Georgia Republican Sponsors Bill to Require Investigating All Miscarriages

The GOP’s all-out war against women
Politics • Views: 22,911

Here we have yet another unbelievably ugly right wing attack on women’s rights, in Georgia this time, where Republican Rep. Bobby Franklin has sponsored a bill that requires police to investigate all miscarriages to make sure they weren’t actually secret abortions.

One in three pregnancies end in miscarriage. As a woman who miscarried in the fall of 2009, I cannot tell you how utterly disgusted by the thought that someone would even consider proposing such a bill. Many women after miscarriage already blame themselves, wondering if they had done something wrong that accidentally caused them to lose a very wanted child.

This bill would treat every woman as a potential criminal at a time when they are already at their most emotionally vulnerable. But that’s just another day in the war against women for the country’s Republican party.

Here’s the full text of this sick legislation, in which abortion is referred to as “prenatal murder.”

Also see

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203 comments
1 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:35:57pm

I KNEW THIS WAS COMING, I FUCKING CALLED THIS

2 Four More Tears  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:37:02pm

We’re running out of “party of small government” jokes.

3 Kragar  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:37:06pm

Fuck you, you fucking bastards.

4 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:39:19pm

F***! Guys this is the kind of thing I use in sarcasm to argue why trying to illegalize abortion and punish it wouldn’t work.

///Smaller Government!

5 Kragar  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:40:34pm

My wife suffered from a miscarriage. I’m pretty sure I would have kicked the ass of any bastard who came to “investigate” it.

6 Interesting Times  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:40:54pm

As I pointed out on sadangel’s earlier page about this topic, Bobby Franklin is the same Talibangelical troglodyte responsible for this:

GA State Rep. Bobby Franklin: There’s No Such Thing as a Rape Victim

7 zora  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:42:08pm

re: #5 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

these are the same fuckers that think the census is too intrusive.

8 wrenchwench  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:43:10pm

Every period is suspect.

Every woman is suspect.

9 Simply Sarah  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:43:12pm

Well, I mean, the bill is blatantly unconstitutional on its face, but that doesn’t make it any less disgusting. So, not just does it do the whole “It’s a full person from the moment of conception and abortion is murder” crap, but it also goes even further and directs an investigation of any miscarriage outside ‘medical attendance’? What the hell?

You want to take what is already very likely a traumatic experience to a woman (And any partner/relatives) and turn it into, effectively, a murder investigation? I…I don’t really know what to say.

10 Bulworth  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:43:38pm

Sounds like more of that less government I keep hearing about.

11 lawhawk  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:44:47pm

So, this is what the GOP considers the most important issues of the day?

Going after women who miscarry? It’s bad enough when a woman miscarries and blames themselves for the loss, but now this asshole thinks that the police should be investigating miscarriages?

As if the police don’t have more pressing matters and it’s all to find secret abortions?

*deleted* *deleted* *deleted* *deleted* *deleted*

12 Randall Gross  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:45:08pm

It’s not just miscarriages, the way this reads all abortions can be prosecuted automatically as murder.

13 Kragar  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:45:11pm

The GOP should just go ahead and chage their slogan to “Out of the boardroom and into your bedroom.”

14 wrenchwench  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:47:08pm

re: #13 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The GOP should just go ahead and chage their slogan to “Out of the boardroom and into your bedroom feminine hygiene product.”

yes, I went there. Had to beat ‘em to it.

15 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:47:21pm
16 Four More Tears  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:47:55pm

re: #13 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The GOP should just go ahead and chage their slogan to “Out of the boardroom and into your bedroom.”

A picture of Rush Limbaugh in every bedroom would help us avoid a lot of unwanted pregnancies.

17 Lidane  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:48:54pm

re: #2 JasonA

We’re running out of “party of small government” jokes.

Neither party is the party of small government. The Republicans have just convinced enough people to believe that they are.

18 nines09  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:49:03pm

This is undeniable truth to the fact that these soul less cretins have not an ounce of humanity. Even if you are against abortion this is beyond the pale.

19 HappyWarrior  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:49:04pm

Jeez that’s just creepy. Not surprised that this is the same guy who said there was no such thing as a rape victim. What a pathetic jerk.

20 Varek Raith  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:49:42pm

JOBS!

21 researchok  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:49:46pm

Why was my comment deleted?

22 Obdicut  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:49:48pm

re: #19 HappyWarrior

He sure hates him some women.

23 lawhawk  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:50:05pm

re: #12 Thanos

And completely ignores decades of jurisprudence to try and legislate at the state level the elimination of Roe and its progeny.

24 researchok  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:50:36pm

re: #23 lawhawk

And completely ignores decades of jurisprudence to try and legislate at the state level the elimination of Roe and its progeny.

So much for ‘settled law’.

25 SpaceJesus  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:51:01pm

wow. i don’t have any words.

american taliban strikes again i guess

26 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:51:02pm

Well, you can’t say this wasn’t inevitable. I mean, it’s the logical next step if you are really serious about banning abortion.

God help us all if these monsters get any more power than they already have.

27 Randall Gross  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:51:21pm

re: #23 lawhawk

And completely ignores decades of jurisprudence to try and legislate at the state level the elimination of Roe and its progeny.

Indeed

28 researchok  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:51:41pm

re: #21 researchok

Never mind.

Too graphic and uncivil, I suspect

29 lostlakehiker  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:52:08pm

Wow. That’s a big can of worms he wants to open. Big government, big taxes, cameras in every bedroom and bathroom so as to keep track of every woman’s periods and all possible reasons she might have missed one.

Maybe his bill will be referred to the committee on committees that study the feasibility of having a committee look into the matter.

Or better yet, just drop it into the biohazard waste receptacle at the capital.

30 Lidane  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:52:14pm

re: #11 lawhawk

So, this is what the GOP considers the most important issues of the day?

1. Prosecute Miscarriages

2. ???

3. JOBS! ECONOMIC GROWTH! FREE MARKET!

4. Profit!

31 S'latch  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:52:18pm

Now that’s some overbearing and intrusive government for you.

32 Targetpractice  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:52:38pm

Thing is, I don’t think the GOP’s gonna like where this bill goes if it passes. How many miscarriages will be linked to things that might have been prevented by, say, having access to adequate prenatal care? Or to poor diets as a result of poverty? They think it’s just about rooting out abortion, but they don’t stop to think of what they’re going to find instead.

33 wrenchwench  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:52:41pm

re: #28 researchok

Never mind.

Too graphic and uncivil, I suspect

You got off easy.

Comments that advocate violence will be cause for immediate banning with no appeal.

34 Randall Gross  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:52:42pm

This is a grandstand kneejerk nod to the bible beaters who put this miscreant in office. Tea party and fiscal conservatism is just a cloaking device when you get to the South.

35 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:53:01pm

re: #28 researchok

Never mind.

Too graphic and uncivil, I suspect

I typed out about 8 different responses that I had to delete. None of them were fit for any audience. I can’t find anything other than rage and violence in my heart when I hear things like this. It makes me want to see certain people suffer, and I don’t like that I feel that way.

36 Lidane  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:53:09pm

re: #31 Lawrence Schmerel

Now that’s some overbearing and intrusive government for you.

But small enough to fit in a woman’s uterus, don’tcha know.

37 Simply Sarah  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:53:18pm

re: #28 researchok

Never mind.

Too graphic and uncivil, I suspect

Probably. I can’t say I blame you for the feelings, though. It is not easy for me to keep from utterly exploding at this sort of nonsense.

38 Kragar  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:53:26pm

re: #31 Lawrence Schmerel

Now that’s some overbearing and intrusive government for you.

Except if you run a multibillion dollar company, then we’ll cut some slack for you.

39 HappyWarrior  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:53:32pm

What’s pathetic is Bobby Franklin probably has himself and his constituents convinced that he champions small government.

40 researchok  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:54:35pm

re: #33 wrenchwench

You got off easy.

Yup, mea culpa, notwithstanding the rhetorical intent.

I have to find a way to rephrase that because guys like Franklin are real blow hards who deserve to….be read the riot act.

41 Targetpractice  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:55:01pm

re: #39 HappyWarrior

What’s pathetic is Bobby Franklin probably has himself and his constituents convinced that he champions small government.

In their minds, he probably does if he rails against “entitlement spending,” “Obamacare,” and other such bullshit. To the GOP, “small government” is code for “Doing away with spending the Democrats support.”

42 Randall Gross  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:55:04pm

When is this throwback to middle ages going to put in legislation requiring chastity belts for unwed women?

43 SpaceJesus  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:55:08pm

i knew the whole “we’re just fiscal conservatives here to fix the economy and government spending” thing was a load of crap.

how dare these scumbags exploit an economic crisis their own party created just so they can ride in and try to destroy civil rights.

44 researchok  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:56:20pm

re: #37 Simply Sarah

Probably. I can’t say I blame you for the feelings, though. It is not easy for me to keep from utterly exploding at this sort of nonsense.

My comment was inappropriate.

I can find a way to say the same thing without that kind of suggestion.

45 Decatur Deb  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:56:33pm

re: #39 HappyWarrior

What’s pathetic is Bobby Franklin probably has himself and his constituents convinced that he champions small government.

Rep Franklin is also the idiot who proposed the species currency law. Per wiki, he is well thought of:

Bobby Franklin is a member of the House of Representatives in the U.S. state of Georgia. Franklin is a Republican representing District 43, which encompasses parts of northern Cobb County. His official biography on the Georgia General Assembly’s website reads: “Representative Franklin has been called ‘the conscience of the Republican Caucus’ because he believes that civil government should return to its biblically and constitutionally defined role.”[1]

46 Lidane  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:56:38pm

re: #32 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

They think it’s just about rooting out abortion, but they don’t stop to think of what they’re going to find instead.

That’s because they don’t give a shit about what they’re going to find. It’s not about that. It’s about passing laws to control women and their sexuality. The same asshat who wants to turn miscarriage into a crime wants to redefine what a rape victim is. What is that if not outright misogyny?

47 researchok  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:56:43pm

re: #42 Thanos

When is this throwback to middle ages going to put in legislation requiring chastity belts for unwed women?

At this rate, a week from Friday.
//

48 HappyWarrior  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:57:06pm

re: #41 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

In their minds, he probably does if he rails against “entitlement spending,” “Obamacare,” and other such bullshit. To the GOP, “small government” is code for “Doing away with spending the Democrats support.”

That’s pretty much what a “small government conservative” is, someone who rails against programs that Democrats support. I am sorry but anyone who thinks that the GOP as it stands now actually champions small government is kidding themselves.

49 leftynyc  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:57:20pm

There are simply no words to convey my disgust at this.

50 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:58:44pm

re: #46 Lidane

That’s because they don’t give a shit about what they’re going to find. It’s not about that. It’s about passing laws to control women and their sexuality. The same asshat who wants to turn miscarriage into a crime wants to redefine what a rape victim is. What is that if not outright misogyny?

Yep. This isn’t about saving fetuses. Frankly, it never was about that. It’s about control.

Just like rape.

51 Simply Sarah  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:58:51pm

re: #44 researchok

My comment was inappropriate.

I can find a way to say the same thing without that kind of suggestion.

Hey, the fact that you can recognize that fact already puts you well above the average web commenter (Granted, that’s not saying much *coughs*).

52 zora  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:58:53pm

re: #19 HappyWarrior

i don’t know the guy’s personal history, but anyone that says that there is no such thing as a rape victim only a rape accuser sounds like a rapist and/or rape sympathizer.

53 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:59:32pm
54 Lidane  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:59:44pm

re: #47 researchok

At this rate, a week from Friday.
//

Considering that we already have a Senator on record saying that unmarried pregnant women shouldn’t teach, I’m amazed that chastity belts aren’t required by federal law right now. =P

55 researchok  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:59:49pm

re: #35 Fozzie Bear

I typed out about 8 different responses that I had to delete. None of them were fit for any audience. I can’t find anything other than rage and violence in my heart when I hear things like this. It makes me want to see certain people suffer, and I don’t like that I feel that way.

Believe me, I understand.

There are lots of things to disagree on (and that’s healthy), but when some self serving moron- who is paid by taxpayers- engages in this kind of grandstanding, well, it just gets to me. He isn’t prattling on about roads or taxes or water plants.

We’re talking about lives here. How dare he be so cavalier!

56 HappyWarrior  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 1:59:51pm

re: #52 zora

i don’t know the guy’s personal history, but anyone that says that there is no such thing as a rape victim only a rape accuser sounds like a rapist and/or rape sympathizer.

I have to agree. Really creepy thing to say honestly since there are tests that can prove that women were raped. Guy seems to have some issues with women.

57 researchok  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:00:02pm

re: #51 Simply Sarah

Hey, the fact that you can recognize that fact already puts you well above the average web commenter (Granted, that’s not saying much *coughs*).

LOLOL

58 Summer Seale  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:00:50pm

And again, again, again, many wonder why we call them the American Taliban.

59 researchok  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:01:19pm

re: #54 Lidane

Considering that we already have a Senator on record saying that unmarried pregnant women shouldn’t teach, I’m amazed that chastity belts aren’t required by federal law right now. =P

Tell me about it.

I’d like to know when crazy became a part of the conservative movement.

60 HappyWarrior  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:01:22pm

re: #54 Lidane

Considering that we already have a Senator on record saying that unmarried pregnant women shouldn’t teach, I’m amazed that chastity belts aren’t required by federal law right now. =P

I love Jim DeMint’s “championing” of small government because the Constitution totally says unwed pregnant women and gays shouldn’t teach. It says it right below the part where it says you have to believe in Jesus to be an elected official.

61 Simply Sarah  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:01:48pm

re: #54 Lidane

Considering that we already have a Senator on record saying that unmarried pregnant women shouldn’t teach, I’m amazed that chastity belts aren’t required by federal law right now. =P

What a liberal. I mean, he actually thinks it’s OK for married women to teach?
/

62 Targetpractice  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:01:57pm

re: #46 Lidane

That’s because they don’t give a shit about what they’re going to find. It’s not about that. It’s about passing laws to control women and their sexuality. The same asshat who wants to turn miscarriage into a crime wants to redefine what a rape victim is. What is that if not outright misogyny?

That’s what it is, from beginning to end. If the past year or so has taught me anything, it’s that the “Take America Back” crowd are composed of small-minded misogynists who simply can’t handle that this isn’t the America that their daddies ruled with an iron fist. I’ve seen some of the most disgusting “rationalizations” for everything from doing away with no-fault divorce to barring women from the workplace in recent months, all of which supposedly are why “the good ol’ days” were so “good.”

63 Lidane  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:02:34pm

re: #56 HappyWarrior

Guy seems to have some issues with women.

Women aren’t barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen like he learned in Bible school. They work. They go to school. They vote. They have opinions. They can have sex with whoever they want whenever they want, and have the right to say no.

Some folks just can’t handle that.

64 Four More Tears  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:02:34pm

re: #58 Summer

And again, again, again, many wonder why we call them the American Taliban.

‘Cause calling them Nazi’s would be uncivilized?

65 Kragar  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:03:24pm

Lets see how many GOP we can get on board with a plan for mandatory castration of men responsible for unwanted pregnancies.

66 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:04:27pm

re: #64 JasonA

‘Cause calling them Nazi’s would be uncivilized?

I don’t think it would be an exaggeration to say that the Nazis probably would have found such a proposal to be insane. That’s really saying something.

67 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:04:34pm
68 Lidane  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:04:37pm

re: #59 researchok

I’d like to know when crazy became a part of the conservative movement.

About 40+ years ago when the religious nutjobs started taking over the GOP.

None of this shit is new. It’s just more blatant now that the old white guy lost the election to the young black guy with an African name. The crazy has become more blatant by several orders of magnitude, but it’s hardly a new development.

69 HappyWarrior  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:04:49pm

It just amazes me that the GOP seems to have taken several steps backwards on social issues. Gosh I hate saying it but I think the GOP and conservative movement nowadays would flip out over Civil Rights and call people like King “Marxists”.

70 SpaceJesus  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:05:10pm

re: #65 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)


to be fair, the men should all automatically be investigated as accessories under this law. oh wait, that would mean bad things for men, so that would never happen with the gop.

71 Jadespring  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:05:21pm

re: #63 Lidane

I don’t mind being barefoot and wouldn’t mind being pregnant in a kitchen.

I would mind being told I had to do that and that it wasn’t a choice though.

72 Kruk  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:06:07pm

re: #32 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Thing is, I don’t think the GOP’s gonna like where this bill goes if it passes. How many miscarriages will be linked to things that might have been prevented by, say, having access to adequate prenatal care? Or to poor diets as a result of poverty? They think it’s just about rooting out abortion, but they don’t stop to think of what they’re going to find instead.

Induvidual responsibility!!!1111111!!!!!

//

(Wingnut code for: It’s your fault you’re poor. You or your parents made poor choices, so suck it up).

73 HappyWarrior  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:06:09pm

THe Modern GOP: Building a bridge to the 21 century…………………..BC

74 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:07:25pm

I know women who have had miscarriages. They are still scarred years later. I can’t imagine “Interrogating” one.

75 zora  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:08:39pm

re: #63 Lidane

[Link: thinkprogress.org…]

Republican Officials Cut Head Start Funding, Saying Women Should Be Married And Home With Kids

COMMISSIONER C. PAUL SMITH (R): I think its very significant that we did make this marriage week announcement today, because that is the best long-term way to help our children, as marriage is strengthened in our community. As many of you know, I had a lot of kids, and my wife stayed home, at significant sacrifice, during those early years, because she knew she had to be with those kids at that critical age. I know everybody isn’t able to survive doing that, but clearly, as we can strengthen marriage we can decrease the children that we have to reach.
76 Kruk  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:08:40pm

re: #61 Simply Sarah

What a liberal. I mean, he actually thinks it’s OK for married women to teach?
/

Baby steps. The liberal project has been in action for sixty years, and we can’t overturn it in a day.

/

77 researchok  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:09:22pm

re: #68 Lidane

About 40+ years ago when the religious nutjobs started taking over the GOP.

None of this shit is new. It’s just more blatant now that the old white guy lost the election to the young black guy with an African name. The crazy has become more blatant by several orders of magnitude, but it’s hardly a new development.

It’s all too depressing because conservatives (real conservatives) really have no political outlet.

78 Simply Sarah  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:10:20pm

re: #75 zora

*twitch*

79 Four More Tears  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:10:33pm

re: #74 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I know women who have had miscarriages. They are still scarred years later. I can’t imagine “Interrogating” one.

There there. Today’s GOP is tough enough to do those things you’re to girly to do.

/

80 Targetpractice  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:10:58pm

re: #75 zora

[Link: thinkprogress.org…]

Republican Officials Cut Head Start Funding, Saying Women Should Be Married And Home With Kids

Leader of Senate: “All fellow members of the Roman senate hear me. Shall we continue to build palace after palace for the rich? Or shall we aspire to a more noble purpose and build decent housing for the poor? How does the senate vote?”
Entire Senate: “FUCK THE POOR!”

/

81 Kruk  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:10:59pm

re: #2 JasonA

We’re running out of “party of small government” jokes.

Maybe, but we’re just getting started on the “Koch sucker” jokes.

82 Lidane  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:12:06pm

re: #77 researchok

It’s all too depressing because conservatives (real conservatives) really have no political outlet.

Real liberals don’t either. The Dems are largely a centrist party and the Green Party is full of moonbat loons and total epic fail. If you’re left wing in this country, you really don’t have a party.

Still, I’ll take the Dems over the GOP since they’re not nearly as batshit insane these days.

83 Four More Tears  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:12:26pm

re: #81 Kruk

Maybe, but we’re just getting started on the “Koch sucker” jokes.


I would’ve gotten to that one sooner had I known that was how they pronounce that…

84 Lidane  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:13:07pm

re: #74 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I know women who have had miscarriages. They are still scarred years later. I can’t imagine “Interrogating” one.

But we have to find out if her miscarriage was real or just an abortion gone wrong!!!11ty!!1!!

/wingnut

85 Kruk  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:13:37pm

re: #75 zora

[Link: thinkprogress.org…]

Republican Officials Cut Head Start Funding, Saying Women Should Be Married And Home With Kids

Best part of that statement “I know not everyone can survive doing that, but…

Seriously. Fuck these people.

86 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:14:05pm

re: #77 researchok

It’s all too depressing because conservatives (real conservatives) really have no political outlet.

Neither do real liberals. We just have to all meet in the middle and (gasp) compromise. It seems like a pipe dream now, but the US political system used to be really good at compromise.

87 Lidane  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:14:58pm

re: #85 Kruk

Seriously. Fuck these people.

Only if all your shots are up to date and if you use at least three types of birth control. You don’t want to catch their stupid or pass it on to anyone else.

88 Jadespring  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:15:18pm

I just remembered what this crap might be connected too. At Uni we had some anti-abortion student groups. I now recall a convo with one who was uber religious and she talked about how banning doctor abortions was one thing but then there were all the other ways a women could make one happen. I asked what those were and she talked about all the herbs and other concoctions that can causes them—the stuff that witches give people.

I’m serious about the witch part. She did say that though her definition of ‘witch’ included people like herbalists and tribal people.

She’s right that there are plants that are know arborfacticants and there’s certain herbs that should be avoided if pregnant. Same with certain essential oils. None of these work well or are that successful. At the levels needed they are more like poisons.


Anyways it wouldn’t surprise me at all if ‘all the other ways’ was the in the personal reasoning behind this.

89 wrenchwench  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:15:35pm

From the bill:

103 (26) The act of prenatal murder has caused a significant reduction in the number of
104 citizens in this state who would serve as workers, entrepreneurs, teachers, employees, and
105 employers who would have significantly contributed to the prosperity and continuation
106 of this state; and

That makes it sound as though it’s about the economic value of the neverborn. By that logic, one could be required to pay the state just compensation for the loss of a citizen.

90 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:17:21pm
91 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:17:40pm

re: #59 researchok

Tell me about it.

I’d like to know when crazy became a part of the conservative movement.

Ronald Reagan organizing the fundamentalists.

Whatever your feelings on Reagan, it’s undeniable that he was the guy who got the Fundies and the GOP to be one

92 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:18:18pm

re: #89 wrenchwench

I know this might be a controversial thing to say but: it’s not like humanity is lacking membership. We have more than enough people. Economic arguments for increased procreation are insane, because they neglect to account for the economic impacts of resource depletion.

More workers isn’t what we need. We need to treat the ones we already have better, especially women.

93 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:18:52pm

re: #75 zora

Guy with a lot of money and power talks about sacrifice, lol bullshit forever, not enough cocktails in the world to drink away the idiot horror of these people

94 iceweasel  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:19:14pm

re: #91 WindUpBird

Ronald Reagan organizing the fundamentalists.

Whatever your feelings on Reagan, it’s undeniable that he was the guy who got the Fundies and the GOP to be one

That’s why we see the Reagan worship (and falsification of what he was all about) currently. They want St reagan and another majority.

95 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:19:24pm

I’ve heard Christians (of which I am proudly one) say, “It was part of God’s plan.”

Now? We want to interrogate God?

96 Political Atheist  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:19:29pm

re: #91 WindUpBird

So what took so long for stuff like this to happen? Why did it not happen under GHW Bush? Because the GOP has lost it’s mind relatively recently.

97 lgffan  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:19:57pm

OT: I keep getting this email:
Congressional Reform Act of 2011

The 26th amendment (granting the right to vote for 18 year-olds) took only 3 months & 8 days to be ratified! Why? Simple! The people demanded it. That was in 1971…before computers, before e-mail, before cell phones, etc.

Of the 27 amendments to the Constitution, seven (7) took 1 year or less to become the law of the land…all because of public pressure.

I’m asking each addressee to forward this email to a minimum of twenty people on their address list; in turn ask each of those to do likewise.

In three days, most people in The United States of America will have the message. This is one idea that really should be passed around.

Congressional Reform Act of 2011

1. Term Limits.
12 years only, one of the possible options below..
A. Two Six-year Senate terms
B. Six Two-year House terms
C. One Six-year Senate term and three Two-Year House terms
2. No Tenure / No Pension.
A Congressman collects a salary while in office and receives no pay when they are out of office.
3. Congress (past, present & future) participates in Social Security.
All funds in the Congressional retirement fund move to the Social Security system immediately. All future funds flow into the Social Security system, and Congress participates with the American people.
4. Congress can purchase their own retirement plan, just as all Americans do.
5. Congress will no longer vote themselves a pay raise. Congressional pay will rise by the lower of CPI or 3%.
6. Congress loses their current health care system and participates in the same health care system as the American people.
7. Congress must equally abide by all laws they impose on the American people.
8. All contracts with past and present Congressmen are void effective 1/1/12.
The American people did not make this contract with Congressmen. Congressmen made all these contracts for themselves.
Serving in Congress is an honor, not a career. The Founding Fathers envisioned citizen legislators, so ours should serve their term(s), then go home and back to work.
If each person contacts a minimum of twenty people then it will only take three days for most people (in the U.S. ) to receive the message. Maybe it is time.
THIS IS HOW YOU FIX CONGRESS!!!!! If you agree with the above, pass it on. If not, just delete

Probably the third time in 2 weeks. Have you all discussed this topic? It sure looks interesting to me, every time I look at it.

98 Romantic Heretic  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:20:26pm

re: #45 Decatur Deb

Rep Franklin is also the idiot who proposed the species currency law. Per wiki, he is well thought of:

Bobby Franklin is a member of the House of Representatives in the U.S. state of Georgia. Franklin is a Republican representing District 43, which encompasses parts of northern Cobb County. His official biography on the Georgia General Assembly’s website reads: “Representative Franklin has been called ‘the conscience of the Republican Caucus’ because he believes that civil government should return to its biblically and constitutionally defined role.”[1]

Notice that the Bible comes before the Constitution?

So much for ‘rendering unto Caesar.’

99 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:20:28pm

re: #96 Rightwingconspirator

So what took so long for stuff like this to happen? Why did it not happen under GHW Bush? Because the GOP has lost it’s mind relatively recently.

This was well underway during the Bush years. Don’t kid yourself.

100 wrenchwench  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:21:17pm

re: #88 Jadespring

Anyways it wouldn’t surprise me at all if ‘all the other ways’ was the in the personal reasoning behind this.


Menstrual extraction.

101 Kragar  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:21:18pm

re: #93 WindUpBird

Guy with a lot of money and power talks about sacrifice, lol bullshit forever, not enough cocktails in the world to drink away the idiot horror of these people

This morning, Rush said on air that no one should ever make sacrifices, and if you did or even talked about it, you were a dirty liberal.

102 Political Atheist  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:21:21pm

re: #99 Fozzie Bear

Who under Bush 41 sponsored a bill like this?

103 HappyWarrior  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:21:57pm

re: #91 WindUpBird

Ronald Reagan organizing the fundamentalists.

Whatever your feelings on Reagan, it’s undeniable that he was the guy who got the Fundies and the GOP to be one

Did you see the latest Onion article about Reagan and Eisenhower? Thought that was brilliant myself. And yeah I blame Reagan and to some extent Carter for making the religious right a key religious force in politics. We’d be a lot better off as a country if politicians had shrugged off people like Jerry Falwell and others as the loons they were and are.

104 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:22:05pm

re: #102 Rightwingconspirator

Who under Bush 41 sponsored a bill like this?

Exactly like this? Nobody. This didn’t come from nowhere, however.

105 HappyWarrior  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:22:52pm

re: #101 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

This morning, Rush said on air that no one should ever make sacrifices, and if you did or even talked about it, you were a dirty liberal.

How very Randian. Next he’s going to be saying if you give to charity, you’re a bad person.

106 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:23:16pm

re: #100 wrenchwench

Oh! Menstrual - Minstral!

I always wondered why people in the old days would want to go to a Menstrual show.
/

107 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:23:46pm

re: #106 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Oh! Menstrual - Minstral!

I always wondered why people in the old days would want to go to a Menstrual show.
/

Seems anticlimactic. /

108 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:24:01pm

This guy Franklin … you almost have to wonder if he’s just some sort of Andy Kauffman performance artist / troll.

Do away with driver’s licenses

CBS Atlanta’s Rebekka Schramm asked Franklin, “How are we going to keep up with who’s who and who’s on the roads and who’s not supposed to be on the roads?”

“That’s a great question,” Franklin said. “And I would have to answer that with a question, ‘Why do you need to know who’s who?’”

“What about 12-14-year-olds who want to drive? What would stop them?” Schramm asked.

“Well, what’s stopping them now anyway?” Franklin answered.

He also apparently believes the right to drive derives from the Magna Carta.

109 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:24:02pm

re: #96 Rightwingconspirator

So what took so long for stuff like this to happen? Why did it not happen under GHW Bush? Because the GOP has lost it’s mind relatively recently.

Well, they rise in pitch whenever a democrat is in power, but basically the power balance has flipped, the fundamentalists arne’t kept in check by a republican president, and now they seem to have enough pull to primary moderates and force them out. Add that to the obvious freaky nativist racism that seem sprinkled everywhere you see these guys gathering

What took so long is they just had to grow in power and momentum until it was them using the GOP and not the other way around.

Under Reagan, the fundamentalists were a useful tool.

Now they’re ascendant, and the media that caters to them is ascendant (fox news etc) and the GOP is the useful tool.

110 Jadespring  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:25:01pm

re: #100 wrenchwench

Menstrual extraction.

Huh. Never heard of that one.

111 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:25:14pm

re: #108 negativ

My right to possess nuclear weapons in my garage derives from Hammurabi’s code.

112 wrenchwench  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:25:19pm

Men like Rep. Bobby Franklin are just scared to pieces:

The Threatening Scent of Fertile Women

113 Targetpractice  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:26:37pm

re: #88 Jadespring

And that’s what you’re going to see if this becomes law. Women, still trying to deal (and, in a lot of cases, failing) to deal with their loss being all but accused of “murdering” their child. Testing their stools and urine for signs of medications, herbs, and so forth that are “known” to cause miscarriages. Examinations from head to toe for signs of trauma that might have induced the miscarriage. Forcing them to undergo tests for signs of tools being used in a “home abortion.”

And all, of course, paid for with your tax dollars. Yessir, investigating miscarriages as possible “murder” is okay, but don’t dare use those dollars to get the mother health insurance so she can receive prenatal care.

/ (‘cuse me, I’ve gotta go vomit now.)

114 wrenchwench  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:26:38pm

re: #110 Jadespring

Huh. Never heard of that one.

I knew one of the originators. They thought it was going to make the question of legal abortion moot.

115 TedStriker  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:26:39pm

re: #10 Bulworth

Sounds like more of that less government I keep hearing about.

Small enough to fit inside a woman’s uterus…

*spit*

116 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:26:50pm

re: #102 Rightwingconspirator

Who under Bush 41 sponsored a bill like this?

I would say the proverbial fundamentalist ball was rolling and gaining speed, but Bush 41 wasn’t helping, he seemed to have little use for the so-cons

117 Romantic Heretic  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:27:05pm

re: #86 Fozzie Bear

Neither do real liberals. We just have to all meet in the middle and (gasp) compromise. It seems like a pipe dream now, but the US political system used to be really good at compromise.

The US people used to be good at compromise. But large numbers on all sides are now unwilling to do so. Although it seems to me to be more on that end of the spectrum characterized as ‘Right’ these days.

It’s a poor workman who blames his tools.

118 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:27:58pm

re: #101 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

This morning, Rush said on air that no one should ever make sacrifices, and if you did or even talked about it, you were a dirty liberal.

You just wonder how a guy like that feels about people

I’m guessing he secret;y has a pretty low opinion of his country

119 Lidane  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:28:08pm

re: #97 lgffan

OT: I keep getting this email:
Congressional Reform Act of 2011

It’s bullshit:

[Link: www.snopes.com…]

120 wrenchwench  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:29:07pm

From the bill:

110 (1) ‘Fetus’ means a person at any point of development from and including the moment
111 of conception through the moment of birth. Such term includes all medical or popular
112 designations of an unborn child from the moment of conception such as conceptus,
113 zygote, embryo, homunculus, and similar terms.

It’s not the only place they use or redefine words to mean what they want them to mean.

121 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:29:21pm

re: #118 WindUpBird

which is great, because as more people get their news from rush, then I have a lower opinion of the country

What can you say to people who get their facts from a guy like that? You say nothing, because their brains are off

122 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:29:24pm

re: #112 wrenchwench

Men like Rep. Bobby Franklin are just scared to pieces:

The Threatening Scent of Fertile Women

Wow, that’s crazy!

We really aren’t all that different from other mammals. We just don’t consciously know how much we are like other mammals. Absolutely fascinating.

123 TedStriker  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:29:42pm

re: #36 Lidane

But small enough to fit in a woman’s uterus, don’tcha know.

GMTA…

124 Skeetghazi  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:29:44pm

re: #88 Jadespring

I just remembered what this crap might be connected too. At Uni we had some anti-abortion student groups. I now recall a convo with one who was uber religious and she talked about how banning doctor abortions was one thing but then there were all the other ways a women could make one happen. I asked what those were and she talked about all the herbs and other concoctions that can causes them—the stuff that witches give people.

I’m serious about the witch part. She did say that though her definition of ‘witch’ included people like herbalists and tribal people.

She’s right that there are plants that are know arborfacticants and there’s certain herbs that should be avoided if pregnant. Same with certain essential oils. None of these work well or are that successful. At the levels needed they are more like poisons.

Anyways it wouldn’t surprise me at all if ‘all the other ways’ was the in the personal reasoning behind this.

Yeah, like boarding a cross country flight while in labor.

125 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:29:54pm

re: #106 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Ooh. In retrospect. That was dumb, was funny in mah brain tho!

126 palomino  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:30:25pm

America’s emboldened state legislatures: doing their best to destroy both unions and women’s privacy rights.

127 Kruk  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:31:35pm

re: #112 wrenchwench

Men like Rep. Bobby Franklin are just scared to pieces:

The Threatening Scent of Fertile Women


Heh. Seriously though, this kind of shit is happening in other states as well:

Utah: [Link: www.examiner.com…]

Montana: [Link: mtcowgirl.com…]

I have also seen references to South Dakota and Iowa online, but can’t find the links. Can any Lizards help?

128 Romantic Heretic  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:31:58pm

re: #97 lgffan

OT: I keep getting this email:
Congressional Reform Act of 2011

Probably the third time in 2 weeks. Have you all discussed this topic? It sure looks interesting to me, every time I look at it.

I’ll quote George Carlin to reply to this.

Now, there’s one thing you might have noticed I don’t complain about: politicians. Everybody complains about politicians. Everybody says they suck. Well, where do people think these politicians come from? They don’t fall out of the sky. They don’t pass through a membrane from another reality. They come from American parents and American families, American homes, American schools, American churches, American businesses and American universities, and they are elected by American citizens. This is the best we can do folks. This is what we have to offer. It’s what our system produces: Garbage in, garbage out. If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you’re going to get selfish, ignorant leaders. Term limits ain’t going to do any good; you’re just going to end up with a brand new bunch of selfish, ignorant Americans. So, maybe, maybe, maybe, it’s not the politicians who suck. Maybe something else sucks around here… like, the public. Yeah, the public sucks. There’s a nice campaign slogan for somebody: “The Public Sucks. Fuck Hope.

129 Targetpractice  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:32:21pm

re: #120 wrenchwench

From the bill:

It’s not the only place they use or redefine words to mean what they want them to mean.

That section alone pretty much explains the reasoning behind this bill. Once law, then you simply build on it, asserting that it’s already been established in Georgia law that “life begins at conception,” so any laws aimed at “protecting” that life are no different than once against protecting life outside the womb.

130 researchok  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:32:39pm

re: #82 Lidane

Real liberals don’t either. The Dems are largely a centrist party and the Green Party is full of moonbat loons and total epic fail. If you’re left wing in this country, you really don’t have a party.

Still, I’ll take the Dems over the GOP since they’re not nearly as batshit insane these days.

I’m really ‘classical conservative’ in the way there is ‘classical liberals’.

I’m pro choice and want to create an environment with fewer abortions.

I’m fiscally conservative but I support Obama’s investment in infrastructure (no, that does not include planting flowers along bike paths).

I believe less government is better government but I like effective regulation (regulation without a genesis in class warfare).

I believe in lesser taxes but I also believe in health care reform (that said, insurance reform would have been a better idea in my opinion).

I believe in education and strong schools but I also believe teachers need to be professionals, earn tenure and be required to prove their competency- just like other professionals.

I support charter schools and school choice and school competition. There is a reason so many minority parents are desperate to get their kids into better schools.

I also believe in the individuals right to do as he or she pleases. However, if there is the possibility that I might have to fund the results of stupid behavior, then I I want to tax the hell out that behavior- smoking, drinking, riding a motorcycle without a helmet, etc.

I could go on but you get the point.

Classical conservatives have a lot in common with classical liberals.

A couple of endangered species, to be sure.

131 Romantic Heretic  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:33:01pm

re: #101 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

This morning, Rush said on air that no one should ever make sacrifices, and if you did or even talked about it, you were a dirty liberal.

I suppose he’s next going to propose we dig up Arlington? Wouldn’t want a bad example to be set after all. ///

132 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:33:03pm

re: #130 researchok

but does it include bike paths themselves? :D

133 Decatur Deb  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:33:13pm

re: #96 Rightwingconspirator

So what took so long for stuff like this to happen? Why did it not happen under GHW Bush? Because the GOP has lost it’s mind relatively recently.

A lot of it was probably going on—we just didn’t have a developed blogosphere to catch them at it.

134 Jadespring  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:33:54pm

Looks like their may be more defections… war ships this time.


Al Jazeera: A Ship just arrived to Malta after her captain refused to commit to orders to bomb the #libya town of beghazi


ShababLibya LibyanYouthMovement

by ZenPyramid
CONFIRMED: the two ships heading to Benghazi to fire at the city, which caused panic earlier, had in fact defected to Malta #Feb17 #Libya

135 researchok  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:34:32pm

re: #132 WindUpBird

but does it include bike paths themselves? :D

Nowadays, yes.

I’m all for conserving fuel. And I like the exercise component.

136 TedStriker  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:35:00pm

re: #97 lgffan

Sounds good, but it’ll never happen so long as Congresscritters are in it for themselves.

137 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:35:21pm

re: #135 researchok

Nowadays, yes.

I’m all for conserving fuel. And I like the exercise component.

Got me a light rail line and bike paths apart from the road (no dodging cars!) about a frisbee throw from my apartment, it’s nice

138 researchok  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:37:02pm

re: #137 WindUpBird

Got me a light rail line and bike paths apart from the road (no dodging cars!) about a frisbee throw from my apartment, it’s nice

Is the light rail making money or breaking even?

139 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:37:05pm

Georgia makes it easy to see his endless kookery:
[Link: www.legis.ga.gov…]

HB3 Constitutional Tender Act – “to require the exclusive use of gold and silver coin as tender in payment of debts by or to the state”

Repeal Ch.11, Title 16, Art. 4 which outlaws the following things, among others:
16-11-102: Pointing a gun at another person
16-11-106: Using a firearm in the commission of another crime
16-11-113: Transferring a firearm to someone cannot legally own one
16-11-122: Possession of a sawed-off shotgun or machine gun
16-11-127: Carrying a firearm onto school property or at school functions
16-11-131: Possession of firearm by convicted felon
16-11-132: Possession of firearm by individual under 18
16-11-134: Discharge of firearm under the influence of drugs
16-11-170: To provide background checks under the Brady Act

HB11 Freedom from Compulsory Pandemic Act – “to repeal the authority of the Governor to issue mandatory vaccination orders”

among many others. And of course:

HB37 – “to provide that political parties shall provide documentation that their candidates in the presidential preference primary meet the qualifications of the United States Constitution to hold the office of President of the United States”

140 wrenchwench  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:38:32pm

re: #139 negativ

Wow. A 360 degree nutter.

141 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:39:10pm

re: #130 researchok

Exactly. We should be arguing over degrees, not basic principles of good governance. Everybody agrees we should spend “just enough” government, and will argue over how much really is enough. That’s rational political discourse.

Completely defunding the EPA and dept. of Education is fucking nuts. Banning medical procedures that don’t endanger lives is fucking nuts. Not investing heavily in energy research is fucking nuts. Denying that climate change is happening is fucking nuts.

Maybe some day, there can be a party of conservatives I can respect. Until then, I guess I’ll have to dole out my respect for conservatives on a more individual basis, because the “movement” itself is corrupt, rotten to the core, and evil.

142 researchok  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:39:24pm

re: #140 wrenchwench

Wow. A 360 degree nutter.

Can I say he’s a self serving, self aggrandizing, pompous bastard?

143 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:40:04pm

re: #138 researchok

Is the light rail making money or breaking even?

When gas goes up 2-3 bucks a gallon it’ll more than break even relative to the total cost of that many cars on the road, I would think.

144 Decatur Deb  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:40:18pm

re: #139 negativ

Full-service nutcase. Who votes for dimwit like this? (It’s not his first term.)

145 brookly red  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:40:20pm

re: #142 researchok

Can I say he’s a self serving, self aggrandizing, pompous bastard?

/but I just got here?

146 Political Atheist  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:40:40pm

re: #104 Fozzie Bear

It came from a single bill sponsor, recently. Did you even notice not a single other legislator co sponsored? This grandstanding idiot has managed to provide all the paint needed for broad brush application of righteous anger.

147 Lidane  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:42:24pm

re: #136 talon_262

Sounds good, but it’ll never happen so long as Congresscritters are in it for themselves.

It’s a chain e-mail. Not going to happen at all:

[Link: www.snopes.com…]

148 wrenchwench  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:43:02pm

re: #142 researchok

Can I say he’s a self serving, self aggrandizing, pompous bastard?

You could, but it seems so inadequate.

149 researchok  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:43:13pm

re: #141 Fozzie Bear

Exactly. We should be arguing over degrees, not basic principles of good governance. Everybody agrees we should spend “just enough” government, and will argue over how much really is enough. That’s rational political discourse.

Completely defunding the EPA and dept. of Education is fucking nuts. Banning medical procedures that don’t endanger lives is fucking nuts. Not investing heavily in energy research is fucking nuts. Denying that climate change is happening is fucking nuts.

Maybe some day, there can be a party of conservatives I can respect. Until then, I guess I’ll have to dole out my respect for conservatives on a more individual basis, because the “movement” itself is corrupt, rotten to the core, and evil.

I hear you- it really is depressing.

I will say this- I wish there were more liberals/progressives like yourself. Disagreeing on something does not merit excoriation, hatred or tar and feathers.

There are too few people (on either side) that are capable of worthwhile exchange. Politics have become a zero sum game, sadly.

That said, there are some good people here. I do enjoy the back and forth with them.

150 researchok  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:43:26pm

re: #145 brookly red

/but I just got here?

LOLOL

151 researchok  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:43:56pm

re: #148 wrenchwench

You could, but it seems so inadequate.

THAT was elegant!

152 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:44:26pm

re: #146 Rightwingconspirator

It came from a single bill sponsor, recently. Did you even notice not a single other legislator co sponsored? This grandstanding idiot has managed to provide all the paint needed for broad brush application of righteous anger.

If he were even close to alone in his insane crusade, I would dismiss him.
If he were loudly decried by prominent voices on the right, I would dismiss him.
If the GOP in GA began the process of impeaching him immediately, I would dismiss him.

As it is now, he is part of a large movement, not a lone nutbag. We have dismissed these people for too long. It’s time to attack them, because they won’t stop until we drive them out of power. In this regard, the right is holding all the cards. The left can’t marginalize what they already hate with a passion. Only the right can stop this.

And the GOP isn’t doing a fucking thing about it. At some point, acquiescing to evil becomes an act of evil. We are way past that point.

153 TedStriker  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:45:39pm

re: #119 Lidane

It’s bullshit:

[Link: www.snopes.com…]

Thought it sounded a little too pat…

154 researchok  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:46:21pm

re: #143 Fozzie Bear

When gas goes up 2-3 bucks a gallon it’ll more than break even relative to the total cost of that many cars on the road, I would think.

I think we’re headed for 3-4 dollar a gallon gas so that bodes well for light rail.

Here in NC, they are talking about light rail between Charlotte, Winston Salem, Greensboro and Raleigh.

It might actually work.

155 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:48:54pm

re: #154 researchok

I think we’re headed for 3-4 dollar a gallon gas so that bodes well for light rail.

Here in NC, they are talking about light rail between Charlotte, Winston Salem, Greensboro and Raleigh.

It might actually work.

I think the markets are ready for it, people are ready for it, and it can’t come too soon. Oil prices are just going to keep going up from here until the end of time, so any investment of that sort that could possibly break even any time soon will be a net gain in no time flat.

(Political instability in the region of the world that has most of the easiest-to-get-to oil on the planet should drive that message home, I think.)

156 brookly red  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:49:41pm

re: #154 researchok

I think we’re headed for 3-4 dollar a gallon gas so that bodes well for light rail.

Here in NC, they are talking about light rail between Charlotte, Winston Salem, Greensboro and Raleigh.

It might actually work.

gas is already at $4 at some places in California… I am thinking more like 5-6 dollar gas buy the summer, unless of course the ME goes to shit then get ready for even much higher.

157 Jadespring  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:49:49pm

Ugh my dog caught a huge mouse and ate it’s head.

158 researchok  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:50:55pm

re: #155 Fozzie Bear

I think the markets are ready for it, people are ready for it, and it can’t come too soon. Oil prices are just going to keep going up from here until the end of time, so any investment of that sort that could possibly break even any time soon will be a net gain in no time flat.

(Political instability in the region of the world that has most of the easiest-to-get-to oil on the planet should drive that message home, I think.)

Yup- people are remarkably smart when necessity underwrites decision making.

159 brookly red  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:52:05pm

re: #157 Jadespring

Ugh my dog caught a huge mouse and ate it’s head.

uhh, there is no such thing as a huge mouse… your dog just killed a rat.

160 researchok  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:52:20pm

re: #156 brookly red

gas is already at $4 at some places in California… I am thinking more like 5-6 dollar gas buy the summer, unless of course the ME goes to shit then get ready for even much higher.

Oil is pushing 100 bucks a barrel.

Can you imagine the back room dealing going on now?

161 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:53:23pm

re: #157 Jadespring

Eat them up YUM!

162 Skeetghazi  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:53:32pm

re: #154 researchok

I think we’re headed for 3-4 dollar a gallon gas so that bodes well for light rail.

Here in NC, they are talking about light rail between Charlotte, Winston Salem, Greensboro and Raleigh.

It might actually work.

Take the money Florida turned down (and NJ) Florida would so benefit from rail, I can’t believe they refused it.

163 Jadespring  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:54:41pm

re: #159 brookly red

uhh, there is no such thing as a huge mouse… your dog just killed a rat.

Well it was a huge mouse or a small rat. I dunno.

For a big dog, rotti/retriever cross I’ve always been impressed with her rodent hunting skills.
One winter she would catch mice and voles outside in the snow and leave them in piles at the back door.

164 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:54:49pm

re: #160 researchok

Oil is pushing 100 bucks a barrel.

Can you imagine the back room dealing going on now?

When it finally gets to the point that there is consistently much more demand for oil than can possibly be supplied, it won’t be inching up any more. Oil prices are going to bet crazy at some point.

Within 10 years, I think 20 bucks a gallon of gas will be a bargain, easily.

165 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:55:56pm

re: #162 Stanley Sea

Take the money Florida turned down (and NJ) Florida would so benefit from rail, I can’t believe they refused it.

Florida needs light rail in a huge way. All that sprawl is going to lead to economic devastation when oil prices spike. Florida is going to be a fucking wasteland, thanks to Scott. What an asshole. He’d rather fuck his own people than be proven wrong.

166 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:56:15pm

re: #164 Fozzie Bear

Obama’s in bed with Haliburton!

Eleventy!11!1

167 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:57:27pm

re: #138 researchok

Is the light rail making money or breaking even?

No idea, but it’s a municipal service

Do roads and streetlights make money?

168 researchok  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 2:59:05pm

re: #165 Fozzie Bear

Florida needs light rail in a huge way. All that sprawl is going to lead to economic devastation when oil prices spike. Florida is going to be a fucking wasteland, thanks to Scott. What an asshole. He’d rather fuck his own people than be proven wrong.

We also need to rethink how we design our cities.

See this.

169 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 3:00:33pm

re: #9 Simply Sarah

Well, I mean, the bill is blatantly unconstitutional on its face, but that doesn’t make it any less disgusting. So, not just does it do the whole “It’s a full person from the moment of conception and abortion is murder” crap, but it also goes even further and directs an investigation of any miscarriage outside ‘medical attendance’? What the hell?

You want to take what is already very likely a traumatic experience to a woman (And any partner/relatives) and turn it into, effectively, a murder investigation? I…I don’t really know what to say.

Also, how exactly the hell are the police supposed to keep track of who’s miscarrying? And how is a cop supposed to know if a miscarriage looks ‘legit’ or not? I know a lot of cops. They have a lot of specialized knowledge, but it’s mostly not about OB/GYN matters.

170 Petero1818  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 3:00:37pm

Well thank god there are no slippery slopes in Georgia…//

171 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 3:00:39pm

re: #168 researchok

We also need to rethink how we design our cities.

See this.

I agree. Everybody and his brother living a 30 minute commute from work is a formula for disaster as energy becomes ever more expensive. We need to find ways to either move places of business out of cities, or move more people into cities. Either way.

172 Targetpractice  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 3:01:17pm

re: #160 researchok

Oil is pushing 100 bucks a barrel.

Can you imagine the back room dealing going on now?

What I imagine is that, within the coming weeks and months, you’re going to see a new surge in support for items like “oil shale,” drilling in ANWR, increased off-shore drilling, and so forth. The argument? “Making oil ‘cheap’ is better for us in the long-run! Increase the domestic supply! Oil independence!”

173 researchok  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 3:01:37pm

re: #167 WindUpBird

No idea, but it’s a municipal service

Do roads and streetlights make money?

No, but our society still views light rail as an ‘extra’.

Also, light rail’s effectiveness can be measured in how many riders use the system and in the fewer numbers of cars who use the roads.

In Portland, were the locations of the stations a political football?

174 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 3:01:59pm

re: #168 researchok

We also need to rethink how we design our cities.

See this.

The reason Portland is so easy to get around in, our Urban growth Boundary

Real estate and construction

Video of Portland’s Urban Growth boundary. The red dots indicate areas of growth between 1986 and 1996. (larger size)
Oregon’s 1973 “urban growth boundary” law limits the boundaries for large scale development in each metropolitan area in Oregon.[67] This limits access to utilities such as sewage, water and telecommunications, as well as coverage by fire, police and schools.[67] Originally this law mandated that the city must maintain enough land within the boundary to provide an estimated 20 years of growth, however in 2007 the legislature altered the law to require the maintenance of an estimated 50 years of growth within the boundary, as well as the protection of accompanying farm and rural lands.[68]
The growth boundary, along with efforts of the PDC to create economic development zones, has led to the development of a large portion of downtown, a large number of mid- and high-rise developments, and an overall increase in housing and business density.[69][70] In October, 2009, the Forbes magazine rated Portland as the 3rd safest city in America.[71]

Which is definitely big government, and definitely something I approve of. Because this city rocks. And it rocks because it has density, it isn’t sprawl

175 Targetpractice  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 3:03:07pm

re: #169 SanFranciscoZionist

Also, how exactly the hell are the police supposed to keep track of who’s miscarrying? And how is a cop supposed to know if a miscarriage looks ‘legit’ or not? I know a lot of cops. They have a lot of specialized knowledge, but it’s mostly not about OB/GYN matters.

The hospitals will likely be required to inform the cops of any new miscarriages, after which the mothers will be subjected to extensive examination and testing to rule out the “known” causes of self-induced miscarriages.

176 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 3:03:24pm

re: #23 lawhawk

And completely ignores decades of jurisprudence to try and legislate at the state level the elimination of Roe and its progeny.

The argument in the bill appears to be that since Georgia was not a party to Roe v. Wade, they don’t have to do what it says.

I’m not completely sure where they got the idea that they don’t have to listen to the Supreme Court’s interpretation of the Constitution from.

177 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 3:03:56pm

re: #172 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

What I imagine is that, within the coming weeks and months, you’re going to see a new surge in support for items like “oil shale,” drilling in ANWR, increased off-shore drilling, and so forth. The argument? “Making oil ‘cheap’ is better for us in the long-run! Increase the domestic supply! Oil independence!”

It’s a fool’s errand. It’s like drinking the water in a lake you are drowning in to lower the water level. It’s not going to jack shit but speed up the inevitable.

178 researchok  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 3:04:44pm

re: #171 Fozzie Bear

I agree. Everybody and his brother living a 30 minute commute from work is a formula for disaster as energy becomes ever more expensive. We need to find ways to either move places of business out of cities, or move more people into cities. Either way.

Yeah- but sadly change will only take place by way of traumatic experience.

To expect the culture to embrace ‘smart’ thinking is like thinking the Cubs will be a decades long baseball powerhouse.

The fact is, adopting ‘smart’ now will determine whether or not we will be as strong in the future as we are now.

179 researchok  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 3:06:09pm

re: #174 WindUpBird

The reason Portland is so easy to get around in, our Urban growth Boundary

Which is definitely big government, and definitely something I approve of. Because this city rocks. And it rocks because it has density, it isn’t sprawl

We have the same type of deal here in Raleigh- though without the big government.

We do have very strong code and zoning enforcement, though.

180 researchok  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 3:07:16pm

re: #172 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

What I imagine is that, within the coming weeks and months, you’re going to see a new surge in support for items like “oil shale,” drilling in ANWR, increased off-shore drilling, and so forth. The argument? “Making oil ‘cheap’ is better for us in the long-run! Increase the domestic supply! Oil independence!”

It’s a catch 22. Job creation is in no small measure related to fuel prices.

181 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 3:07:38pm

re: #173 researchok

No, but our society still views light rail as an ‘extra’.

Also, light rail’s effectiveness can be measured in how many riders use the system and in the fewer numbers of cars who use the roads.

In Portland, were the locations of the stations a political football?

Not Portland society! it’s ours, Portland would lose its collective mind if it was threatened. I don’t have stats, but I’ve ridden the max during rush hour, when it was standing room only, and barely that, in the Japanese subway sense. A looot of people use it. I have a car and never drive anywhere, and I still use it to go downtown, because I can drink and not drive and walk to my apartment from the stop. When gas prices spiked, ridership went up. If gas prices hit five bucks a gallon, watch Portland to see how we adjust to public transit.

I’m not sure about stations being a political football, it seems like it’s on a pretty set plan, expansionwise

182 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 3:07:55pm

re: #176 SanFranciscoZionist

The argument in the bill appears to be that since Georgia was not a party to Roe v. Wade, they don’t have to do what it says.

I’m not completely sure where they got the idea that they don’t have to listen to the Supreme Court’s interpretation of the Constitution from.

they’re welcome to attempt to secede along with Texas!

183 Targetpractice  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 3:09:05pm

re: #177 Fozzie Bear

It’s a fool’s errand. It’s like drinking the water in a lake you are drowning in to lower the water level. It’s not going to jack shit but speed up the inevitable.

Yeah, but from the viewpoint of these fools, they’d rather drown in that lake than accept the help of the “hippie” trying to save them with a lifebouy constructed of biodegradable materials. They want to live under this illusion that rising oil costs are because the “tree huggers” are keeping the huge reserves they “know” exist from being tapped.

184 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 3:09:40pm

re: #71 Jadespring

I don’t mind being barefoot and wouldn’t mind being pregnant in a kitchen.

I would mind being told I had to do that and that it wasn’t a choice though.

Someone brought up the census above. Seriously. WTF. I listen to all this crap about government interfering in our business, and how we have this absolute right for the government not to know crap about us, and how fucking much they love freedom, and now they come with this shit that I have to be investigated by the police if I miscarry, because I might have secretly got away with an abortion?

Utter fuckwittery.

185 researchok  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 3:09:50pm

re: #177 Fozzie Bear

It’s a fool’s errand. It’s like drinking the water in a lake you are drowning in to lower the water level. It’s not going to jack shit but speed up the inevitable.

Oil shale is a real option.

My belief is that oil shale, coupled with increased fuel taxes (increased, but not crazy) might be the perfect balance. It worked for Canada- and we have an billion dollar a day plus trade exchange.

Done wisely, it can work.

186 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 3:10:55pm

re: #75 zora

[Link: thinkprogress.org…]

Republican Officials Cut Head Start Funding, Saying Women Should Be Married And Home With KidsUpper Middle Class

187 Cineaste  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 3:11:14pm

Just reading through the bill. It also makes it illegal for Student Health Services to provide contraceptives.

Yeah, a good way to avoid abortions is to ensure that College students don’t have contraceptives… //

*head smack*

188 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 3:11:33pm

re: #178 researchok

here’s trimet’s numbers:

Maintaining livability
Easing traffic congestion
MAX carries 26% of evening rushhour commuters traveling from
downtown on the Sunset Hwy. and
Banfield Fwy.
Westside MAX carries the equivalent
of 2.4 extra lanes of traffic on the
Sunset Hwy.
Most riders (81%) are choice riders:
they have a car available or choose
not to own one so they can ride
TriMet.
43% of adults in the region use
TriMet at least twice a month.
Clean air
Each weekday, MAX eliminates nearly
81,000 car trips from our roads,
easing traffic congestion and helping
keep our air clean. That adds up to
26.7 million fewer car trips each year.
TriMet’s MAX and buses combined
eliminate 205,300 daily car trips, or
65 million trips each year

sorry about the shitty formatting :D

189 researchok  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 3:11:52pm

re: #181 WindUpBird

Not Portland society! it’s ours, Portland would lose its collective mind if it was threatened. I don’t have stats, but I’ve ridden the max during rush hour, when it was standing room only, and barely that, in the Japanese subway sense. A looot of people use it. I have a car and never drive anywhere, and I still use it to go downtown, because I can drink and not drive and walk to my apartment from the stop. When gas prices spiked, ridership went up. If gas prices hit five bucks a gallon, watch Portland to see how we adjust to public transit.

I’m not sure about stations being a political football, it seems like it’s on a pretty set plan, expansionwise

Then it was done well. Hopefully, there expansions plans.

190 researchok  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 3:12:36pm

re: #188 WindUpBird

here’s trimet’s numbers:

Maintaining livability
Easing traffic congestion
MAX carries 26% of evening rushhour commuters traveling from
downtown on the Sunset Hwy. and
Banfield Fwy.
Westside MAX carries the equivalent
of 2.4 extra lanes of traffic on the
Sunset Hwy.
Most riders (81%) are choice riders:
they have a car available or choose
not to own one so they can ride
TriMet.
43% of adults in the region use
TriMet at least twice a month.
Clean air
Each weekday, MAX eliminates nearly
81,000 car trips from our roads,
easing traffic congestion and helping
keep our air clean. That adds up to
26.7 million fewer car trips each year.
TriMet’s MAX and buses combined
eliminate 205,300 daily car trips, or
65 million trips each year

sorry about the shitty formatting :D

The system works.

Pretty impressive for a western city.

191 theheat  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 3:13:16pm

As someone who nearly died from a miscarriage many years ago, and wound up going into shock on an emergency room gurney, with the last blood left in my Yankee constitution I’d have personally kicked the ass of the first sonfoabitch that demanded to know the sordid details. Hell, I’d gladly go to jail over it.

I’ll be goddamned if some piece of stoneage fundie legislation gives these thrillseeking fucks the right to look up my skirt. This is like a Spanish Inquisition all over again.

192 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 3:13:45pm

re: #185 researchok

Oil shale is a real option.

My belief is that oil shale, coupled with increased fuel taxes (increased, but not crazy) might be the perfect balance. It worked for Canada- and we have an billion dollar a day plus trade exchange.

Done wisely, it can work.

My thing about fuel taxes, is we are capable of creating 100mpg cars even without expensive hybrid tech, people are doing it in their basements, we just need to sorta adjust how we drive, solutions abound, but all of them require adjustments and tradeoffs. We can’t have 4200 lb. sedans and 5000 lb SUVs getting 100mpg, for example :D But a commuter vehicle, absolutely.

193 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 3:15:00pm

re: #189 researchok

Then it was done well. Hopefully, there expansions plans.

they just expanded to Clackamas, which is south of me (and why I have a stop near me)

194 boxhead  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 3:15:26pm

Will this assault on woman’s Rights ever end? These right wing freaks will not stop until women stay home and do as they are told. Balderdash I say…. (that is the G++ version of this post)

I would not like to see the outcome of jack booted thugs demanding to medically examine women due to a terrible and traumatic event. Only the true kool aid drinkers would applaud this.

disgusting

195 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 3:15:38pm

re: #192 WindUpBird

my thing being, fuel taxes won;t sting so much if cars are lighter and more efficient

But everyone wants their plush tank. i feel like MY car is too heavy, and it’s 3000 lbs.

196 Cineaste  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 3:21:42pm

The nitwit who sponsored this legislation also sponsored a piece of legislation recently to move the State of Georgia back onto the Gold Standard requiring banks to accept and offer gold & silver for all debts in the state. First of all, he’s too stupid to know that that would never pass constitutional muster given that it’s about as explicitly under the purview of the commerce clause as legislation gets but, putting that aside, it’s just f-ing moronic:

Upon the effective date of this chapter, all obligations owned by and to the state shall be converted from denomination in Federal Reserve Accounting Unit Dollars to denomination in gold and silver coins pursuant to Section 50-38-3. On the date of conversion from the use by the state of Federal Reserve Accounting Unit Dollars to its use of gold and silver coins, the conversion value of each coin used as payment of obligations by and to the state shall not be determined by the nominal face value of each coin itself, but shall be determined as follows:

197 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 3:22:22pm

re: #88 Jadespring

I just remembered what this crap might be connected too. At Uni we had some anti-abortion student groups. I now recall a convo with one who was uber religious and she talked about how banning doctor abortions was one thing but then there were all the other ways a women could make one happen. I asked what those were and she talked about all the herbs and other concoctions that can causes them—the stuff that witches give people.

I’m serious about the witch part. She did say that though her definition of ‘witch’ included people like herbalists and tribal people.

She’s right that there are plants that are know arborfacticants and there’s certain herbs that should be avoided if pregnant. Same with certain essential oils. None of these work well or are that successful. At the levels needed they are more like poisons.

Anyways it wouldn’t surprise me at all if ‘all the other ways’ was the in the personal reasoning behind this.

This reminds me of one of the stupidest and most disturbing episodes of my very early twenties. I’m going to tell you all, even though this story will probably be recycled by some reading wingnut for whom this confirms all his darkest fantasies.

One of my friends from college was dating this girl, and oh boy, she was not good enough for my friend. She was a bit of a pain. And she could not keep her mouth shut about how stupid and pathetic straight women were.

Then she slept with some guy at a party, without protection. And got pregnant. My friend reported the whole episode, and told me that she planned to have an abortion. I wished her the best, and worried that my friend would not not break up with her for even longer because she felt some need to be supportive.

Then, ON EREV ROSH HASHANAH, as I’m leaving the house for services, the phone rings, and it’s my friend, and she tells me “J. is going to do her own abortion!” in the tone I reserve for statements like “J. is going to sew her own wedding dress!” or “J. is making a memory quilt!”

The conversation got quite heated, but I do remember screaming into the phone “You spent every Saturday for five years doing clinic defense so this moron can pass up on a safe surgical abortion and try to kill herself with vodka and black cohosh? ARE YOU BOTH INSANE????”

There are all sorts of home remedies for a ‘late period’ out there, and most of them are not all that sure, or safe. The black cohosh didn’t work, and J. wound up going to an actual doctor to get an actual abortion. I was beside myself.

That said, if safe, legal abortion is outlawed or unavailable, people who are not stupid and hippified, but merely desperate, will turn to them. Some of them will die.

198 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 3:24:48pm

re: #196 Cineaste

it’s all stunts, all theater

199 Lidane  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 3:25:45pm

re: #194 boxhead

Will this assault on woman’s Rights ever end?

Nope.

200 theheat  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 3:34:48pm

re: #196 Cineaste

Dragging us back to the gold/silver standard is all part of the regressive fundies’ wet dream. This puzzle piece butts up nicely to the secessionists’ wet dream, which forms a perfect cluster of pieces with the dominonist fundies’ wet dream.

Bonus points for the person who guesses which political party they represent.

201 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 3:37:43pm

Here’s something to contemplate:

We won’t run out of oil the day we have found and extracted the last of it. That day will never come. Some of it will languish in the ground forever.

We will run out of oil the day that it takes more energy than is contained in a gallon of oil to extract it.

202 Querent  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 6:38:17pm

re: #85 Kruk

Best part of that statement “I know not everyone can survive doing that, but…

Seriously. Fuck these people.

i keep telling you lizards, DON’T fuck those people, because you don’t want to have their babies!

203 Querent  Tue, Feb 22, 2011 6:50:02pm

Moral Derpitude. In GirrrrgaDerps.


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