Paul Ryan Explains: Rape Is Just a “Method of Conception”

Inhuman, evil bastards
Politics • Views: 42,281

Here’s Republican vice presidential candidate Paul Ryan in an interview last week with a horrifyingly calloused comment about rape victims, explaining why he would force women to bear the children of rapists — because “the method of conception doesn’t change the definition of life.”

YouTube Video

A transcript:

Interviewer: Abortion now… something we’re talking about and I think our viewers want to know exactly where you stand, specifically, you’re pro-life, Catholic…

Ryan: Oh yeah, yeah.

Interviewer: But specifically where you stand when it comes to rape, and when it comes to the issue of, should it be legal for a woman to be able to get an abortion if she’s…

Ryan: Yeah, well, so, I’m very proud of my pro-life record, and I’ve always adopted the idea, the position that the method of conception doesn’t change the definition of life.

But let’s remember, I’m doing the Romney-Ryan ticket, and the President makes policy. The President, in this case, the future President Mitt Romney, has exceptions for rape, incest, and life of the mother, which is a vast improvement of where we are right now.

In other words, Ryan sees Mitt Romney’s already extreme anti-abortion positions as a good start.

Also see
Paul Slansky: Paul Ryan Said Something That Should Force Him Off the Ticket, but You Probably Didn’t Hear About It

Last week, Paul Ryan gave an interview in which, defending his position that there should be no excuses for abortion, he referred to rape as a “method of conception.”

Wow, right? Talk about a benign euphemism. Rape — RAPE! — is now a “method of conception.” You know, like love-making, just without the love.

There could be no greater testament to the utter abdication of responsibility by what passes for a “news” media in America in 2012 than that, despite the grotesquerie of this cavalierly callous comment, chances are better than good that this is the first you’re hearing of it.

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472 comments
1 HappyWarrior  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 1:29:27pm

How is this really any different from Akin said? Sure he didn't suggest that rape was legitimate but he definitely acted like being raped and then getting pregnant was "just a method of conception." Ryan's an as big sexist as Akin is.

2 Kragar  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 1:29:47pm

Evil fucker is evil.

3 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 1:31:55pm

"Lady, I don't care how you got pregnant, I just care that you are. And I care because my religion says pregnant women can't have abortions. Now stop whining about being raped and accept the gift you've been given."

4 makeitstop  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 1:32:10pm

Nothing these assholes say surprises me any more.

Ryan is every bit as tone-deaf as his presumptive boss. If there's any justice, the women's vote will put Obama back in the Big Chair for another term.

5 Charles Johnson  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 1:32:35pm

If you really follow the logic of what he's saying, the rapist is doing God's work.

6 Kragar  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 1:33:15pm

re: #5 Charles Johnson

If you really follow the logic of what he's saying, the rapist is doing God's work.

Its just like having a kid out of wedlock, really.
///

7 mr.fusion  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 1:33:28pm

And he tries to explain it away in other interviews by saying that Mitt Romney's the nominee so it's his policy that matters.

Hey asshole, the VP is one heartbeat away....it's kind of the whole thing about being the VP.

YOUR

POSITIONS

MATTER

8 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 1:34:05pm

re: #5 Charles Johnson

If you really follow the logic of what he's saying, the rapist is doing God's work.

Any god who would visit rape upon a woman is not a god I wish to be associated with. And sure as fuck don't want his "word" as the basis for our laws.

9 Eclectic Infidel  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 1:34:51pm

Best question to ask Ryan: is this what you want for your wife if she was impregnated by a rapist? What about your daughter? Would you look into their eyes and tell them it was god's will they were raped?

10 erik_t  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 1:35:04pm

Rape is a method of conception in the same sense that genocide is a method of reducing humanity's environmental impact.

11 blueraven  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 1:35:53pm

re: #7 mr.fusion

And he tries to explain it away in other interviews by saying that Mitt Romney's the nominee so it's his policy.

Hey asshole, the VP is one heartbeat away....it's kind of the big deal about being the VP.

YOUR

POSITIONS

MATTER

Mitt Romney already said he would sign a person-hood bill if it was passed. Who do they think they are fooling here?

12 makeitstop  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 1:36:51pm

re: #11 blueraven

Mitt Romney already said he would sign a person-hood bill if it was passed. Who do they think they are fooling here?

They seem to have mastered that whole 'bad cop, worse cop' routine.

13 Kragar  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 1:37:08pm

God can give a man the desire to rape a woman, but he can't inspire a man to create multiple means to make sure she isn't forced to conceive the rapist's child.

Ryan's God is a cruel and malevolent god and I will have no business with either of them.

14 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 1:37:43pm

I tried to read the Kay Bailey Hutchinson article [Link: inamerica.blogs.cnn.com...] this morning. I could not get through it.
Opinion: Unfriendly to women? Not my GOP

I only got as far as this

The assertion is baseless. Having served 19 years in the Senate, and as a lifelong Republican, I have some perspective.

Some perspective?!

15 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 1:38:15pm

re: #12 makeitstop

They seem to have mastered that whole 'bad cop, worse cop' routine.

Ryan out there to bring the base back to the ticket while Romney finally gets a short break to attempt to moderate himself. Instead, Ryan's so nutty that Romney's moderation still ain't anywhere close to the political center.

16 The Left  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 1:39:02pm

Freedom's just another word for already being screwed.

17 Kragar  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 1:41:34pm

Up next, Ryan explains how getting shot in the head is a natural death because its God's will and what can be more natural than dying after you get shot in the head.

18 brennant  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 1:41:46pm

re: #7 mr.fusion

YOUR

POSITIONS

MATTER

As long as it is missionary.

/

19 Kragar  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 1:42:36pm

re: #15 Targetpractice

Ryan out there to bring the base back to the ticket while Romney finally gets a short break to attempt to moderate himself. Instead, Ryan's so nutty that Romney's moderation still ain't anywhere close to the political center.

20 A Mom Anon  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 1:43:29pm

OFFS what the hell? I really wish these noxious little toads had to sit in a room full of rape survivors and say this shit. Seriously,fuck these ass berets with rusty farm implements.

21 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 1:44:27pm

re: #17 Kragar

Up next, Ryan explains how getting shot in the head is a natural death because its God's will and what can be more natural than dying after you get shot in the head.

It was God's will that the police missed that guy the other day so many times in New York City. I somehow don't expect to see that as a defense in a courtroom anytime soon.
/

22 Kragar  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 1:46:00pm

re: #21 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

It was God's will that the police missed that guy the other day so many times in New York City. I somehow don't expect to see that as a defense in a courtroom anytime soon.
/

Those bystanders were all shot by the NYPD because it was God's plan. They should stop whining about it already.

23 andres  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 1:46:12pm

re: #1 HappyWarrior

How is this really any different from Akin said? Sure he didn't suggest that rape was legitimate but he definitely acted like being raped and then getting pregnant was "just a method of conception." Ryan's an as big sexist as Akin is.

And here's proof of Ryan's intellect: he can say the most horrendous things in a way that sound academic.

I usually don't say "Fuck you" to politicians, but I'll make an exception for Ryan.

24 The Left  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 1:46:33pm

re: #20 A Mom Anon

OFFS what the hell? I really wish these noxious little toads had to sit in a room full of rape survivors and say this shit. Seriously,fuck these ass berets with rusty farm implements.

That deserved an upding just for the term "ass berets"-- I'd give you more if I could.

25 blueraven  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 1:48:03pm

re: #16 The Left

Freedom's just another word for already being screwed.

And nothing aint worth nothing but it's free
/

26 erik_t  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 1:48:35pm

re: #19 Kragar

After all the hilarity of the Palin Experience, they honestly did do the exact same fucking thing four years later.

Learning from your mistakes is moving forward based on past knowledge, ergo progressive, ergo bad.

27 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 1:48:46pm

re: #22 Kragar

Those bystanders were all shot by the NYPD because it was God's plan. They should stop whining about it already.

And if you compiled a list of such events, and sent it to Bryan Fisher asking him to indicate which ones are God's Plan and which are Satan's Plan I'm sure the logic in the designations would be quite revealing. Of what it would be revealing of I am not sure I want to know...
/

28 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 1:50:33pm

re: #26 erik_t

After all the hilarity of the Palin Experience, they honestly did do the exact same fucking thing four years later.

Learning from your mistakes is moving forward based on past knowledge, ergo progressive, ergo bad.

But Palin was a woman matched with cranky old guy. So Version II of the strategy is an improvement since it's all about business and the economy.
//

29 Destro  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 1:51:27pm

Come on, America. Seriously? The GOP is at around 50% polling with these guys?

That scares me that near 50% of America is OK backing something as wrong as Ryan's and the GOP's current batshit crazy ideology.

30 Destro  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 1:52:15pm

re: #28 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

But Palin was a woman matched with cranky old guy. So Version II of the strategy is an improvement since it's all about business and the economy.
//

Bush + Quayle?

31 The Left  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 1:53:40pm

re: #29 Destro

Come on, America. Seriously? The GOP is at around 50% polling with these guys?

That scares me that near 50% of America is OK backing something as wrong as Ryan's ideology.

What, so you're not scared looking at the electoral map every four years?

32 The Left  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 1:56:32pm

Pennsylvania GOP Senate Candidate: Getting Pregnant From Rape Is ‘Similar’ To Having A Baby Out Of Wedlock

In the aftermath of Rep. Todd Akin’s (R-MO) offensive and medically inaccurate comments that “legitimate rape” doesn’t often lead to pregnancy, Republicans have been scrambling to distance themselves from Akin. However, in addition to pushing policies that are very much in line with Akin’s anti-choice views, some GOP candidates have similar ignorance about the nature of sexual assault.

Tom Smith, the Republican challenging Sen. Bob Casey’s (D-PA) seat, suggested that having a child out of wedlock was analogous to rape during an interview with a reporter at a press club this afternoon, claiming that it would have a “similar” effect on a father:

MARK SCOLFORO, ASSOCIATED PRESS: How would you tell a daughter or a granddaughter who, God forbid, would be the victim of a rape, to keep the child against her own will? Do you have a way to explain that?
SMITH: I lived something similar to that with my own family. She chose life, and I commend her for that. She knew my views. But, fortunately for me, I didn’t have to.. she chose they way I thought. No don’t get me wrong, it wasn’t rape.
SCOLFORO: Similar how?
SMITH: Uh, having a baby out of wedlock.
SCOLFORO: That’s similar to rape?
SMITH: No, no, no, but… put yourself in a father’s situation, yes. It is similar. But, back to the original, I’m pro-life, period.

TP has the audio.

33 Aye Pod  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 1:59:18pm

re: #5 Charles Johnson

If you really follow the logic of what he's saying, the rapist is doing God's work.

Life is so precious that sometimes God has to use means that some queasy liberal types might find politically incorrect. But who are we to judge Him?

34 Kragar  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 1:59:43pm

re: #32 The Left

What Smith just said was "I heard your daughter was raped. I know what that is like. My daughter is having her boyfriend's baby."

35 Kragar  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:01:08pm

GOP Casino Baron Sheldon Adelson Pledges $500,000 To Buy A Single House Seat

Sheldon Adelson, the multi-billionaire casino mogul who already spent at least $5 million to help keep Republicans in control of the House next year, reportedly pledged $500,000 to just one House candidate, New Jersey Republican candidate Rabbi Shmuley Boteach.

While half-a-million dollars sure sounds like a lot of money, it is chump change to Mr. Adelson. The casino czar’s net worth is just shy of $25 billion, or more than the gross domestic product of nearly two dozen nations put together. Indeed, Adelson is so rich that if he decided to give half a million dollars to every single Republican nominee for every House and Senate seat in the country, and to do so every single election cycle until his vast fortune ran out, he would have enough money to fund the GOP’s election machine for the next 186 years:

36 The Left  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:02:07pm

re: #34 Kragar

What Smith just said was "I heard your daughter was raped. I know what that is like. My daughter is having her boyfriend's baby."

"It's all the same, isn't it? The REAL shame is when your unmarried daughter has a baby!"

37 erik_t  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:02:15pm

re: #35 Kragar

GOP Casino Baron Sheldon Adelson Pledges $500,000 To Buy A Single House Seat

Democracy!

38 Kragar  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:05:09pm

re: #37 erik_t

Democracy!

Great when you can afford it.

39 Kragar  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:07:34pm

German javelin official killed while judging javelin contest

A 74-year-old javelin official was killed in Germany when a javelin hit him. Dieter Strack was officiating a youth meet in Dusseldorf when he was struck in the throat. He was rushed to the hospital but died from the injury.

Strack was described as a popular and experienced official by the groups that sponsored the meet.

The 15-year-old who threw the javelin is receiving psychological counseling. Though police were called to investigate, it will most likely be ruled an accident.

40 Patricia Kayden  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:08:23pm

Well, at least the Republicans are very clear on how they feel about women who have been raped. No one can say that they're surprised if R & R win and ban abortion with absolutely no exceptions. Because being impregnated by a rapist is just another way to get pregnant and the life of the fetus is much more important than the victim's wellbeing.
Great to know.

41 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:11:09pm

Another High Blood Pressure Monday. The 24-hour news cycle doesn't help me much. Just Remember and SHARE! Don't let anyone forget.

How is your day going?

42 erik_t  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:11:47pm

re: #40 Patricia Kayden

But Ryan has low body fat. So he's dreamboaty and all women should vote for him.

43 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:12:29pm

re: #32 The Left

Pennsylvania GOP Senate Candidate: Getting Pregnant From Rape Is ‘Similar’ To Having A Baby Out Of Wedlock

TP has the audio.

Because a women is owned by her father, brother, husband or son. Must be so. What whacko religious interpretation does that sound like? The one our Soldiers are dying for on foreign soil.

45 Sionainn  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:13:59pm

re: #42 erik_t

But Ryan has low body fat. So he's dreamboaty and all women should vote for him.

Don't make me puke.

46 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:14:01pm

re: #44 The Left

Rush Limbaugh Suggests Obama Manipulated Hurricane Predictions To Get GOP To Cancel Convention

Hilarious!

I saw that earlier and refused to click. I'm *spitting* mad already.

47 The Left  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:15:19pm

re: #46 ggt

I saw that earlier and refused to click. I'm *spitting* mad already.

It's so desperate and sad that it becomes funny, really.

Worth clicking, it's Kragar's page.

48 Kragar  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:17:11pm

Video: 'Historian' David Barton Claims the Seventh Amendment Bans Abortion

Speaking, last night, at the Prayer Rally for America’s Future in Tampa’s River Church, self-proclaimed historian David Barton claimed that the Seventh Amendment bans abortion, reports RightWingWatch.org.

In the Constitution, the Seventh Amendment reads: "In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury shall be otherwise re–examined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law."

Barton claimed that everyone who is "conceived" has God-given inalienable rights and that the "Founding Fathers recognized abortion as a crime way back in the beginning, that’s why in the Seventh Amendment of the Constitution, part of the common law, you’re not allowed to do abortions because God gives life, not humans, humans can’t take life that God gives so it’s real simple stuff."

It says right there in the Constitution, right there in black and white:

In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.

See, plain as..

Wait a second...

49 Bulworth  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:17:16pm

Well, this is actually the consistent position of the anti-abortion argument. To contend that abortion is murder doesn't lend itself to nuances or varieties of experience. It's outrageous of course. That's what happens when a theology of absolutes meets real people in actual circumstances. But the anti-abortionists don't care much for humanity outside of the womb.

50 Hal_10000  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:17:50pm
If you really follow the logic of what he's saying, the rapist is doing God's work.

Baloney. What the man said is dumb enough, but we don't need to put words in his mouth.

This is perfect example of the abortion sides talking past each other. What Ryan is saying is that, if you believe a fetus has a right to life, it has that right. It doesn't lose that right because it was conceived in rape. Indeed, the rape issue has long been a problem for the pro-life position (and is a key reason why I'm pro-choice). It's always been difficult for them to make the argument that a fetus has a right to live unless its father was a rapist. It just seem they are no wrapping their mind around that dilemma the illogical way.

In fact, there are number of countries -- Ireland, most of the Middle East, southeast Asia, Peru, etc. -- that do not make a rape exemption (and that list probably tells you all you need to know about the worldview associated with it).

Ryan was not saying rape "is just a method of conception". He was saying the method of conception does not affect the right of the fetus. Those are very different concepts.

51 Lidane  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:17:51pm
52 Bulworth  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:18:51pm

re: #48 Kragar
Well if Barton claims that's what the 7th Amendment means then that's what it means. He is in touch with the thoughts and aspirations of our Founders in a way that none of us regular mortals can be. //

53 Mattand  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:19:42pm

re: #29 Destro

Come on, America. Seriously? The GOP is at around 50% polling with these guys?

That scares me that near 50% of America is OK backing something as wrong as Ryan's and the GOP's current batshit crazy ideology.

This is why I was complaining a few threads back about people buying into the idea "moderate" religious voters. With numbers like that, the whole concept is a fucking joke.

If they are out there, at best there's a one-to-one ratio between them and the American Taliban wannabes. Common sense is the fanatics either outnumber the moderates, or the fanatics organize the vote better.

54 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:20:17pm

I should like to hear him say this after HE has been raped.

55 Someone Please Beam Me Up!  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:21:28pm

re: #49 Bulworth

Well, this is actually the consistent position of the anti-abortion argument. To contend that abortion is murder doesn't lend itself to nuances or varieties of experience. It's outrageous of course. That's what happens when a theology of absolutes meets real people in actual circumstances. But the anti-abortionists don't care much for female humanity outside of the womb.

FTFY

56 Mattand  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:21:56pm

re: #50 Hal_10000

Really, Hal? You really want to go down this path?

57 Bulworth  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:22:23pm

But none of this will stop the RNC from proclaiming their unadulterated opposition to Big Government.

58 Aye Pod  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:24:25pm

"And now I know how Joan of Arc felt....

as the flames rose to her roman nose and her walkman started to melt...."

Youtube Video
59 Lidane  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:24:32pm

re: #50 Hal_10000

Ryan was not saying rape "is just a method of conception". He was saying the method of conception does not affect the right of the fetus. Those are very different concepts.

Except they're not. You're ignoring the rights of the woman whose body is involved. If the method of conception doesn't affect the rights of the fetus and it has a right to life regardless, then that means that the fetus trumps the woman carrying it every single time.

To me, that's an inhuman point of view. It reduces a woman to nothing more than an incubator for a fetus that has completely overtaken her individual liberty, her free will, and her agency and autonomy. It's why the hardcore "pro-life" point of view is untenable. When you believe that the rights of the fetus trump everything else then you're willing to excuse all sorts of horrific things like rape and incest and coercion in order to remain true to your ideology.

60 Hal_10000  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:24:41pm

re: #56 Mattand

No. As I said, I disagree with him. But let's not distort what the man said.

This issue would be a little easier if the GOP dropped their anti-scientific opposition to the morning-after pill. It's not an abortificant and it would help massively cut the incidence of rape pregnancy. In fact, it would cut the rate of abortion, full stop.

61 Kragar  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:25:46pm

re: #54 Dancing along the light of day

I should like to hear him say this after HE has been raped.

If men could get pregnant, contraceptives would be sold like chewing gum.

62 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:25:50pm

re: #50 Hal_10000

Well, yeah, but that does mean that rape is just another method of conception, as far as abortion is concerned.

And if you believe in a determinist God, and that we shouldn't abort children because God caused them to be born, then yes, Ryan does believe rapists are doing god's work. This is an essential problem of those who believe in a determinist God.

63 Hal_10000  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:26:11pm
Except they're not. You're ignoring the rights of the woman whose body is involved. If the method of conception doesn't affect the rights of the fetus and it has a right to life regardless, then that means that the fetus trumps the woman carrying it every single time.

Yes. That's the pro-life POV. And why I am not pro-life. But the discussion here has twisted Ryan's words from being radically pro-life to being almost pro-rape.

64 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:26:26pm

re: #61 Kragar

If men could get pregnant, contraceptives would be sold like chewing gum.

If men could get pregnant, women would be the dominant sex.

65 makeitstop  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:26:26pm

re: #50 Hal_10000

Ryan was not saying rape "is just a method of conception". He was saying the method of conception does not affect the right of the fetus. Those are very different concepts.

I see no difference. He cited no difference between rape and other 'methods of conception.'

No difference at all.

66 jaunte  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:26:33pm
It reduces a woman to nothing more than an incubator for a fetus that has completely overtaken her individual liberty, her free will, and her agency and autonomy.

Image: WeBuiltThis.jpg

67 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:26:41pm

Oh, you see, the minute "I" conceive, I cease to be an "I". My personhood is transferred to the zygote. It doesn't get my SS#, or my bills, just my rights.

How convenient is that?

/gah*spit*

68 Lidane  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:27:21pm

re: #61 Kragar

If men could get pregnant, contraceptives would be sold like chewing gum.

If men could get pregnant, the morning after pill would be freely available in every bar in the country, right next to the bowl of beer nuts.

69 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:27:28pm

re: #64 Obdicut

If men could get pregnant, women would be the dominant sex.

I really hate this argument even tho it seems appropriate and have used it myself so often. In reality, if men could get pregnant, they would be women. --no?

70 gwangung  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:27:38pm

re: #63 Hal_10000

Yes. That's the pro-life POV. And why I am not pro-life. But the discussion here has twisted Ryan's words from being radically pro-life to being almost pro-rape.

Really? I see it as being massively indifferent to rape.

71 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:27:40pm

re: #50 Hal_10000

Baloney. What the man said is dumb enough, but we don't need to put words in his mouth.

This is perfect example of the abortion sides talking past each other. What Ryan is saying is that, if you believe a fetus has a right to life, it has that right. It doesn't lose that right because it was conceived in rape. Indeed, the rape issue has long been a problem for the pro-life position (and is a key reason why I'm pro-choice). It's always been difficult for them to make the argument that a fetus has a right to live unless its father was a rapist. It just seem they are no wrapping their mind around that dilemma the illogical way.

In fact, there are number of countries -- Ireland, most of the Middle East, southeast Asia, Peru, etc. -- that do not make a rape exemption (and that list probably tells you all you need to know about the worldview associated with it).

Ryan was not saying rape "is just a method of conception". He was saying the method of conception does not affect the right of the fetus. Those are very different concepts.

The abortion sides will always talk past each other as long as one side believes a zygote has more right to life than the woman who carries it. Nobody who believes the woman has the superior rights would consider saying the method of conception changes nothing. To talk about the rights of the fetus regardless of the method of conception is to argue that the rights of the mother are not one of God's concerns. That's how it remains consistent.

72 Mattand  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:27:53pm

re: #60 Hal_10000

Read Lidane's post above yours at 59.

Ryan is essentially saying that if a pregnancy results from a rape, tough shit for the woman. The embryo/zygote/fetus's rights trump hers. There's no other way to interpret this.

73 The Left  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:28:27pm

re: #64 Obdicut

If men could get pregnant, women would be the dominant sex.

If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament.

-- Rose Kennedy

74 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:28:43pm

You see these whacko's don't see rape as violence against a person. They see it as usurpation of their rights over said person.

Which, of course, is a big deal in their mind.

75 makeitstop  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:29:03pm

re: #59 Lidane

When you believe that the rights of the fetus trump everything else then you're willing to excuse all sorts of horrific things like rape and incest and coercion in order to remain true to your ideology.

And, perhaps worst of all, even the life of the mother.

This apparently doesn't even faze Paul Ryan.

76 Lidane  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:29:16pm

re: #70 gwangung

Really? I see it as being massively indifferent to rape.

That's exactly what it is. It's indifference to rape, or to incest, or coercion, or any other number of horrific things because you believe that the rights of the fetus trump everything else, including the free will and agency of the woman carrying that fetus.

77 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:29:34pm

re: #72 Mattand

Read Lidane's post above yours at 59.

Ryan is essentially saying that if a pregnancy results from a rape, tough shit for the woman. The embryo/zygote/fetus's rights trump hers. There's no other way to interpret this.

Hal's statement was at the core a completely okay one. He's pointing out that if you think that the fetus has a right to live, then that's that. You shouldn't make exceptions for rape, since it's not the fetuses 'fault' that the woman was raped. It's a problem in the pro-life position. There's no logical reason why you should be opposed to abortion under ordinary circumstances but allow it in those.

78 andres  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:30:05pm

re: #62 Obdicut

Well, yeah, but that does mean that rape is just another method of conception, as far as abortion is concerned.

And if you believe in a determinist God, and that we shouldn't abort children because God caused them to be born, then yes, Ryan does believe rapists are doing god's work. This is an essential problem of those who believe in a determinist God.

I was going to reply, but you did a much better at explaining my PoV.

79 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:30:22pm

re: #76 Lidane

That's exactly what it is. It's indifference to rape, or to incest, or coercion, or any other number of horrific things because you believe that the rights of the fetus man trump everything else, including the free will and agency of the woman carrying that fetus.

sorry, FTFY. I don't for one minute think these men think differently. It's ALL ABOUT THEM. Their ownership of women and children.

80 sagehen  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:31:04pm

re: #50 Hal_10000

Baloney. What the man said is dumb enough, but we don't need to put words in his mouth.

This is perfect example of the abortion sides talking past each other. What Ryan is saying is that, if you believe a fetus has a right to life, it has that right. It doesn't lose that right because it was conceived in rape. Indeed, the rape issue has long been a problem for the pro-life position (and is a key reason why I'm pro-choice). It's always been difficult for them to make the argument that a fetus has a right to live unless its father was a rapist. It just seem they are no wrapping their mind around that dilemma the illogical way.

In fact, there are number of countries -- Ireland, most of the Middle East, southeast Asia, Peru, etc. -- that do not make a rape exemption (and that list probably tells you all you need to know about the worldview associated with it).

Ryan was not saying rape "is just a method of conception". He was saying the method of conception does not affect the right of the fetus. Those are very different concepts.

In Ireland, where abortions are "not allowed", the national health service gives women plane tickets to England and vouchers for NHS care.

So, y'know, as long as it doesn't take place on Irish soil I guess.

The thing is... I see any unwanted pregnancy (even from consensual sex with a leaky condom) as not so very different from rape.

"So sad about your body being used in ways you don't want, but somebody else is more important than your bodily autonomy. Your bloodstream, your kidneys, your thyroid, never mind the strains you're subjected to, somebody else's needs matter more than yours. Your center of gravity is thrown off for months on end, your body is altered so profoundly, so permanently, that if an anthropologist finds your skeleton a thousand years from now he'll be able to tell just from looking at your bones whether or not you've given birth...

"But none of that matters because we value somebody else more than you. Somebody else has more rights to your body than you do."

My objection to Roe v Wade is that I don't think abortion is a privacy question so much as an involuntary servitude question. When women go into labor, we didn't call it that out of a sense of irony.

81 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:31:28pm

re: #78 andres

I was going to reply, but you did a much better at explaining my PoV.

It's really just the problem of evil in a universe with a supposedly benevolent god. I mean, the anti-abortion activists don't deal with the fact that God is the biggest abortionist of all, given the rate that zygotes fail to attach or self-abort.

82 blueraven  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:31:38pm

re: #60 Hal_10000

No. As I said, I disagree with him. But let's not distort what the man said.

This issue would be a little easier if the GOP dropped their anti-scientific opposition to the morning-after pill. It's not an abortificant and it would help massively cut the incidence of rape pregnancy. In fact, it would cut the rate of abortion, full stop.

Why do you think they wont do this?

Because they dont want to take abortion off the table as a social wedge issue.
They cater to the extremes, who would just as soon outlaw any kind of birth control other than abstinence or the rhythm method.
They are against condoms, against sex education, against birth control pills.

Therefore any criticism of their position is fair game.

83 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:31:54pm

Feline Overlords in Training.

Your daily (much needed) cuteness break.

84 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:32:30pm

re: #56 Mattand

Really, Hal? You really want to go down this path?

It never ends well.

85 erik_t  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:32:49pm

re: #81 Obdicut

It's really just the problem of evil in a universe with a supposedly benevolent god. I mean, the anti-abortion activists don't deal with the fact that God is the biggest abortionist of all, given the rate that fertilized embryos fail to attach or self-abort.

Thinking too much about this problem is generally not conducive to the continued belief in an omnipotent and benevolent creator.

It almost makes you wonder why so many religious authorities seem to discourage rational thought...

86 Kragar  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:32:57pm

re: #83 ggt

Feline Overlords in Training.

Your daily (much needed) cuteness break.

Dog vs Cabbage

Youtube Video
87 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:33:29pm

re: #80 sagehen

My objection to Roe v Wade is that I don't think abortion is a privacy question so much as an involuntary servitude question. When women go into labor, we didn't call it that out of a sense of irony.

Yes

88 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:34:43pm

re: #86 Kragar

Dog vs Cabbage

[Embedded content]

DOG WINS!!!!

89 The Left  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:35:19pm

re: #80 sagehen

In Ireland, where abortions are "not allowed", the national health service gives women plane tickets to England and vouchers for NHS care.

So, y'know, as long as it doesn't take place on Irish soil I guess.

The thing is... I see any unwanted pregnancy (even from consensual sex with a leaky condom) as not so very different from rape.

"So sad about your body being used in ways you don't want, but somebody else is more important than your bodily autonomy. Your bloodstream, your kidneys, your thyroid, never mind the strains you're subjected to, somebody else's needs matter more than yours. Your center of gravity is thrown off for months on end, your body is altered so profoundly, so permanently, that if an anthropologist finds your skeleton a thousand years from now he'll be able to tell just from looking at your bones whether or not you've given birth...

"But none of that matters because we value somebody else more than you. Somebody else has more rights to your body than you do."

My objection to Roe v Wade is that I don't think abortion is a privacy question so much as an involuntary servitude question. When women go into labor, we didn't call it that out of a sense of irony.

The Left applauds you!

90 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:35:41pm

re: #80 sagehen

The thing is... I see any unwanted pregnancy (even from consensual sex with a leaky condom) as not so very different from rape.

The anti-choice position is that every act of consensual sex is consent to carry a baby to term. So many of their stupid ideas are based on this ridiculous notion. Homophobia, for one.

91 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:36:03pm

re: #61 Kragar

If men could get pregnant, contraceptives would be sold like chewing gum.

VIAGRA

92 erik_t  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:36:58pm

re: #90 wrenchwench

The anti-choice position is that every act of consensual sex is consent to carry a baby to term. So many of their stupid ideas are based on this ridiculous notion. Homophobia, for one.

Remove consensual, because we know that's not the case, and remove consent, as that implies that a choice can be made.

93 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:37:02pm

Abstinence Only Has a High Failure Rate.

94 Kragar  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:37:08pm

re: #88 ggt

DOG WINS!!!!

DOG'S WILL!

95 Charles Johnson  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:37:23pm

If a woman is raped, becomes pregnant, and then makes her own decision to continue the pregnancy, that's her absolute right to do. Obviously, some women have done this.

But the men pushing these restrictions should never be allowed to force that decision on women. Frankly, I believe this is an inhuman, evil point of view, and it's the very reason for the concept of separation of church and state -- because religious fanatics can't be trusted with power.

96 The Left  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:37:25pm

re: #90 wrenchwench

The anti-choice position is that every act of consensual sex is consent to carry a baby to term. So many of their stupid ideas are based on this ridiculous notion. Homophobia, for one.

Exactly. If sex doesn't carry with it the risk of impregnation and also death for the female partner they're not interested.

97 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:37:51pm

re: #90 wrenchwench

The anti-choice position is that every act of consensual sex is consent to carry a baby to term. So many of their stupid ideas are based on this ridiculous notion. Homophobia, for one.

what if science got us to the point in which pre-natal testing could show which fetuses were LGBT. Do you think they would be in favor of abortion then?

98 Interesting Times  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:38:18pm

re: #77 Obdicut

It's a problem in the pro-life position. There's no logical reason why you should be opposed to abortion under ordinary circumstances but allow it in those.

Remember this weapons-grade dumbfuckery?

Consensual sex, is by definition, consenting to carry a child to term. Even if you believe that sex is just about objectifying ones partner for the sake of pleasure, it is not possible to get around the implicit consent due to the nature of sex as that activity which allows for the creation of a new human life.

It could, conceivably (no pun intended), be used to justify abortion exceptions for non-consensual sex.

99 The Left  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:39:16pm

re: #97 ggt

what if science got us to the point in which pre-natal testing could show which fetuses were LGBT. Do you think they would be in favor of abortion then?

Of course they would be, but they'd choose to call those abortions something else (sex selective termination). And those are the only abortions they'd approve of.

100 Kragar  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:40:11pm

re: #99 The Left

Of course they would be, but they'd choose to call those abortions something else (sex selective termination). And those are the only abortions they'd approve of.

I'm sure they could think up some more undesirables.

101 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:40:23pm

re: #98 Interesting Times

Even if you believe that sex is just about objectifying ones partner for the sake of pleasure,

WTF does this mean. My partner and I are objectifying each other unless we plan to conceive?

Is there something wrong with consensual objectification? WTF--I can't even wrap my head around this . . .

102 Mattand  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:40:38pm

re: #77 Obdicut

Hal's statement was at the core a completely okay one. He's pointing out that if you think that the fetus has a right to live, then that's that. You shouldn't make exceptions for rape, since it's not the fetuses 'fault' that the woman was raped. It's a problem in the pro-life position. There's no logical reason why you should be opposed to abortion under ordinary circumstances but allow it in those.

I'm still having an issue with "he's not saying rape 'is just a method of conception'. He was saying the method of conception does not affect the right of the fetus."

That's not making any sense to me because the Ryan position is that the pregnant woman has no right to an abortion. Ever. In any case, including rape.

With that mindset, IMO, he does consider rape another form of conception.

103 erik_t  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:40:48pm

re: #98 Interesting Times

Remember this weapons-grade dumbfuckery?

I went to downding and saw I already had. It gave me a warm feeling inside.

104 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:41:52pm

re: #103 erik_t

I went to downding and saw I already had. It gave me a warm feeling inside.

Me too!

105 engineer cat  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:42:49pm

re: #44 The Left

Rush Limbaugh Suggests Obama Manipulated Hurricane Predictions To Get GOP To Cancel Convention

Hilarious!

it could be that obama has manipulated the hurricane to threaten n.o. enuf this week to distract the focus of viewers from the hot air front in tampa

106 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:43:20pm

Ok, I think I have it. If you use contraception is it the same as objectifying your sex partner.

So if a rapist doesn't use a condom, it is consensual sex?

Do I have that correct?

107 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:43:54pm

re: #105 engineer cat

it could be that obama has manipulated the hurricane to threaten n.o. enuf this week to distract the focus of viewers from the hot air front in tampa

Like in Michael Crichton's last book.

Yeah, they drinkin' the koolaid now . . .

108 Bulworth  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:44:32pm

Meanwhile, a "revolt over rules" brewing at the RNC:

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

Pass the popcorn

109 engineer cat  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:44:41pm

abstinence is interfering with dog's will that you have sex

110 darthstar  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:45:50pm

Method of conception...fuck you, Paul Ryan, and the robot you're campaigning with.

111 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:45:51pm

re: #106 ggt

Ok, I think I have it. If you use contraception is it the same as objectifying your sex partner.

So if a rapist doesn't use a condom, it is consensual sex?

Do I have that correct?

Works so nicely with the superstition that if a women get's pregnant from a rape it wasn't really a rape . . .

112 The Left  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:45:58pm

re: #106 ggt

Ok, I think I have it. If you use contraception is it the same as objectifying your sex partner.

So if a rapist doesn't use a condom, it is consensual sex?

Do I have that correct?

If you have sex using any form of contraception, you are "öbjectifying" your partner because you're engaging in the act purely for pleasure.

This really is their thinking.

113 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:46:36pm

re: #102 Mattand

With that mindset, IMO, he does consider rape another form of conception.

In so far as it affects the abortion debate, yes. But he could also consider rape a terrible offense requiring the death penalty or something, so the 'just' could be interpreted as problematic.

Anyway, my point was that Hal was pointing out a real problem in the anti-abortion movement; there's no logical reason, if you're anti-abortion on supernatural grounds, to have any occasions where you allow abortion.

114 erik_t  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:47:24pm

re: #110 darthstar

Method of conception...fuck you, Paul Ryan, and the robot you're campaigning with.

Mitt Romney is the new positronic Sorting Hat.

115 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:47:37pm

re: #91 Dancing along the light of day

VIAGRA

Yep, goes against gods will that you not get a boner anymore.

116 Kragar  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:47:50pm

re: #112 The Left

If you have sex using any form of contraception, you are "öbjectifying" your partner because you're engaging in the act purely for pleasure.

This really is their thinking.

So the lesson here is to stick with anal. No need for contraception and no babies, plus virginity stay intact. Its not even really sex when you think about it.
/

117 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:47:57pm

re: #112 The Left

If you have sex using any form of contraception, you are "öbjectifying" your partner because you're engaging in the act purely for pleasure.

This really is their thinking.

And this is wrong? I'd better tell my husband, I can't have sex with him anymore because I've been objectifing him and that goes against dog's will. . . .

118 erik_t  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:48:26pm

re: #113 Obdicut

Anyway, my point was that Hal was pointing out a real problem in the anti-abortion movement; there's no logical reason, if you're anti-abortion on supernatural grounds, to have any occasions where you allow abortion.

Arguably an exception exists even in that la-la land: if it were a save-the-mother-or-lose-them-both abortion.

119 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:48:35pm

re: #108 Bulworth

Meanwhile, a "revolt over rules" brewing at the RNC:

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

Pass the popcorn

It's hilarious if you read between the lines. The leadership knows that the Paulians managed to get a bunch of their own elected as delegates, which could cause a very messy scene on the convention floor. Solution? Let Romney throw out all the Paulian delegates and appoint handpicked yes-men.

120 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:48:36pm

re: #102 Mattand

I'm still having an issue with "he's not saying rape 'is just a method of conception'. He was saying the method of conception does not affect the right of the fetus."

That's not making any sense to me because if the Ryan position is that the pregnant woman has no right to an abortion. Ever. In any case, including rape.

With that mindset, IMO, he does consider rape another form of conception.

Strictly speaking it is. Maybe that's dickish to say but the sooner people come to accept that we can move on to the fact that Ryan and the pro-lifers are engaging in a bait and switch argument, and you're falling for it. They want to talk about when "life" begins because it gets people off of the real crux of the issue, when personhood begins. Ryan is replacing an inherently complex and nuanced discussion about what constitutes sentience with his own simplistic argument over "life" precisely because self awareness isn't concomitant with conception.

121 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:50:03pm

re: #42 erik_t

But Ryan has low body fat. So he's dreamboaty and all women should vote for him.

His body fat is low only if you don't include the fat in his head.

122 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:50:16pm

Oh, I like this one!

Pro-Birth!

123 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:50:49pm

re: #121 Romantic Heretic

His body fat is low only if you don't include the fat in his head.

Does't say anything about muscle tone. I think he looks like a zombie.

124 The Left  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:51:00pm

re: #120 goddamnedfrank

Strictly speaking it is. Maybe that's dickish to say but the sooner people come to accept that we can move on to the fact that Ryan and the pro-lifers are engaging in a bait and switch argument, and you're falling for it. They want to talk about when "life" begins because it gets people off of the real crux of the issue, when personhood begins. Ryan is replacing an inherently complex and nuanced discussion about what constitutes sentience with his own simplistic argument over "life" precisely because self awareness isn't concomitant with conception.

That was really well put!

125 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:51:27pm

re: #118 erik_t

Arguably an exception exists even in that la-la land: if it were a save-the-mother-or-lose-them-both abortion.

Well, except God can always just throw a miracle down. Anyway, yeah, there may be a few tiny corner cases, but in general, anti-abortionists who believe that zygotes are supernatural creatures with souls attached to them shouldn't allow abortions under any circumstances where a viable birth can occur.

126 Mattand  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:53:53pm

re: #120 goddamnedfrank

Strictly speaking it is. Maybe that's dickish to say but the sooner people come to accept that we can move on to the fact that Ryan and the pro-lifers are engaging in a bait and switch argument, and you're falling for it. They want to talk about when "life" begins because it gets people off of the real crux of the issue, when personhood begins. Ryan is replacing an inherently complex and nuanced discussion about what constitutes sentience with his own simplistic argument over "life" precisely because self awareness isn't concomitant with conception.

I'm not sure what I'm falling for. Ryan and the other pro lifers want to ban abortion because their religions tell them that a fertilized egg is a human being and that a woman is simply an ambulatory incubator.

127 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:54:21pm

re: #120 goddamnedfrank

Strictly speaking it is. Maybe that's dickish to say but the sooner people come to accept that we can move on to the fact that Ryan and the pro-lifers are engaging in a bait and switch argument, and you're falling for it. They want to talk about when "life" begins because it gets people off of the real crux of the issue, when personhood begins. Ryan is replacing an inherently complex and nuanced discussion about what constitutes sentience with his own simplistic argument over "life" precisely because self awareness isn't concomitant with conception.

I generally like to argue on the issue of "sentience" rather than "life." A single-celled bacteria is "life," there are several strains that are necessary for the proper functioning of our bodies. If one declares that "life" is too precious to end, then one should abstain from all forms of antibiotics, else they are ending "life."

128 erik_t  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:54:52pm

re: #125 Obdicut

Well, except God can always just throw a miracle down.

Capital-h He is curiously sparing with those.

129 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:54:57pm

I should add that as well as believing that God attaches a soul and/or consciousness of some sort to the zygote before the brain forms, you need to believe that God has no system of dealing with these abortions, that he doesn't just take the soul to heaven, or recycle it into another person, or what have you, that he's completely stymied by this. A strangely impotent god.

130 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:55:14pm

re: #127 Targetpractice

Cancer is life. Very much so.

So yeah.

131 Kragar  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:55:34pm

A Zygote has mystical powers imbued by god, while an infant has committed original sin and must therefore atone for its misdeeds in the eyes of our Lord and Savior.

Its that silly getting born thing which keeps screwing things up.

132 darthstar  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:56:31pm

re: #116 Kragar

So the lesson here is to stick with anal. No need for contraception and no babies, plus virginity stay intact. Its not even really sex when you think about it.
/

Remind me not to change my car's oil around you.

133 Mattand  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:56:31pm

re: #131 Kragar

A Zygote has mystical powers imbued by god, while an infant has committed original sin and must therefore atone for its misdeeds in the eyes of our Lord and Savior.

Its that silly getting born thing which keeps screwing things up.

Heh. Never thought about that one. Do the egg and the sperm also carry original sin?

134 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:56:43pm

re: #127 Targetpractice

I generally like to argue on the issue of "sentience" rather than "life." A single-celled bacteria is "life," there are several strains that are necessary for the proper functioning of our bodies. If one declares that "life" is too precious to end, then one should abstain from all forms of antibiotics, else they are ending "life."

True, if one follows their stance to the logical conclusion we would all be buddist monks. Ahisma --non-killing --in hindu --no?

135 Kragar  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:58:14pm

re: #132 darthstar

Remind me not to change my car's oil around you.

Youtube Video
136 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:58:45pm

re: #133 Mattand

Heh. Never thought about that one. Do the egg and the sperm also carry original sin?

Introducing Mr. Sperm to Ms. Egg is the original sin.

137 Sophia77  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:59:42pm

Also, the personhood thing, based on the 14th amendment.

Oh for heaven's sake.

I think I am going to scream.

138 erik_t  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:00:15pm

re: #136 wrenchwench

Introducing Mr. Sperm to Ms. Egg is the original sin.

Except it's also a Blessing.

I just don't fucking understand some people. On the plus side, neither do they.

139 Kragar  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:02:09pm

I misunderstood original sin for a while, which led to a series of unfortunate yet humorous incidents.

140 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:02:55pm

re: #139 Kragar

I misunderstood original sin for a while, which led to a series of unfortunate yet humorous incidents.

Yeah, me too. Hell is going to be fun place. . . .

141 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:03:19pm

re: #138 erik_t

Except it's also a Blessing.

I just don't fucking understand some people. On the plus side, neither do they.

It's a gift and a curse. Depending if you are a man or a woman.

142 Kragar  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:04:21pm

re: #140 ggt

Yeah, me too. Hell is going to be fun place. . . .

"Bless me Father, for I have sinned. This time I took 3 cats, a can of silly string, an intricate system of pulleys and visited the girl's locker room..."

143 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:04:23pm

I have dog training in an hour, so I'm going.

Have a great evening all!

144 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:05:22pm

re: #142 Kragar

"Bless me Father, for I have sinned. This time I took 3 cats, a can of silly string, an intricate system of pulleys and visited the girl's locker room..."

"You better get a shovel, son, cause you're in deep."

145 Kragar  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:07:22pm

If I've learned anything, its that everything is always better when there is an intricate series of pulleys involved.

146 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:08:48pm

re: #145 Kragar

If I've learned anything, its that everything is always better when there is an intricate series of pulleys involved.

Funny, I learned that everything is always better when you have a willing patsy to take the fall for ya.

Or maybe I was just going 'bout it wrong...

//

147 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:08:54pm

re: #126 Mattand

I'm not sure what I'm falling for. Ryan and the other pro lifers want to ban abortion because their religions tell them that a fertilized egg is a human being and that a woman is simply an ambulatory incubator.

Exactly, and as long as you humor the terms of their argument as relevant to the discussion you're allowing them to define the terms of the debate. "Life" is a deliberate dodge, a smokescreen designed to obfuscate any discussion of sentience, self-awareness, the very criteria we use at the other end of the spectrum to determine when personhood ends a la Terri Schiavo.

When they deny any exception for rape or incest the pro-lifers are just being consistent within their own ideological framework. It's time for us to be as well. When we get enraged and argue over the heartlessness of not allowing exceptions for rape we lose sight of whole battlefield. When Ryan describes Romney's stance as 'a good step in the right direction' what he means is that it's the thin edge of the wedge. He's saying that all the time and effort spent fighting his no exceptions stance had the effect of validating this insidious "compromise." He's gloating over the fact that his opposition lost sight of their own argument and instead argued the issue in his terms simply because those terms were so outrageous.

148 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:09:18pm

re: #145 Kragar

If I've learned anything, its that everything is always better when there is an intricate series of pulleys MAGNETS involved.

149 darthstar  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:10:42pm
150 erik_t  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:11:29pm

Romneybot is clear as mud.

My position has been clear throughout this campaign. I'm in favor of abortion being legal in the case of rape and incest and the health and life of the mother. But recognize, this is the decision that will be made by the Supreme Court. The Democrats try and make this a political issue every four years, but this is a matter in the courts. It's been settled for some time in the courts.

THEN WHY DOES YOUR OWN FUCKING PARTY PLATFORM CALL FOR A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT BANNING IT, MITT? WHAT KIND OF FUCKING PARTY LEADER ARE YOU?

151 Kragar  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:11:35pm

re: #146 Targetpractice

Funny, I learned that everything is always better when you have a willing patsy to take the fall for ya.

Or maybe I was just going 'bout it wrong...

//

With the pulleys, you can save your patsies for the really good stuff.

152 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:12:04pm

re: #151 Kragar

With the pulleys, you can save your patsies for the really good stuff.

The judicious use of high explosives?

153 andres  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:12:09pm

re: #150 erik_t

Romneybot is clear as mud.

THEN WHY DOES YOUR OWN FUCKING PARTY PLATFORM CALL FOR A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT BANNING IT, MITT? WHAT KIND OF FUCKING PARTY LEADER ARE YOU?

An Etch-An-Sketch one?

154 Kragar  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:12:20pm

re: #148 Dancing along the light of day

You can't magnetize a rope!

155 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:13:09pm

re: #153 andres

An Etch-An-Sketch one?

White boards erase even faster than Etch-A-Sketches do!

156 Kragar  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:13:10pm

re: #152 Targetpractice

The judicious use of high explosives?

Thats when you need a patsy, to distract folks while you're using the pulleys to get the explosives in position.

157 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:13:14pm

re: #147 goddamnedfrank

Agreed, arguing over a "compromise" signals an agreement that there is some "middle ground" being argued over, rather than a ban in all but deed.

158 Digital Display  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:14:27pm

re: #154 Kragar

You can't magnetize a rope!

Then how do people piss up a rope?

159 darthstar  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:14:56pm

re: #154 Kragar

You can't magnetize a rope!

Yes you can.

MSNBC Video
160 Kragar  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:15:44pm

re: #158 Digital Display

Then how do people piss up a rope?

Capillary action.

161 darthstar  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:15:51pm

re: #158 Digital Display

Then how do people piss up a rope?

Imagine what Mandy's like watching the GOP right now...though I suspect she got a job as Michelle Bachmann's speech writer.

162 CuriousLurker  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:20:53pm

re: #90 wrenchwench

The anti-choice position is that every act of consensual sex is consent to carry a baby to term. So many of their stupid ideas are based on this ridiculous notion. Homophobia, for one.

Where are the rules for the men? Women aren't getting pregnant through immaculate conception. You know what I wanna see? I wanna see them even up the responsibility for safeguarding this precious child's life even more, so how about we come up with some equally draconian rules for men?

Let's exclude men who've raped or committed incest, but force ALL other men who get a woman pregnant to marry her and financially provide for her & the child until the child is 18. Should the child wish to attend college, then the father's responsibility will extend until said offspring has completed his/her course of study and obtained a degree, regardless of how long it takes.

Divorce or separation will be prohibited for the duration. Refusal to marry the woman, dereliction of duty/support, attempts to separate, or getting caught committing adultery will all result in the man landing in jail on felony charges.

163 erik_t  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:22:04pm

re: #162 CuriousLurker

CuriousLurker wants kids to go to college? What a snob!

/

164 engineer cat  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:22:19pm

if the fetus has a soul (not to mention original sin), then it should desire to not take the life of the mother - in the cases where the birth or pregnancy would cause that

165 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:23:22pm

re: #162 CuriousLurker

Hear hear!

DNA testing makes it possible.

166 Digital Display  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:27:01pm

re: #162 CuriousLurker

Divorce or separation will be prohibited for the duration. Refusal to marry the woman, dereliction of duty/support, attempts to separate, or getting caught committing adultery will all result in the man landing in jail on felony charges.

So Open Marriages would be cool?
/

167 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:27:20pm

re: #162 CuriousLurker

Where are the rules for the men? Women aren't getting pregnant through immaculate conception. You know what I wanna see? I wanna see them even up the responsibility for safeguarding this precious child's life even more, so how about we come up with some equally draconian rules for men?

Let's exclude men who've raped or committed incest, but force ALL other men who get a woman pregnant to marry her and financially provide for her & the child until the child is 18. Should the child wish to attend college, then the father's responsibility will extend until said offspring has completed his/her course of study and obtained a degree, regardless of how long it takes.

Divorce or separation will be prohibited for the duration. Refusal to marry the woman, dereliction of duty/support, attempts to separate, or getting caught committing adultery will all result in the man landing in jail on felony charges.

We'd effectively be back in the 1950s, before no-fault divorce became a reality that ended a great deal of loveless marriages and gave women the ability to escape abusive spouses without worrying that the judicial system would take her husband's side.

168 God of Binders with Women  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:27:58pm

re: #150 erik_t

Romneybot is clear as mud.

THEN WHY DOES YOUR OWN FUCKING PARTY PLATFORM CALL FOR A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT BANNING IT, MITT? WHAT KIND OF FUCKING PARTY LEADER ARE YOU?

My position has been clear throughout this campaign. I'm in favor of abortion being legal in the case of rape and incest and the health and life of the mother. But recognize, this is the decision that will be made by the Supreme Court. The Democrats try and make this a political issue every four years, but this is a matter in the courts. It's been settled for some time in the courts.

This is telling. Romeybot let's it slip that Roe v Wade will come up again when (if he wins the election) a liberal justice retires by saying "...will be made by the Supreme Court." Also, the reason the Democrats make it a political issue "every four years" is because every four years the GOP and their 12th Century, throwback platform make it quite obvious the GOP's view on what they think a woman should do with her body. And yes, you are right, Romneybot. It has been settled for some time in the courts, like, forty years ago.

169 CuriousLurker  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:28:40pm

re: #166 Digital Display

So Open Marriages would be cool?
/

Not quite. Sorry! ;)

170 jaunte  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:28:45pm

Walsh won’t apologize for saying ‘radical Islamists’ in U.S. want to kill Americans

Moon Khan, a Republican Party precinct committeeman in DuPage County and member of the York Township board of trustees:

“We want to ask the congressman why he is the only person who sees the ghost of radical Muslims everywhere. Why did not his colleague, Congressman Peter Roskam ... raise such alarm? We did not hear such warnings from U.S. Sen. Mark Kirk, not to mention the Democratic members of Congress. You are running the idea up the flag, and nobody is saluting it.”

“We would also like to know if you found any radical Muslim in this gathering. If yes, please tell us, how did you detect that? Do you have a device like a metal detector that you rotate around and find Muslim radicals?”

171 engineer cat  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:28:51pm

re: #162 CuriousLurker

Where are the rules for the men? Women aren't getting pregnant through immaculate conception. You know what I wanna see? I wanna see them even up the responsibility for safeguarding this precious child's life even more, so how about we come up with some equally draconian rules for men?

Let's exclude men who've raped or committed incest, but force ALL other men who get a woman pregnant to marry her and financially provide for her & the child until the child is 18. Should the child wish to attend college, then the father's responsibility will extend until said offspring has completed his/her course of study and obtained a degree, regardless of how long it takes.

Divorce or separation will be prohibited for the duration. Refusal to marry the woman, dereliction of duty/support, attempts to separate, or getting caught committing adultery will all result in the man landing in jail on felony charges.

if you follow this type of thinking, why, we would be prosecuting and jailing large employers who hire thousands of illegal aliens instead of mostly arresting the undocumented employees

172 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:30:15pm

re: #171 engineer cat

if you follow this type of thinking, why, we would be prosecuting and jailing large employers who hire thousands of illegal aliens instead of mostly arresting the undocumented employees

Punishing the Job Creators? We can't have that!!

173 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:30:15pm

re: #168 Changing Colors, Spinning Yarns

This is telling. Romeybot let's it slip that Roe v Wade will come up again when (if he wins the election) a liberal justice retires by saying "...will be made by the Supreme Court." Also, the reason the Democrats make it a political issue "every four years" is because every four years the GOP and their 12th Century, throwback platform make it quite obvious the GOP's view on what they think a woman should do with her body. And yes, you are right, Romneybot. It has been settled for some time in the courts, like, forty years ago.

It becomes a political issue every 4 years because the 2 years in between is when the social conservatives ply their trade and assume nobody's paying close attention.

174 aagcobb  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:31:02pm

re: #32 The Left

Pennsylvania GOP Senate Candidate: Getting Pregnant From Rape Is ‘Similar’ To Having A Baby Out Of Wedlock

TP has the audio.

That is the patriarchy for you. To the patriarch, his property's consent to being impregnated is irrelevant; all that matters is that his property was impregnated without his consent.

175 CuriousLurker  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:33:04pm

re: #167 Targetpractice

We'd effectively be back in the 1950s, before no-fault divorce became a reality that ended a great deal of loveless marriages and gave women the ability to escape abusive spouses without worrying that the judicial system would take her husband's side.

I realize that, I was just trying to make a point. As things stand, 100% of the burden is on the woman and 0% on men. Not only that, but the GOP would like to destroy whatever safety nets exist that might help women & children. Where does the men's responsibility come in? I haven't heard a peep about that.

176 Kragar  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:36:14pm

Heh.

Image: 8xZ5nD-u6k2sC5KOBBRhNg2.jpg

177 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:36:46pm

re: #162 CuriousLurker

Where are the rules for the men? Women aren't getting pregnant through immaculate conception. You know what I wanna see? I wanna see them even up the responsibility for safeguarding this precious child's life even more, so how about we come up with some equally draconian rules for men?

Let's exclude men who've raped or committed incest, but force ALL other men who get a woman pregnant to marry her and financially provide for her & the child until the child is 18. Should the child wish to attend college, then the father's responsibility will extend until said offspring has completed his/her course of study and obtained a degree, regardless of how long it takes.

Divorce or separation will be prohibited for the duration. Refusal to marry the woman, dereliction of duty/support, attempts to separate, or getting caught committing adultery will all result in the man landing in jail on felony charges.

I thought that right now, except for the getting married part, if you get a woman pregnant, and she carries to term, you are providing child support and college support--if she goes to court, that is. It's not automatic. I knew a woman years ago whose ex-boyfriend strung her along just until he could get out of country to his job in Thailand, where she couldn't sue.

Classy.

178 Mattand  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:37:46pm

re: #147 goddamnedfrank

Exactly, and as long as you humor the terms of their argument as relevant to the discussion you're allowing them to define the terms of the debate. "Life" is a deliberate dodge, a smokescreen designed to obfuscate any discussion of sentience, self-awareness, the very criteria we use at the other end of the spectrum to determine when personhood ends a la Terri Schiavo.

When they deny any exception for rape or incest the pro-lifers are just being consistent within their own ideological framework. It's time for us to be as well. When we get enraged and argue over the heartlessness of not allowing exceptions for rape we lose sight of whole battlefield. When Ryan describes Romney's stance as 'a good step in the right direction' what he means is that it's the thin edge of the wedge. He's saying that all the time and effort spent fighting his no exceptions stance had the effect of validating this insidious "compromise." He's gloating over the fact that his opposition lost sight of their own argument and instead argued the issue in his terms simply because he terms were so outrageous.

Maybe it's because it's the end of the day, but I'm just not understanding this.

I'm against any restriction on abortion. One of my reasons is the arbitrary and throughly made up assertion that sentience/life/the soul somehow begins at contraception. Another is that the idea that your religious beliefs should not prevent a woman from seeking medical care

Therefore I'm a dupe of the religious right?

179 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:39:31pm

re: #158 Digital Display

Then how do people piss up a rope?

You will have to ask "Miss Manners"!
Hello you!

180 engineer cat  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:40:29pm

what happens if a christian scientist wins the nomination of a major party?

181 CuriousLurker  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:41:01pm

re: #177 Mostly sane, most of the time.

I thought that right now, except for the getting married part, if you get a woman pregnant, and she carries to term, you are providing child support and college support--if she goes to court, that is. It's not automatic. I knew a woman years ago whose ex-boyfriend strung her along just until he could get out of country to his job in Thailand, where she couldn't sue.

Classy.

Classy indeed. That's the problem, it's not automatic. Make it so the man's pay is automatically docked, and anyone caught getting paid under the table has additional penalties added (including a penalty for the employer).

182 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:41:03pm

re: #175 CuriousLurker

I realize that, I was just trying to make a point. As things stand, 100% of the burden is on the woman and 0% on men. Not only that, but the GOP would like to destroy whatever safety nets exist that might help women & children. Where does the men's responsibility come in? I haven't heard a peep about that.

That's just it, a shotgun wedding doesn't generally inspire a man to take responsibility. If anything, it just provokes anger and rebellion, anger at the "ball and chain" he's now linked to and rebellion at the families that he feels robbed him of his freedom for their own convenience. It's why no-fault divorce came about, because too many judges were getting uncomfortable with the reality that they were effectively allowing spouses to commit perjury in order to obtain divorces.

183 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:48:21pm

re: #178 Mattand

Maybe it's because it's the end of the day, but I'm just not understanding this.

I'm against any restriction on abortion. One of my reasons is that the arbitrary and throughly made up assertion that sentience/life/the soul somehow begins at contraception. Another is that the idea that your religious beliefs should not prevent a woman from seeking medical care

Therefore I'm a dupe of the religious right?

If you conflate sentience with life and the soul then yes, you are. Try thinking about what distinguishes these terms. I'll start you off with the fact that the first is actually relevant to a discussion of comparative rights, and since it requires a functioning central nervous system it doesn't begin at conception. If you're going to be against any restriction on abortion, a position that goes beyond Roe v. Wade, then you should be able to intelligently state why. That requires a discussion of comparative rights, which necessitates a discussion of when rights attach. As long as you're simplistically tossing in significant terms like sentience / self awareness with nebulous concepts like life and the soul you're allowing your opponents to define the terms of the argument before you've even begun to articulate your position.

184 jaunte  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:48:56pm

Today on Fox News Insider:
R. Lee Ermey is whining about being "fired" by Geico insurance because of his political beliefs.

[Link: www.tmz.com...]

Here's what he said during a 2010 Toys for Tots fundraiser:

"We should all rise up, and we should stop this administration from what they’re doing because they’re destroying this country. They’re driving us into bankruptcy so that they can impose socialism on us, and that’s exactly what they’re doing, and I’m sick and damn tired of it and I know you are too."

185 erik_t  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:49:52pm

re: #184 jaunte

Here's what he said during a 2010 Toys for Tots fundraiser:

Sigh. I wish I hadn't know that.

186 andres  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:50:13pm

re: #155 wrenchwench

White boards erase even faster than Etch-A-Sketches do!

Ya know, that's a much better comparison. And some f***er brought permanent markers instead of the dry erase ones.

187 Mocking Jay  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:51:20pm

re: #184 jaunte

Today on Fox News Insider:
R. Lee Ermey is whining about being "fired" by Geico insurance because of his political beliefs.

[Link: www.tmz.com...]

Here's what he said during a 2010 Toys for Tots fundraiser:

Eh. You should've seen Gilbert Gottfried's tweets after Aflack fired him for the tsunami joke. The man was en fuego, and he still to this day brings it up. But at least he's funny about it.

188 CuriousLurker  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:52:35pm

re: #182 Targetpractice

That's just it, a shotgun wedding doesn't generally inspire a man to take responsibility. If anything, it just provokes anger and rebellion, anger at the "ball and chain" he's not linked to and rebellion at the families that he feels robbed him of his freedom for their own convenience. It's why no-fault divorce came about, because too many judges were getting uncomfortable with the reality that they were effectively allowing spouses to commit perjury in order to obtain divorces.

So then what? Let's not only continue to saddle women with 100% of the burden, let's make sure they have to bring every pregnancy to term, but the men walk away scot free & whistling without a care because, gosh, we wouldn't want them feel put upon? How many deadbeat dads are out there now?

Or maybe all those unwanted children can become wards of the state and you & I can pay for their upbringing with our tax dollars?

189 Mattand  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:56:03pm

re: #183 goddamnedfrank

If you conflate sentience with life and the soul then yes, you are. Try thinking about what distinguishes these terms. I'll start you off with the fact that the first is actually relevant to a discussion of comparative rights, and since it requires a functioning central nervous system it doesn't begin at conception. If you're going to be against any restriction on abortion, a position that goes beyond Roe v. Wade, then you should be able to intelligently state why. That requires a discussion of comparative rights, which necessitates a discussion of when rights attach. As long as you're simplistically tossing in significant terms like sentience / self awareness with nebulous concepts like life and the soul you're allowing your opponents to define the terms of the argument before you've even begun to articulate your position.

I need re-read this later. It's not sinking in. I know it's not personal, but I'm little confused as to how everyone here can be outraged at the shit Ryan and Akin say, but you're telling me I'm wrong to acknowledge it.

Is there some sort of "right" way I should be angry about this stuff? These guys are trying to control women's bodies and take away their rights. I mean, Jesus Christ, what the fuck am I missing here?

190 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:57:20pm

re: #188 CuriousLurker

So then what? Let's not only continue to saddle women with 100% of the burden, let's make sure they have to bring every pregnancy to term, but the men walk away scot free & whistling without a care because, gosh, we wouldn't want them feel put upon? How many deadbeat dads are out there now?

Or maybe all those unwanted children can become wards of the state and you & I can pay for their upbringing with our tax dollars?

Thing is, at best a man's part in the whole thing might break down as between 25-33%. He provides the sperm, but everything after that is out of his hands. He can't carry to term, he can't give birth, he can't breastfeed, and so forth. We evolved as a species where the man is necessary only for the conception, so that he can be free to provide for the woman as she carries, births, and rears the young. Unfortunately, that's created the present situation where a man only needs to be around for the conception phase, because society has stepped into the role of provider when he leaves.

191 engineer cat  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 4:01:13pm

when adam div and eve span, who then was the gentleman?

192 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 4:01:39pm

re: #189 Mattand

I need re-read this later. It's not sinking in. I know it's not personal, but I'm little confused as to how everyone here can be outraged at the shit Ryan and Akin say, but you're telling me I'm wrong to acknowledge it.

You're not wrong to acknowledge it, just wrong in arguing on their terms. Arguing about what should be an "exception" means you've basically admitted that you're agreeable to there being a ban on abortion so long as certain categories of women can still receive it. Once you've agreed to that, then you've given them the power to set the terms of those "exceptions."

194 engineer cat  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 4:02:26pm

re: #190 Targetpractice

Thing is, at best a man's part in the whole thing might break down as between 25-33%. He provides the sperm, but everything after that is out of his hands. He can't carry to term, he can't give birth, he can't breastfeed, and so forth. We evolved as a species where the man is necessary only for the conception, so that he can be free to provide for the woman as she carries, births, and rears the young. Unfortunately, that's created the present situation where a man only needs to be around for the conception phase, because society has stepped into the role of provider when he leaves.

what's all this talk i hear about the meeting of the spam and the egg?

195 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 4:03:30pm

re: #193 Varek Raith

GOP Draft Platform: ‘Homosexual Agenda’ Advanced By Obama Foreign Aid

I don't have nearly enough popcorn for this week.

196 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 4:03:49pm

re: #189 Mattand

I need re-read this later. It's not sinking in. I know it's not personal, but I'm little confused as to how everyone here can be outraged at the shit Ryan and Akin say, but you're telling me I'm wrong to acknowledge it.

You're not wrong to acknowledge it, but it's counter productive to allow the opposition's outrageous rhetoric to define the terms of the debate. The no exceptions social conservatives are the chaff and flare pods of the abortion dogfight, ejecting distractions designed to pull the pro-choice movement off target.

197 Varek Raith  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 4:03:49pm

re: #195 Targetpractice

I don't have nearly enough popcorn for this week.

Iknowrite.

198 darthstar  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 4:05:09pm
199 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 4:06:14pm

re: #196 goddamnedfrank

You're not wrong to acknowledge it, but it's counter productive to allow the opposition's outrageous rhetoric to define the terms of the debate. The no exceptions social conservatives are the chaff and flare pods of the abortion dogfight, ejecting distractions designed to pull the pro-choice movement off target.

Indeed, it's an effort to create a false equivalency, in the pursuit of arguing that "exceptions" are a fictional "middle ground" that both sides might be able to agree upon.

200 darthstar  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 4:06:51pm

re: #195 Targetpractice

I don't have nearly enough popcorn for this week.

That's why god sent Isaac...so we would have something more positive to watch than the GOP convention - yes, the destruction of people's lives along the Gulf Coast is more positive than the RNC.

201 CuriousLurker  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 4:08:04pm

re: #190 Targetpractice

Thing is, at best a man's part in the whole thing might break down as between 25-33%. He provides the sperm, but everything after that is out of his hands. He can't carry to term, he can't give birth, he can't breastfeed, and so forth. We evolved as a species where the man is necessary only for the conception, so that he can be free to provide for the woman as she carries, births, and rears the young. Unfortunately, that's created the present situation where a man only needs to be around for the conception phase, because society has stepped into the role of provider when he leaves.

So what's a possible solution then? Society should get out of the way and then wait to see if men magically return to being responsible for their offspring, disregarding the fact that our society is no longer structured the way it was when we lived as hunter-gatherers or in small agrarian communities?

Besides, if society is going to step out of the way, then it also needs to to pull its collective nose out of women's wombs.

202 engineer cat  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 4:08:27pm

re: #193 Varek Raith

GOP Draft Platform: ‘Homosexual Agenda’ Advanced By Obama Foreign Aid

GOP Complains Media Reporting Contents Of Platform

"this takes the focus away from issues america cares about like obama was born in kenya"

203 andres  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 4:10:02pm

re: #193 Varek Raith

GOP Draft Platform: ‘Homosexual Agenda’ Advanced By Obama Foreign Aid

I forgot, is this Conspiracy Week in Tampa? And they got mixed with the RNC?

Geez...

204 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 4:11:39pm

re: #201 CuriousLurker

So what's a possible solution then? Society should get out of the way and then wait to see if men magically return to being responsible for their offspring, disregarding the fact that our society is no longer structured the way it was when we lived as hunter-gatherers or in small agrarian communities?

Besides, if society is going to step out of the way, then it also needs to to pull its collective nose out of women's wombs.

The solution really is that there's no solution. Society is ever evolving, as we're seeing with falling marriage rates as couples decide to stay together to raise their children without effectively tying themselves together in the bonds of matrimony. The voices of the status quo say this is wrong, because only with married parents can a child gain all the benefits, with the arguments varying from asserting that a child needs to see parents committed to each other to learn responsibility to unmarried parents not providing the "stability" that a child needs in its formative years.

205 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 4:13:05pm

I am actually almost speechless.
Other than WTF! you sick bastard, what is there to say?
Anyone who supports this kind of thinking is in serious need of therapy.

206 jaunte  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 4:13:11pm

Pat Robertson: Raising Retirement Age To 72 Won't "Hurt Anybody Because People Really Like To Work"

Especially if they get paid to run their mouths on television.

207 engineer cat  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 4:16:41pm

re: #206 jaunte

Pat Robertson: Raising Retirement Age To 72 Won't "Hurt Anybody Because People Really Like To Work"

paint my house if you like to work so much

208 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 4:16:42pm

re: #133 Mattand

Heh. Never thought about that one. Do the egg and the sperm also carry original sin?

Maybe they see the egg as the seed of the apple she tempted us with. That knowledge that is so terrifying, that she thrust on Adam while he was just hanging around watching a ballgame or something. So I would say they believe the egg has the big 'O' sin.

209 CuriousLurker  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 4:22:53pm

re: #204 Targetpractice

The solution really is that there's no solution. Society is ever evolving, as we're seeing with falling marriage rates as couples decide to stay together to raise their children without effectively tying themselves together in the bonds of matrimony. The voices of the status quo say this is wrong, because only with married parents can a child gain all the benefits, with the arguments varying from asserting that a child needs to see parents committed to each other to learn responsibility to unmarried parents not providing the "stability" that a child needs in its formative years.

Well, in that case I guess future history books will describe the rise & fall of our society, where we went wrong, and the newer, better model—whatever that might be—that came along to replace ours. That, or we screw things up so badly that we cease to exist as a viable species

210 jaunte  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 4:25:16pm

Police shut down busy Sunset Boulevard in Hollywood on Monday afternoon while officers investigated reports of a man firing a shotgun at construction workers from an apartment complex.
[Link: latimesblogs.latimes.com...]

No injuries reported.

211 Sionainn  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 4:25:45pm

re: #177 Mostly sane, most of the time.

I thought that right now, except for the getting married part, if you get a woman pregnant, and she carries to term, you are providing child support and college support--if she goes to court, that is. It's not automatic. I knew a woman years ago whose ex-boyfriend strung her along just until he could get out of country to his job in Thailand, where she couldn't sue.

Classy.

Why should the woman have to fight to get child support? It should be automatic. Government small enough to fit into a scrotum.

212 jaunte  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 4:30:24pm

Texas delegates planning floor mutiny over RNC rules changes

[Melinda] Fredricks, a Romney supporter, says only 30 people of the more than 300 Texan alternates and delegates support Ron Paul, yet the delegation is "united" in its opposition to the rule.

214 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 4:31:34pm

re: #209 CuriousLurker

Well, in that case I guess future history books will describe the rise & fall of our society, where we went wrong, and the newer, better model—whatever that might be—that came along to replace ours. That, or we screw things up so badly that we cease to exist as a viable species

Well, if you want to get down to it, the idea of marriage and monogamy were social constructs created to ensure two interconnected concepts: lineage and inheritance. So long as we've maintained the idea of owning and passing down property, possessions, and wealth, there's been an insistence on insuring that the children inheriting are the offspring of the original owner. Daughters were used basically as bargaining chips, the means for one family to connect itself to another and thus gain some of the other's pie. It's only recently in human history that the idea of marrying for love and the disdain of arranged marriages has come into vogue.

215 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 4:33:15pm

HAHAHAHA

216 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 4:33:45pm

re: #194 engineer cat

what's all this talk i hear about the meeting of the spam and the egg?

Breakfast

217 CuriousLurker  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 4:34:13pm

re: #214 Targetpractice

Well, if you want to get down to it, the idea of marriage and monogamy were social constructs created to ensure two interconnected concepts: lineage and inheritance. So long as we've maintained the idea of owning and passing down property, possessions, and wealth, there's been an insistence on insuring that the children inheriting are the offspring of the original owner. Daughters were used basically as bargaining chips, the means for one family to connect itself to another and thus gain some of the other's pie. It's only recently in human history that the idea of marrying for love and the disdain of arranged marriages has come into vogue.

Correct. Do you see that as the more successful model?

218 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 4:34:35pm

re: #212 jaunte

Texas delegates planning floor mutiny over RNC rules changes

GOP leadership tries to defuse Paulian rebellion, instead invokes anger amongst its own followers.

I haven't been nearly a good enough boy this year for Christmas to come so early.

220 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 4:37:37pm

re: #217 CuriousLurker

Correct. Do you see that as the more successful model?

What I see is a reality that forced marriages aren't going to work, because the same men who can con a woman into waiting long enough for them to leave the country isn't going to take well to be told he's now married "til death do them part." I think we've all seen at least enough of any one Lifetime movie to know that many men see that as a challenge.

221 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 4:37:47pm

I can't get too excited about the rights of a man to walk away from the child he created.

Be a big boy, or keep it zipped.

Is that too blunt?

222 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 4:38:43pm

re: #220 Targetpractice

What I see is a reality that forced marriages aren't going to work, because the same men who can con a woman into waiting long enough for them to leave the country isn't going to take well to be told he's now married "til death do them part." I think we've all seen at least enough of any one Lifetime movie to know that many men see that as a challenge.

I see the sentiment, but I would be cautious about taking Lifetime movies as a reality template. The news works a little better.

How about' "Until I need your insurance money to buy guns."

223 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 4:40:45pm

re: #222 Mostly sane, most of the time.

I see the sentiment, but I would be cautious about taking Lifetime movies as a reality template. The news works a little better.

How about' "Until I need your insurance money to buy guns."

There's a reason that my old man dubbed Lifetime "The Male-Bashing Channel," but at the same time there's more than enough shows out there broadcasting real stories of men who saw their wife not as a partner in matrimony, but as an obstacle between them and the "sweet life."

224 Mattand  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 4:40:55pm

re: #199 Targetpractice

Indeed, it's an effort to create a false equivalency, in the pursuit of arguing that "exceptions" are a fictional "middle ground" that both sides might be able to agree upon.

Yeah, but:

1) Who on the pro-choice side is arguing "Sure, you can ban abortion if you give us these exceptions"? Maybe I'm that dense, but I kind of missed the part where Planned Parenthood, et. al., were OK with any restrictions.

2) The only party that created exceptions in their abortion policy were the GOP, back when they were only 86% humping Jesus's leg as medical policy. When has the Democratic party had a similar plank?

3) All signs are pointing that the GOP is moving away from exceptions.

225 Sionainn  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 4:43:05pm

re: #219 Mocking Jay

Gabby Douglas to Oprah: I was 'bullied,' called 'slave' during early gymnastics training in Virginia

Jesus...

Ugh, that's terrible.

226 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 4:44:08pm

re: #225 Sionainn

Ugh, that's terrible.

All the more reason to admire her for her perseverance. How much do you want to bet that none of them have two gold medals hanging on their walls?

227 Sionainn  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 4:44:11pm

re: #221 Mostly sane, most of the time.

I can't get too excited about the rights of a man to walk away from the child he created.

Be a big boy, or keep it zipped.

Is that too blunt?

Yep. If a man doesn't want a child, he should make sure he's snipped or be more discerning in his choice of sex partner.

228 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 4:44:45pm

re: #224 Mattand

Yeah, but:

1) Who on the pro-choice side is arguing "Sure, you can ban abortion if you give us these exceptions"? Maybe I'm that dense, but I kind of missed the part where Planned Parenthood, et. al., were OK with any restrictions.

2) The only party that created exceptions in their abortion policy were the GOP, back when they were only 86% humping Jesus's leg as medical policy. When has the Democratic party had a similar plank?

3) All signs are pointing that the GOP is moving away from exceptions.

When you start arguing over what qualifies as rape or whether the only women who can get an abortion are those whose health is at stake, then Ryan and his fellow travelers have already got you arguing on their terms. By arguing that they're okay with "exceptions," they've staked out a false "middle ground" and pushed pro-choicers into arguing over what "exceptions" there should be.

229 Sionainn  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 4:44:54pm

re: #227 Sionainn

Yep. If a man doesn't want a child, he should make sure he's snipped or be more discerning in his choice of sex partner.

...or...wait for it...keep it zipped and don't have sex.

230 God of Binders with Women  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 4:45:29pm

re: #219 Mocking Jay

Gabby Douglas to Oprah: I was 'bullied,' called 'slave' during early gymnastics training in Virginia

Jesus...

But even as Gabby also took home Olympic team gold as part of the USA’s “Fierce Five,” she was still made to feel different by Twitter chatter about her hair style — Internet talk begun by African-Americans.

This is pathetic but unfortunately nothing new. I saw a lot of this crap by blacks in high school directed towards other blacks. Hell, the "black-on-black" stereotypes are prevalent in many of Spike Lee's films, i.e. "She's Gotta Have It," "School Daze," "Do the Right Thing," etc. Lee has always done a great job with his social commentary. I'm just glad that Ms. Douglas never gave up, as she is one little bad ass.

231 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 4:45:34pm

re: #227 Sionainn

Yep. If a man doesn't want a child, he should make sure he's snipped or be more discerning in his choice of sex partner.

Drug store. $6.99.

232 CuriousLurker  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 4:46:34pm

re: #220 Targetpractice

What I see is a reality that forced marriages aren't going to work, because the same men who can con a woman into waiting long enough for them to leave the country isn't going to take well to be told he's now married "til death do them part." I think we've all seen at least enough of any one Lifetime movie to know that many men see that as a challenge.

You're still coming back to that? As I said, I was just making a point, not proposing something I actually thought was a viable countermeasure (with the GOP abortion platform as the context). None of the options are good as long as that piece of idiotic proposed legislation is on the table. It needs to be consigned to the rubbish heap.

233 Sionainn  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 4:47:29pm

re: #231 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Drug store. $6.99.

One of the gripes I've heard from anti-abortion folks is that men don't have a choice in whether a woman has an abortion. My response has always been that if they don't want a woman to have an abortion, they need to be damn sure that the woman they choose to have sex with is on the same page. If she's not, find someone else before they have sex.

234 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 4:47:48pm

re: #232 CuriousLurker

You're still coming back to that? As I said, I was just making a point, not proposing something I actually thought was a viable countermeasure (with the GOP abortion platform as the context). None of the options are good as long as that piece of idiotic proposed legislation is on the table. It needs to be consigned to the rubbish heap.

On that we can agree. It's worse than a joke, it's an insult, not simply to women but to the intelligence of all voters.

235 blueraven  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 4:50:54pm

re: #218 Targetpractice

GOP leadership tries to defuse Paulian rebellion, instead invokes anger amongst its own followers.

I haven't been nearly a good enough boy this year for Christmas to come so early.

wow

recent changes to the national Republican party's rules that would allow the GOP presidential candidate to veto and replace state delegates.

"Our delegates are in shock that such an amendment even would be presented before the Rules Committee much less passed into rule," Fredricks said. "Please know from the Texas delegation standpoint that the only way a floor fight can be avoided is for this rule to be stricken."

While opposition to the rules began with Ron Paul supporters, it has spread to the entire Texas delegation and significant portions of those from South Carolina, Colorado, Virginia and Louisiana too. Mitt Romney's lawyer Ben Ginsberg proposed the rule, but some Romney supporters are staunchly opposed to the changes. Indiana delegate and Romney supporter James Bopp wrote in an email to RNC members that it's "the biggest power grab in the history of the Republican Party." Fredricks, a Romney supporter, says only 30 people of the more than 300 Texan alternates and delegates support Ron Paul, yet the delegation is "united" in its opposition to the rule.

236 Mocking Jay  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 4:52:04pm

re: #229 Sionainn

...or...wait for it...keep it zipped and don't have sex.

This is madness!

237 Sionainn  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 4:53:24pm

re: #236 Mocking Jay

This is madness!

My grandpa always told me when I went out to keep my legs crossed and told my brother to keep his pecker in his pants. LOL.

238 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 4:53:38pm

re: #235 blueraven

wow

Yeah, wow. Either way, the leadership's screwed, they can't avoid a spectacle on the convention floor. The question, is, are they willing to piss off the states just to deny the Paulians their last hurrah?

239 Sionainn  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 4:54:21pm

re: #235 blueraven

wow

Romney's lawyer proposed the rule change. Another poor choice in who he has to advise him. *shaking my head*

240 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 4:54:44pm

re: #237 Sionainn

My grandpa always told me when I went out to keep my legs crossed and told my brother to keep his pecker in his pants. LOL.

I had a VERY blunt great-grandfather. His advice to his sons and grandsons was: "Keep your penis in your pants and everything will be okay."

241 Only The Lurker Knows  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 5:07:00pm

at 1:08 "But let’s remember, I’m doing the Romney-Ryan ticket"

This isn't what I heard. Maybe I am mistaken. But I will swear he is saying he is joining the Abromney-Ryan Ticket. Can some one with video editing skills cut that section out and perhaps verify/discount it. Because if I heard what I think I did, well that would be hilarious.

Edited. It was an ah vs an oh. Still funny.

Yeah, I reran numerous times.

242 Mattand  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 5:13:14pm

re: #228 Targetpractice

When you start arguing over what qualifies as rape or whether the only women who can get an abortion are those whose health is at stake, then Ryan and his fellow travelers have already got you arguing on their terms. By arguing that they're okay with "exceptions," they've staked out a false "middle ground" and pushed pro-choicers into arguing over what "exceptions" there should be.

Fine. I'm not arguing either of those points. I never have. If a woman wants an abortion, in the end it's her body and her decision. It's no one else's fucking business.

I know most of the people here are on that page. That's why I'm getting frustrated. I'm getting the impression that it's being hinted I am somehow siding with or being duped by these fucking nutbars.

Full on honest opinion: these dirtbags want abortion gone because it bugs the shit out of them that a woman would dare to enjoy sex and engage in it freely, whether or not she wants a family.

They think that's what their invisible sky father and his book of contradictory fables tells them. They live in a scripture-soaked fantasy world that the Taliban would be envious of.

It's religion at its worst and it's a danger to the lives of American women everywhere. It paints us a country of uneducated knuckle dragging cavemen who wouldn't know the 21st century if it bit us in the ass.

243 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 5:14:03pm

re: #241 Bubblehead II

at 1:08 "But let’s remember, I’m doing the Romney-Ryan ticket"

This isn't what I heard. Maybe I am mistaken. But I will swear he is saying he is joining the Obromney-Ryan Ticket. Can some one with video editing skills cut that section out and perhaps verify/discount it. Because if I heard what I think I did, well that would be hilarious.

I thought I heard that too.

244 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 5:19:28pm

re: #96 The Left

Exactly. If sex doesn't carry with it the risk of impregnation and also death for the female partner they're not interested.

Now if everyone were praying mantises I think the males would be a lot more concerned...

245 danhenry1  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 5:20:27pm

re: #5 Charles Johnson

Just so, Charles. It would be like looking at Teresa, and her work in India. To think that she would feed infants so that they could be baptized in the Church? That is 'chasing the so called Soul'. That is sick.

246 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 5:21:37pm

re: #112 The Left

If you have sex using any form of contraception, you are "öbjectifying" your partner because you're engaging in the act purely for pleasure.

This really is their thinking.

Youtube Video
247 blueraven  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 5:23:06pm

Bill O'Reilly is simply apoplectic over the fact that Sandra Fluke has a speaking role at the DNC.

248 freetoken  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 5:27:15pm

Republicans call for crackdown on pornography

The Republican Party is calling for a crackdown on pornography in a move that could pit social conservatives against hotel operators, television providers and other businesses that profit from the sale of sexually explicit material.

As they prepare to nominate Mitt Romney as their presidential candidate for the November 6 election, Republicans have added language to their official platform that anti-smut activists said would encourage the federal government to step up prosecution of pornography involving adults.

[...]

Anti-pornography activist Patrick Trueman said the language in the Republican platform would bolster a broader push against the type of sexually explicit material that is sold by convenience stores, by hotels via pay-per-view television programming, and satellite and cable TV providers.

[...]

Hehe... the GOP's own fanboys like Sheldon Adelson, Rupert Murdoch, etc. are by the new platform the worse offenders.

Marriott... yeah, Romney was there.

249 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 5:28:02pm

re: #248 freetoken

Republicans call for crackdown on pornography

Hehe... the GOP's own fanboys like Sheldon Adelson, Rupert Murdoch, etc. are by the new platform the worse offenders.

Marriott... yeah, Romney was there.

Focused like a laser on jobs and the economy.

250 abolitionist  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 5:30:23pm

re: #244 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Now if everyone were praying mantises I think the males would be a lot more concerned...

When I was about 8, a neighbor had a terrarium in which a mantis pair had mated. The male survived about 3 days after mating, without a head. He could still find water and drink, but could not eat.

251 freetoken  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 5:31:32pm

Isaac expected to peak right as it hits NOLA:

[Link: www.wunderground.com...]

252 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 5:31:56pm

re: #248 freetoken

Free market for me, not for thee.

253 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 5:33:34pm

Liz Smith (the Liz Smith) goes off in her society column.

[Link: www.newyorksocialdiary.com...]

WOMEN STILL LOSING CONTROL OF THEIR BODIES — WHAT NEXT — WILL WE LOSE THE VOTE?!

“I DO care!” says your writer Liz Smith.

So I won’t be one of those people who says, “I don’t care who wins just so it is fair and equal.” Because life is never “fair” and “equal.” Look closely at how the GOP in state after state is trying to disenfranchise voters who are black, Latino, old or too poor to get a ride to wherever they hand out the hard-to-get I.D. crap that will enable them to actually vote.


(Previously they had voted through the years and were established voters.) Oh well, you take my meaning.

We used to encourage everyone to vote; now some states don’t even bother to hide their bias. They try to make it impossible for large factions to do their duty as citizens. And, at the very least, many people will be standing in long long lines on Nov. 6th.....

Continued, please read, she gets to the women soon enough.

254 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 5:34:10pm

re: #250 abolitionist

When I was about 8, a neighbor had a terrarium in which a mantis pair had mated. The male survived about 3 days after mating, without a head. He could still find water and drink, but could not eat.

omg, that shaped you in a way, I bet.//

255 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 5:34:55pm

RNC Romney fail:

On page 177 of the hardcover version of No Apology that’s being given out at the RNC, Romney describes his Massachusetts health care law and writes: “We can accomplish the same thing for everyone in the country, and it can be done without letting government take over health care.”

This language was problematic, because it implied, contrary to what Romney has said elsewhere, that Romney thought his Massachusetts health care law could be a model for the nation. Such phrasing complicated his argument for why his law was different from President Obama’s national one.

The paperback version of the book was edited to read, “And it was done without government taking over health care,” thus removing the reference to “accomplish(ing) the same thing for everyone in the country.”

256 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 5:37:52pm

re: #254 Stanley Sea

omg, that shaped you in a way, I bet.//

I once watched a headless chicken run through a break in a hedge and around the back of the barn without smacking into fences, posts, bins or the barn itself.

257 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 5:40:01pm

re: #89 The Left

The Left applauds you!

Shouldn't that be "Teh Left?"

258 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 5:40:28pm

re: #255 goddamnedfrank

RNC Romney fail:

Oh Romney, oh Romney-O, who art thou today?

259 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 5:44:28pm

re: #256 b_sharp

I once watched a headless chicken run through a break in a hedge and around the back of the barn without smacking into fences, posts, bins or the barn itself.

Funny story my ex-husband told: As a kid his dad had a pen of chickens. One day he caught a snake and decided to throw it into the pen to see what the chickens would do (assuming every living thing is afraid of a snake) Well, he witnessed immediate carnage. The snake was toast and all over the place in .05 seconds.

260 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 5:45:37pm

re: #258 Gus

Oh Romney, oh Romney-O, who art thou today?

Romney probably bought a metric shitload of hardbacks back in 2008, before the edit, when he thought he could run on Mass healthcare reform. Then Obama went and tainted the whole issue with his blackness, so now Mitt's looking to dump his book pile as convention swag.

261 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 5:48:03pm

In 1968, France was a dangerous place to be for a 21 year old American.
-- Mitt Romney, Pro-Vietnam War Protester

262 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 5:48:18pm

re: #256 b_sharp

I once watched a headless chicken run through a break in a hedge and around the back of the barn without smacking into fences, posts, bins or the barn itself.

A metaphor for the Republican Party.

Sooner or later, it will fall down.

263 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 5:48:20pm

re: #259 Stanley Sea

Funny story my ex-husband told: As a kid his dad had a pen of chickens. One day he caught a snake and decided to throw it into the pen to see what the chickens would do (assuming every living thing is afraid of a snake) Well, he witnessed immediate carnage. The snake was toast and all over the place in .05 seconds.

They can be tough little peckers.

Mind you, they're also the world's dumbest birds.
As kids, my cousin and I would tuck their heads under one of their wings and rock them a few times. They'd fall asleep in seconds.

264 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 5:49:19pm

re: #262 wrenchwench

A metaphor for the Republican Party.

Sooner or later, it will fall down.

And they're running around like a chicken with it's head cut off.

265 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 5:50:22pm

I knew I'd be good for something eventually.

266 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 5:50:30pm

Romney probably wakes up every day and thinks to himself, "who shall I be today?"

267 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 5:51:30pm

Oh look!

268 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 5:52:10pm

Another drunk homophobe.

269 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 5:53:37pm

re: #267 Gus

Oh look!

[Embedded content]

This is the guy SFZ mentioned.

270 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 5:53:52pm

Image: 483px-ArchbishopSalvatoreCordileone.jpg

271 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 5:54:10pm

re: #270 Gus

Image: 483px-ArchbishopSalvatoreCordileone.jpg

Oops. Fixed.

272 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 5:54:54pm

In January 2011, Cordileone was named the chairman of the U.S. Bishops’ Ad Hoc Committee for the Defense of Marriage, in which capacity he will be working against the legalization of same-sex marriage[17]. In a June 2012 EWTN News interview, Cordileone stated that a redefinition of marriage to include homosexual couples would be bad for children, detrimental to society and dangerous for religious freedom[18][19].

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

273 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 5:56:38pm

[Link: www.marriagematterstokids.org...]

274 Big Joe  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 5:56:58pm

re: #259 Stanley Sea

Funny story my ex-husband told: As a kid his dad had a pen of chickens. One day he caught a snake and decided to throw it into the pen to see what the chickens would do (assuming every living thing is afraid of a snake) Well, he witnessed immediate carnage. The snake was toast and all over the place in .05 seconds.

Appropriate

275 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:00:08pm

Minor note. Not sure if he was the "father of Prop 8." However, he was a strong proponent of Prop. 8 and just another... well, I'm sure you can fill in the blanks.

276 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:00:44pm

re: #263 b_sharp

They can be tough little peckers.

Mind you, they're also the world's dumbest birds.
As kids, my cousin and I would tuck their heads under one of their wings and rock them a few times. They'd fall asleep in seconds.

That's COOL.

277 Only The Lurker Knows  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:00:51pm

If you think you are to drunk to post. You should not.

I have hit that point

Night Lizards

278 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:01:21pm

re: #274 Big Joe

Appropriate

Oh hell yeah.

279 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:02:25pm

re: #267 Gus

Oh look!

[Embedded content]

12:30, around San Diego State. Hmmmm

280 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:03:04pm

re: #279 Stanley Sea

12:30, around San Diego State. Hmmmm

Yeah. I'm wondering something else here too. (cough)

281 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:03:20pm

re: #270 Gus

Image: 483px-ArchbishopSalvatoreCordileone.jpg

He's a freaking twink.

282 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:03:54pm

re: #260 goddamnedfrank

Romney probably bought a metric shitload of hardbacks back in 2008, before the edit, when he thought he could run on Mass healthcare reform. Then Obama went and tainted the whole issue with his blackness, so now Mitt's looking to dump his book pile as convention swag.

While paying for them from the campaign account, and claiming the book to be on its way to a best seller (even though he was the one that bought pallets of them). Other peoples money.

283 Interesting Times  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:06:16pm

Not sure about others, but I'm deliberately shunning ALL Corporate Media™ coverage of the RNC. Fuck them and their smarmy, dishonest, racism-and-misogyny-legitimizing coverage.

284 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:06:29pm

re: #282 RayFerd

While paying for them from the campaign account, and claiming the book to be on its way to a best seller (even though he was the one that bought pallets of them). Other peoples money.

Palin did that.

285 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:07:40pm

re: #283 Interesting Times

Not sure about others, but I'm deliberately shunning ALL Corporate Media™ coverage of the RNC. Fuck them and their smarmy, dishonest, racism-and-misogyny-legitimizing coverage.

Hell no, I'm not watching that shit. The best thing is this place and twitter will alert me to anything remotely interesting.

What a dud. A hateful dud.

286 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:08:03pm
Cordileone was a leader in the successful campaign in 2008 to pass Proposition 8, the California initiative that banned same-sex marriage. Since 2011, he has been chairman of the Subcommittee on the Promotion and Defense of Marriage of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops.

Read more: [Link: www.sfgate.com...]

287 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:11:33pm

re: #286 Gus

Read more: [Link: www.sfgate.com...]

And then he got his promotion, and then....a DUI. In San Diego! LOL, the area around SD State is not where he should have been. No way, no how.

288 freetoken  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:12:26pm

re: #280 Gus

Yeah. I'm wondering something else here too. (cough)

Fresh coeds, just off the turnip truck.

289 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:13:16pm

re: #287 Stanley Sea

And then he got his promotion, and then....a DUI. In San Diego! LOL, the area around SD State is not where he should have been. No way, no how.

re: #288 freetoken

Fresh coeds, just off the turnip truck.

What's that area like?

290 darthstar  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:14:04pm

Romney campaign denies Romney's shift on abortion.

In other words, "Shut up Mitt...you don't speak for yourself." (does this mean Mitt Romney is the GOP's first female presidential candidate?

291 darthstar  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:15:10pm

re: #290 darthstar

Romney campaign denies Romney's shift on abortion.

In other words, "Shut up Mitt...you don't speak for yourself." (does this mean Mitt Romney is the GOP's first female presidential candidate?

In twitter form

292 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:15:13pm

re: #289 Gus

re: #288 freetoken

What's that area like?

College living I guess, don't think it's anywhere near the diocese, but I guess I could look it up. Couple of blocks south......is very questionable...Freetoken knows more than moi.

293 Interesting Times  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:15:34pm
294 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:16:13pm

re: #286 Gus

Read more: [Link: www.sfgate.com...]

So how is your sex life?

Not bad for a priest in a small diocese.

295 freetoken  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:18:16pm

re: #289 Gus

What's that area like?

The SDSU area is right in the middle of the area, with major highways, and mostly students living in the immediate area, except for a small enclave of high end homes to the west. Other than that, it's all pretty blah, middle of the road California type of area.

AFAIK, there are no strip clubs in the area, which used to be cordoned off to the airport/seaport area.

Long ago, the major east west street (El Cajon Blvd.) used to be for walking prostitutes, but I think that was stopped a long time ago.

296 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:19:22pm
He said he had been visiting friends with his 88-year-old mother and "a priest friend visiting from outside the country" Saturday night, and after a meal together he was driving his mother to her home near San Diego State University.

Read more: [Link: www.sfgate.com...]

297 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:19:47pm

Still no excuse.

"Honest occifer. I was just driving home from visiting me mum."

298 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:20:03pm

GUS! I made my 85 year old Yellow Dog Democrat Aunt LOSE HER SHIT when I told her about the giant uterus heading for the GOP convention. Then I sent her the photo. She was dying.

Today I sent her the big purple penis - LOL

299 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:20:38pm

re: #298 Stanley Sea

GUS! I made my 85 year old Yellow Dog Democrat Aunt LOSE HER SHIT when I told her about the giant uterus heading for the GOP convention. Then I sent her the photo. She was dying.

Today I sent her the big purple penis - LOL

God lord! It's a penis!

300 Charles Johnson  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:21:42pm

And there was weeping, and gnashing of teeth.

Sorry, just getting in the mood for the RNC.

301 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:22:04pm

I just fixed my swamp cooler. Therefore, tomorrow will be a better day (and today wasn't too bad...)

Later, lizards.

Image: funny-cat-pictures-shell-get-it-out-in-an-hour-or-two.jpg

302 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:23:32pm

re: #300 Charles Johnson

And there was weeping, and gnashing of teeth.

Sorry, just getting in the mood for the RNC.

"We could have had Santorum! We could have had Bachmann! We could even have had Newt! But no, we've stuck with Romney! How did it go so wrong?!"

303 darthstar  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:23:54pm

re: #293 Interesting Times

[Embedded content]

She misspelled 'momma'...and Mitt posed with it.

304 darthstar  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:24:29pm

re: #298 Stanley Sea

GUS! I made my 85 year old Yellow Dog Democrat Aunt LOSE HER SHIT when I told her about the giant uterus heading for the GOP convention. Then I sent her the photo. She was dying.

Today I sent her the big purple penis - LOL

Barney!

305 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:25:20pm

re: #300 Charles Johnson

And there was weeping, and gnashing of teeth.

Sorry, just getting in the mood for the RNC.

I expect this to be the first teleprompter free convention in decades.

306 freetoken  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:25:49pm

More interesting than Paulian BBQ :

Sweet! Kim Kardashian Debuts ‘Chocolate Brown’ Hair Color

It's a good look for her, but she seems older.

I wonder... if Paul Ryan had a new hair-do... would it help?

307 Interesting Times  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:26:37pm

re: #303 darthstar

She misspelled 'momma'...and Mitt posed with it.

He just wanted to be closer to Real Amercia™

308 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:28:28pm

re: #303 darthstar

She misspelled 'momma'...and Mitt posed with it.

Who knew Chelsea even had a Museum of Modern Art?

309 Sionainn  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:29:13pm

re: #304 darthstar

Barney!

Wingnut purple penis!

310 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:30:05pm

re: #298 Stanley Sea

GUS! I made my 85 year old Yellow Dog Democrat Aunt LOSE HER SHIT when I told her about the giant uterus heading for the GOP convention. Then I sent her the photo. She was dying.

Today I sent her the big purple penis - LOL

That looks like a little bitty penis hanging off the southeast end of Louisiana.

311 darthstar  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:30:40pm
312 Interesting Times  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:31:10pm

Well, I guess this ought to answer the question re their political persuasion:

313 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:31:42pm

re: #310 Learned Mother of Zion

That looks like a little bitty penis hanging off the southeast end of Louisiana.

I believe that's the frenulum.

314 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:31:48pm

re: #312 Interesting Times

Well, I guess this ought to answer the question re their political persuasion:

[Embedded content]

So that was him!

315 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:31:55pm

re: #305 Gus

I expect this to be the first teleprompter free convention in decades.

Nah, they are going to use it. And we will notice.

316 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:32:17pm

re: #310 Learned Mother of Zion

That looks like a little bitty penis hanging off the southeast end of Louisiana.

hahaha, yeah!

317 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:32:32pm

re: #312 Interesting Times

Well, I guess this ought to answer the question re their political persuasion:

[Embedded content]

Read here.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

318 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:32:58pm

re: #306 freetoken

More interesting than Paulian BBQ :

Sweet! Kim Kardashian Debuts ‘Chocolate Brown’ Hair Color

It's a good look for her, but she seems older.

I wonder... if Paul Ryan had a new hair-do... would it help?

Change your avatar back & you will be forgiven.

319 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:33:37pm

re: #317 Gus

Read here.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: www.myspace.com...]

320 darthstar  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:34:42pm

[Link: gawker.com...]

Holy shit...he's a Palinite.

321 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:34:49pm

re: #319 Gus

[Link: www.myspace.com...]

Still wondering about this one.

322 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:35:18pm

re: #319 Gus

[Link: www.myspace.com...]

Is this the dude that (probably) killed his pregnant wife? Or just a friend?

absolutely horrible people

323 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:36:18pm

re: #322 Stanley Sea

Is this the dude that (probably) killed his pregnant wife? Or just a friend?

absolutely horrible people

That was someone else I think.

324 darthstar  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:36:53pm

re: #312 Interesting Times

Well, I guess this ought to answer the question re their political persuasion:

[Embedded content]

It's getting to the point where putting "GOP Convention Page" on your resume isn't a good career choice.

325 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:37:54pm

I'm not familiar with the story.

326 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:41:40pm
I love: Swimming Hiking Running The outdoors the color red ELECTRONIC MUSIC my friends my family God life in general I don't want very much in life. And I need very little. There's one thing that I know that I need... ..
327 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:42:37pm

Image: l.jpg

See the framed Army "stuff" over the piano?

328 darthstar  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:43:36pm
329 darthstar  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:44:17pm

re: #327 Gus

Image: l.jpg

See the framed Army "stuff" over the piano?

I used to have that TV... fucker weighed a ton!

330 Mich-again  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:44:48pm

re: #302 Targetpractice

"We could have had Santorum! We could have had Bachmann! We could even have had Newt! But no, we've stuck with Romney! How did it go so wrong?!"

It could be the first Country and Western Opera.

331 Charles Johnson  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:46:33pm

Find out how many fake Twitter followers you have.

[Link: fakers.statuspeople.com...]

I'm currently at 2% fakes, 23% inactive (possibly hibernating), and 75% good boys and girls.

332 aagcobb  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:46:45pm

re: #311 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Let's see, bicycling around France, or on patrol in an Indochinese Jungle? Tough choice!

333 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 6:59:02pm

re: #329 darthstar

I used to have that TV... fucker weighed a ton!

I see Tigger in a bag.

334 Amory Blaine  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 7:00:49pm

I can't believe we're still bogged down by these throwbacks. What is this, the 60s?

335 dragonath  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 7:02:27pm

From Political Wire:

"At this moment in time we're quite literally looking at a hurricane here in Florida. We're looking at a political hurricane in this country. We are looking at a spiritual hurricane in our land. And it is time for each one of us to show up and suit up and stand up and realize that in this time and in this day we pour it out for Him."

-- Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-MN), quoted by CNN, who has previously suggested hurricanes are messages from God.

I can kind of see why Republicans just want to go ahead with the coronation and skip the convention.

336 Charles Johnson  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 7:03:10pm
337 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 7:04:43pm

re: #331 Charles Johnson

Find out how many fake Twitter followers you have.

[Link: fakers.statuspeople.com...]

I'm currently at 2% fakes, 23% inactive (possibly hibernating), and 75% good boys and girls.

0 fake, 10% inactive.

338 jaunte  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 7:04:46pm

re: #334 Amory Blaine

I can't believe we're still bogged down by these throwbacks. What is this, the 60s?

A few minutes ago Maddow ran some clips from 1960 of Goldwater talking about conservative purity; the message was very familiar.

339 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 7:06:33pm

re: #337 Stanley Sea

0 fake, 10% inactive.

but I'm just me. RODNEY PEETE follows me though - hell yeah! Can't believe I haven't offended him yet.

340 Sionainn  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 7:07:25pm

re: #326 Gus

I love: Swimming Hiking Running The outdoors the color red ELECTRONIC MUSIC my friends my family God life in general I don't want very much in life. And I need very little. There's one thing that I know that I need... ..

Some commas.

341 engineer cat  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 7:07:54pm

i know christie has to prove he can be something other than snippy and mean, and that mitt has to prove that he can be something other than stiff, uncomfortable, and out of touch with normal people, but what does ryan have to prove that he's not?

342 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 7:08:21pm

re: #312 Interesting Times

Well, I guess this ought to answer the question re their political persuasion:

[Embedded content]

I'm constantly amazed by the douchebag drive to collaborate. I can't think of anybody , in the world, that I would plot a felony with. I mean, I get the drive not to be alone and I'm always on the lookout for a sexy ninja door-gunner, but the whole idea of plotting a massive felonious conspiracy with a bunch of unstable dudes just doesn't appeal to me at all.

343 engineer cat  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 7:10:22pm

re: #303 darthstar

She misspelled 'momma'...and Mitt posed with it.

mitt thinks it's normal - he assumes most ordinary non-millionaire americans are illiterate and incoherent

344 Lidane  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 7:11:28pm
345 Artist  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 7:14:38pm

re: #341 engineer cat

i know christie has to prove he can be something other than snippy and mean, and that mitt has to prove that he can be something other than stiff, uncomfortable, and out of touch with normal people, but what does ryan have to prove that he's not?

Lacking anything remotely resembling compassion or empathy.

346 Mocking Jay  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 7:16:11pm

I try not to laugh when people die, but...

MAN KILLED WHILE TRYING TO CREATE BIGFOOT SIGHTING

KALISPELL, Mont. (AP) -- A man who was apparently trying to provoke reports of a Bigfoot sighting in northwestern Montana was struck by two cars and killed.

I really can't help myself.

347 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 7:16:35pm

re: #346 Mocking Jay

I try not to laugh when people die, but...

MAN KILLED WHILE TRYING TO CREATE BIGFOOT SIGHTING

I really can't help myself.

Darwin rules.

348 Mocking Jay  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 7:17:30pm

re: #344 Lidane

Yeah, Brokaw's going to twist his ankle if he tries to walk this tightrope much longer.

349 Sionainn  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 7:20:14pm

re: #344 Lidane

[Embedded content]

What if that black person is Allen West or someone of his ilk, though?

350 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 7:21:29pm

re: #341 engineer cat

i know christie has to prove he can be something other than snippy and mean, and that mitt has to prove that he can be something other than stiff, uncomfortable, and out of touch with normal people, but what does ryan have to prove that he's not?

A splintery wooden dildo.

A real boy.

A splicer from an underwater city.

A man chooses. A slave obeys.

351 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 7:21:38pm

I guess there are a lot of earthquakes, not too far from me. I feel nothing.

352 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 7:22:08pm
353 Mocking Jay  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 7:24:28pm

re: #351 Stanley Sea

I feel nothing.

Listening to Mitt Romney for too long has been proven to do that...

354 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 7:26:58pm

re: #353 Mocking Jay

Listening to Mitt Romney for too long has been proven to do that...

I AM A NUMB AMERICAN.

That is dangerous.

355 Interesting Times  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 7:32:16pm

re: #342 goddamnedfrank

Question for you - would you be interested in writing something article-length for a site dedicated to improving Democratic/Progressive messaging? Your posts upthread re abortion would be a great jumping-off point. This is the site: Winning Words Project

356 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 7:38:12pm

re: #352 Stanley Sea

Got nothin' here either. Which is a good thing really. Brawley is on a tear though.

357 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 7:41:18pm

re: #356 Daniel Ballard

Got nothin' here either. Which is a good thing really. Brawley is on a tear though.

Yeah, re: #356 Daniel Ballard

Got nothin' here either. Which is a good thing really. Brawley is on a tear though.

yeah, especially since I moved my china from safe storage to a regular cabinet. ha.

358 Mocking Jay  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 7:42:39pm

SCIENCE!

359 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 7:45:22pm

re: #358 Mocking Jay

SCIENCE!

[Embedded content]

Bryan Fischer quotes Glenn Beck's website which of course gets the facts wrong. Call it a Double FAIL Layer Cake.

360 jaunte  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 7:45:50pm

re: #358 Mocking Jay

Just think about the cost of making the infrastructure as dense as NYC over an area the size of Texas. And the water requirements, and the waste disposal, and the food transportation. Fischer is truly an ignoramus.

361 dragonath  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 7:46:11pm

I once found a fundamentalist tract that predicted that the world population would be 34 Trillion by... rapture time!!

Yeah, these people are weird.

362 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 7:46:43pm

re: #359 Dark_Falcon

Bryan Fischer quotes Glenn Beck's website which of course gets the facts wrong. Call it a Double FAIL Layer Cake.

You know what's really cool? We NEVER hear of Beck, like we used to.

Blessings sent our way.

363 Lidane  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 7:46:45pm

re: #358 Mocking Jay

SCIENCE!

And this is one of the people leading the charge to dumb our kids down by teaching them the fake science of Creationism and David Barton's fake history. Scary.

364 Lidane  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 7:47:33pm

re: #360 jaunte

Just think about the cost of making the infrastructure as dense as NYC over an area the size of Texas. And the water requirements, and the waste disposal, and the food transportation. Fischer is truly an ignoramus.

See, now you're bringing facts and reality into the equation. That's not allowed in Greater Wingnuttia.

365 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 7:49:19pm

re: #362 Stanley Sea

You know what's really cool? We NEVER hear of Beck, like we used to.

Blessings sent our way.

It's a good thing. I don't miss him.

366 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 7:56:10pm

re: #355 Interesting Times

Question for you - would you be interested in writing something article-length for a site dedicated to improving Democratic/Progressive messaging? Your posts upthread re abortion would be a great jumping-off point. This is the site: Winning Words Project

Yeah I'm game. Not clear what their outside submission policy is though?

368 Mich-again  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 8:00:22pm

re: #358 Mocking Jay

I think he's off there, but I will confirm. I believe the stat is that if Texas were one big trailer park we could all fit.

369 Lidane  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 8:02:09pm

re: #368 Mich-again

I think he's off there, but I will confirm. I believe the stat is that if Texas were one big trailer park we could all fit.

It would be the filthiest trailer park on the planet, considering the infrastructure we'd need for sewage, trash, and water treatment for 7 billion people.

370 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 8:02:51pm

re: #367 Lidane

Mitt’s dog whistles are reaching his target audience

Baloney. I'm sure Mitt Romney finds that image appalling and doesn't want his supporters thinking that way. All this "code word" stuff is greatly overblown.

371 Mich-again  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 8:03:36pm

re: #369 Lidane

It would be the filthiest trailer park on the planet, considering the infrastructure we'd need for sewage, trash, and water treatment for 7 billion people.

Ya think? Its a completely ridiculous argument to even make..

372 Lidane  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 8:03:53pm

re: #370 Dark_Falcon

Baloney. I'm sure Mitt Romney finds that image appalling and doesn't want his supporters thinking that way.

Then why pander to the birthers and bigots?

All this "code word" stuff is greatly overblown.

Not really. If anything, it gets swept aside far too easily.

373 Mich-again  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 8:12:00pm

re: #368 Mich-again

I think he's off there, but I will confirm. I believe the stat is that if Texas were one big trailer park we could all fit.

OK, the stat is a decent one.

NYC = 42 people/acre
World population in Texas = 40 people/acre

374 abolitionist  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 8:14:02pm

OT - Warning on critical Java hole
Excerpt:

Small effort with a large security gain: in Firefox, disable Java in the Add-ons menu under Plugins

All versions of the 7.x branch of Java are affected. In tests, the exploit worked under Windows with all popular browsers including Google Chrome.

Quick Bits about Today's Java 0-Day

Published: 2012-08-27,
Last Updated: 2012-08-27 23:16:15 UTC
This is what we know so far about the vulnerability: there is an exploit in the wild, it works on the latest FireFox, and Chrome, and it targets Java 1.7 update 6, there is currently no patch available, the exploit has been integrated into the metasploit framework.

What this means: the potential hit rate for drive-by attacks is currently elevated. Since this is a java vulnerability, this may also affect more than just Windows [snip]

The next patch cycle from Oracle isn't scheduled for another two months (October.)

What you can do: this places normal end-users in a pretty bad position, relying mostly upon disabling, or restricting java and hoping that AV catches the payload that gets installed. None of these are really good options. [snip]

(Links are to Majorgeeks and Internet Storm Center, ie, both are trustworthy; the 2nd deals with cyberstorms and internet stuff, not weather.)

375 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 8:16:16pm

I try to be a stickler for accuracy. If one is going to quote someone you use their exact words. I'm talking about the Boehner quote which I'm now seeing repeating on Twitter that he said he "hope"

“This election is about economics,” Boehner said. “These groups have been hit the hardest. They may not show up and vote for our candidate but I’d suggest to you they won’t show up and vote for the president either.”

He does not say hope. People need to knock this shit off. It makes us look bad.

377 Mocking Jay  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 8:19:18pm

re: #373 Mich-again

OK, the stat is a decent one.

NYC = 42 people/acre
World population in Texas = 40 people/acre

Okay, but to have NYC's density you can't be a trailer park. You need lots and lots of apartments.

378 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 8:20:18pm

Yeesh.

379 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 8:20:51pm

Yuck. I bought mint ice cream by accident.

380 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 8:21:53pm

re: #370 Dark_Falcon

Baloney. I'm sure Mitt Romney finds that image appalling and doesn't want his supporters thinking that way. All this "code word" stuff is greatly overblown.

Yeah. Nobody could possibly look at...

. A continuing effort on the part of the GOP to paint welfare recipients as black and unemployed.

. An ad campaign based around the lie the Obama is removing the work requirement for welfare.

. The GOP candidate telling a mostly-white audience that he told the NAACP that if they wanted free money, they should vote for someone else.

. The candidate hanging around with birthers and Kris Kobach.

. The candidate, in speeches, questioning Obama's "American-ness" and "culture."

...and possibly come up with the idea that Romney is exploiting racial animus to get votes.

Romney might not approve of overt racism, but he's playing the country-club version without hesitation.

381 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 8:21:55pm

The yeesh was about that misquote. People are blindly repeating it. I found myself using some satire crap this morning and immediately reversed it. Some of these people are repeating it knowing full well that it's bullshit. That's wrong.

382 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 8:22:00pm

re: #376 Gus

Misleading Atlantic Wire Piece Accuses Boehner Of Saying ‘Out Loud He Hopes’ Blacks, Latinos Don’t Vote

Good man for posting this one. Elspeth Reeve is trying to rile up her readers and get attention dishonestly. It's important to call out such dishonestly when it happens.

383 Mich-again  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 8:22:59pm

re: #377 Mocking Jay

Okay, but to have NYC's density you can't be a trailer park. You need lots and lots of apartments.

Agreed. A trailer park would be closer to 10 people /acre, nowhere near the level in NYC.

384 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 8:23:30pm

re: #381 Gus

The yeesh was about that misquote. People are blindly repeating it. I found myself using some satire crap this morning and immediately reversed it. Some of these people are repeating it knowing full well that it's bullshit. That's wrong.

Youtube Video

It's all bullshit.
385 Mocking Jay  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 8:23:58pm

re: #379 Gus

Yuck. I bought mint ice cream by accident.

I used to love chocolate chip mint. Older I get the more I like Butter Pecan for some reason.

386 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 8:24:41pm

re: #381 Gus

The yeesh was about that misquote. People are blindly repeating it. I found myself using some satire crap this morning and immediately reversed it. Some of these people are repeating it knowing full well that it's bullshit. That's wrong.

It's an "anything to win" mentality. Such attitudes turn up on both sides of the political spectrum often enough. In this case, the animating idea is that Republicans are so evil that its OK to lie to keep them out of power. This is the same concept as a wingnut "lying for Jesus".

387 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 8:27:13pm

re: #386 Dark_Falcon

It's an "anything to win" mentality. Such attitudes turn up on both sides of the political spectrum often enough. In this case, the animating idea is that Republicans are so evil that its OK to lie to keep them out of power. This is the same concept as a wingnut "lying for Jesus".

One thing is pressing and issue toward its limits. Another thing is fabricating information which is highly unethical for a so called journalist. The same applies for to all of us. If John Boehner did not use those words we should not spread that around as fact.

388 palomino  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 8:28:13pm

re: #370 Dark_Falcon

Baloney. I'm sure Mitt Romney finds that image appalling and doesn't want his supporters thinking that way. All this "code word" stuff is greatly overblown.

Wrong, Romney's getting into areas that McCain had the decency to stay away from: both the birth certificate, and the false implication that Obama just wants to hand out YOUR hard earned money to THEM in the form of more welfare payments. He's trying to use race to appeal to working and mid class whites. This is nothing new for your party...it goes back to 1964.

389 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 8:28:19pm

re: #387 Gus

One thing is pressing and issue toward its limits. Another thing is fabricating information which is highly unethical for a so called journalist. The same applies for to all of us. If John Boehner did not use those words we should not spread that around as fact.

Quite Concur.

390 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 8:28:33pm

Crap. National Journal.

391 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 8:30:25pm

Unfreaking believable.

392 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 8:30:48pm

Wait. They corrected it.

393 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 8:30:50pm

Deleted.

394 makeitstop  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 8:31:28pm

Yeah, the 'code words' thing is overblown...

GOP chairman says party needs to 'prosecute' Obama

No, no code words there. None at all. No, sir. None.

395 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 8:31:50pm

re: #392 Gus

Wait. They corrected it.

Thank goodness.

396 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 8:32:02pm

CORRECTION: The original headline on this story mistated Boehner's remarks about black and Latino voters. He suggested blacks and Latinos won’t show up and vote for either presidential candidate.

397 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 8:33:35pm

re: #395 Dark_Falcon

Thank goodness.

Think I saw that earlier. But the dummies are still going at it.

398 palomino  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 8:35:19pm

Boehner's assessment is right. In 2008, Obama only got 44% of the white vote nationwide, so if minority voters stay home, or can't vote for whatever reason, the GOP is greatly helped. How many states have to pass voter ID laws before it sinks in that this is what the GOP is counting on to do well in future elections?

399 Mich-again  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 8:35:56pm

The Ohio Teabilly John Boehner says enough stupid shit to use against him that no one needs to fabricate any quotes.

400 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 8:35:58pm

re: #397 Gus

Think I saw that earlier. But the dummies are still going at it.

That's to be expected. The National Journal values its reputation and doesn't want to put out deliberate falsehoods. Twitter Twerps, by contrast, just want to hate on people and act like jackasses online.

401 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 8:36:09pm

This search shows over 4000 found on Google.

402 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 8:36:25pm

re: #379 Gus

Yuck. I bought mint ice cream by accident.

Add chocolate sauce!

403 Petero1818  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 8:36:41pm

re: #396 Gus

CORRECTION: The original headline on this story mistated Boehner's remarks about black and Latino voters. He suggested blacks and Latinos won’t show up and vote for either presidential candidate.

this was all dealt with earlier.

404 dragonath  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 8:37:00pm

'Hitler' clothing store in India asked by Jewish community to change name

Shop owner Rajesh Shah said he would be willing to change the name if he was compensated for his expenses in registering the store's name, purchasing signage and business cards, and advertising. Shah said he did not know about Hitler's history, except that he was a strict man, until he started researching it on the Internet.

405 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 8:37:13pm

re: #403 Petero1818

this was all dealt with earlier.

I know. But it keeps showing up in my feed.

406 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 8:38:17pm

re: #403 Petero1818

this was all dealt with earlier.

Bogus Internet Memes take a lot of killing.

407 Interesting Times  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 8:42:34pm

re: #366 goddamnedfrank

Yeah I'm game. Not clear what their outside submission policy is though?

They'll take anything well-written that fits the site's mission on messaging :)

408 Kronocide  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 8:48:55pm

re: #394 makeitstop

Yeah, the 'code words' thing is overblown...

GOP chairman says party needs to 'prosecute' Obama

No, no code words there. None at all. No, sir. None.

Hey, jokes about being born here are levity. Funny.

409 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 8:50:41pm

Oh brother.

When All Is Said & Done The Tea Party Will Be Characterized As Being On The Same Level As Other Extremist Groups Such As The KKK & 3rd Reich

410 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 8:53:36pm

Yahoo didn't correct it.

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

411 Mich-again  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 8:54:55pm

re: #404 dragonath

Shop owner Rajesh Shah said he would be willing to change the name if he was compensated for his expenses in registering the store's name, purchasing signage and business cards, and advertising.

When the Stormfront dredges find out they rode all the way to Rajesh's store for nothing they are not going to be amused. He'll be out there with a paintbrush on a ladder changing the Hitler sign to a Bitler sign

412 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 8:57:16pm

re: #409 Gus

Oh brother.

Yes indeed, Ron Paul is just like Heinrich Himmler.

/sarc

And whoever put out that turd of a Tweet is guilty of a major Godwin violation.

413 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 8:59:34pm

Paged it.

414 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 9:01:30pm

re: #413 Gus

Paged it.

[Embedded content]

Updinged and Tweeted.

415 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 9:02:06pm

re: #412 Dark_Falcon

Yes indeed, Ron Paul is just like Heinrich Himmler.

/sarc

And whoever put out that turd of a Tweet is guilty of a major Godwin violation.

Talk about a Godwin. Yeah, the Tea Party is like one of the Axis nations and a war that killed 60 million people around the world including the genocide of 6 million Jews? This is just as bad as people that compare Obama to Hitler, Mao, etc. More bullshit. It's going to keep getting worse until election day.

416 Kronocide  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 9:07:26pm

re: #415 Gus

Talk about a Godwin. Yeah, the Tea Party is like one of the Axis nations and a war that killed 60 million people around the world including the genocide of 6 million Jews? This is just as bad as people that compare Obama to Hitler, Mao, etc. More bullshit. It's going to keep getting worse until election day.

People who do compare Obama to Mao probably love it when others say Teabaggers are like Nazis because it provides cover. Which leaves the rest of us trying to have a real conversation shaking our heads at the idiocy.

417 RadicalModerate  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 9:07:33pm

I just knew this was coming.

Louisiana Gov. Jindal Balks at Obama's Relief Offer

President Barack Obama has declared a state of emergency in Louisiana as that state prepares for Tropical Storm Isaac.

The White House said Obama informed Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal of the emergency declaration in a phone call Monday. The declaration makes federal funding available for emergency activities related to the storm.

However, Jindal is not satisfied with the Obama administration's level of support for Louisiana, and in a press release called it "a very limited federal disaster declaration by the President."

In a statement released today, The White House noted that “the declaration builds on resources already deployed by FEMA and makes Federal funding available for certain emergency activities undertaken by the state to prepare for and respond to the storm.”

The President made clear that he has directed FEMA Administrator Craig Fugate to make sure the Governors [of Louisiana, Alabama, and Mississippi] have the resources they need as the storm approaches, and asked each Governor to identify additional needs if they arise.

Below is a copy of the letter Governor Jindal sent to President Obama.
[continued...]

Not only is what constitutes an open checkbook not good enough, but the list of parishes that Jindal has declared as disaster areas, and have mandatory evacuation orders for include locations that are nearly 300 miles inland, and currently not in any forecast models for having unusually severe levels of rainfall.

418 Mich-again  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 9:08:40pm

re: #413 Gus

Paged it.

By misquoting Boehner they generate a fury of free publicity. And then when people find out what Boehner actually did say, it still makes for pretty good bulletin board material to use against him and the GOP.

This must be a page right out of the Saul Alinsky manual right?

419 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 9:08:46pm

re: #416 Kronocide

People who do compare Obama to Mao probably love it when others say Teabaggers are like Nazis because it provides cover. Which leaves the rest of us trying to have a real conversation shaking our heads at the idiocy.

It's that convergence of the far-left with the far-right again.

420 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 9:09:46pm

re: #418 Mich-again

By misquoting Boehner they generate a fury of free publicity. And then when people find out what Boehner actually did say, it still makes for pretty good bulletin board material to use against him and the GOP.

This must be a page right out of the Saul Alinsky manual right?

No, its a page out of the Andrew Breitbart manual.

421 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 9:10:36pm

re: #418 Mich-again

By misquoting Boehner they generate a fury of free publicity. And then when people find out what Boehner actually did say, it still makes for pretty good bulletin board material to use against him and the GOP.

This must be a page right out of the Saul Alinsky manual right?

It could be that would have to be provable. The Atlantic as far as I know is usually pretty good about these things. Someone wasn't doing their job like one of the editors.

422 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 9:13:59pm

re: #418 Mich-again

By misquoting Boehner they generate a fury of free publicity. And then when people find out what Boehner actually did say, it still makes for pretty good bulletin board material to use against him and the GOP.

This must be a page right out of the Saul Alinsky manual right?

And Saul Alinsky didn't try this sort of outright lie as a tactic. Of course in his time you could only run this kind rumor quickly within a given neighborhood. If you wanted to get it out to all of Chicago it had to be printed in a newspaper and then distributed the next morning. News stories, both honest and bogus, moved far slower back then.

423 Kronocide  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 9:14:40pm

We Built This GOP strategy may backfire.

I hope the GOP keeps it up.

424 Mich-again  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 9:15:10pm

If the quote had been reported accurately from the start, it might have flown under the radar. But having to use that quote in order to prove you didn't say something much worse still leaves a person in a bad spot. Like I said, it will be bulletin board material for Get Out The Vote.

425 HappyWarrior  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 9:16:55pm

re: #423 Kronocide

We Built This GOP strategy may backfire.

I hope the GOP keeps it up.

That's the problem with distorting what the president said because he was speaking the truth. Anyhow, I'm glad it is backfiring because people need to understand the plain English of what the president said is pretty much that no one becomes a success solely because of themselves and that is true now as when he said it. Romney even agreed but still pressed on the false "You didn't build this" crap because he knew he had a talking point.

426 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 9:18:30pm

re: #398 palomino

Boehner's assessment is right. In 2008, Obama only got 44% of the white vote nationwide, so if minority voters stay home, or can't vote for whatever reason, the GOP is greatly helped. How many states have to pass voter ID laws before it sinks in that this is what the GOP is counting on to do well in future elections?

The Guardian mentioned it 2 months ago.

Can Obama still count on African-American and Jewish voters?
In 2008, Obama won the overwhelming support of black voters and heavily among American Jews. Now, there are doubts

427 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 9:20:10pm

re: #426 Gus

The Guardian mentioned it 2 months ago.

Can Obama still count on African-American and Jewish voters?
In 2008, Obama won the overwhelming support of black voters and heavily among American Jews. Now, there are doubts

Then the NY Times.

Can Obama Recapture the Hispanic Vote?
Shifting demographics, particularly the growth of the minority vote, clearly helped Barack Obama win in 2008. And those shifts continue, which will also help Obama in 2012. Minorities should be 28 percent of the vote, a two-point increase among a constituency that voted 80 percent for Obama.

This was written by someone from the Center for American Progress which is a progressive organization.

428 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 9:21:20pm

Feels hot. Enough already with this summer chit.

429 Mocking Jay  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 9:22:21pm

re: #423 Kronocide

We Built This GOP strategy may backfire.

I hope the GOP keeps it up.

It's so... beautiful.

430 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 9:39:09pm

re: #293 Interesting Times

[Embedded content]

The stupid bitch bigot couldn't even spell properly, all while His Mittness looks like a dumbass

431 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 9:47:11pm

Something wrong with what I said, D_F?

Don't hide behind your dinger, I want you to defend the GOP candidate for President of the United States taking a photo op with an ignoramus that would not only make such a bigoted and stupid statement like that on a homemade sign, but couldn't even spell it all right.

C'mon, you and anyone who is still in the GOP at this point completely owns shit like this; you can either embrace it or reject it (as I have).

432 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 9:47:58pm

re: #431 TedStriker

The downding was retracted before you even posted. Leave it at that.

433 palomino  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 9:49:32pm

re: #426 Gus

The Guardian mentioned it 2 months ago.

Can Obama still count on African-American and Jewish voters?
In 2008, Obama won the overwhelming support of black voters and heavily among American Jews. Now, there are doubts

He'll win 95%+ of the black vote, and probably 70%+ of the Jewish vote, just like in 2008. BUT if turnout among these groups, and even more importantly, Hispanics is down significantly, well, that's what the GOP wants.

434 HappyWarrior  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 9:52:16pm

re: #433 palomino

He'll win 95%+ of the black vote, and probably 70%+ of the Jewish vote, just like in 2008. BUT if turnout among these groups, and even more importantly, Hispanics is down significantly, well, that's what the GOP wants.

Turnout is the key. I do say, if you want to get the Hispanic vote out, emphaize the fact that the president is a supporter of the Dream Act, that's something that is appealing to many Hispanics even those who are more further removed from immigrant status. Add with that the fact that his opponent and his party have opposed that. Hell even point out that you have some Latino Republicans sympathetic to that in some form. And of course Romney's backwards positions on immigration should be mentioned whenever necessary to contrast the candidates.

435 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 9:54:30pm

re: #434 HappyWarrior

Turnout is the key. I do say, if you want to get the Hispanic vote out, emphaize the fact that the president is a supporter of the Dream Act, that's something that is appealing to many Hispanics even those who are more further removed from immigrant status. Add with that the fact that his opponent and his party have opposed that. Hell even point out that you have some Latino Republicans sympathetic to that in some form. And of course Romney's backwards positions on immigration should be mentioned whenever necessary to contrast the candidates.

My parents are Hispanic (Argentina). They're not going to vote for Obama because of the Dream Act.

436 HappyWarrior  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 9:56:29pm

re: #435 Gus

My parents are Hispanic (Argentina). They're not going to vote for Obama because of the Dream Act.

Interesting, though haven't polls shown that the Dream Act is a popular issue with many Hispanic voters?

437 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 9:56:36pm

Either I'm losing my mind or other people are losing theirs because I keep reading weirder shit from my side by the minute. Someone just made a joke about Ann Romney having slaves. Seriously? Is this what we've become?

438 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 9:57:03pm

re: #1 HappyWarrior

How is this really any different from Akin said? Sure he didn't suggest that rape was legitimate but he definitely acted like being raped and then getting pregnant was "just a method of conception." Ryan's an as big sexist as Akin is.

Well, no, Akin suggested that women couldn't get pregnant from rape.

We've now switched gears, because even staunch pro-life people said "Whaaat?"

439 HappyWarrior  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 9:57:27pm

re: #437 Gus

Either I'm losing my mind or other people are losing theirs because I keep reading weirder shit from my side by the minute. Someone just made a joke about Ann Romney having slaves. Seriously? Is this what we've become?

Blind partisanship is a disease.

440 HappyWarrior  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 9:59:32pm

re: #438 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, no, Akin suggested that women couldn't get pregnant from rape.

We've now switched gears, because even staunch pro-life people said "Whaaat?"

Yeah true. I guess I meant it has the same "Sucks for you if you're raped" mentality. Really both Ryan and Akin could learn to be a little empathetic with women who are raped and then find out they got impregnated because of the attack. I realize that not everyone supports abortion being legal but damn what both guys said I think was real shitty and totally insensitive.

441 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 9:59:42pm

re: #436 HappyWarrior

Interesting, though haven't polls shown that the Dream Act is a popular issue with many Hispanic voters?

Yes. But those polls don't necessarily translate into votes. Is it high with registered Hispanic voters who are planning to vote? There's a lot of grey area and it's more nuanced. I think the reason more Hispanics will vote for Obama includes the Dream Act for a good majority but that's not the only reason. Anyway. Obama pretty much has the Hispanic vote in the bag.

442 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 10:01:08pm

re: #439 HappyWarrior

Blind partisanship is a disease.

What's the word I'm looking for. It's not desensitizing. It's when you make a joke about slavery like this you're showing no respect for those that actually suffered through slavery.

443 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 10:02:23pm

re: #97 ggt

what if science got us to the point in which pre-natal testing could show which fetuses were LGBT. Do you think they would be in favor of abortion then?

No, they think that can be fixed with plant food and regular beatings. Or maybe that's autism. Hell if I know.

444 HappyWarrior  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 10:02:25pm

re: #442 Gus

What's the word I'm looking for. It's not desensitizing. It's when you make a joke about slavery like this you're showing no respect for those that actually suffered through slavery.

Lacking perspective perhaps. That's what I feel about people who make light of totalitarianism when they call a president whether he be Bush or Obama a dictator and liken him to Hitler or some other dictator.

445 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 10:03:31pm

re: #444 HappyWarrior

Lacking perspective perhaps. That's what I feel about people who make light of totalitarianism when they call a president whether he be Bush or Obama a dictator and liken him to Hitler or some other dictator.

Right. Like that Twitter gulag crap. Gulag? Seriously?

446 Kronocide  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 10:05:04pm

re: #445 Gus

Right. Like that Twitter gulag crap. Gulag? Seriously?

It's a childish behavior. Since they lack the capacity to create compelling ideas they create attention with wild stories and alternate realities.

447 HappyWarrior  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 10:05:39pm

re: #445 Gus

Right. Like that Twitter gulag crap. Gulag? Seriously?

Precisely. Really, likening having been banned from a private website to one of the worst excesses of totalitarianism where people actually died as opposed to having some minor inconvenience of not being able to tweet.

448 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 10:06:32pm

re: #447 HappyWarrior

Precisely. Really, likening having been banned from a private website to one of the worst excesses of totalitarianism where people actually died as opposed to having some minor inconvenience of not being able to tweet.

That could be the start of an entry in RationalWiki.

449 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 10:06:47pm

re: #191 engineer cat

when adam div and eve span, who then was the gentleman?

Miss Manners says that the answer is Adam, because how could it be Eve?

450 HappyWarrior  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 10:07:22pm

re: #446 Kronocide

It's a childish behavior. Since they lack the capacity to create compelling ideas they create attention with wild stories and alternate realities.

I think there's a victim mentality that I see that exists with political junkies of all stripes. Everyone wants to imagine themselves as the noble fighter against a tyrannical regime. It's more fun to do that than just to merely disagree wiwht what your government is doing. It's why I think the movie Red Dawn is popular in some circles because you have a movie about regular people fighting back against an invasion of America. Not knocking the movie or praising but I think that the appeal of it is seen in the above.

451 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 10:07:55pm

Think I'm about to unfollow someone. This is too much. Another one.

452 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 10:10:14pm

re: #269 Gus

This is the guy SFZ mentioned.

Saw that on TV news earlier.

This is going to be surreal.

453 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 10:11:16pm

re: #452 SanFranciscoZionist

Saw that on TV news earlier.

This is going to be surreal.

Couldn't happen to a nicer guy! He'll probably get the boot but get to keep his stripes.

454 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 10:11:50pm

re: #293 Interesting Times

[Embedded content]

I remember that Hillary was once greeted in Africa somewhere (during Bill's administration), with signs that read "Welcome Mama Chelsea". The local custom is to address a woman as the mother of her oldest daughter.

455 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 10:11:57pm

Can someone translate this for me?

So I guess the question is: how racist are white women? Racist enough to not care about their own interest/healthcare/abortion/birthcontrol

456 HappyWarrior  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 10:12:35pm

Gosh there's a good quote I saw on facebook or around the web by someone, it may have been RFK but anyhow the speaker said the dangerous thing about extremists isn't really what they stand for but it's how they characterize their opponents. When you're dealing with an extremist and it doesn't matter if it's a leftist one or a rightist one. There is a constant I've noticed and it's that you're not allowed to simply disagree with them. You have to be either be commie scum, a fascist, libtard, Nazi, etc.

457 Kronocide  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 10:12:49pm

re: #455 Gus

Can someone translate this for me?

Da da da, da doi doi derp doo dah.

458 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 10:12:55pm

If Romney wins I'm going to move into an underground bunker.

459 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 10:14:37pm

Just say anything! //

460 Kronocide  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 10:15:07pm

re: #456 HappyWarrior

Gosh there's a good quote I saw on facebook or around the web by someone, it may have been RFK but anyhow the speaker said the dangerous thing about extremists isn't really what they stand for but it's how they characterize their opponents. When you're dealing with an extremist and it doesn't matter if it's a leftist one or a rightist one. There is a constant I've noticed and it's that you're not allowed to simply disagree with them. You have to be either be commie scum, a fascist, libtard, Nazi, etc.

It's because they're stupid. Nuance is not possible. If you don't agree, you and created into the Anti of what they believe so you can be attacked.

461 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 10:15:24pm

Yet again.

The highest level Republican, 2nd in line for Presidency, hopes blacks & Latinos won’t show up & vote

462 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 10:16:15pm

They must be stoned or drunk. I already Tweeted this person the correction.

463 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 10:17:03pm

re: #455 Gus

Can someone translate this for me?

I'd interpret it to mean, 'white women will vote against their own interests (by which I think the author means for Republicans') because they are racist and won't vote for Obama.'

464 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 10:18:42pm

re: #463 SanFranciscoZionist

I'd interpret it to mean, 'white women will vote against their own interests (by which I think the author means for Republicans') because they are racist and won't vote for Obama.'

I see. So any woman who votes for Romney can be proven through scientific analysis to be racists. Thus, all women who vote for Romney are racists. Yeah, that makes sense.

//

465 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 10:20:19pm

Here. I'll say it. No. All women who vote for Romney are not racists. Talk about an ignorant generalization.

466 HappyWarrior  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 10:20:23pm

re: #460 Kronocide

It's because they're stupid. Nuance is not possible. If you don't agree, you and created into the Anti of what they believe so you can be attacked.

Yes, indeed. Damn though I can remember talking politics with Ron Paul supporters back in 2007ish on facebook and pointing out that blindly using what the founders said about foreign policy was silly because it's a different world in 2007 than it was in the early years of the Republic. Well, guess who got told they were pretty much a neo-con. Yeah a guy who was going to anti Iraq War protests back when these guys didn't know RuPaul from Ron Paul. I always try to evaluate everything on a case by case detail. Sure, takes a little more time than just having a gut reaction to it but if you analyze, you understand things better.You don't necessary like it but you understand it.

467 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 10:26:38pm

Twitter: 50 percent bullshit.

468 Kronocide  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 10:29:52pm

re: #466 HappyWarrior

My old boss is a Paulian/Teabagger. He posts inane BS or Paul Fanboi videos and I challenge his assertions, or point out stupid crap Paul says.

Doesn't take long for before he calls me a 'Obummer supporter' and trash talks Obama. I stay on point, keeping the conversation focused on the original post/comments. Then some buddy will come in and call me argumentative. Makes me laugh every time.

469 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 10:38:22pm

Another.

#Todd Akin is getting death threats. They have narrowed it down the list to all women, everywhere. #waronwomen #GOP

470 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 10:38:39pm

Yeah, that's funny. Hardie har har.

471 Gus  Mon, Aug 27, 2012 10:44:10pm

Good lord. The moonbats are out.

Paul Ryan's "plan" reads like Hitler's FINAL SOLUTION!

472 GunstarGreen  Tue, Aug 28, 2012 7:03:36am

re: #8 Targetpractice

Any god who would visit rape upon a woman is not a god I wish to be associated with. And sure as fuck don't want his "word" as the basis for our laws.

Pretty much this. This is why I am not religious, because "god works in mysterious ways" is not a good enough answer. A god that has the power to do anything and still allows evil to happen is an evil god, and I refuse to dedicate myself to an evil god.


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