1 | freetoken Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:54:44pm |
It would seem, by their absence, that the birds don't like being on the edge... but man does?
2 | Killgore Trout Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:57:48pm |
re: #1 freetoken
The complete lack of supertankers makes him depressed.
3 | Killgore Trout Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:00:00pm |
The Ocean Doesn't Want Me Today
4 | windhorse Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:00:37pm |
absolutely, by far... the very best photo yet Charles.....
5 | freetoken Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:00:58pm |
re: #2 Killgore Trout
The complete lack of supertankers makes him depressed.
Without oil, what is a man?
7 | Killgore Trout Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:03:48pm |
8 | windhorse Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:04:00pm |
....the dark... the light.... the head down... the title.... man....
9 | BryanS Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:04:54pm |
re: #5 freetoken
Without oil, what is a man?
Can't imagine it. Nothing to kill or die for, and no religion too...hmm, was that song about the middle east or something?
12 | Irenicum Tue, Feb 23, 2010 12:01:11am |
A beautiful pic. Expresses something of my own feelings lately.
13 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Feb 23, 2010 12:06:59am |
So here is a new conspiracy theory, new to me anyway. I have no idea what the source of this CT is, for all I know the person I heard it from is the sole source of this CT.
Anyhow, this conspiracy theory is regarding all the Toyota recalls. The gist...
It is a plot by the Obama admin. to discredit Toyota, a company traditionally known for reliable cars with higher than average resale values. The goal? To destroy Toyota's reputation, which will somehow magically elevate GM's rep. Just GM's rep, not all the other car manufacturers.
The reason? GM is now owned by The GovernmentTM, and The GovernmentTM will make a ton of money if they just ruin the rep of one of many car manufacturers.
If I were more interested in this person's blather than I was my own beer, I would have said "That's fucking stupid" rather than "Meh".
14 | Velvet Elvis Tue, Feb 23, 2010 12:14:39am |
Well, I think Toyota is proof that well paid union labor can still do it better but I seriously doubt there are any conspiracies.
15 | Irenicum Tue, Feb 23, 2010 12:15:42am |
re: #13 Slumbering Behemoth
Sounds like hardcore ODS to me. That mindset just fascinates me. It's so end timey/us vs them/Manichean. Ultimately it tells me more about the person spouting the view than anything objectively true. I guess the person wouldn't be so amenable to hearing me (or you) say to them "You're so psychiatrically fascinating"?
16 | freetoken Tue, Feb 23, 2010 12:24:41am |
re: #13 Slumbering Behemoth
I wouldn't go any farther than to say that this whole deal smacks of a hate-on-foreigners approach, an outlet to assign blame.
17 | Stanghazi Tue, Feb 23, 2010 12:25:52am |
re: #13 Slumbering Behemoth
Well one of the accelerator probs happened here in San diego - a horrific accident. Tell the kook that.
18 | Irenicum Tue, Feb 23, 2010 12:27:35am |
re: #17 Stanley Sea
Is that the one with the awful 911 audio? It was sickening to listen to that.
19 | Stanghazi Tue, Feb 23, 2010 12:30:03am |
re: #18 Irenicum
Is that the one with the awful 911 audio? It was sickening to listen to that.
Yah. The driver was chp too. I thought that's where it started, but there were prob others before
20 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Feb 23, 2010 12:30:37am |
If I gave 1/8th of a shit, I would have asked "Where did you hear that"? Instead, I let my mind wander off into something more mellow.
There's no convincing a kook that they're being kooky.
21 | freetoken Tue, Feb 23, 2010 12:33:22am |
22 | Irenicum Tue, Feb 23, 2010 12:33:58am |
re: #19 Stanley Sea
Didn't know the chp part. Glad they finally decided to do the right thing, even if far too long after the fact. I'm constantly amazed at how many people don't seem to realize that corporations are just as prone to short sighted selfish behaviour as anything the government can do.
23 | Stanghazi Tue, Feb 23, 2010 12:36:42am |
re: #22 Irenicum
Didn't know the chp part. Glad they finally decided to do the right thing, even if far too long after the fact. I'm constantly amazed at how many people don't seem to realize that corporations are just as prone to short sighted selfish behaviour as anything the government can do.
Yeah-that's the truth. Night all!
24 | Irenicum Tue, Feb 23, 2010 12:37:06am |
re: #20 Slumbering Behemoth
I find that the only people worth engaging are the fence sitters. Those totally committed are already settled into their opinions and typically won't listen to anything that contradicts what they already believe. BTW, cool music. I like the sound.
25 | WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Feb 23, 2010 12:38:18am |
re: #22 Irenicum
Didn't know the chp part. Glad they finally decided to do the right thing, even if far too long after the fact. I'm constantly amazed at how many people don't seem to realize that corporations are just as prone to short sighted selfish behaviour as anything the government can do.
Or they just willfully ignore their own experiences (who HASN'T worked for a company that has been woefully inefficient, wasted money, or made awful decisions?) because it doesn't match their preconceptions.
26 | WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Feb 23, 2010 12:39:35am |
re: #20 Slumbering Behemoth
Thievery Corp is good stuff. ^^
27 | Irenicum Tue, Feb 23, 2010 12:40:01am |
re: #21 freetoken
You definitely enhanced my mellow with that piece. Thank you!
28 | freetoken Tue, Feb 23, 2010 12:42:26am |
re: #27 Irenicum
You're welcome. Cellos are a good late night choice.
29 | Irenicum Tue, Feb 23, 2010 12:43:29am |
G'nite fellow lizards on this quiet wee hours thread. Tomorrow beckons.
30 | Sol Berdinowitz Tue, Feb 23, 2010 12:43:31am |
Just found a photo of my dad, a native midwesterner, standing on the beach in California for the first time in 1967. Those can be life-changing moments.
31 | WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Feb 23, 2010 12:43:46am |
re: #13 Slumbering Behemoth
What's funny is that's pretty much the exact opposite of what's been going i: [Link: jalopnik.com...]
Toyota's been basically negotiating sweetheart deals to avoid recalls, which the government was happy to provide, it seems. until the pressure of all the accel problems became too much to ignore.
32 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Feb 23, 2010 12:44:03am |
33 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Feb 23, 2010 12:46:44am |
re: #26 WindUpBird
Nice to know another metal head that digs TC. :)
34 | Velvet Elvis Tue, Feb 23, 2010 12:47:24am |
NEUROSIS -- Through Silver and Blood -- Roadburn 2009
35 | Irenicum Tue, Feb 23, 2010 12:48:01am |
re: #32 Slumbering Behemoth
Thanks. It's an interesting mix. Mellow with an electronic feel.
36 | Velvet Elvis Tue, Feb 23, 2010 12:51:54am |
I don't really go for electronica the beats just get on my nerves
37 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Feb 23, 2010 12:52:51am |
38 | Velvet Elvis Tue, Feb 23, 2010 1:04:23am |
re: #37 Slumbering Behemoth
Never owned a physical copy of that one, just a downloaded copy in fairly low bitrate mp3s. I might like it better if I heard a better quality copy.
Through Silver and Blood has always been my favorite.
My 12 year old nephew posted to facebook a few weeks ago asking if anyone knew of any "headbanging bands better than slipknot." I've been working on burning him off a DVD and rediscovering all kinds of crap.
39 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Feb 23, 2010 1:08:29am |
re: #38 Conservative Moonbat
My 12 year old nephew posted to facebook a few weeks ago asking if anyone knew of any "headbanging bands better than slipknot."
I wouldn't even know how to respond to that. There are so many to choose from. Big props to you on trying to school the boy.
Slipknot? Really?
41 | freetoken Tue, Feb 23, 2010 1:19:04am |
Republican Legislator: Disabled kids are God's punishment
State Delegate Bob Marshall of Manassas says disabled children are God's punishment to women who have aborted their first pregnancy.
He made that statement Thursday at a press conference to oppose state funding for Planned Parenthood.
"The number of children who are born subsequent to a first abortion with handicaps has increased dramatically. Why? Because when you abort the first born of any, nature takes its vengeance on the subsequent children," said Marshall, a Republican.
"In the Old Testament, the first born of every being, animal and man, was dedicated to the Lord. There's a special punishment Christians would suggest."
[...]
Remind me to never register again as a Republican...
42 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Feb 23, 2010 1:22:58am |
re: #40 Conservative Moonbat
1. You misspelled "Mastodon".
2. Nice selection.
3. Don't do that again. It's foolhardy.
43 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 1:31:01am |
I know there isn't many here, but has anyone gone into the Kos or DU swamps to see what they have said about Dick Cheney's heart attack or whatever it was?
44 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 1:40:06am |
re: #43 Cannadian Club Akbar
I'll tell you what I say: If Cheney didn't have a personal blue code team standing by at all times, he would have been dead ten years ago.
Health care!
45 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 1:44:57am |
re: #44 Cato the Elder
C'mon, Cato. He's only had 4 heart attacks.
46 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 1:47:17am |
re: #45 Cannadian Club Akbar
C'mon, Cato. He's only had 4 heart attacks.
And a built-in defibrillator. Because he's special and important!
49 | Velvet Elvis Tue, Feb 23, 2010 1:48:59am |
re: #42 Slumbering Behemoth
1. You misspelled "Mastodon".
2. Nice selection.
3. Don't do that again. It's foolhardy.
I thought about that some more after I did it. I blame the booze.
50 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 1:49:04am |
re: #41 freetoken
Republican Legislator: Disabled kids are God's punishment
Remind me to never register again as a Republican...
What does this asshole think about people whose firstborn children are disabled?
Wait, I don't want to know.
51 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 1:49:54am |
re: #46 Cato the Elder
And a built-in defibrillator. Because he's special and important!
Ya know, if I were to go through all the BS he has with the heart issues, I would probably just sit in a chair all day long and move as little as possible. At this point the question isn't if, but when.
52 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 1:50:40am |
re: #51 Cannadian Club Akbar
Ya know, if I were to go through all the BS he has with the heart issues, I would probably just sit in a chair all day long and move as little as possible. At this point the question isn't if, but when.
Yeah, props to him for still finding the energy to be an evil bastard.
53 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 1:52:17am |
re: #52 Cato the Elder
Yeah, props to him for still finding the energy to be an evil bastard.
Well, being part of the dark side probably gives you extra incentive. You don't want to piss off the guy leading the dark side.
54 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 2:03:33am |
Out of work? Are you a male? Well, Harry Reid says you are more likely to beat your woman.
[Link: thehill.com...]
56 | freetoken Tue, Feb 23, 2010 2:12:38am |
re: #54 Cannadian Club Akbar
He's probably read the Atlantic article I linked to a while back, which was an in depth look of the long term consequences of economic recession, and especially the effects of joblessness on males.
57 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 2:17:18am |
Charlie Crist at one point had a large double digit lead in the Florida Senate race. Now, not so much.
[Link: www.rasmussenreports.com...]
58 | walahi Tue, Feb 23, 2010 2:22:45am |
Hi all,
I get so dreadfully few moments to post but I have been lurking. I found this article in the Times by David Aaronovich; thought it might be interesting amongst the boffins here at LGF.
The article itself simply highlights various instances of recent memory of scientific denialism as practiced by various groups. The irony the author does give bit of attention to is how proponents of anthropogenic climate change (most environmentalists) are quick to cite scientific evidence for this development. However the same group of people (tenuously) were quick to deny the science in genetically modified (GM) foods.
I suppose that the overall theme is something that translates into all policy and government making: one cannot crunch/disregard facts in order to perpetuate a a erroneous view.
One of the great features of modern thought is the reliance on evidence, otherwise known as the scientific method. This is what propelled technology to the heights we are seeing today. There is no shame in being wrong about an assumption; that only comes when ideas are held onto even though such ideas are shown to be patently wrong in the light of evidence.
So what of that policy making I was on about a paragraph or so back? Often I have written that political parties cannot seriously regard themselves as simply liberal or conservative. The Republicans, for example, haven't shred of conservatism left aside from some vague notions of tax cuts and 'limited government'. Yet, in the same breath many Republicans will talk of protecting social values. This is anomolous since the only way a political party may achieve its ends are through legislation (which means more government!). This small and highly generalised example is only to demonstrate that we are left with 'blue team-red team' politics. The parties identify themselves by what the other isn't.
So my link with the article - yes, right away. Holding on to principle is a admirable quality in many situations. However, this is not the case when dealing with public policy. One must be flexible enough to examine a conflicting view without the sole aim of destroying that counter-point. Where is comes to science, we only have the evidence to rely upon, nothing more.
If a person feels that a study seems flawed, then point out the flaws but at least constructively. We needn't go on a rampage against the producer(s) of reports. Fight evidence with evidence. Only in the realm of morality are principles to be truly admired. In science (and subsequent public policy), strict devotion to principle and ideals is self-defeating.
And with that, I am off to work out here in London. Good day all.
59 | freetoken Tue, Feb 23, 2010 2:28:33am |
re: #58 walahi
The anti-GM movement has had more success in the UK than here in the US, I think. While the "organic" term as a label on items is chic, I've not seen a lot of active anti-GM protesting going on here, unlike in Europe.
61 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 2:34:33am |
re: #60 Cannadian Club Akbar
What's a boffin?
chiefly British : a scientific expert; especially : one involved in technological research
62 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 3:23:06am |
Oh, for the love of Pete. Some doctors group wants to put warning labels on hot dogs. Because kids choke on them. I have a great idea. Cut the fuckin' things up.
63 | RogueOne Tue, Feb 23, 2010 3:41:48am |
More good news:
80% Of Today's Delinquent Homeowners Will Lose Their Houses -- 6 Million In All
[Link: www.businessinsider.com...]
....Another startling assumption here: 80% of homeowners who are currently delinquent on their mortgages will end up losing their houses. Mortgage mods, meanwhile, will just delay the inevitable.(From the perspective of the homeowners, it's probably best to get the inevitable out of the way sooner rather than later, before throwing more money down the negative-equity rat hole.)
64 | RogueOne Tue, Feb 23, 2010 3:42:46am |
re: #62 Cannadian Club Akbar
They suggest you cut them lengthwise. If you do it slowly you can hear them scream.
65 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 3:44:56am |
re: #64 RogueOne
They suggest you cut them lengthwise. If you do it slowly you can hear them scream.
I bet the same people who want to put warning labels on hot dogs will approve of a kid eating stringy celery or rhubarb.
66 | sattv4u2 Tue, Feb 23, 2010 3:57:32am |
re: #62 Cannadian Club Akbar
Oh, for the love of Pete. Some doctors group wants to put warning labels on hot dogs. Because kids choke on them. I have a great idea. Cut the fuckin' things up.
but ,, But ,,, BUT ,,that would put the onus on the parents ,,,, you know , all that personal responsibility and stuff!
How would they ever be able to brimg frivolous lawsuits!!
67 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 3:59:05am |
re: #66 sattv4u2
but ,, But ,,, BUT ,,that would put the onus on the parents ,,, you know , all that personal responsibility and stuff!
How would they ever be able to brimg frivolous lawsuits!!
We need to stand up against BIG HOT DOG!!
68 | RogueOne Tue, Feb 23, 2010 3:59:30am |
Name brands getting the heave-ho:
[Link: money.cnn.com...]
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Don't be shocked if you can't find your favorite salad dressing or mouthwash on your next trip to Wal-Mart.Large retailers -- including Wal-Mart (WMT, Fortune 500), the world's biggest -- are wrestling with having too many types of brand-name products. At the same time, shoppers are buying less and looking for bargains.
Something else for people to consider, the brand name is just a name. Most off-brand products are made in the same factories, with the same materials and processes with just a different name slapped on the packaging.
For example, Wal-Mart recently removed Glad and Hefty-branded storage bags from shelves, replacing them with its own lower-priced Great Value brand, according to the parent companies of both products.In the case of Hefty, parent Pactiv Corp. (PTV) told CNNMoney.com that Wal-Mart reversed its decision, and will return its products to shelves this spring -- after Pactiv agreed to make the Great Value bags that will sell alongside the competing Hefty product.
69 | sattv4u2 Tue, Feb 23, 2010 4:00:49am |
re: #67 Cannadian Club Akbar
We need to stand up against BIG HOT DOG!!
Isn't that what one of Gloria Alreds' clients is doing against Tiger Woods!?!?
70 | Taqyia2Me Tue, Feb 23, 2010 4:02:49am |
71 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 4:02:52am |
Apparently, the Vanderslooth (sp?) kid confessed to killing Natalie Holloway in Aruba. Thank God, now I can get a good nights sleep.
72 | sattv4u2 Tue, Feb 23, 2010 4:03:38am |
re: #71 Cannadian Club Akbar
Apparently, the Vanderslooth (sp?) kid confessed to killing Natalie Holloway in Aruba. Thank God, now I can get a good nights sleep.
I'll bet her parents still can't!
74 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 4:12:31am |
Ah, kids birthday parties. Pizza, whack-a-mole, and gunfire. So precious!!
[Link: www.toledoonthemove.com...]
75 | Boondock St. Bender Tue, Feb 23, 2010 4:21:03am |
re: #72 sattv4u2
although i feel great sympathy for her parents(losing a child under any circumstances is the worst thing a parent can go through)
i do have to ask who the fuck sends their kid to aruba without being there with them?(yeah i know it was a school trip...remember how those things were supervised when you went to school?)
76 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 4:22:42am |
re: #61 Cannadian Club Akbar
chiefly British : a scientific expert; especially : one involved in technological research
What we'd call an "egghead".
77 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 4:25:58am |
re: #62 Cannadian Club Akbar
Oh, for the love of Pete. Some doctors group wants to put warning labels on hot dogs. Because kids choke on them. I have a great idea. Cut the fuckin' things up.
Put warning label on everything edible: "Danger! May cause serious injury or death if inhaled instead of swallowed. Use special caution with infants and small children."
I'm waiting for mandatory notices on all envelopes about possible paper cuts.
78 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 4:28:49am |
re: #76 Cato the Elder
What we'd call an "egghead".
We have a few of those here. We should also add, long winded.
79 | Boondock St. Bender Tue, Feb 23, 2010 4:30:19am |
re: #78 Cannadian Club Akbar
i'd rather hang out with smart people(long winded or otherwise)than idiots....just sayin"
80 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 4:34:25am |
re: #79 Boondock St. Bender
i'd rather hang out with smart people(long winded or otherwise)than idiots...just sayin"
Oh, I agree. But this is a blog, not an actual oral conversation.
81 | Boondock St. Bender Tue, Feb 23, 2010 4:38:26am |
re: #80 Cannadian Club Akbar
true,my typing skills aren't up to much more than the quick comment,so i generally appreciate a good screed.(if only to marvel at folks quick typing ability...lol)
83 | Boondock St. Bender Tue, Feb 23, 2010 4:41:35am |
re: #82 Cato the Elder
this is americer'use dalgum english!!!!!!eleventy!1
84 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 4:42:10am |
re: #81 Boondock St. Bender
true,my typing skills aren't up to much more than the quick comment,so i generally appreciate a good screed.(if only to marvel at folks quick typing ability...lol)
I will say this. If I need an answer or a resource to a question or subject, I'd rather ask here than Google it. We gots some smart people.
85 | Boondock St. Bender Tue, Feb 23, 2010 4:44:26am |
re: #84 Cannadian Club Akbar
yes we do.one of the reasons i love coming here!
(that Latin spouting guy up there is definitely one of them....lol)
86 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 4:45:06am |
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.
--Samuel Beckett
87 | Boondock St. Bender Tue, Feb 23, 2010 4:47:50am |
gotta bring the kids to school...brb
88 | Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Feb 23, 2010 4:50:24am |
re: #84 Cannadian Club Akbar
I will say this. If I need an answer or a resource to a question or subject, I'd rather ask here than Google it. We gots some smart people.
WHAT is your quest?
89 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 4:51:05am |
re: #84 Cannadian Club Akbar
I will say this. If I need an answer or a resource to a question or subject, I'd rather ask here than Google it. We gots some smart people.
42, my friend. That is all ye need to know.
90 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 4:53:10am |
92 | Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Feb 23, 2010 4:54:27am |
re: #89 Cato the Elder
Thanks, Deep Thought. Now, translate what you typed earlier... can't find a translation and don't speak that there Latin. Looks purdy tho.
93 | Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Feb 23, 2010 4:56:27am |
94 | NJDhockeyfan Tue, Feb 23, 2010 4:56:38am |
re: #62 Cannadian Club Akbar
Oh, for the love of Pete. Some doctors group wants to put warning labels on hot dogs. Because kids choke on them. I have a great idea. Cut the fuckin' things up.
The next thing ya know they will put warning labels on zippers.
95 | Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Feb 23, 2010 4:56:57am |
re: #94 NJDhockeyfan
The next thing ya know they will put warning labels on zippers.
FRANKS AND BEANS!
96 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 4:57:19am |
re: #94 NJDhockeyfan
The next thing ya know they will put warning labels on zippers.
Too late for me. I've learned my lesson.
98 | Jadespring Tue, Feb 23, 2010 4:59:12am |
re: #84 Cannadian Club Akbar
I will say this. If I need an answer or a resource to a question or subject, I'd rather ask here than Google it. We gots some smart people.
When I was having problems with computer weirdness the other night LGF saved me from going insane and helped me figure it out. Yes I could have googled but during the computer madness I could barely google. Just writing a post here was hard enough.
Small thing that it was it was really great to have somewhere to get some real time help.
99 | Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:00:45am |
re: #97 Taqyia2Me
Brevity is the soul of wit?
But, that was Shakespeare!! You can't translate backwards! Not fair!
100 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:02:25am |
re: #98 Jadespring
We do have a lot of computer geeks here. And me think that makes Charles look good. There are plenty of blogs to hang around on, but the LGF set up is quite nice. And for morons like me, user friendly.
101 | Taqyia2Me Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:03:03am |
re: #99 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
But, that was Shakespeare!! You can't translate backwards! Not fair!
Uh oh! I must be incorrect then...
Maybe:
short and sweet; hard to beat
102 | Cathypop Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:03:44am |
Morning Lizards,
It's snowing in Texas! I do not like cold weather! Would you people up north please come get this stuff? Now?
103 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:05:05am |
re: #102 Cathypop
Morning Lizards,
It's snowing in Texas! I do not like cold weather! Would you people up north please come get this stuff? Now?
This has been quite the cold winter. Even in Florida. We have another cold front later this week.
104 | Jadespring Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:11:53am |
re: #102 Cathypop
Morning Lizards,
It's snowing in Texas! I do not like cold weather! Would you people up north please come get this stuff? Now?
It's a Canadian plot I think. There was some sort of 'leaked' memo from a Canadian scientist about some major weather control techniques. I think we're testing on the US right now.
It does seem to be working. It's been unseasonably warm up here and we have maybe a quarter of the snow we usually have.
/// of course
105 | MandyManners Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:12:28am |
FUCKING HARRY REID IS BLAMING DV ON THE ECONOMY.
107 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:13:43am |
re: #54 Cannadian Club Akbar
Out of work? Are you a male? Well, Harry Reid says you are more likely to beat your woman.
[Link: thehill.com...]
re: #105 MandyManners
FUCKING HARRY REID IS BLAMING DV ON THE ECONOMY.
Yep.
108 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:14:09am |
112 | Taqyia2Me Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:15:56am |
re: #105 MandyManners
FUCKING HARRY REID IS BLAMING DV ON THE ECONOMY.
Harry Reid, former Senator walking, the perfect dbagger's dbagger.
114 | laZardo Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:16:26am |
re: #111 MandyManners
Gonna' stop now before I lose my temper.
/ducks behind barricades just in case
115 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:16:39am |
116 | NJDhockeyfan Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:16:59am |
re: #105 MandyManners
FUCKING HARRY REID IS BLAMING DV ON THE ECONOMY.
He's working on his poll numbers in NV. They aren't low enough.
117 | NJDhockeyfan Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:18:38am |
118 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:18:46am |
re: #116 NJDhockeyfan
He's working on his poll numbers in NV. They aren't low enough.
If the TPers run a 3rd party candidate and Reid wins because of it, I will never go there.
119 | laZardo Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:20:06am |
re: #118 Cannadian Club Akbar
You mean it's not gonna stay in Vegas anymore?
120 | Cathypop Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:21:14am |
If Reid is correct then I pity his wife. When he is kicked out of the Senate and is unemployed he will be very cranky.
121 | NJDhockeyfan Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:21:50am |
No splitting hairs with Shebab fashion police
MOGADISHU (AFP) – Armed with assault rifles and scissors, the Shebab's religious police are imposing a reign of terror -- as well as crew cuts and bushy beards -- on Somalia's youth.
Wearing a T-shirt with a Western print, a pair of tight jeans and wavy gelled back hair, Ahmed Aydarus Abdi is a dedicated follower of fashion, but not the style advocated in the Shebab's hardline Wahhabi brand of Islam.
"I was stopped by Shebab gunmen who asked me questions about my haircut. They said the way I designed my hair was very silly," he said.
"Without waiting for my reply, one of the gunmen pulled out a pair of scissors and cut off huge locks on one side of my head. He was dealing with it like it was grass, not human hair," Abdi said.
As he recounted how he reluctantly had to finish the job himself, the 19-year-old cast worried glances around him, aware that his appearance was likely still offensive to the canons of Shebab sartorial elegance.
His friends encouraged him to comply.
"If he had attempted to defend his right to wear his hair the way he chooses, he would have been lashed in public, so we restrained our friend," 20-year-old Mohamoud Hassan said.
"He was humiliated and cried after we left the Shebab behind," he added.
122 | NJDhockeyfan Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:23:20am |
U.S. Navy rescues Tanzanian ship, nabs 8 pirates
NAIROBI (Reuters) – A U.S. Navy warship prevented an attack on a Tanzanian ship and apprehended eight suspected pirates in the process, the U.S. Embassy in Tanzania said on Tuesday.
USS Farragut dispatched an SH-60B Seahawk helicopter to MV Barakaale 1 after it raised a distress call saying it was under attack from a gang on a skiff, the embassy said in a statement.
"The helicopter then stopped the ... skiff as it attempted to speed away, by firing warning shots across its bow," it said.
"A boarding team from USS Farragut boarded the vessel and the eight suspected pirates were taken aboard the Farragut."
123 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:24:21am |
re: #122 NJDhockeyfan
I hope they sunk the skiff.
124 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:26:28am |
125 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:28:28am |
re: #92 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Thanks, Deep Thought. Now, translate what you typed earlier... can't find a translation and don't speak that there Latin. Looks purdy tho.
See my #124.
126 | Jadespring Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:28:35am |
re: #120 Cathypop
If Reid is correct then I pity his wife. When he is kicked out of the Senate and is unemployed he will be very cranky.
He's not correct at least not in the sense of what he actually said. There are coralations between social and economic pressure with intensity of abuse of but those corelations do not = 'Men out of work 'tend' to become abusive' as some sort of trigger that changes something that was not already there before hand.
Abusers are abusers, full stop.
127 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:29:11am |
re: #94 NJDhockeyfan
The next thing ya know they will put warning labels on zippers.
Or zippers on hot dogs.
128 | NJDhockeyfan Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:31:32am |
State: West Phila. doctor’s practice ‘deplorable’
State authorities last night suspended the medical license of a West Philadelphia doctor whose practice was raided last week by federal drug agents.
The suspension came after a hours-long search of Kermit B. Gosnell's practice, Women's Medical Society, at 3801 Lancaster Ave. in Powelton Village.
The suspension order says the conditions of the clinic were "deplorable and unsanitary."
It states: "There was blood on the floor, and parts of aborted fetuses were displayed in jars."
The order calls Gosnell's continued practice of medicine "an immediate and clear danger to the public health and safety."
Calls to Gosnell at his clinic were not answered last night.
129 | Spare O'Lake Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:34:33am |
"Concern Troll" my ass.
Good Morning LGF.
130 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:34:47am |
131 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:36:26am |
re: #105 MandyManners
FUCKING HARRY REID IS BLAMING DV ON THE ECONOMY.
It is an indisputable fact that it's a factor.
133 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:38:13am |
re: #124 Cato the Elder
Brevity beats wordiness.
Better to be thought a fool and remain silent than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
134 | NJDhockeyfan Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:39:50am |
UAE identifies four more over Mabhouh killing in Dubai
The United Arab Emirates (UAE) has identified four more users of European passports suspected of involvement in the killing of a Hamas leader in Dubai.Mahmoud al-Mabhouh, one of the founders of Hamas' military wing, was found dead in a hotel on 20 January.
The killing has been widely blamed on the Israeli secret service. Israel has refused to confirm or deny involvement.
At least 15 people using European passports have been identified as suspects in the case.
The British Foreign Office has confirmed it has received information from the UAE about another two suspects carrying British passports, bringing the total number of British passports used to eight.
The Irish Foreign Ministry has said it too has been informed about two more suspects who used Irish passports with genuine numbers but fake names and photographs.
A total of five Irish identities were used.
135 | RogueOne Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:42:03am |
re: #131 Cato the Elder
It is an indisputable fact that it's a factor.
I thought poor sandwich making skills were the cause.
136 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:42:52am |
137 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:44:06am |
re: #136 Cannadian Club Akbar
These guys are gonna keep chasing their tails.
It'll be interesting to see how this shakes out.
138 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:46:48am |
Hey!!! Want your head to explode? I know it's early, but that just leaves more time for clean up!!! This pisses me right the fuck off. Just read the headline.
[Link: www.washingtonexaminer.com...]
140 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:48:02am |
re: #139 laZardo
"Gail" was hot.
Someone here keeps calling for "Gail" to be Secretary of State. Heh.
141 | RogueOne Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:48:28am |
re: #138 Cannadian Club Akbar
I read that last night, reason has a piece on it. If you look through their list of black people they'd like to erase from history it's pretty pathetic. I can't imagine the uproar if Slate/Reason or one of the other online mags did a list like this.
142 | NJDhockeyfan Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:48:34am |
Our Mission is Finally Accomplished… Anyone Care?
I am not naive. I understand that there are individuals who opposed the war in Iraq from the very beginning and I believe their passion, although misguided at times, is rooted in a deep desire for peace. What always baffled me was the reaction they had to pro-victory veterans when we came home. As if we were some robotic arm of the Bush White House. It was foreign for them to understand why winning in Iraq was so important.
Our friends died in this cause. There is no honor in their death unless we complete the mission they died fighting.
Everyone is exposed to the death of someone close to them at least one time in their lives. Cancer, accidents, sometimes it is sudden or violent. Rarely do we see it. But when we do our lives are affected forever because of it. We live in a culture where there must be a reason for everything that goes wrong. Obama is responsible for job loss. Bush ruined the housing market. The tires that blew out on my car that I was driving was a manufacturing error and not due to the fact that I was driving on the sidewalk.
Someone is responsible for everything that goes wrong in America. It makes us feel better to know it wasn’t our fault.
The war in Iraq was no different. While many scurried to blame Donald Rumsfeld, General Franks or President Bush for losing the war in Iraq, they bet against the American fighting men and women to turn the tide of the war. “The mission” in Iraq was evil. The troops would never be maligned as they were in Vietnam.
I don’t begrudge these people. They simply will never get it. They are the type of people you need to protect in a society. They are innocent and naive.
It is the job of the warrior to hide them under the bed and tell them it will be okay, before we run off to combat the threat.
The ones that hold my contempt are those who, even today, know of the sacrifice made, the incredible progress gained and still will not acknowledge what was won on the ground in Iraq. They cheapen the sacrifice of how it was earned. Operation Iraqi Freedom is no more.
[snip]
144 | Obdicut Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:49:30am |
re: #58 walahi
The people involved in GM foods and AGW are very, very different groups, for the most part.
145 | Mad Al-Jaffee Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:50:14am |
re: #138 Cannadian Club Akbar
Hey!!! Want your head to explode? I know it's early, but that just leaves more time for clean up!!! This pisses me right the fuck off. Just read the headline.
[Link: www.washingtonexaminer.com...]
What I find disturbing is the "remove from history" but. Very Stalin-ish.
Good morning everyone.
146 | Ericus58 Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:50:34am |
re: #138 Cannadian Club Akbar
Hey!!! Want your head to explode? I know it's early, but that just leaves more time for clean up!!! This pisses me right the fuck off. Just read the headline.
[Link: www.washingtonexaminer.com...]
Hell, why stop at just Thomas... lump in two of our past Sec. of State that are black too... cuz we all know that no self-respecting black person would be conservative or *gasp* Republican....
Freakin' MORON.
147 | RogueOne Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:51:30am |
re: #138 Cannadian Club Akbar
Hey!!! Want your head to explode? I know it's early, but that just leaves more time for clean up!!! This pisses me right the fuck off. Just read the headline.
[Link: www.washingtonexaminer.com...]
Clarence Thomas, The Mugabe of the Court
[Link: reason.com...]
148 | Obdicut Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:51:32am |
re: #138 Cannadian Club Akbar
That's twisted. Celebrating African-American's achievements is a cool thing. Picking out specific African-Americans and saying that they let their 'race' down or something is stupid as shit.
I think Clarence Thomas is an awful justice and wish he was never on the supreme court. But it's not because he's a bad example of a black historical figure. It's because I disagree with most of his rulings.
149 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:51:38am |
re: #138 Cannadian Club Akbar
Hey!!! Want your head to explode? I know it's early, but that just leaves more time for clean up!!! This pisses me right the fuck off. Just read the headline.
[Link: www.washingtonexaminer.com...]
My head didn't really explode, but that's because there is a very large contingent of the "black rights" community that keeps pushing for government handouts. I don't want to paint with too broad a brush, but there is significant support out there for it. Clarence Thomas has always been singled out by this crowd to get drilled for his independent achievements.
150 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:52:48am |
re: #146 Ericus58
And to address YOUR point, the same group(s) that I specified in #149 are also vehemently against Condi Rice, for the same reason. The idea that a smart, savvy black woman could make her own way into being Secretary of State is absurd to them, and they hate her for her success.
151 | Taqyia2Me Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:52:51am |
re: #138 Cannadian Club Akbar
Fucking Joe Biden musta wrote it.
152 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:53:22am |
re: #148 Obdicut
Do ya like Ruth Bader Ginsberg?
153 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:53:30am |
re: #133 thedopefishlives
Better to be thought a fool and remain silent than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
After I'm dead, I would rather people ask why I have no monument than why I have one.
154 | Obdicut Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:54:17am |
re: #149 thedopefishlives
Um, can you give an example of who is part of the 'black rights' community, and who keeps pushing for government handouts?
Would this qualify? I've been working with a local group who's trying to get compensation for the shipyard, mutions, and other workers who worked here in the Bay Area during WWII, making an enormous contribution to the war effort, and then were forced out of their jobs when white soldiers returned home and needed jobs. It turned a prosperous middle-class black community here in the Bay Area into an impoverished one, and the economic effects are still here today.
Not many of that generation are left alive, but some of their widows are, often the most stable matriarchs in the black community.
So is their seeking compensation for their unjust firing looking for a government handout?
155 | NJDhockeyfan Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:55:01am |
re: #148 Obdicut
That's twisted. Celebrating African-American's achievements is a cool thing. Picking out specific African-Americans and saying that they let their 'race' down or something is stupid as shit.
I think Clarence Thomas is an awful justice and wish he was never on the supreme court. But it's not because he's a bad example of a black historical figure. It's because I disagree with most of his rulings.
What makes Clarence Thomas an awful justice?
156 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:56:18am |
re: #149 thedopefishlives
My head didn't really explode, but that's because there is a very large contingent of the "black rights" community that keeps pushing for government handouts. I don't want to paint with too broad a brush, but there is significant support out there for it. Clarence Thomas has always been singled out by this crowd to get drilled for his independent achievements.
His independent achievements were made possible by affirmative action. Fact.
157 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:57:10am |
re: #154 Obdicut
I mean people who think the government is obligated to give them jobs because they're black. Black nationalists are the most common types of people to fall into this category.
158 | Obdicut Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:57:15am |
re: #152 Cannadian Club Akbar
Better than Thomas? Yes. Especially on abortion rights and litigation rights.
But close to my ideal? Not really.
159 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:58:22am |
Regardless your thoughts on Clarence Thomas, I think comparing him to Idi Amin and Robert Mugabe shows complete ignorance.
160 | Obdicut Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:59:05am |
re: #155 NJDhockeyfan
Consistent ruling in favor of authoritarianism and against individual citizen's liberty. Favoring groups and organizations over individuals.
161 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:59:25am |
re: #159 Cannadian Club Akbar
Regardless your thoughts on Clarence Thomas, I think comparing him to Idi Amin and Robert Mugabe shows complete ignorance.
Agreed. They were/are leaders. Thomas is a follower.
162 | NJDhockeyfan Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:59:48am |
re: #157 thedopefishlives
I mean people who think the government is obligated to give them jobs because they're black. Black nationalists are the most common types of people to fall into this category.
Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton come to mind.
163 | RogueOne Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:59:52am |
re: #148 Obdicut
He's the best justice on the court. The only one with actual libertarian views. He was the only correct vote on the court in both Gonzalez vs Reich and the Kelo decisions.
164 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:00:57am |
re: #162 NJDhockeyfan
Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton come to mind.
That's precisely the sort of crowd to which I refer. They do have a rather significant following, even though they're both buffoons. Unfortunately, they seem to have corrupted the remains of the civil rights movement and twisted it into a "give me free stuff 'cuz I'm black" campaign.
165 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:01:01am |
re: #161 Cato the Elder
Agreed. They were/are leaders. Thomas is a follower.
Who does Thomas follow when making a SC decision?
166 | Obdicut Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:02:13am |
re: #159 Cannadian Club Akbar
Well, yeah. Stupid as shit, likely to inflame, and insidiously racist, given that the comparisons are to dictators of mostly-black countries, and Thomas is a Supreme Court justice in a much more mixed society. I can see someone calling Adi a disgrace to his people. Clarence Thomas was fairly appointed to the Supreme Court and fairly confirmed, and is perfectly well-qualified to sit on the Court.
167 | RogueOne Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:02:33am |
re: #160 Obdicut
Consistent ruling in favor of authoritarianism and against individual citizen's liberty. Favoring groups and organizations over individuals.
Name a court member who votes more consistently than thomas regarding individual rights and limiting federal authority. Name one justice that has consistently come down against the federal commerce clause abuses more fervently than Thomas. Thomas is easily the favorite justice amongst libertarians.
168 | NJDhockeyfan Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:02:36am |
re: #164 thedopefishlives
That's precisely the sort of crowd to which I refer. They do have a rather significant following, even though they're both buffoons. Unfortunately, they seem to have corrupted the remains of the civil rights movement and twisted it into a "give me free stuff 'cuz I'm black" campaign.
They are both race-baiting shakedown artists and for some reason are considered leaders in the black community.
169 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:02:43am |
re: #165 Cannadian Club Akbar
Who does Thomas follow when making a SC decision?
Whomever is most conservative (read: reactionary) that particular day. Then he adds a note about how the decision wasn't reactionary enough.
170 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:03:46am |
re: #169 Cato the Elder
Whomever is most conservative (read: reactionary) that particular day. Then he adds a note about how the decision wasn't reactionary enough.
So, Scalia?
171 | Obdicut Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:04:48am |
re: #163 RogueOne
He is in way, shape, or form a libertarian. He's great on the first amendment, but terrible on the fourth.
173 | RogueOne Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:06:27am |
re: #171 Obdicut
He's the only member of the court that believes the power of the federal government has limitations. The rest go back and forth depending on their ideology but he's the only consistent voice we have. Down with the Man!
174 | Obdicut Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:06:41am |
re: #167 RogueOne
That he's a favorite justice among libertarians doesn't mean that he's a libertarian. Anyway, I'm not trying to get into an argument about what I don't like about Thomas, and I shouldn't have said anything critical in the first place, given this stupid attack on him.
All I meant to convey was even though I disagree with Thomas' politics, comparing him to dictators is stupid as shit. He's a Supreme Court Justice who got into his seat without any shenanigans whatsoever, and any talk of 'removing him from history' is asinine, not to mention smacking of authoritarian revision of history.
176 | Obdicut Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:09:12am |
re: #173 RogueOne
I'm surprised to hear you say that, given his record on favoring police over citizens almost exclusively. But again: He's a Supreme Court Justice, he got there appropriately, he went through the hell of Senate confirmations and public scrutiny, and comparing him to actual murders and brutal tyrants is eye-rollingly idiotic. I also think that Thomas has honest intentions, unlike those he's being compared to.
re: #175 Cato the Elder
Apologies, Cato. My orthographic precision has gone to fucking shit lately. Sorry for the winces.
177 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:13:38am |
re: #134 NJDhockeyfan
At least 15 people using European passports have been identified as suspects in the case.
Next time Mossad needs to borrow passports, I volunteer mine. It would be an honor.
179 | Mad Al-Jaffee Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:15:19am |
180 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:16:16am |
183 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:19:33am |
Tick...tock...tick...tock...
Editors of Arab Dailies Assess: A War between Iran and the West Is Imminent
185 | cliffster Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:20:55am |
re: #181 laZardo
ONLY IN AMERICUH.
Well, given that Texas is in fact, in America, then snow in Texas can indeed only happen in America... !
186 | reine.de.tout Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:21:43am |
re: #174 Obdicut
That he's a favorite justice among libertarians doesn't mean that he's a libertarian. Anyway, I'm not trying to get into an argument about what I don't like about Thomas, and I shouldn't have said anything critical in the first place, given this stupid attack on him.
All I meant to convey was even though I disagree with Thomas' politics, comparing him to dictators is stupid as shit. He's a Supreme Court Justice who got into his seat without any shenanigans whatsoever, and any talk of 'removing him from history' is asinine, not to mention smacking of authoritarian revision of history.
I like Thomas; I've updinged you because I appreciate your lack of Clarence Thomas Derangement Syndrome.
I wish the occasional criticism of Obama in these threads wasn't seen as ODS, as it almost always seems to be.
187 | Locker Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:22:13am |
re: #185 cliffster
You guys didn't secede yet? Thought it was in the works...
188 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:22:26am |
re: #185 cliffster
Well, given that Texas is in fact, in America, then snow in Texas can indeed only happen in America... !
I was gonna say that, but I couldn't come up with a good enough, smart ass answer. Kudos!!
189 | cliffster Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:23:26am |
re: #188 Cannadian Club Akbar
I was gonna say that, but I couldn't come up with a good enough, smart ass answer. Kudos!!
I'm a morning person, so I was on it.
190 | NJDhockeyfan Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:23:35am |
L.A. school district spent millions firing just seven teachers; paid $50,000 bribes to dozens more
...In the past decade, LAUSD officials spent $3.5 million trying to fire just seven of the district's 33,000 teachers for poor classroom performance — and only four were fired, during legal struggles that wore on, on average, for five years each. Two of the three others were paid large settlements, and one was reinstated. The average cost of each battle is $500,000.
During our investigation, in which we obtained hundreds of documents using the California Public Records Act, we also discovered that 32 underperforming teachers were initially recommended for firing, but then secretly paid $50,000 by the district, on average, to leave without a fight. Moreover, 66 unnamed teachers are being continually recycled through a costly mentoring and retraining program but failing to improve, and another 400 anonymous teachers have been ordered to attend the retraining.
191 | Obdicut Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:25:17am |
re: #186 reine.de.tout
I regularly criticize Obama and get away with it, because I'm seen as being generally 'leftist', even though I think such divisions are silly.
Imagine the outrage, imagine the fucking shitstorm if anyone in an article compared Obama to any of these people? I know some morons on the fringes probably have, but can you imagine if someone talked about wanting to erase Obama from history?
192 | NJDhockeyfan Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:26:06am |
Here comes the next bubble – carbon trading
Forget CDOs and other inventions of the great credit bubble. That’s all old hat. Investment bankers are moving on to an area of securities trading that is potentially even more lucrative, and what’s more, even has a social value – saving the planet. Or supposedly so, anyway. I’ve long had my suspicions about the great carbon trading bubble, and I’ve had them pretty much confirmed by a brilliant article which has been drawn to my attention by one Mark Schapiro in Harper’s magazine.
According to Mr Schapiro, carbon trading is now the fastest growing commodities market on earth. Since Kyoto signatories bought in to the cap and trade concept in 2005, there have been more than $300bn carbon transactions, prompting several investment banks, including Goldman Sachs and Barclays, to set up their own carbon trading desks. But that’s just the start. If President Obama and his supporters can institute a cap-and-trade system in the United States – and that’s a big if for this increasingly marooned presidency – demand could explode into a $2 to $3 trillion market.
And here’s the great thing about it. Unlike traditional commodities markets, which will eventually involve delivery to someone in physical form, the carbon market is based on lack of delivery of an invisible substance to no-one. Since the market revolves around creating carbon credits, or finding carbon reduction projects whose benefits can then be sold to those with a surplus of emissions, it is entirely intangible.
193 | reine.de.tout Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:28:09am |
re: #191 Obdicut
I regularly criticize Obama and get away with it, because I'm seen as being generally 'leftist', even though I think such divisions are silly.
Imagine the outrage, imagine the fucking shitstorm if anyone in an article compared Obama to any of these people? I know some morons on the fringes probably have, but can you imagine if someone talked about wanting to erase Obama from history?
I'm liking you a lot!
Glad you're here.
194 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:28:44am |
195 | darthstar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:30:10am |
re: #40 Conservative Moonbat
I'll report this and try and get it deleted because you can download the tracks off my PC from here:
This is how I've got it right now:
[Link: ve.static.net...]
Dude...I haven't listened to the Butthole Surfers in years...mind if I pull a couple songs?
196 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:30:10am |
re: #194 Cato the Elder
It's like people paying for "carbon offsets" to ease their guilt about driving and flying. Most of those so-called offsets are just scams.
197 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:31:37am |
re: #195 darthstar
Dude...I haven't listened to the Butthole Surfers in years...mind if I pull a couple songs?
You like the Butthole Surfers? No wonder we get along so well.
198 | MandyManners Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:32:11am |
199 | cliffster Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:32:18am |
re: #195 darthstar
Dude...I haven't listened to the Butthole Surfers in years...mind if I pull a couple songs?
We're all in love with dying. And we're doing it in Texas.
200 | Obdicut Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:32:36am |
re: #196 Cato the Elder
It's rent-seeking again. And promoting such things as cap-and-trade takes force away from driving the real changes that we need.
I do think a lot of the people promoting them honestly do think that they will do good, and just haven't done the math.
I hate people who haven't done the math.
201 | MandyManners Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:33:10am |
re: #131 Cato the Elder
It is an indisputable fact that it's a factor.
It is an indisputable fact that you are full of shit on this.
202 | Political Atheist Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:33:25am |
re: #194 Cato the Elder
Fictitious Capital. Fictitious income. Exactly what got us in this jam.
203 | laZardo Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:34:03am |
re: #200 Obdicut
I'm the only person in my immediate family that apparently enjoyed AND passed math class in school.
/i'm so ashamed. ;_;
204 | MandyManners Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:34:19am |
re: #202 Rightwingconspirator
Fictitious Capital. Fictitious income. Exactly what got us in this jam.
Did someone say "jam"?
I like strawberry jam on my toast.
205 | NJDhockeyfan Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:34:37am |
Nearly 20 percent of U.S. workers underemployed
Nearly 20 percent of the U.S. workforce lacked adequate employment in January and struggled to make ends meet with reduced resources and bleak job prospects, according to a Gallup poll released on Tuesday.
In findings that appear to paint a darker employment picture than official U.S. data, Gallup estimated that about 30 million Americans are underemployed, meaning either jobless or able to find only part-time work.
Underemployed people spent 36 percent less on household purchases than their fully employed neighbors in January, while six out of 10 were not hopeful about their chances of finding adequate work in the coming month, the poll said.
206 | Cathypop Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:34:56am |
re: #199 cliffster
We're all in love with dying. And we're doing it in Texas.
I'm toasty warm and stuck at home in Texas. Just enjoyed a cheese omelet so I refuse to die right now
207 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:35:21am |
208 | darthstar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:35:32am |
re: #197 Cannadian Club Akbar
You like the Butthole Surfers? No wonder we get along so well.
Before I found the Grateful Dead I was really into country music. Before that, I was into 80s club bands (Plimsouls, Red Hot Chili Peppers--yes, they were a club band when I saw them, etc.). Before that, I was a total wannabe punk...the only one in the small town I grew up in, as the looks I got when I shaved the side of my head were pretty severe.
209 | Political Atheist Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:35:48am |
re: #131 Cato the Elder
Disputable until we see a good study, or at least far better evidence than "Harry says so".
Maybe seeing Harry talk crap incites violent acts of sheer frustration. ;)
210 | darthstar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:36:34am |
re: #204 MandyManners
Did someone say "jam"?
I like strawberry jam on my toast.
Now you're talking preserves.
211 | cliffster Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:36:59am |
re: #201 MandyManners
It is an indisputable fact that you are full of shit on this.
You now what causes domestic violence? People abusing their spouse.
212 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:37:16am |
re: #201 MandyManners
It is an indisputable fact that you are full of shit on this.
Right. Because unemployment and poverty have nothing to do with people getting cranky and beating up their spouses. They would do that even if they won the lottery that day.
Ignore all sociological studies and carry on with your bullshit.
213 | Mad Al-Jaffee Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:37:33am |
214 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:38:18am |
re: #208 darthstar
Before I found the Grateful Dead I was really into country music. Before that, I was into 80s club bands (Plimsouls, Red Hot Chili Peppers--yes, they were a club band when I saw them, etc.). Before that, I was a total wannabe punk...the only one in the small town I grew up in, as the looks I got when I shaved the side of my head were pretty severe.
I ran lights for a band years ago. Down the way (warehouses for practicing) was a punk band. There was a girl with one side of her head shaved, the other side was purple. She was hot.
215 | darthstar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:38:18am |
216 | Unions = Innovation slash slash Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:38:19am |
217 | cliffster Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:38:32am |
re: #213 Mad Al-Jaffee
Aw, can it!
I've been noticing - you are one of the foremost inciters of pun runs around here. You should be ashamed.
218 | MandyManners Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:40:12am |
219 | MandyManners Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:41:07am |
220 | MandyManners Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:41:34am |
re: #211 cliffster
You now what causes domestic violence? People abusing their spouse.
IT'S BUSH'S FAULT.
221 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:42:15am |
re: #216 rwdflynavy
One of my sister squadrons' helos, same one I fly. Go LAMPS!!!
Question: Would the boarding crew sink the skiff after taking the pirates into custody?
222 | MandyManners Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:43:04am |
Man, my knickers are in a twist.
A prominent senator is blaming something other than an abuser for DV.
The rage I feel is indescribable.
223 | Mad Al-Jaffee Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:43:04am |
re: #217 cliffster
I've been noticing - you are one of the foremost inciters of pun runs around here. You should be ashamed.
I would say smuck(ers) you, but that would be rude.
224 | Locker Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:43:28am |
re: #186 reine.de.tout
You'd probably see a lot more participation from independents and even lefties if what we being criticized were policy issues and such. The overwhelming tone of Obama criticism on here, though, seems to be about him being a narcissist or being elite and garbage like that.
There are a number of Obama decisions/issues on which I do not agree or approve of but the last thing I'm going to do is jump on the bandwagon when an overwhelming tone of ODS appears in a comment.
225 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:43:37am |
re: #222 MandyManners
Man, my knickers are in a twist.
A prominent senator is blaming something other than an abuser for DV.
The rage I feel is indescribable.
The blame game mentality, scaled up to a ridiculous level.
227 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:45:14am |
Whatever its merits, if there's going to be a carbon bubble, I'm going to try and get in on it early and make some money.
I missed out on the dot-coms and the housing BS, but dammit, even if I think it's horseshit, making butt-tons of money on a scam that gives me the sanctified odor of one who cares about the planet is just too good an opportunity to ignore.
Then I can buy that beachfront property in the Smokey Mountains when it all fails miserably and AGW swamps Baltimore anyway. And laugh.
228 | MandyManners Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:45:23am |
If a Republican had said that, it'd be the talk of the blogosphere today.
How much you wanna' bet it'll not make even a fucking blip?
229 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:45:26am |
re: #224 Locker
I also believe President Obama get props here when he deserves it. (nuke plants, killing Somali pirates, etc.)
230 | darthstar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:45:27am |
re: #219 MandyManners
Don't fuck with me today, Darthstar.
Thank you.
Good morning to you too, Ms Mandy. And no, I certainly wouldn't dream of fucking with you on such a beautiful day.
231 | MandyManners Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:45:44am |
232 | darthstar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:46:23am |
re: #222 MandyManners
Man, my knickers are in a twist.
A prominent senator is blaming something other than an abuser for DV.
The rage I feel is indescribable.
Which prominent senator? I'll call the fucker's office myself.
233 | MandyManners Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:46:25am |
re: #230 darthstar
Good morning to you too, Ms Mandy. And no, I certainly wouldn't dream of fucking with you on such a beautiful day.
*sigh*
234 | lawhawk Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:46:29am |
re: #227 Cato the Elder
Hey, while you're at it, how about buying up a bunch of beachfront property along the California/Nevada border, Mr. Luthor. //// :)
235 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:46:30am |
re: #222 MandyManners
Man, my knickers are in a twist.
A prominent senator is blaming something other than an abuser for DV.
The rage I feel is indescribable.
There's nothing new about indescribable rage on your part. That's when you revert to four-letter Anglo-Saxon words.
If you don't think socio-economic factors play a role in abuse, you're a fool.
236 | MandyManners Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:46:38am |
237 | cliffster Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:47:18am |
re: #212 Cato the Elder
Right. Because unemployment and poverty have nothing to do with people getting cranky and beating up their spouses. They would do that even if they won the lottery that day.
Ignore all sociological studies and carry on with your bullshit.
Maybe if you spent some time in a battered women's shelter, you would understand how infuriating it can be to hear people making excuses for abusers. Especially high-profile public figures.
238 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:47:29am |
re: #235 Cato the Elder
There's nothing new about indescribable rage on your part. That's when you revert to four-letter Anglo-Saxon words.
If you don't think socio-economic factors play a role in abuse, you're a fool.
If you don't think that's a cheap cop-out for guys who are predisposed to be violent when things don't go their way, you're a fool.
239 | MandyManners Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:47:44am |
CCA in No. 54 has it.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
241 | Locker Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:48:22am |
re: #228 MandyManners
If a Republican had said that, it'd be the talk of the blogosphere today.
How much you wanna' bet it'll not make even a fucking blip?
Probably not, he/she would just say "I was joking and you can all forget about it now."
242 | MandyManners Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:48:22am |
re: #235 Cato the Elder
Fuck you, you goddamned misogynist.
243 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:48:25am |
re: #237 cliffster
Maybe if you spent some time in a battered women's shelter, you would understand how infuriating it can be to hear people making excuses for abusers. Especially high-profile public figures.
Nobody's making excuses, least of all me. But if you don't think circumstances play a role, you're an idiot.
244 | darthstar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:49:06am |
re: #236 MandyManners
HARRY REID.
My guess is he's got my number blocked by now, but sure...another call or email is certainly in order.
245 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:49:15am |
re: #242 MandyManners
Fuck you, you goddamned misogynist.
That's right, bring out the "M" word.
The last resort of a woman with no argument.
246 | cliffster Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:49:42am |
re: #243 Cato the Elder
Nobody's making excuses, least of all me. But if you don't think circumstances play a role, you're an idiot.
You can call "circumstances" to justify everything. My dad beat me, so that's why I beat my wife. It's all my dad's fault...
247 | Locker Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:50:33am |
re: #242 MandyManners
Fuck you, you goddamned misogynist.
It's interesting that it's perfectly fine for you to act however you want but your judgments of others are some of the most harsh I've seen on here. You really think you are so specially that everyone has to get out of your way when you are in a bad mood? Hilarious.
249 | lawhawk Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:51:03am |
Why is it that every time that AG Holder opens his mouth, he says something stupid and insulting the intelligence of all those around him? His latest is that the Zazi plea deal somehow inures benefits to trying KSM in federal court. That's even though they were two wholly different situations, starting with how both men came into US custody.
Zazi was arrested by the NYPD and the JTTF. He was Mirandized. Different levels of evidence gathered. Meanwhile, KSM was held incommunicado for years and harsh interrogation methods were used, and despite all that, Holder decided to short circuit the tribunal system designed to deal with scum like KSM (who actually confessed to plotting and planning the 9/11 attacks among other things) by plucking him from the tribunal system to try him in federal court. KSM was planning a guilty plea before the military tribunal. The very fact that Holder thinks that a federal court could get plea deals is undermined by the fact that KSM sought the same from the tribunal.
251 | Mad Al-Jaffee Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:52:23am |
Meet Giant George, the world's tallest dog.
252 | lawhawk Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:52:36am |
re: #236 MandyManners
Linky:
[Link: www.politico.com...]
What a piece of garbage. Economics is the reason for domestic violence? Nope - it's the fact that person A decides to whack person B and engages in an abusive relationship.
253 | MandyManners Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:52:46am |
Wowza. Progs lining up to defend Harry Reid and the notion that money is to blame for DV.
254 | MandyManners Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:53:10am |
re: #252 lawhawk
Linky:
[Link: www.politico.com...]What a piece of garbage. Economics is the reason for domestic violence? Nope - it's the fact that person A decides to whack person B and engages in an abusive relationship.
*smooch*
255 | NJDhockeyfan Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:53:40am |
TPC: Obama's Tax Proposals Yield $4.9 Trillion (Not the Claimed $1.1 Trillion) Shortfall
The Tax Policy Center has released a detailed 49-page analysis of the key tax proposals in President Obama’s 2011 budget:
Separate discussions below describe each of the proposals including current law, proposed changes, and, when appropriate, the distributional effects. ...
The budget assumes a baseline in which the 2001-2003 tax cuts are permanent (including the estate tax at its 2009 level), the exemption in the alternative minimum tax (AMT) is permanently indexed for inflation from its 2009 level, and that temporary expansions of refundability of the child tax credit and of the earned income credit are permanent. Those provisions would reduce revenues by $3.8 trillion over the 2010-2020 period. TPC’s analysis measures the impact of the tax proposals not against the administration baseline but rather against a current law baseline that assumes the 2001-2003 tax cuts expire as scheduled in 2011 and that the AMT exemption maintains its permanent level. Against that baseline, the administration’s tax proposals would cause much greater revenue losses than official budget estimates show [$4.9 trillion v. $1.1 trillion].
That's quite a difference...$3.8 trillion...fuck!
256 | MandyManners Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:53:44am |
I'm outta' here before I post something that will get my Conservative ass banned.
257 | Ericus58 Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:54:06am |
re: #247 Locker
Why are you interjecting into an issue between those two with your snarky comment? just use your dinger and move on, don't be a troll.
259 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:54:10am |
Alright, it looks like there's a time bomb about to go off in this thread, so I'm going to step out and go to my meetings. Troll barbecue is on the left, prepped and ready; flavor of the day is lemon pepper.
260 | Locker Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:54:32am |
re: #245 Cato the Elder
That's right, bring out the "M" word.
The last resort of a woman with no argument.
Well you might also get the Hamas Sympathizer technique or the "Piss up a rope" method or even the straw man, misdirection operation but yea... more than typical.
261 | Locker Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:55:08am |
re: #257 Ericus58
Why are you interjecting into an issue between those two with your snarky comment? just use your dinger and move on, don't be a troll.
You mean like you just did? I'll be sure to check with you before I make any and all comments. Hold your breath and wait.
262 | darthstar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:55:11am |
re: #247 Locker
I notice a lot of flame wars start by people trying to debate each other on emotionally charged topics. Sometimes it's better to simply say, "Well, you certainly are passionate about this, and while I may not agree 100%, I do see why it upsets you." and then get the fuck out of the way...
264 | Bubblehead II Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:55:35am |
Morning all. See that the daily morning brawl has started without me again.
265 | cliffster Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:55:46am |
re: #248 Cannadian Club Akbar
I'm Rick James, bitch!!
///
What did five fingers say to the face? SSUUUU - LLLAPP!!
266 | Locker Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:55:56am |
re: #262 darthstar
I notice a lot of flame wars start by people trying to debate each other on emotionally charged topics. Sometimes it's better to simply say, "Well, you certainly are passionate about this, and while I may not agree 100%, I do see why it upsets you." and then get the fuck out of the way...
Yea and sometimes the child needs a correction.
267 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:56:21am |
re: #247 Locker
It's interesting that it's perfectly fine for you to act however you want but your judgments of others are some of the most harsh I've seen on here. You really think you are so specially that everyone has to get out of your way when you are in a bad mood? Hilarious.
Mandy is special. So special she gets to have an avatar with a pirated picture of Calvin (copyrighted) pissing on the Arabic word for "Allah". Anyone else trying that around here would instantly get a warning.
268 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:56:57am |
re: #256 MandyManners
I'm outta' here before I post something that will get my Conservative ass banned.
Too bad.
269 | Jadespring Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:57:21am |
re: #212 Cato the Elder
Right. Because unemployment and poverty have nothing to do with people getting cranky and beating up their spouses. They would do that even if they won the lottery that day.
Ignore all sociological studies and carry on with your bullshit.
I agree Cato there are more then enough studies and research that have been done that shows a connection with economic indicators at the rates of violence domestic or otherwise. To the point where I would agree that it's almost indisputable that it is a factor. Key word factor. Even just basic stats bear out that a woman and to some extent men are more likely to experience it if they fall into certain wage and earner categories at the lower end of the scale. I have no idea what Mandy's particular beef is, beyond a general it's BS, but my particular issue is with what Reid actually said. He generalized it too much and related job loss as a cause and then went on to make a stupid statement that losing a job makes men tend to become abusive. Like it actually changed men into something that they weren't before. The roots of DV go beyond just income levels and although they might be a factor it's more corelated with exacerbating something that is already there not as a foundational cause.
270 | NJDhockeyfan Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:58:03am |
Airport scanners still in storage
President Barack Obama’s 2009 stimulus plan included $25 million for airport screening machines capable of detecting explosives like those carried by the Christmas Day bomber.
But more than a year after passage of the stimulus, the Department of Homeland Security has yet to install a single scanner paid for by the bill.
"We have not outlined our deployment schedule as yet," said Amy Kudwa, a DHS spokeswoman. "We're very actively working on a deployment plan. That process has not been completed."
Records show that it took the department almost seven months just to order the 150 Advanced Imaging Technology units covered by the stimulus bill. A spokesman for Rapiscan, the California-based company that builds the machines, said the company has since delivered more than 100 of them to the Transportation Security Administration.
And that’s where they remain.
Imagine how smoothly our health care will go when the government takes over.
271 | Political Atheist Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:58:37am |
re: #256 MandyManners
Be cool Mandy, soon enough these people will remember the great majority of unemployed men who find some sane coping skill to "deal with it". Only the violent few, who would have gone off under almost any kind of pressure act out in violence.
272 | lawhawk Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:58:38am |
re: #255 NJDhockeyfan
TPC: Obama's Tax Proposals Yield $4.9 Trillion (Not the Claimed $1.1 Trillion) Shortfall
That's quite a difference...$3.8 trillion...fuck!
The differential could be in that not all of the Bush tax cuts from 2001 and 2003 are made permanent - namely the higher tax brackets - those in the current 28-35 brackets. Those could be pushed back to their former rates (up to 39.6% or higher) to make the budget figures look better - but still not sufficient to close the shortfall. Doing so is not without a political cost given that those making more than $60k (single) or $120k (married) would see a big tax hike as the rates revert to the former rates. Where I come from, those figures are solidly middle class - NYC metro area with dual incomes.
273 | Ericus58 Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:58:42am |
re: #261 Locker
Oh, I took my comment right at ya. Cato say's his and that's expected. I just ding and move on. But you got right in there and made a swipe at Mandy instead. Not cool.
and you may hold your breath as long as you like....
274 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:59:18am |
re: #270 NJDhockeyfan
Airport scanners still in storage
Imagine how smoothly our health care will go when the government takes over.
Funny, I remember when we were gonna put up a fence along the Southern border.
275 | Jeff In Ohio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:59:34am |
All that and a bag of chips doesn't make Harry Reid less a fool for those comments.
276 | lawhawk Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:00:38am |
re: #270 NJDhockeyfan
Local airports have to have the infrastructure to handle 'em. Newark had to build new areas to provide security screening - other airports have had to expand or build new areas. That takes time and each airport operates on their own schedule no matter what the feds say or pay.
277 | darthstar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:02:23am |
re: #274 Cannadian Club Akbar
Funny, I remember when we were gonna put up a fence along the Southern border.
I've been arguing for years the fence needs to go along the NORTHERN border...and given the results of the last week in Vancouver, I'm guessing Canada would agree.
/
But it was fun when people would scream "We need to close the borders!" and I'd say, "Yeah, let's wall off Canada!" -- the confused looks on their faces were always worth the effort.
278 | Feline Fearless Leader Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:03:04am |
re: #219 MandyManners
Nobody gives Dark Helmet the raspberry! :-D
280 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:03:50am |
re: #277 darthstar
Actually, there are some Northern border crossings with 2 lanes and a wood gate and 1-2 men working.
281 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:06:02am |
re: #280 Cannadian Club Akbar
Actually, there are some Northern border crossings with 2 lanes and a wood gate and 1-2 men working.
And a lot of space in between with no one working and lots of cover.
282 | RogueOne Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:06:09am |
re: #237 cliffster
Maybe if you spent some time in a battered women's shelter, you would understand how infuriating it can be to hear people making excuses for abusers. Especially high-profile public figures.
Let me tell you a story. My brother married a bi-polar woman and had 2 kids. They divorced in Indiana and he got custody because she's crazy. She took the kids and ran to a shelter who hid her and put her on a bus to michigan. 18 months later when he found her he had to file for custody all over again because the state of MI decided they had been in state too long. Another year of lawyer fees and court costs and he again wins full custody so she goes to another shelter where they hid her and the kids and put them on a bus to Illinois. A year later when he finds her again the state of IL pulls the same stunt as MI and he had to go through another year of lawyer fees and court costs to, once again, win full custody. 3 different womens shelters hid her and the kids and footed her atty costs. I wouldn't give a dime to a shelter.
284 | Achilles Tang Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:06:48am |
re: #134 NJDhockeyfan
One has to wonder how many people it takes to ambush one Hamas terrorist. What on earth were they all there for?
Perhaps there was more than one project going on here.
285 | Feline Fearless Leader Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:06:51am |
Good morning Lizards! "Sunny" Philadelphia has rain today -- which obviously could have been another 8-12" of snow overnight given a more southernly jet stream. Instead, a lot of the existing snowpack is melting and headed down the sewers for the Delaware River and points south.
In other news the Feds are now involved with the local school district's spy webcam scandal.
286 | lawhawk Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:09:43am |
re: #284 Naso Tang
That's yet another reason that the Israel angle on the assassination doesn't make sense. It's got too many people involved for a plan such as that. There's simply too much manpower for such an attack - the more people, the more likely that someone will get caught and the plan will go awry.
287 | RogueOne Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:10:38am |
re: #284 Naso Tang
One has to wonder how many people it takes to ambush one Hamas terrorist. What on earth were they all there for?
Perhaps there was more than one project going on here.
Maybe there was a spy convention going on and they needed to do some actual work so they could write it off on their taxes.
288 | NJDhockeyfan Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:11:02am |
Doomsday Predictions Tax Illinois
In order to crawl from beneath crushing debt and reach fiscal solvency, Illinois legislators must choose from a series of options that range from bad to worse, according to a prominent watchdog group.
The Civic Federation wants to launch an intervention that includes significant budget cuts and the largest tax increase package in Illinois history, all in an effort to save the state from a $12.8 billion budget deficit.
“Doomsday is here for the state of Illinois,” said Laurence Msall, Civic Federation President, to the Sun-Times.
The group says it would support a state income tax increase from 3 percent to 5 percent. It also recommends the state tax retirees’ pension and Social Security checks be taxed for the first time at the same rate as workers’ paychecks. They want another $1 increase on a pack of cigarettes and to eliminate $181 million in corporate tax breaks.
If implemented, the Federation's recommendations could shave off $8 billion, but there is a catch.
In order to implement those increases, the Civic Federation says unions should pay more toward their pensions and health care -- but the unions aren't interested.
289 | Feline Fearless Leader Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:11:45am |
re: #286 lawhawk
Or that they'd prefer to use agents that look more like locals possibly? A bunch of European-looking men might work since they could pose as tourists or visiting businessmen, but there would also be places there where they'd definitely stick out as not belonging and thus draw extra scrutiny.
290 | cliffster Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:14:00am |
re: #282 RogueOne
Let me tell you a story. My brother married a bi-polar woman and had 2 kids. They divorced in Indiana and he got custody because she's crazy. She took the kids and ran to a shelter who hid her and put her on a bus to michigan. 18 months later when he found her he had to file for custody all over again because the state of MI decided they had been in state too long. Another year of lawyer fees and court costs and he again wins full custody so she goes to another shelter where they hid her and the kids and put them on a bus to Illinois. A year later when he finds her again the state of IL pulls the same stunt as MI and he had to go through another year of lawyer fees and court costs to, once again, win full custody. 3 different womens shelters hid her and the kids and footed her atty costs. I wouldn't give a dime to a shelter.
Fair enough. But I will say that for your one story, there are 100 stories of women who were getting terrorized by their husband and went to a shelter to get safe and get out. I don't know what you do about the case you describe - it's certainly not the people at the shelters being bad people. It's a bad person taking advantage.
291 | reine.de.tout Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:14:41am |
re: #224 Locker
You'd probably see a lot more participation from independents and even lefties if what we being criticized were policy issues and such. The overwhelming tone of Obama criticism on here, though, seems to be about him being a narcissist or being elite and garbage like that.
There are a number of Obama decisions/issues on which I do not agree or approve of but the last thing I'm going to do is jump on the bandwagon when an overwhelming tone of ODS appears in a comment.
I agree.
I'm just saying it's hard to get a discussion going when the first counter-comment is "they don't like him because he's black", instead of simply stating a counter argument. WindUpBird, after throwing out a bunch of insults, left the thread last night, rather than stay and present his reasons why he thought the commenter was wrong. I would have appreciated hearing what he had to say.
292 | reine.de.tout Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:15:53am |
re: #227 Cato the Elder
Whatever its merits, if there's going to be a carbon bubble, I'm going to try and get in on it early and make some money.
I missed out on the dot-coms and the housing BS, but dammit, even if I think it's horseshit, making butt-tons of money on a scam that gives me the sanctified odor of one who cares about the planet is just too good an opportunity to ignore.
Then I can buy that beachfront property in the Smokey Mountains when it all fails miserably and AGW swamps Baltimore anyway. And laugh.
With Louisiana's really severe coastal erosion problems, all I have to do is wait awhile and the beach will come to me.
293 | RogueOne Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:17:10am |
re: #290 cliffster
If there were some recourse when situations like my brother crop up it wouldn't be so bad. They willingly overlooked a court custody order and hid a woman and her kids, someone should have gone to jail.
294 | drcordell Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:17:27am |
Fox News Televangelist Brit Hume strikes again:
"because I’m a Christian and I believe that Christianity is true, that Tiger Woods and his wife Elin would be a lot farther down the road toward forgiveness and redemption if they were both Christians, but they’re not."
Who knew that the O'Reilly factor was going to start turning into the 700 club?
295 | Spare O'Lake Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:18:05am |
re: #267 Cato the Elder
Mandy is special. So special she gets to have an avatar with a pirated picture of Calvin (copyrighted) pissing on the Arabic word for "Allah". Anyone else trying that around here would instantly get a warning.
You can do better than that, old fella.
296 | cliffster Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:20:12am |
re: #293 RogueOne
If there were some recourse when situations like my brother crop up it wouldn't be so bad. They willingly overlooked a court custody order and hid a woman and her kids, someone should have gone to jail.
Yes, it certainly seems to my non-attorney self that that would qualify as accessory to kidnapping. I wonder how much the people at the shelters you are referring to knew about the court order. I wonder how much due diligence can realistically be done by the shelters.
297 | Guanxi88 Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:20:14am |
re: #227 Cato the Elder
Whatever its merits, if there's going to be a carbon bubble, I'm going to try and get in on it early and make some money.
I missed out on the dot-coms and the housing BS, but dammit, even if I think it's horseshit, making butt-tons of money on a scam that gives me the sanctified odor of one who cares about the planet is just too good an opportunity to ignore.
Then I can buy that beachfront property in the Smokey Mountains when it all fails miserably and AGW swamps Baltimore anyway. And laugh.
Hear, Hear, sir!
I'm just looking to figure out which would be the best way of getting in on this deal NOW, before the marks wake up and realize the carbon-trading thing is, like much else in this world, a fraud and a sham and hoax.
298 | Jadespring Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:20:32am |
re: #292 reine.de.tout
With Louisiana's really severe coastal erosion problems, all I have to do is wait awhile and the beach will come to me.
Are there any names causes for the erosion or is it a just a general 'this is what happens' sort of thing? I'm thinking as an example of something that's been an issue in my area with the lakes where people clear the beaches of 'weeds' and rocks to have pristine sand and then remove the trees to plant nice lawns and then the whole thing starts disappearing.
I ask because I have a strange interest in the subject.
299 | drcordell Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:20:34am |
re: #267 Cato the Elder
Mandy is special. So special she gets to have an avatar with a pirated picture of Calvin (copyrighted) pissing on the Arabic word for "Allah". Anyone else trying that around here would instantly get a warning.
Wow. Just wow. If that's true that's unbelievable. Especially considering "Allah" is the exactly same God of Abraham that Jews and Christians worship alike.
300 | lawhawk Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:20:56am |
Hmmm... which will get more play today in the press:
Consumer Confidence Index falls sharply to 46 in February amid job worries
or
Natalee Holloway is in the news again - as one of the guys who had been under suspicion all along again confessed to disposing of her body (but prosecutors say that his confession was unbelievable).
You know it's a slow news cycle when that Holloway case gets above the fold billing.
301 | NJDhockeyfan Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:21:17am |
Ohio man bulldozes $350K home to avoid foreclosure
MOSCOW, Ohio – An Ohio man says he bulldozed his $350,000 home to keep a bank from foreclosing on it.
Terry Hoskins says he has struggled with the RiverHills Bank over his home in Moscow for years and had problems with the Internal Revenue Service. He says the IRS placed liens on his carpet store and commercial property and the bank claimed his house as collateral.
Hoskins says he owes $160,000 on the house. He says he spent a lot of money on attorneys and finally had enough. About two weeks ago he bulldozed the home 25 miles southeast of Cincinnati.
302 | Feline Fearless Leader Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:21:42am |
re: #299 drcordell
This has come up before and been dragged all over a few threads. Leave it alone. No need to take part in having another open thread turn into a meaningless emotional flamefest.
303 | drcordell Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:23:23am |
re: #302 oaktree
This has come up before and been dragged all over a few threads. Leave it alone. No need to take part in having another open thread turn into a meaningless emotional flamefest.
It won't get another mention from me. I just was completely unaware of it up until this point, and quite frankly am shocked.
304 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:23:42am |
re: #301 NJDhockeyfan
IIRC, the bank wouldn't work with him on reconciliation with his house. And FWIW, you need a big ass dozer to kill a house. At least a CAT D6, probably more like a D11.
305 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:23:46am |
re: #286 lawhawk
That's yet another reason that the Israel angle on the assassination doesn't make sense. It's got too many people involved for a plan such as that. There's simply too much manpower for such an attack - the more people, the more likely that someone will get caught and the plan will go awry.
To me it has all the earmarks of a highly-skilled Fatah operation carried out by operatives who trained for months by jumping through flaming tires.
306 | reine.de.tout Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:23:50am |
re: #298 Jadespring
Are there any names causes for the erosion or is it a just a general 'this is what happens' sort of thing? I'm thinking as an example of something that's been an issue in my area with the lakes where people clear the beaches of 'weeds' and rocks to have pristine sand and then remove the trees to plant nice lawns and then the whole thing starts disappearing.
I ask because I have a strange interest in the subject.
Some of it can be attributed to flood control efforts.
And this wiki article is actually pretty good.
307 | Vicious Babushka Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:24:36am |
re: #286 lawhawk
That's yet another reason that the Israel angle on the assassination doesn't make sense. It's got too many people involved for a plan such as that. There's simply too much manpower for such an attack - the more people, the more likely that someone will get caught and the plan will go awry.
I don't know what connects any of these people to the assassination. It looks to me like all they did was march back and forth in front of the security cams, ride up and down in the elevators, while the real hit team sneaked up the back stairs.
309 | drcordell Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:25:25am |
re: #301 NJDhockeyfan
I read that, looks like an interesting case. Apparently he had an offer to sell the house at price that was high enough to pay off the remaining debt, but the bank refused to accept the offer and forced foreclosure instead. Can't say I blame the guy...
310 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:26:02am |
re: #299 drcordell
Wow. Just wow. If that's true that's unbelievable. Especially considering "Allah" is the exactly same God of Abraham that Jews and Christians worship alike.
The Christian Arabic word for God is Allah. Nuff sed.
311 | lawhawk Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:26:10am |
re: #301 NJDhockeyfan
That's a wee bit extreme although more than a few homes that get foreclosed see their borrowers do all kinds of damage on the way out - including ripping out kitchens, taking appliances, and otherwise gutting the house. Those steps render the houses even more likely to remain on the market and a blight on the communities.
312 | drcordell Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:26:45am |
re: #310 Cato the Elder
The Christian Arabic word for God is Allah. Nuff sed.
It's not just the word. It's the same God. The exact same God.
313 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:27:30am |
re: #312 drcordell
It's not just the word. It's the same God. The exact same God.
About that there is more than a little room for dispute.
314 | Achilles Tang Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:29:46am |
315 | Spare O'Lake Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:30:05am |
re: #299 drcordell
Wow. Just wow. If that's true that's unbelievable. Especially considering "Allah" is the exactly same God of Abraham that Jews and Christians worship alike.
Stick your wedge up your ass, "doc".
316 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:30:17am |
re: #311 lawhawk
I still have my old stove and fridge to put in place of my new stuff should anything bad happen.
317 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:30:21am |
re: #309 drcordell
I read that, looks like an interesting case. Apparently he had an offer to sell the house at price that was high enough to pay off the remaining debt, but the bank refused to accept the offer and forced foreclosure instead. Can't say I blame the guy...
Trouble is, he's more than likely to end up charged with destruction of property that did not belong to him. It belonged to the bank.
The only "homeowners" who own their homes are the ones who have paid off their mortgages.
318 | cliffster Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:31:07am |
re: #312 drcordell
It's not just the word. It's the same God. The exact same God.
What does that mean, exactly? What does, "the same" mean, as opposed to being "different"?
319 | RogueOne Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:32:21am |
re: #303 drcordell
It won't get another mention from me. I just was completely unaware of it up until this point, and quite frankly am shocked.
Your shocked that an evangelical religion is evangelical? Were you stunned when you realized white bread was white?
320 | Jadespring Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:32:25am |
re: #317 Cato the Elder
I can't wait until my mortgage is paid off so that I can be an actual owner and not just an elaborated version of a 'renter'. ;)
321 | drcordell Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:32:28am |
re: #313 Cato the Elder
About that there is more than a little room for dispute.
Maybe according to partisans of each respective faith, but not according to theologians.
322 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:32:56am |
re: #321 drcordell
Maybe according to partisans of each respective faith, but not according to theologians.
Precisely according to theologians.
324 | Unions = Innovation slash slash Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:33:34am |
re: #221 Cannadian Club Akbar
Question: Would the boarding crew sink the skiff after taking the pirates into custody?
It is a hazard to navigation at that point.
325 | Guanxi88 Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:33:53am |
G'morning, all!
Well, as part of intensified efforts to complete the relocation of my seekrit hegemonist headquarters before the end of Spring I've directed my real estate (might as well be a SECRET AGENT, for all the visible activity I've seen outta the guy) to drag a dozen of his colleagues through our current GHQ to put the pressure on for a sale.
We've been on the market only a short while, but the voices that guide my wife are speaking with a particular urgency of late, and I'm sick of hearing it.
326 | Guanxi88 Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:34:27am |
327 | RogueOne Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:35:09am |
re: #309 drcordell
I read that, looks like an interesting case. Apparently he had an offer to sell the house at price that was high enough to pay off the remaining debt, but the bank refused to accept the offer and forced foreclosure instead. Can't say I blame the guy...
From what I read the home had been used as collateral for more than just his carpet store. When his other business ventures went under they came for the house. The lesson here is, don't loan money to this guy.
328 | Bubblehead II Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:35:31am |
Well time to head off to w*rk. But I will leave you to ponder this.
Personally, I think he should be grateful that they did give a warning. If this bomb had been planted by a Islamic terror cell you know there would have been no warning given and casualties would/could have been high.
L8R
329 | drcordell Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:37:12am |
re: #318 cliffster
What does that mean, exactly? What does, "the same" mean, as opposed to being "different"?
Not really sure what you're asking me here. Same means exactly that, the same. Different means the exact opposite.
Judaism, Islam and Christianity all trace their founding back to the same man, Abraham. And all three claim to worship the God that Abraham offered submission to. The details are slightly different in the Quran vs the Old Testament (or Torah) but they definitely all refer to the same man, and the same God.
330 | darthstar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:37:14am |
re: #71 Cannadian Club Akbar
Apparently, the Vanderslooth (sp?) kid confessed to killing Natalie Holloway in Aruba. Thank God, now I can get a good nights sleep.
Let me guess...there's no extradition agreement with Aruba.
331 | Jadespring Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:38:29am |
re: #327 RogueOne
From what I read the home had been used as collateral for more than just his carpet store. When his other business ventures went under they came for the house. The lesson here is, don't loan money to this guy.
Another lesson is be very careful about using your house as collateral any set of ventures that have a possibility of failing. Although common practice it's not without risking some serious consequences.
332 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:38:54am |
re: #330 darthstar
Let me guess...there's no extradition agreement with Aruba.
I think he's from Germany.
333 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:39:51am |
re: #329 drcordell
Not really sure what you're asking me here. Same means exactly that, the same. Different means the exact opposite.
Judaism, Islam and Christianity all trace their founding back to the same man, Abraham. And all three claim to worship the God that Abraham offered submission to. The details are slightly different in the Quran vs the Old Testament (or Torah) but they definitely all refer to the same man, and the same God.
The God that they refer to is defined in radically different ways by theologians of all three faiths, and by schismatics within those faiths.
Not. The. Same.
334 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:40:05am |
335 | drcordell Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:40:05am |
re: #331 Jadespring
Another lesson is be very careful about using your house as collateral any set of ventures that have a possibility of failing. Although common practice it's not without risking some serious consequences.
Yeah, I'm not even sure many Americans fully understand the concept of collateral to begin with. It means when you don't pay, they come and take your shit. This reminds me of the stories that I've read about the sketchy pay-day loans that people take out using their car as collateral. And then act shocked when their car gets repo'd.
336 | drcordell Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:41:54am |
re: #333 Cato the Elder
The God that they refer to is defined in radically different ways by theologians of all three faiths, and by schismatics within those faiths.
Not. The. Same.
Yes, they each choose to define the God of Abraham in their own terms. Because each religion has a different interpretation of how he manifested himself to mankind. But that doesn't change the fact that in each religion, the origins trace back to the same man and the same story of revelation to Abraham.
337 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:41:56am |
re: #335 drcordell
Yeah, I'm not even sure many Americans fully understand the concept of collateral to begin with. It means when you don't pay, they come and take your shit. This reminds me of the stories that I've read about the sketchy pay-day loans that people take out using their car as collateral. And then act shocked when their car gets repo'd.
My friend woke up one morning and they were towing his car. He said he didn't do a payday (actually title) loan. And he didn't. But his wife did. D'oh!!!
338 | cliffster Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:42:09am |
re: #329 drcordell
Not really sure what you're asking me here. Same means exactly that, the same. Different means the exact opposite.
Judaism, Islam and Christianity all trace their founding back to the same man, Abraham. And all three claim to worship the God that Abraham offered submission to. The details are slightly different in the Quran vs the Old Testament (or Torah) but they definitely all refer to the same man, and the same God.
You missed the point of my question. But I can't say that I'm surprised.
339 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:42:28am |
re: #336 drcordell
Yes, they each choose to define the God of Abraham in their own terms. Because each religion has a different interpretation of how he manifested himself to mankind. But that doesn't change the fact that in each religion, the origins trace back to the same man and the same story of revelation to Abraham.
Which is not what you claimed before.
340 | drcordell Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:42:47am |
re: #338 cliffster
You missed the point of my question. But I can't say that I'm surprised.
I'm not trying to give you the dodge, I just can't tell what you are asking. Care to re-phrase your question?
341 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:42:50am |
342 | darthstar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:43:27am |
343 | irish rose Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:44:18am |
Thought I'd come over this morning to check out the tone, in the hope that the bullying situation here at LGF has improved.
I can see that nothing has changed... such a shame.
A very good morning to the people on this thread who aren't behaving like assholes.
Mandy, I lost your email address and I'd appreciate it if you'd drop me an email when you have time.
344 | drcordell Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:44:45am |
re: #339 Cato the Elder
Which is not what you claimed before.
Especially considering "Allah" is the exactly same God of Abraham that Jews and Christians worship alike.Judaism, Islam and Christianity all trace their founding back to the same man, Abraham. And all three claim to worship the God that Abraham offered submission to. The details are slightly different in the Quran vs the Old Testament (or Torah) but they definitely all refer to the same man, and the same God.
Yes, they each choose to define the God of Abraham in their own terms. Because each religion has a different interpretation of how he manifested himself to mankind. But that doesn't change the fact that in each religion, the origins trace back to the same man and the same story of revelation to Abraham.
What exactly has changed across each of these responses?
345 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:46:11am |
re: #343 irish rose
Thought I'd come over this morning to check out the tone, in the hope that the bullying situation here at LGF has improved.
I can see that nothing has changed... such a shame.
A very good morning to the people on this thread who aren't behaving like assholes.
Mandy, I lost your email address and I'd appreciate it if you'd drop me an email when you have time.
Some days are better than others. Haven't seen you in a while. I'll make sure Mandy gets the message.
347 | Unions = Innovation slash slash Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:46:51am |
re: #334 Cato the Elder
Holland.
There are two things I can't stand, people who are intolerant of other people's culture and the Dutch!!
/Goldmember/
348 | Unions = Innovation slash slash Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:47:39am |
re: #344 drcordell
What exactly has changed across each of these responses?
Isaac versus Ishmael for starters...
349 | Jadespring Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:48:21am |
re: #335 drcordell
Yeah, I'm not even sure many Americans fully understand the concept of collateral to begin with. It means when you don't pay, they come and take your shit. This reminds me of the stories that I've read about the sketchy pay-day loans that people take out using their car as collateral. And then act shocked when their car gets repo'd.
Yeah I'm in the position right now where because of the renos that I've done on a fixer upper the equity in my house, according to the bank, has tripled. Which is great of course from an investment point of few. I'm also a small business owner and am starting a new venture next month. The bank has said that they can give me X amount of dollars based on the equity which is cool and would give me more then enough capital to start off on a sure footing moneywise. I doubt I'm going to do it though. I'd rather start smaller then I could do if I had the money because I just don't want to risk the house. If the business fails then at least I'll still have somewhere to live.
350 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:48:49am |
re: #344 drcordell
What exactly has changed across each of these responses?
Your original statement was:
Especially considering "Allah" is the exactly same God of Abraham that Jews and Christians worship alike.
That God is defined differently by all three religions, and not just by "partisans" but by the foundational theologians of all of them. And they certainly do not worship in any way "alike".
Enough with the squishy Karen-Armstrong all-religions-are-the-same-at-heart PC nonsense.
351 | darthstar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:49:58am |
re: #348 rwdflynavy
Isaac versus Ishmael for starters...
Queequeg's law...someone always has to bring Melville into the discussion.
/
352 | Unions = Innovation slash slash Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:50:28am |
re: #351 darthstar
Queequeg's law...someone always has to bring Melville into the discussion.
/
Call me....someone.
353 | Spare O'Lake Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:52:21am |
re: #343 irish rose
Thought I'd come over this morning to check out the tone, in the hope that the bullying situation here at LGF has improved.
I can see that nothing has changed... such a shame.
A very good morning to the people on this thread who aren't behaving like assholes.
Mandy, I lost your email address and I'd appreciate it if you'd drop me an email when you have time.
It has changed...it's gotten worse.
354 | Guanxi88 Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:52:40am |
355 | cliffster Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:52:52am |
re: #340 drcordell
I'm not trying to give you the dodge, I just can't tell what you are asking. Care to re-phrase your question?
You made the statement that all the peoples worship the same God. That's God, as perceived right now, not "the discovery of God" or "the origin of believe in God" (whichever you prefer).
356 | Jadespring Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:52:52am |
re: #349 Jadespring
gosh my post are generally bad this am.... few = view
Sorry folks, my apologizes when I'm tired my brain transposes and reads words differently. It's supposedly some sort of mild learning disability. At least that's what I've been told ever since I can remember.
357 | Obdicut Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:52:57am |
re: #243 Cato the Elder
Do you have any data to show that spousal abuse happens more often in lower-income environments?
Honest question.
358 | McSpiff Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:53:09am |
re: #350 Cato the Elder
That God is defined differently by all three religions, and not just by "partisans" but by the foundational theologians of all of them. And they certainly do not worship in any way "alike".
Enough with the squishy Karen-Armstrong all-religions-are-the-same-at-heart PC nonsense.
So the fact that Islam recognizes Jesus as a Messenger of God and Christianity inherently recognizes Judaism doesn't imply that the God referenced in all three is the same God?
359 | lawhawk Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:53:16am |
State tax revenues declined for a 5th straight quarter, and that's despite many states actually increasing taxes during that time according to a report by my alma mater. The Southwest fared the worst, and some states managed to eke out a gain was the result of legislative changes (in part tax hikes).
The full report is here.
360 | McSpiff Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:54:31am |
re: #353 Spare O'Lake
It has changed...it's gotten worse.
I wouldn't say its worse. Mandy for one has really toned down the attacks lately. I find myself updinging or posting in agreement with her often now.
361 | drcordell Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:54:38am |
re: #350 Cato the Elder
That God is defined differently by all three religions, and not just by "partisans" but by the foundational theologians of all of them. And they certainly do not worship in any way "alike".
Enough with the squishy Karen-Armstrong all-religions-are-the-same-at-heart PC nonsense.
Suppose me, you and MandyManners all meet the same person. Afterwards, we each write down our versions of what happened. Who is to say that those versions won't each be completely different? Who is to say that you, Mandy and myself have drawn completely different conclusions about the nature of the person we just met?
Judaism, Christianity and Islam all choose to worship God in a different way. That does not mean that they are not worshiping the same God. And according to their own holy scriptures, it is the same God. Just because there are Evangelicals that are ignorant to the origins of their own faith doesn't mean I am wrong.
362 | swamprat Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:54:58am |
re: #351 darthstar
Queequeg's law...someone always has to bring Melville into the discussion.
/
Melville was jewish. the first line of "Moby Dick" is actually:
"Call me a schmiel."
363 | Jeff In Ohio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:55:09am |
re: #350 Cato the Elder
That God is defined differently by all three religions, and not just by "partisans" but by the foundational theologians of all of them. And they certainly do not worship in any way "alike".
Enough with the squishy Karen-Armstrong all-religions-are-the-same-at-heart PC nonsense.
Pardon my ignorance, but if 3 ornithologists describe the same bird in different terms, what is different, the description, or the bird?
364 | Jadespring Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:55:53am |
re: #357 Obdicut
Just google the words 'economic factors' or 'economic conditions' and domestic violence. There's tons of info and studies out there about it.
365 | McSpiff Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:55:58am |
re: #363 Jeff In Ohio
Pardon my ignorance, but if 3 ornithologists describe the same bird in different terms, what is different, the description, or the bird?
Especially when the all recognize at the outset that they are in fact describing the same bird.
366 | drcordell Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:56:01am |
re: #350 Cato the Elder
That God is defined differently by all three religions, and not just by "partisans" but by the foundational theologians of all of them. And they certainly do not worship in any way "alike".
Enough with the squishy Karen-Armstrong all-religions-are-the-same-at-heart PC nonsense.
And it's not "all religions are the same at heart." It's that the Holy Books of Judaism, Christianity and Islam all explicitly describe the exact same God when referencing the foundation of their religion.
367 | McSpiff Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:57:05am |
re: #366 drcordell
And it's not "all religions are the same at heart." It's that the Holy Books of Judaism, Christianity and Islam all explicitly describe the exact same God when referencing the foundation of their religion.
As well as clearly stating their linage. Islam -> Christianity -> Judaism.
368 | drcordell Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:57:06am |
re: #363 Jeff In Ohio
Pardon my ignorance, but if 3 ornithologists describe the same bird in different terms, what is different, the description, or the bird?
Perfect analogy.
369 | Obdicut Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:57:41am |
370 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:57:49am |
re: #358 McSpiff
So the fact that Islam recognizes Jesus as a Messenger of God and Christianity inherently recognizes Judaism doesn't imply that the God referenced in all three is the same God?
No. Israel's God is the God of Israel, Christianity's is the Triune God of all peoples, and Islam's is the God who, in the words of the great Jewish theologian Franz Rosenzweig, "might just as well not have bothered to create the world" (quoting from memory).
Israel's is the Jealous God who worries about what you eat, Christianity's is the God of Mercy, and Islam's is the God who will lead you astray and throw you into hell just because he feels like it.
I could go on.
372 | lawhawk Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:58:08am |
re: #357 Obdicut
It's a risk factor (or see here), but I haven't seen actual statistics on the matter.
373 | suchislife Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:58:15am |
re: #350 Cato the Elder
Enough with the squishy Karen-Armstrong all-religions-are-the-same-at-heart PC nonsense.
I think that's an unfair characterization. There is a lot of serious theological debate about whether the abrahamic religions worship the same god or not. It's an important question for the catholic religion, for example, and there are people trying to argue that because of this common root, the christian churches should have an ecomenical relationship with islam. The official line is that at the very least, muslims and christians have a special kinship that is closer then the relation either has to wisdom religions or atheists.
Personally, I've always thought it doubtful that any two persons worship the same god, and it seems pretty obvious to me that not all Christians do.
374 | McSpiff Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:58:42am |
re: #370 Cato the Elder
No. Israel's God is the God of Israel, Christianity's is the Triune God of all peoples, and Islam's is the God who, in the words of the great Jewish theologian Franz Rosenzweig, "might just as well not have bothered to create the world" (quoting from memory).
Israel's is the Jealous God who worries about what you eat, Christianity's is the God of Mercy, and Islam's is the God who will lead you astray and throw you into hell just because he feels like it.
I could go on.
You could, except several thousand years of theology would disagree with you.
375 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:58:44am |
re: #367 McSpiff
As well as clearly stating their linage. Islam -> Christianity -> Judaism.
Are you saying Islam was first? Me confused.
376 | cliffster Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:58:56am |
re: #363 Jeff In Ohio
Pardon my ignorance, but if 3 ornithologists describe the same bird in different terms, what is different, the description, or the bird?
If the three of them all see a sparrow, and one of them goes back home and describes an ostrich, he is describing a different bird.
377 | jaunte Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:59:41am |
re: #363 Jeff In Ohio
Pardon my ignorance, but if 3 ornithologists describe the same bird in different terms, what is different, the description, or the bird?
I'm pretty sure this is a category error. The concept of a God is an internal idea, but a bird has a separate existence apart from humans.
378 | McSpiff Tue, Feb 23, 2010 7:59:46am |
re: #375 Cannadian Club Akbar
Are you saying Islam was first? Me confused.
Err, you're right, I listed that backwards for some reason. Read the '->' as 'acknowledges' and it should make somewhat more sense.
379 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:00:14am |
re: #374 McSpiff
You could, except several thousand years of theology would disagree with you.
Your ignorance of theology is matched only by your ignorance of your ignorance.
380 | Guanxi88 Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:00:18am |
re: #358 McSpiff
So the fact that Islam recognizes Jesus as a Messenger of God and Christianity inherently recognizes Judaism doesn't imply that the God referenced in all three is the same God?
I'd say no, and this for a range of reasons:
1) Jesus is, on the Muslim view, a prophet of Islam, whose teachings were distorted and rejected by those who claimed to take them up. Mohammed came later, and received the correct, pure, undistorted word. Very different
2) Christianity certainly doesn't recognize Judaism except as a fact of history and anthropology. Were Christianity and Judaism even slightly similar, there might not be a Christianity in the first place. Christianity is very different from Judaism.
3) Judaism can, intellectually, recognize traces of its teachings and traditions in the two later faiths. Hardly surprising, but certainly NOT grounds for concluding similarities of theology or even supporting the claim that all three are referring to the same Being.
Or, another way:
The Divine is like fire - it is uniform in its properties, but diverse in its effects on matter. It hardens eggs, softens wax, and boils water - these are three very different things it does. While its nature (fire's) is unchanged in each of these three interactions with matter, the effects are varied, and therefore, for an egg, Fire is a hardening thing; for wax, it is a softening thing, and for water, it is that which boils things away. These three characterisations of Fire are so radically different as to lead one to conclude that - even though in all three cases the same agency is at work - the diversity of effect is such as to obscure this fact, and therefore, Fire for an egg is not the same as Fire for wax.
381 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:00:18am |
re: #378 McSpiff
Err, you're right, I listed that backwards for some reason. Read the '->' as 'acknowledges' and it should make somewhat more sense.
Cool. Thank you.
382 | Jadespring Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:00:36am |
re: #366 drcordell
And it's not "all religions are the same at heart." It's that the Holy Books of Judaism, Christianity and Islam all explicitly describe the exact same God when referencing the foundation of their religion.
Jesus is even referred to in the Koran.
383 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:01:04am |
re: #375 Cannadian Club Akbar
Are you saying Islam was first? Me confused.
According to Islam, it is the first. Judaism and Christianity were aberrations.
384 | Obdicut Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:01:09am |
re: #379 Cato the Elder
Hey Cato, how strong are you on the first five books of the Bible?
385 | Guanxi88 Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:01:31am |
re: #365 McSpiff
Especially when the all recognize at the outset that they are in fact describing the same bird.
Not really - two of the three are claiming to describe a bird imperfectly or incompletely described (or whose nature was willfully distorted) by an earlier ornithologist.
386 | Killgore Trout Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:01:44am |
387 | Spare O'Lake Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:02:12am |
re: #360 McSpiff
I wouldn't say its worse. Mandy for one has really toned down the attacks lately. I find myself updinging or posting in agreement with her often now.
Mandy has never been a problem here except for those very few losers who are jealous of how well she is liked.
388 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:02:23am |
re: #382 Jadespring
Jesus is even referred to in the Koran.
Whoop-de-do! So is Alexander the Great. As a prophet, of all things.
389 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:02:25am |
re: #383 Cato the Elder
According to Islam, it is the first. Judaism and Christianity were aberrations.
I always heard they consider it (the Koran) the Final Chapter with regards to religious text.
390 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:02:28am |
re: #370 Cato the Elder
Your extreme dislike of Islam makes it hard to have a serious discussion on this subject >>
391 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:03:37am |
re: #390 windsagio
Your extreme dislike of Islam makes it hard to have a serious discussion on this subject >>
I do not have an "extreme dislike of Islam". That would be Mandy.
392 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:04:26am |
re: #387 Spare O'Lake
actually, its fun to see how she's managed to modify behavior once people started to call her on it. Its always good to see change for the better :)
393 | Mad Al-Jaffee Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:04:34am |
I'm still trying to figure out what "Blessed are the cheesemakers" means.
394 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:04:36am |
re: #384 Obdicut
Hey Cato, how strong are you on the first five books of the Bible?
Strong enough to wrestle with an angel.
396 | Guanxi88 Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:05:15am |
re: #393 Mad Al-Jaffee
I'm still trying to figure out what "Blessed are the cheesemakers" means.
He's speaking in parables. He's referring to all workers in the dairy industry.
397 | Guanxi88 Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:05:28am |
398 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:05:29am |
re: #393 Mad Al-Jaffee
I'm still trying to figure out what "Blessed are the cheesemakers" means.
That is the prayer said before a Green Bay Packers game.
//
399 | Walter L. Newton Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:05:38am |
re: #361 drcordell
Suppose me, you and MandyManners all meet the same person. Afterwards, we each write down our versions of what happened. Who is to say that those versions won't each be completely different? Who is to say that you, Mandy and myself have drawn completely different conclusions about the nature of the person we just met?
Judaism, Christianity and Islam all choose to worship God in a different way. That does not mean that they are not worshiping the same God. And according to their own holy scriptures, it is the same God. Just because there are Evangelicals that are ignorant to the origins of their own faith doesn't mean I am wrong.
The are worshiping the lead character in a tale, mystical writings that combine pseudo-history, cross-cultural borrowings and purely invented incidents.
400 | suchislife Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:05:52am |
re: #373 suchislife
But I by no means want to downplay the theological differences between the three religions. There are glaring ones, and subtle ones. One I always thought was fascinating was how very different the three religions perceive theological status of their respective holy scripts, and its relationship to other documents, both theological and historical.
401 | drcordell Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:05:53am |
re: #370 Cato the Elder
No. Israel's God is the God of Israel, Christianity's is the Triune God of all peoples, and Islam's is the God who, in the words of the great Jewish theologian Franz Rosenzweig, "might just as well not have bothered to create the world" (quoting from memory).
Israel's is the Jealous God who worries about what you eat, Christianity's is the God of Mercy, and Islam's is the God who will lead you astray and throw you into hell just because he feels like it.
I could go on.
You could go on, but you would only further demonstrate your ignorance with regard to the topic at hand. You simply can't see past the fact that over the course of several thousand years, three faiths that originated from the worship of the same God have managed to establish contrasting tenets.
You keep speaking of theology this, theology that, but all you mention are the practical differences between Islam, Judaism and Christianity. We are talking about the fundamental origins of each faith as described in their own holy texts. Practices in modern worship are completely irrelevant.
402 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:06:26am |
re: #391 Cato the Elder
its comparative maybe. You sure do rip on it in this thread :p
Now I have some issues with Islamic theology (and especially culture) but its always a bit iffy to jump on any faith that way, at least imho.
403 | Unions = Innovation slash slash Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:06:59am |
re: #382 Jadespring
Jesus is even referred to in the Koran.
But as a prophet, not an incarnation of God.
404 | albusteve Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:07:00am |
re: #379 Cato the Elder
Your ignorance of theology is matched only by your ignorance of your ignorance.
I'm stealing that
405 | Bagua Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:07:03am |
re: #262 darthstar
I notice a lot of flame wars start by people trying to debate each other on emotionally charged topics. Sometimes it's better to simply say, "Well, you certainly are passionate about this, and while I may not agree 100%, I do see why it upsets you." and then get the fuck out of the way...
Good point.
406 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:07:12am |
As far as religious debate here goes, I'm putting my money on the Atheist. Heh.
407 | simoom Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:07:14am |
re: #255 NJDhockeyfan
TPC: Obama's Tax Proposals Yield $4.9 Trillion (Not the Claimed $1.1 Trillion) Shortfall
Glancing at TPC's chart, everything else listed is inconsequential beside the -2.74 trillion from the Bush tax cuts, -672 billion from indexing the AMT for inflation and -264 billion from making the 2009 estate tax levels permanent. The TPC report seems to be an argument for letting the entire Bush tax cuts expire (though clearly that's politically unpalatable), and also perhaps an argument as to how irresponsible politicians advocating for keeping them unchanged/permanent are. I'd love to see the massive projected shortfalls of some of the other popular GOP tax proposals included as well (repealing the estate tax; repealing the capital gains and dividend tax; lowering the corporate tax rate from 35% to 25%; etc).
408 | darthstar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:07:19am |
re: #369 Obdicut
Ishmael is a Hebrew name, so that joke is a little strange.
And all this time I thought it was Puerto Rican.
/
409 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:07:26am |
re: #401 drcordell
Also, each faith explicitly acknowledges its predecessor, and assigns value to it.
They *are* different in a huge number of ways, but all really do claim to worship the same deity.
410 | ShaunP Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:07:27am |
re: #394 Cato the Elder
Strong enough to wrestle with an angel.
It could be argued that Jacob was wrestling with God in that story, but nice tie back... :)
411 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:08:12am |
re: #401 drcordell
You could go on, but you would only further demonstrate your ignorance with regard to the topic at hand. You simply can't see past the fact that over the course of several thousand years, three faiths that originated from the worship of the same God have managed to establish contrasting tenets.
You keep speaking of theology this, theology that, but all you mention are the practical differences between Islam, Judaism and Christianity. We are talking about the fundamental origins of each faith as described in their own holy texts. Practices in modern worship are completely irrelevant.
Sez you.
412 | Walter L. Newton Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:08:20am |
re: #401 drcordell
You could go on, but you would only further demonstrate your ignorance with regard to the topic at hand. You simply can't see past the fact that over the course of several thousand years, three faiths that originated from the worship of the same God have managed to establish contrasting tenets.
You keep speaking of theology this, theology that, but all you mention are the practical differences between Islam, Judaism and Christianity. We are talking about the fundamental origins of each faith as described in their own holy texts. Practices in modern worship are completely irrelevant.
And you can't see the fact that three groups of worshipers and a bunch of wannabees have created the world three greatest fairy tales.
413 | McSpiff Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:08:25am |
re: #380 Guanxi88
Yes, Islam claims to perfect faults in Christianity, and Christianity claims to perfect faults in Judaism.
I guess it depends how you choose to look at it. My use of arrows was very deliberate in a previous post, as you can only go in one direction. Judaism doesn't not acknowledge Christianity as bringing anything to the table. Nor does Christianity acknowledge Islam. But in each case the religious leaders of each religion have stated they are continuing the same vein. So for the programmers in the house, I guess it depends if the class God has been declared final or not. Each religion states it has, and the next one claims it hasn't.
414 | Spare O'Lake Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:08:30am |
re: #392 windsagio
actually, its fun to see how she's managed to modify behavior once people started to call her on it. Its always good to see change for the better :)
Get over it, loser.
415 | Jeff In Ohio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:08:37am |
re: #376 cliffster
If the three of them all see a sparrow, and one of them goes back home and describes an ostrich, he is describing a different bird.
Um, ok. I guess that makes sense....
re: #377 jaunte
I'm pretty sure this is a category error. The concept of a God is an internal idea, but a bird has a separate existence apart from humans.
I'm not a a believer, but are you saying the believers don't believe that their god exists outside themselves and that god for believers is an internal construct?
416 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:08:42am |
re: #406 Cannadian Club Akbar
You should bet for whatever side you're on, because that's the one that'll win
(well to you anyways)
417 | Obdicut Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:08:51am |
re: #394 Cato the Elder
I'd like to recommend my friend Robert Alter's book to you: [Link: www.amazon.com...]
It's really, really wonderful.
418 | Walter L. Newton Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:08:53am |
re: #406 Cannadian Club Akbar
As far as religious debate here goes, I'm putting my money on the Atheist. Heh.
Who, little old me?
419 | cliffster Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:08:59am |
re: #377 jaunte
I'm pretty sure this is a category error. The concept of a God is an internal idea, but a bird has a separate existence apart from humans.
Well, one would have to decide whether to make that assumption, or the opposite, the basis for discussion before the conversation makes sense.
420 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:09:38am |
re: #417 Obdicut
I'd like to recommend my friend Robert Alter's book to you: [Link: www.amazon.com...]
It's really, really wonderful.
You know him? I own it.
421 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:09:53am |
re: #416 windsagio
You should bet for whatever side you're on, because that's the one that'll win
(well to you anyways)
You missed the point.
422 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:10:21am |
re: #421 Cannadian Club Akbar
probably :p
what was it? I just got off work so I"m a little woozie >>
423 | Killgore Trout Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:10:48am |
Banks Apply Pressure to Keep Fees Rolling In
As the government cracks down on the way banks charge fees for overspending on debit cards, the industry is mounting an aggressive campaign aimed at keeping billions of dollars in penalty income flowing into its coffers. Chase and other banks are preparing a full-court marketing blitz, which is likely to include filling mailboxes with various aggressive and persuasive letters, calling account holders directly, and sending a steady stream of e-mail to urge consumers to keep their overdraft service turned on.
Cut up you credit cards. Don't feed the beast!
424 | Walter L. Newton Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:10:51am |
re: #422 windsagio
probably :p
what was it? I just got off work so I"m a little woozie >>
You seem normal to me.
425 | jaunte Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:11:02am |
re: #415 Jeff In Ohio
I'm not a a believer, but are you saying the believers don't believe that their god exists outside themselves and that god for believers is an internal construct?
I'm saying that unlike a bird,(unless the bird and the rest of the universe is taken as proof) there is no way to prove that the belief is not an internal construct. So the bird and the God are different classes of idea.
426 | Obdicut Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:11:19am |
re: #420 Cato the Elder
I've known him since I was a kid-- family friend. He's an absolutely wonderful man, as well as being very wise. What do you think of the book?
His nickname is Uri, for some random trivia.
427 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:11:22am |
re: #424 Walter L. Newton
I'm honored that I ever would seem normal to anybody ;)
428 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:11:24am |
re: #401 drcordell
You keep speaking of theology this, theology that, but all you mention are the practical differences between Islam, Judaism and Christianity. We are talking about the fundamental origins of each faith as described in their own holy texts. Practices in modern worship are completely irrelevant.
That is the most nonsensical statement of the day, so far.
429 | Guanxi88 Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:11:29am |
re: #401 drcordell
You simply can't see past the fact that over the course of several thousand years, three faiths that originated from the worship of the same God have managed to establish contrasting tenets.
Judaism, in one form or another, is the Ur-faith, with the Ur-texts, for Christianity and Islam.
The three faiths are not based on anything like the same conception of Divinity, the same experience of Divinity, or the same set of stories regarding the interactions of the Divine with Mankind.
Want proof? Why would there be Hebrew scriptures, Christian scriptures, and Muslim scriptures, if they're all talking about the same thing? Makes no sense at all, unless the three are, as they appear, different.
Consider this, too: Christianity appears to suggest an unfolding historical nature of the relationship between Humanity and the Divine, culminating in the life, death, resurrection, and ascent of Jesus. Christian scripture always points back to Hebrew scripture to provide prophetic support for its narrative.
Islam, by contrast, claims to be the original religion of mankind, distorted and corrupted over time by Jews and Christians alike. Certainly from a Muslim perspective, there's little commonality with the two corrupted and corrupting false religions.
430 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:11:44am |
re: #422 windsagio
probably :p
what was it? I just got off work so I"m a little woozie >>
Walter probably knows more about religion than most and he's an Atheist. I was putting money on the debate. Not who I agree with.
431 | Vicious Babushka Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:11:47am |
Good morning Lizardia!
I thought I would get an early start on spring cleaning. Yesterday I started on the back bedrooms, where my kids will be staying when they come for the holidays. I thought to myself, how hard can it be, nobody sleeps here, and all I need to do is change the linen and vacuum the floor.
Then as I was stripping the bed, a big chunk of stale bread tumbled out (from when the grandkids were here for Hanukkah). Gah.
Then I tackled my office closet, and found a bunch of computer equipment including 3 defunct CPU's, 1 CRT monitor, 3 printers (2 inkjet, 1 laser), 1 flatbed scanner, a giant spaghetti ball of cables and 4 keyboards (2 brand new in the packaging)
432 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:12:29am |
re: #430 Cannadian Club Akbar
debates with Atheists always end the same way.
Theres simply no there there.
433 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:12:33am |
re: #426 Obdicut
I've known him since I was a kid-- family friend. He's an absolutely wonderful man, as well as being very wise. What do you think of the book?
His nickname is Uri, for some random trivia.
I haven't had it long enough to get into it, but you just put it at the top of my list.
Perhaps I'll ask you for his email if I run into difficulties. ;^)
434 | Obdicut Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:13:48am |
re: #429 Guanxi88
Well, except that Judaism itself was an amalgamation of some disparate faiths as well.
Calling it the "Ur-faith" is especially confusing given that Ur was Sumerian, and predates Judaism-- as does their religion.
435 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:14:14am |
re: #432 windsagio
*I should add that thats no insult to people on either side, it just comes down to the same 3 or 4 old arguments, and always down to exposition.
436 | Walter L. Newton Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:14:24am |
re: #430 Cannadian Club Akbar
Walter probably knows more about religion than most and he's an Atheist. I was putting money on the debate. Not who I agree with.
Well, it seems that Dr. Cordell doesn't want to engage me on the subject, since he has not address my comments to him.
437 | Obdicut Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:15:06am |
re: #433 Cato the Elder
Please do. I think he might possibly-- just possibly, stressing that-- be interested in someone doing a German translation of his commentaries. After you read it, let me know if that's a project you think you'd be suitable for and interested in, and I could float the idea with him.
My email is just my name here at gmail.
438 | McSpiff Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:15:07am |
re: #429 Guanxi88
Could you clarify how deep these divisions go? Would you argue that the evangelicals worship a different god than the Roman Catholic Church since the later also includes saints? If differences in theology make for different gods, then why even have a concept of Christianity?
439 | lawhawk Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:15:20am |
re: #407 simoom
Glancing at TPC's chart, everything else listed is inconsequential beside the -2.74 trillion from the Bush tax cuts, -672 billion from indexing the AMT for inflation and -264 billion from making the 2009 estate tax levels permanent. The TPC report seems to be an argument for letting the entire Bush tax cuts expire (though clearly that's politically unpalatable), and also perhaps an argument as to how irresponsible politicians advocating for keeping them unchanged/permanent are. I'd love to see the massive projected shortfalls of some of the other popular GOP tax proposals included as well (repealing the estate tax; repealing the capital gains and dividend tax; lowering the corporate tax rate from 35% to 25%; etc).
Mind you that the Bush tax cuts are seen as a loss in revenue - as is the AMT adjustment, rather than keeping more money in the pockets of taxpayers who can choose to save the money or spend it as they see fit. Those numbers merely review tax adjustments in a vacuum: it does so without addressing the other side of the equation that spending out of control on programs results in deficits. For example, Bush enacted Medicare Part D, which resulted in a massive increase in spending that will continue well into the future. Total cost of that program through 2018 is $720 billion+. Deficits can be closed by curbing spending in combination with an appropriate tax policy, but trying to pursue tax hikes without spending cuts and you'll continue deficits as far as the eye can see.
440 | Walter L. Newton Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:15:46am |
re: #432 windsagio
debates with Atheists always end the same way.
Theres simply no there there.
No... I can discuss YOUR beliefs better than most people that hold your beliefs. Of course there is something their, your belief. Which defies all logic and critical thinking.
441 | Guanxi88 Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:16:36am |
re: #434 Obdicut
Well, except that Judaism itself was an amalgamation of some disparate faiths as well.
Calling it the "Ur-faith" is especially confusing given that Ur was Sumerian, and predates Judaism-- as does their religion.
"Ur-" as a prefix, is commonly used to dsesignate the original or foundational member in a series or set.
I am not suggesting that Judaism was the faith of Ur of the Chaldees - although one man from there did play a large role in its history.
Judaism is an amalgamation of disparate faiths? Not according to Christianity or Islam, and so, for the purposes of the current discussion, largely irrelevant, even if true.
442 | Jeff In Ohio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:16:51am |
Gosh, I feel sorry for the monotheists. This is worse then Coke or Pepsi and there's hardly any sugar and no caffeine.
443 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:17:06am |
444 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:17:15am |
re: #437 Obdicut
Please do. I think he might possibly-- just possibly, stressing that-- be interested in someone doing a German translation of his commentaries. After you read it, let me know if that's a project you think you'd be suitable for and interested in, and I could float the idea with him.
My email is just my name here at gmail.
Ask him if he is familiar with the book "The Star of Redemption" by Franz Rosenzweig.
445 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:17:43am |
re: #442 Jeff In Ohio
I think its interesting myself. The interrelation of the faiths and how they've developed is simply fascinating.
446 | Guanxi88 Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:17:47am |
re: #438 McSpiff
Could you clarify how deep these divisions go? Would you argue that the evangelicals worship a different god than the Roman Catholic Church since the later also includes saints? If differences in theology make for different gods, then why even have a concept of Christianity?
Splits within a faith are different - all refer to the same texts, the same teachings - all claim heterodoxy, and accuse the others - recognized not as members of another religion, but as erring co-religionists - of misunderstanding their own faith.
447 | Walter L. Newton Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:18:04am |
re: #438 McSpiff
Could you clarify how deep these divisions go? Would you argue that the evangelicals worship a different god than the Roman Catholic Church since the later also includes saints? If differences in theology make for different gods, then why even have a concept of Christianity?
No Catholic theologian would say that Catholic "worship" the "saints. Where did you get that? The pray to saints as intercessors between themselves and G-d, in belief that the saint has a special place in the hierarchy of heaven, has a better "in" to G-d.
448 | lawhawk Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:18:08am |
re: #376 cliffster
If the three of them all see a sparrow, and one of them goes back home and describes an ostrich, he is describing a different bird.
But is it an African swallow? European? Laden? Unladen? /
449 | Jeff In Ohio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:18:15am |
re: #443 windsagio
Man, I'm getting a hell of a lot of use out of that.
Gee, I just remembered I need to call my mom. Thanks for the reminder.
450 | Donna Ballard Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:18:44am |
451 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:18:45am |
re: #446 Guanxi88
Not entirely, at least for a while it was very hip in evangelical circles to say that Catholics and Orthodox Christians weren't Christian at all, but rather idolators.
452 | Spare O'Lake Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:18:56am |
re: #436 Walter L. Newton
Well, it seems that Dr. Cordell doesn't want to engage me on the subject, since he has not address my comments to him.
The quack was, in my view, interested more in driving a wedge between lizards than in engaging in an honest theological discussion.
FWIW, Walter.
453 | Jeff In Ohio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:19:18am |
re: #445 windsagio
I think its interesting myself. The interrelation of the faiths and how they've developed is simply fascinating.
I suppose. Personally I'd rather watch birds, marvel at a patch of thyme emerging fragrant after being under 2 feet of snow and smoke weed. But that's me.
454 | Walter L. Newton Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:19:44am |
re: #443 windsagio
Man, I'm getting a hell of a lot of use out of that.
Deflection started already... honestly, you won't and can't shut down my discussions or comments, and linking to this study of that study only wastes YOUR TIME.
Yawn.
455 | Guanxi88 Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:20:06am |
re: #451 windsagio
Not entirely, at least for a while it was very hip in evangelical circles to say that Catholics and Orthodox Christians weren't Christian at all, but rather idolators.
I'd expect nothing less from those ranting dunkards and false prophets of Moloch!
/////
456 | Jadespring Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:20:08am |
re: #369 Obdicut
re: #372 lawhawk
Here's one stat which was what I was referring to when I said more likely.
'Intimate partner violence affects people regardless of income. However, people with lower annual income (below $25K) are at a 3-times higher risk of intimate partner violence than people with higher annual income (over $50K)'
It comes from the Bureau of Justice Statistics. 'Intimate Partner Violence in US. Been trying to find the original source document for you for a link but my dial up is really slow and navigating their site right now is like swimming in mud.
457 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:20:11am |
re: #453 Jeff In Ohio
Thats fun too, everything for its own time.
I bet smoking weed (or maybe doing something harder, no stimulants) and discussing religion would be simply amazing!
458 | Jeff In Ohio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:20:36am |
459 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:20:58am |
re: #457 windsagio
Thats fun too, everything for its own time.
I bet smoking weed (or maybe doing something harder, no stimulants) and discussing religion would be simply amazing!
Hash or Acid?
460 | Walter L. Newton Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:21:15am |
re: #452 Spare O'Lake
The quack was, in my view, interested more in driving a wedge between lizards than in engaging in an honest theological discussion.
FWIW, Walter.
That seems to be a new "meme" around here. And very transparent. And silly. And laughable. I know I do a lot of laughing on this end.
461 | Obdicut Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:21:20am |
re: #441 Guanxi88
"Ur-" as a prefix, is commonly used to dsesignate the original or foundational member in a series or set.
When you're talking about ancient times, using 'Ur' is probably not a good idea.
Judaism is an amalgamation of disparate faiths? Not according to Christianity or Islam, and so, for the purposes of the current discussion, largely irrelevant, even if true.
I'm sorry, but that makes no sense. Why on earth is it irrelevant to your claim that it's the starting point for these faiths if it is not, in fact, the starting point?
It's a relatively arbitrary place to put your thumb down and say "it started here".
And aside from believing that Judaism was directly divinely inspired-- a belief shared by every other religion-- it definitely was an amalgam of faiths, as seen by the editing and the progression of the monotheistic tenets inside it.
462 | Donna Ballard Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:21:36am |
Good Morning Everyone! Happy Tuesday to you all! Gorgeous picture up this morning Charles, if your music matches your photography you must be one hell of a musician! :-)
463 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:21:45am |
re: #459 Cannadian Club Akbar
I'd imagine either would be fun in its own way.
My only experiments with drugs have ended in bitter failure, so I don't really know >>
464 | Guanxi88 Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:22:06am |
re: #457 windsagio
Thats fun too, everything for its own time.
I bet smoking weed (or maybe doing something harder, no stimulants) and discussing religion would be simply amazing!
Stoned conversations always seem great and profound at the time, but they're not. I recorded one of our hash-enhanced discussions of the Laws and, on playback, was appalled at the pointless nonsense we engaged in.
A sharp mind is needed for this work.
465 | oldegeezr Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:22:07am |
The Gov. gets it does anyone else...?
Schwarzenegger breaks with GOP on health care, stimulus for second day in a row…
”just bogus talk…!”
Doesn’t surprise me; Anthem Blue Cross of Callyforneeah just raised their premiums for some individuals by 39 percent…believe it!
Public option, fore this olde geezer...!
466 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:22:17am |
re: #463 windsagio
I'd imagine either would be fun in its own way.
My only experiments with drugs have ended in bitter failure, so I don't really know >>
You need better dealers.
///
467 | Obdicut Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:22:19am |
re: #456 Jadespring
I'd also caution that reporting tends to differ between income classes; I've seen statistics saying that the higher your income level, the less likely domestic abuse is to be reported.
Private crimes are always the hardest to get good data on.
468 | Walter L. Newton Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:22:26am |
re: #457 windsagio
Thats fun too, everything for its own time.
I bet smoking weed (or maybe doing something harder, no stimulants) and discussing religion would be simply amazing!
So 60's. Wow... you haven't even left the pupa stage yet.
469 | McSpiff Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:22:55am |
re: #446 Guanxi88
Splits within a faith are different - all refer to the same texts, the same teachings - all claim heterodoxy, and accuse the others - recognized not as members of another religion, but as erring co-religionists - of misunderstanding their own faith.
If you honestly believe this, you really have no understanding of Christianity. I've already pointed out a fundamental difference of teachings, one that specifically addresses your point of:
The three faiths are not based on anything like the same conception of Divinity, the same experience of Divinity, or the same set of stories regarding the interactions of the Divine with Mankind.
The issue of Saints fundamentally alters the nature of the Divine, how mankind experiences the Divine and the nature of the texts. The fact that sacraments do not transfer between branches of Christianity, and in general the treatment of the Catholic faith by other christian denominations meets the criteria you have layed out for separate Gods.
The only reason we accept this creature called Christianity is because each sect says they worship the same God. Which is exactly what occurs in Islam and Judaism.
470 | Political Atheist Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:23:00am |
re: #462 Dragon_Lady
Tough shot straight up sun like that. I wonder if he used his G40. Not many people put a filter on anything less than an SLR.
471 | Jeff In Ohio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:23:08am |
472 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:23:18am |
re: #461 Obdicut
I think his point is that Christianity also believes that Judaism was divinely inspired. And Islam recognizes Jewish and Christian prophets.
They're certainly claiming to worship the same god. If they actually are can be debated :P
473 | albusteve Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:23:31am |
The South Carolina senator said that in a series of meetings and phone calls over the last “several weeks,” he has pressed to establish a new national security court that would keep most Guantanamo detainees out of the federal courthouse.
interesting, fabricate a new court?....these nutter are bending themselves into pretzels trying to find a solution to a problem that doesn't exist
[Link: blogs.wsj.com...]
475 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:23:54am |
476 | Guanxi88 Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:23:55am |
re: #461 Obdicut
I'm sorry, but that makes no sense. Why on earth is it irrelevant to your claim that it's the starting point for these faiths if it is not, in fact, the starting point?
It's a relatively arbitrary place to put your thumb down and say "it started here".
And aside from believing that Judaism was directly divinely inspired-- a belief shared by every other religion-- it definitely was an amalgam of faiths, as seen by the editing and the progression of the monotheistic tenets inside it.
It's not my fault you might be confused by the use of a fairly common lit-crit term in the context of a discussion of written revelations and the faiths that are ordered around them.
As for putting down my thumb - Christianity and Islam look no further back than to the beginning of Hebrew scripture. Lecture Christian prophets and Mohammed about where they put their thumbs.
477 | Obdicut Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:24:09am |
re: #469 McSpiff
Many evangelicals and charismatic-style Christian sects explicitly reject the Christianity of Catholics.
478 | Donna Ballard Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:24:14am |
re: #448 lawhawk
But is it an African swallow? European? Laden? Unladen? /
Its all a matter of perspective my dear. I say tomahto, you say tomaato...
479 | Jeff In Ohio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:24:16am |
re: #464 Guanxi88
Stoned conversations always seem great and profound at the time, but they're not. I recorded one of our hash-enhanced discussions of the Laws and, on playback, was appalled at the pointless nonsense we engaged in.
A sharp mind is needed for this work.
Yes, those times are best spent playing games, watching The Dude or ignoring all the bullshit and studying the inside of ones eyelids.
480 | Political Atheist Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:24:17am |
re: #465 oldegeezr
They also got called out this morning on 700 violations, by the State.
481 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:24:43am |
re: #464 Guanxi88
I'm not saying it would be meaningful, I'm saying it would be fun!
The illusion of deep thought is more satisfying than real deep thought anyways :p
482 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:24:44am |
re: #451 windsagio
Not entirely, at least for a while it was very hip in evangelical circles to say that Catholics and Orthodox Christians weren't Christian at all, but rather idolators.
Still is.
483 | albusteve Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:24:51am |
re: #457 windsagio
Thats fun too, everything for its own time.
I bet smoking weed (or maybe doing something harder, no stimulants) and discussing religion would be simply amazing!
what's harder than weed?....wth are you talking about?
484 | RogueOne Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:25:05am |
re: #360 McSpiff
I wouldn't say its worse. Mandy for one has really toned down the attacks lately. I find myself updinging or posting in agreement with her often now.
I tend to stay out of the excessive squabbling sections but for the most part I haven't felt unnecessarily beat up on. I don't think a disagreement over issues isn't an attack. As a matter-of-fact there is only one or two people that come to mind when I think of being overly aggressive and abusive.
486 | Political Atheist Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:25:39am |
re: #472 windsagio
"fellow sons of Abraham" is the descriptive phrase I have heard .
487 | Donna Ballard Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:25:39am |
re: #470 Rightwingconspirator
Tough shot straight up sun like that. I wonder if he used his G40. Not many people put a filter on anything less than an SLR.
Such the camera geek... you would be wondering such things, I shoulda known...
488 | SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:26:15am |
re: #157 thedopefishlives
I mean people who think the government is obligated to give them jobs because they're black. Black nationalists are the most common types of people to fall into this category.
How many black nationalists are there? Honestly?
489 | Killgore Trout Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:26:16am |
re: #465 oldegeezr
Doesn’t surprise me; Anthem Blue Cross of Callyforneeah just raised their premiums for some individuals by 39 percent…believe it!
Public option, fore this olde geezer...!
My insurance premiums here in Oregon jumped over 30% a few months ago. I really hope somebody does something about this soon.
490 | albusteve Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:26:23am |
re: #464 Guanxi88
Stoned conversations always seem great and profound at the time, but they're not. I recorded one of our hash-enhanced discussions of the Laws and, on playback, was appalled at the pointless nonsense we engaged in.
A sharp mind is needed for this work.
defining God?
491 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:26:23am |
re: #482 Cato the Elder
I've kind of lost touch with that part of the Church, so I don't really follow. It was a big deal when I was growing up tho'.
I had some serious prejudices against Catholics I had to overcome as an adult.
492 | McSpiff Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:26:32am |
re: #447 Walter L. Newton
No Catholic theologian would say that Catholic "worship" the "saints. Where did you get that? The pray to saints as intercessors between themselves and G-d, in belief that the saint has a special place in the hierarchy of heaven, has a better "in" to G-d.
They aren't worshiped at all, but they alter the fundamental nature of the Divinity. I.E Saints being assigned responsibility for miracles.
493 | keloyd Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:26:42am |
Is there a single Muslim who reads or contributes to this blog?
Certain people hatin on Islam today will look indistinguishable from our great-grandparents when they were hatin on the blacks. Do you get your Islam knowledge from non-Muslim websites exclusively? For the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, do you think Israeli sites tell you the whole story? Judging the whole by the actions of its fringe, shaky scholarship viz their religion, talking about them when there's not a single representative of that group present, all this just might come back and bite us in the arse.
Also, putting all this blogging aside, we all know there is either no such thing as a deity, or the 3 Western religions of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all clearly state in their religious texts that they worship the same god. Anything beyond this clear fact is just bloggers blowing off steam.
494 | SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:26:48am |
re: #159 Cannadian Club Akbar
Regardless your thoughts on Clarence Thomas, I think comparing him to Idi Amin and Robert Mugabe shows complete ignorance.
To the best of my knowledge, Clarence Thomas has never killed and eaten his enemies.
/
495 | Guanxi88 Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:26:50am |
re: #461 Obdicut
And aside from believing that Judaism was directly divinely inspired-- a belief shared by every other religion-- it definitely was an amalgam of faiths, as seen by the editing and the progression of the monotheistic tenets inside it.
There is no progression of montheistic tenets within Hebrew scripture, no sound textual basis for concluding it. If you are to interpret the text, you must accept it on its own terms, and, on its own terms, it is not a progressive unfolding of an understanding of the Divine. If you attempt to smuggle in the supposedly superior perspective of lit-crit, you immediately treat the work as if it were a collection of things written like any other work is written, and the Hebrew scriptures are quite clearly and obviously not of this character.
496 | RogueOne Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:27:02am |
re: #484 RogueOne
I just realized how far behind I am in this thread. Work is pissing me off and keeping me from doing much more constructive things with my time.
497 | Obdicut Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:27:42am |
re: #476 Guanxi88
It's not my fault you might be confused by the use of a fairly common lit-crit term in the context of a discussion of written revelations and the faiths that are ordered around them.
My point is that not all terms should be used in all subjects. Since we're talking about ancient religions and their origins, "Ur" actually has meaning in that context that is primary above the lit-crit meaning-- especially since Ur shows up in 'Old Testament'.
As for putting down my thumb - Christianity and Islam look no further back than to the beginning of Hebrew scripture. Lecture Christian prophets and Mohammed about where they put their thumbs.
Which is fine as long as you're looking at the history of the faiths as the faiths themselves document, but not if you're looking at the actual history of the faiths.
498 | Guanxi88 Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:28:06am |
re: #488 SanFranciscoZionist
How many black nationalists are there? Honestly?
Maybe 80, at any one time?
499 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:28:20am |
re: #494 SanFranciscoZionist
To the best of my knowledge, Clarence Thomas has never killed and eaten his enemies.
/
Can you prove he didn't eat them? Hmm? Hmm?
///
500 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:28:45am |
re: #493 keloyd
Is there a single Muslim who reads or contributes to this blog?
Certain people hatin on Islam today will look indistinguishable from our great-grandparents when they were hatin on the blacks. Do you get your Islam knowledge from non-Muslim websites exclusively? For the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, do you think Israeli sites tell you the whole story? Judging the whole by the actions of its fringe, shaky scholarship viz their religion, talking about them when there's not a single representative of that group present, all this just might come back and bite us in the arse.
quoted the part that bears repeating :p
/the other part is just Proselytisation :p
501 | Killgore Trout Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:29:20am |
Boehner: Obama's Health Care Proposal Is Too Short
"The White House's 'plan' consists of an 11-page outline, which has not been scored by the Congressional Budget Office or posted online as legislative text. So they want to reorganize one-sixth of the United States' economy with a document shorter than a comic book, and they're complaining that they can't find our plan on their own website? C'mon," said the spokesman, Michael Steel, in an email to reporters.
Boehner and other Republicans have attacked the Democrats' health care bills in both the House and the Senate for being too long.
lol
502 | Donna Ballard Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:29:20am |
re: #496 RogueOne
I just realized how far behind I am in this thread. Work is pissing me off and keeping me from doing much more constructive things with my time.
You are not alone... I'm trying to keep up but it keeps jumping around. Such is life on the blogs I guess...
503 | Obdicut Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:29:23am |
re: #495 Guanxi88
I'm sorry, are you really arguing that the Hebrew scriptures are quite clearly divinely inspired? I can't quite parse what you said.
504 | Guanxi88 Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:29:47am |
re: #497 Obdicut
Which is fine as long as you're looking at the history of the faiths as the faiths themselves document, but not if you're looking at the actual history of the faiths.
You can never begin to approach the subject if you assume, at the outset, to possess a body of knowledge that supersedes or completes the scriptures; again, you make the mistake of treating it like it's a normal human literary production.
The same goes for ALL scripture, by the way - I extend this courtesy to the texts of Christianity and Islam - they are qualitatively OTHER.
505 | Obdicut Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:30:14am |
re: #501 Killgore Trout
It's the Goldilocks approach to government.
506 | McSpiff Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:30:55am |
re: #495 Guanxi88
There is no progression of montheistic tenets within Hebrew scripture, no sound textual basis for concluding it. If you are to interpret the text, you must accept it on its own terms, and, on its own terms, it is not a progressive unfolding of an understanding of the Divine. If you attempt to smuggle in the supposedly superior perspective of lit-crit, you immediately treat the work as if it were a collection of things written like any other work is written, and the Hebrew scriptures are quite clearly and obviously not of this character.
As an atheist, that's quite clearly what they are to me. Stuff, written by people. From my limited understanding, written by multiple people. Could you cite a non-religious source discussing this 'other character'?
507 | Guanxi88 Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:31:00am |
re: #503 Obdicut
I'm sorry, are you really arguing that the Hebrew scriptures are quite clearly divinely inspired? I can't quite parse what you said.
That is how the present themselves, that is how they are understood and used by the community that is constituted by them, and that is how they are to be approached if they are to be interpreted correctly.
508 | albusteve Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:31:05am |
re: #496 RogueOne
I just realized how far behind I am in this thread. Work is pissing me off and keeping me from doing much more constructive things with my time.
you are paid to blog, and complaining about it?
509 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:31:15am |
re: #504 Guanxi88
so are you arguing essentially that its disrespectful of others faiths to analyze the texts in that way?
510 | Guanxi88 Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:32:19am |
re: #506 McSpiff
As an atheist, that's quite clearly what they are to me. Stuff, written by people. From my limited understanding, written by multiple people. Could you cite a non-religious source discussing this 'other character'?
Well, by definition, there'd be very few non-religious types to approach these texts this way.
However, I am aware that Leo Strauss did quite a bit of work in this regard, and would recommend "Persecution and the Art of Writing" as a good intro to his take on these and related matters.
511 | keloyd Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:32:22am |
re: #477 Obdicut
Many evangelicals and charismatic-style Christian sects explicitly reject the Christianity of Catholics.
Catholics were not allowed in the abolishionist movement for approximately this reason. As long as they were 'slaves' of the pope, how could they understand that slavery is wrong? I also got my hands on some juicy mid-19th C. books that focused their propaganda on the monastic thing. Turns out monks were all sex crazed perverts and the nuns were all simultaneously either whores or kidnapped victims who couldn't get away, depending on which writer was indulging which fantasy as he wrote about the Catholics' wickedness.
512 | The Sanity Inspector Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:32:33am |
Morning hippie music...
513 | Guanxi88 Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:32:54am |
re: #509 windsagio
so are you arguing essentially that its disrespectful of others faiths to analyze the texts in that way?
Eh, respect doesn't concern or affect me or the texts. my concern is to try to tease the meanings out of them.
514 | lawhawk Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:33:12am |
re: #467 Obdicut
And domestic violence against men is also underreported .
515 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:33:45am |
re: #513 Guanxi88
fair enough. Meaning in general gets kinda foggy in these discussions ;)
516 | NJDhockeyfan Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:34:29am |
President Obama presented a new health care plan on Monday that calls for raising the Medicare payroll tax on some households earning less than $250,000, an apparent breach of his campaign pledge not to raise taxes on families earning less than that amount. The president’s plan also calls for increasing taxes on interest, dividends, annuities, royalties and rents.
In a Sept. 12, 2008 campaign speech in Dover, N.H, Obama said: “And I can make a firm pledge: Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 will see their taxes increase—not your income taxes, not your payroll taxes, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes.”
But the new health care plan released in summary form yesterday by the White House specifically calls for increasing the Medicare payroll tax on “households with incomes exceeding $200,000 for singles and $250,000 for married couples filing jointly.”
Surprise!
517 | Walter L. Newton Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:34:37am |
re: #503 Obdicut
I'm sorry, are you really arguing that the Hebrew scriptures are quite clearly divinely inspired? I can't quite parse what you said.
The Hebrew scriptures are a collection of writings and verbal histories that contain some history, much pseudo-history, borrowed mystical stories from other cultures, political chatter, religious stories, all written and collected by men.
There is nothing divine about them.
518 | Guanxi88 Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:34:39am |
re: #515 windsagio
fair enough. Meaning in general gets kinda foggy in these discussions ;)
Yeah - here's my general take on it, by the way:
Who the F*ck knows? I'm dancing with the one who brung me, and hoping for the best.
519 | Obdicut Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:35:17am |
re: #507 Guanxi88
Well, that's just silly. They exist as texts no matter what else they are. They are perfectly open to textual analysis as well as theological analysis.
I like the Bible. I get a great deal from reading it. The Book of Job is one of the greatest literary achievements of all time, and one of the most poignant stories about fate and humanity.
You seem to be claiming the only possible analysis of religious texts is by the faithful of those texts. Does this mean that anyone commenting on what's contained inside the Koran who is not a faithful Muslim cannot possibly have a correct interpretation?
Or do you just need to be some form of theist to comment on religious texts meaningfully?
520 | Political Atheist Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:35:50am |
re: #516 NJDhockeyfan
Bait & Switch again. ODS suspicions in 3.. 2..
521 | Obdicut Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:36:16am |
re: #514 lawhawk
As someone stabbed by an ex-wife, I'm not surprised.
522 | oldegeezr Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:36:46am |
re: #480 Rightwingconspirator
My dear, “she who must be obeyed” is employed by a medical clinic. She must deal with the arrogance and hubris of the medical insurance empire on a daily basis...
You can only imagine her animus.
523 | Mad Al-Jaffee Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:36:53am |
I can't let a religion discussion go by without posting my favorite nun joke:
Two nuns are on vacation in Transylvania. Despite all the warnings to the contrary, they've stayed out after dark. Sure enough, as they're driving along, a vampire flies out of the night and lands on their windshield, hissing and baring his horrible bloody fangs.
"Dear Lord! What shall we do?" cries the first nun.
"Turn on the windshield wipers. Maybe that will break his grip," answers the second nun.
No luck. Now the vampire is wet and angry. He claws at the windshield.
"Now what shall we do?" yells the first nun, getting even more scared.
"Weave the car back and forth. Maybe he'll fall off," says the second nun.
No luck. The vampire is beating on the glass now, and it's starting to crack.
"NOW WHAT!?!?!" cries the first nun.
The second nun tries to remember how to get rid of vampires. She has a sudden flash of insight. "Show him your cross!" she yells, triumphantly.
The second nun sticks her head out the window and yells, "Get off my car, you foul little vampire before I smack you with a ruler!" baringwipers
524 | albusteve Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:37:04am |
re: #514 lawhawk
And domestic violence against men is also underreported .
I was a victim of domestic financial violence...twice...they don't even have a folder for that one
525 | Vicious Babushka Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:37:04am |
Interesting history of religions discussion this morning. Carry on.
526 | McSpiff Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:37:06am |
re: #510 Guanxi88
Well, by definition, there'd be very few non-religious types to approach these texts this way.
However, I am aware that Leo Strauss did quite a bit of work in this regard, and would recommend "Persecution and the Art of Writing" as a good intro to his take on these and related matters.
Added to the reading list, thanks. Reading the description of it, I think I have a better idea of what you're trying to get across. Since the faith adds meaning to otherwise contractiory texts, you need to understand the faith to understand the meaning?
527 | Donna Ballard Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:37:14am |
Gaze. Gaze. Gaze. My eyes have glazed over. Gaze. Gaze. Gaze.
528 | Walter L. Newton Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:37:16am |
re: #519 Obdicut
Well, that's just silly. They exist as texts no matter what else they are. They are perfectly open to textual analysis as well as theological analysis.
I like the Bible. I get a great deal from reading it. The Book of Job is one of the greatest literary achievements of all time, and one of the most poignant stories about fate and humanity.
You seem to be claiming the only possible analysis of religious texts is by the faithful of those texts. Does this mean that anyone commenting on what's contained inside the Koran who is not a faithful Muslim cannot possibly have a correct interpretation?
Or do you just need to be some form of theist to comment on religious texts meaningfully?
Oops... I just picked up on what you and Guanxi88 have been talking about and I have to agree with you almost 100 percent in regards to you statement above.
529 | Stonemason Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:37:54am |
re: #516 NJDhockeyfan
The president’s plan also calls for increasing taxes on interest, dividends, annuities, royalties and rents
and since most people who rent will pay this tax, and most people who rent make less than, heck, even $100,000 ( I would venture a guess that most renters are lower than $50,000) this taxes the middle and lower classes...
530 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:38:05am |
re: #522 oldegeezr
I just reread "She", so + for the reference :D
531 | reine.de.tout Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:38:24am |
re: #493 keloyd
Is there a single Muslim who reads or contributes to this blog?
Certain people hatin on Islam today will look indistinguishable from our great-grandparents when they were hatin on the blacks. Do you get your Islam knowledge from non-Muslim websites exclusively? For the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, do you think Israeli sites tell you the whole story? Judging the whole by the actions of its fringe, shaky scholarship viz their religion, talking about them when there's not a single representative of that group present, all this just might come back and bite us in the arse.
Also, putting all this blogging aside, we all know there is either no such thing as a deity, or the 3 Western religions of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all clearly state in their religious texts that they worship the same god. Anything beyond this clear fact is just bloggers blowing off steam.
Excuse me.
"Certain people" who don't like those Muslims or the tenets of certain portions of the Islamic world that say the rest of us must be wiped off the face of the earth is actually a reasonable position to take, and you marginalize the plight of blacks in this country when you compare "our" greatgrandparents' treatment of blacks to wariness about Islam.
Secondly, yes, I trust Israel a heckuva lot more than I trust the Islamic world, and for good reason, imo. Israel has not said it wants us wiped off the map. Islamists (note: that is NOT all Muslims, certainly) do want us wiped off the map.
Thirdly, I don't know who this "our greatgrandparents" are, but they are not necessarily mine.
532 | keloyd Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:38:42am |
re: #500 windsagio
quoted the part that bears repeating :p
/the other part is just Proselytisation :p
A good vet(parent) can get the dogs(children) to not even realize they swallows a pill with that big piece of steak(steak). I may try again...
533 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:38:50am |
re: #529 Stonemason
taxes on rents... woudln't that be a tax on Income from rent?
I don' t think it works the other way :p
534 | lawhawk Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:38:55am |
re: #456 Jadespring
Here's the chart and the Bureau of Justice, but it doesn't break out other factors - no cross tabs to see whether other factors are at play.
535 | Guanxi88 Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:38:57am |
re: #519 Obdicut
Well, that's just silly. They exist as texts no matter what else they are. They are perfectly open to textual analysis as well as theological analysis.
I like the Bible. I get a great deal from reading it. The Book of Job is one of the greatest literary achievements of all time, and one of the most poignant stories about fate and humanity.
You seem to be claiming the only possible analysis of religious texts is by the faithful of those texts. Does this mean that anyone commenting on what's contained inside the Koran who is not a faithful Muslim cannot possibly have a correct interpretation?
Or do you just need to be some form of theist to comment on religious texts meaningfully?
If you read the Book of Job as literature, I don't doubt you get a great deal from it, but you certainly do not understand or use it in the way it was understood or used by those whose care made sure it was transmitted through the ages. It's a bit like reading Moby Dick - to bring Melville in again - in order to learn about 19th century seafaring and whaling.
As for the possibility of a person who is not a member of the faith being able to interpret the texts thereof correctly - I do not dispute that it is fully possible. I do dispute, however, that tools and techniques applicable to conventional secular works are of much use in approaching scriptures.
As for requiring that one be a theist to comment on the texts - not a requirement, not by a long-shot. Only a mind open and prepared to approach the text on its own terms.
536 | albusteve Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:39:03am |
537 | Killgore Trout Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:39:38am |
re: #531 reine.de.tout
Thanks, I was hoping someone would address that comment.
538 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:39:50am |
539 | Stonemason Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:40:03am |
re: #520 Rightwingconspirator
do you not see how a tax on rents is an added tax on the rentor
540 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:41:01am |
re: #535 Guanxi88
*trying again*
So you're saying theres a tendency to over look the anthropological element?
541 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:41:26am |
I'm confused. Are people here saying Democrats want to raise some tax on something?
/need I?
542 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:42:00am |
re: #541 Cannadian Club Akbar
I'm confused. Are people here saying Democrats want to raise some tax on something?
/need I?
You know how it is.
People hate fiscal responsibility. Damn thing costs too much money :p
543 | Obdicut Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:42:10am |
re: #535 Guanxi88
I think that your argument is pretty muddled, and can't actually understand what you think the barrier is to me getting a message out of the Book of Job. I can understand Job as a human, I can understand his conception of God, I can understand the events in the context that's given.
I'm reading Job to understand a man wrestling with his faith and his fate. I'm really uncertain what you think I can't get out of it simply because I'm analyzing it as a piece of literature telling that story rather than a divinely inspired record of that story.
544 | Donna Ballard Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:42:19am |
re: #539 Stonemason
do you not see how a tax on rents is an added tax on the rentor
Are you sure their going to be allowed to pass it on to renters? We here in Los Angeles have rent control. They cannot raise our rent but once a year and only by 7% max.
545 | jaunte Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:42:41am |
re: #539 Stonemason
do you not see how a tax on rents is an added tax on the rentor
There is a flaw in the political rhetoric about only increasing taxes for those of a certain specified income.
546 | albusteve Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:43:18am |
re: #544 Dragon_Lady
Are you sure their going to be allowed to pass it on to renters? We here in Los Angeles have rent control. They cannot raise our rent but once a year and only by 7% max.
down with free enterprise!
547 | lawhawk Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:43:27am |
re: #529 Stonemason
It's the income from rentals. It goes to what the landlord will be able to deduct; losses if they occur. Renters might see their rents increase based on what the landlord's tax situation is, but that's not a given.
548 | McSpiff Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:43:29am |
re: #535 Guanxi88
Making an honest effort to understand you, would it be fair to say that religious texts are written almost as an 'in-joke'? If you don't know all the non-written 'stuff' that goes with any particular religion, you won't be able to pull all the meaning out of the text in isloation?
549 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:43:40am |
re: #544 Dragon_Lady
Are you sure their going to be allowed to pass it on to renters? We here in Los Angeles have rent control. They cannot raise our rent but once a year and only by 7% max.
Not sure, but I think a landlord (private person) raising rent and the gubment raising taxes are different.
550 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:44:00am |
re: #546 albusteve
eeh you know how it is.. There is an actual balancing point, otherwise we get Robber barons and Enron (or the financial collapse of 2009).
551 | Guanxi88 Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:44:31am |
re: #540 windsagio
*trying again*
So you're saying theres a tendency to over look the anthropological element?
No, it's even more than that. Consider, in the case of the Jews - as a people largely constituted BY a set of texts, to attempt to understand the texts in terms of the people is impossible and pointlessly absurd. The texts were the cause, the people the effect, in a sense.
What I'm getting at is that revelation creates so many problems that the texts cannot be treated like conventional literary output if one hopes to try to understand them.
552 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:44:59am |
re: #549 Cannadian Club Akbar
stonemason is claiming that any tax increase on rent received will be instantly and automatically passed on to the renters. Its a response to that :P
553 | Stonemason Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:45:09am |
re: #533 windsagio
Okay, I own a house that I rent. I sit down with my accountant and he says your taxes will be X with this new HC thing. I tell my accountant to raise the rent X to cover the tax. How am I now paying the tax?
I have been through this argument many times, renters pay taxes on the properties they rent, it is part of the rent, just like sales tax is part of what you pay for goods, or fuel tax is paid at the pump.
Just because you do not get the actual bill does not mean you do not pay the tax.
554 | Guanxi88 Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:45:13am |
re: #543 Obdicut
I think that your argument is pretty muddled, and can't actually understand what you think the barrier is to me getting a message out of the Book of Job. I can understand Job as a human, I can understand his conception of God, I can understand the events in the context that's given.
I'm reading Job to understand a man wrestling with his faith and his fate. I'm really uncertain what you think I can't get out of it simply because I'm analyzing it as a piece of literature telling that story rather than a divinely inspired record of that story.
As I said - reading Moby Dick to learn about seafaring.
555 | NJDhockeyfan Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:45:23am |
Sex at the museum: Swingers in Vienna art hall
VIENNA – In the name of art, an Austrian landmark is encouraging visitors to confront their sexual inhibitions by having them walk through a swingers club to reach one of Gustav Klimt's masterpieces.
The Secession — a world-renowned venue for contemporary art in downtown Vienna — has temporarily incorporated a sex club named "Element6" as part of a project by Swiss artist Christoph Buechel.
The swingers are not there during the day, but their mattresses, erotic pictures, bar and whirlpool are.
556 | Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:45:38am |
re: #552 windsagio
stonemason is claiming that any tax increase on rent received will be instantly and automatically passed on to the renters. Its a response to that :P
It probably will be.
557 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:46:05am |
re: #553 Stonemason
Your mistake is in automatically assuming that everyone will do that. In some cases they will, in some they won't. It's complex.
558 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:46:32am |
re: #554 Guanxi88
As I said - reading Moby Dick to learn about seafaring.
You'd do better with Patrick O'Brian.
559 | Obdicut Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:46:32am |
re: #551 Guanxi88
How does your argument not hinge on revelation being real?
560 | Political Atheist Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:46:58am |
re: #522 oldegeezr
I can only try to imagine.
561 | albusteve Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:47:13am |
re: #554 Guanxi88
As I said - reading Moby Dick to learn about seafaring.
pfft!...the O'Brian novels put Melville to shame...
jus sayin
562 | lawhawk Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:47:38am |
re: #553 Stonemason
Even in your example, the accountant would look at the tax situation facing the landlord and determine whether the rents portion of his tax obligations increased - and if they did, that would be passed on. That doesn't mean that everyone will see the tax passed through.
Much more likely is the property tax bill passed through to the renter since that is a much bigger slice of the cost to a landlord besides the mortgage, upkeep and maintenance.
563 | Stonemason Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:47:53am |
re: #542 windsagio
NO, I do not want the bill, without the bill these new taxes would not be needed. Pretty simple.
If he was calling for a tax increase and an equivalent cut in services to knock down the deficit, I might grin and bear it, but to tax me more for something I feel is going to hurt the country? Nope, not gonna let that pass.
564 | Walter L. Newton Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:47:55am |
re: #551 Guanxi88
No, it's even more than that. Consider, in the case of the Jews - as a people largely constituted BY a set of texts, to attempt to understand the texts in terms of the people is impossible and pointlessly absurd. The texts were the cause, the people the effect, in a sense.
What I'm getting at is that revelation creates so many problems that the texts cannot be treated like conventional literary output if one hopes to try to understand them.
And you are well aware that textual critics have shown over and over that there are many problems with the text, historically, anthropologically, archeologically and so on.
Yes, the text certainly CAN be treated like conventional literary output, and it has. Textual criticism is a science, not just some slipshod meanderings.
565 | albusteve Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:48:26am |
re: #557 windsagio
Your mistake is in automatically assuming that everyone will do that. In some cases they will, in some they won't. It's complex.
it's simple...you pass on the costs to the consumer
567 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:48:57am |
re: #561 albusteve
pfft!...the O'Brian novels put Melville to shame...
jus sayin
Not necessarily in terms of the greatness of the story or the writing - but if you want a clear idea of how ships were run in those days, O'Brian's the man.
And the stories ain't bad, either.
568 | Donna Ballard Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:49:02am |
re: #549 Cannadian Club Akbar
Not sure, but I think a landlord (private person) raising rent and the gubment raising taxes are different.
In California it is. The law is pretty strict on the raising of rents unless someone moves out, then the renter may raise the rent to what ever the market will bear, but in our building our managers have had to lower rates just to get the empty units filled. Units that were going for $1150.00 per mo are now renting for $950.00 to $975.00 just because the land lord is loosing $ when their empty. One of our neighbors moved from their small 1 bedroom to a larger unit that was being offered for a lower rent then they were paying in the small place. But they had to wait until the lease was up to do it.
570 | Obdicut Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:49:23am |
re: #559 Obdicut
And not just real, but uninterpreted by human minds?
Look at it this way: Even if something was 'revealed' to a human being through divine inspiration, he was still a human being using human language writing it down and communicating it, and it was still edited by human beings. Even if you accept the revelation as real, how can you ignore that from that revelation, the human being created a text to communicate that revelation?
571 | Guanxi88 Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:49:34am |
re: #559 Obdicut
How does your argument not hinge on revelation being real?
It doesn't require it.
You don't have to believe in revelation to understand that works that claim to be revealed are, and are regarded by the communities constituted by them, as other than, say, fiction, poetry, or historical works.
What it amounts to is the attempt to read the text as the text wishes to be read, as it has been read and understood by its primary users and guardians, and, in general, to extend to the "fact" of revelation the same courtesy and consideration the anthropologists extend to the "facts" of mana, totem, and taboo.
572 | Stonemason Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:50:28am |
re: #544 Dragon_Lady
and those 'allowed' raises are to cover the raises in taxes and other expenses. Believe me, the other expenses will not be incurred as often (new carpet, paint, fixing gutters) if the taxes go up.
This is a business, profit is profit, the government is trying to take profit, the money has to come from somewhere and it will always go down to the lowest point.
573 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:51:15am |
re: #565 albusteve
read what lawhawk said:
re: #562 lawhawk
Even in your example, the accountant would look at the tax situation facing the landlord and determine whether the rents portion of his tax obligations increased - and if they did, that would be passed on. That doesn't mean that everyone will see the tax passed through.
Much more likely is the property tax bill passed through to the renter since that is a much bigger slice of the cost to a landlord besides the mortgage, upkeep and maintenance.
~~
Like I said, its a complex issue, and not direct blowthrough.
574 | Obdicut Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:51:23am |
re: #571 Guanxi88
What it amounts to is the attempt to read the text as the text wishes to be read, as it has been read and understood by its primary users and guardians, and, in general, to extend to the "fact" of revelation the same courtesy and consideration the anthropologists extend to the "facts" of mana, totem, and taboo.
What makes you think a textual approach can't do that? Any textual approach obviously includes an appreciation of the audience and circumstances under which it was written. And, see my post immediately above yours.
575 | Oh no...Sand People! Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:51:44am |
re: #519 Obdicut
Well, that's just silly. They exist as texts no matter what else they are. They are perfectly open to textual analysis as well as theological analysis.
I like the Bible. I get a great deal from reading it. The Book of Job is one of the greatest literary achievements of all time, and one of the most poignant stories about fate and humanity.
You seem to be claiming the only possible analysis of religious texts is by the faithful of those texts. Does this mean that anyone commenting on what's contained inside the Koran who is not a faithful Muslim cannot possibly have a correct interpretation?
Or do you just need to be some form of theist to comment on religious texts meaningfully?
There is a John Kerry serving in vietnam analogy here and you not serving in vietnam means you can't talk about it...somewhere in this argument...I think.
576 | albusteve Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:51:45am |
re: #567 Cato the Elder
Not necessarily in terms of the greatness of the story or the writing - but if you want a clear idea of how ships were run in those days, O'Brian's the man.
And the stories ain't bad, either.
correct...the actual sailing dynamics are perfectly acurate, straight out of the manual (if there is one)...it's one hallmark of his writing and any modern sailor reads his stuff
577 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:52:08am |
re: #572 Stonemason
It took me a minute to make the connection, but you're actually pushing voodoo economics again >>
578 | Guanxi88 Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:52:10am |
re: #564 Walter L. Newton
And you are well aware that textual critics have shown over and over that there are many problems with the text, historically, anthropologically, archeologically and so on.
Yes, the text certainly CAN be treated like conventional literary output, and it has. Textual criticism is a science, not just some slipshod meanderings.
Who says you can't apply these tools to these texts? But I do argue that one misses the point in doing so.
Look, there's evidence to suggest the texts were edited on a number of occasions - and yet, errors in the re-telling of tales, goof-ups in geneologies, deviations from accepted spellings and known chronologies - all appear.
The editors left these in, on the very sound principle that these things, as they do not obviously contradict Mosaic monotheism, might in fact be of some importance. They understood that the thing at which they looked was perhaps greater than they could understand, and so they were very careful not to cut out anything that wasn't obviously blasphemous or insane.
579 | Obdicut Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:52:25am |
re: #572 Stonemason
This is untrue, though. Goods and services are sold at the price the market will bear. The elasticity and inelasticity of the particular market is what depends how far costs can be pushed to the consumer.
580 | suchislife Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:52:52am |
re: #557 windsagio
Also, I don't get why people assume that corporations etc somehow wait to be taxed before raising their prizes to get all they can. That's what they do, that's capitalism. Yes, when costs rise their profit margin gets smaller. But they will try to maximize it no matter what. Am I overlooking something here?
581 | Stonemason Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:53:06am |
re: #547 lawhawk
Okay, granted, it is not a given that all landlords will raise rents. Heck, I will even agree that the most affluent who rent to affluent might not do it.
I guarantee that those that rent to lower income families (not on section 8) are going to raise rents, and continue to not maintain the properties.
582 | Guanxi88 Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:53:13am |
re: #574 Obdicut
What makes you think a textual approach can't do that? Any textual approach obviously includes an appreciation of the audience and circumstances under which it was written. And, see my post immediately above yours.
The audience, though, is constituted by the text - and scripture admits of no context. Again, you're trying to smuggle in meanings based on a supposedly more complete view of the text and the nature of reality than that assumed by the text.
583 | oldegeezr Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:53:16am |
re: #530 windsagio
That’s been our petite blague entre deux amants for more than forty years…
Thanks for noticing!
584 | Oh no...Sand People! Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:53:22am |
re: #529 Stonemason
The president’s plan also calls for increasing taxes on interest, dividends, annuities, royalties and rents
and since most people who rent will pay this tax, and most people who rent make less than, heck, even $100,000 ( I would venture a guess that most renters are lower than $50,000) this taxes the middle and lower classes...
Go where the money is...
"People are losing their homes...now they are renting...Let's TAX THE RENT!"
"Cars are getting better efficiency in gas...we are losing gas tax revenue...Let's TAX THE MILES THEY DRIVE!"
Devious bastard the Tax Man and he doth cometh.
585 | Donna Ballard Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:53:27am |
re: #572 Stonemason
and those 'allowed' raises are to cover the raises in taxes and other expenses. Believe me, the other expenses will not be incurred as often (new carpet, paint, fixing gutters) if the taxes go up.
This is a business, profit is profit, the government is trying to take profit, the money has to come from somewhere and it will always go down to the lowest point.
Yeah, but there are other things the landlord can do to lower costs. Point in fact our building is replacing every toilet in the place for extream low flow toilets to lower the water consumption. They're pretty good about getting repairs done here, but you're prob right they'll be slowing down on them if a higher tax is levied.
586 | RogueOne Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:54:01am |
re: #508 albusteve
you are paid to blog, and complaining about it?
No, not sure who you have me confused with, I run a family business.
587 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:54:22am |
588 | Guanxi88 Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:55:10am |
Off to frolic in the RARE central Texas snow!
589 | Donna Ballard Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:55:13am |
re: #583 oldegeezr
That’s been our petite blague entre deux amants for more than forty years…
Thanks for noticing!
Huh? My universal translator is down this morning. Care to try that in English for those of us who don't speak French? :-)
590 | Stonemason Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:55:22am |
re: #552 windsagio
any tax increase on fuel is immediately passed on, any tax increase on goods are immediately passed on, any tax increase...is immediately passed on.
How do we not see this>Just because you do not get the actual bill does not mean you do not pay the tax.
591 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:55:47am |
re: #589 Dragon_Lady
I cheated and looked it up (french isn't my language at all :p)
"small joke between two lovers"
592 | albusteve Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:56:22am |
re: #586 RogueOne
No, not sure who you have me confused with, I run a family business.
good for you...and I hope you make past the rough times....and grow!
593 | Donna Ballard Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:56:25am |
re: #591 windsagio
I cheated and looked it up (french isn't my language at all :p)
"small joke between two lovers"
Ahhhh! Gottch ya! Tanx!
594 | Stonemason Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:56:39am |
re: #557 windsagio
Businesses are now going to become altruistic?
595 | ShaunP Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:56:57am |
re: #590 Stonemason
any tax increase on fuel is immediately passed on, any tax increase on goods are immediately passed on, any tax increase...is immediately passed on.
How do we not see this>Just because you do not get the actual bill does not mean you do not pay the tax.
I have a lease, so any tax increase on my landlord will not impact me. At least not right now or when I go to renew as the renewal rates are written into the current lease too.
If I move; it will probably hit me...
596 | simoom Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:57:07am |
re: #516 NJDhockeyfan
Surprise!
The cutoffs in the tax promises have always been $200,000 single and $250,000 couple, and 95% of the time they communicate it correctly (most of the slip ups have involved not including both figures, or not specifying the two categories correctly).
[Link: www.politifact.com...]
[Link: www.politifact.com...]
597 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:57:19am |
re: #590 Stonemason
Yes yes, we've heard this all before. Its the supply-side theory that's done us so well over the last 30 years.
And the point is, that the end consumer likely pays some of the tax. Sometimes none of it, sometimes all of it, usually some %. Its just not so cut and dried.
598 | Obdicut Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:58:06am |
re: #582 Guanxi88
The audience, though, is constituted by the text - and scripture admits of no context. Again, you're trying to smuggle in meanings based on a supposedly more complete view of the text and the nature of reality than that assumed by the text.
I have no idea what you mean by your repeated assertions I'm trying to smuggle something. I do think that I know something more about the physical nature of the universe than people in Biblical times. I do think they would think I understand far less about the nature of God.
Can you please be more explicit about what it is I'm 'smuggling'?
599 | Stonemason Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:58:18am |
re: #569 windsagio
I do not like unnecessary taxes
600 | albusteve Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:58:22am |
re: #594 Stonemason
Businesses are now going to become altruistic?
don't you watch TV commercials?....dude, we can help you save!
601 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:58:30am |
re: #594 Stonemason
Its not necessarily in their best interest to pass all the cost along.
602 | Donna Ballard Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:58:57am |
re: #591 windsagio
I cheated and looked it up (french isn't my language at all :p)
"small joke between two lovers"
P.S. I like a good cheater! You did well on that one... upding for you!
603 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:59:27am |
re: #601 windsagio
an example: If there was a 1cent tax put on all fast food, McDonalds wouldn't change their "dollar menu" to their "$1.01 menu".
604 | Stonemason Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:59:43am |
re: #577 windsagio
It took me a minute to make the connection, but you're actually pushing voodoo economics again >>
Voodoo economics?
605 | suchislife Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:59:46am |
re: #594 Stonemason
Since you're saying "they're just passing on the tax" instead of acknowledging that they will demand whatever the market allows them to demand, I would say that you are the one who gives them too much credit.
606 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:00:24am |
re: #602 Dragon_Lady
I use Google Translate now. Its simply amazing, especially compared to the older ones (like babelfish)
607 | jaunte Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:00:39am |
re: #603 windsagio
an example: If there was a 1cent tax put on all fast food, McDonalds wouldn't change their "dollar menu" to their "$1.01 menu".
They would charge 4 cents more for a drink.
608 | lawhawk Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:00:49am |
re: #590 Stonemason
any tax increase on fuel is immediately passed on, any tax increase on goods are immediately passed on, any tax increase...is immediately passed on.
How do we not see this>Just because you do not get the actual bill does not mean you do not pay the tax.
If you're in a month to month lease, you may see the tax increases passed on directly - along with fuel and other costs that are included in the rent - that's because the lease comes up for evaluation every month.
If you're in an annual lease (or longer) your rental costs as a renter are fixed for the period of the lease, and will increase via negotiations at end of period.
Those costs that are incurred will get passed on, but it will not occur immediately unless you're in a month to month.
609 | albusteve Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:01:00am |
re: #599 Stonemason
I do not like unnecessary taxes
taxation is one of those endeavors that floats between the legal and the criminal...at some point it becomes unethical to tax you so that others can buy a new car, for example
610 | Oh no...Sand People! Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:01:39am |
re: #601 windsagio
Its not necessarily in their best interest to pass all the cost along.
It's not necessarily in anyone's best interest to deal with all these regulations, taxes, and fees in the first place.
But, I forgot...I need to fund an overseas abortion, or..wait for it...so some dude with aids can cut himself and bleed all over a stage in the name of art, funded by a grant...BRILLIANT!
611 | Donna Ballard Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:01:50am |
Well girls and boys, I'm gonna log off and go draw for a while. The art bug is calling and I cannot deny its right to express itself. See y'all later! Have a great day and Keep Laughing!
612 | keloyd Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:01:53am |
Consider also that the Hebrews (before "Jew" was a word for them) who wrote the book of Job intended it as a story and not literal truth.
"There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job..."
Even in the possibly oldest text of the Bible, they could not have been more clear. The set the thing in a made-up place. Uz is either made up or means vaguely 'to the east'. Why even mention the location except to underline its being a story? Sometimes literal facts were written down; sometimes stories of intrinsic value were written down, but clearly indended to not be taken as factual, yet we keep arguing.
/no offense intended to Uzbeckistan
613 | Buck Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:01:59am |
Somehow discussing the latest attack on freedom from the far left (yes I am being purposely provocative) seems more important.
In the first test of its kind since the Sept. 11 attacks, the Supreme Court will consider today whether a federal law that bars support to designated terrorist groups violates First Amendment rights of free speech and association.
The crux of the case, which pits First Amendment values against government anti-terrorist efforts, is whether the law that traces to 1996 and was amended by the 2001 USA Patriot Act is so poorly defined that it criminalizes pure speech.
If the organization really wants to get humanitarian help, then let them renounce terror.
That seems very simple.
614 | albusteve Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:02:02am |
re: #603 windsagio
an example: If there was a 1cent tax put on all fast food, McDonalds wouldn't change their "dollar menu" to their "$1.01 menu".
no, they would only give you 99cents worth of food
615 | SixDegrees Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:02:16am |
re: #603 windsagio
an example: If there was a 1cent tax put on all fast food, McDonalds wouldn't change their "dollar menu" to their "$1.01 menu".
No; they'd shift the increases to areas where it wasn't so noticeable. Like the cost of a side of french fries, for example. No one knows what that cost is in the first place, for the most part, and they certainly won't notice a nickel or dime increase in it as a result.
616 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:02:20am |
re: #604 Stonemason
Its what GHW Bush called Reaganomics in the 1980 pres primary.
617 | Walter L. Newton Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:03:12am |
re: #578 Guanxi88
Who says you can't apply these tools to these texts? But I do argue that one misses the point in doing so.
Look, there's evidence to suggest the texts were edited on a number of occasions - and yet, errors in the re-telling of tales, goof-ups in geneologies, deviations from accepted spellings and known chronologies - all appear.
The editors left these in, on the very sound principle that these things, as they do not obviously contradict Mosaic monotheism, might in fact be of some importance. They understood that the thing at which they looked was perhaps greater than they could understand, and so they were very careful not to cut out anything that wasn't obviously blasphemous or insane.
No one misses the point. Textual critics take all those things into consideration, you seem to have a very low opinion of textual critics.
(P.S. I am filling out some on line job applications, so I am now paying real close attention to this conversation... my bad).
618 | The Sanity Inspector Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:03:58am |
re: #524 albusteve
I was a victim of domestic financial violence...twice...they don't even have a folder for that one
I overheard a chilling conversation in a restaurant one time. A fifty-ish guy and a male companion were in a booth nearby, and he was bitching about the political issues of the day. His spiel turned to divorce. The system was stacked against men, he said. A divorced man has to watch his alimony and child support go up his ex-wife's nose, while the kids suffer and the ex shakes him down for more. The ex doesn't honor the visitation agreements. The father is probably labeled a child molester, to boot, if it furthers the mother's case. And on and on. "A man'd be better off than divorcing if he would just take a rifle and shoot her! You'd be out in 20 years, your property and money would still be there, and that would be the end of it!"
That was years ago, yet I still remember it. I really hope that guy was just venting.
619 | Stonemason Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:04:37am |
re: #603 windsagio
no, but they wold remove one fry from the amount of fries you receive, shrink the big mac by 1/10 of an ounce.
Businesses are in business to make money, if costs go up, something must happen to continue to make money.
620 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:05:20am |
re: #614 albusteve
They're only giving like 20 cents worth of food anyways :p
In retail especially (I admit it breaks down a fair deal when we transfer the discussion to rent) the price-points are very carefully analyzed and are part of the sale plan. If it were worth the money they might mess with their portions, but I'd bet in the McDonalds example, they wouldn't bother.
621 | Obdicut Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:05:36am |
re: #615 SixDegrees
Do you have any reason to believe they would actually raise the price of anything? If people would still buy the same volume of fries at a nickel more, why didn't they already price it at a nickel more?
Goods and services are sold at their optimal price point. If a company raises the price on something but loses volume, they often lose total profits. So, if raising the price of fries by a nickel had no negative effect on volume, why didn't they already charge that price? And if it does have a negative effect on volume sold, why did they raise it and lower their total profits?
622 | Stonemason Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:06:05am |
re: #605 suchislife
Nope, the ones who are renting for far too much to begin with (and according to another poster, those rents are coming down) will not have to raise rents, the profit margin will fall, but in areas where the profit margin is already too low, the increase will be passed along in some form.
623 | Obdicut Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:06:17am |
re: #617 Walter L. Newton
Good luck on the applications. And watch out-- there's a lot of Ponzi schemes and other con artists filling up the job boards these days.
624 | Buck Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:06:51am |
re: #621 Obdicut
Do you have any reason to believe they would actually raise the price of anything? If people would still buy the same volume of fries at a nickel more, why didn't they already price it at a nickel more?
Goods and services are sold at their optimal price point. If a company raises the price on something but loses volume, they often lose total profits. So, if raising the price of fries by a nickel had no negative effect on volume, why didn't they already charge that price? And if it does have a negative effect on volume sold, why did they raise it and lower their total profits?
Here they sell it at $1 plus tax. Still the dollar menu, but with the tax added at the register.
625 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:07:05am |
re: #618 The Sanity Inspector
I think its in the eye of the victim. One of my co-workers likes to go on about how the system is so unfair to women in a divorce too.
I've never been through that tho', so who knows?
626 | The Sanity Inspector Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:07:41am |
re: #621 Obdicut
Do you have any reason to believe they would actually raise the price of anything? If people would still buy the same volume of fries at a nickel more, why didn't they already price it at a nickel more?
Goods and services are sold at their optimal price point. If a company raises the price on something but loses volume, they often lose total profits. So, if raising the price of fries by a nickel had no negative effect on volume, why didn't they already charge that price? And if it does have a negative effect on volume sold, why did they raise it and lower their total profits?
Competition? Attempting to undercut the other guys, or reacting to similar attempts against themselves?
627 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:07:43am |
re: #624 Buck
we're talking about backend taxes tho', not frontend taxes.
628 | Stonemason Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:08:18am |
re: #608 lawhawk
Correct, I agree, one reason long term leases are good for the consumer. ANd then when the lease is renegotiated the tax will be included.
629 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:08:36am |
re: #626 The Sanity Inspector
Thats his point. Unless they're running an illegal consortium, they can't conspire to raise prices across the board.
630 | Walter L. Newton Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:09:28am |
re: #623 Obdicut
Good luck on the applications. And watch out-- there's a lot of Ponzi schemes and other con artists filling up the job boards these days.
I know... thanks... I'm updating my profile with Ciber, I don't think they are a con artist... very big IT placement firm, deal with a lot of legacy applications, which suits me since I come from a 30 year background of system designs.
Maybe I'll get to work on some legacy scientific code written in bad Fortran :)
631 | NJDhockeyfan Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:10:22am |
Coal-State Democrats Oppose Global-Warming Rules
Washington (AP) - Eight Democratic senators from industrial states want Congress -- not the Environmental Protection Agency -- to regulate pollution blamed for global warming, saying the issue has big implications for thousands of U.S. jobs and businesses.
In a letter written by Sen. Jay Rockefeller of West Virginia, the lawmakers challenge the EPA's efforts to restrict greenhouse gases from stationary sources such as power plants, factories and mines.
Opposition to EPA regulations by Democrats could pose a serious blow to the Obama administration's effort to restrict heat-trapping greenhouse gases. While the administration is still pushing for Congress to pass a comprehensive climate bill this year, officials have not ruled out controlling greenhouse gases through regulation.
The letter to EPA Administrator Lisa Jackson was signed by Democrats Mark Begich of Alaska, Robert Byrd of West Virginia, Sherrod Brown of Ohio, Bob Casey of Pennsylvania, Claire McCaskill of Missouri, Carl Levin of Michigan and Max Baucus of Montana.
632 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:10:27am |
re: #630 Walter L. Newton
Maybe I'll get to work on some legacy scientific code written in bad Fortran :)
+ just for that :D
I'm sure you know this, but it bears repeating (used to work for a recruiter here): If they're charging anything upfront, its a scam.
633 | Obdicut Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:10:35am |
re: #626 The Sanity Inspector
That's reasonable, but it still doesn't address the basic problem: a change in the costs of something changes the profit margin, but if a raise in costs lowers volume, it lowers profits. The assertion that companies blindly pass costs to the consumers is an assertion that they don't actually do the math on optimal price points. They do.
634 | lawhawk Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:10:56am |
re: #621 Obdicut
There are loss-leaders to encourage people to come in; profit centers where companies make their serious money; and volume sales - where a penny here and penny there add up to big profits.
If the price of beef increases (and that's happened in the past), you might get changes in price - or that quarter pounder (before cooking) starts looking a little smaller since the cooking process drives off more fat and water that was added along the way to the pre-cooking weight. Or the lettuce and tomato portion is reduced slightly. Lots of places to cut the cost to the seller. A few little cuts here and there, and you've got the same price.
635 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:10:57am |
re: #631 NJDhockeyfan
Thats the problem with the Dems in a nutshell. Bastards are too busy representing their own state interests to see the big picture >>
636 | albusteve Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:11:53am |
re: #618 The Sanity Inspector
I have a few nightmare divorce stories involving my daughter....15 years of pure hell...the worst stuff can and does happen to fathers...I lost a lot of battles, but I won the war altho it seared me with an intense burning anger that lasted for years after
637 | Oh no...Sand People! Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:11:55am |
re: #620 windsagio
They're only giving like 20 cents worth of food anyways :p
In retail especially (I admit it breaks down a fair deal when we transfer the discussion to rent) the price-points are very carefully analyzed and are part of the sale plan. If it were worth the money they might mess with their portions, but I'd bet in the McDonalds example, they wouldn't bother.
I'm telling you as an entrepreneur, you do all you can to make as much as you can with as little as you can get away with. If it's a good or service that the market wants at the point you have to offer, fantastic. If not, you adjust accordingly, then when the government comes into play it can throw a wrench into everything. The market might not like the product you offer at the point that you HAVE to charge due to fees and taxes and remain just breaking even. So what happens next? You close shop or figure out a way to come up with a different method, which costs money, and at times venture capital, angel investors, etc, bank loans in this market, aren't readily available. So when the government wonders why higher taxes are actually generating less revenue...go figure. They are business idiots (for the most part) who have little actual business experience.
People respond to incentives.
638 | Obdicut Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:11:58am |
re: #630 Walter L. Newton
Also look into [Link: www.opportunityknocks.org...]
It's a non-profit jobs site which advertises a lot of jobs not advertised in other places. And I think a non-profit place might respect your, uh, fiery enthusiasm a great deal.
639 | Stonemason Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:12:39am |
re: #616 windsagio
So you honestly believe that only the corporations pay corporate taxes and that it does not find its way down to you?
I took a finance 101 class a few months ago, this was covered. When pricing a good or service one must take into account all cost associated with providing that good or service, and taxes are a cost.
640 | NJDhockeyfan Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:12:49am |
re: #635 windsagio
Thats the problem with the Dems in a nutshell. Bastards are too busy representing their own state interests to see the big picture >>
How dare they listen to their constituents!
641 | darthstar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:13:23am |
re: #630 Walter L. Newton
I know... thanks... I'm updating my profile with Ciber, I don't think they are a con artist... very big IT placement firm, deal with a lot of legacy applications, which suits me since I come from a 30 year background of system designs.
Maybe I'll get to work on some legacy scientific code written in bad Fortran :)
The important thing, once you get an interview, is to be positive. Let them know you enjoy what you do and you do it well as a result. That goes a long way. I had a guy on the phone yesterday who pretty much had a face-to-face sealed, then went off on a rant about off-shore and college grads taking all the jobs. People don't want to hire bitter. They want to hire positive additions.
642 | Obdicut Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:13:28am |
re: #634 lawhawk
Yes, but they don't do so blindly. They do not seek to pass costs to the customer, they seek to make the highest profits possible. The two things are not in the least bit the same.
643 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:13:34am |
re: #637 Oh no...Sand People!
This discussion is getting far away from the real point, but here's what I'd say to that:
A massive multinational deals with this kind of situation substantially differently than a small entrepreneur does.
644 | Oh no...Sand People! Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:14:02am |
re: #621 Obdicut
Do you have any reason to believe they would actually raise the price of anything? If people would still buy the same volume of fries at a nickel more, why didn't they already price it at a nickel more?
Goods and services are sold at their optimal price point. If a company raises the price on something but loses volume, they often lose total profits. So, if raising the price of fries by a nickel had no negative effect on volume, why didn't they already charge that price? And if it does have a negative effect on volume sold, why did they raise it and lower their total profits?
If this were a vacuum I would agree, but when Burger King is in competition it forces Mc'D's to keep the price low. Now let's throw in Wendy's, Carl's Jr. and my favorite JACK IN THE BOX (aawww yeah), then you can ensure the market keeping them close to honest just through competition.
645 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:14:20am |
646 | darthstar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:14:36am |
re: #632 windsagio
+ just for that :D
I'm sure you know this, but it bears repeating (used to work for a recruiter here): If they're charging anything upfront, its a scam.
Welcome to The Ladders. 100K jobs for 100K people. Oh, and if you don't mind paying us a monthly fee, we'll find something for you. Assholes.
648 | The Sanity Inspector Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:15:20am |
re: #636 albusteve
I have a few nightmare divorce stories involving my daughter...15 years of pure hell...the worst stuff can and does happen to fathers...I lost a lot of battles, but I won the war altho it seared me with an intense burning anger that lasted for years after
{{albusteve}}
/ never thought I find myself typing that...
649 | NJDhockeyfan Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:15:43am |
Eric Holder stonewalls Congress on terror lawyers
A number of lawyers who work on terrorist issues at the Justice Department represented terrorist detainees before joining the Obama administration. At a hearing three months ago, Sen. Charles Grassley raised the possibility of a conflict with Attorney General Eric Holder.
Grassley, a senior Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee, posed three simple questions: Who are they, who did they represent, and what are their duties at the Justice Department today?
At the time, Grassley knew from press reports that two high-ranking department officials now working on detainee issues had previously worked for detainees: Principal Deputy Solicitor General Neal Katyal once represented Osama bin Laden's driver, and Jennifer Daskal, an official in the National Security Division, worked on behalf of detainees at the liberal organization Human Rights Watch.
"This prior representation, I think, creates a conflict of interest problem for these individuals," Grassley said, asking Holder to supply the names of all political appointees who had represented or advocated for detainees, the cases they worked on, and their terror-related responsibilities in the Justice Department.
Holder at first blew Grassley off, but later said he would look into it. Later, all GOP senators on the Judiciary Committee joined in Grassley's request. But November passed with no answer from Holder. Then December went by, with no answer. Then January.
650 | Bagua Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:15:52am |
Weather report:
Moscow has been blessed with 20 inches of snow, the snowiest February since 1966.
Austin TX, sleet and 35 degrees.
651 | Stonemason Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:16:32am |
re: #621 Obdicut
Okay, I buy your argument. McDonald's is not going to raise the prices due to the increase hypothetically posited.
At the end of the year, the balance sheets are done, and each McDonald's needs to cut about $30,000 in the coming year due to this new tax. Interestingly enough, that is the salary of the assistant to the assistant manager, a single mom of three.
652 | reine.de.tout Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:16:52am |
re: #650 Bagua
Weather report:
Moscow has been blessed with 20 inches of snow, the snowiest February since 1966.
Austin TX, sleet and 35 degrees.
Predicted snow dusting, Baton Rouge LA area tonight/tomorrow a.m.
I'll believe it when I see it.
653 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:16:57am |
654 | Oh no...Sand People! Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:17:07am |
656 | The Sanity Inspector Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:18:40am |
re: #637 Oh no...Sand People!
I half-heard something on the radio the other week, that there was a government plan to boost employment by cutting or forgoing payroll taxes for new hires. A guest expert said that this would prompt employers to fire as many people as possible, and then rehire at the more favorable tax rate.
657 | darthstar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:18:46am |
re: #655 lawhawk
It's winter. It happens.
Reno got 17 inches the other night. The ski resorts got 4 inches. Who do I complain to about that? Reno doesn't need 17 inches of snow. They're in the flats.
658 | albusteve Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:19:10am |
re: #648 The Sanity Inspector
{{albusteve}}
/ never thought I find myself typing that...
yeah....that woman was a ringer, the only pathological liar I ever knew, just incredible/fascinating the stuff I had to defend myself from
659 | Bagua Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:19:12am |
re: #655 lawhawk
It's winter. It happens.
It is happening. But yes I know, cold weather always requires disclaimers and rationalisation.
660 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:19:23am |
re: #656 The Sanity Inspector
That strikes me as a crazily bad idea. How much would the lost productivity and training cost??
661 | Obdicut Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:19:34am |
re: #651 Stonemason
At the end of the year, the balance sheets are done, and each McDonald's needs to cut about $30,000 in the coming year due to this new tax. Interestingly enough, that is the salary of the assistant to the assistant manager, a single mom of three.
No. This doesn't happen. Why do you believe it does? Do you really think
companies are that goddamn stupid?
Why would they need to cut $30,000 due to this tax? Do they have to pay the vig to Lorenzo or something? If they're still selling at their optimal price point and making profits, why on earth would they have to fire someone?
Do you understand the bit about selling at the optimal price point?
662 | Killgore Trout Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:19:58am |
Mark Levin on Glenn Beck and CPAC....
Mark's New Note: Feb 21, 2010
I was invited to be the opening speaker at Saturday's CPAC session. I had accepted but then, to my amazement, I learned that the John Birch Society would be one of many co-sponsors. This takes the big-tent idea many steps too far for me. So, I withdrew. Apparently, others were not so moved. That's fine. But it wasn't for me. Bill Buckley and Barry Goldwater, among others, chased the Birchers from the movement decades ago. And they're not a part of the movement. So, to give them a booth at CPAC was boneheaded.
....
663 | Walter L. Newton Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:20:01am |
re: #638 Obdicut
Also look into [Link: www.opportunityknocks.org...]
It's a non-profit jobs site which advertises a lot of jobs not advertised in other places. And I think a non-profit place might respect your, uh, fiery enthusiasm a great deal.
Got it booked marked.
Most of the part time, off and on contract work I have had over the last 5 years, since I was laid off from the DOE, has actually been through Craigslist.
I know how to pick out the scams from the real listing on there.
The off and on work I have been doing for Kaiser for the last two years came from Craigslist.
I am in a better position to take temporary part time programming work right now, better so than a year ago when I was totally on my own and didn't trust the on and off nature of contract work. That's why I was working at the theatre, at least it was steady and permanent.
So, I am not as locked in to just looking for full time work anymore. Short term contract programming with a good pop of pay will work nicely right now.
664 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:21:02am |
re: #663 Walter L. Newton
Its nice to have the security to really look rather than being hand-to-mouth :)
665 | Walter L. Newton Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:21:21am |
re: #651 Stonemason
Question, is this talk about MCD's about the proposed "sin" tax on unhealthy food?
666 | Stonemason Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:21:28am |
re: #645 windsagio
and I have made a number of posts where I agreed that not all landlords will have to pass on the tax right away. Of course that is because the rent was too high to begin with but that is another discussion altogether.
667 | Oh no...Sand People! Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:21:38am |
re: #651 Stonemason
Okay, I buy your argument. McDonald's is not going to raise the prices due to the increase hypothetically posited.
At the end of the year, the balance sheets are done, and each McDonald's needs to cut about $30,000 in the coming year due to this new tax. Interestingly enough, that is the salary of the assistant to the assistant manager, a single mom of three.
This is my overall point:
When the goal of a business turns from offering a superior product, good, or service and the goal becomes 'tax loops' and just figuring out how to get out of them, or, they may still offer the best product, good or service, yet now a giant portion is focused on lowering the tax burden 'creatively', this takes away from further R&D, employee pay, or even company growth, which is what a lot of business want to do, then there is something completely amiss with the system.
It is and it does.
668 | albusteve Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:21:48am |
re: #657 darthstar
Reno got 17 inches the other night. The ski resorts got 4 inches. Who do I complain to about that? Reno doesn't need 17 inches of snow. They're in the flats.
Taos and Santa Fe have had excellent snow this year...that stuff is the lifeblood of NM...and we always love it when the southern CO mountains get hammered
669 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:22:22am |
re: #665 Walter L. Newton
It should be, thats a good subject too.
It started being about whether the new tax on rent would be entirely passed on to the tenants or not.... its kinda mutated from there ;)
670 | Walter L. Newton Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:22:23am |
re: #664 windsagio
Its nice to have the security to really look rather than being hand-to-mouth :)
I can thank a person that a dearly love for that security.
671 | NJDhockeyfan Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:22:23am |
Modern PC warfare has come to this.
MARJAH, Afghanistan—As Capt. Anthony Zinni monitored a live video feed from a Predator drone circling overhead, he spotted four men planting a booby trap in the middle of the road here.For Capt. Zinni, one of the officers responsible for approving airstrikes in the nine-day-old battle for Marjah, it seemed like an easy call: The men were digging a hole alongside a road where a Marine supply convoy was scheduled to pass within hours. But just as he was about to give the order to strike, Capt. Zinni spotted even-smaller white figures on the video running along the path south of the canal.
...When Capt. Zinni spotted the four men planting the booby trap on the afternoon of Feb. 17, the first thing he did was call his lawyer.
"Judge!" he yelled.
Capt. Matthew Andrew, judge advocate for 1st Battalion, 6th Marine Regiment, advises the battalion about when it is legal to order the airstrikes. He examined the figures on the video feed closely. "I think you got it," Capt. Andrew said, giving the OK for the strike.
Lawyers are running the war.
672 | suchislife Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:22:24am |
re: #661 Obdicut
The funny thing is, these are exactly the talking points a corporation would use.
673 | darthstar Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:22:57am |
re: #668 albusteve
Taos and Santa Fe have had excellent snow this year...that stuff is the lifeblood of NM...and we always love it when the southern CO mountains get hammered
I need to ski Taos one of these days. They've got some great elevation there (>12k peaks)...
674 | Oh no...Sand People! Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:23:01am |
re: #656 The Sanity Inspector
I half-heard something on the radio the other week, that there was a government plan to boost employment by cutting or forgoing payroll taxes for new hires. A guest expert said that this would prompt employers to fire as many people as possible, and then rehire at the more favorable tax rate.
Exactly. And the main reason a business grows is due to increase in productivity and growth and it is actually necessary and beneficial to hire more people. Not because they get a taxbreak on someone they aren't ready to hire on.
675 | Walter L. Newton Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:24:06am |
re: #669 windsagio
It should be, thats a good subject too.
It started being about whether the new tax on rent would be entirely passed on to the tenants or not... its kinda mutated from there ;)
Well, here in Colorado a tax is being suggested for soft drinks, because it's unhealthy. Well, it's a bunch of bullshit, because they also want to tax sugar-free soft drinks. Why don't they stop lying and just call it what it is, another tax, and stop telling us it's for our own good, because that's not the real reason.
676 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:24:15am |
re: #674 Oh no...Sand People!
I think the counterargument would be 'what if they need to hire someone but don't feel that they can afford it right now? The tax breaks might help them move forward'
677 | Unions = Innovation slash slash Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:24:52am |
re: #671 NJDhockeyfan
Modern PC warfare has come to this.
Lawyers are running the war.
This is nothing new. Who do you think writes ROE?
Sidenote, do you suppose Capt Zinni is Gen Zinni's son?
678 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:25:20am |
re: #675 Walter L. Newton
I think it helps them sell the tax >>
679 | Oh no...Sand People! Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:25:45am |
re: #671 NJDhockeyfan
Modern PC warfare has come to this.
Lawyers are running the war.
"Are you tired of being air raided? Do you feel you are being unfairly targeted?
One call, that's all!"
680 | Stonemason Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:25:54am |
re: #661 Obdicut
Yes I do, and I agree.
But you are arguing that if costs go up, the price will not, AND, nothing else changes. I am arguing that taxes are a part of the cost of doing business and if they go up, something has to happen to offset that.
I used an extreme example only because my discussion about rent was moved into the word of fast food.
681 | albusteve Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:26:37am |
re: #673 darthstar
I need to ski Taos one of these days. They've got some great elevation there (>12k peaks)...
terrific views across the Rio Grande valley...the resort is right below Wheeler Peak...just over 13k ft...it gets busy tho, not at all like a much larger facility, it's cozy
682 | Oh no...Sand People! Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:26:38am |
re: #676 windsagio
I think the counterargument would be 'what if they need to hire someone but don't feel that they can afford it right now? The tax breaks might help them move forward'
Which leads to me to say, make them, the tax breaks, permanent then.
683 | Stonemason Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:27:01am |
re: #665 Walter L. Newton
that was a hypothetical tax posited by another poster to take the discussion away from the actual desired increase on rental income tax.
684 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:27:05am |
re: #682 Oh no...Sand People!
Thats not fiscally responsible :P
685 | Walter L. Newton Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:27:44am |
re: #678 windsagio
I think it helps them sell the tax >>
Duh... you really weren't thinking that you were enlightening me there?
686 | Stanghazi Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:27:48am |
Remember Ryan Sorba - the gay hater @ CPAC?
Sorba doesn't seem to be too big a fan of just plain old regular law. He's got a history of run-ins with the law including a restraining order for domestic violence and another guilty plea for creating a disturbance at a polling station over Prop 8 back in 2008. According to Sorba, he was turned in in the latter case by "some homosexual guy."
I forget how old this guy is, but he's pretty young in my opinion to have being anti gay his life's calling.
688 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:28:36am |
re: #685 Walter L. Newton
now now, not just talking to you :)
689 | Stonemason Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:28:40am |
re: #669 windsagio
It started being about whether the new tax on rent would be entirely passed on to the tenants or not... its kinda mutated from there ;)
and I was wrong to assume entirely, if I did, I am not going up thread to figure it out. But a larger amount of it will find its way to those who can not afford it.
690 | Oh no...Sand People! Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:28:46am |
re: #684 windsagio
Thats not fiscally responsible :P
I agree in terms of Government. But not in terms of 'we the people'.
And as for me and my house, I choose the people. ;)
691 | Stanghazi Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:29:09am |
re: #686 Stanley Sea
Michael Sorba - correction. Sorry Ryan, whoever you are.
692 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:29:28am |
re: #690 Oh no...Sand People!
I think we can't pursue this any further. It leads to a bottomless pit of rhetorical doom :p
693 | Walter L. Newton Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:30:19am |
re: #689 Stonemason
Do you have a link for any of that info. I have been trying to find something on that for a few days now.
694 | Buck Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:33:08am |
re: #686 Stanley Sea
Remember Ryan Sorba - the gay hater @ CPAC?
I forget how old this guy is, but he's pretty young in my opinion to have being anti gay his life's calling.
People in taffeta houses shouldn't throw stones?
695 | Stonemason Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:34:51am |
re: #693 Walter L. Newton
696 | Obdicut Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:35:02am |
re: #680 Stonemason
I am arguing that taxes are a part of the cost of doing business and if they go up, something has to happen to offset that.
But that's not true.
Look, here's the math. Let's say you and I are competitors for selling widgets. We both have costs of 10 cents a widget, and sell them at a dollar a widget, making 90 cents profit per widget.
Lets say we both have a cost increase. It can be a tax, it can be increased manufacturing costs, it can be anything at all. Our costs are both now 11 cents a widget.
You can go ahead and raise the price per widget to $1.01, in order to preserve the 90 cent a widget profit. However, if I do not, and accept an 89 cent per widget profit, I may capture enough market share from you to make it worthwhile.
Say initially we both split the market evenly: A hundred people buy widgets a year. Initially, we're both making $45 a year profit. After you raise your prices, let's say that 1 person is annoyed enough to switch from your brand to mine. You now make $44.10 profit a year, and I make $45.39 profit per year.
I didn't raise my prices in regards to the tax, you did, and I'm now making more profit than you.
Does that make sense?
697 | lawhawk Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:35:17am |
re: #675 Walter L. Newton
Not just in Colorado, but NYC, and other states that are facing a fiscal abyss.
698 | Walter L. Newton Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:35:41am |
699 | Walter L. Newton Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:37:05am |
re: #697 lawhawk
Not just in Colorado, but NYC, and other states that are facing a fiscal abyss.
Why don't they just be honest and say it's a tax, not that it's for the children. So, they want to stop people from drinking sugar-free soda too? Bullshit.
700 | Stonemason Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:38:59am |
re: #696 Obdicut
yup, perfect sense, the price of widgets was too high to begin with, Big Widget was ripping off the consumer. In those cases, as I have stated a few times this morning, the rent/price will not go up. This started as a discussion on rent, not on widgets. The profit margin on rental properties to middle income Pennsylvanians (where I am) is not large enough to sustain a tax increase without a corresponding increase in rent or a cut in services to the property.
701 | Stonemason Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:39:51am |
re: #698 Walter L. Newton
CNSNews.com
Read His Lips: Obama Calls for Increasing Payroll Taxes on ‘Households’ Earning Less Than $250,000 Per Year
Tuesday, February 23, 2010
By Terence P. Jeffrey, Editor-in-Chief
(CNSNews.com) - President Obama presented a new health care plan on Monday that calls for raising the Medicare payroll tax on some households earning less than $250,000, an apparent breach of his campaign pledge not to raise taxes on families earning less than that amount. The president’s plan also calls for increasing taxes on interest, dividends, annuities, royalties and rents.
First paragraph
702 | lawhawk Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:40:15am |
re: #699 Walter L. Newton
Because the nanny staters wouldn't want it that way. And in NYC, they're pushing to limit salt intake, even though there's no consensus on whether it will do any good - and that the unintended consequences might lead to even worse health outcomes.
Frankly, I'll stick to moderation and portion control with a balanced diet.
703 | Walter L. Newton Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:40:54am |
re: #700 Stonemason
yup, perfect sense, the price of widgets was too high to begin with, Big Widget was ripping off the consumer. In those cases, as I have stated a few times this morning, the rent/price will not go up. This started as a discussion on rent, not on widgets. The profit margin on rental properties to middle income Pennsylvanians (where I am) is not large enough to sustain a tax increase without a corresponding increase in rent or a cut in services to the property.
Does ANYONE have a link to something official on the rent tax. The article linked to above doesn't talk about it, and I can't find anything about it using Google.
How did the topic come up here? Who saw what about it, or who heard about it, what's the sourcing on this rent tax in the health care bill.
What am I missing?
704 | Stonemason Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:41:32am |
and with that, I now need to go fill out those forms for the IRS so I can make sure I paid my fair share as well as somebody else's fair share
705 | Walter L. Newton Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:41:57am |
re: #701 Stonemason
CNSNews.com
Read His Lips: Obama Calls for Increasing Payroll Taxes on ‘Households’ Earning Less Than $250,000 Per Year
Tuesday, February 23, 2010
By Terence P. Jeffrey, Editor-in-Chief(CNSNews.com) - President Obama presented a new health care plan on Monday that calls for raising the Medicare payroll tax on some households earning less than $250,000, an apparent breach of his campaign pledge not to raise taxes on families earning less than that amount. The president’s plan also calls for increasing taxes on interest, dividends, annuities, royalties and rents.
First paragraph
I can't find anything official on that... it's a lone sentence without any sourcing... what is the source, anyone know?
706 | Bagua Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:42:51am |
re: #702 lawhawk
Because the nanny staters wouldn't want it that way. And in NYC, they're pushing to limit salt intake, even though there's no consensus on whether it will do any good - and that the unintended consequences might lead to even worse health outcomes.
Frankly, I'll stick to moderation and portion control with a balanced diet.
They will take my salt shaker from my cold dead hand.
707 | Obdicut Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:43:16am |
re: #700 Stonemason
yup, perfect sense, the price of widgets was too high to begin with, Big Widget was ripping off the consumer.
No, you don't understand. The price was not too high. It was a perfectly fair capitalist transaction, uncoerced. Why would you say it was 'too high'? It's widgets!
Do you understand that your assertion that companies pass costs to the lowest point is untrue? Do you understand that accepting a higher cost and not raising the price can produce higher profits?
708 | NJDhockeyfan Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:43:40am |
re: #705 Walter L. Newton
I can't find anything official on that... it's a lone sentence without any sourcing... what is the source, anyone know?
The source should be Obama's health care plan he released on Monday.
709 | Walter L. Newton Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:44:11am |
re: #708 NJDhockeyfan
The source should be Obama's health care plan he released on Monday.
Find that document... I can't.
710 | Obdicut Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:44:31am |
711 | Stonemason Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:46:14am |
re: #703 Walter L. Newton
here it is right from the white house, half-way down the page or so:
713 | Stonemason Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:46:57am |
re: #707 Obdicut
I was channeling most anti-capitalists with my too high sentiments.
714 | oldegeezr Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:47:11am |
Ah hahaha…el Rushbo just copped a plea on the Mr. Wild and Crazy Beck boy…!
Rush, to a caller critical of Beck…
”…I'm just keepin’ my powder dry!”
Typical “chicken hawk”…yah you Rush!
First a military chicken and now a political chicken...cluck, cluck, cluck...!
715 | Stonemason Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:47:34am |
re: #707 Obdicut
and yes I understand volume. I am talking about freaking rent, not widgets.
716 | Stanghazi Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:47:59am |
re: #709 Walter L. Newton
Here's the answer to your first question:
re: #596 simoom
The cutoffs in the tax promises have always been $200,000 single and $250,000 couple, and 95% of the time they communicate it correctly (most of the slip ups have involved not including both figures, or not specifying the two categories correctly).
[Link: www.politifact.com...]
[Link: www.politifact.com...]
And to your second, hopefully:
Here's a table that describes and compares the Obama plan to the House and "Senate plans
717 | Stonemason Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:49:23am |
re: #712 Obdicut
I would argue that income from rent is earned, but I do not have the time.
718 | Obdicut Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:49:51am |
re: #715 Stonemason
Okay. So you know that your previous assertion that
This is a business, profit is profit, the government is trying to take profit, the money has to come from somewhere and it will always go down to the lowest point.
is wrong, and you are now saying that your argument only applies to rents?
719 | Walter L. Newton Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:50:33am |
720 | Obdicut Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:51:32am |
re: #719 Walter L. Newton
Yeah, sorry, meant to reply to your early question.
721 | drcordell Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:59:16am |
re: #412 Walter L. Newton
And you can't see the fact that three groups of worshipers and a bunch of wannabees have created the world three greatest fairy tales.
And once again Walter goes personal. Without even knowing what my personal beliefs are. I am an Atheist. I fully recognize that all three religions are glorified fairy tales. But that doesn't change the fact that all three tales are about the same main character.
722 | drcordell Tue, Feb 23, 2010 10:02:53am |
re: #436 Walter L. Newton
Well, it seems that Dr. Cordell doesn't want to engage me on the subject, since he has not address my comments to him.
I got bogged down in a meeting, my apologies.
723 | windsagio Tue, Feb 23, 2010 10:14:10am |
re: #721 drcordell
Well there are Atheists and Atheist bigots, y'know? >>
724 | Feline Fearless Leader Tue, Feb 23, 2010 10:18:39am |
re: #625 windsagio
Bad analogy with lots and lots of sarcasm added.
Right wing = man
Left wing = woman
Congress = divorce
Both sides hate divorce and blame all the bad things about it on the other side...
/// (again)
725 | Feline Fearless Leader Tue, Feb 23, 2010 10:19:58am |
726 | oldegeezr Tue, Feb 23, 2010 10:25:58am |
Oh my…!
This is more fun than watching monkeys groom at the zoo…
el Rushbo has just threatened to turn off his “dittocam”… if his regular viewers don’t stop sending him negative emails!
He says he can understand why Palin has endorsed McCain over JDH in the Arizona senate race…but can’t for any reason, understand why Romney would also endorse McCain…?
A bit later a listener emailed him…
”Romney probably feels it’s better to have your potential opponent inside your tent pissin’ with yeh, than have him outside your tent pissin’ on You…”
Limbaugh agreed!
Ah, hahahaha…!
727 | simoom Tue, Feb 23, 2010 10:29:11am |
re: #649 NJDhockeyfan
Ah, I see the Neo-McCarthyites are hard at work attempting to root out the terrorist-sympathizers that have infiltrated the Justice Department. If only AG Holder would name all Justice lawyers whose former lawfirms represented detainees, Malkin, Hotair, Redstate and the rest of the patriotic side of the blogosphere can get started probing for Un-American activities. ///
728 | The Sanity Inspector Tue, Feb 23, 2010 10:32:40am |
Speaking of taxes, Jonathan Chait of The New Republic and a blog called Verum Serum are having a back-and-forth on the topic. Join them in progress here.
729 | garhighway Tue, Feb 23, 2010 10:34:00am |
re: #633 Obdicut
That's reasonable, but it still doesn't address the basic problem: a change in the costs of something changes the profit margin, but if a raise in costs lowers volume, it lowers profits. The assertion that companies blindly pass costs to the consumers is an assertion that they don't actually do the math on optimal price points. They do.
Case in point: airlines.
If cost increases were mechanically transferred, penny-for-penny, to consumers, that industry would look VERY different than it does now.
730 | Achilles Tang Tue, Feb 23, 2010 11:46:03am |
re: #327 RogueOne
From what I read the home had been used as collateral for more than just his carpet store. When his other business ventures went under they came for the house. The lesson here is, don't loan money to this guy.
Yes, if he could sell it for enough to cover the loan he would have. If he didn't it was because there were other liens from other lenders on the property.
This guy is a liar.
731 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 1:09:03pm |
re: #343 irish rose
Thought I'd come over this morning to check out the tone, in the hope that the bullying situation here at LGF has improved.
I can see that nothing has changed... such a shame.
A very good morning to the people on this thread who aren't behaving like assholes.
Mandy, I lost your email address and I'd appreciate it if you'd drop me an email when you have time.
Have a martyr cookie, begorrah!
732 | BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Feb 23, 2010 4:10:48pm |
re: #392 windsagio
actually, its fun to see how she's managed to modify behavior once people started to call her on it. Its always good to see change for the better :)
Yup!
733 | irish rose Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:36:13pm |
re: #731 Cato the Elder
Go fuck yourself, moron.
734 | Jimmah Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:37:01pm |
re: #343 irish rose
The Irish Rose/2.0 convergence continues...
Irish Rose : Jimmah, iceweasel, LudwigVanQuixote, Cato the Elder and the new liberal posters are horrid bullies who have ruined LGF! The only decent posters left are people like Spare O lake, Mandy Manners and Bagua.
2.0 (The stalker blog) : Jimmah, iceweasel, LudwigVanQuixote, Cato the Elder and the new liberal posters are horrid bullies who have ruined LGF! The only decent posters left are people like Spare O lake, Mandy Manners and Bagua.
Well played IR!
Guess what? Any time you float on here with your little sermon about what has gone wrong with LGF, I'll be pointing this out.
735 | BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Feb 23, 2010 5:40:33pm |
re: #245 Cato the Elder
That's right, bring out the "M" word.
The last resort of a woman with no argument.
Actually, it's the first resort of a woman with no argument, and the last resort of women confronted with genuine misogyny.
Cato the Elder is no misogynist. :)
736 | Cato the Elder Tue, Feb 23, 2010 6:25:03pm |
re: #733 irish rose
Go fuck yourself, moron.
About the level I would expect from a friend of Mandy's.
So sorry your little sainthood project didn't work out here. Maybe if you completely turn on LGF you'll get a short-lived traffic boost at your own blog from the stalkers. They were always the ones you preferred talking to, anyway.
Ta!