Outrageous Outrage of the Day!

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Michelle Malkin is saving us from the evil racist artwork choices of the Obamas, by noting that an abstract painting by African American artist Alma Thomas bears a strong resemblance to a collage by Henri Matisse — and labeling it plagiarism! Michelle Malkin » Do the Watusi: Art, imitation, and the Obamas.

Brian Ledbetter creates a cute little animation proving (to the moronosphere) that the painting is “fraudulent.” And to make it even dumber, he links to this catalog:

In the years prior to her arthritic attack, and especially after an exhibition of Matiss’e gouache collages opened at the Museum of Modern Art in New York in 1961, she had been looking closely at the work of the French artist. Despite her resistance to overt Afrocentricity, Thomas was hardly immune to the pride most African Americans took in the civil rights struggle that began in the later 1950s. Not surprisingly, her intellectual activism was stated in the language of abstraction. This may be demonstrated by comparing her Watusi (Hard Edge) … with Matisse’s collage L’Escargot.

It’s right there in front of them; Alma Thomas’s painting was a deliberate “riff” on the Matisse collage, and it says that explicitly in the catalog — and still they’re accusing it of being a cheap plagiaristic copy!

Artists do this all the time. They copy, alter, re-work, and re-imagine existing pieces of art. Calling it “plagiarism” absolutely takes the cake — a triple layer stupid-food cake with idiot frosting and little chunks of dried moronfruit.

Here are the two pieces side by side — Alma Thomas’s Watusi (Hard Edge) on the left, and Henri Matisse’s L’Escargot on the right.

Jump to bottom

412 comments
1 bosforus  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 1:56:35pm

Yeah, it is a deliberate rip-off. But here's the real question... Who the f*** cares?

2 bosforus  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 1:57:47pm

I like this part...

Another blogger actually raised questions about the piece back in July: “I have been on a rant about this for three days.

You were losing sleep over this for 3 days? Are you kidding me?! Get a life.

3 William of Orange  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 1:59:19pm
Artists do this all the time. They copy, alter, re-work, and re-imagine existing pieces of art. Calling it “plagiarism” absolutely takes the cake — a triple layer stupid-food cake with idiot frosting and little chunks of dried moronfruit.

Hey! I thought of those words yesterday! You infringed my copyright!!

:)

4 Sharmuta  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 1:59:46pm

I'm really glad the right-wing bloggers are putting forth such great commentary- pieces that will assure the GOP election victories next year. This will really stop Obama's agenda, this time for sure!

5 Dr. Shalit  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:00:05pm

And our vehicles for many years were based on a front engine, rear drive combination originally put together by the French Engineer Panhard. Copying stuff that works is a good idea as long as it comes with proper attribution.

-S-

6 Cato the Elder  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:00:32pm

Knowing something about art shows that you are infected with teh ghey.

Ignorance is bliss, to these folks. Manly, macho bliss.

7 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:01:03pm

Dammit! I hate that the Right has decided to give up culture. Don't they realize that the only thing worth preserving, the only thing that makes the West the West, is our culture?

8 bosforus  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:01:41pm

No one drop a can of paint on a white canvas. Pollock will sue you.

9 tradewind  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:01:47pm

O/T,
O'Reilly is going to have Richard Dawkins on his program tonight.

10 wrenchwench  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:02:03pm

Regards, Brian proves how unalike the paintings are with his wimpy "riff" on the Throbbing Memo.

11 tradewind  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:02:19pm

re: #8 bosforus

Watch the ethnic slurs, buddy...
///

12 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:02:47pm

re: #9 tradewind

O/T,
O'Reilly is going to have Richard Dawkins on his program tonight.

A perfect example of Platonic Irony.

13 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:03:59pm

It's a riff, OK, but all I see are a bunch of odd shapes jumbled together.

14 William of Orange  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:04:26pm

I have that itching feeling Jon Stewart is running away with this one. And let's face it, this deserves that treatment.

Unbelievable stupidity needs to be exposed.

15 bosforus  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:04:38pm

re: #11 tradewind

If this is the beginning of another painter pun thread I might just have to asplode my head.

16 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:04:45pm

re: #13 Honorary Yooper

It's a riff, OK, but all I see are a bunch of odd shapes jumbled together.

See an optometrist.

17 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:04:56pm
18 vxbush  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:05:04pm

And to be honest, neither piece inspires much interest in me as art. There are other pieces of Matisse's work that I find to be far more beautiful. I have not seen any other pieces of Thomas'.

19 BlackFedora  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:05:48pm

Jesus Christ...

These people need to get a little bit more cultured.

20 William of Orange  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:05:53pm

re: #12 Guanxi88

Oh boy. Can we make a bet? In which minute will bill lose it and go on in a full-out namecalling rant!

21 Cato the Elder  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:05:59pm

Just as a point of interest: the possessive form of Thomas is Thomas's.

22 debutaunt  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:06:31pm

re: #17 MandyManners

Time for a mental-health break after all this ugliness.

[Video]


FDS, don't despair! [Link: hplusmagazine.com...]

23 tradewind  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:06:36pm

Yawn. If they're gonna go after POTUS' taste in art, this is much more psychologically interesting.
Image: indeci.jpg
Besides, both of those are fugly. The Matisse is the most un-Matisse-esque offering I've ever seen. He must have been sleeppainting.

24 vxbush  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:06:38pm

re: #21 Cato the Elder

Just as a point of interest: the possessive form of Thomas is Thomas's.

Yeah, I figured that, but it's the end of the day on Friday, I'm tired, and I wasn't sure I had the energy to type two extra characters.

25 Dante41  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:07:32pm

Well, add "Art" to the list of things that Michelle Malkin knows absolutely nothing about.

26 metrolibertarian  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:08:03pm

Is Michelle appearing on Glenn Beck to expose how this painting is somehow leading ACORN to infect us with H1N1 through vaccinations while doing the census yet?

27 CommonCents  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:08:25pm

There is clearly no comparison between the two. One is a fan blowing to the right with streamers, the other is a smiling cyclops. How is that a rip-off?
/

28 KingKenrod  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:08:28pm

re: #9 tradewind

O/T,
O'Reilly is going to have Richard Dawkins on his program tonight.

Here's a transcript of an O'Reilly segment on ID (the guest is Dr. Michael Grant, Professor of Biology at the University of Colorado):

[Link: www.newshounds.us...]

I wouldn't expect any enlightenment from O'Reilly. The Dawkins segment will probably be about Dawkins' atheism anyway.

29 acacia  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:09:30pm

In fairness to Malkin, I think her real point is that it is not a very good piece of art. She clearly acknowledges that the artist was reworking a Matisse. She is not claiming that the artist is trying to sneak one by the viewers. What she is saying is that to rework a cutout piece is not very imaginative and does not qualify as good art. Of course art is one of those things that is in the eye of the beholder. As a beholder of my own eye, I can't get too excited over either the original or the rework.

30 bosforus  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:09:39pm

The orange one needs to be rotated 90 degrees counter-clockwise.

31 Sharmuta  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:09:48pm

I have a friend how does artistic collages. He cuts and pastes images of existing art together to make something new. He has two books listed in a fine arts museum on the east coast. His work isn't considered plagiarism at all.

It seems to me that not only are these people ignorant of the science they demonize, but also ignorant of art, which they also demonize and attack as frivolous or obscene. I'm detecting a trend.

32 What, me worry?  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:09:53pm

re: #6 Cato the Elder

Knowing something about art shows that you are infected with teh ghey.

Ignorance is bliss, to these folks. Manly, macho bliss.

Malkin is gay? Eh, what woman would have her?

33 Ojoe  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:09:54pm

It is cool to see the paintings side by side.

They'd make a good pair of postage stamps.

34 tradewind  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:10:01pm

re: #15 bosforus
Clapping hands with Klee.
(Come to think of it, that Matisse looks more like something from Klee) .

35 Henchman Ghazi-808  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:10:08pm

I guess I should be outraged by musicians such as Led Zeppelin and The Beasty Boys who took well established musical styles and talents, put on their interpretaion or outright vandalized them into morphs of what they once were then made millions.

That reminds me, I need to buy another copy of Led Zeppelin III and Check Your Head.

36 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:10:09pm

re: #22 debutaunt

FDS, don't despair! [Link: hplusmagazine.com...]

Yes, fun is essential.


37 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:10:16pm

All I have to say is this...

At least we didn't blow up the moon this morning.

38 bosforus  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:10:41pm

re: #30 bosforus

The orange one needs to be rotated 90 degrees counter-clockwise.

Oh. I see Malkin already made that point.

39 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:11:20pm

re: #37 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

All I have to say is this...

At least we didn't blow up the moon this morning.

The mooninites are advanced beyond all your understanding. A primitive Earth weapon would have no effect.

40 tradewind  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:11:22pm

re: #28 KingKenrod

I got no dog in that hunt, just thought I would put out the word.

41 SixDegrees  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:11:28pm

re: #2 bosforus

I like this part...

You were losing sleep over this for 3 days? Are you kidding me?! Get a life.

And the catalog they're holding up as "proof" of plagiarism is over ten years old, and openly acknowledges that Thomas' piece is derived from Matisse's.

And all of this, somehow, proves that 0bama is...something. I'm not sure what, but it's gotta be bad. Somehow.

42 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:11:48pm

re: #29 acacia

In fairness to Malkin, I think her real point is that it is not a very good piece of art. She clearly acknowledges that the artist was reworking a Matisse. She is not claiming that the artist is trying to sneak one by the viewers. What she is saying is that to rework a cutout piece is not very imaginative and does not qualify as good art. Of course art is one of those things that is in the eye of the beholder. As a beholder of my own eye, I can't get too excited over either the original or the rework.

Oh please! She quotes another blogger approvingly, who wrote: "Can anyone say plagiarism? American art? I don’t think so!"

She didn't say any of the things you're attributing to her.

43 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:11:54pm
a triple layer stupid-food cake with idiot frosting and little chunks of dried moronfruit.

CAKE OR DEATH!

44 Cato the Elder  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:12:07pm

Charles, weird LGF behavior:

My last two posts somehow link me to a website that I have never heard of or visited before. Somehow the address got dumped into the "Web site" box in the comment form. I had to log off and back on again to get rid of it.

45 debutaunt  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:12:23pm

re: #37 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

All I have to say is this...

At least we didn't blow up the moon this morning.

Are we blowing up evidence that we had never been there?

46 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:12:28pm

re: #16 Guanxi88

See an optometrist.

I did. I guess what's art to some is just a jumble of shapes to others.
Never could understand what was so great about Andy Warhol's art of puting multiple copies of an image together.

47 Cato the Elder  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:12:39pm

re: #43 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

CAKE OR DEATH!

In bed.

48 doubter4444  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:12:44pm

re: #7 Guanxi88

Dammit! I hate that the Right has decided to give up culture. Don't they realize that the only thing worth preserving, the only thing that makes the West the West, is our culture?

Only "The Culture of Life" matters to the far right.

This is Approved ART
(reposted from the other day):
Best Painting EVER

49 NYC Conservative  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:12:47pm

I'm not sure what the word "riff" or "re-imagining" is supposed to mean.
It's an exact copy.

Riff implies it is mocking, or humorous. Reimagining implies that its inspired by, like the new Star Trek movie compared to the old ones. It's not shot by shot reconstruction.

Maybe it's just me and my slow work day.

50 Ojoe  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:12:52pm

Whites stole the pointed arch from the Persians (etc etc)

51 tradewind  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:12:59pm

re: #35 BigPapa

Just stay way from the Kanye. He does love to use the N word.
(Too bad, because Golddiggah is such a great song, even if it's rap)

52 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:13:00pm
53 Jack Burton  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:13:17pm

re: #39 Guanxi88

The mooninites are advanced beyond all your understanding. A primitive Earth weapon would have no effect.

We need the Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator for that.

54 Big Steve  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:13:25pm

Well now that this is out damn it I am outing Vincent Van Gogh. Compare his painting Van Gogh...The Watch to Jean Millet Millet...Night All artists have influences. Geesh

55 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:13:25pm

re: #49 NYC Conservative

I'm not sure what the word "riff" or "re-imagining" is supposed to mean.
It's an exact copy.

Riff implies it is mocking, or humorous. Reimagining implies that its inspired by, like the new Star Trek movie compared to the old ones. It's not shot by shot reconstruction.

Maybe it's just me and my slow work day.

No, it is not an "exact copy."

56 so.cal.swede  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:13:48pm

I started craving cake all of a sudden...

57 Dante41  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:13:59pm

re: #43 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

CAKE OR DEATH!

The cake is a LIE!

58 War_Eagle  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:14:03pm

re: #4 Sharmuta

So here's my question on the current level of discourse. Is the brass at Republican headquarters letting this stuff go on/encouraging it because they think they need to keep the base riled up, and they hope they can moderate their tone some when the time comes? Or am I just kidding myself that the RNC and other bodies are thinking ahead, and in fact they actually believe the crap that keeps coming out?

59 TheMatrix31  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:14:10pm

"Artists" always rip off other "artists". Whether it be paintings, sculptures, music, movies, whatever...

Who gives a damn.

60 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:14:32pm

re: #46 Honorary Yooper

I did. I guess what's art to some is just a jumble of shapes to others.
Never could understand what was so great about Andy Warhol's art of puting multiple copies of an image together.

Well, modern art generally stinks out loud; no getting around it - the interpretation of the work has become more important (and mores substantial) than the work itself. As I observed elsewhere, this is the same thing that happened with
hip hop - we have now no DJ's, only MC's.

61 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:14:48pm
62 Rednek  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:14:55pm
63 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:15:06pm

Thought you weren't going to post on this, Charles. Did smashing your head against the wall help after all? ;)

64 Henchman Ghazi-808  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:15:09pm

One of the most blatant musical crimes ever: Beastie Boys playing the guitar riff from Sweat Leaf and the drum track from When The Levee Breaks. Good Times!

"I am most ill when I'm Rhymin and Stealin"

65 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:15:12pm

By the way, I know this probably makes me a librul of some kind, but I like both of these paintings.

66 Ojoe  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:15:30pm

re: #58 War_Eagle

I do not believe they are thinking at all.

67 NYC Conservative  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:16:24pm

re: #55 Charles

No, it is not an "exact copy."

Your right. The boxes are different colors. Its very original.

68 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:16:24pm

re: #48 doubter4444

Only "The Culture of Life" matters to the far right.

This is Approved ART
(reposted from the other day):
Best Painting EVER

That is the single most amazing piece of crap I've ever seen! Stunning - the didactic intent, the photo-realistic intent, the ersatz glow of divinity, the stereotyped and featureless faces, the piss-poor arrangement, the absolute lack of motion, tension, or even harmony among the parts. Truly a staggeringly bad thing.

69 vxbush  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:16:33pm

re: #58 War_Eagle

So here's my question on the current level of discourse. Is the brass at Republican headquarters letting this stuff go on/encouraging it because they think they need to keep the base riled up, and they hope they can moderate their tone some when the time comes? Or am I just kidding myself that the RNC and other bodies are thinking ahead, and in fact they actually believe the crap that keeps coming out?

It seems to be a case that the Obamas can do no right, so anything that can be used to belittle them is being used. It's one thing to focus on policy issues and administrative decisions you disagree with, but this is picking on the Obamas' choice of art just for the sake of picking on it.

70 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:16:36pm

re: #45 debutaunt

Are we blowing up evidence that we had never been there?

IT'S A MASONIK KONSPIRACY!

71 bosforus  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:16:46pm

re: #39 Guanxi88

The mooninites are advanced beyond all your understanding. A primitive Earth weapon would have no effect.

Mooninites, reunite, duplicate, and annihilate!

72 Cineaste  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:16:46pm

re: #7 Guanxi88

Dammit! I hate that the Right has decided to give up culture. Don't they realize that the only thing worth preserving, the only thing that makes the West the West, is our culture?

Let's list the things they've given up on:

Art & Culture (this situation)
Science (AGW et al)
Evolution (creationism)
Communication (talking to others)
Inclusion & Compassion (gays & lesbians)
Morality (Mark Sanford et al)

What's left?

Guns
Abortions
God

73 CommonCents  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:17:13pm

re: #65 Charles

By the way, I know this probably makes me a librul of some kind, but I like both of these paintings.

Librul Hippie!
/

74 bosforus  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:17:19pm

re: #65 Charles

By the way, I know this probably makes me a librul of some kind, but I like both of these paintings.

You would.
/

75 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:18:02pm

re: #71 bosforus

Mooninites, reunite, duplicate, and annihilate!

No one can escape the Quad-Blazer!

Shoot him the bird. Smoke while you do so!

76 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:18:05pm

re: #58 War_Eagle

So here's my question on the current level of discourse. Is the brass at Republican headquarters letting this stuff go on/encouraging it because they think they need to keep the base riled up, and they hope they can moderate their tone some when the time comes? Or am I just kidding myself that the RNC and other bodies are thinking ahead, and in fact they actually believe the crap that keeps coming out?

I think we're seeing a situation in which the Creature turns on its Creator. There's no leadership here.

77 Ojoe  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:18:23pm

re: #72 Cineaste

Inclusion & Compassion (gays & lesbians)

Given up on that in a big way.

God loves everyone.

78 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:18:42pm

re: #62 Rednek

This is what I call beautiful

Wow Awesome! Now that is beautiful art in it's highest form

79 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:18:49pm

re: #65 Charles

By the way, I know this probably makes me a librul of some kind, but I like both of these paintings.

Did Matisse ever do one with dogs playing poker?

80 doubter4444  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:19:03pm

re: #68 Guanxi88

That is the single most amazing piece of crap I've ever seen! Stunning - the didactic intent, the photo-realistic intent, the ersatz glow of divinity, the stereotyped and featureless faces, the piss-poor arrangement, the absolute lack of motion, tension, or even harmony among the parts. Truly a staggeringly bad thing.

I know, it rocks.
I thought at first it was parody.

81 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:19:08pm

re: #79 The Sanity Inspector

Did Matisse ever do one with dogs playing poker?

You're thinking of Da Vinci.

82 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:19:13pm

re: #65 Charles

By the way, I know this probably makes me a librul of some kind, but I like both of these paintings.

Well, art is often in the eye of the beholder. I find them kind of bland, personally.

83 vxbush  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:19:17pm

re: #79 The Sanity Inspector

Did Matisse ever do one with dogs playing poker?

Why do a painting when you can photoshop it now?

/

84 What, me worry?  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:19:22pm

I like them too. It's a good pick for the Whitehouse. Bright and happy without making a specific statement about *something*. We talked about this last night, but I'm a big admirer of Matisse and certainly like some of his other stuff better, but this is good for an office or public place. I'll have to look up the other artist's works.

The Obamas couldn't win on this one. If they picked a "white" artist, they would be Uncle Toms. If they picked a "foreign" artist, they would be anti-American. If they picked a "black" artist, they're showing favoritism. Why can't ART just be ART.

85 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:19:51pm

re: #80 doubter4444

I know, it rocks.
I thought at first it was parody.

Are we 100% certain it's not? As a parody, it's brilliant.

86 vxbush  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:20:33pm

re: #85 Guanxi88

Are we 100% certain it's not? As a parody, it's brilliant.

Uh, I don't think so. Look over the artist's site.

87 Noam Sayin'  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:20:44pm

Derivative? Sure. Plagiarism? Please...

88 Ojoe  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:21:05pm
89 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:21:06pm

re: #48 doubter4444

Only "The Culture of Life" matters to the far right.

This is Approved ART
(reposted from the other day):
Best Painting EVER

Ick. Not my kind of art either. That painting reminds me too much of pictures of Elvis on black velvet.

90 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:21:31pm

re: #67 NYC Conservative

Your right. The boxes are different colors. Its very original.

Uh, no. That's not the only difference.

91 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:21:49pm

re: #86 vxbush

Uh, I don't think so. Look over the artist's site.

It could be a larger work, with the painting as part of the installation. If so, then it's groundbreaking in its originality and perfection of execution.

92 acacia  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:21:57pm

re: #42 Charles

Oh please! She quotes another blogger approvingly, who wrote: "Can anyone say plagiarism? American art? I don’t think so!"

She didn't say any of the things you're attributing to her.

Charles, I'm going to have to disagree with you here - at least for the most part. She directly quoted Art in America containing the following:

"A year earlier, she had seen the late Matisse cutouts at the Museum of Modern Art in New York. Matisse’s work had prompted her to paint an acrylic-on-canvas version of his collage The Snail (1953), in which nearly all the original colors were reversed."

As for her point that it doesn't take much artistic creativity to rework the piece, what other conclusion can you reach by her posting a tilted version of the Mona Lisa?

I tend to agree with you that her link is a bit much but even though that blogger doesn't agree, even he acknowledges that there is an issue with the following:

"It's also worth noting that Photoguy points out in the comments that Watusi (Hard Edges) is "a very famous piece that was created as a study of Matisse's piece.""

He also acknowledges that he is a "moron" when it comes to art.

93 bosforus  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:22:00pm

re: #87 Noam Sayin'

Derivative? Sure. Plagiarism? Please...

Talking derivatives? 6x clearly plagiarized 3x^2

94 Cato the Elder  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:22:05pm

re: #67 NYC Conservative

Your right. The boxes are different colors. Its very original.

I think the joke - it's a joke, see? - is that Matisse calls something a snail and she calls a similar something a dance, and it's all about what we call things and why and there'll probably be a dissertation on it.

Calling it "plagiarism" is like calling Fat David a visual joke. Duh.

95 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:22:22pm

re: #81 Guanxi88

You're thinking of Da Vinci.

Poker art?

96 Jack Burton  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:22:24pm

re: #65 Charles

By the way, I know this probably makes me a librul of some kind, but I like both of these paintings.

Just knowing who Matisse is means you have teh ghey.

/

97 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:22:41pm

'Al-Qaeda-link' Cern worker held

France has arrested a researcher at the European Organization for Nuclear Research (Cern) for suspected links with al-Qaeda, officials have said.

The 32-year-old man of Algerian descent was one of two brothers detained in the south-east town of Vienne on Thursday.

Police believe they had been in contact over the internet with people linked to al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb, and had been planning attacks in France.

98 marksstudio  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:22:51pm

Wait a minute...that's not a riff...a riff is taking something to the next level, not spinning it. Gotta be careful with art because art is selecting and arranging, not turning.

You certainly can't be encouraging that, ...right? That flies in the face of respect and originality.

Say there is only one Blues tune; everything else is a riff on that...not a copy, or a sample posing as the real thing, but a bona fide movement ahead that can claim it's own standing and originality.

This is not that.

99 Henchman Ghazi-808  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:22:52pm

re: #65 Charles

By the way, I know this probably makes me a librul of some kind, but I like both of these paintings.

You're only librul if you have them like 12' x 12'. You have teh librul!

I wouldn't like it too big, maybe as a smaller accent painting I would like that.

100 webevintage  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:22:58pm

re: #29 acacia

In fairness to Malkin, I think her real point is that it is not a very good piece of art.

My question is why the hell does she care?
Has it been that slow of a faux outrage news cycle that the artwork hanging in the White House requires this kind of scrutiny?
The woman really needs to get a hobby...

101 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:23:12pm

re: #92 acacia

Right -- she directly quoted "Art in America" and then STILL insinuated that it was plagiarized.

102 Danny  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:23:23pm

plagiarism -- the practice of taking someone else's work or ideas and passing them off as one's own.

Malkin = FAIL

103 Cato the Elder  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:23:35pm

re: #89 Honorary Yooper

Ick. Not my kind of art either. That painting reminds me too much of pictures of Elvis on black velvet.

Does Viggo Mortensen know they used his image there?

104 researchok  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:23:46pm

Monet, Manet, Cassatt, Degas, Gaugin, Morisot, Renoir, van Gogh...the list of impressionist plagiarists is endless.

Bastards.

105 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:23:48pm

re: #68 Guanxi88

That is the single most amazing piece of crap I've ever seen! Stunning - the didactic intent, the photo-realistic intent, the ersatz glow of divinity, the stereotyped and featureless faces, the piss-poor arrangement, the absolute lack of motion, tension, or even harmony among the parts. Truly a staggeringly bad thing.

Speaking of derivative works...
Great Cthulhu (after McNaughton)

(not work safe on account of cosmic horror, blood, gore and hilarity)

106 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:24:19pm

re: #98 marksstudio

Wait a minute...that's not a riff...a riff is taking something to the next level, not spinning it. Gotta be careful with art because art is selecting and arranging, not turning.

You certainly can't be encouraging that, ...right? That flies in the face of respect and originality.

Say there is only one Blues tune; everything else is a riff on that...not a copy, or a sample posing as the real thing, but a bona fide movement ahead that can claim it's own standing and originality.

This is not that.

So if I understand you correctly, you're agreeing that this "plagiarism?"

Wow. Major fail there, dude.

107 Dante41  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:24:30pm

re: #97 Killgore Trout

'Al-Qaeda-link' Cern worker held

You know, it wouldn't surprise me if AlQ actually was hoping to use the LHC to start cranking out black holes. It would fall right in line with their other brilliant plans like:

- Plotting to bring down the Brooklyn Bridge with a blowtorch.
- Plotting to go shoot up an Army base because what are the chances anyone there would shoot back?
- Driving a jeep with a propane tank in the back into an airport bollard at low speed, then running around the jeep on fire until bystanders kick their asses.
- Plotting to Light a fuel pipe on fire, thereby blowing up JFK airport.
- Plotting to blow up the Holland Tunnel so water flows uphill and floods Wall Street.
- Plotting to bring down the Sears Tower with no weapons, money, explosives, or training.
- Trying to assassinate the Saudi Deputy (!) Interior Minister with a bomb smuggled in someone's butt.

/coptpasta'd from Fark

108 vxbush  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:24:50pm

re: #91 Guanxi88

It could be a larger work, with the painting as part of the installation. If so, then it's groundbreaking in its originality and perfection of execution.

But you asked if it was a parody, and as your mouse goes over the picture there is a description for why that character was put in the picture. It doesn't seem like a parody based on the descriptions written about these characters.

109 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:25:42pm

re: #105 WindUpBird

Speaking of derivative works...
Great Cthulhu (after McNaughton)

(not work safe on account of cosmic horror, blood, gore and hilarity)


Genius! See, that is good art!

110 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:26:44pm

re: #108 vxbush

But you asked if it was a parody, and as your mouse goes over the picture there is a description for why that character was put in the picture. It doesn't seem like a parody based on the descriptions written about these characters.

I was reaching for a joke, and seem to have strained a rotator cuff in the process. It's too perfectly awful to be anything but unselfconsciously what it appears to be. Bad art is usually very sincere.

111 theheat  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:26:45pm

So seldom do art and politics come together so splendidly. It's been humorous to watch politically motivated people that don't know s-q-u-a-t about art weigh in with opinions tainted with teh stupid.

This is like pissing away your Get Out Of Jail Free card, trying to make an incident out of an art piece. It's art, for fuck's sake; a piece of art with an interesting story behind it. A story, that if they bothered to learn about it, explains exactly why it appears plagiarized.

Does the GOP even remember what they used to stand for, or are they in permanent rage mode? Last fall it was about jobs, taxes, and national security. Less than a year later, they're stroking out about art, which followed a variety of assorted self-inflicted strokeouts about death panels, abortion field trips... and something about commie robots stealing old white people's medicine.

If the goal was to become the laughingstock of politics, they're succeeding beyond their wildest expectations.

112 What, me worry?  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:27:01pm

re: #104 researchok

Monet, Manet, Cassatt, Degas, Gaugin, Morisot, Renoir, van Gogh...the list of impressionist plagiarists is endless.

Bastards.

Exactly. Hang one painting of each of the impressionists and if you didn't know who painted them, you would think ONE person painted them all. Similar styles and compositions. That's what art is about, inspiration, one from another.

113 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:27:13pm

re: #107 Dante41

I doubt they were going to try anything with CERN, the worst they could do would be to damage the experiment but safety features would prevent enough casualties to make it worthwhile for them. He would have access to materials that might have been useful.

114 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:27:45pm

Is there any Monet in cranking out riffs?

115 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:28:40pm

re: #114 MandyManners

Is there any Monet in cranking out riffs?

Everyone in the field goes Baroque eventually.

116 Ojoe  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:28:40pm

The GOP is having an art attack

117 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:28:59pm

re: #104 researchok

Monet, Manet, Cassatt, Degas, Gaugin, Morisot, Renoir, van Gogh...the list of impressionist plagiarists is endless.

Bastards.

What about Maxfield Parrish? Personally I think he was the greatest Artist of all time with colors and scenes..
But art is like wine..Everyone can disagree and all be right at the same time.

118 vxbush  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:29:00pm

re: #110 Guanxi88

I was reaching for a joke, and seem to have strained a rotator cuff in the process. It's too perfectly awful to be anything but unselfconsciously what it appears to be. Bad art is usually very sincere.

Ah. See, I told you I was tired...

119 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:29:09pm

re: #110 Guanxi88

I was reaching for a joke, and seem to have strained a rotator cuff in the process. It's too perfectly awful to be anything but unselfconsciously what it appears to be. Bad art is usually very sincere.

The guy really wants some of that Thomas Kincade "Painter of Light" cheddar. :D

120 Cineaste  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:29:23pm

re: #77 Ojoe

Given up on that in a big way.

God loves everyone.

ho-ho-ho unless you're one of the people that God told us to smite!

/sarc

I'm Jewish and not a great expert on Christianity but I never understood the contradiction of "Jesus loves you" and "You are dammed to eternal hell". When I was a kid studying for my Bar Mitzvah, I had this exchange with my Rabbi:

Me: Do we have hell?
Rabbi: No, not really.
Me: Do we have heaven?
Rabbi: We have eternal life, but not really heaven, per se.
Me: So what do you do for all eternity if you've been good.
Rabbi: Well, the great Rabbis say the greatest joy in life is the study of the Torah so eternal life must be eternal study of the torah.
Me: Um... really? Doesn't sound like heaven to me.
Rabbi: Yeah, that's kind of why we don't spend a lot of time teaching it in Sunday school...

:)

121 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:29:26pm

re: #114 MandyManners

Is there any Monet in cranking out riffs?

Please, don't Van Gogh there.

122 Rednek  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:29:30pm

re: #105 WindUpBird

Speaking of derivative works...
Great Cthulhu (after McNaughton)

(not work safe on account of cosmic horror, blood, gore and hilarity)


LOL
I Love IT !!1!

123 War_Eagle  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:29:39pm

I just noticed that the only block that does not change color between Matisse's work and the newer one is the black square. Obviously both Matisse and Thomas were prejudiced against god fearing white folks.
///

124 Big Steve  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:29:48pm

re: #114 MandyManners

Is there any Monet in cranking out riffs?

puns like that must gogh

125 marksstudio  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:29:52pm

You mean I disagree, so major fail?

It's one way or the other?

And that's it?

126 Cato the Elder  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:30:14pm

re: #119 WindUpBird

The guy really wants some of that Thomas Kincade "Painter of Light" cheddar. :D

Thomas's English Muffins.

127 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:30:16pm

re: #119 WindUpBird

The guy really wants some of that Thomas Kincade "Painter of Light" cheddar. :D

That's even worse. If you gotta copy someone, copy a master artist, not a religious kitschmeister.

128 Jack Burton  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:30:23pm

re: #114 MandyManners

Is there any Monet in cranking out riffs?

Only if what you riff isn't too Pissarro.

129 mich-again  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:30:49pm

That is not plagiarism. It shows that she was influenced by the original artist. Big deal. Just about every artist is inspired by and borrows some technique or style from other artists.

When Ward Churchill made "Winter Attack", it was obviously just a mirror image of a drawing done by Thomas E. Mails (Great name BTW). That is plagiarism.

130 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:30:53pm

re: #125 marksstudio

You mean I disagree, so major fail?

It's one way or the other?

And that's it?

If you think this is "plagiarism," yes, you are 100% wrong. Sorry, I know that might be difficult to accept. But it's true.

131 baier  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:30:55pm

Both of the paintings look like clown made of construction paper vomited.

132 Jack Burton  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:31:09pm

re: #121 Honorary Yooper

Please, don't Van Gogh there.

Too late she's already Gaugiun there and back.

133 War_Eagle  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:31:15pm

re: #125 marksstudio

I think you fail because "Plagiarism" is trying to pass off someone else's work as your own, and Thomas never did that here.

134 wrenchwench  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:31:20pm

re: #125 marksstudio

You mean I disagree, so major fail?

It's one way or the other?

And that's it?

You seek agreement or nothing? You don't express your opinion for the sake of discussion?

135 Henchman Ghazi-808  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:31:33pm

I'll bet they'd really freak out if that painting was put in a jar of piss.

136 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:31:34pm

re: #117 HoosierHoops

What about Maxfield Parrish? Personally I think he was the greatest Artist of all time with colors and scenes..
But art is like wine..Everyone can disagree and all be right at the same time.

I LOVE MAXFIELD PARRISH!!!

137 Political Atheist  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:31:45pm

re: #17 MandyManners

You rock Mandy! Thx!

138 transient  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:31:45pm

I just saw the Nobel Peace Prize thing. I'm still recovering from the outrage from that. ("Hope" now qualifies as worthy of a Peace Prize?) I can only be that outraged once per day, so I've reached my quota.

If there's room on my busy schedule, I will try to set aside 10-15 seconds to be outraged by Watusi sometime next month.

Or not.

139 dugmartsch  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:32:15pm

I love people who are proud of being ignorant of the subjects they're talking about, as if that itself gives them undeniable credibility to opine about the subject they've just admitted to not knowing anything about.

This is my favorite reason to tune people out at dinner parties.

140 acacia  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:33:10pm

re: #101 Charles

I still think you're overreacting a bit and not focusing on her real point that it's bad art and not worthy to be in the WH but who knows, maybe she is as goofy as you claim. I don't know.

Surely we agree on one point though and that is whether her point is blatant plageurism or bad art, it's a stupid and silly thing to be attacking Obama on. If the Obamas like the painting, so be it. Leave them alone. Criticizing one's taste in art is classless and a waste of time and energy.

141 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:33:10pm

re: #117 HoosierHoops

What about Maxfield Parrish? Personally I think he was the greatest Artist of all time with colors and scenes..
But art is like wine..Everyone can disagree and all be right at the same time.

I don't think he's the greatest of all time, but he's a wizard of glazing. Though IIRC he used gasoline and other fugitive solvents for glazes so his works are really fragile.

Personally, I'm more of a Phil Hale/Rick Berry/John Jude Palencar/Odd Nerdrum kind of guy. I like more grit and chaos in my modern masters 8-)

142 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:33:18pm

Now that the Peace Prize thread is getting old, watch -- the real ranters will start coming out.

143 Henchman Ghazi-808  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:33:35pm

I just noticed it was tagged Nontroversy.

Was that yours CJ? Very clever.

144 Jack Burton  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:33:54pm

re: #139 dugmartsch

I think some people think that talking out of their ass is a sport or something.

145 researchok  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:33:59pm

re: #112 marjoriemoon

Exactly. Hang one painting of each of the impressionists and if you didn't know who painted them, you would think ONE person painted them all. Similar styles and compositions. That's what art is about, inspiration, one from another.

There were schools of art that influenced each other and/or caused the artist to evolve.

There is a reason that artists find their own voice by way of imitation, in which the real learning skills occur. Art schools teach by way of imitation and by having students see through the masters eyes.

146 Ojoe  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:34:09pm
147 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:34:12pm

re: #132 ArchangelMichael

Too late she's already Gaugiun there and back.

Good bosch! You stole my pun!

148 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:34:15pm

re: #127 Guanxi88

That's even worse. If you gotta copy someone, copy a master artist, not a religious kitschmeister.

Totally. If you go to the guy's web site, you can find his Kincade-approved "snowy-house-in-the-woods-with-one-light-on" works.

149 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:34:39pm

re: #137 Rightwingconspirator

You rock Mandy! Thx!

Thank you!

150 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:34:40pm

re: #143 BigPapa

I just noticed it was tagged Nontroversy.

Was that yours CJ? Very clever.

No, I've seen that used in several places recently. It describes this crazy Outrage of the Day cycle that the right wing seems to be stuck in.

151 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:34:41pm

re: #146 Ojoe

I came here for an argument

No you didn't

152 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:35:11pm

re: #142 Charles

You Lizard senses are tingling?

153 Danny  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:35:26pm

re: #150 Charles

No, I've seen that used in several places recently. It describes this crazy Outrage of the Day cycle that the right wing seems to be stuck in.

You mean...you plagiarized it!?!

/

154 Dante41  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:35:31pm

re: #151 Guanxi88

No you didn't

Yes he did.

155 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:35:42pm

re: #142 Charles

Now that the Peace Prize thread is getting old, watch -- the real ranters will start coming out.

Wow, did I ever call that one. Within minutes, there they go.

156 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:35:45pm

re: #148 WindUpBird

Totally. If you go to the guy's web site, you can find his Kincade-approved "snowy-house-in-the-woods-with-one-light-on" works.

Hate that crap so very fiercely. I'm not an artist, but I can appreciate a fair amount. That stuff should be critiqued with ridicule, flamethrowers, and with clowns driving bulldozers behind.

157 psyop  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:35:48pm

My father-in-law, who is a Viet-Nam veteran and artist who has had his work displayed in museums, would be horrified by this.

The idea that you could be disgraced because you are artistically inspired by someone with a bad reputation is ridiculous to the extreme.

I suppose we should hate the artistic work of Van Gogh because he was crazy, or Beethoven because he was a womanizer, or any number of other artistic geniuses because they had some "fault" as described by their contemporary society, just because it is politically expedient to do so...

Poop on the close-minded.

158 doubter4444  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:35:53pm

re: #91 Guanxi88

It could be a larger work, with the painting as part of the installation. If so, then it's groundbreaking in its originality and perfection of execution.

You forgot the sarc tag

159 Henchman Ghazi-808  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:36:17pm

re: #150 Charles

Brilliant it is. Fauxrage is one I'd like to submit for Honco Review.

160 Big Steve  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:36:56pm

Well I certainly don't want to be classified as a "real ranter" but in thinking about the words the Nobel committee put out I was struck by a parallel I experienced in real life. When I was a young manager with a major oil company in the 90's we started the process of globalizing with our EU counterparts. We had one of those elaborate employee rating processes, you know the ones where only 15% can be top performers each year and everyone else is pissed off. Well we had our system set up to evaluate people on what they accomplished in the previous 12 months. When we met with our counterparts in EU their system was set up to rate people on their potential over the next couple of years. We fought over this tooth and nail and never did decide which way was right.

161 doubter4444  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:37:13pm

re: #110 Guanxi88

I was reaching for a joke, and seem to have strained a rotator cuff in the process. It's too perfectly awful to be anything but unselfconsciously what it appears to be. Bad art is usually very sincere.

Exactly, That's why you got to love it.

162 Izzyboy  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:37:21pm

This is a non-starter for me because I have a narrower definition of "art".

163 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:38:57pm

re: #161 doubter4444

Exactly, That's why you got to love it.

I seem to recall that my old stomping ground of Beantown had the Museum of Bad Art. Ahh, here's some from their collection:

[Link: www.museumofbadart.org...]

164 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:39:26pm

By the way, I strongly suspect that the real reason for all this fake outrage is because the Obamas chose a painting by an African American artist -- instead of the "original" by a European white man.

165 dugmartsch  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:39:58pm

re: #157 psyop

Within reason. I'd consider it ethically wrong to draw inspiration from the work of a mass murderer. I'd consider it ethically wrong to draw inspiration from the work of a serial rapist.

But that's just me, if other people don't see an ethical dilemma then so be it.

166 marksstudio  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:40:50pm

Simple artistic credo...Change several notes in a Keith Jarrett composition, claim it as your own with the caveat that you were cognizant of similarities but choose to still make prints, still show the work, as what, being the sincerest form of flattery?

I've moved to a place where I didn't want to go on this...Anybody can own any piece of art they want, they can call it art, craft, functional, whatever. It, art, is subjective. There.

But originality is a thing that can be named. Cited. Compared. Subjectively or otherwise. And owned or created by anyone. But being critiqued is out of the hands of the artist or owner.

As we have seen.

167 Ojoe  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:41:17pm

re: #164 Charles

It would smell like that across the vacuum of outer space.

168 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:41:59pm

re: #97 Killgore Trout

'Al-Qaeda-link' Cern worker held

A particle physicist, huh? Now remember, folks: it's poverty and ignorance which drives people to go on The Jihad. Oh, and Boooshhh!!

169 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:43:26pm

re: #166 marksstudio

Simple artistic credo...Change several notes in a Keith Jarrett composition, claim it as your own with the caveat that you were cognizant of similarities but choose to still make prints, still show the work, as what, being the sincerest form of flattery?

I've moved to a place where I didn't want to go on this...Anybody can own any piece of art they want, they can call it art, craft, functional, whatever. It, art, is subjective. There.

But originality is a thing that can be named. Cited. Compared. Subjectively or otherwise. And owned or created by anyone. But being critiqued is out of the hands of the artist or owner.

As we have seen.

What a ridiculous comparison. Alma Thomas didn't try to claim Matisse's work as her own -- she was completely open about the fact that her painting was derived from the Matisse collage.

You're deepening the fail. This is an extremely common thing in the world of painting.

170 JRCMYP  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:44:30pm

See, this is what happens when one doesn't get a liberal arts education. One ends up not "getting" a lot of things.

Michelle Malkin is a moron.

171 JRCMYP  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:45:38pm

I can't imagine what she'd think of Agnes Martin.

172 Dante41  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:45:53pm

Uh, guys, I think I might have started a Farkalanche. Could someone with TF check it out?

173 Jack Burton  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:45:55pm

re: #164 Charles

By the way, I strongly suspect that the real reason for all this fake outrage is because the Obamas chose a painting by an African American artist -- instead of the "original" by a European white man.

I think there's a little bit of "That's not art!" going on too. Matisse was an impressionist and fauvist and got really abstract toward the end. It's been my experience that ignorant people really do not "get" abstract art and have a visceral reaction to it. I can almost understand this with some of the products of the Dadaism Movement, but still it is art whether you like it or not.

174 marksstudio  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:46:10pm

Addendum: It's not an outrage of the day, we're just discussing it and it's fun.

Unlike politics, everyone can affirm the subjective nature of art, and it's effect on Vietnam veteran artists, ceramicists, mixed media adherents, Modernism, Mondrian, Monet, etc.

That's why there is art history; to catalog what's been done and the stimulating effect on the future direction of work. And the critique of that work.

175 Pacificlady  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:46:22pm

Not an art expert, but I wouldn't purchase either of the paintings. I must admit I agree with Malkin, looks like a copy to me.

176 Henchman Ghazi-808  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:46:58pm

The Nobel is $900K or something. At least they'll have $10K left over to buy another Portugese Water Dog.

177 Cato the Elder  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:47:04pm

re: #48 doubter4444

Only "The Culture of Life" matters to the far right.

This is Approved ART
(reposted from the other day):
Best Painting EVER

That painting explains itself if you run the cursor over it.

Two points:

The black college student on the lower left holds Cleon Skousen's book "The Five Thousand Year Leap".

The professor, middle right, in contrast, "tightly holds his 'Origin of Species' book by Charles Darwin. [...] There is no room for God in education. [...] Notice that he is the only one sitting on the top step. He tries to place himself on an equal footing with God [...]"

Art!

And note once again the helpful creationist hint that "Origin of Species is a book! Just like Kirk "sssnake" Cameron told us. These people are so sharp.

178 psyop  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:47:04pm

re: #165 dugmartsch

Suppose you didn't know the history of a particular artist as you walk through an art museum, and you found a piece that you absolutely loved.

Then days, weeks, or months later you found out it was painted by a pedophile. Or a murder. Or an atheist. Or whatever thing really bothers you.

If you all of a sudden HATE the piece you previously loved, that is a you problem. You must be able to separate the artist from the person.

It certainly does not mean that the artist in question should not be despised, prosecuted or whatever else.

179 Ian MacGregor  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:47:23pm

Hmmm must have been a slow news day. When does the copying of art become plagiarism? Does the disclaimer that a piece was inspired by a previous one end all such talk. If you read the article that inspired this thread, you'll note that the pieces are even more similar after one is rotated.

I don't understand why the choosing of the piece is newsworthy at all. There is no accounting for taste and I don't think the country expects its presidents to be familiar with the great catalogue of paintings produced over the centuries. Its absolutely asinine to use this painting to criticize the president.

But my question still stands, when does copying of art become plagiarism?

The same thing applies to music. A lot of Handel sounds as if was ripped off from Bach, identical guitar riffs make it into different songs and help to classify the music, and Monty Python built a skit around the blues opener

"I woke up dis mornin'

180 marsl  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:48:20pm

Why wasting time and money buying either of this paintings? Hell, just buy a photo of the ONE and just wood frame it.

That's art!

/sarc mode off

181 marksstudio  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:48:40pm

There is no World of Painting. There are artists who happen to paint.

What a great way to spend a rainy late afternoon. I've never posted this much in a year here. Enjoyable.

182 psyop  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:50:01pm

re: #178 psyop

Suppose you didn't know the history of a particular artist as you walk through an art museum, and you found a piece that you absolutely loved.

Then days, weeks, or months later you found out it was painted by a pedophile. Or a murder. Or an atheist. Or whatever thing really bothers you.

If you all of a sudden HATE the piece you previously loved, that is a you problem. You must be able to separate the artist from the person.

It certainly does not mean that the artist in question should not be despised, prosecuted or whatever else.

Or to put it another way...

Suppose it could be proven without a shadow of a doubt that Michelangelo was an avowed satanist that wanted to destroy all vestiges of Christianity. Would the Sistine Chapel be any less magnificent?

In my opinion... NO!

183 tradewind  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:50:20pm

re: #173 ArchangelMichael

Anyone ignorant enough to actually get lathered over this issue probably has no idea who painted either work, so how could it be racially motivated?

184 Danny  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:50:41pm

re: #166 marksstudio

Simple artistic credo...Change several notes in a Keith Jarrett composition, claim it as your own with the caveat that you were cognizant of similarities but choose to still make prints, still show the work, as what, being the sincerest form of flattery?

Actually, Steely Dan did exactly that with Keith Jarrett's "Long As You Know You're Living Yours" when they wrote "Gaucho."

185 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:51:05pm

The definition:

plagiarism %P%ˈplājəˌrizəm%P%
noun

the practice of taking someone else's work or ideas and passing them off as one's own.

That is not what Alma Thomas did.

186 wrenchwench  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:51:23pm

re: #182 psyop

Or to put it another way...

Suppose it could be proven without a shadow of a doubt that Michelangelo was an avowed satanist that wanted to destroy all vestiges of Christianity. Would the Sistine Chapel be any less magnificent?

In my opinion... NO!

It would be an epic fail, if that were his goal.

187 tradewind  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:51:43pm

re: #182 psyop

Well, no. But would he ever have been commissioned, or even moved to create it?
Probably not.

188 Political Atheist  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:51:49pm

Uh, oh! I may have a prejudice here. As a photographer, I get intellectually beat up by "real" artists because my work is necessarily derivative. All I can do is "reproduce" the landscape or whatever in front of me. Boy oh boy was I at the wrong party or what?
OMG I'm the horrible plagiarist! I copied Gods Work! (sunset)

[Link: studio11photography.blogspot.com...]

Okay there's my disclosure and rant so I can now say both those art pieces look to me like kindergarten craft from the post nap session. Paper mache'. Wow this reminds me of the Joe Satriani thing about the music done by Coldplay.

or
[Link: www.nme.com...]

189 psyop  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:51:56pm

re: #186 wrenchwench

LOL...

To be sure. Hyperbole on my part.

190 bosforus  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:52:29pm

Thomas better keep an eye out for Suge Knight.

191 Interested and concerned CDN  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:53:43pm

that someone legitimately sold the first one is amazing...that the second "reimagined" piece sold is utterly indescribable.

192 Gearhead  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:53:57pm

It also bears a remarkable resemblance to something my 5-year old did, but then I have no appreciation for modern art.

193 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:54:24pm

re: #184 Danny

Actually, Steely Dan did exactly that with Keith Jarrett's "Long As You Know You're Living Yours" when they wrote "Gaucho."

Sort of, but not really. The opening section of Gaucho is similar -- but not identical -- to "Long as You Know You're Living Yours" but it quickly changes into something very different.

194 Jack Burton  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:54:49pm

These are not "paintings" either. They are découpage.

195 reine.de.tout  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:55:24pm

re: #192 Gearhead

It also bears a remarkable resemblance to something my 5-year old did, but then I have no appreciation for modern art.

I don't like either of these pieces. I suppose I am an art naif.
Or a stupid southerner. Or both.

196 Political Atheist  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:56:09pm

re: #193 Charles

Whats your take on Satriani and Coldplay? I'm thinking it was unintentional buit I'm no musician. I am a fan of shred.

197 Danny  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:56:09pm

re: #193 Charles

True, but Gaucho can still be viewed as an homage. Jarrett's name is on it, too.

198 psyop  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:56:15pm

re: #187 tradewind

Well, no. But would he ever have been commissioned, or even moved to create it?
Probably not.

No, but perhaps with extraordinary prescience, he painted all of the characters as white people in order to discredit Christianity in the future, considering that no one in the Gospels was even close to Caucasian.

Then again, maybe I am being sarcastic.

199 Land Shark  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:56:30pm

re: #192 Gearhead

It also bears a remarkable resemblance to something my 5-year old did, but then I have no appreciation for modern art.

Same here. I bet your 5 year old's painting is better, too.

Sharky The Art Critic -NOT!

200 J.S.  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:56:50pm

I recall, not that long ago, reading about "Le dejeuner sur l'herbe" ("Luncheon on the Grass") by Manet...This painting caused considerable controversy in its day..then art historians traced its history -- led back to earlier Renaissance works (I believe there may be even earlier "riffs" on this theme) -- and later on Manet's painting became an inspiration for Picasso...Wiki article here...

201 Interested and concerned CDN  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:57:16pm

re: #194 ArchangelMichael

either the "p" should be a "b" or there is an "r" missing somewhere...

202 tradewind  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:57:32pm

re: #155 Charles

What's the deal... they're thinking that the thread and their whine both improve with some age?

203 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:57:33pm

re: #196 Rightwingconspirator

Whats your take on Satriani and Coldplay? I'm thinking it was unintentional buit I'm no musician. I am a fan of shred.

I think Coldplay stole Joe's song, pretty blatantly. Melody and chords.

204 Political Atheist  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:57:38pm

re: #199 Land Shark

I had no idea angry cats could scrapbook. Just another interpretation of the art...

205 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:57:45pm

Man, here we go with the "my kid could make modern art" stuff. Yes, yes, everyone's 3rd grader is totally Mark Rothko...

206 Sharmuta  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:57:50pm

re: #192 Gearhead

It also bears a remarkable resemblance to something my 5-year old did, but then I have no appreciation for modern art.

I happen to love kid art. The more abstract, the better.

207 FrogMarch  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:57:51pm

Neither is art.

"If I can do it, it 'ain't art."

208 Henchman Ghazi-808  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:58:17pm

re: #196 Rightwingconspirator

I am a fan of shred.

You mean this kind of shred? Me too.

209 Political Atheist  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:58:46pm

re: #203 Charles

Thx

210 tradewind  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:58:52pm

re: #195 reine.de.tout
I thought first, Rorschach on steroids.
Then they started reminding me of the broken brick patio we had when I was a child.

211 Interested and concerned CDN  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:59:08pm

re: #205 WindUpBird

Like your "brands" eh?

212 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 2:59:45pm

re: #197 Danny

True, but Gaucho can still be viewed as an homage. Jarrett's name is on it, too.

Definitely -- I agree it was inspired partially by Jarrett's song.

213 sagehen  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:00:32pm

re: #179 Ian MacGregor

I don't understand why the choosing of the piece is newsworthy at all. There is no accounting for taste and I don't think the country expects its presidents to be familiar with the great catalogue of paintings produced over the centuries. Its absolutely asinine to use this painting to criticize the president.

All the pieces they chose came from the National Gallery's collections. Michelle worked with the NG curators to select what they're going to display in the White House. I imagine Barak's view of the matter was "whatever you pick out is fine with me, dear."

I didn't like any of their selections, but that's just me.
This is more my kind of thing.

214 Political Atheist  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:00:54pm

re: #208 BigPapa

uhhh Shred Guitar. That was one weird take on vocals. I better fire up my Steve Vai...

215 tradewind  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:00:58pm

re: #205 WindUpBird

Well... that elephant has actually sold quite a few pieces, you know...
[Link: www.elephantartgallery.com...]
At least it's not a donkey.

216 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:01:05pm

re: #177 Cato the Elder

That painting explains itself if you run the cursor over it.

Two points:

The black college student on the lower left holds Cleon Skousen's book "The Five Thousand Year Leap".

The professor, middle right, in contrast, "tightly holds his 'Origin of Species' book by Charles Darwin. [...] There is no room for God in education. [...] Notice that he is the only one sitting on the top step. He tries to place himself on an equal footing with God [...]"

Hadn't noticed that before, but then again, I was turned off by the painting due to how it looked. So, you inspired me to look a bit more closely at it, Cato.

There were several other things I noticed.

*Satan is put right behind the professor and "Mr. Hollywood".
*Harriet Tubman, Frederick Douglas, and the black Union soldier are all in the very back of the people crowded on the top step. Only their heads are visible.
*He puts a lot of people up there without understanding that more than a few of them would be at each others' throats. I mean, come on, Jefferson and Hamilton were enemies.
*The school teacher's books are limited to basic math and reading. No science or history.
*He has a Christian minister, but no priests or nuns.

In all, it is a terrible piece of art on the surface, very bad history under the surface, and just terrible all around.

217 tradewind  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:01:29pm

re: #212 Charles

AHA! Jarrett. Search for the connections to the Obamas and Ayers.

218 mich-again  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:01:34pm

re: #205 WindUpBird

Man, here we go with the "my kid could make modern art" stuff. Yes, yes, everyone's 3rd grader is totally Mark Rothko...

Art is in the eye of the beholder and if I was beholding that piece of art I'd say it belongs on the fridge!

219 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:01:40pm

re: #185 Charles

The definition:

That is not what Alma Thomas did.

Under US Copyright law the idea of "transformation" underpins "fair use" in incorporating or referencing others' copyrighted works. The basic test is "does the end product intend to supercede the original.

Thomas' work is not intended to supercede Matise's any more than different renderings of the Mona Lisa throughout history were intended to supercede it.

220 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:02:15pm

BREAKING: ZOMBIE SPECIAL REPORT: THE DA VINCI CODE

FRENCH, POSSIBLY GHEY ARTIST FAKES THE MONA LISA. WORLD WIDE COVERUP BY ART HISTORIANS. THE VATICAN MAY BE INVOLVED.

BEHOLD THE EVIDENCE HERE. FAKED PAINTING HERE.

IT IS SINISTERLY TITLED L.H.O.O.Q. MY CRYPTOGRAPHY SKILLZ TELL ME THIS IS SHORT FOR "LIBERAL HUSSEIN OBAMA OWES QUEER (community)".

LEFTY COVERUP. MORE TO FOLLOW. I HAVE THE EVIDENCE, BUT MY LIFE IS IN DANGER. ALBINO MONKS WITH WHIPS ARE FOLLOWING ME.
---
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

221 bosforus  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:02:52pm

My first thought was that I they look like a no brainer puzzle flash game at addictinggames.com.

222 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:03:00pm

re: #196 Rightwingconspirator

Whats your take on Satriani and Coldplay? I'm thinking it was unintentional buit I'm no musician. I am a fan of shred.

I was just thinking that...I love Joe..
I was in a band in High School and we wrote a song called Hey Baby!
The opening lead riff was ripped off from the Woody Pecker song...Nobody ever got it...Dude..Cool lead riff...LOL *shakes head*

223 Rascal One  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:03:00pm

re: #213 sagehen

I LIKE that one!

224 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:03:01pm

re: #215 tradewind

Well... that elephant has actually sold quite a few pieces, you know...
[Link: www.elephantartgallery.com...]
At least it's not a donkey.

Oh, anything will sell! But if you want to compare Matisse to an elephant, I'm not getting on that train with you ;-)

225 Jack Burton  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:03:17pm

re: #207 FrogMarch

My Art History professor said, "To some people, Art is just 'decoration' so if it's not aesthetically pleasing to them, then it's not art to them."

226 Heretic Pride  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:06:36pm

re: #105 WindUpBird

Speaking of derivative works...
Great Cthulhu (after McNaughton)

(not work safe on account of cosmic horror, blood, gore and hilarity)

Now that is art!

227 cenotaphium  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:06:51pm

re: #187 tradewind

Well, no. But would he ever have been commissioned, or even moved to create it?
Probably not.

I don't know. I'm an agnostic atheist, but I draw very intricate scenes from Norse mythology because the symbolism and imagery is so powerful.
Most of the well-known Norse imagery done during the romantic period, and later through the idealistic germanic art was done by Christians. I'm sure there are a lot of artists driven to paint Christian scenes that are not believers. (Are they among the best and most well known? Probably not. But in my example with the Norse imagery, the best and most well known are definitely not believers.)

228 Cato the Elder  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:07:13pm

One of my libtard friends just explained to me that the reason Obama got the NPP is because he's black. She sees no more racism in that remark than Erick Erickson sees in his.

229 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:07:59pm

Andy Warhol - plagiarist.

230 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:08:28pm
231 Political Atheist  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:08:50pm

re: #222 HoosierHoops

You better call Gwen Stefani. She made lots of money on "Hey Baby" at least that was the refrain...

Sorry no link for it too many pop up cell ringer scams.

232 Rascal One  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:08:55pm

I'm looking at those two paintings some more and it dawwned on me that this is what the world looks like to Keith Olberman LoL

233 Idle Drifter  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:09:12pm

I'm not impressed with either painting. Just more making mountains from mole hills.

234 sagehen  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:09:45pm

re: #223 Rascal One

I LIKE that one!

It's David Hockney; he's got a whole bunch of photo collages that I just adore. His paintings not so much.

[Link: www.hockneypictures.com...]

He's still alive; nowadays his medium is iPhone apps.

235 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:09:59pm

re: #225 ArchangelMichael

My Art History professor said, "To some people, Art is just 'decoration' so if it's not aesthetically pleasing to them, then it's not art to them."

Ain't that the truth. Now I'm imagining some nice nuclear family in the suburbs with a giant print of Saturn Devouring His Son or Francis Bacon's screaming Pope Innocent right over the fireplace.

236 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:09:59pm
237 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:10:14pm

re: #225 ArchangelMichael

My Art History professor said, "To some people, Art is just 'decoration' so if it's not aesthetically pleasing to them, then it's not art to them."

Problem is, art really does seem to be in the eye of the beholder. Is Andy Warhol's Campbell soup can a piece of art? Is a photograph of a landscape a piece of art (due to it being photography instead of paint)? Is a freeway overpass a work of art?

Some say yes, some say no. Personally, I would call things such as bridges to be works of art. Bridges like this, this, and this. Yet those who created them usually do not consider themselves to be artists.

238 Dante41  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:10:15pm

re: #233 Idle Drifter

I'm not impressed with either painting. Just more making mountains from mole hills.

Mountains from mole hills? This is making the Himalayas out of a ditch.

239 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:10:29pm

The phrase "qualified art critic" is one that I always take with a grain of salt, because one persons taste in art can be radically different than another's.

So that said, critiquing the artistic tastes of another is rarely productive to begin with.

Personally, I adore the Dutch masters and the northern Renaissance.

I don't really get Jackson Pollack.

So what?

Jackson Pollack has his fans who adore his work. I am not going to say that they are all wrong because there really is no such thing as right or wrong in this case.

Now that said, one can talk about history of art, techniques used etc... and either be correct or talking out of one's ass. In that instance, Ms. Malkin is once again talking out of her skinny little ass. She clearly demonstrates no knowledge of art by her ignorant comments.

But what really bothers me about it is is the "so what" factor. What difference does it make what art the President likes? Does he have to meet the ohhh so high artistic standards of the clearly artistically minded right wing sphere? You know, those people who periodically try to shut down NEA?

Are there no real issues to talk about?

The lack of ability to do so, or form coherent talking points would indicate yes.

So Ms Malkin, please take the time to understand that your opinion about art, or anyone's for that matter, is meaningless in any absolute sense and to try to attack someone else based on what they like is even more meaningless. By doing so, you only make yourself out to be a hateful little harpy with nothing of actual merit to say.

But we knew that already.

For you, I post a little bit of modern art that sums up, in a post modern, yet pastel, style, a perfect comment on the whole affair

Image: the%20finger.jpg

240 Political Atheist  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:11:07pm

re: #236 MandyManners

Not mine!!!
I'll not speak for anyone else.

241 Dante41  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:11:26pm

Ah, nevermind. It got redlit. Oh well.

242 reine.de.tout  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:11:47pm

re: #206 Sharmuta

I happen to love kid art. The more abstract, the better.

I love kid art too, Shar.
In fact, I framed some of my daughter's art and had it in on the walls of my office when I worked. I liked being surrounded by her "stuff".

I also tend to like artists that are local to my area. This guy, Marlowe Parker, is in prison at Angola, but I find his art interesting and unique.

243 TheMatrix31  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:11:55pm

Coldplay BLATANTLY ripped off Satch. BLATANT.

244 SlouchingPoet  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:12:06pm

Is anyone else offended by the fact that a toddler could've painted both?

245 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:13:40pm

This is disturbing but, I am drawn to it.

Image: Garden_delights.jpg

246 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:13:51pm

Here is my son's take on the President's Nobel Peace Prize ...

Until Woody Harrelson wins for his role in Zombieland I will not take this award seriously.

From Facebook.

He's a funny guy.

247 FrogMarch  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:14:07pm

re: #225 ArchangelMichael

My Art History professor said, "To some people, Art is just 'decoration' so if it's not aesthetically pleasing to them, then it's not art to them."

Decorative art doesn't do it for me. But certainly, beauty and inspiration are in the eye of the beholder.

Cut and paste paper - not for me.

248 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:14:12pm

And one more...

NB I am just interested in the images. I have no connection to the sites they come from.
Image: giving-the-finger-gorilla.jpg

249 charles_martel  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:14:15pm

Yeah, it's well beyond an "homage" or "copy", but nothing to rant about. Artists do steal from each other all the time. The GOP continues to be the party of screaming and whining...unfortunately, Obama is the only politico out there who seems like a statesman in his demeanor.

I want more Statesmen. (and Stateswomen!)

250 Basho  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:14:20pm

The outrage should be how these two paintings are even considered art...

251 Idle Drifter  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:14:44pm

re: #238 Dante41

When I look at the Himalayas on maps, they do look like a series of ditches. Snow covered, psychopathic, devourer of races ditches.

252 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:14:48pm

re: #228 Cato the Elder

One of my libtard friends just explained to me that the reason Obama got the NPP is because he's black. She sees no more racism in that remark than Erick Erickson sees in his.

WTF?

253 Sharmuta  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:14:55pm

re: #242 reine.de.tout

I love kid art too, Shar.
In fact, I framed some of my daughter's art and had it in on the walls of my office when I worked. I liked being surrounded by her "stuff".

I also tend to like artists that are local to my area. This guy, Marlowe Parker, is in prison at Angola, but I find his art interesting and unique.

I love local artists too. I used to live in a neighborhood packed with artists and their galleries- had quite a few favorites I'd visit regularly. One I got to see ages ago has become more widely known the last few years. It's cool to say, "I saw him when".

254 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:15:34pm

re: #249 charles_martel

Yeah, it's well beyond an "homage" or "copy", but nothing to rant about. Artists do steal from each other all the time.

Nothing was "stolen." This was a deliberate variation on Matisse's collage, and Thomas didn't try to hide it or claim Matisse's work as her own.

The GOP continues to be the party of screaming and whining...unfortunately, Obama is the only politico out there who seems like a statesman in his demeanor.

I want more Statesmen. (and Stateswomen!)

Indeed.

255 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:15:59pm

re: #231 Rightwingconspirator

You better call Gwen Stefani. She made lots of money on "Hey Baby" at least that was the refrain...

Sorry no link for it too many pop up cell ringer scams.

High school song...
Hey Baby
Why do you stay away?
I said Baby...
Why do you stay away..
I've got a whole lot of loving
Why don't you come around and play
Some guys like Whiskey
Some girls like wine
Why don't you come around here sometime
I'll show you a good time...

Gawd It's embarrassing to remember those words from High School..The whole rock star thing never worked out for me...
*wink*

256 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:17:31pm

re: #244 SlouchingPoet

Is anyone else offended by the fact that a toddler could've painted both?

It burns, it burns. Please just...learn something. About Matisse. That uh.. toddler. Who's also a mater painter and sculptor.

I'm coining Matisse Derangement Syndrome right here.

257 dugmartsch  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:18:37pm

I just want to say once and for all:

Admitting your ignorance does not excuse your ignorance.

258 Jack Burton  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:18:52pm

re: #244 SlouchingPoet

Is anyone else offended by the fact that a toddler could've painted both?

Offended? SRSLY?

259 FrogMarch  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:19:00pm
260 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:19:42pm

re: #228 Cato the Elder

One of my libtard friends just explained to me that the reason Obama got the NPP is because he's black. She sees no more racism in that remark than Erick Erickson sees in his.

Is that your friend being racist? Or your friend reacting cynically to the Norwegian parliament and essentially accusing them of racism?

261 bosforus  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:19:44pm

re: #256 WindUpBird

It burns, it burns. Please just...learn something. About Matisse. That uh.. toddler. Who's also a mater painter and sculptor.

I'm coining Matisse Derangement Syndrome right here.

I agree. It's one thing for a baby to actually paint something like this. It's entirely different when someone chooses to paint like this. That may sound silly to some but it's true.

262 Idle Drifter  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:20:34pm

re: #226 Heretic Pride

Now that is art!

What ever you do, do not look at Cthulhu directly in the face or...look at the stars...

263 dugmartsch  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:20:42pm

Also:
Shallow and pedantic.

264 Cato the Elder  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:21:27pm

re: #260 WindUpBird

Is that your friend being racist? Or your friend reacting cynically to the Norwegian parliament and essentially accusing them of racism?

Actually, I think she's just being an idiot.

265 right_wing2  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:21:49pm

Plagiarism or not, they're both butt ugly, IMHO.

266 jaunte  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:22:07pm

re: #256 WindUpBird

One reason for comments like that is that most people's art education stops when they are toddlers. You can see the results of that in some of the Tea Party signage.

267 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:23:02pm

re: #259 FrogMarch

Some of Matisse's better work.

More representational ≠ better. I think all his work has merit. The abstracts are their own thing, just like his portraits are their own thing. He had different motivations for each, different things he wanted to express or display.

268 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:23:20pm

re: #264 Cato the Elder

Actually, I think she's just being an idiot.

That could be true too. 8-)

269 psyop  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:23:26pm

re: #239 LudwigVanQuixote

The phrase "qualified art critic" is one that I always take with a grain of salt, because one persons taste in art can be radically different than another's.

So that said, critiquing the artistic tastes of another is rarely productive to begin with.

Personally, I adore the Dutch masters and the northern Renaissance.

I don't really get Jackson Pollack.

So what?

Upding for the first paragraph.

Question for the fourth. Have you seen Pollack in person (the paintings, not the man)? It really is much different from reprints. If you have, then your first paragraph comes into play.

270 dugmartsch  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:25:31pm

re: #60 Guanxi88

The word yer looking for here is contemporary art. Modern art is pretty sick awesome and I'm sure you dig plenty of it.

271 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:25:54pm

re: #261 bosforus

I agree. It's one thing for a baby to actually paint something like this. It's entirely different valid when someone chooses to paint like this. That may sound silly to some but it's true.

FTFY ;-)

And whoever says art can't sometimes be silly and still be art is not an artist.

272 Altermite  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:26:06pm

So I'm apparently on one of the obama listservs from the campaign. Received a mass email on the nobel prize award.


This morning, Michelle and I awoke to some surprising and humbling news. At 6 a.m., we received word that I'd been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for 2009.

To be honest, I do not feel that I deserve to be in the company of so many of the transformative figures who've been honored by this prize -- men and women who've inspired me and inspired the entire world through their courageous pursuit of peace.

But I also know that throughout history the Nobel Peace Prize has not just been used to honor specific achievement; it's also been used as a means to give momentum to a set of causes.

etc.

273 bosforus  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:27:16pm

Can we all just agree that Magic Eye is the greatest art form of the 20th century?
Image: file0836.jpg

274 cenotaphium  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:27:32pm

re: #256 WindUpBird

It burns, it burns. Please just...learn something. About Matisse. That uh.. toddler. Who's also a mater painter and sculptor.

I'm coining Matisse Derangement Syndrome right here.

I think it's pretty obvious this is a twofer in that people get to critizise art they don't like and a president they don't like either. Keeping it in the realm of subjective & unsubstantiated just makes the deal that much sweeter.

Me, I don't like modern art. But I'm not prepared to don the rhetoric of an art critic to show my distaste for it, simply because.. I'm not an art critic.
I guess people do this all the time (this movie sucked, BMW makes the best cars, the defense budget should clearly scrap the Osprey and fund more drones), but it's usually more transparent when it's not regarding art.

275 reine.de.tout  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:28:04pm

re: #267 WindUpBird

More representational ≠ better. I think all his work has merit. The abstracts are their own thing, just like his portraits are their own thing. He had different motivations for each, different things he wanted to express or display.

Different things will appeal, I guess,to different folks.

Of his "cut-out" works shown in the Wiki piece you linked to, I prefer these one two three

276 KingKenrod  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:28:31pm

I like the Matisse. Matisse was 83 when he created it.

277 avspatti  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:28:41pm

Perhaps if they were turned the same way, it would be even more obvious. Reminds me of some of Ward Churchill's 'creations'.

278 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:29:11pm

re: #50 Ojoe

Whites stole the pointed arch from the Persians (etc etc)

Not true! The arch was a Roman invention, stolen and screwed up by the Islamists, who couldn't even keep it round on the top. Now liberal dhimmi Orientalists make us use the pointy arches to get us ready for life in the caliphate!

///'scuse me. Channeling Rodan there for a minute. Hate it when that happens.

279 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:29:22pm

re: #277 avspatti

Perhaps if they were turned the same way, it would be even more obvious. Reminds me of some of Ward Churchill's 'creations'.

What would be even more obvious?

280 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:30:57pm

re: #65 Charles

By the way, I know this probably makes me a librul of some kind, but I like both of these paintings.

Probably makes you more cultured than me. I don't really get either of them. They don't upset me, they just don't attract me much.

281 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:31:03pm

re: #277 avspatti

Perhaps if they were turned the same way, it would be even more obvious. Reminds me of some of Ward Churchill's 'creations'.

And by the way -- they ARE turned the same way. Both of them are right side up.

282 SixDegrees  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:31:09pm

re: #49 NYC Conservative

I'm not sure what the word "riff" or "re-imagining" is supposed to mean.
It's an exact copy.

Riff implies it is mocking, or humorous. Reimagining implies that its inspired by, like the new Star Trek movie compared to the old ones. It's not shot by shot reconstruction.

Maybe it's just me and my slow work day.

It is not an exact copy. There are many differences.

"Riff" is used in the same sense that it is used in music, particularly in jazz. In this case, the "riff" is both the components of the piece and the piece as a whole, and, just as with jazz themes and compositions, they are borrowed, rearranged and modified to form a variation on the original artist's theme.

All of this is explained in the catalog, which accompanied the piece itself in a major exhibition of Thomas' work over ten years ago, in which the artist openly acknowledges drawing from Matisse's work. This sort of reworking is extremely common in nearly all modern art forms, from visual arts through music and even in literature.

Please read through the catalog that Malkin so idiotically linked to. It provides an excellent analysis of the artist's work and the rationale behind much of it.

283 Summer Seale  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:31:35pm

The irony is...

...eighty years ago, all these ultra-conservatives would have been buying tickets to the mob that burned Nu bleu in effigy. In fact, if you've ever seen Pleasantville, you'd know exactly what I was talking about.

Now, they're just using him for their own dirty political agenda.

284 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:31:49pm

re: #269 psyop

Upding for the first paragraph.

Question for the fourth. Have you seen Pollack in person (the paintings, not the man)? It really is much different from reprints. If you have, then your first paragraph comes into play.

Yes I have seen some of his work. I do not take some orthodox stand that it is terrible. However, it just does not move me in the way I have seen others moved by it. That does not make either them or me right or wrong.

The best and most honest statement about art ever made was, "I know what I like."

285 fizzlogic  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:32:20pm

You do realize this is dog whistle racism...

We have a black President desecrating the walls of the White House with artwork from illegitimate "artists" that plagiarize real legit art.

286 SixDegrees  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:33:33pm

re: #244 SlouchingPoet

Is anyone else offended by the fact that a toddler could've painted both?

Are you aware that one of them is not a painting?

287 Jack Burton  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:33:44pm

re: #269 psyop

Upding for the first paragraph.

Question for the fourth. Have you seen Pollack in person (the paintings, not the man)? It really is much different from reprints. If you have, then your first paragraph comes into play.

If I could own a Pollack original I would. The prints don't do it for me. They miss the point. It's not something that is easy to explain either.

288 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:33:47pm

re: #285 trendsurfer

You do realize this is dog whistle racism...

We have a black President desecrating the walls of the White House with artwork from illegitimate "artists" that plagiarize real legit art.

Yep that is the long and the short of it...

He also has a fleet of mutant cubscouts...

289 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:34:04pm

re: #275 reine.de.tout

Different things will appeal, I guess,to different folks.

Of his "cut-out" works shown in the Wiki piece you linked to, I prefer these one two three

Personally, I am mostly a fan of his painted nudes, but that's probably because I paint in a similar way. Lots of figurative work, lots of layers of texture (though mostly digital these days) He's getting dinged because "a toddler could do it", but that's one of the reasons his cutouts are so successful, they're childlike in the best way.

290 charles_martel  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:34:11pm

re: #254 Charles

Nothing was "stolen."

Well, speaking from an artist's perspective, unless it is stated that it is a "variation" of another artist's work in the title of the work, or in the artists statement, it's, let's say, "borrowed". Artists make references to other works, especially dead artists, all the time. It's the job of an art critic to be literate enough to point that out and discuss it intelligently.

Personally, I don't see anything new brought to the table by the new artist. So, for me, it's "stolen" because it is a blatant reference without any substantial new artistic contribution on the artist's part. Simply changing the colors around does not make it worthy as a "variation on a theme". If he had changed it enough to make it his own, or to add a new aesthetic style or perspective, then I would call it a valid reference. But the artist didn't do that.

291 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:34:20pm

re: #285 trendsurfer

You do realize this is dog whistle racism...

We have a black President desecrating the walls of the White House with artwork from illegitimate "artists" that plagiarize real legit art.

I'm sure a lot of people will argue with you over that, but I agree.

My earlier comment: [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

292 [deleted]  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:35:03pm
293 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:35:20pm

re: #290 charles_martel

Sigh.

Please read the catalog I linked in my post. You'll see how wrong this is. I hope.

294 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:35:55pm

re: #288 LudwigVanQuixote

Yep that is the long and the short of it...

He also has a fleet of mutant cubscouts...

Am I missing something in No. 285?

295 SixDegrees  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:36:24pm

re: #275 reine.de.tout

Different things will appeal, I guess,to different folks.

Of his "cut-out" works shown in the Wiki piece you linked to, I prefer these one two three

As I mentioned in my post downstairs, I had the pleasure of seeing a major exhibition of Matisse's cutout series many years ago. One thing you simply can't prepare yourself for when you see them in person: many of them are utterly huge, some as large as 20 x 30 feet.

But dig up my post below for more. Let's just say I really liked the exhibit.

296 dugmartsch  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:36:51pm

re: #179 Ian MacGregor

Here's 20 bucks that says Obama and Michelle know much, much more about the "great catalog of paintings produced over the centuries" than most people without professional interest in the art world.

297 reine.de.tout  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:37:03pm

re: #289 WindUpBird

Personally, I am mostly a fan of his painted nudes, but that's probably because I paint in a similar way. Lots of figurative work, lots of layers of texture (though mostly digital these days) He's getting dinged because "a toddler could do it", but that's one of the reasons his cutouts are so successful, they're childlike in the best way.

Those cut-outs are "child-like" I guess.
But no child could have done them.
The blue nude is so beautifully graceful (not trained here, that's the only thing I can think of to describe it).

298 psyop  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:37:25pm

re: #284 LudwigVanQuixote

Yes I have seen some of his work. I do not take some orthodox stand that it is terrible. However, it just does not move me in the way I have seen others moved by it. That does not make either them or me right or wrong.

The best and most honest statement about art ever made was, "I know what I like."

For me it is certainly interesting. My father-in-law who is an accomplished artist (hung in honest-to-goodness art museums) HATES Pollack, and I find his work compelling. What the heck do I know?? I am merely a prol, who knows what he likes.

Still, it makes for some interesting conversations.

299 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:38:01pm

re: #235 WindUpBird

Ain't that the truth. Now I'm imagining some nice nuclear family in the suburbs with a giant print of Saturn Devouring His Son or Francis Bacon's screaming Pope Innocent right over the fireplace.

Well, like I was saying yesterday--there's art I love, and then there's art I could stand to have in the house. Some of it overlaps, but as spectacularly good as I think Chagall's "White Crucifixion" is, I couldn't have a copy at home.

300 J.S.  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:38:04pm

re: #294 MandyManners

I believe you have missed the point (which I interpreted as: the "critiques" by Malkin, et al, being made are a cover for more sinister suggestions -- that the artist (because of race) isn't a "real" artist, etc...that's the subtext going on here. Oh, and the poster, I don't believe is approving of this at all...but disparaging such attitudes.)

301 SixDegrees  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:38:35pm

re: #277 avspatti

Perhaps if they were turned the same way, it would be even more obvious. Reminds me of some of Ward Churchill's 'creations'.

What would be more obvious?

Thomas openly acknowledges that this piece is derived directly from Matisse's work. It isn't a secret, and he isn't attempting to pass the components and composition off as his own. I'll refer you to the catalog text, referenced earlier, for a detailed exposition on the work's history and derivation.

302 fizzlogic  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:39:26pm

re: #294 MandyManners

Am I missing something in No. 285?

Evidently...

303 SixDegrees  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:39:29pm

re: #290 charles_martel

Well, speaking from an artist's perspective, unless it is stated that it is a "variation" of another artist's work in the title of the work, or in the artists statement, it's, let's say, "borrowed". Artists make references to other works, especially dead artists, all the time. It's the job of an art critic to be literate enough to point that out and discuss it intelligently.

Personally, I don't see anything new brought to the table by the new artist. So, for me, it's "stolen" because it is a blatant reference without any substantial new artistic contribution on the artist's part. Simply changing the colors around does not make it worthy as a "variation on a theme". If he had changed it enough to make it his own, or to add a new aesthetic style or perspective, then I would call it a valid reference. But the artist didn't do that.

There's a detailed statement of the artist's intentions in the catalog description, cited above.

304 Danny  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:39:53pm

re: #294 MandyManners

Am I missing something in No. 285?

I am guessing you thought the "desecrated" description was the poster's opinion, which it was not.

305 psyop  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:39:55pm

re: #287 ArchangelMichael

If I could own a Pollack original I would. The prints don't do it for me. They miss the point. It's not something that is easy to explain either.

Exactly... I didn't get it until I could stand at several angles with respect to the canvas. Then it made sense.

To me. Others still hate Pollack.

meh

306 Ziggy Standard  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:40:33pm

Repost from dead thread :

I just had a vision - a premonition perhaps, of Michelle Malkin's next blockbusting Obama scoop :

"Just discovered on Obama's I-pod!

Astute readers who are knowledgable in the world of music may discern that this song bears a striking resemblance to a song of the same name by the white popular folk singer John Denver. The black artistes so evidently favoured by the Obamas have blatantly plagiarised this fine American song, apparently thinking to distract us from the truth of its origins with 'reggae' (wikipedia: reggae) stylings, and the nefarious device of changing the lyrics "West Virginia" to "West Jamaica".

Maybe there's a perfectly valid, non racist reason why they would pass over the original, white version of the song in favour of a plagiarised black version. But sharp as I am, I can't for the life of me see it..."

307 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:41:04pm

Before I go for Shabbos, I must reveal one more secret of Remulak.

The reason that agent Obama has put this art up is simple. It is a terrible psyop to embarrass right wing politicians when they visit the white house.

Do to a special combination of chemicals in the chemtrails and other additives to the drinking water, all humans are now prone to uncontrollable flatulence - when triggered by their anal probes.

This art, will activate the probe upon viewing if it is heard in conjunction with a certain ultrasonic signal.

This way, should a right wing patriot, start getting uncomfortably close to the truth in some speech, all that Agent Obama needs to do is push a button and then the speech of that brave and loyal, but doomed American will be drowned out by noisy, noxious and uncontrollable farting.

This will discredit them and put an end to their claims being heard. It doubles as a psyop, because whatever truth those patriotic Americans have discovered will now be associated permanently in the public mind with farting.

Also a note to all Lizards...

Be certain to put on your super sekrit "green" glasses to see the sekrit message in this art.

All Power to Remulak! Have a good weekend and have a bagel!

308 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:42:17pm

re: #294 MandyManners

Am I missing something in No. 285?

I am explaining the evil sekrit powers and plots of Agent Obama.

When teh Zionist, communist cub scout cyborgs come for the right wing, you will see... :)

309 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:43:06pm

re: #302 trendsurfer

Evidently...

I apologize. I've tried not to let my pent-up anger get the best of me. I failed.

310 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:43:40pm

*slinking away*

311 sergeant major  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:44:00pm

Oh no! Looks like I won't be publishing my two year old's painting of "shapes and sizes"

312 fizzlogic  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:44:00pm

re: #309 MandyManners

Don't worry, I'm used to be yelled at. :)

313 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:44:11pm

re: #310 MandyManners

*slinking away*

PLease don't. I rather like you.

314 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:45:09pm

Ohh one request before I am out for the weekend... Do please keep track of the AGW threads and deal with any last minute last word posters and their crap for me :)

Thanks.

315 SixDegrees  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:45:15pm

re: #284 LudwigVanQuixote

Yes I have seen some of his work. I do not take some orthodox stand that it is terrible. However, it just does not move me in the way I have seen others moved by it. That does not make either them or me right or wrong.

The best and most honest statement about art ever made was, "I know what I like."

I wrote about Pollack yesterday, and how his work was pretty much incomprehensible to me until I heard the following account of it's development. Sorry to those who've already read it...

Pollock spent years trying to develop a unique personal style that would set him apart from the rest of the art world, something fiercely original that had never been done before. At the time, however, Picasso's work cast a long shadow over the art world, and everything Pollock produced ultimately reminded him of work that Picasso had already done - but better. Increasingly frustrated at Picasso's seemingly unshakable influence over his own work, Pollock one day snapped, threw the canvas on the floor in a rage and began flinging fistfuls of paint at it, shouting "Damn Picasso!" with each toss, until he collapsed in exhaustion.

When he recovered and examined his canvas, now bearing the fruits of his raw emotional outburst, he realized he had found his idiom, and Abstract Expressionism was born.

Pollock is not one of my favorite artists. But after hearing this story, you'll never look at one of his paintings in quite the same way again.

316 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:45:19pm

re: #307 LudwigVanQuixote

Before I go for Shabbos, I must reveal one more secret of Remulak.

The reason that agent Obama has put this art up is simple. It is a terrible psyop to embarrass right wing politicians when they visit the white house.

Do to a special combination of chemicals in the chemtrails and other additives to the drinking water, all humans are now prone to uncontrollable flatulence - when triggered by their anal probes.

This art, will activate the probe upon viewing if it is heard in conjunction with a certain ultrasonic signal.

This way, should a right wing patriot, start getting uncomfortably close to the truth in some speech, all that Agent Obama needs to do is push a button and then the speech of that brave and loyal, but doomed American will be drowned out by noisy, noxious and uncontrollable farting.

This will discredit them and put an end to their claims being heard. It doubles as a psyop, because whatever truth those patriotic Americans have discovered will now be associated permanently in the public mind with farting.

Also a note to all Lizards...

Be certain to put on your super sekrit "green" glasses to see the sekrit message in this art.

All Power to Remulak! Have a good weekend and have a bagel!

Hate Bagels! I'd rather eat a brick with cheese...:)
May God Bless you Ludwig on this Shabbos.. Return to us refreshed and full of joy..
Good Night

317 Cato the Elder  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:45:43pm

re: #314 LudwigVanQuixote

Ohh one request before I am out for the weekend... Do please keep track of the AGW threads and deal with any last minute last word posters and their crap for me :)

Thanks.

The Catobot is on the job!

318 Jack Burton  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:46:19pm

re: #310 MandyManners

*slinking away*

Don't worry about it. I called someone a douchebag a few weeks back because I misinterpreted what they posted and thought they were saying something racist. I was the douchebag on that occasion temporarily. We all do it or something like it at least once.

319 Ziggy Standard  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:46:49pm

Random musical interlude: White Lines - Don't Do It

320 psyop  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:47:41pm

re: #314 LudwigVanQuixote

Ohh one request before I am out for the weekend... Do please keep track of the AGW threads and deal with any last minute last word posters and their crap for me :)

Thanks.

Be assured, if I have anything to say with respect to my AGW agnosticism, I will confront you directly, and not hide behind 3 day old posts.

321 SixDegrees  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:47:45pm

re: #266 jaunte

One reason for comments like that is that most people's art education stops when they are toddlers. You can see the results of that in some of the Tea Party signage.

Damn. I ran out of updings for this comment. Well played.

322 charles_martel  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:47:45pm

I gotta catch a bus. I will read the catalog when I get home.

But I still don't think she contributed much new. That's just my personal opinion. I admit I have a bias against most abstract work.

323 Ojoe  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:51:37pm

re: #5 Dr. Shalit

Also, the standard tractor airplane configuration is French, from M. Bleriot.
Bleriot

324 dugmartsch  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:53:14pm

re: #207 FrogMarch

It's funny because I've had this discussion with my girlfriend quite a bit. She owns an art gallery in brooklyn and i'm never really gotten into art (my mind is a bit too literal). I'm a words guy. My favorite painting (Sea Monster, Turner) is a thousand times less significant to me than my favorite poem (Degrees of grey in philipsburg, Hugo).

But in the age of photogrophy what exactly would the point of photo realism be? I like art that evinces clear technical skill, too. But making things look like photographs isn't evidence of technical skill, though it might hint at masochism.

That's like saying that because Frost's fire and ice is really short and has lots of cute rhymes in it your 10 year old could write it, and using that as a reason to dismiss it as a work of art.

Please. Just because you don't appreciate it doesn't make it insignificant. In fact, and maybe this is my prejudice showing, but ignorant people not seeing any value in it is part of what makes it valuable.

325 Ojoe  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:53:48pm

re: #236 MandyManners

Yes

326 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:54:40pm

But if it had to perish twice,
I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction, ice
is also great, and would suffice.

That one?

327 Ojoe  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:56:33pm

re: #326 SanFranciscoZionist

"It is so cold here at the end of all the ages."

—The Ice Queen in The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe.

C.S. Lewis

328 Cathypop  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:57:04pm

Okay. Here's my idea. These morons need to binge drink for a week to get rid of all their brain cells. They don't know how to use them correctly so no big loss. I'll buy the first round.

329 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:57:53pm

re: #318 ArchangelMichael

Don't worry about it. I called someone a douchebag a few weeks back because I misinterpreted what they posted and thought they were saying something racist. I was the douchebag on that occasion temporarily. We all do it or something like it at least once.

LOL
Remember the Democratic Convention in Denver? I posted a joke that the GOP should hire the Grateful Dead a mile outside the city...Nobody would show up to elect a nominee...
Man did I get trashed and down dinged...IT WAS A JOKE PEOPLE!
It was so funny...Lucky.. dings don't leave marks...Don't mess with dead heads on LGF.. There are just a little bit 'S-e-n-s-i-t-i-v-e' here...
/When losing an argument here do what I do...Tell a deadhead joke... Apparently there is no defence...:)

330 dugmartsch  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:58:16pm

re: #326 SanFranciscoZionist

That's him.

331 wrenchwench  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:58:23pm

I like Wayne Thiebaud.

Mmmm, pie!

332 Ojoe  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:59:14pm

re: #329 HoosierHoops

What did the hippies say at the Dead concert when their weed ran out?


Man, this music sucks!

333 SixDegrees  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 4:00:30pm

re: #271 WindUpBird

FTFY ;-)

And whoever says art can't sometimes be silly and still be art is not an artist.

And on that note, I'm pleased to mention one of my all-time favorite paintings, Landscape with the Fall of Icarus (possibly) by Pieter Bruegel sometime in the 1500s, a representation of the famous tale of Icarus flying with manmade wings to close to the sun, against his father's wishes, and plummeting to his death as a result.

You can get a glimpse of Icarus in the lower-right corner, just below the ship.

I laughed for hours after first seeing this work. It still makes me chuckle.

334 [deleted]  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 4:04:35pm
335 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 4:08:36pm

Programming Note
***
Tonight is the Final Basketball game for the WNBA Championship.. Our super Women could be World Champions in a few hours...People are jacked here ( Indiana..Basketball nuts..Who would thunk it)
The funny thing is...My Buddies are totally stoked...We are supporting our Women's team...Go Fever!
Even Keith when he said ' If the Fever win the Championship... there will be a million women in the City for the party!'
Yes Keith...
' I could get laid!'
/ There is always one guy in the group..Always one guy

336 tradewind  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 4:08:52pm

re: #228 Cato the Elder

The Norwegian who made the actual announcement has just clarified the choice. Sometimes, they want to give the peace prize in order to' encourage and enhance ' the recipient in his or her efforts.
So it's a Nobel Attaboy.
Seems more fitting now.

337 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 4:08:58pm

"Posts that contain phone numbers, street addresses, email addresses or other personal information will also be deleted..."

338 eff  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 4:09:20pm

320+ comments later, the most sensible comment here is still comment #1.

339 [deleted]  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 4:10:38pm
340 SixDegrees  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 4:11:52pm

re: #337 Charles

"Posts that contain phone numbers, street addresses, email addresses or other personal information will also be deleted..."

Oops - just quoted that post. Feel free to remove my copy of it, although the software filter caught the phone number already.

341 tradewind  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 4:14:19pm

re: #224 WindUpBird

Not at all, I was comparing the kindergardener/toddler paintings to the elephants'.

342 SixDegrees  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 4:14:58pm

re: #336 tradewind

The Norwegian who made the actual announcement has just clarified the choice. Sometimes, they want to give the peace prize in order to' encourage and enhance ' the recipient in his or her efforts.
So it's a Nobel Attaboy.
Seems more fitting now.

I've been surprised by the lack of organized talking points by the committee. Surely they knew that this choice would be controversial. I would have expected them to have their rationalizations for it in good order prior to the announcement. Instead, there's been a steady trickle of disparate, somewhat contradictory explanations given for the choice throughout the day. Did the demand for explanation really take them so much by surprise that they were this unprepared for it?

343 SixDegrees  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 4:17:02pm

re: #331 wrenchwench

I like Wayne Thiebaud.

Mmmm, pie!

I had a calendar of his work last year (2008). I wouldn't mind seeing more of it.

344 tradewind  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 4:20:07pm

re: #231 Rightwingconspirator
Then Gwen must have been Channeling Bruce.

345 Political Atheist  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 4:24:14pm

re: #337 Charles

My apologies for posting the Libertarian Party Press Release (with addess & phone) calling for Nobel Peace prizes to be awarded on April 1st. Instead I post their link so you can glean what you like yourselves. My bad, I did not ponder the rules carefully enough. I'm sure its a wise policy even for press releases.

[Link: www.lp.org...]

Mea Culpa

346 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 4:32:12pm

re: #333 SixDegrees

Hee! That's genius. :D

347 tradewind  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 4:35:10pm

re: #342 SixDegrees
I don't think they cared.
It's their prize, they can do what they want, but to pretend that this one was actually awarded for efforts made on behalf of world peace is ludicrous.
They should have just been honest, and said ' we 're one with the KoolAid drinkers, we love you Obama, and here is a token of our affection to encourage you to keep the faith. Plus, does this not go a long way towards expunging our post-colonial guilt?... and by the way, screw you, George Bush, you cowboy.'

348 Political Atheist  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 4:42:38pm

re: #340 SixDegrees

I put up a proper post on this, what did you have to say?

349 Kragar  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 5:12:02pm

On a purely artistic note, I think both pictures are crap.

350 SlouchingPoet  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 5:20:14pm

Are you aware that one of them is not a painting?re: #286 SixDegrees

Nope. What is it? Other than being blocks of color.

351 SlouchingPoet  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 5:22:34pm

re: #256 WindUpBird

It burns, it burns. Please just...learn something. About Matisse. That uh.. toddler. Who's also a mater painter and sculptor.

I'm coining Matisse Derangement Syndrome right here.


You can call him the master of margarita mix, it's still just a jumble of blocks. Was there ever a time when art wasn't kitsch?

352 funky chicken  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 5:23:06pm

re: #65 Charles

By the way, I know this probably makes me a librul of some kind, but I like both of these paintings.

Eh, I must be a luddite because I don't like either one. I'm OK with that.

353 funky chicken  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 5:27:24pm

His Still Life with Geraniums is good though.

Image: File:Matisse518.jpg

354 Cato the Elder  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 5:30:21pm

re: #336 tradewind

The Norwegian who made the actual announcement has just clarified the choice. Sometimes, they want to give the peace prize in order to' encourage and enhance ' the recipient in his or her efforts.
So it's a Nobel Attaboy.
Seems more fitting now.

I wonder if John McCain, with exactly the same time in office and exactly the same outcomes in terms of peace, would have qualified.

We'll never know, obviously.

355 BarackObama  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 5:34:24pm

Not plagiarism...

I would consider this an artists equivalent of karaoke.

But I dont happen to like the song.

356 Fenris  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 5:34:39pm

Two things: first, Michelle Malkin is defending a cheese-eating Frenchie? Doggurnit, them libruls have REALLY gone un-American this time! Wait, she's not liberal?

Second, Matisse's painting was released in 1953, during the pop art movement. And since pop art has this tendency to take elements from other, usually commercial, media...further, as a Fauvist, Matisse had this equally annoying tendency to draw from elements of postimpressionism.

And I blew over $20,000, four years, and counting for this tidbit. Well spent.

357 SixDegrees  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 5:39:54pm

re: #350 SlouchingPoet

Are you aware that one of them is not a painting?

Nope. What is it? Other than being blocks of color.

So you're really not even aware of what it is you're attempting to criticize.
re: #348 Rightwingconspirator

I put up a proper post on this, what did you have to say?

Only that, from a purely pedantic view, only the Peace Prize is troublesome; the bulk of the Nobel Prizes are awarded to well-deserving recipients. Let's not taint those because of the abject failings of the Committee when it comes to awarding the Peace Prize.

358 mje1  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 5:50:22pm

Plagiarism is still plagiarism, and this is not a homage or "inspired" by Matisse. It's a traced copy, for goodness sake. What I'd like to know is, who decided that this cheap copy belonged in a National museum? ;-)

359 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 6:01:35pm

re: #358 mje1

6 comments in two years. Excellent. Here they come.

360 SixDegrees  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 6:05:37pm

re: #358 mje1

Plagiarism is still plagiarism, and this is not a homage or "inspired" by Matisse. It's a traced copy, for goodness sake. What I'd like to know is, who decided that this cheap copy belonged in a National museum? ;-)

Uh, no, it isn't a "traced copy," and it isn't plagiarism. You can read a detailed history of the work and it's derivation in the exhibition catalog linked in this thread's headliner. Or you could attempt to do more than glance at the pair for more than a microsecond after letting Michelle Malkin tell you what to see and think and simply note that fact that your claim is silly beyond belief.

As for why this and other pieces of the artist's work belong in a national museum, the exhibition catalog also does an excellent job of detailing that, as well. It is several paragraphs long, however, and takes more than 10 seconds to read through, especially if the reader attempts comprehension at the same time. And there's no blog or cartoon version available to simplify it for those who find actual understanding difficult.

362 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 6:13:57pm

re: #360 SixDegrees

Uh, no, it isn't a "traced copy," and it isn't plagiarism. You can read a detailed history of the work and it's derivation in the exhibition catalog linked in this thread's headliner. Or you could attempt to do more than glance at the pair for more than a microsecond after letting Michelle Malkin tell you what to see and think and simply note that fact that your claim is silly beyond belief.

Aw, come on! Reading is teh hard!

363 SixDegrees  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 6:16:16pm

re: #362 Charles

Aw, come on! Reading is teh hard!

Ya gotta love it when the kids who used to eat their crayons in art class suddenly decide they're art critics.

364 jaunte  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 6:18:53pm

Michelle Malkin might want to look into this larger example of copying, once this artrage dies down:

The White House was constructed after the creation of Washington DC by the congressional law of December 1790. After a contest, James Hoban, an Irish American, was chosen and the construction began in October 1792. The building that he had conceived was modeled upon the first and second floors of the Leinster House, a ducal palace in Dublin, Ireland which is now the seat of the Irish Parliament.[Link: www.american-architecture.info...]

365 Fenris  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 6:27:40pm

re: #364 jaunte

Michelle Malkin might want to look into this larger example of copying, once this artrage dies down:

It's Obama's fault. Somehow. We'll find out how eventually, but just, like, trust us.

366 pyrodoctor  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 6:35:06pm

Damn! I bet I could look through my kids' 3rd grade art class projects and found the same thing. It is plagiarism. But why not plagiarize something worth plagiarizing? Just cause people spend lots of money on that crap doesn't mean that both artists weren't hacks. It is kind of analogous to the musician who sued ColdPlay last year for supposedly stealing the melody of their song. When you listened to it the melody in question was so banal and trivial, that it is hard to imagine people fighting over it. I guess the haters need something to talk about.

367 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 6:35:28pm

re: #245 MandyManners

This is disturbing but, I am drawn to it.

[Link: upload.wikimedia.org...]

I love that too. Hieronymous Bosch's Garden of Earthly Delights. Adore it. Love Bosch in general.

If you like that, you might like some Van Eyck. Nothing is like Bosch, but this has a lot of the same eerie clarity and precision, and nightmarish imagery.

Last Judgement

This one also: The Crucifixtion, although its peculiar horror I think comes from the sense of how ordinary the event was for some of the ghoulish spectators.

368 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 6:37:23pm

re: #366 pyrodoctor

Damn! I bet I could look through my kids' 3rd grade art class projects and found the same thing. It is plagiarism. But why not plagiarize something worth plagiarizing? Just cause people spend lots of money on that crap doesn't mean that both artists weren't hacks. It is kind of analogous to the musician who sued ColdPlay last year for supposedly stealing the melody of their song. When you listened to it the melody in question was so banal and trivial, that it is hard to imagine people fighting over it. I guess the haters need something to talk about.

Ah jeez. You may not like either work, but Matisse and Thomas aren't 'hacks'. Please.

369 jaunte  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 6:42:37pm

re: #366 pyrodoctor

I bet I could look through my kids' 3rd grade art class projects and found the same thing.

I think you copied this thought from someone else.

370 Ziggy Standard  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 7:00:58pm

re: #368 iceweasel

Ah jeez. You may not like either work, but Matisse and Thomas aren't 'hacks'. Please.

Some people think art is measured only by the level of technical difficulty required to produce it - hence the contempt many people seem to have for Matisse's collage. I always find it interesting that people only ever seem to complain about art when it is being spoken of as 'Art' - stick it on the front of a cd with a band's name at the top and everyone is happy with it all of a sudden.

371 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 7:03:54pm

re: #370 Jimmah

Some people think art is measured only by the level of technical difficulty required to produce it - hence the contempt many people seem to have for Matisse's collage. I always find it interesting that people only ever seem to complain about art when it is being spoken of as 'Art' - stick it on the front of a cd with a band's name at the top and everyone is happy with it all of a sudden.

Well, not everyone... :)

372 doubter4444  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 7:13:59pm

re: #366 pyrodoctor

Damn! I bet I could look through my kids' 3rd grade art class projects and found the same thing. It is plagiarism. But why not plagiarize something worth plagiarizing? Just cause people spend lots of money on that crap doesn't mean that both artists weren't hacks. It is kind of analogous to the musician who sued ColdPlay last year for supposedly stealing the melody of their song. When you listened to it the melody in question was so banal and trivial, that it is hard to imagine people fighting over it. I guess the haters need something to talk about.

See this is the Anti-intellectual wing of the right, in action.
It's just stupid, and it's been said several times up-thread much witter than that.
Stating that you don't care to actually think about things is a pretty bad reflection on you.
Art is art, you can like it or not, but to be proudly ignorant is pathetic, and make you look like a dick.
Do you really want to get into a meaningful discussion of the price and value of art?
And the value of it vis a vis the cultural zeitgeist of the moment?
I don't think so, you'd rather be an anti-intellectual mouth breather.
Pant on, you crazy diamond.

373 Robert O.  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 7:27:58pm

I don't like the extreme-right shrilling either, but to be fair, the painting on the right is exactly 90 degrees rotated from the one on the left, just using different colors. It definitely looks like plagiarism if you asked me (it all depends on the EXTENT of the copying), although I really do NOT care less about modern art, let alone what paintings Obama has in the White House.

374 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 7:29:21pm

Yep, here they come.

375 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 7:30:13pm

re: #372 doubter4444

See this is the Anti-intellectual wing of the right, in action.
It's just stupid, and it's been said several times up-thread much witter than that.
Stating that you don't care to actually think about things is a pretty bad reflection on you.
Art is art, you can like it or not, but to be proudly ignorant is pathetic, and make you look like a dick.
Do you really want to get into a meaningful discussion of the price and value of art?
And the value of it vis a vis the cultural zeitgeist of the moment?
I don't think so, you'd rather be an anti-intellectual mouth breather.
Pant on, you crazy diamond.

I just fell for you a wee bit for that one.

376 doubter4444  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 7:33:59pm

re: #375 iceweasel

! You know I'm already crushing a bit, Ms. Ice.

377 Rexatosis  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 9:00:57pm

I can't say I like the pieces by either Matisse or Thomas but Pres. Obama's selection of the Thomas piece is sure as hell likely to drive up the value of all of Thomas' work. Damn wished I had one (not that it would ever grace my walls but it sure would help the old bank account).

378 SixDegrees  Sat, Oct 10, 2009 2:10:08am

re: #373 Robert O.

I don't like the extreme-right shrilling either, but to be fair, the painting on the right is exactly 90 degrees rotated from the one on the left, just using different colors. It definitely looks like plagiarism if you asked me (it all depends on the EXTENT of the copying), although I really do NOT care less about modern art, let alone what paintings Obama has in the White House.

No, you are incorrect. Please engage your eyes. When you're done with that, please read the catalog of the exhibition linked in the headliner to this thread; it is most certainly NOT plagiarism, either.

379 SixDegrees  Sat, Oct 10, 2009 2:21:42am

re: #366 pyrodoctor

Damn! I bet I could look through my kids' 3rd grade art class projects and found the same thing.

After you do that, maybe you could get your kid to construct a proper sentence for you.

It is plagiarism.

No, it isn't, not by any stretch of the imagination. Get your kid to show you how to work a dictionary, and look up the definition of "plagiarism." Then read the catalog description of the piece, conveniently linked in the thread headliner. I know it's asking a lot - all that reading - but remember: reading is FUNdamental! If you do enough of it, you may someday come to enjoy it.

But why not plagiarize something worth plagiarizing?

You mean like the work of someone who is considered one of the great artists of the 20th century? In other words, Matisse?

Just cause people spend lots of money on that crap doesn't mean that both artists weren't hacks.

Actually, it's a pretty sound indicator. Try getting a museum to buy your third grader's work and see how much they offer you.

Like I said above: it's hilarious when the kids who sat around in art class eating the crayons suddenly decide they're art critics. How about you get back to us once you've had a piece of your own work exhibited in an art gallery? Any art gallery, doesn't even have to be a nationally known museum like the Hirschhorn. Because right now, it's apparent that the only thing you know about painting involves rollers and cans of Behr.

380 SixDegrees  Sat, Oct 10, 2009 2:25:42am

re: #373 Robert O.

I really do NOT care less about modern art

Perhaps you should take the time to actually look at some, a task you failed to accomplish here. From there, perhaps you could move on to attempt understanding what it is you're looking at.

381 SixDegrees  Sat, Oct 10, 2009 2:42:26am

Oh My God! I just listened to a Dave Brubeck recording, and HE'S TOTALLY PLAGIARIZING BILLY STRAYHORN'S 'TAKE THE "A" TRAIN'! That bastard! It's note for not exactly the same piece! And...OH MY GOD! The announcer just came on and said Brubeck's piece is called 'Take the "A" Train' - THE MAN'S A SHAMELESS THIEF, HE EVEN PLAGIARIZED THE TITLE!!!

I have to go get more exclamation points!!! I'm totally outraged by this!!! And I bet 0bama's a Dave Brubeck fan, too, that idiot!!!

382 bruxellesblog  Sat, Oct 10, 2009 8:02:35am

re: #381 SixDegrees

Right...small problem with this theory.

When Dave Brubeck covers "Take the A Train", the song is listed on the record "words and lyrics by B. STRAYHORN". If Dave Brubeck were to write, let's say, Take the B Train, and it has the same exact chords, lyrics, and melody, as take the A Train, then guess what? Hey Presto! Its Plagiarism!

Now, there is influence and quotation, like, Monet and Manet reinventing still life's inspired by many of the great artists. Or perhaps the example of Picasso's nudes going back to Rubens and Botticelli, but this is a BIG difference from basically copying verbatim the work of Monet and calling it your own. Yes, that is legally defined as plagiarism.

Now, does this matter in this case? Probably not, and I'll hold out the benefit of the doubt that this was simply and act of ignorance on the part of the Obamas. Still, the art is certainly not original, and does simply copy the work of Henri Matisse. Granted, not an exceptional work, but one would be hard pressed to not call the work of Alma Thomas a pale copy of the collage of Matisse.

Besides, there are better ways to do collage. One of my favorites is by David Hockney. Image: hockney_pearblossom.jpg

Does it matter? There are far more important things to criticize "The One" about. However, I would say that there are a bunch of pretty poor artists receiving grant money and exposure, not due to talent, but PC nonsense. I think Iowahawk has done a great job slamming that better than I ever could recently. [Link: iowahawk.typepad.com...]

383 Banner  Sat, Oct 10, 2009 9:02:12am

Definitely at least a derivative work. The kind of thing that the artist is supposed to mention when they publish. Plagiarism? Maybe. I know these are the kinds of things that drive successful artists crazy, because people copy their work, make money or fame off of it, and the original artist doesn't get squat.

384 SixDegrees  Sat, Oct 10, 2009 9:03:27am

re: #382 bruxellesblog

Right...small problem with this theory.

When Dave Brubeck covers "Take the A Train", the song is listed on the record "words and lyrics by B. STRAYHORN". If Dave Brubeck were to write, let's say, Take the B Train, and it has the same exact chords, lyrics, and melody, as take the A Train, then guess what? Hey Presto! Its Plagiarism!

Now, there is influence and quotation, like, Monet and Manet reinventing still life's inspired by many of the great artists. Or perhaps the example of Picasso's nudes going back to Rubens and Botticelli, but this is a BIG difference from basically copying verbatim the work of Monet and calling it your own. Yes, that is legally defined as plagiarism.

Now, does this matter in this case? Probably not, and I'll hold out the benefit of the doubt that this was simply and act of ignorance on the part of the Obamas. Still, the art is certainly not original, and does simply copy the work of Henri Matisse. Granted, not an exceptional work, but one would be hard pressed to not call the work of Alma Thomas a pale copy of the collage of Matisse.

Besides, there are better ways to do collage. One of my favorites is by David Hockney. [Link: cti.itc.virginia.edu...]

Does it matter? There are far more important things to criticize "The One" about. However, I would say that there are a bunch of pretty poor artists receiving grant money and exposure, not due to talent, but PC nonsense. I think Iowahawk has done a great job slamming that better than I ever could recently. [Link: iowahawk.typepad.com...]

Reading must be hard for all the instant art critics, so I'll repeat myself for about the sixth time: you don't know what you're talking about, and had you bothered to read the exhibition catalog linked in this threads headliner (I know, reading again; sorry to put you out) you would find primary refutation of your ignorant statement - or rather, the ignorant statement you skimmed off Malkin's Den of Ignorance and Drool and parroted here without so much as a single thought or glance at reality.

385 SixDegrees  Sat, Oct 10, 2009 9:05:00am

re: #383 Banner

Definitely at least a derivative work.

Of COURSE it's a derivative work - the artist herself is extremely open about this. Had you bothered reading the catalog that Malkin so idiotically linked to, you'll find the rationale and history of the piece right there in front of you, in broad daylight.

386 Banner  Sat, Oct 10, 2009 9:13:59am

re: #385 SixDegrees

I read the link. I saw that the writer mentioned the obvious connections, but I did not see anywhere where the artist themselves explicitely mentioned that it was a derivative work.

387 bruxellesblog  Sat, Oct 10, 2009 10:04:14am

re: #384 SixDegrees

>Reading must be hard for all the instant art critics, so I'll repeat myself for about the sixth time: you don't know what you're talking about

As somebody who was nominated as a finalist for Aritist of the Year twice in one of the 50 United States, you are correct, I am not a critic. I actually made my living in the arts for about 20 years.

And SURPRISE! I did read the program and link too, and all of Charles comments, and even sifted through a few of your screeds as well.

Here is a definition for you:

Plagiarism: Random House Compact Unabridged Dictionary "use or close imitation of the language and thoughts of another author and the representation of them as one's own original work."

So, even if she claims it is 'influenced by' Matisse, it is, by the above definition, an imitation, and then could literally be called plagiarism.

Talk to Joseph Biden about the difference between being influenced by a speaking style, and plagiarizing a speech outright.

Regardless, is the work not at the very least shamefully unoriginal? Certainly. There are far better contemporary artists.

388 Charles Johnson  Sat, Oct 10, 2009 11:13:34am

re: #387 bruxellesblog

This is complete nonsense.

389 Diane  Sat, Oct 10, 2009 11:24:19am

I am an artist in contemporary arts. Artists always find inspiration in other artists works. I like this piece here, it's fun and I'd like to have it.

390 Diane  Sat, Oct 10, 2009 11:27:27am

Correction: I'd like to own both pieces.

391 bruxellesblog  Sat, Oct 10, 2009 12:25:15pm

re: #388 Charles

If you want to argue that the dictionary definition of plagiarism is wrong, more power to you.

If you want to say that this is fundamentally a different peice of art because a morally relativistic artist has used a differrent title, so be it.

I completley disagree.

392 Charles Johnson  Sat, Oct 10, 2009 1:47:21pm

re: #391 bruxellesblog

Actually, I don't think I want to argue about this with you at all, because the ignorance and stupidity of it is giving me a headache. But you go ahead and knock yourself out ranting about "plagiarism."

393 SixDegrees  Sat, Oct 10, 2009 1:57:19pm
394 SixDegrees  Sat, Oct 10, 2009 1:58:26pm
395 SixDegrees  Sat, Oct 10, 2009 2:01:18pm
396 SixDegrees  Sat, Oct 10, 2009 2:03:18pm
397 SixDegrees  Sat, Oct 10, 2009 2:04:51pm
398 SixDegrees  Sat, Oct 10, 2009 2:06:35pm
399 SixDegrees  Sat, Oct 10, 2009 2:11:49pm
400 SixDegrees  Sat, Oct 10, 2009 2:13:23pm
401 SixDegrees  Sat, Oct 10, 2009 2:16:29pm
402 SixDegrees  Sat, Oct 10, 2009 2:20:11pm
403 SixDegrees  Sat, Oct 10, 2009 2:21:09pm
404 SixDegrees  Sat, Oct 10, 2009 2:24:36pm

Are we clear on this now?

Somehow, I doubt it.

405 SixDegrees  Sat, Oct 10, 2009 2:25:22pm
406 Fenris  Sat, Oct 10, 2009 5:15:03pm

deviantART, Inc. on plagiarism. Not a perfect analogue for intellectual property law, but it provides a good boildown.

What does deviantART consider to be Art Theft?
Copyright Infringement (aka "Art Theft" or "Ripping")
Current deviantART policy defines 'Art Theft' to be any situation where a user takes the original art, photography, or writing of another person (a 'third party') and then either misrepresents the original, unaltered work as one of their own creations or includes the work (either altered or unaltered) in a new image.

Generally speaking any submission which is directly built upon the existing work of another artist or photographer can be considered to be a case of art theft. These works may feature screenshots, official artwork or sprites taken from a video game, scans from an art book, artwork found on a website somewhere on the internet or a photograph of a famous person (just to name a few examples), but in every case the 'seed image' is the legal property of another artist. In many cases these 'seed images' are manipulated, colored over, blended with other images, and otherwise digitally worked over but none of this makes the use acceptable or allowed.

[...]

Source

Thomas did not do any of the above. Now, let's juxtapose with deviantART's policy on "Fan Art."

What does deviantART consider "Fan Art" to be?
The type of fan art which is deemed acceptable for submission are those work in which the submitting artist has done 100% of the work. This means that the artist had started with a blank slate and perhaps a reference (a pose, character, location, or other source) and proceeded to draw, paint, or otherwise create every line and place every color with their own hand.

When copying from an established source it is considered good etiquette to credit your source. Also please note that it may be considered unacceptable to precisely duplicate another existing work by directly tracing or reproducing every single detail so that it is difficult to tell your work from the original, so please be certain to add your own personal touches and style.

[...]

Source

Points emphasized are things Thomas did to his image.

In other words, Thomas's art would be perfectly acceptable on the above and related art sites, if construed as "fan art," which includes original images that overtly refer to another source, like tributes or "riffs." The worst potential trouble would be etiquette issues associated with its difficulty to distinguish from a Matisse.

407 tjseagrove  Sat, Oct 10, 2009 8:03:16pm

Rotate the original counter-clockwise 90 degrees and change the colors, new piece of artwork. Nice copy...

As for the uproar, whatever that is, they should find something better to do. Let the art community worry if it is plagerism or not.

408 Charles Johnson  Sat, Oct 10, 2009 9:24:31pm

re: #407 tjseagrove

The "art community" couldn't care less about wingnuts screaming "plagiarism." Trust me on that.

409 SixDegrees  Sun, Oct 11, 2009 2:05:24am

re: #407 tjseagrove

Rotate the original counter-clockwise 90 degrees and change the colors, new piece of artwork. Nice copy...

As for the uproar, whatever that is, they should find something better to do. Let the art community worry if it is plagerism or not.

Discussed over and over above. You're wrong. Try reading; it's FUNdamental!

410 SixDegrees  Sun, Oct 11, 2009 6:40:39am

re: #407 tjseagrove

change the colors

And what has our newly-minted, self-appointed art critic got to say about the color choice?

Or didn't he notice anything of interest about them?

*cough*

411 akarra  Mon, Oct 12, 2009 5:36:24am

re: #6 Cato the Elder

I don't think your point about ignorance can be emphasized enough: what is most frightening about many right-wing blogs right now is their absolute commitment to manufacturing outrage, no matter how small or irrelevant the matter. They only see activism and tearing one's political opponents down as a good that must be indulged in continuously. I just wonder if anyone will realize there's a whole wide world out there, filled with interesting things to explore and share: it wouldn't only make for more interesting blogging, but it might bring back the "conserve" implicit in "conservatism."

412 tjseagrove  Mon, Oct 12, 2009 8:21:28am

re: #408 Charles

And that was my point...


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