The GOP’s Major Fail

Politics • Views: 6,683

The bizarre GOP talking point of the day is that there’s nothing wrong with wanting Barack Obama to fail.

This is so wrong-headed and self-defeating I don’t even know where to start.

Criticize him, show where he’s wrong, point out the flaws in his policies, even mock the guy for his reliance on a teleprompter. I’m no fan of Barack Obama, as a look through our archives will clearly demonstrate. I didn’t vote for him and I don’t like what he’s done so far.

But when you say you want him to FAIL, even if you try to qualify it by saying “if his policies hurt America I want him to fail,” you are alienating and losing the support of the vast middle, who do NOT want any American president to fail. When you insist on it, they hear you saying you want America to fail.

The FAIL here is on the GOP side, and they’re doubling down on it. Creationist governor Bobby Jindal came out last night defending this crap, and now Fred Thompson is doing it too.

I didn’t spend the last eight years denouncing the Democrats for wanting President Bush to fail, just to turn around and do the same thing to Barack Obama.

The Republican Party is in reactionary denial mode, refusing to look at the real problems that cost them the last two major elections. Unless the party can find a positive message and articulate it clearly, we’re going to have Democratic presidents for the foreseeable future.

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1257 comments
1 Harry Tuttle  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 6:50:04pm

But no supertanker?!?

2 Guanxi88  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 6:50:18pm

I got nothing.

3 Bloodnok  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 6:50:27pm

It needed to be said. Thanks, Charles.

4 Harry Tuttle  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 6:50:42pm

Yes it's very distressing.

One of the easiest and most positive things we can do is to challenge the
liberal left (and the floundering right) is to educate those around us.

Tell them why they are wrong. Ask them to support their beliefs when the counter with meaningless media sound bytes because that is really all they have and they cannot support these ideas when challenged.

There are those that will not be swayed, but there are also those that will when they honestly assess their beliefs. There are also those that will
otherwise have been silent and speak up when they see others doing so.

This country is mostly center right, smart, hard working and want to keep their money.

Wake them up!

5 Occasional Reader  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 6:51:41pm

Look... I want Obama to succeed in restoring economic growth. I do not want him to succeed at socializing the economic system. Simple.

6 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 6:52:02pm
The Republican Party is in reactionary denial mode, refusing to look at the real problems that cost them the last two major elections.

They have abandoned fiscal conservative policy and limited government. It's why I joined the party, and if they don't return to fiscal sanity, I will be politically homeless.

7 Wishing  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 6:52:55pm

re: #5 Occasional Reader

Look... I want Obama to succeed in restoring economic growth. I do not want him to succeed at socializing the economic system. Simple.

It is almost too late, eh?

8 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 6:53:00pm

And the stalker types will be heard to say "See, I told you Charles was a damn commie Obama supporter! He wants Obama to succeed at destroying this nation".

...or something like that...

9 Harry Tuttle  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 6:53:33pm

re: #5 Occasional Reader

Look... I want Obama to succeed in restoring economic growth. I do not want him to succeed at socializing the economic system. Simple.

Wanting him to do things that will succeed and wanting him to fail are two different things.

10 Wishing  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 6:53:43pm

Banks
Insurers
Investment houses
Real estate
etc.

11 DrNaughty  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 6:53:54pm

I fail to see what is wrong with saying that I want Obama to fail.

I prefer a nation based on freedom and free enterprise. Not the failures of fascism and Marxist economics.....

The government is not your mother...

The government is not your father....

12 Bloodnok  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 6:53:57pm

"Do you want 0bama to fail?" is a trap question. People in power in the GOP need to be careful what they say if they answer at all.

13 Occasional Reader  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 6:54:21pm

re: #9 Harry Tuttle

Wanting him to do things that will succeed and wanting him to fail are two different things.

I guess the answer to "do you want him to fail?" depends on what you think his agenda is.

14 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 6:54:31pm
The Republican Party is in reactionary denial mode, refusing to look at the real problems that cost them the last two major elections.

I would also add that they rapidly piling new problems on top of the old ones. Mainstreaming Alex Jones and Ron Paul is only making maters worse. The conspiracy theories and easily debunked talking points are out of control. I expected the right to go a little crazy but I wasn't expecting so much so fast.

15 JammieWearingFool  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 6:54:37pm

We want his socialist policies to fail. Nothing wrong with saying that.

The left wanted Bush to fail and they mostly succeeeded at making it happen.

I want America to succeed. I want the left to fail.

16 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 6:54:57pm

Anybody wanna bet on the first dramatic exit?

17 Occasional Reader  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 6:55:12pm

re: #12 Bloodnok

"Do you want 0bama to fail?" is a trap question. People in power in the GOP need to be careful what they say if they answer at all.

Like any good lawyer, I'd demand more specificity to the question.

18 Wishing  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 6:55:28pm

re: #12 Bloodnok

"Do you want 0bama to fail?" is a trap question. People in power in the GOP need to be careful what they say if they answer at all.

Agree Blodnok, it is a non-issue and the question needs to be restated, for example, As Republicans, we want the American dream to succeed with hard work and minimal interference from government.

19 Bloodnok  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 6:55:31pm

re: #16 Killgore Trout

Anybody wanna bet on the first dramatic exit?

"Circular firing squad!"
/

20 TheMatrix31  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 6:55:37pm

re: #12 Bloodnok

"Do you want 0bama to fail?" is a trap question. People in power in the GOP need to be careful what they say if they answer at all.

All anyone needs to say to that is "Do I want Barack 0bama to fail? Of course not. But I do know that the policies that him and his people are enacting are devastating and have never worked anywhere or at any time in world history. What I WANT him to do is enact policies that are known to work."

21 DrNaughty  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 6:55:38pm

re: #6 Sharmuta

They have abandoned fiscal conservative policy and limited government. It's why I joined the party, and if they don't return to fiscal sanity, I will be politically homeless.

I've been a registered libertarian since 1990.. Bush (41) turned me off of Republicanism....

22 Dr. Shalit  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 6:55:40pm

Charles -

Think we agree that RUSH stated his position on this clumsily to say the best.
May the REPUBLIC succeed no matter what. Let every President rise or fall on their own merits and actions. The REPUBLIC IS RESILIENT as are its people. It even survived "my guy" Former President James Earl Carter, III.

-S-

23 Attaboid  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 6:55:54pm

Citi should fail, AIG should fail, GM should fail...
Obama failing does not mean America fails.

24 Harry Tuttle  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 6:56:04pm

re: #13 Occasional Reader

I guess the answer to "do you want him to fail?" depends on what you think his agenda is.

I don't see that at all.

I want him to succeed at making this a more prosperous successful and protected country.

What he is trying to accomplish will certainly fail to do those things but that does not mean I want that to happen.

25 JammieWearingFool  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 6:56:40pm

The Democrats wanted us to lose a war. I want Obama's domestic policies to fail.

Huge difference.

26 DrNaughty  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 6:56:56pm

re: #12 Bloodnok

"Do you want 0bama to fail?" is a trap question. People in power in the GOP need to be careful what they say if they answer at all.

The best answer to that question is a simple "Yes".

If you want to stand for liberty and economic freedom, there is no other response....

27 Shug  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 6:57:05pm

His policies apparently want him to fail. Have you seen them?

28 Afrocity  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 6:57:08pm

Hannity just had the architect behind the "get Rush Limbaugh" plot on. Sean pointed out that liberals openly said they wanted Bush to fail. Why are there two sets of rules for liberals and conservatives.

29 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 6:57:13pm

I'm reposting this comment from the last thread because I feel it's relevant to say again:

Fiscal conservatives have been marginalized for long enough. It's time we stood up and said we're no longer willing to be held hostage by the religious passions of our so-called conservative fellows. They can stay if they'd like, but their religious passions belong at church, not in the party because their fervency is repelling too many people away, including other conservatives, and it's costing America by leading us to government power being in the hands of socialists. This has to stop, and stop now.

30 Occasional Reader  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 6:57:14pm

re: #16 Killgore Trout

Anybody wanna bet on the first dramatic exit?

"Go, then! And never darken my towels again!"

-Groucho Marx

31 cronus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 6:57:21pm

Republicans had a pretty good run for a time in the 1990s helping Bill Clinton not FAIL on issues like NAFTA and forcing him to not FAIL on welfare reform. Maybe we can turn our focus to laying out an issue agenda and messaging on substance instead of playing word games.

32 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 6:57:57pm

re: #20 TheMatrix31

Yeah, but you can't put that on a bumper sticker, and many people prefer to think in slogan-speak.

33 Taqyia2Me  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 6:58:03pm

All this being said, if only our president were not saying/acting/doing seemingly everything he can to destroy capitalism/ the USA, maybe the reactions to him would not be so severe.

34 Harry Tuttle  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 6:58:06pm

re: #28 Afrocity

Hannity just had the architect behind the "get Rush Limbaugh" plot on. Sean pointed out that liberals openly said they wanted Bush to fail. Why are there two sets of rules for liberals and conservatives.

Liberals have positions.

Conservatives have principles.

35 jcm  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 6:58:24pm

Wanting Obama to "fail" has been a losing proposition.

The problem is this is a 30 second sound bite world, with the MFMSM doing the editing. So how we use language is very important, especially not using language that can be spun into a distraction.

I want the United States of American to succeed.
Part of that success is that President of the United States also succeeds.

It is apparent that the Current President of the United States shows no sign he wants the United States to Succeed. What he wants is to remake this country in his image.

That said I want Obama's agenda to fail. There isn't another word. His agenda will remake this country into an Oligarchy.

The success of this country, and the success of Obama's agenda are not compatible.

36 David Simon  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 6:58:40pm

I don't need to "hope" for failure: social security, socialized medicine, confiscatory taxation, negotiating from a position of weakness...all have proven to be disastrous policies.

Stick to facts and leave the idiotic hyperbole to the leftists.

37 Dar ul Harbarian  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 6:58:45pm

The problem with the GOP, and the Democrats during Bush's administration for that matter, is that they need to be FOR something instead of AGAINST something. I don't mind them wanting BHO to fail, but that should be a minor, fringe point, secondary, or tertiary to the main issues they want to promote.

38 kansas  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 6:58:50pm

re: #31 cronus

Republicans had a pretty good run for a time in the 1990s helping Bill Clinton not FAIL on issues like NAFTA and forcing him to not FAIL on welfare reform. Maybe we can turn our focus to laying out an issue agenda and messaging on substance instead of playing word games.



That's gonna require winning back the House and Senate in 2010.

39 IslandLibertarian  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 6:59:03pm

How 'bout:
Obama's policies will make America fail.
or:
Obama Lied!
Tax Cuts Died!

........but I want his policies to fail too............

40 Harry Tuttle  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 6:59:26pm

re: #35 jcm

Wanting Obama to "fail" has been a losing proposition.

The problem is this is a 30 second sound bite world, with the MFMSM doing the editing. So how we use language is very important, especially not using language that can be spun into a distraction.

I want the United States of American to succeed.
Part of that success is that President of the United States also succeeds.

It is apparent that the Current President of the United States shows no sign he wants the United States to Succeed. What he wants is to remake this country in his image.

That said I want Obama's agenda to fail. There isn't another word. His agenda will remake this country into an Oligarchy.

The success of this country, and the success of Obama's agenda are not compatible.

Spot on.

41 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 6:59:53pm

re: #28 Afrocity

Hannity just had the architect behind the "get Rush Limbaugh" plot on. Sean pointed out that liberals openly said they wanted Bush to fail. Why are there two sets of rules for liberals and conservatives.

We're all aware of the double standard, but that doesn't make it right for us to behave like those with whom we disagree. In this respect, I see the same argument that we here employed against the neo-fascists in europe: I am not interested in becoming that which I oppose just to defeat it. If I have to become a flaming loon to defeat flaming loons, then count me out.

42 pink freud  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 6:59:56pm

Ok, this instead:

I want Soros to fail.

43 DrNaughty  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:00:00pm

re: #27 Shug

His policies apparently want him to fail. Have you seen them?

If Obama's regime was a movie, we'd be watching "Heaven's Gate".....

44 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:00:08pm

I pray every day for him to get a bolt of sanity, and change his direction to one that will save the country instead of ruining it.
Because if he keeps doing what he does, the country is going to take quite a while to recover, if it can.

45 Lee Coller  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:00:26pm

What is wrong with these idiots. Jindal I understand, but Thompson has been around long enough he should know better.

Don't give the Dems talking points. Don't they get it.

46 David Simon  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:00:51pm

re: #28 Afrocity

Hannity just had the architect behind the "get Rush Limbaugh" plot on. Sean pointed out that liberals openly said they wanted Bush to fail. Why are there two sets of rules for liberals and conservatives.

Because we're better than they are.

47 samjohnson  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:00:58pm

I agree. The Republicans had their shot at the economy and were dismal failures. Obama's economic team is impressive and may yet orchestrate a recovery. What scares me about Obama is his foreign policy utopian naivete. If Summers, Orszag and the rest of his centrist economic team can restore faith in capitalism I, for one, will applaud. What will it matter though, if the Islamo-Nazis prevail?

48 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:01:01pm
49 Ringo the Gringo  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:01:01pm

I like to see American succeed in spite of President Obama's policies.

50 Bloodnok  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:01:02pm

re: #26 DrNaughty

The best answer to that question is a simple "Yes".

If you want to stand for liberty and economic freedom, there is no other response....

A good answer would be "I would like the American people as well as the President to listen to OUR ideas which, if followed would lead to prosperity and security."

If only we had that plan. (Not us as individuals, but as a party).

51 ErislDysnomia  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:01:26pm

Can I say I want his pushing of $50 billion to be spent on this crap to fail?

Why Are Healthcare Information Manufacturers Free of All Liability When Their Products Can Result in Medical Errors?

52 Aviator  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:01:31pm

OT - Now being reported the pilot of the F-22 that crashed died in the mishap. He was a LM pilot.

53 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:01:44pm

re: #45 Lee Coller

What is wrong with these idiots. Jindal I understand, but Thompson has been around long enough he should know better.

Don't give the Dems talking points. Don't they get it.

I never liked Fred because he sold out the House Republicans on impeachment. He's not the conservative everyone thinks he is.

54 Bloodnok  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:01:48pm

re: #48 Iron Fist

It isn't even that I want his domestic policies to fail. I want him to fail to enact them. I want our side to win the political debate.

Perfect.

55 DrNaughty  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:01:49pm

re: #45 Lee Coller

What is wrong with these idiots. Jindal I understand, but Thompson has been around long enough he should know better.

Don't give the Dems talking points. Don't they get it.

Talking to a leftist is like trying to talk a deer out of staring into your headlights....

56 hazzyday  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:02:04pm

From SpaceJesus in the previous thread. This is a good reply to Republicans.

re: #586 SpaceJesus

57 Afrocity  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:02:23pm

re: #35 jcm

Wanting Obama to "fail" has been a losing proposition.

The problem is this is a 30 second sound bite world, with the MFMSM doing the editing. So how we use language is very important, especially not using language that can be spun into a distraction.

I want the United States of American to succeed.
Part of that success is that President of the United States also succeeds.

It is apparent that the Current President of the United States shows no sign he wants the United States to Succeed. What he wants is to remake this country in his image.

That said I want Obama's agenda to fail. There isn't another word. His agenda will remake this country into an Oligarchy.

The success of this country, and the success of Obama's agenda are not compatible.

Why does it matter? I mean about the term "fail". What conservative would want him to succeed? That should be stating the obvious or a given.

58 cronus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:03:13pm

re: #38 kansas

That's gonna require winning back the House and Senate in 2010.

Not necessarily. You can be quite impactful as a minority party particularly in the Senate. Look back to 1992. Senate Repubs aligned with centrist Dems to kill Clinton's attempt at his own stimulus bill and defeated government run health care. Don't get me wrong, I really hope we do regain control. But it's not a deal killer if we don't.

59 Right mind left  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:03:13pm

I think what Obama is doing, his strategy and approach are deeply disturbing and jeopardizing to the health of this nation. A lot is affected by that. How is it reconciled? Is it wrong to say STOP HIM from the wrong path?

60 freetoken  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:03:25pm

re: #25 JammieWearingFool

For one, at least the energy policies, I want Pres. Obama's policies to succeed, as he is the first Executive to seem like he is open to truly changing (dare I use that word) some long standing domestic policies wrt energy (all of the sources.)

Just because I think some policies are bad, doesn't mean that all of them are.

That the GOP looks at an entire presidency and and entire set of policies and wishes en masse failure is a demonstration of the abrogation of responsibilities to govern.

It is a public form of pouting.

61 kansas  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:03:26pm
I agree. The Republicans had their shot at the economy and were dismal failures. Obama's economic team is impressive and may yet orchestrate a recovery. What scares me about Obama is his foreign policy utopian naivete. If Summers, Orszag and the rest of his centrist economic team can restore faith in capitalism I, for one, will applaud. What will it matter though, if the Islamo-Nazis prevail?

Dismal failures? Things were'nt looking too bad until after the Dems took the House and Senate. Plus the Dems pitched a big bitch about Bush's deficits. How does tripling them every year for 10 years make that better?

62 Occasional Reader  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:03:31pm

re: #52 Aviator

OT - Now being reported the pilot of the F-22 that crashed died in the mishap. He was a LM pilot.

That is terrible news.

Our thoughts with his family.

63 mfarmer1  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:04:05pm

Who would have thought that only two months ago these opportunities to redefine and re-energize the GOP would present themselves courtesy of the bumbling Obama administration? All wasted. Laugh all you want, but maybe this time around a viable conservative third party is starting to emerge that can actually win elections.

Grassroots, netroots, nutroots, weedroots, I don't care how it gets going or what the movement is called as long as it promotes Constitutional government as its core. Oh, and someone without a clay figurine of a T-Rex getting pelted with stones by the Knights Templar on his or her office desk would be a nice touch too.

64 unclassifiable  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:04:30pm

I think Obama and the Democrats policies will fail.

What good will it do us to be in the midst of the failure and look back and say, "well I wished him well"?

65 Wendya  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:04:36pm

I want Obama's policies to fail because the alternative is not acceptable.

66 ErislDysnomia  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:05:16pm

re: #41 Sharmuta

We're all aware of the double standard, but that doesn't make it right for us to behave like those with whom we disagree. In this respect, I see the same argument that we here employed against the neo-fascists in europe: I am not interested in becoming that which I oppose just to defeat it. If I have to become a flaming loon to defeat flaming loons, then count me out.

Just remember, political correctness is a tool invented by leftists to handicap anyone opposing them.

67 looking closely  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:05:57pm

I want Obama's agenda to fail. . .or more specifically, I DON'T want the USA to fail because of idiotic fiscal and foreign policy.

That simple.

As to Obama personally, I don't much care. I'd love to see the guy be a rousing success and great for the country, I just don't see it happening.

And as to the Republicans, Charles is right. The electorate wants a positive message, not "we want the POTUS to fail". That's just defeatist.

Tell us what you want to succeed, not what you want to fail!

68 Dr. Shalit  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:06:20pm

re: #28 Afrocity

Hannity just had the architect behind the "get Rush Limbaugh" plot on. Sean pointed out that liberals openly said they wanted Bush to fail. Why are there two sets of rules for liberals and conservatives.

Afrocity -

Because there are - reason being that, at least recently, Conservatives have run on a platform of our best aspirations and hopes as a nation, LIFE, LIBERTY and PROPERTY/THE PURSUIT of HAPPINESS. When those of "ours" fall short, it s obvious. Contemporary Liberalism makes NO SUCH CLAIMS - which is why after probably too many years, I left it, because it left me.

-S-

69 Aviator  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:06:30pm

re: #60 freetoken

For one, at least the energy policies, I want Pres. Obama's policies to succeed, as he is the first Executive to seem like he is open to truly changing (dare I use that word) some long standing domestic policies wrt energy (all of the sources.)

Just because I think some policies are bad, doesn't mean that all of them are.

That the GOP looks at an entire presidency and and entire set of policies and wishes en masse failure is a demonstration of the abrogation of responsibilities to govern.

It is a public form of pouting.

His energy policy, like any other policy of his I can think of is ridiculous.

70 Wendya  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:06:40pm

re: #60 freetoken

That the GOP looks at an entire presidency and and entire set of policies and wishes en masse failure is a demonstration of the abrogation of responsibilities to govern.

It is a public form of pouting.

So, governing is supporting and even cheerleading policies that will harm this nation?

Really?

You know, the GOP has offered alternatives. It's just that some are so overcome with Obamaadoration they aren't listening.

71 SteveC  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:06:43pm

re: #47 samjohnson

I agree. The Republicans had their shot at the economy and were dismal failures.

And we dropped the ball on September 12, 2001. Senator Clinton and others came to the White House and GWB asked "What do you need?" and they handed him a laundry list. Without hesitating, Bush said "You've got it."

The national situation (and the local conditions in NYC) almost certainly required massive expenditures, but at that moment, the GOP discovered that you could spend billions of dollars in a heartbeat.

72 freetoken  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:06:45pm

re: #63 mfarmer1

The problem is, so far, what appears to be emerging is Alex Jones.

73 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:06:50pm

re: #66 ErislDysnomia

Just remember, political correctness is a tool invented by leftists to handicap anyone opposing them.

This isn't about political correctness- this is about outright lunacy on the part of far too many on the right.

74 snowcrash  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:06:57pm

Dems control the House. Dems have the Senate. Dems have the Oval Office. They will soon have the Supremes too. We are playing word games. It is about so much more than Obama.

75 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:07:24pm
76 hazzyday  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:07:25pm

My idea would be to push Obama and the Media to have some class like GWB.

77 gatorbait  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:07:34pm

I want the USA to succeed. I could care less about the success of an elected official unless it promoted success of the country. The argument over whether some politician wants Obama to succeed or fail is sophomoric.

78 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:07:39pm

Charles,

Good for you having the balls to make this a post.

I repeat, respect the office if not the man.

I repeat, if some one wants the president to fail, that only means that they want America to suffer for their own political gain. It would be the definition of unpatriotic.

79 Joe in Australia  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:07:46pm

This is an easy trap for political parties to fall into, but it's a bad sign. It's like a girl wishing that her prettier, smarter classmate would break a leg so that she could go out with the football captain. It shows that the Republican Party has no confidence in its own virtues. Furthermore, the Presidency isn't the immediate concern of the Republicans - they need to get people elected to Congress and the State legislatures.

I wish the Republican party's attitude was more like this: our nation is facing many challenges. Whether we like it or not, Barack Obama is our President for the next four years. I hope that our country does well, but I also hope that we can find someone better than him to lead it.

80 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:07:49pm

re: #37 Dar ul Harbarian

The problem with the GOP, and the Democrats during Bush's administration for that matter, is that they need to be FOR something instead of AGAINST something. I don't mind them wanting BHO to fail, but that should be a minor, fringe point, secondary, or tertiary to the main issues they want to promote.

The problem with that is the second the GOP starts promoting concrete alternatives, the left will attack both the proposals and their promoters as "unfair", "mean", "favoring the rich" and all that crap. The politicians in the GOP prefer to sling mud rather than do their jobs: less personal risk.

81 DrNaughty  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:07:58pm

re: #49 Ringo the Gringo

I like to see American succeed in spite of President Obama's policies.

For the first time in my adult life, I actually am afraid our nation will not survive.... Even under Clinton I never had this fear. Within the past six months we have gone from a nation based on freedom and free enterprise into one heading for bankruptcy, and possible civil war, as well as the increased likelihood of nuclear conflict.

We were once the shining beacon of liberty. A place where people wanted to live and enjoy opportunities not available to them elsewhere...

Now, we are on the road straight to hell.... and this is only two months into Obama's regime.

82 reine.de.tout  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:08:07pm

re: #35 jcm

Wanting Obama to "fail" has been a losing proposition.

The problem is this is a 30 second sound bite world, with the MFMSM doing the editing. So how we use language is very important, especially not using language that can be spun into a distraction.

I want the United States of American to succeed.
Part of that success is that President of the United States also succeeds.

It is apparent that the Current President of the United States shows no sign he wants the United States to Succeed. What he wants is to remake this country in his image.

That said I want Obama's agenda to fail. There isn't another word. His agenda will remake this country into an Oligarchy.

The success of this country, and the success of Obama's agenda are not compatible.

Well, you just said exactly what I was trying to write. Upding, and repeating for me.

83 jcm  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:08:12pm

re: #57 Afrocity

Why does it matter? I mean about the term "fail". What conservative would want him to succeed? That should be stating the obvious or a given.

It matters in public perception, and in the media perception is reality. Like it or not most people get their info via the MSM, they will spin such things to make the (R)s and conservatives to be obstructionist. That Obama is opposed because he is Obama.

The argument should be:
Obama's policy on X will fail, because of this reason, and this is what should be done that we know works.

84 iLikeCandy  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:08:36pm

I typed this at the tail end of the last thread, while this one started and ran away, so . . .

Stop stop STOP. Since when is it that wanting Obama to fail means that you want America to fail? My friend, we are a nation of laws, not men. Equating Obama with the nation is what the Democrats misguidedly do in their cultish thralldom.

Obama has awful schemes on American and I want him to fail at them: I want him to be strong-armed into accepting a conservative agenda, or at least into compromising with it. I want him to fail on socializing health care, punishing industry and consumers with climate control taxes, and handing us over to our enemies abroad. He comes into office with big ideas about how he's going to "heal" us and "change" us and transform the world. I want the bastard to fail at all this and cave to the Paul Ryans and Michele Bachmanns. I want David Petraeus to thrash him into breaking his promises to get us out of Iraq by some date on the calendar, and I want him to fail on his dumbass pledge to meet personally, without preconditions, with the worst tyrants on the planet. I want him busted out of office by 2012 at the latest with an EPIC FAIL sign taped to his back while Democrats wail and gnash their teeth and America wipes its brow and says "Phew! Close call."

85 erevu  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:08:46pm

What the hell is wrong with the Republican Party representatives, that they can't correctly frame the response to this issue?

Liberal "Gotcha" Reporter: "Do you hope that Obama fails?"

Proper response:

The question is too vague. To the extent that his failure means harm to America, no one in their right mind wants him to fail. That includes Rush. But Rush, and conservatives in general, are of the opinion that the policies Obama seeks to set in place will lead to the destruction of America as we know it. I am not talking about something apocaliptic here, but simply that we will cease to be America and become another Western Europe. That being the case, conservatives hope that Americans reject his policies, the result of which will obviously be his failure to successfully implement them. It's exactly the same kind of hope that most on the Left have had for the past eight years in regards to Bush. Now you answer me something. Why is this comment being focused on so much when coming from Rush, yet totally ignored when it came from many on the Left in the exact same fashion over the last eight years?

86 Shug  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:08:50pm

Cap and Trade
Universal healthcare
Constitutional rights for captured taliban fighters
tax increases for my family and millions of others
goodbye mortgage interest deduction
Billions for ACORN
War on Terror now called something PC


[deleted]

87 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:08:59pm

The left wanted Bush to fail.
We shouldn't be like them.

I want 0bama to realize how misguided he is, and turn around his policies; tell Pelosi she is screwed up, and support capitalism.
However, I think I'm more likely to find a unicorn in my back yard.

More realistically, I hope the country doesn't get too messed up before we can elect new leaders. And I hope there will actually be a party worth voting for, because I don't see one.

88 Sosigado  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:09:00pm

I guess we're delving into semantics here, to some degree. Personally, I will be pleased at the utter failure of any policy that Barack Obama endorses that advances his statist/socialist agenda. If that equates to perceived personal failure on his part, than so be it.

89 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:09:00pm

And yes, I know I'm going to piss off a lot of people by departing from the talking points. But this is wrong.

90 Harry Tuttle  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:09:26pm

re: #76 hazzyday

My idea would be to push Obama and the Media to have some class like GWB.

We lost that chance in Nov 08.

91 Zimriel  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:09:35pm

I would pay good money to watch Charles Johnson debate Jeff Goldstein on this issue.

92 Dr. Shalit  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:09:38pm

re: #52 Aviator

OT - Now being reported the pilot of the F-22 that crashed died in the mishap. He was a LM pilot.

Aviator -

G-d rest his soul. Condolences to his family.

-S-

93 Loren42  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:09:39pm

No! No! I believe you are very wrong, Charles.

Our president's policies are toxic to this country's prosperity and its future, so I believe.

I want him to fail in his attempt to implement those policies because I don't want our country to fail.

I do not give a rat's ass about the GOP or how the GOP is seen when I make this statement.

It is a matter of principle on which I stand and it is more important to be principled than to sell ones convictions for the sake of some political party.

94 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:09:40pm

Another legacy of the prior administration.

Heh.

95 planes86  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:09:49pm

I'm sorry, but I know what Obama wants to do to this country and I have to say I do want him to fail...

96 Last Mohican  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:09:51pm

It depends on what "wanting him to fail" means.

Option 1: "I want him to fail to achieve his goal of tripling the national debt. I want some other budget to be approved. I want him to fail to impose his budget on the country." I have no problem with that. If that's what we mean, then I want him to fail too.

Option 2: "With a Democratic congress in power, we can't stop him. His budget is going to be enacted. Well then, I hope that his budget is a total failure, in that the consequences are really horrible. I hope we have double-digit inflation and interest rates through the roof, and nobody can afford anything anymore. Because if a catastrophe like that happens, then we can get a Republican back in the White House, and we can start to fix things." If that's what we mean by wanting him to fail, then I agree, it's totally boneheaded.

97 Salem  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:10:23pm

Can't go along with that, sorry. Obomber's "success" will put the hurt on all Americans who believe in Capitalism. He is a scoundrel, plain and simple. The fact that he has the nuclear codes should make it hard for sane people to sleep at night. He's Ayer's disciple and it should be clear what that means.

98 Sosigado  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:10:25pm

pimf 'then so be it'

99 kansas  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:10:41pm

re: #75 buzzsawmonkey

Thanks for that. Excellent read.

100 David Simon  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:10:43pm

re: #65 Wendya

I want Obama's policies to fail because the alternative is not acceptable.

Think about what you wrote. Success is not acceptable?

Obama's policies will fail because they've been proven time and again not to work. Huge difference.

101 cronus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:11:00pm

This is a such an amateur display of political message. Where's the discipline? You mix affirmation with criticism. You say you plan to help the president succeed while doing what you feel is best for the country and abiding by the constitution. Blowhards get to say whatever they want. But I expect elected officials and national party leaders to handle this like pros.

102 Zimriel  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:11:02pm

Currently I believe that Jeff Goldstein has the better end of this argument. I'm not as smart as he is, which is why I want that debate.

I want Goldstein to fail, you could say.

103 jcm  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:11:09pm

re: #89 Charles

And yes, I know I'm going to piss off a lot of people by departing from the talking points. But this is wrong.

The loyal opposition needs to appear constructionist, not obstructionist.

104 Shug  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:11:10pm

When you vote against somebody's piece of legislation, aren't you in fact wanting them to fail?

105 Harry Tuttle  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:11:21pm

re: #89 Charles

And yes, I know I'm going to piss off a lot of people by departing from the talking points. But this is wrong.

(Perhaps a supertanker thread then to soothe the masses?)

106 Ringo the Gringo  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:11:22pm

It's not politically wise to hope for Obama to fail....He will fail.... Just let it happen, and offer an alternative.

Republicans are out of power; be classy.

107 JammieWearingFool  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:11:38pm

re: #60 freetoken

For one, at least the energy policies, I want Pres. Obama's policies to succeed, as he is the first Executive to seem like he is open to truly changing (dare I use that word) some long standing domestic policies wrt energy (all of the sources.)

Just because I think some policies are bad, doesn't mean that all of them are.

That the GOP looks at an entire presidency and and entire set of policies and wishes en masse failure is a demonstration of the abrogation of responsibilities to govern.

It is a public form of pouting.

Thta's not true. They have tried to work with him but he said "fuck you, I won".

You can't work with people who want to destroy you.

Maybe I'm missing something here. The left wants to annihilate us. I see no point in being subservient to them.

108 Right mind left  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:11:44pm

re: #89 Charles

And yes, I know I'm going to piss off a lot of people by departing from the talking points. But this is wrong.

Is the "THIS" the GOP folks saying "I want Obama to fail" without any quantification, or some other "this"?

109 Wendya  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:11:46pm

re: #75 buzzsawmonkey

All of these are good points. But by saying them in short form, "We want him to fail," instead of clearly enunciating what they want him to fail at and why, they are failing to make their argument and its basis clear. That is why the "jury" of the American public is not buying their argument.

There are plenty of leaders in the GOP who have enunciated quite clearly why they believe Obama's policies and Democrat legislation is harmful. But if you sit on your ass in front of the television waiting to have that delivered to you, you're going to have a long wait.

110 mfarmer1  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:11:47pm

re: #72 freetoken

The problem is, so far, what appears to be emerging is Alex Jones.

I have absolutely no idea who that is. Based on your post here, I take it that's a good thing? I'll go look around a bit unless it gets too scary.

111 Wendya  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:12:20pm

re: #84 iLikeCandy


Stop stop STOP. Since when is it that wanting Obama to fail means that you want America to fail? My friend, we are a nation of laws, not men. Equating Obama with the nation is what the Democrats misguidedly do in their cultish thralldom.


A-Freaking-Men!

112 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:12:42pm

re: #93 Loren42

I do not give a rat's ass about the GOP or how the GOP is seen when I make this statement.

Then you damn the party most able to stop his policies because you don't take the time to think about how your words taint the electorate against them.

113 Shug  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:12:45pm

re: #110 mfarmer1

I have absolutely no idea who that is. Based on your post here, I take it that's a good thing? I'll go look around a bit unless it gets too scary.


make sure you keep a barf bag handy if you are going to go off and learn about alex jones

114 Wendya  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:13:20pm

re: #89 Charles

And yes, I know I'm going to piss off a lot of people by departing from the talking points. But this is wrong.

Actually, you're not departing from the talking points.

115 pink freud  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:13:32pm

What we need is the Alinksy alternative: Rules for Rationals.

116 2cpus4me  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:14:05pm

Well, in case you didn't notice 'wanting him to fail' got the other team elected. It works. I do hope Obama fails. Epic fail. That boy has the arrogance of Patton and the mind of a socialist. Not good.

117 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:14:18pm

re: #84 iLikeCandy

Stop stop STOP. Since when is it that wanting Obama to fail means that you want America to fail? My friend, we are a nation of laws, not men. Equating Obama with the nation is what the Democrats misguidedly do in their cultish thralldom.

Barack Obama was elected by the American people. You may not like it, but that's a fact.

118 jcm  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:14:27pm

re: #100 David Simon

Think about what you wrote. Success is not acceptable?

Obama's policies will fail because they've been proven time and again not to work. Huge difference.

I think that's important.

We don't say we want Obama's to fail, or his policies to fail.

We say we know from history that the are guaranteed to fail, and here's what works.

119 Wendya  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:14:36pm

re: #100 David Simon

Think about what you wrote. Success is not acceptable?

Obama's policies will fail because they've been proven time and again not to work. Huge difference.

The success of his agenda is not acceptable. Did I not make that clear?

120 Harry Tuttle  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:14:41pm

re: #115 pink freud

What we need is the Alinksy alternative: Rules for Rationals.

The United States Constitution

121 JammieWearingFool  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:14:46pm

Here's how the left is reaching out to Republicans.

By completely lying and misrepresenting what Rush Limbaugh said.

Yeah, let's reach out to them.

Doesn't matter what we say. They're going to lie and misrepresent anything the GOP says.

122 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:14:52pm

re: #89 Charles

And yes, I know I'm going to piss off a lot of people by departing from the talking points. But this is wrong.

"Sanity is not statistical." - 1984

You are doing good work Charles, keep it up.

123 Dr. Shalit  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:14:56pm

re: #89 Charles

And yes, I know I'm going to piss off a lot of people by departing from the talking points. But this is wrong.

Charles -

No "Pee & Vinegar" here. My hope/prayer is that Pres. Obama emulates the best points of FDR, Ronald Reagan, and YES, George W. Bush, without the deficiencies. The REPUBLIC would benefit from that.

-S-

124 iLikeCandy  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:14:56pm

re: #37 Dar ul Harbarian

The problem with the GOP, and the Democrats during Bush's administration for that matter, is that they need to be FOR something instead of AGAINST something.

snip

Straight out of the mouth of the Left. Shall we stop, please?

125 kansas  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:15:15pm

re: #93 Loren42

No! No! I believe you are very wrong, Charles.

Our president's policies are toxic to this country's prosperity and its future, so I believe.

I want him to fail in his attempt to implement those policies because I don't want our country to fail.

I do not give a rat's ass about the GOP or how the GOP is seen when I make this statement.

It is a matter of principle on which I stand and it is more important to be principled than to sell ones convictions for the sake of some political party.

Then what's wrong with saying you think the policies are toxic to the country's prosperity and future, and you do not want the country to fail and hope the policies are not enacted? Once it's obvious that saying you want him to fail is being used against you, why insist on repeating it?

126 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:15:30pm
127 Wendya  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:15:36pm

re: #118 jcm

We say we know from history that the are guaranteed to fail, and here's what works.

I've heard at least one GOP Senator and a couple of Representatives say that on record but there not getting a lot of face time or credit for doing so.

128 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:15:38pm

re: #94 Dar ul Harb

The Obama Googlebomb doesn't actually work anymore.

129 freetoken  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:15:39pm

re: #89 Charles

But this is wrong.

Question for the Lizards:

Is it wrong because:
(1) It is a public relations disaster in-waiting;
(2) It is a break-down of the comity that elected national-level leaders usually show each other;
(3) It ignores that at least one, or perhaps more, of Obama's policies might be fine (or at least no worse than the alternative.)
(4) It undermines the personal application of e pluribus unum;
(5) Some combination of the above?

130 Zimriel  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:16:08pm

re: #117 Charles

Barack Obama was elected by the American people. You may not like it, but that's a fact.

re: #122 Dark_Falcon

"Sanity is not statistical." - 1984

Heh.

131 claire  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:16:13pm

Define Fail.

Define success.

The discussion is basically meaningless if both sides aren't defining the words the same way in the first place.

132 Shug  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:16:22pm

It comes down to tact and appearing gracious.


GOP
Be passionate about your positions and your beliefs. Oppose the president in a vigorous but gentlemanly way. Don't appear to be a sore loser. Americans hate a sore loser.

133 Dr. Shalit  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:16:24pm

re: #104 Shug

When you vote against somebody's piece of legislation, aren't you in fact wanting them to fail?

Shug -

Hate the SIN as you are ready to LOVE the Sinner. One does NOT preclude the other.

-S-

134 Dar ul Harbarian  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:16:46pm

re: #89 Charles

And yes, I know I'm going to piss off a lot of people by departing from the talking points. But this is wrong.

That's what I like about you Charles. You are not beholden to groupthink.

135 Zimriel  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:16:54pm

re: #130 Zimriel

Heh.

(Yes, I know, Dark Falcon didn't intend to contradict Charles's statement about the sanctity of election results.)

136 Wishing  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:16:59pm

re: #121 JammieWearingFool

Here's how the left is reaching out to Republicans.

By completely lying and misrepresenting what Rush Limbaugh said.

Yeah, let's reach out to them.

Doesn't matter what we say. They're going to lie and misrepresent anything the GOP says.

But we have to put on our big boy pants and realize that the MSM is NOT our friend, and take advantage of the modes we have of reaching the American public and using those and to hell with the MSM.

137 iLikeCandy  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:17:02pm

re: #85 erevu

What the hell is wrong with the Republican Party representatives, that they can't correctly frame the response to this issue?

Liberal "Gotcha" Reporter: "Do you hope that Obama fails?"

Proper response:

The question is too vague. To the extent that his failure means harm to America, no one in their right mind wants him to fail. That includes Rush. But Rush, and conservatives in general, are of the opinion that the policies Obama seeks to set in place will lead to the destruction of America as we know it. I am not talking about something apocaliptic here, but simply that we will cease to be America and become another Western Europe. That being the case, conservatives hope that Americans reject his policies, the result of which will obviously be his failure to successfully implement them. It's exactly the same kind of hope that most on the Left have had for the past eight years in regards to Bush. Now you answer me something. Why is this comment being focused on so much when coming from Rush, yet totally ignored when it came from many on the Left in the exact same fashion over the last eight years?

They've said this. Rush has said it, he's shouted it, he's practically wept it.

What is with this GOP (or conservative, or whatever it is) self-hatred? It is exactly like the left's attitude towards America.

138 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:17:10pm

re: #101 cronus

This is a such an amateur display of political message. Where's the discipline? You mix affirmation with criticism. You say you plan to help the president succeed while doing what you feel is best for the country and abiding by the constitution. Blowhards get to say whatever they want. But I expect elected officials and national party leaders to handle this like pros.

Instead of divisive rhetoric, we need a clear alternative agenda to show the American people. Even if the agenda gets nowhere legislatively, we can continue to point to our proposals and let the American people decide. In 2 years, they may hear enough to decide to give us back the power on the Hill, and that could lead to taking back the WH in 2012.

But this silly war of words solves absolutely nothing. Actions speak louder than words- give us a real agenda, and act upon it.

139 finallyhere  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:17:20pm

Obama's only goal is to destroy the USA whether he realizes that or not. If he succeeds in implementing his policies that it will mean the end if America as we know it. Of course I want him to fail. To want his policies somehow magically do the opposite to what they are aimed to do, namely to restore American economic growth is the same as to want to win a lottery without even buying a ticket.

Whether it is a good politics to say openly that we want Obama to fail in implementing his destructive policies is another story.

140 pink freud  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:17:22pm

re: #120 Harry Tuttle

As the "knowledge-seeking" personality, Rationals are strategic in orientation, striving to gain as much information as they can while applying that information into long-term plans and tactics. They are characterized by a tough-minded personal style, reflecting their tendency to strive for power or understanding. They are often strong-willed, ambitious, intelligent, and self-determined. Subjective thoughts and emotion have no place in the decision making process of a Rational. Driven to excel, they work hard to achieve their goals, and they do well where they can take control or work independently in a task.

141 Aviator  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:17:28pm

I want America to succeed and to the extent Obama's success and the country's success is congruent I wish him the best. However I do not want him the succeed in putting in place his many agenda items that I believe will result in damage to the country.

142 jcm  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:17:33pm

re: #127 Wendya

I've heard at least one GOP Senator and a couple of Representatives say that on record but there not getting a lot of face time or credit for doing so.

It doesn't fit the MFMSM template of obstructionist (R)s.

143 Dar ul Harbarian  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:18:14pm

re: #124 iLikeCandy

Straight out of the mouth of the Left. Shall we stop, please?

No. It is straight out of my mouth. A radical centrist.

144 Randall Gross  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:18:28pm

re: #89 Charles

And yes, I know I'm going to piss off a lot of people by departing from the talking points. But this is wrong.

What gets me is that it started with Limbaugh. For years he's talked about how the dems will say or do anything, and how they were bent on destroying the country to gain power. Now he's wishing failure -- he's now the image of everything he railed against. There's really only a couple of reasons that he could be doing this for he's not stupid. He's either trying to stir up controversy to get more attention and thus listeners, or he's trying to hold on to the petulant children in his demographic because Alex Jones might grab them otherwise.

145 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:18:41pm

re: #121 JammieWearingFool

No- we need to get moderates and independents to come to our side. Hard core leftists will never leave the ranks of the democrats, and they can keep them. But we cannot win elections without the middle, and that's just a stone cold fact.

146 Wendya  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:18:55pm

re: #129 freetoken

Question for the Lizards:

Is it wrong because:
(1) It is a public relations disaster in-waiting;
(

The media is going to frame the republicans in one of two ways:


In lockstep with Obama as his supporters or as his "rabid" opposition.

There is no middle ground for them.

147 kansas  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:18:55pm

I never heard even Pelosi or Reid say they wanted Bush to fail or say they wanted to lose the war. They said Bush was a failure, and the war was lost. Big difference in my opinion.

148 iLikeCandy  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:19:35pm

re: #125 kansas

Then what's wrong with saying you think the policies are toxic to the country's prosperity and future, and you do not want the country to fail and hope the policies are not enacted? Once it's obvious that saying you want him to fail is being used against you, why insist on repeating it?

Only because it's repeatedly being asked. As for differentiating between the success of the policies and the success of the country, that's what Jindal, Thompson, and Rush have done. Damn it, is anybody listening to anything but CNN and MSNBC?

149 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:20:05pm

re: #103 jcm

The loyal opposition needs to appear constructionist, not obstructionist.


Better than appear constuctionist - how about we actually be constructionist. So far, our loyal opposition has done little more than whine and throw bones to the more medieval elements of the party.

How about we make strong cogent arguments for real fiscal discipline - while doing a mea culpa for our own pork? How about we stop alienating every educated American by opposing science? How about we make strong cogent arguments about the Irani threat rather than looking for the talking point du jour?

Ohhh here is a wild one... How about we show leadership skills rather than trying to score sound bites?

150 Ringo the Gringo  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:20:17pm

re: #81 DrNaughty

Our best bet is to take the high road. We need to warn, to voice our concerns, but if we want to regain power we have to provide a positive alternative.

151 Dr. Shalit  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:20:36pm

re: #141 Aviator

I want America to succeed and to the extent Obama's success and the country's success is congruent I wish him the best. However I do not want him the succeed in putting in place his many agenda items that I believe will result in damage to the country.

Aviator -

YOU have stated in words the Great Truth - "Equality" and "Congruency"/"Identicalness" are NOT the same. That is all.

-S-

152 reine.de.tout  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:21:00pm

re: #140 pink freud

As the "knowledge-seeking" personality, Rationals are strategic in orientation, striving to gain as much information as they can while applying that information into long-term plans and tactics. They are characterized by a tough-minded personal style, reflecting their tendency to strive for power or understanding. They are often strong-willed, ambitious, intelligent, and self-determined. Subjective thoughts and emotion have no place in the decision making process of a Rational. Driven to excel, they work hard to achieve their goals, and they do well where they can take control or work independently in a task.

Hm. I clicked your link. My myers-briggs comes out INTJ every time. "Rationals" correspond with "NT" types according to the article.

153 WindHorse  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:21:10pm

I want "all of my wildest dreams to come true".... but, I have this sneaking hunch Obama ain't Pedro.....

/long sandy blonde hair off

154 Wishing  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:21:12pm

re: #149 LudwigVanQuixote

How about we make strong cogent arguments for real fiscal discipline - while doing a mea culpa for our own pork? How about we stop alienating every educated American by opposing science? How about we make strong cogent arguments about the Irani threat rather than looking for the talking point du jour?

Ohhh here is a wild one... How about we show leadership skills rather than trying to score sound bites?

There's a winner!

155 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:21:15pm

I'm not interested in school yard name calling- it does nothing to fix our problems. What I would like to see is a real agenda we can repeatedly point to for the American public, along the lines of the Contract With America. "This is our plan, and we're sticking to it, and if we don't vote us out of office". How refreshing would that be?

156 iLikeCandy  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:21:21pm

Sorry, I've got to bug out. This discussion is very interesting to me, but it's moving too fast. My views are being expressed by others here, so I don't think it hurts for me to drop out.

157 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:21:24pm

re: #87 Kosh's Shadow

The left wanted Bush to fail.
We shouldn't be like them.

I want 0bama to realize how misguided he is, and turn around his policies; tell Pelosi she is screwed up, and support capitalism.
However, I think I'm more likely to find a unicorn in my back yard.

More realistically, I hope the country doesn't get too messed up before we can elect new leaders. And I hope there will actually be a party worth voting for, because I don't see one.


Well said.

158 Dan G.  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:21:46pm

I'm still waiting for the Republican leadership to explicitly spell out their current values, trying to be gray enough in order (in their own demented reasoning) to capture more of the electorate just isn't going to cut it. THE reason that the GOP was revitalized during the Clinton admin was the explicit statement of values that occurred with the "Contract with America". I think that the only reason that the GOP isn't coming right out and stating their core values is because they know that they'd repel the better portion of voters. I do not think that the majority of leaders in the GOP are 1) fiscally "conservative", 2) strict Constitutionalists, or 3) pro-individual rights; otherwise, we'd see principled action and not just soundbites. For a principled stand, albeit one I strongly disagreed with, see how the GOP reacted to the Schiavo affair... they essentially SHUT DOWN THE GOVERNMENT. Could you imagine if they reacted the same way to any of the spendulus thefts!?

159 SpartanWoman  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:21:47pm

re: #141 Aviator

I want America to succeed and to the extent Obama's success and the country's success is congruent I wish him the best. However I do not want him the succeed in putting in place his many agenda items that I believe will result in damage to the country.

Precisely! I want Obama to succeed if it means America succeeds by normal standards of defense, liberty and prosperity. If we succeed and Obama is pres, good. I want his stupid policies to fail...and so far that's about ALL of them. The spending is psychotic, the appointments are largely absurd, and he is becoming an embarrassment. I want his to get his act together and support freedom and prosperity, not the crap he's supporting now.

160 Shug  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:21:48pm

re: #156 iLikeCandy

Sorry, I've got to bug out. This discussion is very interesting to me, but it's moving too fast. My views are being expressed by others here, so I don't think it hurts for me to drop out.

get your roomate

161 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:21:54pm

re: #139 finallyhere

Obama's only goal is to destroy the USA whether he realizes that or not. If he succeeds in implementing his policies that it will mean the end if America as we know it. Of course I want him to fail. To want his policies somehow magically do the opposite to what they are aimed to do, namely to restore American economic growth is the same as to want to win a lottery without even buying a ticket.

Whether it is a good politics to say openly that we want Obama to fail in implementing his destructive policies is another story.

Obama's goal is to be worshipped as a deity. He is basically clueless about what it takes to administer the country.

162 PatrioticNaturalizedAmerican  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:21:58pm

I think the GOP's biggest problem is RINO denial.

163 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:21:59pm

re: #149 LudwigVanQuixote

Better than appear constuctionist - how about we actually be constructionist. So far, our loyal opposition has done little more than whine and throw bones to the more medieval elements of the party.

How about we make strong cogent arguments for real fiscal discipline - while doing a mea culpa for our own pork? How about we stop alienating every educated American by opposing science? How about we make strong cogent arguments about the Irani threat rather than looking for the talking point du jour?

Ohhh here is a wild one... How about we show leadership skills rather than trying to score sound bites?

+1776!

164 dicentra  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:22:04pm

Charles, I love your guts, but you're totally wrong on this.

Statements such as "I want him to fail [to drive the country further left]" do not shock the middle, they shock you. Embarrass you, even. But when you're embarrassed, that implies an audience. And that audience is the mocking Left, not the undecided middle.

The dems have not measured their words for the last 40 years, and especially not the last eight. Sure scared away the voters, didn't it?

If you accept that it's wrong to say something that someone else can twist, then you've accepted the perverted rules of discourse that the Left has established. The effect being that you've gone ahead and stifled your own free speech.

Yeah, people use these kinds of phrases to paint us conservatives as meanie mean people. But is that characterization true? NO! So don't stand for it. The GOP has been turning itself inside out to NOT conform to the Left's stereotypes -- by being all nicey-nice, by wishing an avowed Socialist good luck, by not identifying and loudly condemning the shenanigans that they get away with all the time.

This isn't a case of good manners vs. poor manners; this is about power-hungry fanatics who will steal your very words to club you over the head with them. You don't owe them one iota of courtesy. You do owe the Truth your will to fight for it.

Re-read this post by Jeff Goldstein and stop worrying about how the mushy middle will react. Tell the truth, tell it boldly, and challenge the wicked people who want to silence you by distorting your message.

You might as well go ahead and answer yes or no to "have you stopped beating your wife?"

Stop playing their game. Stop accepting their rules. Fight back. Fight back hard!

165 HelloDare  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:22:17pm

Yuck.

Clinton/Lewinsky Scandal To Become HBO Movie
Just when you thought it was safe to channel surf, it turns out HBO is making a movie out of the Bill Clinton/Monica Lewinsky scandal of yesteryear. The title? The Special Relationship. Special, indeed. The casting is just plain odd. Dennis Quaid is Wild Bill. Hillary Clinton? Julianne Moore. Apparently, the film focuses less on Slick Willy's hijinks and more on the president's relationship with Tony Blair (played by Michael Sheen), which devolved purportedly due to the sex scandal. Peter Morgan, who scored with Frost/Nixon, wrote the screenplay and is set to direct. Supposedly, Quaid beat out some actual A-listers for the role—Russell Crowe, Philip Seymour Hoffman, Alec Baldwin, Tim Robbins. I wonder if he truly eclipsed them or if the actors were steered away from taking the part of a man tasked with running the country who couldn't keep his hands off the help. Who'll play Lewinsky? Mia Kirshner? Megan Fox? Jessica Simpson? Nope. "Morgan has decided to use only archive footage of her culled from TV news bulletins and video of her closed-door testimony to Congress." Well, maybe the real Lewinsky will sell a few handbags out of it.

166 kansas  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:22:28pm

re: #156 iLikeCandy

Sorry, I've got to bug out. This discussion is very interesting to me, but it's moving too fast. My views are being expressed by others here, so I don't think it hurts for me to drop out.

The Lizards never seem to miss me when I leave.

167 Bloodnok  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:22:34pm

If the Republican party were more viable at this point in time and had constructive ideas on how to get us out of the financial mess we're in I would not worry about how bad things would have to be in order for people to vote Republican in 2010 and 2012. Our ideas would see us through.

But absent of that and in the current state of the electorate the Republicans need to improve their platform, their message and the quality of their messengers in order to prove a legitimate opponent in the next two elections. Are enough people willing to vote for a rudderless Republican party simply because "they're not Democrats"? Not yet IMO.

0bama does NOT have to fail for the GOP to make gains or win the Presidency.

168 Wishing  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:22:40pm

re: #156 iLikeCandy

Sorry, I've got to bug out. This discussion is very interesting to me, but it's moving too fast. My views are being expressed by others here, so I don't think it hurts for me to drop out.

Have a good evening! and Sleep well!

169 cronus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:22:43pm

re: #138 Sharmuta

Instead of divisive rhetoric, we need a clear alternative agenda to show the American people. Even if the agenda gets nowhere legislatively, we can continue to point to our proposals and let the American people decide. In 2 years, they may hear enough to decide to give us back the power on the Hill, and that could lead to taking back the WH in 2012.

But this silly war of words solves absolutely nothing. Actions speak louder than words- give us a real agenda, and act upon it.

This is why, while the lack of discipline frustrates me, I don't despair. Obama will next have to turn to issues like health care and entitlement reform. Areas that we are much stronger on substantively and rhetorically. But we need to get out in front now and frame them before the debate starts. Not after he's already set the agenda.

170 reine.de.tout  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:22:48pm

re: #155 Sharmuta

I'm not interested in school yard name calling- it does nothing to fix our problems. What I would like to see is a real agenda we can repeatedly point to for the American public, along the lines of the Contract With America. "This is our plan, and we're sticking to it, and if we don't vote us out of office". How refreshing would that be?

I agree 100%.
I would like to see a pro-active approach, alternatives proposed along with reasons and rationale for why the alternatives are better.
We do not see that.

171 Wendya  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:22:56pm

re: #142 jcm

It doesn't fit the MFMSM template of obstructionist (R)s.

Of course not so I don't quite get the "let's hold hands" strategy when the media is going to frame the republicans as a bunch of Roman Centurions. It really doesn't matter what the republicans say because it will either be cut to pieces and given out in negative soundbites or it will be ignored.

172 pink freud  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:23:00pm

re: #152 reine.de.tout

INTJ also. :-)

173 reine.de.tout  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:23:21pm

re: #172 pink freud

INTJ also. :-)

funny!
sending an email.

174 David Simon  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:23:26pm

re: #119 Wendya

The success of his agenda is not acceptable. Did I not make that clear?

Crystal clear. See jcm's post just before yours.

175 Randall Gross  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:23:31pm

For the record: I want Obama to fail politically, but to succeed for the country.

176 Dar ul Harbarian  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:23:46pm

re: #165 HelloDare

Yuck.

Clinton/Lewinsky Scandal To Become HBO Movie
Just when you thought it was safe to channel surf, it turns out HBO is making a movie out of the Bill ......

I just want to see the money shot.

177 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:24:10pm

re: #164 dicentra

Stop playing their game. Stop accepting their rules. Fight back. Fight back hard!

With what? Empty, divisive rhetoric?! How about some real leadership and an agenda? Can I get that?

178 freetoken  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:24:13pm

Follow up to my last post before I run to they gym: I am not sure how "wrong" it is for the GOP leaders to be piling on this bandwagon, in a moral sense of "wrong", but it is foolish IMO.

What it accomplishes is to set in the minds of many that the GOP wants America to fail (whether or not that was the original intention.)

For one simple fact (which Charles already illuminated): President Obama was elected by the people of the United States, in a solid and undisputed manner.

From the postings of many here, it is clear than many Lizards despise their fellow Americans. People can sense being despised.

For those of you pushing the "I want Obama to fail" meme, you will get what you want - increased separation from your fellow citizens, and a party built upon bitterness.

179 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:24:16pm

re: #163 Sharmuta

+1776!


Thank you.

180 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:24:31pm
181 Dr. Shalit  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:24:42pm

re: #155 Sharmuta

I'm not interested in school yard name calling- it does nothing to fix our problems. What I would like to see is a real agenda we can repeatedly point to for the American public, along the lines of the Contract With America. "This is our plan, and we're sticking to it, and if we don't vote us out of office". How refreshing would that be?

Sharmuta -

VERRRY REFRESHING to say the least.

-S-

182 iLikeCandy  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:24:48pm

re: #117 Charles

Barack Obama was elected by the American people. You may not like it, but that's a fact.

I don't see what this has to do with the point at hand, especially since it's arguable that the American people, weakened by generations of leftist poison, elected him at the urging of those who hate America.

/not bugging out after all

183 kansas  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:24:49pm

re: #165 HelloDare

Yuck.

Clinton/Lewinsky Scandal To Become HBO Movie
Just when you thought it was safe to channel surf, it turns out HBO is making a movie out of the Bill Clinton/Monica Lewinsky scandal of yesteryear. The title? The Special Relationship. Special, indeed. The casting is just plain odd. Dennis Quaid is Wild Bill. Hillary Clinton? Julianne Moore. Apparently, the film focuses less on Slick Willy's hijinks and more on the president's relationship with Tony Blair (played by Michael Sheen), which devolved purportedly due to the sex scandal. Peter Morgan, who scored with Frost/Nixon, wrote the screenplay and is set to direct. Supposedly, Quaid beat out some actual A-listers for the role—Russell Crowe, Philip Seymour Hoffman, Alec Baldwin, Tim Robbins. I wonder if he truly eclipsed them or if the actors were steered away from taking the part of a man tasked with running the country who couldn't keep his hands off the help. Who'll play Lewinsky? Mia Kirshner? Megan Fox? Jessica Simpson? Nope. "Morgan has decided to use only archive footage of her culled from TV news bulletins and video of her closed-door testimony to Congress." Well, maybe the real Lewinsky will sell a few handbags out of it.

Who will play the blue dress?

184 dicentra  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:24:50pm

re: #89 Charles

I don't give a rip about talking points, and I don't give a rip about whether I'm cheesed off or not. Only the truth matters.

Being "nice" doesn't help us at all. We've got to stop bringing water pistols to a nuclear war.

185 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:24:54pm
186 hazzyday  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:25:00pm

While I think Pres Obama is ripe for failure. And I think democracy will have to be righted once he leaves office. I think the rule of nature is that success comes from positives not from negatives. We would decide for ourselves what is best and also realizing our own imperfections. Then we would point out to the Obama administration where they are wrong. Then negotiate out the compromise. The common human failing is as Ploome suggests to pull the beam from ones own eye first.

Does Rush annotate the corruption in high office that leads us to failed capitalism and failed government? The confidence of the average voter an average consumer is more important to the fabric of the country then leaders without integrity. Which Pres Obama is without.

187 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:25:22pm

re: #152 reine.de.tout

Hm. I clicked your link. My myers-briggs comes out INTJ every time. "Rationals" correspond with "NT" types according to the article.


ENTP, you will be very hard pressed to find a professional scientist who isn't a raging NT of some stripe.

188 freetoken  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:25:22pm

re: #141 Aviator

Probably the best way to state your case.

189 SpartanWoman  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:25:33pm

re: #144 Thanos

He sees Obama's policies and deceit, he wants these to fail. The man lied about earmarks, lobbyists, transparency in government, etc. I want the deceit to end, the earmarks yanked out, and this runaway spending to cease. I certainly agree with Limbaugh on that. I do not want Obama to get away with that and it makes me wonder what Obama's definition of "success" is?

190 iLikeCandy  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:25:44pm

re: #160 Shug

get your roomate

lol

I'm baaaaack!

191 fish  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:25:44pm

It really comes down to what the definition of a failed presidency is. By most accounts a President is deemed a success or failure based on how much of their agenda is made into law. I want Obama's current agenda to fail. I want him to fail at enacting policies that I know will cripple this nation in the near and long term. I want him to fail at convincing the vast center of the country that his ideas are correct. By those standards I want him to fail.

If he changes his dirrection and starts pushing for policies that will do more good than harm, I wish him success and will gladly credit him for the success and prosperity that will follow.

He is our President for at least the next four years. If he fails now, he will have time to correct his ways and thinking before the harm is irreversible.

Of course, the left would read a statement like this as: "Right winger calls for destruction of the economy to prove a point"

192 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:25:54pm

re: #154 Wishing

How about we make strong cogent arguments for real fiscal discipline - while doing a mea culpa for our own pork? How about we stop alienating every educated American by opposing science? How about we make strong cogent arguments about the Irani threat rather than looking for the talking point du jour?

Ohhh here is a wild one... How about we show leadership skills rather than trying to score sound bites?

There's a winner!

Thanks!

193 Zimriel  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:25:54pm

re: #144 Thanos

What gets me is that it started with Limbaugh. For years he's talked about how the dems will say or do anything, and how they were bent on destroying the country to gain power. Now he's wishing failure -- he's now the image of everything he railed against. There's really only a couple of reasons that he could be doing this for he's not stupid. He's either trying to stir up controversy to get more attention and thus listeners, or he's trying to hold on to the petulant children in his demographic because Alex Jones might grab them otherwise.

Did you listen to his show that day? Or read the transcript?

I recommended his posts before, but now I'll up the ante: nobody should be allowed to comment on this topic before reading Jeff Goldstein's take. I'm afraid you will have to read the whole thing, taking notes, and coming up with reasons he's wrong. You may also consider going through ProteinWisdom this month, since 5 March I think.

194 mfarmer1  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:26:07pm

re: #113 Shug

make sure you keep a barf bag handy if you are going to go off and learn about alex jones

Gotta run now, but in my extensive 2 minute review, he seems like a cross between Michael Savage and that guy in charge of the remaining survivors of a nuclear war from the Twilight Zone episode, "The Old Man in the Cave?"

195 JammieWearingFool  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:26:12pm

If Obama wants us to be victorious in the ‘Overseas Contingency Operation' then by all means I want him to succeed. I want him to succeed in promoting American values across the globe.

I want him to succeed in helping our economy recover. I want him to succeed in reducing crime, teen pregnancy, the murder rate, etc. Any number of areas.

Problem is, I don't think he wants to succeed at any of that.

Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised and he'll prove me wrong.

I think he wants to succeed at destroying our economy, empoweing ACORN, promoting socialism and destroying the GOP.

So no, I don't want him to succeed at those things.

196 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:26:17pm

re: #177 Sharmuta

With what? Empty, divisive rhetoric?! How about some real leadership and an agenda? Can I get that?

Amen to the sister!

197 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:26:24pm
198 Gearhead  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:26:25pm

You said it, Charles. Wanting Barack to fail is just stupid (although I do enjoying it when he makes an ass of himself - but that is something different, IMHO).

FWIW, I'm on my local county committee and I can tell you first-hand that me and a number of my fellow GOPers openly stated a willingness to 'give him a chance' and expressed a hope that he has a successful term. I'm not endorsing him. I didn't vote for him, don't particularly like him, and am concerned about the US moving closer to a command economy, but a failed U.S. president weakens the ENTIRE country, not just the president's party.

Jindal and Thompson aren't fit to lead if they think hoping for Obama's failure helps them or the US in the long term. I personally think Obama's spend-and-nationalize spree is great fodder for GOP victories in 2010, but the GOP has to get its shit together in the meantime.

Does Mercedes Benz lead by hoping that BMW fails? No. They do their best to think big about how they can bring innovation and quality to their products. If the GOP wants to lead again, it has to think in those terms.

/rant off

199 Dr. Shalit  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:26:28pm

re: #183 kansas

Who will play the blue dress?

KS -

Linda Tripp?

-S-

200 iLikeCandy  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:26:28pm

re: #166 kansas

The Lizards never seem to miss me when I leave.

What's the matter with those who are not kansas?

201 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:26:39pm

re: #115 pink freud

What we need is the Alinksy alternative: Rules for Rationals.

Here are a few:

1. Ruthless Aggression: The left seeks our destruction, thus they are unworthy of respect. We should watch our words, but we should still attack leftist policies without hesitation. Our ideas are better, and we need to say that and why they are better, early and often.

2. Don't Freeze Up: The left likes to try to shock conservatives or paralyze them by turning our rules against us. Don't fall for it. Talk about how the left has no respect for anything other that which furthers their cause. Attack them for a moral tactics, call them liars, make the public see them as they are.

3. Counter Protest: Don't let the left dominate the streets. Get your own protesters out there and make your message heard. Do not provoke or start violence, but don't let yourself be pushed around either.

202 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:26:40pm

re: #184 dicentra

How about bringing a viable alternative agenda instead of empty rhetoric?

203 Mich-again  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:26:43pm
I didn’t spend the last eight years denouncing the Democrats for wanting President Bush to fail, just to turn around and do the same thing to Barack Obama.

Agreed. This is the stupidest political tack I have seen either party take.

204 Wendya  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:26:46pm

re: #149 LudwigVanQuixote

Ohhh here is a wild one... How about we show leadership skills rather than trying to score sound bites?

I would settle for an informed electorate who didn't get the sum of their political knowledge from CNN or ABC. Several republicans have given rather impassioned speeches from the floor of the house and senate regarding the budget and other legislation. Speeches that offer alternatives and explain why the democrat proposed legislation is harmful. Have you seen them or seen them anywhere other than youtube? You are allowing the media to frame the republican party based on what they want you to believe.

205 Ringo the Gringo  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:27:00pm

re: #162 PatrioticNaturalizedAmerican

I think the GOP's biggest problem is RINO denial.

Please elaborate.

206 iLikeCandy  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:27:02pm

re: #168 Wishing

Have a good evening! and Sleep well!

Thanks for the thoughts. Now I'll be up all night!

207 Shug  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:27:05pm

I'm already very very tired of Jindal.

208 Dar ul Harbarian  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:27:10pm

re: #197 buzzsawmonkey

More important, who got the merchandise licensing contract for the promotional Presidential knee pads?

What Pizza company gets the product placement?

209 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:27:12pm

My Smurf Hut for a viable agenda from the GOP!

210 dalejrfanfreak  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:27:19pm

I think Obama does need to fail, maybe then people will actually pay attention to the experience of the candidates running for president. Is nobody else sick of hearing Obama supporters and the media saying "this isn't what I voted for" or "Obama seems to be in over his head"? This guy wants to take over banks/corporations and he can't even get his treasury department fully staffed! On top of that, the media would have to change their ways if they wanted to remain relevant because they are giving him a free ride. I'm sorry Charles but politics has come to this, the opposite party is the enemy no matter what and Democrats/Liberals played dirty for 8 years and now it's our turn. Either you fight the good fight or you sit there silently and let them tell you how to live. I refuse to sit idly by when they deserve zero respect.

211 Biff  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:27:37pm

So Charles, all Germans in 1933 should have wished that Hitler succeed?

I think we can wish that America succeeds. But if you believe that Obama is a danger to America, why would you wish him success?

212 dicentra  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:27:42pm

re: #177 Sharmuta

With what? Empty, divisive rhetoric?! How about some real leadership and an agenda? Can I get that?

The rhetoric is not empty--it speaks volumes. And the fact that something is divisive is irrelevant. When you speak the Truth, it cuts like a sword, and people will come down on one side or the other. This country was constructed with the express purpose of preventing Unity. Unity usually leads to mischief.

And NO, you cannot get real leadership and an agenda from Rush or Fred. Neither is an elected official.

213 jcm  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:27:50pm

re: #149 LudwigVanQuixote

Better than appear constuctionist - how about we actually be constructionist. So far, our loyal opposition has done little more than whine and throw bones to the more medieval elements of the party.

How about we make strong cogent arguments for real fiscal discipline - while doing a mea culpa for our own pork? How about we stop alienating every educated American by opposing science? How about we make strong cogent arguments about the Irani threat rather than looking for the talking point du jour?

Ohhh here is a wild one... How about we show leadership skills rather than trying to score sound bites?

DING!

I would love to hear some of that!

214 NavyGunner  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:28:29pm

I may be in reactionary denial mode, refusing to look at the real problems that cost Republicans the last two major elections but I do want Obama to fail. I have no desire to see him bankrupt the nation or enact what I consider to be his socialist agenda.

215 mac6443  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:28:31pm

Hmmmm...
Fail as a person. Nah I don't think so.
Ahh, I recall. I believe Rush has clarified this comment more than once. He is not in favor of the Presidents policies thus he would like to see him (policies) fail.
If you don't want to his agenda fail then I suspect you are in favor of this massive 3.5 trillion budget and you don't care if our country go completely broke for the foreseeable future and possibly beyond.
It's and old story but you seem not to care to research exactly what was said.

Can you get it?
I doubt it from what I'm reading here.
Regards,
Mac

216 David Simon  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:28:38pm

re: #127 Wendya

I've heard at least one GOP Senator and a couple of Representatives say that on record but there not getting a lot of face time or credit for doing so.

Sen. Gregg and Rep. Ryan are getting a lot of face time, and they're articulating the problems with Obama's fiscal policies quite well. The only problem is that they have a record of voting one way when their party is in power, and another when they're not.

217 TheMatrix31  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:28:41pm

re: #198 Gearhead

FWIW, I'm on my local county committee and I can tell you first-hand that me and a number of my fellow GOPers openly stated a willingness to 'give him a chance' and expressed a hope that he has a successful term.

What has he done to warrant giving him a chance? He didn't do anything in his past life, he didn't do anything during his campaign, and all he's done while being in office was confirm our worst suspicions. He doesn't deserve a chance, because all he did was try to convince people and all his supporters thought that he'd flip the switch overnight.

218 Bloodnok  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:28:55pm

The spin on "wanting 0bama to fail" in the media is "Republicans want the economy to get worse and for YOU to lose your job". It's as simple as that. We may know which individual tasks we want him to fail at, or we may only want legislation to fail, but it doesn't come across like that. It's a trap.

219 IslandLibertarian  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:29:12pm

Ok, I'm leaning towards
"The Failed Policies of the Past 3 Months."
/but I still want "0" to fail in destroying America...........

220 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:29:30pm

re: #75 buzzsawmonkey

I have found, in the course of lawyering, that the worst thing one can do when making an argument is to go from Point A to Point D without enunciating and clearly laying out Points B and C, even--perhaps especially--when the line from Point A to Point D is crystal clear.

You lose the argument by leaving out the connecting dots.

The Republicans are doing that because by saying that they "want Obama to fail," they are saying that they do not want him to savage the Constitution, cripple defense, give the government an inappropriate hand in the economy, etc.

All of these are good points. But by saying them in short form, "We want him to fail," instead of clearly enunciating what they want him to fail at and why, they are failing to make their argument and its basis clear. That is why the "jury" of the American public is not buying their argument.

Had the Republicans been properly educating the public for the last five, ten, fifteen, twenty years, their short-form argument might work. But they haven't, and they are compounding that dereliction now by making the short-form argument to people whom they have not prepared to understand it.


I agree with you... I really do. You are talking about the good folks. However, there is a good sized set that is simply and only thinking about "revenge" in the next election too.

221 Wishing  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:29:30pm

re: #206 iLikeCandy

Thanks for the thoughts. Now I'll be up all night!

Well LGF is here and is way better than counting sheepies!

222 kansas  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:29:40pm

Liberal "Gotcha" Reporter: "Do you hope that Obama fails?"

No, we hope that his policies of tripling the deficit reduces it, appeasing our enemies makes us safer, and increasing spending on health care reduces it. We just don;t see how that is possible.

223 dicentra  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:29:50pm

re: #202 Sharmuta

How about bringing a viable alternative agenda instead of empty rhetoric?

What empty rhetoric? What's empty about standing up and saying that the Emperor is Nekkid? What's empty about saying that Obama's success is America's failure?

224 MandyManners  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:30:05pm

re: #155 Sharmuta

I'm not interested in school yard name calling- it does nothing to fix our problems. What I would like to see is a real agenda we can repeatedly point to for the American public, along the lines of the Contract With America. "This is our plan, and we're sticking to it, and if we don't vote us out of office". How refreshing would that be?

Ah iz en lurv wif u.

225 Randall Gross  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:30:09pm

re: #189 SpartanWoman

Everyone sees Obama's deceit. Get real. Obama's easy target, and has made such a dust up of his first one hundred days that we should be attacking that, not focusing the light on scenery chewing talk show pundits because they want everything to be about them.

The real danger isn't even Obama, he voted present, and much of his presidency is going to be Carteresque. Keeping him as the lightning rod is exactly what the left wants. Have you been paying attention to what Congress has done lately? Obama's not the problem, Pelosi and Reid are.

226 pink freud  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:30:19pm

re: #201 Dark_Falcon

Here are a few:

1. Ruthless Aggression: The left seeks our destruction, thus they are unworthy of respect. We should watch our words, but we should still attack leftist policies without hesitation. Our ideas are better, and we need to say that and why they are better, early and often.

2. Don't Freeze Up: The left likes to try to shock conservatives or paralyze them by turning our rules against us. Don't fall for it. Talk about how the left has no respect for anything other that which furthers their cause. Attack them for a moral tactics, call them liars, make the public see them as they are.

3. Counter Protest: Don't let the left dominate the streets. Get your own protesters out there and make your message heard. Do not provoke or start violence, but don't let yourself be pushed around either.

A worthy beginning. We must stop reacting to their playbook and develop our own.

227 hazzyday  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:30:20pm

re: #166 kansas

The Lizards never seem to miss me when I leave.

Dust blowing in the wind.....

228 mattm  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:30:36pm

OT

want to submit a question for the 0ne to answer on his online town hall meeting tommorow? Then be prepared to register for a whitehouse(dot)gov account.

229 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:30:57pm

re: #204 Wendya

I would settle for an informed electorate who didn't get the sum of their political knowledge from CNN or ABC. Several republicans have given rather impassioned speeches from the floor of the house and senate regarding the budget and other legislation. Speeches that offer alternatives and explain why the democrat proposed legislation is harmful. Have you seen them or seen them anywhere other than youtube? You are allowing the media to frame the republican party based on what they want you to believe.


No. I am judging them by their efforts and their successes. Since there is much at stake, I grade harshly.

230 Zimriel  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:31:05pm

I sense a wave of deletes and bans a'coming.

231 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:31:09pm

re: #29 Sharmuta

I'm reposting this comment from the last thread because I feel it's relevant to say again:

Fiscal conservatives have been marginalized for long enough. It's time we stood up and said we're no longer willing to be held hostage by the religious passions of our so-called conservative fellows. They can stay if they'd like, but their religious passions belong at church, not in the party because their fervency is repelling too many people away, including other conservatives, and it's costing America by leading us to government power being in the hands of socialists. This has to stop, and stop now.

The problem is that even when Republicans were in charge, they didn't practice fiscal conservatism. After W was elected, fiscal conservatism went out the window.

232 Randall Gross  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:31:21pm

re: #193 Zimriel

I listened to his show that day. You seem awfully authoritarian here with your council of scientists to run the country and nobody should be allowed to comment comment.

233 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:31:25pm
234 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:31:32pm

We all want the USA to succeed.

I am not convinced that Obama's policies will achieve this.

235 hazzyday  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:31:49pm

re: #211 Biff

So Charles, all Germans in 1933 should have wished that Hitler succeed?

I think we can wish that America succeeds. But if you believe that Obama is a danger to America, why would you wish him success?

You're new here.....

236 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:32:24pm

re: #213 jcm

DING!

I would love to hear some of that!

Exactly. It bothers me that the only place I see responsible conservatives is in the blogosphere.

237 strikefo  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:32:25pm

Personally, I want Obama to fail.

I listened to him during the campaign, and I knew that his socialist policies would be enacted. He wants, and will probably get: socialized medicine, socialized banking system, cap and trade, and amnesty. All of these things I don't want to happen.

They probably will. And when they do, I hope that it all blows up in his face. All of these policies need to fail in order to wake people up to the destruction of America that is the result of liberalism.

If he succeeds, we are not America anymore. We are Europe.

Watch a politician with some courage:

Youtube Video
238 jet2nc  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:32:34pm

The problem is that the majority of Obama's presidential objectives are left leaning, socialistic political decisions aimed at keeping peace with his far left support and weakening this great country. There are only a small minority of his objectives that are positive, that support a strong US economy, military and uphold the US Constitution.
If Obama ever decides to make decisions that will strengthen the country rather than weaken it, empower rather than weaken our citizens, then I will strengthen my support for him. Until then, I wish President Obama the same success that the Democrats wished for President George W Bush.

239 MandyManners  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:32:35pm

re: #177 Sharmuta

With what? Empty, divisive rhetoric?! How about some real leadership and an agenda? Can I get that?

How hard is this?!

240 seagreenroom  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:32:36pm

If "O" succeeds, we'll be living in a socialist hell hole.

Why would anybody hope for that?

241 kansas  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:32:37pm

re: #214 NavyGunner

I may be in reactionary denial mode, refusing to look at the real problems that cost Republicans the last two major elections but I do NOT want Obama to fail. I JUST have no desire to see him bankrupt the nation or enact what I consider to be his socialist agenda.

Change two words, and you've said the same thing that won't be used to bludgeon you over the head.

242 Dar ul Harbarian  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:32:49pm

re: #231 Ward Cleaver

The problem is that even when Republicans were in charge, they didn't practice fiscal conservatism. After W was elected, fiscal conservatism went out the window.

That's right. After the Lewinsky scandal the Republicans lost all focus on bread and butter conservative ideas.

243 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:32:54pm

I don't want Obama to fail and I don't want Obama to succeed, I want Obama to resign.

244 Right mind left  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:33:03pm

My frustration is watching the house and senate pass these insane bills that hock our future success and mortgage our grandchildrens' futures. The republicans that stand up and try to fight back fall on deaf ears and mocking so they end up impotent. This is not a bipartisan government, it is a railroad.

I am terribly worried about the goals of this administration, if in fact they are based on the rhetoric of Alinsky principles or the Cloward-Piven strategies. Time will tell. If in fact this man who holds our leadership office intends to drag down our constitution and create a socialist state then I desperately want him not to succeed, or to fail at that endeavor. It would be devastating - long term WRONG.

There are many solutions that have proven workable and successful that this administration does not want to implement. Their approach is detrimental, so what should be said and how should it be said to change the path they are taking?

245 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:33:11pm

re: #218 Bloodnok

The spin on "wanting 0bama to fail" in the media is "Republicans want the economy to get worse and for YOU to lose your job". It's as simple as that. We may know which individual tasks we want him to fail at, or we may only want legislation to fail, but it doesn't come across like that. It's a trap.

That's exactly the issue right there- we hand the msm this weapon because we ought to know they will ALWAYS spin what we say as to reflect poorly upon our party. So instead, how about a counter-agenda?

No- it's just too much fun, I suppose, for some people to revel in the opportunity they think they have to turn into the inverse of very people we were so appalled by the last 8 years. The only reason this was "successful" for them is because the msm covered up their antics and bullshitted the American people by not exposing 0bama during the campaign. We're not going to get this treatment from the msm- ever. So we can't just flip the playbook. We have to work around the double standard. IMO, the best way to do that is with a clear message on how we would be doing things differently.

246 Gearhead  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:33:18pm

re: #217 TheMatrix31

What has he done to warrant giving him a chance? He didn't do anything in his past life, he didn't do anything during his campaign, and all he's done while being in office was confirm our worst suspicions. He doesn't deserve a chance, because all he did was try to convince people and all his supporters thought that he'd flip the switch overnight.

Speaking for myself only: He really was underqualified for the job, but we (as a nation) elected him. I agree with you about his lack of his experience and his basic dishonesty, but I refuse to go around for the next for years whining because my party lost. I just remember all of the 'he's not my president' after Bush defeated Gore.

247 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:33:44pm

re: #224 MandyManners

{Mandy}

248 dicentra  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:33:55pm

re: #132 Shug

It comes down to tact and appearing gracious.
Don't appear to be a sore loser. Americans hate a sore loser.

Were the dems tactful and gracious these last 8 years?

Not even!

Were they sore losers?

You betcha!

The GOP has been playing the "nice guys" game for much too long, but they mistake "nice" for "submissive." They're like abused wives who are sure that if they have the dinner ready on time, then the beatings will stop.

Knock it off with the Stockholm Syndrome, people. This is war.!

249 Aviator  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:34:27pm

re: #246 Gearhead

Speaking for myself only: He really was underqualified for the job, but we (as a nation) elected him. I agree with you about his lack of his experience and his basic dishonesty, but I refuse to go around for the next for years whining because my party lost. I just remember all of the 'he's not my president' after Bush defeated Gore.

I think my COUNTRY lost.

250 Mich-again  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:34:34pm

re: #210 dalejrfanfreak

Either you fight the good fight or you sit there silently and let them tell you how to live.

What do you mean by fight the good fight?

251 kansas  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:34:34pm

re: #243 Kreuzueber Halbmond

I don't want Obama to fail and I don't want Obama to succeed, I want Obama to resign.

Maybe you're not so Kreuzy after all.

252 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:34:43pm

re: #223 dicentra

What empty rhetoric? What's empty about standing up and saying that the Emperor is Nekkid? What's empty about saying that Obama's success is America's failure?

Go back and read #75. Read it until it sinks in.

253 Afrocity  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:34:54pm

I have a funny story. Today after my surgery, they brought me to my room. I was groggy and the nurse said you want some TV on? I nodded and she asked what channel. I mumbled Fox News. She said what, I said Fox. She turned it on to Fox, I dozed off again. Another nurse came back I opened my eyes and Glenn Beck was on. I smiled and laughed a little. She said "Want a fruit cup, some apple juice, graham crackers?"

She stuffed the cracker in my mouth and began to check my IV and Glenn Beck was saying OBAMA IS A SOCIALIST!. The nurse began to frown and she looked at the TV set. She said "you want me to change the channel?"
I shook my head. "You sure honey?"
I muttered "I like Glenn Beck...I am a Republican" (mind u the drugs were still working and I should have known not to say something in Chicago with people that monitor my IV)
She said okay, looked at me strange.
Then came back 40 minutes later and I thanked her she said "it must be nice having healthcare, not many can afford it."

254 AMER1CAN  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:34:58pm

Let's turn things into a positive.

I'd like to see Obama succeed in giving a press conference without using a teleprompter.

/

255 Shug  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:35:13pm

I hope the President fails in his bracket picks.

I need Louisville to lose

256 cronus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:35:19pm

re: #223 dicentra

What empty rhetoric? What's empty about standing up and saying that the Emperor is Nekkid? What's empty about saying that Obama's success is America's failure?

So your "substantive" media strategy would be:

You: "I want Obama's agenda to fail because it hurts America."

Reporter: Ok, fine. What would like to see happen instead?

You: "Blank stare"

257 reine.de.tout  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:35:37pm

re: #187 LudwigVanQuixote

ENTP, you will be very hard pressed to find a professional scientist who isn't a raging NT of some stripe.

I'm not a scientist, I was in HR, and very very odd to have an INTJ in HR work.
Really odd.

258 Biff  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:35:55pm

re: #235 hazzyday

You're new here.....


Almost five years, and four months longer than you my friend.

259 jcm  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:36:47pm

re: #254 AMER1CAN

Let's turn things into a positive.

I'd like to see Obama succeed in giving a press conference without using a teleprompter.

/

We want the TelePrompTer to have an EPIC FAIL!

260 cronus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:37:20pm

re: #259 jcm

We want the TelePrompTer to have an EPIC FAIL!

Ding!

261 hazzyday  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:37:23pm

re: #218 Bloodnok

The spin on "wanting 0bama to fail" in the media is "Republicans want the economy to get worse and for YOU to lose your job". It's as simple as that. We may know which individual tasks we want him to fail at, or we may only want legislation to fail, but it doesn't come across like that. It's a trap.

I think you are correct. The media needs to be the GoP target first. Then they need to counter Pres Obama policies.

262 kansas  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:37:25pm

re: #253 Afrocity


Then came back 40 minutes later and I thanked her she said "it must be nice having healthcare, not many can afford it."

Jeez. That would be why they are building so many new hospitals around here. That and a Walgreen's on every corner.

Surgery? You OK?

263 SteveC  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:37:54pm

Off Topic -

Tony's Heart Transplant was scheduled for 7:00 PM Eastern but was pushed back to 9:00 PM. As far as I know, they are in the Operating Room RIGHT NOW.

I'll update when I know more, or post on the overnight/morning thread.

264 IslandLibertarian  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:38:02pm

How "bout
"If Obama succeeds with his agenda, the United States of America is FUCKED!"
How's that for an answer to the fucking left wing America hating MSM that lied all the way to the "0" victory?
FUCK IT!
I've got a headache!
Fuck "The One!"

Power to the Correct People!
("0"s people are so incorrect.)

265 David Simon  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:38:10pm

re: #233 mijacat

My President is Black...
My economy is whack....

Mew

...mijacat is scat.

266 iLikeCandy  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:38:16pm

afro, I hope you're okay!

That's a cute story. I was on a plane a few months ago (before the election) and I popped open my laptop, which has Bush/Cheney as the wallpaper. The woman next to me said, Say, is that Bush and Cheney as your wallpaper? Me: Yes. I like them. She said I do too. Then the woman next to her said I like them too. The three of us ragged on Obama for the whole flight.

267 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:38:17pm

re: #211 Biff

Fucking Godwin-ed the thread, damnit.

268 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:38:20pm

re: #231 Ward Cleaver

The problem is that even when Republicans were in charge, they didn't practice fiscal conservatism. After W was elected, fiscal conservatism went out the window.

That's why we have to take our party back! When a republican tosses fiscal conservative policy under the bus, the GOP in that district needs to nominate a new republican. I define a RINO as one who isn't fiscally conservative, so when we whine about these people, part of this is on us that we don't replace them at the primary level. We have to take ownership of our RINOS and start kicking them to the curb. Once we do, other republicans will get the message they need to stay on target or they will meet the same fate.

269 Shug  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:38:27pm

re: #254 AMER1CAN

Let's turn things into a positive.

I'd like to see Obama succeed in giving a press conference without using a teleprompter.

/


My wife and I both noticed the same thing last night. I said, where are the teleprompters and then we both could see he was reading from directly in front of the podium.

so in response to criticism about teleprompters, rather than get rid of teleprompters, he hid them from anybody who wasn't paying attention.

Style over substance

270 FrogMarch  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:38:30pm

btw- Bill HR1388 - the mandatory service bill - people should read this bill.

271 Wendya  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:38:32pm

re: #218 Bloodnok

The spin on "wanting 0bama to fail" in the media is "Republicans want the economy to get worse and for YOU to lose your job". It's as simple as that. We may know which individual tasks we want him to fail at, or we may only want legislation to fail, but it doesn't come across like that. It's a trap.

It's a no win situation. If a republican opposes legislation, it's because they want Obama to fail. There is no alternative given equal time when it comes to the media. 100 republicans could call a press conference to outline an alternative and it would still be framed as being obstructionist.

272 Afrocity  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:38:33pm

re: #263 SteveC

Off Topic -

Tony's Heart Transplant was scheduled for 7:00 PM Eastern but was pushed back to 9:00 PM. As far as I know, they are in the Operating Room RIGHT NOW.

I'll update when I know more, or post on the overnight/morning thread.

I will pray for him...

273 dicentra  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:38:39pm

re: #245 Sharmuta

So we can't just flip the playbook.

Not asking you to. I'm asking you (all conservatives) to stop playing the game at all. When they ask if you've stopped beating your wife, for crying out loud don't answer the question.

Say, "I reject the premises of that question. It is malicious at its core."

Tell. The. Truth.

Call out the tactics. Expose their mendacity. "Working around the double standard" is not acceptable. We need to destroy the double standard where it stands. Because there's no way around this: only through.

274 Star Tripper  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:39:07pm

Bambi is destroying the economy, insulting our allies and grovelling to our enemies. He has managed to make George Soros rich (funny that) and bumped up the market for gold, guns, and Spam (Hormel, not e-mail). And we worry about how the MSM will see us. It's a 1-2 punch process. Slam the enemy, promote positive alternative, repeat often.

275 iLikeCandy  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:39:14pm

re: #264 IslandLibertarian

How "bout
"If Obama succeeds with his agenda, the United States of America is FUCKED!"
How's that for an answer to the fucking left wing America hating MSM that lied all the way to the "0" victory?
FUCK IT!
I've got a headache!
Fuck "The One!"

Power to the Correct People!
("0"s people are so incorrect.)

America . . . FUCK YEAH!

276 TheMatrix31  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:39:25pm

I'm out.

Go Suns.

277 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:39:28pm

re: #211 Biff

So Charles, all Germans in 1933 should have wished that Hitler succeed?

That's a completely disgusting comment. Get off my website.

278 HelloDare  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:39:43pm

I want America to succeed. I wish him no harm, but other than that, I don't care what the hell happens to Obama.

279 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:39:53pm

re: #253 Afrocity

I have a funny story. Today after my surgery, they brought me to my room. I was groggy and the nurse said you want some TV on? I nodded and she asked what channel. I mumbled Fox News. She said what, I said Fox. She turned it on to Fox, I dozed off again. Another nurse came back I opened my eyes and Glenn Beck was on. I smiled and laughed a little. She said "Want a fruit cup, some apple juice, graham crackers?"

She stuffed the cracker in my mouth and began to check my IV and Glenn Beck was saying OBAMA IS A SOCIALIST!. The nurse began to frown and she looked at the TV set. She said "you want me to change the channel?"
I shook my head. "You sure honey?"
I muttered "I like Glenn Beck...I am a Republican" (mind u the drugs were still working and I should have known not to say something in Chicago with people that monitor my IV)
She said okay, looked at me strange.
Then came back 40 minutes later and I thanked her she said "it must be nice having healthcare, not many can afford it."

littleoldlady gets around!

280 Dar ul Harbarian  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:40:00pm

re: #253 Afrocity

.....
Then came back 40 minutes later and I thanked her she said "it must be nice having healthcare, not many can afford it."


If she thinks not enough people get healthcare now, just wait until its free!

281 NYCHardhat  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:40:34pm

re: #15 JammieWearingFool

We want his socialist policies to fail. Nothing wrong with saying that.

The left wanted Bush to fail and they mostly succeeeded at making it happen.

I want America to succeed. I want the left to fail.

This is it. This sums it up.

282 Dr. Shalit  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:40:35pm

re: #202 Sharmuta

How about bringing a viable alternative agenda instead of empty rhetoric?

Sharmuta -

The BASICS of the Alternative Agenda are EASY - The US Constitution, or as Justice Scalia sees it - "That Restraining Document" with regards to the Federal Government, that offers "Life, Liberty, and Property/The Pursuit of Happiness to its citizens as a grant from their CREATOR, not a sufferance of their GOVERNMENT.

-S-

283 Harry Tuttle  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:40:38pm

re: #259 jcm

We want the TelePrompTer to have an EPIC FAIL!

What if we could pipe stuff in over the internet to Obamas teleprompter:

"the Prime Ribroast Minister and... I do the cha-cha like a sissy girl. I lik-a do da cha-cha. I'm sorry we seem to be having some technical difficulties."

284 Shug  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:40:44pm

Biff Biff Biff.......


/McFly

285 Mich-again  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:40:44pm

We have people on the boat rooting for the Captain to plow into the iceberg. I don't get it.

286 SteveC  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:40:53pm

re: #277 Charles

That's a completely disgusting comment. Get off my website.

Ouch! That's gonna leave a mark!

287 Gearhead  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:40:58pm

re: #249 Aviator

I think my COUNTRY lost.

I can't disagree with that.

I guess my initial rant was provoked by the idea of GOP leadership not offering something better. I do hope that socialization/nationalization fails. I hope that the government's reach for greater authority fails. I hope someone succeeds at getting the economy going again, at continuing to protect us from terrorism.

(Shutting up before I stick my foot farther in my mouth).

288 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:41:08pm

re: #28 Afrocity

Hannity just had the architect behind the "get Rush Limbaugh" plot on. Sean pointed out that liberals openly said they wanted Bush to fail. Why are there two sets of rules for liberals and conservatives.

Hey! You're alive!

What did liberals want Bush to fail at? (As opposed to do or not do?)

289 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:41:22pm

re: #216 David Simon

Sen. Gregg and Rep. Ryan are getting a lot of face time, and they're articulating the problems with Obama's fiscal policies quite well. The only problem is that they have a record of voting one way when their party is in power, and another when they're not.

Way too many of the politicians in DC have gotten too used to being there. That's why we need term limits.

290 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:41:27pm

My point is simple: when you frame this in such an absolutist negative way, you are handing victory to Obama. People don't want to hear this crap. It's self-defeating and unpleasant.

291 iLikeCandy  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:41:50pm

re: #273 dicentra


Call out the tactics. Expose their mendacity. "Working around the double standard" is not acceptable. We need to destroy the double standard where it stands. Because there's no way around this: only through.

This, unfortunately, is why the left is calling us the Party of No. But it's the right thing to do.

292 FrogMarch  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:41:51pm

The democrat's use words and language for deception.

The republican's use words and phrases until they are worn out and no one cares. Give it up - time to move on.

I want Obama's bad ideas and disastrous Euro-socialism, Mussolini big- government-married-to-industry fascism to fail.
I'd prefer that Obama wasn't a disaster - because if he is, we are all screwed.

293 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:42:00pm

re: #273 dicentra

Not asking you to. I'm asking you (all conservatives) to stop playing the game at all. When they ask if you've stopped beating your wife, for crying out loud don't answer the question.

Say, "I reject the premises of that question. It is malicious at its core."

Tell. The. Truth.

Call out the tactics. Expose their mendacity. "Working around the double standard" is not acceptable. We need to destroy the double standard where it stands. Because there's no way around this: only through.

And you stop the msm spin how?

294 dicentra  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:42:19pm

re: #256 cronus

So your "substantive" media strategy would be:

You: "I want Obama's agenda to fail because it hurts America."

Reporter: Ok, fine. What would like to see happen instead?

You: "Blank stare"

Like hell!

How about ratcheting back the government's involvement in private industry? How about stopping these insane bail-outs? How about actually complying with the tenth amendment?

Geez louise, lizardoids! Do you really not know what YOU believe? Have you not thought out this kind of thing? Do you not have a constitutional, classical liberal critique of what Obama's doing at your fingertips?

And if not, why not? This ain't tiddly-winks, people. Get your A game together and stop worrying about the word "fail."

Or else that's what you'll end up doing.

295 Shug  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:42:28pm

re: #285 Mich-again

We have people on the boat rooting for the Captain to plow into the iceberg. I don't get it.


We have Captain Hazlewood at the helm

296 Bloodnok  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:42:46pm

re: #261 hazzyday

I think you are correct. The media needs to be the GoP target first. Then they need to counter Pres Obama policies.

It's going to be tough without the media soapbox, but the GOP needs to come up with sensible ideas that the public can't ignore. Ideas that make sense. Look at what happened with Clinton and the ideas from the Contract With America that he stole. I realize the GOP had majorities at the time, but Clinton knew the public was behind these ideas. As stubborn as the Dems and 0bama are, a few well thought out and wildly popular ideas could see their way through lest the Dems in contestable seats face blowback.

We don't wait for them to fail. We intercept the ball and get the public behind us. Fiscal conservatism can do it for us. The GOP simply is not behind it fully yet.

297 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:43:08pm

re: #235 hazzyday

You're new here.....

That was definitely Godwinian.

298 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:43:14pm

re: #66 ErislDysnomia

Just remember, political correctness is a tool invented by leftists to handicap anyone opposing them.

Civil discourse, on the other hand, is not.

299 kansas  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:43:15pm

re: #295 Shug

We have Captain Hazlewood at the helm

Yeah, we don't want him to spill his load....wait maybe that was Clinton...sorry, my bad.

300 dicentra  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:43:21pm

re: #290 Charles

My point is simple: when you frame this in such an absolutist negative way, you are handing victory to Obama. People don't want to hear this crap. It's self-defeating and unpleasant.

I want to hear it. Being unpleasant didn't cost the Dems any votes, so why are you worrying that it will cost the GOP?

301 FrogMarch  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:43:27pm

re: #15 JammieWearingFool

We want his socialist policies to fail. Nothing wrong with saying that.

The left wanted Bush to fail and they mostly succeeeded at making it happen.

I want America to succeed. I want the left to fail.

bingo.

302 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:43:34pm

re: #289 Ward Cleaver

Way too many of the politicians in DC have gotten too used to being there. That's why we need term limits.

I think more than term limits, we need a proactive conservative electorate. We must take it upon ourselves to vote out those in our party that hurt our principles.

303 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:43:44pm

re: #237 strikefo

Personally, I want Obama to fail.

I listened to him during the campaign, and I knew that his socialist policies would be enacted. He wants, and will probably get: socialized medicine, socialized banking system, cap and trade, and amnesty. All of these things I don't want to happen.

They probably will. And when they do, I hope that it all blows up in his face. All of these policies need to fail in order to wake people up to the destruction of America that is the result of liberalism.

If he succeeds, we are not America anymore. We are Europe.

Watch a politician with some courage:

Its a great vid. I do need to point out that SpaceJesus posted the vid on the last thread.

304 MandyManners  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:43:45pm

re: #268 Sharmuta

That's why we have to take our party back! When a republican tosses fiscal conservative policy under the bus, the GOP in that district needs to nominate a new republican. I define a RINO as one who isn't fiscally conservative, so when we whine about these people, part of this is on us that we don't replace them at the primary level. We have to take ownership of our RINOS and start kicking them to the curb. Once we do, other republicans will get the message they need to stay on target or they will meet the same fate.

What about those who define RINO's as those who are fiscally conservative but don't demand a litmus test on certain issues?

305 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:43:45pm

re: #294 dicentra

Like hell!

How about ratcheting back the government's involvement in private industry? How about stopping these insane bail-outs? How about actually complying with the tenth amendment?

Geez louise, lizardoids! Do you really not know what YOU believe? Have you not thought out this kind of thing? Do you not have a constitutional, classical liberal critique of what Obama's doing at your fingertips?

And if not, why not? This ain't tiddly-winks, people. Get your A game together and stop worrying about the word "fail."

Or else that's what you'll end up doing.

Did you miss 90% of my post? I said, "Criticize him, show where he’s wrong, point out the flaws in his policies, even mock the guy for his reliance on a teleprompter."

All of this is appropriate. Saying you want him to FAIL is cutting your own throat.

306 Emerald  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:43:58pm

Unfortunately, we have an unqualified president, but he is leading the country. What these commentators don't understand is that they're essentially implying they want America to fail with him. It's a package deal for the next four years. List any of the innumerable flaws the man has; don't make half-ass comments that alienate voters.

307 avanti  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:44:07pm

re: #89 Charles

And yes, I know I'm going to piss off a lot of people by departing from the talking points. But this is wrong.

The fact that you stood up for what you thought was right, knowing it might not be popular says a great deal about you. I'm going to have a beer now, and just feel guilty that many on the left would never follow your example of honesty.

308 FrogMarch  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:44:13pm

re: #292 FrogMarch

The democrats use words and language for deception.

The republicans use words and phrases until they are worn out and no one cares. Give it up - time to move on.

I want Obama's bad ideas and disastrous Euro-socialism, Mussolini big- government-married-to-industry fascism to fail.
I'd prefer that Obama wasn't a disaster - because if he is, we are all screwed.

fixed...

309 jcm  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:44:27pm

re: #270 FrogMarch

btw- Bill HR1388 - the mandatory service bill - people should read this bill.

You are hereby ordered to report for induction into the USA Service program.

310 Afrocity  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:45:04pm

re: #279 Sharmuta

littleoldlady gets around!

I know, when the nurse said fruit cup ,I thought of LGF and you know all of the support of my lizard angels got me through today. I had no well wishes from anyone in my mail but lizards...When I told my aunt that, she was amazed that online blog could be so supportive.

311 Harry Tuttle  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:45:10pm

re: #302 Sharmuta

I think more than term limits, we need a proactive conservative electorate. We must take it upon ourselves to vote out those in our party that hurt our principles.

That's part of what I was talking about in post #4.

312 fish  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:45:16pm

re: #267 Slumbering Behemoth

Fucking Godwin-ed the thread, damnit.

I've always wondered: Is "Nazi Porn" Godwin or Rule 34?

313 Gus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:45:36pm

The general public mood of the American people indicates that they do not want Obama to fail. If one is to make a blanket statement such as "I want Obama to fail" most people will see that as a call for America to fail. This is particularly true, as Charles stated, with the middle whom independents and swing voters.

The problem here is that the media has taken the lead in the sound byte, "I want Obama to fail" and they are successfully using it to bait Republicans to make statements counter to the mood of Americans. They fail to see this and it is apparent in this interview in which John Roberts takes the lead and controls this interview quite readily. Republicans should reject this tactic by refusing to follow the lead and instead begin a dialogue not on "wanting Obama to fail" but on why they believe his policies will lead to ruination on many fronts -- more particularly with regards to the free market -- and put forth a sound alternative.

While their track record regarding spending is preferable to the Democrats their overall record on spending leaves a lot to be desired. Just today the roll call for the 6 billion dollar "national service program" resulted in only 14 Republicans voting ney. The most important task for the Republican is to follow their stated principles; perform as required for the American people; and to get results.

314 Dar ul Harbarian  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:45:46pm

re: #300 dicentra

I want to hear it. Being unpleasant didn't cost the Dems any votes, so why are you worrying that it will cost the GOP?

The democrats didn't win by being negative.
They won because so many people lost tons of personal wealth in the last couple years.

Remember: "It's the economy, stupid" (not that you are stupid)

315 Dan G.  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:45:46pm

Personally, I blame the GOP for Obama. Obama was elected due to the void left by the unprincipled, theocratic, direction that the GOP has taken. How can you expect a rational person to vote for the GOP's candidate considering that when they had power, the GOP increased socialized medicine via the prescription drug plan. Any complaints from the GOP candidate about how the leftist Obama is going to nationalize healthcare will be ignored due to the cloud of putrefactive hypocrisy surrounding the candidate. Statements about how Obama is going to spend the U.S. in to ruin? Oops, the GOP was behind the first spendulus (i.e. the first step towards nationalization of industry).

A core value is that which one defends with life and limb. What are the GOP leaders defending with life and limb these days? What actions are they spending their limited time and attention on? How much time have they spent reducing the extraneous expenditures? How much time have they spent defending the freedoms outlined in the Constitution. Freedom of speach? Oops, McCain-Feingold. Free association? Oops, Sarbanes-Oxley.

I will not fight for the GOP name. If the GOP decides to remake itself into the party of American Principles, they'll regain my support. But at present, they're just as much an empty suit as Obama is.

A question for those of you opposed to Charles' position here. Do you honestly believe that Obama won because of the plethora of soundbites he accumulated during the campaign? Do you honestly believe that this the dominant strategy for success in defending our nation from the enemies of freedom within our borders?

316 Mich-again  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:45:47pm

re: #274 Star Tripper

And we worry about how the MSM will see us.

Who said that?

317 Gearhead  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:45:50pm

re: #302 Sharmuta

I think more than term limits, we need a proactive conservative electorate. We must take it upon ourselves to vote out those in our party that hurt our principles.

That's exactly why I stay involved.

318 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:45:53pm

re: #294 dicentra

How about ratcheting back the government's involvement in private industry? How about stopping these insane bail-outs? How about actually complying with the tenth amendment?

Gee- you mean like proposing a real agenda?

Geez louise, lizardoids! Do you really not know what YOU believe? Have you not thought out this kind of thing? Do you not have a constitutional, classical liberal critique of what Obama's doing at your fingertips?

WTF are you talking about? Many comments on this thread are calling for a real agenda from our side- you know, like telling the American people exactly what it is we believe instead of just spewing bullshit.

319 FrogMarch  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:45:57pm

re: #309 jcm

You are hereby ordered to report for induction into the USA Service program.

I'm puzzled why some idiot like Alex Jones suddenly cares. but seriously, the thing is a tad scary. Mandatory service? yikes.

320 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:46:17pm

re: #290 Charles

My point is simple: when you frame this in such an absolutist negative way, you are handing victory to Obama. People don't want to hear this crap. It's self-defeating and unpleasant.

If Obama can spin away all conservatives as kooks, it works in his favor.

321 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:46:30pm

re: #307 avanti

The fact that you stood up for what you thought was right, knowing it might not be popular says a great deal about you. I'm going to have a beer now, and just feel guilty that many on the left would never follow your example of honesty.

As you should.

322 rawmuse  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:46:48pm

I down for the preservation of the Republic and the US Constitution.
Which, last time I looked, put me 180 degrees at odds with Mr. Obama and his administration, even by his own admission.

I'll let the chips fall where they may.

323 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:46:51pm

re: #303 Dark_Falcon

Its a great vid. I do need to point out that SpaceJesus posted the vid on the last thread.

Thank you for pointing that out. SpaceJesus needs positive reinforcement. Much like one of my students, who THANK GOD, finally got out of mandatory after-school study hall this week. Meaning I can stop having to keep on foot firmly on him while making him do his religion HW.

324 cronus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:46:54pm

re: #294 dicentra

If conservative elected officials had their "A game" together we wouldn't be discussing the word "fail" period.

Anonymous blog commentors and the conservative echo chamber can say whatever we/they want. But electeds and party officials are supposed to be deft -- mixing criticism with affirmation. It's an art form and those in leadership aren't practicing it particularly well right now.

325 Wendya  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:46:55pm

re: #305 Charles

Did you miss 90% of my post? I said, "Criticize him, show where he’s wrong, point out the flaws in his policies, even mock the guy for his reliance on a teleprompter."

All of this is appropriate. Saying you want him to FAIL is cutting your own throat.

In all fairness, how many congressmen have flat out said they want him to fail vs the congressmen who have presented alternatives and criticized his positions based on the damage they will cause? And in the latter group, how many have been reduced to "They want him to fail" soundbites by the media?

326 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:46:55pm

re: #320 Ward Cleaver

If Obama can spin away all conservatives as kooks, it works in his favor.

EXACTLY! +1776 to you.

327 Shug  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:47:02pm

re: #315 Dan G.

1000 updings.

and not to mention, 40% of the earmarks in the porkulus package were from republicans

328 EasyLiving1  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:47:02pm

Gov. Jindal was more eloquent, inspiring, and convincing that Charles gives him credit. Were Charles summary apt, Gov. Jindal would more likely be Dr. Jindal, head of the Creationist Studies program at LSU.

A bigger problem than any hysteria about "GOP Talking Points" and whatnot is this: Gov. Jindal needs to know how to convince those of use here tonight how to help him defeat Obama in 2012.

Then we gotta convince lotsa other people.

Let's get to work.

329 HelloDare  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:47:32pm

Interesting that this bumper sticker is up at NOfP right now.

330 NelsFree  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:47:43pm

I've had a hard time keeping up with reviewing the posts, so I hope that this is not a repeat...

It is my opinion that Obama's policies and agenda cannot be separated from him, and he will not compromise them. On that basis, I want him to fail. I think others are expressing the same sentiment without sufficient clarification.

331 kansas  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:47:49pm

re: #309 jcm

You are hereby ordered to report for induction into the USA Service program.

I looked up that bill. I tried to read it for a while. If you understand anything that was said in that mess, you got my appreciation.

332 MandyManners  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:47:57pm

re: #307 avanti

The fact that you stood up for what you thought was right, knowing it might not be popular says a great deal about you. I'm going to have a beer now, and just feel guilty that many on the left would never follow your example of honesty.

THAT'S THE FUCKING POINT!

333 Bloodnok  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:48:10pm

re: #332 MandyManners

THAT'S THE FUCKING POINT!

LMAO!

334 itellu3times  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:48:22pm

You gotta accent-thu-ate the positive,
E-lim-inate the negative,
An latch on
To the affirmative
Dont mess with mister in-between!

You gotta spread joy up to the maximum,
Bring gloom down to the minimum,
An have faith ( amen! )
Or pandemoniums
Liable to walk upon the scene!

335 DisgustingOratory  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:48:25pm

Im outraged Jindal says anything! Did you know hes a Creationist and went to a hardcore Catholic church?

336 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:48:38pm

re: #312 fish

What's Rule 34?

337 kansas  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:48:40pm

re: #314 Dar ul Harbarian

The democrats didn't win by being negative.
They won because so many people lost tons of personal wealth in the last couple years.

Remember: "It's the economy, stupid" (not that you are stupid)

The personal wealth was lost after the Dems gained the House and Senate. How about that?

338 FrogMarch  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:48:54pm

re: #305 Charles

Did you miss 90% of my post? I said, "Criticize him, show where he’s wrong, point out the flaws in his policies, even mock the guy for his reliance on a teleprompter."

All of this is appropriate. Saying you want him to FAIL is cutting your own throat.

Bingo!

ok - too many bingos for one night.

339 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:49:01pm

re: #277 Charles

That's a completely disgusting comment. Get off my website.

OK, the charcoal is on the grill. Biff's Gamey Buttocks will be cooked to perfection in about 40 minutes. As always, Charles get the first serving.

340 dicentra  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:49:01pm

re: #252 Sharmuta

Go back and read #75. Read it until it sinks in.

Read it. And I've been down this road already. That's a legalistic way of looking at things. Lawyers are really good at the courtroom and really good at spin, but they're not so clever when it comes to the real world. And definitely not clever when it comes to speaking the plain truth.

But this isn't a courtroom, and the GOP attempts at spin haven't panned out. Being negative about a negative development is not impolite.

What are you going to tell your children?
"Mommy, why didn't you fight against Obama?"
"We didn't want to be rude. We didn't want to be too negative."

Is that going to feed the bulldog?

And you stop the msm spin how?

I've been saying how in all my comments. If you can't see what I'm saying, then I'm wasting pixels here.

He dicho.

341 Right mind left  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:49:13pm

re: #290 Charles

My point is simple: when you frame this in such an absolutist negative way, you are handing victory to Obama. People don't want to hear this crap. It's self-defeating and unpleasant.

I agree with you there. Yes, I can see your point. I think the whining is because people are feeling ineffectual with the sweeping tidal wave of spend and grow the government beyond where it has ever been - and there doesn't seem to be any stopping for his plans.

I see in the congressional records when Republicans stand up and make points they are shot down or ignored because the administration is on a free reign spree. A grumble jab saying FAIL is a frustrated statement, yes, self defeating.

What SHOULD be done is more clearly what Buzz says in #75, that the connect the dots points must be made, the alternative solutions must be repeated and emphasized at every opportunity. Stand up and say NO, we must do THIS plan for these reasons...

But, when it falls on deaf liberal spend-fest opponents it really is upsetting.

342 Mich-again  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:49:29pm

re: #335 DisgustingOratory

Im outraged Jindal says anything! Did you know hes a Creationist and went to a hardcore Catholic church?

Thats a stupid post. No hardcore Catholic would be creationist. Duh. Read much?

343 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:49:41pm

re: #313 Gus 802

The general public mood of the American people indicates that they do not want Obama to fail. If one is to make a blanket statement such as "I want Obama to fail" most people will see that as a call for America to fail. This is particularly true, as Charles stated, with the middle whom independents and swing voters.

The problem here is that the media has taken the lead in the sound byte, "I want Obama to fail" and they are successfully using it to bait Republicans to make statements counter to the mood of Americans. They fail to see this and it is apparent in this interview in which John Roberts takes the lead and controls this interview quite readily. Republicans should reject this tactic by refusing to follow the lead and instead begin a dialogue not on "wanting Obama to fail" but on why they believe his policies will lead to ruination on many fronts -- more particularly with regards to the free market -- and put forth a sound alternative.

While their track record regarding spending is preferable to the Democrats their overall record on spending leaves a lot to be desired. Just today the roll call for the 6 billion dollar "national service program" resulted in only 14 Republicans voting ney. The most important task for the Republican is to follow their stated principles; perform as required for the American people; and to get results.

Again- EXACTLY! We're playing into their hands while telling ourselves we're being principled.

344 iLikeCandy  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:49:43pm

re: #290 Charles

My point is simple: when you frame this in such an absolutist negative way, you are handing victory to Obama. People don't want to hear this crap. It's self-defeating and unpleasant.

Arg arg arg. The MSM, not Rush (who started all this) is the gang that is framing it in an absolutist negative way. I was so moved by Rush's plea that he loves America and its people and wants it to succeed that I darn near saved the podcast to my hard drive (only sheer laziness saved me from this drastic measure).

The most I can agree with here is that it's a lousy idea to say anything that can be truncated and twisted to sound perverse and anti-American.

And Charles, I'm down for some "unpleasantness." How else do you overcome Barney Frank and Maxine Waters? I think Paul Ryan was civil today, but it wasn't exactly pleasant.

345 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:49:54pm

re: #328 EasyLiving1

Gov. Jindal was more eloquent, inspiring, and convincing that Charles gives him credit. Were Charles summary apt, Gov. Jindal would more likely be Dr. Jindal, head of the Creationist Studies program at LSU.

A bigger problem than any hysteria about "GOP Talking Points" and whatnot is this: Gov. Jindal needs to know how to convince those of use here tonight how to help him defeat Obama in 2012.

Then we gotta convince lotsa other people.

Let's get to work.

I will not vote for any politician who promotes creationism in schools, and I will not support Bobby Jindal. This is exactly the wrong direction for the GOP.

346 jcm  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:49:58pm

re: #319 FrogMarch

I'm puzzled why some idiot like Alex Jones suddenly cares. but seriously, the thing is a tad scary. Mandatory service? yikes.

I can understand a volunteer program, ala JFK's Peace Corp. But making it "mandatory?"

347 Dr. Shalit  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:50:15pm

re: #300 dicentra

I want to hear it. Being unpleasant didn't cost the Dems any votes, so why are you worrying that it will cost the GOP?

dicentra -

It already has, remember 1995 and the "Budget Battle" - It hurt Newt and the GOP far more than Pres. Clinton. No problem with choosing a battle and where it is fought. Just understand that, especially in opposition, one does not always win.

-S-

348 Emerald  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:50:17pm

re: #328 EasyLiving1
If the GOP needs to rely on Jindal, then it is in a shitload of trouble.

349 kellino  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:50:32pm

It all depends on the context.....

No one wants an American President to fail in absolute terms since by logical extension that infers harm on America herself.

But many of us on the right, understand the true nature of Barack Obama's policies. (use your favorite -ism here).

When we think of him and the direction we want him to move this country, we beleive that direction would cause great harm to this country. So within this context, its easy to say "we want Obama to fail" as the unspoken context his his agenda.

I beleive that this is what many Democrats meant when they said in many different ways that they wanted Bush to fail.

Now yes our leaders should be move media savy with their words. But once you understand the context, I don't have an issue with what was said. There seems to be some blue-dog Democrats as well who want Obama's budget to "fail" (not pass in its current form -- and thus working AGAINST the President's agenda).

350 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:50:37pm

re: #339 Dark_Falcon

OK, the charcoal is on the grill. Biff's Gamey Buttocks will be cooked to perfection in about 40 minutes. As always, Charles get the first serving.

Grilled red peppers are really good with gamey buttocks.

351 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:50:37pm

re: #300 dicentra

I want to hear it. Being unpleasant didn't cost the Dems any votes, so why are you worrying that it will cost the GOP?

Because the Dems have the MSM on their side, and most of the unpleasantness ever gets heard by the sheeple.

352 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:50:50pm

re: #346 jcm

I can understand a volunteer program, ala JFK's Peace Corp. But making it "mandatory?"

If it's "mandatory" then it's not a "volunteer" program. Duh.

353 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:50:52pm

re: #332 MandyManners

He actually got it for once! You know- as recognition of such, I'll give him a rare upding.

354 Gus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:51:02pm

re: #343 Sharmuta

Again- EXACTLY! We're playing into their hands while telling ourselves we're being principled.

Thanks. And like I said, you can see it happen in this interview with John Roberts questioning Fred Thompson. It's subtle but there.

355 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:51:20pm

re: #350 SanFranciscoZionist

Grilled red peppers are really good with gamey buttocks.

What's the best wine?

356 Dan G.  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:51:25pm

Another question for the contrarians out there. Do you honestly believe that the American public is so stupid as to not be able to judge that Obama's policies are destructive? Do you think that the GOP will regain power by pointing out Obama's endless stream of gaffes? People know he sucks. The GOP (or another party with pro-individual values) needs to step up and define itself without making reference to Sir Gaffes A Lot... they need to be the pro-principle party, not the anti-Obama party.

357 Bloodnok  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:51:32pm

re: #353 Sharmuta

He actually got it for once! You know- as recognition of such, I'll give him a rare upding.

Why? I want Avanti to fail.

////

358 fish  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:51:36pm

re: #336 Slumbering Behemoth

What's Rule 34?

That for any conceivable subject, a porn version of it exisits.

359 Mirage  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:51:40pm

re: #355 Alouette

What's the best wine?

A nice Chianti ...

360 pink freud  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:51:40pm

re: #328 EasyLiving1

Gov. Jindal was more eloquent, inspiring, and convincing that Charles gives him credit. Were Charles summary apt, Gov. Jindal would more likely be Dr. Jindal, head of the Creationist Studies program at LSU.

A bigger problem than any hysteria about "GOP Talking Points" and whatnot is this: Gov. Jindal needs to know how to convince those of use here tonight how to help him defeat Obama in 2012.

Then we gotta convince lotsa other people.

Let's get to work.

Jindal doesn't have a prayer's chance of convincing anyone that he can defeat 0bama. They can hope all day long, but I doubt there is a soul out there that, if asked, would say that Jindal has what it takes to beat 0 (even if you take away the creationist stuff). He just doesn't have what it takes. And if they did, I do not believe they could back it up with anything other than a hope, a fervent wish, and a prayer.

361 Randall Gross  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:51:47pm

Talking about teleprompters is not going to get us the win. Trying to whip up the crazies with "Obama's a sekret [muslim/communist/non-citizen/New World Order Minion/love child/crackhead/etc] is not going to get us the win. Making the first US black president in history the Republican whipping boy of the moment by wishing him to fail is not going to stop Congress. Congress is the problem, and 2010's the next election. The Republicans need to get their heads out of the sand and go proactive instead of hysterically reactive.

362 Harry Tuttle  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:51:48pm

re: #329 HelloDare

Interesting that this bumper sticker is up at NOfP right now.

re: #311 Harry Tuttle

That's part of what I was talking about in post #4.

And one of the things that really gets them thinking is when you inform them that after all the bailouts and tax increases and inflation and government spending and stock market losses the dems are next planning to confiscate their 401k's.

They get real introspective at that point.

363 FrogMarch  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:51:52pm

re: #346 jcm

I can understand a volunteer program, ala JFK's Peace Corp. But making it "mandatory?"

indeed. "mandatory volunteer." I don't think so.

364 Dar ul Harbarian  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:51:55pm

re: #337 kansas

The personal wealth was lost after the Dems gained the House and Senate. How about that?

Maybe, but the presidential election polling said what I said. And, no, I don't have a link.

365 cronus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:52:17pm

re: #328 EasyLiving1

Gov. Jindal was more eloquent, inspiring, and convincing that Charles gives him credit. Were Charles summary apt, Gov. Jindal would more likely be Dr. Jindal, head of the Creationist Studies program at LSU.

A bigger problem than any hysteria about "GOP Talking Points" and whatnot is this: Gov. Jindal needs to know how to convince those of use here tonight how to help him defeat Obama in 2012.

Then we gotta convince lotsa other people.

Let's get to work.

Let me guess..first night outta the gate as the blog outreach director for Bobby Jindal 2012?

366 Maximu§  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:52:23pm

Bobby Jindal came out last night defending this crap, and now Fred Thompson is doing it too.

I think what Governor Jindal and Mr. Thompson's meaning is....if "success" is based on total government control in every part of our lives, trillions of dollars in debt and higher taxes, than its better to let it fail and pick up the pieces afterwards than allow a tyrannical government to grow into a monster.

367 itellu3times  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:52:26pm

re: #361 Thanos

amen

368 Mich-again  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:53:01pm

Jindal has zero chance of becoming President. Might as well run John McCain again.

369 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:53:08pm

re: #342 Mich-again

Thats a stupid post. No hardcore Catholic would be creationist. Duh. Read much?

Jindal seems to have spent a certain amount of time in evangelical company during his early years as a Christian, and I have to say that some converts to Catholicism can be sort of--batshit zealous--and not totally content with the post-Vatican-II thing. It's not totally clear to me where Jindal rests in all of this.

370 jcm  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:53:09pm

re: #352 Alouette

If it's "mandatory" then it's not a "volunteer" program. Duh.

Hey, I volunteered for lots of stuff in the Air Force!

/;-P

371 AMER1CAN  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:53:17pm

If only we could get him to succeed more!

372 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:53:20pm
373 rawmuse  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:53:44pm

Once the young people figure out that they are paying high taxes for a benefit that was paid out 10 years ago and now the cupboard is empty again, they'll get a clue. Maybe.

374 Desert Dog  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:53:47pm

Obama won with a positive (albeit vacuous and empty) message. When the Dems were on the Bush is Hitler mode, they lost. When the Dems waited for the USA to lose, they lost. I do not care for Obama much, and I am quite worried about the road he is leading us down right now, but we will not beat him with the negativity.

The Republicans have to get a set of goals down, simple and effect conservative goals, and make an honest to goodness platform that can be sold to the American public. If we come out in 2010 during the midterms and basically use "Obama Sucks" as our rallying cry, we will get our asses handed to us AGAIN. The same with 2012. We need to lay down our vision and how we intend to get there and hammer it over and over and over.

Obama will give us ample opportunity to offer alternatives to his idiotic vision, we should learn to take those opportunities when they come up. Obama is quite organized and has the benefit of American apathy and ignorance of things political on his side (in additon to most of the MSM). This guy is just a good speaker, that is all he has. As it seems now, he has used that ability as a smoke screen and distraction while he feverously works to alter the USA on many, many levels.

I am not going to sit here and bitch about the guy, I want to get the positive and correct conservative message out.

375 Bloodnok  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:53:55pm

re: #372 jmanjordan


"ONE!"

376 Randall Gross  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:53:57pm

re: #328 EasyLiving1

Get the fuck real. Even Jindal jokes about how bad he was.

377 huckfunn  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:54:02pm

I don't have a problem with the concept of "I want Obama to fail". It is what I feel in my heart. However, there are lots of ugly thoughts and expressions that I feel in my heart, and think in my mind, that I don't just dump out of the front of my face. There really has to be some better way to express those ideas.

Negative slogans just won't get it done. Think about it. The front-and-center slogan of the Iranians for the past 30 years has been "Death to America". What success has it brought their economy, their people or their standing in the world?

We can do better.

378 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:54:07pm

re: #358 fish

That for any conceivable subject, a porn version of it exisits.

Oh, then it's definitely rule 34. "Godwin" is reserved for invoking hitler/nazis in an internet discussion/argument.

379 Emerald  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:54:19pm

re: #372 jmanjordan

Don't let the door hit ya on the way out!

380 Gus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:54:20pm

re: #356 Dan G.

Another question for the contrarians out there. Do you honestly believe that the American public is so stupid as to not be able to judge that Obama's policies are destructive? Do you think that the GOP will regain power by pointing out Obama's endless stream of gaffes? People know he sucks. The GOP (or another party with pro-individual values) needs to step up and define itself without making reference to Sir Gaffes A Lot... they need to be the pro-principle party, not the anti-Obama party.

Good point. They have to define themselves and perform. How they define themselves should be based on what they can contribute to American and not solely on the criticism of Democrats.

381 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:54:22pm

re: #340 dicentra

What are you going to tell your children?
"Mommy, why didn't you fight against Obama?"
"We didn't want to be rude. We didn't want to be too negative."

This is weak and an utter distortion of my point. I'm not advocating not fighting 0bama, I'm advocating a better way of doing such over name calling and school yard antics.

382 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:54:28pm

re: #372 jmanjordan

Cool. See ya. Sorry, but you don't get to leave your dramatic goodbye comment.

383 father_of_10  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:54:32pm

Not only do I want him to fail, but I would like to see him impeached or forced to resign. His success is detrimental to freedom and prosperity.

I have no problem with my stand and I have no need to be moderate or to try to appeal to moderates. I see the so-called moderates as liberals that are afraid to go all the way.

If I appear to be partisan, so be it. I'm not ashamed of what I am.

384 Afrocity  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:54:33pm

(Let me preface this by saying I am heavily medicated)

When I was a DEM. I never thought the GOP was full of kooks. I did think Rush Limbaugh was racist that is about the only thing the MSM poisoned me with and that GOP was only the party for the rich. If we educate people on our principles do you feel that we can reach some decent people and influence them beyond the MSM. I left the DEMs because I finally woke up. I should have left years ago, I never fit in with liberals, they were always angry and against everything but no solutions.

(this probably makes no sense so forgive me)

385 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:54:52pm

re: #290 Charles

My point is simple: when you frame this in such an absolutist negative way, you are handing victory to Obama. People don't want to hear this crap. It's self-defeating and unpleasant.


And, it does not address any real issues.

386 Shug  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:55:01pm

I have Jindal fatigue already. Bobby Jindal to me, hos face, his voice, they are an Obama second term.
He's Bob Dole without the war record and the distinguished life of service. He's Bob Dole plus the whacked out creationism.
He's a sure loser

If the GOP nominates Jindal, then I know the fix is in and that the repubs have bet a boat load of Cash on Obama winning a second term.

387 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:55:37pm

re: #334 itellu3times

You gotta accent-thu-ate the positive,
E-lim-inate the negative,
An latch on
To the affirmative
Dont mess with mister in-between!

You gotta spread joy up to the maximum,
Bring gloom down to the minimum,
An have faith ( amen! )
Or pandemoniums
Liable to walk upon the scene!

The opening song to LA Confidential, my favorite 90's movie. Its association with the movie has kept that song as on of my favorites.

388 iLikeCandy  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:55:42pm

Okay, in response to the other side of this argument, I'll say this:

We should stop saying "I want Obama to fail" or any form of that sentence, however heavily qualified. The mere fact that the MSM keeps asking it should be clue enough to not answer it.

Any time it's asked or the subject is brought up, the proper response should be, "I want America to succeed, whatever that means for Obama."

389 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:55:44pm
I didn’t spend the last eight years denouncing the Democrats for wanting President Bush to fail, just to turn around and do the same thing to Barack Obama.

I would have said that.

390 itellu3times  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:55:54pm

Had an interesting conversation with a citizen today. I asked if she'd watched Obama's press conference yesterday. She had not, but she knew that he was all for people really producing things, and not evil bankers making money from money (although we both worked in the bank), and that THEY (?) were responsible for the bad loans and people wanting stuff for free.

Republicans need "a narrative", a hook, a slogan, a song, an icon, a story, a theme, that the simple-minded (if very cute) can latch onto.

Or, to guild the lilly, you can't beat something with nothing - a fortiori, you can't beat something with just negatives.

391 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:56:07pm
392 kansas  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:56:13pm

< re: #364 Dar ul Harbarian

Maybe, but the presidential election polling said what I said. And, no, I don't have a link.

That's OK. That just means the dumb asses voted for a Democrat because they didn't know the Dems already had the House and Senate. That and that little charade that someone pulled out just before that one Presidential debate, the big financial emergency sham.

393 newsjunkie_ky  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:56:16pm

No matter how you dress it up, if you do not want the 0's socialist policies to succeed, then you want the policies to fail.
I, for one, do not want to live in a socialist country.

394 Dan G.  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:56:17pm

re: #380 Gus 802

If they do nothing but quip, they will look like ankle-biters, not leaders of the free world.

395 Mich-again  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:56:18pm

re: #369 SanFranciscoZionist

Creationist Evangelical Christians converted to hardcore Catholics. Now that is one confused person there.

396 dicentra  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:56:43pm

re: #305 Charles

Did you miss 90% of my post? I said, "Criticize him, show where he’s wrong, point out the flaws in his policies, even mock the guy for his reliance on a teleprompter."

All of this is appropriate. Saying you want him to FAIL is cutting your own throat.

Charles, I was responding to cronus, who was accusing me of tossing around empty rhetoric without having any ideas to offer. I proved him wrong.

As for the other 10% of your post, saying "I want him to FAIL" is not cutting my throat. Did agitating for Bush to FAIL in Iraq cost the Dems? Are they bleeding out through the carotid? Should I get a bucket and a mop?

Well, yes, I should, because it's GOP and its gentlemanly ways that are pumping blood out an artery.

I'm not advocating being a right SOB about confronting the Dems. I am saying that "I want Obama to FAIL" will not cost us in the long run.

Especially when he drives the economy into the ditch and enslaves us with a thousand tiny little intrusive laws. People who had the 'nads to use the word FAIL will be shown to be prescient.

And courageous.

I know you don't lack courage, Charles, but I still think you are advocating the wrong tack.

397 MandyManners  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:56:49pm

re: #335 DisgustingOratory

Im outraged Jindal says anything! Did you know hes a Creationist and went to a hardcore Catholic church?

Really? Are you kidding me?

398 Henchman Ghazi-808  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:57:05pm

OT: Insane victimization of the Oakland Cop Killer.

Defend African People's Right to Resist!
March, Candlelight Vigil and Rally for Lovelle Mixon and Family

[Link: uhurusolidarityoakland.blogspot.com...]

Un.Fricken.Believable. I am absolutely incensed.

399 Gus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:57:18pm

re: #394 Dan G.

If they do nothing but quip, they will look like ankle-biters, not leaders of the free world.

Exactly. It's like being a musician and only talking about how bad "the other player is" but never going up to play.

400 Harry Tuttle  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:57:21pm

re: #384 Afrocity

(Let me preface this by saying I am heavily medicated)

When I was a DEM. I never thought the GOP was full of kooks. I did think Rush Limbaugh was racist that is about the only thing the MSM poisoned me with and that GOP was only the party for the rich. If we educate people on our principles do you feel that we can reach some decent people and influence them beyond the MSM. I left the DEMs because I finally woke up. I should have left years ago, I never fit in with liberals, they were always angry and against everything but no solutions.

(this probably makes no sense so forgive me)

This is actually key.

Most people are in reality mostly conservative but they don't realize it.

90% of the problem is the media.

401 IslandLibertarian  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:57:26pm

re: #384 Afrocity

"(this probably makes no sense so forgive me)"

Medication sounds quite sensible to my frustrated mind at this point in history.

402 hazzyday  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:57:35pm

re: #344 iLikeCandy

First you want to build up some positive MSM bashing momentum that every American can agree with. Then once you are rolling you hand out the Obama thumps. Right now we are static.

403 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:57:39pm

re: #355 Alouette

What's the best wine?

Troll, like pork, is fairly versatile. I understand that many people recommend a Beaujolais. Riesling and Pinot Noir are also popular. With Asian sauces, beer is always good.

404 Dar ul Harbarian  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:57:44pm

re: #386 Shug

I have Jindal fatigue already. Bobby Jindal to me, hos face, his voice, they are an Obama second term.
He's Bob Dole without the war record and the distinguished life of service. He's Bob Dole plus the whacked out creationism.
He's a sure loser

If the GOP nominates Jindal, then I know the fix is in and that the repubs have bet a boat load of Cash on Obama winning a second term.

Maybe they could get Petraus....if he is a Republican.

405 Dan G.  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:57:55pm

re: #393 newsjunkie_ky

Don't confound a desire for his policies to fail with making that the central message, that you disseminate to the nation, of your party.

406 kansas  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:58:21pm

re: #384 Afrocity

(Let me preface this by saying I am heavily medicated)

When I was a DEM. I never thought the GOP was full of kooks. I did think Rush Limbaugh was racist that is about the only thing the MSM poisoned me with and that GOP was only the party for the rich. If we educate people on our principles do you feel that we can reach some decent people and influence them beyond the MSM. I left the DEMs because I finally woke up. I should have left years ago, I never fit in with liberals, they were always angry and against everything but no solutions.

(this probably makes no sense so forgive me)

It makes sense. Do you still think Limbaugh is racist?

407 Mich-again  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:58:26pm
This user is blocked.

No. of comments posted: 0

That is no small feat.

408 Gearhead  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:58:29pm

re: #384 Afrocity

(Let me preface this by saying I am heavily medicated)

When I was a DEM. I never thought the GOP was full of kooks. I did think Rush Limbaugh was racist that is about the only thing the MSM poisoned me with and that GOP was only the party for the rich. If we educate people on our principles do you feel that we can reach some decent people and influence them beyond the MSM. I left the DEMs because I finally woke up. I should have left years ago, I never fit in with liberals, they were always angry and against everything but no solutions.

(this probably makes no sense so forgive me)

It makes perfect sense. Hope everything went well today.

409 pink freud  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:58:37pm

re: #398 BigPapa

OT: Insane victimization of the Oakland Cop Killer.

Defend African People's Right to Resist!
March, Candlelight Vigil and Rally for Lovelle Mixon and Family

[Link: uhurusolidarityoakland.blogspot.com...]

Un.Fricken.Believable. I am absolutely incensed.

Latest news is his DNA came back a match on the rape of a 12 year old girl. Sorry no link, I heard it on the news on KSFO radio.

410 bryantms  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:58:37pm

Sorry for joining late.

I do agree that saying you want the President to fail is extreme. I always want our great country to succeed. However, I do believe that it is okay saying that I do not want the policies that Obama ran on (the far left socialist-leaning ones) to succeed. Now of course I wouldn't frame it as stupidly as "I want him to fail." That achieves nothing. I agree that we should point out the many flaws in his policies. I think Fred Thompson tried to do this during that CNN clip. He just happened to use the word fail.

411 NYCHardhat  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:58:43pm

re: #407 Mich-again

That is no small feat.

Who was that?

412 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:58:58pm

re: #233 mijacat

Well some sad sack moby flack
with an Aryan attack
got the stick on the Barack thread last night

/Bruuuuce

413 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:59:05pm
414 Dr. Shalit  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:59:16pm

re: #355 Alouette

What's the best wine?

Alouette -

Richard's Wild Irish Rose - drink enough of it and the rest doesn't matter.

-S-

415 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:59:17pm

re: #407 Mich-again

This user is blocked.

No. of comments posted: 0

Who was that? One of those stealth dingers?

416 NelsFree  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:59:17pm

re: #361 Thanos

Yes, thank you Thanos. The GOP must clearly and systematically present the Conservative version of how Obama should proceed, and be able to provide examples of when it worked in the past. When Obama's policies fail, Conservatives should be ready to remind everyone what should have been done.

417 MandyManners  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:59:22pm

re: #328 EasyLiving1

Gov. Jindal was more eloquent, inspiring, and convincing that Charles gives him credit. Were Charles summary apt, Gov. Jindal would more likely be Dr. Jindal, head of the Creationist Studies program at LSU.

A bigger problem than any hysteria about "GOP Talking Points" and whatnot is this: Gov. Jindal needs to know how to convince those of use here tonight how to help him defeat Obama in 2012.

Then we gotta convince lotsa other people.

Let's get to work.

Why don't you just join ACORN and work for FCBBHO?

418 Gus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:59:34pm

Here's a good example of non-performance:

Republican Earmarks Taint Spending Criticism
By Kyle Trygstad

While Republicans criticize President Obama for not sticking to a campaign promise to rid government of wasteful spending, the GOP itself is finding trouble getting back to the kind of fiscal discipline its members say disappeared over the last several years they controlled Congress.

Republicans in Congress vilified Democrats for both the overall size and the number of earmarks attached to the $410 billion omnibus appropriations bill that Obama signed Wednesday. However, despite the rhetoric, Republicans requested 40 percent of the earmarks and ranked among the highest pork barrel spenders.

419 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:59:35pm

re: #397 MandyManners

I'm gonna take a wild guess and say that post you quoted was intended to make those who oppose religion being taught as science look bad. Like some kind of creationist moby.

Just a guess, though.

420 Harry Tuttle  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:59:38pm

re: #390 itellu3times

Had an interesting conversation with a citizen today. I asked if she'd watched Obama's press conference yesterday. She had not, but she knew that he was all for people really producing things, and not evil bankers making money from money (although we both worked in the bank), and that THEY (?) were responsible for the bad loans and people wanting stuff for free.

Republicans need "a narrative", a hook, a slogan, a song, an icon, a story, a theme, that the simple-minded (if very cute) can latch onto.

Or, to guild the lilly, you can't beat something with nothing - a fortiori, you can't beat something with just negatives.

Yea I got a haircut this past weekend and chatting with the young girl the economy came up and she said how she thought the large corporations should be forced to pay up and give up their "large pensions".

She was cutting my hair so I just left it at that.

421 Shug  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:59:39pm

re: #407 Mich-again

That is no small feat.

No comments
Karma -2

talk about being born under a bad sign

422 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:59:45pm

re: #396 dicentra

I know you don't lack courage, Charles, but I still think you are advocating the wrong tack.

Let's see where this wonderful strategy gets the GOP, shall we? I have no hesitation at all in predicting that this is a major losing strategy.

Get ready for 8 years of Barack Obama, if this stupid negativity is all the GOP can bring to the table.

423 irongrampa  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:59:52pm

I want to see this incompetent marxist to fail abjectly, utterly, and soon. The quicker this occurs, the quicker we can begin to undo the damage already done.
And I hope the backlash from his failure insures that the secular progressives in the Democrat Party wander through the wastelands for decades to come.
Further, if this position incurs wrath or condemnation then so be it.

424 Desert Dog  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 7:59:59pm

re: #404 Dar ul Harbarian

Maybe they could get Petraus....if he is a Republican.

He's a smart guy and will probably opt to not get into that line of work.

425 Dan G.  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:00:00pm

re: #399 Gus 802

Nice simile. GOP: "Yea, he plays the guitar like a 3 year old." Sane Person: "Let's hear you play." GOP:

426 DistantThunder  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:00:04pm

Obama's trying to raise my taxes - I want him to fail.
Obama's is trying to limit my charitable deductions - I want him to fail.
Obama's trying to change my country permanently - I want him to fail.
Obama is attempting to enslave my children with debt as far as the eye can see - I want him to fail.
Obama wants to create a state for the war-mongering Palestinians - I want him to fail.
The EU thinks Obama is taking us on the road to hell - and they want him to fail at that too.

It's a punch through the media fog way of highlighting the issues. Obama must be stopped before he does irreparable damage to our economy, and our national defense.

Obama is a menace to the USA.

427 Mich-again  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:00:21pm

re: #398 BigPapa

Un.Fricken.Believable. I am absolutely incensed.

Might as well say "Hey Everyone! Lets have a riot!"

Police are supposed to show up for crowd control? That can't end well.

428 Wendya  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:00:22pm

re: #315 Dan G.

Personally, I blame the GOP for Obama. Obama was elected due to the void left by the unprincipled, theocratic, direction that the GOP has taken.


I'll agree with unprincipled but theocratic?

If you know anything about our history, you'd know the last decade has probably been the least "theocratic" time since our inception. The "rabid religious right has taken over the GOP" is a leftist talking point that has been around since Reagan. As an agnostic, I can say I do not fear the so-called "religious right". They are not the rottweiler that the left has made them out to be. More like an old, toothless dog.

429 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:00:24pm

re: #396 dicentra

As for the other 10% of your post, saying "I want him to FAIL" is not cutting my throat. Did agitating for Bush to FAIL in Iraq cost the Dems? Are they bleeding out through the carotid? Should I get a bucket and a mop?

What part of the msm carrying their water but not ours don't you get? And your tu quo que isn't going to work. The left getting to behave this way doesn't hurt them because the msm doesn't expose it, but if we behave like they did you better believe it will be used against us.

430 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:00:38pm

re: #395 Mich-again

Creationist Evangelical Christians converted to hardcore Catholics. Now that is one confused person there.

Jindal? Possibly.

431 Dan G.  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:00:47pm

re: #415 Alouette

No, his one comment go the axe.

432 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:01:06pm

re: #383 father_of_10

Define fail?

We fall victim of another attack? That kind of fail?

The financial system goes the way of Zimbabwe? That kind of fail?

A few of his policies don't get acted on? Is that fail?

What do you mean fail?

433 Randall Gross  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:01:20pm

re: #396 dicentra

Charles, I was responding to cronus, who was accusing me of tossing around empty rhetoric without having any ideas to offer. I proved him wrong.

As for the other 10% of your post, saying "I want him to FAIL" is not cutting my throat. Did agitating for Bush to FAIL in Iraq cost the Dems? Are they bleeding out through the carotid? Should I get a bucket and a mop?

Well, yes, I should, because it's GOP and its gentlemanly ways that are pumping blood out an artery.

Yes, the left so visibly wanting Bush to fail in the war in Iraq cost them the election in 2004. If you don't believe it, go look at the margins again.

434 kansas  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:01:31pm

re: #418 Gus 802

Here's a good example of non-performance:

Republican Earmarks Taint Spending Criticism
By Kyle Trygstad

A good example of making your enemies pay for doing what you are allowed, even expected to do. Its OK for Dems to earmark, screw everything in sight, get stinking drunk, but the Republicans? Not so much.

435 Gus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:01:36pm

re: #425 Dan G.

Nice simile. GOP: "Yea, he plays the guitar like a 3 year old." Sane Person: "Let's hear you play." GOP:

There you go. But do they "play." Look at the article I just posted. 40% of the earmarks came from Republicans. So when they do "play" they play almost as badly as the Democrats when it comes to spending.

436 dicentra  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:01:37pm

re: #381 Sharmuta

This is weak and an utter distortion of my point. I'm not advocating not fighting 0bama, I'm advocating a better way of doing such over name calling and school yard antics.

Saying "I want Obama to FAIL" is not name-calling. It is not school-yard antics. Busing people out to the homes of AIG employees to intimidate them is school-yard antics. Appellations such as "BusHitler" is name-calling.

I'm not advocating either. I'm just not advocating that we condemn Rush and Fred for daring to use the word FAIL in public. There's nothing wrong with what they said, so don't act like it.

437 rawmuse  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:01:53pm

I admit (since I don't have cable) I do not get the fire hose of MSM media bilge, day in and day out, so, are they still pounding on this meme? I guess they are, judging by this thread.

They are trying to get us to eat our own, and it must be working.

438 itellu3times  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:01:55pm

re: #391 taxfreekiller

Christina Romer

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Head nurse of Obama's Economic Advisers.

sleep well while you are able,,

tick tock

I dunno, nothing too bad there, except the location "Bezerkley" and maybe the picture, but I wouldn't be that shallow.

439 Mich-again  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:01:57pm

re: #434 kansas

Ha. You said taint.

440 fish  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:02:32pm

Well, its bed time for me. Take care Lizards!

441 DistantThunder  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:02:36pm

I think we should use "RESPECT THE TAXPAYER" as our rallying cry.

What do we want? RESPECT
When do we want it? NOW
Who's going to give it to us? ......

442 Gus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:03:06pm

re: #434 kansas

A good example of making your enemies pay for doing what you are allowed, even expected to do. Its OK for Dems to earmark, screw everything in sight, get stinking drunk, but the Republicans? Not so much.

That's what I hoped for. Marginally better perhaps but I would like to see them take a stronger stand and vote along principle.

443 Midwestprof  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:03:25pm

Came to the thread late but still want to throw in my 2¢ worth. I want Obama to fail in his efforts to EU-type socialize the U.S. I've mentioned this before: my wife came here as a political exile from Eastern Europe--one of the old Soviet satellite countries. There are others here in the U.S. from the old Soviet Union that she remains in contact with. They are worried (scared sh*tless) because they see Soviet-type socialism emerging in the U.S. driven by HopeNChange and his minions. And they also see a populace that doesn't seem to care because they're in puppy love with a slogan: Hope & Change!

444 CynicalConservative  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:03:26pm

Meh...

445 HelloDare  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:03:40pm

If the press were not in the tank for Obama, this whole "I want Obama to fail" thing would be much less of a problem.

James Carville wanted Bush to fail. And he was much more venomous and less nuanced when he said it. I don't remember it being a big deal.

Wasn't it Mrs Bush who said something like, with the press the way it is, I'm amazed that Republicans win any elections.

446 Sosigado  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:03:51pm

Why are some people here so worried about what those who are diametrically and vehemently opposed to their core principles and beliefs think of them?

447 Afrocity  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:03:53pm

re: #406 kansas

It makes sense. Do you still think Limbaugh is racist?

I dont know. To be honest he seems to think that most of us are victims and want handouts. I guess I can understand this but there are many hardworking blacks who contribute to society. I have tried to call in but cant get past snerdly. I think Rush is brilliant and has Obama's number better than most.

Please know that I would like me people of color to join but you have to trust that we dont want GOP to change. You have to trust us,

448 kansas  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:03:58pm

re: #439 Mich-again

Ha. You said taint.

What?

449 Wendya  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:04:02pm

re: #356 Dan G.

Another question for the contrarians out there. Do you honestly believe that the American public is so stupid as to not be able to judge that Obama's policies are destructive?

They failed to judge his character and his legislative history before they pulled the lever back in November.

450 NelsFree  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:04:08pm

re: #377 huckfunn

Personally, I'm not dwelling on, "I want Obama to fail", I'm thinking about how cutting spending, cutting taxes, and getting the government out of the private sector would make things better. Say, let's change the thread to, "What is the Conservative Alternative to Obama's agenda?"

452 Randall Gross  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:04:26pm

re: #416 NelsFree

Yes, thank you Thanos. The GOP must clearly and systematically present the Conservative version of how Obama should proceed, and be able to provide examples of when it worked in the past. When Obama's policies fail, Conservatives should be ready to remind everyone what should have been done.

Heck, the conservatives should be countering every proposal before it fails with a workable reasonable appealing alternative. I've seen Jack and Squat about that. Our talking point today should be about how the Dems in Congress took away the promised Obama tax credit, not this failure shit.

453 DistantThunder  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:04:32pm

How about: We want Obama to ABORT his plans for the socialization of America? I'm kidding.

454 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:04:40pm

re: #382 Charles

Cool. See ya. Sorry, but you don't get to leave your dramatic goodbye comment.

And it was his first comment too. Since the troll had barely even hatched yet I'll going to try to saute its Buttocks, they are very tender, not Gamey at all. :D

455 hazzyday  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:04:45pm

re: #398 BigPapa

OT: Insane victimization of the Oakland Cop Killer.

Defend African People's Right to Resist!
March, Candlelight Vigil and Rally for Lovelle Mixon and Family

[Link: uhurusolidarityoakland.blogspot.com...]

Un.Fricken.Believable. I am absolutely incensed.

That guy is a major dope. He contributes to the problem he describes more than he thinks he does.

456 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:04:54pm

I said I wanted him to flail.

Isn't he doing a great job?

457 dicentra  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:05:11pm

re: #422 Charles

Let's see where this wonderful strategy gets the GOP, shall we?

As opposed to the "Mr. Nice Guy" strategy that we've been using all along?

Get ready for 8 years of Barack Obama, if this stupid negativity is all the GOP can bring to the table.

Rush and Fred are not the GOP. And it's only 60 days into Oprompta's term. Americans have short memories: this whole kerfuffle will be forgotten by November 2012 and you know it.

Besides, are you saying that it's not possible to say "FAIL" and also devise a good alternate strategy? That it's not possible to be "negative" and "positive" at the same time?

458 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:05:14pm

re: #398 BigPapa

OT: Insane victimization of the Oakland Cop Killer.

Defend African People's Right to Resist!
March, Candlelight Vigil and Rally for Lovelle Mixon and Family

[Link: uhurusolidarityoakland.blogspot.com...]

Un.Fricken.Believable. I am absolutely incensed.

It's Uhuru. They're assholes. If you think about them too much, it raises your blood pressure.

The community support from the real people in the real community has been great out here, though. Look at the pictures in the local papers. Some of them just make me cry.

There was a photograph of a woman who came out to help decorate a sidewalk shrine for the officers who were killed. One of them had worked on the case when her son was murdered. I went all wobbly.

Looks like the shooter was linked by DNA and a sketch artist's work to at least one, maybe six, rapes in East Oakland.

The flags at my school have been half-mast all week, and we've been praying for the officer's families before classes.

459 Shug  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:05:35pm

When the column rises
Look up thread
Chances are
A troll is dead

460 Dan G.  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:05:52pm

re: #428 Wendya

I'll agree with unprincipled but theocratic?

[...] The "rabid religious right has taken over the GOP" is a leftist talking point that has been around since Reagan. As an agnostic, I can say I do not fear the so-called "religious right". [...]

That argument may've had merit prior to the Schiavo affair, the Faith-Based Initiatives, and the fact that those who are being spotlighted (by the GOP, mind you) as the leadership of the GOP are anti-science on religious grounds... and not just in their personal lives, but as a part of the agenda that they're passing into law (i.e. in other peoples' lives).

461 Harry Tuttle  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:05:56pm

re: #447 Afrocity

I dont know. To be honest he seems to think that most of us are victims and want handouts. I guess I can understand this but there are many hardworking blacks who contribute to society. I have tried to call in but cant get past snerdly. I think Rush is brilliant and has Obama's number better than most.

Please know that I would like me people of color to join but you have to trust that we dont want GOP to change. You have to trust us,

Hey if you get on the air let us all know so we can listen!

You should try Mark Levin's show.

462 tedzilla99  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:06:01pm

Big difference between democrats wanting the war to fail, and thereby losing American lives, and people who understand that PBO failing means that we get to keep our freedom. Every policy that Barry espouses is anti-freedom and will give us Cuba/Venezuela/North Korea. It's so easy to see the difference I can't believe this is even debatable.

463 Wendya  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:06:17pm

re: #443 Midwestprof

Came to the thread late but still want to throw in my 2¢ worth. I want Obama to fail in his efforts to EU-type socialize the U.S. I've mentioned this before: my wife came here as a political exile from Eastern Europe--one of the old Soviet satellite countries. There are others here in the U.S. from the old Soviet Union that she remains in contact with. They are worried (scared sh*tless) because they see Soviet-type socialism emerging in the U.S. driven by HopeNChange and his minions. And they also see a populace that doesn't seem to care because they're in puppy love with a slogan: Hope & Change!

There are a lot of people in this country who would sit back silently without calling out the inherent evils of soviet style socialism because they've been bullied by the left every time they've tried in the past.

464 NYCHardhat  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:06:18pm

I am so fucking angry right now. Goodnight. I might get myself in trouble.

465 MandyManners  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:06:19pm

re: #419 Slumbering Behemoth

I'm gonna take a wild guess and say that post you quoted was intended to make those who oppose religion being taught as science look bad. Like some kind of creationist moby.

Just a guess, though.

Ya' think?

(Sorry. I'm just a wee-bit jaded. I need to listen to my No. 451 a few times.)

466 Gearhead  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:06:19pm

re: #459 Shug

When the column rises
Look up thread
Chances are
A troll is dead

...Burma Shave

467 Dar ul Harbarian  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:06:23pm

re: #459 Shug

When the column rises
Look up thread
Chances are
A troll is dead

Is that from Beowulf?

468 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:06:50pm

re: #436 dicentra

Yes- it IS school yard antics because it doesn't solve anything, it only makes it worse! Now we're being bludgeoned with this and we still don't have any sort of agenda. Besides- talking heads say outrageous things to get attention. This is all fine and good for them, but how is it really stopping 0bama? It's not. What would help is a counter-proposal or two. Something tangible. Now we're playing defense, defending a comment, and not working for something that will really make Americans think we're the party they should look to for solutions.

469 Bloodnok  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:07:02pm

Bill Clinton "failed" in many of his policy wishes in his first term and the House and Senate were lost during that time as well. He still got reelected. It is the GOP that needs to do the work here. 0bama screwing up will probably not be enough.

470 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:07:18pm

re: #457 dicentra

Rush and Fred are not the GOP. And it's only 60 days into Oprompta's term. Americans have short memories: this whole kerfuffle will be forgotten by November 2012 and you know it.

Besides, are you saying that it's not possible to say "FAIL" and also devise a good alternate strategy? That it's not possible to be "negative" and "positive" at the same time?

You must have missed the link to Bobby Jindal above. Jindal is clearly being groomed as the GOP's great hope, and he came out to defend wishing for Obama to fail. When Rush Limbaugh, Bobby Jindal, and every pundit on Fox News spout the same talking points, you can be very sure this is not a coincidence.

471 traderjoe9  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:07:19pm
Youtube Video

Jewlarious.

472 Wishing  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:07:20pm

re: #451 MandyManners

Thank you, Mandy. I needed that.

473 Shug  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:07:26pm

Gamey Buttocks
On the grill
Stinky Beaumont
Shoots to kill


Burma shave

474 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:07:32pm

re: #409 pink freud

Latest news is his DNA came back a match on the rape of a 12 year old girl. Sorry no link, I heard it on the news on KSFO radio.

Cop-killer suspected of raping 12-year-old.

475 traderjoe9  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:07:33pm

re: #471 traderjoe9

OT btw. Sorry.

476 Henchman Ghazi-808  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:07:36pm

re: #458 SanFranciscoZionist

It's Uhuru. They're assholes. If you think about them too much, it raises your blood pressure.

You're right. It's hard to take the high road and not let it get to you every once in a while. The whole Oscar Grant thing started getting to me, then Stimulus, now the pitchforks for AIG...... not funny lately. Too many idiots that vote.

477 kansas  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:08:55pm

re: #447 Afrocity

I dont know. To be honest he seems to think that most of us are victims and want handouts. I guess I can understand this but there are many hardworking blacks who contribute to society. I have tried to call in but cant get past snerdly. I think Rush is brilliant and has Obama's number better than most.

Please know that I would like me people of color to join but you have to trust that we dont want GOP to change. You have to trust us,

Well the GOP could use a little change. Hardworking people who contribute to society are much needed.

478 Gus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:08:56pm

Just wanted to say that I think it's OK for us to say we want Obama to fail -- as pedestrian observers and commentators. However, a politician needs to be more careful with his or her words. Perhaps I am wrong.

479 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:09:00pm

Hey, 3times...I always wondered what the phrase "gild the lily" meant. You putting it into a post reminded me to look it up. Thanks.

480 iLikeCandy  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:09:12pm

re: #422 Charles

Let's see where this wonderful strategy gets the GOP, shall we? I have no hesitation at all in predicting that this is a major losing strategy.

Get ready for 8 years of Barack Obama, if this stupid negativity is all the GOP can bring to the table.

The problem is, we bring much more, but we've got no control of the message. I've been trumpeting Paul Ryan all through this thread. He was wonderful today, talking about the American character, its resourcefulness and independence -- totally positive! But did Katie Couric give him 30 seconds?

I know some people here have legitimate objections to Sarah Palin, but you've got to admit, she's not negative. I'd love to hear her making a speech -- any speech! about how great America is, but you can be sure it would be ridiculed and snippetted and delivered to Robert Gibbs for some slick, high-handed dismissal.

You don't really think that "all the GOP can bring to the table" is "stupid negativity"? Are you buying the MSM's message about the GOP?

481 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:09:15pm
482 dicentra  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:09:19pm

re: #429 Sharmuta

What part of the msm carrying their water but not ours don't you get? And your tu quoque isn't going to work. The left getting to behave this way doesn't hurt them because the msm doesn't expose it, but if we behave like they did you better believe it will be used against us.

Not. Advocating. Acting. Like. Them.

And I've understood the MSM's bias since I was in diapers. So don't accuse me of not getting it.

Furthermore, I did not present a tu quoque argument. I was presenting evidence that negativity does not necessarily mean losing at the polls.

You guys seem really gun-shy. Conservatives have allowed the MSM to control the narrative for a long, long time without adequately fighting back, without demostrating in clear deliniation what they're up to.

Maybe we should stop guarding our words and say what we mean, then call thunder from the sky when they mess with us. It can be done, but not if you think it can't.

483 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:09:31pm

re: #446 Sosigado

Why are some people here so worried about what those who are diametrically and vehemently opposed to their core principles and beliefs think of them?

I'm not. I'm worried this party is throwing opportunity away with both hands. I want a real agenda to be able to show the moderates and independents I know that the GOP is the better choice, not some overly heated rhetoric I have to explain away. I'd rather be explain why the GOP agenda (that we don't have) is better for America.

484 NelsFree  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:09:59pm

re: #438 itellu3times

I dunno, nothing too bad there, except the location "Bezerkley" and maybe the picture, but I wouldn't be that shallow.

I seem to recall that she was a member of a Socialist organization, and the day she was nominated, the org's website washed off all traces of her.

485 rawmuse  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:10:00pm

Who is the GOP strong horse who is secular humanist and pro science?
Does that person exist?
Or are they already in office and voting with the Democrats 90 percent of the time?
I am asking, because I really don't know, not trying to be a smart ass.

486 Occasional Reader  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:10:04pm

re: #468 Sharmuta

Now we're being bludgeoned with this

We'll be bludgeoned with practically anything we say, other than "yes, Obama".

487 MandyManners  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:10:21pm

re: #472 Wishing

Thank you, Mandy. I needed that.

You're welcome.

I *still* cannot listen to that song without shedding a few tears.

488 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:11:01pm

re: #328 EasyLiving1

Gov. Jindal was more eloquent, inspiring, and convincing that Charles gives him credit. Were Charles summary apt, Gov. Jindal would more likely be Dr. Jindal, head of the Creationist Studies program at LSU.

A bigger problem than any hysteria about "GOP Talking Points" and whatnot is this: Gov. Jindal needs to know how to convince those of use here tonight how to help him defeat Obama in 2012.

Then we gotta convince lotsa other people.

Let's get to work.

Jindal will NEVER recive my vote. It is a matter of adamantine principle with me that I will NEVER cast a presidential vote for someone who signed a Disco-Institute-authored stealth creationism-in-public-school-science-class bill into law while the governor of a state. PERIOD.

489 rain of lead  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:11:01pm

re: #290 Charles

My point is simple: when you frame this in such an absolutist negative way, you are handing victory to Obama. People don't want to hear this crap. It's self-defeating and unpleasant.

so true.
Rush has been saying this for years, tell people what you are For!
people will respond to a positive message, dump the rinos pimpslap the
rest of the wennies in the gop and get all of them singing from the same
choirbook and just hit the same positive message over and over and over and over and maybe, just maybe enough will sink in to make a difference

490 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:11:04pm

re: #398 BigPapa

OT: Insane victimization of the Oakland Cop Killer.

Defend African People's Right to Resist!
March, Candlelight Vigil and Rally for Lovelle Mixon and Family

[Link: uhurusolidarityoakland.blogspot.com...]

Un.Fricken.Believable. I am absolutely incensed.

Evil. No other word for it. The Black Panther movement reborn. Bad times, folks, bad times.

491 hazzyday  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:11:04pm

re: #447 Afrocity

I dont know. To be honest he seems to think that most of us are victims and want handouts. I guess I can understand this but there are many hardworking blacks who contribute to society. I have tried to call in but cant get past snerdly. I think Rush is brilliant and has Obama's number better than most.

Please know that I would like me people of color to join but you have to trust that we dont want GOP to change. You have to trust us,

Don't you think Hannity should interview you? Person on the street sort of thing. I think he has a minion reading here.

492 Randall Gross  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:11:12pm

re: #482 dicentra

But as I pointed out it did mean losing for the Dems in 2004.

493 dicentra  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:11:58pm

re: #470 Charles

When Rush Limbaugh, Bobby Jindal, and every pundit on Fox News spout the same talking points, you can be very sure this is not a coincidence.

Fair enough. Jindal is in the GOP. But you also can't accuse him of not offering an alternative, either.

(And no, I don't want creationism and ID taught in the schools either.)

Jindal can articulate small-government positions and he does so whenever given the chance.

Just because the MSM is acting like FAIL is all the GOP has to offer doesn't mean you have to.

Playing their game, remember?

494 Dar ul Harbarian  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:12:09pm

re: #478 Gus 802

Just wanted to say that I think it's OK for us to say we want Obama to fail -- as pedestrian observers and commentators. However, a politician needs to be more careful with his or her words. Perhaps I am wrong.

We're all bozos on this bus.
But I expect better from elected officials than to amplify and echo blog vitriol.

495 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:12:15pm

re: #482 dicentra

Maybe we should stop guarding our words and say what we mean, then call thunder from the sky when they mess with us. It can be done, but not if you think it can't.

It's not that I don't think it can be done, I just think we need a superior message, and the "fail" meme ain't it. How about a positive agenda?

496 Occasional Reader  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:12:23pm

re: #470 Charles

You must have missed the link to Bobby Jindal above. Jindal is clearly being groomed as the GOP's great hope, and he came out to defend wishing for Obama to fail.

Well, he said:

"My answer to the question is very simple: 'Do you want the president to fail?' It depends on what he is trying to do."

Quite a sensible reply, in my opinion.

497 Gus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:13:06pm

re: #494 Dar ul Harbarian

We're all bozos on this bus.
But I expect better from elected officials than to amplify and echo blog vitriol.

Do you think they'll listen? The Republican party that is. I get the feeling they won't.

498 abolitionist  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:13:06pm

re: #86 Shug

Cap and Trade
Universal healthcare
Constitutional rights for captured taliban fighters
tax increases for my family and millions of others
goodbye mortgage interest deduction
Billions for ACORN
War on Terror now called something PC

[deleted]

How about:
Bankrupt the coal industry (campaign promise)
Energy costs will skyrocket (campaign promise)
Universal healthcare, EXCEPT for veterans
Constitutional rights for differently-citizenshipped US policy opponents
White House management of census
Global Poverty Tax means no more messy oil-for-food scandals in the UN
Enemies? Hahahaha. Cuba, Venezuela and Iran are tiny countries. Things will be groovy just as soon as my books outsell the Koran and Mein Kampf worldwide, ok?

499 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:13:07pm

re: #482 dicentra

You guys seem really gun-shy.

It's not stupid to be "gun-shy" if you can't stop shooting yourself in the foot.

500 Randall Gross  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:13:29pm

Electoral margins from 2004:

Electoral vote Bush 286 Kerry 251

501 Afrocity  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:13:38pm

re: #491 hazzyday

Don't you think Hannity should interview you? Person on the street sort of thing. I think he has a minion reading here.

Tried to call in on Hannity and the line is busy. During the election I want to tell him that I am the 2% black that did not vote for Obama. I hate that being lumped together you know. I hate people talking to me like I voted for him and I agree with them. It is so frustrating.

502 pollster  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:14:03pm

Oh, please. Now we gotta get a hate-on for Fred Thompson too?

I hope Obama fails. I do have respect for the office of the presidency of our great country, and that's why I will not call Mr. Obama "Chimpy," or send out Christmas letters filled with his verbal gaffes or vile cartoons about him, as some of my liberal acquaintances did for the eight years of the Bush presidency.

But neither will I indulge in a limited modified hangout and mince words about what his "success" would mean for all of us who love America and agree that we're the all-time lottery winners by being its citizens. He is dismantling our nation and remaking it to comply with his lifelong dream (read his autobiography, if you haven't) and the fantasies of his companions of the far left. If he does not fail, we are all sunk. Our nation will be the failed one, and that's what matters.

Let's get some hair on our chests (figuratively, of course; I'm a woman) and stop this delicate mincing. The media will crucify us whatever we say, and I don't think the truth will alienate independents. Weighing every word so we offend no one must be rule #1 in the Republican Playbook. It's not working. If we're going to succumb to socialism, as it appears, then let us show a little fight on the way down.

503 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:14:04pm

re: #486 Occasional Reader

We'll be bludgeoned with practically anything we say, other than "yes, Obama".

True, but I'd rather they try to bludgeon a more positive agenda and look like asses for doing so instead of us looking like asses for defending this comment.

504 jayzee  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:14:14pm

I think I found a post from Charles that I disagree with. The Dems wanted Bush to fail because he was a Republican. They hated Bush just because he was Bush. They supported his policies until they didn't and then demonized the man. I am against The Dems' and Obama's policies that will truly devastate this country. I want those policies to fail, and I don't think there is anything wrong with that. Truthfully I think most Americans want those policies to fail which is why Obama tried so hard to mislead the people when he was was running for office. Remember fiscal responsibility? Tax cuts? Freedom? Pro Israel agenda? What happened to those promises?

505 Bloodnok  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:14:14pm

re: #499 Charles

It's not stupid to be "gun-shy" if you can't stop shooting yourself in the foot.

Lao Stinky couldn't have said it better.

506 Silvergirl  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:14:26pm

re: #384 Afrocity

(Let me preface this by saying I am heavily medicated)

When I was a DEM. I never thought the GOP was full of kooks. I did think Rush Limbaugh was racist that is about the only thing the MSM poisoned me with and that GOP was only the party for the rich. If we educate people on our principles do you feel that we can reach some decent people and influence them beyond the MSM. I left the DEMs because I finally woke up. I should have left years ago, I never fit in with liberals, they were always angry and against everything but no solutions.

(this probably makes no sense so forgive me)

You make infinite sense. Nobody likes to be around people who are always angry and who offer no solutions to the many problems they see everywhere around them. Conservatives don't want to be in that camp. If we pitch our tent there, we're asking for its collapse when all the stakes holding it firm are pulled up one at a time. Name one stake radical social issues stance, name another scathing criticism ("We want him to fail") of the President, name another the Alex Jones stake, name the others after the failings you see among liberals that must never be taken on by conservatives.

507 kansas  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:14:29pm

re: #501 Afrocity

Tried to call in on Hannity and the line is busy. During the election I want to tell him that I am the 2% black that did not vote for Obama. I hate that being lumped together you know. I hate people talking to me like I voted for him and I agree with them. It is so frustrating.

Hey, try being from Kansas. Talk about sterotypes. : )

508 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:14:37pm

re: #476 BigPapa

You're right. It's hard to take the high road and not let it get to you every once in a while. The whole Oscar Grant thing started getting to me, then Stimulus, now the pitchforks for AIG...... not funny lately. Too many idiots that vote.

I know the feeling. But we've got good people out there still.

509 Occasional Reader  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:14:55pm

re: #499 Charles

It's not stupid to be "gun-shy" if you can't stop shooting yourself in the foot.

GUN THREAD!

/

510 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:15:00pm

re: #335 DisgustingOratory

Im outraged Jindal says anything! Did you know hes a Creationist and went to a hardcore Catholic church?

That's not the biggie; the biggie was signing that fucking Disco-Institute-authored stealth creationism bill into law.

As far as I'm concerned, with that single stroke of his pen, Jindal disqualified himself for this nation's presidency. And I am far from alone in that opinion, even among conservatives.

511 jorline  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:15:12pm

re: #454 Dark_Falcon

And it was his first comment too. Since the troll had barely even hatched yet I'll going to try to saute its Buttocks, they are very tender, not Gamey at all. :D

Try it with this..."Miracle Fruit"...everything is sweet!

How are ya tonight Dark?

512 rawmuse  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:15:14pm

Meanwhile, the termites continue to eat our foundation.

Keep your eye on this one. These will be the Obama youth, coming to your door.
It even got some GOP votes.

513 David Simon  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:15:45pm

re: #420 Harry Tuttle

Yea I got a haircut this past weekend and chatting with the young girl the economy came up and she said how she thought the large corporations should be forced to pay up and give up their "large pensions".

She was cutting my hair so I just left it at that.

Unless it was the hair in your nether regions, I wouldn't have let it go.

Sometimes people aren't moonbats per se; they're just uneducated and need some guidance.

514 eastvillageinfidel  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:15:52pm

re: #500 Thanos

But didn't Kerry get "swift-boated" ?

515 Dar ul Harbarian  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:15:56pm

re: #497 Gus 802

Do you think they'll listen? The Republican party that is. I get the feeling they won't.

I would bet on folly over wisdom on most days.

516 NelsFree  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:15:58pm

re: #452 Thanos

Heck, the conservatives should be countering every proposal before it fails with a workable reasonable appealing alternative.

The sooner the Conservatives present the alternative, the better. Excellent point. Now, I think I'm going to get some ice cream. Good night all.

517 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:15:59pm
518 avanti  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:16:08pm

re: #319 FrogMarch

I'm puzzled why some idiot like Alex Jones suddenly cares. but seriously, the thing is a tad scary. Mandatory service? yikes.

No mandatory service requirement in the bill, just another stupid committee to ponder how some sort of mandatory service plan would go over. Hint, like a lead balloon.

519 Dan G.  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:16:10pm

re: #449 Wendya

There's more to it than that. While I'm sure that there were some who were dreary eyed in love with Obama; those people that I know that voted for Obama was because they judged that he wasn't as bad as the GOP's offerings. Most were going to vote for McCain because they said he was trustworthy and more experienced than Obama. With the choice of Palin, the GOP shot itself in the foot, because they couldn't use the VERY strong argument about his experience anymore (the media smear-job notwithstanding). Personally, I don't know whether Palin would've foisted her religious ideas on the country, but I do know that she wasn't experienced enough for the job. More, experience than Obama? Sure, but that's not good enough.

Also, while Obama's faults were not sufficiently revealed to many, the GOP was not a shining pinnacle of American Principles; if they were, even without Obama's shady associations reaching the light of day the GOP would have won the day.

520 garycooper  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:16:17pm

Thanks for another blast of rationality, Charles. I've been saying the same thing for weeks, even though sometimes I'm flabbergasted at the wrongheadedness of Obama's policies, and I'm pretty certain they are going to hurt the country. I don't want the country to suffer anymore than it's going to anyway, and I want my kids to have some shred left of the same American Dream that provided my family a great life so far, full of hard work and good times.

While I greatly respected Bush's resolute determination in the WoT, he did less than nothing for my home state of Michigan, economically. He wasn't any kind of fiscal conservative, either. I didn't agree with him on some other issues, either. I'm not a born-again Christian. I'm an agnostic, and skeptical about everything.

521 huckfunn  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:16:28pm

re: #450 NelsFree

Personally, I'm not dwelling on, "I want Obama to fail", I'm thinking about how cutting spending, cutting taxes, and getting the government out of the private sector would make things better. Say, let's change the thread to, "What is the Conservative Alternative to Obama's agenda?"

I agree. While the thought crosses my mind, I don't dwell on it. Dwelling on the negative only creates more negativity. I feel that Obama's policies need to be attacked; not him personally. The attack on his policies should be loaded with positive alternatives.

522 Sosigado  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:16:36pm

And in other happy news, it looks like the NORKS are really clenching their fists with that stinkin' rocket launch threat. Hillary is composing a strongly worded letter.

523 Pupdawg  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:16:39pm

re: #28 Afrocity

Hannity just had the architect behind the "get Rush Limbaugh" plot on. Sean pointed out that liberals openly said they wanted Bush to fail. Why are there two sets of rules for liberals and conservatives.

There is really only one set of rules and they only apply to conservatives. Liberals have none.

524 Randall Gross  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:16:43pm

Everyone keeps pointing to how vile the left was to Bush. Then they turn around and say that negativism did not hurt the Dems, when Bush actually won both of his elections. Are you going to wake up some time today?

525 cronus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:17:12pm

For clarification. I sure as heck want some of the proposals Obama has layed out to fail or be amended to the point that they are no longer recognizable as his. I want elected officials to also be so committed to this same approach that they do not get dragged into the kind of media war republicans never win.

We won in the 1990's by wrapping our very tough criticism in substantive counter proposals and being incredibly disciplined about media. The media didn't want to talk about the Contract for America. They were simply forced to because that's all Republicans leaders would talk about and they had to reference it in order to quote a Repub.

526 hazzyday  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:17:14pm

re: #501 Afrocity

Tried to call in on Hannity and the line is busy. During the election I want to tell him that I am the 2% black that did not vote for Obama. I hate that being lumped together you know. I hate people talking to me like I voted for him and I agree with them. It is so frustrating.

You smart and have strong opinions. Hannity would make ratings with you.

527 Occasional Reader  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:17:19pm

re: #503 Sharmuta

True, but I'd rather they try to bludgeon a more positive agenda and look like asses for doing so instead of us looking like asses for defending this comment.

I think there is a "more positive agenda" on the conservative side, although perhaps not yet one good, strong spokesman or spokeswoman for it who's a viable candidate. Smaller government, lower taxes, strong national defense, individual liberty. Positive agenda.

528 NelsFree  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:17:26pm

re: #482 dicentra


Maybe we should stop guarding our words and say what we mean, then call thunder from the sky when they mess with us. It can be done, but not if you think it can't.

/Channelling John Wayne...

529 dicentra  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:17:42pm

re: #468 Sharmuta

This is all fine and good for them, but how is it really stopping 0bama? It's not.

What would stopping Obama look like at this point? Given that he's got both houses of congress at his beck and call...

What would help is a counter-proposal or two.

Here we go:

Stop the bailouts!

Don't give Geithner the authority to take control of financial entities that are "becoming a danger to the economy."

Honor the tenth amendment.

Drill here, drill now!

Making proposals is easy.

But when these lovely counter-proposals are proposed, what then? Do you really think that if the GOP writes up 95 Theses and tacks them to the door of the Senate that Obama will be stopped?

Language is our only tool at this point. That and Going Galt, if you're into that. Don't yield the linguistic paradigm to those who would destroy you.

530 Dar ul Harbarian  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:17:54pm

re: #522 Sosigado

And in other happy news, it looks like the NORKS are really clenching their fists with that stinkin' rocket launch threat. Hillary is composing a strongly worded letter.

Oh No! It's Hirrary Crinton!

531 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:18:18pm
532 Occasional Reader  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:19:01pm

re: #501 Afrocity

BTW, how'd the surgery go? (If you don't mind saying)

533 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:19:06pm

re: #482 dicentra

Not. Advocating. Acting. Like. Them.

And I've understood the MSM's bias since I was in diapers. So don't accuse me of not getting it.

Furthermore, I did not present a tu quoque argument. I was presenting evidence that negativity does not necessarily mean losing at the polls.

You guys seem really gun-shy. Conservatives have allowed the MSM to control the narrative for a long, long time without adequately fighting back, without demostrating in clear deliniation what they're up to.

If we don't guard our words, we'll end up being seen as crazies. We need to get our own narrative out and talk it up, I agree. But we must do it wisely. If we do not, then we can look forward to a socialist future.
Maybe we should stop guarding our words and say what we mean, then call thunder from the sky when they mess with us. It can be done, but not if you think it can't.

534 dicentra  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:19:10pm

re: #499 Charles

It's not stupid to be "gun-shy" if you can't stop shooting yourself in the foot.

Touché! I doff my cap to a brilliant riposte.

535 Ricblog  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:19:16pm

I don't want any socialist/statist to succeed, R or D. When I say I want him to fail it is as a result of the information received about him and his policies gained during the campaign. He may have won the election due to many factors, such as a RINO opponent and a massive "I want mine for nothing too" electorate, but it is not my American responsibility to go along to get along. Just because everyone else is heading over the clift doesn't suggest I should blindly follow them.
ric

536 Leatherhelmet  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:19:20pm

I think part of the American public is finally see why many want Obama to fail.

The euphoria of his election is over. People are staring at his carbon tax, taxing worker's health care benefits, taking away tax deductions from charities, et al and saying to themselves "Oh, this is why they want him to fail."

Just look at his poll numbers. They are going in the crapper.

537 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:19:24pm

re: #502 pollster

Oh, please. Now we gotta get a hate-on for Fred Thompson too?

Hey- I've been hating Fred Thomson since 1998 when he sold out the House Republicans, m'kay?re: #525 cronus

For clarification. I sure as heck want some of the proposals Obama has layed out to fail or be amended to the point that they are no longer recognizable as his. I want elected officials to also be so committed to this same approach that they do not get dragged into the kind of media war republicans never win.

We won in the 1990's by wrapping our very tough criticism in substantive counter proposals and being incredibly disciplined about media. The media didn't want to talk about the Contract for America. They were simply forced to because that's all Republicans leaders would talk about and they had to reference it in order to quote a Repub.

What I wouldn't give to have that spirit back.

538 Afrocity  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:19:43pm

re: #518 avanti

No mandatory service requirement in the bill, just another stupid committee to ponder how some sort of mandatory service plan would go over. Hint, like a lead balloon.

Does this mean you are on our side now?

539 newsjunkie_ky  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:19:55pm

The latest in street art in NYC
Burn a Banker

540 jorline  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:19:55pm

Good evening my little green friends.

I see a virgin hatchling didn't make it around all the bases tonight...they never learn.

541 Crimsonfisted  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:20:14pm

re: #531 Iron Fist

"We suck less" isn't exactly a rousing war-cry for the Republicans.


That definitely could be read as "we suckles".

NOT a war cry.

542 Dan G.  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:20:27pm

re: #481 Iron Fist

They took what they thought was the lesser of two evils. The contrast between the two candidates was not strong enough to make a well reasoned decision. And actually, more than just the two candidates, McCain inherited the mistakes of the GOP over the last 8 years (i.e. prescription drugs, his own attack on the 1st Ammendment, etc...).

543 rawmuse  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:20:34pm

I am just hoping there is a Republic in which to have a normal election the next cycle, which given the ACORN tactics, may be a long bet.

544 Cognito  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:20:38pm

Good on ya, Charles. Fantastic post.

This failure-wishing thing is an intellectual plague that needs curing.

Awesome.

545 iLikeCandy  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:20:59pm

Well, reading over more of this discussion, I still think the problem is not us, but our image, over which we have little control.

I always thought Republicans were mean and crabbed until I flipped after September 11. Once I started listening, I realized Republicans are a heck of a lot more positive than Dems. We (yes, I'm going to speak as a Republican here) are not perfect, but in a fair forum, we're leaps and bounds more positive, optimistic, and benevolent than the Dems.

546 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:21:04pm

re: #529 dicentra

Don't yield the linguistic paradigm to those who would destroy you.

And yet I'm amazed you don't see how you're doing exactly that.

I say we just walk away from Rush's talking point and get on with proposing real solutions to the American people.

547 Wishing  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:21:05pm

Good night all.
Sharm, I sure hope you reconsider running.

548 Afrocity  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:21:10pm

re: #532 Occasional Reader

BTW, how'd the surgery go? (If you don't mind saying)

(thumbs up)
Here medicated, IV in my arm, laptop on my chest, Fox news on.
Is condi on Jay leno?

549 kansas  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:21:26pm

Aw jeez. I am agreeing with avanti and Cognito. I'm going to bed.

550 Occasional Reader  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:21:28pm

re: #539 newsjunkie_ky

The latest in street art in NYC
Burn a Banker

Plus Obama as a vampire... hmm.

551 Dan G.  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:21:45pm

re: #485 rawmuse

I'd like to know also. Who ever he/she is, the GOP leaders aren't letting him/her anywhere near a GOP sanctioned microphone.

552 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:22:17pm

re: #549 kansas

Aw jeez. I am agreeing with avanti and Cognito. I'm going to bed.

LMAO!

553 Palandine  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:22:19pm

Presidents in my sentient life:

I wanted Carter to fail when he cowered to and appeased the Ayatollah
I wanted Reagan to fail when he pulled out of Lebanon
I wanted George H.W. Bush to fail when he came up with new taxes and chose not to achieve victory in the first Gulf War.
I wanted Clinton to fail on the Assault Weapons ban.
I wanted George W. Bush to fail when he turned to Socialism at the beginning of this economic crisis.
I want Barack Obama's Socialist policies to fail. Moreover, it's not even a question of _wanting_ them to fail. I know they will, for Socialism has been a horror and a disaster everywhere it's been tried.

I'm not a Jindal person (Eric Cantor is currently my favorite conservative), but I agree with Fred! and Rush. I guess I just don't see the problem. YMMV.

554 Shug  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:22:22pm

I won't Vote for Obama. I disagree with 99% of his politics If Jindal is the nominee I 'll be pissed off because my No Vote for Jindal will be a de facto vote for Obama.

I might write in Sharmuta for president

555 kahn_mann  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:22:30pm

If it is bad to want Obama to fail, is it at least okay to hope he doesn't succeed?

I do not want him to succeed in driving my electricity bill through the roof and increasing the prices for everything that is produced by using carbon dioxide-emitting means with his cap and trade energy policy in an attempt to make solar/wind energy artificially economically feasible. Middle class tax cut my butt - we'll just be paying more for everything with these crappy carbon taxes.
I do not want him to succeed in making it possible for some pencil-neck bureaucrat to decide what medical treatments are cheap enough for me, and which doctor I can go to.
I do not want him to succeed in borrowing so much money that no one will lend us any more and/or the dollar is worthless.
I do not want him to succeed in using my tax money to send every American to college.
I do not want him to succeed in forcing my children to volunteer - they should volunteer on their own if they are so inclined.
I do not want him to succeed in expanding welfare.
I do not want him to succeed in disarming our nuclear arsenal.
I do not want him to succeed in cutting the funding of our military.
I do not want him to succeed in taxing ammunition so that it becomes unaffordable. I do not want him to succeed in banning "assault weapons" that people use to defend their lives and the lives of their families.

Does hoping he does not succeed in these things mean I want him to fail? What is so wrong with not wanting him to impose his stupid ideas on me?

556 Occasional Reader  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:22:36pm

re: #548 Afrocity

(thumbs up)
Here medicated, IV in my arm, laptop on my chest, Fox news on.
Is condi on Jay leno?

Well, that's how I am most nights.

/

(no idea about Leno, I don't watch it)

557 newsjunkie_ky  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:22:44pm

re: #488 Salamantis

Jindal will NEVER recive my vote. It is a matter of adamantine principle with me that I will NEVER cast a presidential vote for someone who signed a Disco-Institute-authored stealth creationism-in-public-school-science-class bill into law while the governor of a state. PERIOD.


Go ahead and be that way, cut off your nose to spite your face.
To paraphrase Mandy, for all those that didn't vote for McCain because.....are you F*CKING happy now?

558 Sosigado  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:22:54pm

re: #538 Afrocity

Does this mean you are on our side now?

Not only would pigs fly, but it would be at supersonic speed.

559 hazzyday  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:23:29pm

re: #544 Cognito

Good on ya, Charles. Fantastic post.

This failure-wishing thing is an intellectual plague that needs curing.

Awesome.

As I was growing up I was told if you want someone to fail, it will only end up as you yourself failing. Sorta a karma thing I think. The mind starts to groove on failure.

In sports when you are trying to be the best you don't want the opponent to bring their B game. It gets you down.

560 pink freud  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:23:34pm

re: #474 SanFranciscoZionist

Thanks for the link, SFZ.

561 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:24:24pm

re: #529 dicentra

Language is our only tool at this point. That and Going Galt, if you're into that. Don't yield the linguistic paradigm to those who would destroy you.

This is incredibly ironic, because you are making the very same point I made in my post. By saying you want Obama to FAIL, you are handing victory to the Democrats. Why do you think they jumped so hard on this talking point? Because it's very obviously a negative, ugly thing to say, and no amount of spinning and justification is going to fix it.

It simply will never play well with the majority of this country to say that you want the duly elected president to fail. It's a reactionary strategy, and it's a losing strategy.

562 Dar ul Harbarian  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:24:45pm

re: #557 newsjunkie_ky

Go ahead and be that way, cut off your nose to spite your face.
To paraphrase Mandy, for all those that didn't vote for McCain because.....are you F*CKING happy now?

Some people will never settle for half a loaf on one or two key issues. I figure, over millions of votes, it all balances out.

563 traderjoe9  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:24:50pm

Obama wants to divide Jerusalem. I want him to fail.
Obama wants to appease and negotiate with terrorists. I want him to fail.
Obama wants to weaken our country and bring us down to the level of the Europeans. I want him to fail.

564 MandyManners  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:24:52pm

re: #548 Afrocity

(thumbs up)
Here medicated, IV in my arm, laptop on my chest, Fox news on.
Is condi on Jay leno?

Just for you, my dear Lizard!


Youtube Video
565 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:25:05pm

re: #518 avanti

No mandatory service requirement in the bill, just another stupid committee to ponder how some sort of mandatory service plan would go over. Hint, like a lead balloon.

How do you know it wouldn't go over?

566 Occasional Reader  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:25:09pm

re: #544 Cognito

Good on ya, Charles. Fantastic post.

This failure-wishing thing is an intellectual plague that needs curing.

Awesome.

I'm curious: Is your position that you disagree with the statement; or you think it's tactically a bad idea to say it; or both; or something else?

567 reine.de.tout  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:25:26pm

re: #549 kansas

Aw jeez. I am agreeing with avanti and Cognito. I'm going to bed.

LOL!
It happens, sometimes.

568 Randall Gross  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:25:30pm

I want Obama to succeed as president however I want Obama to politically fail with several of his extreme initiatives.

Short, sweet, nobody can quibble overmuch, and it creates the follow on question of "what extreme initiatives?"

569 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:25:33pm

Look dicentra- I repeatedly said what I thought McCain should have been focusing on during the campaign, and I have spent plenty of time here saying what I think the republican agenda should consist of including a comprehensive plan to fundamentally shift spending practices in Washington, so don't talk to me about a positive agenda. Talk to some GOPers with influence and power and tell them to come talk to me.

570 rawmuse  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:25:36pm

Oh well, I am not a "Goldilocks" voter. I vote without fail.

But, here is my advice:
Never fall in love with any politician, of any stripe, because they will break your heart every time.

Good night all.

571 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:25:45pm
572 Bloodnok  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:26:15pm

re: #561 Charles

This is incredibly ironic, because you are making the very same point I made in my post. By saying you want Obama to FAIL, you are handing victory to the Democrats. Why do you think they jumped so hard on this talking point? Because it's very obviously a negative, ugly thing to say, and no amount of spinning and justification is going to fix it.

It simply will never play well with the majority of this country to say that you want the duly elected president to fail. It's a reactionary strategy, and it's a losing strategy.

And it takes all of the responsibility off the Republicans to do a better job and offer some solutions other than NOT voting for what he proposes.

573 avanti  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:26:41pm

re: #538 Afrocity

Does this mean you are on our side now?

Afocity, I'm not on anyone side 100% of the time. I voted for BHO, but he's not perfect by any means, Heck, if someone as rational as Charles and some others on LGF were running the GOP I might lean more toward "your" side. But, alas I suspect the moderate voices will be silenced.

574 newsjunkie_ky  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:26:48pm

re: #553 Palandine

Presidents in my sentient life:

I wanted Carter to fail when he cowered to and appeased the Ayatollah
I wanted Reagan to fail when he pulled out of Lebanon
I wanted George H.W. Bush to fail when he came up with new taxes and chose not to achieve victory in the first Gulf War.
I wanted Clinton to fail on the Assault Weapons ban.
I wanted George W. Bush to fail when he turned to Socialism at the beginning of this economic crisis.
I want Barack Obama's Socialist policies to fail. Moreover, it's not even a question of _wanting_ them to fail. I know they will, for Socialism has been a horror and a disaster everywhere it's been tried.

I'm not a Jindal person (Eric Cantor is currently my favorite conservative), but I agree with Fred! and Rush. I guess I just don't see the problem. YMMV.


And I wanted W to fail in the shamnesty bill.

575 HelloDare  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:27:13pm

re: #545 iLikeCandy

Well, reading over more of this discussion, I still think the problem is not us, but our image, over which we have little control.

When a republican gets caught doing something wrong, saying something wrong, it's proof that he is a bad person.

When a democrat gets caught, it's an aberration or just an example that the politician is human like the rest of us.

For that kind of thinking to work, a person has to believe that republicans/conservatives are inherently bad and democrats/liberals are inherently good.

I know a guy, a smart guy, who thinks that conservatives are against the minimum wage because they want people to suffer. He can see no other reason why conservatives would be against raising the minimum wage.

I explain the conservative position: it doesn't work -- you actually end up hurting the people you are trying to help. I ask him, "Even if you don't agree, can't you see the argument"? He can't. Because if he did, he would be wrong. His world view would crumble. Conservatives wouldn't be bad people. What would he do then?

576 Shug  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:27:17pm

The republicans haven't had a real solid agenda since 1994.

577 Cognito  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:27:34pm

re: #559 hazzyday

As I was growing up I was told if you want someone to fail, it will only end up as you yourself failing. Sorta a karma thing I think. The mind starts to groove on failure.

In sports when you are trying to be the best you don't want the opponent to bring their B game. It gets you down.

My sentiment isn't even that noble. It's just a matter of national self-preservation. If Obama's policies fail -- that is, don't resurrect the economy -- we're in for a collective financial heart attack.

Let's hope he succeeds despite himself, and then loses (somehow) the 2012 election, making room for someone whose policies are more agreeable in the long term.

And here's hoping conservatives can find someone worthy, in the meantime.

578 Occasional Reader  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:27:40pm

re: #561 Charles

By saying you want Obama to FAIL, you are handing victory to the Democrats

But if we're not even going to allow ourselves to say that we want the most radical-left President of my lifetime to "fail" in his core agenda, isn't THAT handing victory to the Left?

How can you possibly win a political discourse if you refuse to even say to the other side, in essence, "you're wrong"?

579 dicentra  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:27:45pm

re: #546 Sharmuta

And yet I'm amazed you don't see how you're doing exactly that.

I don't think you know what I mean by linguistic paradigm: the paradigm I'm talking about is the one where the listener gets to decide what you meant, regardless of what your intention was. If someone takes your comment to be racist, then you're a racist. If someone takes your words to be overly negative, then you're overly negative.

And given the malice of some of our listeners, they'll go out of their way to make you into a horrible person no matter what you meant to say--or even what you actually said.

Click over to Jeff Goldstein's essay. THAT's what I'm talking about

Look, this is a debate between someone who uses a Smurf for an avatar and someone who uses a bleeding heart. We can't exactly justify taking ourselves very seriously, eh?

580 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:28:00pm
581 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:28:09pm
582 hazzyday  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:29:02pm

re: #563 traderjoe9

Obama wants to divide Jerusalem. I want him to fail.
Obama wants to appease and negotiate with terrorists. I want him to fail.
Obama wants to weaken our country and bring us down to the level of the Europeans. I want him to fail.

The theory though is that your statements aren't contributing to any type of solution. Instead of saying "I want him to fail". You need to say what is the better plan and why. People will gravitate to that. They will never gravitate to you if you walk around with a dark rainy "woe is me" cloud over your head. Which is what people will assume if they don't hear something constructive. People love negative gossip, but they are always reaching for a carrot.

583 Promethea  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:29:06pm

re: #20 TheMatrix31

All anyone needs to say to that is "Do I want Barack 0bama to fail? Of course not. But I do know that the policies that him and his people are enacting are devastating and have never worked anywhere or at any time in world history. What I WANT him to do is enact policies that are known to work."

Someone needs to figure out a way to deliver the non-statist free enterprise message in a simple way (AKA an easy-to-understand meme).

Right now, too many millions of Americans are government workers, and they don't understand that poverty will come to them when private enterprise is crushed. They just don't understand the role of private enterprise in making America wealthy.

Also, the clever demonization of Wall Street is only making matters worse. I'm not a fan of the hedge-fund-style manipulative road to wealth, but I see that the general public has no idea what the role of Congress has been in creating the banking crisis.

I personally think that someone/some group, etc. needs to promote ideas that don't use the words "right-wing," "conservative," or "Republican." These are all flaming words for those who want to be "fair" or "cool." The "fair" and "cool" types don't understand the Big Picture at all. They don't understand Free Enterprise and the reason why Big Government is a bad thing.

My husband, for example, firmly supports national health care, and nothing I can say or send him in an email makes a dent. He wants to believe. He is a talented and intelligent man, but he's never been in business, and he has never studied Economics 101. It's easy for him to support Obama because he doesn't have the background to see why Obama's a con artist.

584 cronus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:29:18pm

We are on the verge of winning card check right now because we got out well in front of the debate with an issue specific message (not a lame generality about "failing") on secret ballots and have hammered it incessantly. We have never had to play defense on this issue because we defined the terms first. We know need to replicate this on health care and entitlements.

Judd Gregg and others are starting to get this. Others need to quickly follow suit.

585 Dar ul Harbarian  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:29:29pm

re: #576 Shug

The republicans haven't had a real solid agenda since 1994.

The "Contract with America" was a good example of a positive message overcoming a negative one.

586 MandyManners  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:29:48pm

re: #553 Palandine

Presidents in my sentient life:

I wanted Carter to fail when he cowered to and appeased the Ayatollah
I wanted Reagan to fail when he pulled out of Lebanon
I wanted George H.W. Bush to fail when he came up with new taxes and chose not to achieve victory in the first Gulf War.
I wanted Clinton to fail on the Assault Weapons ban.
I wanted George W. Bush to fail when he turned to Socialism at the beginning of this economic crisis.
I want Barack Obama's Socialist policies to fail. Moreover, it's not even a question of _wanting_ them to fail. I know they will, for Socialism has been a horror and a disaster everywhere it's been tried.

I'm not a Jindal person (Eric Cantor is currently my favorite conservative), but I agree with Fred! and Rush. I guess I just don't see the problem. YMMV.

Cantor voted for the bonus tax.

587 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:29:54pm

re: #578 Occasional Reader

But if we're not even going to allow ourselves to say that we want the most radical-left President of my lifetime to "fail" in his core agenda, isn't THAT handing victory to the Left?

How can you possibly win a political discourse if you refuse to even say to the other side, in essence, "you're wrong"?

That's not what I'm saying at all. In fact, I thought I made that very clear in my post -- criticize the guy harshly. Argue against his policies. But when you say you want him to fail, it's a form of giving up.

588 Afrocity  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:29:57pm

re: #564 MandyManners

Mandy that was lovely. I have never seen the movie Dumbo. Thanks lizardette!

589 lobo91  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:30:48pm

re: #428 Wendya

I'll agree with unprincipled but theocratic?

If you know anything about our history, you'd know the last decade has probably been the least "theocratic" time since our inception. The "rabid religious right has taken over the GOP" is a leftist talking point that has been around since Reagan. As an agnostic, I can say I do not fear the so-called "religious right". They are not the rottweiler that the left has made them out to be. More like an old, toothless dog.

I live near ground zero of the evangelical movement in Colorado Springs. Focus on the Family's headquarters is about 2 miles from my house.

Not once have I ever been marched into an evangelical reeducation camp for failng to attend church, though.

Kind of a sad excuse for a theoracy, if they can't even control the people in their own town...

590 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:31:05pm

re: #307 avanti

The fact that you stood up for what you thought was right, knowing it might not be popular says a great deal about you. I'm going to have a beer now, and just feel guilty that many on the left would never follow your example of honesty.

Charles has always stood up for what is right, not just what's on the the right.

591 Cognito  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:31:07pm

re: #566 Occasional Reader

I'm curious: Is your position that you disagree with the statement; or you think it's tactically a bad idea to say it; or both; or something else?

Probably all of the above.

Obama's at the tiller. Do I think he knows the best way to steer us through the shoals? No.

But I sure do hope we find ourselves celebrating on the other side.

592 Gearhead  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:31:33pm

re: #568 Thanos

I want Obama to succeed as president however I want Obama to politically fail with several of his extreme initiatives.

Short, sweet, nobody can quibble overmuch, and it creates the follow on question of "what extreme initiatives?"

Well said.

If that was Limbaugh's actual point, he ruined it by giving the MSM an easy hook by saying that he wanted Obama to fail (not that they won't turn anything they can find into a negative headline for the GOP).

593 Occasional Reader  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:31:46pm

re: #581 Iron Fist

"So, Mr. Republican, other than poisoning puppies and kittens, raping small children, and starving old people, what do you republicans do for entertainment?"

Firearms. Duh.

594 Killer Tomato  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:31:51pm

What do we want?
Where's our list of demands for the GOP?
We need to compile a list of what we want, and then we need to get it to Michael Steele, Mitch McConnell, John Boehner, and each state GOP chair, and inform them point blank, this is what we expect of you. We do not intend to spend the next 8 years wandering in the wilderness while you craft a message, and since you haven't managed it so far - use this one.

(and shortly I'm going to start screaming out of sheer frustration)

595 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:31:58pm
596 cronus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:32:00pm

re: #584 cronus

Oops, meant to say "now" not "know"

597 Shug  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:32:05pm

re: #587 Charles

That's not what I'm saying at all. In fact, I thought I made that very clear in my post -- criticize the guy harshly. Argue against his policies. But when you say you want him to fail, it's a form of giving up.

you did

598 avanti  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:32:17pm

re: #549 kansas

Aw jeez. I am agreeing with avanti and Cognito. I'm going to bed.

This too will pass. :)

599 MandyManners  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:32:30pm

re: #578 Occasional Reader

But if we're not even going to allow ourselves to say that we want the most radical-left President of my lifetime to "fail" in his core agenda, isn't THAT handing victory to the Left?

How can you possibly win a political discourse if you refuse to even say to the other side, in essence, "you're wrong"?

Can't we just not say that we want FCBBHO's Commie policies to fail?

600 USCMSNE  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:32:39pm

I have no problem saying I want Obama to fail. I have no problem with Democrats wanting GWB to fail. The difference between us is principal. Everyone of the Democrats voted for the war before they were against it. They base their political opinions from the direction political winds blow. It was politically expedient for them to say they wanted GWB to fail. Their positions are a personal insult to me, I argued against them, but it's what I expect from them. Their crass politicization of everything is their prerogative. As someone succinctly said up top... liberals have positions and conservatives have principles. Fascism, Communism or any other form of absolute government has historically failed. Our Republic has had a meteoric rise because our founders knew the dangers of an overbearing government. Our founders knew that Liberty was crucial to the success of the Republic. Obama's agenda runs counter to the principles this Republic was founded on. I am not one to nuance speech. I do not want Obama to succeed in his agenda. There is no way I could otherwise parse that sentiment into hopey-changey happiness. I want him to fail.

601 Promethea  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:32:57pm

re: #75 buzzsawmonkey

I have found, in the course of lawyering, that the worst thing one can do when making an argument is to go from Point A to Point D without enunciating and clearly laying out Points B and C, even--perhaps especially--when the line from Point A to Point D is crystal clear.

You lose the argument by leaving out the connecting dots.

The Republicans are doing that because by saying that they "want Obama to fail," they are saying that they do not want him to savage the Constitution, cripple defense, give the government an inappropriate hand in the economy, etc.

All of these are good points. But by saying them in short form, "We want him to fail," instead of clearly enunciating what they want him to fail at and why, they are failing to make their argument and its basis clear. That is why the "jury" of the American public is not buying their argument.

Had the Republicans been properly educating the public for the last five, ten, fifteen, twenty years, their short-form argument might work. But they haven't, and they are compounding that dereliction now by making the short-form argument to people whom they have not prepared to understand it.

Excellent post! You said it so much better than I did in my #583 post.

602 Cognito  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:33:17pm

re: #587 Charles

That's not what I'm saying at all. In fact, I thought I made that very clear in my post -- criticize the guy harshly. Argue against his policies. But when you say you want him to fail, it's a form of giving up.

You're all over it, Charles.

The stickier question, for me, is whether I want him to wildly succeed. To face the possible truth that the Keynesian model -- big state, big spending -- actually works. Yikes.

There's no arguing with success, as the man said.

603 Gus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:33:23pm

re: #582 hazzyday

The theory though is that your statements aren't contributing to any type of solution. Instead of saying "I want him to fail". You need to say what is the better plan and why. People will gravitate to that. They will never gravitate to you if you walk around with a dark rainy "woe is me" cloud over your head. Which is what people will assume if they don't hear something constructive. People love negative gossip, but they are always reaching for a carrot.

How about something like this:

Obama should not divide Jerusalem because... Instead we should...

Obama should not appease and negotiate with terrorists because... A better alternative would be to...

Obama willl weaken our country and bring us down to the level of the Europeans. This is a dangerous path because....

604 dicentra  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:33:25pm

re: #561 Charles

This is incredibly ironic, because you are making the very same point I made in my post. By saying you want Obama to FAIL, you are handing victory to the Democrats.

As I said to Sharmuta, you need to read Jeff's essay.

The MSM is waging a war of "terror" on our words by stealing their meanings and reinventing them to hurt us, just as AQ used our airliners against us. Saying that we need to avoid "negative" statements is like saying that if we stop being all mean to the terrorists, they'll stop bombing us.

In other words, if we all stop flying in airplanes, the terrorists win, even when they manage to crash only a few. We live, but we live in terror.

YES, it's a much smaller scale. There is a HUGE difference in degree, but not a difference in kind. That's what I'm saying.

605 Sceptic Tank  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:33:31pm

I honestly don't know what the Republicans stand for as Obama takes this country all the way down to the bottom in every category. Not only do I not know what they stand for, whatever it is, they don't sell it very well. Somewhat McCainish, although it would have been less bad if he did not fail.

606 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:33:36pm

re: #511 jorline

Try it with this..."Miracle Fruit"...everything is sweet!

How are ya tonight Dark?

I'm OK. Today was a good day, but this month has been brutal. I'm not going to make quota. I don't expect to lose my job over that this time, but if it happens again in April, I may be out. That said, I have been getting better at sales and tomorrow morning I'm talking to my mortgage broker about the new loans programs. I'm one of the few who might benefit from those programs and if I am, I'll have turned the corner on getting myself on good financial footing.

607 Dan G.  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:33:57pm

re: #589 lobo91

So they haven't used force against you. Do you deny that they forward and support laws that are based on religious beliefs on those who don't espouse those same beliefs?

608 Wendya  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:34:08pm

re: #460 Dan G.

That argument may've had merit prior to the Schiavo affair, the Faith-Based Initiatives, and the fact that those who are being spotlighted (by the GOP, mind you) as the leadership of the GOP are anti-science on religious grounds... and not just in their personal lives, but as a part of the agenda that they're passing into law (i.e. in other peoples' lives).

The Schiavo affair was definitely a disgrace but the faith based initiatives didn't turn us into a theocracy. Private charity, particularly faith based charities have historically done a better job than government handouts. As for the anti-science stuff... I see that as a leftist talking point. I too used to be one of those "the religious right is the most dangerous group in the country and they're going to turn us into a theocracy" harpies until I actually took the time to sit down and look at how much real influence they had vs what I imagined. I no longer fear the religious.

609 Afrocity  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:34:09pm

re: #573 avanti

Afocity, I'm not on anyone side 100% of the time. I voted for BHO, but he's not perfect by any means, Heck, if someone as rational as Charles and some others on LGF were running the GOP I might lean more toward "your" side. But, alas I suspect the moderate voices will be silenced.

Avanti, if u want u can contact me by e-mail. As a defector from the left maybe I can talk to u about reasons not to join the DNC. I live in Chicago, Obama is not what he seems. he is part of a well oiled machine. Please look at his record. McCain was a far better man, and so Sarah Palin who had so much to offer us, she was fresh air and I felt was someone I could relate to. The DEMS lie Avanti, they use groups of people and make us feel powerless so we can depend on the govt. They do not care about us, they just want to line their pockets. Jesse Jackson hit on me, on a Clinton campaign bus. He knew me since I was 3 years old and I was shocked, this is par for the course. They are slime.

610 iLikeCandy  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:34:20pm

Well, I think I'm argued out. Everything I've got to say has been said by me or others, and I've only changed my mind to the point that I've said in #388.

Thanks for the discussion, all.

611 Gearhead  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:34:26pm

re: #585 Dar ul Harbarian

The "Contract with America" was a good example of a positive message overcoming a negative one.

And Newt Gingrich was so good at advancing it that he became thew MSM's favorite target.

612 JohnAdams  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:34:36pm

I won't speak for Charles because I think he did a good job of saying it for himself. I think the point is that no matter how much you despise Obama's policies and goals, the BEST way to stop him is to offer BETTER policies and goals, and to pursue them everyday through the channels of government. In the end this is the only thing that will actually win hearts and minds. It's just simple psychology. Publicly tearing away at Obama is ultimately just more of the same old same old, and hardens the opposition. Same way that the Dems tearing away at Rush has pumped his ratings through the roof. In politics it seems that a disciplined strategy is more effective than an outright attack, which admittedly feels better. Just my take.

613 traderjoe9  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:34:51pm

re: #582 hazzyday

The theory though is that your statements aren't contributing to any type of solution. Instead of saying "I want him to fail". You need to say what is the better plan and why. People will gravitate to that. They will never gravitate to you if you walk around with a dark rainy "woe is me" cloud over your head. Which is what people will assume if they don't hear something constructive. People love negative gossip, but they are always reaching for a carrot.

Well, solutions to what exactly? Don't divide Jerusalem would be one. Don't send millions upon millions of dollars that will end up in the hands of Hamas. Don't negotiate with Iran - assist Israel in ending their nuclear program.

I simply can't offer solutions when the President insists on blatantly lying to our faces.

"And Jerusalem must remain undivided!"

"I meant without barbed wire..."

There's no solution to that. He just plain doesn't care about Israel's fate.

614 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:35:01pm

re: #579 dicentra

I'm one of the first people to laugh at myself, but I take my positions on what I think the GOP should be focusing on very seriously, because I love this country with my whole heart.

A few weeks ago, I made a comment on this blog about a conversation I had with a liberal family member who had ever once listened to me concerning taxes, but 0bama gave me an opportunity to talk about tax policy from a conservative stand point, and they listened to me. This is what I would rather spend my time doing, not explaining away rhetoric from a talking head. (And I will always be grateful to Rush for his help in converting me to conservatism in the mid-90s, so this isn't about hating Rush or anything like that.)

It's funny- people will say things here like "Charles is a big boy and can take the heat and defend himself", but I'm not hearing that same line of reasoning with Rush. Why are so many defending his comment? He can't do this himself?

615 Occasional Reader  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:35:02pm

re: #587 Charles

That's not what I'm saying at all.

You're late, the T.S. Eliot/Prufrock thread was much, much earlier today.

/

But seriously... I think in a large sense we agree in terms of "what I think we should affirmatively do". I just don't agree that the "I want Obama to fail" thing is all that serious. It's a kerfuffle, in my opinion; and it does have some upside for conservatives, as it makes people ASK "what does he mean by that?".

616 Darleen  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:35:18pm

Jaysus H. Keerist, people, stop conceding language to the Left.

As the late William F Buckley pointed out, someone can proclaim "Pushing grandma is evil and wrong" until you point out there is a world of difference between Pushing Grandma into the path of a bus and out of the path of a bus.

The Left wanted Bush to fail in WINNING a war. They wanted American troops humiliated, killed, wounded, on trial in a World Court for War Crimes. The Left wanted (wants) American to fail -- the essense of America, the values of America.

Limbaugh, Jindal, Thompson recognize that Obama's radical agenda will cause America to cease AS America. Unless Obama is forced to change, NOT wanting him to fail is the same as allowing grandma to remain standing in the path of an on rushing bus.

Find your balls, conservatives.

617 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:35:18pm

re: #576 Shug

The republicans haven't had a real solid agenda since 1994.

Ding!

618 Dan G.  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:35:42pm

re: #594 Killer Tomato

That could be interesting... how about a "Society of Lizards List of Requests/Demands" compiled from the substantive posts on this and related threads?

619 MandyManners  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:35:46pm

re: #588 Afrocity

Mandy that was lovely. I have never seen the movie Dumbo. Thanks lizardette!

You're quite welcome.

Now, take care of yourself! Get some sleep. It's late where you are. Sleep. Rest. Do you have enough to drink? Are your pillows fluffed? Are your feet cold? You got a neighbor to check in on you? Got any chicken soup?

Seriously, take care!

620 hazzyday  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:35:52pm

re: #577 Cognito

My sentiment isn't even that noble. It's just a matter of national self-preservation. If Obama's policies fail -- that is, don't resurrect the economy -- we're in for a collective financial heart attack.

Let's hope he succeeds despite himself, and then loses (somehow) the 2012 election, making room for someone whose policies are more agreeable in the long term.

And here's hoping conservatives can find someone worthy, in the meantime.

I got out of the stock market completely in the dot com boom when I was going to Charles Schwab to buy into IPO's and couldn't even get my foot in the door. All the big guys were able to reserve front row seats as any IPO opened. I can take an economic hit, but my relatives can't. We are in for that collective heart attack unless competition finds it's way back into the economy.

621 avanti  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:36:22pm

re: #590 Ward Cleaver

Charles has always stood up for what is right, not just what's on the the right.

That has the makings of a damn fine bumper sticker.

622 AKforty777  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:36:28pm

Youre absolutely right Charles. I couldnt agree more...I feel very let down right now by my party.

623 Bloodnok  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:36:31pm

Look at some of the trial balloons that have been floated and then retracted. Look at how many of his campaign promises he reneged on (okay, some were outright lies from the start). When the public is against some things they don't get done.

It's true the Dems are currently shoving things down the public's throat while they can, but if the Republicans can get ideas out there you may see some Dems up-for-reelection-in-10 switching sides on votes or some ideas abandoned by 0bama. The Dems may be unscrupulous, but they do possess a degree of self preservation.

624 Mr. In get Mr. Out  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:36:44pm

re: #522 Sosigado

And in other happy news, it looks like the NORKS are really clenching their fists with that stinkin' rocket launch threat. Hillary is composing a strongly worded letter.

These are interesting times, indeed.

625 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:36:47pm

re: #540 jorline

Good evening my little green friends.

I see a virgin hatchling didn't make it around all the bases tonight...they never learn.

Charles had the ghost crabs snag him before he made to the water. (trolls as green turtles analogy)

626 Randall Gross  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:37:03pm

re: #612 JohnAdams

I won't speak for Charles because I think he did a good job of saying it for himself. I think the point is that no matter how much you despise Obama's policies and goals, the BEST way to stop him is to offer BETTER policies and goals, and to pursue them everyday through the channels of government. In the end this is the only thing that will actually win hearts and minds. It's just simple psychology. Publicly tearing away at Obama is ultimately just more of the same old same old, and hardens the opposition. Same way that the Dems tearing away at Rush has pumped his ratings through the roof. In politics it seems that a disciplined strategy is more effective than an outright attack, which admittedly feels better. Just my take.

Well said, and if the Republicans can't see far enough past their noses to pick up the fact that the left wants us to tear at Obama the next two years while congress runs amuck they aren't in it to win it.

627 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:37:08pm

re: #591 Cognito

Probably all of the above.

Obama's at the tiller. Do I think he knows the best way to steer us through the shoals? No.

But I sure do hope we find ourselves celebrating on the other side.

You mean we're gonna die?

/starts weeping

628 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:37:37pm

re: #612 JohnAdams

I won't speak for Charles because I think he did a good job of saying it for himself. I think the point is that no matter how much you despise Obama's policies and goals, the BEST way to stop him is to offer BETTER policies and goals, and to pursue them everyday through the channels of government. In the end this is the only thing that will actually win hearts and minds. It's just simple psychology. Publicly tearing away at Obama is ultimately just more of the same old same old, and hardens the opposition. Same way that the Dems tearing away at Rush has pumped his ratings through the roof. In politics it seems that a disciplined strategy is more effective than an outright attack, which admittedly feels better. Just my take.

It's a good take. We seemed to grasp the concept of winning hearts and minds in Iraq, but we can't seem to understand how the same idea can help us as much at home with our politics as it did to help turn the situation around in Iraq.

629 MandyManners  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:37:46pm

I know I'm not the only one who realizes that rebuilding the GOP will be painless.

630 Occasional Reader  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:38:14pm

re: #591 Cognito

Probably all of the above.

Obama's at the tiller. Do I think he knows the best way to steer us through the shoals? No.

But I sure do hope we find ourselves celebrating on the other side.

Your statement assumes, of course, that he wants to reach the same port we do. And I'm not so sure about that.

Yes, I think he wants the economy to "turn around", but at the price of the government permanently running large portions of it. And yes, I want that project to FAIL (not that its chances of success are good, really). My ideal scenario? The economy turns around in spite of Obama's attempts at shoving us to the left, not because of them; the voters notice this; and they vote accordingly in 2010 and 2012.

631 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:38:14pm

re: #616 Darleen

Find your balls, conservatives.

I'd rather see conservatives find their BRAINS. Thinking with your balls tends to cause problems.

632 Dan G.  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:38:16pm

re: #608 Wendya

Your choice. I have sat down and looked at it as well, these are my estimations, I don't associate with leftists and I don't read any leftist periodicals... Just because these individual acts didn't turn our country into a theocracy doesn't mean that those pushing them aren't trying, incrementally, to do so. Obama's single acts won't turn our country into a socialist "paradise" overnight either, but there is a cumulative effect.

633 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:38:19pm

re: #622 AKforty777

Youre absolutely right Charles. I couldnt agree more...I feel very let down right now by my party.

Man, this whole country's turned upside down.

634 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:38:30pm

re: #629 MandyManners

I know I'm not the only one who realizes that rebuilding the GOP will be painless.

Did you mean painful?

635 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:38:48pm
636 Sosigado  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:38:55pm

re: #614 Sharmuta

...but I'm not hearing that same line of reasoning with Rush. Why are so many defending his comment? He can't do this himself?

He's explained his reasoning over and over again on his show.

637 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:38:57pm

re: #631 Charles

I'd rather see conservatives find their BRAINS. Thinking with your balls tends to cause problems.

Truer words.....

638 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:39:03pm

re: #603 Gus 802

Obama should not divide Jerusalem because...it's not his to give away Instead we should...let the Israelis deal with it as they see fit

Obama should not appease and negotiate with terrorists because...it is a display of weakness and submissiveness and encourages them to commit more atrocities A better alternative would be to...beat their asses until they cry for us to stop

Obama willl weaken our country and bring us down to the level of the Europeans. This is a dangerous path because....Europeans have sucky sports.

639 Zimriel  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:39:04pm

re: #609 Afrocity

Avanti, if u want u can contact me by e-mail. As a defector from the left maybe I can talk to u about reasons not to join the DNC. I live in Chicago, Obama is not what he seems. he is part of a well oiled machine. Please look at his record.

The place to do that would be Freddoso's "The Case Against Obama". (Do NOT read Corsi. It's no use going from being a respectable liberal, as I believe you to be, to being a troofer whack-o.) It's not just a hatchet job; it's an education on how wheels get greased in a major port city.

640 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:39:10pm

re: #631 Charles

I'd rather see conservatives find their BRAINS. Thinking with your balls tends to cause problems.

Yeah, look what that did for Dr. Slick.

641 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:39:15pm

re: #636 Sosigado

He's explained his reasoning over and over again on his show.

Great- so why are the rest of us?

642 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:39:16pm

re: #465 MandyManners

It's cool. I've been wearing my cranky pants today, myself.

643 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:39:36pm

I agree with Charles, kind of.
If one disagrees with virtually every one of Obama's policies; if one believes that Obama does not have the best interests of the nation at heart; and if one believes that Obama is unqualified to be POTUS - then one expects and trusts that he will indeed "fail" to implement his wrong-headed policies. Because if he does not "fail" then that means that the nation will have been harmed and poorly served.

On the other hand, there is always a chance that Obama, despite his faults and misguided policies, will by some miracle succeed in advancing the best interests of America. This remote possibility is to be desired and wished for by all loyal Americans, even his staunchest political foes, and those who refuse to do so are to be viewed as cynical and unpatriotic.

For the GOP to play this game of semantics is not only unnecessary but tactically stupid - a mug's game which they cannot win.

644 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:39:39pm

re: #629 MandyManners

I know I'm not the only one who realizes that rebuilding the GOP will not be painless.

PIYF

645 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:39:51pm

Lots of referrals from twitter on this post.

646 Shug  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:39:54pm

re: #637 Sharmuta

Truer words.....

Larry Craig thought with his balls

647 Dan G.  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:39:54pm

re: #631 Charles

Doesn't thinking with your balls make you a dickhead?
/

648 Afrocity  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:40:00pm

re: #619 MandyManners

You're quite welcome.

Now, take care of yourself! Get some sleep. It's late where you are. Sleep. Rest. Do you have enough to drink? Are your pillows fluffed? Are your feet cold? You got a neighbor to check in on you? Got any chicken soup?

Seriously, take care!

I am groggy but cannot sleep. They have some cranberry juice and gave me footies. I have a nurse because I live by myself. I just wish they would take out IV, it makes my arm cold.

649 reine.de.tout  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:40:29pm

re: #578 Occasional Reader

But if we're not even going to allow ourselves to say that we want the most radical-left President of my lifetime to "fail" in his core agenda, isn't THAT handing victory to the Left?

How can you possibly win a political discourse if you refuse to even say to the other side, in essence, "you're wrong"?

Saying "you're wrong", must be followed by a "and here's why", and then a "and here's the alternative".

The quick sound-bite consisting simply of a statement of wanting Obama to fail does not provide any information as to what's wrong, or why, or what would be the better alternative.

People are convinced not by a statement of "I want failure", but by:
1. Personal experience, when they are negatively affected (by, say, Obama's policies), and/or
2. Being convinced that there is a better alternative, with reasons why it's better.

650 Zimriel  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:40:41pm

re: #639 Zimriel

The place to do that would be Freddoso's "The Case Against Obama". (Do NOT read Corsi. It's no use going from being a respectable liberal, as I believe you to be, to being a troofer whack-o.) It's not just a hatchet job; it's an education on how wheels get greased in a major port city.

Ack! I meant that post to be directed to Avanti, not to Afrocity. PIMF damnit PIMF

651 Mich-again  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:40:54pm

re: #598 avanti

This thread reminds me a bit of something I said to you last week.

652 Occasional Reader  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:40:56pm

re: #602 Cognito

The stickier question, for me, is whether I want him to wildly succeed. To face the possible truth that the Keynesian model -- big state, big spending -- actually works.

Ask yourself first; "works" to do what?

653 itellu3times  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:40:58pm

re: #548 Afrocity

(thumbs up)
Here medicated, IV in my arm, laptop on my chest, Fox news on.
Is condi on Jay leno?

She was on last night, hope your meds include Tivo! She did OK, she's off to write a book or two.

654 irongrampa  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:41:15pm

re: #635 taxfreekiller

Going to be a close race, tfk. But i think Tedisco will do it.

655 Dan G.  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:41:16pm

Nite all.

656 avanti  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:41:22pm

re: #599 MandyManners

Can't we just not say that we want FCBBHO's Commie policies to fail?

Not going to fight the Commie thing tonight, I'm in too good a mood.

657 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:41:25pm

re: #645 Killgore Trout

Lots of referrals from twitter on this post.

Are you not watching LOST?

658 iLikeCandy  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:41:38pm

re: #578 Occasional Reader

But if we're not even going to allow ourselves to say that we want the most radical-left President of my lifetime to "fail" in his core agenda, isn't THAT handing victory to the Left?

How can you possibly win a political discourse if you refuse to even say to the other side, in essence, "you're wrong"?

Thanks to comments like this, I'm making more comebacks than Cher.

I think this is exactly right. Remember the elections, when we wanted to jump through our t.v. screens and slap some blood into McCain?

659 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:41:41pm
660 BadShot  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:41:46pm

re: #85 erevu

well put. just a shame the masses are so brain-dead it would have be spelled out for them in such detail.

661 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:41:46pm

re: #638 Alouette

Obama should not divide Jerusalem because...it's not his to give away Instead we should...let the Israelis deal with it as they see fit

Obama should not appease and negotiate with terrorists because...it is a display of weakness and submissiveness and encourages them to commit more atrocities A better alternative would be to...beat their asses until they cry for us to stop

Obama willl weaken our country and bring us down to the level of the Europeans. This is a dangerous path because....Europeans have sucky sports.

Yeah, tell me about it. Scoreless ties? Bor-ring.

662 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:41:52pm

re: #649 reine.de.tout

Saying "you're wrong", must be followed by a "and here's why", and then a "and here's the alternative".

The quick sound-bite consisting simply of a statement of wanting Obama to fail does not provide any information as to what's wrong, or why, or what would be the better alternative.

Exactly.

663 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:42:00pm

re: #647 Dan G.

Doesn't thinking with your balls make you a dickhead?
/

Ask Bill Clinton about that.

664 traderjoe9  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:42:02pm

re: #657 Walter L. Newton

Are you not watching LOST?

19 minutes!

665 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:42:06pm

re: #557 newsjunkie_ky

Go ahead and be that way, cut off your nose to spite your face.
To paraphrase Mandy, for all those that didn't vote for McCain because.....are you F*CKING happy now?

I wanted Rudy, but I voted for McCain.

Jindal is no McCain. He is much, MUCH worse.

He's as bad as fucking Huckabee.

666 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:42:51pm

re: #656 avanti

Not going to fight the Commie thing tonight, I'm in too good a mood.

What up Avanti? What happened? Do you want to share with us?

667 Dar ul Harbarian  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:42:55pm

I'm so glad we had this time, together...
Just to have a laugh and sing a song.
.......

668 Occasional Reader  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:43:08pm

re: #649 reine.de.tout

The quick sound-bite consisting simply of a statement of wanting Obama to fail

Did Limbaugh actually do that? Did he just say "I want him to fail", and then sign off?

669 Afrocity  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:43:09pm

re: #650 Zimriel

Ack! I meant that post to be directed to Avanti, not to Afrocity. PIMF damnit PIMF

I read Corsi...Is that Obamanation. I read it because the Chicago GOP reccomended it. Said that is all I need to give any Obamabot and they would be cured. What happened to Corsi anyway?

670 capitalist piglet  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:43:14pm

re: #447 Afrocity

I dont know. To be honest he seems to think that most of us are victims and want handouts. I guess I can understand this but there are many hardworking blacks who contribute to society. I have tried to call in but cant get past snerdly. I think Rush is brilliant and has Obama's number better than most.

Please know that I would like me people of color to join but you have to trust that we dont want GOP to change. You have to trust us,

Afrocity:

One of the coolest things I ever heard about race relations came from Rush Limbaugh. It was simple, but unforgettable. I even remember where I was when I heard it.

He's the first person I ever heard make the point that we need to stop telling black children that they are destined to fail. He instead suggested telling them they had the power to be anything they wanted to be in this great country. He was confident they would succeed if only they knew they could...but there is so much poison out there.

What Rush said really resonated with me. All children need to feel like the future is filled with possibilities.

I'm sure you have your impression of him for a reason, but I thought you'd like to hear that.

671 Gus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:43:18pm

re: #638 Alouette

Obama should not divide Jerusalem because...it's not his to give away Instead we should...let the Israelis deal with it as they see fit

Obama should not appease and negotiate with terrorists because...it is a display of weakness and submissiveness and encourages them to commit more atrocities A better alternative would be to...beat their asses until they cry for us to stop

Obama willl weaken our country and bring us down to the level of the Europeans. This is a dangerous path because....Europeans have sucky sports.

That suddenly reminded me of Letterman's Top 10 Lists:

And the number one reason we shouldn't be like Europe! They like soccer!

//

672 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:43:23pm
'I'm having a very good crisis,' says Soros as hedge fund managers make billions off recession

They gonna tax him? Who wants to put money on "no".

673 Darleen  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:43:27pm

#631 Charles

You can have brains, you can even understand that being Democrat-lite is NOT the way to win elections

but unless you have the courage to face an entrenched Left, then all the brains in the world mean naught.

Do you honestly believe genuflecting and apologizing to every bad faith Obamabot that screams "Racist!" or "Homophobe!:" or goes Howard "Republicans want to starve children and kill the elderly" Dean is going to GAIN the respect of fence sitters?

Oh yeah, look how well McCain did.

674 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:43:31pm

re: #657 Walter L. Newton

Are you not watching LOST?

Tonight was supposed to be the series finale for Life On Mars, but now it's going to be next week. I'm going to miss that show; it's like I get to live 1973 all over again.

675 jorline  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:43:43pm

re: #606 Dark_Falcon

I'm OK. Today was a good day, but this month has been brutal. I'm not going to make quota. I don't expect to lose my job over that this time, but if it happens again in April, I may be out. That said, I have been getting better at sales and tomorrow morning I'm talking to my mortgage broker about the new loans programs. I'm one of the few who might benefit from those programs and if I am, I'll have turned the corner on getting myself on good financial footing.

I wish the best for you Dark.

676 Mich-again  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:43:44pm

re: #665 Salamantis

He's as bad as f*ing Huckabee.

Vomit on keyboard alert.

677 iLikeCandy  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:43:45pm

re: #629 MandyManners

I know I'm not the only one who realizes that rebuilding the GOP will be painless.

Are you missing a NOT in that sentence?

678 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:43:58pm

re: #664 traderjoe9

19 minutes!

Wow, did we have a time-flash and now Killgore is traderjoe?

679 Bloodnok  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:44:02pm

re: #667 Dar ul Harbarian

I'm so glad we had this time, together...
Just to have a laugh and sing a song.
.......

*tugs earlobe* Bye.

680 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:44:05pm

re: #667 Dar ul Harbarian

I'm so glad we had this time, together...
Just to have a laugh and sing a song.
.......

Seems we just get started...
And before you know it...

681 Sosigado  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:44:07pm

re: #668 Occasional Reader

Did Limbaugh actually do that? Did he just say "I want him to fail", and then sign off?

No

682 Aviator  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:44:32pm

re: #668 Occasional Reader

Did Limbaugh actually do that? Did he just say "I want him to fail", and then sign off?

My understanding is he said he wanted him to fail to institute his socialist policies and what he said was twisted.

683 JohnAdams  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:44:36pm

A good thread. Healthy.

684 Occasional Reader  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:44:43pm

re: #648 Afrocity

I am groggy but cannot sleep. They have some cranberry juice and gave me footies. I have a nurse because I live by myself. I just wish they would take out IV, it makes my arm cold.

Cranberry juice has caffeine, I think, which might explain why you're not sleeping.

685 reine.de.tout  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:44:50pm

re: #668 Occasional Reader

Did Limbaugh actually do that? Did he just say "I want him to fail", and then sign off?

Limbaugh is not running for office, is he?
Is he part of forming the Rep. party platform?

Limbaugh may have expressed what he wanted done . . . but he is not in a position within the party to form a platform. Jindal is.

686 itellu3times  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:45:03pm

I'm watching American Idol.

On this ancient 600mhz workstation, LGF interface runs reaaaal slow. Takes about a whole song to type, post, and refresh.

687 lobo91  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:45:04pm

re: #607 Dan G.

So they haven't used force against you. Do you deny that they forward and support laws that are based on religious beliefs on those who don't espouse those same beliefs?

Who's "they?"

688 Sosigado  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:45:06pm

re: #666 Walter L. Newton

What up Avanti? What happened? Do you want to share with us?

Putin must have finally replied to one of his e-mails.

689 Afrocity  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:45:35pm

re: #666 Walter L. Newton

What up Avanti? What happened? Do you want to share with us?

I know there is still good in Avanti, I can feel it.

Afrocity: Espisode III-Revenge of the LIBS

690 Pupdawg  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:45:40pm

My 'hope he fails' short list:

with his on-going great experiment in Socialism for America

with his 'no ceiling' tax and spend agenda

at bailing out unions and private businesses in general

at controling all media in America

at national universal health care which will bankrupt this country

at shunning our often tried and truest of allies like Great Britain

at lying

at prostituting the nation to the backroom pimps of Chicago-style politics

at the castration of our military, CIA, Homeland Security and FBI

at destroying the 1st and 2nd Amendments to the Constitution

at ending the war on terror or whatever terminology he wishes to placebo it up with with terrorists still waging war against us

AT WINNING A SECOND TERM

at his crisis manipulation used for increasing governmental intrusions into our lives

with the MSM

at destroying or at minimum eroding the America many of us love

at buying the banking and mortgage industries for pennies on the dollar

at putting my children and grandchildren into figurative debtors prison before they can even earn wages to be taken by higher and higher taxes

at continuing to go unchallenged while pissing on my Nikes and telling me it is raining

at his educational reform which is a public system of socialism and community organization in the classroom

at destroying capitalism in America

at trying to own and run private businesses when in reality they could not run a whore house with free booze and 1/2 off for men Monday thru Sunday

at blaming Bush for everything

at his bullshitting

with his liberal agenda

691 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:45:41pm

re: #673 Darleen

Do you honestly believe genuflecting and apologizing to every bad faith Obamabot that screams "Racist!" or "Homophobe!:" or goes Howard "Republicans want to starve children and kill the elderly" Dean is going to GAIN the respect of fence sitters?

I suggest you read what I wrote, because you're putting words in my mouth that bear no resemblance to what I actually said.

692 avanti  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:45:42pm

re: #639 Zimriel

The place to do that would be Freddoso's "The Case Against Obama". (Do NOT read Corsi. It's no use going from being a respectable liberal, as I believe you to be, to being a troofer whack-o.) It's not just a hatchet job; it's an education on how wheels get greased in a major port city.

Thanks, but I've made my bed by voting for BHO, now I have 4 years to see if I made the right choice, or if it's time to fire him. All I ask, is give me a better choice then bad, or worse next trip.

693 Randall Gross  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:45:45pm

re: #673 Darleen

So if we don't agree with Rush we are automatically democrat lite or Rhino?

/nice

694 Shug  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:45:53pm

OT

anybody notice that the new space station toilet will be named after Stephen Colbert?

I thought Colbert was what went into the toilet, and not the actual toilet

695 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:46:12pm
696 Palandine  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:46:19pm

re: #586 MandyManners

Cantor voted for the bonus tax.

Well, shoot, then let's wait until we have someone perfect. I know you're not saying that, but this is how we ended up with John McCain as the Republican nominee.

The dems won because they did EVERYTHING--they articulated their message, they had a good candidate, and they were relentlessly negative for 8 years. They also had the benefit of owning the mainstream media and most institutes of higher education. Not whining, just saying that's how it was. They shape opinion. My sainted mother, to this day, believes Bush was bad because "the whole world hated him" and although she disagrees with Obama's policies, she second-guesses herself on that because "everybody loves him." Well, everybody loves him because they're too scared, and too scared of being seen as 'mean', if they note that the emperor teleprompter has no clothes.

No, we shouldn't just say, "I want Obama to fail." We should articulate our side, which the Republican party continues to be terrible at. But Bush was far too nice during his presidency, at the cost of defending himself from scurrilous attacks. We need to say Obama is wrong, and we need to say why.

697 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:46:20pm

re: #689 Afrocity

I know there is still good in Avanti, I can feel it.

Afrocity: Espisode III-Revenge of the LIBS

I'm being really nosey, but, what did you have done today, and are you on some really good happy drugs?

698 cronus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:46:34pm

Good night all.

699 Bumr50  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:46:44pm

We need to educate people as to why he failed, after the fact. We cannot allow our children and the sheeple to listen to whatever spin merchants are left explain how it's our fault because we were just "obstructionists" along the path to progressive utopia.
Education is the key, and where we need to wage our staunchest efforts.
Too many of our young people don't identify themselves as Americans, other than in the sense that they know we are a free country, but have achieved that freedom on the backs of indefensible groups of people.
The shift to teach TRUE research techniques, objective analysis, and (yes, Charles) true scientific methodology much trump almost everything else that we attempt.
We are surrounded by ineptitude and ignorance.

700 itellu3times  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:47:14pm

re: #684 Occasional Reader

Cranberry juice has caffeine, I think, which might explain why you're not sleeping.

I think not, fwiw. Usually has added sugar up wazoo, however.

701 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:47:19pm

re: #669 Afrocity

I read Corsi...Is that Obamanation. I read it because the Chicago GOP reccomended it. Said that is all I need to give any Obamabot and they would be cured. What happened to Corsi anyway?

He became King of the Nirthers, and hence lost all credibility.

702 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:47:48pm
703 Killer Tomato  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:47:48pm

I'd love to stay, but I'm already in a PO'd mood - left work at 9:30 to find I'd been in an office building alone, and the front door was propped open. Swell.

I'm going to try and calm down and get some sleep.

Afrocity - you take care and HEAL!

704 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:48:09pm

re: #692 avanti

Thanks, but I've made my bed by voting for BHO, now I have 4 years to see if I made the right choice, or if it's time to fire him. All I ask, is give me a better choice then bad, or worse next trip.

DOn't give up on him yet. You may have made the right choice, and four years from now, we will all be apologizing to you and wiping the egg off our faces.

NOT FOOL!

705 Wendya  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:48:11pm

re: #519 Dan G.

I do know that she wasn't experienced enough for the job. More, experience than Obama? Sure, but that's not good enough.


I really despair when I see the same elitist meme repeated endlessly. I would take a governor over 3 senators any day of the week. You see, they actually have executive experience whereas senators have none. I find it disgusting that Obama, McCain and Biden were all considered experienced enough for the job but the ONE person who actually was qualified was dismissed as a silly little girl.

706 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:48:27pm

re: #689 Afrocity

I know there is still good in Avanti, I can feel it.

Afrocity: Espisode III-Revenge of the LIBS

Hey, I didn't know you were under the weather. What's the matter?

707 Mich-again  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:48:32pm

re: #690 Pupdawg

There were actually a few good points sprinkled in there among that cliche ridden list of why Ann Coulter hates liberals. .

708 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:48:42pm
709 hazzyday  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:48:54pm

re: #673 Darleen

I think you are reading more into this or reading the wrong map then what was being said.

710 MandyManners  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:49:19pm

re: #631 Charles

I'd rather see conservatives find their BRAINS. Thinking with your balls tends to cause problems.

I don't often choke on laughter here. Goodness.

711 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:49:31pm

re: #689 Afrocity

I know there is still good in Avanti, I can feel it.

Afrocity: Espisode III-Revenge of the LIBS

Featuring the unmasking of the evil Sith mastermind, Darth Soros.

712 Randall Gross  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:49:40pm

Strategically when the Republicans have been down and out they've always recovered by becoming the adults. That's why even in bad years in the past we managed control through the senate - somehow that strategy got kicked to the curb, but it's the only one that will get us back in the saddle. Becoming the party of petulance is not only unbecoming, it's going to get us the big lose in 2010.

713 Wendya  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:49:46pm

re: #612 JohnAdams

I won't speak for Charles because I think he did a good job of saying it for himself. I think the point is that no matter how much you despise Obama's policies and goals, the BEST way to stop him is to offer BETTER policies and goals, and to pursue them everyday through the channels of government. In the end this is the only thing that will actually win hearts and minds. It's just simple psychology. Publicly tearing away at Obama is ultimately just more of the same old same old, and hardens the opposition. Same way that the Dems tearing away at Rush has pumped his ratings through the roof. In politics it seems that a disciplined strategy is more effective than an outright attack, which admittedly feels better. Just my take.

Could you explain to us how you pursue your policies when you are in the minority and the majority refuses to let your legislation come out of committee and they limit your ability to even offer amendments?

714 kynna  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:49:47pm

We've got four years of fight ahead of us. I don't think 'Obama needs to fail at implementing socialist policies in the US' is a bad place to start. Start, I said. People are not nearly as concerned about what the man is proposing as they should be. A little shock and awe is not a bad thing.

And I agree with the above poster. Wanting George Bush to fail at winning a war and wanting Barrak Obama to fail at remaking our country into a socialist dump are two totally different things.

I'm sorry, but the so-called 'moderate' wing of the party is extremely demanding -- right down to the speech it will allow. I wonder who in the world they will find to vote for in the coming years.

Necessary disclaimer: I don't agree with Jindal's creationism, and I'm not impressed with him so far on the national level. Not defending him per se. Just wondering why there have to be so darn many rules.

715 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:50:04pm

re: #693 Thanos

That's the point. If you don't lock-step line toe with every bloviating, talking head that proclaims him/herself a conservative, then you're obviously a libtard or a RINO. There is no room for disagreement.
///

716 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:50:13pm
717 MandyManners  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:50:17pm

re: #634 Sharmuta

Did you mean painful?

Oh.

Yes.

Thank you.

718 Gus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:50:34pm

re: #711 Dark_Falcon

Featuring the unmasking of the evil Sith mastermind, Darth Soros.

With his side kick: Mini-Me Mini-Soros.

//

719 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:50:35pm

re: #708 ploome hineni

that is what email is for

to pretend that privacy is a good thing

Hey, she can answer for herself. If she doesn't want to tell me, she'll say so. Keep your nose out of my comments.

720 TheMatrix31  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:50:40pm

re: #696 Palandine

No, we shouldn't just say, "I want Obama to fail." We should articulate our side, which the Republican party continues to be terrible at.

Definitely, but it feels like some think we shouldn't even say we want him to fail at all.

721 Darleen  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:50:49pm

Charles, Thanos

This is beyond Rush. I don't defend Rush because I don't listen to him. However, look what happened to Bill Bennet and Tony Snow. Look at any non-Leftist that speaks publicly -- not only are their words taken out of context, they are REWRITTEN by Leftists who then fall into faux outrage.

It is part and parcel of what Islamofascists do with things like Muhammed cartoons...where the object of their hatred and outrage just shuts up out of frustration, weariness or fear.

Excuse me but Republicans HAVE BEEN OFFERING ALTERNATIVE BUDGETS. But you know, the MSM is IGNORING them. Just as Obama in his press conference ignores the American military.

722 bebe's boobs destroy  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:51:08pm

re: #557 newsjunkie_ky

Yeah, well everyone seems to be forgetting that 'ol Bobby flip flopped and signed that pay raise. He can't be trusted based on that alone.

723 Occasional Reader  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:51:34pm

re: #685 reine.de.tout

Limbaugh is not running for office, is he?
Is he part of forming the Rep. party platform?

Er, no... but I'm not quite sure of the relevance of the question.


but he is not in a position within the party to form a platform. Jindal is.

But Jindal didn't just say "I want him to fail. Thank you! Enjoy the buffet! Good night!" either. He seemed to be making the same point as many of us on this thread; depends on what you're talking about with "fail".

724 realwest  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:51:35pm

re: #587 Charles
Charles, respectfully, if Obama succeeds, or is even just borderline not so bad, that means that the country will be taking such a far LEFT swing that we'll be into Socialism - a system that has never worked well anywhere it's been tried.
I'm not saying I want America to fail; I want America to succeed IN SPITE of Obama's wrong headed policies. But you don't get from here to there by not saying his policies are WRONG and heres why: a-z and aa-zz.
Obama won his election for a lot of reasons, but the three most significant reasons, to my way of thinking are these: a) he had the MSM in his pocket from the jump - against Hillary too; thus the MSM NEVER asked Obama any hard questions at all and in fact when an average American Citizen, Joe the now Famous plumber asked him a perfectly legitimate question, the MSM tore Joe's life apart b) money - I don't know where Obama got all of his money, but he got it from enough sources where the amount was so small the ID of the donar was not required to be disclosed, that he outspent McCain 7-1 in the General Election (and of course he MSM should have asked him, as McCain did in one debate, and weakly at that,"Why did you agree to accept public funding, then when McCain also agreed to accept public funding, you reneged on your word and became the first Presidential candidate in over 20 years to not take public funding?") and ACORN - their participation in voter fraud, particularly among young, college students ("Why you know you can register to vote in the state where your college is located and vote for Obama there, then go home or use absentee ballot to vote for Obama in the state where your parents live") has led several states to investigate their role in the 2008 elections amidst charges of voter fraud and intimidation.
I don't want America to fail, but I surely don't want Barack Obama to succeed, because he's gonna be succeeding (if he does) by creating so many new entitlement programs our economy will be in a permanent hole and folks will no longer accept personal responsibility for their failings, but will look to the "nanny state" to take care of them.
I don't frankly think there's ANY sort of positive message that the GOP could come up with that would defeat that trifecta.

725 Bumr50  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:51:39pm

I keep saying that I feel trapped in the GOP as I live in a state with closed primaries.

726 Afrocity  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:51:44pm

re: #670 capitalist piglet

I am ok with Rush. I like him. He is dead on about Obama. He is right. My mom was always telling me that the deck was stacked against me. They mean no harm. They say they did not want us to have high expectations. Blacks need to stop that, but what can you except when a 14 year old has a child? My mom was 31 when she had me, 15 when she had my brother. I went to college, got masters degree- he dropped out of high school, but joined army. There is a big difference. Blacks need to stop self fulfilling prophesy of failure.

727 Gearhead  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:51:46pm

re: #711 Dark_Falcon

Featuring the unmasking of the evil Sith mastermind, Darth Soros.

Come to think of it, he probably does have enough money to fund two opposing armies.

728 kynna  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:51:47pm

re: #599 MandyManners

Can't we just not say that we want FCBBHO's Commie policies to fail?

I'm not sure if we can say it, but I sure do want it.

729 MandyManners  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:52:10pm

re: #642 Slumbering Behemoth

It's cool. I've been wearing my cranky pants today, myself.

Since The Kid's been on vacation at a distant location, I've been wonderfully free from domestic sources of crankiness.

730 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:52:11pm
731 avanti  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:52:21pm

re: #666 Walter L. Newton

What up Avanti? What happened? Do you want to share with us?

I'm headed out with my friend to the casino in the A.M., both my Studebakers are going together nicely, life is good this month. Mostly, I just heard the Commie stuff so often, it's lost it's sting a bit.

732 JohnAdams  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:52:24pm

re: #664 traderjoe9

19 minutes!

Already saw it! You won't believe what happened! So Sayid....nah, wouldn't do that to a lizard.re: #705 Wendya

I really despair when I see the same elitist meme repeated endlessly. I would take a governor over 3 senators any day of the week. You see, they actually have executive experience whereas senators have none. I find it disgusting that Obama, McCain and Biden were all considered experienced enough for the job but the ONE person who actually was qualified was dismissed as a silly little girl.

Geez, it was hard to admit you liked Sarah, at least in some of the circles I run in. But I did. She kind of reminded me of my late mother.

733 itellu3times  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:52:54pm

re: #712 Thanos

Comes down to candidates, too. Individuals who are themselves positive, current, engaged, engaging, clean and articulate, and can avoid gaffes.

734 Rob with a mind  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:53:00pm

I've Seen Enough! In 60 + days this arrogant ass has shoved his Socialist crap down our throats. HE WON? Then screw him. I hope he and the dirt bag leftists that have all but tagged my kids with another 3 and 1/2 TRILLION dollar debt. Hell yes I hope he fails!

735 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:53:10pm

re: #403 SanFranciscoZionist

Troll, like pork, is fairly versatile. I understand that many people recommend a Beaujolais. Riesling and Pinot Noir are also popular. With Asian sauces, beer is always good.

Ehhhh, troll, like pork, is trayf.

736 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:53:27pm

re: #602 Cognito

You're all over it, Charles.

The stickier question, for me, is whether I want him to wildly succeed. To face the possible truth that the Keynesian model -- big state, big spending -- actually works. Yikes.

There's no arguing with success, as the man said.

So the fear is that we can print enough money to make us all millionaires?

737 MandyManners  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:53:35pm

re: #665 Salamantis

RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY
RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY
RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY
RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY
RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY
RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY
RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY
RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY

738 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:53:43pm

re: #724 realwest

Please read what I wrote.

I DID NOT SAY WE SHOULDN'T CRITICIZE OBAMA.

Sorry for shouting. But this is getting ridiculous.

739 Irish Rose  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:53:48pm

re: #715 Slumbering Behemoth

That's the point. If you don't lock-step line toe with every bloviating, talking head that proclaims him/herself a conservative, then you're obviously a libtard or a RINO. There is no room for disagreement.
///

I can't tell you how many times I've been called a RINO, libtard, Kossack, or Dem light by the circular firing squad over at Malkins.

740 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:53:53pm

re: #530 Dar ul Harbarian

Oh No! It's Hirrary Crinton!

After I went to Team America: World Police, I mentioned to my parents that I'd seen it. Neither of them would ever dream of seeing it, but they were pleased that I had, so they could confirm media reports. "Kim Jong Il actually sings?" my mother asked, with a look of mild horror and fascination.

741 Last Mohican  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:54:17pm

re: #573 avanti

Heck, if someone as rational as Charles and some others on LGF were running the GOP I might lean more toward "your" side. But, alas I suspect the moderate voices will be silenced.

Maybe some day. But in 2008, the moderate voices were not silenced. In fact, the moderate voice received the GOP nomination for the presidency. But you chose to vote for the extremist voice instead.

742 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:54:22pm

re: #718 Gus 802

With his side kick: Mini-Me Mini-Soros.

//

No his sidekick is his apprentice, Darth Bama. Next year we will see the next part of the saga: Episode IV: A New Hype. In that one Darth Bama tries to defend his evil Debt Star form the cockpit of his LIE Advancedx1.

743 Randall Gross  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:54:34pm

re: #721 Darleen

Offering but not selling. I can offer a budget, but I have to sell it with a positive. They failed to do that. Don't blame the MSM, it's just another form of the whine.

744 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:54:50pm
745 Jack Burton  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:54:50pm

re: #649 reine.de.tout

Saying "you're wrong", must be followed by a "and here's why", and then a "and here's the alternative".

Unfortunately that does not fit in a GDMFMSM sound byte. They will focus in on what they want to and I can guarantee it wont be anything that makes you sound good. That is the very reason right there why ever saying "I want Obama to fail" regardless of whether it is followed by in depth explanation or analysis of what you meant or not, is a bad idea right now. We aren't going to get to elaborate. The people in this thread who are coming unglued about this... why cant you understand this simple fact?

This is the major problem getting conservative ideas out to people at all. Our ideas are generally more adult for complex issues and require explanation that we never will be given time for. The left's fluffy bullshit sounds great in 5-30 seconds even though just about every idea coming out of the American left right now is completely vominous when you examine them with any diligence.

746 rain of lead  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:54:57pm

wow, this is a fun thread, pro-con and everything in between.

Thanks Charles!

747 MandyManners  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:55:02pm

re: #737 MandyManners

*whimper*

*sob*

*bawl*

748 Mich-again  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:55:03pm

re: #691 Charles

There are more Strawmen here than in the Corn Belt.

749 Afrocity  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:55:07pm

re: #719 Walter L. Newton

Hey, she can answer for herself. If she doesn't want to tell me, she'll say so. Keep your nose out of my comments.

Walter sorry did not see. Some adominal stuff was done. and I am on something that starts with a V and is in my tubes.

750 avanti  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:55:07pm

re: #689 Afrocity

I know there is still good in Avanti, I can feel it.

Afrocity: Espisode III-Revenge of the LIBS

The Obama youth has released a special drug into the waters around the USA. We'll all be riding unicorns over the rainbow by the weekend.

751 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:56:01pm

re: #731 avanti

I'm headed out with my friend to the casino in the A.M., both my Studebakers are going together nicely, life is good this month. Mostly, I just heard the Commie stuff so often, it's lost it's sting a bit.

Yea, I know what you mean. When I was younger, people kept warning me about communism, and trying to scare me, but later in life, when I became one, like you, I realized that it really didn't hurt that much.

Now, I just ignore those comments. Hell, I vote for socialists, take advantage of the public dole as much as I can, wait for the country to go into economic fits and make a few bucks off of other peoples financial misfortunes, you know, all that stuff.

Yea, I like to forget about all that once in a while, take a little day trip.

I got your back Avanti.

752 JohnAdams  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:56:07pm

re: #713 Wendya

Could you explain to us how you pursue your policies when you are in the minority and the majority refuses to let your legislation come out of committee and they limit your ability to even offer amendments?

You are in the US Congress. Everywhere you go, the press and all kinds of hardworking people are waiting to hear what you think. You use every means at your disposal to get your positive message out (not saying you can't knock a few skulls around first). Otherwise, put on your jammies and have some warm milk and go watch Oprah.

753 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:56:16pm

re: #712 Thanos

Strategically when the Republicans have been down and out they've always recovered by becoming the adults. That's why even in bad years in the past we managed control through the senate - somehow that strategy got kicked to the curb, but it's the only one that will get us back in the saddle. Becoming the party of petulance is not only unbecoming, it's going to get us the big lose in 2010.

I agree. I get a BIG hoot outta folks who holler that acting like democrats/leftists won't get us anywhere, and then go on to act like democrats/leftists (i.e. petulant children).

754 Pupdawg  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:56:37pm

Having a Zell Miller, Elivis Presley, Malcolm X moment...many of us did not leave the GOP, the GOP has left us...ladies and gentlemen your attention please, the GOP has left the building...we did not land on the party, the party landed on us.

755 Gearhead  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:56:38pm

re: #747 MandyManners

*whimper*

*sob*

*bawl*

1 stinkin' electoral vote for the one person who could have (figuratively) handed either Clinton or Obama their heads in November.

756 MandyManners  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:56:49pm

re: #677 iLikeCandy

Are you missing a NOT in that sentence?

YES.

757 iLikeCandy  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:56:53pm

re: #721 Darleen

Exactly, Darleen. The MSM conveys nary a word of Republican proposals, and then says we have nothing to offer.

Those here who say we have to quit being the Party of No have got to quit believing our enemies. I say again, our attitude towards ourselves is getting to be like the left's attitude towards America. Self-criticism is one thing, but we're buying into the lies and evasions and distortions about us.

758 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:57:03pm

re: #750 avanti

The Obama youth has released a special drug into the waters around the USA. We'll all be riding unicorns over the rainbow by the weekend.

Should I practice up on my Judy Garland to prepare? :D

759 Randall Gross  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:57:21pm

re: #733 itellu3times

Comes down to candidates, too. Individuals who are themselves positive, current, engaged, engaging, clean and articulate, and can avoid gaffes.

I don't even care about gaffes, those can be overcome as Ronald Reagan made several himself. Saying you want the president of the United States to fail is so far beyond Gaffehood that it takes light four years to get there. The light will arrive as they count the ballots 11/2/2012.

760 Occasional Reader  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:57:41pm

My cat's breath smells like cat food.

761 hazzyday  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:57:45pm

re: #739 Irish Rose

I can't tell you how many times I've been called a RINO, libtard, Kossack, or Dem light by the circular firing squad over at Malkins.

Remember, half the internet population is probably looney tunes.

762 Afrocity  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:58:11pm

re: #750 avanti

The Obama youth has released a special drug into the waters around the USA. We'll all be riding unicorns over the rainbow by the weekend.

You are breaking I can feel it. Let go of your anger.

763 Bumr50  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:58:25pm

This is why I defend Rush.
Your text to link...

764 huckfunn  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:58:30pm

And now for some Obamaomics

Youtube Video
765 Macker  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:58:34pm

re: #15 JammieWearingFool

We want his socialist policies to fail. Nothing wrong with saying that.

The left wanted Bush to fail and they mostly succeeeded at making it happen.

I want America to succeed. I want the left to fail.

If I could upding you a MILLION times, I would!
I tend to write БХО's name in Cyrillic characters wherever I go, because of his far-left stance. Technically, he's a neo-Marxist. I prefer the term Dirty F**kin' Communist. And his party, the Demo☭rats?
Need I say more?

766 Mich-again  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:58:36pm

re: #761 hazzyday

Remember, half the internet population is probably looney tunes.

I think the ratio is Pi/4.

767 capitalist piglet  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:58:38pm

re: #726 Afrocity

I am ok with Rush. I like him. He is dead on about Obama. He is right. My mom was always telling me that the deck was stacked against me. They mean no harm. They say they did not want us to have high expectations. Blacks need to stop that, but what can you except when a 14 year old has a child? My mom was 31 when she had me, 15 when she had my brother. I went to college, got masters degree- he dropped out of high school, but joined army. There is a big difference. Blacks need to stop self fulfilling prophesy of failure.

I understand where the thinking comes from. A pastor I know is black, and talks about this a lot (when he was a child he really had it pounded into his thinking, literally, that white people hated him and were out to get him - his relatives were trying to ready him for the world they thought he would face as a grown man). I just wonder what America would look like if every child of ever color believed in himself and in his opportunity to fulfill his dreams.

768 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:59:00pm

re: #760 Occasional Reader

My cat's breath smells like cat food.

My breath smells of cat. Were the hell did my kitty go?

769 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:59:07pm

re: #757 iLikeCandy

Exactly, Darleen. The MSM conveys nary a word of Republican proposals, and then says we have nothing to offer.

Those here who say we have to quit being the Party of No have got to quit believing our enemies. I say again, our attitude towards ourselves is getting to be like the left's attitude towards America. Self-criticism is one thing, but we're buying into the lies and evasions and distortions about us.

Wrong.

When the GOP's shining new hope, Bobby Jindal, comes out with a response to Barack Obama's press conference in which THE MAIN POINT is that it's OK to wish for Obama to fail, there is a serious problem here.

I could not care less what the left says about it. These are MY opinions.

770 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:59:25pm

re: #744 Iron Fist

Good luck. I know that these are trying times. Try and remember that this is only temporary. That sometimes works for me.

It may be temporary, but if I don't keep my eyes on the ball, It'll get worse. I don't intend to let that happen. Thank you for your support.

771 Occasional Reader  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:59:25pm

Paste tastes funny!

772 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:59:32pm

re: #673 Darleen

McCain came within 8 percentage points, 54-46, of winning the presidency. One changed vote his way in 25 would have given him a tie. He was actually ahead in the polls before the financial collapse. Of course the party in power was (unjustifiably) blamed for it, and McCain had the misfortune to be running on that party's presidential ticket at that time. Had that not happened, and had he not compounded the negative association by first erroneously pronouncing the economy as fundamentally sound and then bugging out on his own convention to hobnob about the mess, as if a senator and unelected presidential candidate could fix it that quickly, I still believe that McCain would have been elected president.

773 Maximu§  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:59:36pm

re: #760 Occasional Reader

My cat's breath smells like cat food.

As is should...I hope you bought the gourmet cat food.

774 avanti  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 8:59:38pm

re: #741 Last Mohican

Maybe some day. But in 2008, the moderate voices were not silenced. In fact, the moderate voice received the GOP nomination for the presidency. But you chose to vote for the extremist voice instead.

I know this pisses you off, but the Palin pick killed it for me. It was McCain's first presidential decision and he punted to the religious right. Yes, that did help with his base, but he lost me and many others.

775 Ojoe  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:00:01pm
The Republican Party is in reactionary denial mode, refusing to look at the real problems that cost them the last two major elections. Unless the party can find a positive message and articulate it clearly, we’re going to have Democratic presidents for the foreseeable future.

Yes, and the Democrats are in the grip of their own far left fringe.

Time for a new party. We seem to be in a tough enough place that a new central party might work. Certainly with two parties only, there is no place for the center; the number two has no center.

Anyway, check out the Modern Whigs, I'm not saying they are the only possibility, but IMHO the country badly needs a center party & let the loonies have the other two parties, they have them already in fact.

Modern Whig Party.

776 MandyManners  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:00:01pm

re: #696 Palandine

Well, shoot, then let's wait until we have someone perfect. I know you're not saying that, but this is how we ended up with John McCain as the Republican nominee.

The dems won because they did EVERYTHING--they articulated their message, they had a good candidate, and they were relentlessly negative for 8 years. They also had the benefit of owning the mainstream media and most institutes of higher education. Not whining, just saying that's how it was. They shape opinion. My sainted mother, to this day, believes Bush was bad because "the whole world hated him" and although she disagrees with Obama's policies, she second-guesses herself on that because "everybody loves him." Well, everybody loves him because they're too scared, and too scared of being seen as 'mean', if they note that the emperor teleprompter has no clothes.

No, we shouldn't just say, "I want Obama to fail." We should articulate our side, which the Republican party continues to be terrible at. But Bush was far too nice during his presidency, at the cost of defending himself from scurrilous attacks. We need to say Obama is wrong, and we need to say why.

BULLSHIT.

The GOP needs a Pelosi.

777 Gearhead  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:00:26pm

re: #760 Occasional Reader

My cat's breath smells like cat food.

Wait till he/she finishes the post-litterbox bath.

778 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:00:33pm

re: #774 avanti

I know this pisses you off, but the Palin pick killed it for me. It was McCain's first presidential decision and he punted to the religious right. Yes, that did help with his base, but he lost me and many others.

Yea, right, and guess what, John Lennon is not dead.

779 iLikeCandy  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:01:06pm

re: #737 MandyManners

RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY
RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY
RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY
RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY
RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY
RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY
RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY
RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY

Arggh, I still dream, too.

780 MandyManners  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:01:08pm

re: #702 ploome hineni

think with your brains, and have the balls CLITORIS to follow through

:D

781 Wendya  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:01:23pm

re: #752 JohnAdams

You are in the US Congress. Everywhere you go, the press and all kinds of hardworking people are waiting to hear what you think. You use every means at your disposal to get your positive message out (not saying you can't knock a few skulls around first). Otherwise, put on your jammies and have some warm milk and go watch Oprah.

Uh.... have you noticed how much coverage the press is giving to republican alternatives?

How much media time do they get when they make impassioned pleas to stop the insanity moving through the house and the senate? Are you seeing those speeches on the evening news or do you just hear about how the republicans are obstructionists?

If you think the republicans can force the media to give them anything resembling fair coverage, I've got rainforest acreage in New Mexico to sell you.

782 capitalist piglet  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:01:28pm

re: #737 MandyManners

RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY
RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY
RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY
RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY
RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY
RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY
RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY
RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY RUDY

I wanted Rudy too.

783 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:01:40pm

Lots of hate mail coming in now.

784 Macker  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:01:57pm

re: #776 MandyManners

Pelosi is a frakkin' loon! Why would the GOP need their own?

785 Darleen  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:02:01pm

Thanos

I can offer a budget, but I have to sell it with a positive

Wait a minute ... Nancy Pelosi is running the House.... NANCY PELOSI, who wouldn't piss on a Republican if that Republican was on fire. She has even shut the GOP OUT of committee meetings.

I'm only surprised she didn't have the Republican offices closed down and their desks tossed on the sidewalks.

at that point the only thing to GOP can do is try to take it to the public and the MSM, wing of the DNC is not listening.

Or did you miss where Gov. Sanford sent a letter to Obama about trying to get the strings to Fed $$$ undone and was answered with an attack ad from MoveOn.org in lieu of an answer from the White House.

786 Gus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:02:01pm

re: #769 Charles

Wrong.

When the GOP's shining new hope, Bobby Jindal, comes out with a response to Barack Obama's press conference in which THE MAIN POINT is that it's OK to wish for Obama to fail, there is a serious problem here.

I could not care less what the left says about it. These are MY opinions.

Which is what the American people will only see: a Republican hoping the president fail. A lot of independent voters don't see things as ideologically divided and that rhetoric is objectionable to their values. They're not listening to the MSM nor the left but make that judgement purely on their own. If the only message is one calling out for failure than that message itself will fail.

787 itellu3times  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:02:08pm

re: #762 Afrocity

LOL!

788 Bloodnok  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:02:36pm

re: #783 Charles

Lots of hate mail coming in now.

12 downdings. Most I've seen on a post in awhile.

789 Macker  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:02:55pm

re: #783 Charles

Lots of hate mail coming in now.

Inquiring Minds Want To Know where it's coming from!
Do I smell a "We Got Mail!" thread coming up?

790 Gus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:03:00pm

re: #783 Charles

Lots of hate mail coming in now.

Introspection is forbidden in some circles.

Self-criticism is also not allowed.

791 Shug  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:03:08pm

I love hate mail. Do share

792 Ojoe  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:03:19pm

re: #783 Charles

From "Republicans"? If so, not a good sign.

793 Afrocity  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:03:32pm

re: #774 avanti

I know this pisses you off, but the Palin pick killed it for me. It was McCain's first presidential decision and he punted to the religious right. Yes, that did help with his base, but he lost me and many others.

No, before you said you felt she was incompetent and had no experience I remember. Yet Obama has less experience then Palin. That makes little sense to me when Obama's lack of experience shows. You must know by now that you have erred in your ways.

794 Occasional Reader  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:04:11pm

I met ayont the cairney
A lass wi' tousie hair
Singin' till a bairnie
That was nae langer there.

Wunds wi' warlds to swing
Dinna sing sae sweet,
The licht that bends owre a' thing
Is less ta'en up wi't.

-Hugh MacDiarmid

Good night.

795 wong fei hung  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:04:18pm

The comments in this post have been fascinating. I really appreciate most of the views presented here, whether I agree or not.

It seems to me that if Obama's economic gambit fails, we all lose. Duh.

Yet, if his social agenda comes to fruition, we all... lose. Again, duh.

Talk about a no-win situation.

Now, considering Secretaries Geithner and Clinton's comments today (on the US dollar and the Mexican Drug War-spillover), does anyone NEED to say they hope these people fail? Aren't they doing a good enough job of failing as it is? It's like telling a simpleton you hope he bombs the SAT.

What I DO hope, is that we stop waiting for Palin or Jindal or Steele or Zombie Reagan or whomever to "resurrect" Conservatism. Conservatism was never meant to be Liberalism-in-drag nor was it meant to be a Trojan Horse for religiosity. I say, this dog is covered in Specter, Gingrich and Ralph Reed fleas - and nobody knows where the f*cking shampoo is.

Partaking in the type of snickering childishness the left was so fond of during the Bush II years gains us NOTHING. Leave the proselytizing to the Christian Coalition. Leave the spitballs to the lowbrows in high-chairs at HuffPo and Kos. It's all on us, folks. We ARE the cavalry and we need only two weapons: traditional Conservative principle and indignation towards the traitors and cowards on both sides of the aisle.

Ultimately, WE... are the ones we've been waiting for. Ironic, huh?

-WFH

796 MandyManners  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:04:20pm

re: #721 Darleen

Charles, Thanos

This is beyond Rush. I don't defend Rush because I don't listen to him. However, look what happened to Bill Bennet and Tony Snow. Look at any non-Leftist that speaks publicly -- not only are their words taken out of context, they are REWRITTEN by Leftists who then fall into faux outrage.

It is part and parcel of what Islamofascists do with things like Muhammed cartoons...where the object of their hatred and outrage just shuts up out of frustration, weariness or fear.

Excuse me but Republicans HAVE BEEN OFFERING ALTERNATIVE BUDGETS. But you know, the MSM is IGNORING them. Just as Obama in his press conference ignores the American military.

Does the GOP's Website post these budgets

797 Mich-again  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:04:27pm

Blaming Sarah Palin for John McCain's loss? I say no. I can't think of any other running mate McCain could have picked that would have put him over the top.

798 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:04:37pm

re: #653 itellu3times

She was on last night, hope your meds include Tivo! She did OK, she's off to write a book or two.

Another black woman for Afrocity to hang out with (in a hundred and twenty years) at the big RNC in the sky...

/

799 avanti  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:04:42pm

re: #751 Walter L. Newton

Yea, I know what you mean. When I was younger, people kept warning me about communism, and trying to scare me, but later in life, when I became one, like you, I realized that it really didn't hurt that much.

Now, I just ignore those comments. Hell, I vote for socialists, take advantage of the public dole as much as I can, wait for the country to go into economic fits and make a few bucks off of other peoples financial misfortunes, you know, all that stuff.

Yea, I like to forget about all that once in a while, take a little day trip.

I got your back Avanti.

Well, there went my good mood. I'll accept some that call my POTUS a Commie, but calling me a Commie simply because I did not vote for your guy is just friggin wrong.

800 Shug  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:05:02pm

People had meltdowns over criticism of Glenn Beck.
This tells me that there are a lot of unstable people out there

801 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:05:11pm

re: #785 Darleen

Get a grip- no speaker of the house has the authority to kick out other elected members of congress from their seats.

And, you know, maybe the republicans would be getting air time for positive alternative proposals if that air time wasn't being used up by this "fail" business. Instead of a real agenda being discussed, we're talking about Rush. That's great for Rush, but how does it stop 0bama?

802 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:05:12pm

re: #793 Afrocity

No, before you said you felt she was incompetent and had no experience I remember. Yet Obama has less experience then Palin. That makes little sense to me when Obama's lack of experience shows. You must know by now that you have erred in your ways.

He changes his story as much as the weather service changes the forecast.

803 JohnAdams  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:05:15pm

re: #781 Wendya

Uh.... have you noticed how much coverage the press is giving to republican alternatives?

How much media time do they get when they make impassioned pleas to stop the insanity moving through the house and the senate? Are you seeing those speeches on the evening news or do you just hear about how the republicans are obstructionists?

If you think the republicans can force the media to give them anything resembling fair coverage, I've got rainforest acreage in New Mexico to sell you.

It's stacked against us, no doubt. But I saw the country go from the Nixon Watergate travesty to the Reagan Revolution in just 6 years. I saw it go from Clinton's election to the Contract for America in two years. The worm will turn. If the Dems policies are as bad as we think they will be, the country will toss them out too.

804 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:05:24pm

This is the most recent one of four:

aw, you poor baby. Do those mean national parties not agree with
everything in your pretty, little head. well, you just roll around on
the floor and have your hissy fit.

And to think i thought you were just a racist pig. it's obvious - you
have a massive crush on Governor Jindal. Can we expect to see you
outside the Governor's Mansion with Peter Gabriel playing on a boom
box? LMAO Grow up.

805 Palandine  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:05:43pm

re: #720 TheMatrix31

Definitely, but it feels like some think we shouldn't even say we want him to fail at all.

We are in agreement. I'm so frustrated right now I could die. There is _nothing_ we can do: the media doesn't cover the tea party protests, the Republicans are allowed no involvement in the legislative process, people cannot contact their legislators because they let their voice mail and e-mail boxes stayed filled, allowing nothing new. We are being ruled rather than represented. And on top of that, it's now bad to say we want this horror to fail.

So much has changed. I was in a phone conversation with my mom tonight, and we started talking about Socialized health care. She's _for_ it, because "insuring all those uninsured people will bring costs down for the rest of us." I mentioned the first time Congress meddled in health care (not including Medicare or Medicaid) in creating the HMO system, and asked "Is health care cheaper and more efficient now, or was it better before rampant government control?" She believes me, but you know what, I'm not as good an authority as CNN, which she watches religiously.

I'm not going to stop fighting and resisting in my mind, but I literally can't think of what is to be done. When the White House, democrats in congress, media, academe, and comedians all push the leftist agenda hard and conservatives can't get a word in edgewise and are hounded when a DJ for Pete's sakes makes a snarky comment, I guess I'm left feeling disenfranchised.

Oh well, tomorrow is another day.

Who is John Galt?

806 Darleen  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:05:45pm

When the GOP's shining new hope, Bobby Jindal, comes out with a response to Barack Obama's press conference in which THE MAIN POINT is that it's OK to wish for Obama to fail, there is a serious problem here.

WHO said it was the main point, Charles? The MSM that is still licking Obama's ankles?

GAWD almighty! STOP enabling the Left to control the narrative!

807 HelloDare  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:06:22pm

re: #776 MandyManners

BULLSHIT.

The GOP needs a Pelosi.

Be funny if Pelosi's face lift unsprung, went back to her normal face and she ended up looking just like Helen Thomas.

808 itellu3times  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:06:34pm

Anoop-dog sang "Baby-Baby" - and it was great!

809 Randall Gross  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:06:40pm

re: #785 Darleen

Nancy Pelosi is running the house because we aren't working it right. Even when we were minority party in past congress's we were able to sell ideas and changes because we could pry votes away with sensible alternatives.

I don't buy for a minute that we can't turn some blue dog and western state Dems on some of these budget items if we come up with some reasonable alternatives. They've got to run for re election too, and if we can't put forth the positive and win back some ground where ever we can, then we better quit calling ourselves a political party and just go for "activists".

810 Gus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:06:51pm

re: #804 Charles

This is the most recent one of four:

Now there's irony. Some childish sociopath telling you to grow up.

811 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:06:52pm

re: #799 avanti

Well, there went my good mood. I'll accept some that call my POTUS a Commie, but calling me a Commie simply because I did not vote for your guy is just friggin wrong.

Boo hoo. Come on, embrace your inner party member.

812 Macker  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:06:58pm

re: #799 avanti

My hatred for all forms of Communism is personal. Very Personal.

813 MandyManners  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:07:01pm

re: #771 Occasional Reader

Paste tastes funny!

Do you let it linger on the tip of your tongue?

814 Zimriel  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:07:08pm

re: #761 hazzyday

Remember, half the internet population is probably looney tunes.

AUTHORITARIAN!

/:^)

815 mister  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:07:18pm

You're all falling for the same old tired rules as set up by liberals. We're somehow supposed to be "above" our foes. We shouldn't lower ourselves, blah, blah, blah. This line of thinking creates the dispassionate Republican boobs we currently find ourselves saddled with. Charles, if you want Republicans to play nice and quietly disagree so as not to offend, then we will continue to have the likes of a McCain to vote for as our only option. Now is the time to be outspoken, passionate and angry. Middle America of which you speak will rise up like a thundering herd. You are misreading the passions and concerns of the people out there. Quit over thinking it - it all comes down to human nature and what sparks us all to action. Your quiet golf clap admonishments to the left just won't cut it. They don't think like us. When it comes to politics and logical, analytical thinking, the left is basically cerebrally retarded and incapable of seeing things from our perspective. We don't need to convert them just defeat them.
I for one, hope, and in fact, insist that Obama and his minions fail. Our current government needs to fail. Success as described in any form will ultimately mean the demise of our once great nation.

816 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:07:34pm

re: #806 Darleen

When the GOP's shining new hope, Bobby Jindal, comes out with a response to Barack Obama's press conference in which THE MAIN POINT is that it's OK to wish for Obama to fail, there is a serious problem here.

WHO said it was the main point, Charles? The MSM that is still licking Obama's ankles?

I DO!

I watched it. You're being ridiculous to try to deny it.

817 Crimsonfisted  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:07:36pm

re: #804 Charles

I can't even begin to imagine your inbox.

818 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:07:41pm

re: #806 Darleen

When the GOP's shining new hope, Bobby Jindal, comes out with a response to Barack Obama's press conference in which THE MAIN POINT is that it's OK to wish for Obama to fail, there is a serious problem here.

WHO said it was the main point, Charles? The MSM that is still licking Obama's ankles?

GAWD almighty! STOP enabling the Left to control the narrative!

Rush is the one who did that, not Charles.

819 Ojoe  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:07:51pm

re: #804 Charles

The writer is mad. What fraction of people are so mad? It could be miniscule.

820 MandyManners  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:08:04pm

re: #774 avanti

I know this pisses you off, but the Palin pick killed it for me. It was McCain's first presidential decision and he punted to the religious right. Yes, that did help with his base, but he lost me and many others.

He never could have "grabbed" you.

821 Fat Jolly Penguin  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:08:05pm

Dammit. Every time I go off to do something I miss a fantastic thread.

822 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:08:07pm

re: #671 Gus 802

That suddenly reminded me of Letterman's Top 10 Lists:

And the number one reason we shouldn't be like Europe! They like soccer!

//

We'll get to soccer. Soccer is immigrating from Mexico.

Once we have soccer, we will kick ass at it. Give us a generation.

823 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:08:09pm

re: #739 Irish Rose

If a 'conservative' talking head says everyone should jump off of a bridge, and you don't immediately head out to the nearest span, you're probably a libtard RINO.
////

824 HelloDare  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:08:14pm

re: #804 Charles

This is the most recent one of four:

aw, you poor baby. Do those mean national parties not agree with
everything in your pretty, little head. well, you just roll around on
the floor and have your hissy fit.

And to think i thought you were just a racist pig. it's obvious - you
have a massive crush on Governor Jindal. Can we expect to see you
outside the Governor's Mansion with Peter Gabriel playing on a boom
box? LMAO Grow up.

I detect a lisp. I think it's Barney Frank.

825 JohnAdams  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:08:25pm

re: #795 wong fei hung

The comments in this post have been fascinating. I really appreciate most of the views presented here, whether I agree or not.

It seems to me that if Obama's economic gambit fails, we all lose. Duh.

Yet, if his social agenda comes to fruition, we all... lose. Again, duh.

Talk about a no-win situation.

Now, considering Secretaries Geithner and Clinton's comments today (on the US dollar and the Mexican Drug War-spillover), does anyone NEED to say they hope these people fail? Aren't they doing a good enough job of failing as it is? It's like telling a simpleton you hope he bombs the SAT.

What I DO hope, is that we stop waiting for Palin or Jindal or Steele or Zombie Reagan or whomever to "resurrect" Conservatism. Conservatism was never meant to be Liberalism-in-drag nor was it meant to be a Trojan Horse for religiosity. I say, this dog is covered in Specter, Gingrich and Ralph Reed fleas - and nobody knows where the f*cking shampoo is.

Partaking in the type of snickering childishness the left was so fond of during the Bush II years gains us NOTHING. Leave the proselytizing to the Christian Coalition. Leave the spitballs to the lowbrows in high-chairs at HuffPo and Kos. It's all on us, folks. We ARE the cavalry and we need only two weapons: traditional Conservative principle and indignation towards the traitors and cowards on both sides of the aisle.

Ultimately, WE... are the ones we've been waiting for. Ironic, huh?

-WFH


Dude. Nice. Come around a bit more often.

Donut?

826 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:08:26pm

re: #785 Darleen

Thanos

I can offer a budget, but I have to sell it with a positive

Wait a minute ... Nancy Pelosi is running the House.... NANCY PELOSI, who wouldn't piss on a Republican if that Republican was on fire. She has even shut the GOP OUT of committee meetings.

I'm only surprised she didn't have the Republican offices closed down and their desks tossed on the sidewalks.

at that point the only thing to GOP can do is try to take it to the public and the MSM, wing of the DNC is not listening.

Or did you miss where Gov. Sanford sent a letter to Obama about trying to get the strings to Fed $$$ undone and was answered with an attack ad from MoveOn.org in lieu of an answer from the White House.

Good points, but Thanos has a point as well. We need concrete proposals, not just attacks. Yes the MSM will attack our proposals, but that just means we need to be ready with an ad campaign to promote them. We're supposed to be the part of ideas, so lets get our ideas in the public eye!

827 Zimriel  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:09:23pm

re: #804 Charles

This is the most recent one of four: "Peter Gabriel playing on a boom box"

Oh come on.

Everyone knows that a-Ha is the way to a man's heart.

828 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:09:34pm

re: #821 Fat Jolly Penguin

Dammit. Every time I go off to do something I miss a fantastic thread.

Ya gotta quit doing stuff, and junk. ;p

829 MandyManners  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:09:36pm

re: #784 Macker

Pelosi is a frakkin' loon! Why would the GOP need their own?

Maybe we need the kind of structure that has driven the party of fucking Commie bastards to power.

830 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:09:41pm

Another one:

Chuck,

Why don't you explain to your loyal sheep exactly how it is that the
"vast middle" wants Obama to succeed? Um, succeed at radically altering
the character of American society so that we more closely resemble, say,
Sweden? Is that really want the "vast middle" wants and, therefore, is
pulling for Obama.

C'mon Chuck! Even you're bright enough to know that is bullshit. Aren't
you?

831 Gus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:09:49pm

re: #822 SanFranciscoZionist

We'll get to soccer. Soccer is immigrating from Mexico.

Once we have soccer, we will kick ass at it. Give us a generation.

Needless to say my dad used to play soccer as a kid and teenager. He never watched it on TV nor tried to teach us how to play.

832 yesandno  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:10:10pm

Who are we?
What do we believe?
Who should represent us?
How do we achieve our goals?


The faster we can answers those questions for ourselves, the more likely we are able to judge others by the same criteria. The more likely WE are to succeed. The President works for us. We tend to forget it...or maybe we tend to let other's forget it because we don't demand to be heard. We cannot fail in these four years. We don't have that luxury in the world today. And we cannot let this Congress take us down the path it appears it is.

Take the Congress in 2010 and stop the tide towards socialism/fascism and we will have a succesful administration....one we direct. I still believe that this is possible.
I know that it is necessary.

I think Rush was honest to himself...not wanting Obama to fail, but to have policies that weren't Conservative to fail, whether they be from the President or the Congress.

833 Afrocity  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:10:35pm

Avanti who did you vote for in the last 3 presidential elections?

834 Macker  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:10:39pm

re: #829 MandyManners

Maybe we need the kind of structure that has driven the party of fucking Commie bastards to power.

I disagree. That is like trying to ally ourselves with folks such as Vlaams Belang when fighting the Islamofascists.

835 avanti  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:10:51pm

re: #811 Walter L. Newton

Boo hoo. Come on, embrace your inner party member.

You are one nasty fuck are you not.

836 realwest  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:11:02pm

re: #738 Charles
I know you didn't say we shouldn't criticize Obama, but I asked a legitimate question Chares. Given the trifecta of the MSM, Money and voter fraud perpetrated or alleged to have been perpetrated by ACORN, just what kind of positive message do YOU think the GOP could come up with that would beat that trifecta? Especially when, traditionally, the GOP has at least said it stands for smaller government, for individual responsibility, for Federal spending which doesn't kill our economy, for lower taxes, and for supporting small businesses who are the creator of more jobs than the Big (or formerly Big) corporations are? And yes I know GWB waaay overspent, but let's please not forget he was engaged in fighting two wars concurrently, had to build up the American Military after Clinton had let it dwindle and swing in the breeze, and had both Katrina and a Democratically controlled Congress in his last two years in office.
What do you - or anyone else out here - think can beat the trifecta of MSM, Money and wide-spread ACORN style voter fraud and initimidation?

837 BlueCanuck  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:11:08pm

re: #774 avanti

Hmmmm, lets look at his pick of Palin.
Executive experience? Check.
Young and dynamic? Check.
Strong family values? Check.
Leadership? Check.
Conservative values? Check.

Need I go on? Palin as a pick was one of McCains better choices in the whole campaign. All the rhetoric, lies, slander, and miss representation by the media is what destroyed that part of the presidential campaign.

838 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:11:25pm

It's a little amazing how many people are down-dinging this, who have never posted a single comment here.

839 Ojoe  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:11:35pm

re: #829 MandyManners

No good. That was a structure of manipulation obfuscation and misdirection. Nothing good will be accomplished with such a structure.


Well good night all.

840 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:11:36pm

None of the downdingers on this thread are posters I've seen make comments.

841 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:11:59pm

re: #835 avanti

You are one nasty fuck are you not.

Yep. Next question.

842 MandyManners  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:12:03pm

re: #804 Charles

That makes no sense at all.

843 Pupdawg  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:12:03pm

re: #707 Mich-again

There were actually a few good points sprinkled in there among that cliche ridden list of why Ann Coulter hates liberals. .

Don't hate the players, hate the game? In politics, nope. At times hate both. Unfortunately, to career politicians on both sides of the aisle as well as in the middle their profession is a 9 to 5 business-as-usual game...to us it is billfold and tip-of-your-nose personal all the time.

Cliches are an integral part of communication and the purest albeit 'stolen' form of imitation...and thus flattery. I was in no way trying to flatter Ann Coulter, yet some liberals are very easy to dislike as are some conservatives and more than likely Ann Coulter to some liberals, I would think.

844 Shug  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:12:20pm

I hope that Soros fails

845 Last Mohican  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:12:32pm

re: #253 Afrocity

She said okay, looked at me strange.
Then came back 40 minutes later and I thanked her she said "it must be nice having healthcare, not many can afford it."

It is absolutely disgusting, way beyond the bounds of acceptable professional conduct, and grounds for disciplinary action, for a nurse to say something like that to you. It would be equally unacceptable for a right-wing nurse to say to a patient who's an illegal alien, on the day of her surgery, something like "it must be nice for you to enjoy this nice hospital room at the expense of the American people, whose laws you are violating by being here." A nurse's job is to take care of her patients, and if she can't do it without making hostile political comments, then she is not entitled to work as a nurse any more.

That said, if I were you, I'd turn off FNC and put on some ancient sitcom reruns that temporarily turn your mind into something like the jello that they're feeding you. Ask for some more blankets -- the IV fluid running into your arm is at room temperature, which is a lot colder than the 98.6 degrees inside of you, which is why it's making you feel cold. Don't be surprised if you need some extra blankets. And if you're not yet up and walking around, remember to use your incentive spirometer -- if they didn't give you one, then just take a really deep breath in, hold it for a few seconds, and then breathe out again. You're supposed to do that at least ten times per hour.

846 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:12:39pm
847 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:12:59pm

re: #844 Shug

I hope that Soros fails

I hope markos fails.

848 avanti  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:13:00pm

re: #833 Afrocity

Avanti who did you vote for in the last 3 presidential elections?

The last GOP POTUS I voted for was Reagan.

849 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:13:08pm

re: #838 Charles

It's a little amazing how many people are down-dinging this, who have never posted a single comment here.

Added one up ding from me, just to make sure.

850 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:13:12pm

I HOPE DINNERJACKET FAILS!

851 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:13:16pm

re: #769 Charles

Wrong.

When the GOP's shining new hope, Bobby Jindal, comes out with a response to Barack Obama's press conference in which THE MAIN POINT is that it's OK to wish for Obama to fail, there is a serious problem here.

I could not care less what the left says about it. These are MY opinions.

If you want him to fail you are labeled by the left as un-American.
If you want him to succeed you are labeled by the right as approving of his policies.
This is precisely the tactical no-win mug's game that Obama opponents should not allow themselves to get suckered into playing.

852 Bloodnok  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:13:35pm

re: #846 inspectorudy

"TWO!"

853 Boxy_brown  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:13:52pm

When someone triples the national debt, abandons our allies socializes entire industries, abandons our war against islamist scumbags, waters down our freedoms and breaks the rules he has sworn to defend and uphold he is a failure. No need to hope for it, it's already a Fait accompli.

What I hope is that enough people can be made to realize that he is a failure in time to reverse some of what he has done to the country.

854 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:14:01pm

re: #735 LudwigVanQuixote

Ehhhh, troll, like pork, is trayf.

Didn't we decide they were pareve? Like mushrooms?

855 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:14:02pm

re: #848 avanti

The last GOP POTUS I voted for was Reagan.

What happened? Loose a bet?

856 MandyManners  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:14:20pm

re: #834 Macker

I disagree. That is like trying to ally ourselves with folks such as Vlaams Belang when fighting the Islamofascists.

I'm not talking about ideology. I'm talking about structure.

857 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:14:27pm

#846: buh-bye then. Sorry, your dramatic little sign-off has been deleted.

858 Afrocity  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:14:27pm

re: #835 avanti

You are one nasty fuck are you not.

Hey, now. Lets not get crass. I got my only downding for saying you liked Barney Frank which is not nearly as bad as what you said to Walter.

Settle down.

859 davesax  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:14:29pm

Charles:

The GOP is the Rush Limbaugh/Bobby Jindal party.

The reactions to your eminently sensible post prove it.

860 Optimizer  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:14:30pm

Oh, geez - THIS subject again. This is one of those deals where people get all hot under the collar over something that is basically semantics. Two sides barking at each other over HOW something is said. Our esteemed and generous host has to function in much the same was as a politician - worrying about how things SOUND if you don't go to the trouble of getting at what people actually are SAYING, and so I figure that's where he's coming from.

But, c'mon - it's obvious! When they say they want him to fail, they mean they want him to fail at damn near all of his campaign promises (and all the socialist hidden agendas) - because they would be really bad for the country. Plus, they mean they want him to fill out his term with a terrible popularity rating - so we don't have to worry about any of his terrible ideas or schemes hurting us anymore (rather than SUCCEED at pulling off this scam he's got going). They DON'T mean (at least most of them, anyway) they want Obama to fail at protecting the country from terrorists, or foreign threats in general, for example (although one wonders whether he is especially concerned about that).

I'm interested in what people actually mean, myself, so I don't begrudge these guys so much. But it's a legitimate point to say that putting it the way they have, they leave themselves open to having it twisted all around. Let's face it, they're either letting anger and frustration get the better of them, or just grabbing headlines (pick which one on a case-by-case basis).

So, c'mon, Lizards! This isn't worth the infighting I'm seeing. Let's try to understand each other a little. The foundations of the Republic are under heavy assault - let's remember who the bads guys really are.

861 huckfunn  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:14:33pm

re: #830 Charles

your loyal sheep

B'aaaa

Loyally spoken, of course

862 iLikeCandy  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:15:19pm

re: #769 Charles

Wrong.

When the GOP's shining new hope, Bobby Jindal, comes out with a response to Barack Obama's press conference in which THE MAIN POINT is that it's OK to wish for Obama to fail, there is a serious problem here.

I could not care less what the left says about it. These are MY opinions.

We may have a fundamental disagreement, then. I've conceded that it's a lousy idea to say anything that can be truncated or twisted into a sound bite that sounds unpatriotic and 100% negative -- which means we darn near have to keep silent. But wanting this ill-intentioned know-nothing who became president thanks largely to a feckless electorate and unpatriotic messengers in the media, academia, and Hollywood to fail is my fiercest hope for the America I love. If Obama changes, or if he's snubbed by some foreign power in a way that I feel he does not deserve, I'll rise up in indignation and wish for his and America's success.

863 Gus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:15:24pm

re: #838 Charles

It's a little amazing how many people are down-dinging this, who have never posted a single comment here.

I guess this is another litmus test. "Embrace the sound byte: I hope he fails." We've been given our marching orders from shock jocks across the nation. They think this tactic will not fail but I say otherwise especially for a professional politician. A politician must at all costs be a diplomat as well as a manager. They fail to see this and see them only as mouthpieces for rage.

More or less.

864 realwest  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:15:27pm

re: #830 Charles
Ya know Charles, I bet if you wrote or more accurately edited a book about the looney-tunes e-mails you recieve - not to mention the hate filled, frequently threatening e-mails, you could make a bunch of money just selling it to lizards!

865 Darleen  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:15:35pm

Charles

I heard what Jindal said and I take it like my William F Buckley [paraphrased] quote above.

Jindal wants Obama's policies to fail, because Obama's policies are the end of America as we know it. We then become another Euro-Socialist-
Democrat limping society.

Tell me ONE difference between Obama's policies and the ones running the EU right now? There is not a tittle of difference; indeed, the irony in the EU is telling Obama he is GOING TOO FAR. And China saying that with Obama's policies maybe the dollar should not be the international currency any more.

I want Obama to fail, unless he has an ephiphany. But the empty suit is in over his head and all he has is his Ayers/Alinsky vision for bunnies and butterflies while enslaving the productive class.

NO F**KING WAY.

866 Ojoe  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:15:47pm

re: #846 inspectorudy

Gee, you are off the mark in your comments about Charles. I think he wants the best for our country & is fighting to keep at bay the increasingly nasty and destructive political spirit loose in the land.

Good night again.

867 MandyManners  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:16:00pm

re: #839 Ojoe

No good. That was a structure of manipulation obfuscation and misdirection. Nothing good will be accomplished with such a structure.


Well good night all.

I'm talking about the tactics, the strategy.

Clamp down on the MFM.

868 wee fury  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:16:02pm

The words have it.
I do not want President Obama to fail.
I do not want some of President Obama's policies to be implemented.

869 Pietr  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:16:06pm

re: #774 avanti

I'm still waiting on your response about the US Navy carelessly shooting up Sampans in Vietnam, Avanti...here's something to respond to:


re: #683 Pietr

AVANTI:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

I normally give GAZE Avanti-but you said you SLEW fishing boats alongside a Hvy Cruiser with 3 in guns. Now, I'm a dumb ole retired AF E-7, and I didn't know you could depress a 3 inch gun that much-to sink a fishing boat against your hull! You claim to be en ET, but say that "the radar was off", BS-Passive is always on and the Elec. Officer/crew would have been monitoring emissions-of ALL types-I worked signal intelligence, as a Tech-so don't BS me. And the Wiki article only mentions 17 sunken 'wiblics' as you call them being sunk, with 14 damaged. The key word is LOGISTICS on those wiblics-do you know what that means?

870 Jack Burton  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:16:14pm

re: #850 Sharmuta

I HOPE DINNERJACKET FAILS!

Despite my pet peeve about people not knowing how to spell or pronounce the guys name, I'll have to agree with you on this one.

871 JohnAdams  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:16:27pm

re: #838 Charles

It's a little amazing how many people are down-dinging this, who have never posted a single comment here.

I imagine you've got a lot of lurkers gathering information...mwahahahahahahahahahahahahah! ;~)

872 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:16:33pm

re: #852 Bloodnok

"TWO!"

The first helping of grilled troll are now being served. You all still have time to request side dishes and soda. What would you like?

873 Randall Gross  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:16:38pm

re: #853 Boxy_brown

Did Obama triple the national debt, or did Congress?

874 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:16:44pm

Hussein Dolt is one of those douchebag used-car salesmen who pretends to be everybody's buddy. In his first two months, he's done most of the shit I was reassured that he wouldn't do over four years (because 'he has to govern from the center' the RINOs and pundits assured me) his policies are bad news, his cabinet is bad news and his enablers in the MSM and both houses are the worst.

Why exactly should I root for this snake oil salesman who somehow found himself @ 1600 Pennsylvania Ave to succeed? So my great-great-great grandchildren can still pay for his $787 billion (and counting) kickback disguised as a 'stimulus plan'?

875 Racer X  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:16:54pm

Was Jimmy Carter a failure or a success?

876 MandyManners  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:16:56pm

re: #850 Sharmuta

I HOPE DINNERJACKET FAILS!

And, that NoKo short bastard.

877 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:17:11pm

The wind and rain beat upon you as you shout into the night, "I hope the hurricane fails!" Morning light will reveal, your platform has become a raft.

878 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:17:15pm

re: #862 iLikeCandy

I've conceded that it's a lousy idea to say anything that can be truncated or twisted into a sound bite that sounds unpatriotic and 100% negative -- which means we darn near have to keep silent.

Absolutely, 100% wrong. You can criticize him as harshly as you want, and I will. But when you cross the line to wishing for him to FAIL, you're cutting your own throat, and defining your OWN viewpoint in negative terms.

879 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:17:21pm

re: #767 capitalist piglet

I understand where the thinking comes from. A pastor I know is black, and talks about this a lot (when he was a child he really had it pounded into his thinking, literally, that white people hated him and were out to get him - his relatives were trying to ready him for the world they thought he would face as a grown man). I just wonder what America would look like if every child of ever color believed in himself and in his opportunity to fulfill his dreams.

Different.

Thinking about some kids from my classes last year. Really wish things were different for them.

880 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:17:34pm

re: #870 ArchangelMichael

Despite my pet peeve about people not knowing how to spell or pronounce the guys name, I'll have to agree with you on this one.

I don't respect him enough to bother with learning how to spell his name. He's not worthy of that amount of my time.

881 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:17:41pm

re: #869 Pietr

I'm still waiting on your response about the US Navy carelessly shooting up Sampans in Vietnam, Avanti...here's something to respond to:


re: #683 Pietr

You'll probably have to wait a LONG time for him to respond, since he was already called on this in former threads and he won't answer.

I think I know what his real name is, it's Kerry.

882 realwest  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:17:44pm

re: #838 Charles
Well I recognize the nic of unclassifiable, but I honestly don't think I've ever heard of any of the other down dingers before.

883 Shug  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:17:51pm

He came to post
A dramatic goodbye
Stinky pushed the plunger
blew him sky high


burma shave

884 Bloodnok  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:18:26pm

re: #872 Dark_Falcon

The first helping of grilled troll are now being served. You all still have time to request side dishes and soda. What would you like?

French fried taters and a Dr.Pepper.

885 Boxy_brown  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:18:31pm

re: #873 Thanos

Did Obama triple the national debt, or did Congress?

Yes.

(He signed the f-ing things.)

If it adds any clarity Congress is a failure as well.

886 Macker  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:18:40pm

re: #873 Thanos

Did Obama triple the national debt, or did Congress?

Yes.

887 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:18:43pm

re: #857 Charles

#846: buh-bye then. Sorry, your dramatic little sign-off has been deleted.

Memo to all trolls booted tonight:

All your martyr cookie are belong to us!

888 avanti  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:18:45pm

re: #858 Afrocity

Hey, now. Lets not get crass. I got my only downding for saying you liked Barney Frank which is not nearly as bad as what you said to Walter.

Settle down.

I try to stay pleasant, but calling me a Commie deserves more then a crass reply. I served my country so folks could make lame ass comments like that, but don't expect me to remain silent when a keyboard warrior calls me a fucking communist.

889 JohnAdams  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:18:52pm

re: #859 davesax

Charles:

The GOP is the Rush Limbaugh/Bobby Jindal party.

The reactions to your eminently sensible post prove it.

Yeah, and the Donkeys are owned up by Code Pink. off.

890 Racer X  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:19:04pm

Avanti is a Moby.

891 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:19:26pm

re: #760 Occasional Reader

Ralph? That you?

892 Shug  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:19:58pm

re: #873 Thanos

Did Obama triple the national debt, or did Congress?

No, they just cut the debt.

(from 1.2 trillion next year to only 1.19 trillion.)

893 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:20:03pm

re: #786 Gus 802

Which is what the American people will only see: a Republican hoping the president fail. A lot of independent voters don't see things as ideologically divided and that rhetoric is objectionable to their values. They're not listening to the MSM nor the left but make that judgement purely on their own. If the only message is one calling out for failure than that message itself will fail.

If I had a thousand dings to give, they would all be yours.

894 USCMSNE  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:20:13pm

Either Obama succeeds in implementing his agenda or he fails. For everyone who doesn't want Obama to fail, what policies of his do you want to succeed? I agree we need to criticize and critique the administration but then what? When the administration decides to implement a policy that we fervently oppose do we say "Aw shucks!", tuck our tails and fall in line?

Censoring ourselves, cowtowing the middle, is what gave us John McCain. Conservatives, note I didn't say republicans, need to stand on principle. I'm madder'n hell at the direction this country is going. I'm not going to bend my principles because it might offend the middle. Conservatives need to unapologetically beat the middle senseless with principle.

895 Boxy_brown  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:20:48pm

re: #886 Macker

Yes.

great minds think alike.

896 Darleen  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:20:49pm

Absolutely, 100% wrong. You can criticize him as harshly as you want, and I will. But when you cross the line to wishing for him to FAIL, you're cutting your own throat, and defining your OWN viewpoint in negative terms.

You just surrendered to the Left Language thieves. Congrats.

897 Gus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:20:52pm

re: #893 SanFranciscoZionist

If I had a thousand dings to give, they would all be yours.

Thank you very much! :)

898 MandyManners  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:20:54pm

re: #875 Racer X

Was Jimmy Carter a failure or a success?

For which ideology? For which theology?

899 Jack Burton  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:21:24pm

re: #880 Sharmuta

I don't respect him enough to bother with learning how to spell his name. He's not worthy of that amount of my time.

Fair enough. Anyway "Dinnerjacket" and "Mymood Iminajihad" don't bother me nearly as much as people who actually try to say it correctly and get it wrong. People there is no 'k' or 'ch' in his name.... it's like nails on chalkboard.

900 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:21:34pm

re: #884 Bloodnok

French fried taters and a Dr.Pepper.

You got it. Would you like some cheese sauce for your fries? I've got some good spread I can heat up.

901 Pietr  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:21:35pm

re: #858 Afrocity

And D_F updinged you, as did I, for that 1....Carry on, M'am....:>))

902 Wm T Sherman  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:21:36pm

The definition of "fail" and "success" is crucial here.

By some definitions, Obama is already failing and nothing can stop it.

By other definitions, Obama is succeeding beyond his wildest dreams.

What is the defintion of success for this very strange administration? What would success look like?

903 Boxy_brown  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:21:38pm

re: #888 avanti

I try to stay pleasant, but calling me a Commie deserves more then a crass reply. I served my country so folks could make lame ass comments like that, but don't expect me to remain silent when a keyboard warrior calls me a fucking communist.

Communist!

904 Shug  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:21:53pm

Carter gave us Reagan so I'd say he was a success

905 davesax  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:22:33pm

re: #878 Charles

Charles, you're just talking common sense.

That doesn't go over well in these threads.

906 Afrocity  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:22:57pm

re: #845 Last Mohican

And if you're not yet up and walking around, remember to use your incentive spirometer -- if they didn't give you one, then just take a really deep breath in, hold it for a few seconds, and then breathe out again. You're supposed to do that at least ten times per hour.

I never heard of it don't think I have one. I have some heat packs on. The nurse was nice overall, If I was more conscious, I would have said that growing up on welfare, I know that govt. healthcare sucks. I am thankful for my job and that I have health insurance. It provided me a nurse and nice room. I cant imagine Universal Healthcare.

907 JohnAdams  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:23:33pm

re: #889 JohnAdams

Yeah, and the Donkeys are owned up by Code Pink. off.

Sorry let me turn off the filter, "dave". Fuck off.

908 avanti  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:23:41pm

re: #869 Pietr

I'm still waiting on your response about the US Navy carelessly shooting up Sampans in Vietnam, Avanti...here's something to respond to:


re: #683 Pietr

Look, we did shoot up some wooden boats my mistake, I was there. Shit like that happens in war, and we later were more careful.

909 Shug  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:23:53pm

Goodnight folks.

I sense a lot of impending meltdowns and I'm out of Burma Shave limericks.

Let's keep our fingers crossed that Texas stays out of the Dark Ages

910 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:24:38pm

Hello Night Lizards! It was coldish and windy in Near Iowa today.

Charles, great post.

How are you-all and what are we talking about?

911 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:24:47pm

re: #896 Darleen

And you're their willing tool because you fail to see how this negative rhetoric is taking away from any positive agenda the party might be promoting. Which do you think the msm bastards would rather do, take a negative comment and repeated it as much as possible to smear the entire right with, or take a positive agenda that will hurt their Precious 0bama and allow the American people to decide if it's a better alternative?

Answer- they will smear us with our own negativity every time.

912 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:25:07pm

re: #888 avanti

I try to stay pleasant, but calling me a Commie deserves more then a crass reply. I served my country so folks could make lame ass comments like that, but don't expect me to remain silent when a keyboard warrior calls me a fucking communist.

Hey jerk. Keyboard warrior. I'll tell you what. Click on my name and you'll have ALL the info you need to contact me, or even visit me. I don't say anything to anyone that I wouldn't say right to their face.

You're the one who is practically having an orgasm over Obama and the upcoming socialism that he wants to bring to America.

And that's coming from YOU, a person that served your country. What did you serve it for, so Barry could come along and destroy everything that you fought for?

Do you know anything about history? Do you know anything about socialism? Do you really think Barry is just a run of the mill Democrat? Or is it possible that the guy is a died in the wool Marxist.

Do you know anything about his life, the people he hob-nobbed with, the people that mentored him, the books he read, the groups he supported?

You can't fool me.

Come on over, you got my address.

913 Silvergirl  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:25:18pm

re: #877 Kreuzueber Halbmond

The wind and rain beat upon you as you shout into the night, "I hope the hurricane fails!" Morning light will reveal, your platform has become a raft.

People in dire straits most often wish for their own strength to come forth in order to survive and to emerge victorious.

Likewise, we wish for our country and the strengths and values it holds to survive any mishandling, and that it will be revealed as whole by dawn's early light.

914 realwest  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:25:28pm

re: #859 davesax
NO it's NOT. Please read my #'s 724 and 836 above and tell me where I EVER suggested that Jindahl or Rush are the GOP?
Matter of fact, read those posts and tell us your perceived wisdom concerning what the GOP should do?

915 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:25:37pm

re: #896 Darleen

And you just showed yourself to be an asshat. Insulting Charles is a quick way to get the gate.

916 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:25:48pm

re: #831 Gus 802

Needless to say my dad used to play soccer as a kid and teenager. He never watched it on TV nor tried to teach us how to play.

My mother made the mistake of trying to get a burrito at the local taqueria during the last game of the last world cup. (Was it the last or the one before? Italy won.)

What she got sort of resembled a burrito, made by a blind person who hadn't been blind very long and was just getting used to it. The kid had assembled it without taking his eyes off the TV. She dismantled it, just to make sure there was no pork in it anywhere, and ate the damn thing.

917 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:26:13pm

re: #888 avanti

I try to stay pleasant, but calling me a Commie deserves more then a crass reply. I served my country so folks could make lame ass comments like that, but don't expect me to remain silent when a keyboard warrior calls me a fucking communist.


clapclapclapclap

I served as well- Where was your righteous indignation when Code Pink and the KOS-lings were basically calling me a chickenhawk?

918 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:26:29pm

One man's terrorist success is another man's freedom fighter failure.

919 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:26:54pm

re: #899 ArchangelMichael

Fair enough. Anyway "Dinnerjacket" and "Mymood Iminajihad" don't bother me nearly as much as people who actually try to say it correctly and get it wrong. People there is no 'k' or 'ch' in his name.... it's like nails on chalkboard.

Oh- I can pronounce it correctly.

920 Gus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:29:16pm

re: #916 SanFranciscoZionist

My mother made the mistake of trying to get a burrito at the local taqueria during the last game of the last world cup. (Was it the last or the one before? Italy won.)

What she got sort of resembled a burrito, made by a blind person who hadn't been blind very long and was just getting used to it. The kid had assembled it without taking his eyes off the TV. She dismantled it, just to make sure there was no pork in it anywhere, and ate the damn thing.

That's pretty funny. They're rather soccer crazy in other counties. Futbol and all that. My dad used to play at the seminary he attended in Argentina. One of his classmates died from over exertion. It takes a lot of stamina to play the sport since there's so much running. That's the one thing that turned me off in school -- too much running.

921 Last Mohican  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:29:25pm

re: #774 avanti

I know this pisses you off, but the Palin pick killed it for me. It was McCain's first presidential decision and he punted to the religious right. Yes, that did help with his base, but he lost me and many others.

No, your reaction to Palin doesn't piss me off. I agree, McCain's picking her was a wuss move. McCain had spent most of his political career being a man who held true to his moderate, centrist principles, resisting pressure from all sides, doing what he thought was right. In picking Palin, he caved in to the religious right's pressure, in order to try to release the pursestrings of the far-right, who were initially suspicious of McCain. He moved a few notches right of center, just to try to secure some campaign funds. Shame on him. It made me think less of him.

But it didn't make me think any more of Obama, who permanently positioned himself two hundred notches to the left of center, and, let's recall, was a socialist, and a longtime member of a racist hate group, who supported a revolutionary terrorist murderer who wanted to kill 20 million Americans while overthrowing the American government.

Which one is closer to the center?

922 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:29:33pm

re: #864 realwest

Ya know Charles, I bet if you wrote or more accurately edited a book about the looney-tunes e-mails you recieve - not to mention the hate filled, frequently threatening e-mails, you could make a bunch of money just selling it to lizards!

Letters to Charles. I think it should look like those Penguin Pocket paperback copies of the Federalist Papers and whatnot...and then, inside, the letters, reproduced in all their wacky glory.

923 Afrocity  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:29:35pm

There sure are a lot of new posters I don't recognize on here tonight.

Avanti you did not answer my question. You voted for Reagan, so are you a Regan democrat? Or did you sit elections out? Sometimes it is gradual

Me:
Clinton-1992
Clinton-1996
Gore-2000
Did Not Vote-2004
McCain-2008

924 Boxy_brown  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:29:54pm

re: #917 Fenway_Nation

clapclapclapclap

I served as well- Where was your righteous indignation when Code Pink and the KOS-lings were basically calling me a chickenhawk?

Thank you.

925 MandyManners  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:30:08pm

Don't punish me with WHAT?


Youtube Video
926 astronmr20  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:30:16pm

re: #60 freetoken

For one, at least the energy policies, I want Pres. Obama's policies to succeed, as he is the first Executive to seem like he is open to truly changing (dare I use that word) some long standing domestic policies wrt energy (all of the sources.)

Just because I think some policies are bad, doesn't mean that all of them are.

That the GOP looks at an entire presidency and and entire set of policies and wishes en masse failure is a demonstration of the abrogation of responsibilities to govern.

It is a public form of pouting.

You want cap and trade, the abolition of nuclear energy, and billions of your dollars poured into fucking windmills?

I can't believe what I'm hearing on this thread.

I.

Want.

Obama.

To.

Fail.

927 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:30:29pm

Today, I saw a semi-truck. Well, I see a lot of semi-trucks. This one caught my eye because it had some colorful artwork on the door of the cab. It was the same as was on this t-shirt.

My first thought was of Chairman Mao.

928 avanti  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:31:45pm

re: #912 Walter L. Newton

Hey jerk. Keyboard warrior. I'll tell you what. Click on my name and you'll have ALL the info you need to contact me, or even visit me. I don't say anything to anyone that I wouldn't say right to their face.

OK, so much for the disagreeing with being disagreeable. I would never call anyone a Commie, without proof, vet or not, but you have to be you.

929 astronmr20  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:31:57pm

re: #927 ggt

Today, I saw a semi-truck. Well, I see a lot of semi-trucks. This one caught my eye because it had some colorful artwork on the door of the cab. It was the same as was on this t-shirt.

My first thought was of Chairman Mao.

If Obama has it his way that truck will be rusting in a junkyard with it's driver on the public dole.

930 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:32:11pm

re: #870 ArchangelMichael

Despite my pet peeve about people not knowing how to spell or pronounce the guys name, I'll have to agree with you on this one.

I can both spell it and say it. I just like calling him "Imadinnerjacket" because I flatter myself it might annoy him. My mother calls him "Haman Two"--"Haman One" being the ex-husband of a friend of hers, not the figure from Esther, who is just Haman.

931 abolitionist  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:32:19pm

re: #512 rawmuse

Meanwhile, the termites continue to eat our foundation.

Keep your eye on this one. These will be the Obama youth, coming to your door.
It even got some GOP votes.

Termites?
H.Amdt49 Pass Amendment to prohibit organizations from attempting to influence legislation; organize or engage in protests, petitions, boycotts, or strikes; and assist, promote, or deter union organizing.

That sounds rather far-reaching.

932 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:32:27pm

I do wish the Republicans had someone, anyone, with a positive message. Newt in training or Regan in training, but, I just hear crickets.....

933 green_earth  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:33:06pm

What a thread tonight Charles, you got all sides here, all 31 flavors. If you could somehow tie Ron Paul to the desired failure of hopenchange, the diversity would be complete.

934 astronmr20  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:33:10pm

re: #896 Darleen

Absolutely, 100% wrong. You can criticize him as harshly as you want, and I will. But when you cross the line to wishing for him to FAIL, you're cutting your own throat, and defining your OWN viewpoint in negative terms.

You just surrendered to the Left Language thieves. Congrats.

Agreed.

935 avanti  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:33:33pm

re: #917 Fenway_Nation

clapclapclapclap

I served as well- Where was your righteous indignation when Code Pink and the KOS-lings were basically calling me a chickenhawk?

I missed that, but did I call you or anyone on here a name ?

936 Irish Rose  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:33:38pm

re: #774 avanti

I know this pisses you off, but the Palin pick killed it for me. It was McCain's first presidential decision and he punted to the religious right. Yes, that did help with his base, but he lost me and many others.

The religious right is not the party base.

937 Jack Burton  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:34:33pm

re: #930 SanFranciscoZionist

I can both spell it and say it. I just like calling him "Imadinnerjacket" because I flatter myself it might annoy him. My mother calls him "Haman Two"--"Haman One" being the ex-husband of a friend of hers, not the figure from Esther, who is just Haman.

LOL... Haman. Reminds me of the Jewbilee episode of South Park.

938 Last Mohican  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:35:55pm

re: #906 Afrocity

I never heard of it don't think I have one. I have some heat packs on. The nurse was nice overall, If I was more conscious, I would have said that growing up on welfare, I know that govt. healthcare sucks. I am thankful for my job and that I have health insurance. It provided me a nurse and nice room. I cant imagine Universal Healthcare.

I am quite certain you would walk all over her in that argument. But I'd avoid it anyway, and concentrate on more important things, like vegging out on your meds, watching some escapist television, and getting some good rest.

You haven't told us what kind of surgery you've had (and you don't have to, it's none of our business!) but sometimes after some kinds of surgery, your lungs have a tendency to collapse a little, because you're not up doing your normal activities. The deep breaths every few minutes help to keep your lungs open, which is a good thing.

939 Gus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:35:59pm

re: #934 astronmr20

Agreed.

What about for a politician. Do you think it's constructive for a politician to go on national television and continue a dialogue revolving around promoting failure?

940 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:37:09pm

re: #924 Boxy_brown


You're welcome, but compared to now, I served in relatively tranquil times. These guys serving right now in Iraq, Afghanistan and the Horn of Africa are a cut above and far more worthy of any displays of gratitude on your part.

941 avanti  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:37:24pm

re: #923 Afrocity

There sure are a lot of new posters I don't recognize on here tonight.

Avanti you did not answer my question. You voted for Reagan, so are you a Regan democrat? Or did you sit elections out? Sometimes it is gradual

Me:
Clinton-1992
Clinton-1996
Gore-2000
Did Not Vote-2004
McCain-2008

I guess I was a Reagan independent, that's how I've registered. The only difference in our votes was I voted for Kerry and BHO.

942 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:37:34pm

re: #933 green_earth

What a thread tonight Charles, you got all sides here, all 31 flavors. If you could somehow tie Ron Paul to the desired failure of hopenchange, the diversity would be complete.

rON pAUL!

943 Boxy_brown  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:37:51pm

re: #928 avanti

I would never call anyone a Commie, without proof, vet or not, but you have to be you.

Does having been in the US Navy as well give me license to demand to be taken seriously for saying ridiculous things? Maybe I should have referenced that too in my avatar instead of displaying a cartoon box. Then again, maybe I don't want diminish what I did by constantly trading off it to get "internet points".

944 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:38:40pm

re: #937 ArchangelMichael

LOL... Haman. Reminds me of the Jewbilee episode of South Park.

That was the insane one where Kyle goes to a Jewish summer camp, right? I couldn't stop laughing through the whole thing.

945 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:39:02pm

re: #913 Silvergirl

People in dire straits most often wish for their own strength to come forth in order to survive and to emerge victorious.

Likewise, we wish for our country and the strengths and values it holds to survive any mishandling, and that it will be revealed as whole by dawn's early light.

Wishing for the best is good, but having and presenting a sound plan for success is better than just hoping your opponent fails.

946 Pietr  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:39:25pm

re: #908 avanti

Look, we did shoot up some wooden boats my mistake, I was there. Shit like that happens in war, and we later were more careful.

Which is 1 reason you've been alienating almost every Vet on LGF-you were throwing "Kerry" crap out-and those of us who served in that era HATE that shit. I enlisted in '65, at age 17-and retired in '87-many others here were also in the mix, many in the dirt, and the mud, and the blood. You need to watch how you disparage the military, especially in regard to Vietnam-we didn't lose, a DEM congress gave it away.....:>((

947 iLikeCandy  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:40:08pm

re: #878 Charles

Absolutely, 100% wrong. You can criticize him as harshly as you want, and I will. But when you cross the line to wishing for him to FAIL, you're cutting your own throat, and defining your OWN viewpoint in negative terms.

"Defining my own viewpoint in negative terms."

My viewpoint is actually quite positive -- or say, aggressive. A battle has been joined, and I've picked my side. I want it to succeed. I can't help it. The flip side of this is wanting the other side to fail. Like that speech in Patton.

I don't think of Obama's failure as happening in a vacuum or as leaving a vacuum. His failure would mean that school choice, a strong defense, constructionist judges, hands-off fiscal policies, colorblind government contracting and university admissions policies, and sanity on "climate change" would succeed. That's what I want. And I'm not gonna get it unless I tackle the enemy tooth and nail and try to defeat it and make it fail.

948 Jack Burton  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:40:12pm

WSJ NEWS ALERT: U.S. Plans Drone Attacks in Pakistan

Shouldn't this be news after it happens, not before. Are we going to give the Taliban times and coordinates too?

949 realwest  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:41:24pm

re: #910 ggt Hey ggt!
Well I'm talking about folks crticising the GOP but not coming up with any answers - see my #914.

950 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:41:55pm

re: #941 avanti

I guess I was a Reagan independent, that's how I've registered. The only difference in our votes was I voted for Kerry and BHO.

You voted for the other communist, Kerry. That makes two now. You're a piece of cake. And you wonder why I call you a communist. Kerry, the best friend of the Viet-cong.

951 Jack Burton  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:43:01pm

re: #944 SanFranciscoZionist

That was the insane one where Kyle goes to a Jewish summer camp, right? I couldn't stop laughing through the whole thing.

That one is hilarious. Especially the "Synagogue of the Anti-Semites".

952 Last Mohican  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:43:01pm

re: #950 Walter L. Newton

You voted for the other communist, Kerry. That makes two now. You're a piece of cake. And you wonder why I call you a communist. Kerry, the best friend of the Viet-cong.

Kerry? Well he was a good friend of the Viet Cong anyway, maybe not their best friend. But a Communist?

953 Afrocity  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:43:05pm

re: #938 Last Mohican

They are making me go to bed. I will see you later.

954 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:43:08pm

re: #935 avanti

Uh...'scuse me? This board is chock-a-block w/vets and active duty and none of them flung around the word 'chickenhawk'. I'm looking more to the part of the blogosphere that actively campaigned for 0bama. I had some petty and vindictive co-workers and even some blood relatives who pulled the lever for the same man con-artist you did who called my service into question because I wasn't over in Afghanistan or Iraq right this very second.

955 Last Mohican  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:43:42pm

re: #953 Afrocity

They are making me go to bed. I will see you later.

Weet dreams! Enjoy a nice long peaceful medication-assisted slumber.

956 ArdentCapitalist  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:44:40pm

Sorry Charles,

But in saying I want Obama to fail, I really do mean that I want all of his policies to fail. As a man who believes in the true nature of freedom, why would I desire an expansion of government and government influence, even if it makes the trains run on time?

I'm sorry, Charles, but for the first time on this message board I will disagree with you outright, and say that with the many years that I have served this nation as a U.S. Marine, I've no desire to see Marxism work. I have been to more countries than I have years, and to quote Milton Friedman after going to parts of the world once ruled by Marxist idealism, "in the only cases in which the masses have escaped from the grinding poverty you're talking about, the only cases in recorded history are where they've had capitalism and largely free trade. If you want to know where the masses are worst off, it's exactly in the kinds of societies that depart from that. So that the record of history is absolutely crystal clear: that there is no alternative way, so far discovered, of improving the lot of ordinary people that can hold a candle to the productive activities that are unleashed by a free enterprise system."

Tell me again, Charles, why I want socialist policies to "succeed." If they succeed, surely the trains will run on time, but I may be a different man for it. That "middle" you speak so highly of, the ones that republicans are supposed to recapture, are the kinds of fortitude challenged folks who feel that the division between collectivism and individualism is a gray area-- that individualist and capitalist society can only truly thrive with a certain dash of collectivist practice, enforced by the sovereign of course, here and there.

Sorry Charles, but given the option between full blown hard-line collectivism and individualism light (aka collectivism extra light... what the republicans have been dabbling in for a few years), the collectivists have made their minds crystal clear. When given the option between hard-line democrat or once upon a time centrist/constitutionalist, collectivists will always take the option for more government and more extortion to the government.

957 Athos  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:44:45pm

re: #926 astronmr20

And to most of America, you are no different than the hard line hard left who wanted and hoped Bush would fail in his fighting the GWOT.

You differ in your viewpoints and policies from the President, and like many of us here, believe those policies and viewpoints are not in our best interests, but to wish them to FAIL immediately disqualifies you from cogent debate on those viewpoints and policies the same way that Cindy Sheehan and the rest of the Code Pinko's were irrelevant standing in a field down the road from Crawford after saying they wanted Bush to fail in Iraq.

There is a clear risk to the country if the policies of Obama / Pelosi / Reid gain full implementation -but the way to combat it is to cogently attack those policies. Rightly or wrongly, wishing for the failure of a President is perceived as wishing for the failure of the country. Don't lower yourselves to the past levels of the hard left - we are the ones that are supposed to be above that.

958 Boxy_brown  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:45:07pm

re: #940 Fenway_Nation

You're welcome,

Well thanks for your service as well, but I was referring to the chicken hawk thing.

". These guys serving right now in Iraq, Afghanistan and the Horn of Africa are a cut above and far more worthy of any displays of gratitude on your part."

They are very worthy of our gratitude, and I try to show it. It was a matter of timing though that it wasn't either of us.

959 Pietr  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:46:10pm

re: #953 Afrocity

They are making me go to bed. I will see you later.

G'nites, Afrocity.....hope you have good drugs for a pleasant sleep....

960 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:46:34pm

re: #948 ArchangelMichael

WSJ NEWS ALERT: U.S. Plans Drone Attacks in Pakistan

Shouldn't this be news after it happens, not before. Are we going to give the Taliban times and coordinates too?

For the Taliban, read that headline as: "Please stand by to lose your asses. Have a nice day!"

961 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:47:09pm

I think what many are missing is the right can serve itself and this country by promoting a positive agenda. What this would allow us to do is not only offer a counter-proposal, but give us the ability to express how exactly 0bama's policies are bad.

For example- taxes. Some people just don't understand how taxing the rich is harmful for our economy, so they don't understand why we want this aspect of 0bama's policy to fail. But by proposing our own tax plan, we allow ourselves to make a positive proposal as well as give ourselves the opportunity to explain why it's better, and why 0bama's policy is bad. This is much more of a win-win position, and would serve to enlighten our countrymen.

962 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:47:28pm

re: #956 ArdentCapitalist

Tell me again, Charles, why I want socialist policies to "succeed."

Why don't you tell ME where I said anything even remotely close to that?

963 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:47:39pm

re: #953 Afrocity

They are making me go to bed. I will see you later.

Good night. Glad all went well.

964 Silvergirl  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:47:49pm

re: #945 Kreuzueber Halbmond

Wishing for the best is good, but having and presenting a sound plan for success is better than just hoping your opponent fails.

I didn't say or mean that we should just hope our opponent fails. I'm not in the "I hope he fails" camp.

I think I misunderstood your orignal post, and perhaps you misunderstood mine.

965 avanti  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:47:59pm

re: #943 Boxy_brown

Does having been in the US Navy as well give me license to demand to be taken seriously for saying ridiculous things? Maybe I should have referenced that too in my avatar instead of displaying a cartoon box. Then again, maybe I don't want diminish what I did by constantly trading off it to get "internet points".

I've never asked anyone to accept my comments one way or another. If someday folks just attacked my comments, and not me personally, I'd be giddy with joy. I had more the one comment about the Navy avatar, so I'll delete the damn thing if it's a issue.

966 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:48:15pm

re: #956 ArdentCapitalist

You've completely missed the point.

967 iLikeCandy  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:48:38pm

re: #962 Charles

Why don't you tell ME where I said anything even remotely close to that?

I didn't read his whole post before I up-dinged him. Sorry.

968 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:49:19pm

It's amazing how many people seem to be incapable of actually reading what I wrote and responding to THAT, instead of putting words in my mouth that I neither wrote nor intended.

969 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:50:36pm

It's like no one has heard of the ol' "flies with honey" notion.

We can attract more of the electorate to our side with a positive agenda. Full stop.

970 wong fei hung  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:50:53pm

Some of you must be daft.

"I WANT THE PRESIDENT TO FAIL!" said the faux Conservative as s/he reinserted thumb-in-ass. Politicians SUCK, regardless of party affiliation. Ever hear of Lord Acton? True Conservatives, hell, true Americans, know we, the PEOPLE, are the bulwark against tyranny. Publicly hoping for the failure of the President looks childish. It makes your party look like it is devoid of substance and leadership. Ahem.

Now, I'll give a reach-around to the first person who can tell me what is to be gained by wishing him to fail. What did you win? An extra vote on Election Day?

It's counter-productive. You can wish for him to fail all you want. In the meantime, he'll be enacting his shitty policies while you sit around getting all foamy at the mouth. For what? To get some payback on behalf of King George, who was kind enough to help set the table for Obama's trillion dollar Ponzi scheme? We're at critical mass and there's nothing, sorry, NOTHING, to be gained by harping on how you hope a loser loses.

My goodness.

-WFH

971 iLikeCandy  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:51:25pm

re: #969 Sharmuta

It's like no one has heard of the ol' "flies with honey" notion.

We can attract more of the electorate to our side with a positive agenda. Full stop.

We've got one. The MSM buries it. Full stop.

972 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:51:35pm

re: #967 iLikeCandy

Dings are reversible.

973 realwest  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:51:39pm

re: #957 Athos Athos - PLEASE read my #'s 724 and 836 above and tell me if you think I'm wrong for wanting Obama's policies to fail.
And since my #836 was never answered, perhaps you'd care to give it a go.

974 Zimriel  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:51:41pm

re: #957 Athos

And to most of America, you are no different than the hard line hard left who wanted and hoped Bush would fail in his fighting the GWOT.

Bush was fighting a war on militant Wahhabism overseas. Overseas, Obama is doing something with the word "contingency" in it. Obama's priorities are domestic; his enemies are class enemies right here at home.

At least Bush saw his enemies outside the US. Excuse me while I don't pat Obama on the back and wish him well.

975 Boxy_brown  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:51:46pm

re: #965 avanti

I had more the one comment about the Navy avatar, so I'll delete the damn thing if it's a issue.


After Jimmy Carter and John Kerry, Mr. duped by hope and change is a bit much. Why not a picture of John Murtha?

976 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:51:52pm

re: #971 iLikeCandy

Bullshit.

977 Silvergirl  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:52:18pm

re: #965 avanti

I've never asked anyone to accept my comments one way or another. If someday folks just attacked my comments, and not me personally, I'd be giddy with joy. I had more the one comment about the Navy avatar, so I'll delete the damn thing if it's a issue.

Who can argue with this? I once mentioned being kindler and gentler about these personal attacks, but I might as well have pissed into the wind.

978 iLikeCandy  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:52:35pm

re: #972 Sharmuta

Dings are reversible.

Oh! Off I go, then . . .

979 avanti  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:54:16pm

re: #975 Boxy_brown

After Jimmy Carter and John Kerry, Mr. duped by hope and change is a bit much. Why not a picture of John Murtha?

Ok, time to leave this discussion, the dog pile is just a distraction from a very good thread. Night all.

980 realwest  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:54:33pm

re: #970 wong fei hung
OK - would you please enlighten me, given what I said in my comment #724, what do YOU think Republicans should be doing right now.

981 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:54:36pm

I see Darleen is now trashing me at Protein Wisdom. Typical.

982 iLikeCandy  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:54:36pm

re: #976 Sharmuta

Bullshit.

To paste from one of my own comments on this thread,

school choice, a strong defense, constructionist judges, hands-off fiscal policies, colorblind government contracting and university admissions policies, and sanity on "climate change"

among others.

983 Silvergirl  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:54:51pm

re: #974 Zimriel

Bush was fighting a war on militant Wahhabism overseas. Overseas, Obama is doing something with the word "contingency" in it. Obama's priorities are domestic; his enemies are class enemies right here at home.

At least Bush saw his enemies outside the US. Excuse me while I don't pat Obama on the back and wish him well.

Why are you reacting so strongly as if someone here actually asked you to do anything remotely like patting Obama on the back and wishing him well?

984 Olderthandirt  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:55:47pm

IHMO, If President Obama's policies and initiatives succeed, then he will succeed in turning this country into a Marxist/Socialist state. So, while I'd prefer that he succeed as president, I do want his policies and initiatives to fail. I do not want this country to become more of a Socialist state then what has occurred since the 1930s.

However, Conservatives, and hopefully the GOP, need to stand for strong conservative issues, for limited government (If that's still possible given the changes Obama's made on top of what other presidents have done!), for reducing spending (Same caveat!), and for keeping our Constitution the law of the land.

Others will disagree with me and that is their right. Mine is to hope that President cannot further expand the federal government and that his remaining unimplemented policies fail. With failure further of his policies and initiatives, our country has a chance to remain the land of the free.

985 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:56:59pm

Godwins and Strawmen and Mouth Stuffers, oh my!

986 iLikeCandy  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:57:31pm

Well, looks like the new comments button is broken, so now I'm REALLY gone. Good night, all, and I'm glad we agree on the essentials.

987 Athos  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:57:44pm

re: #961 Sharmuta

It's all about compare and contrast while offering a better and stronger postive message. If the first words are hard line negative, while they may be raw meat for those who agree, they will turn off convincing or influencing anyone that we need to sway.

Someone on the fence or undertain about the President's policies will not move off their position because we want him to fail, they move because we give them a better option and direction.

We also should not play their game, by their rules. We need to play our game by our rules and really differentiate who are the leaders as opposed to the thugs in the schoolyard.

988 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:57:58pm

re: #982 iLikeCandy

Perhaps if we dropped this childish rhetoric and focused on promoting a positive agenda, we'd be getting somewhere. But we're not getting anywhere with this nonsense. Instead we're getting clobbered because we want to keep behaving like children. Go ahead and persist in this, but you'll be handing 0bama another electoral victory in 2012.

989 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:58:58pm

re: #987 Athos

Someone on the fence or undertain about the President's policies will not move off their position because we want him to fail, they move because we give them a better option and direction.

I really don't understand why people on this thread are not grasping this.

990 Gus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:59:03pm

The main problem is that this has become a recurring theme. As Charles points out that hoping for failure was defended by Governor Jindal. Then days later we have Fred Thompson nearly defending this meme of failure but more to the point continuing the dialogue.

The Republican party should be on a positive track because the American people do not want to hear their politicians hoping for the failure of a president. Regardless of how you feel that not how the averages work out.

The Republicans need to stop taking the bait and finally say something to the effect of: this is not about hoping for the failure of the president but about working for the success of America.

991 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 9:59:42pm

re: #981 Charles

I see Darleen is now trashing me at Protein Wisdom. Typical.

In commemoration of Darleen's booting:

Troll barfs in lizard
eyes. Charles stands firm.
The ban stick falls.

992 Dasher  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:00:11pm

I for one want my country to succeed and to flourish, and to promote freedom, and provide a strong defense. For all of those to happen, Obama must fail.

993 wong fei hung  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:00:51pm

re: #980 realwest

Anything but bitching and moaning.

The Stimulus Tea Parties are a great start.

Those folks are making their anger heard. Instead of "hoping the President fails", they are taking to the streets to get their message heard. To show their displeasure with what's going on.

Beats the hell out of "hoping" and "wanting", don't it?

-WFH

994 realwest  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:00:56pm

re: #983 Silvergirl
Well, as Charles has said - repeatedly - it's ok to criticize Obama - indeed I think any "thinking person" would have a hard time not criticisning him.
Charles point was, I believe, that wishing Obama to Fail is wishing for America to fail.
I think if Obama succeeds, then America will become a socialist, Nanny State - you know like in Europe where they are all doing SO WELL with Socialism.
But other than offering what I personally perceive to be the true basis of Republicanism: individual liberty,individual responsibility, small government, supporting small business to help create jobs, a strong national defense, cutting taxes and not enacting more entitlement programs, what do YOU think the GOP should be doing?

995 Ghost707  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:01:58pm

What the GOP needs to be yelling at the top of their lungs at every chance possible is that:
CONGRESS HAS NOW CUT OUT THE MIDDLE CLASS TAX CUTS IN THE BUDGET!

AND THROW THAT RIGHT IN OBAMA'S FACE EVERY CHANCE THEY GET!

996 wong fei hung  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:03:23pm

re: #990 Gus 802

Gus - I agree 100%, but I also think its just plain counter-productive. No one has been able to say what Jindal or Thompson has accomplished with their statements. We need to put ideas out there. Traditional principles. Anything else is a waste of time.

997 Buster Bunny  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:03:48pm

re: #995 Ghost707

You've obviously never played politics.

You NEVER degrade on a notion of tax cuts. You either pass it or stay quiet when you dont pass it. Any degradation will be taken and broadcast by the other party as a sign of fiscal weakness .. whether it succeeds or not.

998 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:04:15pm

re: #990 Gus 802

This country is in crisis and tossing "fail" into the rhetoric looks petty and unAmerican. In crisis time, no one wants to hear, "I hope for failure". It looks like one wants to further the pain and suffering of the American people when they say something like that. And I'm not one to hope we move to socialism. That's not the point. The point is there is a much better way to get our message across than this.

999 Athos  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:04:29pm

re: #974 Zimriel

Bush was fighting a war on militant Wahhabism overseas. Overseas, Obama is doing something with the word "contingency" in it. Obama's priorities are domestic; his enemies are class enemies right here at home.

At least Bush saw his enemies outside the US. Excuse me while I don't pat Obama on the back and wish him well.

No problem, I don't intend on patting him on the back either. I will however, do all I can to delay his policies or convince others to seek policies that do not repeat major past mistakes. I will oppose his policies and directions. But I will not alienate myself from those I have to convince by starting with saying I want him to fail. When that happens, I am no different in terms of relevance from those who said the same to Bush....and those on the fense will not consider my words with the appropriate weighting.

1000 Gus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:04:49pm

re: #996 wong fei hung

Gus - I agree 100%, but I also think its just plain counter-productive. No one has been able to say what Jindal or Thompson has accomplished with their statements. We need to put ideas out there. Traditional principles. Anything else is a waste of time.

Yes. Ideas along with performance. Right now this is just negative campaigning and it won't work.

1001 nikis-knight  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:05:27pm

It's poor tact to actually speel it out, but Barak Obama's sucess, at least in his domestic policies, are mutually exclusive with America's sucess and well being, as Mark Steyn recently pointed out in NR. So as far as that goes, I do hope he fails, in that he doesn't manage to continue getting this garbage through congress. Given the congress we have, that's not likely; he will suceed, and we'll fail, unless we can turn it around after 2010.
Conversely, I don't think his international goals are bad, but I think his tactics are, literally, impossible given human nature and the state of the world. So I'd like him to suceed in this arena, but I have zero hope that he'll do so.

Yeah, it's poor tact to say it out loud, which is only a sign that voters are foolish and we're in for trouble anyway. Doesn't make me happy, but me emotions aren't going to effect it anyway.

1002 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:05:41pm

re: #996 wong fei hung

No one has been able to say what Jindal or Thompson has accomplished with their statements.

I'll say what they've accomplished -- they've further cemented the impression in many American voters' minds that the GOP is a party of angry, intolerant losers.

1003 Athos  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:05:57pm

re: #973 realwest

I will go back and read them.

1004 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:06:43pm

I have no intention of patting 0bama on the back.

I have every intention of ripping all of his policies and gaffes to shreds.

I also want the GOP to give me a positive agenda that I may convince independents to come to our side.

I need honey, not vinegar.

1005 nikis-knight  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:06:54pm

re: #1001 nikis-knight

I mispelled "spell"? Damn, that sure makes me look like a moron.

1006 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:07:19pm

re: #990 Gus 802

The main problem is that this has become a recurring theme. As Charles points out that hoping for failure was defended by Governor Jindal. Then days later we have Fred Thompson nearly defending this meme of failure but more to the point continuing the dialogue.

The Republican party should be on a positive track because the American people do not want to hear their politicians hoping for the failure of a president. Regardless of how you feel that not how the averages work out.

The Republicans need to stop taking the bait and finally say something to the effect of: this is not about hoping for the failure of the president but about working for the success of America.

People are scared right now. The economy, you may have noticed, is crashing. Turning to a country, approximately half of whom voted for the new president, and saying "We hope he screws up," no matter how wholeheartedly anyone may feel it, is not going to win friends and influence people. People will not hear, "We don't like his policies," they'll hear "We don't care if you ever work again, so long as we get to say we were right."

1007 Gus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:07:24pm

re: #998 Sharmuta

This country is in crisis and tossing "fail" into the rhetoric looks petty and unAmerican. In crisis time, no one wants to hear, "I hope for failure". It looks like one wants to further the pain and suffering of the American people when they say something like that. And I'm not one to hope we move to socialism. That's not the point. The point is there is a much better way to get our message across than this.

I think so. Like I said before the electorate for the most part do not judge these thing along ideological lines. This loses the independent voters and the swing voters and for the most part comes of as "sour grapes" along with being Un-American. It increase an image problem on a party already battered with an image problem even from within its ranks.

1008 wong fei hung  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:08:00pm

re: #1002 Charles

And judging by some of the responses here tonight, who could blame 'em?

-WFH

1009 realwest  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:08:39pm

re: #993 wong fei hung
Well I'm not entirely sure what you would consider bitching and moaning. He just proposed - and given the Democratic Majority in the House and (with some help from Specter, Collins or Snowe) in the Senate, will probably get a $3+ TRILLION budget - does criticizing THAT constitute bitching and moaning? Does taxing the ass off of small business in a time of economic depression and high unemployment make sense to you? It doesn't to me but if I say that, am I "bitching and moaning"? The Tea Parties are GREAT. Too bad hardly anyone knows about them because Obama's MSM doesn't cover them.
Just as they won't cover any "Positive" programs put forth by the Right, because by putting those positive programs forth, the MSM will report it as "bitching and moaning" about Obama and his policies.

1010 realwest  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:09:14pm

re: #1003 Athos
Thank you.

1011 Gus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:09:26pm

re: #1006 SanFranciscoZionist

People are scared right now. The economy, you may have noticed, is crashing. Turning to a country, approximately half of whom voted for the new president, and saying "We hope he screws up," no matter how wholeheartedly anyone may feel it, is not going to win friends and influence people. People will not hear, "We don't like his policies," they'll hear "We don't care if you ever work again, so long as we get to say we were right."

I'll tell you an odd feeling I've been getting recently. Whenever the Dow goes up I actually find myself thinking "oh no, this will only make Obama's approval ratings go up." Then I catch myself with the counter thought of "wait a minute, if the economy improves work might pick up."

1012 Buster Bunny  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:09:37pm

re: #1002 Charles

Sorry Charles, thats EXACTLY what they are until they get this creationist itch out of their system. You end up being judged by the company you keep. And people just wont vote for a representational bunch of religious nuts, even if they are the better option out of the two.

People remember actually having some money in their back pockets during the reign of Bill Clinton. So unfortunately they believe that a Democrat might just bring wealth with him too. And the papers .. reinforce this.

1013 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:09:46pm

perhaps if the MSM would stop depicting the whacks in the Republican Party as if they were mainstream Republicans and not the fringe and the same for the Talk Radio depicting the Democrats as all left-wing socialists, we would realize that the majority of the country regardless of party doesn't go for the extreme.

I'm wondering if the Liberatarians might have a chance next time around.

1014 plumber  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:10:04pm

I did not vote for obama because I believed his policies would severely damage the U.S. - And they certainly will: obama is going to bring great harm to this country.
This Fail thing is tricky isn't it. I believe if this man were to do the things that in his heart he wants to do - lose the Iraq War, provide Gitmo terrorists with what he perceives to be justice, nationalize health care, destroy Conservative Radio and Internet, remake America, etc. - that it would be disastrous for our nation. I want him to fail like a &*%$#@!* at these initiatives.
But I can't say that because the middle will turn against my cause.
The Left is masterful at what they do. What facts do liberals have to validate any of their arguments? They don't need any if a man who will ruin the United States ... if I must say I want him to succeed.

1015 pink freud  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:10:27pm

Time is on our side. When those who are still sitting on their duffs waiting for 0bama to pay their mortgages start seeing themselves (Us!? How could you tax *us*!?) go from paying nothing to paying a minimum of ten per cent, eyes will begin to open. When an 0bama voter making 24K a year and barely making it realizes that the Messiah is going to be taking 15%, then we will see.

2009 Tax Tables, Single Filing Status

# 10% on income between $0 and $8,350
# 15% on the income between $8,350 and $33,950; plus $835
# 25% on the income between $33,950 and $82,250; plus $4,675
# 28% on the income between $82,250 and $171,550; plus $16,750
# 33% on the income between $171,550 and $372,950; plus $41,754
# 35% on the income over $372,950; plus $108,216

1016 wiffersnapper  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:11:10pm

Shouldn't this be called the Epic Fail?

1017 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:11:36pm

re: #1011 Gus 802

I'll tell you an odd feeling I've been getting recently. Whenever the Dow goes up I actually find myself thinking "oh no, this will only make Obama's approval ratings go up." Then I catch myself with the counter thought of "wait a minute, if the economy improves work might pick up."

That's pretty funny, actually. I suspect you are not alone.

1018 Zimriel  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:12:01pm

re: #981 Charles

I see Darleen is now trashing me at Protein Wisdom. Typical.

Yeah, she did, and I called her on it:

“anyone that dare breathes that maybe the Universe might have a designer becomes his total enemy.”

You mean “anyone who passive-aggressively misrepresents Charles’s position has revealed herself as his total enemy already”, I’m sure…

1019 Summer Seale  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:12:02pm

Did I arrive too late to witness all the exorcisms? =)

1020 Silvergirl  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:12:51pm

re: #1005 nikis-knight

I mispelled "spell"? Damn, that sure makes me look like a moron.

You also misspelled misspell, but incorrect spelling does not make you a moron.

1021 Buster Bunny  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:13:11pm

re: #1019 Summer

Did I arrive too late to witness all the exorcisms? =)

There is still some leftover pea soup if you want to try out for the part.

1022 wong fei hung  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:13:14pm

re: #1009 realwest

So you're conceding that its pointless to do anything BUT to desire him to fail because the MSM will twist whatever Conservatives do into whatever shape they so please?

Just wave the white flag cause its seemingly hopeless? C'mon, man.

-WFH

1023 Gus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:13:39pm

re: #1017 SanFranciscoZionist

That's pretty funny, actually. I suspect you are not alone.

It is pretty funny. But when it happens it's kind of disturbing. I find myself thinking about how do I reconcile myself opposing needs.

1024 Zimriel  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:13:46pm

re: #1011 Gus 802

I'll tell you an odd feeling I've been getting recently. Whenever the Dow goes up I actually find myself thinking "oh no, this will only make Obama's approval ratings go up." Then I catch myself with the counter thought of "wait a minute, if the economy improves work might pick up."

Here's another of my quotes from there (I'm still trying to work out the implications, morally) -

Here’s something that has been troubling me: are we more loyal to a pan-European / observant-Jewish, wealth-creating social class, or to the people currently enclosed within the US’s borders?

Try this on : “I trust my class more than I trust my countrymen. Obama hurts my class. Even if America becomes stronger under Obama, it will be in the form of a fascist empire set against me. Therefore I want America to fail as long as Obama runs it.”

If you oppose Obama because he will make the country weaker, that’s patriotic. If you oppose Obama because he will make your family and your culture weaker, that’s not patriotic. I suspect that for those arguing the most forcefully that Obama should fail, the second argument is foremost.

1025 Silvergirl  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:14:41pm

re: #1019 Summer

Did I arrive too late to witness all the exorcisms? =)

I don't know, I think someone trashing Charles on some online place I never heard of might need some help in exorcising her demons.

1026 Summer Seale  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:15:06pm

re: #1021 Buster Bunny

There is still some leftover pea soup if you want to try out for the part.

I think I must have been channeling The Great Prophet Zarquon. =)

1027 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:15:41pm

re: #1009 realwest

Well I'm not entirely sure what you would consider bitching and moaning. He just proposed - and given the Democratic Majority in the House and (with some help from Specter, Collins or Snowe) in the Senate, will probably get a $3+ TRILLION budget - does criticizing THAT constitute bitching and moaning? Does taxing the ass off of small business in a time of economic depression and high unemployment make sense to you? It doesn't to me but if I say that, am I "bitching and moaning"? The Tea Parties are GREAT. Too bad hardly anyone knows about them because Obama's MSM doesn't cover them.
Just as they won't cover any "Positive" programs put forth by the Right, because by putting those positive programs forth, the MSM will report it as "bitching and moaning" about Obama and his policies.

Again, then we need to open our wallets and help fund ads to promote our programs. If it cost money to make ourselves heard, then we need to find the money.

1028 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:15:42pm

I think this goes to show that in the PR world republicans still get a failing grade. We have no idea what we're doing in this regard. I'd go so far as to say, EPIC FAIL. We're clueless.

1029 TheMatrix31  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:16:10pm

re: #995 Ghost707

What the GOP needs to be yelling at the top of their lungs at every chance possible is that:
CONGRESS HAS NOW CUT OUT THE MIDDLE CLASS TAX CUTS IN THE BUDGET!

AND THROW THAT RIGHT IN OBAMA'S FACE EVERY CHANCE THEY GET!

Really? Where'd you read that? That's hilarious.

1030 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:16:20pm

re: #1024 Zimriel

I think we are in uncharted territory in a lot of respects--the economy, racial matters, security issues. People are scared on many levels.

1031 wong fei hung  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:16:37pm

re: #1009 realwest

And for the record, there's NOTHING wrong with criticizing him. I do it multiple times daily. I can't stand the President, frankly.

The issue is that Republicans however, really ought not be happy that their party leaders were out there dishing this kind of garbage, instead of offering concrete ideas and alternatives.

-WFH

1032 Summer Seale  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:16:39pm

re: #1028 Sharmuta

I think this goes to show that in the PR world republicans still get a failing grade. We have no idea what we're doing in this regard. I'd go so far as to say, EPIC FAIL. We're clueless.

I think we really have to start our own party at this point in time. =)

1033 Dasher  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:17:12pm

re: #1015 pink freud

Time is on our side. When those who are still sitting on their duffs waiting for 0bama to pay their mortgages start seeing themselves (Us!? How could you tax *us*!?) go from paying nothing to paying a minimum of ten per cent, eyes will begin to open. When an 0bama voter making 24K a year and barely making it realizes that the Messiah is going to be taking 15%, then we will see.

2009 Tax Tables, Single Filing Status

# 10% on income between $0 and $8,350
# 15% on the income between $8,350 and $33,950; plus $835
# 25% on the income between $33,950 and $82,250; plus $4,675
# 28% on the income between $82,250 and $171,550; plus $16,750
# 33% on the income between $171,550 and $372,950; plus $41,754
# 35% on the income over $372,950; plus $108,216

If Congress/Obama let the Bush tax cuts expire on Dec 21, 2010, there will be no 10 percent bracket, it will be 15 percent for the lowest bracket.

Obama says he wants to return to 39.6 percent for those earning $250,000 or more, the same as Bill Clinton did in 1993. Only problem is the equivalent income today would be $420,000. So the Obama tax would be much more onerous.

1034 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:18:24pm

re: #1007 Gus 802

I think so. Like I said before the electorate for the most part do not judge these thing along ideological lines. This loses the independent voters and the swing voters and for the most part comes of as "sour grapes" along with being Un-American. It increase an image problem on a party already battered with an image problem even from within its ranks.

But we don't need appeal to those independent and swing voters, look what that did for McCain. Screw them, let's keep bitching and whining like bratty little children, that will definitely get us votes.
///

I've seen so many stupid 'true conservative' talking points since this last election I could recite them in my sleep.

1035 pink freud  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:19:13pm

And here's the next one:

Married Filing Jointly or Qualifying Widow(er) Filing Status

2009 (Tax Rate Schedule Y-1)

* 10% on the income between $0 and $16,700
* 15% on the income between $16,700 and $67,900; plus $1,670
* 25% on the income between $67,900 and $137,050; plus $9,350
* 28% on the income between $137,050 and $208,850; plus $26,637.50
* 33% on the income between $208,850 and $372,950; plus $46,741.50
* 35% on the income over $372,950; plus $100,894.50

All the caterwalling about hope and change will change to a roar when this beings to dawn on everyone, dem and repub alike.

1036 Gus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:19:33pm

re: #1024 Zimriel

Then that divides things between personal and social outlooks. Personal would be for ones own financial security. Social could be seen as patriotic values. Etc.re: #1028 Sharmuta

I think this goes to show that in the PR world republicans still get a failing grade. We have no idea what we're doing in this regard. I'd go so far as to say, EPIC FAIL. We're clueless.

The PR factor is rarely mentioned in public but it's an important factor in gaining support.

1037 Zimriel  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:19:46pm

re: #1030 ggt

I think we are in uncharted territory in a lot of respects--the economy, racial matters, security issues. People are scared on many levels.

This answers #983 silvergirl, "Why are you reacting so strongly as if someone here actually asked you to do anything remotely like patting Obama on the back and wishing him well?"

1038 dkorta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:20:20pm

re: #869 Pietr

I'm still waiting on your response about the US Navy carelessly shooting up Sampans in Vietnam, Avanti...here's something to respond to:


re: #683 Pietr

Oh come on, man. Everyone knows that shit happened all the time in 'Nam. I just saw a documentary about it. It was called "Apocalypse Now" or something. I'm not sure. I scored some great Lebanese Blond Hash right before I watched it and....
huh?....
what?....
/

1039 Buster Bunny  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:22:14pm

re: #1038 dkorta

And they killed Marlon Brando !

Scum !

1040 JonQuixote  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:22:28pm

Charles, you are spot-on.

Ever since this thing erupted over Rush saying he wanted Obama to fail, even with his qualifiers, something had been nagging at me, but given the vehement opposition that Obama was (and still is) fomenting in my mind, I didn't dwell on it too much.

But reading what you said in the lead-in to this comment thread, I recalled that I said something similar to the McCain campaign, via a letter I submitted in July 2008, when they were totally floundering. One of my main points was that if one were to liken the presidential derby to a job interview, saying the other guy is a f-up, is corrupt, is going to damage America, is not the same thing as saying why you would be better for the job. This isn't linguistics; it is a fundamental difference.

All McCain was doing at that time was bitching about and mocking Obama - there was nothing about why he'd be better. As I said in my letter, if this persists, Obama isn't going to "win" so much as you are going to lose, to hand him a victory that he could not have won on his own merits. And we got an object lesson in how that worked out.

We must remain vigilant (as LGF has been) in pointing out, and vehemently opposing, the myriad ways in which Obama is undermining America, and endangering us. But only doing that - without submitting the right principles, without saying "this is what he should be doing - and why" and "this is what we would be doing - and why" - it's not the same thing. And as you point out, to those who are on the sidelines (the "middle"), whom both parties are feverishly fighting over, although they may not be able to articulate it, they can tell the difference. To say you want the other guy to "fail," when that guy happens to be the POTUS, is to almost forfeit your entry-pass to the public discussion.

This isn't just semantics. This is, as you said, fundamental to victory. The raging leftists who are pulling Obama's strings know it well, and are laughing their asses off at the moment.

Non-leftists are so disjointed, so lacking in the ability to voice what they (we) are for, rather than what they (we) are against, that the raging leftists and their MSM acolytes are having a field day. They could not hope for a more inept opponent at this point.

This is a discussion that we need to have. Thank you for highlighting it. Keep it up, Charles.

1041 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:22:35pm

re: #1013 ggt

perhaps if the MSM would stop depicting the whacks in the Republican Party as if they were mainstream Republicans and not the fringe and the same for the Talk Radio depicting the Democrats as all left-wing socialists, we would realize that the majority of the country regardless of party doesn't go for the extreme.

I think that could be key.

BTW, apropos of nothing at all, (this is weird and convoluted, warning) I was reading a back issue of Cosmopolitan Girl (they have teen magazines at one of the places I work at, I had nothing to read at lunch). One of their features is a comic strip about two teenage girls who are friends.

This was the November issue, and I thought the strip was rather interesting. One girl is saying that she doesn't know if she's really a Republican or if she just thinks she is because her parents are. She and her friend go online to find information about issues, and determine that indeed she is a real Republican. Her friend asks her to come to a Young Democrats get-together anyway--'you know, just to test it out'.

While there, she meets a cute young man, and pretends to be a Democrat to get a date. He find out, and dumps her for being 'fake', and at the end, she learns that he is now dating the head of the Young Republicans in their town and vows to be true to herself in future.

Very goopy, but I was interested in the portrayal of teens making political choices. It's rather a good magazine, actually. I wish there'd been something like it when I was a teenager. Interesting, because the adult Cosmo is really not my cup of tea.

1042 realwest  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:22:54pm

re: #1011 Gus 802

I'll tell you an odd feeling I've been getting recently. Whenever the Dow goes up I actually find myself thinking "oh no, this will only make Obama's approval ratings go up." Then I catch myself with the counter thought of "wait a minute, if the economy improves work might pick up."

Hey Gus 802 - I have to say that when the Dow goes up, it makes me happy. I HATE to see America down like this. But I don't see Obama's policies as having a beneficial effect on the Dow or our economy in general in the mid to long term. Yes there are indeed answers to what I perceive to be Obama's horrid policies, but regretfully, with the MSM still in Obama's hip pocket there is no way to get a postive message that is contrary to what Obama is saying, out to the American people. NONE.
Charles saved us - I truly believe - from a Kerry Presidency by exposing Rathergate. But I don't see the internet as being able to accomplish the same thing where Obama is concerned.
LGFer juante said the other night and I believe again on today's DT, that there are some 300+ "Critical" jobs at Treasury. So far Geithner/Obama has only been able to fill 75 of those jobs. In a time of economic crisis, it turns out Britain wasn't kidding when they said they called the US Treasury Department and couldn't find anyone to speak to. Was that covered by the MSM? NO. It turns out that Rep. Pete Starks (D-California) has been claiming a home he owns in Maryland as his primary residence and Rep. Henry Wexler (D-Florida) has been doing the same thing - and both of those men sit on economically important congressional committees - did the MSM report that? NO.
I don't know how the hell the GOP could get it's postitive messages about tax cuts, support of small business, strong National Defense, etc. etc. etc. out without the assistance of the MSM and they won't cover it.

1043 Gus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:23:30pm

re: #1034 Slumbering Behemoth

But we don't need appeal to those independent and swing voters, look what that did for McCain. Screw them, let's keep bitching and whining like bratty little children, that will definitely get us votes.
///

I've seen so many stupid 'true conservative' talking points since this last election I could recite them in my sleep.

Yet people argue that McCain took on Palin to garner more conservative voters. Thus losing appeal from independent voters. Mind you I stuck with him regardless.

I think last years election is more of an anomaly and should be taken as a rule. Even though it was indeed a close election the numbers weren't in the GOPs favor for many reasons beyond McCain himself: the Obama popularity, the MSM, The Iraq War, etc.

That being said you have to remember the appeal Reagan had and the Reagan Democrats. So there is cross ideological appeal in our history.

1044 Dasher  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:23:41pm
Charles: "Creationist governor Bobby Jindal came out last night defending this crap..."

Dang and I thought Jindal was a Republican. Not some 'Creationist' third party.

1045 Athos  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:23:46pm

re: #724 realwest


I'm not saying I want America to fail; I want America to succeed IN SPITE of Obama's wrong headed policies. But you don't get from here to there by not saying his policies are WRONG and heres why: a-z and aa-zz.

Where I am differing is that if we are going to convince those who got caught up in the 'history', the 'euphoria', the 'hope and change' and other populist claptrap, we are not going to be able to reach them by either saying we want the President to fail or even want his policies to fail, but to use an argument based on what happened in our history (1930's, 1970's) when these same policies were tried and what the results were. Look at the polls, despite all of the gaffes and flubs and unforced errors his Admin has made, he still has strong approval ratings. This isn't personal - it's business / politics. The policies will cause far reaching problems that may be intended or may be unintended, but we've seen this before. If I am going to convince someone to move their support from 'The One' to a more conservative approach, I will do so by educating them and showing them what happened before when they tried this before, and what happened before when they tried what I proposed before. I will given them a better hope to change to - and they will change....we only have to hope that the damage done is not irreversible....and I don't think it would be. Painful - but not irreversible.

I don't want America to fail, but I surely don't want Barack Obama to succeed, because he's gonna be succeeding (if he does) by creating so many new entitlement programs our economy will be in a permanent hole and folks will no longer accept personal responsibility for their failings, but will look to the "nanny state" to take care of them. I don't frankly think there's ANY sort of positive message that the GOP could come up with that would defeat that trifecta.

Yeah, as de'Tocqueville opined 160-170 years ago, the American Republic will fail when the politicians realize they can bribe the people with the people's own money. But think back a few weeks.....traction was being gained in fighting some of Obama / Pelosi / Reid's efforts when it was pointed out that only 8% of the population are getting aid - in major trouble and getting entitlements....with 92% paying for those 8. The 92% weren't very happy - as they shouldn't be with the efforts at income redistribution. Those policies give us the ammo we need to convince the 6-8 million in this country who voted for Obama to change their vote.

As for your #836 - how many people have seen this chart - Bush deficit vs Obama deficit - how many of those in the middle would look at that chart and start to re-think their position?

1046 Wendya  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:25:50pm

re: #943 Boxy_brown

Does having been in the US Navy as well give me license to demand to be taken seriously for saying ridiculous things?

It's never given me a free pass.

1047 Salem  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:26:10pm

Semantic arguments have a way of going on eternally with no winners. They should be outlawed.

1048 Dasher  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:26:22pm

Another chart: Debt Increase by Year, and 2009 YTD

1049 realwest  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:27:05pm

re: #1027 Dark_Falcon
Absolutely Spot On post. But where do we find the money? Who is "our" George Soros?
I've read that the RNC has raised a lot of money, far more than the DNC has, for the 2010 elections and I've had e-mail "chats" with Michael Steele who is devoted to regaining house and Senate seats.
But other than that, how do we get the money to pay for those ads?

1050 Athos  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:27:11pm

re: #1028 Sharmuta

I think this goes to show that in the PR world republicans still get a failing grade. We have no idea what we're doing in this regard. I'd go so far as to say, EPIC FAIL. We're clueless.

Nah, it only achieves an Epic Fail if this continues into 2010 and despite the non-resolution of problems, the GOP fails to regain Congress. Then it would be Epic Fail.

1051 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:27:29pm

re: #1043 Gus 802

I know that, you know that, a lot of Lizards here know that, but try telling it to the 'true conservative' circular firing squad.

To them, if you want to appeal to the undecideds, and the independents, then you're just a gawt-damned RINO.

1052 Gus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:28:15pm

re: #1042 realwest

I thought the unfilled positions at Treasury was common knowledge.

How the GOP can get their message clearer through the MSM will be difficult. Especially if you consider the outright bias. Yesterday's press conference gave me some glimmer of hope in that they seemed to be a bit more confrontational with the president.

1053 Dasher  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:29:10pm

re: #1048 Dasher

Another chart: Debt Increase by Year, and 2009 YTD

BTW: Debt increase is a better number than the faked Deficit number which uses congress's cooked books. Debt increase shows that Clinton never had a surplus.

1054 realwest  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:29:29pm

re: #1028 Sharmuta
No, Sharm, I diagree. We're not clueless. But we can't get our message out through the filters of the MSM.

1055 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:29:35pm

re: #1038 dkorta

Oh come on, man. Everyone knows that shit happened all the time in 'Nam. I just saw a documentary about it. It was called "Apocalypse Now" or something. I'm not sure. I scored some great Lebanese Blond Hash right before I watched it and....
huh?....
what?....
/

I actually fell asleep during Apocalypse Now. My husband and I rented it because we'd never seen it, and it was supposed to be important. (We're both Gen-Xers--I overlapped the war by fifteen months, he missed it altogether.)

The part with the helicopters playing "Ride of the Valkyries" and the surfing was riveting--not sure it important, but it got your attention. Then things started to go south. The weird French colonists. The Playboy models. Tres seventies. Tres pretentious. I started to doze.

I wandered in and out of sleep through the rest of the movie, and then went to bed and got up with the sense that I'd had a long weird dream about floating through a jungle.

1056 David Block  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:30:22pm

Well, let's see. What Obama policies do I wish to succeed?

Taxing companies that offshore jobs to India, etc.

Sadly, that's about it. The other taxes, the mandatory volunteer thing, cap and trade, global warming BS, continuing bailouts, more government take over of private industries, more government intervention, stricter gun control, nationalized health care, deficits until God knows when, tax cheats in higher offices, tax cheats in Congress, devout Marxism, anti-capitalism, card check, ACORN census fraud counters, and that's just off the top of my head. For those I desire EPIC FAIL.

None of them are good for the country. Yet somehow in saying the above, I am saying that I want America to fail. Not so. I think that if most of the above is implemented that America will fail. That's quite the opposite, don't you think?

So do I want Obama to succeed? For about 99 % of his agenda, the answer is no. If you are going to suggest that such means that I want America to fail, then I think that Obama cult of personality is stronger than I anticipated. The One has become one with the country. Let's see, where has that happened before?

1057 Gus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:31:44pm

re: #1051 Slumbering Behemoth

I know that, you know that, a lot of Lizards here know that, but try telling it to the 'true conservative' circular firing squad.

To them, if you want to appeal to the undecideds, and the independents, then you're just a gawt-damned RINO.

Yeah, I know. But in our history I think they all tried and did appeal to a broad spectrum. Eisenhower, Nixon, Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II. Of those I think Reagan was most successful because his message was universal.

1058 Wendya  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:31:51pm

re: #1056 David Block

Taxing companies that offshore jobs to India, etc.

Taxes are the reason they offshore those jobs in the first place.

1059 Dasher  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:31:54pm

Now that Obama has graduated from a teleprompter to a flat screen TV (LCD I assume) -- What is needed now is a plant with a universal remote to turn it off. TOTUS's revenge.

1060 Dasher  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:32:46pm

re: #1057 Gus 802

Yeah, I know. But in our history I think they all tried and did appeal to a broad spectrum. Eisenhower, Nixon, Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II. Of those I think Reagan was most successful because his message was universal.

Out of that list only one was a conservative

1061 Salem  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:33:17pm

HEY OBAMA! LEGALIZE IT, MON!

That's one success I'd like to see...

1062 Athos  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:34:12pm

Realwest - another way to look at it. You and a co-worker, in the next office, are both in line for a major promotion at work - to Partner. But there still has to be an interview with the Senior Partner's. Do you use that interview with the Senior Partner's to demonstrate how incompetent and screwed up the other guy is - how he is destined to fail in that job and if he gets the job how you hopes he fails so they will see the error of their ways - or will you use the interview to demonstrate and convince the Senior Partner's that you have the skills, the vision, and leadership ability to do the job using specific examples from the past, selling yourself as opposed to running down the other guy?

Which employee would you promote?

1063 Gus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:34:36pm

re: #1060 Dasher

Out of that list only one was a conservative

Reagan. He was also charming and had a great sense of humor.

1064 Dasher  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:34:57pm

re: #1058 Wendya

Taxes are the reason they offshore those jobs in the first place.

The Federal govt is outsource condoms to China ... putting 300 people out of work in Alabama.

Best solution is ZERO corporate taxes.

1065 funky chicken  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:36:56pm

re: #6 Sharmuta

They have abandoned fiscal conservative policy and limited government. It's why I joined the party, and if they don't return to fiscal sanity, I will be politically homeless.

I've been politically homeless since the fundamentalists took over the GOP in my native KS 20 years ago. Shrug. You get kinda used to it. Most of the vocal GOP folks just don't want to hear that pushing federal anti-abortion and anti-gay marriage amendments is just another way to campaign for massively growth in government power.

1066 Buster Bunny  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:37:06pm

My answer to the GOP's woes?

Sarah Palin needs an effective dance partner. And we should be able to two-step all over the next election.

1067 Roses  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:37:18pm

re: #36 David Simon

I don't need to "hope" for failure: social security, socialized medicine, confiscatory taxation, negotiating from a position of weakness...all have proven to be disastrous policies....

We have to HOPE we survive this disaster of a man - a man who meets with his dot orgs, his stormtroopers, and sends them out to do his dirty work, to attack his own people - to rent buses and pretend to be a grassroots group, to terrorize his own people, to scapegoat them and use them to inflame the passions of the masses while hiding his own culpability. While he piously pretends to be something he is not.

He is a dangerous man who has declared war. Not on Islamic Extremists, not on those who behead people on camera, not on those who stone girls to death. He has declared war on US. On "conservatives" - whatever we are - Republican, Libertarian, whatever we are that stands in his way, we are the enemy, and the ACORN multi-headed hydra is activated, the smear machine, the attack machine sets out to destroy us the same way they went after Bush.

Do I want him to fail? Absolutely, yes I do. BECAUSE I want my country to succeed. Because I love the constitution. I love FREEDOM. I love the creative hardworking amazing spirit that built this country.

I do NOT love the hate-America crowd, the cry-poor and don hairshirt activist/leftist groups, and I do NOT want to see their agenda succeed.

We will not survive if he succeeds, unless he changes completely, and becomes a real President instead of an activist weapon that has reached its target.

1068 Dasher  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:38:41pm

re: #1067 Roses

Obama thinks like the community organizer he is, instead of as a President.

1069 dkorta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:39:07pm

re: #1055 SanFranciscoZionist

I actually fell asleep during Apocalypse Now. ........
I wandered in and out of sleep through the rest of the movie, and then went to bed and got up with the sense that I'd had a long weird dream about floating through a jungle.

Well, I recommend a second look, 'cause the scene in the documentary where they shoot up the Sampam definitely gives credence to everything Avanti has to say about his 'Nam experience.

1070 Zimriel  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:39:28pm

re: #1040 JonQuixote

But reading what you said in the lead-in to this comment thread, I recalled that I said something similar to the McCain campaign, via a letter I submitted in July 2008, when they were totally floundering. One of my main points was that if one were to liken the presidential derby to a job interview, saying the other guy is a f-up, is corrupt, is going to damage America, is not the same thing as saying why you would be better for the job. This isn't linguistics; it is a fundamental difference.

So, McCain was doing a job interview. Jeff G isn't; he's teaching a seminar.

There's a direct analogy with our treatment of creationists. Why be nice to 'em? They're just wrong. Call me names like "authoritarian", put my words through a German translator; but il se muove. On how we ought to interpret Rush, there's another instance where the electorate doesn't need convincing, it needs to be taught a lesson.

So Jeff G is trying to change the terms of debate. He is trying to get conservatives to stand up for the intentionalist theory of language, not the "lukewarm, neither hot nor cold, to be spit out" language of PR flacks.

We won't win over anyone if we give the impression that even we don't believe our own statements, much.

1071 pink freud  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:39:29pm

re: #1068 Dasher

Obama thinks like the community organizer he is, instead of as a President.

He thinks like a punk from all I have seen.

1072 funky chicken  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:39:34pm

re: #1063 Gus 802

Reagan. He was also charming and had a great sense of humor.

But Reagan wasn't much of a social conservative himself. He and Nancy were previously married. I read an interview with Nancy where she discussed that she was pregnant when she and Ron got married. Reagan attended several of the Dean Martin celebrity roasts, and there is video on You Tube of him having a heck of a good time, and likely enjoying adult beverages to boot.

1073 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:39:45pm

Was gone, but now I"m back. This thread still alive?

1074 Athos  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:40:13pm

re: #1042 realwest

I don't know how the hell the GOP could get it's postitive messages about tax cuts, support of small business, strong National Defense, etc. etc. etc. out without the assistance of the MSM and they won't cover it.

The GOP might have to do it itself....using New Media. The MSM was / is a huge benefit for Obama - but they are also out to keep their relevance and their power. I'm sure there are some in the MSM who look at 2008 as a victory over New Media because they selected and 'made' Obama. They proved once again that they can make a President - just as they proved they could bring one down.

New Media brought down Rather and exposed Rathergate....and it can be used to carry that new GOP message.

1075 Dasher  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:40:18pm

re: #1071 pink freud

He thinks like a punk from all I have seen.

Punk - Community Organizer same difference.

1076 realwest  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:41:18pm

re: #1045 Athos Athos, first of all THANK YOU for reading my comments. Secondly you and I don't disagree here - the problem is that the Republican message of small government, individual responsibility, tax cuts, support for small business, strong national defense - all of which are perfectly LEGITIMATE and POSITIVE positions will never get heard by the vast group of
"independents" or "Reagan Democrats" because of the filters the MSM has put on that news.
If y'all would be kind enough to read my #1042, you'll see what a pickle we're in. As I said to Dark Falcon up thread a short way, who the hell is "our" George Soros? HOW DO WE GET THE MESSAGE OUT. I'd really RATHER NOT see more and more Americans lose their jobs, or more and more American companies go under before the "middle" get the message.
And so far (see, e.g., the Andrew Cuomo thread) Obama's pitch to "class warfare" is going over with little criticism from the MSM.

1077 Zimriel  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:41:33pm

re: #1056 David Block

Well, let's see. What Obama policies do I wish to succeed?

Taxing companies that offshore jobs to India, etc.

Well, again: I feel more loyalty to hardworking Indians than I do to feckless, entitled Obama voters. That's the first thing. Secondly, when we're trying to deal with Pakistan going down the shitter, it's damned stupid to be screwing with our alliance with India.

1078 Roses  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:41:44pm

re: #1045 Athos

...As for your #836 - how many people have seen this chart - Bush deficit vs Obama deficit - how many of those in the middle would look at that chart and start to re-think their position?

THANKS for that link!

1079 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:42:21pm

re: #1041 SanFranciscoZionist

I read a lot of those mags in waiting rooms. Always good to know what is out there.

1080 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:43:17pm

re: #1067 Roses

We will not survive if he succeeds....

I will, but I'm real stubborn that way. I imagine most of the Lizards here are as well.

Obama may make things terrible. Maybe Carter terrible, maybe even Great Depression terrible, but he will not destroy this country, and this is no Obamapocolypse. Only "We The People" can destroy this country, and I don't see that happening any time soon.

1081 David Block  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:43:22pm

re: #1058 Wendya

Taxes are the reason they offshore those jobs in the first place.

Taxes and lower wages for the Indian workers. We know that much, we are reminded of it often enough. So I should take a reduction in pay and live here on what the Indians live in India on? That's not real practical.

So for 1064 Dasher I say:

Zero corporate taxes means that the Indians get my job as soon as they get sufficient training and I better get out of the programming business and start selling insurance. Except I sux as a salesman.

1082 Gus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:44:09pm

re: #1072 funky chicken

But Reagan wasn't much of a social conservative himself. He and Nancy were previously married. I read an interview with Nancy where she discussed that she was pregnant when she and Ron got married. Reagan attended several of the Dean Martin celebrity roasts, and there is video on You Tube of him having a heck of a good time, and likely enjoying adult beverages to boot.

That's true. You only have to look as far as his children. Having been an actor Reagan was exposed to some rather socially liberal aspects of America. Rock Hudson's lifestyle wasn't a secret with Hollywood insiders including President Reagan.

1083 funky chicken  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:44:57pm

re: #1066 Buster Bunny

My answer to the GOP's woes?

Sarah Palin needs an effective dance partner. And we should be able to two-step all over the next election.

Romney/Palin would be a good ticket. They may want to consider teaming up from the beginning. It would tame a lot of the evangelical skepticism of Romney's faith.

Why on earth they would prefer Obama's Black Liberation Theology to Romney's LDS, well.....don't ask me to explain.

These are the same types of folks who wouldn't vote for McCain.

1084 Silvergirl  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:45:13pm

re: #994 realwest

Well, as Charles has said - repeatedly - it's ok to criticize Obama - indeed I think any "thinking person" would have a hard time not criticisning him.
Charles point was, I believe, that wishing Obama to Fail is wishing for America to fail.
I think if Obama succeeds, then America will become a socialist, Nanny State - you know like in Europe where they are all doing SO WELL with Socialism.
But other than offering what I personally perceive to be the true basis of Republicanism: individual liberty,individual responsibility, small government, supporting small business to help create jobs, a strong national defense, cutting taxes and not enacting more entitlement programs, what do YOU think the GOP should be doing?

Hi Realwest. I'm not going to try to speak for the main point Charles is making, but how I'm feeling about this topic is that the hard fact is the conservative cause is not currently prevailing in the country. We lost the election. In order to gain strength and regain some ground, we cannot afford to act like losers. We lost, but we are not losers. Therefore we don't act like losers by developing an "I hope he fails" mantra and hugging it to ourselves like a life jacket. No matter how we explain what comes after "I hope he fails," by emphasizing "it's the policies, it's the not the country I want to fail," the first four words of the sentence are thunder and it drowns out what comes after.

What you said, realwest:

". . . individual liberty, individual responsibility, small government, supporting small business to help create jobs, a strong national defense, cutting taxes and not enacting more entitlement programs"

is the way I believe we need to go, and I would guess that a high percentage of lizards want the country to be and do those things you listed. And we can go there without going there, and by there I mean the FAIL place.

Mark Twain said something about thunder and lightning. "Thunder is good, thunder is impressive, but it is lightning that does the work." I said that the "fail" words are thunder that drown out the whole message, but working for what you said (individual liberty and responsibility, small government . . .) is the lightning.

1085 Dasher  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:45:19pm

As for your #836 - how many people have seen this chart - Bush deficit vs Obama deficit - how many of those in the middle would look at that chart and start to re-think their position?

That chart shows for 2009 that the deficit will be $1.85 trillion. It is $1.6+ trillion YTD, still 6 months to go in the fiscal year. I think it will easily top $2 trillion.

1086 David Block  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:45:22pm

re: #1077 Zimriel

Well, again: I feel more loyalty to hardworking Indians than I do to feckless, entitled Obama voters. That's the first thing. Secondly, when we're trying to deal with Pakistan going down the shitter, it's damned stupid to be screwing with our alliance with India.

I'm not a feckless entitled Ovomit voter. I like what I am doing and would like to keep doing it. Corporations want to send what I am doing over to India. I'm supposed to like it?

1087 Alberta Oil Peon  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:46:06pm

I'm not an American, nor am I a member of the GOP. I see Barack Obama as having an agenda that is diametrically opposite to the continued success of the USA as a nation. Therefore, I want him to fail; at the very least, I want his agenda to fail.

If, somehow, the country muddles through, and succeeds in spite of Obama's best efforts to sabotage it, and Obama manages to take credit for that success, well, I'll toast the nation's success, and let the Zero enjoy his illusory laurels.

If that makes me a negative SOB, then I'm a negative SOB. So be it.

And, for the record, I want to see GOP idiotarians, like Jindal, Buchanan, and Discovery Institute to fail, too.

1088 Dasher  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:46:38pm

re: #1086 David Block

I'm not a feckless entitled Ovomit voter. I like what I am doing and would like to keep doing it. Corporations want to send what I am doing over to India. I'm supposed to like it?

That is what happens with 35 percent federal tax and 7-10 percent state tax on corporations. They have no choice but to out source.

1089 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:46:58pm

re: #1072 funky chicken

Reagan was a pro-abortion democrat turned republican. He wasn't nothing but a gawt-damned RINO!
////

Obviously I am being sarcastic, but what would some 'true conservatives' have to say about him if he were running for POTUS today?

1090 realwest  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:47:02pm

re: #1062 Athos Great comment and analogy! Regrettably I'll NEVER GET THAT INTERVIEW - not while the MSM is manning Obama's gates.
Yes, of course you stress your competence, abilities and all. I've been in that situation - literally - and I also gave some praise to my competitor - things I believed he really did well. But I had someone to speak to who was not only willing to hear from me, but wanted to hear from me.
This is a whole other ballgame entirely.

1091 Gus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:48:21pm

re: #1089 Slumbering Behemoth

Reagan was a pro-abortion democrat turned republican. He wasn't nothing but a gawt-damned RINO!
////

Obviously I am being sarcastic, but what would some 'true conservatives' have to say about him if he were running for POTUS today?

He also nominated a couple of activist judges to the SCOTUS!

//

1092 Buster Bunny  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:48:26pm

re: #1084 Silvergirl

The men who complain about the rushing river will never be remembered.

It is the men who built the bridge over the river that will hold the gratitude.

1093 Wendya  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:49:05pm

re: #1064 Dasher

Best solution is ZERO corporate taxes.

I would tend to agree with that but the government and the voting public tends to view corporations as piggy banks. They public is completely clueless as to the ramifications of our taxation policy.

1094 Roses  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:49:47pm

re: #1070 Zimriel

...creationists. Why be nice to 'em?...

Fact is, any human being in America can be a Republican. Whenever a person registers to vote, THEY get to pick what they want to register as. Each has his or her own reasons for choosing a particular box.

You may be pro-life, the person next to you may be pro-choice, you may both share a fiscally comnservative outlook. One may be pro-environmentalists, the other pro-business - we would do better to look at what does unite us and quit bashing on people for their religious or other beliefs - those are their own, and the left does a perfectly fine job of bashing on them already.

What unites us? I would bet it is a LOVE OF FREEDOM - a true appreciation of the notion of FREEDOM OF RELIGION, FREEDOM OF SPEECH, and all the others.

Where the left wants to take all that away, in the guise of taking care of you.

I would bet that what unites us is INDIVIDUALISM. That's why you be nice to 'em, Zim.

And if we aren't, we are killing ourselves, and any hope of protecting this country from the fascist nanny-staters that have succeeded in taking the Presidency.

1095 Zimriel  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:50:07pm

re: #1081 David Block

Taxes and lower wages for the Indian workers. We know that much, we are reminded of it often enough. So I should take a reduction in pay and live here on what the Indians live in India on? That's not real practical.

So for 1064 Dasher I say:

Zero corporate taxes means that the Indians get my job as soon as they get sufficient training and I better get out of the programming business and start selling insurance. Except I sux as a salesman.

That's nonsense. There are plenty of programming jobs in America, which pay well over the median income. There are plenty of nice places in America, where the cost of living is not so high.

As for your worries about not attracting the high salary you want: That's just capitalism, and that's just life. Get some training and get a job that does pay; it needn't be sales. (Project management over a group which supervises the aforementioned Gujaratis, perhaps.)

1096 Athos  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:52:47pm

re: #1076 realwest

Just a continuation of my thoughts that we have to start better leveraging the New Media to get this message out. Look, this message will not get any better treatment during the 22 minutes of the evening news runs....but those combined don't get the viewers CBS News did alone 20 years ago. That's passe. And we're not going to get much treatment from MSNBC other than being named as Olberidiot's Worst Person / Idea / Plan of the Day. I don't see CNN giving us more than 10% of the coverage either. As for most newspapers, well, the ones that aren't out of business for the most will not take it seriously either - rarely seeing closer to Page 1 than below the fold A18. Some papers will cover the message and FNC will likely cover the message.

But the secret is going to be viral / guerilla marketing - creating a buzz. And if we both are (unfortunately) right about the economic recovery being longer and slower than it could be otherwise, the 92% who don't want to work and pay for the 8% will start to look for alternatives ANYWHERE that would disrupt that unfairness....and they will find, I hope, a cogent positive counterargument from Conservatives that will begin to get a buzz of word of mouth recommendations. One side is negative - in results and approach, and the other side is positive and reflecting core American values......which would be more convincing to those on the fence in the middle?

1097 Dasher  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:52:51pm

re: #1095 Zimriel

The thing is corporations don't pay income taxes there customers pay them. But when the corporation is competing against those in a country who's taxes are 1/2 of ours they lose customers, and jobs, and maybe go out of business.

1098 funky chicken  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:54:41pm

re: #1055 SanFranciscoZionist

I actually fell asleep during Apocalypse Now. My husband and I rented it because we'd never seen it, and it was supposed to be important. (We're both Gen-Xers--I overlapped the war by fifteen months, he missed it altogether.)

The part with the helicopters playing "Ride of the Valkyries" and the surfing was riveting--not sure it important, but it got your attention. Then things started to go south. The weird French colonists. The Playboy models. Tres seventies. Tres pretentious. I started to doze.

I wandered in and out of sleep through the rest of the movie, and then went to bed and got up with the sense that I'd had a long weird dream about floating through a jungle.

Damn, we must be twins separated at birth. I watched it in college though, and was half baked, and still could only bear the first half or so....and then it just got ludicrously boring. And not much is that boring on halucinogens. I mean we used to enjoy the solid blue screen that came on in the wee hours.

1099 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:55:18pm

re: #1083 funky chicken

Romney/Palin would be a good ticket. They may want to consider teaming up from the beginning. It would tame a lot of the evangelical skepticism of Romney's faith.

Why on earth they would prefer Obama's Black Liberation Theology to Romney's LDS, well.....don't ask me to explain.

These are the same types of folks who wouldn't vote for McCain.

Lemme throw some stuff out there--as a fourth-generation Democrat, there were two Republicans who might have gotten my vote. McCain and Giuliani. I didn't expect to have the option of voting for either of them--I assumed Romney had the nomination, and I still planned on voting for Hillary at that stage. I was perfectly content, though, since I assumed I would disagree with a lot of Romney's policy, but thought he seemed stable and capable.

McCain remained appealing to me (perhaps for the reasons that leads some around here to call him a RINO), until Palin joined the ticket. She was absolutely toxic, as far as I was concerned.

I think Romney could have strong center appeal if the next four years do not see a rapid economic improvement and general foreign stability. I still think Palin is very dicey.

I don't know what to say about the LDS thing, though. I don't understand what the problem is, so I can't really think of a solution for it.

1100 Gus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:55:42pm

re: #1097 Dasher

The thing is corporations don't pay income taxes there customers pay them. But when the corporation is competing against those in a country who's taxes are 1/2 of ours they lose customers, and jobs, and maybe go out of business.

Of course there is the 1/2 of Social Security taxes they have to pay.

1101 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:55:48pm

Tell me something. "People" are trying to get involved in determining corporate CEO payroll/bonuses. "They make too much". Have these same "people" said anything about the salaries of pro-ball players or Hollywood execs? Does anyone know of a comparision of the salaries published anywhere in chart form? Say Oil Company execs vs. Hollywood Execs or Sports Execs?

1102 Dasher  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:56:36pm

re: #1097 Dasher

Not to Zimriel but to Dave Block.

1103 Dasher  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:57:41pm

re: #1100 Gus 802

Of course there is the 1/2 of Social Security taxes they have to pay.

And the FUTA tax (unemployment)

1104 Dasher  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 10:59:03pm

re: #1103 Dasher

But regardless of all the taxes they are paid transfer payments from customers to the government. The little left over is hopefully profit.

1105 Gus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:00:01pm

re: #1103 Dasher

And the FUTA tax (unemployment)

Or UI.

Then there's the Department of Labor, OSHA, Justice (Employment Law), Treasury, EPA, unions, property taxes on equipment, utilities, Federal, State, and local.

1106 rumcrook  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:01:56pm

this is frustrating becuase zero is all ready failing. thier is absolutely no reason to say you want it as a republican leader!

just let the man hoist himself by his own petard!

when the republicans make noise other than saying the straight forward truth which is they will opose obama trying to socialize and politicize the functioning of our economy they give him wiggle room to distract the sheeple.

the old saying is if someone is doing a fine job of screwing themselves dont get in the way.

1107 MrPaulRevere  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:02:59pm

Charles, I was disappointed to see Jeff G. crapping on you in the comments at protein wisdom. The poor guy is twisting himself into linguistic pretzels trying to defend Limbaugh et al...

1108 realwest  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:03:18pm

re: #1084 Silvergirl
Well,

is the way I believe we need to go, and I would guess that a high percentage of lizards want the country to be and do those things you listed. And we can go there without going there, and by there I mean the FAIL place.

is true enough as far as it goes. But it is our elected officials DUTY to point out to Obama and anyone else who'll listen, that some of his policies are going to fail in the mid to Long run and why. That's the obligation of elected Republicans. To be the "Loyal Opposition" as it were. But our voices whether critical or positive, are simply NOT being heard by the majority of American Voters. And unless and until that changes, the Loyal Oppostion has an obligation to the country to fend off, as best we can, those policies that we believe will fail. The MSM will not - at this point in time, allow a Rudy Guliani to talk positively about what Republicans offer as an alterantive to the Democrats policies. They just won't do so. So the only way "we" get airtime,so to speak, is to speak of the failures of Obama's policies.
And sometimes Obama's own personal failings - like RUSHING that Stimulus Bill through Congress because it was so IMMEDIATLEY NECESSARY and once it cleared Congress - with many Congressman admitting that they hadn't even READ the bill, Presidnet Obama takes THREE FULL DAYS before he signs the bill. Those Representatives and Senators could have use those three days to at least have their staffs' read the bill. That's a direct criticism of Obama, not his policies and it's still valid to point that out. But there are a lot of people out here tonight who are saying no, we can't criticise him personally nor be seen to be the party of "fail" - meaning the party who talks about the failure of Obama's policies.
And I disagree with that posture completely.

1109 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:03:26pm

re: #1101 ggt

Tell me something. "People" are trying to get involved in determining corporate CEO payroll/bonuses. "They make too much". Have these same "people" said anything about the salaries of pro-ball players or Hollywood execs? Does anyone know of a comparision of the salaries published anywhere in chart form? Say Oil Company execs vs. Hollywood Execs or Sports Execs?

Well, people complain all the time about the pro ball players' salaries. But honestly, I don't think people really care too much what these guys make--they're just irate at the thought of tax money paying it after the company crashed and took the economy with it.

1110 Dasher  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:03:58pm

re: #1105 Gus 802

Or UI.

Then there's the Department of Labor, OSHA, Justice (Employment Law), Treasury, EPA, unions, property taxes on equipment, utilities, Federal, State, and local.

Out sourcing to India does sound much better, doesn't it.

Bed time -- night all

1111 Zimriel  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:06:13pm

re: #1094 Roses

Fact is, any human being in America can be a Republican. Whenever a person registers to vote, THEY get to pick what they want to register as. Each has his or her own reasons for choosing a particular box....I would bet that what unites us is INDIVIDUALISM. That's why you be nice to 'em, Zim.

And if we aren't, we are killing ourselves, and any hope of protecting this country from the fascist nanny-staters that have succeeded in taking the Presidency.

Point taken, somewhat. It's late and my posting abilities are faltering a bit.

I had meant to refer to that subset of creationists which is lying about its aims, taking over school boards, or both. I see them as akin to the MSM tut-tutters who (IMO) distorted Limbaugh's words. "No mercy", to use a Rorschacht-ian phrase I dropped in another context.

How to bring over the honest creationists is a puzzle. How to bring over honest patriots (my patriotism is qualified, as I've admitted here) is also a puzzle. I suspect the answer is the same. But I'm not "one of them". So I can't speak their language too well.

My brain is not well wired to dealing with humans. Some things are just, objectively, false. Creationism (in the sense of biological development) is false. If voters believe in it, that's a problem with the voters. If the state follows the voters, that's a problem with the state, such that the state is due for an anti-democratic reaction. My solution to annoying humans, especially liars, or the allies of liars: try to pen them out of my space.

I still have an "autistic" streak, I know. I often end up taking Johnson-ism to a logical but absurd conclusion - like how al-Khallal invented a whole Sunni school of law out of Ibn Hanbal's offhand comments and Musnad. Sometimes I wonder if people think I'm typing a parody. I just think some things must logically follow from others.

Humans bother me.

1112 funky chicken  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:07:29pm

re: #1099 SanFranciscoZionist

Eh, give Palin a chance. Honestly. I'm not any kind of social conservative, but she is impressive in that she's a real crusader against the good old boy corruption that is rampant in our government. She reminds me a lot of Harry Truman, who was maligned by all the "smart" folks for decades because of his small town roots and non-elite educational achievements. He was a small town postmaster, for heaven's sakes....que snobbish apoplexy.

But Truman was a good man and a good president, and Palin could perform very well as VPOTUS.

1113 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:07:45pm

re: #1091 Gus 802

Exactly. And on top of all that, he was from California. California! What more proof do you need?
///

For the record, when he was POTUS I was a liberal-ish (not to be confused with leftist, there is a difference), somewhat apolitical teenager at the time, and was opposed to the GOP. I still let out a hearty "FUCK YEAH!" when he responded to Qaddafi the way he did.

1114 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:07:46pm

re: #1109 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, people complain all the time about the pro ball players' salaries. But honestly, I don't think people really care too much what these guys make--they're just irate at the thought of tax money paying it after the company crashed and took the economy with it.

Should have let the companys go belly-up.

1115 Boxy_brown  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:08:37pm

re: #979 avanti

Ok, time to leave this discussion, the dog pile is just a distraction from a very good thread. Night all.

I took a breather and am going to post this on the off chance you read it... I and a fair amount of other people are working on the next probable strategic challenge that the country is going to face over the Taiwan Strait. The idea always being that if we are prepared to face it than hopefully we wont have to. There are people working to give our Sailors and Marines every advantage in these challenges and lots of them are soon going to be put out of work to free up resources for expanding government into places it has no business being and seeking to create a class of citizens who are dependent on a specific political party being in control in order to to maintain their livelihood. These choices are going to cost American lives. (as well as freedoms)
Trading off your (supposed) affiliation with an institution that has pledged itself to defend the republic to legitimize those who are trying to to weaken it and manipulate it to achieve their agenda over that of the people gets right up my ass. That you so blithely endorse those who sneer at the same institution that you then use to shield yourself from criticism confirms the obvious: you haven't thought any of this through. You have been duped.

1116 realwest  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:09:39pm

re: #1096 Athos
I don't disagree with anything you've said my friend. But I will point out to you the the BIG 3 - ABC, CBS and NBC are the primary MSM sources of news for most Americans even today.
WE have to find an alternative source - we need to reach out to folks who get their news from the internet and from radio and PRAY that the big 3 begin to understand the word jourlanism once again.

1117 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:10:06pm

re: #1112 funky chicken

Eh, give Palin a chance. Honestly. I'm not any kind of social conservative, but she is impressive in that she's a real crusader against the good old boy corruption that is rampant in our government. She reminds me a lot of Harry Truman, who was maligned by all the "smart" folks for decades because of his small town roots and non-elite educational achievements. He was a small town postmaster, for heaven's sakes....que snobbish apoplexy.

But Truman was a good man and a good president, and Palin could perform very well as VPOTUS.

I hear the Truman comparison a lot, and perhaps I would see it if she were presented to me in a different way. My first exposure to her did not go well, impression-wise.

1118 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:10:16pm

I'm asleep at the keyboard --in some world that is probably a felony.

weet dreams all!

1119 Boxy_brown  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:11:25pm

re: #1072 funky chicken

But Reagan wasn't much of a social conservative himself.

Reagan would have been called a RINO by some of the same people who stayed at home last election and who now want to be in complete control of rebuilding the party.

1120 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:11:29pm

By hoping for Obama's failure you are also hoping for my failure. Please stop. It does not endear me to you. Yes I understand the nuance of the comment and don't hand me a bunch of crap about how you want to come in and save me from the ruins of what you wished for. It indicates that you are an opportunist hoping to capitalize on my own personal hardship to advance your own ideology. I hope Obama succeeds in turning the economy around as soon as possible.

Wish for your own failure if you want, just leave me out of your fantasies.

1121 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:12:28pm

re: #1114 ggt

Should have let the companys go belly-up.

I am really not going to claim that I know enough about economics to make a call there. My emotional reaction though, is 'hell yeah!'

1122 Gus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:13:02pm

re: #1113 Slumbering Behemoth

Exactly. And on top of all that, he was from California. California! What more proof do you need?
///

For the record, when he was POTUS I was a liberal-ish (not to be confused with leftist, there is a difference), somewhat apolitical teenager at the time, and was opposed to the GOP. I still let out a hearty "FUCK YEAH!" when he responded to Qaddafi the way he did.

I plead the 5th on what I was during his tenure. I will say I was always an independent and never felt comfortable with the crunchy left since they always seemed to put on a lot of airs. My interests at the time was the outdoors and when he responded to Qaddafi I don't think I had many thoughts about it at the time.

1123 Silvergirl  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:13:41pm

re: #1037 Zimriel

This answers #983 silvergirl, "Why are you reacting so strongly as if someone here actually asked you to do anything remotely like patting Obama on the back and wishing him well?"

I don't understand, Zimriel. The this you're talking about is

I think we are in uncharted territory in a lot of respects--the economy, racial matters, security issues. People are scared on many levels.

Are you saying the fear you feel on many levels makes you react by asking if you have to pat Obama's back and wish him well? Are you saying that this thread is making you think the people on this blog are advocating this?

1124 MrPaulRevere  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:14:11pm

re: #1111 Zimriel

I loved your comment #89 over at protein wisdom, right on.

1125 Salem  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:14:35pm

The most toxic thing about Palin was the treatment she got from the left, the media and some in her own party. That's how I saw it. I'm pretty vocal about reviling evangelical politicians and media personalities but she just seemed like a nice person and rugged frontierswoman to me. You want to talk about toxic, look at Frank, Pelosi, Schumer, Reed and the like. I'd take Palin over them any day.

1126 realwest  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:14:50pm

re: #1120 Killgore Trout
"don't hand me a bunch of crap about how you want to come in and save me from the ruins of what you wished for."
Um, what?

1127 funky chicken  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:16:06pm

re: #1119 Boxy_brown

Reagan would have been called a RINO by some of the same people who stayed at home last election and who now want to be in complete control of rebuilding the party.

Damn right. Case in point--Laura Ingraham last fall, nose firmly in the air ranting about how John McCain shouldn't go on Saturday Night Live because it wasn't dignified, and how the sainted Ronald Reagan would NEVER have done something like that.

Some commenter at hotair dug up all the youtube videos of Reagan laughing his ass off at the Dean Martin celebrity roasts.

I actually recommend those videos to folks who remember Reagan as he really was, or want to just see some funny jokes and some folks who were having a great time enjoying them.

1128 realwest  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:17:56pm

Well since it appears obvious that y'all aren't going to do the right thing and appoint me King, I'm going to sleep now.
Hope you all have a great day and that I get the chance to see you all down the road.

Good night, all.

1129 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:18:02pm

re: #1126 realwest

By hoping that Obama causes massive economic failure Republicans are hoping that it will sweep them back into power so the can "fix" everything and be the hero of the story.

1130 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:18:08pm

re: #1127 funky chicken

Damn right. Case in point--Laura Ingraham last fall, nose firmly in the air ranting about how John McCain shouldn't go on Saturday Night Live because it wasn't dignified, and how the sainted Ronald Reagan would NEVER have done something like that.

Some commenter at hotair dug up all the youtube videos of Reagan laughing his ass off at the Dean Martin celebrity roasts.

I actually recommend those videos to folks who remember Reagan as he really was, or want to just see some funny jokes and some folks who were having a great time enjoying them.

What does Laura Ingraham have against the McCains, anyway?

1131 Gus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:18:22pm

re: #1128 realwest

Well since it appears obvious that y'all aren't going to do the right thing and appoint me King, I'm going to sleep now.
Hope you all have a great day and that I get the chance to see you all down the road.

Good night, all.

See you later.

1132 Gus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:18:56pm

re: #1130 SanFranciscoZionist

What does Laura Ingraham have against the McCains, anyway?

Who's Laura Ingraham?

//

1133 Gus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:20:11pm

So I guess it's official. They want the party to be ruled by talk radio. Nothing's wrong and everything they say is right. Either shut up or move out of the way because America will love us once we start talking!

Yeah, right.

1134 Salem  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:20:30pm

re: #1120 Killgore Trout

By hoping for Obama's failure you are also hoping for my failure. Please stop. It does not endear me to you. Yes I understand the nuance of the comment and don't hand me a bunch of crap about how you want to come in and save me from the ruins of what you wished for. It indicates that you are an opportunist hoping to capitalize on my own personal hardship to advance your own ideology. I hope Obama succeeds in turning the economy around as soon as possible.

Wish for your own failure if you want, just leave me out of your fantasies.

"Me, me me!" With all due respect, if you think Obama intends to turn the economy around you can't be paying much attention to what he's actually proposing. That's your problem, before you go pointing fingers.

1135 funky chicken  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:23:22pm

re: #1130 SanFranciscoZionist

What does Laura Ingraham have against the McCains, anyway?

My opinion? She's just following Limbaugh's and Coulter's lead. Limbaugh and Coulter likely are friendly with former Senator Smith of NH and other pretty crazy right wing nuts. They hate McCain, and have since the late 1980s. Here's my guess as to why:

[Link: www.miafacts.org...]

it's a long read, and infuriating, and just a strong hunch on my part

1136 Boxy_brown  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:23:34pm

re: #1127 funky chicken

Damn right. Case in point--Laura Ingraham last fall, nose firmly in the air ranting about how John McCain shouldn't go on Saturday Night Live because it wasn't dignified, and how the sainted Ronald Reagan would NEVER have done something like that.

Some commenter at hotair dug up all the youtube videos of Reagan laughing his ass off at the Dean Martin celebrity roasts.


At least she wasn't calling members of his family fat. These people who want to separate "conservatism" from the GOP are going to kill both. Laura Ingraham is one of those who is perfectly willing to cut her nose off to spite her face.


I actually recommend those videos to folks who remember Reagan as he really was, or want to just see some funny jokes and some folks who were having a great time enjoying them.


Reagan was a wonderful communicator, and just think, No teleprompter.

Nite all.

1137 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:23:41pm

re: #1133 Gus 802

So I guess it's official. They want the party to be ruled by talk radio. Nothing's wrong and everything they say is right. Either shut up or move out of the way because America will love us once we start talking!

Yeah, right.

My father used to listen to Rush Limbaugh on the way to work. I was trapped in the car, because I worked for him summers all through high school. I've hated him ever since, and I don't like Rush too well either.

//

1138 Gus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:24:18pm

re: #1135 funky chicken

The guy that runs that site is a nutjob.

1139 funky chicken  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:24:18pm

g'night realwest

and g'night all of you guys. somebody's got to get those kids out to school in the morning!

1140 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:24:39pm

re: #1045 Athos

Wow- that graph is frightening. I'll be emailing that around.

1141 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:24:56pm

re: #1135 funky chicken

My opinion? She's just following Limbaugh's and Coulter's lead. Limbaugh and Coulter likely are friendly with former Senator Smith of NH and other pretty crazy right wing nuts. They hate McCain, and have since the late 1980s. Here's my guess as to why:

[Link: www.miafacts.org...]

it's a long read, and infuriating, and just a strong hunch on my part

I'll check it out. I was very pleased with Meghan McCain's response to her, though. Cheered me right up.

1142 Gus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:25:12pm

re: #1135 funky chicken

My opinion? She's just following Limbaugh's and Coulter's lead. Limbaugh and Coulter likely are friendly with former Senator Smith of NH and other pretty crazy right wing nuts. They hate McCain, and have since the late 1980s. Here's my guess as to why:

[Link: www.miafacts.org...]

it's a long read, and infuriating, and just a strong hunch on my part

Oops! Corrections! Not that site.

1143 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:25:12pm

re: #1101 ggt

It's Populist hypocrisy. You'll blow a brain fuse trying to make sense of it.

1144 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:26:52pm
1145 Gus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:27:52pm

re: #1135 funky chicken

My opinion? She's just following Limbaugh's and Coulter's lead. Limbaugh and Coulter likely are friendly with former Senator Smith of NH and other pretty crazy right wing nuts. They hate McCain, and have since the late 1980s. Here's my guess as to why:

[Link: www.miafacts.org...]

it's a long read, and infuriating, and just a strong hunch on my part

Yeah, that site points out some of the lunacy behind the McCain attacks. The main character having assaulted one of McCain's assistants.

1146 funky chicken  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:27:58pm

re: #1138 Gus 802

The guy that runs that site is a nutjob.

I strongly disagree. Sampley, Kiley, Herndon et al are the nutjobs. I'm a military spouse, and those bastards have been defrauding mourning military families for decades.

I'm happy folks like the Col who know the scoop about the POW/MIA issues are willing to speak up, even if it's only on the web.

Or perhaps he's a nut, but he's a nut on the side of truth.

1147 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:28:12pm

re: #1134 Salem

Republicans aren't going to win any votes by hoping to the misfortune of Americans.

1148 surly  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:28:20pm

re: #968 Charles

Rush couldn't have said it better about his "I want Obama to fail" comment. Those who know too well what comes of socialism will see nothing objectionable about that phrasing. Those who don't will see it as a mean-spirited attack on a guy who's doing whatever it takes to help people like them. The latter group can be won over to conservatism in two ways: by a "great explainer", like Reagan, or by bitter experience, as with the Eastern Europeans.

Americans will soon enough have their bitter experience, unless some great explainer can rally support, drive down Obama's popularity, force a turnaround in the midterms and curtail the leftist program. Such a person would not likely need to say things such as "I want my opponent to fail." He would make you see clearly why there was no way in the world that the leftist position could possibly succeed.

1149 Roses  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:28:56pm

re: #85 erevu

It's exactly the same kind of hope that most on the Left have had for the past eight years in regards to Bush. Now you answer me something. Why is this comment being focused on so much when coming from Rush, yet totally ignored when it came from many on the Left in the exact same fashion over the last eight years?

And that is EXACTLY it. Obama won because of the compounded effect of the left repeating and repeating and repeating their hatefilled messages for eight years.

Obama won because people still think of republicans as fat white Good Ole Boy Southern Politicians - and the image hasn't been fixed.

We are much more than that - we are young old, rich, poor, black white and every other color, we are artists and nurses, stock brokers and teachers, cat people, dog people, musicians, oil workers and active and ex-military.

Truth be told many traditional democrats hold more of our values than Democratic party values.

McCain, for all that you fault him, McCain and Palin, against insurmountable odds that should have given Obama a 90% win, STILL mananged to almost pull it off, and hold Obama at almost half, no mandate such as he has claimed.

The left is gifted at the easy, feel good and inspiring rhetoric. They use the most Orwellian of language, much of it very flowery in their mission statements and it hides their true ugly agenda.

We, on the other hand, have the better agenda but we do not have the uplifting words - as many have alluded to above - the job-interview example is a good one.

We need to turn the negatives into positive phrases that work for us. If that means we need the help of a linguist like Luntz - so be it. The Left has the Asshole Lakoff - and Obama used his "invest" terminology liberally in his latest presser. It is a lie, terminology designed to sell you something you do not want or need. Luntz, contrary to Lakoff, is about finding what is already good and saying it better.

Don't sell us short because we lost by a close margin. With the media against us 24/7, we still almost succeeded. Let's build on what is good, and stop feeling ashamed of ANY aspects of our party. Stop feeling bad about being Republicans, or conservatives, or Libertarians. Realize what we stand for is the best thing this planet has ever seen.

1150 Gus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:29:07pm

re: #1146 funky chicken

I strongly disagree. Sampley, Kiley, Herndon et al are the nutjobs. I'm a military spouse, and those bastards have been defrauding mourning military families for decades.

I'm happy folks like the Col who know the scoop about the POW/MIA issues are willing to speak up, even if it's only on the web.

Or perhaps he's a nut, but he's a nut on the side of truth.

Right. That's what I meant!

Mi culpa. I jumped the gun on the nutjob comment.

:)

1151 Gus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:29:33pm

re: #1146 funky chicken

I strongly disagree. Sampley, Kiley, Herndon et al are the nutjobs. I'm a military spouse, and those bastards have been defrauding mourning military families for decades.

I'm happy folks like the Col who know the scoop about the POW/MIA issues are willing to speak up, even if it's only on the web.

Or perhaps he's a nut, but he's a nut on the side of truth.

God I feel like such an idiot.

1152 funky chicken  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:29:34pm

Ah, OK

yeah, that wasn't any of the Kiley/Sampley sites, it's a rebuttal site for the "McCain is a Manchurian Candidate who is gonna sell us out to the NVA and wants live POWs to stay in Hanoi" nonsense

1153 Gus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:30:45pm

re: #1152 funky chicken

Ah, OK

yeah, that wasn't any of the Kiley/Sampley sites, it's a rebuttal site for the "McCain is a Manchurian Candidate who is gonna sell us out to the NVA and wants live POWs to stay in Hanoi" nonsense

Whew. I know. Talk about raising my blood pressure. Sampley is out of his mind. I was on a war path in other venues with his ilk.

1154 Athos  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:30:53pm

re: #1116 realwest

I don't disagree with anything you've said my friend. But I will point out to you the the BIG 3 - ABC, CBS and NBC are the primary MSM sources of news for most Americans even today.

I think its scarier than that - there are far too many people who think that 'The Colbert Report' and 'The Daily Show with Jon Stewart' are valid and important sources for news every bit as reliable as the Big 3 you cite.

Guess what, people who don't watch the news, incl the Comedy Channel 'news', or read papers, or read blogs, vote. They vote in big numbers based a lot on what others tell them and how they feel. We can influence that.

Even with almost all of the MSM and many efforts to leverage New Media against McCain, he lost by about 6 million votes out of 120 million cast. We can use New Media and a better positive message to make switch those votes. But we can't keep trying the same old things or resort to the tactics of the hard left and lose our moral position.

1155 Salem  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:31:34pm

Okay, Republicans in Congress should stow all the talk about wanting Obama to fail. Limbaugh and those other guys (and every other American citizen) can say whatever they want in my opinion. It's a free country.

Or maybe that should be: It's a free country?...

1156 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:32:27pm

re: #1106 rumcrook

this is frustrating becuase zero is all ready failing. thier is absolutely no reason to say you want it as a republican leader!

just let the man hoist himself by his own petard!

when the republicans make noise other than saying the straight forward truth which is they will opose obama trying to socialize and politicize the functioning of our economy they give him wiggle room to distract the sheeple.

the old saying is if someone is doing a fine job of screwing themselves dont get in the way.

I was think about this too. We should stand back and give him more rope while we articulate our ideals as conservatives.

1157 funky chicken  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:32:34pm

re: #1151 Gus 802

No worries. The web is full of the rantings of the bad guys, and damned little refutation. It's just...GRR

g'night :-)

1158 Gus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:33:05pm

re: #1157 funky chicken

No worries. The web is full of the rantings of the bad guys, and damned little refutation. It's just...GRR

g'night :-)

Hasta luego.

1159 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:33:53pm

re: #1112 funky chicken

Eh, give Palin a chance. Honestly. I'm not any kind of social conservative, but she is impressive in that she's a real crusader against the good old boy corruption that is rampant in our government. She reminds me a lot of Harry Truman, who was maligned by all the "smart" folks for decades because of his small town roots and non-elite educational achievements. He was a small town postmaster, for heaven's sakes....que snobbish apoplexy.

But Truman was a good man and a good president, and Palin could perform very well as VPOTUS.

It' not that I don't want to give her a chance, it's that I believe the culture isn't ready to handle a female in that role.

1160 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:36:16pm

re: #1125 Salem

The most toxic thing about Palin was the treatment she got from the left, the media and some in her own party. That's how I saw it. I'm pretty vocal about reviling evangelical politicians and media personalities but she just seemed like a nice person and rugged frontierswoman to me. You want to talk about toxic, look at Frank, Pelosi, Schumer, Reed and the like. I'd take Palin over them any day.

Yes- the culture isn't read for a woman in the WH.

1161 Gus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:37:26pm

re: #1160 Sharmuta

Yes- the culture isn't read for a woman in the WH.

Draft Rice! Remember that?

1162 Salem  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:39:48pm

re: #1147 Killgore Trout

Republicans aren't going to win any votes by hoping to the misfortune of Americans.

But that's the semantic loop. Personally, I'm not hoping for the economy to fail. I dread the prospect. I want America to succeed and Obama and his handlers to fail, if that's even conceivable.

I don't know, maybe I'll read a book about Socialism and see if it suits me. Find my place in it. Maybe I'll like it! Apparently it's inevitable, and I'm not just being facetious about that. Someday man will have a global government, or just be extinct. I wasn't in a big hurry to see either one, frankly.

1163 Silvergirl  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:43:25pm

re: #1108 realwest

Well,

is true enough as far as it goes. But it is our elected officials DUTY to point out to Obama and anyone else who'll listen, that some of his policies are going to fail in the mid to Long run and why. That's the obligation of elected Republicans. To be the "Loyal Opposition" as it were. But our voices whether critical or positive, are simply NOT being heard by the majority of American Voters. And unless and until that changes, the Loyal Oppostion has an obligation to the country to fend off, as best we can, those policies that we believe will fail. The MSM will not - at this point in time, allow a Rudy Guliani to talk positively about what Republicans offer as an alterantive to the Democrats policies. They just won't do so. So the only way "we" get airtime,so to speak, is to speak of the failures of Obama's policies.
And sometimes Obama's own personal failings - like RUSHING that Stimulus Bill through Congress because it was so IMMEDIATLEY NECESSARY and once it cleared Congress - with many Congressman admitting that they hadn't even READ the bill, Presidnet Obama takes THREE FULL DAYS before he signs the bill. Those Representatives and Senators could have use those three days to at least have their staffs' read the bill. That's a direct criticism of Obama, not his policies and it's still valid to point that out. But there are a lot of people out here tonight who are saying no, we can't criticise him personally nor be seen to be the party of "fail" - meaning the party who talks about the failure of Obama's policies.
And I disagree with that posture completely.

You make many good points, as usual. I think many folks here are in reality, in agreement. The sore point is how this whole "fail" thing was rolled out and how it's being played and replayed by the MSM. For instance, if Mitt Romney with his patience and tact had been the one to say (as he did on Larry King) that he wanted Obama's liberal policies to fail, it wouldn't have captured the attention of the liberal press. If Rush's "I hope he fails" had not been the megaphone to the idea that the country is in that proverbial handbasket with Obama carrying it, then we might have opened a conversation. Meaningful conversation comes to an abrupt end with a sound bite of "I hope he fails" and Rush Limbaugh and the conservative movement are lumped as wacky reactionaries. Sore losers. People to stay far away from. All of the above.

And BTW, I do believe we are in that handbasket with Obama carrying it down a very dangerous path, but effectively communicating our concerns is important business.

I'm going to look for and post Romney's Larry King interviews. I can't remember where you stand on Romney, but he says some worthwhile things on King's show.

1164 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:46:27pm

re: #1129 Killgore Trout

That, and I think there is a lot of "Takes a Carter to get a Reagan" fantasies going around with that philosophy. Seems stupid and childish to me.

I would like to see major industry return to America, but I won't cheer on a mentality that encourages/hopes for the pains of another Great Depression, another World War, and another Holocaust on the vague hope and foolishly infantile reasoning that that's how it worked out the last time around.

I want adults back in charge. Not stupid, childish, fantasy driven nihilists.

1165 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:46:39pm

re: #1161 Gus 802

Many people here get upset with me when I point this out. I like Sarah- she's my kind of lady. But my position on this has nothing to do with Sarah. It has everything to do with gender issues in this country. We've come a long way, but we're not quite there yet.

1166 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:48:49pm

re: #1144 fuseman

yo bicycle boy,

Yo stupid fatass, show some gawt-damned respect to the host that invites you onto his property. And try fucking reading. It's not that fucking hard.

1167 Gus  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:50:31pm

re: #1165 Sharmuta

Many people here get upset with me when I point this out. I like Sarah- she's my kind of lady. But my position on this has nothing to do with Sarah. It has everything to do with gender issues in this country. We've come a long way, but we're not quite there yet.

You're right. It was rather evident last year with regards to Hillary regardless of which camp one might be on. Meaning that she had to respond to sexism from within her own ranks from time to time. I am more than willing to pull the lever for a woman that meets most of my political criteria. It's not the person, but the ability to get the job done. That's why I mentioned Draft Rice because she was a potential candidate in my eyes.

1168 Silvergirl  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:53:39pm

I told realwest (he's gone to bed?) that I was going to post Larry King's Mitt Romney interview from earlier this month.

First One

Part Two

1169 stevieray  Wed, Mar 25, 2009 11:54:55pm

Just woke up from a nap on my couch... on my way to bed. I skimmed the comments; hope I'm not repeating previously made points, but here goes...

Its called "good cop, bad cop", and its been around forever 'cause it works.

Let the talk radio guys and a few congressmen bash Obama, they are the bad cops. Get the majority of elected Republicans to offer positive alternatives to Barack's agenda. The one-two punch is the most effective way to get your message across.

The Democrats know this, of course... as do their media watercarriers. They will try to pin the negative message to all Republicans.

The key to fighting that is not to crumble in an apologetic heap, but to forcefully smack them back. State that you will only answer for your own words, they other guys are free to make their points in their own way (free country, free speech), and point out that Republicans don't have a talking-point machine like JournoList to co-ordinate the words of Democrats and media members (smack!).

Never let Democrats or journalists sit in the judge's chair, they are unfit to pass judgment on anyone or anything. Don't play by their rules... their game is fixed.

1170 nadnerb  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:09:09am

Charles, you are right. This sentiment paints the GOP as a bunch of whiny, childish losers. Hoping that his policies fail is another thing, one I hope for. I hope he sees the light and realizes what it takes to hold a job in the private sector (designing cars and airplanes) and how his policies will slowly deteriorate entrepreneurship and free, open minded ideation.

The GOP should simply reiterate the principles of American Liberty and free enterprise, with Nat'l Defense as a backdrop. Speak of the freedom and accomplishment possible here.

1171 dsun  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:42:59am

the thing is not about whether he will fail or not, it's about how BAD he will fail, because we all know that there is a point of no return in the failed policies the obama's administration is trying to implement.

for example, once "universal health care" is in there is no going back and it's going to be such a black hole the USA will probably not recover from it, and i talk from experience, the "social security" in France is exactly the same idea, the end results is a blackhole that sucks more and more money every year with no end in sight.

i agree tho, the republican message is weak, "it's ok to want obama to fail", wtf is that... do not talk about wanting him to fail, talk about not letting him destroy the economy.

1172 Sgt.Slappy  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 1:15:23am

Way I see it, I'm one of those people who want B. Hussein O'nobody to fail at causing America to fail. I want his dirty and unashamedly anti-American associates, like Bill Ayers and Rev. Wright to fail at causing America to fail. I want his corrupt political cronies like Rahm Emmanuel, and... (well a bunch of his dirty democrat nominees have already failed... but I'm sure they'll find new and creative ways to fail yet.) - to fail. I want the clueless, flag-burning, useless little puke-pile Obama drone Code Pink and ANSWER protesters to fail at causing America to fail. I want corrupt political organizations like ACORN (which are so closely tied with precious Dear Leader) and their hordes of voting dead, to fail at causing America to fail. I want the jelly-kneed and spineless Republicans who should know better, to regain their Conservative principles and brass balls (women too), and halt their progress down the path to aiding the democrat plan to cause America to fail. I want America's enemies - the islamists, communists, socialists and other fanatical sociopaths to fail at causing America to fail - and all of them... ALL of them, to fail at destroying the greatest nation on earth, the last bastion of freedom from tyranny, and thereby fail at enslaving humanity in their flawed vision of an unachievable fairy-tale utopia.

Way I see it, I don't really see much difference at all between the goals of some people in our country, and the goals of our enemies, be that through deliberate malevolent intent or genuine stupidity. Yet these same countrymen can enjoy the blessings of Liberty while plotting to destroy it all. It makes me sick, it does. ...and sooner or later all this pressure, like opposing fault lines and colliding cold and warm air masses, its going to erupt - like an angry volcano and an earthquake, with tidal waves and hurricanes and tornadoes, all at once, with a terrible vengeance. It ain't gonna be pretty.

1173 lbrasfield  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 1:18:51am

I hope 0bama fails to accomplish most or all of his mission. If any part of his mission is to protect this country and promote its general welfare, I hope he succeeds in actually doing that. However, I cannot hope that he succeeds in any part of his mission simply because he says he intends to do good or because some imagine he intends to do good. The problem as I see it is that, like many proponents of "social justice", he imagines that he can bring about a better world via means that are bound to fail, as has been demonstrated often enough to convince earnest students of history. That imagining is not due merely to a flawed grasp of how systems of people can work. It is driven by a narcissistic need to generate never-ending pretexts for his own inflated self-regard. That need blocks, and will block, 0bama's ability to realize that he is ruining this country.

When the self-styled progressives convert "I want 0bama's effort to bend this country toward his own deluded vision of utopia to fail." into "I want 0bama's presidency to be a failure.", they are up to their old tricks, twisting words and lying rather than engaging in honest debate. The proper response is to call them on it, not concede that it is wrong to want 0bama efforts, the ones many perceive as malign, to fail.

If 0bama stays on his present course, he will fail in the sense usually meant by the term, referring to the success of a presidency as perceived by most of the populace. So I could restate my wish for his presidency as "I hope he fails to fail." I see that as an unrealistic hope, little more than wishful thinking.

A common assumption is that 0bama actually wishes to do good for his country. That is charitable given the evidence. If he were a foreign agent, intent on bring the U.S. down, he could hardly be more effective. I suspect that he sees destruction of the present order as a means to some glorious end that only a small minority in this country would agree with, were his ends openly stated. I see that as the most probable explanation for the enigma that is 0bama. Believing that, I hope he fails to destroy what traditional liberals and libertarians value.

1174 sevoguy  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 1:24:27am

I don't want America to fail. But if BHO's socialist agenda passes, our strength as a nation and world power will come to an end. The liberals did everything they could to destroy the Bush administration, over that 8 year period, that the country suffered to the point where we are at the beginning our death throe. Now the Demonocrats find themselves governing a very weak United States.

Anyone who doesn't realize what is going to happen to our economy by the year 2012 are in for a big surprise. I remember what Jimmy Carter did to this country after his 4 years. I don't believe anyone can bring us back like Reagan did. Anyone remember 23% inflation (the cruelest tax of all)? Or 21% interest rates? Thank you Jimmy.

America is failing.

1175 [deleted]  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 2:05:32am
1176 moriarity  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 2:09:34am

Democrats have continuously berated and demonized their opposition, openly and notoriously! Now they control everything. But if Conservatives or Independents do the same it's considered a losing strategy? Somehow I just don't get it!

1177 Sharmuta  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 2:23:25am

For me, it's not an issue of wanting him to fail. It's that historically, I know these policies will fail. I would rather see my party get out in front of the proposals and offer effective and positive alternatives. It is in a positive alternative that we can convince the electorate we are the better party for the halls of power.

If this is the marketplace of ideas, and we feel we're the better product how is heated rhetoric showing the American voters that our premise is true? If this is a marketplace, then our marketing needs improvement- badly. The consumers were dazzled by the packaging of our competition. We already know they will suffer buyer's remorse, but we hurt the prospect of convincing these consumers to switch products by preemptively rubbing their noses in their mistake and exasperate it by additionally sounding as though we wish them to suffer the equivalent of food poisoning.

I believe the competition's product will show itself it's inferiority with little help on our part. We need to focus on marketing our product's superiority, and an undignified media blitz is liable to instill zero confidence in our product. For the sake of our nation and our posterity, we simply must do better.

1178 Westward Ho  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 2:25:06am

re: #1144 fuseman


yo bicycle boy,
... if not, then i suggest you reduce your exercise sessions.

You are on deathrow dumbass.

1179 RadCap  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 2:27:57am

This is accepting a MAJOR collectivist premise - that the leader of the government IS the country. That is as FAR from an American proposition as one can get. That is a premise of dictatorships - ie Stalin IS Russia; Castro IS Cuba; Hitler IS Germany; Obama IS America. If you attack Dear Leader you are attacking the Motherland. You are not a patriot. You are a traitor. Off to the gulag with you!

That is not an idea to be blindly accepted. That is an idea to be fought as strenuously as possible.

Say it with me here - loud and clear - the President is NOT America. Hoping the President fails at something is NOT the same as hoping America fails.

If one meekly (or worse, righteously) accepts the disastrous notion that the President IS America, then one has already lost the intellectual war.

1180 Samurai  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 2:28:22am

Obama is not America. Saying that Obama's policies are bad for America and I hope he fails to get them passed or implemented to their full extentwill not be confused to mean I hope America as a nation fails. In fact, it's just the opposite, as Obama's failure to ruin our country means America wins.

Charles, you mentioned the Democrats' fervent desires and efforts for Bush to fail these past 8 years, but IMO there's a big difference. They went well beyond "Bush's policies failing" to hoping America loses the war on terror, and that there are a "million Mogadishus" in Iraq and Afghanistan in order to teach America a lesson. They hoped for massive numbers of deaths in the US soldiers fighting for our country, and the triumph of head-chopping, misogynist barbarians, whom they still march side-by-side with to this day.

Sorry Charles, but in this case, it is my honest belief that for America to succeed and prosper in the mid to long term, Obama's policies cannot be passed and implemented... he must fail, or at the very least we'll need to find a way to reverse things once we take office again, and you know how difficult it is to repeal government handouts and spending once it becomes entrenched.

I cannot and will not go along to get along, or hope for Obama successfully enacting programs I believe to be extremely detrimental to our nation.

1181 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 2:31:09am

re: #1176 moriarity

Nail them on the issues, point by point refutations of their policies, and cite positive alternatives as part of our platform. Don't use leftist style, childish bumper sticker slogans like "I hope you fail".

Is this really hard to understand?

1182 garden18  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 2:36:11am

The problem is what Jonah Goldberg calls "liberal fascism." The policies of Obama are a threat to individual freedom.

1183 yma o hyd  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 2:50:25am

re: #422 Charles

Let's see where this wonderful strategy gets the GOP, shall we? I have no hesitation at all in predicting that this is a major losing strategy.

Get ready for 8 years of Barack Obama, if this stupid negativity is all the GOP can bring to the table.

Late to this thread (blame the time zones!) - but unable to sit on my hands any longer!

Yes, Charles - you're right, this is a major losing strategy!

It is that because 'fail', in this context, is laden with emotion and is actually prospective. Its projected on what Obama will do, not on what has been done and can be shown, retrospectively, to have failed.

It is a losing strategy because it plays on emotions and feelings and offers no analysis, no alternatives, and is hopelessly un-pragmatic.

One can hide behind the meme 'the MFM are against us' only for a certain amount of time. People are not stupid - but if no pragmatic alternative is offered and hammered home, day in day out, at grassroot level, then its unfortunately quite easy to predict who actually will fail - and it won't be the Dems and PB0.

(Back to reading the thread now!)

1184 SixDegrees  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 2:55:59am

I've gotta agree whole heartedly with Charles on this one. The message "I want these policies to fail" is one baby-step away from the headline, "Republicans Want Failure."

Opposition is fine, and necessary. But it needs to take the form of, "We have a better idea, and here it is."

1185 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 2:56:56am

Ugh! I have had my head knocked around here and there by a variety of things, so I am certainly no intellectual giant, but I can't see why it is so hard for folks to see the intent of Charles' post.

Certainly, those of us opposed to the things Obama proposes to implement do not want to see these policies succeed. But how does it help our cause to spout "I hope you fail"? This is the bleating of a cry baby loser, and does absolutely nothing whatsoever to advance our ideals.

Refute the policies, cite alternatives, and present a positive platform. Spouting what amounts to "You suck, and I hope you step on your dick" is nothing more than immature, schoolyard bullshit.

I want to hear grown up alternatives, not sandbox kid's stuff.

1186 Sharmuta  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 3:09:40am

re: #1184 SixDegrees

I've gotta agree whole heartedly with Charles on this one. The message "I want these policies to fail" is one baby-step away from the headline, "Republicans Want Failure."

Opposition is fine, and necessary. But it needs to take the form of, "We have a better idea, and here it is."

Why this is so difficult to grasp is just beyond me.

1187 yma o hyd  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 3:17:46am

re: #830 Charles

Another one:

Heh.
If stupidity were to hurt physically, then some people (like that e-mail writer, for example!) would be mainlining painkillers!


Sorry ....
Back to reading ...

1188 soxfan4life  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 3:24:12am

re: #1182 garden18

The problem is what Jonah Goldberg calls "liberal fascism." The policies of Obama are a threat to individual freedom.

And that is what the GOP needs to be promoting. We are a nation built on individual freedom and liberty.Campaign on the Dems unbridled assault on freedom, not I want 0bama to fail. Maybe Steele does need to go.

1189 Sharmuta  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 3:39:07am

re: #1188 soxfan4life

Steele wasn't the one who started this.

1190 Cheese Eating Victory Monkey  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 4:14:12am

I hope he implements universal health care which integrates the private market (e.g. the Swiss/ German/ Taiwanese/ Japanese models). On the other hand, I don't really care much for all the Democratic pet projects, ACORN shenanigans, etc.

Here is an interesting PBS online video series about the various health models with the benefits and drawbacks and not hyped up propaganda. These are interviews with international stakeholders - doctors, administrators, government officials, and patients. My impression after watching is that the average US citizen is getting screwed in comparison with high costs and permanent risks of bankruptcy.

After watching I learned that the pharmaceutical companies abroad keep on innovating, there's still competition between sick funds for patients and budgets, and average people are happier, live longer, and won't accept anything else. Long waits are a myth in some of the systems as well as less choice of expert physicians (except in the UK).

1191 Sharmuta  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 4:20:59am

It's "odd" that there are a good number of people on this thread disagreeing with Charles, and yet they weren't banned for doing so.

So much for that talking point.

1192 Sacred Plants  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 4:26:57am

Maybe the failers want him to change to Gazprom, directly from office like another now former head of state?

1193 Emerald  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 4:48:07am

re: #1185 Slumbering Behemoth

Ugh! I have had my head knocked around here and there by a variety of things, so I am certainly no intellectual giant, but I can't see why it is so hard for folks to see the intent of Charles' post.


Hatred blinds.

1194 Daddy-O  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 5:03:22am

As Obama's vision for this country stands diametrically opposed to the vision of our Founders, and many of Obama's core beliefs stand in total opposition to my own, then, yes, in as far as it means Obama making law of what I believe to be a harmful agenda, I WANT HIM TO FAIL.

Why is that wrong? He is my president. I didn't vote for him, and I disagree with him on more areas than I agree. Those laws I think are good I want to succeed. Those that are harmful, and there are a great many, I want to fail.

It is simple thinking that ANY rational person should employ. Why would I want a person's harmful policies to succeed? One need not be a CREATIONIST governor to see that.

1195 Scorpius  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 5:04:19am

Yes the GOP needs to find a positive message. And while I agree that it isn't smart to make your platform about wishing the President will fail I disagree that it's somehow wrong to wish he does.

I oppose Barack. I gave him a chance from the beginning. But since his Inauguration he has done exactly what I had feared. So I hope his plans fail, but I'll leave it at that and work with my fellow Righties in coming up with a good alternative plan.

1196 Diamond Bullet  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 5:25:35am

re: #25 JammieWearingFool

The Democrats wanted us to lose a war. I want Obama's domestic policies to fail.

Huge difference.

Exactly. The Democrats just won an election based on "hope" and "change" that was really just a euphemism for hoping Bush failed at everything. I want Obama's policies to fail because I think their failure will be good for the country. I'm not going to just sit around clapping like a circus seal as the Democrats quadruple the deficit and then have the gall to argue that they are reducing deficits over time using their initial huge increase as the baseline to compare later deficits. Sweet jebus, we're talking about a guy who offends the British while constantly embarrasing both the country and himself personally by have repeated sweet nothings rejected by the Iranians. Of course I want him to fail. I just don't want him to take the rest of the country with him when he does. Besides, do you really trust the MSM to give Republicans a fair shake when Obama's policies blow up - WHICH THEY WILL - and there is footage of Republicans voting for them out of "bipartisianship" or "loyalty despite opposition"? Of course not. I want to be on record as opposing his lunacy now so that when America realizes what a snow job artist this guy is I'm nowhere near it.

1197 Lib Wingnut  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 5:34:47am

How about this:

No one wishes failure upon anyone else and we just vote him the fuck out when the time comes?

/good for me, good for America.

1198 cyclosarin  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 5:45:18am

GOP problem is it thinks 'small government' is a function of its tax footprint.

If you cut taxes you have to cut spending proportionately, not just cut taxes and then borrow the difference. Reagan made that mistake and both Bushes did too. Reagan and Bush I realised their mistake and put taxes back up again, but Bush decided it was politically better to just pile up the debt.

None of them cut spending. If you want to get re-elected you need to accept that tax cuts are not the answer to every economic problem.

There is nothing conservative about ten trillion in debt.

1199 Joel  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 5:52:49am

Obama's domestic and foreign policy agenda is so horrible I cannot want him to succeed in implementing them. He disses our friends - Britain, Israel, Poland - and sucks up to Iran and Gaza.

1200 A.W.  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 6:05:20am

I think it depends on what you mean when you say it. Like I read Rush as saying, "Obama wants to turn us into a 'socialist paradice' and i hope he fails." That's kosher.

But regardless, we should all hope he gets his sh-t together and starts doing smart, capitalist things for the economy, starts having truly smart diplomacy (not involving DVD's), makes iran back down on nukes or better yet topples them (or at least lets the isrealis do it for us, go Bibi!) and so on. And if you don't hope for an economic recovery, good relations, defanged or destroyed enemies, and so on, if you hope he fails this way, that is downright unpatriotic.

Of course the left's rage on this issue is unbelievably hypocritical. But being a hypocrite is holding two different views, and often one of those views are right, which is the case. I have no truck for fair weather patriots, including those who suddenly hope bad things for their country because the party they don't want in power is in power.

But let's also be understanding. I voted for McCain, and I feared that Obama wasn't ready, but if you asked me in november if he would be this bad, i would have thought that was hyperbole. I mean yesterday Geitner said something stupid and made the dollar plummet. He literally made all of us poorer. And Obama himself hasn't been much better. Scott Ott has mockingly said that if the government is given the power to sieze failing institutions, they should start with the treasury dept. I find it amazing that these people who can't seem to find their own hindquarters with two hands and a flashlight, think they can do a better job than even a failing company. That's the background, here.

1201 Joel  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 6:06:11am

A poster on Protein Wisdom made this excellent observation:

[Obama] wants to take my money and leave my children in debt and make them do mandatory voluntary service, and socialize the health care system, and weaken the military, and grow the size of government, and make it more intrusive, and take away our guns, and ghettoize religion, and force physicians and pharmacists to either do things they believe to be unethical or give up practicing as part of the socialization of medicine, and make injured military pay for their treatments, and make our children wards of the state, and destroy our economy with his cap and trade schemes, and lots of other pernicious shit, but I really wish him all success apart from all that stuff.

1202 A.W.  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 6:07:55am

Let me add that i am not defending thompson or Jindal. i don't know what they actually said, so i don't know where it falls in my argument. i am just talking principle.

And, i will add, that even though rush was right in principle, it was dubious as politics.

1203 A.W.  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 6:14:00am

Joel,

I think your commenter captured the problem i was talking about about 100 times better than I did.

1204 PISSED  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 6:14:05am

Excellent post Charles, thank you!

1205 Joel  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 6:21:53am

re: #1203 A.W.

Joel,

I think your commenter captured the problem i was talking about about 100 times better than I did.

Yeah I mean if Obama is trying to implement policies that are going to be disastrous, why should I wish him success?

1206 Drider  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 6:24:51am

I like Fred but he made a huge mistake and it is a typical mistake that the entire GOP is making and it isn't about saying that he wants the O's socialist(another no,no code word for the media) to fail and fail miserably.

He was flat out asked what he would do differently and it is pissing me off to no end that these GOP members don't spend the rest of the interview clicking off their ideas and how they are better more viable solutions to our problems.

Enough of this holding the cards close to your vest when coming up with solutions at this point in time, we need the GOP to rise to the occasion and shout out their valid, logical ideas on how to get through the unavoidable pain we, at this point cannot avoid and get back to what we are familiar with as the greatest capitalist country ever created.

Unfortunately, it seems like there is zero urgency on the GOP's behalf in communicating with the people and in fact I get the feeling that for most of them that it wouldn't bother them a bit if we lived in a Democracy, Republic, Socialist state or Communist state................as long as they have a job as a politician then all seems fine with them..............I'm done with that, with every 100 billion that goes by the wayside, there is no turning back and the GOP seems to be willing to follow quietly right along, what a surprise they will get when the guy who calls me for money sees "Independent" as my new party affiliation instead of "Republican".

1207 Malleus Dei  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 6:29:37am

The GOP is lost because it is back in the hands of the same people who ran it before Reagan. They do not understand conservatism. They do not believe in balanced budgets. They do not understand why tax cuts and low taxes are important. They do not understand the threat to this country from illegal immigration. They do not understand that their base opposes abortion and homosexuality on principle - most of them as a result of their religious beliefs which are not subject to change or compromise. They do not understand why it is important to fight socialism 24/7 and to attack it relentlessly wherever that evil raises its ugly head. They do not understand the first thing about how to be real Republicans.

Instead, with few exceptions, they all act and vote and compromise like moderate Democrats. And they roll over on EVERYTHING, when they should never concede a comma and should fight on every single point. They are mainly composed of politicians, place holders, and cowards, and not what they should be, which is courageous men of principle who fight the good fight against socialism and tyranny in the name of freedom and free markets.

I have given up on them. Until they remember how to act like real Republicans they will get no more of my money and none of my support. I have left the party, and I suggest that the rest of you do as well, because it is no longer the party of Reagan but is instead just another party of deficit spenders with no principles who do not stand up for America and freedom.

1208 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 6:38:37am

Is it too much to ask to actually have something to vote for?

The whole vote 'against' something wore me out last election...

1209 Malleus Dei  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 6:41:27am

"if Obama is trying to implement policies that are going to be disastrous, why should I wish him success?"

This is the key question. Zero's policies, if implemented, will ruin this country and turn it into a bankrupt banana republic. No one of conservative principles should wish his administration anything but abrupt and total policy failure, for this is just what it will take for the GOP to regain control of the House in 2010, and that is the only thing that may save the country.

And even that may be too late.

So fail, Zero, fail. Fail big. Fail on an epic scale. Make Jimmy Carter look competent. Screw up so badly with your socialist agenda that we see a GOP landslide in 2010.

Because otherwise this country is almost guaranteed to be so economically devastated by 2012 that it can never be fully repaired.

1210 essayons7  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 6:50:36am

I couldn't agree with this post more. I HATED all the nay-saying during GWB's term - it was one of the most grating tendencies of the left to constantly want his failure.

Now that the shoe is on the other foot, I'll be damned if I do the same thing the left did. I don't want ANY US President to fail. I DO want people to point out where he is wrong, and to try to discourage him to enact those policies that would harm our nation.

I didn't vote for him, I strongly dislike just about everything he stands for; however, he is still OUR PRESIDENT, and his failure is our failure. Until the GOP understands this, they will miss the point.

1211 TwinkietheKid  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 6:57:49am

re: #1209 Malleus Dei

"if Obama is trying to implement policies that are going to be disastrous, why should I wish him success?"

This is the key question. Zero's policies, if implemented, will ruin this country and turn it into a bankrupt banana republic. No one of conservative principles should wish his administration anything but abrupt and total policy failure, for this is just what it will take for the GOP to regain control of the House in 2010, and that is the only thing that may save the country.

And even that may be too late.

So fail, Zero, fail. Fail big. Fail on an epic scale. Make Jimmy Carter look competent. Screw up so badly with your socialist agenda that we see a GOP landslide in 2010.

Because otherwise this country is almost guaranteed to be so economically devastated by 2012 that it can never be fully repaired.

That sums it up for me.

1212 Powderfinger  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 7:01:21am

How about if we just say that America is an utter failure with Obama in charge? And that we want Him impeached? And maybe tried criminally. And instead of saying we hope He fails, we can just say that we HOPE we'll get the CHANGE we need... which consists of Him failing to accomplish anything He wants to accomplish.

You see who's running DC these days, right? Don't tell me words negativity doesn't matter! It got Baracky elected. And it put Harry and Nancy in charge of Congress.

1213 Powderfinger  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 7:04:09am

re: #1211 TwinkietheKid

I couldn't agree with this post more. I HATED all the nay-saying during GWB's term - it was one of the most grating tendencies of the left to constantly want his failure.

And yet they won it all. Which is what we seem to be afraid can never happen by acting like that. Counterintuitive, that.

1214 Jimmah  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 7:14:13am
The bizarre GOP talking point of the day is that there’s nothing wrong with wanting Barack Obama to fail.

This is so wrong-headed and self-defeating I don’t even know where to start.

Well said, Charles. It should be obvious to all but the most bitterly partisan that the country's success is more important than that of any political party.

Having a conviction that his policies will harm the USA is one thing, actively willing that this turns out to be so is not going to impress many outside of the Glenn Beck fan club.

1215 rumcrook  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 7:14:26am

re: #1194 Daddy-O

but the problem is the great majority of americans lack critical thinking skills.

dont bring up his failure or wish for it,

just oppose him.

1216 Sharmuta  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 7:14:38am

re: #1198 cyclosarin

GOP problem is it thinks 'small government' is a function of its tax footprint.

If you cut taxes you have to cut spending proportionately, not just cut taxes and then borrow the difference. Reagan made that mistake and both Bushes did too. Reagan and Bush I realised their mistake and put taxes back up again, but Bush decided it was politically better to just pile up the debt.

None of them cut spending. If you want to get re-elected you need to accept that tax cuts are not the answer to every economic problem.

There is nothing conservative about ten trillion in debt.

A million dings. Barry Goldwater is rolling in his grave.

1217 Yashmak  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 7:18:23am

Such a simple concept, yet so important. I'm glad to see we share this position Charles.

I recall the "Not MY President" bumperstickers during the Bush years, and remember thinking, well, yes he is, no matter if you voted for him or not.

Obama does, for better or worse, represents all of us. He's not the guy I voted for, but even so I don't want him to fail. Ideally, I'd love to see him enact policies that actually DO repair the economy, that actually DO enhance our relations with other nations around the world, and that actually DO improve things with our enemies. It would be better for all of us.

I don't see the current policies doing any of those things, but Obama's abject failure won't help anyone. It'll only hurt our nation. . .even if it does result in a Republican getting elected in the next term.

1218 Yashmak  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 7:23:06am

re: #1207 Malleus Dei

They do not understand that their base opposes abortion and homosexuality on principle - most of them as a result of their religious beliefs which are not subject to change or compromise.

I'm of the opposite opinion on that particular issue. I believe so-con issues actually worked AGAINST the Republicans, who insisted on bringing these things to the fore during the campaign. . .it alienated many of the moderates the Republicans needed to win the race.

1219 Gretchen  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 7:25:14am

The GOP shouldn't be issuing stupid statements like this. Obama's policies are destined to fail to bring our financial prosperity back. Obama could be successful in converting our country to socialism/communism. This will as always enrich the political class only. The GOP needs to articulate that it doesn't want to restructure our economy to match the former soviet union. There is enough negative energy around the political class to use this tactic.

The GOP needs to focus on the absurdity of Obama's claims. His plan is to spend billions on healthcare, "green energy" and education. Europe has socialized healthcare and is in dire straights too, cap and trade will be a huge regressive tax on the whole country, and education doesn't really create any new jobs. Sure a few teachers may be hired but it doesn't produce immediate benefits.

We all know, what ever Republicans say it will be used against them.

1220 Gretchen  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 7:28:14am

re: #1212 Powderfinger

How about if we just say that America is an utter failure with Obama in charge? And that we want Him impeached? And maybe tried criminally. And instead of saying we hope He fails, we can just say that we HOPE we'll get the CHANGE we need... which consists of Him failing to accomplish anything He wants to accomplish.

You see who's running DC these days, right? Don't tell me words negativity doesn't matter! It got Baracky elected. And it put Harry and Nancy in charge of Congress.

Impeachment is not possible and will be a political nightmare. The press will claim it's a racial lynching.

1221 senator  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 7:38:31am

Clinging to Clintoneque methods in defining "fail" ("it depends on how you define the word fail") is a ridiculous waste of time and an attempt to ingratiate oneself into left-wing political groupthink. It is absolutely OK to want a President's policies to fail. No one wants the Presidency to fail. And that is why a qualification to the statement is neither wrong nor misguided. It is necessary to clarify the point.

Charles, I'm disappointed to see that you have taken a quote that has been run out of context by the left into your thinking. When Rush first said it, in context, it raised no alarm bells. It wasn't until the MSM started saying, "Oh my word! Rush Limbaugh wants the President to FAIL!" that there became a need to clarify it. And I agree, constant clarification is counterproductive. However, that doesn't mean that saying you want someone to fail is bad policy.

Examples:

- A politician wants to legalize sex between minors and adults. Do you want him to succeed or fail in this effort? How about personally?

- A President wants to destroy the constitution by transferring legislative powers to the executive branch, thus removing the checks and balances our Founding Fathers wanted. Do you want him to succeed in this?

In a black and white question where success means harm, you want the person to fail. There is nothing un-American or "reactionary" in speaking your mind about such things.

Look, the reason we have a constitutional recourse for impeachment is because, sometimes, bad men ascend to the Presidency that should not succeed in whatever mischief they are purporting to espouse. We have an ability to STOP their progress. Surely in such cases, we want these men to fail in their misguided ambition.

Anyway, I applaud you for taking a stand (as you always do), but in this case, I couldn't disagree more.

1222 EasyLiving1  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 7:40:01am

Just wanted to thank everyone for responding to my comment.

Looks like Jindal is out for most everyone here, so you should all get to work nominating someone who can get elected and represent your views.

Good luck with that, as, unlike you folk here, I'd gladly vote for an atheist conservative over a religous liberal as well as a religous conservative over an atheist liberal.

It would be irrational for me to vote for an atheist liberal, regardless of my religous beliefs, because I am conservative.

I'm sorry you people don't understand the principle and feel the same way.

Disraeli talked of similar themes in his speech where he spoke of how "the programme of the Conservative party is to maintain the Constitution of the country."

1223 NukeAtomrod  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 7:54:15am

Hell. I don't even know what "Wanting Obama to fail" means. I think it was a mistake for ANYONE in the GOP to answer such a subjective question. The MSM dangled the bait until they got a bite from a Rush-fish. They've been reeling it in ever since.

For one, it's clear media bias. Who went around asking about wanting Bush to fail in the first month after the 2000 election? Nobody. The MSM has no interest in embarrassing liberals.

For another, the answer is obvious. If you voted against Obama, you obviously don't like his plans for the country and you don't want his plans be implemented. By that criteria, you do want him to fail. Duh. But that doesn't mean you want him to be a total incompetent that ruins the country and invites "man made disaster" by "non-motive specific actors of unspecified religious affiliation" attacks.

Ugh. My brain hurts.

1224 Sharmuta  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 8:04:07am

I don't know- maybe some of you don't live in blue areas. Maybe some of you haven't worked to convince a liberal they're not really a liberal. Maybe you've never felt the satisfaction of flipping someone. But I can tell you I'm always looking to flip someone, and it's rhetoric like this that works against me and people like me out talking to everyday Americans. I do what I can to bring people to our side on a one-to-one basis, and this "fail" talk is going to make it that much more difficult for me and folks like me to get through to people.

But you guys aren't thinking like that. I think we all pretty much agree the 0bama policies suck, and we don't want them implemented. They will devastate our economy. But instead of working this angle, we're taking it to the extreme in such a way that it will tune our message out to the very people we need to help us stop these policies!

I'm reminded of my friend MrPaulRevere, who told me one night not everything needed to be said. He's right. What my feelings on 0bama's success are don't really matter- I don't need to say it. What I do need to say is why his policies will hurt my friends and family and neighbors and get others to see my point of view so that they'll join us in stopping this rapid descent into socialism rather than hand the lefties and msm a brush with which to tar us all.

1225 Joel  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 8:08:40am

re: #1218 Yashmak

I'm of the opposite opinion on that particular issue. I believe so-con issues actually worked AGAINST the Republicans, who insisted on bringing these things to the fore during the campaign. . .it alienated many of the moderates the Republicans needed to win the race.

I agree with you. I think the GOP needs to back-off a bit on some of the social issues and concentrate on
1. low taxes
2. smaller government
3. tough on crime
4. Strong national defense
5. defense of our national sovereignty
6. a sane immigration policy

I for one do not want to criminalize abortion and put 16 year old girls in prison.

1226 Drider  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 8:20:53am

Please don't tell me we are comparing what is happening with the O's administration with the Carter administration, if we cannot see that what is happening now is permanent, non recoverable, 180% change in everything we grew up in as a Country, then all is lost.

I do remember with Carter that he has simply a weak liberal who got everything wrong but he sure didn't have the power to completely destroy the capitalist system of which we we're founded so there is no comparison at all.

The only thing we will leave our kids is their relief that they will not be the generation that dropped the ball and screwed the Country....We were.

1227 CanuckInMI  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 8:27:23am

Seems to me that the precedent here was set by Democrats during the Bush administration. James Carville Stated on 9/11 (before airplanes and broken buildings albeit) that he wanted George Bush to fail. Numerous times the Democrats salivated over the war in Iraq failing. Last notable time was Harry Reid stating that the war was lost. Over and over again they said these things.

I have to say, I can't disagree with you more. Would I like America to succeed? Of course I would and so would the GOP. If Zero makes that happen will I be happy? Sure. Do I think any of his policy planks will succeed? Only if you measure success as more government control, debt and a flailing economy.

So may I ask. Which of Barack Obama's policies would you like to succeed Charles?

1228 nikis-knight  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 8:30:33am

re: #1223 NukeAtomrod

I have seen a quote from, I think it was James Carville? maybe an elected Dem, that was, I think, on September 11 2001, to the effect of, yes, we want Bush to fail.
After they saw what happened, he turned to the reporters and said, "Of course this changes everything" or something similar, and though he was lying or quickly changed his mind they duly struck it from the record.
I think this was from the Corner 1-2 weeks ago.


Personally, I'm not sure which I fear more, Obama incompetence, which is manifestly great, or his success, which could be worse if he doesn't wise up.

1229 nikis-knight  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 8:30:53am

re: #1227 CanuckInMI

heh, GMTA

1230 funky chicken  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 8:43:38am

re: #1198 cyclosarin

GOP problem is it thinks 'small government' is a function of its tax footprint.

If you cut taxes you have to cut spending proportionately, not just cut taxes and then borrow the difference. Reagan made that mistake and both Bushes did too. Reagan and Bush I realised their mistake and put taxes back up again, but Bush decided it was politically better to just pile up the debt.

None of them cut spending. If you want to get re-elected you need to accept that tax cuts are not the answer to every economic problem.

There is nothing conservative about ten trillion in debt.

And one idiotic thing Limbaugh did during Bush 43 was to go on the radio and tell his audience that the Bush 43 deficits were no big deal. All the while he ran hideous attacks on John McCain every time the guy dared to offer even mild substantive criticisms of GWB.

1231 tatterdemalian  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 8:46:21am

The trials of the neocon... the worst thing about do-gooding, is that you always end up doing it by yourself.

1232 funky chicken  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 8:51:15am

re: #1188 soxfan4life

And that is what the GOP needs to be promoting. We are a nation built on individual freedom and liberty.Campaign on the Dems unbridled assault on freedom, not I want 0bama to fail. Maybe Steele does need to go.

Which means that screaming about abortion is out. Sorry, but you can't attract people from one kind of authoritarianism with just another flavor of authoritarianism, even if the second kind is "good for you." Here's a comment I saw at Politico that illustrates just one problem that the GOP's going to have to deal with:

I think you are wrong to say a black man can't lead the Republican party. His problem is he is not allowing Jesus Christ to lead him and he will not succeed unless he does, nor will anyone else. We want the killing of the unborn child to end! Nothing else matters until this is ended and God will not bless these attempts to guide the party without taking hold of His precepts. Thou shalt not kill etc you may have heard of them....

Posted By: Dawn %P% March 26, 2009 at 09:17 AM

Can you hear people running for the exits yet?

1233 nikis-knight  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 9:02:19am

re: #1232 funky chicken
If the republicans no longer care about protecting innocent human life, they will lose alot more than they gain.

1234 J.S.  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 9:03:13am

I find this close to Schandenfreude -- a hideous, ugly emotion -- it reminds me of Palestinians dancing in the streets upon hearing of the deaths on 9/11 or passing around candies after a suicide bombing. This desiring of failure (and/or the taking of delight in seeing others fail) should have no place in western politics.

1235 so.cal.swede  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 9:21:07am

This is almost like the neonazi/anti jihad alliance.

There are people who want obama to fail because they want him to fail, like the leftist wanted america to fail in order for bush to look stupid.

But then there are people who legitimately want obama's leftist social agenda to fail at redistributing wealth, or implement a socialist structure in the USA, without wanting the USA to fail.

I think it's a false dichodomy to say that "either you're with obama, or you're against him." This is not the war on terror (sorry i meant overseas contingency act Paragraph 4.334) where we have a pretty clear cut scenario of us and them. This is politics.

1236 nikis-knight  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 9:23:04am

re: #1234 J.S.

Oh please. Hoping Obama doesn't manage to turn us into a European style welfare state, fails to do so in other words, than hoping he has some personal calamity. Not every goal is laudable, and not every politician working towards the good, regardless of what they tell themselves.

As I said, this is poor tact to say, because our electorate is so ill-informed or lacking in foresight, but it is not in anyway wrong to realize it.

To compare the above sentiment to Muslims rejoicing in the deaths of innocents is either mindbogglingly obtuse or demagogic.

1237 nikis-knight  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 9:24:20am

re: #1236 nikis-knight(should read, "...is different than hoping he has some personal calamity..."

1238 cgrow  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 9:39:31am

Completely agree. Why would anyone want him to fail? As much as I disagree with Obama, I desperately hope, for the sake of my now unemployed girlfriend, my father's crushed business, and my many friends now out of work that his policies do pull us out of this slump. Unfortunately, I fear they will not.

1239 FabioC.  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 9:58:24am

I think too many are missing what is the real matter: control of the narrative.

The now-infamous quote by Rush Limbaugh was part of a longer segment in which he stated clearly that the he was hoping for the failure of Obama's socialist policies.

Fred Thompson was even more careful to specify that.

So, stating that these people "want Obama to fail" is not only wrong, but it conforms to the narrative proposed by the Left - that the right-wingers want Obama to fail and America with him only to prove a point.

No, this is not going to win the battle of ideas.

1240 The False God  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 10:10:09am

I guess I'm alone in wanting both parties and their members to fail. If the Republicans and the Democrats both capsize, then maybe we can get people to actually think about who they're voting for, instead of voting by ticket.

1241 Samurai  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 10:17:50am

There seems to be a disconnect here... can we all agree we want most of Obama's policies to utterly fail because they are harmful to America, even if we might find a better way to package/phrase it, and that we need to have a better solution to offer as well, not just mindless criticism with no other options to suggest?

So yes, we want Obama to fail in his policies.

And yes, that may not be the best way to phrase it, and definitely shouldn't be the only way we phrase it.

1242 trulyyours  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 10:31:48am

re: #1221 senator

Charles, I'm disappointed to see that you have taken a quote that has been run out of context by the left into your thinking. When Rush first said it, in context, it raised no alarm bells.

I agree with this comment. The libs wanted GWB to fail - period - so they could grasp power. We want socialist/fascist programs to fail - period. If BHO is the purveyor of those ideas, yes, we want him to fail. Our system of government is designed, through checks and balances, to cause failure of an out of line branch.

1243 dicentra  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 10:35:32am

re: #1234 J.S.

I find this close to Schandenfreude -- a hideous, ugly emotion -- it reminds me of Palestinians dancing in the streets upon hearing of the deaths on 9/11 or passing around candies after a suicide bombing. This desiring of failure (and/or the taking of delight in seeing others fail) should have no place in western politics.

If people were saying "I hope he FAILS" because they have a personal animus towards Obama--just as the LLL wanted OIF to fail because of BDS--then you would be right.

But that's not what they're saying. That's not what they intend, and it's not what I intend. I don't do Schandenfreude. If I found a magic lamp tomorrow, I'd ask the genii to spirit Obama and his family away to a pleasant little tropical island of their very own where they could live happily ever after with the swingset and the teleprompter. I just want him far, far away from the levers of power.

I don't wish any personal harm to Obama. Not in the least. Nor do I wish him to FAIL because it would hurt him. I hope he FAILS because his success (as he sees it) spells the end of the country I love.

That's the alpha and omega of it, and if you read anything else into it, I'll reach through the screen and pummel you.

1244 Charles Johnson  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 10:59:45am

re: #1242 trulyyours

Charles, I'm disappointed to see that you have taken a quote that has been run out of context by the left into your thinking. When Rush first said it, in context, it raised no alarm bells.

I agree with this comment. The libs wanted GWB to fail - period - so they could grasp power. We want socialist/fascist programs to fail - period. If BHO is the purveyor of those ideas, yes, we want him to fail. Our system of government is designed, through checks and balances, to cause failure of an out of line branch.

I could not possibly care less what the left says about this quote, and what Media Matters thinks is of absolutely no consequence to me.

When I see the leaders of the GOP defending it, I have to speak out because this is a losing strategy.

1245 Powderfinger  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:30:21am

re: #1244 Charles

When I see the leaders of the GOP defending it, I have to speak out because this is a losing strategy.

How did the White House and both houses of Congress wind up in the hands of the left? What factor drove HopenChange more than BDS did?

1246 Charles Johnson  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:33:02am

re: #1243 dicentra

If people were saying "I hope he FAILS" because they have a personal animus towards Obama--just as the LLL wanted OIF to fail because of BDS--then you would be right.

But that's not what they're saying.

I wouldn't be so sure about that.

1247 Moose4  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:44:30am

re: #11 DrNaughty

I agree. I want Obama and Pelosi and Reid and Geithner and Soros and all their ilk to fail. I want them to epic fail. I want them to step on their collective ding-dongs so hard they trip and splat on their face. Because if they succeed in what they want to do, they will have enacted policies that will, in the end, cause tremendous damage to the United States.

To me, the best way for the United States of America to succeed is if Obama and the liberal/socialist Democrats that he represents fail. It's that simple.

1248 Yashmak  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:18:34pm

re: #1247 Moose4

I agree. I want Obama and Pelosi and Reid and Geithner and Soros and all their ilk to fail. I want them to epic fail. I want them to step on their collective ding-dongs so hard they trip and splat on their face. Because if they succeed in what they want to do, they will have enacted policies that will, in the end, cause tremendous damage to the United States.

We can all see what their policies will likely do. That's why we criticize those policies non-stop. However, that criticism is entirely different than hoping that they fail at their jobs representing their constituents in general. That's a terrible thing to wish not just upon them, but upon said constituents.

1249 Roses  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:43:26pm

OK - I'd like to see some examples of how to "frame" our positions in a positive inspiring light. The left has mastered it and every single "group" they have gets assistance in saying it just so. (I have some examples, and you probably do, too, pick any "Citizens for blahblahblah" mission statement, look at change.gov, ACORN, etc....

Let's figure out the right words to use - for example - we say "We've got to get back to x-y-z values"

How do you say that right? "It's time to reassert our core values." Is "reassert" better than "get back?" What's a better word. We play defense instead of offense.

Any ideas? Charles, can you make a thread of this?

1250 CharlieBravo  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:48:07pm

re: #5 Occasional Reader

Look... I want Obama to succeed in restoring economic growth. I do not want him to succeed at socializing the economic system. Simple.

Well said. I think that is what most mean.

1251 J.S.  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:55:53pm

I don't think it's possible to separate the dancer from the dance in this instance. Suppose you're at some competition, and your opponent stumbles and falls, do you cheer? (It's grotesque if you do, and it will be a failing strategy should the GOP be stupid enough to go along with this. Focus on the positive...concentrate on this...not wishing/hoping for ill to come about...)

1252 Roses  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 1:10:38pm

re: #1210 essayons7

1253 Roses  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 1:14:43pm

re: #1210 essayons7

I couldn't agree with this post more. I HATED all the nay-saying during GWB's term - it was one of the most grating tendencies of the left to constantly want his failure.
Now that the shoe is on the other foot, I'll be damned if I do the same thing the left did. I don't want ANY US President to fail. I DO want people to point out where he is wrong, and to try to discourage him to enact those policies that would harm our nation.
I didn't vote for him, I strongly dislike just about everything he stands for; however, he is still OUR PRESIDENT, and his failure is our failure. Until the GOP understands this, they will miss the point.

The difference is that the Left claimed Bush did things, and was going to do things that he never did, never attempted to do.

He did not move to make abortion illegal. He did not outlaw stem-cell research. He did not press to become dictator for life. he did not institute a draft. Example after example, if we only look back at magazine articles, or HuffPo/KOS posts from a year or two ago.

He (Bush) did, in fact, allow the normal government procedure to work, Congress passed bills, and he either vetoed or signed them.

Obama has rocked the bedrock of our nation - in more ways than one. All of the people who played by the rules are now in peril BECAUSE of his policies. People can no longer trust that their 401Ks are safe - there has been talk of the govt. taking over 401Ks, they cannot trust their contracts, they cannot trust that they will get to keep their own money, decide how to heat their own houses... look at the cover of Barron's with the article on top CEOs - that cover is almost shocking in light of what happened last week with the Obama sanctioned ACORN rich-hunt tour buses.

Think about Architectural Digest. How can a magazine like that survive in a hate-the-rich and tour their fancy neighborhoods in order to express that hate? What happens to Gourmet? Bon Appetit?

If we go along with Obama's EXPRESSED vision, and allow the bills and moves in that direction to succeed, it's not just the big things that change, maybe you can say they don't matter, but think of all the small ways it really will affect your life, right down to the magazines you read.

Is that really what you want?

One thing may save us. His overreaching may stop him. This is after all the Baby-boomers, the me-generation and the yuppies - we may have some sort of guilt complex that makes us want to don his hairshirts (just like we want to be guilty of global warming) - but if you look at the "Pledge" campaign, you will see, we really aren't into giving up the things we like, we just want to pay lip service, like the guy who pledged he'd only flush the toilet after a deuce.

Still, I maintain that what the left projected about Bush, they are all too willing to DO themselves - pass trillions in spending, take your money, take your house, reinstate the draft, tell you what to eat, how to heat your home, how much you can make (while they themselves live in mansions)....

No. I. Do. Not. Want. Him. To. Succeed. Not at his agenda. I like Architectural Digest. I don't want to give it up. I don't want to see it fail. And it shouldn't have to because some activist Junior senator managed to get himself elected and wants to exert his power over others.

End. Rant.

BUT - Maybe the real question is - does Obama want US to succeed. I'm not so sure he does.

1254 S'latch  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 2:37:40pm

It seems like semantics to me, but we can differ about what constitutes the meaning of such an expression. In the statement "I want Obama to fail" the word "fail" may refer to the act itself, which is its literal meaning or denotation, but it may also may refer to many other figurative associations, such as how it affects a general outcome, etc., which may be its connotation. Traditionally, the formal semantic view would restrict it to its literal meaning, and relegate all figurative associations to pragmatics, but many, myself included, find this distinction difficult to defend. The degree to which one subscribes to the literal-figurative distinction decreases as one moves from the formal semantic, semiotic, pragmatic, to the cognitive semantic traditions. In the Chomskian analysis, there is no mechanism for the interpretation of semantic relations. The nativist view considers all semantic notions as inborn. Thus, even novel concepts are proposed to have been dormant in some sense. This traditional view would also be unable to address many issues such as metaphor or associative meanings, and semantic change, where meanings within a linguistic community change over time, and qualia or subjective experience. Another issue not addressed by the nativist model is how perceptual cues are combined in thought, e.g. in mental rotation.

Basically, we are all doomed.

1255 nikis-knight  Thu, Mar 26, 2009 3:51:33pm

re: #1251 J.S.

Obama is not a dancer. He is not trying to wobble on his tip-toes. He is trying to bring about European socialism if he runs the economy into the ground to do so.
Look, every domestic bill that Obama succeeds in passing will probably be terrible for the country. If his budget fails to get votes, due to some strange confluence of democratic wisdom and republican spines, if he fails spectacularly in getting any legislation passed, I will indeed cheer.
I think the country would be much better off in 4 years if Obama never went into the office. If he gets what we want, America "fails". If I wanted him to succeed in what he wanted to do, I'd have voted for him--or not at all, if I didn't think it mattered.
Pretending that there is something wrong about that is just stupid. Off-putting? Perhaps, because Obama is popular. But that popularity is what is foolish, not the hope that his agenda comes to naught.

1256 brandon13  Fri, Mar 27, 2009 2:51:20am

I know I'm late on this, but people are misconstruing was Charles said in his post.

The phrase, "I hope he fails" is going to alienate people who are possible GOP voters in 2010 and 2012. What good come from the GOP saying this when Obama has a 60% approval rating? Right there you've alienated 60% of the American people. Of the remaining percentage, it is reasonable to assume that some portion will also feel alienated. It is not difficult to understand why this strategy is political suicide.

What is the long term upside to this talking point? How does using this strategy at this particular time help garner support for the GOP? Articulate why the President and his administration are wrong and do without the negativity. The swing voters don't want to hear that shit.

1257 ixman  Fri, Mar 27, 2009 7:30:17am

OK, I've been working stupid hours for the past year or so, so I'm Johnny-come-lately to politics again, but I've got a ham-fisted analogy:

What if he said that the US would be best served by starting a war with China and Russia, and that while it would be (quite) painful initially, we'd be much better off in the long run? And he thoroughly believed it?

Wouldn't we want him to fail in his endeavor?

I don't know. Maybe I'm looking at the use of the word fail in the wrong light.


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