Of course, they would have to suspend their fascist no-smoking policies.

Heck, they would have been appointed joint-chairs of the Middle East Studies department.

Columbia University, poster child for the absurd.

Any why not?

They are just out for a laugh and a smoke with their buddies.

You see, this only shows the humanity of the SS, and therefore they are welcome at the table of dialogue.

/do I really have to?

On behalf of my uncle Jim, who died in a B-17, and is no longer with us to say it, I invite Mr.John Coatsworth of Columbia University to go to hell and stay there.

Seem like a swell group of guys. Ivy League types.

Aw, man, did we have to see this? We already know the sick humor of the Nazis. Anyone ever seen "Conspiracy" from HBO was taken from the original Wannsee transcripts. Those guys were more than morbid. Joking about the Final Solution the way they did? Make you kind of wish we had just given them their "fair" trial, then taken them out behind the courthouse and crushed their skulls against the wall.

I see some dead eyes in this photo.

Anyone else?

Today, Kucinich would be having lunch with them, Sean Penn would make a documentary about them and then they'd all come to D.C. to tour the Holocaust museum.

I'm not certain I can even comment on this. My family, on my father's side, is Prussian, although they settled in Minnesota long before WW II.

RE: #8 Astronmr20

Yeah, too many to count in the whole bloody regime.

re: #9 hbwriter

Ron Paul!

Look closely at those faces. Note how easily they laugh, how they are so certain they are doing the right and perfect thing.

Notice how easily evil can be made to look good.

Columbia would invite Osama bin Laden if he were available.

Second from the left in this photo: Josef Mengele.

I'd be willing to bet that if you asked 100 Columbia University students who Josef Mengele was, not a one would have a clue.

re: #15 EC Marm

Yet they could name all the fascists in the Bush regime.

Re: #14 ibrodsky

Gee, isn't it a shame we cancelled that invite before it happened? I'm sure that the Columbi9a moonbats are crying that Osama be pushin' up poppies right now. ;)

Here's the whole collection of 160+ images at the Holocasut Museum in Washington.

re: #14 ibrodsky

He's dead.

re: #14 ibrodsky

Columbia would invite Osama bin Laden if he were available alive.

I guess killing millions was hard work.

What I have a hard time understanding is how those bastards looked at what they did as if there was nothing wrong with it.

Looks like a group of congenial socialist who fit in at any Democrat fund raiser.

re: #5 Ojoe

And I don't want an apology. I want him to go.

Well, Hitler was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize.

So wait for Nobel 08, starring Mahmoud.

re: #15 EC Marm

Second from the left in this photo: Josef Mengele.

I'd be willing to bet that if you asked 100 Columbia University students who Josef Mengele was, not a one would have a clue.

Oh I don't think that is true at all!
I am sure most of them would be able to tell you he was a great medical researcher from the30's and 40's.
What? He was ans evil monster? Oh all of you Conservatives lie about all of the great men of history.

/

re: #26 MICHAEL in MI

What you mention certainly saps our will and ability to effictively fight the evil that we are confronting from Mecca.

Re: #21 MandyManners

It takes someone seriously twisted to believe that the murder of millions is good for humanity. I'm no fan of any despotic regime around the globe, but I wouldn't punish the innocents in that regime for the actions of a few. At the same time, I wouldn't excuse their so-called ignorance, either.

Thank God the troops liberating Germany from the Nazis in World War II didn't let that one slide. At least, for the most part, the world remembers the promise of "never again." Granted, a few have decided the ostrich approach is best for Iran (read: Demonrats in Congress), but the majority haven't decided that's smart, and are making their voices heard that a Holocaust NEVER happens again.

...and if Jew-hating, America-hating, Western civ-hating Muslim students wanted to attend American universities and set up shop there, we would let them.

The horrible thing? Many of those terrible men, committing terrible acts, thought of themselves as cultured men.

How this happened, exactly...it frightens me, how people lead themselves astray, step by step.

OT
But laughing my ass off at the camouflage on this armored vehicle in Archduke Ahmadinejads' parade the other day. Lucky Charms?

Irony becomes such an effort when reality is this twisted ...

"Veer chust dooink hour jobs. Perzonelly, I haff harmt no von."

re: #28 savage_nation

re: #26 MICHAEL in MI

You know, as sad as it is to say this, I just cannot feel any outrage anymore for Nazi Germany. Considering our culture now has the same ho-hum attitude about eliminating unborn babies for convenience.

The general attitude of not believing in the sanctity of life exists now in America as it did in Nazi Germany.

Considering I have talked with numerous women who told me they consider a developing unborn baby to be the equivalent of a disease... I just don't know how to be outraged anymore.

People say "never again", yet we have been living through this ideology still for the past 30+ years.

This is probably why the Left in this country sees no problem inviting these people to speak and respecting them. Because they share in their ideology.

When one does not respect the sanctity of life, all life loses value.

Great post! Spot on.

I don't always agree with you, but you hit this nail on the head.

Re: #33 Dianna

Kind of reminds us of the Left in America, minus the gas chambers, of course. They all think they're more intellectually superior to the rest of us. And they call us "Nazis." Pity, really, that they're that obtuse.

re: #29 Ojoe
While reserving comment on the lead post, I certainly agree that democracies not having kids has led to millions of illegals, caliphate dreams, Putin's new found courage, baby drives in Oz and Japan...

re: #26 MICHAEL in MI

You know, as sad as it is to say this, I just cannot feel any outrage anymore for Nazi Germany. Considering our culture now has the same ho-hum attitude about eliminating unborn babies for convenience.

I grew up being told about the horrors of Nazi Germany and being assured that people had learned their lesson and would never permit it to happen again.

Here we are, watching Nazism rise again--in the guise of a "religion."

re: #18 Maine's Michael

Fascinating pictures. I didn't see one picture of a prisoner.

Invited? Heck, they'd get honorary doctorates.

re: #30 MrAndMrsSmith

While ShortShit has not written a book about what he plans to do, he has told the world several times.

re: #31 MICHAEL in MI

I won't rise to the bait about abortion.

re: #31 MICHAEL in MI

The USSR killed many millions more than the Nazis in 5m waves, but it's hardly ever mentioned.

Their creepy smiles make me ill.

re: #34 EC Marm

They kinda look like swastikas.

What's with all the negative ratings? Sockpuppet voting?

I read this story this morning and posted it on one of the threads. It gave me a chill down my spine when I saw it. It's incredible that there was evil like that in the world and more chilling that it still exists today.

Why are we letting that Iranian monster into the US?

re: #26 MICHAEL in MI

You know, as sad as it is to say this, I just cannot feel any outrage anymore for Nazi Germany. Considering our culture now has the same ho-hum attitude about eliminating unborn babies for convenience.

The general attitude of not believing in the sanctity of life exists now in America as it did in Nazi Germany.

Considering I have talked with numerous women who told me they consider a developing unborn baby to be the equivalent of a disease... I just don't know how to be outraged anymore.

People say "never again", yet we have been living through this ideology still for the past 30+ years.

This is probably why the Left in this country sees no problem inviting these people to speak and respecting them. Because they share in their ideology.

When one does not respect the sanctity of life, all life loses value.

I think you are very wrong and I find your post insulting. All of my grandparents who would have been murdered in Germany found a home here in the US. America is not Nazi Germany- and if you can not feel outrage for Nazi Germany- you are the one at fault.

re: #48 Killgore Trout

Turned it off days ago. Added benefit: my PC's can run LGF again.

re: #47 yah

They kinda look like swastikas.

That's what caught my eye at first. The whole event smacks of Nazi Germany in 1939, doesn't it? All on the eve of his visit to this country. *spit*

re: #50 madisonsfriend

I think you are very wrong and I find your post insulting. All of my grandparents who would have been murdered in Germany found a home here in the US. America is not Nazi Germany- and if you can not feel outrage for Nazi Germany- you are the one at fault.

I agree.

Medical Experiments of the Holocaust and Nazi Medicine

/and they bitch about Guantanamo

And I really do not appreciate the effort to divert this important topic into another argument about abortion.

re: #52 cbinflux

I just turned it on a few days ago. Might turn it off again. Looks like we're headed for an abortion fight on a friday night. This could get ugly.

re: #51 MICHAEL in MI

Your comparisons are miles apart. Eugenics, for instance.

Settle down, and think.

re: #57 Killgore Trout

re: #52 cbinflux

I just turned it on a few days ago. Might turn it off again. Looks like we're headed for an abortion fight on a friday night. This could get ugly.

There isn't going to be an abortion fight, because I'm not going to allow it.

Department of Redundancy Department.

Kos Kid asks: Are we "whiney liberals"?

Um, yes. And you're whiny too.

re: #40 ibrodsky

Actually, Nazism was backed up by a fake religion based on Paganism and the like. Google Vril Society. Interesting stuff.

The humanization of evil.

re: #57 Killgore Trout

It was a hoot for a time, but the voting blocs can't be a good thing. LGF Island...

And it was a PITA in that it bogged down my PC's.

re: #56 Charles

And I really do not appreciate the effort to divert this important topic into another argument about abortion.

Amen

re: #59 Charles

Thank you!

re: #59 Charles

I think he is reaching for the Lizard condom.

:o

re: #48 Killgore Trout

What's with all the negative ratings? Sockpuppet voting?

No, I found it sad and insulting that an LGFer claims America is like Nazi Germany in its disrespect for life and that he can't be outraged by what happened there. I am outraged by Nazi Germany, I am outraged by Darfur, I am outraged by the "honor" killings of women in the Arab world- actually by Muslims anywhere- it happens in Europe and here in the US- but here at least it is treated as a real crime.

re: #57 Killgore Trout

re: #52 cbinflux

I just turned it on a few days ago. Might turn it off again. Looks like we're headed for an abortion fight on a friday night. This could get ugly.

Psssssssssst...it's Saturday night.

re: #62 Jimmy The Clam

Evil is never human.

But I get what you mean

I believe there is a Hell, and as a Catholic, I believe that repenting one's sins and begging Jesus for forgiveness earns redemption. But one can't repent without making amends for one's sins. So if Mengele ever regretted the evil he did, he would have turned himself in to face trial for war crimes and genocide. And Mengele did not.

Therefore, I believe he is where the fire never goes out, and the worms never die.

Michael in MI: if you continue to pursue this, your account will be blocked.

RE: #43 MandyManners

Touche. He has indeed, and just like Hitler in 1925/1926, the ideas were widely sought and accepted, as per Wiki's entry regarding the popularity of Mein Kampf:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Mahmoud "I wanna Jihad" Ahmadinejad is the modern day Hitler, only this time around in history, the nut wants weapons of mass destruction; showing the ultimate Nazi ideal of efficiency-to-dollars ratio.

Why waste time on gas chambers and mobile gassing trucks when a couple well-placed nukes can do the job cheaper and more efficiently?

Smoke this guy already, and let's prevent a repeat of the past.

"Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it." -- George Santayana

"The same day I saw my first horror camp, I visited every nook and cranny. I felt it my duty to be in a position from then on to testify about these things in case there ever grew up at home the belief or assumption that the stories of Nazi brutality were just propaganda."

- General Dwight D. Eisenhower

I spoke at length with my grandmother about WWII and the treatment of the Jews. She said that they had no idea what was going on in Germany during the war. I realize she didn't have the option of reading other venues like the Internet, so she was dependent on the media of the time.

She didn't even seem to stop and realize that Hitler clearly explained what he was going to do beforehand. As many have said here, we see this same ignorance about the agenda of those who stand against us.

This ignorance is deadly.

This is such a slap in the face to me, personally!
Both my grandfathers died in WWII
My grandmother and mother survived BABA YAR
My parents came HERE with me because they wanted me to have a life.
I am Jewish
The Jews here betray me by being so liberal that they are OK with this.
I served 4 years in our AMERICAN army, because I felt I owed this country something
NOW the DEMS want SOCIALISM?
I narrowly escaped that and my parents paid with their lives. They had good jobs in the Ukraine and could have survived, but they wanted a LIFE for me.
NOW the country is turning in to Russia? I feel betrayed.
I have a child.
Where can I escape?
These people want to create a Russia here.
I'm crying in my soul.
How can they betray ME this way? And all the other people that have gone through the history that is mine?
This history that is mine? Do you want it to be your children's? I ask. No reply
No one answers, because history is non existent and I believe it is deliberately removed from our kids.
I'm very distressed at the state of our affairs.
This is simply, UNREAL
/tear

re: #69 Crimsonfisted

re: #62 Jimmy The Clam

Evil is never human.

But I get what you mean

I beg to differ. Evil is quite human. It's about choice: the choice to do evil or the choice to not do evil.

re: #41 Killgore Trout

re: #18 Maine's Michael

Fascinating pictures. I didn't see one picture of a prisoner.

Pic number 7 - Singing to release the tension: An accordianist leads a sing-along for SS officers. Suspect he was not one of them.

re: #60 JammieWearingFool

Funny! And good news a lot of them are not going to donate to the Dems because Polisy and Reid aren't doing enough damage to our country. ha ha!
Maybe should send all their money to dinnerjehadaamad.

These relativist Lefties are all going to get tattoos on backs of their necks just so when its their turn to be beheaded in the name of Allah their killers will know where they should strike all the while telling the Islamonazis how much they respect their culture.

re: #75 txlady

I have no words.

You are a remarkable woman. thank you for your story.

re: #68 MandyManners

re: #57 Killgore Trout

re: #52 cbinflux

I just turned it on a few days ago. Might turn it off again. Looks like we're headed for an abortion fight on a friday night. This could get ugly.

Psssssssssst...it's Saturday night.

how weird... i was just looking at that website like 2 days ago. the pictures are absolutely horrifying. the ones of the emaciated and dismembered children have made me lose sleep.

and columbia doesn't think that dinnerjacket (ptui) would do the very same to jews again.

When I was a kid...around 5 or 6...I met a woman who was in one of the Nazi camps. She didn't talk about her experience there but she showed me her tattoo. That memory has stayed with me for about 40 years.

Ever felt all alone, somehow different, unique even?

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

MICHAEL in MI

This user is blocked.

Registered lizardoid since: Jun 26, 2005 at 12:25 pm

/ Guy couldn't take a freakin' hint, could he?

I like when Charles is in the house.

re: #72 MrAndMrsSmith

Don't know if you've seen this yet. It's a hoot.

I wish it could be played everywhere he goes in NYC.

re: #75 txlady

Very powerful. Thank you for posting that.

re: #74 vxbush

I spoke at length with my grandmother about WWII and the treatment of the Jews. She said that they had no idea what was going on in Germany during the war. I realize she didn't have the option of reading other venues like the Internet, so she was dependent on the media of the time.

She didn't even seem to stop and realize that Hitler clearly explained what he was going to do beforehand. As many have said here, we see this same ignorance about the agenda of those who stand against us.

This ignorance is deadly.

I am sorry but I do not listen to those who say they did not know what went on in Germany. I realize this was your grandmother whom you love and may have great respect for but I have heard this too often. I think that the shame and guilt is very great and saying " i didn't know" was a defense but just too many people say they didn't know. The people here in the US are not ignorant of the agenda- of our enemies they support it or they choose to let it happen.

re: #86 serpentine fire

Ever felt all alone, somehow different, unique even?

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

Columbia will extend an invitation, surely?

Reported.

re: #44 MandyManners

re: #31 MICHAEL in MI

I won't rise to the bait about abortion.

Ah hell's belles.. I saw the line regarding the sanctity of life and bit... I really need to pay attention to who the one note trumpets are here.

I've always been socially inept and don't pay attention to things like that, it's the nerd in me.

Wow ec marm 87, gloat much!

re: #87 EC Marm

Timeouts are sometimes necessary.

Going ... going ... gone.

Can't say he wasn't warned.

re: #68 MandyManners

re: #57 Killgore Trout

re: #52 cbinflux

I just turned it on a few days ago. Might turn it off again. Looks like we're headed for an abortion fight on a friday night. This could get ugly.

Psssssssssst...it's Saturday night.

See! It's already got people confused! Fortunately the digression into taboo subjects got cut off at the pass. ;-)>

FYI...If you get Rusty Humphries on the radio or XM (channel 166), Brigitte Gabriel is on right now.

re: #75 txlady

((((((txlady))))))

re: #68 MandyManners

Really? That's funny. I had a nightmare a few months ago that I had to go get a "job" again. heh.

re: #91 madisonsfriend

No, I know what you mean. I did love her (do love her) tremendously, but I find it hard to believe that stories never made it over here regarding what was happening leading up to the killings.

She said that nobody knew that FDR was in a wheelchair during his presidency, that the press hid that from everyone.

I would have to research this more to really see how likely it is that she would not have known. But right now, I need to get ready for bed.

I wish everyone a good night. Do not let this evil enter your dreams; let it enter your resolve and help you to stand firm when others would have you "dialog" with evil.

re: #50 madisonsfriend

A friendly reminder:
Don't quote posts which are likely to come down. Stinky is really PO'ed.

re: #76 MandyManners

I beg to differ. Evil is quite human. It's about choice: the choice to do evil or the choice to not do evil.

Since I have started going to Catholic class with my adult daughter, I am thinking in terms that evil is not of God, nor the intention He has for man. The evil displayed in that picture for me is something so much deeper than what is, or should be, in mankind. The evil in that picture I cannot attribute to humanity.

re: #84 blue_like_jazz

oops, the truly disturbing pics mentioned were on a different auschwitz site... but i looked through the ones above as well.

Re: #89 MandyManners

LOL. Yes I have seen that. Ty for the memory of it. And dayum if it doesn't need some pushing right now!

Also, charles, TY for removing the little amoeba that thought he could, and never had a chance.

Ew. That probably didn't come out right. I didn't mean that we should return evil with evil; we should recognize the evil and stand against it.

Sorry, Charles....

I wish I could record and post this interview with Brigitte Gabriel. She is amazing.

re: #101 Killgore Trout

My nightmares usually involve tornadoes. Don't ask why. Too Freudian.

I look at these pictures, and these words come to mind:

"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked. Who can know it?"

- Jeremiah 17:9

(Jeremiah is often called the Weeping Prophet. No doubt. )

re: #88 Maine's Michael

Me too.

re: #87 EC Marm

/ Guy couldn't take a freakin' hint, could he?

He couldn't even take a direct order.

re: #104 Crimsonfisted

I agree. The men laughing have lost their humanity. But nonetheless it is men who do evil, regardless of the source.

When I was 11 I read a horrifying book called "Babi Yar". It was about a young boy in a camp that the Russians took over... and continued killing at I think.

I have a block about it now but would like to find it again, when I did a search for it all I could find were sites debunking it, but the sites seemed to be from the same sorts of folks who try to "debunk the holocaust".

Anyone else remember this book?

re: #109 MandyManners

Get that night of ceiling fan whoopie out of your mind. Let it go...

re: #85 NJDhockeyfan

When I was a kid...around 5 or 6...I met a woman who was in one of the Nazi camps. She didn't talk about her experience there but she showed me her tattoo. That memory has stayed with me for about 40 years.

Just last spring my daughter interviewed an elderly concentration camp survivor - so she could speak FACTS in AP World History in High School.

Her retelling was met with skepticism.

As she related the bit about the tattoo many of the students exclaimed, "No Way!," and such. As the class decorum degenerated into childish taunts ("Way!" No Way!") the teacher finally had to put his foot down, support my daughter and instruct these ignorant whelps to sit and listen.

This passes for education.

re: #18 Maine's Michael

In regards to your link, thanks by the way, here's a real money quote with the #104 photograph the direct translation reads...

"Burying our SS comrades from a terror attack."
[Link: www.ushmm.org...]

So, as understand clearly, Allied forces bombed the Nazis who are MURDERING Jews en mass and invading Europe, causing untold death and suffering.. in a war that they started, and yet THEY are the victims of terror...
Unreal.
~ and sickeningly familiar as today's LSM and CAIR speak.

I am sorry but I do not listen to those who say they did not know what went on in Germany. I realize this was your grandmother whom you love and may have great respect for but I have heard this too often. I think that the shame and guilt is very great and saying " i didn't know" was a defense but just too many people say they didn't know. The people here in the US are not ignorant of the agenda- of our enemies they support it or they choose to let it happen.

Hitler was very open about his agenda. The concentration camp activities were only poorly guarded 'secrets'.

Germans saw the Jews being kicked out of jobs and universities. They saw stars painted on their shops and boycotted those shops. They saw Kristallnacht, and its aftermath, when Jews were made to clean streets in German towns with toothbrushes, and they finally saw them rounded up and taken away.

Many Germans then 'inherited' Jewish property.

While some may not have known the details of what went on extermination camps, EVERYONE was aware of the above, and, in the aggregate, more than tolerated it - they went along with it, participated in it, and benefited from it to varying degrees.

OT, in Mac Browns 11 years at Texas, seven of his football players have become MDs.

When you think about 11 years, versus the time it takes to go through medical school, that ain't bad.

re: #114 Thanos

Find the book..?

re: #119 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet

Huh?

re: #114 Thanos

When I was 11 I read a horrifying book called "Babi Yar". It was about a young boy in a camp that the Russians took over... and continued killing at I think.

I have a block about it now but would like to find it again, when I did a search for it all I could find were sites debunking it, but the sites seemed to be from the same sorts of folks who try to "debunk the holocaust".

Anyone else remember this book?

Oh yes. I read when I was a teenager.

re: #104 Crimsonfisted

But, humans MAKE that choice. To me, that's the central question of existence: which choice do you make? God gave us the ability and power to choose.

re: #109 MandyManners

From our discussion earlier I tried to think who could have been more evil than the Nazis that Columbia could have invited? Ghengis Kahn? Jeffery Dahmer? Charlie Manson? They all pale in comparison.

re: #125 savage_nation

It's twue, it's twue!

Ugh,
that was supposed to be for MamaWinger.
/I'm especially stinky tonight.

I went to school with a relative of Joseph Mengele. Let's just say I have insight into his personality from this historical distance that I wouldn't have had otherwise... His relative was creepy and disturbed in that unhealthy, genetically transmitted dysfunction-that-doesn't-know-it's-dysfunction sort of way.

Evil is indeed intertwined with humanity just as good is.
With out those two concepts, or when we get them confused, or worse -pretend they don't exist, we sink to a level that is little more than animal like.
Pictures like these, when shown to those with a warped or ignorant of perspective of history could actually be counter-productive.
Those moral relativists would look at these pictures and say they were no different than American soldiers. The Germans had families and they loved their children and parents, just as the American soldiers did, and after all they were only doing a job that was given to them to do.
They would say there was no such thing as evil and they would point to those smiling happy Germans that looked so much like us and who loved life just the same as we did and say that if that is evil we must also be evil too, and we are no better than the Nazis.

re: #120 cbinflux

re: #114 Thanos

Find the book..?

No but I haven't done a search in awhile... last time I went ten pages deep in google... just got the sites debunking that it happened, but I know I read the book.

re: #106 MrAndMrsSmith

I keep on hoping that a military commander will understand how devestated Iran will be if ShortShit attacks Israel with a WMD, and blows the man's brains all over the place.

re: #116 Conserve Liberty

re: #85 NJDhockeyfan

When I was a kid...around 5 or 6...I met a woman who was in one of the Nazi camps. She didn't talk about her experience there but she showed me her tattoo. That memory has stayed with me for about 40 years.

Just last spring my daughter interviewed an elderly concentration camp survivor - so she could speak FACTS in AP World History in High School.

Her retelling was met with skepticism.

As she related the bit about the tattoo many of the students exclaimed, "No Way!," and such. As the class decorum degenerated into childish taunts ("Way!" No Way!") the teacher finally had to put his foot down, support my daughter and instruct these ignorant whelps to sit and listen.

This passes for education.

We actually had a survivor come and speak to our class 4th or 5th grade. Would have been '71 '72. I don't imagine they get many requests to speak at schools anymore

re: #114 Thanos

I did a book report on that book in hs. It was on the level.

I'm looking at these series of photos from Iran and thinking that if it weren't for the color, I was looking at 1939 all over again. Did I read that Columbia University is partially funded by some Saudi money?
[Link: www.farsnews.com...]

Babi Yar: A Docutment in the Form of a Novel; New, Complete, Uncensored Version (Paperback)

/Amazon has everything

I take great solace in the fact that the perpetrators of this hell on earth are roasting in hell as we speak. I know quite a few holocaust survivors and what is remarkable to me is what they made of themselves after going through what they did.

Anyone else catch Michael Scheuer's "I don't care, Israel can go to Hell" (my translation, but very close to the meaning of his words) remarks that even shocked Bill Maher (on his show)?

Imagine. All through the 90's, the CIA official in charge of stopping Islamic terrorism, Bin Ladin in particular, an Israel hater.

Wonder why the CIA was so incompetent? You get the feeling that relations with Mossad, for one, was not what it might have been to be beneficial to both countries.

I believe Scheuer would feel right at home among these Nazis.

re: #120 cbinflux

re: #114 Thanos

Find the book..?

BABI YAR

re: #82 cbinflux

re: #68 MandyManners

re: #57 Killgore Trout

re: #52 cbinflux
I just turned it on a few days ago. Might turn it off again. Looks like we're headed for an abortion fight on a friday night. This could get ugly.

Psssssssssst...it's Saturday night.

How can I detest the artist so much, but love the song.

Here's the real song about Saturday Night.

Here's the Wiki entry, but it doesn't mention the brutality of the Soviets after they "freed" the camp, I think I remember something to that effect.

re: #127 Killgore Trout

Ugh,
that was supposed to be for MamaWinger.
/I'm especially stinky tonight.

Oh Killgore.

Sad, silly little Killgore.

* sigh *

re: #135 Killian Bundy

Babi Yar: A Docutment in the Form of a Novel; New, Complete, Uncensored Version (Paperback)

/Amazon has everything

Yay! Thanks KT.

re: #115 cbinflux

re: #109 MandyManners

Get that night of ceiling fan whoopie out of your mind. Let it go...

Earlier today I squirted Dr. Pepper outta' my nose. Tonight, all I did was spew some good Bourbon.

This place ain't good for my sinuses or keyboard.

re: #114 Thanos

Thanos,

There's a very famous poem by Yevtushenko called Babi Yar. Coincidently it was printed on the back cover of the Yizkor booklet we used today in synagogue.

OT
Ed, who punched those doggies?
Study: Catalina bison aren't purebred

re: #116 Conserve Liberty

re: #85 NJDhockeyfan

When I was a kid...around 5 or 6...I met a woman who was in one of the Nazi camps. She didn't talk about her experience there but she showed me her tattoo. That memory has stayed with me for about 40 years.

Just last spring my daughter interviewed an elderly concentration camp survivor - so she could speak FACTS in AP World History in High School.

Her retelling was met with skepticism.

As she related the bit about the tattoo many of the students exclaimed, "No Way!," and such. As the class decorum degenerated into childish taunts ("Way!" No Way!") the teacher finally had to put his foot down, support my daughter and instruct these ignorant whelps to sit and listen.

This passes for education.

Aside from the rudeness of the whelps, I am heartened to realize that they could not understand the depths of human depravity.

re: #104 Crimsonfisted

re: #76 MandyManners

Since I have started going to Catholic class with my adult daughter, I am thinking in terms that evil is not of God, nor the intention He has for man. The evil displayed in that picture for me is something so much deeper than what is, or should be, in mankind. The evil in that picture I cannot attribute to humanity.

Good post.

There is a God. He is good. He is just.

There is evil. It is pictured above.

It is comforting to me to know those bastards are in HELL now. And will be suffering for eternity.

re: #124 Killgore Trout

re: #109

From our discussion earlier I tried to think who could have been more evil than the Nazis that Columbia could have invited? Ghengis Kahn? Jeffery Dahmer? Charlie Manson? They all pale in comparison.

My ex was in Romania shortly after the Revolution. I think Ceucescu was right up there, from the stories he was told. Horrible.

re: #143 MandyManners

You're s'posed to drink bourbon, not snort it!

re: #124 Killgore Trout

re: #109 MandyManners

From our discussion earlier I tried to think who could have been more evil than the Nazis that Columbia could have invited? Ghengis Kahn? Jeffery Dahmer? Charlie Manson? They all pale in comparison.

Lenin, Stalin and Pol Pot come to mind.

My stepmother was selected to live by Mengele. She was on one of the trains out of Hungary, 6 months before the liberation, by Russian troops. She said they were incredulous, and very kind to them. They were killing any caught Germans on the spot.

She has been asked to go on a March of the Living to Auschwitz and Israel next year, to tell the youngsters what happened to her. She asked if I would accompany her.

We have knowledge of what these men did. Try to erase that for a moment from you mind and look at them again.

Men in uniform enjoying a light moment.

Now recall what these men did.

Incarnate evil on earth.

The look little different anyone else, yet they did unspeakable things, evil things, and we must speak of them to remember to recognize the evil.

We know evil men by their words and deeds. The Third Reich was evil, Columbia would have listen to evil men talk. Evil men walk today on this earth, their regime stoning women, hanging men in the cruel way of strangulation, threatening neighbors and the world. And Columbia will listen to them.

Columbia is indicative of the Left. Columbia is taking council with evil, and by extension so is the left.

You are known by the company you keep.

The Left has become an agent of evil, seeking to subvert and overthrow good.

There is no neutral ground you between evil, if you think there is neutral ground failure to support good is supporting evil.

re: #150 MandyManners

re: #124 Killgore Trout

re: #109 MandyManners

From our discussion earlier I tried to think who could have been more evil than the Nazis that Columbia could have invited? Ghengis Kahn? Jeffery Dahmer? Charlie Manson? They all pale in comparison.

Lenin, Stalin and Pol Pot come to mind.

And, Haj Amin al Husseini.

re: #151 Maine's Michael

My stepmother was selected to live by Mengele. She was on one of the trains out of Hungary, 6 months before the liberation, by Russian troops. She said they were incredulous, and very kind to them. They were killing any caught Germans on the spot.

She has been asked to go on a March of the Living to Auschwitz and Israel next year, to tell the youngsters what happened to her. She asked if I would accompany her.

Oh my. Oh my.

re: #132 kcladderman

re: #116 Conserve Liberty

re: #85 NJDhockeyfan

When I was a kid...around 5 or 6...I met a woman who was in one of the Nazi camps. She didn't talk about her experience there but she showed me her tattoo. That memory has stayed with me for about 40 years.

Just last spring my daughter interviewed an elderly concentration camp survivor - so she could speak FACTS in AP World History in High School.
Her retelling was met with skepticism.

As she related the bit about the tattoo many of the students exclaimed, "No Way!," and such. As the class decorum degenerated into childish taunts ("Way!" No Way!") the teacher finally had to put his foot down, support my daughter and instruct these ignorant whelps to sit and listen.

This passes for education.

We actually had a survivor come and speak to our class 4th or 5th grade. Would have been '71 '72. I don't imagine they get many requests to speak at schools anymore

Did you see this story a few months ago?

Schools drop Holocaust lessons to avoid offence

Teachers are dropping controversial subjects such as the Holocaust and the Crusades from history lessons because they do not want to cause offence to children from certain races or religions, a report claims.

Number 5 looks like Ralph Fiennes - in Schindler's List

re: #149 christheprofessor

I snorted Dr. Pepper IN REVERSE. It stung like a sumbitch and was a real mess.

re: #152 jcm

Thank you.

There's a risk in drawing equivalence between one flavor of evil and another. The workaday horror of the Nazis was banal, yes, but unique in its way. Just as each of its victims was unique. Trying to shoehorn in any equivalence merely devalues the past and demeans the victims. History never repeats itself. It does rhyme, however. If there's any justice to be had for the deaths of the innocents, it will be in learning to recognize the rhyme.

re: #85 NJDhockeyfan

When I was a kid...around 5 or 6...I met a woman who was in one of the Nazi camps. She didn't talk about her experience there but she showed me her tattoo. That memory has stayed with me for about 40 years.

Same here. It was an elderly man, who eagerly rolled his sleeve up for me after my father asked him to show it to me. I probably would have forgotten except for the words he said to me, "You never forget this, okay?"

re: #152 jcm

that is a marvelous post. Thank you.

This thread is really quite remarkable.

From the Wiki entry it appears to me that there was controversy as the Russians "DeJewified" the massacre, making "Soviet Citizens" instead of mostly Jews and Roms. Also note this:

Desecration of the memorial complex (July 2006)
On the night of July 16, 2006, the memorial dedicated to the Jewish victims was vandalized. Several gravestones, the foundation of commemorative sledge-stone, and several steps leading to the Menorah memorial were broken. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine issued a statement condemning the act of vandalism.

re: #157 MandyManners

I can imagine how much that carbonation would have burned... I once swallowed "down the wrong pipe," as they say, while doing a shot of tequila... Quite painful...

re: #150 MandyManners

Mao

re: #155 NJDhockeyfan

Teachers are dropping controversial subjects such as the Holocaust and the Crusades from history lessons because they do not want to cause offence to children from certain races or religions, a report claims.

And in my lifetime.
And in the lifetime of the very Survivors.

/wepts

re: #132 kcladderman

We actually had a survivor come and speak to our class 4th or 5th grade. Would have been '71 '72. I don't imagine they get many requests to speak at schools anymore

My daughter just recently had a concentration camp survivor come speak to her 4th grade class. The woman was very direct in telling what went on. The kids were in awe, and very respectful.

re: #161 mama winger

re: #152 jcm

that is a marvelous post. Thank you.

This thread is really quite remarkable.

Really, and I'm starting to tear up.........

re: #153 MandyManners

re: #150 MandyManners

re: #124 Killgore Trout

re: #109 MandyManners
From our discussion earlier I tried to think who could have been more evil than the Nazis that Columbia could have invited? Ghengis Kahn? Jeffery Dahmer? Charlie Manson? They all pale in comparison.

Lenin, Stalin and Pol Pot come to mind.

And, Haj Amin al Husseini.

Let us not forget Mao.

I have no heroic tales to tell of older relatives. My family was from Sweden, nation of cowards, who, to save its own skin and in possible agreement with Hitler, allowed the Nazis to march across its lands and right in to Norway.

I despise the cowards of my heritage.

Step back a minute.

The Holocaust did not happen in a vacuum!

While it was happening, hitler had no idea germany would lose.

And, when the war, for germany, was over; hitler, hiding in a bunker, put a bullet into the back of his own head. With instructions no one was to pee on his dead body.

While General Patton, did, in fact, pee into the Rhine. As he had promised.

And, stalin came in and scared the living daylights out of the living. Who lived from Berlin to the russian border.

As to the dead, it's probably unfortunate that the germans don't have war monuments to remind them of the carnage. Maybe, they just should never have re-built Dresden?

How many dead? How would you like me to count this out for you?

In human losses?

Or in germany's once "Top of the hill" intellectual stature?

Sure, they were the same savages, that earlier on, sent the Goths to destroy Rome. Which put the Europeans into a thousand years of darkness.

Einstein, ONE JEW, made all the difference, folks.

He figured out the atom. And, before you look at losses; you need to consider what the Man Upstairs does! He does NOT turn people into VICTIMS.

To be turned into a victim comes about only when you make this choice.

As to Columbia; at some point in the future ... there could be a talent like Mel Brooks. Emerging. And, giving you the "musical."

You don't see anything funny?

I do. For a university with nothing more to sell than its honor; as a value. They just took a crap on their "credentials."

Heck, the Bonkey party did this to itself, too. Whom do you think identifes their party with the Code Pinkos? Huh.

Just because the left can't do the math, doesn't mean they aren't losing customers.

Maybe, someone should give the "dinner jacket" ... "I came to NY ... and crap is all I got."

re: #139 Canadian Guy

You've brought back memories of the roller rink! Ah, the innocent years.

Well c'mon! The Nazis loved their children, same as we do, so who are we to judge.

As a child I was part of the Columbus BoyChoir Princeton, NJ (now know as the American BoyChoir)
We did the world premiere of "I'll Never See Another Butterfly" a cantata about the Terizenstat(sp?) camp that housed a high number of children .
As a 11-12 year old at the time it was an eye opening picture of abject evil .
The Darkside of human nature .

What is so illuminating about the Left is that many of them argue that evil does not exist. That evil is merely a construct of moralizing(right wing) religious zealots .
Why shouldn't we talk to Dinner Jacket ? He only represents another ( diverse) culture that we should embrace .......

re: #8 astronmr20

You are correct. Many pairs of dead eyes.

re: #151 Maine's Michael

Will you go?

By the way, if anyone here has not seen Blackhawk Down I highly recommend it. What we thought would be a depressing movie was the most exciting, USA are Good Guys, Muslims are Evil movie ever made. Make your teens see it. The thought of living under Islam is more real in that movie than any National Geographic ever printed.

re: #132 kcladderman

Susie described the woman as incredibly sweet and engaging, seemingly delighted that even today a teenager would ASK to hear her story. She was truly moved by the experience.

The woman spent the entire afternoon telling my daughter anecdotes and showing photos and letters. It has indeed been years since she has been invited to speak in the secular world.

In 1970 (HS frosh) I heard a Czech WWII refugee speak - he had emigrated to England and flew for the RAF before coming to America - very moving and he was a staunch supporter of our freedoms. I ended up dating his daughter, but she married my (eventual) brother's-in-law best friend. Funny how tightly woven our little worlds are.

My High School home room advisor (and Russian teacher) was a Jewish Russian emigre who nearly died walking to freedom.

My father wouldn't talk about his WWII experiences, but he was 3rd Army for most of the war and I've seen his dress uniform, so I can guess.

The point here is although I grew up in a world where my paretns wanted to PROTECT my brother and me from ever having to do the things they did, we are here again anyway - and I have the benefit of the stories and the willingness to believe them to encourage me to stand up for what is right. I wonder how many Americans actually think about these things?

Columbia is NOT right.

re: #176 MandyManners

re: #151 Maine's Michael

Will you go?

Oh please do.

Tee-shirt. Last word in the line about what to give the midget from iran. So he can wear it when he gets "home."

Meanwhile, his "partner" Maliki's world is deteriorating.

Secret diary details Holocaust and Nazi crimes

Forty years ago, Scott Kellner's German grandfather gave him a sacred trust: the secret diary he had kept throughout World War II, detailing Nazi atrocities.

Kellner is on a crusade to put a copy in the hands of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who has dismissed the Holocaust as a "Zionist myth."

"I see in him a would-be Hitler," said Kellner, 67, who spent 40 years translating the diary.

"My grandfather saw it as his duty to write the diary against the terrorists of his time, and I see it as my duty to use that diary in the fight against today's terrorists. The truth is a weapon," Kellner said.

Kellner's crusade is ramping up with Ahmadinejad's pending visit to New York.

Kellner, a soft-spoken former New Yorker who taught college in Texas, has invited the Iranian leader to a screening of a documentary about the diary at the George Bush Presidential Library in Texas next week.

Kellner's grandfather, Friedrich Kellner, was an evangelical Lutheran and member of the anti-Nazi Social Democratic Party who risked much by denouncing Hitler at political rallies.

When the war began in 1939, he began keeping a secret diary, including eyewitness accounts of atrocities and numerous newspaper clippings of events of the day.

"A soldier on vacation here said he ... watched as naked Jewish men and women were placed in front of a long, deep ditch and upon the order of the SS were shot by Ukrainians in the back of their heads and they fell into the ditch. Then the ditch was filled with dirt even as he could still hear screams coming from people still alive in the ditch," he wrote on Oct. 28, 1940.

By 1945, 676 entries filled 10 notebooks.

To Friedrich Kellner's distress, his son, Fred, became an ardent Nazi, so he shipped the teenager to New York to keep him out of Hitler's army. In New York, Fred Kellner married a Jewish woman but soon abandoned her and their three kids. He eventually killed himself.

Unable to deal with three kids alone, Scott Kellner's mom left them at a children's home and became a carnival dancer.

In 1960, Scott Kellner went AWOL from the Navy to go find the German grandparents he never knew. When he located them, his grandfather showed him the diary he still kept hidden.

"When my grandfather stood against Adolf Hitler, not enough people stood with him," he said. "I hope more people will take a stand against Ahmadinejad."

And oh my! Joey Korn is still running his most excellent site on the Holocaust: Holocaust Cybrary. I haven't visited it in years. Highly recommended.

re: #151 Maine's Michael

You should go! I know several people who went and say it is an amazing experience.

/my mother, on the other hand, would never set foot in Europe - ever again.

re: #151 Maine's Michael

G-d bless her. Would you go? Has she ever contacted Spielberg, who's only redeeming grace is his having survivors interviewed ,world-wide, and being kept for posterity, as more and more people forget...and the Ahmadinadinnerjacket types destroy the truth?

I wish our leaders spoke with as heartfelt eloquence as txlady and jcm

If Muslims had nothing to do with the Holocaust, why are they upset that it is taught?

1. The pictures are new. What they reveal isn't.
2. The memoirs/testimony of Hoess at the Auschwitz trial in Frankfurt (1963...) and others showed that Arendt (still longing for and deferring to her mentor/lover Heidegger) took the persona Eichmann created for his trial a few years later at face value. The "evil" was not banal; the evil doers were in the rest of their lives. Not the same
3. Her phrase has been accepted as a seminal insight into the psyche of the Nazi killer. It's not.
4. Pictures have been around for decades, of SS men doing their "banal" stuff. It was daily work for them, all right, but the grins on their faces, the delight they (very often if not always) took in that work belies the "cog caught in the wheels of the Nazi machinery" image Eichmann tried to project.
5. The catchiness of her phrase has overshadowed what so many histories of the Holocaust and recollections of perpetrators, bystanders and victims have shown us for years.
Time to retire the Arendt phrase.

re: #121 cbinflux

re: #119 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet

Huh?

Doctors. You know, white coats, stephescopes, golf on Wednesday.

re: #163 savage_nation

Yes.

OMG!

Holocaust Survivor's Neighbor Was Nazi

MESA, Ariz. (AP) — Nathan Gasch and Martin Hartmann lived next door to each other for four years in a quiet retirement community called Leisure World.

You can tell where Gasch had been six decades earlier by the tattooed number on his arm. Gasch could see where Hartmann had been when he walked into his neighbor's house and a picture of him wearing a Nazi hat on the wall.

Gasch, a survivor of the Auschwitz concentration camp, saw the picture soon after he first moved in, when Hartmann and his wife invited him to their house in Mesa, east of Phoenix.

"I just walked out of the room," said Gasch, a soft-spoken 84-year-old with a Polish accent.

But he didn't notify authorities.

"Maybe I was too childish," he said in an interview with The Associated Press. "I figured we were living in a community here. I just let it go."

Hartmann, 88, was forced to move back to Germany last month, after investigators tracked the man's history through immigration records, old rosters and other documents, said Jaclyn Lesch, U.S. Department of Justice spokeswoman.

"His wife lied about where she was born to not raise questions," Lesch said, "and (Hartmann) said he worked in a cantina."

During World War II, Hartmann had been an armed SS guard at Germany's Sachsenhausen concentration camp, where prisoners were forced into slave labor, subjected to horrific medical experimentation and tortured. Thousands died of starvation, disease, exhaustion and murder.

Born in Romania, Hartmann immigrated to the United States in 1955 and became a citizen in 1961, according to the Justice Department. He joined the SS Death's Head Guard Battalion at Sachsenhausen in July 1943 and served with the Nazis until the end of the war.

re: #170 mama winger

I'm with you. I found out recently that my ancestors were French (Huguenot). That explains my affinity for naps, cheese and wine.

re: #164 christheprofessor

re: #157 MandyManners

I can imagine how much that carbonation would have burned... I once swallowed "down the wrong pipe," as they say, while doing a shot of tequila... Quite painful...

I did the same thing with Bourbon. I staggered out of the night club into the alley. Good grief. Fire!

re: #188 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet
That was crystal, the math/point, not so much...

I've told of my mother's encounter with a holocaust memento encountered when I was a small child in Germany a week or so back.

re: #176 MandyManners

re: #151 Maine's Michael

Will you go?

I am thinking about it. She is getting on in years, and raised me from the age of 12.

The only thing giving me pause is the thought of leaving my three young children for two weeks. I can't bear to be without them. Friends say I have to develop that ability, but so far I have not been able to.

While Auschwitz will be unbearable, the second week, in Israel, is made to coincide with modern Israel's 60th birthday (death-rebirth, I guess). It should be quite the event, particularly if Persia is defeated by then.

re: #165 cbinflux

How could I forget that asshole?!

re: #18 Maine's Michael

Well, thank God the Nazis were failures. They only succeeded in completing a fraction of their goal before the Allies took them down. Thank God the good people won the war. Otherwise, so many more would have died and a free western civilization might have been extinguished at Hitler's hand. Unfortunately, we are now engaged with another enemy as insidious and more dangerous than Hitler's forces. At least the Nazis and Japanese came at us full force and in the open. The Islamists are more subtle and therefore more effective as they are able to come quietly from within while convincing so many that they are innocent.

In Feb. 2005, I spent 3 weeks in Poland, doing research for my new play about Janusz Korczak and his oprhanage. I spoke to many Poles, some university professors and a number of Germans that were germain to the story, and I also did many hours of research at home, and I can tell you this, they knew what was happening. And we in the United States knew.

I also know a number of people here in the Denver area who escaped from that horror and they tell me the same thing. It was not a big secret.

I had to go there, to Warsaw, to the camps. I started writing the play in the spring of 2004, and realized that all I was doing was putting facts on the page, but no feelings. I got my feelings in my trip to Poland. It's left something with me that I will never be able to get rid of, and I don't want to.

(Self-serving pitch - if anyone in the Denver area is interested, a public reading of the play will take place Oct. 17th, 2007 at the Mizal Center in Denver - see my web site or email for more information)

Walter in Golden, Co.

My Grandmother is from Germany. She told me I had an uncle killed by the Nazis when they invaded Poland and another one who was a bomber pilot for the Allies and was shot down.

re: #186 pat

Pat,

To them *itler (may his name be obliterated) was a hero, and Arafart's uncle adored them.

/They learned so much from their teachers.

I cannot even imagine any one individual being equal to the evil of *itler. I cannot.

Mrs. Mahmoud wants laptop, so see y'all later.

re: #202 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet

Mrs. Mahmoud wants laptop, so see y'all later.

Ed is a very lucky man.

re: #202 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet

Good night, Ed.

re: #195 Maine's Michael

If you go, that will be a marvelous memory to pass down to your kids. It'll be a tangible piece of history.

Could you take a lap top with a camera and leave a camera attached to a computer at home for daily "visits"?

But, I'm not pushing you. I know the pain of being away from your kids.

An Iranians look at what we are up against. Links and stories about executions, head lines etc....
Worth a look Lizards.

Maine's Michael

GO! My partner's son went last year and it really impacted his life. I think what amazed him most was that when they were in Poland they went to the town where his new friend and camp survivor, Saul, was from. Some ass came up to Saul and said that Saul's father was cheap and had cheated him out of wages and that Saul should pay him. As if losing his father in Auschwitz wasn't payment enough!

It was a very important lesson for the kids to learn - Anti-semitism is still alive and well in Europe.

re: #198 peck

Well, thank God the Nazis were failures. They only succeeded in completing a fraction of their goal before the Allies took them down. Thank God the good people won the war. Otherwise, so many more would have died and a free western civilization might have been extinguished at Hitler's hand.

I read a quote by Peggy Noonan, Reagan's speechwriter, who said that although WW2 ended in 1945 for the West, for those behind the Iron Curtain it did not end until the 1980's.

Many did die, and a free Western Civilization was almost extinguished, in the Eastern bloc countries. Their war went on for another 40 years.

re: #152 jcm

Thank you.

re: #21 MandyManners

I guess killing millions was hard work.

What I have a hard time understanding is how those bastards looked at what they did as if there was nothing wrong with it.

As far as they were concerned, there was nothing wrong with it. This is why I agree with Alistair MacLean:

"The good Nazi is the one who is no longer breathing."

re: #205 MandyManners

Could you take a lap top with a camera and leave a camera attached to a computer at home for daily "visits"?

That is an excellent idea. Thank you.

re: #201 NY Nana

Nana, I know that is true. But how does a school system reconcile holocaust denial as an appeasement to Muslims? What does the School Board in Britain say? "Our Muslim students deny the Holocaust happened, so we are going to believe them rather than our dead fathers and mothers?" Did all of their teachers graduate from Columbia. And speaking of that, What has Mayor Bloombat and The Spitster said about this......crickets.

Any bicyclists near El Paso? This happened yesterday...

The El Paso Holocaust Museum and Study Center today announced the second "Tour de Tolerance" Bike Event and Family Ride on October 21, 2007.

The museum also announced a new relationship with The Children's Hospital at Providence, a long time supporter of the museum. The museum's new hallmark event will now be called The Children's Hospital at Providence Tour de Tolerance benefiting the El Paso Holocaust Museum.

"The Children's Hospital at Providence is a strong supporter of the El Paso Holocaust Museum and its mission to combat intolerance through education and to remind the world, especially children, of the value and dignity of human life", John Harris, president of Sierra Providence Health Network, said in a news release. "The Children's Hospital Tour de Tolerance is a fantastic opportunity to not only promote health and fitness among our youth but also the principles of acceptance and compassion."

The Children's Hospital at Providence Tour de Tolerance Bike Event and Fun ride will take to the streets and highways through the relatively flat grade desert landscape. The 100K course takes accomplished riders from the starting line at Fort Bliss to "the edge of Texas!" up through Loop 375 and back to Ft. Bliss. The 50K mirrors part of the 100k challenge while the 10K ride is both fun and health-promoting for cyclists of all ages and riding abilities.

For more information, go to [Link: www.tourdetolerance.com...]

:o)

Our St. Pancake probably is one of the very best teachers of the Holocaust on the planet. Her students are blessed to have her.

re: #213 NJDhockeyfan

No, it's next month.

The thing about the Holocaust, and what was known or not known ......

Fact is, nobody much cared if Jews died. They still don't.

Click on photo #7, the one with the SS having their singalong. The accordionist is very possibly a trusty from the prison camp, on temporary parole from the gas chambers. The Nazis did love to toy with their victims...

i read a book a few years ago , forgot the title, but it was about the aftermath of the fall of the USSR , and the misuse by some Russians of their new-found freedoms. Several accounts of weekend parties going out with metal detectors on the WW2 battlefields and digging up remains of Russian and German soldiers for whatever they could scrounge. The one account that haunts me is one of the desecration of Babi-Yar , near Kiev, by these ghouls. Apparently they`ve desecrated many of the sites of massacres in search of salable items. This is beyond obscene , there is no rest even in death for some of the victims.

re: #208 mama winger

We have such a short-sighted view. To write history correctly, it takes a long perspective. The benefits laid down with the Marshal Plan were perhaps a long time coming, but they did come. Maybe we need the longer view in Iraq also - just so we don't confuse success with failure because we are so easily disappointed.

re: #169 Thanos

Indeed.

re: #132 kcladderman

re: #116 Conserve Liberty

re: #85 NJDhockeyfan

When I was a kid...around 5 or 6...I met a woman who was in one of the Nazi camps. She didn't talk about her experience there but she showed me her tattoo.

Just last spring my daughter interviewed an elderly concentration camp survivor - so she could speak FACTS in AP World History in High School.

We actually had a survivor come and speak to our class 4th or 5th grade. Would have been '71 '72. I don't imagine they get many requests to speak at schools anymore

I went to school with kids whose PARENTS were survivors. My kids grew up with next-door neighbors who were survivors who used to tell them stories about the camps.

Our congregation is full of survivors and their families.

It's hard for me to imagine that soon the eyewitness survivors will become extinct.

re: #196 savage_nation

She is a German Jew whose family have been here since the late 1800's.

savage,

My mother arrived in the U.S. in 1948.

/An aside: If you think the U.S. was welcoming European Jews (Holocaust survivors) even after the war, think again.

One of my favorite stories about my mother's opinion of Europe: When I graduated college I wanted to visit Europe (all my friends were going). She said, "WHY would you want to go visit that ugly, dirty place?! How about a nice trip to MyAmEee?"

/Classic! :-)

Goodnite, lizards. Thank you for the thought-provoking conversation.

re: #75 txlady

Absolutely RIGHT ON! That brought tears to my eyes.

MamaShawna

re: #186 pat

If Muslims had nothing to do with the Holocaust, why are they upset that it is taught?

They had EVERYTHING to do with the Holocaust. Research Haj Amin al Husseini.

The life of a Holocaust survivor; Marine on St. Croix filmmaker chronicles World War II survivor's past

MARINE ON ST. CROIX - While working on a short film about Reidar Dittman, a member of the Norwegian resistance during World War II who eventually immigrated to America and became a professor at St. Olaf College, the hard part for local filmmaker Gayle Knutson wasn't finding compelling events to highlight.

Rather, it was the opposite.

"You have to take the man's entire life and bring it down to nine minutes," Knutson said of her newest film, "Prisoner 32,232," a short that chronicles Dittman's early life in Norway and fighting the Nazi movement through Europe. The film's title refers to the number Dittman was issued when he spent 30 months at the Buchenwald Concentration Camp in the mid-1940s.

Valley film buffs will recognize Knutson's name from her work on "If There Were No Lutherans, Would There Still be Green Jell-O?" and also "Grandfather's Birthday."

Knutson's newest film is part of the Minnesota Historical Society's "Moving Pictures Film" competition, which asks filmmakers to unearth stories from "Minnesota's Greatest Generation," those born between 1910 and 1929.

Some films from the contest will be elected to air on Twin Cities Public Television with Ken Burns' new documentary "The War."

TPT will air Knutson's film at 10 p.m. on Sunday, Oct. 7. Her film is one of five finalists in the Minnesota Historical Society competition, and the winners will be announced Sunday, Oct. 21, with public screenings of all submissions at the Minnesota History Center from noon until 5 p.m.

A ceremony will follow at the Riverview Theatre, where the Minnesota Historical Society will award $10,500 in cash prizes to five winning submissions, including a $5,000 cash prize for the best film.

The film opens with Dittman's voice, recalling the "continuous gray existence" of Buchenwald. In 1940, he was arrested by the Nazis while leading a group in singing patriotic Norwegian songs at an anti-Nazi gathering in Norway. The German police mistakenly considered him an organizer and Dittman was blacklisted.

He would be arrested a total of three times, the last of which while a student at the University of Oslo. After that arrest, Dittman was sent to Buchenwald. In the film, he speaks about the hierarchy of prisoners at the camp, from the Norwegians, to the Soviets, to the Jews. At that point in the war, Dittman recalled, the Jewish prisoners were not even processed, they were sent directly from the packed train cars into the gas chambers.

"They were there to be annihilated," Dittman said.

He eventually was liberated and received a scholarship to St. Olaf College, where he would become not only a graduate but also an esteemed professor. The school's art and dance departments are housed in the Dittman Center, named in his honor.

As a World War II buff, the subject was particularly fascinating to Knutson.

"It was interesting to sit in a room with a man who had (been involved) with all of this," she said.

With 1,000 World War II veterans dying everyday, these stories must come to light, Knutson said.

"I lot of them never told their stories and are starting to tell it now. It's important to get these stories documented before these people leave us," she said.

Amen

re: #214 NY Nana

Our St. Pancake probably is one of the very best teachers of the Holocaust on the planet. Her students are blessed to have her.

Very true! And so are we (when she shows up - WHERE IS SHE?!)

re: #216 mama winger

The thing about the Holocaust, and what was known or not known ......

Fact is, nobody much cared if Jews died. They still don't.

That's why P. J. O'Rourke said that Zionism was the most realistic of all the 20th century's "isms". Socialism, communism, nazism, etc. all got human nature wrong. But they all approved of killing jews, and were going to do more of it.

re: #210 Steffan

As far as they were concerned, there was nothing wrong with it.

That is exactly it. They BELIEVED Jews, Gypsies, Gays, Slavs were subhuman. They bought the whole stroy. Years of propaganda and der sturmer, and villification, and the slow erosion of Jewsih rights in Germany before the war started. By the time the camps were opened, they couldn't wait to get on with the job.

Sadly, the Muslim world has now been dehumanizing Jews for DECADES. 2-3 generations, depending on the country. It is now bred in the bone. There is no way to reform them, because it has been intertwined with the Islam-from-which-there-is-no-escape. Thank God that so far, they are mostly inept, nowhere near to the top of the game wartime Germans in effectiveness.

This drumbeat will inevitably lead to another attempt at genocide, and once again, the western world will look on, tsk tsk-ing, that the Jews really shouldn't have stolen palestinian land, killed Mohammed al-Dura, and all the other modern day blood libels.

James Baker plays the part of Henry Ford, or perhaps Prescott Bush, Michael Moore the part of Charles Lindbergh, etc, etc, etc.

History repeats again, EXCEPT THIS TIME, there is an Israel.

We'll see.

re: #223 mama winger

Goodnite, lizards. Thank you for the thought-provoking conversation.

Sending peaceful and pleasant dreams express mail.

re: #186 pat

If Muslims had nothing to do with the Holocaust, why are they upset that it is taught?

Who said that Muslims had nothing to do with the Holocaust? Look around the website that the pictures came from. Link

At his first meeting with Hitler on November 28, the Mufti tried unsuccessfully to secure a public Axis declaration favoring Arab independence. In April 1942, Hitler was willing to make only a secret commitment to Arab independence and an end to the Jewish National Home in Palestine. For the duration of the war, al-Husayni promoted pro-Axis, anti-Jewish propaganda from Berlin throughout the Arab world, called for an Arab revolt against Britain and the destruction of the Jewish National Home, and lobbied to create Muslim units in the German army. He helped to recruit the ineffective but highly controversial 13th Waffen SS Division “Handschar,” a unit made up of about 20,000 mostly Bosnian Muslims. “Handschar” were deployed mainly against Tito’s anti-Axis partisan units in Yugoslavia. There is general agreement that the “Handschar” division committed atrocities against civilians in the context of German occupation and internal civil war.

re: #212 pat

Pat,

I agree with every single word..I cannot understand them. I just cannot. Spitzer is a thug, and Bloomberg is a putz. Money does not give one brains, as they so eloquently show us.

BTW, Spitzer is such a schmuck that he is giving illegals the right to a drivers' license.

/I guess he was out of town during 9/11, and hasn't heard about it yet.

Bloomberg is a demonrat pretending to be a Republican. I just pray this kills his Presidential aspirations forever.

re: #225 MandyManners

Mandy, of course. I know this. I was taking the official Muslim line. I want to know why a school board thinks it important to appease something the appeasee says did not occur, and if it did , they weren't there.

If you have high blood pressure don't read the rest of this post

Israel to release 100 prisoners for Ramadan
Government expected to approve list of 100 Palestinian prisoners to be released as goodwill gesture for Muslim holy month

Ronny Sofer
Published: 09.23.07, 01:27 / Israel News

The release of some 100 Palestinian prisoners is expected to be approved by the government Sunday, as a goodwill gesture for the Muslim holy month of Ramadan.

Once the list of names is approved, a 48-hour waiting period will begin, during which objections can be made. Should no significant delays occur, the 100 prisoners are expected to be released on Tuesday.

The Justice Ministry decided to release only prisoners who did not have blood on their hands.

The list includes mostly Fatah members, as well as a few members of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine. No Hamas or Islamic Jihad members are included.

The move follows a request by Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas during a meeting with Prime Minister Ehud Olmert prior to Rosh Hashana.

During the meeting, Olmert promised to release prisoners, although the exact number was not discussed.

Israel’s last goodwill gesture to the Palestinian Authority included the release of 255 prisoners, a move Olmert committed to during a regional summit in Sharm el-Sheikh last June.

re: #160 EC Marm

re: #85 NJDhockeyfan

When I was a kid...around 5 or 6...I met a woman who was in one of the Nazi camps. She didn't talk about her experience there but she showed me her tattoo. That memory has stayed with me for about 40 years.

Same here. It was an elderly man, who eagerly rolled his sleeve up for me after my father asked him to show it to me. I probably would have forgotten except for the words he said to me, "You never forget this, okay?"

I still remember seeing a woman on the streetcar who had a number tattooed on her arm. I wanted to talk to her, but it didn't seem right, given the setting. For a number of years, I've thought about calling a synagogue and asking if there is a Holocaust survivor who might want to talk to me. I don't know why, but I really want to meet a survivor and have a "connection" with what happened -- maybe it's to truly impress upon me how evil man can be and spur me to be more active in fighting those forces.

Ummmm.......
What can I say?

"waving"

re: #232 NY Nana

Nana, he quit the GOP last month. And Bloombat is my official name now.

Columbia University - the same type of appeasers as in 1930s.
Here is an illustration of this from “Troublesome Young Men (The Rebels who Brought Churchill to Power and Helped Save England)” by Lynne Olson, p.66:

“One of the most outspoken supporters of Germany was the Prince of Wales, who told a German prince in 1933 that “it was no business of ours to interfere in Germany’s internal affairs either [regarding] Jews or [regarding] anything else” and that “ dictators are very popular these days and we might want one in England before long.” Indeed, the prince was so vociferous in his praise of the Nazis that on one occasion even his pro-German father thought he had gone too far and told him to tone it down.
(...) The prince’s admiration of Germany and its government was shared by a substantial segment of the British establishment, including many prominent businessmen, politicians, former military leaders, press barons, and aristocrats. In 1935 the German Embassy in London encouraged a group of these admirers from the country’s social and government elite to form the Anglo-German Fellowship to strengthen British ties with Nazi Germany. The organization touted itself as nonpolitical, but according to the historian Ian Kershaw, it “served largely as an indirect tool of Nazi propaganda in high places, a vehicle for exerting German influence in Britain.” Among its founding members were fifty members of both Houses of Parliament and several retired generals and admirals (...).
Three directors of the Bank of England were also on the memberships rolls, as were executives of such large industrial firms as Firth-Vickers, Unilever, and Dunlop.”

re: #236 St. Pancake

HI!

re: #227 littleoldlady

She has been so busy..too many things at once. She is the teacher every kid should have, but can't be cloned, sadly.

Also dental work, IIRC. I will try to drag her back.

re: #207 scathach

Maine's Michael

GO! My partner's son went last year and it really impacted his life. I think what amazed him most was that when they were in Poland they went to the town where his new friend and camp survivor, Saul, was from. Some ass came up to Saul and said that Saul's father was cheap and had cheated him out of wages and that Saul should pay him. As if losing his father in Auschwitz wasn't payment enough!

It was a very important lesson for the kids to learn - Anti-semitism is still alive and well in Europe.

If I were Saul, I would've been hard-pressed not to have smacked the shit out of that jerk.

re: #100 MandyManners

thank you.
I find y'all to be a comfort.
/hugs

re: #217 The Sanity Inspector

Click on photo #7, the one with the SS having their singalong. The accordionist is very possibly a trusty from the prison camp, on temporary parole from the gas chambers. The Nazis did love to toy with their victims...

Whoops, clicking over to #10 I see that I am wrong.

Israeli commandos seized nuclear material of North Korean origin during a daring raid on a secret military site in Syria before Israel bombed it this month, according to informed sources in Washington and Jerusalem.

The attack was launched with American approval on September 6 after Washington was shown evidence the material was nuclear related, the well-placed sources say.

They confirmed that samples taken from Syria for testing had been identified as North Korean.

re: #211 Maine's Michael

It doesn't replace the nightly bath and hugs but, it is something.

re: #236 St. Pancake

Do I know you? :) Show me some ID, please.

Y'all have conjured up St. Pancake.

re: #244 freshcut

Israeli commandos seized nuclear material of North Korean origin during a daring raid on a secret military site in Syria before Israel bombed it this month, according to informed sources in Washington and Jerusalem.

The attack was launched with American approval on September 6 after Washington was shown evidence the material was nuclear related, the well-placed sources say.

They confirmed that samples taken from Syria for testing had been identified as North Korean.

So busted!

re: #246 NY Nana

Secret Lizrad tail-shake

re: #236 St. Pancake

Ummmm.......
What can I say?

"waving"

YOU? LURKING?! Why?

{St. Pancake!} I've missed you!

Yes, I spent beaucoup on the grinners and replacing a transmission etc. etc.

No fun.

My school had two Holocaust speakers last year. Tremendous applause for them too. Very gratifying to see from the kids.

re: #229 Maine's Michael

History repeats again, EXCEPT THIS TIME, there is an Israel.

We'll see.

Yeah, and the payback is going to be a bitch.

"We don't need no edjucation. "

re: #244 freshcut

Hi, freshcut. Are you quoting from a story? Sounds interesting.

The poop is fixin to hit the proverbial fan...axis of evil, coming right up!

re: #222 littleoldlady

re: #196 savage_nation

She is a German Jew whose family have been here since the late 1800's.

savage,

My mother arrived in the U.S. in 1948.

/An aside: If you think the U.S. was welcoming European Jews (Holocaust survivors) even after the war, think again.

One of my favorite stories about my mother's opinion of Europe: When I graduated college I wanted to visit Europe (all my friends were going). She said, "WHY would you want to go visit that ugly, dirty place?! How about a nice trip to MyAmEee?"

/Classic! :-)

I find it unbelievable that the U.S. shut off immigration from Eastern Europe before and during this period.

What was the name of the ship that contained Jewish children and was turned away from a Florida port?

re: #194 Thanos

I've told of my mother's encounter with a holocaust memento encountered when I was a small child in Germany a week or so back.

I remember - an encounter with a soft lampshade while socializing.

Just posted to Drudge a bit ago from Sunday London Times

Momentarily lurking.

Have been nutty busy lately. Terrible, but life is returning to a normal frantic pace. Thank heavens.

re: #244 freshcut
Here's a link for that:
[Link: www.timesonline.co.uk...]

re: #256 MandyManners

The St. Louis?

re: #247 cbinflux

Y'all have conjured up St. Pancake.

We're like Dorothy clicking her Ruby Slippers. We wish and she appears.

re: #3 gymnast

Columbia University, poster child for the absurd.

First. You get the poster. Up ahead? Perhaps a "Springtime for Hitler" musical?

You might not want to believe this, but Mel Brook's produced a very funny film. And, then a musical.

The material is there.

You just have to become less afraid.

By the way, laughing at these people crushes them. It's way more effective than screaming at them. (Or at two year olds.)

re: #106 MrAndMrsSmith

Re: #89 MandyManners

LOL. Yes I have seen that. Ty for the memory of it. And dayum if it doesn't need some pushing right now!

Also, charles, TY for removing the little amoeba that thought he could, and never had a chance.

Michael in MI has been around for a long time, though. Let's hope that this is a temporary lapse, and Charles lets him back in after some suitable contrition.

Savage dear
Are you referring to the St. Louis?