“Today Now!” is one of the Onion’s more brutal media parody shows, and this is one of their more brutal episodes.
flashvars=”image=http%3A%2F%2ftheonion.com%2Fcontent%2Ffiles%2Fimages%2FET_ALIEN_ARTICLE_11_12.jpg&videoid=99276&title=Boy%20Finds%20Own%20Real-Life%20E.T.”
1 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Nov 22, 2009 12:38:20pm |
An actor's agent calls her and says..."Hey, you look like E.T.! Have I got a gig for you!"
| 2 |
freetoken Sun, Nov 22, 2009 12:38:38pm |
Vicious.
Reminds me of a certain society in which I live...
| 3 |
William of Orange Sun, Nov 22, 2009 12:39:00pm |
Do we think it's funny or do we see a hidden xenofobe message here? Same counts for the last episode of South Park. Cartman suddenly discovers HE is the minority among others.
South Park Studios official site.
| 4 |
Charles Johnson Sun, Nov 22, 2009 12:40:52pm |
re: #3 William of Orange
Do we think it's funny or do we see a hidden xenofobe message here? Same counts for the last episode of South Park. Cartman suddenly discovers HE is the minority among others.
South Park Studios official site.
I don't think the message is hidden.
| 6 |
Velvet Elvis Sun, Nov 22, 2009 12:45:49pm |
It's definitely making fun of anti-immigrant paranoia.
Can anyone translate what she's saying btw?
| 7 |
Irenicum Sun, Nov 22, 2009 12:47:38pm |
Unbelievable. Onion does it again. It's like Onion has a private line to our cultural id.
| 8 |
freetoken Sun, Nov 22, 2009 12:49:07pm |
re: #7 Irenicum
I look to the artists (which includes the performing arts) for both insight and comment... much more productive than looking to the academics and the pundits.
| 9 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 12:52:22pm |
re: #7 Irenicum
Unbelievable. Onion does it again. It's like Onion has a private line to our cultural id.
And a deep-seated hatred of white people and white culture.
| 10 |
Irenicum Sun, Nov 22, 2009 12:53:16pm |
re: #8 freetoken
Indeed. Comedians and musicians seem to be able to see into our deeper, and often darker, impulses. But then again, sometimes they're just idiots too. But this piece exposes a cultural tendency that is, I believe, spot on.
| 11 |
Irenicum Sun, Nov 22, 2009 12:57:15pm |
re: #9 Cato the Elder
Great Beck reference! His id is out there for the world to see and it ain't pretty!
| 12 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 12:59:45pm |
And no, my dog doesn't know enough about our Founding Fathers. He thinks Common Sense is a book by Glenn Beck. And like Sharmuta, he thinks the Declaration of Independence can safely be ignored when weighing the original intent of the Constitution.
I keep whacking him on the nose with a rolled up Declaration, but he only snarls at me.
[no dogs were harmed in the making of this snark]
| 13 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:02:36pm |
re: #12 Cato the Elder
[no dogs were harmed in the making of this snark]
Nor was there anything comedic nor prescient about it either!
| 14 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:04:07pm |
| 15 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:05:03pm |
re: #14 Cato the Elder
"
"Prescient."
I don't think that word means what you think it means.
I don;'t think your snark was called for, so there you have it
| 16 |
ryannon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:05:03pm |
I thought it was both clever satire and not the least bit xenophobic.
Does this mean I have to go to the re-education-camp?
| 18 |
ryannon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:07:58pm |
I forgot to add, and not anti-white folks either.
| 19 |
fizzlogic Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:07:59pm |
It looks to me FNC got a segment tape mixed up with The Onion's again.
| 20 |
Irenicum Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:08:07pm |
re: #16 ryannon
I took it as being anti-xenophobic satire. That's what makes it so clever.
| 21 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:09:23pm |
re: #18 ryannon
I forgot to add, and not anti-white folks either.
Not all white folks. Just the significant subset who call brown people "ETs" and "Wookies".
| 22 |
ryannon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:09:42pm |
re: #20 Irenicum
I took it as being anti-xenophobic satire. That's what makes it so clever.
I can't say that I disagree with you there.
| 23 |
Charles Johnson Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:12:58pm |
(... hoping I don't have to ask again to knock off the back and forth bickering ...)
| 24 |
ryannon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:14:04pm |
re: #21 Cato the Elder
Not all white folks. Just the significant subset who call brown people "ETs" and "Wookies".
Some people always objectify other people with derogatory labels. In general, they're idiot slimeball douchebag asshats.
Of course, I try to avoid such ignorant behavior myself.
| 25 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:17:40pm |
re: #9 Cato the Elder
Deep seated hatred? Just don't see it. Willing to skewer a few excesses, sure. Satirically. And while its hazardous and likely to be misunderstood satire does get some room to work, artistic license. Ever seen Dave Chappelles supreme satire?
Warning-Biting Satire in the link.
| 26 |
ryannon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:18:59pm |
More biting language. Sensitive souls be warned.
| 27 |
Achilles Tang Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:21:50pm |
re: #23 Charles
(... hoping I don't have to ask again to knock off the back and forth bickering ...)
Hmmm.. that was a feather light trigger. Would I be right in assuming I've missed something?
| 28 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:25:49pm |
re: #27 Naso Tang
No, it wasn't feather light. There have been horrid things said here lately. Waaay beyond snark.
Thanks to our Host.
| 29 |
ghazidor Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:26:16pm |
re: #27 Naso Tang
Hmmm.. that was a feather light trigger. Would I be right in assuming I've missed something?
I can think of three very relevant threads in the last several days, they were rage-tastic. I can feel the grudges hardening from here...
| 30 |
Achilles Tang Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:27:27pm |
re: #28 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
No, it wasn't feather light. There have been horrid things said here lately. Waaay beyond snark.
Thanks to our Host.
I saw some a few days ago. I meant this thread. But, enough said..
| 31 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:29:28pm |
The music in Glenn Beck's head...
Sheeple Of Amerika
| 32 |
freetoken Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:29:46pm |
Since xenophobia is the topic du jour, went over to see what Pat. B. is up to... His "Dumbo University" essay is up on Townhall.
Of course on his own site the comments to that essay are what one would expect of a VDARE favorite - topics of race and IQ and all of that.
In the Townhall comments are some real winners too...
What a moral cesspool the "right" has become (if indeed it is "becoming" and not always been that way.)
| 34 |
ryannon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:32:40pm |
re: #28 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
No, it wasn't feather light. There have been horrid things said here lately. Waaay beyond snark.
Thanks to our Host.
You mean that Charles is exercising thought-control on us?
Shit. The least he could do is give me funnier things to say.
| 35 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:32:58pm |
| 36 |
Pepper Fox Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:33:20pm |
re: #32 freetoken
Since xenophobia is the topic du jour, went over to see what Pat. B. is up to... His "Dumbo University" essay is up on Townhall.
Of course on his own site the comments to that essay are what one would expect of a VDARE favorite - topics of race and IQ and all of that.
In the Townhall comments are some real winners too...
What a moral cesspool the "right" has become (if indeed it is "becoming" and not always been that way.)
But everyone knows you can only be moral with religion and all religious people are moral, if you pick the right one! /
| 37 |
Pepper Fox Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:33:31pm |
| 38 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:35:08pm |
| 39 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:36:29pm |
re: #32 freetoken
Interesting. Real Clear Politics and the Christian News Service (CNS) are also publishing that one. It also seems to be a hit with Tea Party sites like "Tree Of Liberty".
| 40 |
ghazidor Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:36:53pm |
As half Hispanic in origin myself I declare a vendetta upon the onion for their blatant racism and cultural insensitivity. My first act of retaliation will be to mail them a pecan pie with all the pecans removed, I will relish knowing the bitter disappointment they will feel when they open the box!
/
| 41 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:37:52pm |
| 42 |
SixDegrees Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:38:08pm |
re: #40 ausador
As half Hispanic in origin myself I declare a vendetta upon the onion for their blatant racism and cultural insensitivity. My first act of retaliation will be to mail them a pecan pie with all the pecans removed, I will relish knowing the bitter disappointment they will feel when they open the box!
/
You bastard!
| 43 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:39:49pm |
| 44 |
ryannon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:40:47pm |
re: #40 ausador
As half Hispanic in origin myself I declare a vendetta upon the onion for their blatant racism and cultural insensitivity. My first act of retaliation will be to mail them a pecan pie with all the pecans removed, I will relish knowing the bitter disappointment they will feel when they open the box!
/
Hispanics are ok in my book!
Can I have the pecans?
| 45 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:42:16pm |
| 46 |
freetoken Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:43:08pm |
re: #39 Killgore Trout
The depths of the moral vacuousness ought not be underestimated.
Here is a classic comment, from that Townhall thread discussing Buchanan's latest essay:
JD's Most Handsome Son
Location: OH
Reply # 126
Date: Nov 20, 2009 - 5:22 AM EST
Who Knew?
In the days of slavery it was illegal for anyone to educate slaves. The South feared a slave revolt if they were able to be educated.How tragic we had to have a devastating civil war over this issue when all the South had to do to keep their slaves was free them.
Yes, free them. They are predisposed to enslave themselves. Who knew they came with such a slave friendly option?
Today we spend so much of our wealth trying to teach them to count their fingers and understand a little of their own language and they refuse to do so. They prefer their ignorance and servitude. They even kill any of their own who dare try to learn. Amazing!
There are others that are worse.
This, on a site which is owned by and proudly announces its partnership with the so-called leading "Christian" blogs.
| 47 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:43:30pm |
re: #45 Cato the Elder
I stand corrected, now laughing as I can take a hint. :)
| 49 |
freetoken Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:47:04pm |
BTW, none other than Peter Brimelow has written a glowing review of Going Rogue... in which he reminds us that Palin was a Buchanan supporter in the 96 primary.
| 50 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:47:51pm |
re: #40 ausador
now i have a handful of pecans
| 51 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:48:52pm |
I got a haircut by a woman who didn't speak english a couple weeks ago. At least she knew when to stop. And yes, I am still good looking.
No sarc for the first two lines. / for the third.
| 52 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:51:59pm |
This story got no updings when I posted it to the spinoff links a couple of days ago. Oh well.
| 53 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:54:14pm |
re: #52 Mad Al-Jaffee
This story got no updings when I posted it to the spinoff links a couple of days ago. Oh well.
I made the bottom 10 and top 10 the other day. But I'm not here for the glory, just here for the hot chicks.
| 54 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:54:51pm |
re: #51 Cannadian Club Akbar
I got a haircut by a woman who didn't speak english a couple weeks ago. At least she knew when to stop. And yes, I am still good looking.
No sarc for the first two lines. / for the third.
Stop what?
Cutting your hair,
or not speaking English!?!?
| 55 |
Irenicum Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:55:22pm |
re: #46 freetoken
Nothing Christian about hate. Though I'd be the first to admit much hate has been sold under the Christian label. The internet seems to allow our worst instincts to run free. Anonymity unleashes a great deal that no one in their right mind would ever say in public.
| 56 |
TheMatrix31 Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:55:49pm |
re: #53 Cannadian Club Akbar
Bottom ten? Thats un-CCA-like!
| 58 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:57:28pm |
re: #56 TheMatrix31
Bottom ten? Thats un-CCA-like!
I guess some get offended when I call Al Gore a douchebag.
| 59 |
SixDegrees Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:58:11pm |
re: #58 Cannadian Club Akbar
I guess some get offended when I call Al Gore a douchebag.
It's an insult to douchebags.
| 60 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:58:44pm |
re: #53 Cannadian Club Akbar
I made the bottom 10 and top 10 the other day. But I'm not here for the glory, just here for the hot chicks.
Hiya Sailor...
| 61 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:59:27pm |
| 62 |
Vicious Babushka Sun, Nov 22, 2009 1:59:33pm |
re: #53 Cannadian Club Akbar
I made the bottom 10 and top 10 the other day. But I'm not here for the glory, just here for the hot chicks.
ManBearPig has swept the bottom 10.
| 64 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:01:06pm |
re: #62 Alouette
ManBearPig has swept the bottom 10.
Yep, he has. But let's not go there again unless Cato starts up again. For right now we leave it, because its a whole lot of ugly that we don't need.
| 66 |
ryannon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:01:47pm |
| 67 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:01:48pm |
re: #62 Alouette
ManBearPig has swept the bottom 10.
WOW!! I could see certain people sweeping the bottom, but, wow.
| 69 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:02:33pm |
re: #62 Alouette
I promised myself I won't read him anymore. I will succeed.
| 70 |
J.S. Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:03:52pm |
(I recall reading -- decades ago? -- one of the things that no religious teacher would ever be called to do --- that is, at the time of the birth of a child, to be required to call in the religious scholars and await a decree/speculation/determination as to whether or not the infant was human...lol)
| 71 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:03:59pm |
re: #65 TheMatrix31
Seriously?
Yep. I don't know who down dinged me and I don't care. So down ding this...
Al Gore is a douchebag
| 72 |
Irenicum Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:04:24pm |
re: #31 Killgore Trout
And btw, I have relatives who believe just about everything in that video. ugh.
| 73 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:04:28pm |
re: #53 Cannadian Club Akbar
I made the bottom 10 and top 10 the other day. But I'm not here for the glory, just here for the hot chicks.
Me too!
| 74 |
TheMatrix31 Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:04:36pm |
There were THREE brawls?
/Just a question, because I only saw the one I was involved in and the Ice Cap one
| 76 |
ryannon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:05:14pm |
| 77 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:05:46pm |
| 79 |
ghazidor Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:07:36pm |
re: #66 ryannon
Not quite.
[Link: www.freakingnews.com...]
You've revealed his excellancy Ahmadinejad's secret identity you fool!
/
| 80 |
jaunte Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:10:11pm |
re: #6 Conservative Moonbat
It's definitely making fun of anti-immigrant paranoia.
Can anyone translate what she's saying btw?
She's trying to tell them that her family is probably very worried about her, and at one point she calls the kid 'a monster'.
| 81 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:12:15pm |
re: #6 Conservative Moonbat
It's definitely making fun of anti-immigrant paranoia.
Can anyone translate what she's saying btw?
It's basic Spanish, which is part of the joke. Anyone now living in the USA with more than a brain stem knows what "mi casa" means and which language it is. And so the idea that this "strange looking little fellow" might be an alien is even more absurd.
She's saying things like "I know my family is worried about me" and "I want to go home"...
| 83 |
J.S. Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:13:47pm |
re: #80 jaunte
And with the boy becoming "the monster", it's another twist on "strange aliens"...
| 84 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:14:19pm |
re: #66 ryannon
Not quite.
[Link: www.freakingnews.com...]
SCENE ONE:
TELEPHONE RINGING
Our Hero answers the phone
ON THE PHONE:
SALMA: Hey, it's me, I'm coming over but for some reason I have a Billy Mays beard.
NEGATIV: Hmm. Do you also have a wang?
SALMA: No, just the beard.
NEGATIV: Well, I have a wang and a razor.
SALMA: On my way.
CLOSE-UP: REAR TIRES of late 70s Camero peels out as SALMA floors it
| 86 |
ryannon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:18:57pm |
re: #84 negativ
SCENE ONE:
TELEPHONE RINGING
Our Hero answers the phoneON THE PHONE:
SALMA: Hey, it's me, I'm coming over but for some reason I have a Billy Mays beard.
NEGATIV: Hmm. Do you also have a wang?
SALMA: No, just the beard.
NEGATIV: Well, I have a wang and a razor.
SALMA: On my way.
CLOSE-UP: REAR TIRES of late 70s Camero peels out as SALMA floors it
I never had a wang.
But I've learned to live with that.
[Link: images.google.com...]
| 87 |
Dr. Shalit Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:22:46pm |
Speech is free, Satire is satire, and this One is Bad Taste and Not Really Funny. -S-
| 88 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:23:03pm |
Cowboys vs. Raiders on Thanksgiving Day? Why does the NFL hate us?
| 90 |
TheMatrix31 Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:24:36pm |
re: #88 Cannadian Club Akbar
Not to mention Green Bay and Detroit.
At least Broncos/Giants should be good.
This Lions/Cowboys/Thanksgiving shit has GOT to stop.
| 91 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:25:18pm |
re: #88 Cannadian Club Akbar
Cowboys vs. Raiders on Thanksgiving Day? Why does the NFL hate us?
Well, since my idea of giving thanks has never included watching overpaid steroid addicts banging the crap out of each other, I'd have to say I really don't care.
| 92 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:27:14pm |
re: #86 ryannon
I never had a wang.
But I've learned to live with that.
This was my first: Your text to link...
Mine was "UPGRADED" to 128k, but I never had a graphics board. GREEN SCREEN CRT, and my first computer game was ZORK.
| 93 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:28:02pm |
re: #91 Cato the Elder
Well, since my idea of giving thanks has never included watching overpaid steroid addicts banging the crap out of each other, I'd have to say I really don't care.
K. And I give thanks every day and don't need a certain day to be forced to be with my family. So there.
/
| 94 |
ryannon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:30:17pm |
re: #92 negativ
This was my first: Your text to link...
Mine was "UPGRADED" to 128k, but I never had a graphics board. GREEN SCREEN CRT, and my first computer game was ZORK.
And all that for a mere four thousand or so of today's dollars!
| 95 |
tradewind Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:31:15pm |
Dither, dither, speech. Foreign trip, bow, reassure. Seminar, summit. Shoot a jump shot with the guys, throw out the first pitch in mom jeans. Compromise, concede, close the deal. Dither, dither, water down, news conference.
This condensed/reduced summary of Obama's presidency so far is shocking only for its source. Not Sarah Palin, not MM, not Dick Morris or Sean Hannity: No, this one's from The Cobra herself. He's on his way to toast for sure... [Link: www.nytimes.com...]
.
| 97 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:34:35pm |
re: #95 tradewind
I made a comment on Mo Do on a previous thread. I won't repeat it. It wasn't bad, just don't feel like typing.
| 98 |
freetoken Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:34:37pm |
BTW, the LGF entry downstairs (on the GOP call for revolution) made it to the NewsNow feed on the topic of "GOP".
| 99 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:35:19pm |
re: #70 J.S.
(I recall reading -- decades ago? -- one of the things that no religious teacher would ever be called to do --- that is, at the time of the birth of a child, to be required to call in the religious scholars and await a decree/speculation/determination as to whether or not the infant was human...lol)
It's already been done.
[Link: www.google.com...]
| 100 |
ryannon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:35:20pm |
re: #92 negativ
This was my first: Your text to link...
Mine was "UPGRADED" to 128k, but I never had a graphics board. GREEN SCREEN CRT, and my first computer game was ZORK.
Here you go, amigo. Happy trails!
[Link: thcnet.net...]
| 101 |
tradewind Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:36:43pm |
re: #97 Cannadian Club Akbar
I'll use my imagination.
Talk about your bitter clinger...///
| 102 |
tradewind Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:38:40pm |
re: #86 ryannon
A wang is useless without the dang doodle.
| 105 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:40:07pm |
re: #95 tradewind
This condensed/reduced summary of Obama's presidency so far is shocking only for its source. Not Sarah Palin, not MM, not Dick Morris or Sean Hannity: No, this one's from The Cobra herself. He's on his way to toast for sure... [Link: www.nytimes.com...]
.
But then she reverts back to foolishness:
On Afghanistan, Palin says, W-like, that the president should simply give Gen. Stanley McChrystal a blank check. But Afghanistan is a wrenching decision, and we do need the closest exit ramp. So the president should get credit for standing back and studying the issue, and for not rubber-stamping the generals’ predictable urge to surge. But the way he has handled the perception part has allowed critics — including generals — to cast him as indecisive.
McChrystal and Gen. David Petraeus should have been giving their best advice to Obama — and airing their view against scaling down in Afghanistan — in confidence. Instead, McChrystal pushed his opinion in a speech in London, and Petraeus has discussed his feelings in private sessions with reporters. This creates a “Seven Days in May” syndrome, where the two generals are, in effect, lobbying against the president and undercutting him as he’s trying to make a painfully complex, life-and-death decision.
This time, Obama should adopt Palin’s straight-from-the-gut approach, call the generals into the Oval and tell them, “Your pie-holes you will shut or rise higher you will not. Because, dang it, the president I am!”
Obama will not do as Maureen Dowd suggests. If he did, he'd likely simply receive Gen. Petraeus' resignation, which would hurt Obama far worse than it would hurt the general. Obama cannot be too harsh with those two generals, because the political fallout from dismissing either of them would be severe.
| 106 |
ryannon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:40:30pm |
re: #101 tradewind
I'll use my imagination.
Talk about your bitter clinger...///
Is that like a wang?
| 107 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:42:06pm |
re: #105 Dark_Falcon
Obama will not do as Maureen Dowd suggests. If he did, he'd likely simply receive Gen. Petraeus' resignation, which would hurt Obama far worse than it would hurt the general. Obama cannot be too harsh with those two generals, because the political fallout from dismissing either of them would be severe.
Speaking of ETs and such. Dowd makes the president sound like Yoda:
“Your pie-holes you will shut or rise higher you will not. Because, dang it, the president I am!”
| 108 |
tradewind Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:42:28pm |
re: #105 Dark_Falcon
Dowd's a female grinch with malice in her heart for anyone to the right of Aaron Sorkin (though heaven knows why, since he tossed her over for a crack pipe). Just saying that if she stops singing his praises, it's the first horseman.
| 109 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:43:06pm |
The Today Now about finding Halloween costumes for queer-acting kids that tone down their gayness is one of the best episodes I have ever seen :D
"Say hello, Travis."
"hello, Travis!"
| 111 |
ryannon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:44:35pm |
re: #109 WindUpBird
The Today Now about finding Halloween costumes for queer-acting kids that tone down their gayness is one of the best episodes I have ever seen :D
"Say hello, Travis."
"hello, Travis!"
"Goodnight, Gracie."
| 112 |
tradewind Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:44:48pm |
re: #107 Gus 802
The president looked like C 3Po when he did that quasi bob and shake in Japan.
It didn't outrage me. it made me laugh because it was just so wrong. You bow, or you shake. Not both.
I thought he was supposed to be the one so well versed in all things foreign-policy. One of his minders goofed there.
| 113 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:44:59pm |
re: #108 tradewind
Dowd's a female grinch with malice in her heart for anyone to the right of Aaron Sorkin (though heaven knows why, since he tossed her over for a crack pipe). Just saying that if she stops singing his praises, it's the first horseman.
Whoa. Sorkin hits the pipe? I didn't know this. I like his writing.
| 114 |
tradewind Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:45:38pm |
re: #111 ryannon
OMG, that scene in Birdcage where Robin Williams is trying to coach his partner on how to walk like a guy... funniest evah.
| 115 |
tradewind Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:46:12pm |
re: #113 Cannadian Club Akbar
He was actually busted. Think he pled it out in exchange for rehab.
| 116 |
freetoken Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:46:58pm |
As the world turns:
Creationism could be taught in schools under Tories, claims Ed Balls
Conservative plans to grant schools freedom from central control risk bringing the creationist doctrines of a “Religious Right” into the classroom, the Government warned last night.
I wonder if the Tories are going to let this issue take them over?
| 117 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:47:09pm |
re: #108 tradewind
Dowd's a female grinch with malice in her heart for anyone to the right of Aaron Sorkin (though heaven knows why, since he tossed her over for a crack pipe). Just saying that if she stops singing his praises, it's the first horseman.
That I can agree with. Glad to see you again, Matrix. You missed another blow-out last night.
| 118 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:47:54pm |
re: #116 freetoken
As the world turns:
Creationism could be taught in schools under Tories, claims Ed Balls
I wonder if the Tories are going to let this issue take them over?
Hopefully, its just a Liberal scare tactic.
| 119 |
TheMatrix31 Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:48:46pm |
re: #117 Dark_Falcon
I read that one. That's why I was asking. Someone mentioned there were THREE. Where was the other one?
| 120 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:48:48pm |
re: #117 Dark_Falcon
That I can agree with. Glad to see you again, Matrix. You missed another blow-out last night.
Another one? I was away from my computer.
| 121 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:48:48pm |
re: #112 tradewind
The president looked like C 3Po when he did that quasi bob and shake in Japan.
It didn't outrage me. it made me laugh because it was just so wrong. You bow, or you shake. Not both.
I thought he was supposed to be the one so well versed in all things foreign-policy. One of his minders goofed there.
I was looking up some of the protocols regarding hand shaking a couple of weeks ago. Too strong of a grip is frowned upon in those circles. Simple handshake works. I never like those 4 finger handshakes.
| 122 |
tradewind Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:48:51pm |
re: #117 Dark_Falcon
Kicking this one upthread to matrix...
| 123 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:49:30pm |
re: #88 Cannadian Club Akbar
Cowboys vs. Raiders on Thanksgiving Day? Why does the NFL hate us?
Oh! Seriously? A Cowboys fan but ACK!
| 124 |
freetoken Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:49:42pm |
re: #118 Dark_Falcon
Did you read the part following this:
There has already been bitter controversy over the policies of some existing Academies sponsored by prominent Evangelicals such as Sir Peter Vardy and Bob Edmiston, both of whom have made significant donations to the Conservative Party.
?
| 125 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:50:22pm |
re: #119 TheMatrix31
I read that one. That's why I was asking. Someone mentioned there were THREE. Where was the other one?
I don't know. I've only been in two of those firefights.
| 126 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:50:51pm |
re: #123 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Oh! Seriously? A Cowboys fan but ACK!
Hoops is a Raider fan. I hate both teams equally.
| 127 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:51:27pm |
re: #124 freetoken
Did you read the part following this:
?
Nope, but I'll do so now. I've got no use for creationism, wherever it shows its stupid face.
| 128 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:51:40pm |
re: #116 freetoken
As the world turns:
Creationism could be taught in schools under Tories, claims Ed Balls
I wonder if the Tories are going to let this issue take them over?
At the very least the Tories should realize that teaching creationism in UK schools is a slippery slope.
| 129 |
tradewind Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:52:37pm |
re: #128 Gus 802
Teaching creationism in the UK?
Allahbunchahooey/ ach /barf.
| 130 |
TheMatrix31 Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:53:22pm |
re: #125 Dark_Falcon
Ugh. Good thing I wasn't around when it was live.
| 131 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:53:45pm |
re: #129 tradewind
Teaching creationism in the UK?
Allahbunchahooey/ ach /barf.
Yeah, it's spreading like a virus.
| 132 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:54:17pm |
re: #128 Gus 802
At the very least the Tories should realize that teaching creationism in UK schools is a slippery slope.
The UK has a lot of Imams that would probably teach it for free. So does Detroit.
| 133 |
freetoken Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:54:46pm |
re: #128 Gus 802
The risk they are running is that the Tories are turning to donors who have an agenda that is very similar to the Religious Right here in the US. I'm just wondering if the Tories are going to go down the path of the GOP. There are plenty of "conservatives" in the UK who lament the Tories' centrist positions on several matters.
| 135 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:55:55pm |
re: #132 Decatur Deb
The UK has a lot of Imams that would probably teach it for free. So does Detroit.
That's whom I was alluding to. Interesting thing I heard the other day. I am not sure if I remember the exact figure but I recall hearing that 80% of the Imams in Europe are on public assistance. The author used the word welfare.
| 136 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:55:58pm |
re: #130 TheMatrix31
Ugh. Good thing I wasn't around when it was live.
Me neither. Still, as soon as anything happens in the matter of bringing KSM to trial, we'll be right back at it again. But for now I'm happy for the respite.
| 137 |
tradewind Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:57:36pm |
re: #125 Dark_Falcon
You mean another ugly jump?
I wasn't here last night. I always miss the good stuff.
Was it as bad as the diva-off of a few nights ago?
| 138 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:58:06pm |
re: #135 Gus 802
That's whom I was alluding to. Interesting thing I heard the other day. I am not sure if I remember the exact figure but I recall hearing that 80% of the Imams in Europe are on public assistance. The author used the word welfare.
Do any of their sects have restraints on earthly labor for the religious? I'm thinking of the Israeli support for some haredi scholars.
| 139 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:59:08pm |
re: #133 freetoken
The risk they are running is that the Tories are turning to donors who have an agenda that is very similar to the Religious Right here in the US. I'm just wondering if the Tories are going to go down the path of the GOP. There are plenty of "conservatives" in the UK who lament the Tories' centrist positions on several matters.
From what I gather a lot of centrist Tories are similar to Blue Dogs. Compared to Labour they are far more "conservative."
| 140 |
_RememberTonyC Sun, Nov 22, 2009 2:59:16pm |
here's an excellent column on Sarah Palin by VDH. I do take issue with a few of his points, but VDH makes many worthy observations in the piece.
[Link: www.victorhanson.com...]
| 141 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:01:52pm |
re: #140 _RememberTonyC
here's an excellent column on Sarah Palin by VDH. I do take issue with a few of his points, but VDH makes many worthy observations in the piece.
[Link: www.victorhanson.com...]
I've read that column. Like the vast majority of Victor Davis Hanson's writing, its well worth a read.
| 142 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:01:55pm |
re: #138 Decatur Deb
Do any of their sects have restraints on earthly labor for the religious? I'm thinking of the Israeli support for some haredi scholars.
I don't know actually. I imagine it's just plain old laziness and the entitlement society at work in the EU. I've seen in the UK many of the Imam styled activists denigrating the UK and its culture while at the same time living on PA. That's a rather hefty price tag because it also includes housing.
| 143 |
tradewind Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:03:38pm |
re: #140 _RememberTonyC
Oh, snap. He really got down to it.
A chatty, rarified Obama misses dearly a concrete past, where he had to succeed or fail on his own merits.
A pampered center of someone's universe does not a strong president make.
| 144 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:03:39pm |
re: #142 Gus 802
I don't know actually. I imagine it's just plain old laziness and the entitlement society at work in the EU. I've seen in the UK many of the Imam styled activists denigrating the UK and its culture while at the same time living on PA. That's a rather hefty price tag because it also includes housing.
I can imagine some get a double kick out of "sticking it to the Bull".
| 145 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:03:47pm |
With all the comments on the south and race, how about a peek at the political ethics, and possibility of endemic corruption...
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]
EXCERPT
Sweeteners for the South
By Dana Milbank
Sunday, November 22, 2009
Staffers on Capitol Hill were calling it the Louisiana Purchase.
On the eve of Saturday's showdown in the Senate over health-care reform, Democratic leaders still hadn't secured the support of Sen. Mary Landrieu (D-La.), one of the 60 votes needed to keep the legislation alive. The wavering lawmaker was offered a sweetener: at least $100 million in extra federal money for her home state.
And so it came to pass that Landrieu walked onto the Senate floor midafternoon Saturday to announce her aye vote -- and to trumpet the financial "fix" she had arranged for Louisiana. "I am not going to be defensive," she declared. "And it's not a $100 million fix. It's a $300 million fix."
| 146 |
_RememberTonyC Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:05:10pm |
re: #141 Dark_Falcon
I've read that column. Like the vast majority of Victor Davis Hanson's writing, its well worth a read.
totally agree. Krauthammer and VDH are the closest I have seen to being the heirs to William F. Buckley as first rate intellectual conservatives.
| 147 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:05:17pm |
re: #137 tradewind
You mean another ugly jump?
I wasn't here last night. I always miss the good stuff.
Was it as bad as the diva-off of a few nights ago?
Yes. I finally got so angry that called Ludwig "Dan the Illogical Scientist" (after a minor Dilbert character). I'm not proud to have done so, but the atmosphere got so toxic that pretty much every who was involved threw at least one insult. Here's a comment from Cato on this thread that'll give you the flavor of last night:
re: #12 Cato the Elder
And no, my dog doesn't know enough about our Founding Fathers. He thinks Common Sense is a book by Glenn Beck. And like Sharmuta, he thinks the Declaration of Independence can safely be ignored when weighing the original intent of the Constitution.
I keep whacking him on the nose with a rolled up Declaration, but he only snarls at me.
[no dogs were harmed in the making of this snark]
| 148 |
tradewind Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:05:18pm |
re: #145 Rightwingconspirator
Moon's baby girl thinks she can wiggle out of this one at the actual vote and keep her seat, while dragging home some bacon.
I'm betting neaux, she can't.
| 149 |
_RememberTonyC Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:05:47pm |
re: #143 tradewind
Oh, snap. He really got down to it.
A pampered center of someone's universe does not a strong president make.
bingo
| 150 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:07:26pm |
re: #144 Decatur Deb
I can imagine some get a double kick out of "sticking it to the Bull".
It was Christopher Caldwell that said it on The Colbert Report. He has a new books out. Apparently the specific citation from the book is 2/3rds of the Imams in France. Which can be found here:
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]
I imagine there are similar figures throughout the EU.
| 151 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:08:05pm |
re: #145 Rightwingconspirator
(snip)
And so it came to pass that Landrieu walked onto the Senate floor midafternoon Saturday to announce her aye vote -- and to trumpet the financial "fix" she had arranged for Louisiana. "I am not going to be defensive," she declared. "And it's not a $100 million fix. It's a $300 million fix."
She wants her constituents to know how much rain she can make (though that might be a poor figure of speech).
| 152 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:08:11pm |
re: #148 tradewind
I'll bet you are correct. Now we have undermined the legitimacy of the bill as per the bribed vote. Yes, it's an offficial bribe but a bribe none the less. What good can come of a bill via an illicit vote? The enforcement of the bill will be of the same ilk as its creation.
| 153 |
freetoken Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:08:14pm |
re: #132 Decatur Deb
The UK has a lot of Imams that would probably teach it for free.
Reuters blog last week had an entry:
Muslim creationism is back in the news, this time in Egypt
... which summarizes what many of us already know. Also, at the end of that blog they have a link to the show that Aljazeera ran, only in Arabic, about the Ardi discovery.
| 154 |
_RememberTonyC Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:09:29pm |
re: #148 tradewind
Moon's baby girl thinks she can wiggle out of this one at the actual vote and keep her seat, while dragging home some bacon.
I'm betting neaux, she can't.
what happened to democrats with scruples? Oh, that's right, they are ostracized by their party and forced to run as Independents from Connecticut
| 155 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:09:43pm |
re: #151 Decatur Deb
I can only hope this rains on her election parade to the earlobes.
| 156 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:10:32pm |
re: #152 Rightwingconspirator
I'll bet you are correct. Now we have undermined the legitimacy of the bill as per the bribed vote. Yes, it's an offficial bribe but a bribe none the less. What good can come of a bill via an illicit vote? The enforcement of the bill will be of the same ilk as its creation.
Bribe, whoring out your vote, whatever.
| 157 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:10:41pm |
re: #153 freetoken
Reuters blog last week had an entry:
Muslim creationism is back in the news, this time in Egypt
... which summarizes what many of us already know. Also, at the end of that blog they have a link to the show that Aljazeera ran, only in Arabic, about the Ardi discovery.
I saw that Egypt was "back in the news" this morning:
| 158 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:11:31pm |
re: #156 Cannadian Club Akbar
Bribe, whoring out your vote, whatever.
The technical term is "legislation".
| 159 |
J.S. Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:11:43pm |
re: #99 Decatur Deb
Oh, well, you're talking about Catholics in South America -- and that's not what I was referring to at all. That was an aberration that's so obviously over-the-top, immoral and wrong...A fundamental tenet of another religion is that we are all born into the human family -- and, no, we don't (or at least shouldn't) require "religious confirmation" of that obvious fact.
| 160 |
TheMatrix31 Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:12:30pm |
re: #156 Cannadian Club Akbar
Pathetic is what I call it.
| 162 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:13:06pm |
This is going to come up sooner or later so here it is.
Lawyer: 9/11 Defendants Want Platform for Views
Lawyer says 9/11 defendants will plead not guilty so they can express their political views
The five men facing trial in the Sept. 11 attacks will plead not guilty so that they can air their criticisms of U.S. foreign policy, the lawyer for one of the defendants said Sunday.
Scott Fenstermaker, the lawyer for accused terrorist Ali Abd al-Aziz Ali, said the men would not deny their role in the 2001 attacks but "would explain what happened and why they did it."
SNIP
| 163 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:13:08pm |
re: #152 Rightwingconspirator
I'll bet you are correct. Now we have undermined the legitimacy of the bill as per the bribed vote. Yes, it's an offficial bribe but a bribe none the less. What good can come of a bill via an illicit vote? The enforcement of the bill will be of the same ilk as its creation.
Obama doesn't care, neither does Landrieu. They both come from political cultures where those sorts of bribes are accepted parts of the system. Thanks to Bobby Jindal*, that is being changed in Louisiana, but the progress is slow.
*Yes, Jindal is a creationist, but he has worked to end corruption in his state.
| 164 |
freetoken Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:13:12pm |
re: #157 Gus 802
Religious identity is important over there.
It's been about 50,000 or so years since we developed advanced language skills and abstract thought. It could take another 50,000 years to move past religious identity.
| 165 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:13:29pm |
| 166 |
FreedomMoon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:13:40pm |
Just for the clarification she says "Please, I must find my family!...Please, my family must be very worried...I should return to them...This child, is a monster! [pointing emphatically at the boy]...I must return to my family."
| 167 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:13:49pm |
re: #158 Decatur Deb
As long as we accept that sort of thing, there will be no improvement in governance. seems to me this is more worthy of outrage than inflammatory remarks from mere public speakers.
| 168 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:13:55pm |
re: #159 J.S.
Yanking your chain, but the theologians have been in the human-defining business a long time.
| 169 |
J.S. Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:14:56pm |
re: #168 Decatur Deb
Yes, a grotesque-ry if ever there was one.
| 170 |
freetoken Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:15:24pm |
re: #162 Gus 802
They will be limited in what they will be allowed to say.
Their desire is very analogous to Roeder, who wants to plead that his murder of Tiller is justified.
"The law is wrong" approach may make good theatre, but it is not wise legal strategy.
| 171 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:15:39pm |
re: #163 Dark_Falcon
My view on creationists is if they keep that view apart from their legislation, their religion apart from their jobs we can move on from that sticking point without fear.
| 172 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:15:47pm |
| 173 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:15:59pm |
re: #167 Rightwingconspirator
As long as we accept that sort of thing, there will be no improvement in governance. seems to me this is more worthy of outrage than inflammatory remarks from mere public speakers.
The way to stop accepting it runs through one incumbent at a time.
"We need a better class of prisoner."--Lester Maddox
| 174 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:16:03pm |
re: #147 Dark_Falcon
Yes. I finally got so angry that called Ludwig "Dan the Illogical Scientist" (after a minor Dilbert character). I'm not proud to have done so, but the atmosphere got so toxic that pretty much every who was involved threw at least one insult. Here's a comment from Cato on this thread that'll give you the flavor of last night [...]
I would be curious to know how you construe a satirical jab at what seems to be Sharmuta's actual take on a real issue as an "insult".
Of course I have insulted Sharmuta, including on the thread last night. But when I insult you, you'll know it. That was mere satire of a stated political position.
I know you know the difference.
| 175 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:16:09pm |
re: #171 Rightwingconspirator
My view on creationists is if they keep that view apart from their legislation, their religion apart from their jobs we can move on from that sticking point without fear.
Quite Concur.
| 176 |
tradewind Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:17:03pm |
re: #152 Rightwingconspirator
She's telling them back home ' don't worry, I'm not going to vote for it in the end'.
Heh. She has not even begun to feel the heat.
Besides, once it got this far, that was pretty much it. She and a few others are trying brinksmanship with twenty percent of the American economy at stake.
| 177 |
_RememberTonyC Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:17:18pm |
re: #162 Gus 802
This is going to come up sooner or later so here it is.
Lawyer: 9/11 Defendants Want Platform for Views
Lawyer says 9/11 defendants will plead not guilty so they can express their political views
more than anything else Obama has done or will do in the future, this trial has the greatest potential to bring him down. he has no idea how raw this wound still is. and he is standing over it with a salt shaker.
| 178 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:17:27pm |
re: #171 Rightwingconspirator
My view on creationists is if they keep that view apart from their legislation, their religion apart from their jobs we can move on from that sticking point without fear.
We must remember that most voters, if held down, would claim some degree of Creationism.
| 179 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:18:25pm |
re: #170 freetoken
They will be limited in what they will be allowed to say.
Their desire is very analogous to Roeder, who wants to plead that his murder of Tiller is justified.
"The law is wrong" approach may make good theatre, but it is not wise legal strategy.
Time will tell. I'm a bit surprised that the defense attorney made this statement already. Not a good sign of things to come.
| 180 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:18:59pm |
re: #176 tradewind
Is she really? Blatant, utterly blatant corruption.
| 181 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:19:10pm |
re: #174 Cato the Elder
I would be curious to know how you construe a satirical jab at what seems to be Sharmuta's actual take on a real issue as an "insult".
Of course I have insulted Sharmuta, including on the thread last night. But when I insult you, you'll know it. That was mere satire of a stated political position.
I know you know the difference.
I do know the difference, but given the venom that flowed freely last night, you'll forgive me if I was unable to see the satire clearly. It sounded like a nasty dig, and I reacted accordingly.
| 182 |
freetoken Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:21:02pm |
re: #179 Gus 802
I'm no lawyer and I don't play one on the internet, but I've got to believe the "Law is in the wrong and I'm morally right" approach just won't fly.
| 183 |
tradewind Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:21:03pm |
re: #177 _RememberTonyC
Holder's lame attempt to provide POTUS with plausible deniability in this cluster--ck is not going to work.
KSM's lawyers have already said that he will plead not guilty, while admitting that he did it. There's only one reason he would do that...to gain a platform to try the American judicial...and every other... system. And we're measuring, cutting, and handing him all the lumber he needs.
| 184 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:21:26pm |
re: #177 _RememberTonyC
more than anything else Obama has done or will do in the future, this trial has the greatest potential to bring him down. he has no idea how raw this wound still is. and he is standing over it with a salt shaker.
I agree. These trials do have the potential to sink his number even further. Especially if it becomes a vehicle for propaganda from the defense as indicated by one of the defense attorneys, Scott Fenstermaker. Even if the judge were to limit this the defense will use the media as an alternative.
| 185 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:22:01pm |
re: #162 Gus 802
This is going to come up sooner or later so here it is.
Lawyer: 9/11 Defendants Want Platform for Views
Lawyer says 9/11 defendants will plead not guilty so they can express their political views
Well surely that's a good reason to give them a trial open to the press. It's clearly a good idea to let them use our courts to spout jihadi propaganda, and attack us with lies.
/dripping
| 186 |
tradewind Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:22:48pm |
re: #180 Rightwingconspirator
She's even telling the Dem leadership the same thing. We'll see how long she holds out.
Either way, she's screwed, unless there is something very important that I just do not see there.
/Always a possibility/
| 187 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:22:59pm |
re: #183 tradewind
Obama own this. Owns it entirely. Not like the economy, the war, the recession. 100% ownership of this one. if it goes bad, it's a nail in the coffin of re-election.
| 188 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:23:18pm |
re: #182 freetoken
I'm no lawyer and I don't play one on the internet, but I've got to believe the "Law is in the wrong and I'm morally right" approach just won't fly.
I agree. But doesn't this sound like they're saying "the law is right?" They are going to plead guilty and the "would explain what happened and why they did it." Then we'll have to wait and see how the judge responds. At this point I think a strong judge is in order.
| 189 |
TheMatrix31 Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:23:41pm |
re: #162 Gus 802
Screw them and their views---freakin' pond scum.
| 190 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:23:51pm |
re: #183 tradewind
Holder's lame attempt to provide POTUS with plausible deniability in this cluster--ck is not going to work.
KSM's lawyers have already said that he will plead not guilty, while admitting that he did it. There's only one reason he would do that...to gain a platform to try the American judicial...and every other... system. And we're measuring, cutting, and handing him all the lumber he needs.
But, but, Obama went to law skool and stuff. He knows more than we do.
/I'm going back to calling him Zero.
| 192 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:24:55pm |
re: #182 freetoken
I'm no lawyer and I don't play one on the internet, but I've got to believe the "Law is in the wrong and I'm morally right" approach just won't fly.
Jack McCoy would never buy it.
| 193 |
tradewind Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:26:25pm |
re: #182 freetoken
That's not the point. He just wants to rant. It's the forum, not the fundamentals.
The New Jihadis love nothing more than big media. The bigger, the better. The sight of NYC on fire live 24/7 flipped a switch in them that can only be satisfied by bigger and better media ops.
| 195 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:26:59pm |
Resume of Scott Fenstermaker. Attorney for Ali Abd al-Aziz Ali.
Scott L. Fenstermaker
Member
Email: xxxPractice Areas: Criminal Litigation; Tax Litigation.
Admitted: 1993, New York; 1994, U.S. District Court, Southern and Eastern Districts of New York; 1996, U.S. Court of Appeals, Second Circuit; 2006, United States Supreme Court
Law School: Harvard Law School, J.D., cum laude, 1992; New York University Law School, LL.M. in Taxation, 1997
College: United States Air Force Academy, B.S., with distinction, 1984
Member: American Bar Association (past Chair, Subcommittee on Federal Sentencing, Tax Section); National Association of Criminal Defense Attorneys; pool of Qualified Civilian Defense Counsel.
Biography: Former Assistant District Attorney, New York County. Member, Practitioner's Advisory Group, Federal Sentencing Commission.
Born: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, May 1, 1962
| 196 |
tradewind Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:27:02pm |
re: #188 Gus 802
Watch us draw the East Coast version of freakin' Ito.
| 197 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:27:15pm |
| 198 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:27:29pm |
re: #193 tradewind
I hope the judge shuts all that down. It's not evidence it's not allowed. PERIOD.
| 199 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:27:44pm |
| 201 |
Ben G. Hazi Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:28:40pm |
re: #46 freetoken
The depths of the moral vacuousness ought not be underestimated.
Here is a classic comment, from that Townhall thread discussing Buchanan's latest essay:
There are others that are worse.
This, on a site which is owned by and proudly announces its partnership with the so-called leading "Christian" blogs.
What a bunch of racist, knuckle-dragging dipshits...they probably still keep their Klan outfits nice and starched for "special occasions".
*retch*
| 202 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:29:26pm |
re: #195 Gus 802
Resume of Scott Fenstermaker. Attorney for Ali Abd al-Aziz Ali.
Your point?
His surname, by the way, is an Americanized version of "Fenstermacher", which in German means window-maker.
My point? Maybe he'll make a window for AAA to crawl out of. But I doubt it.
| 203 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:29:29pm |
re: #195 Gus 802
Resume of Scott Fenstermaker. Attorney for Ali Abd al-Aziz Ali.
Scott L. Fenstermaker: From honorable defender of our nation, to piece of shit terror-enabling shyster. Also known as From Hero to Zero.
| 204 |
_RememberTonyC Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:29:48pm |
re: #183 tradewind
Holder's lame attempt to provide POTUS with plausible deniability in this cluster--ck is not going to work.
KSM's lawyers have already said that he will plead not guilty, while admitting that he did it. There's only one reason he would do that...to gain a platform to try the American judicial...and every other... system. And we're measuring, cutting, and handing him all the lumber he needs.
the POTUS and the AG have shown incredible naivete and poor judgment. The military tribunals were the way to go, but they just HAVE to put the previous administration on trial along with KSM. They thought they were so fucking smart, but their smugness will bring them down. I was trying HARD to see the good in Obama, I really felt that he would eventually "get it." Now I don't think he will.
| 205 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:30:03pm |
re: #196 tradewind
Watch us draw the East Coast version of freakin' Ito.
Here's the judges in the Southern District court:
| 207 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:30:43pm |
re: #202 Cato the Elder
Your point?
His surname, by the way, is an Americanized version of "Fenstermacher", which in German means window-maker.
My point? Maybe he'll make a window for AAA to crawl out of. But I doubt it.
It's for informational purposes. I found it interesting that he's an AFA grad.
| 208 |
tradewind Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:30:46pm |
re: #198 Rightwingconspirator
Here's a nightmare: Mid trial, KSM fires his counsel and demands to go pro se.
He has the right, since we've blessed him with it. Now he gets access to all the discovery, etc, and in some ways, our national security is BOUND to suffer. Not trying to be chicken little, and not saying that provisions haven't been made, but there are bound to be slip-ups.
| 209 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:31:17pm |
re: #202 Cato the Elder
Your point?
His surname, by the way, is an Americanized version of "Fenstermacher", which in German means window-maker.
My point? Maybe he'll make a window for AAA to crawl out of. But I doubt it.
Thank you for that, Cato. That's one of the reasons I like having you around: You have wealth of knowledge that fleshes out cultures and situations, thus making discussions more enlightening.
| 211 |
Spare O'Lake Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:32:16pm |
re: #162 Gus 802
This is going to come up sooner or later so here it is.
Lawyer: 9/11 Defendants Want Platform for Views
Lawyer says 9/11 defendants will plead not guilty so they can express their political views
Oh thank you Mr. President, for arranging this wonderful platform for our Islamofascist brothers to exercise their inalienable rights and to help us to achieve a more perfect union.
*heave*
| 212 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:32:23pm |
re: #208 tradewind
I shudder at the thought. I can only HOPE we get the best judge ever... Who would just assign another real lawyer and not allow self representation.
| 214 |
tradewind Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:34:08pm |
re: #212 Rightwingconspirator
But... but we are affording him the rights and privileges of a civilian trial. If he wants to go pro se, he can, unless the judge rules he is insane or incompetent.
The very venue is going to limit what the judge can do compared to a military tribunal. Big mistake. Huge.
| 215 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:34:39pm |
re: #211 Spare O'Lake
Oh thank you Mr. President, for arranging this wonderful platform for our Islamofascist brothers to exercise their inalienable rights and to help us to achieve a more perfect union.
*heave*
These people don't think like us. If they get a public platform, they'll drive themselves to the morgue.
| 216 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:35:07pm |
re: #207 Gus 802
It's for informational purposes. I found it interesting that he's an AFA grad.
As did I. I could actually make out an argument that he has violated the oath he took there by trying to get KSM and A3 a platform. Defending a client is a job that lawyer must do, but that does not mean you help them attack your country.
| 217 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:35:17pm |
re: #214 tradewind
But... but we are affording him the rights and privileges of a civilian trial. If he wants to go pro se, he can, unless the judge rules he is insane or incompetent.
The very venue is going to limit what the judge can do compared to a military tribunal. Big mistake. Huge.
Hasan might be going for an insanity plea.
| 218 |
_RememberTonyC Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:35:34pm |
Military tribunals would have been able to guarantee FAIR TRIALS for KSM, et al. I don't give two shits what Holder and Obama say, their REAL message is that civilian court must be more fair. And the reason? They either dislike or distrust all things associated with the military.
| 219 |
tradewind Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:36:54pm |
re: #215 Decatur Deb
Speaking of, how's the track record in NY state for the death penalty ? Betting it's not so great.
At least they should send him down to VA. The Pentagon's close enough, I'm sure some of the dead were residents. Try him in VA.
| 220 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:37:22pm |
re: #218 _RememberTonyC
As does their anti Bush, anti terror war, frankly anti western civilization base.
| 221 |
TheMatrix31 Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:37:36pm |
re: #217 Gus 802
Hey Hasan, just because you're a piece of terrorist garbage doesn't give you the right to claim insanity.
| 222 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:38:32pm |
re: #219 tradewind
Speaking of, how's the track record in NY state for the death penalty ? Betting it's not so great.
At least they should send him down to VA. The Pentagon's close enough, I'm sure some of the dead were residents. Try him in VA.
This would be under Federal guidelines. There is not death penalty in New York.
| 223 |
tradewind Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:38:43pm |
re: #217 Gus 802
Here's why that will never work: it would end up having the net effect of trying an entire religion, which would not be tolerated (or fair).
| 224 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:38:47pm |
re: #219 tradewind
Speaking of, how's the track record in NY state for the death penalty ? Betting it's not so great.
At least they should send him down to VA. The Pentagon's close enough, I'm sure some of the dead were residents. Try him in VA.
I read an article today. NY has not executed since 1963. BUT, more than 70% polled said they would like to make an exception. I'll try to link.
| 226 |
_RememberTonyC Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:39:21pm |
re: #220 Rightwingconspirator
As does their anti Bush, anti terror war, frankly anti western civilization base.
i agree on the first two, but not necessarily the third. i'd say their base is not anti-western as much as it is simply fucked up morally and intellectually.
| 228 |
Obdicut Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:39:44pm |
re: #216 Dark_Falcon
As did I. I could actually make out an argument that he has violated the oath he took there by trying to get KSM and A3 a platform. Defending a client is a job that lawyer must do, but that does not mean you help them attack your country.
That's pretty much accusing him of treason for representing him.
Is that what you mean?
| 229 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:40:14pm |
detected: virus IRC-Worm.IRC.JeepWarz.j (modification) URL: [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
| 230 |
tradewind Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:40:21pm |
re: #222 Gus 802
Oh, of course there's not.///
Even more reason why there's no reason to try him in NY state.
If they're going federal rules, go somewhere else.
| 233 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:41:19pm |
| 235 |
tradewind Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:42:26pm |
re: #224 Decatur Deb
They can fuggeddabouddit then, if it's been dead since the sixties.
| 237 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:42:59pm |
re: #234 Rightwingconspirator
False alarm I'll bet.
Yeah. But, just in case it's up there for Charles. ;)
| 238 |
tradewind Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:43:18pm |
re: #233 Gus 802
That's why I use a mac.
:)
Kaspersky is good, though... I have it for my kid's PC.
| 239 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:43:20pm |
re: #236 freetoken
Maybe a computer got them from a cat?
| 241 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:45:31pm |
re: #224 Decatur Deb
I read an article today. NY has not executed since 1963. BUT, more than 70% polled said they would like to make an exception. I'll try to link.
[Link: www.google.com...]
| 242 |
tradewind Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:45:32pm |
re: #225 Gus 802
OMG, that reminds me of the last episode of House... ' here, drink this nice glass of ice cold helminths'...
.
| 243 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:46:34pm |
re: #242 tradewind
OMG, that reminds me of the last episode of House... ' here, drink this nice glass of ice cold helminths'...
.
I imagine everyone was wondering, "worm alert? What in the world is he talking about..."
| 244 |
tradewind Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:48:35pm |
re: #243 Gus 802
Well, when you're on a blog and someone says ' Worm', I think what you meant is pretty much the first thing you think.
Don't miss all that drama at all.
| 245 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:48:49pm |
re: #228 Obdicut
That's pretty much accusing him of treason for representing him.
Is that what you mean?
No, its not Treason. It is however, giving a terrorist a chance to hurt us for his lies. That, to me, fails an oath to defend the Constitution against all enemies. However, it is not actually adhering to our enemies.
| 246 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:50:33pm |
re: #217 Gus 802
Hasan might be going for an insanity plea.
Which would make perfect sense, if he weren't a psychiatrist and if he hadn't been vetted (I use the term loosely, with all due allowances for political correctness) by a raft of other shrinks every step of the way.
Good luck with that one, Hasan. Islam is not a mental illness, or do you disagree?
| 247 |
Obdicut Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:50:35pm |
re: #245 Dark_Falcon
No, its not Treason. It is however, giving a terrorist a chance to hurt us for his lies. That, to me, fails an oath to defend the Constitution against all enemies. However, it is not actually adhering to our enemies.
That's slicing it pretty fine.
I do not think America is hurt by anything terrorists say. I think we're hurt when terrorists are believed.
| 248 |
tradewind Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:50:53pm |
re: #245 Dark_Falcon
He's not a public defender?
Who the hell signs up for that gig? For a while I was thinking well, a JAG, but this isn't a military trial.
Unfortunately.
| 249 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:51:02pm |
re: #241 Decatur Deb
That Daily News article has some interesting NYawker quotes. It's the taxi driver's newspaper. (73% fer it.)
| 250 |
tradewind Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:51:54pm |
re: #247 Obdicut
It depends on the information we are forced to give them as to whether or not we are hurt by allowing him to speak.
Very stupid and arrogant of Holder, IMO.
| 251 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:52:20pm |
re: #246 Cato the Elder
Which would make perfect sense, if he weren't a psychiatrist and if he hadn't been vetted (I use the term loosely, with all due allowances for political correctness) by a raft of other shrinks every step of the way.
Good luck with that one, Hasan. Islam is not a mental illness, or do you disagree?
No, I do not see Islam as a mental illness.
| 252 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:52:44pm |
The tiresome refrain that crops up whenever a defense attorney takes a particularly repellent client, that s/he must be an awful human being, is simply un-American.
Even in front of a military tribunal the defendant has a right to counsel. Inferring bad faith on the part of the lawyer is infantile.
| 253 |
tradewind Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:53:00pm |
re: #247 Obdicut
You have what... twenty percent of the country still believing the nutjobs who think George Bush or the IDF brought down the Trade Center towers?
No telling what kind of recruitment tool this will turn out to be for them.
| 254 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:53:32pm |
re: #251 Gus 802
No, I do not see Islam as a mental illness.
I was asking Hasan, rhetorically. His real excuse is what he conceives to be Islam, and now he claims mental illness. I was wondering if he now conflates the two.
| 255 |
rurality Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:53:52pm |
OT, kinda. We just had a long, rather head butting discussion with a good friend here. He thinks calling someone a 'Jew', if it is their religion, is OK. Husband and I both said we'd use the term "Jewish"--never "Jew". Then we had to get into this whole thing about accurate vs. loaded terms. Husband grew up in the east, I'm a Midwesterner--we both lived in NYC, where ethnic terms come so fast and furious they are descriptively neutral, but still don't think calling someone a Jew was anything I was ever comfortable with. During this discussion, I couldn't really back up why it thought it was a word to avoid, beyond WASP discomfort and anything that smacks of reflexive manners, scares me. Out here in the land of the Swedes, and other folks with 'son' at the end of their names, using the term 'Jew' just seems aggressive and loaded--especially, as I pointed out, because it is used as a verb more than a description of someone's religion (cause there aren't any Jewish people who farm, it seems). Friend kept pumping accuracy and I kept flailing with, I wouldn't use the word, use Jewish. Help? Am I a sump?
| 256 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:54:26pm |
re: #247 Obdicut
That's slicing it pretty fine.
I do not think America is hurt by anything terrorists say. I think we're hurt when terrorists are believed.
It is a fine slice, but not an out-of-bounds one.
I cannot agree with your second statement. Terrorist propaganda does hurt America. It get relayed across the world by anti-American outlets and it hurts greatly. One advantage of a trial down in Gitmo is that reporters hostile to this country can be excluded, thus preventing them from twisting things to fit their anti-American template.
| 258 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:55:01pm |
re: #254 Cato the Elder
I was asking Hasan, rhetorically. His real excuse is what he conceives to be Islam, and now he claims mental illness. I was wondering if he now conflates the two.
Ah, I see what you mean. Would this mean he is putting himself in some kind of theological double jeopardy?
| 259 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:56:37pm |
re: #255 rurality
You're not a sump, but I don't know any Jews who have a problem calling themselves Jews. Or Jewish. I think you're being a bit overly sensitive, but I can see why.
| 260 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:58:40pm |
re: #258 Gus 802
Ah, I see what you mean. Would this mean he is putting himself in some kind of theological double jeopardy?
At the very least, if he ends up dying of his wounds (unlikely) or being executed under the UCMJ (quite likely), I believe he may put his 72 raisins at risk if he denies his true motive. ;^)
No shaheed worth his salt would ever claim insanity.
| 261 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 3:59:13pm |
re: #252 Cato the Elder
The tiresome refrain that crops up whenever a defense attorney takes a particularly repellent client, that s/he must be an awful human being, is simply un-American.
Even in front of a military tribunal the defendant has a right to counsel. Inferring bad faith on the part of the lawyer is infantile.
I do not infer that, Cato. i do however, believe that he should not help A3 use the trial to attack America. If he has something to say about the actual evidence, let him present that. If he can get government witnesses discredited, then he has the right to do so. However, it is irresponsible and stupid to help a terrorist claim that he was right to help murder 2,900+ people.
| 262 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:00:28pm |
re: #261 Dark_Falcon
I do not infer that, Cato. i do however, believe that he should not help A3 use the trial to attack America. If he has something to say about the actual evidence, let him present that. If he can get government witnesses discredited, then he has the right to do so. However, it is irresponsible and stupid to help a terrorist claim that he was right to help murder 2,900+ people.
I may have missed something. Has he made that claim?
| 263 |
Vicious Babushka Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:00:40pm |
re: #252 Cato the Elder
The tiresome refrain that crops up whenever a defense attorney takes a particularly repellent client, that s/he must be an awful human being, is simply un-American.
Defense attorneys are lawyers, are they not?
Q.E.D.
| 264 |
Ayeless in Ghazi Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:01:30pm |
Stop the Islamisation of Europe and the Madness of Stephen Gash
In Comment is Free (CiF), Shaaz Mahboob, the Vice-Chair of British Muslims for Secular Democracy (BMSD), has written a piece in which he asks Stop the Islamisation of Europe (SIOE) to call off their planned demonstration outside the Harrow Mosque. BMSD have also written an open letter to the SIOE head, Stephen Gash, which carries the same message. This exercise has helped to expose the truly extreme and illiberal nature of Gash and the SIOE.
Continued:
[Link: www.hurryupharry.org...]
| 265 |
goddamnedfrank Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:02:17pm |
re: #218 _RememberTonyC
Military tribunals would have been able to guarantee FAIR TRIALS for KSM, et al. I don't give two shits what Holder and Obama say, their REAL message is that civilian court must be more fair. And the reason? They either dislike or distrust all things associated with the military.
Oh please. A civilian trial is by definition more fair to an unbiased observer, as the defendant has fewer rights in a military tribunal, and the judges in a tribunal report indirectly to the same executive authority who brought the charges. As I read these threads, it is the granting of these very rights that is the source of much of the professed outrage and anger. It seems to me that you can't have it both ways and still insist that both tribunals and trials can be called equally fair, as these arguments are antithetical to one other.
| 266 |
Vicious Babushka Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:02:29pm |
re: #255 rurality
OT, kinda. We just had a long, rather head butting discussion with a good friend here. He thinks calling someone a 'Jew', if it is their religion, is OK. Husband and I both said we'd use the term "Jewish"--never "Jew". Then we had to get into this whole thing about accurate vs. loaded terms. Husband grew up in the east, I'm a Midwesterner--we both lived in NYC, where ethnic terms come so fast and furious they are descriptively neutral, but still don't think calling someone a Jew was anything I was ever comfortable with. During this discussion, I couldn't really back up why it thought it was a word to avoid, beyond WASP discomfort and anything that smacks of reflexive manners, scares me. Out here in the land of the Swedes, and other folks with 'son' at the end of their names, using the term 'Jew' just seems aggressive and loaded--especially, as I pointed out, because it is used as a verb more than a description of someone's religion (cause there aren't any Jewish people who farm, it seems). Friend kept pumping accuracy and I kept flailing with, I wouldn't use the word, use Jewish. Help? Am I a sump?
During the 19th century, the words "Jew" and "Jewish" were actually considered vulgar. "Israelite" and "Hebrew" were the preferred terms.
Not only am I a Jew, but I am a fucking Jew.
| 267 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:02:45pm |
re: #262 Cato the Elder
I may have missed something. Has he made that claim?
re: #162 Gus 802
This is going to come up sooner or later so here it is.
Lawyer: 9/11 Defendants Want Platform for Views
Lawyer says 9/11 defendants will plead not guilty so they can express their political views
I'd say something, but I have to go to dinner. I'll be back later.
| 268 |
rurality Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:04:07pm |
re: #257 Rightwingconspirator
That's the problem, there doesnt seem to be any context...or I am loaded the situation with context.
| 269 |
_RememberTonyC Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:04:51pm |
re: #265 goddamnedfrank
Oh please. A civilian trial is by definition more fair to an unbiased observer, as the defendant has fewer rights in a military tribunal, and the judges in a tribunal report indirectly to the same executive authority who brought the charges. As I read these threads, it is the granting of these very rights that is the source of much of the professed outrage and anger. It seems to me that you can't have it both ways and still insist that both tribunals and trials can be called equally fair, as these arguments are antithetical to one other.
then why is Obama/Holder OK with military tribunal justice for SOME of the gitmo detainees? is KSM "more" deserving of "good justice" than the others? if so, why?
| 270 |
solomonpanting Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:05:06pm |
re: #266 Alouette
During the 19th century, the words "Jew" and "Jewish" were actually considered vulgar. "Israelite" and "Hebrew" were the preferred terms.
Not only am I a Jew, but I am a fucking Jew.
Hence, the large family.
| 271 |
rurality Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:05:40pm |
re: #259 Cato the Elder
"sump" is a pump out here, meant, "simp", but sump kinda covers the mood too.
| 273 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:06:26pm |
re: #267 Dark_Falcon
I'd say something, but I have to go to dinner. I'll be back later.
Of course they will plead not guilty, and of course they will try to express their political views, and of course it is the lawyer's duty to further that intent.
Let them. Bring it. Their views should be very interesting to the world at large.
One of the great discrediting factors in the case of, say, Timothy McV., was that he was allowed to vent to his heart's content.
Calling the lawyer names is childish.
| 274 |
_RememberTonyC Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:06:48pm |
re: #266 Alouette
During the 19th century, the words "Jew" and "Jewish" were actually considered vulgar. "Israelite" and "Hebrew" were the preferred terms.
Not only am I a Jew, but I am a fucking Jew.
a Hebrew hooker?
/
~ducking
| 275 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:06:55pm |
re: #271 rurality
"sump" is a pump out here, meant, "simp", but sump kinda covers the mood too.
It was your typo. I just ran with it.
| 276 |
Bagua Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:08:44pm |
re: #273 Cato the Elder
Of course they will plead not guilty, and of course they will try to express their political views, and of course it is the lawyer's duty to further that intent.
Let them. Bring it. Their views should be very interesting to the world at large.
One of the great discrediting factors in the case of, say, Timothy McV., was that he was allowed to vent to his heart's content.
Calling the lawyer names is childish.
Discrediting to whom?
| 277 |
ryannon Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:09:02pm |
re: #245 Dark_Falcon
No, its not Treason. It is however, giving a terrorist a chance to hurt us for his lies. That, to me, fails an oath to defend the Constitution against all enemies. However, it is not actually adhering to our enemies.
It's a cluster-fuck to be sure, but I'm equally certain that no one from the judge to the defense lawyers to the jury, right down to the molecules of 9-11 dust on the courtroom walls is going to give these guys the slightest, tiniest, most infinitesimal free pass to do anything but be tried in the strictest sense in a court of law. If they manage to escape the death penalty, they will spend the rest of their lives locked away alone in the cell of a maximum security prison.
Without entering into the discussion of a military versus a civil proceeding, I'm wagering that there is just no way at all that this trail is going to be turned into a forum for jihad, a political ccause celebre or the airing of sensitive or potentially harmful intelligence.
We may be getting a bit off the track as a nation, but not to the point of totally shooting ourselves in the collective foot.
| 278 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:09:03pm |
re: #262 Cato the Elder
I may have missed something. Has he made that claim?
Fenstermaker made comments which appeared on ABC, AP, and the New York Times:
“He acknowledges that he helped plan the 9/11 attacks, and he says he’s looking forward to dying,” Mr. Fenstermaker said of Mr. Ali. But he said he expected Mr. Ali and his co-defendants to plead not guilty “so they can have a trial and try to get their message out.”
SNIP
Mr. Fenstermaker, a criminal defense lawyer practicing in Manhattan and Brooklyn who represents Mr. Ali pro bono, is an outspoken critic of the campaign against terrorism and has had a contentious relationship with the government. His 2005 lawsuit challenging the military commissions was dismissed, but it prompted several Guantánamo prisoners to seek his representation, he said. In June a federal judge rejected his request to represent a prisoner held in the 1998 Tanzania embassy bombing
Ali, also known as Ammar al-Baluchi, is a nephew of professed 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.
Mohammed, Ali and the others will explain "their assessment of American foreign policy," Fenstermaker said.
"Their assessment is negative," he said.
| 279 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:09:12pm |
| 280 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:09:12pm |
| 281 |
jaunte Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:10:22pm |
KSM's hearing transcipt (pdf, linked from the link below) is worth a read, for anyone who hasn't seen it.
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the suspected mastermind of the September 11, 2001, terror attacks, admitted to those attacks and numerous others during a U.S. military hearing on Saturday, according to an edited transcript of the hearing released by the Pentagon Wednesday.In a statement from him, read by a U.S. military representative, he said, "I was responsible for the 9/11 operation, from A to Z."
The transcript continues with the list of operations he was responsible for, including the Richard Reid shoe bomber attempt to blow up an airliner over the Atlantic Ocean, the Bali nightclub bombing in Indonesia, the 1993 World Trade Center attack and other attacks that were foiled. (Read transcript (PDF))
[Link: www.cnn.com...]
| 282 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:10:50pm |
re: #266 Alouette
During the 19th century, the words "Jew" and "Jewish" were actually considered vulgar. "Israelite" and "Hebrew" were the preferred terms.
Not only am I a Jew, but I am a fucking Jew.
I always found "of the Hebrew persuasion" to be a particularly lame dodge, dripping with false tolerance and a certain nudge, nudge quality.
Haven't heard that one in a while, thankfully.
| 283 |
Mich-again Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:11:59pm |
I enjoyed the Onion video lots. How do they dream that stuff up. Kids got his own ET.
| 284 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:12:23pm |
re: #282 Cato the Elder
When this comes up again, on some quiet thread, I'll post a horror story about "Jew as a verb".
| 285 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:12:28pm |
re: #278 Gus 802
I don't see what anybody has to fear from them "trying to get their message out".
Bring. It. On. I've been waiting nearly a decade.
| 286 |
freetoken Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:12:34pm |
Looks like we're tweeted out:
| 287 |
solomonpanting Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:12:53pm |
Since the 1997 international accord to fight global warming, climate change has worsened and accelerated — beyond some of the grimmest of warnings made back then.
| 289 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:14:18pm |
| 290 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:14:41pm |
re: #286 freetoken
Looks like we're tweeted out:
I was saying it was a fad around the same time I peeped my first tweet.
Twitter will one day - not all that far off - be remembered fondly along with AltaVista and Netscape.
| 291 |
rurality Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:14:42pm |
re: #259 Cato the Elder
Since I have lived here, I have that sort of justification for words, re: #259 Cato the Elder
You're not a sump, but I don't know any Jews who have a problem calling themselves Jews. Or Jewish. I think you're being a bit overly sensitive, but I can see why.
I'm thinking about non-jews using the term. I have had two decades of fighting the "N" word, with the justification, "well, they call themselves that" so it must be OK. How should someone who isnt Jewish refer to you (label you) ..yup, I know Cato, etc., but given the question I am trying to answer?
| 292 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:14:43pm |
re: #285 Cato the Elder
I don't see what anybody has to fear from them "trying to get their message out".
Bring. It. On. I've been waiting nearly a decade.
Whatever message they're thinking about getting out will depend on the judge. I'm pretty sure we can all predict the monologue.
| 293 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:15:18pm |
re: #290 Cato the Elder
I was ill tweeted. So I quit.
| 294 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:15:45pm |
| 295 |
albusteve Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:16:25pm |
re: #285 Cato the Elder
I don't see what anybody has to fear from them "trying to get their message out".
Bring. It. On. I've been waiting nearly a decade.
agreed, as if their message is some sort of mystery...there are problems with thse trials but that is not one of them
| 296 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:16:30pm |
re: #291 rurality
Since I have lived here, I have that sort of justification for words, re: #259 Cato the Elder
I'm thinking about non-jews using the term. I have had two decades of fighting the "N" word, with the justification, "well, they call themselves that" so it must be OK. How should someone who isnt Jewish refer to you (label you) ..yup, I know Cato, etc., but given the question I am trying to answer?
I think you should ask Alouette.
| 297 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:16:41pm |
| 298 |
Bagua Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:17:39pm |
re: #287 solomonpanting
Yep, ahead of United Nations Climate Change Conference we will see more warmist propaganda alleging things predicted to occur in the future are occurring now right now.
On the Sceptic side we saw the convenient timing of the CRU data breach.
| 299 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:18:26pm |
This wasn't in my previous AP report but showed up on Fox News via AP:
Dean Boyd, a spokesman for the Department of Justice, said Sunday that while the men may attempt to use the trial to express their views, "we have full confidence in the ability of the courts and in particular the federal judge who may preside over the trial to ensure that the proceeding is conducted appropriately and with minimal disrupton, as federal courts have done in the past."
| 300 |
goddamnedfrank Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:18:35pm |
re: #269 _RememberTonyC
then why is Obama/Holder OK with military tribunal justice for SOME of the gitmo detainees? is KSM "more" deserving of "good justice" than the others? if so, why?
Because supposedly Obama and Holder believe that there is unequivocal evidence against him that will stand up to the level of scrutiny of a civilian court, evidence that must not exist against some of the others. They are not aiming for a singular consistency, they are apparently trying to balance pragmatism with an attempt to show, at least as far as these few show trials are concerned, that they do have the courage of their convictions.
I wish them luck, as I feel they will need it.
| 301 |
Bagua Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:19:01pm |
| 302 |
_RememberTonyC Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:19:16pm |
re: #291 rurality
Since I have lived here, I have that sort of justification for words, re: #259 Cato the Elder
I'm thinking about non-jews using the term. I have had two decades of fighting the "N" word, with the justification, "well, they call themselves that" so it must be OK. How should someone who isnt Jewish refer to you (label you) ..yup, I know Cato, etc., but given the question I am trying to answer?
having dealt with my share of antisemitism as a youth, I don't really care which way you go with it. if i know you even a little bit, I can usually tell by the tone of your voice and its inflection whether you are a "hater." You can call me a Jew or a member of the Jewish faith, but I'll know your intent if I hear you say it. Call it my "Jew-Dar." :)
| 303 |
austin_blue Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:20:27pm |
re: #290 Cato the Elder
I was saying it was a fad around the same time I peeped my first tweet.
Twitter will one day - not all that far off - be remembered fondly along with AltaVista and Netscape.
Heh. My first browser was Mosaic.
| 304 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:20:44pm |
re: #299 Gus 802
This wasn't in my previous AP report but showed up on Fox News via AP:
This trial is a done deal. Just the public statements made by Holder and Obama during last week will be enough to get this thrown out of courst. Hell, with the great ammo that the administration gave the defense last week, I could bet their attorney.
| 305 |
_RememberTonyC Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:21:15pm |
re: #300 goddamnedfrank
Because supposedly Obama and Holder believe that there is unequivocal evidence against him that will stand up to the level of scrutiny of a civilian court, evidence that must not exist against some of the others. They are not aiming for a singular consistency, they are apparently trying to balance pragmatism with an attempt to show, at least as far as these few show trials are concerned, that they do have the courage of their convictions.
I wish them luck, as I feel they will need it.
do you think ANY part of the Obama/Holder gameplan is aimed at embarrassing Bush? because if he is doing that on any level, I think he is playing with fire.
| 306 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:21:15pm |
re: #291 rurality
Some term are reserved for members only. N$#@ is the big one, C$#% is next for the women, Brit and Jews seem to me to be less loaded. I live in melting pot Los Angeles so that sets context too. Location. N%$@ at a rap concert is very different from the same in an argument, regardless of the race of the speaker.
| 307 |
Vicious Babushka Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:21:18pm |
re: #296 Cato the Elder
I think you should ask Alouette.
I can call myself a fucking Jew, but you can't.
| 308 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:21:58pm |
re: #302 _RememberTonyC
Heh. My first browser was Mosaic.
Are you trying to join the "Jewish" discussion?
| 309 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:22:07pm |
re: #299 Gus 802
Dean Boyd, a spokesman for the Department of Justice, said Sunday that while the men may attempt to use the trial to express their views, "we have full confidence in the ability of the courts and in particular the federal judge who may preside over the trial to ensure that the proceeding is conducted appropriately and with minimal disrupton, as federal courts have done in the past."
Remember the "Chicago Seven"? If a judge can handle Abbie Hoffman, another judge can handle KSM.
| 310 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:22:26pm |
re: #304 Walter L. Newton
This trial is a done deal. Just the public statements made by Holder and Obama during last week will be enough to get this thrown out of courst. Hell, with the great ammo that the administration gave the defense last week, I could bet their attorney.
You mean that Holder literally said they were guilty and would seek the death penalty? That already taints any potential jury pool.
| 311 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:22:35pm |
re: #301 Bagua
Hah That's a first first for me I think!
| 312 |
Bagua Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:22:50pm |
re: #304 Walter L. Newton
This trial is a done deal. Just the public statements made by Holder and Obama during last week will be enough to get this thrown out of courst. Hell, with the great ammo that the administration gave the defense last week, I could bet their attorney.
And if it proceeds they will claim it was rigged, losing any value we get from suffering the civil trial.
Obama made a risky gambit, and then kicked an own goal.
| 313 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:22:53pm |
re: #307 Alouette
I can call myself a fucking Jew, but you can't.
But can I call you a Jew? That is the question. Or the other guy's question. He's just asking.
| 314 |
_RememberTonyC Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:23:35pm |
re: #308 Decatur Deb
i responded to a post on the topic ... why are you asking me that?
| 315 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:23:45pm |
re: #309 Cato the Elder
Remember the "Chicago Seven"? If a judge can handle Abbie Hoffman, another judge can handle KSM.
Abby Hoffman invented LSD. (not the one you speak of)
| 316 |
Vicious Babushka Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:23:52pm |
re: #309 Cato the Elder
Remember the "Chicago Seven"? If a judge can handle Abbie Hoffman, another judge can handle KSM.
I would like to see KSM & co-conspirators in full Hannibal Lechter regalia in the courtroom, if that's what it takes to keep them quiet.
Although if they do attempt to "steal the show" a la Bobby Seale, I think the judge will just lock them in a padded cell with an A/V feed.
| 317 |
Bagua Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:23:52pm |
re: #305 _RememberTonyC
do you think ANY part of the Obama/Holder gameplan is aimed at embarrassing Bush? because if he is doing that on any level, I think he is playing with fire.
Any part? Was that a typo?
You mean every part.
| 318 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:24:33pm |
re: #314 _RememberTonyC
i responded to a post on the topic ... why are you asking me that?
Pun. (Mosaic/Jewish)
| 319 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:24:49pm |
re: #310 Gus 802
You mean that Holder literally said they were guilty and would seek the death penalty? That already taints any potential jury pool.
That will do for starters.
Miranda. This is going to be a Miranda. Is there any way you can not be given Miranda Rights and still be prosecuted, even brought to trial? I don't think so. What are they going to do, make a special case for this group?
Don't make sense to me.
| 320 |
Vicious Babushka Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:24:50pm |
re: #313 Cato the Elder
But can I call you a Jew? That is the question. Or the other guy's question. He's just asking.
"Jew" is perfectly acceptable to a person of the Hebraic persuasion.
| 321 |
albusteve Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:25:01pm |
re: #300 goddamnedfrank
Because supposedly Obama and Holder believe that there is unequivocal evidence against him that will stand up to the level of scrutiny of a civilian court, evidence that must not exist against some of the others. They are not aiming for a singular consistency, they are apparently trying to balance pragmatism with an attempt to show, at least as far as these few show trials are concerned, that they do have the courage of their convictions.
I wish them luck, as I feel they will need it.
there fore, they can freely predict the outcome without compromising the trial?...you give these two rubes more credit than they deserve...these guys want to stick it Bush
| 322 |
_RememberTonyC Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:25:15pm |
re: #318 Decatur Deb
Pun. (Mosaic/Jewish)
i didn't post the mosaic line ... that was someone else :)
| 324 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:26:00pm |
re: #315 Cannadian Club Akbar
Abby Hoffman invented LSD. (not the one you speak of)
No, the one I speak of just got a lot of fun out of it.
| 325 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:26:17pm |
re: #316 Alouette
I would like to see KSM & co-conspirators in full Hannibal Lechter regalia in the courtroom, if that's what it takes to keep them quiet.
Although if they do attempt to "steal the show" a la Bobby Seale, I think the judge will just lock them in a padded cell with an A/V feed.
Oh that's funny. I was just thinking the same thing regarding Hannibal Lecther. I was going to say:
KSM should be forced to wear a restraint mask, strait jacket and tied to a hand truck for easy maneuverability during the proceedings.
//
| 326 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:26:56pm |
re: #318 Decatur Deb
Weird. I hit the wrong number, but the right text came up.
| 327 |
Vicious Babushka Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:27:09pm |
It is also the practice for Yiddish-speaking Jews to refer to one another as "Yid" in the same way that brothas call each other n***ah, but only a Yiddish speaker can get away with "Yid."
| 328 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:27:14pm |
| 329 |
_RememberTonyC Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:27:47pm |
re: #317 Bagua
Any part? Was that a typo?
You mean every part.
my point to GDFrank was that I think he/she trusts Obama's motives more than I do. And I think their strategy could very well backfire on him and US.
| 330 |
Digital Display Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:28:11pm |
Hiya Lizards...
Just got home from the Colts party...
We are undefeated.. 10-0
Sorry about your luck NFL! haha..Anybody need a beer?
| 331 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:28:17pm |
re: #327 Alouette
Another "members only" term. Funny how our culture loads labels. :)
| 332 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:28:42pm |
Maybe KSM'll go all Bobby Sands on us.
Wouldn't that be sad?
| 333 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:29:13pm |
re: #327 Alouette
It is also the practice for Yiddish-speaking Jews to refer to one another as "Yid" in the same way that brothas call each other n***ah, but only a Yiddish speaker can get away with "Yid."
Great, another word for my dictionary of hateTM.
| 334 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:29:21pm |
re: #316 Alouette
I would like to see KSM & co-conspirators in full Hannibal Lechter regalia in the courtroom, if that's what it takes to keep them quiet.
Although if they do attempt to "steal the show" a la Bobby Seale, I think the judge will just lock them in a padded cell with an A/V feed.
Except we don't do that in America. We don't make the accused wear prison garb in court, or shave their heads, as in China and Russia. We don't put them in cages surrounded by guards.
As a rule, that is.
If these guys constantly disrupt, measures will have to be taken.
We cannot take them in advance.
God bless America.
| 335 |
_RememberTonyC Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:29:50pm |
re: #327 Alouette
It is also the practice for Yiddish-speaking Jews to refer to one another as "Yid" in the same way that brothas call each other n***ah, but only a Yiddish speaker can get away with "Yid."
Back in the mid-80's whan jesse jackson introduced us to "Hymietown," me and a fellow jewish friend of mine statted greeting each other thusly: "Hello Hymie." We still do.
| 336 |
TheMatrix31 Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:29:50pm |
re: #331 Rightwingconspirator
I'm perfectly happy with anyone calling my people "fucking Armos".
| 337 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:30:26pm |
re: #332 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Maybe KSM'll go all Bobby Sands on us.
Wouldn't that be sad?
I hope not. Some homes have a picture of the late M.P. alongside the Pope.
| 338 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:31:25pm |
re: #336 TheMatrix31
Upding and a high five!
| 339 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:31:28pm |
re: #336 TheMatrix31
I'm perfectly happy with anyone calling my people "fucking Armos".
Armenian?
Armadillo?
Army brat?
Please explicate.
| 340 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:31:58pm |
Have I got this correct, Joe Lieberman voted YES to bring the health care proposals to the floor for debate?
| 342 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:32:40pm |
| 344 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:33:07pm |
re: #341 Decatur Deb
McAfee just told me to bail.
Something's going on. Upthread there was another virus alert.
Are you a Mac or a PC?
| 346 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:33:52pm |
re: #339 Cato the Elder
If you live near Glendale California you get it.
| 347 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:33:55pm |
re: #337 Decatur Deb
KSM's pictures in a bunch of homes already.
| 348 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:35:19pm |
re: #347 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
KSM's pictures in a bunch of homes already.
Right next to a "Free Mumia" poster.
| 350 |
albusteve Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:35:52pm |
[Link: article.nationalreview.com...]
[Link: article.nationalreview.com...]
I suggest people read these two reports by Andy McCarthy, who closely followed the Senate trial hearings last week...these two guys are playing politics with these trials, bad politics
| 351 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:37:29pm |
re: #349 TheMatrix31
Yeah biggest gathering of Armenians outside Armenia. Except for Hill street 90013/14.
| 353 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:38:31pm |
re: #345 TheMatrix31
Seriously I have made a living in no small part selling alloy for gold to Armenian jewelry makers.
| 354 |
albusteve Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:38:32pm |
Now, we see the reckoning: Obama’s gratuitous transfer of alien war criminals from a military court, where they were on the verge of ending the proceedings, to the civilian justice system, where they will be given the same rights and privileges as the American citizens they are pledged to kill. This will give the hard Left its promised feast. Its shock troops, such as the Center for Constitutional Rights, will gather up each new disclosure and add it to the purported war-crimes case they are urging foreign courts to bring against President Bush, his subordinates, and U.S. intelligence agents.
the gist of it...and turn a blind eye and say justice was served...assholes
| 355 |
solomonpanting Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:38:58pm |
| 356 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:39:13pm |
I hate Crooks and Liars but...
Palin attacks Obama and Biden for their 'lack of experience' -- and can't tell us why she can do the job better
Surprisingly tough interview. I like Palin's technique of just repeating catch phrases.
| 357 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:40:02pm |
re: #356 Killgore Trout
Surprisingly tough interview. I like Palin's technique of just repeating catch phrases.
Worked for Reagan, too.
| 358 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:40:07pm |
re: #355 solomonpanting
Near the LA river...
| 359 |
albusteve Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:40:34pm |
re: #356 Killgore Trout
I hate Crooks and Liars but...
Palin attacks Obama and Biden for their 'lack of experience' -- and can't tell us why she can do the job betterSurprisingly tough interview. I like Palin's technique of just repeating catch phrases.
AmIdol politics...the deadly catchphrase thrust!
| 360 |
Alan K. Henderson Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:41:11pm |
I tried twice to watch the video all the way through, but I couldn't even get halfway. The "ET" was too much misery to watch.
| 361 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:41:23pm |
re: #357 Cato the Elder
Reagan could think on his feet though. Palin, not so much.
| 362 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:42:10pm |
re: #357 Cato the Elder
Not to mention nearly every polit on a talk show...
| 363 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:42:17pm |
re: #361 Killgore Trout
Reagan could think on his feet though. Palin, not so much.
Reagan also had a good sense of humor.
| 364 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:42:30pm |
May I remind everybody who's so exercised at the horrible notion of a trial in public with defense attorneys and the like for the likes of KSM that Eichmann was given just exactly that in Jerusalem?
Eichmann!
He was allowed to wear clothing of his choice, too, and not dressed up like Hannibal Lecter for the gratification of the groundlings.
Quod erat demonstrandum.
| 365 |
J.S. Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:42:53pm |
re: #310 Gus 802
both Holder and President Obama spoke about KSM being executed (there was an article -- lost the source which mentioned that the other President which did the same thing with an accused was Richard Nixon. The Defense Attorneys then (on the first/second day of the trial (?)) held up Front Page Papers quoting Nixon, and then asked for a mistrial. It wasn't granted.)
| 366 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:43:04pm |
re: #344 Cato the Elder
Something's going on. Upthread there was another virus alert.
Are you a Mac or a PC?
I'm back on my wife's Linux laptop. The hit was to a WinXP PC. Bug was a
Genericdh! trojan, if I read it right.
| 367 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:43:52pm |
Why is Olbermann on my football?
| 368 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:44:07pm |
re: #363 Gus 802
Nixon is the only modern president I can think of that was humorless.
| 369 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:44:57pm |
re: #367 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Why is Olbermann on my football?
You're being punished for that thing you did.
| 370 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:45:01pm |
re: #368 Killgore Trout
Nixon is the only modern president I can think of that was humorless.
Umm...Carter, sense of humor? Does not compute.
| 372 |
albusteve Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:45:35pm |
re: #368 Killgore Trout
Nixon is the only modern president I can think of that was humorless.
Carter was a funny guy...yes?
| 373 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:45:36pm |
re: #364 Cato the Elder
May I remind everybody who's so exercised at the horrible notion of a trial in public with defense attorneys and the like for the likes of KSM that Eichmann was given just exactly that in Jerusalem?
Eichmann!
He was allowed to wear clothing of his choice, too, and not dressed up like Hannibal Lecter for the gratification of the groundlings.
Quod erat demonstrandum.
The Hannibal Lecter fantasy was only intended for comedic effect. ;)
| 374 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:46:40pm |
re: #367 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Good grief turn it off. Olbermann has as much relevance to football as Rush.
| 375 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:46:41pm |
re: #342 Gus 802
What was the warning message?
First it said it couldn't quarantine the above trojan, then said it had removed it.
It's scanning now, but McCaffee is falling to these rogue spyware sales bugs.
| 376 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:47:15pm |
re: #373 Gus 802
The Hannibal Lecter fantasy was only intended for comedic effect. ;)
Much like my idea from a few weeks ago with the prison cell that no matter which way you turn you are facing away from Mecca.
I thought it was funny...
Went over like a zeppelin made of lead.
| 377 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:47:38pm |
re: #368 Killgore Trout
Nixon is the only modern president I can think of that was humorless.
The happiest being when Duke Ellington played at the White House. Or when he did that spot on Laugh In.
| 378 |
Vicious Babushka Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:47:38pm |
re: #373 Gus 802
The Hannibal Lecter fantasy was only intended for comedic effect. ;)
Bobby Seale disrupted the "Chicago Seven" trial repeatedly, so the judge ordered him gagged and put in restraints. Not exactly Hannibal Lechter, but close.
| 379 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:47:50pm |
re: #374 Rightwingconspirator
Good grief turn it off. Olbermann has as much relevance to football as Rush.
One step ahead of you there... watching the end of the Wizard of Oz.
| 381 |
albusteve Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:48:22pm |
re: #377 Gus 802
The happiest being when Duke Ellington played at the White House. Or when he did that spot on Laugh In.
sock it to me!
| 382 |
Digital Display Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:48:33pm |
re: #375 Decatur Deb
First it said it couldn't quarantine the above trojan, then said it had removed it.
It's scanning now, but McCaffee is falling to these rogue spyware sales bugs.
Try this:
[Link: www.malwarebytes.org...]
Best of class and free
| 384 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:48:50pm |
re: #376 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Much like my idea from a few weeks ago with the prison cell that no matter which way you turn you are facing away from Mecca.
I thought it was funny...
Went over like a zeppelin made of lead.
Leaden dirigibles will do it all the time.
| 385 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:50:01pm |
re: #376 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Much like my idea from a few weeks ago with the prison cell that no matter which way you turn you are facing away from Mecca.
I thought it was funny...
Went over like a zeppelin made of lead.
I didn't see that, or I would have updinged it. It's truly funny.
[And all it would require would be a cell on a turntable.]
| 386 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:50:08pm |
re: #383 Cannadian Club Akbar
Oh, people got it.
| 387 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:50:17pm |
re: #375 Decatur Deb
First it said it couldn't quarantine the above trojan, then said it had removed it.
It's scanning now, but McCaffee is falling to these rogue spyware sales bugs.
My guess is that it came through one of the ads. Since we both got warnings I think yours confirms it.
| 389 |
rurality Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:51:31pm |
re: #327 Alouette
interesting that being a Yiddish speaker is the key. Thanks for all the input from everyone. I don't mean to seem clueless, but having lived in England and gotten pretty comfortable with the "C" word--the don't go there word for us women--I'm not sure what's OK...can I use the "C" word cause I have one... what a mess.
| 392 |
Gearhead Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:52:53pm |
re: #382 HoosierHoops
Try this:
[Link: www.malwarebytes.org...]
Best of class and free
Is there a specific link that's setting off the virus scanners? A compromised ad or something?
| 393 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:53:55pm |
Gotta go for a bit. Been fun as almost always...Nice to have Peace In Our Thread..
| 394 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:54:42pm |
re: #389 rurality
I never use the "C" word. Ever. Just me, I suppose.
| 395 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:55:06pm |
re: #392 Gearhead
Is there a specific link that's setting off the virus scanners? A compromised ad or something?
My last link was to the NY Daily News, perhaps 15 min before the hit.
| 396 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:55:41pm |
re: #389 rurality
No, really. You can't use it.
| 397 |
Vicious Babushka Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:56:11pm |
re: #389 rurality
interesting that being a Yiddish speaker is the key. Thanks for all the input from everyone. I don't mean to seem clueless, but having lived in England and gotten pretty comfortable with the "C" word--the don't go there word for us women--I'm not sure what's OK...can I use the "C" word cause I have one... what a mess.
Why would you even want to?
| 398 |
albusteve Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:57:04pm |
| 399 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:57:29pm |
Won't appear on LGF, gratefully.
| 400 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Nov 22, 2009 4:58:42pm |
re: #395 Decatur Deb
My last link was to the NY Daily News, perhaps 15 min before the hit.
Make that 45 minutes.
| 401 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:00:12pm |
Dorothy just said, "Oh, Auntie Em. There's no place like home."
chills...
| 402 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:01:20pm |
Did I mention I start a new job tomorrow? And sent out 4 resumes in the last hour?
| 403 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:01:20pm |
How the Grinch Stole Christmas is coming on.
Okay, I'll watch it.
You're a bad banana with a... greasy black peel!
| 404 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:02:02pm |
re: #401 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Dorothy just said, "Oh, Auntie Em. There's no place like home."
chills...
If you knew my family, you'd get chills of a different sort.
| 405 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:02:08pm |
re: #402 Cannadian Club Akbar
Employee loyalty is so important these days...
heh.
Hey! You ever get your money from that other job?
| 406 |
Gearhead Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:02:19pm |
re: #400 Decatur Deb
Make that 45 minutes.
It's plausible. There was a hacked ad on the NYT home page a couple of weeks ago. Same thing - rogue spyware. There's someone at my office who runs across one of those about once a month. Fortunately, I've trained him on how to get out of those without running the scan.
| 407 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:02:45pm |
re: #403 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
How the Grinch Stole Christmas is coming on.
Okay, I'll watch it.
You're a bad banana with a... greasy black peel!
I'm the mother fucker who stole the Grinch. Hahahahahahaha... put that in your stocking and smoke it. I'm already tired of Xmas. And I am going to shoot the next angel that get any wings.
| 408 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:02:49pm |
re: #402 Cannadian Club Akbar
Did I mention I start a new job tomorrow? And sent out 4 resumes in the last hour?
That's pretty much what you have to do these days.
"Employment for life"? Try "for the moment".
| 409 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:03:16pm |
re: #405 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Yes. But no smile. Heh.
| 410 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:03:47pm |
re: #406 Gearhead
It's plausible. There was a hacked ad on the NYT home page a couple of weeks ago. Same thing - rogue spyware. There's someone at my office who runs across one of those about once a month. Fortunately, I've trained him on how to get out of those without running the scan.
Those suckers are collecting emoney. Someone should be able to track it.
| 411 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:04:02pm |
re: #407 Walter L. Newton
I'm the mother fucker who stole the Grinch. Hahahahahahaha... put that in your stocking and smoke it. I'm already tired of Xmas. And I am going to shoot the next angel that get any wings.
Instead of a lump of coal you put a meteorite in the Christmas stocking. ;)
| 412 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:04:08pm |
re: #404 Cato the Elder
If you knew my family, you'd get chills of a different sort.
"So my family decided this year, since Christmas is just not stressful enough, we'll combine it with a family reunion. There's nothing like a family reunion to remind you why your moved three fucking thousand miles away from your family."
-Diane Ford
| 413 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:04:48pm |
re: #402 Cannadian Club Akbar
Did I mention I start a new job tomorrow? And sent out 4 resumes in the last hour?
Depending on the potential employer, it may help if you spell the word correctly: résumé. What the hell is a "resume", anyway - a request for re-employment after you've been laid off? ;^)
| 414 |
Dancing along the light of day Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:04:58pm |
re: #402 Cannadian Club Akbar
Did I mention I start a new job tomorrow? And sent out 4 resumes in the last hour?
Congratulations!
| 415 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:04:59pm |
re: #409 Cannadian Club Akbar
Can't spend a smile!
| 416 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:06:37pm |
Later all, I've got cyberpuke to clean up.
| 417 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:07:38pm |
re: #411 Gus 802
Instead of a lump of coal you put a meteorite in the Christmas stocking. ;)
Yep, I've been through "It's A Wonderful Life" 10 times in two weeks, and I don't care to listen to it again. And I have until Dec. 20. I'm going to scream.
| 418 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:10:13pm |
re: #417 Walter L. Newton
Yep, I've been through "It's A Wonderful Life" 10 times in two weeks, and I don't care to listen to it again. And I have until Dec. 20. I'm going to scream.
10 times? Wow. I usually watch it once a year if even that.
The Bishop's Wife is a good alternative holiday movie. Cary Grant, Loretta Young, David Niven...
| 419 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:10:49pm |
re: #418 Gus 802
10 times? Wow. I usually watch it once a year if even that.
The Bishop's Wife is a good alternative holiday movie. Cary Grant, Loretta Young, David Niven...
I'm in it, were doing it at the theatre, already, until Dec. 20th.
| 420 |
rurality Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:11:29pm |
re: #397 Alouette
I'm not saying I want to. I got over flinching and foaming while living in London. It is less than 'bitch' over there, and an A-bomb over here. I've only used it to describe one woman and in this case it is the 11 on the Marshall Amp and sometimes you need more than 10 for awfulness/volume.
| 421 |
Gus Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:11:48pm |
re: #419 Walter L. Newton
I'm in it, were doing it at the theatre, already, until Dec. 20th.
Oh. OK, that would make more sense. Thought maybe someone at the house had a thing for "It's a Wonderful Life."
| 422 |
J.S. Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:14:52pm |
re: #303 austin_blue
Ah, so then you're of the Mosaic persuasion?
/
| 423 |
b_snark Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:31:39pm |
re: #40 ausador
As half Hispanic in origin myself I declare a vendetta upon the onion for their blatant racism and cultural insensitivity. My first act of retaliation will be to mail them a pecan pie with all the pecans removed, I will relish knowing the bitter disappointment they will feel when they open the box!
/
How can you be so cruel as to remove all the pecans. Is there any crime out there that really warrants such a move?
| 424 |
b_snark Sun, Nov 22, 2009 5:52:50pm |
re: #143 tradewind
Oh, snap. He really got down to it.
A pampered center of someone's universe does not a strong president make.
Obama was pampered?
By whom?
| 425 |
b_snark Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:15:53pm |
re: #218 _RememberTonyC
Military tribunals would have been able to guarantee FAIR TRIALS for KSM, et al. I don't give two shits what Holder and Obama say, their REAL message is that civilian court must be more fair. And the reason? They either dislike or distrust all things associated with the military.
Yah, either that or they want to take part in the rule of law or at least appear to be doing so.
How anyone can conclude that it is being done because there is a distrust in the military just baffles me, especially considering there are a number of explanations that make at least if not more sense given the political context.
Mind you, I guess this requires the recognition of the difference between the ultimate and proximate causes.
Just as an afterthought and not a snark, don't most democracies give civilian law more import than military law? I thought there are usually safeguards to keep the military from taking control of the government.
| 426 |
b_snark Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:40:36pm |
re: #220 Rightwingconspirator
As does their anti Bush, anti terror war, frankly anti western civilization base.
Anti western civilization? Is this another 'if you aren't with me you're against me' dilemmas?
If I recognize that western culture is not perfect, has committed stupid mistakes in the past and that it is now reaping the benefits of those errors, that means I am anti-western? That is a helluva sharp right turn.
Or is it maybe that the realization of tit for tat suggests different tactics in inter-culture interaction that may reduce future errors?
| 427 |
Spare O'Lake Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:44:15pm |
re: #413 Cato the Elder
Depending on the potential employer, it may help if you spell the word correctly: résumé. What the hell is a "resume", anyway - a request for re-employment after you've been laid off? ;^)
In Canada at least the correct spelling is "resumé" with one accent, not two.
[Link: crystalresumes.com...]
| 428 |
b_snark Sun, Nov 22, 2009 6:52:36pm |
re: #344 Cato the Elder
Something's going on. Upthread there was another virus alert.
Are you a Mac or a PC?
A Linux.
| 429 |
shai_au Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:06:54pm |
re: #273 Cato the Elder
Of course they will plead not guilty, and of course they will try to express their political views, and of course it is the lawyer's duty to further that intent.
Let them. Bring it. Their views should be very interesting to the world at large.
Bit late to the party, but I am in full agreement here. There's no reason to be afraid of anything they might say. The only people who will be "convinced" to join whatever insanity they're going to spout will have already been there for some time, so to speak.
Give them a full platform to speak, then beat them down with a counter-argument.
| 430 |
Alan K. Henderson Mon, Nov 23, 2009 5:05:06pm |
I finally put my finger on what makes the video so vile. Riddle me this: what's the difference between the Onion skit and the average Bernie Madoff joke?
Both revolve around a pretty traumatic misfortune. Both poke fun at the perps. But Madoff jokes don't make fun of the victims' trauma.
May the Onion's studios be infested with a thousand noisy chihuahuas.
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