Greenwald’s New Piece Targets Microsoft

But… “targeting US citizens does require an individual warrant”
US News • Views: 28,778

The newest Glenn Greenwald bombshell exclusive story is out, and already people are hyperventilating on Twitter that it proves the NSA has “direct access” to Microsoft’s servers: Revealed: How Microsoft Handed the NSA Access to Encrypted Messages.

The claims made by the article (note that there are no source documents to ensure that nothing is being quoted out of context):

The documents show that:

• Microsoft helped the NSA to circumvent its encryption to address concerns that the agency would be unable to intercept web chats on the new Outlook.com portal;

• The agency already had pre-encryption stage access to email on Outlook.com, including Hotmail;

• The company worked with the FBI this year to allow the NSA easier access via Prism to its cloud storage service SkyDrive, which now has more than 250 million users worldwide;

• Microsoft also worked with the FBI’s Data Intercept Unit to “understand” potential issues with a feature in Outlook.com that allows users to create email aliases;

• Skype, which was bought by Microsoft in October 2011, worked with intelligence agencies last year to allow Prism to collect video of conversations as well as audio;

• Material collected through Prism is routinely shared with the FBI and CIA, with one NSA document describing the program as a “team sport”.

Notice — there’s nothing in here about “direct access” to anything, although there are lots of hints and suggestions and innuendo. What’s being described are negotiations between the NSA and Microsoft to develop protocols for handling information… but you have to read all the way down to the 13th paragraph before you get to the most important part of the article:

Targeting US citizens does require an individual warrant…

I’ve learned that when a new Greenwald bombshell comes out, you can cut right to the chase by searching the document for the word “warrant.” So far it hasn’t failed once to bring up that little note about the NSA needing individual warrants to access data of US citizens, or foreigners on US soil — a little note that’s always surrounded by distortion and fear-mongering and exaggeration.

Microsoft gave a statement to the Guardian about this new article:

In a statement, Microsoft said: “When we upgrade or update products we aren’t absolved from the need to comply with existing or future lawful demands.” The company reiterated its argument that it provides customer data “only in response to government demands and we only ever comply with orders for requests about specific accounts or identifiers”.

Notice how Greenwald (or one of his co-authors) casts the Microsoft statement as an “argument,” again trying to pump some air into that deflated “direct access” balloon.

There is one point raised in this article that isn’t news, but does affect the individual warrant requirement:

Blanket orders from the secret surveillance court allow these communications to be collected without an individual warrant if the NSA operative has a 51% belief that the target is not a US citizen and is not on US soil at the time.

This is a valid point, and it’s one of the issues that needs to be further addressed in some way. There’s a reason for the rule: in some cases it’s simply not possible to accurately determine the origin of Internet or cell phone data. But I think the “51%” rule violates the spirit (if not the letter) of the 4th Amendment’s protection against unreasonable search and seizure, and I’d prefer to see a protocol that would err on the side of assuming it’s a US citizen in cases where the metadata doesn’t provide a clear location.

It should be noted that for the vast majority of Internet users in the US (who use one of the major ISPs), this will never be an issue since the IP address’s US origin will always be clear.

UPDATE at 7/11/13 2:06:28 pm

In an article that unfortunately takes the claims in Greenwald’s piece at face value, the Atlantic has a more complete response from Microsoft:

We have clear principles which guide the response across our entire company to government demands for customer information for both law enforcement and national security issues. First, we take our commitments to our customers and to compliance with applicable law very seriously, so we provide customer data only in response to legal processes. Second, our compliance team examines all demands very closely, and we reject them if we believe they aren’t valid. Third, we only ever comply with orders about specific accounts or identifiers, and we would not respond to the kind of blanket orders discussed in the press over the past few weeks, as the volumes documented in our most recent disclosure clearly illustrate. To be clear, Microsoft does not provide any government with blanket or direct access to SkyDrive, Outlook.com, Skype or any Microsoft product. Finally when we upgrade or update products legal obligations may in some circumstances require that we maintain the ability to provide information in response to a law enforcement or national security request. There are aspects of this debate that we wish we were able to discuss more freely. That’s why we’ve argued for additional transparency that would help everyone understand and debate these important issues.

Jump to bottom

130 comments
1 darthstar  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 1:56:02pm

Greenwald’s latest unsourced scoop of shit.

2 Kragar  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 1:58:46pm

Greenwald still appears to be under the false impression he has credibility with reasonable people.

3 darthstar  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 2:00:36pm
4 Political Atheist  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 2:01:23pm

So you guys watching Brit comedies on an expat server better watch out…
Just kidding of course but we do have this related note

Encryption Has Foiled Wiretaps for First Time Ever, Feds Say
wired.com

5 Ian G.  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 2:01:25pm
although there are lots of hints and suggestions and innuendo

You can’t have a good conspiracy theory without ‘em.

6 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 2:02:34pm

Greenwald’s trying desperately to get an extension on that 15 minutes.

7 b.d.  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 2:03:00pm

I don’t know how much more of this non Earth shattering news I can take from Greenwald.

8 Kragar  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 2:05:59pm

Joel Gilbert Claims Obama Stole Election With NSA Data, Letting Disabled People Vote

In an interview with Denver radio host Peter Boyles this week, Gilbert explained his theory that the Obama campaign’s renowned voter database was based on secret NSA data. This is the only possible explanation, Gilbert says, because “I don’t think they Googled everybody in the country.”

He then explained that President Obama and the First Lady’s decision to cast early votes was in fact a “signal to their followers” to commit voter fraud. “I think a large percentage of those on absentee voted again on Election Day,” Gilbert said, estimating that these double-voting Obama supporters made up as much as 25 percent of the electorate.

“Romney actually won the election on Election Day,” he added. “But because they had stacked the vote through absentee ballots, through dead people, homeless, disabled people, people voting two, three times, I believe that’s how they knew they would win the election.”

It’s unclear if Gilbert knows that while dead people aren’t allowed to vote, the homeless and disabled are.

9 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 2:06:41pm

In an article that unfortunately takes the claims in Greenwald’s piece at face value, the Atlantic has a more complete response from Microsoft:

We have clear principles which guide the response across our entire company to government demands for customer information for both law enforcement and national security issues. First, we take our commitments to our customers and to compliance with applicable law very seriously, so we provide customer data only in response to legal processes. Second, our compliance team examines all demands very closely, and we reject them if we believe they aren’t valid. Third, we only ever comply with orders about specific accounts or identifiers, and we would not respond to the kind of blanket orders discussed in the press over the past few weeks, as the volumes documented in our most recent disclosure clearly illustrate. To be clear, Microsoft does not provide any government with blanket or direct access to SkyDrive, Outlook.com, Skype or any Microsoft product. Finally when we upgrade or update products legal obligations may in some circumstances require that we maintain the ability to provide information in response to a law enforcement or national security request. There are aspects of this debate that we wish we were able to discuss more freely. That’s why we’ve argued for additional transparency that would help everyone understand and debate these important issues.

10 Bulworth  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 2:13:18pm

re: #8 Kragar

He then explained that President Obama and the First Lady’s decision to cast early votes was in fact a “signal to their followers” to commit voter fraud. “I think a large percentage of those on absentee voted again on Election Day,” Gilbert said, estimating that these double-voting Obama supporters made up as much as 25 percent of the electorate.

The “I think” cinches it for me. Very convincing evidence.

Check mate libtards!!!!!

//

11 Iwouldprefernotto  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 2:13:23pm

re: #8 Kragar

Joel Gilbert Claims Obama Stole Election With NSA Data, Letting Disabled People Vote

So Nate Silver was wrong? That will make a lot of people happy. Happier than knowing Romney should be president.

12 jaunte  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 2:14:54pm

re: #9 Charles Johnson

I see by the Bradblog that the idea that the NSA reads every single damn email in the world is not considered an extraordinary claim.

13 darthstar  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 2:17:53pm

Sharknado! Tonight!

io9.com

14 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 2:19:12pm

re: #12 jaunte

I see by the Bradblog that the idea that the NSA reads every single damn email in the world is not considered an extraordinary claim.

There’s just no point in continuing to debate once that kind of conspiracy theory stuff starts.

15 kirkspencer  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 2:27:00pm

re: #14 Charles Johnson

There’s just no point in continuing to debate once that kind of conspiracy theory stuff starts.

True. A problem with this, of course, is that as expert systems get better a point will be reached where NSA (systems) DO read every email they get, and there are systems that can be used to get almost all the emails that pass through US servers. (Please let me emphasize “CAN BE”, not “are”, used.) An intelligent discussion in advance of what is and is not going to be allowed, and how that allowance is to be monitored and reviewed, would be a good thing.

But between partisans and paranoids, it ain’t gonna happen.

16 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 2:30:48pm
17 Tigger2  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 2:31:07pm

re: #8 Kragar

Joel Gilbert Claims Obama Stole Election With NSA Data, Letting Disabled People Vote

The stupid never stops. 24hr 7day a week stupid.

18 engineer cat  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 2:31:27pm

He then explained that President Obama and the First Lady’s decision to cast early votes was in fact a “signal to their followers” to commit voter fraud

i submit this as a textbook example of a psychotic thought process

i know this because ignatz cat signaled it to me by catching a rat instead of a mole today…

19 darthstar  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 2:32:26pm

re: #16 Charles Johnson

SHARKNADO!

And it has realistic special effects
Image: k-bigpic.png

20 darthstar  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 2:33:31pm
21 darthstar  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 2:34:15pm
22 Tigger2  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 2:37:09pm

re: #8 Kragar

“But because they had stacked the vote through absentee ballots, through dead people, homeless, disabled people, people voting two, three times, I believe that’s how they knew they would win the election.”


And here I thought it was my decision to vote early.

And Gilbert ( ya Bitch ) I’m disabled and I have the right to vote.

23 Mattand  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 2:37:25pm

re: #8 Kragar

Joel Gilbert Claims Obama Stole Election With NSA Data, Letting Disabled People Vote

Letting disabled people vote is a crime?

Jesus, conservatives and Republicans get stupider by the hour.

24 Joanne  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 2:38:07pm

re: #11 Iwouldprefernotto

So Nate Silver was wrong? That will make a lot of people happy. Happier than knowing Romney should be president.

Especially the Unskewed Polls guy. VINDICATED!!!11!

25 darthstar  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 2:38:17pm
26 Tigger2  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 2:39:35pm

re: #25 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Hope the Senate or the Pres kills it.

27 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 2:40:26pm

re: #25 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Now comes the whining about how they totally passed a bill but Democrats “killed it.”

28 Bulworth  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 2:41:23pm

re: #22 Tigger2

And I think homeless people can vote, too. If they live in shelters and use that for an address, or they are recently displaced, etc. But I’m pretty sure that just because you aren’t paying rent somewhere doesn’t mean you can’t vote.

29 Joanne  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 2:41:37pm

Libertarian/Conservative humor.

30 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 2:42:54pm

Why, if Glennlandia believes Microsoft is “all in” with the NSA, does he still communicate via Skype?

He is so full of shit his eyes turned brown.

Am I following this right? Trolling every single phone number and computer for “evidence” does seem over-broad and a violation of basic 4th Amendment rights, but until Congress changes it, or the SC rules against what the NSA is doing (unlikely), it’s going to continue.

After the Boston Marathon bombing, though, and other domestic type terrorist attacks since 9/11, it’s pretty hard to believe that the NSA’s trolling is catching anyone of much significance in the US.

The only thing good that could possibly come out of these “revelations” will be a robust discussion of the purpose and intents of the NSA and FISA court, and I don’t expect we all will be privy to that.

31 Tigger2  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 2:45:06pm

re: #28 Bulworth

And I think homeless people can vote, too. If they live in shelters and use that for an address, or they are recently displaced, etc. But I’m pretty sure that just because you aren’t paying rent somewhere doesn’t mean you can’t vote.

Ya it’s pretty plain if you don’t vote Republican then you shouldn’t vote. //

32 Bulworth  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 2:45:56pm

re: #25 darthstar

I was reading Ezra Klein’s article about this a little bit ago, trying to sort out how the food stamp financing is usually done. Apparently the spending for the program is set every year and the current funding runs out at the end of Sept (end of fiscal year). But the Farm Bill is a once every five years or something kind of deal, so having the food stamp spending be its own thing wouldn’t be unusual at least in the non-Farm Bill years. But sounds like in the years where there is a Farm Bill that the food stamp program is authorized for that year.

33 Joanne  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 2:46:12pm

re: #31 Tigger2

Ya it’s pretty plain if you don’t vote Republican then you shouldn’t vote. //

And in their hopes, won’t be able to vote.

34 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 2:47:16pm

re: #32 Bulworth

I was reading Ezra Klein’s article about this a little bit ago, trying to sort out how the food stamp financing is usually done. Apparently the spending for the program is set every year and the current funding runs out at the end of Sept (end of fiscal year). But the Farm Bill is a once every five years or something kind of deal, so having the food stamp spending be its own thing wouldn’t be unusual at least in the non-Farm Bill years. But sounds like in the years where there is a Farm Bill that the food stamp program is authorized for that year.

Yeah, but like most traditions, that assumes both sides are reasonable and interested in governing, not one being a pack of dickheads.

35 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 2:47:18pm

re: #28 Bulworth

And I think homeless people can vote, too. If they live in shelters and use that for an address, or they are recently displaced, etc. But I’m pretty sure that just because you aren’t paying rent somewhere doesn’t mean you can’t vote.

Voting, perhaps, but I’m sure we couldn’t register someone without an in-county physical address in FL.

36 Bulworth  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 2:48:47pm

re: #35 Decatur Deb

Yeah they would have to be registered at some address, even if a shelter or motel or whatever.

37 Tigger2  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 2:48:52pm

re: #33 Joanne

And in their hopes, won’t be able to vote.

They are trying anything they can think of to make that happen, as far as they’re concerned screw democracy, fake ass patriots.

38 jaunte  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 2:49:04pm

re: #28 Bulworth

And I think homeless people can vote, too. If they live in shelters and use that for an address, or they are recently displaced, etc. But I’m pretty sure that just because you aren’t paying rent somewhere doesn’t mean you can’t vote.

They may need a concealed carry permit.

39 Bulworth  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 2:49:30pm

re: #37 Tigger2

But they really love Murica.

40 Bulworth  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 2:51:09pm

re: #8 Kragar

This hypothetical’s a little disappointing anyway. Can’t he go back to 2008 and talk about how that election was rigged and McCain should really be president and HCR would not have passed and OBL might still be alive and…

///

41 Randall Gross  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 2:54:23pm

They keep saying that there’s no automatic way to see if the person is in the US, but there are are actually myriad ways to do this, and scripts to automate that would be child’s play. There’s routing path in the logs, there’s DNS, there’s IP, there’s the mail server used, there’s ICMP, there’s logs on every server and router and switch it passes through - there’s a ton of markers on every transaction that identifies where and when it came from.

42 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 3:00:21pm
MYTH: If the voter is homeless and has no legal residence, the voter may not vote.
FACT: State registration laws may not discriminate against the homeless in voter registration as long as the homeless applicant for voter registration intends to remain in a locale and has either a place where he can receive messages or an effective mailing address. The homeless person will vote in the precinct where the applicant receives messages (e.g., rescue mission) or the precinct in which the applicant’s effective mailing address is located.

California case law:

Collier v. Menzel, 221 CalRptr. 110 (Ct. App. 1985).
Three plaintiffs experiencing homelessness challenged the Santa Barbara county clerk’s rejection of their registration applications, in which they had listed a public park as their residence. The court found that the residence was sufficient for registration purposes because the applicants had a fixed habitation in the park and intended to remain there. The court held that denying voter registration because applicants listed a city park as their residence violated the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. The opinion further stated that people who were experiencing homelessness should be encouraged to register and vote in order to provide them with some greatly needed political influence and electoral power. Election officials must now use the specific spot within the park where the persons regularly sleep in order to determine their election district.

43 kirkspencer  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 3:00:40pm

re: #41 Randall Gross

They keep saying that there’s no automatic way to see if the person is in the US, but there are are actually myriad ways to do this, and scripts to automate that would be child’s play. There’s routing path in the logs, there’s DNS, there’s IP, there’s the mail server used, there’s ICMP, there’s logs on every server and router and switch it passes through - there’s a ton of markers on every transaction that identifies where and when it came from.

IF I use an anonymizing proxy for my gmail connection, the email header is wrong; it shows the IP for the proxy. And I don’t have to anonymize - I could be using a VPN connection per my company’s policy.

Further, the scripts are not going to be able to backtrack and read the log of every server and router and switch through which the message passes.

The majority of email can be sourced (at this time), but not all. The exceptions can, depending on how applied, create either an “obvious” hole or “erroneous” reading.

44 Patricia Kayden  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 3:00:58pm

re: #2 Kragar

Greenwald still appears to be under the false impression he has credibility with reasonable people.

But unfortunately, it looks like most Americans are buying into his act. I guess Greenwald can pat himself on the back if Congress moves to scale back the Patriot Act. At least he and his hero, Snowden, would have accomplished something good.

45 wrenchwench  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 3:02:07pm


If you need to travel westbound through the Interstate 10 tunnel in Phoenix, bad news: There are a ton of watermelons all over the place.

If you need a watermelon, good news: There are a ton of watermelons all over the place inside the I-10 westbound tunnel.

As you can see from the photos, it looks like Gallagher was driving the watermelon truck today.

46 Stanley Sea  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 3:10:15pm

re: #45 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

I remember the Campbell’s Soup Spill in San Diego (years ago) It was a catastrophe.

47 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 3:10:32pm

re: #21 darthstar


What’s a “seizure-like episode”?
Are there episodes that just “look” like seizures?

48 Gus  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 3:13:43pm
49 wrenchwench  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 3:14:20pm

re: #46 Fear the Blah People

I remember the Campbell’s Soup Spill in San Diego (years ago) It was a catastrophe.

There should be a website just for freeway spills.

50 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 3:16:01pm

Why don’t you just go tell the cops? Oh, wait. The NSA is no doubt all over this.


TooRatch ‏@Loonsauce

Only in Scottsdale does your weed dealer say, “I’ll just leave it for you in the front seat of the boat.”

Andrew ‏@Chemdrew_ 4 Jul

@Loonsauce dude… Where do you pick up?? My weed dealer here has a boat in his yard

TooRatch ‏@Loonsauce 4 Jul

@Chemdrew_ Hahaha figures. Union hills and 32nd

51 Joanne  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 3:19:10pm

re: #50 Justanotherhuman

I dunno about the NSA, but I bet local cops might be.

Too funny.

52 Travis Bickle  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 3:19:24pm

Charles’s magic “warrant” is a fig leaf. The FISA court is a guaranteed rubber stamp.

53 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 3:20:54pm

re: #8 Kragar

Joel Gilbert Claims Obama Stole Election With NSA Data, Letting Disabled People Vote

Who the hell is Joel Gilbert, and why isn’t he in my “Idiots” folder?

54 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 3:21:55pm

re: #52 Travis Bickle

Charles’s magic “warrant” is a fig leaf. The FISA court is a guaranteed rubber stamp.

Yeah yeah, we hear that time and time again. Is there any proof of abuse? Not speculation, not assumption, proof.

55 Gus  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 3:26:08pm

Argle bargle.

56 jaunte  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 3:26:12pm

Definitely six minutes to Castro
uk.flightaware.com

57 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 3:26:59pm

re: #41 Randall Gross

Yeah, but there are also proxy servers and systems like Tor that can effectively mask the originating IP, or make it very difficult to locate. And in many cases the servers of those systems are located in dodgy parts of the world.

I think the 51% rule is overly broad, but the volume of data they’re trying to filter is so vast I can understand the reason for its existence.

58 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 3:32:13pm

re: #52 Travis Bickle

PRISM Isn’t Data Mining and Other Falsehoods in the N.S.A. “Scandal”

There are many other restrictions and requirements on how data can be properly obtained and used in the PRISM system. But since this doesn’t require some secret, confidential source to understand, I invite you to click on the link I provided above and read through the law.

However, targeting is not done willy-nilly. The system is subject to review by the judiciary, the Congress, and the executive branch. Both the attorney general and the director of the N.S.A. must make a determination that they “reasonably believe” a person they wish to target is, in fact, a foreign national outside the country whose activities raise national-security concerns for the United States. That standard, of course, is lower than probable cause, which is a small part of why any information obtained can’t be used in a criminal case.

Courts established under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act review these determinations and must approve the targeting. (Much has been made of the fact that these approvals appear to be given frequently, with some saying the F.I.S.A. courts are just rubber stamps. I disagree; given the requirements for prior review and assessment at the top of the executive branch, a high approval rate for subpoenas would be expected. I’d be more concerned if they were frequently rejected, because that would signal the executive branch was probably attempting to abuse the system.)

59 Gus  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 3:38:54pm

re: #56 jaunte

Definitely six minutes to Castro
uk.flightaware.com

Unconfirmed. Snowballs hasn’t even formally accepted Venezuela’s offer.

60 Gus  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 3:39:14pm
61 Gus  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 3:47:05pm
62 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 3:50:54pm

Sources confirm McDonnell negotiating resignation

the-richmonder.com

63 Joanne  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 3:52:31pm

Uh huh. I’m an ignorant racist.

64 Joanne  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 3:55:35pm

re: #62 Justanotherhuman

Sources confirm McDonnell negotiating resignation

the-richmonder.com

Multiple sources in Richmond’s legal community have confirmed to me that the investigation of Star Scientific by state and federal prosecutors turned up what they feel is sufficient evidence to charge Virginia’s Republican Governor Bob McDonnell and his wife Maureen with one or more felonies and in consequence, McDonnell is attempting to negotiate his resignation in exchange for no prosecution of Virginia’s first couple.

So he’ll run for senate in two years like Mark Sanford? No harm no foul? Sheesh.

65 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 3:59:07pm

re: #64 Joanne

So he’ll run for senate in two years like Mark Sanford? No harm no foul? Sheesh.

Yep. No doubt part of the agreement for his resignation will be a gag order on the particulars of the investigation. When people bring it up later, he’ll laugh and say “That was settled out of court and I was never charged!”

66 Kragar  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 3:59:11pm

What the fu…

Fischer also says that “Christians are being moved out of the United States military so hyper-masculine homosexuals can move in, similar to the kind of homosexuals that formed Hitler’s stormtroopers.”

Youtube Video

67 darthstar  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 4:02:13pm

re: #62 Justanotherhuman

Sources confirm McDonnell negotiating resignation

the-richmonder.com

I think he should stay in office (or resign…his choice) and face the charges.

68 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 4:03:14pm

re: #67 darthstar

I think he should stay in office (or resign…his choice) and face the charges.

He does that, his political days are effectively over. Or at least they will be for a couple election cycles.

69 Joanne  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 4:05:34pm

re: #66 Kragar

I thought they were all fagelas (sic). Girly men in pink short shorts.

70 darthstar  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 4:06:36pm
71 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 4:07:13pm

re: #66 Kragar

What the fu…

Fischer also says that “Christians are being moved out of the United States military so hyper-masculine homosexuals can move in, similar to the kind of homosexuals that formed Hitler’s stormtroopers.”

[Embedded content]

“The Pink Swastika”

A “history” work that derives its central thesis from the propaganda that Goebbels and Hitler put out after Night of the Long Knives.

Completely serious. “The SA were going to create a gay dictatorship” is how the NSDAP explained the purge*.

*I am imprecisely citing The 3rd Reich in Power by Richard Evans, which describes the event and its justification.

72 darthstar  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 4:07:29pm

re: #68 Targetpractice

He does that, his political days are effectively over. Or at least they will be for a couple election cycles.

Just because someone’s in politics doesn’t mean they belong in politics.

73 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 4:08:57pm

re: #66 Kragar

What the fu…

Fischer also says that “Christians are being moved out of the United States military so hyper-masculine homosexuals can move in, similar to the kind of homosexuals that formed Hitler’s stormtroopers.”

[Embedded content]

Strangely, the totally hetero SS men that remained after the SA purge managed to kill a lot of helpless civilians.

74 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 4:09:22pm

Nah, McDonnell will negotiate his resignation in exchange for the charges dropped and put under a gag order, then come back in 2-4 years for higher office. When challenge on it, he’ll laugh it off as settled out of court, then rely upon his supporters to snap that it was all a “Democrat plot” to harm Cucci’s run. They’ll compare it to Palin, saying that Democrats spun up bullshit allegations to make McDonnell “waste” taxpayer dollars defending himself.

75 AlexRogan  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 4:10:53pm

re: #62 Justanotherhuman

Sources confirm McDonnell negotiating resignation

the-richmonder.com

re: #64 Joanne

So he’ll run for senate in two years like Mark Sanford? No harm no foul? Sheesh.

re: #65 Targetpractice

Yep. No doubt part of the agreement for his resignation will be a gag order on the particulars of the investigation. When people bring it up later, he’ll laugh and say “That was settled out of court and I was never charged!”

I hope the Feds have strong enough evidence to tell McDonnell and his wife to pound sand in regards to a “negotiated exit”; he and his wife need to be perpwalked straight from the governor’s mansion to the dock.

76 Wile E. Wonka  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 4:12:20pm

re: #66 Kragar

What the fu…

Seriously. Are our homosexual brethren hyper-masculine stormtroopers bent on world domination, or sissies bent on feminizing the empire until it falls?

I gotta admit, there is something about a Sam Browne belt tho…
;)

77 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 4:12:42pm
The method is called 5D because in addition to the three dimensional position of these nanostructures their refraction and polarization characteristics work as two additional parameters.

How kewl is that?

78 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 4:15:52pm

Jeanne K. ‏@SnarkAmendment 2m

Millions wait to find out if #Snowden flight to #Havana #Cuba merely staged to promote #Sharknado movie on #Syfy #Suspense

79 Joanne  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 4:18:36pm
80 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 4:18:38pm

re: #75 AlexRogan

Yes, those are Fed and State charges. The more the merrier, I say.

81 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 4:21:39pm

re: #45 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

waiting for the Obama jokes…

82 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 4:24:07pm

re: #59 Gus

Unconfirmed. Snowballs hasn’t even formally accepted Venezuela’s offer.

how many reporters on the flight? Any from CNN?

//

83 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 4:25:12pm

re: #65 Targetpractice

Yep. No doubt part of the agreement for his resignation will be a gag order on the particulars of the investigation. When people bring it up later, he’ll laugh and say “That was settled out of court and I was never charged!”

the Palin defense! works every time…

84 Joanne  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 4:25:48pm

re: #75 AlexRogan

Me too. The people deserve better.

85 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 4:26:32pm

re: #74 Targetpractice

Nah, McDonnell will negotiate his resignation in exchange for the charges dropped and put under a gag order, then come back in 2-4 years for higher office. When challenge on it, he’ll laugh it off as settled out of court, then rely upon his supporters to snap that it was all a “Democrat plot” to harm Cucci’s run. They’ll compare it to Palin, saying that Democrats spun up bullshit allegations to make McDonnell “waste” taxpayer dollars defending himself.

damn you Obama!!!11!!

//

86 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 4:26:56pm

re: #45 wrenchwench

I remember there was a truck door that was not secured on a TastyKake truck. Folks along the Schuylkill Expressway did indeed take a tasty break.

87 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 4:27:44pm
88 Kragar  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 4:28:44pm

re: #87 FemNaziBitch

5 concepts the GOP just can’t seem to grasp

You lost Rick Perry after 2.

89 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 4:29:54pm
90 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 4:30:39pm

re: #87 FemNaziBitch

The GOP still has not read my memo: Get out of my bedroom and out of my house and do not let the door hit you on the way out.

91 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 4:37:11pm

Patrick Oppmann CNN @CNN_Oppmann
All passengers appear to have disembarked Aeroflot 150, no sign of #Snowden. #Cuba
15 minutes ago

92 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 4:38:04pm

re: #91 Justanotherhuman

Patrick Oppmann CNN @CNN_Oppmann
All passengers appear to have disembarked Aeroflot 150, no sign of #Snowden. #Cuba
15 minutes ago

93 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 4:40:16pm

re: #90 PhillyPretzel

The GOP still has not read my memo: Get out of my bedroom and out of my house and do not let the door hit you on the way out.

I made a graphic for you

94 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 4:42:10pm

re: #93 FemNaziBitch

That is beautiful. I am going to favorite that. thanks.

95 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 4:43:35pm
96 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 4:44:14pm

re: #94 PhillyPretzel

That is beautiful. I am going to favorite that. thanks.

Share it everywhere, make everyone aware of your opinion.

WE need your help.

97 Kragar  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 4:47:09pm

North Carolina House Passes New Abortion Restrictions

North Carolina’s GOP-controlled House passed controversial abortion measures Thursday tucked in a motorcycle safety bill on a 74-41 vote, according to the Charlotte Observer.

Title Of North Carolina Motorcycle Bill: 123 Words On Abortion, 17 On Motorcycles

Image: Screen%20Shot%202013-07-11%20at%203.56.24%20PM.png

98 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 4:48:46pm

re: #97 Kragar

North Carolina House Passes New Abortion Restrictions

Title Of North Carolina Motorcycle Bill: 123 Words On Abortion, 17 On Motorcycles

Image: Screen%20Shot%202013-07-11%20at%203.56.24%20PM.png

Yeah, we are watching the road to the Supreme Court being paved.

99 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 4:53:16pm

re: #97 Kragar

From a purely grammatical stand point that is one doozy of a run-on sentence. And that fragment on the end makes absolutely no sense at all. I strongly suggest that those legislators go back to school and learn English.

100 Kragar  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 4:53:28pm

The bill to promote biblical law throughout the whole of the land and prove that Christians are the bestest people ever and make people read the bible and sing happy songs about Jesus because we all really care about them so very much and repeal every law ever passed by the GOP.


I think I have a real shot at pushing that through some state legislatures.

101 Kragar  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 4:54:21pm

re: #99 PhillyPretzel

From a purely grammatical stand point that is one doozy of a run-on sentence. And that fragment on the end makes absolutely no sense at all. I strongly suggest that those legislators go back to school and learn English.

They learned English as it was originally written in the Bible.
/

102 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 4:55:04pm

re: #101 Kragar

Hmm. That would explain part of it.

103 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 4:57:12pm
With new abortion laws in place, Texans can expect a significant increase in the number of babies born every year. That’s the whole point—to turn more pregnancies into live births.

We can expect the mothers of a multitude of these “extra” babies to be teens, unwed and/or poor. Those are the demographics of a significant proportion of women who choose abortions.

Since the moral impetus for reducing, if not eliminating, abortions is advocacy for life, then Texans should demonstrate our support for these babies. When you examine many of our current practices and policies, you understand why outsiders claim Texans are more concerned about fetuses than babies, children and teenagers.

A compassionate and pragmatic article published in The Baptist Standard. I have to commend the author.

If the Pro-birth GOP were to publish such a piece, they would replace “baby” with “parasite.”

104 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 4:58:27pm

re: #99 PhillyPretzel

From a purely grammatical stand point that is one doozy of a run-on sentence. And that fragment on the end makes absolutely no sense at all. I strongly suggest that those legislators go back to school and learn English.

It’s the kind of law that keeps lawyers in business. Where a comma falls or doesn’t fall merits interpretation by the courts … .

105 engineer cat  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 5:00:53pm

re: #103 FemNaziBitch

A compassionate and pragmatic article published in The Baptist Standard. I have to commend the author.

If the Pro-birth GOP were to publish such a piece, they would replace “baby” with “parasite.”

or “minimum wage worker”

106 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 5:03:18pm

I finished reading the entire judges ruling and I am more than pissed-off at the State of Illinois Supreme Court.

the link to the pdf is at the link in the Pages Post.

The wording of some “phrases” shows an obvious pro-birth bias. IMHO

107 engineer cat  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 5:03:33pm

re: #104 FemNaziBitch

It’s the kind of law that keeps lawyers in business. Where a comma falls or doesn’t fall merits interpretation by the courts … .

if a comma falls in the forest, do i eat, shoot, or leave?

108 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 5:04:36pm

re: #105 engineer cat

or “minimum wage worker”

or “someone grateful to live near to or have a job at an unregulated fertlizer plant”.

109 b_sharp  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 5:07:48pm

Note the smiley face.

110 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 5:10:53pm

re: #107 engineer cat

if a comma falls in the forest, do i eat, shoot, or leave?

I don’t think the courts have addressed that question as of yet. You’d better lawyer up.

111 Gus  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 5:15:16pm

bbl

112 bratwurst  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 5:19:14pm

Hey remember the “Citizen Koch” documentary that PBS killed to appease the Koch Brothers? In case you don’t, the story was paged by VB here.

Good news: you can now support the film being completed and made available on DVD via a Kickstarter campaign. Here is the link.

Also, if you disagree with the Koch political agenda in Wisconsin and elsewhere, may I suggest you never buy the following Georgia-Pacific consumer products?

Angel Soft toilet paper
Quilted Northern toilet paper
Soft n Gentle toilet paper
Brawny paper towels
Dixie plates, bowls, napkins and cups
Mardi Gras napkins and towels
Sparkle napkins
Vanity Fair napkins
Zee napkins

113 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 5:19:15pm
114 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 5:20:57pm

re: #112 bratwurst

Hey remember the “Citizen Koch” documentary that PBS killed to appease the Koch Brothers? In case you don’t, the story was paged by VB here.

Good news: you can now support the film being completed and made available on DVD via a Kickstarter campaign. Here is the link.

Also, if you disagree with the Koch political agenda in Wisconsin and elsewhere, may I suggest you never buy the following Georgia-Pacific consumer products?

Angel Soft toilet paper
Quilted Northern toilet paper
Soft n Gentle toilet paper
Brawny paper towels
Dixie plates, bowls, napkins and cups
Mardi Gras napkins and towels
Sparkle napkins
Vanity Fair napkins
Zee napkins

Anyway to know what “private label” or generic versions they also produce?

115 bratwurst  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 5:22:56pm

re: #114 FemNaziBitch

Anyway to know what “private label” or generic versions they also produce?

Not for 100% certain, but simply avoiding any product with the Georgia-Pacific name on it would be a good start.

116 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 5:27:35pm

re: #113 FemNaziBitch

OMG!!!

insulin! I need insulin!!!!

117 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 5:27:56pm

re: #116 Backwoods_Sleuth

insulin! I need insulin!!!!

I KNOW!!!!!

118 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 5:30:40pm

The birth video is darling. The little guy comes out screaming!!!

119 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 5:36:56pm

re: #118 FemNaziBitch

If only human babies were proportionately that small. [sigh]

120 cinesimon  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 5:49:15pm

Greenwald once again confirms his status of confused little boy.
I’m betting that as soon as people begin poking fun at him again, once again he’ll trot out his unique - and uniquely bizarre form of retraction: accuse the entire universe of being so dumb that they are unable to understand what he means when he writes something. Because, of course, we silly silly people are taking his words at face value.
As Gleny boy and his fan-kiddies argue; only truth-telling, patriotic Real American Libertarians - be they left or right, can truly understand his brilliant, intellectually powerful, between-the-lines argument.

121 abolitionist  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 6:05:02pm

re: #9 Charles Johnson

In an article that unfortunately takes the claims in Greenwald’s piece at face value, the Atlantic has a more complete response from Microsoft:

Probably unrelated. Maybe. Who knows?

STEVE BALLMER KILLS WINDOWS
CEO tears up products playbook in mega Microsoft reorg
By Gavin Clarke, 11th July 2013

Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer has unveiled plans for a massive restructuring at Redmond. From today, the company’s product groups will be dissolved and resurrected as slimmed-down devices and services teams ready to take on Apple, Amazon, Google and others.

Microsoft’s chief executive today announced the death of the mighty five Microsoft business units: Windows; Server and Tools; Microsoft Business Division; Entertainment and Devices; and Online Services.

Ballmer has shuffled and regrouped Microsoft into four new divisions: Operating Systems Engineering; Devices and Studios; Applications and Services; and Cloud and Enterprise Engineering.

Skype -related management changes are mentioned near the middle of the article:

Also, it seems Lu will be leading Skype, the failed VoIP web telco bought by Microsoft for $8.5bn in 2011. Tony Bates, the Skype CEO who had become the president of Microsoft’s ring-fenced Skype division following the deal, is now EVP of a Business Development and Evangelism Group. Those in the old business groups working on business development and corporate strategy report to Bates.

122 Bubblehead II  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 6:32:16pm

Night Lizards,.

123 chadu  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 7:08:15pm

Responding without reading the comment thread.

Blanket orders from the secret surveillance court allow these communications to be collected without an individual warrant if the NSA operative has a 51% belief that the target is not a US citizen and is not on US soil at the time.

This is a valid point, and it’s one of the issues that needs to be further addressed in some way. There’s a reason for the rule: in some cases it’s simply not possible to accurately determine the origin of Internet or cell phone data. But I think the “51%” rule violates the spirit (if not the letter) of the 4th Amendment’s protection against unreasonable search and seizure, and I’d prefer to see a protocol that would err on the side of assuming it’s a US citizen in cases where the metadata doesn’t provide a clear location.

All I can say is: WORD.

The FISA Court is better under Obama than it was under Bush, but dear lord, it’s still freaking iffy.

More regulation — or, at least, more openly available suggestions about what might be actionable in this sense — are very much welcomed into the process.

At least by me.

124 chadu  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 7:09:11pm

re: #8 Kragar

*SPIT*

125 chadu  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 7:11:30pm

re: #25 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Because the current GOP are unfeeling, unthinking, evil bastards to a person.

126 chadu  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 7:14:41pm

re: #52 Travis Bickle

Charles’s magic “warrant” is a fig leaf. The FISA court is a guaranteed rubber stamp.

No, it’s not.

It’s a negotiated warrant, passed through many rounds of the judges saying bullshit and the prosecutors revising to suit.

Pay goddamn attention to facts.

127 chadu  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 7:16:32pm

re: #79 Joanne

Fuckers.

128 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 7:17:08pm

re: #124 chadu

*SPIT*

Image: 1603256.jpg?297

(Public health poster from the 1918 flu.)

129 chadu  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 7:19:33pm

re: #95 FemNaziBitch

Men, your thoughts?

I want this film to be made, but I don’t want to watch it.

I lived it already.

Does that help?

130 chadu  Thu, Jul 11, 2013 7:21:42pm

re: #128 Decatur Deb

Image: 1603256.jpg?297

(Public health poster from the 1918 flu.)

Noted.


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