Bernie Sanders: Sandy Hook Parents Shouldn’t Be Allowed to Sue Gun Manufacturers

Guns
Politics • Views: 59,893

This is tomorrow’s front page of the New York Daily News.

I started writing this post as an excuse for Bernie Sanders, saying that Sanders wasn’t asked specifically about the Newtown massacre when he said gun manufacturers should be protected from lawsuits. I guess I didn’t want to believe he’d actually say something like this.

But then I read the full transcript of the NY Daily News interview, and yes, he really was asked specifically about that case.

Daily News: There’s a case currently waiting to be ruled on in Connecticut. The victims of the Sandy Hook massacre are looking to have the right to sue for damages the manufacturers of the weapons. Do you think that that is something that should be expanded?

Sanders: Do I think the victims of a crime with a gun should be able to sue the manufacturer, is that your question?

Daily News: Correct.

Sanders: No, I don’t.

Daily News: Let me ask you. I know we’re short on time. Two quick questions. Your website talks about…

Sanders: No, let me just…I’m sorry. In the same sense that if you’re a gun dealer and you sell me a gun and I go out and I kill him [gestures to someone in room]…. Do I think that that gun dealer should be sued for selling me a legal product that he misused? [Shakes head no.] But I do believe that gun manufacturers and gun dealers should be able to be sued when they should know that guns are going into the hands of wrong people. So if somebody walks in and says, “I’d like 10,000 rounds of ammunition,” you know, well, you might be suspicious about that. So I think there are grounds for those suits, but not if you sell me a legal product.

This is bad thinking. And it’s striking to contrast this with Sanders’ calls to break up big banks, even though they’re also selling legal products. Why does Bernie Sanders think banks need to be cracked down upon — but not companies that manufacture products intended to kill large numbers of people?

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231 comments
1
Schroedinger's Dog  Apr 5, 2016 • 6:24:15pm

Sanders and Cruz both projected to win Wisconsin.

2
goddamnedfrank  Apr 5, 2016 • 6:31:24pm

Reposts from last thread because it’s relevant here.

re: #143 Great White Snark

I kind of split the difference. I see no real reason why gun manufacturers should have absolute immunity from lawsuits under the law when car manufacturers don’t. On the other and I don’t think illegal use should result in a judgement necessarily by itself.

Take Paul Walker’s daughter’s suit against Porsche, it was allowed to go forward and a Judge ruled Porsche not at fault. In order to win the complaint had to prove that Porsche had created the car in a way that subverted the regulatory scheme. The courts would presumably hold the same standard in any firearm manufacturer lawsuit.

In fact prior to the federal immunity law that’s how we got many improvements to firearm safety like the transfer bar and cross bolt safety mechanisms, loaded chamber indicators and magazine disconnects. These lawsuit resultant safety improvements annoyed many purists but undoubtedly prevented some accidental discharges and some people are certainly still alive as a result.

3
EPR-radar  Apr 5, 2016 • 6:32:54pm

re: #2 goddamnedfrank

Does federal immunity law with respect to gun makers exempt them from ordinary product liability?

4
The Vicious Babushka  Apr 5, 2016 • 6:33:50pm

I’m so depressed now :(

5
goddamnedfrank  Apr 5, 2016 • 6:35:01pm

re: #3 EPR-radar

Does federal immunity law with respect to gun makers exempt them from ordinary product liability?

No. If a revolver detonates in your hand with standard load factory ammunition because of defective metallurgy in the cylinder the manufacturer can currently still be sued.

6
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Apr 5, 2016 • 6:35:32pm

Cigarettes, used as intended, has the potential to result in the death of the person who uses them. Potentially others as well.

We’ve somehow managed to regulate them without making them completely unavailable.

Of course, the concept of doing the same for guns is a pipe dream.

7
Charles Johnson  Apr 5, 2016 • 6:39:10pm

Our national gun violence nightmare will only end when the companies that manufacture and sell millions of lethal weapons face legal consequences for their actions, just like the tobacco industry did — and guns are far more lethal than tobacco.

This country is not sane when it comes to guns.

8
EPR-radar  Apr 5, 2016 • 6:40:58pm

re: #6 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Cigarettes, used as intended, has the potential to result in the death of the person who uses them. Potentially others as well.

We’ve somehow managed to regulate them without making them completely unavailable.

Of course, the concept of doing the same for guns is a pipe dream.

Too true.

It really pains me to say that I disagree with our host and the NYDN here. I can’t think of a single legal liability theory that could be used against makers of guns that are used in crimes that would not also have massive unintended consequences if applied in any broad way.

If vicarious liability is going to attach only to gun makers, then there should be an honest discussion of what to make legal and illegal, rather than a lawsuit circus.

9
Charles Johnson  Apr 5, 2016 • 6:43:14pm

Pretty insane that we can regulate a natural substance that causes disease and death over the long term, but not a manufactured product that kills or maims instantly.

Houston, we have a problem.

10
gocart mozart  Apr 5, 2016 • 6:43:59pm

re: #3 EPR-radar

Does federal immunity law with respect to gun makers exempt them from ordinary product liability?

No, but how was Lanza’s gun defective? It seems to have worked very effectively.

11
b_sharp  Apr 5, 2016 • 6:46:19pm

Fow a while I’ve really wanted to do a series of polls to get a feel for the demographics of LGF. I think we’re a quite diverse set of people and I’m really curious about it.

I’m not sure if I should do it though, primarily because it doesn’t really matter and is just a curiosity thing.

And possibly bragging rights…

12
Charles Johnson  Apr 5, 2016 • 6:47:08pm

re: #10 gocart mozart

No, but how was Lanza’s gun defective? It seems to have worked very effectively.

Lanza’s gun worked as intended.

The problem was the person operating it.

13
Stanley Sea  Apr 5, 2016 • 6:47:56pm

re: #11 b_sharp

do it.

14
goddamnedfrank  Apr 5, 2016 • 6:48:07pm

re: #6 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Cigarettes, used as intended, has the potential to result in the death of the person who uses them. Potentially others as well.

We’ve somehow managed to regulate them without making them completely unavailable.

Of course, the concept of doing the same for guns is a pipe dream.

We could actually regulate handguns fairly heavily given the right amount of political will. I think given a forward thinking Legislature and SCOTUS we could even place all handguns under the auspices of the National Firearms Act. We could then raise the $200 Federal Tax Stamp to account for inflation since 1934, making each handgun transfer cost $3,538.97 and take nine months.

15
Charles Johnson  Apr 5, 2016 • 6:48:32pm

Typical. Criticize Sanders and his fans accuse you of being a shill for Hillary Clinton.

16
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Apr 5, 2016 • 6:48:41pm

re: #14 goddamnedfrank

We could actually regulate handguns fairly heavily given the right amount of political will. I think given a forward thinking Legislature and SCOTUS we could even place all handguns under the auspices of the National Firearms Act. We could then raise the $200 Federal Tax Stamp to account for inflation since 1934, making each handgun transfer cost $3,538.97 and take nine months.

I like the symbolism of it taking nine months. I approve.

17
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Apr 5, 2016 • 6:49:38pm

re: #10 gocart mozart

No, but how was Lanza’s gun defective? It seems to have worked very effectively.

we have been unable to sue god for his many defective products, a number of whom have been able to get their hands on guns

or maybe that’s “gubs”

18
CuriousLurker  Apr 5, 2016 • 6:50:34pm

re: #11 b_sharp

I’m not sure if I should do it though, primarily because it doesn’t really matter and is just a curiosity thing.

re: #13 Stanley Sea

do it.

Seconded—do it. Just keep tabs on the comments in case the scales start flying.

19
Sophist, Premature Anti-Trumpist  Apr 5, 2016 • 6:50:42pm
So if somebody walks in and says, “I’d like 10,000 rounds of ammunition,” you know, well, you might be suspicious about that. So I think there are grounds for those suits, but not if you sell me a legal product.

I’m sorry, Bernie, unless selling someone 10,000 rounds has been made illegal, you’re still advocating suing someone for selling “a legal product”.

20
EPR-radar  Apr 5, 2016 • 6:51:24pm

re: #10 gocart mozart

No, but how was Lanza’s gun defective? It seems to have worked very effectively.

That gun operated as intended in commission of a crime. No doubt about it.

My point is that I don’t see a way to sue based on this fact without also allowing a host of “X operated as intended in commission of a crime” lawsuits that nobody would think reasonable. (My question to GDF was to see if NRA insanity as passed by congress has actually managed to get rid of ordinary product liability)

The remote chance of progress on guns in the US is not helped, IMO, by proposing (in effect) massive changes to the entire legal system to go after guns indirectly (via liability) instead of directly.

21
Weaselone  Apr 5, 2016 • 6:51:24pm

re: #8 EPR-radar

Except the issue here is that gun manufacturers have been explicitly granted special protection from liability that we don’t grant to other tool manufacturers.

22
goddamnedfrank  Apr 5, 2016 • 6:52:07pm

re: #16 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I like the symbolism of it taking nine months. I approve.

Bear in mind that number keeps going up because inflation keeps making the tax stamp more affordable year after year. ATF personnel have become swamped under a backlog of applications for NFA weapons. So if we raise the tax to account for inflation the wait time will drop dramatically.

23
GlutenFreeJesus  Apr 5, 2016 • 6:52:25pm

Yearly competency tests for gun owners. Each gun tested separately. $25-50 a test.

National gun registry.

Insane fines if you fail to get tested.

It’s not taking away your right to own guns. But it is making sure you should own them.

Pipe dream for now, but a legitimate route that can be taken locally in the same manner the right is going after Planned Parenthood and minorities.

24
stpaulbear  Apr 5, 2016 • 6:52:33pm

re: #1 Schroedinger’s Dog

Sanders and Cruz both projected to win Wisconsin.

So how large is Sander’s lead? Will he wind up with maybe a gain of 10 delegates over Hillary?

25
retired cynic  Apr 5, 2016 • 6:52:42pm

Just heard an interview with Foster Friess (spelling?) on NPR as part of the Wisconsin primary reporting, and he was boosting Trump. Good lord, what an idiot, who just couldn’t stop talking!

26
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Apr 5, 2016 • 6:52:44pm

re: #14 goddamnedfrank

We could actually regulate handguns fairly heavily given the right amount of political will. I think given a forward thinking Legislature and SCOTUS we could even place all handguns under the auspices of the National Firearms Act. We could then raise the $200 Federal Tax Stamp to account for inflation since 1934, making each handgun transfer cost $3,538.97 and take nine months.

some purchases might be aborted in the first trimester

27
goddamnedfrank  Apr 5, 2016 • 6:53:33pm

re: #22 goddamnedfrank

So if we raise the tax to account for inflation the wait time will drop dramatically.

Obviously I wasn’t thinking about the cause and effect here in my #14.

28
The Vicious Babushka  Apr 5, 2016 • 6:53:50pm

re: #25 retired cynic

Just heard an interview with Foster Friess (spelling?) on NPR as part of the Wisconsin primary reporting, and he was boosting Trump. Good lord, what an idiot, who just couldn’t stop talking!

He is the asshole who recommended aspirin as a birth control device. JUST HOLD THAT PILL BETWEEN UR LEGS HURR HURR

29
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Apr 5, 2016 • 6:53:58pm

re: #22 goddamnedfrank

Bear in mind that number keeps going up because inflation keeps making the tax stamp more affordable year after year. ATF personnel have become swamped under a backlog of applications for NFA weapons. So if we raise the tax to account for inflation the wait time will drop dramatically.

Nah, if women need an enforced waiting period for having an abortion, I think an enforced waiting period to prevent a hothead from getting their hands on a gun that they could take and go kill someone with is an excellent idea. Nine months sounds perfectly reasonable.

/

30
Sophist, Premature Anti-Trumpist  Apr 5, 2016 • 6:54:42pm

re: #20 EPR-radar

My point is that I don’t see a way to sue based on this fact without also allowing a host of “X operated as intended in commission of a crime” lawsuits that nobody would think reasonable.

Tobacco companies were gone after for marketing to kids. Could you go after gun companies for marketing designed to appeal to people who want guns for nefarious purposes?

31
gocart mozart  Apr 5, 2016 • 6:55:27pm

re: #20 EPR-radar

I think if a gun backfired and exploded in your hand while target shooting, you can sue for injuries.

32
Belafon  Apr 5, 2016 • 6:57:10pm

We’re all hunting for something that can be done about guns, and it would be nice to be able to make it nearly impossible for a toddler to shoot someone (they shot more Americans than terrorists last year). But, ultimately, this is about regulating the sale and ownership. All gun sales should have to be registered, even if you sell it to your neighbor. And, for me, anything that we would call an assault weapon should be seriously regulated, like it has to be stored and used at a gun range.

33
The Engineer Lobuno  Apr 5, 2016 • 6:57:54pm

re: #7 Charles Johnson

Our national gun violence nightmare will only end when the companies that manufacture and sell millions of lethal weapons face legal consequences for their actions, just like the tobacco industry did — and guns are far more lethal than tobacco.

This country is not sane when it comes to guns.

I wouldn’t say that the US is not sane regarding guns. It’s more like apathetic. A loud minority is insane, and the majority just tags alone because “boys will be boys” and they “need their toys to be happy”. Until tragedy touches their lives.

34
BeachDem  Apr 5, 2016 • 6:58:16pm

re: #6 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Cigarettes, used as intended, has the potential to result in the death of the person who uses them. Potentially others as well.

We’ve somehow managed to regulate them without making them completely unavailable.

Of course, the concept of doing the same for guns is a pipe dream.

I’d really like to see a study of the medical costs from gun injuries vs. cigarettes.

I know, as a smoker, I pay higher insurance premiums and lots and lots of taxes. Why aren’t there premium adjustments and extra taxes for gun owners?

Also, it’s kind of ironic (?) that there are more and more restrictions on smoking at the same time gun toters are able to carry more and more freely, with and without any kind of licensing/training etc. (depending on the location.)

35
Great White Snark  Apr 5, 2016 • 6:58:39pm

re: #7 Charles Johnson

Our national gun violence nightmare will only end when the companies that manufacture and sell millions of lethal weapons face legal consequences for their actions, just like the tobacco industry did — and guns are far more lethal than tobacco.

This country is not sane when it comes to guns.

Guns are not addictive. This is a big stretch. Sensible gun control is not inventing maker liability out of thin air. It’s passing criminal statutes like universal registration. Enforcing straw man laws. The things we know work. I think there was a Page a few weeks ago, showed how well certain measures do work.

Again the inherent unfairness of blaming a maker of a product for criminal misuse makes the whole idea a non starter. When we can be deliberately unfair to attack one kind of manufacturer, the rest exist at the whim of the public. Remember prohibition? Did not end well. And alcohol is addictive unlike a firearm.

36
calochortus  Apr 5, 2016 • 6:59:18pm

re: #24 stpaulbear

So how large is Sander’s lead? Will he wind up with maybe a gain of 10 delegates over Hillary?

Looks like he gains 16 delegates over Hillary.

37
EPR-radar  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:00:11pm

re: #21 Weaselone

Except the issue here is that gun manufacturers have been explicitly granted special protection from liability that we don’t grant to other tool manufacturers.

It sounds like the devil is in the details here.

AFAIK, no manufacturer is responsible for crimes committed by a purchaser of their product. Every manufacturer is still subject to ordinary product liability for defective/dangerous product when used as intended.

So the Federal immunity the gun makers have is apparently limited to some special cases (most likely relating to lawsuits alleging improper design that makes accidental discharge too likely, from previous comments).

If so, then this federal immunity is a fairly small, but irritating, part of the US gun insanity zone.

38
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:01:01pm

re: #34 BeachDem

I’d really like to see a study of the medical costs from gun injuries vs. cigarettes.

I know, as a smoker, I pay higher insurance premiums and lots and lots of taxes. Why aren’t there premium adjustments and extra taxes for gun owners?

Also, it’s kind of ironic (?) that there are more and more restrictions on smoking at the same time gun toters are able to carry more and more freely, with and without any kind of licensing/training etc. (depending on the location.)

And we can’t get government funding to study any of this, because guns.

39
Belafon  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:01:03pm

And now we wait two weeks for New York.

40
EPR-radar  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:01:30pm

re: #29 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Nah, if women need an enforced waiting period for having an abortion, I think an enforced waiting period to prevent a hothead from getting their hands on a gun that they could take and go kill someone with is an excellent idea. Nine months sounds perfectly reasonable.

/

Counseling. Lots and lots of counseling.

Where the only office in which the counseling is given is in the middle of the big cat enclosure in a zoo five states away.

41
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:01:33pm

re: #35 Great White Snark

Guns aren’t addictive? Gee, how do you explain some of the gun collections we keep hearing about…

///

42
Decatur Deb  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:02:42pm

re: #41 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Guns aren’t addictive? Gee, how do you explain some of the gun collections we keep hearing about…

///

Fear is addictive.

43
Bass Reeves  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:03:15pm

Lawn darts? How did those go away?

44
Great White Snark  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:03:56pm

re: #37 EPR-radar

Yeah, conflating a dangerously made gun with criminal misuse in a liability sense is just confusing. It’s well established that a dangerous flaw creates liability. But until Ford gets held liable for a guy driving through a crowd in anger we simply have no precedent. Cigs are dangerous when used as directed. Nobody at a gun maker is directing anyone to criminal or suicidal use. Big diff. I gotta walk away to make dinner you guys have fun.

45
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:04:02pm

re: #42 Decatur Deb

Fear is addictive.

Especially fear of gun control, right?

I’m pretty sure gun manufacturers are doing just fine and could survive a lawsuit or two.

46
Great White Snark  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:04:32pm

re: #43 Bass Reeves

Was that criminal misuse? No?

BBL

47
goddamnedfrank  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:04:48pm

One thing I’d really like to see is a sober assessment of statistical risk in drafting any policy proposals. Political capital is always a finite resource and handguns are the weapons involved in some 85% or so of every kind of firearms offense. I have no problem at all with regulating semi-automatic assault rifles and feel for the survivors and families of victims of mass shootings, but if we let the crimes that get lots of news coverage determine what we choose to focus on first we’re going to start off nibbling away at a small slice of the pie. The problem with that is that when our already historically low homicide rate doesn’t fall appreciably the opponents of gun control will gain a big rhetorical talking point. If we’re about making lasting progress we have to be a bit cold and pragmatic about how we prioritize and schedule our efforts.

48
bratwurst  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:04:59pm

A Ted Cruz speech is what a dumb person thinks a smart person should sound like.

49
jaunte  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:08:51pm

Alternate realities, adjacent on my timeline.

50
Weaselone  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:10:07pm

re: #44 Great White Snark

Depends. If a large portion of Ford’s advertising campaign involved demonstrating how effectively their vehicles could kill people, their might be a case.

51
BeachDem  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:10:07pm

re: #19 Sophist, Premature Anti-Trumpist

I’m sorry, Bernie, unless selling someone 10,000 rounds has been made illegal, you’re still advocating suing someone for selling “a legal product”.

Using another comparison, alcohol is legal, but there have been cases of bars being sued for serving to people who were intoxicated and then got into accidents.

If you get hit by a drunk driver and can prove that the driver got drunk in a bar, you may have a dram shop case against that bar, depending on the evidence.

A “third party” dram shop case exists when the injured person is someone other than the drunk person. So, if you are hit by a drunk driver, and the driver got drunk at a bar, you would potentially have a third party dram shop case against the bar.

alllaw.com

I know—that’s the seller rather than the manufacturer but,

The Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act (PLCAA) is a United States law which protects firearms manufacturers and dealers from being held liable when crimes have been committed with their products.

52
goddamnedfrank  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:10:09pm

re: #41 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Guns aren’t addictive? Gee, how do you explain some of the gun collections we keep hearing about…

///

Guns are cool. I realize that’s a purely subjective assessment but to me they just are. The intricate mechanical engineering that goes into their operation is just neat. They’re also deadly as fuck which makes them different from other neat little mechanical devices like typewriters.

For a lot of people though the sense of power a gun conveys absolutely is addictive, and just as dangerous as the gun itself.

53
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:10:29pm

I’d bang my head into the wall that is trying to make a point but it never makes any difference so I’m not going to bother tonight.

There’s still three beds to be made, plus clean laundry to be folded and put away.

54
EPR-radar  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:12:20pm

re: #47 goddamnedfrank

One thing I’d really like to see is a sober assessment of statistical risk in drafting any policy proposals. Political capital is always a finite resource and handguns are the weapons involved in some 85% or so of every kind of firearms offense. I have no problem at all with regulating semi-automatic assault rifles and feel for the survivors and families of victims of mass shootings, but if we let the crimes that get lots of news coverage determine what we choose to focus on first we’re going to start off nibbling away at a small slice of the pie. The problem with that is that when our already historically low homicide rate doesn’t fall appreciably the opponents of gun control will gain a big rhetorical talking point. If we’re about making lasting progress we have to be a bit cold and pragmatic about how we prioritize and schedule our efforts.

Another cold-blooded point is that wild talk about completely novel theories of legal liability seems unlikely to be politically useful. Why propose stuff that gets mixed reviews on the gun-control side and total or near total opposition from the persuadables?

55
The Vicious Babushka  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:13:06pm

THIS IS CLASS==>

56
BeachDem  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:13:44pm

re: #26 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸

some purchases might be aborted in the first trimester

But, but that would be punishing the innocent gun—we can’t have that.
//

57
Belafon  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:14:29pm

re: #52 goddamnedfrank

Guns are cool. I realize that’s a purely subjective assessment but to me they just are. The intricate mechanical engineering that goes into their operation is just neat. They’re also deadly as fuck which makes them different from other neat little mechanical devices like typewriters.

For a lot of people though the sense of power a gun conveys absolutely is addictive, and just as dangerous as the gun itself.

And that’s ultimately our problem. We cannot take that into account with guns. Car companies are building self-braking cars now. They’re actively making them harder to use wrong. Gun manufactures, dealers, and the public in general, aren’t being required to deal with the fact that guns are dangerous. And when there is an outcry, a small minority holds more sway.

58
withak  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:14:39pm

re: #49 jaunte

Embedded Image

Alternate realities, adjacent on my timeline.

“Devastating victory.” Right. We don’t even know the margin of victory yet. Bernie could “win,” but if he doesn’t win by enough, he just falls further behind.

Math, how does it work!?

59
Bass Reeves  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:18:54pm

re: #46 Great White Snark

No, kids killing kids with lawn darts wasn’t through criminal misuse, just obvious predictable consequence of slight mishandling of the product.

I’m not arguing for gun manufacturers to be sued however, I’d rather go after the sellers for not using enough discretion.

However, as with the self-braking cars, so too goes the biometric enabled firearm, and THAT gets as much pushback as anything.

60
Reality Based Steve  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:20:16pm

Night all. Be good, and if you can’t be good, at least don’t be a dick about it.

RBS

61
EPR-radar  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:20:28pm

re: #57 Belafon

And that’s ultimately our problem. We cannot take that into account with guns. Car companies are building self-braking cars now. They’re actively making them harder to use wrong. Gun manufactures, dealers, and the public in general, aren’t being required to deal with the fact that guns are dangerous. And when there is an outcry, a small minority holds more sway.

There is no gun analogy for the self-braking car, and there won’t be. Even when used correctly, a gun is essentially a lethal weapon in a way that a car simply isn’t.

62
b_sharp  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:20:47pm

re: #18 CuriousLurker

Seconded—do it. Just keep tabs on the comments in case the scales start flying.

I’ll do it. I just have to consider how to word the polls.

63
BeachDem  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:21:42pm

re: #55 The Vicious Babushka

THIS IS CLASS==>

[Embedded content]

And this is Bernie:

The corporate media and political establishment keep counting us out, but we keep winning states and doing so by large margins. If we can keep this up, we’re going to shock them all and win this nomination.

Contribute to our campaign tonight and we are going to keep winning states by large margins until we win this nomination and take our country back from the billionaire class.

64
Belafon  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:21:43pm

Wikipedia has a pretty good page on the Democratic Primary. It has recently added a couple of good charts:

Delegate Graphs
65
cat-tikvah  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:23:06pm

re: #40 EPR-radar

Some sort of invasive probe is also needed.

66
BeachDem  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:23:19pm

re: #52 goddamnedfrank

Guns are cool. I realize that’s a purely subjective assessment but to me they just are. The intricate mechanical engineering that goes into their operation is just neat. They’re also deadly as fuck which makes them different from other neat little mechanical devices like typewriters.

For a lot of people though the sense of power a gun conveys absolutely is addictive, and just as dangerous as the gun itself.

What’s your take on this new gun that looks like a cell phone? I can’t believe they are actually going to let that go on the market.

67
Stanley Sea  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:23:35pm

re: #62 b_sharp

I’ll do it. I just have to consider how to word the polls.

Like a census. heh

68
Belafon  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:23:44pm

re: #61 EPR-radar

There is no gun analogy for the self-braking car, and there won’t be. Even when used correctly, a gun is essentially a lethal weapon in a way that a car simply isn’t.

Remember how the idea of making a gun sense if it’s owner was using it was crushed? And don’t argue that the technology wasn’t viable, that wasn’t why it was stopped. If we can build stuff like that self-braking cars, we can think of ways of making guns harder to use for people who don’t own them.

Edited.

69
goddamnedfrank  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:23:58pm

re: #57 Belafon

And that’s ultimately our problem. We cannot take that into account with guns. Car companies are building self-braking cars now. They’re actively making them harder to use wrong. Gun manufactures, dealers, and the public in general, aren’t being required to deal with the fact that guns are dangerous. And when there is an outcry, a small minority holds more sway.

If we’re being honest we do have to reckon with the 2nd Amendment in conjunction with the fact that our country has had private gun ownership throughout its entire history. No matter how we choose to re-interpret its admittedly vague language, this isn’t akin to taking the plain passage in the 14th Amendment equal protection clause and saying gays are persons under the law now because of course they are. For one thing our legal jurisprudence has pretty much always tilted towards expanding the definition personal civil rights and almost never flows in the other direction.

We can regulate quite a bit here in the name of public safety but eventually we are going to be a practical limit unless we pass and ratify a new Amendment.

70
EPR-radar  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:24:35pm

re: #65 cat-tikvah

Some sort of invasive probe is also needed.

How could I forget the probe? It needs to be about as wide as a fire hydrant.

71
teleskiguy  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:26:04pm
72
Stanley Sea  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:26:46pm

Has Drumpf tweeted yet? Congrats to lyin ted?

73
Belafon  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:26:55pm

re: #69 goddamnedfrank

Agree. That’s why I included the public in the list of groups that needed to deal with guns realistically. And I’m trying to be realistic in saying it won’t be easy.

74
goddamnedfrank  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:27:36pm

re: #66 BeachDem

What’s your take on this new gun that looks like a cell phone? I can’t believe they are actually going to let that go on the market.

Technically legal as an AOW (Any Other Weapon) under the NFA. This means States can choose not to allow them at all, the tax stamp is only $5 instead of $200, and there’s still going to be a very long wait (currently nine months.)

My personal view is they shouldn’t be legal at all, they have no legit use that I can imagine. They seem like they’re explicitly designed as assassination tools.

75
b_sharp  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:27:58pm

re: #67 Stanley Sea

Like a census. heh

That would work, but it makes for more work for me. I’ll think about it tonight.

76
Stanley Sea  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:28:50pm
77
Stanley Sea  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:29:58pm

re: #74 goddamnedfrank

Technically legal as an AOW (Any Other Weapon) under the NFA. This means States can choose not to allow them at all, the tax stamp is only $5 instead of $200, and there’s still going to be a very long wait (currently nine months.)

My personal view is they shouldn’t be legal at all, they have no legit use that I can imagine. They seem like they’re explicitly designed as assassination tools.

And every cop is going to think they are in every person’s hands. Because Cop Fear.

78
Belafon  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:30:03pm

re: #76 Stanley Sea

79
jaunte  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:31:21pm

re: #55 The Vicious Babushka

THIS IS CLASS==>

[Embedded content]

And predictably, the opposite:

80
EPR-radar  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:31:28pm

re: #77 Stanley Sea

And every cop is going to think they are in every person’s hands. Because Cop Fear.

Not me. No cell phone. But the cell phone gun is way up there on the list of the stupidest ideas of all time.

81
Stanley Sea  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:32:13pm

I looked, Drumpf’s last tweet = 4 hrs ago.

He’s coloring his hair. Or in an exhaustive coma.

oops, too soon.

lyin ted of course.

82
BeachDem  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:32:20pm

re: #74 goddamnedfrank

Technically legal as an AOW (Any Other Weapon) under the NFA. This means States can choose not to allow them at all, the tax stamp is only $5 instead of $200, and there’s still going to be a very long wait (currently nine months.)

My personal view is they shouldn’t be legal at all, they have no legit use that I can imagine. They seem like they’re explicitly designed as assassination tools.

I’m just astounded there hasn’t been more of an uproar about them. Totally creeps me out. There really is no legitimate purpose for them that I can see (I’m sure the NRA will come up with some FREEDUMB explanation.) Wonder how they’ll scan at airports?

83
Decatur Deb  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:32:26pm

re: #74 goddamnedfrank

Technically legal as an AOW (Any Other Weapon) under the NFA. This means States can choose not to allow them at all, the tax stamp is only $5 instead of $200, and there’s still going to be a very long wait (currently nine months.)

My personal view is they shouldn’t be legal at all, they have no legit use that I can imagine. They seem like they’re explicitly designed as assassination tools.

They are a supposed answer to strict interpretation of the ‘concealed’ part of concealed carry. In some locations the sloppy or accidental reveal of a CW (‘printing’) carries sharp penalties.

OTOH, I can’t imagine many situations where a 2-shot inaccurate short barrel would not be worse than no gun at all.

84
A Cranky One  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:32:43pm

There are two issues when discussing gun manufacturer liability.

First, there is the question of making a a product invented and designed for one purpose: to kill. Should manufacturers be liable for that? Since hunting and self defense are legitimate uses of the product, liability for other use is questionable and difficult to justify. Knifes, axes, cars, etc. can also be used to kill and I wouldn’t consider the manufacturers liable in that instance. Yes, guns are different in that unlike other tools, the main purpose is to kill. But I believe the principal applies despite that difference.

Second, there is the question of how the gun manufacturers promote and sell their products. This is a completely different question. If a gun manufacturer targets children with product lines and advertising, and children die as a result, should they be liable? I don’t think a naive “It never occurred to us that it would be dangerous for kids to have guns” excuse would fly. The industry, unfortunately, gets endless promotion from the NRA and RWNJ gun fetishists, promoting the “more guns, more places, all the time for safety” mantra. Direct responsibility is difficult to demonstrate, so the question of liability is difficult at best.

How the manufacturers sell the weapons is also a consideration. If anyone could drive up to the factory, buy 100 guns and then sell them from a car trunk at a high school, in my mind the factory would be extremely negligent. And here’s where I have my biggest issue: the reality isn’t that much different than the hypothetical example. It’s simply too easy to buy guns and the manufacturers do everything in their power to keep it that way.

The gun industry isn’t liable for making guns. But I personally think they’re negligent in how they market and sell their product.

85
EPR-radar  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:33:26pm

re: #79 jaunte

Trump’s comments may have no class, but there is also an unusual degree of truth in there, in the parts where he is talking about Cruz and the GOP establishment.

86
BeachDem  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:33:49pm

re: #77 Stanley Sea

And every cop is going to think they are in every black person’s hands. Because Cop Fear.

fify

87
Stanley Sea  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:34:29pm

Make America Great Again

88
ObserverArt  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:36:38pm

Rats…didn’t see another thread popped up. I’m too far behind.

I just posted a comment to a comment made by Great White Snark in the previous thread, so here it is again. Sorry.

- - -

re: #174 Great White Snark (previous thread)

Right spell check fail on my part. We agree the violence must be reduced. We see how to do that very differently. I’m not throwing up my hands and giving up in the face of the likes of the NRA or due to opposite extreme proposals like a new background check every time I buy a bullet. (Proposed by Gavin Newsom here in Ca) Sensible solutions are available, it’s on us to pass and enforce them.

I think it is too safe to utter those words in the face of the facts that it almost assured that nothing as far as regulation and enforcement is probably ever going to happen. I think those are just excuses backed by the fact that nothing is being done. But that is my opinion. I do think you know that though. So in that light it is easy just to say we need to do something when we do nothing.

Would you be up for going into a home of a gun owner that took his pistol and shot and killed family members and explaining all those points to the remaining family and friends? And if not, why not?

You have all your statistics to back you up.

And would you face the same type of problems explaining the statistics of cars to a family that was killed in a car accident? If not, why not?

All the statistics are there for cars too.

I would suggest the people affected by a murder or suicide are not going to buy the common use argument that guns are not used to kill humans. Especially pistols/handguns/revolvers.

And speaking of handguns. Why did the police have to go to semi-auto pistols when they used to use revolvers? Could it be the common use of pistols increased the odds against them on the streets? Why is that? They aren’t defending themselves from hunters and target shooters.

By the way…you know I am a car lover. I am offended when cars are compared to guns. Deaths in cars happen in completely different ways. I can’t drive my car into a bank, jewlery or convenience store and use it to force them to give me all their money.

Why is that?

89
Great White Snark  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:38:38pm

The correct answer to the question asked of Bernie was that the Sandy Hook parents should be able to sue those responsible under US criminal and civil codes.
Was that so hard? Sheesh.

BTW that headline is so loaded with emotional baggage it makes “have you stopped beating your wife yet” sound reasonable.

90
teleskiguy  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:39:14pm

Erick Son of Erick is realizing how dumb and hateful his readers are. I say

91
Charles Johnson  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:40:26pm
92
MsJ  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:42:21pm

And today’s onslaught of Bernie emails begins.

93
teleskiguy  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:43:47pm
94
Stanley Sea  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:44:23pm
95
b_sharp  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:44:31pm

There are no threads, there are only words.

96
Stanley Sea  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:44:53pm

Bill Mitchell = creepy

97
A Cranky One  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:47:24pm

re: #95 b_sharp

There are no threads, there are only words.

So Klys’s hobby is actually cross words?

Puzzling.

98
stpaulbear  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:51:45pm

re: #92 MsJ

And today’s onslaught of Bernie emails begins.

I actually unfriended the 61 year old Berniebot on my timeline. He just kept reposting more and more shrill stuff - the moronic stuff we make fun of at LGF. I didn’t think he’d get this bad, but he did.

99
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:51:56pm

re: #97 A Cranky One

So Klys’s hobby is actually cross words?

Puzzling.

It remains, however, peaceable and unlikely to result in accidental death.

100
FormerDirtDart  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:52:02pm

OT:
1. After spending the last week packing, and the last 2 days loading and unloading a U-Haul, I have deduced I possess way too much crap.

2. Performing said move alone was definitely one of my most foolhardy decisions thus far.

101
Belafon  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:52:58pm

re: #92 MsJ

And today’s onslaught of Bernie emails begins.

Is anyone cynical enough to send a “Hillary Blows Out Sanders” email to all of these people in two weeks?

102
teleskiguy  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:53:12pm

re: #100 FormerDirtDart

You jetting from Jacksonville?

103
Great White Snark  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:54:06pm

re: #88 ObserverArt

Would I want to try to justify a sad tragedy to a grieving family? On what planet is that a good idea? Why would I suddenly pretend that statistics for all their actual practical value have any meaning in a time like that? This makes no sense. No more sense than pretending the tragedy is the most common use of a gun. I have lost two colleagues to gun violence in robberies. I do not, did not blame the guns. There is only one kind of dead. I still have my gun in case they try it at my office. I will have more than strong language at hand should violence come to me and mine. may as well ask me to speak to those hypothetical but possible robbers families. Will a felons son forgive me for saving my own life? I doubt it.

The police went to better pistols when they faced better modern guns and rifles. They also got radios and helicopters.

Cars are used in crimes. Hence car jacking. Smash drive through the front and grab what they can. Or even worse kidnapping and rape then murders. “get in the trunk” is a death sentence.

104
Stanley Sea  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:54:26pm

Was it Eric who had the intervention with his Mom? Did I miss the outcome?

LGF updates. Started by Former Dirt Dart.

105
gocart mozart  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:54:37pm
106
Belafon  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:55:21pm

re: #103 Great White Snark

I like that my car has a handle inside the trunk that glows in the dark and has a picture of an open trunk, an arrow, and a person jumping out.

107
Charles Johnson  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:55:40pm
108
FormerDirtDart  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:55:41pm

re: #102 teleskiguy

You jetting from Jacksonville?

No. moving across town. Been renting a condo month-to-month and the landlord decided he had greater need for the dwelling than I.

109
b_sharp  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:56:56pm

re: #106 Belafon

I like that my car has a handle inside the trunk that glows in the dark and has a picture of an open trunk, an arrow, and a person jumping out.

I’m sorry, but how are you supposed to transport the captured bad guys if they can pop the trunk from inside?

110
Belafon  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:56:57pm

re: #107 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

I also missed when this site was “for” Bernie.

111
stpaulbear  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:57:59pm

re: #100 FormerDirtDart

2. Performing said move alone was definitely one of my most foolhardy decisions thus far.

Do you own furniture like dressers and sofas? How did you move alone??

I haven’t moved for 20 years, but I managed to fill up a 16’ truck with stuff from a 400 square foot apartment. I found out it was a lot easier to get friends to help me move when I could tell them that I’d hired three guys to move the heavy stuff. With the help, we were done with the move out and the move in within 3 hours. I only moved about 5 miles.

112
jaunte  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:58:00pm

Turned on Bernie. Don’t want to picture it.

113
BeachDem  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:59:29pm

re: #92 MsJ

And today’s onslaught of Bernie emails begins.

One minute after the polls closed:

Another overwhelming victory for our campaign in Wisconsin!

114
Belafon  Apr 5, 2016 • 7:59:53pm

re: #109 b_sharp

I’m sorry, but how are you supposed to transport the captured bad guys if they can pop the trunk from inside?

I’m pretty sure you’re supposed to keep them in the back seat, with a gun pointed at them. As long as the gun doesn’t go off accidentally, you’re OK. Otherwise, the cleanup’s a mess.

115
Tigger2  Apr 5, 2016 • 8:00:32pm

re: #107 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

116
Stanley Sea  Apr 5, 2016 • 8:00:37pm
117
jaunte  Apr 5, 2016 • 8:00:57pm

re: #109 b_sharp

118
Charles Johnson  Apr 5, 2016 • 8:01:18pm
119
Belafon  Apr 5, 2016 • 8:02:57pm

re: #118 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

I’d love to know where her record shows she’s significantly less liberal than Sanders.

120
FormerDirtDart  Apr 5, 2016 • 8:03:27pm

re: #111 stpaulbear

Do you own furniture like dressers and sofas? How did you move alone??

I haven’t moved for 20 years, but I managed to fill up a 16’ truck with stuff from a 400 square foot apartment. I found out it was a lot easier to get friends to help me move when I could tell them that I’d hired three guys to move the heavy stuff. With the help, we were done with the move out and the move in within 3 hours. I only moved about 5 miles.

I have some quite large, and heavy bedroom furniture, and a surprisingly heavy solid Ash futon.
My savior was an appliance hand truck I found in a storage unit I rented ages ago.

121
Bill and Opus for 2016!  Apr 5, 2016 • 8:05:19pm

The Southern Poverty Law Center put together a report documenting how much Donald Trump has been influencing the recent resurgence of white nationalism in various forms of media, complete with some actual hard data.

By the Numbers: Donald Trump Continues to Mainstream White Nationalist Memes

Part of this report included the phony “USA Crime Statistics”, which the story credits LGF for finding out where the Trump campaign likely obtained it:

In November, Trump retweeted a picture of fake crime statistics claiming that 81 percent of white murders were committed by African-Americans in 2015. The idea that African-Americans are prone to statistically higher rates of violent crime, and that the victims of that criminality are more often white, is an idea that has increasingly found footing in racist circles. A racist Twitter account, @cheesedbrit, originally posted the racist graphic that Trump used, according to Little Green Footballs.

But following Trump’s tweet of the graphic, and the uproar that surrounded it, the average number of Google searches for the phrase “black on white crime” jumped from 2,900 searches in October to 8,100 in November.

122
ObserverArt  Apr 5, 2016 • 8:06:34pm

re: #103 Great White Snark

Would I want to try to justify a sad tragedy to a grieving family? On what planet is that a good idea? Why would I suddenly pretend that statistics for all their actual practical value have any meaning in a time like that? This makes no sense. No more sense than pretending the tragedy is the most common use of a gun. I have lost two colleagues to gun violence in robberies. I do not, did not blame the guns. There is only one kind of dead. I still have my gun in case they try it at my office. I will have more than strong language at hand should violence come to me and mine. may as well ask me to speak to those hypothetical but possible robbers families. Will a felons son forgive me for saving my own life? I doubt it.

The police went to better pistols when they faced better modern guns and rifles. They also got radios and helicopters.

Cars are used in crimes. Hence car jacking. Smash drive through the front and grab what they can. Or even worse kidnapping and rape then murders. “get in the trunk” is a death sentence.

Was there a gun used in the car jacking?

Was there a gun used to tell someone to get in the trunk?

You are right, strong words fail in the face of a gun. Why is that? Does it have anything to do with the common use of a gun?

123
Charles Johnson  Apr 5, 2016 • 8:17:20pm
124
bratwurst  Apr 5, 2016 • 8:20:58pm

Election nights have a way of bringing out the dumb in a lot of people…especially on MSNBC:

125
jaunte  Apr 5, 2016 • 8:21:26pm
126
jaunte  Apr 5, 2016 • 8:22:35pm
127
Tigger2  Apr 5, 2016 • 8:22:44pm
128
retired cynic  Apr 5, 2016 • 8:23:08pm

I keep talking about things I heard on NPR: hereandnow.wbur.org

Gen. Wesley Clark did about 10 minutes about Foreign Policy on Here and Now, and the sound and the transcript are on the above page. Some good stuff, starting with Trump and disbanding NATO.

I heard another talk of his yesterday that I can’t find right now, where he talked more about Syria, and why he thought Obama had been right. I’ll keep looking for that one.

129
SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN  Apr 5, 2016 • 8:23:11pm

re: #120 FormerDirtDart

I’m pretty sure my wife has in excess of 500 outfits in our closets and on our floor. She probably uses about the same 2 dozen of them.

130
SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN  Apr 5, 2016 • 8:24:55pm

re: #124 bratwurst

Election nights have a way of bringing out the dumb in a lot of people…especially on MSNBC:

[Embedded content]

Not as dumb as you think. We’ve had too many republican governors, senators, the legislature is majority Republican. Other than that, sure, it’s a blue state.

131
Charles Johnson  Apr 5, 2016 • 8:26:38pm

re: #103 Great White Snark

Cars are used in crimes.

Cars are manufactured as tools to transport people from place to place. Yes, they’re dangerous if used maliciously.

Guns are manufactured as tools to kill human beings. They’re dangerous on purpose - in fact, it’s their only purpose.

Please don’t tell me about target shooting or hunting or hobbyist collectors. The VAST majority of the guns sold in this country are not used for those purposes. They’re overwhelmingly sold to people who either want to kill someone, or think they might have to kill someone to protect themselves from other people with guns.

This is a seriously fucked up situation. And people will just keep dying until America finds a way to come to terms with the nightmare we’ve created by fetishizing deadly weapons.

132
Great White Snark  Apr 5, 2016 • 8:27:54pm

re: #122 ObserverArt

Was there a gun used in the car jacking?

Was there a gun used to tell someone to get in the trunk?

You are right, strong words fail in the face of a gun. Why is that? Does it have anything to do with the common use of a gun?

It has nothing to do with the common use of a gun. It has only to do with the criminal use. In the common use words work just fine. The words used in the sport and for safety. Clear to load or cease fire.

133
Stanley Sea  Apr 5, 2016 • 8:30:14pm

re: #129 SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN

I’m pretty sure my wife has in excess of 500 outfits in our closets and on our floor. She probably uses about the same 2 dozen of them.

I’ve read this, my friends have read it. We’ve totally demolished our closets. We are free.
Highly recommend.

amazon.com

134
BeachDem  Apr 5, 2016 • 8:33:07pm

re: #131 Charles Johnson

Cars are manufactured as tools to transport people from place to place. Yes, they’re dangerous if used maliciously.

Guns are manufactured as tools to kill human beings. They’re dangerous on purpose - in fact, it’s their only purpose.

Please don’t tell me about target shooting or hunting or hobbyist collectors. The VAST majority of the guns sold in this country are not used for those purposes. They’re overwhelmingly sold to people who either want to kill someone, or think they might have to kill someone to protect themselves from other people with guns.

This is a seriously fucked up situation. And people will just keep dying until America finds a way to come to terms with the nightmare we’ve created by fetishizing deadly weapons.

And at the very least can we stop calling negligent gun incidents “accidents.” When you leave a fucking loaded gun where a toddler can get hold of it, that’s not an accident.

135
Great White Snark  Apr 5, 2016 • 8:33:24pm

re: #131 Charles Johnson

Cars are manufactured as tools to transport people from place to place. Yes, they’re dangerous if used maliciously.

Guns are manufactured as tools to kill human beings. They’re dangerous on purpose - in fact, it’s their only purpose.

Please don’t tell me about target shooting or hunting or hobbyist collectors. The VAST majority of the guns sold in this country are not used for those purposes. They’re overwhelmingly sold to people who either want to kill someone, or think they might have to kill someone to protect themselves from other people with guns.

This is a seriously fucked up situation. And people will just keep dying until America finds a way to come to terms with the nightmare we’ve created by fetishizing deadly weapons.

Okay look I don’t think those numbers would actually hold up. Even among cops most of the guns never see use apart from practice. Not a numbers argument really anyway. I do understand how you feel about how much guns are misused in this country. We agree a lot there. BUT-The idea that most of us gun owners want to kill someone is an impossible debate. it’s reading minds. Charles, we are miles apart, this is your house. You are very good to us, I’ll not argue further. Plenty of past posts to be liked or disliked. I’ll respectfully withhold further comment, enjoy the evening.

136
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Apr 5, 2016 • 8:34:10pm

re: #133 Stanley Sea

I’ve read this, my friends have read it. We’ve totally demolished our closets. We are free.
Highly recommend.

amazon.com

I figured I was pretty sure what that was before I clicked, and I was right.

I am not a 100% convert, but I definitely got some useful things out of that book. Also now I can actually fold my shirts.

137
bratwurst  Apr 5, 2016 • 8:34:38pm

re: #135 Great White Snark

The idea that most of us gun owners want to kill someone is an impossible debate.

And one which nobody here has engaged in.

138
Stanley Sea  Apr 5, 2016 • 8:35:18pm

re: #136 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I figured I was pretty sure what that was before I clicked, and I was right.

I am not a 100% convert, but I definitely got some useful things out of that book. Also now I can actually fold my shirts.

Goodwill has benefited. Hopefully. They received PILES.

139
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Apr 5, 2016 • 8:36:57pm

re: #138 Stanley Sea

Goodwill has benefited. Hopefully. They received PILES.

I always have mixed feelings about donating to Goodwill but sometimes it is just about getting it out of my house and not sending it to a landfill and not making a political statement.

I have another bag to go tomorrow.

140
alansfmd  Apr 5, 2016 • 8:37:37pm

Courtesy of the NRA and our scaredy-cat Congress gun manufacturers have protection from lawsuits far beyond any other industry in this country. By supporting this immunity Sen. Sanders betrays progressive principles and demonstrates that he is another casualty of the NRA.

I believe in the 2nd amendment and the militia as written by the founders. You can have all the flintlock pistols and single shot muskets you want; the standard weaponry of the late 18th century. Semiautomatic assault weapons and 35 bullet magazines don’t make the grade. Belonging to the gun of the month club doesn’t make the grade. Buying a gun at the local flea market doesn’t make the grade. We register all our cars; we can register all our guns. If it takes a few days or a few weeks, so be it. If you lived elsewhere your weapon of choice might be a water pistol.

For those who want a detailed review of the exceptions to the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act (PLCAA) passed in 2005 use the link below.

Link

This statute provides broad immunity to gun manufacturers and dealers in federal and state court.

141
Stanley Sea  Apr 5, 2016 • 8:38:25pm

re: #139 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I always have mixed feelings about donating to Goodwill but sometimes it is just about getting it out of my house and not sending it to a landfill and not making a political statement.

I have another bag to go tomorrow.

I wish they will called from my house! I’d set them up for Tuesdays.

142
Belafon  Apr 5, 2016 • 8:38:47pm

re: #139 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I always have mixed feelings about donating to Goodwill but sometimes it is just about getting it out of my house and not sending it to a landfill and not making a political statement.

I have another bag to go tomorrow.

In my area we have a place called Helping Hands that we donate to. They use the money raised from donated items for a food pantry, and to run a health care clinic.

143
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Apr 5, 2016 • 8:40:16pm

re: #142 Belafon

In my area we have a place called Helping Hands that we donate to. They use the money raised from donated items for a food pantry, and to run a health care clinic.

I really need to do my research and find someplace else to donate clothes and household items to. There’s still more to go.

I donate styrofoam coolers (4 a month) to our local food bank. (The diet meals I have been doing since October come in those, and I am allergic to throwing these away.)

144
Jenner7  Apr 5, 2016 • 8:41:38pm

What the fuck??

145
Charles Johnson  Apr 5, 2016 • 8:41:50pm

re: #135 Great White Snark

The idea that most of us gun owners want to kill someone is an impossible debate.

That’s not what I said. I said guns are sold to people who either want to kill someone (obviously not you), or think they need to protect themselves from other people with guns.

These devices have no other purpose but killing and maiming, whether in self-defense or out of malice. I have no idea how we can solve this terrible state we’re in, but it would be nice if we could stop pretending there’s any other reason to own a gun than to harm another human being. That’s what they’re for. They have no other purpose.

I’m not trying to crack on you about this, I just get irritated at the universal refusal to face the reality of the gun situation.

146
Sophist, Premature Anti-Trumpist  Apr 5, 2016 • 8:44:17pm

re: #80 EPR-radar

Not me. No cell phone.

Either you’re really white, or you are very confident that no cop will ever see you holding anything in your hand that could conceivably be mistaken for one under certain hypothetical lighting conditions.

147
Belafon  Apr 5, 2016 • 8:44:18pm

re: #144 Jenner7

[Embedded content]

What the fuck??

This is coming from the supporter of the guy who just recently joined the Democratic party, and keeps talking about Revolution and not committed to supporting the Democratic candidate if it’s Clinton.

148
retired cynic  Apr 5, 2016 • 8:45:21pm

re: #145 Charles Johnson

I agree with you, in principle. But there are (fortunately, very rare) times when you need a gun on a farm, to put something out of its misery, when nothing else is available quickly. And some people around here to do hunt and fish, both for sport and to eat.

149
Belafon  Apr 5, 2016 • 8:46:49pm

re: #144 Jenner7

And I like comic book stores.

Edit: The same guy, but this one made me laugh:

150
teleskiguy  Apr 5, 2016 • 8:48:19pm

re: #108 FormerDirtDart

Ugh. Moving sucks. I know. I’m a ski bum. I’ve moved a dozen times in the last 15 years.

151
Charles Johnson  Apr 5, 2016 • 8:48:28pm

I used to own a shotgun, purchased when Robert Stacy McCain’s neo-Nazi friend Bill White was publicly threatening my life. I was never comfortable with owning it, and went through a lot of soul-searching about it. When I realized I just couldn’t feel good about owning a tool intended to blow huge holes in human beings and sold it, I felt like a weight had been lifted off my shoulders. I’ll never go back to that fear-driven place again.

More than anything else, it makes me incredibly sad that with everything America has going for it — and that’s a lot — we’re saddled with this insane attraction to deadly weapons that almost everyone has no business owning.

152
Great White Snark  Apr 5, 2016 • 8:50:46pm

re: #145 Charles Johnson

Sorry for the misread. And I never blame my friends for a passionate honest opinion or conclusion.

153
Charles Johnson  Apr 5, 2016 • 8:51:01pm

re: #148 retired cynic

I agree with you, in principle. But there are (fortunately, very rare) times when you need a gun on a farm, to put something out of its misery, when nothing else is available quickly. And some people around here to do hunt and fish, both for sport and to eat.

Not an absolutist - there are definitely cases where a gun may be necessary. But these cases are very very rare, when you consider the millions of guns in private hands in the US.

154
Sherlock Hound  Apr 5, 2016 • 8:51:12pm

re: #148 retired cynic

I’m not concerned with guns in rural areas, used for hunting and the other uses described. That’s between you and the local fish and game (DEP, in Massachusetts).

But I’ve come to DESPISE the talking points and JAQ’ing off that NRA fans do when they hide behind legitimate, responsible use of long guns, to excuse illegitimate, irresponsible, and dangerous use of handguns.

155
retired cynic  Apr 5, 2016 • 8:51:42pm

re: #153 Charles Johnson

Abso-****ing-lutely.

156
teleskiguy  Apr 5, 2016 • 8:53:48pm

re: #131 Charles Johnson

Cars are manufactured as tools to transport people from place to place. Yes, they’re dangerous if used maliciously.

Guns are manufactured as tools to kill human beings. They’re dangerous on purpose - in fact, it’s their only purpose.

Please don’t tell me about target shooting or hunting or hobbyist collectors. The VAST majority of the guns sold in this country are not used for those purposes. They’re overwhelmingly sold to people who either want to kill someone, or think they might have to kill someone to protect themselves from other people with guns.

This is a seriously fucked up situation. And people will just keep dying until America finds a way to come to terms with the nightmare we’ve created by fetishizing deadly weapons.

QFT

157
Great White Snark  Apr 5, 2016 • 8:54:30pm

So gonna pimp a slightly related Page as in increased violence and threats of violence.

littlegreenfootballs.com

Since the deceptive videos threats against PP have escalated literally beyond measure.

158
teleskiguy  Apr 5, 2016 • 8:55:07pm

re: #151 Charles Johnson

I used to own a shotgun, purchased when Robert Stacy McCain’s neo-Nazi friend Bill White was publicly threatening my life. I was never comfortable with owning it, and went through a lot of soul-searching about it. When I realized I just couldn’t feel good about owning a tool intended to blow huge holes in human beings and sold it, I felt like a weight had been lifted off my shoulders. I’ll never go back to that fear-driven place again.

More than anything else, it makes me incredibly sad that with everything America has going for it — and that’s a lot — we’re saddled with this insane attraction to deadly weapons that almost everyone has no business owning.

Again! QFT

159
Amory Blaine  Apr 5, 2016 • 8:55:25pm

re: #157 Great White Snark

Pepper makes a great wallpaper.

160
mr.fusion  Apr 5, 2016 • 8:58:31pm
161
teleskiguy  Apr 5, 2016 • 8:59:20pm

I own three firearms. Two rifles and a shotgun. I bought two of them and one of them was given to me. I fired the shotgun two summers ago, the others I haven’t fired since I lived in Steamboat.

I own no pistols. I refuse to own pistols. Too much deadly force in the palm of your hand, IMHO.

162
Great White Snark  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:00:21pm

re: #159 Amory Blaine

Thanks. I put the same one up on my main workstation at the office. It’s the one wallpaper that gets some customer reaction.

163
Stanley Sea  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:01:37pm

re: #160 mr.fusion

[Embedded content]

YAA

164
jaunte  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:06:27pm
165
retired cynic  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:07:34pm

re: #164 jaunte

LOL!

166
freetoken  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:07:53pm

re: #131 Charles Johnson

… The VAST majority of the guns sold in this country are not used for those purposes. They’re overwhelmingly sold to people who either want to kill someone, or think they might have to kill someone to protect themselves from other people with guns.

One of the most striking things from my time living in Japan was the experience of living in a culture where the people around me were not expecting to be shot by either a stranger or someone they know.

And no one there is expected to own a gun (though there are plenty of gun-owners in Japan for various reasons, mostly collectors.) There is the rare violent act that includes a gun, but those occurrences are very rare compared to the US.

As I grow older I feel more and more that our society is very violent and while that may be a very human thing I keep asking myself why we continue to pretend we are not the abnormal society compared to other’s in the world.

The wingnut gun-lovers are fixated on the word “exceptional” in regards to the US but that is just a false bravado to cover up their own feelings of inadequacy. Every nation-state today has its own unique history and strengths and weaknesses.

I’ve been spending a lot of time working on researching some of my ancestors and it really is quite striking to see how violent our past was. Part of the attachment so many Americans have to guns is, I think, inherited with some sort of cultural memory of our very conflict-riddled past.

Yet hand-guns in particular have almost no selling point other than killing people. If someone can’t acknowledge that I think they are just not willing to accept the truth.

So if you want a handgun, you evidently feel you want/need to kill someone else. Certainly I expect everyone to say they would only do so in self-defense, against someone who will want to kill them.

But that begs the question - why then are there so many people out to kill you?

167
Charles Johnson  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:08:12pm
168
Testy Toad T  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:09:05pm

Guns are pretty fun (and thoroughly dangerous) tools to generate seemingly magical effect at a distance. They appeal to a base part of my lizardbrain psyche, and I don’t feel like I’m a stain on liberalism to admit that, or to say that I am okay with people being able to toy around with such tools in a sensible and controlled environment.

But sure as shit my personal identity as an American is not tied to being able to own one or many of nearly arbitrary configuration and then being able to carry them on my person wherever at any time for no particular reason at all.

169
jaunte  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:09:35pm

re: #167 Charles Johnson

embarrassingly inept

In a teetering-past-the-abyss kind of way.

170
jaunte  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:10:12pm
171
jaunte  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:11:26pm
172
[deleted]  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:14:18pm
173
Testy Toad T  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:15:05pm

re: #171 jaunte

You also wonder if Berniebros* get that Clinton’s job, as SecState, was to enforce/enact/enable the policy positions of the President at whose pleasure she served, not to go off on some damn fool idealistic crusade to save dead-on-the-vine American manufacturing jobs, or whatever.
.
.
.
* standard disclaimer about rational supporters

174
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:18:00pm

re: #172 Tea Party Pooper

With an opening paragraph like that, I couldn’t help but be riveted by such amazing analysis and insight.

///

175
jaunte  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:18:04pm
176
Amory Blaine  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:19:12pm

Fuck, bad news.

Rebecca Bradley beats JoAnne Kloppenburg in high court race

State Supreme Court Justice Rebecca Bradley was elected to a 10-year term Tuesday, overcoming a challenge from Appeals Judge JoAnne Kloppenburg and keeping the job Gov. Scott Walker appointed her to in the fall.

Her win preserves conservatives’ 5-2 control of the court.

The Associated Press called the race for Bradley just before 11 p.m.

177
Testy Toad T  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:19:35pm

re: #175 jaunte

That’s gonna leave a mark.

178
[deleted]  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:19:35pm
179
retired cynic  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:19:48pm

re: #176 Amory Blaine

Fuck, bad news.

Rebecca Bradley beats JoAnne Kloppenburg in high court race

RATS!

180
freetoken  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:20:28pm

re: #176 Amory Blaine

So, why do such important elections happen on a Primary election day instead of a general election day?

181
jaunte  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:20:46pm

re: #177 Testy Toad T

“Just look at this! You’re going to want to send money.”

182
Testy Toad T  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:20:47pm

re: #174 klys (maker of Silmarils)

With an opening paragraph like that, I couldn’t help but be riveted by such amazing analysis and insight.

///

I’m trying to figure out what “absolute centrist” could even mean, in a philosophical sense.

183
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:21:42pm

re: #182 Testy Toad T

I’m trying to figure out what “absolute centrist” could even mean, in a philosophical sense.

Not left enough for the person in question, but probably can’t be described as a Republican to anyone not-on-the-far-left?

184
[deleted]  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:22:20pm
185
freetoken  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:22:23pm

re: #172 Tea Party Pooper

Shorter you: I deny handguns’ primary purpose is to shoot and kill people.

186
Stanley Sea  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:22:41pm

re: #168 Testy Toad T

Guns are pretty fun (and thoroughly dangerous) tools to generate seemingly magical effect at a distance. They appeal to a base part of my lizardbrain psyche, and I don’t feel like I’m a stain on liberalism to admit that, or to say that I am okay with people being able to toy around with such tools in a sensible and controlled environment.

But sure as shit my personal identity as an American is not tied to being able to own one or many of nearly arbitrary configuration and then being able to carry them on my person wherever at any time for no particular reason at all.

This.

187
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:23:08pm

Apparently someone felt we were too bored tonight?

188
Charles Johnson  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:23:16pm

re: #172 Tea Party Pooper

Look, you asshole. I’m not on any Hillary “mailing lists” and I’m not doing anyone’s bidding. Fuck you.

189
teleskiguy  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:23:36pm

re: #175 jaunte

190
Kragar  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:24:30pm

re: #172 Tea Party Pooper

Where exactly is the logic in allowing manufacturers of a legally available product to be taken to court because someone uses that product in an illegal way?

I’m guessing you sided with the Tobacco industry when they got sued as well.

191
Testy Toad T  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:24:43pm

re: #188 Charles Johnson

Look, you asshole. I’m not on any Hillary “mailing lists” and I’m not doing anyone’s bidding. Fuck you.

You’re not?! Dude, the Bed Bath and Beyond coupon attachment is off the hook.

192
Charles Johnson  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:24:54pm

Nope. Not gonna play this.

193
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:25:22pm

re: #191 Testy Toad T

You’re not?! Dude, the Bed Bath and Beyond coupon attachment is off the hook.

I love those coupons. The expiration date never applies. They’ll just take them every time!

I keep a stack in my car, since I go in maybe once a year.

194
jaunte  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:26:12pm

It’s getting hard to tell the conservative trolls from the True Berners.

195
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:26:14pm

re: #192 Charles Johnson

Nope. Not gonna play this.

Well that was short.

Not that I blame you.

196
jaunte  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:27:09pm

re: #193 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I’m so out of it I bought an iron there last week without a coupon.

197
Testy Toad T  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:28:54pm

Over yonder in SW Minnesota, you can go to a range and COMMAND A GODDAMNED TANK. You can, for suitable sums of money, shoot big machine guns and drive over cars and shit.

How cool is that??!!?

And yet somehow I do not feel like I need to personally own a tank.

198
TedStriker  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:29:06pm

re: #172 Tea Party Pooper

re: #184 Tea Party Pooper

Hmmm, someone who registered 3.5 years ago, but could only be bothered to comment ten times in that period…and three of those comments have been in this thread, basically calling Charles a Hillary shill and trotting out some old-ass, hoary gunfucker chestnuts.

I’m smelling the distinct odor of rancid bullshit.

EDIT: And, as I was posting this, Stinky has done shown the asshole the door…buh-bye now!

199
jaunte  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:29:35pm

re: #198 TedStriker

Socky McSockpoop.

200
Charles Johnson  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:30:01pm

re: #195 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Well that was short.

Not that I blame you.

I have no problem discussing things with people who disagree with me. But if people start off being nasty and insulting — buh bye.

201
William Lewis  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:30:33pm

re: #180 freetoken

So, why do such important elections happen on a Primary election day instead of a general election day?

Because of the pretense that judges are nonpartisan.

202
MsJ  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:31:20pm

re: #174 klys (maker of Silmarils)

With an opening paragraph like that, I couldn’t help but be riveted by such amazing analysis and insight.

///

Damn. Missed it.

203
TedStriker  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:31:54pm

re: #202 MsJ

Damn. Missed it.

You didn’t miss anything of consequence.

204
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:31:57pm

re: #200 Charles Johnson

I have no problem discussing things with people who disagree with me. But if people start off being nasty and insulting — buh bye.

I mean, it’s not like there wasn’t an example of a disagreement on this issue just upthread. Nope.

205
Great White Snark  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:32:34pm

re: #200 Charles Johnson

The guy just felt the need to be a dick about it. Nobody needs that. Not sorry thats gone

206
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:32:35pm

re: #176 Amory Blaine

Very effective revolution Bernie appears to be running, here.

/

207
Charles Johnson  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:32:38pm

re: #198 TedStriker

Yep. Last comment was almost 4 years ago. The smell of socks is in the air.

208
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:33:17pm

re: #207 Charles Johnson

Yep. Last comment was almost 4 years ago. The smell of socks is in the air.

Don’t look at me, my laundry is all clean!

209
teleskiguy  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:33:39pm

re: #202 MsJ

Damn. Missed it.

Troll-y McTroll Troll

210
TedStriker  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:34:14pm

re: #209 teleskiguy

Troll-y McTroll Troll

Embedded Image

Well, Stinky’s already killed it with fire, so there’s that.

211
MsJ  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:34:31pm

re: #194 jaunte

It’s getting hard to tell the conservative trolls from the True Berners.

And harder to tell the diff between Bernie & trump. Both talk n tropes, have their own “scapegoats” and are pretty clueless. That Bernie is this stupid and clueless is a complete shocker for as long as he’s been in DC.

212
teleskiguy  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:35:27pm

re: #210 TedStriker

Well, Stinky’s already killed it with fire, so there’s that.

213
jaunte  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:35:59pm

re: #211 MsJ

And this is a comic book conception of the world:

214
ObserverArt  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:36:19pm

re: #132 Great White Snark

It has nothing to do with the common use of a gun. It has only to do with the criminal use. In the common use words work just fine. The words used in the sport and for safety. Clear to load or cease fire.

You are defensively splitting hairs.

com*mon*ly
ˈkämənlē/
adverb
adverb: commonly

very often; frequently.

Guns are commonly used in car jackings.

Guns are commonly used in kidnappings.

I think you are looking to make the word commonly mean an almost majority of time.

Do I have statistics to back that up? I don’t know if they are allowed to be kept. I sure would like to see real complete statistics.

This is why guns can never be discussed. People want to defend them in ways they would not defend almost any other thing.

That was the point I was making about explaining your position to a family that has suffered a gun tragedy as compared to car tragedy. I think the average American accepts the danger of a car completely different than the tragedy brought on by guns.

If the little kids killed at Sandy Hook all died in a bad school bus crash it would certainly be seen and understood differently. Do you not agree?

I understand that this can all be a circular argument and sometime border on being pointless to the point of banging your head against the wall. But again, that always seem to be the case with guns and I just do not understand why other than guns have some kind of a special power in many people’s thinking.

Guns actually enjoy extra-special protection. In a way they are even protected for the use by the criminal due to their easy availability. And as I’ve said before…they most certainly affect the life, liberty and pursuit of happiness of a lot of people with those extraordinary protections.

215
mmmirele  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:36:54pm

David Daleiden’s apartment was raided and computers/hard drives were taken.

Investigators with the California Department of Justice on Tuesday raided the home of David Daleiden, the anti-abortion activist behind a series of undercover videos targeting Planned Parenthood, the activist said.

Authorities seized a laptop and multiple hard drives from his Orange County apartment, Daleiden said in an email. The equipment contained all of the video Daleiden had filmed as part of his 30-month project, “including some very damning footage that has yet to be released to the public,” he said.

Yeah, right, David. Lies like the last videos, right?

washingtonpost.com

216
Sherlock Hound  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:37:02pm

re: #211 MsJ

To me, Bernie’s even worse than Trump because he could know better. But he doesn’t. 30 years of public life, recycled 1 year at a time.

217
MsJ  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:38:47pm

Grrrr. Bernie supporters! One just told me I’m a conservative republican. @MsJoanne

I. Am. Seething.

218
teleskiguy  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:39:02pm

re: #215 mmmirele

Page-able stuff.

219
Great White Snark  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:41:38pm

re: #214 ObserverArt

Well as I mentioned I’m resting my case for now. Next time perhaps.

220
jaunte  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:43:50pm

re: #217 MsJ

Send him to Jonathan Capehart’s timeline.

221
ObserverArt  Apr 5, 2016 • 9:44:14pm

re: #148 retired cynic

I agree with you, in principle. But there are (fortunately, very rare) times when you need a gun on a farm, to put something out of its misery, when nothing else is available quickly. And some people around here to do hunt and fish, both for sport and to eat.

And that is the basic difference between sporting shotguns and rifles and pistols/handguns/revolvers.

No one is saying to eliminate all guns. I certainly would love to look at controlling and looking at why there is allowing mass consumption of pistols.

222
Chez Ko Pe  Apr 5, 2016 • 10:05:40pm

re: #107 Charles Johnson

Salon? Does he mean the site that published an article suggesting that a disastrous Trump Presidency would be preferable to a purity-of-conscience-sullying Hillary one?

223
Viscous Obama  Apr 5, 2016 • 10:06:24pm

re: #176 Amory Blaine

Fuck, bad news.

Rebecca Bradley beats JoAnne Kloppenburg in high court race

Revolution!

224
Chez Ko Pe  Apr 5, 2016 • 10:13:19pm

re: #119 Belafon

Look, the bird made its choice. It’s your duty to follow.

225
Sophist, Premature Anti-Trumpist  Apr 5, 2016 • 10:14:26pm

re: #182 Testy Toad T

I’m trying to figure out what “absolute centrist” could even mean, in a philosophical sense.

Extreme moderate.

226
Ming5000  Apr 6, 2016 • 2:29:25am

re: #61 EPR-radar

There is no gun analogy for the self-braking car, and there won’t be. Even when used correctly, a gun is essentially a lethal weapon in a way that a car simply isn’t.

If you can conceive of it they can do it. Assuming you do not intend to use a weapon as a lethal weapon there can be tools to help prevent an accident. Self braking gun?
User fingerprint sensing
Thermal detection
Others?? Why not?

227
GlutenFreeJesus  Apr 6, 2016 • 5:25:23am

Imagine how tall that Trump wall would have to be to stop Chinese and Indian immigrants from committing fraud through a fake university to obtain counterfeit student visas!

money.cnn.com

228
Agnostick  Apr 6, 2016 • 8:21:56am

Sorry, but I agree with Bernie on this one. If the gun was sold in a fair transaction… to someone who passed the background check… and the firearm was in perfect working order… then there’s no reason for either the manufacturer or retailer to be sued.

I inherited a 12-gauge shotgun from my dad. He used it two or three times for hunting trips, dove and quail hunting. If someone breaks into the house, steals it, uses it in a holdup, shoots and kills someone… who is responsible? Should the manufacturer be liable for that?

Who manufactured the box cutters that were used on September 11, 2001?

230
Agnostick  Apr 6, 2016 • 8:24:15am

Video

231
cat-tikvah  Apr 6, 2016 • 9:32:54am

As to how semi-automatic weapons arer advertised and marketed: buzzfeed.com
Apparently a real man needs a Bushmaster, the weapon of choice for murdering elementary school children, or he is a wuss.


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