Greenland Ice Melting Faster Than Ever

Environment • Views: 2,854

Germany’s Spiegel Online reports on new research on the Greenland ice sheet (cross-checked with two different methods that yielded the same result), showing that the ice is disappearing much faster than previously believed.

The dimensions of this frosty giant go way beyond human imagination. With a surface area spanning some 1.7 million square kilometers (656,000 square miles), a view of Greenland’s ice above the Sermeq-Kujalleq glacier near Ilulisat makes it seem endless. The idea that this sheet of ice, which is up to three kilometers thick in parts, is melting seems absurd in the extreme.

But the large number of gigantic icebergs — and the valley into which they are slowly sliding — tell a different story. Here, as elsewhere in Greenland, a gigantic upheaval is underway. In recent years, the glacier has receded by around 15 kilometers; the ongoing meltdown appears unstoppable. Just how quickly Greenland’s ice is melting remains a matter of some debate, but the melting ice is contributing to rising ocean levels — with potentially dramatic consequences for millions across the globe.

Were Greenland to lose all of its ice, sea levels would rise some seven meters higher than today’s levels. Such a scenario will not become reality overnight — indeed the process could last hundreds of years. But new results from a team of Dutch researchers suggest that conservative estimates as to the speed with which the ice is melting should be shelved. According to the study, the rate at which Greenland’s ice is melting has accelerated substantially in recent years.

There are, strictly speaking, two parallel processes responsible for the ice’s retreat. On the one hand, rising temperatures melt the ice on land while warmer ocean currents eat away at the glaciers that jut out into the ocean. A research team led by Michiel van den Broeke from the University of Utrecht reported in the most recent edition of the journal Science that the two processes are contributing equally to the disappearance of the ice sheet.

According to the new report, Greenland lost an estimated 1,500 gigatons (one gigaton is equal to 1 billion tons) of ice from the year 2000 to 2008. “That is at the upper end of recent estimates of Greenland mass loss using various other methods,” van den Broeke told SPIEGEL ONLINE. Between 2006 and 2008, the loss in weight totaled 273 gigatons per year, he said.

The scientists are convinced their results are accurate because they arrived at their numbers using two fundamentally different methods — both of which returned the same conclusion. On the one hand, they monitored the movement of the ice which they fed into a regional computer model. For a second data source, they used the Grace observation satellites, which measure the Earth’s gravitational field.

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407 comments
1 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:10:05pm

I have a LOT to learn about global warming/climate change.

2 albusteve  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:10:18pm

According to the study, the rate at which Greenland’s ice is melting has accelerated substantially in recent years.

how fast, compared to what?

3 Kragar  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:10:46pm

So the question is, do we jump thru artificial hoops and play shell games with our economy over bullshit carbon credits and emmissions or do we start building the infrastructure required to provide fresh water, irrigation and power?

4 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:10:46pm
Were Greenland to lose all of its ice, sea levels would rise some seven meters higher than today’s levels.

That's almost 23 feet, folks.

5 albusteve  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:11:31pm

two words...
nuclear energy


where is it?

6 Kragar  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:12:08pm

re: #5 albusteve

two words...
nuclear energy


where is it?

France

7 albusteve  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:13:03pm

re: #4 Sharmuta

That's almost 23 feet, folks.

seems unlikely to me...maybe a few feet...how can they calculate this number?

8 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:13:21pm

re: #5 albusteve

two words...
nuclear energy


where is it?


you took the words right out of my mouth. if nuclear energy does not emit greenhouse gases, why are the environmentalists against it? would nuclear power not help to eliminate a lot of what is supposedly causing this greenhouse effect?

9 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:14:13pm

re: #1 _RememberTonyC

I have a LOT to learn about global warming/climate change.

I would start here at the the American Institute of Physics:

The Discovery of Global Warming

Start with the introduction essay, and from there you can see there are a number of other pieces to read from the Sun to ocean currents. I'm still working my way through these articles, but it has been invaluable to me in better understanding the science involved.

[Thanks to freetoken and LVQ for turing me on to this great resource.]

10 Cato the Elder  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:14:55pm

Meanwhile, in København, they're getting ready for a big, pointless meeting.

11 albusteve  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:15:44pm

re: #8 _RememberTonyC

you took the words right out of my mouth. if nuclear energy does not emit greenhouse gases, why are the environmentalists against it? would nuclear power not help to eliminate a lot of what is supposedly causing this greenhouse effect?

BO has closed Yucca Mt., now what...effectively tossing the disposal problem back to the enviro courts for ever...a small few people stonewalling the entire situation

12 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:16:03pm

re: #7 albusteve

seems unlikely to me...maybe a few feet...how can they calculate this number?

It's called science and math. You have 1.7 million square kilometers of ice. They can calculate how much water that is and how much the sea level will rise based on the added water.

13 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:16:34pm

HAve we seen signs of the sea level rising?

I mean, are people reporting in? Because I have to imagine many islands in the Pacific will go away with just a foot or two rise.

14 albusteve  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:17:06pm

re: #8 _RememberTonyC

you took the words right out of my mouth. if nuclear energy does not emit greenhouse gases, why are the environmentalists against it? would nuclear power not help to eliminate a lot of what is supposedly causing this greenhouse effect?

there is money to be made resisting nuclear power...it's less ideological than financial these days...we are simply fucked

15 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:17:18pm

re: #5 albusteve

two words...
nuclear energy

where is it?

It go boom.

16 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:17:41pm

re: #8 _RememberTonyC

you took the words right out of my mouth. if nuclear energy does not emit greenhouse gases, why are the environmentalists against it? would nuclear power not help to eliminate a lot of what is supposedly causing this greenhouse effect?

I heard recently (also a few decades ago, IIRC) that nuclear power is bad because you have to have a police state to guard the plants and the waste.

17 albusteve  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:19:44pm

re: #12 Sharmuta

It's called science and math. You have 1.7 million square kilometers of ice. They can calculate how much water that is and how much the sea level will rise based on the added water.

I call bullshit...23ft world wide from that chunk of ice?...1.7 million sq kilos of ice on Greenland?...huh?...I need an illustration

18 recusancy  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:20:46pm

re: #11 albusteve

BO has closed Yucca Mt., now what...effectively tossing the disposal problem back to the enviro courts for ever...a small few people stonewalling the entire situation

So you're open to storing the spent fuel in your backyard?

19 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:21:42pm

re: #9 Sharmuta

I would start here at the the American Institute of Physics:

The Discovery of Global Warming

Start with the introduction essay, and from there you can see there are a number of other pieces to read from the Sun to ocean currents. I'm still working my way through these articles, but it has been invaluable to me in better understanding the science involved.

[Thanks to freetoken and LVQ for turing me on to this great resource.]

thanks Sharm

20 tradewind  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:21:43pm

re: #17 albusteve
Dammit, if I wait much longer I guess I won't be able to order that pure-as-crystal Arctic ice for the cocktail parties this season.///

21 Kragar  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:22:01pm

re: #18 recusancy

So you're open to storing the spent fuel in your backyard?

I'll rent them some land with a nice contract and liablities written in.

22 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:22:50pm

re: #16 wrenchwench

I heard recently (also a few decades ago, IIRC) that nuclear power is bad because you have to have a police state to guard the plants and the waste.

Yep, France, who get almost 70 percent of it's electricity from nuclear power plants is a regular gulag. Can't even walk 50 meters in Paris with out stepping on the toes of a gendarme. They've turned all the cafe's into gendarmeries.
//

23 Diamond Bullet  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:23:13pm

"Because if we are willing to work for it, and fight for it, and believe in it, then I am absolutely certain that generations from now, we will be able to look back and tell our children that this was the moment when we began to provide care for the sick and good jobs to the jobless; this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal; this was the moment when we ended a war and secured our nation and restored our image as the last, best hope on earth." -- El Presidente Magnifico

24 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:23:25pm

re: #16 wrenchwench

I heard recently (also a few decades ago, IIRC) that nuclear power is bad because you have to have a police state to guard the plants and the waste.

what does France do? Most of their electricity comes from nuclear power.

25 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:23:50pm

re: #18 recusancy

So you're open to storing the spent fuel in your backyard?

France handles it fine. They get almost 70 percent of their electricity from nuclear.

Next question?

26 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:24:07pm

re: #18 recusancy

So you're open to storing the spent fuel in your backyard?

He kinda is. Ever hear of WIPP?

27 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:24:30pm
There are, strictly speaking, two parallel processes responsible for the ice’s retreat. On the one hand, rising temperatures melt the ice on land while warmer ocean currents eat away at the glaciers that jut out into the ocean.

There are increasing signs that the ocean temps are indeed rising.

One is the actual data.

The other is the jellyfish.

28 J.S.  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:24:31pm

We've got record high temperatures right now in Edmonton...complete with dandelions going to seed! piture here...(btw, there was another odd weather event here -- back in sept/oct -- the frost and snow arrived exceptionally early, killed off everything, including my tomatoes. Anyway, the weird thing was this -- the deciduous trees had green leaves, yet there was a blanket of snow on the ground! The University of Alberta's agricultural department received reams of phone calls asking what was going on? The deciduous trees had not changed color -- leaves were all green -- yet snow had fallen (in some areas, it was very, very bizarre to see this -- you'd see an alder tree, snow on the ground, and around the tree a ring of fallen leaves -- and the leaves were all green...the green leaves apparently knocked off the trees by the snow fall...(very odd...no pictures of that, though...) Oh, the people at the Univ of Alberta said a similar phenomenon had not occurred for at least the last 40 odd years...very freakish...

29 albusteve  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:24:42pm

re: #18 recusancy

So you're open to storing the spent fuel in your backyard?

Yucca Mt is not anybodys back yard...if you believe in science then you'd have to believe that the 25 billion already invested is not a waste...why is it unsafe, when all experts claim it is?...you have an alternative?, or are you simply opposed to nuclear energy on unfounded principle?

30 tradewind  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:25:38pm

re: #28 J.S.
Please send any excess BTU's down here. Coldest summer and fall evah, it really screwed the tomatoes.

31 DaddyG  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:26:44pm

Time to start investing in beachfront property in Macon Georgia!

32 recusancy  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:26:54pm

re: #25 Walter L. Newton

France handles it fine. They get almost 70 percent of their electricity from nuclear.

Next question?

I'm not against it... It's just a problem politically. Nobody wants it in their backyard.

33 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:27:15pm

re: #19 _RememberTonyC

It's my pleasure, Tony. There are a number of us that are aware we don't know a lot about the issue. I'm not afraid to admit I need to learn more on the subject, and that site has been a great help to me. Freetoken and LVQ were there to point it out to me and others, and as my way of showing appreciate to them, I'm more than glad to pass it along.

34 Velvet Elvis  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:27:24pm

re: #24 _RememberTonyC

what does France do? Most of their electricity comes from nuclear power.

They reprocess their waste, like we should do but don't because the nuclear fuel industry is big bucks and a big lobby.

35 J.S.  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:29:27pm

re: #30 tradewind

I believe this latest "event" is a consequence of the "Pineapple Express" which hit a couple of days ago (in the Vancouver area and was to have left 200 mm of rain)...(So we have Hawaii to thank for this development, I guess...)

36 albusteve  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:29:28pm

re: #32 recusancy

I'm not against it... It's just a problem politically. Nobody wants it in their backyard.

I'm willing

37 DaddyG  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:29:32pm

re: #32 recusancy

I'm not against it... It's just a problem politically. Nobody wants it in their backyard.

If they are as careful as they are out west I would be happy to charge a few billion for them to bury it under my home. As long as it is monitored and properly stored I'd be fine with it.

38 albusteve  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:32:16pm

a few liberal evniro weenies are holding the entire country hostage because they have a few dipshit federal judges in their pocket...forcing this stupid 'green shit' on us

39 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:32:31pm

re: #33 Sharmuta

It's my pleasure, Tony. There are a number of us that are aware we don't know a lot about the issue. I'm not afraid to admit I need to learn more on the subject, and that site has been a great help to me. Freetoken and LVQ were there to point it out to me and others, and as my way of showing appreciate to them, I'm more than glad to pass it along.


I've always suspected that global warming/climate change was somewhat overblown. But I try to be openminded and gather info on stuff. So I will study up and hopefully be smarter on this topic.

40 Velvet Elvis  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:33:03pm

"Nuclear Waste" is a misnomer. As long as it's radioactive it's a potential fuel source. We just don't use it because we either chose not to because making plutonium is scary or because it's not cost efficient. The idea behind Yuka Mountain is throw away billions of dollars worth of potential fuel.

41 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:34:06pm

re: #39 _RememberTonyC

It's not overblown, although there are some alarmists. Start with the introduction essay. You might be surprised at how long some in the scientific community have been warning about this.

42 KingKenrod  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:34:06pm

Sundance Channel showed "The Great Global Warming Swindle" last night, which I watched for the first time. Kind of strange, given the leftist slant of Sundance and all the green programming they have.

Most of the film seemed like bunk, but was interesting.

43 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:35:58pm

re: #42 KingKenrod

Sundance Channel showed "The Great Global Warming Swindle" last night, which I watched for the first time. Kind of strange, given the leftist slant of Sundance and all the green programming they have.

Most of the film seemed like bunk, but was interesting.

The film IS bunk.

44 albusteve  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:36:05pm

re: #40 Conservative Moonbat

"Nuclear Waste" is a misnomer. As long as it's radioactive it's a potential fuel source. We just don't use it because we either chose not to because making plutonium is scary or because it's not cost efficient. The idea behind Yuka Mountain is throw away billions of dollars worth of potential fuel.

then find a solution...the luddites are sticking to the free market capitalists...when the price of gas goes back to $5 a gallon they will have an orgasm

45 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:36:11pm

re: #36 albusteve

I'm willing

Steve, it's not your backyard :)

46 Digital Display  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:36:44pm

Good Afternoon Lizards! I'm Baaackkk!
My laptop blew up..So I dug out this Dell and it didn't have a NIC driver installed.. It's rather difficult to download a driver when you can't go on-line...
So I downloaded it from work..Came home and installed it then used the evil IE to install Firefox.. And here I am!
/No sound drivers yet...

47 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:36:49pm

I've always wondered why it was named "Greenland" in the 1st place!!

I figured some Norse explorer, never wanting to go back there, when he got home told everyone about "Greenland" so THEY would volunteer to go next time!!

Now Iceland,, THERES a permafrost name for ya !!!

//

48 recusancy  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:37:09pm

Quick ideological question...

When I think of the word "conservatism" I would think that "conservation" would be somewhere in there. Why is it that any form of conservation such as maybe driving a smaller/slower car then you'd like or recycling is scoffed at? It always goes to nuclear energy - because then nobody would have to conserve or give up anything. I'm not against nuclear but that's not a fix all.

Why does sacrifice only come in the form of religious devotion or blood on the battle field?

(I'm not impugning anyone here)

49 albusteve  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:37:23pm

re: #45 Walter L. Newton

Steve, it's not your backyard :)

it's true, I'm yardless

50 avanti  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:38:11pm

re: #13 Noam Sayin'

HAve we seen signs of the sea level rising?

I mean, are people reporting in? Because I have to imagine many islands in the Pacific will go away with just a foot or two rise.

Here's one of the first to go..

51 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:38:20pm

This would indicate that even if Kyoto had gone well and even if all goes well among all us carbon energy based nations-the ice will be history. So what's the way to plan in that scenario? Assume we lose the land according to a five or seven meter rise? It would seem so. Five meters in a century might be the planning point.

52 albusteve  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:38:35pm

re: #47 sattv4u2

I've always wondered why it was named "Greenland" in the 1st place!!

I figured some Norse explorer, never wanting to go back there, when he got home told everyone about "Greenland" so THEY would volunteer to go next time!!

Now Iceland,, THERES a permafrost name for ya !!!

//

was the ocean level 23 feet higher then?...or 12 or whatever?...something is fishy

53 J.S.  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:38:36pm

re: #46 HoosierHoops

(personally, I like Dell Computers...)

54 recusancy  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:38:57pm

re: #37 DaddyG

If they are as careful as they are out west I would be happy to charge a few billion for them to bury it under my home. As long as it is monitored and properly stored I'd be fine with it.

I agree with you.

But... Then why can't that same argument be made for storing terrorists on domestic soil?

55 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:39:11pm

re: #45 Walter L. Newton

Steve, it's not your backyard :)

I lived close to two differnt ones at times

South Shore of Boston there is the Pilgrim Power plant. Lived in the next town over (Kingston) for several years
North of Boston just over the New Hampshire border is another one (name escapes me at the moment) and I lived wihtin a mile of that for two years

56 Digital Display  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:40:01pm

re: #53 J.S.

(personally, I like Dell Computers...)

I'm currently using a Dell D620 laptop...If this one blows up I'm in deep dodo.

57 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:40:28pm

re: #48 recusancy

Quick ideological question...

When I think of the word "conservatism" I would think that "conservation" would be somewhere in there. Why is it that any form of conservation such as maybe driving a smaller/slower car then you'd like or recycling is scoffed at? It always goes to nuclear energy - because then nobody would have to conserve or give up anything. I'm not against nuclear but that's not a fix all.

Why does sacrifice only come in the form of religious devotion or blood on the battle field?

(I'm not impugning anyone here)

And you're not addressing anyone here either, since most of the conservatives here are moderate, and have no problem with recognizing the need to be careful with out environment.

So, who are you talking to?

58 J.S.  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:40:29pm

re: #48 recusancy

(i have no idea what you're talking about...drawing a complete blank here...)

59 Velvet Elvis  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:41:24pm

re: #44 albusteve

The solution is to reprocess it the way the french are doing it. 70% of waste is reused and the other 30% will be safe to handle with bare hands in 100 years.

The only problem is that one of the steps involves creating plutonium and people worry it would provide a source for new nuclear warheads.

60 wee fury  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:41:25pm

re: #37 DaddyG

If they are as careful as they are out west I would be happy to charge a few billion for them to bury it under my home. As long as it is monitored and properly stored I'd be fine with it.

In my back yard. This and this.

61 Claire  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:41:33pm

re: #18 recusancy

So you're open to storing the spent fuel in your backyard?

Since it's not going to Yucca Mtn, it is being stored at the plants themselves in the parking lots behind chain-link fences, from what I understand. Harry Reid is a moron of the first order.

62 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:41:34pm

re: #1 _RememberTonyC

look up Ludwigs contributions. He has posted the best links to catch up on the science of AGW. Unless somebody logged in now has them maybe...?
He's gonna love this thread.

63 Cato the Elder  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:41:34pm

re: #55 sattv4u2

I lived close to two differnt ones at times

South Shore of Boston there is the Pilgrim Power plant. Lived in the next town over (Kingston) for several years
North of Boston just over the New Hampshire border is another one (name escapes me at the moment) and I lived wihtin a mile of that for two years

I live within the evacuation zone of Vermont Yankee nuclear power plant. The evacuation plan is printed at the back of the phone book.

Just sayin'.

64 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:42:10pm

re: #48 recusancy

re: #57 Walter L. Newton

And you're not addressing anyone here either, since most of the conservatives here are moderate, and have no problem with recognizing the need to be careful with out environment.

So, who are you talking to?

RECUSANCY,,

If you saw my property you would know I'm a conservative both environementally as well as politically!

65 albusteve  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:43:09pm

America used to be renowned for finding solutions to our problems...what happened?...can this NIMBY shit really crush our economy?...can so few people allow us to drown?...the waste problem can easily be solved...who are these people anyway?

66 Ben Hur  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:43:18pm

Dude, it's GREENland.

There is no friggin' ice!

/

67 Velvet Elvis  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:43:43pm

re: #63 Cato the Elder

I live within the evacuation zone of Vermont Yankee nuclear power plant. The evacuation plan is printed at the back of the phone book.

Just sayin'.

You're probably more at risk living directly downstream from a major dam.

68 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:44:26pm

re: #10 Cato the Elder

By the way, did you get the script attached to the email last night?

69 brookly red  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:44:26pm

re: #34 Conservative Moonbat

They reprocess their waste, like we should do but don't because the nuclear fuel industry is big bucks and a big lobby.

I could be wrong but don't we turn ours into armor piercing munitions?

70 webevintage  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:44:27pm

re: #24 _RememberTonyC

what does France do? Most of their electricity comes from nuclear power.

One of the things the French do is they have ONE design, just one, for all the plants. They do not go over budget because the plants are all the same.
They reprocess some, they stock some.

[Link: www.pbs.org...]

[Link: www.pbs.org...]

and I think this is the Frontline ep we watched with the part about the French program:
[Link: www.pbs.org...]

I'm all for nuclear done right.

Oh and that reminded me of Brooksley Born and the collapse of the derivitives market and the economic collapse.
The Warning.
[Link: www.pbs.org...]
(no lefty lib stuff, just information on how the Clinton administration fucked up and how wrong Greenspan was)

71 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:44:30pm

re: #57 Walter L. Newton

And you're not addressing anyone here either, since most of the conservatives here are moderate, and have no problem with recognizing the need to be careful with out environment.

So, who are you talking to?

*Sigh*

"Moderates" in the GOP are actually the conservatives (Goldwater!) and the so-called "conservatives" are theo-cons. Goldwater was very much a supporter of science and a nature lover. Were he here today, he'd be a supporter of Lindsey Graham, imo.

72 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:44:41pm

In my opinion, there has not yet been enough increase in temperature in the northern hemisphere to account for all the documented melting here and there.
The worst- known/suspected melting agent at this point seems to be the large increase in sunray- absorbing black soot emitted by coal- fired generation in emerging nations. Western nations do a fair job of removing soot particulates, while those coming late to the party haven't made any efforts to control black soot and other particulates, not yet, at least. They do promise to do something about it after their economies catch up to ours.

73 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:45:06pm

I really, really, really think that we need a Transcontinental-Railroad level, Apollo Mission intensity, Manhattan Project scope commitment to really developing alternative energy, of all forms. Including nuclear.

74 DaddyG  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:45:17pm

re: #47 sattv4u2

I've always wondered why it was named "Greenland" in the 1st place!!

I figured some Norse explorer, never wanting to go back there, when he got home told everyone about "Greenland" so THEY would volunteer to go next time!!

Now Iceland,, THERES a permafrost name for ya !!!

//

IIRC that is pretty close to how it was. They were trying to encourage settlement.

75 Velvet Elvis  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:45:22pm

re: #65 albusteve

America used to be renowned for finding solutions to our problems...what happened?...can this NIMBY shit really crush our economy?...can so few people allow us to drown?...the waste problem can easily be solved...who are these people anyway?

It's people on the right who are opposed to reprocessing because of the proliferation risk.

76 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:45:28pm

re: #63 Cato the Elder

I live within the evacuation zone of Vermont Yankee nuclear power plant. The evacuation plan is printed at the back of the phone book.

Just sayin'.

When I was a kid, the gov't obtained a list from the USSR of the top 10 sites they would hit if they attacked America. I olived within a mile of one of them! VERY comforting for a 12 year old!

77 albusteve  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:45:38pm

re: #66 Ben Hur

Dude, it's GREENland.

There is no friggin' ice!

/

what were the sea levels when Greenland had only half the ice it has today?...where are the studies, the proof?...ice is melting faster than what?

78 katemaclaren  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:45:40pm

When I was a young girl, my dad took me out on a machine called a weasel (or snow cat) in the far north of Alaska and pointed out that this entire area was once covered with forests. When we were in the Middle EAst before it was called the Middle East, he pointed to the desert and asked me if I knew what used to be there--forests. He had an oil exploration company--seismograph.
If manmade warming is actually happening--I haven't heard any proposal that would really stop it. In fact, I don't think anything will stop it, whether or NOT it is man made. When it comes to this planet, one thing is certainly a given--change is inevitable, constant, and not always very predictable in geology and/or meteorology. As for me, my first degree is in science, and right now, I have just experienced living through the third coldest October on record.

79 DaddyG  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:45:48pm

re: #63 Cato the Elder

I live within the evacuation zone of Vermont Yankee nuclear power plant. The evacuation plan is printed at the back of the phone book.

Just sayin'.


You had to look that up in a hurry yet?

80 Cato the Elder  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:45:52pm

re: #68 Walter L. Newton

By the way, did you get the script attached to the email last night?

I did, thank you very much!

[deep bow to the author]

81 recusancy  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:46:22pm

re: #57 Walter L. Newton

And you're not addressing anyone here either, since most of the conservatives here are moderate, and have no problem with recognizing the need to be careful with out environment.

So, who are you talking to?

Well... I guess I was speaking to the Republican elites. The FOX news crowd. I figured there be at least one here who thought that way. Guess not. Just 8 years of Bushies saying that it's Americans god given right to consume as much and live however the hell they want. Which is fine (government shouldn't be telling anybody how to live) but it doesn't sound like conservation to me.

82 webevintage  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:46:38pm

re: #47 sattv4u2

I've always wondered why it was named "Greenland" in the 1st place!!

I figured some Norse explorer, never wanting to go back there, when he got home told everyone about "Greenland" so THEY would volunteer to go next time!!

Now Iceland,, THERES a permafrost name for ya !!!

//

Because when they first discovered it Greenland was green...

83 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:46:41pm

re: #59 Conservative Moonbat

I would argue that's why you as a nuclear nation have a plutonium fueled reactor to use. We agreed to take apart a bunch of plutonium weapons under SALT. Those pits are in storage, why not use them for electricity under inspection? Use those warheads up and the waste you referred to.

84 albusteve  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:46:49pm

re: #69 brookly red

I could be wrong but don't we turn ours into armor piercing munitions?

yes, love it...20mm canon rounds for the A-10

85 MandyManners  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:47:05pm

re: #81 recusancy

Well... I guess I was speaking to the Republican elites. The FOX news crowd. I figured there be at least one here who thought that way. Guess not. Just 8 years of Bushies saying that it's Americans god given right to consume as much and live however the hell they want. Which is fine (government shouldn't be telling anybody how to live) but it doesn't sound like conservation to me.

When and where did Pres. Bush say that? Got a link?

86 DaddyG  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:47:13pm

You weenies and your nuke plants. I live within 35 miles of the Center for Disease Control. My impending doom involves fever pustules and a painful rash. /

87 Velvet Elvis  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:47:15pm

re: #69 brookly red

I could be wrong but don't we turn ours into armor piercing munitions?

I don't know what % that accounts for. Having to depend on being at war to dispose of nuclear waste isn't really a solution though.

88 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:47:32pm

re: #82 webevintage

Because when they first discovered it Greenland was green...

So it's GREEN again! Hmmm!!!

Think about that for awhile!!!

89 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:47:33pm

re: #71 Sharmuta

*Sigh*

"Moderates" in the GOP are actually the conservatives (Goldwater!) and the so-called "conservatives" are theo-cons. Goldwater was very much a supporter of science and a nature lover. Were he here today, he'd be a supporter of Lindsey Graham, imo.

I agree. I just hate when someone just assumes who we are and aren't. It's insulting.

Recusancy needs to pay a little better attention to the commenters here before he/she/it just assumes who we are.

Pisses me off.

90 Cato the Elder  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:47:40pm

re: #76 sattv4u2

When I was a kid, the gov't obtained a list from the USSR of the top 10 sites they would hit if they attacked America. I olived within a mile of one of them! VERY comforting for a 12 year old!

I don't know how old you are, but I remember grade-school "duck-and-cover" exercises.

Put your head between your knees and kiss your ass goodbye!

91 Ben Hur  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:47:59pm

re: #77 albusteve

what were the sea levels when Greenland had only half the ice it has today?...where are the studies, the proof?...ice is melting faster than what?

No my expertise.

Though I know there used to be an ice bridge or something in that area thousands of years ago.

Leif Erikson, from what I remember, saw settlements when he came over.

92 J.S.  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:48:06pm

re: #80 Cato the Elder

but would that be at a 40 or a 60 or a 90 degree level?
/

93 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:48:20pm

re: #72 Capitalist Tool

Your opinion doesn't change facts. The global temperature has indeed risen.

94 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:48:46pm

re: #90 Cato the Elder

I don't know how old you are, but I remember grade-school "duck-and-cover" exercises.

Put your head between your knees and kiss your ass goodbye!

Was born in 1953,,, Birthday is the end of this week

YOU do the math!

95 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:49:02pm

re: #87 Conservative Moonbat

How radioactive is depleted uranium? Not useful around the house right? I mean at that density it would be a great hammer. Or counter-weights for elevators. Too active I suppose.

96 Ben Hur  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:49:05pm

Must be a huge plant.

97 albusteve  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:49:17pm

re: #81 recusancy

Well... I guess I was speaking to the Republican elites. The FOX news crowd. I figured there be at least one here who thought that way. Guess not. Just 8 years of Bushies saying that it's Americans god given right to consume as much and live however the hell they want. Which is fine (government shouldn't be telling anybody how to live) but it doesn't sound like conservation to me.

you post alot of bullshit

98 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:49:32pm

re: #77 albusteve

see #88

99 MandyManners  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:49:36pm
100 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:49:48pm

re: #83 Rightwingconspirator

I would argue that's why you as a nuclear nation have a plutonium fueled reactor to use. We agreed to take apart a bunch of plutonium weapons under SALT. Those pits are in storage, why not use them for electricity under inspection? Use those warheads up and the waste you referred to.

There have been reports circulating around that one of our cheapest sources of fuel right now is from dismantled and bargain- basement priced former Soviet warheads. linky

101 J.S.  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:49:49pm

re: #91 Ben Hur

oh please, to call it "Greenland" was an obvious propaganda ploy by the imperialists.

102 DaddyG  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:50:04pm

re: #97 albusteve

you post alot of bullshit


That is a recycle-able resource.

103 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:50:07pm

re: #81 recusancy

Well... I guess I was speaking to the Republican elites. The FOX news crowd. I figured there be at least one here who thought that way. Guess not. Just 8 years of Bushies saying that it's Americans god given right to consume as much and live however the hell they want. Which is fine (government shouldn't be telling anybody how to live) but it doesn't sound like conservation to me.

And did you notice the Mark of Bush on our foreheads. An did you notice how we all have that "deer in the headlight" look. And did you notice anything here on LGF, or do you just post away without paying any attention to what the rest of us are all about.

You sound like a fucking idiot to me.

104 Semper Fi  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:50:11pm

re: #28 J.S.

We've got record high temperatures right now in Edmonton...complete with dandelions going to seed! piture here...(btw, there was another odd weather event here -- back in sept/oct -- the frost and snow arrived exceptionally early, killed off everything, including my tomatoes. Anyway, the weird thing was this -- the deciduous trees had green leaves, yet there was a blanket of snow on the ground! The University of Alberta's agricultural department received reams of phone calls asking what was going on? The deciduous trees had not changed color -- leaves were all green -- yet snow had fallen (in some areas, it was very, very bizarre to see this -- you'd see an alder tree, snow on the ground, and around the tree a ring of fallen leaves -- and the leaves were all green...the green leaves apparently knocked off the trees by the snow fall...(very odd...no pictures of that, though...) Oh, the people at the Univ of Alberta said a similar phenomenon had not occurred for at least the last 40 odd years...very freakish...

I thought deciduous plants/trees were 'light' sensitive with 'temperature' playing little or no role. So what do I know?

105 katemaclaren  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:50:38pm

re: #86 DaddyG

Owww ouch!

106 albusteve  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:51:00pm

re: #89 Walter L. Newton

I agree. I just hate when someone just assumes who we are and aren't. It's insulting.

Recusancy needs to pay a little better attention to the commenters here before he/she/it just assumes who we are.

Pisses me off.

heh...heh...it's an open forum, I'm done with that guy

107 katemaclaren  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:51:03pm

re: #99 MandyManners

Thanks Mandy.

108 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:51:22pm

re: #93 Sharmuta

Your opinion doesn't change facts. The global temperature has indeed risen.


Hello dear.
You'll notice I made no claim that temps haven't risen...

109 Velvet Elvis  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:51:27pm

re: #83 Rightwingconspirator

I would argue that's why you as a nuclear nation have a plutonium fueled reactor to use. We agreed to take apart a bunch of plutonium weapons under SALT. Those pits are in storage, why not use them for electricity under inspection? Use those warheads up and the waste you referred to.

We are using them.

What we're not using are the fast/breeder reactors that turn uranium into plutonium, producing heat in the process. The plutonium can then be used again in another reactor, producing more fissionable materials, etc. I'm not an expert on it, but if a developing nation like India can pull it off we sure should be able to.

110 webevintage  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:51:29pm

re: #99 MandyManners

Have you ever read this?


I love that ranch.
I love the design, the stone facade, the tin roof with the overhang that goes all the way around.
It really is an attractive home.

111 katemaclaren  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:51:30pm

re: #106 albusteve

Thanks guys.

112 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:51:33pm

re: #94 sattv4u2

Was born in 1953,,, Birthday is the end of this week

YOU do the math!

You died last week? (I was never good at math). Dude, your only a year younger than me, I was born in 1952.

113 Ben Hur  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:52:04pm

re: #81 recusancy

Well... I guess I was speaking to the Republican elites. The FOX news crowd. I figured there be at least one here who thought that way. Guess not. Just 8 years of Bushies saying that it's Americans god given right to consume as much and live however the hell they want. Which is fine (government shouldn't be telling anybody how to live) but it doesn't sound like conservation to me.

Wow, that was realy...Non-Conformist.

114 Ben Hur  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:52:23pm

Really, actually.

115 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:52:24pm

re: #72 Capitalist Tool

I had read somewhere the airborne soot helps prevent warming.

116 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:52:35pm

re: #94 sattv4u2

Was born in 1953,,, Birthday is the end of this week

YOU do the math!

whippersnapper

117 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:52:35pm

re: #112 Walter L. Newton

You died last week? (I was never good at math). Dude, your only a year younger than me, I was born in 1952.

Ya old man, you!

118 katemaclaren  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:53:01pm

re: #103 Walter L. Newton

Thanks Walter.

119 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:53:19pm

re: #116 Capitalist Tool

whippersnapper

I'm too old to have my whipper snapped
Got anything in a soothing rub!?!?!

120 J.S.  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:53:22pm

re: #104 Semper Fi

I believe the latest findings (I could be wrong here) with respect to leaf change of color is due to moisture uptake...(?) in combo with other factors (will have to check this one out, it's an interesting question...)

121 brookly red  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:53:29pm

re: #87 Conservative Moonbat

I don't know what % that accounts for. Having to depend on being at war to dispose of nuclear waste isn't really a solution though.

hmmm, maybe not...

122 recusancy  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:53:32pm

re: #85 MandyManners

When and where did Pres. Bush say that? Got a link?

I don't have the links... But

Fleicher was asked at a briefing if the president thought Americans need to cut conserve and buy smaller more fuel efficient vehicles. He responded with an unequivocal NO.

9/11 happened. Country was ready to sacrifice. We were asked to shop.

Hannity scoffs at the idea of not driving a large SUV.

123 katemaclaren  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:54:19pm

re: #119 sattv4u2

LOL

124 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:54:38pm

re: #115 Rightwingconspirator

I had read somewhere the airborne soot helps prevent warming.

there is that contention as well... not so much black soot perhaps, but dust of the type given off by volcanoes and me going down the average County road in late August.

125 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:54:53pm

re: #118 katemaclaren

Thanks Walter.

You welcome. People like Recusancy give a bad name to liberals... Honestly... Recusancy... try Democratic Underground... that's the best place for liberals who speak first before thinking to hang out.

126 katemaclaren  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:54:55pm

re: #122 recusancy

Hannity drives a hybrid Escalade.

127 AK-47%  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:54:56pm

Nuclear energy would be prohibitively expensive if not for the liability cap on nuclear plants. There are fixed amount - varying from from $300 million in the US to €700 miliion (around $1 billion) in Europe - for the amount they would hve to pay out in the vent of a catastrophe.

If these limits were lifted and they face the possiblity of paying out the actual cost of damages that might ensue (the estimated Costs of Chernobyl were given at over $200 billion [Link: www.ratical.org...] no insurer would take them on at any cost, or at one so high that it would be cheaper to hire a nuclear physicist to run a treadmill in yout back yard.

128 recusancy  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:55:16pm

re: #97 albusteve

you post alot of bullshit

Right back at ya.

129 katemaclaren  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:55:20pm

re: #125 Walter L. Newton

So very very true.

130 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:55:25pm

re: #122 recusancy

I don't have the links... But

Fleicher was asked at a briefing if the president thought Americans need to cut conserve and buy smaller more fuel efficient vehicles. He responded with an unequivocal NO.

9/11 happened. Country was ready to sacrifice. We were asked to shop.

Hannity scoffs at the idea of not driving a large SUV.

I have a large SUV!

In the spring/ summer I take 6 kids with all their soccer gear 200-300 miles from home on a Friday night, returning Sunday late afternoon. I figure it would take 3-4 Prius's to do the same thing!

131 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:55:28pm

re: #78 katemaclaren

A lot of previous changes in our climate have come in the form of natural phenomena like shifts in our axis, interstellar visitors like the one that wiped out the dinosaurs, or even plate tectonics. No one disputes that the climate changes. In fact- these things show just how delicate our climate is when a small shift or a meteor or a subcontinent ramming into Asia can alter the entire planet.

What's going on this time however is man is introducing one of these variables into the mix, and it is having an impact. Can we reverse this? Possibly. The real issues though are how are we going to manage our species survival if we don't start coming to grip with the implications now? Waiting until we're out of fresh water will be too late.

132 katemaclaren  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:55:47pm

re: #128 recusancy

Mandy, where are you when we need you...?

133 MandyManners  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:55:49pm

re: #122 recusancy

I don't have the links... But

Fleicher was asked at a briefing if the president thought Americans need to cut conserve and buy smaller more fuel efficient vehicles. He responded with an unequivocal NO.

9/11 happened. Country was ready to sacrifice. We were asked to shop.

Hannity scoffs at the idea of not driving a large SUV.

No link? Color me shocked.

134 albusteve  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:56:20pm

re: #122 recusancy

I don't have the links... But

Fleicher was asked at a briefing if the president thought Americans need to cut conserve and buy smaller more fuel efficient vehicles. He responded with an unequivocal NO.

9/11 happened. Country was ready to sacrifice. We were asked to shop.

Hannity scoffs at the idea of not driving a large SUV.

as for me, you don't count anymore...your backhanded insults will be remembered

135 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:56:28pm

re: #122 recusancy

I don't have the links... But

Fleicher was asked at a briefing if the president thought Americans need to cut conserve and buy smaller more fuel efficient vehicles. He responded with an unequivocal NO.

9/11 happened. Country was ready to sacrifice. We were asked to shop.

Hannity scoffs at the idea of not driving a large SUV.

You can't be that thick, can you. So, because of Hannity, or because of some imagined Bush comment (which you can't give us a reference for), you lump all the conservatives here with those jerks.

Thanks...

136 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:56:47pm

re: #108 Capitalist Tool

Hello dear.

Don't fucking patronize me.

137 albusteve  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:57:27pm

re: #128 recusancy

Right back at ya.

I suggest you go lurk for a few months...do us all a favor

138 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:57:46pm

re: #63 Cato the Elder

I live within the evacuation zone of Vermont Yankee nuclear power plant. The evacuation plan is printed at the back of the phone book.

Just sayin'.

There used to be a nuclear plant outside of Portland, OR. The emergency instructions on the back of their brochure said to tune into the radio station KBAM.

True!

139 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:58:18pm

re: #128 recusancy

Right back at ya.

Do you bother to read any of the other post on this thread, you know, the comments that are not just yours? You're digging a deep one... how about paying a little attention to some of the advice you are getting, from a bunch of people here.

140 MandyManners  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 2:59:20pm

re: #132 katemaclaren

Mandy, where are you when we need you...?

I'm holding back on the suggestion of what to do to a rope.

141 albusteve  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:00:24pm

re: #131 Sharmuta

A lot of previous changes in our climate have come in the form of natural phenomena like shifts in our axis, interstellar visitors like the one that wiped out the dinosaurs, or even plate tectonics. No one disputes that the climate changes. In fact- these things show just how delicate our climate is when a small shift or a meteor or a subcontinent ramming into Asia can alter the entire planet.

What's going on this time however is man is introducing one of these variables into the mix, and it is having an impact. Can we reverse this? Possibly. The real issues though are how are we going to manage our species survival if we don't start coming to grip with the implications now? Waiting until we're out of fresh water will be too late.

it's happening NOW...and people dicker, instead of finding solutions...southern CA just will not sacrifice their lifestyle, for example...bandaids for a major arteriole bleedout

142 katemaclaren  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:00:26pm

re: #131 Sharmuta

I'm afraid the answer is--we won't and we can't. And when I say "we"--I mean that globally. ...and I do mean "afraid." Not for me--but for the next generations. I'm not a gloom and doomer--but I do think that it will take something shocking--not shrinking Greenland--because it was, indeed, once green--I mean a shocking bit of information--that will change the collective mind. Oddly, I feel that it won't be an event, but it will be what we discover--something simple--that can be done easily which will end up solving any manmade factor in the equation. I'm thinking that plastic is probably at the center of my supposition.

143 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:00:30pm

re: #108 Capitalist Tool

You'll notice I made no claim that temps haven't risen...

You said:

In my opinion, there has not yet been enough increase in temperature in the northern hemisphere to account for all the documented melting here and there.

There has been, and your opinion doesn't change facts. All it does is make you look like you're basing your position on something other than the data.

144 ghazidor  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:00:33pm

re: #5 albusteve

two words...
nuclear energy


where is it?

Japan

145 Cato the Elder  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:00:36pm

re: #94 sattv4u2

Was born in 1953,,, Birthday is the end of this week

YOU do the math!

We seem to have the same birthday, if you mean the 20th.

146 Cato the Elder  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:00:55pm

re: #144 ausador

Japan

France.

Germany.

Iran.

147 brookly red  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:01:34pm

re: #138 wrenchwench

There used to be a nuclear plant outside of Portland, OR. The emergency instructions on the back of their brochure said to tune into the radio station KBAM.

True!

I heard on the radio that there seems to be an unusually high rate of thyroid cancer around Indian Point... I am not sure what if anything it means, but I think we will be hearing more about it.

148 AK-47%  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:01:59pm

re: #146 Cato the Elder

France.

Germany.

Iran.


Chernobyl

oops, that one's closed.

149 Semper Fi  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:02:05pm

re: #120 J.S.

I believe the latest findings (I could be wrong here) with respect to leaf change of color is due to moisture uptake...(?) in combo with other factors (will have to check this one out, it's an interesting question...)

I'd be interested in anything you learn. In recent years I vaguely remember something about cherry trees in Washington and in Japan blooming despite unusually cold temps and snow on the ground. If moisture is also a factor...?

150 katemaclaren  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:02:14pm

re: #140 MandyManners

Go for it. No one says it like you.

151 recusancy  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:02:22pm

re: #139 Walter L. Newton

Do you bother to read any of the other post on this thread, you know, the comments that are not just yours? You're digging a deep one... how about paying a little attention to some of the advice you are getting, from a bunch of people here.

I'm asking an honest goddamn question and all I get are people telling me to go to hell. I'm here to engage conservatives. I know that this is a moderate right blog. I figured I could have someone who has dealt with people of that mindset to truly explain it. Do you really think I'm making this up? That it's just imagined?

152 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:02:23pm

re: #142 katemaclaren

I'm thinking that plastic is probably at the center of my supposition.

Didn't someone suggest that to Dustin Hoffman in the movie The Graduate!?!?!?!
//

153 MandyManners  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:02:39pm

re: #150 katemaclaren

Go for it. No one says it like you.

It's best used sooner than now.

154 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:03:01pm

re: #145 Cato the Elder

We seem to have the same birthday, if you mean the 20th.

19th

Happy (early) Birthday

What year, if I may ask?

155 MandyManners  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:03:10pm

re: #151 recusancy

I'm asking an honest goddamn question and all I get are people telling me to go to hell. I'm here to engage conservatives. I know that this is a moderate right blog. I figured I could have someone who has dealt with people of that mindset to truly explain it. Do you really think I'm making this up? That it's just imagined?

Why don't you bring some proof to the table?

156 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:03:55pm

re: #136 Sharmuta

Don't fucking patronize me.

Ok... 1st off, Shar...
I've been around you on this board for years and like you, although I did just do a bit do a bit of counting ... in re your response to me.

That "Hello-" was meant as a greeting to a friend as I was in a friendly mood and not as any sort of patronization.
If you took it that way, then no big deal for me.

157 ryannon  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:03:59pm

re: #25 Walter L. Newton

France handles it fine. They get almost 70 percent of their electricity from nuclear.

Next question?


The French handle it like the French. Smoke, mirrors and lots of lies.

[Link: www.spiegel.de...]

158 MandyManners  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:04:11pm

re: #151 recusancy

I'm asking an honest goddamn question and all I get are people telling me to go to hell. I'm here to engage conservatives. I know that this is a moderate right blog. I figured I could have someone who has dealt with people of that mindset to truly explain it. Do you really think I'm making this up? That it's just imagined?

Who's told you to go to hell?

160 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:04:59pm

re: #148 ralphieboy

Chernobyl

oops, that one's closed.

Communist System of Technology and Engineering at it's best

Anything even remotely similar to that in free market countries?

161 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:05:02pm

re: #142 katemaclaren

Actually- science is leading the way in discovering ways in which we can take excessive CO2 out of the atmosphere:

Forest of 100,000 Artificial Carbon-Capturing Trees Proposed in UK

Carbon-capturing artificial trees have been getting some due attention lately, and for good reason: each fake tree can suck down CO2 thousands of times faster than their leafy, organic brethren--giving them intriguing potential as part of the solution to global climate change. Now, scientists have taken the idea a step further--they're proposing that one of the most practical ways to cut greenhouse gases on a large scale is to build a forest of 100,000 artificial trees over the next 10-20 years.

As Killgore would say... Science!

162 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:05:16pm

re: #151 recusancy

I'm asking an honest goddamn question and all I get are people telling me to go to hell. I'm here to engage conservatives. I know that this is a moderate right blog. I figured I could have someone who has dealt with people of that mindset to truly explain it. Do you really think I'm making this up? That it's just imagined?

That's a hell of a backpedal.

I think you're just trolling, at this point.

163 Cato the Elder  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:05:52pm

re: #154 sattv4u2

19th

Happy (early) Birthday

What year, if I may ask?

MCMLVI

165 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:06:16pm

re: #163 Cato the Elder

MCMLVI

bastard,, Now I have to think!

166 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:06:19pm

re: #156 Capitalist Tool

Sorry I was snappish.

167 albusteve  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:06:39pm

re: #151 recusancy

I'm asking an honest goddamn question and all I get are people telling me to go to hell. I'm here to engage conservatives. I know that this is a moderate right blog. I figured I could have someone who has dealt with people of that mindset to truly explain it. Do you really think I'm making this up? That it's just imagined?

you sound like a spoiled punk to me...nobody here owes you anything and so far your judgement is a bit inadequate...I'm no whizbang intellect but at least I get along with folks...you can find a way too, but you might stand back for awhile and listen to others, instead of pigeon holing us to fit your paradigm

168 AK-47%  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:06:55pm

re: #160 sattv4u2

Communist System of Technology and Engineering at it's best

Anything even remotely similar to that in free market countries?

All run by human beings, who make human errors.

Once again, we cap our liability for nuclear disasters at less than $1billion in the West, the cost of Chernobyl was over 20 billion.

The point is that if nuclear plants were to be held liable for all their potential damages and not just a fraction, the costs of insuring them would be prohibitively high.

170 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:07:51pm

re: #151 recusancy

I'm asking an honest goddamn question and all I get are people telling me to go to hell. I'm here to engage conservatives. I know that this is a moderate right blog. I figured I could have someone who has dealt with people of that mindset to truly explain it. Do you really think I'm making this up? That it's just imagined?

Go back and read your posts. You start right off with ONE BIG ASSUMPTION, "Why is it that any form of conservation such as maybe driving a smaller/slower car then you'd like or recycling is scoffed at?"

You see that word "any" and then your assumption "is scoffed at?" You implication is all conservative scoff at conservation.

There are dozens of conservatives on LGF and I only know of 2 or 3 that would even come close, and I only say close to your statement above.

You didn't ask an honest question, you made a all inclusive assumptions, very dishonest. And then when other Lizards on this thread tried to point this out to you, you got smack mouth or simply ignored the advice.

Play again?

171 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:08:32pm

re: #168 ralphieboy

All run by human beings, who make human errors.

Once again, we cap our liability for nuclear disasters at less than $1billion in the West, the cost of Chernobyl was over 20 billion.

The point is that if nuclear plants were to be held liable for all their potential damages and not just a fraction, the costs of insuring them would be prohibitively high.

Once again, Anything even remotely similar to that in free market countries?

172 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:08:33pm

re: #162 Obdicut

That's a hell of a backpedal.

I think you're just trolling, at this point.

Pot meet kettle!

173 MandyManners  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:08:49pm

re: #159 recusancy

Did you read my No. 99?

174 AK-47%  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:09:23pm

re: #164 MandyManners

See? It wasn't painful to provide a link, was it?

There was a time in the XVIII when Capitalism was in ints infancy when we simply could not extract the resources from the Earth at a rate fast enough to deplete them more than locally, and the bounty did seem endless.

It was only into the XX century when technology and growth allowed us to approach it on a major scale that we started to buck up against the limits.

But the mindset continued well into the Bush Administration. Need more? just drill...

175 albusteve  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:09:44pm

re: #166 Sharmuta

Sorry I was snappish.

heh...snapperdoodle...it's all part of the total thing here

176 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:10:41pm

re: #172 Walter L. Newton

Pot meet kettle!

I never, ever troll. Anything you hear me say is what I believe. I don't say anything just to antagonize or stir up.

If you think my opinions suck, that what I say makes me less in your eyes, that's fine. But I'm entirely honest about it. And I try to be civil.

177 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:11:54pm

re: #163 Cato the Elder

re: #112 Walter L. Newton

Hey ,, if the three of us ever get together we can match age spots!

178 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:11:55pm

re: #143 Sharmuta

There has been, and your opinion doesn't change facts. All it does is make you look like you're basing your position on something other than the data.


Ok, so which has the greater influence melting above the Arctic Circle- raising the average annual temp in the Arctic less than 1C so far, or continuously covering the ice with a thin layer of black soot?

179 webevintage  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:11:57pm

re: #122 recusancy

I don't have the links... But

Fleicher was asked at a briefing if the president thought Americans need to cut conserve and buy smaller more fuel efficient vehicles. He responded with an unequivocal NO.

Wish you know what it happened because you can find the transcripts from all press briefings here:
[Link: georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov...]
It is always a fun game to go back and see what Dana are Ari said while at the podium when they are slinging BS at the present Administration on FOX news.

180 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:12:15pm

Speaking of conservation, my high electric bill this year is $80, my water bill is $20 ($12 of that for trash). So, I am immune from lefty enviro scorn.

181 Digital Display  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:13:00pm

re: #180 Cannadian Club Akbar

Speaking of conservation, my high electric bill this year is $80, my water bill is $20 ($12 of that for trash). So, I am immune from lefty enviro scorn.

Did you get the job?

182 AK-47%  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:13:10pm

re: #171 sattv4u2

Once again, Anything even remotely similar to that in free market countries?


A Chernobyl is highly unlikely, but if something only half as disastrous were to happen, it would exceed current liability caps at least ten times over.

These liability caps are in effect, an indirect subsidy that totally distors the "free" market. That is my main problem with nuclear energy.

Sort that out and then I am all in favor of letting it compete with other power sources, but it could well prove cheaper to hire anuclear physicist to run a treadmill in your backyard than to generate energy that has cover the insurance costs of a nuclear facility.

183 katemaclaren  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:13:11pm

re: #151 recusancy

You are name calling. You are assuming everyone here reflexively reacts to any mention of George Bush in the same way. You are assuming people here aren't thinking individuals--underscore individuals. Most manage to discuss ideas and even people with whom they disagree, whether ideologically or not, with respect or some friendly (okay, sometimes not so friendly) spattery. You just need to pay attention to those warnings, bud, they may be virtual, but they're serious.

184 recusancy  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:13:17pm

re: #167 albusteve

you sound like a spoiled punk to me...nobody here owes you anything and so far your judgement is a bit inadequate...I'm no whizbang intellect but at least I get along with folks...you can find a way too, but you might stand back for awhile and listen to others, instead of pigeon holing us to fit your paradigm

Did you read my initial question? I was asking what I thought was a fair question. I said it wasn't to impugn anyone here. I figured I'd get people to agree with me and then say what they thought on the subject. Maybe I could have worded it better to say 'some' conservatives. But I asked because I noticed this thread went right to nuclear energy and lambasting carbon credits or anything like that.

185 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:14:29pm

re: #151 recusancy

I'm asking an honest goddamn question and all I get are people telling me to go to hell. I'm here to engage conservatives. I know that this is a moderate right blog. I figured I could have someone who has dealt with people of that mindset to truly explain it. Do you really think I'm making this up? That it's just imagined?

We are just as baffled by the kooks as you are. Don't ask us how these folks can say America was founded as a Christian nation. We don't know how they got that way. We don't really understand their thinking because it's just that wrong. Hell- maybe this lack of conservation stems from their end time fantasies. How should we know? I'd get an account at Hot Air and ask those morons.

186 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:14:29pm

re: #181 HoosierHoops

Did you get the job?

Bakery, no. Got an interview for another Thursday and accepted a job at a large chain today. And sent out 3 more resumes today.:)

187 albusteve  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:14:30pm

re: #176 Obdicut

I never, ever troll. Anything you hear me say is what I believe. I don't say anything just to antagonize or stir up.

If you think my opinions suck, that what I say makes me less in your eyes, that's fine. But I'm entirely honest about it. And I try to be civil.

bullshit...you get frustrated when called out on some rinky dink thing then call people names...you think people here don't remember that shit?

188 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:14:41pm

re: #166 Sharmuta

no need for that, but thanks anyway

189 katemaclaren  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:14:45pm

re: #174 ralphieboy

Well, George doesn't fish. Factory fishing is one of the world's biggest yet most under-reported eco-disaster waiting (or maybe not) to happen.

190 avanti  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:15:06pm

re: #78 katemaclaren

When I was a young girl, my dad took me out on a machine called a weasel (or snow cat) in the far north of Alaska and pointed out that this entire area was once covered with forests.

I never miss a chance for a Studebaker reference. (They built the WW II weasels.)


[Link: www.peeniewallie.com...]

191 katemaclaren  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:15:23pm

re: #185 Sharmuta

Good advice.

192 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:15:28pm

re: #176 Obdicut

Anything you hear me say is what I believe. I don't say anything just to antagonize or stir up.

Ah hell,, I DO ,, I love playing Devils Advocate

I figure to really know a subject you should be able to debate it from either sides. AND,, if I see someone say something dumb defending the side that I really agree withm I'll challkenge that person becuase I don;t want that (dumbness) on "my" side

193 albusteve  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:15:44pm

re: #180 Cannadian Club Akbar

Speaking of conservation, my high electric bill this year is $80, my water bill is $20 ($12 of that for trash). So, I am immune from lefty enviro scorn.

I am too...my carbon footprint is in the negative...spare me

194 recusancy  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:15:45pm

re: #185 Sharmuta

We are just as baffled by the kooks as you are. Don't ask us how these folks can say America was founded as a Christian nation. We don't know how they got that way. We don't really understand their thinking because it's just that wrong. Hell- maybe this lack of conservation stems from their end time fantasies. How should we know? I'd get an account at Hot Air and ask those morons.

There. That's an honest answer.

195 katemaclaren  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:15:51pm

re: #190 avanti

Well, I'll be darned! How very cool (pun intentional)!

196 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:16:17pm

re: #178 Capitalist Tool

Ok, so which has the greater influence melting above the Arctic Circle- raising the average annual temp in the Arctic less than 1C so far, or continuously covering the ice with a thin layer of black soot?

This is the first time I've heard anything about soot having anything to do with AGW. My understanding is increases of soot in the atmosphere would decrease temps as the pollution would be blocking the Sun. Do you have some links to this and are they peer reviewed?

197 coscolo  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:16:42pm

re: #47 sattv4u2

I've always wondered why it was named "Greenland" in the 1st place!!

I figured some Norse explorer, never wanting to go back there, when he got home told everyone about "Greenland" so THEY would volunteer to go next time!!

Now Iceland,, THERES a permafrost name for ya !!!
//

Eric the Red chose the name, "Greenland," to help recruit settlers according to touring exhibit on the Vikings I saw several years ago. It was developer-speak of the first order although at that time the climate was such that trees grew and crops and cattle prospered. The colony even grew large enough to have its own bishop, and people seemed to have visited back and forth with Iceland. Onset of Little Ice Age and bad relations with the natives caused most European Greenlanders to retreat to Iceland. When an expedition stopped by to check on the few die-hards later on, no one was left.

I, too, would be interested in knowing the extent of Greenland's ice sheet at the time the settlement was thriving. I understand the recent retreat of the ice is exposing more and more Viking sites.

198 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:17:14pm

re: #187 albusteve

bullshit...you get frustrated when called out on some rinky dink thing then call people names...you think people here don't remember that shit?

I try my absolute best to never call anyone a name. I do say that I think people are being silly, or hyperbolic, or unfair, or any number of other things.

It's the difference between telling someone that they are stupid, or they are acting stupid.

199 albusteve  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:17:17pm

re: #184 recusancy

Did you read my initial question? I was asking what I thought was a fair question. I said it wasn't to impugn anyone here. I figured I'd get people to agree with me and then say what they thought on the subject. Maybe I could have worded it better to say 'some' conservatives. But I asked because I noticed this thread went right to nuclear energy and lambasting carbon credits or anything like that.

too late now...you should lurk

200 MandyManners  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:17:17pm

re: #184 recusancy

Did you read my initial question? I was asking what I thought was a fair question. I said it wasn't to impugn anyone here. I figured I'd get people to agree with me and then say what they thought on the subject. Maybe I could have worded it better to say 'some' conservatives. But I asked because I noticed this thread went right to nuclear energy and lambasting carbon credits or anything like that.

Smearing a lot of people is asking a fair question?

201 Pepper Fox  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:17:34pm

Birth of New Species Witnessed by Scientists

[Link: www.wired.com...]

202 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:17:53pm

re: #182 ralphieboy

but if

Third time

Anything even remotely similar to that in free market countries

203 recusancy  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:18:06pm

re: #173 MandyManners

Did you read my No. 99?

I never said the guy's personal lifestyle is at fault and I hope he takes that with him to Dallas. I just meant the ideology that they espoused. If they changed mid course then I missed it. Republican Derangement Syndrome I guess.

204 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:18:53pm

re: #196 Sharmuta

Good place to start...linky this page kind of wanders around, but lots of good links therein

205 katemaclaren  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:18:57pm

re: #182 ralphieboy

I don't live very far from Limerick.

206 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:19:11pm

re: #188 Capitalist Tool

no need for that, but thanks anyway

I was raised to apologize when out of line.

207 ryannon  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:19:32pm

re: #182 ralphieboy

A Chernobyl is highly unlikely, but if something only half as disastrous were to happen, it would exceed current liability caps at least ten times over.

These liability caps are in effect, an indirect subsidy that totally distors the "free" market. That is my main problem with nuclear energy.

Sort that out and then I am all in favor of letting it compete with other power sources, but it could well prove cheaper to hire anuclear physicist to run a treadmill in your backyard than to generate energy that has cover the insurance costs of a nuclear facility.


When you factor in the costs of construction, re-treatment, decommissioning and depolutting the site (techniques as yet unknown), the cost of the kilowatt-hour becomes nearly incalculable.

208 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:19:44pm

re: #197 coscolo

I understand the recent retreat of the ice is exposing more and more Viking sites.

Thanks. ((maybe they were the type of Vikings that lived UNDER ice!?!?!?!?))
//

209 MandyManners  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:19:46pm

re: #203 recusancy

I never said the guy's personal lifestyle is at fault and I hope he takes that with him to Dallas. I just meant the ideology that they espoused. If they changed mid course then I missed it. Republican Derangement Syndrome I guess.

Crawford.

210 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:20:40pm

re: #203 recusancy

I never said the guy's personal lifestyle is at fault and I hope he takes that with him to Dallas. I just meant the ideology that they espoused. If they changed mid course then I missed it. Republican Derangement Syndrome I guess.

GAZE.

211 Pepper Fox  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:20:54pm

Instead of hosting a rally for his team political party, Keith Olbermann sponsors a free clinic for people who can't afford health insurance.

[Link: www.dailykostv.com...]

212 albusteve  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:20:54pm

re: #198 Obdicut

I try my absolute best to never call anyone a name. I do say that I think people are being silly, or hyperbolic, or unfair, or any number of other things.

It's the difference between telling someone that they are stupid, or they are acting stupid.

you lost me this morning when you got rude with Walter, and you still have not answered his question...not once was he uncivil toward you

213 brookly red  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:20:57pm

re: #207 ryannon

When you factor in the costs of construction, re-treatment, decommissioning and depolutting the site (techniques as yet unknown), the cost of the kilowatt-hour becomes nearly incalculable.

security? don't forget security...

214 katemaclaren  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:21:09pm

re: #197 coscolo

That's true. My son is an archeo and antro-logist. He's working at some site in the Shetlands right now, but he specializes in Vikings. You should see his coin collection. Wow. (our hedge against inflation)

215 recusancy  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:21:16pm

re: #209 MandyManners

Crawford.

He sold the Crawford place when he moved to Dallas right?

216 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:21:21pm

re: #212 albusteve

you lost me this morning when you got rude with Walter, and you still have not answered his question...not once was he uncivil toward you

I'm sorry, what question was I asked this morning by Walter?

217 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:21:24pm

re: #205 katemaclaren

I don't live very far from Limerick.

There once was a girl from Nantucket

,,,

//

218 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:21:34pm

re: #206 Sharmuta

I was raised to apologize when out of line.

Well, I apologize, too.
I wasn't listening to that little voice at the time, the one that said "no, just say Hello Shar"
I screw up a lot. Please forgive me.

219 AK-47%  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:21:41pm

re: #202 sattv4u2

but if

Third time

Anything even remotely similar to that in free market countries

and again - the chances of that are highly unlikely.

But I am not talking about Chernobyl in particular, I am talking about an indirect market subsidy in the form of liability caps, which artificially lower the cost of generating nuclear energy by keeping insurance costs low.

220 katemaclaren  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:22:25pm

re: #211 Pepper Fox

I don't believe it.
///

221 katemaclaren  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:22:55pm

re: #217 sattv4u2

LOL!

222 albusteve  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:23:27pm

re: #216 Obdicut

I'm sorry, what question was I asked this morning by Walter?

go back and look...I'm not a babysitter...you are a noob and you come here and fuck around with him like that, I don't appreciate it

223 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:23:29pm

re: #219 ralphieboy

and again - the chances of that are highly unlikely.

But I am not talking about Chernobyl in particular, I am talking about an indirect market subsidy in the form of liability caps, which artificially lower the cost of generating nuclear energy by keeping insurance costs low.


Better recheck your 148!
Must have gotten away from you!
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

224 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:23:40pm

OT : The wanton corporatist running dogs at the Washington Post have the temerity to point out that Medicare will be gutted under Pelosicare.

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

A plan to slash more than $500 billion from future Medicare spending -- one of the biggest sources of funding for President Obama's proposed overhaul of the nation's health-care system -- would sharply reduce benefits for some senior citizens and could jeopardize access to care for millions of others, according to a government evaluation released Saturday.

The report obviously uses math 1.0 to show that cutting $500 billion from medicare will mean that there is $500 billion less that will go to medicare. These corporate media whores obviously don't know about math 2.0 where a $500 billion cut actually ends up creating 30 jobs in Arizona's district 15.

/

225 katemaclaren  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:23:45pm

re: #215 recusancy

You're kidding, right?

226 Cato the Elder  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:23:57pm

re: #48 recusancy

Why is it that any form of conservation such as maybe driving a smaller/slower car then you'd like or recycling is scoffed at?

I scoff at driving a smaller car because my giant gas-sucker has less than 50k on it and although it would have qualified as a "clunker" because of its combined average MPH rating 1) it's paid for, 2) in perfect mechanical condition, 3) I feel safe in it, 4) it cruises nicely at 90 MPH with no loss of mileage performance, 5) it looks like an unmarked state police cruiser so dimsums in Priuses get the fuck out of my way when they see me coming up behind them at 90 MPH, 6) I couldn't rightly see turning in a perfect car to be destroyed just for $4,500 when I'd still have to be making payments, 7) it was made in America, 8) the sound system kicks ass, 9) I get to park it in "hybrids-only" spaces at Whole Foods and cheese off the politically correct, and 10) my insurance premiums just went down.

I don't scoff at anything anyone else chooses to drive, except 1) when I see a poor fool in a Smart Car slipstreaming behind an 18-wheeler on the highway and looking like he wears Depends to deal with the fear or 2) when a Prius prick refuses to get out of my way in the fast lane even though he's already doing 12 miles over the limit and I flash my lights at him. For that, I have a sun-visor emergency flasher light that I can turn on to scare him into submission.

As far as I know, there are no "conservative élites" here. You might want to check in with RNC.com or whatever it's called.

With regard to recycling, I do it if it doesn't involve more than rinsing, but it's a patch, a bandage, a feel-good activity. Someone on Facebook just boasted of having "recycled" his oak leaves. Mooph.

227 AK-47%  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:24:21pm

re: #213 brookly red

security? don't forget security...

Yes, that is another topic. how much of our Homeland Security budget is devoted to maintaining the security of nuclear plants against terrorist attack?

And even without terrorists or human error, there is plate tectonics

[Link: www.allbusiness.com...]

228 ryannon  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:24:21pm

re: #213 brookly red

security? don't forget security...

What security? Homer Simpson? Security is a negligible cost compared to the other aforementioned high-ticket expenses.

229 Pepper Fox  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:24:26pm

re: #215 recusancy

He sold the Crawford place when he moved to Dallas right?

He's living in a gated neighborhood in Dallas that's actually pretty moderate for the area, but still so exclusive it didn't even allow blacks in until the mid 1980s, so I've read. As for selling his Crawford ranch I'm not sure. I live at the former air base turned tech school he flew Air Force One in and out of, as it is the closest runway that can accommodate a 747 and support aircraft such as the C5. I haven't seen him around since the election but he could be using the regional airport now and a small jet.

230 MandyManners  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:24:33pm

re: #215 recusancy

He sold the Crawford place when he moved to Dallas right?

I wasn't aware he'd sold it.

231 katemaclaren  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:24:42pm

re: #224 karmic_inquisitor

You have given me the laugh of the day!!! Running dogs...hahahaha.

232 Cato the Elder  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:24:50pm

re: #177 sattv4u2

re: #112 Walter L. Newton

Hey ,, if the three of us ever get together we can match age spots!

Isn't there a game now - "Age-Spot Poker"?

233 Pepper Fox  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:25:16pm

re: #228 ryannon

What security? Homer Simpson? Security is a negligible cost compared to the other aforementioned high-ticket expenses.

You can get tours through the Ukrainian government to see the city.

234 Velvet Elvis  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:25:43pm

re: #168 ralphieboy

All run by human beings, who make human errors.

Once again, we cap our liability for nuclear disasters at less than $1billion in the West, the cost of Chernobyl was over 20 billion.

The point is that if nuclear plants were to be held liable for all their potential damages and not just a fraction, the costs of insuring them would be prohibitively high.

Considering the potential damages of burning coal includes the extinction of the human race, I don't think that liability is exactly covered either.

235 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:25:54pm

re: #232 Cato the Elder

Isn't there a game now - "Age-Spot Poker"?

Shut up you. My head still hurts trying to figure out the Roman Numberals!!!

///

(ya youngster, you!!!)

236 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:26:12pm

re: #222 albusteve

go back and look...I'm not a babysitter...you are a noob and you come here and fuck around with him like that, I don't appreciate it

You are accusing me of something that I didn't, in fact, do. I believe you're simply mixing me up with someone else. If it's the thread where the question was "What has Barack Obama actually achieved?" Walter did not, in fact, ask me that question. I did jump in and answer that one good thing Obama achieved was appointing Huntman as ambassador to China; I have no idea if somehow that's fucking around with him, to you. It was honest; I think that Huntsman was a good appointment and it's something Obama did.


You're accusing me of something and failing to back it up. I don't think that's a good way to behave.

237 albusteve  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:26:27pm

re: #226 Cato the Elder

if I recall Ka'Toa drives a big assed Continental...just get the fuck outa the way! and don't argue about it...

238 brookly red  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:26:41pm

re: #228 ryannon

What security? Homer Simpson? Security is a negligible cost compared to the other aforementioned high-ticket expenses.

it shouldn't be...

239 recusancy  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:26:45pm

re: #230 MandyManners

I wasn't aware he'd sold it.

I don't know if he did. I know he was planning to. Not sure if it happened.

240 AK-47%  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:27:42pm

re: #223 sattv4u2

Better recheck your 148!
Must have gotten away from you!
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

go back to 127 and you will see what I was originally on about, namely about the enormous discrepancy between legal liability limits and the potential costs of a nuclear disaster.

241 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:27:50pm

re: #204 Capitalist Tool

Good place to start...linky this page kind of wanders around, but lots of good links therein

Interesting site. I'll go back and read the article you pointed out, but I first looked at their about page, then their myths and facts page. Seems they're legit. I liked the piece on Lord Christopher Monckton and this quote from Thatcher:

"The danger of global warming is as yet unseen, but real enough for us to make changes and sacrifices so that we do not live at the expense of future generations".

242 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:28:18pm

re: #215 recusancy

He sold the Crawford place when he moved to Dallas right?

Can't say whether President Bush sold his ranch, but if a ranch ever came into my possession, my heirs would have to sell it, 'cause they'd have to drag me off it.

243 Cato the Elder  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:28:19pm

re: #237 albusteve

if I recall Ka'Toa drives a big assed Continental...just get the fuck outa the way! and don't argue about it...

Dat's mah cah!

244 katemaclaren  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:29:09pm

re: #234 Conservative Moonbat

I moved to England expecting to see FOG--nope. They stopped burning soft coal and all the thick-as-pea soup foggy days ended. London fog is now not so common--and certainly not so thick when it does make an appearance for some winter tourists.

245 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:29:31pm

re: #241 Sharmuta

Interesting site. I'll go back and read the article you pointed out, but I first looked at their about page, then their myths and facts page. Seems they're legit. I liked the piece on Lord Christopher Monckton

Now there's somebody I would be upset if Obama bowed to.

246 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:30:34pm

re: #240 ralphieboy

go back to 127 and you will see what I was originally on about, namely about the enormous discrepancy between legal liability limits and the potential costs of a nuclear disaster.

Thats nice. So ,, have you come up yet with anything even remotely similar to Chernobyl in free market countries?

(fourth request, btw)

247 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:30:41pm
248 ryannon  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:30:42pm

re: #233 Pepper Fox

You can get tours through the Ukrainian government to see the city.

Great place to spend your holidays...

Image: 1112658766.jpg

249 Pepper Fox  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:30:47pm

//Hooray I hit 200 karma points, how do I cash them in for jazz music or a t-shirt?

250 keithgabryelski  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:31:00pm

re: #184 recusancy

Did you read my initial question? I was asking what I thought was a fair question. I said it wasn't to impugn anyone here. I figured I'd get people to agree with me and then say what they thought on the subject. Maybe I could have worded it better to say 'some' conservatives. But I asked because I noticed this thread went right to nuclear energy and lambasting carbon credits or anything like that.

the question may have been reasonable but when asked in this forum in that way, it was seen as accusation -- why? because this forum doesn't fall into the "conservatives that aren't thoughtful about conservatism" which your question begged it to be.

You have a prejudice about this forum and its participants that doesn't fit reality.

Some people, here, have asked you to go back to lurking -- I'd simply ask that if you want to engage someone in conversation, start from a premise that allows for everyone to be correct until the specifics of their positions are proven to be theirs and shown to be incorrect, and no one fits into a pigeon-holed political sphere.

251 MandyManners  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:31:28pm

More on Al Gore's hypocrisy.


It's really interesting around three minutes into it.

252 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:31:33pm

re: #249 Pepper Fox

//Hooray I hit 200 karma points, how do I cash them in for jazz music or a t-shirt?

Give me your VISA Credit Card # including the security code # on the back and I'll have one shipped to you real soon!

253 albusteve  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:31:48pm

re: #236 Obdicut

You are accusing me of something that I didn't, in fact, do. I believe you're simply mixing me up with someone else. If it's the thread where the question was "What has Barack Obama actually achieved?" Walter did not, in fact, ask me that question. I did jump in and answer that one good thing Obama achieved was appointing Huntman as ambassador to China; I have no idea if somehow that's fucking around with him, to you. It was honest; I think that Huntsman was a good appointment and it's something Obama did.

You're accusing me of something and failing to back it up. I don't think that's a good way to behave.

you accused me of ODS for simply stating my opinion...Walter asked you to define his accomplishments and why I was worthy of ODS...in turn you needed to bust Walter and thereafter avoided his simple question...I'm done with you...you can fuck off now, your dodge is pretty lame

254 Velvet Elvis  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:32:05pm

re: #247 karmic_inquisitor

OT: Bill Maher - I'm not an anti-vaxer, I'm just asking questions.

out his ass

255 brookly red  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:32:06pm

re: #249 Pepper Fox

//Hooray I hit 200 karma points, how do I cash them in for jazz music or a t-shirt?

the t-shirt is 2 thousand points... be patient

256 Pepper Fox  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:32:24pm

re: #248 ryannon

Great place to spend your holidays...

[Link: www.animalpicturesarchive.com...]

I actually love that crap, I used to be in to the urban exploration hobby before it got to risky and couldn't find the time for it anymore. If there was anything else to do in the wasteland that is eastern Europe I would go.

257 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:32:31pm

Want to fight global warming and cut your cooling bill?

Whitewash your tile roof.

Low cost. Big impact.

258 Pepper Fox  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:33:15pm

re: #255 brookly red

the t-shirt is 2 thousand points... be patient

Do I get a harrier jet at 7,000,000 700,000,000?

259 AK-47%  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:33:29pm

re: #246 sattv4u2

Thats nice. So ,, have you come up yet with anything even remotely similar to Chernobyl in free market countries?

(fourth request, btw)


Since you need to hear it, no there is not.

But there is not a single plant in the world that is 100% safe from a disaster that could greatly exceed the amount for which it insured.

And that, again is the problem I have with nuclear energy. let it compete at its real cost, including insurance, security and decomissioning and see how long it lasts.

260 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:33:34pm

re: #257 karmic_inquisitor

Want to fight global warming and cut your cooling bill?

Whitewash your tile roof.

Low cost. Big impact.

I bought a new A/C unit. Did my part.

261 recusancy  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:33:57pm

re: #250 keithgabryelski

the question may have been reasonable but when asked in this forum in that way, it was seen as accusation -- why? because this forum doesn't fall into the "conservatives that aren't thoughtful about conservatism" which your question begged it to be.

You have a prejudice about this forum and its participants that doesn't fit reality.

Some people, here, have asked you to go back to lurking -- I'd simply ask that if you want to engage someone in conversation, start from a premise that allows for everyone to be correct until the specifics of their positions are proven to be theirs and shown to be incorrect, and no one fits into a pigeon-holed political sphere.

Thank you for your respectful explanation. I do have a prejudice but by being here I'm trying to empathize and understand another position.

262 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:34:06pm

re: #253 albusteve

you accused me of ODS for simply stating my opinion...Walter asked you to define his accomplishments and why I was worthy of ODS...in turn you needed to bust Walter and thereafter avoided his simple question...I'm done with you...you can fuck off now, your dodge is pretty lame

No, you really are mixing me up with someone else.

PT Barnum

Walter asked him, PT Barnum, not I, to define his accomplishments.

And, as I said, I did jump in and say that one accomplishment of Obama's was the appointment of Huntsman.

263 MandyManners  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:34:08pm

Back home in Tennessee, safely ensconced in his suburban Nashville home, Vice President Al Gore is no doubt basking in the Oscar awarded to "An Inconvenient Truth," the documentary he inspired and in which he starred. But a local free-market think tank is trying to make that very home emblematic of what it deems Gore's environmental hypocrisy.

Armed with Gore's utility bills for the last two years, the Tennessee Center for Policy Research charged Monday that the gas and electric bills for the former vice president's 20-room home and pool house devoured nearly 221,000 kilowatt-hours in 2006, more than 20 times the national average of 10,656 kilowatt-hours.


SNIP

264 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:34:09pm

re: #251 MandyManners

More on Al Gore's hypocrisy.

[Video]

It's really interesting around three minutes into it.

No way I'm sitting through 3 SECONDS of a Gore video, let alone 3 minutes!

265 brookly red  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:34:09pm

re: #258 Pepper Fox

Do I get a harrier jet at 7,000,000 700,000,000?

no

266 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:34:40pm

re: #261 recusancy

Thank you for your respectful explanation. I do have a prejudice but by being here I'm trying to empathize and understand another position.

Your first post didn't show any attempt at empathy or desire to understand, in the least.

267 MandyManners  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:35:00pm

re: #264 sattv4u2

No way I'm sitting through 3 SECONDS of a Gore video, let alone 3 minutes!

He doesn't speak.

268 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:35:11pm

re: #247 karmic_inquisitor

OT: Bill Maher - I'm not an anti-vaxer, I'm just asking questions.

Maher is Glenn Beck now?

269 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:35:26pm

re: #259 ralphieboy

But there is not a single plant in the world that is 100% safe

NAme me a single electrical/ coal/ natural gas storage/ etc etc plant that is 100% safe!

270 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:35:45pm

re: #267 MandyManners

He doesn't speak.

Does he appear?

271 katemaclaren  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:36:58pm

I'm starving. 'Night all.

272 ghazidor  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:37:11pm

re: #240 ralphieboy

go back to 127 and you will see what I was originally on about, namely about the enormous discrepancy between legal liability limits and the potential costs of a nuclear disaster.

And I suppose that the owners of LNG tankers are required to carry 10 billion or more in liability insurance in case their tanker should blow up in a some city's harbor?

Who friggin cares about liability insurance, your really stretching to make this an issue.

273 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:37:25pm

re: #271 katemaclaren

I'm starving. 'Night all.

I thought you were Kate!

274 Cato the Elder  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:37:45pm

re: #257 karmic_inquisitor

Want to fight global warming and cut your cooling bill?

Whitewash your tile roof.

Low cost. Big impact.

That is huge. In Baltimore where I lived till recently the average roof is slightly slanted (virtually flat) and covered in tar. Every few years you have to get the tar replaced.

They have found that whitewashing on top of the tar reduces cooling costs in the summer by up to 40% percent.

Duh. Absorption vs. reflection. Newton.

275 MandyManners  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:38:02pm

re: #270 sattv4u2

Does he appear?

His vehicles do.

276 katemaclaren  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:38:03pm

re: #268 Sharmuta

That's funny! ...and on that note. I'm really headed for the left over pasta from Vincenzo's and a glass of my Robert Mondavi Merlot.

277 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:38:12pm

Interesting read Capitalist Tool, although the NASA link I found there was more valuable in your specific point about soot.

Concerning your original comment, though- it's not just an increase in air temp, it's also the ocean temps increasing. The soot is a very interesting aspect, though, and I thank you for bringing it to my attention.

278 katemaclaren  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:38:16pm

re: #273 sattv4u2

Very funny! ;-)

279 MandyManners  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:38:17pm

re: #271 katemaclaren

I'm starving. 'Night all.

Bon apetite.

280 recusancy  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:38:19pm

re: #266 Obdicut

Your first post didn't show any attempt at empathy or desire to understand, in the least.

I said I'm prejudiced. I truly don't see, in my real life, conservation from conservatives. I live in a pretty conservative town too. So I guess I stated the question poorly.

281 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:38:25pm

re: #275 MandyManners

His vehicles do.

Is he IN them !?!?!

282 albusteve  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:38:45pm

re: #262 Obdicut

No, you really are mixing me up with someone else.

PT Barnum

Walter asked him, PT Barnum, not I, to define his accomplishments.

And, as I said, I did jump in and say that one accomplishment of Obama's was the appointment of Huntsman.

you're right, I have you confused with someone else...I apologize, pass me a napkin please...I fucked up

283 keithgabryelski  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:40:34pm

re: #259 ralphieboy

And that, again is the problem I have with nuclear energy. let it compete at its real cost, including insurance, security and decomissioning and see how long it lasts.

It is a misunderstanding of nuclear power to consider it any more dangerous than other power systems if you take all of these things into account and include the impact to the environment.

284 MandyManners  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:40:40pm

re: #281 sattv4u2

Is he IN them !?!?!

JUST WATCH THE GOSHDARN THING!

285 really grumpy big dog johnson  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:40:44pm

re: #4 Sharmuta

That's almost 23 feet, folks.

In order for the sea level to rise that much, Greenland's 1.7 million acres of ice would have to average roughly 6000 feet thick (ASL), and melt completely.

Is it really that thick on average? Rising water levels means reduced land, which means additional water must cover the additional land.

Odds on that happening in the next 10,000 years?

You don't want my opinion.

286 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:40:49pm

Buy a new energy efficient whazzat to tool around in? No thanks.
I'll drive my '93 Silverado around 'til she just falls over.

287 albusteve  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:40:50pm

re: #280 recusancy

I said I'm prejudiced. I truly don't see, in my real life, conservation from conservatives. I live in a pretty conservative town too. So I guess I stated the question poorly.

'conservation' is hardly a bipartisan concept...to assume it is would be shortsighted

288 ryannon  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:40:52pm

re: #256 Pepper Fox

I actually love that crap, I used to be in to the urban exploration hobby before it got to risky and couldn't find the time for it anymore. If there was anything else to do in the wasteland that is eastern Europe I would go.

Then you'll love this. Actually, a fascinating piece:

[Link: www.kiddofspeed.com...]

289 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:41:03pm

re: #280 recusancy

I said I'm prejudiced. I truly don't see, in my real life, conservation from conservatives. I live in a pretty conservative town too. So I guess I stated the question poorly.

More than poorly. And there are plenty of conservatives, historical and present, who are environmentalists. John Huntsman, for example, to use someone who's name is already floating around. Charlie Crist, of Florida.

290 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:41:17pm

re: #284 MandyManners

JUST WATCH THE GOSHDARN THING!

LOL!!!

291 Velvet Elvis  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:41:59pm

re: #263 MandyManners

Back home in Tennessee, safely ensconced in his suburban Nashville home, Vice President Al Gore is no doubt basking in the Oscar awarded to "An Inconvenient Truth," the documentary he inspired and in which he starred. But a local free-market think tank is trying to make that very home emblematic of what it deems Gore's environmental hypocrisy.


SNIP

FWIW, that home is also the headquarters for his non-profit. He uses it for $1000 a plate fundraising dinners and that kind of thing. Seriously, where is he supposed to hold receptions for visiting foreign dignitaries (and yes, he still gets them) the banquet room at the Holiday Inn?

Like it or not, the man is a former vice president of the United States, former US Senator, and one time presidential candidate. He needs a house fitting someone of that position for official purposes

292 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:42:00pm

re: #282 albusteve

you're right, I have you confused with someone else...I apologize, pass me a napkin please...I fucked up

It's okay, and kudos to you to admitting error. I won't hold it against you. I do agree that PT Barnum dodged and vacillated all over the place in that thread, and I wouldn't want to be confused with him.

No harm, no foul.

293 Pepper Fox  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:42:06pm

re: #288 ryannon

Then you'll love this. Actually, a fascinating piece:

[Link: www.kiddofspeed.com...]

Yeah I read that when it first popped up, it's actually a hoax. She made it look like a ride through on her bike, but turns out she just went on the gov't sponsored tour.

294 AK-47%  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:42:22pm

re: #269 sattv4u2

But there is not a single plant in the world that is 100% safe

NAme me a single electrical/ coal/ natural gas storage/ etc etc plant that is 100% safe!

re: #269 sattv4u2

Take me to task over the whole statement, not just a part of it:

But there is not a single plant in the world that is 100% safe from a disaster that could greatly exceed the amount for which it insured.

Ther are limits to what can go wrong if a conventional power plant expereinces a catastophic faillure. These can be covered by current liability limits. The potential for damage from a nuclear plant is considerably greater and potentially not covered by existing liability limits.

295 albusteve  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:42:23pm

re: #289 Obdicut

More than poorly. And there are plenty of conservatives, historical and present, who are environmentalists. John Huntsman, for example, to use someone who's name is already floating around. Charlie Crist, of Florida.

GWB...check out his ranch pad

296 albusteve  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:42:55pm

re: #292 Obdicut

It's okay, and kudos to you to admitting error. I won't hold it against you. I do agree that PT Barnum dodged and vacillated all over the place in that thread, and I wouldn't want to be confused with him.

No harm, no foul.

I owe you a beer...maybe two

297 borgcube  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:42:59pm

Desalination. Nuclear. Buy future waterfront property now for cheap in Yuma. Greenland should have lots of new real estate opportunities as well. Go with the flow so to speak.

298 MandyManners  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:43:39pm

re: #291 Conservative Moonbat

FWIW, that home is also the headquarters for his non-profit. He uses it for $1000 a plate fundraising dinners and that kind of thing. Seriously, where is he supposed to hold receptions for visiting foreign dignitaries (and yes, he still gets them) the banquet room at the Holiday Inn?

Like it or not, the man is a former vice president of the United States, former US Senator, and one time presidential candidate. He needs a house fitting someone of that position for official purposes

Those dignitaries need a heated pool?

299 gDavid  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:43:46pm

Where was all the water when Greenland was GREEN???

300 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:44:17pm

re: #285 really grumpy big dog johnson
Greenland's mountains

301 MandyManners  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:44:25pm

re: #299 gDavid

Where was all the water when Greenland was GREEN???

In bed.

302 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:44:38pm

re: #294 ralphieboy

Fair enough

But there is not a single plant in the world that is 100% safe from a disaster that could greatly exceed the amount for which it insured.

NOW

NAme me a single electrical/ coal/ natural gas storage/ etc etc plant that is 100% safe!

AND ,,, have you found that Chrnobyl-like disaster in a free market country YET!?!?

((I have to go soon!!!))

303 albusteve  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:45:15pm

re: #297 borgcube

Desalination. Nuclear. Buy future waterfront property now for cheap in Yuma. Greenland should have lots of new real estate opportunities as well. Go with the flow so to speak.

desalination is another of my pet slamfesta subjects...it's crucial to get deep into this technology...hello?

304 harrisam  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:45:28pm

This is just a question/ thought. Has anyone in the scientific community looked at the possibility that the earth underneath the Greenland Ice Sheet has warmed up. Considering the vents & geothermal energy that Iceland displays & uses & the research on Yellowstone, a warming earth in the area is not out of the question, is it?

305 recusancy  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:45:56pm

re: #289 Obdicut

More than poorly. And there are plenty of conservatives, historical and present, who are environmentalists. John Huntsman, for example, to use someone who's name is already floating around. Charlie Crist, of Florida.

You mean Crist who's about to be kicked out of the party?

306 albusteve  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:46:07pm

re: #301 MandyManners

In bed.

Vikings invented the water bed...

307 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:46:50pm

re: #305 recusancy

You mean Crist who's about to be kicked out of the party?

Why would he get kicked out?

308 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:47:09pm

re: #291 Conservative Moonbat

FWIW, that home is also the headquarters for his non-profit. He uses it for $1000 a plate fundraising dinners and that kind of thing. Seriously, where is he supposed to hold receptions for visiting foreign dignitaries (and yes, he still gets them) the banquet room at the Holiday Inn?

Like it or not, the man is a former vice president of the United States, former US Senator, and one time presidential candidate. He needs a house fitting someone of that position for official purposes

I hope you just forgot the sarc tag?
We have had ex-Presidnts/ Vice Pres/ Senators living in WAY smaller digs and they seem to be getting along just fine WITHOUT lecturing us on what WE have to do about energy usage!

309 MandyManners  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:47:17pm

re: #305 recusancy

You mean Crist who's about to be kicked out of the party?

Link?

310 Velvet Elvis  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:47:27pm

re: #298 MandyManners

Those dignitaries need a heated pool?

Beats me. I'm pretty sure he doesn't even live there much anymore. It's just his political HQ. I think he spends most of his time in the Bay Area.

311 recusancy  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:47:52pm

re: #307 Cannadian Club Akbar

Why would he get kicked out?

I don't mean literally. He going to be Scozzafava'd.

312 MandyManners  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:48:14pm

re: #310 Conservative Moonbat

Beats me. I'm pretty sure he doesn't even live there much anymore. It's just his political HQ. I think he spends most of his time in the Bay Area.

So, where does he host all those dignitaries in San Francisco?

313 MandyManners  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:48:27pm

re: #311 recusancy

I don't mean literally. He going to be Scozzafava'd.

Link?

314 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:48:34pm

re: #218 Capitalist Tool

Well, I apologize, too.
I wasn't listening to that little voice at the time, the one that said "no, just say Hello Shar"
I screw up a lot. Please forgive me.

Not a big deal. Next time you call me "dear" I promise I will take it as a term of endearment.

315 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:48:56pm

re: #311 recusancy

I don't mean literally. He going to be Scozzafava'd.

OK. Why would that happen to Crist, though?

316 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:48:57pm

re: #305 recusancy

You mean Crist who's about to be kicked out of the party?

I think he'll survive any primary challenge-- I hope he does. He's one of the few politicians I actually like. I differ from him on many issues, but I believe he actually feels a call to service and honestly does the best he can for his constituency.

And that has nothing to do with what your question was, which was about conservatives. Christ, kicked out of the GOP, would still be a conservative.

317 mr.JA  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:48:57pm

re: #12 Sharmuta


"seems unlikely to me...maybe a few feet...how can they calculate this number?"

It's called science and math. You have 1.7 million square kilometers of ice. They can calculate how much water that is and how much the sea level will rise based on the added water.

No, if you melt ice water, the initial water level will remain the same as before - Archimedes found that out a while ago.

The 'initial' part above is however the most important bit, the biggest factor in sea-level rises is temperature. Water is most dense at 4 degrees C, and expands when it warms. If a lot of water warms, even by a few degrees, this add a LOT of volume. Remember that 2/3 of this rock is covered with water. Now the greenland ice keeps the water around there Very Cold. If it melts, it isn't Very Cold, but probably just Cold - this could have a big impact on sea levels...
Ice melt on the Antarctic however, would be directly additive - that ice rests on land and doesn't float on water like Greenland. If Antarctica ice starts to melt (I don't know if it does) then sea levels will rise even more.

318 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:49:26pm

re: #297 borgcube

Desalination. Nuclear. Buy future waterfront property now for cheap in Yuma. Greenland should have lots of new real estate opportunities as well. Go with the flow so to speak.

Yeah- screw New York and Florida and New Orleans. ///

319 ryannon  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:49:28pm

re: #293 Pepper Fox

Yeah I read that when it first popped up, it's actually a hoax. She made it look like a ride through on her bike, but turns out she just went on the gov't sponsored tour.

Not necessarily. Google Elena Filatova hoax and there's nothing conclusive there. And then there's this from the website hosting her report:

"July 7, 2004
First let me say that I have nothing to do with this project other than donating the bandwidth to allow the world to see it. When I first saw the site, Angelfire could not handle the amount of traffic the site was receiveing. I knew my server could. Then Angelfire began plastering the site with banner ads shamelessly trying to make money off the site. This is the point at which Elena shut the site down, not because she had anything to hide.

Regardless of what is true, this site has certainly made people think more about Chernobyl and this tragic disaster.

However, this story has been there for years and has been primarily forgotten and neglected.

After "Elena" brought this story to light, everyone that claims to be an expert has come forward identifying it as a hoax or a fraud.

How ironic that although they would label her a hoax and a fraud, she was able to achieve what they could not even dream of achieving. Bringing this issue the world wide attention it deserves.

As the only email contact, I have seen each of the moving emails that were directed to "Elena." Her words have definitely made the world think about this piece of forgotten history. I have seen every request from news agencies from around the world, each of the big names, begging for interviews.

"Elena" wanted nothing to do with these interviews.

I offered to setup a paypal donate account to create a fund for the project and local charities.

"Elena" Wanted nothing to do with it.

Did she do it for fame or notoriety or even money?

Or did she do it in order to bring attention to a forgotten region.

Read her words and decide for yourself.

320 keithgabryelski  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:49:32pm

re: #309 MandyManners

Link?

He means this:

[Link: www.politico.com...]

The club for growth is pouncing on him.

321 SixDegrees  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:49:37pm

re: #81 recusancy

Well... I guess I was speaking to the Republican elites. The FOX news crowd. I figured there be at least one here who thought that way. Guess not. Just 8 years of Bushies saying that it's Americans god given right to consume as much and live however the hell they want. Which is fine (government shouldn't be telling anybody how to live) but it doesn't sound like conservation to me.

So, you're trolling for stereotypes, and - disappointed, I suppose, because you're not having much luck - keep inventing new ones to fill the void.

322 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:49:39pm

re: #312 MandyManners

So, where does he host all those dignitaries in San Francisco?

C'Mon, MAndy

THINK

He hires private jets to fly them to Tennessee!!

Ggggeeezzz!!

323 albusteve  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:49:59pm

re: #291 Conservative Moonbat

FWIW, that home is also the headquarters for his non-profit. He uses it for $1000 a plate fundraising dinners and that kind of thing. Seriously, where is he supposed to hold receptions for visiting foreign dignitaries (and yes, he still gets them) the banquet room at the Holiday Inn?

Like it or not, the man is a former vice president of the United States, former US Senator, and one time presidential candidate. He needs a house fitting someone of that position for official purposes

in other words, he is a liberal elitist, above the behaviors he demands from us peons?...bwahahahaha!...I don't fall for that tripe, I don't care he is...he's no better man than me

324 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:50:24pm

re: #318 Sharmuta

Yeah- screw New York and Florida and New Orleans. ///

HEY!!!
//

325 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:50:31pm

re: #306 albusteve

Vikings invented the water bed...

Do you know why the Vikings quit invading other countries?

There were goal lines on all the borders. :D

326 borgcube  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:51:12pm

re: #303 albusteve

We're about to get one going here in San Diego County. Of course, it took years and years of litigation going up against, you guessed it, the same enviro-twits that keep yelping we're going to be underwater in a few decades or worse unless we act NOW and fork over tons of our prosperity to third world cesspools.

Can't win with those folks. No nuclear. No desal. Shit, they're even fighting against solar panels in the freaking desert. It's one of the reasons I'm on the skeptical side of the whole global warming thing. Follow the money. Always. I truly think some of these nuts will not be happy unless we all start living like the Unabomber.

327 MandyManners  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:51:34pm

Oven's buzzing. bbl

328 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:51:39pm

re: #317 mr.JA

Uh- Greenland's ice is ON LAND.

329 Velvet Elvis  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:52:11pm

re: #312 MandyManners

So, where does he host all those dignitaries in San Francisco?

I think he comes back to Nashville for that. I'm in Nashville and semi-active in various political crap and this is just what I hear on the grapevine.

330 SixDegrees  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:52:56pm

re: #317 mr.JA

No, if you melt ice water, the initial water level will remain the same as before - Archimedes found that out a while ago.

The 'initial' part above is however the most important bit, the biggest factor in sea-level rises is temperature. Water is most dense at 4 degrees C, and expands when it warms. If a lot of water warms, even by a few degrees, this add a LOT of volume. Remember that 2/3 of this rock is covered with water. Now the greenland ice keeps the water around there Very Cold. If it melts, it isn't Very Cold, but probably just Cold - this could have a big impact on sea levels...
Ice melt on the Antarctic however, would be directly additive - that ice rests on land and doesn't float on water like Greenland. If Antarctica ice starts to melt (I don't know if it does) then sea levels will rise even more.

Uh - the ice in Greenland is on land.

331 Racer X  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:53:45pm

The oceans will rise 27 feet?

Really?

332 AK-47%  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:54:12pm

Sattv4u2

#302

(cannot get quote to work)

First off, I am not any sort of anti-nuke idealist, I just want to see it compete with other sources of energy without a distorted market.

Please read the whole quote again: current liability caps can cover a disaster at a convetinoal plant.

The chances of a Chernobyl are negligible but not 100% impossible.

The costs of insuring such a possibility would be enormous and make nuclear energy less competitive on the market. That was my point all along, not that we should shut them all down tomorrow.

333 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:54:52pm

re: #331 Racer X

The oceans will rise 27 feet?

Really?

Yes. Florida will be gone. Stock up on OJ now.
/

334 albusteve  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:54:52pm

re: #328 Sharmuta

Uh- Greenland's ice is ON LAND.

right, I think he has it backwards

335 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:54:59pm

re: #304 harrisam

This is just a question/ thought. Has anyone in the scientific community looked at the possibility that the earth underneath the Greenland Ice Sheet has warmed up. Considering the vents & geothermal energy that Iceland displays & uses & the research on Yellowstone, a warming earth in the area is not out of the question, is it?


That's a good question. Probably little effect overall.
There is quite a bit of undersea volcanic activity in the Arctic ocean/Northern Pacific right now, but haven't seen numbers to suggest that geothermal venting plays anything other than a minor role in melting Arctic sea ice.
Still, Greenland is right close to Iceland, which exists thanks to Vulcan.

Beats me... too many variables involved in the whole debate.
Anytime anyone tells me, from either side of the debate, that "The debate is settled", all I can think of is Al Gore.

336 albusteve  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:56:17pm

re: #325 Sharmuta

Do you know why the Vikings quit invading other countries?

There were goal lines on all the borders. :D

that damned Viking, Fran Tarkenton managed to find them anyway...I hated that pillager

337 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:56:29pm

re: #314 Sharmuta

Not a big deal. Next time you call me "dear" I promise I will take it as a term of endearment.

so, can has my spankin' now?

338 Pepper Fox  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:56:31pm

re: #332 ralphieboy

Sattv4u2

#302

(cannot get quote to work)

First off, I am not any sort of anti-nuke idealist, I just want to see it compete with other sources of energy without a distorted market.

Please read the whole quote again: current liability caps can cover a disaster at a convetinoal plant.

The chances of a Chernobyl are negligible but not 100% impossible.

The costs of insuring such a possibility would be enormous and make nuclear energy less competitive on the market. That was my point all along, not that we should shut them all down tomorrow.

I'm all for nuclear power and solar but I'm a bigger advocate for small generators on a wide scale, like small wind generators on houses that feed excess power back in to the grid.

339 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:56:31pm

re: #331 Racer X

The oceans will rise 27 feet?

Really?

Yes- and that's just Greenland. We haven't discussed Antarctica yet.

340 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:57:00pm

re: #331 Racer X

re: #333 Cannadian Club Akbar

NOTE TO SELF

Always ask for the 4th floor or higher when checking into a hotel!

341 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:57:07pm

re: #335 Capitalist Tool

I know we have geologist lizards. They would know. Can't remember who they are, though.

342 albusteve  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:57:39pm

re: #326 borgcube

We're about to get one going here in San Diego County. Of course, it took years and years of litigation going up against, you guessed it, the same enviro-twits that keep yelping we're going to be underwater in a few decades or worse unless we act NOW and fork over tons of our prosperity to third world cesspools.

Can't win with those folks. No nuclear. No desal. Shit, they're even fighting against solar panels in the freaking desert. It's one of the reasons I'm on the skeptical side of the whole global warming thing. Follow the money. Always. I truly think some of these nuts will not be happy unless we all start living like the Unabomber.

wheelbarrows...that's the future

343 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:58:09pm

re: #341 Cannadian Club Akbar

I know we have geologist lizards. They would know. Can't remember who they are, though.

I'm not one, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express!

344 albusteve  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:58:37pm

re: #333 Cannadian Club Akbar

Yes. Florida will be gone. Stock up on OJ now.
/

there are no orange trees in Florida...just condos for aging death panelites

345 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:58:40pm

re: #333 Cannadian Club Akbar

Yes. Florida will be gone. Stock up on OJ now.
/

Support a kibbutz- buy Israeli oranges.

You could Buy Palestinian oranges too, if they weren't such a bunch of screw- ups.

346 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:59:22pm

re: #341 Cannadian Club Akbar

I know we have geologist lizards. They would know. Can't remember who they are, though.

They're all out drillin'

347 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:59:36pm

re: #341 Cannadian Club Akbar

I know we have geologist lizards. They would know. Can't remember who they are, though.

Coralce is in planetary science, but I haven't seen him in a long time. :(

348 spare o'lake  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 3:59:51pm

7 metres...
.
.
.
.
*thud*

349 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:00:36pm

re: #332 ralphieboy

So you're pissed that the cost of the product (electricity) is artificially deflated because there are caps on the liability ins. of something that doesn't happen! (except Chernobyl!)

350 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:01:34pm

I am currently 3 feet above sea level.

351 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:01:44pm

re: #347 Sharmuta

Coralce is in planetary science, but I haven't seen him in a long time. :(

Speaking of "haven't seen in a long time", has Salamantis been around? I used to like to parry with him on things!

352 ryannon  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:01:45pm

No free nuclear lunch:

[Link: madrad2002.wordpress.com...]

353 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:02:06pm

re: #350 Cannadian Club Akbar

I am currently 3 feet above sea level.

Get off you knees and stand up!

354 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:03:17pm

re: #351 sattv4u2

Speaking of "haven't seen in a long time", has Salamantis been around? I used to like to parry with him on things!

Not sure what happened to Sal either.

355 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:04:24pm

re: #354 Sharmuta

Not sure what happened to Sal either.

I did take time off. What ever happened to JamesTKirk?

356 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:05:18pm

re: #355 Cannadian Club Akbar

He went to the stalker blog...

357 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:06:07pm

Ah well

Going to take a little nap. Have to be to work at midnight!

Cya

358 ghazidor  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:06:18pm

re: #311 recusancy

I don't mean literally. He going to be Scozzafava'd.

Yeah, RSM already announced he is coming to Florida to help support Rubio against Crist, I expect that the other tea party notables will follow suit. I still believe that Crist will win the primary anyway, but not before a lot of mudslinging and name calling occurs. The Republicans are going to give themselves a black eye, again, damn.

359 albusteve  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:06:35pm

re: #350 Cannadian Club Akbar

I am currently 3 feet above sea level.

I'm at exactly 5000 ft here at the beautiful valley of the Rio Grande...ole!

360 RogueOne  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:08:33pm

Anyone here been following the Cory Maye case in Mississippi?

361 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:09:58pm

re: #358 ausador

Ant thoughts on a new gubner? Sink or McCollum?

362 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:10:50pm

re: #361 Cannadian Club Akbar

Any=ant, PIMF

363 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:12:48pm

re: #358 ausador

Yeah, RSM already announced he is coming to Florida to help support Rubio against Crist, I expect that the other tea party notables will follow suit.

They have such a great track record, what with hoffman's win and all.

Oh wait. RSM is the kiss of death much like kos. Crist should welcome his support for his opponent.

364 Racer X  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:13:55pm

27 feet.

I'm having a hard time with that one. if that comes about - even if it takes 200 years - mankind will cease to exist as we know it. Some of us will grow flippers or something.

Party on, Garth!

365 RogueOne  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:18:34pm

re: #363 Sharmuta

agreed. The problem is Crist is a pro-stimulus republican and they don't have a very long shelf life. It looks like he's already learned his lesson but it's going to be hard to get people to believe him.

[Link: www.miamiherald.com...]

FTA:


Last week Crist told reporters he didn't know Obama was traveling in Florida. On Wednesday, Crist told a national television audience he didn't endorse the $787 billion federal stimulus bill pushed by Obama and passed by Congress in February.

``I didn't endorse it,'' Crist told CNN host Wolf Blitzer. ``I - you know, I didn't even have a vote on the darned thing. But I understood that it was going to pass and I wanted to be able to utilize it for the benefit of my fellow Floridians.''

This, from the same man who skipped a Florida Cabinet meeting to campaign with Obama for the stimulus in Fort Myers in February? Who went on national talk shows and across the state selling the plan?

As the interview continued, Crist got on a roll.

``You know, unfortunately, the president thinks that everything we need to do for every problem that comes along is spend more money and that's just wrong,'' he said.

``Frankly, enough is enough. And I know that the people understand that. And I understand it. And I understand it because I'm the grandson of a Greek immigrant who came to this country with nothing, really taught me the value of a dollar, because his first job in America, in Altoona, Pa., was shining shoes for a living for $5 a month.''

Crist's comments about the stimulus startled conservatives, Democrats, and frankly, us, who all remember things differently.

366 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:18:38pm

re: #350 Cannadian Club Akbar

I am currently 3 feet above sea level.

When time comes, get the heck to high ground. You have some time to plan your escape route.

Remember that F5 tornado which hit the OKC metro in May, '99? Winds over 300mph? It destroyed/severely damaged maybe 10,000 homes and other buildings, yet fewer than 50 people died in that monster, or the 50+ other tornadoes spawned from the hell of that same storm.
At least one entire town disappeared... R.I.P. Mulhall.
People can get the hell out of Dodge, with enough warning, even when it's just half an hour.
Never could figure out what the deal was with Katrina.
Around here, when they tell us a bad one's coming, people pay attention.

367 ghazidor  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:21:33pm

re: #361 Cannadian Club Akbar

Ant thoughts on a new gubner? Sink or McCollum?

So far McCollum has the name recognition advantage and is ahead by 10 points in the polls, but Sink will be a popular candidate if the campaign is well run. Could be an interesting match-up, looks like it might get very competitive. Personally I actually like Sink even with the (D), past experience with McCollum has not impressed me at all.

368 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:23:02pm

re: #366 Capitalist Tool

When time comes, get the heck to high ground. You have some time to plan your escape route.

Remember that F5 tornado which hit the OKC metro in May, '99? Winds over 300mph? It destroyed/severely damaged maybe 10,000 homes and other buildings, yet fewer than 50 people died in that monster, or the 50+ other tornadoes spawned from the hell of that same storm.
At least one entire town disappeared... R.I.P. Mulhall.
People can get the hell out of Dodge, with enough warning, even when it's just half an hour.
Never could figure out what the deal was with Katrina.
Around here, when they tell us a bad one's coming, people pay attention.

I'm at 8200 feet.

369 Ian MacGregor  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:32:38pm

re: #5 albusteve

I'm all for nuclear energy, but we may have a uranium shortage.

[Link: www.technologyreview.com...]

One of the arguments against nuclear power was that the discharge of the water used to cool them caused an unacceptable increase in the temperature of the lake or river at the discharge site.

370 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:32:55pm

re: #50 avanti

Here's one of the first to go..

Actually, no. The article merely talks about the president preparing for the possibility. What I was looking for is an article that says, "[This Island] used to be 3.5 feet above sea level at the highest point, not it is only 2.6 feet above sea level."

371 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:43:45pm

re: #368 Walter L. Newton

I'm at 8200 feet.

Aren't you over by Evergreen?

372 Cato the Elder  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:45:44pm

re: #368 Walter L. Newton

I'm at 8200 feet.

How do cigars burn at that altitude?

373 ghazidor  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:49:09pm

re: #370 Noam Sayin'

Actually, no. The article merely talks about the president preparing for the possibility. What I was looking for is an article that says, "[This Island] used to be 3.5 feet above sea level at the highest point, not it is only 2.6 feet above sea level."

Like this?

Over the last century, sea levels have risen about 20 centimetres (8 in);[12][13] further rises of the ocean could threaten the existence of Maldives, being the lowest country in the world, with a maximum natural ground level of only 2.3 metres (7 ft 7 in), with the average being only 1.5 metres (4 ft 11 in) above sea level.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

374 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:50:00pm

EPA Sea Level Rise Reports

There's also this thing called google

375 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:55:12pm

re: #373 ausador

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

can just see it all now... Maldivian restaurants all over the place

376 ghazidor  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:59:55pm

re: #375 Capitalist Tool

can just see it all now... Maldivian restaurants all over the place

I hope not, they are a hard core Muslim Sultanate where following Islam is legally required of all citizens. Hopefully they can just stay right where they are...

377 Ian MacGregor  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:05:11pm

re: #317 mr.JA

I attended a talk by Steven Chu. He said that rise in sea levels is now more attributable to melting ice than to thermal expansion. Yes the same Dr. Chu who heads the U.S. Department of Energy.

378 Ian MacGregor  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:08:19pm

re: #374 Sharmuta

We can measure it via satellite. It's one way to detect El Nino's.

379 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:08:58pm

re: #378 Ian MacGregor

We can measure it via satellite. It's one way to detect El Nino's.

Don't tell me. I wasn't the one asking about info on sea level rise.

380 Bagua  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:09:35pm

re: #332 ralphieboy

Sattv4u2

The chances of a Chernobyl are negligible but not 100% impossible.

Chernobyl is irrelevant, that type of reactor is not being build anymore anywhere in the world.

381 Bagua  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:10:44pm

re: #354 Sharmuta

Not sure what happened to Sal either.

There was a pile on attack on Salamatis with lots of crude insults, he hasn't been back since.

382 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:51:52pm

re: #381 Bagua

Thanks. That's some... interesting reading.

383 Cineaste  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 6:26:20pm

re: #65 albusteve

who are these people anyway?

Clark County, Nevada.

384 MinisterO  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 6:41:42pm

re: #81 recusancy

Well... I guess I was speaking to the Republican elites. The FOX news crowd. I figured there be at least one here who thought that way. Guess not. Just 8 years of Bushies saying that it's Americans god given right to consume as much and live however the hell they want. Which is fine (government shouldn't be telling anybody how to live) but it doesn't sound like conservation to me.

Way to push the hot buttons there. I imagine it was the "8 years of Bushies" part that made their heads explode.

385 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 6:55:18pm

So just to reiterate, this is not new news.

I have been posting about the fact that Greenland and the Arcitc are going much faster than models might predict for some time here.

The fact of the matter is, when people want to talk about the inadequacies of the models, they fail to mention that the models are usually too low ball.

If you go through the science links, I have posted about six papers to this effect.

What I hope that people take from this is that not only is the problem quite real, but it is looking worse than many of our nastiest projections.

386 Lateralis  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 7:03:27pm

re: #23 Diamond Bullet

He never left college. Most of the stuff he spews I heard in my Sociology graduate program before everyone had to go out into the real world and make a living. Most people that don't go to college or grow up when they leave college, know that a Utopian world does not exist nor will it ever.

387 so.cal.swede  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 7:05:10pm

Whether the temperature rise is due to human involvement or not, i think we can all agree that it was pretty dumb of humans to settle areas right next to the oceans. sooner or later it's going to rise. Same goes for places like India.. soon it will get shoved under the Eurasian Plate and be nothing but magma!

Then we have the planet earth! what were we thinking? Every 150 million years it passes through an arm of the milky way and all life is eradicated by the radiations! IDIOTS!

388 claire  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 7:28:27pm

re: #304 harrisam

This is just a question/ thought. Has anyone in the scientific community looked at the possibility that the earth underneath the Greenland Ice Sheet has warmed up. Considering the vents & geothermal energy that Iceland displays & uses & the research on Yellowstone, a warming earth in the area is not out of the question, is it?

Can't vouch for this website, but here you go-

389 steve  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 8:20:34pm

Why is it called Greenland?

390 freetoken  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 8:24:30pm

re: #389 steve

Why is it called Greenland?

Because the Vikings were the forerunners of those we today call "Realtors"?

391 steve  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 8:30:07pm

re: #390 freetoken

Because the Vikings were the forerunners of those we today call "Realtors"?

I like that! Reminds me of why we have condos.

Realtors need to make more sale so they had to come up with a con to get some dough.

392 ryannon  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 8:35:27pm

re: #380 Bagua

Chernobyl is irrelevant, that type of reactor is not being build anymore anywhere in the world.

No, but dozens just like them are still being operated in former Soviet republics and throughout Eastern Europe.

[Link: www.insc.anl.gov...]

393 claire  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 10:36:56pm

re: #392 ryannon

From your link- it's interesting- All their reactors have safety standards that are lower than the US has, but all the Chernobyl type reactors have been upgraded to add containment that the article says is generally regarded as sufficient to prevent another Chernobyl-like explosion. Well, that's good! Reactors in the US have already been tested (3-mile Island) and have proven to stay contained. So that's good too.

394 Claire  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 11:16:10pm

I'm with this guy on Nuclear:

Needed: 100 New Nuclear Plants in 20 Years

395 Bagua  Tue, Nov 17, 2009 11:57:37pm

re: #392 ryannon

No, but dozens just like them are still being operated in former Soviet republics and throughout Eastern Europe.

Right, the point being that it is irrelevant to consider or refer to the Chernobyl disaster when talking about adding new nuclear power plants in the US, or even in Russia for that matter.

396 Jimbouie  Wed, Nov 18, 2009 4:31:24am

re: #81 recusancy

Well... I guess I was speaking to the Republican elites. The FOX news crowd. I figured there be at least one here who thought that way. Guess not. Just 8 years of Bushies saying that it's Americans god given right to consume as much and live however the hell they want. Which is fine (government shouldn't be telling anybody how to live) but it doesn't sound like conservation to me.

When did they say that? Any links?

397 funky chicken  Wed, Nov 18, 2009 5:41:18am

re: #18 recusancy

So you're open to storing the spent fuel in your backyard?

Yucca Mountain isn't in anybody's backyard. My parents live in Las Vegas, and they are all for Yucca Mountain.

398 funky chicken  Wed, Nov 18, 2009 5:47:30am

re: #326 borgcube

We're about to get one going here in San Diego County. Of course, it took years and years of litigation going up against, you guessed it, the same enviro-twits that keep yelping we're going to be underwater in a few decades or worse unless we act NOW and fork over tons of our prosperity to third world cesspools.

Can't win with those folks. No nuclear. No desal. Shit, they're even fighting against solar panels in the freaking desert. It's one of the reasons I'm on the skeptical side of the whole global warming thing. Follow the money. Always. I truly think some of these nuts will not be happy unless we all start living like the Unabomber.

yep

399 ryannon  Wed, Nov 18, 2009 5:59:26am

re: #393 claire

From your link- it's interesting- All their reactors have safety standards that are lower than the US has, but all the Chernobyl type reactors have been upgraded to add containment that the article says is generally regarded as sufficient to prevent another Chernobyl-like explosion. Well, that's good! Reactors in the US have already been tested (3-mile Island) and have proven to stay contained. So that's good too.

I'm not sure we're reading the same article:

"Three generations of RBMK reactors are operating in the former Soviet Union: 11 units in Russia, two in Ukraine and two in Lithuania. Despite improvements to the RBMK design since the Chernobyl accident, concerns remain about these reactors, especially the first-generation ones."

Follows paragraph after paragraph of the deficiencies in first, second and third-generation VVER reactors. Not a pretty picture as far as I'm concerned; others may find it negligible or unimportant. Point is, even under optimum circumstances, nuclear power is a disaster waiting to happen.

400 phrogdriver  Wed, Nov 18, 2009 6:10:24am

Here's why according to Al Gore on the Conan show:

Conan: ... to create energy, and it sounds to me like an evil plan by Lex Luthor to defeat Superman. Can you, can you tell me, is this a viable solution, geothermal energy?

Al: It definitely is, and it's a relatively new one. People think about geothermal energy -- when they think about it at all -- in terms of the hot water bubbling up in some places, but two kilometers or so down in most places there are these incredibly hot rocks, 'cause the interior of the earth is extremely hot, several million degrees, and the crust of the earth is hot ...


Most scientist believe the core is 6,000 degrees C. Al puts it at several million which means global warming is spreading to the core.

401 b_snark  Wed, Nov 18, 2009 6:53:26am

re: #122 recusancy

I don't have the links... But

Fleicher was asked at a briefing if the president thought Americans need to cut conserve and buy smaller more fuel efficient vehicles. He responded with an unequivocal NO.

9/11 happened. Country was ready to sacrifice. We were asked to shop.

Hannity scoffs at the idea of not driving a large SUV.

Here you go. It was during a June 17,2001 press conference.

[Link: www.perrspectives.com...]
[Link: web.archive.org...]

Q: Is one of the problems with this, and the entire energy field, American lifestyles? Does the President believe that, given the amount of energy Americans consume per capita, how much it exceeds any other citizen in any other country in the world, does the President believe we need to correct our lifestyles to address the energy problem?

MR. FLEISCHER: That's a big no. The President believes that it's an American way of life, and that it should be the goal of policy makers to protect the American way of life. The American way of life is a blessed one. And we have a bounty of resources in this country. What we need to do is make certain that we're able to get those resources in an efficient way, in a way that also emphasizes protecting the environment and conservation, into the hands of consumers so they can make the choices that they want to make as they live their lives day to day.

.


Before you go making claims, have the links at hand, and please do not lump the conservatives here in with the wingnut faction. I spent 2 years at FR and I can tell you that LGF is highly rational and nothing like FR

402 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Nov 18, 2009 10:41:41am

re: #62 Rightwingconspirator

look up Ludwigs contributions. He has posted the best links to catch up on the science of AGW. Unless somebody logged in now has them maybe...?
He's gonna love this thread.

I would have too if I hadn't have been working all night!

403 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Nov 18, 2009 10:42:01am

re: #402 LudwigVanQuixote

Ohh And RWC, Thanks!

404 claire  Wed, Nov 18, 2009 1:25:18pm

re: #399 ryannon

I'm not sure we're reading the same article:

"Three generations of RBMK reactors are operating in the former Soviet Union: 11 units in Russia, two in Ukraine and two in Lithuania. Despite improvements to the RBMK design since the Chernobyl accident, concerns remain about these reactors, especially the first-generation ones."

Follows paragraph after paragraph of the deficiencies in first, second and third-generation VVER reactors. Not a pretty picture as far as I'm concerned; others may find it negligible or unimportant. Point is, even under optimum circumstances, nuclear power is a disaster waiting to happen.

Concerns remain about these reactors...Yes, but none of the concerns are about another Chernobyl occurring as the escape of radioactive materials has been mitigated by adding containment to these types of reactors- there are concerns about the safety of other styles of reactors over there as well, but not Chernobyl disaster level concerns as those styles aren't capable of having a Chernobyl type release anymore.

There are 100's of reactors running on earth ALREADY- The United States adding 100 more of the latest and greatest technology is not going to increase the risk of a Chernobyl like disaster because the designs will not allow those conditions to ever exist in the first place. Other things could happen, but it won't be a large explosion and radioactive release from overheating.

405 claire  Wed, Nov 18, 2009 1:33:31pm

re: #400 phrogdriver

Millions of degrees! He is obviously confusing the core temp of the Earth with the core temp of the Sun. Al Gore is such a dumbass. He really is.

406 phrogdriver  Thu, Nov 19, 2009 10:16:18am

Another article from Spiegel...

Climatologists Baffled by Global Warming Time-Out
[Link: www.spiegel.de...]

407 Sacred Plants  Fri, Nov 20, 2009 11:56:26am

The meteorological argument could go on forever without reaching a definitive conclusion, since this is the nature of meteorological arguments. Unfortunately, the budgetary argument does not have this feature: How can it be explained to future generations that finite resources were squandered at the rate they are? How many more generations will be able to consume fossile carbon or planetary uranium in the current quantities until they get scarce? Or does this mean the contemporaries do not believe humanity might really grow that old? How can the generations who inherit a looted planet come to look back on the present as anything else than a bubble that burst, to the surprise of everyone who only noticed how its outside was mirroring the weather?


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Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT
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Detroit Local Powers First EV Charging Road in North America The road, about a mile from Local 58's hall, uses rubber-coated copper inductive-charging coils buried under the asphalt that transfer power to a receiver pad attached to a car's underbelly, much like how a phone can be charged wirelessly. ...
Backwoods Sleuth
3 days ago
Views: 187 • Comments: 1 • Rating: 4