GOP Website Slow-Motion Trainwreck Continues

Politics • Views: 5,513

Here’s the latest episode in the ongoing trainwreck known as the GOP website. Would somebody please sit the GOP’s web designers down and give them a good lesson on how these Intraweb thingies actually work?

Pranksters Make Short Work of GOP’s URL Shortener for Conservatives.

The Republican party took down its innovative link-shortening tool Tuesday for several hours after pranksters had a field day using the tool to associate the GOP with bondage sites.

As part of its new media strategy, the Republican party launched a new site called GOP.am on Monday. It’s a URL shortener designed to make it easy for conservative web surfers to exchange links to web pages.

Pranksters almost immediately began using the service to link to controversial or ironically intended websites, such as the official site of the American Communist Party, a bondage website and a webpage advertising a sex toy in the likeness of Barack Obama. GOP.am apparently started blocking such links at some point Tuesday morning, and the GOP.am homepage was taken offline.

The website is back online late Tuesday morning PST, and the company that designed the site in collaboration with the Republican National Committee plans to add an automatic filtering system to help with the high volume of what its president calls “pornographic, lewd” or “hateful” URLs being added to its service.

Failing to foresee this kind of thing is so incredibly amateurish, it boggles the mind.

GOP Spent More Than a Million Dollars to Launch a Disastrous Website
Is Anyone Minding the Store at the GOP’s Brand New Website?
GOP.com: Web-Savvy Students Not a Must
GOP Posts Gmail Password/Login on New Site
New GOP Site: NSFW

UPDATE at 12/15/09 12:18:29 pm:

Screenshots from the latest trainwreck. (Hat tip: recusancy.)

Jump to bottom

176 comments
1 recusancy  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:16:19pm

Some screenshots from before it was taken down.

2 Summer Seale  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:18:32pm

They don't really do "technology".

Then again, they appear to think that AM Radio is still the "wave of the future".

3 Obdicut  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:18:54pm

As I said in the last thread, it's like they have no ability to think about the future at all.

Or consequences of their actions.

It's kind of funny and then I remember they're one of the major political parties in the US and then it's really damn sad.

4 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:19:48pm
The Republican party took down its innovative link-shortening tool Tuesday for several hours after pranksters had a field day using the tool to associate the GOP with bondage sites.

And I missed it. Damn!

5 davinvalkri  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:19:56pm

re: #3 Obdicut

As I said in the last thread, it's like they have no ability to think about the future at all.

Or consequences of their actions.

It's kind of funny and then I remember they're one of the major political parties in the US and then it's really damn sad.

It's still funny, even if they are one of the major political parties.
/Yes, I'm evil. No more so than the internet tricksters, though.

6 brookly red  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:20:18pm

re: #2 Summer

They don't really do "technology".

Then again, they appear to think that AM Radio is still the "wave of the future".

do not underestimate the power of radio...

7 Kragar  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:20:31pm

We apologise again for the fault in the GOP Website. Those
responsible for sacking the people who have just been sacked
have been sacked.

8 Obdicut  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:20:33pm

re: #4 Slumbering Behemoth

And I missed it. Damn!

I really highly doubt they bulletproofed it.

9 Summer Seale  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:21:01pm
The Republican party took down its innovative link-shortening tool Tuesday for several hours after pranksters had a field day using the tool to associate the GOP with bondage sites.

It's alright: I typically view GOP pages these days as NSFW anyway. =)

10 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:21:48pm

The first rule of designing a public interface to an application is to assume the worst about any user data. Failure to do so leads to stuff like this.

11 Four More Tears  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:21:57pm

Anyone try LGF? The banners don't appear :)

12 brucee  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:22:19pm

Meh.. it was most likely an improvement in terms of content, they should have kept it.

13 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:23:12pm

I think their tech people are laughing behind closed doors at how easy this is to make a buck off the gop.

14 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:23:14pm

re: #10 thedopefishlives

The first rule of designing a public interface to an application is to assume the worst about any user data. Failure to do so leads to stuff like this.

I can't believe they're paying a design firm to do this kind of incredibly crappy, insecure, amateurish work.

And they've paid over a million bucks for this garbage.

15 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:24:03pm

re: #14 Charles

I can't believe they're paying a design firm to do this kind of incredibly crappy, insecure, amateurish work.

And they've paid over a million bucks for this garbage.

A million bucks to write crappy code that would be better featured on The Daily WTF than on a public website? Where do I sign up?!

16 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:24:21pm

re: #10 thedopefishlives

The first rule of designing a public interface to an application is to assume the worst about any user data. Failure to do so leads to stuff like this.

Trusting souls, they are.

17 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:26:42pm

re: #11 JasonA

Anyone try LGF? The banners don't appear :)

It's because I have code to stop other websites from putting LGF inside a frame.

And that's another example of amateurish bad form. It's considered very rude to frame somebody's site like that.

18 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:29:09pm

My rule of thumb when writing software programs was that the application took "X" amount of work (time and/or lines of code.) You then spent "3X" doing all the data checking and idiot proofing if there was user interaction involved in the program, or data inputs that you were not already in control of.

You also then spent 50% of the work budget testing the heck out of it as well before releasing it.

(I obviously worked on home-grown stuff and not commercial releases.) /

19 Jaerik  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:30:24pm

re: #2 Summer

They don't really do "technology".

Hey now, they're apparently rocking the Congressional TwitterTubes.

One could snarkily surmise this is because they suddenly have so much free time. You don't need to try very hard when your entire agenda is "oppose whatever the other guy wants."

20 BruceKelly  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:31:12pm

re: #7 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

We apologise again for the fault in the GOP Website. Those
responsible for sacking the people who have just been sacked
have been sacked.

Ha! That one never gets old. Run Away Run Away!

21 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:32:43pm

Come on, the idea of GOP/BDSM is just too rich!

Just think of Rush as a subbie and Malkin as a icy leather domme...

Malkin in very high heeled boots and a leather bodice: Tell me why liberals are Godless you worthless slug!! CRACK! Lick my boots you little leftist sympathizer... CRACK!

Rush in nothing but a dog collar: Yes Ma'am, I am nothing but a worthless libtard Ma'am... CRACK! thank you Ma'am... CRACK! I am sorry Ma'am. Obama is the anti-Christ Ma'am.. CRACK!

I hope this didn't offend, but I am laughing out loud at the image.

22 brookly red  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:32:54pm

re: #19 Jaerik

Hey now, they're apparently rocking the Congressional TwitterTubes.

One could snarkily surmise this is because they suddenly have so much free time. You don't need to try very hard when your entire agenda is "oppose whatever the other guy wants."

/Congressional TwitterTubes? sounds kinky...

23 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:32:59pm

re: #7 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The way it's going they could bring in a bunch of llamas and probably get a better product. Except that than there would be repercussions about out-sourcing to a foreign group...

24 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:33:04pm

pwn3ge

25 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:33:20pm

re: #14 Charles

I can't believe they're paying a design firm to do this kind of incredibly crappy, insecure, amateurish work.

And they've paid over a million bucks for this garbage.

Just remember, they are the financially responsible ones!

26 sattv4u2  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:33:21pm

hmmm,,,, back when I was younger, "prankster" had an entirely different vibe. I doubt someone associating Nazism or bondage with a legit organization would have been called a "prankster"

27 Ziggy Standard  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:34:23pm

re: #21 LudwigVanQuixote

Come on, the idea of GOP/BDSM is just too rich!

Just think of Rush as a subbie and Malkin as a icy leather domme...

Malkin in very high heeled boots and a leather bodice: Tell me why liberals are Godless you worthless slug!! CRACK! Lick my boots you little leftist sympathizer... CRACK!

Rush in nothing but a dog collar: Yes Ma'am, I am nothing but a worthless libtard Ma'am... CRACK! thank you Ma'am... CRACK! I am sorry Ma'am. Obama is the anti-Christ Ma'am.. CRACK!

I hope this didn't offend, but I am laughing out loud at the image.

There is a page about Anne Coulter that I think you'd like...;-)

28 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:34:34pm

re: #21 LudwigVanQuixote

Pass the brain bleach, please.

29 jaunte  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:35:41pm

Winter music for a slow motion train wreck, from a Norwegian folk melody, The Lost Sheep.

Youtube Video
30 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:35:42pm

OT: I've been invited to appear on Bloggingheads.tv.

31 Locker  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:35:42pm

Technology has a well known liberal bias.

32 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:36:05pm

re: #27 Jimmah

There is a page about Anne Coulter that I think you'd like...;-)

I know the one... :)

33 recusancy  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:36:15pm

re: #30 Charles

OT: I've been invited to appear on Bloggingheads.tv.

Against who?

34 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:36:22pm

re: #31 Locker

Technology has a well known liberal bias.

Just like truth and science do too...

35 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:36:37pm

re: #33 recusancy

Against who?

Don't know yet.

36 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:36:46pm

re: #30 Charles

OT: I've been invited to appear on Bloggingheads.tv.

With who?

37 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:36:56pm

re: #14 Charles

I can't believe they're paying a design firm to do this kind of incredibly crappy, insecure, amateurish work.

And they've paid over a million bucks for this garbage.

They tuk rr jobs!

38 brookly red  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:37:16pm

re: #21 LudwigVanQuixote

Come on, the idea of GOP/BDSM is just too rich!

Just think of Rush as a subbie and Malkin as a icy leather domme...

Malkin in very high heeled boots and a leather bodice: Tell me why liberals are Godless you worthless slug!! CRACK! Lick my boots you little leftist sympathizer... CRACK!

Rush in nothing but a dog collar: Yes Ma'am, I am nothing but a worthless libtard Ma'am... CRACK! thank you Ma'am... CRACK! I am sorry Ma'am. Obama is the anti-Christ Ma'am.. CRACK!

I hope this didn't offend, but I am laughing out loud at the image.

Offend? no. /But it does put your posts in context...

39 Four More Tears  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:37:30pm

Whom, people, whom!!

40 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:37:39pm

re: #37 Alouette

They tuk rr jobs!

DRR TRRK RR JERRRBS!!!

/can't resist

41 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:38:08pm

I suppose it isn't the worst thing we saw today, but I am still furious at the sight of REPUBLICAN activists flying the South Carolina secession flag at today's moronic convergence in DC. Can these people really be so heedless of principle or so ignorant of history? Do they not know that secession was a direct response to the election of the first Republican president or that the Republican Party was created in the first place to oppose the expansion of slavery?
Shame! Shame!

42 BruceKelly  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:38:08pm

re: #37 Alouette

They tuk rr jobs!

There goes another keyboard.

43 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:38:10pm

re: #38 brookly red

Offend? no. /But it does put your posts in context...

Just be sure it's the right context ;)

44 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:39:31pm

re: #35 Charles

Don't know yet.

I just looked up their contributors, and they have a lot more than I imagined. Could be anyone.

45 sattv4u2  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:39:32pm

re: #38 brookly red

Offend? no. /But it does put your posts in context...

someone owes me a monitor!

(NOTE TO SELF ,,,,no beverages while reading!)

46 brookly red  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:40:07pm

re: #43 LudwigVanQuixote

Just be sure it's the right context ;)

wait... I thought it was the left context? :)

47 Girth  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:40:25pm

re: #30 Charles

OT: I've been invited to appear on Bloggingheads.tv.

Excellent. I love a good episode of Bloggingheads.

48 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:40:59pm

re: #26 sattv4u2

hmmm,,, back when I was younger, "prankster" had an entirely different vibe. I doubt someone associating Nazism or bondage with a legit organization would have been called a "prankster"

"Vandal" might be more like it, except that they were (mis)using a tool on the site, not damaging the site itself.

49 recusancy  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:41:01pm

re: #44 Sharmuta

I just looked up their contributors, and they have a lot more than I imagined. Could be anyone.

It's a pretty good video blog site. I like Robert Wright alot (he's the founder). But it has quite a wide array of opinion and topics. It's not partisan.

50 Jeff In Ohio  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:41:07pm

Would do the kids say? ROTFL!

51 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:41:52pm

re: #47 Girth

Excellent. I love a good episode of Bloggingheads.

Freetoken linked a really good one a few weeks ago. It's a really cool concept.

52 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:41:57pm

re: #21 LudwigVanQuixote

Come on, the idea of GOP/BDSM is just too rich!

Just think of Rush as a subbie and Malkin as a icy leather domme...

Malkin in very high heeled boots and a leather bodice: Tell me why liberals are Godless you worthless slug!! CRACK! Lick my boots you little leftist sympathizer... CRACK!

Rush in nothing but a dog collar: Yes Ma'am, I am nothing but a worthless libtard Ma'am... CRACK! thank you Ma'am... CRACK! I am sorry Ma'am. Obama is the anti-Christ Ma'am.. CRACK!

I hope this didn't offend, but I am laughing out loud at the image.

Well, PJ O'Rourke did say that no one has ever fantasized about being tied to a bed and ravished by someone dressed up as a liberal...

53 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:42:22pm

re: #30 Charles

OT: I've been invited to appear on Bloggingheads.tv.

Will you accept? Any word yet on a time slot?

54 Ziggy Standard  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:42:49pm

re: #32 LudwigVanQuixote

I know the one... :)

Awesome bit of writing, that is :)

55 sattv4u2  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:42:50pm

re: #48 The Sanity Inspector

"Vandal" might be more like it, except that they were (mis)using a tool on the site, not damaging the site itself.

I understand that, and I was actually going to post how the hackers of the "Climategate" e-mails were called the culprits while in this instance the GOP is at fault, but I understand the difference bewteen illegally gaining entry and walking through anj open door.

Still, calling them "pranksters" is a tad light, imho

56 Four More Tears  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:43:05pm

re: #52 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, PJ O'Rourke did say that no one has ever fantasized about being tied to a bed and ravished by someone dressed up as a liberal...

My, I mean these, fantasies often involve a bit of fascism...

57 lostlakehiker  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:43:33pm

re: #10 thedopefishlives

The first rule of designing a public interface to an application is to assume the worst about any user data. Failure to do so leads to stuff like this.

Like I was saying in another thread, any system you design will be inspected for ways to game it, and if there are any, they'll be exploited. It's stupid to expect any different.

58 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:43:35pm

OT: Oral Roberts has died at 91, I guess Richard will not be able to justify his stupid statements by saying that his father supports them anymore.

59 brookly red  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:43:39pm

re: #52 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, PJ O'Rourke did say that no one has ever fantasized about being tied to a bed and ravished by someone dressed up as a liberal...

/nothing like a wet Che t-shirt IMO

60 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:44:03pm

re: #41 Shiplord Kirel

I suppose it isn't the worst thing we saw today, but I am still furious at the sight of REPUBLICAN activists flying the South Carolina secession flag at today's moronic convergence in DC. Can these people really be so heedless of principle or so ignorant of history? Do they not know that secession was a direct response to the election of the first Republican president or that the Republican Party was created in the first place to oppose the expansion of slavery?
Shame! Shame!

I am waiting for these folks to turn on Lincoln. That's when the process of going totally screaming yellow bonkers will have been completed.

61 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:44:03pm

re: #49 recusancy

It's a pretty good video blog site. I like Robert Wright alot (he's the founder). But it has quite a wide array of opinion and topics. It's not partisan.

6 pages of contributors. I've watched a couple interviews from them, and I've highly enjoyed them. This is a great opportunity for Charles and LGF.

62 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:44:34pm

re: #57 lostlakehiker

Like I was saying in another thread, any system you design will be inspected for ways to game it, and if there are any, they'll be exploited. It's stupid to expect any different.

I work in software test, so it's my job to come up with scenarios to break interfaces. I'm pretty good at it, but one of my former co-workers was a guy who hung out at FARK a lot. You can't even imagine the horrors he would wreak upon our software.

63 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:44:53pm

re: #56 JasonA

My, I mean these, fantasies often involve a bit of fascism...

I think that was his point...

64 Four More Tears  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:44:58pm

re: #41 Shiplord Kirel

I suppose it isn't the worst thing we saw today, but I am still furious at the sight of REPUBLICAN activists flying the South Carolina secession flag at today's moronic convergence in DC. Can these people really be so heedless of principle or so ignorant of history? Do they not know that secession was a direct response to the election of the first Republican president or that the Republican Party was created in the first place to oppose the expansion of slavery?
Shame! Shame!

Lincoln wouldn't recognize this party.

65 Jack Burton  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:45:16pm

re: #60 SanFranciscoZionist

I am waiting for these folks to turn on Lincoln. That's when the process of going totally screaming yellow bonkers will have been completed.

The Tea Party people already are drinking that bit of kook Libertarian kool-aid. I've heard Luap Nor refer to Lincoln as a war criminal among other things.

66 Baier  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:45:40pm

I would have loved to have seen the slide show where the GOP was introduced to the internet. I love the whirring sound slide projectors make.

67 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:46:03pm

re: #52 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, PJ O'Rourke did say that no one has ever fantasized about being tied to a bed and ravished by someone dressed up as a liberal...

I dunno, scary eco-terrorist anarchist abduction scene, that could work. You just have to go FAR left 8-)

68 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:46:06pm

re: #58 ausador

Linky;
[Link: www.1010wins.com...]

69 Four More Tears  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:46:19pm

I need to disappear for a bit. Enjoy your afternoon, Lizardfolk.

Youtube Video
70 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:46:28pm

re: #64 JasonA

Lincoln wouldn't recognize this party.

I'm having a sudden image of Lincoln's ghost watching Michelle Bachmann in action. The wide, fascinated, horrified eyes...

71 BruceKelly  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:46:30pm

re: #64 JasonA

Lincoln wouldn't recognize this party.

Nor JFK his.

72 Ziggy Standard  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:46:55pm

Dinner time here- see you all later!

73 brookly red  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:47:17pm

re: #64 JasonA

Lincoln wouldn't recognize this party.

To be fair, Lincoln wouldn't recognize this country.

74 sattv4u2  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:47:21pm

re: #71 BruceKelly

Nor JFK his.

Nice return of serve! Well played

75 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:47:26pm

re: #21 LudwigVanQuixote

You made me throw up in my mouth.

76 Jeff In Ohio  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:47:28pm

re: #52 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, PJ O'Rourke did say that no one has ever fantasized about being tied to a bed and ravished by someone dressed up as a liberal...

I have a feeling he's never had the pleasure.

77 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:47:33pm

re: #65 ArchangelMichael

The Tea Party people already are drinking that bit of kook Libertarian kool-aid. I've heard Luap Nor refer to Lincoln as a war criminal among other things.

Cripes. Maybe I'll do a website. The Presidents of the United States, And What Was Wrong With Them, By The Insane Right

78 RogueOne  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:47:56pm

re: #68 lawhawk

Linky;
[Link: www.1010wins.com...]

I thought he was already dead.

79 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:48:23pm

re: #55 sattv4u2

I understand that, and I was actually going to post how the hackers of the "Climategate" e-mails were called the culprits while in this instance the GOP is at fault, but I understand the difference bewteen illegally gaining entry and walking through anj open door.

Still, calling them "pranksters" is a tad light, imho

The pranksters were using the GOP website exactly as it was designed to be used. Nobody broke in, nobody did anything illegal, and yes, the GOP is 100% to blame for this backfiring in their faces.

80 brookly red  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:48:28pm

re: #71 BruceKelly

Nor JFK his.

/ but would he blockade it?

81 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:48:44pm

And it appears 900 foot Jesus has just welcomed Oral Roberts into heaven.

Anyone remember the old Bloom County comics about Oral Bill?

82 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:48:49pm

re: #52 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, PJ O'Rourke did say that no one has ever fantasized about being tied to a bed and ravished by someone dressed up as a liberal...

I don't know about that - Salma Hayek is pretty liberal.

83 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:49:09pm

re: #52 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, PJ O'Rourke did say that no one has ever fantasized about being tied to a bed and ravished by someone dressed up as a liberal...

OK... here is the Liberal version...

mmmm no.

Yeah after four attempts I just couldn't picture it. The image of Pelosi in a tight leather bodice and high heels caused my brain to seize.

But I do know that Beck would be the "gimp." I'll give you something to cry about!...

84 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:49:24pm

OK -- the bloggingheads people say they're thinking of pairing me with Conn Carroll. I'm not very familiar with him; I'll have to do some deep research into his past Communist associations. Heh.

85 sattv4u2  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:49:38pm

re: #79 Charles

The pranksters were using the GOP website exactly as it was designed to be used. Nobody broke in, nobody did anything illegal, and yes, the GOP is 100% to blame for this backfiring in their faces.

I clearly stated that they "walked through an open door" and did nothing illegal. I'm just stating that for my taste, prankster is a tad light for what they did once inside

86 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:49:44pm

re: #75 Alouette

You made me throw up in my mouth.

I am sorry about that...

87 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:50:08pm

I found that bloggingheads interview from freetoken:

Moses in America

Really fascinating, and I agree with freetoken completely that the entire interview is worth a listen.

88 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:50:46pm

re: #79 Charles

That happened to the GOP.am site is what some of my friends would probably call "griefing". I'd like to think channers were involved, but the links aren't brutal enough.

89 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:51:12pm

re: #67 WindUpBird

I dunno, scary eco-terrorist anarchist abduction scene, that could work. You just have to go FAR left 8-)

Well, crazy left, I suppose you could get something out of. I think O'
Rourke was being deliberate when he said 'liberal'.

90 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:52:14pm

re: #84 Charles

OK -- the bloggingheads people say they're thinking of pairing me with Conn Carroll. I'm not very familiar with him; I'll have to do some deep research into his past Communist associations. Heh.

Conn Carroll

Fellow, The Heritage Foundation

Hmm...

91 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:52:51pm

re: #82 Mad Al-Jaffee

I don't know about that - Salma Hayek is pretty liberal.

OK, that I will give you...but do you really want her to be dressed like a liberal? Or dressed at all?

92 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:53:10pm

re: #71 BruceKelly

Nor JFK his.

FDR would, though. Same issues, same antagonists, same arguments.

93 Jaerik  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:53:11pm

re: #41 Shiplord Kirel

Do they not know that secession was a direct response to the election...

Just stop there, dude.

When you teach kids history from the perspective of American exceptionalism, you turn history into a comic book.

You can't blame them, because that's how it's taught in schools. Most don't even have world history as anything more than an elective these days, and some don't even have that. Many see any attempt to teach history as an actual complicated, constantly changing competition of ideologies and self-interests as "revisionism" and reject it outright. If it isn't "America! Fuck yeah!" then it's not worthy of consideration.

The same mindset can also be turned inwards, and used to isolate a party's current ideology from the messiness of history.

94 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:53:20pm

re: #89 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, crazy left, I suppose you could get something out of. I think O'
Rourke was being deliberate when he said 'liberal'.

It's true, tweed and Subaru Outbacks aren't really sexy. :D I'm also imagining evil code pink puppets that turn on their masters in some sort of interesting way, but I think I'm off the reservation at that point!

95 sattv4u2  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:53:40pm

re: #90 Sharmuta

Conn Carroll

Fellow, The Heritage Foundation

Hmm...

Meat of the interview starts about 50 seconds in

Youtube Video
96 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:54:05pm

re: #91 SanFranciscoZionist

OK, that I will give you...but do you really want her to be dressed like a liberal? Or dressed at all?

Yeah, ummm, I plead the Fifth...

97 sattv4u2  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:54:14pm

BBL

98 RogueOne  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:54:20pm

re: #88 WindUpBird

That happened to the GOP.am site is what some of my friends would probably call "griefing". I'd like to think channers were involved, but the links aren't brutal enough.

was the kids at balloon juice.

99 recusancy  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:54:28pm

re: #84 Charles

OK -- the bloggingheads people say they're thinking of pairing me with Conn Carroll. I'm not very familiar with him; I'll have to do some deep research into his past Communist associations. Heh.

He's a died in the wool righty. He usually is getting schooled by Bill Scher on bloggingheads. I guess Bob expects you to take the side of the left in your discussion.

100 brookly red  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:54:36pm

re: #91 SanFranciscoZionist

OK, that I will give you...but do you really want her to be dressed like a liberal? Or dressed at all?

/how exactly does one dress like a liberal? I mean they look so, err you know, normal.

101 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:54:49pm

re: #98 RogueOne

was the kids at balloon juice.

That explains why it stayed so civilized!

102 Kragar  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:55:32pm

Found a cool movie site for an old film buffs out there

www.classiccinemaonline.com

103 drogheda  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:55:47pm

Calling them pranksters is indeed a tad light. "Merry pranksters" would be more appropriate.

104 Kragar  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:56:22pm

re: #103 drogheda

Calling them pranksters is indeed a tad light. "Merry pranksters" would be more appropriate.

Rapscallions.

105 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:56:32pm

re: #91 SanFranciscoZionist

OK, that I will give you...but do you really want her to be dressed like a liberal? Or dressed at all?

The latter, or just like she normally dresses.

106 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:56:48pm

Source Watch: Heritage Foundation

107 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:57:52pm

re: #77 SanFranciscoZionist

Cripes. Maybe I'll do a website. The Presidents of the United States, And What Was Wrong With Them, By The Insane Right

I have heard some gripes lately about Lincoln because he violated the secession states rights to leave the union peacefully. Apparently the argument is something along the lines of that with two countries neither government would be as big or as powerful now. Typical libertarian fantasy thinking, as if somehow we wouldn't have gone to war eventually without Lincoln's influence. There is no way the rural slave owning south and industrialized north would have co-existed peacefully for all these years.

108 Locker  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:59:00pm

R.I.P. Oral Roberts.

109 drcordell  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:59:14pm

re: #107 ausador

I have heard some gripes lately about Lincoln because he violated the secession states rights to leave the union peacefully. Apparently the argument is something along the lines of that with two countries neither government would be as big or as powerful now. Typical libertarian fantasy thinking, as if somehow we wouldn't have gone to war eventually without Lincoln's influence. There is no way the rural slave owning south and industrialized north would have co-existed peacefully for all these years.

Lincoln was also "teh gay," not that any teabaggers would know that.

110 RogueOne  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 12:59:31pm

OT: but if you really want something to make yourself sick try this, kids 12 & 13 yrs old getting convicted and placed on the sex offender registry:

Utah Supreme Court justices acknowledged Tuesday that they were struggling to wrap their minds around the concept that a 13-year-old girl could be both an offender and a victim for the same act - in this case, having consensual sex with her 12-year-old boyfriend.

The Ogden, Utah, girl was put in this odd position because she was found guilty of violating a state law that prohibits sex with someone under age 14. She also was the victim in the case against her boyfriend, who was found guilty of the same violation by engaging in sexual activity with her.

Our society has lost its damned mind.

[Link: www.denverpost.com...]

111 recusancy  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:00:08pm

re: #110 RogueOne

OT: but if you really want something to make yourself sick try this, kids 12 & 13 yrs old getting convicted and placed on the sex offender registry:

Our society has lost its damned mind.

[Link: www.denverpost.com...]

To be fair, that's Utah.

112 Bob Dillon  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:01:36pm

re: #108 Locker

R.I.P. Oral Roberts.

A real innovator and marketing genius.

113 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:01:46pm

re: #100 brookly red

/how exactly does one dress like a liberal? I mean they look so, err you know, normal.

O'Rourke was complaining about conservatives being called fascists by the opposition. His counter was that at least facism has that high boots and leather sexy quality to it, while no one fantasizes about being ravished by a liberal. I think the point was...oh never mind. It was a one-laugh line. If you start examining it, it sort of dies...

114 RogueOne  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:02:22pm

re: #111 recusancy

To be fair, that's Utah.

Fair enough, how about michigan:

[Link: www.annarbor.com...]

Young Pittsfield Township man struggles with sex offender label

According to a police report, a state trooper pulled up to Freeman's house across the street from Ann Arbor's Carpenter Elementary School, where children were on the playground at 7:30 p.m.

Freeman told the trooper Pittsfield Township police told him “it shouldn’t be a problem” to live near the school. He had registered with Pittsfield police 27 days earlier using his family's Dalton Avenue address.

Freeman told the trooper he was on the Michigan Sex Offender Registry because he had “sex with his 15-year-old girlfriend when he was 17.” He also said his girlfriend’s mother got “upset with him and pressed charges.”

115 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:02:40pm

re: #109 drcordell

Lincoln was also "teh gay," not that any teabaggers would know that.

I'm sure they'll find out now that they dislike him.

116 BruceKelly  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:02:41pm

re: #100 brookly red

how exactly does one dress like a liberal? I mean they look so, err you know, normal.

Things were so much simpler in the 60s.

117 drcordell  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:03:08pm

re: #111 recusancy

To be fair, that's Utah.

Yeah, you can't even buy a beer with alcohol volume above 3.2% in Utah. I would expect their tolerance of 13-year-olds sexing each other isn't too high either.

118 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:03:20pm

re: #110 RogueOne

OT: but if you really want something to make yourself sick try this, kids 12 & 13 yrs old getting convicted and placed on the sex offender registry:


Our society has lost its damned mind.

[Link: www.denverpost.com...]

Good God.

119 brookly red  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:03:35pm

re: #113 SanFranciscoZionist

O'Rourke was complaining about conservatives being called fascists by the opposition. His counter was that at least facism has that high boots and leather sexy quality to it, while no one fantasizes about being ravished by a liberal. I think the point was...oh never mind. It was a one-laugh line. If you start examining it, it sort of dies...

never mind, I'll ask Ludwig...

120 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:04:22pm

re: #41 Shiplord Kirel

Psssshaw.

Lincoln was nuttin' but a pinko commie liberal...............


/

121 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:05:16pm

re: #111 recusancy

To be fair, that's Utah.

Even so, couldn't they put the time and energy spent prosecuting two children for having consensual sex into, maybe, counseling for the kids? Or more money to track down and try the FLDS dudes who are forcibly 'marrying' little girls themselves at a much more sinister age?

122 recusancy  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:05:25pm

re: #114 RogueOne

Yeah.. Pretty stupid laws if you ask me. I could have been on the sexual predator list if I got caught with my 16 year old girlfriend when I was 18.

Kids are frisky. Laws should understand that. Not ruin people's lives.

123 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:05:58pm

re: #113 SanFranciscoZionist

O'Rourke related upding.

He wrote the forward to a book by a mate of mine.

124 Locker  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:06:13pm

re: #109 drcordell

Lincoln was also "teh gay," not that any teabaggers would know that.

Yea, with my wife's great, great, great (times something) uncle Joshua Speed. Those are the speculations and rumors anyway.

125 freetoken  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:06:29pm

re: #84 Charles

Conn is a good talker... my impression is that he is not a reflexive right-winger but that he also feels, at times, as if he has to defend them. Given his employer (Heritage) perhaps he feels the need to carry the party line?

126 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:06:44pm

re: #122 recusancy

Yeah.. Pretty stupid laws if you ask me. I could have been on the sexual predator list if I got caught with my 16 year old girlfriend when I was 18.

Kids are frisky. Laws should understand that. Not ruin people's lives.

California has a very detailed and complicated set of laws about age of consent, which actually doesn't work out too badly--except for the part about oral sex.

127 brookly red  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:07:34pm

re: #122 recusancy

Yeah.. Pretty stupid laws if you ask me. I could have been on the sexual predator list if I got caught with my 16 year old girlfriend when I was 18.

Kids are frisky. Laws should understand that. Not ruin people's lives.

/awww, come on laws understand that just fine... it just depends on who your parents are.

128 RogueOne  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:08:40pm

re: #122 recusancy

Yeah.. Pretty stupid laws if you ask me. I could have been on the sexual predator list if I got caught with my 16 year old girlfriend when I was 18.

Kids are frisky. Laws should understand that. Not ruin people's lives.

Yep. Something I missed in the second story:

Twelve days after his 17th birthday, Scott filed a complaint with Pittsfield police, records show, requesting Freeman be criminally charged. ...

If I'm reading that right, 12 days earlier it would have been ok. So because he was over the age by less than 2 weeks he'll forever be a sex offender.

129 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:10:06pm

how did I miss this!?!?!

lulz factory

130 [deleted]  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:12:45pm
131 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:15:33pm

re: #128 RogueOne

If I'm reading that right, 12 days earlier it would have been ok. So because he was over the age by less than 2 weeks he'll forever be a sex offender.

I understand the desire to keep a close eye on sex offenders, but the emotion around sex crimes just makes it the worse when people who clearly aren't dangerous or evil get put on the list. I read an article a while back that talked about men who ended up being registered because they'd been convicted decades ago of consensual homosexual acts--things that aren't illegal any longer.

It also worries me for selfish reasons--how am I supposed to make use of a registry, if the guy up the street may be a pedophile, or may be an ex-teenager who got caught in a statutory rape technicality, or may be a veteran who got caught fooling around with a friend in the Navy the year my mom was born? (One of the examples they gave...a really sweet old guy who was mad as hell...)

132 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:16:56pm

re: #121 SanFranciscoZionist

Even so, couldn't they put the time and energy spent prosecuting two children for having consensual sex into, maybe, counseling for the kids? Or more money to track down and try the FLDS dudes who are forcibly 'marrying' little girls themselves at a much more sinister age?

Prosecutors having massive amounts of political power sure is fun...

133 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:17:55pm

re: #110 RogueOne

OT: but if you really want something to make yourself sick try this, kids 12 & 13 yrs old getting convicted and placed on the sex offender registry:

Our society has lost its damned mind.

[Link: www.denverpost.com...]

Because you know ruining that girls entire life now is a sane and measured response.

No one in their right minds is going to argue that young teens should have sex with each other - particularly this young. However, this was clearly consensual and between the two kids. Of course, that does not make it ok, but OF COURSE that does not make them the same as some 40 year old who seduced a 12 year old. These are two impulsive kids with hyperactive legalisms making it set to ruin their lives. It is seriously unlikely that these kids will turn out to be pedophiles or a threat to anyone.

What is wrong with people?

This is utter insanity. It is also a fabulous example of why populist get tough on crime mandatory sentencing stuff ought not happen. There must be room for basic sense. Common sense.

The hypocrisy of it also gets to me. I don't know about the other posters here, but I would be willing to bet that the vast majority of Americans lost their virginity when they were teens with another teenager. The majority snuck off and "made out" as younger teens. That is pretty much the biology of the situation. That how it generally happens. I know that there are those who hold out, but, if you follow the idea of legal thinking like this to it's logical consequences, I would bet that something like 50% or more of America would need to be placed on the registry.

134 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:18:08pm

re: #132 WindUpBird

Prosecutors having massive amounts of political power sure is fun...

A liberal is a conservative who's just been arrested...

135 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:19:09pm

re: #128 RogueOne

If I'm reading that right, 12 days earlier it would have been ok. So because he was over the age by less than 2 weeks he'll forever be a sex offender.

And if they were 15 and 16 they would be fine too. This is just insanity.

136 RogueOne  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:19:22pm

re: #131 SanFranciscoZionist

I read an article a while back that talked about men who ended up being registered because they'd been convicted decades ago of consensual homosexual acts--things that aren't illegal any longer.

I read something similar not that long ago. Something to do with a couple thousand tickets/arrests in NYC for homosexual behavior that is no longer illegal. I'll try to find it.

137 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:19:36pm

re: #134 Aceofwhat?

A liberal is a conservative who's just been arrested...

"Give me my phone call, I want to talk to my lawyer!"

"You mean, your TRIIIIAL lawyer?"

138 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:21:57pm

re: #133 LudwigVanQuixote

Because you know ruining that girls entire life now is a sane and measured response.

No one in their right minds is going to argue that young teens should have sex with each other - particularly this young. However, this was clearly consensual and between the two kids. Of course, that does not make it ok, but OF COURSE that does not make them the same as some 40 year old who seduced a 12 year old. These are two impulsive kids with hyperactive legalisms making it set to ruin their lives. It is seriously unlikely that these kids will turn out to be pedophiles or a threat to anyone.

What is wrong with people?

This is utter insanity. It is also a fabulous example of why populist get tough on crime mandatory sentencing stuff ought not happen. There must be room for basic sense. Common sense.

The hypocrisy of it also gets to me. I don't know about the other posters here, but I would be willing to bet that the vast majority of Americans lost their virginity when they were teens with another teenager. The majority snuck off and "made out" as younger teens. That is pretty much the biology of the situation. That how it generally happens. I know that there are those who hold out, but, if you follow the idea of legal thinking like this to it's logical consequences, I would bet that something like 50% or more of America would need to be placed on the registry.

Probably more!

Kids that age shouldn't be having sex--but it's entirely normal for them to want to. It's certainly not criminal. The adults in their lives need to talk to them about their choices, discuss morality and safety, and if they decide to, keep them from having an opportunity to continue the physical relationship. What the heck are we doing when we tell kids that having sex makes them criminals?

139 Gus  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:22:11pm

re: #110 RogueOne

OT: but if you really want something to make yourself sick try this, kids 12 & 13 yrs old getting convicted and placed on the sex offender registry:

Our society has lost its damned mind.

[Link: www.denverpost.com...]

Modern day puritans.

140 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:22:40pm

re: #138 SanFranciscoZionist

Probably more!

Kids that age shouldn't be having sex--but it's entirely normal for them to want to. It's certainly not criminal. The adults in their lives need to talk to them about their choices, discuss morality and safety, and if they decide to, keep them from having an opportunity to continue the physical relationship. What the heck are we doing when we tell kids that having sex makes them criminals?

We are being the religious right.

141 Gus  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:23:21pm

re: #138 SanFranciscoZionist

Probably more!

Kids that age shouldn't be having sex--but it's entirely normal for them to want to. It's certainly not criminal. The adults in their lives need to talk to them about their choices, discuss morality and safety, and if they decide to, keep them from having an opportunity to continue the physical relationship. What the heck are we doing when we tell kids that having sex makes them criminals?

Practicing theocracy.

142 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:24:53pm

re: #139 Gus 802

Modern day puritans.

I don't think the Puritans got all that upset about premarital sex, really.

143 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:24:54pm

re: #137 WindUpBird

"Give me my phone call, I want to talk to my lawyer!"

"You mean, your TRIIIAL lawyer?"

How can you speak Mr Anderson, when you have no mouth?

144 Gus  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:26:06pm

re: #142 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't think the Puritans got all that upset about premarital sex, really.

Probably not. Modern day versions however would or do.

145 drcordell  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:26:56pm

re: #142 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't think the Puritans got all that upset about premarital sex, really.

I'd wager that most of the original puritan women were married and started cranking out babies by 15.

146 RogueOne  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:28:27pm

re: #141 Gus 802

Practicing theocracy.

except the biggest proponents of this kinda crap are the soccer mom/dad crowd pushing this kinda crap to "save our children". It's all fun and games until it's their kid that acts like a normal teen and gets themselves labelled with a big "A" on their heads.

147 RogueOne  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:29:02pm

re: #146 RogueOne

I used "this kinda crap" twice in one sentence.....WIN!

148 drcordell  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:30:22pm

re: #146 RogueOne

except the biggest proponents of this kinda crap are the soccer mom/dad crowd pushing this kinda crap to "save our children". It's all fun and games until it's their kid that acts like a normal teen and gets themselves labelled with a big "A" on their heads.

Uhhhh, no?

149 RogueOne  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:32:13pm

re: #133 LudwigVanQuixote

Because you know ruining that girls entire life now is a sane and measured response.

Exactly, here is one more story on those lines about a young girl who ends up killing herself thanks to laws designed to keep her safe:

[Link: reason.com...]

Yet more evidence for teens that "sexting" really can ruin your life. Not because of the dirty pictures, but because of the horrible things adults will do to you when they discover them. For your own good, of course.

Today's heartbreaking example is Hope Witsell, a 13-year-old Florida girl driven to suicide after she was caught sending a topless cell phone photo of herself to a crush. When her school administrators learned of the photo, they suspended her, even though her sending it had nothing to do with the school. Witsell's classmates harassed her, calling her "whore" and "slut" in the hallways, apparently with little notice, interest, or intervention from school officials. Witsell's parents also administered some tough love, grounding her for the summer and banishing her from the Internet and her cell phone. The poor kid showed her boobs to a boy, and she was banished from her school, her friends, and the outside world.

150 Gus  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:33:28pm

re: #146 RogueOne

except the biggest proponents of this kinda crap are the soccer mom/dad crowd pushing this kinda crap to "save our children". It's all fun and games until it's their kid that acts like a normal teen and gets themselves labelled with a big "A" on their heads.

I seriously doubt that soccer moms and soccer dads want their children being listed as sex offenders in this manner. I would venture to guess that they are probably ignorant of this law. Of course this requires looking for the origins of this law to make an accurate assessment.

151 drcordell  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:34:15pm

re: #150 Gus 802

I seriously doubt that soccer moms and soccer dads want their children being listed as sex offenders in this manner. I would venture to guess that they are probably ignorant of this law. Of course this requires looking for the origins of this law to make an accurate assessment.

Yeah, kneejerk "it's teh libruls" comments annoy the shit out of me.

152 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:35:22pm

re: #146 RogueOne

except the biggest proponents of this kinda crap are the soccer mom/dad crowd pushing this kinda crap to "save our children". It's all fun and games until it's their kid that acts like a normal teen and gets themselves labelled with a big "A" on their heads.

And doubt soccer mom and soccer dad forget how old they were the first time they made out too.

I am all for using the sex offender registry - as something that police have, not the public, for real offenders. For certain, the police should keep their eyes on rapists and pedophiles once they are released from prison.

It is not the job though of the mob to go around with pitchforks and whispers even in those cases. It is certainly not the job to do that in the case of obviously non-criminal behavior.

It is certainly not the job of society to make someone into a permanent pariah in an obviously non-criminal case.

153 Gus  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:36:25pm

re: #151 drcordell

Yeah, kneejerk "it's teh libruls" comments annoy the shit out of me.

I'm wondering if this is not the result of an activist "conservative" judge and an activist "conservative" assistant attorney general.

154 RogueOne  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:37:03pm

re: #148 drcordell

uhh, yeah. re: #151 drcordell

No one said liberals, nice job of projection. the current wave of legislation designed to keep kids from smoking, drinking, sex, texting, etc., etc, etc... has nothing to do with religion. It's all about "the children".

155 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:38:22pm

re: #149 RogueOne

Yeah that is sick. A proper response would be for the parents to have a loving and serious talk with her about why that might not be wise, and to tell the school to go to hell.

156 RogueOne  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:39:26pm

re: #153 Gus 802

I'm wondering if this is not the result of an activist "conservative" judge and an activist "conservative" assistant attorney general.

wow, sorry gus but that's about dumb. No one gets elected, right/left or dem/repub, by coming out in favor of common sense laws regarding "sex offenses". This isn't a right/left or relgious/atheist issue.

157 drcordell  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:40:01pm

re: #153 Gus 802

I'm wondering if this is not the result of an activist "conservative" judge and an activist "conservative" assistant attorney general.

I hate to complain about kneejerk stereotyping, and then potentially open myself to the same criticism, but that being said... this is Utah we are talking about here. Almost all of their extreme laws that rigidly enforce social conservatism stem from the Mormon community's influence. I would imagine we are witnessing that same influence at work in this case.

158 drcordell  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:40:48pm

re: #156 RogueOne

wow, sorry gus but that's about dumb. No one gets elected, right/left or dem/repub, by coming out in favor of common sense laws regarding "sex offenses". This isn't a right/left or relgious/atheist issue.

Considering Utah is effectively a Mormon theocracy... I'd have to disagree with you there.

159 RogueOne  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:41:40pm

re: #157 drcordell

you guys are going to make me beat my head against my desk. The one story was about a kid in michigan and the girl who killed herself lived in florida.

160 Irenicum  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:43:38pm

re: #143 oaktree

Nice Matrix reference.

161 Gus  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:45:20pm

re: #156 RogueOne

wow, sorry gus but that's about dumb. No one gets elected, right/left or dem/repub, by coming out in favor of common sense laws regarding "sex offenses". This isn't a right/left or relgious/atheist issue.

No true Scotsman.

162 RogueOne  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:45:37pm

bye folks, have a good nite all.

163 Gus  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:49:22pm

re: #157 drcordell

I hate to complain about kneejerk stereotyping, and then potentially open myself to the same criticism, but that being said... this is Utah we are talking about here. Almost all of their extreme laws that rigidly enforce social conservatism stem from the Mormon community's influence. I would imagine we are witnessing that same influence at work in this case.

Here's the Utah state court justices.

[Link: www.utcourts.gov...]

Most are affiliated with Brigham Young University. Michael J. Wilkins is at the very end.

164 RogueOne  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:50:20pm

One last thing, if you want to trace this back the old schoolers like myself would start with the PMRC. Tipper Gore is the reason Bush got my vote in 2000.

Youtube Video
165 drcordell  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:51:16pm

re: #159 RogueOne

you guys are going to make me beat my head against my desk. The one story was about a kid in michigan and the girl who killed herself lived in florida.

The very first story mentioned to start the OT thread was regarding a 13-year-old girl being prosecuted as a sex offender in Utah.

166 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:53:36pm

Well the largest number of sexual assault offenders are 13 or 14 years old according to the DOJ statistics. I found a spreadsheet that shows not only the offenders age but the age of the victims of each age group. Pretty informative because most of the victims are much younger, pre-pubescent in fact. Take a look at the numbers...

[Link: www.swivel.com...]

167 Gus  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 1:58:46pm

Damn it.

That case if from 2006. It was overturned by the Utah State Court.

Utah high court dismisses child sex abuse case

Is a child who has sex with another child an offender or just another victim?

The Utah Supreme Court tossed a criminal sex abuse case against a 13-year-old girl who became pregnant by a 12-year-old boy, declaring the case "absurd."

The Utah Attorney General's Office said that when she was 13, "Z.C." engaged in consensual sex with a 12-year-old boy and became pregnant. Weber County prosecutors filed delinquency petitions of child sex abuse against both of them.

The 12-year-old was adjudicated and given probation. Z.C. fought it, alleging the delinquency petition violated her constitutional rights and the legislature never intended the child sex abuse statute to punish children engaging in consensual sex with other children.

"We also find that applying the statute to treat Z.C. as both a victim and a perpetrator of child sex abuse for the same act leads to an absurd result that was not intended by the legislature," Supreme Court Justice Jill Parrish wrote.

The court said that by filing child sex abuse petitions against both, there is no discernible victim only culpable participants that the state seeks to punish.

168 Gus  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 2:01:40pm

re: #167 Gus 802

That case if is from 2006. It was overturned by the Utah State Court.

PIMF

I withdraw whatever doubt I may have cast on the Utah State Court and its members -- and BYU.

169 robdouth  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 2:30:21pm

re: #93 Jaerik

I can't agree with you on that. I minored in history at college and it was one of my favorite classes in high school and it was never yay America. We got Steinbeck's view, the Sacco and vanzetti schpiel for a week or two. I don't know where you got your history, but in mine, America was constantly trying to be compared equally with many other countries. It's that whole, no country/culture is better than another. I've never been in a classroom where it was otherwise, which doesn't bother me as long as it's facts and not opinion I'm reading. The only time I ever called BS in a history class was when at College that made us read Nickel and Dimed by Barbara Ehrenreich, because halfway in I knew she was full of shit.

170 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 2:34:04pm

re: #93 Jaerik

Just stop there, dude.

When you teach kids history from the perspective of American exceptionalism, you turn history into a comic book.

You can't blame them, because that's how it's taught in schools. Most don't even have world history as anything more than an elective these days, and some don't even have that. Many see any attempt to teach history as an actual complicated, constantly changing competition of ideologies and self-interests as "revisionism" and reject it outright. If it isn't "America! Fuck yeah!" then it's not worthy of consideration.

The same mindset can also be turned inwards, and used to isolate a party's current ideology from the messiness of history.

Obviously, this isn't my great-grandfather's GOP. Lincoln's election did not cause secession, any more than Arch-Duke Franz Ferdinand's assassination caused the First World War. It was simply the immediate trigger, but an important one, since it speaks to the real nature of the conflict.
When I was a child back in the 50s, schools in the south invariably taught a somewhat updated version of the standard Confederate line about the Civil War, that it was a struggle for liberty and self-determination and not really about slavery at all. Fear of economic dominance by the increasingly industrialized north was often cited as well. This nicely parallels, and exploits, the standard version of the Revolutionary War. The resonance with tea party anti-government themes is obvious.
People like Bachmann and Ron Paul would have been heavily exposed to this version of history early in their lives.
In fact, the profound cultural, social, and economic differences between North and South were the real cause but slavery lay at the heart of these differences.
This is where Lincoln and the election of 1860 come into the picture. The upstart Republican Party was new to national politics, it had had no role in traditional Southern economic and political grievances. Lincoln himself was a moderate by the standards of the time (ie not an abolitionist) but the Republicans had originated as an outgrowth of the Free Soil movement, they were therefore perceived as a mortal threat to the institution of slavery, and that alone was enough to push secessionists over the edge.

171 robdouth  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 2:35:19pm

re: #109 drcordell

This kind of historical writing is kind of pointless and pure speculation. It's like the history version of national enquirer. The C.A. Happ book is light on facts and much heavier on speculation. At least that's what I glean from the reviews.

172 celticdragon  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 2:49:07pm

re: #21 LudwigVanQuixote

Come on, the idea of GOP/BDSM is just too rich!

Just think of Rush as a subbie and Malkin as a icy leather domme...

Malkin in very high heeled boots and a leather bodice: Tell me why liberals are Godless you worthless slug!! CRACK! Lick my boots you little leftist sympathizer... CRACK!

Rush in nothing but a dog collar: Yes Ma'am, I am nothing but a worthless libtard Ma'am... CRACK! thank you Ma'am... CRACK! I am sorry Ma'am. Obama is the anti-Christ Ma'am.. CRACK!

I hope this didn't offend, but I am laughing out loud at the image.

Chock full of internet win!

173 celticdragon  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 2:51:28pm

re: #141 Gus 802

Practicing theocracy.

Yep

174 webevintage  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 3:56:25pm

Dear GOP,
It has been an annoy and crappy day.
Thank you for being incapable of creating a website.
This has given me a well needed belly laugh.

Signed,
webevintage

175 Ziggy Standard  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 5:26:00pm

re: #174 webevintage

Dear GOP,
It has been an annoy and crappy day.
Thank you for being incapable of creating a website.
This has given me a well needed belly laugh.

Signed,
webevintage

I agree - it's been awesome. Mind-boggling to think that at no stage in development did anyone involved see this coming.

176 idioma  Tue, Dec 15, 2009 11:56:06pm

What's the funniest "I'm a Republican because..." entry you can think of?


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