anything she's done. it hurts their RW brand to ever admit failure or mistakes

so-called Christians?

/gah

34 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 1:53:09pm

re: #20 ggt

STUPID INTERNET!

35 Atlas Fails  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 1:53:41pm

re: #29 SanFranciscoZionist

I honestly don't think they're anti-Semites. I think they're just bone-lazy and somewhat insane.

I don't think Breitbart and his toadies are anti-Semites either (Breitbart's Jewish, isn't he?), but it's amusing to see a Nazi cartoon published on a site that labels everyone to the left of Benjamin Netanyahu anti-Semitic.

36 Charles Johnson  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 1:55:22pm

A responsible editor would investigate how this cartoon ended up at their site, to make sure it doesn't happen again. Somebody created it, and somebody found it somewhere and then posted it.

If these people gave one solitary shit about responsible journalism, they'd follow up on this.

37 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 1:55:37pm

re: #35 Atlas Fails

I don't think Breitbart and his toadies are anti-Semites either (Breitbart's Jewish, isn't he?), but it's amusing to see a Nazi cartoon published on a site that labels everyone to the left of Benjamin Netanyahu anti-Semitic.

it's all just so amateur hour over there :D

38 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 1:56:12pm

re: #35 Atlas Fails

I don't think Breitbart and his toadies are anti-Semites either (Breitbart's Jewish, isn't he?), but it's amusing to see a Nazi cartoon published on a site that labels everyone to the left of Benjamin Netanyahu anti-Semitic.

Whaddya know, Breitbart is Jewish. (Looked him up.) I wouldn't have guessed.

39 engineer cat  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 1:56:44pm

jewish, not jewish, what difference does it make? propaganda that claims that sub humans are running the world is the same no matter who the boogey man is

40 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 1:57:43pm

re: #39 engineer dog

jewish, not jewish, what difference does it make? propaganda that claims that sub humans are running the world is the same no matter who the boogey man is

Sorry if inappropriate, but I think there is a joke about politicians in there.

:0

Politicans are fair game -no? generic politicans?

41 HAL2010  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 1:57:50pm

Big Journalism?

More like blowhard "journalism".

Mind, it's not exactly like it is a shocker that their website is full of smears and fantasy.
Big Journalism dabbles in lies, smears and coverups?
Oh the HUMANITY!

42 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 1:58:24pm

How hard can it be to find a non-Nazi propaganda picture of a fat guy.

Image: fat_man_21015.jpg

That took 20 seconds.

43 HAL2010  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 1:59:26pm

re: #42 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

How hard can it be to find a non-Nazi propaganda picture of a fat guy.

Image: fat_man_21015.jpg

That took 20 seconds.

If Limbaugh got a little bit fatter, grew a mustache ...

44 Mocking Jay  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 1:59:55pm

re: #42 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Get that man a slimfast!

45 AK-47%  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 2:00:30pm

re: #35 Atlas Fails

I don't think Breitbart and his toadies are anti-Semites either (Breitbart's Jewish, isn't he?), but it's amusing to see a Nazi cartoon published on a site that labels everyone to the left of Benjamin Netanyahu anti-Semitic.

They are just the schoolyard bullies of the Internet, and their reaction is typical of bullying behavior when they are caught and called out.

46 Amory Blaine  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 2:01:27pm

Things are going to get worse with the republicans. They are unapologetic for everything they've been doing.

47 jaunte  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 2:01:54pm

I see that BigJournalism had another big illustration world scoop earlier: Shepard Fairey recycles his images!!!

48 HAL2010  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 2:02:07pm

re: #45 ralphieboy

They are just the schoolyard bullies of the Internet, and their reaction is typical of bullying behavior when they are caught and called out.

Well I blame the liberal media smear machine for pointing out that the picture was of Nazi origin, bastards!

//

49 HAL2010  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 2:03:14pm

re: #46 Amory Blaine

Things are going to get worse with the republicans. They are unapologetic for everything they've been doing.

It's ironic, because he is married to a man.

/

50 Atlas Fails  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 2:05:27pm

re: #40 ggt

Sorry if inappropriate, but I think there is a joke about politicians in there.

:0

Politicans are fair game -no? generic politicans?

Um...not always.

51 HAL2010  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 2:06:29pm

re: #50 Atlas Fails

Um...not always.

Palin wasn't joking ...

52 AK-47%  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 2:06:39pm

re: #48 HAL2010

Well I blame the liberal media smear machine for pointing out that the picture was of Nazi origin, bastards!

//

How about blaming Jewish cosmopolitan bankers for inciting the Nazis to publish that image in the first place?

////

53 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 2:07:51pm

re: #38 SanFranciscoZionist

Whaddya know, Breitbart is Jewish. (Looked him up.) I wouldn't have guessed.

I once outlined a religious school class that I never got to teach, titled, "Meyer Lansky, and Other Real Turkeys Who Brought Shame Upon the House of Israel".

54 Summer Seale  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 2:07:59pm

Back in July, during the #nymwars height, I used a Nazi-poster and photoshopped it - but making the point against Nazi propaganda and fascist ideas. Unlike Breitbart, I wasn't making the point that Jews or big media run the world.

[Link: summerseale.com...]

If you want to see. The circumstances may be a little lost on you though, so please make sure you read what I posted. It's a rant about, at the time, Google's policies on 'nyms.

After my post, the engineer in question did apologize, and after many tens of thousands people ranted in the media for months, Google appears to have wavered slightly. I'm just trying to explain the circumstances really quickly why I would have photoshopped such a picture. And again, as I said, the portrayal is the Jew as the victim - the total opposite of what Breitbart's organization tried to do.

There are legitimate uses for parody of such things. I just think Breitbart did the opposite of that.

55 Kronocide  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 2:08:34pm

Jerry Brown blasts GOP on climate change

"We have an entire political party that is in absolute denial" regarding the human impacts on greenhouse gases, Brown told the Governor's Conference on Extreme Climate Risks and California's Future at a conference at the California Academy of Sciences in San Francisco.

56 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 2:13:01pm

re: #54 Summer

There are legitimate uses for parody of such things. I just think Breitbart did the opposite of that.

I just can't imagine that they couldn't find something else to use.

Looking at it objectively, it does nothing to make point.

Just dumb.

57 Summer Seale  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 2:14:57pm

re: #56 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I just can't imagine that they couldn't find something else to use.

Looking at it objectively, it does nothing to make point.

Just dumb.

I was talking about mine. I don't think theirs is legitimate at all.

In their case, they are saying "I agree with the tenets of the picture"

In my case, I'm saying "I don't agree with your methods, and this is what I think it leads to."

Not the same at all.

58 Charles Johnson  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 2:15:26pm

You know, even without the hook nose and the Star of David, that cartoon just reeks of "Jews control the media" antisemitism.

59 AK-47%  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 2:16:21pm

You ain't just (dog) whistlin' Dixie...

60 Mocking Jay  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 2:18:03pm

re: #57 Summer

I was talking about mine. I don't think theirs is legitimate at all.

In their case, they are saying "I agree with the tenets of the picture"

In my case, I'm saying "I don't agree with your methods, and this is what I think it leads to."

Not the same at all.

Yeah, but images like that can have a negative impact on some viewers simply because of the source. IMHO I would advise you to stay away from that imagery, regardless of your intentions.

61 HAL2010  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 2:19:05pm

re: #58 Charles

You know, even without the hook nose and the Star of David, that cartoon just reeks of "Jews control the media" antisemitism.

And I'm sure they were completely oblivious to this fact...

62 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 2:19:41pm
63 recusancy  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 2:20:34pm

I'm sure KT and NJD were all over this!

64 Summer Seale  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 2:22:16pm

re: #60 JasonA

Yeah, but images like that can have a negative impact on some viewers simply because of the source. IMHO I would advise you to stay away from that imagery, regardless of your intentions.

I thought about it very hard, and I was talking to my sister, Winter, online about it for around three hours. But I decided to go with it because I really felt as if the policy was fascist in a sense.

It did work, though. I got a ton of support and almost no criticism. Honestly, I was a bit surprised but pleased too. And since the guy apologized and backed down very shortly after, I consider it, in a sense, a total success.

65 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 2:23:50pm

bbl

66 HAL2010  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 2:29:56pm

I must add that I am not attempting to spam this thread, I am merely avoiding doing my work due tomorrow at noon (in about 12.5 hours).

At the moment I am discussing when what needs to be true for a variable to serve as a valid instrument, with regards to settler mortality.

Oh the joys of methods.

67 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 2:30:08pm

re: #58 Charles

You know, even without the hook nose and the Star of David, that cartoon just reeks of "Jews control the media" antisemitism.

The memes of 'evil liberals' and 'evil Jews' are closely related, and share a lot of overlap.

Cosmopolitan. International. Urban. Claiming victimhood. Diluting the nation's true, rightful, normal culture. Media. Educated. Think they're smarter than you. Foreign. Commies. Secret organizations and agendas. Lecherous. Controlling the government. Taking your money.

(This list, somewhat modified, also makes up some of the basis of left-leaning anti-Semitism, hilariously enough, but let's focus on the wingnuts for now.)

What this means, of course, is that Breitbart's crew is going to find, ineveitably, that a lot of Nazi imagery IS going to match what they're writing about. Their stereotypes of liberals and their evil are first cousins to classic anti-Semitic images, and there's gonna be a family resemblance, even if you do give the puppet-master a nose job.

68 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 2:30:33pm

How do you deliberately modify an anti-Semitic cartoon, altering the character's nose and deleting the star of David, and then call its use "innocent" without knowing its provenance?

The only possible way that could be true is if they first came across the image already modified - which I'd say they have a burden to prove.

I'm not sure what is more bizarre, that they'd offer that kind of a statement, or that they'd think that anyone would accept such an explanation without evidence.

The fact of the matter is that they used an image whose provenance in all probability they knew to be anti-Semitic. I guess it might be possible to believe that they legitimately didn't intend the use of the image to send an overtly anti-Semetic message (hard to believe, but possible). But to say that they "innocently" used an image whose provenance they didn't know is flat out ridiculous.

69 engineer cat  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 2:30:58pm

re: #58 Charles

You know, even without the hook nose and the Star of David, that cartoon just reeks of "Jews control the media" antisemitism.

it's the way racism works, of course - you only have to mention "controls the media" for jews to be silently referenced, just like "poor people" is automatically black people, "terrorists" == arabs, and "illegal aliens" is anyone speaking spanish

the scandal to me is that it is still perfectly acceptable to bloviate about the "heartland", which automatically makes people like me who are, for example, natives of new york city, into alien non-americans whenever it is mentioned

70 HAL2010  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 2:33:18pm

re: #67 SanFranciscoZionist

shorthand for that?

"New York sensibilities"

I think the term was used in the very first episode of the West Wing.

71 allegro  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 2:33:41pm

re: #68 Talking Point Detective

How do you deliberately modify an anti-Semitic cartoon, altering the character's nose and deleting the star of David, and then call its use "innocent" without knowing its provenance?

The only possible way that could be true is if they first came across the image already modified - which I'd say they have a burden to prove.

I'm not sure what is more bizarre, that they'd offer that kind of a statement, or that they'd think that anyone would accept such an explanation without evidence.

The fact of the matter is that they used an image whose provenance in all probability they knew to be anti-Semitic. I guess it might be possible to believe that they legitimately didn't intend the use of the image to send an overtly anti-Semetic message (hard to believe, but possible). But to say that they "innocently" used an image whose provenance they didn't know is flat out ridiculous.

Isn't that a real long and round about admission of not paying attention to where they plagiarized from?

72 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 2:34:04pm

re: #22 lawhawk

The response from Breitbart and Loesch? Not to admit that they screwed up for using it, but to attack those who highlight its origins.

Only the racists talk about race.

//

73 wrenchwench  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 2:35:19pm

If that was a flame war on Twitter, Loesch was armed with baking soda. Sort of a self-extinguishing intellect.

74 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 2:36:03pm

re: #71 allegro

Isn't that a real long and round about admission of not paying attention to where they plagiarized from?

If they were responsible for the modifications to the original, it isn't even that.

Best case scenario is that they didn't pay attention to where they got it from, and had no clue that in the modified form it still had anti-Semitic connotations. That is possible. Irresponsible and I'd say naive, but possible.

75 Obdicut  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 2:36:13pm

re: #58 Charles

You know, even without the hook nose and the Star of David, that cartoon just reeks of "Jews control the media" antisemitism.

Yep. Anyone who's looked at any anti-semitic propaganda would recognize it instantly. And the guy still looks like a Jewish stereotype, and it still looks like the ad is saying "This guy and guys like him are responsible for media bias".

76 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 2:37:11pm

re: #67 SanFranciscoZionist

Their stereotypes of liberals and their evil are first cousins to classic anti-Semitic images, and there's gonna be a family resemblance, even if you do give the puppet-master a nose job.

Same for their stereotypes of Obama and those of us like him, who also vote for him. As we know, there is legendary overlap amongst Black radicals i.e. MLK who is now a Republican / and Jewish radicals.

Poor them! Sucks so much to have to be them!

Sorrrrosssss!!!

/Schadenfreude

77 Mattand  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 2:37:18pm

re: #30 ggt

There are a lot of people who don't have boundaries when it comes to humor. It amazes me.

In my experience, the people who complain the loudest political correctness are the ones that get pissed off when someone points out the inherent racism in their "humor".

78 What, me worry?  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 2:38:06pm

re: #54 Summer

Well... I really have to disagree with the photo on your site. Just as much as with Loesch and Breitbart.

I haven't read you anywhere else than here and I've always liked what you say. I also like your humor and find you clever, so I want to say that.

I also get your side of the story, completely and totally about Google and "real internet people". But you (your sister?) had an account suspended on the internet, which is far and away, vastly by a million miles, different than what happened in Nazi Germany. And I don't have to go further than that.

I know you're pissed, but invoking Godwin here the way you did is really bizarre and insulting to people who survived one of the worst calamities in history.

79 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 2:39:26pm

re: #36 Charles

A responsible editor would investigate how this cartoon ended up at their site, to make sure it doesn't happen again. Somebody created it, and somebody found it somewhere and then posted it.

If these people gave one solitary shit about responsible journalism, they'd follow up on this.

Charles - has anyone tried to play the "but Breitbart is Jewish so therefore.." card, yet?

80 Charles Johnson  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 2:39:40pm

Andrew Breitbart responds:

I'll apologize - again - for accidentally posting innocent cartoon w dubious origin, if George Soros publicly apologizes for aiding Nazis.

81 Killgore Trout  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 2:40:10pm

re: #63 recusancy

I'm sure KT and NJD were all over this!

I've done far more to expose Beck and Breitbart here than you ever have. I'm quite comfortable with my contributions and history here.

82 Mattand  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 2:40:57pm

The comments on Dana Loesch's article are only about 10 deep right now. It's about 80% making excuses for running the cartoon. Kinda scary.

I'm in my mid 40's. I was hoping that this kind of ignorance would have died out by now. It's the kind of "logic" I associate with my parents' and grandparents' way of thinking. If anything, thanks to idiots like Limbaugh and Beck, it seems worse.

83 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 2:41:40pm

re: #54 Summer

There are legitimate uses for parody of such things.

In our country, and political environment? Ok, if you say so. ///

84 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 2:42:19pm

re: #80 Charles

Andrew Breitbart responds:

After all, you were right about the tea party.

e_e

85 Charles Johnson  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 2:42:20pm

re: #79 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Charles - has anyone tried to play the "but Breitbart is Jewish so therefore.." card, yet?

Breitbart posted this series of tweets:

And the last of The Seven Blessings is too long. But you get the picture.

[...]

Sameach te-samach re'im ahuvim, k'samechacha yetzircha b'Gan Eden mi-kedem. Baruch Atah Adonai, mesame'ach chatan v'kalah.

[...]

Sos tasis v'tagel ha-akarah, b'kibbutz bane'ha letocha b'simchaa. Baruch Atah Adonai, mesame'ach tzion b'vaneha.

[...]

[cont] Baruch Atah Adonai yotzer ha-adam.

[...]

Baruch Atah Adonai Eloheinu Melech Ha-Olam, asher yatzar et ha-adam betzalmo, b'tzelem dmut tavnito, vehitkon lo mimenu binyan adei ad.

[...]

Baruch Atah Adonai Eloheinu Melech Ha-Olam, yotzer ha-adam.

[...]

Baruch Atah Adonai Eloheinu Melech Ha-Olam, she-hakol barah lichvodo.

[...]

Baruch Atah Adonai Eloheinu Melech Ha-Olam, boreh p'ri ha-gafen.

86 Atlas Fails  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 2:42:27pm

re: #80 Charles

Andrew Breitbart responds:

Ah, the "sorry you're such an asshole" apology. Wouldn't expect anything else from that scumbag.

87 HAL2010  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 2:44:22pm

re: #80 Charles

Andrew Breitbart responds:

What a fucking dick.

88 bratwurst  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 2:45:18pm

re: #80 Charles

Andrew Breitbart responds:

Every time I see someone reference "Soros aided the Nazis" (and unfortunately, it is a right wing go-to line) I always like to ask if they have a whole list of children whose actions during the war don't meet with their approval.

89 HAL2010  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 2:46:08pm

OT I know, please forgive me.

Obama: Worst Socialist ever.

Rather than raise taxes, he has inherited the lowest tax rates in a generation ... and lowered them repeatedly while presiding over a period of exacerbating income inequality and a stupendous wealth comeback on Wall Street ... To date, the "socialist" White House has presided over the lightest overall tax burden in half a century.

90 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 2:47:23pm

re: #85 Charles

Ah thanks. I was not able to follow along on Twitter today.

Reminds me of how Herman Cain's problems are all caused by Democrat Party is just afraid that the troo black man in the race is a far right conservative.

Dumb, confederates...HC, Loesch, West, Breitbart and the rest of the anti-Niagara Movement brigades heartily deserve each other.

91 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 2:51:12pm

re: #82 mattand

The comments on Dana Loesch's article are only about 10 deep right now, it's about 80% making excuses for running the cartoon. Kinda scary.

I'm in my mid 40's. I was hoping that this kind of ignorance would have died out by now. It's the kind of "logic" I associate with my parents' and grandparents' way of thinking. If anything, thanks to idiots like Limbaugh and Beck, it seems worse.

Those are the same people who will call us Black Dems apes, while claiming an abject failure like Herman Cain is the trooly authentic model of troo black success.

Confused, angry social conservative confederates, lol. And people wonder why I cannot take them seriously as intellectual equals, even for a minute.

92 kirkspencer  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 2:51:36pm

re: #80 Charles

Andrew Breitbart responds:

So, he's not adult enough to say "I was wrong, I apologize." Instead he has to play to quoque - "Well, what I did may have been wrong, but that unconnected person did wrong and I won't apologize till he does."

Child.

93 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 2:53:27pm

re: #66 HAL2010

At the moment I am discussing when what needs to be true for a variable to serve as a valid instrument, with regards to settler mortality.

Image: oregontrail.jpg

94 HAL2010  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 2:54:28pm

re: #93 negativ

For settler mortality to function as a valid instrument (VI) it would have to have a strong effect on economic institutions (X) but not on long term economic growth (Y). For this to be true VI would have to have no relation for long term economic growth at all, and only effect the economic institutions the settlers brought with them.

Answer so far ..
Pah, I just want to pass this course so I can write about China

95 engineer cat  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 2:59:59pm

re: #80 Charles

Andrew Breitbart responds:
I'll apologize - again - for accidentally posting innocent cartoon w dubious origin, if George Soros publicly apologizes for aiding Nazis.

i'll take note that nazis are now merely "dubious"

96 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:01:42pm

re: #8 jaunte

Whatever assistant photoshopped the Star of David out of the original sure knew where it was from.

Sure, but it (likely) wasn't any assistant at BJ.

97 Obdicut  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:02:28pm

re: #95 engineer dog

i'll take note that nazis are now merely "dubious"

Dubious things might turn out to be A-ok in the end.

The Nazis did not turn out to be A-ok in the end.

98 Mocking Jay  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:06:00pm

So unless Soros apologizes, it's perfectly okay to use antisemitic Nazi cartoons. Okay, I'm all caught up now I think.

99 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:06:02pm

re: #68 Talking Point Detective

The only possible way that could be true is if they first came across the image already modified - which I'd say they have a burden to prove.

Not really, as a quick google search shows the image all around the internet (mostly at right-wing blogs, where they likely copied it).

100 Summer Seale  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:07:22pm

re: #78 marjoriemoon

It wasn't just her. It was tens of thousands of people every day for a couple of weeks.

Many had their emails locked out, as well as their phones because their Android logins were no longer working. Access on a professional level and personal level for many people was entirely disrupted simply because they were accused of not being "real people". Simply being reported as a Pseudonym account was enough to get you banned.

It happened to famous people as well, by the way.

I wasn't, however, portraying all of that in the poster. What I was portraying was an attitude best exemplified at Google by that engineer who posted that you should report people you suspect of using a pseudonym - which tens of thousands of people apparently did. That declaration was fascistic, as was the declaration that we're not real people - the implication that locking out our digital communications (some of which we had literally paid for, might I add), was perfectly acceptable.

Nobody actually died from it, nobody was imprisoned, but merely stating that we should weed out all those who aren't "like us" and lock them out suddenly, without any recourse whatsoever, was over the line. In fact, he had to backtrack and apologize, and Google had to go back and re-instate people after they got raked over the coals for it.

I merely was trying to point out that telling others to report people in such a manner, to make them "disappear", was tantamount to the same idea in real life. I know that nobody actually was killed or rounded up, but it was the same effect - and I wasn't the only one pointing this out. A lot of Germans, who are very sensitive about that sort of thing, called Google on it and declared it a completely fascist policy. Many of them also threatened to sue Google over it, and the German government started looking into allegations of abuse with Google's policy over this.

I still stand by it. My graphic, and thousands of others, and thousands of articles decrying Google's behavior and stance, made them back down. They were ashamed of how they handled the people who were depending on Google as a communications medium (and I don't just mean a silly social network, but their android phones and email) were re-instated, for the most part.

When somebody in a position of power starts telling others to point out the "different" people so that they can get rid of them - virtual or otherwise - it is no different to me than what any fascist regime has done. So, I don't apologize for it and, unlike Breitbart's use of the cartoon, I am not agreeing with the notion of the poster. What I'm saying is: I don't agree with that. Being called a 'nym is the new Jew, Gay, or "other", and I was fed up with a ton of people being treated as if they were simply things to throw out into the digital dustbin.

And, I can tell you, if my Android phone had been locked out because of them, as a paying customer of Google's, I would have gone far more ballistic than I already had gone. They had no ethical right, they tried to erase our identities, and I wouldn't stand for it.

I still don't. They still have an unclear policy. But after we got so pissed off, and practically every single publication reamed them for it for months, they appear to have quieted down at least for now.

I'm sorry if that poster bothers you, but that's the point. The point is that when people start telling you to point to entire groups of other people so that they can be forcibly removed from your sight, that crosses the line of bigotry. And to me, regardless of if people are put in actual concentration camps or not, bigotry is still bigotry. That poster was merely a reminder of what bigotry really, in the end, looks like.

101 Mattand  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:08:29pm

re: #80 Charles

Andrew Breitbart responds:

What's the story behind the "Soros was a traitor" stuff? That line keeps breaking my bullshit meter.

I forget where I saw it (Maddow, possibly) but I thought the deal was something along the lines he was forced to tag along as the Nazis rounded people up. No actual traitor-ing involved.

102 Martinsmithy  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:08:36pm

This story is a tempest in a teapot. I can't imagine that even Big Journalism would knowingly filch a nazi cartoon. It would take someone of Michael Moore's level of paranoia to claim otherwise.

Now their lack of grace when it was pointed out to them is telling re: their bald-faced shamelessness, but it's ridiculous to insinuate that they knew it was an old nazi cartoon from the start.

103 Mocking Jay  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:08:50pm

re: #100 Summer

It's ridiculous to think your avatars are real people until they incorporate.

104 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:09:08pm

re: #80 Charles

So, in what way did a 14 y.o. Jewish child hiding from the Holocaust aided the Nazis?

Breitbart is a stain on humanity.

105 Charles Johnson  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:10:10pm

On Twitter, Breitbart is describing the cartoon as "innocuous" and claiming you wouldn't even notice it was antisemitic if you didn't know where it came from.

Bullshit. Even the modified version is obviously full of antisemitic stereotypes.

106 Mocking Jay  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:10:23pm

re: #104 Sergey Romanov

Breitbart is a stain on (the underwear of) humanity.

I like it better my way.

107 Obdicut  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:12:26pm

re: #100 Summer

There was no need to use that graphic, and any time I see a stereotypical picture of a Jew like that it makes me flinch. Please don't use graphics that include stereotypes of Jews, unless you're specifically pointing out how stupid that stereotype was.

Would you use a stereotype of a black person to make your point?

108 Obdicut  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:13:33pm

re: #102 Martinsmithy

Now their lack of grace when it was pointed out to them is telling re: their bald-faced shamelessness, but it's ridiculous to insinuate that they knew it was an old nazi cartoon from the start.

I don't think they care, honestly.

Where did they think it came from?

I guess this is another one of those occasions where the only good defense is a high level of incompetence.

109 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:13:44pm

I had a girlfriend that liked using this tactic often. Call her out on her shitty behavior/actions, and she would twist like a tornado to make it entirely your fault.

operative word being "had"

110 Summer Seale  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:14:15pm

re: #107 Obdicut

There was no need to use that graphic, and any time I see a stereotypical picture of a Jew like that it makes me flinch. Please don't use graphics that include stereotypes of Jews, unless you're specifically pointing out how stupid that stereotype was.

Would you use a stereotype of a black person to make your point?

That's exactly the point I was making: That stereotype was wrong.

111 Charles Johnson  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:14:23pm

re: #102 Martinsmithy

Was it on purpose? Probably not. Was it an "accident?" I'd argue there's nothing accidental about such images showing up at Andrew Breitbart's websites. His bloggers are, without exception, the farthest of the far right. These images are circulating around the far right blogs and sites, and probably originated at neo-Nazi sites. The Media Matters article links to a page at Stormfront with the original Nazi graphic. From there it bubbled up to far right blogs, and then to Big Journalism.

That's not an accident. They're all swimming in the same sea. They're neighbors.

112 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:14:42pm

I just have a hard time wrapping my brain around the thought process of using Nazi propaganda with some modifications. Why would anyone think this was a good idea?

113 Mattand  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:15:35pm

re: #100 Summer

Look, Summer, as a cartoonist, I understand what you're saying.

Having said that: seriously. You made a horrible, horrible judgement call by comparing Google to the Nazis. Particularly by using a poster that urges people to turn their neighbors for possibly being Jewish.

But, hey, at least you scored one for political incorrectness.

114 Charles Johnson  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:16:01pm

There's more than one altered version of the Nazi graphic, too, by the way. I saw one with an Obama button added.

115 Obdicut  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:16:11pm

re: #110 Summer

That's exactly the point I was making: That stereotype was wrong.

No, it wasn't. You were making a point about how Google was acting. That was your main point.

Why would you use an offensively stereotypical picture when you don't have to? What does it gain you to include a picture of a Jew represented in that fashion?

116 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:16:42pm

re: #70 HAL2010

shorthand for that?

"New York sensibilities"

I think the term was used in the very first episode of the West Wing.

I recall that scene. Josh doesn't get it. Toby does.

117 engineer cat  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:17:05pm

re: #107 Obdicut

There was no need to use that graphic, and any time I see a stereotypical picture of a Jew like that it makes me flinch. Please don't use graphics that include stereotypes of Jews, unless you're specifically pointing out how stupid that stereotype was.

Would you use a stereotype of a black person to make your point?

i tried singing "when the hippies beat their feet on the mississippi mud", but you can't because the racism can't merely be bleached out of this stuff

118 Summer Seale  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:19:34pm

re: #103 JasonA

It's ridiculous to think your avatars are real people until they incorporate.

I won't have time to get into it now except to say that this "unreal" avatar helped to raise a lot of real money for real causes to help real people over the last five years, as well as created a virtual tool which helps psychologists to treat some children with Autism and other related problems using virtual techniques for which my "unreal" avatar was much praised and thanked by the educators in Teen Second Life. I'm a little bit proud of that and other things I've done, thank you, and I didn't relish the thought of being told I wasn't worthy of being on an account which I was paying for - and invited to do so by Google before they suddenly changed their minds.

This "unreal" avatar also spends a lot of money on things with my very real credit card, some of which was money going towards Google (and still does).

I'm about as "unreal" as Salman Rushdie who also, recently ran into the problem of being called "unreal" by Facebook and was suspended for it before they apologized and re-instated him.

119 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:19:45pm

re: #80 Charles

Andrew Breitbart responds:

That fucker.

I carry no special torch for Soros, but accusing him of aiding the Nazis is despicable and stupid.

Also, dumbass mindset. "I did something stupid by accident. I'll apologize if...LOOK! A SQUIRREL!! I MEAN SOROS!!"

120 Obdicut  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:19:49pm

re: #116 SanFranciscoZionist

I recall that scene. Josh doesn't get it. Toby does.

That was a satisfying episode. Was it close to the first?

121 darthstar  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:21:25pm

Okay...I'm going to try and get myself interested in something, anything, having to do with Breitbart...

...trying...

...trying...

...failing...

...sigh.

122 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:21:30pm

re: #85 Charles

Breitbart posted this series of tweets:

OK, I'll bite. Is Breitbart getting married? Or is there some other reason he's tweeting the Sheva Brachos?

123 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:23:43pm

re: #98 JasonA

So unless Soros apologizes, it's perfectly okay to use antisemitic Nazi cartoons. Okay, I'm all caught up now I think.

OK, so am I now free to do whatever I want until Soros apologizes? Or does this only work for non-Democrats?

124 Mocking Jay  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:25:00pm

re: #118 Summer

Maybe in a little while you'll get the joke.

Anywho, this isn't really about Google's decision to ban avatars. I'm on your side in that discussion. It's about the use of that imagery. And you've made it clear that you don't think there's anything wrong with it. You have the right to use it, but some of us just want you to be aware that it's highly offensive to certain people, and I can't blame them for feeling that way.

125 Summer Seale  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:25:36pm

re: #115 Obdicut

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Read it again. Maybe you'll understand why. I just explained everything. I said that their policy of telling people to report suspected pseudonyms to block them entirely was bigotry. And that poster is what bigotry looks like.

It sounds to me as if you think I agree with the stereotype. I don't. I think I made that clear.

I wouldn't be moving to Israel in a week if I thought that the stereotype was real. But I am moving to Israel, so please spare me the "you must secretly harbor thoughts..." spiel, thank you very much. I'm saying that there are legitimate uses and comparisons, and I pulled one up. I also said that I don't think Breitbart's use was legitimate because in that instance, it's an agreement with the portrayal when mine was obviously a disagrement of the portrayal.

I'm not sure how much more clear I can be on it. And again: the engineer saw how dreadfully wrong he was and backed down and apologized. And I wasn't the only one to make the comparison. A lot of people were rightly infuriated as was I.

126 Ming  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:25:47pm

re: #102 Martinsmithy

This story is a tempest in a teapot. I can't imagine that even Big Journalism would knowingly filch a nazi cartoon. It would take someone of Michael Moore's level of paranoia to claim otherwise.

Now their lack of grace when it was pointed out to them is telling re: their bald-faced shamelessness, but it's ridiculous to insinuate that they knew it was an old nazi cartoon from the start.

I think it's important to emphasize that in this case, the "cover-up" is much, much, much worse than the "crime". Anyone can make a mistake and select a cartoon like that, without realizing where it came from. I make mistakes all the time. I don't mean to be insensitive about the cartoon when I say that I really don't think the "crime", the selection of that cartoon, is that big a deal, assuming of course that the upper-editors of Big Government didn't know it was a nazi cartoon.

But the "cover-up" exposes a defect of character that is truly horrifying. Andrew Breitbart, who I think is Jewish, says that the cartoon is "innocuous" (Charles' comment 105, above). For someone who's Jewish to describe the cartoon as "innocuous" is despicable.

I'm going overboard in responding to Martinsmithy's comment, but I want to be clear that the original mistake is NOTHING compared with the juvenile "I know you are but what am I" cover-up. This is why I continue to be concerned about the right wing nowadays, even though some on the left wing are all-but-openly anti-Semitic. There is something about the right-wing INTENSITY that troubles me, and yes, reminds me of "European-style fascism".

127 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:28:06pm

re: #101 mattand

What's the story behind the "Soros was a traitor" stuff? That line keeps breaking my bullshit meter.

I forget where I saw it (Maddow, possibly) but I thought the deal was something along the lines he was forced to tag along as the Nazis rounded people up. No actual traitor-ing involved.

As a young teenager, he was staying with a man who was a collaborator of some kind, I think he cleared out the homes of people who'd been rounded up and sorted stuff for auction, IIRC. Soros may have gone with this man on 'work', and ran errands for him.

He lived through the war. This is, you know, to real people, a blessing and a triumph, that one more young boy didn't end up dead in the camps.

Asked about this in an interview years later, Soros refused to do 'pathetic survivor' on cue, and said he did not feel guilty for doing what he needed to in order to survive.

If he gave money to right-wing causes, these godforsaken assholes who attack him about it would consider him a profile in courage. This is the most vile and blatant bullshit.

128 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:29:46pm

re: #101 mattand

What's the story behind the "Soros was a traitor" stuff? That line keeps breaking my bullshit meter.

I forget where I saw it (Maddow, possibly) but I thought the deal was something along the lines he was forced to tag along as the Nazis rounded people up. No actual traitor-ing involved.

Pardon for pimping my stuff, but I covered this in 2006:

[Link: holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com...]

[Link: holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com...]

129 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:30:27pm

re: #112 rwdflynavy

I just have a hard time wrapping my brain around the thought process of using Nazi propaganda with some modifications. Why would anyone think this was a good idea?

As someone said above, they probably got it from another site. Stormfront passes to a slightly less awful site, and so on, until it ends up in Big Journalism's hands.

Or maybe they have the Big Book O'Nazi Propaganda in the office and browse it for images they can use, but probably not.

130 Mocking Jay  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:30:51pm

If the Huffington Post had used this image it would be in the middle of an unholy shitstorm.

131 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:31:20pm

re: #122 SanFranciscoZionist

OK, I'll bite. Is Breitbart getting married? Or is there some other reason he's tweeting the Sheva Brachos?

It sounds more legit than screaming I ♡ BAGLES AND LOX YOU INSENSITIVE CLODS!!!

132 Obdicut  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:31:21pm

re: #125 Summer

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Read it again. Maybe you'll understand why. I just explained everything. I said that their policy of telling people to report suspected pseudonyms to block them entirely was bigotry. And that poster is what bigotry looks like.

I understand you fine. I think you're wrong. You're going to have to accept that. I don't think Google's policies deserve comparison to the Nazis, and I don't think you needed to use an image with a stereotypical portrayal of a Jew to make your point about Google's policies.

I wouldn't be moving to Israel in a week if I thought that the stereotype was real. But I am moving to Israel, so please spare me the "you must secretly harbor thoughts..." spiel, thank you very much.

What the fuck? Point out where I said you secretly harbored thoughts like that, or thought that it was real. That's a massively stupid accusation to pull out.

133 Charles Johnson  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:31:54pm

Imagine their reaction if Loesch or Breitbart found a modified Nazi cartoon on the New York Times website.

134 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:32:50pm

re: #120 Obdicut

That was a satisfying episode. Was it close to the first?

Yes, it was the pilot. I checked.

135 Killgore Trout  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:35:31pm

re: #130 JasonA

If the Huffington Post had used this image it would be in the middle of an unholy shitstorm.

Before DKos cleaned up they used to post worse stuff. Documentaries from neo-nazis about the evils of Israel and they wouldn't even bother to take the star of david of of their antisemitic cartoons.

136 Mattand  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:35:42pm

re: #130 JasonA

re: #133 Charles

Or NPR. Look at the bullshit they went through with that freelancer who dared to have an opinion that some right wingers didn't like.

137 Obdicut  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:36:47pm

re: #135 Killgore Trout

Before DKos cleaned up they used to post worse stuff. Documentaries from neo-nazis about the evils of Israel and they wouldn't even bother to take the star of david of of their antisemitic cartoons.

By 'they' do you mean people who wrote for it, or commentators?

138 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:38:11pm

re: #135 Killgore Trout

Before DKos cleaned up they used to post worse stuff. Documentaries from neo-nazis about the evils of Israel and they wouldn't even bother to take the star of david of of their antisemitic cartoons.

They didn't ever post such stuff though. Some of their users did, were quickly banished.

139 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:38:26pm

re: #130 JasonA

If the Huffington Post had used this image it would be in the middle of an unholy shitstorm.

Yeah. That's the thing. Breitbart would be on a crush stomp rampage against any liberal operation that had made this 'mistake'. Which makes it hard not point and laugh as he attempts to pretend it's no biggie.

140 Atlas Fails  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:38:26pm

re: #135 Killgore Trout

Before DKos cleaned up they used to post worse stuff. Documentaries from neo-nazis about the evils of Israel and they wouldn't even bother to take the star of david of of their antisemitic cartoons.

Hey, look over here, Daily Kos and Occupy Wall Street did some stuff...

141 Mocking Jay  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:38:57pm

re: #135 Killgore Trout

Before DKos cleaned up they used to post worse stuff. Documentaries from neo-nazis about the evils of Israel and they wouldn't even bother to take the star of david of of their antisemitic cartoons.

But at least they cleaned up.

142 Mattand  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:39:03pm

re: #127 SanFranciscoZionist

Thanks. Quite frankly, that whole meme has a nasty "Jews are so evil they'll turn on other Jews" dog whistle about it.

143 Killgore Trout  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:41:27pm

re: #141 JasonA

But at least they cleaned up.

They did. It took a while but they eventually recognized the problem and did something about it. I checked in on HuffPo a few days ago for their coverage of the Hamas anniversary celebration, it seems they've cleaned up over there too. Kudos to them for doing it.

144 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:41:29pm

re: #141 JasonA

But at least they cleaned up.

Don't buy into KT's frames.

145 Mattand  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:41:34pm

re: #128 Sergey Romanov

Thanks to you as well. Somehow missed your post.

146 Mocking Jay  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:43:04pm

re: #144 Sergey Romanov

Don't buy into KT's frames.

Meh. I've seen things I'd rather not have seen at Kos, especially when an I/P thread hits the rec list. It's not so much that bad comments would show up, but the support they would get that bothered me.

147 ArchangelMichael  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:44:53pm

re: #138 Sergey Romanov

They didn't ever post such stuff though. Some of their users did, were quickly banished.

It was common enough for Charles to have a series of posts here called "The Protocols of the Daily Kos".

148 Atlas Fails  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:45:12pm

re: #146 JasonA

Meh. I've seen things I'd rather not have seen at Kos, especially when an I/P thread hits the rec list. It's not so much that bad comments would show up, but they support they would get that bothered me.

I agree; even now, DKos is not my cup of tea. I just don't get KT's preoccupation with magical balance fairy-ing, and Kos seems to be his boogeyman of choice.

149 jaunte  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:46:56pm

Upding for 'crush stomp rampage'

150 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:47:28pm

re: #146 JasonA

Meh. I've seen things I'd rather not have seen at Kos, especially when an I/P thread hits the rec list. It's not so much that bad comments would show up, but they support they would get that bothered me.

It's not as if this still doesn't happen.

However, there wasn't any sort of a "clean-up" of antisemites. There wasn't a big bad antisemitism problem in the first place, cherrypicking at LGF aside. I checked those old posts, and the users who made them were always banned shortly thereafter, and were always countered in the comments by the DKos mainstream.

There was a famous clean-up in DKos history, and it concerned truthers.

151 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:47:52pm

re: #147 ArchangelMichael

It was common enough for Charles to have a series of posts here called "The Protocols of the Daily Kos".

Yes, I've addressed those posts in the past here.

152 Killgore Trout  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:49:00pm

re: #144 Sergey Romanov

Don't buy into KT's frames.

[Link: t0.gstatic.com...]

153 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:50:33pm

re: #152 Killgore Trout

[Link: t0.gstatic.com...]

Sure. Moreover, you can still register at DKos now, post such a page and make a screenshot. That's not the point, is it?

154 Killgore Trout  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:51:05pm

re: #147 ArchangelMichael

It was common enough for Charles to have a series of posts here called "The Protocols of the Daily Kos".

That exposure combine with the complaints from progressive Jews eventually caused Kos to clean up the site.

155 Summer Seale  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:51:19pm

re: #132 Obdicut

No it's not. You asked if I would have used a stereotypical picture of a racist cartoon to make a point, and yes I would: if the point is to show that racism and bigotry is an ugly thing. If I'm going to call out some bigoted thing, it is perfectly acceptable. To suggest that I am posting it because I agree with the content is, in itself, way over the line for me as well. When have I ever displayed tendencies towards that sort of thing? To even suggest that I am obtuse to these caricatures, when you know how I feel about racism and bigotry in general since years, is really an insult. I told you: that cartoon was meant to portray what bigotry looks like, not that Jews look like that, or that it's right to declare them. I was, in fact, making a point of rejecting that sort of thinking. So I take it as a suggestion that I must be as racist as the contents of the picture, which I am not. I think it's fairly clear that I am not, have never been, and will never be.

As far as others agreeing with that use or not, that is another matter. But just saying that you don't think Google's policies are comparable bigotry is one thing. That's fine. Debate that all you want. But if you start saying that I'm blind to the contents within, then you're either calling me an idiot or a racist bitch - neither accusation to which I shall take kindly.

Once again: I am merely pointing out that there are legitimate uses of these sorts of things to point out bigotry when warranted. And I'm not the only one saying that. I think it was a legitimate use to call out a bigoted policy, and I stand by it:

1) Because Google admitted they had made grave mistakes in enforcing that policy and

2) Because it got a lot of positive responses from people all across the spectrum who completely understood the meaning instantly for what was intended.

I'm sorry if you can't see it that way, but don't remember anyone else who couldn't - other than people here. And I have a hell of a lot of Israelis, Jews, and Liberals in my circles who follow me because of my stances against anti-semitism and my ethics against bigotry in the world.

156 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:51:31pm

re: #154 Killgore Trout

That exposure combine with the complaints from progressive Jews eventually caused Kos to clean up the site.

Can you give a link to the clean-up?

157 Charles Johnson  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:52:41pm

This modified Nazi image appears to have originated at this site:

[Link: personaltimes.blogspot.com...]

You can't get into it - it's by invitation only.

I discovered this because some of the copies of the modified image have the URL at the bottom right of the image.

158 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:55:05pm

re: #148 Atlas Fails

I agree; even now, DKos is not my cup of tea. I just don't get KT's preoccupation with magical balance fairy-ing, and Kos seems to be his boogeyman of choice.

Moreover, the idea that past user displays of intolerance are the measure of a site's worth is a sword that cuts all ways. Everyone's learned the necessity of strictly policing comments, except of course for certain RW blogs like Atlas Shrugs, Hot Air, Breitbart's BJ/BG/BH, PJM, FoxNation, etc which actually run on intolerance.

159 Mattand  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:57:00pm
re: #155 SummerI'm sorry if you can't see it that way, but don't remember anyone else who couldn't - other than people here. And I have a hell of a lot of Israelis, Jews, and Liberals in my circles who follow me because of my stances against anti-semitism and my ethics against bigotry in the world.

Some of my best friends are Jewish, too.

You made a piss poor choice to prove your point. It's one of the more creative uses of Godwin's Law I've seen in ages.

160 engineer cat  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:58:08pm

msnbc

GOP candidates for Congress bullish on Gingrich

The hot argument in Republican circles these days is whether nominating Newt Gingrich would be disastrous or providential.

oh please please teabaggers force thru the nomination of the eeebil amphibian

161 Killgore Trout  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 3:58:29pm

re: #156 Sergey Romanov

Can you give a link to the clean-up?

It's an ongoing process. Here's a recent example...
‘DailyKos’ bans Simone Daud, who sought to inject Palestinian view into US political discourse

No reason has been given for Daud's banning, but he was banned from the site right after Markos Moulitsas announced a new policy of stomping down divisive argument that hurt the Democratic Party:
...
This banning is another example of the sustained campaign against the Palestinian and Arab posters at DailyKos, by self defined 'liberal Zionists' whose primary interest is promoting Zionism and supporting the U.S. alliance with Israel. DailyKos has shown once again it is averse to Palestinian and Arab posters giving voice to their own aspirations or representing themselves, another example of Palestinians once again on the peripheral.

I would guess the cleanup sincerely began in about 2007. There are plenty of examples if you care to google search the topic. You could even search the LGF archives, there are plenty of examples.

162 Killgore Trout  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 4:00:01pm

re: #148 Atlas Fails

I agree; even now, DKos is not my cup of tea. I just don't get KT's preoccupation with magical balance fairy-ing, and Kos seems to be his boogeyman of choice.

I was responding to #130, mentioning Huntington Post.

163 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 4:01:12pm

I'm going to learn to make kubbeh.

164 Obdicut  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 4:04:46pm

re: #155 Summer

To suggest that I am posting it because I agree with the content is, in itself, way over the line for me as well.

Which I didn't do. Why on earth are you accusing me of having done that?

But if you start saying that I'm blind to the contents within, then you're either calling me an idiot or a racist bitch - neither accusation to which I shall take kindly.

Nope. I'm saying that using such vile imagery is something that should be approached with far more caution than you're using.

Take all the insult to that you will, but don't make up some idea that I'm saying you agree with it. I 'm not, and didn't, and have no fucking clue where you're pulling that out of.

Can you please explain that part? Where you get this idea I"m saying you agree with the image?

165 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 4:04:53pm

From the Onion, interviews on the street: “I’m very worried about a government shutdown. Then again, I’m also worried about the rise of Sharia law in Pensacola, FL, so you should take my fears with a grain of salt.”

166 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 4:07:17pm

re: #161 Killgore Trout

I appreciate you taking time to try to substantiate this.

I don't take anything from mondoweiss seriously tho. They say it was for no reason, but apparently he did something that merited banning under the rules, that's all. There are no wanton bans there, everything must be according to the rules. And unless someone can show otherwise, the rules against antisemites (and racists in general) have always been in place, unlike the rules against conspiracy theorists, who began to be banned on sight in 2009 (after the appropriate announcement about the change of the rules).

Again, it is easy to go to those old antisemitic posts and see that the users were banned, and that the comments section is always full of condemnation.

It may be that at one time there was a tide of antisemites registering to post their stuff. It doesn't mean that it's ever been tolerated.

So it's outright false to say that "they", meaning the DKos, used to post Nazi stuff like you showcased above.

167 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 4:10:14pm

re: #166 Sergey Romanov

And also, quick googling shows what Daud was banned for:

Daud said that the US had a "non functioning government whose sole aim was to promote colonialism in Palestine"

Aside from antisemitism, that's a conspiracy theory right there. Ban on sight.

168 Obdicut  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 4:14:17pm

Er, has anyone ever encountered a tangerine with a clear, jelly-like substance at the future that tastes like concentrated tangerine?

169 Summer Seale  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 4:14:35pm

re: #164 Obdicut

It was your entire accusatory tone.

If you aren't accusing me of it, then fine, and I apologize and I'll drop it now. I'm fairly exhausted from packing all day and I'd like to get some sleep.

I don't, however, think that I was incautious. You may think so, but I do not see it that way. I made a point with the graphic, and it was widely accepted and praised as the right one. It had the effect I wanted it to have which, in my book, qualified it as a success. Too bloody right that it was disturbing, but that was the entire point.

170 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 4:14:40pm

And I-P threads at DK are still pretty unreadable.

171 Killgore Trout  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 4:15:02pm

re: #166 Sergey Romanov
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

...and that's just a small sample. I could keep going but I suppose you already know that. They had a problem. They cleaned up. I applaud them for doing so but I don;t see the need to pretend there was no problem and no clean up. It happened.

172 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 4:18:30pm

re: #163 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm going to learn to make kubbeh.

Not knowing what kubbeh is sent me on a wiki chase :) Well, I do know them, never knew the name, but that lead off on a chase about all the differing types of Jewish cuisine and on and on and on...

I'm not sure which is a bigger fun time waster - wiki or tvtropes.

173 Obdicut  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 4:19:53pm

re: #169 Summer

It was your entire accusatory tone.

If you aren't accusing me of it, then fine, and I apologize and I'll drop it now. I'm fairly exhausted from packing all day and I'd like to get some sleep.

Yeah, judging by tone on the internet leads you into bad places.

What happened to 'avatars' when they were pointed out to Google is not comparable to what happened to Jews when they were pointed out to the Germans. On that level alone, it was a bad image to use. That the image also includes a stereotypical picture of a Jew-- something that is offensive on the face of it-- and that you didn't need that image to make your point but simply included it to give it more punch, takes it quite over the line of what I think is smart.

I don't, however, think that I was incautious. You may think so, but I do not see it that way. I made a point with the graphic, and it was widely accepted and praised as the right one.

I really don't care how many people liked it. I'm telling you I don't. Telling me a lot of other people did doesn't affect that.

It had the effect I wanted it to have which, in my book, qualified it as a success. Too bloody right that it was disturbing, but that was the entire point.

That logic could be used to justify anything, though.

174 Obdicut  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 4:21:19pm

re: #171 Killgore Trout

The first two of those I clicked had the responders vilifying the people who posted the articles, though. So... what as your point? That DKOS readers back then really didn't like anti-Semitic bullshit?

175 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 4:22:45pm

re: #171 Killgore Trout

Well, I don't see how this doesn't support what I wrote. Go to the very first link. Comments section. Read.

176 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 4:23:57pm

I'm glad that LGF cleaned up its act though.

177 Obdicut  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 4:24:59pm

re: #175 Sergey Romanov

In fact, Charles notes:

The antisemitic diaries just keep bubbling up from the base at Daily Kos; most of the Kidz have learned that it really doesn’t make them look very good when this sort of thing happens, so nowadays they jump out and denounce these eruptions of hate speech right away.

178 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 4:32:40pm

re: #177 Obdicut

Simply speaking, DKos' problem was "whack-a-mole", not tolerance of Nazis.

I notice in the other links some much less controversial materials and I disagree with their categorization under the "Protocols" rubric. Moreover, some of them may appear even today (e.g. the piece by Dana Houle), despite the alleged clean-up.

179 Summer Seale  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 4:46:20pm

re: #173 Obdicut

Since you can't leave well enough alone:

What happened to Blacks in the south in the 1950s was also not comparable, however close, to what happened to Jews in the 1930's in Germany, and yet I'd still say they are equivalent. I would also say that what happened to Matthew Shepard is not comparable to what happened to the entire Jewish people during the 1930's, but I'd still say that they are equivalent. What the Tea Party stands for, in a lot of cases, does not represent concentration camps and death marches, or even lynch mobs, but I'd still call them the Nazi assholes that they are - a position which I believe you agreed with in the past when I wrote it on more than one occasion.

And as for your apparent excusing the banality of it all, I'd like to see how you react if you were suddenly locked out of nearly ten years of private communications, your personal and/or business phone number, all of your family pictures and mementos online which you shared with your family and friends - which you were encouraged to upload and promised the safe keeping thereof, and even your address book in which you keep all of your contacts. Let's see how you keep your cool and watch what you say - all of it, mind you, because somebody merely accused you of being a Pseudonym, and they never gave you a chance to explain yourself, a person to talk to, or a contact in which to counter the charge that you did something wrong when you know you hadn't. Not to mention the hypocrisy of being accused of being a faceless person when the person who is "convicting" you is unnamed, faceless, and literally unapproachable.

I'd love to see how you handle that kind of a situation. I'd love to see how calm and cool and collected you remain. And I'd love to see just how specifically you refrain from hyperbole, or historical comparisons, on a baseless, bigoted, and ridiculous charge such as that.

Now I'm going to try to get some sleep.

180 Obdicut  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 4:53:25pm

re: #179 Summer

What happened to Blacks in the south in the 1950s was also not comparable, however close, to what happened to Jews in the 1930's in Germany, and yet I'd still say they are equivalent.

How are they not comparable, yet they're equivalent? I'm sorry, I don't get that.

What the Tea Party stands for, in a lot of cases, does not represent concentration camps and death marches, or even lynch mobs, but I'd still call them the Nazi assholes that they are - a position which I believe you agreed with in the past when I wrote it on more than one occasion.

No. The Tea Party are not Nazis. There are elements of proto-Nazi thinking in a lot of stuff espoused by the Tea Party-- and by the GOP as a whole. The stuff they do is very reminiscent of the early, early days of the fascist movement in Germany. Not the full flower of it.

And as for your apparent excusing the banality of it all, I'd like to see how you react if you were suddenly locked out of nearly ten years of private communications, your personal and/or business phone number, all of your family pictures and mementos online which you shared with your family and friends - which you were encouraged to upload and promised the safe keeping thereof, and even your address book in which you keep all of your contacts.

It'd suck, and be terrible, and yet not approach anything like what would have happened to a Jew under the Nazis.

And I'd love to see just how specifically you refrain from hyperbole, or historical comparisons, on a baseless, bigoted, and ridiculous charge such as that.

Um, okay. This is pretty untestable, but given my attitude about comparing things to the Nazis, I'd be very unlikely to do so, since I don't think it's a good comparison.

181 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 5:09:14pm

I've been following & dinging. I missed the first post about this graphic.

Who altered the original?

Disgusting is Breitbart's response. Just like the graphic.

182 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 5:43:38pm

re: #107 Obdicut

There was no need to use that graphic, and any time I see a stereotypical picture of a Jew like that it makes me flinch. Please don't use graphics that include stereotypes of Jews, unless you're specifically pointing out how stupid that stereotype was.

Would you use a stereotype of a black person to make your point?

Quite likely, yes.

And would dig in their heels just as tenaciously about it, too.

183 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 5:44:46pm

re: #155 Summer

No it's not. You asked if I would have used a stereotypical picture of a racist cartoon to make a point, and yes I would: if the point is to show that racism and bigotry is an ugly thing. If I'm going to call out some bigoted thing, it is perfectly acceptable. To suggest that I am posting it because I agree with the content is, in itself, way over the line for me as well. When have I ever displayed tendencies towards that sort of thing? To even suggest that I am obtuse to these caricatures, when you know how I feel about racism and bigotry in general since years, is really an insult. I told you: that cartoon was meant to portray what bigotry looks like, not that Jews look like that, or that it's right to declare them. I was, in fact, making a point of rejecting that sort of thinking. So I take it as a suggestion that I must be as racist as the contents of the picture, which I am not. I think it's fairly clear that I am not, have never been, and will never be.

As far as others agreeing with that use or not, that is another matter. But just saying that you don't think Google's policies are comparable bigotry is one thing. That's fine. Debate that all you want. But if you start saying that I'm blind to the contents within, then you're either calling me an idiot or a racist bitch - neither accusation to which I shall take kindly.

Once again: I am merely pointing out that there are legitimate uses of these sorts of things to point out bigotry when warranted. And I'm not the only one saying that. I think it was a legitimate use to call out a bigoted policy, and I stand by it:

1) Because Google admitted they had made grave mistakes in enforcing that policy and

2) Because it got a lot of positive responses from people all across the spectrum who completely understood the meaning instantly for what was intended.

I'm sorry if you can't see it that way, but don't remember anyone else who couldn't - other than people here. And I have a hell of a lot of Israelis, Jews, and Liberals in my circles who follow me because of my stances against anti-semitism and my ethics against bigotry in the world.

e_e

Some of everyone's best friends are...

184 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 5:50:27pm

re: #179 Summer

What happened to Blacks in the south in the 1950s was also not comparable, however close, to what happened to Jews in the 1930's in Germany, and yet I'd still say they are equivalent.

Please, just don't.

For supposed friends and allies like you, whose reference to the heaps and heaps of crap that happened to us in this country is somehow limited to "the south in the 1950s", my recommendation is to go take a community college class on American history, and then world history.

You should do this before using Nazi imagery in trying to point out the next company's flawed policies on avatars. Your sense of perspective is totally warped.

185 prairiefire  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 6:42:06pm

Are all offensive images off limits?

186 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 1:28:09am

.

187 Stephen T.  Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:57:50am

re: #42 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I believe that is a caricature of the actor William Conrad.


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