Palin: “This Year Is a Good Opportunity for Other Voices to Speak”

Just go on without me
Wingnuts • Views: 31,434

Sarah Palin puts a brave face on it:

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Former vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin will not speak at the Republican nominating convention in Tampa later this month, she said in statement on Sunday.

“This year is a good opportunity for other voices to speak at the convention and I’m excited to hear them,” Palin, who was Senator John McCain’s running mate in the 2008 election, said in a statement on Gretawire, the blog of Fox News’s Greta Van Susteren.

“Everything I said at the 2008 convention about then-candidate (Barack) Obama still stands today, and in fact the predictions made about the very unqualified and inexperienced community organizer’s plans to ‘fundamentally transform’ our country are unfortunately coming true,” Palin said.

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636 comments
1 Kragar  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:04:50pm
2 erik_t  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:05:47pm

Unexpectedly calm. I expected rhetorical bomb-throwing in more directions than at Obama.

3 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:06:06pm

Shut up. That this Ivana wanna be is still in the news, and making $$ off of reality tv makes me cry. BTW, did she ever prove she graduated? Transcripts from the 5 colleges, por favor.

4 darthstar  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:06:21pm

There's still time for Mitt to flip-flop and invite her. Just wait until he reads the hate mail from his base.

5 jamesfirecat  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:07:04pm

"Everything I said at the 2008 convention about then-candidate (Barack) Obama still stands today"

Including any comments about how he was inexperienced? Because I'm willing to bet you don't get much better experience on your resume for being president than "was president for the last 4 years".

6 Jaerik  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:08:15pm

Her job is incredibly easy, isn't it? It's like Mad Libs.

7 darthstar  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:08:36pm

re: #5 jamesfirecat

"Everything I said at the 2008 convention about then-candidate (Barack) Obama still stands today"

Including any comments about how he was inexperienced? Because I'm willing to bet you don't get much better experience on your resume for being president than "was president for the last 4 years".

this

8 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:09:41pm

It will be a happy day when she is only the answer to a trivia question. She says hearing Obama speaks makes her nauseous. That's how I feel when I read about her and her desperate act to stay relevant. To steal from Frank McCourt, Fitzgerald was wrong, there are second acts in American life and failed VP candidate Sarah Palin shows that all the time.

9 jaunte  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:09:47pm
"...the predictions made about the very unqualified and inexperienced community organizer's plans to 'fundamentally transform' our country are unfortunately coming true."

More sick people are keeping their insurance coverage despite pre-existing conditions. It's just terrible.

10 darthstar  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:10:38pm

re: #9 jaunte

More sick people are keeping their insurance coverage despite pre-existing conditions. It's just terrible.

She was talking about his being black.

11 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:11:08pm

Translation, if we lose I won't catch the blame again. The base will believe they didn't nominate someone conservative enough while I go on collecting speaking fees and sniping from the sidelines, positioning myself for 2016.

12 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:11:17pm

re: #5 jamesfirecat

"Everything I said at the 2008 convention about then-candidate (Barack) Obama still stands today"

Including any comments about how he was inexperienced? Because I'm willing to bet you don't get much better experience on your resume for being president than "was president for the last 4 years".

Heh touche. She's probably still delusional enough to think that she's more qualified than him and Biden. Really though. Can you imagine her as VP or heaven forbid president if McCain had died. She'd be alienating every leader in the world. I saw how Romney pissed off the British PM. She'd be doing that with everyone and on a regular basis.

13 darthstar  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:11:37pm

Paul Ryan has a bigger one than Mitt Romney (American flag lapel pin)

14 danhenry1  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:11:58pm

OT. Eric Idle, still great.

15 darthstar  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:12:23pm

Romney: "I'm a policy guy, believe it or not."

Okay, I choose not.

16 Lidane  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:13:08pm

The Freeper reactions are predictable:

Not too good. This should change. LOVE YA SARAH!
---

She won’t speak but McCain will. That’s real forward looking.
Insert eyeroll here.
---

Classy lady ... too bad they won’t let her speak — afraid she’ll outshine them, probably.
---

The GOP-Es will soon be promoting Ryan as the real future of the Republican Party. I say "Not so fast". It remains to be seen how he and his family will respond to the sh!t storm that will be coming his way. He may or may not be up to it.
Meanwhile, Governor Palin will support the top of the ticket, but she won't be campaigning for it. Mark my word, she will own the undercard and will be the de facto leader of the party, regardless of what the establishment tries to say.
---

Nowhere in her statement does Palin say she will not speak.

The headline and the lead are shoddy BS from Reuters hacks.
---

She is always so gracious and has worked hard as hell to save this nation.
---

Sarah always takes the high road.
She instinctively knows which path is the right one.
So many could learn from her but they feel threatened by her insight and strength.
---

She wasn’t invited. All told, I think she’s being quite gracious about having been slapped in the face.

She has been very enthusiastic about Ryan and endorsed both of them yesterday.

She was the VP candidate the last time around, after all, and they should at least be courteous and invite her.

That said, members of polygamist sects have problems dealing with independent women, and I think Romney is displaying this and should reassess his behavior right now. He’d do himself a serious favor by asking her to speak, and if nothing else, he should remember that she has a lot of devoted followers and he doesn’t, so he needs them.

17 Tigger2  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:14:24pm

“This year is a good opportunity for other voices to speak at the convention and I’m excited to hear them,”

So in other words she wasn't asked to speak or was given a time slot that was unacceptable to her.

18 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:14:25pm

Every move Mitt Romney makes is dictated by the GOP establishment. They're moving into the etch-a-sketch phase now, and Sarah got the memo.

19 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:14:30pm

re: #13 darthstar

Paul Ryan has a bigger one than Mitt Romney (American flag lapel pin)

Admit it, Darthstar; you've got a mad crush on Paul Ryan. You wish he were gay so that he could enrapture you with his perfect chiseled torso and his big "flag pin/pole".

/What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

20 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:15:50pm

re: #16 Lidane

The Freeper reactions are predictable:

Image: 20120727_cruzpalin_jjh001.jpg

She is always so gracious and has worked hard as hell to save this nation.
---

21 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:16:00pm

re: #17 Tigger2

“This year is a good opportunity for other voices to speak at the convention and I’m excited to hear them,”

So in other words she wasn't asked to speak or was given a time slot that was unacceptable to her.

Perhaps she was told she wouldn't be allowed a prime-time slot.

22 darthstar  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:16:16pm

re: #19 Dark_Falcon

Admit it, Darthstar; you've got a mad crush on Paul Ryan. You wish he were gay so that he could enrapture you with his perfect chiseled torso and his big "flag pin/pole".

/What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

You're pretty good with the gay fantasy stuff...you must be an evangelical Christian.

23 Sheila Broflovski  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:16:29pm

Sarah Palin is like so totally over, she belongs way down with "Dr" Laura at the retirement home for irrelevants in Hasbeenland.

24 engineer cat  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:17:22pm

This Year Is a Good Opportunity for

...you to shut up

25 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:17:29pm

re: #22 darthstar

You're pretty good with the gay fantasy stuff...you must be an evangelical Christian.

Hey, I'm only using the sort of material you aimed at me. Figured you'd get a kick out of it.

26 darthstar  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:18:14pm

At one of the strip clubs in Tampa, the "Sarah Palin" look alike will actually be Sarah Palin (she always finds a way to get money from the base).

27 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:18:34pm

re: #20 Stanley Sea

Image: 20120727_cruzpalin_jjh001.jpg

Gracious? To steal from Mitt, that's not a word I would say. Really, when is she ever gracious? When she's using her children as a means to attack the president. Calling him a terrorist sympathizer or accusing him of supporting death panels. Yeah, gracious is not in Sarah Palin's vocabulary. Of course, these are the same people who will tell us that Sarah Palin is smart and speaks "common sense."

28 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:18:54pm

re: #25 Dark_Falcon

Hey, I'm only using the sort of material you aimed at me. Figured you'd get a kick out of it.

Your hero Ryan voted to ban gays and lesbians from adopting. Do you still hold that same position? It's pretty fucking disgusting is why I ask.

29 Sheila Broflovski  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:19:38pm

re: #26 darthstar

At one of the strip clubs in Tampa, the "Sarah Palin" look alike will actually be Sarah Palin (she always finds a way to get money from the base).

Bryan Fischer will go for the transvestite BDSM Sarah Palin

30 jaunte  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:19:43pm

re: #16 Lidane

So many could learn from her but they feel threatened by her insight and strength.

Lol.

31 darthstar  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:19:51pm

re: #25 Dark_Falcon

Hey, I'm only using the sort of material you aimed at me. Figured you'd get a kick out of it.

It's a positive sign, I'll admit. Good to see you getting away from the homophobia.

32 Tigger2  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:20:17pm

re: #21 Targetpractice

Perhaps she was told she wouldn't be allowed a prime-time slot.

That's prob what it was. If she was offered a prime time slot I don't think anyone could keep her away.

33 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:20:28pm

I can't imagine that the reception for McCain is gonna be all that warm at the convention. Those that don't blame hate him for being to "liberal" in '08 hate him for being too "wingnut" in '10.

34 darthstar  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:21:41pm

Okay, that was a pathetic interview with Bob Scheiffer. Romney looked like a deer in headlights, and Ryan looked like he wished he had his bow with him.

35 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:21:45pm

re: #27 HappyWarrior

Gracious? To steal from Mitt, that's not a word I would say. Really, when is she ever gracious? When she's using her children as a means to attack the president. Calling him a terrorist sympathizer or accusing him of supporting death panels. Yeah, gracious is not in Sarah Palin's vocabulary. Of course, these are the same people who will tell us that Sarah Palin is smart and speaks "common sense."

Agreed. Her endorsement of Ryan on FB didn't mention Ryan, well barely, but spent multiple paragraphs spouting the rw dribble against the commander in chief. She is a very hateful person. Some day someone (megan mccain et al) will have the balls to stand up to her. That they don't, is extremely scary. They are beholden to HER?

36 Gus  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:22:02pm

I look forward to the day when this simpleton, Sarah Palin, and her daughter, Bristol, no longer pollute the public dialogue with their insipid, trite, yammering. Maybe they can get a job doing voice overs for childrens' cartoons.

37 Kragar  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:22:07pm

re: #29 Learned Mother of Zion

Bryan Fischer will go for the transvestite BDSM Sarah Palin

ITS RESEARCH!!!!

38 darthstar  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:22:53pm

re: #34 darthstar

Okay, that was a pathetic interview with Bob Scheiffer. Romney looked like a deer in headlights, and Ryan looked like he wished he had his bow with him.

Okay...that was tweet-worthy (not that that's saying anything)

39 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:23:19pm

re: #36 Gus

I look forward to the day when this simpleton, Sarah Palin, and her daughter, Bristol, no longer pollute the public dialogue with their insipid, trite, yammering. Maybe they can get a job doing voice overs for childrens' cartoons.

SHUT UP FAGGOT

40 Gus  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:23:37pm

re: #34 darthstar

Okay, that was a pathetic interview with Bob Scheiffer. Romney looked like a deer in headlights, and Ryan looked like he wished he had his bow with him.

Nice. Hope they have the time to ask Ryan what his favorite magazines are.

41 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:23:51pm

re: #35 Stanley Sea

Agreed. Her endorsement of Ryan on FB didn't mention Ryan, well barely, but spent multiple paragraphs spouting the rw dribble against the commander in chief. She is a very hateful person. Some day someone (megan mccain et al) will have the balls to stand up to her. That they don't, is extremely scary. They are beholden to HER?

Her oldest daughter is just as bad. I really try not to attack politicians' children. I never really judged Bush's daughters for underaged drinking because I knew I would engage in such a thing at a college level and they were of course not mean spirited like Bristol is. I think one of the few Republicans I've seen actually have the guts to tell Palin off is Barbara Bush.

42 darthstar  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:25:09pm

re: #39 Stanley Sea

SHUT UP FAGGOT

I loved it when Bugs Bunny said that to Elmer Fudd.

43 Tigger2  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:25:34pm

re: #16 Lidane

The Freeper reactions are predictable:

"Sarah always takes the high road."

That part of one of the comments really made me laugh, Palin doesn't even know where the high road is.

44 Gus  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:26:24pm

re: #39 Stanley Sea

SHUT UP FAGGOT

Bristol?

//

45 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:26:26pm

The thing regarding Palin that has struck me is how it almost comes across as she feels Obama personally wronged her. As I recall, he was certainly critical of her ideologically but I thought it was classy and something she would never do when he was asked about her daughter's pregnancy. Obama pointed out that he was the child of a teen mother too. Really if Sasha or Malia were Bristol's age and got pregnant, teh right wingers in the media would have used it as proof of why liberals have bad values and are bad parents. I have no doubt about that whatsoever.

46 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:26:32pm

re: #43 Tigger2

"Sarah always takes the high road."

That part of one of the comments really made me laugh, Palin doesn't even know where the high road is.

"Roads? Where we're going we don't need...roads."

47 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:26:44pm

re: #43 Tigger2

"Sarah always takes the high road."

That part of one of the comments really made me laugh, Palin doesn't even know where the high road is.

All she knows is the assault via vitriol highway with the victim side road.

48 jamesfirecat  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:26:51pm

re: #43 Tigger2

"Sarah always takes the high road."

That part of one of the comments really made me laugh, Palin doesn't even know where the high road is.

The high road... isn't that what you take if you want to get back to Scotland but aren't worried about spending too much time on the journey?

49 Sheila Broflovski  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:26:57pm

re: #43 Tigger2

"Sarah always takes the high road."

That part of one of the comments really made me laugh, Palin doesn't even know where the high road is.

She thinks that's where you go to buy weed.

50 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:27:03pm

re: #44 Gus

Bristol?

//

Tripp, the kid.

51 Gus  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:27:24pm

re: #47 Stanley Sea

All she knows is the assault via vitriol highway with the victim side road.

All from the palm of her hand.

52 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:27:26pm

re: #43 Tigger2

"Sarah always takes the high road."

That part of one of the comments really made me laugh, Palin doesn't even know where the high road is.

Sure she does, its where she goes to shoot mountain goats.

/Palin as hunter line, it just crept in there.

53 b_sharp  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:28:08pm

Penis.

54 Gus  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:28:24pm

Vagina.

55 Sheila Broflovski  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:28:31pm

re: #53 b_sharp

Penis.

Mightier than thesword.

56 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:28:47pm

re: #51 Gus

All from the palm of her hand.

L O L. Remember that? The Tea Party Convention.

OMG, we cannot forget this shit.

57 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:28:48pm

RCP average spread just upticked to Obama +4.7.

58 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:29:05pm

re: #50 Stanley Sea

Tripp, the kid.

Well, his father is Levi Johnson. So its not surprising he's got some asshole in him. Hopefully his mother can get him past that.

59 darthstar  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:30:10pm

re: #58 Dark_Falcon

Well, his father is Levi Johnson. So its not surprising he's got some asshole in him. Hopefully his mother can get him past that.

Except he's being raised by his mother. Nurture, not nature, is why he's a young bigot.

60 Gus  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:30:15pm

re: #56 Stanley Sea

L O L. Remember that? The Tea Party Convention.

OMG, we cannot forget this shit.

My ears are still ringing from her last speech. Yikes. They need to turn down the treble on her. Always screaming.

61 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:30:20pm

re: #58 Dark_Falcon

Well, his father is Levi Johnson. So its not surprising he's got some asshole in him. Hopefully his mother can get him past that.

Well it was his mother that called a guy a fag not Levi. Levi's a jerk, don't get me wrong but I haven't seen anything in his character that suggests he's a homophobe like I have with Bristol.

62 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:30:53pm

re: #57 goddamnedfrank

RCP average spread just upticked to Obama +4.7.

It went up? That's never a good sign if you're Romney. I think even Palin gave McCain an uptick.

63 Kragar  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:31:19pm

re: #58 Dark_Falcon

Well, his father is Levi Johnson. So its not surprising he's got some asshole in him. Hopefully his mother can get him past that.

Yeah, I don't think that is going to work out the way you think.

64 jamesfirecat  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:31:41pm

re: #57 goddamnedfrank

RCP average spread just upticked to Obama +4.7.

Clearly this is good news for John McCain Mitt Romney.

65 Gus  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:31:53pm

Panic!

66 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:31:57pm

re: #58 Dark_Falcon

Well, his father is Levi Johnson. So its not surprising he's got some asshole in him. Hopefully his mother can get him past that.

His mother taught him to say faggot. Or fuck, as was her story to cover it up.

puleeze.

67 Tigger2  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:32:00pm

re: #52 Dark_Falcon

Sure she does, its where she goes to shoot mountain goats.

/Palin as hunter line, it just crept in there.

I thought she only did that from a helicopter or plane, I'm so behind the times. lol

68 darthstar  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:32:02pm

re: #63 Kragar

Yeah, I don't think that is going to work out the way you think.

Levi's undereducated, but he's not an asshole.

69 Kragar  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:33:03pm

re: #68 darthstar

Levi's undereducated, but he's not an asshole.

I was referring to the mother's influence.

70 Gus  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:33:15pm

re: #57 goddamnedfrank

RCP average spread just upticked to Obama +4.7.

Clearly Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan aren't "generic Republicans."

//

71 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:33:40pm

re: #62 HappyWarrior

It went up? That's never a good sign.

The GOP shouldn't worry yet. News of Ryan's awesome ball scratching skills hasn't had time to sink in.

72 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:34:19pm

re: #56 Stanley Sea

L O L. Remember that? The Tea Party Convention.

OMG, we cannot forget this shit.

Best part of that whole incident was she had "tax cuts" written on her palm. Really you have to cheat to remember that Tea Partiers want lower taxes? I still think her most pathetic moment was when she couldn't even give Katie Couric a straight answer on what magazines she read. And then she cried about Katie asking her gotcha questions.

73 jaunte  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:34:48pm

Our amicable, courteous political history:

1941. "Billboard in Windber, Pennsylvania." Republican political sentiment from the 1940 presidential campaign, annotated by passers-by.
[Link: www.shorpy.com...]

(view full size for graffitti)

74 darthstar  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:35:05pm

re: #67 Tigger2

I thought she only did that from a helicopter or plane, I'm so behind the times. lol

The one time she killed a caribou, she took five shots and it never moved (leading me to conclude it was drugged up for the photo-shoot)...I grew up hunting game. A second shot at a standing animal was a very rare occurrence...a third never happened. Which is why you practice so you can hit on the first shot.

75 SpaceJesus  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:35:16pm

found this at kos

Image: S17Sx.jpg

76 Gus  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:35:21pm

re: #70 Gus

Clearly Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan aren't "generic Republicans."

//

Paul Ryan not Paul Romney. I wonder if that's some kind of Freudian slip.

77 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:36:28pm

re: #75 SpaceJesus

found this at kos

Image: S17Sx.jpg

Hey now, that's an insult to two good-looking, intelligent, charismatic men! How dare they compare Dukat and Weyoun to those losers?!

//

78 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:36:41pm

I heard from many people who have more experience than I do with firearms that she looked very forced and inexperienced with them. Nothing wrong with that but I always did think the folksy image of her was overdone especially knowing now that her and her oldest daughters love the benefits of celebrity.

79 darthstar  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:37:38pm

re: #78 HappyWarrior

I heard from many people who have more experience than I do with firearms that she looked very forced and inexperienced with them. Nothing wrong with that but I always did think the folksy image of her was overdone especially knowing now that her and her oldest daughters love the benefits of celebrity.

She closed her eyes when she shot. Yes, she comes from a family of hunters, but no, she's not used to pulling the trigger.

80 Tigger2  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:37:48pm

re: #74 darthstar

The one time she killed a caribou, she took five shots and it never moved (leading me to conclude it was drugged up for the photo-shoot)...I grew up hunting game. A second shot at a standing animal was a very rare occurrence...a third never happened. Which is why you practice so you can hit on the first shot.

re: #74 darthstar

The one time she killed a caribou, she took five shots and it never moved (leading me to conclude it was drugged up for the photo-shoot)...I grew up hunting game. A second shot at a standing animal was a
very rare occurrence...a third never happened. Which is why you practice so you can hit on the first shot.

I saw that part of the show I agree it had setup written all over it.

81 compound_Idaho  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:38:44pm

The Olympic closing ceremonies are just terrible. Just stop it already.

82 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:38:47pm

re: #79 darthstar

She closed her eyes when she shot. Yes, she comes from a family of hunters, but no, she's not used to pulling the trigger.

She probably felt nervous. That's how I felt when I went target shooting for the first and only time with a friend in New Mexico this winter. I always thought the whole gun posing for political photo-ops was lame.

83 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:39:06pm

Well, it's good to know that the GOP's more stringent about how many tax returns you have to fork over to be considered for VP than they think the American public is:

Paul Ryan: I Gave Romney ‘Several’ Tax Returns, Will Release Two

84 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:39:49pm

re: #83 Targetpractice

Well, it's good to know that the GOP's more stringent about how many tax returns you have to fork over to be considered for VP than they think the American public is:

Paul Ryan: I Gave Romney ‘Several’ Tax Returns, Will Release Two

Gotta love that transparency from Frick and Frack.

85 erik_t  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:40:13pm

re: #81 compound_Idaho

The Olympic closing ceremonies are just terrible. Just stop it already.

Tripping balls. Utterly unhinged from reality.

86 compound_Idaho  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:40:21pm

re: #81 compound_Idaho

The Olympic closing ceremonies are just terrible. Just stop it already.

Let's get back to old school. Well not naked wrestling, but at least athletic competition.

87 Gus  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:40:32pm

Creepy...

88 darthstar  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:41:06pm

re: #82 HappyWarrior

She probably felt nervous. That's how I felt when I went target shooting for the first and only time with a friend in New Mexico this winter. I always thought the whole gun posing for political photo-ops was lame.

Of course she was nervous...she isn't really a hunter. She just lives around a lot of them. There's no shame in that, but her pretending to be a hunter was just stupid.

89 compound_Idaho  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:43:44pm

Ryan Hall quit in the middle of the race? Man up and finish or let the #4 qualifier take your place.

90 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:43:45pm

Seriously, what kind of bigoted goddamned piece of worthless trash votes to ban gays and lesbians from adopting children? I mean, you'd have to be some kind of epic level, miserable little hate filled git to think kids are better off in orphanages than having loving parents who happen to be gay. A person would have to be a purely pathetic gutless ponce to vote for such a worthless turd of a human being, am I right?

91 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:44:06pm

re: #88 darthstar

Of course she was nervous...she isn't really a hunter. She just lives around a lot of them. There's no shame in that, but her pretending to be a hunter was just stupid.

Well she wouldn't be the first and I doubt she'd be the last. I remember the photo-ops of John Kerry in 2004 and Mitt Romney in 2008. It looked so fake and forced.

92 Kragar  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:45:21pm

And to wrap up, they should have Blackadder tell the audience to bugger off and go home.

93 jaunte  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:45:52pm

re: #90 goddamnedfrank

you'd have to be some kind of epic level, miserable little hate filled git to think kids are better off in orphanages than having loving parents who happen to be gay

Yes.

94 darthstar  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:45:57pm

Ryan gave Romney several years of returns to review, but he'll only release two years to the public.

95 jamesfirecat  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:46:09pm

re: #77 Targetpractice

Hey now, that's an insult to two good-looking, intelligent, charismatic men! How dare they compare Dukat and Weyoun to those losers?!

//

Weyoun is intelligent and Charismatic? Isn't he little more than lickspittle to the founders doing whatever they tell him to and ordering around drugged up toadies?

96 Only The Lurker Knows  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:46:49pm

re: #81 compound_Idaho

Did you catch this link on the last thread?

Idaho Fires.

97 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:47:00pm

re: #95 jamesfirecat

Weyoun is intelligent and Charismatic? Isn't he little more than lickspittle to the founders doing whatever they tell him to and ordering around drugged up toadies?

Well yes, but he could do it with style!

//

98 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:47:05pm

re: #90 goddamnedfrank

Seriously, what kind of bigoted goddamned piece of worthless trash votes to ban gays and lesbians from adopting children? I mean, you'd have to be some kind of epic level, miserable little hate filled git to think kids are better off in orphanages than having loving parents who happen to be gay. A person would have to be a purely pathetic gutless ponce to vote for such a worthless turd of a human being, am I right?

I love how the Log Cabin and GOProud is trying to sell Ryan as pro GLBT rights. Let's see:
1.) He voted for the ban on gay adoption which you already underscored.
2.) He's voted for every federal ban on gay marriage so he differs from McCain who had voted against such a bill.
3.) He voted to upheld DADT.
The only not anti gay item in his record is supporting ENDA but other than that Ryan's just as miserably anti gay as the rest of them.

99 darthstar  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:47:36pm
100 dragonath  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:48:13pm

re: #87 Gus

I remember watching Wolf Blitzer back when the Olympic Commitee was making the decision and he was giving Obama a hard time for nominating Chicago, because it's so full of crime, etc...

I thought it was funny since Rio is like, the crime capitol of the Southern Hemisphere.

101 Gus  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:48:18pm

Dear Mitt Romney:

London called. They "pulled it off."

Sincerely,

Me

102 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:49:09pm

re: #99 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Hey don't be disrespecting Drudge, it's not part of he lamestream media and Mitt gets his new from it. Oh and Obama could do what Reagan did in 1984 and Fox News would still try to twist it to be that the American people don't like or trust him.

103 jaunte  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:49:38pm

re: #90 goddamnedfrank

"...in 2007 Ryan voted against a bill that would have made sexual orientation and gender identity hate crimes stand alone offenses. In 2009 Ryan voted against the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd Jr. Hate Crimes Protection Act, which expanded federal hate crime laws to include attacks on the LGBT community. In 2010 Ryan voted against the repeal of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell." In May, following President Barack Obama’s endorsement of marriage equality, Ryan voted for a bill that would prevent the Department of Justice from arguing against the constitutionality of the Defense of Marriage Act.

Ryan also favors a ban on same-sex couples’ ability to adopt children in D.C.

According to the Human Rights Campaign’s congressional scorecard, Ryan received a 0 percent for his positions on gay rights' legislation in the 111th Congress."
[Link: www.metroweekly.com...]

Bryan Fischer gives him an A.

104 Gus  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:49:59pm

re: #102 HappyWarrior

Hey don't be disrespecting Drudge, it's not part of he lamestream media and Mitt gets his new from it. Oh and Obama could do what Reagan did in 1984 and Fox News would still try to twist it to be that the American people don't like or trust him.

Drudge.

It's "just links."

//

105 compound_Idaho  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:50:19pm

re: #94 darthstar

Ryan gave Romney several years of returns to review, but he'll only release two years to the public.

[Embedded content]

Obama has become multimillionaire off of "public service" and the Mrs. job at the hospital.

106 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:50:34pm

re: #100 Fred Galt

I remember watching Wolf Blitzer back when the Olympic Commitee was making the decision and he was giving Obama a hard time for nominating Chicago, because it's so full of crime, etc...

I thought it was funny since Rio is like, the crime capitol of the Southern Hemisphere.

Didn't some of the wingnuts try to mount an effort to stop Chicago from getting the games because they wanted to do everything possible to do something that would disappoint Obama. That my friends is ODS. It'd be like me deciding to hate baseball because George W. Bush is also af an.

107 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:50:45pm

What I'm saying is that Paul Ryan is an absolutely atrocious human being.

108 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:51:22pm

re: #107 goddamnedfrank

What I'm saying is that Paul Ryan is an absolutely atrocious human being.

You'll get no argument from me there, Frank. And he's dishonest too.

109 jaunte  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:51:37pm

re: #105 compound_Idaho

And the books he wrote.

110 compound_Idaho  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:51:45pm

The closing ceremony is awful. WTF They should just skip it.

111 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:52:09pm

re: #105 compound_Idaho

Obama has become multimillionaire off of "public service" and the Mrs. job at the hospital.

Obama became a multi millionaire off of private book sales, any other assertion is a lie.

112 erik_t  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:52:10pm

re: #101 Gus

Dear Mitt Romney:

London called. They "pulled it off."

Sincerely,

Me

If Romney could retroactively cancel this ceremony, I might vote for him.

/

113 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:52:35pm

re: #105 compound_Idaho

Obama has become multimillionaire off of "public service" and the Mrs. job at the hospital.

And how did the Ryan family make theirs?

114 b_sharp  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:54:00pm

It isn't who you know...

115 Gus  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:54:12pm

re: #113 Targetpractice

And how did the Ryan family make theirs?

Royalties from when he played Eddie Munster in "The Munsters."

116 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:54:24pm

re: #8 HappyWarrior

It will be a happy day when she is only the answer to a trivia question. She says hearing Obama speaks makes her nauseous. That's how I feel when I read about her and her desperate act to stay relevant. To steal from Frank McCourt, Fitzgerald was wrong, there are second acts in American life and failed VP candidate Sarah Palin shows that all the time.

I never understood why Fitzgerald said that. We are a nation of self-reinventors and promoters.

117 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:54:43pm

re: #10 darthstar

She was talking about his being black.

He's still black.

I don't know how he expects to get anything done like that.

118 Gus  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:55:32pm

Ooh, ooh!

Wingnut splodey heads on the horizon!

119 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:56:11pm

re: #12 HappyWarrior

Heh touche. She's probably still delusional enough to think that she's more qualified than him and Biden. Really though. Can you imagine her as VP or heaven forbid president if McCain had died. She'd be alienating every leader in the world. I saw how Romney pissed off the British PM. She'd be doing that with everyone and on a regular basis.

Unbriefable. That's her problem. Someone who will never believe that her gut instinct is better than the real information being presented by a wonk from State.

Now, sometimes, a good president or SecState or what have you needs to have that ability to say, "My gut is better," and go with it. But not EVERY DAMN TIME, ABOUT EVERYTHING.

120 compound_Idaho  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:56:54pm

re: #111 goddamnedfrank

Obama became a multi millionaire off of private book sales, any other assertion is a lie.

Great book too!

121 jaunte  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:57:01pm

re: #118 Gus

Just headline it "Soros to Wed Bolton" and stand back.

122 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:57:48pm

re: #116 SanFranciscoZionist

I never understood why Fitzgerald said that. We are a nation of self-reinventors and promoters.

Yeah, I know, that' why I always liked McCourt's retort. First book published at 66. And then there's Christopher Plummer who recently won his first Oscar.

123 dragonath  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:57:48pm

re: #98 HappyWarrior

You hear these guys saying they vote against hate crime bills because of important, principled reasons, but at the end of the day they're just haters.

124 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 7:58:43pm

Personally think it a grand contrast, a President and VP who worked their way up from middle class beginnings to greatest versus two little princes who were born to the purple and haven't known hardship since.

125 Gus  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:00:22pm

Here's something to think about. Right now Mitt Romney is running on Paul Ryan. Obama on the other hand isn't really running on Joe Biden. Mitt Romney is a nobody in conservative world without Paul Ryan.

126 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:00:29pm

re: #123 Fred Galt

You hear these guys saying they vote against hate crime bills because of important, principled reasons, but at the end of the day they're just haters.

Yeah you hear crap like "all crime is hate." The most pathetic though are those like Frank is talking about. It takes a special scumbag to tell a gay couple that they should be prohibited from adopting. My brother was talking some stupid shit last night during dinner about how he thought being adopted by a gay couple would influence someone's sexuality and other dumb generalizations.

127 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:00:32pm

For a Heartwarming Break, I offer the following:

Mother dog rescues her puppies from burning house, places them on fire truck

There's little a mother wouldn't do to save her babies, and that includes rescuing them one-by-one from a house fire.

Photos of a dog in Chile apparently carrying all five of her 10-day-old puppies from a burning house then placing them in the back of a fire truck made the rounds on social media Saturday.

Chilean newspaper Soy Chile said the mother dog, named Amanda, and all but one of her puppies survived the blaze.

128 JamesWI  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:02:38pm

Holy fucking shit, Breaking Bad......

129 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:02:45pm

re: #126 HappyWarrior

Yeah you hear crap like "all crime is hate." The most pathetic though are those like Frank is talking about. It takes a special scumbag to tell a gay couple that they should be prohibited from adopting. My brother was talking some stupid shit last night during dinner about how he thought being adopted by a gay couple would influence someone's sexuality and other dumb generalizations.

Did you ask him how, if the home environment you live in influences your sexuality, heterosexual households can produce gay children?

130 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:03:18pm

re: #124 Targetpractice

Personally think it a grand contrast, a President and VP who worked their way up from middle class beginnings to greatest versus two little princes who were born to the purple and haven't known hardship since.

I think Ryan's upbringing was more middle class if I am not mistaken. Mitt definitely is a self styled prince who should have been the target of the born on third and thinks he hit a triple comment. At least the original person who made that comment had the balls to sign up for a war he supported and became the youngest Navy fighter pilot.

131 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:04:55pm

re: #130 HappyWarrior

I think Ryan's upbringing was more middle class if I am not mistaken. Mitt definitely is a self styled prince who should have been the target of the born on third and thinks he hit a triple comment. At least the original person who made that comment had the balls to sign up for a war he supported and became the youngest Navy fighter pilot.

Ryan's sum total of job experience was a McDonald's job in high school and a job driving the Weinermobile in college. And part of the reason he went to college at all is because momma kept all the Social Security survivors benefit checks in a savings account until he graduated high school. He went straight from high school into politics and has been there ever since.

132 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:06:51pm

re: #131 Targetpractice

Ryan's sum total of job experience was a McDonald's job in high school and a job driving the Weinermobile in college. And part of the reason he went to college at all is because momma kept all the Social Security survivors benefit checks in a savings account until he graduated high school. He went straight from high school into politics and has been there ever since.

Ah gotcha. Fair point then.

133 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:08:03pm

Also the Ryan family owns a construction business, which has been kept fat and healthy on a steady diet of government contracts.

134 Gus  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:08:37pm

re: #133 Targetpractice

Also the Ryan family owns a construction business, which has been kept fat and healthy on a steady diet of government contracts.

No way! Seriously?

//

135 Gus  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:09:11pm

Wait a minute. All in all Paul Ryan's success is due in large part because of...

...drumroll please...

GOVERNMENT!

136 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:09:43pm

re: #135 Gus

Wait a minute. All in all Paul Ryan's success is due in large part because of...

...drumroll please...

GOVERNMENT!

Shh, don't let the wingnuts hear you say that, they still want to believe he's all for small government.

//

137 Gus  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:09:55pm

See. I used to word success to describe Paul Ryan which means I'm being magnanimous.

//

138 Gus  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:12:51pm

Miami University (informally known as Miami, Miami U, Miami of Ohio, and MU) is a coeducational public research university located in Oxford, Ohio...

...Ryan.

139 Gus  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:13:33pm

More government work for the Ryan family...

Ryan's grandfather was appointed U.S. Attorney for Western Wisconsin by then-President Calvin Coolidge.

140 Gus  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:14:08pm

re: #139 Gus

More government work for the Ryan family...

Ryan's grandfather was appointed U.S. Attorney for Western Wisconsin by then-President Calvin Coolidge.

...Joseph A. Craig High School is a public secondary school located in the city of Janesville, Wisconsin...

141 Gus  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:15:06pm

Trying to say there's no government involved in any of this is like me trying to say that religion hasn't had an influence on me -- even as an atheist.

142 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:16:07pm

re: #133 Targetpractice

Also the Ryan family owns a construction business, which has been kept fat and healthy on a steady diet of government contracts.

He could use that, to come back at Obama with: "As for my family, yes we did build that!"

/Come on, at least admit it's clever.

143 engineer cat  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:16:08pm

re: #135 Gus

Wait a minute. All in all Paul Ryan's success is due in large part because of...

...drumroll please...

GOVERNMENT!

ryan's social security plan "combines a more realistic measure of growth in Social Security’s initial benefits, with an eventual modernization of the retirement age"

so would he still have been able to afford his "socialized" tuition money if his mother had been saving a "more realistic" or "modernized" amount?

144 sagehen  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:16:38pm

I wonder how much Mitt paid her to be graceful about not getting the podium.

145 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:16:45pm

re: #142 Dark_Falcon

He could use that, to come back at Obama with: "As for my family, yes we did build that!"

/Come on, at least admit it's clever.

It is that, I'll admit.

146 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:16:56pm

re: #129 Targetpractice

Did you ask him how, if the home environment you live in influences your sexuality, heterosexual households can produce gay children?

Well the whole damn thing started because he claimed that estrogen in meat was making people gay. He's a CT nut. Should have mentioned that but anyhow to that I told him that it seems there are more gay people because this is the most accepting time of homosexuality in our history. To that comment though, I had to remind him of the countless gay people who are products of households that are far from gay friendly. He's a weird nut so I take him seriously as I do Alex Jones. I trust my 11 year old kid brother's political observations more because he uses logic and observation to back up how he feels rather than just hearing some talking head online tell him something.

147 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:16:58pm

re: #139 Gus

More government work for the Ryan family...

Ryan's grandfather was appointed U.S. Attorney for Western Wisconsin by then-President Calvin Coolidge.

Calvin "the business of government is business" Coolidge huh? The fascist roots run deep.

148 Gus  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:17:38pm

re: #147 goddamnedfrank

Calvin "the business of government is business" Coolidge huh? The fascist roots run deep.

I would have put it differently.

//

149 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:18:29pm

re: #144 sagehen

I wonder how much Mitt paid her to be graceful about not getting the podium.

Not enough to bother him. He's got enough to make a million dollar payoff out of ready funds.

150 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:18:32pm

It does seem for a Rand follower that Ryan has had a lot of help from old Mr. Federal Government a lot in his life.

151 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:19:37pm

re: #143 engineer cat

ryan's social security plan "combines a more realistic measure of growth in Social Security’s initial benefits, with an eventual modernization of the retirement age"

so would he still have been able to afford his "socialized" tuition money if his mother had been saving a "more realistic" or "modernized" amount?

On another board, one of the "small government" types wondered aloud how much the Ryan family might have had if the senior Ryan had been able to take the money that went into SS and put it into life insurance and a retirement fund instead.

A more economically savvy poster responded back that, when the senior Ryan expired, the stock market had recently plunged and we still at a low point, meaning little Ryan would have been pan-handling on the street rather than thinking about going to college. And that the survivors benefits were in addition to various grants that he received as well.

152 Gus  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:19:44pm

re: #143 engineer cat

ryan's social security plan "combines a more realistic measure of growth in Social Security’s initial benefits, with an eventual modernization of the retirement age"

so would he still have been able to afford his "socialized" tuition money if his mother had been saving a "more realistic" or "modernized" amount?

To be honest. If I were a true bipartisan congressman working side by side with Ryan I would tell him, "we can incorporate some of your ideas..." into the larger whole. See, the main problem with the "Ryan plan" is that it's essentially an economic manifesto authored by one person. That's not how democracy should work.

153 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:20:49pm

re: #147 goddamnedfrank

Calvin "the business of government is business" Coolidge huh? The fascist roots run deep.

Well, Silent Cal was once guarded by Al Capone's brother. (True story)

Of course, that wouldn't say anything, since Mussolini was a firm enemy of the mafia.

/Irrelevant story mode.

154 Gus  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:22:09pm

I think Ron Paul is still in the US Air Force reserve. Been so since I was a small child and I'm getting a bit long in the tooth myself. But yeah... USAFR... small government.

155 engineer cat  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:22:14pm

"combines a more realistic measure of growth in Social Security’s initial benefits, with an eventual modernization of the retirement age"

anything served up with such an unusually large helping of euphemism smells plenty fishy to me

156 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:23:04pm

I'm surprised for a guy born in 1970 that his grandfather was old enough to be a Coolidge appointee. Not a knock, just an observation. I have first cousins around Ryan's age and our grandfather was born in 1913 and would have possibly been a Humphrey appointee had my username's name sake beat Nixon. The old family joke is of course that my Dad's antics are why he never got it.

157 JamesWI  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:23:18pm

re: #150 HappyWarrior

It does seem for a Rand follower that Ryan has had a lot of help from old Mr. Federal Government a lot in his life.

Of course, like all Randians, he's a selfish bastard. He'll take and take and take....and feel no remorse at taking away those opportunities from others.

158 Gus  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:24:49pm

re: #156 HappyWarrior

I'm surprised for a guy born in 1970 that his grandfather was old enough to be a Coolidge appointee. Not a knock, just an observation. I have first cousins around Ryan's age and our grandfather was born in 1913 and would have possibly been a Humphrey appointee had my username's name sake beat Nixon. The old family joke is of course that my Dad's antics are why he never got it.

Moar here...

His father, an attorney, was a Republican and a fan of Ronald Reagan, but not very political, says Ryan. His grandfather had been tapped by Calvin Coolidge to be U.S. attorney for western Wisconsin in his late 20s, roughly the same age at which Ryan entered Congress.

159 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:25:06pm

re: #155 engineer cat

"combines a more realistic measure of growth in Social Security’s initial benefits, with an eventual modernization of the retirement age"

anything served up with such an unusually large helping of euphemism smells plenty fishy to me

Reminds me somewhat of the old Soviet government documents, which spent so many words trying to pretty up the grim reality.

160 Gus  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:26:15pm

re: #159 Targetpractice

Reminds me somewhat of the old Soviet government documents, which spent so many words trying to pretty up the grim reality.

Film title: Austerity for the public as a black and white air force safety film from the 1950s. With orchestral music in the background.

161 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:26:37pm

re: #153 Dark_Falcon

Well, Silent Cal was once guarded by Al Capone's brother. (True story)

Of course, that wouldn't say anything, since Mussolini was a firm enemy of the mafia.

/Irrelevant story mode.

Score one for the mob. Though Capone was never really Cosa Nostra. Anyhow, what's interesting about the mob and fascism is how Luciano from what I understand played a role in the Allied invasion of Sicily finding people who would support the US occupation and oppose Mussolini. Vito Genovese though apparently was very sympathetic to the regime. Probably was following the money since that's what guys like that do.

162 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:26:58pm

re: #154 Gus

I think Ron Paul is still in the US Air Force reserve. Been so since I was a small child and I'm getting a bit long in the tooth myself. But yeah... USAFR... small government.

Texas has lots of DoD facilities. There are no dedicated Marine bases, but there are bases for all the other three services and Marines serve out of both Naval Air Stations in the state.

163 Gus  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:28:11pm

re: #162 Dark_Falcon

Texas has lots of DoD facilities. There are no dedicated Marine bases, but there are bases for all the other three services and Marines serve out of both Naval Air Stations in the state.

I can only conclude that we need big government in order to keep government small.

//

164 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:28:47pm

re: #161 HappyWarrior

Score one for the mob. Though Capone was never really Cosa Nostra. Anyhow, what's interesting about the mob and fascism is how Luciano from what I understand played a role in the Allied invasion of Sicily finding people who would support the US occupation and oppose Mussolini. Vito Genovese though apparently was very sympathetic to the regime. Probably was following the money since that's what guys like that do.

Mussolini saw the Mafia as obstacles to his own power, and also thought he'd get support from the common people of places like Palermo and Naples by cutting the Mafia back. In that, he was right.

165 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:29:10pm

re: #158 Gus

Moar here...

Ah, I see, his grandfather got that job the same age Ryan entered Congerss which would put his birth year in the mid 1890's and I remember hearing that Ryan's own father died in his mid 50's while Ryan was a teen. Guess guys in that family just father relatively old.

166 Interesting Times  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:29:24pm

re: #90 goddamnedfrank

Seriously, what kind of bigoted goddamned piece of worthless trash votes to ban gays and lesbians from adopting children? I mean, you'd have to be some kind of epic level, miserable little hate filled git to think kids are better off in orphanages than having loving parents who happen to be gay. A person would have to be a purely pathetic gutless ponce to vote for such a worthless turd of a human being, am I right?

:(

Cognitive dissonance and hypocrisy, how do they fucking work?

167 labman57  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:30:13pm

Originally, Palin was going to be invited to speak at the convention, but then the planning committee decided to make it an "English only" affair.

168 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:30:18pm

re: #164 Dark_Falcon

Mussolini saw the Mafia as obstacles to his own power, and also thought he'd get support from the common people of places like Palermo and Naples by cutting the Mafia back. In that, he was right.

Well Mussolini wasn't stupid. There was a reason why he had a lot of international fans in the 20's and 30's. I think Mussolini's rise is important to understanding Hitler's in Germany but that's another story.

169 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:30:38pm

re: #166 Interesting Times

:(

[Embedded content]

Cognitive dissonance and hypocrisy, how do they fucking work?

It's like asking how the Log Cabin Republicans and GOProud can throw their support behind a party that thinks they're abominations in the eyes of God. For many, denial can easily become a way of life.

170 dragonath  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:31:26pm

I have a 16mm reel of the 1936 Olympics, and even though the film did everything it could to avoid the Nazi imagery, there's tons of Blackshirts in the crowd during the Italy-Austria final.

171 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:31:36pm

re: #166 Interesting Times

:(

[Embedded content]

Cognitive dissonance and hypocrisy, how do they fucking work?

She'll quit the party when her dad retires or passes. Really, I don't mind Meaghan because unlike Bristol she's not a bigot but sometimes I don't think she knows shit about the party she's thrown her lot in with. Anyhow, the spin from GOProud and Log Cabin R's is that Ryan is pro gay rights. Outside his vote for ENDA- kudos on that but fuck him for his other votes, his record is very anti gay. Maybe Meaghan doesn't know that or want to admit it.

172 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:32:08pm

re: #165 HappyWarrior

Ah, I see, his grandfather got that job the same age Ryan entered Congerss which would put his birth year in the mid 1890's and I remember hearing that Ryan's own father died in his mid 50's while Ryan was a teen. Guess guys in that family just father relatively old.

How many children did Ryan Senior have? My father had a 16 year old when he was 38, and a 16 year old when he was 55.

173 Gus  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:33:02pm

I am a cat doorman.

174 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:33:21pm

re: #166 Interesting Times

:(

[Embedded content]

Cognitive dissonance and hypocrisy, how do they fucking work?

Damn, that sucks. In related news there's a job opening on my team of sexy ninjas.

175 Gus  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:34:12pm

Shall I get the Bentley, Snookums?

Meow.

I see. Out you go then.

176 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:34:43pm

re: #173 Gus

I am a cat doorman.

Welcome to the club. We have t-shirts.

//

177 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:35:45pm

re: #173 Gus

I am a cat doorman.

You underestimate yourself.

You are a cat doorman, chef, maid, chauffeur, and personal masseuse.

178 Gus  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:36:15pm

re: #176 Targetpractice

Welcome to the club. We have t-shirts.

//

A cat doorman's job is never done. I'm thinking... Cat Doorman Dude Ranch somewhere in Wyoming now...

//

179 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:36:43pm

re: #48 jamesfirecat

The high road... isn't that what you take if you want to get back to Scotland but aren't worried about spending too much time on the journey?

I believe that the high road is what you take back to Scotland if you're alive.

180 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:36:47pm

And, frankly, remind yourself that cats don't grow up and roll their eyes every time you speak.

181 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:37:24pm

re: #180 Mostly sane, most of the time.

And, frankly, remind yourself that cats don't grow up and roll their eyes every time you speak.

No, mine just look at me as if to say "Yeah, that's great, now when am I getting some tuna?"

182 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:37:39pm

re: #172 Mostly sane, most of the time.

How many children did Ryan Senior have? My father had a 16 year old when he was 38, and a 16 year old when he was 55.

Yeah, you're right. I was assuming I guess being the oldest that Ryan was the oldest child in his family. I guess it's really not that weird that his grandfather was a Coolidge appointee. My grandmother would be 100 and I'm only 25. Granted I am the fourth to last grandchild.

183 Gus  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:37:53pm

Cat Doorman Drum Circle...

We meet in Boulder.

//

184 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:38:25pm

re: #68 darthstar

Levi's undereducated, but he's not an asshole.

I wouldn't go that far. I haven't seen much to suggest he's not an asshole, merely that he was unlucky in his choice of young women to have unprotected sex with.

185 Gus  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:38:39pm

Heck. One of my grandfathers was born in 1896.

186 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:38:47pm

re: #182 HappyWarrior

Yeah, you're right. I was assuming I guess being the oldest that Ryan was the oldest child in his family. I guess it's really not that weird that his grandfather was a Coolidge appointee. My grandmother would be 100 and I'm only 25. Granted I am the fourth to last grandchild.

My grandmother is 88 and I am 42. Second oldest of the oldest.

187 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:38:57pm

[Link: www.quickmeme.com...]

188 Gus  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:39:34pm

Image: 455px-MASH_TV_Cast_1972.jpg

189 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:39:48pm

re: #180 Mostly sane, most of the time.

And, frankly, remind yourself that cats don't grow up and roll their eyes every time you speak.

No, but they do flip that tail a certain way that seems to convey the same message.

190 engineer cat  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:39:50pm

re: #168 HappyWarrior

Well Mussolini wasn't stupid. There was a reason why he had a lot of international fans in the 20's and 30's. I think Mussolini's rise is important to understanding Hitler's in Germany but that's another story.

i read a bio of mussolini recently, becuz i was wondering how he ever got into power

the hitler history channel doesn't cover him as obsessively as it does some other historical figures

but of course it turns out to have been merely thuggery - when enough legitimately elected socialist municipal government officials had had the sufficient amout of crap beaten out of them, he was offered the position of prime minister

because this had been the way upstarts like the socialists who challenged the power of the nobility and business leaders had always been dealt with in italy

191 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:41:01pm

re: #166 Interesting Times

:(

[Embedded content]

Cognitive dissonance and hypocrisy, how do they fucking work?

She's a free rider. She says she's for gay rights, voted for anti-gay politicians and expects liberals and the gay left to do all of the heavy lifting for the cause she claims to support.

192 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:42:27pm

Oh, Nextdoor-neighbors having a baby part II.

So, not having any idea which sex the next-door baby is, (I have since seen the youtube video of her birth (edited), so it's a she), I went out and bought some of my favorite baby books to give them. Stuff that my mother read to me, and I read to my kids, and that my husband altered so that the bear ended up eating Sal instead of going home with her baby. Ahem.

He wanted to go over and give it to them tonight, so he started looking through the stash of bags to find a gift bag.

Being an engineer, he picked out two of the correct size. I said, "Good, but that one's clearly a Christmas bag, and that says "Happy Birthday" on it in big letters."

I found one the right size in pastels.*

*Then, if you have to know, he wanted to use bright red tissue paper with the pastel bag. No, actually, my birthday gifts don't come wrapped. Why do you ask?

193 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:42:33pm

re: #191 moderatelyradicalliberal

She's a free rider. She says she's for gay rights, voted for anti-gay politicians and expects liberals and the gay left to do all of the heavy lifting for the cause she claims to support.

Ethical parasitism.

194 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:43:03pm

re: #191 moderatelyradicalliberal

She's a free rider. She says she's for gay rights, voted for anti-gay politicians and expects liberals and the gay left to do all of the heavy lifting for the cause she claims to support.

In her defense, she did vote for Kerry over Bush in 2004. Why she's supporting Romney who is just as anti gay as Bush over Obama, I don't know. I understand why she voted for her Dad in 2008 but this.

195 Gus  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:45:37pm

Yeeeehaaaa!

Mitch Miller: Yellow Rose of Texas

Youtube Video

I was in Brooklyn when I first heard this. It was Mitch.

196 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:45:38pm

re: #186 Mostly sane, most of the time.

My grandmother is 88 and I am 42. Second oldest of the oldest.

We range in age of the first cousins from 53 to 11. It's kind of funny for my second cousins who are with some exceptions older than my 11 brother seeing him and knowing that their great grandmother was his grandmother. My grandmother lived to be a great great grandmother. I always thought that was cool.

197 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:46:48pm

re: #196 HappyWarrior

We range in age of the first cousins from 53 to 11. It's kind of funny for my second cousins who are with some exceptions older than my 11 brother seeing him and knowing that their great grandmother was his grandmother. My grandmother lived to be a great great grandmother. I always thought that was cool.

If my beautiful, intelligent, oldest niece had followed in her mother's footsteps, my grandmother would be a great-great-grandmother by now.

198 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:47:04pm

re: #190 engineer cat

i read a bio of mussolini recently, becuz i was wondering how he ever got into power

the hitler history channel doesn't cover him as obsessively as it does some other historical figures

but of course it turns out to have been merely thuggery - when enough legitimately elected socialist municipal government officials had had the sufficient amout of crap beaten out of them, he was offered the position of prime minister

because this had been the way upstarts like the socialists who challenged the power of the nobility and business leaders had always been dealt with in italy

You can't call it the Hitler Channel anymore heh. That sounds like an interesting read though. I know it sounds weird but I always laugh when I see archive footage of Mussolini becaue he does the most obnoxious arm gestures.

199 engineer cat  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:47:07pm

my family had long generations, too

my grandfather was born in a shtetl in poland in the 1880s

200 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:47:16pm

re: #194 HappyWarrior

In her defense, she did vote for Kerry over Bush in 2004. Why she's supporting Romney who is just as anti gay as Bush over Obama, I don't know. I understand why she voted for her Dad in 2008 but this.

The conditions of her trust fund have probably been amended to mandate public affirmations of allegiance to the party.

201 dragonath  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:47:59pm

re: #194 HappyWarrior

Got a kick out of the use of a Hunter S. quote in her description. Her objectives are so far apart from his that it's mindblowing

202 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:48:05pm

re: #194 HappyWarrior

In her defense, she did vote for Kerry over Bush in 2004. Why she's supporting Romney who is just as anti gay as Bush over Obama, I don't know. I understand why she voted for her Dad in 2008 but this.

That was not about policy that was personal. She couldn't vote for Bush because of the dirty SC campaign back in 2000 and now she still can't vote for Obama because he kicked her dad's ass in 2008. Who knows what she will do in the privacy of the voting booth, but I still say she's a free rider on the gay rights stuff.

203 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:48:19pm

re: #200 goddamnedfrank

The conditions of her trust fund have probably been amended to mandate public affirmations of allegiance to the party.

I guess so. She's more public about her support of the party than her siblings are though. I know two of them are military and thus can't talk politics really.

204 calochortus  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:48:56pm

re: #185 Gus

Heck. One of my grandfathers was born in 1896.

Is this a contest? One of my grandfathers was born in 1868. That side of the family was kind of slow reproducing themselves...

205 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:49:24pm

re: #202 moderatelyradicalliberal

That was not about policy that was personal. She couldn't vote for Bush because of the dirty SC campaign back in 2000 and now she still can't vote for Obama because he kicked her dad's ass in 2008. Who knows what she will do in the privacy of the voting booth, but I still say she's a free rider on the gay rights stuff.

Yeah, you're probably right about that. Would be interesting that it came out that McCain himself voted for Kerry. I read a story about McGovern admitting to have voted for Ford over Carter.

206 engineer cat  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:49:46pm

re: #198 HappyWarrior

You can't call it the Hitler Channel anymore heh. That sounds like an interesting read though. I know it sounds weird but I always laugh when I see archive footage of Mussolini becaue he does the most obnoxious arm gestures.

his career before he became prime minister was, officially, journalist, but apparently what he was always best at was being the center of attention and making a spectacle of himself

207 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:50:19pm

re: #190 engineer cat

i read a bio of mussolini recently, becuz i was wondering how he ever got into power

the hitler history channel doesn't cover him as obsessively as it does some other historical figures

but of course it turns out to have been merely thuggery - when enough legitimately elected socialist municipal government officials had had the sufficient amout of crap beaten out of them, he was offered the position of prime minister

because this had been the way upstarts like the socialists who challenged the power of the nobility and business leaders had always been dealt with in italy

The aristocracy in Italy in the early 1920's was terrified of Communism, and given what had happened to many of their counterparts in Russia one can call their fears valid. Mussolini was their answer to the Reds: Someone they felt could give the people enough of what they wanted to quiet them, but someone who would not actually remove the elites from their positions of privilege.

Sorry for the delay, I was getting some late dinner cooked up. Just macaroni, since I've not had a chance to shop in the last few days.

208 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:50:49pm

re: #206 engineer cat

his career before he became prime minister was, officially, journalist, but apparently what he was always best at was being the center of attention and making a spectacle of himself

I know he advocated Italy get involved in WWI against Austria-Hungary because of land issues. I'm guessing that was Trieste.

209 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:51:29pm

re: #204 calochortus

Is this a contest? One of my grandfathers was born in 1868. That side of the family was kind of slow reproducing themselves...

My father was 22 when he became a father...he was married at 20.

When you meet the right girl in the 5th grade, there's no reason to delay.*

*He knew she was the right one because she could long jump farther than he could, which is a sure sign. If you're 11.

210 Gus  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:52:10pm

You have to admit one thing. The Italian troops during WWII ended up being somewhat amiable.

211 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:52:20pm

re: #201 Fred Galt

Got a kick out of the use of a Hunter S. quote in her description. Her objectives are so far apart from his that it's mindblowing

I think ole Hunter would detest Romney more than he did Nixon.

212 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:52:30pm

re: #203 HappyWarrior

I guess so. She's more public about her support of the party than her siblings are though. I know two of them are military and thus can't talk politics really.

Well, I think her youngest brother, Jack (I think), is no longer on active duty. The middle of the three siblings, John S. McCain IV, is an ensign in the Navy.

213 Gus  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:53:56pm

Barack Obama proved me wrong. Obama turned out to be nothing my twisted mind thought in 2008. For that I am happy. Obama, for me, was a teaching moment.

214 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:54:17pm

re: #210 Gus

You have to admit one thing. The Italian troops during WWII ended up being somewhat amiable.

Not if you were in Yugoslavia. The Italians there did not seek out and murder the Jews in their sectors as the Germans did, but they had no reservations about slaughtering entire villages in reprisal for attacks by Tito's partisans.

215 Gus  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:54:53pm

re: #214 Dark_Falcon

Not if you were in Yugoslavia. The Italians there did not seek out and murder the Jews in their sectors as the Germans did, but they had no reservations about slaughtering entire villages in reprisal for attacks by Tito's partisans.

Yes. There were plenty of bad ones.

216 engineer cat  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:55:03pm

i recently saw a play by the great tom stoppard, which dramatizes the youth of baukunin. it makes him out as a figure of fun, an unreliable, obnoxious, lazy lightweight who is always, laughably, describing himself as "the greatest russian political theorist of the 19th century". of course eventually this turned out to be true

it seems mussolini was a lot like that

217 Gus  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:55:22pm

But there was no Italian Okinawa.

218 calochortus  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:56:01pm

re: #209 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Sounds like an excellent way to choose one's life partner. My grandfather married at about 30. Dad was born a few years later, and due to the fact he didn't even meet my mother until he was around 40 and I'm a younger child, well, that side of the family really stretches the generations.

219 engineer cat  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:57:41pm

re: #208 HappyWarrior

I know he advocated Italy get involved in WWI against Austria-Hungary because of land issues. I'm guessing that was Trieste.

it was the turning point in his life which cause him to split with the socialist party which he had been a spokesman for before that

as to the reasons, these are murkier and seem to have to do with patriotism, manliness, and the fact that some very wealthy people were prepared to supply him with substantial, uh, patronage if he came out for the war

220 Interesting Times  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:58:08pm

If this is true, lulz forever:

221 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 8:59:33pm

Re: Italy and fascism. I think this is what fascinates me. It's not what makes Hitler and Mussolini similar that is interesting. It's what makes them different. Take Mussolini and the Jews. His fascism was more about the power of the state than it was racial. Sure, it was nationalistic and Mussolini had Anti Semitic sentiments but his fascism was mostly about the power of the state over the individual. Spain is another good example. Franco was much more concerned with protecting the church in this case the Roman Catholic one than some bizarre mysticism like you saw in Hitler's Germany. Anyhow, what DF said above about the upper classes being drawn to Fascism because of its opposition to Bolshevism and such while protecting the status quo of the wealthy is why it's absurd to call Fascism a leftist ideology. It's not traditional European rightist ideology as traditional rightist ideology to that time was about preserving monarchies and the old ways but it is a right wing movement.

222 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 9:00:11pm

re: #82 HappyWarrior

She probably felt nervous. That's how I felt when I went target shooting for the first and only time with a friend in New Mexico this winter. I always thought the whole gun posing for political photo-ops was lame.

And if you're not used to guns, being nervous makes sense. They make a lot of noise, and the recoil can be jolting.

But if you've presented yourself to America as a lady who feeds her family every winter on what she shoots...

223 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 9:01:12pm

re: #90 goddamnedfrank

Seriously, what kind of bigoted goddamned piece of worthless trash votes to ban gays and lesbians from adopting children? I mean, you'd have to be some kind of epic level, miserable little hate filled git to think kids are better off in orphanages than having loving parents who happen to be gay. A person would have to be a purely pathetic gutless ponce to vote for such a worthless turd of a human being, am I right?

I can see we're going straight for the vinegar here.

224 Gus  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 9:01:23pm
225 Gus  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 9:01:42pm

Foo Fighters - The Pretender

Youtube Video
226 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 9:02:35pm

re: #224 Gus

[Embedded content]

And they mocked Obama's inexperience. At least he had a third of that time and his wo bills were on issues far greater than arrows and post offices.

227 Gus  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 9:04:15pm

re: #226 HappyWarrior

And they mocked Obama's inexperience. At least he had a third of that time and his wo bills were on issues far greater than arrows and post offices.

Four more years for mission complete in Afghanistan. Obama must finish this mission. For the cause of freedom and democracy in the Middle East states once and for all.

Patriots vote for Obama.

Do you?

228 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 9:04:30pm

re: #217 Gus

But there was no Italian Okinawa.

No, but that was only because the Italian Alpindi (Alpine) and Cavalry Divisions on the Eastern Front were eventually able to fight their way clear of Marshal Zhukov's offensive in November 1942, although with the collapse of the Romanian formations that were supposed to hold adjacent sectors of the front they were unable to prevent the encirclement of Gen. von Paulus and 6th Army in Stalingrad.

But the Italian Alpine brigade that had been surrounded at Caporetto in WWI had fought almost to the last man, and the Alpine divisions of WWII would likely have done the same. As would the cavalry. Easy enough, when the cavalry were largely drawn from the upper strata of Italian society and were thus seen by the Red Army's commissars as "class enemies".

229 dragonath  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 9:05:04pm

re: #221 HappyWarrior

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Big Business in Germany knew exactly what they were getting. Check out some of the German magazines from back then.

230 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 9:06:08pm

re: #223 SanFranciscoZionist

I can see we're going straight for the vinegar here.

All I'm saying is that the guy is an abjectly evil, scapegoating, metaphorical sack of filth and that those who vote for him will be condoning an incredibly backwards, ethically indefensible brand of bigotry.

231 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 9:06:20pm

[Link: 2012.talkingpointsmemo.com...]
Good, this is what they should be doing. Ryan doesn't deserve the reputation of the deficit hawk. Axelrod even got Preince in a trap trying to deny Ryan voted for things that added to the debt. Preince's weak retort was to say well he's really committed to fixing the debt, his Ryan plan is awesome!

232 Gus  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 9:07:13pm

Tangled Up In Blue - Bob Dylan

Youtube Video
233 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 9:07:15pm

re: #229 Fred Galt

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Big Business in Germany knew exactly what they were getting. Check out some of the German magazines from back then.

I am familiar with the fact that Hitler courted industrialists.

234 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 9:08:29pm

re: #82 HappyWarrior

She probably felt nervous. That's how I felt when I went target shooting for the first and only time with a friend in New Mexico this winter. I always thought the whole gun posing for political photo-ops was lame.

The only time it's cool to pose for a photograph with a gun is while sliding across the hood of a car.

235 Gus  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 9:09:47pm

re: #228 Dark_Falcon

No, but that was only because the Italian Alpindi (Alpine) and Cavalry Divisions on the Eastern Front were eventually able to fight their way clear of Marshal Zhukov's offensive in November 1942, although with the collapse of the Romanian formations that were supposed to hold adjacent sectors of the front they were unable to prevent the encirclement of Gen. von Paulus and 6th Army in Stalingrad.

But the Italian Alpine brigade that had been surrounded at Caporetto in WWI had fought almost to the last man, and the Alpine divisions of WWII would likely have done the same. As would the cavalry. Easy enough, when the cavalry were largely drawn from the upper strata of Italian society and were thus seen by the Red Army's commissars as "class enemies".

You should think about teaching WWII history.

236 engineer cat  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 9:10:03pm

re: #229 Fred Galt

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Big Business in Germany knew exactly what they were getting. Check out some of the German magazines from back then.

jonah goldberg must be protected from this information at all costs!

237 simoom  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 9:10:27pm

re: #224 Gus

[Embedded content]

From the 60 minutes interview:

Bob Schieffer: What will be Congressman Ryan's role if indeed you are elected and he is vice president? Will you send him up to the Hill? Will you put him in charge of certain things?

Mitt Romney: Well, I anticipate that there will be certain areas that are his areas of expertise and he has passion and concern there. That he'll actually take a lead role in helping oversee those areas and maybe some cabinet officers who will work primarily with the vice president. But he would also have a role in helping shepherd legislation on the Hill. Of course, you have a legislative affairs director that takes that kind of lead as well, but you can't imagine having someone like Paul Ryan, who's been able to work with Democrat senators, Democrat members of the House as well as Republicans, been able to make things happen there. I can't imagine not using him. And to have his skill in finding those people that can come together and find common ground, despite differing views on issues. This is one of the key reasons I've selected him. Is that he has that unusual, almost a unique capacity to find people of different parties who are of a common purpose that can come together to do something that's right for the county.

I guess that should have been:
"Paul Ryan, who's been able to work with Democrat senators, Democrat members of the House as well as Republicans, been able to make [two] things happen there."

238 Gus  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 9:10:39pm

You look like the solid type...

Written by an Italian poet from the 15th century...

239 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 9:12:10pm

re: #204 calochortus

Is this a contest? One of my grandfathers was born in 1868. That side of the family was kind of slow reproducing themselves...

My husband is extending his family's trend. His great-grandmother had her first at thirteen. His grandmother was sixteen. His mother was eighteen, and his sister twenty. He, OTOH, has made it childless into his mid-thirties. No one knows what to make of this odd behavior.

240 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 9:14:14pm

re: #235 Gus

You should think about teaching WWII history.

I'm not sure there's a market for it. Those Eastern Front battles that occurred at the same time as Stalingrad don't get a lot of press among WWII buffs. But I feel that they are important because they underscore that large parts of the Italian Army had by 1942 become fully professional.

Another such units was the Ariete Armored Division in the Western Desert. While in 1941 it had been a 'weak sister', once paired with the German 21st Panzer Division it got much better. By the time of the Battle of Gazala it was capable of fighting British armor with a real chance of success.

241 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 9:15:39pm

re: #230 goddamnedfrank

All I'm saying is that the guy is an abjectly evil, scapegoating, metaphorical sack of filth and that those who vote for him will be condoning an incredibly backwards, ethically indefensible brand of bigotry.

I'm still not sure what your point is. Can you just spit it out already? Say what you mean.

242 Kragar  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 9:17:23pm

re: #225 Gus

Foo Fighters - The Pretender

[Embedded content]

Youtube Video
243 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 9:19:53pm

re: #237 simoom

From the 60 minutes interview:

I guess that should have been:
"Paul Ryan, who's been able to work with Democrat senators, Democrat members of the House as well as Republicans, been able to make [two] things happen there."

Did he actually say "Democrat" as opposed to saying "Democratic"? Not that really peeves me personally but using the label Limbaugh places on the Democratic Party isn't really the best way to make the case that you and your running mate will be bipartisan. Did Mitt cite any examples of Ryan working with Democrats or did he just give vague answers like he always does?

244 Lidane  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 9:20:21pm

OT, but can I just point out that it's hilarious and hypocritical for Mitt Romney to demand years of tax returns from his VP candidate when he refuses to release any more of his?

245 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 9:22:51pm

re: #244 Lidane

OT, but can I just point out that it's hilarious and hypocritical for Mitt Romney to demand years of tax returns from his VP candidate when he refuses to release any more of his?

Remember Mitt gets to play by different rules than everyone else and that includes his running mate. Remember when he got called out on distorting what Obama said about the economy when he was actually talking about McCain saying that. His response was hey it's working so we're going to keep on doing it. Yet he's been acting like the mean old Obama team is slinging all the mud and he's just a good guy getting a bad rap.that he shows this same standard with his taxes should come as no surprise,

246 Mocking Jay  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 9:23:45pm

I am a true-blue dyed in the wool Liberal and the Newsroom's heavy-handedness makes me sick to my stomach.

247 dragonath  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 9:24:54pm

re: #240 Dark_Falcon

I think it's kind of comical that the Germans ended up carving off pieces of the Italian Social Republic towards the end of the war and there are still sizable numbers of unreconstructed Fascists in Northern Italy.

248 Lidane  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 9:26:53pm

re: #245 HappyWarrior

Remember Mitt gets to play by different rules than everyone else and that includes his running mate.

Speaking of getting to play by different rules:

Republicans Who Criticized Obama As Foreign Policy Novice Say Romney’s Missing Experience Is A Plus

249 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 9:27:39pm

re: #247 Fred Galt

I think it's kind of comical that the Germans ended up carving off pieces of the Italian Social Republic towards the end of the war and there are still sizable numbers of unreconstructed Fascists in Northern Italy.

Some people just don't learn.

250 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 9:28:30pm

re: #246 Mocking Jay

I am a true-blue dyed in the wool Liberal and the Newsroom's heavy-handedness makes me sick to my stomach.

What did they do?

251 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 9:30:56pm

re: #247 Fred Galt

I think it's kind of comical that the Germans ended up carving off pieces of the Italian Social Republic towards the end of the war and there are still sizable numbers of unreconstructed Fascists in Northern Italy.

I think that fascists are like slave owners. They like the system because in their minds, they are always the one to benefit, the one in charge. They wouldn't be so enthusiastic about an idea if they thought that someone else was going to get to order them around, against their wishes.

252 Mocking Jay  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 9:31:22pm

re: #250 Dark_Falcon

What did they do?

They're going through the news stories of 2011 for the last few episodes, and the way they explain each and every tidbit of information is aggravating. Not that they're doing it in the context of the news program that the show is about, but these pop up in conversations between characters and it all comes off as way too preachy.

253 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 9:35:55pm

The Daily FAIL has a rather trashy article up about Barack Obama's half brother, George. While the words aren't worth very much, its worth a look for some of the photos of other members of President Obama's family, including this photo of Barack Obama's only remembered visit from his father in 1971:

Image: article-2186782-147CF682000005DC-105_634x458.jpg

So ignore the trash prose and look through the photos.

254 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 9:36:01pm

re: #248 Lidane

Speaking of getting to play by different rules:

Republicans Who Criticized Obama As Foreign Policy Novice Say Romney’s Missing Experience Is A Plus

Yep, same thing. It would be one thing if they just tried to spin off Romney's inexperience but championing the same thing they attacked Obama for not having four years ago. Sorry guys, you fail. It's particularly funny to see Newt standing up for these guys since we're going to be seeing a lot of him criticizing both Ryan and Romney in the ads.

255 Mich-again  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 9:37:24pm

re: #246 Mocking Jay

I am a true-blue dyed in the wool Liberal and the Newsroom's heavy-handedness makes me sick to my stomach.

I see the media presenting a forced even-steven perspective on everything. The GOP used to be able to bitch about unfavorable treatment in the media, but that was before Citizen's United. Now the GOP has hundreds of millions of dollars to toss around in ad revenue, and being of reasonable intelligence they sure as f*ck aren't going to spend their SuperPAC millions on any networks that point out what a bunch of religious fanatic twits the GOP has become in the next news segment.

256 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 9:39:12pm

re: #252 Mocking Jay

They're going through the news stories of 2011 for the last few episodes, and the way they explain each and every tidbit of information is aggravating. Not that they're doing it in the context of the news program that the show is about, but these pop up in conversations between characters and it all comes off as way too preachy.

It's a problem for Hollywood types. They don't understand the deal-making that permeates so much of American politics. Real-life politicians are seldom preachy among the own type of people. Preaching would risk alienating the other side, and risk the ability to make a deal. They save the preaching for the public.

257 Mocking Jay  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 9:40:22pm

re: #256 Dark_Falcon

It's a problem for Hollywood types. They don't understand the deal-making that permeates so much of American politics. Real-life politicians are seldom preachy among the own type of people. Preaching would risk alienating the other side, and risk the ability to make a deal. They save the preaching for the public.

No, I'm talking about the actual characters in the show, people trying to run a news program.

258 freetoken  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 9:40:55pm

re: #255 Mich-again

It's not just that.

In the age of Reality-TV where faux-competition and forced confrontations are created to set up the eventual even-steven booking of who "wins", media outlets these days understand that they will win ($) only if they can market a very tight race.

The tighter, the better.

The 2000 election taught them how much money there is to be made in a controversially close race.

259 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 9:45:02pm

re: #257 Mocking Jay

No, I'm talking about the actual characters in the show, people trying to run a news program.

I know. what I'm saying is that the writers and actors have trouble getting the characters right because of their own tendency to preach and their own fondness for drama.

260 simoom  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 9:50:30pm

re: #246 Mocking Jay

I am a true-blue dyed in the wool Liberal and the Newsroom's heavy-handedness makes me sick to my stomach.

Yeah, with so many aspects of modern journalism being completely dysfunctional there should be plenty of material to shame them with. The show could have had a much greater impact if it was far more subtle with its politics, but as it is I imagine media elites find it extremely easy to dismiss.

261 Mocking Jay  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 9:52:37pm

re: #260 simoom

Yeah, with so many aspects of modern journalism being completely dysfunctional there should be plenty of material to shame them with. The show could have had a much greater impact if it was far more subtle with its politics, but as it is I imagine media elites find it extremely easy to dismiss.

I don't mind the characters having political views, but dammit they need to at least talk like real people.

262 engineer cat  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 9:53:35pm

i'm sitting here writing text processing software

unexpected resource: scrabble helper websites

where else can i get a complete list of english words containing "-oa-"?

263 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 9:55:10pm

I'm fading, so I'm signing off. Good night.

264 Minor_L  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 9:57:50pm

She's still trotting out "community organizer"? Between that and "lamestream media," she has all the sophistication and political saavy of an 11 year old. Or a Kardashian.

265 engineer cat  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 10:07:27pm

"This may sound funny coming from me, but I'd say Jon Stewart," Ryan said with a laugh. He went on to say that Stewart's jokes at his expense were done "tastefully."

Although Ryan is known as an extremely conservative politician, Ryan has gotten off relatively easy by "Daily Show" standards. In episodes where Stewart joked about Ryan's budget plan last summer, he also poked fun at the media fawning of Ryan's good looks, calling him "Wisconsin dreamboat" and the head of the "Hunk Budget Committee."

urk

266 Lidane  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 10:08:28pm

re: #264 Minor_L

She's still trotting out "community organizer"? Between that and "lamestream media," she has all the sophistication and political saavy of an 11 year old. Or a Kardashian.

That's an insult to the Kardashians. ;)

267 Mocking Jay  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 10:10:39pm

re: #265 engineer cat

"This may sound funny coming from me, but I'd say Jon Stewart," Ryan said with a laugh. He went on to say that Stewart's jokes at his expense were done "tastefully."

Although Ryan is known as an extremely conservative politician, Ryan has gotten off relatively easy by "Daily Show" standards. In episodes where Stewart joked about Ryan's budget plan last summer, he also poked fun at the media fawning of Ryan's good looks, calling him "Wisconsin dreamboat" and the head of the "Hunk Budget Committee."

urk

Yeah, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that Ryan might want to skip the Daily Show for the next three months or so.

268 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 10:14:15pm

re: #267 Mocking Jay

Yeah, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that Ryan might want to skip the Daily Show for the next three months or so.

Yeah, I think tomorrow night's gonna be one hell of a shock.

269 freetoken  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 10:18:11pm

re: #266 Lidane

That's an insult to the Kardashians. ;)

Especially in this case, where Mama Kardashian will cough up the big bucks to get her daughter hitched, contra The Sarah running off the guy who knocked up Bristol:

Kris Jenner 'Offers Kanye West Millions To Marry Kim Kardashian'

270 engineer cat  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 10:29:20pm

"Wisconsin dreamboat" and the head of the "Hunk Budget Committee."

i'm not female or gay so i am no fit judge, but he looks more knobby than hunky as far as i can make out

271 krypto  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 10:42:24pm

Sarah Palin calling Barack Obama "inexperienced and unqualified"??

I could only laugh when I read that.

272 Lidane  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 10:44:00pm

re: #270 engineer cat

"Wisconsin dreamboat" and the head of the "Hunk Budget Committee."

i'm not female or gay so i am no fit judge, but he looks more knobby than hunky as far as i can make out

Some Freeper loon said he looked like he could be Brad Paisley's brother. I thought that was an insult to Brad Paisley.

IMO, Ryan looks like an adult Eddie Munster, only without the creepy makeup. He's physically attractive when compared to the rest of the GOP leadership, but his ideas make him just as ugly as the rest of them.

273 Lidane  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 10:45:15pm

re: #271 krypto

Sarah Palin calling Barack Obama "inexperienced and unqualified"??

I could only laugh when I read that.

I laughed harder when Carly Fiorina and others tried to argue that Sarah Palin had more experience than Joe Biden. That was a hoot.

274 Kragar  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 10:45:30pm

re: #271 krypto

Sarah Palin calling Barack Obama "inexperienced and unqualified"??

I could only laugh when I read that.

Its like goldy or silvery, but made of iron

275 freetoken  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 10:49:32pm

re: #270 engineer cat

Well... the Clothes Make The Man, as the old saying goes, so let's see how Paul Ryan has been presenting himself of late:

First up:
Image: paul-ryan-sexy.jpg

Now, that isn't all bad, and I suppose for a DC politician might count as "sexy", but it's only a half-portrait. The tie is high contrast, but that's ok because Ryan's complexion+hair is too. The coat is still too staid.

Second:
Image: 628x471.jpg

See, now that's bad. And I don't mean the smirk and thumbs up, which is always corny. Tan slacks with blue shirt is so formulaic - it's what one expects of a new graduate from a nerdy school who has never dressed to impress before.

Third:
Image: PaulRyanMoneyCake.jpg

Ok, now that is just ugly. Shiny yellowish-green tie - really? With a blue shirt? That's something one might find in say London from a politician/celebrity who's trying to make a statement about how "green" they are at some big confab. Anyway, just wrong for Ryan.

Fourth:
Image: paul_ryan2012-med-wide1-400x300.jpg
He has this thing for burnt orange ties. I guess someone must have mentioned to him at sometime that it was his color. Anyway, while it does work with a blue shirt, the whole mood is just a little wacky, I think. Not that it's an inherently bad combination. Here, though, the problem is the grey pin strip suit. Now, if one has to wear a grey pin stripe suit, go a smidgen in the direction of chalk-stripe if possible. And grey looks classier when it is silk, not wool, but a silk suit is probably a bit too far out there for a Republican to pull off. Anyway, if Ryan is going to go grey wool suit, he needs to match it with a stronger color.

Still waiting for fee...

276 engineer cat  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 10:56:02pm

re: #275 freetoken

the engineer cat fashion statement runs to square toed fry boots, black jeans, dark blue and/or black striped shirts, and staying in shape

except for the boots this kind of an outfit doesn't stand out much on the dot com engineering floor

277 Mocking Jay  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 10:57:33pm

re: #269 freetoken

Especially in this case, where Mama Kardashian will cough up the big bucks to get her daughter hitched, contra The Sarah running off the guy who knocked up Bristol:

Kris Jenner 'Offers Kanye West Millions To Marry Kim Kardashian'

Kim comes with a dowry?

278 Lidane  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 11:01:21pm

re: #277 Mocking Jay

Kim comes with a dowry?

Nope. Just a profit-sharing plan. I'm guessing Kris Jenner sees any cash paid to Kanye as an investment in any future earnings off his name.

279 freetoken  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 11:10:05pm

re: #278 Lidane

And the profit from the proposed grandchildren.

280 AK-47%  Sun, Aug 12, 2012 11:26:38pm

re: #10 darthstar

She was talking about his being black.

And he has remained black for nearly four years now. Shocking...the White House has had no effect on his skin color.

281 freetoken  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 12:11:14am

Ok, so I thought I would see what Paul Ryan would look like with a bit more hair... so I had him do a makeover:

[Link: www.instyle.com...]

Unfortunately the software didn't allow for adding facial hair, which I think he ought to experiment with (as in a very short, sharply trimmed beard.) Since the realities are that he has to remain a politician I couldn't go all Hollywood on him, but I was simply trying to de-Munster-ize him.


And, while he could look better with dominantly grey/silver hair, that would probably be off the table too.

282 freetoken  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 12:13:46am

Also unfortunately he ended up looking like a TV Evangelist with that hair, but it does help balance out his prominent ears and nose.

283 AK-47%  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 12:14:29am

Mitt has the Alpha Hair in this campaign, Ryan is to focus on budget matters.

284 freetoken  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 12:19:16am

re: #283 Expand Your Ground

Well, if their talking points are to be coordinated, I thought their looks ought to be also. So I gave Ryan a part on the left, and made his hair length roughly the same of Romney's. Mitt has the benefit of grey sideburns, which is the classic rich man look, which Ryan lacks, but then again he lacks the money too.

285 AK-47%  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 12:23:38am

re: #284 freetoken

Mitt has the benefit of grey sideburns, which is the classic rich man look, which Ryan lacks, but then again he lacks the money too.

Only in comparison to Romney, he is only worth around $2 million...

He could be worth a lot more, but he was never good at budgeting ...

286 Kragar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 12:24:09am

re: #284 freetoken

Well, if their talking points are to be coordinated, I thought their looks ought to be also. So I gave Ryan a part on the left, and made his hair length roughly the same of Romney's. Mitt has the benefit of grey sideburns, which is the classic rich man look, which Ryan lacks, but then again he lacks the money too.

You know what they need? Long hair and Lemmy mutton chops.

287 AK-47%  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 12:26:47am

Even more fitting would be an Ayn Rand-style bob cut.

288 Kragar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 12:30:19am

re: #287 Expand Your Ground

Even more fitting would be an Ayn Rand-style bob cut.

Split the difference? Mitt gets the mutton chops, Ryan gets the bob?

289 freetoken  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 12:38:09am

Ok, if I Ryan actually had the freedom to make himself look better, I think he ought to go in this direction:

Image: Pe9d75ca23704d3b9cc9dd30960c3a03f_164037975.jpg

That would be more of a Hollywood look, and it's a big step away from stodgy.

290 freetoken  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 12:40:32am

Whoops... that didn't work. Try this:

[Link: www.instyle.com...]

291 engineer cat  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 12:48:27am

re: #290 freetoken

Whoops... that didn't work. Try this:

[Link: www.instyle.com...]

see, now, you're messing with his successful expression of stubborn ignorance and priggishness as expressed by his constipated hairstyle

he doesn't want his hair to flow free - he wants to restrain it and stunt its emotional growth

292 freetoken  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 1:03:13am

So... you wanted an Ayn Rand type of hairdo... well, here is one based on this picture of Rand:
Image: rand%202.jpg

Voila:

[Link: www.instyle.com...]

293 AK-47%  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 1:06:26am

re: #292 freetoken

So... you wanted an Ayn Rand type of hairdo... well, here is one based on this picture of Rand:
Image: rand%202.jpg

Voila:

[Link: www.instyle.com...]

scary as hell

294 researchok  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 1:06:43am

Morning, all

295 freetoken  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 1:07:04am

I see that the online software only keeps the last makeover... it's supposed to save all the older ones, but alas, it doesn't work.

296 freetoken  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 1:07:43am

re: #293 Expand Your Ground

scary as hell

I'll just say this bluntly: it'd be next to impossible to make Ryan look good in drag.

297 freetoken  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 1:27:51am

Never to be heard when Paul Ryan is on stage:

MP3 Audio
298 Kragar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 1:46:24am

re: #297 freetoken

Never to be heard when Paul Ryan is on stage:

[Embedded content]

Also missing:

Youtube Video
299 researchok  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 1:57:32am

Have a good one, all

300 freetoken  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 2:04:41am
SoundCloud
301 Kragar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 2:13:38am

re: #300 freetoken

[Embedded content]

Murray Gold - Can I Come With You?

Youtube Video
302 Kragar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 2:22:46am

Excalibur - The Siege of Camylarde

Youtube Video

Fun fact: The director of Excalibur (1981) wanted the focus to be on the story, so he insisted that for certain roles, actors who weren't well known in the US should be cast. Actors like Liam Neeson, Patrick Stewart, and Gabriel Bryne, and Helen Mirren to name a few.

Originally, they were going attempting to film The Lord of The Rings, but the rights couldn't be acquired, so they went ahead with the Excalibur script instead.

303 AK-47%  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 2:26:40am

re: #302 Kragar

Excalibur - The Siege of Camylarde

[Embedded content]

Fun fact: The director of Excalibur (1981) wanted the focus to be on the story, so he insisted that for certain roles,actors who weren't well known in the US should be cast. Actors like Liam Neeson, Patrick Stewart, and Gabriel Bryne, and Helen Mirren to name a few.

Originally, they were going attempting to film The Lord of The Rings, but the rights couldn't be acquired, so they went ahead with the Excalibur script instead.

That was a pretty decent film for its day. My ex was terribly disappointed, because she was a big fan of all the Arthurian literature and appalled at how they took liberties with the story. i tried to explain that it was about the damn sword and not about Malory's version of events

304 Kragar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 2:26:52am

Excalibur was also the first R rated movie I remember my Dad taking me to see in the theater.

305 Decatur Deb  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 2:26:58am

re: #302 Kragar

Excalibur - The Siege of Camylarde

[Embedded content]

Fun fact: The director of Excalibur (1981) wanted the focus to be on the story, so he insisted that for certain roles, actors who weren't well known in the US should be cast. Actors like Liam Neeson, Patrick Stewart, and Gabriel Bryne, and Helen Mirren to name a few.

Originally, they were going attempting to film The Lord of The Rings, but the rights couldn't be acquired, so they went ahead with the Excalibur script instead.

The scene of the knights' horses shaking the petals from the apple orchard was my favorite in the movie. My 15-yr old liked other scenes.

306 Kragar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 2:28:19am

re: #305 Decatur Deb

The scene of the knights horses shaking the petals from the apple orchard was my favorite in the movie. My 15-yr old liked other scenes.

I like the battle in the fog at the end.

307 AK-47%  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 2:28:56am

re: #305 Decatur Deb

The scene of the knights' horses shaking the petals from the apple orchard was my favorite in the movie. My 15-yr old liked other scenes.

At the time I saw it pretty much as Battlestar Glactica except with shiny knights instead of shiny spaceships...but it holds up well.

308 Kragar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 2:31:40am

re: #307 Expand Your Ground

At the time I saw it pretty much as Battlestar Glactica except with shiny knights instead of shiny spaceships...but it holds up well.

Better than that Clive Owen drek from a few years ago.

309 AK-47%  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 2:33:09am

re: #308 Kragar

Better than that Clive Owen drek from a few years ago.

that was truly dire...

310 Kragar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 2:33:49am

And with that, I must sleep

311 AK-47%  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 2:47:39am

and so does the thread...

312 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 2:57:10am

Morning Honcos.

313 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 3:49:25am

I put my computer into sleep mode and it wouldn't turn on again until this morning.

That's a hell of a literal sleep mode.

314 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 3:53:09am

OGDEN, Utah — An 84-year-old woman who jumped from a plane says she was honoring her late husband, a paratrooper, and marking their 60th wedding anniversary.
Beth Johnson took the parachute jump Saturday together with a relative who is a Salt Lake City fire captain
[Link: www.therepublic.com...]

315 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 4:46:53am

I'm not sure if this was a suicide attempt, but if it was if was a FAIL. (I don't think it actually was) This bridge is a whole 20 feet high. Oh noes!! About 5 miles away is the Skyway bridge which is 175 feet high.
[Link: www.bradenton.com...]

316 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 4:49:45am

re: #315 Cannadian Club Akbar

Make that 431 feet high. My bad. Not sure where the 175 number came from.

317 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 4:51:11am

re: #316 Cannadian Club Akbar

Fuck. I was right. 175. More coffee please.

318 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 4:59:49am

re: #317 Cannadian Club Akbar

Don't think there's a ton of difference in survive-ability between a 175 foot fall and 431 foot fall, anyway.

319 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 5:02:04am

re: #318 Obdicut

Don't think there's a ton of difference in survive-ability between a 175 foot fall and 431 foot fall, anyway.

Actually a few people have survived the jump. Nothing like failing at suicide to know life really does suck.
/

320 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 5:03:07am

This is why you shouldn't see your bride the night before your wedding.
Bride Accused of Murdering Groom Hours Before Wedding
[Link: gma.yahoo.com...]

321 Shropshire_Slasher  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 5:04:36am

re: #320 Cannadian Club Akbar

I betchya she was a firecracker in bed!

322 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 5:05:35am

re: #319 Cannadian Club Akbar

I forget who it is, but some great English writer decided to kill himself, so he waded out into the ocean and then started swimming-- he was just going to keep going until he ran out of energy and sank beneath the waves.

But-- he ran into a giant mass of jellyfish. Thousands and thousands of icky quivering blobs, and it disgusted him so much he turned around and swam back, and the whole experience was so surreal and ridiculous he decided against killing himself.

323 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 5:07:08am

re: #320 Cannadian Club Akbar

This story was listed on the GMA web site under the subject "entertainment". D'oh!!

324 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 5:07:26am

re: #322 Obdicut

Jellyfish suck.

325 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 5:08:28am

Dog steals cabbage. More on that story at 11.

Youtube Video
326 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 5:09:53am

Yegods, didn't think Red Dawn could have got more ridiculous, but I gues I was wrong:

Youtube Video
327 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 5:10:55am

re: #326 Targetpractice

The original ruled!! But that is when the USSR was still a super power.

328 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 5:11:55am

re: #326 Targetpractice

Is it still subversive anti-war propaganda?

329 Shropshire_Slasher  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 5:14:16am

Oklahoma woman and her dog accused of biting man: report


Read more: [Link: www.nypost.com...]

Woof!

330 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 5:14:27am

re: #328 Obdicut

Is it still subversive anti-war propaganda?

Nah, now it's basically another generic action movie. At least the original tried to act serious, this one seems like another "Good guys win because that's the way it's supposed to be."

331 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 5:16:15am

I'd like to see a John Sandford or a Stephen Hunter novel made into a movie.

332 Shropshire_Slasher  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 5:18:22am

re: #326 Targetpractice

The remake of Total Recall was a total flop, and this movie is already two years old, if I were a betting man...

333 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 5:21:09am

re: #332 Tommy's cone of shame

The remake of Total Recall was a total flop, and this movie is already two years old, if I were a betting man...

The original just rocked. There are some movies that are better left alone.

334 AK-47%  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 5:26:20am

re: #322 Obdicut

I forget who it is, but some great English writer decided to kill himself, so he waded out into the ocean and then started swimming-- he was just going to keep going until he ran out of energy and sank beneath the waves.

But-- he ran into a giant mass of jellyfish. Thousands and thousands of icky quivering blobs, and it disgusted him so much he turned around and swam back, and the whole experience was so surreal and ridiculous he decided against killing himself.

I read that Malcolm Lowry, a a one-hit-wonder (Under the Volcano) British author living in Canada, tried to kill himself by swimming out to sea but gave up and turned back. never read about any jellyfish being involved...

335 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 5:26:23am

re: #332 Tommy's cone of shame

The remake of Total Recall was a total flop, and this movie is already two years old, if I were a betting man...

Yeah, I have no problem with the idea of remakes, I actually read an article the other day saying that the concept of remakes is actually not all that bad. But some movies just can't be remade, because to do so is to ignore what made them unique to begin with. Modern CGI graphics and bigger explosions can't make up for losing that unique element.

336 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 5:29:53am

re: #334 Expand Your Ground

No, it was Evelyn Waugh, I just remembered. And I think he actually got hurt by them, that they were the stinging kind, so it was kind of like "If I still care about getting stung, then I probably shouldn't be killing myself."

337 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 5:30:10am

re: #335 Targetpractice

Remember when they remade The Shining? A load of crap. It might have been made for TV. Don't remember.

338 AK-47%  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 5:31:01am

re: #335 Targetpractice

Yeah, I have no problem with the idea of remakes, I actually read an article the other day saying that the concept of remakes is actually not all that bad. But some movies just can't be remade, because to do so is to ignore what made them unique to begin with. Modern CGI graphics and bigger explosions can't make up for losing that unique element.

I hope someday that they will do a decent remake of Starship Troopers.
The Verhoeven version missed the whole point of the book in my eyes: both the awesome powered suits that the soldiers fight in (missing in the film entirely), and the political aspect, namely that it evolved from the chaos that followed the breakdown of civilization after WWIII and simply stayed in place because nobody could offer a better alternative.

339 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 5:31:34am

re: #337 Cannadian Club Akbar

Remember when they remade The Shining? A load of crap. It might have been made for TV. Don't remember.

Yeah, TV miniseries. Some of King's stuff has done well as a mini-series, but once you've made a major motion picture out of it, putting it on TV is a serious downgrade.

340 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 5:32:25am

re: #339 Targetpractice

Yeah, TV miniseries. Some of King's stuff has done well as a mini-series, but once you've made a major motion picture out of it, putting it on TV is a serious downgrade.

IIRC, The Stand was good. And long!!

341 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 5:34:50am

re: #340 Cannadian Club Akbar

IIRC, The Stand was good. And long!!

Oh yeah, 8 hours IIRC. Damned good movie, but there's no way you could put it on the big screen without breaking it up into sections. The uncut version of the book is over 1000 pages.

342 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 5:35:59am

re: #341 Targetpractice

I would love to see the Baroque Cycle be made into a TV series.

343 AK-47%  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 5:36:43am

re: #339 Targetpractice

Yeah, TV miniseries. Some of King's stuff has done well as a mini-series, but once you've made a major motion picture out of it, putting it on TV is a serious downgrade.

I think the exact opposite applies to The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: it was a great series but a dismal failure as a film.

344 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 5:37:06am

Another movie that shouldn't have been remade? The Bad News Bears. When I was a kid I could hit the Saturday matinee for 50 cents and 50 more cents for a small popcorn and soda. Saw that movie about 20 times.

345 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 5:40:14am

re: #343 Expand Your Ground

I think the exact opposite applies to The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: it was a great series but a dismal failure as a film.

Ayep, some concepts just do not translate well to film. Especially when it spends virtual decades in development hell.

346 AK-47%  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 5:43:23am

re: #345 Targetpractice

Ayep, some concepts just do not translate well to film. Especially when it spends virtual decades in development hell.

Condensing it into film format meant leaving out most of the comments by the naarator, which are some of the funniest parts of the story.

Just like the hideous film version of Breakfast of Champions completely omitted the comments made by the author, which are also the best part of the novel.

347 A Mom Anon  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 5:50:39am

re: #240 Dark_Falcon

There is too a market for it,but you have to have a teaching degree. The lack of enthusiastic history teachers is part of the reason alot of kids don't like it or want to look into it outside of what it takes to pass a class. You have the facts down,if you could share your love of the subject,you'd be perfect for the job.

348 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 5:50:51am

A jet-skier who became stranded in Jamaica Bay easily breached JFK's security system by walking undetected through two runways and into a terminal.
[Link: www.nbcnewyork.com...]
100 million dollar security system.

349 Shropshire_Slasher  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 5:54:20am

re: #348 Cannadian Club Akbar

The fancier the technology the simpler the means to evade. I think Dr. Who said that more or less.

350 Gus  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 6:05:16am

Whew. Made it. Internet history detects I even went to sleep at a godly hour. Praise Hitchens.

351 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 6:09:07am

re: #348 Cannadian Club Akbar

First, it's really stupid to arrest him.

Second, the best security system in the world doesn't do shit if you have the security guards who are supposed to monitor it Facebooking all day.

352 Gus  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 6:14:35am

10 million!

This is funny shit. The amount of money being thrown in to "oust" Obama.

353 Varek Raith  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 6:16:10am

Fox's Doocy's Defense Of Paul Ryan: "What's The Matter With Being An Ideologue?"

Let's see...
1 : an impractical idealist
2 : an often blindly partisan advocate or adherent of a particular ideology

354 Decatur Deb  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 6:17:33am

re: #352 Gus

10 million!

[Embedded content]

This is funny shit. The amount of money being thrown in to "oust" Obama.

Won't be funny if it works. With any luck there will be a saturation point where spending more will produce degraded results.

355 Shropshire_Slasher  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 6:20:10am

Who knew Kate Bush had a Christmas Special in 1979?

Youtube Video
356 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 6:20:30am

re: #354 Decatur Deb

I'm hoping that the unique circumstances of this election-- that Romney is so tied to his wealth, to the elite, to the ultra-capitalists-- will make the amount of spending work against him as well as for him. I really hope so, because i think a defeat for the Koch's and Adelson and the rest of the people who think being rich gives them more right to affect democracy in the US than other people would be very healthy: I think it might stop them throwing so much money in, if they're not getting shit.

It might just make them double down, though.

357 kirkspencer  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 6:22:01am

re: #337 Cannadian Club Akbar

Remember when they remade The Shining? A load of crap. It might have been made for TV. Don't remember.

On the other hand, I thought it better than the movie. Oh, sure, Nicholson was great and it was a good movie. But the TV version meshed better with the book.

358 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 6:24:09am

re: #357 kirkspencer

On the other hand, I thought it better than the movie. Oh, sure, Nicholson was great and it was a good movie. But the TV version meshed better with the book.

I think King like the TV version better.

359 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 6:25:51am

Check this out when you need to waste some time.
[Link: www.mandatory.com...]

360 kirkspencer  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 6:26:11am

Politically, this announcement should give Romney a boost in the polls to the tune of 4 or 5% for about two weeks. Then comes the convention which should do the same again.

So for the next month the average numbers for Romney should tie Obama, maybe leading him by a point or two. If Romney can't get more than 2 on Obama (averages, not a few), this didn't help. And if he can't even tie during the next four weeks he's pretty much doomed barring Major Incident.

361 Gus  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 6:28:59am

re: #356 Obdicut

I'm hoping that the unique circumstances of this election-- that Romney is so tied to his wealth, to the elite, to the ultra-capitalists-- will make the amount of spending work against him as well as for him. I really hope so, because i think a defeat for the Koch's and Adelson and the rest of the people who think being rich gives them more right to affect democracy in the US than other people would be very healthy: I think it might stop them throwing so much money in, if they're not getting shit.

It might just make them double down, though.

Billionaire old white guys for Romney. I was just going to mention Adelson. There's a whole slew of others like Foster "Aspirin as Birth Control" Friess -- the old fashioned sexist asshole.

362 darthstar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 6:32:39am

Mornin' everyone...start my new job today, but first...politics!

363 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 6:34:29am

re: #360 kirkspencer

Politically, this announcement should give Romney a boost in the polls to the tune of 4 or 5% for about two weeks. Then comes the convention which should do the same again.

So for the next month the average numbers for Romney should tie Obama, maybe leading him by a point or two. If Romney can't get more than 2 on Obama (averages, not a few), this didn't help. And if he can't even tie during the next four weeks he's pretty much doomed barring Major Incident.

At this point, barring either A) major economic downturn, B) major foreign disaster, or C) major scandal, that Obama's got a pretty good chance of winning. I won't call it a lock, because even barring those, it's still plausible that the voters may decide that things aren't getting better fast enough that a change in leadership is called for. But without those three, it largely comes down to who can better sell their proposals to the public. And so far, Obama has a major lead in just having proposals to begin with, while Romney still seems to be a campaign in the process of forming.

364 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 6:34:30am

re: #362 darthstar

Mornin' everyone...start my new job today, but first...politics!

[Embedded content]

New job? A step up, I'm sure?

365 Gus  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 6:36:38am

re: #362 darthstar

Mornin' everyone...start my new job today, but first...politics!

[Embedded content]

Ha! Looks like your typical demographic. Bunch of angry redneck white dudes.

Dey tuk er jobs bro'!

366 kirkspencer  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 6:38:23am

re: #363 Targetpractice

Fully agree.

I realized over the weekend while doing other tasks why the VP selection was done now. It's those three polls giving Obama leads of 7, 7, and 9 points; especially the last since it was from Fox.

One poll is an outlier. Three is a measurable effect and the only question is whether it's a trend or a spike. Romney's team is hoping to massage it into a spike -- far less damaging that way.

367 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 6:40:09am

re: #366 kirkspencer

Fully agree.

I realized over the weekend while doing other tasks why the VP selection was done now. It's those three polls giving Obama leads of 7, 7, and 9 points; especially the last since it was from Fox.

One poll is an outlier. Three is a measurable effect and the only question is whether it's a trend or a spike. Romney's team is hoping to massage it into a spike -- far less damaging that way.

Indeed, and I have little doubt that the media wishes for the same as well, if only to maintain the "horse race" that helps them sell advertising. Obama taking and maintaining a commanding lead at this point in the game would deny them the opportunity to capitalize on the chance for a "close race."

368 darthstar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 6:41:23am

re: #364 Cannadian Club Akbar

New job? A step up, I'm sure?

yep...moving from "manager" to "director"...though with a smaller company and a smaller (for now) team. Building from scratch, as it were.

369 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 6:44:21am

re: #367 Targetpractice

Agreed. Remember the Wisconsin recall with Walker. I think it was Wolf Blitzer (although I may be wrong) who was talking about how close it was and stay tuned this could go into the morning hours. Then, not so much.
*I know the press uses exit polling in reporting but they also like to create news.

370 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 6:45:12am

re: #368 darthstar

yep...moving from "manager" to "director"...though with a smaller company and a smaller (for now) team. Building from scratch, as it were.

I look for companies that are small so I can grow with them. It only makes sense.

371 darthstar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 6:50:47am
372 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 6:51:50am

Drudge has a link that says Martha Radditz is gonna moderate the VP debate. I clicked the link and it went to a Romney donate page. Huh.

373 Gus  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 6:52:42am

Romney has chosen Paul Catholic Randroid “Tax Cuts for the Rich” Ryan for his running mate? I guess the American Plutocracy has decided there is no point in pretending anymore.
-- PZ Myers

374 Lidane  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 6:52:45am

These people are shameless in their hypocrisy:

Romney Claims Obama ‘Robbed Medicare’ To Distract From GOP Plan To End Medicare

375 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 6:53:19am

re: #372 Cannadian Club Akbar

Drudge has a link that says Martha Radditz is gonna moderate the VP debate. I clicked the link and it went to a Romney donate page. Huh.

Drudge refreshed the page and now the headlines about the debates are there but with no links.

376 Interesting Times  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 6:54:40am

re: #372 Cannadian Club Akbar

Drudge has a link that says Martha Radditz is gonna moderate the VP debate. I clicked the link and it went to a Romney donate page. Huh.

LOL subtle 9_9

But if the Martha Radditz report is true, that's good - hopefully it's the foreign policy debate she moderates (since she's the ABC News foreign correspondent and Afghanistan war reporter). She also seems to be one of their more level-headed reporters, as opposed to slavering GOP sycophant Jon Karl.

377 darthstar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 6:54:59am

What a pussy.

Mitt Romney is canceling a planned campaign stop Monday in Orlando after a whirlwind weekend in which the presumptive Republican nominee introduced Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) as his running mate.

According to the Orlando Sentinel, the campaign said late Sunday that the presidential hopeful was "too exhausted to make the trip" after crisscrossing Virginia, North Carolina and Wisconsin over the weekend.

It's only mid-August and you haven't even made it to the convention yet.

378 Interesting Times  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 6:56:29am

re: #377 darthstar

What a pussy.

It's only mid-August and you haven't even made it to the convention yet.

Oooh, on a related note, the tweet I quoted in #220 is indeed correct :)

Lulz again.

379 darthstar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 6:56:31am

re: #375 Cannadian Club Akbar

Drudge refreshed the page and now the headlines about the debates are there but with no links.

Does he have employees, or does Drudge do that whole site by himself?

380 Gus  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 6:57:00am

More "government work" for Ryan...

381 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 6:57:01am

re: #377 darthstar

Might be some events looking weak there so call it "due to fatigue" and go for the crowds at a better rally.

382 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 6:57:45am

re: #377 darthstar

What a pussy.

It's only mid-August and you haven't even made it to the convention yet.

This actually surprises me considering the I-4 corridor (which connects Tampa to Orlando) is heavily Republican.

383 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 6:58:52am

re: #379 darthstar

Does he have employees, or does Drudge do that whole site by himself?

I would think he has an employee or 2 by now. Fuck, his site has been around for 15 years now.

384 darthstar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:00:02am

Crap...7am...gotta run the dogs and get ready for work. Can't just roll in at 10:30 and leave at 3pm like I did at my last job. This will take some getting used to.

385 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:00:27am

re: #383 Cannadian Club Akbar

I would think he has an employee or 2 by now. Fuck, his site has been around for 15 years now.

Never updated the web design in all that time.

386 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:00:54am

re: #384 darthstar

Crap...7am...gotta run the dogs and get ready for work. Can't just roll in at 10:30 and leave at 3pm like I did at my last job. This will take some getting used to.

Is this why you have a new job?
///

387 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:01:53am

re: #385 Learned Mother of Zion

Never updated the web design in all that time.

Nope. Just moved shit around and added links of columnist.

388 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:04:04am

The people being greeted to the RNC will have pamphlets in their welcome packages telling them it will be hot so drink plenty of water. Me think people will be able to figure that out after being outside for about 5 minutes.:)

389 Gus  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:05:04am
390 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:05:14am

re: #378 Interesting Times

Oooh, on a related note, the tweet I quoted in #220 is indeed correct :)

[Embedded content]

Lulz again.

I'm still trying to figure out the logic that says that, with Florida being a "Must Win" state, picking the guy most likely to sour the elderly vote instead of the guy who might have given a chance to make in-roads to the state as well as to the Hispanic community is the better plan.

391 Interesting Times  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:06:01am

re: #388 Cannadian Club Akbar

The people being greeted to the RNC will have pamphlets in their welcome packages telling them it will be hot so drink plenty of water. Me think people will be able to figure that out after being outside for about 5 minutes.:)

Durr hurr, we're still in a period of global cooling.

Herp-de-derp,
James Inhofe

392 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:07:03am

re: #390 Targetpractice

I'm still trying to figure out the logic that says that, with Florida being a "Must Win" state, picking the guy most likely to sour the elderly vote instead of the guy who might have given a chance to make in-roads to the state as well as to the Hispanic community is the better plan.

I think Rubio might have declined to take the VP spot if offered. He might and prolly is eying 2016.

393 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:07:54am

re: #391 Interesting Times

89 degrees in August is a Florida cold front!!!

394 AK-47%  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:07:56am

re: #392 Cannadian Club Akbar

I think Rubio might have declined to take the VP spot if offered. He might and prolly is eying 2016.

Anybody with any sense in that party would have given up on 2012 and started looking down the line.

395 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:09:08am

re: #394 Expand Your Ground

Anybody with any sense in that party would have given up on 2012 and started looking down the line.

It would also give Rubio plenty of time in the Senate.

396 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:10:11am

re: #392 Cannadian Club Akbar

I think Rubio might have declined to take the VP spot if offered. He might and prolly is eying 2016.

I've got the feeling that, when the tell-all books start popping up in a year or so, the general theme will be that the best VP possibilities turned down the offer, leaving a similar scenario to Romney's own nomination where they had to pick the best of what was left. And Ryan was a split-second decision made to paper over the Romneycare foul as well as get Obama's rising poll numbers out of the news for at least a week.

397 Interesting Times  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:10:37am
398 Lidane  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:12:41am

re: #394 Expand Your Ground

Anybody with any sense in that party would have given up on 2012 and started looking down the line.

Exactly. It's why the primaries were filled with second and third stringers like Santorum and Bachmann. Anyone with serious designs on a political future sat 2012 out and is looking at 2016.

Should Obama win again, 2016 becomes an open run at the White House, since I seriously doubt Biden will run for POTUS after 8 years as VP and nearly 30 years in the Senate before that. It's also why people like Rubio turned down being Romney's VP. Why hitch your wagon to a potential loser now when you can wait a few years and make a clean run?

399 Gus  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:13:28am
400 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:14:30am

re: #398 Lidane

Also, there is an ebb and flow of parties to occupy the White House. Presidents in a second term generally (not always) have crap approval ratings, especially near the end of their term.

401 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:15:48am

re: #399 Gus

He took pills in the courtroom? Not a serious attempt.

402 Bulworth  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:15:56am
“Everything I said at the 2008 convention about then-candidate (Barack) Obama still stands today, and in fact the predictions made about the very unqualified and inexperienced community organizer’s plans to ‘fundamentally transform’ our country are unfortunately coming true,”

Does half-gov know OBL is dead?

403 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:17:05am

re: #389 Gus

The Ryan Poor-Boy? Two slices of bread and you wish you had some meat.

(apologies to the Blues Brothers)

404 AK-47%  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:17:27am

re: #402 Bulworth

"Everything I said at the 2008 convention about then-candidate (Barack) Obama still stands today, and in fact the predictions made about the very unqualified and inexperienced community organizer’s plans to ‘fundamentally transform’ our country are unfortunately coming true,”"

Does half-gov know OBL is dead?

As told by the eminently qualified half-term governor of a state with a population one-sixth the size of Chicago...

405 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:17:59am

re: #403 William Barnett-Lewis

The Ryan Poo-Boy? Two slices of bread and you wish you had some meat.

(apologies to the Blues Brothers)

I think that was SNL with Steve Martin and Dan Akroyd.

406 makeitstop  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:20:01am

re: #405 Cannadian Club Akbar

I think that was SNL with Steve Martin and Dan Akroyd.

From the song 'Rubber Biscuit.'

A 'wish sandwich...'

407 lawhawk  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:21:31am

re: #388 Cannadian Club Akbar

Some folks might not understand just how hot/humid it can get and get dehydrated. It's sensible.

What isn't sensible is that the GOP still proudly holds to anti-global warming views and that climate change isn't going on.

It is. And we're already seeing the results. Along the East Coast, we're seeing water temps more than 10 degrees warmer than usual. That means that there's a potential for more and stronger hurricanes and tropical systems up the coast, and that could mean far more damage and loss of life.

408 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:24:14am

re: #406 makeitstop

didn't know that. Thanks.

409 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:27:23am

re: #407 lawhawk

Don't get me wrong. People need to be informed. I'm fine with that. But I did put the over/under of people who need to go to the hospital at 425. BUT, I do hope the anarchist wear all black with bandanas covering their faces. Hard to run from the cops when you can't breath.

410 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:33:41am

Good morning lizards!

Tomatoes are coming in by the bucket full now. I picked five 5 gallon buckets yesterday. Woo hoo! Many more on the way :)

411 Interesting Times  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:33:54am

re: #407 lawhawk

What isn't sensible is that the GOP still proudly holds to anti-global warming views and that climate change isn't going on.

It would be hilarious if one company had an exclusive contract to sell water at the GOP convention and plastered every bottle with this chart plus a label saying "Al Gore was right" :P

412 Lidane  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:33:55am

re: #407 lawhawk

Everyone knows that all that's just liberal science spin meant to confuse people and make them think that global warming is real.

The Earth is cooling. Everything else is just God's will. Why do you hate America?

///

413 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:39:46am

Gunmen kill Egyptian tribal leader and son in Sinai

Tribal leader Khalaf Al-Menahy and his son were shot dead by militants on their way back from a conference organized by tribal leaders to denounce militancy," said the security source in Sinai.

414 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:40:22am

re: #410 NJDhockeyfan

Good morning lizards!

Tomatoes are coming in by the bucket full now. I picked five 5 gallon buckets yesterday. Woo hoo! Many more on the way :)

Do you know how to can veggies? My mom used to go to a u-pick it tomato farm and grab about 150lbs of tomatoes. Red sauce, ranchero sauce, pizza sauce. You didn't get near her kitchen for about a week.

415 makeitstop  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:41:37am

re: #407 lawhawk

Some folks might not understand just how hot/humid it can get and get dehydrated. It's sensible.

What isn't sensible is that the GOP still proudly holds to anti-global warming views and that climate change isn't going on.

It is. And we're already seeing the results. Along the East Coast, we're seeing water temps more than 10 degrees warmer than usual. That means that there's a potential for more and stronger hurricanes and tropical systems up the coast, and that could mean far more damage and loss of life.

I was talking to a friend about that yesterday, after Long Island got hit with a tornado within a mile of my house and waterspouts were spotted on the Great South Bay.

This is the future. We may as well get used to tornado warnings on LI, because they're not going away. If anything, they'll be more frequent.

416 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:41:57am

re: #414 Cannadian Club Akbar

Do you know how to can veggies? My mom used to go to a u-pick it tomato farm and grab about 150lbs of tomatoes. Red sauce, ranchero sauce, pizza sauce. You didn't get near her kitchen for about a week.

Oh yeah, my wife is canning some of the tomatoes and making tomato sauce with the rest of them. We will be all set for the winter, it's been a stellar summer.

417 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:45:04am

re: #416 NJDhockeyfan

Oh yeah, my wife is canning some of the tomatoes and making tomato sauce with the rest of them. We will be all set for the winter, it's been a stellar summer.

My friend is working for a guy who also owns a farm. Tons of soybeans and tons of corn. With the drought in the Midwest, dude is gonna be rich from his corn crop alone. Plus, my friend brings corn home every night. Yummy!!

418 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:45:38am

re: #413 Killgore Trout

Gunmen kill Egyptian tribal leader and son in Sinai

Things are going to heat up fairly quickly it looks like...

Another source close to militants in Sinai said hundreds of them had organized a secret meeting on Sunday night to discuss their response to the killing of five Islamist militants by Egyptian soldiers earlier on Sunday.

"They agreed that the reaction will be harsh," the source said.

419 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:46:41am

re: #417 Cannadian Club Akbar

My friend is working for a guy who also owns a farm. Tons of soybeans and tons of corn. With the drought in the Midwest, dude is gonna be rich from his corn crop alone. Plus, my friend brings corn home every night. Yummy!!

I have some corn. Most of the seeds didn't come up but I bet we have a couple dozen ready to pick right now.

420 kirkspencer  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:47:48am

re: #406 makeitstop

From the song 'Rubber Biscuit.'

A 'wish sandwich...'

Yep. A 50's song by the Chips (sorta remembered but had to look it up for the details). Blues brothers are most famous cover but far from the only one.

Youtube Video
421 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:49:55am

Rebels say they've downed a military jet as fresh violence rages across Syria

Aleppo, Syria (CNN) -- Syrian rebels said Monday they shot down a military jet, an assertion denied by the government, which blamed the crash on a "technical failure."

Video posted by the rebel forces shows a jet framed in a cloudless sky being shot at, catching fire and falling out of frame.

"A MiG warplane shot down in Mouhassen!" says an excited man off-camera, citing a location in Deir Ezzor northeast of the capital city of Damascus. "God is great!"

CNN cannot independently confirm the authenticity of the video.

422 lawhawk  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:50:33am

re: #415 makeitstop

I have relatives that don't live far from where that tornado touched down last week. We've had more of those storms in the past two years than I can recall. Lots more severe weather - at the extremes.

423 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:50:59am

re: #421 NJDhockeyfan

Russian MiGs? Do they know it isn't the '80's anymore?
/

424 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:51:03am

re: #414 Cannadian Club Akbar

Do you know how to can veggies? My mom used to go to a u-pick it tomato farm and grab about 150lbs of tomatoes. Red sauce, ranchero sauce, pizza sauce. You didn't get near her kitchen for about a week.

My brother was canning zuchinni relish and pickles this past weekend. He also said he was getting bumper crops of tomatoes and jalapeno peppers. So I should be able to get myself some nice canned homemade marinara sauce come Labor Day. :)

My father processed his garden output (tomatoes, green peppers, onions) by making large (multiple gallon) batches of chili and then freezing it in 1/2 gal cleaned out milk containers (the waxed cardboard kind). The freezer in the basement had a whole layer of frozen chili laid up and marked by cook date.

I got through part of college on the latter. I'd come home for a weekend, take one or two of those back to the dorm at school, thaw them out and cook them down a bit further (I like chili thicker than he made it) using a
stove in the kitchenette and then getting a number of meals out of that.

425 jaunte  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:51:14am

Floating island the size of New Jersey discovered in South Pacific
Not Bali Hai

426 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:52:53am

re: #424 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

My mom and stepdad were really tight on money one Christmas. I got a basketful of canned goods as a gift. Beats the hell out of a sweater.:)

427 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:53:29am

re: #426 Cannadian Club Akbar

My mom and stepdad were really tight on money one Christmas. I got a basketful of canned goods as a gift. Beats the hell out of a sweater.:)

You cant eat a sweater.

428 Bulworth  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:53:54am

From the Twitters:

@KailiJoy Sarah Palin accepts RNC's invitation for her to not be there.

429 lawhawk  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:54:09am

CNN is reporting that rebel forces have apparently committed war crimes/crimes against humanity - video (graphic) shows groups throwing individuals off a rooftop.

We've had all manner of atrocity committed there - whether it's massacres, attacks on civilians, or now these reprisals against government officials by defenestration.

430 Aye Pod  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:56:13am

Ken Livingston, bitch.

Youtube Video
431 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:57:23am

re: #429 lawhawk

Yikes!! But I'll tell you this: if people are being thrown off of buildings, I won't be standing underneath it.

432 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:57:58am

re: #429 lawhawk

CNN is reporting that rebel forces have apparently committed war crimes/crimes against humanity - video (graphic) shows groups throwing individuals off a rooftop.

We've had all manner of atrocity committed there - whether it's massacres, attacks on civilians, or now these reprisals against government officials by defenestration.

There is no telling if it was carried out by al Qaeda or the rebels themselves. It's one ugly situation.

433 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 7:59:39am

re: #429 lawhawk

CNN is reporting that rebel forces have apparently committed war crimes/crimes against humanity - video (graphic) shows groups throwing individuals off a rooftop.

We've had all manner of atrocity committed there - whether it's massacres, attacks on civilians, or now these reprisals against government officials by defenestration.

Liveleak seems to be the center of a propaganda war. Lots of videos titled thing like "Syrian Rebels shoot children, run over woman's head with truck" etc. I don't know how genuine the videos are, I can't bring myself to watch them.

434 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 8:01:48am

Al-Qaeda flags fly over rebel-held Syria

There has recently been a small stir in the American media, as media organizations from the New York Times to the Wall Street Journal to the Associated Press have finally gotten around to acknowledging a "presence" of al-Qaeda and like-minded jihadist groups among the Syrian rebel forces seeking to topple the regime of Bashar al-Assad.

It is difficult to see what the cause of the excitement is. After all, such a presence has been blindingly obvious for many months: whether as a result of the dozens of suicide attacks that have plagued Syria or the numerous videos that have emerged showing rebel forces or supporters proudly displaying the distinctive black flag of al-Qaeda.

But observations made by German journalist Daniel Etter during a recent visit to rebel-controlled towns near the embattled city of Aleppo suggest that there is no mere "presence" of jihadists among the rebels: religiously-inspired mujahideen is what the rebels are. The real question is whether there is a presence of anything else. Etter's report, which appeared in the leading German daily Die Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, also provides evidence that rebel authorities are subjecting civilians to arbitrary detention and torture and summarily executing captured members of the regular Syrian armed forces.

In the town of Maraa, north of Aleppo, Etter saw some 120 prisoners, apparently civilians, "herded into a large classroom" in what had previously been a school. Many of the prisoners showed signs of abuse. The prison director, whom Etter identifies only as "Jumbo," refused to allow Etter to speak with them alone. Etter notes that Jumbo "looks like his name." "Jumbo is not someone with whom you would like to pick a fight," Etter writes:

[N]ot someone whom as a prisoner you would like to have as your jail keeper. Thus the detainees say that their wounds and bruises are the product of falls or shrapnel. They say how well they are treated here, and they swear loyalty to the Free Syrian Army. Much of what they say is not credible.

435 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 8:04:50am

"Americans For Prosperity" (for the 1%) is sending out SPAM emails promoting unregulated fracking.

436 Mocking Jay  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 8:08:06am

re: #435 Learned Mother of Zion

"Americans For Prosperity" (for the 1%) is sending out SPAM emails promoting unregulated fracking.

They're just trying to shake things up...

437 Lidane  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 8:09:27am

A deadbeat dad says what?

GOP Rep. Joe Walsh: Muslims Are ‘Trying To Kill Americans Every Week’

“One thing I’m sure of is that there are people in this country – there is a radical strain of Islam in this country -– it’s not just over there –- trying to kill Americans every week. It is a real threat, and it is a threat that is much more at home now than it was after 9/11,” Walsh said.

Walsh went on to claim that radical Islam had found its way into the Chicago suburbs, including some that he represents.

“It’s here. It’s in Elk Grove. It’s in Addison. It’s in Elgin. It’s here,” he said.

438 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 8:15:31am

The one central theme of the GOP political campaign is... FEAR.

It has been the guiding feature for at least the last four years, and it is so engrained in their psyche that they won't give it up. And the claims and theatrics are getting more and more hysterical.

The real question is whether this approach will be sufficiently rejected at some point that it will force the GOP towards something resembling sanity.

439 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 8:17:13am

re: #437 Lidane

A deadbeat dad says what?

GOP Rep. Joe Walsh: Muslims Are ‘Trying To Kill Americans Every Week’

Wonder when the last killing by a crazed muslim happened in the US? Must have been a while ago. Maybe the radical muslims need to start taking lessons from the radical christians. Radical christians seem to have a pretty consistent string of attacks/arson/terrorism/killings, at least more so than the radical muslims in Chicago or anywhere else in the US for that matter.

440 kirkspencer  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 8:17:14am

re: #434 NJDhockeyfan

Al-Qaeda flags fly over rebel-held Syria

sadly, not surprising. I saw several reports and interviews, which boiled down to this:

[rebel leader] "We asked the US and the west for help. They gave us words, they sent some people to tell us what to do, they closed the borders. We asked the world for help, and they watched. Al Qaeda came and offered us bullets, bodies, food, and money.

When given the choice between words and deeds, we chose deeds."

441 Gus  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 8:17:49am

re: #437 Lidane

A deadbeat dad says what?

GOP Rep. Joe Walsh: Muslims Are ‘Trying To Kill Americans Every Week’

The Japanese are trying to kill Americans every week!

//

442 GunstarGreen  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 8:19:32am

re: #404 Expand Your Ground

"Everything I said at the 2008 convention about then-candidate (Barack) Obama still stands today, and in fact the predictions made about the very unqualified and inexperienced community organizer’s plans to ‘fundamentally transform’ our country are unfortunately coming true,”"

As told by the eminently qualified half-term governor of a state with a population one-sixth the size of Chicago...

Ex-Half-Governor Moosehead is actually being somewhat subtle for once (probably accidentally). She's spilling the beans that the GOP criticisms of Obama have nothing to do with how experienced he is.

443 Interesting Times  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 8:22:49am
444 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 8:25:21am

Wingnut DerpTweet of the Day

Okey dokey, so don't vote for Romney then!

445 Gus  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 8:25:37am
446 Gus  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 8:26:33am

True story. Romney is taking a break because of exhaustion. Which leads to a serious question? Is Romney even up to the task of being POTUS? Whimp factor dialed to 11.

447 Gus  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 8:26:58am

re: #443 Interesting Times

[Embedded content]

Oops!

448 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 8:27:55am

re: #447 Gus

Oops!

Neither of you yelled "jinx". I'm a bit disappointed.
/

449 Gus  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 8:28:47am
450 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 8:32:44am

FAIL

451 aagcobb  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 8:33:03am

re: #397 Interesting Times

[Embedded content]

No aid

452 bratwurst  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 8:34:02am

re: #437 Lidane

A deadbeat dad says what?

GOP Rep. Joe Walsh: Muslims Are ‘Trying To Kill Americans Every Week’

Walsh has a new ad on local TV here bragging that he refuses House member health insurance and GUARANTEES he will serve no more than three terms. I can guarantee he will not serve more than one!

453 aagcobb  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 8:36:35am

re: #450 Learned Mother of Zion

FAIL

[Embedded content]

It would be inconsistent of Romney to be consistent.

454 allegro  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 8:38:26am

re: #446 Gus

True story. Romney is taking a break because of exhaustion. Which leads to a serious question? Is Romney even up to the task of being POTUS? Whimp factor dialed to 11.

His whining is getting exhausting.

455 Gus  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 8:41:05am

I think Romney/Ryan do have a foreign policy position and a very well known position...

WAR!

Filed under same old tired necon bullshit. PNAC part II.

456 Gus  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 8:42:30am

The Campaign - Official Trailer (HD)

Youtube Video
457 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 8:42:54am

Supporters of hate at UC are not happy with a findings report on rabid anti-Semitism on campus and have a petition going around asking the school administrators to ignore the report.

Students urge University of California to dismiss findings of widespread anti-Semitism on campuses

A report alleging systematic anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism on University of California (UC) campuses has come under fire from a group of students and faculty who say the university ought to disregard its findings.

The study, commissioned by UC President Mark Yudof and executed by his Advisory Council found that, among other things, “the use of the swastika drawn next to or integrated with, the Jewish Star of David is commonplace” on campus.

“Jewish students are confronting significant and difficult climate issues as a result of activities on campus which focus specifically on Israel, its right to exist and its treatment of Palestinians,” wrote the authors of the Jewish Campus Climate Report, which was published on July 9th by the on Campus Climate, Culture, and Inclusion advisory council.

A coalition of students, faculty, and staff, however, have started a petition, which has garnered 2,269 signatures, demanding Yudof and administrators “disregard” what they say is a “sub-standard and biased” report.

...A comment left by an individual identifying as “Shakeel Syed,” said “we will not stop to remind Israel of its apartheid policies with or without your stupid report until apartheid ends.”

Another commenter identifying himself as “Bud Mousa” wrote that the report is “just more Jewish strong arming, due to heavy Jewish/Israeli influence in the UC system.”

458 Lidane  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 8:46:20am

re: #450 Learned Mother of Zion

It would also disqualify St. Ronald of Reagan.

459 Gus  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 8:47:07am
460 Gus  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 8:48:06am

re: #457 NJDhockeyfan

Supporters of hate at UC are not happy with a findings report on rabid anti-Semitism on campus and have a petition going around asking the school administrators to ignore the report.

Students urge University of California to dismiss findings of widespread anti-Semitism on campuses

Interesting. Written by Oliver Darcy...

461 Gus  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 8:49:21am
462 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 8:52:14am

re: #457 NJDhockeyfan

Another commenter identifying himself as “Bud Mousa” wrote that the report is “just more Jewish strong arming, due to heavy Jewish/Israeli influence in the UC system.”

Joooooos!

463 Gus  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 8:53:04am

re: #462 Killgore Trout

Joooooos!

Moozlims!

464 Lidane  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 8:53:04am

Surprise, surprise -- Mittens has had a change of heart about that business requirement thingy:

Romney Suddenly Sees Ryan’s Washington Experience As An Asset

It's going to be a long slog to November.

465 allegro  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 8:54:28am

re: #464 Lidane

Surprise, surprise -- Mittens has had a change of heart about that business requirement thingy:

Romney Suddenly Sees Ryan’s Washington Experience As An Asset

It's going to be a long slog to November.

I think eye rolling is a good exercise at least. Maybe we can get something positive from the GOP histrionics and bullshit.

466 Gus  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 8:55:00am
Oliver Darcy
@oliverdarcy

Editor of Digital Media at @campusreform. Co-founder of [Link: ExposingLeftists.com...]. #Resist44. #Nike. Obsessed w/ #starwars #running #mlb. Tweets are my own.
Washington D.C. ·

Oh yeah. He's right up your alley: [Link: exposingleftists.com...]

467 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 8:55:56am

re: #463 Gus

Moozlims!

I don't see any muslims mentioned in the article but there appears to be a problem on campus with the Jewish community.

“the use of the swastika drawn next to or integrated with, the Jewish Star of David is commonplace” on campus.

468 Gus  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 8:56:57am

re: #467 NJDhockeyfan

I don't see any muslims mentioned in the article but there appears to be a problem on campus with the Jewish community.

I doubt it. This is your typical right-wing anti LEFTIST ACADEMIA propaganda. There may be a problem but they're going to word to make is seem worse than it is and mostly to slander TEH LEFT!!

469 jaunte  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 8:57:14am
470 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 8:58:29am

re: #468 Gus

I doubt it. This is your typical right-wing anti LEFTIST ACADEMIA propaganda. There may be a problem but they're going to word to make is seem worse than it is and mostly to slander TEH LEFT!!

Is this guy also a right-wing anti LEFTIST ACADEMIA propagandist?

The study, commissioned by UC President Mark Yudof and executed by his Advisory Council

471 lawhawk  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 8:58:47am

Neo-Nazi threat expanding in Germany, particularly in what was formerly East Germany.

There's some parallels to the US experience here. After 9/11, the focus was on thwarting Islamic terror plots, but right wing extremism never went away. Now, more than a decade past 9/11, and the right wing extremism is emerging as a threat, particularly because of xenophobia and anti-immigrant tensions rising due to economic woes across Europe.

472 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:01:03am

re: #467 NJDhockeyfan

I don't see any muslims mentioned in the article but there appears to be a problem on campus with the Jewish community.

The Apartheid Week events are really ugly events and they've been well documented over the years.

473 Gus  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:01:35am

re: #470 NJDhockeyfan

Is this guy also a right-wing anti LEFTIST ACADEMIA propagandist?


CampusReform.org... a Leadership Institute Project... Morton Blackwell
President...

Thanks for the morning right wing propaganda link.

474 Gus  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:02:31am

re: #473 Gus


CampusReform.org... a Leadership Institute Project... Morton Blackwell
President...

Thanks for the morning right wing propaganda link.

Council for National Policy

Blackwell has been a member since 1984 of the Council for National Policy, a group of politically active conservatives. Founders included Richard Viguerie, the Virginia direct-mail specialist, Paul Weyrich, Howard Phillips of the Constitution Party, and Phyllis Schlafly, a St. Louis activist who led the opposition to the proposed Equal Rights Amendment. Another founder was Tim LaHaye, author of the Left Behind novels. The council does not make its proceedings public. When he first ran for president, George W. Bush addressed the Council for National Policy. The 2000 speech is still secret.

475 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:02:54am

re: #460 Gus

Interesting. Written by Oliver Darcy...

There may be an actual anti-Semitism problem, but since there's no link to the study performed or why there's criticism of the study, you're apparently just supposed to take the word of the author.


Then you read the others articles he wrote, and note the "anti-white racism" freakout about the Un-Fair Campaign. on the site.

476 Gus  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:04:27am

re: #475 The Ghost of a Flea

There may be an actual anti-Semitism problem, but since there's no link to the study performed or why there's criticism of the study, you're apparently just supposed to take the word of the author.

Then you read the others articles he wrote, and note the "anti-white racism" freakout about the Un-Fair Campaign. on the site.

Yep. You can smell the wingnutty stench from a mile away.

477 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:04:38am

re: #472 Killgore Trout

The Apartheid Week events are really ugly events and they've been well documented over the years.

Just forget the history of hate at that campus, that's not important. It's the anti-leftist academia propagandists that are the real problem!

478 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:04:52am

re: #415 makeitstop

I was talking to a friend about that yesterday, after Long Island got hit with a tornado within a mile of my house and waterspouts were spotted on the Great South Bay.

This is the future. We may as well get used to tornado warnings on LI, because they're not going away. If anything, they'll be more frequent.

As troubling to me as weird weather patterns is the probability that warmer temps will allow species of insect, mold, and fungus to migrate to and flourish in areas that they do not now populate consequentially. This could bring with it all kinds of fancy new crop diseases, predation of beneficial insects (think: pollinators), and other fun things farmers would rather not deal with.

479 AK-47%  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:05:03am

re: #438 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

The one central theme of the GOP political campaign is... FEAR.

It has been the guiding feature for at least the last four years, and it is so engrained in their psyche that they won't give it up. And the claims and theatrics are getting more and more hysterical.

The real question is whether this approach will be sufficiently rejected at some point that it will force the GOP towards something resembling sanity.

What else can Romney run on? His tenure as governor? Bain Capitalß The Ryan budget? Fear and loathing and the lousy economy, which the GOP has done nothing to address.

480 Gus  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:06:16am

re: #475 The Ghost of a Flea

There may be an actual anti-Semitism problem, but since there's no link to the study performed or why there's criticism of the study, you're apparently just supposed to take the word of the author.

Then you read the others articles he wrote, and note the "anti-white racism" freakout about the Un-Fair Campaign. on the site.

Outrage!

481 AK-47%  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:07:05am

re: #457 NJDhockeyfan

Supporters of hate at UC are not happy with a findings report on rabid anti-Semitism on campus and have a petition going around asking the school administrators to ignore the report.

Students urge University of California to dismiss findings of widespread anti-Semitism on campuses

Conflating anti-Israel sentiment with antisemitism again? Please! Israeli politics and Judaism certainly overlap, but they are not identical!!!

482 Gus  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:07:44am

jihadwatch site:campusreform.org

483 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:09:57am

re: #471 lawhawk

Neo-Nazi threat expanding in Germany, particularly in what was formerly East Germany.

There's some parallels to the US experience here. After 9/11, the focus was on thwarting Islamic terror plots, but right wing extremism never went away. Now, more than a decade past 9/11, and the right wing extremism is emerging as a threat, particularly because of xenophobia and anti-immigrant tensions rising due to economic woes across Europe.

From your link:

Neo-Nazis have found a home in the ex-Communist eastern portion of Germany, where jobs are scarce, anti-immigrant sentiments run high and Nazi-era attitudes toward minorities never fully disappeared.

When I was there in 1993, some of the eastern Germans (newly reconnected with the west) claimed to be more anti-Nazi than the western Germans because of the Soviet presence for so long. The ones I was talking to (part of a lefty commune group) were probably self-deluded, rather than trying to propagandize me.

484 Kronocide  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:10:03am
CampusReform.org is the @leadershipinst’s comprehensive grassroots mobilization tool for liberty-loving student activists.
485 Gus  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:10:14am

Campus Reform dot org... Far-right... true story.

486 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:10:23am

re: #477 NJDhockeyfan

Just forget the history of hate at that campus, that's not important. It's the anti-leftist academia propagandists that are the real problem!

Um. They're actually both problems, but pretending that Oliver Darcy's article has any validity when it doesn't even address what's in the report or why there's criticism of said report addresses neither.

487 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:10:39am

re: #433 Killgore Trout

Liveleak seems to be the center of a propaganda war. Lots of videos titled thing like "Syrian Rebels shoot children, run over woman's head with truck" etc. I don't know how genuine the videos are, I can't bring myself to watch them.

It's difficult. There are enormous propaganda forces being brought to bear by both sides, and supporters of both sides, and it's hard to make out what the hell is going on through the fog of war.

I tend to feel you're pretty safe assuming that really bad shit is happening.

488 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:11:43am

re: #479 Expand Your Ground

What else can Romney run on? His tenure as governor? Bain Capitalß The Ryan budget? Fear and loathing and the lousy economy, which the GOP has done nothing to address.

I'm waiting for the ad saying that a 13,000+ DJIA is not good enough. If a proper businessman had been in charge the last four years it would have been over 20,000!
(Hey, if you're gonna lie, lie big.)
///

489 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:12:01am

re: #437 Lidane

A deadbeat dad says what?

GOP Rep. Joe Walsh: Muslims Are ‘Trying To Kill Americans Every Week’

Which leads us to the question: why are the Elk Grove Muslims so freaking incompetent? They're trying to kill people every week? How many have they succeeded with? How hard are the Elk Grove Muslims trying, people?

490 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:12:35am

re: #489 SanFranciscoZionist

Which leads us to the question: why are the Elk Grove Muslims so freaking incompetent? They're trying to kill people every week? How many have they succeeded with? How hard are the Elk Grove Muslims trying, people?

The Elk Grove Muslims are the Pinky & The Brain of jihadists.

491 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:13:20am

re: #457 NJDhockeyfan

Supporters of hate at UC are not happy with a findings report on rabid anti-Semitism on campus and have a petition going around asking the school administrators to ignore the report.

Students urge University of California to dismiss findings of widespread anti-Semitism on campuses

Yeah, that's been heating up.

492 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:14:14am

re: #491 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeah, that's been heating up.

You're in the area. Can you tell us anything about this report versus the contestation of the report?

493 Gus  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:14:40am

The Leadership Institute (LI)
Background

The Leadership Institute (LI) was founded in 1979 by Morton C. Blackwell who serves as its current president. The Institute specializes in training potential conservative political leaders in campaigns, fundraising, grassroots organization, youth politics, and communications.

According to their website, "The Institute teaches conservatives of all ages how to succeed in politics, government, and the media."

The website also states "LI increases the number and effectiveness of conservative activists and leaders in the public policy process. The Institute doesn’t analyze policy; it teaches conservative Americans how to influence policy through direct participation, activism, and leadership."

According to Right Wing Watch, Morton Blackwell has also served as Executive Director of the secretive Council for National Policy, a foundation composed of leaders of right wing public policy organizations, major donors, and noted conservative leaders.

The Leadership Institute actively supports the entire conservative movement. [1]
Stance on Climate Change

Although the LI does not supply an official statement on climate change, their Campus Reform project offers the following point of view on their blog:

"For the leftist activists, COP 15 and the protest was about changing the system (aka ending capitalism). Climate change is merely an excuse to collapse capitalism and switch to socialists economic systems." [2]

Continues.

494 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:16:10am

re: #467 NJDhockeyfan

I don't see any muslims mentioned in the article but there appears to be a problem on campus with the Jewish community.

There is a companion piece to this one on the climate on campus for Muslim and Arab students. JVP does not appear to feel that one is an infringement on their right to act out at Cal.

495 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:16:22am

Or you could read the report for yourself
University of California Jewish Student Campus Climate
Fact-Finding Team Report & Recommendations (PDF)

Many described being denied access to work with organizations dedicated to issues of social justice specifically because of the stance those non-Jewish student organizations have taken regarding Israel. Students involved with Jewish organizations which support Israel, or which do not denounce Israel, reported their perception that overtures to outside organizations have been rejected. This was particularly disheartening for the Team because of concern regarding any litmus test of this nature, and because of the knowledge of the past history of Jewish involvement and impact on issues confronting all minorities.

496 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:16:32am

re: #468 Gus

I doubt it. This is your typical right-wing anti LEFTIST ACADEMIA propaganda. There may be a problem but they're going to word to make is seem worse than it is and mostly to slander TEH LEFT!!

Figures.

497 Kronocide  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:17:16am

re: #495 Killgore Trout

Or you could read the report for yourself
University of California Jewish Student Campus Climate
Fact-Finding Team Report & Recommendations (PDF)

I'm sure NJD read it already.

498 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:17:24am

re: #474 Gus

Council for National Policy

Got anything on Alice Huffman?

499 Gus  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:18:11am

re: #496 SanFranciscoZionist

Figures.

Well. That always seems to be the case with outfits like Campus Reform. Yes, there's a problem but this just injects the usual far-right nonsense.

500 Gus  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:18:50am

re: #498 SanFranciscoZionist

Got anything on Alice Huffman?

[Link: www.naacp.org...]

501 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:19:01am

re: #477 NJDhockeyfan

Just forget the history of hate at that campus, that's not important. It's the anti-leftist academia propagandists that are the real problem!

There's a real problem with anti-semitism of the most ill-informed kind on the Berkeley campus. It's a selective cause that draws many people who really ought to know better to it, and the explanations for exactly why are, as always when trying to figure out a fascination with Jews, complicated. To me, it kind of reminds me of the Free Tibet movement, in that most of the people in it aren't bad people, just very badly informed. Most of the "end Israeli Apartheid" people at Berkelely have heard a lot of very biased stuff, and, moreover, have seen that a lot of the people speaking up for Israel are very duplicitous, highly socially conservative, or otherwise questionable.

One of the most annoying things about the GOP and the right-wing in general going so far off the rails into xenophobia, racism, religious fervor, etc. is their attempt to use Jews and Israel as a cover; the practical effect of this has been to lose support for Israel. Not to mention the actual swing to the right of Israeli politics; when insane shit like Netanyahu giving a medal to Glenn Beck is going on, it's all too easy to convince 18 year old college students that Israel's government is pretty fucked up.

Whatever the report is, it shouldn't be suppressed. If there are flaws with it, those should be stated. That's free academic discourse. People attempting to shut down conversation at universities, whether they're anti-semites coming to boo Dershowitz and prevent him from being heard or people trying to stop anyone who was ever a communist from teaching, suck.

502 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:20:51am

re: #481 Expand Your Ground

Conflating anti-Israel sentiment with antisemitism again? Please! Israeli politics and Judaism certainly overlap, but they are not identical!!!

Yes, I'm sure the ADL is too dumb (or ideologically motivated) to know the difference.

503 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:21:15am

re: #481 Expand Your Ground

Conflating anti-Israel sentiment with antisemitism again? Please! Israeli politics and Judaism certainly overlap, but they are not identical!!!

Antisemitism at the University of California

...The crown jewel of California’s public higher education system is the University of California (UC). Yet, bigotry against Jewish students has occurred on University of California campuses over many years and on many campuses. Jewish students have been subjected to: acts of physical aggression; intimidation; swastikas; speakers, films, and exhibits that use antisemitic imagery and discourse; speakers that praise and encourage support for terrorist organizations; the organized disruption of events that Jewish student groups had sponsored; and the promotion of student resolutions for divestment from Israel that demonize and delegitimize the Jewish State.

...Discrimination against Jews, of course, is not a policy of the University of California. Old-fashioned antisemitism, in which a quota existed for
Jewish students and the number of Jewish students and Jewish faculty were deliberately minimized, no longer exists in the United States. In fact, Jewish students and faculty, although members of a very small ethnic/religious minority among the American populace, exist in disproportionately higher numbers at UC. The overwhelming majority of UC students, faculty, and staff show no antisemitic attitudes or feelings. Yet, some campuses have become places in which hostility is shown to Jews and the Jewish state.

...This hostility is often manifested in the guise of anti-Zionism and antiIsraelism. Whereas historically antisemitism was manifested under a religious guise, then a racial guise, it is now evidenced in a political/ideological guise. What is often disguised as “legitimate” criticism of the Jewish nation’s policies frequently morphs into the tropes of classical antisemitism, such as blood libels and Jews controlling the United States. As Bernard Lewis points out, the political aspect is marked by the same two features that mark classical antisemitism: Jews and/or the Jewish state are portrayed and accused of cosmic evil; Jews and/or the Jewish state are judged by a standard different from that applied to others.

504 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:21:42am

re: #501 Obdicut

And in case it wasn't clear enough:

There is a problem of antisemitism on the Berkeley campus. It has gotten worse during my lifetime. As a strong defender of the Bay Area, academic freedom, and 'liberal' values, this is an embarrassment to me and something that we shouldn't be, can't be afraid to look square in the face and admit is happening. The reasons why it's happening is not 'the left hates the Jews' or anything as simple as that, and people attempting to make cheap political hay from it with that as their point irritate me too.

505 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:26:00am

re: #504 Obdicut

And in case it wasn't clear enough:

There is a problem of antisemitism on the Berkeley campus. It has gotten worse during my lifetime. As a strong defender of the Bay Area, academic freedom, and 'liberal' values, this is an embarrassment to me and something that we shouldn't be, can't be afraid to look square in the face and admit is happening. The reasons why it's happening is not 'the left hates the Jews' or anything as simple as that, and people attempting to make cheap political hay from it with that as their point irritate me too.

1000 updings! The report speaks for itself. Shame on anyone throwing politics into it. It's not a political problem, it's a hate problem.

506 Lidane  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:27:03am

Since there's been a bit of an obsession with fact-checkers lately:

Des Moines Register: Romney’s Welfare Attack False

507 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:27:35am

re: #492 The Ghost of a Flea

You're in the area. Can you tell us anything about this report versus the contestation of the report?

The ADL has a long history of tracking ant-Semitism on campus, and reporting on it. There's a new report, which I believe updates one issues in 1997.

They apparently make some recommendations about campus response. I do not know if these recommendations are distinctly different from the ones in the previous report, which can be found here, since I have not read the new one.

[Link: www.adl.org...]

JVP has decided that if Cal follows these guidelines, it will be an undue limitation of their ability to carry out pro-Palestinian activism on campus, and they want Yudof to table the document.

That's about the size of it.

508 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:27:49am

re: #493 Gus

The Leadership Institute (LI)
Background

Continues.

Do one on the ADL now!

509 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:29:13am

re: #495 Killgore Trout

Or you could read the report for yourself
University of California Jewish Student Campus Climate
Fact-Finding Team Report & Recommendations (PDF)

Ah thanks. That one has the recommendations on it. Couldn't find the link.

510 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:30:21am

re: #499 Gus

Well. That always seems to be the case with outfits like Campus Reform. Yes, there's a problem but this just injects the usual far-right nonsense.

Yes. There's a problem. How is Alice Huffman aggravating this problem again?

511 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:30:39am

re: #500 Gus

[Link: www.naacp.org...]

CRAZY RIGHT WINGER!!!!!!

512 AK-47%  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:31:24am

re: #483 wrenchwench

From your link:

When I was there in 1993, some of the eastern Germans (newly reconnected with the west) claimed to be more anti-Nazi than the western Germans because of the Soviet presence for so long. The ones I was talking to (part of a lefty commune group) were probably self-deluded, rather than trying to propagandize me.

This is a tricky thing. Remember that before the Wall fell, there was full employment, people had the basics, and in every small town there was a community center run by the party or the local Free Democratic Youth (the East German Pioneers) that offered something to do on a weekend, a film or a disco or something.

Then the wall fell, mother and father lost their jobs, he and took to drinking, mother has to get up at 5am to catch a bus to work at the nearest supermarket 20 miles away, and the youth center closed.

And who came into fill the social vacuum? The Neo-Nazis: they organized family fests and youth activities and won a lot of people over to their cause.

And while West Germany has been interacting and living mostly peacefully with various immigrant groups since the 60's, the only immigrants the East Germans knew were the Vietnamese guest workers and the African exchange students, with whom there was almost no social interaction.

513 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:34:37am

re: #509 SanFranciscoZionist

Ah thanks. That one has the recommendations on it. Couldn't find the link.

I have very mixed feeling about their recommendations. I"m not a fan of "hate speech" bans but the problem is out of control. I think there are better solutions.

514 AK-47%  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:35:49am

re: #503 NJDhockeyfan

Antisemitism at the University of California

Granted, there is anti-Semitism, and from your description, no small amount. I am not surprised given the climate of hatred and mistrust that is settling over America.

But do not confuse it with criticism of Israeli policy. Problem is, the second that religion and politics begin to overlap, you get these ridiculous conflations of religion and religion-based political movements.

515 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:36:31am

My negative opinion of JVP is, I will frankly admit, colored by the fact that I have seen them stand, smiling happily, next to people screaming "From the river to the sea", and chanting "Khaybar, khaybar, ya yahud". With a pretty sign with a dove on it.

516 Only The Lurker Knows  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:39:07am

Schieffer, Crowley, Lehrer to moderate presidential debates

Good? Bad? Indifferent?

517 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:40:31am

re: #513 Killgore Trout

I have very mixed feeling about their recommendations. I"m not a fan of "hate speech" bans but the problem is out of control. I think there are better solutions.

It's a complicated mess for Cal, which is, I believe, why Yudof commissioned this report, and its companion piece. This isn't campus policy, this is simply a set of recommendations, which doesn't venture to go beyond posing some questions about what Cal considers acceptable.

The fact that JVP doesn't even want it looked at is very telling of their general attitude.

Question for all: if there was a wingnut student group demanding that the report on the climate for Muslim students be put aside because even considering it would damage their ability to campaign against jihad on campus, how much sympathy would they deserve?

518 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:41:30am

re: #507 SanFranciscoZionist

The ADL has a long history of tracking ant-Semitism on campus, and reporting on it. There's a new report, which I believe updates one issues in 1997.

They apparently make some recommendations about campus response. I do not know if these recommendations are distinctly different from the ones in the previous report, which can be found here, since I have not read the new one.

[Link: www.adl.org...]

JVP has decided that if Cal follows these guidelines, it will be an undue limitation of their ability to carry out pro-Palestinian activism on campus, and they want Yudof to table the document.

That's about the size of it.

Thanks.

519 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:42:08am

re: #516 Bubblehead II

Schieffer, Crowley, Lehrer to moderate presidential debates

Good? Bad? Indifferent?

Meh. I'd like to see Charlie Rose on that list but this election season has become such a joke I don;t expect the debates to be a serious event anyways.

520 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:42:29am

re: #505 NJDhockeyfan

Well, as long as not being afraid of admitting this is happening, we really do need to examine why it is happening, why it has been happening. A large part of it is because of the simple background of antisemitism in our culture at large; Jews have been the target of European and American hate and fear for so long, there are well-established treads for this kind of shit to fall into.

Another part of it is because Israel is a militarily active nation, and is fighting against guerrilla fighters and terrorists. The casualties are immensely lopsided: far, far, far more Palestinians have died in this conflict than have Israelis. That ratio carries no moral meaning whatsoever, but for a naive person it does, the fact that Israel kills a 'disproportionate' amount of Palestinians seems outrageous to them. Furthermore, the events of the previous decades, where Israel was attacked with the clear view to its annihilation, are receding into the past. To the large portion of anti-war left, the fact that Israel is a highly militarized and active state is an automatic negative.

But we really have to admit the effect that politics has had on this, as well-- that the tight embrace of Israel attempted by the GOP has worked way too well in many cases, and the GOP has tarnished Israel by association; this has been made much worse by a far-right government in Israel, by repeated violation of settlement agreements that every US administration has protested against, etc.

So there's a lot to look at. It's comfortable for no one. No one comes out of this looking good.

521 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:43:50am

re: #514 Expand Your Ground

Granted, there is anti-Semitism, and from your description, no small amount. I am not surprised given the climate of hatred and mistrust that is settling over America.

But do not confuse it with criticism of Israeli policy. Problem is, the second that religion and politics begin to overlap, you get these ridiculous conflations of religion and religion-based political movements.

I've got friends who have feared for their lives when people 'criticized Israeli policy' around them.

There are people who manage to do it in a sane and reasonable way, but the anti-Israel activists on campus are generally not the ones. Some of these folks are very, very scary people.

522 AK-47%  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:46:46am

re: #521 SanFranciscoZionist

I've got friends who have feared for their lives when people 'criticized Israeli policy' around them.

There are people who manage to do it in a sane and reasonable way, but the anti-Israel activists on campus are generally not the ones. Some of these folks are very, very scary people.

Religion and politics taken together do not generally lend them selves to a sane or reasonable approach these days...

523 HappyWarrior  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:47:24am

re: #493 Gus

The Leadership Institute (LI)
Background

Continues.

Morton Blackwell? Just saw his name mentioned last night as being at a ball that is going to have David Barton and other high end conservative Christians. He's also the guy who started the Kerry band-aids that they passed out at the 2004 RNC. Even if one dislikes Kerry, that one was disgusting.

524 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:48:35am

re: #433 Killgore Trout

Liveleak seems to be the center of a propaganda war. Lots of videos titled thing like "Syrian Rebels shoot children, run over woman's head with truck" etc. I don't know how genuine the videos are, I can't bring myself to watch them.

LiveLeak used to be Ogrish.com, which was more or less focused solely on videos and images of (real) gore and horribleness (Al Qaeda videos, murder scenes, industrial accidents, etc). It attracted the sort of audience you might expect it to attract, and there's no reason to expect many of those people left when the site was redesigned. LiveLeak get their videos from their audience, for the most part. Nearly all the videos are genuine, but they may or may not be correctly described or attributed.

525 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:48:47am

re: #517 SanFranciscoZionist

Question for all: if there was a wingnut student group demanding that the report on the climate for Muslim students be put aside because even considering it would damage their ability to campaign against jihad on campus, how much sympathy would they deserve?

Exactly. It would be hard to imagine an environment on campus that cultured an entrenched Pamela Geller-type movement or right wing neo-Nazi rallies with support from faculty. The problem is that these over-the-top anti-Israel groups have a culture of support on campus, they've been mainstreamed. It would be hard to imagine a similar right wing ideology being tolerated at all.

526 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:50:10am

re: #524 What Would Spalding Gray Do?

Wow. I didn't know Live Leak was Ogrish. Holy crap.

527 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:51:49am

By the way, my grandpa was one of those who wasn't allowed to teach at Berkeley because of their quota system for Jews, back after WWII. It seems so quaint now, the idea of telling someone he can't be a teacher because he's a Jew and they already have too many of those. So we've made a lot of progress.

528 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:53:14am

re: #512 Expand Your Ground

Cold War repercussions abound all over the world, and particularly in Germany. It is complicated, and I hope we can learn from it, but I'm not sure what the lesson is here. Berlin and east Germany were global political footballs for far too long.

529 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:56:51am
530 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:58:18am

re: #520 Obdicut

But we really have to admit the effect that politics has had on this, as well-- that the tight embrace of Israel attempted by the GOP has worked way too well in many cases, and the GOP has tarnished Israel by association; this has been made much worse by a far-right government in Israel, by repeated violation of settlement agreements that every US administration has protested against, etc.

From my perspective, yes and no.

You read the account Letty Cottin Pogrebin wrote of the UN's Women's Conference in Copenhagen in 1980, and you can see the outlines of what happened in 2001 in Durban. The current climate on campus is about as grassroots as the Tea Party. It didn't just happen, it was carefully nurtured, created, and is nourished today by full-time activists who promote a carefully coordinated agenda worldwide. It's continued through Labor governments and Likud governments, good relationships with America and cooler ones.

And the GOP business--well, frankly, it's hard for me to tell whether the chicken and the egg came out of that one first. Sure the GOP has a swell time promoting themselves as Israel's bestest friend (on skimpy evidence), but that's also a godsend for anti-Israel activists who know that young liberal students will believe a lot of anyone they can smear with being friends with Republicans.

531 AK-47%  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 9:58:52am

re: #528 wrenchwench

Cold War repercussions abound all over the world, and particularly in Germany. It is complicated, and I hope we can learn from it, but I'm not sure what the lesson is here. Berlin and east Germany were global political footballs for far too long.

I find that West Germans are no more or less racist than most other countries I have been to.

But East Germany is a unique case: foreigners were always "outsiders", those who came to work were "stealing" their consumer goods when they went home laden with TV's and washing machines, now the foreigners are "stealing" their jobs...

And the Neo-Nazis slipped into the political and ideological vacuum left by the fall of the Communist Party, and has gained a lot of traction with people who still feel disaffected and looked down on by the West.

532 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:01:40am

I find it more than a bit ironic that in the report on campus anti-Semitism from a university none of the recommendations involve education. The problem is that it's become institutionalized and has support from (at least some) faculty. Of course banning hate speech is the quick and easy solution to sweep the problem under the rug but how about the university system start weeding out the extremist supporters in faculty and administration and start bringing in more reasonable educators to persuade these kids that radicalism isn't the answer?

533 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:02:31am

re: #531 Expand Your Ground

I find that West Germans are no more or less racist than most other countries I have been to.

But East Germany is a unique case: foreigners were always "outsiders", those who came to work were "stealing" their consumer goods when they went home laden with TV's and washing machines, now the foreigners are "stealing" their jobs...

And the Neo-Nazis slipped into the political and ideological vacuum left by the fall of the Communist Party, and has gained a lot of traction with people who still feel disaffected and looked down on by the West.

All that Stasi-informer outing was dramatic as well. Quite a case history of what can happen to a society when it's divided.

534 HappyWarrior  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:02:35am

Anyhow, speaking as a recent college grad. I think what you see among many college students who are drawn to these Pro Palestinian groups is this misconceived notion that the Palestinians are the noble underdog fighting an imperialistic oppressor. I think that comes from naivete more than outright Anti-Semitism in most cases and thus in my opinion a lack of understanding that these conflicts are more complicated than meet the eye. If you asked someone what the Troubles were about in Northern Ireland, they would tell you that it was Catholicism Vs Protestantism.

535 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:04:18am

re: #532 Killgore Trout

I find it more than a bit ironic that in the report on campus anti-Semitism from a university none of the recommendations involve education. The problem is that it's become institutionalized and has support from (at least some) faculty. Of course banning hate speech is the quick and easy solution to sweep the problem under the rug but how about the university system start weeding out the extremist supporters in faculty and administration and start bringing in more reasonable educators to persuade these kids that radicalism isn't the answer?

You feel that getting rid of academics with bad politics is better than banning hate speech? Why, exactly?

Also, the kids are not, primarily, getting their 'education' in this matter from Cal professors, although there are some real doozies on the faculty here and there.

536 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:04:43am

re: #530 SanFranciscoZionist

I didn't mean to make it sound like this was a purely organic thing, but why it can have such broad appeal. You're completely correct that there are plenty of actual activist really-and-truly antisemitic assholes promoting this, and that they're not exactly subtle about it lately. What is really dangerous is what you already noted-- that the 'moderate' groups are incredibly comfortable standing shoulder to shoulder with the outright destroy-Israel zealots.

The zealots are the engine. What I wrote minimized that and that wasn't my intention; I was more talking about the fuel than the engine. But without the zealots, the problem wouldn't exist.

The problem is how to confront them, and I have no clue how to successfully counteract bigots on campus while preserving campus freedom.

537 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:07:39am

re: #532 Killgore Trout

Of course banning hate speech is the quick and easy solution to sweep the problem under the rug but how about the university system start weeding out the extremist supporters in faculty and administration and start bringing in more reasonable educators to persuade these kids that radicalism isn't the answer?

That is the absolute antithesis of academic freedom. Firing professors because of their point of view is exactly what my personal hero and friend Charles Muscatine stood against when he refused to sign the loyalty oath.

Moreover, as SFZ pointed out, the engine for this shit isn't the faculty, it's the professional agitators. There's some small overlap, but you could fire every professor you identified as the least bit antisemetic and you'd barely have made a dent in the problem-- and you'd have completely fucked academic freedom in America, to boot.

538 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:09:06am

re: #535 SanFranciscoZionist

You feel that getting rid of academics with bad politics is better than banning hate speech? Why, exactly?

Also, the kids are not, primarily, getting their 'education' in this matter from Cal professors, although there are some real doozies on the faculty here and there.

Because although educating them takes longer it changes their minds. Hate speech rules just change public behavior but leave the core problem in place. I think it is possible to start shuffling faculty around and create an environment where hate speech is tolerated but socially frowned up.

539 Kragar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:09:33am

Paul Ryan: Roe v. Wade is 'Virtually Identical' to Dred Scott

540 HappyWarrior  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:10:17am

re: #539 Kragar

Paul Ryan: Roe v. Wade is 'Virtually Identical' to Dred Scott

He's coming across more and more as a crazy so-con posing as Mr. Deficit Hawk daily.

541 Kragar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:12:03am

Judson Phillips Demands Commentators like Limbaugh, Hannity and Beck Moderate the Presidential Debates

On the hook for a $748,000 hotel bill, Tea Party Nation head Judson Phillips is still trying to make the case that he is a true fiscal conservative. So conservative that he has rejected all the presidential debate moderators outright and instead wants the debates moderated by someone from birther outlets like WND and Breitbart or commentators Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh!

542 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:13:18am

Freepers are up in arms (literally it would seem) over reports that the Department of Homeland Security has purchased something like 1.2 billion rounds of ammunition over the past year. They seem to think this is entirely unwarranted and unheard of, and could only be related to Obama's plan to cancel the election or invalidate the results after the Romney landslide.
I haven't even checked to see if the figure is accurate but it would not be unreasonable considering that DHS includes the Border Patrol, ICE, the Coast Guard (49,000 personnel and lots of automatic weapons), the Federal Protective Service (15,000+ armed personnel), TSA, and the National Law Enforcement Training Center. The orders apparently cover a five year period.

This is a top story at Alex Jones and Iran's Press TV.

543 HappyWarrior  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:13:29am

re: #541 Kragar

Judson Phillips Demands Commentators like Limbaugh, Hannity and Beck Moderate the Presidential Debates

I don't think he understands what a moderator is supposed to do.

544 Decatur Deb  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:15:33am

re: #542 Shiplord Kirel

Freepers are up in arms (literally it would seem) over reports that the Department of Homeland Security has purchased something like 1.2 billion rounds of ammunition over the past year. They seem to think this is entirely unwarranted and unheard of, and could only be related to Obama's plan to cancel the election or invalidate the results after the Romney landslide.
I haven't even checked to see if the figure is accurate but it would not be unreasonable considering that DHS includes the Border Patrol, ICE, the Coast Guard (49,000 personnel and lots of automatic weapons), the Federal Protective Service (15,000+ armed personnel), TSA, and the National Law Enforcement Training Center. The orders apparently cover a five year period.

This is a top story at Alex Jones and Iran's Press TV.

Thought mass purchases of ammo was just good citizenship, in case you have to stand your ground or get a good seat at the theatre.

545 AK-47%  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:15:55am

re: #533 wrenchwench

All that Stasi-informer outing was dramatic as well. Quite a case history of what can happen to a society when it's divided.

That is also not a clearly defined line. Basically, everyone who occuped a position of authority; teacher, professor, manager, etc., was expected to provide information on the people they worked with. It was just an unwritten part of the job description.

546 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:16:01am
547 Lidane  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:17:59am

re: #544 Decatur Deb

Thought mass purchases of ammo was just good citizenship, in case you have to stand your ground or get a good seat at the theatre.

Pfft. That's only for Real Americans. If the Obama administration does it, it's a sign that he's coming to kill good, decent, straight Christian Americans.

548 Kragar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:18:10am

GOP Rep. Joe Walsh: Muslims Are ‘Trying To Kill Americans Every Week’

“One thing I’m sure of is that there are people in this country – there is a radical strain of Islam in this country -– it’s not just over there –- trying to kill Americans every week. It is a real threat, and it is a threat that is much more at home now than it was after 9/11,” Walsh said.

Walsh went on to claim that radical Islam had found its way into the Chicago suburbs, including some that he represents.

“It’s here. It’s in Elk Grove. It’s in Addison. It’s in Elgin. It’s here,” he said.

In the same speech, Walsh said he is “looking for some godly men and women in the Senate, in the Congress, who will stand in the face of the danger of Islam in America without political correctness,” according to Salon.

549 blueraven  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:18:41am

re: #538 Killgore Trout

Because although educating them takes longer it changes their minds. Hate speech rules just change public behavior but leave the core problem in place. I think it is possible to start shuffling faculty around and create an environment where hate speech is tolerated but socially frowned up.

wow

This is hard to reconcile with your positions on boycotts and other activist activity.

550 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:20:46am

re: #534 HappyWarrior

Anyhow, speaking as a recent college grad. I think what you see among many college students who are drawn to these Pro Palestinian groups is this misconceived notion that the Palestinians are the noble underdog fighting an imperialistic oppressor. I think that comes from naivete more than outright Anti-Semitism in most cases and thus in my opinion a lack of understanding that these conflicts are more complicated than meet the guy. If you asked someone what the Troubles were about in Northern Ireland, they would tell you that it was Catholicism Vs Protestantism.

Lack of knowledge about the history and actual circumstances of the conflict is part of it. (Bad history being promoted by bad actors is another.)

When my local Zionist activists, God love 'em, do get to talk to a campus kid who's not too gorged on ideology and bad history to converse as opposed to scream, the kids are often startled. They expect to be told that Palestinians aren't human, that Israel owns the whole Middle East, that anything Israel does is OK because GOD. That's who they were told we are. And they end up talking to people who are sane, and humane, and also want to figure some way out of the quicksand. It's fucking Berkeley. Most of us are middle-aged liberals with an interest in education and a multi-cultural society. We don't eat babies, and we're basically boring as hell.

But it's hard. There's an Israeli program where they send young people to talk on college campuses. This year we got a young Jewish guy and a young Druze gal, both lawyers, good English, very adorable. They were shaken by how nuts things got at a couple of sites. At one Cal campus, a student leaped up, and started accusing the guy of raping Palestinian women. That startled them, but they were OK. What upset the woman was that a guy got up, loudly asked her a question about racism in Israel, and then while she answered him sincerely, stood there grinning and texting with his phone. Not listening, hearing what she had to say was beside the point.

It's tough. It's just tough to get any kind of real dialogue going. Because the main pull of these campus activists isn't to solve problems, or even to criticize Israeli policy, it's to condemn Israel. For everything.

And it's frustrating, because when anti-Semitism becomes an issue, which it does, repeatedly, it gets masked and excused as 'criticizing Israel'.

551 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:22:08am

re: #538 Killgore Trout

Because although educating them takes longer it changes their minds. Hate speech rules just change public behavior but leave the core problem in place. I think it is possible to start shuffling faculty around and create an environment where hate speech is tolerated but socially frowned up.

From my perspective, that just has 'slippery slope' stamped all over it, and I can't imagine what criteria you would use.

552 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:22:19am

re: #549 blueraven

wow

This is hard to reconcile with your positions on boycotts and other activist activity.

No it's not. The university is free to assemble whatever faculty they want to provide the educational environment they desire. Fewer radicals would be a good idea. They should be doing that anyways.

553 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:22:40am

re: #539 Kragar

Paul Ryan: Roe v. Wade is 'Virtually Identical' to Dred Scott

Oh, that's old. But of course, he had to say it.

554 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:23:51am

re: #547 Lidane

Pfft. That's only for Real Americans. If the Obama administration does it, it's a sign that he's coming to kill good, decent, straight Christian Americans.

What's really troubling about this is the extent to which the right has turned completely against federal law enforcement and even the military, to the extent of openly boasting that "free citizens" can defeat the feds when TSHTF.
Freeper:

Keep in mind, the Joint Chiefs of Staff have already been proving they are progressives. And look at Petraeus pushing for gay rights in the military. These are all Obama selections. So just what do you think is the ideology and partisan mindset of the DHS staff?? They have been trying to claim conservatives are “terrorists” from the get-go of this administration.

Alex Jones, Russia Today, and Iran Press TV are the right's new sources. They are taking advantage of the average right-nut's gross ignorance of, for example, the size and nature of the Coast Guard and some other federal agencies.

556 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:24:44am

re: #546 Daniel Ballard

Varek watch your back!

(Tech question)-Charles, I just could not embed that tweet right. I meant to put the line to Varek in that post.

557 HappyWarrior  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:25:18am

re: #550 SanFranciscoZionist

Lack of knowledge about the history and actual circumstances of the conflict is part of it. (Bad history being promoted by bad actors is another.)

When my local Zionist activists, God love 'em, do get to talk to a campus kid who's not too gorged on ideology and bad history to converse as opposed to scream, the kids are often startled. They expect to be told that Palestinians aren't human, that Israel owns the whole Middle East, that anything Israel does is OK because GOD. That's who they were told we are. And they end up talking to people who are sane, and humane, and also want to figure some way out of the quicksand. It's fucking Berkeley. Most of us are middle-aged liberals with an interest in education and a multi-cultural society. We don't eat babies, and we're basically boring as hell.

But it's hard. There's an Israeli program where they send young people to talk on college campuses. This year we got a young Jewish guy and a young Druze gal, both lawyers, good English, very adorable. They were shaken by how nuts things got at a couple of sites. At one Cal campus, a student leaped up, and started accusing the guy of raping Palestinian women. That startled them, but they were OK. What upset the woman was that a guy got up, loudly asked her a question about racism in Israel, and then while she answered him sincerely, stood there grinning and texting with his phone. Not listening, hearing what she had to say was beside the point.

It's tough. It's just tough to get any kind of real dialogue going. Because the main pull of these campus activists isn't to solve problems, or even to criticize Israeli policy, it's to condemn Israel. For everything.

And it's frustrating, because when anti-Semitism becomes an issue, which it does, repeatedly, it gets masked and excused as 'criticizing Israel'.

I think what you guys are doing is fantastic and I can only imagine how tough it is from the anecdotes you just gave. And I agree, to many of these activists the problem isn't with Israeli policy but more with Israel itself but they hide behind the former.

558 Varek Raith  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:26:02am

re: #556 Daniel Ballard

Varek watch your back!

(Tech question)-Charles, I just could not embed that tweet right. I meant to put the line to Varek in that post.

It's started....
EMPS for everyone!

559 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:26:11am

re: #551 SanFranciscoZionist

From my perspective, that just has 'slippery slope' stamped all over it, and I can't imagine what criteria you would use.

I don't think it's slippery slope at all. Already the university wouldn't hire professors supportive of White Power groups or neo Nazi ideologies. The problem is they've given similar leftist groups a pass and it's created a toxic campus environment.

560 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:26:46am

re: #558 Varek Raith

It's started....
EMPS for everyone!

W00T!

561 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:30:29am

re: #559 Killgore Trout

I don't think it's slippery slope at all. Already the university wouldn't hire professors supportive of White Power groups or neo Nazi ideologies. The problem is they've given similar leftist groups a pass and it's created a toxic campus environment.

I'm sure there are more than a few white supremacists lurking around the Cal faculty. They play their cards as close as they need to in order to keep their jobs, and their left-wing counterparts will do likewise.

562 Varek Raith  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:30:38am

Sneezing fits are fun!
I hate summer.

563 HappyWarrior  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:31:26am

Kevin MacDonald is still employed too and William Pierce who wrote the book that inspired McVeigh taught too.

564 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:32:00am

re: #562 Varek Raith

Sneezing fits are fun!
I hate summer.

Summer ain't to fond of you either, mister.
/

565 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:32:34am

NBC halts Olympics for promotional monkeyshines

NEW YORK (AP) — Viewers were incensed Sunday night when NBC cut away from the Olympics' conclusion to air a sitcom featuring a monkey.

During 16 days from London, the sprawl of Olympics coverage was seemingly indomitable, running roughshod through the NBC schedule. Yet Sunday's package of highlights from the closing ceremony deferred meekly to the preview of a new NBC comedy, "Animal Practice," which then was followed by a half-hour of local news.

When taped Olympics coverage came to a grinding halt at 11 p.m. Eastern time, viewers were advised that the festivities would resume in one hour.
Accordingly, at midnight Ryan Seacrest greeted viewers who had chosen to stick it out.

"Welcome to the London closing party," he chirped. "Now it's time for the big finale."

That would be a medley pounded out by The Who. Songs included such favorites as "Baba O'Riley" and "My Generation," but not, as put-upon viewers might have noted, "Won't Get Fooled Again": After all the build-up, The Who were on hand for just eight minutes.

Olympics host Bob Costas then delivered a rhapsodic postscript before declaring a wrap for NBC's Olympics coverage at 12:35 a.m. For this, viewers had waited an extra hour on a work night.

And by then, many of them might have been wondering why the ceremony package couldn't have aired intact, ending conveniently at 11:08 p.m. and only slightly delaying NBC's monkey business.

Agitated viewers with a long memory were likening Sunday's Who-Airs-When fiasco to NBC's "Heidi" moment nearly four decades earlier.

Monkeyshines?

566 Varek Raith  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:32:35am

re: #564 Cannadian Club Akbar

Summer ain't to fond of you either, mister.
/

No surprise, seeing as I'm trying to kill it with lazors.

567 HappyWarrior  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:33:55am

Anyhow, I think a professor of any ideology is fine as long as they don't let their ideology get in the way of teaching or they don't let their bias effect their cirriculum. I've never heard of that personally happening to anyone I knew with a leftist professor and I'm not saying it's never happened. I did hear about it happening with economics professors at my alma mater whose department is heavily funded by the Kochs. Someone brought up that an essay question was specifically "Why is the Obama Stimulus bad?" Not why or why not but why bad only. The thing is people like Horowitz who claim to be "campus watchdogs" aren't watching for that. They're watching only for people on the far left. Many of whom are just doing their job. Remember that one Columbia professor that Beck smeared.

568 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:34:07am

re: #545 Expand Your Ground

That is also not a clearly defined line. Basically, everyone who occuped a position of authority; teacher, professor, manager, etc., was expected to provide information on the people they worked with. It was just an unwritten part of the job description.

Yeah, what I heard was "Why don't you fire all the teachers who were informers?" "Well, because then we'd have no teachers."

569 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:34:21am

re: #565 NJDhockeyfan

NBC halts Olympics for promotional monkeyshines

Monkeyshines?

Not gonna watch it. It's BJ and the Bear reruns for me.:)

570 blueraven  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:34:59am

re: #559 Killgore Trout

This sound like you are suggesting a litmus test for faculty?

571 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:37:37am

MENSA member prays for Romney/Ryan. I'm convinced.
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]
/

572 kirkspencer  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:38:20am

re: #542 Shiplord Kirel

Freepers are up in arms (literally it would seem) over reports that the Department of Homeland Security has purchased something like 1.2 billion rounds of ammunition over the past year. They seem to think this is entirely unwarranted and unheard of, and could only be related to Obama's plan to cancel the election or invalidate the results after the Romney landslide.
I haven't even checked to see if the figure is accurate but it would not be unreasonable considering that DHS includes the Border Patrol, ICE, the Coast Guard (49,000 personnel and lots of automatic weapons), the Federal Protective Service (15,000+ armed personnel), TSA, and the National Law Enforcement Training Center. The orders apparently cover a five year period.

This is a top story at Alex Jones and Iran's Press TV.

As I commented when it was the .40 ammo last time: a) compare it to the previous contracts; and b) it's UP TO, not definite, over five years.

It's a mutual promise. You, the bidder, offer to guarantee a certain number of bullets available on demand over the next five years. We, the government, guarantee to purchase at least x (1,000 bullets per year) and no more than you promised (no more than 70 million bullets per year per bidder) to have available.

Bottom line, it's a molehill. But because it's in certain people's gardens and fits their neuroses it's a mountain to them.

573 lawhawk  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:39:07am

re: #569 Cannadian Club Akbar

#NBCfail for cutting out The Who, Muse (which did the London games' official song), and Ray Davies. Gawker has video of the three acts.

And it had no excuse or reason to cut them. They could have started the recast earlier in the evening or swapped their recap (which was canned footage anyways) to another time slot). They had no time pressure since they owned the rights and knew how long it would go - since they were rebroadcasting it.

[Link: gawker.com...]

574 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:40:33am

re: #573 lawhawk

Musical equivalent of the Heidi game?

575 Kragar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:41:00am

Paul Ryan Featured Alongside 'Former Terrorist’

The website for the upcoming Values Voter Summit in DC, hosted by the Family Research Council, features Mitt Romney’s running mate side-by-side with “former terrorist” Kamal Saleem, seen here:

I can’t imagine Ryan would appreciate being given equal billing with a “former terrorist,” but Saleem is a big deal to the Religious Right.

Saleem, whose real name is Khodor Shami, claims that he was Muslim Brotherhood operative who “came to the United States of America…to destroy this country,” saying that he crossed the Canadian border and “brought weapon caches right through cities.” Somewhere along the way he converted, got a job at Pat Robertson’s Christian Broadcasting Network, and became the favorite ex-Muslim of the Religious Right. As a result, he says his life is constantly in danger, and he is being pursued by foreign agents.

If you’re asking yourself why Saleem isn’t in jail as opposed to speaking at a conference with the likes of Paul Ryan, Michele Bachmann, Jerry Boykin, and Tony Perkins, it’s because Saleem is widely considered to be a fraud. But this begs a question.

Does FRC believe Saleem? Do they think he came to America as a Muslim Brotherhood member bent on destroying our nation? They have scheduled him to speak alongside Jerry Boykin in a breakout session on “the strategic nature of Israel, and its role in the Middle East, America, and in the future of Western Civilization.” That suggests they do.

576 lawhawk  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:41:21am

re: #572 kirkspencer

And it would seem to ignore shortages in certain caliber ammo that were due to the Afghan/Iraq war that led to limited availability - especially for law enforcement purposes. So, now that DHS (a law enforcement agency) has put through with a purchase request, they're up in arms when such a deal would provide economies of scale and cost controls that smaller purchases would not otherwise be able to get.

577 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:41:22am

re: #573 lawhawk

Ray Davies

Finally, something from the Olympics that I'm sorry I missed!

P.S. Thanks for the link! Now I didn't miss it.

578 HappyWarrior  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:42:55am

re: #575 Kragar

Paul Ryan Featured Alongside 'Former Terrorist’

These "former terrorists" remind me of how in Imperial Russia, Jewish converts to Orthodoxy were used to drum up the "truth about Judaism." This is pretty much the same game. By the way, if he's a former terrorist why is he not in jail or anything like that? It's awfully conveinent that guys like this all claim to be former terrorists and all of them are in no danger of being incarcerated.

579 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:43:36am

re: #576 lawhawk

And it would seem to ignore shortages in certain caliber ammo that were due to the Afghan/Iraq war that led to limited availability - especially for law enforcement purposes. So, now that DHS (a law enforcement agency) has put through with a purchase request, they're up in arms when such a deal would provide economies of scale and cost controls that smaller purchases would not otherwise be able to get.

I recorded it in 3D last night. The opening ceremonies on the 3D channel had no commentators and showed the whole thing. NBC left out a few parts with that coverage.

580 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:43:45am

OK, I'm getting emotional and lengthy on this thread, and I'm going to drop it. But I want to share this, just to make it clear where I'm coming from.

This is what happened in 2002, on the San Francisco State campus.

I'd already been a student there one summer in the mid-90s. That was the summer, '94, that a mural of Malcolm X was unveiled, and promptly veiled again, that turned out to have stars of David and dollar signs around the border, with the words "African Blood". The artist claimed it wasn't anti-Semitic, it just reflected Malcolm's criticism of Israeli policy.

Then we got this:

[Link: www.indybay.org...]

I missed it. I was asked if I wanted to come along, but I had some other crap going on that day. I found out about it two days later, at a meeting of JIMENA (that's Jews Indigenous To The Middle East And North Africa. Sephardi/Mizrahi history awareness group). Nothing quite as fun as hearing about something like this from a man who fled Egypt as a child, and a woman who was nearly burned alive trying to get out of Libya with her family as a young woman. They were there, to speak. The kids from Hillel were terrified. Joe and Regina were totally calm. Shit happens.

Joe, BTW, is Joseph Abdel Wahed, who once said in a lecture, and I've always remembered this, speaking of Jews in the eyes of the world, "We are all Zionists, whether we like it or not."

These are a few of the things that made me acutely aware of how closely identified anti-Israeli sentiment and anti-Semitism are. I do not, contrary to the somewhat timeworn accusation, assume that anyone who criticizes Israel is an anti-Semite, but I pretty much assume that anyone who just hates Israel is, and I haven't seen anything to prove me wrong.

581 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:45:42am

re: #570 blueraven

This sound like you are suggesting a litmus test for faculty?

No, but their activism, writings and ideology should be considered in hiring and tenure decisions. Normal Finklestein is a great example of this. It would have been irresponsible and reckless for any university to keep him. Academia isn't some sort of blind random and amoral concept. Universities have a right to create the education environment they want their students to have. They have the right and responsibility to hire educators to create that environment.

582 Decatur Deb  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:47:32am

re: #576 lawhawk

And it would seem to ignore shortages in certain caliber ammo that were due to the Afghan/Iraq war that led to limited availability - especially for law enforcement purposes. So, now that DHS (a law enforcement agency) has put through with a purchase request, they're up in arms when such a deal would provide economies of scale and cost controls that smaller purchases would not otherwise be able to get.

There are also scheduling issues. Most high-volume ammo production is done on a very tiny number of automated robot lines called SCAMPs. They make a large volume of one item, then are torn down for maintenance and retooling to another calibre. It causes hiccups in availability if not managed well in advance.

Scribd Document
583 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:55:19am

re: #578 HappyWarrior

These "former terrorists" remind me of how in Imperial Russia, Jewish converts to Orthodoxy were used to drum up the "truth about Judaism." This is pretty much the same game.

I don't know this one. What's wrong with Walid Shoebat? Is he sick?

Why do they always become evangelical Christians? Isn't there an ex-terrorist out there who's, like a secular Muslim, or a serious atheist, or became a Buddhist or something?

//

584 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:57:04am

re: #552 Killgore Trout

No it's not. The university is free to assemble whatever faculty they want to provide the educational environment they desire. Fewer radicals would be a good idea. They should be doing that anyways.

This is a completely unworkable idea which is obvious to anyone spending five seconds to think about it. The minute you cripple academic freedom like that, there's no end in sight. Many of the best ideas every promogulated were radical in their time, were unacceptable in mainstream society. Other ideas, like Marxism, are extremely useful as a critique and should not be suppressed, but engaged with.

What you are proposing is what happened during the Red Scare. It's cowardly, unamerican, and stupid.

585 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:58:00am

re: #580 SanFranciscoZionist

The Indybay link goes to their front page for me, not the specific article. I tried searching for the link at their site and got over 4,000 results.

586 Kragar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:59:03am

re: #583 SanFranciscoZionist

Whalid works the Pam and Gaffney circuit. Kamal works the Evangelical circuit.

587 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:59:25am

re: #584 Obdicut

This is a completely unworkable idea which is obvious to anyone spending five seconds to think about it. The minute you cripple academic freedom like that, there's no end in sight. Many of the best ideas every promogulated were radical in their time, were unacceptable in mainstream society. Other ideas, like Marxism, are extremely useful as a critique and should not be suppressed, but engaged with.

What you are proposing is what happened during the Red Scare. It's cowardly, unamerican, and stupid.

I can see that only if you take it to the extreme. Less of a left leaning environment is not the same as a red scare deal.

588 Gus  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:59:33am

re: #585 wrenchwench

The Indybay link goes to their front page for me, not the specific article. I tried searching for the link at their site and got over 4,000 results.

lol They're still redirecting links from LGF. Remember?

589 HappyWarrior  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 10:59:47am

re: #584 Obdicut

This is a completely unworkable idea which is obvious to anyone spending five seconds to think about it. The minute you cripple academic freedom like that, there's no end in sight. Many of the best ideas every promogulated were radical in their time, were unacceptable in mainstream society. Other ideas, like Marxism, are extremely useful as a critique and should not be suppressed, but engaged with.

What you are proposing is what happened during the Red Scare. It's cowardly, unamerican, and stupid.

Also at that time, several ideas considered radical- racial equality, gender equality, and GLBT equality that are now seen as mainstream. And yeah Marxism is extremely useful to learn about as a means of understanding many topics.

590 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 11:00:50am

re: #544 Decatur Deb

Wonder how many rounds were purchased during the Bush admin? Wonder if it was a ploy to take over or if it was just good common sense bulk buying then but a nefarious scheme now?

591 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 11:01:31am

re: #588 Gus

lol They're still redirecting links from LGF. Remember?

No, I don't (but that's not unusual, lately). Even if I copy the link and paste it, they can still tell it comes from LGF?

592 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 11:02:09am

‘Schools’ set up by al-Qaeda to teach children terrorism: report

Al-Qaeda has been setting up “terrorist schools” to allegedly confine kidnapped young children and brainwash them into future attacks on western countries, the Daily Mail reported on Sunday.

The “school” keeps the young children, all under the age of ten and some as young as seven, chained to beds while they are taught a very extreme version of Islam, the newspaper stated. It has been claimed that they were also taught about suicide bombings and told they would go to paradise if they committed suicide in “martyrdom operations.”

Terror investigator Neil Doyle uncovered pictures of locked-up children after authorities carried out a raid on a school in Mogadishu. The classes were being carried out at an Islamic boarding school and the children were being taught by a member of the terrorist group al-Shabaab, a group inspired by al-Qaeda. The raid was one of several operations authorized by the government and led to 200 people being arrested.
When caught, the teacher claimed that the children were put in chains as punishment for missing classes. The children’s parents were unaware they were there, reported the Daily Mail.

“The images suggest al-Shabaab has turned to slavery in order to produce a generation of child soldiers and suicide bombers.” Doyle, author of Terror Base UK and Terror Tracker told the Sunday Mirror.

“The group has lost a lot of ground to government troops and it almost beggars belief that they have adopted widespread child abuse as a way of trying to engineer a comeback.” He added.

Doyle went on to say: “they are following in the footsteps of other militants who target children, unfortunately, like the Afghan Taliban who regularly poison students at girls' schools and shoot teachers.”

As a father of 2 young girls this is heartbreaking. How sick can you be to do this?

593 Gus  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 11:02:38am

re: #591 wrenchwench

No, I don't (but that's not unusual, lately). Even if I copy the link and paste it, they can still tell it comes from LGF?

Hmmm. Maybe they block all outside linking? Perhaps on a few choice posts or something.

594 Decatur Deb  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 11:02:41am

re: #590 RayFerd

Wonder how many rounds were purchased during the Bush admin? Wonder if it was a ploy to take over or if it was just good common sense bulk buying then but a nefarious scheme now?

The number is out there, probably unclassified. If only there were some profession dedicated to gathering news that would jump through a few hoops to find it.

595 HappyWarrior  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 11:02:42am

re: #583 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't know this one. What's wrong with Walid Shoebat? Is he sick?

Why do they always become evangelical Christians? Isn't there an ex-terrorist out there who's, like a secular Muslim, or a serious atheist, or became a Buddhist or something?

//

I don't know.It's yeah they always become evangelical Christians and seem to be used in an industry that hates on their former religion. The phrase- convert's zeal- applies here I think. The most obnoxious people in religion and or politics I find one encounters are ones that have changed or converted. It's their right of course but I also have a right to feel they have an agenda. As for the Russians, there was this Orthodox religious tract I read about that was widely distributed that basically had all the ingredients of Russian style Anti-Semitism- the blood libel and all that junk.

596 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 11:02:49am

re: #589 HappyWarrior

The price that is paid for that was and is a rather hostile environment to right leaning issues/causes. When I read "fewer radicals" in KT's post I though to myself that's like wanting less fundamentalist influence in a church, more moderate voices more welcome.

Did I misread that?

597 Kragar  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 11:02:58am

re: #583 SanFranciscoZionist

Why do they always become evangelical Christians? Isn't there an ex-terrorist out there who's, like a secular Muslim, or a serious atheist, or became a Buddhist or something?

//

HARALD: "Listen. I've been in this dump for sixteen years and I haven't made a single convert..."
SNORRI: "There was Thorbjorn Vifilsson's wife. You converted HER."
HARALD: "Thorbjorn Vifilsson's wife became a Buddhist, not a Christian."
SNORRI: " Same thing, isn't it?"
HARALD: "No, it is NOT."

598 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 11:03:23am

re: #587 Daniel Ballard

I can see that only if you take it to the extreme. Less of a left leaning environment is not the same as a red scare deal.

Nope. As SFZ said, how do you make that qualification? Who decides what free speech academics are going to be allowed?

Teachers should be hired on their ability to teach their subject and their mastery of it. Politics should not enter into it, except to the extent they are unable to teach their classes. If there's a professor who's saying that all Jews are evil, obviously Jewish students aren't going to learn well in his class.

But short of that, no political statement, position, or philosophy should bar one from teaching. None. Otherwise academic freedom goes straight down the toilet.

Listen to my friend Charles Muscatine on the topic, listen to others.

[Link: www.trackedinamerica.org...]

599 Gus  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 11:04:40am

Aweome. Dailymail and "terror investigator" Neil Doyle.

600 HappyWarrior  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 11:05:43am

re: #596 Daniel Ballard

The price that is paid for that was and is a rather hostile environment to right leaning issues/causes. When I read "fewer radicals" in KT's post I though to myself that's like wanting less fundamentalist influence in a church, more moderate voices more welcome.

Did I misread that?

I dunno. KT brought up ideology. I don't think one's ideology should be considered when hiring someone for a teaching position. Certainly there should be people of all ideologies open to hiring.

601 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 11:05:56am

re: #598 Obdicut

Somehow that works great for the left, not so much for the right. Which flys in the face of academic freedom all by itself. What academic freedom at this point where both sides are not welcome?

602 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 11:06:32am

re: #587 Daniel Ballard

I can see that only if you take it to the extreme. Less of a left leaning environment is not the same as a red scare deal.

It happens all the time. Universities hire professors to create a productive educational environment. It's what they do and of course it's absurd to claim this is some sort of McCarthy like plot. Ward Churchill is another famous example of a professor who went to far (it didn't help that he was also a shitty academic) In the case of UC and their own internal anti-Semitism investigation I think it shows they've been negligent in their hiring decisions. Working to improve their staffing choices and creating a more productive environment for students is far superior than banning 'hate speech".

603 HappyWarrior  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 11:07:30am

Churchill and Finklestein are both plagiarists. That not their radical beliefs is why they should have been fired.

604 HappyWarrior  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 11:10:39am

Also, Finklestein was teaching at DePaul, a private university. I'm not sure how you tell a private institution that they must consider a person's ideology in the hiring process. I have no problem with there being more right leaning professors. Heck my two of my favorite professors were both definitely right leaning.

605 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 11:12:31am

re: #595 HappyWarrior

I don't know.It's yeah they always become evangelical Christians and seem to be used in an industry that hates on their former religion. The phrase- convert's zeal- applies here I think. The most obnoxious people in religion and or politics I find one encounters are ones that have changed or converted. It's their right of course but I also have a right to feel they have an agenda. As for the Russians, there was this Orthodox religious tract I read about that was widely distributed that basically had all the ingredients of Russian style Anti-Semitism- the blood libel and all that junk.

All of the "Horrible Troof About The Talmud!" crap that you see at anti-Semitic and White supremacist sites comes from one tract that was published over 100 years ago by one "Father Praniatis" a Jewish convert to the Russian church.

606 blueraven  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 11:13:24am

re: #596 Daniel Ballard

The price that is paid for that was and is a rather hostile environment to right leaning issues/causes. When I read "fewer radicals" in KT's post I though to myself that's like wanting less fundamentalist influence in a church, more moderate voices more welcome.

Did I misread that?

Seriously...equating church with university?

607 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 11:14:32am

re: #603 HappyWarrior

Churchill and Finklestein are both plagiarists. That not their radical beliefs is why they should have been fired.

A university is a business. They provide a service to their students. If they have a staff of radical and notorious hate mongers parents are not going to want to send their children there. Universities have, and always will, hire and fire professors (except for tenured ones) on their ability to create the desired educational environment to bring in students. How many Jewish parents are going to want to sign their kids up to attend daily antisemitic rants from Norman Filkstein? It's not some sort of black list of intellectuals. It's responsible staffing choice to bring in students.

608 AK-47%  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 11:16:01am

re: #536 Obdicut

What is really dangerous is what you already noted-- that the 'moderate' groups are incredibly comfortable standing shoulder to shoulder with the outright destroy-Israel zealots.

One can say the much same about people who are critical of islam and the Counterjihadists these days.

But really, where politics and religion overlap, reason and sanity goes out the window.

609 blueraven  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 11:16:11am

re: #607 Killgore Trout

A university is a business. They provide a service to their students. If they have a staff of radical and notorious hate mongers parents are not going to want to send their children there. Universities have, and always will, hire and fire professors (except for tenured ones) on their ability to create the desired educational environment to bring in students. How many Jewish parents are going to want to sign their kids up to attend daily antisemitic rants from Norman Filkstein? It's not some sort of black list of intellectuals. It's responsible staffing choice to bring in students.

Then free market principles will apply, no?
Let that be the solution.

610 HappyWarrior  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 11:16:11am

re: #605 Learned Mother of Zion

All of the "Horrible Troof About The Talmud!" crap that you see at anti-Semitic and White supremacist sites comes from one tract that was published over 100 years ago by one "Father Praniatus" a Jewish convert to the Russian church.

The one I wrote a little about had a Jewish student desecrating and mocking a Christian skull. I think it all goes back to what I've observed about hatred in history. The strategy is to make the subject of the hate out to be the hateful ones.

611 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 11:19:53am

re: #609 blueraven

Then free market principles will apply, no?
Let that be the solution.

It already is the solution and common practice. You're acting like this is some new alien radical concept. Universities already hire and fire professors based on factors like performance, academic output and their overall contributions to the culture of the campus. This is nothing new. The universities are acting in their own self interest.

612 blueraven  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 11:20:44am

re: #611 Killgore Trout

It already is the solution and common practice. You're acting like this is some new alien radical concept. Universities already hire and fire professors based on factors like performance, academic output and their overall contributions to the culture of the campus. This is nothing new. The universities are acting in their own self interest.

Then we dont need a litmus test and there is no problem.

613 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 11:21:00am

re: #601 Daniel Ballard

Somehow that works great for the left, not so much for the right.

What are you talking about? Have you never heard of the Chicago School of Economics? There are tons and tons of right-wing professors, especially in economics, across the US.

That there is a general lean towards 'leftists' amongst academics is true, but trying to correct that by forcing the hire of academics for political reasons or excluding great teachers because they have leftists political views or unpopular views is short-sighted, foolish, and will not even work.

614 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 11:21:25am

re: #607 Killgore Trout

A university is not a business. Especially a state school. It's simply an untrue statement.

615 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 11:21:40am

re: #606 blueraven

Seriously...equating church with university?

In a certain "community culture" sense yes.

616 simoom  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 11:23:34am

Former Florida GOP chairman Jim Greer was on MSNBC the other day giving greater detail to his minority voter suppression allegations and now he's also claiming the GOP's voter ID rhetoric is basically a bad faith argued smokescreen:

PoliticsNation: Transcript, Thursday, August 9, 2012

GREER: Well, I think first of all, you have to realize that most reasonable Republicans and Americans as a whole. If they knew what went on behind the political curtain, they`d not only be disgusted, they`d demand that it stop. As chairman of Florida`s GOP and a member of the RNC rules committee, I sat in on many meetings where it was discussed of how to make sure that what happened in 2008 when President Obama brought out the college age voters, the minority voters, never happened again.

And, you know, the Republican Party believes that minority voters in general are not ever going to vote republican. So discussions centered around, how do we make sure that what happened in `08 never happens again. And part of those discussions dealt with changing the election laws in Florida.

And how to ensure that the Republican Party doesn`t have to deal with what it dealt with in `08. And some of those changes dealt with reducing early voting.

...

So, you know, they talked about reducing early voting. Because that wasn`t helping us win the Republican Party win. They talked about making voter registration much more difficult for third party organizations. Organizations like the legal women voters who have been doing this for many, many years. There were a lot of discussions of what could the Republican Party do led by the political campaign strategists to ensure that Republicans win in 2012.

And it`s very sad what`s going on in the Republican Party. It`s very sad that the Republican Party doesn`t want to win votes by talking about what it stands for. It wants to ensure that some people can`t get to the polls, can`t register to vote. You know, the political strategists of the GOP can`t control what voters do in the voting booth, but they can certainly try and control them ever getting to the voting booth. And that`s what`s happened in Florida.

...

And three and a half years as chairman of Florida, I never had one meeting where voter fraud was discussed as a real issue effecting elections.

...

Never one time did we have any discussions where voter fraud was a real issue. It`s simply been created as a marketing tool here in Florida for the right wing that is running state government now to convince voters that what they`re doing is right. It`s a marketing tool. That`s clearly what it is. There`s no validity to it. We never had issues with it. The main purpose behind it is to make sure that what happened in `08 never happens again. And if that includes keeping voters from voting, keeping voters from registering. That`s what the GOP-led government here in Florida is going to do.

...

There`s no doubt that what the republican-led legislature in Florida and Governor Scott are trying to do is make sure that the Republican Party has an advantage in this upcoming election. By reducing early voting, putting road blocks up for potential voters. Latinos, African-Americans to register on them, to exercise their right to vote. There is no doubt, I was in the room. It`s part of the strategy.

You know, the one thing Al, the people don`t realize is winning elections now has become a multi-million dollar business. There are political consultants that get hundreds of thousands of dollars in bonuses if they win elections. And if they`ve got to change a few voter laws and make it more difficult for minority voters to get to the polls, well, then they`re going to do it.

Because the Republican Party has given up on minority voters.

Video:

Youtube Video
617 simoom  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 11:25:25am

re: #616 simoom

I ran out of space but it's also worth noting that Jim Greer currently has criminal fraud charges filed against him for allegedly having a secret fundraising contract that the Republican Party of Florida didn't know about.

618 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 11:30:08am

re: #601 Daniel Ballard

Somehow that works great for the left, not so much for the right. Which flys in the face of academic freedom all by itself. What academic freedom at this point where both sides are not welcome?

Because it's not simply about "sides." Academic freedom in action generally means that if you can teach the basic and the critical thinking skills, you get leeway to instruct in theory (that amounts to teaching a position or agenda).

The right-wingers who complain about "liberalism" in academia tend to want to cut past the core competency and teach agenda with no filitration.

There's lots of laissez faire, Hayekian economists out there employed at colleges because they can teach the core competency of their fields. There's also a lot of political conservatives and conservative Christians that can teach in their field and be excellent. Even those I wouldn't consider so great, like VDH, have a job. There's even genuine nuts...scientific racists, AGW doubters...that continue to hold staff positions because it can't be demonstrated that their private activities influence their classroom conduct.

The right-wingers that get caught out by academia are the ones who want to teach nothing but their message, and, too boot, want to shut down discussion outside of their chosen frame. That's who's complaining so loud about "liberal academics"--not all conservatives with a stake in academics, but the ones who want academia to only serve their ends. They're perfectly happy to rant about crazy liberal professors or courses with wacky subject matter, but that discernment and indignation is one-sided and opportunistic. Their position is not just inclusion of their own perspective, but exclusion of other perspectives. Look at all the complaining about GLBT studies, or women's studies, or African American studies...the "outrage" that these subjects should get any intellectual attention...that goes hand in hand with anger about liberalism in academia.

619 blueraven  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 11:32:16am

re: #616 simoom

Former Florida GOP chairman Jim Greer was on MSNBC the other day giving greater detail to his minority voter suppression allegations and now he's also claiming the GOP's voter ID rhetoric is basically a bad faith argued smokescreen:

PoliticsNation: Transcript, Thursday, August 9, 2012

Video:

[Embedded content]

Page worthy!

620 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 11:38:16am

re: #618 The Ghost of a Flea

And the advocacy of a teacher doesn't infect their students in some mimetic way. If they're intellectually honest, if they're a good teacher, they're inspiring their students to think critically and passionately discover.

The father of modern biblical archaeology was a fervent evangelical christian who believed strongly in the historical accuracy of the bible and the actual divinity of Jesus. His students, inspired by him, went out into the field and revitalized biblical archaeology-- and proved him wrong in almost every particular. He taught them well. That his theories were wrong and that his positions were highly influenced by his religion didn't matter. He was a great teacher.

621 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 12:03:23pm

re: #618 The Ghost of a Flea

The fact that rw extremist want to repeat the mistake we have to the left now (to a lessor but still significant degree) does not change my point any. An environment of academic freedom would be largely blind to all these ideological differences. And that is not what we have.

622 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 12:12:58pm

re: #615 Daniel Ballard

In a certain "community culture" sense yes.

No it isn't. Church is a congregation of people with the same belief system upheld by the other people in the congregation. College is a learning institution that should explore all sides of issues/beliefs/facts/ideas/etc. If you ran a college like a church it would be a madrasah type institution.

623 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 12:15:57pm

re: #585 wrenchwench

The Indybay link goes to their front page for me, not the specific article. I tried searching for the link at their site and got over 4,000 results.

Here's the article/letter. Part One

Editor’s Note: The following is a letter from Laurie Zoloth, Director, Jewish Studies Program at San Francisco State University, dated Thursday, May 9.
Dear Colleagues,

TODAY, ALL DAY, I have been listening to the reactions of students, parents, and community members who were on campus yesterday. I have received e-mail from around the country, and phone calls, worried for both my personal safety on the campus, and for the entire intellectual project of having a Jewish Studies program, and recruiting students to a campus that in the last month has become a venue for hate speech and anti-Semitism. After nearly 7 years as director of Jewish Studies, and after nearly two decades of life here as a student, faculty member and wife of the Hillel rabbi, after years of patient work and difficult civic discourse, I am saddened to see SFSU return to its notoriety as a place that teaches anti-Semitism, hatred for America, and hatred, above all else, for the Jewish State of Israel, a state that I cherish. I cannot fully express what it feels like to have to walk across campus daily, past maps of the Middle East that do not include Israel, past posters of cans of soup with labels on them of drops of blood and dead babies, labeled "canned Palestinian children meat, slaughtered according to Jewish rites under American license," past poster after poster calling out "Zionism=racism, and Jews=Nazis." This is not civic discourse, this is not free speech, and this is the Weimar Republic with brown shirts it cannot control. This is the casual introduction of the medieval blood libel and virulent hatred smeared around our campus in a manner so ordinary that it hardly excites concern-except if you are a Jew, and you understand that hateful words have always led to hateful deeds.

Yesterday, the hatred coalesced in a hate mob. Yesterday's Peace In The Middle East Rally was completely organized by the Hillel students, mostly 18 and 19 years old. They spoke about their lives at SFSU and of their support for Israel, and they sang of peace. They wore new Hillel t-shirts that said "peace" in English, Hebrew and Arabic. A Russian immigrant, in his new English, spoke of loving his new country, a haven from anti-Semitism. A sophomore spoke about being here only one year, and about the support and community she found at the Hillel House. Both spoke of how hard it was to live as a Jew on this campus how isolating, how terrifying. A surfer guy, spoke of his love of Jesus, and his support for Israel, and a young freshman earnestly asked for a moment of silence, and all the Jews stood still, listening as the shouted hate of the counter demonstrators filled the air with abuse.

624 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 12:16:51pm

re: #585 wrenchwench

The Indybay link goes to their front page for me, not the specific article. I tried searching for the link at their site and got over 4,000 results.

Part Two:

As soon as the community supporters left, the 50 students who remained praying in a minyan for the traditional afternoon prayers, or chatting, or cleaning up after the rally, talking -- were surrounded by a large, angry crowd of Palestinians and their supporters. But they were not calling for peace. They screamed at us to "go back to Russia" and they screamed that they would kill us all, and other terrible things. They surrounded the praying students, and the elderly women who are our elder college participants, who survived the Shoah, who helped shape the Bay Area peace movement, only to watch as a threatening crowd shoved the Hillel students against the wall of the plaza. I had invited members of my Orthodox community to join us, members of my Board of Visitors, and we stood there in despair. Let me remind you that in building the SFSU Jewish Studies program, we asked the same people for their support and that our Jewish community, who pay for the program once as taxpayers and again as Jews, generously supports our program. Let me remind you that ours is arguably one of the Jewish Studies programs in the country most devoted to peace, justice and diversity since our inception.

As the counter demonstrators poured into the plaza, screaming at the Jews to "Get out or we will kill you" and "Hitler did not finish the job," I turned to the police and to every administrator I could find and asked them to remove the counter demonstrators from the Plaza, to maintain the separation of 100 feet that we had been promised. The police told me that they had been told not to arrest anyone, and that if they did, "it would start a riot." I told them that it already was a riot. Finally, Fred Astren, the Northern California Hillel Director and I went up directly to speak with Dean Saffold, who was watching from her post a flight above us. She told us she would call in the SF police. But the police could do nothing more than surround the Jewish students and community members who were now trapped in a corner of the plaza, grouped under the flags of Israel, while an angry, out of control mob, literally chanting for our deaths, surrounded us. Dr. Astren and I went to stand with our students. This was neither free speech nor discourse, but raw, physical assault.

Was I afraid? No, really more sad that I could not protect my students. Not one administrator came to stand with us. I knew that if a crowd of Palestinian or Black student had been there, surrounded by a crowd of white racists screaming racist threats, shielded by police, the faculty and staff would have no trouble deciding which side to stand on. In fact, the scene recalled for me many moments in the Civil Rights movement, or the United Farm Workers movement, when, as a student, I stood with Black and Latino colleagues, surrounded by hateful mobs. Then, as now, I sang peace songs, and then, as now, the hateful crowd screamed at me, "Go back to Russia, Jew." How ironic that it all took place under the picture of Cesar Chavez, who led the very demonstrations that I took part in as a student.

There was no safe way out of the Plaza. We had to be marched back to the Hillel House under armed SF police guard, and we had to have a police guard remain outside Hillel. I was very proud of the students, who did not flinch and who did not, even one time, resort to violence or anger in retaliation. Several community members who were swept up in the situation simply could not believe what they saw. One young student told me, "I have read about anti-Semitism in books, but this is the first time I have seen real anti-Semites, people who just hate me without knowing me, just because I am a Jew." She lives in the dorms. Her mother calls and urges her to transfer to a safer campus.

625 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 12:17:15pm

re: #585 wrenchwench

The Indybay link goes to their front page for me, not the specific article. I tried searching for the link at their site and got over 4,000 results.

Last line:

Today is advising day. For me, the question is an open one: what do I advise the Jewish students to do?

Laurie Zoloth,
Director, Jewish Studies Program

626 gwangung  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 12:21:06pm

re: #596 Daniel Ballard

The price that is paid for that was and is a rather hostile environment to right leaning issues/causes.

Are you saying you can't compete in the marketplace of ideas?

627 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 12:21:30pm

re: #625 SanFranciscoZionist

Last line:

Today is advising day. For me, the question is an open one: what do I advise the Jewish students to do?

Laurie Zoloth,
Director, Jewish Studies Program

Thank you.

Holy shit.

628 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 12:26:17pm

re: #621 Daniel Ballard

An environment of academic freedom would be largely blind to all these ideological differences. And that is not what we have.

In what way do you think it's not blind to these differences, in terms of hiring professors?

629 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 1:57:07pm

re: #626 gwangung

The right does about as well on campus as the left does on AM radio.
Why that is I have no idea.

630 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 1:59:39pm

re: #629 Daniel Ballard

The right does about as well on campus as the left does on AM radio.
Why that is I have no idea.

This isn't, in fact, true. For example, the Chicago School of Economics, one of the most influential in the nation, which has had an immense impact on fiscal policy in the US, is staunchly on the 'right'.

631 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 2:52:42pm

re: #630 Obdicut
Well to counter that I had this in mind-
[Link: www.publicaffairs.ubc.ca...]

Our study shows that the most elite research schools in the U.S. are also the most liberal,” says Gross. “So when conservative parents in the U.S. send their offspring to top-ranked institutions, their children may well receive an education at odds with their worldview, prompting fears of indoctrination and undue influence.”

To read the working paper “Why Professors are Liberal” by Fosse and Gross, visit: [Link: bit.ly...]

632 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 2:59:26pm

re: #631 Daniel Ballard

Yes, they are the most liberal. That is not the result of prejudice in the hiring decisions, or in seeking out liberals. It is because the majority of those people applying for those positions are liberals, the majority of those people in those fields are liberals. A large part of the reason for this is the anti-intellectualism of the right-wing.

People who are worried about indoctrination through a university system have no fucking clue what indoctrination is.

633 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 3:12:51pm

re: #632 Obdicut

I'm not worried about indoctrination, I am just observing how off center the "academic freedom" winds up working on the ground.

634 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 3:14:56pm

re: #633 Daniel Ballard

I'm not worried about indoctrination, I am just observing how off center the "academic freedom" winds up working on the ground.

Why do you put academic freedom in quotes?

635 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 3:30:34pm

re: #634 Obdicut

Because it is so far off center leaning left. The reality belies the term too often.

636 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 13, 2012 3:50:28pm

re: #635 Daniel Ballard

Because it is so far off center leaning left. The reality belies the term too often.

No, it doesn't. The reality is that we have a left-leaning academia and extremely high levels of academic freedom.

Is there some reason you think academic freedom should result in parity between the totally artificially designated 'right' and 'left' wings?


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