Arizona’s Official State Gun
WTF?
Wingnuts • Views: 25,715
Presented without comment: Arizona Legislature Approves Colt Revolver As Official State Gun.
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701 comments
1 |
William Barnett-Lewis Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:04:05pm |
Meh, state legislators do silly shit like this all the time. That's a good thing - it keeps them too busy to do real damage like those creationist fools in Tennessee.
| 2 |
jaunte Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:04:55pm |
AZ state senate once again taking dead aim at today's critical issues.
....
Weren't Colt revolvers made in Connecticut?
| 3 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:04:59pm |
I think it's silly but it's far from the stupidest thing Arizona has done.
| 4 |
b_sharp Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:05:00pm |
What possible need is there for a state gun? Perhaps they need a state weapon of mass destruction?
How about a state homicidal maniac?
| 5 |
Gus Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:05:18pm |
Immediately following the state of Utah. Yeah, the fact that Obama is president had nothing to do with it. Right.
Crisis averted!
Knuckle draggers.
| 7 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:06:28pm |
This is the state in which a lunatic just committed mass murder.
| 9 |
Big Joe Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:08:54pm |
| 10 |
makeitstop Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:09:03pm |
What happens if you shoot the state bird with the state gun? /
| 11 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:10:07pm |
It is interesting timing though in light of what today is the anniversary of.
| 13 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:11:45pm |
re: #7 Charles
This is the state in which a lunatic just committed mass murder.
///But if he'd been using the state gun he would have only gotten off 6 shots instead of 16!
| 14 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:12:08pm |
I feel so behind. Oregon has no official gun. I hereby nominate the supersoaker. It's appropriate.
| 15 |
b_sharp Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:13:31pm |
re: #14 EmmmieG
I feel so behind. Oregon has no official gun. I hereby nominate the supersoaker. It's appropriate.
That's a gun I can get behind.
| 16 |
Gus Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:13:41pm |
re: #8 b_sharp
What is really needed is an official state sedative.
For sure. You have to wonder what these people are on. They're so hyper. And these gun fetishists are the worst.
| 17 |
engineer cat Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:14:00pm |
new york city's official state gun is get the fuck outta my face asshole
| 18 |
b_sharp Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:15:18pm |
re: #16 Gus 802
For sure. You have to wonder what these people are on. They're so hyper. And these gun fetishists are the worst.
I expect many politicians to start walking with a limp.
| 19 |
Gus Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:17:11pm |
You know. Arizona has been a "white flight" destination for Southern Californians for a long time now.
| 21 |
b_sharp Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:18:16pm |
re: #19 Gus 802
You know. Arizona has been a "white flight" destination for Southern Californians for a long time now.
White flight? What's that?
| 22 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:18:23pm |
re: #20 Alouette
Hi lizards. Happy Passover!
Can cheesecake be eaten during passover? If you skip the crust, I mean.
Just wondering.
| 23 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:18:50pm |
re: #21 b_sharp
White flight? What's that?
That's a Disney Amazing Adventure film staring a dove, a swan, and an egret.
| 24 |
Gus Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:19:08pm |
re: #21 b_sharp
White flight? What's that?
Aqui:
White flight has been a term that originated in the United States, starting in the mid-20th century, and applied to the large-scale migration of whites of various European ancestries from racially mixed urban regions to more racially homogeneous suburban or exurban regions. It was first seen as originating from fear and anxiety about increasing minority populations. The term has more recently been applied to other migrations by whites, from older, inner suburbs to rural areas, as well as from the US Northeast and Midwest to the better climate in Southeast and Southwest, but this is a change from its original cause and meaning.
| 25 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:19:25pm |
| 26 |
Girth Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:24:04pm |
Welcome to Arizona!
Brought to you by....
Fox News Channel
also brought to you by...
White-Out
and special thanks to our newest sponsor...
Colt Firearms
We'll be right back after these important announcements!
| 27 |
researchok Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:24:33pm |
re: #22 EmmmieG
Can cheesecake be eaten during passover? If you skip the crust, I mean.
Just wondering.
| 28 |
Petero1818 Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:24:36pm |
re: #10 makeitstop
What happens if you shoot the state bird with the state gun? /
I believe hunting is the state sport.
| 29 |
freetoken Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:24:41pm |
I wonder if they'll ever declare Magnum™ the official state condom?
| 30 |
samgak Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:26:07pm |
re: #11 HappyWarrior
It is interesting timing though in light of what today is the anniversary of.
Jimmy Carter's encounter with a killer rabbit?
| 31 |
Sheila Broflovski Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:26:57pm |
re: #22 EmmmieG
Can cheesecake be eaten during passover? If you skip the crust, I mean.
Just wondering.
You could make cheesecake out of cream cheese, eggs, sugar, and almond crust. So yeah.
| 32 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:27:02pm |
Well, the Colt does have a long and colorful history in Arizona. So this doesn't bother me.
| 33 |
Gus Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:27:03pm |
Location: Camp Grant, Arizona
Date: April 30, 1871
Attack type: Mass murder
Death(s): 144 killed
Perpetrator: United States ArmyApril 30, 1871. The Camp Grant Massacre was an attack on Pinal and Aravaipa Apaches who surrendered to the United States Army at Camp Grant, Arizona Territory, along the San Pedro River. This is part of the decades long Apache Wars.
[...]
The attack
On the afternoon of April 28, six Caucasians, 48 Mexicans, and 92 O'odham, gathered along Rillito Creek and set off on a march to Aravaipa Canyon. At dawn on Sunday, April 30, they surrounded the Apache camp. O'odham were the main fighters, while Americans and Mexicans picked off Apaches who tried to escape. Most of the Apache men were off hunting in the mountains. All but eight of the corpses were women and children. Twenty-seven children had been captured and were sold into slavery in Mexico by the Papago and Mexicans themselves. A total of 144 Aravaipas and Pinals had been killed and mutilated.
Government reaction
The U.S. military and Eastern press called it a massacre. President Grant informed Governor A.P.K. Safford that if the perpetrators were not brought to trial, he would place Arizona under martial law. The trial lasted five days, and after 19 minutes of deliberation, the jury acquitted every defendant.
In October 1871, a Tucson grand jury indicted 100 of the assailants with 108 counts of murder. The trial two months later focused solely on Apache depredations; it took the jury just 19 minutes to pronounce a verdict of not guilty. Western Apache groups soon left their farms and gathering places near Tucson in fear of subsequent attacks. As pioneer families arrived and settled in the area, Apaches were never able to regain hold of much of their ancestral lands in the San Pedro River Valley.
| 34 |
theheat Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:27:04pm |
Related: Utah Legislature: Utah to get gun holiday on MLK day? Equally tasteless, but more racist overtones.
| 35 |
Targetpractice Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:28:28pm |
I've lost count, does this mean Arizona has surpassed Florida in the measure of sheer craziness?
| 37 |
Linden Arden Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:28:41pm |
re: #30 samgak
Jimmy Carter's encounter with a killer rabbit?
Monty Python proved that you don't fuck with Killer Rabbits!
| 38 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:29:38pm |
re: #11 HappyWarrior
It is interesting timing though in light of what today is the anniversary of.
You mean Columbine? Honestly, I doubt the legislature even thought of that. Horrific as that mass murder was, its far enough in the past that people may not remember its anniversary.
| 39 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:29:46pm |
M'kay--which is a bigger scoop of tackiness--Bridezillas, or Toddlers and Tiaras?
Next up on CBS: We just randomly find people behaving badly for you to watch.
| 40 |
b_sharp Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:30:09pm |
re: #22 EmmmieG
Can cheesecake be eaten during passover? If you skip the crust, I mean.
Just wondering.
According to this atheist, cheesecake can should must be eaten at every opportunity.
| 41 |
theheat Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:30:31pm |
re: #33 Gus 802
The trial lasted five days, and after 19 minutes of deliberation, the jury acquitted every defendant.
Sickening.
| 42 |
Interesting Times Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:30:49pm |
re: #39 EmmmieG
M'kay--which is a bigger scoop of tackiness--Bridezillas, or Toddlers and Tiaras?
Toddlers and Tiaras (which I never watch; the commercials for it are scary enough) ought to be considered a form of child abuse.
| 43 |
Ojoe Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:30:50pm |
God made men.
Samuel Colt made them equal.
(old saying)
Towercam with the last pink light odf the day on the 100 inch telescope's dome.
| 44 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:31:10pm |
re: #2 jaunte
AZ state senate once again taking dead aim at today's critical issues.
...
Weren't Colt revolvers made in Connecticut?
Does California have a state gun? I cannot find an immediate reference to one on line.
If California DID have a state gun, what would our state gun be?
Why does the very concept of a 'state gun' strike me as slightly bizarre? I mean, a state baked good, fine.
I know California's state rock.
| 46 |
Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:31:33pm |
Personally I prefer the Ruger Blackhawk single action 45 models. They are such well crafted and robustly made pistols that many gunsmiths and hand loaders manufacture what are known as "Ruger Only" loads (because they would damage a Colt and perhaps cause injury to the shooter).
The "trail/bush gun" of choice in Alaska is a Ruger Blackwawk in .44 or .45 caliber. Mainly because you can use extremely high weight bullets with a massive powder charge behind them without damaging the gun if these "hot" loads are only shot occasionally.
You can buy handloads with 300 grain soft lead slugs that will achieve over 1900fps out of a 6' barrel, it is the closet thing to wearing a rifle on your hip that money can buy. Just what you need if a bear or a moose charges out of the bushes with no warning.
I carried the .44 because it gave you the option of using either magnum rounds for defense or standard "special" rounds for target practice and "plinking." Yeah the thing kicked like a horse with "hot" loads, it hurt, but if you only have a couple of seconds to get a shot off before your trampled or eaten that isn't what your worried about, is it?
///Colts are for wanna-be, modern day, cowboys. :p
| 47 |
Sheila Broflovski Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:32:13pm |
We actually have a Jewish cheesecake holiday (not Passover)
My daughter is visiting, and one of her Passover mishugassen (crazy batshit customs) is not to eat any processed products. She has to make everything from scratch. MMkay, she has complete control over the kitchen.
I did all the prior cleaning, so I feel no guilt.
| 48 |
Ojoe Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:33:05pm |
I would think that a lever action Winchester with an octagonal barrel would be a better pick for a state gun.
This could be a growth area.
France for instance: the French 75.
And so on.
England: The longbow.
& ct.
| 49 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:33:47pm |
America has a very strange and very self-destructive infatuation with lethal weapons.
| 50 |
jaunte Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:35:06pm |
re: #44 SanFranciscoZionist
Texas' state mammal (small) is the nine-banded armadillo. No mention of caliber.
| 52 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:36:04pm |
At the very least, voting to enshrine a 'state gun' so soon after the mass murder in Tucson is unbelievably tasteless.
I think it borders on insane.
| 53 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:36:39pm |
re: #19 Gus 802
You know. Arizona has been a "white flight" destination for Southern Californians for a long time now.
My aunt wanted to move to Arizona about twenty years ago, when my cousins still lived at home, because it was 'safe'.
WHen I was in college, some SOB wannabe biker who had dated a friend of mine headed to Arizona because the law was closing in on him about his many moving violations here in California.
| 54 |
jaunte Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:36:54pm |
Texas also has a state soil: Houston Black [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
"In the USDA taxonomic system it is designated an "Udic Haplusterts"
| 56 |
Ojoe Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:37:25pm |
re: #49 Charles
Well I don't know; in any group of people you want the most moral people to be the best armed, or the evil prey on the weak and innocent; if firearms are rare, then the bad guys will have proportionally more of same, because they make sure they get them; & so perhaps it is best if firearms are widely distributed even though there are bad side effects.
So some think.
| 57 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:38:08pm |
| 58 |
theheat Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:38:15pm |
re: #50 jaunte
It should be coyotes with mange ranchers claim to "know what a gosh durn animal looks like" keep saying are chupacabras. Therefore, nix the armadillo and go chupacabra. Sort of like going birther, but with state animals.
| 59 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:38:26pm |
re: #49 Charles
America has a very strange and very self-destructive infatuation with lethal weapons.
In your opinion. Our gun culture may seem strange (it does to me at times), but its not really a bad thing. And its been a source of real pride in Arizona for generations. I don't think this action should be taken as anything but a fairly mild statement.
| 60 |
Linden Arden Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:38:47pm |
Easter approaches yet many forget the tale of Jeshua Cottontail - the animal Christ - who was born to save all the sinful critters but was betrayed by Barkus for 30 pieced of Kibble.
| 61 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:38:56pm |
re: #56 Ojoe
Well I don't know; in any group of people you want the most moral people to be the best armed, or the evil prey on the weak and innocent; if firearms are rare, then the bad guys will have proportionally more of same, because they make sure they get them; & so perhaps it is best if firearms are widely distributed even though there are bad side effects.
So some think.
Was the "most moral person" the best-armed in Tucson?
| 62 |
Interesting Times Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:39:17pm |
re: #52 Charles
At the very least, voting to enshrine a 'state gun' so soon after the mass murder in Tucson is unbelievably tasteless.
I think it borders on insane.
As someone else here said, you can't spell "crazy" without R-AZ
| 63 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:39:18pm |
re: #38 Dark_Falcon
You mean Columbine? Honestly, I doubt the legislature even thought of that. Horrific as that mass murder was, its far enough in the past that people may not remember its anniversary.
They chose a significant date for a reason. I don't think it's all that relevent, but it might have made sense to wait a day.
| 64 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:39:40pm |
re: #39 EmmmieG
M'kay--which is a bigger scoop of tackiness--Bridezillas, or Toddlers and Tiaras?
Next up on CBS: We just randomly find people behaving badly for you to watch.
Toddlers and Tiaras, definitely. At least the Bridezillas are old enough to be getting married.
| 65 |
SpaceJesus Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:40:10pm |
congrats arizona, you win the craziest state award
| 66 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:40:18pm |
re: #29 freetoken
I wonder if they'll ever declare Magnum™ the official state condom?
LOL!
Not in Arizona.
(no offense intended to Arizonan Lizards!)
| 67 |
Ojoe Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:40:33pm |
re: #44 SanFranciscoZionist
The 30.06 sporting rifle was first made in Los Angeles, IIRC. It would be a candidate. I could look up the reference for that in one of my western history books.
| 68 |
Gus Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:40:34pm |
This feeds into revanchist sentiments. It's also an obvious repudiation against Obama by right wing Republicans.
| 69 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:40:50pm |
re: #59 Dark_Falcon
In your opinion. Our gun culture may seem strange (it does to me at times), but its not really a bad thing. And its been a source of real pride in Arizona for generations. I don't think this action should be taken as anything but a fairly mild statement.
How many people have to die before you'd consider the possibility that America's infatuation with guns might be "a bad thing?"
| 70 |
b_sharp Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:40:54pm |
re: #59 Dark_Falcon
In your opinion. Our gun culture may seem strange (it does to me at times), but its not really a bad thing. And its been a source of real pride in Arizona for generations. I don't think this action should be taken as anything but a fairly mild statement.
Pride in a gun is bizarre.
| 72 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:41:42pm |
| 73 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:42:01pm |
re: #55 b_sharp
I wonder if, in part, Custer suffered for that.
In a way, yes. Actions like that convinced other Native Americans that the Army could not be trusted to keep its word. As a result, fighting that might otherwise have been concluded with a negotiated settlement kept dragging on. Camp Grant can thus serve as a example of the cost of broken treaties.
| 74 |
b_sharp Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:42:15pm |
re: #65 SpaceJesus
congrats arizona, you win the craziest state award
I thought they earned that with the profiling legislation.
| 75 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:42:27pm |
re: #50 jaunte
Texas' state mammal (small) is the nine-banded armadillo. No mention of caliber.
Our state animal is the California grizzly bear. Which was exterminated by the early 20th century.
Our state marine mammal is the gray whale, and our state insect is the California Dogface Butterfly.
| 76 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:42:38pm |
re: #71 Ojoe
No. & that was a problem, wasn't it?
How was it a problem? Arizona has some of the most lax concealed carry laws in the country.
Are you actually suggesting that more guns would have prevented those killings?
| 77 |
What, me worry? Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:43:33pm |
re: #53 SanFranciscoZionist
My aunt wanted to move to Arizona about twenty years ago, when my cousins still lived at home, because it was 'safe'.
WHen I was in college, some SOB wannabe biker who had dated a friend of mine headed to Arizona because the law was closing in on him about his many moving violations here in California.
I have family in Tucson. I love to visit. The Arizona desert is amazing. The mountains, flowers, varieties of cactus. We used to do a lot of hiking in Sabino Canyon and you can get some spelunking in if that's your thing.
The crazy has hurt tourism and it's a pity.
| 78 |
b_sharp Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:44:01pm |
re: #75 SanFranciscoZionist
Our state animal is the California grizzly bear. Which was exterminated by the early 20th century.
Our state marine mammal is the gray whale, and our state insect is the California Dogface Butterfly.
I don't know about the butterfly, but the Gray whale is endangered, isn't it?
| 79 |
Obdicut Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:44:24pm |
I like shooting guns. It's fun.
I like bowling, too. And fishing.
It's be kind of weird if the state named a state bowling ball, or bowling alley. Or a state fishing rod. Especially since this is kind of government endorsement of a private business.
| 80 |
Ojoe Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:44:25pm |
re: #76 Charles
It could be that someone with another firearm could have stopped the nutcase quite early.
That's all.
| 81 |
bratwurst Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:44:35pm |
re: #59 Dark_Falcon
In your opinion. Our gun culture may seem strange (it does to me at times), but its not really a bad thing. And its been a source of real pride in Arizona for generations.
A lot of buttons were popping with pride back in January.
| 82 |
Gus Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:44:53pm |
re: #77 marjoriemoon
I have family in Tucson. I love to visit. The Arizona desert is amazing. The mountains, flowers, varieties of cactus. We used to do a lot of hiking in Sabino Canyon and you can get some spelunking in if that's your thing.
The crazy has hurt tourism and it's a pity.
Yeah. There was a time when Arizona was known for its desert beauty or the Grand Canyon. Now it's known as one of many wingnut states.
| 83 |
Varek Raith Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:44:54pm |
re: #80 Ojoe
It could be that someone with another firearm could have stopped the nutcase quite early.
That's all.
Yeah, he almost shot the wrong person.
| 84 |
SpaceJesus Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:45:15pm |
re: #80 Ojoe
or they could have fired at him, missed, and killed another child
| 85 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:45:27pm |
re: #69 Charles
How many people have to die before you'd consider the possibility that America's infatuation with guns might be "a bad thing?"
I don't consider Laughner's actions a product of a gun culture. They're the product of a lunatic who wasn't influenced by that culture.
| 86 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:45:32pm |
re: #80 Ojoe
It could be that someone with another firearm could have stopped the nutcase quite early.
That's all.
And in the real world, there was someone with a concealed weapon in the area -- and he very nearly killed one of the rescuers.
| 87 |
theheat Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:45:47pm |
re: #75 SanFranciscoZionist
Like the massive herds of buffalo, one of the reasons grizzlies became nonexistent in California was for sport.
It's cool to rope and torture shit if you're a real cowboy. In California, the sport was popular with the Mexican-American vaqueros. Yeehaw, bang bang. Ain't it cool?
| 88 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:46:09pm |
re: #52 Charles
And, our weapons laws are arcane. And the DOJ makes no sense. I sold a couple of registered, with the DOJ assault weapons, that I inherited, and it was well, difficukt, it putting it mildly. PITA.
| 89 |
Gus Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:46:26pm |
re: #84 SpaceJesus
or they could have fired at him, missed, and killed another child
Or they would shoot the other guy with the concealed carry.
| 90 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:46:51pm |
re: #67 Ojoe
The 30.06 sporting rifle was first made in Los Angeles, IIRC. It would be a candidate. I could look up the reference for that in one of my western history books.
That would be OK.
| 91 |
Varek Raith Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:47:01pm |
| 92 |
b_sharp Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:47:02pm |
re: #80 Ojoe
It could be that someone with another firearm could have stopped the nutcase quite early.
That's all.
It's also possible that having guns all over the place would result in more deaths, not fewer.
BTW, what is the test for 'most moral person'? Is it a written test, a practical test, or do you just ask the neighbours?
| 93 |
SpaceJesus Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:47:07pm |
i'd prefer the "no guns" solution to the "everybody has a gun" solution 99 times out of 100 personally.
| 94 |
Linden Arden Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:47:22pm |
re: #72 Floral Giraffe
"We'd better not risk another frontal assault - that rabbit is dynamite!"
| 95 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:47:26pm |
re: #85 Dark_Falcon
I don't consider Laughner's actions a product of a gun culture. They're the product of a lunatic who wasn't influenced by that culture.
Really? So he just sort of figured out all on his own how to buy a semi-auto handgun with two extended magazines?
Not part of "gun culture?" Bullshit. Loughner was born and bred in Arizona's gun culture, and it helped him to kill a lot of people.
| 96 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:47:55pm |
re: #71 Ojoe
No. & that was a problem, wasn't it?
In that case? No. I can't see a scenario where anyone else at that moment having a gun would have made the situation's outcome less tragic.
| 97 |
jaunte Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:48:19pm |
re: #92 b_sharp
It's also possible that having guns all over the place would result in more deaths, not fewer.
Silverton CO, in the 1800's:
Frequent murders, assassinations, and incidental shootings made Silverton a wild and lawless place. Decent folk could hardly walk the streets without placing themselves or family members at risk. Criminal activity was so bad that Silverton decided to hire and bring in Bat Masterson, probably the most well-known and feared lawman in the U.S. at that time.
[Link: www.suite101.com...]
| 98 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:48:41pm |
re: #93 SpaceJesus
i'd prefer the "no guns" solution to the "everybody has a gun" solution 99 times out of 100 personally.
But 'no guns' isn't realistic. The scumbags will always find a way to get a weapon. England banned and confiscated all handguns, and that did not reduce gun crime.
| 99 |
bratwurst Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:49:00pm |
re: #85 Dark_Falcon
I don't consider Laughner's actions a product of a gun culture. They're the product of a lunatic who wasn't influenced by that culture.
Lunatic? Almost certainly. Wasn't influenced by "that culture"? Come on.
| 100 |
b_sharp Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:49:01pm |
re: #85 Dark_Falcon
I don't consider Laughner's actions a product of a gun culture. They're the product of a lunatic who wasn't influenced by that culture.
Bull shit.
The US, as a gun based culture, has more murders by gun than other less gun based cultures.
That isn't a coincidence.
| 101 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:49:20pm |
| 102 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:49:29pm |
I personally, don't see a need for weapons today, but I don't see a need to take the right to own & use them from folks who want to legallly own and use weapons, like guns. Knives also apply.
| 103 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:49:34pm |
re: #75 SanFranciscoZionist
Our state animal is the California grizzly bear. Which was exterminated by the early 20th century.
Our state marine mammal is the gray whale, and our state insect is the California Dogface Butterfly.
There is a very endangered butterfly in the San Francisco area called a 'green hairstreak'. I think this is an excellent butterfly name.
| 104 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:49:48pm |
re: #98 Dark_Falcon
But 'no guns' isn't realistic. The scumbags will always find a way to get a weapon. England banned and confiscated all handguns, and that did not reduce gun crime.
This right wing claim is complete bullshit.
[Link: www.guninformation.org...]
| 105 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:50:00pm |
re: #77 marjoriemoon
I have family in Tucson. I love to visit. The Arizona desert is amazing. The mountains, flowers, varieties of cactus. We used to do a lot of hiking in Sabino Canyon and you can get some spelunking in if that's your thing.
The crazy has hurt tourism and it's a pity.
I've only been once, for a camping/SCA event.
| 106 |
Varek Raith Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:50:02pm |
re: #102 Floral Giraffe
I personally, don't see a need for weapons today, but I don't see a need to take the right to own & use them from folks who want to legallly own and use weapons, like guns. Knives also apply.
You stay the hell away from my swords!!!
/
| 107 |
SpaceJesus Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:50:37pm |
| 108 |
What, me worry? Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:50:40pm |
re: #82 Gus 802
Yeah. There was a time when Arizona was known for its desert beauty or the Grand Canyon. Now it's known as one of many wingnut states.
For sure, Arizona puts the wild in Wild West. I'm just saying it's a beautiful state. And actually, the Grand Canyon has lost its luster (purple mountain majesties) over the years from pollution. I've looked at pictures (albums) over a span of about 20 years and you can see the change. But I suppose that's another subject.
| 109 |
Renaissance_Man Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:51:16pm |
re: #85 Dark_Falcon
I don't consider Laughner's actions a product of a gun culture. They're the product of a lunatic who wasn't influenced by that culture.
I'm probably the most anti-gun person on this forum. But I don't think that a gun culture, per se, has a whole lot to do with the sort of mass murder you see all too much of in the US. Guns are so readily available that it becomes a lot easier, and certainly such examples of spontaneous mass murder are far less common in countries where firearms are harder to get, but a non-gun culture isn't necessarily going to prevent those sort of actions.
A gun culture produces the hundreds and thousands of little murders, and little injuries, that devastate families and cut down lives in their prime. The huge number of little murders that you never read about or hear about, because they're so commonplace that even local news barely covers them. A guy shoots another one over a neighbourhood dispute or parking spot. A suicidal parent kills the spouse. And so on, and so on. Those thousands of deaths that don't make the news are the real tragedy of the US gun culture.
| 110 |
SpaceJesus Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:51:34pm |
re: #107 SpaceJesus
on that note, colombia is absolutely insane and you could not pay me enough money to live there
| 111 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:51:40pm |
re: #78 b_sharp
I don't know about the butterfly, but the Gray whale is endangered, isn't it?
The Western Pacific population is. The Eastern Pacific population got taken off the list in 1994. I have no idea about the butterfly.
| 112 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:52:06pm |
re: #95 Charles
No doubt, it is a gun culture.
Hard to grow away from it.
Especially in Arizona, a border state, with the border so porous, as it is, today.
| 113 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:52:48pm |
re: #79 Obdicut
I like shooting guns. It's fun.
I like bowling, too. And fishing.
It's be kind of weird if the state named a state bowling ball, or bowling alley. Or a state fishing rod. Especially since this is kind of government endorsement of a private business.
New Mexico's official state cookie is the biscochito. Or the bizcochito. There is some disagreement about how to spell the official state cookie.
| 114 |
theheat Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:53:40pm |
re: #102 Floral Giraffe
If you've ever been stalked or the victim of a home invasion by your friendly neighborhood stalker, having a gun might literally save your life. It did mine. And I am pro gun ownership, if that's your bag.
OTOH, I think carrying them to schools and bars and political rallies is insanity. I think gun ownership making you some kind of rock star is also insanity. There are a lot of crazy, disagreeable, trigger happy idiots out there with guns, and they do all kinds of bad shit all the time.
| 115 |
Varek Raith Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:54:05pm |
re: #113 SanFranciscoZionist
New Mexico's official state cookie is the biscochito. Or the bizcochito. There is some disagreement about how to spell the official state cookie.
Virginia Ham is the state meat here.
Guess where I am???
:)
| 116 |
Targetpractice Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:54:32pm |
| 117 |
Varek Raith Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:54:34pm |
re: #115 Varek Raith
Virginia Ham is the state meat here.
Guess where I am???
:)
And it's damn good ham.
| 119 |
SpaceJesus Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:54:50pm |
world wide ban on guns. make it an offense worthy of 5 years imprisonment to own or manufacture a gun anywhere. any offense committed with a gun = automatic life sentence on conviction.
booyah, problem solved. next?
| 120 |
Obdicut Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:55:17pm |
re: #93 SpaceJesus
You never get to 'no guns' though.
I think we need better gun control, but that's not going to reduce criminal usage of guns, not significantly.
There's always a mix in gun crimes; sometimes the gun is the weapon because guns make certain crimes possible that wouldn't be otherwise, and sometimes it's just the weapon at hand. The husband who shoots his wife in a rage, who would have, without the gun, stabbed her to death, is statistically the same as a career criminal using a gun in armored car robberies, who shoots a guard.
In both cases a gun was used in a crime, but even if you removed the gun from the first scenario, the crime still occurs. (except for what I think is a small percentage influenced by a gun's convenience.) The second case still occurs because the criminals will get the armament. Even if you have strict gun laws, like the UK does, there will be illegal weapons out there, and the police will still have access to arms, even if they're not armed all the time.
So we always are going to have some guns in the population. I don't think denying them to people across the board is worth the infringement of freedom.
I would much rather the anti-gun people focused their energy on ending the War on Drugs and decriminalizing marijuana-- and hopefully placing other drug use into a treatment methedology than a criminal methodology. Doing that would do more to reduce the number of guns in the US, and especially the guns used in the commission of crimes, by a lot.
| 121 |
b_sharp Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:55:32pm |
re: #115 Varek Raith
Virginia Ham is the state meat here.
Guess where I am???
:)
Proxima Centauri IV.
| 122 |
Gus Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:55:32pm |
re: #119 SpaceJesus
world wide ban on guns. make it an offense worthy of 5 years imprisonment to own or manufacture a gun anywhere. any offense committed with a gun = automatic life sentence on conviction.
booyah, problem solved. next?
Well, that's why they call you SpaceJesus.
//
| 123 |
Varek Raith Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:55:46pm |
| 124 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:56:00pm |
re: #114 theheat
The story of the little kid, who brought a gun to school in his backpack & dropped it, this week, broke my heart. For him & his parents. But, WTF, how does your kid have access to a loaded weapon? C'MON!
[Link: news.yahoo.com...]
| 125 |
researchok Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:56:34pm |
re: #69 Charles
How many people have to die before you'd consider the possibly that America's infatuation with guns might be "a bad thing?"
The infatuation with guns is the problem.
In countries where gun ownership is nearly universal (Israel and Switzerland) due to mandatory military and military reserve duty, the per capita gun gun crime rate is very low.
In those countries, a gun is a tool and no more.
In America, guns are an extension of a particular identity, far more than just a tool. There is as you note, a real obsession with guns and for better or worse, the Palestinian are afflicted with the same mentality. 'We need guns, we want guns, it is our right' is the subtext of their obsession. They believe a gun empowers them and they use violence (and Americans gun nuts use the threat of violence) to project their manhood.
Any conversation about gun rights here may start with 'rights' usually ends with talk of 'make my day' laws.
| 126 |
Petero1818 Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:56:36pm |
I think these statistics speak for themselves.
Gun Deaths - International Comparisons
Gun deaths per 100,000 population (for the year indicated):
Homicide Suicide Other (inc Accident)
USA (2001) 3.98 5.92 0.36
Italy (1997) 0.81 1.1 0.07
Switzerland (1998) 0.50 5.8 0.10
Canada (2002) 0.4 2.0 0.04
Finland (2003) 0.35 4.45 0.10
Australia (2001) 0.24 1.34 0.10
France (2001) 0.21 3.4 0.49
England/Wales (2002)0.15 0.2 0.03
Scotland (2002) 0.06 0.2 0.02
Japan (2002) 0.02 0.04 0
| 127 |
bratwurst Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:56:56pm |
re: #98 Dark_Falcon
But 'no guns' isn't realistic. The scumbags will always find a way to get a weapon. England banned and confiscated all handguns, and that did not reduce gun crime.
About 30 seconds of research reveals that 8% of homicides in England and Wales are committed with firearms vs. 46% in this country and .12 firearm homicides per 100,000 population vs. 2.97 here. That sounds pretty good to me.
| 128 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:57:01pm |
re: #44 SanFranciscoZionist
If California DID have a state gun, what would our state gun be?
The Mare's Leg from Wanted Dead or Alive.
Twirly and super cool looking, but kind of pointless in real life.
| 129 |
freetoken Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:57:42pm |
re: #52 Charles
At the very least, voting to enshrine a 'state gun' so soon after the mass murder in Tucson is unbelievably tasteless.
I think it borders on insane.
My impression, perhaps drawn incorrectly, is that the shooting in Tucson actually helped spurred them on to do this move. In a sense, they're trying to reaffirm their beliefs by legislation as a way of giving the middle finger to all the social critics who point out America's, and Arizona's, infatuation with guns just might be a problem.
| 130 |
SpaceJesus Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:57:59pm |
re: #126 Petero1818
japan is what happens when 90 percent of the population has never even seen a gun in person before. we can do this for the entire world, it will just take decades of work.
| 131 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:58:10pm |
I actually agree that there's a place for personal gun ownership, with TIGHT regulations.
But to enshrine a 'state gun' is just completely insane. And especially this soon after one of the worst cases of gun violence in Arizona history.
| 132 |
theheat Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:58:48pm |
re: #124 Floral Giraffe
That happened in Texas, where they'd like to see more guns in schools. Obviously not in the hands of little kids, but...
| 133 |
Linden Arden Wed, Apr 20, 2011 7:59:11pm |
The sad truth about guns is that handgun/assault weapon bans lose elections for Democrats.
I am a classic liberal and cringe when I hear about gun bans - I know a single issue costs states in electoral colleges.
(disclosure - I own a S&W Model 27 that has not been fired in 19 years)
| 134 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:00:42pm |
I think that gun ownership, is a generational thing.
We as a society, will gradually grow out of it, and use guns for only sport, and defense ( as we currently do) but, we will start to think of them differently ( unless you are police) and maybe this discussion will be very different in 20 years.
| 135 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:00:49pm |
re: #130 SpaceJesus
japan is what happens when 90 percent of the population has never even seen a gun in person before. we can do this for the entire world, it will just take decades of work.
Tentacle porn and vending machines that sell used panties for everyone!
| 136 |
What, me worry? Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:00:53pm |
re: #114 theheat
When people argue for gun control, they mean "control" not "eliminate". But the first thing you hear when a Dem president is elected (happened with Clinton, too) is "They want my guns!"
We want waiting periods, registration, banning of assault weapons, etc. An honest gun owner shouldn't mind regulation if it helps to eliminate danger. Someone who wants to protect themselves or hunt can always do so.
| 137 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:01:29pm |
re: #135 goddamnedfrank
Tentacle porn and vending machines that sell used panties for everyone!
LOL!
| 138 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:02:38pm |
re: #80 Ojoe
It could be that someone with another firearm could have stopped the nutcase quite early.
That's all.
Gah that typical Wild west response, dude carrying gun saves the day VS dude carrying gun fucks it up.
Let's link!!
| 139 |
theheat Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:02:42pm |
re: #136 marjoriemoon
When people argue for gun control, they mean "control" not "eliminate". But the first thing you hear when a Dem president is elected (happened with Clinton, too) is "They want my guns!"
And the NRA milks that kind of paranoia for all its worth.
| 140 |
What, me worry? Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:02:59pm |
re: #129 freetoken
My impression, perhaps drawn incorrectly, is that the shooting in Tucson actually helped spurred them on to do this move. In a sense, they're trying to reaffirm their beliefs by legislation as a way of giving the middle finger to all the social critics who point out America's, and Arizona's, infatuation with guns just might be a problem.
How about giving a middle finger to all those whose lives have been forever changed by gun violence?
I really don't get it. It's like they're waving it in their faces.
| 141 |
b_sharp Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:02:59pm |
I have no trouble with gun ownership. I do have a problem with gun worship and killing for killing's sake.
| 142 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:03:06pm |
re: #136 marjoriemoon
When people argue for gun control, they mean "control" not "eliminate". But the first thing you hear when a Dem president is elected (happened with Clinton, too) is "They want my guns!"
We want waiting periods, registration, banning of assault weapons, etc. An honest gun owner shouldn't mind regulation if it helps to eliminate danger. Someone who wants to protect themselves or hunt can always do so.
a gun will only protect you if you have it close at hand and you know what's coming
| 143 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:03:20pm |
re: #139 theheat
Of COURSE, they do. It's their bread & butter.
| 144 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:03:35pm |
re: #129 freetoken
My impression, perhaps drawn incorrectly, is that the shooting in Tucson actually helped spurred them on to do this move. In a sense, they're trying to reaffirm their beliefs by legislation as a way of giving the middle finger to all the social critics who point out America's, and Arizona's, infatuation with guns just might be a problem.
Exactly right. The right wing reacts to a hideous mass murder by defiantly doubling down on their love of guns.
It's sick.
| 145 |
Gus Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:03:38pm |
re: #125 researchok
The infatuation with guns is the problem.
In countries where gun ownership is nearly universal (Israel and Switzerland) due to mandatory military and military reserve duty, the per capita gun gun crime rate is very low.
In those countries, a gun is a tool and no more.
In America, guns are an extension of a particular identity, far more than just a tool. There is as you note, a real obsession with guns and for better or worse, the Palestinian are afflicted with the same mentality. 'We need guns, we want guns, it is our right' is the subtext of their obsession. They believe a gun empowers them and they use violence (and Americans gun nuts use the threat of violence) to project their manhood.
Any conversation about gun rights here may start with 'rights' usually ends with talk of 'make my day' laws.
Infatuation to the point of obsession. It's almost like a religion and one that is mentioned every single day of the week. Gun protests, NRA, gun crimes, gun accidents, machine gun shoots, etc. Then there are the demands to allow guns in colleges classrooms, churches, bars, and in every single public space you can think of. Guns, guns, guns. Guns on TV. Guns in movies. Guns in the hands of soldiers. Guns in our national songs. Guns in our history. Guns in our literature. Guns in space. 6 years old with guns. Gun suicides. Gun runners. Guns in the hands of drug warlords.
What gun obsession?
| 146 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:03:38pm |
re: #80 Ojoe
It could be that someone with another firearm could have stopped the nutcase quite early.
That's all.
How is that working out for Somalia?
| 147 |
b_sharp Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:04:06pm |
re: #142 WindUpBird
a gun will only protect you if you have it close at hand and you know what's coming
Not many criminals broadcast their intentions.
| 148 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:04:11pm |
re: #80 Ojoe
It could be that someone with another firearm could have stopped the nutcase quite early.
That's all.
*makes universal wanking handsign*
didn't know the NRA was on LGF
| 149 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:04:35pm |
re: #142 WindUpBird
a gun will only protect you if you have it close at hand and you know what's coming
And, YOU ARE PREPARED TO FIRE IT AND HIT YOUR TARGET.
(Most folks are not.)
| 150 |
Daniel Ballard Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:04:53pm |
re: #119 SpaceJesus
And the single woman, or elder person gets to use at best harsh language or TV remotes to defend themselves from human predators with numbers or other weapons.
Hoo effing ray for the good guys...
| 151 |
bratwurst Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:05:00pm |
re: #148 WindUpBird
*makes universal wanking handsign*
didn't know the NRA was on LGF
Come on, WUB...EVERYBODY knows the only solution to gin violence is more guns!
| 152 |
What, me worry? Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:05:03pm |
re: #142 WindUpBird
a gun will only protect you if you have it close at hand and you know what's coming
Well I'm not for eliminating guns. It's as unconstitutional as say... oh... I don't know... teaching religion in school?
Anyway, it doesn't have to be all or nothing.
| 153 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:05:04pm |
| 154 |
Targetpractice Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:05:04pm |
re: #139 theheat
And the NRA milks that kind of paranoia for all its worth.
Yep, I remember in '08 the grim specter of the AWB being waved around as reason for NRA members to vote against Obama. And the fire sales that all the gun shops were holding the day after the election, with signs saying "Come buy a gun, before Obama grabs them all!"
You breath the words "gun control" around the NRA and they got into a screaming fit, even though they always declare that they're for "responsible" gun ownership when pressed on the matter.
| 155 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:05:05pm |
re: #85 Dark_Falcon
I don't consider Laughner's actions a product of a gun culture. They're the product of a lunatic who wasn't influenced by that culture.
Sorry Dark, the ease with which he both acquired a weapon, and was able to bring it within shooting range of so many people are very much a product of our gun culture.
He probably could have done it even with stricter laws in place, but it wouldn't have been damn near so easy for him...
| 156 |
jaunte Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:06:00pm |
Everyone who admires Chris and Tim, and everyone who loves them, has a debt of gratitude to Human Rights Watch and to the International Organization for Migration, who together, on extremely short notice, bent the world to get Chris’s and Tim’s remains on the Ionian Spirit, the evacuation vessel that by chance was briefly in Misurata port tonight. The vessel delayed its departure to take them aboard and begin their journeys out. Tim was brought down first, while Chris clung to life. When Chris died, there seemed no time to get him there. But HRW worked the phones, pleading by satellite call to the pier to have the ship held up again. They simultaneously urged one of Chris’s and Tim’s colleagues at the triage center to get Chris’s remains en route through the besieged city by ambulance, assessing — correctly as it turned out — that if they could honestly say that he was on his way that no captain would leave the pier.They were right. Chris and Tim are at sea now, heading toward Benghazi, which means, in the indirect but solemn ways that the fallen travel from battlefields, that they are heading home.
| 157 |
theheat Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:06:09pm |
re: #143 Floral Giraffe
It's why I own a gun, but won't send those hysterical pricks a cent. The NRA fuels incoherent nuttery and gives the wingnuts another cause to nail on their back.
| 158 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:06:39pm |
re: #157 theheat
It's why I own a gun, but won't send those hysterical pricks a cent. The NRA fuels incoherent nuttery and gives the wingnuts another cause to nail on their back.
My father dropped his NRA membership at the same time George H.W. Bush did.
| 159 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:06:54pm |
Backing away, for a bit.
You can take this discussion where you choose.
BBL.
*smooches*
| 160 |
Interesting Times Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:07:08pm |
re: #151 bratwurst
Come on, WUB...EVERYBODY knows the only solution to gin violence is more guns!
I suspect the people advocating conceal-carry in bars had the same idea...
| 162 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:07:14pm |
re: #149 Floral Giraffe
And, YOU ARE PREPARED TO FIRE IT AND HIT YOUR TARGET.
(Most folks are not.)
also exactly!
Like, i could see defending a fixed point of which I am worried. Like mye example of being armed at my own hypothetical gallery opening with the hypothetical hammer guys
Or having a conceal carry if I'm really expecting trouble on a daily basis
But guns, and gun ownership is like 99% ego, 1% safety. it's tribalism. it's projection of personality, of ego. it's the illusion of safety, the illusion of power. Not real power.
The phenomenon of the TSA, the illusion of security calming people down? Same thing with guns. The illusion is what they hold close.
| 163 |
bratwurst Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:08:00pm |
re: #160 publicityStunted
I suspect the people advocating conceal-carry in bars had the same idea...
Holy Freudian slip! For the record, I am a mellow drunk. ;)
| 164 |
Daniel Ballard Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:08:10pm |
To the gun control/ anti gun posters-Okay lets say guns are all illegal at all times. Just for a thought experiment.
You then have to ask yourself-What would the "device" of last resort be for an ordinary citizen when confronted (perhaps at home perhaps elsewhere) with violent rape or murder by a human predator? What will we allow them to have if not a contemporary weapon?
| 165 |
SpaceJesus Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:08:43pm |
re: #150 Rightwingconspirator
for every one of those situations, there are dozens where guns made things worse.
| 166 |
Daniel Ballard Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:08:47pm |
re: #149 Floral Giraffe
And, YOU ARE PREPARED TO FIRE IT AND HIT YOUR TARGET.
(Most folks are not.)
Yes we are.
| 167 |
theheat Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:08:48pm |
re: #158 SanFranciscoZionist
My father dropped his NRA membership at the same time George H.W. Bush did.
Want to guess if canned hunt lawyer blastin' Cheney's still a member? I'm thinking... yeah.
| 168 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:09:47pm |
re: #164 Rightwingconspirator
To the gun control/ anti gun posters-Okay lets say guns are all illegal at all times. Just for a thought experiment.
You then have to ask yourself-What would the "device" of last resort be for an ordinary citizen when confronted (perhaps at home perhaps elsewhere) with violent rape or murder by a human predator? What will we allow them to have if not a contemporary weapon?
"To the gun control/ anti gun posters-Okay lets say guns are all illegal at all times. Just for a thought experiment."
No lets not say that.
Because that is a fucking stupid strawman that no one in their right mind on this board is trying to advance and by bringing it up you deflect away from the real issue.
| 169 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:09:48pm |
re: #164 Rightwingconspirator
To the gun control/ anti gun posters-Okay lets say guns are all illegal at all times. Just for a thought experiment.
You then have to ask yourself-What would the "device" of last resort be for an ordinary citizen when confronted (perhaps at home perhaps elsewhere) with violent rape or murder by a human predator? What will we allow them to have if not a contemporary weapon?
I'm not anti-gun so much as I am suspicious of gun culture, disgusted by the pigs in the NRA, and tired of lies about people thinking everyone packing will magically solve problems.
I'm an oregonian, I'm fine with guns. We have weaker gun laws than texas. But the weirdass cultural one-issue-voter attitude towards them, I cannot relate. My brain does not operate in a way that allows me to sympathize.
| 170 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:10:11pm |
re: #164 Rightwingconspirator
To the gun control/ anti gun posters-Okay lets say guns are all illegal at all times. Just for a thought experiment.
You then have to ask yourself-What would the "device" of last resort be for an ordinary citizen when confronted (perhaps at home perhaps elsewhere) with violent rape or murder by a human predator? What will we allow them to have if not a contemporary weapon?
Also to answer your question, a tazer.
| 171 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:10:21pm |
re: #147 b_sharp
Not many criminals broadcast their intentions.
True, but I'll be damned if I'm going to let the Riddler take me down.
| 172 |
Linden Arden Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:10:29pm |
| 173 |
Varek Raith Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:10:51pm |
| 174 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:10:52pm |
re: #167 theheat
Want to guess if canned hunt lawyer blastin' Cheney's still a member? I'm thinking... yeah.
of course!
I mean, what do you expect from a fat old guy with a bad heart. I'm surprised he wasn't hunting from a wheelchair
| 175 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:11:01pm |
| 176 |
Gus Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:11:41pm |
re: #172 Linden Arden
Yet a Super Bowl nip slip gets a $250,000 fine.
As usual. We have strange priorities as a society. You can't see nudity or sex on broadcast TV yet most of us grew up seeing every kind of violent crime imaginable.
| 177 |
researchok Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:11:45pm |
re: #145 Gus 802
Infatuation to the point of obsession. It's almost like a religion and one that is mentioned every single day of the week. Gun protests, NRA, gun crimes, gun accidents, machine gun shoots, etc. Then there are the demands to allow guns in colleges classrooms, churches, bars, and in every single public space you can think of. Guns, guns, guns. Guns on TV. Guns in movies. Guns in the hands of soldiers. Guns in our national songs. Guns in our history. Guns in our literature. Guns in space. 6 years old with guns. Gun suicides. Gun runners. Guns in the hands of drug warlords.
What gun obsession?
I would add another more nuanced observation.
When violence or threats of violence are considered legitimate forms of political or social expression, inevitably violence or threats of violence will manifest themselves here. Terror and gun violence have becomes an accepted form of political and social expression, a status often granted by those who most profess to be non violent or peaceful.
When horrific violence is excused, it is inevitable and only a matter of time before we that kind of violence manifested here at home- and that on;ly feeds the gun nuts more red meat.
Think post Columbine, VA Tech and the gun nuts who went wild afterwards.
| 178 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:12:11pm |
re: #164 Rightwingconspirator
To the gun control/ anti gun posters-Okay lets say guns are all illegal at all times. Just for a thought experiment.
You then have to ask yourself-What would the "device" of last resort be for an ordinary citizen when confronted (perhaps at home perhaps elsewhere) with violent rape or murder by a human predator? What will we allow them to have if not a contemporary weapon?
Regardless of how anyone feels about gun control, let's not lose sight of the issue here. Republicans in Arizona have reacted to an appalling case of mass murder by concealed weapon, by enshrining a STATE GUN.
I'm at a complete loss to understand how any sane person can consider this to be a rational way of dealing with these issues.
| 179 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:12:15pm |
re: #164 Rightwingconspirator
To the gun control/ anti gun posters-Okay lets say guns are all illegal at all times. Just for a thought experiment.
You then have to ask yourself-What would the "device" of last resort be for an ordinary citizen when confronted (perhaps at home perhaps elsewhere) with violent rape or murder by a human predator? What will we allow them to have if not a contemporary weapon?
NRA talking point
20 yard penalty
| 180 |
b_sharp Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:12:47pm |
re: #164 Rightwingconspirator
To the gun control/ anti gun posters-Okay lets say guns are all illegal at all times. Just for a thought experiment.
You then have to ask yourself-What would the "device" of last resort be for an ordinary citizen when confronted (perhaps at home perhaps elsewhere) with violent rape or murder by a human predator? What will we allow them to have if not a contemporary weapon?
How about we turn that about and ask, if the person had a gun what would happen during a home invasion?
What conditions would have to be met for the gun to be useful? The gun would have to be in the same room as the victim. It would have to be loaded. It could not be in a gun safe or have a trigger lock.
Or the criminal would have to make his presence known far enough ahead for the victim to prepare herself and her gun.
That is a recipe for creating silent, armed gangs of criminals.
| 182 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:12:57pm |
re: #164 Rightwingconspirator
To the gun control/ anti gun posters-Okay lets say guns are all illegal at all times. Just for a thought experiment.
You then have to ask yourself-What would the "device" of last resort be for an ordinary citizen when confronted (perhaps at home perhaps elsewhere) with violent rape or murder by a human predator? What will we allow them to have if not a contemporary weapon?
Or a gun loaded with rubber bullets... or a shotgun loaded with beanbag rounds...
Or a painball gun loaded with pellets of mace....
There are only about half a dozen different ways to create weapons which can incapacitate at range while being much much harder to kill with than your average everyday gun....
| 183 |
Daniel Ballard Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:13:45pm |
re: #165 SpaceJesus
That has more to do with illegal uses of guns than legal uses of guns. The guns that made things worse are most often in the hands of criminals. So of course when we look at statistics from violent events like murder, rape and assault the guns look like the cause. But of course they are just abused devices in these cases.
| 184 |
Petero1818 Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:14:05pm |
I don't mean to offend in any way, but I think you have to be American to not see the stupidity of this argument. The rest of the world seems to have figured it out. More guns, more dead people. It's easy math.
| 185 |
jaunte Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:14:13pm |
re: #180 b_sharp
The gun would have to be in the same room as the victim. It would have to be loaded. It could not be in a gun safe or have a trigger lock.
Then, you would have to have the snap not to let your elementary student take it to school in a backpack.
| 186 |
b_sharp Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:14:15pm |
re: #171 goddamnedfrank
True, but I'll be damned if I'm going to let the Riddler take me down.
What if he brings Two-face along?
| 187 |
Obdicut Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:14:16pm |
re: #166 Rightwingconspirator
But not all of you really are. Only the good, responsible ones, like you.
It is very easy for me to support gun control when I think it'll actually restrict gun ownership-- legal ownership-- to the competent and careful. Our current system is most definitely not doing that. It's not even really attempting to do that.
It is tricky as hell to figure out what to do; I don't believe strongly in the efficacy of gun bans, but I really would like a form of test for gun ownership, one that would have to be taken quite seriously. And be repeated. I want to know, if I see someone in public carrying a gun-- or if I'm somewhere I know theres' concealed carry-- I want to have confidence in that person with the gun, that they're not going to cowboy out a fantasy if something goes wrong and wind up shooting someone.
If you only go through narrative, then of course it's easy to create a situation where it would be good if the person had a gun. You can also construct the situation where the gun is in the other hand. The real question is how to make sure that competent people who can handle the responsibility are the ones with guns.
That is not an insignificant challenge.
| 188 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:14:59pm |
re: #183 Rightwingconspirator
gun culture empowers criminals with guns, it gives them cover, and a vast vast vast vast market of firearms to choose from
Getting an illegal gun now? Easy as pie, easy as scoring weed
| 189 |
Daniel Ballard Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:15:10pm |
re: #168 jamesfirecat
"To the gun control/ anti gun posters-Okay lets say guns are all illegal at all times. Just for a thought experiment."
No lets not say that.
Because that is a fucking stupid strawman that no one in their right mind on this board is trying to advance and by bringing it up you deflect away from the real issue.
Do you not get the concept of thought experiment to take an issue to another alternative set of options? Sheesh.
| 190 |
Targetpractice Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:16:12pm |
re: #164 Rightwingconspirator
To the gun control/ anti gun posters-Okay lets say guns are all illegal at all times. Just for a thought experiment.
You then have to ask yourself-What would the "device" of last resort be for an ordinary citizen when confronted (perhaps at home perhaps elsewhere) with violent rape or murder by a human predator? What will we allow them to have if not a contemporary weapon?
So I'm in the living room, watching House, while my gun is in a gun safe and the rounds for it locked in my desk, both halfway across the house. If a guy decides to kick in my front door, what good is that gun going to do me?
| 191 |
theheat Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:16:25pm |
re: #174 WindUpBird
I mean, what do you expect from a fat old guy with a bad heart. I'm surprised he wasn't hunting from a wheelchair
Speaking of, one of our neighbors bought a bunch of property near us so people handicapped people can hunt from wheelchairs and such. He's a mondo dick, FWIW. He thinks this is the next big thang, and applied for state grants.
I thought, what kind of mental illness do people possess where they have suffered some kind of physical injury or defect themselves, that doesn't give them a second of pause before they go kill something?
And do I really want bullets flying all around me and my animals- on flatland prairie - from people with physical disabilities? Fuck no.
I told our capitalistic neighbor should one stray bullet from his "gimp hunts" ever reach any of my critters... You can fill in the rest.
| 192 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:16:54pm |
re: #10 makeitstop
What happens if you shoot the state bird with the state gun? /
You get a state dinner?
| 193 |
Gus Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:16:54pm |
re: #188 WindUpBird
gun culture empowers criminals with guns, it gives them cover, and a vast vast vast vast market of firearms to choose from
Getting an illegal gun now? Easy as pie, easy as scoring weed
Or one of the worst. Gun shows and gun show loopholes.
| 194 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:17:23pm |
re: #187 Obdicut
I think gun ownership should at least have the hurdles of car ownership.
Licenses, multiple tests, retesting, take the gun in every few years, show it to a guy, he checks it off, done.
| 195 |
Varek Raith Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:17:26pm |
| 196 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:17:54pm |
re: #191 theheat
Humans are animals. i think our base nature is to kill.
base nature is boring! I'd rather be constructive.
| 197 |
researchok Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:17:57pm |
re: #190 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
So I'm in the living room, watching House, while my gun is in a gun safe and the rounds for it locked in my desk, both halfway across the house. If a guy decides to kick in my front door, what good is that gun going to do me?
The problem has never been responsible gun ownership. Responsible gun owners worry about safety.
Illegal gun ownership is a whole other conversation.
| 198 |
Obdicut Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:18:12pm |
re: #191 theheat
Er, dude, I don't see anything wrong with someone who was crippled hunting. I don't think it indicates a mental illness. I think it shows that they like hunting.
I don't particularly like hunting, but I have zero problem with hunters. They tend to be a lot more conservationist, a lot more into sustainability, than the average person.
A hunter who wastes the meat, though, them I despise.
| 199 |
Gus Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:18:23pm |
S.35 -- Gun Show Background Check Act of 2011 (Introduced in Senate - IS)
SEC. 2. GUN SHOW BACKGROUND CHECK.
(a) Findings- Congress finds that--
(1) approximately 5,200 traditional gun shows are held annually across the United States, attracting thousands of attendees per show and hundreds of Federal firearms licensees and nonlicensed firearms sellers;
(2) traditional gun shows, as well as flea markets and other organized events, at which a large number of firearms are offered for sale by Federal firearms licensees and nonlicensed firearms sellers, form a significant part of the national firearms market;
(3) firearms and ammunition that are exhibited or offered for sale or exchange at gun shows, flea markets, and other organized events move easily in and substantially affect interstate commerce;
(4) in fact, even before a firearm is exhibited or offered for sale or exchange at a gun show, flea market, or other organized event, the gun, its component parts, ammunition, and the raw materials from which it is manufactured have moved in interstate commerce;
(5) gun shows, flea markets, and other organized events at which firearms are exhibited or offered for sale or exchange, provide a convenient and centralized commercial location at which firearms may be bought and sold anonymously, often without background checks and without records that enable gun tracing;
(6) at gun shows, flea markets, and other organized events at which guns are exhibited or offered for sale or exchange, criminals and other prohibited persons obtain guns without background checks and frequently use guns that cannot be traced to later commit crimes;
(7) since the enactment of the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act (Public Law 103-59; 107 Stat. 1536) in 1993, over 100,000,000 background checks have been performed by Federal firearms licensees, denying guns to more than 1,600,000 illegal buyers;
(8) many persons who buy and sell firearms at gun shows, flea markets, and other organized events cross State lines to attend these events and engage in the interstate transportation of firearms obtained at these events;
(9) gun violence is a pervasive, national problem that is exacerbated by the availability of guns at gun shows, flea markets, and other organized events;
(10) firearms associated with gun shows have been transferred illegally to residents of another State by Federal firearms licensees and nonlicensed firearms sellers, and have been involved in subsequent crimes including drug offenses, crimes of violence, property crimes, and illegal possession of firearms by felons and other prohibited persons; and
(11) Congress has the power, under the interstate commerce clause and other provisions of the Constitution of the United States, to ensure, by enactment of this Act, that criminals and other prohibited persons do not obtain firearms at gun shows, flea markets, and other organized events.
| 200 |
Daniel Ballard Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:18:33pm |
re: #182 jamesfirecat
Or a gun loaded with rubber bullets... or a shotgun loaded with beanbag rounds...
Or a painball gun loaded with pellets of mace...
There are only about half a dozen different ways to create weapons which can incapacitate at range while being much much harder to kill with than your average everyday gun...
Less lethal options are illegal, often at felony level for us as ordinary folks. The pepper spray I can buy is one tenth the strength of what cops carry. Tasers are for cops only. Rubber bullets are for cops only. I like the idea of letting people have access to less lethal devices. But for fear of abuse, those too are forbidden.
| 201 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:18:40pm |
re: #193 Gus 802
Or one of the worst. Gun shows and gun show loopholes.
yep!
The NRA is just a lobbying group for paranoids
| 202 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:19:00pm |
re: #189 Rightwingconspirator
Do you not get the concept of thought experiment to take an issue to another alternative set of options? Sheesh.
See my series of answers to your question that I provided afterwards.
Tazer, make it so that ordinary people can only buy rubber bullets/beanbag rounds/ paintgun loaded with mace pellets...
Any of these would be more than capable of disabling a foe at range while at the same time being much harder to conduct a mass slaughter with.
| 204 |
jaunte Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:19:34pm |
re: #201 WindUpBird
yep!
The NRA is just a lobbying group for paranoids
They're not going to get caught watching House without one in the chamber.
| 205 |
TNChuckster Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:20:21pm |
re: #170 jamesfirecat
Read that 2 airline employees were beaten on an Atlanta subway train by 20-25 youths. If only those two had tasers.
Armed, trained security on the car would have been welcome.
| 206 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:20:22pm |
re: #200 Rightwingconspirator
Less lethal options are illegal, often at felony level for us as ordinary folks. The pepper spray I can buy is one tenth the strength of what cops carry. Tasers are for cops only. Rubber bullets are for cops only. I like the idea of letting people have access to less lethal devices. But for fear of abuse, those too are forbidden.
which is one of America's great cancers.
it's one of the great evils of America. If you want to defend yourself?
The government has set it up to encourage lethal force.
America, yeah!
| 207 |
Gus Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:20:22pm |
That's a problem. No one can look at me with a straight face and tell me that that's acceptable.
| 208 |
theheat Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:20:34pm |
re: #198 Obdicut
They tend to be a lot more conservationist, a lot more into sustainability.
Conservationist, my ass. The only conservation they're into is having more land set aside for hunting, longer seasons, cheaper licenses, and bigger limits.
| 209 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:20:35pm |
re: #204 jaunte
They're not going to get caught watching House without one in the chamber.
It's gone downhill, that show :(
| 210 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:20:49pm |
re: #200 Rightwingconspirator
Less lethal options are illegal, often at felony level for us as ordinary folks. The pepper spray I can buy is one tenth the strength of what cops carry. Tasers are for cops only. Rubber bullets are for cops only. I like the idea of letting people have access to less lethal devices. But for fear of abuse, those too are forbidden.
WHAT THE F***?
What is the "fear and abuse" that is going to come about from letting civvies have access to less lethal weaponry that could possibly be worse than letting them have access to actual guns?
Our legal system is f***ed up!
| 211 |
What, me worry? Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:20:56pm |
re: #189 Rightwingconspirator
Do you not get the concept of thought experiment to take an issue to another alternative set of options? Sheesh.
If guns didn't exist, you would be forced to taunt them - from a respectable distance, of course - something like "you empty headed animal food trough wiper. Your mother was a hamster and you father smelt of elderberries!"
What were you thinking of?
| 212 |
Varek Raith Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:21:02pm |
re: #196 WindUpBird
Humans are animals. i think our base nature is to kill.
base nature is boring! I'd rather be constructive.
Indeed.
I just took a dose of Cipro.
Take that, sinus infection!!!!
| 213 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:21:18pm |
can'tgetsuckedintocirculargunarguments
can'tgetsuckedintocirculargunarguments
can'tgetsuckedintocirculargunarguments
later guys :D
| 214 |
b_sharp Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:21:40pm |
re: #197 researchok
The problem has never been responsible gun ownership. Responsible gun owners worry about safety.
Illegal gun ownership is a whole other conversation.
The problem is the belief that a gun solves problems better than other methods in all cases of threat.
| 215 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:21:41pm |
re: #212 Varek Raith
Indeed.
I just took a dose of Cipro.
Take that, sinus infection!!!
Bactericide! How can you look in the mirror!
| 216 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:21:42pm |
I actually interrupted a bloody assault on a woman once about nine years ago by using a firearm. Of course I had already called the cops, was three stories above the action leaning out my apartment window yelling and shaking my rifle like Chewbacca, but it worked. The dude stopped beating the shit out of his girlfriend long enough for the police to get there.
/realizes this experience isn't typical.
| 217 |
Varek Raith Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:21:49pm |
re: #207 Gus 802
That's a problem. No one can look at me with a straight face and tell me that that's acceptable.
I'll tell you once my RGP7 arrives.
/
| 218 |
Daniel Ballard Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:22:09pm |
re: #190 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
So I'm in the living room, watching House, while my gun is in a gun safe and the rounds for it locked in my desk, both halfway across the house. If a guy decides to kick in my front door, what good is that gun going to do me?
None. But if I have a loaded gun in a fast release lockbox the spouse in that end of the house has a fighting chance. But we can play circumstance games all day.
| 219 |
Varek Raith Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:22:42pm |
| 220 |
Linden Arden Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:23:00pm |
re: #213 WindUpBird
Its tough - it bridges morality.
I know I felt sick about the GoDaddy asshole who shot an elephant for sport.
Morally - I wish that asshole were dead and the elephant lived.
| 221 |
Daniel Ballard Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:23:13pm |
re: #206 WindUpBird
which is one of America's great cancers.
it's one of the great evils of America. If you want to defend yourself?
The government has set it up to encourage lethal force.
America, yeah!
That sucks. We should have the full range of options. But remember fear of abuse got us there.
| 222 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:23:21pm |
re: #216 goddamnedfrank
I actually interrupted a bloody assault on a woman once about nine years ago by using a firearm. Of course I had already called the cops, was three stories above the action leaning out my apartment window yelling and shaking my rifle like Chewbacca, but it worked. The dude stopped beating the shit out of his girlfriend long enough for the police to get there.
/realizes this experience isn't typical.
sand people!
ARRRRGH ARRRRRRGH!!!!
| 223 |
researchok Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:23:27pm |
| 224 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:23:49pm |
re: #221 Rightwingconspirator
That sucks. We should have the full range of options. But remember fear of abuse got us there.
but fear of abuse of actual firearms is AOK in America, is what I'm saying
| 225 |
Daniel Ballard Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:23:52pm |
re: #210 jamesfirecat
WHAT THE F***?
What is the "fear and abuse" that is going to come about from letting civvies have access to less lethal weaponry that could possibly be worse than letting them have access to actual guns?
Our legal system is f***ed up!
Yes it is.
| 227 |
Targetpractice Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:24:29pm |
re: #200 Rightwingconspirator
Less lethal options are illegal, often at felony level for us as ordinary folks. The pepper spray I can buy is one tenth the strength of what cops carry. Tasers are for cops only. Rubber bullets are for cops only. I like the idea of letting people have access to less lethal devices. But for fear of abuse, those too are forbidden.
Let's think about this for a second. Why would they fear that such options might be abused? Could it be because we as a society are trigger happy, and if given an alternative that was less lethal, might be more inclined to use such force even more haphazardly than we do with lethal force?
America, what a country! *rolls eyes*
| 228 |
What, me worry? Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:24:35pm |
re: #196 WindUpBird
Humans are animals. i think our base nature is to kill.
base nature is boring! I'd rather be constructive.
I thought our base nature is to fuck.
| 229 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:24:44pm |
re: #221 Rightwingconspirator
That sucks. We should have the full range of options. But remember fear of abuse got us there.
Could you please explain this "fear of abuse" thing to me more fully?
Why is it more dangerous for a civilian to have a tazer than it is for them to have a 17 round semi-automatic concealable pistol?
WHO THINKS LIKE THAT?
| 230 |
Obdicut Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:25:20pm |
re: #208 theheat
There may be different hunting cultures, and I was happy enough to blunder into a very ecologically minded one, but the guys that I met were staunch conservationists, including supporting the reintroduction of wolves-- and no, not just so they could shoot them.
A hunter vs. a farmer/rancher-- the hunter is going to be by far the more conservationist.
I don't think that people depending on the mechanized agriculture of the US really have a moral leg-up on hunters. Considering the number of animals that die just to make an acre of wheat, I mean.
| 231 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:25:36pm |
re: #188 WindUpBird
Getting an illegal gun now? Easy as pie, easy as scoring weed
It's actually much easier.
| 232 |
researchok Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:25:59pm |
re: #207 Gus 802
That's a problem. No one can look at me with a straight face and tell me that that's acceptable.
What bothers me is no one wants to find a responsible middle ground.
It's become an all or nothing, phony slippery slope game.
That's why we have the loopholes you note.
| 233 |
Mocking Jay Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:26:35pm |
re: #229 jamesfirecat
Could you please explain this "fear of abuse" thing to me more fully?
Why is it more dangerous for a civilian to have a tazer than it is for them to have a 17 round semi-automatic concealable pistol?
WHO THINKS LIKE THAT?
I think the idea is that someone's much more likely to use a tazer simply because it's non-lethal. I'm not saying I agree, but I believe that's the train of thought.
| 234 |
Linden Arden Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:26:40pm |
| 235 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:26:52pm |
re: #144 Charles
Exactly right. The right wing reacts to a hideous mass murder by defiantly doubling down on their love of guns.
It's sick.
Non victims, always victimizied. See frame flipping .
(I'm typing from iPhone. So far behind)
| 236 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:26:59pm |
re: #227 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Let's think about this for a second. Why would they fear that such options might be abused? Could it be because we as a society are trigger happy, and if given an alternative that was less lethal, might be more inclined to use such force even more haphazardly than we do with lethal force?
America, what a country! *rolls eyes*
The Tazer your little friend to make life more fun!
Somebody cuts in line in front of you? TAZER!
Tall guy who won't shut up sits in front of you at the movie theater? TAZER!
Guy cuts you off while driving? Follow him till he parks then TAZER!
Yes you two can see all the assholes you encounter in modern day life reduced to wildly flailing their limbs about as they lay on the floor in a crumpled heap!
| 237 |
Petero1818 Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:27:15pm |
re: #231 Charles
It's actually much easier.
Not only that, but once you have the gun, it makes it much easier to get the weed, maybe even for free.
| 238 |
bratwurst Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:27:53pm |
re: #233 JasonA
I think the idea is that someone's much more likely to use a tazer simply because it's non-lethal. I'm not saying I agree, but I believe that's the train of thought.
Doesn't stop them from being used on television news reporters every year during sweeps time!
| 239 |
Gus Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:28:20pm |
re: #232 researchok
What bothers me is no one wants to find a responsible middle ground.
It's become an all or nothing, phony slippery slope game.
That's why we have the loopholes you note.
Right. And I ask, what's the big deal about requiring background checks at gun shows? And enforcement of said laws. We regulate just about everything but we can't have background checks for lethal weapons? Supporting background checks and the like is not a call to ban weapons. Not in the least.
| 240 |
Daniel Ballard Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:28:27pm |
re: #187 Obdicut
Most of my gun owning pals would shudder and cuss me out at the requirements I would impose for CCW or loaded guns for defense at home.
| 242 |
Mocking Jay Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:29:04pm |
re: #238 bratwurst
Doesn't stop them from being used on television news reporters every year during sweeps time!
It's all fun and games until one of those barbs finds someone's sack...
| 243 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:29:25pm |
re: #216 goddamnedfrank
I actually interrupted a bloody assault on a woman once about nine years ago by using a firearm. Of course I had already called the cops, was three stories above the action leaning out my apartment window yelling and shaking my rifle like Chewbacca, but it worked. The dude stopped beating the shit out of his girlfriend long enough for the police to get there.
/realizes this experience isn't typical.
Good on you, Frank. Your stock with me just went up a couple of points.
| 244 |
Daniel Ballard Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:30:28pm |
re: #229 jamesfirecat
Could you please explain this "fear of abuse" thing to me more fully?
Why is it more dangerous for a civilian to have a tazer than it is for them to have a 17 round semi-automatic concealable pistol?
WHO THINKS LIKE THAT?
I disagree so strongly with that insanity I can not justify it, just point it out.
| 245 |
b_sharp Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:31:06pm |
MAD worked with nuclear weapons. I don't think it will work with firearms.
| 247 |
researchok Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:31:13pm |
re: #239 Gus 802
Right. And I ask, what's the big deal about requiring background checks at gun shows? And enforcement of said laws. We regulate just about everything but we can't have background checks for lethal weapons? Supporting background checks and the like is not a call to ban weapons. Not in the least.
I'm with you 100% on that. I have no issue with background checks and cooling off periods to purchase both guns and ammunition.
The slippery slope people have their argument reinforced when that slice of gun control freaks insist their goal is to eliminate the sale of guns altogether.
Naturally, the NRA plays that to the hilt.
| 248 |
Petero1818 Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:31:18pm |
re: #239 Gus 802
Right. And I ask, what's the big deal about requiring background checks at gun shows? And enforcement of said laws. We regulate just about everything but we can't have background checks for lethal weapons? Supporting background checks and the like is not a call to ban weapons. Not in the least.
There should be no such thing as a gun show. Distribution must be regulated strictly. Christ, you can't buy Codeine pills in the US without a prescription and there are no Pharmaceutical Shows as far as I am aware. Gun dealers should only be permitted to sell from a fixed address with cameras on at all times, and with waiting periods.
| 249 |
Robert O. Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:31:21pm |
Arizona: Where it is easier for a lunatic to buy a gun than it is for a Latino to vote.
| 250 |
theheat Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:32:08pm |
re: #230 Obdicut
I have to be someplace in a half hour, but I'll leave you with this retread that's been going around since before I was born,"But if we didn't kill them, they'd die of starvation!"
It's never about protecting the habitat (damn the EPA and fuck the Sierra Club!), or non-lethal methods to curb overpopulation, it's just about accessing the habitat as hunters so they can kill more. "Because otherwise they'd die!"
And, of course, saving them from d-e-a-t-h by that "conservationist" approach of hunting them from planes. Because, dammit, they care so much.
| 251 |
Gus Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:33:57pm |
re: #248 Petero1818
There should be no such thing as a gun show. Distribution must be regulated strictly. Christ, you can't buy Codeine pills in the US without a prescription and there are no Pharmaceutical Shows as far as I am aware. Gun dealers should only be permitted to sell from a fixed address with cameras on at all times, and with waiting periods.
I don't know. While I think there's a problem with the gun show loopholes I also don't think that stopping gun shows would prevent people from purchasing guns with criminal backgrounds. It would be a lot easier to just regulate and monitor the damn things.
| 252 |
Targetpractice Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:34:13pm |
re: #236 jamesfirecat
The Tazer your little friend to make life more fun!
Somebody cuts in line in front of you? TAZER!
Tall guy who won't shut up sits in front of you at the movie theater? TAZER!
Guy cuts you off while driving? Follow him till he parks then TAZER!
Yes you two can see all the assholes you encounter in modern day life reduced to wildly flailing their limbs about as they lay on the floor in a crumpled heap!
"What are you in for?"
"Shot my buddy with a tazer."
"Why the fuck are you in here for that?"
"He had a bad ticker, but I didn't know that til he stopped moving when I tazed him."
"And what the hell were you shooting him for?"
"We were at a party, and he thought it'd be funny to get shot with a tazer. And I was drunk, so I wasn't thinking."
| 253 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:34:14pm |
re: #231 Charles
Getting an illegal gun now? Easy as pie, easy as scoring weed
It's actually much easier.
It's the LEGAL weapons that are so difficult.
| 254 |
researchok Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:34:57pm |
re: #251 Gus 802
I don't know. While I think there's a problem with the gun show loopholes I also don't think that stopping gun shows would prevent people from purchasing guns with criminal backgrounds. It would be a lot easier to just regulate and monitor the damn things.
Exactly. Close and seal off the loophole/back door.
| 255 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:35:21pm |
re: #189 Rightwingconspirator
Do you not get the concept of thought experiment to take an issue to another alternative set of options? Sheesh.
I think the issue is that pro-gun-control types tend to get sick of being told that they just want no one to have any guns at all.
That said, I know a woman who took out a guy threatening a home invasion with a replica medieval mace.
He had a gun.
Of course, she was a very highly trained mace user, but there it is.
| 256 |
What, me worry? Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:35:43pm |
re: #250 theheat
I have to be someplace in a half hour, but I'll leave you with this retread that's been going around since before I was born,"But if we didn't kill them, they'd die of starvation!"
It's never about protecting the habitat (damn the EPA and fuck the Sierra Club!), or non-lethal methods to curb overpopulation, it's just about accessing the habitat as hunters so they can kill more. "Because otherwise they'd die!"
And, of course, saving them from d-e-a-t-h by that "conservationist" approach of hunting them from planes. Because, dammit, they care so much.
It's comin' right for us!
| 257 |
Varek Raith Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:35:56pm |
re: #255 SanFranciscoZionist
I think the issue is that pro-gun-control types tend to get sick of being told that they just want no one to have any guns at all.
That said, I know a woman who took out a guy threatening a home invasion with a replica medieval mace.
He had a gun.
Of course, she was a very highly trained mace user, but there it is.
Kabong!!!
Ouch...
| 258 |
jaunte Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:36:51pm |
re: #255 SanFranciscoZionist
she was a very highly trained mace user
There has to be an SCA connection.
| 259 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:36:54pm |
re: #232 researchok
What bothers me is no one wants to find a responsible middle ground.
It's become an all or nothing, phony slippery slope game.
That's why we have the loopholes you note.
The problem is that for a compromise to be struck, all parties to it have to be willing to accept the idea "What we have secured with this compromise is Good Enough." But this is very difficult to do in modern politics. Rhetoric tends to be heated to rally the base, and those making the deal often don't have control over those who are speaking the rhetoric. Moreover, calling for a compromise is not a call that fills the town square. The more moderate talk needed to produce a compromise would leave the party that used it as their theme electorally vulnerable if the other side decided to go on the attack.
| 260 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:37:36pm |
re: #194 WindUpBird
I think gun ownership should at least have the hurdles of car ownership.
Licenses, multiple tests, retesting, take the gun in every few years, show it to a guy, he checks it off, done.
I believe in taking the Second Amendment at its word. If you want to own a gun privately, you must enroll in your local militia. That will include periodic responsibilities, training according to local needs and concerns, and demonstrating your ability to use your weapon.
| 261 |
Gus Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:37:48pm |
In this age of computers, the internet, cell phones, iPhones, and 4G networks you think it would be easy. Set up a state or national database of pre-approved gun owners.
But wait! Then people will be paranoid about the state or feds having your gun ownership data! What if a tyrannical government takes hold?!
| 262 |
Petero1818 Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:38:00pm |
re: #251 Gus 802
I don't know. While I think there's a problem with the gun show loopholes I also don't think that stopping gun shows would prevent people from purchasing guns with criminal backgrounds. It would be a lot easier to just regulate and monitor the damn things.
its no different than saying that if we ban assault rifles, some people will always find a way to get them. No doubt. But if you make it harder, there will certainly be fewer of them. I don't believe monitoring and regulating gun shows is easier than banning them at all.
| 263 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:38:14pm |
| 264 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:38:47pm |
re: #260 SanFranciscoZionist
I believe in taking the Second Amendment at its word. If you want to own a gun privately, you must enroll in your local militia. That will include periodic responsibilities, training according to local needs and concerns, and demonstrating your ability to use your weapon.
That would only work if all local militias need to have a certain amount of federal oversight to them, but if we put that in place than yeah I could totally get behind this plan.
| 265 |
researchok Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:39:04pm |
re: #259 Dark_Falcon
The problem is that for a compromise to be struck, all parties to it have to be willing to accept the idea "What we have secured with this compromise is Good Enough." But this is very difficult to do in modern politics. Rhetoric tends to be heated to rally the base, and those making the deal often don't have control over those who are speaking the rhetoric. Moreover, calling for a compromise is not a call that fills the town square. The more moderate talk needed to produce a compromise would leave the party that used it as their theme electorally vulnerable if the other side decided to go on the attack.
All true- and that is why the status quo, which is clearly not good enough, will remain the staus quo.
| 266 |
Daniel Ballard Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:39:04pm |
re: #178 Charles
Point taken.
The Giffords shooting makes this a really stupid idea. States do not need official guns. Or cars or boats. Seriously they can stop at having a state bird, mineral and flower. That will do. But seeing this as a direct and deliberate result of the shooting seems a stretch. I would say more a reaction to the needless worries about gun control and no small amount of needless unfortunate posturing.
And honestly I think it's easier to score pot than a gun in most places. I could be wrong.
But I would hastily fully agree that access to illegal guns is way too easy. Hell, it is why I learned to shoot as a defensive measure given my career in precious metals.
| 267 |
Interesting Times Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:39:36pm |
re: #255 SanFranciscoZionist
That said, I know a woman who took out a guy threatening a home invasion with a replica medieval mace.
He had a gun.
Of course, she was a very highly trained mace user, but there it is.
...am I bad person for reading that and immediately thinking of YouTube and video game possibilities?
| 268 |
Robert O. Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:39:54pm |
"Every Communist Tea Partier must grasp the truth: Political power grows out the barrel of a gun."
(Because they are both impervious to facts, reject science, hate intellectuals, and wish radical political experiment on their respective countries)
| 269 |
b_sharp Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:41:14pm |
Night.
Don't pull the trigger until you see the whites of their eyes.
| 270 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:41:47pm |
re: #184 Petero1818
I don't mean to offend in any way, but I think you have to be American to not see the stupidity of this argument. The rest of the world seems to have figured it out. More guns, more dead people. It's easy math.
Not offended. I totally agree. America is suffering from mass insanity when it comes to guns.
| 271 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:41:50pm |
re: #248 Petero1818
There should be no such thing as a gun show. Distribution must be regulated strictly. Christ, you can't buy Codeine pills in the US without a prescription and there are no Pharmaceutical Shows as far as I am aware. Gun dealers should only be permitted to sell from a fixed address with cameras on at all times, and with waiting periods.
I'm imagining a pharmaceutical show.
Good show.
| 272 |
Varek Raith Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:42:14pm |
| 273 |
Mocking Jay Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:42:59pm |
re: #272 Varek Raith
XANAX FOR EVERYONE!!!
I'm staying at least 100 ft. away from the Viagra aisle at all times.
| 274 |
Gus Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:43:19pm |
re: #262 Petero1818
its no different than saying that if we ban assault rifles, some people will always find a way to get them. No doubt. But if you make it harder, there will certainly be fewer of them. I don't believe monitoring and regulating gun shows is easier than banning them at all.
What would stop people from selling their guns online or in private transactions. Which is done with far more frequency than gun shows. Do we monitor them and start arresting those that don't comply with a law banning all private sales of weapons? Then we'll have more people in the courts and in prisons many of which will be good and decent folks. We would have to expect 100 percent compliance from the population. I think we'd wind up with another situation like the war on drugs.
| 275 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:43:27pm |
re: #271 SanFranciscoZionist
I'm imagining a pharmaceutical show.
Good show.
(Half-Sarc) How about Abortion shows" to let women get around that new "a woman must meet with a doctor three days ahead of time" law they passed in one state?
| 276 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:44:05pm |
I would actually support gun safety classes in the schools. If nothing else, to make sure the kids know to take it seriously.
| 277 |
freetoken Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:44:17pm |
re: #271 SanFranciscoZionist
I'm imagining a pharmaceutical show.
Good show.
Sort of like a fungi convention.
| 278 |
jaunte Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:44:28pm |
re: #273 JasonA
I'm staying at least 100 ft. away from the Viagra aisle at all times.
That exhibitor has a setup outside in the big tent.
| 279 |
Mocking Jay Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:44:43pm |
| 280 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:44:54pm |
re: #258 jaunte
There has to be an SCA connection.
There is, of course. SCA fighter. She broke both his legs and one shoulder in three swings.
When the cops got there, he wanted to have her arrested, but apparently Texas cops feel that if you go up against a woman, and you have a gun, and she has some sort of weird fireplace poker, you shouldn't whine about the results.
| 281 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:45:30pm |
re: #229 jamesfirecat
Could you please explain this "fear of abuse" thing to me more fully?
Why is it more dangerous for a civilian to have a tazer than it is for them to have a 17 round semi-automatic concealable pistol?
WHO THINKS LIKE THAT?
A taser facilitates immediate incapacitation and subsequent torture. Tasers are also relatively quiet during operation compared to guns, you really don't want either falling into the wrong hands.
| 282 |
What, me worry? Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:46:29pm |
re: #280 SanFranciscoZionist
There is, of course. SCA fighter. She broke both his legs and one shoulder in three swings.
When the cops got there, he wanted to have her arrested, but apparently Texas cops feel that if you go up against a woman, and you have a gun, and she has some sort of weird fireplace poker, you shouldn't whine about the results.
Wow! Great story. I'm betting the shoulder went first.
| 283 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:46:38pm |
re: #276 EmmmieG
I would actually support gun safety classes in the schools. If nothing else, to make sure the kids know to take it seriously.
It is a skill, and a tool, that does need to be learned how to handle. Much like a band saw. Dangerous to the unskilled.
| 284 |
Linden Arden Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:47:27pm |
re: #270 Charles
Not offended. I totally agree. America is suffering from mass insanity when it comes to guns.
What is the remedy?
A Constitutional Amendment? Won't happen.
The best case scenario is tight regulation - which I fully support as a gun owner.
| 285 |
Varek Raith Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:47:36pm |
re: #280 SanFranciscoZionist
There is, of course. SCA fighter. She broke both his legs and one shoulder in three swings.
When the cops got there, he wanted to have her arrested, but apparently Texas cops feel that if you go up against a woman, and you have a gun, and she has some sort of weird fireplace poker, you shouldn't whine about the results.
He should be thankful he wasn't whacked across the head.
| 286 |
freetoken Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:47:38pm |
re: #260 SanFranciscoZionist
I believe in taking the Second Amendment at its word. If you want to own a gun privately, you must enroll in your local militia.
Ahemmm... I hope you don't mean private "militia", as in the groups all over this country who like to flout themselves as such.
But you do have a good point. Perhaps it would be a good idea to have an expanded National Guard with more part timers.
| 287 |
Petero1818 Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:47:48pm |
re: #274 Gus 802
What would stop people from selling their guns online or in private transactions. Which is done with far more frequency than gun shows. Do we monitor them and start arresting those that don't comply with a law banning all private sales of weapons? Then we'll have more people in the courts and in prisons many of which will be good and decent folks. We would have to expect 100 percent compliance from the population. I think we'd wind up with another situation like the war on drugs.
Absolutely, all private transactions of weapons would be illegal. Much the same as me not being able to sell my oxycontin to someone over the internet. Trust me, most law abiding gun owners who want to sell their weapons will learn to sell them to a registered gun dealer, who will register the weapon and resell to someone who has passed background checks. You NEED a war on weapons. The difference is guns would not be illegal they would be highly regulated. That would mean that anyone engaging in illegal gun transfers was likely doing it for illicit purposes, and you should be happy to have them behind bars.
| 288 |
Gus Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:49:13pm |
re: #287 Petero1818
Absolutely, all private transactions of weapons would be illegal. Much the same as me not being able to sell my oxycontin to someone over the internet. Trust me, most law abiding gun owners who want to sell their weapons will learn to sell them to a registered gun dealer, who will register the weapon and resell to someone who has passed background checks. You NEED a war on weapons. The difference is guns would not be illegal they would be highly regulated. That would mean that anyone engaging in illegal gun transfers was likely doing it for illicit purposes, and you should be happy to have them behind bars.
Well. That won't ever happen. Not in our lifetimes.
| 289 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:49:37pm |
re: #285 Varek Raith
He should be thankful he wasn't whacked across the head.
Yeah. She could definitely have killed him fairly easily. I would have, I would have gone for the surest kill. She had enough confidence in her skill not to have to.
This is a weapon that was designed to shatter bones through plate armor, so there's quite a lot of damage potential on someone who's not wearing anything but street clothes.
| 290 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:51:04pm |
re: #286 freetoken
Ahemmm... I hope you don't mean private "militia", as in the groups all over this country who like to flout themselves as such.
But you do have a good point. Perhaps it would be a good idea to have an expanded National Guard with more part timers.
Not private, public, and open to all area residents who wish to enroll. In my region, I expect we'd train a lot for earthquake scenarios. I imagine it connecting to the National Guard in some way, to create a national or statewide standard.
| 291 |
What, me worry? Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:51:16pm |
re: #289 SanFranciscoZionist
Yeah. She could definitely have killed him fairly easily. I would have, I would have gone for the surest kill. She had enough confidence in her skill not to have to.
This is a weapon that was designed to shatter bones through plate armor, so there's quite a lot of damage potential on someone who's not wearing anything but street clothes.
She took such a risk still. I'm sure, though, when he saw her with the mace in hand, he already soiled his BVDs.
| 292 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:52:29pm |
re: #281 goddamnedfrank
A taser facilitates immediate incapacitation and subsequent torture. Tasers are also relatively quiet during operation compared to guns, you really don't want either falling into the wrong hands.
Yes, you don't want either in the wrong hands......
That's why we completely forbid civilians from being able to buy one of those items, and then sell the other to anyone who walks into the right building with a breifcase full of cash....
What A country!
| 293 |
Romantic Heretic Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:52:43pm |
re: #255 SanFranciscoZionist
I think the issue is that pro-gun-control types tend to get sick of being told that they just want no one to have any guns at all.
That said, I know a woman who took out a guy threatening a home invasion with a replica medieval mace.
He had a gun.
Of course, she was a very highly trained mace user, but there it is.
No such thing as a dangerous weapon, just dangerous people.
One of my favorite hand to hand weapons is a rolled up magazine. Denser than a piece of wood the same size.
| 294 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:52:47pm |
re: #291 marjoriemoon
She took such a risk still. I'm sure, though, when he saw her with the mace in hand, he already soiled his BVDs.
He was trying to kill his girlfriend, who had escaped to this lady's house. He was kicking the door, screaming that he was going to kill both of them, and she told folks later that as she saw it, the door was coming open sooner or later, and if she opened it she at least had the element of surprise.
| 295 |
Petero1818 Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:53:01pm |
re: #288 Gus 802
Well. That won't ever happen. Not in our lifetimes.
That may be true, but that is a sad statement considering what I am talking about is really a middle position and not an outright ban. It reminds me of that old joke from Cheech and Chong's Next Movie.
Q. How many psychiatrists does it take to change a light bulb?
A. Only one, but the light bulb has to want to change.
| 296 |
What, me worry? Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:54:08pm |
re: #293 Romantic Heretic
No such thing as a dangerous weapon, just dangerous people.
One of my favorite hand to hand weapons is a rolled up magazine. Denser than a piece of wood the same size.
Except that a magazine isn't a weapon. It's meant to be read.
A gun has one purpose. Well, two. Maim and kill.
| 297 |
Gus Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:55:09pm |
re: #295 Petero1818
That may be true, but that is a sad statement considering what I am talking about is really a middle position and not an outright ban. It reminds me of that old joke from Cheech and Chong's Next Movie.
Q. How many psychiatrists does it take to change a light bulb?
A. Only one, but the light bulb has to want to change.
I know. It's an interesting idea and I was thinking about that earlier. Allowing only gun sales at registered or authorized distributors. But realistically that would do nothing, zip, zero, zilch, for the underground gun sales. It would have a minor impact but the end result would be increased underground arms trafficking in the USA.
| 298 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:55:42pm |
re: #293 Romantic Heretic
No such thing as a dangerous weapon, just dangerous people.
One of my favorite hand to hand weapons is a rolled up magazine. Denser than a piece of wood the same size.
that's TOTALLY WRONG
Any firearm of any kind that's not well cared for becomes a dangerous weapon ;-)
Imagine a semi in disrepair with bald tires, dangerous!
| 299 |
What, me worry? Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:56:18pm |
Ok my fellow gun lovers and gun haters. I'm off. Have an explosive evening.
| 300 |
Gus Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:56:55pm |
The ideal gun purchase for a common criminal is an unregistered gun with no serial number. You'd never be able to get that at a gun show.
| 301 |
researchok Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:57:07pm |
re: #292 jamesfirecat
Yes, you don't want either in the wrong hands...
That's why we completely forbid civilians from being able to buy one of those items, and then sell the other to anyone who walks into the right building with a breifcase full of cash...
What A country!
What you describe is relatively small problem, all things being equal.
There is a far bigger problem.
There are kits being sold every day that convert semi automatic weapons to full automatic weapons. Tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of these kits have been sold.
They convert a legal weapon into an illegal weapons and it's all perfectly legal.
That really is the 900 lb gorilla in the gun world.
| 302 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:57:48pm |
re: #281 goddamnedfrank
A taser facilitates immediate incapacitation and subsequent torture. Tasers are also relatively quiet during operation compared to guns, you really don't want either falling into the wrong hands.
hasn't thought of that *_*
My solution is the aforementioned mace pellet gun. Screamingly mean, but it's gonna make someone run like hell, not just stop
| 303 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:58:46pm |
re: #301 researchok
What you describe is relatively small problem, all things being equal.
There is a far bigger problem.
There are kits being sold every day that convert semi automatic weapons to full automatic weapons. Tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of these kits have been sold.
They convert a legal weapon into an illegal weapons and it's all perfectly legal.
That really is the 900 lb gorilla in the gun world.
And the NRA's very goal is to preserve this state of affairs.
| 304 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Apr 20, 2011 8:59:46pm |
re: #276 EmmmieG
I would actually support gun safety classes in the schools. If nothing else, to make sure the kids know to take it seriously.
I'd support it if our schools we're properly funded
As it is now, i don't because I don't think public schools have the resources to properly handle such a program
If a school can't keep the roof from falling in, I sure don't want a gun range on the grounds.
| 305 |
researchok Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:00:07pm |
| 306 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:00:29pm |
re: #292 jamesfirecat
Yes, you don't want either in the wrong hands...
That's why we completely forbid civilians from being able to buy one of those items, and then sell the other to anyone who walks into the right building with a breifcase full of cash...
What A country!
You've been told wrong, you absolutely can buy a taser. Police models use power tips (.22 blanks) and have lower power settings whereas civilian models use air cartridges and have more power and a lockable trigger so you can drop the still firing taser and run. All things being equal, at close range the civilian model is more abusable, especially if the micro tags dispersed by the cartridge can't be traced back to the firer. No background check required to purchase either.
| 307 |
Gus Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:00:36pm |
re: #303 WindUpBird
And the NRA's very goal is to preserve this state of affairs.
NRA does some pretty weird shit in the background. Sometimes I wonder "whose side are they on"?
| 308 |
BongCrodny Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:00:40pm |
re: #281 goddamnedfrank
A taser facilitates immediate incapacitation and subsequent torture. Tasers are also relatively quiet during operation compared to guns, you really don't want either falling into the wrong hands.
I'm thinking that if everyone was allowed to have a taser, there'd be a lot of people waking up on sidewalks missing their wallets and purses.
| 309 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:01:04pm |
re: #228 marjoriemoon
I thought our base nature is to fuck.
that's the other one :D
But fight or flight response, that's there for killin'. That's there for kill-or-be-killed
| 310 |
researchok Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:01:15pm |
re: #307 Gus 802
NRA does some pretty weird shit in the background. Sometimes I wonder "whose side are they on"?
The self serving side.
The NRA is a huge money maker.
| 311 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:01:48pm |
re: #38 Dark_Falcon
You mean Columbine? Honestly, I doubt the legislature even thought of that. Horrific as that mass murder was, its far enough in the past that people may not remember its anniversary.
Yeah, you're probably right. The date's stuck with me due to the fact that it and Virginia Tech happened within a few days of each other on the calendar and the Tech tragedy is one that's stayed with me due to having friends at teh university at the time.
| 312 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:02:12pm |
re: #307 Gus 802
NRA does some pretty weird shit in the background. Sometimes I wonder "whose side are they on"?
Their own.
Like MADD. MADD used to do good. Now they're a teetotaler neo-prohibition extremist group that MADD's own FOUNDER has denounced
| 313 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:03:21pm |
re: #306 goddamnedfrank
Sorry, there is a background check from the manufacturer, but I'm aware of no law preventing private transfers.
| 314 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:03:22pm |
re: #312 WindUpBird
Their own.
Like MADD. MADD used to do good. Now they're a teetotaler neo-prohibition extremist group that MADD's own FOUNDER has denounced
Hmmm, I think I like that analogy. Honestly, I am fairly pro gun for a liberal but I do agree with what Charles and others have stated that we've got a strange amount of gun fetishism.
| 315 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:04:51pm |
re: #307 Gus 802
NRA does some pretty weird shit in the background. Sometimes I wonder "whose side are they on"?
I got on some targeted NRA mailing list because my partner (he's the gun guy, I'm the car guy) gets catalogs of gun-related doodads, and then all of a sudden in our mail, hysterical social-conservative-mixed-with-NRA-gibberish mailers that were done up to look like real news, obviously aimed at the "Heartland."
| 316 |
andres Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:05:14pm |
re: #71 Ojoe
No. & that was a problem, wasn't it?
At the time of the shooting, one of the bystanders almost killed one of the person who disarmed the crazed guy.
So having more people armed isn't the solution.
| 317 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:05:35pm |
re: #314 HappyWarrior
Hmmm, I think I like that analogy. Honestly, I am fairly pro gun for a liberal but I do agree with what Charles and others have stated that we've got a strange amount of gun fetishism.
I'm pro gun, with responsible laws. I don't think we have responsible laws in the slightest. I think it's an insane freeforall.
| 319 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:06:32pm |
re: #56 Ojoe
Well I don't know; in any group of people you want the most moral people to be the best armed, or the evil prey on the weak and innocent; if firearms are rare, then the bad guys will have proportionally more of same, because they make sure they get them; & so perhaps it is best if firearms are widely distributed even though there are bad side effects.
So some think.
this post is so bizarre I have no response to it
| 320 |
Gus Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:06:33pm |
re: #315 WindUpBird
I got on some targeted NRA mailing list because my partner (he's the gun guy, I'm the car guy) gets catalogs of gun-related doodads, and then all of a sudden in our mail, hysterical social-conservative-mixed-with-NRA-gibberish mailers that were done up to look like real news, obviously aimed at the "Heartland."
I got a call from them once. I was polite through the whole hysterical presentation which included "Obama is going to take away our guns!"
| 321 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:07:13pm |
re: #314 HappyWarrior
Hmmm, I think I like that analogy. Honestly, I am fairly pro gun for a liberal but I do agree with what Charles and others have stated that we've got a strange amount of gun fetishism.
Totally. What, exactly, do we USE these guns for?
Law enforcement, Dove, Moose, Deer hunting. What did I miss?
| 322 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:08:12pm |
Taser only refers to stun guns that send a shock over wired darts. Contact stun guns are incredibly easy to acquire.
| 323 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:08:35pm |
re: #320 Gus 802
I got a call from them once. I was polite through the whole hysterical presentation which included "Obama is going to take away our guns!"
hahaha I would have just interrupted them. I do that a lot. 'Is this a push poll? Can I talk to you frankly? How much money are you making at this phone bank? Are you a volunteer? Do you really honestly believe what you're saying?"
Then they just stop, then start the script over, and I hang up.
| 324 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:09:00pm |
re: #317 WindUpBird
I'm pro gun, with responsible laws. I don't think we have responsible laws in the slightest. I think it's an insane freeforall.
We're on the same page. I think it's ridiculous to oppose background checks. Plus I have to admit the rhetoric of groups like the NRA and others has always made me uncomfortable. Plus, they seem to think that guns solve all problems and never take in to account situations on a case to case basis. Plus, I've stated so in the past but I think it's stupid to allow guns in to bars like some states do. I am sure some will disagere with that but I do not like the idea of guns being in close proximity to people getting trashed. Just seems like asking for trouble.
| 325 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:09:16pm |
re: #322 goddamnedfrank
Taser only refers to stun guns that send a shock over wired darts. Contact stun guns are incredibly easy to acquire.
the zappy thing that John's wife in Die Hard 2 used against the douche on the plane!
WHY DO I REMEMBER THAT
| 326 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:09:35pm |
re: #322 goddamnedfrank
That could be fun, but I digress...
| 327 |
BongCrodny Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:09:56pm |
re: #317 WindUpBird
I'm pro gun, with responsible laws. I don't think we have responsible laws in the slightest. I think it's an insane freeforall.
Up here in South Canada our state legislature just advanced a bill -- not a law yet, but likely on the way -- that would allow concealed weapons permit holders to bring guns inside the State House.
I'm no gun hater, but I just don't see this being a good idea in any way, shape or form.
| 328 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:10:02pm |
re: #321 Floral Giraffe
Totally. What, exactly, do we USE these guns for?
Law enforcement, Dove, Moose, Deer hunting. What did I miss?
Well, there is home protection. I understand that. Though I will admit to be annoyed with those who have the fantasy of oppression who claim their gun is for protection agaisnt the government.
| 329 |
Varek Raith Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:10:10pm |
re: #326 Floral Giraffe
That could be fun, but I digress...
I don't recall that zap being any....
Fun.
| 331 |
Digital Display Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:11:27pm |
re: #318 Floral Giraffe
Hey, HH!
Great news! I'll call you this weekend...Life is sweet today...It was a 50/50 chance of disaster....It's all good now
| 332 |
Daniel Ballard Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:11:31pm |
re: #180 b_sharp
Late to reply sorry... In essence, if you get caught way behind and the bad guys have ya already, well the gun will not help. But when things are bad, but not beyond the beyond of workable circumstance you have a fighting chance.
| 333 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:11:32pm |
re: #301 researchok
What you describe is relatively small problem, all things being equal.
There is a far bigger problem.
There are kits being sold every day that convert semi automatic weapons to full automatic weapons. Tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of these kits have been sold.
They convert a legal weapon into an illegal weapons and it's all perfectly legal.
That really is the 900 lb gorilla in the gun world.
Actually, those kits are much more rare than you think. The ATF's mandates for semi-auto firearms are such that said guns must not be easily converted to full-auto. Such a conversion is very hard for most weapons and beyond the capacity of most gangs. Those with the skills needed to do such a thing won't do it, because they know that an illegal conversion to full auto means 10 years in federal prison if you get caught.
| 334 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:11:47pm |
re: #324 HappyWarrior
the rhetoric is paranoid militia rhetoric.
For every actual creepy militia member who is out in the woods playing Turner Diaries LARP, there's a hundred guys who fancy themselves that in their heads, but stay at home and never do anything. And that's what the NRA does, it sells to column B.
aaaand then some of column B is empowered over time to edge into column A, and then :(
Like being in a band, for every guy in a band. there's a bunch who just play at home and dream
| 336 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:12:08pm |
re: #327 BongCrodny
Up here in South Canada our state legislature just advanced a bill -- not a law yet, but likely on the way -- that would allow concealed weapons permit holders to bring guns inside the State House.
I'm no gun hater, but I just don't see this being a good idea in any way, shape or form.
that's fucking evil. Wow.
| 337 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:12:31pm |
re: #333 Dark_Falcon
Actually, those kits are much more rare than you think. The ATF's mandates for semi-auto firearms are such that said guns must not be easily converted to full-auto. Such a conversion is very hard for most weapons and beyond the capacity of most gangs. Those with the skills needed to do such a thing won't do it, because they know that an illegal conversion to full auto means 10 years in federal prison if you get caught.
not so rare that I don't know people with them. and I do!
| 338 |
Gus Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:12:55pm |
re: #334 WindUpBird
the rhetoric is paranoid militia rhetoric.
For every actual creepy militia member who is out in the woods playing Turner Diaries LARP, there's a hundred guys who fancy themselves that in their heads, but stay at home and never do anything. And that's what the NRA does, it sells to column B.
aaand then some of column B is empowered over time to edge into column A, and then :(
Like being in a band, for every guy in a band. there's a bunch who just play at home and dream
Never happened either. Obama barely said a peep about gun control even after the Giffords shooting. Obama is more conservative about gun ownership the average liberal.
| 339 |
Gus Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:13:33pm |
re: #338 Gus 802
Never happened either. Obama barely said a peep about gun control even after the Giffords shooting. Obama is more conservative about gun ownership than the average liberal.
Grunt. PIMF
| 340 |
Gus Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:14:20pm |
Yeah but what about the M1 sales from the Philippines!?!?
Zzzzzzz.
| 341 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:15:28pm |
re: #326 Floral Giraffe
That could be fun, but I digress...
Honestly, stun guns freak me the hell out. Like I don't mind women having them, but without going into exactly why, a man with a stun gun just screams "sociopath" to me.
| 342 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:17:00pm |
re: #338 Gus 802
Never happened either. Obama barely said a peep about gun control even after the Giffords shooting. Obama is more conservative about gun ownership the average liberal.
well, politically he knows it's impossible.
The paranoids in the NRA, the neo-Klan types, the militia types, so much synergy there. So much crossmarketing, if ya please. There's already been so much paranoid smearing of Obama as "schemin muzzlim gunna take your guns 'way" everywhere, that he knows it's impossible.
hell, a razor sharp nerd friend of mine with conservative leanings (he's in the marines now) who believed some of the paranoid Obama stuff, and i had to very nicely backtrack him to where the talking points originated, and explain to him where that came from, who was peddling it, etc etc, right around the election.
And then he was like "GOD DAMMIT! they tricked ME!"
| 343 |
researchok Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:17:10pm |
re: #333 Dark_Falcon
Actually, those kits are much more rare than you think. The ATF's mandates for semi-auto firearms are such that said guns must not be easily converted to full-auto. Such a conversion is very hard for most weapons and beyond the capacity of most gangs. Those with the skills needed to do such a thing won't do it, because they know that an illegal conversion to full auto means 10 years in federal prison if you get caught.
Thanks for that. I stand corrected.
I'm glad to hear the problem was effectively dealt with.
| 344 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:18:07pm |
re: #341 goddamnedfrank
Honestly, stun guns freak me the hell out. Like I don't mind women having them, but without going into exactly why, a man with a stun gun just screams "sociopath" to me.
what about me? :D
Twiggy nerd who's been beat up before in public (don't walk under the monorail in seattle at night, guys) I wouldn't mind something like that if I had to walk home in a horrid neighborhood
| 346 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:20:04pm |
re: #341 goddamnedfrank
Yes, implements of evil.
| 347 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:20:07pm |
re: #341 goddamnedfrank
Honestly, stun guns freak me the hell out. Like I don't mind women having them, but without going into exactly why, a man with a stun gun just screams "sociopath" to me.
///Hey, we wussy male nerds are just as much in need of a non muscular related way to defend ourselves as a woman!
(And on that half sarcastic note I'm packing it in for the night)
| 348 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:21:07pm |
re: #343 researchok
Thanks for that. I stand corrected.
I'm glad to hear the problem was effectively dealt with.
Well, its still an issue, as WUB points out. But its an issue that has been cut way back. Gun makers don't generally have an interest in their products being converted to full-auto, so they have an incentive to stay within the spirit of the regulations.
| 349 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:22:09pm |
re: #348 Dark_Falcon
Well, its still an issue, as WUB points out. But its an issue that has been cut way back. Gun makers don't generally have an interest in their products being converted to full-auto, so they have an incentive to stay within the spirit of the regulations.
I was under the impresison that "gun makers" don't make the conversion kits, third party opportunists do
Logitech makes computer accessories, they don't make computers
| 350 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:24:09pm |
| 352 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:26:53pm |
re: #349 WindUpBird
I was under the impresison that "gun makers" don't make the conversion kits, third party opportunists do
Logitech makes computer accessories, they don't make computers
You assume correctly. But gun makers know they'd be the ones who catch the blame if someone uses such a converted weapon for a mass shooting. Thus they have an incentive to make sure that such modifications are very difficult. Most of those kits ultimately require a machinist's skills, and there are very few machinists who will do the work, considering the penalties. Because to own such a kit is legal, but install it or to posess a weapon that has been so modified is a federal felony.
| 353 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:28:21pm |
re: #350 WindUpBird
this exactly
They are toys, for the most part. There ARE serious users of them Police, primarily. It's NOT an easy decision. But if you, as a private citizen were to make the choice, guns in the house or no guns in the house, what would you decide?
| 354 |
Shiplord Kirel Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:28:31pm |
I am one of the gun nuts here. I own a number of firearms and took three of them to Iraq with me. I do not hunt.
Frankly though, the gun culture's position on any kind of regulation ("out of my cold dead fingers") is the basest insanity. I have a fair amount of training and experience with firearms, some of it in actual combat. I favor the licensing of gun owners over the registration of individual firearms. This would not be so much to monitor people for illegal activity as to ensure that they are stable enough and have enough training to handle lethal weapons responsibly. It is a fairly tall order. Throughout its history the NRA has insisted that extensive training and regular practice are essential for responsible gun ownership. Paradoxically though they oppose any effort to make this mandatory.
Voluntary compliance won't cut it. It would be nice if nobody would buy a gun without really knowing what they are doing, or why. That won't happen in the real world though. Society has every right to intervene in this business, since the consequences are immediate and lethal. The cold dead fingers crowd yelp about the possibility of the evil gummint confiscating their guns if these are registered. Licensing owners and not the objects themselves would seem to eliminate this fear, but the kooks will only come back and claim that owner licensing would make it easy for pinkos and socialists to round up gun owners instead. Er, who is going to round up fifty or a hundred million people; armed no less; and how?
In any case, we cannot let paranoid conspiracy theories dictate legislation, especially not in matters of life and death.
| 355 |
freetoken Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:31:04pm |
I've got to agree with PZed - Biologos has jumped the shark. I just can't take what appears over there as being truly serious discussions about the intersection of science and religion. Not that some of the posts there aren't good - many are. But more and more they are running essays that really smell of desperation (to keep them in good standing with their more fundamentalist acquaintances.)
| 356 |
ProGunLiberal Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:31:09pm |
Off topic, but apparently the Al-Jazeera Live Blog got so tired of the Pro-Qaddafi trolls that they completely replaced the particular page. The nuked the previous live blog page and replaced it, annihilating hundreds of comments.
| 357 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:31:52pm |
re: #354 Shiplord Kirel
Throughout its history the NRA has insisted that extensive training and regular practice are essential for responsible gun ownership. blockquote>
And training, and knowledge, and skills, and pracitse, are all a part of the decision making process.
| 358 |
freetoken Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:33:13pm |
re: #356 ProLifeLiberal
1000 years in the future, when whatever historians are left try to dig through what happened at the end of the 20th century and the first half of the 21st they'll have a heck of a time with the gap in information.
It would all have been deleted.
| 360 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:33:38pm |
re: #344 WindUpBird
what about me? :D
Twiggy nerd who's been beat up before in public (don't walk under the monorail in seattle at night, guys) I wouldn't mind something like that if I had to walk home in a horrid neighborhood
I wouldn't mind you having one because I don't see you as likely to assault a woman, ever, but still I'd think you'd be better off with a collapsable baton. I'm a big enough guy though, 5'11 200# and sometimes project my own sense of security and confidence where I shouldn't.
Do you remember that buffed up jackass in Seattle who went by the name Conan? He used to ride around town on a tricked out Colnago road bike with a claymore sword strapped to his back. I think he got beat up once and was like "never again." He got into a bike to bike head on on the University Bridge with one of our mechanics at Gregg's once and came into the shop trying to shake him down for repair money, wearing his claymore. We told him to GTFO.
| 361 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:34:10pm |
Guns aren't the problem, it's people with guns that are the problem.
Guns don't kill people, physics kills people.
If guns are legalized then only law abiding citizens will carry guns.
Err, I don't think I'm doing it right...
| 362 |
ProGunLiberal Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:35:16pm |
re: #358 freetoken
That would suck. I would love for people to know what things were like now.
In any case, I'm amused at the unsubtle approach taken by the Live Blog editors against the trolls.
| 363 |
freetoken Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:35:22pm |
| 364 |
freetoken Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:36:12pm |
re: #362 ProLifeLiberal
Remember, a blog is not a thing in real space - it's vapors in the dreams of electrons...
| 365 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:36:49pm |
re: #360 goddamnedfrank
Gratuitous chance to insert Jessea Rae.
Blame Jimmah!
LOVE THIS!
| 366 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:39:26pm |
re: #362 ProLifeLiberal
That would suck. I would love for people to know what things were like now.
In any case, I'm amused at the unsubtle approach taken by the Live Blog editors against the trolls.
There comes a time when if trolls have been left active for too long, they may be impossible to clear off a thread. And that live blog may lack LGF's anti-troll measures.
| 367 |
Gus Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:39:42pm |
re: #358 freetoken
1000 years in the future, when whatever historians are left try to dig through what happened at the end of the 20th century and the first half of the 21st they'll have a heck of a time with the gap in information.
It would all have been deleted.
I propose a program in which we transcribe all internet information onto cave paintings and stone tablets. I'd be happy to create a small art installation piece for a sum of $500,000.
Maybe I should get started on my art grant.
//
| 368 |
ProGunLiberal Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:40:37pm |
re: #364 freetoken
Yeah, I know. One of the commenter on the Live Blog found the old version. It actually appears that Al-Jazeera actually created a whole new Live Blog, took the old one off the Front Page, and put the new one in its place. It seems to have worked too. Only one troll is in the new one. Unfortunately, he is saying things like this charming little quote:
they are not civilians, they are rebels, and if they fight, gadafi will fight back, they deserve to die
or this one:
there are no citizens and civilians only TRUE LIBYAN PEOPLE
Poe's Law ahoy!
| 369 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:41:51pm |
re: #365 Floral Giraffe
Gratuitous chance to insert Jessea Rae.
Blame Jimmah!
LOVE THIS![Video]
Apparently I'm not the only one who remembers this guy:
Anyone remember that guy, capitol hill's "Conan"?
The tan muscley guy with the sword on his back.... remember him walking around the reservoir, heading home from QFC with groceries in his arms, and leather straps all over. Long hair, large sword? Wonder whatever happened to him - haven't seen him in ages. We all used to call him Conan (the barbarian).i remember him ..he introduced himself as conan when i worked at orpheum records. i asked him 'why the sword?' and he said it needed it to help people in distress. and that if i ever needed help i should call him.. no telephone number or nothin..i should just shout out 'CONAN ! "..
i never needed any help ..
| 370 |
Amory Blaine Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:44:17pm |
Arizona's Official State Gun
Should be a small wiener not a Colt.
| 371 |
Shiplord Kirel Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:44:25pm |
Speaking of knowing what you are doing, and dire consequences for failure:
How to Fly a Boeing 747-400
You definitely can't fly a plane without being licensed to do so, by the feds no less. Nobody in the aviation culture seems to think otherwise either.
| 372 |
Gus Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:47:19pm |
re: #371 Shiplord Kirel
Speaking of knowing what you are doing, and dire consequences for failure:
How to Fly a Boeing 747-400
[Video]You definitely can't fly a plane without being licensed to do so, by the feds no less. Nobody in the aviation culture seems to think otherwise either.
I like the car engine starter sound before the engines wind up.
| 373 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:49:17pm |
re: #369 goddamnedfrank
You did look good in a kilt.
Just saying...
| 375 |
freetoken Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:52:01pm |
re: #367 Gus 802
I'd be happy to create a small art installation piece for a sum of $500,000.
Maybe I should get started on my art grant.
Heh, go for it.
I've thought about ways to record images so they last for centuries. Digital images will be impossible to retrieve when civilization collapses (which will happen, as it's done before.) Even the best inkjet prints will be long gone after a century or two, which is also true of many "traditional" photographs.
One thought I had was ion deposition onto a base of clay made from aluminum oxide (ruby, sapphire stuff - very hard) and titanium oxide (pretty indestructible.) Expensive but would last.
Those Mesopotamians were pretty clever - some of their bean counting is still around, 6000 years later.
| 376 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:57:43pm |
re: #373 Floral Giraffe
You did look good in a kilt.
Just saying...
I tried to order a kilt for my wedding, but the importer fucked up the order and I had to make due with a new suit. Considering the way the marriage turned out I really dodged a bullet on that one.
| 377 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, Apr 20, 2011 9:59:40pm |
re: #376 goddamnedfrank
I hope your next adventure works our better.
Kilt or no!
| 378 |
Shiplord Kirel Wed, Apr 20, 2011 10:02:58pm |
Some of our legislators here in the Lone Star State are talking about items like guns, cars, and light bulbs being exempt from federal regulation if they are made within the state for sale and use exclusively within the state. Other states are considering the same kind of rationale for thumbing their noses at the feds.
What a terrific idea! I wonder how long it will take them to take this same states rights reasoning to its logical conclusion and apply it to aviation. Your Texas Fireball Deathtrap Special need not meet FAA regs if you don't fly it across a state line. Similarly, whatever licensing requirement the legislature deems appropriate, say a couple of videos, a session in an old Cessna, and some sincere prayers, would be sufficient to fly your plane as long as you stay within the state.
| 379 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Wed, Apr 20, 2011 10:07:01pm |
re: #375 freetoken
Heh, go for it.
I've thought about ways to record images so they last for centuries. Digital images will be impossible to retrieve when civilization collapses (which will happen, as it's done before.) Even the best inkjet prints will be long gone after a century or two, which is also true of many "traditional" photographs.
One thought I had was ion deposition onto a base of clay made from aluminum oxide (ruby, sapphire stuff - very hard) and titanium oxide (pretty indestructible.) Expensive but would last.
Those Mesopotamians were pretty clever - some of their bean counting is still around, 6000 years later.
One of those Mediterranean cultures (too lazy to look it up at present) had some records preserved because of a palace fire. Fired the unfired clay tablets, and fired clay lasts. The records were "unimportant" ones, but very useful for archeologists.
And now I'm going to bed.
| 380 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, Apr 20, 2011 10:08:13pm |
| 381 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Apr 20, 2011 10:20:20pm |
re: #378 Shiplord Kirel
Some of our legislators here in the Lone Star State are talking about items like guns, cars, and light bulbs being exempt from federal regulation if they are made within the state for sale and use exclusively within the state. Other states are considering the same kind of rationale for thumbing their noses at the feds.
What a terrific idea! I wonder how long it will take them to take this same states rights reasoning to its logical conclusion and apply it to aviation. Your Texas Fireball Deathtrap Special need not meet FAA regs if you don't fly it across a state line. Similarly, whatever licensing requirement the legislature deems appropriate, say a couple of videos, a session in an old Cessna, and some sincere prayers, would be sufficient to fly your plane as long as you stay within the state.
They could try that, but it would be most unlikely to work. Given the damages of accidents involving trucks or cars moving things interstate, I think the present Supreme Court would rule against 'intra-state cars' at least 7-2.
| 382 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, Apr 20, 2011 10:27:51pm |
re: #331 HoosierHoops
Great news! I'll call you this weekend...Life is sweet today...It was a 50/50 chance of disaster...It's all good now
Hey, hooray again!
Congratulations, even!
| 383 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, Apr 20, 2011 10:31:14pm |
Be well, all.
Sleep tight, especially if you have difficulties sleeping.
Be well.
| 384 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Apr 20, 2011 10:34:06pm |
Daniel Foster of National Review lowers the boom on Donald Trump:
If one were drawing up a list of Donald Trump’s first principles of business, “Fake it ’Til You Make It” would probably be at the top. One of the young Trump’s more clever business tactics involved hiring workers and machines to push dirt around his frequently stalled or underfunded real-estate developments to present visiting potential investors with the illusion of industry. And he has developed a long-running reflex to offer unsolicited — and largely unverifiable — assessments of the strength and virility of his portfolio to anybody who will listen, perhaps in an effort to erase memories of the four (and counting) bankruptcies to which he was a party.
This habit of projecting the appearance of success is on full display in the Donald’s sideshow flirtation with a Republican presidential bid. Just as he did with his ultimately doomed 2000 Reform Party bid, Trump appears to have shrewdly taken stock of the political moment, identifying the most passionate cross-section of voters in the American electorate and undertaking a media blitzkrieg to convince them that he’s one of them. Most cynically he has taken on the Birther mantle, going further than any contender in questioning the circumstances of the president’s birth, and making the (again unverified) claim that he has dispatched gumshoes to Hawaii to investigate. With an underwhelming, wide-open GOP field and a starting advantage in name-recognition, Trump has even been able to catch some early polling momentum, and has assured us that he knows “many people at the White House” who say he is “the last person [President Obama] wants to run against.”
In other words, Fake It ’Til You Make It. But make no mistake, conservatives, Donald Trump is not one of you. Don’t believe it? Listen to the man.
SNIP
| 385 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Apr 20, 2011 10:34:23pm |
re: #383 Floral Giraffe
Be well, all.
Sleep tight, especially if you have difficulties sleeping.
Be well.
Thanks Floral.
| 386 |
Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All Wed, Apr 20, 2011 10:53:39pm |
One of the interesting side notes to gun ownership and the illegality of 'non-lethal' forms of incapacitation is the nasty trap that felons fall into after prison. Since they have their rights stripped away for gun ownership, elons find themselves victimized because other predators know they have no means of defending themselves.
You can argue that felons get what they deserve and few people have sympathy for convicted felons, but I would argue by eliminating their ability to protect themselves in an even non-lethal capacity with a group that if they try to do the right thing and follow the law, leave themselves defenseless. Or they can break the law and protect themselves. Neither choice is conducive to returning back as a functioning member of society.
| 387 |
Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All Wed, Apr 20, 2011 11:00:33pm |
re: #280 SanFranciscoZionist
There is, of course. SCA fighter. She broke both his legs and one shoulder in three swings.
When the cops got there, he wanted to have her arrested, but apparently Texas cops feel that if you go up against a woman, and you have a gun, and she has some sort of weird fireplace poker, you shouldn't whine about the results.
Heh, I have a nice Pakistani sword in easy reach, and both me and my SO have daggers by our bedstands. We're both intimidated by guns, but strangely feel no qualms with the idea of stabbing someone if they're breaking into the room :)
| 388 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, Apr 20, 2011 11:08:00pm |
re: #386 bloodstar
Cabelas will sell and ship black powder muzzle stuffers to most states no questions asked. Most ex cons can legally acquire a reproduction LeMat revolver or 20 gauge Howdah pistol no problem. They may not look modern, but they'll get the job done in a pinch, and I'm not sure I want felons able to reload all that quickly anyway.
| 389 |
freetoken Wed, Apr 20, 2011 11:45:14pm |
Recommended evening reading:
The Truth About American Exceptionalism
[...]
Let me make it clear at the outset. I too believe in American exceptionalism, although I don’t think God has anything to do with it. But I suspect my perspective will find little favor among Republicans in general and Tea Party members in particular. For I believe that America is exceptional in the advantages we’ve had over other nations, not what we’ve done with those advantages.
Indeed, to me there are two American exceptionalisms. One is the exceptionally favorable circumstances the United States found itself in at its founding and over its first 200 years. The second is the exceptional way in which we have squandered those advantages, in the process creating a value system singularly antagonistic to the changes needed when those advantages disappeared.
Americans did not become rich because of our rugged individualism or entrepreneurial drive or technical inventiveness. We were born rich. Ann Richards’ famous description of George Bush Sr. as an individual is equally applicable to the United States as a whole, “He was born on third base and thinks he hit a triple.”
[...]
To American exceptionalists freedom means being able to do what you want unencumbered by obligations to your fellow citizens. It is a definition of freedom the rest of the world finds bewildering. Can it be, they ask, that the quintessential expression of American freedom is low or no taxes and the right to carry a loaded gun into a bar? To which a growing number of Americans, if recent elections were any indication, would respond, “You’re damn right it is.”
[...]
| 390 |
BongCrodny Thu, Apr 21, 2011 12:10:27am |
re: #384 Dark_Falcon
Daniel Foster of National Review lowers the boom on Donald Trump:
SNIP
If there really was any "there" there when it comes to Obama's citizenship someone like Rupert Murdoch or Richard Scaife or the Koch Bros. would have already tried the private investigator option.
| 391 |
laZardo Thu, Apr 21, 2011 12:26:41am |
FWIW, gun ownership laws in the Philippines make actual legal ownership prohibitively expensive for all but the rich. At the same time however, there are plenty of loopholes in it that allow local politicians to arm their goons for twisted shit like what happened in Maguindanao a couple years ago.
On a vaguely-related note, I also recently learned that the Philippines and the United States also share the dubious distinction of being the only countries in the world with legalized bounty hunting.
Gun ownership law reform needs to be substantial - initiated at the federal level - and it must above all be for the aim of ensuring that anybody that would like to own a gun should be legally-certified-sane. As it were.
And that's all I got to say bout that.
:B
| 393 |
laZardo Thu, Apr 21, 2011 12:41:42am |
Anon Thread Of The Moment*:
From the weapons board, it's Overreacting Officer Guy!
Disclaimer: Regarding safety concerns of visiting a 4chan page, the most you will get in terms of a nasty surprise is the flash music the site owner likes to embed in their page, usually an anime theme or some vidya stuff. First-time lurkers should avoid clicking anything with "Spoiler" on it, that's usually porn (or a troll-face image for people that deliberately click on it thinking it is.)
It is highly recommended that one "lurks more" before posting, and as always, never share any personal details or post pics of yourself. It's a deep culture of in-jokes and worn-out memes, you wouldn't understand at first go.
| 394 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, Apr 21, 2011 12:56:14am |
re: #391 laZardo
Insane rubes owning powerful weapons is one of the longest traditions America has!
| 395 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, Apr 21, 2011 12:57:18am |
re: #369 goddamnedfrank
Apparently I'm not the only one who remembers this guy:
I saw the Seattle sword guy!
| 396 |
freetoken Thu, Apr 21, 2011 12:58:16am |
re: #394 WindUpBird
Insane rubes owning powerful weapons is one of the longest traditions America has!
If we could only get the insane rubes to own powerful... vibrators!
| 397 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, Apr 21, 2011 12:59:08am |
re: #360 goddamnedfrank
I wouldn't mind you having one because I don't see you as likely to assault a woman, ever, but still I'd think you'd be better off with a collapsable baton. I'm a big enough guy though, 5'11 200# and sometimes project my own sense of security and confidence where I shouldn't.
Do you remember that buffed up jackass in Seattle who went by the name Conan? He used to ride around town on a tricked out Colnago road bike with a claymore sword strapped to his back. I think he got beat up once and was like "never again." He got into a bike to bike head on on the University Bridge with one of our mechanics at Gregg's once and came into the shop trying to shake him down for repair money, wearing his claymore. We told him to GTFO.
I never knew his name but I totally saw him, i think in the U district way back when
| 399 |
laZardo Thu, Apr 21, 2011 2:47:07am |
Every Maundy Thursday, a horde of Filipino Catholics descend upon seven churches as part of some pilgrimage I cannot properly explain.
But that doesn't stop me from getting some good photos of the older ones dating back to the Spanish era, especially in the daytime when there's less traffic.
| 401 |
RogueOne Thu, Apr 21, 2011 3:48:58am |
Everyone see Tim Hetherington, one of the photojournalists from RESTREPO, died in Libya yesterday?
Renowned war filmmaker, prize-winning photojournalist killed in Libya
If you haven't seen RESTREPO, I highly recommend it.
| 402 |
RogueOne Thu, Apr 21, 2011 3:51:32am |
| 403 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Apr 21, 2011 3:54:24am |
The Official State "Rock Song" of Oklahoma is "Do You Realize" by The Flaming Lips.
| 405 |
Obdicut Thu, Apr 21, 2011 3:56:27am |
re: #403 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I think we should have official state drunks, pick-up lines, and skateboard tricks. That'd get the kids interested in gubmint!
| 406 |
researchok Thu, Apr 21, 2011 4:01:47am |
| 407 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Apr 21, 2011 4:02:47am |
re: #405 Obdicut
Utah's got a State gun.
If the State of Virginia decides to declare a state gun, they better not debate it in April.
I'm just sayin'...
| 408 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Apr 21, 2011 4:05:08am |
re: #405 Obdicut
That'd get the kids interested in gubmint!
The food stamps and Medicaid because they're illiterate clueless losers doesn't help?
/
| 409 |
RogueOne Thu, Apr 21, 2011 4:11:30am |
re: #407 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Utah's got a State gun.
If the State of Virginia decides to declare a state gun, they better not debate it in April.
I'm just sayin'...
I understand why AZ might want to name a state gun but the Utah 1911 Browning confuses me.
| 410 |
Idle Drifter Thu, Apr 21, 2011 4:13:29am |
The mass murder was a news worthy story, however like every news worthy story there is someone trying to use the dead as a soap box for their own personal gain. Both the gun control/ban and individual gun rights camps have done questionable if not dickish campaigns after every fucking, god damn atrocity involving a firearm. This is not going away anytime ever but these events tend to bring out the worst in people, myself especially.
This story in a non-issue and I don't get worked up over "State Gun" as an issue involving the great debate of personal firearms but yet another notch in the pointless shit that governments do to make me wonder if anyone stood on the floor of the Arizona Congress and stated very loud for camera's "WHY IN THE HELL ARE WE DOING THIS POINTLESS LEGISLATION!" I honestly wish we did have people in government who were honest, objective, and passionate about real issues that effect their constituents or that the majority of the constituents actually had the fore thought to study their candidates before voting or actively participated in their local, state, and federal government. But I can wish in one hand and crap in the other.
After reading some of the comments I'd like everyone to think about if you would like to be subjected to a psychological evaluation or any ridiculous third party evaluation to practice your rights without any prior history or proof of instability or for reasons what others would call common sense and/or the greater good but you yourself say WTF. There's always a place for testing competency and trust without the need to make a person dance to ridiculous tune of legalism. Would any here approve of a rape victim being subjected to such a test administered by a person possibly harboring a secret antiabortion agenda. Or forcing couples to go through marriage counseling to prevent an outright divorce. Or denying someone with no chance of survival the right to refuse medical treatment to speed the end of their life. I could go on for many pages with legal, medical, and personal rights for this dangerous game of "What if...". Yeah, I'm trying to make my point with hyperbole and sarcasm, sue me.
Let's get down to brass tacks. There's is not one person here that would approve the invasion of their privacy due to the paranoia, bigotry, or just plain ignorance and even spite of others. The price of a free society is that we live under the threat of someone violating that sacred trust that we practice our rights with respect and dignity towards others. We rightly expect that if any are charged in violation of that trust that the burden of proof resides on the accusers not the accused. Yes, there always those that abuse rights without violating the law and we reserve the right to call them assholes.
I don't know how to end this so I'll take a short bow.
| 411 |
RogueOne Thu, Apr 21, 2011 4:21:38am |
Indiana: GOP moves to block walkouts with 'anti-bolting' law
[Link: www.indystar.com...]
Senate Republicans on Wednesday let Democrats know the true price of the walkout that shut down the House for five weeks this session: a proposed "anti-bolting" law that would bar minority party lawmakers from leaving in order to keep the majority party from doing business.
.....
Under the provision, introduced by Sen. Michael Young, R-Indianapolis, legislators who are away for more than three days without a legitimate excuse, such as illness, could have a civil lawsuit lodged against them by a constituent.The penalty? Fines of $1,000 for each day a lawmaker is missing, plus attorney's fees and court costs. The money would go into the state's general fund.
Good.
| 412 |
William Barnett-Lewis Thu, Apr 21, 2011 4:39:13am |
re: #411 RogueOne
Indiana: GOP moves to block walkouts with 'anti-bolting' law
[Link: www.indystar.com...]Good.
Remember that when you're in the minority with no other option to stop bad policy.
| 413 |
RogueOne Thu, Apr 21, 2011 4:41:18am |
re: #412 wlewisiii
Their job is to legislate not take off for 5 weeks when things aren't going their way. We had an election, they lost, and now they've made it worse. One of the bailers was a man I've voted for every election for the last decade, he'll not get my vote next time.
| 414 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Apr 21, 2011 4:41:27am |
| 415 |
William Barnett-Lewis Thu, Apr 21, 2011 4:41:34am |
re: #409 RogueOne
I understand why AZ might want to name a state gun but the Utah 1911 Browning confuses me.
John M. Browning was from Ogden, Utah. The 1911 was his most famous/recognizable design, so it became their state gun. Nothing more or less. Just a way to rah-rah based on State History and to keep the NRA folks happy.
| 416 |
RogueOne Thu, Apr 21, 2011 4:42:27am |
re: #415 wlewisiii
John M. Browning was from Ogden, Utah. The 1911 was his most famous/recognizable design, so it became their state gun...
Now it makes sense.
| 417 |
William Barnett-Lewis Thu, Apr 21, 2011 4:48:32am |
re: #413 RogueOne
Their job is to legislate not take off for 5 weeks when things aren't going their way. We had an election, they lost, and now they've made it worse. One of the bailers was a man I've voted for every election for the last decade, he'll not get my vote next time.
There is no provision for a US Senate style safety mechanism like a filibuster in the Wisconsin (and presumably other) state legislatures, hence we were left with the same weapon Abraham Lincoln once used as an Illinois legislator.
My state senator was the leader of the Wisconsin so I'm the opposite - he's guaranteed my vote for anything he ever runs for.
Current recall count -
Against Republicans: 5 filed, 3 still out.
Against Democrats: 0 filed, 8 still out.
While there are claims that there will be 2 filed against Democrats this week, it still points to where the momentum lies in Wisconsin.
| 418 |
researchok Thu, Apr 21, 2011 4:49:23am |
| 419 |
William Barnett-Lewis Thu, Apr 21, 2011 4:51:33am |
re: #418 researchok
Free elections fix everything.
Except the damage done to children's education in the meantime.
| 420 |
RogueOne Thu, Apr 21, 2011 4:52:35am |
re: #417 wlewisiii
Up until '76 it was illegal for Indiana legislators to take off during session. (Indiana legislators are part-timers and only in session a few months during the year) Why they thought it was a good idea to change that law is beyond me. It should be illegal for my states representatives to take off and hide because they don't like the way things are going. If the minority is allowed to hold the majority hostage what is the point of having elections?
| 421 |
researchok Thu, Apr 21, 2011 4:53:07am |
re: #419 wlewisiii
Except the damage done to children's education in the meantime.
If left as is, walkouts will become business as usual nd nothing will get done.
| 422 |
Obdicut Thu, Apr 21, 2011 4:53:43am |
re: #420 RogueOne
So you disapprove of the filibuster, too? And secret holds in the Senate?
| 423 |
RogueOne Thu, Apr 21, 2011 4:54:13am |
re: #422 Obdicut
So you disapprove of the filibuster, too? And secret holds in the Senate?
Those are rules written into the debate. Running and hiding isn't part of the legislative process.
| 424 |
RogueOne Thu, Apr 21, 2011 4:55:05am |
re: #422 Obdicut
So you disapprove of the filibuster, too? And secret holds in the Senate?
Indiana doesn't have secret holds but they do have the filibuster option.
| 425 |
Obdicut Thu, Apr 21, 2011 4:55:06am |
re: #423 RogueOne
Those are rules written into the debate. Running and hiding isn't part of the legislative process.
Sorry, I thought your concern was for things that let the minority hold the majority hostage, since that's what you said.
| 426 |
RogueOne Thu, Apr 21, 2011 4:56:11am |
re: #425 Obdicut
Sorry, I thought your concern was for things that let the minority hold the majority hostage, since that's what you said.
you missed the preceding sentence that laid out my opposition:
It should be illegal for my states representatives to take off and hide because they don't like the way things are going.
| 427 |
Obdicut Thu, Apr 21, 2011 4:57:22am |
re: #426 RogueOne
Yeah. I thought that you said that because you believed this:
If the minority is allowed to hold the majority hostage what is the point of having elections?
| 428 |
William Barnett-Lewis Thu, Apr 21, 2011 4:58:57am |
re: #421 researchok
If left as is, walkouts will become business as usual nd nothing will get done.
You will notice that, like (many? most? 99%?) of filibusters, the walkouts "stopped" nothing. They did slow down an overwhelming rush and allowed to the public to become informed as to what the majority actually intended to do - which has lead directly to a number of new elections being legally demanded by that same voting public. Imagine that?
| 429 |
RogueOne Thu, Apr 21, 2011 4:58:58am |
Home owner shoots burglar:
Homeowner: No choice but shoot
[Link: www.omaha.com...]
Police said they found evidence of a copper theft.Hall said there was a fresh hole cut in the bathroom wall of the basement apartment. Copper was found in the basement storage room.
Some tools were found in the house, including a hacksaw, pliers and flashlight. A pornographic magazine also was found in one of the other bathrooms. Hall said none of the items was in the house when he did his previous check early Monday.
"Always be prepared" I guess.
| 430 |
Obdicut Thu, Apr 21, 2011 5:00:34am |
re: #429 RogueOne
Or a case of "Call the cops, then when they get their to search, remember you left your pr0n lying in a bathroom, blame it on the burglar".
| 431 |
RogueOne Thu, Apr 21, 2011 5:01:41am |
re: #428 wlewisiii
You will notice that, like (many? most? 99%?) of filibusters, the walkouts "stopped" nothing. They did slow down an overwhelming rush and allowed to the public to become informed as to what the majority actually intended to do - which has lead directly to a number of new elections being legally demanded by that same voting public. Imagine that?
I'm arguing from an Indiana POV, if the people in WI want to continue to allow legislators to bolt that's their business. It's happened here (usually for no more than a week) off and on for the last couple of decades. It's gotten old and needs to be outlawed.
| 432 |
RogueOne Thu, Apr 21, 2011 5:02:52am |
re: #430 Obdicut
Or a case of "Call the cops, then when they get their to search, remember you left your pr0n lying in a bathroom, blame it on the burglar".
Ha! I know I love to work with steel so maybe this guy has a copper fetish.
| 433 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Apr 21, 2011 5:02:53am |
We interrupt this argument to bring you this message...
FBV's wife bought skim milk. Just turned blue in his cereal. He is pissed.
Back to the arguing.
| 434 |
researchok Thu, Apr 21, 2011 5:04:21am |
re: #428 wlewisiii
You will notice that, like (many? most? 99%?) of filibusters, the walkouts "stopped" nothing. They did slow down an overwhelming rush and allowed to the public to become informed as to what the majority actually intended to do - which has lead directly to a number of new elections being legally demanded by that same voting public. Imagine that?
Why not just have a policy of walkouts when parties can't agree? That's good and effective government, right?
Drms can walk out of GOP majorities and the GOP can walk out and paralyze Dem majorities.
How about we just allow elections decide? If people aren't happy they can throw the bums out.
| 435 |
researchok Thu, Apr 21, 2011 5:05:18am |
re: #433 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
We interrupt this argument to bring you this message...
FBV's wife bought skim milk. Just turned blue in his cereal. He is pissed.
Back to the arguing.
I'll bet FBV's wife is an admirer of Castro, too.
//
| 436 |
Obdicut Thu, Apr 21, 2011 5:06:27am |
re: #434 researchok
I'm curious as to if the use of the filibuster to prevent majority legislation from coming to a vote seems different than a walkout to you, and if so, why.
| 438 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Apr 21, 2011 5:08:50am |
re: #434 researchok
Speaking of walk-outs...
One of the funniest bits EVAH! on the "Tonight Show" was with Steve Martin. After his interview, Johnny said, (paraphrasing), "Thanks for being on the show Steve, we know you have somewhere you have to be and can't stay for the whole show, but thanks for coming by."
Steve waves at the audience and leaves. About a third of the way through the next interview Steve came back in ashamed, sat down and admitted, "I really didn't have anywhere I needed to be. I see people do that, like they're important, and I wanted to look important too."
Johnny about collapsed. Was a great moment.
| 439 |
Obdicut Thu, Apr 21, 2011 5:09:31am |
re: #438 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Carson really enjoyed his guests. Or at least tried to. One of the things that set him apart from a lot of others.
| 440 |
researchok Thu, Apr 21, 2011 5:11:52am |
re: #436 Obdicut
I'm curious as to if the use of the filibuster to prevent majority legislation from coming to a vote seems different than a walkout to you, and if so, why.
Filibusters are a part of the process (for better or worse). Further, filibusters do not prevent the parties from negotiating in close quarters. Walkouts are designed to break the process and negotiating from a long distance isn't the same.
Left unadressed, walkouts will escalate into petty, partisan expressions.
| 441 |
RogueOne Thu, Apr 21, 2011 5:14:41am |
Speaking of the Indiana walkout:
The case of the missing walkout poll
[Link: www.capitolandwashington.com...]
On March 9, Democrats paid Peter Hart of the polling firm Hart Research Associates, $15,000 to presumably conduct a poll to see how the walkout was playing. They must not have liked the answer.
....
According to an American Viewpoint Poll taken around the same time, Hoosier voters responded with overwhelming disapproval of the Democrat walkout. The poll showed 66% of voters disapproved of Democrat’s tactics, including 65% of independent voters. Only 30% approved of Democrat’s actions, and among them only 10% strongly approved. Contrast that with the 66% of voters who disapproved, 59% strongly disapproved.Only 6% of voters responded that they would be much more likely to vote for a Democrat who participated in the walkout, while 52% said they would be more likely to vote for a Republican. In addition, Democrats earned a 59% disapproval rating among voters. House Republicans in March had a +15% approval margin over House Democrats.
| 442 |
researchok Thu, Apr 21, 2011 5:15:47am |
re: #441 RogueOne
Speaking of the Indiana walkout:
The case of the missing walkout poll
[Link: www.capitolandwashington.com...]
I'm shocked I tell you, shocked.
| 444 |
Obdicut Thu, Apr 21, 2011 5:16:50am |
re: #440 researchok
Filibusters are a part of the process (for better or worse).
That's not an answer. That they're part of the process says nothing about their virtues.
Further, filibusters do not prevent the parties from negotiating in close quarters.
Meh. True, but that seems rather trivial to me, at least as a reason to uphold them.
Walkouts are designed to break the process and negotiating from a long distance isn't the same.
Filibusters have strayed very, very far from their original design. They were designed so that bills couldn't ram through without debate from the opposition. Now they're used to simply stop legislation without a supermajority. That's breaking the process as well.
Left unadressed, walkouts will escalate into petty, partisan expressions.
But that's what filibusters-- and holds, and lack of confirmation or even hearings on appointments-- have become. So why isn't it important to address that?
| 445 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Apr 21, 2011 5:17:41am |
re: #439 Obdicut
Carson really enjoyed his guests. Or at least tried to. One of the things that set him apart from a lot of others.
If you're a comic and Johnny was seen laughing at you? You were gold.
Steve Martin still says that it made his career.
| 446 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Apr 21, 2011 5:19:27am |
re: #444 Obdicut
Roberts Rules of Order. (Playground Edition)
| 447 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, Apr 21, 2011 5:26:15am |
I see nostalgia [as] a memory sentimentalized, fictionalized in certain ways, and if memory is history the same is true. The more you sentimentalize, the more you simplify. The more you simplify, the more you lie. That's why poetry and fiction which tries to mirror complexity in as concentrated way as possible is what I like to read and try to write.
-Michael Moorcock
sentimentality and nostalgia feeding simplicity and thus lies, it seems to be a good description of the GOP at the moment
| 448 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, Apr 21, 2011 5:27:28am |
re: #439 Obdicut
the closest we have to a Carson for our generation...probably Jon Stewart? But there's no new Carson because media is too fragmented, there's no one place to go, like the TV set anymore
| 449 |
RogueOne Thu, Apr 21, 2011 5:31:17am |
Good coverage of the Hetherington death in the Daily Beast:
Libya War Photographers' Final Hours
[Link: www.thedailybeast.com...]
By late afternoon, the horrible news had been confirmed. Tim Hetherington and Chris Hondros, two decorated, veteran war photographers, were dead, apparently killed by a mortar shell as they documented the siege of the city by Muammar Gaddafi’s army. Two colleagues who were with them were wounded, one seriously. Just hours before, their photos had been moving across wires, and the Washington Post had run a Hondros photo on its front page Wednesday morning. Suddenly, two of the leading photojournalists of their generation were gone.In an ironic twist, Hetherington's final tweet said Misrata was subject to indiscriminate shelling, and that there was no sign of NATO air support.
| 450 |
Obdicut Thu, Apr 21, 2011 5:31:48am |
re: #448 WindUpBird
Conan does a good job of generally being into his guests and happy with them. So does Craig Ferguson. But it's not the same.
It's really hard to pin down what made Carson Carson.
| 451 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, Apr 21, 2011 5:31:58am |
re: #433 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
We interrupt this argument to bring you this message...
FBV's wife bought skim milk. Just turned blue in his cereal. He is pissed.
Back to the arguing.
skim milk on cereal is an ABOMINATION BEFORE SAINT CHOCULA
I'd rather eat it dry, bleah
| 452 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Apr 21, 2011 5:32:05am |
re: #448 WindUpBird
the closest we have to a Carson for our generation...probably Jon Stewart? But there's no new Carson because media is too fragmented, there's no one place to go, like the TV set anymore
I try watching Leno and the guys. You can see the set-ups coming from a mile away. Johnny had the slight of hand going on those, IMO.
The other thing? For me? Johnny thought that some stuff was funny as hell. He really laughed, from the soles of his feet.
Jack Benny had the same type of laugh. When he laughed? It was from his depths.
Just watching either of those two laugh sends me into fits.
| 453 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, Apr 21, 2011 5:32:38am |
re: #450 Obdicut
Conan does a good job of generally being into his guests and happy with them. So does Craig Ferguson. But it's not the same.
It's really hard to pin down what made Carson Carson.
perfect man for his time, really!
| 454 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, Apr 21, 2011 5:33:16am |
re: #452 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
leno is just not funny to me, ick
Seems like an okay dude, but not funny
| 455 |
Obdicut Thu, Apr 21, 2011 5:34:58am |
re: #452 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Stephen Fry is a lot like that. He really, really loves being amused by others. If you haven't watched Quite Interesting, you should.
| 456 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, Apr 21, 2011 5:35:16am |
the digital delay pedal is the greatest gift God ever gave a bad guitarist, hah
| 457 |
RogueOne Thu, Apr 21, 2011 5:36:19am |
re: #448 WindUpBird
the closest we have to a Carson for our generation...probably Jon Stewart? But there's no new Carson because media is too fragmented, there's no one place to go, like the TV set anymore
I really like Stewart. He's funny and he knows how to disagree without being a dick. I wish more people would follow the Daily Shows lead and put the whole interview, uncut, online.
| 458 |
William Barnett-Lewis Thu, Apr 21, 2011 5:36:50am |
Carson was the only one I enjoyed. If a bit of his comes on, I'll watch it no matter how many times I've already seen it.
Leno is "meh".
Conan is dull.
Letterman is actively annoying on his good days.
| 459 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, Apr 21, 2011 5:37:53am |
save as: thingthatgoesechoforever
| 460 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Apr 21, 2011 5:38:51am |
re: #452 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Jack Benny story...
Jack Benny and George Burns were at a party at Jeanette MacDonald's house. They found out that Jeanette was going to sing for the guests.
George whispered to Jack, "It would be very inappropriate if you were to laugh while Miss MacDonald sings."
Upon Jeannette's first note of Indian Love Call; Jack Benny burst out laughing louder than she was singing.
From George's book, to my memory, to this post.
| 461 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, Apr 21, 2011 5:39:17am |
re: #458 wlewisiii
I like letterman, like conan, don't like leno, loved conan, love Jon Stewart
imho, Stewart is the only one who is even in the ballpark of Carson. All the others are playing the old game. Stewart has created a new game.
| 462 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, Apr 21, 2011 5:39:46am |
| 463 |
RogueOne Thu, Apr 21, 2011 5:47:14am |
WTF is wrong with people:
Bomb, propane tanks found at Colorado mall
[Link: news.yahoo.com...]
LITTLETON, Colo. – Investigators want to question a person of interest about a pipe bomb and propane tanks found after a fire at a Littleton mall, a discovery that raised the possibility of a connection to the Columbine massacre anniversary.Firefighters found two propane tanks and the bomb near the Southwest Plaza Mall's food court after a small fire broke out Wednesday that was quickly squelched. The mall was evacuated around noon. No one was injured and the bombs didn't explode.
Wednesday was the 12th anniversary of the shooting rampage at nearby Columbine High School and officials expressed concern that the mall incident could be somehow linked.
| 466 |
RogueOne Thu, Apr 21, 2011 6:04:54am |
Oops:
Only hours after winning the Copa del Rey trophy for the first time in 18 years, the Real Madrid soccer team accidental dropped the cup in front of their bus during a victory parade and watched it being crushed under the wheels of the vehicle.
"It is not in good shape, evidently, it was run over by a bus," Madrid spokeswoman Marta Santisteban tells The AP.
| 467 |
ProGunLiberal Thu, Apr 21, 2011 6:10:37am |
Off topic, but the Berbers in Libya ran out of the mountains, and sacked the border town of Wazzin for the Rebels:
1:28pm
Al Jazeera Arabic channel's reporter from the Tunisian side has reported that the rebels’ flag is now raised on the Wazin crossing.Eye witnesses said that about 100 Gaddafi forces fighters, thought to have been guarding the crossing, have fled to Tunisian side after being attacked by the rebels.
Rebels’ victory is a surprise because they had been heavily shelled by Gaddafi forces in the last few days
A Tunisian hospital near Wazin crossing is now treating people injured in Libya, including some Gaddafi troops.
| 468 |
Petero1818 Thu, Apr 21, 2011 6:17:20am |
re: #354 Shiplord Kirel
In any case, we cannot let paranoid conspiracy theories dictate legislation, especially not in matters of life and death.
Boy its going to be a short legislative docket.../
| 469 |
Romantic Heretic Thu, Apr 21, 2011 6:26:08am |
| 470 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Apr 21, 2011 6:32:26am |
re: #467 ProLifeLiberal
They carpeted the village with troops?
| 471 |
RogueOne Thu, Apr 21, 2011 6:35:25am |
re: #470 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
They carpeted the village with troops?
Carpeting is easy, it's the tile laying that will get ya.
| 472 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Apr 21, 2011 6:37:04am |
| 473 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Thu, Apr 21, 2011 6:43:13am |
re: #472 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
LOL. At least their plan didn't unravel.
| 474 |
darthstar Thu, Apr 21, 2011 6:47:03am |
re: #473 prononymous
LOL. At least their plan didn't unravel.
Great...I wake up and the first thread I read has me floored.
| 475 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Thu, Apr 21, 2011 6:52:38am |
re: #474 darthstar
Great...I wake up and the first thread I read has me floored.
Yeah, we're just cutting up a rug over here.
| 476 |
darthstar Thu, Apr 21, 2011 6:54:33am |
re: #475 thedopefishlives
Yeah, we're just cutting up a rug over here.
at a place called "The Jug" with a girl named Linda-Lou?
| 477 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Thu, Apr 21, 2011 6:55:01am |
re: #475 thedopefishlives
Yeah, we're just cutting up a rug over here.
So you think this thread is on the right tack?
| 478 |
Daniel Ballard Thu, Apr 21, 2011 6:55:35am |
re: #475 thedopefishlives
Shaggy hair? Go see a berber.
| 479 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Thu, Apr 21, 2011 6:57:15am |
re: #477 oaktree
So you think this thread is on the right tack?
Nope. Soon it will be deep in the pile.
| 480 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Apr 21, 2011 6:58:34am |
re: #479 prononymous
This is getting un-seamly.
| 481 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Thu, Apr 21, 2011 6:59:28am |
| 482 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Apr 21, 2011 6:59:36am |
Anybody watch "Game of Thrones" the other night?
| 483 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Thu, Apr 21, 2011 7:00:17am |
re: #482 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Anybody watch "Game of Thrones" the other night?
Yes. Seems to follow the book rather well so far.
| 484 |
darthstar Thu, Apr 21, 2011 7:02:36am |
Okay...it's 7ish...time to go run the dogs (and my own fat ass) along the beach. Play nice, everyone. Try not to leave a mess on the carpet.
| 485 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Apr 21, 2011 7:03:15am |
re: #483 prononymous
Watched it with my son, who agrees. I haven't read the books, but am not averse to seeing gratuitous boobie shots.
| 486 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Apr 21, 2011 7:03:59am |
Oh crap! Look at the time! Bye!
| 487 |
RogueOne Thu, Apr 21, 2011 7:22:49am |
re: #484 darthstar
Okay...it's 7ish...time to go run the dogs (and my own fat ass) along the beach. Play nice, everyone. Try not to leave a mess on the carpet.
I just about did. I decided to start the ab exercises from p90x and just finished. I almost died and left a big stain on the carpet.
| 488 |
Gus Thu, Apr 21, 2011 7:25:51am |
Yet another outsourcing, tax skirting corporation posting record profits. This time it's GE reporting almost 80 percent gains. I don't want to hear anymore bullshit about this country being broke. We're not broke. And of course the wingnuts will defend GE this time around even though not so long ago they were bitching and moaning about GE for not only being a part of MSNBCeleventy but for their connection with Iran and as hyped up by Bill O'Reilly.
| 489 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Apr 21, 2011 7:28:14am |
re: #488 Gus 802
Some one should tell Big Oil to make that kind of cash. And good morning Honcos.
| 490 |
Gus Thu, Apr 21, 2011 7:29:58am |
re: #489 Cannadian Club Akbar
Some one should tell Big Oil to make that kind of cash. And good morning Honcos.
We'll have to probably wait for the second quarter. I'm sure they will. And I'm sure that being the "God bless America" and "PaTrIoTic!" companies that they are they'll be sharing the wealth and trickling it down to the rest of us minions. That would be a first.
| 491 |
Slap Thu, Apr 21, 2011 7:30:32am |
re: #447 WindUpBird
-Michael Moorcock
sentimentality and nostalgia feeding simplicity and thus lies, it seems to be a good description of the GOP at the moment
Quote Moorcock, get upding from Slap. It's just that simple.
| 492 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Apr 21, 2011 7:34:07am |
re: #490 Gus 802
Yes. Big oil makes about an 8% profit. Meanwhile your local Chili's makes 15% and who knows what Starbucks makes. But fajitas and coffee drive our economy.
| 493 |
sattv4u2 Thu, Apr 21, 2011 7:35:27am |
re: #492 Cannadian Club Akbar
Yes. Big oil makes about an 8% profit. Meanwhile your local Chili's makes 15% and who knows what Starbucks makes. But fajitas and coffee drive our economy.
BIG FAJITAS ARE RIPPING US OFF!!
{burp}
Siesta!
| 494 |
RogueOne Thu, Apr 21, 2011 7:36:23am |
re: #488 Gus 802
Yet another outsourcing, tax skirting corporation posting record profits. This time it's GE reporting almost 80 percent gains. I don't want to hear anymore bullshit about this country being broke. We're not broke. And of course the wingnuts will defend GE this time around even though not so long ago they were bitching and moaning about GE for not only being a part of MSNBCeleventy but for their connection with Iran and as hyped up by Bill O'Reilly.
Two things. They had huge annual gains because they had massive losses from the high of 2006. In 2006 the fortune 500 had $785 million in profit, that's barely half of the annual US budget deficit. I agree there needs to be changes to the tax code but the numbers need to be kept in perspective.
| 495 |
Gus Thu, Apr 21, 2011 7:36:53am |
re: #492 Cannadian Club Akbar
Yes. Big oil makes about an 8% profit. Meanwhile your local Chili's makes 15% and who knows what Starbucks makes. But fajitas and coffee drive our economy.
I'll take an order of fajitas with a big old dollop of Crisco and a side order of Boot Licking Sauce.
//
| 496 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Apr 21, 2011 7:37:00am |
re: #493 sattv4u2
BIG FAJITAS ARE RIPPING US OFF!!
{burp}
Siesta!
Some day I'll tell you the cut of meat they use for beef fajitas.
| 497 |
Tigger2005 Thu, Apr 21, 2011 7:37:35am |
re: #492 Cannadian Club Akbar
Yes. Big oil makes about an 8% profit. Meanwhile your local Chili's makes 15% and who knows what Starbucks makes. But fajitas and coffee drive our economy.
I'm drinking fresh-ground 8 O'clock coffee. Arabica medium roast. Didn't know it was a patriotic act! (Lifts cup) God bless America!
| 498 |
sattv4u2 Thu, Apr 21, 2011 7:37:45am |
re: #490 Gus 802
they'll be sharing the wealth and trickling it down to the rest of us minions. That would be a first.
Actually ,, they kinda do
Or don't you have gas stations in your area (you know,, that sell other things besides gas and have, well,, employees that get paid!Q)
Oh ,, and ask Reines hubby if he gets a paycheck
| 500 |
RogueOne Thu, Apr 21, 2011 7:38:29am |
re: #496 Cannadian Club Akbar
Some day I'll tell you the cut of meat they use for beef fajitas.
It's not cat is it? As long as it tastes good I don't really care I guess.
| 501 |
sattv4u2 Thu, Apr 21, 2011 7:39:42am |
re: #496 Cannadian Club Akbar
Some day I'll tell you the cut of meat they use for beef fajitas.
Is it the part that went over the fence last??
Yummy!
| 502 |
jaunte Thu, Apr 21, 2011 7:41:08am |
re: #495 Gus 802
The Motley Fool looks ahead:
Wednesday
Chipotle Mexican Grill(NYSE: CMG) and Qualcomm(Nasdaq: QCOM) report on Wednesday. The two companies both have a way with chips, but they have little else in common. Well, yes, both companies are also expected to post modest year-over-year improvements on the bottom line. [Link: money.msn.com...]
| 503 |
sattv4u2 Thu, Apr 21, 2011 7:41:34am |
re: #500 RogueOne
It's not cat is it? As long as it tastes good I don't really care I guess.
Had a freind back home that used to go to Boston Commons and catch pigeons then bring them/ sell them to restaurants in the ChinaTown section!
| 504 |
Gus Thu, Apr 21, 2011 7:41:56am |
re: #498 sattv4u2
they'll be sharing the wealth and trickling it down to the rest of us minions. That would be a first.
Actually ,, they kinda do
Or don't you have gas stations in your area (you know,, that sell other things besides gas and have, well,, employees that get paid!Q)
Oh ,, and ask Reines hubby if he gets a paycheck
Pardon my French but that's bullshit.
See that chart? Most of the jobs are still going overseas and it's accelerating. And I wasn't posting about "Big Oil" I posted about General Electric.
| 505 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Apr 21, 2011 7:42:40am |
re: #502 jaunte
The Motley Fool looks ahead:
Chipolte is basically the same as Subway but with burritos.
| 506 |
sattv4u2 Thu, Apr 21, 2011 7:42:58am |
re: #504 Gus 802
Pardon my French but that's bullshit.
See that chart? Most of the jobs are still going overseas and it's accelerating. And I wasn't posting about "Big Oil" I posted about General Electric.
Really? So you have to go to India to fill up your car with gas and buy a lottery ticket?
| 507 |
RogueOne Thu, Apr 21, 2011 7:43:05am |
re: #499 Gus 802
Here comes the excuses.
Not excuses, perspective:
[Link: money.cnn.com...]
The numbers tell the story. From the all-time high of $785 billion in 2006, Fortune 500 earnings slipped to a robust, even bubble-level, $645 billion in 2007. The real damage came last year, when profits plunged to $98.9 billion for 2008, a decline of 87% from 2006.
[Link: finance.yahoo.com...]
For 2009, the Fortune 500 lifted earnings 335%, to $391 billion, a $301 billion jump that's the second largest in the list's 56-year history
| 509 |
sattv4u2 Thu, Apr 21, 2011 7:44:18am |
| 510 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Apr 21, 2011 7:44:28am |
| 511 |
Ericus58 Thu, Apr 21, 2011 7:45:29am |
re: #508 Gus 802
Deal with those here now, not ghosts from the past.
And counter-points are not excuses when supplied with data.
| 512 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Apr 21, 2011 7:47:48am |
Turbo Tax Timmy. I am sure I will be called an asshole for those 3 words. And other stuff.:)
| 513 |
Obdicut Thu, Apr 21, 2011 7:47:52am |
re: #507 RogueOne
I'm, sorry, what perspective dos that bring?
A) Corporations are making profits.
B) Corporations are cutting jobs in the US and increasing them abroad, even while they enjoy profits in the US.
C) Some corporations are using the many loopholes and subsidies to actually get refunds, while actually having profits.
The most important part is B. Those who advocate for cutting taxes in order to promote job growth really need to explain why that will work, given that, while making profits, corporations are cutting jobs.
| 514 |
sattv4u2 Thu, Apr 21, 2011 7:51:34am |
re: #513 Obdicut
Those who advocate for cutting taxes in order to promote job growth really need to explain why that will work, given that, while making profits, corporations are cutting jobs
By your own statement, they are not "cutting jobs". They are outsourcing them.
WHY?
Cheaper overhead (taxes, labor, facilties, ect)
So it can be argued that anything that lowers overhead here in the states will induce the corp to keep the jobs here
| 515 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Apr 21, 2011 7:51:53am |
I hope to one day make enough money to pay 26% in taxes!!!
//
| 516 |
sattv4u2 Thu, Apr 21, 2011 7:53:20am |
re: #515 Cannadian Club Akbar
I hope to one day make enough money to pay 26% in taxes!!!
//
I hope one day to make enough to take advantage of the myriad of loopholes that our ponderous tax system affords us!
//
| 517 |
allegro Thu, Apr 21, 2011 7:54:16am |
re: #514 sattv4u2
By your own statement, they are not "cutting jobs". They are outsourcing them.
WHY?Cheaper overhead (taxes, labor, facilties, ect)
So it can be argued that anything that lowers overhead here in the states will induce the corp to keep the jobs here
I'm pleased to see that you support single payer universal health care!
| 518 |
jaunte Thu, Apr 21, 2011 7:54:20am |
re: #513 Obdicut
B) Corporations are cutting jobs in the US and increasing them abroad, even while they enjoy profits in the US.
I would bet that most of the executives who pursue this strategy choose not to live in southeast Asia themselves.
| 519 |
sattv4u2 Thu, Apr 21, 2011 7:54:31am |
And on that note, TBS and the NBA request my presence on the daily NBA playoff transmissions conference call
BBL
| 520 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Apr 21, 2011 7:54:45am |
re: #516 sattv4u2
I hope one day to make enough to take advantage of the myriad of loopholes that our ponderous tax system affords us!
//
But, but, paying taxes is Patriotic!!!
/
| 521 |
Obdicut Thu, Apr 21, 2011 7:56:00am |
re: #514 sattv4u2
By your own statement, they are not "cutting jobs". They are outsourcing them.
WHY?
Semantic bullshit. They're cutting jobs in the US.
WHY?
Cheaper overhead (taxes, labor, facilties, ect)
No. Not taxes. Only taxes actually applicable to labor belongs in that list. Taxes on profits obviously don't apply.
So it can be argued that anything that lowers overhead here in the states will induce the corp to keep the jobs here
Only if it lowers it to the extent that US labor costs-- and therefore US labor standard of living-- goes down to the point that it is in China, India, etc.
That is the hyper-capitalist scenario, where labor is fully exploited. You surely don't actually want that scenario, right? You don't want teenagers working 14 hour days in the US, do you?
| 522 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Thu, Apr 21, 2011 7:56:03am |
re: #507 RogueOne
Not excuses, perspective:
[Link: money.cnn.com...]
[Link: finance.yahoo.com...]
This does not appear to address the case of General Electric specifically.
| 523 |
Interesting Times Thu, Apr 21, 2011 7:56:24am |
re: #514 sattv4u2
So it can be argued that anything that lowers overhead here in the states will induce the corp to keep the jobs here
Let's bring these working conditions to America. Problem solved.
| 524 |
sattv4u2 Thu, Apr 21, 2011 7:56:33am |
re: #517 allegro
I'm pleased to see that you support single payer universal health care!
The manager of the Human Resources dept of my company has told me if we go that route we'll have many MANY more layoffs,, so,, umm, NO !
| 525 |
Obdicut Thu, Apr 21, 2011 7:57:09am |
re: #520 Cannadian Club Akbar
It is. I pay a bucketload of taxes, and feel that it's worth it-- and more-- because I live in an amazing country that still has tons of promise.
I don't get why people think that it's mockable or funny to have patriotism related to out government. Compared to the corruption and anarchy in so much of the world, we've got a great system of government.
| 526 |
Obdicut Thu, Apr 21, 2011 7:57:30am |
re: #524 sattv4u2
The manager of the Human Resources dept of my company has told me if we go that route we'll have many MANY more layoffs,, so,, umm, NO !
Why would she say that? What did she say was the relationship?
| 527 |
allegro Thu, Apr 21, 2011 7:58:14am |
re: #524 sattv4u2
The manager of the Human Resources dept of my company has told me if we go that route we'll have many MANY more layoffs,, so,, umm, NO !
How would taking health care off the backs of employers result in layoffs? That makes no sense.
The fact is that some companies are taking their headquarters to Canada for this very reason. Please explain that.
| 528 |
RogueOne Thu, Apr 21, 2011 7:59:17am |
re: #513 Obdicut
I'm, sorry, what perspective dos that bring?
A) Corporations are making profits.
That's the perspective. An 80% increase sounds massive until you take into account the losses during the last few years.
B) Corporations are cutting jobs in the US and increasing them abroad, even while they enjoy profits in the US.C) Some corporations are using the many loopholes and subsidies to actually get refunds, while actually having profits.
The most important part is B. Those who advocate for cutting taxes in order to promote job growth really need to explain why that will work, given that, while making profits, corporations are cutting jobs.
Can I then assume you're not supportive of the tax code revisions ("closing loopholes and broadening the tax base") the presidents debt commission suggested? The idea that we can selectively raise taxes rates and bring in more than 20% of GDP goes against 60 years of history.
| 529 |
allegro Thu, Apr 21, 2011 7:59:55am |
re: #527 allegro
Oh wait... I get it. It would result in the layoffs of Human Resources employees who are no longer needed to manage all the health care stuff. There it is.
| 530 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Apr 21, 2011 7:59:58am |
re: #525 Obdicut
It is. I pay a bucketload of taxes, and feel that it's worth it-- and more-- because I live in an amazing country that still has tons of promise.
I don't get why people think that it's mockable or funny to have patriotism related to out government. Compared to the corruption and anarchy in so much of the world, we've got a great system of government.
good for you. I have a problem with people who tell me what I need to pay in taxes then don't pay what they think I should. Tax lawyer anyone?
| 531 |
Obdicut Thu, Apr 21, 2011 8:00:26am |
re: #528 RogueOne
That's the perspective. An 80% increase sounds massive until you take into account the losses during the last few years.
It's kind of moot, though, isn't it?
Can I then assume you're not supportive of the tax code revisions ("closing loopholes and broadening the tax base") the presidents debt commission suggested? The idea that we can selectively raise taxes rates and bring in more than 20% of GDP goes against 60 years of history.
I'm sorry, what are you talking about? Of course I'm in favor of closing loopholes.
What does your statement here have to do with what I said, in any way?
| 532 |
Obdicut Thu, Apr 21, 2011 8:00:48am |
re: #530 Cannadian Club Akbar
good for you. I have a problem with people who tell me what I need to pay in taxes then don't pay what they think I should. Tax lawyer anyone?
Can you point out someone like this, please?
| 533 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Thu, Apr 21, 2011 8:01:58am |
re: #528 RogueOne
That's the perspective. An 80% increase sounds massive until you take into account the losses during the last few years.
How much were GE's losses during the last few years?
| 534 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Apr 21, 2011 8:02:41am |
re: #532 Obdicut
Can you point out someone like this, please?
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]
26%. Not 35%.
| 535 |
Obdicut Thu, Apr 21, 2011 8:04:20am |
re: #534 Cannadian Club Akbar
I'm sorry, I'm really losing track of what you're talking about. Obama is pushing for higher taxes on his own income. How is that asking for higher taxes on you?
| 536 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Apr 21, 2011 8:06:52am |
re: #535 Obdicut
I'm sorry, I'm really losing track of what you're talking about. Obama is pushing for higher taxes on his own income. How is that asking for higher taxes on you?
I'll type slower. What is the tax rate on people making 1.7 million dollars?
| 537 |
Obdicut Thu, Apr 21, 2011 8:09:24am |
re: #536 Cannadian Club Akbar
I'll type slower. What is the tax rate on people making 1.7 million dollars?
The current tax rate is 35%, reduced by things like charitable giving and other tax exemptions and deductions.
Obama wants that rate raised, so that he would wind up paying more, and some of the exemptions and deductions ended. After that, he'd pay more in tax. He's promoting a tax raise that would affect himself.
| 538 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Apr 21, 2011 8:10:25am |
re: #537 Obdicut
IIRC, charitable giving is deducted before the AGI.
| 539 |
Obdicut Thu, Apr 21, 2011 8:12:52am |
re: #538 Cannadian Club Akbar
IIRC, charitable giving is deducted before the AGI.
I think that's right. So, they took the various tax deductions, and paid taxes on their post-deduction income. And they want to raise their own taxes and end some of their exemptions.
What is wrong with that? Where are they asking you to pay higher taxes than they are asking for themselves?
| 540 |
RogueOne Thu, Apr 21, 2011 8:16:17am |
re: #531 Obdicut
It's kind of moot, though, isn't it?
I'm sorry, what are you talking about? Of course I'm in favor of closing loopholes.
What does your statement here have to do with what I said, in any way?
You said:
B) Corporations are cutting jobs in the US and increasing them abroad, even while they enjoy profits in the US.C) Some corporations are using the many loopholes and subsidies to actually get refunds, while actually having profits.
The most important part is B. Those who advocate for cutting taxes in order to promote job growth really need to explain why that will work, given that, while making profits, corporations are cutting jobs.
My question was related to those statements. The debt commission plan is to dump all the loopholes, broaden the tax base, and cut corporate taxes. It's also the same idea that Ryan put forward.
| 541 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Apr 21, 2011 8:17:29am |
re: #539 Obdicut
The President paid 26% on 1.7 million. Not 35%. So, do as I say?
| 542 |
RogueOne Thu, Apr 21, 2011 8:22:09am |
re: #533 prononymous
How much were GE's losses during the last few years?
Everything you wanted to know about GE finances:
[Link: www.gereports.com...]
[Link: www.gereports.com...]
Claim: GE and other U.S. companies use overseas tax “shelters” to avoid paying their fair share of U.S. taxes.
Fact: The United States is virtually the only major industrialized country that taxes overseas earnings of companies. GE and many other companies — and, for that matter, Congress and administrations over many decades — have supported deferral of tax on foreign earnings for all companies. Doing so makes U.S. companies more competitive globally. This is not a “shelter,” it is good policy.
[Link: www.bloomberg.com...]
GE’s consolidated tax rate was 37 percentage points higher than a year earlier, reflecting the company’s projection that the rate would rise significantly after the NBC sale.The company’s taxes have been in the public spotlight since the New York Times reported March 24 that GE had a tax bill of zero in 2010, an assertion the company called misleading on its GE Reports website. The criticism prompted a hoax press release last week.
GE has rebuffed the tax bill claim specifically and said the company received no rebate, refund or payment from the government on its 2010 taxes.
| 543 |
Obdicut Thu, Apr 21, 2011 8:22:41am |
re: #540 RogueOne
My question was related to those statements. The debt commission plan is to dump all the loopholes, broaden the tax base, and cut corporate taxes. It's also the same idea that Ryan put forward.
I'm actually in favor of 0% corporate taxes, while raising income and capital gains taxes. I think corporate taxation generally winds up as a muddle no matter what. Corporations simply have too much ability to restructure income.
But yeah, reducing the highest tier income tax? The exact opposite of what we need to do right now.
I just have no clue why you're bringing it up. It has nothing to do with the fact that corporations, while enjoying profits, are not creating jobs in the US.
That is the basic point: We are told by the reflexive "lower taxes" types that taxation needs to be reduced so that jobs will be created. However, corporations are already receiving profits, but they're creating jobs overseas-- helped by a tax code that actually benefits them from doing so.
| 544 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Apr 21, 2011 8:22:59am |
re: #541 Cannadian Club Akbar
The President paid 26% on 1.7 million. Not 35%. So, do as I say?
I'll never understand the notion that you must show willing on tax reform by not doing your taxes under the extant law.
| 545 |
Obdicut Thu, Apr 21, 2011 8:23:51am |
re: #541 Cannadian Club Akbar
The President paid 26% on 1.7 million. Not 35%. So, do as I say?
What are you talking about? Do you think Obama is saying that nobody should take any exemptions or deductions right now? He's not.
So what are you complaining about? He's advocating his own taxes be raised, and some of those deductions be taken away, so that he'd pay more in the future.
How on earth does it make sense to you to point out that he's not paying the higher tax rates right now?
| 546 |
RogueOne Thu, Apr 21, 2011 8:24:03am |
re: #544 SanFranciscoZionist
I'll never understand the notion that you must show willing on tax reform by not doing your taxes under the extant law.
If there is a rebate or a credit, I'm taking it!
| 547 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Apr 21, 2011 8:26:04am |
re: #545 Obdicut
I'm not complaining. But perhaps he should pay his taxes with the existing rate. And he isn't.
| 548 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Apr 21, 2011 8:26:09am |
re: #546 RogueOne
If there is a rebate or a credit, I'm taking it!
Almost everyone will. More than that, free-will love offerings are not a substitute for a well-thought-out tax code.
| 549 |
lawhawk Thu, Apr 21, 2011 8:26:53am |
re: #546 RogueOne
And that's what the President, and GE have done - they're both operating under existing law and following proper tax guidance are taking advantage of all the available tax credits, deductions, exemptions, and in the case of GE, net operating loss carryovers and other legal tax avoidance techniques to minimize its tax burden.
Heck, if they weren't taking advantage of these credits, deductions, exemptions, or loss/gain provisions, they would be getting bad advice from their tax advisers.
| 550 |
Obdicut Thu, Apr 21, 2011 8:27:24am |
re: #547 Cannadian Club Akbar
I'm not complaining. But perhaps he should pay his taxes with the existing rate. And he isn't.
No, he is. He's paying his taxes with the existing rate. That's exactly what he's doing. I don't understand why you claim he's not.
The existing rate is that you pay 35% taxes on your income after you deduct your charitable giving and other deductions. That is what the rate is.
And that is what he's paying.
And yet, he wants to actually raise the amount of taxes he, himself, pays.
And somehow this gets him attacked. I just don't get it.
| 551 |
RogueOne Thu, Apr 21, 2011 8:27:56am |
re: #543 Obdicut
That is the basic point: We are told by the reflexive "lower taxes" types that taxation needs to be reduced so that jobs will be created. However, corporations are already receiving profits, but they're creating jobs overseas-- helped by a tax code that actually benefits them from doing so.
People will take their business where they can get the best deal on taxes, productivity, and a variety of other market forces. I hear people complain all the time about "outsourcing" while the US does its best to take as much business from France/Germany/Italy/Japan (all international corps with facilities in Indiana btw). You cannot stop outsourcing, the best you can do is make our system as competitive as possible.
| 552 |
Obdicut Thu, Apr 21, 2011 8:28:04am |
| 553 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Apr 21, 2011 8:29:14am |
re: #550 Obdicut
He isn't paying 35%. I'm sorry, is that to hard to understand?
| 554 |
lawhawk Thu, Apr 21, 2011 8:29:56am |
re: #547 Cannadian Club Akbar
There's a gap between the listed rate and the marginal rate - which is the rate based on all the available tax credits, deductions, exemptions, limitations, etc. that can be taken. It's all quite legal and proper.
Someone who has no investment income, takes no deductions or credits (for instance say mortgage interest or state taxes) would be paying much closer to the listed rate.
Someone making $10 million who is nominally under the 35% rate (current top tax bracket) could see an actual rate much lower than that if they take advantage of mortgage interest, capital gains, state taxes, etc. to reduce their marginal rate considerably.
| 555 |
RogueOne Thu, Apr 21, 2011 8:30:11am |
I need to get busy and mow my grass before it rains again. With gas getting as high as it is I'm considering modifying my lawn mower to get around town.//
| 557 |
Obdicut Thu, Apr 21, 2011 8:30:29am |
re: #551 RogueOne
People will take their business where they can get the best deal on taxes, productivity, and a variety of other market forces
Yep. A variety.
You cannot stop outsourcing, the best you can do is make our system as competitive as possible.
A) You can end tax breaks and benefits for outsourcing, certainly? At the very least?
B) To make our labor market to be competitive with other markets in terms solely of costs, we have to reduce our labor rights to the extent of those other countries. Do you want that?
| 558 |
Obdicut Thu, Apr 21, 2011 8:31:24am |
re: #553 Cannadian Club Akbar
He isn't paying 35%. I'm sorry, is that to hard to understand?
It's hard to understand why it's important that he pay 35%, when that's not what the law says.
I can't be much clearer. Obama wants to pay more in taxes. Somehow, you're attacking him because he currently only pays what he has to in taxes, and not more.
How does that show anything negative about Obama? How is that asking you to pay more than he does?
| 559 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Apr 21, 2011 8:31:41am |
re: #553 Cannadian Club Akbar
He isn't paying 35%. I'm sorry, is that to hard to understand?
A little bit, actually. What would he be showing by not taking the credits and deductions he's currently entitled to?
| 560 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Apr 21, 2011 8:33:28am |
George Bush wanted to lower taxes. Was he a hypocrite for not taking his tax cuts off his own taxes before they became part of the tax code?
////
| 561 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Apr 21, 2011 8:34:36am |
re: #560 SanFranciscoZionist
George Bush wanted to lower taxes. Was he a hypocrite for not taking his tax cuts off his own taxes before they became part of the tax code?
///
Glad you said it. Because I never did.
| 562 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Apr 21, 2011 8:36:11am |
re: #561 Cannadian Club Akbar
Glad you said it. Because I never did.
You can if you wish...I don't consider postings here all that exclusive.
| 563 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Apr 21, 2011 8:37:12am |
re: #562 SanFranciscoZionist
You can if you wish...I don't consider postings here all that exclusive.
I'm only here for the fame and the chicks.
/
| 564 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Thu, Apr 21, 2011 8:42:12am |
Repost comment from Thanos's great page about white supremacists boycotting the new Thor movie:
Ohhh for crying out loud, this is a COMIC BOOK movie! Don't get me wrong. I love comics. That is sort of the point. The root culture here is the comic book itself - which was the product of mid 20th century Jews actually. It has as much to do with actual Norse Mythology as The Hulk does with the real life physics of gamma rays. In high enough doses, they fry you and kill you, not make you into a giant green monster with anger management issues.
Getting upset over anyone's version of a comic book based on real life expectations is ridiculous. Getting upset because you think the movie took liberties with a favorite character or storyline, from the comic itself, is another matter. Perhaps that is geeky, but at least legitimate (the way you treated Dark Phoenix in X-men III was a crime you BASTARDS!).
On the other hand, if you are making a movie about history or actual things, it is utterly wrong and stupid to try to take "artistic license" with reality. You can rarely improve on the actual story and it is rarely possible to make what actually happened "better". Leonidas did not die that way you schmucks who made 300! His men fought to the last, piling onto his body to protect it! You really think what you did in 300 was more cool or moving? And for F-sake, the Spartans wore heavy armor into battle and fought in a phalanx! However "artistic" some might think it is, they did not wear speedos and capes into battle and they certainly did not break ranks to dance with ridiculous fantasy swords that look vaguely like falcatas! Don't even get me started on the blackmail of Mrs. Leonidas... that never happened.
The problem with the white supremacist idiots of course, is that tehy really think the Thor comic book, again ironically created by Jews, somehow reflects their own white heritage. The fact that they are so stupid they mistake that for history is part of the problem. The fact that they are so insecure about their own many failures in life that they need to imagine they are descended from comic book super heroes is the other part.
So just in case any white trash "patriots" ever read this little comment... News flash... The actual vikings for all of their accomplishments in seafaring and sword crafting were utterly brutal monsters who made their living by raping, robing, pillaging and murdering. They were extreme terrorists of their day. They were pirates. They were outcast even from their homes in Scandinavia for the most part. They were not nice people. They were not folks to be proud of. Their justice system included trial by ordeal. Their mythology was vengeful and morose. They also rarely bathed, and one of the largest finds at any Viking archeological site (that identifies it as Viking) is a very large number of lice combs. Short form... they were brutal unwashed scum who lived in mud huts and smelled like lice infested assholes and armpit.
Guess the apple didn't fall far from the tree in the case of the white supremacists.
| 565 |
Obdicut Thu, Apr 21, 2011 8:48:18am |
re: #564 LudwigVanQuixote
Heh. The Vikings were not actually all that barbarous comparative to most during the time, and Icelandic Vikings certainly bathed a lot. The Danish vikings were actually considered effete by others at the time for bathing regularly. They weren't anywhere near the level of cleanliness of Muslims or Japanese of the time, but were better than most Europeans.
In addition, the poetic eddas are some of the great works of art, and the position of women in Viking society was much higher than in most of the world. They had concepts of divorce, inheritance for women, and other such legal rights when most women in Europe were at chattal status.
Aside from that, though, good rant.
| 566 |
blueraven Thu, Apr 21, 2011 8:49:26am |
re: #559 SanFranciscoZionist
A little bit, actually. What would he be showing by not taking the credits and deductions he's currently entitled to?
He would show he is a true American and everyone would stop all this birther, socialist Kenyan nonsense!
//
| 567 |
BongCrodny Thu, Apr 21, 2011 8:52:17am |
re: #557 Obdicut
B) To make our labor market to be competitive with other markets in terms solely of costs, we have to reduce our labor rights to the extent of those other countries. Do you want that?
I guess to remain competitive we need to be more like this:
//
| 568 |
lawhawk Thu, Apr 21, 2011 8:52:28am |
re: #564 LudwigVanQuixote
And given how frequently the comics retcon events to suit updates/current situations/real world events/renewing story lines, and rebooting franchises, trying to claim that comics (or the movies that were inspired by the comics) are canon law is just plain nuts.
Except, as you say, to the geeks who dispute how the origin stories were changed after the fact or retold in a different fashion from what they were originally written as.
If you take 300 as a piece of art, it was entertaining. If you compare it to the original movie (300 Spartans), it takes plenty of liberties and artistic license over how events were portrayed and the battle proceeded.
Neither can or should be considered true history - historical fiction perhaps.
But if you want to learn the story of the 300 Spartans as Thermopylae, read the history by Herodotus or Siculus. You might not get Gerard Butler in the Herodotus version, but you get a better sense of what actually went down.
| 569 |
Sheila Broflovski Thu, Apr 21, 2011 8:53:39am |
re: #564 LudwigVanQuixote
Heh. Impressive rant. My understanding is that 300 was based on the graphic novel (that's an adult comic book) and the figures in the comic book were drawn wearing red cloaks and loincloths, so that is how the actors in the movie were costumed. Likewise the King of Persia with all his piercings. I don't think Persians of that time dressed that way at all.
| 570 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Thu, Apr 21, 2011 8:53:50am |
re: #565 Obdicut
Heh. The Vikings were not actually all that barbarous comparative to most during the time, and Icelandic Vikings certainly bathed a lot. The Danish vikings were actually considered effete by others at the time for bathing regularly. They weren't anywhere near the level of cleanliness of Muslims or Japanese of the time, but were better than most Europeans.
In addition, the poetic eddas are some of the great works of art, and the position of women in Viking society was much higher than in most of the world. They had concepts of divorce, inheritance for women, and other such legal rights when most women in Europe were at chattal status.
Aside from that, though, good rant.
Well not to get into a viking history rant... How about I accept that I painted multiple different cultures of several centuries could be construed to be painted a broad brush. To specify, when I say viking here, I mean in the original sense which meant *raider*. I am talking about the 7th , 8th and 9th centuries, with the long boats and the pillaging - the image that the word generally tends to invoke. In Scandinavia itself, the towns were fortified from them, and in Ireland and England the viking sites are noted for their abundance of lice combs. Names like Eric Bloodaxe and Elric Skullfucker are hints as to their temperament.
| 571 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Apr 21, 2011 8:55:18am |
re: #564 LudwigVanQuixote
I must defend the Vikings. While societal pressures did create a class of seafaring nasties, (no worse than Irish or continental pirates, come to that) Norse society was primarily one of farmers and merchants. Women enjoyed a relatively very high social status, and the rights of the common man were spelled out in law, and vigorously defended. They produced art, and excellent literature (the family sagas are essentially the first European novels).
And Norsemen in the Danelaw were, in fact, roundly criticized by English sources for taking baths weekly, and changing their clothes frequently--it was suspected that they did this in order to seduce virtuous English ladies.
And now I will add, to the white supremacist idiots, our mutual Norse ancestors prized valor and fair dealing. 'Being white', they never gave a second thought to, it was just what people from their part of the world looked like. So shut up and sit down, and get over your bigoted little selves.
| 572 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Thu, Apr 21, 2011 8:56:49am |
re: #568 lawhawk
I have read both. I am also very fond of Gates of Fire by Preston (which is the best researched historical fiction I've read about it).
re: #569 Alouette
It was certainly originally a comic. I generally love Frank Miller. In this case, it pissed me off immensely for the reasons given. I should have specified, that even comics ought not try to improve on history.
| 573 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Apr 21, 2011 8:57:54am |
re: #570 LudwigVanQuixote
Well not to get into a viking history rant... How about I accept that I painted multiple different cultures of several centuries could be construed to be painted a broad brush. To specify, when I say viking here, I mean in the original sense which meant *raider*. I am talking about the 7th , 8th and 9th centuries, with the long boats and the pillaging - the image that the word generally tends to invoke. In Scandinavia itself, the towns were fortified from them, and in Ireland and England the viking sites are noted for their abundance of lice combs. Names like Eric Bloodaxe and Elric Skullfucker are hints as to their temperament.
Lice combs actually indicate a group that's concerned with cleanliness, and keeping themselves as vermin-free as possible in a world that didn't encourage such.
Now, Eric Bloodaxe is one thing, and as someone once pointed out, they didn't call him that because he was good with children, but I have to tell you, I've never heard of an "Elric Skullfucker".
| 574 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Thu, Apr 21, 2011 8:59:59am |
re: #571 SanFranciscoZionist
I'm not arguing with you. Please see my response to Obdicut in 570. We can all discuss the Anglo Saxon Chronicle and Beowulf to our heart's content. I am not arguing that once settled down, barbarians can't learn to be civilized. Yes, king Knut was a lot nicer than the kings of Mercia at the time.
I am however arguing that the vikings that everyone thinks about when the word is used (axes and dragon boats and burning stuff) were most obviously nasty brutes.
| 575 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:01:35am |
re: #573 SanFranciscoZionist
Elric Skullfucker... Real guy. I heard about him in college from my Dark ages through the Carolingians history prof. Guess how he got the name...
He wanted to make a point to a priest who came out to pray for mercy about the power of god to protect the villagers.
| 576 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:01:44am |
re: #573 SanFranciscoZionist
Lice combs actually indicate a group that's concerned with cleanliness, and keeping themselves as vermin-free as possible in a world that didn't encourage such.
Now, Eric Bloodaxe is one thing, and as someone once pointed out, they didn't call him that because he was good with children, but I have to tell you, I've never heard of an "Elric Skullfucker".
And actually, my favorite Norse descriptive nickname is that of a woman called 'knarrarbringa', which means 'with a chest like the prow of a merchant ship'.
| 577 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:02:24am |
re: #575 LudwigVanQuixote
Elric Skullfucker... Real guy. I heard about him in college from my Dark ages through the Carolingians history prof. Guess how he got the name...
He wanted to make a point to a priest who came out to pray for mercy about the power of god to protect the villagers.
What a charmer.
| 578 |
Walter L. Newton Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:03:43am |
re: #577 SanFranciscoZionist
What a charmer.
I can't find any reference for Elric Skullfucker in google, not a single one.
| 579 |
Obdicut Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:05:21am |
re: #570 LudwigVanQuixote
An abundance of lice combs can be as easily interpreted as a sign of hygiene as lack of hygiene.
A lot of the history of the Vikings was told by Christianized Norse who had a very dim view of the old Pagan ways.
They certainly pillaged, they certainly sacked, especially the rich monasteries and churches. But armies sacking and pillaging was the norm; Charlemagne was doing it under the Christian flag at the same time, in a society that in some ways was even more barbarous.
They also were some of the more mathematically advanced, though no one quite understands exactly how; they were very, very good at composing distance tables, which is some heavy-ass math.
Anyway, my main point is just that the world is rife with insane barbarism up until the Enlightenment. There are few places that rise above this-- and those are often the home fronts of otherwise barbarous groups, like the Mongols, who as they despoil and destroy on the exterior, build up a strong, law-abiding kingdom within.
| 580 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:09:18am |
re: #578 Walter L. Newton
I can't find any reference for Elric Skullfucker in google, not a single one.
Really... I'm not surprised... the monument comittee keeps getting hung up over what sort of statue to make...
| 581 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:11:24am |
re: #576 SanFranciscoZionist
And actually, my favorite Norse descriptive nickname is that of a woman called 'knarrarbringa', which means 'with a chest like the prow of a merchant ship'.
My favorite Viking archeological story is about a place in the Notrth of England that was used as a viking base. It had been part of an ancient paleolithic civilization - really a carved out cave.
Several thousand years later the vikings had it and used it as a base.
One put up graffitti that reads:
I miss my woman Helga
under that reads:
So do all of us!
| 582 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:13:18am |
re: #579 Obdicut
Your point about the relative barbarism of the dark ages is well taken. I am not trying to say that the dark ages Franks were particularly nicer people. However, as we always say here... I do not see how the wrongs of one group mitigate or excuse the wrongs of another. Trying to say that raiding vikings were nice guys is a bit of a stretch for the imagination.
| 583 |
Sheila Broflovski Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:13:52am |
Has anyone read "Eaters of the Dead" by Michael Crichton? It's about a Muslim nobleman who joins a band of Vikings. Made into a movie called "The 13th Warrior."
Interesting clash of cultures.
| 584 |
Gus Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:13:58am |
Never fails. Say something critical about a corporation and the middle class corporate boot licking begins. Of course a corporation can never do anything wrong or be unethical. It's always the government. Nope, it wasn't BP's fault for the Gulf oil spill; it was the government's fault.
| 585 |
darthstar Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:14:47am |
re: #575 LudwigVanQuixote
Elric Skullfucker... Real guy. I heard about him in college from my Dark ages through the Carolingians history prof. Guess how he got the name...
He wanted to make a point to a priest who came out to pray for mercy about the power of god to protect the villagers.
Showing, not telling. See how actions can speak so much more effectively than words? He should be a role model to our children.
| 586 |
darthstar Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:16:33am |
re: #583 Alouette
Antonio Banderas was the 13th warrior, I believe. Traveled the high seas without his guitar case.
| 587 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:17:12am |
re: #582 LudwigVanQuixote
Your point about the relative barbarism of the dark ages is well taken. I am not trying to say that the dark ages Franks were particularly nicer people. However, as we always say here... I do not see how the wrongs of one group mitigate or excuse the wrongs of another. Trying to say that raiding vikings were nice guys is a bit of a stretch for the imagination.
Nice guys they were not, but they were the scum of a complex and quite admirable society--which worshipped Thor as a god of craftsmen and fertility.
I don't know the comic book at all, so I have no idea what aspects of Norse civilization it focuses on.
| 588 |
Obdicut Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:18:14am |
re: #582 LudwigVanQuixote
Nobody is saying they were nice guys. They just weren't particularly bad for the time period. And, in terms of women's rights (of their own women) they were much, much better.
I don't get the point of pride in heritage, really. I get people being interested in their heritage, but what's their to be proud about? It's an accident of genetic destiny at best, and a complete fictitious concept of race, at worst.
White supremacists are the most nonsensical, with this nebulous idea of the 'white' race.
| 589 |
Targetpractice Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:18:35am |
re: #584 Gus 802
Never fails. Say something critical about a corporation and the middle class corporate boot licking begins. Of course a corporation can never do anything wrong or be unethical. It's always the government. Nope, it wasn't BP's fault for the Gulf oil spill; it was the government's fault.
But of course, it's not BP's fault that they were gambling that their equipment and methods wouldn't fail them, it's the government's fault for letting them get away with it. You should know that by now!
//
| 590 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:19:03am |
re: #575 LudwigVanQuixote
Elric Skullfucker... Real guy. I heard about him in college from my Dark ages through the Carolingians history prof. Guess how he got the name...
He wanted to make a point to a priest who came out to pray for mercy about the power of god to protect the villagers.
I think the name sounds like something from a video game. Too modern English sounding, even for something that has been changed over time.
Also remember that even until the mid 1800's Scandinavians did not commonly use surnames. One might have added something like "The red" to distinguish from the other guy, but if Elric had a longer name it was likely Elricson, or whatever his daddy was named.
| 591 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:19:09am |
re: #583 Alouette
Has anyone read "Eaters of the Dead" by Michael Crichton? It's about a Muslim nobleman who joins a band of Vikings. Made into a movie called "The 13th Warrior."
Interesting clash of cultures.
Based on the actual writings of Ibn Fadlan, who travelled among the Rus in the 10th century.
No Neanderthals were involved, however, in Ibn Fadlan's account.
Now he, unlike the English, thought the Norse were filthy. It's all relative.
The movie was a hoot. Antonio Banderas was very hot.
| 592 |
Gus Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:19:37am |
re: #589 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
But of course, it's not BP's fault that they were gambling that their equipment and methods wouldn't fail them, it's the government's fault for letting them get away with it. You should know that by now!
//
Yep. And of course it was the government's fault! We were following government rules and regulations! Plus, it was the government that let us drill at this location in the first place!
| 594 |
lawhawk Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:20:40am |
re: #586 darthstar
Or Selma Hayek. But especially the guitar case. /
| 595 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:20:47am |
re: #588 Obdicut
Nobody is saying they were nice guys. They just weren't particularly bad for the time period. And, in terms of women's rights (of their own women) they were much, much better.
A Norse man who wanted to get married was expected to build a house or have one built, and give the keys to his bride. If they divorced, she kept the house. Not a bad custom.
| 596 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:21:41am |
| 597 |
Targetpractice Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:21:43am |
re: #592 Gus 802
Yep. And of course it was the government's fault! We were following government rules and regulations! Plus, it was the government that let us drill at this location in the first place!
So what if we were using faulty equipment or hiring guys who didn't know what they were doing? You want cheap oil right? Well, sacrifices have to be made!
//
| 598 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:22:54am |
re: #593 Jimmah
Vikings had a fluffy side to them:
[Video]
Dude... I am shocked and disappointed at the lack of reference to spam in that post! How are you mate?
| 599 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:25:24am |
re: #590 Naso Tang
Actually surnames not so much. Epithets absolutely. They loved titles like Bloodaxe or "the Terrible" or "Face Crusher..."
My personal theory was that they did all that stuff and took those names because of this one wide eyed really scary wiry guy in the long boat named Sven. JUST SVEN. They were all intimidated and very concerned they were not bad enough to hag with him.
| 600 |
Gus Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:26:20am |
re: #597 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
So what if we were using faulty equipment or hiring guys who didn't know what they were doing? You want cheap oil right? Well, sacrifices have to be made!
//
Hey! It was a Patriotic-Elevanty! flagged vessel flying the Murican flag!
//Which of course it wasn't since the weasels will register their vessels in foreign countries to avoid taxes, fees, licensing, etc., etc.
| 601 |
Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:27:11am |
re: #426 RogueOne
you missed the preceding sentence that laid out my opposition:
It should be illegal for my states representatives to take off and hide because they don't like the way things are going.
May I point out that, like filibusters and Secret holds are written into the US Senate rules, quorum votes are written into the State Senate rules. You can argue if leaving the state is an underhanded nature of avoiding a quorum, but to argue that it should be illegal to use a legitimate rule to block certain legislation strikes me as very short sighted and will lead to long term consequences when the Republicans are in the minority and searching for some way to slowdown some crazy Democrat legislation.
If the quorum rules were the same for all legislation, then you'd have more of a case to argue that the intent wasn't for a minority to slow down and block certain legislation, but since the only thing that was being blocked was specifically budget items, it means that other legislation and activity were able to occur without impediment. So it's not like the wheels of state government had ground to a complete halt.
| 602 |
darthstar Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:27:21am |
re: #599 LudwigVanQuixote
Actually surnames not so much. Epithets absolutely. They loved titles like Bloodaxe or "the Terrible" or "Face Crusher..."
Not to be confused with the Jones Crusher...
| 603 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:27:54am |
re: #599 LudwigVanQuixote
Actually surnames not so much. Epithets absolutely. They loved titles like Bloodaxe or "the Terrible" or "Face Crusher..."
My personal theory was that they did all that stuff and took those names because of this one wide eyed really scary wiry guy in the long boat named Sven. JUST SVEN. They were all intimidated and very concerned they were not bad enough to hag with him.
Anyone here a fan of "Erik the Viking"? Truly insane movie. If you haven't seen it, all you need to know is that Eartha Kitt plays a Viking prophetess called Freya.
| 604 |
Lidane Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:28:40am |
Creeping Sharia! OMG!
| 605 |
darthstar Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:29:10am |
re: #603 SanFranciscoZionist
Anyone here a fan of "Erik the Viking"? Truly insane movie. If you haven't seen it, all you need to know is that Eartha Kitt plays a Viking prophetess called Freya.
That's a fun movie...Tim Robbins, no?
| 606 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:29:16am |
re: #603 SanFranciscoZionist
Anyone here a fan of "Erik the Viking"? Truly insane movie. If you haven't seen it, all you need to know is that Eartha Kitt plays a Viking prophetess called Freya.
LOVE that movie and pretty much all Python related things.
| 607 |
Gus Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:29:26am |
| 608 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:30:05am |
re: #604 Lidane
Creeping Sharia! OMG!
Well there is one for the Supreme court to knock down on first amendment grounds. People have every right to go to the binding arbitration of their choice.
| 609 |
Targetpractice Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:30:15am |
| 610 |
treasured people Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:30:29am |
Sarah Palin wears a magen David / star of David. You can see it here at 1:25 of this interview. I know people will find content of interview objectionable but I have never seen a political figure wear such an obvious sign of identification with the Jewish people.
| 611 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:31:04am |
re: #603 SanFranciscoZionist
Anyone here a fan of "Erik the Viking"? Truly insane movie. If you haven't seen it, all you need to know is that Eartha Kitt plays a Viking prophetess called Freya.
I also once described this movie as beginning with 'the funniest rape scene in cinematic history'. I described it this way in front of a women's studies major of my acquaintance, who was horrified. I made her watch the movie. She conceded my point, with the coda that that should be 'attempted rape scene'.
| 612 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:31:15am |
re: #603 SanFranciscoZionist
Anyone here a fan of "Erik the Viking"? Truly insane movie. If you haven't seen it, all you need to know is that Eartha Kitt plays a Viking prophetess called Freya.
Ohhh and it is a great responsibility to be a berserker.
| 613 |
Sheila Broflovski Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:31:37am |
re: #604 Lidane
Creeping Sharia! OMG!
Dearborn mayor declares: "We are totally not ruled by Sharia."
| 614 |
Obdicut Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:31:55am |
re: #610 treasured people
Yeah, that's pretty terrible. The last thing Jews need is being associated with that ignorant huckster, especially after her shameful attempt to claim that she was being attacked with a 'blood libel'.
| 616 |
HappyWarrior Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:32:43am |
re: #604 Lidane
Creeping Sharia! OMG!
Shariah is slang for economy, right? :)
Seriously, these people are buttheads. "Creeping Shariah law" is nothing but right wing slang for we need to scare our base with anti-Muslim bigotry. They know Shariah isn't going to happen but their base is a different story.
| 617 |
Aye Pod Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:32:56am |
re: #598 LudwigVanQuixote
Dude... I am shocked and disappointed at the lack of reference to spam in that post! How are you mate?
Cheers, Ludwig. Just finished dinner - some nice jumbalaya.
Also enjoying my new keyboard and the return of the ability to type the letter 'c' while posting. Wheeee!
| 618 |
Lidane Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:33:35am |
| 619 |
Targetpractice Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:33:37am |
| 620 |
HappyWarrior Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:34:03am |
re: #613 Alouette
Dearborn mayor declares: "We are totally not ruled by Sharia."
It's sad that Mayor O'Reilly has to say this. I don't blame him. I do blame the political climate.
| 621 |
Jimmi the Grey Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:35:35am |
| 622 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:37:43am |
re: #610 treasured people
Sarah Palin wears a magen David / star of David. You can see it here at 1:25 of this interview. I know people will find content of interview objectionable but I have never seen a political figure wear such an obvious sign of identification with the Jewish people.
Oh dear G-d please no. Please G-d no. We need her substantially less than we need Madonna and her "kaballah center" stuff. With that, I am going to get some work done and sulk.
Ohhh and Obdi. There is nothing wrong with being proud of one's cultural heritage - provided you are proud of the civilized things your people did and not the bad stuff. Most cultures have many things to be proud of. Most have many things to be ashamed of.
Frankly the idea of adding Palin to the list (real or imagined) that people don't like Jews for is distressing.
| 623 |
Romantic Heretic Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:37:58am |
re: #572 LudwigVanQuixote
I have read both. I am also very fond of Gates of Fire by Preston (which is the best researched historical fiction I've read about it).
re: #569 Alouette
It was certainly originally a comic. I generally love Frank Miller. In this case, it pissed me off immensely for the reasons given. I should have specified, that even comics ought not try to improve on history.
What made me roll my eyes the most was the Spartans being all up about "freedom!"
It was a fucking military dictatorship and the Spartan soldiers made their chops as kids by selling out 'dissidents' to the people in charge.
I laughed through the movie. It was that or cry.
| 624 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:39:12am |
re: #588 Obdicut
Nobody is saying they were nice guys. They just weren't particularly bad for the time period. And, in terms of women's rights (of their own women) they were much, much better.
I don't get the point of pride in heritage, really. I get people being interested in their heritage, but what's their to be proud about? It's an accident of genetic destiny at best, and a complete fictitious concept of race, at worst.
White supremacists are the most nonsensical, with this nebulous idea of the 'white' race.
The question at hand is whether your heritage makes you better than someone else, whether the fact that your ancestors had blonde hair and someone else's had black hair makes a difference.
(If your ancestor is Eric Bloodaxe and the other guys's ancestor studied under Socrates, you might want to rethink that.)
| 625 |
Aye Pod Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:40:53am |
re: #610 treasured people
Sarah Palin wears a magen David / star of David. You can see it here at 1:25 of this interview. I know people will find content of interview objectionable but I have never seen a political figure wear such an obvious sign of identification with the Jewish people.
She's a piece of shit - using her Jewishness in an attempt to add weight to her extremist views about muslims.
| 626 |
Obdicut Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:41:22am |
re: #622 LudwigVanQuixote
Being proud of cultural heritage, if you're truly participating in that same culture, makes some more sense. But there's no connection between, say, the Norse vikings and some random dude in the Midwest getting lightning bolts tattooed on him. The US inherited very little from Norse civilization.
It's all very odd to me. Pride seems the wrong emotion to feel; inspiration or a calling to perform would seem more appropriate.
| 627 |
boredtechindenver Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:41:26am |
re: #573 SanFranciscoZionist
Now, Eric Bloodaxe is one thing, and as someone once pointed out, they didn't call him that because he was good with children, but I have to tell you, I've never heard of an "Elric Skullfucker".
Upding for use of the term "Skullfucker". You would have won teh Intertubes for the second straight day if you could have worked kittens into the sentence.
| 628 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:42:45am |
re: #591 SanFranciscoZionist
Based on the actual writings of Ibn Fadlan, who travelled among the Rus in the 10th century.
No Neanderthals were involved, however, in Ibn Fadlan's account.
Now he, unlike the English, thought the Norse were filthy. It's all relative.
The movie was a hoot. Antonio Banderas was very hot.
I saw that, although the details are fuzzy.
| 629 |
The Left Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:43:48am |
re: #600 Gus 802
//Which of course it wasn't since the weasels will register their vessels in foreign countries to avoid taxes, fees, licensing, etc., etc.
Not this weasel. I don't have any vessels.
Yet.//
Howdy, folks.
| 630 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:44:02am |
re: #595 SanFranciscoZionist
A Norse man who wanted to get married was expected to build a house or have one built, and give the keys to his bride. If they divorced, she kept the house. Not a bad custom.
The keys? You think they carried key chains like bikers? :=)
| 631 |
Gus Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:45:35am |
re: #629 iceweasel
Not this weasel. I don't have any vessels.
Yet.//
Howdy, folks.
That was not directed at ice weasels. ;)
//
| 632 |
Aye Pod Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:45:39am |
re: #625 Jimmah
She's a piece of shit - using her Jewishness in an attempt to add weight to her extremist views about muslims.
Oops! For some reason I thought this story concerned Pamela Geller.
| 633 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:46:06am |
re: #625 Jimmah
She's a piece of shit - using her Jewishness in an attempt to add weight to her extremist views about muslims.
Ummm Jimmah... Sarah Palin is about as Jewish as a ham sandwich on white bread with butter.
Sarah Palin is about as Jewish as Mel Gibson.
Or David Duke.
Or Mike Huckabee.
In fact, the worst cycle of far right, lowbrow fundies is when they start claiming to be the "real Jews." Then they take that chosen people thing to have a totally different meaning. It also historically, is quickly followed by trying to destroy the original Jews.
| 634 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:46:52am |
re: #623 Romantic Heretic
What made me roll my eyes the most was the Spartans being all up about "freedom!"
It was a fucking military dictatorship and the Spartan soldiers made their chops as kids by selling out 'dissidents' to the people in charge.
I laughed through the movie. It was that or cry.
Name a culture of the time that couldn't be described largely in those terms.
| 635 |
HappyWarrior Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:47:44am |
I think Palin's desperate to appear Jewish friendly even though many analysts argue that her presence really hurt McCain among Jewish voters. I don't know. This is me exaggerating here but she kind of reminds me of how Peter on Family Guy reacted when he found out Lois was Jewish. I mean there's respecting the Jewish people and then there's just baseless pandering which is what I see this as.
| 636 |
Targetpractice Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:48:11am |
re: #629 iceweasel
Not this weasel. I don't have any vessels.
Yet.//
Howdy, folks.
What about wessels? Especially nuclear wessels?
//
| 638 |
Obdicut Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:49:35am |
re: #634 Naso Tang
The Athenians were not a military dictatorship. They had slaves, and it was far from imperfect, but not a dictatorship.
The Tang dynasty was also not a military dictatorship.
| 639 |
Aye Pod Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:49:55am |
re: #636 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
What about wessels? Especially nuclear wessels?
//
Automatic Star Trek IV upding.
| 640 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:50:39am |
re: #613 Alouette
Dearborn mayor declares: "We are totally not ruled by Sharia."
In an open letter Wednesday to Pastor Terry Jones, Dearborn Mayor Jack O'Reilly Jr. blasted claims that his city is under Islamic law, noting it has three strip clubs and a factory that makes pork products sitting across the street from a mosque.
| 641 |
The Left Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:51:03am |
re: #636 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
What about wessels? Especially nuclear wessels?
//
I'll ask the Scottish engineer about our warp core./
| 643 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:52:32am |
re: #640 SanFranciscoZionist
In an open letter Wednesday to Pastor Terry Jones, Dearborn Mayor Jack O'Reilly Jr. blasted claims that his city is under Islamic law, noting it has three strip clubs and a factory that makes pork products sitting across the street from a mosque.
You know it's getting crazy when having strip clubs is referenced out loud as a positive.
| 644 |
HappyWarrior Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:53:27am |
If these Shariah bans start impacting my local Middle Eastern restaurants, I am going to jihad on someone's ass. Being silly obviously but if you haven't had Middle Eastern cuisine, it is awesome. Great meat, bread, rice, etc. The people there know how to eat.
| 645 |
Aye Pod Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:53:28am |
re: #640 SanFranciscoZionist
In an open letter Wednesday to Pastor Terry Jones, Dearborn Mayor Jack O'Reilly Jr. blasted claims that his city is under Islamic law, noting it has three strip clubs and a factory that makes pork products sitting across the street from a mosque.
The atmosphere of strict Islamic observance is clearly stifling. It's the same everywhere. /
| 646 |
Gus Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:54:03am |
re: #642 iceweasel
How goes it, Comrade?
Meh. SNAFU. Was supposed to pick up a check but the dork forgot so now I have to wait until later to get it. Got some rain overnight though which is nice. Nice and cool and the ground and plants are wet! The birds were singing during my walk to the store earlier. There's other stuff but I don't want to say much here -- you know why. How's things by you and Jimmah?
| 647 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:54:17am |
re: #599 LudwigVanQuixote
Actually surnames not so much. Epithets absolutely. They loved titles like Bloodaxe or "the Terrible" or "Face Crusher..."
My personal theory was that they did all that stuff and took those names because of this one wide eyed really scary wiry guy in the long boat named Sven. JUST SVEN. They were all intimidated and very concerned they were not bad enough to hag with him.
Possibly so, but still "skullfucker" has no ring of reality to it. Maybe the term had the word "skull" in it (Skal or Skalle or similar), fucker has no obvious meaning other than modern English and it might just as well have been something to do with having a hard, or knobbly, or ugly skull.
| 648 |
HappyWarrior Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:54:44am |
I am sure there are some really dumb dolts out there who probably believe Shariah includes allowing gays to marry. Not a majority but I would bet if you interviewed anti-Shariah advocates, you'd find at least one that believed that.
| 649 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:55:49am |
re: #623 Romantic Heretic
What made me roll my eyes the most was the Spartans being all up about "freedom!"
It was a fucking military dictatorship and the Spartan soldiers made their chops as kids by selling out 'dissidents' to the people in charge.
I laughed through the movie. It was that or cry.
Yeah. Sparta is probably not the best model of an incipient Western democracy, she said with great understatement.
I've never seen a good, nuanced portrayal of Spartan society in fiction or film, actually. The part that truly annoyed me about 300 is whatisbucket's attempt to neutralize Gorgo by accusing her of adultery. Spartans were not that keyed up about marital fidelity, and there's some evidence that wife-swapping in the interest of maximizing childbearing was considered socially acceptable. The worst an accusation of sleeping around would have got you was 'well, tell her husband when he gets home and see what he thinks about it'.
That said, I wouldn't have minded, except it got seized on by so many people who saw it as some sort of metaphor for the present day Clash of Cultures (TM).
| 650 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:56:17am |
re: #625 Jimmah
She's a piece of shit - using her Jewishness in an attempt to add weight to her extremist views about muslims.
Sarah's not Jewish.
| 651 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:56:17am |
re: #638 Obdicut
The Athenians were not a military dictatorship. They had slaves, and it was far from imperfect, but not a dictatorship.
The Tang dynasty was also not a military dictatorship.
I'm not going to quibble about details. I think it would be just as accurate to say that some dictatorships were more benevolent (democratic) than others by today's definitions.
| 652 |
The Left Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:56:23am |
re: #646 Gus 802
Meh. SNAFU. Was supposed to pick up a check but the dork forgot so now I have to wait until later to get it. Got some rain overnight though which is nice. Nice and cool and the ground and plants are wet! The birds were singing during my walk to the store earlier. There's other stuff but I don't want to say much here -- you know why. How's things by you and Jimmah?
Sorry about the check-- that sucks. I emailed you. :)
Jimmah was off today so we were off running errands and stuff (like getting him a working keyboard). Naturally there's more, email away.
It rained here too, a little this morning and then stopped. It was beautiful and very spring. If it will only last til Saturday we're going to have a picnic.
| 653 |
Targetpractice Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:57:13am |
| 654 |
HappyWarrior Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:58:23am |
Wasn't there a story that Palin apparently supported Buchanan at one time? That alone makes me wary of her as an individual.
| 655 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:58:53am |
re: #644 HappyWarrior
If these Shariah bans start impacting my local Middle Eastern restaurants, I am going to jihad on someone's ass. Being silly obviously but if you haven't had Middle Eastern cuisine, it is awesome. Great meat, bread, rice, etc. The people there know how to eat.
Our favorite food, although to be accurate any good Middle Eastern food should really be called Lebanese food.
| 656 |
Gus Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:58:58am |
re: #652 iceweasel
Sorry about the check-- that sucks. I emailed you. :)
Jimmah was off today so we were off running errands and stuff (like getting him a working keyboard). Naturally there's more, email away.
It rained here too, a little this morning and then stopped. It was beautiful and very spring. If it will only last til Saturday we're going to have a picnic.
Read it. Did you like mine? I was kind of pissed. Well, more like annoyed and didn't want to go through that same circular tool like logic again if you know what I mean.
Hey. You know how it goes. If you're going to have a picnic expect a lot of rain and wind. ;)
| 657 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:59:30am |
re: #626 Obdicut
Being proud of cultural heritage, if you're truly participating in that same culture, makes some more sense. But there's no connection between, say, the Norse vikings and some random dude in the Midwest getting lightning bolts tattooed on him. The US inherited very little from Norse civilization.
It's all very odd to me. Pride seems the wrong emotion to feel; inspiration or a calling to perform would seem more appropriate.
I don't know if I would say we got nothing. The English legal system, which is terribly important to American development, is descended from Germanic tribal law, which the Norse certainly had a branch of. The emphasis on individual rights we have comes from those cultures.
And lutefisk. We got lutefisk.
But yes, some schmuck who thinks he's a Viking is just some schmuck.
I have friends who are Asatru, and they find the white supremacist fascination with the Norse gods both appalling and problematic. I've had people say they worry about tattoos with runes or a Thor's hammer being mistaken for white supremacist statements, rather than understood as religious symbols.
| 658 |
The Left Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:00:11am |
re: #656 Gus 802
Read it. Did you like mine? I was kind of pissed. Well, more like annoyed and didn't want to go through that same circular tool like logic again if you know what I mean.
Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. Blah blah blah let's all go galt.
| 660 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:01:40am |
re: #647 Naso Tang
Possibly so, but still "skullfucker" has no ring of reality to it. Maybe the term had the word "skull" in it (Skal or Skalle or similar), fucker has no obvious meaning other than modern English and it might just as well have been something to do with having a hard, or knobbly, or ugly skull.
OK...
Let's imagine that almost 20 years ago, you took a college course from a prof you really liked who gave you a lot of insight into history that you have found valuable through the years. Suppose also that this class on Dark Ages history through the Carolinians was also his area of research.
He told that story in class. Perhaps he translated the name from the original dialect.
In otherwords, I trust the prof.
| 661 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:02:31am |
re: #630 Naso Tang
The keys? You think they carried key chains like bikers? :=)
:)
Women hung them off their dress pins, with jewelry. Keys were often ornamented. (So, Ludwig, they could have worn them to shul if the Norse had become Jews instead of Christians.)
| 662 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:02:44am |
re: #632 Jimmah
Oops! For some reason I thought this story concerned Pamela Geller.
That makes more sense.
| 663 |
HappyWarrior Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:02:55am |
re: #657 SanFranciscoZionist
I don't know if I would say we got nothing. The English legal system, which is terribly important to American development, is descended from Germanic tribal law, which the Norse certainly had a branch of. The emphasis on individual rights we have comes from those cultures.
And lutefisk. We got lutefisk.
But yes, some schmuck who thinks he's a Viking is just some schmuck.
I have friends who are Asatru, and they find the white supremacist fascination with the Norse gods both appalling and problematic. I've had people say they worry about tattoos with runes or a Thor's hammer being mistaken for white supremacist statements, rather than understood as religious symbols.
I myself decided against getting a Celtic cross as a tattoo when I found out the white supremacists had adapted it. There was also a Slavic symbol I was looking at for my other arm and I found out it too has been co-opted by the Neo-Nazis. Still looking for another Slavic symbol for my left upper mar to have in symmetry with my Irish themed one on my right that ended up having a harp as a center piece and I love it since it's cool looking and not cliche as hell like a shamrock.
| 665 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:03:20am |
re: #657 SanFranciscoZionist
I don't know if I would say we got nothing. The English legal system, which is terribly important to American development, is descended from Germanic tribal law, which the Norse certainly had a branch of. The emphasis on individual rights we have comes from those cultures.
And lutefisk. We got lutefisk.
What we got was a large percentage of the immigrants, particularly, up in the north who brought a strong social and work ethic with them that still remains.
Although the way they have voted past years in Minnesota, I'm not sure if it may not have faded; at least the "above average" part as Garrison would say.
| 666 |
Obdicut Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:04:21am |
re: #651 Naso Tang
I'm not going to quibble about details.
There's nothing to quibble about. There are examples of other governments at the time that were not military dictatorships. That's what you asked for.
I think it would be just as accurate to say that some dictatorships were more benevolent (democratic) than others by today's definitions.
Well, you'd be wrong. Athens was a democracy with severely limited voting rights. That is not in any way like a dictatorship.
Most places were monarchies with some sort of legal framework, which is vastly different than a dictatorship. The monarch did not have dictatorial power. The Byzantine empire had a complex political system, and wasn't a dictatorship at any time period.
| 668 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:05:38am |
re: #660 LudwigVanQuixote
PIMF
OK...
Suppose also that this class on Dark Ages history through the Carolingians was also his area of research.
| 669 |
Obdicut Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:05:49am |
re: #657 SanFranciscoZionist
I'm separating out the Vikings from the general Saxon settler/invaders of England. The Saxons were well-established in Britain before the viking era began.
| 670 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:06:58am |
re: #660 LudwigVanQuixote
OK...
Let's imagine that almost 20 years ago, you took a college course from a prof you really liked who gave you a lot of insight into history that you have found valuable through the years. Suppose also that this class on Dark Ages history through the Carolinians was also his area of research.
He told that story in class. Perhaps he translated the name from the original dialect.
In otherwords, I trust the prof.
Heh. I'm sure any legitimate use of the word fucker in class would get attention, but you say "translated" and "dialect" and I wonder if anyone knows what crude words the Vikings used for intercourse at the time.
Still, if you can contact him, ask.
| 672 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:08:17am |
re: #664 iceweasel
Ice... what exactly are you trying to accomplish by posting a commie video that glorifies Castro and paints the Palestinians as an oppressed proletariat?
Not even close to cool.
| 673 |
HappyWarrior Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:09:15am |
It's the Vikings they say that gave the Irish their stereotypically red hair. I think I actually somewhere saw a map of Ireland with hair color by region/county. The areas that were not affected heavily by the Vikings and later Normans/English had darker hair. My great great grandparents' home county of Galway is notorious for having a ton of people with darker hair and blue eyes, and fair skin. Gee, no wonder why I fit in there so well. Plus they live by the ocean.
| 675 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:09:20am |
re: #635 HappyWarrior
I think Palin's desperate to appear Jewish friendly even though many analysts argue that her presence really hurt McCain among Jewish voters. I don't know. This is me exaggerating here but she kind of reminds me of how Peter on Family Guy reacted when he found out Lois was Jewish. I mean there's respecting the Jewish people and then there's just baseless pandering which is what I see this as.
I have mixed feelings about the whole thing.
I realize that many American Christians have intense feelings about Israel, and they are entitled to them, even if I don't necessarily 'get' it. And if I can live with Hollywood stars running around wearing bendels, I guess I can live with Sarah Palin wearing a magen david.
I don't see this as pandering TO JEWS though, I see it, if pandering it is, as being aimed toward her own people. There's an element of appropriation to it that I don't care for. Palin's shown precious little interest in Jews, Judaism, or American Jewish communities. Or in Israel for that matter. Her whole angle seems to be "Oh, I support Israel THIS much," which is easy to say.
Our last three presidents put on kippot as appropriate--don't know if George Bush Sr. did--and that's fine.
I don't know. I live in downtown central for cultural appropriation. Maybe I'm over-sensitive to this.
| 676 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:09:41am |
re: #663 HappyWarrior
I myself decided against getting a Celtic cross as a tattoo when I found out the white supremacists had adapted it. There was also a Slavic symbol I was looking at for my other arm and I found out it too has been co-opted by the Neo-Nazis. Still looking for another Slavic symbol for my left upper mar to have in symmetry with my Irish themed one on my right that ended up having a harp as a center piece and I love it since it's cool looking and not cliche as hell like a shamrock.
Dude, if you are Irish, there are a bazillion cool things you could get.
| 677 |
The Left Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:10:12am |
re: #672 LudwigVanQuixote
Ice... what exactly are you trying to accomplish by posting a commie video that glorifies Castro and paints the Palestinians as an oppressed proletariat?
Not even close to cool.
I just wanted to post Billy Bragg's version and hadn't vetted that one for video content. Damn you, Youtube! and my own laziness.
| 678 |
Gus Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:10:44am |
re: #674 Jimmah
Heh. Here's some more, for the class of 2004:
[Video]
Funny! You know that's a freak magnet of course. But hey. Being on LGF right now we're all freak magnets. ;) Later!
| 679 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:12:03am |
re: #661 SanFranciscoZionist
:)
Women hung them off their dress pins, with jewelry. Keys were often ornamented. (So, Ludwig, they could have worn them to shul if the Norse had become Jews instead of Christians.)
Yes, perhaps, but I bet that you would find a key used only among the wealthy for perhaps a chest in a house. I doubt a keyed door was something most people would ever have seen, or bothered with.
| 680 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:12:46am |
re: #655 Naso Tang
Our favorite food, although to be accurate any good Middle Eastern food should really be called Lebanese food.
What about Moroccan food?
| 681 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:12:50am |
re: #677 iceweasel
I just wanted to post Billy Bragg's version and hadn't vetted that one for video content. Damn you, Youtube! and my own laziness.
Fair enough.
| 682 |
Gus Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:13:43am |
re: #677 iceweasel
I just wanted to post Billy Bragg's version and hadn't vetted that one for video content. Damn you, Youtube! and my own laziness.
Now you've done it! Got your name on the Blacklist™ along with teh BBC and teh New York Times!
//
| 683 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:14:31am |
re: #665 Naso Tang
What we got was a large percentage of the immigrants, particularly, up in the north who brought a strong social and work ethic with them that still remains.
Although the way they have voted past years in Minnesota, I'm not sure if it may not have faded; at least the "above average" part as Garrison would say.
Minnesotans do seem to have a fascination with oddball candidates. Left and right. It's rather interesting.
| 684 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:15:10am |
re: #669 Obdicut
I'm separating out the Vikings from the general Saxon settler/invaders of England. The Saxons were well-established in Britain before the viking era began.
True, but there was substantial Norse cultural influence from the Danelaw period.
| 685 |
The Left Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:16:00am |
re: #681 LudwigVanQuixote
Fair enough.
I should have gone with one of the live performances but they're kinda shitty, the ones I've seen.
That's a real problem with using Youtube lazily like I just did. You have no idea what kind of video content is spliced in unless you watch it first, and you can make an ass of yourself or wholly contradict your meaning, or post something horrible.
Anyway, I like to yank the chains of those who think Gus and jimmah and I are communists.
(Jimmah's got a vid coming up that you'll like better!)
Happy Passover!
| 686 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:16:08am |
re: #680 SanFranciscoZionist
What about Moroccan food?
Fair enough. Probably one should say Mediterranean to be accurate. I suppose I say Lebanese because they have been the most cosmopolitan, and exported more chefs in my experience.
| 687 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:16:51am |
re: #675 SanFranciscoZionist
I have mixed feelings about the whole thing.
I realize that many American Christians have intense feelings about Israel, and they are entitled to them, even if I don't necessarily 'get' it. And if I can live with Hollywood stars running around wearing bendels, I guess I can live with Sarah Palin wearing a magen david.
I don't see this as pandering TO JEWS though, I see it, if pandering it is, as being aimed toward her own people. There's an element of appropriation to it that I don't care for. Palin's shown precious little interest in Jews, Judaism, or American Jewish communities. Or in Israel for that matter. Her whole angle seems to be "Oh, I support Israel THIS much," which is easy to say.
Our last three presidents put on kippot as appropriate--don't know if George Bush Sr. did--and that's fine.
I don't know. I live in downtown central for cultural appropriation. Maybe I'm over-sensitive to this.
I don't like appropriating other people's cultures. I don't like seeing my own appropriated.
It is particularly an issue with certain lowbrow fundamentalist Christian types. There is always this undercurrent of them being the "real" children of Israel to contend with and that theme is never good for us.
On a lighter note. I don't care for non Irish folks painting themselves green on St. Patrick's day (I think it's rude to Irish folks even if most Irish folks I know could care less) any more than I care for McBagles with sausage.
I see that sort of trivialization of cultures as degrading.
| 688 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:17:26am |
re: #669 Obdicut
I'm separating out the Vikings from the general Saxon settler/invaders of England. The Saxons were well-established in Britain before the viking era began.
On my one visit to England I was visiting a museum in York that included data on the Viking settlements there. The docent mentioned that the Viking culture was still fairly vibrant there until the "Harrying of the North" by William the Conquerer.
When I commented "so it was essentially Viking descendents destroying the culture of other Viking descendents" I got a strange sort of glare from her. Probably not the sort of connection she expected to be pointed out.
| 689 |
Gus Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:17:37am |
re: #685 iceweasel
I should have gone with one of the live performances but they're kinda shitty, the ones I've seen.
That's a real problem with using Youtube lazily like I just did. You have no idea what kind of video content is spliced in unless you watch it first, and you can make an ass of yourself or wholly contradict your meaning, or post something horrible.
Anyway, I like to yank the chains of those who think Gus and jimmah and I are communists.
(Jimmah's got a vid coming up that you'll like better!)
Happy Passover!
I am not a Communist! I'm a Trotskyite!
//
| 690 |
The Left Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:17:39am |
re: #682 Gus 802
Now you've done it! Got your name on the Blacklist™ along with teh BBC and teh New York Times!
//
You're there too, right? So I'm in good company. /
| 691 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:17:44am |
re: #685 iceweasel
I should have gone with one of the live performances but they're kinda shitty, the ones I've seen.
That's a real problem with using Youtube lazily like I just did. You have no idea what kind of video content is spliced in unless you watch it first, and you can make an ass of yourself or wholly contradict your meaning, or post something horrible.
Anyway, I like to yank the chains of those who think Gus and jimmah and I are communists.
(Jimmah's got a vid coming up that you'll like better!)
Happy Passover!
It's all good it really is.
As to yanking the chains of certain web cretins... well... I am always down for that.
| 693 |
Gus Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:19:55am |
re: #690 iceweasel
You're there too, right? So I'm in good company. /
Yep. Why just the other day I linked to HuffPo!
Actually I'm a devout follower of Gussism.
//
| 694 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:35:11am |
re: #661 SanFranciscoZionist
:)
Women hung them off their dress pins, with jewelry. Keys were often ornamented. (So, Ludwig, they could have worn them to shul if the Norse had become Jews instead of Christians.)
Big Smile.
| 695 |
HappyWarrior Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:39:44am |
re: #676 LudwigVanQuixote
Dude, if you are Irish, there are a bazillion cool things you could get.
I already have the Irish one. It's a harp on my right arm. It's the Slavic thing that's troubling me.
| 696 |
HappyWarrior Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:45:39am |
re: #687 LudwigVanQuixote
I don't like appropriating other people's cultures. I don't like seeing my own appropriated.
It is particularly an issue with certain lowbrow fundamentalist Christian types. There is always this undercurrent of them being the "real" children of Israel to contend with and that theme is never good for us.
On a lighter note. I don't care for non Irish folks painting themselves green on St. Patrick's day (I think it's rude to Irish folks even if most Irish folks I know could care less) any more than I care for McBagles with sausage.
I see that sort of trivialization of cultures as degrading.
It honestly frustrates me more when people act like green beer or cheesy Irish t-shirts are what it means to celebrate Irish culture. It's about enjoying good music, whiskey,beer, and having fun when push comes to shove. I made a real effort to learn Gaelic while I was there. I of course am piss poor with foreign language but I tried.
| 697 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:47:53am |
re: #695 HappyWarrior
I already have the Irish one. It's a harp on my right arm. It's the Slavic thing that's troubling me.
I really don't know jack about Slavic imagery or images. I do know a little about Irish history and art from my various history classes (and I have always thought Irish were cool). I'm just saying from your symmetry arguments, I'm sure you could find a bunch of cool things that aren't shamrocks. Knotwork dragons come to mind.
| 698 |
HappyWarrior Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:50:55am |
re: #697 LudwigVanQuixote
I really don't know jack about Slavic imagery or images. I do know a little about Irish history and art from my various history classes (and I have always thought Irish were cool). I'm just saying from your symmetry arguments, I'm sure you could find a bunch of cool things that aren't shamrocks. Knotwork dragons come to mind.
Yeah I took an IRish history course while I was there. The professor was from Belfast and a Catholic at that and had experienced The Troubles first hand. I want the Slavic one in symmetry since I'm Eastern European on my mom's side. The Irish is my paternal lineage. What I most identify with since I think my temperment and personality come most from that side.
| 699 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:52:31am |
re: #696 HappyWarrior
It honestly frustrates me more when people act like green beer or cheesy Irish t-shirts are what it means to celebrate Irish culture. It's about enjoying good music, whiskey,beer, and having fun when push comes to shove. I made a real effort to learn Gaelic while I was there. I of course am piss poor with foreign language but I tried.
I can't tell you how much I relate to that. I really can't stand Jewish people who think that dropping one of the four Yiddish words they know or quoting Fiddler on the Roof makes them knowledgeable about or honestly connected to the history, culture or traditions of the people.
It is a lot more than eating toridal bread for breakfast and saying oy!
As to the Irish part of what you are talking about... I have always had a serious thing for redheaded beauties with perfect pitch singing like some sort of magical princess in a bell clear soprano.
| 700 |
HappyWarrior Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:58:50am |
re: #699 LudwigVanQuixote
I can't tell you how much I relate to that. I really can't stand Jewish people who think that dropping one of the four Yiddish words they know or quoting Fiddler on the Roof makes them knowledgeable about or honestly connected to the history, culture or traditions of the people.
It is a lot more than eating toridal bread for breakfast and saying oy!
As to the Irish part of what you are talking about... I have always had a serious thing for redheaded beauties with perfect pitch singing like some sort of magical princess in a bell clear soprano.
I am biased being a history major but I think if people don't understand history, they're fucked in the worst sense of the word. I've made a huge effort to learn about the history of where my ancestors came from so I could see what made the US so appealing to them and I'm also interested in what they did when they got here.
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