Brawl Breaks Out at Oregon Wildlife Refuge Standoff

When militants fight
US News • Views: 52,546
Credit: The Oregonian/OregonLive.com

It seems clownish enough on its surface, but remember that these loons are heavily armed; all it takes is one idiot to pull a gun and things could get nasty: At Bundy encampment, outsider says militants ‘attacked’ his group.

Lewis Arthur, who leads a group called Veterans on Patrol and calls himself an anti-violence patriot, arrived Wednesday afternoon with a small crew. By Wednesday night, one of Arthur’s three-person crew was in the hospital, his eye blackened from a punch to the face.

In an interview Thursday, Arthur blamed the injuries on Blaine Cooper, a prominent member of the group of militants who since Saturday have staged a standoff at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. The group’s members say they hope to exonerate two area ranchers imprisoned on arson charges and then turn over land on the federally owned refuge to private owners.

Arthur said those inside the refuge didn’t agree with his mission to remove women and children — as well as prominent militant Ryan Payne — from the compound.

Jason Patrick, another participant in the refuge standoff, tells a different story. In a Facebook post Thursday morning, he said Arthur initiated the scuffle when he “assaulted a guard” in an attempt to enter the compound.

In an interview, refuge occupier Jon Ritzheimer said the guard was shoved aside, causing him to bloody his hand when he collided with his truck.

Arthur’s tension with Payne goes back years, to the standoff at Cliven Bundy’s Nevada ranch. Both attended the standoff, and Arthur said the two were once friends but the relationship devolved when Payne became radicalized and “suicidal.”

“He made it very clear out there that he wanted the federal government to go and take him out,” Arthur said, adding that Payne believed he would be a martyr in the so-called patriot community if he died for the cause. “I had to come up here because I know what he wants.”

Video

UPDATE at 1/8/16 10:56:43 am by Charles Johnson

A member of Veterans On Patrol posted this account of the brawl on Facebook:

facebook.com

Jump to bottom

179 comments
1
KiTA  Jan 8, 2016 • 10:32:04am

Well, this just took a turn for the worse. Thank god it was just fisticuffs.

… for now.

2
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Jan 8, 2016 • 10:32:18am

Well, these seem like nice people….

3
Testy Toad T  Jan 8, 2016 • 10:33:17am

Had to run off to the hospital to fix his boo-boo!

It’s like these guys are on a gorram mission to show the rest of us why polite society and governmental infrastructure exist in the first place.

4
I Would Prefer Not To  Jan 8, 2016 • 10:33:39am

Lord of the flies

5
Shiplord Kirel  Jan 8, 2016 • 10:33:48am

Just as we planned. All is unfolding as it should.

6
KerFuFFler  Jan 8, 2016 • 10:33:51am

Pretty funny that they complain about Lewis Arthur just stirring up trouble to get in the limelight.

These losers possess zero self-awareness.

7
lawhawk  Jan 8, 2016 • 10:34:14am

When loons attack. And I’m not talking about the fowl.

These are foul folks to be sure. Given how heavily armed they are, they’re lucky that no one decided to escalate and start shooting. Because they’re all good guys with guns (though to be fair, the NRA has decreed that no guns are harmed during any shooting incident).

8
makeitstop  Jan 8, 2016 • 10:37:43am

There’s a whole lot of mistrust between all of these patritos. I think that Payne dude is one of the guys who’s suspected of being an informant. Cooper, too.

How they gonna bring down the tyrannical gubmint when they can’t even unite those on their own side?
/

9
Kragar  Jan 8, 2016 • 10:38:20am
10
KerFuFFler  Jan 8, 2016 • 10:39:21am

re: #5 Shiplord Kirel

From a thread at The Oregonian:

This stand-off was designed to fail, because it is a government operation, on both sides. The objective is total control of all property in the United States in accordance with the UN’s Agenda 21 objectives, such as “sustainable development” which when boiled down is nothing but the end of private property.

One way or another, the Bundy’s got roped in to this either by the agents provocateur from the Bundy Ranch Stand-Off, or by direct threats to cooperate in this psyop. The militias that were at the Bundy Ranch identified these agents provocateur and outed them to the Bundys. What surprised everyone in the militias was that the Bundy’s picked these very same trouble makers as their personal security on the Ranch.

And now, guess who are the ring-leaders in this Oregon stand-off? Yep, the very same provocateurs that were at the Bundy Ranch. Specifically, Brian Cavalier, the personal bodyguard to Ammon Bundy, a tattoo artist who falsely claimed that he served in both Iraq and Afghanistan yet the US Marine Corps has no record of his service. He also has a long rap sheet of DUI’s and theft. Blaine Cooper aka Stanley Blaine Hicks (a convicted felon, claimed to be a marine……

11
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Jan 8, 2016 • 10:40:06am

re: #10 KerFuFFler

From a thread at The Oregonian:

AGENDA 21!!!! JUST LIKE GLENN BECK SAID!!!!

12
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 8, 2016 • 10:40:18am
13
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 8, 2016 • 10:41:27am
14
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Jan 8, 2016 • 10:41:45am

re: #10 KerFuFFler

And now, guess who are the ring-leaders in this Oregon stand-off? Yep, the very same provocateurs that were at the Bundy Ranch.

All Obama’s fault somehow.

/

15
BeenHereAwhile  Jan 8, 2016 • 10:41:53am

re: #1 KiTA

Well, this just took a turn for the worse. Thank god it was just fisticuffs.

… for now.

Prison Recreation Yard Rules.

16
Decatur Deb  Jan 8, 2016 • 10:42:52am

re: #3 Testy Toad T

Had to run off to the hospital to fix his boo-boo!

It’s like these guys are on a gorram mission to show the rest of us why polite society and governmental infrastructure exist in the first place.

As long as no one hurts a kid, these assholes are doing a public service.

17
Jenner7  Jan 8, 2016 • 10:43:06am

So, what’s the “controversy” with Hillary’s emails this time?

18
jaunte  Jan 8, 2016 • 10:43:47am
Lewis Arthur, who leads a group called Veterans on Patrol and calls himself an anti-violence patriot, arrived Wednesday afternoon with a small crew.

You have to love how the guy comes in all the way from Arizona to get in front of a news camera then pretends it’s about escorting the wimmens to safety.

19
Great White Snark  Jan 8, 2016 • 10:44:10am
20
Testy Toad T  Jan 8, 2016 • 10:44:47am

re: #16 Decatur Deb

As long as no one hurts a kid, these assholes are doing a public service.

The gubmint’s slow-to-action hands-off approach looks smarter by the day (though those who point out black occupiers would already have been shot, and that this is bullshit, are 100% correct).

21
wrenchwench  Jan 8, 2016 • 10:45:56am

This is what happens to groups of people who hold community organizers in contempt: No snacks, and the kids get cranky.

22
KiTA  Jan 8, 2016 • 10:46:42am

re: #3 Testy Toad T

Well, to be fair, this appears to be a group dedicated to non-violence, who seems to be about trying to get a dangerously suicidal man and the women/children out of the site. While they might be pretty nutty other than that, and given that they were at the Bundy Ranch are probably a bit more involved than that… they’re at least doing the right thing here? Right?

23
Decatur Deb  Jan 8, 2016 • 10:47:12am

re: #13 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Their goals are laudable. Of course there is no reason to expose innocent weapons to the elements during their “witnessing”, so they will probably reconsider and leave them locked at home.

24
jaunte  Jan 8, 2016 • 10:47:19am

re: #21 wrenchwench

We came unprepared because of gubmint provocateurs!

25
CuriousLurker  Jan 8, 2016 • 10:48:00am

re: #19 Great White Snark

Other news breaking…
‘Mission accomplished’: Mexican President says ‘El Chapo’ caught

I wonder how long before Trump feels safe enough to start taunting him. It would be a very, very bad idea.

26
jaunte  Jan 8, 2016 • 10:48:19am
27
theheat  Jan 8, 2016 • 10:48:27am

The fiefdoms of hillbillies play out a lot like this, except real chickens are much more charming.

Chicken Police?

28
wrenchwench  Jan 8, 2016 • 10:49:03am

re: #24 jaunte

We came unprepared because of gubmint provocateurs!

WE BLAME THE COMMUNITY ORGANIZER IN CHIEF!

29
theheat  Jan 8, 2016 • 10:50:48am

re: #19 Great White Snark

I wonder how soon he can dig his way out of the new place, and how soon the payoffs and death threats begin. He seems to have come upon a working system to evade longterm capture.

30
Decatur Deb  Jan 8, 2016 • 10:51:36am

Next phase: Send Trump’s legions in to confiscate the threepers’ coats.

31
wrenchwench  Jan 8, 2016 • 10:51:38am

re: #29 theheat

I wonder how soon he can dig his way out of the new place, and how soon the payoffs and death threats begin. He seems to have come upon a working system to evade longterm capture.

The digging has already started.

32
Nyet  Jan 8, 2016 • 10:52:53am

So I hear they caught the Mexican Trump.
/

33
Pawn of the Oppressor  Jan 8, 2016 • 10:53:42am

re: #27 theheat

The fiefdoms of hillbillies play out a lot like this, except real chickens are much more charming.

[Embedded content]

Video

Fantastic.

I’m pleased to see they didn’t focus only on the black bunny, either. That’s policing done right.

//

34
wrenchwench  Jan 8, 2016 • 10:54:07am
35
Great White Snark  Jan 8, 2016 • 10:54:41am

re: #25 CuriousLurker

I wonder how long before Trump feels safe enough to start taunting him. It would be a very, very bad idea.

If I wish Trump to bait the hell out of El Chapo would I be a bad person?

36
Charles Johnson  Jan 8, 2016 • 10:57:01am
37
makeitstop  Jan 8, 2016 • 10:57:25am

re: #35 Great White Snark

If I wish Trump to bait the hell out of El Chapo would I be a bad person?

Don’t think that El Chapo has forgotten the last round of baiting.

Guys like him tend to have long memories.

38
FormerDirtDart  Jan 8, 2016 • 10:58:42am
39
CuriousLurker  Jan 8, 2016 • 10:59:01am

re: #22 KiTA

Yeah, totally rational & non-violent, like this one:

By September, the anti-government group Oath Keepers reported they were in the process of expelling Ritzheimer from their organization after he suddenly announced detailed plans to “arrest” United States Senator Debbie Stabenow for treason. In response, Ritzheimer said that he was withdrawing his membership from the group. The U.S. Capitol Police, which is responsible for the protection of members of Congress, meanwhile announced they had started coordinating with police in Michigan, Stabenow’s home state, to monitor attempts by Ritzheimer or confederates to carry out the threat of “arrest”.

The following month, the FBI issued a warning to local law enforcement about Ritzheimer after he posted a YouTube video of himself brandishing a firearm and declaring his intent to confront staff at The Islamic Post, a small newspaper in Hancock, New York, in response to the paper’s labeling him as “an American Taliban.” According to Ritzheimer, he was contacted by the New York State Police who admonished him not to attempt to cross the New York border.

In January 2016, Ritzheimer participated in the militia occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.

Ritzheimer operates an ecommerce website called Rogue Infidel which sells t-shirts and bumper stickers emblazoned with either “Fuck Islam” or “Fuck Anderson Cooper.” He has said he supports Donald Trump in the 2016 U.S. presidential election.

en.wikipedia.org

40
Testy Toad T  Jan 8, 2016 • 10:59:07am

The neckbeard, the mouthbreather slackjaw… my god, it’s full of stars derp.

41
theheat  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:00:18am

re: #39 CuriousLurker

Geez, you make it sound like he’s an habitual asshole or something.//

42
danarchy  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:01:19am

re: #19 Great White Snark

Other news breaking now…
‘Mission accomplished’: Mexican President says ‘El Chapo’ caught

Now let’s see if they extradite him like the US is requesting so he doesn’t escape a year from now.

43
wrenchwench  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:02:45am

re: #41 theheat

Geez, you make it sound like he’s an habitual asshole or something.//

Born and raised. Well, raised anyway. Nobody is born like that. They have to be carefully taught.

44
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:02:49am
45
Decatur Deb  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:03:41am

re: #39 CuriousLurker

Yeah, totally rational & non-violent, like this one:…snip “Ritzheimer operates an ecommerce website called Rogue Infidel which sells t-shirts and bumper stickers emblazoned with either “Fuck Islam” or “Fuck Anderson Cooper.”

See, nobody’s entirely wrong.

46
Eclectic Cyborg  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:04:31am

re: #13 Backwoods_Sleuth

So they will have a guns a plenty but no tactical gear? Yep, sure seems peaceful to me…

47
wrenchwench  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:06:02am
48
wrenchwench  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:06:58am

re: #45 Decatur Deb

See, nobody’s entirely wrong.

I’m gonna have to put you in the ‘fair to a fault’ file with Sergey.

49
CuriousLurker  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:07:29am

re: #46 Eclectic Cyborg

So they will have a guns a plenty but no tactical gear? Yep, sure seems peaceful to me…

They’re all nuckin’ futz. When the Oath Keepers don’t want to be associated with you….

50
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:09:20am
51
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:09:52am
52
jaunte  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:12:09am

Stand Down Marine and/or Marine impostor!!!!

53
Belafon  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:12:50am

re: #51 Backwoods_Sleuth

Law enforcement at all levels is going to need to move beyond “monitoring”.

54
Great White Snark  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:13:28am

FOWL PLAY AT BIRD SANCTUARY

Stolen valor? Infighting? Safety issue for the local public.
Time to clean house. Wrap it up.

55
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:14:20am

re: #52 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Stand Down Marine and/or Marine impostor!!!!

He had the unmitigated gall to call 911 for assistance?
wow…

56
Tigger2  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:14:59am
57
Decatur Deb  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:15:01am

re: #54 Great White Snark

FOWL PLAY AT BIRD SANCTUARY

Stolen valor? Infighting? Safety issue for the local public.
Time to clean house. Wrap it up.

Nope. This is our patriot resistance in action. Let the American people see what stands between them and liberal fascist tyranny.

58
Charles Johnson  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:15:07am
59
makeitstop  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:15:14am

re: #55 Backwoods_Sleuth

He had the unmitigated gall to call 911 for assistance?
wow…

Suddenly the Evil Government looks a little less evil.

60
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:15:47am

And the batshit crazy stuff she’s sharing is very interesting.

61
allegro  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:16:32am

re: #52 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Stand Down Marine and/or Marine impostor!!!!

Called 911? Evil government?
These guys…

62
makeitstop  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:16:39am

re: #51 Backwoods_Sleuth

Concrete barriers, added security today at the Harney Co Courthouse and Sheriff’s office.

It’s starting to look like they’re preparing for an attempted takeover of their own buildings.

63
Decatur Deb  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:17:06am

re: #60 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

And the batshit crazy stuff she’s sharing is very interesting.

Yup, and it dovetails very neatly with the stuff on the threeper sites.

64
wrenchwench  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:17:09am

Wild Life Refuge Takeover Training:

65
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:18:09am
66
jaunte  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:18:17am

re: #60 Backwoods_Sleuth

Interesting thoughts on ‘politico-racism’ and the three-per-centers as a cargo cult.

67
Belafon  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:18:34am

re: #58 Charles Johnson

I’ve already seen those episodes of Family Guy. I wonder if Greg will jump off a building next.

68
CuriousLurker  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:19:31am

re: #62 makeitstop

It’s starting to look like they’re preparing for an attempted takeover of their own buildings.

Patriots vs Patritos!!11!

69
Charles Johnson  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:20:14am
70
danarchy  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:20:53am

re: #68 CuriousLurker

Patriots vs Patritos!!11!

Finally a super bowl worth watching…

71
Kragar  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:21:53am
72
jaunte  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:22:13am

re: #69 Charles Johnson

Tenther’s Last Chance Secessionism Sale!

73
Decatur Deb  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:22:15am

re: #69 Charles Johnson

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott to call for a Convention of States to pass 9 amendments to US Constitution -

Herman Cain says he’s two 9s short of a full hand.

74
Charles Johnson  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:23:16am
75
wrenchwench  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:24:59am

Chapo is not worth anyone’s death. Neither are the clowns in the wildlife refuge.

76
jaunte  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:25:21am

Texas public schools finally get to teach nothing but the Bible.

77
Charles Johnson  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:25:33am
78
Emoprog Refugee  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:25:52am

re: #65 Backwoods_Sleuth

Speaking of which, the #Bundy’s themselves do not want the land privatized. “It belongs to the people,” Ryan told me.
They do know that this is public land already, right?

These people need to go back to 4th grade. 4th grade in a mental institution.
I mean really, jacking around with guns, conducting an armed takeover public land so that it can be given back to the public. How do these morons manage to zip their pants up in the morning?

79
Jenner7  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:26:24am
80
Tigger2  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:26:34am

re: #69 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

81
Kragar  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:27:00am

re: #74 Charles Johnson

“Here are the nine amendments to the U.S. Constitution that Texas Gov. @GregAbbott_TX is calling for”

No.

82
Decatur Deb  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:27:14am

re: #76 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Texas public schools finally get to teach nothing but the Bible.

So if we reinstate slavery here in Alabama, and keep it here at home, we’re OK? Cool.

83
EPR-radar  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:27:48am

re: #69 Charles Johnson

Those nine proposed amendments are a neo-Confederate wet dream.

84
Charles Johnson  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:28:42am
85
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:29:13am

good.
They should draw straws to pick one reporter and cameraperson to act as a pool for everyone else and put an end to this circus.

86
Jenner7  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:29:38am

re: #84 Charles Johnson

Crazy on steroids.

87
Feline Fearless Leader  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:29:52am

re: #76 jaunte

Embedded Image

Texas public schools finally get to teach nothing but the Bible.

That one alone is a huge reservoir of FAIL.

Especially in the West where water rights are huge and major rivers such as the Colorado cross multiple states. What is Arizona or Texas to do if Colorado opts to build a dam or draw off all the water before it crosses the state line? Invade?

88
Testy Toad T  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:29:57am

re: #85 Backwoods_Sleuth

There oughta be some kind of law that you can never have more reporters/media crew than active people at an event.

89
jaunte  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:30:23am
90
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:30:33am

asshole…

91
Kragar  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:30:37am

My arms are sore. Had 7 blood samples drawn this morning. Have to go in next week for an abdominal exam. That is going to cost me $150 bucks.

Don’t get older. It sucks.

92
Decatur Deb  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:30:48am

re: #85 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

good.
They should draw straws to pick one reporter and cameraperson to act as a pool for everyone else and put an end to this circus.

I nominate GotNews and its award-winning journalist.

93
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:31:01am

re: #81 Kragar

“Here are the nine amendments to the U.S. Constitution that Texas Gov. @GregAbbott_TX is calling for”

No.

OFFS

94
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:32:09am

re: #69 Charles Johnson

The rule of law is awesome and the Constitution of America is grate and oh here are 9 Amendments we have to add to it.

95
jaunte  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:32:11am
96
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:32:20am
97
CuriousLurker  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:32:40am

re: #69 Charles Johnson

98
danarchy  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:33:12am

re: #69 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

With the number of state legislatures republicans control they aren’t likely to get better chance to actually make it happen. Think they will still be a couple states short, and far shorter than that of actually getting an amendment through.

99
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:33:31am

re: #84 Charles Johnson

Here’s how we react when things don’t go our way…we try to change the rules of the game.

100
lawhawk  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:33:58am

re: #74 Charles Johnson

Some of those things don’t even pass the smell test.

Activity wholly within a state? You mean like marriage? Nope, that affects multiple states, especially if a person moves, and federal tax and other benefits flow from the marital status.

Administrative agencies don’t create law. They promulgate regulations in furtherance of the law enacted by Congress. Where there are issues is when Congress refuses to clarify the law sufficiently (and we see this repeatedly with the IRS and treatment of 501c entities, such as the politically active ones that shouldn’t be granted exempt status, but Congress decided not to give the IRS enough money to sort through all the applications and enforce the law as written).

The Supreme Court rule would essentially upend any number of civil rights acts, to say nothing of the Obamacare rulings - in fact, if we take Abbott’s rule on 7-2 being the standard, then all states would have been required to have their own marketplaces. And the same would apply for upholding the ACA in total (since the lower court upheld). This is just flat out batcrap nuts.

Balanced budget amendment? That’s been bouncing around for years without any serious move to see it enacted. Wont happen, and we’ve seen what happens when states have this in their constitution - lots of gimmicks and one-shots to balance a budget, resulting in debt and slashing the safety net when states refuse to address revenue issues.

101
Testy Toad T  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:34:08am

re: #98 danarchy

To be honest, I would be surprised to see a constitutional amendment of any kind in my lifetime.

102
nines09  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:35:27am

Looks like these cowboys are one hard winter away from rewriting the Donner Party Cookbook .

103
Feline Fearless Leader  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:35:44am

re: #99 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse

Here’s how we react when things don’t go our way…we try to change the rules of the game.

Which is standard for the GOP. Keep losing POTUS elections; engage in voter suppression and attempts to modify division of electoral votes. But only do the latter in states with a GOP majority legislature but Democrat majority citizenry. Because high principles something something.

104
Decatur Deb  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:36:10am

re: #100 lawhawk

Some of those things don’t even pass the smell test.

Activity wholly within a state? You mean like marriage? Nope, that affects multiple states, especially if a person moves, and federal tax and other benefits flow from the marital status.

Administrative agencies don’t create law. They promulgate regulations in furtherance of the law enacted by Congress. Where there are issues is when Congress refuses to clarify the law sufficiently (and we see this repeatedly with the IRS and treatment of 501c entities, such as the politically active ones that shouldn’t be granted exempt status, but Congress decided not to give the IRS enough money to sort through all the applications and enforce the law as written).

The Supreme Court rule would essentially upend any number of civil rights acts, to say nothing of the Obamacare rulings - in fact, if we take Abbott’s rule on 7-2 being the standard, then all states would have been required to have their own marketplaces. And the same would apply for upholding the ACA in total (since the lower court upheld). This is just flat out batcrap nuts.

Balanced budget amendment? That’s been bouncing around for years without any serious move to see it enacted. Wont happen, and we’ve seen what happens when states have this in their constitution - lots of gimmicks and one-shots to balance a budget, resulting in debt and slashing the safety net when states refuse to address revenue issues.

I admire your attempt to make sense of that, but it’s really like explaining a carburettor to my dog.

105
ObserverArt  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:36:27am

re: #58 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

I get the feeling if he shot himself in the head he wouldn’t feel it either.

///

106
Tigger2  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:36:43am

re: #90 Backwoods_Sleuth

asshole…

[Embedded content]

107
Kragar  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:36:46am

re: #100 lawhawk

“The law says this in our state!”

Ignoring that the people living in their state are still US citizens and you cannot deprive them of their rights

108
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:37:14am

re: #100 lawhawk

Wouldn’t the supermajority requirement also have applied to Heller?

109
Feline Fearless Leader  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:37:48am

re: #106 Tigger2

[Embedded content]

It was a short-cut to saying “When we eventually get a Republican President, which might be 9+ years from now, it will become GOPCare and everyone will love us.”

110
jaunte  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:37:59am

Help, my state’s Governor is insane.

111
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:38:07am

re: #90 Backwoods_Sleuth

asshole…

[Embedded content]

Obamacare will be gone when we pass Single Payer.

112
wrenchwench  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:38:26am

Something ain’t right here.

113
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:39:55am

re: #112 wrenchwench

Something ain’t right here.

BREAKING: Guns now allowed in Texas’ state-run psychiatric hospitals

What a great idea! What could possibly go wrong?
///

114
Feline Fearless Leader  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:40:36am

re: #113 Blind Frog Belly White

What a great idea! What could possibly go wrong?
///

Well McMurty won’t cut his hand on the window this time round.

115
Whack-A-Mole  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:41:01am

re: #101 Testy Toad T

To be honest, I would be surprised to see a constitutional amendment of any kind in my lifetime.

I wouldn’t be. I fully expect a defeat in 2016 will result in some serious crazy on the extreme right fringe. And I think that blowback from that crazy might actually result in some positive amendments, like common sense changes to the 2nd Amendment.

116
Jebediah, RBG  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:41:02am

re: #112 wrenchwench

Well, we let un-institutionalized mentally ill people have guns and no bad things have happened, so what could possibly go wrong?

117
lawhawk  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:41:18am

re: #108 Blind Frog Belly White

Yup. There are unintended consequences of Abbott’s “amendments” and that’d run counter to what he thinks would be his preferential outcome.

That’s why this is so bugnuts crazy. And why supreme court decisions are decided on majority basis. It’s also why many Chief Justices have sought unanimous decisions in key areas (or 8-1/7-2 as much as possible to avoid this kind of claptrap from Abbott - that the Court clearly indicates its preferences).

118
CuriousLurker  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:42:02am

re: #102 nines09

Looks like these cowboys are one hard winter away from rewriting the Donner Party Cookbook .

Somebody already went there. I saw a tweet yesterday that had a photo from that plane crash in the Andes back in the ’70s—it had a snarky caption, something to the effect that at least those guys being able to find/make their own snacks.

I’ll admit I LOL, but I was kinda ashamed of myself for doing so, hence I didn’t RT.

119
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:42:46am

re: #110 jaunte

Help, my state’s Governor is insane.

Way worser than Perry, and that’s saying something

120
Decatur Deb  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:42:48am

re: #113 Blind Frog Belly White

What a great idea! What could possibly go wrong?
///

“The Tree of Liberty must be watered with a chlorpromazine drip.”

121
Nyet  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:42:53am

Gone are the old days when even having been seen on a photo with Con-Con Call was extremist and required at least a denial.

122
Feline Fearless Leader  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:42:58am

re: #115 Whack-A-Mole

I wouldn’t be. I fully expect a defeat in 2016 will result in some serious crazy on the extreme right fringe. And I think that blowback from that crazy might actually result in some positive amendments, like common sense changes to the 2nd Amendment.

Doubt it. Unless there is a massive sea change in the GOP back to sanity.

Otherwise, it will take the 2020-2030 period to even start undoing the gerrymander damage in the state and federal legislative districts. And that’s hoping they are repaired by an equitable and non-partisan replacement.

123
CuriousLurker  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:43:15am

re: #112 wrenchwench

Something ain’t right here.

[Embedded content]

Oh, that’s bound to work out well. What could possibly go wrong?

124
Tigger2  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:43:26am

re: #106 Tigger2

[Embedded content]

125
Nyet  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:45:48am

re: #112 wrenchwench

Relax, that only means they allowed bringing guns to the State Senate and the Gov’s office.

126
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:45:51am

re: #117 lawhawk

Yup. There are unintended consequences of Abbott’s “amendments” and that’d run counter to what he thinks would be his preferential outcome.

That’s why this is so bugnuts crazy. And why supreme court decisions are decided on majority basis. It’s also why many Chief Justices have sought unanimous decisions in key areas (or 8-1/7-2 as much as possible to avoid this kind of claptrap from Abbott - that the Court clearly indicates its preferences).

The “There can only be an upside to this” thinking he’s demonstrating here reminds me of California’s power deregulation, or for that matter the repeal of Glass-Steagall. It’s like he’s given no thought to how these amendments might work AGAINST him. All the 5-4 and 6-3 rulings of the last decade, some of which no doubt invalidated laws he hated - including, as you mentioned, the rulings against provisions of the ACA.

Wow, what a dumbfuck.

127
nines09  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:47:13am

re: #118 CuriousLurker

They deserve any and all the derision you can heap on them.

128
Kragar  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:47:29am
129
Eclectic Cyborg  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:48:00am

re: #74 Charles Johnson

Fucking hell. He wants to amend the Constitution to nullify the Constitution!

130
Testy Toad T  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:48:28am

I can’t imagine Abbott would want to make the SCOTUS stuff retroactive. That would literally force a ground-up reconstruction of our entire legal system. I can’t even imagine how few modern findings don’t depend in some way on some 5-4 ruling from the dinosaur era.

131
Feline Fearless Leader  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:49:11am

re: #129 Eclectic Cyborg

Fucking hell. He wants to amend the Constitution to nullify the Constitution!

They had to destroy it in order to save it by resurrecting the Articles of Confederation.

132
mr.fusion  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:49:15am

fusion.net

This week, Meloy created the #BundyEroticFanFic hashtag to poke a bit of fun at and speculate what Bundy and co. might be getting up to at the ol’ Wildlife Refuge. It does get mighty cold up there, after all.

133
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:49:30am

re: #129 Eclectic Cyborg

Fucking hell. He wants to amend the Constitution to nullify the Constitution!

he has to destroy it in order to save it.

134
Decatur Deb  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:49:59am

I vaguely remember discussions that a constitutional convention, once called, cannot be limited to the agenda offered. Lawyers out there?

135
CuriousLurker  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:50:08am

re: #132 mr.fusion

fusion.net

[Embedded content]

LOLOLOL

136
FormerDirtDart  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:50:16am

re: #112 wrenchwench

Something ain’t right here.

BREAKING: Guns now allowed in Texas’ state-run psychiatric hospitals

Well, following this same logic, should not licensed carriers also be allowed to bring their weapons into state/county/city prisons & jails?

137
bratwurst  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:50:26am

I am dealing with a serious and incurable illness. What exactly does Paul Ryan have in mind for me in a world without the ACA? To die as soon as possible? I really wish he’d explain.

138
jaunte  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:51:53am

re: #134 Decatur Deb

I’m not a lawyer, but:

Justice Antonin Scalia recently said, “I certainly would not want a constitutional convention. Whoa! Who knows what would come out of it?”[2] Similarly, former Chief Justice of the United States Warren Burger wrote in 1988:

[T]here is no way to effectively limit or muzzle the actions of a Constitutional Convention. The Convention could make its own rules and set its own agenda. Congress might try to limit the Convention to one amendment or one issue, but there is no way to assure that the Convention would obey. After a Convention is convened, it will be too late to stop the Convention if we don’t like its agenda.
cbpp.org

139
sagehen  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:52:48am

re: #99 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse

Here’s how we react when things don’t go our way…we try to change the rules of the game.

Kobayashi Maru!?

140
Dave In Austin  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:53:09am

Trending wildly…..

141
jaunte  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:53:22am
“A convention could choose a new ratification process. The 1787 convention ignored the ratification process under which it was established and created a new process, lowering the number of states needed to approve the new Constitution and removing Congress from the approval process.”
cbpp.org

How very exciting.

142
Kragar  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:53:30am
143
lawhawk  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:53:31am

re: #126 Blind Frog Belly White

He figured that Obergfell would be overturned on his amendment basis.

He also seems to ignore that the Supreme Court is getting these cases from lower courts, where there’s sometimes a split in authority.

For instance, some circuits found SSM legal. Others didn’t. Supreme Court resovled by finding SSM legal - a national standard. Abbott would basically leave splits of authority in place until such time that the Court rules 7-2 or better.

Then there are instances where the lower courts upheld the ACA, but the Supreme Court ruled it legal, except for the Medicaid expansion (which had been legal at lower levels). Again, it’d potentially result in split among circuits, and not a consistent law across the nation.

The more you dig, the worse Abbott’s suggestion becomes.

144
Tigger2  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:55:15am

re: #137 bratwurst

I am dealing with a serious and incurable illness. What exactly does Paul Ryan have in mind for me in a world without the ACA? To die as soon as possible? I really wish he’d explain.

Can I direct you to Alan Grayson’s video on the Republicans healthcare plan.

Alan Grayson on the GOP Health Care Plan: “Don’t Get Sick! And if You Do Get Sick, Die Quickly!”’

145
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:55:18am

re: #143 lawhawk

He figured that Obergfell would be overturned on his amendment basis.

He also seems to ignore that the Supreme Court is getting these cases from lower courts, where there’s sometimes a split in authority.

For instance, some circuits found SSM legal. Others didn’t. Supreme Court resovled by finding SSM legal - a national standard. Abbott would basically leave splits of authority in place until such time that the Court rules 7-2 or better.

Then there are instances where the lower courts upheld the ACA, but the Supreme Court ruled it legal, except for the Medicaid expansion (which had been legal at lower levels). Again, it’d potentially result in split among circuits, and not a consistent law across the nation.

The more you dig, the worse Abbott’s suggestion becomes.

Why, it’s almost like it was put together by someone really, really stupid!

146
jaunte  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:56:00am

re: #145 Blind Frog Belly White

Why, it’s almost like it was put together by someone really, really stupid!

Someone at ALEC has been watching Trump’s polling.

147
Decatur Deb  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:56:22am

re: #145 Blind Frog Belly White

Why, it’s almost like it was put together by someone really, really stupid!

Who was elected by a majority vote of his state’s turnout.

148
Dave In Austin  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:56:29am
149
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:57:16am

re: #142 Kragar

They only need one amendment: liberalism and democrats banned.

/

150
KGxvi  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:57:40am

re: #44 Backwoods_Sleuth

nice of the aye aye aye’s to establish that they are basically terrorists.

151
ObserverArt  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:57:51am

I’m trying to wrap my head around a governor of a state that is very pro-gun like Texas and doesn’t want any reinterpretations of the Second Amendment does want to completely change all the other aspects of the U.S. Constitution.

There is not a damn thing in this thinking that is real conservatism.

Abbott and his other Texas pols like Dan Patrick, etc. are a true danger to this country and everything it has stood for for 238+ years.

152
bratwurst  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:58:25am

re: #144 Tigger2

Can I direct you to Alan Grayson’s video on the Republicans healthcare plan.

[Embedded content]

Seriously. Unless they can take a break from pandering to idiots and explain what those of us with pre-existing conditions can expect without the ACA, it is impossible to escape that conclusion.

153
Kragar  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:58:43am
154
GlutenFreeJesus  Jan 8, 2016 • 11:59:06am

What better way to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill than to allow guns into psychiatric hospitals!

155
Tigger2  Jan 8, 2016 • 12:00:54pm

re: #152 bratwurst

Seriously. Unless they can take a break from pandering to idiots and explain what those of us with pre-existing conditions can expect without the ACA, it is impossible to escape that conclusion.

Yep I know, I have very serious Heart and Lung conditions. I was just lucky enough to get disability after fighting to get it for 4 1/2 years.

156
jaunte  Jan 8, 2016 • 12:01:32pm
157
nines09  Jan 8, 2016 • 12:02:41pm

re: #140 Dave In Austin

That is a scream. And the only sound was the sound of a Carrhart zipper……..

158
Dave In Austin  Jan 8, 2016 • 12:04:17pm

re: #157 nines09

That is a scream. And the only sound was the sound of a Carrhart zipper……..

twitter.com

159
jaunte  Jan 8, 2016 • 12:06:46pm

So you can imagine his other speeches.

160
calochortus  Jan 8, 2016 • 12:06:52pm

re: #152 bratwurst

Seriously. Unless they can take a break from pandering to idiots and explain what those of us with pre-existing conditions can expect without the ACA, it is impossible to escape that conclusion.

My nephew, who is old enough to know better-and has a serious preexisting condition-thinks that if you can buy medical insurance across state lines that there will be lots of companies competing to insure people with high medical bills at reasonable prices. Not surprisingly, he has always had good medical benefits through his employer.

161
Dave In Austin  Jan 8, 2016 • 12:07:24pm
162
Targetpractice  Jan 8, 2016 • 12:10:08pm
VI. Require a seven justice super-majority vote for U.S. Supreme Court votes that invalidate a democratically-enacted law.

Well, there go Citizens United, Heller, and Sebelius, though I’m sure they think that the latter would be a good thing…until they realize the lower court upheld the ACA in total.

163
FormerDirtDart  Jan 8, 2016 • 12:11:56pm
164
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Jan 8, 2016 • 12:12:55pm

re: #159 jaunte

This is the best speech I’ve ever seen @GovAbbott give. Strongly felt, expert and experienced. Abbott unleashed! #txlege
— EricaGrieder

Is this joke?

165
wrenchwench  Jan 8, 2016 • 12:13:55pm

Briefly irritated.

166
Tigger2  Jan 8, 2016 • 12:15:42pm

re: #164 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse

Is this joke?

Will find out soon I tweeted “Abbott the Idiot” to that person. If it’s real she won’t be able to stop herself from calling me a Libtard or something like that.

167
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 8, 2016 • 12:17:57pm
168
Eclectic Cyborg  Jan 8, 2016 • 12:20:28pm

re: #164 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse

I fear not.

169
Eventual Carrion  Jan 8, 2016 • 12:21:44pm

re: #112 wrenchwench

Something ain’t right here.

[Embedded content]

Confused and/or unstable people in need of help with readily available guns. Nothing to see here folks.

“Mandatory observation, I think not!”

170
Eventual Carrion  Jan 8, 2016 • 12:27:51pm

re: #131 Feline Fearless Leader

They had to destroy it in order to save it by resurrecting the Articles of Confederation.

That’s it. He wants to go back to that initial, failed try at building our republic. It couldn’t be done with just a few states, now he thinks it might work with almost 5 times as many states.

171
danarchy  Jan 8, 2016 • 12:33:11pm

re: #134 Decatur Deb

I vaguely remember discussions that a constitutional convention, once called, cannot be limited to the agenda offered. Lawyers out there?

Not a lawyer, but I believe that is correct. Also it only takes 2/3 of the states to call a convention but 3/4 to pass an amendment. I can’t even envision 3/4 of the states agreeing on lunch.

172
BeachDem  Jan 8, 2016 • 12:58:31pm

re: #85 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

good.
They should draw straws to pick one reporter and cameraperson to act as a pool for everyone else and put an end to this circus.

And in Michigan, other than Rachel Maddow’s coverage, a 2-1/2 minute piece on NBC, and a little blip on CNN, I could find no major network coverage since December about people being poisoned by their governor.

Press priorities. SMH

173
japa21  Jan 8, 2016 • 1:14:05pm

re: #162 Targetpractice

None of our laws are “democratically enacted”. That would require a vote of the whole populace on every law.

174
BeachDem  Jan 8, 2016 • 1:20:45pm

re: #164 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse

Is this joke?

She’s theorizing dreaming about the possibility of Abbott protege Cruz as president in 2017, so I don’t think she’s joking.

175
KiTA  Jan 8, 2016 • 1:27:27pm

re: #39 CuriousLurker

Yeah, totally rational & non-violent, like this one:

Except, as mentioned (and linked!) in the article, the person who was attacked was from Veterans on Patrol, which at first glance appears to be all about helping Homeless vets.

Now, it’s possible they’re actually ultra-right leaning and as much a danger as the rest of them — at the very least, they have a paramilitary vibe that I find…disquieting, but that sort of thing may be useful to help veterans in crisis integrate better. Either way, at first glance this appears to be the ultra-right attacking a group of veterans’ activists that are trying to talk everyone down.

For example, I found this Facebook post from their linked FB:

Facebook Post

At a time to be determine in the evening on Tuesday, January 5th - Veterans On Patrol is mobilizing a Crisis Response Team along with a Humanitarian Aid convoy to Burns, Oregon.

‪#‎OperationAnonPatriot‬’s objectives are to extract a Warfighter in Crisis, provide humanitarian aid to those who will remain, and attempt to mediate a peaceful resolution.

The POA created is Community First based. Our team will reach out to all local residents and businesses offering them full disclosure of our Operation and intentions.

Are they nuts? I don’t know. I’ve done all of 2 minutes of research on this, part of which was the article quoted in the OP. However, they apparently are mostly concerned with an openly suicidal vet involved who wants to perform suicide by fed, which would entail causing the entire mess to go critical so he can go down in a blaze of glory. They also specifically mentioned wanting to get the women and children out, who would effectively be hostages if things got worse at the encampment.

If those are taken at face value, they’re admirable goals. Now, again, it could be a shell game and these guys could just be as bad as the Oath Keepers with slightly more sane PR people running their social media accounts, I don’t know.

176
m0nkeyb0y  Jan 8, 2016 • 1:41:43pm

re: #151 ObserverArt

I’m trying to wrap my head around a governor of a state that is very pro-gun like Texas and doesn’t want any reinterpretations of the Second Amendment does want to completely change all the other aspects of the U.S. Constitution.

There is not a damn thing in this thinking that is real conservatism.

Abbott and his other Texas pols like Dan Patrick, etc. are a true danger to this country and everything it has stood for for 238+ years.

His is radical proposal is emphatically NOT conservative

177
Emperor_J_Norton_VI  Jan 8, 2016 • 1:51:58pm

re: #5 Shiplord Kirel

Embedded Image

Just as we planned. All is unfolding as it should.

This can’t be right. Where is Dr. Mrs. The Monarch? Where is Sovereign?

178
sizzzzlerz  Jan 8, 2016 • 2:06:41pm

We’re the People’s Front of Judea!

No, we are the Judean People’s Front!

People’s Front of Judea!
Judean People’s Front!

<blam!>

<blam!> <blam!>

179
majii  Jan 8, 2016 • 4:30:05pm

re: #143 lawhawk

Well, we must remember that one of Abbott’s talking points for why he should succeed Perry was that he has sued the federal government on every issue. He seems to be continuing that practice because earlier this week, he sued the federal government to prevent Syrian refugees from coming to Texas. I think he knows better, but I also think he has his eye on occupying a higher office in the federal government, and he thinks that opposing everything the federal government does is the way to reach that goal. He reminds me of Roy Moore in Alabama. Not for one minute do I believe Moore doesn’t know he can’t nullify a Supreme Ct. decision, but he wants to be governor after Bentley leaves and is hoping that his fight against same-sex marriage in Alabama is the ticket to winning the next gubernatorial election. I view these tools as being willing to do/say anything that helps them reach their personal/political goals. This indicates to me that they have zero enduring principles, and that they’re some manipulative SOBS who are not averse to manipulating others’ emotions to serve their own purposes.


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