Jimmy Carter: The Civil War Was ‘Un-Christian’

US News • Views: 3,875

In his new book, America’s most disgraceful former President says the Civil War was unnecessary, and “un-Christian.”

Here’s the latest outrage from Jimmy Carter, the ex-President so many Americans love to hate: He claims the Civil War - which he calls, Southern-style, “The War Between the States” - was un-Christian and could have been avoided.

The comments come in a new book, “In Lincoln’s Hand: His Original Manuscripts With Commentary By Distinguished Americans.” Carter comments on a passage by Lincoln in which Lincoln writes: “I am almost ready to say this is probably true - that God wills this contest, and wills that it shall not end yet.”

Carter writes that he finds the Lincoln writing “very troubling.” Continues Carter: “He ignores the fact that the tragic combat might have been avoided altogether, and that the leaders of both sides, overwhelmingly Christian, were violating a basic premise of their belief as followers of the Prince of Peace.” He concludes: “A legitimate question for historians is how soon the blight of slavery would have been terminated peacefully in America, as in Great Britain and other civilized societies.”

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749 comments
1 Sharmuta  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:07:22am

He's been smoking from pat buchanan's stash?

2 debutaunt  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:07:41am

Ol' crazy jimmy.

3 WriterMom  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:08:11am

Well, at least he's turned his attention away from the JOOOOOOOOOOS for a while.

/

4 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:08:27am

Bet he sings, "My Old Kentucky Home", and his favorite line is the one about the "darkies".

Spit!

5 reine.de.tout  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:08:34am

Was Carter always this crazy, or has he gotten crazier with age?

6 Alaska Kim  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:08:41am

What a blithering idiot.

7 Fat Jolly Penguin  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:08:53am

Another book from the Useless One?

*headdesk*

8 Opinionated  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:09:06am

If you have the book, look in the index for me, on what page does he begin to blame Israel.

9 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:09:07am

If I had a choice between the two self-proclaimed Christians Jimmy Carter, and William Wilberforce, which one would I choose...

/Hmmm...Boy, is this tough...

10 Dave the.....  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:09:29am

or President James Buchanan's stash.

11 albusteve  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:09:41am

he's just fine tuning his Airport Lounge routine...no big deal

12 fish  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:10:06am

I wish people would stop giving this man pen, paper or microphones. Why can't he just go somewhere warm and play golf for the rest of his days?

13 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:10:49am

re: #12 fish

I wish people would stop giving this man pen, paper or microphones. Why can't he just go somewhere warm and play golf for the rest of his days?

There are rabbits on golf courses, potentially.

14 opnion  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:10:54am

I'm surprised that he didn't call it 'The War of Northern Aggression."

15 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:10:58am

Jimmy Crater is an ass. Right prevailed over wrong. What's un-Christian about that?

16 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:11:00am

The war could possibly have been avoided if the DEMOCRATIC President James Buchanan had been less of a fool, like you Jimmah.

17 jdog29  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:11:10am

He's always been this crazy and this is just another example why his administration was a joke and a disaster for our nation.

18 Dianna  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:11:34am

He ignores the fact that the issue was as much the expansion - both physical and social - of slavery.

At least he still thinks of slavery as a blight. Otherwise, I might succumb to using harsh language.

19 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:11:49am

re: #14 opnion

I'm surprised that he didn't call it 'The War of Northern Aggression."

That would have increased the sales with the self-hating North-Eastern Liberal Elites.

20 Erik The Red  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:11:55am

RACIST.

21 Wishing  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:12:08am

Lincoln the Republican. 'nuff said.

22 Abu Kuffar  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:12:08am

He actually thinks that opposing slavery was "un-christian"? He has no clue about what christianity really is.

23 dhg4  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:12:25am

So if violence can never be justified, why does he have this strange affinity for terrorists?

24 Dave the.....  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:12:27am

You have to wonder, if the North wouldn't have totally destroyed the south, if perminant peace would have happened. Or would there have been a seperatists movement go on for decades.

25 Sharmuta  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:12:31am

re: #18 Dianna

He ignores the fact that the issue was as much the expansion - both physical and social - of slavery.

At least he still thinks of slavery as a blight. Otherwise, I might succumb to using harsh language.

And of keeping the Union intact.

26 SaracensAtTheGates  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:12:35am
He concludes: “A legitimate question for historians is how soon the blight of slavery would have been terminated peacefully in America, as in Great Britain and other civilized societies.”

Because the American Civil War was not about slavery, doyathink? What a dolt.

27 tfc3rid  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:12:36am

I think Jimmy Carter is pretty 'un-Christian'

28 opnion  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:12:36am

re: #19 FurryOldGuyJeans

That would have increased the sales with the self-hating North-Eastern Liberal Elites.

Probably.

29 MandyManners  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:12:52am

How Christian of him was it to shoot that cat?

30 Wishing  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:13:11am

re: #23 dhg4

So if violence can never be justified, why does he have this strange affinity for terrorists?

So much for the *freedom fighter* thing, eh?
He needs to go away, far, far away.

31 UberInfidel67  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:13:23am

He concludes: “A legitimate question for historians is how soon the blight of slavery would have been terminated peacefully in America, as in Great Britain and other civilized societies.”

I thought America led the charge to end slavery. Did GB do it before us? And WHAT other civilized societies?

32 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:13:25am

re: #12 fish

I wish people would stop giving this man pen, paper or microphones. Why can't he just go somewhere warm and play golf for the rest of his days?

I think there are quite a few Americans who need constant reminders of just how much of a total incompetent the man was a POTUS.

33 dmh0667  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:13:28am
.....the Civil War - which he calls, Southern-style, “The War Between the States” -

I'm sorry, when was it ever "Southern-style" to call the American Civil War this? I always thought it was "The War of Northern Aggression"?

34 BingoBunny  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:13:55am

#3
Well, at least he's turned his attention away from the JOOOOOOOOOOS for a while.

/
You forget the Jews started the Civil War.. "un Christian".. hence JOOOs

35 MandyManners  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:13:59am
36 fish  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:14:01am

re: #13 EmmmieG

There are rabbits on golf courses, potentially.

Good point. Never Forget

37 Dave the.....  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:14:03am

Conventional wisdom has always been that eventually slavery would have ended anyway in the south. But others say that no, it would have just moved into factories.

38 albusteve  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:14:32am

does his church have "Onward Christian Soldiers" in their hymnals?

39 jdog29  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:14:35am

The REAL legitimate question is how many countries would the current United States be divided into if Jimmy had been the president instead of Lincoln?

40 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:14:37am

Big difference between 'Prince of Peace' and 'Prince of Peace at all costs'.

In Jimmy's mind Jesus Christ himself is most likely Un-Christian.

He is all for U.N.-Christians, however.

41 itellu3times  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:14:45am

re: #3 WriterMom

Well, at least he's turned his attention away from the JOOOOOOOOOOS for a while.

/

are you sure? better read it first.

42 so.cal.swede  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:14:53am

re: #23 dhg4

So if violence can never be justified, why does he have this strange affinity for terrorists?

don't ask him. his head will pop.

wait... do it.

43 dmh0667  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:15:00am

re: #37 Dave the.....

Conventional wisdom has always been that eventually slavery would have ended anyway in the south. But others say that no, it would have just moved into factories.

Slavery....Card Check....same difference.

44 Wishing  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:15:12am

re: #35 MandyManners

Spirit fingers!

Funny picture, what with the Hebrew word TRUTH in the seal.
LOL

45 Dianna  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:15:24am

re: #25 Sharmuta

And of keeping the Union intact.

Oh, yes. But there are a series of conflicts that came to a head in the secession movement. It is more than possible to disagree on the importance and significance of each one. What one cannot ignore is that these issues could not (given the era and the passions of the participants) settled by discussion and compromise.

46 DisturbedEma  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:15:28am

re: #42 so.cal.swede

don't ask him. his head will pop.

wait... do it.

Cognitive. . .ah hell, the man is just crazy!

47 so.cal.swede  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:15:31am

re: #39 jdog29

The REAL legitimate question is how many countries would the current United States be divided into if Jimmy had been the president instead of Lincoln?

And how many would still embrace slavery?

48 brookly red  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:15:51am

re: #37 Dave the.....

Conventional wisdom has always been that eventually slavery would have ended anyway in the south. But others say that no, it would have just moved into factories.

/ and then outsourced it to China?

49 itellu3times  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:15:55am

re: #27 tfc3rid

I think Jimmy Carter is pretty 'un-Christian'

not so pretty

50 Irish Rose  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:16:03am

I wonder how many of Carters' ancestors were slave owners? A lot of respectable southern Christians were.

51 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:16:03am
In his new book

I wouldn't call it "his" book; he's a contributor.

Carter's comments are so stunning that at a recent discussion about the new book at the New-York Historical Society, both the book's co-editor, Joshua Wolf Shenk, and another "distinguished American" who contributed to the book, Cynthia Ozick, distanced themselves from them. Shenk said he disagreed, and Ozick mocked the idea of negotiating with slave masters.

Heh.

52 tfc3rid  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:16:04am

re: #31 UberInfidel67

He concludes: “A legitimate question for historians is how soon the blight of slavery would have been terminated peacefully in America, as in Great Britain and other civilized societies.”

I thought America led the charge to end slavery. Did GB do it before us? And WHAT other civilized societies?

Palestine, of course...

53 ORD neighbor  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:16:17am

And this nutcase had launch authority over US nuclear weapons for four years...

54 DisturbedEma  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:16:26am

re: #41 itellu3times

are you sure? better read it first.

If he says that Jews caused the Civil War. . .so help ME. . .

55 Land Shark  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:16:51am

Carter's ignorance of the actual history is typical. The South seceded, Jimmah, and they had been planning for it for years as pressure against slavery grew in the North. The election of an abolitionist like Lincoln was the straw that broke the camel's back.

He really is a tool, isn't he?

56 UberInfidel67  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:16:57am

re: #52 tfc3rid
Can't imagine how I missed that. ///////////// and so forth and so on ad infinitum

57 dhg4  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:17:04am

A legitimate question for historians is ...

was he both the worst President and the worst ex-President?

58 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:17:10am

re: #39 jdog29

The REAL legitimate question is how many countries would the current United States be divided into if Jimmy had been the president instead of Lincoln?

There is an interesting "What If" documentary detailing American history if the South had won the war, C.S.A.: The Confederate States of America.

59 DisturbedEma  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:17:13am

re: #52 tfc3rid

Palestine, of course...

Ahh, yes, the country that never was. . .

60 Dianna  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:17:16am

re: #26 SaracensAtTheGates

Because the American Civil War was not about slavery, doyathink? What a dolt.

He firmly ignores that slavery was peripheral to Great Britain and pretty much every other Western nation where it was abolished. The economic and social system of the South was dependent upon slavery.

And, I always contend, the expansion of slavery.

61 MandyManners  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:17:20am

A while back someone posted a link to an article that discussed how Carter used the "n" word around Plains.

62 JohnAdams  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:17:30am

Can't this old coot just take up golf like everyone else?

63 jdog29  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:17:38am

I was reading it JOOOOOOEEEESSSSS as in "Eat at Joe's" and was wondering what in the world you were referencing.

64 Shug  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:17:48am

It's nice that Jimmy can take time out of his busy schedule of cozying up to terrorists despots and thugs, to point the un-Christian Behavior of Abraham Lincoln

65 flyovercountry  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:18:00am

This really is unique, when Reagan was diagnosed with Alzheimer's, his family showed him the love and respect to take care of him and not allow reporters to record his ramblings. Do Democrats love their family members less. I hope this man's blatant ignorance can be explained by Alzheimer's. Which leads to the question, why has his family allowed him to wander around without a keeper.

66 The_Vig  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:18:00am

The problem with history is the people that write it. In 100 years his book will probably be referenced in a textbook and will become common knowledge. Truth, once again, becomes history's bitch.

67 UberInfidel67  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:18:09am

re: #59 DisturbedEma

Ahh, yes, the country that never was. . .AND WILL BE ONCE AGAIN!

End the occupation!/////////

68 lawhawk  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:18:10am

Who the frak let him out of the Habitat for Humanity homebuilding program long enough to write yet another risible book that shows his utter disdain for history, or the consequences of actions (or the failure to take action as is particular to Carter's own experiences as President)?

69 [deleted]  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:18:14am
70 reine.de.tout  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:18:24am

OT, early in the thread, I know for an OT.

But I just came across this item, that SpaceJesus will like, I'm sure, given that he seems to think children should be forced to go to public schools to reduce the influence of their parents in their lives:
House Passes Hitler Youth Bill

71 Shug  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:18:35am

I miss Billy.

72 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:18:46am

re: #69 buzzsawmonkey

Wait until Carter decides to go back in time to fix it.

He'll give ol' Lincoln what for, you bet.

Lincoln could take him.

73 MandyManners  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:19:01am

What's next? A book about how un-Christian it was to fight against the Axis?

74 Dianna  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:19:10am

re: #37 Dave the.....

Conventional wisdom has always been that eventually slavery would have ended anyway in the south. But others say that no, it would have just moved into factories.

That was the fear of many working-class whites. Not simply the territorial expansion of slavery, but the social expansion to the factory, and its current employees. It would have been flatly disastrous, but it might have "made sense" to a broad stratum during a panic or crash.

75 Ann NY  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:19:12am

re: #5 reine.de.tout

Was Carter always this crazy, or has he gotten crazier with age?

He was always crazy, venal, charmless, pious, mean, cowardly, and creepy.

76 [deleted]  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:19:21am
77 Opinionated  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:19:43am
Carter writes that he finds the Lincoln writing “very troubling.”

I dare you to find Carter referring to any words or action or murders by Yasser Arafat as "very troubling".

78 [deleted]  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:19:44am
79 MandyManners  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:19:46am

re: #65 flyovercountry

This really is unique, when Reagan was diagnosed with Alzheimer's, his family showed him the love and respect to take care of him and not allow reporters to record his ramblings. Do Democrats love their family members less. I hope this man's blatant ignorance can be explained by Alzheimer's. Which leads to the question, why has his family allowed him to wander around without a keeper.

It's not Alzheimer's. He's just plain mean-spirited. Don't let that mush-mouth accent fool you.

80 DisturbedEma  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:20:08am

re: #57 dhg4

A legitimate question for historians is ...

was he both the worst President and the worst ex-President?


Without a doubt! He is, IMO, without a doubt. GWB in time, and as a democrat I cannot believe I am saying this, but he will have a legacy that will have future generations saying "look how they treated this honorable person" much as we now, collectively say we regret how we treated others who's works were not appreciated. . .

Clinton learned his lesson. . .but not before losing some of his cred. . .

81 tfc3rid  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:20:09am

re: #59 DisturbedEma

Ahh, yes, the country that never was. . .

And never will be?

82 cronus  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:20:14am

Jimmy Carter criticized Abraham Lincoln. Is it really necessary to ponder this further?

83 Dianna  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:20:20am

re: #31 UberInfidel67

He concludes: “A legitimate question for historians is how soon the blight of slavery would have been terminated peacefully in America, as in Great Britain and other civilized societies.”

I thought America led the charge to end slavery. Did GB do it before us? And WHAT other civilized societies?

Great Britain, France and certain other European nations.

84 JohnAdams  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:20:29am

re: #70 reine.de.tout

OT, early in the thread, I know for an OT.

But I just came across this item, that SpaceJesus will like, I'm sure, given that he seems to think children should be forced to go to public schools to reduce the influence of their parents in their lives:
House Passes Hitler Youth Bill

Believe there is something in there about uniforms.

85 brookly red  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:20:36am

re: #65 flyovercountry

This really is unique, when Reagan was diagnosed with Alzheimer's, his family showed him the love and respect to take care of him and not allow reporters to record his ramblings. Do Democrats love their family members less. I hope this man's blatant ignorance can be explained by Alzheimer's. Which leads to the question, why has his family allowed him to wander around without a keeper.

Well said.

86 MandyManners  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:20:49am

re: #78 Tokin42

Huh?

87 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:20:52am

Okay, here are some numbers for you:

Amount spent by the Union: $6,190,000,000 on the war,
$3,300,000,000 on pensions for the veterans.

There were four million slaves.

We could have bought each slave for about $1,550 dollars for what the civil war cost us. A little less than $2,400 if you count the pensions.

The South is even more hosed. Since they lost their slaves anyway, they could have let the slaves go for free for less.

AND all of those dead young men would have been financial contributors.

I believe ending slavery was the right thing to do, and I'm glad I live in a country without slavery, I just think we picked the wrong way to do it. I don't know about un-Christian, but definitely the bloodiest, most costly way.

88 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:21:04am

re: #34 BingoBunny

#3
Well, at least he's turned his attention away from the JOOOOOOOOOOS for a while.

/
You forget the Jews started the Civil War.. "un Christian".. hence JOOOs

Jews in the Civil War

89 MandyManners  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:21:10am

re: #78 Tokin42

Ah, what the heck.

*WHACK*

90 Sharmuta  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:21:11am

re: #45 Dianna

Oh, yes. But there are a series of conflicts that came to a head in the secession movement. It is more than possible to disagree on the importance and significance of each one. What one cannot ignore is that these issues could not (given the era and the passions of the participants) settled by discussion and compromise.

I have usually focused my attention in American History towards the Revolutionary era, because it just fascinates me. My knowledge of the Civil War era is not as strong, but I do understand that it was a number of issues coming to a head at the same time. But I agree with your assessment.

Next I wonder if carter would like distort the history of the crusades.

91 DisturbedEma  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:21:20am

re: #67 UberInfidel67

Ahh, yes, the country that never was. . .AND WILL BE ONCE AGAIN!

End the occupation!/////////

Yes, have them move back to Jordan and Syria. . .///

92 yma o hyd  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:21:21am

re: #31 UberInfidel67

He concludes: “A legitimate question for historians is how soon the blight of slavery would have been terminated peacefully in America, as in Great Britain and other civilized societies.”

I thought America led the charge to end slavery. Did GB do it before us? And WHAT other civilized societies?

Yep - we did indeed:
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

From that link:
'After the British ended their own slave trade, they pressed other nations to do the same. This reflected both a moral sense that the trade should be stopped everywhere and fear the British colonies would become uncompetitive. The British campaign against the slave trade by other nations was an unprecedented foreign policy effort. The United States abolished its African slave trade at the same time, though it did not attempt to abolish slavery in America.

Both the British and American laws were enacted in March 1807, the British law coming into force on May 1, 1807 and the American on January 1, 1808. Small trading nations that did not have a great deal to give up, such as Sweden, quickly followed suit, as did the Dutch, also by then a minor player. The Royal Navy declared that ships transporting slaves were the same as pirates, and so ships carrying slaves were subject to destruction and any men captured were potentially subject to execution. Enforcement of the US law was less effective, and the US government refused to comply with joint enforcement, partly because of concern over British press gangs.
Between 1808 and 1860, the West Africa Squadron seized approximately 1,600 slave ships and freed 150,000 Africans who were aboard.[2] Action was also taken against African leaders who refused to agree to British treaties to outlaw the trade, for example against "the usurping King of Lagos", deposed in 1851. Anti-slavery treaties were signed with over 50 African rulers.[3]'

Of course, we did have a Navy then - and Britannia did indeed rule the waves ...

93 GoIllini  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:21:21am

Well, as we all know, George W. Bush caused the Civil War (and, if one were to refer to it "southern style," it would be "The War of Northern Aggression")

94 tfc3rid  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:21:26am

re: #70 reine.de.tout

OT, early in the thread, I know for an OT.

But I just came across this item, that SpaceJesus will like, I'm sure, given that he seems to think children should be forced to go to public schools to reduce the influence of their parents in their lives:
House Passes Hitler Youth Bill

Holy shit! Did not realize that...

95 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:21:27am

re: #72 MrSilverDragon

Lincoln could take him.

Probably correct--he was big, and a fighter.

96 Irish Rose  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:21:28am
Jimmy Carter criticized Abraham Lincoln. Is it really necessary to ponder this further?

What say ye, Obama?

97 Abu Kuffar  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:21:31am

re: #73 MandyManners

There probably wouldn't be America if he had president instead of Wahington.

98 DisturbedEma  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:22:00am

re: #89 MandyManners

Ah, what the heck.

*WHACK*

YEAH!

99 Abu Kuffar  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:22:12am

re: #97 Abu Kuffar

PIMF Washington

100 dhg4  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:22:18am

re: #71 Shug

I miss Billy.

You mean Qadaffi's lobbyist?

I don't.

101 The_Vig  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:22:18am

Actually. On slavery. Britain Abolished slavery during the revolutionary war as a tactic against the 13 colonies.

102 Sharmuta  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:22:21am

re: #73 MandyManners

What's next? A book about how un-Christian it was to fight against the Axis?

buchanan already did that.

103 UberInfidel67  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:22:21am

re: #70 reine.de.tout
Reine...here is what I wrote to my reps through COngress.org:


Message sent to the following recipients:
Representative Altmire
Message text follows:

March 19, 2009

[recipient address was inserted here]


[recipient name was inserted here],

No no no! You got the title completely wrong. It would have to be
called Hitler Youth...for accuracy. Are you people nuts? Mandating
somone to volunteer isn't volunteering. Quit trying to twist the english
language....it's not confusing me.
----------------------------------------------------

Message sent to the following recipients:
Senator Casey
Senator Specter
Message text follows:

March 19, 2009

[recipient address was inserted here]


[recipient name was inserted here],

Hitler Youth ring a bell with any of you?

Sincerely

104 jdog29  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:22:45am

re: #47 so.cal.swede

Socialism IS the new slavery. The social worker is the current master of the families depending on the government benefits. The slaves live in housing projects while the masters (social or govt worker) drives a Mercedes and lives like a king.

105 Opinionated  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:22:58am

re: #5 reine.de.tout

Was Carter always this crazy, or has he gotten crazier with age?

If they don't put anything else on my tombstone put on it that I immediately recognized Carter for the POS he was/is the very first minute I saw him stepping off a plane carrying his suitbag over his shoulder.

106 DisturbedEma  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:22:58am

re: #96 Irish Rose

What say ye, Obama?


er uh er uh er uh ('prompter on break) er um ah er

107 lawhawk  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:23:04am

Let me get this straight - he's calling the Civil War un Christian, but by not fighting the war, you result in an even more unjust situation of permitting and condoning slavery in the South. How exactly is that not un-Christian (and immoral and unjust under most any legal theory)?

This is just another way of arguing the just war theory. And as always, Carter does it badly.

108 Sharmuta  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:23:06am

re: #78 Tokin42

Did you drop a 0 from the end of your nic?

109 Eowyn2  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:23:34am

re: #31 UberInfidel67

He concludes: “A legitimate question for historians is how soon the blight of slavery would have been terminated peacefully in America, as in Great Britain and other civilized societies.”

I thought America led the charge to end slavery. Did GB do it before us? And WHAT other civilized societies?

Great Britain had outlawed the purchase and selling of humans in GB. They also outlawed it in any of their countries in Africa. They sent their navy to blockade the African coasts and any British slaver had the slaves released. HOWEVER, their sugar islands still allowed the purchase of and selling of slaves so long as they weren't imported. Britain also allowed serfdom. If someone didn't want to pay their servants, they simply 'deducted' any broken, tarnished, torn, items from their meager pay. There is more than one definition of slave.

110 Earick  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:23:40am

If we survive the present nut ball, think of all the fun times we will have listening to him 'express himself' over the next forty years!
It'll make ya want ol'Jimmmey back!

Damn! I hate future flashbacks!

111 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:23:45am

re: #101 The_Vig


No, actually, not. See our dear Welsh lizard's post.

112 UberInfidel67  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:23:58am

re: #83 Dianna

Ah, I keep forgetting that we were all just a bunch of "colonials".

113 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:23:59am

re: #87 EmmmieG

Both sides in the conflict thought they were the direct heirs to the Founding Fathers and their ideals. The war was inevitable, slavery was just one of the catalysts.

114 so.cal.swede  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:24:03am

re: #87 EmmmieG

Okay, here are some numbers for you:

Amount spent by the Union: $6,190,000,000 on the war,
$3,300,000,000 on pensions for the veterans.

There were four million slaves.

We could have bought each slave for about $1,550 dollars for what the civil war cost us. A little less than $2,400 if you count the pensions.

The South is even more hosed. Since they lost their slaves anyway, they could have let the slaves go for free for less.

AND all of those dead young men would have been financial contributors.

I believe ending slavery was the right thing to do, and I'm glad I live in a country without slavery, I just think we picked the wrong way to do it. I don't know about un-Christian, but definitely the bloodiest, most costly way.

You fail at recognize that after selling the slaves to the north, the south would aquire new ones.

115 Erik The Red  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:24:11am

re: #87 EmmmieG

Okay, here are some numbers for you:

Amount spent by the Union: $6,190,000,000 on the war,
$3,300,000,000 on pensions for the veterans.

There were four million slaves.

We could have bought each slave for about $1,550 dollars for what the civil war cost us. A little less than $2,400 if you count the pensions.

The South is even more hosed. Since they lost their slaves anyway, they could have let the slaves go for free for less.

AND all of those dead young men would have been financial contributors.

I believe ending slavery was the right thing to do, and I'm glad I live in a country without slavery, I just think we picked the wrong way to do it. I don't know about un-Christian, but definitely the bloodiest, most costly way.

I don't think money came into it. It was a way of life/thinking/belief that had to be changed.

116 MandyManners  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:24:21am

Does anyone have the link to the note he wrote his sister in which he told her he shot her cat?

117 Ben Hur  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:24:41am

On Campus: The Pro-Palestinian's Real Agenda

Khaled Abu Toameh

During a recent visit to several university campuses in the U.S., I discovered that there is more sympathy for Hamas there than there is in Ramallah.

Listening to some students and professors on these campuses, for a moment I thought I was sitting opposite a Hamas spokesman or a would-be-suicide bomber.

I was told, for instance, that Israel has no right to exist, that Israel’s “apartheid system” is worse than the one that existed in South Africa and that Operation Cast Lead was launched only because Hamas was beginning to show signs that it was interested in making peace and not because of the rockets that the Islamic movement was launching at Israeli communities.

I was also told that top Fatah operative Marwan Barghouti, who is serving five life terms in prison for masterminding terror attacks against Israeli civilians, was thrown behind bars simply because he was trying to promote peace between Israelis and Palestinians.

Furthermore, I was told that all the talk about financial corruption in the Palestinian Authority was “Zionist propaganda” and that Yasser Arafat had done wonderful things for his people, including the establishment of schools, hospitals and universities.

The good news is that these remarks were made only by a minority of people on the campuses who describe themselves as “pro-Palestinian,” although the overwhelming majority of them are not Palestinians or even Arabs or Muslims.

The bad news is that these groups of hard-line activists/thugs are trying to intimidate anyone who dares to say something that they don’t like to hear.

When the self-designated “pro-Palestinian” lobbyists are unable to challenge the facts presented by a speaker, they resort to verbal abuse.

Great read.

Appropriate for a Jimmy thread.

118 Taqiyyotomist  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:24:50am

OT: (Old Thread - from the Alex Jones thread)
My belated comment, response to bloodnok's statement:

At some blogs no nut is too great. As long as there is a shred of Conservativism in their message or as long as they're going after Obama "they're on our side".


My response.

119 jcm  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:25:12am

Rabbit Bait thinks peanut farming would be more economical with slaves I suppose.

R.B. is an embarrassment to the human race.

120 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:25:23am

re: #90 Sharmuta

I have usually focused my attention in American History towards the Revolutionary era, because it just fascinates me. My knowledge of the Civil War era is not as strong, but I do understand that it was a number of issues coming to a head at the same time. But I agree with your assessment.

Next I wonder if carter would like distort the history of the crusades.

He will consider it a proper revision to present the Muslim viewpoint as the only correct one.

121 Silvergirl  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:25:34am

He's also channeling Ron Paul. Anti-Lincoln is in RP's blood.

122 Russkilitlover  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:25:35am

Wasn't he also cozying up to Obama in the WH last week? Would love to have been a fly on that wall.......wait, I'd be dead by now...nevermind.

123 MandyManners  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:26:00am
124 The_Vig  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:26:01am

re: #111 EmmmieG

Then the history channel is wrong, cause I heard it mentioned in a show about the revolution.

125 Dianna  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:26:07am

re: #90 Sharmuta

Next I wonder if carter would like distort the history of the crusades.

Why not? It's fun for the whole cranky crowd!

126 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:26:11am

re: #114 so.cal.swede

You fail at recognize that after selling the slaves to the north, the south would aquire new ones.

From where? Importing new slaves was already illegal. Only slaves already in America could be bought and sold.

127 Opinionated  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:26:12am

The Civil War was Christian but the Arab war against Israel is Christian?

He supports it.

128 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:26:13am

re: #103 UberInfidel67

Reine...here is what I wrote to my reps through COngress.org:

Message sent to the following recipients:
Representative Altmire
Message text follows:

March 19, 2009

[recipient address was inserted here]

[recipient name was inserted here],

No no no! You got the title completely wrong. It would have to be
called Hitler Youth...for accuracy. Are you people nuts? Mandating
somone to volunteer isn't volunteering. Quit trying to twist the english
language....it's not confusing me.
-------------------------------------------------- --

Message sent to the following recipients:
Senator Casey
Senator Specter
Message text follows:

March 19, 2009

[recipient address was inserted here]

[recipient name was inserted here],

Hitler Youth ring a bell with any of you?

Sincerely


Just like Flipping Matt Lauer talking with Rick Santelli, "They have asked us to sacrifice..."

Like hell they ASKED! I have NO CHOICE in the matter as a law abiding citizen to NOT follow the BS they are passing. They have the barrel of the gun of law at all of our heads. Yet these self righteous sanctimonious bastards weaponize their words. SPIT!

129 Opinionated  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:26:39am

re: #127 Opinionated

Corrected:

The Civil War was unChristian but the Arab war against Israel is Christian?

He supports it.

130 tfc3rid  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:26:40am

re: #123 MandyManners

Bestest buddies.

It's embarrasing that this man was elected President of the United States.

131 jcm  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:26:43am

re: #116 MandyManners

Does anyone have the link to the note he wrote his sister in which he told her he shot her cat?

Here you go.

5/13/90

To Sybil,

Lamentably, I killed your cat while trying just to sting it. It was crouched, as usual, under one of our bird feeders & I fired from some distance with bird shot. It may ease your grief somewhat to know that the cat was buried properly with a prayer & that I’ll be glad to get you another of your choice.

I called & came by your house several times. We will be in the Dominican Republic until Thursday. I’ll see you then.

Love, Jimmy

132 [deleted]  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:26:48am
133 eschew_obfuscation  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:26:55am

re: #70 reine.de.tout

OT, early in the thread, I know for an OT.

But I just came across this item, that SpaceJesus will like, I'm sure, given that he seems to think children should be forced to go to public schools to reduce the influence of their parents in their lives:
House Passes Hitler Youth Bill

At the risk of sounding hyperbolic, this is really scary.

134 Ann NY  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:27:05am

re: #37 Dave the.....

Conventional wisdom has always been that eventually slavery would have ended anyway in the south. But others say that no, it would have just moved into factories.

Taking the obvious lack of morality out of the topic; slavery was very inefficient. Forced labor does not make happy productive workers. It probably would have ended without the war, but when? Lincoln, according to his own words, came to the conclusion (the right one) that it was morally unacceptable for slavery to continue and expand.

135 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:27:05am

re: #78 Tokin42

I don't think he's a creationist.

136 yochanan  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:27:11am

Before the civil war we had two competing social and econ. systems there is no way that would have lasted. Industrial Capitalism vs agrarian plantation system. the differences between the two required totally different political desires such as free trade vs. protectionism, free labor vs chattel slavery.

Sometimes hind sight just means you are looking out of the single brown eye. Which is something dhimmi carter is well known for.

Not all southern states supported the war for example West Virginia and the Appalachian sections of most southern states. If union troops had been able to get to and hold eastern Tenn. there could easily have been a east Tenn to go with West Virginia.

And U.S. Grant being in Cairo, IL. kept that part of the state in the union as well.

137 Shug  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:27:21am

re: #123 MandyManners

Bestest buddies.

Wonder if Arafat shared any of his 8 year olds with the peanut farmer?

138 so.cal.swede  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:27:22am

re: #126 EmmmieG

From where? Importing new slaves was already illegal. Only slaves already in America could be bought and sold.

If there's a will there's a way. Are you telling me that all slave trade ended, ceased, gone, after the American Civil war? don't make me smirk. Plus that's just scratching the surface of what's wrong with your argument.

139 tfc3rid  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:27:44am

re: #133 eschew_obfuscation

At the risk of sounding hyperbolic, this is really scary.

I'm off to read the bill...

140 Charles Johnson  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:27:44am

re: #78 Tokin42

And with that, I bid you adieu.

141 gmsc  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:27:54am

This just in – rare footage of Jimmy Carter speaking about the South:
;)

142 UberInfidel67  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:27:57am

re: #109 Eowyn2

Slavery isn't something I have looked into very much. I guess I just got tired of being told how much we suck because we had slavery. People seem to forget that it DID NOT originate here in America. Thanks for the information.

143 gander  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:28:00am

Pretty rich coming from the guy who launched Robert Mugabe's career.

144 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:28:04am

re: #115 Erik The Red

I don't think money came into it. It was a way of life/thinking/belief that had to be changed.

I agree. I think that's why it went down that way.

145 Ann NY  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:28:05am

Carter also said the Revolutionary war was unnecessary.

146 Dianna  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:28:07am

re: #101 The_Vig

Flat out incorrect.

Check the Wiki, for a start.

147 capitalist piglet  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:28:26am

re: #94 tfc3rid

Holy shit! Did not realize that...

We became aware of Rahm's plan for this during the campaign and talked about it here. When word got out, there was some blowback, I think, because what Obama had on his website about it disappeared quickly.

Apparently the young people who objected ("What, me work?") believed it was a false alarm and voted for him anyway.

Surprise!

148 Irish Rose  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:28:26am

Good morning Charles, hows' the weather today?

149 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:28:42am

re: #39 jdog29

The REAL legitimate question is how many countries would the current United States be divided into if Jimmy had been the president instead of Lincoln?

Two - the part that merged with Canada and the part that Mexico conquered.

150 vagabond trader  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:29:05am

His follow-up will be based on the premise: If We had converted the Juice, WWII would have been avoided.

//

151 tfc3rid  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:29:11am

Here is the US Congress's official definition of Disadvantaged Youth...

) DISADVANTAGED YOUTH- The term ‘disadvantaged youth’ includes those youth who are economically disadvantaged and one or more of the following:

‘(A) Who are out-of-school youth, including out-of-school youth who are unemployed.

‘(B) Who are in or aging out of foster care.

‘(C) Who have limited English proficiency.

‘(D) Who are homeless or who have run away from home.

‘(E) Who are at-risk to leave school without a diploma.

‘(F) Who are former juvenile offenders or at risk of delinquency.

‘(G) Who are individuals with a disability.

152 Ben Hur  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:29:13am
Carter writes that he finds the Lincoln writing "very troubling." Continues Carter: "He ignores the fact that the tragic combat might have been avoided altogether, and that the leaders of both sides, overwhelmingly Christian, were violating a basic premise of their belief as followers of the Prince of Peace." He concludes: "A legitimate question for historians is how soon the blight of slavery would have been terminated peacefully in America, as in Great Britain and other civilized societies."

The blight of slavery was NOT started by Great Britain or America, nor was it ENDED by Great Britain or America.

And it won't be ended peacefully in those un-civilized societies that still practice slavery today. Those same un-civilized, un-Christian societies that Carter supports over liberal Judeo-Christian societies.

153 Abu Kuffar  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:29:38am

re: #70 reine.de.tout

Contact your senators, people before its too late. It can be stopped

154 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:29:39am

re: #138 so.cal.swede

If there's a will there's a way. Are you telling me that all slave trade ended, ceased, gone, after the American Civil war? don't make me smirk. Plus that's just scratching the surface of what's wrong with your argument.

Are you saying there were slaves in America (genuine slavery, not the de facto type) after the Civil War? Where?

155 gmsc  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:29:42am

re: #143 gander

Pretty rich coming from the guy who launched Robert Mugabe's career.

...as well as Khomeini's.

156 so.cal.swede  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:30:11am

re: #151 tfc3rid

Here is the US Congress's official definition of Disadvantaged Youth...

) DISADVANTAGED YOUTH- The term ‘disadvantaged youth’ includes those youth who are economically disadvantaged and one or more of the following:

‘(A) Who are out-of-school youth, including out-of-school youth who are unemployed.

‘(B) Who are in or aging out of foster care.

‘(C) Who have limited English proficiency.

‘(D) Who are homeless or who have run away from home.

‘(E) Who are at-risk to leave school without a diploma.

‘(F) Who are former juvenile offenders or at risk of delinquency.

‘(G) Who are individuals with a disability.

I think that just qualified 90% of america's youth ;-)

157 Dianna  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:30:33am

re: #112 UberInfidel67

Ah, I keep forgetting that we were all just a bunch of "colonials".

Not the point I wanted to make.

158 yma o hyd  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:30:37am

re: #131 jcm

Here you go.

5/13/90

To Sybil,

Lamentably, I killed your cat while trying just to sting it. It was crouched, as usual, under one of our bird feeders & I fired from some distance with bird shot. It may ease your grief somewhat to know that the cat was buried properly with a prayer & that I’ll be glad to get you another of your choice.

I called & came by your house several times. We will be in the Dominican Republic until Thursday. I’ll see you then.

Love, Jimmy


What a fucking, pitiless asshat!

To get a cat away from under a bird feeder, all you need is a large water pistol - no need to kill it. Using bird shot indicates intent to inflict bodily harm, even serious harm - and here, death.

And that asshat wants to 'preach' about 'unchristian' wars?
Gimme a break!

159 Ben Hur  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:31:12am

ANd another thing.

Yes the British outlawed the slave trade, but they CONTINUED TO BE THE LARGEST IMPORTERS OF SOUTHERN SLAVE COTTON UNTIL THE CIVIL WAR FORCED THE WORLD TO IMPORT COTTON FROM EGYPT.

As I see it, that helped continue the institution of slavery in the US until the war.

160 AMER1CAN  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:31:17am

The war was more about succession then slavery. But no one was going to kill their brother and neighbor over succession but they just might and did over slavery. I think this is where Lincoln was incredibly smart and was able to use slavery as a rally point to curb a bigger problem (the idea of succession and that the states were more powerful then fed. gov ).

I know that I just over simplified everything with what I just said, but I think some might understand what I am getting at.

161 UberInfidel67  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:31:29am

re: #128 Oh no...Sand People!
I also have a reply from Bob Casey where I told him I hoped his church fell in on him for supporting the money for overseas abortions. lol He tells me he is PRO-LIFE! One day they will come for me. I don't care. Shoot me....you can only kill me once.

162 Sharmuta  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:31:32am

re: #152 Ben Hur

The blight of slavery was NOT started by Great Britain or America, nor was it ENDED by Great Britain or America.

And it won't be ended peacefully in those un-civilized societies that still practice slavery today. Those same un-civilized, un-Christian societies that Carter supports over liberal Judeo-Christian societies.

Yes- the slave trade is alive and well.

163 DistantThunder  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:31:40am

How is defense of the innocent, by the oppressors anti-Christian?

164 albusteve  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:31:54am

BO takes another hit...a big one from ND

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

165 Silvergirl  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:32:28am

Jimmy Carter=Ron Paul

Even more surprising and dismaying to me is Congressman Paul's complete lack of understanding about Abraham Lincoln and the reasons for the Civil War. Paul stated in the interview "Six hundred thousand Americans died in a senseless civil war…. [President Abraham Lincoln] did this just to enhance and get rid of the original intent of the republic," Paul said. "Every other major country in the world got rid of slavery without a civil war. I mean, that doesn't sound too radical to me. That sounds like a pretty reasonable approach."

RP's Bizarre Opinion

166 jcm  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:32:29am

re: #162 Sharmuta

Yes- the slave trade is alive and well.

Practiced in the most part by Islamic countries.

167 so.cal.swede  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:32:43am

re: #154 EmmmieG

Are you saying there were slaves in America (genuine slavery, not the de facto type) after the Civil War? Where?

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

read and learn. But I'm starting to think that you have a very narrow definition of slavery. i.e. "black people put in irons and brought over from Africa".

168 JacksonTn  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:32:55am

re: #151 tfc3rid

Here is the US Congress's official definition of Disadvantaged Youth...

) DISADVANTAGED YOUTH- The term ‘disadvantaged youth’ includes those youth who are economically disadvantaged and one or more of the following:

‘(A) Who are out-of-school youth, including out-of-school youth who are unemployed.

‘(B) Who are in or aging out of foster care.

‘(C) Who have limited English proficiency.

‘(D) Who are homeless or who have run away from home.

‘(E) Who are at-risk to leave school without a diploma.

‘(F) Who are former juvenile offenders or at risk of delinquency.

‘(G) Who are individuals with a disability.

I am sorry but I cannot take this crap ... get up ... put one foot in front of the other ... stay off drugs ... don't shoot people ... there is nothing wrong with an honest days work ... don't compare your life with MTV Cribs ... all kids don't belong in college ... trade schools ... my head will explode soon ... I just know it ...

169 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:33:05am

re: #160 AMER1CAN

The southern states seceded for a lot of the same reasons the 13 colonies rebelled against King George and Parliament.

170 Wishing  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:33:06am

re: #131 jcm

Here you go.

5/13/90

To Sybil,

Lamentably, I killed your cat while trying just to sting it. It was crouched, as usual, under one of our bird feeders & I fired from some distance with bird shot. It may ease your grief somewhat to know that the cat was buried properly with a prayer & that I’ll be glad to get you another of your choice.

I called & came by your house several times. We will be in the Dominican Republic until Thursday. I’ll see you then.

Love, Jimmy

I mean cmon, he said a PRAYER...sheesh.

171 Sharmuta  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:33:11am

re: #166 jcm

Practiced in the most part by Islamic countries.

It's as close as Hispaniola.

172 DistantThunder  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:33:25am

re: #163 DistantThunder

How is defense of the innocent, by the oppressors anti-Christian?

Try again: How is defense of the innocents, from the oppressors, anti-Christian? You know what I mean..

173 Ben Hur  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:33:43am

I wonder how much this will strain Carter's relationship with Obama Lincoln?

174 So?  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:33:49am

could've, would've, should've

175 yma o hyd  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:34:09am

re: #159 Ben Hur

ANd another thing.

Yes the British outlawed the slave trade, but they CONTINUED TO BE THE LARGEST IMPORTERS OF SOUTHERN SLAVE COTTON UNTIL THE CIVIL WAR FORCED THE WORLD TO IMPORT COTTON FROM EGYPT.

As I see it, that helped continue the institution of slavery in the US until the war.

Yeah, well, can't run an Empire on lofty ideals alone ...

////

176 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:34:10am

I have the strange feeling that this is just a 'canary in the cave' moment for Slave Reparations.

177 gmsc  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:34:23am

Interesting online book:

Freedom In Mind

Asks a question: If slavery is so bad, why is slave labor so good? Discusses why the question is as unpopular as the answer. If freedom is in your heart, is it also in your mind?

178 tfc3rid  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:34:25am

Purpose of the Civillian Corps...

It is the purpose of this subtitle to authorize the operation of, and support for, residential and other service programs that combine the best practices of civilian service with the best aspects of military service, including leadership and team building, to meet national and community needs. Such needs to be met under such programs include those related to--
‘(1) natural and other disasters;
‘(2) infrastructure improvement;
‘(3) environmental stewardship and conservation;
‘(4) energy conservation;
‘(5) urban and rural development; and
‘(6) other unmet needs consistent with the purpose as described in this section.’.

179 JohnAdams  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:34:27am

re: #130 tfc3rid

It's embarrasing that this man was elected President of the United States.

Hey, man, it was the '70s...

180 jcm  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:35:02am

re: #163 DistantThunder

How is defense of the innocent, by the oppressors anti-Christian?

Rabbit Bait wouldn't know what was Christian if you forced him to read the Bible. He sold three entire nations into slavery. And condemned countless other people to remain in slavery because of his willingness to countenance evil.

181 Zimriel  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:35:17am

As for the Civil War and Christianity: it was an Islamic solution to a Christian problem. Jesus believed in the Kingdom of God and a coming messianic age in which no man would have lordship over any other man. Slavery is nothing more or less than the State writ small. By extension Jesus could not have condoned slavery.

Whether slavery is so bad as to demand a holy struggle to wipe it out is another matter. A Muslim would wholeheartedly agree that war is justified to root out offenses to God. Christians are supposed to be more quietistic.

182 Sharmuta  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:35:19am

A Crime So Monstrous: Face-to-Face with Modern-Day Slavery

I read the first chapter thanks to a link at Powerline. Blood chilling.

183 albusteve  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:35:24am

re: #179 JohnAdams

Hey, man, it was the '70s...

Watergate....

184 So?  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:35:35am

If Egyptians didn't use slaves, we wouldn't have had those damn pyramids to look at.

185 Dianna  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:35:38am

re: #145 Ann NY

Carter also said the Revolutionary war was unnecessary.

Did he? Do you have a link? Or were you just making a satirical joke? I can be really dense about satire.

186 jcm  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:35:38am

re: #171 Sharmuta

It's as close as Hispaniola.

It's south of the border, and comes across. Most in the form of sex slaves.

187 capitalist piglet  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:35:43am

re: #168 JacksonTn

I am sorry but I cannot take this crap ... get up ... put one foot in front of the other ... stay off drugs ... don't shoot people ... there is nothing wrong with an honest days work ... don't compare your life with MTV Cribs ... all kids don't belong in college ... trade schools ... my head will explode soon ... I just know it ...

Obama's gonna have his own gang!

188 subsailor68  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:35:44am

re: #116 MandyManners

Does anyone have the link to the note he wrote his sister in which he told her he shot her cat?

Here's a link from Hot Air (a blog I don't know much about).

Cat Letter

189 Taqiyyotomist  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:35:47am

re: #162 Sharmuta

The Arabs opened that particular Wal-Mart. England and the Colonies just shopped there, at the store which had been open for hundreds of years. Then we quit shopping there, but the store is still open, and doing business all over the world, stocking the shelves with black Africans, selling the stock to (primarily) other Arabs. But we're the bad guys, (and the Arab world is just being "cultural" which is just about the best thing a nation or people can be.)

That's about how I see it.

190 UberInfidel67  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:35:51am

re: #157 Dianna
That was how his "conclusion" sounded to me, that's all I meant.

191 brookly red  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:35:52am

re: #179 JohnAdams

Hey, man, it was the '70s...

/Oh, that man... my bad.

192 yochanan  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:36:02am

re: #58 FurryOldGuyJeans

if the C.S.A. had won instead of them having the whole place more than likely America would have become 3 or 4 countries with the possibilities of the North taking parts of Canada when it was still in its expansionist mode.

the C.S.A. would more than likely have expanded into parts of Mexico(France had gone into Mexico with the idea of supporting the C.S.A.), the U.S.A. into parts of English Canada and more than likely there would have been a west coast country.

193 Irish Rose  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:36:07am

There's just something about a Carter thread that compells me to go and do the laundry and dirty dishes until it passes.

BB in a bit.

194 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:36:07am

re: #165 Silvergirl

Heh.

195 eCurmudgeon  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:36:21am

re: #5 reine.de.tout

Was Carter always this crazy, or has he gotten crazier with age?

Or just not doing as good of a job of hiding it?

196 gander  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:36:22am

So what you're saying Jimmy, is...
American Civil war:BAD
Hamas Rockets:GOOD

197 AMER1CAN  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:36:31am

re: #169 FurryOldGuyJeans

The southern states seceded for a lot of the same reasons the 13 colonies rebelled against King George and Parliament.

I am not debating the reasons. Maybe they were completely agreeable reasons. My point is that the fed gov. was not going to allow a break away republic to form. Maybe King George didn't care, but Lincoln would have none of the idea.

198 So?  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:36:46am

re: #196 gander

So what you're saying Jimmy, is...
American Civil war:BAD
Hamas Rockets:GOOD

EXCELLENT!

199 JohnAdams  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:36:49am

re: #132 buzzsawmonkey

Won't be brownshirts, though. Something creepy like a yellow beret or red kerchief around the neck.

200 DisturbedEma  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:36:53am

re: #196 gander

So what you're saying Jimmy, is...
American Civil war:BAD
Hamas Rockets:GOOD

very precise. . .

201 Ben Hur  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:36:54am

re: #54 DisturbedEma

If he says that Jews caused the Civil War. . .so help ME. . .

Had big roles on both sides.

202 chicagodudewhotrades  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:37:17am

re: #73 MandyManners


Pat Buchanan will probably write that one.....

203 Sharmuta  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:37:17am

re: #189 Taqiyyotomist

A lot of the slave trade is in Asia now.

204 Shug  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:37:18am

re: #151 tfc3rid

Here is the US Congress's official definition of Disadvantaged Youth...

) DISADVANTAGED YOUTH- The term ‘disadvantaged youth’ includes those youth who are economically disadvantaged and one or more of the following:

‘(A) Who are out-of-school youth, including out-of-school youth who are unemployed.

‘(B) Who are in or aging out of foster care.

‘(C) Who have limited English proficiency.

‘(D) Who are homeless or who have run away from home.

‘(E) Who are at-risk to leave school without a diploma.

‘(F) Who are former juvenile offenders or at risk of delinquency.

‘(G) Who are individuals with a disability.


A: Join the Army.
B. Be grateful to the people who raised you and cared for you.
C. Learn English or go back to wherever they speak your language
D.Join the Army. They will give you a food, a roof over your head , a bed and skills
E. Pull up your baggy pants. Leave the cell phone at home and open a book and read it.
F. Join the Army.
G. Do your best. Maximize the skills that you do have.

too many friggen excuses for failure these days

205 [deleted]  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:37:19am
206 Sharmuta  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:37:46am

re: #202 chicagodudewhotrades

Pat Buchanan will probably write that one.....

He already did.

207 eCurmudgeon  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:37:58am

re: #13 EmmmieG

There are rabbits on golf courses, potentially.

Cleaning Coke Zero out of my laptop keyboard after that...

208 DisturbedEma  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:38:00am

re: #201 Ben Hur

Had big roles on both sides.

In choosing a side. .sure, Jews fought on both sides,a nd Jews served in the CSA at pretty high levels. . .but started it? Nyt!

209 reine.de.tout  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:38:28am

re: #133 eschew_obfuscation

At the risk of sounding hyperbolic, this is really scary.

Yes, it really is scary.
My daughter's school, like most of the other schools in our area, has a "service hour" requirement. Students are supposed to get so many "service hours" each semester, and only certain approved activities "count".
A student who does not get the "service hours" has his or her religion grade lowered by one letter.

Well, I've told her to get them if she can, but if she can't, we're OK with that too.

Our family's "community service" does not necessarily involve the activities the school has decided are important. We have a different take on what's important. For instance, we spend a great deal of time providing assistance to an elderly neighbor of ours, who has 4 acres of yard to take care of which is beyond her ability to do. She loves her yard and gardens, and likes to sit outside. If she had no help, these would be overgrown and/or she would have to sell her property. However, what we do for her does not "count" as "service hours" under the school's program, and I am completely put out by that.

It seems to me that we, the parents of our daughter, by our example as well as by requiring assistance from her, should have more say in the types of "community service" we choose to emphasize. It irks me no end that the school requires "service hours" from students for a range of activities chosen by the school. This is beyond what the school's mandate is (or should be) which is to educate my daughter.

210 Zimriel  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:38:39am

For Aristotle, slavery = despotism. You work for your master; your master gives you room, board, and healthcare; your master is sovereign and therefore gives you all of this just because he doesn't want the hassle of buying a new slave when you die.

Most Western nations are slave states, in that we are wards of the government who take free health care etc on the condition that we offer a proportion of our earnings to the state. So we haven't got a problem with slavery, except for not liking the word "slavery".

Of course, you couldn't vote against your master if you were a slave. We can... assuming that our votes aren't cancelled out by the votes of our master's friends and hired overseers.

211 So?  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:38:41am

What? The Jews didn't start the Civil War? I better stop listening to that talk show. You know who you are?

212 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:39:01am

re: #167 so.cal.swede

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

read and learn. But I'm starting to think that you have a very narrow definition of slavery. i.e. "black people put in irons and brought over from Africa".

No, I don't. That was what I meant by "de facto" slavery. Share cropping and the KKK wasn't much of a step up. Factory towns with the company store was often an oppressive way of life. The Chinese working on the railway weren't beacons of liberty. You know, and I know, the examples of unfairness in economic situations can go on and on.

I was talking about legalized slavery, and the war that was fought specifically over that type of slavery. It cost a lot of money and blood.

213 DisturbedEma  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:39:14am

Off for more McWork. . .sigh, drive thru again I'll bet. . . beats the grill, but STILL so not in the mood to deal with people today. . .

214 yma o hyd  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:39:19am

re: #178 tfc3rid

Purpose of the Civillian Corps...

It is the purpose of this subtitle to authorize the operation of, and support for, residential and other service programs that combine the best practices of civilian service with the best aspects of military service, including leadership and team building, to meet national and community needs. Such needs to be met under such programs include those related to--
‘(1) natural and other disasters;
‘(2) infrastructure improvement;
‘(3) environmental stewardship and conservation;
‘(4) energy conservation;
‘(5) urban and rural development; and
‘(6) other unmet needs consistent with the purpose as described in this section.’.


Now I know what that reminds me of - its not so much the Hitler Youth, its the 'arbeitsdienst' - the higher age group, the one you can see in the Riefenstahl films of the Nuremberg Party festivals marching with spades over their shoulders instead of rifles ...

215 Dianna  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:39:28am

re: #160 AMER1CAN

As you can tell, I very strongly disagree. State's Rights and secession were based on the social and economic differences between the North and South, and their very serious conflicts regarding policies of importation, manufacture, and tax.

216 Desert Dog  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:39:37am

Another icon test

217 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:39:38am

re: #189 Taqiyyotomist

The Arabs opened that particular Wal-Mart. England and the Colonies just shopped there, at the store which had been open for hundreds of years. Then we quit shopping there, but the store is still open, and doing business all over the world, stocking the shelves with black Africans, selling the stock to (primarily) other Arabs. But we're the bad guys, (and the Arab world is just being "cultural" which is just about the best thing a nation or people can be.)

That's about how I see it.

But Farrakhan says it was the Jews, and the Arabs are nice guys.
[He's a slave to the Arabs; he just doesn't know it.]

218 UberInfidel67  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:39:42am

re: #199 JohnAdams I'm thinking plaid suits and little red bow ties. Oh and those dorky glasses too.

219 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:39:47am

re: #199 JohnAdams

Won't be brownshirts, though. Something creepy like a yellow beret or red kerchief around the neck.

My guess is a kaffiyah around the neck...new vogue terrorist chic...

220 Eowyn2  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:40:00am

re: #70 reine.de.tout

OT, early in the thread, I know for an OT.

But I just came across this item, that SpaceJesus will like, I'm sure, given that he seems to think children should be forced to go to public schools to reduce the influence of their parents in their lives:
House Passes Hitler Youth Bill

I am going to print a copy of the bill once all the other peons leave work tonight. This bill needs to be read from beginning to end.

221 dhg4  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:40:09am

re: #101 The_Vig

Actually. On slavery. Britain Abolished slavery during the revolutionary war as a tactic against the 13 colonies.

Did they abolish slavery, or did they offer to free slaves of the colonists?

222 godfrey  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:40:15am

Well, if we all sit on our hands and do nothing and let evil people slaughter us, we can be self-satisfied that we at least are "pure" and didn't compromise our principles. The rest of the world, of course, can go to hell.

Or, if we all walk up to our enemies, turn the other cheek, start talking to them reasonably, their hearts will be converted and we will all live happy peaceful lives -- until the bad guys decide to chop off our heads. But even then, we'll have lived happy peaceful lives up to a point, and didn't "become like our enemies."

What disgusts me about Carter's perspective is that it is insufferably cavalier with the lives of innocents.

There are brutal people in the world. They must be confronted, sometimes violently. It is pitiless and un-Christian to act otherwise.

223 [deleted]  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:40:21am
224 eCurmudgeon  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:40:43am

re: #73 MandyManners

What's next? A book about how un-Christian it was to fight against the Axis?

Didn't Pat Buchanan already write that one?

225 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:40:51am

re: #216 Desert Dog

Another icon test

It's one of those photos that make me wonder, "What happened next?"

226 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:40:59am

re: #199 JohnAdams

Won't be brownshirts, though. Something creepy like a yellow beret or red kerchief around the neck.

Or Mao jackets.

227 Taqiyyotomist  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:41:10am

re: #209 reine.de.tout

Yes, it really is scary.
My daughter's school, like most of the other schools in our area, has a "service hour" requirement. Students are supposed to get so many "service hours" each semester, and only certain approved activities "count".
A student who does not get the "service hours" has his or her religion grade lowered by one letter.

Wait. What? Religion grade? This "service learning" is related to Religion, how, exactly, in their school?

228 So?  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:41:18am

Almost every product we buy is made by slaves around the world. 15-hour work days with no pee breaks. I call that slavery. Oh, yeah, all for 50 cents a day.

229 tfc3rid  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:41:23am

re: #220 Eowyn2

I am going to print a copy of the bill once all the other peons leave work tonight. This bill needs to be read from beginning to end.

Yes it does... It's got a LOT in there... A LOT...

230 capitalist piglet  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:41:36am

re: #178 tfc3rid

Purpose of the Civillian Corps...

It is the purpose of this subtitle to authorize the operation of, and support for, residential and other service programs that combine the best practices of civilian service with the best aspects of military service, including leadership and team building, to meet national and community needs. Such needs to be met under such programs include those related to--
‘(1) natural and other disasters;
‘(2) infrastructure improvement;
‘(3) environmental stewardship and conservation;
‘(4) energy conservation;
‘(5) urban and rural development; and
‘(6) other unmet needs consistent with the purpose as described in this section.’.

Number six is the wild card. It can mean anything they want it to.

When this idea was taken down from their website overnight during the campaign, it looked like maybe they had gotten the message that it was a really bad idea...but (typically), their crazy idea never really went away. It was just hidden for a while.

Then its ugly, bony hand emerges from the dirt and grabs your ankle.

231 Dianna  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:41:53am

re: #176 Oh no...Sand People!

I have the strange feeling that this is just a 'canary in the cave' moment for Slave Reparations.

I won't pay.

232 Desert Dog  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:41:59am

Jimmah is just trying to secure his place as worst President ever. He sees Obama screwing up and is just reminding everyone that he was even worse.

233 jcm  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:42:01am

re: #209 reine.de.tout

Combine the mandatory volunteerism with this......

Organizing for America’s training program

Obama wants you to pledge loyality to him......

But the mission here seems very, very strange, and not in line with traditional politicking at all. The creepy, ubiquitous Obama logo on their material gives the game away. They’re not supporting the economic policies, which by the way have yet to be fully explained. How can they encourage people to support Obama’s economic policies when even the Obama administration has trouble articulating them and providing details? And even if they could, the omnibus budget bill and Porkulus have already passed Congress and been signed into law. So why do they need a door-to-door campaign?

How soon will the "volunteers" be asked pledge to Obama?

234 vagabond trader  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:42:10am

re: #209 reine.de.tout

It's all about power and control reine, nothing to do with charity or good works.

235 acwgusa  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:42:21am

Jimmy's been whacked repeatedly by the senility stick, I see.

236 Desert Dog  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:42:31am

re: #225 wrenchwench

It's one of those photos that make me wonder, "What happened next?"

My guess is the dog has a snack

237 Ben Hur  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:42:47am

re: #175 yma o hyd

Yeah, well, can't run an Empire on lofty ideals alone ...

////


That's right.

Ended the slave trade, but went and enslaved them all in their own countries through colonialism.

238 redstateredneck  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:42:48am

Why isn't Jimmy resting comfortably in some nice old folk's home?

239 godfrey  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:43:05am

Lizards, there is a new generation of people with Ph.D.'s in "Peace Studies" who make the same assumptions Carter does. They believe (and click their heels together while repeating it to themselves) that if they just talk and talk and talk and talk and talk, everything will be alright.

Of course, these are the same people working toward World Government with supranational, omnicompetent judicial, legislative, and executive power. They talk pacifism, but they are all about taking control by pure, naked force.

It's only your control (i.e. liberty) they worry about.

240 [deleted]  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:43:08am
241 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:43:12am

re: #231 Dianna

I won't pay.

The religion of liberal guilt doesn't phase me either. No guilt, no liberal power. Game. Set. Match.

242 Ann NY  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:43:30am

re: #185 Dianna

Did he? Do you have a link? Or were you just making a satirical joke? I can be really dense about satire.

No problem Dianna, I wouldn't believe that a former POTUS would say something that stupid without a link either. Since I read it here, I'll link it:

Your text to link...

243 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:43:35am

re: #192 yochanan

I disagreed with large chunks of the documentary, but I found it worthwhile in provoking thought, and entertaining.

The actual what-if results will endlessly be debated and argued over.

244 MandyManners  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:43:43am

re: #131 jcm

Here you go.

5/13/90

To Sybil,

Lamentably, I killed your cat while trying just to sting it. It was crouched, as usual, under one of our bird feeders & I fired from some distance with bird shot. It may ease your grief somewhat to know that the cat was buried properly with a prayer & that I’ll be glad to get you another of your choice.

I called & came by your house several times. We will be in the Dominican Republic until Thursday. I’ll see you then.

Love, Jimmy

Fucking sociopath.

245 yma o hyd  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:43:47am

re: #216 Desert Dog

Another icon test

Awww - adorable!

(Did the lizard survive the encounter?)

246 reine.de.tout  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:43:51am

re: #227 Taqiyyotomist

Wait. What? Religion grade? This "service learning" is related to Religion, how, exactly, in their school?

Not sure, to tell you the truth.
Selflessness, maybe, giving of oneself.
As long as it's to a school-approved activity or institution.

This "Hitler Youth Bill" will take the school program and make it bigger and even more awful, imo. In this mandatory volunteer program - what is it the kids will be required to do? How will this fit with parents' ideas about what is or is not appropriate to spend time on?

247 Dianna  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:43:53am

re: #184 So?

If Egyptians didn't use slaves, we wouldn't have had those damn pyramids to look at.

Not necessarily.

248 Zimriel  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:43:54am

Ire: #205 buzzsawmonkey

(though some might argue, with justice, that the economic peonage which replaced it in some areas, at least after Reconstruction, was virtually indistinguishable).

I'd argue that the peonage, and the KKK's reign of terror which brought it on, was worse. Blacks fled to the North and out of the country in greater numbers during "Redemption" 1875-1921 than during slavery. At least under slavery masters had an economic stake in their charges. After Reconstruction, whites decided that blacks were a liability and a threat, and treated them like it.

249 WriterMom  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:44:35am

re: #152 Ben Hur

Racist!

250 Sharmuta  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:44:36am

re: #224 eCurmudgeon

Didn't Pat Buchanan already write that one?

Yes

251 jcm  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:44:44am

re: #211 So?

What? The Jews didn't start the Civil War? I better stop listening to that talk show. You know who you are?

The Juice start all wars so the Juicey Arms Merchants can get rich!

//////

252 reine.de.tout  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:44:45am

re: #234 vagabond trader

It's all about power and control reine, nothing to do with charity or good works.

yes, but but but - it sounds like it's a good thing!

253 WriterMom  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:45:10am

re: #239 godfrey

Pretty much anything with "Studies" attached to it is utter bullshit.

254 SDben5  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:45:12am

I don't recall that slavery was terminated peacefully in the colonies of Great Britain.

255 subsailor68  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:45:18am

Just a quick observation on this "mandatory volunteer" crap:

I deliver Meals on Wheels to older folks here in our community. Part of the benefit of my - strictly voluntary - participation is that it helps these great people stay in their homes.

You know what? I get a great deal of satisfaction from helping these people out, as best I can. It makes my day, and makes me feel like I'm contributing something of value.

Forcing me to do this would absolutely destroy that.

It's despicable that this administration would even consider something like this.

256 Erik The Red  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:45:22am

re: #247 Dianna

Not necessarily.

I thought aliens built the pyramids?

257 republic  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:45:24am

Typical leftist "unicorns in fields of cotton candy",

"Let's just talk to them, they'll unclench their fists"

Even though history, as long as man has been on earth, clearly shows that this leftist ideology has always failed, these kook leftists(D) continue to try and re-write history to somehow conform to their insane ideas.

Spit!

258 WriterMom  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:45:28am

re: #251 jcm

I resemble that remark!

259 outsidephilly  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:45:46am

re: #209 reine.de.tout


We dealt with that when my grandson submitted his 'community hours'.
The school did not 'suggest' the program he completed.
The program my grandson completed is as a Junior Fire Fighter, which, I might add, is an ongoing program for him.

260 redstateredneck  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:45:56am

re: #253 WriterMom

Pretty much anything with "Studies" attached to it is utter bullshit.


Ha! Women's Studies comes to mind. What a crock.

261 NYCHardhat  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:46:20am

I can't wait in 30 years time when Barack Obama is making stupid statements like this.

262 jcm  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:46:32am

re: #258 WriterMom

I resemble that remark!

WOW! Can I buy some arms?

263 eschew_obfuscation  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:46:32am

re: #209 reine.de.tout

Yes, it really is scary.
My daughter's school, like most of the other schools in our area, has a "service hour" requirement. Students are supposed to get so many "service hours" each semester, and only certain approved activities "count".
A student who does not get the "service hours" has his or her religion grade lowered by one letter.

Well, I've told her to get them if she can, but if she can't, we're OK with that too.

Our family's "community service" does not necessarily involve the activities the school has decided are important. We have a different take on what's important. For instance, we spend a great deal of time providing assistance to an elderly neighbor of ours, who has 4 acres of yard to take care of which is beyond her ability to do. She loves her yard and gardens, and likes to sit outside. If she had no help, these would be overgrown and/or she would have to sell her property. However, what we do for her does not "count" as "service hours" under the school's program, and I am completely put out by that.

It seems to me that we, the parents of our daughter, by our example as well as by requiring assistance from her, should have more say in the types of "community service" we choose to emphasize. It irks me no end that the school requires "service hours" from students for a range of activities chosen by the school. This is beyond what the school's mandate is (or should be) which is to educate my daughter.

Don't blame you for that! It would irk me as well. Bless you for helping out a neighbor like that though!

I think it's great if folks choose to help their community out, but individual liberty takes a beating when they have no choice. One other difference is that when there's a formal government program, people become dependent on it and see it as a right. When they know private individuals may stop helping them if they don't treat them well, they'll be a lot more self reliant when they're capable.

264 HelloDare  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:46:46am

What do you expect from a man who has lust in his farts.

265 jcm  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:46:57am

re: #260 redstateredneck

Ha! Women's Studies comes to mind. What a crock.

Isn't that Wymyn's Studies now?

266 jcm  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:46:59am

re: #211 So?

What? The Jews didn't start the Civil War? I better stop listening to that talk show. You know who you are?

The Juice start all wars so the Juicey Arms Merchants can get rich!

//////

267 AZDave  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:47:02am

re: #8 Opinionated

If you have the book, look in the index for me, on what page does he begin to blame Israel.

In the Preface.

268 Desert Dog  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:47:08am

re: #245 yma o hyd

Awww - adorable!

(Did the lizard survive the encounter?)

That's actually a pic i got offline. I wanted a Dog and a Lizard....that fit the bill perfectly. My dog, JD the Wonder Mutt, is doing just fine. He eats any lizard that comes within his range. Living in the desert, we gets loads of them too. Baby Geckos are the coolest. They are so small.

269 So?  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:47:11am

re: #230 capitalist piglet

Number six is the wild card. It can mean anything they want it to.

When this idea was taken down from their website overnight during the campaign, it looked like maybe they had gotten the message that it was a really bad idea...but (typically), their crazy idea never really went away. It was just hidden for a while.

Then its ugly, bony hand emerges from the dirt and grabs your ankle.

Obama declared this civil group would be just as powerful as the military? Michaell Savage has played the clip over and over and over.

270 Sharmuta  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:47:32am

Gang of Juvenile Dinosaurs Discovered

Three juvenile Triceratops, a species thought to be solitary, died together in a flood and now have been found in a 66 million-year-old bone bed in Montana, lending more evidence to the idea that teen dinosaurs were gregarious gangsters.

I bet they smoked in the boys room too.

271 brookly red  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:47:34am

re: #261 NYCHardhat

I can't wait in 30 years time when Barack Obama is making stupid statements like this.

/just as long as he is not still in charge...

272 Lizard by the Bay  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:47:37am

Carter's legacy as America's Dumbest ex-President is in no danger for at least the next 3 3/4 years.

273 Desert Dog  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:47:50am

re: #265 jcm

Isn't that Wymyn's Studies now?

I've been studying women my entire life and still cannot figure them out.

274 So?  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:48:02am

re: #251 jcm

The Juice start all wars so the Juicey Arms Merchants can get rich!

//////

...and that's how Juicy Fruit gum came into existence. Now I understand everything.

275 cpuller  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:48:06am

Might have already been said but if the slaves had been Jews, Jimmy would have probably came out full force on the side of slavery.

276 reine.de.tout  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:48:17am

re: #259 outsidephilly

We dealt with that when my grandson submitted his 'community hours'.
The school did not 'suggest' the program he completed.
The program my grandson completed is as a Junior Fire Fighter, which, I might add, is an ongoing program for him.

Well, that sounds like a great program.
I hope the school recognized it.

277 lostlakehiker  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:48:18am

The unchristian thing about the civil war was that the south started it, prolonged it, brought death to on the order of 1 million people by doing so, and their cause, far from being a just cause, was unconscionable.

This is not to damn all southern soldiers and generals. Some of them were indeed fighting for what they mistakenly but in good faith believed was necessary to defend "states rights". Others left the thinking to their superiors and just did their duty as it was explained to them. With a few atrocious exceptions, (and there were exceptions also on the northern side; there are exceptions in every war), they conducted their fight by honorable means.

The fight might indeed have been avoided altogether. The south could have stayed in the union, acquiesced in the limitation of slavery from the new territories and in a revisiting of the Dred Scott case, and, down the road, in a buyout of all slaves.

This would probably have come about within twenty years. Ten million slaves, enslaved for 20 years, and balanced against the lives of several hundred thousand soldiers, dead young instead of later. How to balance? That really IS a question for God, and Lincoln, seeing how things were unfolding, may well have had good reason to conclude that God had given us His answer.

Or you could turn it around. Our valiant Union soldiers had given God their answer. They gave their lives that others might be free.

And Jimmy Carter is gonna have some splainin to do when the time comes for him to give his Answer for this conduct.

278 Lee Coller  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:48:34am

re: #242 Ann NY

No problem Dianna, I wouldn't believe that a former POTUS would say something that stupid without a link either. Since I read it here, I'll link it:

Your text to link...

This is typical liberal mumbo-jumbo. They believe there's always a perfect solution to every problem, and if a problem is perfectly solved, its never the fault of the unreasonable party (King George, Criminal, Terrorist, etc.).

279 WriterMom  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:48:38am

HEY I HAVE A THEORY.

It's a real shame, really un-Christian that Jimmy Carter is addicted to Saudi Arabian oil money and payoffs from jihadi murderers. My theory is also that it's un-Christian for him to hate Jews and Israel and support the very people who want to kill us all and dance on our blood, slitting our throats and blowing up our children. How's that for a nice, suburban Jewish mother's theory on Jimmy Carter and his faux "Christian" positions. My theory further postulates that he should take a nice, heaping cup of STFU and shove himself up where the sun don't shine.

280 So?  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:48:41am

re: #262 jcm

WOW! Can I buy some arms?

only legs for sale!

281 reine.de.tout  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:48:45am

re: #263 eschew_obfuscation

Don't blame you for that! It would irk me as well. Bless you for helping out a neighbor like that though!

I think it's great if folks choose to help their community out, but individual liberty takes a beating when they have no choice. One other difference is that when there's a formal government program, people become dependent on it and see it as a right. When they know private individuals may stop helping them if they don't treat them well, they'll be a lot more self reliant when they're capable.

great points!

282 UberInfidel67  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:48:45am

re: #273 Desert Dog
....And you never will : )

283 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:48:59am

re: #176 Oh no...Sand People!

I have the strange feeling that this is just a 'canary in the cave' moment for Slave Reparations.

I'll say this about slavery reparations - they like to use Holocaust reparations as the example. OK, then they can have slavery reparations on the same terms.
Any living person who was a slave in the US can get reparations from the direct successors of any organization that had slaves.
The families of Holocaust survivors get nothing; neither should people who never had a family member enslaved in the US.

284 vagabond trader  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:49:04am

re: #261 NYCHardhat

Why wait, just listen in on his next appearance.

285 eschew_obfuscation  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:49:06am

re: #255 subsailor68

Just a quick observation on this "mandatory volunteer" crap:

I deliver Meals on Wheels to older folks here in our community. Part of the benefit of my - strictly voluntary - participation is that it helps these great people stay in their homes.

You know what? I get a great deal of satisfaction from helping these people out, as best I can. It makes my day, and makes me feel like I'm contributing something of value.

Forcing me to do this would absolutely destroy that.

It's despicable that this administration would even consider something like this.

A perfect example of the liberal mind not understanding what motivates people..... in other words, human nature.

286 AZDave  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:49:13am

re: #261 NYCHardhat

I can't wait in 30 years time when Barack Obama is making stupid statements like this.

Why wait 30 years? Who do you think writes Joe Biden's material?

287 WriterMom  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:49:24am

re: #260 redstateredneck

Peace studies, gay studies, WomYns studies, development studies...blah blah.

288 cpuller  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:49:24am

re: #261 NYCHardhat

I can't wait in 30 years time when Barack Obama is making stupid statements like this.

You don't have to wait that long. Just try and catch him speaking without a teleprompter.

289 godfrey  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:49:25am

You guys know about Jimmy Carter and The Elders, right? From their webpage:

We are moving to a global village and yet we don't have our global elders.

So they have appointed themselves, naturally.

LMAO

For this alone, these clowns deserve pitch and feathers, all of them.

290 capitalist piglet  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:49:26am

re: #220 Eowyn2

I am going to print a copy of the bill once all the other peons leave work tonight. This bill needs to be read from beginning to end.

We need to scream about this loudly. It seems as though they're trying to their stealth thing, since it's not being talked about much in the news.

Parents won't like this, and neither will kids...and that includes people who voted for him.

291 outsidephilly  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:49:27am

re: #276 reine.de.tout

Well, that sounds like a great program.
I hope the school recognized it.


No, the school did NOT recognize it. The school did not consider it 'religious based'

292 Erik The Red  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:49:28am

re: #273 Desert Dog

I've been studying women my entire life and still cannot figure them out.

I will go to mt grave utterly bewildered and confused.

293 Desert Dog  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:49:30am

re: #282 UberInfidel67

....And you never will : )

I will still continue my "studies" though ;-)

294 republic  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:49:32am
If you want peace, prepare for war
295 So?  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:49:34am

re: #256 Erik The Red

I thought aliens built the pyramids?

slave aliens

296 HelloDare  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:49:39am

re: #264 HelloDare

What do you expect from a man who has lust in his farts.

Oops, sorry.

Jimmy Carter The Playboy Interview - Excerpt

November 1976


Because I'm just human and I'm tempted and Christ set some almost impossible standards for us. The Bible says, "Thou shalt not commit adultery." Christ said, I tell you that anyone who looks on a woman with lust has in his heart already committed adultery. I've looked on a lot of women with lust. I've committed adultery in my heart many times.... This is something that God recognizes, that I will do and have done, and God forgives me for it. But that doesn't mean that I condemn someone who not only looks on a woman with lust but who leaves his wife and shacks up with somebody out of wedlock. Christ says, don't consider yourself better than someone else because one guy screws a whole bunch of women while the other guy is loyal to his wife. The guy who's loyal to his wife ought not to be condescending or proud because of the relative degree of sinfulness.

297 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:49:58am

re: #270 Sharmuta

Did they also steal the hubcaps from the Flint-mobile? ;)

298 Lizard by the Bay  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:50:01am

re: #275 cpuller

Might have already been said but if the slaves had been Jews, Jimmy would have probably came out full force on the side of slavery.

Carter already felt that way about blacks. Make no mistake, in his heart Carter was a "Southern Democrat "in every sense that means. He was just being pragmatic and loyal to the party that kept him (however briefly) in power.

299 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:50:06am

re: #236 Desert Dog

My guess is the dog has a snack

Noooooooooooooooooooooooo!

300 Ben Hur  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:50:17am

re: #249 WriterMom

Racist!


SILENCE NEWBIE!

301 redstateredneck  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:50:20am

re: #287 WriterMom

Peace studies, gay studies, WomYns studies, development studies...blah blah.

Yep, total crap, all of 'em!

302 JacksonTn  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:50:24am

re: #217 Kosh's Shadow

But Farrakhan says it was the Jews, and the Arabs are nice guys.
[He's a slave to the Arabs; he just doesn't know it.]

Kosh ... you are so right about that ... I have been thinking that for the longest time ... little does he know they probably do not consider him a muslim at all and would love to cut his head off ... I watched a video of him on youtube once and Calypso Louie said .... he would walk over an Arab muslim to help out a brother (meaning a fellow black man) ... that right there would get his head cut off ... I despise the man and all he stands for ...

303 reine.de.tout  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:50:31am

re: #291 outsidephilly

No, the school did NOT recognize it. The school did not consider it 'religious based'

Well, hell.
then you have the exact same problem I'm facing.
I have decided a letter grade reduction is OK by me in this case.

304 Dianna  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:50:44am

re: #242 Ann NY

Thank you!

305 WriterMom  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:50:53am

re: #300 Ben Hur

I'M IN, I'M FINALLY IN!

306 yochanan  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:50:56am

re: #208 DisturbedEma

In choosing a side. .sure, Jews fought on both sides,a nd Jews served in the CSA at pretty high levels. . .but started it? Nyt!

The vast majority of American Jews did not come to America until after 1880(and most moved to northern urban cities), that being said In some ways Jews were freer in the C.S.A. than in the U.S.A. at the time note U.S. GRANT'S desire to expel Jews from parts of the south and border states, and that the third most important political figure in the C.S.A. was Jewish only Rob't E. Lee and the President of the C.S.A. were more important than Mr. Benjamen.

307 AZDave  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:51:05am

re: #273 Desert Dog

I've been studying women my entire life and still cannot figure them out.

And we never will!

308 Occasional Reader  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:51:06am

re: #230 capitalist piglet

but (typically), their crazy idea never really went away. It was just hidden for a while.

Then its ugly, bony hand emerges from the dirt and grabs your ankle.

The thing is, Obama couldn't just will into being a "civilian security force that's as strong as the military" overnight, even if he wanted to.

This will never happen, folks. I really wish conservatives would drop this talking point.

309 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:51:06am

re: #272 Lizard by the Bay

Carter's legacy as America's Dumbest ex-President is in no danger for at least the next 3 3/4 years.

Even Clinton has learned from his Foot In Mouth moments.

310 UberInfidel67  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:51:07am

re: #293 Desert Dog
You are TRULY a great American ; ) lol

311 Taqiyyotomist  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:51:15am

What's despicable is that we've forgotten to teach our kids about Hitler Jugend and the events that led to the Shoah. Despicable is that we've tolerated the watering-down, mixing up, rewriting, and even Stalinist erasure of history in our schools. Despicable is we can't even teach our kids about Israel in schools, since the most accurate history book ever written for a nation of people in that time period is also a religous book, and we've, despicably, decided that we, out of some twisted sense of fairness to all the religions of the world, must never teach that ANYTHING AT ALL in that book ever happened. There was no David. There were no Maccabeans. Palestine existed for all time then Jews came in the 40's and stole it all from them.

Screw our schools. They've screwed us. Perhaps irrevocably.

312 capitalist piglet  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:51:28am

re: #279 WriterMom

BRAVO. A thousand updings, if I could.

313 funky chicken  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:51:39am

He sounds like Pat Buchanan.

Holy cow.

314 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:51:51am

re: #255 subsailor68

Just a quick observation on this "mandatory volunteer" crap:

I deliver Meals on Wheels to older folks here in our community. Part of the benefit of my - strictly voluntary - participation is that it helps these great people stay in their homes.

You know what? I get a great deal of satisfaction from helping these people out, as best I can. It makes my day, and makes me feel like I'm contributing something of value.

Forcing me to do this would absolutely destroy that.

It's despicable that this administration would even consider something like this.

Akin to Warren Buffet crying he doesn't pay enough in taxes...no one is stopping him from paying more. That principle gets lost with the left...

315 eschew_obfuscation  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:51:53am

re: #287 WriterMom

Peace studies, gay studies, WomYns studies, development studies...blah blah.


heh .... you forgot to say "studies" on that last one ;P

316 Ojoe  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:52:02am

Big evil requires force to get rid of it, and to keep its seeds under control, Mr. Carter.

Slavery was growing into the territories, and it would not give up without a fight.

If Lincoln and the brave Union soldier boys had not saved the Union, the USA would not have been there to stop Hitler; only 80 years separate the two contests.

And it is good and evil in our day too; and you, sir, hesitated to use the force you should have used during the Iranian hostage crisis, and fundamentalist islam metastasized as a result.

Go away sir, with your stupid writings; if too many people read them they will result in real injuries and deaths.

317 Taqiyyotomist  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:52:13am

re: #279 WriterMom

I couldn't have said it better myself.

318 MandyManners  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:52:20am

Over my cold, dead body will The Kid be forced to serve FCBBHO.

319 jcm  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:52:33am

re: #296 HelloDare

Lefties love the part about "He who is without sin cast the first stone," I mean they'll use that justify anything and attempt to negate criticism of it by use the Bible.

They wholly ignore what happened next.....

"Go and sin no more."

320 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:52:33am

re: #289 godfrey

You guys know about Jimmy Carter and The Elders, right? From their webpage:

So they have appointed themselves, naturally.

LMAO

For this alone, these clowns deserve pitch and feathers, all of them.

What? I thought they believed in the Elders of Zion?

321 Occasional Reader  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:52:40am

re: #279 WriterMom

Yo WriterMom!

I admit that I am completely ignorant about the history of slavery (if any) in Canada.

Did the Peculiar Institution ever exist up yonder? (I mean, other than as practiced between and among indigenous people.) If so, how/when did it end?

322 WriterMom  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:52:40am

re: #315 eschew_obfuscation

They are all "Blah Blah Studies". LOL.

323 The_Vig  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:52:40am

I am getting to the point where I just don't believe history anymore. The more history that I study and learn the more I feel that most historians are lying to me. It's pretty sad really.

324 [deleted]  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:52:46am
325 Ann NY  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:52:49am

re: #278 Lee Coller

This is typical liberal mumbo-jumbo. They believe there's always a perfect solution to every problem, and if a problem is perfectly solved, its never the fault of the unreasonable party (King George, Criminal, Terrorist, etc.).

Isn't Carter the epitome of liberal mumbo-jumbo? He's got a nasty side too.

326 outsidephilly  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:53:03am

re: #303 reine.de.tout

Well, hell.
then you have the exact same problem I'm facing.
I have decided a letter grade reduction is OK by me in this case.


As a matter of fact, this school was not in interested in the hours my grandson spends helping me teach in the Children Ministry at my church because it wasn't 'catholic'.

327 damnyanqui  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:53:08am

Jimmuh also assumes the preposterous positon that conflict is somehow "un-Christian."
Is it?
Well let's check
in...
oh...
The Bible!
Christ himself says

"I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me."


In other words: If you stand up for what's right, you are going to have conflict on your hands. And if you're not willing to stand up and face that, then you're not a Christian yourself.
War to end a monstrous evil "un-Christian?" Not just a stupid notion but an un-Christian one.

328 Wishing  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:53:23am

re: #246 reine.de.tout

Not sure, to tell you the truth.
Selflessness, maybe, giving of oneself.
As long as it's to a school-approved activity or institution.

This "Hitler Youth Bill" will take the school program and make it bigger and even more awful, imo. In this mandatory volunteer program - what is it the kids will be required to do? How will this fit with parents' ideas about what is or is not appropriate to spend time on?

Now this is not a public school, correct?

329 Dianna  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:53:26am

re: #256 Erik The Red

I thought aliens built the pyramids?

No, but Egyptologists have some lively debates about who built the various monuments and how.

330 [deleted]  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:53:36am
331 Erik The Red  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:53:37am

re: #318 MandyManners

Over my cold, dead body will The Kid be forced to serve FCBBHO.

Private school 2M.

332 outsidephilly  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:53:40am

re: #305 WriterMom

I'M IN, I'M FINALLY IN!

WELCOME - we've been waiting for you!

333 Eowyn2  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:53:41am

re: #114 so.cal.swede

You fail at recognize that after selling the slaves to the north, the south would aquire new ones.

so obvious.
not to mention, what was the north going to do with all of the slaves it bought?

Scenario: Europeans fleeing Europe by the boatload for a piece of a dream, working 16 hour days in factories for pennies. Add a million freed slaves to the jumble and there would be no economy. This isn't about the slaves who made their way north and found work, they would have been forced to ride away from the homes that most of them had been born in, in totem, and dumped (literally) on the northerners who couldn't handle the influx of europeans without graft and corruption becoming the norm.

334 AMER1CAN  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:53:48am

re: #215 Dianna

As you can tell, I very strongly disagree. State's Rights and secession were based on the social and economic differences between the North and South, and their very serious conflicts regarding policies of importation, manufacture, and tax.

Disagreed with me or with states rights vs. fed gov? So you agreed with me or not? I guess I'm confused because you dinged it down. Seems you are agreeing with what I said from your response, but disagree with the event? Huh?

335 godfrey  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:53:53am

Jimmy Carter shot a cat.

336 reine.de.tout  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:53:55am

re: #306 yochanan

The vast majority of American Jews did not come to America until after 1880(and most moved to northern urban cities), that being said In some ways Jews were freer in the C.S.A. than in the U.S.A. at the time note U.S. GRANT'S desire to expel Jews from parts of the south and border states, and that the third most important political figure in the C.S.A. was Jewish only Rob't E. Lee and the President of the C.S.A. were more important than Mr. Benjamen.

I just got this book, Shalom Ya'll, which is mostly photos, but some reminiscences also, about Jews in the South.

337 funky chicken  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:54:05am

re: #165 Silvergirl

Jimmy Carter=Ron Paul

RP's Bizarre Opinion

EEEEEEEKKK. The insane convergence.

338 Occasional Reader  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:54:07am

re: #316 Ojoe

If Lincoln and the brave Union soldier boys had not saved the Union, the USA would not have been there to stop Hitler; only 80 years separate the two contests.

And/or, quite likely that the Civil War would have merely been postponed, and fought, say, 40-50 years later, with machine guns and poison gas. Oh, joy.

339 Achilles Tang  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:54:24am

I'm far from knowledgeable on the civil war, beyond popular stories and movies, but it was always my impression that it was by no means simply about slavery.

340 The_Vig  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:54:30am

Some would say that the south fought the war to defend their tradition. Which is one of the reasons that I cringe when O'reily or anyone else calls themselves traditionalists.

341 Ann NY  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:54:31am

re: #304 Dianna

You're welcome!

342 yma o hyd  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:54:47am

re: #237 Ben Hur

That's right.

Ended the slave trade, but went and enslaved them all in their own countries through colonialism.

Colonialism isn't exactly an invention of the British - the Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch and French started much earlier down that road.

The 'enslavement' also, certainly in the British colonies, put an end to tribal warfare, installed the rule of law, and started schools and the beginnings of administrative infrastructures, from which the former British colonies still profit. The Royal Navy made an end with piracy - yeah, British colonialism was a truly bad thing.
Thats why those former colonies are still organised in what is known as 'Commonwealth'.

343 WriterMom  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:55:03am

re: #321 Occasional Reader

Canada does not have that same history of slavery, it was actually a haven for escaped slaves.

344 Ben Hur  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:55:06am

re: #308 Occasional Reader

The thing is, Obama couldn't just will into being a "civilian security force that's as strong as the military" overnight, even if he wanted to.

This will never happen, folks. I really wish conservatives would drop this talking point.

You sound like me before the election.

345 jcm  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:55:09am

re: #335 godfrey

Jimmy Carter shot a cat.

And ran from a rabbit......

346 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:55:14am

re: #302 JacksonTn

Kosh ... you are so right about that ... I have been thinking that for the longest time ... little does he know they probably do not consider him a muslim at all and would love to cut his head off ... I watched a video of him on youtube once and Calypso Louie said .... he would walk over an Arab muslim to help out a brother (meaning a fellow black man) ... that right there would get his head cut off ... I despise the man and all he stands for ...

As long as Farrahkan is useful to them, they'll let him keep his head.
If he ever woke up to what he was doing, though, they'd cut off something, although probably just his allowance.

347 NYCHardhat  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:55:15am

re: #339 Naso Tang

I'm far from knowledgeable on the civil war, beyond popular stories and movies, but it was always my impression that it was by no means simply about slavery.

To preserve the Union.

348 Sharmuta  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:55:41am

re: #323 The_Vig

I am getting to the point where I just don't believe history anymore. The more history that I study and learn the more I feel that most historians are lying to me. It's pretty sad really.

Well, that's a bit drastic. There are plenty of credible historians, but we should all be on the lookout for revisionism. A good way to check history books is to read the bibliographies to see who/what they sources are.

349 itellu3times  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:55:42am

OT: Cold fusion is back!

via drudge

We shouldn't be forcing neutrons to fuse, we should talk them out of their energy peacefully!
/jimmah the nukular scientist

350 redstateredneck  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:55:49am

re: #328 Wishing

Now this is not a public school, correct?

Our public school at one time (don't know if they still do) required service hours as part of the placement in advanced classes.

351 Erik The Red  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:56:06am

re: #345 jcm

And ran from a rabbit......

And was fucked by Arafat.

352 Taqiyyotomist  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:56:06am

re: #335 godfrey

Jimmy Carter shot a cat.

The very least of his evil acts. My uncle shot a cat. There were 40 or so being allowed to become vermin next door. I love cats, too. Pets. Not vermin. When the cute becomes vermin, they get shot.

Sounds like Jimmy shot a pet, though, not vermin. What a dick.

353 reine.de.tout  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:56:10am

re: #326 outsidephilly

As a matter of fact, this school was not in interested in the hours my grandson spends helping me teach in the Children Ministry at my church because it wasn't 'catholic'.

Well, you're making my point.
Parents should have influence and say-so in what the family's gift of time to others will be, and it should reflect what is important to that family.

Which is why this mandatory volunteering service hours DOES NOT BELONG AS PART OF A SCHOOL CURRICULUM.

Nor should there be any mandatory voluntary children's "corps" of any sort.

354 Ben Hur  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:56:19am

re: #342 yma o hyd

Colonialism isn't exactly an invention of the British - the Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch and French started much earlier down that road.

The 'enslavement' also, certainly in the British colonies, put an end to tribal warfare, installed the rule of law, and started schools and the beginnings of administrative infrastructures, from which the former British colonies still profit. The Royal Navy made an end with piracy - yeah, British colonialism was a truly bad thing.
Thats why those former colonies are still organised in what is known as 'Commonwealth'.


355 Eowyn2  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:56:22am

re: #229 tfc3rid

Yes it does... It's got a LOT in there... A LOT...

we already know how well the government reads what it has written.

356 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:56:22am

re: #60 Dianna

He firmly ignores that slavery was peripheral to Great Britain and pretty much every other Western nation where it was abolished. The economic and social system of the South was dependent upon slavery.

And, I always contend, the expansion of slavery.

Precisely. IIRC, there were no slaves (per se, though the Irish might say otherwise) present within the British Isles when GB abolished slavery.

357 Rexatosis  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:56:24am

Jimmy Carter is at best a naive fool, at worst....(out of respect for the office he once held I hold my "pen", I wish he would do the same.)

358 subsailor68  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:56:30am

re: #335 godfrey

Jimmy Carter shot a cat.

eieio.

With some buckshot here,
And some buckshot there,
Hear a shot, there a shot,
Everywhere a shot shot.
Jimmy Carter shot a cat.

eieio.

(As you can tell, I'm not a big fan of Carter.)

359 yochanan  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:56:32am

re: #309 FurryOldGuyJeans

Even Clinton has learned from his Foot In Mouth moments.

or other parts in mouth

ME BAD

360 Occasional Reader  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:56:33am

re: #255 subsailor68

You know what? I get a great deal of satisfaction from helping these people out, as best I can. It makes my day, and makes me feel like I'm contributing something of value.

Forcing me to do this would absolutely destroy that.

Not to worry! The government has Big Plans to force you to enjoy it, too.

/

361 funky chicken  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:56:51am

re: #130 tfc3rid

It's embarrasing that this man was elected President of the United States.

Carter's a whole lot less embarrassing than Obama.

362 Digital Display  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:56:52am

re: #305 WriterMom

I'M IN, I'M FINALLY IN!


You are the one we've been waiting for...

363 [deleted]  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:56:53am
364 Leonidas Hoplite  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:56:56am

re: #323 The_Vig

I am getting to the point where I just don't believe history anymore. The more history that I study and learn the more I feel that most historians are lying to me. It's pretty sad really.

Many put their ideology ahead of what they are studying, it is true.

365 SummerSong  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:57:02am

He concludes: “A legitimate question for historians is how soon the blight of slavery would have been terminated peacefully in America, as in Great Britain and other civilized societies.”

I sometimes wonder if Mr. I ♥ Pali's Carter knows what a civilized society is supposed to look like.....

366 The_Vig  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:57:08am

re: #348 Sharmuta

Well, that's a bit drastic. There are plenty of credible historians, but we should all be on the lookout for revisionism. A good way to check history books is to read the bibliographies to see who/what they sources are.

Hmmmm President of the United states vs. some guy I have never heard of. Most people will go with the President. And the public gets dumber.

367 Ojoe  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:57:14am

re: #338 Occasional Reader

Actually the Gatling Gun was patented in 1861. I'm not sure how much it was used in the Civil War.

368 KingKenrod  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:57:28am

re: #178 tfc3rid

Purpose of the Civillian Corps...

It is the purpose of this subtitle to authorize the operation of, and support for, residential and other service programs that combine the best practices of civilian service with the best aspects of military service, including leadership and team building, to meet national and community needs. Such needs to be met under such programs include those related to--
‘(1) natural and other disasters;
‘(2) infrastructure improvement;
‘(3) environmental stewardship and conservation;
‘(4) energy conservation;
‘(5) urban and rural development; and
‘(6) other unmet needs consistent with the purpose as described in this section.’.

Here's my updated list:

‘(1) Keeping unemployment figures artificially low;
‘(2) Providing a cheap labor force for the politically connected;
‘(3) Providing a fresh group of subjects for academic sociology experiments;
‘(4) Depressing the genuine urge for non-government volunteerism and philanthropy;
‘(5) shrinking the available pool of labor to inflate wages and to make menial jobs more available to union and immigrant groups.
‘(6) "community organizing".

369 Taqiyyotomist  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:57:28am

re: #344 Ben Hur

Don't worry, we'll have a funny and derisive name for them soon, the people who are stupid enough to believe this is a real problem.
///////

370 Occasional Reader  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:57:31am

re: #339 Naso Tang

I'm far from knowledgeable on the civil war, beyond popular stories and movies, but it was always my impression that it was by no means simply about slavery.

I done said it before, and I done... er, will do?... say it again:

Yes, the Civil War was about secession.

But secession was (principally) about slavery.

371 brookly red  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:57:43am

re: #335 godfrey

Jimmy Carter shot a cat.

do dah, do dah...

372 eschew_obfuscation  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:57:49am

re: #353 reine.de.tout

Well, you're making my point.
Parents should have influence and say-so in what the family's gift of time to others will be, and it should reflect what is important to that family.

Which is why this mandatory volunteering service hours DOES NOT BELONG AS PART OF A SCHOOL CURRICULUM.

Nor should there be any mandatory voluntary children's "corps" of any sort.

Is it ironic that we're discussing forced labor of children and slavery in the same thread?

373 reine.de.tout  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:57:52am

re: #328 Wishing

Now this is not a public school, correct?

No, it is not.
However, the public schools also all have some version of a "service hour" requirement.

374 WriterMom  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:58:08am
375 redstateredneck  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:58:26am

re: #336 reine.de.tout

I just got this book, Shalom Ya'll, which is mostly photos, but some reminiscences also, about Jews in the South.

There is a very old Jewish cemetery just outside of Summit, MS. Most of the deaths occurred during a yellow fever epidemic.

376 Achilles Tang  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:58:29am

re: #347 NYCHardhat

To preserve the Union.

Yes of course, but what was the reason some did not want that? It was not simply that they were told by some that they had to free the slaves, was it?

377 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:58:54am

re: #345 jcm

And ran from a rabbit......

Well, it had sharp, pointy, teeth.

378 yma o hyd  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:58:57am

re: #354 Ben Hur

Teeheehee!

Btw - anybody who gets hung up about the 'blasphemy' of 'The Life of Brian' hasn't understood the finer points about the hilarious piss-takes on all and any leftie fractional disputes in that fillum!

379 reine.de.tout  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:59:07am

re: #363 ploome hineni

don;t forget our favorite

MatzahBall Gumbo

LOL

YES!
And here it is - Matzoh Ball Gumbo.

380 Charles Johnson  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:59:08am

We sure do have a lot of people walking around with chips on their shoulders in here today.

381 jcm  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:59:35am

re: #339 Naso Tang

I'm far from knowledgeable on the civil war, beyond popular stories and movies, but it was always my impression that it was by no means simply about slavery.

It was about States Rights, vs. Federal Power. However THE RIGHT the south succeeded over was the right to own slaves. The precursor was the Missouri Compromise, which restricted new states from joining as slave states. The south saw that as an attempt to over whelm the power of Southern States in the congress.

382 Occasional Reader  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:59:36am

re: #367 Ojoe

Actually the Gatling Gun was patented in 1861. I'm not sure how much it was used in the Civil War.

It was, to some degree.

Of course, the Gatling Gun was not a "true" machinegun, as it was not truly self-loading.

383 brookly red  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:59:38am

re: #377 Kosh's Shadow

Well, it had sharp, pointy, teeth.

and he was out of bird shot.

384 Zimriel  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:59:40am

re: #277 lostlakehiker

The unchristian thing about the civil war was that the south started it, prolonged it, brought death to on the order of 1 million people by doing so, and their cause, far from being a just cause, was unconscionable.

Bingo. The South whined about it when New England wanted to secede over 1812. The South should have sucked it up that a Republican one, and seen to migrating their "peculiar institution" into a coalition of regulated welfare states.

385 CIA Reject  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:59:51am

Jimmy Carter is apparently laboring under the delusion that Christianity is for wimps.

Yet another reason why I dislike him ...

386 Zimriel  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:59:54am

one>won. pimf

387 jcm  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:59:55am

re: #351 Erik The Red

And was fucked by Arafat.

And blew Khomeini.

388 [deleted]  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:00:13pm
389 gmsc  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:00:19pm

re: #372 eschew_obfuscation

Is it ironic that we're discussing forced labor of children and slavery in the same thread?

No, it's not ironic.

IRONICALLY/COINCIDENTALLY

An event that is strikingly different from or the opposite of what one would have expected, usually producing a sense of incongruity, is ironic: “The sheriff proclaimed a zero-tolerance policy on drugs, but ironically flunked his own test.” Other striking comings-together of events lacking these qualities are merely coincidental: “the lovers leapt off the tower just as a hay wagon coincidentally happened to be passing below.”

Child labor is a particular type of slavery, so it's a natural offshoot.

390 NYCHardhat  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:00:31pm

re: #376 Naso Tang

Yes of course, but what was the reason some did not want that? It was not simply that they were told by some that they had to free the slaves, was it?

Slavery was the primary

391 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:00:38pm

I know I came late to this thread, but...

WHAT THE FUCK IS CRATER SMOKING!?! THAT IGNORANT, JEW-HATING, ANTI-SEMITIC, RACIST, BASTARD SON-OF-A-BITCH!

Fuck him and the jackass he rode to the White House on in 1976. What an asshole.

392 Land Shark  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:00:55pm

Like many people, I believed that the cause of the Civil War wasn't just slavery. However, years ago my friend who has a master's in American History had me read newspaper articles and books from the period preceding the war which highlighted the growing anti-slavery movement in the North and the growing resistance to ending slavery in the South. In the decade preceding the war many Southern politicians took steps to prepare for secession in case an abolitionist was elected President. What I read was eye opening, and it made me realize how important preserving slavery in the South was to their politicians and intellectuals. The whole thing about "states rights" from Confederate apologists was a red herring. The secession of the South was all about the "states rights" to preserve slavery.

393 Desert Dog  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:01:03pm

re: #364 Leonidas Hoplite

Many put their ideology ahead of what they are studying, it is true.

All of them do. That's why you need to read from both sides and from as close to primary sources as possible. History is written by the victors usually. But, it's good to read what the "losers" have to say about matters as well. That is what makes history so hard to put together. There are very liberal historians and very conservative historians, just as there are economists, pychologist, etc, etc that see things through different prisms.

394 Ben Hur  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:01:04pm

re: #374 WriterMom

Before your erection?

And I've got too much time on my hands!

395 Occasional Reader  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:01:15pm

re: #369 Taqiyyotomist

Don't worry, we'll have a funny and derisive name for them soon, the people who are stupid enough to believe this is a real problem.
///////

I've already got a selection of funny and derisive names all picked out for people who are positing that Obama is about to put armed thugs in the street who are "as strong as the military".

396 NYCHardhat  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:01:18pm

re: #388 buzzsawmonkey

Which means, of course, that the several States joining together to form the Union--not only the original 13, but those which joined subsequently--entered into a mutual contract together which, like most contracts, could not be unilaterally broken.

In other words, the Civil War was fought partly about slavery, but partly also to uphold the sanctity of the political contract which holds the nation together.

We fought a war--the most painful and costly war in our history--over contract law and the sanctity of our social contract. Think of that as we watch the Congress and the President gut that social contract up one side of the document and down the other.

Thank you. I'm not as articulate.

397 Occasional Reader  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:01:39pm

re: #380 Charles

We sure do have a lot of people walking around with chips on their shoulders in here today.

SAY THAT TO MY FACE! I DARE YOU!

/

398 reine.de.tout  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:01:40pm

re: #380 Charles

We sure do have a lot of people walking around with chips on their shoulders in here today.


Oh, lawdy, I see something like this I immediately think it's me.
Not me?

399 WriterMom  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:01:45pm

re: #391 Honorary Yooper

I'll have what you're having.

400 Taqiyyotomist  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:01:47pm

Charles? Whoever could you be referring to?

401 DaddyG  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:01:51pm

Some light reading for Jimmah... It can be read on the wall of the Lincoln Memorial (on your right if you are facing Lincoln)

"If we shall suppose that American slavery is one of those offenses which, in the providence of God, must needs come, but which, having continued through His appointed time, He now wills to remove, and that He gives to both North and South this terrible war as the woe due to those by whom the offense came, shall we discern therein any departure from those divine attributes which the believers in a living God always ascribe to Him? Fondly do we hope, fervently do we pray, that this mighty scourge of war may speedily pass away. Yet, if God wills that it continue until all the wealth piled by the bondsman's two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three thousand years ago, so still it must be said "the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether."

Quoted from:
-Abraham Lincoln
Second Inaugural Address
Saturday, March 4, 1865

402 RoughRider  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:02:04pm

re: #53 ORD neighbor

And this nutcase had launch authority over US nuclear weapons for four years...

The world knew there was no chance Carter would ever actually use them.... which is why it took Iran about 20 minutes to free the hostages once Reagan held the codes.

403 subsailor68  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:02:11pm

re: #391 Honorary Yooper

I know I came late to this thread, but...

WHAT THE FUCK IS CRATER SMOKING!?! THAT IGNORANT, JEW-HATING, ANTI-SEMITIC, RACIST, BASTARD SON-OF-A-BITCH!

Fuck him and the jackass he rode to the White House on in 1976. What an asshole.

Hi Yoop! Good to see ya.

I am a little surprised that you don't really seem to have a feeling about Carter one way or the other though.

;-)

404 WriterMom  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:02:12pm

re: #394 Ben Hur

Oh come on..you loved it.

405 redstateredneck  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:02:18pm

re: #398 reine.de.tout

Oh, lawdy, I see something like this I immediately think it's me.
Not me?


Yeah, reine, get that chip off your shoulder!
;-)

406 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:02:37pm

re: #383 brookly red

and he was out of bird shot.

And the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch was left on the shore.

407 Dianna  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:02:47pm

re: #334 AMER1CAN

Disagreeing with your premise - I see I left out the words "States' Rights and secession were a cover for".

The words "States' Rights" were used- at best - shorthand; at worst, they were obfuscation.

408 WriterMom  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:02:48pm

re: #405 redstateredneck

Mmmmm chips!

409 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:03:09pm

re: #336 reine.de.tout

I just got this book, Shalom Ya'll, which is mostly photos, but some reminiscences also, about Jews in the South.

My youngest son married a lovely Jewish girl from Alabama.

410 lostlakehiker  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:03:11pm

re: #31 UberInfidel67

He concludes: “A legitimate question for historians is how soon the blight of slavery would have been terminated peacefully in America, as in Great Britain and other civilized societies.”

I thought America led the charge to end slavery. Did GB do it before us? And WHAT other civilized societies?

Britain outlawed slavery in her dominions, and outlawed the slave trade on the high seas everywhere, even if from Africa to Brazil, say, before 1861.

411 Ben Hur  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:03:17pm
412 WriterMom  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:03:20pm

re: #387 jcm

GAAAAAAAAAAA brain bleach. Please.

413 MandyManners  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:03:27pm

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime where of the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

What part of that doesn't FCBBHO understand?

414 reine.de.tout  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:03:27pm

re: #405 redstateredneck

Yeah, reine, get that chip off your shoulder!
;-)

Oh, har-de-har-har.
:-)

415 Erik The Red  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:03:31pm

re: #408 WriterMom

Mmmmm chips!

I have the dip.

416 yma o hyd  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:03:32pm

re: #398 reine.de.tout

Oh, lawdy, I see something like this I immediately think it's me.
Not me?

I have the horrible suspicion he meant me ...


:-(((

417 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:03:55pm

re: #380 Charles

We sure do have a lot of people walking around with chips on their shoulders in here today.

And here I thought it just cases of excessive dandruff. ;)

418 WriterMom  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:03:56pm

re: #415 Erik The Red

No double dipping, mmmmkay?

/had to be said.

419 Annar  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:04:06pm

Yet another idiotic (former) leader channeling god, this time a christian one, to explain that the so-called 'Prince of Peace' does not like war, a truly vacuous statement. This guy missed his calling as a tent preacher but could, and should, finish his career on a soap box giving away pamphlets under a 'Repent Now' banner.

I thought that once the messiah was elected he would shut up but I guess that was a too mush to expect.

420 [deleted]  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:04:18pm
421 godfrey  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:04:20pm

re: #398 reine.de.tout

You might have Zapp's on your shoulders, chère!

422 [deleted]  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:04:25pm
423 Occasional Reader  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:04:29pm

re: #343 WriterMom

Canada does not have that same history of slavery, it was actually a haven for escaped slaves.

Meaning, there was never slavery in Canada?

424 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:04:44pm

re: #380 Charles

We sure do have a lot of people walking around with chips on their shoulders in here today.

Tortilla chip here, with a cup of salsa on the other. That way I don't have to go out for lunch.

(Pop always told me it's better to be a smartass than a dumbass...)

425 JacksonTn  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:04:44pm

re: #411 Ben Hur

CHIPS?

Well, say chips ... and you know who is gonna show up now ... FBV ... is there cake with those chips? ... he likes cake ...

/where ya at ... FBV

426 Ojoe  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:04:56pm

re: #410 lostlakehiker

The Brits used their cannon on their warships to stop the sea-borne slave trade, not exactly a peaceful way of stopping it.

427 godfrey  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:05:11pm

re: #422 ploome hineni

Putting matzoh in gumbo? What have you got against gumbo?

428 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:05:12pm

re: #413 MandyManners

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime where of the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

What part of that doesn't FCBBHO understand?

He wants the Communist Manifesto to be the operative legal document here, not the US Constitution. So anything in the latter document is to be ignored.

429 Erik The Red  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:05:15pm

re: #418 WriterMom

No double dipping, mmmmkay?

/had to be said.

Does that mean no fingers?

430 yma o hyd  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:05:48pm

re: #426 Ojoe

The Brits used their cannon on their warships to stop the sea-borne slave trade, not exactly a peaceful way of stopping it.

Yeah - totally unchristian, if one follows Carter ...

431 redstateredneck  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:05:55pm

re: #421 godfrey

You might have Zapp's on your shoulders, chère!

Mmmm Zapp's. I gave up carbs, but I'd fall off the wagon if there were an open bag of Zapp's around.

432 wiffersnapper  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:05:56pm

revisionist history ftl. shut up carter.

433 Ben Hur  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:05:57pm

re: #416 yma o hyd

I have the horrible suspicion he meant me ...


:-(((

110% YOU!

434 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:06:02pm

re: #402 RoughRider

The world knew there was no chance Carter would ever actually use them.... which is why it took Iran about 20 minutes to free the hostages once Reagan held the codes.

Same for 0bama; that's why he's getting all these "tests" now, and they'll get harder and harder until we're screwed, or he realizes he's over his head in shit and leaves.

435 outsidephilly  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:06:16pm

re: #353 reine.de.tout

Well, you're making my point.
Parents should have influence and say-so in what the family's gift of time to others will be, and it should reflect what is important to that family.

Which is why this mandatory volunteering service hours DOES NOT BELONG AS PART OF A SCHOOL CURRICULUM.

Nor should there be any mandatory voluntary children's "corps" of any sort.


I'm with you on that!

My family is very involved in our community! We spend many hours volunteering at the local state run nursing home, however, our time spent there performing in Christmas plays or glee club singing, and there are many residents who want us to spend time reading the Bible to them.

We cook meals at the local rescue mission, however, its a Christian organization.

There should NOT be any mandatory 'voluntary' children 'corp' of any sort!

sorry for posting, and leaving - coffee break is over BBL

436 Achilles Tang  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:06:39pm

re: #370 Occasional Reader

I done said it before, and I done... er, will do?... say it again:

Yes, the Civil War was about secession.

But secession was (principally) about slavery.

Slavery was an important economic issue to the south, but I know I have read opinions that it was only one of many factors. Some were other forms of economic dominance by the "northerners", and some were simply a cultural divergence. It seems too simplistic even without knowing anything, that one half of a country would start a war because they might have to modify their labor accounting methods, which is what abolishing slavery amounted to.

437 eschew_obfuscation  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:06:39pm

re: #389 gmsc

Child labor is a particular type of slavery, so it's a natural offshoot.

THPTHPTHPTHTHP!
I wouldn't have expected an OT post to start an on-topic sub-thread.

438 [deleted]  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:06:44pm
439 redstateredneck  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:06:50pm

re: #427 godfrey

Putting matzoh in gumbo? What have you got against gumbo?

Kosher gumbo doesn't sound like it'd be very good anyway. No shellfish, right?

440 yma o hyd  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:06:52pm

re: #433 Ben Hur

110% YOU!

I knew it!
I just knew it!


Waahhhhh!

441 NYCHardhat  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:07:00pm
442 Ben Hur  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:07:06pm

I occasionally have a chick on my shoulder.

443 rawmuse  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:07:13pm

Hi, I have not read upthread, but in case it has not been mentioned, Christianity was very much a part of the Great Unpleasantness. The Abolitionists were almost without exception uniformly Christian, and the most barbaric/activist of them was John Brown who felt that oceans of blood were required to be spilled of this nation to cleanse it of the stain of Slavery. John Brown and his movement are worthy of study. Like most religious extremists, today we would almost certainly consider him to be clinically insane.

444 turn  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:07:16pm

re: #422 ploome hineni

Not me either, I just got here. What's going on?

445 reine.de.tout  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:07:37pm

re: #409 Alouette

My youngest son married a lovely Jewish girl from Alabama.

Well, I have thoroughly enjoyed that book. It makes mention of the town of Kaplan, La - that is not where I grew up, but I did know some Kaplans in the town where I grew up. At any rate, it is an interesting and joyful book.

446 NYCHardhat  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:07:53pm

re: #442 Ben Hur

I occasionally have a chick on my shoulder.

I occasionally have chicks legs on my shoulders.

Oh shit. I went too far.

447 yochanan  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:08:17pm

re: #391 Honorary Yooper

TELL US HOW YOU REALLY FEEL.

448 yma o hyd  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:08:18pm

re: #442 Ben Hur

I occasionally have a chick on my shoulder.

Doesn't that get a bit heavy?

449 reine.de.tout  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:08:22pm

re: #421 godfrey

You might have Zapp's on your shoulders, chère!

Only the best for my shoulder!

450 redstateredneck  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:08:24pm

re: #442 Ben Hur

I occasionally have a chick on my shoulder.

TMI!

451 The_Vig  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:08:25pm

To all of those that have kids forced into mandatory community service, have them volunteer with the Ann Rand society to fight voluntarism.

452 capitalist piglet  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:08:28pm

re: #308 Occasional Reader

The thing is, Obama couldn't just will into being a "civilian security force that's as strong as the military" overnight, even if he wanted to.

This will never happen, folks. I really wish conservatives would drop this talking point.

I don't believe I ever said he would "will into being a 'civilian security force that's as strong as the military' overnight". (And if he says he wants to, why would you doubt that he wants to?)

But maybe you're right. Maybe the House bill that just passed is completely benign. I don't trust this crop of "progressives" in Washington, myself, and I would prefer they didn't even have the seeds to plant.

453 [deleted]  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:08:29pm
454 KingKenrod  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:08:31pm

re: #413 MandyManners

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime where of the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

What part of that doesn't FCBBHO understand?

I suspect Obama will get around this by getting the volunteer requirement forced into school and college curriculum (under threat of withheld federal funding) as a condition of getting a diploma/degree. Basically make it a "course" that has to be passed.

455 Erik The Red  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:08:35pm

re: #446 NYCHardhat

I occasionally have chicks legs on my shoulders.

Oh shit. I went too far.

Lucky bastard///

456 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:08:36pm

re: #442 Ben Hur

I occasionally have a chick on my shoulder.

My wife won't let me, but I have a 4.5 lb poodle who likes to climb on my shoulder.

457 Ben Hur  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:08:37pm

C'mon.

It's just Charles and a friend, kicking back, smoking a J.

He turns to his friend and says, "Watch this" and posts something to freak us all out.

Right now they are rolling on the floor cracking up.

458 godfrey  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:08:49pm

re: #438 ploome hineni

I'm good with spaetzel. You're convincing me.

re: #439 redstateredneck

Now I'm conflicted! Life just wouldn't be worth living without mussels.

459 Dianna  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:09:02pm

re: #376 Naso Tang

Yes of course, but what was the reason some did not want that? It was not simply that they were told by some that they had to free the slaves, was it?

No, prior to the Emancipation Proclamation, there was no actual movement to force the freeing of slaves. There was, however, a definite movement to begin restricting slavery, and otherwise making it uneconomic.

It was a social movement, with the usual components, none of whom got along.

One very good place to start is with John Brown, and the Raid on Harper's Ferry.

460 yesandno  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:09:05pm

re: #3 WriterMom

Well, at least he's turned his attention away from the JOOOOOOOOOOS for a while.

/

Not really....remember he said the CW was Un-Christian.....

Isn't that code word for...oh never mind.

461 redstateredneck  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:09:17pm

re: #446 NYCHardhat

I occasionally have chicks legs on my shoulders.

Oh shit. I went too far.

Waaay TMI!

462 Occasional Reader  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:09:22pm

re: #436 Naso Tang

because they might have to modify their labor accounting methods, which is what abolishing slavery amounted to.

I, ah, don't think they saw it that way at the time.

For instance, I don't think "Bleeding Kansas" pitted the Accrual Accounting Methodists versus the Cash Accountingists.

463 NYCHardhat  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:09:34pm

re: #455 Erik The Red

Lucky bastard///

You are what you eat. ;)

464 WriterMom  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:09:45pm

re: #423 Occasional Reader

No, the British did bring some slaves with them, but it was not as extensive a system as in the US. This link from Ontario also says they were at first free, and then slaves, but then able to buy property. I think each province had different numbers, but I think we are talking about thousands of individuals-not tens of thousands even. I don't know too much about it.

465 reine.de.tout  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:10:15pm

re: #427 godfrey

Putting matzoh in gumbo? What have you got against gumbo?

re: #439 redstateredneck

Kosher gumbo doesn't sound like it'd be very good anyway. No shellfish, right?

Here's the book -Matzoh Ball Gumbo: Culinary Tales of the Jewish South

466 WriterMom  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:10:18pm

re: #429 Erik The Red

!

467 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:10:19pm

re: #446 NYCHardhat

I occasionally have chicks legs on my shoulders.

Oh shit. I went too far.

What a waste of perfectly good drumsticks!

468 Erik The Red  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:10:33pm

re: #463 NYCHardhat

You are what you eat. ;)

Do you want me to really say it?

469 UberInfidel67  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:10:34pm

re: #446 NYCHardhat
Would that be like "How do you eat a frog?"

/meds haven't kicked in yet

470 turn  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:10:36pm

re: #451 The_Vig

To all of those that have kids forced into mandatory community service, have them volunteer with the Ann Rand society to fight voluntarism.

OMG, don't tell me O's doing something on this.

471 Wishing  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:10:41pm

What the zero seems to miss is that you cannot legislate a good heart.
Children watch their parents: if they learn kindness to others from mom and dad, then there is a darn good chance they will continue that practice into adulthood.
Telling kids, or anyone, that you have to do this, is a waste of time and energy, and a great deal of money.

472 Desert Dog  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:10:42pm

re: #464 WriterMom

No, the British did bring some slaves with them, but it was not as extensive a system as in the US. This link from Ontario also says they were at first free, and then slaves, but then able to buy property. I think each province had different numbers, but I think we are talking about thousands of individuals-not tens of thousands even. I don't know too much about it.

They had boatloads, literally, in the Caribbean though

473 reine.de.tout  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:10:48pm

re: #444 turn

Not me either, I just got here. What's going on?

Charles said there are some folks with chips on their shoulders hanging around today, and we're trying to figure out who it is.

474 brookly red  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:10:51pm

re: #456 Kosh's Shadow

My wife won't let me, but I have a 4.5 lb poodle who likes to climb on my shoulder.

you missed it dude...

475 Eowyn2  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:10:51pm

re: #289 godfrey

You guys know about Jimmy Carter and The Elders, right? From their webpage:


So they have appointed themselves, naturally.

LMAO

For this alone, these clowns deserve pitch and feathers, all of them.

I had never seen that.
'armed resistance fighters', communists, National Socialists, micro-banking procurers, and, of course, community organizers.
Yes, I trust them, trust them very much.

/

476 Occasional Reader  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:11:00pm

re: #443 rawmuse

John Brown and his movement are worthy of study.

It's hard to study John Brown at the moment, because his body lies a-moulderin' in the ground.

(Little known fact: The song "John Brown's Body" did not originally refer to THAT John Brown.)

477 redstateredneck  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:11:00pm

The whole point of volunteering (IMHO) is the blessing you get from doing it. Making it mandatory destroys that.

478 Achilles Tang  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:11:01pm

re: #381 jcm

It was about States Rights, vs. Federal Power. However THE RIGHT the south succeeded over was the right to own slaves. The precursor was the Missouri Compromise, which restricted new states from joining as slave states. The south saw that as an attempt to over whelm the power of Southern States in the congress.

OK, so it was the last straw in a number of straws, which is all I argue. The common principle that it was entirely based on the rights and wrongs of slavery is too simplistic. After all it is hardly as if freed slaves were suddenly now considered equal citizens even by the north. That took a lot longer, well into my lifetime in fact.

479 Querent  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:11:03pm

all right, Mr. Carter, you leave me with no choice but to chant the "My Peanut Has A First Name" ditty from my childhood, until such time as a) you cease and desist with the stupid remarks in public, or b) the entire Lizard Nation has joined in and sung ten rounds in chorus...

480 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:11:15pm

re: #447 yochanan

TELL US HOW YOU REALLY FEEL.

If I did about Jimmy Carter right now, I might wind up meeting Stinky Beaumont in a dark alley.

481 NYCHardhat  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:11:24pm

re: #468 Erik The Red

Do you want me to really say it?

I lobbed the pitch....put it into the seats!

482 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:11:33pm

re: #465 reine.de.tout

Here's the book -Matzoh Ball Gumbo: Culinary Tales of the Jewish South

My daughter-in-law told me she doesn't like Southern food. But while we were in Alabama, we had the most awesome BBQ'd beef ribs!

483 Zimriel  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:11:35pm

re: #380 Charles

We sure do have a lot of people walking around with chips on their shoulders in here today.

I'd posted some trollische comments above which took pro-slavery arguments in good faith...

I'm actually pleased with the comments here. We don't have the volume of yee-haw Confederacy apologetic and abolitionists-were-the-good-guys-ya-wickid-baastahd polemic which I find in threads elsewhere on the 'Tubes when the topic comes up.

484 HelloDare  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:11:35pm

re: #319 jcm

Lefties love the part about "He who is without sin cast the first stone," I mean they'll use that justify anything and attempt to negate criticism of it by use the Bible.

They wholly ignore what happened next.....

"Go and sin no more."

Evan Sayet goes into that whole mindset in his speech to the Heritage Foundation. I think Charles had a thread on it here awhile back.

485 subsailor68  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:11:38pm

re: #446 NYCHardhat

I occasionally have chicks legs on my shoulders.

Oh shit. I went too far.

Does that mean you're a "bird colonel"?

486 turn  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:11:53pm

re: #457 Ben Hur

Thanks for the visual, ha!

487 godfrey  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:12:00pm

re: #465 reine.de.tout

Temple Israel Brisket and Cornmeal-Fried Fish Fillets with Sephardic Vinagre Sauce

The South does interesting things to people, some good, some bad. This sounds good.

488 WriterMom  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:12:08pm

re: #477 redstateredneck

Yes. Then it's called VOLUNTOLDING.

489 MandyManners  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:12:14pm

re: #470 turn

OMG, don't tell me O's doing something on this.

See Reine's No. 70.

490 Occasional Reader  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:12:22pm

re: #464 WriterMom

No, the British did bring some slaves with them, but it was not as extensive a system as in the US.

Well, of course not. It's Canada. Everything there is a smaller and more boring imitation of The Real Thing here in the US.

/ducks

491 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:12:25pm

IMHO, Carter's primary problem has always been an excess of piety, the kind which puts blinders around one's eyes, making one see only what one wants to see. He has a fixation upon what he believes.

At times, it's made him appear self-righteous and/or sanctimonious. I don't think either applies. I think it makes him, in essence, stupid in certain arenas of the intellect.

492 Dianna  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:12:26pm

re: #392 Land Shark

Excellent!

You did what I did.

493 rawmuse  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:12:29pm

re: #476 Occasional Reader

It's hard to study John Brown at the moment, because his body lies a-moulderin' in the ground.

(Little known fact: The song "John Brown's Body" did not originally refer to THAT John Brown.)

Just as our own Star Spangled Banner had its beginnings as a bawdy saloon song.

494 Eowyn2  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:12:32pm

re: #380 Charles

We sure do have a lot of people walking around with chips on their shoulders in here today.

thats not a chip, thats a bone spur and I'll thank you not to make fun of me.

/

495 alegrias  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:12:55pm

re: #387 jcm

And blew Khomeini.

* * * *
And raised up Mugabe.

(Why doesn't Carter "liberate" the Zimbabweans he helped sell into slavery under Mugabe's marxist gulag?)

496 Leonidas Hoplite  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:13:01pm

re: #482 Alouette

My daughter-in-law told me she doesn't like Southern food. But while we were in Alabama, we had the most awesome BBQ'd beef ribs!

I've lived my whole life north of the Mason-Dixon line and am itching for an excuse to move south just so I can eat better!

497 Ben Hur  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:13:05pm

Extremists use 'civil rights' group front to push agenda

Earlier this month, I spoke before the World Affairs Council of the Desert on the threat of radical Islam to the West.

My remarks focused on radical Islamic groups, which, posing as "civil rights" groups, try to suppress free speech and intimidate critics by calling them "Islamophobes" and, in some cases, actually threatening and killing such critics. I detailed the history of the Muslim Brotherhood, which is the parent organization of terrorist groups such as al-Qaida and Hamas.

I described a secret infrastructure of Muslim Brotherhood groups in the United States who promote their radical agenda through a network of front groups that falsely claimed to be "moderate." The bottom line: Radical Islamic groups committed a grand deception by anointing themselves "civil rights" groups or "charities" when, in fact, they were secret political, financial or military fronts for terrorists.

498 tfc3rid  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:13:22pm

re: #441 NYCHardhat

N. Korea "interrogating" U.S. journalists.

I am sure their interrogations are proceeding according to Geneva Conventions...

499 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:13:22pm

re: #37 Dave the.....

Conventional wisdom has always been that eventually slavery would have ended anyway in the south. But others say that no, it would have just moved into factories.

The nineteenth century is not my area of expertise, but either way, would it have expanded extensively across the Midwest if unchecked?

500 WriterMom  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:13:27pm

re: #490 Occasional Reader

You gonna say that to my face, huh mister?

[cracks knuckles, gets ready to rumble]

501 redc1c4  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:13:32pm

re: #12 fish

I wish people would stop giving this man pen, paper or microphones. Why can't he just go somewhere warm and play golf for the rest of his days?

does hell have golf courses? 'cause as far as i'm concerned, Peanut can go to hell.

502 Gus  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:13:32pm

How long before this is adopted by academia? Carter is delving into what one could call fantasy history or an imaginative critique of history. This is nothing but historical re-modeling and is a common feature within liberal academic circles. They take the facts and re-write it using liberal or leftist standards of which they base their words on coming to the general conclusion of how the __________ (choose a conflict) war could have been avoided and what we evil American did wrong:

How the Civil War Could Have Been Avoided
How World War I Have Been Avoided
How World War II Could Have Been Avoided
How the Korean War Could Have Been Avoided
How the Vietnam War Could Have Been Avoided

Ad nauseum.

Along these themes you will always find the leftist value judgments which are de rigueur of this genre.

503 turn  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:13:57pm

re: #473 reine.de.tout

ok, have to check back later when the dust settles.
bbl

504 rawmuse  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:14:04pm

re: #392 Land Shark

I would agree with you and add that the other causus belli was the expansion of slavery in states like Kansas.

505 NYCHardhat  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:14:08pm

re: #498 tfc3rid

I am sure their interrogations are proceeding according to Geneva Conventions...

waterboarding liberal journalists.

506 Eowyn2  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:14:12pm

re: #477 redstateredneck

The whole point of volunteering (IMHO) is the blessing you get from doing it. Making it mandatory destroys that.

Mandatory Volunteerism. From the new Government Dept of Oxymorons and Redundancy.

507 Killer Tomato  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:14:17pm

re: #476 Occasional Reader

It's hard to study John Brown at the moment, because his body lies a-moulderin' in the ground.

(Little known fact: The song "John Brown's Body" did not originally refer to THAT John Brown.)

I knew that.
:D
(CW is my area of interest)

508 redstateredneck  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:14:21pm

re: #469 UberInfidel67

Would that be like "How do you eat a frog?"

/meds haven't kicked in yet

OMG. My older daughter overheard her father telling that joke to his brother in a seafood restaurant when whe was about five years old and then went from table to table retelling it to total strangers! ! ! He thought is was hilarious. I think I was hiding under the table by then.

509 WriterMom  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:14:24pm

re: #502 Gus 802

Everyone is SUCH a fucking genius about the past, huh?

510 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:14:32pm

re: #472 Desert Dog

They had boatloads, literally, in the Caribbean though

Molasses to rum to slaves.

511 tfc3rid  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:14:56pm

re: #477 redstateredneck

The whole point of volunteering (IMHO) is the blessing you get from doing it. Making it mandatory destroys that.

I could not agree more...

512 Erik The Red  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:15:01pm

re: #481 NYCHardhat

I lobbed the pitch....put it into the seats!

No I lost the chance.
whispers Pussy

513 JacksonTn  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:15:10pm

re: #465 reine.de.tout

Here's the book -Matzoh Ball Gumbo: Culinary Tales of the Jewish South

Hey ya Reine ... I been watching LGF Spy while working on computer ... Charles may be talking about a evolution thread ... there has been some sparks flying in one of those ....

But ... if you got chips ... I want spinach artichoke dip for mine ... I know you can make it .... oh, and some boiled shrimp would be nice too ...

514 Diamond Bullet  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:15:16pm

There's something unique about Jimmy Carter. He's one of the few politicians about whom my opinion has never changed. For some, such as Reagan, my initial wariness gave way to respect and eventually deep appreciation. For others, like Clinton, initial good feelings gave way to disappointment and anger. Heck, as a 9/11 Republican I started off hating Bush and voting for Gore in 2000, before ending up deeply relieved that Bush beat that simpering, snaggle-toothed weasel Kerry in '04. But Carter -- man, I loathed him when I was a kid, I loathed him growing up in the 1980s, I loathed him in the 1990s, and I loathe him now. He hasn't even had the dignity to vary his constant stream of stupidity and incompetence - I can look back on decades of identical loathing. That's gotta be some kind of record.

515 debutaunt  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:15:17pm

re: #506 Eowyn2

Mandatory Volunteerism. From the new Government Dept of Oxymorons and Redundancy.

The generous spirit of Americans must and will be stopped.

516 godfrey  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:15:17pm

re: #502 Gus 802

They're clearly pushing for a putatively 'new European' perspective, which is that war is now obsolete, unthinkable, etc.

Never mind that there are plenty of people still around who think it isn't, and will fight you about it.

517 Occasional Reader  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:15:22pm

re: #459 Dianna

No, prior to the Emancipation Proclamation, there was no actual movement to force the freeing of slaves.

Huh?

518 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:15:22pm

re: #54 DisturbedEma

If he says that Jews caused the Civil War. . .so help ME. . .

Part of me--the twisted history teacher side--was tempted to write up the argument.

Another part of me pointed out that God alone knows who reads this site.

//////////

519 daledog  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:15:38pm

Oh yeah Jimmah? Well I declare that the Peloponnesian Wars were unneccessary. How do you like that?

520 UberInfidel67  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:15:48pm

re: #508 redstateredneck
ROFLMAO*********************

521 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:16:08pm

Speaking of chips and shoulders:

Lance Armstrong’s broken right collarbone won’t keep him out of the Tour de France, but being competitive in time for the May 9 start of the Giro d’Italia remains a major question mark.

Whether Armstrong can recover in time to start July’s Tour is not a major concern for Astana team manager Johan Bruyneel, but he’s not so sure about the Giro with the start in Venice just six weeks away.

“This has no impact on the Tour at all. I don’t think this changes anything for the Tour de France,” Bruyneel said Tuesday. “It’s too early to say about the Giro. Being at the start of the Giro isn’t a problem, but he has to have a decent level to be competitive. We may have to change our focus and try to do the Giro with another mentality.”

From VeloNews.

522 redstateredneck  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:16:09pm

re: #488 WriterMom

Yes. Then it's called VOLUNTOLDING.

Good one. Upding!

523 NYCHardhat  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:16:22pm

re: #512 Erik The Red

No I lost the chance.
whispers Pussy

Probably the only thing I would get my ass shot for.
Yeah, I know, I'm shallow.

524 tfc3rid  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:16:25pm

re: #505 NYCHardhat

waterboarding liberal journalists.

Or worse, God forbid physically torturing them... Or more...

525 jcm  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:16:26pm

re: #478 Naso Tang

OK, so it was the last straw in a number of straws, which is all I argue. The common principle that it was entirely based on the rights and wrongs of slavery is too simplistic. After all it is hardly as if freed slaves were suddenly now considered equal citizens even by the north. That took a lot longer, well into my lifetime in fact.

Correct.

The founders actually set it motion with the 3/5ths compromise to form the Union in the first place. Southern States wanted slaves counted in the census which would have given them greater representation in Congress, and the power to perpetuate slavery. Northern States didn't what slaves counted at all since they were not free men. The South didn't like the power that would have given the North over them to abolish slavery in the future. Without the compromise there would have been no Union, the 3/5ths compromise was a delicate balance of power that would have been upset with States joining under the Missouri Compromise.

526 [deleted]  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:16:28pm
527 Dianna  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:16:30pm

re: #464 WriterMom

Never forget that some systems of slavery allow slaves to own property, up to and including slaves of their own.

I remember getting a severe headache about it at one point.

528 Zimriel  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:16:33pm

re: #502 Gus 802

How long before this is adopted by academia? Carter is delving into what one could call fantasy history or an imaginative critique of history. This is nothing but historical re-modeling and is a common feature within liberal academic circles. They take the facts and re-write it using liberal or leftist standards of which they base their words on coming to the general conclusion of how the __________ (choose a conflict) war could have been avoided and what we evil American did wrong:


Ad nauseum.

Along these themes you will always find the leftist value judgments which are de rigueur of this genre.

In my experience, walking through bookstore aisles, contrafactual scenarioes are most popular from conservative authors, like Weber, Ringo, and Turtledove. Pondering how a certain war might have been avoided and if it SHOULD have been avoided isn't history, true, but it's a legitimate application of history to modern policy.

529 godfrey  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:16:38pm

re: #519 daledog

Right, because we would admire Greek civilization so much more if only they had capitulated to the Persians.

530 alegrias  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:16:52pm

re: #471 Wishing

What the zero seems to miss is that you cannot legislate a good heart.
Children watch their parents: if they learn kindness to others from mom and dad, then there is a darn good chance they will continue that practice into adulthood.
Telling kids, or anyone, that you have to do this, is a waste of time and energy, and a great deal of money.

* * * *
Marxists don't care about your heart! They want to tell you what to do in all facets of your life.

Marxists want you to conform to THEIR ideas, and support their utopian plans, without your backtalk.

531 redc1c4  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:16:55pm

re: #506 Eowyn2

Mandatory Volunteerism. From the new Government Dept of Oxymorons and the Department of Redundancy Department.

FTFY!

532 Occasional Reader  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:16:56pm

re: #510 Honorary Yooper

Molasses to rum to slaves.

Sit down, John, sit down, John, sit down.

533 redstateredneck  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:17:11pm

re: #496 Leonidas Hoplite

I've lived my whole life north of the Mason-Dixon line and am itching for an excuse to move south just so I can eat better!

Come on down!

534 midwestgak  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:17:42pm

OT. Anyone here familiar with Wadsworth, OH? I'll be traveling there in two weeks from Chicago. 80/90 across IN and OH to State Rt. 94 sound right?

535 Erik The Red  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:17:48pm

re: #523 NYCHardhat

Probably the only thing I would get my ass shot for.
Yeah, I know, I'm shallow.

So would most of us males who think only with the little one. :)

536 Occasional Reader  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:17:56pm

re: #500 WriterMom

You gonna say that to my face, huh mister?

[cracks knuckles, gets ready to rumble]

How "un-Christian"!

537 WriterMom  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:18:00pm

re: #527 Dianna

Slave hierarchies. Fabulous!

538 godfrey  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:18:08pm

re: #519 daledog

Yes, I know it was between Athens and Sparta. Scratch that. Couldn't resist getting in a jab at the ME.

539 WriterMom  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:18:20pm

re: #536 Occasional Reader

HA!

540 pbird  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:18:28pm

re: #23 dhg4

So if violence can never be justified, why does he have this strange affinity for terrorists?

I sometimes think he and others like him fine them erotic.

541 rawmuse  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:18:31pm

re: #459 Dianna


One very good place to start is with John Brown, and the Raid on Harper's Ferry.

Also John Brown's activities in Kansas and Missouri. The man did not hesitate to kill slavers. He used a broad sword to do it, too, and even paid to have swords and pikes made and distributed, since he figured that slaves would not be able to master modern weaponry.

542 Eowyn2  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:18:32pm

re: #471 Wishing

What the zero seems to miss is that you cannot legislate a good heart.
Children watch their parents: if they learn kindness to others from mom and dad, then there is a darn good chance they will continue that practice into adulthood.
Telling kids, or anyone, that you have to do this, is a waste of time and energy, and a great deal of money.

its all in the money dear, it always has been.

543 Gus  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:18:34pm

re: #509 WriterMom

Everyone is SUCH a fucking genius about the past, huh?

There's never a shortage. It's one of the things I despise if reading an account of a WWII battle. Then it become not history but editorializing.

//How the Normandy Invasion Could Have Been Avoided

544 Taqiyyotomist  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:18:35pm

re: #533 redstateredneck

I'll come by for a visit if you can hide all the bugs the size of my fist, and the spiders the size of plates. Until then, I'll be here, tending my snowshovels.

545 godfrey  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:18:47pm

re: #533 redstateredneck

IIRC, southern state populations are growing pretty fast in general.

546 badger1970  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:18:54pm

So this Hitler Youth bill passed by a bunch of jackasses, how will it affect (effect?) my autistic daughter?

Back on topic, as for prolonging the war, blame it on the North's general incompetence and unwillingness to fight.

547 redstateredneck  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:18:54pm

re: #520 UberInfidel67

ROFLMAO*********************

She had no idea what she was doing. She just knew that it was funny. Years later we told her what she had done!

548 UberInfidel67  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:19:29pm

re: #540 pbird
Terrorist erotica? eeeeeewwwwwwwww

549 WriterMom  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:19:31pm

re: #543 Gus 802

It's with everything. The so smarts, for some reason-don't have a fucking clue about the future, but they have totally aced the past.

550 alegrias  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:20:09pm

re: #491 pre-Boomer Marine brat

IMHO, Carter's primary problem has always been an excess of piety, the kind which puts blinders around one's eyes, making one see only what one wants to see. He has a fixation upon what he believes.

At times, it's made him appear self-righteous and/or sanctimonious. I don't think either applies. I think it makes him, in essence, stupid in certain arenas of the intellect.

* * * *
A real mensch would DO something for the people he sold into slavery, such as Mugabe's long suffering & now starving victims.

A real mensch wouldn't shill for people who consider women chattel property, and are PROUD of it.

A real mensch wouldn't defend people who sell other people, like his proteges who kidnap people, torture them and hold them for ransom.

551 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:20:09pm

re: #58 FurryOldGuyJeans

There is an interesting "What If" documentary detailing American history if the South had won the war, C.S.A.: The Confederate States of America.

Just a couple of reading suggestions, there is an anthology called "The Fantastic Civil War", which is short specfic and fantasy about the war. Some very interesting stories, including a number that play the whatif game.

Also, "The Wild Blue And The Gray", which is a completely insane fluffy delight of a novel in which the CSA has come into the First World, but the USA, under President William Jennings Bryant is trying to stay out. Lieutenant Amos Ninekiller, from the Cherokee Nation, has been assigned to the Confederate Flying Corps--and things go from there.

Walk-on or better roles for William Faulkner, Patton, Mata Hari, Ho Chi Minh, Miss Rhetticia Butler (daughter of Scarlett and Rhett), Hitler, Jelly Roll Morton...lots of fun.

552 Gus  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:20:15pm

re: #528 Zimriel

In my experience, walking through bookstore aisles, contrafactual scenarioes are most popular from conservative authors, like Weber, Ringo, and Turtledove. Pondering how a certain war might have been avoided and if it SHOULD have been avoided isn't history, true, but it's a legitimate application of history to modern policy.

Yes. As I stated before, editorializing. It's a reflection of modern journalism thought as well with all of the ideological baggage.

553 redc1c4  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:20:17pm

re: #534 midwestgak

OT. Anyone here familiar with Wadsworth, OH? I'll be traveling there in two weeks from Chicago. 80/90 across IN and OH to State Rt. 94 sound right?

nothing about traveling to Ohio sounds right.....

/white smoke

554 Dianna  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:20:29pm

re: #499 SanFranciscoZionist

The nineteenth century is not my area of expertise, but either way, would it have expanded extensively across the Midwest if unchecked?

The thinking of the time - or the paranoid fear of the time, as you prefer - was that blacks would have been used as agricultural labor (think latifundia), and poor whites enslaved in the factories.

555 DaddyG  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:20:41pm

The Southern economy was tied to large plantation agriculture that depended on slavery to run it. There were plenty of slave owners in the north and abolitionists in the South. The compromises made over slavery in order to ratify the constitution and later admit states into the union sewed the seeds of the war. Blood was spilled over the issue even before the civil war (i.e. Bloody Kansas). Officers that fought with each other in the Mexican American war were torn over their loyalty to the country (and their states) and the North even sought out Lee as their commander.

The whole situation was terrible complex and saying "it was about slavery" or "it was about states rights" does not do justice to the difficulty both sides faced.

Lee himself wrestled greatly with commanding troops in the war, but when the Northern army crossed the line into Virginia he and others felt their sovereignty had been violated. After a night of pacing the floors of his home he submitted this letter.

Resignation of Robert E. Lee - Date: 4/20/1861
Arlington, Washington City P.O.
April 20, 1861

General:

Since my interview with you on the 18th instant I have felt that I ought not longer to retain my commission in the Army. I therefore tender my resignation, which I request you will recommend for acceptance.

It would have been presented at once, but for the struggle it has cost me to separate myself from a service to which I have devoted all the best years of my life & all the ability I possessed.

During the whole of that time, more than 30 years, I have experienced nothing but kindness from my superiors, & the most cordial friendship from my companions. To no one Genl have I been as much indebted as to yourself for uniform kindness & consideration, & it has always been my ardent desire to merit your approbation.

I shall carry with me to the grave the most grateful recollections of your kind consideration, & your name & fame will always be dear to me. Save in the defence of my native State, I never desire again to draw my sword.

Be pleased to accept my most earnest wishes for the continuance of your happiness & prosperity & believe me most truly yours

R. E. Lee

Could race based slavery have been abolished without the civil war? Possibly, the British did it. But how long would it have taken and at what cost in lives and liberty? Certainly the civil war was a terrible price to pay.

Having said that - Jimmy Carter is either willfully ignorant of history or just plain ignorant.

556 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:20:44pm

re: #499 SanFranciscoZionist

The nineteenth century is not my area of expertise, but either way, would it have expanded extensively across the Midwest if unchecked?

It's unknown how slavery would have expanded post-1860 without the Civil War. Slavery was banned in 1787 in the Northwest Territory (modern-day IL, IN, MI, OH, and WI), and later banned north of the MO-AR border in the Missouri Compromise of 1820 (which brought in MO as a slave state, and ME as a free state; also a reason why OK has a panhandle). It was in the Kansas-Nebraska Act that the major problems started. Both were allowed to determine whether to be free or slave in contradiction to the Missouri Compromise of 1820. In NE, this wasn't too bad, but in KS, next to slave-holding MO, this led to "Bleeding Kansas", a mini-Civil War before the Civil War. Odds are, the fighting in Congress would've continued until a fight broke out on a national scale. After the Kansas-Nebraska Act, it was only a matter of time.

557 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:21:03pm

re: #502 Gus 802

How the Civil War Could Have Been Avoided
How World War I Have Been Avoided
How World War II Could Have Been Avoided
How the Korean War Could Have Been Avoided
How the Vietnam War Could Have Been Avoided

How the American Revolution could have been avoided
How the voyage of the Mayflower (and others) could have been avoided
How the Glorious Revolution of 1689 could have been avoided
How the Magna Carta could have been avoided
How Jesus ...

*biting tongue*

558 UberInfidel67  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:21:20pm

re: #547 redstateredneck
I love the "outta the mouths of babes stories". When mine were little, I heard my son ask my daughter "Sis, do you wanna play foodstamps?" He had a whole bunch of paper slips in his hand. I was ROFLOL

559 pbird  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:21:25pm

Obviously I can't type. Meant find.

560 redstateredneck  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:21:35pm

Open thread^^^.

561 Occasional Reader  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:21:45pm

re: #541 rawmuse

since he figured that slaves would not be able to master modern weaponry.

Probably right on that last point (given that he hadn't planned in any training time to his fantasy)... percussion cap muskets were not exactly self-explanatory!

562 Dianna  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:21:49pm

re: #541 rawmuse

That's why I said, "John Brown's movement and the raid."

Brown was, without a doubt, a terrorist. He was, as you said, probably quite mad.

563 Gus  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:22:00pm

re: #516 godfrey

They're clearly pushing for a putatively 'new European' perspective, which is that war is now obsolete, unthinkable, etc.

Never mind that there are plenty of people still around who think it isn't, and will fight you about it.

So it become an ideological vehicle -- or simply propaganda of sorts.

564 redstateredneck  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:22:13pm

re: #558 UberInfidel67

I love the "outta the mouths of babes stories". When mine were little, I heard my son ask my daughter "Sis, do you wanna play foodstamps?" He had a whole bunch of paper slips in his hand. I was ROFLOL

Did she have to drag a baby doll around behind her to be eligible?

565 [deleted]  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:22:17pm
566 Eowyn2  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:22:30pm

re: #502 Gus 802

How long before this is adopted by academia? Carter is delving into what one could call fantasy history or an imaginative critique of history. This is nothing but historical re-modeling and is a common feature within liberal academic circles. They take the facts and re-write it using liberal or leftist standards of which they base their words on coming to the general conclusion of how the _WAR OF THE ROSES_________ (choose a conflict) war could have been avoided and what we evil American did wrong:


Ad nauseum.

Along these themes you will always find the leftist value judgments which are de rigueur of this genre.

567 Gus  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:22:47pm

re: #557 pre-Boomer Marine brat

How the American Revolution could have been avoided
How the voyage of the Mayflower (and others) could have been avoided
How the Glorious Revolution of 1689 could have been avoided
How the Magna Carta could have been avoided
How Jesus ...

*biting tongue*

The Da Vinci Code? ;)

568 WindHorse  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:23:17pm

re: #27 tfc3rid

I think Jimmy Carter is pretty un-dude.....

569 StillAMarine  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:23:18pm

re: #58 FurryOldGuyJeans

There is an interesting "What If" documentary detailing American history if the South had won the war, C.S.A.: The Confederate States of America.

Harry Turtledove wrote several volumes on what might have happened if the Confederate battle plans for Antietam, which were lost by a Confederate courier and recovered by Union forces, were recovered by the Confederates instead. Since possession of the battle plans gave McClellan a huge advantage, the the Union might then have decisively lost the Battle of Sharpsburg. In Turtledove's novel, the Union gave up, Lincoln was reviled and no longer played a part in history.
The rest of the series covers the alternate history right up to the South being finally defeated in World War Two.
A great read.

570 Eowyn2  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:23:32pm

re: #546 badger1970

So this Hitler Youth bill passed by a bunch of jackasses, how will it affect (effect?) my autistic daughter?

Autism is not an excuse. Mandatory Volunteerism is Mandatory.

571 Ben Hur  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:23:36pm

Candidate Obama vs. President Obama: Change We Can Believe In?

Via HotAir.

572 UberInfidel67  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:23:37pm

re: #564 redstateredneck
I don't think she knew what he was talking about. I don't know why he even brought it up!

573 Occasional Reader  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:23:48pm

How The Cambrian Explosion Could Have Been Avoided

574 reine.de.tout  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:24:41pm

re: #513 JacksonTn

Hey ya Reine ... I been watching LGF Spy while working on computer ... Charles may be talking about a evolution thread ... there has been some sparks flying in one of those ....

But ... if you got chips ... I want spinach artichoke dip for mine ... I know you can make it .... oh, and some boiled shrimp would be nice too ...

Boiled shrimp, or like a friend of mine says, "bald shrimp"?

575 Eowyn2  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:24:52pm

re: #557 pre-Boomer Marine brat

How the American Revolution could have been avoided
How the voyage of the Mayflower (and others) could have been avoided
How the Glorious Revolution of 1689 could have been avoided
How the Magna Carta could have been avoided
How Jesus ...

*biting tongue*

How the Septembrist movement could not be avoided but was caused by the evil industrialists of the United States.

576 Dianna  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:24:57pm

re: #528 Zimriel

In my experience, walking through bookstore aisles, contrafactual scenarioes are most popular from conservative authors, like Weber, Ringo, and Turtledove. Pondering how a certain war might have been avoided and if it SHOULD have been avoided isn't history, true, but it's a legitimate application of history to modern policy.

What the hell?!

In what book has David Weber presented a contrafactual scenario?

As to John Ringo - again, what?! Where, in which book?

Turtledove I grant you, but he's not conservative, exactly, and would probably reject the term.

577 turn  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:25:28pm

re: #489 MandyManners

See Reine's No. 70.

friggin unbelievable, and uniforms to boot. Man (I mean MM) Charles has to start a new thread on this. No f@#$% way am I going to let the government dictate to my children what and how much service to the community they provide. This is like the Hitler youth program only destined to turn out a bunch of obamabots.

578 Gus  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:25:36pm

re: #575 Eowyn2

How the Septembrist movement could not be avoided but was caused by the evil industrialists of the United States.

Previously unknown secrets revealed!

//

579 Yashmak  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:25:39pm

re: #12 fish

I wish people would stop giving this man pen, paper or microphones. Why can't he just go somewhere warm and play golf for the rest of his days?

I'm kind of glad they DO keep giving him microphones. His crazy becomes more and more apparent with each sound-bite.

Next thing you know, he'll be announcing that crucifying Christ was un-Christian, and give us instructions on how it could have been avoided. Because, you know, that's so constructive in the here-and-now.

580 turn  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:26:02pm

re: #576 Dianna

Hi Dianna, how is your boss doing?

581 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:26:17pm

re: #109 Eowyn2

Great Britain had outlawed the purchase and selling of humans in GB. They also outlawed it in any of their countries in Africa. They sent their navy to blockade the African coasts and any British slaver had the slaves released. HOWEVER, their sugar islands still allowed the purchase of and selling of slaves so long as they weren't imported. Britain also allowed serfdom. If someone didn't want to pay their servants, they simply 'deducted' any broken, tarnished, torn, items from their meager pay. There is more than one definition of slave.

Britain had long been uncomfortable with slavery in the British Isles. One detail I found in a guidebook to 'ethnic London' was that the law stating that a slave in Britain could emancipate himself by proving he could be self-supporting led to a late eighteenth century population of a few thousand young free black men in London.

Where they all went is apparently a mystery, according to the author of the book. I suggest that since they were mostly men, the mystery is solved--one young West African, marrying a blond barmaid from Southwark times four generations pretty much equals the folks you see in Southwark now.

582 Silvergirl  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:26:24pm

re: #493 rawmuse

Just as our own Star Spangled Banner had its beginnings as a bawdy saloon song.

Penned by Buzzsawmonkey?

583 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:26:44pm

re: #573 Occasional Reader

How The Cambrian Explosion Could Have Been Avoided

I'll bet there's a number of YECs just waiting to hear that one.
/

584 Zimriel  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:26:56pm

re: #557 pre-Boomer Marine brat

How the American Revolution could have been avoided

By giving Samuel Adams the public hanging he deserved.

How the voyage of the Mayflower (and others) could have been avoided

By sending the Puritans to Jamaica as slaves as they deserved.

How the Glorious Revolution of 1689 could have been avoided

By not betraying England to the Dutch.

How the Magna Carta could have been avoided

By not wasting money on Crusade and (especially) on King Richard's ransom; and then hanging, drawing, and quartering any remaining mutinous barons.

How Jesus ...

*biting tongue*

By telling him he was NOT the Messiah, he was a very naughty boy.

(On the troll scale, how was the above?) :^)

585 NY Nana  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:27:07pm

Re Jimmy the Jew hater?

[Deleted] [deleted] [deleted] [deleted] [deleted] [deleted] and also [deleted].

586 JacksonTn  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:28:08pm

re: #574 reine.de.tout

Boiled shrimp, or like a friend of mine says, "bald shrimp"?

That's how I say it too ... you would die if you heard me ... I don't have a "down in the Parish" accent ... but get me together with some of my friends from back home and ... well ... Where ya at, Cher .... starts really coming out ... I miss the old New Orleans ... way back with K & B Drug store, all the corner family poboy shops ... crawfish boils, boudin, .... so hungry now ...but would not give you a dime for the "Chocolate City" now ... they can have it ... I will keep my memories ...

587 Dianna  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:28:20pm

re: #580 turn

Hi Dianna, how is your boss doing?

Out of the hospital, referred to specialists.

He's still not in. I'm doing some of his job; which reminds me that I need to stop typing and get back to it!

588 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:28:28pm

re: #567 Gus 802

The Da Vinci Code? ;)

Seriously, I know only enough about that book to know that I don't want to know what it's about.

589 [deleted]  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:28:57pm
590 Summer Seale  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:29:12pm

This is mind-blowing. I can't believe that this isn't the front page news right now. An ex-President, darling of the Left, suddenly comes out and says that the Civil War was a bad idea, given the benefits of it a century and a half later?

I'm blown away.

591 Zimriel  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:29:13pm

re: #576 Dianna

What the hell?!

In what book has David Weber presented a contrafactual scenario?

As to John Ringo - again, what?! Where, in which book?

Weber did "1633". Ringo (not the beatle) has "Watch on the Rhine". yay Google!

592 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:29:37pm

re: #588 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Seriously, I know only enough about that book to know that I don't want to know what it's about.

It's actually not as bad as some people make it out to be. I found the movie to be better though.

593 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:30:49pm

re: #584 Zimriel

By not wasting money on Crusade and (especially) on King Richard's ransom; and then hanging, drawing, and quartering any remaining mutinous barons.

How Jesus ...

*biting tongue*

By telling him he was NOT the Messiah, he was a very naughty boy.

(On the troll scale, how was the above?) :^)

*genuflecting*
Thou art the gamiest of the gamey!
*grin*

594 Yashmak  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:30:53pm

re: #26 SaracensAtTheGates

Because the American Civil War was not about slavery, doyathink? What a dolt.

Indeed. The Civil War was an inevitability, given the industrial vs. agricultural disparity between the states at the time. There was certain to be a conflict over the extent of states' power, vs.the extent of federal power. It might have been possible to avoid a conflict as massive as the Civil War was, but some sort of conflict was a virtual certainty.

595 turn  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:31:14pm

re: #587 Dianna

It was something with his liver, no?

596 godfrey  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:31:25pm

re: #493 rawmuse

Just as our own Star Spangled Banner had its beginnings as a bawdy saloon song.

Say, I can see several things by the dawn's early light!

597 [deleted]  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:31:35pm
598 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:32:07pm

re: #585 NY Nana

Re Jimmy the Jew hater?

[Deleted] [deleted] [deleted] [deleted] [deleted] [deleted] and also [deleted].

Doesn't look like you dealt with [deleted].
How about THAT one, Nana?

599 Dianna  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:32:12pm

re: #591 Zimriel

Weber did "1633". Ringo (not the beatle) has "Watch on the Rhine". yay Google!

No.

1633 is Eric (the red) Flint.

Ringo's Watch on the Rhine is a Posleen/Legacy of the Aldenata book.

You are incorrect.

600 NY Nana  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:32:16pm

re: #577 turn

Spot-on.

601 Dianna  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:32:53pm

re: #595 turn

It was something with his liver, no?

Yes.

Excuse me while I chase Zimriel around and demand an apology on David Weber's and John Ringo's and Tom Kratmann's behalf!

602 Gus  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:35:01pm

re: #600 NY Nana

Spot-on.


[Video]

Obamajugend

603 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:35:39pm

re: #592 Honorary Yooper

It's actually not as bad as some people make it out to be. I found the movie to be better though.

Perhaps -- I'll grant that you're right.
What put me seriously off was a flagrant fragrant smell of "stylishness".

/PIMF ... heh

604 godfrey  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:35:42pm

re: #597 Iron Fist

For me, what grates is his taking money from the Saudis and then hobbling around in a halo, as if he were some kind of saint. I respect older people in general and am always polite no matter what the circumstances, but Jimmy Carter rubs my respect in the dirt. He is a nasty, addled old man. The only satisfaction in his spectacle is that he probably doesn't realize the full extent to which he is being used. And never has.

605 Hengineer  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:35:44pm

What annoys the hell out of me about most slavery-haters is they are very America-hating in their slavery hating. You notice they never acknowledge the OTHER nations that were in on the slave trade, the OTHER times in history where slaves were involved, nor the fact that the African slaves were most often captured and sold into slaver by other African tribes.

You see this especially with black people who talk about it at all. I have a few coworkers who I enjoy hanging out with, yet still act as if only the American White man had anything to do with their descendant's slavery.

606 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:35:55pm

re: #259 outsidephilly

We dealt with that when my grandson submitted his 'community hours'.
The school did not 'suggest' the program he completed.
The program my grandson completed is as a Junior Fire Fighter, which, I might add, is an ongoing program for him.

Our school (private) has an ongoing community service requirement, and a couple of our kids do JFF work. It's very cool stuff.

607 Eowyn2  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:36:18pm

re: #441 NYCHardhat

N. Korea "interrogating" U.S. journalists.

were at a guesthouse in Pyongyang's outskirts run by North Korean military intelligence

608 [deleted]  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:37:22pm
609 Zimriel  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:37:32pm

Dianna, okay, okay, I can't immediately come up with a whole book of alt-hist by Ringo. I wonder where I got the idea that he wrote an alternative history...

But 1633 was co-written by Weber. On the Wiki entry Weber's name is at the top.

610 godfrey  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:37:37pm

re: #605 Hengineer

Yes. The Europeans had the ships and routes. I've read that very few if any of them did a lot of in-country enslaving. They left that to native Africans, who knew the country, had tribal grudges, etc.

611 Gus  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:38:27pm

re: #608 buzzsawmonkey

BTW, it is interesting that Carter is dumping on the Civil War--and, thereby, Lincoln--given that Lincoln was the absolute darling of the Left a mere 60-70 years ago. That's why the Communists called their American contingent to the Spanish Civil War the "Abraham Lincoln Brigade."

Lincoln was the Emancipator; admiration and praise of him was the Communists' entree into gaining a foothold into the (overwhelmingly Republican) black community.

Interesting to see Lincoln being tossed under the bus, so to speak, with the ascension of the Historic First Black President.

And had a conservative made this criticism...

612 godfrey  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:38:38pm

re: #608 buzzsawmonkey

The Left is clearing the underbrush. They will write history to show that Obama is the 'New Lincoln.' It's their version of replacement theology. Leftist supremacism.

613 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:39:18pm

jimmy carter: "the patron saint of islamofascism" has no moral authority to determine what is or is not "Christian" behavior.

614 Tamron  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:39:34pm

Hmmm. If Carter was the most disgraceful former President, then who wins the title of most disgraceful SITTING President?
.

615 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:39:36pm

bbl

616 NY Nana  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:41:15pm

re: #598 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Doesn't look like you dealt with [deleted].
How about THAT one, Nana?

Damn. Memory is the first thing to go! [Deleted!]

Any better? ;)

617 Eowyn2  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:41:36pm

I'm gonna get some work done now.

Hitler started with just a few well placed volunteers and after watching vivid footage of a half dozen concentration camps with NO 'dramatization' I can only say "no man (or woman) should be allowed so much power - ever.

618 Dianna  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:42:12pm

re: #609 Zimriel

Dianna, okay, okay, I can't immediately come up with a whole book of alt-hist by Ringo. I wonder where I got the idea that he wrote an alternative history...

But 1633 was co-written by Weber. On the Wiki entry Weber's name is at the top.

Weber didn't plot it, Flint did. And - of all the Grantville books, it's the only one I bothered to keep.

It's got a lot of naval stuff in it, and it's not about "avoiding a war", it's about what happens to history when everyone gets the 1911 Encyclopedia Brittanica.

Read the freakin' books. Don't rely on Google or Wiki.

Both John Ringo and David Weber have been guests in my home, and I must protest how you are characterizing them.

619 Hengineer  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:42:14pm

re: #610 godfrey

Yes. The Europeans had the ships and routes. I've read that very few if any of them did a lot of in-country enslaving. They left that to native Africans, who knew the country, had tribal grudges, etc.

Not to mention that the Egyptians, Persians, and possibly Romans/Italians probably hold the record for the most amount of slaves held in history anyway.

620 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:42:53pm

Your text to link...re: #311 Taqiyyotomist

What's despicable is that we've forgotten to teach our kids about Hitler Jugend and the events that led to the Shoah. Despicable is that we've tolerated the watering-down, mixing up, rewriting, and even Stalinist erasure of history in our schools. Despicable is we can't even teach our kids about Israel in schools, since the most accurate history book ever written for a nation of people in that time period is also a religous book, and we've, despicably, decided that we, out of some twisted sense of fairness to all the religions of the world, must never teach that ANYTHING AT ALL in that book ever happened. There was no David. There were no Maccabeans. Palestine existed for all time then Jews came in the 40's and stole it all from them.

Screw our schools. They've screwed us. Perhaps irrevocably.

I don't know where you are, but California's sixth grade Ancient World standards include a unit on the history of Israel, beginning with Abraham, and going through to the Romans.

6.3 Students analyze the geographic, political, economic, religious, and social structures of the Ancient Hebrews.

1.Describe the origins and significance of Judaism as the first monotheistic religion based on the concept of one God who sets down moral laws for humanity.

2.Identify the sources of the ethical teachings and central beliefs of Judaism (the Hebrew Bible, the Commentaries): belief in God, observance of law, practice of the concepts of righteousness and justice, and importance of study; and describe how the ideas of the Hebrew traditions are reflected in the moral and ethical traditions of Western civilization.

3.Explain the significance of Abraham, Moses, Naomi, Ruth, David, and Yohanan ben Zaccai in the development of the Jewish religion.

4.Discuss the locations of the settlements and movements of Hebrew peoples, including the Exodus and their movement to and from Egypt, and outline the significance of the Exodus to the Jewish and other people.

5.Discuss how Judaism survived and developed despite the continuing dispersion of much of the Jewish population from Jerusalem and the rest of Israel after the destruction of the second Temple in A.D. 70.

621 [deleted]  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:43:11pm
622 Noam Chumpski  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:43:29pm

Yes, if only carter had been on the scene to use his awesome diplomatic powers then so many could have been spared.

God bless you, Jimmy, for your bravery at pointing out the incredible role you could have played now that there is no possibility of your abstract assertions being proven wrong.

Courage, thy name is Jimmy.

/I live within a stone's throw of the Carter Center... did I say a "stone's" throw? That's a funny thought...

623 StillAMarine  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:46:05pm

re: #591 Zimriel

Yeah, I remember Weber's "1633." Pretty good read. He did a sequel as well, didn't he? Anyone remember the title?

In my opinion, Turtledove has a fairly realistic view of history.

624 jsulman  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:46:28pm

From what I've read Lincoln was not an abolitionist. At the time of his election the only political move against slavery he wanted to take was to prevent new states from becoming slave states. I'm not an expert on this time period but that is what I remember reading?

The hot heads of the south believed he was and therefor succeeded from the union.

See this site for more info.
[Link: www.historynow.org...]

625 [deleted]  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:47:31pm
626 Hengineer  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:48:18pm

re: #624 jsulman

From what I've read Lincoln was not an abolitionist. At the time of his election the only political move against slavery he wanted to take was to prevent new states from becoming slave states. I'm not an expert on this time period but that is what I remember reading?

The hot heads of the south believed he was and therefor succeeded from the union.

See this site for more info.
[Link: www.historynow.org...]

From what I remember about the Emancipation Proclomation, he only freed slaves in the current slave states. He made no mention about slaves in the Northern states.

ALSO, he did say that if he could win the war without freeing the slaves, he would do it, if he could win the war by freeing the slaves he would do it.

627 Dianna  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:48:27pm

re: #621 Iron Fist

Agreed!

Tell Zimriel.

628 Dianna  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:49:23pm

re: #623 StillAMarine

Yeah, I remember Weber's "1633." Pretty good read. He did a sequel as well, didn't he? Anyone remember the title?

In my opinion, Turtledove has a fairly realistic view of history.

Weber is working with Flint on the Grantville/Ring of Fire books.

Most of the others are Flint and DeMarce.

629 StillAMarine  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:50:25pm

re: #624 jsulman

From what I've read Lincoln was not an abolitionist. At the time of his election the only political move against slavery he wanted to take was to prevent new states from becoming slave states. I'm not an expert on this time period but that is what I remember reading?

The hot heads of the south believed he was and therefor succeeded from the union.

See this site for more info.
[Link: www.historynow.org...]

Correct. Even after the war, Lincoln considered sending the freed slaves who survived the starvation back to Africa. I guess the logistics proved to be rather daunting and he gave up the idea.

630 Achilles Tang  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:51:07pm

re: #565 Iron Fist

Yes. In the north there was the concept of indentured labor, many immigrants paid their way by agreeing to that. Still happens down by the border.

People will be people...//

631 rawmuse  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:51:23pm

The War Between the States was an unmitigated disaster, and caused suffering on an unimagined level. It was the first truly mechanized war, the kind of thing where it was not uncommon for ten thousand young men to die in an afternoon. A war where almost any wound was mortal, where modern medicine was still 40 years away, and where civilians and their property were targeted by the military commanders (a very unfortunate precedent). Having studied it privately, I often wonder if it could have been avoided. The repercussions of that war resound through our society to this very day.

632 soxfan4life  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:51:46pm

re: #624 jsulman

From what I've read Lincoln was not an abolitionist. At the time of his election the only political move against slavery he wanted to take was to prevent new states from becoming slave states. I'm not an expert on this time period but that is what I remember reading?

The hot heads of the south believed he was and therefor succeeded from the union.

See this site for more info.
[Link: www.historynow.org...]


If Lincoln was around today, he would stand for pretty much every thing the left despises. The only reason he got involved in the Civil War was preservation of the Union, it had nothing to do with freeing slaves. He imprisoned those who disagreed with him and suspended habeus corpus. Truly more despicable than Bush could ever be.

633 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:52:08pm

re: #562 Dianna

That's why I said, "John Brown's movement and the raid."

Brown was, without a doubt, a terrorist. He was, as you said, probably quite mad.

Fascinating man. Absolutely insane.

634 Hengineer  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:54:05pm

Lincoln, more than any other President in American History
(Including George Bush) increased the power of the Federal Government and the office of the President itself.

635 NY Nana  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:54:26pm

re: #602 Gus 802

Obamajugend

There are just too many eerie similarities, but as far as Hussein goes, I cannot see that he would be anything like *itler(may his name and memory be obliterated), as much as I detest him. He is more of a lefty socialist, with no real ability to be President of a casino, even.

It reminds me of a company founded by a father, and handed down to his vapid son, who got into the Ivies because of the family name, and being a 'legacy'...a kid who did dope, etc., and never really had to work at a job, with everything handed to him.

In the real world? The company would go bust. Here? We are dealing with The One, and he is doing everything he can to destroy what the Revolutionary War created: our free country and our freedom.

I have never been so afraid of a president...BTW, I refuse to actually call Hussein that...in my 71 years, but worst of all, is what he is doing to our kids, grandkids and their future. he has to go. We cannot afford having the Manchurian Candidate in the Oval Office.

Biden is a joke, but there is nothing funny about Hussein.

636 CLLRusso  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:55:25pm

Excuse please! While I am a Carter hater, I need to find out how many rockets, etc., Hamas has shot into Israel since the "end" of Cast Lead so that I can write that to my local newspaper, that is supposedly more conservative than others, published a photo of a man identified as an Israel Soldier, that just graduated from sniper school, wearing a tee shirt
that read something to the effect "two for one", in the cross hairs is a pregnant Arab woman. Yet they never publish even one story on the continued assault on southern Israel and Israeli communities neighboring Gaza. So if anyone knows, let me know! I am really miffed! HELP!

637 Barb42  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:56:30pm

re: #626 Hengineer

From what I remember about the Emancipation Proclomation, he only freed slaves in the current slave states. He made no mention about slaves in the Northern states.

ALSO, he did say that if he could win the war without freeing the slaves, he would do it, if he could win the war by freeing the slaves he would do it.

If you read deeper, you will find that LIncoln did not have the Constitutional right to free slave outside of 'rebel' territory. He put his foot in the door - not only to undermine the Confederacy, but to begin the process that would end in full emancipation. Presidents can't do anything they want, although Lincoln pushed the limits more than most until FDR came along.

638 Gretchen  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:56:39pm

We really are now officially living in Bizarro World. Jimmy Carter criticizing any other president, much less Lincoln.

You know, I'm sure if Lincoln just nicely asked all the slaveholders to free their slaves they would have said, "Sure, Abe, how much land should we give them? Oh and by the way, we'll be passing out free health insurance cards (even though it hasn't been invented), pay for University tuition and move into the horrid old slave hovels they currently live in and let them have Tara. In fact, some of our daughters need husbands so maybe we can marry them off to our former slaves if they'll have them. Thanks so much for the reminder that we are Christians, surely we slipped up Abe."

639 Hengineer  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:57:32pm

re: #637 Barb42

If you read deeper, you will find that LIncoln did not have the Constitutional right to free slave outside of 'rebel' territory. He put his foot in the door - not only to undermine the Confederacy, but to begin the process that would end in full emancipation. Presidents can't do anything they want, although Lincoln pushed the limits more than most until FDR came along.

I'm not saying he was an evil man, just more of a pragmatist than people realize.

640 Colonel Panik  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:58:22pm

re: #33 dmh0667

I'm sorry, when was it ever "Southern-style" to call the American Civil War this? I always thought it was "The War of Northern Aggression"?

My Southern relatives always referred to it as "the late unpleasantness".

641 jsulman  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:58:51pm

re: #626 Hengineer

Good point! I've always seen the Emancipation Proclamation as a result of Lincoln gaining a greater degree of moral clarity as the war progressed as well as a slap in the face to the south by telling them their slaves were free. Lincolns main goal in the civil war was the preservation of the union, not the abolition slavery. I'm not saying slavery was not a important catalyst that brought about the civil war but the main goal was preservation of the union. I think this may be the quote you are referring to;

My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause."
The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume V, "Letter to Horace Greeley" (August 22, 1862), p. 388.

642 Querent  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:59:06pm

Yooper!

thanks for the upding.

(for all i know, it may be my first -- but at least i now have some karma! Cupcakes all around!)

643 Hengineer  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 1:02:00pm

re: #641 jsulman

Good point! I've always seen the Emancipation Proclamation as a result of Lincoln gaining a greater degree of moral clarity as the war progressed as well as a slap in the face to the south by telling them their slaves were free. Lincolns main goal in the civil war was the preservation of the union, not the abolition slavery. I'm not saying slavery was not a important catalyst that brought about the civil war but the main goal was preservation of the union. I think this may be the quote you are referring to;

Upding for the Lincoln quote.

644 Hengineer  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 1:03:32pm

re: #642 Querent

Yooper!

thanks for the upding.

(for all i know, it may be my first -- but at least i now have some karma! Cupcakes all around!)

Cupcake party for gettin some positive karma!

645 The_Vig  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 1:04:33pm

Could slavery have been ended without the civil war?

Have you ever tried to talk a Southerner out of anything?

646 Joel  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 1:05:56pm

What was unnecessary is that that assholeCarter is still mouthing off.

647 Hengineer  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 1:06:12pm

re: #645 The_Vig

Could slavery have been ended without the civil war?

Have you ever tried to talk a Southerner out of anything?

Exactly, even if they would have wanted to buy every single slave from their owners, nobody can MAKE them sell their slaves, especially with state's rights in the way.

648 Gretchen  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 1:06:22pm

Does Jimma have an idea how to stop the next Civil War?

649 jimc  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 1:06:30pm

re: #5 reine.de.tout

Was Carter always this crazy, or has he gotten crazier with age?

I think he's simply losing any little bit of self-control he ever had...

650 Hengineer  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 1:07:52pm

Maybe he just has an evergrowing need to stay in the spotlight.

651 jsulman  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 1:08:22pm

re: #645 The_Vig

Could slavery have been ended without the civil war?

Have you ever tried to talk a Southerner out of anything?

Yea I have. I married one...it can be done, but it takes a war!

652 John  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 1:08:45pm

What possible difference does it make now whether the Civil War was Christian or necessary since it happened, and is a fact? All I can imagine is that Jimmah wants to make some idiotic point about today's world and how superior he thinks he is.

653 jimc  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 1:13:43pm

I have to say, Carter makes Clinton look like a genius....how stupid do you have to be to criticize Abraham Lincoln? Jimmy, do you know what I find troubling? Ex-Presidents siding with known terrorists against Israel...that's troubling....

654 DisturbedEma  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 1:16:12pm

re: #653 jimc

I have to say, Carter makes Clinton look like a genius....how stupid do you have to be to criticize Abraham Lincoln? Jimmy, do you know what I find troubling? Ex-Presidents siding with known terrorists against Israel...that's troubling....

Here here!

655 DisturbedEma  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 1:18:04pm

re: #640 Colonel Panik

My Southern relatives always referred to it as "the late unpleasantness".

my sister in law calls her OTHER sister in law. . .a carpetbagger. . .long story, but it fit the scope and use of the term then. . .

656 Zimriel  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 1:23:20pm

re: #632 soxfan4life

If Lincoln was around today, he would stand for pretty much every thing the left despises. The only reason he got involved in the Civil War was preservation of the Union, it had nothing to do with freeing slaves. He imprisoned those who disagreed with him and suspended habeus corpus. Truly more despicable than Bush could ever be.

Re, "imprisoned those who disagreed": name a few.

657 jsulman  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 1:23:47pm
my sister in law calls her OTHER sister in law. . .a carpetbagger. . .long story, but it fit the scope and use of the term then. . .

My wife's father's side of the family was driven from Alabama by Sherman to west Texas almost 140 years before I met them and they were still mad about it! Needless to say much of their frustration was taken out on me during the first month or so of our courtship, until I bluntly reminded them that they lost the war. It took most of the wind out of their sales but 15 years later they still make snide comments about it.

658 The False God  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 1:26:03pm

It's kind of weird. People talk about the "Civil War" like it was a good thing, in the end. It wasn't. It was a horrible choice that every side in the conflict made to take part in it. The "end of slavery" didn't occur because of the war. The impoverishment it caused in the South relegated blacks to a same or lesser standard of living than they had before the war occurred. The hatred that built during and in the wake of it set back civil rights by decades, both in the South and in the North. Blacks, freed and slaves, fought on the side of the South against the North for principles that weren't about slavery. The issue of slavery was soon to become moot, anyway, as it was unprofitable to keep slaves in light of the rise of technological equipment such as the cotton gin. Instead of letting it fade away without bloodshed and via cultural forces, it was chosen as an excuse for a war that was already well under way.

It completely trashed state rights to the point that every state was just a de facto hydra head of the Federal Government as a whole. The "cause" of the Civil War that is so often attributed to slavery was in fact almost as much attributable to Northern market forces, industrialists who wanted to keep the South from making deals with factories and businesses in Europe for sale of Southern resources and the buying of produced goods. Someone says that the contract of the states who are a part of the Union was "immutable," but this was never a truth until Lincoln went to war over it. If that's true, then we have no right to oppose our government in any other way besides the "avenue of law and representation," no matter how bad things get. Never more can we take up arms to protect ourselves from imminent oppression and tyranny, lest we break our contract as "citizens" of that said tyranny. Well, it can be said that "might made right" with Lincoln and his theory about the immutability of the states of the Union. He certainly saw enough people killed to bind the entire nation to the idea.

And it's always overlooked just what the North did during and after the war. They ruined the South, not by "freeing slaves," but by destroying cities and allowing government-approved looters to screw around with the economy of the South. They punitively broke the back of the region, and it took a long time for that to recover. The South would have been content with pushing the North out and seceding, but the North had to prove its claim by utter subjugation.

Altogether, the South gets a bad rap for the entire war, as if it were only the South's fault, that the North was in the total right and Lincoln was the shining hero of the nation, as if there were no men of good conscience fighting on the side of the South for ideals that many people still say they believe in today...

It was a horrible error made by everyone involved, but to say the South was just "wrong" is the ultimate negation of every important facet of the war. It's the kind of statement made by people that think they were the "victors" in a struggle that countrymen, true brothers in spirit if not conviction for the time, killed each other in.

659 shaker  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 1:27:59pm

From America's greatest president to America's worst president.

660 [deleted]  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 1:34:32pm
661 odorlesspaintthinner  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 1:35:09pm

“A legitimate question for historians is how soon the blight of slavery would have been terminated peacefully in America, as in Great Britain and other civilized societies.”

Other legitimate questions for historians:

What if England won the Revolutionary War?
What if Julius Caesar had listened to the blind man?
What if the dinosaurs had space ships?

Or the question he'd really like to ask:

What if the Arabs had beaten the Jews in 1948?
(Answer: There'd be no Palestine, it would all be Jordan, and there would be no one wanting "right of return" to a place barren as the moon.)

662 jsulman  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 1:35:10pm

re: #658 The False God

I think you are right TFG. But I do think things would have been somewhat different had Lincoln lived, at least the way the south was treated which would have had many positive repercussions. Lincoln always promised to treat our brothers in the south with compassion after the war. I wish he would have lived to do so, those who followed him did not.

The last line of his second inaugural address was:

"With malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in, to bind up the nation's wounds, to care for him who shall have borne the battle and for his widow and his orphan, to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace among ourselves and with all nations."

663 HDrepub  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 1:35:20pm

re: #658 The False God

While it was true that the cotton gin reduced the labor of removing seeds, it did not reduce the need for slaves to grow and pick the cotton. In fact, the opposite occurred. Cotton growing became so profitable for the planters that it greatly increased their demand for both land and slave labor. In 1790 there were six slave states; in 1860 there were 15.
Eli Whitney Museum and Workshop

664 ssn697  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 1:36:16pm

re: #5 reine.de.tout

Having been in high school for the Carter era, I THINK he just sucked back then. Maybe time has revealed him to have been crazy all along?

665 Tamron  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 1:38:25pm

re: #658 The False God

Altogether, the South gets a bad rap for the entire war, as if it were only the South's fault, that the North was in the total right and Lincoln was the shining hero of the nation, as if there were no men of good conscience fighting on the side of the South for ideals that many people still say they believe in today...


I forget where I saw it, but I once read that the South had developed a surprisingly well-equipped and well-trained army, before hostilities broke out.

Who funded this, and set up the military training? Anyone have any references on books to read, etc?
.

666 Zimriel  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 1:39:07pm

re: #658 The False God

And it's always overlooked just what the North did during and after the war. They ruined the South, not by "freeing slaves," but by destroying cities and allowing government-approved looters to screw around with the economy of the South. They punitively broke the back of the region, and it took a long time for that to recover. The South would have been content with pushing the North out and seceding, but the North had to prove its claim by utter subjugation.

This is true. Contemporary observations have survived from 1875. Here's Charles Nordhoff. The corruption in the Reconstruction South was endemic, and at least as crippling as the war was (who wants to invest in a crooked enterprise?). Northern historians poo-poo 1870s complaints by saying "they're only upset that whites weren't the beneficiaries this time", and there's certainly an element of that, but excusing corruption by the everybody-does-it cop-out ought to be treated with the contempt such arguments get elsewhere.

667 [deleted]  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 1:39:26pm
668 Emerald  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 1:40:56pm

What happened to this guy? He graduated from the Naval Academy, so at one point he had actual working brain cells. You'd never know it by the way he's behaved since then. Is he so bitter at being a failure as president that it's completely twisted his mind? Or did Billy bounce a few too many beer cans off Jimmy's head?

669 MHatch  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 1:41:31pm

You know now that I think about it the use of a whip by Jesus to drive the money changers out of the temple was probably a little excessive also. I am sure they would have left eventually. Like maybe before the Romans destroyed it.

670 HDrepub  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 1:43:38pm

re: #667 Iron Fist

More to the point, has Carter ever done anything to make you suspect he's not been this crazy all along? I can't think of a damned thing that he did right. Except for being scared of the attack rabbit. Everyone fears killer bunnies.

The killer bunny in Carter's case was most likely a swamp rabbit or cane cutter as they are sometimes called. This species is much larger than the cottontails and are excellent swimmers. I still can't see why Jimmah was so frightened by it.

671 hous bin pharteen  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 1:45:03pm

He was allot less frightening than our current Commander and Thief. People always tell me how many Jews Hitler killed, but don't mention the left wing nut case, Stalin. They don't mention how many he killed. [Link: www.globalfire.tv...]

And who is the Communist and Chief making happy with? Iran and the Muslim world, like they want to party with Jewish people. Who does Iran want to wipe off the earth? African-Americans have taken to Islam more than anyone will mention. And how many wars has Israel gotten in to through the years. And Carters brother was partying down in the lovely Libya.

Nothing to see here. Move along.

672 The False God  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 1:48:38pm

re: #663 HDrepub

You overlook the fact that the war itself prevented the full acceptance of mechanical pickers, which were at that time starting to become viable. Seeing as the separating of seeds and cotton was the large part, picking the second most intensive part, and planting the least intensive, the large amount of slaves and costs of keeping them would've soon become completely unnecessary in comparison to freeing them and hiring them on at, for the time, would've been dirt-poor wages.

However dirt-poor they would've been, it still wouldn't have been any different than Northern factory workers, however, such as the Irish, who were discriminated against almost as much as the blacks were.

It's like saying that the horrible technology and work standards of the time excuse declaring war on Southern landowners, but not on Northern factory owners, who treated their workers, for many instances, worse than Southern landowners treated their slaves.

It was a screwed up war that should've never happened. Nobody profited. The entire nation suffered. In fact, I blame much of the suffering of today's Federal dragon squarely on Lincoln's policies. As good as the man was, and as clear as his sight was in how he wanted to preserve and reconcile the nation, he is the most obvious start for the Federal government's unstoppable growth.

I'm liable to slap the next person I hear saying that the "North won the war, so the South should get over it" though. Try saying that in any other country where a civil war has occurred. Try glossing over history that easily in those places, and you won't be appreciated very well.

673 The False God  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 1:51:34pm

re: #672 The False God

That was much more vile than I wanted it to be. Please take it with a grain of salt. I just get very agitated at revisionism and glossing over of things. I think Lincoln was a great president, even if I think he was wrong about some things.

In contrast to Carter, at least Lincoln was a brilliant and very responsible person. Lincoln's health was so poor in part because he shouldered a huge burden and respected it so much. The fact that he was assassinated was an enormous tragedy that can be laid on at the step of people who probably did profit from the war.

674 kansas  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 1:52:22pm

The purpose of the Civil War was to prevent secession. Slavery was just the issue used to justify it. And I'll go ahead and down ding myself.

675 FredWM  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 1:55:39pm

Actually, the Republican position at the start of the war was simply to prevent slavery from expanding into the territories. Everyone, on both sides of the question, agreed that without new territory to expand into slavery would die out in a generation or two. Throughout the war Lincoln floated the idea of compensated emancipation a number of times, but it was always turned down. It was even turned down at the Hampton Roads peace convention in early 1865. The Union offer at that time was extremely generous. In fact, it was more generous than the Confederate cabinet though was even possible. Jefferson Davis however made sure that it was not accepted. So, as it takes 2 sides to make peace what exactly should have been done that was not done?

676 Killer Tomato  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 1:58:46pm

re: #666 Zimriel

Thank you! I've been trying to find something about Reconstruction that wasn't written by Eric Foner.

677 hous bin pharteen  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 2:00:13pm

re: #668 Emerald

He was an asshole then. We pretty much figured on the USSR invading West Germany through the Fulda Gap. The US Army was trying to determined if they could hold them off until more US divisions could be sent by ship and the reserves called up to get up to snuff and sent in after the regular troops. Thank God Reagan came along. But the libs were complete ignorant ass holes then as they are now.

678 quickjustice  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 2:00:27pm

Adding to his disgraceful legacy, President Jimmy Carter demonstrates his profound ignorance of President Abraham Lincoln and his policies on slavery. Lincoln's first political position was that the slaves should be freed, and the slaveholders compensated for loss of their "property" even if it took one hundred years to accomplish this.

By suggesting the Lincoln's first resort was to war (it was in fact a last resort, and South Carolina fired the first shots at Ft. Sumpter), Jimmy Carter adds to the pack of lies, ignorance, and calumny with which he has disgraced himself since ascending to the office of the Presidency.

It remains to be seen whether President Obama will ascend to this level of calumny.

679 maximus kreyzlkil  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 2:01:05pm

The civil war was a horrible tragedy. It should never have happened.

We had people on both sides who deeply hated one another.

Generationally, we are similarly configured to then. We have an elder class of boomers taking over from the GI generation, who's reputation for true believerism, fanatacism and uncompromising zealotry both on the left and the right match those of the "transendentals" of that era. "Destructive Generation". We are truely approaching a crisis the likes we have no capacity to imagine. I have no doubt the response of this generation will directly lead to the most tragic outcome.

680 [deleted]  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 2:02:56pm
681 quickjustice  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 2:04:30pm

re: #641 jsulman

The Emancipation Proclamation serve three important and practical political purposes:

1. It kept England out of the war as a Southern ally by seizing the moral high ground on the issue of slavery. The slave trade had been banned by Parliament decades earlier after a fierce debate, and the British Navy deployed to stop slavers.

2. It caused economic damage to the Southern economy by depriving it of its primary labor force.

3. The freed slaves joined the Union Army in large numbers, bolstering recruitment, and overwhelming the dwindling Southern armies.

682 The False God  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 2:05:04pm

re: #680 ploome hineni

Most slave traders were Arab or black, themselves. This is widely known. It doesn't make American/European slavery any less offensive, it just makes it that much more depressing that so many people were willing to force others into slavery for profit, even from neighboring tribes.

683 [deleted]  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 2:05:39pm
684 traderjoe9  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 2:07:26pm

Did he by any chance blame the Civil War on the Jews?

685 quickjustice  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 2:07:54pm

re: #674 kansas

Slavery became a more and more important issue as the war progressed. By the time of Lincoln's Second Inaugural speech, ending slavery had grown in stature to the primary justification for the war.

686 Zimriel  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 2:08:31pm

re: #682 The False God

Most slave traders were Arab or black, themselves. This is widely known. It doesn't make American/European slavery any less offensive, it just makes it that much more depressing that so many people were willing to force others into slavery for profit, even from neighboring tribes.

Most of the slaves were also taken from Africa, to cut sugar cane in Iraq. The racism to justify it stems from this time, as Goldenberg documents in "Curse of Ham".

687 quickjustice  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 2:09:43pm

re: #684 traderjoe9

Prominent Jews served in the Confederate government, and were slaveholders. I don't know the comparable history of Jewish participation in the Northern cause, but I have no doubt that it exists.

688 Voyska PVO  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 2:12:56pm

Jimmah: that old, senile uncle who comes to Thanksgiving Dinner, sits in the corner murmuring licentious comments about his younger, nubile relatives (both mail and female), and gums his zwiebach.

We used to say of him that Rosalind Carter must like being on top during intercourse because, Jimmah's always screwing up.

And, man, did he have a penchant for pointing out how goofy those good ol' wacky joooooooz were.

Now that he is dead (from the neck up), I sure do miss him!

689 Zimriel  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 2:15:47pm

re: #687 quickjustice

Prominent Jews served in the Confederate government, and were slaveholders. I don't know the comparable history of Jewish participation in the Northern cause, but I have no doubt that it exists.

Sephardic, from the Caribbean, perhaps? I know that when the Spanish kicked them out, they took to piracy and looting Spanish ships. (Not that any patriotic Brit has a problem with that.) I'm not sure how far they got into the triangle trade though. If they were based in Morocco, wouldn't Maliki fiqh ban them from taking or selling slaves (even Christian or African pagan slaves)?

690 Ann NY  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 2:16:18pm

re: #340 The_Vig

Some would say that the south fought the war to defend their tradition. Which is one of the reasons that I cringe when O'reily or anyone else calls themselves traditionalists.

That's one of the reasons I hate the label conservative. Not only does it conjure up images of stodgy old guys in bad fitting gray suits; it also has other bad connotations such as a slave owner in the south would have been a conservative.

691 Zimriel  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 2:16:30pm

re: #689 Zimriel

If they were based in Morocco, wouldn't Maliki fiqh ban them from taking or selling slaves (even Christian or African pagan slaves)?

9Yes, I know, Jews are not bound by Muslim law, but somehow that never seems to stop Muslim authorities from applying it)

692 gregb  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 2:21:06pm

Very troubling is that slavery might not have ended at all in Britain if it had not been for the war. What a simple, senile world he lives in if not to realize that everything is deeply intertwingled.

693 quickjustice  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 2:22:25pm

Here's an excerpt from Lincoln's own Second Inaugural Address, perhaps his greatest speech after the Gettysburg Address: [Link: usgovinfo.about.com...]

"On the occasion corresponding to this four years ago [Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861], all thoughts were anxiously directed to an impending civil-war. All dreaded it -- all sought to avert it. While the inaugural address was being delivered from this place, devoted altogether to saving the Union without war, insurgent agents were in the city seeking to destroy it without war -- seeking to dissolve the Union, and divide effects, by negotiation. Both parties deprecated war; but one of them would make war rather than let the nation survive; and the other would accept war rather than let it perish. And the war came.

One eighth of the whole population were colored slaves, not distributed generally over the Union, but localized in the Southern part of it. These slaves constituted a peculiar and powerful interest. All knew that this interest was, somehow, the cause of the war. To strengthen, perpetuate, and extend this interest was the object for which the insurgents would rend the Union, even by war; while the Government claimed no right to do more than to restrict the territorial enlargement of it. Neither party expected for the war, the magnitude, or the duration, which it has already attained. Neither anticipated that the cause of the conflict might cease with, or even before, the conflict itself should cease. Each looked for an easier triumph, and a result less fundamental and astounding. Both read the same Bible, and pray to the same God; and each invokes His aid against the other. It may seem strange that any men should dare to ask a just God's assistance in wringing their bread from the sweat of other men's faces; but let us judge not that we be not judged. The prayers of both could not be answered; that of neither has been answered fully. The Almighty has His own purposes. "Woe unto the world because of offenses! for it must needs be that offenses come; but woe to that man by whom the offense cometh!" If we shall suppose that American Slavery is one of those offenses which, in the providence of God, must needs come, but which, having continued through His appointed time, He now wills to remove, and that He gives to both North and South, this terrible war, as the woe due to those by whom the offense came, shall we discern therein any departure from those divine attributes which the believers in a Living God always ascribe to Him? Fondly do we hope -- fervently do we pray -- that this mighty scourge of war may speedily pass away. Yet, if God wills that it continue, until all the wealth piled by the bond-man's two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash, shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three thousand years ago, so still it must be said "the judgments of the Lord, are true and righteous altogether."

With malice toward none; with charity for all; with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in; to bind up the nation's wounds; to care for him who shall have borne the battle, and for his widow, and his orphan -- to do all which may achieve and cherish a just, and a lasting peace, among ourselves, and with all nations."

694 SunshineGirl  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 2:24:25pm

Carter is SUCH a 'nut case'-- doesn't he realize, that without the civil war, and the resulting unification of the states, that there would not have been any need for a 'president of the united states'? Oh, then he's still be an unemployed peanut farmer from Georgia... imagine that!

695 tai-pan  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 2:26:59pm

My Troofer cousin says any war is un-Christian...he frustrates me so much.

696 kansas  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 2:31:52pm

re: #685 quickjustice

Slavery became a more and more important issue as the war progressed. By the time of Lincoln's Second Inaugural speech, ending slavery had grown in stature to the primary justification for the war.

Justification being the operative word there. I'm not seeing, for example, the seige of Vicksburg or the burning of Atlanta as having much to do per se with ending anything other than the will of the people who thought their states to be sovereign, to resist the federal government. As in, we in you lose. Sounds kind of Obamorific huh?

697 kansas  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 2:33:29pm

re: #694 SunshineGirl

Carter is SUCH a 'nut case'-- doesn't he realize, that without the civil war, and the resulting unification of the states, that there would not have been any need for a 'president of the united states'? Oh, then he's still be an unemployed peanut farmer from Georgia... imagine that!

Well, there could always have been a union of states who actually wanted to be in the union as opposed to those who were forced to do so at the point of a gun.

698 [deleted]  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 2:34:51pm
699 Zimriel  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 2:36:17pm

re: #696 kansas

Justification being the operative word there. I'm not seeing, for example, the seige of Vicksburgfirebombing of Dresden or the burning of Atlantanuking of Nagasaki as having much to do per se with ending anything other than the will of the people who thought their states to be sovereign, to resist the federal government. As in, we in you lose. Sounds kind of Obamorific huh?

In other words: war is hell, and if you start one (especially over a principle like white supremacy) then you have to prepare yourself for the consequences of losing it.

700 quickjustice  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 2:38:20pm

Here's the bre: #689 Zimriel

Great surmise! The most prominent Jew in the Confederate government was Judah Benjamin, whose biography is here:

[Link: www.ajhs.org...]

701 pupdawg  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 2:40:14pm

re: #23 dhg4

So if violence can never be justified, why does he have this strange affinity for terrorists?

Maybe because they are non-Christian freedom fighters to him or he is just crazy...I'm leaning heavily towards the latter.

702 Barb42  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 2:42:43pm

re: #697 kansas

Well, there could always have been a union of states who actually wanted to be in the union as opposed to those who were forced to do so at the point of a gun.

Well, we now know what side you would have been on - do you look good in grey?

703 quickjustice  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 2:43:12pm

re: #696 kansas

The siege of Vickburg was necessary to seize control of the Mississippi River and divide the Confederacy. (As an aside, there was, and is, a large Jewish community in Vicksburg).

Atlanta was a major Confederate supply center, population center, and staging area. Its destruction dealt a serious blow to the economy of the Confederacy, as did Sherman's "March to the Sea".

704 hous bin pharteen  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 2:47:56pm

As a northern boy, I visited many southern states, and loved them all. The people and scenery were great. As was the food. You southern folk have much to respect. The Civil War represent a place to visit and learn, not to get pissy about. You can visit Valley Forge and not get mad at the British. They are friends and allies now.

The problems now are liberal run cities. Crime and violence filled ones. Gee, i wonder why?

705 pupdawg  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 2:48:35pm

re: #5 reine.de.tout

Was Carter always this crazy, or has he gotten crazier with age?

As a native Georgian who suffered under his Governorship as well as Presidency, I can confirm he has always been crazy and will always remain crazy. The only difference today is that he exhibits a more 'experienced crazy' which equals 'crazier with age.' The man should have never been given a soap box much less a national and international podium or platfrom...but, as we know the left loves crazy because they live, work and play there.
BTW, his other half is whole crazy as well!

706 mattm  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 2:49:16pm

re: #12 fish

I wish people would stop giving this man pen, paper or microphones. Why can't he just go somewhere warm and play golf for the rest of his days?

Hell is warm.

707 pupdawg  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 2:53:54pm

re: #704 hous bin pharteen

As a northern boy, I visited many southern states, and loved them all. The people and scenery were great. As was the food. You southern folk have much to respect. The Civil War represent a place to visit and learn, not to get pissy about. You can visit Valley Forge and not get mad at the British. They are friends and allies now.

The problems now are liberal run cities. Crime and violence filled ones. Gee, i wonder why?

Totally agree and would echo your comments about the northern cities I've visited over the decades...but, too many horse and carriage tours make any city north or south more pissy...smelling...Charleston absolutely wreaks of it around the Battery! :-)

708 Leatherhelmet  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 2:55:17pm

I wonder how fast Sherman would have gone through Atlanta if Carter was governor of Georgia back then.

709 [deleted]  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 2:56:35pm
710 Cygnus  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 2:57:42pm

re: #11 albusteve

he's just fine tuning his Airport Lounge routine...no big deal

Please don't say 'airport' - I was stuck in the Houston overnight this weekend. Arrrrrgh.

711 hous bin pharteen  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 3:01:30pm

re: #707 pupate

They are pissy, but on the flip side, they are very romantic to take a lady on. Not so fun to take your friends on when you are going to a baseball or hockey game!

712 MittDoesNotCompute  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 3:03:31pm

re: #336 reine.de.tout

I just got this book, Shalom Ya'll, which is mostly photos, but some reminiscences also, about Jews in the South.

"Southern" is not just a place, it's a state of mind...

/proud Tennessean ;-P

713 Obsidiandog  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 3:09:18pm

Because slavery is such a Christian ideal...

//sarc

714 originalspin  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 3:34:22pm

The "Prince of Peace" said he comes with a sword. That is the nature of truth! Jimmy prefers peace to truth. I learned in grade school that I had to frighten the bullies to get some peace.

715 jcbunga  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 3:37:35pm

This guy is a disgrace.

As a Yankee, I've always felt the rebs were wrong. However, this crowd of punks we have in power has me rethinking the states' rights argument to the rebellion.

In other words, I see a side of the Southern Cause that I never appreciated until now. Inasmuch as the war was NOT about slavery as it was the perception of government overreaching, I have a different perspective.

Anyone else sense this?

716 jet2nc  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 3:40:55pm

One sure sign of how well a great leader or president is respected is how well he is respected for posterity.
President Lincoln is remembered, larger than life in, a great memorial in Washington DC which contains his well known speeches.
President Carter will be lucky, he can get all his "How Much I Love America" speeches to fit on a Jelly Belly Peanut flavored candy and have a 3 foot statue of Jimmy from the Peanut Hall of Fame placed in the Jimmy Carter Library.

717 maximus kreyzlkil  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 3:49:08pm

Im back in. Good!

718 maximus kreyzlkil  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 4:00:54pm

re: #683 ploome hineni
thats true too.

719 HDrepub  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 4:27:34pm

re: #672 The False God

You overlook the fact that the war itself prevented the full acceptance of mechanical pickers, which were at that time starting to become viable.

I don't know where you're getting your history of cotton farming, but there were no practical mechanical pickers until long after the gasoline driven tractor was invented. I grew up in cotton country, I've picked it by hand in the 1950s and 60s. Cotton pickers were not practical until the 1950s, although attempts had been made to make them so since 1850, and still weren't widely used then.

720 kansas  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 4:41:41pm

re: #699 Zimriel

In other words: war is hell, and if you start one (especially over a principle like white supremacy) then you have to prepare yourself for the consequences of losing it.

The war was not over "white supremacy", but nice try.

721 Clubsec  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 4:42:17pm

What if the advice of Gen. James Longstreet had been followed?
"We should have freed the slaves, then fired on Fort Sumter."
What then?

722 kansas  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 4:43:02pm

re: #703 quickjustice

The siege of Vickburg was necessary to seize control of the Mississippi River and divide the Confederacy. (As an aside, there was, and is, a large Jewish community in Vicksburg).

Atlanta was a major Confederate supply center, population center, and staging area. Its destruction dealt a serious blow to the economy of the Confederacy, as did Sherman's "March to the Sea".

And that had what to do with slavery?

723 Ruebacca  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 4:43:16pm

"War is the remedy our enemies have chosen and I say let them have plenty of it." W.T.Sherman

War was the choice of the south.

724 kansas  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 4:45:24pm

re: #723 Ruebacca

"War is the remedy our enemies have chosen and I say let them have plenty of it." W.T.ShermanGeneral Cornwallis

War was the choice of the southcolonists.

725 Ruebacca  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 4:48:23pm

re: #721 Clubsec

What if the advice of Gen. James Longstreet had been followed?
"We should have freed the slaves, then fired on Fort Sumter."
What then?

The Slave owners would have rebeled from the confederacy.

After the war B. Forrest said he whent to war to: "Keep my Niggars."

726 dekalb  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 4:52:55pm

Slavery was not unique to the South. It had existed in the northeastern states, including some New England state, and was not abolished in Pennsylvania until the 1830s. Slavery was never on the same scale in the northeast as in the South, accounting for no more than 5% of the population in states like Pennsylvania and New Jersey. When it was abolished, the slaveholders simply sold their slaves to buyers in Virginia. There was nothing humanitarian about the workings of this in the northeast. The Free Soilers and others who wanted to prevent the spread of slavery to midwestern states were driven by the desire not to compete with plantation agriculture and, in some cases, by a desire to keep blacks out of the territories. And the war was not just about slavery - tariffs were a major source of revenue for the federal government in the days before income taxes and the bulk of the tariff burden fell on the South.

727 dekalb  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 4:58:55pm

700, quickjustice
Thank you for pointing out Judah Benjamin. The Confederacy had many prominent Jews and Catholics, at a time when both groups suffered much discrimination in the North. And Confederate Gen. Stand Watie was the first Native American (Indian) General officer in either the Confederate or Union armies.

Besides Benjamin, prominent Jews were Sen. Yulee from Florida, Acting Surgeon General DeLeon, ANV Quartermaster General Myers. Prominent Catholics included Navy Sec. Mallory and Gen. Beauregard. This was not long after Republican presidential candidate Fremont had to defend himself against northern charges of being a closet Catholic, in the days when the Republicans were a sectional party.

728 dekalb  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 5:00:35pm

720 kansas
Good point. And remember the Indian allies of the Confederacy.

729 Ruebacca  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 5:01:31pm

re: #697 kansas

Well, there could always have been a union of states who actually wanted to be in the union as opposed to those who were forced to do so at the point of a gun.

The federal gov bought or won in war the fallowing states. Texas, Arkansas, Florida, Mississippi, Kentucky, Alabama, Louisiana and Florida. Non of them had any right to leave. The US gained a cause belie against Virginia, Georgia and the Carolinas by them wanting to detach the other states.

Even without the legalism's, I would have been immoral to let the south detach and let it spread it's social system to Cuba and Mexico.

730 DeKalb  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 5:09:54pm

729 Ruebacca
Spread its social system? If you mean slavery, it existed in Cuba.

731 displaced yankee  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 5:23:27pm

re: #698 ploome hineni
Well said, Ploome.

732 Mardukhai  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 5:37:28pm

I met Carter once, in the spring of 1976. He seemed okay, but then, he was trying to appear to be a moderate.

733 attentionseeker  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 5:47:17pm

I'm not sure why it is laughable to refer to the war as "The War Between the States," seeing as how it was a secessionist movement, not an attempt to take over the government (which would make it a civil war). Seems pretty much the most accurate description, to me, without the loaded phraseology like 'War of Northern Aggression' might be considered.
That Carter uttered is just proves the old adage 'a stopped clock is right twice a day' to be dead on.

734 attentionseeker  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 5:49:23pm

Ruebacca

The federal gov bought or won in war the fallowing states. Texas

Sorry, no. Texas was an independent nation which joined the Union on its own initiative. The Union did not purchase or 'win' Texas from anyone.

735 Rolltideroll  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 6:37:23pm

Jimmy Carter should not get Hail to Chief anymore. He needs to walk out to the Benny Hil song from now on.

736 kansas  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 6:39:02pm

re: #725 Ruebacca

The Slave owners would have rebeled from the confederacy.

After the war B. Forrest said he whent to war to: "Keep my Niggars."

From Wiki.

When the Civil War began, Forrest offered freedom to 44 of his slaves if they would serve with him in the Confederate army. All 44 agreed.

So that might not be why he "whent" to war.

737 kansas  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 6:39:54pm

re: #729 Ruebacca

The federal gov bought or won in war the fallowing states. Texas, Arkansas, Florida, Mississippi, Kentucky, Alabama, Louisiana and Florida. Non of them had any right to leave. The US gained a cause belie against Virginia, Georgia and the Carolinas by them wanting to detach the other states.

Even without the legalism's, I would have been immoral to let the south detach and let it spread it's social system to Cuba and Mexico.

Do you just make this shit up? Or did you get some special classes in history?

738 califleftyb  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 6:40:32pm

And for purposes of comparison:

"..There was a time in my country's history where one in every seven human beings was the property of another......For 250 years the captives endured an assault on their culture and their dignity. The spirit of Africans in America did not break. Yet the spirit of their captors was corrupted. Small men took on the powers and airs of tyrants and masters. Years of unpunished brutality and bullying and rape produced a dullness and hardness of conscience. Christian men and women became blind to the clearest commands of their faith and added hypocrisy to injustice. A republic founded on equality for all became a prison for millions..... All of the generations of oppression under the laws of man could not crush the hope of freedom and defeat the purposes of God.

In America, enslaved Africans learned the story of the exodus from Egypt and set their own hearts on a promised land of freedom. Enslaved Africans discovered a suffering savior and found he was more like themselves than their masters. Enslaved Africans heard the ringing promises of the Declaration of Independence and asked the self- evident question, "Then why not me?......God tells us,"... "that the oppressor and the oppressed are both in His hands. And if these are not the poor, the brokenhearted, the blind, the captive, the bruised which our Savior speaks of, who are they?"

Down through the years, African-Americans have upheld the ideals of America by exposing laws and habits contradicting those ideals. The rights of African-Americans were not the gift of those in authority. Those rights were granted by the Author of Life, and regained by the persistence and courage of African-Americans, themselves.... "In every human breast, God has implanted a principle which we call love of freedom. It is impatient of oppression and pants for deliverance."..... At every turn, the struggle for equality was resisted by many of the powerful. And some have said we should not judge their failures by the standards of a later time, yet in every time there were men and women who clearly saw this sin and called it by name. We can fairly judge the past by the standards of President John Adams, who called slavery "an evil of colossal magnitude." We can discern eternal standards in the deeds of William Wilberforce and John Quincy Adams and Harriet Beecher Stowe and Abraham Lincoln.....By a plan known only to Providence, the stolen sons and daughters of Africa helped to awaken the conscience of America..... My nation's journey toward justice has not been easy and it is not over.....many of the issues that still trouble America have roots in the bitter experience of other times. But however long the journey, our destination is set: liberty and justice for all.

....We know with equal certainty that freedom is not the possession of one nation. This belief in the natural rights of man, this conviction that justice should reach wherever the sun passes, leads America into the world. With the power and resources given to us, the United States seeks to bring peace where there is conflict, hope where there's suffering, and liberty where there's tyranny.....

Against the waste and violence of civil war, we will stand together for peace. Against the merciless terrorists who threaten every nation, we will wage an unrelenting campaign of justice. Confronted with desperate hunger, we will answer with human compassion and the tools of human technology.....We know that these challenges can be overcome because history moves in the direction of justice. The evils of slavery were accepted and unchanged for centuries, yet eventually the human heart would not abide them. There is a voice of conscience and hope in every man and woman that will not be silenced,....This untamed fire of justice continues to burn in the affairs of man, and it lights the way before us. May God bless you all.

Geo. W. Bush
Goree Island, Senegal, Tuesday, 8 July 2003

739 Higgs Boson  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 6:53:17pm

As I have been saying for years, "Jimmy Carter is America's First Woman President !"

740 barb42  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 7:58:14pm

re: #459 Dianna

No, prior to the Emancipation Proclamation, there was no actual movement to force the freeing of slaves. There was, however, a definite movement to begin restricting slavery, and otherwise making it uneconomic.

It was a social movement, with the usual components, none of whom got along.

One very good place to start is with John Brown, and the Raid on Harper's Ferry.

Where have you been? Ever heard of the Abolitionist Movement? Geez.

741 Gmac  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 8:32:51pm

Jesus, he can't even get “The War Between the States” right.
True Southerner's call it "The War of Northern Aggression"

Whatta maroon, but then its par for the course for an antisemitic idiot.

742 Areopagitica  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 10:21:14pm

Wow, first Jimmy blames the evil Joos for their horrid treatment of the paleostinians, the nerve of the Joos defending themselves when a homicidal ruling body fires rockets at them.

Now he is trying to lay at least partial blame for the Civil War on Lincoln? Um, Jimmy, would you have let an enemy army march on the capital or fire on federal fortifications? ......oh wait you did that already with that whole Iran thing...never mind

Someone needs to tell mr. peanut to shut his Joo hating, Hezbollah loving pie hole.

743 Humanitarian2112  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 10:51:54pm

I can't believe I'm defending Jimma Cahta, but some of you folks need to go read about Jeffersonian Democracy (possibly again, but it does not appear so) and take a Gander at the Federalist Papers (again?). A blind squirrel finds a nut every now and again; Jimma may have found one here. The War of Northern Aggression was completely unnecessary, albeit the central, federalized government of the United States was hell bent for leather on mandating to the States what they would and would not do -outside the mandate of the ratified Constitution of the United States. Political will was changing, and moral standards were changing to the point that slavery would not have continued much longer in the south. In fact, the industrial revolution was going to force the change based upon economics. (Do not get me started on the source of slaves - a market provided by the African tribes to the highest bidder [so, eliminating the American slave trade destroyed the African economy]). #277 - arrogant much?

All of the current whaling and nashing of teeth would be mute if the "Congress" existing during that period had been better behaved and managed (sound familiar?). They exceeded their authority, and with the support of President Lincoln and a Process oriented Judicial branch forced a stand against excessive centralization of government.

Don't be confused, I'm a Southerner, a U.S. Army veteran, son, grandson, great-grandson, of U.S. Army veterans -so we've come to terms with the unfortunate situation caused by the Northern agressionists iin the Congress of the United States during that period. I am also the great-great-grandson of a member of the 15th Alabama Cavalry during the fight to insure the pledge of the Constitution of the United States. The fact that he had to fight his countrymen is one thing, the fact that he and and his lost and we have arrived at a point where Federalization of all things is the standard confirms to me their ideals.

I think, that after 7 and some odd years, I might not be a lizzardoid, after all. I hope not.

744 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:06:23pm

re: #743 Humanitarian2112

Sorry, I can't agree. The Union might have fallen apart completely had the south not been suppressed, to say nothing of the injustice the South was intent on perpetuating. No, the Civil War was necessary. The Federal Union had to be confirmed by force, there was ultimately no other way.

745 Cobdenite  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 11:42:15pm

"Political will was changing, and moral standards were changing to the point that slavery would not have continued much longer in the south."

Southerners were lynching at least a few hundred blacks a year in 1960. There was very little that was changing about the character and moral makeup of the south. Sometimes it seems as if too little has changed today... based on your commentary, in any case.

746 dpolwarth  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 1:35:42am

At the risk of getting chewed out, I thought that the US Civil War had complex roots and that slavery played only one part in it. I remember watching a series on it that explained how the South wanted to declare their independence and be their own nation, have their own capitol and laws and so on. It's only in recent years that history was rewritten to make it a war about slavery.

I might be wrong, but surely it was a war about Southern independence from Washington? Slavery might have aggrevated it, but I can't imagine the US would go to war to defend slaves. At the time that would have been like going to war to defend the rights of cats, or something. Slaves just didn't have the same value as human beings back then as they do now. I'm quite sure there were many who felt the treatment of slaves was abominable, but I don't see that as cause to go to war unless there was already an underlying tension.

Mind you, I'm not American, I'm from the UK. I'm certainly not saying that we have any kind of moral authority. All countries behaved with a different set of values back then. But I'm always a little suspicious when people say that the Civil War was fought over slaves alone. It's like saying WWII was fought to defend the rights of Jews - nice idea, but no one knew what was happening to the Jews in Germany until the end of the war.

Of course, I could have it all wrong. Are there any good historians out there to put me right?

747 DebbieSym  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 2:44:05pm

Jimmy Carter seems to spend all of his time looking for opportunities to parade his moral superiority. He's smug, self-righteous, sanctimonious . . . and wrong.

748 Humanitarian2112  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 3:58:37pm

#745, cobdenite; please provide link to empirical data to support your statement. No data, no substantiation. I know your numbers are wrong. You've been watching too many movies. I'm certain you think the movie deliverence is an accurate representation of 1975 Georgia.

749 Humanitarian2112  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:32:43pm

#745, cobdenite; In fact, you are full of the excrement of the male of the Bovine species. Produce the empirical data for your slur, ma'am. Also produce emperical data for white on white lynchings, black on black killings, and black on white killings for the same time period. In the south, that is. Then produce the same data for all incidents in northern, midwestern, and western areas with corresponding population densities and demograhic information.

How could you possibly believe such tripe? You, Ma'am are what LGF stands against. Or so I thought. Have you produced many short films sending "minorities" into the south to provide proof of our prejudice? Bless your poor little heart.


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