David Barton Explains How Teachers Can Sneak Religious Indoctrination Into Public Schools

Fanatical, and sneaky too
Wingnuts • Views: 21,892

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The worst thing about right wing religious fanatics like David Barton is that they’re sneaky and dishonest. Barton has made a career out of peddling lies about American history to the gullible, and in this new video from Right Wing Watch he’s actually advising a room full of students at Ohio Christian University how to sneak Christian indoctrination into public schools.

Notice that the student who asks the question wants to know how to do this without getting fired … so he’s well aware it’s unethical and dishonest (not to mention, possibly illegal and certainly unconstitutional) for a teacher to do this, but he wants to know how to do it anyway. Yikes.

Barton suggested that the student get a job as an English or History teacher because that would allow him to sneak in discussions of the Bible or read Christian prayers in the classroom under the guise of simply teaching these subjects.

For instance, Barton recommend that, as an English teacher, he could have his students read the works of Shakespeare, which Barton claimed contain quotes from over two thousand Bible verses. “So what you can do,” Barton said, “is look up that phrase he just said; well, that’s right out of Matthew 7:23. So you’re just simply using English Lit.”

He could do the same as a History teacher, Barton said, suggesting that he could teach his students about Founding Father Thomas McKean who used to deliver altar calls in the courtroom when he served as a judge. “You can read an altar call,” Barton said, “here’s what was done in 1779 in Thomas McKean’s courtroom. It’s an altar call, but all you’re doing is reading history.”

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159 comments
1 Kragar  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 2:48:48pm

David Barton is an addlepated homunculus of the malicious variety.

2 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 2:49:36pm

I would add that this is an unethical way to minister to people.

That can’t be stressed enough.

3 thedopefishlives  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 2:50:26pm

re: #2 The Ghost of a Flea

I would add that this is an unethical way to minister to people.

That can’t be stressed enough.

Yeah, but JESUS! Who cares if it’s unethical?

4 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 2:51:13pm

re: #3 thedopefishlives

Yeah, but JESUS! Who cares if it’s unethical?

You mean “aside from Jesus. who would care?”

5 Kragar  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 2:51:31pm

re: #2 The Ghost of a Flea

I would add that this is an unethical way to minister to people.

That can’t be stressed enough.

Barton doesn’t do ethics.

6 thedopefishlives  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 2:52:19pm

re: #4 The Ghost of a Flea

You mean “aside from Jesus. who would care?”

The cognitive dissonance involved in the whole “I’m going to do something completely unethical and borderline illegal in order to minister to American kids” is staggering.

7 Kragar  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 2:52:37pm

Evangelical Christians have as much to do with Jesus as Ren Fairs have to do with the Renaissance.

8 klys  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 2:52:55pm

There was a point in my life where I considered myself devoutly Christian.

And I would have been just as disgusted by this then as I am now. Fuckers.

9 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 2:53:01pm

Am I wrong to want vermin like Barton eliminated from public discourse?

They add absolutely no value to the social fabric.

10 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 2:53:58pm

re: #5 Kragar

Barton doesn’t do ethics.

He also doesn’t do history, democracy, or basic human decency.

He’s the propagandist of a fascist movement that claims to be Christian.

11 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 2:54:14pm

If one is convinced that one’s cause is inherently just and righteous, then they will stop at nothing to promote it. We have all seen the consequences of this sort of thinking.

12 Kragar  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 2:54:27pm

re: #8 klys

There was a point in my life where I considered myself devoutly Christian.

And I would have been just as disgusted by this then as I am now. Fuckers.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again.

I used to have a generally positive view of Christianity until I started listening to Christians like Barton or Fischer.

13 klys  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 2:55:47pm

re: #12 Kragar

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again.

I used to have a generally positive view of Christianity until I started listening to Christians like Barton or Fischer.

I try to remember they’re not all like that.

On the other hand, there is a reason I use the past tense describing that part of my life. Not entirely that, but…

14 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 2:55:48pm

re: #9 Justanotherhuman

Am I wrong to want vermin like Barton eliminated from public discourse?

They add absolutely no value to the social fabric.

He detracts from that value actually since he increases distrust of Christians since he appears to be a leader/spokesperson for their movement without catching much obvious flack from other Christian leaders for his dishonest, dishonorable, and unethical behavior.

15 thedopefishlives  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 2:55:50pm

re: #8 klys

There was a point in my life where I considered myself devoutly Christian.

And I would have been just as disgusted by this then as I am now. Fuckers.

I still do consider myself a devout believer and guys like these make me ashamed to say it.

16 dog philosopher  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 2:56:24pm

For instance, Barton recommended that

tell me again about the rules of polygamy and the treatment of slaves

17 Zamb  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 2:57:45pm
Notice that the student who asks the question wants to know how to do this without getting fired … so he’s well aware it’s unethical and dishonest for a teacher to do this, but he wants to know how to do it anyway.

I don’t think these people do know it’s unethical. They have a firm belief that they as true Christians have a monopoly on truth and virtue. Any attempt to keep them from pushing this view on others is seen as an evil, thus to many people pushing God into the public schools isn’t wrong, it is in fact the highest good.

18 Kragar  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 2:58:13pm
19 Kragar  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 2:59:31pm

re: #17 Zamb

I don’t think these people do know it’s unethical. They have a firm belief that they as true Christians have a monopoly on truth and virtue. Any attempt to keep them from pushing this view on others is seen as an evil, thus to many people pushing God into the public schools isn’t wrong, it is in fact the highest good.

To them, the fact they can’t turn every school into a indoctrination center for their religious beliefs is the real crime.

Obviously, they are the real victims in all this.
///

20 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:00:40pm

re: #7 Kragar

Evangelical Christians have as much to do with Jesus as Ren Fairs have to do with the Renaissance.

At least the Ren Fair people understand that.

21 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:00:43pm

Obliquely relevant, and Fred Clark does put things together in very eloquent terms:

American evangelicalism is defined by political tribalism

Let me explain why, to global evangelicals, it appears as though white evangelicals in America are captive to civil religion and “a syncretistic concoction of Christian teaching, Republican partisanship, capitalistic-worship, and social Darwinism.”

It’s because white evangelicals in America actually are captive to civil religion and “a syncretistic concoction of Christian teaching, Republican partisanship, capitalistic-worship, and social Darwinism.”

Evangelicalism in America is shaped, primarily, by political tribalism. Not by doctrine. Not by the Bible. Not by a conversionist spirituality that emphasizes a personal relationship with God. Not by admiration for Billy Graham, or by an aversion to drinking, dancing and R-rated movies. Not by love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.

22 klys  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:00:49pm

re: #15 thedopefishlives

I still do consider myself a devout believer and guys like these make me ashamed to say it.

I don’t talk about my spiritual life here much because I have always been of the opinion that, for me, it is an intensely private thing.

I wrestled a lot with faith in high school and had some friends who provided guidance and support. Some of them are still Christians. Others less so. We’ve all walked different paths in life.

I do my best not to judge anyone else’s walk in faith and spirituality as long as they are not trying to foist their beliefs on me in any form, and I have always felt that way, Christian or not - and most of the Lizards here of all takes on religion seem to feel the same way, for which I am grateful and one reason I am willing to talk about this here at all.

On the other hand, I have absolutely no use for people who want laws based on their religious beliefs without consideration of others who may feel differently. That includes atheists who consider atheism the only one true way (and that is not, by and large, the folks who participate in the main pages so please do not read it that way, but I don’t want any group to be left out).

23 klys  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:01:46pm

re: #20 William Barnett-Lewis

At least the Ren Fair people understand that.

I wish I could upping you more for that. Folks who do Renfaire know that they’re not reproducing life in the Renaissance exactly.

You want that, you talk to the SCA, and even then…

24 Amory Blaine  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:02:20pm

“Replace all historic figure names with the Jesus.”

25 CuriousLurker  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:02:40pm

re: #13 klys

I try to remember they’re not all like that.

On the other hand, there is a reason I use the past tense describing that part of my life. Not entirely that, but…

Yep, there are a lot of decent, caring, humble Christians out there. Unfortunately, just like with Muslims or any other group—including atheists—the fundies/fanatics are usually the most loudly obnoxious and therefore get the most attention, dragging everyone else down in their wake.

26 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:03:00pm

I do have to say that my years in Catholic grade school were not wasted. I learned two very important things:
1: The Catholic Church is full of crap.
2: Whoever this Jesus person may or may not have been, he was a really nice guy for the most part and I like to think that, even though I am now an atheist, if he really did/does exist, he would approve of how I live and treat my fellow beings on this earth.

27 Zamb  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:03:27pm

re: #19 Kragar

Yup seem that way from the few I still interact with. It’s really hard to discuss why having religion taught in public schools is a bad thing when your opponent is convinced that they have the absolute truth.

28 BongCrodny  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:03:38pm

Don’t recall Jesus ever saying “Blessed are the liars.”

29 dog philosopher  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:03:51pm

re: #17 Zamb

I don’t think these people do know it’s unethical. They have a firm belief that they as true Christians have a monopoly on truth and virtue. Any attempt to keep them from pushing this view on others is seen as an evil, thus to many people pushing God into the public schools isn’t wrong, it is in fact the highest good.

he ought to be careful since he might end up encouraging people to read the bible for themselves and then they might find out it doesn’t say what barton tells them it does

30 thedopefishlives  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:03:57pm

re: #22 klys

I don’t know how much of my history you’ve read in these threads, but I’ve told the others here: My folks are hardcore evangelicals and I was raised in that culture. I used to be a hard right-winger, a rabid Rush Limbaugh listener, absolutely persuaded that abortion was the ultimate evil and that the only way to rescue America was more God. Then I went to college and got out from under the bubble, and my eyes were really opened to all sorts of stripes of moderate/liberal Christianity. Eventually my maturity caught up to me and I started to temper my beliefs and my political views. And then I found LGF and the rest is history.

31 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:04:38pm

re: #18 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Oh, fuck that said in his client’s defense bullshit. He should be sanctioned by the bar.

32 Amory Blaine  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:06:38pm

re: #28 BongCrodny

It’s in the next revision.

//

33 klys  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:07:29pm

re: #30 thedopefishlives

I don’t know how much of my history you’ve read in these threads, but I’ve told the others here: My folks are hardcore evangelicals and I was raised in that culture. I used to be a hard right-winger, a rabid Rush Limbaugh listener, absolutely persuaded that abortion was the ultimate evil and that the only way to rescue America was more God. Then I went to college and got out from under the bubble, and my eyes were really opened to all sorts of stripes of moderate/liberal Christianity. Eventually my maturity caught up to me and I started to temper my beliefs and my political views. And then I found LGF and the rest is history.

I am pretty sure that, for all my mother says she is a registered Democrat, the fact that I have turned out so liberal may be somewhat of a disappointment to my parents.

Of course, I don’t think things like providing basic food to the poor and advocating every person’s right to make decisions for themselves and equality for women and gays is all that liberal, but that’s the state of the country, so…

I just see it as perfectly consistent with the example Jesus set. He did not judge, he loved. What is hard for me is the apparent cognitive dissonance between what my parents taught me and what they themselves vote into practice.

34 Kragar  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:08:00pm

I’m a devout Agnostic.

I believe in the possibility of an All Powerful Creator, who created the universe billions of years ago, using observable scientific phenomenon, and that any person or religion that claims only they know the path to salvation is full of shit.

35 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:08:46pm

It’s really funny/odd/strange that I know atheists who are more Christian in their actions than the vast majority of identified Christians.

36 thedopefishlives  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:10:24pm

re: #33 klys

Yeah, there’s a lot of that on my end, too. I don’t get how my parents think that voting straight-line Republican is doing anything to help the poor, the downtrodden, the “sinners” that the Jesus I know would be hanging out with if He were here. I’ve said this before in other dumbass-Christian-themed threads, the real Jesus would be hanging out down at the bar on Friday nights, tattooed, knocking a few back with the bikers.

37 klys  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:10:43pm

re: #34 Kragar

I’m a devout Agnostic.

I believe in the possibility of an All Powerful Creator, who created the universe billions of years ago, using observable scientific phenomenon, and that anyone person or religion that claims only they know the path to salvation is full of shit.

As any scifi or fantasy author who has engaged in world-building knows, you can’t just make shit up as you go along, there needs to be rules in place first.

38 psddluva4evah  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:11:45pm

Hmm, remember when the toxicology reports on that Australian runner who got shot by those kids came out, wasn’t it a shame what drugs that runner had in his system…oh wait they didn’t release toxicology reports on the VICTIM of the crime??? Hmm wonder what makes that victim so different than this one…

“@BlackCanseco: This a real pattern, tho. Black person killed by non-Black and they do a toxicology on them. Must be their fault they got killed.”

“@BlackCanseco: Toxicology reports in these cases are about criminalizing Blackfolk even in death.”

“@JamilSmith: Unsure how this matters in the homicide investigation, unless Renisha McBride being drunk meant she deserved to die:

Renisha McBride Update: Teen had .22 blood alcohol content when she was shot to death by Mich. homeowner

39 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:13:48pm

re: #18 Kragar

[Embedded content]

::head:: ::desk::

40 dog philosopher  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:14:01pm

re: #34 Kragar

I’m a devout Agnostic.

I believe in the possibility of an All Powerful Creator, who created the universe billions of years ago, using observable scientific phenomenon, and that anyone person or religion that claims only they know the path to salvation is full of shit.

since jesus never claimed to be anything but jewish, he wouldn’t have believed in “salvation”, since nothing like that exists in judaism

jews don’t believe in original sin, and in judaism there is no being saved and having eternal life in heaven nor being damned, and no hell for that matter, merely pleasing g-d more or less with your actions, and feeling remorse and making amends for your sins

it has been said that in judaism you have sins, whereas in christianity you have Sin

41 Kragar  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:14:08pm

re: #37 klys

As any scifi or fantasy author who has engaged in world-building knows, you can’t just make shit up as you go along, there needs to be rules in place first.

“So, you believe in an all powerful creator, capable of anything, right?
“Yes, I do”
“So why couldn’t he have made the universe billions of years ago and let evolution take its course? For that matter, who can say he didn’t just create the whole thing last week and just made us all think its been around longer?”
“Now you’re just being silly.”

An actual conversation I’ve had.

Omnipotent Deity, some rules and restrictions may apply.

42 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:14:47pm

Another GOPer bites the dust.

Montco GOP Leader Bob Kerns Resigns After Sex Assault Accusation

nbcphiladelphia.com

43 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:15:10pm

re: #37 klys

As any scifi or fantasy author who has engaged in world-building knows, you can’t just make shit up as you go along, there needs to be rules in place first.

Now, there you have put your finger on it. Barton & Fischer are just not cut out to be the next L. Ron Hubbard, much as they may dream of that…

44 Kragar  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:16:39pm

re: #40 dog philosopher

since jesus never claimed to be anything but jewish, he wouldn’t have believed in “salvation”, since nothing like that exists in judaism

jews don’t believe in original sin, and in judaism there is no being saved and having eternal life in heaven nor being damned, and no hell for that matter, merely pleasing g-d more or less with your actions, and feeling remorse and making amends for your sins

it has been said that in judaism you have sins, whereas in christianity you have Sin

The hardest thing about Original sin is constantly having to come up with new ones.

“Honey, have you seen my hip waders and that cage of Marmots I had delivered? And where is my electric razor?”

45 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:16:45pm

re: #15 thedopefishlives

I still do consider myself a devout believer and guys like these make me ashamed to say it.

I think the difference between them and you is that you actually believe. All they believe in is $$$$

46 Amory Blaine  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:17:28pm

Book reports on the Left Behind series.

47 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:17:34pm

re: #17 Zamb

I don’t think these people do know it’s unethical. They have a firm belief that they as true Christians have a monopoly on truth and virtue. Any attempt to keep them from pushing this view on others is seen as an evil, thus to many people pushing God into the public schools isn’t wrong, it is in fact the highest good.

Mormons don’t have a monopoly on “lying for Jesus”.

48 Targetpractice  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:18:11pm

re: #46 Amory Blaine

Book reports on the Left Behind series.

“The Stand was a better book. Shorter too.”

49 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:18:16pm

re: #45 Backwoods_Sleuth

I think the difference between them and you is that you actually believe. All they believe in is $$$$

I think they believe the world should be set up such up such that they get to hurt people they disapprove of.

50 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:20:04pm

re: #28 BongCrodny

Don’t recall Jesus every saying “Blessed are the liars.”

That would have been included in the revised “Sermon on the Remount”
/

51 Kragar  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:21:08pm
52 thedopefishlives  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:21:17pm

re: #45 Backwoods_Sleuth

I think the difference between them and you is that you actually believe. All they believe in is $$$$

Honestly, some of them do truly believe the bullshit they’re spewing from their mouths. Professional trolls like Bryan Fischer, maybe not, but there are many so-called spokesmen for Christ who are genuine - genuinely stupid. They just read the Bible the way they’ve been taught to, preach the derp the way it’s been handed down to them, and never really examine what they’re reading or saying to see if they make any sense with each other.

53 Political Atheist  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:22:01pm

re: #12 Kragar

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again.

I used to have a generally positive view of Christianity until I started listening to Christians like Barton or Fischer.

Please don’t let the fringe of today define a religion of two millennium and a billion members. Some just wear the cloak to make money. Thats not ministering, it’s fraud.

54 Amory Blaine  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:22:02pm

Nice marmot.

55 Targetpractice  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:22:22pm

re: #51 Kragar

[Embedded content]

“Back a little further…little further…perfect.”

56 dog philosopher  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:22:50pm

today in fox news webpage front, both these stories:

The Fix Falls Flat - Lawmakers say Obama’s offer to let those who lost coverage renew their plans doesn’t fix the real problem: OBAMACARE

AND

Patriot-News retracts 1863 editorial calling Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address ‘silly’

When it comes to correcting the record about a timeless speech, no retraction is too late.

One-hundred and fifty years after Abraham Lincoln passionately appealed for the preservation of the union in the Gettysburg Address, the Patriot-News of central Pennsylvania, known back then as the Patriot & Union, is retreating from its stance in 1863 that Abe’s Civil War speech was “silly.”

“In an editorial about President Abraham Lincoln’s speech delivered Nov. 19, 1863, in Gettysburg, the Patriot & Union failed to recognize its momentous importance, timeless eloquence, and lasting significance,” the paper wrote on its editorial page Thursday. “The Patriot-News regrets the error.”

coincidence?

I THINK NOT!!!

57 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:23:41pm

re: #28 BongCrodny

Don’t recall Jesus every saying “Blessed are the liars.”

It’s in conservapedia’s conservative translation. It’s instead of blessed are the peacemakers.

58 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:24:22pm

re: #51 Kragar

[Embedded content]

That’s it. I’m getting the goddamned little Samsung out of the box and learnin’ how!

59 CuriousLurker  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:25:01pm

re: #22 klys

I don’t talk about my spiritual life here much because I have always been of the opinion that, for me, it is an intensely private thing.

I wrestled a lot with faith in high school and had some friends who provided guidance and support. Some of them are still Christians. Others less so. We’ve all walked different paths in life.

I do my best not to judge anyone else’s walk in faith and spirituality as long as they are not trying to foist their beliefs on me in any form, and I have always felt that way, Christian or not - and most of the Lizards here of all takes on religion seem to feel the same way, for which I am grateful and one reason I am willing to talk about this here at all.

On the other hand, I have absolutely no use for people who want laws based on their religious beliefs without consideration of others who may feel differently. That includes atheists who consider atheism the only one true way (and that is not, by and large, the folks who participate in the main pages so please do not read it that way, but I don’t want any group to be left out).

THIS. I wish I had more up-dings to give you for it.

60 Political Atheist  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:25:57pm

re: #54 Amory Blaine

Nice marmot.

Nice marmot with a nice camera. Prolly pining for a 5D tho…

61 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:26:22pm

re: #48 Targetpractice

“The Stand was a better book. Shorter too.”

jeez, every time I saw a Sarah Palin rally back in 2008, it looked just like a Randall Flagg gathering in Vegas.
Yes, it was creep factor xbazillion.

62 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:27:19pm

re: #40 dog philosopher

since jesus never claimed to be anything but jewish, he wouldn’t have believed in “salvation”, since nothing like that exists in judaism

jews don’t believe in original sin, and in judaism there is no being saved and having eternal life in heaven nor being damned, and no hell for that matter, merely pleasing g-d more or less with your actions, and feeling remorse and making amends for your sins

it has been said that in judaism you have sins, whereas in christianity you have Sin

My own already pretty liberal Christianity has been profoundly influenced by my studies of Judaism. Funny that, eh?

63 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:27:39pm

OK, the camera was easy. Now I gotta get the charger out…..

64 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:28:20pm

re: #44 Kragar

The hardest thing about Original sin is constantly having to come up with new ones.

“Honey, have you seen my hip waders and that cage of Marmots I had delivered? And where is my electric razor?”

I just smile and say Rule 34.

65 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:28:46pm

…and install the battery…

maybe I should wash my hands…

66 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:30:54pm

oh crap. It takes a micro SD chip. I don’t have one. Oh, well, I can charge it for now.

67 klys  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:34:14pm

re: #64 William Barnett-Lewis

I just smile and say Rule 34.

BRAIN BLEACH. BRAIN BLEACH.

68 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:34:40pm

In other news, today in history:

69 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:34:54pm

President Obama picks surgeon general nominee Vivek Hallegere Murthy

Read more: politico.com

70 Amory Blaine  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:37:27pm

re: #66 wrenchwench

Busted cell phones in the street are an excellent source.

71 Political Atheist  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:38:50pm

re: #22 klys

re: #59 CuriousLurker

I like to confound the “our way is the only way” religious with this.

I regard them as multiple attempts by a merciful god to keep in touch with humanity and offer a kind lesson or two. Of course that may all be just my superstition. But it makes them think at least for a moment. If I’m wrong I have used false logic to treat others with respect. I can live with that.

That and this to evangelicals-Don’t bother me with tales of hell after death. When humans forget their humanity, we make hell on earth, and need not fear afterlife hell at all. It will be no worse than a war or refugee camp.

When we act right we find ways to make heaven on earth. Good families and some success in life’s challenges and throw in some appreciation for natural splendor. Sunsets, mountains, seas.

72 klys  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:39:00pm

The last vestiges of sunset are fading outside the window now; oranges with a hint of yellow before the blues set in. Still relatively cloudy although I’m starting to get the hint of things on the ground - the clusters of light that represent civilization but from up here look more like a handful of stars poured out in rivulets, pooling on their way too and from and flowing out towards the sea.

Even flyover country is beautiful, in its way. I try not to forget it.

73 Ace-o-aces  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:39:35pm
For instance, Barton recommend that, as an English teacher, he could have his students read the works of Shakespeare, which Barton claimed contain quotes from over two thousand Bible verses. “So what you can do,” Barton said, “is look up that phrase he just said; well, that’s right out of Matthew 7:23. So you’re just simply using English Lit.”

Does anyone know WTF he is talking about?

74 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:40:08pm

re: #70 Amory Blaine

Busted cell phones in the street are an excellent source.

I’ll keep an eye out…. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a busted cell phone in the street.

75 BongCrodny  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:41:40pm

re: #57 William Barnett-Lewis

It’s in conservapedia’s conservative translation. It’s instead of blessed are the peacemakers.

I guess it’s already been done.

Conservative Bible Project

This article from Salon is a hoot. One of the examples they cite is Conservapedia’s editors changing:

It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.”

to:

It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a man who cares only for money to enter into the kingdom of God.”

76 team_fukit  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:44:59pm

re: #73 Ace-o-aces

I wonder what Barton would say if an English teacher used Shakespeare’s _Othello_ to discuss the culture of Moors and the North African Islam of the 16th/17th century? It’d have about as much correlation as what he’s suggesting.

77 b_sharp  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:47:30pm

re: #73 Ace-o-aces

Does anyone know WTF he is talking about?

I don’t know, but I do know that simply reading Bible passages contained in Shakespeare’s work will not contribute to indoctrination by themselves. Anyone trying to use them to indoctrinate will have to go much farther into the Biblical meaning of them as opposed to the Shakespearean meaning and by doing so cross the line between teaching English literature and teaching religion.

78 CuriousLurker  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:47:39pm

re: #60 Political Atheist

Nice marmot with a nice camera. Prolly pining for a 5D tho…

I was thinking of you over the past few days as I decided to buy a new camera. I’d really love to have a DSLR, but can’t justify the expense, so I was seesawing between one of those “bridge” cameras with a super zoom.

I finally narrowed it down to a choice between the Nikon L820 and the slightly more advanced (and more expensive) P520. I ended up going for the L820 as part of a bundle because at $210 (tax included, free shipping) the deal was just too good to pass up. Also it uses AA batteries, which is a big plus in my book.

Anyway, the UPS guy just delivered it about 10 minutes ago, so EEEEK! ;-)

P.S. If I was going to splurge on an entry-level DSLR, it probably would’ve been the Canon EOS Rebel T3i, but the new iPad Minis are coming out this month…

79 jamesfirecat  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:49:59pm

re: #35 Backwoods_Sleuth

It’s really funny/odd/strange that I know atheists who are more Christian in their actions than the vast majority of identified Christians.

Tash and Aslan.

There are some things in that book that really piss me off / I disagree with but there was some wonderful brilliance in that particular bit of story telling/exposition/philosophy.

80 team_fukit  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:50:24pm

re: #73 Ace-o-aces

I grew up in Evangelical environs, and they believe that the Bible has magical powers in itself to convert people as “God’s Word”… that reading it in any context can “convict a sinner”

81 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:51:03pm

re: #60 Political Atheist

Nice marmot with a nice camera. Prolly pining for a 5D tho…

Nah, he’s an old Tri-X film guy and I have to keep him from taking the mid 60’s Canon 7 rangefinder I’m getting from a optical engineer I know :D

82 Political Atheist  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:51:26pm

re: #78 CuriousLurker

I was thinking of you over the past few days as I decided to buy a new camera. I’d really love to have a DSLR, but can’t justify the expense, so I was seesawing between one of those “bridge” cameras with a super zoom.

I finally narrowed it down to a choice between the Nikon L820 and the slightly more advanced (and more expensive) P520. I ended up going for the L820 as part of a bundle because at $210 (tax included, free shipping) the deal was just too good to pass up. Also it uses AA batteries, which is a big plus in my book.

Anyway, the UPS guy just delivered it about 10 minutes ago, so EEEEK! ;-)

>P.S. If I was going to splurge on an entry-level DSLR, it probably would’ve been the Canon EOS Rebel T3i, but the new iPad Minis are coming out this month…

Congrats. And I forgive you in advance for becoming more scarce around here as the thrill of photography carries you off to places of beauty. ;-)>

83 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:52:16pm

re: #71 Political Atheist

I like to confound the “our way is the only way” religious with this.

I regard them as multiple attempts by a merciful god to keep in touch with humanity and offer a kind lesson or two. Of course that may all be just my superstition. But it makes them think at least for a moment. If I’m wrong I have used false logic to treat others with respect. I can live with that.

That and this to evangelicals-Don’t bother me with tales of hell after death. When humans forget their humanity, we make hell on earth, and need not fear afterlife hell at all. It will be no worse than a war or refugee camp.

When we act right we find ways to make heaven on earth. Good families and some success in life’s challenges and throw in some appreciation for natural splendor. Sunsets, mountains, seas.

Sarte is famous for saying that hell is other people. What he neglected to notice is that so is salvation.

84 dog philosopher  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:53:02pm

re: #73 Ace-o-aces

Barton said, “is look up that phrase he just said; well, that’s right out of Matthew 7:23. So you’re just simply using English Lit.”

Matthew 7:23:

“And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity”

that means you, barton

85 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:55:03pm

re: #78 CuriousLurker

I was thinking of you over the past few days as I decided to buy a new camera. I’d really love to have a DSLR, but can’t justify the expense, so I was seesawing between one of those “bridge” cameras with a super zoom.

I finally narrowed it down to a choice between the Nikon L820 and the slightly more advanced (and more expensive) P520. I ended up going for the L820 as part of a bundle because at $210 (tax included, free shipping) the deal was just too good to pass up. Also it uses AA batteries, which is a big plus in my book.

Anyway, the UPS guy just delivered it about 10 minutes ago, so EEEEK! ;-)

>P.S. If I was going to splurge on an entry-level DSLR, it probably would’ve been the Canon EOS Rebel T3i, but the new iPad Minis are coming out this month…

Wish I knew your intents before this - I’d have pointed you at a micro 4/3’s camera from either Olympus or Panasonic.

86 klys  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:56:07pm

re: #78 CuriousLurker

I was thinking of you over the past few days as I decided to buy a new camera. I’d really love to have a DSLR, but can’t justify the expense, so I was seesawing between one of those “bridge” cameras with a super zoom.

I finally narrowed it down to a choice between the Nikon L820 and the slightly more advanced (and more expensive) P520. I ended up going for the L820 as part of a bundle because at $210 (tax included, free shipping) the deal was just too good to pass up. Also it uses AA batteries, which is a big plus in my book.

Anyway, the UPS guy just delivered it about 10 minutes ago, so EEEEK! ;-)

>P.S. If I was going to splurge on an entry-level DSLR, it probably would’ve been the Canon EOS Rebel T3i, but the new iPad Minis are coming out this month…

Pentaxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx …PPPPPPPPPPPPPPEEEEEEEEEEEENNNNNNNTTAAAAAAAAAAAXXXXXXXXXXX….

87 Romantic Heretic  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 3:58:54pm

re: #9 Justanotherhuman

Am I wrong to want vermin like Barton eliminated from public discourse?

They add absolutely no value to the social fabric.

They can be used as an example. “Observe the enemy of democracy in action. This is how they behave when advancing their goals. Beware.”

88 b_sharp  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:00:38pm

re: #87 Romantic Heretic

They can be used as an example. “Observe the enemy of democracy in action. This is how they behave when advancing their goals. Beware.”

Dominionism is a real threat.

89 ComradeDread  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:00:53pm
He could do the same as a History teacher, Barton said, suggesting that he could teach his students about Founding Father Thomas McKean who used to deliver altar calls in the courtroom when he served as a judge. “You can read an altar call,” Barton said, “here’s what was done in 1779 in Thomas McKean’s courtroom. It’s an altar call, but all you’re doing is reading history.”

Or, and I know this is just crazy talk, he could join the Peace Corps, or go to Haiti and help build roads and schools, or put in time gathering food and donations for the poor of his city, or volunteer at the hospital to read to sick kids, stuff that will actually alleviate suffering and help people and make people think that maybe Christianity is more than just saying a magic prayer and registering as Republican.

90 CuriousLurker  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:01:36pm

re: #82 Political Atheist

Congrats. And I forgive you in advance for becoming more scarce around here as the thrill of photography carries you off to places of beauty. ;-)>

Heh. I was walking around the neighborhood on Monday snapping fall photos with my Canon point & shoot and the ancient little Nikon Coolpix 3100 I bought from eBay earlier this year (as a replacement for one that met a violent end under the wheel of a car a couple of years ago—Nikons are really great at macros, y’know? I love the Canon too, but there are a bunch of options for manual settings that always scare me a little (it’s one of the few point & shoots that has so many manual options).

I got some nice photos, but then got lazy and didn’t Page them. I guess I’ll go out tomorrow or Saturday to test out the new camera and then make a Page this weekend. I’m gonna send you an email sometime soon to ask about SD cards.

91 dog philosopher  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:06:12pm

re: #89 ComradeDread

Or, and I know this is just crazy talk, he could join the Peace Corps, or go to Haiti and help build roads and schools, or put in time gathering food and donations for the poor of his city, or volunteer at the hospital to read to sick kids, stuff that will actually alleviate suffering and help people and make people think that maybe Christianity is more than just saying a magic prayer and registering as Republican.

watch out for the ‘by faith alone” and “your good works are like filthy rags to Him” crowd

93 CuriousLurker  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:08:52pm

re: #86 klys

Pentaxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx …PPPPPPPPPPPPPPEEEEEEEEEEEENNNNNNNTTAAAAAAAAAAAXXXXXXXXXXX….

Really? Which one?

Wait. Is this on the level of a religious thing like Mac vs PC fights, or hand coding vs WYSIWYG editors, or Illustrator vs Corel Draw, or…

LOL, one time some graphic designers at a forum I belonged to were having a fight over Illustrator/Corel and I told them I was kinda starting to picture one side screaming about “true believers” while holding a copy of Illustrator in one hand and a sword in the other…

94 b_sharp  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:10:28pm

You atheists are so damned religious.

95 b.d.  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:13:15pm

I’d be an atheist but there aren’t enough holidays.

96 Targetpractice  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:14:01pm

Don’t look at me, I’m a follower of Sheogorath.

//

97 b_sharp  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:15:07pm

So, Rob Ford said something along the line of ‘eat her pussy’ during a scrum and the Canadian media is going apeshit.

I don’t like Ford in the least, but this isn’t an action of his that they should be focusing on. Using rather descriptive language in public is worse than being an alcoholic, drug using authority in a position of power in which universe?

98 klys  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:15:11pm

re: #93 CuriousLurker

Really? Which one?

Wait. Is this on the level of a religious thing like Mac vs PC fights, or hand coding vs WYSIWYG editors, or Illustrator vs Corel Draw, or…

LOL, one time some graphic designers at a forum I belonged to were having a fight over Illustrator/Corel and I told them I was kinda starting to picture one side screaming about “true believers” while holding a copy of Illustrator in one hand and a sword in the other…

I have the K-5 (pretty sure) and it is a beautiful, beautiful thing.

Weather resistant, fantastic lowlight performance, and reasonably priced with lots of nice used lenses (inexpensive!) to boot.

The downside, of course, is that this is not one of the BIG TWO and so …yes.

Anyway, based on G-forces and ear popping, our descent has begun.

Later, Lizards. Maybe back online after dinner in Denver.

99 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:15:56pm

re: #95 b.d.

I’d be an atheist but there aren’t enough holidays.

Youtube Video

100 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:16:33pm
101 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:16:56pm

Speaking of whackos…

Gay Marriage Exorcism: Illinois Bishop Plans Prayer Service Opposing ‘Evil’ Marriage Equality Law

huffingtonpost.com

Spinning heads and all?

102 b_sharp  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:17:44pm

re: #95 b.d.

I’d be an atheist but there aren’t enough holidays.

That’s an interesting point considering atheists don’t have to restrict holidays to any given ‘divine sponsor.’

103 Targetpractice  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:19:02pm

re: #95 b.d.

I’d be an atheist but there aren’t enough holidays.

Festivus for the rest of us.

104 Romantic Heretic  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:19:25pm

re: #34 Kragar

I’m a devout Agnostic.

I believe in the possibility of an All Powerful Creator, who created the universe billions of years ago, using observable scientific phenomenon, and that any person or religion that claims only they know the path to salvation is full of shit.

I use the chirpsithtra definite of an agnostic to describe myself: A person who does not know the nature of God and does not believe you do either.

105 dog philosopher  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:20:29pm

re: #95 b.d.

I’d be an atheist but there aren’t enough holidays.

since i’m a computer programmer i celebrate the birth of Our Server

106 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:21:56pm

I just can’t wrap my mind around who in their right mind could envision a Supreme Being made in his own image.

Image: Cima_da_Conegliano,_God_the_Father.jpg

107 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:23:24pm

I was going to post another Tweet, but the background image of the tweeter is much more spectacular.

108 Targetpractice  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:23:31pm

re: #105 dog philosopher

since i’m a computer programmer i celebrate the birth of Our Server

Our Lord who art in Redmond…

//

109 b_sharp  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:24:27pm

re: #104 Romantic Heretic

I use the chirpsithtra definite of an agnostic to describe myself: A person who does not know the nature of God and does not believe you do either.

I accept the possibility of a god that does not resemble any of the gods I’m familiar with, but based on a reasonable level of confidence somewhat less than 100% I conclude there is no god.

110 Romantic Heretic  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:25:40pm

re: #44 Kragar

The hardest thing about Original sin is constantly having to come up with new ones.

“Honey, have you seen my hip waders and that cage of Marmots I had delivered? And where is my electric razor?”

I’m now thinking of this comic.

111 Charles Johnson  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:25:41pm

re: #100 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

Que onda, perrito?

112 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:25:41pm

re: #108 Targetpractice

Our Lord Satanic Majesty who art in Redmond…

//

FTFY.

113 b_sharp  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:27:11pm

I read in another thread that someone (Kragar?) had to deal with a co-worker unable to update a server.

Perhaps that person simply didn’t have the aptitude for it, or felt it a less than yummy procedure.

114 b.d.  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:27:12pm

re: #108 Targetpractice

Our Lord who art in Redmond…

//

The Lord who arts in Cupertino, California has the snootiest and most devout followers, they’re like Episcopalians

115 StephenMeansMe  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:28:24pm

This really grinds my gears, not just because Barton is a pathological Liar For Jesus, but because there are plenty of legitimate secular reasons to read (parts of) the Bible in an English Literature or (European/American) History class. For one, the King James version originated a lot of useful—-or at least widely repeated—-phrases and metaphors, so it’s a nice background when reading works that came later. And religion is a primary motivator for people doing stuff, so there’s the history component. (What drove the settling of New England, for example.)

But of course that has nothing to do with whether people should believe Christianity, and certainly not Barton’s version of it in particular.

116 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:28:57pm

re: #111 Charles Johnson

Que onda, perrito?

Youtube Video

117 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:29:51pm

re: #110 Romantic Heretic

I’m now thinking of this comic.

This one oglaf.com seems appropriate too.

118 Charles Johnson  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:32:45pm
119 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:33:51pm

Stand off?

120 ObserverArt  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:34:43pm

re: #26 Backwoods_Sleuth

I do have to say that my years in Catholic grade school were not wasted. I learned two very important things:
1: The Catholic Church is full of crap.
2: Whoever this Jesus person may or may not have been, he was a really nice guy for the most part and I like to think that, even though I am now an atheist, if he really did/does exist, he would approve of how I live and treat my fellow beings on this earth.

Slueth,

You know I’ve posted about my Catholic background and the fact I went to all 12 years of Grade, Junior and High School. I always will admit I had one hell of an education of the classic liberal arts/college prep variety. I think part of it was I attended when the Catholic church was going through its Pope Paul Vatican 2 modernization and we had a lot of “new” almost hippie priests and lay teachers.

Were you schooled Catholic too?

121 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:34:55pm

re: #104 Romantic Heretic

I use the chirpsithtra definite of an agnostic to describe myself: A person who does not know the nature of God and does not believe you do either.

God comes in multiple forms existing at once, purrs, wants the litterbox cleaned out, and understands that you *like* hairs being shed on your clothes and that tuna is always a good snack.

122 dog philosopher  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:38:02pm

re: #111 Charles Johnson

Que onda, perrito?

que hongo!

123 b.d.  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:40:14pm

re: #119 wrenchwench

Stand off?

[Embedded content]

That snake is toast

124 dog philosopher  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:41:27pm

que honda civic!

125 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:42:06pm

re: #124 dog philosopher

que honda civic!

Kia Santa Fe!

126 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:43:28pm

re: #123 b.d.

That snake is toast

Yeah, it can hold the bird’s beak closed only until the bird finds a handy rock….

127 b_sharp  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:45:21pm

I know everybody is highly concerned about my crack after I posted that picture a couple of days ago so just to let you know, I’ve replaced my screen so the crack is no more.

128 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:47:07pm

re: #127 b_sharp

I know everybody is highly concerned about my crack after I posted that picture a couple of days ago so just to let you know, I’ve replaced my screen so the crack is no more.

“Crack” is not what I’d have called it. : )

129 Decatur Deb  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:47:22pm

re: #127 b_sharp

I know everybody is highly concerned about my crack after I posted that picture a couple of days ago so just to let you know, I’ve replaced my screen so the crack is no more.

Expressing excessive concern for your colorful crack might be unseemly.

130 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:48:05pm

re: #127 b_sharp

I know everybody is highly concerned about my crack after I posted that picture a couple of days ago so just to let you know, I’ve replaced my screen so the crack is no more.

Spirit Airlines emailed me to let me know they’re not doing crack.

131 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:48:21pm

I don’t think I hallucinated that.

But maybe.

132 b_sharp  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:50:37pm

re: #131 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I don’t think I hallucinated that.

But maybe.

How are you feeling?

133 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:51:50pm

re: #132 b_sharp

I’m going back to bed. I’m also going to class. I guess I’m doing one of those and I’ll figure out which one when I’m there.

134 b.d.  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:53:04pm

I’m thinking of moving to Canada and running for mayor of Toronto.

135 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:54:52pm


re: #134 b.d.

I’m thinking of moving to Canada and running for mayor of Toronto.

Sounds like fun!

136 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:55:12pm

Oops, I left Mr. Biden in there…

137 b.d.  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:55:46pm

re: #136 wrenchwench

Oops, I left Mr. Biden in there…

Can’t ever have too much Joe!

138 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:57:08pm

re: #137 b.d.

Can’t ever have too much Joe!

Didn’t want to give the impression he was having fun laying a bouquet, though.

139 b_sharp  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:58:04pm

re: #134 b.d.

I’m thinking of moving to Canada and running for mayor of Toronto.

Go for it.

140 Targetpractice  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:58:37pm

re: #137 b.d.

Can’t ever have too much Joe!

But it’s just not as awesome as Joe washing his Trans Am at the White House while shirtless.

//

141 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 4:59:37pm

Comcast to sell digital movies through cable boxes, website

reuters.com

When will they close the theaters? I don’t think I’ve been to a movie in the last 10 yrs that had a full audience. More like a dozen or two seats filled.

142 EmmaAnne  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 5:13:25pm

re: #34 Kragar

I’m a devout Agnostic.

I believe in the possibility of an All Powerful Creator, who created the universe billions of years ago, using observable scientific phenomenon, and that any person or religion that claims only they know the path to salvation is full of shit.

I’m a Fundamentalist Agnostic:

“I don’t know and neither do you.”

:-)

143 CuriousLurker  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 5:14:34pm

re: #85 William Barnett-Lewis

Wish I knew your intents before this - I’d have pointed you at a micro 4/3’s camera from either Olympus or Panasonic.

Ah, missed this earlier. Yeah, I prolly should’ve checked here first.

144 Stephen T.  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 5:17:51pm

re: #141 Justanotherhuman

I see movies in theaters about twice a year, I seem to pick the big ones, each time I go, the theater is packed.

145 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 5:20:16pm

re: #120 ObserverArt

Slueth,

You know I’ve posted about my Catholic background and the fact I went to all 12 years of Grade, Junior and High School. I always will admit I had one hell of an education of the classic liberal arts/college prep variety. I think part of it was I attended when the Catholic church was going through its Pope Paul Vatican 2 modernization and we had a lot of “new” almost hippie priests and lay teachers.

Were you schooled Catholic too?

Yes, I was. And I should have added a #3: I got an excellent academic education in Catholic school. Sadly, once my family moved from Buffalo, NY, to somewhere in the western wildlands of Greater Cincinnati, the new parish was VERY not progressive and I got kicked to the curb by the time I was 14-15 years old.

146 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 5:23:32pm

I’m off to sleeps now but saw this earlier today and thought most of you would enjoy it as well.

Image: 1395363_184497258421128_784248807_n.jpg

sleep well, lizardz…

147 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 5:26:18pm

re: #145 Backwoods_Sleuth

Yes, I was. And I should have added a #3: I got an excellent academic education in Catholic school. Sadly, once my family moved from Buffalo, NY, to somewhere in the western wildlands of Greater Cincinnati, the new parish was VERY not progressive and I got kicked to the curb by the time I was 14-15 years old.

What a small world. I’m older than you, but went to Catholic schools in Buffalo from 1949 until 1954, 3rd through 6th. Then I attended Gesu School in Miami in the 7th & 8th grades when we moved there. After that, it was public schools and my separation from the church in which I no longer had an interest.

148 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 5:28:04pm

All I got was CCD on Saturdays. And public schools M-F. My older brother had one year of Catholic school, and I don’t know what happened, but that was enough for my mom.

149 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 5:31:33pm

re: #141 Justanotherhuman

Comcast to sell digital movies through cable boxes, website

reuters.com

When will they close the theaters? I don’t think I’ve been to a movie in the last 10 yrs that had a full audience. More like a dozen or two seats filled.

5-6 in the theater when I saw Thor: The Dark World on Tuesday. And one of them remarked that he’d never seen the original after they ran a preview for the “new” Robocop.

150 dog philosopher  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 5:33:45pm

re: #147 Justanotherhuman

What a small world. I’m older than you, but went to Catholic schools in Buffalo from 1949 until 1954, 3rd through 6th. Then I attended Gesu School in Miami in the 7th & 8th grades when we moved there. After that, it was public schools and my separation from the church in which I no longer had an interest.

even though i come from a family of jewish atheists, i got sent to an episcopalian parochial school for high school

it was teh weird

151 Learned Pie Of Zion  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 5:40:32pm

re: #40 dog philosopher

since jesus never claimed to be anything but jewish, he wouldn’t have believed in “salvation”, since nothing like that exists in judaism

jews don’t believe in original sin, and in judaism there is no being saved and having eternal life in heaven nor being damned, and no hell for that matter, merely pleasing g-d more or less with your actions, and feeling remorse and making amends for your sins

it has been said that in judaism you have sins, whereas in christianity you have Sin

Judaism does include an afterlife, however it is open to everyone, you don’t have to be a “member” to get in. People are judged by their actions and how they treat others, not some mysterious “grace”

152 Learned Pie Of Zion  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 5:45:40pm

re: #73 Ace-o-aces

For instance, Barton recommend that, as an English teacher, he could have his students read the works of Shakespeare, which Barton claimed contain quotes from over two thousand Bible verses. “So what you can do,” Barton said, “is look up that phrase he just said; well, that’s right out of Matthew 7:23. So you’re just simply using English Lit.”

Does anyone know WTF he is talking about?

Some “historian” Barton doesn’t even realize that most of Shakespeare’s plays were all written BEFORE the King James Bible translation was published. So where did Shakespeare get his Bible verses from? He had “small Latin and less Greek.”

153 dog philosopher  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 5:51:05pm

re: #152 Vicious Babushka

Does anyone know WTF he is talking about?

Some “historian” Barton doesn’t even realize that most of Shakespeare’s plays were all written BEFORE the King James Bible translation was published. So where did Shakespeare get his Bible verses from? He had “small Latin and less Greek.”

wycliffe and tyndale are known for the earliest translations of the bible into english, and they suffered for it since the catholic church was against translations into vulgar tongues at the time

henry viii authorized english bibles to be printed, based ultimately on wycliffe’s and tyndale’s translations, during his reign, and these versions contributed a lot to the king james language

154 CriticalDragon1177  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 6:16:35pm

Charles Johnson,

Obviously Barton wants to turn all of our public schools into Sunday schools. I think through that most likely a teacher that followed Barton’s advice would eventually get fired. Unfortunitally it might take awhile, but sooner or later some kid would probably talk about it to their parents, and assuming they weren’t like him, they’d tell the school board and if they didn’t fire him/her, they could sue the school.

155 CriticalDragon1177  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 6:17:06pm

re: #100 wrenchwench

re: #118 Charles Johnson

He has no idea.

Cute Dog!

156 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 6:54:01pm

re: #152 Vicious Babushka

Does anyone know WTF he is talking about?

Some “historian” Barton doesn’t even realize that most of Shakespeare’s plays were all written BEFORE the King James Bible translation was published. So where did Shakespeare get his Bible verses from? He had “small Latin and less Greek.”

The most common translations available to him were the Great Bible of Henry the VIII prepared by Myles Coverdale (who’s translation of the psalms are still the basis of the psalter in the Book of Common Prayer. “THE LORD is my shepherd; * therefore can I lack nothing.
He shall feed me in a green pasture, * and lead me forth beside the waters of comfort.” ) and the Geneva Bible of 1560. James I hated the Geneva Bibles footnotes and had his translation done, footnote free, because of that.

157 Bubblehead II  Thu, Nov 14, 2013 7:08:45pm

I came, I saw and I bid you a good night Lizards.

158 yoshicastmaster  Tue, Nov 19, 2013 2:19:41pm

Wow. Sneaky AND duplicitous. And this guy’s a minister?

159 CriticalDragon1177  Tue, Nov 19, 2013 4:57:18pm

re: #158 yoshicastmaster

Barton is a “historian” which I put in quotes, only because that’s what he claims to be, but has no real justification for doing so. He’s a pseudo historian at best. I don’t think he’s an ordained minister, or even claims to be one, but if he is, he’s giving a bad name to that profession as well.


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