The Latest Moronic Right Wing Racist Meme: The “Obama Phone”

Wingnut Land is a weird and ugly place
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Today’s completely fake, blatantly racist right wing attack on President Obama emanates from Drudge Report, like so many of these racist memes do: Just How Racist Is the ‘Obama Phone’ Video?

Answer: totally 100% racist.

There was a video leading the Drudge Report on Thursday afternoon of a poor black woman with messed-up teeth saying she’s voting for President Obama because he gave her a free phone, and perhaps you have some questions about it. Questions like: Is this video racist? Is Obama really giving away phones? Is anyone really bothered by these Obama Phones? And, come on, this is just blatant racism, right? We’ll try to answer them.

Is this Obama Phone phone real?

Sort of. The Federal Communications Commission has a program called Lifeline that provides low-cost or free phone service. The agency’s website says this is because it and Congress “recognize that telephone service provides a vital link to emergency services, government services and surrounding communities.” Who qualifies varies by state, but “in general,” to qualify you must have an income that is no more than 135 percent of the federal poverty line, or be enrolled in assistance programs like Medicaid, public housing assistance, discounted school lunch, or yes, food stamps. (This Factcheck.org piece has a good overview of the issue.) Strictly speaking, it’s not a government-funded program: the telephone companies make payments to a fund administered by a non-profit called the Universal Service Administrative Company, but anyone with a phone bill chips in through a surcharge on their service.

Is the Obama Phone Obama’s doing?

No. The universal service requirement dates back at least to the Communications Act of 1934. The Lifeline program specifically was started in 1984 under President Reagan and was expanded in 1996 under President Clinton to allow qualifying households to choose to apply the benefit to either a landline or a cell phone. So no, it’s not an Obama handout.

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403 comments
1 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:12:17am

Wingnuts all having their little hatefest with the #ObamaPhone hashtag.

2 Gus  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:12:25am

I call this one the Romney Phone.

3 Kragar  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:12:41am

But they've just noticed it, so it has to be Obama's fault.

4 iossarian  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:14:23am

re: #3 Kragar

But they've just noticed it it exists, so it has to be Obama's fault.

I think you're being too charitable there with your restriction of Obama-blaming.

Meta: I just found out that there are blogs on which down-dinging is referred to as "smiting". Which is seven shades of awesome.

5 erik_t  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:14:25am

Wake me up when he's giving all of those welfare queens their Cadillacs.

/

6 Sophist, Gingham Style  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:14:37am

Lazy welfare leech. Instead of waiting for the government to help you you should be out looking for work and submitting job applications and hoping for an employer to call you back...on...

um...


MOOCHER!

7 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:14:38am

This phone assistance plan has been around since the Reagan administration, at that time did it help people pay for their landline service? I remember the "portable phones" of the '80's, they were about the size and weight of bricks.

8 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:14:43am

Anyone still wondering why I ran away from the right wing as fast as I could run?

The answer: idiotic racist garbage like this. Every single right wing blogger is pushing it.

9 Kragar  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:14:58am
10 Gus  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:15:45am

This is also more Obama derangement rehash from 2009.

11 erik_t  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:16:13am

re: #6 SophistFCD

Lazy welfare leech. Instead of waiting for the government to help you you should be out looking for work and submitting job applications and hoping for an employer to call you back...on...

um...

MOOCHER!

Perhaps one could construct a string-phone with two cans and a bootstrap.

12 aagcobb  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:17:30am

Basically they are mocking the woman. Which is ironic, since they are dependent on voters who believe every moronic conspiracy theory that comes down the pike.

13 jaunte  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:20:30am

re: #6 SophistFCD

Lazy welfare leech. Instead of waiting for the government to help you you should be out looking for work and submitting job applications and hoping for an employer to call you back...on...

um...

MOOCHER!

Eerily similar to actual Obamaphone tweet:

14 jaunte  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:21:18am

Stop entrapping defense contractors with government handouts!
..
Oh wait.

15 dragonath  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:21:45am

Good closing paragraph:

Romney was not the originator of the 47 percent meme; like several other talking points he's used this election, he appears to have picked it up from conservative blogs. But as "inelegant" as Romney says his comments were, they're measured, thoughtful, and considerate compared to where they came from. For example, the racists over at Stormfront just love this story. One reader posted the video under the headline "Negro Obama Voter Says 'Vote for Obama because he gives a free Phone,'" and added, just in case the subtext wasn't obvious, "First I thought this was a joke but it's real. Racial inferiority on display." The aggressively racist responses have included, "The media tries not to show scum like this because then it would be easier to see what non-whites are really like" and "what does this talking baboon mean by free? When I pay my taxes it sure as hell ain't free." So, yes, it's totally and obviously racist according to some racists who rushed to a "White Pride" Internet forum as soon as they heard about it on Rush Limbaugh's show. To any conservatives offended at being associated with such vile people, let us say it for you: Using one mockable person you found on the Internet to make generalizations about half the country is lazy and stupid.

16 Kragar  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:21:57am

RNC Chair Reverses Course, Says Republican Party Will ‘Absolutely’ Support Todd Akin

When a reporter asked him at the Republican National Convention last month whether the party would support Akin even if he didn’t drop out, Priebus was unequivocal: “no, no, no.”

REPORTER: If he stays in, is y’all’s position eventually going to change and you’re going to have to support him?

PRIEBUS: No, no, no. He can be tied, we’re not gonna send him a penny.

Today, after Akin stayed in the race and polls showing it tied, Priebus took a far different tone:

Asked directly if he considered Akin to be a better option for Missouri voters than McCaskill, Priebus did not hesitate.

“Well, absolutely,” he said in the interview. “That’s a given, and as chairman of the party, I have an obligation to make sure we win as many seats in the Senate as possible.”

17 erik_t  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:22:28am
18 iossarian  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:22:39am

re: #14 jaunte

Stop entrapping defense contractors with government handouts!
..
Oh wait.

Oil companies have been lured into a culture of dependency by government subsidies. End the sissification of oilmen today!

19 erik_t  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:24:56am

re: #18 iossarian

Oil companies have been lured into a culture of dependency by government subsidies. End the sissification of oilmen today!

Endless ranting by crazed Sierra Clubinazis has resulted in oil company drills shrinking 10% over the last few decades.

20 aagcobb  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:24:57am

In a way, it is an Obamaphone now, because if Romney doesn't think people are entitled to food, housing and medical care, he sure as shit doesn't think the government should be giving them a cell phone.

21 dragonath  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:26:20am

I've seen one of these low income phones. They're pretty much dumbphones that can be cranked out of some factory somewhere for a couple dollars a piece.

I'm okay with helping people get jobs and not die on the streets. Hell yeah.

22 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:26:30am

FREAKING DERP

Oops, this is a spoof account. I have been pwn3d!

23 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:26:32am

Note that this program started in freaking 1934.

24 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:27:04am

re: #23 Charles Johnson

Note that this program started in freaking 1934.

It's an FDRPhone!

25 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:27:12am

re: #22 Sheila Broflovski

FREAKING DERP

[Embedded content]

HAHAHAHAHA

26 Kragar  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:27:14am

re: #23 Charles Johnson

Note that this program started in freaking 1934.

FDR WAS A COMMIE!
/

27 aagcobb  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:27:33am

re: #23 Charles Johnson

Note that this program started in freaking 1934.

Must of been part of that commie New Deal that's been destroying America. Wish we could use a man like Herbert Hoover again!

28 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:27:36am

re: #24 Sheila Broflovski

It's an FDeRPhone!

29 A Mom Anon  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:28:08am

Sigh. My daughter has had one of those phones for 10 yrs. She didn't get some fancy phone either,hers is a reconditioned phone,no camera,no bells and whistles. She makes under 15K a yr,and she got it so that,wait for it,she could get call backs when she puts in job apps. She also has 3 kids,you need a phone if someone gets sick,hurt or to talk to a child's teacher. Or call grandma who lives 850 miles away. Or 911 when the fucking drug addicts down the street are trying to steal from you.

Change the name of this program to A Bootstrap,fuck these wingnut assholes. If you're poor,they expect you to eat out of the trashcan,sleep under a bridge,and heaven forbid you have a fridge and running water. WTF?

30 jaunte  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:28:15am

Rural electrification will soften up our country and make it dependent on the Feds.

31 Kragar  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:28:55am

re: #22 Sheila Broflovski

FREAKING DERP

[Embedded content]

Wha...?

I mean, I hate the TMNT nowadays simply because they ruined the original concept, but what the hell is she talking about?

32 Gus  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:30:23am

TracFone Wireless - SafeLink Wireless

SafeLink Wireless provides a free cell phone and a limited number of voice minutes each month for low-income-eligible families (one per family) who do not use Lifeline services offered by any other phone or wireless company. It is funded through the Universal Service Fund that almost every US taxpayer contributes to via their existing land-line and wireless service provider, but is only operational in a limited number of states.[4][5] It is similar to the Lifeline and LinkUp government subsidized service for home telephones.[6] Applications for service may be done via their web page, or by having them fax or mail an application form. No choice of phone handset is provided by the application process. Additional minutes over the free monthly benefit may be purchased. As of May 2011, Safelink Wireless had almost 4,000,000 subscribers,[7] the largest Lifeline cell phone provider in the United States.

Telecommunications Act of 1996

Sponsor: Larry Pressler

Republican

Of course he was what can now be called a normal Republican. Before the weirdos took over.

33 Kragar  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:30:48am

Huckabee Suggests Obama Should Be Impeached Over Libya Incident

HUCKABEE: It was a planned orchestrated attack led by terrorists, terrorists, Bill. And this White House has to explain why it hasn’t owned up to that. Why it can’t say it. I think frankly, if this issue really gets traction that it deserves, and let it say it deserves, go back. Richard Nixon was forced out of office because he lied. And because he covered some stuff up. I will be blunt and tell you this. Nobody died in Watergate. We have people who are dead because of this. There are questions to be answered and Americans ought to demand to get answers. [...]

HEMMER: Just one more thing here. What you’re describing, comparing events of today to Watergate.

HUCKABEE: I sure am….Bill, i’m not saying this just out of some political interest. I’m saying that our trust as a nation is built on our ability to know that when our president, whoever he is, Democrat or Republican, looks us in the eye and tells us something, we ought to know he is telling us the truth.

34 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:30:48am

I see that Breitbart.com has labeled Mona Eltahawy an "Islamist" today. The stupid bastards. Mona is about as far from an Islamist as a Muslim can possibly be.

35 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:31:21am

re: #31 Kragar

Wha...?

I mean, I hate the TMNT nowadays simply because they ruined the original concept, but what the hell is she talking about?

Interesting how empathy and compassion are being solely associated to socialism now. Is that because conservatism wants a total monopoly on hate, fear, intolerance, and the worship of Mammon?
//

36 erik_t  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:31:23am

re: #34 Charles Johnson

I see that Breitbart.com has labeled Mona Eltahawy an "Islamist" today. The stupid bastards. Mona is about as far from an Islamist as a Muslim can possibly be.

They live in a binary world at the best of times.

37 A Mom Anon  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:31:42am

re: #31 Kragar

She's a hateful,rancid,angry,twisted freak. She sees a horrible liberal plot in a fucking houseplant,that's what her problem is. She's got issues that could keep a therapist employed for life.

(edited to add: If this is a spoof,I still stand by my words towards this person. She's 100 lbs of mean in a 10 lb bag. Her actions speak for themselves)

38 Kragar  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:31:54am

re: #34 Charles Johnson

I see that Breitbart.com has labeled Mona Eltahawy an "Islamist" today. The stupid bastards. Mona is about as far from an Islamist as a Muslim can possibly be.

Rational comparisons have never been their forte.

39 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:32:38am

The fact that this program started under Ronald Reagan reminds us of another important truth: Far too many people who are right of center* today only know of REAGAN!!1; They know nothing of the real Ronald W. Reagan. And if they did know of his creating a phone program to help jobless people and earlier telling parts of the GOP that the Republican Party had to make its peace with Social Security, they would scream "RINO!!!11" in rage.

*: This post focuses only on the views of those right-of-center. The Magical Balance Fairy took a vacation day today.

40 Sophist, Gingham Style  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:33:30am

re: #22 Sheila Broflovski

FREAKING DERP

[Embedded content]

Pretty sure that's a spoof account.

41 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:33:49am

Now, see here. What's this GI Bill business? Why, military service is an education in and of itself. The trailer park boys and inner city urchins who fill the ranks when we need them can see the world, learn some discipline for a change, and get familiar with soap and water. Now, you want to send them to college on our dime? It's a waste of money, I tell you, they just don't need to be rubbing shoulders with other classes of people. They might get ideas and poison our quality youth with their radical ideas to boot. They should be grateful we swore them in and gave them those nifty uniforms in the first place.

42 aagcobb  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:33:53am

re: #34 Charles Johnson

I see that Breitbart.com has labeled Mona Eltahawy an "Islamist" today. The stupid bastards. Mona is about as far from an Islamist as a Muslim can possibly be.

Taqiyya! All muslims are committed to killing or converting all infidels!eleventy!

43 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:34:03am

re: #40 SophistFCD

Pretty sure that's a spoof account.

Oh thank Zod.

44 darthstar  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:34:28am

re: #39 Dark_Falcon

Your inner-moderate is showing.

45 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:35:02am

re: #34 Charles Johnson

I see that Breitbart.com has labeled Mona Eltahawy an "Islamist" today. The stupid bastards. Mona is about as far from an Islamist as a Muslim can possibly be.

Spencer tweeted that she's a "malignant fascist hypocrite". He's so eloquent.

46 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:35:21am

re: #40 SophistFCD

Pretty sure that's a spoof account.

I think I've been pwn3d.

47 nines09  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:35:33am

re: #17 erik_t

Romney's trickling down.

/

Because the RNC and the GOP absolutely believe what he said.

48 mr.fusion  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:36:00am

re: #39 Dark_Falcon

And if they did know of his creating a phone program to help jobless people and earlier telling parts of the GOP that the Republican Party had to make its peace with Social Security, they would scream "RINO!!!11" in rage.

I don't think they'd call him a RINO....I think they'd invent some reason as to why it was ok for him to do it but socialism for Obama.

It's like with tax cuts. For the last 4 years we've been hearing how tax cuts create jobs.....but it's also awful that 47% don't pay fed income taxes. It makes no sense, but it doesn't have to

49 recusancy  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:36:01am

re: #40 SophistFCD

Pretty sure that's a spoof account.

It is.

50 Kragar  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:36:04am

re: #43 Varek Raith

Oh thank Zod.

Can we thank Ursa instead?

51 dragonath  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:36:41am

This is the first time I've really seen organized pushback against Drudge.

Things are changing.

52 BongCrodny  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:36:56am

re: #22 Sheila Broflovski

FREAKING DERP
Libs are using Nickleodeon and Teenage Mutant Liberal Turtles to implant socialism. Turtles spew hatred and intolerance

I fear how crazy those folks are going to get if Obama wins a second term.

On the other hand, I look forward to how crazy those folks are going to get if Obama wins a second term.

53 Someone Please Beam Me Up!  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:37:07am

re: #33 Kragar

HUCKABEE: I sure am….Bill, i’m not saying this just out of some political interest. I’m saying that our trust as a nation is built on our ability to know that when our president, whoever he is, Democrat or Republican, looks us in the eye and tells us something, we ought to know he is telling us the truth.

Well, that rules out Romney.

54 Kronocide  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:38:25am

I keep waiting for bottom, but it's not here yet.

55 aagcobb  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:38:27am

re: #52 BongCrodny

I fear how crazy those folks are going to get if Obama wins a second term.

On the other hand, I look forward to how crazy those folks are going to get if Obama wins a second term.

The insane rants on the blogs will be entertaining. What's worrisome are the unbalanced people with guns who will take the call for an armed insurrection seriously.

56 nines09  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:38:29am

re: #53 Someone Please Beam Me Up!

Well, that rules out Romney.

Mike knows burned down houses.

57 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:38:52am

re: #31 Kragar

Wha...?

I mean, I hate the TMNT nowadays simply because they ruined the original concept, but what the hell is she talking about?

She's talking about some nasty Tweets sent out by the new voice of Leonardo, American Pie star Jason Biggs. His tweets are indeed vile, referring to both Janna Ryan (Paul Ryan's wife) and Ann Romney in an explicit and objectifying manner, but they do not prove any link to 'socialism'. They're just "stupid actor shoots his mouth off".

58 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:39:36am

re: #34 Charles Johnson

I see that Breitbart.com has labeled Mona Eltahawy an "Islamist" today. The stupid bastards. Mona is about as far from an Islamist as a Muslim can possibly be.

The irony is that Obama is the one actually doing something about Islamist terrorists. Drones killed two more AQ bigwigs Wednesday. If Obama treats his friends like this imagine what he will do to his enemies. Hell, maybe that's why the nuts are so scared.

59 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:39:38am
60 Joanne  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:39:41am

re: #4 iossarian

I think you're being too charitable there with your restriction of Obama-blaming.

Meta: I just found out that there are blogs on which down-dinging is referred to as "smiting". Which is seven shades of awesome.

Updinged for the seven shades of awesome!

61 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:40:15am

re: #57 Dark_Falcon

He needs to play Raphael instead.

Bam!

62 dragonath  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:44:04am

Donatello with his bo staff was the only way to play the NES game.

63 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:44:33am

re: #44 darthstar

Your inner-moderate is showing.

I don't like historical ignorance is what it is, Darthstar. Heck, part of the reason I still hang around here is that this is one of the few places where I can discuss history. And while I dislike historical ignorance, I utterly despise politically motivated historical revisionism (scientifically motivated historical revisionism is sometimes justified, and at infrequent times utterly necessary).

64 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:44:58am

re: #59 Sheila Broflovski

Who would be stupid enough to send me hate mail with their full name, work title and work phone? Right wing racist shits -stunning stupidity

Lubbock County Republicans maybe. They'd be bragging about it on their favorite hate radio outlet.

65 Kragar  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:45:01am

re: #61 Varek Raith

He needs to play Raphael instead.

Bam!

Needs less pizza, more bloody death.

66 Kragar  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:49:02am

Robison Suggests Obama is Controlled by Satanic Lies

Televangelist James Robison warns in a blog post today that “the belief system controlling the most powerful leader and far too many leaders in America is built on lies,” which have emanated from Satan himself. Robison asserts that Obama and his supporters are trying to usher in a “dictatorially powerful state” and have fallen under a “deadly deception.” He maintains that their belief system derives from “Karl Marx, another demonically deceived individual,” who advocated “a lie birthed in the pit of hell.” The election will determine whether the US climbs out of “the ditch of defeat, debt, depravity, and deception” or turns itself “over to Pharaoh.”

67 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:49:34am

re: #46 Sheila Broflovski

I think I've been pwn3d.

It's getting harder and harder to tell.

68 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:50:18am

re: #65 Kragar

Needs less pizza, more bloody death.

Sounds like the words of a Khornate to me.

69 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:50:29am

re: #66 Kragar

“the ditch of defeat, debt, depravity, and deception” DERP

70 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:51:15am

re: #69 Shiplord Kirel

“the ditch of defeat, debt, depravity, and deception” DERP

The real question is whether this is the last ditch or not, since that is the most important one.

71 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:51:40am

re: #22 Sheila Broflovski

FREAKING DERP

[Embedded content]

Oops, this is a spoof account. I have been pwn3d!

The problem isn't that you were pwn3d, it's that it's something that's believable.
Would anyone really be surprised if that was her real account?

72 erik_t  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:52:21am

re: #66 Kragar

Robison Suggests Obama is Controlled by Satanic Lies

So... Obama is building a time machine?

I'm confused.

73 Kragar  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:52:23am

re: #68 Dark_Falcon

Sounds like the words of a Khornate to me.

No, that's Bryan Fischer territory. I prefer Night Lords

74 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:53:04am

re: #71 Reverend Mother Ramallo

The problem isn't that you were pwn3d, it's that it's something that's believable.
Would anyone really be surprised if that was her real account?

Pwn3d by Poe's Law.

75 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:54:21am

re: #54 Kronocide

I keep waiting for bottom, but it's not here yet.

They should just keep digging all the way to China.
That way they can really see what communism is all about.
Also, they won't be here anymore.

76 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:54:37am

re: #66 Kragar

Robison Suggests Obama is Controlled by Satanic Lies

Satan is still pissed because while he was resting in his pit some followers of some upstart prophet went and ate all his juniper berries.
//

77 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:56:04am

re: #65 Kragar

Needs less pizza, more bloody death.

heh. And TMNT is the poster child of how an independent satire can be possessed and mutated into something even campier than what it was making fun of.

78 DelusionDeluge  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:56:26am

We're about a month and a half away from Michelle Malkin organizing a Million Maker March.

79 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:56:30am

re: #58 Shiplord Kirel

The irony is that Obama is the one actually doing something about Islamist terrorists. Drones killed two more AQ bigwigs Wednesday. If Obama treats his friends like this imagine what he will do to his enemies. Hell, maybe that's why the nuts are so scared.

Getting an uneasy image of the Prez sitting in the West Wing late at night with an x-box controller, telling Michelle that he'll come to bed after "just one more turn".

80 jaunte  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:57:47am

re: #66 Kragar

The election will determine whether the US climbs out of “the ditch of defeat, debt, depravity, and deception” or turns itself “over to Pharaoh.”

Pharaoh? Isn't it a few thousand years late to worry about him?

81 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:57:48am

re: #66 Kragar

Robison Suggests Obama is Controlled by Satanic Lies

I just laugh at people like this. They're even more laughable than the people who act like Obama isn't really an American.

82 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:58:08am

re: #79 Decatur Deb

Getting an uneasy image of the Prez sitting in the West Wing late at night with an x-box controller, telling Michelle that he'll come to bed after "just one more turn".

You gotta wonder whether some wag has tried to rig a Hellfire to play the "You've Got Mail" jingle real loud right before impact.

83 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:58:11am

re: #80 jaunte

Pharaoh? Isn't it a few thousand years late to worry about him?

Didn't you see The Mummy!?? The pharaoh is near!

84 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:58:14am

re: #66 Kragar

Turn ourselves over to Pharoah? The Great Pyramid was originally sheathed in white limestone and reportedly capped with gold. I think an exact replica would be just the thing for the DC skyline.

85 aagcobb  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:58:18am

How badly did Mother Jones screw Romney with the 47% video? Just look at the graph of Nate Silver's Nowcast in his latest post. By 9/14 the DNC bounce had stopped growing, then as soon as the vidoe came out on 9/18, Obama's lead started growing again. It was the nail in Romney's coffin.

86 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:59:05am

re: #84 Shiplord Kirel

Turn ourselves over to Pharoah? The Great Pyramid was originally sheathed in white limestone and reportedly capped with gold. I think an exact replica would be just the thing for the DC skyline.

Back of the $1! Too late!

87 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 10:59:49am

re: #85 aagcobb

How badly did Mother Jones Mitt Romney screw Romney with the 47% video?

FTFY

88 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:00:22am

re: #77 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

heh. And TMNT is the poster child of how an independent satire can be possessed and mutated into something even campier than what it was making fun of.

how so?

89 Lidane  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:01:13am

What right wing racism?

90 aagcobb  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:01:15am

re: #84 Shiplord Kirel

Turn ourselves over to Pharoah? The Great Pyramid was originally sheathed in white limestone and reportedly capped with gold. I think an exact replica would be just the thing for the DC skyline.

In Obama's second term, it will be built by weeping christian slaves under the lash of overseers of the Muslim Brotherhood imported straight from Egypt./

91 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:01:28am

re: #87 wrenchwench

FTFY

Just hoping it was some busboy making 4 bucks an hour and tips.

92 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:01:31am

DESPERATE AND PATHETIC

CRAP, PWN3D AGAIN!

93 dragonath  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:01:35am

re: #66 Kragar

Is that the same pit of hell education and health care came out of?

Cool.

94 Gus  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:02:19am

re: #92 Sheila Broflovski

DESPERATE AND PATHETIC

[Embedded content]

Uh oh! That's another parody account. ;)

95 Kragar  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:02:24am

re: #85 aagcobb

How badly did Mother Jones screw Romney with the 47% video? Just look at the graph of Nate Silver's Nowcast in his latest post. By 9/14 the DNC bounce had stopped growing, then as soon as the vidoe came out on 9/18, Obama's lead started growing again. It was the nail in Romney's coffin.

96 recusancy  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:02:44am

re: #92 Sheila Broflovski

DESPERATE AND PATHETIC

[Embedded content]

That's a parody account.

97 erik_t  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:02:48am

re: #92 Sheila Broflovski

DESPERATE AND PATHETIC

I am going on a camping trip this weekend. I have a 100% success rate not getting lost. Therefore, I'm not telling anyone where I'm going because I've never gotten lost.

(Sample sizes, how the fuck do they work?)

98 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:03:43am

Breitbart.com commenters are out of control with rage at Mona Eltahawy. Some of them are advocating genocide again.

[Link: www.breitbart.com...]

99 jaunte  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:04:03am

re: #95 Kragar

Dick Morris just left out the word "boot" after the word "lead."

100 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:04:08am

re: #96 recusancy

That's a parody account.

CRAP, PWN3D AGAIN.

In some fonts (like, the font they use in Twitter) you can't tell the difference between the lowercase L and uppercase I.

101 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:04:09am

NYC Prohibits Controversial Subway Ads in Wake of Islamist's Vandalism

If she was getting her head bounced off the concrete, or eating a mouthful of fist, how well would she be able to spray paint a sign?

102 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:04:12am

re: #31 Kragar

Wha...?

I mean, I hate the TMNT nowadays simply because they ruined the original concept, but what the hell is she talking about?

When I was an adolescent and teen in the 80s at the height of the Satanic Panic, I was always baffled by how someone could go from being a kid -- who presumably liked fun, kid-type stuff including cartoons and comics and so forth -- to being a bizarre old blue-hair weirdo preaching about devil-worship in the Smurfs, Satanic messages deliberately hidden in the theme song to The Mister Ed Show, and other things that would make Alex Jones sound like Edward R. Murrow.

I'd expect full-blown hidden-message conspiracy theories from someone twice her age, but Malkin still seems too young for it.

103 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:05:21am

re: #96 recusancy

That's a parody account.

Someone has enough time to parody Jennifer Rubin? Heh.

104 aagcobb  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:05:24am

re: #95 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Of course, Romney never got a lead from the convention, so I guess Morris can claim he wasn't wrong.

105 recusancy  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:05:31am

re: #100 Sheila Broflovski

CRAP, PWN3D AGAIN.

In some fonts (like, the font they use in Twitter) you can't tell the difference between the lowercase L and uppercase I.

It says in the description "not the real Rubin".

106 Kragar  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:05:47am

re: #88 Dark_Falcon

how so?

The original TMNT was a pretty dark revenge based martial arts comic, which just happened to use mutant animals as the protagonists. Once it went mainstream though, marketers decided to go heavy on the teenage and tone down the ninja, which is why it went from bloody revenge to "Cowabunga, lets eat some pizza dudes."

107 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:05:58am

re: #92 Sheila Broflovski

DESPERATE AND PATHETIC

[Embedded content]

CRAP, PWN3D AGAIN!

Notice: Until the election, all tweets will be considered parodies.

108 jaunte  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:06:20am

re: #101 Charles Johnson

NYC Prohibits Controversial Subway Ads in Wake of Islamist's Vandalism

They're still identifying Pamela Hall as a "bystander."

109 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:06:30am

Poor Poe.
Never stood a chance against wingnuts.
;)

110 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:06:42am
111 aagcobb  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:06:54am

re: #98 Charles Johnson

Breitbart.com commenters are out of control with rage at Mona Eltahawy. Some of them are advocating genocide again.

[Link: www.breitbart.com...]

What did she do that got them so mad at her?

112 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:07:03am

re: #106 Kragar

The original TMNT was a pretty dark revenge based martial arts comic, which just happened to use mutant animals as the protagonists. Once it went mainstream though, marketers decided to go heavy on the teenage and tone down the ninja, which is why it went from bloody revenge to "Cowabunga, lets eat some pizza dudes."

I think I read that on cracked. I loved the cartoons as a kid.

113 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:07:52am

re: #101 Charles Johnson

And the NYC MTA isn't banning controversial ads. They're just appending their own disclaimer to any and all political/religious/socioeconomic advocacy ads to indicate that they don't reflect the views of the MTA.

“The display of this advertisement does not imply MTA’s endorsement of any views expressed.”

114 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:08:01am

Absolutely sickening and vile. These people should be in a mental institution.

Expel and Raze. The sooner the better.

[...]

Damn shame this Eltahawy wasn't given a bit of a tazing at the same time...

[...]

OK americans, the time has come. We will now begin taking our country back.

[...]

Doomberg had to be on the inside of the "Muslim Cabal" that took down the towers.

[...]

You can demand that a poster be taken down...nanny state...but you cannot tell us how to think! and my thinking is that these types of muzzis are vermin!

[...]

The Muslims with the help of people like Obama, Clinton, Napolitano, and Bloomberg plan to "Dhimmitize" this whole Nation. They must be stopped.

[...]

Muslims react to being called savages by acting like savages.

[...]

Muslims react to pretty much everything by acting like savages.

115 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:08:49am

re: #88 Dark_Falcon

how so?

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

It started as a one-off parody. And the early comics stayed pretty sort of that way and self-consistent. The toy, marketing, and animated series took it into serious camp mode along with changing the characters quite a bit. (The equivalent to Krang, for instance, are not villains in the early comic books.)

116 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:09:18am

It is funny arguing cartoons with my kid brother who's come of age in this and last decade. He's convinced that people like myself who grew up in the 90's had no taste. His sub-generation gave us Fred Figgelhorn, and with that I would rest my case.

117 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:10:34am
118 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:10:41am

re: #106 Kragar

The original TMNT was a pretty dark revenge based martial arts comic, which just happened to use mutant animals as the protagonists. Once it went mainstream though, marketers decided to go heavy on the teenage and tone down the ninja, which is why it went from bloody revenge to "Cowabunga, lets eat some pizza dudes."

Another example of why somethings should stay 'R' rated: It allows them to maintain their integrity, with some freedom form the charge that they are "corrupting the youth".

119 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:11:53am

re: #114 Charles Johnson

Absolutely sickening and vile. These people should be in a mental institution.

All you need is love hate and genocidal fantasies.

120 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:12:00am

re: #111 aagcobb

What did she do that got them so mad at her?

She got arrested spray painting one of Pamela Geller's anti-Jihad ads in the New York subway.

121 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:13:00am

re: #117 Varek Raith

[Link: herndon.patch.com...]

That's my hometown, wow.

122 Big Steve  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:13:04am

re: #101 Charles Johnson

NYC Prohibits Controversial Subway Ads in Wake of Islamist's Vandalism

I have to say that Ms Eltahawy was totally in the wrong. She was defacing a legally placed ad....an ad that was legal free speech. She could have elected to protest the sign, pay for an ad of her own....whatever. Expressing hatred is free speech....spray painting over it is an action and illegal. Had she done this and happily accepted her arrest I would have viewed it as a plucky protest but to then harangue the cops for doing their job was also tacky. And further her actions only served to give Pam Geller the exact platform of victim that she desired.

123 Kragar  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:13:11am

re: #120 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

She got arrested spray painting one of Pamela Geller's anti-Jihad ads in the New York subway.

HORROR!!!
/

124 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:13:33am

The Islamophobe Geller at the MTA:

Blogger Pamela Geller — who spearheads the group that bought the controversial ads — attended the board meeting to urge the MTA to institute a fair ad policy.

“I love Muslims,” she said. “I help Muslim girls in America get out of homes that are dangerous because they want to live Western lives.”

About seven members of the public were kicked out of the meeting for booing her.

There's so much love there. /facepalm

125 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:14:32am

re: #124 lawhawk

The Islamophobe Geller at the MTA:

There's so much love there. /facepalm

Yeah, Pam lurves her some Muslims just like Ann Coulter lurves her some Juice.

126 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:14:32am

re: #110 Sheila Broflovski

I hope this is a parody and not a real story.

Report: Man Who Was 'Tortured' by the Prospect of Obama's Re-Election Kills Family, Self

No, it's widespread, and with far too many pictures of the family.

127 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:14:56am

re: #33 Kragar

Huckabee Suggests Obama Should Be Impeached Over Libya Incident

Then Bush should have been executed over the Twin Towers incident.

128 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:15:36am

re: #126 Decatur Deb

No, it's widespread, and with far too many pictures of the family.

I read the Herndon articles and nothing was said about depression over Obama's re-election. Could that part be made up?

129 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:15:40am

re: #127 Eventual Carrion

Then Bush should have been executed over the Twin Towers incident.

STOP BLAMING BUSH! (while we blame Jimmy Carter and Obama for everything else)

130 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:16:02am

re: #122 Big Steve

I have to say that Ms Eltahawy was totally in the wrong. She was defacing a legally placed ad....an ad that was legal free speech. She could have elected to protest the sign, pay for an ad of her own....whatever. Expressing hatred is free speech....spray painting over it is an action and illegal. Had she done this and happily accepted her arrest I would have viewed it as a plucky protest but to then harangue the cops for doing their job was also tacky. And further her actions only served to give Pam Geller the exact platform of victim that she desired.

Here's what I believe:

131 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:16:44am

re: #128 Sheila Broflovski

I read the Herndon articles and nothing was said about depression over Obama's re-election. Could that part be made up?

An early article cited quotes of friends, can't find it now.

132 jaunte  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:17:53am

re: #110 Sheila Broflovski

I hope this is a parody and not a real story.

Report: Man Who Was 'Tortured' by the Prospect of Obama's Re-Election Kills Family, Self

Reminds me of this opinion piece from yesterday:

P. M. Carpenter: "This phenomenon is truly fascinating. We are witnessing the post-cultivation of mass psychosis in real time. Romney and Gingrich and Bachmann and other GOP primary dwarfs as well as Fox News and right-wing talk radio have invested four years in the filthy delusionization of their base.
....
The GOP's worst problem hasn't even yet kicked in. Losing this election will be a holiday picnic compared to the massive headache the party will suffer afterward: how to retain within its fold these millions of raging paranoids, as a recovering base, while proceeding to reorganize itself as a responsible player in American governance."
[Link: pmcarpenter.blogs.com...]

"Thomas Jefferson's nightmare of holding a wolf by the ears"

133 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:18:10am

re: #122 Big Steve

Also, she said the arresting officers were sympathetic. Who said she harangued them?

134 jaunte  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:19:34am

re: #133 wrenchwench

She insisted they tell her why she was being arrested.

135 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:20:48am

re: #134 jaunte

She insisted they tell her why she was being arrested.

OUTRAGEOUS!

136 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:21:37am

re: #118 Dark_Falcon

Another example of why somethings should stay 'R' rated: It allows them to maintain their integrity, with some freedom form the charge that they are "corrupting the youth".

I actually had a set of the Dark Horse lead TNMT miniatures from 1986. They popped up now and then in D&D games as surprise recurring competitive group - often to steal a prize piece of loot after the adventurers got to the boss' lair.

Painted up in olive and matte colors so that they were more ninja-ish. None of this color-coded mask crap. :p

137 Big Steve  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:22:42am

re: #133 wrenchwench

Also, she said the arresting officers were sympathetic. Who said she harangued them?

re: #134 jaunte

She insisted they tell her why she was being arrested.

Which by the way is NOT a legal requirement of a arresting officer....to tell you what you were arrested for. The charges are determined by the DA. Further she then ranted about America this and America that when they did arrest her. As I said, had she done this as a plucky protest and accepted the consequences, LIKE those that did civil rights protests in the 60's I would have more sympathy.

138 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:23:28am

re: #128 Sheila Broflovski

This one--Daily Mail:

[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

139 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:24:25am

re: #136 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

I actually had a set of the Dark Horse lead TNMT miniatures from 1986. They popped up now and then in D&D games as surprise recurring competitive group - often to steal a prize piece of loot after the adventurers got to the boss' lair.

Painted up in olive and matte colors so that they were more ninja-ish. None of this color-coded mask crap. :p

When my kids were growing up, we didn't have a TV, so my kids "missed out" on all the cultural trivia of the '80's and '90's. When my youngest son was about 5 years old, somebody at our congregation asked him, "Who's your favorite Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle?" He said, "I don't speak Russian."

140 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:24:55am

re: #138 Decatur Deb

This one--Daily Mail:

[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

AKA "The Daily Fail"

141 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:25:31am

re: #138 Decatur Deb

This one--Daily Mail:

[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

Very sad. I only remember one homicide in Herndon when I grew up there so this is pretty shocking regardless of politics and such.

142 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:26:07am

re: #140 Sheila Broflovski

AKA "The Daily Fail"

I'll keep an eye on the local news/papers and link any new info.

143 BongCrodny  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:26:09am

re: #137 Big Steve

re: #134 jaunte

Which by the way is NOT a legal requirement of a arresting officer....to tell you what you were arrested for. The charges are determined by the DA. Further she then ranted about America this and America that when they did arrest her. As I said, had she done this as a plucky protest and accepted the consequences, LIKE those that did civil rights protests in the 60's I would have more sympathy.

What, you mean she should have been more ladylike?

144 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:26:32am

re: #137 Big Steve

She did NOT harangue the officers or resist in any way.

145 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:26:45am

re: #140 Sheila Broflovski

AKA "The Daily Fail"

Motive is credible. The RW machine is winding people up pretty tight. You can see it without going farther into the crazy than Freep.

146 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:27:23am

re: #137 Big Steve

re: #134 jaunte

Which by the way is NOT a legal requirement of a arresting officer....to tell you what you were arrested for. The charges are determined by the DA. Further she then ranted about America this and America that when they did arrest her. As I said, had she done this as a plucky protest and accepted the consequences, LIKE those that did civil rights protests in the 60's I would have more sympathy.

So if she was polite, you would have supported her protest of hate speech, but as it stands, you have more respect for the hate speech because it was legal and paid for.

Your sympathy is not worth the pixels it would take to express it.

147 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:28:33am

re: #137 Big Steve

As I said, had she done this as a plucky protest and accepted the consequences, LIKE those that did civil rights protests in the 60's I would have more sympathy.

Right. You don't seriously believe the civil rights protests were all orderly and polite, do you?

148 Big Steve  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:28:54am

re: #143 BongCrodny

What, you mean she should have been more ladylike?

Oh you are a fucking ass......show me one part of my argument that was sexist.

149 BongCrodny  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:29:57am

re: #148 Big Steve

Oh you are a fucking ass......show me one part of my argument that was sexist.

That wasn't very plucky, Big Steve.

150 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:30:03am

And by the way, that idiot photographer Pamela Hall should have also been arrested for assault.

151 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:30:46am

re: #137 Big Steve

A random woman spray painting and ad in the NY subway, then quietly being taken away by police wouldn't have brought any attention to her protest.
What would be the point in that?

152 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:30:46am

If you watch the video you'll see Pamela Hall using her camera tripod to try to push Mona Eltahawy away. That's assault, people.

153 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:30:47am
154 Big Steve  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:31:26am

re: #147 Charles Johnson

Right. You don't seriously believe the civil rights protests were all orderly and polite, do you?

Where did I use the term polite? Orderly? My comment is that had she done this act realizing that arrest was a possible outcome, then I would have respected it as genuine civil disobedience. However she clearly thought it was her right to deface the sign and she was shocked that she was arrested.

155 Big Steve  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:32:06am

re: #150 Charles Johnson

And by the way, that idiot photographer Pamela Hall should have also been arrested for assault.

Acutally I agree with that part too....both should have been arrested.

156 erik_t  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:32:18am

re: #154 Big Steve

Where did I use the term polite? Orderly?

You used the word 'harangue', which is rather the opposite. Don't be obtuse.

157 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:33:30am

re: #155 Big Steve

Acutally I agree with that part too....both should have been arrested.

I think she was shocked that they both weren't arrested actually.

158 engineer cat  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:33:47am

Rasmussen Tracking 9/25 - 9/27 1500 LV 3.0 47 46 Obama +1
FOX News 9/24 - 9/26 1092 LV 3.0 48 43 Obama +5
Gallup Tracking 9/21 - 9/27 3050 RV 2.0 50 44 Obama +6

so, it's clear that romney is winning if you read the polls correctly

159 Gus  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:33:49am

Derp.

160 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:34:53am

re: #153 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Obama is more than glad to help Mitt be Mitt

[Embedded content]

Poor Mitt can't catch a break. Seriously all this guy does is pander to nutcases and then when you call him on it, he cries "I never said or did that!"

161 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:35:33am

re: #145 Decatur Deb

Motive is credible. The RW machine is winding people up pretty tight. You can see it without going farther into the crazy than Freep.

I stopped bathing in the Fever Swamp after the 2008 election.

162 jaunte  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:35:38am

re: #159 Gus

Gay marriage could lead to the heat death of the Universe!

163 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:36:57am

re: #159 Gus

[Embedded content]

Derp.

Remind of that gem, next time Bobby Jindal is made out to be a smart conservative. The guy's an idiot. Really gay marriage is going to effect the right to bear arms? Really?

164 Bulworth  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:36:59am
There was a video leading the Drudge Report on Thursday afternoon of a poor black woman with messed-up teeth saying she’s voting for President Obama because he gave her a free phone, and perhaps you have some questions about it. Questions like: Is this video racist? Is Obama really giving away phones?

Hey, we're just asking questions here!

165 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:37:19am

re: #162 jaunte

Gay marriage could lead to the heat death of the Universe!

Gay marriage could lead to gay divorce!

166 engineer cat  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:37:22am

re: #154 Big Steve

Where did I use the term polite? Orderly? My comment is that had she done this act realizing that arrest was a possible outcome, then I would have respected it as genuine civil disobedience. However she clearly thought it was her right to deface the sign and she was shocked that she was arrested.

when i read her twitter feed a couple of days ago she was clearly stating that she expected to get in trouble with the police and that it was worth it

is she saying something different?

167 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:38:10am

Bobby needs to stop sampling the communion wine...
Dumbass.

168 JamesWI  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:38:41am
169 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:38:47am

re: #167 Reverend Mother Ramallo

Bobby needs to stop sampling the communion wine...
Dumbass.

He's drinking the holy water. A few glasses of communion wine may make him more sensible.

170 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:39:45am

re: #168 JamesWI

[Embedded content]

Oh, they'll spin Obama winning re-election as being good for Romney and bad for Obama somehow. Because that's what Fox News does, spin, distort, and repeat.

171 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:39:52am

DONALD DERP

172 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:41:15am

re: #154 Big Steve

Where did I use the term polite? Orderly? My comment is that had she done this act realizing that arrest was a possible outcome, then I would have respected it as genuine civil disobedience. However she clearly thought it was her right to deface the sign and she was shocked that she was arrested.

I generally agree with you on this one but she did expect to be arrested and announced her stunt in advance so the press would be there. Her reaction to being arrested was just part of the show. Just like the protesters who assault police and then chant " the whole world is watching" while being arrested as if they're baffled about what they did wrong. It's just part of the silly show.

173 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:41:48am

re: #167 Reverend Mother Ramallo

Now, now now. It's not communion wine. It's the exorcism sacramental wine. Stronger stuff. /

174 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:42:02am

re: #171 Sheila Broflovski

DONALD DERP

[Embedded content]

Reminds me of when Eastwood was busting on Obama for using Air Force One.

175 engineer cat  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:42:19am

Is this video racist?

quick, somebody submit it to yo, is this racist?

176 Lidane  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:42:21am

re: #159 Gus

How the fuck does marriage equality affect the Second Amendment?

That makes no sense at all.

177 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:42:51am

re: #172 Killgore Trout

I generally agree with you on this one but she did expect to be arrested and announced her stunt in advance so the press would be there. Her reaction to being arrested was just part of the show. Just like the protesters who assault police and then chant " the whole world is watching" while being arrested as if they're baffled about what they did wrong. It's just part of the silly show.

Yeah, just like the dogs and the fire hoses a few decades ago. A silly show.

178 elizajane  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:42:56am

re: #85 aagcobb

How badly did Mother Jones screw Romney with the 47% video? Just look at the graph of Nate Silver's Nowcast in his latest post. By 9/14 the DNC bounce had stopped growing, then as soon as the vidoe came out on 9/18, Obama's lead started growing again. It was the nail in Romney's coffin.

Remember, this was the revenge of Jimmy Carter's grandson for all the crap the Republicans, and especially Mitt, had said about his grandfather.

I hope I am still alive when one of Sasha or Malia's kids finds some extraordinary dirt on the party that relentlessly trashed both of his/her grandparents.

179 Someone Please Beam Me Up!  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:43:01am

re: #147 Charles Johnson

Right. You don't seriously believe the civil rights protests were all orderly and polite, do you?

Actually, they were -- it was part of the strategy for civil rights workers. Rudeness and disorders were introduced by the police (and counter-demonstrators, no pun intended).

180 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:43:02am

re: #161 Sheila Broflovski

I stopped bathing in the Fever Swamp after the 2008 election.

I watch them and a few others during election cycles.

"An entymologist is not a bug."
-Rexroth

181 jaunte  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:43:08am

re: #176 Lidane

On a sufficiently slippery slope, everything is connected.

182 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:44:45am

re: #181 jaunte

Slipperly slope lubed with weapons grade derp.

183 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:45:30am

WAIT, WHAT? HAVE I BEEN PWN3D AGAIN?

184 jaunte  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:45:33am

re: #177 wrenchwench

It is partly a show. Not a silly one, but necessary to bring more attention to this bigoted campaign than it would normally get.

185 Lidane  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:46:21am

re: #181 jaunte

On a sufficiently slippery slope, everything is connected.

Honestly, the only thing marriage equality will do is double the work opportunities for the wedding and travel industries and for divorce lawyers. I will never understand why it's an issue at all.

Two men, two women, one man and one woman -- who cares? As long as the people involved are of legal age, not related, freely consent, aren't being coerced, and are of the same species, why does it matter who someone chooses to love?

186 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:46:58am

re: #179 Someone Please Beam Me Up!

Actually, they were -- it was part of the strategy for civil rights workers. Rudeness and disorders were introduced by the police (and counter-demonstrators, no pun intended).

I suspect some harsh words may have been exchanged. Especially when the police dogs and firehoses came out.

187 jaunte  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:47:00am

re: #185 Lidane

It does seem like the usual boosters of small business would be all for it.

188 Big Steve  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:47:32am

re: #172 Killgore Trout

I generally agree with you on this one but she did expect to be arrested and announced her stunt in advance so the press would be there. Her reaction to being arrested was just part of the show. Just like the protesters who assault police and then chant " the whole world is watching" while being arrested as if they're baffled about what they did wrong. It's just part of the silly show.

I can buy all the outrage at her arrest as being faked for the cameras. However when she was spray painting the ad she clearly felt that it was her right to deface it. She mentioned it over and over and I believe she believed that to be true. I find that those who defend her miss this point and would seriously pissed if it was their work that had been vandalized. For example, I don't think any of us here would be happy if hacker were able to get on this site and delete it and we would want the person caught and punished

189 engineer cat  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:47:45am

re: #172 Killgore Trout

I generally agree with you on this one but she did expect to be arrested and announced her stunt in advance so the press would be there. Her reaction to being arrested was just part of the show. Just like the protesters who assault police and then chant " the whole world is watching" while being arrested as if they're baffled about what they did wrong. It's just part of the silly show.

civil disobedience is intended to be witnessed, that's the point

so, it is a kind of "show", but it definitely is not silly or pointless

190 Gus  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:47:46am

re: #171 Sheila Broflovski

DONALD DERP

[Embedded content]

Total Cost of All White House Elements, for fiscal year 2008: $1,592,875,254

191 Lidane  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:47:55am

re: #161 Sheila Broflovski

I stopped bathing in the Fever Swamp after the 2008 election.

I watch them for my own amusement. If the polls hold and Obama gets re-elected their reactions will be hilarious and scary in nearly equal measure.

192 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:48:09am

re: #185 Lidane

Honestly, the only thing marriage equality will do is double the work opportunities for the wedding and travel industries and for divorce lawyers. I will never understand why it's an issue at all.

Two men, two women, one man and one woman -- who cares? As long as the people involved are of legal age, not related, freely consent, aren't being coerced, and are of the same species, why does it matter who someone chooses to love?

It really is that simple. Too bad idiot Jindal is busy blathering that allowing gays to marry will somehow effect our right to bear arms.

193 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:49:29am

re: #191 Lidane

I watch them for my own amusement. If the polls hold and Obama gets re-elected their reactions will be hilarious and scary in nearly equal measure.

I'm beginning to think that the best they're gonna be able to say the day after the Election is something along the lines of "Well, he didn't beat Romney as badly as he beat McCain."

194 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:49:42am

re: #186 Charles Johnson

I suspect some harsh words may have been exchanged. Especially when the police dogs and firehoses came out.

But the leaders would see those as understandable lapses, at least in the early years. By the time Huey Newton and Stokely were in play, the rules had changed.

195 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:50:22am

re: #188 Big Steve

I can buy all the outrage at her arrest as being faked for the cameras. However when she was spray painting the ad she clearly felt that it was her right to deface it. She mentioned it over and over and I believe she believed that to be true. I find that those who defend her miss this point and would seriously pissed if it was their work that had been vandalized. For example, I don't think any of us here would be happy if hacker were able to get on this site and delete it and we would want the person caught and punished

Oh come the hell on, it was anti-Muslim propaganda she defaced not some fine artwork. Geller knows by putting her ads in places like San Francisco and NYC, that they're asking to get vandalized.

196 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:50:38am

re: #188 Big Steve

I can buy all the outrage at her arrest as being faked for the cameras. However when she was spray painting the ad she clearly felt that it was her right to deface it. She mentioned it over and over and I believe she believed that to be true. I find that those who defend her miss this point and would seriously pissed if it was their work that had been vandalized.

I have absolutely zero sympathy for Pamela Geller's "work" being vandalized, and I totally support this kind of civil disobedience. I'm really glad to see people pushing back against Geller and her vile campaigns of bigotry. It's long past time.

197 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:51:07am
198 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:52:10am

Imagine if the ads had been Anti-Jewish or Anti-Black? Really the only reason why Geller gets some sympathy is because Anti-Muslim bigotry is easier to get away with than the aforementioned.

199 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:52:40am

re: #188 Big Steve

I can buy all the outrage at her arrest as being faked for the cameras. However when she was spray painting the ad she clearly felt that it was her right to deface it. She mentioned it over and over and I believe she believed that to be true. I find that those who defend her miss this point and would seriously pissed if it was their work that had been vandalized. For example, I don't think any of us here would be happy if hacker were able to get on this site and delete it and we would want the person caught and punished

Agreed. Sadly I think many modern protesters have lost the meaning of civil disobedience, non violence and free speech. Of course the reaction would be different if the political affiliations in a stituation like this were reversed but you're unlikely to get anywhere using analogies in debate here. I've tried and it will go nowhere, they just won't accept any analogy.

200 aagcobb  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:53:17am

re: #110 Sheila Broflovski

I hope this is a parody and not a real story.

Report: Man Who Was 'Tortured' by the Prospect of Obama's Re-Election Kills Family, Self

Tragic. Real lives snuffed out, perhaps in part thanks to the outrageous rhetoric spewed by the Right Wing Noise Machine. Think any of them will lose a moment's sleep?

201 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:53:27am

re: #198 HappyWarrior

Imagine if the ads had been Anti-Jewish or Anti-Black? Really the only reason why Geller gets some sympathy is because Anti-Muslim bigotry is easier to get away with than the aforementioned.

And not only that, but allowing these anti-Muslim ads now paves the way for offensive anti-Jewish and anti-Black posters.

Slippery slope is slippery.

202 engineer cat  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:53:42am

re: #173 lawhawk

Now, now now. It's not communion wine. It's the exorcism sacramental wine. Stronger stuff. /

now i want some of that exorcism wine!

203 jaunte  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:53:52am

re: #199 Killgore Trout

I would probably disapprove of someone vandalizing love speech.

204 JamesWI  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:54:20am

Looks like that Republican voter fraud in Florida was more widespread than originally thought.

What first appeared to be an isolated problem in one Florida county has now spread statewide, with election officials in at least seven counties informing prosecutors or state election officials about questionable voter registration forms filled out on behalf of the Republican Party of Florida.

But remember, it's the Democrats who try to steal elections!

205 MittDoesNotCompute  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:55:26am

re: #16 Kragar

RNC Chair Reverses Course, Says Republican Party Will ‘Absolutely’ Support Todd Akin

Good job, Rinsed Prius...the fact that you, RNC Chairman, caved on supporting Akin after what he said tells me and everyone else who's paying attention that the RR/TPers truly do have total and complete control of the GOP.

206 Gus  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:55:34am

Page time!

207 aagcobb  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:55:57am

re: #195 HappyWarrior

Oh come the hell on, it was anti-Muslim propaganda she defaced not some fine artwork. Geller knows by putting her ads in places like San Francisco and NYC, that they're asking to get vandalized.

I'm sure she was counting on it. People like Geller and the Phelps clan deliberately provoke people to react so that they can portray themselves as victims.

208 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:56:13am

re: #201 Sheila Broflovski

The official MTA position is to go ahead and allow those advocacy ads, but to add a disclaimer to all, indicating that the MTA doesn't endorse the positions contained therein.

It's a better policy on free speech grounds - but it also means that free speech has to be met by free speech in the form of oppo ads. The prior policy was unsustainable on 1st amendment grounds.

It means that people will have to be more vigilant and identify those behind ad campaigns and to counter them.

209 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:56:20am

re: #199 Killgore Trout

Of course the reaction would be different if the political affiliations in a stituation like this were reversed but you're unlikely to get anywhere using analogies in debate here. I've tried and it will go nowhere, they just won't accept any analogy.

We're all just so stupid and terrible here, Killgore. It must be depressing for you to have to interact with such dunderheads.

If the situation was reversed, we could see an ad that said something like "In the choice between the righteous and the infidel, choose the righteous", with a big Iranian flag on it. I think that no one would be surprised if that got vandalized and most would excuse those who vandalize it.

And I like Banksy.

Image: news042811_17_0.jpg

210 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:56:25am

re: #188 Big Steve

I can buy all the outrage at her arrest as being faked for the cameras. However when she was spray painting the ad she clearly felt that it was her right to deface it. She mentioned it over and over and I believe she believed that to be true. I find that those who defend her miss this point and would seriously pissed if it was their work that had been vandalized. For example, I don't think any of us here would be happy if hacker were able to get on this site and delete it and we would want the person caught and punished

“I had more printed,” Ms. Geller said on Wednesday, “as I expected this.”

She's not pissed, she expected this. Why are you defending her work?

211 MittDoesNotCompute  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:57:46am

re: #27 aagcobb

Must of been part of that commie New Deal that's been destroying America. Wish we could use a man like Herbert Hoover again!

I'll bet that there are there's more than a few GOP "conservative" dinosaurs that blame FDR for many, if not all, of modern America's ills.

212 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:58:32am

re: #211 Gert Fröbe

I'll bet that there are there's more than a few GOP "conservative" dinosaurs that blame FDR for many, if not all, of modern America's ills.

And then there are those like Glenn Beck who feel Lincoln started it.

213 erik_t  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:58:32am

re: #203 jaunte

I would probably disapprove of someone vandalizing love speech.

A+, would upding again.

214 jaunte  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:58:51am

re: #210 wrenchwench

Geller wants to attract vandalism for the publicity, because she thinks if her ideas are publicized, she wins. Mona Eltahawy obviously thinks Pam will lose if more people see what she's doing.

215 engineer cat  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:59:19am

re: #203 jaunte

I would probably disapprove of someone vandalizing love speech.

yeah, exactly - the magic balance fairy argument here is equating vandalism of normal political expression with vandalism of hate speech. i mean, it ought to be pretty clear when somebody is promoting hate

on the other hand, vandalism of a regular political poster, whether posted by a campaign or some manifesto, let's say, posted by an individual, is also political speech, so, no, i would not call for punishment for defacing any political posters i might put up either - as a matter of fact, i would have to expect that somebody might very well object to what i had to say and want to express that, as i have experienced in real life when doing exactly this

216 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:59:31am

re: #212 HappyWarrior

And then there are those like Glenn Beck who feel Lincoln started it.

Lincoln was a Republican!1!ty

217 JamesWI  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 11:59:50am
218 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:00:20pm

re: #216 Sheila Broflovski

And a Marxist if you ask some of the hardcore paleocon neo-confeds.

219 aagcobb  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:00:23pm

re: #211 Gert Fröbe

I'll bet that there are there's more than a few GOP "conservative" dinosaurs that blame FDR for many, if not all, of modern America's ills.

There are a few they blame on LBJ, Woodrow Wilson and Abraham Lincoln.

220 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:01:28pm

re: #171 Sheila Broflovski

DONALD DERP

221 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:02:40pm

Or the various atheist billboards that say "God is a lie" or whatever it is, the stuff on the side of buses. I'm not surprised if people vandalize them. I'm not surprised when people vandalize blank walls, either, but especially stuff that's a direct attack.

I think the right to free speech is important, and I think it's proper to arrest people for defacing the signs of others. I think that people doing such a thing know they run the risk.

But there is a larger problem with the 'you paid for it, you get to have it in a public sphere' element of speech. One thing a lot of naive libertarians (or, as they embarrassedly sometimes call themselves today, classical liberals) pointedly overlook in talking about speech is the effect of money on speech. Money is a magnifier of speech. it is not the be all and end all, but the price for a lot of speech is set by the market, and most people can't afford to pay it. It's important to recognize there's some forms of speech only available to those with quite a bit of money to throw around. This is an example of that-- Gellar's organization (and probably her personally) has the money to buy ads like this. Most groups and individuals don't; this sort of speech isn't prohibited to them, but it's not realistically available, either. It's already restricted speech.

222 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:02:43pm

re: #199 Killgore Trout

Of course the reaction would be different if the political affiliations in a stituation like this were reversed but you're unlikely to get anywhere using analogies in debate here. I've tried and it will go nowhere, they just won't accept any analogy.

I usually don't accept hopelessly flawed analogies.

223 Big Steve  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:02:50pm

re: #210 wrenchwench

“I had more printed,” Ms. Geller said on Wednesday, “as I expected this.”

She's not pissed, she expected this. Why are you defending her work?

Please review and tell me where I once defended Geller? I was recently in a local election. I used my own money for my campaign...$3000 total. Half of this was for election signs. Several weeks before the election someone systematically went around town and spray painted all of my signs (other candidate's signs were untouched). I had to remove them all. I have absolutely zero sympathy or support for someone vandalizing others free speech rights. One may think that Geller deserves this and maybe so but I can tell you that no matter what someone publishes someone else will hate and you can never draw the boundary.

224 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:02:51pm

re: #214 jaunte

Geller wants to attract vandalism for the publicity, because she thinks if her ideas are publicized, she wins. Mona Eltahawy obviously thinks Pam will lose if more people see what she's doing.

Gandhi said non-violence only works when it meets a violent reaction. So how non-violent is it, really?

It all depends on where the majority of people come down on it. Mona making a statement as an Egyptian-American is powerful.

The show must go on, I guess. I sure hope Geller loses.

225 jaunte  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:03:01pm

re: #215 engineer cat

Republican billboard opposing third Roosevelt term vandalized, Windber PA, 1940:
[Link: www.shorpy.com...]

226 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:03:27pm

re: #199 Killgore Trout

Agreed. Sadly I think many modern protesters have lost the meaning of civil disobedience, non violence and free speech. Of course the reaction would be different if the political affiliations in a stituation like this were reversed but you're unlikely to get anywhere using analogies in debate here. I've tried and it will go nowhere, they just won't accept any analogy.

You'd get further if you hadn't over-focused on OWS. It made you seem obsessive and it cost you some with others on the blog.

227 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:05:36pm

re: #223 Big Steve

Please review and tell me where I once defended Geller? I was recently in a local election. I used my own money for my campaign...$3000 total. Half of this was for election signs. Several weeks before the election someone systematically went around town and spray painted all of my signs (other candidate's signs were untouched). I had to remove them all. I have absolutely zero sympathy or support for someone vandalizing others free speech rights. One may think that Geller deserves this and maybe so but I can tell you that no matter what someone publishes someone else will hate and you can never draw the boundary.

You are defending her posters (ie: her work, not her). You say her posters should not be vandalized. I don't think yours should have been, but I do think Geller's should.

228 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:06:33pm

re: #223 Big Steve

We do draw boundaries, though. We have a lot of speech that's criminalized, from simple pornography in a lot of places to volume regulation in most places, to laws against lying in certain ways about other people, etc. It's not true that we can't draw the boundary; we've already drawn a lot of boundaries with hate speech.

I don't want to prohibit Gellar's speech in general, but I do think that the MTA, as an agent of the public and the government, can and should limit the speech they allow advertised. I mean, I'm sure they'd already disallow hardcore porn from appearing; there are rules in place already.

229 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:07:06pm

re: #116 HappyWarrior

It is funny arguing cartoons with my kid brother who's come of age in this and last decade. He's convinced that people like myself who grew up in the 90's had no taste. His sub-generation gave us Fred Figgelhorn, and with that I would rest my case.

The best cartoons were all made before 1970. Before 1960, really.

230 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:07:44pm

re: #229 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

The best cartoons were all made before 1970. Before 1960, really.

Heh fair point but I am dealing with a kid who worships at the Church of Spongebob.

231 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:08:30pm

re: #229 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

The best cartoons were all made before 1970. Before 1960, really.

Ahem.

Image: sterling-archer-2.jpg

232 aagcobb  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:08:59pm

re: #228 Obdicut

I don't want to prohibit Gellar's speech in general, but I do think that the MTA, as an agent of the public and the government, can and should limit the speech they allow advertised. I mean, I'm sure they'd already disallow hardcore porn from appearing; there are rules in place already.

Its precisely because the MTA is an agent of the government that the speech it can limit is strictly proscribed. If it was a private enterprise it could tell Geller to piss off.

233 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:10:38pm

re: #229 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

The best cartoons were all made before 1970. Before 1960, really.

Bah!

234 Big Steve  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:11:03pm

re: #227 wrenchwench

nope....went back and re-read my posts.....clearly defending her right to put up obnoxious posters.....never once defended the content of the posters.

235 JamesWI  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:11:13pm

So apparently, Todd Akin just said that employers should be able to pay women less.

Thank science this guy stayed in the race. A gift that keeps on giving.

236 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:11:15pm

re: #233 Targetpractice

Bah!

Aww. (in best little girl voice)

237 Kragar  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:11:27pm

re: #229 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

The best cartoons were all made before 1970. Before 1960, really.

Have you learned nothing from Invader Zim and Venture Brothers?

238 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:11:46pm

re: #215 engineer cat

yeah, exactly - the magic balance fairy argument here is equating vandalism of normal political expression with vandalism of hate speech. i mean, it ought to be pretty clear when somebody is promoting hate

on the other hand, vandalism of a regular political poster, whether posted by a campaign or some manifesto, let's say, posted by an individual, is also political speech, so, no, i would not call for punishment for defacing any political posters i might put up either - as a matter of fact, i would have to expect that somebody might very well object to what i had to say and want to express that, as i have experienced in real life when doing exactly this

There was a link yesterday to a women's Obama lawn posters being covered and defaced with racist statements.

It's pretty clear here that the opinions expressed are more nuanced than a simple "all vandalism is evil and should be condemned by default" and that the message being delivered (and the method by which it is being delivered) also are a factor. There is an understanding of the concepts of civil disobedience, and also that the capabilities of response vary as well. (For instance, should we be expecting Mona to have purchased an opposing set of MTA ads?)

239 erik_t  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:12:16pm

re: #231 Obdicut

Ahem.

Image: sterling-archer-2.jpg

Look at his little spots!

240 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:12:27pm

re: #234 Big Steve

nope....went back and re-read my posts.....clearly defending her right to put up obnoxious posters.....never once defended the content of the posters.

You say they should not be defaced. I see you in the same position as Pamela Hall, standing in front of them, defending them from defacement.

241 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:12:30pm

re: #237 Kragar

Have you learned nothing from Invader Zim and Venture Brothers?

Doom!

242 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:12:41pm

re: #232 aagcobb

Its precisely because the MTA is an agent of the government that the speech it can limit is strictly proscribed. If it was a private enterprise it could tell Geller to piss off.

I dunno. As an agent of the government, it's got to make sure that nobody is discriminated against. Virulent anti-Muslim ads could certainly have an effect like that. It's basically an ad that says that there's a war between Muslims and Jews and we need to take the Jewish side.

I dunno. It's a tricky situation, where it's hard to craft a good rule. I'd rather err on the side of letting them get shown, with the disclaimer, but I also don't think we need to wear the police force out chasing down people who vandalize them.

243 kirkspencer  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:12:43pm

re: #229 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

The best cartoons were all made before 1970. Before 1960, really.

No, I have to disagree. There have been some outstanding cartoons since then. As a short example list.

Spongebob. Rocko. The first season of Rugrats. Phineas and Ferb..

And in counterpoint there were more than a few bombs back in the past. Just as a start, I refuse to call any of the following good: Clutch Cargo, Punkin and Puss, Squiddly Diddly.

244 MittDoesNotCompute  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:12:43pm

re: #236 HappyWarrior

Aww. (in best little girl voice)

Go on, just admit it...you're a brony, right?

/

245 Big Steve  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:13:10pm

re: #228 Obdicut

We do draw boundaries, though. We have a lot of speech that's criminalized, from simple pornography in a lot of places to volume regulation in most places, to laws against lying in certain ways about other people, etc. It's not true that we can't draw the boundary; we've already drawn a lot of boundaries with hate speech.

I don't want to prohibit Gellar's speech in general, but I do think that the MTA, as an agent of the public and the government, can and should limit the speech they allow advertised. I mean, I'm sure they'd already disallow hardcore porn from appearing; there are rules in place already.

Well there are rules......the Supreme Court has ruled on it. Political speech is allowed, even assholes like the KKK.....photos of beautiful human body parts, apparently not.

246 BongCrodny  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:13:26pm

re: #237 Kragar

Have you learned nothing from Invader Zim and Venture Brothers?

I thought Samurai Jack and Courage, the Cowardly Dog were pretty cool.

247 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:13:50pm

Just so it's clear. Geller has the right to have those ads but at the same time, she has to and I think does know that she's asking for them to get defaced by placing them in environments that aren't exactly hospitable to her message. So, that's why my sympathy for her is nil and I don't see her being akin to the person who puts up some ad in good faith. She's looking for a provocative reaction and she got it when what happened occurred.

248 erik_t  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:13:52pm

re: #244 Gert Fröbe

re: #236 HappyWarrior

Go on, just admit it...you're a brony, right?

Bronies are... weird..., but you can't deny this little guy's cuteness.

249 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:14:02pm

re: #240 wrenchwench

You say they should not be defaced. I see you in the same position as Pamela Hall, standing in front of them, defending them from defacement.

I think ideally they shouldn't be defaced either. But I wouldn't assault someone to stop them from doing it. There's few things stupider than causing a bigger crime to stop a smaller one.

250 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:14:17pm

re: #231 Obdicut

She's not bad. She's just drawn that way.

251 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:14:34pm

re: #245 Big Steve

Well there are rules......the Supreme Court has ruled on it. Political speech is allowed, even assholes like the KKK.....photos of beautiful human body parts, apparently not.

I'm just pointing out that we do have boundaries already. Unless you're against all censorship of any kind, that is.

252 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:14:46pm

re: #246 BongCrodny

I thought Samurai Jack and Courage, the Cowardly Dog were pretty cool.

Stupid dog! You make me look bad!

//

253 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:14:49pm

re: #244 Gert Fröbe

Go on, just admit it...you're a brony, right?

/

Hahaha, no.

254 Kragar  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:14:55pm

re: #241 Targetpractice

Doom!

"Children, your performance was miserable. Your parents will all receive phone calls instructing them to love you less now."

255 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:15:05pm

re: #229 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

The best cartoons were all made before 1970. Before 1960, really.

while I am a huge fan of Bugs Bunny, Droopy Dog, Tom And Jerry and all the classics (with the exceptions of The Flintstones, The Jetson's, and popeye) I have to say there are some great cartoons out there, some no longer on but here's my short list:

Ren and Stimpy
Cow and Chicken
Animaniacs
Pinky and the Brain
Spongebob Squarepants
Fairly Odd Parents

and that's just to name a few.

256 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:15:43pm

Simpsons, South Park, Family Guy, the TV funhouse cartoons on SNL are some of my favorite bits of satire.

257 erik_t  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:16:10pm

re: #255 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

while I am a huge fan of Bugs Bunny, Droopy Dog, Tom And Jerry and all the classics (with the exceptions of The Flintstones, The Jetson's, and popeye) I have to say there are some great cartoons out there, some no longer on but here's my short list:

YOUR INCOMPLETE LIST IS BAD AND YOU SHOULD FEED BAD

(V)(;,,;)(V)

258 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:16:28pm

re: #249 Obdicut

I think ideally they shouldn't be defaced either. But I wouldn't assault someone to stop them from doing it. There's few things stupider than causing a bigger crime to stop a smaller one.

When I think of a better way to campaign against Geller's hate speech, I'll agree with your first sentence. I already agree with the second and third.

259 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:16:40pm

re: #257 erik_t

YOUR INCOMPLETE LIST IS BAD AND YOU SHOULD FEED BAD

(V)(;,,;)(V)

Good news, everyone!

260 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:16:48pm

Only at LGF folks can we have a conversation about free speech and bronys. That's awesome.

261 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:17:29pm

re: #260 HappyWarrior

Only at LGF folks can we have a conversation about free speech and bronys. That's awesome.

LGF has always seemed to be a magnet for weirdos.

262 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:17:47pm

re: #249 Obdicut

I think ideally they shouldn't be defaced either. But I wouldn't assault someone to stop them from doing it. There's few things stupider than causing a bigger crime to stop a smaller one.

Setting aside the ethics and legalities, I don't think it was a very good tactic. Geller wanted it, and the resulting video looked lame/silly. She should have left it alone or blitzed the whole wall and defender. Pink paint?

263 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:17:47pm

re: #260 HappyWarrior

Only at LGF folks can we have a conversation about free speech and bronys. That's awesome.

I have a nephew who is a self-described brony. I would like to understand better what that means.

264 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:17:52pm

re: #261 Targetpractice

LGF has always seems to be a magnet for weirdos.

Haha.

265 Kragar  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:18:03pm

re: #259 Targetpractice

Good news, everyone!

Zim: Shut your noise tube, Taco Human!

266 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:18:05pm

re: #233 Targetpractice

Bah!

SMACK!

267 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:18:19pm

re: #263 wrenchwench

I have a nephew who is a self-described brony. I would like to understand better what that means.

Male fans of the My Little Pony toys and series.

268 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:18:43pm

re: #267 HappyWarrior

Male fans of the My Little Pony toys and series.

The new series, not the old stuff. I have my limits!

269 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:18:46pm

re: #267 HappyWarrior

Male fans of the My Little Pony toys and series.

That's it?

OK.

270 jamesfirecat  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:18:57pm

re: #267 HappyWarrior

Male fans of the My Little Pony toys and series.

The 4th Generation version (Friendship is Magic) created by Lauren Faust in particular.

271 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:19:07pm

re: #258 wrenchwench

When I think of a better way to campaign against Geller's hate speech, I'll agree with your first sentence. I already agree with the second and third.

I don't think that her hate speech is that effective. I think that taking out an ad from an interfaith council saying basically "There are 1.2 billion Muslims in the world. If they actually tended towards war and terrorism and violence, we'd be in the largest battle the world has ever seen. They're just like you and me."

But I don't think that her crude little signs are going to do anything but make a lot of New York Jews feel really uncomfortable when they're in the car with them. I know I will be if it happens to me.

272 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:19:21pm

re: #269 wrenchwench

That's it?

OK.

I'm not sure. I don't even remember the original series and toys.

273 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:20:16pm

re: #269 wrenchwench

That's it?

OK.

No, it's worse.

Image: Brony4_Vendor.jpg

Image: bronies.jpg

274 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:20:44pm

re: #273 Obdicut

No, it's worse.

Image: Brony4_Vendor.jpg

Image: bronies.jpg

There's weirdos in every fandom.

275 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:20:54pm

re: #226 Dark_Falcon

You'd get further if you hadn't over-focused on OWS. It made you seem obsessive and it cost you some with others on the blog.

It would have made no difference. It was just an indication of fundamental philosophical differences that would have been a problem regardless. I also didn't support taking Linbaugh off the air, Getting that chick from Komen fired, denying business permits to Chick Fil A franchises, etc. It's a fundamental difference of opinion.

276 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:21:22pm

re: #199 Killgore Trout

Agreed. Sadly I think many modern protesters have lost the meaning of civil disobedience, non violence and free speech. Of course the reaction would be different if the political affiliations in a stituation like this were reversed but you're unlikely to get anywhere using analogies in debate here. I've tried and it will go nowhere, they just won't accept any analogy.

Give a useful analogy, something that makes sense, and it will be accepted.
My guess is, you wouldn't have lasted a day protesting Civil Rights in the 50's and 60's.
I used to give you the benefit of the doubt,: maybe you were playing Devil's Advocate or something.
No more.

277 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:21:45pm

re: #273 Obdicut

No, it's worse.

Image: Brony4_Vendor.jpg

Image: bronies.jpg

Second pic, the guy on the left, that could be my nephew...

278 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:22:03pm

re: #237 Kragar

Have you learned nothing from Invader Zim and Venture Brothers?

Those are fine and good, but there's a very good reason that you almost certainly have an innate understanding of what specific tune I'm talkinging about when I tell you to imagine cartoon factory assembly line music.

279 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:22:22pm

Brain: Pinky, our plan tonight is to create a highly competitive Presidential campaign. And while the ignorant masses are debating the contest on blogs and on-line opinion polls we enter Washington and seize power.

Pinky: But Brain, the one candidate is a complete wet fish. How can we make him look competitive?

Brain: Simple Pinky. We adjust polling bias in his favor. And unleash our secret weapon; Fox and Friends.

Pinky: Brain, that's brilliant? Narf!

Brain: Yes Pinky. Are you pondering what I am pondering?

Pinky: I think so Brain. How are we going to get Clint Eastwood to speak to an empty chair at the Republican Convention?

//

280 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:22:35pm

re: #275 Killgore Trout

It would have made no difference. It was just an indication of fundamental philosophical differences that would have been a problem regardless. I also didn't support taking Linbaugh off the air, Getting that chick from Komen fired, denying business permits to Chick Fil A franchises, etc. It's a fundamental difference of opinion.

Very few of those things are actually related. Two of them are actually examples of you hypocritically being against free speech-- or just not actually thinking the subject through. An attempt to communicate to advertisers of Limbaugh that he taints brands he's associated with is free speech-- you're against that. People writing to or communicating to Komen that as long as they pursue an anti-choice agenda and hire anti-choice people they won't get funding-- also free speech, which you're against.

It's not really your position, it's the hypocrisy and logical failures of your position that gets you mocked so much, you know.

281 Kragar  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:23:26pm

re: #278 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

Those are fine and good, but there's a very good reason that you almost certainly have an innate understanding of what specific tune I'm talkinging about when I tell you to imagine cartoon factory assembly line music.

282 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:23:39pm

re: #246 BongCrodny

I thought Samurai Jack and Courage, the Cowardly Dog were pretty cool.

Ended too soon.
:(

283 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:23:59pm

re: #281 Kragar

[Embedded content]

From Hell's heart, I stab at thee!

/

284 jamesfirecat  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:25:03pm

re: #273 Obdicut

No, it's worse.

Image: Brony4_Vendor.jpg

Image: bronies.jpg

Hey you can be a brony without needing to cosplay/invest in so much merch that you have no idea where to put it all. Same way you can be a fan of Starwars without needing to claim the prequels ruined your childhood and create hour plus long videos laying out every single detail why....

285 MittDoesNotCompute  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:25:54pm

re: #261 Targetpractice

LGF has always seemed to be a magnet for weirdos.

Sez you!

/

286 erik_t  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:26:22pm

re: #284 jamesfirecat

Same way you can be a fan of Starwars without needing to claim the prequels ruined your childhood

This statement is false.

/

287 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:26:41pm

re: #284 jamesfirecat

No, every single Brony fan owns elaborate pony costumes and a pony-shaped bed and they all eat out of feedbags and they like it when you jump on their backs and ride them even if they scream that's just them 'whinnying' just hit 'em with the riding crop make sure you pick a sturdy one but don't be deceived, fat is not muscle.

288 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:27:15pm

re: #284 jamesfirecat

Hey you can be a brony without needing to cosplay/invest in so much merch that you have no idea where to put it all. Same way you can be a fan of Starwars without needing to claim the prequels ruined your childhood and create hour plus long videos laying out every single detail why....

One word: Midichlorians.

289 Kragar  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:27:52pm

Todd Akin Suggests Employers Should Be Able To Pay Women Less

AUDIENCE MEMBER: You voted against the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act. Why do you think it is okay for a woman to be paid less for doing the same work as a man?

AKIN: Well, first of all, the premise of your question is that I'm making that particular distinction. I believe in free enterprise. I don't think the government should be telling people what you pay and what you don't pay. I think it's about freedom. If someone what’s to hire somebody and they agree on a salary, that's fine, however it wants to work. So, the government sticking its nose into all kinds of things has gotten us into huge trouble.

290 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:28:03pm

re: #284 jamesfirecat

Also, the prequels are only marginally worse than the originals. Empire Strikes Back is the only truly good film in the sequence. Star Wars is good as the first of its kind to do stuff like that, but it's pretty dumb in a lot of places too.

I actually think KOTOR and KOTOR II are the best examples of the Star Wars universe.

291 jaunte  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:28:25pm

re: #286 erik_t

Meesa tend to agree.

292 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:28:33pm

re: #289 Kragar

Todd Akin Suggests Employers Should Be Able To Pay Women Less

I wonder if he thinks it's acceptable for a company to pay a man less because he's a man.

293 kirkspencer  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:29:02pm

re: #284 jamesfirecat

Hey you can be a brony without needing to cosplay/invest in so much merch that you have no idea where to put it all. Same way you can be a fan of Starwars without needing to claim the prequels ruined your childhood and create hour plus long videos laying out every single detail why....

heh. and meh. Rather than telling why the prequels ruined your childhood, watch them in an intelligent order. (Called the machete order.)

IV, V, II, III, VI. I belongs in the same viewing folder as the cartoon and the Christmas specials - non-canon spinoffs.

It works, by the way, because II and III demonstrate that yes he IS Darth's son because he's following the same general path. Then VI redeems all of both threads.

And JarJar becomes a one-off background character like the canteen dancers, there are no midichlorians, there's no really weird near-pedophilic love story, ...

294 erik_t  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:29:08pm

re: #290 Obdicut

Also, the prequels are only marginally worse than the originals. Empire Strikes Back is the only truly good film in the sequence. Star Wars is good as the first of its kind to do stuff like that, but it's pretty dumb in a lot of places too.

!!!

!!!!!!!!

[ANGRILY SPRAY-PAINTS OBDICUT'S FACE]

295 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:29:15pm

Star Wars the Clone Wars isn't bad.
The cartoon is by far better than all of the prequels.

296 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:29:41pm

Okay confession time and I totally expect to be ridiculed for this but I've never seen any of the Star Wars movies fully and from what I have seen hasn't caught my interest. And no I did not grow up under a rock and nor were my parents very strict. Just never been into that genre.

297 erik_t  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:30:01pm

re: #293 kirkspencer

I belongs in the same viewing folder as the cartoon and the Christmas specials - non-canon spinoffs.

Obligatory XKCD link goes here

298 Kragar  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:30:25pm

re: #296 HappyWarrior

Okay confession time and I totally expect to be ridiculed for this but I've never seen any of the Star Wars movies fully. And no I did not grow up under a rock and nor were my parents very strict. Just never been into that genre.

299 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:30:26pm

re: #296 HappyWarrior

Okay confession time and I totally expect to be ridiculed for this but I've never seen any of the Star Wars movies fully. And no I did not grow up under a rock and nor were my parents very strict. Just never been into that genre.

Well hell, since we've reached the confession point of the show, I've never seen Blade Runner.

300 BongCrodny  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:31:25pm

re: #290 Obdicut

Also, the prequels are only marginally worse than the originals. Empire Strikes Back is the only truly good film in the sequence. Star Wars is good as the first of its kind to do stuff like that, but it's pretty dumb in a lot of places too.

I actually think KOTOR and KOTOR II are the best examples of the Star Wars universe.

All I can tell you about Star Wars is that I took a hike when the teddy bears showed up.

301 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:31:45pm

re: #292 HappyWarrior

I wonder if he thinks it's acceptable for a company to pay a man less because he's a man.

Depends on what color the man is of course.
////

302 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:31:49pm

re: #300 BongCrodny

All I can tell you about Star Wars is that I took a hike when the teddy bears showed up.

Ask Kragar about what became of them after the third movie ended.

303 sauceruney  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:32:02pm

Now I have the banana phone song stuck in my head. Thanks for that.

The outrageous outrage from people who hate to see their tax dollars being "redistributed" really makes me Hulk-angry I can't put them inside a Total Perspective Vortex #HHGTTG

304 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:32:09pm

re: #299 Targetpractice

Well hell, since we've reached the confession point of the show, I've never seen Blade Runner.

Good movie.
Boring as hell though.

305 Kragar  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:32:12pm

re: #299 Targetpractice

Well hell, since we've reached the confession point of the show, I've never seen Blade Runner.

306 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:32:36pm

re: #293 kirkspencer

I'd throw the Clone Wars CGI cartoons into the mix - they're far better than the prequels in developing characters and actually advance the story of the Clone Wars.

IV, V, II, Clone Wars, III, and skip I altogether.

307 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:32:47pm

re: #305 Kragar

[Embedded content]

It's on my to-do list.

308 Kragar  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:33:01pm

re: #302 Targetpractice

Ask Kragar about what became of them after the third movie ended.

"What happens when you detonate a spherical metal honeycomb over five hundred miles wide just above the atmosphere of a habitable world? Regardless of specifics, the world won't remain habitable for long."

309 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:33:28pm

re: #293 kirkspencer

VI is pretty bad. Ewoks fuck up a lot of stuff.

A) Ewoks are kind of evil, since they're ready to do human sacrifice at a moment's notice in some sort of religious fervoer.

B) Ewoks fuck up the narrative of the big bad Empire, because the Empire can't even handle midget hamster-people with rocks and sticks. The scene where the Ewoks are lightly touching the Stormtroopers with branches over and over and it's just beating them down is hilarious in a bad way.

And the plan to rescue Han was ridiculously convoluted and nearly failed. The heroes really weren't very good at being heroes.

310 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:33:35pm

Looks like researchok finally got under Destro's skin just as far as Destro got under reasearchok's skin. He's having a ding-fling.

311 erik_t  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:33:53pm

re: #308 Kragar

"What happens when you detonate a spherical metal honeycomb over five hundred miles wide just above the atmosphere of a habitable world? Regardless of specifics, the world won't remain habitable for long."

Cuteness shields: apparently applicable across many genres.

312 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:34:43pm

re: #310 wrenchwench

Looks like researchok finally got under Destro's skin just as far as Destro got under reasearchok's skin. He's having a ding-fling.

Destro thinks that it was okay for the US to cover up Katyn because the USSR was our ally, and Researchok used to tout that bullshit culture of guilt/culture of shame claptrap. I think it's a fair ding-fling.

313 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:35:00pm

re: #299 Targetpractice

Seize him!!!!! /

Seriously? Definitely get yourself a copy of the Director's cut. It's a great flick and dovetails nicely into the dystopian future envisioned by Scott.

314 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:35:11pm

re: #311 erik_t

Cuteness shields: apparently applicable across many genres.

And Luke prevented the Ewoks from eating after midnight. Which prevented the TRUE EWOK from emerging from the harmless looking larval stage.

315 steve_davis  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:35:29pm

re: #11 erik_t

Perhaps one could construct a string-phone with two cans and a bootstrap.

Already been done. It's called Altell.

316 Kragar  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:36:07pm

re: #311 erik_t

Cuteness shields: apparently applicable across many genres.

In the grim darkness of the far future, there is no cuteness...

Image: hello-kitty-warhammer-40k-dreadnought.jpg

OK, there is very little cuteness.

317 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:36:26pm

re: #312 Obdicut

Destro thinks that it was okay for the US to cover up Katyn because the USSR was our ally, and Researchok used to tout that bullshit culture of guilt/culture of shame claptrap. I think it's a fair ding-fling.

Yup. I'm glad they keep it in the Pages for the most part.

318 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:36:31pm

re: #313 lawhawk

Seize him!!!!! /

Seriously? Definitely get yourself a copy of the Director's cut. It's a great flick and dovetails nicely into the dystopian future envisioned by Scott.

It was sorta before my time and by the time I really started becoming a scifi geek, I was hooked on Trek.

319 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:37:06pm

re: #316 Kragar

In the grim darkness of the far future, there is no cuteness...

Image: hello-kitty-warhammer-40k-dreadnought.jpg

OK, there is very little cuteness.

Do you die of shame getting overrun by one of those?

320 Kragar  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:37:50pm

re: #318 Targetpractice

It was sorta before my time and by the time I really started becoming a scifi geek, I was hooked on Trek.

Which means as far a drug use analogies go, you're huffing paint from a paper bag.

321 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:37:52pm

re: #316 Kragar

In the grim darkness of the far future, there is no cuteness...

Image: hello-kitty-warhammer-40k-dreadnought.jpg

OK, there is very little cuteness.

Cute like a pink .38 snubnose.

322 Kragar  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:38:12pm

re: #319 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Do you die of shame getting overrun by one of those?

Never dealt with that personally.

323 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:38:24pm

re: #309 Obdicut

I've read in several places that the original idea was to have Wookies instead of Ewoks but costs would have been prohibitive. It would have fit in with the idea that Wookies were an enslaved race building the Death Star and that the rebels helped liberate the Wookies (who would then be in a position to kill the stormtroopers in revenge). Probably got too dark, so Lucas went cuddly. Then, Lucas then did the whole set piece on Kasykk with the Wookies so there's probably something to the notion of wookies having a place in RotJ.

324 Someone Please Beam Me Up!  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:38:53pm

re: #186 Charles Johnson

I suspect some harsh words may have been exchanged. Especially when the police dogs and firehoses came out.

Could be. But people were instructed, when sitting in at lunch counters, to keep cool and polite even when they had scalding coffee poured down their necks, to smile and ignore it when people got in their faces in all sorts of ways (and I can testify to the second, I was there). And when the dogs and hoses came out, the police and the demonstrators weren't close enough to exchange much of anything verbally.

325 DisturbedEma  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:41:03pm

re: #309 Obdicut


Agreed

326 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:41:15pm

re: #321 Reverend Mother Ramallo

Cute like a pink .38 snubnose.

How 'bout something with a bit more kick?

327 Gus  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:41:17pm

re: #171 Sheila Broflovski

DONALD DERP

[Embedded content]

Paged:

About That 'Taxpayers Spent $1.4 Billion on Obama Family Last Year' Outrage

328 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:41:30pm

BBL.
Nerds.

329 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:41:43pm

re: #291 jaunte

Meesa tend to agree.

Sorry, automatic downding for talking like the Gungan Abomination.

330 Kragar  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:42:39pm

Hagee: Fasting and Prayer Ended the Civil War

Glenn Beck recently sat down with John Hagee, whom Beck called "a prophet of our times," to discuss the importance of prayer regarding the upcoming election, which both Beck and Hagee agreed was the most important election since the Civil War.

Not coincidentally, Hagee noted, it was Abraham Lincoln's declaration of a national day of fasting and prayer that was responsible for bringing that war to an end:

We'd like to point out that Lincoln issued this declaration on March 30, 1863 and Lee did not have "the grace to surrender" for another two years, until April 9, 1865.

331 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:43:33pm

re: #330 Kragar

Hagee: Fasting and Prayer Ended the Civil War

Also, shooting lots of people. Lots and lots of people. And burning down large portions of the South.

332 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:44:03pm

re: #320 Kragar

Which means as far a drug use analogies go, you're huffing paint from a paper bag.

Everybody has their drug of choice. Not that I haven't branched out. Got some good shit coming next week, assuming my check ever clears so I can reserve a copy.

333 Lidane  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:44:18pm

re: #255 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Ren & Stimpy didn't hold up over time as well as the others. At least IMO.

Personally, I'm a fan of Regular Show and Metalocalypse these days. They're fun.

334 Kragar  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:44:34pm

re: #331 Obdicut

Also, shooting lots of people. Lots and lots of people. And burning down large portions of the South.

Sherman deciding he wanted to spend a few days at the beach probably had more to do with it than prayers.

335 Lidane  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:47:10pm

re: #289 Kragar

Todd Akin Suggests Employers Should Be Able To Pay Women Less

Taken further, he's also saying that racist employers could pay minority workers less. Bigots could pay Catholic or Muslim or Jewish or atheist employees less. Etc.

What a miserable excuse for a human being, but he's still just saying what the GOP really thinks out loud.

336 Kragar  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:47:40pm

BTW, played the XCOM demo.

AWESOME!

The first "mission" is more of a tutorial, learn the keys, movement, etc, very scripted, but that is to be expected. In the second mission, you have a lot more control. It its turned based tactical, but they took a page out of the Fallout series VATS system, where as your squad runs and engages the enemies, it will switch to a cinematic view of them kicking in doors, tossing grenades, taking cover, etc.

337 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:48:52pm

re: #336 Kragar

BTW, played the XCOM demo.

AWESOME!

The first "mission" is more of a tutorial, learn the keys, movement, etc, very scripted, but that is to be expected. In the second mission, you have a lot more control. It its turned based tactical, but they took a page out of the Fallout series VATS system, where as your squad runs and engages the enemies, it will switch to a cinematic view of them kicking in doors, tossing grenades, taking cover, etc.

Yeah, speaking of Fallout, I was just thinking today that there's gonna be die-hard fans of the first two games who are gonna see XCOM and scream "That's what Fallout 3 should have looked like, Bethesda!"

338 erik_t  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:49:00pm

re: #331 Obdicut

Also, shooting lots of people. Lots and lots of people. And burning down large portions of the South.

Thank goodness nobody in the South ever thought to pray right back at us.

/

339 SpaceJesus  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:49:34pm

re: #289 Kragar

Agreed. Let's bring back child labor while we're at it. Stupid government.

340 Lidane  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:51:32pm

re: #303 chris joseph

Now I have the banana phone song stuck in my head. Thanks for that.

[Link: procatinator.com...]

341 danarchy  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:52:08pm

re: #133 wrenchwench

Also, she said the arresting officers were sympathetic. Who said she harangued them?

As she was being arrested she said something like. "look america, this is what happens to a peaceful protester in 2012!" As if the cops were doing something wrong.

342 Kragar  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:53:32pm

re: #337 Targetpractice

Yeah, speaking of Fallout, I was just thinking today that there's gonna be die-hard fans of the first two games who are gonna see XCOM and scream "That's what Fallout 3 should have looked like, Bethesda!"

Yeah pretty much.

They also implemented a mission reward/loss system. Players have only so many teams operation, so they won't be able to respond to every incident. Every mission has different rewards. In the demo, you could choose to rescue some scientists or defend civilians for a cash reward. Which ever mission you decide to skip, the "panic" rating for that region builds up and once you reach a certain point, they pull out of XCOM and you loose all the backing they were providing.

343 Gus  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:55:25pm

Fox News just aired someone committing suicide.

344 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:55:28pm

re: #342 Kragar

Yeah pretty much.

They also implemented a mission reward/loss system. Players have only so many teams operation, so they won't be able to respond to every incident. Every mission has different rewards. In the demo, you could choose to rescue some scientists or defend civilians for a cash reward. Which ever mission you decide to skip, the "panic" rating for that region builds up and once you reach a certain point, they pull out of XCOM and you loose all the backing they were providing.

So it's ye olde juggling act, deciding which gain you want at one time knowing that you're weighing it against a gain you're going to have to pass up later.

345 Gus  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:55:36pm
346 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:55:43pm

re: #343 Gus

Fox News just aired someone committing suicide.

Bwah?

347 Kragar  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:55:55pm

re: #339 SpaceJesus

Agreed. Let's bring back child labor while we're at it. Stupid government.

Newt Gingrich: Child Labor Laws Are 'Stupid'

Sarah Palin Claims Child Labor Laws Are Causing America To Fail

348 Lidane  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:56:39pm

re: #343 Gus

Fox News just aired someone committing suicide.

Really? Wow. You'd think they would have cut away when the gun came out.

349 Gus  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:56:50pm

re: #346 Targetpractice

Bwah?

Car chase. He's running away and finally stops amidst some shrubs, puts the gun against his right temple, and fires the handgun. Falls forward to the ground.

350 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:58:43pm

re: #349 Gus

Car chase. He's running away and finally stops amidst some shrubs, puts the gun against his right temple, and fires the handgun. Falls forward to the ground.

The dark humor part of my brain just remarked that that's more realism than anything you'll see on "reality TV."

351 Kragar  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:58:48pm

re: #345 Gus

[Embedded content]

Well, it did happen pretty fast, but they should never show those kinds of chases live.

352 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:59:18pm

re: #292 HappyWarrior

I wonder if he thinks it's acceptable for a company to pay a man less because he's a man.

Or to refuse to hire men at all because they're more expensive.

353 Lidane  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 12:59:47pm

re: #347 Kragar

Newt Gingrich: Child Labor Laws Are 'Stupid'

Sarah Palin Claims Child Labor Laws Are Causing America To Fail

America is failing because we can't send 8-year olds into the factories! Eleventy!

These morons DO realize this isn't the 19th Century anymore, right?

354 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 1:00:48pm

re: #309 Obdicut

VI is pretty bad. Ewoks fuck up a lot of stuff.

A) Ewoks are kind of evil, since they're ready to do human sacrifice at a moment's notice in some sort of religious fervoer.

B) Ewoks fuck up the narrative of the big bad Empire, because the Empire can't even handle midget hamster-people with rocks and sticks. The scene where the Ewoks are lightly touching the Stormtroopers with branches over and over and it's just beating them down is hilarious in a bad way.

And the plan to rescue Han was ridiculously convoluted and nearly failed. The heroes really weren't very good at being heroes.

Agreed about the Ewoks. But there seems to have been a desire for "plucky natives beat tech-advanced invaders". The problem with that in a movie is that such victories are normally asymmetric in nature, and thus too long in duration to put in as modest part of a movie. So Lucas decided to just jettison reality entirely.

355 Kragar  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 1:01:12pm

re: #348 Lidane

Really? Wow. You'd think they would have cut away when the gun came out.

To be fair, it was really hard to make out the gun that quickly.

356 erik_t  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 1:01:45pm

re: #351 Kragar

Well, it did happen pretty fast, but they should never show those kinds of chases live.

But it's "news"!

357 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 1:03:34pm

re: #354 Dark_Falcon

Agreed about the Ewoks. But there seems to have been a desire for "plucky natives beat tech-advanced invaders". The problem with that in a movie is that such victories are normally asymmetric in nature, and thus too long in duration to put in as modest part of a movie. So Lucas decided to just jettison reality entirely.

I kinda thought that obvious in the first film when space fighters were flying around like WWII warplanes.

358 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 1:04:58pm

re: #327 Gus

What's lost on Trump and others repeating his claim is that Congress approves the appropriations on WH expenses. These figures aren't created out of thin air.

359 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 1:05:07pm

re: #357 Targetpractice

I kinda thought that obvious in the first film when space fighters were flying around like WWII warplanes.

Lucas made up for that with a WWII film where the airplanes acted like space fighters.
;)

360 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 1:05:57pm

re: #348 Lidane

Really? Wow. You'd think they would have cut away when the gun came out.

They tried, and didn't cut in time. If you click on the link you get two vids. The second one is Sheppard Smith explaining what went wrong, apologizing for what was shown, and promising it would never happen again on his watch.

361 aagcobb  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 1:05:57pm

re: #242 Obdicut

I dunno. As an agent of the government, it's got to make sure that nobody is discriminated against. Virulent anti-Muslim ads could certainly have an effect like that. It's basically an ad that says that there's a war between Muslims and Jews and we need to take the Jewish side.

I dunno. It's a tricky situation, where it's hard to craft a good rule. I'd rather err on the side of letting them get shown, with the disclaimer, but I also don't think we need to wear the police force out chasing down people who vandalize them.

I agree that the cops have no duty to go to extraordinary lengths to catch vandals defacing the posters. I think in the case at hand the vandal wanted to be caught.

362 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 1:08:36pm

re: #343 Gus

it's a sad state of affairs when I saw that and the first thing that came to mind is "figures".

363 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 1:09:37pm

re: #355 Kragar

To be fair, it was really hard to make out the gun that quickly.

On this particular matter, especially given the fact that its a non-political matter covered by the thoroughly professional Sheppard Smith, I'm inclined to accept his explanation for what happened and accept his apology. This was a TV News type of problem, not the sort of problems specific to FNC.

364 aagcobb  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 1:11:14pm

re: #293 kirkspencer

heh. and meh. Rather than telling why the prequels ruined your childhood, watch them in an intelligent order. (Called the machete order.)

IV, V, II, III, VI. I belongs in the same viewing folder as the cartoon and the Christmas specials - non-canon spinoffs.

It works, by the way, because II and III demonstrate that yes he IS Darth's son because he's following the same general path. Then VI redeems all of both threads.

And JarJar becomes a one-off background character like the canteen dancers, there are no midichlorians, there's no really weird near-pedophilic love story, ...

No, Sheldon says George Lucas must disappoint you in the order that he intended.

365 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 1:14:12pm

re: #357 Targetpractice

I kinda thought that obvious in the first film when space fighters were flying around like WWII warplanes.

The Death Star trench run is clearly patterned after the attack profile for WWII torpedo bombers.

366 Kragar  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 1:16:57pm

re: #365 Dark_Falcon

The Death Star trench run is clearly patterned after the attack profile for WWII torpedo bombers.

"Sir, we have VTOL capable attack craft. Can't we just drop down in front of the target and fire in round at point blank range?"

"GET OUT!"

367 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 1:17:39pm

re: #365 Dark_Falcon

The Death Star trench run is clearly patterned after the attack profile for WWII torpedo bombers.

And also one of the better done Lucas set-pieces. One that advanced the plot and helped up the plot tension of the movie. Get into the later movies and these 10-minute effects pieces are trivial in both regards.

368 Coracle  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 1:18:40pm

This entire thread makes me think:

"Ring ring ring ring ring ring ring, Obamaphone!"

369 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 1:19:53pm

re: #364 aagcobb

No, Sheldon says George Lucas must disappoint you in the order that he intended.

Sheldon can't even defeat Wil Wheaton in card games, what does he know?

370 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 1:22:11pm

re: #341 danarchy

As she was being arrested she said something like. "look america, this is what happens to a peaceful protester in 2012!" As if the cops were doing something wrong.

She didn't say it to the cops. She said it to the press and the onlookers.

371 Kragar  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 1:24:06pm

Shep Smith Apologizes For Fox's Live Broadcast Of Post-Car Chase Suicide

As much as I dislike Fox, Smith has always seemed like a pretty professional newsman.

372 jamesfirecat  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 1:24:18pm

re: #369 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Sheldon can't even defeat Wil Wheaton in card games, what does he know?

He could have defeated Will Wheaton if the decks they had designed had been played by robots that always made the optimal move, but at the last moment Wheaton decided to play the player rather than the game, which just goes to show you what we Leverage fans already know, Will Wheaton is a coniving evil bastard.

373 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 1:25:00pm

re: #299 Targetpractice

Well hell, since we've reached the confession point of the show, I've never seen Blade Runner.

I'm a heretic on that one - I'd say get the theatrical release. Despite Scott's whining, I think the studio made a stronger movie. Watch both is a good exercise too ;)

374 aagcobb  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 1:25:03pm

re: #369 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Sheldon can't even defeat Wil Wheaton in card games, what does he know?

Sheldon has working knowledge of the functioning of the universe.

375 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 1:26:48pm

re: #366 Kragar

Stay on target.... Stay on target... /

376 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 1:28:36pm

re: #371 Kragar

Shep Smith Apologizes For Fox's Live Broadcast Of Post-Car Chase Suicide

[Embedded content]

As much as I dislike Fox, Smith has always seemed like a pretty professional newsman.

Shep's the one shining beacon of sanity on that station. Times I wonder why he hasn't pulled the "Fuck You" quitting routine.

377 Kragar  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 1:29:12pm

re: #375 lawhawk

Stay on target.... Stay on target... /

Image: tumblr_l6n3a7UxVB1qclzvro1_400.jpg

378 Lidane  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 1:32:50pm

re: #369 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Sheldon can't even defeat Wil Wheaton in card games, what does he know?

That's because Evil Wil Wheaton is a lying, cheating bastard. Heh.

379 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 1:35:05pm

re: #377 Kragar

380 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 1:35:35pm

re: #365 Dark_Falcon

The Death Star trench run is clearly patterned after the attack profile for WWII torpedo bombers.

Nope. Operation Chastise - the attacks of RAF 617 Sqn "The Dam Busters" against the Ruhr river dams on the night of May 16-17, 1943 provided the specific inspiration. Right down to one of the bombs missing by bouncing past the edge of the dam rather than going down to the base of the dam before exploding.

381 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 1:39:21pm

re: #380 William Barnett-Lewis

Nope. Operation Chastise - the attacks of RAF 617 Sqn "The Dam Busters" against the Ruhr river dams on the night of May 16-17, 1943 provided the specific inspiration. Right down to one of the bombs missing by bouncing past the edge of the dam rather than going down to the base of the dam before exploding.

Same general concept however in requiring a straight and level approach at relatively low altitude with corresponding increased vulnerability to AAA and fighter interception.

382 JamesWI  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 1:44:21pm

Here's a piece I know KT will hate: Tommy Thompson Makes The Case For ‘Doing Away’ With Fact Checkers

PolitiFact called the “end Medicare” claim the “lie of the year” for 2011 and entered a brave new epistemological world defending the assessment.

“Liberal bloggers and columnists contend it’s accurate to say Republicans voted to end Medicare. Left-leaning websites such as Talking Points Memo, Daily Kos, and The New Republic said PolitiFact’s analysis was wrong, as did New York Times columnist Paul Krugman,” PolitiFact admitted. But PolitiFact was not alone. Other independent fact-checkers also said the claim was false.”

Indeed.

Among those was the Washington Post’s fact checker Glenn Kessler, who rated the Medicare attack Pinocchius Maximum. “It is not true to claim Republicans are trying to ‘kill’ Medicare.”

Well, don’t take it from us. Take it from Tommy Thompson.

383 Lidane  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 1:48:16pm

Ahahaha...this is awesome:

Ann Coulter Tries To Tell Whoopi Goldberg How Black People Feel About Things. It Does Not Go Well.

This is less a "heated discussion" and more a "verbal smackdown."

Here's a brief rundown: at 0:55 Ann Coulter tries to explain how the O.J. Simpson trial was apparently good for black people because it closed what she calls the "white guilt bank," at 2:24 she asserts that liberals have never cared about black people, at 3:20 she basically rewrites America's political history, and at 4:30 she says liberals are responsible for pushing racist voter fraud laws. Oh and prepare to cheer for Whoopi Goldberg and Joy Behar throughout, but especially at 1:13 when Whoopi gets fed up with Coulter's insane assertations and asks her point-blank how much she actually knows "about being black."

384 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 1:49:27pm

re: #382 JamesWI

Here's a piece I know KT will hate: Tommy Thompson Makes The Case For ‘Doing Away’ With Fact Checkers

I'm sure an article refuting this by claiming that Tommy Thompson is a Democratic Party false flag operation should be published any minute now.
//

385 simoom  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 1:49:56pm

As mentioned in the article, factcheck.org had a write-up on this from '09:
[Link: www.factcheck.org...]

Q: Has the Obama administration started a program to use "taxpayer money" to give free cell phones to welfare recipients?

A: No. Low-income households have been eligible for discounted telephone service for more than a decade. But the program is funded by telecom companies, not by taxes, and the president has nothing to do with it.

386 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 1:53:07pm

re: #380 William Barnett-Lewis

Nope. Operation Chastise - the attacks of RAF 617 Sqn "The Dam Busters" against the Ruhr river dams ion the night of May 16-17, 1943 provided the specific inspiration. Right down to one of the bombs missing by bouncing past the edge of the dam rather than going down to the base of the dam before exploding.

It works better as a Pacific torpedo run. The Death Star's Heavy AA (HAA) is ineffective due to problems getting it properly track on starfighters. This mirrors the problems the Japanese had with the sighting and tracking systems of the 5-in HAA guns onboard most of their heavy cruisers, capital ships, and carriers. German naval 88 and 105mm HAA was far better in this regard, as was Italian 90mm HAA.

Moreover, the Y-Wing is a two-crew craft (although at Yavin they lacked their rear gunners) and the X-Wing is a single pilot fighter. The Avro Lancester heavy bombers used in the Dambusters raid were six crew, multi-position aircraft. In the same vein, the TIE fighter (which in the fictions is consistently described as not very fast, lacking shields, lighter armed than its foes, but ultra maneuverable makes a decent Zero stand-in (excepting its short range vs the famously long-legged Zero).

Not doubting the providence, just saying what it resembles.

387 engineer cat  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 1:54:12pm

Newt Gingrich: Child Labor Laws Are 'Stupid'

Sarah Palin Claims Child Labor Laws Are Causing America To Fail

just how many centuries are we supposed to go back?

Palin, Gingrich Call For Trial By Fire In Obama Muslim Accusations

president "must repent his sins publicly in town square and make pilgrimage to vatican on his knees"

388 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 1:55:56pm

re: #382 JamesWI

Well I'm not surprised at how the writer totally ignored the strongest point in defense if the "lie of the Year" moniker. It was the broadcast contention the Ryan plan would cut seniors benefits already on the program.

The factcheckers seem to pass muster with the left every time they catch a GOP operative or Romney in some BS however.

They easily pass muster with the right when they catch some Dem operative or Obama out.

Take away the sour grapes and they hold up a lot better.

389 JamesWI  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 2:01:07pm

re: #388 Daniel Ballard

Well I'm not surprised at how the writer totally ignored the strongest point in defense if the "lie of the Year" moniker. It was the broadcast contention the Ryan plan who cut seniors already on the program.

The factcheckers seem to pass muster with the left every time they catch a GOP operative or Romney in some BS however.

They easily pass muster with the right when they catch some Dem operative or Obama out.

Take away the sour grapes and they hold up a lot better.

The point is more that the "Fact Checkers" go overboard on a few "liberal" statements in an attempt to "prove" to the right-wing that they aren't partisan. Saying "The Republicans want to end Medicare" is the "lie of the year" is blatantly ridiculous, no matter what twisted justification they can come up with.

Another example that I pointed out a week or two ago was Politifact's rating on whether Obama kept his promise to support the repeal of DOMA. They rated it as "PROMISE BROKEN!" even though their justification included numerous examples of the President supporting the repeal of DOMA. In the end, they rated it as "PROMISE BROKEN!" because his support hasn't been successful....that is, Obama somehow broke his promise because Republicans wouldn't even consider repealing it.

390 Amory Blaine  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 2:08:50pm

re: #382 JamesWI

Here's a piece I know KT will hate: Tommy Thompson Makes The Case For ‘Doing Away’ With Fact Checkers

Tommy Thompson: 'Who Better Than Me... To Do Away With Medicaid and Medicare?'

That 3 billion dollar deficit Scott Walker whines incessantly about?

Yeah Tommy helped build that.

Then his lieutenant governor Scott McCallum sold a 6 billion dollar tobacco settlement for an immediate payment of 1.3 billion.

Fiscal conservatives?

BWAAAHAAHAA

391 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 2:17:18pm

Unrelated, yet...related:

392 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 2:18:40pm

BBL

393 Mattand  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 2:20:54pm

re: #376 Targetpractice

Shep's the one shining beacon of sanity on that station. Times I wonder why he hasn't pulled the "Fuck You" quitting routine.

[Embedded content]

My tinfoil-encased conspiracy theory is that he's told to be their "rogue" newscaster at times, so Roger Ailes can jump up and down scream and say "Look! We're not all towing a conservative line!!!"

394 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 2:26:20pm

Ann Coulter is so full of shit her breath stinks.

395 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 2:29:49pm

re: #122 Big Steve

I have to say that Ms Eltahawy was totally in the wrong. She was defacing a legally placed ad....an ad that was legal free speech. She could have elected to protest the sign, pay for an ad of her own....whatever. Expressing hatred is free speech....spray painting over it is an action and illegal. Had she done this and happily accepted her arrest I would have viewed it as a plucky protest but to then harangue the cops for doing their job was also tacky. And further her actions only served to give Pam Geller the exact platform of victim that she desired.

As I've said, I'm mixed on this one, since I despise the people who damage pro-Israel signs on BART. Yes it's Pam's ad, not Blue Truth's. No, I don't like it much. But I recognize a double standard here on my part.

If she was obnoxious to the cops, that's indeed tacky, in my opinion. They didn't put the poster up.

396 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 2:30:57pm

re: #127 Eventual Carrion

Then Bush should have been executed over the Twin Towers incident.

We tend to be realistic about how much presidents can actually do to prevent the world from being a dangerous place on their watch.

397 sagehen  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 2:31:21pm

re: #277 wrenchwench

Second pic, the guy on the left, that could be my nephew...

Bronys make awesome things like this:

398 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 2:32:16pm

re: #130 wrenchwench

Here's what I believe:

[Embedded content]

It is different. It's the difference between bigotry and legally enshrined bigotry.

Also, damaging stuff is different from sitting down to order a tuna melt.

399 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 2:32:39pm

re: #134 jaunte

She insisted they tell her why she was being arrested.

That's fair. The answer is 'vandalism, ma'am'.

400 iossarian  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 2:38:38pm

re: #399 SanFranciscoZionist

Hey, if you're still in this thread - what's the title of the Diana Wynne Jones book you mentioned a short while ago about the alternate world where African matriarchs are the dominant figures in society?

401 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 2:42:43pm

re: #400 iossarian

Hey, if you're still in this thread - what's the title of the Diana Wynne Jones book you mentioned a short while ago about the alternate world where African matriarchs are the dominant figures in society?

Sadly, it was kind of a throwaway thing, and we never learned much about them. Pity, because it was a better idea than the book itself, as I recall. I think the novel was "A Sudden Wild Magic".

402 iossarian  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 2:45:02pm

re: #401 SanFranciscoZionist

Sadly, it was kind of a throwaway thing, and we never learned much about them. Pity, because it was a better idea than the book itself, as I recall. I think the novel was "A Sudden Wild Magic".

Oh, I see. I haven't read that one but I'm aware of it. Some of her stuff can be a bit like that (riffs better than the overall plot) but when the plots are right, she's very good.

403 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Sep 28, 2012 2:50:54pm

re: #389 JamesWI

Okay so like any enterprise including well run news bureaus they get it wrong sometimes. I hear all about how Politifact is really just MSM via Tampa bay/Miami papers. But the mission matters. Those people are sitting there doing a different job because that is the job they get paid to do. The papers do what they do the fact checkers do what they do. I don't see that as a reason to dismiss them out of hand. I have not yet seen anyone demonstrate a strong bias at Politifact that mirrors the newspapers that own them. Exactly when they go with mostly false instead of pants on fire is fair grist for the mill. But to take that so far as to say we should ignore or dispense with the factcheckers as a breed is ridiculous to me.

So ridiculous we see the GOP has that exact advice for their base. Ignore the factcheckers. Heh, that's clear evidence they know the facts are not in their favor. We should keep that exact thing in mind if we think we might say to get rid of the fact checkers. 'Cause the MSM is not gonna do that checking for us either.

Then of course we have the Annenberg funded & less immediate paced Factcheck. Who happened to agree with the facts surrounding the "lie of the year" at Politifact but certainly did not use that term. "Whopper" was their term. Which confirms for me it was a bald lie to indicate the seniors of today would be hurt by the Ryan voucher plan in the future.


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