Greenwald on the Amash Amendment: Obama Is Literally in Cahoots With GOP

XXX Outrage Porn
Wingnuts • Views: 25,437

Oh Glenn. Any excuse to stroke your Obama Derangement Syndrome, right?

The rabidly pro-war and anti-Muslim GOP former Chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee, Peter King, has repeatedly lavished Obama with all sorts of praise and support for his policies in those areas. The Obama White House frequently needs, and receives, large amounts of GOP Congressional support to have its measures enacted or bills its dislikes defeated. The Obama DOJ often prevails before the US Supreme Court solely because the Roberts/Scalia/Thomas faction adopts its view while the Ginsburg/Sotomayor/Breyer faction rejects it (as happened in February when the Court, by a 5-4 ruling, dismissed a lawsuit brought by Amnesty and the ACLU which argued that the NSA’s domestic warrantless eavesdropping activities violate the Fourth Amendment; the Roberts/Scalia wing accepted the Obama DOJ’s argument that the plaintiffs lack standing to sue because the NSA successfully conceals the identity of which Americans are subjected to the surveillance).

It’s amazing how much reality can give way before one’s righteous indignation. Someone needs to stage an intervention on Glenn before he overdoses. Oops, too late.

The [Amash] amendment was simple. It would de-fund one single NSA program: the agency’s bulk collection of the telephone records of all Americans that we first revealed in this space, back on June 6. It accomplished this “by requiring the FISA court under Sec. 215 [of the Patriot Act] to order the production of records that pertain only to a person under investigation”.

That’s right, Mr. Creosote! One wafer-thin NSA program! Although one might be a bit suspicious that a measure proposed by legislators who claimed they didn’t know much about the program might not actually accomplish their goals. It’s also interesting that the NDAA-2013, which the Amash amendment amended, never gets brought up, probably because of this uncomfortable detail:

Guantanamo Bay - The legislation prohibits funding for transfers of Guantanamo detainees to the U.S. or its territories, prohibits funding to modify any facility in the U.S. to house detainees, and places conditions on the release of detainees to other countries. These provisions are similar to language contained in the fiscal year 2013 Defense Appropriations legislation.

Because what the NSA might do with all that metadata is just so much more anti-liberty than shoving food tubes up indefinitely-detained prisoners’ rectums. But let’s ignore that for a moment. Back to hating on Democrats, Glenn!

The White House then condemned Amash/Conyers this way: “This blunt approach is not the product of an informed, open, or deliberative process.” What a multi-level masterpiece of Orwellian political deceit that sentence is. The highly surgical Amash/Conyers amendment - which would eliminate a single, specific NSA program of indiscriminate domestic spying - is a “blunt approach”, but the Obama NSA’s bulk, indiscriminate collection of all Americans’ telephone records is not a “blunt approach”. Even worse: Amash/Conyers - a House bill debated in public and then voted on in public - is not an “open or deliberative process”, as opposed to the Obama administration’s secret spying activities and the secret court that blesses its secret interpretations of law, which is “open and deliberative”. That anyone can write a statement like the one that came from the Obama White House without dying of shame, or giggles, is impressive.

Two wrongs make a right! It’s almost as if reflexive de-funding of programs you don’t like is a bad way to solve problems. I suppose the dig about openness and accountability is fair, though.

So the history of Democratic leaders such as Nancy Pelosi isn’t one of opposition to mass NSA spying when Bush was in office, only to change positions now that Obama is. The history is of pretend opposition - of deceiving their supporters by feigning opposition - while actually supporting it.

The Democrats are really sekrit neocons! They’re colluding against true Liberty Patriot Warriors! Break out the tinfoil!

Gah, it goes on and on like this. Glenn really likes the sound of his own keyboard, doesn’t he? So brave.

Jump to bottom

708 comments
1 Political Atheist  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 2:45:56pm

It is outrage porn. Utterly dysfunctional. And just as a cherry on top, a brilliant example of why the Patriot act had (has if you really, really believe hard enough) a sunset clause. If that clause had been allowed to take the normal and expected course we would not have any of this mess on our collective hands. This is no conspiracy, just the known magnetic properties of increased power at the national intelligence level.

Of course there will always be segments of each party that will happily ally with like minded fellows from thee other side who also want to expand or extend or renew extraordinary / temporary powers. They will usually outnumber those of us who just love a good sunset.

Did we really need all this FISA/Patriot Act stuff to beat a bunch of 11th century killers in a dirt poor country already bombed over time and again?
Really? Maybe but if so apparently the evidence is classified. As is the evidence that might give ordinary Americans standing in a possible legal action to see what the NSA/FBI actually keeps.

2 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 4:37:37pm

Great post. Promoted!

3 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 4:44:36pm

I’ll take self righteous for 1000, Alex.

4 darthstar  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 4:46:55pm

Fuck you, Glenn. That is all.

5 Gus  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 4:49:27pm

The rabidly pro-war and anti-Muslim GOP former Chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee, Peter King, has repeatedly lavished Obama with all sorts of praise and support for his policies in those areas.
— Glenn Greenwald

This is called poisoning the well.

6 Gus  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 4:50:55pm

See! See! Obama is buddies with “the rabidly pro-war and anti-Muslim GOP former Chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee, Peter King!”

7 Gus  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 4:52:44pm

Taps monitor.

8 Gus  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 4:54:27pm

“What a multi-level masterpiece of Orwellian political deceit that sentence is!!” Orwell is the deus ex machina of today’s pundit class.

9 darthstar  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 4:55:01pm

re: #7 Gus

Taps monitor.

Displaying shit like Greenwald is enough to make the monitor want to tap back.

10 Gus  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 4:56:01pm

re: #9 darthstar

Displaying shit like Greenwald is enough to make the monitor want to tap back.

What a multi-level masterpiece of Orwellian political deceit that sentence is!!!!! //

Like I just said on Twitter, “I’m sure Greenwald would probably like to say Goebbels like instead of Orwellian.”

11 b.d.  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 4:57:12pm

You get one bite at the apple Glenn, you lose. Peak freakout has passed and Greenwald is relegated to looking like a flopping carp left on the boat dock.

12 darthstar  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 4:58:27pm

I’ve almost got my anger up enough to go get on public transit. I think I’ll slow walk to the train station today…enjoy the sites. Smile at a few people. Take a deep breath when the big guy with red hair and a beard comes down the sidewalk on his skateboard smoking a joint like he always does this time of day.

13 Bubblehead II  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 4:58:32pm

Night Lizards. As always, May the Deity of your choice smile down upon you and yours.

14 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 4:59:16pm

There’s a lot of this going around these days. From the Dkos Rec list….
The NSA - Hiding a Shadow Government Behind a Haystack, “To Keep Us Safe”

15 b.d.  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 4:59:36pm

re: #10 Gus

What a multi-level masterpiece of Orwellian political deceit that sentence is!!!!! //

Like I just said on Twitter, “I’m sure Greenwald would probably like to say Goebbels like instead of Orwellian.”

So tired of the fauxgressives and Orwell. They are sounding like 1984 is the only book they have ever read, totally ignorant mirror image of the Baggers and Atlas Shrugged

16 Gus  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 4:59:49pm

So Greenwald went from an Orwellian nightmare to ” That anyone can write a statement like the one that came from the Obama White House without dying of shame, or giggles, is impressive.”

Giggles?

17 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 5:00:18pm

Oh, my fucking head!

18 Gus  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 5:03:51pm

Did Amash and/or Conyers even consult with the White House? That’s typically how when helps get legislation passed.

19 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 5:04:54pm

Who wrote this?

Americans are entitled to, and ought to, use this same standard for deciding what America should do in the international arena. If Ignatius wants to argue that America is engaged in evil and counter-productive acts, or that it now employs the tools of totalitarian repression which it used to fight against, then he should say so, and should object to the policies which he opposes on their merits. There are lots of substantive grounds for making those arguments.

But advancing the argument that America’s actions are wrong by hiding behind how things look “in the eyes of the rest of the world these past few years” displays both illogic and intellectual cowardice. Contrary to Ignatius’ unstated assumption, an unpopular U.S. foreign policy is not the same as a misguided or evil U.S. foreign policy, and indeed, the former is not even evidence of the latter.

It may be beneficial to U.S. interests to have other countries like what we are doing, but being popular in other countries is not an end in itself. The U.S. can and should pursue whatever measures it deems appropriate to protect its national interests. The fact that the populations or governments of other countries perceive those measures to be excessive or unwarranted is to be expected because those countries have different threat perceptions and divergent interests. And, for exactly that reason, their approval or disapproval cannot be used to assess the rightness of, let alone to dictate, American foreign policy.

20 EPR-radar  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 5:05:51pm

Part of good lawyering is not over-stating the arguments one wants to make in such a way as to lose credibility.

It also helps to keep the arguments simple, clear, and to the point.

Greenwald is certainly not a journalist, and he doesn’t even appear to be an effective advocate for his views.

21 b.d.  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 5:06:13pm

re: #14 Killgore Trout

There’s a lot of this going around these days. From the Dkos Rec list….
The NSA - Hiding a Shadow Government Behind a Haystack, “To Keep Us Safe”

What a paranoid pile of horsesh*t. Love how kos told the nutjobs just how annoyingly stupid they were just before he walked out for an extended vacation.

22 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 5:06:15pm

A: the same guy who now gleefully retweets every negative opinion poll about the US.

23 Gus  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 5:08:49pm

re: #22 Charles Johnson

A: the same guy who now gleefully retweets every negative opinion poll about the US.

“The U.S. can and should pursue WHATEVER MEASURES IT DEEMS APPROPRIATE to protect its national interests!”

24 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 5:09:00pm

Always wanted to be “in cahoots’. Carries the air of old leather and hand-rolled tobacco, and frijole farts.

25 b.d.  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 5:09:21pm

re: #22 Charles Johnson

A: the same guy who now gleefully retweets every negative opinion poll about the US.

World opinion didn’t matter when Bush was Prez., only now for some befuddling reason?

26 EPR-radar  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 5:14:41pm

re: #23 Gus

“The U.S. can and should pursue WHATEVER MEASURES IT DEEMS APPROPRIATE to protect its national interests!”

For me, the funniest thing about that Greenwald piece is that his main point is that the opinions of foreigners on US foreign policy are and should be irrelevant to US policy makers.

If we generalize this a bit to all US policy, then GG has made an argument for the irrelevance of all of his commentary relating to US policy.

27 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 5:15:28pm

re: #23 Gus

“The U.S. can and should pursue WHATEVER MEASURES IT DEEMS APPROPRIATE to protect its national interests!”

The whole post is an argument for the US doing whatever the fuck it thinks it needs to do, and the rest of the world can fuck right off if it doesn’t like it.

AMERICA FUCK YEAH!

28 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 5:16:39pm

It’s obvious that Glenn hasn’t actually been in the USA for quite some time.

29 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 5:16:47pm

re: #18 Gus

Did Amash and/or Conyers even consult with the White House? That’s typically how when helps get legislation passed.

With legislation that has no chance of passing there’s usually a coordinated effort that allows a certain number of legislators to vote for the sole purpose of pandering to certain demographics. Just like when Obama as a senator voted against raising the debt limit. He did it, not because he actually believed that it was a good idea to not raise the limit, but because he wanted to pander to the anti-Republican masses who helped him get elected a few years later. It’s just a method to pander to idiots.

30 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 5:17:23pm

re: #26 EPR-radar

For me, the funniest thing about that Greenwald piece is that his main point is that the opinions of foreigners on US foreign policy are and should be irrelevant to US policy makers.

If we generalize this a bit to all US policy, then GG has made an argument for the irrelevance of all of his commentary relating to US policy.

That was then, this is now. Please look at my flashy-thing.

31 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 5:17:44pm

re: #21 b.d.

What a paranoid pile of horsesh*t. Love how kos told the nutjobs just how annoyingly stupid they were just before he walked out for an extended vacation.

Did he? I missed that.

32 jaunte  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 5:18:00pm
33 EPR-radar  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 5:18:06pm

re: #27 Charles Johnson

The whole post is an argument for the US doing whatever the fuck it thinks it needs to do, and the rest of the world can fuck right off if it doesn’t like it.

AMERICA FUCK YEAH!

The Peace Prize has its issues (e.g., Arafat), but it remain significant that Obama got the Peace Prize merely for not being another crazy jackass like Dubya.

34 jaunte  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 5:22:32pm

re: #23 Gus

“The U.S. can and should pursue WHATEVER MEASURES IT DEEMS APPROPRIATE to protect its national interests!”

I guess it’s all in who’s the deemer.

35 b.d.  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 5:25:00pm

re: #31 Killgore Trout

In his “Ask me Anything” diary is was obvious he was about sick of their sh*t.

Well, if you think Obama is a Republican backed by right-wing policies, then yeah, perhaps this place isn’t for you. This, after all, is a reality-based community.

And this site’s goals have always been “more and better Democrats”, so not sure what you are talking about since you clearly don’t share that.

by kos on Fri Jul 19, 2013 at 04:46:10 PM CDT

One of many good kos comments in that post

36 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 5:25:05pm

re: #34 jaunte

I guess it’s all in who’s the deemer.

as long as it is blessed by The Redeemer

37 jaunte  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 5:25:43pm

re: #36 Sol Berdinowitz

Sometimes that first deem doesn’t stick.

38 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 5:26:06pm

Here’s the GG promo for libertarianism from the same piece, sounds almost teabaggish:

“To say that there is a major sea change underway - not just in terms of surveillance policy but broader issues of secrecy, trust in national security institutions, and civil liberties - is to state the obvious. But perhaps the most significant and enduring change will be the erosion of the trite, tired prism of partisan simplicity through which American politics has been understood over the last decade. What one sees in this debate is not Democrat v. Republican or left v. right. One sees authoritarianism v. individualism, fealty to The National Security State v. a belief in the need to constrain and check it, insider Washington loyalty v. outsider independence.

39 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 5:26:16pm

After 9/11, the entire US copped a big attitude.

40 twisty  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 5:26:19pm

re: #32 jaunte

Aha, that explains a lot — there’s a profit motive riding behind all this. And for Assange who’s now running for office, a power motive. Wikileaks & co are dipping their paws in the honey.

41 klys  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 5:26:47pm

re: #29 Killgore Trout

With legislation that has no chance of passing there’s usually a coordinated effort that allows a certain number of legislators to vote for the sole purpose of pandering to certain demographics. Just like when Obama as a senator voted against raising the debt limit. He did it, not because he actually believed that it was a good idea to not raise the limit, but because he wanted to pander to the anti-Republican masses who helped him get elected a few years later. It’s just a method to pander to idiots.

Yanno, I bemoan the lack of nuance in both wingnuts and emoprogs, but I have to say it occasionally pops up in the overly-cynical as well.

42 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 5:27:30pm

re: #39 Charles Johnson

After 9/11, the entire US copped a big attitude.

But we played hurt and walked it off.

43 b.d.  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 5:28:07pm

re: #32 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Shouldn’t the e-book version of Glenn’s book be available to all for free?

44 jaunte  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 5:29:17pm

re: #43 b.d.

“Getting this information out is just. that. critical.”

45 EPR-radar  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 5:30:10pm

re: #41 klys

Yanno, I bemoan the lack of nuance in both wingnuts and emoprogs, but I have to say it occasionally pops up in the overly-cynical as well.

FWIW, I think the entire concept of a Congressional debt limit should be dispensed with completely. Either it is a meaningless rubber stamp, or it is the source of a manufactured crisis. Neither seems productive.

46 makeitstop  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 5:31:00pm

re: #32 jaunte

Glenn Greenwald Will Write a Book on Snowden and the NSA

‘Cash in now, honey…cash in now…’

47 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 5:32:15pm

That’s what “Team America: World Police” was mocking/feeding/exploiting. That big ‘tude.

48 klys  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 5:32:28pm

re: #45 EPR-radar

FWIW, I think the entire concept of a Congressional debt limit should be dispensed with completely. Either it is a meaningless rubber stamp, or it is the source of a manufactured crisis. Neither seems productive.

Agreed.

On the other hand, I get politics. I get that sometimes, you are voting against something because you want to express displeasure with how it is being used (*coughtofundtwowarscough*) and not just because you think it’s a great plan to shut down the federal government.

NUANCE. It’s what’s for dinner.

49 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 5:32:51pm

Don’t forget, also, that GG has abandoned the American press and now prefers the foreign one, too.

50 b.d.  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 5:34:21pm

re: #49 Justanotherhuman

Don’t forget, also, that GG has abandoned the American press and now prefers the foreign one, too.

He still has his last buddy Howie Kurtz to count on.

51 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 5:35:28pm

re: #50 b.d.

He still has his last buddy Howie Kurtz to count on.

When will Fox give GG a gig? It’s coming.

52 EPR-radar  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 5:37:04pm

re: #48 klys

Agreed.

On the other hand, I get politics. I get that sometimes, you are voting against something because you want to express displeasure with how it is being used (*coughtofundtwowarscough*) and not just because you think it’s a great plan to shut down the federal government.

NUANCE. It’s what’s for dinner.

It is certainly much easier to make a principled argument against raising the debt limit during the Bush years, where the budget busters were voluntary tax cuts, a voluntary second war in Iraq, and a voluntary addition to Medicare in the form of a giveaway to big pharma.

The financial crisis and Great Recession lack that important element of being volunteered for.

53 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 5:38:58pm

Wow.

They’re getting very bold with this twisted turnspeak. He’s implying that liberals are “pro-death,” and need a “pro-life” side to counter it.

Not the first time for this snaky right wing rhetoric, but this one’s pretty blatant.

54 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 5:39:34pm

re: #35 b.d.

In his “Ask me Anything” diary is was obvious he was about sick of their sh*t.

One of many good kos comments in that post

He has made several efforts over the years to weed out the nuts. He did get them to dial back some of the gross demonetization of Jews and Israel. He also banned 9-11 truth and Ron Paul diaries. I’ll always applaud efforts of people to keep their own house clean but I really doubt he’s going to make much headway. The “reality based community” is a bit of a joke and today’s political culture is based on each side having their own separate versions of reality. That’s not going to change anytime soon and populist sites like Dkos are unlikely to become champions of reasonable political discourse.

55 klys  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 5:39:58pm

Man. From the husband is bored at work department:

Once upon a time, another pilot fell short at SFO …and no one even got wet.

56 A Mom Anon  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 5:41:35pm

re: #53 Charles Johnson

Douthat is an idiot, always has been. Stupid ass crunchy con nonsense, he never should have got a writing gig in the first place, he sucks.

57 klys  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 5:42:51pm

re: #54 Killgore Trout

He has made several efforts over the years to weed out the nuts. He did get them to dial back some of the gross demonetization of Jews and Israel. He also banned 9-11 truth and Ron Paul diaries. I’ll always applaud efforts of people to keep their own house clean but I really doubt he’s going to make much headway. The “reality based community” is a bit of a joke and today’s political culture is based on each side having their own separate versions of reality. That’s not going to change anytime soon and populist sites like Dkos are unlikely to become champions of reasonable political discourse.

Do you really think that the Democrat party, as a whole, has a separate view of reality?

What about the Republican party?

Do you feel that extremists have equal control in both parties?

58 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 5:42:51pm

re: #56 A Mom Anon

Well, the RW is full of suckers and suckees.

59 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 5:45:40pm

re: #57 klys

Do you really think that the Democrat party, as a whole, has a separate view of reality?

What about the Republican party?

Do you feel that extremists have equal control in both parties?

no
no
…and no

60 Mateo Scrounge  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 5:45:42pm

re: #53 Charles Johnson

Wow.

[Embedded content]

They’re getting very bold with this twisted turnspeak. He’s implying that liberals are “pro-death,” and need a “pro-life” side to counter it.

Not the first time for this snaky right wing rhetoric, but this one’s pretty blatant.

Pro-life liberalism? You mean like advocating the inclusion of contraception as preventive medicine in health coverage? Or advocating the funding of Planned Parenthood? Or advocating for effective sex education that doesn’t rely on slutshaming?

All of these are far more effective in reducing the number of abortions than passing 20-week bans, and all without trampling anyone’s rights.

Douthat can go piss up a rope.

61 EPR-radar  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 5:46:04pm

re: #54 Killgore Trout

He has made several efforts over the years to weed out the nuts. He did get them to dial back some of the gross demonetization of Jews and Israel. He also banned 9-11 truth and Ron Paul diaries. I’ll always applaud efforts of people to keep their own house clean but I really doubt he’s going to make much headway. The “reality based community” is a bit of a joke and today’s political culture is based on each side having their own separate versions of reality . That’s not going to change anytime soon and populist sites like Dkos are unlikely to become champions of reasonable political discourse.

(emphasis added) I’ll push back on this a bit. There is nothing in the US left or center left that matches the Fox News/RW noise machine bubble in terms of creating an alternate reality. The US left and center left deal with reality, the RWNJs do not.

There is no equivalence here. Some tiny fringe of moonbats may be as reality-denying as the RWNJ leadership, but such moonbats have no political power, and therefore do not suffice to make a case for equivalence.

62 Iwouldprefernotto  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 5:46:27pm

re: #53 Charles Johnson

Wow.

[Embedded content]

They’re getting very bold with this twisted turnspeak. He’s implying that liberals are “pro-death,” and need a “pro-life” side to counter it.

Not the first time for this snaky right wing rhetoric, but this one’s pretty blatant.

And I’d like to see a “Compassionate Conservative,” but I would have more luck spotting a Unicorn.

63 jaunte  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 5:47:27pm
I’d genuinely like to see a pro-life liberalism?

And this in response to someone calling him a troll.

64 thedopefishlives  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 5:47:39pm

Evening Lizardim.

65 klys  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 5:48:21pm

re: #59 Killgore Trout

no
no
…and no

Ok. I appreciate the answers.

Your writing sometimes makes it very easy to interpret otherwise, as someone who has not been here from the beginning of the site.

66 EPR-radar  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 5:51:29pm

re: #53 Charles Johnson

Wow.

[Embedded content]

They’re getting very bold with this twisted turnspeak. He’s implying that liberals are “pro-death,” and need a “pro-life” side to counter it.

Not the first time for this snaky right wing rhetoric, but this one’s pretty blatant.

Two can play at this kind of rhetoric game. There is certainly more material available to make the case that the RW “pro-lifers” are actually a death cult than to make the case that liberals are “pro-death”.

67 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 5:56:57pm

re: #47 Charles Johnson

That’s what “Team America: World Police” was mocking/feeding/exploiting. That big ‘tude.

And the puppet sex.

68 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 5:58:53pm

The gift (actually the booby prize) that just keeps on giving:

69 EPR-radar  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:02:53pm

re: #47 Charles Johnson

That’s what “Team America: World Police” was mocking/feeding/exploiting. That big ‘tude.

A few years ago, I saw the first season of 24 for the first time.

It struck me that presenting this kind of story with God’s eye narration (i.e., the viewer knew the bad guys were plotting away) may have been an effective tool for normalizing the idea that torture should be used to get relevant information.

A 24 with the viewer having no more information than Jack Bauer et al. would have been significantly different, IMO.

70 ProTARDISLiberal  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:03:39pm

I was shocked that the controversial thing in my page last night wasn’t Romance in Doctor Who, but my assertion that the TV Movie was bad.

Granted, I will still watch to see Paul McGann, but it had problems.

Not as many as Love & Monsters though. Whovians try to forget that story ever happened.

71 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:04:43pm

So, to these kind of people we’re seeing, any compromise and working out of differences, the quid pro quo of politics, which is required for getting things done for the people who elected you to do so, is no longer acceptable? Only for the extremists like GG, teabaggers, and those on the extremes of the political continuum, I suppose. Sure, Ds and Rs alike sometimes push the envelope a bit—after all, even good lawyers know you always ask for more than you know you’ll get.

Adults who know how the world works accept this—political crybabies like GG don’t.

72 Gus  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:04:51pm
73 thedopefishlives  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:06:11pm

re: #72 Gus

I sense a great disturbance in the Force. It is as if a million wingnuts creamed their jeans in unison.

74 EPR-radar  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:08:39pm

re: #73 thedopefishlives

I sense a great disturbance in the Force. It is as if a million wingnuts creamed their jeans in unison.

Eew. Brain bleach.

More seriously, wingnuts would have no use for Greenwald because he would definitely fail the so-con purity test.

75 Mateo Scrounge  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:09:18pm

re: #73 thedopefishlives

I sense a great disturbance in the Force. It is as if a million wingnuts creamed their jeans in unison.

Even the Liberal Glenn Greenwald…OH,GOD,OH,GOD,OH GOD!!!! YES!! YES!! YESSSSS!!!!!11!!!!!1!!

76 b.d.  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:09:22pm

re: #72 Gus

[Embedded content]

Aaarrrggghhh!!!

77 thedopefishlives  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:09:45pm

re: #75 Mateo Scourge

Even the Liberal Glenn Greenwald…OH,GOD,OH,GOD,OH GOD!!!! YES!! YES!! YESSSSS!!!!!11!!!!!1!!

Aaaaaand there goes the thread. Also, you owe me a new keyboard.

78 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:09:52pm

re: #73 thedopefishlives

You just made a million Lizards throw up in their mouths.

79 thedopefishlives  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:10:45pm

re: #78 Vicious Babushka

You just made a million Lizards throw up in their mouths.

Clearly a sign of my recovering health. It’s good to be back.

80 b.d.  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:10:52pm

re: #72 Gus

[Embedded content]

Fair and Balanced.

81 engineer cat  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:11:15pm

re: #74 EPR-radar

Eew. Brain bleach.

More seriously, wingnuts would have no use for Greenwald because he would definitely fail the so-con purity test.

much is allowed if you only provide fresh reasons to hate the preferred targets

82 Mateo Scrounge  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:12:35pm

re: #81 engineer cat

much is allowed if you only provide fresh reasons to hate the preferred targets

It’s the converse of what happens when a wingnut wakes up and starts talking sense.

83 klys  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:13:28pm

So that fancy-pants diploma I am so proud of?

They borked a signature. I need to get another one.

…oh, and their webform doesn’t recognize me as eligible for a new one. And I got billed again (with a hold!) last month to boot.

84 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:13:54pm

re: #82 Mateo Scourge

It’s the converse of what happens when a wingnut wakes up and starts talking sense.

Has that happened yet?

85 klys  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:14:31pm

re: #84 Justanotherhuman

Has that happened yet?

You’re not supposed to judge them for what happens when they’re drunk.

/////

86 Gus  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:14:50pm
87 William of Orange  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:16:58pm

I knew we Dutchies were good at something….

Image: vHWBwrZh.png

Damn French beat us…

88 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:17:22pm

re: #57 klys

Do you really think that the Democrat party, as a whole, has a separate view of reality?

What about the Republican party?

Do you feel that extremists have equal control in both parties?

The Magical Balance Fairy has equal control over both sides of Killgore’s brain.

89 b.d.  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:17:39pm

re: #86 Gus

[Embedded content]

I Report & Decide.

90 thedopefishlives  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:19:03pm

re: #87 William of Orange

I knew we Dutchies were good at something….

Image: vHWBwrZh.png

Damn French beat us…

Only just, though.

91 wrenchwench  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:20:03pm


Later, lizards.

92 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:33:12pm

Haywood is still carrying on the longest KILL ME NOW STINKY FLOUNCE in LGF history.

93 thedopefishlives  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:34:13pm

re: #92 Vicious Babushka

Haywood is still carrying on the longest KILL ME NOW STINKY FLOUNCE in LGF history.

Oh, is it going away? I keep watching his Pages pop up when I check LGF in the morning. It’s a good exercise in critical thinking, having to look past the lies to figure out what the article actually says.

94 darthstar  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:34:45pm
95 Norbrook  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:35:22pm

re: #54 Killgore Trout

He has made several efforts over the years to weed out the nuts. He did get them to dial back some of the gross demonetization of Jews and Israel. He also banned 9-11 truth and Ron Paul diaries. I’ll always applaud efforts of people to keep their own house clean but I really doubt he’s going to make much headway. The “reality based community” is a bit of a joke and today’s political culture is based on each side having their own separate versions of reality. That’s not going to change anytime soon and populist sites like Dkos are unlikely to become champions of reasonable political discourse.

One of the problems for Kos was that the pretty much handed the keys to his site over to the wingnut left at the end of 2009 (drove traffic up). A great many of the “pragmatic” liberals (myself among them) decided to pack our bags and get out of there. A few purges of others, including long-standing communities, occurred over the next couple of years. So any attempt on his part to “dial down the crazy” is a case of closing the barn door after the horse has gone.

96 Gus  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:35:36pm

re: #92 Vicious Babushka

Haywood is still carrying on the longest KILL ME NOW STINKY FLOUNCE in LGF history.

I’m trying stay out of that mess. Last time things got seriously weird!

97 jaunte  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:35:46pm

While they’re at it, maybe they can discourage more people from getting their kids vacccinated.

“…With the Obama administration poised for a huge public education campaign on healthcare reform, Republicans and their allies are mobilizing a counter-offensive including town hall meetings, protests and media promotions to dissuade uninsured Americans from obtaining health coverage…”
……………
FreedomWorks and Americans for Prosperity, a conservative issue group financed by billionaire brothers David and Charles Koch, known for funding conservative causes, are planning separate media and grassroots campaigns aimed at adults in their 20s and 30s - the very people Obama needs to have sign up for healthcare coverage in new online insurance exchanges if his reforms are to succeed.

“We’re trying to make it socially acceptable to skip the exchange,” said Dean Clancy, vice president for public policy at FreedomWorks, which boasts 6 million supporters. The group is designing a symbolic “Obamacare card” that college students can burn during campus protests.
reuters.com

98 thedopefishlives  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:37:03pm

re: #96 Gus

I’m trying stay out of that mess. Last time things got seriously weird!

Good news, though - it looks like we will be dining on freshly grilled gamey troll buttocks soon. Traditional Southern Barbecue for this one, I think.

99 Gus  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:37:23pm
100 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:39:00pm

re: #97 jaunte

You mean the white adults in their 20s and 30s the RW is encouraging to have a dozen kids?

That should work out well.

101 funky chicken  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:39:29pm
shoving food tubes up indefinitely-detained prisoners’ rectums

I don’t think that’s how/where you insert feeding tubes.

102 darthstar  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:39:47pm
103 lawhawk  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:39:48pm

re: #19 Charles Johnson

Your spoiler tag needs to have a River Song (Alex Kingston) sound clip saying spoilers….

That would make it absolutely perfect.

Youtube Video

But here’s the thing - a widely admired policy could just as well be wrong. A policy that gets tremendous outrage could be the right course of action. The two do not go hand in hand. Of course, it would be nice if the widely admired policy is also morally correct, but that’s not always the case.

At the same time, this shouldn’t create gridlock and a lack of any action whatsoever until such time that the policy is admired and correct. Sometimes you have no choice but to act based on the situation at hand (like say in who to recognize in a civil war, a coup, or revolution). Doing nothing in Syria may make sense politically, and even from a security sense, but morally could be wrong - precisely because of the carnage that Assad is spreading across the country.

But I digress - because clearly Greenwald’s agenda no longer matches his old rhetoric. He’s moved on…

104 freetoken  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:39:56pm

re: #97 jaunte

While they’re at it, maybe they can discourage more people from getting their kids vacccinated.

I always thought the idea that all kids ought to have shoes as being an unnecessary burden on society, don’tcha think?

105 klys  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:40:09pm

re: #92 Vicious Babushka

Haywood is still carrying on the longest KILL ME NOW STINKY FLOUNCE in LGF history.

I think this is definitely a case of smart-enough-to-stick-to-the-Pages where it’s lasting well beyond the sell-by date.

Also, ewww, misogynist shit. Not that the username wasn’t bad enough, but…

106 darthstar  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:40:35pm

re: #102 darthstar

Sorry…the country hick in me came out and I had to share that chuckle.

107 jaunte  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:40:40pm

re: #100 Justanotherhuman

I know burning the fake Obamacare card is going to be big on campus.

108 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:41:03pm

re: #105 klys

I think this is definitely a case of smart-enough-to-stick-to-the-Pages where it’s lasting well beyond the sell-by date.

Also, ewww, misogynist shit. Not that the username wasn’t bad enough, but…

He thinks Decatur is a girl so he spewed sexist shit.

109 klys  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:41:27pm

re: #108 Vicious Babushka

He thinks Decatur is a girl so he spewed sexist shit.

I saw that.

And cringed.

And then wanted to slap something.

110 thedopefishlives  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:43:21pm

re: #108 Vicious Babushka

He thinks Decatur is a girl so he spewed sexist shit.

Yeah, that one’s not long for this world.

111 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:43:57pm

re: #96 Gus

I’m trying stay out of that mess. Last time things got seriously weird!

When things get weird, the weird turn pro.

112 alpuz  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:44:55pm

re: #53 Charles Johnson

Late to the game, but yep, they seem to be all in.

113 lawhawk  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:45:04pm

re: #27 Charles Johnson

It’s a realpolitik argument - nation states follow their own vested interests. They act in concert when it suits them, forming alliances if necessary to further a common goal, but willing to go alone when the circumstances dictate.

It’s the same philosophy that’s guided nation states for centuries.

But now we’re supposed to ignore all that in favor of the new Greenwald paradigm.

114 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:46:04pm

re: #108 Vicious Babushka

re: #109 klys

On the Intertubes, all girls are 70-yr old men.

115 twisty  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:48:49pm

re: #95 Norbrook

One of the problems for Kos was that the pretty much handed the keys to his site over to the wingnut left at the end of 2009 (drove traffic up). A great many of the “pragmatic” liberals (myself among them) decided to pack our bags and get out of there. A few purges of others, including long-standing communities, occurred over the next couple of years. So any attempt on his part to “dial down the crazy” is a case of closing the barn door after the horse has gone.

I remember clearly being a fresh new lib trying to catch up on everything I had been sheltered from, and thought that would be a nice home for me to settle in and figure things out. The misogyny there quickly chased that notion out of me. If that wasn’t bad enough, I remember being talked down to by several people about how fighting for same sex marriage rights was inconvenient and hurt Dem chances at the polls with independents, so just sit down and save it for later. We’ll get to it sometime. Promise! And that was the last straw. They sure are good at chasing people away.

116 lawhawk  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:48:58pm

re: #114 Decatur Deb

And cops.

117 Gus  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:49:02pm

re: #111 Decatur Deb

When things get weird, the weird turn pro.

That explains the deleted Tweets.

118 klys  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:50:05pm

re: #114 Decatur Deb

On the Intertubes, all girls are 70-yr old men.

It’s funny, because the woman who served as the best man at our wedding at one point wrote an e-mail to my (now) husband cautioning him that I might be a 13 year old boy.

Needless to say I am not and that potential misconception has been cleared up (not that I object because I know where it comes from).

I forgive mistaken gender. I don’t forgive sexually tinged rebuttals that imply oral sex (which may or may not be willing).

119 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:50:33pm

re: #108 Vicious Babushka

He thinks Decatur is a girl so he spewed sexist shit.

That’s why they’re called dudebros.

120 klys  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:51:18pm

re: #119 Charles Johnson

That’s why they’re called dudebros.

Annnnnnnnnnnnd this is why Fark still doesn’t get you.

121 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:51:43pm

re: #119 Charles Johnson

That’s why they’re called dudebros.

Always see that as “dudebras”. It’s… disturbing.

122 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:51:51pm

re: #119 Charles Johnson

That’s why they’re called dudebros.

Haywood is a rudebro.

123 klys  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:52:08pm

re: #122 Vicious Babushka

Haywood is a rudebro.

A rudedudebro!

124 klys  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:53:06pm

re: #123 klys

A rudedudebro!

A rudedudeGlewdebro.

I should probably stop this while I am behind.

125 darthstar  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:56:38pm

Saw a great Dos Equis commercial the other day, where “The Most Interesting Man In The World” talks about Bromance. He said, “I have no idea what that is.”

Ha!

126 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:56:48pm

AND THEY HAVE THEIR GREEDY EYES ON THE TREASURES IN THE DIA.

127 ericblair  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:57:25pm

re: #8 Gus

“What a multi-level masterpiece of Orwellian political deceit that sentence is!!” Orwell is the deus ex machina of today’s pundit class.

Which is also a little ironic coming from Greenwald. The real gems of Orwell’s work aren’t 1984 and Animal Farm; he’s got several nonfiction books like Road to Wigan Pier and an anthology of essays that lay out his political thought, and he had a few things to say about the socialists of his day and political writing.

First of all, he’d have a few works about Greenwald’s loghorrea, “pretentious diction”, and “Marxist writing”. In his time, he kicked over a hornet’s nest by going off on the Socialists in the forward to Road to Wigan Pier and his essays. Essentially, the Socialists ended up being reflexively anti-British and pro-Soviet until it was impossible to pretend that Stalin wasn’t a genocidal maniac. He also pointed out that the worst advertisement for Socialism were the Socialists, who insisted on odd clothing and diet, talked in ideological soundbites, and couldn’t relate at all to average citizens who didn’t have the luxury of sitting around worrying about philosophical bullshit.

Orwell had enough of middle class revolutionary ideologues and wasn’t afraid to say so.

128 klys  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 6:58:08pm

Lesson learned: when doing laundry, the down pillows go last, not first.

Why yes, there might be a line for the dryer.

129 jaunte  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 7:00:08pm

re: #127 ericblair

He also pointed out that the worst advertisement for Socialism were the Socialists, who insisted on odd clothing and diet, talked in ideological soundbites, and couldn’t relate at all to average citizens who didn’t have the luxury of sitting around worrying about philosophical bullshit.

There’s a lot of that going around lately.

130 ProTARDISLiberal  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 7:02:12pm

re: #125 darthstar

Link to the commercial?

131 ProTARDISLiberal  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 7:04:41pm

Hey, I gotta Netflix Question.

132 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 7:05:54pm
My point is, as civilization is progressing, Mosaic law came down from the mountain, was handed to civilization, it emerged through the Greek civilization as the Greeks were developing their Age of Reason. And we’re talking about the foundation of Western Civilization, and almost concurrently with that, Roman law was emerging as well.

Steve King, defending his claim that DREAMers are drug mules with giant Popeye-like calf muscles.

I find that if you only read the statement with your peripheral vision, you lose less brain cells.

133 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 7:09:18pm

re: #132 The Ghost of a Flea

Steve King, defending his claim that DREAMers are drug mules with giant Popeye-like calf muscles.

I find that if you only read the statement with your peripheral vision, you lose less brain cells.

That’ll get you an ‘A’ at Liberty U.

134 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 7:10:28pm

Another butthurt wingnut called out on Fake Quote

135 Gus  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 7:11:36pm

re: #134 Vicious Babushka

Another butthurt wingnut called out on Fake Quote

[Embedded content]

Straw man double deluxe.

136 freetoken  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 7:11:59pm

re: #132 The Ghost of a Flea

My point is, as civilization is progressing, Mosaic law came down from the mountain, was handed to civilization, it emerged through the Greek civilization as the Greeks were developing their Age of Reason. And we’re talking about the foundation of Western Civilization, and almost concurrently with that, Roman law was emerging as well.

Not a very good summary of what happened the past 4 thousand years or so.

137 twisty  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 7:12:47pm

re: #131 ProTARDISLiberal

Hey, I gotta Netflix Question.

No guarantees on a good answer, but I’ll try.

138 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 7:13:09pm

re: #135 Gus

Straw man double deluxe.

Why should anyone give half a shit for “Real Quote” by random dumbass? Now watch: somebody (maybe Prudence) will make a graphic out of it and attribute it to Ronald Reagan or somebody.

139 jaunte  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 7:14:29pm

re: #132 The Ghost of a Flea

My point is, as civilization is progressing, Mosaic law came down from the mountain, was handed to civilization, it emerged through the Greek civilization as the Greeks were developing their Age of Reason. And we’re talking about the foundation of Western Civilization, and almost concurrently with that, Roman law was emerging as well. And as a result, we won half of what was then Mexico!”

140 OhNoZombies!  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 7:15:12pm

25 random thoughts on current events, by Kurt Eichenwald, that made me giggle.

….
5. All anti-abortion protesters should be presented, on the spot, with an application to sign up as foster parents. They should also be given the names of children in their area in need of adoptive parents. And if they won’t sign or volunteer, they should shut up.

6. If abortions could be performed with a gun, would some pro-gun, anti-abortion heads explode from conflicted thoughts, like a computer might when faced with the question “Could Jesus cook a burrito so hot that he himself couldn’t eat it?”

7. Whenever someone says zygotes are babies, I reply: “Imagine a thousand zygotes in test tubes in one room, and three toddlers in another. A fire breaks out, and you only have time to get to one room. Which would you save from burning, the zygotes or the children?” It’s so much fun to watch the forced-birthers try to wriggle out of the conundrum created by their bumper-sticker slogans.

8. Anyone who says that women don’t get pregnant from rape, or that rape kits performed by law enforcement prevent pregnancy, or that fetuses masturbate, has to return to eighth grade. Of course, only in a state with a good sex-education program.

9. Why is it some conservatives think inserting inspectors into dangerous factories is government intrusion, but inserting devices for sonograms into women’s vaginas isn’t?

141 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 7:15:21pm

A communique from the Secret Global Zionist ACORN Headquarters and Conspiracy Compound:

Greetings, comrades! It is unfortunate that the proles have found out about our assimilation of Boehner and his hench-people, but this is no real cause for concern. While they may complain to the rafters there is precious little they can do about it. The false flag conspiracy theorists we have planted throughout the media have succeeded in spreading disinformation, misinformation, and plain bullshit until the gullible elements have no idea what, or whom, to believe. It is only a side benefit (though a significant one) that we have simultaneously raked in a lot of cash on sales of, and advertising for, gold, survival gear, home-schooling, and other worthless pacifiers for the gullible. Expect a bonus in your next check.

142 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 7:15:57pm

DERP

143 klys  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 7:17:12pm

re: #142 Vicious Babushka

My brain is clearly broken as that comic makes absolutely zero sense.

Or cents.

144 ProTARDISLiberal  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 7:19:00pm

re: #137 twisty

I went to Netflix to watch Doctor Who ovewr Streaming. One problem.

Out of the 157 Stories of Classic Who, they only have 18 available for streaming. I am a grumpy panda. Why exactly? And will the free month cover DVDs too?

145 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 7:19:13pm

re: #142 Vicious Babushka

DERP

[Embedded content]

Truth is what we want

not

THE truth is what we want.

Best Freudian slip I’ve seen in a while.

146 OhNoZombies!  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 7:19:18pm

re: #143 klys

My brain is clearly broken as that comic makes absolutely zero sense.

Or cents.

No, it’ll make sense if you stop thinking.
Just…turn off your brain and let the DERP run through you…
:-)

147 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 7:20:34pm
148 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 7:21:45pm

re: #141 Shiplord Kirel

How about a special font for the “evil lizardoid conspirator” mode?

149 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 7:22:30pm

Every “Real Quote” from every Twitter wingnut ever:
DERP DERP HURR HURR DEEDLY DERPTY DOO!!

Stubbed my toe in the dark. BLAME OBAMA!!11
I gained 3 lbs. this week. BLAME OBAMA!!11
Stuck in traffic. BLAME OBAMA!!11
Raccoons got into the garbage bags. BLAME OBAMA!!11
Had a fight with my wife/husband. BLAME OBAMA!!11

How it must utterly suck all the time to be them.

150 Mateo Scrounge  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 7:22:30pm

re: #146 OhNoZombies!

Turn off your mind, relax and float downstream.

It is derping,

It is derping.

With apologies to George Harrison.

151 jaunte  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 7:22:32pm

It’s just a slippery slope away from the 30-font war.

152 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 7:22:55pm

re: #148 Shiplord Kirel

How about a special font for the “evil lizardoid conspirator” mode?

There actually is one. You’re just now allowed to use it…and live….

153 Bear  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 7:26:15pm

re: #147 Charles Johnson

Look at the size o the leg on the kitten to the right. Wonder just how huge it will be when grown.

154 Kragar  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 7:27:39pm

re: #147 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Not real cats.

No globular clusters.

155 Kragar  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 7:28:43pm

re: #152 The Ghost of a Flea

There actually is one. You’re just now allowed to use it…and live….

I post using it all the time, but only real lizards can see it.


See?

156 Mateo Scrounge  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 7:28:49pm

re: #152 The Ghost of a Flea

There actually is one. You’re just now allowed to use it…and live….

It’s invisible to any who aren’t in on the conspiracy.

157 Mateo Scrounge  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 7:29:28pm

Nuts! Missed it by 6 seconds!!

158 Mateo Scrounge  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 7:30:48pm

re: #154 Kragar

Not real cats.

No globular clusters.

Aren’t the globular clusters usually in the back, and only the males have ‘em?

159 Kragar  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 7:31:35pm

re: #158 Mateo Scourge

Aren’t the globular clusters usually in the back, and only the males have ‘em?

Depends on their diet.

160 twisty  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 7:32:23pm

re: #144 ProTARDISLiberal

I went to Netflix to watch Doctor Who ovewr Streaming. One problem.

Out of the 157 Stories of Classic Who, they only have 18 available for streaming. I am a grumpy panda. Why exactly? And will the free month cover DVDs too?

I’m not totally sure why, but I think they like to keep licensing costs low by not hosting the less popular shows. There’s probably some break-even point where the popularity & ad money outweighs the cost of hosting and licensing fees. Netflix can sometimes be really screwy on what they have available — it took an unbelievably long time for Mad Men season 5 to show up for example.

As for the DVDs, I’m not sure, if you don’t remember them mentioning it when you signed up and if it doesn’t let you order a DVD it’s probably not available.

161 Gus  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 7:35:42pm

re: #149 Vicious Babushka

Every “Real Quote” from every Twitter wingnut ever:
DERP DERP HURR HURR DEEDLY DERPTY DOO!!

Stubbed my toe in the dark. BLAME OBAMA!!11
I gained 3 lbs. this week. BLAME OBAMA!!11
Stuck in traffic. BLAME OBAMA!!11
Raccoons got into the garbage bags. BLAME OBAMA!!11
Had a fight with my wife/husband. BLAME OBAMA!!11

How it must utterly suck all the time to be them.

Obama causes all the things!

163 Mateo Scrounge  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 7:37:28pm

re: #161 Gus

Obama causes all the things!

Wait, if that’s true, Obama must be GOD!!!!!

164 ProTARDISLiberal  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 7:37:44pm

re: #160 twisty

I did look, and I can get a one-month free trial on the DVDs as well.

But that runs into another problem. As I am still at home looking for jobs, my Dad has become even more authoritarian. I have no idea what would happen if he saw that in the mail. And an alternate address would be difficult, as I am now very isolated.

This is why I am not thinking about going to Pennsylvania, Ohio, or Michigan. I have family in Pennsylvania and Michigan, and Ohio is in between with easy access to both.

165 ProTARDISLiberal  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 7:39:33pm

Started with the Aztecs. A few minutes in and Susan Foreman is already on my nerves. More so than either Rose or River Song. Actually opposite order on that.

166 twisty  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 7:42:13pm

re: #164 ProTARDISLiberal

I did look, and I can get a one-month free trial on the DVDs as well.

But that runs into another problem. As I am still at home looking for jobs, my Dad has become even more authoritarian. I have no idea what would happen if he saw that in the mail. And an alternate address would be difficult, as I am now very isolated.

This is why I am not thinking about going to Pennsylvania, Ohio, or Michigan. I have family in Pennsylvania and Michigan, and Ohio is in between with easy access to both.

Oh, that’s a shame. Is his problem with Netflix, or Doctor Who? It might be worth looking into Amazon Instant, iTunes, and Hulu to see if they have more episodes than Netflix.

167 ProTARDISLiberal  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 7:44:19pm

re: #166 twisty

If he doesn’t have control, he explodes. That simple.

168 twisty  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 7:47:06pm

re: #167 ProTARDISLiberal

If he doesn’t have control, he explodes. That simple.

I’m sorry to hear that. Here’s hoping you get a chance to leave that situation soon.

169 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 7:49:00pm

re: #155 Kragar

I post using it all the time, but only real lizards can see it.

See?

The lizard emperor’s new font.

170 ProTARDISLiberal  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 7:52:00pm

Though, I am impressed with Hartnell.

171 Kragar  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 7:52:32pm

WHY DID NO ONE TELL ME THIS EXISTED?

Garth Marenghi’s Darkplace

Youtube Video

172 OhNoZombies!  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 7:54:49pm
173 Kragar  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 7:56:51pm
174 engineer cat  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 7:56:53pm

he War on Poverty, which President Lyndon Johnson declared nearly 50 years ago, has “failed miserably,” House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan said Thursday — and he wants to figure out what approaches would work to get Americans out of poverty.

“When I look at the money spent, when I look at the programs created, when I look at the miserable outcomes and the high poverty rates, as a policy maker, (I say) ‘We can do better than this and we need to figure out how.’”

why do i get the feeling that the solution will involve tax cuts and the elimination of medicaid, the minimum wage, and food stamps?

175 ProTARDISLiberal  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 7:56:57pm

re: #172 OhNoZombies!

To be honest, I don’t know.

Moffat (or, according to what he said at Comic-Con, Fat) created both monsters, so he would know.

I would imagine that the Angel moves closer and forgets why.

176 engineer cat  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 7:58:01pm

Asked what is his party’s anti-poverty plan is, Ryan told NBC News: “I don’t think we have a full-fledged agenda yet, because we need to do more listening to people who in the trenches fighting poverty

i always pick somebody who knows nothing at all about the subject to fix difficult and intractable problems

177 Carlos Danger  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 7:58:25pm

‘Family Guy’ is heading to Springfield

How many more iniquities is this series going to suffer before it burns out utterly

178 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 8:03:09pm

re: #174 engineer cat

why do i get the feeling that the solution will involve tax cuts and the elimination of medicaid, the minimum wage, and food stamps?

When all you’ve got is a hammer, everything looks like a tax cut.

179 HoosierHoops  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 8:16:59pm

Damn it! We have to revisit the Zimmerman trial again.. I was over it and every effen detail has been rehashed and discussed.
It’s not my fault.. I have to react to what B-29 Juror revealed today.
Ok..All bullshit and opinions aside.. This is what really happened inside that room.. The world on the outside looking in..
I have never been on a jury.
So she said today that George Z. Got away with murder..That the law didn’t allow her any choice..And she showed her face..A very brave woman..
So now what do you think Lizards? Was she hamstrung by the law and heartbroken with a choice weighting like a 16 ton boulder on her soul.
You guys may not like what I’m going to write..

I think B-29 was looking for a way out..A cop out and attempting a sympathetic personhood for the media..( Book deal )
Let me explain folks..
If you really believed that Georgie committed murder and was going to freaking get away with murder..Well you know what? You could have hung that fucking jury and held out till the end..If that is what you truely hold fast in your heart..Then you hold out and hang the jury..This is America..Nobody held a gun to your head and made you go against your belief..Of all the 10’s of thousands of jury members who upheld their oath
to the Court and the American Justice system..You Fail..You fail big time.
You could have stood up and said nobody leaves until we get at the least a manslaughter charge here and stand your Ground..
If you really believed that..
So go on the Today show or 60 minutes now and tell us what a heartbreaking period you went through..I think you should just shut the fuck up and go away..But that’s just me..
See ya in the morning on TV B-29..What was your name again?
You didn’t just fail the system. You failed yourself.

180 Gus  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 8:24:11pm
181 engineer cat  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 8:26:38pm

Juror B-29

what i want to know is when these jurors are gonna add up to bingo

182 OhNoZombies!  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 8:27:39pm

re: #179 HoosierHoops

I think she went home, and her family was like, “WTF !?!?”
It wasn’t brave to show her face, it was stupid. Now everywhere she goes, she’s gonna get the side-eye from everyone.

Not good for a person who’s decisions are based on what others think.

183 Political Atheist  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 8:27:57pm

re: #179 HoosierHoops

My take is GZ really shoulda got manslaughter. And a sentence on the long side. Took a life without intent to do so IMO. I have been on a jury. And done a federal trial as an expert, had to be crossed etc. Even defended my employer twice on the stand.

One thing that hits a newb right between the eyes is the power of the laws and rules that are way bigger than you. You are truly constrained and it’s a bitch. You dig down and work inside the lines. Not to disagree with ya, just speaking to what I saw.

184 Stanley Sea  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 8:29:03pm

Checking out Pete Souza’s instagram.

instagram.com

185 Gus  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 8:30:25pm

re: #184 Stanley Sea

Checking out Pete Souza’s instagram.

instagram.com

Does Karate move! KWA! //

186 OhNoZombies!  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 8:32:01pm

The only thing is, I can’t help but feel the prosecution either didn’t or couldn’t do it’s job.

The whole case, from start to finish was one big cock-up.

187 Stanley Sea  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 8:34:25pm

re: #185 Gus

Does Karate move! KWA! //

Just random!!

188 Gus  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 8:36:28pm

re: #187 Stanley Sea

Just random!!

All you can do sometimes.

189 Political Atheist  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 8:38:47pm

re: #186 OhNoZombies!

It’s a tragic screaming reminder that the more you truly understand about using force the more you understand to not let it happen. Walk away, let it go. Buy a drink, make an apology. Call it a bad day. It can go so bad so fast. As fast as a man can move a hand or finger.

190 HoosierHoops  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 8:38:52pm

re: #183 Political Atheist

My take is GZ really shoulda got manslaughter. Ans a sentence on the long side. Took a life without intent to do so IMO. I have been on a jury. And done a federal trial as an expert, had to be crossed etc. Even defended my employer twice on the stand.

One thing that hits a newb right between the eyes is the power of the laws and rules that are way bigger than you. You are truly constrained and it’s a bitch. You dig down and work inside the lines. Not to disagree with ya, just speaking to what I saw.

Thanks for your input..Like I said..Never been on a jury..Just say’n ( probably too strong but this Chimay beer just rocks )
I just think she is a woman looking for a way out..( Yup..I riffed a line from a movie..Tin Cup..)
Anyhoo..How is D_L doing? Taken any great pictures?
I got a shot on my cell of the storm going overhead on it’s way over to Moore..Dang! That tornado was wicked..I think it turned out to be a F5..I was ready to piss my pants as it roared overhead..Woa!..Bro..We ain’t in Kansas any more..

191 gwangung  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 8:40:43pm

re: #174 engineer cat

he War on Poverty, which President Lyndon Johnson declared nearly 50 years ago, has “failed miserably,” House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan said Thursday — and he wants to figure out what approaches would work to get Americans out of poverty.

Ryan is lying.

I repeat, Ryan is LYING.

The Great Society’s War on Poverty was having great success, bringing more and more people out of poverty…..UNTIL the Reagan administration started dismantling anti poverty programs.

OF COURSE the programs won’t work if you dismantle them.

192 Political Atheist  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 8:44:45pm

re: #190 HoosierHoops

Dragon Lady is good. Has her potted plant service for part time. We do get out with the cameras. Sometimes it goes well. Love that storm photography, at a safe distance anyway. Just about sending our short thriller out to the film festivals, and in pre prod. on a making purple 19k gold webcast/documentary. Everything moves so fast it seems.

193 Kragar  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 8:45:34pm

Four More Women Come Forward to Accuse Filner

On Thursday, four more women publicly identified themselves on San Diego’s KPBS as targets of Filner’s unwanted sexual advances — bringing to seven the number of accusers who have come forward this week. They include a retired Navy rear admiral, a dean at San Diego State University and the head of the city’s Ports Tenants Association.

Yet Filner, like Weiner, shows no sign of quitting, fueling talk of a recall effort less than eight months into his four-year term. Filner refused to discuss the allegations when hounded by reporters at public appearances Thursday, saying they should be addressed through legal channels.

“Let’s take a deep breath, let that process work itself out. Meanwhile, we got a city to run,” he said.

194 Amory Blaine  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 8:46:44pm

Hey guys, been going through some personal health shit lately but thought I’d stop by and give you your dose of Wisconsin wingnuttery.

State makes Capitol singalong arrests for second straight day

For the second straight day, Capitol police on Thursday arrested protesters of Gov. Scott Walker who have long defied his administration’s permitting rules during noontime singalong rallies in the statehouse rotunda.

Following Wednesday’s arrest of 22 demonstrators, the numbers in the rotunda for the Thursday singalong appeared to at least double. Roughly 120 people sang and many others looked on or stood by in support, with the mood of the crowd more electric and defiant than the day before.

Police issued 26 citations Thursday for participating in an event without a permit. Additionally, one person was charged with disorderly conduct, another was charged with resisting arrest and a third person was charged with both disorderly conduct and resisting arrest.

The demonstrators sang union and civil rights songs such as “Eyes on the Prize” and never stopped, despite the steady stream of arrests.

Repeatedly, a column of officers marched into the center of the rotunda, handcuffed several generally unresisting protesters and led them to the basement to be ticketed. As they departed, the demonstrators broke out in chants of “Shame! Shame! Shame!” taunting the police and denouncing the governor.

Makes me feel bad I can’t get out to Mad Town. I’d love to croon a couple bars!!

195 engineer cat  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 8:55:57pm

re: #191 gwangung

Ryan is lying.

that’s redundant

196 engineer cat  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 9:02:25pm

“how can you tell when rya-“

“you can see his lips move”

197 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 9:05:58pm

Posts like this are why I left Fark.

Is it Poe’s law? Is it irony? Who knows. It’s fucking dumb as shit:

You can’t have it both ways, Lib. You guys love to play the race card to keep the flames -a- burning, but won’t acknowledge when someone other than white kills randomly too. Was that black guy racist? Probably not. But when a white person kills a black person, it’s now 100% racist? That’s some my-T-fine hypocrisy you’ve ginned up for yourself. You should be, like, a democrat or something.

198 OhNoZombies!  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 9:06:15pm

re: #196 engineer cat

“how can you tell when rya-“

“you can see his lips move”

Yep. If Ryan told me the sky was blue, I’d double check.

199 alpuz  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 9:14:17pm

“You can’t have it both ways, Lib.”

200 engineer cat  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 9:15:03pm

re: #199 alpuz

“You can’t have it both ways, Lib.”

that’s funny

201 engineer cat  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 9:18:14pm

re: #197 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Posts like this are why I left Fark.

Is it Poe’s law? Is it irony? Who knows. It’s fucking dumb as shit:

this is the same technique as one i saw in another rant quoted here a few days ago:

1. assert straw man liberal

2. strenuously avoid noticing the obvious
(in this case, the existence of circumstances that sometimes lead to some murders not being exactly the same as other murders, for some reason…)

3. profit!

202 alpuz  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 9:19:55pm

re: #201 engineer cat

3. profit!

…and with that, I’m out. Good night folks.

203 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 9:20:18pm

re: #140 OhNoZombies!

25 random thoughts on current events, by Kurt Eichenwald, that made me giggle.

Incidentally, in the side bar is a link to an articled entitled, “Photos: The Top 10 Best-Dressed Actresses Under 30”.

This is why we can’t have nice things.

204 Heywood Jabloeme  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 9:20:57pm

re: #1 Political Atheist

It is outrage porn. Utterly dysfunctional. And just as a cherry on top, a brilliant example of why the Patriot act had (has if you really, really believe hard enough) a sunset clause. If that clause had been allowed to take the normal and expected course we would not have any of this mess on our collective hands. This is no conspiracy, just the known magnetic properties of increased power at the national intelligence level.

Of course there will always be segments of each party that will happily ally with like minded fellows from thee other side who also want to expand or extend or renew extraordinary / temporary powers. They will usually outnumber those of us who just love a good sunse

Obama has extended it TWICE.

Did we really need all this FISA/Patriot Act stuff to beat a bunch of 11th century killers in a dirt poor country already bombed over time and again?
Really? Maybe but if so apparently the evidence is classified. As is the evidence that might give ordinary Americans standing in a possible legal action to see what the NSA/FBI actually keeps.

205 Heywood Jabloeme  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 9:22:09pm

I love watching when you guys all get together and impress each other. Sort of like an orgy in Arkansas.

206 Kragar  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 9:26:12pm

I sense a douchebag in the force

207 blueraven  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 9:26:24pm

re: #205 Heywood Jabloeme

I love watching when you guys all get together and impress each other. Sort of like an orgy in Arkansas.

Says the guy with the redneck nic

208 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 9:28:14pm

re: #177 Carlos Danger

‘Family Guy’ is heading to Springfield

How many more iniquities is this series going to suffer before it burns out utterly

If a genie offered me the choice between living in

1) a world without death and suffering; OR
2) a world that never did and never could produce “Family Guy”

it would be an extremely difficult choice, because they are very nearly identical.

209 OhNoZombies!  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 9:28:54pm

re: #205 Heywood Jabloeme

I love watching when you guys all get together and impress each other. Sort of like an orgy in Arkansas.

So, other than trolling, you love watching orgies in Arkansas.
Very telling…

210 Kragar  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 9:30:10pm

re: #209 OhNoZombies!

So, other than trolling, you love watching orgies in Arkansas.
Very telling…

Not much else for him to do at his family reunions.

211 OhNoZombies!  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 9:33:09pm

re: #210 Kragar

Not much else for him to do at his family reunions.

What, his sister doesn’t like him?

212 Heywood Jabloeme  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 9:34:40pm

I may like watching them but you obviously like being part of the obsequious, lick spittal, toady gang bang of ignorance that is common here.

By the way, the Aemdment was titled “Amash- Conyers”. You know, Conyers widely known, well at least in the LGF inner circle, as a “pseudo-libertarian”.

213 Lancelot Link, Drooling Jingosist  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 9:34:44pm

Obama has extended it TWICE.

Isn’t it odd how, when Congress passes a law with a veto-proof majority, all the ODS-sufferers describe it as something Obama did.
Some folks always gotta blame the black man.

214 OhNoZombies!  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 9:42:56pm

re: #212 Heywood Jabloeme

I may like watching them but you obviously like being part of the obsequious, lick spittal, toady gang bang of ignorance that is common here.

By the way, the Aemdment was titled “Amash- Conyers”. You know, Conyers widely known, well at least in the LGF inner circle, as a “pseudo-libertarian”.

Ok smarty, impress me with your insight.
Join in on the fun, but don’t bury yourself in pages, or wait until everyone is gone.
Throw it out there for all to see, you font of wisdom.

215 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 9:43:34pm

re: #205 Heywood Jabloeme

I love watching when you guys all get together and impress each other. Sort of like an orgy in Arkansas.

I resent that remark. We are much more like a Louisiana gangbang.

216 BongCrodny  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 9:47:40pm

re: #205 Heywood Jabloeme

I love watching when you guys all get together and impress each other. Sort of like an orgy in Arkansas.

Bloeme.

217 Heywood Jabloeme  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 9:54:29pm

re: #214 OhNoZombies!

Ok smarty, impress me with your insight.
Join in on the fun, but don’t bury yourself in pages, or wait until everyone is gone.
Throw it out there for all to see, you font of wisdom.

In the end every Democrat covered their asses by voting for an Amendment that gave the finger to Obama.

A Majority (111) of Congressional Democrats voted to the AMASH-CONYERS Amendment. But all voted for the feckless Amendmant proposed by the Republican Chairman of the House Intel Committtee that had wording the seemed to halt the program but would in effect, do nothing.

So even those “non-pseudo-libertarian” Democrats felt the need to give Obama the middle finger and vote for a fig leaf.

Those are FACTS. How’s that for wisdom?

218 Heywood Jabloeme  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 9:55:07pm

re: #215 The Ghost of a Flea

I resent that remark. We are much more like a Louisiana gangbang.

has more spice.

219 Heywood Jabloeme  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 9:58:13pm

re: #213 Lancelot Link

Obama has extended it TWICE.

Isn’t it odd how, when Congress passes a law with a veto-proof majority, all the ODS-sufferers describe it as something Obama did.
Some folks always gotta blame the black man.

What does this point mean? If they were passed with Veto proof majorities and he thought they were wrong he could have stood on principle and amde them vote to overide them. But he likes them as his numerous court defenses has shown. Doesn’t the DOJ work for him? They didn’t defend DOMA but have used every trick in the book to defend the Patriot Act. Obama loves him some Domestic Spying.

220 klys  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 9:59:35pm

Thought I heard something, but it must have been wind.

221 Heywood Jabloeme  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 10:03:52pm

re: #220 klys

Thought I heard something, but it must have been wind.

It must have been the genesis of an original thought, but then you farted it away.

222 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 10:07:23pm

re: #217 Heywood Jabloeme

In the end every Democrat covered their asses by voting for an Amendment that gave the finger to Obama.

A Majority (111) of Congressional Democrats voted to the AMASH-CONYERS Amendment. But all voted for the feckless Amendmant proposed by the Republican Chairman of the House Intel Committtee that had wording the seemed to halt the program but would in effect, do nothing.

So even those “non-pseudo-libertarian” Democrats felt the need to give Obama the middle finger and vote for a fig leaf.

Those are FACTS. How’s that for wisdom?

Wow, it’s almost like there’s an election next year and those Democrats in red states might have to run against Republicans selling themselves as being against Obama. Damn, weird how that works.

///

223 Mateo Scrounge  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 10:09:24pm

I’m shocked - SHOCKED! - to find gambling politics going on here in Congress!

224 Kragar  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 10:11:25pm

re: #223 Mateo Scourge

I’m shocked - SHOCKED! - to find gambling politics going on here in Congress!

Your winnings Sir.

225 Mateo Scrounge  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 10:12:51pm

re: #224 Kragar

Your winnings Sir.

Oh! Thank you very much.

226 klys  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 10:13:04pm

re: #221 Heywood Jabloeme

It must have been the genesis of an original thought, but then you farted it away.

Nope, pretty sure that wasn’t it.

Maybe it was one of the cats.

227 Mateo Scrounge  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 10:17:04pm

So, I’m gathering that Heywood is the local pet troll.

228 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 10:18:09pm

re: #227 Mateo Scourge

So, I’m gathering that Heywood is the local pet troll.

He’s the president, vice-president, secretary, and only member of the LGF Edward Snowden fan club.

229 klys  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 10:18:14pm

re: #227 Mateo Scourge

So, I’m gathering that Heywood is the local pet troll.

…pretty much.

I mean, apparently he used to be more reasonable and mostly confined to the Pages, but then Snowden happened. He only comes out to play in the main thread every few days, mostly because the smart trolls have realized they last longer when they keep the derping to Pages.

230 darthstar  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 10:19:19pm

So anyway…My wife calls me at about 4:45 this afternoon and I say, “Where are you?” and she says, “I’m in the car headed home.” and I say, “Cool…we get to have dinner together tonight…we’ve got lots of vegetables, would you like to pick up some protein or should I?” and she says, “I’ll take care of it.” and I say, “Cool. Love you. See you soon.” and when I get home I open the refrigerator and there’s a LIVE THREE POUND LOBSTER STARING AT ME. Jesus fucking christ, I’m glad I didn’t tell her to get beef.

We made a coconut butter curry with lobster, by the way, and it was lovely. Instead of boiling it (vegans look away), I parted the not-so-little guy out with a cleaver, then quick fried the different bits in coconut oil and set aside…then I started the curry and put the cracked and fried bits back in the sauce to simmer for about 15 more minutes.

Oh, and if you want to know what a 3lb lobster looks like, here it is before it got to “meat” Mr. Cleaver:

Image: 1012428_10151764555768024_1012337563_n.jpg

231 OhNoZombies!  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 10:20:03pm

re: #217 Heywood Jabloeme

In the end every Democrat covered their asses by voting for an Amendment that gave the finger to Obama.

A Majority (111) of Congressional Democrats voted to the AMASH-CONYERS Amendment. But all voted for the feckless Amendmant proposed by the Republican Chairman of the House Intel Committtee that had wording the seemed to halt the program but would in effect, do nothing.

So even those “non-pseudo-libertarian” Democrats felt the need to give Obama the middle finger and vote for a fig leaf.

Those are FACTS. How’s that for wisdom?

I keep reading your post, and I don’t see your point.
Do you really think they’re going to flat out cut funding for the NSA? I’m not sure Obama was even on board with that bill, so how is it giving him the finger?

232 freetoken  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 10:20:19pm

re: #229 klys

…pretty much.

I mean, apparently he used to be more reasonable and mostly confined to the Pages, but then Snowden happened.

Future bumper-stickers: Snowden Happens

233 klys  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 10:20:55pm

re: #230 darthstar

So…

When are you coming to my house to cook? I’m Bay Area, it shouldn’t be too bad a drive.

(Actually I am not a lobster person but all your food posts sound so good.)

234 klys  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 10:22:06pm

re: #232 freetoken

Future bumper-stickers: Snowden Happens

I was originally going to reference Greenwald but then it occurred to me that there are multiple opportunities there so Snowden was a better choice. Hah.

235 Heywood Jabloeme  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 10:22:17pm

re: #222 Targetpractice

Wow, it’s almost like there’s an election next year and those Democrats in red states might have to run against Republicans selling themselves as being against Obama. Damn, weird how that works.

///

Could be a good analysis but EVERY Democrat who didn’t vote for the first AMASH-CONYERS Amendment voted for the 2nd Fig leaf. In the last election cycle about ~ 80 of all the house races were even considered to be in contention. Most house races are now determined by primaries - even the Democrat ones. Read sources like the Cook Report or Nate Silver.

So let’s assume that there were some of those Dems who voted for the 2nd useless amendment did so out of polical expediency as you suggested. Let’s try and estimate how many. I don’t know that number but lets say 40 out of the 80 Dems did so. That leaves 205 - 40 = 165 that did so for some other reason. What could that be?

Could it be that they want to be able to claim, at a later date, that when a court declares the whole law and set of kangaroo courts etc unconsitutional that they have covered thier asses and voted against it?

Got a hint for ya. President Obama has only ~ 3 years left and will never run again. All of these congress people want to have their jobs much longer and unless you are in the redest of red districts having not voted against a fed domestic spying law that is subsequently found to be unconstituional makes it tough to be re-elected.

That is what makes this such a cynical political calculation on Obama’s part. The onlyh thing that he can ever be held accountable for is for dismantling a law that many of his own supporters say doesn’t work and having an attack. He can do like Bill Clinton did with DOMA. He can leave office and say “It was required at the time but I now regret it”.

236 freetoken  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 10:24:30pm

re: #235 Heywood Jabloeme

Could it be that they want to be able to claim, at a later date, that when a court declares the whole law and set of kangaroo courts etc unconsitutional that they have covered thier asses and voted against it?

You’re living in a fantasy.

237 freetoken  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 10:25:36pm

On another topic, the following headline is NOT from The Onion:

Economists finally test prisoner’s dilemma on prisoners

238 Heywood Jabloeme  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 10:25:37pm

re: #234 klys

I was originally going to reference Greenwald but then it occurred to me that there are multiple opportunities there so Snowden was a better choice. Hah.

I love it! It would look great on the bumpers of all of the Cars of the majority of the Hosue Dems and 23 Dem Senators who oppose Obama on this issue. It explains it all.

239 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 10:25:50pm

re: #235 Heywood Jabloeme

Could be a good analysis but EVERY Democrat who didn’t vote for the first AMASH-CONYERS Amendment voted for the 2nd Fig leaf. In the last election cycle about ~ 80 of all the house races were even considered to be in contention. Most house races are now determined by primaries - even the Democrat ones. Read sources like the Cook Report or Nate Silver.

So let’s assume that there were some of those Dems who voted for the 2nd useless amendment did so out of polical expediency as you suggested. Let’s try and estimate how many. I don’t know that number but lets say 40 out of the 80 Dems did so. That leaves 205 - 40 = 165 that did so for some other reason. What could that be?

Could it be that they want to be able to claim, at a later date, that when a court declares the whole law and set of kangaroo courts etc unconsitutional that they have covered thier asses and voted against it?

Got a hint for ya. President Obama has only ~ 3 years left and will never run again. All of these congress people want to have their jobs much longer and unless you are in the redest of red districts having not voted against a fed domestic spying law that is subsequently found to be unconstituional makes it tough to be re-elected.

That is what makes this such a cynical political calculation on Obama’s part. The onlyh thing that he can ever be held accountable for is for dismantling a law that many of his own supporters say doesn’t work and having an attack. He can do like Bill Clinton did with DOMA. He can leave office and say “It was required at the time but I now regret it”.

So your argument is that, one way or another, the majority of those Democrats who voted for it did so out of political expediency? Either flipping Obama the bird to look good in red states or to look good under the assumption that the law will one day be struck down anyway?

Doesn’t that sort of take the sting out of their flipping the bird, not that they did so out of conviction, but because they figure it’ll keep them in office longer?

240 darthstar  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 10:27:00pm

re: #233 klys

So…

When are you coming to my house to cook? I’m Bay Area, it shouldn’t be too bad a drive.

(Actually I am not a lobster person but all your food posts sound so good.)

Lobster was good, but it would have gotten me kicked off of Master Chef as it was overpowered by the curry. That show, by the way, sucks donkey dick. If you want to have a cooking competition, have one. But giving contestants not only “immunity” but the power to choose what ingredients their competitors get to use in elimination? That’s just fucked up. It turns “amateur” home chefs into reality TV assholes. Why must the networks fuck everything up. Christ, imagine if they did Sesame Street…on second thought, don’t…(shudder).

241 klys  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 10:28:58pm

re: #240 darthstar

I love curry. Japanese style. Mmmmmm. Curry chains in Japan let you choose your mix-ins so curry with mushrooms and tonkatsu and garlic with rice…

Ahem. We don’t go back until New Year’s, probably. I think that is what I miss the most (the curry).

My dinner was …couscous. With pico de gallo and feta cheese mixed in.

242 Weet  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 10:29:12pm

re: #140 OhNoZombies!

25 random thoughts on current events, by Kurt Eichenwald, that made me giggle.

That’s really good!

My personal favorite:

17. Wealthy folk need to stop whining about “class warfare.” Rich people having their heads impaled on pikes and marched through the town square is class warfare; paying three cents more in taxes on every dollar earned over $250,000 a year is not.

243 Heywood Jabloeme  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 10:37:16pm

re: #229 klys

…pretty much.

I mean, apparently he used to be more reasonable and mostly confined to the Pages, but then Snowden happened. He only comes out to play in the main thread every few days, mostly because the smart trolls have realized they last longer when they keep the derping to Pages.

Yep I am crushed. I actually get off watching how many of the uniformed LGF’er’s give them negative votes. I think that it HELARIOUS when I post something from the Atlantic that endorsed Obama TWICE, is publishing facts regrading Snowden / Greewald and in gets a lot of -1’s. I did an analysis and I actually get MORE views of a post the more -1’s I get.

I also love the fact that their is a certain symetry to the posts. When I post something that is negative to the GOP you love it. And then when I post something just as insightful and truthful regarding Snowden / Greenwald / NSA you hate it with just as much intensity.

In fact, this is the only really interesting part of posting here and I am sure that I will tire of it soon. You guys are like rats in a maze.

I do admit that my conceit is to periodically visit a chat and watch you guys cheer each other on as you make complete and total asses out of yourselves. Its also another psychological experiment in group think. I am really amused at how pleased you are with yourselves and I just can’t resist the urge to jump in and spoil it all.

244 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 10:37:35pm

People always seem to end up acting shocked when Congressional Democrats run for the nearest rock to hide under when a Democrat in the White House looks the least bit unpopular.

245 Heywood Jabloeme  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 10:38:43pm

re: #228 Targetpractice

He’s the president, vice-president, secretary, and only member of the LGF Edward Snowden fan club.

You are so right with this post. And you could add that I am also not a lick spital toady groupee.

246 Heywood Jabloeme  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 10:40:21pm

re: #236 freetoken

You’re living in a fantasy.

of course, you fail to say why but that is common around here huh? lots of opinion not many facts.

247 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 10:40:40pm

re: #245 Heywood Jabloeme

You are so right with this post. And you could add that I am also not a lick spital toady groupee.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

248 klys  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 10:43:25pm

Did Charles ever get that moonbat font established?

Because it would be awesome if it could be configured that certain users just posted in that as default.

249 Carlos Diggler  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 10:43:43pm

re: #246 Heywood Jabloeme

of course, you fail to say why but that is common around here huh? lots of opinion not many facts.

It is a fact that you’re an insufferable asshole. But you’re Our Insufferable Asshole, and that counts for something.

250 BongCrodny  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 10:49:05pm

From HuffPo:

Poll: Anthony Weiner’s Numbers Plummet After New Scandal Revelations

Christine Quinn now leads the primary field with 25 percent, followed by Weiner at 16 percent, and Bill de Blasio and Bill Thompson both at 14 percent. The last NBC/WSJ/Marist poll, taken in late June, had Weiner 5 points ahead of Quinn, 25 percent to 20 percent.

Anyone else think Weiner’s numbers look a little soft?

251 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 10:50:44pm

re: #245 Heywood Jabloeme

You are so right with this post. And you could add that I am also not a lick spital toady groupee.

Also, I wish I had a dime for every time I’ve heard this line used by a soon-to-be booted troll. You could very well just go ahead and dub it the “Internet Tough Guy Swan Song.” When you’re left with no better argument than to engage in insults towards the guy running the blog and the people who support him, then you’ve pretty much indicated you’ve no real interest in sticking around and are just seeing what shit you can get away with before the banhammer comes down on your head.

252 Heywood Jabloeme  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 10:52:01pm

re: #239 Targetpractice

So your argument is that, one way or another, the majority of those Democrats who voted for it did so out of political expediency? Either flipping Obama the bird to look good in red states or to look good under the assumption that the law will one day be struck down anyway?

Doesn’t that sort of take the sting out of their flipping the bird, not that they did so out of conviction, but because they figure it’ll keep them in office longer?

So your point that if you are a Dem and voted for the 2nd worthless amendment you are somehow not voting your principles but purely cyncially is totally correct.

But what is just a correct is the converse - all the Dems that voted for the AMASH-CONYERS Amendment that would actually shut the program down must have done so for some other reason. They litterally gave Obama the Finger, BTW - that was a MAJORITY of the Dems in Congresss.

253 Carlos Diggler  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 10:52:42pm

re: #250 BongCrodny

From HuffPo:

Poll: Anthony Weiner’s Numbers Plummet After New Scandal Revelations

Anyone else think Weiner’s numbers look a little soft?

OH HEY NOW THERE YA GO

254 Kragar  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 10:53:05pm

He lost me at argle bargle.

255 klys  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 10:53:43pm

re: #254 Kragar

He lost me at argle bargle.

I keep wanting to make it argyle bargle.

256 OhNoZombies!  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 10:55:04pm

re: #243 Heywood Jabloeme

Yep I am crushed. I actually get off watching how many of the uniformed LGF’er’s give them negative votes. I think that it HELARIOUS when I post something from the Atlantic that endorsed Obama TWICE, is publishing facts regrading Snowden / Greewald and in gets a lot of -1’s. I did an analysis and I actually get MORE views of a post the more -1’s I get.

I also love the fact that their is a certain symetry to the posts. When I post something that is negative to the GOP you love it. And then when I post something just as insightful and truthful regarding Snowden / Greenwald / NSA you hate it with just as much intensity.

In fact, this is the only really interesting part of posting here and I am sure that I will tire of it soon. You guys are like rats in a maze.

I do admit that my conceit is to periodically visit a chat and watch you guys cheer each other on as you make complete and total asses out of yourselves. Its also another psychological experiment in group think. I am really amused at how pleased you are with yourselves and I just can’t resist the urge to jump in and spoil it all.

See, that’s bullshit.

There is nothing wrong with having a different viewpoint. No one has a problem with that. The problem lies in your presentation…at least it does for me.

If you’re going to be an arrogant prick, call names, and fling shit around like a brat, then expect a poor reception.

However, if you’re willing to be open and, above all, respectful to people who’s experiences and perspectives are different from your own, then you are welcome.

Anyway, as i say to my own children (yeah, you seem young), keep it up, trolls don’t last long around here.

257 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 10:55:18pm

re: #252 Heywood Jabloeme

So your point that if you are a Dem and voted for the 2nd worthless amendment you are somehow not voting your principles but purely cyncially is totally correct.

But what is just a correct is the converse - all the Dems that voted for the AMASH-CONYERS Amendment that would actually shut the program down must have done so for some other reason. They litterally gave Obama the Finger, BTW - that was a MAJORITY of the Dems in Congresss.

So I’ve got a program that exists because veto-proof majorities in both houses of Congress voted for a 4 years extension…but I’m supposed to believe that in the intervening time since, suddenly all those Democrats found religion and decided that the program is wrong and they must vote against it despite the Democrat in the White House supporting it.

That strikes me as believable as all the Republicans who suddenly decided to start giving a damn about deficits, the debt, and “overspending” on Jan 21, 2009.

258 Heywood Jabloeme  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 10:59:07pm

re: #251 Targetpractice

Also, I wish I had a dime for every time I’ve heard this line used by a soon-to-be booted troll. You could very well just go ahead and dub it the “Internet Tough Guy Swan Song.” When you’re left with no better argument than to engage in insults towards the guy running the blog and the people who support him, then you’ve pretty much indicated you’ve no real interest in sticking around and are just seeing what shit you can get away with before the banhammer comes down on your head.

So, this could be true and I could be booted. Oh woe is me. But really there are worst fates and it wouldn’t be the first. In fact, I’ve had 5 different accounts at Red State and have all 5 banned. I’ll establish one called something like “UberPatriot” and start gently. Then start giving them real news that they don’t like then, as you said, they ban me. The only problem is that I can use Tor to request a new Account and they dont know it’s me coming back. I am sure that Charles is too smart for that though so if he bans me I am sure that I am forever toast. And you inbreds will be left all in your lonesome.

But I really don’t want to be banned. I like skirting the edge.

Besides, I drive alot of traffic for Charles.

259 klys  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 11:01:03pm

re: #258 Heywood Jabloeme

Besides, I drive alot of traffic for Charles.

The alot is better than you at everything.

260 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 11:02:45pm

re: #258 Heywood Jabloeme

So, this could be true and I could be booted. Oh woe is me. But really there are worst fates and it wouldn’t be the first. In fact, I’ve had 5 different accounts at Red State and have all 5 banned. I’ll establish one called something like “UberPatriot” and start gently. Then start giving them real news that they don’t like then, as you said, they ban me. The only problem is that I can use Tor to request a new Account and they dont know it’s me coming back. I am sure that Charles is too smart for that though so if he bans me I am sure that I am forever toast. And you inbreds will be left all in your lonesome.

But I really don’t want to be banned. I like skirting the edge.

Besides, I drive alot of traffic for Charles.

Ah, arrogance and stupidity, all in the same package. How efficient of you.

261 Kragar  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 11:04:55pm

re: #260 Targetpractice

Ah, arrogance and stupidity, all in the same package. How efficient of you.

Youtube Video

262 OhNoZombies!  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 11:05:16pm

What the Amash-Conyers amendment does NOT do:Amash blah, blah blah…

The amendment does not restrict the types of records that the government can collect under Sec. 215. NSA and the FBI can continue to collect telephone records, car rental reservations, hotel receipts, and any other “tangible thing” under Sec. 215. NSA can continue to collect telephone metadata without a warrant and without probable cause that a crime or other statutory violation has been committed. The amendment simply requires that there be a reasonable connection between the documents sought and the person under investigation.

A hastily drawn bill that would have shut down nothing.

263 Heywood Jabloeme  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 11:07:17pm

re: #256 OhNoZombies!

See, that’s bullshit.

There is nothing wrong with having a different viewpoint. No one has a problem with that. The problem lies in your presentation…at least it does for me.

If you’re going to be an arrogant prick, call names, and fling shit around like a brat, then expect a poor reception.

However, if you’re willing to be open and, above all, respectful to people who’s experiences and perspectives are different from your own, then you are welcome.

Anyway, as i say to my own children (yeah, you seem young), keep it up, trolls don’t last long around here.

I don’t know if I was clear in the post above but the VAST majority of the pages that I post are simply news from sources that are normally friendly to Obama but are carrying news on this issue that you don’t like. For instance, I posted this article from Greenwald in the Guardian and you guys hated it.

But this post added alot of factually incorrect or superfulous “editorial” comments and you got off on it.

Got a hint for ya dude. I know of NO center left website with as much of a taste for non-realistic Snowden talk as this one. Those exhibited here are mroe common to far right sites like Red State etc.

Is isn’t about my “presentation” its about a meme here on LGF.

This post is proof. Many other news sources had the same take at Greenwald did in this piece from the Gaurdian. Obama had his ass handed ti him by his own democrats, and yet you guys loved taking the piss out of this one because it was Greenwald in the Guardian.

You guys are so transparently tribal its laughable.

264 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 11:08:42pm

re: #262 OhNoZombies!

What the Amash-Conyers amendment does NOT do:Amash blah, blah blah…

The amendment does not restrict the types of records that the government can collect under Sec. 215. NSA and the FBI can continue to collect telephone records, car rental reservations, hotel receipts, and any other “tangible thing” under Sec. 215. NSA can continue to collect telephone metadata without a warrant and without probable cause that a crime or other statutory violation has been committed. The amendment simply requires that there be a reasonable connection between the documents sought and the person under investigation.

A hastily drawn bill that would have shut down nothing.

It’s as Heywood called it, a fig leaf. He just seems to believe in the fairy tale about dozens of Democrats suddenly seeing the light and deciding that now is the time to take a stand against the NSA and Obama…as opposed to 2 years ago, when these provisions were set to expire and Democrats made a show of demanding a real vote on a 4 year extension before voting by wide margins in favor.

265 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 11:10:34pm

re: #258 Heywood Jabloeme

So, this could be true and I could be booted. Oh woe is me. But really there are worst fates and it wouldn’t be the first. In fact, I’ve had 5 different accounts at Red State and have all 5 banned. I’ll establish one called something like “UberPatriot” and start gently. Then start giving them real news that they don’t like then, as you said, they ban me. The only problem is that I can use Tor to request a new Account and they dont know it’s me coming back. I am sure that Charles is too smart for that though so if he bans me I am sure that I am forever toast. And you inbreds will be left all in your lonesome.

But I really don’t want to be banned. I like skirting the edge.

Besides, I drive alot of traffic for Charles.

We get it. You’re a Special Snowflake Truth Sayer.

We’ve had about a half hundred of those, and every single one of them has been someone who half-reads the shit they post and then creates a creative writing composition they insist is The Truth. You seriously can’t tell, on a root comprehension level, where your super-special “interpretation” begins and actual data ends. As I used say to someone booted a few months ago, you’re so stupid you’re unable to recognize you’re stupid.

And if we don’t like it or don’t get the point, it’s because you smart, we stupid. Hivemind/groupthink/gangbang is invoked, blah, blah, blah.

You’re doing a formulaic martyrdom performance where The Bold Truth is really just an open variable. Just get the fuck on with it.

266 Heywood Jabloeme  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 11:12:51pm

re: #262 OhNoZombies!

What the Amash-Conyers amendment does NOT do:Amash blah, blah blah…

The amendment does not restrict the types of records that the government can collect under Sec. 215. NSA and the FBI can continue to collect telephone records, car rental reservations, hotel receipts, and any other “tangible thing” under Sec. 215. NSA can continue to collect telephone metadata without a warrant and without probable cause that a crime or other statutory violation has been committed. The amendment simply requires that there be a reasonable connection between the documents sought and the person under investigation.

A hastily drawn bill that would have shut down nothing.

From the website you linked to above:

The Amash-Conyers amendment ends NSA’s blanket collection of Americans’ telephone records. It does this by requiring the FISA court under Sec. 215 to order the production of records that pertain only to a person under investigation.

A few points:

This was good enough to get the majority of Hosue Dems to vote AGAINST Obama on it.

If it “would shut nothing down” what did Obama and his adminstration go into panick mode to keep the amendment from passing?

There are numersous other bills that would restrict what the Fed Govt can do also backed by the same Dems.

267 Heywood Jabloeme  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 11:14:31pm

re: #265 The Ghost of a Flea

We get it. You’re a Special Snowflake Truth Sayer.

We’ve had about a half hundred of those, and every single one of them has been someone who half-reads the shit they post and then creates a creative writing composition they insist is The Truth. You seriously can’t tell, on a root comprehension level, where your super-special “interpretation” begins and actual data ends. As I used say to someone booted a few months ago, you’re so stupid you’re unable to recognize you’re stupid.

And if we don’t like it or don’t get the point, it’s because you smart, we stupid. Hivemind/groupthink/gangbang is invoked, blah, blah, blah.

You’re doing a formulaic martyrdom performance where The Bold Truth is really just an open variable. Just get the fuck on with it.

Someone who hasn’t read much of any of what I post yet claims that I have half read what I post you would have a hard time telling what the truth is.

268 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 11:15:50pm

re: #267 Heywood Jabloeme

Someone who hasn’t read much of any of what I post yet claims that I have half read what I post you would have a hard time telling what the truth is.

Sort of like you know what Democrats in Congress are thinking, you know whether I read your posts or not? I don’t post on everything I read.

Case in point. Stupid.

269 Heywood Jabloeme  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 11:17:51pm

re: #264 Targetpractice

It’s as Heywood called it, a fig leaf. He just seems to believe in the fairy tale about dozens of Democrats suddenly seeing the light and deciding that now is the time to take a stand against the NSA and Obama…as opposed to 2 years ago, when these provisions were set to expire and Democrats made a show of demanding a real vote on a 4 year extension before voting by wide margins in favor.

The fig leaf is the 2nd Amendment sponsored by the GOP House Intel Chair.

If you read the law at the link you would know that it wasn’t a “fig-leaf”.

Got a hint for you - this is widely known except here on LGF.

270 OhNoZombies!  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 11:19:33pm

First of all, don’t call me dude.

Second, if they voted down the bill the Prez. didn’t like, and voted for the fig leaf, how is that giving him the finger. That sounds like a CYA move if I ever saw one.

Third, Greenwald is full of it. No complaints from him when Bush enacted all of this crap, in fact, he basically said the government can do what it wants.

But Obama, well…
Typical.

If Snowden really cared about privacy and human rights, he would have avoided China, and Russia.
Just sayin.
The facts are clear, it’s your interpretation that leaves me wanting.

271 Heywood Jabloeme  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 11:22:49pm

re: #268 The Ghost of a Flea

Sort of like you know what Democrats in Congress are thinking, you know whether I read your posts or not? I don’t post on everything I read.

Case in point. Stupid.

You can’t read mine as if you did you wouldn’t make the claim that I “editorialize” a lot in them. Except for adding FACTS like there are Dems in the articles or that it is funny how you think Snowden hasn’t done anything or that Greenwald has ever silently retracted any significant it is mostly straight news that yo9u HATE.

And I don’t KNOW what Dems in Congress are thinking I just KNOW what they did and what you can logically infer from that. I also KNOW what they said that they thought. That’s is what I post FROM CREDIBLE NEWS SOURCES that many times have SUPPORTED Obama.

All things that you would NEVER learn from reading the average post here.

272 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 11:25:07pm

re: #271 Heywood Jabloeme

You can’t read mine as if you did you wouldn’t make the claim that I “editorialize” a lot in them. Except for adding FACTS like there are Dems in the articles or that it is funny how you think Snowden hasn’t done anything or that Greenwald has ever silently retracted any significant it is mostly straight news that yo9u HATE.

And I don’t KNOW what Dems in Congress are thinking I just KNOW what they did and what you can logically infer from that. I also KNOW what they said that they thought. That’s is what I post FROM CREDIBLE NEWS SOURCES that many times have SUPPORTED Obama.

All things that you would NEVER learn from reading the average post here.

“Logically infer”? You look at a singular vote and decide that this is proof that Democrats suddenly care enough about doing away with the NSA program that they’d reverse years of support for it to flip off Obama?

273 klys  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 11:25:30pm

re: #270 OhNoZombies!

Pffft, there’s no women on the Internet. They’re all stuck in the kitchen.

////

Getting tired of attempting to plod through poorly written comments from this evening’s edition. I think I am off to poke at the dryer in an attempt to make the clothes dry faster.

274 OhNoZombies!  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 11:28:56pm

re: #273 klys

Pffft, there’s no women on the Internet. They’re all stuck in the kitchen.

////

Getting tired of attempting to plod through poorly written comments from this evening’s edition. I think I am off to poke at the dryer in an attempt to make the clothes dry faster.

I know, right !!!
At first, I was afraid of the internets, and all those tubes and such…
///

275 StephenMeansMe  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 11:29:27pm

re: #2 Charles Johnson

Great post. Promoted!

Wow, I leave for the day and come back to this on the front page. Thank you!

276 Heywood Jabloeme  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 11:33:41pm

re: #270 OhNoZombies!

First of all, don’t call me dude.

Second, if they voted down the bill the Prez. didn’t like, and voted for the fig leaf, how is that giving him the finger. That sounds like a CYA move if I ever saw one.

Third, Greenwald is full of it. No complaints from him when Bush enacted all of this crap, in fact, he basically said the government can do what it wants.

But Obama, well…
Typical.

If Snowden really cared about privacy and human rights, he would have avoided China, and Russia.
Just sayin.
The facts are clear, it’s your interpretation that leaves me wanting.

The 2nd Amendment disaproved of EVERY thing Obama lobbied them for yet did nothing. That way they can claim that they voted against the NSA program yet not stop it. Then after, the GOP House Chairman promised to draft a new bill with more protections in it and many predictedf he’d have to becausse there were no longer enough votes to reauthorize the Patriot Act next time. Obama actively lobbied the Congressmen not to vote for ANY Amendments and has repeatedly personally defended the PA and has had his DOJ defend it many times in court.

Then your comments re: Greenwald during the Bush years is simply bizzare in its lack of history. Greenwald made his name at Slate excoriating Bush for his use of warrantless wiretaps. You need a few more facts. You’ve been hanging around LGF too much.

How Snowden did this and where he went is really immaterial to what he has done. He has single handedly starting the take down of the post 911 US Domestic Spying programs.

277 Heywood Jabloeme  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 11:35:19pm

re: #272 Targetpractice

“Logically infer”? You look at a singular vote and decide that this is proof that Democrats suddenly care enough about doing away with the NSA program that they’d reverse years of support for it to flip off Obama?

Read the articles. That is what THEY say that they are doing and want to do.

278 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 11:36:15pm

“Started the take down”? Where have I heard that line before? Oh right, Republicans assuring just the other day that the latest repeal bills for Obamacare mark the beginning of the end for it. After all, 39th time being the charm and all that.

279 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 11:38:51pm

re: #277 Heywood Jabloeme

Read the articles. That is what THEY say that they are doing and want to do.

And that means what now, as opposed to two years ago when they had the opportunity to let the provisions expire and instead renewed them for 4 years? You really expect me to believe that 111 Democrats in the House were so out of the loop that they had no clue what was going on until they read it in the Guardian?

280 Heywood Jabloeme  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 11:38:55pm

re: #277 Heywood Jabloeme

Read the articles. That is what THEY say that they are doing and want to do.

A tally of the votes shows that a majority of Democrats voted in favor of the amendment. One of them, Barbara Lee, told the Guardian that the “stage was now set” to curb the NSA. “It was a great beginning - a first step,” she said.

“I can tell you why I voted for it - and most Democrats have the same sentiment - we have to a balance between civil liberties and national security, and I believe this was a very carefully crafted and balanced amendment. Right now, we must rein in the NSA,” she said.

Representative Keith Ellison, co-chairman of the congressional progressive caucus, expressed disappointment that the Amash amendent did not pass. “For the government to just collect people’s data without any sense of that individual warrants or merits and investigation of some kind is a problem. I am pretty disappointed we didn’t pass it, but I am pretty impressed with how well we did. This issue is not over. There will be more voters and there will be more bills. I feel confident we can perhaps prevail.”

Link

Does that help?

281 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 11:41:27pm

re: #280 Heywood Jabloeme

Link

Does that help?

I note that Lee’s talking about curbing and balance, not ending.

282 Kragar  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 11:41:37pm

What Snowden did was espionage and what he is is a traitor.

283 Heywood Jabloeme  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 11:42:06pm

re: #279 Targetpractice

And that means what now, as opposed to two years ago when they had the opportunity to let the provisions expire and instead renewed them for 4 years? You really expect me to believe that 111 Democrats in the House were so out of the loop that they had no clue what was going on until they read it in the Guardian?

Once again. READ. That is WHAT THEY SAY.

Udall and Wyden both say that they wanted to tell us what was going on for a long time but it was classified. Once Snowden leaked they basically have CONFIRMED everything and hinted that there is more. Wyden is actaully ON RECORD as saying that he wants to kill it all at it doesn’t work. He is on the Senate Intel committee.

284 Heywood Jabloeme  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 11:44:00pm

re: #281 Targetpractice

I note that Lee’s talking about curbing and balance, not ending.

She had just voted for an Amendment that would have ended the mass Phone Metadata gathering of the NSA. So sure, that could be described as curbing.

285 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 11:44:05pm

re: #283 Heywood Jabloeme

Once again. READ. That is WHAT THEY SAY.

Udall and Wyden both say that they wanted to tell us what was going on for a long time but it was classified. Once Snowden leaked they basically have CONFIRMED everything and hinted that there is more. Wyden is actaully ON RECORD as saying that he wants to kill it all at it doesn’t work. He is on the Senate Intel committee.

And I’m getting what they “say” as filtered through the media that, just months ago, was ginning up “scandalpalooza” and talking gravely about the “second term curse.”

Sorry, not buying it.

286 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 11:44:40pm

re: #284 Heywood Jabloeme

She had just voted for an Amendment that would have ended the mass Phone Metadata gathering of the NSA. So sure, that could be described as curbing.

And she speaks for all the Democrats who voted? Or we just take her word that they all shared her reasons?

287 Heywood Jabloeme  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 11:47:50pm

Ok, shameless plug.

Go look at my posts on the subject. If you don’t like it if I editorialized or trust what I made as quotes just click the links to the original news sources that I alwasy include in the posts.

288 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 11:51:07pm

See, all I can see is the extension of these programs 2 years ago. Not every single one of those Democrats who voted for it got replaced, so obviously some changed their votes between then and now. So what made the worm turn? Do I believe that every single one was totally in the dark until Greenwald’s “exclusives” began? Or that they all had an attack of conscience and voted their conviction? Or kept with historical precedent and voted the way the wind was blowing and against what the guy in the White House wanted?

289 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 11:53:14pm

Also, the argument from Wyden and Udall is “We couldn’t talk about it because it was classified,” and that’s accepted as the unvarnished truth by those who oppose the program. But the White House says “It’s helped us stop terrorist attacks, but we can’t tell you how because it’s classified” and they’re declared to be fucking liars.

That’s what we like to call “ye olde double standard.”

290 OhNoZombies!  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 11:53:48pm

re: #276 Heywood Jabloeme

The 2nd Amendment disaproved of EVERY thing Obama lobbied them for yet did nothing. That way they can claim that they voted against the NSA program yet not stop it. Then after, the GOP House Chairman promised to draft a new bill with more protections in it and many predictedf he’d have to becausse there were no longer enough votes to reauthorize the Patriot Act next time. Obama actively lobbied the Congressmen not to vote for ANY Amendments and has repeatedly personally defended the PA and has had his DOJ defend it many times in court.

Then your comments re: Greenwald during the Bush years is simply bizzare in its lack of history. Greenwald made his name at Slate excoriating Bush for his use of warrantless wiretaps. You need a few more facts. You’ve been hanging around LGF too much.

How Snowden did this and where he went is really immaterial to what he has done. He has single handedly starting the take down of the post 911 US Domestic Spying programs.

The only thing I’m lacking, as far as Greenwald is concerned, are links, and that’s only cause I’m really getting bored with this, and didn’t feel like pulling them up.
Maybe I will tomorrow.
Maybe I won’t
Snowden is a traitor. Period.
If you didn’t know that every time you turn on your phone, your being spied on, we’ll then maybe you need to re think some shit.
It seems that you are out to prove what foolish sheeple we are, and only YOU can see the truth.
Whatever.

291 Heywood Jabloeme  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 11:55:31pm

re: #286 Targetpractice

And she speaks for all the Democrats who voted? Or we just take her word that they all shared her reasons?

So why would you take the trouble to vote for something that about 50% of the American people are opposed to and that would actually shut a program down if that wasn’t your opinion?

I just went to my pages dashboard and with a quick count got 9 different Dem Congressmen who are on the record with about the same opnion as her.

Pelosi didn’t vote for the real Amendment but did for the cover your ass one and her best defense of the status quo (paraphrasing here) “I know it sucks but having something is better than nothing so lets not kill it but chnage it later”.

So the BEST defense from the Leader of the Presidents own party, who did vote for the Patriot act many times, is that, now that you know what we are doing because of Snowden, we have to change.”

Nice huh?

292 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 25, 2013 11:57:27pm

re: #291 Heywood Jabloeme

So why would you take the trouble to vote for something that about 50% of the American people are opposed to and that would actually shut a program down if that wasn’t your opinion?

I just went to my pages dashboard and with a quick count got 9 different Dem Congressmen who are on the record with about the same opnion as her.

Pelosi didn’t vote for the real Amendment but did for the cover your ass one and her best defense of the status quo (paraphrasing here) “I know it sucks but having something is better than nothing so lets not kill it but chnage it later”.

So the BEST defense from the Leader of the Presidents own party, who did vote for the Patriot act many times, is that, now that you know what we are doing because of Snowden, we have to change.”

Nice huh?

It’s pretty much what I expect is the real reason behind most of those votes, not a sudden attack of conscience. Democrats see the polls shifting and figure it’s time to jump on the bandwagon before they get left behind next year. Shocking, I know, but not unexpected.

293 OhNoZombies!  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 12:00:24am

re: #291 Heywood Jabloeme

So why would you take the trouble to vote for something that about 50% of the American people are opposed to and that would actually shut a program down if that wasn’t your opinion?

I just went to my pages dashboard and with a quick count got 9 different Dem Congressmen who are on the record with about the same opnion as her.

Pelosi didn’t vote for the real Amendment but did for the cover your ass one and her best defense of the status quo (paraphrasing here) “I know it sucks but having something is better than nothing so lets not kill it but chnage it later”.

So the BEST defense from the Leader of the Presidents own party, who did vote for the Patriot act many times, is that, now that you know what we are doing because of Snowden, we have to change.”

Nice huh?

Does this surprise you?
These are politicians. That’s what they do.

294 Targetpractice  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 12:05:57am

re: #293 OhNoZombies!

Does this surprise you?
These are politicians. That’s what they do.

Nothing new or different here. Politicians pull a 180 and this is seen as a vindication of long-held beliefs, rather than a matter of political convenience. We’ve seen the same song-and-dance before, where Democrats act very concerned about the abuses of our rights…and then vote to continue those abuses when an attack happens and Republicans make noises about anybody who stands up for those rights being supportive of terrorists.

295 piratedan  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 12:06:51am

re: #289 Targetpractice

this is the part that I have issues with as well…. the whole idea of what you can say and when you can say it in conjunction with what questions get asked and where you get to ask them. In regards to what took place with Clapper for instance, Wyden knew that Clapper couldn’t tell him the truth in an open public forum. Clapper knew it too and still managed to screw the pooch in public and was (correctly) burned for it. Wyden was posing in order to establish his position for the “other” meeting behind closed doors and Clapper helpfully provided him additional ammunition. Still, does that mean that Wyden thinks that this NSA program should have it’s spigot turned off, no… it doesn’t. It means that he wants more checks and balances, more protocols that delineate where and when the data can be tapped, how it’s tapped and the reasons for tapping it to be better defined. I have no issue with that.

I do have issues with more sledge hammer legislation that attempts to deal with a nuanced issue with a chainsaw that just happens to be sponsored by a teahadi, whom I have zero trust in drafting a piece of legislation that doesn’t have serious repercussions embedded within (the Gitmo issue and the way that the program is truncated w/o recourse or discussion) like most of the crap that they pull (gee doesn’t anyone remember the poison pills in the farm bill? their behavior with the sequester?).

Don’t have an issue with Nancy Smash allowing some folks to vote their conscience on the issue once she was sure that the No votes were there, unlike Speaker Happy Hour, she does know how to count votes and she’s enough of a DC veteran to understand and know that the program probably does yield good intel when applied as intended.

296 Heywood Jabloeme  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 12:09:04am

re: #289 Targetpractice

Also, the argument from Wyden and Udall is “We couldn’t talk about it because it was classified,” and that’s accepted as the unvarnished truth by those who oppose the program. But the White House says “It’s helped us stop terrorist attacks, but we can’t tell you how because it’s classified” and they’re declared to be fucking liars.

That’s what we like to call “ye olde double standard.”

If it isn’t aginst the law to talk about classified material why is Obama charging Snowden with doing so? And if Udall and Wyden had done so do you think that they would have gotten into trouble? Hint, Layhey lost his chairmanship of the Itel committee because he was found guilty of spilling clasified secrets. The Obama adminstrations energetic persuit of other leakers of classifed material is famous. Look at the heat that Holder got for trying to charge a journalist.

Then, Wyden and Udall worked up a letter that 26 other Dem Senators signed that said that they want to declassify the material so that we can all decide if the programs are working.

Obama says he wants to keep it all classified - he is on the record on this.

So who seems to want to get to the truth.

Wyden, who has for years said that he wants to bascially open all this up end it and show you why.

Or the President who says trust me, it works but I can’t show you.

By the way, the Obama administration are admitted liars.

Clapper had to write a letter to thje Senate for doing so because of what he said was in conflcit to the Snowden leaks. (Which is widely thought to confrim most of what is in the Snowden docs).

The NSA had to change what was on thier website because Wyden pointed out that it was in conflict with what was in the Snowden docs and what Lit (the counsel fro Obama’s intel) had testified to.

And before the leaks, Obama famously made claims that were not true and was exposed after the Snowden leaks. He then famously went on Charley Rose and went “Bush” and used lawyer talk to describe what the NSA is doing.

All this is documented in credible press (NYT, WaPO etc) and non of it has ever been denied.

297 OhNoZombies!  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 12:10:00am

re: #294 Targetpractice

Now, If they did something else, then I would start to worry.

298 Heywood Jabloeme  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 12:11:23am

re: #290 OhNoZombies!

The only thing I’m lacking, as far as Greenwald is concerned, are links, and that’s only cause I’m really getting bored with this, and didn’t feel like pulling them up.
Maybe I will tomorrow.
Maybe I won’t
Snowden is a traitor. Period.
If you didn’t know that every time you turn on your phone, your being spied on, we’ll then maybe you need to re think some shit.
It seems that you are out to prove what foolish sheeple we are, and only YOU can see the truth.
Whatever.

It is widely explained by many legal experts that Snowden can’t be charged with being a traitor. That is why Obama has charged him with soemthing else.

The Dems don’t seem to agree with you regarding Greenwald. They seem to agree with him when they vote.

299 OhNoZombies!  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 12:13:56am

They voted for the 2nd amendment, right?
The one you called a fig leaf.
Am I following you so far?

300 piratedan  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 12:15:22am

re: #296 Heywood Jabloeme

today.com

feel free to comment on this

also too, violation of the Espionage Act (which Snowden has admitted to) is still a crime, you don’t want to use the word traitor… fine, criminal will do.

301 Targetpractice  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 12:16:14am

re: #296 Heywood Jabloeme

So Wyden and Udall say “We know it doesn’t work, but it’s classified,” and Obama says “It works, but it’s classified,” and you believe the former because they’re telling you what you want to hear. Why don’t they just throw it out there and let the chips fall where they may? If they feel the program is not simply a failure, but a grave violation of our rights, why allow it to continue because the White House won’t agree to declassify it?

302 Heywood Jabloeme  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 12:17:21am

re: #295 piratedan

this is the part that I have issues with as well…. the whole idea of what you can say and when you can say it in conjunction with what questions get asked and where you get to ask them. In regards to what took place with Clapper for instance, Wyden knew that Clapper couldn’t tell him the truth in an open public forum. Clapper knew it too and still managed to screw the pooch in public and was (correctly) burned for it. Wyden was posing in order to establish his position for the “other” meeting behind closed doors and Clapper helpfully provided him additional ammunition. Still, does that mean that Wyden thinks that this NSA program should have it’s spigot turned off, no… it doesn’t. It means that he wants more checks and balances, more protocols that delineate where and when the data can be tapped, how it’s tapped and the reasons for tapping it to be better defined. I have no issue with that.

I do have issues with more sledge hammer legislation that attempts to deal with a nuanced issue with a chainsaw that just happens to be sponsored by a teahadi, whom I have zero trust in drafting a piece of legislation that doesn’t have serious repercussions embedded within (the Gitmo issue and the way that the program is truncated w/o recourse or discussion) like most of the crap that they pull (gee doesn’t anyone remember the poison pills in the farm bill? their behavior with the sequester?).

Don’t have an issue with Nancy Smash allowing some folks to vote their conscience on the issue once she was sure that the No votes were there, unlike Speaker Happy Hour, she does know how to count votes and she’s enough of a DC veteran to understand and know that the program probably does yield good intel when applied as intended.

Wyden is on the record saying the he wants to end many of the NSA’s programs to include ALL phone Metadata gathering and PRISM / Internet data gathering. He has also said that he wants to drastically change the FISA / FSC court which has approved these programs and others.

He also wants to open up the findings of the FISA Court. Most experts agree that will end most current programs as it opens the programs up to scrutiny by the normal non-FISA court system and most feel that means that they will be ended or reduced in such a way as to be practically ended.

303 Targetpractice  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 12:17:32am

re: #300 piratedan

today.com

feel free to comment on this

No level of transparency will be sufficient to those who want the program ended entirely. There will always be excuses for why it’s “not enough.”

304 OhNoZombies!  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 12:19:09am

re: #303 Targetpractice

No level of transparency will be sufficient to those who want the program ended entirely. There will always be excuses for why it’s “not enough.”

Till they get blowed up…
Then it’s the didn’t protect us, why didn’t they know?

305 Heywood Jabloeme  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 12:22:31am

re: #300 piratedan

today.com

feel free to comment on this

Did you read the part “without jepardizing current programs?” the vote in congress today was to end one of the current programs.

Then, a Federal Court has order him to release info on Yahoo so that they can prove that they only provided Obama with your data when ordered to with threat of the law and like Udall and Wyden, couldnt say anything about it or they would go to jail.

Doesn’t seem like much from the President with these facts in mind does it?

306 piratedan  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 12:22:53am

re: #303 Targetpractice

granted, just find it hard to believe that it’s perfectly okay for google and yahoo and msn to monitor their every keystroke and then inundate them with pop up ads with every fifteen clicks are somehow these bastions of security that they can’t be hacked by nefarious principals (for anything from your SSN to your banking account numbers) and that somehow the government using similar data mining methodology to figure out who is talking to whom in order to prevent a bomb from going off on a plan is somehow a bridge too far.

307 Heywood Jabloeme  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 12:24:39am

re: #304 OhNoZombies!

Till they get blowed up…
Then it’s the didn’t protect us, why didn’t they know?

Could be true and is part of the political risk.

But Udall and Wyden say that if we knew the facts we would decide for ourslves that they aren’t working now. They want us to know.

308 Targetpractice  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 12:24:47am

re: #306 piratedan

granted, just find it hard to believe that it’s perfectly okay for google and yahoo and msn to monitor their every keystroke and then inundate them with pop up ads with every fifteen clicks are somehow these bastions of security that they can’t be hacked by nefarious principals (for anything from your SSN to your banking account numbers) and that somehow the government using similar data mining methodology to figure out who is talking to whom in order to prevent a bomb from going off on a plan is somehow a bridge too far.

It’s something I’ve shaken my head at since this whole “bombshell” became public knowledge, namely the idea that Corporate America knowing your every move is acceptable so long as it proves somewhat convenient, but the NSA knowing who you called and how long you talked for is earth-shattering.

309 Targetpractice  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 12:26:02am

re: #307 Heywood Jabloeme

Could be true and is part of the political risk.

But Udall and Wyden say that if we knew the facts we would decide for ourslves that they aren’t working now. They want us to know.

They want us to know, but they want the White House’s permission before they’ll tell us. I’ll take “Excuse Making” for $1000, Alex.

310 piratedan  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 12:30:42am

re: #305 Heywood Jabloeme

sorry man, you’re not swaying me, you appear to be confusing the head of the executive with some omnipotent despot that controls all programs and has responsibility for all things. He’s following the letter of the law as it currently stands on the books, not how he would like it to be. Obama has been on the record as stating that he’s not comfortable with the power that the Patriot Act allows him, but he’s bound by the law to do what he can to deter what he can from threats abroad. He’s asked the Congress to review this, instead, they rubber stamped it when it came up for review. He’s the one who initiated what changes have been made to the law at the behest of allies in Congress to add oversight to it, is it perfect, no. It’s also not the carte blanche that existed with the Bush Administration.

You’re busy looking for the perfect, and completely disregarding the good in front of you. Part of the same poniless brigade regarding ACA, yeah, it’s not single payer, but guess what, there weren’t votes for single payer available, so he got the best deal that he could make. You wanted reform of the Patriot Act, for fucks sake, he couldn’t even get credit for tracking down Bin Laden.

311 Heywood Jabloeme  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 12:30:52am

re: #306 piratedan

granted, just find it hard to believe that it’s perfectly okay for google and yahoo and msn to monitor their every keystroke and then inundate them with pop up ads with every fifteen clicks are somehow these bastions of security that they can’t be hacked by nefarious principals (for anything from your SSN to your banking account numbers) and that somehow the government using similar data mining methodology to figure out who is talking to whom in order to prevent a bomb from going off on a plan is somehow a bridge too far.

Wyden and Udall says it doesn’t prevent anything and they if we knew that facts we could decide for ourselves.

And as far as the corp use of our private data, this has spawned many efforts to change that. And I think that equating the govt use of data with private use is not possible. I search and use Google voluntarily and they sell me stuff that I buy voluntarily. There is room for abuse. The govt does NOT have the right to search me before they have a reasonable suspicion that I broke the law.

312 Heywood Jabloeme  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 12:34:32am

re: #309 Targetpractice

They want us to know, but they want the White House’s permission before they’ll tell us. I’ll take “Excuse Making” for $1000, Alex.

They dont want the White Houses Permission they want the law changed by Congress and signed by the Whitehouse so they don’t have to flee the country like Snowden.

Do you think not breaking the law is an excuse for not doing something? Isn’t it conveneint that it is unlawfull to even know that these programs exists so that we can’t take the Govt to court to test whether they are leagal are not?

313 piratedan  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 12:35:10am

re: #311 Heywood Jabloeme

Wyden and Udall says it doesn’t prevent anything and they if we knew that facts we could decide for ourselves.

And as far as the corp use of our private data, this has spawned many efforts to change that. And I think that equating the govt use of data with private use is not possible. I search and use Google voluntarily and they sell me stuff that I buy voluntarily. There is room for abuse. The govt does NOT have the right to search me before they have a reasonable suspicion that I broke the law.

there’s always room for abuse, there’s room for police brutality, yet they still patrol our streets at night. If the Government is tracking someone that they believe has the intention and wherewithal to do harm to the country, then I expect them to investigate that and all persons associated with them.

314 piratedan  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 12:37:28am

re: #312 Heywood Jabloeme

They dont want the White Houses Permission they want the law changed by Congress and signed by the Whitehouse so they don’t have to flee the country like Snowden.

Do you think not breaking the law is an excuse for not doing something? Isn’t it conveneint that it is unlawfull to even know that these programs exists so that we can’t take the Govt to court to test whether they are leagal are not?

and no one forced Snowden to leave the country, he was perfectly capable of fleeing all on his own. If this was an act of “civil disobedience” then you make your statement, get arrested and have your day in court. See Ellsberg, King, Mandela, Thoreau. Don’t you dare compare this nitwit with the likes of MLK doing time in fucking Birmingham in the early 60’s.

315 Targetpractice  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 12:40:00am

re: #312 Heywood Jabloeme

They dont want the White Houses Permission they want the law changed by Congress and signed by the Whitehouse so they don’t have to flee the country like Snowden.

Do you think not breaking the law is an excuse for not doing something? Isn’t it conveneint that it is unlawfull to even know that these programs exists so that we can’t take the Govt to court to test whether they are leagal are not?

Yeah, I kinda do think that sitting on your ass and complaining about how your hands are tied to prevent such violations of our rights is not doing something. If they have information that would settle the debate, but can’t talk about it because of fear that the White House will prosecute them, then they’re admitting that they’re more worried about their own asses than they are the very oath they took when they took office.

316 OhNoZombies!  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 12:46:53am

re: #307 Heywood Jabloeme

Lets put it like this:
Sometimes we have to make a judgement call based on limited information. I’m alright with the president.
It comes as no surprise to me that the government can and will gather any information it wants to. That’s the world we live in. We offer our personal lives on a platter every time we press an on switch.
If I were concerned that someone was collecting data about me, than I wouldn’t be typing this right now. It’s the price we pay for technology.

If teen aged girls start getting rounded up for singing naughty songs about the government, then I’ll be concerned.

317 Heywood Jabloeme  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 12:47:37am

re: #310 piratedan

sorry man, you’re not swaying me, you appear to be confusing the head of the executive with some omnipotent despot that controls all programs and has responsibility for all things. He’s following the letter of the law as it currently stands on the books, not how he would like it to be. Obama has been on the record as stating that he’s not comfortable with the power that the Patriot Act allows him, but he’s bond by the law to do what he can to deter what he can from threats abroad. He’s asked the Congress to review this, instead, they rubber stamped it when it came up for review. He’s the one who initiated what changes have been made to the law at the behest of allies in Congress to add oversight to it, is it perfect, no. It’s also not the carte blanche that existed with the Bush Administration.

You’re busy looking for the perfect, and completely disregarding the good in front of you. Part of the same poniless brigade regarding ACA, yeah, it’s not single payer, but guess what, there weren’t votes for single payer available, so he got the best deal that he could make. You wanted reform of the Patriot Act, for fucks sake, he couldn’t even get credit for tracking down Bin Laden.

He is just following the law of the land huh? How’d that work for DOMA?

The law doesn’t require him to do anything. It gives him the tools to do what he thinks best. The Congress gives the US Nuclear Missiles and he is the Commander and Cheif so why doens’t he use them?

The only diffence between the law now and Bush is that a kangaroo court run by Roberts rubber stamps everything that they want to do. It is widely reprted that the warrantless wiretapping by Bush is simply warrated now. nothing chnaged.

And he has not said that he is uncomfortable with what the NSA is currently doing. In fact, on the Charley Rose show he famously defended the current law and how it is executed by saying that “it is a good trade off between security and our civil rights”.

In a post above someone gave a link to a Today show piece where he said that he wants to be transparent but not at the cost of any current programs.

He also had his administration lobby against the amendments to defund the phone metadata programs. If he was uncomfortable with them he could have simply let the Congress defund them.

I am most certainly not looking for the perfect. From all the facts that I ahve seen I agree with Wyden that the prgrams simply don’t work and want them ended. If they don’t work then there is no increased risk and we don’t have to govt Spying on us.

318 piratedan  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 12:51:35am

re: #317 Heywood Jabloeme

I’m sure that you have a newsletter I can subscribe to….

I’m done with you.

319 Targetpractice  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 12:55:51am

Yeah, I’ve had enough of the street preacher for one night. Time for go to bed.

Laters.

320 Heywood Jabloeme  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 12:55:56am

re: #315 Targetpractice

Yeah, I kinda do think that sitting on your ass and complaining about how your hands are tied to prevent such violations of our rights is not doing something. If they have information that would settle the debate, but can’t talk about it because of fear that the White House will prosecute them, then they’re admitting that they’re more worried about their own asses than they are the very oath they took when they took office.

Wow, you are defending Snowden now because that he what he just did with the help of Greenwald.

I agree that on the specturm of actions to be taken here Snowden is at one extreme and Wyden somewhere in the middle before nothing. But he has been trying to change the law since 2010. And he wants to change the laws so that the information to challenge them in court is available. By that I think that he is implying that if a court reviewed them and found them not to violate our rights he would uphold them.

I believe that also part of their oath is to follow the laws of the United States and I seem to remember that the final perview of the Courts and ultimately SCOTUS. As the laws are currently written we don’t even know if they are constituiotnal as thay cant be tested.

321 Heywood Jabloeme  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 12:58:39am

re: #318 piratedan

I’m sure that you have a newsletter I can subscribe to….

I’m done with you.

I don’t have a newsletter I’ve got the pages where I post real news.

I am glad I got you to the point where you defended Snowden.

322 Varek Raith  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 1:15:38am

re: #321 Heywood Jabloeme

Snowden and Greenwald lied about what the program can do.
But, by all means, defend the liars.
We can’t have a real discussion on this until you, and Greenwald fans, admit this.

323 piratedan  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 1:19:12am

re: #321 Heywood Jabloeme

I didn’t defend Snowden, at all, anywhere. You want to categorize me naming him a criminal versus a traitor as a win, I guess that is entirely your prerogative. There is no way that I am going to let you post that blatant falsehood without a response.

324 Heywood Jabloeme  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 1:31:24am

re: #322 Varek Raith

Snowden and Greenwald lied about what the program can do.
But, by all means, defend the liars.
We can’t have a real discussion on this until you, and Greenwald fans, admit this.

The majority of House Dems don’t think that Snowden ad Greenwald are lying or those House members are pretty stupid because they just voted for an Amendment to stop the NSA from doing something that you claim Snowden and Greenwald Lied about.

BTW - Clapper had to admit the he lied when he said that the NSA didn’t do what Snowden and Greenwald claim.

Bring some facts next time.

325 Heywood Jabloeme  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 1:33:41am

re: #323 piratedan

I didn’t defend Snowden, at all, anywhere. You want to categorize me naming him a criminal versus a traitor as a win, I guess that is entirely your prerogative. There is no way that I am going to let you post that blatant falsehood without a response.

It wasn’t you it was Targetpractice in post # 315. Read it.

326 Heywood Jabloeme  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 1:35:26am

re: #323 piratedan

I didn’t defend Snowden, at all, anywhere. You want to categorize me naming him a criminal versus a traitor as a win, I guess that is entirely your prerogative. There is no way that I am going to let you post that blatant falsehood without a response.

he can’t be a prosecuted as a traitor. read the consitution. it is the only crime explicitly described there and it cannot apply in this case.

327 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 1:35:30am

re: #324 Heywood Jabloeme

The majority of House Dems don’t think that Snowden ad Greenwald are lying or those House members are pretty stupid because they just voted for an Amendment to stop the NSA from doing something that you claim Snowden and Greenwald Lied about.

Nobody is claiming meatadata isn’t collected. That’s not what got lied about.

Honest question: Do you think you’re a good communicator?

328 Varek Raith  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 1:40:23am

Oy.

329 Heywood Jabloeme  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 1:44:37am

re: #327 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Nobody is claiming meatadata isn’t collected. That’s not what got lied about.

Honest question: Do you think you’re a good communicator?

Clapper, who works for Obama by the way, explicitly denied that Metadata was collected. Then, after the Snowden leaks, wrote a letter to the Senate appolgizing for doing so.

Before the leaks, Obama seemed to imply that the US Govt didn’t collect Metadata then after the leaks had to back off and admit that they did.

Before the leaks, the NSA webiste explicitly said that they didn’t. They had to change it after the leaks when Senator Wyden pointed it out.

Ok so show me how well you can comunicate by documenting something SIGNIFICANT that Snowden lied about.

330 piratedan  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 1:46:47am

re: #325 Heywood Jabloeme

and I was supposed to know that how exactly?

then…. as a courtesy, don’t attribute it to me….

you wanna support GG and Snowden, feel free. You want to point out the potential abuses in the system, that is a fine and noble calling but you are missing a couple of extremely key items imho… both GG and Snowden have alleged that the US Government and specifically the NSA have broken laws. I have yet to see any proof in any publication listing what laws have been violated and how they have been violated.

the only laws that anyone has any proof of being broken are by Snowden himself, in illegally downloading classified documents in violation of the Espionage Act, which Snowden has freely admitted to doing. I have a pretty solid understanding that breaking laws that you feel are unjust can very well be an act of civil disobedience, as I’ve cited above, the people who do so (engaging in civil disobedience) break those laws and turn themselves in, in order to protest the existence of those laws.

The gentleman that you so stoically defend hasn’t done that. I don’t want to hear that his life is in danger, it’s not like this guy is some black teenager in a hoodie in a white neighborhood. He’s a middle class white guy with a good government contractors job who has contacts with Wikileaks and GG, this bullshit about his life being in danger is just that, bullshit. If Glenn fucking Beck and Rush Limbaugh or even Pamella Geller haven’t been jailed for sedition, then this guy has nothing to worry about other than making his case and doing his time.

331 Heywood Jabloeme  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 1:47:03am

re: #328 Varek Raith

Oy.

what, cat got your tongue? Don’t know how to respond to facts?

332 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 1:52:15am

re: #329 Heywood Jabloeme

Clapper, who works for Obama by the way, explicitly denied that Metadata was collected.

No, he didn’t. He gave a weasel answer to a trap-question and got burned for it. Great. It was not an explicit denial that metadata was being collected, and representing it as such undercuts your argument.

Before the leaks, Obama seemed to imply that the US Govt didn’t collect Metadata then after the leaks had to back off and admit that they did.

Ah, ‘seemed to imply’. Well thank god we stopped that.

Ok so show me how well you can comunicate by documenting something SIGNIFICANT that Snowden lied about.

Snowden claimed that it was trivial for him, as an analyst, to get a wiretap on president Obama or any other American citizen. The disproof of this, oddly enough, lies in the slides he released, which show this isn’t true.

He also lied about people being able to watch you as your ideas form on the screen, or rather, he made it sound like that could happen at-will, and not after a warrant, and not if you were a US citizen.

Instead of making shitloads of badly-spelled, terribly argued posts, why not concentrate on writing up an actually convincing narrative, explaining why you’re upset and why others should be without calling people bootlicks, assholes, maniac farters, and the rest? I don’t think anyone has any chance of being convinced by your current incredibly sloppy approach.

333 Varek Raith  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 1:52:20am

re: #331 Heywood Jabloeme

You’ve already dismissed everything Charles and others posted about this subject. Arguing with you is like arguing with a truther. No amount of evidence will ever convince you otherwise. It’s all a grand conspiracy.

334 Heywood Jabloeme  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 1:59:47am

re: #330 piratedan

and I was supposed to know that how exactly?

then…. as a courtesy, don’t attribute it to me….

you wanna support GG and Snowden, feel free. You want to point out the potential abuses in the system, that is a fine and noble calling but you are missing a couple of extremely key items imho… both GG and Snowden have alleged that the US Government and specifically the NSA have broken laws. I have yet to see any proof in any publication listing what laws have been violated and how they have been violated.

the only laws that anyone has any proof of being broken are by Snowden himself, in illegally downloading classified documents in violation of the Espionage Act, which Snowden has freely admitted to doing. I have a pretty solid understanding that breaking laws that you feel are unjust can very well be an act of civil disobedience, as I’ve cited above, the people who do so (engaging in civil disobedience) break those laws and turn themselves in, in order to protest the existence of those laws.

The gentleman that you so stoically defend hasn’t done that. I don’t want to hear that his life is in danger, it’s not like this guy is some black teenager in a hoodie in a white neighborhood. He’s a middle class white guy with a good government contractors job who has contacts with Wikileaks and GG, this bullshit about his life being in danger is just that, bullshit. If Glenn fucking Beck and Rush Limbaugh or even Pamella Geller haven’t been jailed for sedition, then this guy has nothing to worry about other than making his case and doing his time.

The only way to know if the NSA is breaking the laws is to take them to court. And now, after the leaks, that is what organizations like the ACLU and EFF are doing. See, just conveintly, that laws are constucted so that just knowing about them is against the law so you can’t go to court. This has actaully happened twice before in this case. Snowden changed that. Targetpractice is on record above saying that Wyden and Udall should do the same thing rather than just propose laws that let us have the information so that we can take it to court ourselves.

As far as which laws the NSA may have violated being published. In a NYT article posted here by Charles 2 laws proffesors list at least 2 laws and the Constitution.

Leave aside the Patriot Act and FISA Amendments Act for a moment, and turn to the Constitution.

The Fourth Amendment obliges the government to demonstrate probable cause before conducting invasive surveillance. There is simply no precedent under the Constitution for the government’s seizing such vast amounts of revealing data on innocent Americans’ communications.

nytimes.com

335 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 2:02:24am

re: #334 Heywood Jabloeme

But you can’t just cite the 4th. The 4th amendment has been erodes for decades upon decades; like any Constitutional issue, you have to put it in the context of actual Supreme Court decisions on the topic.

336 Heywood Jabloeme  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 2:08:46am

re: #332 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

No, he didn’t. He gave a weasel answer to a trap-question and got burned for it. Great. It was not an explicit denial that metadata was being collected, and representing it as such undercuts your argument.

Ah, ‘seemed to imply’. Well thank god we stopped that.

Snowden claimed that it was trivial for him, as an analyst, to get a wiretap on president Obama or any other American citizen. The disproof of this, oddly enough, lies in the slides he released, which show this isn’t true.

He also lied about people being able to watch you as your ideas form on the screen, or rather, he made it sound like that could happen at-will, and not after a warrant, and not if you were a US citizen.

Instead of making shitloads of badly-spelled, terribly argued posts, why not concentrate on writing up an actually convincing narrative, explaining why you’re upset and why others should be without calling people bootlicks, assholes, maniac farters, and the rest? I don’t think anyone has any chance of being convinced by your current incredibly sloppy approach.

Wyden ‘deeply troubled’ by Clapper’s domestic-spying lie

WASHINGTON, July 2 (UPI) — Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Ore., is “deeply troubled” by the top U.S. intelligence figure’s public lie about domestic spying on Americans, the senator’s office said.

Wyden said National Intelligence Director James Clapper’s office within days admitted privately Clapper lied in public testimony at an open congressional hearing March 12, but Clapper refused to acknowledge this formally to the committee for 14 weeks.

The New York Times reported June 11 Wyden knew immediately Clapper’s testimony wasn’t true, because Wyden is a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee, which receives secret briefings from top intelligence officials, including Clapper.

But Clapper formally corrected the record only 11 days ago, when disclosures by rogue former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden prompted weeks of intense public pressure.

Wyden asked Clapper March 12 if the NSA collects “any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans.”

Clapper answered, “No sir,” then added, “Not wittingly. There are cases where they could inadvertently, perhaps, collect, but not wittingly.”

The rest of your assertions regarding Snowdens claims are only true to poeple who hang out on this thread. Like a bunch of right wing kook climate denyers you have one have one expert on the thread make a claim and then all agree that it must be true.

337 Varek Raith  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 2:12:31am

QED.

338 Heywood Jabloeme  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 2:12:33am

re: #333 Varek Raith

You’ve already dismissed everything Charles and others posted about this subject. Arguing with you is like arguing with a truther. No amount of evidence will ever convince you otherwise. It’s all a grand conspiracy.

Well then, if it is on LGF it must be true then huh? I have to tell you that I have posted many things from credible sources that don’t agree with LGF. You can choose to believe what ever you want but I tend to choose a source with the greatest credibility.

339 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 2:13:10am

re: #336 Heywood Jabloeme

I understand that Wyden is making a big deal of Clapper’s weaseling. I don’t understand why you think it’s some huge gotcha moment.

The rest of your assertions regarding Snowdens claims are only true to poeple who hang out on this thread. Like a bunch of right wing kook climate denyers you have one have one expert on the thread make a claim and then all agree that it must be true.

I’m sorry, but I actually can’t tell what you’re saying. Are you saying what I’ve said Snowden claimed wasn’t was he actually said, or that he was right when he said them?

Whichever it is, instead of asserting that I’m as brainless as a climate denier, could you provide counter-proof from an actual source, not just yourself? This bit is especially weird because you seem to be mocking people here for accepting things people say, and you are asking us, to, well, just accept what you’re saying.

And it’s just you and me talking right now, why do you keep making these wild-eyes comments about ‘you’ in the plural?

340 Heywood Jabloeme  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 2:14:29am

re: #337 Varek Raith

QED.

Wyden says Clapper lied. So I agree, QED.

But then, you guys at LGF know better than a US Senator on the Intel committee.

341 piratedan  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 2:15:40am

re: #335 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

But you can’t just cite the 4th. The 4th amendment has been erodes for decades upon decades; like any Constitutional issue, you have to put it in the context of actual Supreme Court decisions on the topic.

he has zero idea of Context and if laws had been broken, then why hasn’t the data that was downloaded to illustrate that very point been published? After all, both Der Speigel and The Guardian have the data from the downloads (they claim) and they’ve published bupkis on this very point. Supposedly even the WaPo has this incriminating evidence in hand, then where are the articles that show how the program and the data collected have been abused. Everything initially claimed has been walked back, by various parties (even to some extent by GG himself, if you wish to sift through the tortured parsing of his tweets) You wanna throw the NYT (it would irresponsible of us not to speculate….) at me as a source of explaining the wrongdoing, fine, we also have people in the other corner who state that what has been alleged is total bullshit, the process doesn’t work that way and here’s how it does work. That’s fine if you wish to believe that our government is behaving badly (it certainly has before) but I’m sorry if I grant THIS administration a bit more latitude considering the political climate that we live in and the known agendas of the accusers. Context matters.

The other problem is, the data that was downloaded, isn’t what GG and Snowden say it is or what they initially presented it as, it’s most likely specific operational documents regarding ongoing projects that name actual assets in the field which is why they refuse to publish them.

342 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 2:17:51am

re: #340 Heywood Jabloeme

Wyden says Clapper lied. So I agree, QED.

But then, you guys at LGF know better than a US Senator on the Intel committee.

I think he ‘lied’ in the conventional sense that he said something deceptive, but he was being asked the question by a man who knew the answer, and knew that, under the law, Clapper couldn’t give a full answer.

343 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 2:19:24am

re: #341 piratedan

A slide was shown on Brazilian TV that had the NSA managers named un-redacted. It was unclear if they were overseas or here in the US, but that’s clearly part of what Der Spiegel was saying when they said much of Snowden’s information was too dangerous to release.

344 Varek Raith  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 2:19:38am

re: #340 Heywood Jabloeme

Let’s start simple.

Do you think the NSA can monitor all my communications and the content of them? Do you think they can do this in realtime?

345 OhNoZombies!  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 2:27:39am

Greenwald…stuff…I don’t know…

Seems like Greenwald is exaggerating.

346 Varek Raith  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 2:30:51am

re: #345 OhNoZombies!

Greenwald…stuff…I don’t know…

Seems like Greenwald is exaggerating.

And this is what pisses me off the most.
I freaking hate this program. But I sure as hell am not to allign myself with this egomaniac and liar. He’s doing far more damage to discourse on this than any govt agency can dream of.

347 OhNoZombies!  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 2:33:49am

re: #346 Varek Raith

He sure does seem to be enjoying the spotlight.

348 Heywood Jabloeme  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 2:35:16am

re: #339 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I understand that Wyden is making a big deal of Clapper’s weaseling. I don’t understand why you think it’s some huge gotcha moment.

I’m sorry, but I actually can’t tell what you’re saying. Are you saying what I’ve said Snowden claimed wasn’t was he actually said, or that he was right when he said them?

Whichever it is, instead of asserting that I’m as brainless as a climate denier, could you provide counter-proof from an actual source, not just yourself? This bit is especially weird because you seem to be mocking people here for accepting things people say, and you are asking us, to, well, just accept what you’re saying.

And it’s just you and me talking right now, why do you keep making these wild-eyes comments about ‘you’ in the plural?

So, if it was only “weaseling” why did he have to formerly in writting appologize? And it was a complete and total gotcha moment because a few days later Snowden leaked and showed that he was lying. If that isn’t a gotcha moment I don’t know what is. And what is funny almost everyone in the rest of the world thinks so to. It made headlines on all the big news papers and news shows.

Then you go to claim that one of the slides disprove the assertion that he could spy on anyone even President Obama. I have seen, read all the slides and have not seen any that refute that claim. And there are articles in the NYT and WaPo where govt officials have confirmed that he could physcially do that but was by policey required to have a Warrant and he did so without a warrant he would be caught in an audit. So he could do it but should only only do it with a warrant and would be caught if he did it. I will find the testimony in front of Congress that said so.

Then I think that you refered to the ability of the NSA for real time monitoring of data.

The Washington Post has unearthed more slides describing the US government’s PRISM surveillance program—and they help confirm the extent of the operation.

The new slides seem to support what whistleblower Edward Snowden has already claimed: that PRISM lets the NSA perform real-time surveillance of email and instant messaging.

Link

349 Varek Raith  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 2:38:20am

117,675.
A far cry from being able to monitor everyone.

350 Heywood Jabloeme  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 2:42:46am

re: #344 Varek Raith

Let’s start simple.

Do you think the NSA can monitor all my communications and the content of them? Do you think they can do this in realtime?

Even as some members of Congress have challenged the N.S.A.’s collection of logs of nearly every phone call Americans make

The agency began amassing databases of “metadata” — logs of all telephone calls collected from the major carriers and similar data on e-mail traffic.

The documents show that America’s phone and Internet companies grew leery of N.S.A. demands as the years passed after 9/11, fearing that customers might be angry to find out their records were shared with the government. More and more, the companies’ lawyers insisted on legal orders to compel them to comply.

So the N.S.A. came up with a solution: store the data itself. That is evidently what gave birth to a vast data storage center that the N.S.A. is building in Utah, exploiting the declining cost of storage and the advance of sophisticated search software.

Those huge databases were once called “bit buckets” in the industry — collections of electronic bits waiting to be sifted. “They park stuff in storage in the hopes that they will eventually have time to get to it,” said James Lewis, a cyberexpert at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, “or that they’ll find something that they need to go back and look for in the masses of data.”

Indeed, an obscure passage in one of the Snowden documents — rules for collecting Internet data that the Obama administration wrote in secret in 2009 and that the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court approved — suggested that the government was concerned about its ability to process all the data it was collecting. So it got the court to approve an exception allowing the government to hold on to that information if it could not keep up. The rules said that “the communications that may be retained” for up to five years “include electronic communications acquired because of the limitation on the N.S.A.’s ability to filter communications.”

As one private expert who sometimes advises the N.S.A. on this technology put it: “This means that if you can’t desalinate all the seawater at once, you get to hold on to the ocean until you figure it out.”

Collecting that ocean requires the brazen efforts of tens of thousands of technicians like Mr. Snowden

Link

351 Heywood Jabloeme  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 2:44:44am

re: #349 Varek Raith

117,675.
A far cry from being able to monitor everyone.

The slide says that is what they were monitoring at the time. Not what they could monitor.

And Snowden didn’t say “everyone” he said “anyone”.

352 Varek Raith  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 2:46:07am

I am now convinced that my house was built on top of the Bat Cave…

353 Varek Raith  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 2:53:41am

This is a lie.

re: #351 Heywood Jabloeme

Ok, so how am I to interpret this? He says nothing about these being targeted monitoring.

“I don’t want to live in world where everything that I say, everything I do…every expression of creativity or love or friendship is recorded, and that’s not something I’m willing to support,” Snowden said. “That’s not something I’m willing to build and that’s not something I’m willing to live under.”

Or,

“(W)e’ve got Prism, which is a demonstration of how the U.S. government co-opts U.S. corporate power to its own ends. Companies like Google, Facebook, Apple, Microsoft, they all get together with the NSA and provide the NSA direct access to the back ends of all the systems you use to communicate, to store data, to put things in the cloud, and even just to send birthday wishes and keep a record of your life,” Snowden said in the video interview, which was recorded on June 6 in Hong Kong.

Ok, so either they are monitoring everyone or not. Snowden implies they are with these comments of his. Otherwise, how would the NSA being keeping a record of my life?
See, this is the bullshit that hurts your cause. Please, stick to actual facts, not paranoid fantasies.

354 Heywood Jabloeme  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 3:08:59am

re: #353 Varek Raith

This is a lie.

Ok, so how am I to interpret this? He says nothing about these being targeted monitoring.

Or,

Ok, so either they are monitoring everyone or not. Snowden implies they are with these comments of his. Otherwise, how would the NSA being keeping a record of my life?
See, this is the bullshit that hurts your cause. Please, stick to actual facts, not paranoid fantasies.

I am going to try and stck to the facts here so let me get this straight.

Because he doesn’t use the word “targeted” you feel free to assume that he is claiming “everyone” thus claiming that he is lying?

I think that this could be true with those assumptions. The problem is that he is decribing documents that have been validated by experts and implicitly validated by the govt itself.

So, if the statements that you refered to above were part of a series where he had made similar claims yet we knew for sure that he was lying then it wouldn’t be unreasonable to make the assumption here required to conclude that he was lying.

The problem is that, for most significant things he is spot on. And for many others no one has denied them.

If he didn’t have any credibility he wouldn’t have the entire US govt jinking and jiving trying to get out of the way of his claims. For eaxample, if the Congress had simply denied his claims and docs claiming the Metadata and then shruggged them off. I would say “strike one” or “two” etc. But they just voted and failed, to stop the govt from doing something he claims that they are doing. And it would havbe passed but for 7 votes.

He may be doing a poor job describing the slides and docs but they have been spot on.

355 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 3:10:31am
Halliburton has agreed to plead guilty to destruction of critical evidence after the Gulf of Mexico oil spill in 2010, the Justice Department announced on Thursday.

The oil services company said it would pay the maximum allowable fine of $200,000 and will be subject to three years of probation. It will also continue its cooperation in the government’s criminal investigation. Separately, Halliburton made a voluntary contribution of $55 million to the National Fish and Wildlife Foundation.

Who’d have thunk that a company like Halliburton, with their sterling reputation for integrity, would criminally destroy evidence in order to deflect the blame from them knowingly having sold substandard cement that was the root cause of an environmental catastrophe. You can’t tell, but this is my shocked face.

356 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 3:29:53am

You just know this was about money, even if Weiner is an idiot. I don’t think this woman is as naive as she tries to portray herself.

Love, my ass.

nydailynews.com

357 Varek Raith  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 3:36:44am

At this point, banging my head against a wall would be less painful.

358 twisty  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 3:49:20am

re: #356 Justanotherhuman

Her ex-friend is wrong — she has plenty to lose. She’s going to be (already is being) smeared to hell and back very publicly. She did something very wrong by knowingly helping a man betray his wife, true. But the media’s hungry zeal for tearing apart young women involved in politician sex scandals turns my stomach. Why do they think I need to see her racy photos? What does her marijuana possession charge have to do with anything? For that matter, what does this whole business have to do with real issues? It’s not hard for me to believe a 22 year old can be naive and “in love” with a scumbag. Happens to people much older than her all the time.

359 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 3:53:21am

re: #348 Heywood Jabloeme

If this was such a huge deal, why hadn’t Wyndell already revealed it to the US public? Why was he keeping the secret?

Then you go to claim that one of the slides disprove the assertion that he could spy on anyone even President Obama. I have seen, read all the slides and have not seen any that refute that claim.

Have you seen the slide that details the many layers, including the FBI, that such a request would have to go through?

360 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 3:54:31am

re: #356 Justanotherhuman

I’m an undercaffeineated idiot

361 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 4:04:27am

re: #358 twisty

There aren’t any winners in this kind of sleaze. She already has an agent and is looking to cash in—the same one who represented Nadya Suleman and look what happened to her.

Something is really broken in people who like to air their dirty laundry, make excuses and have no regrets about it, whether it’s Weiner or this woman. It’s all about cashing in on the infamy as much as you can.

362 Varek Raith  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 4:09:07am

re: #360 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I’m an undercaffeineated idiot

Aren’t we all.

363 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 4:29:14am

Good morning, this is the first time that I have rage-dinged my way down to the bottom of the thread.

I didn’t even rage-ding all the Derp, I gave up after a while.

364 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 4:31:37am

re: #360 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Of course their marriage isn’t our business. But I also think that these kinds of events point to a larger problem—the growing narcissism in American culture, an outgrowth, I think of our background of Puritanism and of not seeing the human body and sexuality as natural but as forbidden.

Right now, my 3 yr old g-grandson is proud of his penis, too, and likes to run around without his pants, but he’s 3.

365 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 4:33:06am

re: #364 Justanotherhuman

Yeah, see my edited reply, though you were talking about his wife.

I agree Weiner has a fetish for exhibitionism. I don’t think it’s indicative of a larger culture, though.

366 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 4:39:31am
367 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 4:43:23am

re: #365 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

The competitiveness in a capitalist society w/undertones of religious fundamentalism doesn’t go down, it goes up. There are reasons that the US has the largest porn industry in the world.

368 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 4:56:18am

False memory planted in mouse’s brain

The feat will help to reveal how more complex false memories, such as of sexual abuse or alien abduction, can arise in people

guardian.co.uk

Fantastic work.

369 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 4:58:15am

I see that the wingnuts have morphed from their “MLK was a Republican!” Derp to “Malcolm X was a Republican!” SuperDuperDerp.

I just can’t even.

Malcolm X was probably unhappy with the Dem party TOTALLY DOES NOT MEAN he supported the GOP.

370 A Mom Anon  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 5:14:52am

re: #369 Vicious Babushka

Now I have a pain behind my eye. I am however glad I don’t have a Twitter account. One of my better decisions. Yes, Malcolm X was killed by Democrats because he was an outspoken Republican…bwahahahahaha! Did it ever occur to this dumbass that he didn’t like ANY political party?

What frightens me is that most of these nutbars are operating heavy machinery on the roads every day. Stupid and angry is no way to go through life kids, seriously.

371 A Mom Anon  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 5:19:10am

re: #368 Justanotherhuman

It’s neat, I just worry it might get used against actual victims of abuse. Especially by large institutions that shall remain nameless…. Not that it’s not useful, the more we learn about the brain the better, but that’s always where my mind goes, towards real victims- who are nearly always blamed and slandered, whenever I read about things like this.

372 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 5:19:11am
373 A Mom Anon  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 5:22:30am

re: #372 Vicious Babushka

Vultures and parasites too. I swear there’s a large percentage of rich assholes who won’t be happy until most of the planet is a smoking heap of nothing. Of course the idiots don’t realize that once everything is gone you can’t eat that big pile of money. Even with a lovely vinaigrette.

374 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 5:25:40am

re: #373 A Mom Anon

Vultures and parasites too. I swear there’s a large percentage of rich assholes who won’t be happy until most of the planet is a smoking heap of nothing. Of course the idiots don’t realize that once everything is gone you can’t eat that big pile of money. Even with a lovely vinaigrette.

I feel really bad now that I have not visited the DIA in years. When I was in high school I went there almost every day. I was an intern there in the summer of 1967—yes, during the riots. They had us stay overnight in the museum since it was safer than venturing outside.

Then we all got rides home with a police escort. Sadly the internship program we were participating in was cancelled for the season.

375 Varek Raith  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 5:27:11am

Big ass airbus just flew over. Really low. Kind of scary, actually…

376 BongCrodny  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 5:30:42am

Good morning!

How are the rest of the lick spital toady groupees today?

377 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 5:31:23am
378 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 5:31:53am

re: #372 Vicious Babushka

“New Yorker” Snob salivates over the thought of looting Detroit’s Art Treasures.

These people are pirates. They are Visigoths.

As if state-appointed emergency manager Kevyn D. Orr really gives a flying fuck about pensioners living in penury, as those retirees from Detroit city govt are soon to find out.

379 Lidane  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 5:33:55am

Oh my god people are still derping at me. The latest moron is telling me that Communism is just a label and that, “The underlying cult/pathology grows like a fungus in unions, universities, media, even Twitter.”

WTF. Morons.

380 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 5:34:49am

re: #378 Justanotherhuman

As if state-appointed emergency manager Kevyn D. Orr really gives a flying fuck about pensioners living in penury, as those retirees from Detroit city govt are soon to find out.

Kevyn (with a “y”) Orr and Rick Snyder would love nothing better than to snatch random citizens off the streets, chain them all together and auction them off to the highest bidder to work at Walmarts, McDonalds and Texas fertilizer factories.

If only they can figure out a way to get around that inconvenient 13th Amendment thingy.

381 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 5:36:25am

This day was going to happen eventually. Inception is coming.

Youtube Video

382 Lidane  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 5:36:50am
383 Lidane  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 5:38:52am

My surprise, etc. —

384 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 5:42:49am

re: #382 Lidane

Rand Paul only cares about “privacy and civil liberties” if he’s making money from them.

I can’t believe the NYT editor allowed this in, but I can see what they’re doing: “Staking out terrain on the hawkish right ahead of a potential White House bid, Mr. Christie, in remarkably stark terms, warned those advocating a crackdown on the surveillance programs — instituted under President George W. Bush and now being carried out under President Obama — that they would regret their positions.”

385 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 5:44:38am

re: #376 BongCrodny

Good morning!

How are the rest of the lick spital toady groupees today?

Feeling partickulary dethpicable, myself.

386 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 5:46:27am

re: #383 Lidane

Keeping people ignorant, denying the right to vote, encouraging irresponsible sex, knocking benefits out from under people, and promoting a State religion: That’s the R party in the NC General Assembly right now. Pat McCrory will just rubber stamp anything Art Pope and his gang want.

387 A Mom Anon  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 5:51:32am

re: #378 Justanotherhuman

Mr Orr is a fucking BANKRUPTCY ATTORNEY who works for one of the largest firms doing that work in the country. His actual job in Detroit however was supposed to be to prevent the bankruptcy in the first place. That firm has made an asston of money from this misadventure I’d bet.

God I am tired of assholes always winning.

388 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 5:54:17am

re: #387 A Mom Anon

Mr Orr is a fucking BANKRUPTCY ATTORNEY who works for one of the largest firms doing that work in the country. His actual job in Detroit however was supposed to be to prevent the bankruptcy in the first place. That firm has made an asston of money from this misadventure I’d bet.

God I am tired of assholes always winning.

Detroit’s main creditors are: Bank of America, Merrill Lynch, JP Morgan Chase, and UBS. In other words, financial giants who already possess 87% of all Teh Moneys that the Koch’s and the Waltons don’t have.

It just kills them that they don’t have the DIA art treasures and the last crust of bread from retired DPS schoolteachers.

389 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 5:56:34am

Mitt Romney is thinking “Dayum I want me a piece o’that! Ann would just love another Monet to decorate the stables!”

390 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 5:57:20am
391 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 5:58:39am

DERP. STILL BUTTHURT OVER LOSING THE ELECTION.

392 teresa  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 6:02:13am

Nice blog, here is the thing about Greenwald, he can’t believe he is out of the news already, he needs to be the center of attention, don’t you all know what an impotent uh important story he is telling here!
Glenn isn’t much different from a LaRouchie, he is very convinced of his own righteousness, 100% of the time. But he also is not a democrat and he never has been. Glenn is nothing more than a Koch supported libertarian demagog who writes his Ted Kaczynski style treatises day in and day out. It should be embarrassing for any publication to publish that drivel. But Salon kept him around for years because he brings in the page hits, and I am pretty sure the Guardian keeps him around for the same reason.

393 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 6:07:20am

re: #392 teresa

Whoa, Glenn is a Koch mouthpiece?

394 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 6:08:46am

re: #390 Vicious Babushka

Not just retired, but contractually obligated to receive pensions for which they worked.

I doubt that Rush or any of these assclowns would willingly give up any part of their employment benefits, or consider that their retirement benefits should disappear if their employer ran into trouble. No, they’d fight to preserve them to the greatest possible extent.

395 darthstar  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 6:10:52am

re: #393 Vicious Babushka

Whoa, Glenn is a Koch mouthpiece?

I believe Koch ring is the correct term.

396 darthstar  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 6:11:10am

Mornin’ all.

397 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 6:11:28am

re: #387 A Mom Anon

WTF? He’s not a member of the MI bar? michigan.gov

Looks as though this guy went through the revolving doors via FL & DC.

398 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 6:11:51am

re: #394 lawhawk

Not just retired, but contractually obligated to receive pensions for which they worked.

I doubt that Rush or any of these assclowns would willingly give up any part of their employment benefits, or consider that their retirement benefits should disappear if their employer ran into trouble. No, they’d fight to preserve them to the greatest possible extent.

Well of course because they think “I earned mine!” but “public employees add no wealth into the system!!!11!!!”

399 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 6:13:29am

re: #382 Lidane

[Embedded content]

I hate agreeing with Cristy on anything, but he certainly understands that Paul and the rest of the pseudo libertarians don’t care about anything other than the power they can get for themselves.

It would be nice if a certain troll here would learn that reality.

400 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 6:14:27am

Report: Detroit Red Wings to get new arena. A state agency okay’d the $450m bond act that allows the Red Wings to get a new arena built near Comerica Park and Ford Field to replace the Joe Louis Arena.

State officials said the overall project, which includes a total of $650 million in arena costs and retail, residential and restaurant development around the arena on 45 acres, would create 4,380 construction jobs.

The city’s bankruptcy is not expected to interfere with the project, which backers said consists of 56 percent private investment from Olympia Development and 44 percent public financing from tax capture in the Detroit Downtown Development Authority area.

That compares to an average of 25 percent private development for new major league sports stadiums and arenas around the nation, backers said.

“This new entertainment district will be much more than a new arena for the Detroit Red Wings,” Gov. Rick Snyder said in a statement. “This is a project that will help revitalize Detroit. This project creates another major destination point for residents and visitors alike that builds on prior investments along Woodward from Comerica Park and Ford Field to the new Whole Foods in Midtown. The Ilitch family organization is making an enormous investment in the city and state bond financing makes this project a true public-private partnership.”

Last month, Olympia Development of Michigan, an Ilitch-owned company, signed a memorandum of understanding with the Downtown Development Authority and Wayne County that provides the framework for the financing of what’s being called the “Catalyst Development Project.”

Snyder has defended the bond act, over claims that the city shouldn’t be taking on this kind of project at a time when it can’t pay its bills and provide basic services.

I agree; the city shouldn’t be taking on bonding for this arena when the private entities that own the team should be able to do so if they want it badly enough. But at the same time, it would provide new jobs, help redevelop and centralize services/entertainment and help spur redevelopment in the city core.

401 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 6:16:04am
402 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 6:16:21am

re: #400 lawhawk

There’s an upside—they can hire the retired schoolteachers as hod carriers.

403 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 6:17:25am

re: #400 lawhawk

Report: Detroit Red Wings to get new arena. A state agency okay’d the $450m bond act that allows the Red Wings to get a new arena built near Comerica Park and Ford Field to replace the Joe Louis Arena.

Snyder has defended the bond act, over claims that the city shouldn’t be taking on this kind of project at a time when it can’t pay its bills and provide basic services.

I agree; the city shouldn’t be taking on bonding for this arena when the private entities that own the team should be able to do so if they want it badly enough. But at the same time, it would provide new jobs, help redevelop and centralize services/entertainment and help spur redevelopment in the city core.

Who owns the Red Wings and how much was contributed to the Governor’s election campaign? That’s what the real story is.

Honestly if I were in a state government I’d be fighting for a state constitutional amendment banning the spending of any public money on privately owned sporting teams. Only teams owned by the community should get assistance from the community, like in Green Bay.

404 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 6:20:25am

re: #403 William Barnett-Lewis

Who owns the Red Wings and how much was contributed to the Governor’s election campaign? That’s what the real story is.

Honestly if I were in a state government I’d be fighting for a state constitutional amendment banning the spending of any public money on privately owned sporting teams. Only teams owned by the community should get assistance from the community, like in Green Bay.

Mike Ilitch: owns the Red Wings and also a whole bunch of property in Downtown Detroit that he wants to develop instead of holding on to the ruins, like the Bridge Troll.

405 darthstar  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 6:21:26am

Fuckers.

406 darthstar  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 6:22:47am

re: #405 darthstar

Fuckers.

[Embedded content]

The company “signed a cooperation and guilty plea agreement,” will pay the maximum fine of $200,000, and undergo three years of probation. It also had already made a $55 million voluntary contribution to the National Fish and Wildlife Foundation.

That’s not a fine, it’s an incentive.

407 Varek Raith  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 6:24:11am

re: #406 darthstar

That’s not a fine, it’s an incentive.

Shit, that fine is missing three zeroes…

408 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 6:24:50am

re: #406 darthstar

That’s not a fine, it’s an incentive.

A second’s income, shot to hell!

409 freetoken  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 6:25:25am
410 darthstar  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 6:25:51am

re: #407 Varek Raith

Shit, that fine is missing three zeroes…

Four.

411 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 6:26:19am

re: #407 Varek Raith

Shit, that fine is missing three six zeroes…

FTFY.

412 Carlos Danger  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 6:28:36am

re: #383 Lidane

My surprise, etc. —

[Embedded content]

So North Carolina saved democracy from all the people who couldn’t afford to donate 5,000 to a state campaign. Fungible money, my ass.

413 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 6:28:54am

re: #403 William Barnett-Lewis

Carolinas Panthers owner (he’s worth $500M personally): deadspin.com

Charlotte floated bonds to build the stadium, and now are spending even further on it: charlotteobserver.com

414 freetoken  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 6:31:37am

Rare is the politician who will take on the issues of the roll of professional sports companies in our society.

415 darthstar  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 6:33:08am

re: #409 freetoken

Circular firing squad is firing:

Sen. Richard Burr: Republicans shutting down govt. over Obamacare is ‘the dumbest idea’ ever

Cornyn, too. It’s really strange when Republicans say something sensible. Feel I have to verify it at three sources before I can believe it

416 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 6:34:01am
417 Carlos Danger  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 6:40:17am

re: #413 Justanotherhuman

Been to Charlotte once. Even if the team isn’t “tethered” to the city, the downtown sure is. It’s one of the only ways they can get the suburbanites into the city.

God forbid any improvement should happen to the ring of poverty that seems to ring the city. They don’t, uh, have a team to blackmail.

418 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 6:41:05am

re: #417 Carlos Danger

Been to Charlotte once. Even if the team isn’t “tethered” to the city, the downtown sure is. It’s one of the only ways they can get the suburbanites into the city.

God forbid any improvement should happen to the ring of poverty that seems to ring the city. They don’t, uh, have a team to blackmail.

Sounds like another Detroit waiting to happen.

419 Varek Raith  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 6:41:19am

re: #415 darthstar

Cornyn, too. It’s really strange when Republicans say something sensible. Feel I have to verify it at three sources before I can believe it

[Embedded content]

Fish out of water!

420 darthstar  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 6:43:10am

HA HA HA!

“If we want to stop this train wreck from hitting hard-working American families, the time to do so is now. What the administration desperately wants is to get to January, to get the exchanges in place and subsidies in place … they want people hooked on ObamaCare so it can never be unwound. If we’re going to repeal it, we’ve got to do so now or it will remain with us forever.”

So let me try to follow Cruz’s logic here: ObamaCare is going to be a disaster, a trainwreck, a total mess. In fact, it’s going to be such a trainwreck that if we allow it to be implemented, the American people are going to absolutely love it and will never allow it to be repealed.

Confused? I guess that’s what happens when a Harvard-educated national debating champion like Cruz goes head to head against a Harvard-educated national debating champion like Cruz

Boom!

421 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 6:44:06am

re: #416 Vicious Babushka

Going to donate and work to get Hillary elected. Would much, much rather be doing it for EW, but the timing might never be right.

422 darthstar  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 6:46:28am
423 Carlos Danger  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 6:47:12am

re: #418 Vicious Babushka

Oh I’ve got a story for you:

Christie’s under fire for visit to Detroit art museum

424 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 6:47:19am

re: #421 Decatur Deb

Going to donate and work to get Hillary elected. Would much, much rather be doing it for EW, but the timing might never be right.

The problem that I have with Hillary is that in 2008 she seemed to have this Ann Romney-ish attitude that she was “entitled” that it was “her turn.” Warren seems to be actually doing some good for the people.

425 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 6:47:55am

re: #423 Carlos Danger

Oh I’ve got a story for you:

Christie’s under fire for visit to Detroit art museum

To clarify: Christie’s Auction House, not Chris Christie.

426 chadu  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 6:48:09am

Made a page about vandalism at the Lincoln Memorial:

littlegreenfootballs.com

OH, just saw it got promoted! Thankee!

427 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 6:48:55am

re: #421 Decatur Deb

Going to donate and work to get Hillary elected. Would much, much rather be doing it for EW, but the timing might never be right.

I believe it would be better for the nation for Warren to remain in the senate and get serious seniority over the years. I also don’t think Hillary will run again.

Perhaps Gillibrand or Feingold will run…

428 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 6:50:42am

re: #424 Vicious Babushka

The problem that I have with Hillary is that in 2008 she seemed to have this Ann Romney-ish attitude that she was “entitled” that it was “her turn.” Warren seems to be actually doing some good for the people.

Walmart Board of Directors. Nevertheless, we’re faced with a choice between her and some rabid weasel.

429 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 6:56:16am

re: #417 Carlos Danger

Everything about “uptown” Charlotte (as the hipsters like to call it) is centered around the banking industry and sports and niche businesses that support them. The real poverty is more concentrated on the west side of town, traditionally the most segregated area, esp around 5 points at Johnson C Smith Univ, but it is also spreading to the north and east sides as the middle class collapses. If you’re at a high enough income level, you might keep a condo in town (one of many that have sprung up) but your actual residence is in Ballantyne or Pipers Glen in south Charlotte, or in old money neighborhoods like Myers Park and Eastover (closer to town). It’s your middle mgrs, lower paid professionals, and clerical help that live in the suburbs, esp towns like Huntersville, Cornelius and other out-lying areas of Mecklenburg County, even across the SC line in the Rock Hill/Ft Mill area. I-77 is kept very busy.

Not many families can afford the very expensive nights out offered by going to “uptown” events.

430 chadu  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 7:01:00am

re: #127 ericblair

Which is also a little ironic coming from Greenwald. The real gems of Orwell’s work aren’t 1984 and Animal Farm; he’s got several nonfiction books like Road to Wigan Pier and an anthology of essays that lay out his political thought, and he had a few things to say about the socialists of his day and political writing.

Read The Road to Wigan Pier my freshman year in college, and it seriously changed my life. Made me re-examine a lot of toxic thoughts I was holding, having been raised in them.

431 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 7:01:48am

re: #395 darthstar

I believe Koch ring is the correct term.

He’s the middle segment of a Koch Human Centipede that includes Bryan Fischer and Rand Paul.

432 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 7:16:38am
433 chadu  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 7:17:19am

re: #260 Targetpractice

Ah, arrogance and stupidity, all in the same package. How efficient of you.

Upding for the Londo quoye!

434 chadu  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 7:19:28am

re: #270 OhNoZombies!

First of all, don’t call me dude.

Second, if they voted down the bill the Prez. didn’t like, and voted for the fig leaf, how is that giving him the finger. That sounds like a CYA move if I ever saw one.

Third, Greenwald is full of it. No complaints from him when Bush enacted all of this crap, in fact, he basically said the government can do what it wants.

But Obama, well…
Typical.

If Snowden really cared about privacy and human rights, he would have avoided China, and Russia.
Just sayin.
The facts are clear, it’s your interpretation that leaves me wanting.

This.

435 Carlos Danger  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 7:22:00am

re: #429 Justanotherhuman

Charlotte’s actually one of the nicer cities in the South, but they all seem to have rather stark geographical distinctions (esp. on racial lines) between yuppies, poor people, and McMansions on the outside.

436 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 7:22:52am

Ironic to think about Orwell today given that it’s Huxley’s birthday today. I remain more concerned about what a brave new world we live in than in the threat of 1984.

Some interesting graphics comparing the two…

Image: orwell-huxley-world.png

Ok, second try on that first image…

Image: Orwell.jpg

437 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 7:25:21am
438 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 7:25:27am

re: #436 William Barnett-Lewis

Didn’t come up readable or embiggenable.

439 chadu  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 7:25:47am

re: #329 Heywood Jabloeme

Clapper, who works for Obama by the way, explicitly denied that Metadata was collected. Then, after the Snowden leaks, wrote a letter to the Senate appolgizing for doing so.

Before the leaks, Obama seemed to imply that the US Govt didn’t collect Metadata then after the leaks had to back off and admit that they did.

Before the leaks, the NSA webiste explicitly said that they didn’t. They had to change it after the leaks when Senator Wyden pointed it out.

Ok so show me how well you can comunicate by documenting something SIGNIFICANT that Snowden lied about.

They were not allowed to admit metadata was collected, because it was a goddamn secret program, and Wyden knew that.

Playing politics.

440 freetoken  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 7:26:01am

re: #438 Decatur Deb

Didn’t come up readable or embiggenable.

I’m sure that’ll be in the OED, someday.

441 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 7:27:15am

re: #379 Lidane

Oh my god people are still derping at me. The latest moron is telling me that Communism is just a label and that, “The underlying cult/pathology grows like a fungus in unions, universities, media, even Twitter.”

WTF. Morons.

Does that mean he’s calling himself a communist?

442 chadu  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 7:27:24am

re: #330 piratedan

and I was supposed to know that how exactly?

then…. as a courtesy, don’t attribute it to me….

you wanna support GG and Snowden, feel free. You want to point out the potential abuses in the system, that is a fine and noble calling but you are missing a couple of extremely key items imho… both GG and Snowden have alleged that the US Government and specifically the NSA have broken laws. I have yet to see any proof in any publication listing what laws have been violated and how they have been violated.

the only laws that anyone has any proof of being broken are by Snowden himself, in illegally downloading classified documents in violation of the Espionage Act, which Snowden has freely admitted to doing. I have a pretty solid understanding that breaking laws that you feel are unjust can very well be an act of civil disobedience, as I’ve cited above, the people who do so (engaging in civil disobedience) break those laws and turn themselves in, in order to protest the existence of those laws.

THIS!

Bolded/italicized for the important bits.

443 freetoken  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 7:28:15am

re: #437 Vicious Babushka

Mule calves.

444 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 7:29:27am

re: #438 Decatur Deb

Didn’t come up readable or embiggenable.

Tried to edit. The second one is too big apparently so right click it to a new tab and then embiggen.

445 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 7:31:32am

re: #436 William Barnett-Lewis

Ironic to think about Orwell today given that it’s Huxley’s birthday today. I remain more concerned about what a brave new world we live in than in the threat of 1984.

Some interesting graphics comparing the two…

Image: orwell-huxley-world.png

Image: Orwell.jpg

Shorter: Huxley won.

446 freetoken  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 7:32:48am

re: #445 Vicious Babushka

Shorter: Huxley won.

In the Land of Snooki, anyway.

447 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 7:32:53am

Well, isn’t it better that they should eat ice cream and enjoy entertainments than killing the shit out of people?

448 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 7:33:27am
449 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 7:33:53am

There’s that stupid Fake Quote again, now they’re attributing it to Paine (who never said it) instead of Jefferson (who never said it).
I also see that “Rachel Payton” is another Koch shill, like Inez.

450 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 7:34:11am

re: #440 freetoken

I’m sure that’ll be in the OED, someday.

The Bad Astronomy site uses many variations, recently “encytherize’ to embiggen a photo of Venus.

451 Weet  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 7:35:46am

re: #406 darthstar

That’s not a fine, it’s an incentive.

The significance of the plea is that it strengthens the government’s hand in the civil case. Halliburton is likely to seek a settlement, now. The test will come when the deal is revealed.

452 A Mom Anon  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 7:36:14am

re: #397 Justanotherhuman

In other words the guy profits off the misery of other people. I guess the guy doesn’t have to be licensed by the Michigan bar assn because he’s not acting as an atty, he’s a Governor appointed “city manager”. Something the people of Michigan didn’t want, but who cares about the little people and what they think?

453 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 7:38:47am

re: #449 Vicious Babushka

There’s that stupid Fake Quote again, now they’re attributing it to Paine (who never said it) instead of Jefferson (who never said it).
I also see that “Rachel Payton” is another Koch shill, like Inez.

[Embedded content]

According to Monticello.org that quote is actually from John Basil Barnhill, some dude that nobody ever heard of who lived 100 years ago.

454 chadu  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 7:39:19am

re: #416 Vicious Babushka

I love that Senator.

I think she and Franken are two of the best we’ve got.

455 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 7:41:33am

re: #453 Vicious Babushka

According to Monticello.org that quote is actually from John Basil Barnhill, some dude that nobody ever heard of who lived 100 years ago.

Thinking the interns and ‘research assistants’ at Koch drink-tanks get some kind of merit badge for twitter derping.

456 Bulworth  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 7:41:37am

re: #449 Vicious Babushka

I wonder if they will remember this quote when Marco Rubio Rand Paul Ted Cruz is president?

457 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 7:42:26am

re: #455 Decatur Deb

Thinking the interns and ‘research assistants’ at Koch drink-tanks get some kind of merit badge for twitter derping.

While being paid minimum wage.

Oh wait, Inez got a raise. She now makes $12/hr!

458 b.d.  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 7:45:16am

Somebody’s screwed.

MOSCOW, July 26 (Reuters) - Russia’s FSB federal security agency and its U.S. counterpart, the FBI, are in talks over the fate of former U.S. spy agency contractor Edward Snowden, who is stuck at a Moscow airport, Russian President Vladimir Putin’s spokesman said on Friday.

Link

459 Gus  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 7:48:12am

WTF is this BS?


No torture & no death penalty? Huh? Who said anything about that?

460 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 7:49:28am

re: #459 Gus

WTF is this BS?

[Embedded content]


No torture & no death penalty? Huh? Who said anything about that?

Disappointed. I so totally wanted him to be tortured and then put to death./////////////

461 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 7:50:30am

re: #459 Gus

Sounds like a block on a form that has to be checked.

462 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 7:51:32am


Gee, it’s easy to make promises on things that no one was suggesting - no death penalty? Fine, he can pound big rocks into little ones at Fort Leavenworth, and he can practice his binary code in that fashion.

No one was ever suggesting torture, so that’s a no brainer.

But I can’t wait to see Greenwald and the Snowden fans spin all this as inuring a benefit to Snowden. Because you know they’re going to try.

463 Gus  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 7:51:33am

re: #461 Decatur Deb

Sounds like a block on a form that has to be checked.

You mean the “BS Link Bait Tweet Form?”

464 steve_davis  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 7:51:48am

re: #54 Killgore Trout

He has made several efforts over the years to weed out the nuts. He did get them to dial back some of the gross demonetization of Jews and Israel. He also banned 9-11 truth and Ron Paul diaries. I’ll always applaud efforts of people to keep their own house clean but I really doubt he’s going to make much headway. The “reality based community” is a bit of a joke and today’s political culture is based on each side having their own separate versions of reality. That’s not going to change anytime soon and populist sites like Dkos are unlikely to become champions of reasonable political discourse.

that “gross demonization of Jews,” by the way, led to my goodbye cruel kos diary years ago. And, happily, to charles opening up the site here for an evening, shortly thereafter.

465 Internet Tough Guy  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 7:52:49am

re: #459 Gus

That’s so BS. Holder should guarantee that the DOJ will treat Snowden as well as the FSB would treat a security breach.

After all, Russia is the paragon of human rights and justice.

466 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 7:53:14am

Also most extradition treaties require that the person seeking extradition not be subject to convictions that could lead to the death penalty; it’s one reason that many European countries wont turn over suspects to US authorities in state crimes where the state has a death penalty for the crime alleged.

Sounds like this is just working out details along those lines.

467 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 7:53:55am

re: #463 Gus

You mean the “BS Link Bait Tweet Form?”

Like some of the EU countries that will not extradite any fugitive that faces DP at home. We have ruled it out in such individual cases.

468 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 7:54:24am

re: #464 steve_davis

that “gross demonization of Jews,” by the way, led to my goodbye cruel kos diary years ago. And, happily, to charles opening up the site here for an evening, shortly thereafter.

Um, Wonkette also has a Juice problem. I did not realize it until I saw all the “legitimate criticism of Israel” comments in the Helen Thomas thread. Uch.

469 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 7:54:47am

Looks like there’s a plea deal in the Ariel Castro case - life with no chance of parole.


Saves everyone the costs of a trial, and he’s never going to see the light of day.

470 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 7:55:17am

re: #457 Vicious Babushka

While being paid minimum wage.

Oh wait, Inez got a raise. She now makes $12/hr!

No I think she still makes minimum wage, the Kochs just pay her $5/hr extra each day to post on Twitter.

471 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 7:56:02am

re: #469 lawhawk

Looks like there’s a plea deal in the Ariel Castro case - life with no chance of parole.

Saves everyone the costs of a trial, and he’s never going to see the light of day.

Going for the death penalty for inducing an abortion was over the top, and would have opened a can of nasty worms.

472 piratedan  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 7:57:07am

re: #449 Vicious Babushka

There’s that stupid Fake Quote again, now they’re attributing it to Paine (who never said it) instead of Jefferson (who never said it).
I also see that “Rachel Payton” is another Koch shill, like Inez.

[Embedded content]

when people use fake quotes, it is idiocy

473 Carlos Diggler  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 7:57:30am

re: #459 Gus

No torture & no death penalty? Huh? Who said anything about that?

But will he have access to the internet?

474 Lidane  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 7:57:42am

re: #459 Gus

No torture & no death penalty? Huh? Who said anything about that?

Greenwald’s fever dreams. That’s who.

The fact that the US has to outright say, “No, we’re not going to kill him or send him to Gitmo” is ridiculous, just because the glibertarians and fauxgressives won’t believe it anyway.

475 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 7:58:25am

re: #473 BigPapa

But will he have access to the internet?

Only the Geraldo tweet from earlier this week.

476 Mateo Scrounge  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 7:58:25am

re: #376 BongCrodny

Good morning!

How are the rest of the lick spital toady groupees today?

Does ‘groupee’ rhyme with ‘toupee’?

477 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 7:58:37am

re: #472 piratedan

when people use fake quotes, it is idiocy

It’s actually a Real Quote, but it was said by some random dude that nobody ever heard of or gives a shit about, so they attribute it to Jefferson or Paine.

I never understood the purpose of spamming these quotes anyway. Appeal to Authority?

478 Gus  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 7:59:13am

re: #466 lawhawk

Also most extradition treaties require that the person seeking extradition not be subject to convictions that could lead to the death penalty; it’s one reason that many European countries wont turn over suspects to US authorities in state crimes where the state has a death penalty for the crime alleged.

Sounds like this is just working out details along those lines.

Just reading that. The optics are horrible. No torture? Did Holder or the DOJ actually say that?

479 chadu  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 7:59:27am

re: #477 Vicious Babushka

It’s actually a Real Quote, but it was said by some random dude that nobody ever heard of or gives a shit about, so they attribute it to Jefferson or Paine.

I never understood the purpose of spamming these quotes anyway. Appeal to Authority?

Appeal to Authority + Observer Bias + Reality Bubble = PROFIT!

480 b.d.  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 7:59:52am

re: #459 Gus

WTF is this BS?

[Embedded content]


No torture & no death penalty? Huh? Who said anything about that?

There is nothing in the linked story at all about death penalty or torture?

481 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:00:05am

re: #477 Vicious Babushka

It’s actually a Real Quote, but it was said by some random dude that nobody ever heard of or gives a shit about, so they attribute it to Jefferson or Paine.

I never understood the purpose of spamming these quotes anyway. Appeal to Authority?

Goes with the tricorn hat and powder horn.

482 b.d.  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:00:21am

re: #473 BigPapa

But will he have access to the internet?

Dial up is considered torture!

483 Gus  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:00:34am

re: #480 b.d.

There is nothing in the linked story at all about death penalty or torture?

Not in that one. Reading it in other places.

484 Dr Lizardo, Drooling Jingoist  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:00:55am

re: #475 Eclectic Cyborg

Only the Geraldo tweet from earlier this week.

Here’s the one and only webpage he’ll be able to access.

originalhampster.ytmnd.com

485 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:00:59am

re: #482 b.d.

Dial up is considered torture!

On an acoustic coupler.

486 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:01:44am

Neuroscientists plant false memories in the brain
web.mit.edu
Cool

Can they plant one into mine about that incredible weekend I spent in The Bahamas with Sofia Vergara!?!?!?!

487 piratedan  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:01:58am

re: #477 Vicious Babushka

a vacuous attempt to elevate their discourse by associating their position with someone of historical merit. Words/thoughts/ideas can have meaning and power all their own, so if you have something worth saying, just feel free to say it.

hence why I don’t tweet very often (although I have an account) I’m too damn verbose….

488 b.d.  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:05:35am

re: #483 Gus

Not in that one. Reading it in other places.

We also need to clarify before all is done that solitary is not considered torture. Some of the Manning supporters seem somewhat confused on that one.

489 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:07:03am

re: #462 lawhawk

I’m thinking about the poutrage that will erupt over Snowjob even being returned to the US.

490 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:07:45am

re: #471 Vicious Babushka

Going for the death penalty for inducing an abortion was over the top, and would have opened a can of nasty worms.

he’s charged with a tad more than “inducing an abortion”

The indictment included two counts of aggravated murder related to accusations that he punched and starved one woman until she miscarried. The former school bus driver also was charged with hundreds of counts of kidnapping and rape, plus assault and other counts.
news.yahoo.com

491 Gus  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:07:46am

re: #488 b.d.

We also need to clarify before all is done that solitary is not considered torture. Some of the Manning supporters seem somewhat confused on that one.

Try here: reuters.com

Still loading for me.

492 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:07:47am

re: #488 b.d.

We also need to clarify before all is done that solitary is not considered torture. Some of the Manning supporters seem somewhat confused on that one.

But at one point the conditions were reportedly so degrading that they were corrected when revealed.

493 Bulworth  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:10:22am

re: #469 lawhawk

Sounds like the victims really didn’t want to have to testify, so this deal saves them that.

494 Mateo Scrounge  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:11:02am

re: #477 Vicious Babushka

It’s actually a Real Quote, but it was said by some random dude that nobody ever heard of or gives a shit about, so they attribute it to Jefferson or Paine.

I never understood the purpose of spamming these quotes anyway. Appeal to Authority?

Of course! The prefer authority to knowledge, that’s why they think if Darwin recanted on his deathbed it debunks all of Evolution.

495 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:11:35am

re: #492 Decatur Deb

Key word: “reportedly”. One person’s caviar is just another’s ewww! fish eggs.

496 b.d.  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:12:10am

re: #491 Gus

Try here: reuters.com

Still loading for me.

Cool, thank you. That’s some pretty basic boilerplate stuff.

Noticed this banner headline on your link:

No announcement about Fed chair is imminent, and likely won’t come until the fall: senior White House official

So now we’ll have months of people tearing their hair out over the possibility of Summers?

The guy is bloody awful but I don’t know if I can stand months of garment rendering over speculation.

497 BongCrodny  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:12:12am

re: #476 Mateo Scourge

Does ‘groupee’ rhyme with ‘toupee’?

I remember thinking that in one small group of four words, he managed to misspell three.

So, yeah, they probably do rhyme.

498 Dr Lizardo, Drooling Jingoist  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:12:21am

re: #495 Justanotherhuman

Key word: “reportedly”. One person’s caviar is just another’s ewww! fish eggs.

Unless its Kalles Kaviar. Then it’s epic.

en.wikipedia.org

499 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:13:00am

re: #495 Justanotherhuman

Key word: “reportedly”. One person’s caviar is just another’s ewww! fish eggs.

“Reportedly” because I wasn’t there to see it. Most of the facts on the Intertubes aren’t.

500 b.d.  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:13:56am

re: #492 Decatur Deb

But at one point the conditions were reportedly so degrading that they were corrected when revealed.

Agreed, and glad they were. His treatment was horrible but some were claiming that solitary itself was torture.

501 Mateo Scrounge  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:15:36am

So, where’s Glenn to tell us what a clever move going to Russia has turned out to be?

502 b.d.  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:16:02am
Ariel Castro accepts deal to plead guilty in Cleveland kidnappings, will get life plus 1,000 years in prison.

Per CNN banner headline

503 Gus  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:16:39am

re: #496 b.d.

Cool, thank you. That’s some pretty basic boilerplate stuff.

Noticed this banner headline on your link:

So now we’ll have months of people tearing their hair out over the possibility of Summers?

The guy is bloody awful but I don’t know if I can stand months of garment rendering over speculation.

You mean months of emo whining even though he would suck as Fed chief?

504 Dr Lizardo, Drooling Jingoist  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:16:44am

re: #502 b.d.

Life + 1,000 years? Wowzer.

505 Mateo Scrounge  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:17:49am

re: #504 Dr Lizardo

Life + 1,000 years? Wowzer.

But he’s eligible for parole 333 years after he dies.

506 b.d.  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:18:09am

re: #504 Dr Lizardo

Life + 1,000 years? Wowzer.

He can cut that in half with good behavior

507 Lidane  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:18:14am

ARGH. So a few weeks ago I met a potential client. Got invited to a speech the following week where their CEO was going to talk. My contact allowed me to stick around after it was done and basically crash their private company party so I could meet people.

My boss is in town this week. We get extra metrics for having a manager at our meetings. For me, since all my managers are in Silicon Valley, those extra metrics are very rare. I’d hoped to get a follow-up with that client this week. No dice. The earliest he can see me again is next Thursday. I’m bummed.

Oh well. Back to the RFP grindstone for a different client. :-P

508 Gus  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:18:29am

re: #504 Dr Lizardo

Life + 1,000 years? Wowzer.

How does that work?

509 Dr Lizardo, Drooling Jingoist  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:18:35am

re: #505 Mateo Scourge

But he’s eligible for parole 333 years after he dies.

Oh, well………..that’s not so bad then, is it?

510 Carlos Diggler  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:18:54am

re: #504 Dr Lizardo

Life + 1,000 years? Wowzer.

That punishment does not match the crime. Life + 325 years is much more reasonable.

511 Dr Lizardo, Drooling Jingoist  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:19:29am

re: #508 Gus

How does that work?

That’s a good question. Do they continue to classify him as ‘incarcerated’ until the 1,000 years have fully passed?

512 Carlos Diggler  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:19:44am

Does this mean he gets buried in his prison cell?

How is this supposed to work?

513 Mateo Scrounge  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:19:49am

Mrs. Scourge asks if this means he has to be buried in the prison cemetery, so he stays on the grounds.

514 Bulworth  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:20:01am

re: #501 Mateo Scourge

So, where’s Glenn to tell us what a clever move going to Russia has turned out to be?

We’re just too dumber to understand how brilliant all this has been and Freedom. //

515 Mateo Scrounge  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:20:15am

re: #512 BigPapa

Does this mean he gets buried in his prison cell?

How is this supposed to work?

Missed it by 5 sec!

516 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:20:19am

re: #478 Gus

The optics are horrible, but the US simply assured Russia that Snowden would have all the protections of the U.S. civilian court system if he were sent home, Holder wrote in a letter to his Russian counterpart this week.

The bit about torture and death penalty was editorializing by media to identify what that scope includes.

517 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:20:26am

re: #486 sattv4u2

Neuroscientists plant false memories in the brain
web.mit.edu
Cool

Can they plant one into mine about that incredible weekend I spent in The Bahamas with Sofia Vergara!?!?!?!

Isn’t that basically how the Riddler got started in Batman Forever?

518 OhNoZombies!  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:20:32am

re: #376 BongCrodny

Good morning!

How are the rest of the lick spital toady groupees today?

Tired. What was I thinking?
If I wanted to bang my head against a wall, I should have just asked my kids to clean their rooms…

519 Bulworth  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:23:59am

So, I went up to NJ yesterday to finalize my late step-father’s estate and pick up my share of the estate. Intended to go up, do bidness, eat, and drive right back. But found out my step-siblings had just been at the executor’s office so I arranged a few hours of family time. One step-brother is permanently disabled so I’m glad I stayed a little extra to see him. Glad to be back home today even though I am at work.

520 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:24:51am

Good morning lizards!

521 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:25:47am

re: #508 Gus

How does that work?

In many states a sentence of ‘life” still makes you eligible for parole

Life plus a day (or anything longer), not so much

522 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:28:05am

I just love it when they eat their own.

523 Gus  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:30:05am

U.S. will not seek death penalty for Snowden, Holder says in letter to Russian officials

“The charges he faces do not carry that possibility, and the United States would not seek the death penalty even if Mr. Snowden were charged with additional death penalty-eligible crimes,” Holder wrote to Justice Minister Alexander Vladimirovich Konovalov.

“Torture is unlawful in the United States,” Holder wrote. “If he returns to the United States, Mr. Snowden would promptly be brought before a civilian court convened under Article III of the United States Constitution and supervised by a United States District Judge . . . Mr. Snowden would be appointed (or if so chose, could retain) counsel.”

524 Gus  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:31:32am
525 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:34:31am

Heh.

526 Bulworth  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:35:08am

re: #522 Vicious Babushka

RETWEET to Oust RINOs from Your neighborhood! //

527 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:38:07am
528 klys  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:38:25am

I see that last night’s comment thread continued to be just as …productive… after I gave up and went to do something more exciting.

Like watch clothes dry.

Morning groupthink-Lizards.

529 Lidane  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:39:44am

re: #525 NJDhockeyfan

Dear Chris Christie,

Please proceed.

Sincerely,
Me

530 steve_davis  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:42:12am

re: #468 Vicious Babushka

Um, Wonkette also has a Juice problem. I did not realize it until I saw all the “legitimate criticism of Israel” comments in the Helen Thomas thread. Uch.

Fortunately, many of the antisemites have moved on to RawStory, so now that they’ve eaten DailyKos down to the concrete slab, maybe I can email meteorblades and get unbanned. I’m not exactly mentally stable, but normally my policy ideas are pretty good :-)

531 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:43:01am

re: #524 Gus

Full letter from Eric Holder to Russian justice minister

I think Russian officials are probably getting tired of the Snowden distraction.

532 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:43:54am
533 Lidane  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:44:46am

re: #508 Gus

How does that work?

The same way that it would for someone serving consecutive life sentences. I think. Maybe the legal folks here have more insight.

It’s just a guarantee that he won’t get paroled or released again. He’s going to die in captivity. It’s poetic justice, in a way.

534 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:45:13am
535 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:45:23am

re: #533 Lidane

see #521

536 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:45:53am

re: #532 Vicious Babushka

And that is reason enough to treat prisoners, especially unconvicted ones, irreproachably.

537 Lidane  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:46:56am

re: #535 sattv4u2

That’s what I figured. Basically, he’d serve the life sentence first, then “serve” the next 1000 years in prison. It’s just a way to ensure that he won’t see the light of day ever again.

538 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:48:40am

re: #537 Lidane

That’s what I figured. Basically, he’d serve the life sentence first, then “serve” the next 1000 years in prison. It’s just a way to ensure that he won’t see the light of day ever again.

They want to avoid the ritual of Manson coming up for parole every couple of years.

539 Lidane  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:51:17am

re: #538 Vicious Babushka

They want to avoid the ritual of Manson coming up for parole every couple of years.

Ugh. Every time Manson comes up for parole you have the dipshits online wondering if he’s going to get out. Er, no. He’s not. Manson will die in prison too.

540 b.d.  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:52:28am

re: #531 Justanotherhuman

I think Russian officials are probably getting tired of the Snowden distraction.

Heh, “He is eligible for a limited validity passport good for direct return to the United States. The United States is willing to immediately issue such a passport to Mr. Snowden.”

541 Internet Tough Guy  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:53:10am

re: #532 Vicious Babushka

So true. Glenn’s columns about Aaron Hernandez being thrown into solitary before he was even indicted were mov…

oh.

542 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:53:37am

re: #538 Vicious Babushka

They want to avoid the ritual of Manson coming up for parole every couple of years.

Um, no

Manson didn’t have an actual hand in the murders so his charges and sentence didn’t warrant Life PLUS (insert number) making him ineligible for parole

re: #539 Lidane
wondering if he’s going to get out. Er, no. He’s not. Manson will die in prison too.

Correct, because during those hearings he still shows no remorse and is still considered a danger

543 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:56:42am

AND NO ONE WILL EVER MAKE FUN OF UR FAKE QUOTES EVER!!11!!

544 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:56:45am

bbiab

545 b.d.  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:58:01am

re: #543 Vicious Babushka

AND NO ONE WILL EVER MAKE FUN OF UR FAKE QUOTES EVER!!11!!

[Embedded content]

That place is going to be as huge a runaway sucess as Conservapedia.

546 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:58:53am

re: #532 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

Prosecution alleged that Manning was suicidal (and guess who’s mentioned in this article, who’s actually been pushing this “abuse” meme?). Anyone intent on suicide will find something with which to off themselves, even clothing.

Prosecutors exhibit Bradley Manning’s noose
The U.S. government produces morbid evidence in attempt to justify detainment regime

salon.com

If Manning had succeeded in offing himself, there would be that. Or if someone in the general population had attacked and/or killed him (which isn’t such an unlikely scenario in a military brig), there would be that, too.

547 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:01:07am
548 b.d.  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:03:29am

re: #547 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

In their defense, quoting a fake Nazi experiment does seem better than quoting a real one.

//

549 Dr. Matt  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:05:58am
550 Mattand  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:06:18am

Sigh…

Friend on Facebook is promoting a Tweet from International Business Times that the US unemployment rate is actually 14%, not 7.6%. And this guy’s not a wingnut either.

It will not surprise me to discover that IBT is as unbiased at the Wall Street Journal, as in “Conservative as shit.”

The only bright side is that the lone comment on the article points out that the author is basically cherry picking dissimilar data to get to their point.

551 Dr. Matt  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:08:28am

re: #550 Mattand

IBT is a very respectable organization as they obtain their many of their facts from the highly respected Paris Business Review.

552 Bulworth  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:09:20am

re: #543 Vicious Babushka

The world’s just not safe for true conservatives these days….

//

553 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:09:35am

re: #549 Dr. Matt

BREAKING: House ethics committee announces it is investigating Republican Rep. Michelle Bachmann - @AP

— NewsBreaker (@NewsBreaker) July 26, 2013

Might be better if they would just get a psychoanalyst to evaluate her.

554 piratedan  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:12:14am

re: #553 Eventual Carrion

hell, if they just drag her into the direct sunlight, she should begin melting almost immediately //

555 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:13:22am

What is this… I can’t even…

556 Mattand  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:13:33am

re: #551 Dr. Matt

IBT is a very respectable organization as they obtain their many of their facts from the highly respected Paris Business Review.

Interesting. I’m still having a hard time believing the article, as the only other place I hear those unemployment numbers is from the idiots at Fox.

So either:

1) Fox and IBT are right, and the feds are lying about the true unemployment rate

2) Fox and IBT are full of shit.

We know why Fox would publish numbers like that if #2 is correct; I don’t know what IBT’s motive is (and no, I’m not buying “It’s just a mistake.”)

557 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:15:45am

re: #556 Mattand

Interesting. I’m still having a hard time believing the article, as the only other place I hear those unemployment numbers is from the idiots at Fox.

So either:

1) Fox and IBT are right, and the feds are lying about the true unemployment rate

2) Fox and IBT are full of shit.

We know why Fox would publish numbers like that if #2 is correct; I don’t know what IBT’s motive is (and no, I’m not buying “It’s just a mistake.”)

There is supposedly a “hidden unemployment rate” that includes all workers who aren’t counted in the official unemployment stats because they have “given up in despair” or gone back to school or started their own business or retired or died.

558 freetoken  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:18:12am

re: #556 Mattand

From the article:

This other figure, known as U6, is often buried in monthly job reports and includes the unemployed, those “marginally attached” to the labor force (that is, they want a job but have largely given up looking), and those who are working part-time but want full-time jobs.

“Buried” sounds all nasty and conspiratorial.

But in reality few Americans read the BLM reports. Heck, most people don’t even know what “BLM” is.

Where’s that Brave New World diagram when you need it…

559 Dr. Matt  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:18:27am

re: #556 Mattand

SORRY! I should have added a sarcasm tag. FYI….Paris Business Review is a fake journal that Bill O’Reilly cited years ago to prove that his “boycott” against France was working. :)

560 OhNoZombies!  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:18:33am

re: #555 Vicious Babushka

That must have sounded clever in her head.

561 freetoken  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:19:04am

re: #558 freetoken

foo… BLS, not BLM.

pimf…

562 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:21:44am
563 Bulworth  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:22:19am

re: #560 OhNoZombies!

She’s gonna be embarrassed when she grows up and looks back on this era of her childhood.

564 Mattand  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:23:52am

re: #559 Dr. Matt

SORRY! I should have added a sarcasm tag. FYI….Paris Business Review is a fake journal that Bill O’Reilly cited years ago to prove that his “boycott” against France was working. :)

LOL! Too funny.

re: #557 Vicious Babushka

re: #558 freetoken

So, in order to answer the inevitable blowback I’m going to get, the unemployment rate really is 14%? I have to admit I’m a little confused on this.

565 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:24:24am

re: #550 Mattand

Sigh…

Friend on Facebook is promoting a Tweet from International Business Times that the US unemployment rate is actually 14%, not 7.6%. And this guy’s not a wingnut either.

It will not surprise me to discover that IBT is as unbiased at the Wall Street Journal, as in “Conservative as shit.”

The only bright side is that the lone comment on the article points out that the author is basically cherry picking dissimilar data to get to their point.

This reporter sounds like a self-aggrandizing manipulator of numbers: linkedin.com

566 freetoken  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:25:11am

re: #564 Mattand

What is “unemployment rate”?

There are several definitions, which is why there are several numbers.

567 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:26:05am
568 Bulworth  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:28:10am

re: #564 Mattand

the unemployment rate really is 14%?

No, it’s not. Certainly not in any consistently historical way that it has ever been measured.

569 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:28:52am

re: #564 Mattand

LOL! Too funny.

So, in order to answer the inevitable blowback I’m going to get, the unemployment rate really is 14%? I have to admit I’m a little confused on this.

I don’t know how they calculate “seekrit” unemployment rate since there is no reliable method of collecting that information.

I was unemployed from 2007-2010 and after my UB ran out I was sure that I would never find another job again ever. I think I randomly Googled “Green Jobs in MI” and found the job listing that I applied to (it did have something to do with hybrid vehicles). I also accepted a really low salary JUST TO GET BACK IN THE FREAKING GAME.

570 piratedan  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:29:49am

re: #564 Mattand

that could very well be true, if you decide to add in all of the outliers that are usually excluded on these reports. There are people who have given up, there are many who are severely underemployed yet the methodology that has been adopted by both sides, are to use the numbers cited. It’s like, everyone understands that this number could very well be the “true” number depending upon how you choose to define it but since no one has yet, no one does so. One of the reasons why, If R’s start trotting out that number now, that means that Dems have just cause to cite those same numbers when R’s were in charge and R’s REALLY don’t want to cite unemployment numbers because they haven’t done jack shit to make those numbers improve and they know it.

571 Mattand  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:30:25am

re: #566 freetoken

What is “unemployment rate”?

There are several definitions, which is why there are several numbers.

Yeah, I just looked it up on Wikipedia, of all places.

Apparently, if you factor in part-time “underemployed”, it’s 14.3% (as of Feb 2013).

Beginning to sound like this is one of those stats you trot out when you’re trying to make the black guy in the White House look bad.

572 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:30:39am

DERP.
Presidents have hosted Iftar at the White House since Clinton.

573 calochortus  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:31:52am

Good morning all.
My word of the day is Leaks. No, not national security-the car is leaking oil and I can only hope the kind folks at the garage have found the location (and that they won’t be able to make more than one boat payment with the money it costs me.) My pipes are leaking water and a plumber is on the way to put in a shut off to the offending area to take care of the issue until we can come up with a plan to fix the pipe that runs under the patio and up through it. Gah.
So, I may disappear suddenly when the plumber arrives.

How is everyone else’s day?

574 Bulworth  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:32:00am

re: #568 Bulworth

However, unemployment is still higher than it needs to be. I hope the IBD writer believes the Fed should have a responsibility to help promote full employment (but I doubt it).

575 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:33:21am

re: #574 Bulworth

However, unemployment is still higher than it needs to be. I hope the IBD writer believes the Fed should have a responsibility to help promote full employment (but I doubt it).

Not only full employment but also living wage.

If everybody had a job but all the jobs were at Walmart that would suck.

576 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:34:39am

DERPTY DERP

577 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:35:16am

re: #573 calochortus

How is everyone else’s day?
Dry!!

(sorry, couldn’t resist)

578 calochortus  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:36:20am

There’s the plumber now, yay-bbl.

579 Mattand  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:36:49am

re: #570 piratedan

that could very well be true, if you decide to add in all of the outliers that are usually excluded on these reports. There are people who have given up, there are many who are severely underemployed yet the methodology that has been adopted by both sides, are to use the numbers cited. It’s like, everyone understands that this number could very well be the “true” number depending upon how you choose to define it but since no one has yet, no one does so. One of the reasons why, If R’s start trotting out that number now, that means that Dems have just cause to cite those same numbers when R’s were in charge and R’s REALLY don’t want to cite unemployment numbers because they haven’t done jack shit to make those numbers improve and they know it.

Heh, you’re assuming that the average American Republican embraces logic and has a conscience.

You are right, though. I occasionally see this bubble up on Fox from time-to-time, but the GOP never seems to run with it. Probably for the reason you cite.

580 Lidane  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:37:10am

re: #572 Vicious Babushka

DERP.
Presidents have hoster Iftar at the White House since Clinton.

[Embedded content]

But those Presidents weren’t scary black Moozlim tyrants that head up Al Qaeda!

//////////

581 Bulworth  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:37:11am

re: #576 Vicious Babushka

VOLUMES!!!!!

//

582 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:37:20am
583 b.d.  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:38:35am

re: #576 Vicious Babushka

DERPTY DERP

[Embedded content]

Shaddup Sirota,

Read the damn letter. The reason Holder stated that he wouldn’t be tortured or executed is that what Snowden claimed was going to happen to him. Holder would write that Snowden wouldn’t be smothered by hippos if that what Snowden was babbling about.

584 Lidane  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:38:41am

re: #582 NJDhockeyfan

Works for me. Filner is a sleazebag and an asshole.

585 Bulworth  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:38:45am

re: #580 Lidane

Yeah, MB runs the WH now. //

586 piratedan  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:39:29am

re: #582 NJDhockeyfan

Filner probably would resign, but only if he gets a free grope and a topless shot from Wasserman-Schultz. //

587 Carlos Danger  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:41:08am

re: #571 Mattand

Yeah, I just looked it up on Wikipedia, of all places.

Apparently, if you factor in part-time “underemployed”, it’s 14.3% (as of Feb 2013).

Beginning to sound like this is one of those stats you trot out when you’re trying to make the black guy in the White House look bad.

Never saw anyone actually use the U-6 metric in the mass media until a couple of years ago. That used to be stuff I saw on message boards when someone wanted to make a point vs Bush or Obama.

588 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:42:20am

re: #572 Vicious Babushka

DERP.
Presidents have hosted Iftar at the White House since Clinton.

[Embedded content]

Just waiting for that derpish hair-gel.

589 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:42:47am

Well, uh, yeah they are “Anti-Racism against Whites” and they are also “Pro Civil Rights” for the oppressed Whites!

590 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:43:15am

re: #550 Mattand

Sigh…

Friend on Facebook is promoting a Tweet from International Business Times that the US unemployment rate is actually 14%, not 7.6%. And this guy’s not a wingnut either.

It will not surprise me to discover that IBT is as unbiased at the Wall Street Journal, as in “Conservative as shit.”

The only bright side is that the lone comment on the article points out that the author is basically cherry picking dissimilar data to get to their point.

The BLS produces a number of unemployment statistics.

U1 through U6.

U3 is the measure typically reported: Total unemployed, as a percent of the civilian labor force (official unemployment rate). U6 is a much more expansive view on unemployment, that takes into account the total unemployed, plus all persons marginally attached to the labor force, plus total employed part time for economic reasons, as a percent of the civilian labor force plus all persons marginally attached to the labor force.

Thing is that at all times, the U6 rate will be higher than the U3 rate. Sometimes significantly so.

591 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:45:02am

re: #584 Lidane

Works for me. Filner is a sleazebag and an asshole.

I don’t see him lasting past this weekend unless he’s really out of his mind.

592 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:46:31am

re: #555 Vicious Babushka

@InezFeltscher Doubling back and beating the person following you is a SYG-sanctioned action in FL. No duty to retreat if you felt threatened by the guy following you.

593 darthstar  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:48:55am

[Snowden has] applied for temporary asylum in Russia and has said he’d like to visit the countries that offered him permanent asylum - Venezuela, Bolivia and Nicaragua.

594 kirkspencer  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:49:11am

re: #592 lawhawk

@InezFeltscher Doubling back and beating the person following you is a SYG-sanctioned action in FL. No duty to retreat if you felt threatened by the guy following you.

Well, except that SYG only applies if you kill the other person. If you don’t kill them then laws about assault, battery, and things like that apply.

595 darthstar  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:51:25am

re: #594 kirkspencer

Well, except that SYG only applies if you kill the other person. If you don’t kill them then laws about assault, battery, and things like that apply.

The best victim is a dead victim. Easier to argue against them in court.

596 b.d.  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:53:23am

re: #593 darthstar

[Snowden has] applied for temporary asylum in Russia and has said he’d like to visit the countries that offered him permanent asylum - Venezuela, Bolivia and Nicaragua.

[Embedded content]

What an ego! Now he is going to offer himself up to the country that ponies up the nicest digs?

597 OhNoZombies!  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:53:38am

Holder should have added that the U.S. gov. wouldn’t hire the Triads to assassinate him as well.
///
Edward Snowden Interview Transcript …

Snowden: “Yeah, I could be rendered by the CIA. I could have people come after me. Or any of the third-party partners. They work closely with a number of other nations. Or they could pay off the Traids. Any of their agents or assets. We’ve got a CIA station just up the road and the consulate here in Hong Kong and I’m sure they’re going to be very busy for the next week…

598 b.d.  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:55:49am

re: #597 OhNoZombies!

Holder should have added that the U.S. gov. wouldn’t hire the Triads to assassinate him as well.
///
Edward Snowden Interview Transcript …

Snowden: “Yeah, I could be rendered by the CIA. I could have people come after me. Or any of the third-party partners. They work closely with a number of other nations. Or they could pay off the Traids. Any of their agents or assets. We’ve got a CIA station just up the road and the consulate here in Hong Kong and I’m sure they’re going to be very busy for the next week…

Since Holder left that out it is obvious that that is what he intends to do!!1!

599 Dr. Matt  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:56:42am

re: #594 kirkspencer

Well, except that SYG only applies if you kill the other person. If you don’t kill them then laws about assault, battery, and things like that apply.

I took a CHL course in Texas and the instructor pretty much said that if you choose to SYG, make sure you kill the person because of those exact reasons you listed. Dead men don’t talk…..

600 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:57:20am

re: #596 b.d.

What an ego! Now he is going to offer himself up to the country that ponies up the nicest digs?

He think he’s going to live like a rajah for the rest of his life on the royalties from the book and movie deals. Only Glenn will keep it all.

601 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:59:09am
602 Mattand  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 9:59:47am

re: #595 darthstar

The best victim is a dead victim. Easier to argue against them in court.

I had a neighbor I hadn’t seen in a while ask me what I thought about the Zimmerman trial. Told him straight out it was an open invitation to start lynching black people in FL.

He’s trying to go with the whole “The trial was just, but it’s a shame that the kid was dead”. Also added a little victim blaming, along the lines of Martin double-backed and confronted Zimmerman.

Sometimes, I think people who agree with the jury, but say “Too bad about that kid” know the murder was more racially motivated than they care to admit, but don’t want to acknowledge it.

603 Mattand  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:01:20am

re: #599 Dr. Matt

I took a CHL course in Texas and the instructor pretty much said that if you choose to SYG, make sure you kill the person because of those exact reasons you listed. Dead men don’t talk…..

Did express any sort of understanding that killing is to be avoided at all costs, or was he more of a “Bring it on” type?

604 OhNoZombies!  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:01:33am

re: #600 Vicious Babushka

He think he’s going to live like a rajah for the rest of his life on the royalties from the book and movie deals. Only Glenn will keep it all.

Yep. Greenwald is already making money off of this by pretending this is the movie ‘Enemy of the State.’

605 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:02:07am

re: #604 OhNoZombies!

Yep. Greenwald is already making money off of this by pretending this is the movie ‘Enemy of the State.’

That was a good movie. I love the fan theory that Hackman’s character is one and the same as his one in Coppolla’s The Conservation Conversation (cuz I’m a dyslexic idiot).

606 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:04:15am

re: #602 Mattand

I had a neighbor I hadn’t seen in a while ask me what I thought about the Zimmerman trial. Told him straight out it was an open invitation to start lynching black people in FL.

He’s trying to go with the whole “The trial was just, but it’s a shame that the kid was dead”. Also added a little victim blaming, along the lines of Martin double-backed and confronted Zimmerman.

Sometimes, I think people who agree with the jury, but say “Too bad about that kid” know the murder was more racially motivated than they care to admit, but don’t want to acknowledge it.

I think with a lot of people especially older white ones, there has been little empathy towards Treyvon. I honestly have no idea what I’d do if some stranger stalked me the way Zim stalked him that night. The oft repeated allegation that Treyvon was on top of Zimmerman doesn’t tell us anything about who threw the first blow. And I still have a hard time believing a seventeen year old kid would pick a fight with a stranger and one he did not know was armed. And I can believe Zimmeman starting the incident given his own past.

607 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:04:50am

re: #598 b.d.

That whole exchange was chuckle-worthy. : )

608 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:07:02am

Snowden and Greenwald think way too much of themselves. As I said when the story broke, it really pisses me off because we do need to have a conversation on this topic but Snowden by breaking the law and then palling up with tyrants who do much worse stuff than Obama does poisoned the well. And Greenwald does everytime he tells someone who disagrees with him or Snowden’s methods that they’re Obama apologists. It’s not htat simple you dweebs.

609 Lidane  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:07:34am

Dim Hoft haz a sad:

610 engineer cat  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:08:28am

ignatz kat ‏@ignatz_kat 27s

@InezFeltscher just to clear things up for you, inez, we “liberals” think that if a rapist attacks you, you have the right to shoot them.

611 Dr. Matt  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:09:37am

re: #603 Mattand

Did express any sort of understanding that killing is to be avoided at all costs, or was he more of a “Bring it on” type?

He sort of walked the line. He took his job seriously and wasn’t overtly obnoxious. I took a CWL course more recently in Florida and the instructor, an ex-cop from NYC, was a “bring it on” type. Shocking.

612 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:09:51am

re: #598 b.d.

Since Holder left that out it is obvious that that is what he intends to do!!1!

That or release the hounds on him as he egresses the plane on the tarmac.

613 abolitionist  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:10:06am

re: #605 HappyWarrior

That was a good movie. I love the fan theory that Hackman’s character is one and the same as his one in Coppolla’s The Conservation.

I think you meant The Conversation.

614 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:10:20am

re: #609 Lidane

Dim Hoft haz a sad:

[Embedded content]

Aww is DimJim going to do a MS Paint style photoshop now where Christie has devil horns because he dared to call out the lunatic that is Rand Paul.

615 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:10:43am

re: #613 abolitionist

I think you meant The Conversation.

Ha, thanks.

616 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:10:48am

re: #610 engineer cat

ignatz kat ‏@ignatz_kat 27s

@InezFeltscher just to clear things up for you, inez, we “liberals” think that if a rapist attacks you, you have the right to shoot them where the sun don’t shine,

FTFY

617 Lidane  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:11:53am

OUTRAGE!

618 Bulworth  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:13:11am

re: #610 engineer cat

Is the Engineer Cat on the Twitters?

619 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:15:14am

I usually stop reading if I read “liberals think {extreme hyperbole}. Really, if you want to know what I think as a liberal, get your information about what the left thinks from someone who doesn’t think liberalism is analogous with Nazism.

620 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:16:12am
622 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:19:13am

re: #601 Eclectic Cyborg

School demands parents pony up $300 to get a Chromebook for their kids

I feel so deprived. I was lucky to get a 3 ring binder and some pencils and pens all through HS. And we were given used books at no cost and used either the school library or public library for extra reading. I think there was a photo fee and maybe some outlay for extra-curricular activities, but nothing for my basic educational needs. I will put up my grammar and spelling skills against anyone in HS today, and I can figure out my change before a cashier can enter it into the computer/register (after fairly accurately estimating my grocery order cost without a calculator). OK, old lady rant over.

I suspect this is a suburban school district whose board members have unlimited incomes of their own for this kind of BS and approved it.

623 calochortus  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:20:04am

Shut off valve installed. Water no longer oozing out of places it shouldn’t ooze out of. The long term fix can be tackled next week.

624 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:21:23am

That’s a rather unfortunate typo.

625 Dr. Matt  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:21:36am

This video is awesome!

626 jaunte  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:23:22am

re: #624 Vicious Babushka

From a coolidge graduate, too.

627 Kragar  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:24:26am

re: #625 Dr. Matt

This video is awesome!

[Embedded content]

Are those damn bears having one of their forest raves again?

628 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:26:17am

re: #625 Dr. Matt

This video is awesome!

[Embedded content]

I’ll bet everyone was hoping for bear porn…

629 Dr. Matt  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:27:01am

re: #627 Kragar

Perhaps that’s a catnip….or bearnip tree. They are certainly giving that thing a lot of attention.

630 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:29:23am
631 Mateo Scrounge  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:30:08am

re: #624 Vicious Babushka

That’s a rather unfortunate typo.

[Embedded content]

Darn those sexually active teenagers!

632 Kragar  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:30:57am


Sorry Bryan. Being told you can’t demonize people you don’t like doesn’t mean Christians are being banned from a position.

633 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:31:44am

re: #620 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Congress Fiercely Divided Over Completely Blank Bill That Says And Does Nothing

How sad is it that for a moment I thought that was real?

634 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:34:04am

re: #632 Kragar

[Embedded content]


Sorry Bryan. Being told you can’t demonize people you don’t like doesn’t mean Christians are being banned from a position.

From his link (bolding from original):

We hear a lot about the positive things happening in that great bastion of conservatism known as Texas, but even there we are occasionally reminded that the disease of progressivism is present.

The latest example of the liberal precept that government is greater than the individual can be found in San Antonio, where city leaders believe true equality is just an ordinance away.

The city is looking to update its anti-discrimination policies by adding sexual orientation and gender identity as protected categories, and plans to punish those who speak out against homosexuality.

According to a draft of the revised policy, One News Now reports, no one who has spoken out against homosexuality or the transgender lifestyle can run for city council or be appointed to a city board.

Or, in other words, Christians need not apply.

So basically, they don’t want hateful douchebags.

Well, in a perfect world, that should qualify ANY Christian to be on the SA city council.

635 Kragar  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:36:13am

I can’t seem to find the part of the Bible where Jesus tells his followers to be a bunch of seething, hate mongering assholes.

636 Mateo Scrounge  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:38:05am

re: #632 Kragar

[Embedded content]


Sorry Bryan. Being told you can’t demonize people you don’t like doesn’t mean Christians are being banned from a position.

Indeed. Just as an example, any of the Christian members of my family would have no problem passing the test of not being a hatefilled bag of bile having spoken out for discrimination.

It’s been a while since I was in Sunday School, but I distinctly DO NOT remember Jesus saying the flaming assholes will inherit the Earth.

637 122 Year Old Obama  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:38:27am

re: #635 Kragar

You need to read Bryan Fischer’s Bible, the one with the page about it crudely glued into there.

638 jaunte  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:39:02am

re: #632 Kragar

“No person shall be appointed to a position if the City Council finds that such person has, prior to such proposed appointment, engaged in discrimination or demonstrated a bias, by word or deed, against any person, group or organization on the basis of race, color, religion, national origin, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, veteran status, age, or disability.”

It’s like bigots suddenly have to use a crummier water fountain.

639 calochortus  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:39:32am

re: #635 Kragar

I can’t seem to find the part of the Bible where Jesus tells his followers to be a bunch of seething, hate mongering assholes.

But there was something about motes in other people’s eyes…

640 OhNoZombies!  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:39:33am

I think I’m just gonna call Bryan F. and his ilk perverts.
They need to stop peeping in everyone else’s windows.

641 calochortus  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:40:38am

re: #640 OhNoZombies!

I think I’m just gonna call Bryan F. and his ilk perverts.
They need to stop peeping in everyone else’s windows.

They’re the reason I’m hesitant to trade my opaque bedroom curtains for “light filtering” ones.

642 Gus  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:40:51am

And Alan Grayson wants The Greenwald to testify before congress.

643 Mateo Scrounge  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:40:56am

I’m sure ol’ Bryin would be in favor of any ordinance that prohibited Muslims or atheists from such appointments.

Christian - it’s the new ‘same as everyone else’.

644 Kragar  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:43:40am

re: #637 122 Year Old Obama

You need to read Bryan Fischer’s Bible, the one with the page about it crudely glued into there.

That isn’t glue…

645 Internet Tough Guy  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:45:17am

re: #644 Kragar

He went to the cummy DC schools?

646 Kragar  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:46:20am

re: #645 Internet Tough Guy

He went to the cummy DC schools?

DC being Dominionist Christians

647 OhNoZombies!  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:46:59am

re: #644 Kragar

He’s spankin” it for Jeezus.
Ewww.

648 Mateo Scrounge  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:47:02am

re: #637 122 Year Old Obama

You need to read Bryan Fischer’s Bible, the one with the page about it crudely glued into there.

It’s probably covering the Sermon on the Mount, or maybe the bit about not praying loudly like the hypocrits, or perhaps the bit about throwing the first stone.

649 Gus  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:47:26am

NSA surveillance critics to testify before Congress

…Grayson said those testifying would include the American Civil Liberties Union as well as representatives from the right-leaning Cato Institute…

…The congressman added that Glenn Greenwald, the Guardian journalist who first revealed details of the surveillance programmes leaked by Snowden, had also been invited to testify via video-link from his base in Rio.

“Even today, most people in America are unaware of the fact the government is receiving a record of every call that they make, even to the local pizzeria,” Grayson said…

650 Mateo Scrounge  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:47:41am

re: #647 OhNoZombies!

He’s spankin” it for Jeezus.
Ewww.

Luckily, my imagination is failing me today.

651 122 Year Old Obama  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:47:56am

re: #644 Kragar

Stop, please. I want to sleep at night.
/

652 Mateo Scrounge  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:49:03am

re: #649 Gus

NSA surveillance critics to testify before Congress

“Even today, most people in America are unaware of the fact the government is receiving a record of every call that they make, even to the local pizzeria,” Grayson said…

But they don’t know what you’re ordering, right? It could be a salad, for all they know, and not the Heart Attack Lover’s Extra Cheesy Special.
//

653 jaunte  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:49:20am

re: #649 Gus

even to the local pizzeria

This is the end of freedom as we have known it.

654 Kragar  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:49:32am

re: #651 122 Year Old Obama

Stop, please. I want to sleep at night.
/

Sleep is for the weak.

655 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:49:56am

re: #647 OhNoZombies!

He’s spankin” it for Jeezus.
Ewww.

In San Diego!

656 Gus  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:49:57am

re: #652 Mateo Scourge

But they don’t know what you’re ordering, right? It could be a salad, for all they know, and not the Heart Attack Lover’s Extra Cheesy Special.
//

Yes, Grayson is a bit of a nutter.

657 Mateo Scrounge  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:50:09am

re: #653 jaunte

This is the end of freedom as we have known it.

Seriously, I expect some wingnut to link this to the ACA and propose that they’ll make pepperoni illegal.

658 jaunte  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:50:43am

The local pizzeria doesn’t even listen to my call.

659 Mateo Scrounge  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:51:16am

re: #658 jaunte

The local pizzeria doesn’t even listen to my call.

Let me guess - Godfathers?
//

660 Bulworth  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:51:32am

re: #649 Gus

Oh dear sweet babee jeebuz…

661 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:51:35am

LMAO at the last dozen or so comments.

And Bryan Fischer still doesn’t have a sense of hum-ah. His twitter account is his personal urinal where he gives everyone golden biblical showers of his own perverted mind.

662 jaunte  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:51:37am

“I ordered black olives on that, and the NSA can prove it!”

663 Kragar  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:52:46am

And the next RWNJ-LWNJ screachfest convergence will be….

FBI Reports Using Drones 10 Times On U.S. Soil

OMG DRONES!

Because using a drone is like Hitler, but monitoring with a plane or helicopter is fine.

664 Kragar  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:54:09am

The NSA is compiling a list of people who order pineapple on their pizzas.

665 engineer cat  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:54:15am

re: #618 Bulworth

Is the Engineer Cat on the Twitters?

i let ignatz kat operate the twitter machine - he’s smarterz than me am!

666 piratedan  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:54:58am

re: #664 Kragar

The NSA is compiling a list of people who order pineapple on their pizzas.

first they came for the anchovy lovers… and I said nothing…. //

667 Kragar  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:55:40am

Gun Advocacy Group Sends Zimmerman $12,000 To Buy Guns

On Tuesday, an Ohio-based gun advocacy group sent George Zimmerman, who fatally shot and killed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, a $12,150.37 check with which to purchase more guns.

668 Mateo Scrounge  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:56:03am

re: #661 Justanotherhuman

LMAO at the last dozen or so comments.

And Bryan Fischer still doesn’t have a sense of hum-ah. His twitter account is his personal urinal where he gives everyone golden biblical showers of his own perverted mind.

You know, I think one aspect of the internet is that you learn what people are actually thinking. This is good and bad. I met a number of people on a bowhunting forum whom I genuinely like, who are friendly, generous folks. They’ve invited me into their homes, shared many a late-night beer in a living room or by a campfire, taken me hunting, etc.

But once Obama was elected, I learned most of them were pretty blatant racists, and I kinda wish I could buy back my introduction to them.

669 Mateo Scrounge  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:56:51am

re: #664 Kragar

The NSA is compiling a list of people who order pineapple on their pizzas.

Top candidates for a Hellfire missile up the gazoo.

670 Gus  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:58:01am

re: #664 Kragar

The NSA is compiling a list of people who order pineapple on their pizzas.

Calling in a drone strike!

671 jaunte  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:58:25am

Atty. General Eric Holder’s letter to the Russian Minister of Justice concerning Edward Snowden:
cryptome.org

672 Kragar  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:58:32am

Filner to make a statement in about an hour.

673 Dr Lizardo, Drooling Jingoist  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:59:20am

re: #672 Kragar

Filner to make a statement in about an hour.

His resignation?

674 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 10:59:45am

re: #635 Kragar

I can’t seem to find the part of the Bible where Jesus tells his followers to be a bunch of seething, hate mongering assholes.

It’s in Yoda, Chapter 4, Verses 2-6:

Fear leads to anger.
Anger leads to hate.
Hate leads to suffering.
I sense much Suffering in You.
Make them suffer.

675 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 11:01:07am

re: #649 Gus

Yeah, and they probably had full unedited transcripts of Carlos Danger talking with Ms. Leopard and all the other twitterati. /

676 freetoken  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 11:01:39am

So, who recently said:

“I’m a Presbyterian, and pro-life and for traditional marriage,” he says.

??

677 bubba zanetti  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 11:01:41am

re: #667 Kragar

Gun Advocacy Group Sends Zimmerman $12,000 To Buy Guns

Geez, what a death cult (literally).

678 Kragar  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 11:01:47am

re: #673 Dr Lizardo

His resignation?

Sources suggest “taking some time off”

679 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 11:02:45am

Officer Pepperspray has a sad:

Cop Who Pepper-Sprayed Students At Occupy Protest Wants Worker’s Compensation For ‘Psychiatric Injury’

talkingpointsmemo.com

680 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 11:02:53am

re: #667 Kragar

Gun Advocacy Group Sends Zimmerman $12,000 To Buy Guns

DEAR GEORGE:
GOOD LUCK KILLING MOAR BLAH TEENAGERS!!11!!
LOVE,
TEH GUN-NUTZ

681 Kragar  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 11:02:59am

re: #676 freetoken

So, who recently said:

??

I would suggest its someone who loves traditional marriage so much, they’ve done it several times.

682 freetoken  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 11:03:44am

Yeah, the one and only, Donald Trump:

Trump Heads to Iowa, Plots a 2016 Run

[…]

In early August, Trump will travel to Ames, Iowa, the home of the Iowa Republican straw poll, where he’ll speak at an evangelical gathering hosted by Bob Vander Plaats, an influential power broker in the Iowa politics. Beyond Iowa, he has recently spoken to conservative groups in Michigan and Washington, D.C.

“I’m a Presbyterian, and pro-life and for traditional marriage,” he says. “Bob [Vander Plaats] is a good friend, and I’ve always had a connection with the evangelicals. I’m very friendly with many of the ministers and pastors, and I’ve had a great relationship with the group.”

[…]

683 Gus  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 11:04:00am
684 Backwoods_Sleuth  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 11:04:03am

re: #593 darthstar

[Snowden has] applied for temporary asylum in Russia and has said he’d like to visit the countries that offered him permanent asylum - Venezuela, Bolivia and Nicaragua.

[Embedded content]

Is that anything like the “Grand Tour” that wealthy people used to take in the old days?

685 piratedan  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 11:04:16am

re: #676 freetoken

So, who recently said:

??

someone who knows that Presby girls really put out and have this really kinky side to them….. //

686 piratedan  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 11:05:18am

re: #684 Backwoods_Sleuth

it’s part of the “betray your country, see the world!” travel package…..

687 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 11:05:19am
688 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 11:06:19am

DERP

689 Internet Tough Guy  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 11:06:54am

re: #649 Gus

from his base in Rio.

Greenwald’s base are belong to us.

690 Mateo Scrounge  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 11:07:20am

re: #687 Vicious Babushka

Now there’s something you don’t see every day.

691 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 11:07:31am

re: #667 Kragar

Gun Advocacy Group Sends Zimmerman $12,000 To Buy Guns

Oh sweet Jesus on a stick.

692 teresa  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 11:07:43am

re: #393 Vicious Babushka

Yes, I believe he is, he’s worked for CATO for a long time.

693 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 11:07:46am

re: #690 Mateo Scourge

Now there’s something you don’t see every day.

What? Teens pulling pranks? :P

694 Mateo Scrounge  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 11:08:25am

re: #688 Vicious Babushka

DERP

[Embedded content]

Where do they get the idea that Muslim salvation is determined by the acts of others? And what a waste of pork!

695 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 11:08:59am

re: #667 Kragar

Gun Advocacy Group Sends Zimmerman $12,000 To Buy Guns

I wonder if he’ll use it to buy one of these.

696 Mateo Scrounge  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 11:09:40am

re: #667 Kragar

Gun Advocacy Group Sends Zimmerman $12,000 To Buy Guns

You know, Zimmerman has a chance here to undo some of what he’s done to his reputation, by telling them to go to hell.

697 Kragar  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 11:10:23am

re: #683 Gus

[Embedded content]

As someone who served in the USMC for 8 and half years, the Corps needs to pull their head out of their ass.

698 calochortus  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 11:10:46am

re: #676 freetoken

So, who recently said:

??

I think infidelity is pretty traditional, though regrettable.

699 OhNoZombies!  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 11:11:26am

re: #683 Gus

Shorter:
It’s too hard to brainwash people into fighting for no reason, when they think for themselves.

700 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 11:13:03am

re: #696 Mateo Scourge

You know, Zimmerman has a chance here to undo some of what he’s done to his reputation, by telling them to go to hell.

Better yet take their money and give to a charity that helps victims and families of gun violence.

701 Mateo Scrounge  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 11:13:49am

re: #693 Eclectic Cyborg

What? Teens pulling pranks? :P

Nah, just that precise combination. Not something I’d have thought of.

702 Mattand  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 11:15:11am

re: #667 Kragar

Apparently, crime does pay.

703 Carlos Danger  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 11:18:55am

re: #699 OhNoZombies!

I wonder how a Marine Corps psychologist has to play by these rules. Creepy.

704 Mateo Scrounge  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 11:19:22am

re: #702 Mattand

Apparently, crime does pay.

But the hours aren’t great. And there’s no dental.
//

705 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 11:25:32am

re: #682 freetoken

Yeah, the one and only, Donald Trump:

Trump Heads to Iowa, Plots a 2016 Run

He’s so much in favor of traditional marriage that he’s had three of them (two prior divorces)

Four times the charm though; kinda like his bankruptcies.

706 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 11:29:42am

re: #647 OhNoZombies!

He’s spankin” it for Jeezus.
Ewww.

After a couple bong hits for Jebus?

707 Backwoods_Sleuth  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 11:29:43am

re: #687 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

That must be paged!!!

708 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Jul 26, 2013 11:32:58am

re: #649 Gus

NSA surveillance critics to testify before Congress

Better be careful, I collect every call that comes into the dealerships that run my software. I get it off the SMDR PBX record, parse the record and put the METADATA into a database. The sales staff then make notes on that call as to what was talked about for future reference with that customer.

I will be seeing you soon. //


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