Western Delegates Walk Out on Ahmadinejad Again

Kabuki
World • Views: 26,251

It’s hardly even news any more that Iranian leader Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is a crazed Holocaust-denying lunatic, and today he provoked the now-traditional walk-out by Western delegates at his speech to the UN General Assembly.

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has provoked his share of walk outs at the U.N. In 2009, European delegates stormed out of a U.N. conference on racism when Ahmadinejad called Israel the “most cruel and racist regime.” The next year, at the U.N. General Assembly in New York, the U.S. delegation and other diplomats headed for the exits when the Iranian leader suggested the U.S. was behind the 9/11 attacks. Well, he’s done it again, using much of the same inflammatory language that he’s used before. Several outlets are reporting that the U.S. and several European delegations have walked out of Ahmadinejad’s U.N. General Assembly address this morning.

According to The Guardian, which is live-blogging Ahmadinejad’s speech, asked how the “flower of democracy” could blossom from from “NATO’s missiles, guns or bombs.” He also reportedly declared that “arrogant powers” threaten sanctions and military action against anyone who questions the Holocaust or 9/11 (which he called “mysterious”) and lashed out at the U.S. for waging wars, sparking the financial crisis, and killing Osama bin Laden “to hide the truth about 9/11” (he thinks bin Laden should have been put on trial).

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241 comments
1 Iwouldprefernotto  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:11:50am

I know conservatives don't get this, but the more we let this man speak the more he looks like a complete idiot. (yes, i'm talking to you Bolton).

2 Targetpractice  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:12:23am

Wonder how Alex Jones feels about having the President of Iran as a frequent listener?

3 sattv4u2  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:12:50am

I'm less concerned about the Western delegates that walked out than I am about any others that stayed and applauded

4 sattv4u2  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:13:56am

re: #1 Iwouldprefernotto

I know conservatives don't get this, but the more we let this man speak the more he looks like a complete idiot. (yes, i'm talking to you Bolton).

Doesn't matter
See #3

"we" (the Western delegates) know he's a "complete idiot"

5 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:15:27am

The dinnerjacket and Kim Jong Il both seem to belong to the "notice ME! notice ME!" school of silly repressive dictators who are none the less scary and evil.

6 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:16:17am

AHMADINEJAD ASKED FEW QUESTION UNO SEPT 22, 2011 PART2

Mysterious 9-11 incidents used as pretext to launch wars

7 Kragar  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:17:07am

Doesn't matter, its Obama's fault for not something something before something blah blah.

8 sattv4u2  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:19:26am

re: #2 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Wonder how Alex Jones feels about having the President of Iran as a frequent listener?

From the speech re: 9/11

Is there any classified information that must be kept secret?

9 laZardo  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:19:32am

I wouldn't have been surprised if the "new" Libyan delegates stayed.

On a slightly less negative note, everyone has the right to speak, but not the right to a reaction they want.

10 sattv4u2  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:21:33am

The world is now witnessing more than ever, the widespread awakening in
Islamic lands, in Asia, Europe, and America. These movements are ever
expanding their spirit everyday and influence the pursuit of the realization of
justice, freedom and the creation of a better tomorrow.
Our great nation stands ready to join hands with other nations to march on this
beautiful path in harmony and in line with the shared aspirations of mankind.
Let us salute love, freedom, justice, wisdom, and the bright future that awaits
humankind.

11 AK-47%  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:22:11am

Talk the talk, walk the walk...

12 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:22:35am

The "flower of democracy" ... Iranian style

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

13 Ming  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:25:24am

It's almost slightly refreshing to read about someone who is really crazy (Ahmadinejad) and realize it's not an article about a Republican.

14 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:25:51am

re: #13 Ming

It's almost slightly refreshing to read about someone who is really crazy (Ahmadinejad) and realize it's not an article about a Republican.

Or a Democrat.

15 Kragar  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:27:13am

re: #13 Ming

It's almost slightly refreshing to read about someone who is really crazy (Ahmadinejad) and realize it's not an article about a Republican.

All he needs to do is convert and he's so in there.

16 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:27:51am

re: #14 NJDhockeyfan

Or a Democrat.

I was just going to search the lefty sites t see if they're still going to praise Ahmadinejad now that a Dem is in the whitehouse but since you guys are in a nonpartisan mood today I'll skip it.

17 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:27:54am

re: #13 Ming

It's almost slightly refreshing to read about someone who is really crazy (Ahmadinejad) and realize it's not an article about a Republican.

Ahmadinejad has a lot in common with today's Republican Party. He's enthusiastically pro-death penalty, virulently anti-gay, and wants to make sure women are kept under control.

18 sattv4u2  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:31:03am

re: #17 Charles

Ahmadinejad has a lot in common with today's Republican Party. He's enthusiastically pro-death penalty, virulently anti-gay, and wants to make sure women are kept under control.

He's a hybrid

He also rails against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan as well blames Zionists/ the state of Israel for all the worlds ills
An equal opportunity cross between wingnut/ moonbat

19 sattv4u2  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:32:16am

re: #16 Killgore Trout

I was just going to search the lefty sites t see if they're still going to praise Ahmadinejad now that a Dem is in the whitehouse but since you guys are in a nonpartisan mood today I'll skip it.

You're a better man than I, Gunga Din

20 AK-47%  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:32:20am

re: #17 Charles


It again reminds us that the "Clash of Cultures" is not between Christianity and Islam, it is between Enlightenment and Fundamentalism, in whatever forms they manifest themselves.

21 Decatur Deb  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:32:45am

I don't buy the 'crazy' meme for Dinnerjacket, 'Gdayfi, Muggerbe or any of these rulers of unstable tyrannies. To travel in their circles, and keep your throat, requires a deep feel for local reality and considerable cleverness.

22 researchok  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:33:30am

re: #17 Charles

Ahmadinejad has a lot in common with today's Republican Party. He's enthusiastically pro-death penalty, virulently anti-gay, and wants to make sure women are kept under control.

That notion isn't as way out there as it once might have been. Not all- not even most- of the GOP is as fringe as Ahmadenijad, but enough are.

Which is pretty incredible.

23 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:34:18am
Western Delegates Walk Out on Ahmadinejad Again

Good.

24 jamesfirecat  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:35:11am

re: #18 sattv4u2

He's a hybrid

He also rails against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan as well blames Zionists/ the state of Israel for all the worlds ills
An equal opportunity cross between wingnut/ moonbat

Plenty of Republicans rail against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan as well for isolationist reasons. On the other hand according to wikipedia in Iran "Growing cannabis is legal if planted for food purposes as the seeds are eaten by the Iranian people, and companies often draw oil from the seeds which is sold legally. A person is allowed to carry up to 15g of cannabis legally" though they get charged if they have more than that....

25 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:35:26am

I think ahmadinejad and jimmy carter have a few things in common as well.

26 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:36:07am

re: #14 NJDhockeyfan

Or a Democrat.

Or an MBF.

27 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:36:14am

The owner of Scrapbookpages site (which, for some reason, is the darling of Wikipedia and many other sites dealing with the Holocaust, despite covert but all-too-transparent "revisionism" on numerous pages) has granted us some more nuggets of her wisdom:

[Link: furtherglory.wordpress.com...]

I don’t recall what time it was on 9/11 when Rick Leventhal said that there were 3,000 Jews who worked for an Israeli company on one of the top floors of one of the towers, but it was before both towers had collapsed, so it was around 7 a.m. California time. Leventhal reported that there was no way that the 3,000 Jews could be saved because they were on a floor above where the plane had hit.

I immediately thought: “Oh boy, we’ll never hear the end of this tragedy. The death of 3,000 Jews will be the focus of the 9/11 story for years to come. There will probably be a Museum set up for them or maybe a room added to the Holocaust Museum in Washington, DC.

I was glued to the TV set, watching Rick Leventhal all day, but he never mentioned the fate of the 3,000 Jews. I assumed that Leventhal was too overcome by emotion at the thought of 3,000 Jews being burned alive or jumping to their deaths. The next day, I learned that the 3,000 Jews did not go to work that day.

Inexplicably, she ends her 9/11 tribute with this:

Sixty-six years after the end of World War II, Germany is still occupied by American troops in order to preserve our Freedom.

28 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:36:36am

re: #16 Killgore Trout

I was just going to search the lefty sites t see if they're still going to praise Ahmadinejad now that a Dem is in the whitehouse but since you guys are in a nonpartisan mood today I'll skip it.

I say, go for it. Why not.

29 Achilles Tang  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:37:29am

Did he start the speech with the usual hope for the end times?

30 Kragar  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:37:46am

re: #27 Sergey Romanov

The owner of Scrapbookpages site (which, for some reason, is the darling of Wikipedia and many other sites dealing with the Holocaust, despite covert but all-too-transparent "revisionism" on numerous pages) has granted us some more nuggets of her wisdom:

[Link: furtherglory.wordpress.com...]

Inexplicably, she ends her 9/11 tribute with this:

Ignorant twit is ignorant.

31 sattv4u2  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:38:36am

re: #29 Naso Tang

Did he start the speech with the usual hope for the end times?

Here's the full text of the speech.
(pdf)

[Link: gadebate.un.org...]

32 Kragar  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:38:43am

re: #29 Naso Tang

Did he start the speech with the usual hope for the end times?

Rick Perry held another prayer rally?
/

33 sattv4u2  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:39:33am

re: #32 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Rick Perry held another prayer rally?
/

Nope

It's not raining!

34 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:40:56am

looks like a tea party...
[Link: www.daylife.com...]

35 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:41:35am

re: #17 Charles

Ahmadinejad has a lot in common with today's Republican Party. He's enthusiastically pro-death penalty, virulently anti-gay, and wants to make sure women are kept under control.

Don't forget fanatically religious, oppressive of dissent and hawkish.

36 sattv4u2  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:42:53am

Ah well

Making Chinese Beef and Broccoli tonight
Have to go slice up and marinate the meat,, than maybe take the pooches to the park


Dear DinnerJacket

Choke on something

Love

Me

37 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:43:08am

re: #27 Sergey Romanov

I knew Jewish people who were killed there that day. This is one of the more sick and persistent lies that keeps getting repeated.

38 researchok  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:43:58am
39 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:44:28am

re: #38 researchok

Turkey's Erdogan on UN TV, live.

Is he fuming?

40 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:45:29am

re: #37 LudwigVanQuixote

I knew Jewish people who were killed there that day. This is one of the more sick and persistent lies that keeps getting repeated.

My son's former college roommate lost his father in the WTC attack ... And yes, he was Jewish.

41 researchok  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:45:58am

re: #39 Sergey Romanov

Is he fuming?

He's building up to that.

He's criticizing The UN and 'certain nations'

42 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:46:40am

re: #27 Sergey Romanov

The owner of Scrapbookpages site (which, for some reason, is the darling of Wikipedia and many other sites dealing with the Holocaust, despite covert but all-too-transparent "revisionism" on numerous pages) has granted us some more nuggets of her wisdom:

I don’t recall what time it was on 9/11 when Rick Leventhal said that there were 3,000 Jews who worked for an Israeli company on one of the top floors of one of the towers, but it was before both towers had collapsed, so it was around 7 a.m. California time. Leventhal reported that there was no way that the 3,000 Jews could be saved because they were on a floor above where the plane had hit.

[Link: furtherglory.wordpress.com...]

Inexplicably, she ends her 9/11 tribute with this:

How could 3,000 people fit on one floor? That has to be one mighty huge floor!

43 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:46:57am

re: #1 Iwouldprefernotto

I know conservatives don't get this, but the more we let this man speak the more he looks like a complete idiot. (yes, i'm talking to you Bolton).

I'm aware that he's a complete idiot. I'm more curious about what message is being sent by sending him out into the world to be a complete idiot.

Dinnerjacket is the puppet. He doesn't pull the strings.

44 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:47:13am

re: #40 _RememberTonyC

My son's former college roommate lost his father in the WTC attack ... And yes, he was Jewish.

Avremel Zelmanowitz, Danny Levin, Shimon Biegeleisen.

45 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:47:32am

re: #42 Alouette

[Link: furtherglory.wordpress.com...]

Inexplicably, she ends her 9/11 tribute with this:

How could 3,000 people fit on one floor? That has to be one mighty huge floor!

I can't explain that, but that sure doesn't make it science :)

46 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:48:05am

re: #42 Alouette

[Link: furtherglory.wordpress.com...]

Inexplicably, she ends her 9/11 tribute with this:

How could 3,000 people fit on one floor? That has to be one mighty huge floor!

Or a lot of very small people working on it

47 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:51:34am

re: #44 Alouette

Avremel Zelmanowitz, Danny Levin, Shimon Biegeleisen.

Andrew Friedman ... [Link: articles.nydailynews.com...]

48 lawhawk  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:51:50am

Ahmadinejad didn't disappoint in bringing the crazy, but it's nothing we haven't heard or seen before.

1) trooferism? Check.
2) anti-Israel, anti-US and anti-Semitic propaganda? Check.
3) Projection on to other countries and regimes, what Iran has done to its own dissidents, opposition groups, and innocent bystanders (the American hikers held for years based on bogus claims of being spies, doctors held on espionage charges despite doing nothing more than spreading AIDS prevention awareness).

And you've got regimes that lap this kind of nonsense up.

49 researchok  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:54:41am

Erdogan- 'UN silent on Israel'

No mention of Turkish stand on Kurds, Armenians or Cyprus.

51 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:58:16am

re: #18 sattv4u2

He's a hybrid

He also rails against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan as well blames Zionists/ the state of Israel for all the worlds ills
An equal opportunity cross between wingnut/ moonbat

American politics don't apply. It's Iran. Iran is its own thing.

52 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:59:02am

re: #48 lawhawk

Totally OT, but I just read in your tweets sidebar that Meg Whitman may be named HP CEO. I'm kind of glad for her, but dang, the woman has got nerve.

53 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:59:59am

re: #50 lawhawk

Oh, and the 9/11 and Israel connection appears to go back to Iran's proxies in Hizbullah, who used Al Manar to spread the propaganda that 4,000 Israelis didn't show up to work at the WTC on 9/11.

And the Troofers bought that hook, line, and sinker.

54 laZardo  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:01:45pm

re: #48 lawhawk

Takes a murderer to know a murderer.

//mostly

55 AK-47%  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:02:43pm

Henry Ford liked to claim that although the Bolsheviks destroyed thousands of Churches in Russia, they did not destroy any synagogues...

Do not even know if that claim is substantiated, other than to point out that Jews were in no way a part of the Tsarist autocratic power structure like the Orthodox Church was.

56 lawhawk  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:03:55pm

re: #49 researchok

The UN is many things, but silent on Israel?

A reading of daily briefings and reports and resolutions would make one think that the UN is all about Israel to the exclusion of everything else in the world. And that includes Turkey's horrific treatment of Kurds, Armenians, etc.

57 albusteve  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:04:34pm

this little barbarian....it's damned fortunate for him that his sworn enemies are more civilized than he is....it would be so easy...what a waste of air

58 researchok  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:05:52pm

re: #56 lawhawk

The UN is many things, but silent on Israel?

A reading of daily briefings and reports and resolutions would make one think that the UN is all about Israel to the exclusion of everything else in the world. And that includes Turkey's horrific treatment of Kurds, Armenians, etc.

I'm listening to Erdogan as he speaks.

This guy is a textbook example of real cognitive dissonance.

Really.

59 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:06:39pm

re: #58 researchok

I'm listening to Erdogan as he speaks.

This guy is a textbook example of real cognitive dissonance.

Really.

Turkey is having a weird time of it. Identity crisis.

60 researchok  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:07:07pm

re: #59 SanFranciscoZionist

Turkey is having a weird time of it. Identity crisis.

Big time.

61 albusteve  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:07:30pm

re: #59 SanFranciscoZionist

Turkey is having a weird time of it. Identity crisis.

therefore unpredictable

62 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:07:45pm

This makes me happy....

Nashua Republican "Steak Out"- Andrew BreitBart & James O'Keefe Part 1

Sep 19, 2011

Breitbart's first appearance since his civil war fantasy. He's constantly falling all over himself making it clear that he's fighting a journalistic/cultural war. Skip to 8:15 for the funniest one I've found so far. It nice to know we're in his head.

63 researchok  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:09:14pm

Now he's Cyprus.

No mention of Turkish invasion It's all the Greek's fault.

64 Dadaist  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:09:33pm

It's not precisely true to call Ahmadinejad a dictator, not because of any elections but because he isn't the most powerful person in the Iranian regime. The Iranian President is very much subordinate to the religious authorities.

65 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:10:32pm

re: #55 ralphieboy

Henry Ford liked to claim that although the Bolsheviks destroyed thousands of Churches in Russia, they did not destroy any synagogues...

Do not even know if that claim is substantiated, other than to point out that Jews were in no way a part of the Tsarist autocratic power structure like the Orthodox Church was.

Excellent point. I don't get all the cries from the Orthodox here to return the Church's property to it (which, unfortunately, is being done). The Church was the part of the state. It acquired this property on the taxpayers' dime. AFAIC, the state (the new state, that is) was in its right to do whatever it wanted with that property (though I don't condone many things that were done, indeed).

And yes, Bolsheviks, and later Communists, were suppressing all religions.

66 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:10:55pm

re: #64 Dadaist

Exactly.

67 Buck  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:12:41pm

re: #17 Charles

Ahmadinejad has a lot in common with today's Republican Party. He's enthusiastically pro-death penalty, virulently anti-gay, and wants to make sure women are kept under control.

Strange how he has fans on the left... Sean Penn, Chavez, Code Pink....

68 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:14:19pm

re: #67 Buck

And fans on the right too... David Duke (R- La) Stormfront etc...

69 jamesfirecat  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:14:19pm

re: #67 Buck

Strange how he has fans on the left... Sean Penn, Chavez, Code Pink...

Why do you say that Chavez is "on the left" when several times before you've put forward in your own belief's Buck that at a certain point the extremes of either side loop around and meet in an indistinct middle?

70 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:14:39pm

re: #67 Buck

Wow, what a star-studded assembly of prominent leftists that is.

71 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:14:54pm

re: #67 Buck

Strange how he has fans on the left... Sean Penn, Chavez, Code Pink...

Matt Drudge and Fox Nation link to Alex Jones all the time. It's so frequent that I don't even bother pointing it out anymore.

72 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:15:01pm

re: #69 jamesfirecat

Why do you say that Chavez is "on the left" when several times before you've put forward in your own belief's Buck that at a certain point the extremes of either side loop around and meet in an indistinct middle?

Shhh... he only uses that to make execrable rightists into execrable leftists...

73 lawhawk  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:15:06pm

re: #64 Dadaist

Whether you can truly call Ahmadinejad subordinate to the mullahs or whether he's elevated the position to an equal isn't a trivial question or point within the theocracy. Ahmadinejad has sought to expand his power and authority, and one can argue that the suppression of the Iranian opposition (led by Mirhussien Mousavi) was meant to increase his power (and by and through the Basij and IRGC). There might be a split among the mullahs themselves, giving him the ability to exploit the differences to his own end.

But he is the official spokesman for the Iranian regime, which makes his statements all the more dangerous for those he singles out.

Yet, anyone seeking election has to first pass muster with the mullahs, which make them gatekeepers. Ahmadinejad may have become the barbarian within the gates, much to the woe of mullahs and the Iranian people at large.

74 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:15:45pm

In other news, I had something in my hand, I have not left this room, and now I can't find where the hell I put it.

I hate that.

75 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:16:07pm

re: #65 Sergey Romanov

And yes, Bolsheviks, and later Communists, were suppressing all religions.

Yet Conservatives and RWNJs in general were and are quick to point out how many Jews supposedly were among the Bolsheviks. The big lie of Jewish Bolshevism

76 Gus  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:16:18pm

re: #62 Killgore Trout

This makes me happy...

Nashua Republican "Steak Out"- Andrew BreitBart & James O'Keefe Part 1

[Video]Sep 19, 2011

Breitbart's first appearance since his civil war fantasy. He's constantly falling all over himself making it clear that he's fighting a journalistic/cultural war. Skip to 8:15 for the funniest one I've found so far. It nice to know we're in his head.

The new face of the Republican Party. Andrew Breitbart and James O'Keefe. Part of the anti-intellectual agenda obviously. Well, at least Andrew got out of underwear for this speaking engagement.

77 Buck  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:16:50pm

re: #69 jamesfirecat

Why do you say that Chavez is "on the left" when several times before you've put forward in your own belief's Buck that at a certain point the extremes of either side loop around and meet in an indistinct middle?

Yes, that really is my point. All of the kooks on the far right and far left share many characteristics. If you only list the ones on one side, and ignore the ones on the other, you give an unbalanced view.

78 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:17:20pm

re: #70 Obdicut

Wow, what a star-studded assembly of prominent leftists that is.

Folks in that category reflexively support any nation that the U.S. is at odds with, Iran the more so, since there's been a threat hanging in the air for years that we might make a military move against them.

ANSWER will openly defend the regime, but even with them, it's based more on the belief that the United States and Friends are worse than anything else. It's the same crap we used to see with the Soviets.

79 BongCrodny  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:17:53pm

re: #77 Buck

If you only list the ones on one side, and ignore the ones on the other, you give an unbalanced view.

Like you did in your #67.

80 Decatur Deb  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:18:22pm

re: #74 Obdicut

In other news, I had something in my hand, I have not left this room, and now I can't find where the hell I put it.

I hate that.

It was your glasses. You're looking through them.

81 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:18:31pm

re: #73 lawhawk

Whether you can truly call Ahmadinejad subordinate to the mullahs or whether he's elevated the position to an equal isn't a trivial question or point within the theocracy. Ahmadinejad has sought to expand his power and authority, and one can argue that the suppression of the Iranian opposition (led by Mirhussien Mousavi) was meant to increase his power (and by and through the Basij and IRGC). There might be a split among the mullahs themselves, giving him the ability to exploit the differences to his own end.

But he is the official spokesman for the Iranian regime, which makes his statements all the more dangerous for those he singles out.

Yet, anyone seeking election has to first pass muster with the mullahs, which make them gatekeepers. Ahmadinejad may have become the barbarian within the gates, much to the woe of mullahs and the Iranian people at large.

They could surely have taken him out at the last elections, and chose not to. He still doesn't have much personal power. If he's in the UN babbling about 'mysterious events', it's because the real leadership of Iran likes his work.

82 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:18:31pm

re: #77 Buck

an unbalanced view.

This is really funny.

83 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:18:49pm

re: #55 ralphieboy

Semyon Reznik, in his debunking of Solzhenitsyn's antisemitic trash, describes some of the events (Google transl., sorry):

[Link: www.vestnik.com...]

In 1921, the eve of the Jewish religious holiday of Rosh Hashanah (Jewish New Year) in the Kiev city court heard the case of the Jewish religion.

The first reading gave a very strong woman. When asked about why she gave her children a header - a Jewish religious school, but not in public school, she replied that she comes from a respectable family of rabbis and moelov8, not from some sort of cobblers, and therefore will not give their children communists.

Then came gustoborody rabbi - with Pace, in traditional dress and traditional headdress. He was asked the question - why it poisons the young religious fables and ravings chauvinistic?

- I do it deliberately to keep the masses in ignorance and in obedience to the bourgeoisie - minted rabbi.

- What is said in your Talmud?

- It is said: the best of the Goyim kill.

As a wave of indignation room, someone shouts: "You ignorant and slanderer!" Wrangler immediately withdrawn from the hall, his name and fate are unknown.

84 laZardo  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:19:00pm

Gonna go out for a bit. BBL

85 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:19:16pm

re: #78 SanFranciscoZionist

Folks in that category reflexively support any nation that the U.S. is at odds with, Iran the more so, since there's been a threat hanging in the air for years that we might make a military move against them.

ANSWER will openly defend the regime, but even with them, it's based more on the belief that the United States and Friends are worse than anything else. It's the same crap we used to see with the Soviets.

Anti-imperialism continues to be the Left's biggest folly: It never runs out of evil empires to praise that are in opposition to the contemporarily dominating empire.

86 jamesfirecat  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:19:27pm

re: #77 Buck

Yes, that really is my point. All of the kooks on the far right and far left share many characteristics. If you only list the ones on one side, and ignore the ones on the other, you give an unbalanced view.

Charles was simply making a comparison between policies if you want to refute it please list what beliefs Ahmadinejad has in common with the modern Democratic Party, I'll even spot you the fact that Marijuana can be legally grown for self consumption in Iran...

87 Gus  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:19:27pm

On topic though my guess would be that half of Iran would also like to walk out on Ahmadinejad.

88 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:19:40pm

re: #83 Sergey Romanov

Cont:

n the indictment, "prosecutor" Judaism demanded to sentence to death. "The Court" went to the meeting and returned with the required "verdict."

Sources do not report how the anticipated carry out the sentence - execution, by hanging or drowning the barge with the rabbis and Melamed (that the KGB used against the captives white hostages and a counter). But in practice, we used an older method - quartered. The Jewish religion has been subjected to a slow killing by dismembering her body alive.

In Vitebsk "public trial" of religious schools (heder) was started even earlier. He was appointed on January 8, 1921, at seven o'clock in the evening at the cinema "Record", but at the appointed time in front of a cinema were more than five thousand Jews threatened to smash it into splinters, if not shameful act will be repealed. "The Court" has been postponed, as poor. But a few weeks yet taken place. Heather has been sentenced to liquidation. The authorities were quick to consolidate the victory, and came to the confiscation of the synagogue.


About half the population of Vitebsk was Jewish, and in the city there were 77 synagogues. Under the pretext that most of them empty, but for secular schools do not have enough space, local authorities offered the Jewish community to voluntarily give up a few synagogues, but "understanding" of such a proposal was not. Then the Communists began to break into the synagogue and the Torah scrolls retire, prayer, ritual accessories. Devastated thus tried to close the synagogue, but again ran into resistance spontaneously gathered crowd. Red Army detachment caused by the haste was greeted with a hail of stones and clods of dirt. Only sent for reinforcements cavalry squadron was able to disperse the crowd. Part of the synagogue was closed, and then turned into clubs, warehouses, one was open, "Communist University."

89 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:20:01pm

re: #88 Sergey Romanov

Cont.:

The campaign to close the synagogue swept through towns and villages, and nearly everywhere the faithful resisted and in some places achieved temporary success. Party Jewish newspaper "Der Emes" ["true"] called this campaign "the military operation: a grand attack on the camp of the ancient enemy, a sort of Jewish national movement of the proletariat against the Jewish bourgeoisie." (All the communist regime of lawlessness created on behalf of the proletariat!)

Conducted a campaign against religious holiday on Saturday against the rest, against the enforcement of the rules of kosher cooking, baking matzo against Easter. Arranged processions, plays, anti-religious holidays, in all engage young people, played a leading role Komsomol. The war on religion "in the Jewish street" was one of the most important tasks and evkomov evsektsy created after the October Revolution - first in the Center, and then on the ground.

90 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:20:17pm

re: #75 000G

Yet Conservatives and RWNJs in general were and are quick to point out how many Jews supposedly were among the Bolsheviks. The big lie of Jewish Bolshevism

The Yevsektsiya was formed to suppress the Jewish religion ("We're not Jews, we're good Communists!"). But eventually the Soviets got around to them too.

91 laZardo  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:20:41pm

re: #87 Gus 802

On topic though my guess would be that half of Iran would also like to walk out on Ahmadinejad.

On the other hand I suspect I'm not the only one that thinks Ahmadinejad did get the majority vote (as it were), mainly from the rural base and not the violently-suppressed urbanites.

92 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:20:47pm

A synagogue sacked by Bolsheviks:

Image: reznik_razgrom_sinagogi.jpg

A synagogue turned into a workers' club:

Image: reznik_sinagoga_klub.jpg

93 CuriousLurker  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:21:23pm

re: #74 Obdicut

In other news, I had something in my hand, I have not left this room, and now I can't find where the hell I put it.

I hate that.

Jinn. ;o)
//

94 jamesfirecat  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:21:35pm

re: #85 000G

Anti-imperialism continues to be the Left's biggest folly: It never runs out of evil empires to praise that are in opposition to the contemporarily dominating empire.

Sounds more like a problem with hypocrisy than with anti-imperialism in and of itself.

95 wrenchwench  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:22:18pm

re: #80 Decatur Deb

It was your glasses. You're looking through them.

Mr. w was once talking on the phone to a friend who couldn't find her phone. I never get tired of that one.

"OK, hang up, and call me back when you find it."

96 Someone Please Beam Me Up!  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:22:28pm

re: #55 ralphieboy

Henry Ford liked to claim that although the Bolsheviks destroyed thousands of Churches in Russia, they did not destroy any synagogues...

Do not even know if that claim is substantiated, other than to point out that Jews were in no way a part of the Tsarist autocratic power structure like the Orthodox Church was.

I don't know if they were destroyed, but they were certainly seized and converted to other uses. Which was what often happened to churches too. Some of the most prominent were destroyed (Lenin felt the need to issue directives about "destroying the Russian cultural heritage" at some time or another.)

Henry Ford would probably complain that the Bolsheviks also put a stop to a favorite pastime for the Russian empire -- killing Jews. For a while, anyway.

97 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:23:10pm

re: #86 jamesfirecat

Charles was simply making a comparison between policies if you want to refute it please list what beliefs Ahmadinejad has in common with the modern Democratic Party, I'll even spot you the fact that Marijuana can be legally grown for self consumption in Iran...

Or liberals, in general. A platform for Buck to scratch his pet itch - this ought to be good. Let's start taking bets on how many seconds it will take for him to say the word "Obama".

98 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:23:40pm

re: #92 Sergey Romanov

A synagogue sacked by Bolsheviks:

Image: reznik_razgrom_sinagogi.jpg

A synagogue turned into a workers' club:

Image: reznik_sinagoga_klub.jpg

The Soviets looted a Hasidic rebbe's library, and the Russian government today claims that it is their own treasure.

99 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:25:08pm

re: #90 Alouette

The Yevsektsiya was formed to suppress the Jewish religion ("We're not Jews, we're good Communists!"). But eventually the Soviets got around to them too.

And so it went with the Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee, too... Same with support for Israel... all just empty gestures. Stalin never really changed. IIRC, up until his death he planned to deport all Jews in the Soviet Union to some remote region. Doctors' plot and all that.

100 engineer cat  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:25:53pm

re: #67 Buck

Strange how he has fans on the left... Sean Penn, Chavez, Code Pink...

yes, your are correct - considering how ahmadinejad's policies are anti women's rights and pro government imposing a conservative version of a state religion, it is indeed strange that any american who is not a far right religious conservative would consider him their ally

101 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:26:13pm

re: #99 000G

Doctors' plot and all that.

Doctor's Plot was some nasty shyt.

102 Decatur Deb  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:26:18pm

re: #98 Alouette

The Soviets looted a Hasidic rebbe's library, and the Russian government today claims that it is their own treasure.

Soviet treatment of synagogues must have been moot, in the west, by 1944.

103 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:26:43pm

re: #89 Sergey Romanov

There were many reasons my family left Russia. It is hard for me not to hate Russia.

104 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:27:10pm

re: #99 000G

And so it went with the Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee, too... Same with support for Israel... all just empty gestures. Stalin never really changed. IIRC, up until his death he planned to deport all Jews in the Soviet Union to some remote region. Doctors' plot and all that.

There's actually no credible evidence that any such thing was planned, it's based on rumors and such.

105 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:27:34pm

re: #94 jamesfirecat

Sounds more like a problem with hypocrisy than with anti-imperialism in and of itself.

Anti-imperialism is ultimatively flawed. It's no real answer to today's world and problems. It's like a left-wing version of anarcho-primitivism.

Realizing that there are evil powers cannot be answered by renouncing the most powerful powers.

106 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:27:49pm

re: #91 laZardo

On the other hand I suspect I'm not the only one that thinks Ahmadinejad did get the majority vote (as it were), mainly from the rural base and not the violently-suppressed urbanites.

Word is that he's popular in the rural areas, yes. I'm not sure about the vote--I actually think Mousavi might have taken it--but I'm not a big Iran expert. I know what I read in the papers.

107 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:27:49pm

re: #100 engineer dog

yes, your are correct - considering how ahmadinejad's policies are anti women's rights and pro government imposing a conservative version of a state religion, it is indeed strange that any american who is not a far right religious conservative would consider him their ally

I don't see how Iran's antigay policies are any different from the AFA's or FRC's. Or Sally Kern's (R Dumb Confederate).

108 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:30:37pm

re: #107 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I don't see how Iran's antigay policies are any different from the AFA's or FRC's. Or Sally Kern's (R Dumb Confederate).

In Iran, the AFA is running the country. I just hope Ahmedinejad doesn't get a hate on for bears. (I don't believe they have grizzlies, but smaller bears will probably do.)

109 engineer cat  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:30:38pm

msnbc headline

Second recession might be worse than first

Fresh evidence of a global economic slowdown raises fears that governments may be powerless to reverse it.

urk

110 Kragar  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:30:56pm

re: #107 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I don't see how Iran's antigay policies are any different from the AFA's or FRC's. Or Sally Kern's (R Dumb Confederate).

They haven't hung anyone in public with official government support.

Yet.

111 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:31:12pm

Green Party leaders applaud the Pope as he surprise-visits the German Parliament.

The faces are priceless!

Image: image-263931-breitwandaufmacher-bfav.jpg

112 Kragar  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:32:04pm

re: #108 SanFranciscoZionist

In Iran, the AFA is running the country. I just hope Ahmedinejad doesn't get a hate on for bears. (I don't believe they have grizzlies, but smaller bears will probably do.)

They have Brown Bears.

113 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:32:21pm

re: #104 Sergey Romanov

There's actually no credible evidence that any such thing was planned, it's based on rumors and such.

Plausible rumors or implausible rumors? Stalin had a long history of deporting ethnicities he saw as hostile. He also had a long history of furthering anti-semitism.

114 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:33:08pm

re: #111 000G

Green Party leaders applaud the Pope as he surprise-visits the German Parliament.

The faces are priceless!

Image: image-263931-breitwandaufmacher-bfav.jpg

Jazz-hands Pope!!

(I don't think I'll ever get used to Benedict. I still miss JPII.)

115 Kragar  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:33:23pm

re: #111 000G

Green Party leaders applaud the Pope as he surprise-visits the German Parliament.

The faces are priceless!

Image: image-263931-breitwandaufmacher-bfav.jpg

"Nothing in my hands, nothing up my sleeves.... now whats that behind your ear?"

116 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:33:45pm

re: #110 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

They haven't hung anyone in public with official government support.

Yet.

But watch them shriek "creeping shariah they're coming for your sons" in a millisecond, the moment anyone outside their clutches crosses their path.

Same old Christian confederates, different millennium.

117 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:34:32pm

re: #91 laZardo

Hey, laZardo, "show email".

118 jamesfirecat  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:34:58pm

re: #105 000G

Anti-imperialism is ultimatively flawed. It's no real answer to today's world and problems. It's like a left-wing version of anarcho-primitivism.

Realizing that there are evil powers cannot be answered by renouncing the most powerful powers.

I think the two of us have different definitions of "Anti-imperialism" to me it has more to do with renouncing non democratic forms of government than objecting to the fact that we haven't cut Puerto Rico loose or made it its own state...

119 Kragar  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:36:17pm

re: #116 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

But watch them shriek "creeping shariah they're coming for your sons" in a millisecond, the moment anyone outside their clutches crosses their path.

Same old Christian confederates, different millennium.

Bryan Fischer: If we do not stop Islam at our shores, we will have to stop it in our streets

The best thing we can do is to halt the infiltration of Islam into America.

On my program this week, retired Gen. Jerry Boykin, one of the original Delta Force members, said clearly that we must secure our borders to deal with the threat posed by Muslim immigration and we must stop the building of mosques. He believes that Islam has no First Amendment protections because it is not a religion so much as a totalitarian ideology that is utterly hostile to Western values.

If we do not stop Islam at our shores, we will have to stop it in our streets. That day, in fact, is already here. Let’s stop the contagion while we can.

120 researchok  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:36:40pm

re: #109 engineer dog

msnbc headline

Second recession might be worse than first

Fresh evidence of a global economic slowdown raises fears that governments may be powerless to reverse it.

urk

The good news is no one really knows what the hell is going on re the economy.

121 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:37:06pm

re: #118 jamesfirecat

I think the two of us have different definitions of "Anti-imperialism" to me it has more to do with renouncing non democratic forms of government than objecting to the fact that we haven't cut Puerto Rico loose or made it its own state...

Do you mean making Puerto Rico a part of our states?

122 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:37:30pm

Oh, afternoon honcos.

123 jamesfirecat  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:38:04pm

re: #121 Cannadian Club Akbar

Do you mean making Puerto Rico a part of our states?

Yeah "its own state" in the sense of "Alaska is its own state", sorry didn't think through the multiple definitions of the term "state" before I posted it.

124 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:38:41pm

re: #119 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Bryan Fischer: If we do not stop Islam at our shores, we will have to stop it in our streets

This is who pRick "I'm sooo in love with Israel" Perry is kissing up to.

They ought to get a room.

125 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:39:14pm

re: #123 jamesfirecat

Yeah "its own state" in the sense of "Alaska is its own state", sorry didn't think through the multiple definitions of the term "state" before I posted it.

Look up HR2499. (I'm pretty sure) Also, for it to happen the people there would have to vote on it first, IIRC.

126 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:39:53pm

re: #118 jamesfirecat

I think the two of us have different definitions of "Anti-imperialism" to me it has more to do with renouncing non democratic forms of government than objecting to the fact that we haven't cut Puerto Rico loose or made it its own state...

But anti-imperialism AFAIK does not have a strong record on being a tradition that is primarily concerned with democracy. It was rather about furthering left-wing policies, and as such it acted as a proxy-movement for the Soviet Union.

If you want to support democracy and democracies, that's great. But sometimes you will have to take the side of empires or even the right wing to do that.

127 Kragar  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:40:44pm

Bryan Fischer's worst nightmare: An Iranian turned Euro bear who was in the army

Wojtek (soldier bear)

128 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:41:38pm

re: #113 000G

Plausible rumors or implausible rumors? Stalin had a long history of deporting ethnicities he saw as hostile. He also had a long history of furthering anti-semitism.

The rumors started in late 40s, with the heightening of Stalin's antisemitic campaign. They were echoed by some of the Western Jewish press in those same years (these old "news" items are now used by some H-Deniers to "prove" that Stalin really deported the foreign Jews who were allegedly "really" moved by the Nazis to the Soviet territory instead of murdering them in gas chambers). Step by step they acquired more and more flesh, which crumbles though upon close analysis. E.g. Yakov Etinger, one of the foremost "deportationists" and son of one of those Doctors, claims to have spoken to Bulganin, who told him about the deportation plans. The problem? Etinger never released the alleged notes that he made of those talks, and with years Bulganin's stories grew with more and more details (even though in late 80s Etinger, when writing about this period, never even mentioned any such talks). Then there's the purported letter by Jewish Communists asking to deport all Soviet Jews to Siberia. Etinger even provided a "text" of this letter, allegedly given to him by some anonymous woman (tho I suspect he fabricated it himself). The actual letter was published several years later, it resided in the Presidential archive and while it did castigate "Zionists" (as usual), it merely called for a creation of a proper Jewish newspaper. So the text was a fake in any case.

There are many such items that one could go over. Kostyrchenko analyzed the most important ones in his books and articles, and he is the premier expert on Stalin's antisemitism. This whole "deportation" story is more of a "Jewish soap"-type legend than anything.

129 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:42:22pm

Neda would approve of the walkout.

130 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:42:51pm

re: #127 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Bryan Fischer's worst nightmare: An Iranian turned Euro bear who was in the army

Wojtek (soldier bear)

Hmm, I think these bears are Bryan's worst nightmare.

Or, as is more likely, his nightly fantasy.

131 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:43:15pm

On the topic of no matter what Obama does the right will whine:

Well fair is fair. I have strongly criticized the president in the past on his mid east policy, but he really does seem to be coming through in terms of the PA issue and moves to quiet Turkey's sabre rattling down.

From just a normal real politic stand point - good on him!

From the right wing view what is not to like?

Well apparently, his UN speech was muddled and rambled and sounded too elitist. Not that he supported Israel, but rather, they are appalled that he used a lot of big words.

Perhaps if right-wingers supported education, they would understand English better.

Here are some big words for you righties out there to look up. Practice them in the mirror:

cretinous, inane, sluggish, moronic, subnormal

After being called this again and again by all those smart fellas, you should at least know what they mean.

132 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:44:14pm

re: #130 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Hmm, I think these bears are Bryan's worst nightmare.

Or, as is more likely, his nightly fantasy.

I am pretty sure Bryan is more into Twinks than Bears.

133 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:46:05pm

re: #132 000G

I am pretty sure Bryan is more into Twinks than Bears.

Oh, I don't know. The way he fetishizes Strong Men?

//I swear, some of these guys have to be straight. Statistics would seem to indicate.

134 Kragar  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:46:06pm

re: #130 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Hmm, I think these bears are Bryan's worst nightmare.

Or, as is more likely, his nightly fantasy.

"ITS RESEARCH!!!"

"Your research is conducted with your pants down?"

"...I was hot..."

135 leftynyc  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:46:28pm

re: #74 Obdicut

In other news, I had something in my hand, I have not left this room, and now I can't find where the hell I put it.

I hate that.

Check next to the bong ;-)

136 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:46:45pm

re: #128 Sergey Romanov

I am grateful you are pointing out the historical facts. I am just saying that the rumors are plausible. Especially for contemporary Soviet Jews of that day and age...

137 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:47:31pm

re: #131 LudwigVanQuixote

From the right wing view what is not to like?

Wrong letter after his name, wrong color, wrong middle name, not nec. in that order.

Well apparently, his UN speech was muddled and rambled and sounded too elitist. Not that he supported Israel, but rather, they are appalled that he used a lot of big words.

See explanation, above.

Perhaps if right-wingers supported education, they would understand English better.

They're the ones who are elitist; they can't even stand non-homogenous schools, colleges, and universities. /Schadenfreude

138 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:48:27pm

re: #132 000G

I am pretty sure Bryan is more into Twinks than Bears.

Dunno...he seems much more lik a muscle-worship type to me, but who knows. Can't ever tell from lookin'...

139 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:49:18pm

It's pretty cool how all the right wing blogs are expressing gratitude to President Obama for standing by Israel and forcing Mahmoud Abbas to abandon the Palestinian statehood bid, then walking out on Ahmadinejad's antisemitic speech.

It's so nice to see them drop the hatred and give credit where it's due.

I'm kidding, of course.

140 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:50:07pm

re: #136 000G

What does it matter if the rumors were plausible? They're still rumors and there still is no credible evidence of any plan to deport Soviet Jews anywhere. Nazi Jewish soap rumors weren't that implausible either. They were still plainly false.

141 prairiefire  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:51:41pm

re: #132 000G

I am pretty sure Bryan is more into Twinks than Bears.

Stefan on SNL is my favorite Twink!

142 Kragar  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:52:04pm

re: #139 Charles

It's pretty cool how all the right wing blogs are expressing gratitude to President Obama for standing by Israel and forcing Mahmoud Abbas to abandon the Palestinian statehood bid, then walking out on Ahmadinejad's antisemitic speech.

It's so nice to see them drop the hatred and give credit where it's due.

I'm kidding, of course.

Last I saw, they were bringing up the whole "Arrest him" argument again.

143 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:54:50pm

re: #142 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Last I saw, they were bringing up the whole "Arrest him" argument again.

Lol oh brother. What offense did he commit, this time, outside of simply existing outside of their control, without their permission.

144 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:55:01pm

re: #140 Sergey Romanov

What does it matter if the rumors were plausible? They're still rumors and there still is no credible evidence of any plan to deport Soviet Jews anywhere. Nazi Jewish soap rumors weren't that implausible either. They were still plainly false.

That is not entirely true. The Nazis researched and developed a technique to do so, but did not put it into mass production.

Check out:

Justice at Nuremberg by Robert E. Conot,

Further, they had a serious predilection for making gloves out of people and using their hair for tires.

145 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:58:15pm

Well, apparently calling yourself "anonymous" doesn't make you so.

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

146 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:58:53pm

re: #145 EmmmieG

Well, apparently calling yourself "anonymous" doesn't make you so.

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

And yes, I know it's foxnews, but that's who has the story right now.

147 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:59:32pm

re: #140 Sergey Romanov

What does it matter if the rumors were plausible?

It matters because that explains and partially excuses why they sprang up in the first place.

148 Targetpractice  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 12:59:42pm

re: #139 Charles

It's pretty cool how all the right wing blogs are expressing gratitude to President Obama for standing by Israel and forcing Mahmoud Abbas to abandon the Palestinian statehood bid, then walking out on Ahmadinejad's antisemitic speech.

It's so nice to see them drop the hatred and give credit where it's due.

I'm kidding, of course.

Don't worry, they'll be onto the next "Outrage Du Jour" shortly.

149 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 1:00:46pm

re: #144 LudwigVanQuixote

That is not entirely true. The Nazis researched and developed a technique to do so, but did not put it into mass production.

Check out:

Justice at Nuremberg by Robert E. Conot,

Further, they had a serious predilection for making gloves out of people and using their hair for tires.

Sorry, but I have not only read the Nuremberg files on the Danzig soap (Neely and Witton testimonies, Mazur's descriptions), I have examined the files of the Soviet investigation of the Anatomical Institute, and I have the copies of those files.

It is simply incorrect to state that "the Nazis researched and developed a technique to do so". This implies there was some state program to do so, when there is no evidence of such a program. At most there were isolated attempts by a single individual to use fat of corpses to make some cleaning agent for his lab (because of shortages).

And that soap wasn't made from the Jews anyway.

Danzig soap has nothing whatsoever to do with the rumors about the Jewish "RIF" soap.

150 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 1:01:22pm

re: #143 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Lol oh brother. What offense did he commit, this time, outside of simply existing outside of their control, without their permission.

Well, one can kind of understand the resentmen that does not really want to grant Iran any kind of diplomatic immunity... [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

151 Kragar  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 1:02:42pm

re: #144 LudwigVanQuixote

Just paged this, thought you might be interested.

Rick Perry's 'Environmental Watchdog' is a top climate change skeptic with ties to industrial business

152 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 1:02:53pm

re: #147 000G

It matters because that explains and partially excuses why they sprang up in the first place.

It is indeed obvious why they sprang up. That wasn't the issue.

153 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 1:03:28pm

re: #149 Sergey Romanov

Sorry, but I have not only read the Nuremberg files on the Danzig soap (Neely and Witton testimonies, Mazur's descriptions), I have examined the files of the Soviet investigation of the Anatomical Institute, and I have the copies of those files.

It is simply incorrect to state that "the Nazis researched and developed a technique to do so". This implies there was some state program to do so, when there is no evidence of such a program. At most there were isolated attempts by a single individual to use fat of corpses to make some cleaning agent for his lab (because of shortages).

And that soap wasn't made from the Jews anyway.

Danzig soap has nothing whatsoever to do with the rumors about the Jewish "RIF" soap.

Then I'll tell you what... I will be very happy and relieved to hear that at least one horror was not so even though I have heard differently my entire life.

The gloves and the hair tires, and the gas were perfectly real and bad enough.

154 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 1:03:36pm

A good article on the Danzig soap is this - [Link: www.jstor.org...]

It's not without some mistakes, but it's good.

155 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 1:04:00pm

re: #152 Sergey Romanov

It is indeed obvious why they sprang up. That wasn't the issue.

It was the issue because that was what was being talked about.

156 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 1:05:31pm

This is really cool. I should page about it: [Link: plan28.org...]

157 Ming  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 1:06:16pm

re: #17 Charles

Ahmadinejad has a lot in common with today's Republican Party. He's enthusiastically pro-death penalty, virulently anti-gay, and wants to make sure women are kept under control.

We may start to see "convergence" among some of today's various militant religious groups. Maybe sooner than we think. I remember a few months (or maybe a year or so) ago, there was a Gay Pride parade in Jerusalem, and this was the one issue where Jewish, Christian, and Muslim religious authorities were all in total agreement with one another: they didn't like it.

158 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 1:12:49pm

re: #151 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Just paged this, thought you might be interested.

Rick Perry's 'Environmental Watchdog' is a top climate change skeptic with ties to industrial business

Excellent post!

Shaw's "relevant" scientific background:

[Link: www.tceq.texas.gov...]

Shaw received a bachelor's and master's degree in agricultural engineering from TAMU and a doctorate degree in agricultural engineering from the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign.

He specializes in fertilizer and its effects. Not physics, not chaos theory, not atmospheric science or planetary science or oceanography or anything actually relative to clime, let alone climate itself.

He is a farm guy for big corporate farms. He is rabidly anti-EPA and pro corporate farm - go figure.

159 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 1:13:42pm

Obdi, how's the manuscript reading going? (Not hurrying, the date stands, just curious :)

160 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 1:14:34pm

re: #102 Decatur Deb

Soviet treatment of synagogues must have been moot, in the west, by 1944.

The Hasidim are pissed, they want their Rebbe's library returned.

161 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 1:14:54pm

re: #159 Sergey Romanov

Oh sorry, it goes slowly. I'm finding, actually, my main note is that the sudden turn between authorial voices makes it a little taxing to read, since the emotional tone shifts so abruptly. I guess the good part about that is it shows it's highly communicative of that same tonality.

162 Kragar  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 1:17:03pm

re: #158 LudwigVanQuixote

Excellent post!

Shaw's "relevant" scientific background:

[Link: www.tceq.texas.gov...]

Shaw received a bachelor's and master's degree in agricultural engineering from TAMU and a doctorate degree in agricultural engineering from the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign.

He specializes in fertilizer and its effects. Not physics, not chaos theory, not atmospheric science or planetary science or oceanography or anything actually relative to clime, let alone climate itself.

He is a farm guy for big corporate farms. He is rabidly anti-EPA and pro corporate farm - go figure.

The Food industry is becoming the next pet GOP "Overregulated" industry.

163 Decatur Deb  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 1:17:13pm

re: #160 Alouette

The Hasidim are pissed, they want their Rebbe's library returned.

If I have you correctly, it might have been ironically preserved for them by the Stalinist 'borrow'.

164 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 1:17:14pm

re: #161 Obdicut

Well, lack of a professional historical editor certainly shows, the exigencies of "amateur publishing"...

165 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 1:17:43pm

re: #149 Sergey Romanov

I am impressed that you have read those documents.

166 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 1:19:05pm

re: #162 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The Food industry is becoming the next pet GOP "Overregulated" industry.

Which is just a bit more frightening given the casualty count from the listeria infected cantaloupes.

167 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 1:19:14pm

re: #165 Floral Giraffe

I am impressed that you have read those documents.

I was impressed when reading them. Imagine going, say, through the original Auschwitz files, e.g. the Topf notices that were handled by the same hands that made drawings of the ovens...

168 Kragar  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 1:20:02pm

re: #166 oaktree

Which is just a bit more frightening given the casualty count from the listeria infected cantaloupes.

That was God's plan.

169 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 1:20:11pm

re: #158 LudwigVanQuixote

Is this the dude?

Image: quin.jpg

He looks like a GOP policy dude.

170 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 1:20:53pm

re: #167 Sergey Romanov

History is creepy.

171 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 1:21:27pm

re: #168 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

That was God's plan.

Ah, like that sinkhole in Stafford, VA that is busy eating houses right now?

172 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 1:22:39pm

re: #167 Sergey Romanov

I would be in such awe... Heck, I'm an American, and I was in awe when I saw the first camp number tattoo.

173 BongCrodny  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 1:23:03pm

re: #135 leftynyc

Check next to the bong ;-)

Whatever it was, I didn't take it!

174 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 1:23:03pm

Now that I think of it, the GOP are more and more coming to resemble the villains from the Preacher series.

Kind of spooky.

175 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 1:24:28pm

re: #163 Decatur Deb

If I have you correctly, it might have been ironically preserved for them by the Stalinist 'borrow'.

Yeah, just like Stalin saved the lives of all those Jews when he exiled them to gulags in Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan.
//

176 Decatur Deb  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 1:25:43pm

re: #175 Alouette

Yeah, just like Stalin saved the lives of all those Jews when he exiled them to gulags in Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan.
//

The books can come back.

177 Kragar  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 1:26:38pm

re: #174 Obdicut

Now that I think of it, the GOP are more and more coming to resemble the villains from the Preacher series.

Kind of spooky.

Which candidate will say Humper-di-doo first?

178 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 1:27:01pm

re: #175 Alouette

Yeah, just like Stalin saved the lives of all those Jews when he exiled them to gulags in Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan.
//

Indeed, such things can't be judged in hindsight. That measure averted their imminent murder, but there sure was no such intent on Stalin's part...

179 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 1:32:31pm

It's funny that man who is president of a country that has stoned women for adultery and killed young men for being gay is calling any nation out for cruelty and racism. Fuck Ahmadinejad and his bullshit. I don't blame the Western delegates at all for walking out on his shit.

180 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 1:34:34pm

re: #179 HappyWarrior

It's funny that man who is president of a country that has stoned women for adultery and young men for being gay is calling any nation out for cruelity and racism. Fuck Ahmadinejad and his bullshit. I don't blame the Western delegates at all for walking out on his shit.

But if he didn't call out the US at the UN the entire Mid-East would be calling him a capitalist, US, and Israeli stooge. And then the big kids would steal his lunch money on the playground and give him a wedgie.
///

181 albusteve  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 1:34:59pm

re: #179 HappyWarrior

It's funny that man who is president of a country that has stoned women for adultery and killed young men for being gay is calling any nation out for cruelty and racism. Fuck Ahmadinejad and his bullshit. I don't blame the Western delegates at all for walking out on his shit.

there is a very slight chance he may be hit on the head by a space bus

182 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 1:35:38pm

re: #174 Obdicut

Now that I think of it, the GOP are more and more coming to resemble the villains from the Preacher series.

Kind of spooky.

Clearly they've passed phase 1: mask ambition with piety, and have moved on to phase 2: hone outre, extreme fetishes and taste for sexual acts that involve degradation and deep-encoded misogyny.

183 BongCrodny  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 1:36:47pm

re: #177 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Which candidate will say Humper-di-doo first?

First?

That's *all* they've been saying.

184 BongCrodny  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 1:40:26pm

re: #174 Obdicut

Now that I think of it, the GOP are more and more coming to resemble the villains from the Preacher series.

Kind of spooky.

Y'know, if Mitt shaved his head and poked out one eye...

185 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 1:41:04pm

Humper-di-doo is the philological aorist of DERP.

186 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 1:41:37pm

re: #181 albusteve

there is a very slight chance he may be hit on the head by a space bus

If he hasn't already at least. Feels like he's living Mars with the stuff he says.

187 engineer cat  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 1:43:19pm

Uloric

could be a medication to control uric acid, could be a visigothic warrior

188 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 1:44:42pm

re: #187 engineer dog

Uloric

could be a medication to control uric acid, could be a visigothic warrior

The one you don't see a comin' is the invisigothic warrior...

;)

189 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 1:45:06pm

re: #184 BongCrodny

Y'know, if Mitt shaved his head and poked out one eye...

Exactly!

Image: mitt-romney-will-oppose-same-sex-marriage.jpg

Image: 671218-preacher___issue_55___page_02_of_23_large.jpg

190 Achilles Tang  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 1:45:21pm

re: #31 sattv4u2

Here's the full text of the speech.
(pdf)

[Link: gadebate.un.org...]

bingo

191 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 1:46:20pm

The Danzig soap discussion above made me go through my files again. I forgot all about it, but I actually have copies of unpublished photos from the Anatomic Institute. Gruesome stuff. Here's one of them, deliberately minimized, both for "research priority" reasons, as well as ... well, it's gruesome.

Image: garf70211096004.jpg

These are beheaded corpses which were used in the An. In-te.

192 wrenchwench  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 1:49:33pm

re: #188 oaktree

The one you don't see a comin' is the invisigothic warrior...

;)

That reminds me of one of my observations: Don't worry about the Spotted Owl, it's the unspotted owl that could be in trouble...

193 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 1:50:46pm

Hmm, CERN thinks they might have spotted a FTL sub-atomic particle?

I expect it won't pan out - but otherwise it is a notable observation.

194 shutdown  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 1:52:02pm

re: #193 oaktree

Hmm, CERN thinks they might have spotted a FTL sub-atomic particle?

[Link: www.msnbc.msn.com...]

I expect it won't pan out - but otherwise it is a notable observation.

There is a page on this by NJDHF, plus some commentary by LvQ

195 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 1:52:16pm

re: #191 Sergey Romanov

(Correction: I said unpublished, but actually I see that this one is online, and on Irving's site, no less. Although there it is being put into doubt, and moreover, the people discussing it there don't know that it's from Danzig. Some newspaper wrongly claimed it was from Auschwitz.)

196 Alexzander  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 1:55:41pm

My partner works in nuclear physics and her colleagues are all abuzz waiting for more information about this story coming out of CERN.

197 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 1:56:29pm

re: #195 Sergey Romanov

Sigmund Mazur showing a piece of skin taken from a corpse:

Image: garf70211096009.jpg

198 shutdown  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 1:58:04pm

re: #196 Alexzander

My partner works in nuclear physics and her colleagues are all abuzz waiting for more information about this story coming out of CERN.

Go to the page by NJDHF and add to the discussion. LvQ is doubtful, and it might be interesting to have other's post. Something different than 24/7 politics, for a change...

199 Kragar  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 1:58:45pm
200 Targetpractice  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 2:00:48pm

re: #193 oaktree

Hmm, CERN thinks they might have spotted a FTL sub-atomic particle?

[Link: www.msnbc.msn.com...]

I expect it won't pan out - but otherwise it is a notable observation.

Does this mean the Theory of Special Relativity might be about to get a paddling?

201 Kragar  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 2:01:26pm

re: #200 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Does this mean the Theory of Special Relativity might be about to get a paddling?

FTL drives or GTFO...

202 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 2:02:29pm

re: #198 imp_62

Go to the page by NJDHF and add to the discussion. LvQ is doubtful, and it might be interesting to have other's post. Something different than 24/7 politics, for a change...

I expect pages within a few hours blaming Obama for either the failure of the laws of physics (in Europe!), or alternately slowing the neutrinos down so that they couldn't go fast enough.

:p

And that spending money on high-energy particle physics work does not create jobs - except for ivory tower academic types who have no understanding about how the world really works.
/

203 shutdown  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 2:03:00pm

re: #200 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Does this mean the Theory of Special Relativity might be about to get a paddling?

It would, if this holds up. Not holding my breath.

204 Decatur Deb  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 2:03:27pm

re: #200 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Does this mean the Theory of Special Relativity might be about to get a paddling?

The science isn't very settled, and hardly incontrovertible.

205 Targetpractice  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 2:04:11pm

re: #201 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

FTL drives or GTFO...

Proxima Centauri Or Bust!

206 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 2:04:22pm

re: #197 Sergey Romanov

In the middle ages, there were books bound in human skin, instead of paper.

Wiki..
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

207 Achilles Tang  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 2:05:01pm

re: #193 oaktree

Hmm, CERN thinks they might have spotted a FTL sub-atomic particle?

[Link: www.msnbc.msn.com...]

I expect it won't pan out - but otherwise it is a notable observation.

According to Hawkin and QED it is not entirely out of the question. A photon might make it to the edge of the universe and back in the time it takes another to make it through a double slit experiment a foot away; except that statistically the former will not count.

Perhaps this was what one can genuinely call a statistical fluke.

208 BongCrodny  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 2:05:17pm

re: #199 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Rick Perry is obviously Jody and Ron Paul is T.C.

I'm pegging Newt as one of the Chunt Brothers.

Wub.

209 shutdown  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 2:06:15pm

re: #207 Naso Tang

According to Hawkin and QED it is not entirely out of the question. A photon might make it to the edge of the universe and back in the time it takes another to make it through a double slit experiment a foot away; except that statistically the former will not count.

Perhaps this was what one can genuinely call a statistical fluke.

But you are conflating quantum physics with the issue at hand! And the particle in question here is a neutrino, which has mass, rahter than a photon. We shall see....

210 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 2:06:42pm

re: #203 imp_62

It would, if this holds up. Not holding my breath.

And you see that they're making pronouncements ahead of publishing results as Ludwig observed since, if true, this is a history book making discovery.

And a glaring example of why claiming Big Science is carrying out some kind of massive conspiracy is so laughable. Challenging and investigating towards making that *big* discovery is a major incentive.

211 engineer cat  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 2:07:13pm

Scientists Think Particle Might Move Faster Than Light

gop candidates castigate neutrino for "encouraging speeding and other kinds of lawlessness"

212 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 2:07:33pm

re: #205 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Proxima Centauri Or Bust!

If the drive flash is purple make sure you're in orbit before activating it...

213 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 2:07:48pm

re: #200 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

re: #201 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

re: #193 oaktree

OK condensing some comments on this:

First off, neutrinos have mass. That means they must move slower than light always as per relativity which has been verified countless times in countless different ways. It is also important to note that the neutrino itself was predicted by Fermi using the theory of relativity that it is now supposedly violating.

It is not clear to me what could possibly be special about these neutrinos from CERN that could make them behave differently than other neutrinos. On the off chance that this is a correct finding and not some form of systematic error or failure of the analysis, then the question becomes what happened at CERN that was special for these neutrinos. However I really am not holding my breath for it all to go in that direction.

I will buy this as soon as I buy a perpetual motion machine. The most likely explanation is some form of systematic error on the part of the Italians.

From the article:

Ereditato declined to speculate on what it might mean if other physicists, who will be officially informed of the discovery at a meeting in CERN on Friday, found that OPERA's measurements were correct.

This is a bad, bad sign. Going to the press before publishing is a very bad sign. It show a certain over eagerness. The last people to go to the press first without publishing on something this potentially big were Martin Fleischmann and Stanley Pons (cold fusion).

from Nature:

Most troubling for OPERA is a separate analysis of a pulse of neutrinos from a nearby supernova known as 1987a. If the speeds seen by OPERA were achievable by all neutrinos, then the pulse from the supernova would have shown up years earlier than the exploding star's flash of light; instead, they arrived within hours of each other. "It's difficult to reconcile with what OPERA is seeing,"

I will certainly read their paper once they have it up on Archiv X.

In science, this is a really big gamble. The people at OPERA are certainly certain enough about this to make noise. Going to the press before publishing is always a bad sign though. If they are right, yes this would be giant news of the sort to make a legendary career. They clearly want there to be no confusion with their names if that happens.

Of course, if and when, as is most likely, this turns out to be a systematic error, their names will be attached without any chance of confusion.

214 shutdown  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 2:08:06pm

re: #210 oaktree

And you see that they're making pronouncements ahead of publishing results as Ludwig observed since, if true, this is a history book making discovery.

And a glaring example of why claiming Big Science is carrying out some kind of massive conspiracy is so laughable. Challenging and investigating towards making that *big* discovery is a major incentive.

And beyond that, research scientists barely trust their lab partners, much less have the psychological makeup to manage a massive conspiracy.

215 darthstar  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 2:08:26pm

Whoot!

I wonder if Gary Busey will get Ted Haggard's wife to snort meth out of his buttcrack..."Come on...your husband does it..." (apparently Busey is "born again"...wouldn't surprise me...the guy's a freak)

216 darthstar  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 2:09:04pm

re: #211 engineer dog

Scientists Think Particle Might Move Faster Than Light

Only if god wants it to.

217 Achilles Tang  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 2:09:17pm

re: #209 imp_62

But you are conflating quantum physics with the issue at hand! And the particle in question here is a neutrino, which has mass, rahter than a photon. We shall see...

Ahh, mass. I think QED applies, statistically and theoretically, to either.

Indeed, we shall see.

218 Decatur Deb  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 2:09:52pm

Resting up for tonight's Florida Follies. BBL

219 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 2:10:08pm

re: #204 Decatur Deb

The science isn't very settled, and hardly incontrovertible.

No on the contrary, Special Relativity is up there with things like the Earth is round or the Earth orbits the sun.

For example, a magnetic field turns out to be a relativistically shifted electric field. This is why Faraday's law works. In other words, every time you turn on anything electric that gets its power from a generator, you verify relativity.

220 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 2:11:10pm

re: #206 Floral Giraffe

In the middle ages, there were books bound in human skin, instead of paper.

Wiki..
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

So you do know about the Unholy Necronomicon...

///

221 William of Orange  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 2:11:16pm

HOLY SHIIT!!!!

If this is confirmed, CERN ACTUALLY MADE PARTICLES GO FASTER THAN THE SPEED OF LIGHT!!

BBC reports.

Puzzling results from Cern, home of the LHC, have confounded physicists - because it appears subatomic particles have exceeded the speed of light.

Neutrinos sent through the ground from Cern toward the Gran Sasso laboratory 732km away seemed to show up a tiny fraction of a second early.

The result - which threatens to upend a century of physics - will be put online for scrutiny by other scientists.

In the meantime, the group says it is being very cautious about its claims.

"We tried to find all possible explanations for this," said report author Antonio Ereditato of the Opera collaboration.

"We wanted to find a mistake - trivial mistakes, more complicated mistakes, or nasty effects - and we didn't," he told BBC News.

"When you don't find anything, then you say 'Well, now I'm forced to go out and ask the community to scrutinise this.'"

The speed of light is the Universe's ultimate speed limit, and much of modern physics - as laid out in part by Albert Einstein in his special theory of relativity - depends on the idea that nothing can exceed it.

Now THAT's why I love science!!!

222 shutdown  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 2:11:20pm

re: #218 Decatur Deb

Resting up for tonight's Florida Follies. BBL

The FOXers were practically cumming in their boxers while touring the stage. Saw it on TV at the gym.

223 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 2:12:20pm

re: #221 William of Orange

IF. Big if. Needs replication and replication and more replication.

224 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 2:12:20pm

re: #221 William of Orange

So the Greek financial collapse has moved on from finance to affecting the laws of physics...
/

225 wrenchwench  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 2:12:33pm

re: #197 Sergey Romanov

Sigmund Mazur showing a piece of skin taken from a corpse:

Image: garf70211096009.jpg

What a taxing occupation it must be to work with that kind of information.

226 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 2:12:38pm

re: #221 William of Orange

Please See 213. The very act of using your computer verifies relativity is correct.

227 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 2:13:01pm

re: #220 Sergey Romanov

You might enjoy the books of Andrew Vachss.

228 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 2:14:30pm

re: #227 Floral Giraffe

You might enjoy the books of Andrew Vachss.

First time I hear about him. Does he write books about eldritch horrors and unspeakable monstrosities?

229 Targetpractice  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 2:15:07pm

re: #213 LudwigVanQuixote

Don't worry, I wasn't looking for FTL to appear tomorrow. Just one of those kids who grew up on a steady diet of scifi that one day dreams of walking amongst the stars...and Orion slave girls...wait, what was I saying?

/

230 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 2:17:32pm

re: #229 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Don't worry, I wasn't looking for FTL to appear tomorrow. Just one of those kids who grew up on a steady diet of scifi that one day dreams of walking amongst the stars...and Orion slave girls...wait, what was I saying?

/

Ohh me too. And there may be some creepy things in string theories to make that at least theoretically possible. It is just that I can see nothing from this experiment that could invoke those things.

It is really really hard to measure a 120 km tube from CERN to the experiment site in Italy down to the sub CM scale. My money is on the error lying there.

231 darthstar  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 2:22:45pm

re: #221 William of Orange

HOLY SHIIT!!!

If this is confirmed, CERN ACTUALLY MADE PARTICLES GO FASTER THAN THE SPEED OF LIGHT!!

BBC reports.

Now THAT's why I love science!!!

The only thing faster is the Republican response to anything President Obama might think of saying.

232 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 2:23:54pm

re: #228 Sergey Romanov

He writes fiction, based on his experiences as a NYC child advocate, they do explore the depths of human depravity, as in what adults can do to children. They are very well written, from an outlaws point of view. They aren't easy of hard to read, and required of me, some thinking.
Another Wiki!
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

233 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 2:24:23pm

Study: Crime in surrounding area increased after closure of LA medical marijuana dispensaries

A new study released Tuesday showed that when hundreds of medical marijuana dispensaries were closed last year in Los Angeles crime rates rose in surrounding neighborhoods, challenging claims made by law enforcement agencies that the storefronts are magnets for crime.

The report by the nonprofit RAND Corp. reviewed crime reports for the 10 days prior to and the 10 days after city officials shuttered the clinics last summer after a new ordinance went into effect. The analysis revealed that crime increased about 60 percent within three blocks of a closed dispensary compared to the same parameters for those that remained open.

234 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 2:26:15pm

re: #232 Floral Giraffe

"After he returned and recovered from his injuries, Vachss studied community organizing in 1970 under Saul Alinsky."

Aha!

/

235 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 2:29:58pm

re: #234 Sergey Romanov

Man was looking for answers.
Nothing wrong with that!

236 Achilles Tang  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 2:41:38pm

re: #204 Decatur Deb

The science isn't very settled, and hardly incontrovertible.

The science is never settled, that is it's fundamental principle, until the End Times, that is.

Seriously however, one of the major unsettled issues still is the mating of Relativity (as per Einstein), with Quantum Physics. Both have been verified to the nth degree, within the spheres they occupy, but those spheres only overlap, they don't match and the connections are still to be found.

237 allegro  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 2:49:32pm

re: #233 Killgore Trout

Study: Crime in surrounding area increased after closure of LA medical marijuana dispensaries

Were those crimes buying weed? Or did the closures harsh too many mellows?

238 lostlakehiker  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 3:11:26pm

re: #5 LudwigVanQuixote

The dinnerjacket and Kim Jong Il both seem to belong to the "notice ME! notice ME!" school of silly repressive dictators who are none the less scary and evil.

Dear Leader has put his chosen son on the path to succession. No one dares ever cross Dear Leader in any matter large or trifling.

Ahmadinejad says that he expects the hikers to be released within a couple of days, and behold---it takes 8 days or so. This could never happen to Dear Leader or to Stalin. So, who is really calling the shots in Tehran?

Bruce Bueno de Mesquita, author of the Predictioneers Game and subject of a recent article in the Economist very well worth reading has used the methods described in the article to try and size up who pulls which strings in Iran. His conclusion is that the Army of the Guardians of the Islamic Revolution, with its armed wing and its factory wing, holds more of the cards than any other player. For an analogy, Dear Leader is Stalin, and the Party, the KGB, and the Red Army all bow prostrate before Stalin. But over in Iran, Ahmadinejad is not so strongly seated. He's Doenitz [titular head of state after Hitler], but behind the scenes, it is as if the Waffen SS and Albert Speer had combined to rule on their own behalf. Any analogy is of course factually false, but analogies are still useful.

This Army-Factory setup wins Bruce's game theory analysis of Who Will Rule Iran.

239 Decatur Deb  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 3:45:07pm

re: #219 LudwigVanQuixote

No on the contrary, Special Relativity is up there with things like the Earth is round or the Earth orbits the sun.

For example, a magnetic field turns out to be a relativistically shifted electric field. This is why Faraday's law works. In other words, every time you turn on anything electric that gets its power from a generator, you verify relativity.

Sorry.I was channeling Freedomworks for a moment.

240 sliv_the_eli  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 3:57:07pm

re: #50 lawhawk

Oh, and the 9/11 and Israel connection appears to go back to Iran's proxies in Hizbullah, who used Al Manar to spread the propaganda that 4,000 Israelis didn't show up to work at the WTC on 9/11.

Would that be the same Hizb'allah that is now the controlling party in the Lebanese government?

241 sliv_the_eli  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 3:59:36pm

re: #64 Dadaist

It's not precisely true to call Ahmadinejad a dictator, not because of any elections but because he isn't the most powerful person in the Iranian regime. The Iranian President is very much subordinate to the religious authorities.

True, but he is the face of the theocracy and, if the despicable things that came out of his mouth did not have their backing and support he would not be allowed to act as Iran's chief puppet.


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