Video: Jon Stewart and Newt Gingrich

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Tuesday night on the Jon Stewart show, Newt Gingrich thoroughly beclowned himself by attacking the Obama administration for reading Miranda rights to the accused Christmas bomber; when Stewart pointed out that the Bush administration had also Mirandized shoe bomber Richard Reid, Gingrich said “Richard Reid is an American citizen.”

No. He’s British.

Gingrich later admitted making an error. On his Twitter feed.

The only question in my mind is whether this was ignorance or a deliberate attempt to mislead.

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269 comments
1 Achilles Tang  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:14:48am

Pity he screwed that up. I agree with him otherwise.

2 Ben Hur  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:15:27am

Were there military commissions in December of 2001?

3 windsword  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:15:29am

Probably just ignorance, although I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt.

Of course, a British national still isn't the same as a Nigerian national. The UK is our greatest ally, and we tend to treat their citizens with the same courtesy we extend to our own citizens. I think the point still stands, even if he was wrong.

4 Ben Hur  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:16:08am

re: #2 Ben Hur

Were there military commissions in December of 2001?

Tribunals. Not commissions.

5 Petero1818  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:17:22am

Well I think its hard to say whether or not it was intentional. I would guess no, simply because it was too easy to catch and makes him seem like an idiot. However he later twittered that he was actually thinking of Padilla when he said that, and he continued, that it is wrong for any president to treat a terrorist as a criminal. Huff Post actually then referred to a 2005 interview he gave to Fox News where he seemed supportive of Bush's decision in that regard. So take your pick, deceitful moron, or partisan hack with little regard for truth. We report, you decide.

6 krypto  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:20:17am

Extended interview that continued after the end of the present segment:

Comedy Central Video
7 fizzlogic  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:21:25am

Is that the same guy who thinks tracking illegal aliens should be entrusted to FedEx where they can miraculously track where they are at all times just like packages?

Gingrich is so brilliant. He's a conservative visionary. He should run for President.

8 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:21:27am

re: #5 Petero1818

Well I think its hard to say whether or not it was intentional. I would guess no, simply because it was too easy to catch and makes him seem like an idiot. However he later twittered that he was actually thinking of Padilla when he said that, and he continued, that it is wrong for any president to treat a terrorist as a criminal. Huff Post actually then referred to a 2005 interview he gave to Fox News where he seemed supportive of Bush's decision in that regard. So take your pick, deceitful moron, or partisan hack with little regard for truth. We report, you decide.

Yes, that was his excuse -- he was thinking of Padilla. Except that Padilla wasn't arrested on an airplane.

Anyway, if this is true, it actually makes his case even weaker, because Padilla was eventually tried and pleaded guilty in a civilian court and is now serving a long prison sentence.

9 Petero1818  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:23:23am

re: #8 Charles

Yes, that was his excuse -- he was thinking of Padilla. Except that Padilla wasn't arrested on an airplane.

Anyway, if this is true, it actually makes his case even weaker, because Padilla was eventually tried and pleaded guilty in a civilian court and is now serving a long prison sentence.

Indeed which is why I wrote, that if he wasn't lying, he was at least a partisan hack with little regard for the truth.

10 lawhawk  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:25:58am

You know, the most amusing/disappointing thing of all is that this was said on the Jon Stewart show. It's a frickin' comedy program on Comedy Central, and it somehow manages to get more news and more insight on the news than the actual news channels. And Jon Stewart was sufficiently well versed on the issues to call Newt out on it.

How frickin' insane is that?

11 webevintage  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:26:10am

re: #8 Charles

Anyway, if this is true, it actually makes his case even weaker, because Padilla was eventually tried and pleaded guilty in a civilian court and is now serving a long prison sentence.


Kinda of amazing how well those civilian court cases have worked out so far. From the Republican noise machine one would think that all these terrorists are running around free because the Fedral system is teh suck, when in reality these guys are in prison.

Since I don't trust Newt as far as I can throw him I'd say he was lying, on purpose, because he is a big. fat. liar.

12 The Left  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:27:13am

re: #9 Petero1818

Indeed which is why I wrote, that if he wasn't lying, he was at least a partisan hack with little regard for the truth.

I'm not inclined to believe it was any sort of honest mistake on his part, because these specific memory losses and amnesiac fugue states have been happening with regularity whenever Newt, or Rove, or Cheney, or Guiliani, and a few others, talk about how the underpants bomber is being treated, or KSM, etc.

13 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:27:33am

re: #3 windsword

Probably just ignorance, although I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt.

Of course, a British national still isn't the same as a Nigerian national. The UK is our greatest ally, and we tend to treat their citizens with the same courtesy we extend to our own citizens. I think the point still stands, even if he was wrong.

Hold the phone! We now have three categories, U.S. citizens, citizens of important countries who are our allies, and citizens of third world countries we don't need for much?

Can you see why this tends to make my antennae go WTF?

14 jamesfirecat  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:27:36am

re: #10 lawhawk

You know, the most amusing/disappointing thing of all is that this was said on the Jon Stewart show. It's a frickin' comedy program on Comedy Central, and it somehow manages to get more news and more insight on the news than the actual news channels. And Jon Stewart was sufficiently well versed on the issues to call Newt out on it.

How frickin' insane is that?

The Court Jester is the only one in the land who does not fear the wrath of the king.

15 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:28:14am

re: #10 lawhawk

You know, the most amusing/disappointing thing of all is that this was said on the Jon Stewart show. It's a frickin' comedy program on Comedy Central, and it somehow manages to get more news and more insight on the news than the actual news channels. And Jon Stewart was sufficiently well versed on the issues to call Newt out on it.

How frickin' insane is that?

We need the Huntley/Brinkley report back.

16 The Left  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:28:41am

re: #13 SanFranciscoZionist

Hold the phone! We now have three categories, U.S. citizens, citizens of important countries who are our allies, and citizens of third world countries we don't need for much?

Can you see why this tends to make my antennae go WTF?

We have two categories: pre Nov 2008, and post Jan 20 2009.

17 fizzlogic  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:29:56am

re: #10 lawhawk

It just illustrates the state of our news media today. You pretty much have to go to comedy central to get serious news. And watch Glen Beck for comedy.

18 webevintage  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:31:47am

re: #12 iceweasel

I'm not inclined to believe it was any sort of honest mistake on his part, because these specific memory losses and amnesiac fugue states have been happening with regularity whenever Newt, or Rove, or Cheney, or Guiliani, and a few others, talk about how the underpants bomber is being treated, or KSM, etc.

The best "memory loss" of all is the one that was going around last month.
You know, that Bush had no major terrorist attacks during his administration.
Yeah...I know.

19 Ben Hur  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:33:31am

re: #8 Charles

Yes, that was his excuse -- he was thinking of Padilla. Except that Padilla wasn't arrested on an airplane.

Anyway, if this is true, it actually makes his case even weaker, because Padilla was eventually tried and pleaded guilty in a civilian court and is now serving a long prison sentence.

He was arrested at the Chicago AIRPORT after he got off an AIRPLANE.

I know that changes everything.

20 tradewind  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:34:24am

According to Gingrich, it was neither. He misspoke.
Presidents , scientists, and even everyday folks do it all the time.

21 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:36:34am

re: #19 Ben Hur

He was arrested at the Chicago AIRPORT after he got off an AIRPLANE.

I know that changes everything.

Uh, he wasn't trying to blow up the plane. Yes, that's a tiny difference, I know.

22 ShaunP  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:37:31am

re: #13 SanFranciscoZionist

Hold the phone! We now have three categories, U.S. citizens, citizens of important countries who are our allies, and citizens of third world countries we don't need for much?

Can you see why this tends to make my antennae go WTF?

What makes my head spin is how terrorists aren't eligible for the Geneva convention because they aren't enemy combatants, but they can't be prosecuted in the courts because they are enemy combatants...

23 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:39:11am

Well I'll put my neck out and state that if they are caught/arrested by civilian authorities on U.S. (excluding Military installations) territory they get Mirandized and tried in a civilian Court of Law. If they are captured in a war zone or on a Military installation, they get a Tribunal. How hard is that?

24 Surabaya Stew  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:39:23am
The only question in my mind is whether this was ignorance or a deliberate attempt to mislead.

Partisans will draw their own conclusions on this according to their biases. What I think is non-debatable is that Newt is either too irresponsible or too under-informed to be taking a part in our political debate. A shame too, as he is a smart man with idealist tendencies. Watching him chase political relevance today after his ship sailed a dozen years ago is painful.

25 tradewind  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:40:06am

You all know what it's like to misspeak. For example: ' E Pluribus Unum... out of one, many'.
Or ' I've now visited fifty seven states'.
It can happen to anyone.

26 Ojoe  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:40:11am

Ah, Gingrich, erstwhile star of the "R" party.

But, down with both major political parties.

Pffiibbittth.™

There's no real competence in either of them.

27 jamesfirecat  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:40:44am

re: #25 tradewind

You all know what it's like to misspeak. For example: ' E Pluribus Unum... out of one, many'.
Or ' I've now visited fifty seven states'.
It can happen to anyone.

People of Berlin, I am a doughnut!

28 lawhawk  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:40:51am

re: #23 Bubblehead II

With the caveat that US citizens get federal court trials. No. It's not hard. It's the position I have been taking and it's one that would overcome the evidenciary hurdles because of those captured who didn't get Mirandized, evidence is based on national intel sources that are classified, etc.

29 windsword  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:43:02am

re: #13 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm not saying it's good or right, but the fact of the matter is that we rely on UK much, much, much more than we do Nigeria, although they certainly are important African allies. We couldn't afford to piss off a major ally, especially when we were trying to sell the War in Iraq. It's a fact of international relations that stronger countries get their way, while weaker ones get treated with less respect.

Look at the Somali pirates. They preyed on African ships for years, but as soon as they took Americans and Europeans hostage, the international community really came down on them. That's reality, and yes it sucks.

30 The Left  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:45:16am

re: #22 ShaunP

What makes my head spin is how terrorists aren't eligible for the Geneva convention because they aren't enemy combatants, but they can't be prosecuted in the courts because they are enemy combatants...

That's some catch, that catch 22!
It's the best there is, agreed Doc Daneeka.

31 abbyadams  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:45:41am

I just don't see how if he meant Padilla that would have made any sense in context of the discussion, anyway.

32 Ojoe  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:45:51am

What if we put the Miranda wording on all the coinage and paper money?

Then we could be done with this.
/

33 Ojoe  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:46:42am

Or maybe not "/".

34 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:46:45am

re: #28 lawhawk

"With the caveat that US citizens get federal court trials."

Even if they are captured on foreign soil in a declared combat zone fighting against U.S. Troops?

35 Surabaya Stew  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:48:04am

re: #32 Ojoe

What if we put the Miranda wording on all the coinage and paper money?

Then we could be done with this.
/

Reminds me of Jerry Seinfeld's proposal to put pictures of criminals on the postage stamps so the postal workers could catch criminals! Something nice about this kind of logic....

36 Petero1818  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:49:27am

re: #13 SanFranciscoZionist

Hold the phone! We now have three categories, U.S. citizens, citizens of important countries who are our allies, and citizens of third world countries we don't need for much?

Can you see why this tends to make my antennae go WTF?

Absolutely, while it may make sense for immigration rules and visa rules, it harly seems relevant for criminal proceedings.

37 tradewind  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:50:23am

re: #31 abbyadams

You don't see how the fact that both of them were arrested in connection with jihadist misbehavior applies?
Both were radicalized in prison, as well.... Reid in the UK, Padilla in the US.

38 Ojoe  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:50:23am

re: #34 Bubblehead II

Some acts ought to trigger automatic loss of citizenship & that is one of them IMHO.

39 sagehen  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:50:28am

re: #29 windsword

I'm not saying it's good or right, but the fact of the matter is that we rely on UK much, much, much more than we do Nigeria, although they certainly are important African allies. We couldn't afford to piss off a major ally, especially when we were trying to sell the War in Iraq. It's a fact of international relations that stronger countries get their way, while weaker ones get treated with less respect.

But we actually do have pretty good relations with Nigeria; also, they're an oil exporter. Let's treat them as allies.

40 tradewind  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:51:21am

re: #29 windsword

You said Somali Pirates!
Now I will be hearing Cartman's damn song in my head the rest of the day.....//

41 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:52:13am

re: #38 Ojoe

I can think of something more harsh right off hand.

42 tradewind  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:53:44am

re: #41 Bubblehead II

Off with the right hand?//
/don't start, I'm joking/

43 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:54:21am

re: #21 Charles

Uh, he wasn't trying to blow up the plane. Yes, that's a tiny difference, I know.

And if I recall, he IS an American citizen, wasn't Mirandized, was held in a military brig and was charged as an enemy combatant.

But other then that, it was the same thing.

44 lawhawk  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:55:03am

OT:
GOPer and Tea Party activist Debra Medina who's running against Rick Perry in Texas is a troofer. She's open to the idea that the government was in on the 9/11 attacks.

What was that about Tea Parties and conspiracy theories again? Oh wait.

45 jamesfirecat  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:56:03am

re: #32 Ojoe

What if we put the Miranda wording on all the coinage and paper money?

Then we could be done with this.
/

What if we arrest someone who is illiterate?

46 Blueheron  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:56:14am

re: #9 Petero1818

Indeed which is why I wrote, that if he wasn't lying, he was at least a partisan hack with little regard for the truth.

He couldn't possibly have made a mistake? Right.
/

47 sagehen  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:56:20am

The other comparison I've been hearing on the talking head shows is "what about those Nazi saboteurs arrested in Long Island during WWII? They weren't mirandized, this is just the same."

Because of course, 1940's cops would be expected to adhere to the dictates of a 1966 Supreme Court decision.

//

48 JeffM70  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:56:39am

The thing is like Rudy9/11, there is no mistake large enough or mistakes numerous enough to keep the media from treating Newt like a serious analyst. This in on top of the fact Newt has been politically irrelevant since 1999.

49 albusteve  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:56:45am

re: #10 lawhawk

You know, the most amusing/disappointing thing of all is that this was said on the Jon Stewart show. It's a frickin' comedy program on Comedy Central, and it somehow manages to get more news and more insight on the news than the actual news channels. And Jon Stewart was sufficiently well versed on the issues to call Newt out on it.

How frickin' insane is that?

Jon Stewart is an Idol....hence this thread

50 Blueheron  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:57:12am

"The only question in my mind is whether this was ignorance or a deliberate attempt to mislead."

There is a third choice.....a mistake.

51 The Left  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:58:06am

re: #48 JeffM70

The thing is like Rudy9/11, there is no mistake large enough or mistakes numerous enough to keep the media from treating Newt like a serious analyst. This in on top of the fact Newt has been politically irrelevant since 1999.

It's weird how Newt has been back since the election though. He's been all over the talk shows since then.

52 Blueheron  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:58:35am

re: #10 lawhawk

You know, the most amusing/disappointing thing of all is that this was said on the Jon Stewart show. It's a frickin' comedy program on Comedy Central, and it somehow manages to get more news and more insight on the news than the actual news channels. And Jon Stewart was sufficiently well versed on the issues to call Newt out on it.

How frickin' insane is that?

Boy huge updings for the truth Lawhawk!

53 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:58:38am

re: #8 Charles

Yes, that was his excuse -- he was thinking of Padilla. Except that Padilla wasn't arrested on an airplane.

Anyway, if this is true, it actually makes his case even weaker, because Padilla was eventually tried and pleaded guilty in a civilian court and is now serving a long prison sentence.

Hey Charles, minor correction, Padilla was actually found guilty and didn't plead out, but if anything that makes the entire case that much weaker for Gingrich.

54 jamesfirecat  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:58:40am

re: #49 albusteve

Jon Stewart is an Idol...hence this thread

You say that like it's a bad thing!

55 albusteve  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:59:18am

re: #51 iceweasel

It's weird how Newt has been back since the election though. He's been all over the talk shows since then.

it's a living

56 JeffM70  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:59:20am

re: #47 sagehen

Of course the other major difference being we were at war with an actual country, not an abstraction. I mean we've been at war with drugs for decades now. Why aren't drug dealers taken into custody as enemy combatants?

57 albusteve  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:59:51am

re: #54 jamesfirecat

You say that like it's a bad thing!

do I?

58 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:59:57am

re: #45 jamesfirecat

What if we arrest someone who is illiterate?

I think you missed sarcasm and satire again.

59 Petero1818  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:00:01am

re: #38 Ojoe

Some acts ought to trigger automatic loss of citizenship & that is one of them IMHO.

There is only one crime that should ever result in loss of citizenship. That is lying on one's immigration application for citizenship or other status. Once a citizen, end of story. Need to find another mechanism.

60 darthstar  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:00:05am

I think all politicians and pundits should be read Miranda before they speak. Then maybe they wouldn't say so much stupid shit. Of course, anything they say can and is used against them in the court of public opinion already, but that doesn't seem to bother most of them in the least.

61 windsword  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:00:41am

re: #39 sagehen

But we actually do have pretty good relations with Nigeria; also, they're an oil exporter. Let's treat them as allies.

That of course, works off the assumption that Nigeria would care if we didn't Mirandize their citizens. Hell, if the shoe bomber was arrested in Nigeria, his execution would be the next day.

But you'd be surprised how well immersed I am in Nigerian politics. A Nigerian prince recently emailed me offering me a large sum of cash to funnel money out of his country. I gave him me bank information, and now I'm just waiting for his reply!

62 darthstar  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:01:06am

re: #51 iceweasel

It's weird how Newt has been back since the election though. He's been all over the talk shows since then.

What else is he qualified to do? He wouldn't make much of a Wal-Mart greeter.

63 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:01:30am

re: #44 lawhawk

OT:
GOPer and Tea Party activist Debra Medina who's running against Rick Perry in Texas is a troofer. She's open to the idea that the government was in on the 9/11 attacks.

What was that about Tea Parties and conspiracy theories again? Oh wait.

The wingnuts are feigning outrage about this. She was on Alex Jones last week talking about 9-11 truth, the New World Order and secession. She even ran a banner ad on stormfront for a few days. She's a nut and it should be a new revelation. Beck being outraged is ridiculous. His conspiracies are no less crazy than hers.

64 Blueheron  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:01:35am

re: #15 reine.de.tout

We need the Huntley/Brinkley report back.

We need people with their integrity back. Remember Edward R. Murrow? They don't make them like that anymore and we are the poorer for it.

65 albusteve  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:02:02am

re: #62 darthstar

What else is he qualified to do? He wouldn't make much of a Wal-Mart greeter.

he's a political genius, right wrong or otherwise

66 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:02:16am

re: #63 Killgore Trout

should = Shouldn't
/I stink

67 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:02:29am

re: #62 darthstar

What else is he qualified to do? He wouldn't make much of a Wal-Mart greeter.

I don't know, he has a nice smile and is popular with the ladies.

68 Petero1818  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:02:59am

re: #46 Blueheron

He couldn't possibly have made a mistake? Right.
/

I was willing to believe originally that it may have been a mistake, however that presumption was rebutted by his conveniently forgetting that he supported Bush's decision to try Padilla criminally.

69 tradewind  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:06:50am

re: #63 Killgore Trout

In what way?
I'm asking, since I'm not a follower and don't know what flavor conspiracy he promotes. Considering the size of his audience, it's difficult to believe that they are all conspiracy buffs.

70 Achilles Tang  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:06:57am

re: #38 Ojoe

Some acts ought to trigger automatic loss of citizenship & that is one of them IMHO.

And what difference does that make since they are treated as such anyway, and can't be sent anywhere else if ever released?

71 Blueheron  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:07:32am

re: #11 webevintage

Kinda of amazing how well those civilian court cases have worked out so far. From the Republican noise machine one would think that all these terrorists are running around free because the Fedral system is teh suck, when in reality these guys are in prison.

Since I don't trust Newt as far as I can throw him I'd say he was lying, on purpose, because he is a big. fat. liar.

Do you think there is ever a possibility that if we try KSM in a civilian court he may just be acquitted because some juror thinking he was a good boy?
Plus what will he obtain through discovery that could hurt our security?
You may want to take the chance. I am not convinced. Wouldn't military tribunals obtain the similar outcomes without the risk to us?
Plus with administration officials stating that he will be convicted and thrown in prison or worse why try him at all?

72 freetoken  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:08:05am

re: #38 Ojoe

Some acts ought to trigger automatic loss of citizenship & that is one of them IMHO.

I find the proposition you offer to be very scary. Please reconsider.

73 jamesfirecat  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:08:08am

re: #58 Walter L. Newton

I think you missed sarcasm and satire again.

So I saw the sarc tag, hence my joking answer.

(At 99% we're doing pretty good on literacy, though I wonder how many dyslexic terrorists there are...)

74 Ojoe  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:08:15am

re: #65 albusteve

The bar is set very low these days.

75 Blueheron  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:08:31am

re: #68 Petero1818

I was willing to believe originally that it may have been a mistake, however that presumption was rebutted by his conveniently forgetting that he supported Bush's decision to try Padilla criminally.

Were military tribunals blessed and sprinkled with holy water by that time?

76 Girth  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:08:44am

re: #34 Bubblehead II

"With the caveat that US citizens get federal court trials."

Even if they are captured on foreign soil in a declared combat zone fighting against U.S. Troops?

Yes.

Article III, Section 3


Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court. The Congress shall have power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.
77 Gus  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:08:50am

re: #63 Killgore Trout

The wingnuts are feigning outrage about this. She was on Alex Jones last week talking about 9-11 truth, the New World Order and secession. She even ran a banner ad on stormfront for a few days. She's a nut and it should be a new revelation. Beck being outraged is ridiculous. His conspiracies are no less crazy than hers.

Hence Beck "art critique" of "Marxist" art installation in and around Rockefeller Center. One of many of Beck's Bircher conspiracies.

I remember seeing Debra Medina last year while browsing the internet. She's served as "GOP county chairman of Wharton County" and "Interim State Coordinator for the Campaign for Liberty."

78 jamesfirecat  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:08:59am

re: #60 darthstar

I think all politicians and pundits should be read Miranda before they speak. Then maybe they wouldn't say so much stupid shit. Of course, anything they say can and is used against them in the court of public opinion already, but that doesn't seem to bother most of them in the least.

Maybe they should be reminded that whatever they say will be entered into to Youtube and can be used against them as evidence when they run for reelection...

79 Ojoe  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:09:10am

re: #70 Naso Tang

No difference really.

80 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:10:18am

This is ridiculous. It wouldn't make any difference that Padilla was an American citizen: If you are arrested by American civil authorities, you get the Miranda warning. It doesn't matter if you're an alien from Tau Ceti 3 (or even 4).
Otoh, if you are a Tau Cetan invader captured under arms by US military authorities, you are a PoW and not subject to civil due process.

More seriously, I don't know where people get the idea that due process applies only to citizens. Probably the same place they get the notion that the laws of armed conflict, the Geneva Conventions, apply only if the US Congress has actually declared war. For the record, the Geneva Conventions apply if there is an actual state of armed conflict. The presence or absence of certain pronouncements by the US Congress have no bearing on them.

81 tradewind  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:10:21am

re: #68 Petero1818

No mistake allowed. Only Presidents and Veeps can make egregious misstatements and have them ignored by the press.
Wonder what would have happened had Newt spoken of our ' corpse-men ' three times over the course of one interview?

82 darthstar  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:10:25am

re: #78 jamesfirecat

Maybe they should be reminded that whatever they say will be entered into to Youtube and can be used against them as evidence when they run for reelection...

No, no...let them find that out the hard way.

83 albusteve  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:11:11am

re: #74 Ojoe

The bar is set very low these days.

the best job in the world is a Congressman...the second best job are those that talk about them

84 jamesfirecat  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:12:06am

re: #71 Blueheron

Do you think there is ever a possibility that if we try KSM in a civilian court he may just be acquitted because some juror thinking he was a good boy?
Plus what will he obtain through discovery that could hurt our security?
You may want to take the chance. I am not convinced. Wouldn't military tribunals obtain the similar outcomes without the risk to us?
Plus with administration officials stating that he will be convicted and thrown in prison or worse why try him at all?

Plus if we tried KSM in New York, how far do you think he'd make it on the streets without some kind of government escort?

Jon Stewart says its best if you ask me.

Comedy Central Video
85 abbyadams  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:12:15am

re: #81 tradewind

Yes, I've never heard of Biden making a mistake, ever.
/

86 Blueheron  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:12:31am

re: #23 Bubblehead II

Well I'll put my neck out and state that if they are caught/arrested by civilian authorities on U.S. (excluding Military installations) territory they get Mirandized and tried in a civilian Court of Law. If they are captured in a war zone or on a Military installation, they get a Tribunal. How hard is that?

So the 9/11 hijackers would be tried in a civilian court?

87 darthstar  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:13:02am

re: #81 tradewind

No mistake allowed. Only Presidents and Veeps can make egregious misstatements and have them ignored by the press.
Wonder what would have happened had Newt spoken of our ' corpse-men ' three times over the course of one interview?

I've heard more about President Obama's use of 'corpse-men' than I have about the Jobs Bill or Health Care Reform in the past week. I think the "libruhl media" has that national crisis well in focus.

88 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:13:34am

re: #63 Killgore Trout

The wingnuts are feigning outrage about this. She was on Alex Jones last week talking about 9-11 truth, the New World Order and secession. She even ran a banner ad on stormfront for a few days. She's a nut and it should be a new revelation. Beck being outraged is ridiculous. His conspiracies are no less crazy than hers.

Meanwhile, Glenn Beck is heavily promoting David Barton and Wallbuilders, one of the most extreme theocratic groups currently operating in the US.

In the 1990s, David Barton gave speeches to groups linked to the neo-Nazi Christian Identity movement, as I've documented here several times. That's who Glenn Beck is promoting -- a fanatic with ties to white supremacists.

89 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:14:46am

re: #76 Girth

Well that pretty much answers the question then. Don't have to like it, but it is the way it is.

90 darthstar  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:14:52am

re: #88 Charles

The hate market...it's even better than Cash for Gold.

91 albusteve  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:15:27am

BO and Holder have corrupted the KSM trial wherever it is held...that's a fact...I've heard this NYC trial will take two years...the guy admitted his guilt...so wtf is going on?...why is the nation being subject to this ridiculous circus?...the whole thing is beyond the pale

92 jamesfirecat  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:16:00am

re: #90 darthstar

The hate market...it's even better than Cash for Gold.

Of course in Cash for Gold you have to exchange one thing with monetary value for another.

In the hate market you get paid just for your words.

93 Blueheron  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:16:50am

re: #29 windsword

I'm not saying it's good or right, but the fact of the matter is that we rely on UK much, much, much more than we do Nigeria, although they certainly are important African allies. We couldn't afford to piss off a major ally, especially when we were trying to sell the War in Iraq. It's a fact of international relations that stronger countries get their way, while weaker ones get treated with less respect.

Look at the Somali pirates. They preyed on African ships for years, but as soon as they took Americans and Europeans hostage, the international community really came down on them. That's reality, and yes it sucks.

Actually it doesn't suck. Our country has earned some deference because of the sacrifices of our soldiers. When others step up and put their asses on the line as America and Great Britain has then good.

94 Gus  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:17:11am

re: #91 albusteve

BO and Holder have corrupted the KSM trial wherever it is held...that's a fact...I've heard this NYC trial will take two years...the guy admitted his guilt...so wtf is going on?...why is the nation being subject to this ridiculous circus?...the whole thing is beyond the pale

KSM was arrested in 2003.

95 webevintage  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:17:18am

re: #71 Blueheron

Do you think there is ever a possibility that if we try KSM in a civilian court he may just be acquitted because some juror thinking he was a good boy?

No, no I don't.
I think our system works, I think the justice dept knows what they are doing and I think the Federal Courts are more then capable of doing this and I think all the noise from republicans is just fear mongering.

96 darthstar  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:18:03am

re: #91 albusteve

BO and Holder have corrupted the KSM trial wherever it is held...that's a fact...I've heard this NYC trial will take two years...the guy admitted his guilt...so wtf is going on?...why is the nation being subject to this ridiculous circus?...the whole thing is beyond the pale

They've corrupted nothing. He's admitted guilt, and will likely change his plea because he's a crafty bastard, but don't worry...KSM will be found guilty, and he will either be put on federal death row or supermax for life without the possibility for parole. Unless they can find 12 Glenn Beck fans for the jury who will acquit him just to help show that the President is siding with terrorists.

97 ssn697  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:18:07am

Gingrich twittered that it is always wrong to red terrorists their rights, no matter who is President.

So Gingrich disagrees with Reagan AGAIN? Poor Ronny. He gets less and less relevant the further right the Republicans go. At some point they are going to have to revise the myth and paint Reagan as a liberal.

98 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:18:16am

re: #86 Blueheron


"So the 9/11 hijackers would be tried in a civilian court?"

If they had lived, yes.

99 Surabaya Stew  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:18:33am

re: #61 windsword

you'd be surprised how well immersed I am in Nigerian politics. A Nigerian prince recently emailed me offering me a large sum of cash to funnel money out of his country. I gave him me bank information, and now I'm just waiting for his reply!

Good luck with all that....
/

100 Mosh  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:20:06am

Gingrich has always come off as disingenuous to me. He was a weak Speaker who couldn't get a Balanced Budget Amendment, through tantrums with Clinton, and did nothing to advance Social Security reform.

Most Republicans hate Gingrich anyway, after the whole Scozzafava election and his calling for a "green conservatism".

101 jamesfirecat  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:20:10am

re: #97 ssn697

Gingrich twittered that it is always wrong to red terrorists their rights, no matter who is President.

So Gingrich disagrees with Reagan AGAIN? Poor Ronny. He gets less and less relevant the further right the Republicans go. At some point they are going to have to revise the myth and paint Reagan as a liberal.

You fail to grasp the brilliance of their plan he's not Ronald Regan anymore he's RONALD REGAN, now that he's dead the Republicans can say he said whatever they want to believe he said and who is gonna argue with him? Only the guys no account liberal son who is a disgrace to his father's proud lineage that's who!

102 DaddyG  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:20:42am

"Many journalists have fallen for the conspiracy theory of government. I do assure you that they would produce more accurate work if they adhered to the cock-up theory."
—Sir Bernard Ingham (British Journalist and Civil Servant)

Kind of puts the vast right wing conspiracy into perspective doesn't it?

103 Blueheron  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:20:58am

re: #38 Ojoe

Some acts ought to trigger automatic loss of citizenship & that is one of them IMHO.

What happened to the charge of treason?

104 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:22:14am

re: #23 Bubblehead II

Well I'll put my neck out and state that if they are caught/arrested by civilian authorities on U.S. (excluding Military installations) territory they get Mirandized and tried in a civilian Court of Law. If they are captured in a war zone or on a Military installation, they get a Tribunal. How hard is that?

Well, I got convinced of that on a long, ugly thread about the KSM trial. A good argument was made, and I changed my opinion accordingly. Unfortunately, about a week later, it had become a wussy liberal stance.

I can't harden up no matter what I do.

105 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:22:57am

re: #27 jamesfirecat

People of Berlin, I am a doughnut!

No, he was an Amerikaner. That's a kind of cookie. But you know, rhetoric.

106 stevemcg  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:23:00am

If you strip somebody of their citizenship, what then? Do you put 'em on a boat and shove it into the ocean?

107 Mosh  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:23:44am

re: #101 jamesfirecat

The GOP's cult of personality around Reagan is a farce. Why defend Reagan? He allowed the Democrat Congress to go out of control with spending after tax revenue increased due to his tax cuts. So "Starve The Beast" failed.

He also failed to abolish the Departments of Education and Energy as promised.

Reagan even failed to reform Medicare, welfare, or food stamps.

108 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:23:51am

re: #29 windsword

I'm not saying it's good or right, but the fact of the matter is that we rely on UK much, much, much more than we do Nigeria, although they certainly are important African allies. We couldn't afford to piss off a major ally, especially when we were trying to sell the War in Iraq. It's a fact of international relations that stronger countries get their way, while weaker ones get treated with less respect.

Look at the Somali pirates. They preyed on African ships for years, but as soon as they took Americans and Europeans hostage, the international community really came down on them. That's reality, and yes it sucks.

We may act according to realpolitik, but we don't make laws according to it.

109 hellosnackbar  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:24:08am

"No he's British!(Richard Read)
And I'm overjoyed that the dickhead will be the subject of many years of
American hospitality.

110 yoshicastmaster  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:24:26am

hmm- i really don't care as much that he acknowledged it...

let's see him respond to the question now!

111 The Sanity Inspector  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:24:48am

re: #103 Blueheron

What happened to the charge of treason?

See our discussion of that from last night.

112 DaddyG  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:26:07am

I wonder what we would do with these guys today?

113 Blueheron  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:26:09am

re: #24 Surabaya Stew

Partisans will draw their own conclusions on this according to their biases. What I think is non-debatable is that Newt is either too irresponsible or too under-informed to be taking a part in our political debate A shame too, as he is a smart man with idealist tendencies. Watching him chase political relevance today after his ship sailed a dozen years ago is painful.


Well then I guess the rest of us had better sit down and shut up also. Charle's blog will gather dust tho.///

114 jamesfirecat  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:26:44am

re: #105 SanFranciscoZionist

No, he was an Amerikaner. That's a kind of cookie. But you know, rhetoric.

Lets just be glad he wasn't in Hamburg.

115 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:26:48am

re: #37 tradewind

You don't see how the fact that both of them were arrested in connection with jihadist misbehavior applies?
Both were radicalized in prison, as well... Reid in the UK, Padilla in the US.

'Jihadist misbehavior'?

And no, it doesn't change anything Newt actually said. The argument is that we shouldn't have Mirandized Abutalib. The counterexample is Reid. If you can't account for Reid, and have to discuss a less relevent case, that's bad reasoning.

116 Lidane  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:27:54am

re: #44 lawhawk

OT:
GOPer and Tea Party activist Debra Medina who's running against Rick Perry in Texas is a troofer. She's open to the idea that the government was in on the 9/11 attacks.

Oh, lovely.

And I love how some of the comments there are pissed at Beck for exposing that bit of crazy, saying that Beck was out to get Medina from the start and that it was a setup. Oh, and that he's done Texas a disservice.

Screw that. I can't stand Glenn Beck at all, but if he just exposed the Tea Party candidate as a Troofer loon, he did this state a favor, and I thank him for it.

117 SteveMcG  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:27:56am

re: #111 The Sanity Inspector

There are over 1400 posts fromthe entries last night. Any chance you could just kinda sorta give us a hint?

118 Blueheron  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:28:12am

re: #39 sagehen

But we actually do have pretty good relations with Nigeria; also, they're an oil exporter. Let's treat them as allies.

I agree. Until they run out of oil. ///

119 jamesfirecat  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:28:30am

re: #107 Mosh

The GOP's cult of personality around Reagan is a farce. Why defend Reagan? He allowed the Democrat Congress to go out of control with spending after tax revenue increased due to his tax cuts. So "Starve The Beast" failed.

He also failed to abolish the Departments of Education and Energy as promised.

Reagan even failed to reform Medicare, welfare, or food stamps.

Yes, but he's also the only President they have for the better part of the last century who they can both be proud of and use as a rallying point. Want to see me break it down President by President?

120 albusteve  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:28:32am

re: #96 darthstar

They've corrupted nothing. He's admitted guilt, and will likely change his plea because he's a crafty bastard, but don't worry...KSM will be found guilty, and he will either be put on federal death row or supermax for life without the possibility for parole. Unless they can find 12 Glenn Beck fans for the jury who will acquit him just to help show that the President is siding with terrorists.

I don't worry about any of this shit...I'm more apt to laugh about it

121 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:28:45am

re: #44 lawhawk

OT:
GOPer and Tea Party activist Debra Medina who's running against Rick Perry in Texas is a troofer. She's open to the idea that the government was in on the 9/11 attacks.

What was that about Tea Parties and conspiracy theories again? Oh wait.

So a GOP member/activist/whatever is open to the idea that a Republican administration let al-Qaeda strike inside the United States?

This must make sense on some planet. Does she just think Bush is the biggest traitor since Benedict Arnold?

122 Lidane  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:29:27am

re: #63 Killgore Trout

Beck being outraged is ridiculous. His conspiracies are no less crazy than hers.

Well, true. But if his faux outrage causes people to not vote for her because she's a truther, then he's done Texas a favor.

123 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:30:55am

re: #56 JeffM70

Of course the other major difference being we were at war with an actual country, not an abstraction. I mean we've been at war with drugs for decades now. Why aren't drug dealers taken into custody as enemy combatants?

It's an idea.

/

124 albusteve  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:31:17am

re: #119 jamesfirecat

Yes, but he's also the only President they have for the better part of the last century who they can both be proud of and use as a rallying point. Want to see me break it down President by President?

go for it

125 albusteve  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:32:46am

re: #123 SanFranciscoZionist

It's an idea.

/

I think we should have extremely harsh penalties for coke dealers and meth cookers...probably beyond what most would consider reasonable, but that's just me

126 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:33:24am

re: #86 Blueheron

So the 9/11 hijackers would be tried in a civilian court?

Why not?

127 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:34:25am

re: #91 albusteve

BO and Holder have corrupted the KSM trial wherever it is held...that's a fact...I've heard this NYC trial will take two years...the guy admitted his guilt...so wtf is going on?...why is the nation being subject to this ridiculous circus?...the whole thing is beyond the pale

What would you like to have happen?

128 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:34:26am

re: #119 jamesfirecat

Yes, but he's also the only President they have for the better part of the last century who they can both be proud of and use as a rallying point. Want to see me break it down President by President?

Yes.

129 Mosh  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:34:36am

re: #119 jamesfirecat

Yes, but he's also the only President they have for the better part of the last century who they can both be proud of and use as a rallying point. Want to see me break it down President by President?

Yes. I would like that.

130 Gus  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:35:45am

re: #123 SanFranciscoZionist

It's an idea.

/

The so called "civilian system" was putting people to jail for life in Texas on marijuana distribution charges. Some of the mandatory sentencing guidelines also led to a lot of people getting life for three simple felonies (3 strikes law).

131 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:35:53am

re: #122 Lidane

Well, true. But if his faux outrage causes people to not vote for her because she's a truther, then he's done Texas a favor.

I seriously doubt she had any chance of winning.

132 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:36:06am

re: #97 ssn697

Gingrich twittered that it is always wrong to red terrorists their rights, no matter who is President.

So Gingrich disagrees with Reagan AGAIN? Poor Ronny. He gets less and less relevant the further right the Republicans go. At some point they are going to have to revise the myth and paint Reagan as a liberal.

Well, given that the Tea Party people appear to already have turned on Lincoln, I can't imagine it will be long before Reagan goes on the chopping block.

133 Mr. Crankypants  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:36:19am

Hello all..just stopping in while I eat lunch. First Day onsite in 3 days...#@%#@ Winter!

134 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:36:45am

GOP Rep. Deal insists birth certificate question not a knock on Obama’s ‘legitimacy’


Count Congressman Nathan Deal (R-GA) among them.

Except, by asking for Obama's birth certificate, Deal insists he's not questioning the president's "legitimacy" as other birthers may. He just thinks it is something President Obama would like to "clear up."

The congressman, who is running for Governor of Georgia, sent an electronic letter on congressional stationery to the White House at the beginning of December, asking President Obama to release his birth certificate.

135 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:37:41am

re: #107 Mosh

The GOP's cult of personality around Reagan is a farce. Why defend Reagan? He allowed the Democrat Congress to go out of control with spending after tax revenue increased due to his tax cuts. So "Starve The Beast" failed.

He also failed to abolish the Departments of Education and Energy as promised.


Reagan even failed to reform Medicare, welfare, or food stamps.

When he did that twinkly thing with his eyes, it made you feel as though everything was going to be all right.

136 Mosh  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:37:52am

re: #133 PT Barnum

Hello all..just stopping in while I eat lunch. First Day onsite in 3 days...#@%#@ Winter!

Welcome, James is about to break down why Reagan was a rallying point for conservatives, despite the fact that Reagan was an economic moderate.

137 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:38:17am

re: #134 Killgore Trout

That's so craven, to put it in terms of Obama wanting to clear it up. I think Obama has made his feels pretty damn clear: he proved his birthplace, even though there was no requirement he do so.

What a coward Deal is.

138 Blueheron  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:38:31am

re: #81 tradewind

No mistake allowed. Only Presidents and Veeps can make egregious misstatements and have them ignored by the press.
Wonder what would have happened had Newt spoken of our ' corpse-men ' three times over the course of one interview?

Criticism is only applied when Palin misspeaks. Haven't you noticed? ////

139 Girth  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:38:40am

re: #132 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, given that the Tea Party people appear to already have turned on Lincoln, I can't imagine it will be long before Reagan goes on the chopping block.

They've canonized Reagan. If and when someone shows them examples of Reagan directly opposing their ideas, heads will explode.

140 subsailor68  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:38:44am

re: #106 stevemcg

If you strip somebody of their citizenship, what then? Do you put 'em on a boat and shove it into the ocean?

Sure. Think Philip Nolan in "The Man Without a Country."

Of course, with our luck, when the guy gets to the dock he'll probably say something like, "Hey is that the QEII? How cool is that! Yipeee!"

141 Mosh  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:38:46am

re: #135 SanFranciscoZionist

And he made a funny joke about Gorby and Nancy.

142 Gus  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:39:37am

re: #134 Killgore Trout

GOP Rep. Deal insists birth certificate question not a knock on Obama’s ‘legitimacy’

Looks like the nirthers have regained some traction in the previous weeks. Given that the Teapbaggers had Joseph Farah instruct his flock on the nuances of the nirth certificate the GOP might find more interest in the coming weeks.

143 Mr. Crankypants  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:40:03am

re: #141 Mosh

And he made a funny joke about Gorby and Nancy.

I think Bloom County had a great gag about electing an amiable hollywood has been...Why couldn't we have elected Fred McMurray?

144 tradewind  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:40:10am

re: #87 darthstar

Then you must have been listening to Fox or reading Breitbart, because a quick google search of the topic shows no references by national media other than those two. The thing is, what Obama did there is not a big deal at all, and I am not saying it's worth a lot of press.... just that had it been a Republican, press is what it would have had, all over it.

145 sagehen  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:40:21am

re: #119 jamesfirecat

Yes, but he's also the only President they have for the better part of the last century who they can both be proud of and use as a rallying point. Want to see me break it down President by President?

Speaking as a Republican myself (one of a handful of the near-extinct species of liberal Republican)... I'm very proud of Eisenhower.

If by "the last century" you meant the entire 20th (and not just 100 years back from today), I'd also mention pride in the great Teddy.

146 jamesfirecat  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:40:50am

re: #124 albusteve

go for it

Okay all the last Republican Presidents....


George W. Bush.. need I say more?

George H. W. Bush... helplessly tied to his Son's legacy, and couldn't even get reelected to a second term.

Regan: Nothing horrible.....

Gerald Ford: The one man to ever become president without anyone voting for him anywhere near the office because both the VP and the President got tied up in illegal stuff, a cosmic fluke.

Nixon: Need I say more?

Dwight Eisenhower: Exactly the type of "small government" Military man conservatives can rally around, he only created, the Department of Health, Education and Welfare, the Interstate Highway System, and sent Federal troops into Arkansas to enforce integration.

Hover: Need I say more?

So I guess it's either Regan or Warren G Harding....

147 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:40:55am

re: #139 Girth

They've canonized Reagan. If and when someone shows them examples of Reagan directly opposing their ideas, heads will explode.

No, they'll just disregard them. Which actually is sort of Reaganesque.

148 Surabaya Stew  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:41:04am

re: #113 Blueheron

Well then I guess the rest of us had better sit down and shut up also. Charle's blog will gather dust tho.///

Heh, except for Charles though, none of us are on television or radio espousing our thoughts. Perhaps Newt should join LGF instead.
/

149 Petero1818  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:41:14am

re: #119 jamesfirecat

Yes, but he's also the only President they have for the better part of the last century who they can both be proud of and use as a rallying point. Want to see me break it down President by President?

please don't

150 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:41:29am

re: #131 Killgore Trout

I seriously doubt she had any chance of winning.

She was running a distant third. She had no chance at all of winning.

151 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:41:34am

re: #146 jamesfirecat

I was fond of president Hover. He saved on Airforce 1 costs.

152 Mr. Crankypants  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:42:06am

re: #151 Obdicut

I was fond of president Hover. He saved on Airforce 1 costs.

He made good vaccuum cleaners too

153 Gus  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:43:06am

re: #151 Obdicut

I was fond of president Hover. He saved on Airforce 1 costs.

Was that because he could hover?

/

154 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:43:09am

re: #142 Gus 802

Looks like the nirthers have regained some traction in the previous weeks. Given that the Teapbaggers had Joseph Farah instruct his flock on the nuances of the nirth certificate the GOP might find more interest in the coming weeks.

I think so. Although there's some debate on the issue it's well entrenched. I've watched the Paulians go through this for years. The New World order freaks sometimes complain that the 9-11 truthers are too crazy. The Gold standard idiots sometimes think the Birch Society discredits them. The asylum inmates have plenty to fight about but they're all still crazy.

155 DaddyG  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:43:11am

re: #151 Obdicut

I was fond of president Hover. He saved on Airforce 1 costs.

His whole term was up in the air.

156 tradewind  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:43:14am

re: #152 PT Barnum

Meh, he kinda sucked.//

157 Irenicum  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:43:45am

Ha, Fix news is running the "it snowed, thus disproving AGW" meme. I'm shocked!

158 jamesfirecat  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:43:51am

re: #145 sagehen

Speaking as a Republican myself (one of a handful of the near-extinct species of liberal Republican)... I'm very proud of Eisenhower.

If by "the last century" you meant the entire 20th (and not just 100 years back from today), I'd also mention pride in the great Teddy.

I really mean most of the last century. I can trace the list of republican Presidents who republicans can't rally around back to Warren G Harding though!

159 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:44:42am

re: #151 Obdicut

I was fond of president Hover. He saved on Airforce 1 costs.

I've always liked the story about Ford running for Air Force One, and having to be reminded that they'd wait for him...

160 Lidane  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:44:43am

re: #150 Charles

She was running a distant third. She had no chance at all of winning.

re: #131 Killgore Trout

I seriously doubt she had any chance of winning.

Except that the Tea Party types were just cheering the other day because she'd been closing in on Hutchison, and she might have been able to force a runoff.

Being exposed as a Troofer means that her support will evaporate, so for the teabaggers, it's a huge loss.

161 Silvergirl  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:44:43am

re: #152 PT Barnum

He made good vaccuum cleaners too

You're obviously mixing up your presidents. You're talking about President Hoover. Jamesfirecat and Obicut are talking about President Hover.

162 subsailor68  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:44:50am

re: #146 jamesfirecat

Okay all the last Republican Presidents...

George W. Bush.. need I say more?

George H. W. Bush... helplessly tied to his Son's legacy, and couldn't even get reelected to a second term.

Regan: Nothing horrible...

Gerald Ford: The one man to ever become president without anyone voting for him anywhere near the office because both the VP and the President got tied up in illegal stuff, a cosmic fluke.

Nixon: Need I say more?

Dwight Eisenhower: Exactly the type of "small government" Military man conservatives can rally around, he only created, the Department of Health, Education and Welfare, the Interstate Highway System, and sent Federal troops into Arkansas to enforce integration.

Hover: Need I say more?

So I guess it's either Regan or Warren G Harding...

It's not a big thing, but you might want to add an "a" to Regan and an "o" to Hover.

Unless you're actually talking about Don Regan and some guy who can levitate.

;-)

163 tradewind  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:44:59am

re: #142 Gus 802

MSNBC actually had a former Democrat pollster who commented that the Obama administration latched on to the nirther thing and is nurturing it. It's easy to see why.

164 Blueheron  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:45:32am

re: #84 jamesfirecat

Plus if we tried KSM in New York, how far do you think he'd make it on the streets without some kind of government escort?

Jon Stewart says its best if you ask me.

[Link: www.thedailyshow.com...]

OK try him in New York then hang 'em.

165 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:45:32am

By the way Drudge and Rush are now linking to Alex Jones as a news source. 9-11 truthers are openly attending Tea Parties? Where's the outrage on that? Are the wingnuts just waiting for Glenn Beck to mention it before they get outraged?

166 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:46:09am

re: #163 tradewind

MSNBC actually had a former Democrat pollster who commented that the Obama administration latched on to the nirther thing and is nurturing it. It's easy to see why.

It's a free gift with no purchase. You can see why.

What I can't see, is why Republicans presumably in their right minds continue to give it fuel.

167 jamesfirecat  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:46:15am

re: #162 subsailor68

It's not a big thing, but you might want to add an "a" to Regan and an "o" to Hover.

Unless you're actually talking about Don Regan and some guy who can levitate.

;-)

Sorry my bad, but you do see that Republicans don't exactly have a lot of great presidents to pic from recently don't you?

168 Gus  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:47:10am

re: #163 tradewind

MSNBC actually had a former Democrat pollster who commented that the Obama administration latched on to the nirther thing and is nurturing it. It's easy to see why.

The Obama administration is nurturing it? Actually, given the intensity of that "movement" they do a great job on their own including televised speeches by Joe Farah, billboards, and the occasional GOP congressman.

169 DaddyG  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:47:10am

I know its fun to beat up dead presidents... but.

Nixon- opened relations with China. Stood up to the Soviets. Had the decency not to challenge Kennedy's win in Illinois amid some electoral irregularities.

Carter - Did his best to achieve peace in the Middle East. Charitable work post presidency is admirable.

170 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:47:16am

re: #167 jamesfirecat

Sorry my bad, but you do see that Republicans don't exactly have a lot of great presidents to pic from recently don't you?

Zombie Eisenhower might get my vote.

171 Gus  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:48:29am

One of "the stories" of the day.

Palin's Poll Numbers Hit Historic Lows, Even Among GOPers

Sarah Palin has upped her national profile in recent weeks, but a new poll shows that the extra attention hasn't done her any favors. In the latest ABC News/Washington Post poll, the amount of people with a favorable view of Palin has dropped to its lowest point ever recorded by the pollster. More than 70% of respondents said she's not qualified to be president.

172 Mr. Crankypants  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:48:34am

re: #167 jamesfirecat

I dunno..I don't think the Democrats have anything to get too excited about either.

173 Mosh  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:48:38am

re: #146 jamesfirecat

Dwight Eisenhower: Exactly the type of "small government" Military man conservatives can rally around, he only created, the Department of Health, Education and Welfare, the Interstate Highway System, and sent Federal troops into Arkansas to enforce integration.

If Reagan was a true conservative he would've abolished Eisenhower's big government creations like the Department of Health and Human Services.
The Department of Education was established in 1979. There is no Department of Welfare.

The interstate highway system is constitutional under the interstate highway clause. I'm a Republican and "socialized roads" is one of the few big government programs I support. Highways brought untold business opportunities and prosperity.

If you are implying Republicans hate Eisenhower for enforcing integration you are dead wrong. Integration was pushed for by Northern Democrats and REPUBLICANS. Not all Republicans are racists.

174 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:48:40am

re: #160 Lidane

Tea bag the Dems before they Tea bag you!

175 DaddyG  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:48:51am

re: #157 Irenicum

Ha, Fix news is running the "it snowed, thus disproving AGW" meme. I'm shocked!

Linky? They are running snow stories but the only thing I saw on foxnews.com was a bipartisan article about senators taking snow related shots at each other.

176 darthstar  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:49:05am

re: #157 Irenicum

Ha, Fix news is running the "it snowed, thus disproving AGW" meme. I'm shocked!

Yes, but they're always sure to add a question mark to their headlines, as in "Blizzard Proves There's NO GLOBAL WARMING?" - Fox's viewers, who are knuckle-draggers to begin with, don't see the question mark, and believe the headline to be a statement of fact. When Fox is questioned by its critics for misleading viewers, they can say, "Look! A question mark! We weren't stating fact, we were only asking the question as a lead in to our news story (which, coincidentally, had a fair and balanced climate change denier as its only source)." That's why you'll see things like the following on Fox:
"President Obama Sides With Terrorists?"
"President Obama Corruption Scandal?"
"Pelosi's Death Panels A Sure Thing?"

Then again, CNN does the same thing, so one can't simply point the finger at Fox.

177 The Left  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:49:43am

re: #168 Gus 802

The Obama administration is nurturing it?

Yes-- by failing to see all those friendly GOP congresspeople just want to help Obama out, that's all, by giving him the opportunity to clear things up.

This would all go away if only Obama had given us his birth certificate, after all....they're not sayin', they're just sayin.

178 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:49:50am

re: #146 jamesfirecat

re: #162 subsailor68

C'mon folks. Regan was Chief of Staff. Reagan was president.

179 jamesfirecat  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:50:31am

re: #172 PT Barnum

I dunno..I don't think the Democrats have anything to get too excited about either.

What's wrong with JFK?

FDR?

Clinton (Say what you will about Lewinski but its not like he screwed up on policy maters)

Even LBJ did a great job on Civil rights, though he did mess up Vietnam....

180 subsailor68  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:50:36am

re: #178 Jeff In Ohio

re: #162 subsailor68

C'mon folks. Regan was Chief of Staff. Reagan was president.

Heh! Exactly my point about the need to add the "a" to Regan.

;-)

181 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:50:37am

re: #178 Jeff In Ohio

re: #162 subsailor68

C'mon folks. Regan was Chief of Staff. Reagan was president.

And Cordelia and Goneril were...

182 Mr. Crankypants  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:50:44am

re: #178 Jeff In Ohio

re: #162 subsailor68

C'mon folks. Regan was Chief of Staff. Reagan was president.


I was doing radio during the Reagan years...one of the spots I did was called "Leave it to Deaver"

183 RadicalModerate  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:50:48am

Speaking of snow, we're up to 4+ inches now in Dallas, and still coming down like crazy right now, with no signs of letting up.

184 Gus  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:50:48am

re: #177 iceweasel

Yes-- by failing to see all those friendly GOP congresspeople just want to help Obama out, that's all, by giving him the opportunity to clear things up.

This would all go away if only Obama had given us his birth certificate, after all...they're not sayin', they're just sayin.

Yeah, or another angle could be, "the administration is nurturing it by failing to provide the REAL nirth certificate as they've been requesting!!111!"

/

185 tradewind  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:51:08am

re: #166 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't really see a lot of ... or any... credible or important Republicans giving any credence to the birther thing. I do see them denounce it.
There will always be the fringe elements who cling to it, but I'm not worried about a platform battle at the next convention.//

186 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:51:40am

re: #181 SanFranciscoZionist

On Buffy the Vampier Slayer?

187 darthstar  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:51:59am

re: #163 tradewind

MSNBC actually had a former Democrat pollster who commented that the Obama administration latched on to the nirther thing and is nurturing it. It's easy to see why.

Well, that proves it to me. It's a conspiracy by President Obama to make conspiracy theorists look bad. He probably planted his fake birth certificates in Kenya, Katmandu, and Kumbaya just to trap Orly Taitz, Michelle Bachmann, and the entire cast and crew of Fox News. That sneaky bastard!
/

188 Mr. Crankypants  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:52:00am

re: #185 tradewind

I don't really see a lot of ... or any... credible or important Republicans giving any credence to the birther thing. I do see them denounce it.
There will always be the fringe elements who cling to it, but I'm not worried about a platform battle at the next convention.//


Depends on how badly they think that they need the Tea Party people to get elected.

189 DaddyG  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:52:04am

re: #171 Gus 802

One of "the stories" of the day.

Palin's Poll Numbers Hit Historic Lows, Even Among GOPers

...but ...but I thought the socons were taking over the Republican party? /

I still contend that the shouting is part of the normal reforming process after an electoral loss and the adults will come out to play closer to the general election. (Not that the shouting by the fringe will stop - just that the adult voices will be more pronounced by that time.)

190 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:52:10am

re: #183 RadicalModerate

Speaking of snow, we're up to 4+ inches now in Dallas, and still coming down like crazy right now, with no signs of letting up.

Four inches? When you reach 5 feet let us know. /

191 Mosh  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:52:15am

re: #179 jamesfirecat

What's wrong with JFK?

FDR?

Clinton (Say what you will about Lewinski but its not like he screwed up on policy maters)

Even LBJ did a great job on Civil rights, though he did mess up Vietnam...

JFK was great.

FDR created a perverse network of bureaucracy and tried to intimidate the Supreme Court into accepting his economically statist agenda.

Clinton was okay but he raised taxes and did nothing to reform Social Security, even with his large budget surpluses.

192 Lidane  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:52:18am

re: #157 Irenicum

Ha, Fix news is running the "it snowed, thus disproving AGW" meme. I'm shocked!

God, I'm so sick of that meme. My Republican friends on Facebook are now parroting that idiocy. It's tiring.

I'd link them to the articles that Charles blogged about yesterday, but I know it would all fall on deaf ears. They'd rather make pithy comments about how Al Gore will soon be writing about ice ages instead of global warming. Ugh.

193 Mr. Crankypants  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:52:32am

re: #187 darthstar

Well, that proves it to me. It's a conspiracy by President Obama to make conspiracy theorists look bad. He probably planted his fake birth certificates in Kenya, Katmandu, and Kumbaya just to trap Orly Taitz, Michelle Bachmann, and the entire cast and crew of Fox News. That sneaky bastard!
/

I don't think they need his help to look like idiots

194 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:52:38am

re: #179 jamesfirecat

What's wrong with JFK?

Good pick... JFK... increased troops three times in Vietnam, stood up to Russia and brought us close to a possible nuclear encounter, had an attorney general who was tough on organized crime... and bedded down every woman he could get his hands on.

Sounds like a conservative.

195 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:53:25am

re: #189 DaddyG

Doesn't matter, she gave Broder a boner.

196 Mosh  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:53:29am

re: #194 Walter L. Newton

JFK also cut taxes and utilized supply-side economics.

197 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:53:58am

re: #194 Walter L. Newton

Good pick... JFK... increased troops three times in Vietnam, stood up to Russia and brought us close to a possible nuclear encounter, had an attorney general who was tough on organized crime... and bedded down every woman he could get his hands on.

Sounds like a conservative.

Funny how much better they always seem in retrospect.

198 Mr. Crankypants  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:54:14am

re: #195 Jeff In Ohio

Doesn't matter, she gave Broder a boner.

Along wtih Kristol, and any number of other people who thought she was a great pick.

199 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:54:19am

re: #196 Mosh

JFK also cut taxes and utilized supply-side economics.

JFK was a DINO!

200 Surabaya Stew  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:54:50am

re: #169 DaddyG

I know its fun to beat up dead presidents... but.

Nixon- opened relations with China. Stood up to the Soviets. Had the decency not to challenge Kennedy's win in Illinois amid some electoral irregularities.

Carter - Did his best to achieve peace in the Middle East. Charitable work post presidency is admirable.

Jimmy Carter may be many things to many people, but the one thing he is not, is dead. Just sayin'....

201 Mosh  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:55:11am

re: #199 NJDhockeyfan

And that's why I would've voted for him over Nixon.

202 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:55:11am

To work... see you all after 10:00 pm tonight... if I'm awake.

203 DaddyG  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:56:07am

re: #179 jamesfirecat


Clinton (Say what you will about Lewinski but its not like he screwed up on policy maters)

Your analysis is a tad bit partisan. Just sayin'

Clinton dismantled our national defense and security agencies with some questionable policy calls. He also helped lay some of the groundwork for the mortgage debacle (that one was truly bipartisan).

Bottom line... its easy to criticize or demonize Presidents. As we have seen with the current administration many of the decisions they make are the best that can be made at the time and once a man's butt is in that particular seat they tend not to be as utopian or radical as their supporters and opponents hope for.

204 jamesfirecat  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:56:11am

re: #194 Walter L. Newton

Good pick... JFK... increased troops three times in Vietnam, stood up to Russia and brought us close to a possible nuclear encounter, had an attorney general who was tough on organized crime... and bedded down every woman he could get his hands on.

Sounds like a conservative.

Since when have conservatives had a lock on "bedded down every woman he could get his hands on"?

205 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:56:18am

re: #198 PT Barnum

Along wtih Kristol, and any number of other people who thought she was a great pick.

He got his today

206 tradewind  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:56:25am

re: #176 darthstar

Fox's viewers, who are knuckle-draggers to begin with

.....That's a pretty cavalier way to dismiss the great majority of cable news network viewers in the United States.

207 Blueheron  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:57:17am

re: #106 stevemcg

If you strip somebody of their citizenship, what then? Do you put 'em on a boat and shove it into the ocean?

Wrapped in bacon.

In bed.

///

208 The Left  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:57:22am

re: #184 Gus 802

Yeah, or another angle could be, "the administration is nurturing it by failing to provide the REAL nirth certificate as they've been requesting!!111!"

/

Exactly.
Stages of Wingnut Blame-Shifting:

(kinda like Kubler-Ross on grief, but with one crucial difference!)

1. Denial — "There are no extremists on the right". "No one cares what Glenn Beck says."

2. Anger — "Why the GOP? It's not fair!"; "How can this happen to me?"; "Who is to blame?"
"
Once in the second stage, the individual recognizes that denial cannot continue. Because of anger, the person is very difficult to care for due to misplaced feelings of rage and envy.

3. Bargaining — "Ok, maybe there are some wackos in the GOP, but can't we all talk about Ayers and Wright now? What about Soros!!!11!"

4. Depression — "I'm so sad, why bother with anything?" "Maybe it's a false flag operation....there are no Republicans, only RINOs and mobys."

5. Reboot to stage 1, repeat as necessary. "The liberals are the ones making the nirth certificat an issue; it's all Obama's fault anyway for not producing it!"

209 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:57:34am

re: #198 PT Barnum

Along wtih Kristol, and any number of other people who thought she was a great pick.

Everyone went a little crazy there. Palin was perfect, any criticism was monstrous, and any conservative who voiced doubts was screamed down. It was one of those election moments. Highly emotional, completely silly.

I think we're back to reality at this point.

210 Gus  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:57:55am

re: #208 iceweasel

All roads lead to George Soros.

/

211 DaddyG  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:58:11am

re: #200 Surabaya Stew

Jimmy Carter may be many things to many people, but the one thing he is not, is dead. Just sayin'...


Heh. Sorry - that was an unfortunate non-sequitor on my part.

Mea Culpa Jimmah!

212 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:58:12am

re: #204 jamesfirecat

Since when have conservatives had a lock on "bedded down every woman he could get his hands on"?

Yeah, that's sort of a bipartisan position.

213 darthstar  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:58:27am

re: #185 tradewind


There will always be the fringe elements who cling to it, but I'm not worried about a platform battle at the next convention.//

Well, given the platform of "Our opponent is palling around with terrorists, may not be an American ('It's a fair question' sayeth the eye-candy candidate), and a socialist" they ran on last time, I'm guessing any platform change will be an improvement...my guess is god, guns, gays, immigration, terrorTerrorTERROR and locking up women's uteruses will be the major causes that the GOP will have to resolve in 2012 if they don't want to get laughed out of contention.

214 RadicalModerate  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:58:38am

re: #190 NJDhockeyfan

Four inches? When you reach 5 feet let us know. /

Yeah. In Dallas, four inches is pretty much unheard of around here - usually get a inch or two dusting once every couple of years. And our local weatherguy just said to expect a total of nearly a foot of snow by the time it ends around midnight. Glad I remembered to buy milk and cocoa at the store.

215 Mosh  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:59:04am

JFK was the last great Democratic President.

But if we start talking about past elections let me make it clear, I would've have voted for Goldwater 100%.

-supports gay rights
-against DADT
- for low taxes, low regulations, low spending
- tough on Communism and America's enemies.

216 Blueheron  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:59:09am

re: #107 Mosh

The GOP's cult of personality around Reagan is a farce. Why defend Reagan? He allowed the Democrat Congress to go out of control with spending after tax revenue increased due to his tax cuts. So "Starve The Beast" failed.

He also failed to abolish the Departments of Education and Energy as promised.

Reagan even failed to reform Medicare, welfare, or food stamps.

YEAH! Too bad Jimmy Carter didn't get reelected! ///

217 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:59:16am

re: #123 SanFranciscoZionist

It's an idea.

/

Might as well scoop up the poor, too.

218 tradewind  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:59:56am

re: #184 Gus 802

Hell's bells. They'd be fools not to nurture it. Any time your opponent gives you an opportunity like that, why would you let it die?
I would expect the Republicans to do the same thing.

219 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 11:00:44am

re: #218 tradewind

Hell's bells. They'd be fools not to nurture it. Any time your opponent gives you an opportunity like that, why would you let it die?
I would expect the Republicans to do the same thing.

What precisely are they doing to keep it alive?

220 Mr. Crankypants  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 11:00:50am

Well back to work...see you all later.

221 Irenicum  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 11:01:17am

re: #175 DaddyG

As I passed by the channel they were interviewing some guy from the Competitive Enterprise Institute railing about how AGW advocates are extremist. Typical denial crap. Sorry for not having a link. Didn't seem particularly link worthy.

222 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 11:01:31am

OT:

Take the national anthem quiz...

More than 80 countries will participate in the 2010 Winter Olympics, which begin with Friday's opening ceremony and parade of nations. As a primer for the Games, we've built a quiz of 10 national anthems—those for countries with a chance to win multiple Olympic golds, as well as nations that have as much chance to medal as a John Candy-led bobsled team.

223 darthstar  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 11:02:17am

re: #219 SanFranciscoZionist

What precisely are they doing to keep it alive?

Staying in office and not resigning as a group.
/

224 DaddyG  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 11:02:37am

re: #206 tradewind

...That's a pretty cavalier way to dismiss the great majority of cable news network viewers in the United States.

Be vewy vewy qwiet... we're hunting conservatiwes!

225 DaddyG  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 11:03:23am

re: #212 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeah, that's sort of a bipartisan position.

The bipartisan position involves use of the hands? I'll need to review my Kama Sutra again. /

226 Blueheron  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 11:03:29am

re: #117 SteveMcG

There are over 1400 posts fromthe entries last night. Any chance you could just kinda sorta give us a hint?

Thank you thank you :)))

227 darthstar  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 11:03:44am

re: #222 NJDhockeyfan

OT:

Take the national anthem quiz...

John Candy's been dead a few years...you'd think they could come up with a more current fat person to use...not that that would be right, either.

228 tradewind  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 11:05:13am

re: #213 darthstar

Yeah, the polls show that things are sinking fast for the GOP...

229 DaddyG  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 11:05:27am

re: #221 Irenicum

As I passed by the channel they were interviewing some guy from the Competitive Enterprise Institute railing about how AGW advocates are extremist. Typical denial crap. Sorry for not having a link. Didn't seem particularly link worthy.

I love these made up institute names. One of these days I'm going to think up a nice catchy name for a non-existant lobbying group and live on donations. The American Wealth Concentration Group or some such thing.

230 Guanxi88  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 11:06:41am

re: #228 tradewind

Yeah, the polls show that things are sinking fast for the GOP...

On our last legs, from what they tell me.

231 Gus  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 11:06:41am

re: #218 tradewind

Hell's bells. They'd be fools not to nurture it. Any time your opponent gives you an opportunity like that, why would you let it die?
I would expect the Republicans to do the same thing.

The way I see it even if the Democrats "let it die" it wouldn't die. The amount of "nurturing" that is done is only in the capacity of reporting it or talking about it. It's not them that are stoking the fires of nirtherism, it's the fringe elements of the right and this is seen at the Tea Party gatherings, World Net Daily (who sells their email list to the GOP), the infamous Orly Taitz, and other previously mentioned groups and individuals.

232 darthstar  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 11:08:41am

re: #230 Guanxi88

On our last legs, from what they tell me.

Nah...you're turning the corner. Steadfast progress is on the march. Fight the foreign President!
/

233 Guanxi88  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 11:09:43am

re: #232 darthstar

Nah...you're turning the corner. Steadfast progress is on the march. Fight the foreign President!
/

Eh, we'll survive the populist nonsense boiling up now, just as surely as the dems survied McGovern.

234 Irenicum  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 11:10:02am

re: #229 DaddyG

Can I be the CEO of the American Pie Coalition? Mmmmm, pie!

235 tradewind  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 11:10:20am

Seriously?
If you mean is some top official in the administration out giving speeches to whip up the rumors, probably not.
I'm not particularly tight with Rahm, Plouffe, and Axe, so I can't really give you a definitive answer.
Just repeating what the analyst said.
And he wasn't being interviewed by Fox.

Any time there is a crazy theory being tossed around by the opposition, it just makes you look sane in comparison. Why would you want to stop it?

236 The Sanity Inspector  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 11:10:44am

re: #117 SteveMcG

There are over 1400 posts fromthe entries last night. Any chance you could just kinda sorta give us a hint?

Sorry, try this link.

237 The Left  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 11:10:54am

re: #231 Gus 802

The way I see it even if the Democrats "let it die" it wouldn't die. The amount of "nurturing" that is done is only in the capacity of reporting it or talking about it. It's not them that are stoking the fires of nirtherism, it's the fringe elements of the right and this is seen at the Tea Party gatherings, World Net Daily (who sells their email list to the GOP), the infamous Orly Taitz, and other previously mentioned groups and individuals.

This old Tom Tomorrow cartoon from 2007 is highly instructive even now.
[Link: www.villagevoice.com...]

238 Blueheron  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 11:11:45am

re: #126 SanFranciscoZionist

Why not?

Yes why not. They are only criminals after all. No different than someone who burns down a building loaded with people.

After all they are only criminals despite waging an act of war against us because our Congress hasn't gotten off their butts since the end of WW2 and declared WAR against THEM! Why not? That should be the question it seems to me.

239 Blueheron  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 11:13:47am

re: #135 SanFranciscoZionist

When he did that twinkly thing with his eyes, it made you feel as though everything was going to be all right.

No he wasn't Carter. That is what made things alright.

240 Irenicum  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 11:14:33am

re: #237 iceweasel

I love Tom Tomorrow! Funny and insightful.

241 The Left  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 11:15:40am

re: #240 Irenicum

I love Tom Tomorrow! Funny and insightful.

I love him too! I keep meaning to read him regularly but This Modern World always falls off my radar until something pops up elsewhere.

242 sagehen  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 11:16:48am

re: #169 DaddyG

I know its fun to beat up dead presidents... but.

Nixon- opened relations with China. Stood up to the Soviets. Had the decency not to challenge Kennedy's win in Illinois amid some electoral irregularities.

also -- it was during the Nixon Administration that we got

EPA
OSHA
Roe v. Wade
Affirmative Action

some of his less successful liberal moves:

supported the ERA (passed congress, wasn't ratified by enough states)
wage and price controls (foolish, counter-productive attempt to control inflation)
universal healthcare proposal (way to the left of today's senate bill, but Kennedy turned it down thinking he'd get an even leftier offer. he didn't.)

243 The Left  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 11:17:41am

re: #240 Irenicum

Oh you'd love this if you haven't seen it: 2009 the Year in Crazy!

[Link: www.salon.com...]

[Link: www.salon.com...]

it hurts!

244 Blueheron  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 11:19:01am

re: #157 Irenicum

Ha, Fix news is running the "it snowed, thus disproving AGW" meme. I'm shocked!

Well it's kinda hard to believe in global warming when your house roof is collapsing under the weight of snow.....just sayin'. /

245 Blueheron  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 11:23:37am

re: #167 jamesfirecat

Sorry my bad, but you do see that Republicans don't exactly have a lot of great presidents to pic from recently don't you?

No I don't. I liked both Bushes. Nixon was a good President especially in foreign policy. Ford was a good human being.

When the other side apologizes for their idiots then maybe we can talk.

246 sagehen  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 11:23:48am

re: #173 Mosh

If you are implying Republicans hate Eisenhower for enforcing integration you are dead wrong. Integration was pushed for by Northern Democrats and REPUBLICANS. Not all Republicans are racists.

Eisenhower didn't even like the decision in Brown v. Board. He complained about how "radical" it was (even though it was a 9-0 decision).

That said, he also believed that the Supremes are Supreme, and by god he would enforce their decrees. Even if it meant sending the 101st Airborne to invade Arkansas.

247 Blueheron  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 11:24:56am

re: #169 DaddyG

I know its fun to beat up dead presidents... but.

Nixon- opened relations with China. Stood up to the Soviets. Had the decency not to challenge Kennedy's win in Illinois amid some electoral irregularities.

Carter - Did his best to achieve peace in the Middle East. Charitable work post presidency is admirable.

Carter ain't dead. He just looks like he is. //

248 darthstar  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 11:25:37am

re: #245 Blueheron

No I don't. I liked both Bushes. Nixon was a good President especially in foreign policy. Ford was a good human being.

When the other side apologizes for their idiots then maybe we can talk.

I'm sorry about Reagan. I was only 18, and it was my first election. I didn't know any better.

249 Blueheron  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 11:27:37am

re: #173 Mosh

If Reagan was a true conservative he would've abolished Eisenhower's big government creations like the Department of Health and Human Services.
The Department of Education was established in 1979. There is no Department of Welfare.

The interstate highway system is constitutional under the interstate highway clause. I'm a Republican and "socialized roads" is one of the few big government programs I support. Highways brought untold business opportunities and prosperity.

If you are implying Republicans hate Eisenhower for enforcing integration you are dead wrong. Integration was pushed for by Northern Democrats and REPUBLICANS. Not all Republicans are racists.

OHMIGOD!! Where is the flashing red light!
"NOT ALL REPUBLICANS ARE RACISTS!" ///

250 jamesfirecat  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 11:28:08am

re: #245 Blueheron

No I don't. I liked both Bushes. Nixon was a good President especially in foreign policy. Ford was a good human being.

When the other side apologizes for their idiots then maybe we can talk.

They may have been good people, but I don't think their names are very effective at getting the base fired up.

I didn't want to try and say these are horrible or even "not good"" people.

251 sagehen  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 11:28:38am

re: #196 Mosh

JFK also cut taxes and utilized supply-side economics.


Cutting the highest marginal rate from 90% down to 70% (where they stayed for 20 years) is hardly some grand right-wing supply-side maneuver. Please.

252 andres  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 11:30:00am

re: #71 Blueheron

Do you think there is ever a possibility that if we try KSM in a civilian court he may just be acquitted because some juror thinking he was a good boy?

Prepare for KSM's public lynching. It is said to be quite a stress reliever.

Plus what will he obtain through discovery that could hurt our security?

Any sensitive information can and will be censored from public release. It's not the first time this issue has been brought up in the USA Federal Court.

You may want to take the chance. I am not convinced. Wouldn't military tribunals obtain the similar outcomes without the risk to us?

A civilian charge should be

Plus with administration officials stating that he will be convicted and thrown in prison or worse why try him at all?

Because that's how our legal system works. Just because you are sure of someone else veredict doesn't mean we can skip the legalities.

253 jamesfirecat  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 11:31:51am

re: #173 Mosh

If Reagan was a true conservative he would've abolished Eisenhower's big government creations like the Department of Health and Human Services.
The Department of Education was established in 1979. There is no Department of Welfare.

The interstate highway system is constitutional under the interstate highway clause. I'm a Republican and "socialized roads" is one of the few big government programs I support. Highways brought untold business opportunities and prosperity.

If you are implying Republicans hate Eisenhower for enforcing integration you are dead wrong. Integration was pushed for by Northern Democrats and REPUBLICANS. Not all Republicans are racists.

The Democrats and the Republicans seemed to have switched sides on the entire civil rights issue circa 1964 (As LBJ himself supposedly said when signing the civil rights act "I've signed away the south for a generation".

Ever since then, and certainly today African Americans seem to favor the party of Jonson over the party of Lincoln.

Hence why Eisenhower's actions might not exactly endear him to certain sections of the current Republican Base.....

254 jamesfirecat  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 11:35:15am

re: #173 Mosh

If Reagan was a true conservative he would've abolished Eisenhower's big government creations like the Department of Health and Human Services.
The Department of Education was established in 1979. There is no Department of Welfare.

The interstate highway system is constitutional under the interstate highway clause. I'm a Republican and "socialized roads" is one of the few big government programs I support. Highways brought untold business opportunities and prosperity.

If you are implying Republicans hate Eisenhower for enforcing integration you are dead wrong. Integration was pushed for by Northern Democrats and REPUBLICANS. Not all Republicans are racists.

Also its not The Department of Health, The Department of Education, and The Department of Welfare,


Its The Department of Health, Education and Welfare

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

255 sagehen  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 11:40:05am

re: #248 darthstar

I'm sorry about Reagan. I was only 18, and it was my first election. I didn't know any better.

I was 20, I supported Anderson. They threw me out of the College Republicans for that.

256 oldegeezr  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 11:43:04am

re: #73 jamesfirecat

Jamesfirecat… never mind the grammar Nazis and spelling police, they’re all back from “one martini lunches” in the East and the Midwest!

257 prairiefire  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 11:48:44am

re: #256 oldegeezr

We don't have martini lunches in the Mid-West! It's Bud Light and hot wings.

258 Blueheron  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 11:49:52am

re: #248 darthstar

I'm sorry about Reagan. I was only 18, and it was my first election. I didn't know any better.


My first election was for JFK. It went downhill from there.

259 Blueheron  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 11:52:55am

re: #252 andres

Because that's how our legal system works. Just because you are sure of someone else veredict doesn't mean we can skip the legalities.

Yes take care of the legalities then hang 'em. No wonder we are going broke :) /

260 Achilles Tang  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 12:12:01pm

re: #252 andres

Because that's how our legal system works. Just because you are sure of someone else veredict doesn't mean we can skip the legalities.

Sure we can. If you are in the right place at the right time you can shoot an underpants bomber dead on the spot, and be a hero. Only if you miss and only the nuts get burned do we change course and make a presumption of innocence.

Make sense to you?

261 Ben Hur  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 12:28:36pm

re: #21 Charles

Uh, he wasn't trying to blow up the plane. Yes, that's a tiny difference, I know.

That wasn't your point, Charles.

262 andres  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 6:31:30pm

re: #259 Blueheron

Yes take care of the legalities then hang 'em. No wonder we are going broke :) /

Perhaps, but those are the rules. If you don't like the current rules, you are invited to propose changes to them, but they must be applied equally to everyone, not when and against whom it pleases you.

re: #260 Naso Tang

Sure we can. If you are in the right place at the right time you can shoot an underpants bomber dead on the spot, and be a hero. Only if you miss and only the nuts get burned do we change course and make a presumption of innocence.

Make sense to you?

Absolutely. It is uncivilized to be doing street (or mob) justice.

263 SeafoodGumbo  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 8:37:02pm

re: #237 iceweasel

This old Tom Tomorrow cartoon from 2007 is highly instructive even now.
[Link: www.villagevoice.com...]

re: #240 Irenicum

I love Tom Tomorrow! Funny and insightful.

How ironic. Less than two years ago, the Tom Tomorrow you both love made a cartoon that lampooned Charles.

But, those were different times, huh?

264 SeafoodGumbo  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 8:56:58pm

180 degrees from what you used to find at LGF:

Toronto Star Shills for Terror Suspects

The Muslims arrested in 2006 for plotting mass murder attacks in Toronto are still in jail awaiting trial, even though Canada appears to be having some of the same trouble as the US with prosecuting terrorists in civilian courts. But even though no court has ruled on their guilt or innocence yet, the reliably ultra-leftist Toronto Star is acting as their public relations firm, with an unbelievably soppy article: For the families - fear and bewilderment.

show trial

A criminal trial is too good for the likes of Zacarias Moussaoui, who by any definition of the words has to be considered a spy and a saboteur. But he will now be afforded all the rights and privileges of a US citizen, in a trial that has a good possibility of becoming a fiasco. This is a very misguided decision, and I hereby predict that it’s going to come back and bite someone on the ass.
265 SeafoodGumbo  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 9:25:45pm

re: #8 Charles

Yes, that was his excuse -- he was thinking of Padilla. Except that Padilla wasn't arrested on an airplane.

Anyway, if this is true, it actually makes his case even weaker, because Padilla was eventually tried and pleaded guilty in a civilian court and is now serving a long prison sentence.

Andy McCarthy explains why a criminal trial for Padilla was a bad idea:

Padilla is actually the case that best shows the limitations and inadequacies of the civilian justice system as applied to enemy combatants. This fact is obscured because, as the Left keeps repeating, he was eventually transferred from military custody to the civilian justice system, where he was convicted.

Here's what they never tell you: He was not convicted of the most important plot we had against him — the conspiracy with KSM, Binyam Mohammed, and others to carry out a second wave of post-9/11 attacks inside the United States. He was never indicted on that plot because he could not be convicted applying civilian due process standards.

Padilla refused to give information to the FBI, using its regular protocols. It was only when he was designated as an enemy combatant and transferred to military custody (no lawyer involved in interrogations, no Miranda, no case to plea bargain) that he began to give up valuable information. None of those confessions could be admitted under the standards applicable in civilian courts.

Moreover, we knew a lot of other information about him from the interrogations of other Qaeda detainees, like KSM, by the CIA. But that information, too, could not be admitted under civilian court rules unless we were willing to give the sources immunity from prosecution. Since we were never going to immunize the likes of KSM, that was never going to happen.

So how was Padilla prosecuted? By luck, we had another, unrelated case on him. It had nothing to do with his plots against the United States. He was found to be a tangential but complicit member of a conspiracy to support terrorist operations outside the U.S. He was indicted for that plot and eventually convicted. But he received a comparatively minor sentence (17 years) rather than the life-sentence he should have and would have gotten if his major activity could have been proved in a civilian court. Alas, it could not. Thus, he stands to be released from prison in a few years — and, because he is a U.S. citizen, he will be released into our country.

Padilla stands for the proposition that someone can be very dangerous to the American people, we can be in a position to know he is very dangerous based on reliable intelligence, and yet, we can be unable to convict him because of the burdensome due process standards that apply to civilian criminal prosecutions. Padilla is not proof that the system works. He is proof that, sometimes, it cannot work — and that we therefore must have other means besides civilian prosecution to detain and interrogate some of the worst terrorists.

266 The Left  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:02:33pm

re: #265 SeafoodGumbo

Andy McCarthy is head Birther at NRO. Just FYI.

267 SeafoodGumbo  Thu, Feb 11, 2010 10:16:03pm

re: #266 iceweasel

Andy McCarthy is head Birther at NRO. Just FYI.

Well, I don't know his opinion on the birth certificate thing or on Justin Timberlake, either.

His opinions on terrorism are what matter here.

268 stayfrosty  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:43:16am

Padilla is an American citizen so of course he has Constitutional rights. Reid was captured in December 2001, just after 9/11 and well before Gitmo was up and running, as well as the military tribunals Bush created in 2004. It took a lot of time to get the legal apparatus up and running as we went to war, so it's not really the same thing to say Obama's complete disregard for the tribunals that have been operating for years now is the same as Bush not using them before they even existed.

269 Blueheron  Fri, Feb 12, 2010 8:47:01am

re: #262 andres

Absolutely. It is uncivilized to be doing street (or mob) justice.

"The Attorney General drew chuckles from the audience when he responded to a question from Sen. Herb Kohl (D-Wis.) about what the Justice Department would do if the suspected terrorists tried in federal court weren’t convicted.

“Failure is not an option,” Holder said. “These are cases that have to be won.” He later clarified his remarks and said the suspected terrorists would not be set free if they weren’t convicted."
[Link: www.mainjustice.com...]

Why bother with the dance?


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