American Creationists Collaborate with Turkish Islamists

World • Views: 2,585

About a year and a half ago I reported on the collaboration between American creationist groups like the Discovery Institute and Islamist creationists, to spread their atavistic nonsense in Turkey: Audio: The Discovery Institute Collaborates with Turkish Creationists. I got a lot of hate mail over this one from creationists, accusing me of “equating” creationism with radical Islam.

But recently, the Washington Post caught up with this story, in a piece that sheds more light on these disturbing connections: In Turkey, fertile ground for creationism.

ISTANBUL — Sema Ergezen teaches biology to Turkish students interested in teaching science themselves, and she has long struggled with her students’ ignorance of, and sometimes hostility to, the notion of evolution.

But she was taken aback when several of her Marmara University students recently accused her of being an atheist, or worse, for teaching anything but the doctrine that God created the Earth and everything on it.

“They said I was a liar if I called myself a Muslim because I also accepted evolution,” she said.

What especially disturbed — and amused — the veteran professor was that the arguments for creationism presented by some of the students came directly from the country where she was educated in the biological sciences years before — the United States. Translated and adapted for a Muslim society, the purported proofs that Darwinism and evolution were wrong came directly from American proponents of Christian creationism and its less overtly religious offshoot, intelligent design.

Ergezen’s experience has become increasingly common. While creationism and intelligent design appear to be in some retreat in the United States, they have blossomed within Muslim Turkey. With direct and indirect help from American foes of evolution, similarly-minded Turks have aggressively made the case that Charles Darwin’s theory is scientifically wrong and is the underlying source of most of the world’s conflicts because it excludes God from human affairs.

“Darwin is the worst Fascist there has ever been, and the worst racist history has ever witnessed,” writes Harun Yahya, the most assertive and best-known critic of evolution in Turkey, and long a favorite of more conservative American creationists.

The Post’s Marc Kaufman singles out the same creationist groups I identified in my 2008 post:

To John Morris, president of the Institute for Creation Research in Dallas, however, the news could hardly be more encouraging.

“Why I’m so interested in seeing creationism succeed in Turkey is that evolution is an evil concept that has done such damage to society,” said Morris, a Christian who has led several searches for Noah’s Ark in eastern Turkey. Members of his group have addressed Turkish conferences numerous times.

The Discovery Institute of Seattle, which researches and promotes intelligent design as an alternative to creationism and evolution, also sent speakers to Turkey after being invited by the Istanbul municipal government in 2007. President Bruce Chapman said the institute helped bring Turkish evolution critic Mustafa Akyol to a 2005 Kansas school board hearing on teaching critiques of evolution.

Note that after my 2008 post, Bruce Chapman of the Discovery Institute wrote a sleazy, deceptive hit piece on me at the Discovery Institute’s blog, calling my exposure of their Turkish connections a “smear,” “slander,” and a “fantasy:” When Disco Dudes Attack.

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283 comments
1 Nemesis6  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 1:44:13pm

Paint me surprised...

2 Gus  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 1:45:07pm

American Dominionists in Uganda and American Creationists in Turkey.

I see a pattern here.

3 Ben Hur  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 1:45:18pm

The troika is complete.

4 cliffster  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 1:45:38pm

re: #2 Gus 802

American Dominionists in Uganda and American Creationists in Turkey.

I see a pattern here.

People suck? Yes, I saw that same pattern.

5 The Sanity Inspector  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 1:47:21pm

It's something to threaten misbehaving children with: "If you don't learn to tell the difference between what's true, and what you wish were true, you'll grow up to be a creationist!"

6 allegro  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 1:47:36pm

Ignorance by choice will always seek out support for being ignorant by other ignorant believers. (I think that is the worst sentence I've written all week.)

7 Sharmuta  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 1:47:58pm
Note that after my 2008 post, Bruce Chapman of the Discovery Institute wrote a sleazy, deceptive hit piece on me at the Discovery Institute’s blog, calling my exposure of their Turkish connections a “smear,” “slander,” and a “fantasy:”

Pretty rich for a creationists to go with "fantasy" as a criticism when that's what they're promoting.

8 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 1:48:41pm
Speaking in his home and television studio overlooking the Bosporus, Oktar asserted responsibility for "defeating" Darwinism in Turkey and said that Americans had helped him do it. But as he sees it, the student has become the teacher. He has created a far-reaching anti-evolution empire, he said, while American creationists and advocates of intelligent design still struggle to be heard.


No surprise.

9 SixDegrees  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 1:49:28pm

No surprises here. I've said many times that there is little difference between the religious right fundamentalists promoting creationism and the Taliban. Both seek exactly the same end: a theocratic state where dissenting religions are strictly muzzled, expelled or forcibly converted. The overlap when it comes to the suppression of science and other enlightenment-era schools of thought; oppression of women; ultimate view of world conquest under the banner of their faith and imposition of law based on their theological texts is nearly complete. They are almost indistinguishable, except for trivial differences in tactics.

10 Nemesis6  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 1:49:32pm

re: #6 allegro

Whether consciously or subconsciously; when you're of a particular strong opinion, there is a fixed amount of jury-rigging involved in the logical deduction of facts that don't fit your views.

11 allegro  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 1:50:52pm

re: #10 Nemesis6

Now THAT was a great sentence! What you said.

12 KernelPanic  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 1:51:31pm

Cognitive dissonance is nothing new in Turkey. They've been pretending that the genocidal murder of 1.5 million Armenians in 1915 never happened as well.

13 The Sanity Inspector  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 1:51:37pm

Sorry to go OT so soon, but this is interesting. The Tiger Woods crash, as re-enacted by SIMS:

14 Locker  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 1:52:04pm

If the rubes are wise to your con, move to a new location.

15 bosforus  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 1:52:06pm

re: #8 Killgore Trout

No surprise.

I don't feel bad that I'm overlooked by this guy.

Speaking in his home and television studio overlooking the Bosporus...
16 tradewind  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 1:54:09pm

re: #13 The Sanity Inspector
Arggh.
Nothing about this is interesting. I'm already weary of Tiger Woodsgate. Hope they leave the poor people the hell alone.

17 The Sanity Inspector  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 1:54:44pm

re: #9 SixDegrees

No surprises here. I've said many times that there is little difference between the religious right fundamentalists promoting creationism and the Taliban. Both seek exactly the same end: a theocratic state where dissenting religions are strictly muzzled, expelled or forcibly converted. The overlap when it comes to the suppression of science and other enlightenment-era schools of thought; oppression of women; ultimate view of world conquest under the banner of their faith and imposition of law based on their theological texts is nearly complete. They are almost indistinguishable, except for trivial differences in tactics.

Trivial differences such as the American religious right refraining from executing women in soccer stadiums. Thus far. Knock on wood.
/

18 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 1:54:45pm

re: #15 bosforus

heh

19 DaddyG  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 1:55:02pm

re: #13 The Sanity Inspector That is so great! Both versions! Hahahahahahaha!

20 Sharmuta  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 1:55:07pm
To John Morris, president of the Institute for Creation Research in Dallas, however, the news could hardly be more encouraging.

“Why I’m so interested in seeing creationism succeed in Turkey is that evolution is an evil concept that has done such damage to society,” said Morris, a Christian who has led several searches for Noah’s Ark in eastern Turkey. Members of his group have addressed Turkish conferences numerous times

John Morris is the son of Henry Morris, father of modern creation science:

Morris wrote in The Remarkable Birth of Planet Earth (1972) that the craters of the moon were caused by a cosmic battle between the forces of Satan and the armies of the archangel Michael. From the biblical point of view, this is speculative. David Vogel, Professor of Biology at Creighton University, reviewed the book explaining "his theology is shallow; his exegesis is maddening; his science is wrong; and he tops it off by offending millions of Bible-believing Christians who also accept evolution."

Morris also had some views inline with scientific racism:

Morris wrote that the descendants of Ham "possibly" include "all of the earth's 'colored' races". Morris wrote that they have been "[p]ossessed of a genetic character concerned mainly with mundane matters" compared to the "Japhethites" who have a comparatively "intellectual and philosophical acumen".

21 tradewind  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 1:55:47pm

re: #9 SixDegrees
Yeah, the pesky tactical thing. Kind of puts a wrench in your comparison.///

22 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 1:57:30pm

re: #21 tradewind

Yeah, the pesky tactical thing. Kind of puts a wrench in your comparison.///

Just makes them more insidious, by hanging out just below the radar.

23 SixDegrees  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 1:57:58pm

re: #17 The Sanity Inspector

Trivial differences such as the American religious right refraining from executing women in soccer stadiums. Thus far. Knock on wood.
/

As already noted, a difference in tactics, not in goals.

And downstairs, we have a thread devoted to plans by the Christian religious right in Africa to implement criminal penalties for being gay, including execution...

24 Ben Hur  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 1:59:24pm

re: #13 The Sanity Inspector

Sorry to go OT so soon, but this is interesting. The Tiger Woods crash, as re-enacted by SIMS:


[Video]

His name is no longer Tiger.

It's Cheetah.

LOL!

25 Kragar  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 1:59:30pm

re: #17 The Sanity Inspector

Trivial differences such as the American religious right refraining from executing women in soccer stadiums. Thus far. Knock on wood.
/

We'll never see that in America.

Not anywhere near enough soccer stadiums to make it practical.

///

26 tradewind  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:01:30pm

re: #23 SixDegrees
What we really have to watch out for are those creationists with box cutters aiming at the Pentagon.///
The similarities are just frightening.///

27 Locker  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:01:42pm

re: #16 tradewind

Arggh.
Nothing about this is interesting. I'm already weary of Tiger Woodsgate. Hope they leave the poor people the hell alone.

My wife didn't seem to appreciate my reference to a change in our dinner plans from home made pasta to frozen meals as "Ziti-gate" but it was fun to say anyway. I'm wondering what's going to happen though if some day soon it's discover that there are Canadian listening devices in the fencing of the access way to the White House. Could they seriously call it "Gate-gate"?

28 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:01:48pm

Someone just sent me this tweet:

LEAVE THE PARTY! YOU ARE A RINO! WE DON'T WANT YOU!

Here's his Twitter page: [Link: twitter.com...]

Reading through his/her other tweets ("And for that matter, Islam should be banned too"), I thought it might be a troll faking right wing craziness. I mean, come on. People can't really be that astoundingly hateful and dense, can they?

Yep, they sure can. Here's its website: [Link: bit.ly...]

29 SixDegrees  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:01:52pm

re: #25 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

We'll never see that in America.

Not anywhere near enough soccer stadiums to make it practical.

///

Well, there's the Pontiac Silverdome. And just a couple of weeks ago, you could have gotten it cheap - $500,000 and change, allegedly for a Canadian expansion soccer team.

If you had offered a million, they probably would have thrown in the Lions and the Wolverines.

30 tradewind  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:02:40pm

re: #24 Ben Hur
It's the end of Tiger, by the tail.///

31 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:02:52pm

re: #26 tradewind

They're doing a good job trashing science education without the box cutters.

32 brookly red  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:03:02pm

This is kinda weird. I mean strict Islam is creationist to start with (except when it's enemies evolved from apes & pigs of course) so who is teaching who? Does this make any sense.

33 SixDegrees  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:03:18pm

re: #28 Charles

Someone just sent me this tweet:

Here's his Twitter page: [Link: twitter.com...]

Reading through his/her other tweets ("And for that matter, Islam should be banned too"), I thought it might be a troll faking right wing craziness. I mean, come on. People can't really be that astoundingly hateful and dense, can they?

Yep, they sure can. Here's its website: [Link: bit.ly...]

To paraphrase (only slightly) from their website: Jesus is Lord, and don't you forget it!

Yeesh.

34 Kragar  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:03:18pm

re: #28 Charles

Someone just sent me this tweet:


Here's his Twitter page: [Link: twitter.com...]

Reading through his/her other tweets ("And for that matter, Islam should be banned too"), I thought it might be a troll faking right wing craziness. I mean, come on. People can't really be that astoundingly hateful and dense, can they?

Yep, they sure can. Here's its website: [Link: bit.ly...]

Did they kind of miss the point where you had left them?

35 The Sanity Inspector  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:03:29pm

re: #23 SixDegrees

As already noted, a difference in tactics, not in goals.[...]

Fine. But if I were you, I'd climb down from the "trivial" assertion. There's an infinity of difference between the actions of homicidal jihad-bots and James Dobson.

36 Sharmuta  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:03:29pm

re: #28 Charles

Someone just sent me this tweet:

Here's his Twitter page: [Link: twitter.com...]

Reading through his/her other tweets ("And for that matter, Islam should be banned too"), I thought it might be a troll faking right wing craziness. I mean, come on. People can't really be that astoundingly hateful and dense, can they?

Yep, they sure can. Here's its website: [Link: bit.ly...]

"Concerned Christians" seem to go our drinking a lot based on their photo feed.

37 tradewind  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:03:49pm

re: #28 Charles
What party is he talking about?

38 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:03:51pm

re: #28 Charles

Nom de Dieu. The Party will be back when THAT guy is the RINO. Until then, i'm undercover.

39 bosforus  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:04:30pm

re: #28 Charles

Jesus is Lord of this website
Is that something like a sysadmin?

40 Sharmuta  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:04:32pm

re: #28 Charles

I liked this tweet:

Evolution is Socialism

lmao

41 Gearhead  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:04:35pm

re: #24 Ben Hur

His name is no longer Tiger.

It's Cheetah.

LOL!

It seems oddly fitting that the world's greatest golfer would be gotten into trouble by his putter.

42 MandyManners  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:04:49pm

re: #20 Sharmuta

craters of the moon were caused by a cosmic battle between the forces of Satan and the armies of the archangel Michael

WTF? This sounds like some fantasy out of the Middle Ages.

43 allegro  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:05:38pm

re: #42 MandyManners

But what great drama.

44 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:05:51pm

re: #35 The Sanity Inspector

Fine. But if I were you, I'd climb down from the "trivial" assertion. There's an infinity of difference between the actions of homicidal jihad-bots and James Dobson.

And in addition, an entire world of difference between the silent masses who say nothing in the former instance, and the masses (like me) who rise up to heatedly condemn the Ugandas.

Extremists abound. The proof in the pudding is how the "normalists" respond to the extremists in their midst.

45 tradewind  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:06:12pm

re: #27 Locker
Canadian listening devices?
Oh... so that's what those tin cans linked with string are doing there!///

46 freetoken  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:06:20pm

re: #28 Charles

Sadly there are many in the US who believe similarly and act like that person.

47 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:07:02pm

re: #42 MandyManners

craters of the moon were caused by a cosmic battle between the forces of Satan and the armies of the archangel Michael

WTF? This sounds like some fantasy out of the Middle Ages.

That would be a neat action sequence in a movie...

48 Ben Hur  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:07:03pm

re: #42 MandyManners


Morris wrote in The Remarkable Birth of Planet Earth (1972) that the craters of the moon were caused by a cosmic battle between the forces of Satan and the armies of the archangel Michael. From the biblical point of view, this is speculative.

Ya think?

49 Gus  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:07:21pm

re: #28 Charles

Someone just sent me this tweet:

Here's his Twitter page: [Link: twitter.com...]

Reading through his/her other tweets ("And for that matter, Islam should be banned too"), I thought it might be a troll faking right wing craziness. I mean, come on. People can't really be that astoundingly hateful and dense, can they?

Yep, they sure can. Here's its website: [Link: bit.ly...]

I almost thought he might be troll but then again there's always the "No True Scotsman" factor. Plus, after seeing some of the videos from the Tea Parties there are actually people like this in this country. His Tweets seem to reflect common extremes that bubbled to the surface after the election of Obama.

50 tradewind  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:07:54pm

re: #41 Gearhead
Putter? I think the problem was overuse of the woods.

51 bosforus  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:08:23pm

The content on that person's site reminds me of the site a few of us here were talking about yesterday - black male felon dot com. Well, it got the axe. Both its wordpress page and its domain name are history. Thank goodness. That thing was a cesspool.

52 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:08:33pm

re: #42 MandyManners

I had a friend who believed that dinosaur bones and fossils were from the angels that were kicked out of heaven. Seriously.

I backed slooowly away.

53 Sharmuta  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:08:50pm

re: #49 Gus 802

I almost thought he might be troll but then again there's always the "No True Scotsman" factor. Plus, after seeing some of the videos from the Tea Parties there are actually people like this in this country. His Tweets seem to reflect common extremes that bubbled to the surface after the election of Obama.

She. The admin at the website is a female.

54 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:09:06pm

re: #52 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I had a friend who believed that dinosaur bones and fossils were from the angels that were kicked out of heaven. Seriously.

I backed slooowly away.

Those must've been some scary angels...

55 SixDegrees  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:09:27pm

re: #26 tradewind

What we really have to watch out for are those creationists with box cutters aiming at the Pentagon.///
The similarities are just frightening.///

They are every bit as determined to bring about their theocratic state as al Quaida is determined to bring about theirs.

For a reminder of just how frightening the fusion of church and state power can be, take a look at the Constitution, which was written by people who had experienced it firsthand.

We're talking in this case about people who snub those with AIDS, insisting that they deserve the disease and it's consequences because it's a punishment sent from God in response to their sins.

56 MandyManners  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:09:31pm

re: #43 allegro

But what great drama.

Where does he get that crap?

57 brookly red  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:09:47pm

re: #50 tradewind

Putter? I think the problem was overuse of the woods.

the problem was getting caught or in this case played.

58 bosforus  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:09:55pm

re: #52 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I had a friend who believed that dinosaur bones and fossils were from the angels that were kicked out of heaven. Seriously.

I backed slooowly away.

"I have a sacred mission for you!"

59 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:09:56pm

re: #54 Varek Raith

Those must've been some scary angels...

Kind of like "Transformers" I guess.

60 Gus  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:10:10pm

re: #53 Sharmuta

She. The admin at the website is a female.

Ah, OK. I thought maybe they were unrelated and just a link to his or her favorite site.

61 MandyManners  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:11:17pm

re: #48 Ben Hur

Ya think?

Teaching this as doctrine is clearly anti-Biblical.

62 SixDegrees  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:11:19pm

re: #35 The Sanity Inspector

Fine. But if I were you, I'd climb down from the "trivial" assertion. There's an infinity of difference between the actions of homicidal jihad-bots and James Dobson.

No, there really isn't. Their goals are identical, and equally odious. I don't see how the manner in which such repugnant oppression is brought about make any difference.

63 Sharmuta  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:11:29pm

re: #60 Gus 802

Ah, OK. I thought maybe they were unrelated and just a link to his or her favorite site.

Maybe. The blog's admin is a female, though.

64 MandyManners  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:12:01pm

re: #52 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I had a friend who believed that dinosaur bones and fossils were from the angels that were kicked out of heaven. Seriously.

I backed slooowly away.

How old was this person? Could she/he cite where in the Bible it says this?

65 John Neverbend  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:12:26pm

re: #42 MandyManners

craters of the moon were caused by a cosmic battle between the forces of Satan and the armies of the archangel Michael

Hah! Morris is sooo wrong. Everybody knows the craters were caused by a stray hydrogen bomb dropped by Xenu in his attempts to cure the earth of over-population.

66 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:12:26pm

re: #63 Sharmuta

Maybe. The blog's admin is a female, though.

Maybe a trannie?

67 SixDegrees  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:12:43pm

re: #39 bosforus

Jesus is Lord of this website
Is that something like a sysadmin?

Jesus has root.

68 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:13:03pm

re: #64 MandyManners

How old was this person? Could she/he cite where in the Bible it says this?

He was 30 ish... He got better!

69 badger1970  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:13:05pm

re: #42 MandyManners

or Scientology... Unfortunately, Dana White wasn't there to get a PPV event./

70 allegro  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:13:07pm

re: #64 MandyManners

I've heard is said that fossils are just God's test of belief cuz the world really isn't more than 6,000 years old. Is this much different?

71 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:13:19pm

re: #28 Charles
SNIP
"A place for concerned Christians to gather. The End Times are heading for us like a freight train. In these latter days we need eachother."

Bleech.

72 badger1970  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:14:40pm

re: #71 Floral Giraffe

Where's Kirk Cameron when you need him?//

Apocalyptic theology is just as bad as creationism.

73 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:15:04pm

re: #52 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I had a friend who believed that dinosaur bones and fossils were from the angels that were kicked out of heaven. Seriously.

I backed slooowly away.

Reminds me of a street preacher I used to know. He owned a hole-in-the-wall bookstore just down the street from where I lived. One day I saw him standing on the sidewalk chanting and gesticulating toward a quite ordinary car that happened to be parked in front of his place. He paused and I asked him what he was doing. He pointed wildly to the car and repeated his chant "In the name of Jesus, I cast you out."
He paused and, master of articulation that I am, I said, "Huh?"
He pointed again and exclaimed, "Can't you see? CAN'T YOU SEE?" I shook my head again and he pointed in apparent exasperation to the car's nameplate. Then I understood. I was a Dodge Demon.

74 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:15:13pm

re: #70 allegro

I've heard is said that fossils are just God's test of belief cuz the world really isn't more than 6,000 years old. Is this much different?

I hate that stuff. As if it were more pure to say that God is a liar (for leaving all the false evidence around) than to say that God is God and evolution is science.

75 John Neverbend  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:15:17pm

re: #52 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I had a friend who believed that dinosaur bones and fossils were from the angels that were kicked out of heaven. Seriously.

I backed slooowly away.

Actually, I think your friend was quoting from Ray Comfort's newly edited version of Paradise Lost.

76 tradewind  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:15:42pm

re: #55 SixDegrees
Yeah. It's really amazing that that fundamentalist Christian president George Bush found it within himself to launch such a mighty effort to combat HIV/ AIDS within the continent of Africa.

77 allegro  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:15:52pm

re: #72 badger1970

Apocalyptic theology is just as bad as creationism.

Much worse when they have their feet on the End Times freight train gas pedal.

78 Sharmuta  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:16:36pm

It was the Institute for Creation Research that was trying to get Texas to approve their bogus Creation Science degrees.

79 SixDegrees  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:16:43pm

re: #70 allegro

I've heard is said that fossils are just God's test of belief cuz the world really isn't more than 6,000 years old. Is this much different?

Or that they're tricks planted by the Devil to confuse men's minds and faith.

Heaven forbid that they might be exactly what they appear to be - the remains of ancient animals, plants and other organisms. Or that an infinite and all-powerful God might choose to perform His creation using something other than a magic wand, or whatever it is He's supposed to have done - a description the Bible rather pointedly leaves out.

80 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:17:00pm

re: #72 badger1970

Where's Kirk Cameron when you need him?//

Apocalyptic theology is just as bad as creationism.

You think? I would categorize creationism as fantasy + denial of reality, whereas apocalyptic theology would just be fantasy. Although the two probably coexist nearly unilaterally in the brain...you believe one = you believe the other...

81 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:17:26pm

From the article at the top:

But she was taken aback when several of her Marmara University students recently accused her of being an atheist, or worse, for teaching anything but the doctrine that God created the Earth and everything on it.

and

He and a revolving group of about 30 writers and young scientists have produced more than 200 widely distributed books and videos attacking evolution as equivalent to atheism, communism and worse.

What's "worse"? Do we have to wait for the sequel?

82 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:17:57pm
83 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:18:08pm

re: #79 SixDegrees

The Bible leaves it out because we can figure it out on our own, imho.

84 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:18:27pm

re: #28 Charles

You probably drove more traffic there today, than they've ever had before!

85 ED 209  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:18:57pm

re: #80 Aceofwhat?

You think? I would categorize creationism as fantasy + denial of reality, whereas apocalyptic theology would just be fantasy. Although the two probably coexist nearly unilaterally in the brain...you believe one = you believe the other...

Fixed that for ya'.

86 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:19:12pm

re: #73 Shiplord Kirel

Reminds me of a street preacher I used to know. He owned a hole-in-the-wall bookstore just down the street from where I lived. One day I saw him standing on the sidewalk chanting and gesticulating toward a quite ordinary car that happened to be parked in front of his place. He paused and I asked him what he was doing. He pointed wildly to the car and repeated his chant "In the name of Jesus, I cast you out."
He paused and, master of articulation that I am, I said, "Huh?"
He pointed again and exclaimed, "Can't you see? CAN'T YOU SEE?" I shook my head again and he pointed in apparent exasperation to the car's nameplate. Then I understood. I was a Dodge Demon.

Maybe he should have hit it with a Hyundai Santa Fe.

87 cliffster  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:19:31pm

re: #28 Charles

Someone just sent me this tweet:

Here's his Twitter page: [Link: twitter.com...]

Reading through his/her other tweets ("And for that matter, Islam should be banned too"), I thought it might be a troll faking right wing craziness. I mean, come on. People can't really be that astoundingly hateful and dense, can they?

Yep, they sure can. Here's its website: [Link: bit.ly...]

Jesus is Lord of this website, it declares. Right there next to an advertisement for match.com.

88 ryannon  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:20:14pm

re: #65 John Neverbend

Hah! Morris is sooo wrong. Everybody knows the craters were caused by a stray hydrogen bomb dropped by Xenu in his attempts to cure the earth of over-population.

'Zat you, L. Ron?

89 SixDegrees  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:20:35pm

re: #76 tradewind

Yeah. It's really amazing that that fundamentalist Christian president George Bush found it within himself to launch such a mighty effort to combat HIV/ AIDS within the continent of Africa.

Good for him.

Assholish of you to attempt to put words in my mouth and apply my comments to all Christians. But I guess when you can't actually conduct an argument, you're forced to start making things up.

I'd guess it's because you're suddenly uncomfortable with certain elements within the Christian community that are striking a little close to home. But I'll let you work such things out for yourself.

90 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:21:30pm

re: #65 John Neverbend

Slab Hardchest!

91 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:22:04pm

Hi, all. I went mildy berserk with righteous wrath two threads back, and then the school bell rang. A few people seem to have been upset by what I said, apparently believing that my anger was directed at conservatives in general--so being me, I've added a slightly more moderate coda at the bottom of that thread, trying to explain my thoughts in a cooler way.

Please return to discussion of Turks.

92 badger1970  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:22:11pm

re: #80 Aceofwhat?

I would have to clarify that. If a person wants or believes the world is going to end then he is basically saying his life sucks. A creationist on the other hand is searching for a way to deny his life sucks but wants to make others miserable by denying reality.

93 tradewind  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:22:13pm

re: #79 SixDegrees
Exactly. I've never understood people who profess faith in God yet want to somehow box Him in with parameters that are human in origin.

94 allegro  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:22:17pm

The biggest thing that made me reject religion as a little kid was that it was all about fear. The religious people around me (some in my own family) always talked about how I was going to burn in hell and stuff for the smallest things. I thought that really sucked. I find it entirely sad to see so many people living in such states of fear, even if the Demon car is pretty hilarious.

95 bosforus  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:22:25pm

re: #90 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Slab Hardchest!

Death by snicker-snag!
-Watched that one over Thxgiving.

96 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:22:57pm

Yikes. That tweet from the "concerned Christian" was just the first of five crazy 140-character rants.

I just blocked it.

97 ryannon  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:22:58pm

re: #73 Shiplord Kirel

Reminds me of a street preacher I used to know. He owned a hole-in-the-wall bookstore just down the street from where I lived. One day I saw him standing on the sidewalk chanting and gesticulating toward a quite ordinary car that happened to be parked in front of his place. He paused and I asked him what he was doing. He pointed wildly to the car and repeated his chant "In the name of Jesus, I cast you out."
He paused and, master of articulation that I am, I said, "Huh?"
He pointed again and exclaimed, "Can't you see? CAN'T YOU SEE?" I shook my head again and he pointed in apparent exasperation to the car's nameplate. Then I understood. I was a Dodge Demon.

Could be worse. Imagine if you were a Yugo.

So what kind of mileage are you getting?

98 osprey34229  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:23:05pm

Speaking of faith based ideas old Algore
just canceled his speech in Copenhagen.
No reason given. What could this mean??

99 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:23:14pm

re: #2 Gus 802

American Dominionists in Uganda and American Creationists in Turkey.

I see a pattern here.

I don't like it, either. I thought we were supposed to be POST-colonialist now.

//Oh, dear.

100 The Sanity Inspector  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:24:41pm

re: #50 tradewind

Putter? I think the problem was overuse of the woods.

At least it wasn't as bad as O.J., who had a horrible slice.

/denounces self.

101 SixDegrees  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:24:44pm

re: #83 Aceofwhat?

The Bible leaves it out because we can figure it out on our own, imho.

Yes. We do come equipped with brains, and powerful intellectual tools to help bring them to bear.

102 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:24:57pm

re: #28 Charles

Their sign up page is pretty invasive.

Full Name *

Profile Photo

Upload a Photo (GIF, JPG or PNG; limit 10MB)

Gender
Male Female Don't Display
Country *

City and State *Private

What religion and denomination are you? *Private

How did you hear of our site? *Private

Enter the name of the person who referred you *Private

Who is your favorite disciple ?

Tell us about yourself

Halfway tempted to fill it out and see what happens.

103 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:25:04pm

re: #85 ED 209

Fixed that for ya'.

Tsk, tsk. So then what do you follow? the Personal Creed of Ed209?

104 tradewind  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:25:13pm

re: #89 SixDegrees
Not what I was doing. But not all believing Christians, even fundamentalists, want people with HIV/AIDS to ESAD, or think they deserve it.
Actually, my point was to show how ironic it is that the most conservative president in recent times was the one who gave the most support for AIDS prevention and treatment in Africa as compared to the feel-your-pain left.

105 brookly red  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:25:16pm

re: #98 osprey34229

Speaking of faith based ideas old Algore
just canceled his speech in Copenhagen.
No reason given. What could this mean??

there's no money to be made?

106 bosforus  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:25:22pm

re: #98 osprey34229

Speaking of faith based ideas old Algore
just canceled his speech in Copenhagen.
No reason given. What could this mean??

Well, one's thing for sure. It obviously proves whatever point you're trying to make.

107 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:25:24pm

re: #17 The Sanity Inspector

Trivial differences such as the American religious right refraining from executing women in soccer stadiums. Thus far. Knock on wood.
/

With this business in Uganda, that line may be...slipping...

108 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:25:33pm

re: #98 osprey34229

Had to share a plane?

109 John Neverbend  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:25:50pm

re: #88 ryannon

'Zat you, L. Ron?

Just a devoted follower (not).

110 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:26:03pm

re: #97 ryannon

Could be worse. Imagine if you were a Yugo.

So what kind of mileage are you getting?

Not much from preview, it would seem. "IT was a Dodge Demon"

111 tradewind  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:27:44pm

re: #98 osprey34229
I'm sure he's just concerned about his carbon footprint.///

112 Slap  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:27:46pm

re: #104 tradewind

Forgive if this is old bizness, but it seems relevant to this point:

[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

Lotsa double-edged swords out there.

113 tradewind  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:29:30pm

re: #112 Slap
That is really old business.
Old and tired.

114 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:29:52pm

re: #94 allegro

The biggest thing that made me reject religion as a little kid was that it was all about fear. The religious people around me (some in my own family) always talked about how I was going to burn in hell and stuff for the smallest things. I thought that really sucked. I find it entirely sad to see so many people living in such states of fear, even if the Demon car is pretty hilarious.

My father went through a bad period of hospitalization, and apparently at one point, while hallucinating on massive meds, he came to the conclusion that he had died, and the ICU was Hell.

I felt so awful, that he actually had an experience of thinking he was damned. It made me sad.

115 DaddyG  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:30:00pm

re: #90 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Slab Hardchest!

116 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:30:23pm

OK, I think I need to stop looking at the #tcot feed on Twitter, but I can't pull my eyes away. It's like a never-ending train wreck of raging stupid: CZAR (OBAMA_CZAR) on Twitter

#Climategate is the biggest story of the millennium. It will trump WMD's & 9/11 in terms of cost, death toll & erosion of liberty.

117 The Sanity Inspector  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:30:47pm

re: #52 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I had a friend who believed that dinosaur bones and fossils were from the angels that were kicked out of heaven. Seriously.

I backed slooowly away.

Teach the controversy!

118 Locker  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:30:56pm

re: #45 tradewind

Canadian listening devices?
Oh... so that's what those tin cans linked with string are doing there!///

Hehe I'm guessing you didn't see this one:

[Link:reflector.com - Canadian coins bugged! (ahaha) ]

119 John Neverbend  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:30:58pm

re: #98 osprey34229

Speaking of faith based ideas old Algore
just canceled his speech in Copenhagen.
No reason given. What could this mean??

He can't speak Danish?

120 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:31:46pm

re: #119 John Neverbend

He can't speak Danish?

He only realized this with days to go? What, was he hoping to finish the Rosetta Stone course and write the speech the night before?

//

121 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:31:50pm

re: #90 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Slab Hardchest!

"Big McLarge Huge"

122 Gus  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:32:11pm

re: #98 osprey34229

Speaking of faith based ideas old Algore
just canceled his speech in Copenhagen.
No reason given. What could this mean??

Yes, and the AGW-Climategate-Denialist-Kooks™ are trying to spin to look like he canceled it because of the CRU emails.

123 Slap  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:32:19pm

re: #113 tradewind

...hence my upfront apology.

124 tradewind  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:32:30pm

re: #119 John Neverbend
He may not speak Danish, but you should see him pack 'em away.///

125 freetoken  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:32:33pm

re: #116 Charles

The rightloon-o-sphere is still hard-on for the "climategate" story.

Top 4 on Townhall's blogger list is running with "climategate" stories.

It's the great pot of gold at the scientists-are-untrustworthy rainbow for them.

126 badger1970  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:32:43pm

re: #115 DaddyG

I'm not seeing the video but assuming "Space Mutiny" done by M&TB?

Buff Drinklots?

127 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:32:52pm

re: #116 Charles

Death toll? So the dude says there will be no warming and the death toll from all of the non-warming will be huge?

Argh, here i am trying to make sense of this guy.

128 John Neverbend  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:32:54pm

re: #121 Varek Raith

"Big McLarge Huge"

Yep, that's me all over.

129 Kragar  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:33:44pm

re: #121 Varek Raith

"Big McLarge Huge"

Rob Johnson

130 John Neverbend  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:34:26pm

re: #124 tradewind

He may not speak Danish, but you should see him pack 'em away.///


I remember getting seriously drunk at the end of a tour of the Carlsberg factory when I was a boy, and I wasn't even touching Special Brew.

131 brookly red  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:34:32pm

re: #120 SanFranciscoZionist

He only realized this with days to go? What, was he hoping to finish the Rosetta Stone course and write the speech the night before?

//

Gore only bets on sure things... If there is any chance of controversy he won't get his hands dirty.

132 DaddyG  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:34:45pm

Al Climatechanger!

133 Gus  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:34:49pm

re: #116 Charles

OK, I think I need to stop looking at the #tcot feed on Twitter, but I can't pull my eyes away. It's like a never-ending train wreck of raging stupid: CZAR (OBAMA_CZAR) on Twitter

Unbelievable. The first one you mentioned was also listed under TCOT.

People need to know that TCOT stands for Top Conservatives on Twitter.

That's what passes for conservatives these days?

134 ED 209  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:35:03pm

re: #103 Aceofwhat?

Tsk, tsk. So then what do you follow? the Personal Creed of Ed209?

Don't we all?
Seriously though, I take full responsibilty for all my actions. Should I be following the creed of those who propose an inevident supreme power who they've claimed to winnow the mind of? I don't think so.

135 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:35:12pm

re: #129 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Rob Johnson

"Oh, wait"

136 tradewind  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:35:53pm

re: #123 Slap
That's okay.
The no- war- no -way crowd has a new face of evil to start working on, albeit cautiously. They'll overcome their hesitation in no time, and Bush will be finally excused from office.

137 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:36:12pm

re: #134 ED 209

Don't we all?
Seriously though, I take full responsibilty for all my actions. Should I be following the creed of those who propose an inevident supreme power who they've claimed to winnow the mind of? I don't think so.

No, you should do what you think is best. I was asking honestly. I personally enjoy CS Lewis' take on this topic - if you haven't read the Abolition of Man, i highly recommend it. If nothing else, the guy is a wordsmith par extraordinaire.

138 bosforus  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:36:13pm

re: #129 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Rob Johnson

oh, wait

Sidenote: downloaded The Dark Knight rifftrax last night and watched about half with the misses before I went to bed. Good stuff. I won't ruin any jokes for anyone.

139 DaddyG  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:36:14pm

re: #133 Gus 802

Unbelievable. The first one you mentioned was also listed under TCOT.

People need to know that TCOT stands for Top Conservatives on Twitter.

That's what passes for conservatives these days?

I'm not sure I'd aspire to be the top anyting on twitter. That's sort of like being the best Karaoke singer on Youtube.

140 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:36:29pm

And now the Washington Times is pushing a ridiculous story that even NASA is hiding the truth: Researcher: NASA hiding climate data - Washington Times

That "researcher" is Chris Horner of the CEI, one of the most rabid deniers in the business.

141 tradewind  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:36:50pm

re: #130 John Neverbend
Oh... I meant as in pastries.
:)

142 allegro  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:36:59pm

re: #131 brookly red

Gore only bets on sure things... If there is any chance of controversy he won't get his hands dirty.

Nonsense. He has been on the environmentalist bandwagon since WAY before it was fashionable and has been putting his money where his mouth is for most of his life.

143 osprey34229  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:37:56pm

#122
NO NO NO the emails had nothing to do
with his decision .

144 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:37:57pm

re: #129 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"Huh?"

145 brookly red  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:38:07pm

re: #142 allegro

Nonsense. He has been on the environmentalist bandwagon since WAY before it was fashionable and has been putting his money where his mouth is for most of his life.

so why the no-show then?

146 DaddyG  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:38:34pm

re: #140 Charles

And now the Washington Times is pushing a ridiculous story that even NASA is hiding the truth: Researcher: NASA hiding climate data - Washington Times

That "researcher" is Chris Horner of the CEI, one of the most rabid deniers in the business.


Oh noes! The scientizt ates the climut data!

147 tradewind  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:38:51pm

re: #142 allegro
That's pretty funny right there.///

148 allegro  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:39:03pm

re: #145 brookly red

How would I know? Maybe has a cold.

149 allegro  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:39:16pm

Maybe HE has a cold even.

150 DaddyG  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:39:20pm

re: #145 brookly red

so why the no-show then?


He's trying to cut back on his carbon emissions and didn't have the credits to start up the jet. /

151 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:39:57pm

re: #42 MandyManners

craters of the moon were caused by a cosmic battle between the forces of Satan and the armies of the archangel Michael

WTF? This sounds like some fantasy out of the Middle Ages.

Naw, sounds like the invention of cheese.

152 tradewind  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:40:35pm

re: #145 brookly red
Those embarrassing questions. Who needs 'em?

153 KernelPanic  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:41:05pm

Gore canceled his scheduled lecture. The reports I see online say nothing about canceling his trip or his presence at the summit. Please alter your gloating little theories to accommodate that little inconvenient fact.

154 Slap  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:41:22pm

re: #136 tradewind

I trust nothing I've said leads you to think me in the no-war-no-way crowd who continually bash bush? Since I don't fall into that crowd.

155 cliffster  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:41:51pm

re: #133 Gus 802

Unbelievable. The first one you mentioned was also listed under TCOT.

People need to know that TCOT stands for Top Conservatives on Twitter.

That's what passes for conservatives these days?

Nope, sure doesn't.

156 osprey34229  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:42:28pm

#142
As long as he uses his money I don't care what he does.
It's my money I worry about!!

157 Gus  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:43:12pm

re: #140 Charles

And now the Washington Times is pushing a ridiculous story that even NASA is hiding the truth: Researcher: NASA hiding climate data - Washington Times

That "researcher" is Chris Horner of the CEI, one of the most rabid deniers in the business.

I laughed when I saw that this morning. Horner's basically and industry attorney working for CEI. Here's one of his "researcher" quotes:

"[The planet Pluto, which is warming up despite moving away from the sun], is a reminder that no matter where you are climate happens... There will be inevitably and likely imminent claims [by environmentalists] that mankind is also causing Plutonian global warming."

158 MandyManners  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:43:35pm

re: #142 allegro

Nonsense. He has been on the environmentalist bandwagon since WAY before it was fashionable and has been putting his money where his mouth is for most of his life.

I guess that doesn't apply to his house.

[Link: www.snopes.com...]

159 ED 209  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:43:59pm

re: #137 Aceofwhat?

No, you should do what you think is best. I was asking honestly. I personally enjoy CS Lewis' take on this topic - if you haven't read the Abolition of Man, i highly recommend it. If nothing else, the guy is a wordsmith par extraordinaire.

Your chiding would appear to indicate disapproval, hence the defensive tone. Haven't read Abolition of Man (I don't think, I've read many, many things over the years and find I can't always recall details) I'll see if I can't come across it.

160 badger1970  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:44:14pm

re: #153 KernelPanic

Correct, though he says the Copenhagen goals are good enough. Not Tough Enough. I wonder how is indulgences are going?

161 tradewind  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:44:17pm

re: #154 Slap
Don't know... no, I'm not pre-imagining. Just saying that Bush bashing is way past its expiration date, and it's finally going to be recognized when we get mired in the muck of Afghanistan with the Taliban tapping their fingers , waiting for ' Our Time Is Up'.
Dumb as dirt, giving them a blueprint like that. They probably fist-bumped and thought 'hey... we've done this for thousands of years, what's eighteen months '?

162 DaddyG  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:44:17pm

re: #157 Gus 802 Ha! Jokes on him - the scientific community declared pluto a planetoid not a planet!

163 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:44:24pm

So we still have an export economy. We export crazy!

164 MandyManners  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:44:33pm

re: #151 Jeff In Ohio

Naw, sounds like the invention of cheese.

Swiss cheese.

165 allegro  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:45:57pm

re: #158 MandyManners

I'll post this yet again:

What's new is that Gore has gotten LEED gold certification from the Green Building Council - the 10,000-square-foot home is one of only 14 in the U.S. to achieve this rating, and the only home in Tennessee that's gotten any certification at all, according to the Associated Press. (There is also a platinum standard) Solar panels, solar roof fans, a rainwater collection system, and geothermal heating were all installed at the house. All incandescent lights - including those on the Christmas tree! - were replaced with either compact fluorescents or light-emitting diodes.

166 Gus  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:46:00pm

re: #162 DaddyG

Ha! Jokes on him - the scientific community declared pluto a planetoid not a planet!

I know. I found the decision rather disappointing. "Pluto's no longer a planet!" Grew up with Pluto being that "last planet" in the Solar System.

167 MandyManners  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:46:28pm
168 MandyManners  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:47:12pm

re: #165 allegro

I just hope he doesn't try to force everyone to do that.

169 KernelPanic  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:47:39pm

re: #158 MandyManners

I guess that doesn't apply to his house.

[Link: www.snopes.com...]

Follow the link in that snopes article to [Link: www.snopes.com...] and you will see that supposedly the Gore home was renovated in 2007 to the point where it qualified for the second highest LEED score for residential buildings.

Not that it matters but the second Bush left office he moved to a Dallas McMansion rather than his super green ranch.

170 tradewind  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:47:51pm

re: #165 allegro
That's called retroactively covering your ass cleaning up after yourself.
Mandy's post is spot on.

171 Slap  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:47:58pm

re: #161 tradewind

Appreciate the lack of preconception. My only reason for going to that story (which was a very recent discovery on my part, mea culpa) was your mention of Bush's faith and action in Africa on AIDS; I'm always a bit wary of the "faith" of leaders, and feel that yes, it's worth acknowledging the good acts that stem from faith, but also worth remembering that religion takes funny turns inside people sometimes.

172 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:48:07pm

re: #142 allegro

Nonsense. He has been on the environmentalist bandwagon since WAY before it was fashionable and has been putting his money where his mouth is for most of his life.

yep...his money and his mouth travel via private jet!!!

173 allegro  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:48:10pm

re: #168 MandyManners

Sheesh. The guy does something good, there's always a whining rejoinder.

174 MandyManners  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:48:39pm

re: #166 Gus 802

I know. I found the decision rather disappointing. "Pluto's no longer a planet!" Grew up with Pluto being that "last planet" in the Solar System.

That confused The Kid when he had to make a model of the Solar System last year.

175 badger1970  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:48:40pm

re: #166 Gus 802

My Very Excellent Mother Just Saved Us Nine Peaches (in grade school Pluto was inside of Neptune at the time so it would've been Peaches Nine).

176 tradewind  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:49:16pm

re: #169 KernelPanic
My niece and her husband live less than a mile from Bush's house in Dallas.
He's almost never there. They spend much more time in Crawford. When he is in Dallas, it is to work on his library at SMU.

177 MandyManners  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:49:41pm

re: #173 allegro

Sheesh. The guy does something good, there's always a whining rejoinder.

Did you see how long the cars for his entourage idled with the air on?

178 brookly red  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:50:08pm

re: #165 allegro

I'll post this yet again:

they used to call that special dispensation...

179 badger1970  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:50:19pm

re: #168 MandyManners

Hell why not? We gave him the money to do it (and all those suckers who forked up moola to see ThInTr and press then Goreacle's flesh).

180 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:50:32pm

re: #16 tradewind

For a minute there I thought he would jump into a Gundam and fly away.

181 MandyManners  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:50:33pm

re: #176 tradewind

My niece and her husband live less than a mile from Bush's house in Dallas.
He's almost never there. They spend much more time in Crawford. When he is in Dallas, it is to work on his library at SMU.

Evil, rich bastard has two homes?

182 MandyManners  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:50:55pm

Dinner out tonight. Later.

183 tradewind  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:51:11pm

re: #171 Slap
I agree that some times it does. I regret that the faith of Dubya was mocked with regularity and not recognized for what it was... he did many humanitarian and charitable actions with no press or publicity at all, even while president.

184 KernelPanic  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:52:30pm

re: #176 tradewind

My niece and her husband live less than a mile from Bush's house in Dallas.
He's almost never there. They spend much more time in Crawford. When he is in Dallas, it is to work on his library at SMU.

understood and thanks for that. I'm going to quiet down now.

I'm not even really a gore fan except for the fact that I saw him give a great and sincere speech a few weeks back in Portland, OR at the Supercomputing09 tradeshow.

During the holidays it was made abundantly clear to me that my inlaws disbelieve global warming mostly because they hate Al Gore. Since that realization I've found more and more people who discount climate issues out of an irrational hatred of a single politician. It's strange to me.

185 tradewind  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:53:33pm

re: #181 MandyManners
Yeah, an outrage. Worse than that, they get to freeload off Poppy's place in Maine.
:)

186 Slap  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:55:00pm

re: #183 tradewind

Which is as it should be -- acts of humanity and charity should be done quietly and humbly. I would have been HYPER-critical (as opposed to my normal "critical" when applied to politicians) had he done such things then drew attention to them.

187 tradewind  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:55:06pm

re: #184 KernelPanic
Really? That's bizarre. I think it may be a generational thing... I've noticed my folks tend to dislike things along the same lines... i.e. who is for or against them.

188 lostlakehiker  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:55:37pm

re: #140 Charles

And now the Washington Times is pushing a ridiculous story that even NASA is hiding the truth: Researcher: NASA hiding climate data - Washington Times

That "researcher" is Chris Horner of the CEI, one of the most rabid deniers in the business.

Here's the skinny on Horner, from the article, corrected as needed:

Mr. Horner, a noted global warming skeptic and author of The Politically Scientifically Incorrect Guide to Global Warming and Environmentalism, wants a look at to cherry pick the data and the discussions that went into those changes. He said he's given the agency until the end of the year to comply or else he'll sue to compel the information's release.

The article continues

NASA's GISS was forced to update its data in 2007 after questions were raised by Steve McIntyre, who runs ClimateAudit.com.

GISS had initially listed the warmest years as 1998, 1934, 2006, 1921 and 1931. After Mr. McIntyre's questions GISS rejiggered the list and 1934 was warmest, followed by 1998, 1921, 2006 and then 1931. But since then, the list has been rewritten again so it now runs 1998, 2006, 1934, 1921, 1999.

The institute blamed a "minor data processing error" for the changes but says it doesn't make much difference since the top three years remain in a "statistical tie" either way.

Indeed it doesn't make much difference. The much balleyhooed replacement of 1998 with 1934, if that is correct, is beside the point. Take the list in the order the denialists would like best: 1921, 1933, 1934, 1998, 2006. That's still front-loaded toward recent times. And where are the 1800s?

What's more, the denialists have no answer to photos of Glacier National Park from the early 1900s and the comparison to current photos, no answer to the current arctic sea ice levels and how thin the ice is compared to Peary's days, and no answer indeed to most of the mass of plain fact that is there for anyone with eyes to see. Species ranges are shifting up slope and north. Migration patterns are shifting to later in fall, earlier in spring. The list is endless. And the trumpets blare forth the latest little glitch.

Even if Tiger Woods misses a hole, or hits a fire hydrant, grass is still green.

189 tradewind  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:57:22pm

re: #186 Slap
You mean like the guy we have now. I know, it's irritating.
POTUS didn't really need to remind me that ' I went to Dover, I saw the families '... he had plenty of cameras there along with him.

190 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:57:49pm

re: #188 lostlakehiker

Still, i say put all the data out there. You're always better off rebutting someone else's faulty analysis than explaning why you hid it. Confidence = transparency.

191 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:58:51pm

bbl

192 Gus  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:58:52pm

re: #184 KernelPanic

I wasn't a Gore "fan" even when I voted Clinton in his first election bid. I blame Tipper and Frank Zappa.

193 freetoken  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:00:31pm

re: #184 KernelPanic


During the holidays it was made abundantly clear to me that my inlaws disbelieve global warming mostly because they hate Al Gore. Since that realization I've found more and more people who discount climate issues out of an irrational hatred of a single politician. It's strange to me.

Yup. It's Al Gore hate, and then (given the human brain's ability to rationalize emotions in the strangest of ways,) the transfer of that emotion to "global warming".

194 brookly red  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:02:05pm

re: #184 KernelPanic

understood and thanks for that. I'm going to quiet down now.

I'm not even really a gore fan except for the fact that I saw him give a great and sincere speech a few weeks back in Portland, OR at the Supercomputing09 tradeshow.

During the holidays it was made abundantly clear to me that my inlaws disbelieve global warming mostly because they hate Al Gore. Since that realization I've found more and more people who discount climate issues out of an irrational hatred of a single politician. It's strange to me.

You bring up a good point, I for one don't discount climate change. I just don't trust the people who profit from it to do anything BUT profit from it.

195 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:02:26pm

re: #188 lostlakehiker
I was talking to a friend who reps wineries.
Want well documented weather and climate reports? Long term? By folks who have no interest in screwing with the numbers? On numerous continents? Talk to people who run vineyards and make wine. France, Italy, Germany for centuries. For more recent but accurate numbers California in Napa Valley.
Guess what? Somebody already did this...

Unless the denialists drink the evidence.

196 brownbagj  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:04:03pm

When I first read this I thought it was "American Creationists Collaborate with an Islamic Turkey."

I think it may be time to quit drinking NyQuil.

197 tradewind  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:04:49pm

Maybe this had something to do with Al's decision not to speak...
[Link: www.cphpost.dk...]

198 Gus  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:05:44pm

re: #193 freetoken

Yup. It's Al Gore hate, and then (given the human brain's ability to rationalize emotions in the strangest of ways,) the transfer of that emotion to "global warming".

AGDS!

The way I see it, he's just one person and one proponent. One can support AGW theories without idolizing Al Gore. At the same time, supporting AGW theories isn't concurrent with the idolization of Al Gore.

199 albusteve  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:05:57pm

The report is the work of Democracy Corps, the influential polling organization run by Democraic strategists James Carville and Stanley Greenberg. The two men found voters are nearly beside themselves about unemployment, angry about the deficit, pessimistic about the future, and in a mood to punish Democrats if things don't get better soon. "This is about the economy, and it's not pretty," they write

[Link: www.washingtonexaminer.com...]

so what's the big deal?...the economy has turned around, right?

200 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:06:13pm

Washington Times to lay off 40% of it's workforce, restructure.
[Link: www.washingtontimes.com...]

201 tradewind  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:06:37pm

re: #195 Rightwingconspirator
Yep. You just can't argue with that scientific data gathering back in the fourteenth century. It's irrefutable.///

202 Gus  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:08:05pm

re: #201 tradewind

Yep. You just can't argue with that scientific data gathering back in the fourteenth century. It's irrefutable.///

You mean like fossil records?

203 allegro  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:08:24pm

re: #200 Floral Giraffe

Washington Times to lay off 40% of it's workforce, restructure.

They can always go sell roses at the airport.

204 cliffster  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:09:03pm

re: #195 Rightwingconspirator

I was talking to a friend who reps wineries.
Want well documented weather and climate reports? Long term? By folks who have no interest in screwing with the numbers? On numerous continents? Talk to people who run vineyards and make wine. France, Italy, Germany for centuries. For more recent but accurate numbers California in Napa Valley.
Guess what? Somebody already did this...

Unless the denialists drink the evidence.

That's brilliant.

205 Sharmuta  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:09:53pm
206 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:10:56pm

re: #201 tradewind

Try this on for size. The regions are moving where certain grapes will grow.
Everyone note This is Discovery Channel, not Institute. Yikes.

re: #204 cliffster

Thank You.

207 torrentprime  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:10:58pm

re: #202 Gus 802

You mean like fossil records?

Wow! They ran carbon 14 analyses in the 14th century? Who knew?

208 RogueOne  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:13:07pm

re: #13 The Sanity Inspector

Sorry to go OT so soon, but this is interesting. The Tiger Woods crash, as re-enacted by SIMS:

[Video]

Theirs a clip from one of the late nite talk shows that has it as part of the new EA TigerWoods 2010 except its a mashup of GTA that shows tiger getting dragged out of a car and beaten by a woman with a golf club. I saw it on Morning Joe yesterday and I missed what show it was on and I can't find it anywhere.

209 Digital Display  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:14:06pm

Good Afternoon Lizards!
Good News! I got tickets to the Colts game Sunday...Woot!

210 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:14:35pm

re: #207 torrentprime

Huh?

211 albusteve  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:14:53pm

these Climate Change histrionics are far less important to me than the health of our dismal economy and even whether the Cowboys win their division...there are just more important thinks to deal with right now

212 Gus  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:15:05pm

re: #207 torrentprime

Wow! They ran carbon 14 analyses in the 14th century? Who knew?

That wasn't my point. I was being sarcastic because his sarcasm read like something from the Discovery Institute. Dendrochronology is used for assessing climate back in the 14th century amongst other techniques.

213 albusteve  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:15:42pm

re: #209 HoosierHoops

Good Afternoon Lizards!
Good News! I got tickets to the Colts game Sunday...Woot!

cool...NFL games are a blast

214 allegro  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:16:28pm

re: #211 albusteve

t

hese Climate Change histrionics are far less important to me than the health of our dismal economy and even whether the Cowboys win their division...there are just more important thinks to deal with right now

If there was ever a defining statement...

215 brookly red  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:18:51pm

re: #211 albusteve

these Climate Change histrionics are far less important to me than the health of our dismal economy and even whether the Cowboys win their division...there are just more important thinks to deal with right now

the economy & the Cowboys both seem to be over taxed & under productive...

216 torrentprime  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:18:51pm

re: #210 Rightwingconspirator

I was riffing off the comment:
re: #201 tradewind
Yep. You just can't argue with that scientific data gathering back in the fourteenth century. It's irrefutable.///
You mean like fossil records?

I seriously doubt that Gus was drawing an equivalence between reading old temperature records and using modern techniques on old fossils (at least I hope not), but it's what I heard when I saw the comment. Didn't see a sarcasm mark, and I thought the idea was funny.

217 Digital Display  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:18:55pm

re: #213 albusteve

cool...NFL games are a blast

I'm planning on getting on TV...I'm wearing my long blue wig and painting my face blue..But I decided for shock value I'm doing my lips like the joker in white with a touch of red...Wicked bad look I think...The producer won't be able to resist..(I hope)
/At least I'm not crashing the game..

218 albusteve  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:19:50pm

one surefire way to put less CO2 in the air is to shut down our formerly robust economy eh?...bet nobody ever thought of that before

219 albusteve  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:20:42pm

re: #215 brookly red

the economy & the Cowboys both seem to be over taxed & under productive...

as for the Cowboys...read the stats, apparently you'd be surprised

220 Stanghazi  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:21:09pm

re: #217 HoosierHoops

I'm planning on getting on TV...I'm wearing my long blue wig and painting my face blue..But I decided for shock value I'm doing my lips like the joker in white with a touch of red...Wicked bad look I think...The producer won't be able to resist..(I hope)
/At least I'm not crashing the game..

I am definitely going to be watching for you.

221 Gus  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:22:04pm

re: #216 torrentprime

I was riffing off the comment:
re: #201 tradewind
Yep. You just can't argue with that scientific data gathering back in the fourteenth century. It's irrefutable.///
You mean like fossil records?

I seriously doubt that Gus was drawing an equivalence between reading old temperature records and using modern techniques on old fossils (at least I hope not), but it's what I heard when I saw the comment. Didn't see a sarcasm mark, and I thought the idea was funny.

If I had to rewrite it it would go like this:

Right, we can't trust the science that estimates the climate of the 14th century just like we can't trust the fossil record that in part describes the evolution of the species.

222 brookly red  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:23:15pm

re: #219 albusteve

as for the Cowboys...read the stats, apparently you'd be surprised

/ is it true that Gore is buying the Cowboys? :)

223 soxfan4life  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:24:48pm

re: #219 albusteve

as for the Cowboys...read the stats, apparently you'd be surprised

Unfortunately for the Cowboys, New Orleans and Minnesota are in the NFC.

224 albusteve  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:25:36pm

re: #222 brookly red

/ is it true that Gore is buying the Cowboys? :)

he can probably afford them now...but no, the Cowboys will not be sold in our lifetime, or probably the next

225 Digital Display  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:25:47pm

Did anybody read about this today? Climate change is threatening to sink a town in Alaska? Kind of a bummer when your town sinks into the ocean from massive melting..
[Link: www.cnn.com...]

226 Ben G. Hazi  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:26:27pm

re: #116 Charles

OK, I think I need to stop looking at the #tcot feed on Twitter, but I can't pull my eyes away. It's like a never-ending train wreck of raging stupid: CZAR (OBAMA_CZAR) on Twitter

Teh st00pid...it burnz...

227 darthstar  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:26:43pm

re: #223 soxfan4life

Unfortunately for the Cowboys, New Orleans and Minnesota are in the NFC.

Saints & Vikings are both doing great...Looking forward to seeing the Vikings beat the Saints in the playoffs...

228 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:27:47pm

re: #225 HoosierHoops

Read that earlier. The main family of the story lost their son due to the ice being thinner than expected while he and a friend was trying to cross it while duck hunting.

229 allegro  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:27:49pm

re: #225 HoosierHoops

Shhh, don't interrupt the football progress.

230 soxfan4life  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:28:25pm

re: #227 darthstar

Saints & Vikings are both doing great...Looking forward to seeing the Vikings beat the Saints in the playoffs...

Good Luck with that. Should be a great game though.

231 albusteve  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:30:13pm

re: #223 soxfan4life

Unfortunately for the Cowboys, New Orleans and Minnesota are in the NFC.

Brees tossed a perfect game the other night 158.3...wowch!...Big Ben and Manning have each done it three times...NO is the real deal, but anything can happen

232 Sharmuta  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:31:26pm

re: #218 albusteve

one surefire way to put less CO2 in the air is to shut down our formerly robust economy eh?...bet nobody ever thought of that before

Or we could radically alter our economy for the better with innovations- who knows? It's all in how you look at it. Necessity is the Mother of Invention.

233 torrentprime  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:35:06pm

re: #232 Sharmuta

Or we could radically alter our economy for the better with innovations- who knows? It's all in how you look at it. Necessity is the Mother of Invention.

No, no. Everyone knows the only reason people are making a big deal about this climate change thing is because it's part of the Left's global Marxist Fascist Communist plot to shut down / take over (same thing) the global economy. Doesn't anyone read anymore?

234 bosforus  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:35:07pm

OT
World Cup draw countdown: 18:00 hrs!
[Link: www.capetownmagazine.com...]

Who will the US be grouped with?!
Who will be in the "group of death"?!
We'll soon know!

235 allegro  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:36:46pm

re: #233 torrentprime

No, no. Everyone knows the only reason people are making a big deal about this climate change thing is because it's part of the Left's global Marxist Fascist Communist plot to shut down / take over (same thing) the global economy.

... and AL GORE!

236 soxfan4life  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:37:57pm

re: #233 torrentprime

No, no. Everyone knows the only reason people are making a big deal about this climate change thing is because it's part of the Left's global Marxist Fascist Communist plot to shut down / take over (same thing) the global economy. Doesn't anyone read anymore?

With the UN squarely on board why wouldn't people believe that. Until nuclear energy is a large part of the solution it is too little, and too much of a governmental money grab.

237 cliffster  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:42:32pm

re: #209 HoosierHoops

Good Afternoon Lizards!
Good News! I got tickets to the Colts game Sunday...Woot!

Let me know when you'll be swinging by to pick me up...

238 RogueOne  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:43:50pm

re: #225 HoosierHoops

Did anybody read about this today? Climate change is threatening to sink a town in Alaska? Kind of a bummer when your town sinks into the ocean from massive melting..
[Link: www.cnn.com...]

FTA:

Forced adaptation

Because of its remote location and live-off-the-land lifestyle, it could appear that Shishmaref has remained the same for centuries, as time passed it by.

That's not the case. The village itself is an adaptation to outside influence.

Shishmaref's people were nomadic, following seals and caribou, until the U.S. Bureau of Indian Affairs built a school on the island in the early 1900s and forced Inupiat children to attend. Some residents still resent that school; they say it punished those who spoke Inupiaq and stifled other aspects of the Native culture.

Over the decades, though, the community adjusted to its new stationary existence. And today, people are attached to this place.

So...if we had not forced them to change their lifestyle then their town wouldn't even exist? Climate change didn't destroy their lives, we did.

239 torrentprime  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:44:17pm

re: #236 soxfan4life

Until nuclear energy is a large part of the solution it is too little, and too much of a governmental money grab.

At least the above is "here's why the proposed solutions aren't as good as mine." That's discussion we all can live with (I completely agree with the nuclear part, BTW). It's the "I don't believe in global warming because algoreobamaacornsocialism wants to destroy America" stuff that makes my teeth itch. (The UN quote is a little partisan too, but hating the UN has been a conservative sport for years, so... meh. Could be worse)

240 Ben G. Hazi  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:44:42pm

re: #196 brownbagj

When I first read this I thought it was "American Creationists Collaborate with an Islamic Turkey."

I think it may be time to quit drinking NyQuil.

Harun Yahya is an Islamic turkey, IMNSHO...

241 albusteve  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:44:55pm

re: #232 Sharmuta

Or we could radically alter our economy for the better with innovations- who knows? It's all in how you look at it. Necessity is the Mother of Invention.

that's not gonna, the feds won't even allow hemp production...I'll wager you right now that people will learn to accept 7% unemployment as reasonable...the feds have no money and no ability to create jobs in the private sector...they are using private money as their own bottomless piggybank through taxation...organized crime imo

242 RogueOne  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:45:24pm

re: #225 HoosierHoops

BTW, Hi hoosier

243 torrentprime  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:50:28pm

re: #241 albusteve

that's not gonna, the feds won't even allow hemp production...I'll wager you right now that people will learn to accept 7% unemployment as reasonable...the feds have no money and no ability to create jobs in the private sector...they are using private money as their own bottomless piggybank through taxation...organized crime imo

Government research money doesn't affect the direction of and ease the path for private scientific development? I thought the complaint about climate change was that government money was too involved? Now the above says there isn't money (except the government gives millions in research grants every year), and the feds will turn down anything useful, because they 1) won't pay for it (except they do), 2) don't want (except Obama's advisors are on record saying that's precisely what they do want), and 3) will help stop the innovation they're paying for? Really?

244 albusteve  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:51:19pm

re: #239 torrentprime

At least the above is "here's why the proposed solutions aren't as good as mine." That's discussion we all can live with (I completely agree with the nuclear part, BTW). It's the "I don't believe in global warming because algoreobamaacornsocialism wants to destroy America" stuff that makes my teeth itch. (The UN quote is a little partisan too, but hating the UN has been a conservative sport for years, so... meh. Could be worse)

the UN deserves all the scorn they get from any concerned citizen...a totally corrupt institution, more concerned about condemning Israel that find water for subSaharan Africans...despicable people

245 albusteve  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:52:34pm

re: #243 torrentprime

Government research money doesn't affect the direction of and ease the path for private scientific development? I thought the complaint about climate change was that government money was too involved? Now the above says there isn't money (except the government gives millions in research grants every year), and the feds will turn down anything useful, because they 1) won't pay for it (except they do), 2) don't want (except Obama's advisors are on record saying that's precisely what they do want), and 3) will help stop the innovation they're paying for? Really?

the government only has money it taxes from the citizens...pretty simple

246 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:52:36pm

Seems like just yesterday...it was a spectacular observation of the parallel between Creationism and ultrareligious Islam, concerning the debate over teaching of religion in the science classrooms of public schools.
It was and remains a scathing indictment of religious extremism regardless of the religion involved.
Not to defend the Creationists, but in fairness there was a fundamental difference which was somewhat obscured at the time, namely the fact that the Islamists were prepared to impose their anti-scientific will by application of force and coercion, while the Discos were at least working within the democratic process.

247 torrentprime  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:54:47pm

re: #245 albusteve

the government only has money it taxes from the citizens...pretty simple

Correct.

Back to global climate change...

248 Ben G. Hazi  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:54:53pm

re: #209 HoosierHoops

Good Afternoon Lizards!
Good News! I got tickets to the Colts game Sunday...Woot!

Good for you, Hoops...I hope you enjoy the game.

Especially the part where the Titans beat the Colts (please, please, please)...your tears will be so sweet and delicious!

/Nashvillian and Titans fan ;-P

249 allegro  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:56:51pm

As long as the Titans are owned by Bud Adams, a pox. (I'm a Houstonian - Bud Adams ripped my heart out and will never be forgiven.)

250 albusteve  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:58:34pm

re: #248 talon_262

Good for you, Hoops...I hope you enjoy the game.

Especially the part where the Titans beat the Colts (please, please, please)...your tears will be so sweet and delicious!

/Nashvillian and Titans fan ;-P

the way to beat the Colts is to beat Manning...he is extremely fast reading the D and picking his target, and his accuracy is historic...pressure him, force turnovers and run the ball against them...it can be done

251 RogueOne  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 3:59:41pm

re: #249 allegro

As long as the Titans are owned by Bud Adams, a pox. (I'm a Houstonian - Bud Adams ripped my heart out and will never be forgiven.)

He gets extra credit points for this though:

252 albusteve  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 4:01:10pm

re: #249 allegro

As long as the Titans are owned by Bud Adams, a pox. (I'm a Houstonian - Bud Adams ripped my heart out and will never be forgiven.)

Jerry Jone spent over 800m on his stadium...jus sayin

253 Digital Display  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 4:01:13pm

re: #250 albusteve

the way to beat the Colts is to beat Manning...he is extremely fast reading the D and picking his target, and his accuracy is historic...pressure him, force turnovers and run the ball against them...it can be done

Sure it can be done..But nobody this year has done it...We won our division..We will start resting player soon...Nobody cares about 16-0 here...

254 allegro  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 4:01:54pm

re: #251 RogueOne

He flipped the bird to the renowned Oiler supporters in Houston for years, to the tune of many millions of dollars and just... being a total asshole. No points given.

255 RogueOne  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 4:02:31pm

re: #253 HoosierHoops

Sure it can be done..But nobody this year has done it...We won our division..We will start resting player soon...Nobody cares about 16-0 here...

I wished they did care. I'd like to see them push all the way till the end of the season.

256 RogueOne  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 4:04:12pm

re: #254 allegro

He flipped the bird to the renowned Oiler supporters in Houston for years, to the tune of many millions of dollars and just... being a total asshole. No points given.

It could have been worse. We inherited Bob Irsay.

257 Digital Display  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 4:04:16pm

re: #255 RogueOne

I wished they did care. I'd like to see them push all the way till the end of the season.

Pollian already said they wouldn't.. They want to be fresh for the play-offs..
That's the only thing that matters...

258 RogueOne  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 4:04:49pm

COLTS THREAD TAKEOVER!//

259 albusteve  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 4:05:05pm

re: #255 RogueOne

I wished they did care. I'd like to see them push all the way till the end of the season.

always a question...stay healthy or take the risk of losing momentum?

260 Digital Display  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 4:06:41pm

re: #259 albusteve

always a question...stay healthy or take the risk of losing momentum?

Wade is 0-4 in the play-offs with the Cowboys...You guys don't even get to ask the question..
*wink*

261 Ben G. Hazi  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 4:07:05pm

re: #249 allegro

As long as the Titans are owned by Bud Adams, a pox. (I'm a Houstonian - Bud Adams ripped my heart out and will never be forgiven.)

What are you complaining about, you got Bob McNair and the Texans to replace Bud Adams and the Oilers/Titans.

Oh, wait...

///

262 allegro  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 4:07:29pm

re: #261 talon_262

SMACK!

263 RogueOne  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 4:11:56pm

re: #257 HoosierHoops

I think the Steelers V. Cards, Giants V. Pats, and even the 2007 Colts should be a huge sign. Plus, when they rest they lose.

264 Digital Display  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 4:15:44pm

re: #263 RogueOne

I think the Steelers V. Cards, Giants V. Pats, and even the 2007 Colts should be a huge sign. Plus, when they rest they lose.

Point taken..Guess how banged up the Colts will be in week 15 and 16..

265 RogueOne  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 4:17:59pm

re: #264 HoosierHoops

Point taken..Guess how banged up the Colts will be in week 15 and 16..

Yep. Although, it looks like they're starting to get some people back. Has anyone given a guess as to when gonzo will be available yet?

266 Yashmak  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 4:18:54pm
Why I’m so interested in seeing creationism succeed in Turkey is that evolution is an evil concept that has done such damage to society

I'm still waiting for a cogent explanation of how EXACTLY the theory of evolution has damaged society, moreover, how it even COULD.

Emphasis on cogent.

267 Yashmak  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 4:19:27pm

Oh, my bad. I seem to have made the mistake of addressing the actual topic ;)

268 Neutral President  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 4:19:32pm

re: #20 Sharmuta

Morris wrote in The Remarkable Birth of Planet Earth (1972) that the craters of the moon were caused by a cosmic battle between the forces of Satan and the armies of the archangel Michael.

Is it possible for me to sue that guy. This is a “smear,” “slander,” and a “fantasy”. I am not in any way, shape, or form, responsible for impact craters on the moon.

/Now if I ever get around to building that railgun project...

269 Digital Display  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 4:20:06pm

re: #265 RogueOne

Yep. Although, it looks like they're starting to get some people back. Has anyone given a guess as to when gonzo will be available yet?

Haven't heard..But he will probably be out of football shape..and it's getting late...I heard a rumor of us releasing Sanders next year

270 darthstar  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 4:21:27pm

re: #266 Yashmak

I'm still waiting for a cogent explanation of how EXACTLY the theory of evolution has damaged society, moreover, how it even COULD.

Emphasis on cogent.

Genesis 1:1 "Call me Ishmael." ...wait...I think I have the wrong book in front of me...hang on.

/snark

271 RogueOne  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 4:22:16pm

re: #269 HoosierHoops

Haven't heard..But he will probably be out of football shape..and it's getting late...I heard a rumor of us releasing Sanders next year

That's an awful lot of money for a guy who doesn't play much. Watch him land somewhere else and go 3 seasons before another injury too.

272 Digital Display  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 4:23:34pm

re: #271 RogueOne

That's an awful lot of money for a guy who doesn't play much. Watch him land somewhere else and go 3 seasons before another injury too.

That's exactly what we were saying today...

273 RogueOne  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 4:28:10pm

cya hoosier.

274 Digital Display  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 4:28:42pm

re: #273 RogueOne

cya hoosier.

Be well

275 SixDegrees  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 4:30:52pm

re: #266 Yashmak

I'm still waiting for a cogent explanation of how EXACTLY the theory of evolution has damaged society, moreover, how it even COULD.

Emphasis on cogent.

Because evolution is de debbil's work.

Oh, wait...you said 'cogent'...

276 SixDegrees  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 4:37:08pm

So, they held Congressional hearings today on the idiots who crashed the White House dinner party last week. The Secret Service showed up, admitted that they screwed up royally and prepared to take their caning. The idiots didn't show up, despite an invitation. Also absent was anyone from the White House staff, who were responsible for the guest list and were the authority the Secret Service was supposed to have checked with (but didn't) if any questions arose about guests being on the "invited" list or not.

So - why didn't the White House staff show up? They declined because of a direct order from the Oval Office.

It seems to me that if the idiots wind up getting charged, the information about whether or not they were on the invitation list is absolutely going to be made public; if I were their lawyer, the first thing I'd ask for would be a copy of the guest list.

So why not just show up and fork over the list? If they're not on it, bring charges. If they are, they're innocent. Case closed, time to move on.

I can't think of any reason for the White House to order it's staff not to attend. Unless they don't want the guest list made public for some reason.

Or am I missing something and giving in to paranoia here? Did anyone hear an explanation for the order to stay away? It just doesn't make any sense to me.

277 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 4:39:03pm

re: #276 SixDegrees

Generally, the Secret Service prefers to take all responsibility from things like this onto itself. They dislike anyone else taking any blame.

278 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 4:40:20pm

re: #91 SanFranciscoZionist

(snip)

Please return to discussion of Turks.

OK

The Errant Apprentice
© Bill Watkins
Words by Bill Watkins, music by Andy M. Stewart & Gerry O'Beirne
Listen to a bit of the song, courtesy of Andy M. Stewart's web site

When I was a young apprentice and less than compos mentis
I took leave of all my senses, with a maid I fell in love
Her ringlets so entwined me, Aphrodite's smile did blind me
Cupid's arrow struck behind me, and her father owned a pub
It was there I met my nemesis in her father's licensed premises
Like the Seraphim of Genesis, sat Mary Anne Maguire
Arrayed in fine apparel, astride a porter barrel
She looked the kind of girl that would fill you with desire

All the turtle doves were cooing as I took to my wooing
Her loveliness pursuing in the springtime of that year
But she thought I should be older
And more gallant and much bolder
In the uniform of a soldier, 'tis then she'd hold me dear
In extremis and euphoria, I joined with Queen Victoria
For a spell of death or gloria, a-fighting with the Boers
To the wind I threw all caution, I'll return with fame and fortune
And together make a portion of matrimony's chores

On the gravestone of her mother, she swore she loved no other
But I was to soon discover that she played me for a berk
For lady-luck had beached me and intelligence had reached me
Whilst I'd been overseas she had married to a Turk
Well me, I then deserted for to find the girl who'd flirted
Back to Ireland I reverted for my jealousy was roused
In Maguire's pub in Derry, I found him making merry
With his arms around my Mary as together they caroused

So I took my time and waited until his thirst was sated
And home he navigated through the streets of Derry town
At his lodgin's he stood knocking and whilst they were unlocking
I put a stone into a stocking on his head I brought it down
'Twas then the night's serenity was rent with loud obscenity
And Ottoman profanity that I couldn't understand
With an oath he made to grab me, with full intent to stab me
But as he tried to kebab me, I was screaming up the strand

All around the town's perimeter he chased me with his scimitar
A powerful passion limiter to an errant in his pride
Through the waterside he chased me, to the Bridge of Foyle he raced me
And at Derry Quay he faced me, so I jumped into the tide
Sure, bravery's no virtue when some heathen's trying to hurt you
And all noble thoughts desert you when you see his curly knife
For there's many things worth trying for and occasionally worth lying for
But there's bugger-all worth dying for, so I'll stick to the single life.

279 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 4:48:53pm

re: #184 KernelPanic

understood and thanks for that. I'm going to quiet down now.

I'm not even really a gore fan except for the fact that I saw him give a great and sincere speech a few weeks back in Portland, OR at the Supercomputing09 tradeshow.

During the holidays it was made abundantly clear to me that my inlaws disbelieve global warming mostly because they hate Al Gore. Since that realization I've found more and more people who discount climate issues out of an irrational hatred of a single politician. It's strange to me.

haha, I hung out, and got drunk with, with multiple people who were in town for Supercomputing 09. Weird brainy math guys rock. :D

Disbelieving AGW because of Al Gore is like hating all piano players because Jerry Lee Lewis plays piano.

280 b_snark  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 6:05:01pm

re: #28 Charles

Someone just sent me this tweet:

Here's his Twitter page: [Link: twitter.com...]

Reading through his/her other tweets ("And for that matter, Islam should be banned too"), I thought it might be a troll faking right wing craziness. I mean, come on. People can't really be that astoundingly hateful and dense, can they?

Yep, they sure can. Here's its website: [Link: bit.ly...]

If that kind of mental illness wasn't so frightening, that site would be hilarious.

281 b_snark  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 6:09:58pm

re: #45 tradewind

Canadian listening devices?
Oh... so that's what those tin cans linked with string are doing there!///

For that I will have to sic the dogs on you. You do have snow down there don't you? I'd hate to have to carry the sled when I get there.

282 b_snark  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 6:12:08pm

re: #65 John Neverbend

Hah! Morris is sooo wrong. Everybody knows the craters were caused by a stray hydrogen bomb dropped by Xenu in his attempts to cure the earth of over-population.

Were you supposed to let that out?

283 andres  Fri, Dec 4, 2009 9:44:48am

I think there will be some exploding heads today among the creationist and anti-science circles.

Feeding birds 'changes evolution'


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