Daily Kos To Sue Research 2000 Polling

Politics • Views: 4,717

Kudos to Markos Moulitsas for doing the right thing when he discovered that some poll results from the firm Research 2000 may have been fraudulent: More on Research 2000.

I have just published a report by three statistics wizards showing, quite convincingly, that the weekly Research 2000 State of the Nation poll we ran the past year and a half was likely bunk.

Since the moment Mark Grebner, Michael Weissman, and Jonathan Weissman approached me, I took their concerns seriously and cooperated fully with their investigation. I also offered to run the results on Daily Kos provided that they 1) fully documented each claim in detail, 2) got that documentation peer reviewed by disinterested third parties, and 3) gave Research 2000 an opportunity to respond. By the end of last week, they had accomplished the first two items on that list. I held publication of the report until today, because I didn’t want to partake in a cliche Friday Bad News Dump. This is serious business, and I wasn’t going to bury it over a weekend.

We contracted with Research 2000 to conduct polling and to provide us with the results of their surveys. Based on the report of the statisticians, it’s clear that we did not get what we paid for. We were defrauded by Research 2000, and while we don’t know if some or all of the data was fabricated or manipulated beyond recognition, we know we can’t trust it. Meanwhile, Research 2000 has refused to offer any explanation. Early in this process, I asked for and they offered to provide us with their raw data for independent analysis — which could potentially exculpate them. That was two weeks ago, and despite repeated promises to provide us that data, Research 2000 ultimately refused to do so. At one point, they claimed they couldn’t deliver them because their computers were down and they had to work out of a Kinkos office. Research 2000 was delivered a copy of the report early Monday morning, and though they quickly responded and promised a full response, once again the authors of the report heard nothing more.

While the investigation didn’t look at all of Research 2000 polling conducted for us, fact is I no longer have any confidence in any of it, and neither should anyone else. I ask that all poll tracking sites remove any Research 2000 polls commissioned by us from their databases. I hereby renounce any post we’ve written based exclusively on Research 2000 polling.

This has predictably led to a chorus from the right wing blogosphere (and a lot of gloating), that one of the major findings of Research 2000 — the idea that a very large percentage of Republicans are Birthers — is completely bogus and should be considered debunked.

Uh, no.

While Research 2000’s methods may be questionable, they were far from the only pollster that posted results confirming that Birthers are very prevalent on the right wing and in the Republican Party.

Public Policy Polling is one source that confirms this: Republican Conspiracy Theorists. And just last month a Washington Post/ABC News poll found that nearly a third of Republicans and tea partiers doubt Obama’s citizenship.

And I can’t help wondering if any right wing blog would have been so forthcoming, if they had posted bogus poll results. In their current state of paranoia and hyper-partisanship, I seriously doubt it.

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130 comments
1 lostlakehiker  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:03:47pm

Bad evidence for correct claims always muddies the water. That's why we check things, and check them again. Being right, and proving you're right, are not the same thing.

2 Achilles Tang  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:06:25pm

Their computers were down and they had to work out of a Kinkos office?

Even if true, that would not be an excuse most people out of high school would give to a client.

3 brookly red  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:07:17pm

/OH, I fucked up 10 years ago and finally got caught... damn who can I sue?

4 Summer Seale  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:07:22pm
And I can’t help wondering if any right wing blog would have been so forthcoming, if they had posted bogus poll results. In their current state of paranoia and hyper-partisanship, I seriously doubt it.

No, because by and large they run in the Creationist crowd and they don't actually understand scientific and rational concepts such as "evidence", "peer review", "verifiable", "falsifiable", "corroborate", and "intellectual honesty". Those are concepts which are fundamentally necessary to understand that what they currently believe in as a dogma is untenable and, not to put too fine a point on it, full of shit.

5 darthstar  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:08:37pm

Markos takes his poll numbers seriously. Coming forward and explaining why he is no longer working with Research 2000 took guts. And while I know a lot of people write him off as a loony liberal, he is in fact a Reagan Democrat. Quite moderate in his views.

Kudos to you, Charles for acknowledging Markos' actions for what they are...the right thing to do.

6 Buck  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:09:27pm

I want my points back. I lost a lot of points saying that the numbers looked suspicious.

It sucks to be right, but still lose.

7 tradewind  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:10:05pm

re: #4 Summer
It's not quite so simple.... when your polls show, for example, ' Martha Coakley in a landslide ', and you end up with egg on your face, eventually you gotta do something. It was starting to look silly, predicting ten points above for Democrats in every race when their poll was the only one doing so.
It's not that he wasn't getting news that he liked at the time.

8 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:10:10pm

re: #6 Buck

I want my points back. I lost a lot of points saying that the numbers looked suspicious.

It sucks to be right, but still lose.

Did you bother reading my whole post?

9 Summer Seale  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:11:12pm

re: #7 tradewind

It's not quite so simple... when your polls show, for example, ' Martha Coakley in a landslide ', and you end up with egg on your face, eventually you gotta do something. It was starting to look silly, predicting ten points above for Democrats in every race when their poll was the only one doing so.
It's not that he wasn't getting news that he liked at the time.

I was talking about right-wing blogs, not about Kos. =)

10 Buck  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:11:38pm

re: #4 Summer

No, because by and large they run in the Creationist crowd and they don't actually understand scientific and rational concepts such as "evidence", "peer review", "verifiable", "falsifiable", "corroborate", and "intellectual honesty". Those are concepts which are fundamentally necessary to understand that what they currently believe in as a dogma is untenable and, not to put too fine a point on it, full of shit.

Nice generalizations. remember that not long ago THIS was considered a right wing blog.

Sure, everyone on the right are stupid...

11 Buck  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:12:38pm

re: #8 Charles

Did you bother reading my whole post?

Of course I did....

I said that the data was suspicious... I did the math, and it didn't add up.

For that I took a beating.

12 tradewind  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:14:20pm

re: #9 Summer
I get that, but I was responding to the quote at the top of your post.

13 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:14:23pm

re: #10 Buck

Nice generalizations. remember that not long ago THIS was considered a right wing blog.

Sure, everyone on the right are stupid...

Sorry, Buck, but the right wing blogosphere has demonstrated over and over that they have no ethics. When a dim religious fanatic like Gateway Pundit can publicly accuse me of being a child molester, and NOBODY even blinks an eye at it, that should tell you something about how much they value ethics and honesty.

And don't get me started or I'll pull out dozens of other examples for you.

14 brookly red  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:14:29pm

re: #10 Buck

Nice generalizations. remember that not long ago THIS was considered a right wing blog.

Sure, everyone on the right are stupid...

Interesting point. Shit happens, things change.

15 webevintage  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:15:10pm

I wish everyone who pays a pollster would be willing to to look very deeply into how they come by their numbers, but the truth is the reason Research 2000 was questioned was because from the beginning Markos had them be fairly transparent which allowed problems to be noticed.

16 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:15:11pm

re: #10 Buck

Nice generalizations. remember that not long ago THIS was considered a right wing blog.

Not by me.

17 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:15:19pm

I'll never like the Kos (their freakout at Israel over the Gaza Flotilla confirmed that for me), but credit is due to Moulitsas for busting Research 2000. I've got no sympathy for fraudsters.

18 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:16:21pm
And I can’t help wondering if any right wing blog would have been so forthcoming, if they had posted bogus poll results. In their current state of paranoia and hyper-partisanship, I seriously doubt it.

From Hot Air.....

Update (AP): I’ve linked Kos’s R2000 polls on HA before so I owe our readers a mea culpa for having passed along (possibly) bad info. Mea culpa!


A rare apology from a right wing blog but of course he's only apologizing because it was a lefty source. How about apologizing for all the bogus Rassmussen polls they post all the time? (including today). How about the crap from Fox News? No apology?

19 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:16:50pm

P.S. Not only did nobody on the right blink at Gateway Pundit's outrageous, disgusting smears, a lot of them actually cheered him on.

So don't talk to me about right wing blogosphere ethics. They have none.

20 webevintage  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:17:28pm

re: #10 Buck

Nice generalizations. remember that not long ago THIS was considered a right wing blog.

Sure, everyone on the right are stupid...

Of course everyone on the right is not stupid....but if you think Obama is not really American or that he wanted the gulf disaster to happen or that the earth is 6000 years old you just might be.
Rightwing and stupid that is....

21 darthstar  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:17:41pm

re: #11 Buck

Of course I did...

I said that the data was suspicious... I did the math, and it didn't add up.

For that I took a beating.

Nah...you took a beating because you were being a dick. Has nothing to do with your math.

22 tradewind  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:18:02pm

Re the litigation, as Spongebob says,
' Good luck with that '.
Maybe he'll be able to get some sort of a settlement, depending on the pockets of the polling firm.

23 Buck  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:18:16pm

re: #13 Charles

Sorry, Buck, but the right wing blogosphere has demonstrated over and over that they have no ethics. When a dim religious fanatic like Gateway Pundit can accuse me of being a child molester, and NOBODY even blinks an eye at it, that should tell you something about how much they value ethics and honesty.

And don't get me started or I'll pull out dozens of other examples for you.

I remember what the left sites accused you of being...

AND when anyone attacks you many of us do more than bat an eye. I have personally gone to battle for you many times.

I don't want to get you started, but the left "sucked less" and you know it.

24 Summer Seale  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:19:04pm

re: #10 Buck

Nice generalizations. remember that not long ago THIS was considered a right wing blog.

Sure, everyone on the right are stupid...

re: #16 Charles

Not by me.

Ditto.

I never considered Charles to be "on the Right". The only people who were shocked when he "broke with the Right" after their horrific conduct were people who never understood him in the first place.

25 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:19:05pm

re: #16 Charles

Not by me.

True, but that's how many people who knew about LGF thought of it until last year.

26 darthstar  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:19:16pm

re: #22 tradewind

Re the litigation, as Spongebob says,
' Good luck with that '.
Maybe he'll be able to get some sort of a settlement, depending on the pockets of the polling firm.

If they're working out of a Kinko's, I'm guessing they have the financial flexibility of "I'll pay $100,000 for the impossible" Breitbart.

27 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:19:32pm

re: #18 Killgore Trout

A rare apology from a right wing blog but of course he's only apologizing because it was a lefty source. How about apologizing for all the bogus Rassmussen polls they post all the time? (including today). How about the crap from Fox News? No apology?

He's apologizing because he knows it will play into the paranoia. Nothing noble about it.

28 brookly red  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:19:52pm

re: #17 Dark_Falcon

I'll never like the Kos (their freakout at Israel over the Gaza Flotilla confirmed that for me), but credit is due to Moulitsas for busting Research 2000. I've got no sympathy for fraudsters.

I see it as prostitution. It is a supply and demand thing, KOS (the john) wanted numbers, Research 2000 (the ho) serviced the client... I am not willing to let the john walk free.

29 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:20:20pm

re: #17 Dark_Falcon

I'll never like the Kos (their freakout at Israel over the Gaza Flotilla confirmed that for me), but credit is due to Moulitsas for busting Research 2000. I've got no sympathy for fraudsters.

I agree. Kos is still a creep but he's at least fairly honest. Right wing blogs used to issue corrections when they jumped to a faulty conclusion or posted a bogus story. It used to happen all the time but not any more. It's very rare for a right wing blog to admit a story was bogus these days.

30 darthstar  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:20:29pm

re: #25 Dark_Falcon

True, but that's how many people who knew about LGF thought of it until last year.

I knew about this place for years. But it was the 'break with the right' that got me to actually spend some time here and realize not everyone was a wing-nut.
present company excluded :-)
/

31 tradewind  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:20:36pm

re: #5 darthstar
Yeah, Reagan would say ' Eff the troops '. Brothers under the skin./

32 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:21:40pm

re: #23 Buck

I remember what the left sites accused you of being...

AND when anyone attacks you many of us do more than bat an eye. I have personally gone to battle for you many times.

I don't want to get you started, but the left "sucked less" and you know it.

The vitriol and hatred I've experienced from the right wing has absolutely no parallel on the left. Even when LGF was regularly mocking the far left, none of the push-back even came close to the sick hatred being spewed at me now from all sides of the right wing blogosphere.

Not that I really give a shit. But those are the facts.

33 webevintage  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:22:31pm

Reaserch 2000 has sent a cease and desist letter to FiveThirtyEight:
[Link: www.fivethirtyeight.com...]

a bit more on Research 2000 from Nate Silver
[Link: www.fivethirtyeight.com...]

[Link: www.fivethirtyeight.com...]

The one thing I liked about their polls was that they gave not only age, sex, political leanings of the respondents they also gave some results by location.
I don't know if any other pollster goes that much in depth....
Too bad their information sucked.

34 darthstar  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:22:42pm

re: #31 tradewind

Yeah, Reagan would say ' Eff the troops '. Brothers under the skin./

Those were Blackwater mercs, not troops, you're referring to. Yes, their deaths are sad, I agree, but I also think we shouldn't have had 20,000 hired guns in Iraq on top of our troop deployment.

35 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:24:59pm

re: #27 Charles

He's apologizing because he knows it will play into the paranoia. Nothing noble about it.

Nate Silver has busted Rasmussen doing similar things. Nary a peep.

36 Gus  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:25:38pm

re: #6 Buck

I want my points back. I lost a lot of points saying that the numbers looked suspicious.

It sucks to be right, but still lose.

This isn't about you.

37 webevintage  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:26:08pm

re: #31 tradewind

Yeah, Reagan would say ' Eff the troops '. Brothers under the skin./

When did guys working for Blackwater become "troops"?
and didn't he apologize?

(not that we should not care when they get killed, but they are not part of our military and are not "troops".)

38 brookly red  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:26:14pm

re: #35 Fozzie Bear

Nate Silver has busted Rasmussen doing similar things. Nary a peep.

pollsters are whores, you get what you pay for.

39 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:27:15pm

re: #28 brookly red

I see it as prostitution. It is a supply and demand thing, KOS (the john) wanted numbers, Research 2000 (the ho) serviced the client... I am not willing to let the john walk free.

Yeah, that perfectly explains the lawsuit. /

Kos was defrauded, Research 2000 was the defrauding party.

40 darthstar  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:27:22pm

re: #35 Fozzie Bear

Nate Silver has busted Rasmussen doing similar things. Nary a peep.

Nate Silver is someone I wish I knew personally...then I'd play the baseball parlay cards Tahoe.

41 Racer X  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:27:53pm

re: #39 Fozzie Bear

Yeah, that perfectly explains the lawsuit. /

Kos was defrauded, Research 2000 was the defrauding party.

Allegedly.

42 Buck  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:28:39pm

Nice of Kos to come clean... but look at the conditions he put on the investigation. He could have started with ' provide us with the results of their surveys", and saved someone a lot of time and effort.

I just have to do a google search with site:dailykos.com "helen thomas was right" to be reminded of the extreme antisemitism still on that site.

Charles... you would trash any site that allowed the likes of Stacy McCain to post, but you seem to be giving the DKOS group a pass for all the continued anti semetic stuff.

Please don't ban me for this... I promise to shut up now....

43 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:29:06pm

re: #11 Buck

Of course I did...

I said that the data was suspicious... I did the math, and it didn't add up.

For that I took a beating.

I had questions about those polls too, at different times, but I don't recall taking a beating for it. Disagreements, sure. A beating, no.

44 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:29:10pm

re: #41 Racer X

Allegedly.

Well, it has already been proven effectively beyond statistical possibility that the results of those polls are fraudulent. Are you suggesting that Kos wanted it that way?

45 brookly red  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:29:14pm

re: #39 Fozzie Bear

Yeah, that perfectly explains the lawsuit. /

Kos was defrauded, Research 2000 was the defrauding party.

research told them what they wanted to hear & got paid for it. OOHHH Daddy!

46 tradewind  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:29:15pm

re: #34 darthstar
I don't care if they were Huguenots, they were fighting alongside and dying with our soldiers, and it was a heinous thing to say. No, is, because he's never taken it back, given the chance. It's fine if you like Markos... but calling him a ' Reagan democrat ' is an insult to Reagan democrats everywhere.

47 Gus  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:29:27pm

re: #42 Buck

[deleted]

48 Virginia Plain  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:29:52pm

I'm glad that pollsters are losing out on poll subjects, as more and more people are moving away from regular land lines to VoIP and cell phones. I don't like their methods, and they can just go to hell.

49 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:30:11pm

I see. And so a wingnut conspiracy theory is born. "Kos is guilty too". Sans any evidence.

Paranoia.

50 Gus  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:30:22pm

Damn. What the heck is going on tonight. It's like a mini insurrection.

51 Racer X  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:30:48pm

re: #44 Fozzie Bear

Well, it has already been proven effectively beyond statistical possibility that the results of those polls are fraudulent. Are you suggesting that Kos wanted it that way?

Yes that's exactly what I'm suggesting.

Wait, no it's not. I'm saying if he's going to sue, the court will decide.

52 The Curmudgeon  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:30:57pm

This is the problem when blogs use other blogs for information. That's always risky. I routinely ridicule stuff I find in creationist blogs, but I never rely on blogs -- even good ones -- for authoritative information. I miss out on a lot of fun that way, but I also avoid a lot of problems.

53 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:31:20pm

re: #42 Buck

Please don't ban me for this... I promise to shut up now...

Oh, please.

54 tradewind  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:32:50pm

re: #51 Racer X
It's kind of difficult to accept that they believed the results of polls that were so far out of line with everyone else's, even if they were showing what they wanted to see. Again..... Martha Coakley. Just saying.
When you're going to be found out, it's always better to out yourself first.

55 brookly red  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:33:01pm

re: #49 Fozzie Bear

I see. And so a wingnut conspiracy theory is born. "Kos is guilty too". Sans any evidence.

Paranoia.

what conspiracy? they got off on publishing the false data the made them feel good. not paranoia, prostitution they got what they paid for and now when exposed blame the whore.

56 albusteve  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:33:34pm

where two fools met...but Kos deserves a break here

57 Sionainn  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:33:35pm

Sharron Angle interview occurring right now. [Link: www.mynews3.com...]

58 austin_blue  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:33:40pm

Adios, brethren an sistren. Dinner and a movie with SWMBO.

59 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:33:51pm

re: #55 brookly red

what conspiracy? they got off on publishing the false data the made them feel good. not paranoia, prostitution they got what they paid for and now when exposed blame the whore.

And you say this based on what, precisely?

60 darthstar  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:34:21pm

re: #46 tradewind

I don't care if they were Huguenots, they were fighting alongside and dying with our soldiers, and it was a heinous thing to say. No, is, because he's never taken it back, given the chance. It's fine if you like Markos... but calling him a ' Reagan democrat ' is an insult to Reagan democrats everywhere.

But he was. He was in the army in the 80s and was a Reagan supporter.

61 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:34:33pm

re: #52 The Curmudgeon

This is the problem when blogs use other blogs for information. That's always risky. I routinely ridicule stuff I find in creationist blogs, but I never rely on blogs -- even good ones -- for authoritative information. I miss out on a lot of fun that way, but I also avoid a lot of problems.

I will say this for LGF . . .
The very best information anywhere on the oil spill was here, what with AustinBlue and Bagua's input and tireless research efforts.

I believe some of the smartest people around congregate right here. And
I do believe this is one blog that can be trusted for authoritative information.

62 Summer Seale  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:34:35pm

re: #42 Buck

Honestly, I don't see Charles giving anyone a pass. I see him pointing out something he happens to agree with: coming clean on something. I didn't see it as him agreeing with some past statements which Markos made.

I completely disagree with the statements which Markos made as well in those cases, and with a lot of the viewpoints expressed on his site. But in some cases, I do agree with Markos - I can't deny it, and I'm not going to.

63 brookly red  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:35:18pm

re: #59 Fozzie Bear

And you say this based on what, precisely?

oh please they a. paid for the service & b. sure did like it at the time...

64 albusteve  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:35:34pm

re: #58 austin_blue

Adios, brethren an sistren. Dinner and a movie with SWMBO.

and best to you my liberal amigo...go forth and conquer

65 Batman  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:36:02pm

I saw Silver's take on it earlier and apparently he suspected R2k for fraud but wasn't confident enough to take them to task. He caught Strategic Vision straight up making all of their poll data up in the last election and while they pushed back against him, I still don't know what became of that. R2k sent a cease and desist letter to him today, which is weird because he's simply reported that their numbers look statistically fishy, after Kos broke the story, while Kos and their three stats consultants are the ones claiming fraud.

66 darthstar  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:36:30pm

re: #57 Sionainn

Sharron Angle interview occurring right now. [Link: www.mynews3.com...]

Wow...I just watched "The Handmaid's Tale" again last night, and I could swear she's wearing the same outfit the wives wore in that movie.

67 Sionainn  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:37:17pm

re: #66 darthstar

Wow...I just watched "The Handmaid's Tale" again last night, and I could swear she's wearing the same outfit the wives wore in that movie.

I'll have to see if I can find a picture because I haven't seen that.

68 Cato the Elder  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:38:16pm

The owner of a tiny independent movie theater that I visited last year in a jerkwater town in Michigan during my summer road trip told me with complete conviction that Obama is an evil furriner who is hiding his birth certificate to avoid impeachment.

Now, where would such a man come up with that idea?

69 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:38:31pm

re: #63 brookly red

oh please they a. paid for the service & b. sure did like it at the time...

... therefore they were participating in a conspiracy to first defraud the public, after which Kos decided to turn on his co-conspirator?

I just want to make sure I understand the premise of this conspiracy theory correctly.

70 Batman  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:38:46pm

re: #63 brookly red

So your argument is basically R2k came up with results that Kos more or less wanted, and since you disagree with Kos on nearly everything, it's perfectly legit because Kos can't possibly want truth and clarity over bullshit? Am I getting this right? How old are you?

71 tradewind  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:39:25pm

re: #60 darthstar
Wow... a child prodigy, since he was born in 1971. Of course, Hillary was a Goldwater Girl in the Sixties, too, so stranger things have happened.

72 albusteve  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:39:56pm

re: #68 Cato the Elder

The owner of a tiny independent movie theater that I visited last year in a jerkwater town in Michigan during my summer road trip told me with complete conviction that Obama is an evil furriner who is hiding his birth certificate to avoid impeachment.

Now, where would such a man come up with that idea?

good point...there is a lot in that question

73 The Curmudgeon  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:40:19pm

re: #61 reine.de.tout

I will say this for LGF . . .I do believe this is one blog that can be trusted for authoritative information.

Yes, but even with reliable blogs, I may mention what they say, but I still check sources, and link to them. Even then I have embarrassing moments, but at least they're rare.

74 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:40:35pm

re: #42 Buck

Nice of Kos to come clean... but look at the conditions he put on the investigation. He could have started with ' provide us with the results of their surveys", and saved someone a lot of time and effort.

I just have to do a google search with site:dailykos.com "helen thomas was right" to be reminded of the extreme antisemitism still on that site.

Charles... you would trash any site that allowed the likes of Stacy McCain to post, but you seem to be giving the DKOS group a pass for all the continued anti semetic stuff.

Please don't ban me for this... I promise to shut up now...

No offense, Buck, but Charles didn't give that asshole Moulitsas a pass when his site did it's anti-semitism spew a month ago. It was discussed heavily here and at no time did Charles call such talk anything but hateful and wrong. But when you're right, you're right. Charles would even credit Glenn Beck if Beck managed to break a relevant and legitimate news story. In that he's the same as he's always been: pro-truth, anti-idiot.

75 Four More Tears  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:41:13pm

re: #23 Buck

I don't want to get you started, but the left "sucked less" and you know it.

Oh my how high the bar has been set...

76 brookly red  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:41:16pm

re: #69 Fozzie Bear

re: #70 nonsense

look no different the when you bash Fox... polls do not occur in nature, they are commissioned. you get what you pay for, and that is that.

77 brookly red  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:42:55pm

re: #70 nonsense

So your argument is basically R2k came up with results that Kos more or less wanted, and since you disagree with Kos on nearly everything, it's perfectly legit because Kos can't possibly want truth and clarity over bullshit? Am I getting this right? How old are you?

guess bitch?

78 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:44:34pm

Wow, Angle is out of her mind.

79 Bagua  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:44:51pm

re: #61 reine.de.tout

I will say this for LGF . . .
The very best information anywhere on the oil spill was here, what with AustinBlue and Bagua's input and tireless research efforts.

I believe some of the smartest people around congregate right here. And
I do believe this is one blog that can be trusted for authoritative information.

Thank you for that reine.

80 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:45:22pm

re: #61 reine.de.tout

I will say this for LGF . . .
The very best information anywhere on the oil spill was here, what with AustinBlue and Bagua's input and tireless research efforts.

I believe some of the smartest people around congregate right here. And
I do believe this is one blog that can be trusted for authoritative information.

And, some of the nicest people.
*waves at Reine*

81 joest73  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:45:34pm

Who didn't question the sampling and weighting of those polls? They had to know earlier than this that those polls were overly weighted to get the results that they (Daily Kos) wanted.

The timing of this announcement seems a little suspect too....maybe Markos wanted to try to not be on the Time's most overrated blogs list for 2011.

Markos will need to find another slightly less slanted polling firm so he can remain a guest on the Keith Olbermann and Rachel Maddow shows. How else are you going to fill up two hours of snarky New York liberal elitist chit-chat?

82 brookly red  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:45:42pm

OK the KOS kids are in the house & they are a protected class, so lemmie go now and let them spin... spin... spin...

83 tradewind  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:46:10pm

re: #76 brookly red
If there's any justice, Rasmussen will be busted next, just to even the playing field. They're showing a generic six point Republican spread in Congress, so it can't come soon enough./

84 Sionainn  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:47:03pm

re: #78 Charles

Wow, Angle is out of her mind.

Yes, she is. I'm just shaking my head.

85 darthstar  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:48:02pm

re: #71 tradewind

Wow... a child prodigy, since he was born in 1971. Of course, Hillary was a Goldwater Girl in the Sixties, too, so stranger things have happened.

Hm...could be I'm wrong? It's happened before. But I could swear I read he was in the army, and that he was a Reagan supporter...Damn...you got me.

86 cronus  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:48:05pm

R2K is starting to push back:

Del Ali, president of Research 2000 in Olney, Md., said he could not respond to the specific allegations Tuesday and referred questions to his attorney, who did not return a call seeking comment.

“I can tell you, we’re fine. What we’re going to reveal, that will be the end of the Daily Kos,” Ali said. “I can say, it has to do with people owing money.”

87 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:49:31pm

re: #80 Floral Giraffe

And, some of the nicest people.
*waves at Reine*

Indeed!
*waves back*

88 tradewind  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:51:12pm

re: #87 reine.de.tout
How's life in the trenches, Reine?
Is BP treating the offshore workers right?

89 RogueOne  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:52:12pm

A lot of people seem to be giving Kos credit that belongs to others, 538 as an example. They've been pounding on them for months. Kos blew the lid on them because he didn't have a choice. I wonder if there will be an addendum to the book he has coming out.

90 tradewind  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:54:06pm

re: #85 darthstar
Source says he enlisted in 1989, so yes. But Reagan was running when he was nine years old, so maybe he was just a very, very enthusiastic child.

91 prairiefire  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:57:28pm

re: #83 tradewind

Trade, Scott Rasmussen's polls are all over the place. How can Rand Paul be ahead by 20 in one poll and then 6 in Rassie's next poll?

92 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:58:01pm

re: #88 tradewind

How's life in the trenches, Reine?
Is BP treating the offshore workers right?

no.
Slow to pay claims, verryy slooow.
And paying pennies on the dollar.
And hiring out-of-state workers instead of the 13,000 looking for jobs in Louisiana.
We are not happy with BP.

93 webevintage  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:58:32pm

I'm kind of amazed that Markos is the bad guy in this to some of you because he paid for a service and was a victim of fraud.

(I go to DK once a week since the site seemed to get infected with liberal ODS...does that make me a Kos Kid?)

94 prairiefire  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 6:59:09pm

re: #81 joest73

Rachel Maddow is a fine American.

95 prairiefire  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 7:00:36pm

re: #77 brookly red

guess bitch?

I'm guessing between 39 and 44.

96 tradewind  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 7:03:51pm

re: #92 reine.de.tout
Sucks.... I hope it improves quickly.
Ya'll are in my prayers.

97 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 7:04:35pm

re: #95 prairiefire

I'm guessing between 39 and 44.

i thought 35, and then he copped to something older a few weeks ago.

98 prairiefire  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 7:05:37pm

re: #97 Aceofwhat?

Right.

99 Bob with one O  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 7:08:11pm

And I can’t help wondering if any right wing blog would have been so forthcoming,

Not so long ago it would have been LGF.

Ironic.

100 Ericus58  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 7:08:13pm

re: #50 Gus 802

Damn. What the heck is going on tonight. It's like a mini insurrection.

Someone told me that you guys and gals had comfy chairs and cold drinks in the afternoon/evening - I thought I'd take ya up on that!!

Actually, I have some free time to spend.
I had a gaming account hacked over the weekend so while my wife spends time with family/friends around the country (and Brazil and Aussieland), I'm relaxing with my friends here.

101 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 7:10:30pm

re: #98 prairiefire

Right.

Then again, 35 is my standard guess for everyone but Cato and Ojoe...and Ludwig. I'm really not good at this game...

102 Ericus58  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 7:11:20pm

re: #68 Cato the Elder

The owner of a tiny independent movie theater that I visited last year in a jerkwater town in Michigan during my summer road trip told me with complete conviction that Obama is an evil furriner who is hiding his birth certificate to avoid impeachment.

Now, where would such a man come up with that idea?

That wouldn't have been Battle Creek would it?!
Not that I didn't spend 17 years there....

103 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 7:14:13pm

re: #99 Bob with one O

What the heck does that mean?

104 prairiefire  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 7:15:07pm

re: #103 Dark_Falcon

What the heck does that mean?

A subtle dis, methinks.

105 tradewind  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 7:16:22pm

re: #35 Fozzie Bear
If he's really ' busted ' them, there would be more than a peep. There'd be gloating, and it'd be a news item.
Wonder how KO and company are treating this story tonight? Anyone heard?

106 tradewind  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 7:17:46pm

re: #68 Cato the Elder
Oh, wait 'til someone bends your ear about his and Michelle's law licenses. Big scoop there.//

107 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 7:17:52pm

re: #105 tradewind

If he's really ' busted ' them, there would be more than a peep. There'd be gloating, and it'd be a news item.
Wonder how KO and company are treating this story tonight? Anyone heard?

Nate Silver is an extremely credible source on this issue.

108 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 7:18:20pm

re: #99 Bob with one O

huh?

109 tradewind  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 7:18:57pm

re: #107 Fozzie Bear
Then maybe CNN, etc, think it's time to give the Republicans a break./

110 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 7:23:24pm

So what poll results did Research 2000 actually fudge or lie about?
Are there some real examples of fraud or is this just a bunch of theoretical gobbledygook to give Kos ammo for a pre-emptive law suit?
Does Kos owe Research 2000 any unpaid fees?

111 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 7:26:31pm

re: #104 prairiefire

A subtle dis, methinks.

Most likely, but I withhold judgment pending an answer. If non comes, I'll remember him (or try to) as someone to keep an eye on.

112 Buck  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 7:30:23pm

re: #111 Dark_Falcon

Most likely, but I withhold judgment pending an answer. If non comes, I'll remember him (or try to) as someone to keep an eye on.

I shouldn't speak for anyone, but I said something similar. It seems simple to me,

That not long ago, LGF would have been "the Right Wing Blog" that "would have been so forthcoming".

113 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 7:30:54pm

re: #112 Buck

I shouldn't speak for anyone, but I said something similar. It seems simple to me,

That not long ago, LGF would have been "the Right Wing Blog" that "would have been so forthcoming".

No, it would not.

114 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 7:33:15pm

re: #111 Dark_Falcon

Most likely, but I withhold judgment pending an answer. If non comes, I'll remember him (or try to) as someone to keep an eye on.

yep. right there with you.

115 Buck  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 7:33:41pm

re: #113 Charles

No, it would not.

Oh, jeez.... I don't mean that LGF was an actual Right Wing Blog... but that is was labled as such.

You know it was, you saw it happen. Historically, MANY TIMES I pointed out that it was not so....that your views were more complicated than right and left.

However that does not stop it from being a bit ironic, that it would have been viewed that way.

116 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 7:35:01pm

re: #115 Buck

Oh, jeez... I don't mean that LGF was an actual Right Wing Blog... but that is was labled as such.

You know it was, you saw it happen. Historically, MANY TIMES I pointed out that it was not so...that your views were more complicated than right and left.

However that does not stop it from being a bit ironic, that it would have been viewed that way.

I couldn't care less how it "would have been viewed" and the idea that I would ever deliberately mislead people is really insulting.

117 Buck  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 7:37:30pm

OH come on now....

Down dinging me for giving a thought on what someone was trying to say?

118 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 7:37:56pm

Looks like Kos allegations of bias against Research 2000 are not new:
[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

119 Buck  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 7:39:04pm

re: #116 Charles

I couldn't care less how it "would have been viewed" and the idea that I would ever deliberately mislead people is really insulting.

That you would be forthcoming.....

I didn't say you would deliberately mislead anyone. I said that you would be forthcoming if you discovered the same think Kos did..

120 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 7:39:49pm

re: #115 Buck

I'm not sure its ironic, but its unfortunate that people consistently feel the need to try to shoehorn Charles into premade categories. I'm not saying you do that, though. I know you don't and you've made clear on this thread that you actually took the time to see Charles as he is.

121 What, me worry?  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 7:40:15pm

re: #110 Spare O'Lake

So what poll results did Research 2000 actually fudge or lie about?
Are there some real examples of fraud or is this just a bunch of theoretical gobbledygook to give Kos ammo for a pre-emptive law suit?
Does Kos owe Research 2000 any unpaid fees?

If you click through the links above, you'll see the methodology.

122 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 7:45:51pm

re: #117 Buck

OH come on now...

Down dinging me for giving a thought on what someone was trying to say?

i didn't, but you'll note that it didn't exactly come out of your mouth in an easily understandable fashion;)

123 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 7:46:13pm

re: #121 marjoriemoon

If you click through the links above, you'll see the methodology.

What I'm looking for is some info about whether their improper methodology has, in Kos' opinion, been used to intentionally skew polls towards a particular political agenda.

124 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 9:36:05pm

re: #28 brookly red

I see it as prostitution. It is a supply and demand thing, KOS (the john) wanted numbers, Research 2000 (the ho) serviced the client... I am not willing to let the john walk free.

ahh, pushback against the blog, lol

125 Varek Raith  Wed, Jun 30, 2010 12:04:10am

re: #42 Buck

VICTIM CARD!

126 ClaudeMonet  Wed, Jun 30, 2010 12:04:20am

re: #78 Charles

Wow, Angle is out of her mind.

You are assuming she has a mind out of which to be.

My view--Kos wanted numbers. Research2000 knew what kind of numbers Kos wanted and supplied them. The numbers were published verbatim by Kos. They were way wrong. Kos is right to be pissed at Research2000 and IMO right to sue, but must bear some of the blame for not verifying in any way. Fact-checking is dull work and often thankless, but it can help an organization avoid embarrassment and humiliation.

Kos may hate the Republicans, but he should follow the advice of The Great Communicator, Ronald Reagan--

"Trust, but verify."

127 Age Of Freedom  Wed, Jun 30, 2010 9:29:58pm

r: #23 Bck

rmmbr wht th lft sts ccsd y f bng...

ND whn nyn ttcks y mny f s d mr thn bt n y. hv prsnlly gn t bttl fr y mny tms.

dn't wnt t gt y strtd, bt th lft "sckd lss" nd y knw t.

Bck,
'v bn fllwng th chng LGF wnt thrgh shrtly ftr bm tk ffc, bt whl dmr th fct LGF xpss bd crznss n th rght, prsnlly thnk Chrls gt thrghly dstrctd. Why dn't w s sm f th vrflwng vl nd sfl dcy Chrls sd t rlntlssly cvr frm slmsts r dmb gnrnt lftsts ll crss th glb / S, s bynd m.

Wht mks m wndr s hw ll ths whm Chrls sd t ttck nd b rplsd by dchbgs, sch s Mrks Mltss, ll f sddn gt kds, pt n th shldr, wth thr spcl cmcl tg nms qtly rmvd.

Chrls, M, f Mrks "Scrw Thm!" Mltss hrd-swtchd sds t th rght, nd bcm prmnnt fgr tht slly fcss n ttckng nd xpsng th BS n th lft lng wth "pltcl slm", prsnlly dbt h wll b rcvng lssr vl ht mls y'v bn gttng frm th rght.

128 Age Of Freedom  Wed, Jun 30, 2010 9:48:31pm

r: #74 Drk_Flcn

Chrls wld vn crdt Glnn Bck f Bck mngd t brk rlvnt nd lgtmt nws stry. n tht h's th sm s h's lwys bn: pr-trth, nt-dt.

T m, t fls lk t's knd f bsd n wh's th prsdnt. wll sy hvn't vstd mch snc LGF thrghly chngd (nd prt f t s wll dsrvng), s myb 'v bn mssng fw psts hr nd thr, bt vrll, th fcs s wy n sdd.

129 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 30, 2010 9:59:12pm

Had more than enough of this shit. See ya later.

130 Bob with one O  Thu, Jul 1, 2010 6:15:36am

Point being, Charles does seem to bring a fair amount of vitriol no matter what he posts.

Always provides thought provoking posts.


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