Gawker Releases Huge Cache of Romney Financial Documents

Some of the stuff Romney thought he could hide
Politics • Views: 19,084

Today, Gawker is releasing a large cache of confidential documents about Mitt Romney’s secret financial dealings: The Bain Files: The Documents.

Gawker has obtained a large cache of confidential internal financial documents from more than 20 secretive hedge funds and other investment vehicles in which Mitt Romney has stashed his considerable wealth. All told, the partnerships and limited liability corporations detailed below accounted for, at minimum, $10,069,000 of Romney’s assets in 2011 and yielded $913,300 in income, according to his 2012 financial disclosure (those figures are derived from adding up the low end of ranges Romney disclosed; the actual numbers could be astronomically higher).

Most of the entities are affiliated in one way or another with Bain Capital, the private equity firm Romney ran from 1984 through 1999. According to his financial disclosures, the investments “were made pursuant to an agreement with Bain Capital regarding Romney’s retirement…. The agreement has expired but [Romney] retain[s] certain investments…made prior to the expiration of the agreement.” In other words, they are his retirement package from more than a decade ago, and continue to make him nearly a million (at minimum) dollars per year.

The Republican Party is not going to like this one bit.

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113 comments
1 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:46:52am

nice tidbit over at dailyKos:

Cook flags something interesting: Romney's retirement package includes investment funds that weren't created until years after he claimed to have retired. One such fund was created in the summer of 2002; another in 2008. Romney's claim that he had no involvement with Bain after February, 1999 has already been thoroughly debunked, and these documents once again underscore that Romney's involvement in Bain continued long after he claims.

2 CuriousLurker  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:47:23am

Dang, Mittens just can't catch a break can he? If he wasn't such a weaselly flip-flopper I'd almost feel sorry for him.

3 jc717  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:47:49am

This will put more pressure on Romney to release his tax returns.

I wonder if Romney was one of the people who accepted the IRS tax amnesty deal for that Swiss bank tax avoidance scheme.

Not saying that he was, I'm just asking questions. Do we know for sure that he wasn't? How do we know? :-)

4 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:48:14am

re: #3 jc717

I wonder if Romney was one of the people who accepted the IRS tax amnesty deal for that Swiss bank tax avoidance scheme.

Yeah, I bet he is.

5 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:48:28am

Right about now the Romney camps is probably running around like a bunch of spastic tubes!

6 erik_t  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:48:29am

He'll just say they made it up. It's no bigger stretch than any other financial lie Romney's told.

7 freetoken  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:48:43am
... All told, the partnerships and limited liability corporations detailed below accounted for, at minimum, $10,069,000 of Romney’s assets in 2011 ...

All told, that is something like 5% of Romney's assets.

8 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:49:24am

Oh, to be a fly on the wall at the Romney campaign HQ.

9 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:49:55am

So is there anything juicy in this cache? Seems like the chatter quickly died down on Twitter.

10 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:50:08am
11 Bulworth  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:50:14am

Hey, he's just been successful, you're criticizing success! Also too whoever leaked this information should be arrested and punished and sent to Guantanamo. Treason!

12 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:50:29am

re: #9 Gus

So is there anything juicy in this cache? Seems like the chatter quickly died down on Twitter.

It takes a long time to browse through 950 pages.

13 freetoken  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:50:47am

re: #10 The Ghost of a Flea

linky brokey..

anyway, those things are probably all legal.

14 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:51:57am

re: #9 Gus

So is there anything juicy in this cache? Seems like the chatter quickly died down on Twitter.

Since it's basically a document dump, I'm guessing people are either chewing through the docs or waiting for others to post after chewing through the docs.

15 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:52:08am

re: #13 freetoken

linky brokey..

anyway, those things are probably all legal.

That's what I'm afraid of. Basically a bunch of things that might look bad from first glance but are probably legal. So it's not really a "tax dodge" but a "tax exemption".

16 Lidane  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:52:11am

Dear Mitt,

This is why releasing your tax returns for multiple years is a good idea.

Just FYI.

Sincerely,
Me

17 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:52:22am

re: #13 freetoken

legal != ethical.

but then again Mitt isn't known for ethics.

18 Charles Johnson  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:52:54am
19 freetoken  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:52:55am

re: #15 Gus

The tax code has been engineered by representatives bought by wealthy people. For whom do you think said tax code will benefit?

20 erik_t  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:53:11am

re: #15 Gus

That's what I'm afraid of. Basically a bunch of things that might look bad from first glance but are probably legal. So it's not really a "tax dodge" but a "tax exemption".

He's a terrible politician, not a terrible businessman. I never expected anyone to find something outright illegal in his returns.

21 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:54:09am

re: #13 freetoken

linky brokey..

anyway, those things are probably all legal.

I think I fixed it.

I'm not sure the quest is just to find illegal stuff.

It's also to autopsy all the legal dodges available to the very rich. For a lot of folks, the means available to stash money, or claim "it's not my money (but it is)" are going to be an infuriating eye-opener.

22 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:56:13am

re: #15 Gus

That's what I'm afraid of. Basically a bunch of things that might look bad from first glance but are probably legal. So it's not really a "tax dodge" but a "tax exemption".

And personally, I consider that more damning that proof of illegal activities. The lame argument that it's "no different" than a middle class person using whatever tax exemptions/credits that he can to avoid paying more is a joke. The sort of cash that Romney has likely avoided paying taxes on in one year could cover those exemptions/credits for a middle class person several years over.

23 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:56:48am

re: #1 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

nice tidbit over at dailyKos:

Which is just about what I expect from this "secret" stash of documents. Funds and stocks roll over, split off, etc. There's nothing unusual about this. Even Gawker admits they have no idea what the documents contain or what they mean. I think it's a safe bet they didn't do the research themselves. Somebody gave them, probably the Obama campaign. They didn't leak them to a reputable news source with financial knowledge. Looks like more nonsense from Gawker, TPM and I assume Mother Jones is in the loop too. Just like the previous bogus "scoops" from this crew, I'm not expecting a different outcome from this one.

24 erik_t  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:57:22am

ThinkProgressM has a well-known liberal bias.

/

25 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:57:25am

Yikes. That Sankaty news is rather messy.

26 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:58:15am

re: #23 Killgore Trout

Which is just about what I expect from this "secret" stash of documents. Funds and stocks roll over, split off, etc. There's nothing unusual about this. Even Gawker admits they have no idea what the documents contain or what they mean. I think it's a safe bet they didn't do the research themselves. Somebody gave them, probably the Obama campaign. They didn't leak them to a reputable news source with financial knowledge. Looks like more nonsense from Gawker, TPM and I assume Mother Jones is in the loop too. Just like the previous bogus "scoops" from this crew, I'm not expecting a different outcome from this one.

Hey! Don't put TPM in the same box as Gawker. TPM is way above them IMO.

27 makeitstop  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:58:43am

re: #23 Killgore Trout

Somebody gave them, probably the Obama campaign.

That's one hell of an accusation, right there.

28 Lidane  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:58:57am

re: #23 Killgore Trout

Because you already know everything that's in all 950 pages. Right?

29 makeitstop  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:59:30am

re: #28 Lidane

Because you already know everything that's in all 950 pages. Right?

Of course. It's all actually pretty standard.
//

30 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:59:54am

re: #23 Killgore Trout

Which is just about what I expect from this "secret" stash of documents. Funds and stocks roll over, split off, etc. There's nothing unusual about this. Even Gawker admits they have no idea what the documents contain or what they mean. I think it's a safe bet they didn't do the research themselves. Somebody gave them, probably the Obama campaign. They didn't leak them to a reputable news source with financial knowledge. Looks like more nonsense from Gawker, TPM and I assume Mother Jones is in the loop too. Just like the previous bogus "scoops" from this crew, I'm not expecting a different outcome from this one.

OK. I finally read this. You're also throwing in a TPM and Mother Jones being in the loop conspiracy theory? Come on. That's a little much.

31 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:00:08am

re: #26 Gus

Hey! Don't put TPM in the same box as Gawker. TPM is way above them IMO.

I don't think so. I see Mother Jones is on the case too. My hunch is there's nothing here but that won't keep them from finding stuff. I'm not expecting much.

32 gwangung  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:00:35am

re: #23 Killgore Trout

Which is just about what I expect from this "secret" stash of documents. Funds and stocks roll over, split off, etc. There's nothing unusual about this. Even Gawker admits they have no idea what the documents contain or what they mean. I think it's a safe bet they didn't do the research themselves. Somebody gave them, probably the Obama campaign. They didn't leak them to a reputable news source with financial knowledge. Looks like more nonsense from Gawker, TPM and I assume Mother Jones is in the loop too. Just like the previous bogus "scoops" from this crew, I'm not expecting a different outcome from this one.

Weak sauce from someone who keeps trumpeting their ignorance on tax and security law.

This on the same level as the CEO/COO status in SEC documents?

33 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:01:31am

re: #23 Killgore Trout

Which is just about what I expect from this "secret" stash of documents. Funds and stocks roll over, split off, etc. There's nothing unusual about this. Even Gawker admits they have no idea what the documents contain or what they mean. I think it's a safe bet they didn't do the research themselves. Somebody gave them, probably the Obama campaign. They didn't leak them to a reputable news source with financial knowledge. Looks like more nonsense from Gawker, TPM and I assume Mother Jones is in the loop too. Just like the previous bogus "scoops" from this crew, I'm not expecting a different outcome from this one.

It could also have been a Paul-bot or a hard-core TPer. The Paulistas still entertain some faint hope that their guy could be nominee if Romney is forced to resign before the actual nomination.

34 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:01:47am

re: #23 Killgore Trout

Which is just about what I expect from this "secret" stash of documents. Funds and stocks roll over, split off, etc. There's nothing unusual about this. Even Gawker admits they have no idea what the documents contain or what they mean. I think it's a safe bet they didn't do the research themselves. Somebody gave them, probably the Obama campaign. They didn't leak them to a reputable news source with financial knowledge. Looks like more nonsense from Gawker, TPM and I assume Mother Jones is in the loop too. Just like the previous bogus "scoops" from this crew, I'm not expecting a different outcome from this one.

For fuck's sake.

35 wrenchwench  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:01:53am

re: #31 Killgore Trout

My hunch is there's nothing here but that won't keep them from finding stuff.

lol

36 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:02:00am

re: #30 Gus

OK. I finally read this. You're also throwing in a TPM and Mother Jones being in the loop conspiracy theory? Come on. That's a little much.

TPM and Mother Jones were hyping the same bogus story about Mitt's signature on the SEC forms not too long ago. It was nothing outrageous and just confirmed what we already know. It was an outrageous outrage.

37 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:03:10am

re: #31 Killgore Trout

I don't think so. I see Mother Jones is on the case too. My hunch is there's nothing here but that won't keep them from finding stuff. I'm not expecting much.

I have no idea where Gawker got these documents from. It could have been Wikileaks for all I know. Saying that it's from the White House is hearsay and basically a negative. Of course Mother Jones will be "on the case."

38 erik_t  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:03:35am

If I were the Obama campaign and I had access to this shit, I'd totally leak it to Gawker.

For crying out loud.

39 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:04:05am

re: #36 Killgore Trout

TPM and Mother Jones were hyping the same bogus story about Mitt's signature on the SEC forms not too long ago. It was nothing outrageous and just confirmed what we already know. It was an outrageous outrage.

Again. Of course TP and MoJo is going to "hype" this. This is a big story. This is what they do.

40 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:04:34am

re: #36 Killgore Trout

TPM and Mother Jones were hyping the same bogus story about Mitt's signature on the SEC forms not too long ago. It was nothing outrageous and just confirmed what we already know. It was an outrageous outrage.

You mean the "outrage" that you spent days downplaying, even as the factchecker you cited went from bland refusal to reconsider his initial position to admitting there was too much grey area to make any conclusions?

41 Kragar  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:05:07am

Needs more rapey stabby for some people.

42 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:05:44am

CNN:Gawker's worthless 'Bain files

Gawker today published what it's calling The Bain Files, hundreds of pages of audited financials and private placement memoranda for old Bain Capital funds. Let me save you some time: There is nothing in there that will inform your opinion of Mitt Romney.

How do I know? Because I saw many of the exact same documents months ago, after requesting them from a Bain Capital investor. What I quickly learned was that there was little of interest, except perhaps for private equity geeks who want to know exactly how much Bain paid for a particular company back in 2006.
...
I totally understand why a stack of papers marked "confidential" seems exciting, particularly for those without a deep understanding of private equity. And I'm not taking any position on if Romney did or didn't duck taxes at some point, either related or unrelated to Bain holdings. All I'm saying is that Gawker has posted tons of smoke without any fire.

That didn't take long.

43 Lidane  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:06:03am

re: #38 erik_t

If I were the Obama campaign and I had access to this shit, I'd totally leak it to Gawker.

For crying out loud.

I know my first choice for news leaks when I'm running a presidential campaign is Gawker. I mean, it's not like CNN, MSNBC, the NYT, WaPo or other, more traditional outlets exist or anything.

///

44 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:06:27am

re: #36 Killgore Trout

TPM and Mother Jones were hyping the same bogus story about Mitt's signature on the SEC forms not too long ago.

It's not a bogus story that Mitt Romney signed those forms, though. It's completely true.

Why would you call that a bogus story?

45 erik_t  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:07:23am

re: #42 Killgore Trout

CNN:Gawker's worthless 'Bain files

That didn't take long.

Bain investors are in the habit of handing out proprietary confidential company information?

Weird, if true.

46 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:07:34am

re: #42 Killgore Trout

CNN:Gawker's worthless 'Bain files

That didn't take long.

That doesn't surprise me either.

47 Lidane  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:07:42am

re: #41 Kragar

Needs more rapey stabby for some people.

Heh.

If those 950 pages were about the Occupy movement, KT would be interested. Too bad those pages are just about Mitt Romney's financial dealings. Guess there's no reason for anyone to care about that.

48 Charles Johnson  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:08:52am

re: #23 Killgore Trout

So your theory is that the Obama administration somehow got their hands on confidential Bain Capital documents, and decided the best way to use them would be to .. leak them to Gawker?

Srsly?

49 lawhawk  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:08:56am

re: #15 Gus

It's the difference between tax avoidance (legal) and tax evasion (illegal). He's doing everything imaginable to avoid a tax outcome, but within the rules at the time.

I'm real curious about the source of the info though.

Gawker has obtained a massive cache of confidential financial documents that shed a great deal of light on those finances, and on the tax-dodging tricks available to the hyper-rich that he has used to keep his effective tax rate at roughly 13% over the last decade.

Where'd this come from? Someone within Bain with an axe to grind? The campaign itself as a way to quiet the tax talk without officially releasing the records and appearing weak or answering the Obama campaign's demands? Some other third party source?

50 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:09:36am

Love this comment on the CNN article:

You threw on your captain-save-a-Mitt cape very quickly, Dan! You didn't release them because you wanted to protect him from getting caught in lies & now you're salty.

51 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:10:19am

re: #42 Killgore Trout

CNN:Gawker's worthless 'Bain files

That didn't take long.

And in his dismissal of it all, he still brings up the most important bit:

Finally, many of Gawker's documents are for year-end 2009 (mine were for year-end 2008). As such, we can't even compare them to Romney's tax returns, since the GOP nominee still stubbornly refuses to release them.

52 Lidane  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:10:32am

re: #48 Charles Johnson

So your theory is that the Obama administration somehow got their hands on confidential Bain Capital documents, and decided the best way to use them would be to .. leak them to Gawker?

Srsly?

Not enough OWS to keep KT's interest, so it must be a conspiracy. After all, why would anyone give a shit about Mitt Romney's financial dealings?

54 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:12:16am

OT- I know it's early. Hurricane update as of 2PM. If it follows this track it will be a rain maker with strong sustained winds and stronger gust.
[Link: www.nhc.noaa.gov...]
BBL

55 makeitstop  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:12:23am
And I'm not taking any position on if Romney did or didn't duck taxes at some point, either related or unrelated to Bain holdings.

Why, isn't that a handy little escape hatch?

How closely did he read them? How well did he understand them?

I guess the jury's still out on that, eh?

56 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:12:26am

A leaker who wanted these documents publicized would hardly give them to a right-wing or non-partisan outlet, regardless of the leaker's actual motivation and affiliation. Giving them to a lefty outlet guarantees publication.

57 Lidane  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:12:32am

re: #45 erik_t

Bain investors are in the habit of handing out proprietary confidential company information?

Weird, if true.

Fucking Non-Disclosure Agreements. How do they work?

58 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:13:05am

re: #48 Charles Johnson

So your theory is that the Obama administration somehow got their hands on confidential Bain Capital documents, and decided the best way to use them would be to .. leak them to Gawker?

Srsly?

According to CNN the documents have been around for a while. Somebody put them together and gave to Gawker. Probably because a real news organization with knowledge of financial matters (like CNN) would find them uninteresting.

59 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:13:18am

re: #42 Killgore Trout

CNN:Gawker's worthless 'Bain files

That didn't take long.

60 dragonfire1981  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:13:28am

re: #48 Charles Johnson

So your theory is that the Obama administration somehow got their hands on confidential Bain Capital documents, and decided the best way to use them would be to .. leak them to Gawker?

Srsly?

I half-expected that to be the Romney team's response: The documents are faked and were leaked by someone on the Obama campaign to hurt Romney. Fits the narrative perfectly.

61 erik_t  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:14:27am

Nothing to see here.

Even more drastic, Sankaty Credit Opportunities IV—of which Romney owns more than $1 million in his IRA and which earned him between $50,000 and $100,000 in 2011, and which is likewise described as an investment made pursuant to his retirement package—wasn't even created until July 2008. That's nine years after his retirement from Bain and five months after he withdrew from the 2008 GOP primary.

Romney's defenders have claimed that the abundant evidence that his involvement with Bain extended past 1999—and therefore implicated him in some of the firm's more controversial actions—was a smokescreen, and that the various SEC forms listing him as "sole stockholder, chairman of the board, chief executive officer, and president" of Bain were mere formalities while his retirement was being negotiated. That may be true, but it's difficult to explain an apparent $1 million-plus payment from Bain, made in 2008, as being pursuant to a retirement package that was negotiated in 1999.

Uninteresting.

62 Lidane  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:14:27am

re: #58 Killgore Trout

Or maybe those documents are worthless without the tax returns to compare them to.

Logic is hard.

63 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:15:12am

re: #56 Shiplord Kirel

A leaker who wanted these documents publicized would hardly give them to a right-wing or non-partisan outlet, regardless of the leaker's actual motivation and affiliation. Giving them to a lefty outlet guarantees publication.

Agreed. Not only guarantees publication but also guarantees that they'll be publicized as a big outrageous treasure trove of secret awesomeness. The CNN guy had the documents too. He could have published them but found them boring and uninteresting.

64 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:15:42am

re: #59 Gus

[Embedded content]

Heh

65 erik_t  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:15:56am

Documents went to CNN, which is a Real Source, so they can be assumed to be factual. Romney's retroactive-retirement span is now up to nearly a decade.

Boring. Uninteresting.

66 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:15:56am

re: #58 Killgore Trout

According to CNN the documents have been around for a while. Somebody put them together and gave to Gawker. Probably because a real news organization with knowledge of financial matters (like CNN) would find them uninteresting.

Is this another round of you continuing to pound the "confirmation bias" button even as your own expert slowly admits that his initial conclusions were biased?

67 Lidane  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:16:52am

re: #65 erik_t

Documents went to CNN, which is a Real Source, so they can be assumed to be factual. Romney's retroactive-retirement span is now up to nearly a decade.

Boring. Uninteresting.

Yep. No reason to care about Mitt Romney's finances at all. I mean, it's not like he's applying for a job or anything.

68 neilk  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:18:27am

As Dylan Byers put it, it doesn't matter if the documents have a "smoking gun" or not. It doesn't matter if they're boring. What matters is that they're put out there. I can't accept that reporting them in the proper context means not reporting them at all. Maybe if Romney was just some financial wizard, but he's not -- he's a serious candidate for President.

Primack clearly did his readers a disservice by deciding that he should conceal this from them, in favor of a listicle about the top 10 coolest cars.

69 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:19:13am

re: #64 Killgore Trout

Heh

I don't know. I'm pretty cynical about this story myself. If it's all just confidential documents of legal activity then it doesn't have legs. If it just repeats what we already know about Romney's history with Bain it doesn't have legs. About the most I'm seeing so far is the Sankaty Credit connection with Adelson.

70 lawhawk  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:19:45am

Rally around Akin, with a pocketful of bibles. Among those preaching that - Tony Perkins and David Lane.

It's Rage Against the Liberalssellouts in the GOP.

Lane makes it explicit that he thinks that GOP operatives are trying to submarine Akin just as they did to Palin in 2008 - claiming that it's some of the same people involved.

71 lawhawk  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:21:24am

re: #69 Gus

950 pages of legitimate transactions is just that - 950 pages of commercial transactions. The only reason they'd be of interest is that they involve Bain, which was Romney's former job/employer/company.

72 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:21:58am

re: #58 Killgore Trout

According to CNN the documents have been around for a while. Somebody put them together and gave to Gawker. Probably because a real news organization with knowledge of financial matters (like CNN) would find them uninteresting.

And...so what?

1. You're using argument from authority: CNN guy says, therefore it must be valid, and noone else can analyze the documents better or different.

2. You're fluffing fact with assumption: CNN didn't do something with the materials, therefore nothing is interesting or worth publishing. Heck you're not even noting that his piece talks about the stuff being useless unless compared to (unreleased tax returns).

3. The standard of the CNN in his article is "this is all normal stuff" in the sense of not-illegal and not-atypical--which doesn't mean that it doesn't have informative value. Most people don't know the normal stuff that rich people and companies use to legally not pay taxes: this sampling is actually really telling about what is business-as-usual.

4. You're assuming that your tastes, and your assumptions, based on your tastes, have some kind of validity.

It may turn out that the entire thing is hype or worthless, but your prognostication is just a bag o' fallacies.

73 freetoken  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:23:03am

re: #69 Gus

... If it's all just confidential documents of legal activity then it doesn't have legs. ....

It ought to, though. IMO, what is evidenced so clearly in this campaign is the nature of wealth in politics, how tax laws are created by the wealthy for the wealthy, and the institutional asymmetry in our so called "democracy".

74 neilk  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:23:47am

re: #69 Gus

It's interesting even if it simply verifies what we were told was probably true before.

75 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:24:51am

re: #23 Killgore Trout

Which is just about what I expect from this "secret" stash of documents. Funds and stocks roll over, split off, etc. There's nothing unusual about this. Even Gawker admits they have no idea what the documents contain or what they mean. I think it's a safe bet they didn't do the research themselves. Somebody gave them, probably the Obama campaign. They didn't leak them to a reputable news source with financial knowledge. Looks like more nonsense from Gawker, TPM and I assume Mother Jones is in the loop too. Just like the previous bogus "scoops" from this crew, I'm not expecting a different outcome from this one.

Is it illegal for me to give out your true name, address, home and cell phone number, etc. on the intertoobs? Is it illegal? Is it something that most people would look on with disdain if done? From what I can find it is not illegal to do those things, and we have seen it done before on the nets with seemingly no arrests. But just because it isn't illegal doesn't mean it is right or should be done by anyone other than scumbags.

76 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:25:48am

re: #71 lawhawk

950 pages of legitimate transactions is just that - 950 pages of commercial transactions. The only reason they'd be of interest is that they involve Bain, which was Romney's former job/employer/company.

Not only involve Bain, but cover a large portion of time that is otherwise a mystery due to Bain's repeated refusals to release documents on the grounds of "investor privacy" as well as the Romney campaign's refusal to release more than 1 year's worth of tax documents.

77 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:26:19am

re: #73 freetoken

It ought to, though. IMO, what is evidenced so clearly in this campaign is the nature of wealth in politics, how tax laws are created by the wealthy for the wealthy, and the institutional asymmetry in our so called "democracy".

It's enlightening that's for sure. Consider it a form of transparency.

78 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:28:04am

re: #66 Targetpractice

Is this another round of you continuing to pound the "confirmation bias" button even as your own expert slowly admits that his initial conclusions were biased?

Some sources of news are reputable, others aren't If Fox News, Rasmussen, Washington Examiner and WND start running healines like "Big Trouble for Obama Campaign!", "Secret Outrageous Documents Discovered", etc I consider it scroll over territory and probably nothing interesting.
I'm sure this scandal will get lots of attention from Mother Jones, TPM, DKOS and MSNBC but I'll be surprised if it ever comes to anything. Early signs aren't looking promising.

79 Lidane  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:29:28am

And to think, if Mitt had just released his tax returns like every other candidate has in the past, this would never have been a story at all.

80 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:29:38am

Things like this make things confusing...

[Link: www.opensecrets.org...]

81 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:30:17am

re: #78 Killgore Trout

Some sources of news are reputable, others aren't If Fox News, Rasmussen, Washington Examiner and WND start running healines like "Big Trouble for Obama Campaign!", "Secret Outrageous Documents Discovered", etc I consider it scroll over territory and probably nothing interesting.
I'm sure this scandal will get lots of attention from Mother Jones, TPM, DKOS and MSNBC but I'll be surprised if it ever comes to anything. Early signs aren't looking promising.

So one man at CNN says "I've seen the documents and decided for myself that there's nothing of interest there," and you decide that's all you need to know on the matter.

Willful ignorance can only get you so far.

82 erik_t  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:32:45am

I thought I had about the lowest opinion of Gawker of anybody, but I'd never put them in the same breath as World Nut Daily or Drudge.

Learn something new every day, I guess.

83 CuriousLurker  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:33:08am

LOL, okay, if we're going the conspiracy theory route how about this: The RNC starts next Monday. Romney's not doing well—the religious right is pissed over Akin, Ryan is tied to killing Medicare & extreme abortion legislation, people still want to see Romney's taxes, and he's still a flip-flopper & uncharismatic, tone deaf super-rich guy who's not very likeable.

Hmm, who would benefit the most right now from a distraction that turns out to be a big fat pile of nothing?

SQUIRREL!!

84 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:34:26am

Bain is not trending.

85 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:36:02am

re: #83 CuriousLurker

LOL, okay, if we're going the conspiracy theory route how about this: The RNC starts next Monday. Romney's not doing well—the religious right is pissed over Akin, Ryan is tied to killing Medicare & extreme abortion legislation, people still want to see Romney's taxes, and he's still a flip-flopper & uncharismatic, tone deaf super-rich guy who's not very likeable.

Hmm, who would benefit the most right now from a distraction that turns out to be a big fat pile of nothing?

SQUIRREL!!

Of course if the Romney campaign wanted to have some fun they could have "leaked" the documents with a few Easter Egg surprises to discredit the partisan hacks who fall for them. There are many reasons to be cautious about this story and the people hyping it. By all means, feel free to knock yourself out but I doubt this is going to be anything aside from a source of outrageous outrage.

86 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:38:15am

re: #84 Gus

Bain is not trending.

Although Bain still gets a lot of attention from partisans I think a lot of people have seen these stories before and they don't pan out. Possibly too much wolf crying has tainted the audience.

87 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:40:38am

Didn't even make the front page of reddit.

88 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:41:13am

re: #87 Killgore Trout

Didn't even make the front page of reddit.

I consider myself a partisan. However, I try to be pragmatic about things. It's hard work sometimes!

89 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:42:32am

Guess you can say the 24 hour rule applies here.

90 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:44:30am

re: #89 Gus

Guess you can say the 24 hour rule applies here.

I'm sure MSNBC will hype it tonight and maybe for the next few days. It might take off but that still doesn't mean there anything meaningful. We'll see.

91 Interesting Times  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:45:28am

re: #84 Gus

Bain is not trending.

What version of trends are you looking at? This is what I see:

#innovategov
The Bain Files
Gawker

#Isaac
#ThingsINeverGetTiredOfSeeing
Dan Henderson
LWWY
Dana White
Chael Sonnen
Jon Jones

92 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:45:53am

re: #90 Killgore Trout

I'm sure MSNBC will hype it tonight and maybe for the next few days. It might take off but that still doesn't mean there anything meaningful. We'll see.

Slate is saying that they "crowd sourced" this document dump. I figure that by now the people who are looking at these documents is in the 10s of thousands. Haven't heard of any smoking gun yet.

93 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:46:49am

re: #91 Interesting Times

What version of trends are you looking at? This is what I see:

Weird. United States... Did a refresh and...

#TheApparition Promoted
#ThingsINeverGetTiredOfSeeing
#ImReallyGoodAt
#YouAreMoreAttractiveIf
Greg Jackson
Chael Sonnen
John Q
Jon Jones
VA Beach
Dana

94 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:47:27am

re: #93 Gus

Weird. United States... Did a refresh and...

#TheApparition Promoted
#ThingsINeverGetTiredOfSeeing
#ImReallyGoodAt
#YouAreMoreAttractiveIf
Greg Jackson
Chael Sonnen
John Q
Jon Jones
VA Beach
Dana

Bwah?

95 Interesting Times  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:48:49am

re: #93 Gus

Weird. United States... Did a refresh and...

I think mine are set to "world".

96 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:49:00am

re: #94 Targetpractice

Bwah?

Sacramento Kings are moving to VA Beach

97 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:49:28am

re: #95 Interesting Times

I think mine are set to "world".

It changes in real time. So it might pop back into a trend again.

98 CuriousLurker  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:49:55am

re: #85 Killgore Trout

Of course if the Romney campaign wanted to have some fun they could have "leaked" the documents with a few Easter Egg surprises to discredit the partisan hacks who fall for them. There are many reasons to be cautious about this story and the people hyping it. By all means, feel free to knock yourself out but I doubt this is going to be anything aside from a source of outrageous outrage.

Nah, I'm really not that into it. In case you haven't noticed, going all the way back to the OWS stuff I've mostly sat on the sidelines during the slap-and-ding fights. You go ahead and keep on keepin' on though. More power to you.

99 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:50:42am

re: #90 Killgore Trout

I'm sure MSNBC will hype it tonight and maybe for the next few days. It might take off but that still doesn't mean there anything meaningful. We'll see.

Here's the punch line to all of this.

100 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:52:10am

There is another possibility. This could have also been leaked by... wait for it... the Romney campaign.

101 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:52:43am

re: #96 Gus

Sacramento Kings are moving to VA Beach

Huh, first I'm hearing of this. Though in truth I'm not much of an NBA follower.

102 Petero1818  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:52:46am

The fact that the mere mention of a stash of documents is enough to chew up hours of media and blog time is an indication of how poorly this issue has been managed by the Romney campaign. The reality is that a person with as much money and as man investments as Mittens has is going to generate a whole lot of paperwork. Most of it completely benign and uninteresting. But its mere existence, is enough to get the crowds going, wondering, postulating, theorizing. Even with the possibility there isn't anything in these documents, 50% of the damage is already done. Controlling the message is part of any campaign. In the last 2 weeks, here is all I have heard from the campaign trail.
D. Show us your taxes.
R. No
D. You must be hiding something to not live up to the standard set by your Father.
R. No - We have given you people all you are going to get.
D. We have it on good authority that you didn't pay taxes.
R. Not True. You guys are just trying to avoid talking about the economy.
R. Hey everybody, Meet my VP - Paul Ryan.
D. He is an ideologue with crazy ideas.
R. No, he is young, good looking, mavericky, and an intellectual leader.
D. Ummm, his intellectual leadership can be seen in 2 bills, and one crazy road map to doom that is somehow short on facts. Plus he hates women.
R. Obamacare sucks.
R. Rape isn't really rape unless we say it is, and you can't get pregnant from it, and no abortions for anyone. Ever.
R. Hey someone shut that idiot in Missouri up.
D. No , let him speak.
R. Dude, shut up. We don't agree with you.
D. Funny, your VP does.
R. Even though I chose him for his intellectual leadership and big ideas, I don't agree with any of them.
D. What about your taxes?

When was the last time anyone talked about the economy? This campaign is a total disaster for Mitt.

103 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:54:04am
104 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:57:54am

re: #100 Gus

There is another possibility. This could have also been leaked by... wait for it... the Romney campaign.

I postulated that they might do that with a few fakes mixed in but they still might have leaked the real thing themselves. Nobody's paying attention, previously hyped Bain stories fell apart. Here we have another Bain scoop that doesn't look like it's going anywhere. Unless I was posting here and debating the topic I would have skipped over the story myself.

105 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:58:38am

re: #104 Killgore Trout

I postulated that they might do that with a few fakes mixed in but they still might have leaked the real thing themselves. Nobody's paying attention, previously hyped Bain stories fell apart. Here we have another Bain scoop that doesn't look like it's going anywhere. Unless I was posting here and debating the topic I would have skipped over the story myself.

106 MittDoesNotCompute  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 12:21:19pm

re: #23 Killgore Trout

You're really going for the "IT'S A LIBRUL CONSPIRACY!!!11ty" there, KT?

It's beneath you...

107 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 12:46:18pm

Business Insider: We Got Excited About Gawker's Huge Dump Of Romney Investment Info... But Here's The Truth About What's There

But it appears that folks looking for a bombshell are going to be disappointed. Even the sub-stories that Cook pulled are less than meets the eye.

For example, there's a story titled Mitt Romney Is The National Enquirer's Banker.

The gist? One of Mitt Romney's funds called Sankaty High Yield Partners II LP (which is Bain-affiliated) owns a $4 million loan to American Media Inc., which is the company that owns the National Enquirer.

Even if you can stretch this into Romney being a "banker" to American Media, it's not even new news.

108 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 12:49:07pm

Market Watch: Confidential documents from Romney’s fund holdings released

While interesting, there isn’t anything at first blush that looks game changing.

109 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 12:50:02pm

Salon: Secret Bain documents reveal that Mitt Romney is rich

The candidate has a lot of money doing complicated things in a lot of strange places

110 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 12:50:48pm

re: #106 TedStriker

You're really going for the "IT'S A LIBRUL CONSPIRACY!!!11ty" there, KT?

It's beneath you...

So far it's looks like my initial reaction was correct. You're welcome.

111 blueraven  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 1:07:54pm

re: #110 Killgore Trout

So far it's looks like my initial reaction was correct. You're welcome.

Nice cherry picking of quotes from the articles KT.

112 Belafon  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 3:08:06pm

re: #108 Killgore Trout
re: #109 Killgore Trout

So basically, they are confirming everything people thought about Romney: He used his money to buy his way out of contributing to the welfare of the country that has allowed him to succeed.

113 S'latch  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 11:28:11am

"The secret of great fortunes without apparent cause is a crime forgotten, for it was properly done." -- Honoré de Balzac.


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