Der Spiegel: Snowden Released Information That Could “Endanger the Lives of NSA Workers”

But Greenwald and Snowden insisted the docs were “carefully screened”
World • Views: 32,297

An interesting tweet from Wired’s Kevin Poulsen led me to re-read this article at Spiegel Online:

The sentence that jumped out on a second reading:

SPIEGEL has decided not to publish details it has seen about secret operations that could endanger the lives of NSA workers.

Kudos to Der Spiegel’s editors for deciding to be responsible, but of course since the documents are out there now, and obviously in the hands of lots of people, that information will inevitably bubble up somewhere on the Interwebs.

The interesting thing, though, is that both Glenn Greenwald and Edward Snowden are on the record saying that Snowden had carefully “screened” and “vetted” the information before releasing it to Greenwald (and apparently the Washington Post, although it’s not clear at this point if the Post got the full package of documents).

Snowden told the South China Morning Post (the article’s behind a paywall):

“I did not release them earlier because I don’t want to simply dump huge amounts of documents without regard to their content,” he said. “I have to screen everything before releasing it to journalists.”

And in this video interview, Glenn Greenwald said Edward Snowden had “carefully” vetted the leaked documents to ensure no public harm:

YouTube

Spiegel Online’s article doesn’t specify what kind of information they’re talking about, but “endanger the lives of NSA workers” strongly suggests there are names of personnel in there, and even a cursory attempt to “vet” documents like these would include as one of the first steps redacting all names of people. How much screening or vetting actually took place?

It now looks as if Snowden simply grabbed everything he could get, and dumped it all to several sources, very probably including China and Russia. The claims that Snowden “carefully screened” anything seem, uh, somewhat suspect.

Jump to bottom

158 comments

1 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:21:33pm

I used to find the German press and media pretty stodgy, but at least there are some publications and broadcasters who value professional integrity over sensationalism.

2 Kragar  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:23:44pm

It’s almost as if Snowden and Greenwald have no fucking clue and have put people and national security at risk. Who could have seen that coming?
/

3 dragonath  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:24:09pm

At this point, I wonder how enthusiastic Snowden is about Russia. The guy didn’t show any kind of allegiance to America and likely has even less for Russia.

Last thing Putin needs is a loose cannon destroying established intelligence protocols.

4 Gus  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:25:31pm

This is a lie and I carefully vetted what was released. Nothing that was released would put people’s lives in danger Obama loyalist!
— Glenn Greenwald

5 Gus  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:30:03pm

Speaking of which.

6 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:30:22pm
7 dragonath  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:31:07pm
8 HAL2010  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:31:40pm

If Snowden wanted any sort of recognition he should have taken everything he had straight the the ACLU, stayed in Hawaii and been arrested, and faced the courts.

That would have been honourable.

The man is no hero.

9 dragonath  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:32:43pm

Oh, lol, Morsi’s only response to the army’s ultimatum was through Twitter.

10 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:32:55pm

re: #3 dragonath

At this point, I wonder how enthusiastic Snowden is about Russia. The guy didn’t show any kind of allegiance to America and likely has even less for Russia.

Last thing Putin needs is a loose cannon destroying established intelligence protocols.

The closest he’ll (Snowden) get to Putins/ Russias established intelligence protocols is being questioned by Putins people

11 wrenchwench  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:33:56pm

re: #9 dragonath

Oh, lol, Morsi’s only response to the army’s ultimatum was through Twitter.

12 dragonath  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:34:16pm

re: #10 sattv4u2

Yeah, probably. I don’t think Putin is the kind of guy who likes seeing things get out of his control, though.

13 thedopefishlives  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:34:20pm

Whenever any so-called “whistleblower” claims to have “carefully vetted” their documents, I automatically assume that they didn’t give a rat’s ass and just dumped everything they could get their sticky little fingers on. It’s just a trend.

14 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:34:54pm

re: #9 dragonath

re: #11 wrenchwench

At the rate people are leaving the gov’t there, they’ll soon be able to hold meetings in a phone booth

15 engineer cat  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:35:13pm

Egyptian TV: President Morsi to address the nation shortly

16 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:36:45pm

re: #15 engineer cat

Egyptian TV: President Morsi to address the nation shortly

Predicted translation

“Please be calm. We just need some more time. We knew Mubarak left the country in a bad state, but we didn’t know it was this bad, so it will take more time than we thought”

17 dragonath  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:37:04pm

re: #15 engineer cat

Egyptian TV: President Morsi to address the nation shortly

Someone shine a laser pointer in his eyes.

19 Targetpractice  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:37:36pm

re: #8 HAL2010

If Snowden wanted any sort of recognition he should have taken everything he had straight the the ACLU, stayed in Hawaii and been arrested, and faced the courts.

That would have been honourable.

The man is no hero.

Yeah, but that would have required him to accept spending the rest of his life in jail. He seemed to believe that getting to a non-extradition country would be simple, and it might have been had he not wanted the attention that revealing his name to the press would have afforded him. But no, he had to make his balls feel big by saying “Here I am!!”

20 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:39:05pm

re: #17 dragonath

Someone shine a laser pointer in his eyes.

or throw a shoe at him

22 abolitionist  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:39:28pm

re: #17 dragonath
Inappropriate use of technology.

23 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:40:00pm

re: #15 engineer cat

Egyptian TV: President Morsi to address the nation shortly

He’s speaking right now.

24 Lidane  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:40:20pm

re: #21 Kragar

Gay Marriage Violates the Separation of Church and State, Apparently

These same assholes ALSO claim that the separation of church and state is a myth. WTF.

25 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:41:42pm

Looks like he’s had a rough week.

26 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:41:46pm

re: #24 Lidane

These same assholes ALSO claim that the separation of church and state is a myth. WTF.

Their church for their state, and you accept their myths!

27 Kragar  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:42:29pm

re: #24 Lidane

These same assholes ALSO claim that the separation of church and state is a myth. WTF.

“The issue is God defined marriage and since our Constitution, our Declaration of Independence and the oath of office in the state of Illinois recognize almighty God, then we have no right to disregard what God says about the institution of marriage. They don’t have a right to step beyond the veil, that separation of church and state, because it is God who gives us religious freedom and not the state.”

Religious freedom is in the Bible!

Wait a second…

28 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:42:34pm

re: #23 NJDhockeyfan

He’s speaking right now.

[Embedded content]

Thanks, I just tuned in. Anything interesting yet?

29 dragonath  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:42:51pm

Wow this is a belligerent speech

30 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:43:09pm

re: #16 sattv4u2

Predicted translation

“Please be calm. We just need some more time. We knew Mubarak left the country in a bad state, but we didn’t know it was this bad, so it will take more time than we thought”

”,,, remnants of the former regime,,,,”

Did I call it, or what

31 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:43:25pm

re: #28 Killgore Trout

Thanks, I just tuned in. Anything interesting yet?

see 30

32 dragonath  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:43:28pm

“Forces outside Egypt… want us to be a satellite”

33 Kragar  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:43:57pm

re: #32 dragonath

“Forces outside Egypt… want us to be a satellite”

But enough about the Muslim Brotherhood.
/

34 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:44:19pm

re: #5 Gus

Sorry, Glennlandia, but you’re not the POTUS. And thankfully you’ll never be.

I know his massive ego demanded he tweet that, but what a sorry-assed false equivalency pusher.

35 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:44:46pm

re: #30 sattv4u2

”,,, remnants of the foreign regime,,,,”

Did I call it, or what

That’s seem to be the dominant theme so far.

36 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:44:49pm

”,,, challenges are huge ,, the big challenge, corruption”,, “still living with these challenges”

Yup, he’s laying it all at Mubaraks feet

37 dragonath  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:45:29pm

Conspiracies, man!

38 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:46:01pm

Wow, somebody count the “former regime” references. It’s almost every other sentence.

39 Lidane  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:46:01pm

In other news:

40 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:46:17pm

(((BTW ,,, H/T to NJDhockey for the link)))

41 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:46:54pm

re: #38 Killgore Trout

Wow, somebody count the “former regime” references. It’s almost every other sentence.

When you only have one horse, you ride it till the (bitter) end

42 dragonath  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:47:14pm

“Will of the people, we are acting with legitimacy”

43 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:47:23pm
44 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:47:51pm

This does not sound like a concession speech. He’s not going to go voluntarily.

45 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:47:57pm

Morsi’s not stepping down. This is going to get ugly.

46 dragonath  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:49:00pm

Remnant of the former regime DRINK

47 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:49:06pm
48 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:50:10pm

re: #46 dragonath

Remnant of the former regime DRINK

dammit ,, can’t play. Have to go to work in a few hours!

49 dragonath  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:50:28pm

Man I’m gonna get drunk

50 thedopefishlives  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:50:44pm

re: #45 Charles Johnson

Morsi’s not stepping down. This is going to get ugly.

As if it wasn’t already.

51 dragonath  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:50:46pm

Just called the opposition murderers

52 Kragar  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:52:12pm

Well, this is going to be fun.

53 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:52:26pm

He doesn’t stand a chance. The military will arrest him without much trouble. What is he thinking?

54 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:52:55pm

Note: one of the people credited on this Der Spiegel article is Laura Poitras, the activist who’s been working with Snowden and Greenwald. Not hard to figure out where Der Spiegel got the documents.

55 dragonath  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:53:27pm

He’s getting more and more histrionic as this goes on.

56 Targetpractice  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:53:34pm

re: #53 Killgore Trout

He doesn’t stand a chance. The military will arrest him without much trouble. What is he thinking?

Probably what Mubarak thought: “The people won’t let the military do this!”

57 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:53:36pm

re: #53 Killgore Trout

He doesn’t stand a chance. The military will arrest him without much trouble. What is he thinking?

If they’re chasing you out of town with torches, go with your head held high. It will look like you’re leading the parade!!

58 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:53:39pm

Is he calling for civil war?

59 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:54:24pm

re: #54 Charles Johnson

Note: one of the people credited on this Der Spiegel article is Laura Poitras, the activist who’s been working with Snowden and Greenwald. Not hard to figure out where Der Spiegel got the documents.

I noted that the same day the Der Spiegel article was posted. Have you looked at the other three names in that byline?

60 dragonath  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:54:42pm

Messianic complex!

61 piratedan  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:55:01pm

re: #53 Killgore Trout

He doesn’t stand a chance. The military will arrest him without much trouble. What is he thinking?

obviously he’s been listening to too much Bon Jovi……

Link

62 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:56:06pm
63 dragonath  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:56:19pm

“My own life. I will stand against any attempt to shed a drop of blood… I will stand guardian to legitimacy.”

64 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:56:19pm

Huh, the nuance is getting confusing.

65 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:56:19pm
66 Kragar  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:56:27pm

re: #58 Killgore Trout

Is he calling for civil war?

Doesn’t matter, its what he’s going to get.

67 dragonath  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:56:38pm

I AM THE PRESIDENT OF EGYPT BEEOTCHES

68 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:56:41pm
69 Targetpractice  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:57:06pm

re: #68 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Mubarak could not be reached for comment.

70 Kragar  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:57:18pm

re: #62 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Does that include the MB who have called for its supporters to seek martyrdom?

71 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:57:44pm

”,, it is the armys responsibility to protect lives ,,,,” (ESPECIALLY mine!!)

72 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:58:10pm

re: #68 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Good luck with that.

73 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:58:54pm

re: #66 Kragar

Doesn’t matter, its what he’s going to get.

I don’t think so. Egypt doesn’t have many private militias aside from some guys in Sinai. I don’t really see the average Muslim Bro supporter to take up arms and fight. There might be skirmishes but I doubt we’ll see a civil war.

74 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:58:54pm

Now he’s done it, the shoes are coming out.

75 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:59:16pm

I wonder if he told his driver to keep the engine running!!

76 dragonath  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 2:59:48pm

I seem to remember that a lot of the opposition boycotted the election.

Legitimacy!

77 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:00:08pm

re: #63 dragonath

“My own life. I will stand against any attempt to shed a drop of blood… I will stand guardian to legitimacy.”

A little late with that, isn’t he, considering people are already dead…

78 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:00:18pm

re: #74 NJDhockeyfan

Now he’s done it, the shoes are coming out.

[Embedded content]

I called it again!

littlegreenfootballs.com

79 abolitionist  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:00:38pm

re: #74 NJDhockeyfan

Now he’s done it, the shoes are coming out.

They’re just trying to tell him to answer his phone. /

80 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:01:44pm

Uh oh

81 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:01:49pm

re: #79 abolitionist

They’re just trying to tell him to answer his phone. /

Image: maxwell_smart_with_shoe_phone.jpg

82 dragonath  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:03:16pm

The translator sounded like he said Chief Prostituter…

83 Lidane  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:03:43pm

re: #74 NJDhockeyfan

Isn’t that basically the equivalent of flipping him off? I remember reading somewhere that showing the soles of your shoes is highly insulting and disrespectful in the ME.

84 dragonath  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:04:18pm

“The media”… doing his best Nixon impression now.

85 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:04:19pm

re: #82 dragonath

The translator sounded like he said Chief Prostituter…

difference without a distinction?

OR,,, confirmation bias on YOUR part!!
:)

///

86 thedopefishlives  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:05:08pm

It would be interesting to record Morsi’s speech and play it back alongside Mubarak. Maybe he would get just how like his old nemesis he is now sounding.

…NAHHH.

87 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:05:16pm

re: #83 Lidane

Isn’t that basically the equivalent of flipping him off? I remember reading somewhere that showing the soles of your shoes is highly insulting and disrespectful in the ME.

yup

Youtube Video

88 dragonath  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:05:24pm

“Basically you should just do everything on my terms”

89 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:06:54pm

re: #88 dragonath

“Basically you should just do everything on my terms”

More like “Just give me six more months” (((so I can loot the treasury before heading out to Zurich)))

90 Targetpractice  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:07:40pm

re: #86 thedopefishlives

It would be interesting to record Morsi’s speech and play it back alongside Mubarak. Maybe he would get just how like his old nemesis he is now sounding.

…NAHHH.

A lot of autocrats end up sounding the same way: “I’m the one in charge, my legitimacy stems from the people, I’m beloved by the people, the Army cannot disobey me!”

91 dragonath  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:08:00pm

This is a more meandering speech than the one Clint Eastwood gave last fall…

92 Kragar  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:08:10pm

Creationist preacher interrupts atheist monument celebration

The group American Atheists unveiled the 1,500-pound granite bench on Saturday at the Bradford County courthouse in Starke, Florida. but the celebration was interrupted when Eric Hovind of Creation Today climbed on top of the monument and began yelling at the crowd.

“I’d like to that the tolerance of the American Atheists for providing a platform to proclaim the truth that Jesus Christ is Lord,” he sarcastically shouted. “To the glory of God the father, thank you very much for being tolerant of other religions. Thank you so much for providing a platform to teach the truth.”

I’m sure douchenozzle would have no problem with someone standing up at every sermon he gives and telling the crowd, “Everything this guys is about to say is utter and complete bullshit. Thank you.”

93 Lidane  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:08:24pm

re: #89 sattv4u2

More like “Just give me six more months”

Revolution by Friedman units!

///

94 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:08:41pm
95 dragonath  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:09:18pm

“The life after is very important”

do tell

96 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:10:04pm

re: #83 Lidane

Isn’t that basically the equivalent of flipping him off? I remember reading somewhere that showing the soles of your shoes is highly insulting and disrespectful in the ME.

Here ya go…

97 Gus  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:10:59pm
98 dragonath  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:11:55pm

re: #97 Gus

He just said it 5 times in the last half minute.

99 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:12:14pm

I’ll barf if he ends with a rousing chorus of KumByYa!!

100 Lidane  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:12:49pm

Meanwhile in Texas:

101 Gus  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:13:00pm

re: #95 dragonath

“The life after is very important”

do tell

Besides, what’s the big deal! So life sucks in Egypt now but when you die there’s the cool afterlife to enjoy. It’ll get better after your kick the bucket.

102 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:13:16pm

he declares in the name of (wait for it) LEGITIMACY!!

103 Gus  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:13:37pm
104 Gus  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:13:49pm

Good follow for this: @RawyaRageh

105 Lidane  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:13:51pm

re: #102 sattv4u2

he declares in the name of (wait for it) LEGITIMACY!!

106 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:13:57pm

re: #101 Gus

Besides, what’s the big deal! So life sucks in Egypt now but when you die there’s the cool afterlife to enjoy. It’ll get better after your kick the bucket.

Problem is, many of them can;t afford a bucket now!

107 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:14:55pm

Hari Kari?

108 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:14:59pm

”,, we are ready to die for our nation,,”

Ummm, be careful what you wish for there, Sparky

109 dragonath  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:15:04pm

We sacrifice our lives for the homeland… starting with me”

110 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:15:34pm
111 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:16:23pm

re: #107 Killgore Trout

Hari Kari?

What does the Chicago Cubs old announcer have to do with this?
Image: about_harry_pic1.jpg

112 Targetpractice  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:16:33pm

Oh yeah, this is about to get very messy.

113 dragonath  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:16:48pm

“Legitimacy…”

Still trying to poison the opposition by alcohol.

114 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:17:11pm

This should just about do. It. It’s about to get very ugly.

115 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:17:28pm

re: #30 sattv4u2

”,,, remnants of the former regime,,,,”

Did I call it, or what

He blames Bush.

116 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:17:31pm

re: #108 sattv4u2

”,, we are ready to die for our nation,,”

Ummm, be careful what you wish for there, Sparky

I really don’t see much chance of him getting killed. Maybe the rhetoric about being willing to die is generic religious rhetoric attempting to gain the respect of the people.

117 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:17:35pm

re: #111 sattv4u2

What does the Chicago Cubs old announcer have to do with this?
Image: about_harry_pic1.jpg

Holy cow!

118 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:17:55pm

Interesting rumor…

119 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:18:48pm

re: #116 Killgore Trout

I really don’t see much chance of him getting killed. Maybe the rhetoric about being willing to die is generic religious rhetoric attempting to gain the respect of the people.

Depends

If the army comes to remove him and he has some MB fanatics around, they might “martyr” themselves and he may become collateral damage

120 Gus  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:18:52pm

re: #118 Charles Johnson

Interesting rumor…

[Embedded content]

Emergency landing is what I heard.

122 dragonath  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:18:54pm

“True rotation of power”

Curly:
Woo woo woo woo!

123 Targetpractice  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:19:28pm

re: #118 Charles Johnson

Interesting rumor…

[Embedded content]

If true, then any thoughts of ever seeing the outside of a prison cell just evaporated. Unless he’s hoping that landing in Vienna will allow him to beg for asylum.

124 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:19:40pm

re: #118 Charles Johnson

Interesting rumor…

[Embedded content]

I think NJD had something about that upthread

littlegreenfootballs.com

125 dragonath  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:19:41pm

Well, the army gave this guy enough rope to hang himself with.

126 AlexRogan  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:20:14pm

re: #41 sattv4u2

When you only have one horse, you ride it till the (bitter) end

And beat the carcass until nothing is left but the skeleton.

127 dragonath  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:20:23pm
128 dragonath  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:20:47pm

Scripture reading!

129 dragonath  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:21:00pm

LEGITIMACY!

130 Lidane  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:21:16pm
131 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:21:38pm

re: #116 Killgore Trout

I really don’t see much chance of him getting killed. Maybe the rhetoric about being willing to die is generic religious rhetoric attempting to gain the respect of the people.

We could ask Moammar.

132 Lidane  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:21:56pm

re: #118 Charles Johnson

133 Ming  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:22:00pm

re: #3 dragonath

At this point, I wonder how enthusiastic Snowden is about Russia. The guy didn’t show any kind of allegiance to America and likely has even less for Russia.

Last thing Putin needs is a loose cannon destroying established intelligence protocols.

I think Putin appreciates that. Russia and America cooperate from time to time, e.g. when the Boston Marathon bombing turned out to have roots in Chechnya.

I’m confident that Putin realizes that Snowden is a potential liability to anyone who takes him in (including the NSA itself, when they hired him). He’s capable of wild swings (e.g. he said leakers should be “shot in the balls”, then became a leaker himself). He feels “betrayed” that Obama didn’t place major restrictions on the NSA; Putin knows that Snowden won’t be enthusiastic about Russia for very long. And talk about “wild swings”, Snowden couldn’t even maintain his family and romantic relationships.

We seem to be converging on a bottom line here, that it’s not in any country’s self-interest to “harbor” Snowden, for any significant time period.

134 dragonath  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:22:09pm

Speech ends… and Al Jazeera cuts to the protestors setting off fireworks.

lol

135 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:22:15pm

And on that note, going to make dinner, take my nap, then the long quiet drive in to work

BB(very)L

136 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:23:36pm
137 thedopefishlives  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:25:47pm

re: #136 Charles Johnson

A stowaway, eh?

138 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:26:34pm

re: #137 thedopefishlives

A stowaway, eh?

Did he bring his own towel?

139 Targetpractice  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:27:08pm

Austria’s one of those countries that requires asylum requests to be made in person on sovereign soil. Wonder if that’s Snowden’s plan, either get to Bolivia or have the plane brought down in a country that he can immediately beg for asylum in.

140 dragonath  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:27:11pm
141 thedopefishlives  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:27:30pm

re: #138 Decatur Deb

Did he bring his own towel?

He’s going to need a lot more than a towel if he’s going to pull off some sort of miraculous escape.

142 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:28:24pm
143 Targetpractice  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:29:26pm

re: #142 NJDhockeyfan

[Embedded content]

Am I reading that right? Morsi supporters used the period during his speech, when people would be focusing on said speech, to open fire on protestors?

144 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:30:09pm

re: #139 Targetpractice

Austria’s one of those countries that requires asylum requests to be made in person on sovereign soil. Wonder if that’s Snowden’s plan, either get to Bolivia or have the plane brought down in a country that he can immediately beg for asylum in.

Maybe but I think his escape plan unraveled once he got to Moscow. If the flight is being diverted with him on it I doubt he’s happy about it.

145 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:31:49pm

re: #143 Targetpractice

Am I reading that right? Morsi supporters used the period during his speech, when people would be focusing on said speech, to open fire on protestors?

He gave his supporters the green light during his speech. I guess they couldn’t wait.

146 ProTARDISLiberal  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:33:08pm

re: #143 Targetpractice

re: #145 NJDhockeyfan

This is probably justifiable reason for a coup. Also, I think Abdullah II in Jordan needs to proscribe the Muslim Brotherhood, for the sake of the people living there.

147 Targetpractice  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:33:53pm

re: #144 Killgore Trout

Maybe but I think his escape plan unraveled once he got to Moscow. If the flight is being diverted with him on it I doubt he’s happy about it.

Considering his flight from HK, my guess is this is more of Assange’s work rather than Snowden’s. Which leaves me wondering how he swung that with Morales.

148 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:40:57pm

re: #141 thedopefishlives

He’s going to need a lot more than a towel if he’s going to pull off some sort of miraculous escape.

Time to kick in the Infinite Improbability Drive, then.

149 gunnison  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:50:31pm

wtf?
re: #136 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

What?
Rerouted on “suspicion” that Snowden is on board?
wtf could that possibly mean?
On whose suspicion? The Russians?
The US?

No way he could be on the plane without the Bolivian security people knowing about it, right? Or can any swinging dick just wander onto the president’s plane?

If he’s not on the plane, why would the Bolivian president agree to be re-routed? Why would he not just say “he aint’ here” and just keep going. Who has the authority to re-route a diplomatic flight, ‘cos that what it has to be, right?

If he is on the plane, surely the Bolivians have to know about it, they must have let him board for crissakes, so why would they just not keep going? What are they gonna do, shoot down a president’s fucking plane.

I’m not getting this.

150 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:51:41pm

re: #149 gunnison

Unless they really had a caution light come on.

151 CuriousLurker  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:55:35pm

re: #149 gunnison

If he is on the plane, surely the Bolivians have to know about it, they must have let him board for crissakes, so why would they just not keep going? What are they gonna do, shoot down a president’s fucking plane.

I’m not getting this.

Maybe they never intended to take him all the way to Bolivia.

152 gunnison  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 4:03:11pm

re: #151 CuriousLurker

Maybe they never intended to take him all the way to Bolivia.

Well there’s a thought.
So why the fuss about “re-routing”? Why not just land wherever (Austria? wtf?) and do whatever they had in mind? It’s not as if they’d have to share how they filed the flight plan with Snowden, they could have just told him anything.

The whole thing beggars belief, but then this whole thing has been in circus territory for a while anyway, so who knows?

153 CuriousLurker  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 4:05:45pm

re: #152 gunnison

Well there’s a thought.
So why the fuss about “re-routing”? Why not just land wherever (Austria? wtf?) and do whatever they had in mind? It’s not as if they’d have to share how they filed the flight plan with Snowden, they could have just told him anything.

Deniability? The whole thing is starting to feel like bad theater.

The whole thing beggars belief, but then this whole thing has been in circus territory for a while anyway, so who knows?

Yeah, it’s getting curiouser and curiouser.

154 AlexRogan  Tue, Jul 2, 2013 4:41:31pm

re: #133 Ming

I think Putin appreciates that. Russia and America cooperate from time to time, e.g. when the Boston Marathon bombing turned out to have roots in Chechnya.

I’m confident that Putin realizes that Snowden is a potential liability to anyone who takes him in (including the NSA itself, when they hired him). He’s capable of wild swings (e.g. he said leakers should be “shot in the balls”, then became a leaker himself). He feels “betrayed” that Obama didn’t place major restrictions on the NSA; Putin knows that Snowden won’t be enthusiastic about Russia for very long. And talk about “wild swings”, Snowden couldn’t even maintain his family and romantic relationships.

We seem to be converging on a bottom line here, that it’s not in any country’s self-interest to “harbor” Snowden, for any significant time period.

Snowden’s getting “airlocked”, in a geopolitical sense.

155 jaywal  Wed, Jul 3, 2013 1:00:48am

DER SPIEGEL is not acting responsible - not in general and certainly not in this case. In their online edition they came up with the headline “NSA überwacht 500 Millionen Verbindungen in Deutschland” wich means: The NSA is monitoring 500 million connections - phone and internet - inside of Germany, i.e. they claimed that the NSA is recording content on a massive scale inside of Germany. This is not even what they were claiming in their written edition. It was plain scarmongering and besides that a simple conspiracy theory. DER SPIEGEL is not a bit more responsible than the Guardian or Greenwald. Don’t fool yourself! And the scariest thing was that Germany went nuts over this headline without asking any questions about substance to it.

156 jaywal  Wed, Jul 3, 2013 1:01:58am

re: #1 Sol Berdinowitz

read #155

157 jaywal  Wed, Jul 3, 2013 1:06:01am

re: #54 Charles Johnson

read #155

158 jaywal  Wed, Jul 3, 2013 1:11:31am

And the two co-authors Holger Stark and Marcel Rosenbach of the original article

spiegel.de

are staunch Assange fan boys:

dradio.de


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