World Meteorological Organization and NOAA: 2000-2009 is the Hottest Decade on Record

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A newly released analysis by the World Meteorological Organization shows that this decade is very likely the warmest in the modern record, and 2009 is on track to be the fifth warmest year ever recorded.

The decade of the 2000s is very likely the warmest decade in the modern record, dating back 150 years, according to a provisional summary of climate conditions near the end of 2009, the organization said.

The period from 2000 through 2009 has been “warmer than the 1990s, which were warmer than the 1980s and so on,” said Michel Jarraud, the secretary general of the international weather agency, speaking at a news conference at the climate talks in Copenhagen.

The international assessment largely meshes with an interim analysis by the National Climatic Data Center and NASA in the United States, both of which independently estimate global and regional temperature and other weather trends.

Mr. Jarraud also said that 2009, with some uncertainty because several weeks remain, appears to be the fifth warmest year on record.

Climate Progress has more on this announcement, which is based on multiple sources of data: World Meteorological Organization and NOAA both report: 2000-2009 is the hottest decade on record.

Here’s the announcement at the WMO site: 2000–2009, THE WARMEST DECADE.

The report includes this disturbing graph, produced from three Global datasets: NOAA (NCDC Dataset) , NASA (GISS dataset) and combined Hadley Center and Climate Research Unit of the University of East Anglia (UK) (HadCRUT3 dataset).

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304 comments
1 Locker  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 12:59:22pm

None of it's true because the hacked and stolen emails told me so!

2 cliffster  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:03:33pm

That looks just like the Dow Jones from 2001 - 2007. Temperatures will go down soon, and fast.

3 Girth  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:04:23pm

Surely man doesn't have enough power to impact climate in this manner.

But it's Obama's fault anyways.

Al Gore too.

4 Kragar  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:04:28pm

Pfff, who looks at years worth of data when we can just pick out a few bits here and there and come to any conclusion we like?

5 Locker  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:05:37pm

re: #4 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Pfff, who looks at years worth of data when we can just pick out a few bits here and there and come to any conclusion we like?

What other method should be used? Science, math and especially graphs are the DEBOL!

6 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:07:12pm

The Tragedy of the Himalayas

Reports from Leh indicate that precipitation has dropped during the past quarter-century as temperatures have risen, a possible consequence of climate change. But the real threat is to the heart of the greater Himalayas and the vast Tibetan Plateau, where more than 40,000 sq. mi. of glaciers hold water in the largest collection of land ice outside the polar regions. "These glaciers are central to the region," says Hasnain, looking over Khardung La. "If we don't have snow and ice here, people will die."

Scientists call it the third pole — but when it comes to clear and present threats from climate change, it may rank first. The high-altitude glaciers of the Himalayas and the Tibetan Plateau — which cover parts of India, Pakistan, Nepal, Bhutan and China — are the water tower of Asia. When the ice thaws and the snow melts every spring, the glaciers birth the great rivers of the region, the mightiest river system in the world: the Ganges, the Indus, the Brahmaputra, the Mekong, the Yellow, the Yangtze. Together, these rivers give material and spiritual sustenance to 3 billion people, nearly half of the world's population — and all are nursed by Himalayan ice. Monsoons come and go, filling the rivers at times and then leaving them lethargic, but the ice melt has always been regular and dependable in a region where water — or the lack of it — defines civilization. "This isn't like the polar ice caps," says Shubash Lohani, an officer with the Nepal program of the World Wildlife Fund (WWF). "You have a huge population downstream from the Himalayas who are dependent on it."

7 bosforus  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:07:45pm

Well, yeah, if you're going to use Celsius that's what the graph's gonna look like. Some elitist metric user probably made this graph.
/

8 Girth  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:08:32pm

re: #5 Locker

What other method should be used? Science, math and especially graphs are the DEBOL!

For God's sakes man not GRAPHS!

The hockey-stick graph...

H-E-double-HOCKEY STICKS!!!

Don't you see? Ask questions America!

/Beck-tears

9 ignoranceisfatal  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:09:30pm

re: #8 Girth

For God's sakes man not GRAPHS!

As long as nobody's using pie charts, I'm happy.

10 The Curmudgeon  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:09:47pm

I've seen that graph before. It's Obama's data on "jobs created or saved" by the stimulus bill.

11 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:10:44pm

Is the world hot, or is it just me?

12 Cato the Elder  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:11:35pm

Bullshit. The Naughties have been a big yawn.

The Sixties, now there was a hot decade.

13 Bagua  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:11:47pm

re: #6 Sharmuta

I believe that bit of propaganda from the WWF was shown to be false, they transposed the year 2350 into 2050. There is no valid research that shows the Himalayan glacies disappearing by 2050.

It would indeed be very severe if and when it happens, but 340 years is a long time to prepare.

14 Ojoe  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:13:21pm

One of the threads, a few back, contained the info that a lot of the warming was at night.

Fascinating.

/Spock

15 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:13:32pm

re: #12 Cato the Elder
Hey! Someone else who calls this the Naughties! Yay!

Gosh, only a few days left.

16 bosforus  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:13:32pm

Oh shoot, this graph reminds me, I left my car running.

17 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:14:33pm

re: #13 Bagua

Where are you getting the information the Himalayan melting isn't true?

18 Ojoe  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:14:47pm

re: #15 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Good by, miserable decade.

19 Cato the Elder  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:16:33pm

re: #15 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Hey! Someone else who calls this the Naughties! Yay!

Gosh, only a few days left.

And Naughty they have been, but not in the fun sense.

20 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:18:11pm

Bwahaha. That's a hoot. Why, right outside my door, it's colder than it's been for years.

//

21 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:19:56pm

re: #6 Sharmuta

The Tragedy of the Himalayas

So, how much warming has there been over the last few decades to cause this... if it's even warmed by just a little and you get an effect this drastic, I wonder what would be the effect if we suddenly experienced a large increase in warming? The excerpt you referenced didn't give any temperature stats.

22 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:20:21pm

re: #20 SanFranciscoZionist

The same reports indicate that temps this past year were lower than average in the US and Canada, bucking the global trend for the year.

23 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:20:25pm

East Antarctica, Long Stable, Is Now Losing Ice

While the earth has been warming overall, the giant East Antarctic ice sheet — which holds about five times as much ice as West Antarctica and Greenland combined — has actually been growing in size. That's because East Antarctica is far too cold, even in summer, for any appreciable melting to happen. And since a warmer world means more precipitation, any extra snow that falls on East Antarctica stays there indefinitely.

Or at least, that's how things have gone until recently. But a new study in the journal Nature Geoscience suggests that this growth spurt may have come to an end. Starting in about 2006, says lead author Jianli Chen of the Center for Space Research at the University of Texas at Austin, East Antarctica started declining, just like the world's other great ice sheets. "The amount [of decline] right now isn't very big, but the trend is alarming," he says.

It's alarming because the behavior of ice sheets is the biggest variable in estimates of how sea levels will rise over the next century — the faster ice sheets melt, the more sea levels will rise. As recently as 2007, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) admitted in its fourth major climate-assessment report that there simply wasn't enough data to make a useful projection. But since then, satellite observations have shown that the ice in both Greenland and West Antarctica is sliding into the sea faster than anyone expected.

24 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:20:37pm

Regarding yesterday's outrageous outrage of the day...
WH Releases Open Government Directive

"Transparency promotes accountability by providing the public with information about what the Government is doing. Participation allows members of the public to contribute ideas and expertise so that their government can make policies with the benefit of information that is widely dispersed in society. Collaboration improves the effectiveness of Government by encouraging partnerships and cooperation within the Federal Government, across levels of government, and between the Government and private institutions."

Fascism!
/wingnut

25 DaddyG  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:22:16pm

WONDERFUL COPENHAGEN
(apologies to Frank Loesser)

Wonderful, wonderful Copenhagen
Boondoggle hosting town
District of red light
On this warming night
Let us hope that she goes down
Oh wonderful, wonderful Hopeandchangin
Sinking in rising seas
Once I sailed away
But I flew in today
Spewing CO2 from my jets at you
cause its carbon credits for me.

26 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:22:42pm

Photos: Peru's Sacred Glacier Is Melting

27 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:23:04pm

re: #25 DaddyG
I posted the real song yesterday.

I heart the heck out of Danny Kaye.

28 Kruk  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:23:53pm

re: #20 SanFranciscoZionist

Bwahaha. That's a hoot. Why, right outside my door, it's colder than it's been for years.

//

OT, but have you noticed how often Fox seems to follow a story about Global Warming with a report of a snowstorm or bitterly cold snap?

29 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:24:21pm

re: #22 lawhawk

The same reports indicate that temps this past year were lower than average in the US and Canada, bucking the global trend for the year.

Wait a minute, see my question at #21. How can temps be lower and we are loosing so much ice?

30 Kragar  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:26:20pm

re: #26 Sharmuta

Photos: Peru's Sacred Glacier Is Melting

Good article, but the photo of the pilgrims trying to sneak past the guard just seems like it has to be staged.

31 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:26:55pm

re: #28 Kruk

OT, but have you noticed how often Fox seems to follow a story about Global Warming with a report of a snowstorm or bitterly cold snap?

Not really. I very rarely watch them, unless something giant is going on, and I'm surfing channels looking for more coverage.

32 cliffster  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:27:23pm

re: #28 Kruk

OT, but have you noticed how often Fox seems to follow a story about Global Warming with a report of a snowstorm or bitterly cold snap?

They're out to get you.

33 Kragar  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:27:25pm

re: #29 Walter L. Newton

Wait a minute, see my question at #21. How can temps be lower and we are loosing so much ice?

Probably has to do with regional varitations in the average temperatures throughout the year.

34 Bagua  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:27:45pm

re: #17 Sharmuta

Where are you getting the information the Himalayan melting isn't true?

The melting is true, it has been confirmed that the glaciers are receding, as are many others. The part that is a possible typo is the date of 2035 which appears to have been a scriveners error as the original paper read 2350.

35 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:27:51pm

re: #29 Walter L. Newton

Wait a minute, see my question at #21. How can temps be lower and we are loosing so much ice?

The local trends didn't affect the overall global increase in temp. Why would a trend in North America stop melting in the Himalayas?

36 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:28:37pm

re: #34 Bagua

The melting is true, it has been confirmed that the glaciers are receding, as are many others. The part that is a possible typo is the date of 2035 which appears to have been a scriveners error as the original paper read 2350.

How do we know the original wasn't a typo?

37 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:29:33pm

re: #30 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Good article, but the photo of the pilgrims trying to sneak past the guard just seems like it has to be staged.

I agree on that one, otherwise an interesting aspect on climate change.

38 DaddyG  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:31:08pm

re: #30 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

...the photo of the pilgrims trying to sneak past the guard just seems like it has to be staged.

Didn't that say Gaza news service at the bottom of that photo? /

39 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:31:16pm

re: #29 Walter L. Newton

Temps may be lower locally in the US, but higher in other regions. But to try and extrapolate global temps from those registered in the US and Canada is going to be misleading.

Glaciers require several factors to form - temperature and precipitation. If one or the other is lacking, glaciers will either not form, or will shrink (lack of new ice formation from compacting snow).

Regional variations could include El Nino/La Nina oscillations, which have global effect.

40 Pepper Fox  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:31:50pm

Now I'm not one of those deniers, but you gotta wonder how accurate their measurements were up until the 20th century and then some. It is still a disturbing trend here in the past 50 years though.

41 Bagua  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:32:54pm

re: #36 Sharmuta

How do we know the original wasn't a typo?

I'll have to dig out the original paper. If the original paper had the typo, then its authors would have corrected it or the peer review would likely have caught it.

42 bosforus  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:33:52pm

re: #26 Sharmuta

Photos: Peru's Sacred Glacier Is Melting

Each year for centuries, the pilgrims would carry home a piece of the sacred glacier.

So they're the ones responsible!
/

43 recusancy  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:34:20pm

re: #40 Pepper Fox

Now I'm not one of those deniers, but you gotta wonder how accurate their measurements were up until the 20th century and then some. It is still a disturbing trend here in the past 50 years though.

Pretty accurate. They weren't cave men. Mercury expands and contracts at the same rate now as it did then.

44 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:34:23pm

re: #41 Bagua

Everything I've read since you mentioned it has said these glaciers will be gone within decades.

45 Kragar  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:35:03pm

re: #42 bosforus

So they're the ones responsible!
/

I thought that too!

"Well here is your problem."

46 bosforus  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:36:19pm

re: #45 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I thought that too!

"Well here is your problem."

I wonder if they've thought about putting in some pipes to get that runoff.

47 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:36:44pm

I'm kinda wondering, are bottled water sales starting to decline?

Just hoping. How big is that plastic island in the Pacific now? Or am I mis-remembering?

48 Pepper Fox  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:37:03pm

re: #43 recusancy

Pretty accurate. They weren't cave men. Mercury expands and contracts at the same rate now as it did then.

mmm mercury, the sweetest of the transition metals...

49 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:37:24pm

re: #35 Sharmuta

The local trends didn't affect the overall global increase in temp. Why would a trend in North America stop melting in the Himalayas?

I don't know about trends. I just assumed that we have had global warming (or cooling). How could one part of the planet warm enough to cause massive glaciers to melt in one place, and 6 thousand miles away, the temperature is doing something just the opposite.

I know know the answer, that's why I asked. Are you telling me there is data about a warming trend in the Himalayas and data about a cooling trend in North America?

Why is it when I ask an question about any of the AGW stuff, I get a lot of defensive replies?

50 ulmsey123  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:38:04pm

re: #39 lawhawk

Temps may be lower locally in the US, but higher in other regions. But to try and extrapolate global temps from those registered in the US and Canada is going to be misleading.

Glaciers require several factors to form - temperature and precipitation. If one or the other is lacking, glaciers will either not form, or will shrink (lack of new ice formation from compacting snow).

Regional variations could include El Nino/La Nina oscillations, which have global effect.

If you leave an ice cube tray in the freezer for a few weeks, you'll notice that the ice is disappearing. Either the freezer is broken or...

51 recusancy  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:38:07pm

re: #47 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm kinda wondering, are bottled water sales starting to decline?

Just hoping. How big is that plastic island in the Pacific now? Or am I mis-remembering?

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

52 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:39:01pm

re: #43 recusancy

Pretty accurate. They weren't cave men. Mercury expands and contracts at the same rate now as it did then.

And keeping records of temperature trends was something of a gentleman's hobby as early as the eighteenth century at least. Thomas Jefferson was forever buying fancy thermometers and keeping records.

53 Pepper Fox  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:39:28pm

re: #51 recusancy

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

You beat me to it! And I sure hope plastic bottle sales are declining, the BPA scare had to have had some effect. I alternate between my old HDPE Nalgene and my stainless steel Klean Kanteen for water.

54 Spider Mensch  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:39:50pm

re: #50 ulmsey123

If you leave an ice cube tray in the freezer for a few weeks, you'll notice that the ice is disappearing. Either the freezer is broken or...


mommy is up making those 4 am cocktails again...:)

55 Bagua  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:40:31pm

re: #36 Sharmuta

How do we know the original wasn't a typo?

Variations of Snow and Ice in the past and at present on a Global and Regional Scale

The degradation of the extrapolar glaciation of the Earth will be apparent in rising ocean level already by the year 2050, and there will be a drastic rise of the ocean thereafter caused by the deglaciation-derived runoff (see Table 11 ). This period will last from 200 to 300 years. The extrapolar glaciation of the Earth will be decaying at rapid, catastrophic rates—
its total area will shrink from 500,000 to 100,000 km² by the year 2350. Glaciers will survive only in the mountains of inner Alaska, on some Arctic archipelagos, within Patagonian ice sheets, in the Karakoram Mountains, in the Himalayas, in some regions of Tibet and on the highest mountain peaks in the temperature latitudes.

That is the source paper, the IPCC made the initial mistake, and now the WWF and Time magazine are parroting it.

56 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:40:51pm

re: #53 Pepper Fox

You beat me to it! And I sure hope plastic bottle sales are declining, the BPA scare had to have had some effect. I alternate between my old HDPE Nalgene and my stainless steel Klean Kanteen for water.

We're working on getting the kids at my school to use reusable water bottles. They get a discount on their lunch if they refill the container at the fountain, instead of taking a new bottle out of the fridge. We have snappy red bottles with the school logo on them.

57 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:41:19pm

re: #54 Spider Mensch

mommy is up making those 4 am cocktails again...:)

You're suggesting that Gaia has a secret drinking problem?

//

58 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:41:24pm

re: #50 ulmsey123

Sublimation.

59 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:41:53pm

re: #50 ulmsey123
I was kind of waiting for a Dean Martin joke there...

60 Pepper Fox  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:42:35pm

re: #49 Walter L. Newton

I don't know about trends. I just assumed that we have had global warming (or cooling). How could one part of the planet warm enough to cause massive glaciers to melt in one place, and 6 thousand miles away, the temperature is doing something just the opposite.

I know know the answer, that's why I asked. Are you telling me there is data about a warming trend in the Himalayas and data about a cooling trend in North America?

Why is it when I ask an question about any of the AGW stuff, I get a lot of defensive replies?

My reply to that sort of thing is, why does it matter if its a trend or man-caused? We should be doing common sense anyway like recycling and compost and using public transit and moving to nuclear and the like supplementing our power grid with solar/wind. It's not all hippy crap!

61 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:42:36pm

re: #49 Walter L. Newton

If you don't like how people are responding to you, it might be your approach.

As for the information you seek, I assume you're capable of finding it yourself. There have been more than enough links to various sites to help anyone find what they're looking for.

What I have been doing is trying to link stories for some folks to grasp the far reaching implications of warming. Things that they may or may not have thought about like what is going to happen to 3 billion Asians with no water? If that's created more confusion for you, I apologize, as it was not my intent.

62 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:42:59pm

re: #59 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I was kind of waiting for a Dean Martin joke there...

Oops! Got one!

63 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:43:32pm

General question...

Can anyone point me to some data or charts about warming trends in the Himalayas (or that region, or what ever would include that area).

And this article about the warmest decade, is that saying that globally there is a warming trend all over, or just in certain regions.

64 Bagua  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:45:03pm

re: #49 Walter L. Newton

I don't know about trends. I just assumed that we have had global warming (or cooling). How could one part of the planet warm enough to cause massive glaciers to melt in one place, and 6 thousand miles away, the temperature is doing something just the opposite.

I know know the answer, that's why I asked. Are you telling me there is data about a warming trend in the Himalayas and data about a cooling trend in North America?

Why is it when I ask an question about any of the AGW stuff, I get a lot of defensive replies?

Walter, it is definitely possible to have warming in one region and cooling in others. Much of this has to do with thermodynamics in the Ocean. For example, Global Warming could result in cooling in Europe should it shutdown or slowdown of the thermohaline circulation.

65 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:45:50pm

re: #60 Pepper Fox

My reply to that sort of thing is, why does it matter if its a trend or man-caused? We should be doing common sense anyway like recycling and compost and using public transit and moving to nuclear and the like supplementing our power grid with solar/wind. It's not all hippy crap!

I thought the science was important. And I'm not saying it's hippy crap, I'm not disagreeing with it at all, I'm simply asking for data. In that case, why post links to any articles, why post links to any science, we should just be "doing" something.

66 Pepper Fox  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:47:21pm

re: #65 Walter L. Newton

I thought the science was important. And I'm not saying it's hippy crap, I'm not disagreeing with it at all, I'm simply asking for data. In that case, why post links to any articles, why post links to any science, we should just be "doing" something.

Yeah I guess common sense ain't very common anymore...

67 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:48:11pm

re: #64 Bagua

Walter, it is definitely possible to have warming in one region and cooling in others. Much of this has to do with thermodynamics in the Ocean. For example, Global Warming could result in cooling in Europe should it shutdown or slowdown of the thermohaline circulation.

Thank you. (Why does anyone have a problem with me asking a question like that?)re: #61 Sharmuta

If you don't like how people are responding to you, it might be your approach.

As for the information you seek, I assume you're capable of finding it yourself. There have been more than enough links to various sites to help anyone find what they're looking for.

What I have been doing is trying to link stories for some folks to grasp the far reaching implications of warming. Things that they may or may not have thought about like what is going to happen to 3 billion Asians with no water? If that's created more confusion for you, I apologize, as it was not my intent.

Please point out what was wrong in my approach in asking this question...

"So, how much warming has there been over the last few decades to cause this... if it's even warmed by just a little and you get an effect this drastic, I wonder what would be the effect if we suddenly experienced a large increase in warming? The excerpt you referenced didn't give any temperature stats."

Sorry.

68 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:50:47pm

re: #64 Bagua

Walter, it is definitely possible to have warming in one region and cooling in others. Much of this has to do with thermodynamics in the Ocean. For example, Global Warming could result in cooling in Europe should it shutdown or slowdown of the thermohaline circulation.

So, we can have warming in one region and cooling at the same time in another region, and all caused by a single source, like Co2?

(maybe I should submit my questions to a jury of peers before I post them to make sure they qualify as a reasonable question).

69 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:51:00pm

This climate blogger makes the same case as the NYT article, with rather more concision and snark.

70 Christopher Luebcke  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:51:08pm

re: #49 Walter L. Newton

There's a truly massive amount of information in books and journals out there, a great deal of it linked from here in a myriad of posts. My impression (as an almost-constant lurker) is that regular posters here have spent a great deal of time repeating the same information over and over.

Plus, are you really gonna believe what anonymous posters in some comment thread tell you about science?

71 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:51:12pm

Well, lets put a positive spin on this... Instead of calling it the hottest decade, we can call it the hawtest decade, to the point of being gorgeous.

Yeah, I know, a pointless comment. It wouldn't be the first time... but it leads me to saying goodnight, y'all, and have a pleasant evening!

72 exelwood  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:51:14pm

The period from 2000 through 2009 has been “warmer than the 1990s, which were warmer than the 1980s and so on,” said Michel Jarraud, the secretary general of the international weather agency, speaking at a news conference at the climate talks in Copenhagen.

Ah, the 80s, I remember 22 days straight over 100 degrees in Texas, sure as hell warmed my globes. :)

73 Bagua  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:52:58pm

re: #68 Walter L. Newton

So, we can have warming in one region and cooling at the same time in another region, and all caused by a single source, like Co2?

(maybe I should submit my questions to a jury of peers before I post them to make sure they qualify as a reasonable question).

Yes, exactly. The general warming is a Global phenomenon. The way heat moves and dissipates via ocean currents has regional effects.

74 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:54:20pm

re: #70 Christopher Luebcke

There's a truly massive amount of information in books and journals out there, a great deal of it linked from here in a myriad of posts. My impression (as an almost-constant lurker) is that regular posters here have spent a great deal of time repeating the same information over and over.

Plus, are you really gonna believe what anonymous posters in some comment thread tell you about science?

Then why do we have the threads at all? And yes, I do and will believe people like Sharmuta and others. There's a real large community of people here, who have been here for years, and a lot of us have a lot of credibility with each other.

I don't even understand what your comment is about, but I think you are being snide.

75 Pacificlady  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:55:04pm

If temperatures are down in North America, does that mean we are doing something that is promoting global cooling? Maybe the rest of the globe should be copying us. Is Gibbs stuck on silly?

76 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:55:22pm

re: #55 Bagua

That paper is from 1996. You have nothing more current? Most of the data is now showing that previous models were low balling their estimates, so I don't know why I should consider something over a decade old as more reliable than models based on more current information.

77 Gang of One  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:56:50pm

re: #66 Pepper Fox

Yeah I guess common sense ain't very common anymore...

I know you! You're François-Marie Aroue, aren't you?!?!

78 Surabaya Stew  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:58:06pm

re: #52 SanFranciscoZionist

And keeping records of temperature trends was something of a gentleman's hobby as early as the eighteenth century at least. Thomas Jefferson was forever buying fancy thermometers and keeping records.

Not just the gentlemen either. Until automation replaced them, the majority of the weather stations across the United States were manned by volunteers. These were mostly average folks like you and and me, just taking the temperature, measuring the barometer, then recording the information faithfully for the greater good of the country.

79 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:58:14pm

re: #70 Christopher Luebcke

My impression (as an almost-constant lurker) is that regular posters here have spent a great deal of time repeating the same information over and over.

Well, excuse the hell out of us. Unfortunately, on many threads we have to debunk the same talking points over and over, just like it was on intelligent design threads.

80 Christopher Luebcke  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:58:30pm

re: #74 Walter L. Newton

And yes, I do and will believe people like Sharmuta and others.

Well, that's fine. It just seems to me that the biggest problem we face with this issue is people listening to what other people have to say about the science, instead of going directly to the science.

I don't even understand what your comment is about, but I think you are being snide.

Point is, even if somebody cites a fact that completely jibes with my notion of reality, I want to go to the source. Sorry for seeming snide.

81 Gang of One  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:58:42pm

re: #72 exelwood

The period from 2000 through 2009 has been “warmer than the 1990s, which were warmer than the 1980s and so on,” said Michel Jarraud, the secretary general of the international weather agency, speaking at a news conference at the climate talks in Copenhagen.

Ah, the 80s, I remember 22 days straight over 100 degrees in Texas, sure as hell warmed my globes. :)

Somebody put a forerunner of Viagra in the thermometers, I reckon.

82 bosforus  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:59:18pm

re: #70 Christopher Luebcke

Plus, are you really gonna believe what anonymous posters in some comment thread tell you about science?

That's what the links are for, smarty pants.

83 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:59:42pm

re: #73 Bagua

Yes, exactly. The general warming is a Global phenomenon. The way heat moves and dissipates via ocean currents has regional effects.

Then how do we find the right balance? I know this may sound silly, but I am honestly asking this... How do we balance out what is too much Co2 and what isn't. Is there a point that there is not enough Co2 floating around and that causes some other problem... really, can it be a too much, not enough scenario? How do we balance out which parts of the globe should have less Co2, how do we isolate it, it's not like the planet is divided into nice little parcels that we can manipulate, section by section?

84 Christopher Luebcke  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:59:44pm

re: #79 Sharmuta

That wasn't a criticism, though I see how it read that way. I should have injected "find themselves needing to" in there. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

85 Bagua  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 1:59:49pm

re: #76 Sharmuta

That paper is from 1996. You have nothing more current? Most of the data is now showing that previous models were low balling their estimates, so I don't know why I should consider something over a decade old as more reliable than models based on more current information.

Sharmuta,

I believe that to be the paper that the WWF is referring to, I'm not aware of any others. Things have not sped up by 350 years in the last 10 years.

The reason you should consider something over a decade old is because that is the paper cited by the IPCC which the WWF is parroting.

86 Christopher Luebcke  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:00:27pm

re: #82 bosforus

Hoo boy. My only point was that the links have been posted over and over and over again.

87 bosforus  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:00:56pm

re: #86 Christopher Luebcke

Hoo boy. My only point was that the links have been posted over and over and over again.

Got it. I took your comment the same way Sharmua did. No worries.

88 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:01:39pm

re: #80 Christopher Luebcke

How about this... there are people here that are the source, there are people here that know a hell of a lot more than you, and they can point you to the source... who the fuck do you think you are? Why don't you just tell all of us to go fuck off while you are at it?

I have a good idea, go back to lurking, jerk...

89 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:01:40pm

Time to update our list of conspiracies. Today Michelle Malkin and others are claiming that Obama is teaching children the sexual technique of "fisting" (don't google if you don't know what it is). They're calling it "Fistgate".
/Not kidding.

90 Obdicut  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:02:43pm

re: #88 Walter L. Newton

You're misinterpreting what he's saying.

91 tradewind  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:02:53pm

re: #89 Killgore Trout
Must you??

92 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:03:06pm

re: #68 Walter L. Newton

So, we can have warming in one region and cooling at the same time in another region, and all caused by a single source, like Co2?

(maybe I should submit my questions to a jury of peers before I post them to make sure they qualify as a reasonable question).

Walter, if it's a global warming primer you'd like, the wikipedia article is as good a starting point as any. The edit wars seem to be in abeyance at the moment, and there are tons of links to further reading.

93 ryannon  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:03:09pm

re: #79 Sharmuta

Well, excuse the hell out of us. Unfortunately, on many threads we have to debunk the same talking points over and over, just like it was on intelligent design threads.

I'll never forget how hard it was getting everyone to understand that the earth is only six thousand years old.

94 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:03:17pm

re: #89 Killgore Trout

Time to update our list of conspiracies. Today Michelle Malkin and others are claiming that Obama is teaching children the sexual technique of "fisting" (don't google if you don't know what it is). They're calling it "Fistgate".
/Not kidding.

I saw the link on Drudge. Didn't bother to click...

95 Christopher Luebcke  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:03:36pm

re: #88 Walter L. Newton

I seem to have stomped on your one remaining nerve, Walter. Sorry about that.

96 Bagua  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:03:36pm

re: #83 Walter L. Newton

Then how do we find the right balance? I know this may sound silly, but I am honestly asking this... How do we balance out what is too much Co2 and what isn't. Is there a point that there is not enough Co2 floating around and that causes some other problem... really, can it be a too much, not enough scenario? How do we balance out which parts of the globe should have less Co2, how do we isolate it, it's not like the planet is divided into nice little parcels that we can manipulate, section by section?

Certainly, too little atmospheric CO2 and plant grow will stop. Part of the revolution in modern agriculture is the influence of CO2 enrichment.

However, that scenario is quite far into the future.

97 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:03:49pm

re: #86 Christopher Luebcke

Hoo boy. My only point was that the links have been posted over and over and over again.

No, you point was also to put down the Lizards... "Plus, are you really gonna believe what anonymous posters in some comment thread tell you about science?"

Guess what? Yes we are. There is a lot of respect for each other going on here... but that seems to be something that you are lacking.

98 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:03:50pm

re: #68 Walter L. Newton

So, we can have warming in one region and cooling at the same time in another region, and all caused by a single source, like Co2?

(maybe I should submit my questions to a jury of peers before I post them to make sure they qualify as a reasonable question).

Where are you getting to information any cooling in North America was caused by CO2?

I believe there was a meteor that struck Canada not too long ago, I want to say. It's possible this collision raised some dust into the atmosphere over North America, and that's why we had some variations from the global trend.

I'm not sure why you feel people are defensive with you. It might be frustration with the issue overall? I'm surprised a little at how much resistance there is to looking at the information. Most of the videos Charles has posted in the last few months have helped me tremendously, and if I can understand it, I think anyone could. I have to wonder if people are watching them.

99 Surabaya Stew  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:04:41pm

re: #89 Killgore Trout

You're not kidding...(tears hair out from the root)

100 fangncurl  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:05:02pm

Anyone here read the critique of data integrity by Willis Eschenbach? He tries to show that a careful analysis of the raw CRU temperature data from 1892 - 1992 indicates a slight cooling while the CRU-adjusted data shows a significant temperature increase. The adjustment does seem a bit wacky... Just wondering if people find this analysis convincing? Why/why not?

101 Bagua  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:05:25pm

re: #97 Walter L. Newton

No, you point was also to put down the Lizards... "Plus, are you really gonna believe what anonymous posters in some comment thread tell you about science?"

Guess what? Yes we are. There is a lot of respect for each other going on here... but that seems to be something that you are lacking.

Agreed, we debate and exchange ideas here because that is what we do. We trust, or doubt, other posters based upon their history here and our past experience.

102 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:05:33pm

re: #86 Christopher Luebcke

Hoo boy. My only point was that the links have been posted over and over and over again.

And would you believe that posting a link doesn't mean people will click it?

103 allegro  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:06:02pm

re: #98 Sharmuta

Most of the videos Charles has posted in the last few months have helped me tremendously, and if I can understand it, I think anyone could. I have to wonder if people are watching them.

From the way I read Christopher's post, that was exactly what he was trying to say.

104 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:06:48pm

re: #89 Killgore Trout

Time to update our list of conspiracies. Today Michelle Malkin and others are claiming that Obama is teaching children the sexual technique of "fisting" (don't google if you don't know what it is). They're calling it "Fistgate".
/Not kidding.

Um.

WHAAAT?

And yes, I know what fisting is. That's not the part I'm reacting to.

105 Bagua  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:07:02pm

re: #98 Sharmuta

Where are you getting to information any cooling in North America was caused by CO2?

[...]

You miss Walter's point. He is asking how Global Warming due to CO2 increase could cause regional cooling in Europe.

106 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:07:47pm

re: #104 SanFranciscoZionist

It seems Breitbart and Drudge are on the story too. I can't wait to see if Beck covers the story.

107 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:08:24pm

re: #98 Sharmuta

Where are you getting to information any cooling in North America was caused by CO2?

I believe there was a meteor that struck Canada not too long ago, I want to say. It's possible this collision raised some dust into the atmosphere over North America, and that's why we had some variations from the global trend.

I'm not sure why you feel people are defensive with you. It might be frustration with the issue overall? I'm surprised a little at how much resistance there is to looking at the information. Most of the videos Charles has posted in the last few months have helped me tremendously, and if I can understand it, I think anyone could. I have to wonder if people are watching them.

I'm sorry, I though there was cooling going on, I get confused. And videos don't come in on my slower DSL that I have up here in the mountains, and there is usually 2-3 other computers operating over the same router at the same time around here.

108 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:09:04pm

Guys, can I translate? I think Walter's question was: "If everything is generally heating up, but North America is cooling, how come? Info please?" It was not, AFAICT, intended to express disbelief, skepticism, snark, or anything but a straightforward scientific question.

We now return to Fistgate, previously in progress.

WHAAAT?

109 Digital Display  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:09:35pm

OT: Tiger Woods got dropped by Gatorade today...
I find it hard that Madison Ave. Couldn't sell more Gatorade from a spokesman that has a hot wife and 10 mistresses..
What were they thinking?
/

110 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:10:07pm

re: #105 Bagua

You miss Walter's point. He is asking how Global Warming due to CO2 increase could cause regional cooling in Europe.

I got Walter's point just fine. In true Walter fashion, he is being difficult. I'm not worried about bringing him around in the end as he's intelligent enough to read and understand once he gets the information he's looking for.

111 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:10:48pm

re: #109 HoosierHoops

OT: Tiger Woods got dropped by Gatorade today...
I find it hard that Madison Ave. Couldn't sell more Gatorade from a spokesman that has a hot wife and 10 mistresses..
What were they thinking?
/

Hydration is the key.
//

112 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:11:49pm

re: #105 Bagua

You miss Walter's point. He is asking how Global Warming due to CO2 increase could cause regional cooling in Europe.

That's what I was trying to say. That's why I keep telling everyone here that I am not anti-AGW, it's just that this kind of science escapes me, and when I do venture forth to try to get some sort of understanding from someone, I get snapped at.

If we talk databases, data manipulation, programming, that sort of computer science, I'm miles ahead of most people. But this kind of hard science is not my cup of tea.

It's really not worth asking questions on this subject.

113 cliffster  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:11:54pm

re: #109 HoosierHoops

OT: Tiger Woods got dropped by Gatorade today...
I find it hard that Madison Ave. Couldn't sell more Gatorade from a spokesman that has a hot wife and 10 mistresses..
What were they thinking?
/

Probably a chick CEO.

114 tradewind  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:12:39pm

re: #89 Killgore Trout
She claimed no such thing. She stated, correctly, that Kevin Jennings, Obama's ' safe schools ' czar , had passed out ' fisting kits ' (google it) to children, which is disgusting enough, and that he was at it again.
And she's right.
Remember, we're supposed to judge POTUS by ' the people I gather around me'.
But ...way to whip up some emotion, KT.///

115 Christopher Luebcke  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:13:06pm

re: #103 allegro

From the way I read Christopher's post, that was exactly what he was trying to say.

Ineptly, obviously, but yes.

116 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:13:56pm

re: #110 Sharmuta

I got Walter's point just fine. In true Walter fashion, he is being difficult. I'm not worried about bringing him around in the end as he's intelligent enough to read and understand once he gets the information he's looking for.

No I'm not. Why is it no one wants to listen to me on that subject. Hard science is not my balliwick, never was, it escapes me. And beating me over the head is not the way to do it. What the fuck is wrong?

117 gamark  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:14:22pm

Does anyone know what peer-reviewed paper this press release is based on? It isn't trustworthy science if its not peer-reviewed right?

118 cliffster  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:14:27pm

re: #108 SanFranciscoZionist

Guys, can I translate? I think Walter's question was: "If everything is generally heating up, but North America is cooling, how come? Info please?" It was not, AFAICT, intended to express disbelief, skepticism, snark, or anything but a straightforward scientific question.

We now return to Fistgate, previously in progress.

WHAAAT?

I'll bet there's more information on the internet about fisting than there is about AGW.

119 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:14:44pm

re: #104 SanFranciscoZionist

Um.

WHAAAT?

And yes, I know what fisting is. That's not the part I'm reacting to.

Gateway Pundit has more. You needn't have to fall for the attempted Obama connection to be disgusted.

120 Surabaya Stew  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:15:00pm

re: #89 Killgore Trout

Time to update our list of conspiracies. Today Michelle Malkin and others are claiming that Obama is teaching children the sexual technique of "fisting" (don't google if you don't know what it is). They're calling it "Fistgate".
/Not kidding.

How is this worse than the dental dams there were passed out in my High School 17 years ago?

121 albusteve  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:15:07pm

re: #108 SanFranciscoZionist

Guys, can I translate? I think Walter's question was: "If everything is generally heating up, but North America is cooling, how come? Info please?" It was not, AFAICT, intended to express disbelief, skepticism, snark, or anything but a straightforward scientific question.

We now return to Fistgate, previously in progress.

WHAAAT?

the Silent Duck!...woooeee...why in the world would MO be teaching this to kids?...I don't see it at Drudge but he does have a story about an assault with a raw steak...

122 Bagua  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:15:11pm

re: #112 Walter L. Newton

[...]

It's really not worth asking questions on this subject.

True, it doesn't seem like people are really interested in debate on this issue, just getting everyone on board with the belief system and demonising the heretics.

123 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:15:28pm

re: #108 SanFranciscoZionist

Guys, can I translate? I think Walter's question was: "If everything is generally heating up, but North America is cooling, how come? Info please?" It was not, AFAICT, intended to express disbelief, skepticism, snark, or anything but a straightforward scientific question.

We now return to Fistgate, previously in progress.

WHAAAT?

I wasn't "fisting" anyone. Why would you make a comment like that?

124 lostlakehiker  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:16:01pm

The graph clearly shows that temperatures dropped over the span from 1944 to 1992! Proof, proof POSITIVE, that these egg-heads are trying to stampede us into a one world government. How could they say temperatures are rising, when they fall nearly every other year! How!!?

These overpaid "intellectuals" are just full of hot air.

(I can emulate the deniers on my own wetware. My model tracks their behavior just fine.)

125 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:16:04pm

re: #112 Walter L. Newton

That's what I was trying to say. That's why I keep telling everyone here that I am not anti-AGW, it's just that this kind of science escapes me, and when I do venture forth to try to get some sort of understanding from someone, I get snapped at.

If we talk databases, data manipulation, programming, that sort of computer science, I'm miles ahead of most people. But this kind of hard science is not my cup of tea.

It's really not worth asking questions on this subject.

Maybe you need to ask your questions at the right place. I "asked" google about "North American cooling trend" and found this piece from NOAA:

North American 2008 Cooling Attributed to Natural Causes

Cool sea surface temperatures overrode warming

Cooler North American temperatures in 2008 resulted from a strong natural effect, and the overall warming trend that has been observed since 1970 is likely to resume, according to university and NOAA scientists.

“Our work shows that there can be cold periods, but that does not mean the end of global warming. The recent coolness was caused by transitory natural factors that temporarily masked the human-caused signal,” said Judith Perlwitz, lead author of the study and a researcher with the Cooperative Institute for Research Environmental Sciences, and NOAA Earth System Research Laboratory, both in Boulder, Colo. The paper will be published Dec. 8 in Geophysical Research Letters.

Google is your friend, people. And you're welcome, Walter.

126 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:16:07pm

re: #123 Walter L. Newton

I wasn't "fisting" anyone. Why would you make a comment like that?

KT's No. 89.

127 cliffster  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:17:33pm

re: #123 Walter L. Newton

I wasn't "fisting" anyone. Why would you make a comment like that?

Well, you said it was snowing a lot. House in the mountains, locked in by snow, seconds turn into minutes, minutes into hours, Flintstones re-runs are getting old...

128 tradewind  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:17:37pm

re: #119 The Sanity Inspector
It's not so much an attempted connection... he appointed the guy head of his Safe Schools program.
I don't know about ya'll, but I wouldn't consider Kevin Jennings the ideal person to put in charge of making sure that my child's school was safe in any way.

129 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:17:47pm

re: #126 MandyManners

KT's No. 89.

I still don't know what it was tagged on to my comment?

130 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:18:13pm

re: #127 cliffster

Well, you said it was snowing a lot. House in the mountains, locked in by snow, seconds turn into minutes, minutes into hours, Flintstones re-runs are getting old...

And so is your humor.

131 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:18:41pm

re: #116 Walter L. Newton

No I'm not. Why is it no one wants to listen to me on that subject. Hard science is not my balliwick, never was, it escapes me. And beating me over the head is not the way to do it. What the fuck is wrong?

I'm sorry. It gets a little frustrating at times when people can't google, and not just on this issue, but on countless issues. My apologies for taking my frustrations out on you.

132 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:19:15pm

re: #128 tradewind

I didn't click the story. Was it that bad?

133 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:19:26pm

re: #89 Killgore Trout

Time to update our list of conspiracies. Today Michelle Malkin and others are claiming that Obama is teaching children the sexual technique of "fisting" (don't google if you don't know what it is). They're calling it "Fistgate".
/Not kidding.

Yep. It's another pile of crap dug up by Jim Hoft. The idea is that because Obama's Education czar Kevin Jennings was a founder of GLSEN, that means he's personally responsible for every book they recommend.

I followed one of their links to the GLSEN site, and these books all have a very clear disclaimer:

All BookLink items are reviewed by GLSEN staff for quality and appropriateness of content. However, some titles for adolescent readers contain mature themes. We recommend that adults selecting books for youth review content for suitability. The editorial and customer reviews listed at Amazon.com often provide information on mature content.

The homophobia of the right wing -- reeking atcha.

134 albusteve  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:19:27pm

bizarre moment in time here on this thread

135 avanti  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:20:35pm

re: #105 Bagua

You miss Walter's point. He is asking how Global Warming due to CO2 increase could cause regional cooling in Europe.

Co2 warming causes ice melts, which changes the salt level in ocean currents, warm surface water layers go deep before reaching Europe, thus cooling it.

136 tradewind  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:21:00pm

re: #109 HoosierHoops
Tiger should fire his PR rep or spokesman ... this whole thing never had to take off the way that it did. Too bad.

137 cliffster  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:21:06pm

re: #130 Walter L. Newton

And so is your humor.

Hey sorry man, just a little joke and you normally seem to go right along with things. My apologies and I'll leave you alone.

138 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:22:02pm

re: #133 Charles

The homophobia of the right wing -- reeking atcha.

I get the impression from the Founding Bloggers threads on Fistgate that the vile Phelps clan has taken an interest in the story.

139 lostlakehiker  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:22:16pm

re: #68 Walter L. Newton

So, we can have warming in one region and cooling at the same time in another region, and all caused by a single source, like Co2?

(maybe I should submit my questions to a jury of peers before I post them to make sure they qualify as a reasonable question).

Yes, in principle. There can be dominoes lined up in such a way that global warming leads to some local cooling in some places. Here's the scenario.

Posit Lake Agasiz, much larger than Superior etc. but in the same general vicinity. Posit an ice age glacier, not a land mass, forming part of the shores of the lake.

A change in global climate can cause that glacier to retreat, releasing into Hudson Bay and then the North Atlantic a deluge of cold fresh water that had been impounded behind the glacier. That could have disrupted the gulf stream, cooling Europe for a while. The new circulation pattern could have been somewhat stable, leading to a prolonged cold snap in Europe.

140 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:22:31pm

re: #128 tradewind

It's not so much an attempted connection... he appointed the guy head of his Safe Schools program.
I don't know about ya'll, but I wouldn't consider Kevin Jennings the ideal person to put in charge of making sure that my child's school was safe in any way.

If he were trying to distribute Bible tracts in the schools, he'd probably be subpoenaed by Congress.

141 SixDegrees  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:22:40pm

re: #76 Sharmuta

That paper is from 1996. You have nothing more current? Most of the data is now showing that previous models were low balling their estimates, so I don't know why I should consider something over a decade old as more reliable than models based on more current information.

Back of the envelope: if we assume that all 500,000 km^2 of ice melts and spreads evenly over the ocean's 130 million square mile surface, that represents 5x10^14 cubic meters of ice spread over ~3.5X10^14 square meters, or about a 1.4 meter increase in sea level, total.

Given that most of the predictions I've seen for the next few decades express expected sea level increases on the order of centimeters, the 2350 date seems reasonable.

142 tradewind  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:22:50pm

re: #132 Cannadian Club Akbar
I read two different stories, and one of them actually first happened in 2001 with Jennings. This new incident is a redux.
Yes, it was that bad.
I am not in the least homophobic, or care what consenting adults do sexually... but this is criminal behavior when it is related to children, IMO.

143 recusancy  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:22:51pm

See the graph above. Some years drop off from others but the overall obvious trend is upward.

The globe can increase in temperature as a whole while small regional pockets vary in how fast they increase. The trend for every region is warmer but some years the temp may be down (compared to the last year) while in others it may be excessively warmer then the last. Even though regions in North America were cooler part of this year as compared the year prior does not change the fact that they are warmer then in decades prior.

What is considered normal keeps going up so when one year is below normal they don't mean below a baseline of what normal was in 1950. They mean normal by averaging in all the higher temps that have come since then.

144 Bagua  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:23:06pm

re: #135 avanti

Co2 warming causes ice melts, which changes the salt level in ocean currents, warm surface water layers go deep before reaching Europe, thus cooling it.

Yes I know, I answered that above in my comments #64 & #73

145 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:23:27pm

re: #123 Walter L. Newton

I wasn't "fisting" anyone. Why would you make a comment like that?

A reference to a parallel discussion.

146 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:23:36pm

re: #89 Killgore Trout

Time to update our list of conspiracies. Today Michelle Malkin and others are claiming that Obama is teaching children the sexual technique of "fisting" (don't google if you don't know what it is). They're calling it "Fistgate".
/Not kidding.

Jennings should be bitch-slapped and thrown under the bus immediately.

147 albusteve  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:24:07pm

re: #136 tradewind

Tiger should fire his PR rep or spokesman ... this whole thing never had to take off the way that it did. Too bad.

he's baked...this is how it works in this culture...even if the whole story is false the damage has been done...they love you for your success, then they hate you for the same reason...Tiger let alot of people down that have a fantasy about him...Tiger is not real, his image is

148 tradewind  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:24:19pm

re: #133 Charles
This story has nothing to do with homophobia, although it certainly will not convince anyone who already holds that unfortunate mindset that they are wrong.

149 avanti  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:24:27pm

re: #144 Bagua

Yes I know, I answered that above in my comments #64 & #73

Sorry, just trying to help Walter out and missed your reply.

150 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:24:38pm

re: #137 cliffster

Hey sorry man, just a little joke and you normally seem to go right along with things. My apologies and I'll leave you alone.

Well, what can I say... I've spent the first 137 comments on this thread being reminded how stupid I am. And remindering others how stupid I am when it comes to science.

151 Bagua  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:25:38pm

re: #150 Walter L. Newton

Well, Gibbs did say you were silly.

152 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:26:05pm

re: #139 lostlakehiker

Yes, in principle. There can be dominoes lined up in such a way that global warming leads to some local cooling in some places. Here's the scenario.

Posit Lake Agasiz, much larger than Superior etc. but in the same general vicinity. Posit an ice age glacier, not a land mass, forming part of the shores of the lake.

A change in global climate can cause that glacier to retreat, releasing into Hudson Bay and then the North Atlantic a deluge of cold fresh water that had been impounded behind the glacier. That could have disrupted the gulf stream, cooling Europe for a while. The new circulation pattern could have been somewhat stable, leading to a prolonged cold snap in Europe.

Got it... thanks.

153 Digital Display  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:26:09pm

re: #136 tradewind

Tiger should fire his PR rep or spokesman ... this whole thing never had to take off the way that it did. Too bad.

Well maybe a good PR person could pull his ass out of the fire for a mistress..
You know anybody that can spin out of 10 mistresses? Even George Clooney in Micheal Clayton would have asked for a 2 week vacation to Italy and an advance on his pay...

154 tradewind  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:26:34pm

re: #147 albusteve
The first few days, it could have been a done and over deal. Tiger cooked his own goose by his silly panic and overreaction.
Not that he didn't have it coming... if the reports re the number of women ( none of which, from the pictures, could even hold a candle to his gorgeous wife, just to add insult to injury) are true, he has a real sexual addiction problem.

155 SixDegrees  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:26:58pm

re: #83 Walter L. Newton

Then how do we find the right balance? I know this may sound silly, but I am honestly asking this... How do we balance out what is too much Co2 and what isn't. Is there a point that there is not enough Co2 floating around and that causes some other problem... really, can it be a too much, not enough scenario? How do we balance out which parts of the globe should have less Co2, how do we isolate it, it's not like the planet is divided into nice little parcels that we can manipulate, section by section?

Atmospheric mixing is extremely efficient; I doubt you'd find local variances except around prolific point sources of CO2, like volcanoes. Overall, I'd expect the concentration would even out very quickly, even if one continent were almost exclusively responsible for emissions.

And yes, too little CO2 is bad. Ask any plant. Not sure what the effect might be on climate, although the part of Michigan I'm currently typing from was underneath about two solid miles of ice pretty recently.

156 tradewind  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:27:10pm

re: #153 HoosierHoops
See mine right below yours... I agree.

157 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:27:18pm

re: #151 Bagua

Well, Gibbs did say you were silly.

Gibbs?

158 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:28:21pm

re: #157 Walter L. Newton

Gibbs?

I think Bagua was thinking of a joke by FBV. A mix up?

159 Bagua  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:28:41pm

re: #149 avanti

Sorry, just trying to help Walter out and missed your reply.

No problem mate!

160 Bagua  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:29:29pm

re: #157 Walter L. Newton

Gibbs?

Prior thread, Gibbs has announced that Climategate is "silly".

161 recusancy  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:29:51pm

re: #155 SixDegrees

Atmospheric mixing is extremely efficient; I doubt you'd find local variances except around prolific point sources of CO2, like volcanoes. Overall, I'd expect the concentration would even out very quickly, even if one continent were almost exclusively responsible for emissions.

And yes, too little CO2 is bad. Ask any plant. Not sure what the effect might be on climate, although the part of Michigan I'm currently typing from was underneath about two solid miles of ice pretty recently.

I here we're supposed to be under about two solid miles of ice after the storm tomorrow. :)

162 lostlakehiker  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:29:54pm

re: #83 Walter L. Newton

Then how do we find the right balance? I know this may sound silly, but I am honestly asking this... How do we balance out what is too much Co2 and what isn't. Is there a point that there is not enough Co2 floating around and that causes some other problem... really, can it be a too much, not enough scenario? How do we balance out which parts of the globe should have less Co2, how do we isolate it, it's not like the planet is divided into nice little parcels that we can manipulate, section by section?

There is no way to confine atmospheric CO2. However much there is, it's going to be well mixed by the winds. As to "can there be too little", yes, indeed. LONG term, that's going to be a problem. Grass is a relatively recent biological phenomenon. How has grass come to be so successful? Grasses can get more CO2 out of a thinner atmospheric concentration than other plants, for the same biological "price". Thus, in a CO2-impoverished world, they prosper.

As the sun warms, (time scale hundreds of millions of years), natural weathering accelerates and this draws CO2 out of the atmosphere, fixing it in limestone etc. Meanwhile, volcanoes recycle it at a constant or diminishing rate. World CO2 concentration is falling, from one billion-year epoch to the next, and it will eventually drop to a point that kills most non-grass plants.

This is a problem for the people of the distant future. They'll have to move the planet gradually away from the sun to avert this. For now, our problem is too much CO2.

163 Digital Display  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:29:56pm

re: #154 tradewind

The first few days, it could have been a done and over deal. Tiger cooked his own goose by his silly panic and overreaction.
Not that he didn't have it coming... if the reports re the number of women ( none of which, from the pictures, could even hold a candle to his gorgeous wife, just to add insult to injury) are true, he has a real sexual addiction problem.

For years the PGA has been referred to by Golfers as the P*ssy Galore Association

164 tradewind  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:30:02pm

re: #140 The Sanity Inspector
Oh, they'd skip that step and just send him straight to jail.///
:)
I'm still laughing at the fact that but for the old fuddy-duddy former WH social secretaries and their luncheon, Desiree Washington would have been correct and the Obamas would have pulled every sign of the nativity from the WH this Christmas.

165 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:30:14pm

re: #141 SixDegrees

Back of the envelope: if we assume that all 500,000 km^2 of ice melts and spreads evenly over the ocean's 130 million square mile surface, that represents 5x10^14 cubic meters of ice spread over ~3.5X10^14 square meters, or about a 1.4 meter increase in sea level, total.

Given that most of the predictions I've seen for the next few decades express expected sea level increases on the order of centimeters, the 2350 date seems reasonable.

My understanding is the system is more dynamic than that. The way the ice is melting in Greenland, for example, with the land, water, and air dynamics- not just temps but evaporation, too. Everything is melting more quickly than originally predicted, but I wouldn't doubt it would take longer than our lifetimes to melt all the worlds ice. That doesn't mean the predictions on the Himalayan glaciers are incorrect.

166 tradewind  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:30:40pm

re: #161 recusancy
TN's had the coldest October on record, so I guess we're not included in the stats.

167 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:30:53pm

re: #150 Walter L. Newton

I don't think you're stupid, and I never have. Cranky, but not stupid.

168 What, me worry?  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:30:56pm

re: #148 tradewind

This story has nothing to do with homophobia, although it certainly will not convince anyone who already holds that unfortunate mindset that they are wrong.

It absolutely does. It's the most ludicrous attack on, not just the President, but his wife, about something that is wholely untrue. They are saying, "See what happens when you let these gays run rampant? They'll teach your children about homosexual sex." Well it's worse than that. The commie President will teach your children about homosexual sex!

It's a lie and they know it's a lie.

(Need I mention that homosexual sex has been around for 1000s of years?)

169 marsl  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:31:00pm

re: #7 bosforus

What do have against Celsius or metric measures?

170 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:31:01pm

re: #106 Killgore Trout

It seems Breitbart and Drudge are on the story too. I can't wait to see if Beck covers the story.

Can he actually say 'fisting' on Fox?

171 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:31:15pm

re: #155 SixDegrees

re: #162 lostlakehiker

Thanks, both of you.

172 SixDegrees  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:31:39pm

re: #161 recusancy

I here we're supposed to be under about two solid miles of ice after the storm tomorrow. :)

It's supposed to dump most of it's frozen load north of me, but still too close for comfort. A small shift in the rain/snow line could bury us instead of drench us.

173 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:32:22pm

re: #114 tradewind

She claimed no such thing. She stated, correctly, that Kevin Jennings, Obama's ' safe schools ' czar , had passed out ' fisting kits ' (google it) to children, which is disgusting enough, and that he was at it again.
And she's right.
Remember, we're supposed to judge POTUS by ' the people I gather around me'.
But ...way to whip up some emotion, KT.///

I'm going to read up carefully on what actually happened before buying this. I have been burned too many times by these hysterics.

174 brookly red  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:32:25pm

re: #170 SanFranciscoZionist

Can he actually say 'fisting' on Fox?

if you can say teabagging you can say fisting...

175 avanti  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:33:22pm

The guy that wrote the e-mail about the terrorist dry run on a airline still claims it's true. Since he was not on the flight, I wonder how he saved the day for the passengers.

link..

176 marsl  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:33:44pm

re: #38 DaddyG

Didn't that say Gaza news service at the bottom of that photo? /

Haha. Priceless.

177 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:34:30pm

re: #174 brookly red

if you can say teabagging you can say fisting...

I had never heard of teabagging before Anderson Cooper (or whoever) brought it up.

178 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:34:52pm

re: #140 The Sanity Inspector

If he were trying to distribute Bible tracts in the schools, he'd probably be subpoenaed by Congress.

You think they should let him?

179 brookly red  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:35:50pm

re: #177 Cannadian Club Akbar

I had never heard of teabagging before Anderson Cooper (or whoever) brought it up.

you can say lot of stuff on TV that people think you can't...

180 cliffster  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:36:15pm

re: #147 albusteve

he's baked...this is how it works in this culture...even if the whole story is false the damage has been done...they love you for your success, then they hate you for the same reason...Tiger let alot of people down that have a fantasy about him...Tiger is not real, his image is

Something tells me they'll still be lined up 25 deep along the fairways wherever he plays.

181 tradewind  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:37:11pm

re: #168 marjoriemoon
Sorry, but I think it has nothing to do with homophobia. If they were passing out kits to teach children unsafe heterosexual practices ( which fisting certainly is... very dangerous for children especially) there should be the same furor. And Obama is linked only by association... he probably knew nothing about it, and I am sure he wouldn't want his daughters exposed to that sort of ' education'. ** It's his appointment of people who hold radical... truly radical ideas that is disturbing.
** and at Sidwell Friends, I doubt he has to worry

182 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:37:20pm

re: #179 brookly red

you can say lot of stuff on TV that people think you can't...

I know. I've seen Family Guy.

183 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:37:22pm

re: #168 marjoriemoon

It absolutely does. It's the most ludicrous attack on, not just the President, but his wife, about something that is wholely untrue. They are saying, "See what happens when you let these gays run rampant? They'll teach your children about homosexual sex." Well it's worse than that. The commie President will teach your children about homosexual sex!

It's a lie and they know it's a lie.

(Need I mention that homosexual sex has been around for 1000s of years?)

Fisting is not a uniquely homosexual act. Also.

I'm just going to read some more on this. Like I said, these folks have lied and exaggerated and cry-y-yed too many times for me to believe them without a lot of research.

184 albusteve  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:37:46pm

re: #180 cliffster

Something tells me they'll still be lined up 25 deep along the fairways wherever he plays.

probably...but the endorsement money is already drying up, and that's what counts

185 Gus  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:37:59pm

re: #175 avanti

The guy that wrote the e-mail about the terrorist dry run on a airline still claims it's true. Since he was not on the flight, I wonder how he saved the day for the passengers.

link..

I find it amazing that people who think that the media hypes up news reports (particularly with regards to AGW) are willing to accept hyped up blogger stories based on an alleged account that was emailed by a heretofore unidentified source.

186 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:38:21pm

re: #175 avanti

The guy that wrote the e-mail about the terrorist dry run on a airline still claims it's true. Since he was not on the flight, I wonder how he saved the day for the passengers.

link..

Has he given any response to the airline's claims that he was not on the flight?

187 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:38:47pm

re: #177 Cannadian Club Akbar

I had never heard of teabagging before Anderson Cooper (or whoever) brought it up.

And don't you feel better now that you know?

/

188 bosforus  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:38:54pm

re: #177 Cannadian Club Akbar

I had never heard of teabagging before Anderson Cooper (or whoever) brought it up.

I learned through Halo (video game).

189 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:39:08pm

re: #183 SanFranciscoZionist

Fisting is not a uniquely homosexual act. Also.

I'm just going to read some more on this. Like I said, these folks have lied and exaggerated and cry-y-yed too many times for me to believe them without a lot of research.

I'm past that point. I don't even want to chase after the bullshit any more, because I know it's going to turn out to be bullshit. The credibility of the right wing blogosphere is completely in the toilet.

190 tradewind  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:39:27pm

re: #184 albusteve
Often what happens in stuff like this is the endorsements will quietly return when the story dies down. If Tiger continues to win tournaments and cleans up his personal act, they will all be back.
But he's going to need time and a very good PR rep.

191 brookly red  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:41:13pm

re: #181 tradewind

Sorry, but I think it has nothing to do with homophobia. If they were passing out kits to teach children unsafe heterosexual practices ( which fisting certainly is... very dangerous for children especially) there should be the same furor. And Obama is linked only by association... he probably knew nothing about it, and I am sure he wouldn't want his daughters exposed to that sort of ' education'. ** It's his appointment of people who hold radical... truly radical ideas that is disturbing.
** and at Sidwell Friends, I doubt he has to worry

well true but being someone's boss is kinda more of an association than some others...

192 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:41:25pm

re: #187 SanFranciscoZionist

And don't you feel better now that you know?

/


Ah, no!!

re: #188 bosforus

I learned through Halo (video game).

Another reason I'm not a gamer.

193 Bagua  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:41:33pm

re: #185 Gus 802

I find it amazing that people who think that the media hypes up news reports (particularly with regards to AGW) are willing to accept hyped up blogger stories based on an alleged account that was emailed by a heretofore unidentified source.

Bloggers have proven themselves just as superficial and herd following as the vile MSM they claim to be reforming. Once the story is out there, they all rush to join in without fact checking.

(This blog being a notable exception)

194 albusteve  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:41:37pm

re: #190 tradewind

Often what happens in stuff like this is the endorsements will quietly return when the story dies down. If Tiger continues to win tournaments and cleans up his personal act, they will all be back.
But he's going to need time and a very good PR rep.

I don't recall right off this happening to a personality as popular as Woods...but you may be right. who knows?

195 davesax  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:43:13pm

I can't wait to see what happens when a herpies vaccine is introduced, and people propose giving it to kids.

The right will positively explode.

196 Gus  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:43:35pm

re: #193 Bagua

Bloggers have proven themselves just as superficial and herd following as the vile MSM they claim to be reforming. Once the story is out there, they all rush to join in without fact checking.

(This blog being a notable exception)

Yes. And one urban legend is born almost weekly. Perhaps daily. People just blindly accept some of these blog accounts. The chain emails are even worse.

197 ryannon  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:43:53pm

re: #194 albusteve

I don't recall right off this happening to a personality as popular as Woods...but you may be right. who knows?

Bill Clinton landed on his feet after MonicaGate.

198 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:44:03pm

re: #195 davesax

What in the world?

199 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:44:53pm

re: #183 SanFranciscoZionist

Fisting is not a uniquely homosexual act. Also.

I'm just going to read some more on this. Like I said, these folks have lied and exaggerated and cry-y-yed too many times for me to believe them without a lot of research.

It's probably not true. At best it's probably a distortion/half truth. I don't take this stuff seriously enough to investigate anymore. Malkin has jumped from one lie to the next over the past 6 months. Never posting corrections. She and the rest of the right wing blogs have destroyed their own credibility.

200 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:45:09pm

re: #195 davesax

I can't wait to see what happens when a herpies vaccine is introduced, and people propose giving it to kids.

The right will positively explode.

The amount of energy people spend worrying about other people's consensual sexual behavior--and I really do mean left, right, straight, gay, etc. etc., is absolutely insane.

201 davesax  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:45:58pm

re: #199 Killgore Trout

Too bad if it's not true.

Kids are more sexually active than ever, and it would be good if they were being educated about it in school rather than on internet porn sites.

202 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:45:59pm

re: #177 Cannadian Club Akbar

Maybe we could not have sexual innuendo for political acts? Just maybe?

re: #19 Cato the Elder

Call this the naughties way over and above the '60's as per the mainstreaming of hard core and hard to believe core porn via DVD the internet.

203 cliffster  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:46:15pm

re: #195 davesax

I can't wait to see what happens when a herpies vaccine is introduced, and people propose giving it to kids.

The right will positively explode.

Texas Gov Perry (aka, "the right") tried to make the HPV mandatory for girls entering school.

204 albusteve  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:46:41pm

re: #197 ryannon

Bill Clinton landed on his feet after MonicaGate.

Clintons popularity paled compared to Woods'...imo

205 davesax  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:47:00pm

re: #203 cliffster

Cool. Was he successful?

206 davesax  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:47:25pm

I don't care about Woods or Letterman. Their sex lives don't interest me.

207 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:47:49pm

re: #201 davesax

Too bad if it's not true.

Kids are more sexually active than ever, and it would be good if they were being educated about it in school rather than on internet porn sites.

That said, I have to say that I've worked with some sex educators who seemed more interested in how cool they were, rather than what the kids actually wanted or needed to hear about. Left and right alike.

Oh, just send Dr. Ruth to all schools.

208 Gus  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:48:16pm

re: #199 Killgore Trout

It's probably not true. At best it's probably a distortion/half truth. I don't take this stuff seriously enough to investigate anymore. Malkin has jumped from one lie to the next over the past 6 months. Never posting corrections. She and the rest of the right wing blogs have destroyed their own credibility.

Isn't Breitbart involved in this too? And didn't he (they) overdub some of the ACORN videos?

209 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:48:22pm

re: #203 cliffster

Texas Gov Perry (aka, "the right") tried to make the HPV mandatory for girls entering school.

Hey. Something I actually like about Goodhair!

210 brookly red  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:48:38pm

re: #200 SanFranciscoZionist

The amount of energy people spend worrying about other people's consensual sexual behavior--and I really do mean left, right, straight, gay, etc. etc., is absolutely insane.

we got a saying here in Brooklyn that sex only matters to those present at the time... and divorce lawyers.

211 davesax  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:49:03pm

re: #210 brookly red

Brooklyn rocks.

I live here too. :)

212 allegro  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:49:22pm

re: #209 SanFranciscoZionist

re: #203 cliffster

Texas Gov Perry (aka, "the right") tried to make the HPV mandatory for girls entering school.

Hey. Something I actually like about Goodhair!

Oh, hell no. The fundies went nuts.

213 Bagua  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:50:19pm

re: #196 Gus 802

Yes. And one urban legend is born almost weekly. Perhaps daily. People just blindly accept some of these blog accounts. The chain emails are even worse.

Myself, I'm so disappointed. I really bought into the idea that blogs were going to reform the MSM. Come to find out this is a fantasy, just like the mythical Pumas.

I'm really disgusted by the state of the blogosphere in the US, and in the UK it is virtually absent.

Another butterfly gets stepped on.

214 Gus  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:50:29pm

Uh oh. Speaking of sex. Rod Jeton's in trouble.

Former House Speaker Charged With Felony Assault After Sexual Encounter

The former speaker of the Missouri House has been charged with a felony after what looks like a bout of sado-masochistic sex that went way too far.

Details are still unconfirmed, we should note. But a woman appears to have suggested to police that Rod Jetton, a Republican who now works as a political consultant, may have slipped something into her drink, then beat her up during sex, after she failed to use the safe word they had agreed upon as a signal to calm things down...

215 allegro  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:50:31pm

Oops, I forgot the question "Was he successful?"

216 avanti  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:50:39pm

re: #186 SanFranciscoZionist

Has he given any response to the airline's claims that he was not on the flight?

Nope. It appears he sent the e-mail to a friend or relative not expecting it to be put on the web and fact checked.

217 cliffster  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:50:43pm

re: #205 davesax

Cool. Was he successful?

I think his executive order was overridden.

218 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:50:48pm

re: #212 allegro

Oh, hell no. The fundies went nuts.

Some folks really hate that vaccine with a passion.

219 brookly red  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:50:57pm

re: #211 davesax

Brooklyn rocks.

I live here too. :)

wass good homie?

220 cliffster  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:51:50pm

re: #209 SanFranciscoZionist

Hey. Something I actually like about Goodhair!

He's actually good when he sticks to Governor stuff, like hurricane evacuations and, well, hurricane evacuations.

221 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:51:51pm

re: #216 avanti

Nope. It appears he sent the e-mail to a friend or relative not expecting it to be put on the web and fact checked.

And now that he's been exposed, he doesn't have the class to fess up, but instead feeds the notion that somehow the airlines and the press are covering up for terrorists.

What a prince.

222 SixDegrees  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:52:03pm

re: #195 davesax

I can't wait to see what happens when a herpies vaccine is introduced, and people propose giving it to kids.

The right will positively explode.

That's already played out with the recent head explosions over the vaccine for cervical cancer.

223 Gus  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:52:10pm

re: #213 Bagua

Myself, I'm so disappointed. I really bought into the idea that blogs were going to reform the MSM. Come to find out this is a fantasy, just like the mythical Pumas.

I'm really disgusted by the state of the blogosphere in the US, and in the UK it is virtually absent.

Another butterfly gets stepped on.

Yeah. As for blogs I usually trust the ones involving planes, trains, automobiles and science.

224 tradewind  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:52:16pm

re: #194 albusteve
Talk about timing... this is teh funny, and it's for real:
[Link: latimesblogs.latimes.com...]

225 davesax  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:52:25pm

re: #219 brookly red

What up, red? Been here for a long time. Before the stroller invasion.

226 Surabaya Stew  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:52:35pm

re: #181 tradewind

Sorry, but I think it has nothing to do with homophobia. If they were passing out kits to teach children unsafe heterosexual practices ( which fisting certainly is... very dangerous for children especially) there should be the same furor. And Obama is linked only by association... he probably knew nothing about it, and I am sure he wouldn't want his daughters exposed to that sort of ' education'. ** It's his appointment of people who hold radical... truly radical ideas that is disturbing.
** and at Sidwell Friends, I doubt he has to worry

Rest assured, any high school (not middle school, they make a big deal about proper ages of learning) associated with the Society of Friends would have no problems inviting in a sex-ed expert to explain and pass out information on all kids of safe-sex practices. The only reason fisting wasn't brought up when I attended 17 years ago was because it wasn't mainstream. For us, it really wasn't a big deal at all; nobody took the free condoms and dental dams and started having sex if they hadn't been doing so already.

227 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:52:51pm

re: #220 cliffster

He's actually good when he sticks to Governor stuff, like hurricane evacuations and, well, hurricane evacuations.

What I'm hearing you say is that he's pretty good with hurricane evacuations?

And apparently he has good common sense about public health, which is encouraging.

228 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:53:05pm

re: #119 The Sanity Inspector

Gateway Pundit has more.

No thank you.

229 tradewind  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:53:52pm

re: #222 SixDegrees
Funny, I've read about the supposed ' head explosions', but I haven't seen any, and everyone I know has had their daughter vaccinated... and I live in the buckle of the bible belt.

230 davesax  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:54:59pm

I work for an organization that did research into the hundred million plus hat republicans spent on "abstinance education" to see how effective that money was in changing behavior. Of course, it was a complete waste of money, but that didn't stop Bush from throwing tax payer dollars away.

You won't here Republicans fume about big government over that, though.

231 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:55:25pm

re: #229 tradewind

Funny, I've read about the supposed ' head explosions', but I haven't seen any, and everyone I know has had their daughter vaccinated... and I live in the buckle of the bible belt.

Huh. Is this kind of like how the streets of my city are supposed to be full of gay men having sex in front of elementary schools?

//Glad your neighbors are vaccinating.

232 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:55:32pm

re: #229 tradewind

Funny, I've read about the supposed ' head explosions', but I haven't seen any, and everyone I know has had their daughter vaccinated... and I live in the buckle of the bible belt.

You just don't hang out with the right kind of Christians.

233 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:56:05pm

re: #230 davesax

I work for an organization that did research into the hundred million plus hat republicans spent on "abstinance education" to see how effective that money was in changing behavior. Of course, it was a complete waste of money, but that didn't stop Bush from throwing tax payer dollars away.

You won't here Republicans fume about big government over that, though.

You won't. Some conservatives might, though!

:)

234 Gus  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:56:50pm

re: #230 davesax

I work for an organization that did research into the hundred million plus hat republicans spent on "abstinance education" to see how effective that money was in changing behavior. Of course, it was a complete waste of money, but that didn't stop Bush from throwing tax payer dollars away.

You won't here Republicans fume about big government over that, though.

Stop! Now I'm tempted to bring up a former "Abstinence Czar" that was caught doing something "involving" prostitutes. When the news came out he resigned within days.

:)

235 SixDegrees  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:57:06pm

re: #218 SanFranciscoZionist

Some folks really hate that vaccine with a passion.

Medicine is bad. Disease is God's way of telling you you're bad, so you shouldn't interfere with it in any way.

/ Yes, that was sarcasm. But it's not at all far from what some of the crazier fundamentalists believe. AIDS, to them, was clear punishment for sin.

236 tradewind  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:57:31pm

re: #226 Surabaya Stew
I don't think most parents have a problem with the sex education part of it... it's the strange sexual practices part, especially when it comes to teenagers. They could be injured seriously , and they may feel somehow that since they had been given a ' kit', they were obligated to road test it.

237 Four More Tears  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:57:52pm

re: #235 SixDegrees

Medicine is bad. Disease is God's way of telling you you're bad, so you shouldn't interfere with it in any way.

/ Yes, that was sarcasm. But it's not at all far from what some of the crazier fundamentalists believe. AIDS, to them, was clear punishment for sin.

Until they realized heteros could get it, too...

238 Basho  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:57:55pm

So much for the idiotic talking point that we've been in a cooling trend...

239 cliffster  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:58:09pm

re: #230 davesax

I work for an organization that did research into the hundred million plus hat republicans spent on "abstinance education" to see how effective that money was in changing behavior. Of course, it was a complete waste of money, but that didn't stop Bush from throwing tax payer dollars away.

You won't here Republicans fume about big government over that, though.

I'm a Republican, and that was a very bad idea and I fume over it. Anything else about which you want to make sweeping generalizations for Republicans?

240 allegro  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:58:53pm

re: #236 tradewind

Are you seriously buying this load?

241 davesax  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 2:59:16pm

re: #237 JasonA

I've don't think kids commit weird sexual acts because teachers or parents tell them to.

I propose it's for another reason: puberty.

242 brookly red  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 3:00:10pm

re: #222 SixDegrees

That's already played out with the recent head explosions over the vaccine for cervical cancer.

I work on the launch of that paticular vaccine & most of the heads that expolded were not so much about the vaccine but the attempt of it's mandate.

243 davesax  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 3:00:37pm

re: #239 cliffster

Cliffster:

The Republican party, by and large, supported it at the time.

I think it's great that you're against it, though. Too bad the people running the party don't share your point of view.

244 avanti  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 3:00:38pm

re: #236 tradewind

I don't think most parents have a problem with the sex education part of it... it's the strange sexual practices part, especially when it comes to teenagers. They could be injured seriously , and they may feel somehow that since they had been given a ' kit', they were obligated to road test it.

There is no kit, there is a book on a reading list with a age disclaimer that mentions some kinky stuff. It's not like they are giving fisting demo's to six graders. There is kinky stuff in a lot of good literature, even the Bible.

245 cliffster  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 3:00:41pm

Goodbye Healthcare Reform

246 Bagua  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 3:00:54pm

re: #223 Gus 802

Yeah. As for blogs I usually trust the ones involving planes, trains, automobiles and science.

This is the only US blog I read regularly.

247 SixDegrees  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 3:01:32pm

re: #229 tradewind

Funny, I've read about the supposed ' head explosions', but I haven't seen any, and everyone I know has had their daughter vaccinated... and I live in the buckle of the bible belt.

I probably should have been more clear; the reaction I saw was on blogs. Malkin, in particular, was ballistic over this, although she's ballistic over everything from low sodium diets to mushy green beans these days, so maybe that's not a fair example.

I think the attempt to offer vaccinations to high school students in Texas also produced some interesting reactions.

248 davesax  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 3:01:50pm

re: #244 avanti

Forget the bible, what about the Greek Myths? I learned about Zeus in middle school and how he couldn't keep it in his pants.

249 davesax  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 3:02:47pm

re: #244 avanti

Does the kit include Vasaline? No fisting kit would be complete without some sort of lubrication.

250 SixDegrees  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 3:03:42pm

re: #237 JasonA

Until they realized heteros could get it, too...

That fact hasn't really penetrated into many of the circles I was referring to. And where it has, AIDS is still viewed as God taking a huge dump all over you, once again for sinning.

251 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 3:04:22pm

re: #89 Killgore Trout

Okay after teabagging and now this, I'm about fed up with smarmy sexual innuendo and politics. (not you K. T. !) The media types will grab anything they can out of the urban dictionary (south of FCC fine territory anyway) and put it in a political snark. Now I can be pissed and balanced-That silly girl Rachael Madow and now Michelle Malkin. Yuck. And Yuck.

BTW never mind Obama or his education department or parents or even weird uncles-All the kink you want your kids to know nothing of until real adulthood is on the net, and in the texts in the cell phone. Its a tough time to be a careful or conservative parent.

252 Surabaya Stew  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 3:05:08pm

re: #236 tradewind

I don't think most parents have a problem with the sex education part of it... it's the strange sexual practices part, especially when it comes to teenagers. They could be injured seriously , and they may feel somehow that since they had been given a ' kit', they were obligated to road test it.

Injured during sex? From a liability point of view, it could happen...but me thinks the chances of getting a STD from lack of safe-sex knowledge is the greater risk worth fighting. And unless they were bleeding to death, what self-respecting kid would admit to a sex injury anyway?

253 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 3:05:10pm

re: #245 cliffster

Goodbye Healthcare Reform

How can you say that? Looks like they defeated the anti-abortion amendment... that should indicate clear sailing for abortion coverage in the final bill.

254 Surabaya Stew  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 3:06:15pm

re: #241 davesax

I've don't think kids commit weird sexual acts because teachers or parents tell them to.

I propose it's for another reason: puberty.

In spades! It's either experimentation or bragging about it for teenagers.

255 ryannon  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 3:06:26pm

re: #249 davesax

Does the kit include Vasaline? No fisting kit would be complete without some sort of lubrication.

I believe Avanti said that there was no kit.

256 allegro  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 3:06:49pm

re: #253 Walter L. Newton

that should indicate clear sailing for abortion women's health care coverage in the final bill.

Much better.

257 Bagua  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 3:07:01pm

re: #253 Walter L. Newton

How can you say that? Looks like they defeated the anti-abortion amendment... that should indicate clear sailing for abortion coverage in the final bill.

They risk losing the support of anti-abortion democrats. They need every vote.

258 Gus  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 3:07:28pm

re: #214 Gus 802

Uh oh. Speaking of sex. Rod Jeton's in trouble.

Former House Speaker Charged With Felony Assault After Sexual Encounter

OK, equal time:

Senator Hiram Monserrate (Democrat)

Monserrate was arrested on December 19, 2008 and accused of slashing Karla Giraldo in the face with a broken drinking glass during an argument in his Jackson Heights apartment...

This creep got probation and voted against the gay marriage law in New York.

259 Surabaya Stew  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 3:07:40pm

re: #244 avanti

There is no kit, there is a book on a reading list with a age disclaimer that mentions some kinky stuff. It's not like they are giving fisting demo's to six graders. There is kinky stuff in a lot of good literature, even the Bible.

You thinking of the Song of Solomon? It's quite a read...

260 SixDegrees  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 3:08:09pm

re: #248 davesax

Forget the bible, what about the Greek Myths? I learned about Zeus in middle school and how he couldn't keep it in his pants.

Well, yeah. But he disguised himself as an animal before he...oh, wait...

261 ryannon  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 3:09:10pm

re: #260 SixDegrees

Well, yeah. But he disguised himself as an animal before he...oh, wait...

I can already see where this is going to Leda.

262 Obdicut  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 3:09:45pm

re: #261 ryannon

I can already see where this is going to Leda.

Why'd you have to gold there? I Danae why.

263 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 3:10:18pm

re: #168 marjoriemoon

It absolutely does. It's the most ludicrous attack on, not just the President, but his wife, about something that is wholely untrue. They are saying, "See what happens when you let these gays run rampant? They'll teach your children about homosexual sex." Well it's worse than that. The commie President will teach your children about homosexual sex!

It's a lie and they know it's a lie.

(Need I mention that homosexual sex has been around for 1000s of years?)

Is it OK to DISTRIBUTE "fisting kits" to children?
The article says it happened. Twice.
If Jennings knew and allowed it to be repeated the following year, the man is unfit to clean toilets, let alone be an education czar.
[Link: www.massnews.com...]

264 cliffster  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 3:10:53pm

re: #253 Walter L. Newton

How can you say that? Looks like they defeated the anti-abortion amendment... that should indicate clear sailing for abortion coverage in the final bill.

It will probably not make it out of the Senate without the amendment. And it took the abortion amendment to get through the house by the skin of its teeth, will never make it back through as is.

265 Bagua  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 3:12:26pm

re: #264 cliffster

Best news I've heard in a long time. I hope you are right.

266 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 3:12:27pm

re: #264 cliffster

It will probably not make it out of the Senate without the amendment. And it took the abortion amendment to get through the house by the skin of its teeth, will never make it back through as is.

I hope not.

267 SixDegrees  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 3:13:28pm

re: #253 Walter L. Newton

How can you say that? Looks like they defeated the anti-abortion amendment... that should indicate clear sailing for abortion coverage in the final bill.

Hard to say if the bill will clear the full Senate in it's present form. The rejection of the amendment only took a simple majority; getting it approved requires 60 votes to avoid a filibuster, and quite a few Democrats have pledged to vote against it if the restrictions in the House version were weakened. It will face similar problems if and when it goes back to the House, too.

I think the wiser thing to do would be to dump abortion coverage from any government funded plan, and encourage the private sector to sell policies for that specific service only. They would be extremely cheap - the risk is low, and so is the cost of the procedure, in insurance terms - so any woman who felt she was at risk could easily afford one.

In fact, I'd like to see a lot of insurance coverage handled this way, so I could tailor my policies to fit my needs more precisely.

268 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 3:13:32pm

re: #112 Walter L. Newton

Don't stop asking. I'll hang in with you. You ask a good question. Oh and I'm still trying to get an answer to a basic question on Agw- Once you remove the human gases and emissions, what would the climate be doing without us? I'm looking for a model run on that. I have found nothing. I asked LVQ, and he said this scenario run had not been put out there. I harp on this because it would help me understand exactly what we have done.

Your expertise is software as I recall, mine is precious metallurgy. Both fields get thick. Climate science is complex and will remain beyond my ability to absorb it. I need good summaries and help to get it in detail. BTW the solutions are ikely more complex than the AGW!

269 Kruk  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 3:14:11pm

re: #89 Killgore Trout

Time to update our list of conspiracies. Today Michelle Malkin and others are claiming that Obama is teaching children the sexual technique of "fisting" (don't google if you don't know what it is). They're calling it "Fistgate".
/Not kidding.

Well, at least it's not the terrorist fisting...

I am *so* sorry.

270 allegro  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 3:15:10pm

What the heck is in "fisting ki"? Seriously? Does that even make sense?

271 allegro  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 3:15:22pm

kit even

272 Kruk  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 3:18:49pm

re: #195 davesax

I can't wait to see what happens when a herpies vaccine is introduced, and people propose giving it to kids.

The right will positively explode.

Or an HIV vaccine. I would like to*think* no-one would oppose such a vaccine on the grounds that it would encourage promiscuity, but my expectations are pretty low.

273 ryannon  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 3:18:52pm

re: #200 SanFranciscoZionist

The amount of energy people spend worrying about other people's consensual sexual behavior--and I really do mean left, right, straight, gay, etc. etc., is absolutely insane.

How true. Some folks really need to unclench their fists!

274 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 3:19:01pm

re: #270 allegro

What the heck is in "fisting ki"? Seriously? Does that even make sense?

see #263 link
latex glove, KY Jelly, instructions

275 Obdicut  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 3:19:47pm

re: #273 ryannon

How true. Some folks really need to unclench their fists!

Just don't do it at the wrong moment.

276 allegro  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 3:20:44pm

re: #274 Spare O'Lake

see #263 link
latex glove, KY Jelly, instructions

Oh, you mean practice to become an OB/GYN

277 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 3:23:17pm

re: #273 ryannon

How true. Some folks really need to unclench their fists!

Seems to be working with Ahmadinejad./

278 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 3:23:19pm

re: #275 Obdicut

Is that what went wrong in Iran? ;)

279 ryannon  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 3:24:35pm

re: #276 allegro

Oh, you mean practice to become an OB/GYN

Or even a proctologist!

"Playing doctor" just isn't the same as when I was a kid.

280 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 3:24:49pm

re: #278 Rightwingconspirator

Is that what went wrong in Iran? ;)

That creep probably never even noticed.

281 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 3:25:13pm

re: #263 Spare O'Lake

Your link is nine years old. And it comes from a site that is currently promoting creationism on their front page.

Bzzzt! Credibility - zero.

282 Kruk  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 3:26:02pm

re: #273 ryannon

How true. Some folks really need to unclench their fists!

"We'll extend an open hand if you're willing to unclench your fists..."

283 ryannon  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 3:28:33pm

re: #282 Kruk

"We'll extend an open hand if you're willing to unclench your fists..."

I'd like to, but they seem to be...stuck.

284 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 3:30:48pm

re: #281 Charles

Your link is nine years old. And it comes from a site that is currently promoting creationism on their front page.

Bzzzt! Credibility - zero.

Thanks for checking. I actually tried to go back to a link that sounded like a news service (massnews.com). My bad.

285 simoom  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 3:32:29pm

re: #263 Spare O'Lake

Is it OK to DISTRIBUTE "fisting kits" to children?
The article says it happened. Twice.
If Jennings knew and allowed it to be repeated the following year, the man is unfit to clean toilets, let alone be an education czar.
[Link: www.massnews.com...]

Ignoring that the source is the MassNews.com (which I'd put somewhere between foxnation and wnd in terms of reliability) all that article seems to be hyperventilating over is a Dental Dam instructional packet Planned Parenthood offered at the GLSEN GBLT conference held at Tufts.

I guess Dental Dams aren't nearly salacious enough so they've renamed it a 'Fisting Kit' (because that's what their own prurient minds dreamed up when imagining uses for the included materials [latex glove, KY packet and 4 frame cartoon on how to snip a dental dam out of the glove's material]).

286 ignoranceisfatal  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 3:39:27pm

re: #284 Spare O'Lake

Thanks for checking. I actually tried to go back to a link that sounded like a news service (massnews.com). My bad.

Sorry, but you really need to be more vigilant about your sources. Did you really a paragraph like this would appear on any reputable news organization's website?

Although Tufts University was able to claim ignorance about the event last year, they obviously became complicit this year when they welcomed the conference back and provided the security muscle to keep the strategy sessions and indoctrination of the children running smoothly.

287 SixDegrees  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 3:41:44pm

re: #286 ignoranceisfatal

Dogpiling is extremely unattractive behavior. Especially after someone has already apologized.

Lighten up.

288 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 3:42:52pm

re: #281 Charles

Is there a reference list of egregiously unreliable sites in order to help avoid this kind of error? I admit I just didn't take the time to check for myself, but a reference tool would be useful.

289 ignoranceisfatal  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 3:45:23pm

re: #287 SixDegrees

Lightened. Not meaning to be nasty. Sorry.

290 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 3:47:24pm

re: #287 SixDegrees

Dogpiling is extremely unattractive behavior. Especially after someone has already apologized.

Lighten up.

Thanks, but don't worry, we lizards have thick skins.
As for the piling on, what goes around usually comes around.

291 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 3:52:19pm

re: #289 ignoranceisfatal

Lightened. Not meaning to be nasty. Sorry.

Ah, forget it, life's for learning.

292 worknhard  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 4:40:54pm

Wasn't 1850 the end of the "little Ice Age"? Or there abouts.

293 worknhard  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 4:47:55pm

As far as interglacial warming periods go, doesn't it get the warmest before the cooling starts?

294 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 6:17:53pm

re: #293 worknhard

As far as interglacial warming periods go, doesn't it get the warmest before the cooling starts?

You deniers always want the last post, don't you?

295 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 6:33:51pm

re: #114 tradewind

She claimed no such thing. She stated, correctly, that Kevin Jennings, Obama's ' safe schools ' czar , had passed out ' fisting kits ' (google it) to children, which is disgusting enough, and that he was at it again.
And she's right.
Remember, we're supposed to judge POTUS by ' the people I gather around me'.
But ...way to whip up some emotion, KT.///

This is what we like to call a fucking lie. Ken Jennigs himself didn't pass anything out.

GLSEN is an organization which Ken Jennings founded. He was not personally "passing out fisting kits". And "children" is misleading. Sexually active teenagers and adults? yes. I was sexually active at 14, (which was the lower age cutoff for the workshop in question, and also a legal age of MARRIAGE in some states) and I would have loved a LGBT resource to ask questions about safe sex. It's all great for the het conservative to come down and waggle his finger at marginalized teenagers who are trying to be responsible and ask questions about their bodies and their relationships. Real easy, real obvious, and real ignorant.

There's nothing whatsoever radical about accepting the truth that teens are sexually active, and talking to them about it. The idea that GLSEN is radical for acknowledging this is ludicrous.

it just so happens that LGBT resources are always labeled "radical" and "extreme". There's many reasons I will probably never vote Republican for national office for the rest of my life, but the largest is probably their hostility to gays, gay rights, and gay issues.

I too judge the president by who he gathers around him. Ken Jennings is a great man, and his organization has saved lives.

And maybe you could stand to hang out at Atlas Shrugged more often, since those are the views you seem to be holding.

296 allbusiness  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 8:23:38pm

Sure doesn't feel like a warm decade.. got down to 11 degrees last night

297 swamprat  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 9:30:30pm

re: #296 allbusiness

2009/2008 has been cooling. Here is the link. The quote I am referring to is at 5:05 where the narrator states that we are in a cooling period due to the El Nina cycles. By the way, Charles posted this a few threads back. If 2009 is on track to be the fifth hottest year ever recorded and we are in a temperature decline due to the El Nino/Nina cycles...

I can't make heads or tails of this information. If we weren't cooling because of el Nino, would this have been the fourth hottest year ever recorded? Since we are on a down-trend due to el Nino, was the year before the fourth hottest? And when did first, second and third take place?

298 Walk Not So Softly  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 9:38:19pm

re: #296 allbusiness

Sure doesn't feel like a warm decade.. got down to 11 degrees last night

Yes, they are aware of this, that is why the new term is Climate Change...Takes the whole warming, or lack there of, mess out of the equation...it's called "homogenizing" the data. It's scientific shit man, only scientists and enlightened folk understand this.

299 ghazidor  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:11:59am

re: #297 swamprat

2009/2008 has been cooling. Here is the link. The quote I am referring to is at 5:05 where the narrator states that we are in a cooling period due to the El Nina cycles. By the way, Charles posted this a few threads back. If 2009 is on track to be the fifth hottest year ever recorded and we are in a temperature decline due to the El Nino/Nina cycles...

I can't make heads or tails of this information. If we weren't cooling because of el Nino, would this have been the fourth hottest year ever recorded? Since we are on a down-trend due to el Nino, was the year before the fourth hottest? And when did first, second and third take place?

You do seem confused, we started the year off with the tail end of a La Niña cycle that was dieing out. This did create some cooling in the southwest and other typical effects, but that was last winter. Currently there is a strong El Niño pattern in the pacific that is now increaseing temperatures.

300 Dr.Crazy  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 8:36:51am

Charles, I like and agree with your pro Israel writings, and most of your opinions, EXCEPT
I think you have missed the boad re Global Warming. I trust in the view that global warming is just a reflection of the natural cycles that the Earth goes through. To much main stream propaganda and lies. To Wit:

Andrew Bolt (Drudge Report)
Wednesday, December 09, 2009 at 06:54pm

Al Gore has studied the Climategate emails with his typically rigorous eye and dismissed them as mere piffle:

Q: How damaging to your argument was the disclosure of e-mails from the Climate Research Unit at East Anglia University?

A: To paraphrase Shakespeare, it’s sound and fury signifying nothing. I haven’t read all the e-mails, but the most recent one is more than 10 years old. These private exchanges between these scientists do not in any way cause any question about the scientific consensus.

And in case you think that was a mere slip of the tongue:

Q: There is a sense in these e-mails, though, that data was hidden and hoarded, which is the opposite of the case you make [in your book] about having an open and fair debate.

A: I think it’s been taken wildly out of context. The discussion you’re referring to was about two papers that two of these scientists felt shouldn’t be accepted as part of the IPCC report. Both of them, in fact, were included, referenced, and discussed. So an e-mail exchange more than 10 years ago including somebody’s opinion that a particular study isn’t any good is one thing, but the fact that the study ended up being included and discussed anyway is a more powerful comment on what the result of the scientific process really is.

In fact, thrice denied:

These people are examining what they can or should do to deal with the P.R. dimensions of this, but where the scientific consensus is concerned, it’s completely unchanged. What we’re seeing is a set of changes worldwide that just make this discussion over 10-year-old e-mails kind of silly.

In fact, as Watts Up With That shows, one Climategate email was from just two months ago. The most recent was sent on November 12 - just a month ago. The emails which have Tom Wigley seeming (to me) to choke on the deceit are all from this year. Phil Jones’ infamous email urging other Climategate scientists to delete emails is from last year.

How closely did Gore read these emails? Did he actually read any at all? Was he lying or just terribly mistaken? What else has he got wrong?

(Thanks to readers Sinclair and Peter.)

UPDATE

Reader Barry:

Actually the e-mail archives are named by Unix timestamp, ranging from Thu, 07 Mar 1996 14:41:07 GMT through to Thu, 12 Nov 2009 19:17:44 GMT. This is a strong indicator they are extracted from an enterprise archive, probably by the FOIA Compliance Officer and not hacked from individual’s workstations.

301 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 10:00:07am

re: #300 Dr.Crazy

Your post will lower the IQ of everyone who makes the mistake of reading it. The amount of idiocy in this one comment would power a small city for two weeks, if we had figured out how to use idiocy as an alternate energy source.

302 wrenchwench  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 10:10:32am

re: #301 Charles

Your post will lower the IQ of everyone who makes the mistake of reading it. The amount of idiocy in this one comment would power a small city for two weeks, if we had figured out how to use idiocy as an alternate energy source.

Oh, good, it's not me, then. I was trying to make sense of it. I hope I didn't lose too many IQ points...

303 AZDave  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 10:51:23am
A newly released analysis by the World Meteorological Organization shows that this decade is very likely the warmest in the modern record,

And pray tell, which data sets were used? Cooked a la CRU or real untainted data?

304 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 11:57:25am

re: #303 AZDave

And pray tell, which data sets were used? Cooked a la CRU or real untainted data?

You could try actually reading the post.

And nobody "cooked" any data. The only thing you achieve by parroting that nonsense is to demonstrate your own ignorance.


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