Here’s your humble Lizard Overlord discussing the issues of the day (via webcam) with the Heritage Foundation’s Conn Carroll, who gets increasingly agitated as the issues start to get closer to his biases — finally accusing me of being “pro-death” and “pro-euthanasia.”
http%3A%2F%2Fbloggingheads%2Etv%2Fdiavlogs%2Fliveplayer%2Dplaylist%2F24971%2F00%3A00%2F58%3A05
2 |
iceweasel Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:02:26pm |
Cool. I was hoping we’d have a thread for this.
Does anyone know the origin of the rightwing meme that the SPLC is actually some sort of hate site? Where does that come from?
| 3 |
Stan the Demanded Plan Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:04:33pm |
re: #2 iceweasel
Cool. I was hoping we’d have a thread for this.
Does anyone know the origin of the rightwing meme that the SPLC is actually some sort of hate site? Where does that come from?
He kept referring to “The Nation”. My guess is there was some sort of “expose” on how the SPLC spends its $. Which of course, devalues everything they stand for and do.
| 4 |
The Sanity Inspector Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:05:11pm |
Whoah, a whole hour. I’ll have to block out some time later and curl up with this. Curious that Mr. Carroll seems to be the host of the show; I guess I was expecting more of a Point/Counterpoint setup.
| 5 |
Interesting Times Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:07:02pm |
| 6 |
RealismRox Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:07:25pm |
re: #2 iceweasel
Was that what he was saying? I thought SPLC documented hate groups.
| 7 |
windsagio Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:08:27pm |
re: #2 iceweasel
best thing my ‘research’ could find:
[Link: www.splcinfo.com…]
***NOTE: Its a ‘wow we hate the SPLC’ site, but it gives a interesting rundown of where some of the claims about them come from.
| 8 |
Stan the Demanded Plan Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:08:38pm |
| 9 |
Mark Pennington Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:10:32pm |
re: #2 iceweasel
Cool. I was hoping we’d have a thread for this.
Does anyone know the origin of the rightwing meme that the SPLC is actually some sort of hate site? Where does that come from?
I know stormfront hates them with a passion. I have the highest regard for SPLC.
I can’t wait to watch this when I’m done with my chores here at home.
| 10 |
windsagio Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:10:50pm |
re: #8 Stanley Sea
Man, you’re gonna get road fatigue from that.
Being aware of the concept of ‘projection’ and dealing with the modern right is a good trip to an aneurysm.
| 11 |
recusancy Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:11:10pm |
re: #2 iceweasel
Cool. I was hoping we’d have a thread for this.
Does anyone know the origin of the rightwing meme that the SPLC is actually some sort of hate site? Where does that come from?
This article probably sums it up I would say.
I know nothing of this site so if it’s bad you can delete this comment for linking directly to it.
| 12 |
iceweasel Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:11:29pm |
re: #6 RealismRox
Was that what he was saying? I thought SPLC documented hate groups.
They do. They were instrumental in breaking the remnants of the KKK and some other similar groups in the 80’s— they were able to bankrupt them by filing civil suits on the behalf of families who had members killed by racists.
| 13 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:11:55pm |
re: #1 windsagio
Who isn’t pro-death?
You’re either pro-death or pro-unnatural-Gollum-esque-immortality! :D
Personally, I’m pro-gravity, and pro-respiration.
| 14 |
Summer Seale Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:12:16pm |
I’m watching it now while I make dinner.
Laptops just rock, huh? =)
| 15 |
windsagio Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:12:19pm |
re: #11 recusancy
argh, can you get in trouble for linking to awfuls? I didn’t know that, my link above might need to get nuked too then >>
| 16 |
iceweasel Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:13:29pm |
re: #11 recusancy
re: #7 windsagio
Cool thanks, checking out the links now.
re: #9 beekiller
I know stormfront hates them with a passion. I have the highest regard for SPLC.
I can’t wait to watch this when I’m done with my chores here at home.
Yes, I’ve always loved the SPLC too. They were on Robert Stacy McCain’s case back in 2003 (as part of their exposure of the WashTimes connections to racists and white supremacism).
| 17 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:13:29pm |
The right launches vicious attacks against the SPLC because they’ve exposed so much of the nasty underbelly of the right wing, and they continue to do a terrific job at it.
| 18 |
akarra Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:13:52pm |
Congrats, I guess? I’m never quite sure what to make of appearances in different venues: it seems like a lot of bloggers have a youtube channel or are guests on a podcast or are invited to guest blog or write a column on something considered more mainstream…
It’s a great thing you’re getting attention and have the opportunity to reach more: definitely hope LGF gets more readers, hope that more people take your views seriously. Then again, I’d imagine the bloggingheads audience knows LGF already. I’m curious to hear your thoughts on multiple channels of content distribution; I sometimes feel like new media has newer and newer ways of creating echo chambers. It isn’t all bad, obviously, but there’s a lot of redundancy.
| 19 |
windsagio Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:14:59pm |
re: #17 Charles
thats a good point too. If theres anyone they desperately need to discredit, its the SPLC.
| 20 |
Randall Gross Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:18:14pm |
re: #17 Charles
The right launches vicious attacks against the SPLC because they’ve exposed so much of the nasty underbelly of the right wing, and they continue to do a terrific job at it.
They also don’t seem to care if it’s left or right, they did a piece on Pacifica recently, they just find that there’s more open bigotry more frequently on the right. I’ve always found them to be factual to a fault.
| 21 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:18:56pm |
I found the format very distracting.
And Conn Carroll’s use of “fair enough” very dismissive.
I thought you did very well, Charles!
CONGRATULATIONS!
| 22 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:19:01pm |
re: #17 Charles
The right launches vicious attacks against the SPLC because they’ve exposed so much of the nasty underbelly of the right wing, and they continue to do a terrific job at it.
The stalkers have found this thread and they are in a full hate orgy. tfk is in the lead proving you were right to ban him by posting another of his e.e. cummings-esk hate poems attacking you. Seems he doesn’t like you living in his head.
| 23 |
The Sanity Inspector Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:19:36pm |
re: #9 beekiller
I know stormfront hates them with a passion. I have the highest regard for SPLC.
I can’t wait to watch this when I’m done with my chores here at home.
The founder of SPLC was a law colleague of the late Millard Fuller. So Habitat For Humanity occasionally gets some stray rounds from attacks on SPLC.
| 24 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:21:00pm |
re: #22 Dark_Falcon
The stalkers have found this thread and they are in a full hate orgy.
So what else is new?
| 25 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:23:01pm |
just finished up with it…‘“fair enough!”
Charles was his excellent self and thoroughly got his message across…good questions and good answers…one thing, Conn needs to decide if he’s growing a beard or not and get his shit straight on ‘suicide’
| 26 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:24:35pm |
| 27 |
iceweasel Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:24:55pm |
re: #19 windsagio
thats a good point too. If theres anyone they desperately need to discredit, its the SPLC.
Yeah, I guess this is just standard wingnut bullshit: “Let’s accuse an organisation that tracks hate groups of….being a hate group!”
Just like the real racists are always those people who point out racism, and the real defenders of democracy are those who are calling for civil war, assassination, and a military coup because…their guy didn’t win the last election.
“Unclear on the concept” doesn’t even begin to cover these levels of delusion. We need invent to a new term!
| 28 |
Vambo Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:25:00pm |
excellent composure, sir. That was more like a trial than an interview.
| 29 |
Achilles Tang Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:25:09pm |
I’m going to have to watch this in the morning. Must be gazillion connection right now and slow as treacle at 0 degrees.
| 30 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:25:18pm |
re: #17 Charles
The right launches vicious attacks against the SPLC because they’ve exposed so much of the nasty underbelly of the right wing, and they continue to do a terrific job at it.
Well good for them, then. You’re not doing a bad of it job yourself, either.
| 31 |
windsagio Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:26:33pm |
| 32 |
Vicious Babushka Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:27:11pm |
I watched “Inglourious Basterds” on DVD. Except for the Brad Pitt scenes, it was totally. fucking. boring. Turned it off after 105 minutes. And BTW, I know German and French. How horrible was this movie for people who don’t know German and French.
| 33 |
Vambo Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:28:53pm |
re: #11 recusancy
This article probably sums it up I would say.
I know nothing of this site so if it’s bad you can delete this comment for linking directly to it.
ack, I can’t find it again in the clip but I could’ve sworn CC said “The Nation” - really? The Nation?
| 34 |
Boondock St. Bender Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:29:06pm |
re: #2 iceweasel
hate site…well,they seem to hate the klan,aryan nation,neo nazi’s.etc.
/
| 35 |
jaunte Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:29:06pm |
Conn Carroll is giving the eyeroll to the idea that creationists are deleterious to science education (23:00).
| 36 |
Vambo Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:29:56pm |
re: #35 jaunte
Conn Carroll is giving the eyeroll to the idea that creationists are deleterious to science education (23:00).
he eyerolled about 20 times. arrogant fellow.
| 37 |
recusancy Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:30:11pm |
re: #33 Vambo
ack, I can’t find it again in the clip but I could’ve sworn CC said “The Nation” - really? The Nation?
Maybe The Nation of Islam? The SPLC designated them as a hate group.
| 38 |
Boondock St. Bender Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:30:42pm |
re: #32 Alouette
I thought i was the only one who thought that.The plot was the stupidest thing i had ever saw.Does tarantino even try anymore?
deathproof,and now this….sad.
| 39 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:30:48pm |
re: #35 jaunte
Conn Carroll is giving the eyeroll to the idea that creationists are deleterious to science education (23:00).
he looks to the heavens quite a bit I noticed, thinks creationists are a nontroversy…he got schooled on that
| 41 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:31:45pm |
re: #35 jaunte
Conn Carroll is giving the eyeroll to the idea that creationists are deleterious to science education (23:00).
Oblivious, insulting, and stupid; Its another Wingnut Trifecta.
| 42 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:32:23pm |
re: #36 Vambo
he eyerolled about 20 times. arrogant fellow.
I didn’t see him as arrogant…he talked over Charles a couple of times…no big deal…he’s a talking head, that’s what they do
| 43 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:32:42pm |
re: #22 Dark_Falcon
Tfk is just jealous that iceweasel is married, and not to him!
Demented, they are.
*waves*
| 44 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:32:59pm |
re: #41 Dark_Falcon
Oblivious, insulting, and stupid; Its another Wingnut Trifecta.
where did he insult Charles?…I didn’t catch it
| 45 |
Jimmah Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:33:36pm |
re: #22 Dark_Falcon
The stalkers have found this thread and they are in a full hate orgy. tfk is in the lead proving you were right to ban him by posting another of his e.e. cummings-esk hate poems attacking you. Seems he doesn’t like you living in his head.
TFK serves as a grim warning of what being a wingnut for too long can do to you.
| 46 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:34:02pm |
re: #38 Boondock St. Bender
I thought i was the only one who thought that.The plot was the stupidest thing i had ever saw.Does tarantino even try anymore?
deathproof,and now this…sad.
I actually liked Deathproof. It was fun and at times funny and it only required one major suspension of disbelief.
| 47 |
RealismRox Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:34:55pm |
Credit to Conn Carroll, he did give Charles a chance to fully explain his positions and was basically fair. Makes for good watching, I wish there was more stuff like this available.
| 48 |
The Sanity Inspector Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:36:20pm |
re: #20 Thanos
They also don’t seem to care if it’s left or right, they did a piece on Pacifica recently, they just find that there’s more open bigotry more frequently on the right. I’ve always found them to be factual to a fault.
They also don’t hesistate to label the Nation of Islam as a hate group.
| 49 |
recusancy Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:36:26pm |
re: #47 RealismRox
Credit to Conn Carroll, he did give Charles a chance to fully explain his positions and was basically fair. Makes for good watching, I wish there was more stuff like this available.
There’s tons of this stuff. Look through the archives.
| 50 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:37:05pm |
Ivan Stamenov strikes back, and posts another illustration by antisemite David Dees:
[Link: translate.google.com…]
This guy is so insane it boggles the mind.
| 51 |
jaunte Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:38:50pm |
Excellent point about the excessive political noise around agw.
| 52 |
Vambo Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:39:27pm |
re: #37 recusancy
Maybe The Nation of Islam? The SPLC designated them as a hate group.
LOL, I thought he was saying that SPLC was being discredited by The Nation magazine, which is uber-liberal.
“They are a hate group fundraising organization. They’ve gotten an F from Non Profit Rating Agency for keeping reserves, basically all they do is raise money, all they do is raise fear about hate groups in order to survive financially”
“I’ll post some links to articles in The Nations and Harper [The Nation and Harper’s???] blowing the lid on the SPLC for the complete fraudsters they are”
currently doing a google search in a new tab! *smirk*
| 53 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:39:36pm |
re: #50 Charles
Ivan Stamenov strikes back, and posts another illustration by antisemite David Dees:
[Link: translate.google.com…]
This guy is so insane it boggles the mind.
I propose that whenever he does that, we call out “Crazy Ivan!” Because that submarine warfare phrase suits him well.
| 55 |
Stan the Demanded Plan Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:40:11pm |
re: #50 Charles
Arrgh! There’s even a translation: Fistgeyt
| 56 |
Gus Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:41:15pm |
re: #50 Charles
Ivan Stamenov strikes back, and posts another illustration by antisemite David Dees:
[Link: translate.google.com…]
This guy is so insane it boggles the mind.
At this rate you can almost say that Jim Hoft (Gateway Pundit) has become a middle man for softening the image of anti-Semite David Dees.
It does boggle the mind but they’ll probably start re-thinking their view on David Dees much like they do regarding the racist imagery of Barack Obama.
| 57 |
The Sanity Inspector Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:41:38pm |
re: #50 Charles
Ivan Stamenov strikes back, and posts another illustration by antisemite David Dees:
[Link: translate.google.com…]
This guy is so insane it boggles the mind.
It doesn’t look as if that stuff would make any more sense in colloquial English than it does in Googlish.
| 58 |
Vambo Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:42:56pm |
aha!
[Link: www.americanpatrol.com…]
[Link: www.harpers.org…]
hmmm. Not good. But not totally damning either.
| 59 |
iceweasel Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:43:04pm |
re: #43 Floral Giraffe
Tfk is just jealous that iceweasel is married, and not to him!
Demented, they are.
*waves*
Hey cutie! *waves*
tfk hates loads of people. Demented. Is he babbling about us again?
(I know I shouldn’t ask, they thrive on being noticed.)
| 60 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:43:09pm |
re: #57 The Sanity Inspector
It doesn’t look as if that stuff would make any more sense in colloquial English than it does in Googlish.
It doesn’t. That’s a site that publishes stuff by Alex Jones, for sobbing out loud.
| 61 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:43:17pm |
Heh, I like how he tries to turn the tables on SPLC.
| 62 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:44:53pm |
re: #59 iceweasel
Hey cutie! *waves*
tfk hates loads of people. Demented. Is he babbling about us again?
(I know I shouldn’t ask, they thrive on being noticed.)
Yep, he says you’re in love with him and he’s calling me Dark Fowl_Con. Just his usual ranting.
| 63 |
Jimmah Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:45:58pm |
re: #1 windsagio
Who isn’t pro-death?
Although they intend to abolish suffering first! (baby steps…)
| 64 |
Vicious Babushka Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:46:21pm |
re: #38 Boondock St. Bender
I thought i was the only one who thought that.The plot was the stupidest thing i had ever saw.Does tarantino even try anymore?
deathproof,and now this…sad.
From the reviews, I was led to believe that this movie was all about Brad Pitt and his team committing creative acts of mayhem. Instead it was mostly about random people sitting in cafes and chit chatting in French and German.
Fucking. Lame.
| 65 |
metrolibertarian Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:46:25pm |
re: #50 Charles
Ivan Stamenov strikes back, and posts another illustration by antisemite David Dees:
[Link: translate.google.com…]
This guy is so insane it boggles the mind.
The scary thing is, even though it’s a very very rough translation from the original Bulgarian, the translation’s grammar and sanity is only slightly lower than the average post on Atlas Shrugs or “article” on World Net Daily…
| 66 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:46:40pm |
it always amazes me how a long gone poster still incites people
| 67 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:46:42pm |
re: #58 Vambo
aha!
[Link: www.americanpatrol.com…]
[Link: www.harpers.org…]hmmm. Not good. But not totally damning either.
If the SPLC profits by suing hate groups, good for them. It lets them have more resources to take down more of these racist freaks, and I don’t see anything wrong with that at all.
| 68 |
iceweasel Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:49:07pm |
re: #58 Vambo
aha!
[Link: www.americanpatrol.com…]
[Link: www.harpers.org…]hmmm. Not good. But not totally damning either.
I get it. From Harper’s:
Revenues listed for the 2005 filing came to about $44 million, which dwarfed total spending ($29 million). Of that latter amount, nearly $5 million was spent to raise even more money, and over $8 million was spent on salaries, benefits, and other compensation. The next time you get a fund-raising pitch from the SPLC, give generously—but give to a group that will make better use of your money. Like Global Witness.
So basically, the wingnut problem with the SPLC is that they’re raising too much money, and we can’t have a good ‘lefty’ organisation doing that.
That’s reserved for right wing ‘thinktanks’ and creationist scam foundations, not a group that tracks hate groups and embarrasses the right on a regular basis.
Got it.
| 69 |
iceweasel Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:51:57pm |
re: #66 albusteve
it always amazes me how a long gone poster still incites people
It always amazes me how people will defend anyone who posts at those places.
“of course they’re saying very bad things…but the real problem is all you people who point it out or notice it!!”
Maybe you can do your own youtube video: “LEAVE TFK ALLOOOOONE!”
| 70 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:52:17pm |
It’s pitifully ironic to see the right wing trying to use the SPLC’s profitability against them. Aren’t conservatives supposed to be in favor of capitalism, the American Dream, etc.? Yet they attack the SPLC for making too much money?
Excuse me while I snicker.
Now I see where Conn Carroll was going with that line of “argument,” and it’s pathetic.
| 71 |
freetoken Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:52:18pm |
FYI, the player on the BH website allows for sped-up play (1.4x), as well as marking start and stop points for generating a link that can start anywhere you want (just in case you want to sprinkle links to this diavlog around the web :-) )
| 73 |
metrolibertarian Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:52:55pm |
re: #62 Dark_Falcon
Yep, he says you’re in love with him and he’s calling me Dark Fowl_Con. Just his usual ranting.
So they basically sit in a chat or a forum or whatever, and bitch and moan about Little Green Footballs and their being banned?
What a waste of time. Doesn’t anyone fuck in their free time anymore?
| 74 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:54:37pm |
re: #69 iceweasel
It always amazes me how people will defend anyone who posts at those places.
“of course they’re saying very bad things…but the real problem is all you people who point it out or notice it!!”
Maybe you can do your own youtube video: “LEAVE TFK ALLOOONE!”
I’m not defending anyone…you are getting close to hysterical again…next you’ll be calling me shithead!….hahaha!…I’m amazed that a long gone poster can still incite people here
| 75 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:55:16pm |
re: #73 metrolibertarian
Sooo…. Are you free next weekend?
//
| 76 |
Gus Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:55:21pm |
I must say, this makes me change my opinion of Conn Carroll. I never realized he was such a condescending tool.
| 77 |
Racer X Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:56:05pm |
re: #73 metrolibertarian
So they basically sit in a chat or a forum or whatever, and bitch and moan about Little Green Footballs and their being banned?
What a waste of time. Doesn’t anyone fuck in their free time anymore?
*lights up a smoke*
Funny you should ask…
| 78 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:56:12pm |
re: #75 Slumbering Behemoth
You owe me a new keyboard!
| 79 |
Gus Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:56:43pm |
Here we go with the “Pat Buchanan is on MSNBC because the libruls want him to represent conservatives” conpiracy.
Threat level on RED! We’ve attained BUTTHURT.
| 80 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:57:09pm |
“How many conservatives do you know?”
/What an idiot.
| 81 |
jaunte Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:57:10pm |
He mentions some of the criticism that the organizers of CPAC got for inviting the Birchers. Just doing a quick look, it seems a lot of the criticism was about it being a bad tactical decision, because it would make conservatives look bad. No value judgments on the Birch Society itself.
| 82 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:57:37pm |
re: #73 metrolibertarian
So they basically sit in a chat or a forum or whatever, and bitch and moan about Little Green Footballs and their being banned?
What a waste of time. Doesn’t anyone fuck in their free time anymore?
I don’t, but then again I don’t fuck at all. Some people on this blog, however:
| 83 |
Gus Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:57:52pm |
re: #80 Killgore Trout
“How many conservatives do you know?”
/What an idiot.
Is this guy in his early 30s? He’s such a churlish dweeb.
| 84 |
Vambo Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:58:30pm |
re: #68 iceweasel
So basically, the wingnut problem with the SPLC is that they’re raising too much money, and we can’t have a good ‘lefty’ organisation doing that.
That’s reserved for right wing ‘thinktanks’ and creationist scam foundations, not a group that tracks hate groups and embarrasses the right on a regular basis.
Got it.
LOL.
But… one of the criticisms that seems legitimate is that they exaggerate the influence of some hate groups - such as the KKK, who have pretty much no influence anymore. BUT like I said… BFD.
| 85 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:58:32pm |
re: #79 Gus 802
Here we go with the “Pat Buchanan is on MSNBC because the libruls want him to represent conservatives” conpiracy.
Threat level on RED! We’ve attained BUTTHURT.
| 86 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:58:38pm |
re: #80 Killgore Trout
“How many conservatives do you know?”
/What an idiot.
I know. That question nearly made me laugh out loud.
| 88 |
iceweasel Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:58:49pm |
re: #79 Gus 802
Here we go with the “Pat Buchanan is on MSNBC because the libruls want him to represent conservatives” conpiracy.
Threat level on RED! We’ve attained BUTTHURT.
haha…yes indeed. Red alert.
| 89 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:59:45pm |
re: #80 Killgore Trout
“How many conservatives do you know?”
/What an idiot.
thousands!…I loved it…Conn is a bit of a yerk
| 90 |
Liberal Classic Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:59:53pm |
re: #13 WindUpBird
You’re either pro-death or pro-unnatural-Gollum-esque-immortality! :D
Personally, I’m pro-gravity, and pro-respiration.
I’m anti-gravity.
| 91 |
Vambo Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:00:23pm |
re: #87 jaunte
Man, he almost loses it on the suicide issue.
seriously… “pro-death”? “pro-killing people”?
| 92 |
Boondock St. Bender Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:00:36pm |
re: #74 albusteve
well…if some of the vile things those guys write were about you,you might feel differently.they seem to have a affinity for ice weasal,sharmuta and mandy.
| 93 |
prairiefire Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:01:10pm |
Charles, from what I have read, I think you know quite a few conservatives.
| 94 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:01:48pm |
re: #92 Boondock St. Bender
well…if some of the vile things those guys write were about you,you might feel differently.they seem to have a affinity for ice weasal,sharmuta and mandy.
just ignore them
| 95 |
windsagio Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:03:09pm |
re: #92 Boondock St. Bender
re: #94 albusteve
TBH, I find the whole thing kinda incestuous. Its like people feeding off of each others outrage.
The haters and stalkers love to go on and oooon about Charles (and commenters on here) but Charles (and the commenters) sure do bring it to everyones attention each time it happens~
/ducks
| 96 |
Boondock St. Bender Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:03:22pm |
re: #94 albusteve
i usually do,but they ain’t talking about me…lol
but yeah i do get your point.
| 97 |
Jimmah Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:03:58pm |
re: #82 Dark_Falcon
I don’t, but then again I don’t fuck at all. Some people on this blog, however:
[Video]
Heh. Unfortunately though, Ice-ski and I can’t fuck at the moment either. (sniff) :(
| 98 |
Gus Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:03:59pm |
Charles, Conn Carroll was putting words in your mouth.
Big time.
Fuck Conn Carroll.
| 99 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:04:09pm |
Instapundit is now trying to deny that the Obama shoeshine picture is racist.
[Link: pajamasmedia.com…]
| 100 |
iceweasel Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:04:43pm |
re: #84 Vambo
LOL.
But… one of the criticisms that seems legitimate is that they exaggerate the influence of some hate groups - such as the KKK, who have pretty much no influence anymore. BUT like I said… BFD.
Yes— because of the SPLC bankrupting them in the 80’s.
Frankly, the more money they raise the better. Especially now. They’ve documented a surge in membership of hategroups and a revival of anti-gubbmint militia activity. And it’s not like we have to simply take their word for that, either. It’s being documented here! Look at the explosion of bile pouring out of the right now.
The SPLC is more relevant than ever at the moment, IMO.
| 101 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:04:53pm |
re: #95 windsagio
re: #94 albusteve
TBH, I find the whole thing kinda incestuous. Its like people feeding off of each others outrage.
The haters and stalkers love to go on and ooon about Charles (and commenters on here) but Charles (and the commenters) sure do bring it to everyones attention each time it happens~
/ducks
[flings clump of mud at windsagio]
| 102 |
laZardo Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:06:10pm |
Wow. Amazing how much of conservatism’s true face can be revealed by simple research and debunking.
| 103 |
iceweasel Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:06:55pm |
re: #82 Dark_Falcon
I don’t, but then again I don’t fuck at all. Some people on this blog, however:
[Video]
:( What Jimmah said. We’re on two different continents now and will remain so for the foreseeable future, sadly.
| 104 |
Jimmah Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:07:00pm |
re: #94 albusteve
just ignore them
See someone commenting on something you’d rather they weren’t commenting on?
Just ignore them.
It’s amazing how some people posting about things they don’t want to see posted on can incite some folks.
Ps - don’t take yourself so seriously etc.
| 105 |
metrolibertarian Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:07:02pm |
re: #92 Boondock St. Bender
well…if some of the vile things those guys write were about you,you might feel differently.they seem to have a affinity for ice weasal,sharmuta and mandy.
Robert Stacy Mkkkain seems to have an affinity for Sharmuta and others on this blog too. It actually is kind of shocking to me that a blog wholly independent of another blog actually takes time to blast specific members of the community and not the philosophy and entries of the blog itself. It actually makes less sense than the ridiculous forum Conservative Underground and its forums dedicated to individual members of Democratic Underground.
| 106 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:07:56pm |
re: #104 Jimmah
See someone commenting on something you’d rather they weren’t commenting on?
Just ignore them.
It’s amazing how some people posting about things they don’t want to see posted on can incite some folks.
Ps - don’t take yourself so seriously etc.
tora tora tora
| 107 |
CapeCoddah Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:08:23pm |
Excellent interview, Charles, his body language was comical. You had him squarely against the ropes without a single eyeroll. He looked and sounded like a jackass. I especially loved how he wanted no part of discussing what is actually contained in those websites the SPLC took issue with.
| 108 |
Racer X Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:08:38pm |
re: #97 Jimmah
Heh. Unfortunately though, Ice-ski and I can’t fuck at the moment either. (sniff) :(
Is there a waiting period?
Seriously, congrats to you and Ice!
| 109 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:09:24pm |
re: #95 windsagio
I think that if you had had these “Stalkers” really try to find out who you are, and come hurt you or your family, you might not laugh them off so lightly. They really are very sick people.
| 110 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:09:24pm |
re: #107 CapeCoddah
Excellent interview, Charles, his body language was comical. You had him squarely against the ropes without a single eyeroll. He looked and sounded like a jackass. I especially loved how he wanted no part of discussing what is actually contained in those websites the SPLC took issue with.
and then his wife bailed him out….heh
| 111 |
Jimmah Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:09:27pm |
re: #108 Racer X
Is there a waiting period?
Seriously, congrats to you and Ice!
Thanks! Yes, of uncertain duration.
| 112 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:09:51pm |
re: #83 Gus 802
Is this guy in his early 30s? He’s such a churlish dweeb.
Yeah, he’s not the sharpest tack in the drawer. He tried a couple times to lure Charles into shallow water with a topic that Charles hasn’t been following but he could get Charles to take the bait and dig in his heels. That was his only decent debate technique. Most of his arguments were pretty standard and nothing he waven’t already been through on LGF. The strawmen were just not working out for him. There’s nothing lamer than the strawman gimmick.
| 114 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:10:15pm |
| 115 |
jaunte Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:10:27pm |
Good interview, well presented. Carroll didn’t have much in the way of rebuttal, though he was obviously in disagreement with many of your points.
| 116 |
CapeCoddah Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:10:28pm |
re: #110 albusteve
and then his wife bailed him out…heh
Is that like a blind date emergency bail out call?
| 117 |
windsagio Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:10:49pm |
re: #109 Floral Giraffe
You’ll excuse me while I carefully back away now, I don’t wanna get into an argument with the whole community (except for some guy who I don’t really get along with) about this :o
| 118 |
jaunte Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:11:33pm |
I counted seven “fair-enoughs” so it may be time for Carroll to develop a new transition phrase.
| 119 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:11:49pm |
re: #117 windsagio
No worries.
Just wanted to give you a different perspective.
I’m not a war kinda Giraffe!
| 120 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:12:01pm |
re: #116 CapeCoddah
Is that like a blind date emergency bail out call?
I just thought it was a bizarre way to end an interview which he clearly was not doing too well with
| 121 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:12:08pm |
I’m at the 39 min. mark of the video. At this point it is obvious that from the AGW subject on, Conn has been using leading questions to try to get Charles to trip on his dick, and is becoming increasingly frustrated with Charles’s ability to articulate his positions without taking the dick tripping bait.
Good work, Charles.
| 122 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:12:18pm |
re: #117 windsagio
You’ll excuse me while I carefully back away now, I don’t wanna get into an argument with the whole community (except for some guy who I don’t really get along with) about this :o
Good decision. One of the keys to wisdom is knowing when to back down.
| 123 |
BryanS Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:12:27pm |
re: #99 Charles
Instapundit is now trying to deny that the Obama shoeshine picture is racist.
[Link: pajamasmedia.com…]
His heading does call it racist. He’s just trying to claim it was from a Democrat, but as has been pointed out, it is not proven where the picture originated from. It has been picked up by racist elements of the right to criticize Obama. .
| 124 |
Gus Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:13:13pm |
re: #112 Killgore Trout
Yeah, he’s not the sharpest tack in the drawer. He tried a couple times to lure Charles into shallow water with a topic that Charles hasn’t been following but he could get Charles to take the bait and dig in his heels. That was his only decent debate technique. Most of his arguments were pretty standard and nothing he waven’t already been through on LGF. The strawmen were just not working out for him. There’s nothing lamer than the strawman gimmick.
It was a string of strawmen and putting words into Charles mouth. Especially that last line about “so if you’re against Obama you’re a racist” meme. Then he ends by saying he has a call from his wife and has to meet her at the pediatricians? Is this for real?
| 125 |
CapeCoddah Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:13:59pm |
re: #120 albusteve
I can’t recall ever having to call my husband from the pediatricians office…. but, we had no cell phones yet.
| 126 |
Summer Seale Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:14:18pm |
Just finished watching the whole thing.
Wow, he really gets more than just “agitated”….he gets “offended”! You can tell with his mannerisms, his body motion, and the way he just makes blanket statements about Charles’s viewpoints such as flatly stating that Charles thinks all people who oppose Obama are racists.
Making fun of Kerry about nuance was really kind of funny, but it speaks volumes four years later when many Conservatives really don’t understand anything (or pretend not to) about nuance.
You can tell that’s what is going on with this interview. Charles is talking about general trends which made him extremely uncomfortable at the very least (and many others here as well), and, just like most “Conservatives” these days, takes a statement about obvious trends and slams it as some sort of blanket statement about everyone on that side.
Much like they do, might add, with statements about the general trends of Global Warming.
He said he doesn’t understand how anti-science isn’t important as an issue? I think he proves Charles’s point right there about not grasping the nuances of life and the world around him.
| 127 |
Gus Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:15:22pm |
The AGW let’s talk about Al Gore meme pulled out for the 1 billionth time.
| 128 |
The Sanity Inspector Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:15:44pm |
re: #97 Jimmah
Heh. Unfortunately though, Ice-ski and I can’t fuck at the moment either. (sniff) :(
Take it easy, you two. Save some for later! :)
| 129 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:16:44pm |
re: #124 Gus 802
I think that’s why Charles came out better in that exchange. Charles was being honest and explaining why he feels the way he does and Carroll was trying to be clever and win an argument.
| 131 |
windsagio Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:17:38pm |
re: #129 Killgore Trout
most important rule is to never look like you’re trying to win ;)
| 132 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:17:52pm |
re: #128 The Sanity Inspector
Take it easy, you two. Save some for later! :)
[Video]
Great song, a true classic. Those two were both great singers and they did very well together in Jackson.
| 133 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:17:54pm |
Commenters at Bloggingheads are not very positive towards Conn Carroll.
| 134 |
Gus Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:18:27pm |
re: #129 Killgore Trout
I think that’s why Charles came out better in that exchange. Charles was being honest and explaining why he feels the way he does and Carroll was trying to be clever and win an argument.
Yes. Calm, cool and collected. Carroll looked nervous, bored, condescending, and brought out a lot of approved Heritage Foundation talking points that he would never dare stray from. Overall though Carroll was rude and made a lot of childish facial expressions.
| 135 |
metrolibertarian Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:18:44pm |
re: #127 Gus 802
The AGW let’s talk about Al Gore meme pulled out for the 1 billionth time.
Well since global warming is almost entirely a creation of Al Gore’s wild imagination, you can’t talk about the general subject without mentioning the author of the fantasy. It’s like how you can’t have an intellectually honest conversation about evolution without bringing up the Holocaust and how you can’t have one without the other.
/
| 136 |
BryanS Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:18:51pm |
re: #124 Gus 802
It was a string of strawmen and putting words into Charles mouth. Especially that last line about “so if you’re against Obama you’re a racist” meme. Then he ends by saying he has a call from his wife and has to meet her at the pediatricians? Is this for real?
Heh…that’s almost slapstick funny about the ending duck out. Can’t watch the video right now, but I’ll watch it later and look out for the fun ending.
| 137 |
laZardo Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:18:57pm |
re: #126 Summer
Conservatism today is the exception to that blanket rule, it seems.
| 138 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:19:25pm |
re: #129 Killgore Trout
I think that’s why Charles came out better in that exchange. Charles was being honest and explaining why he feels the way he does and Carroll was trying to be clever and win an argument.
his job requires a fair ego…it got nicked a bit I’d say
| 139 |
Vambo Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:20:15pm |
re: #100 iceweasel
Yes— because of the SPLC bankrupting them in the 80’s.
Frankly, the more money they raise the better. Especially now. They’ve documented a surge in membership of hategroups and a revival of anti-gubbmint militia activity. And it’s not like we have to simply take their word for that, either. It’s being documented here! Look at the explosion of bile pouring out of the right now.
The SPLC is more relevant than ever at the moment, IMO.
ha, yeah I didn’t know about before I read the article. well done SPLC.
and I agree with you 100%, I was just playing the opposing view. I’ve decided he doesn’t have a leg to stand on! (and now I’m confused about Ken Silverstein, I used to think he was an excellent journalist. Why such a crap piece?)
| 140 |
The Sanity Inspector Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:21:16pm |
re: #103 iceweasel
:( What Jimmah said. We’re on two different continents now and will remain so for the foreseeable future, sadly.
That’s teh SuXxoR, my sympathies.
| 141 |
Gus Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:22:03pm |
re: #136 BryanS
Heh…that’s almost slapstick funny about the ending duck out. Can’t watch the video right now, but I’ll watch it later and look out for the fun ending.
Yeah. It’s pretty lame. At that point Conn Carroll’s head is filling up the screen from the top of his head to just above his chin and right below his lower lip with the right side if his face almost off the screen. His eyes are moving left to right and up and down. Almost like he’s waiting at a bus stop for his bus to arrive.
| 142 |
The Sanity Inspector Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:22:49pm |
| 143 |
freetoken Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:23:07pm |
re: #133 Charles
I’ve been visiting BH since near its inception, and the original viewers and commenters were mostly, if I may use this term, “liberal”. Over the years the commenters have balanced out more.
However, the nature of the site means that more often than not the viewer will be a fairly well educated person. This tends to skew the comments against the religious right.
Also, over the years Conn has not been a favorite of many of the regular commenters, in part I think because his carrying-the-water for Heritage puts him at odds with a large segment of the viewership.
| 144 |
iceweasel Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:23:38pm |
re: #108 Racer X
Is there a waiting period?
Seriously, congrats to you and Ice!
Thanks Racer.
Yeah, we have to apply for a special visa, supply all kinds of info, it’s a whole complicated process. financial records for us both going back six months, documentation of every aspect of our existences, collection of my biometric data so the UK can run it through Homeland Security, all kinds of stuff. I spent an hour today just trying to decipher the date stamps in my passport so they can check every detail of where I have been for the last ten years.
On the one hand, it is terrific that the UK goes to such lengths (part of it is to weed out arranged marriages where the bride may be being forced to marry someone) — on the other, it means an indefinite time apart (because you can’t already be in the UK on a standard tourist visa while you wait for the spousal visa.)
This isn’t even for attaining citizenship or a permanent leave to remain visa— it’s solely to enter the country as the wife of a UK citizen.
| 145 |
The Sanity Inspector Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:23:47pm |
re: #114 Dark_Falcon
Air Raid On Pearl Harbor. STOP This Is Not A Drill.
“You wanted confirmation? There’s your confirmation!”
| 146 |
Jimmah Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:26:01pm |
re: #129 Killgore Trout
I think that’s why Charles came out better in that exchange. Charles was being honest and explaining why he feels the way he does and Carroll was trying to be clever and win an argument.
Carroll seems awful frustrated. “Why isn’t this working? These are good points I’m making, right?”
No Caroll, they aren’t. Kudos to Charles for his honesty and clarity in cutting through this crap.
| 147 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:27:05pm |
re: #102 laZardo
Wow. Amazing how much of conservatism’s true face can be revealed by simple research and debunking.
I like you dude, but I take exception to this statement. I think you likely know me well enough to know that I don’t abide the nonsense and atavistic garbage that has been creeping into the GOP from the far right.
I personally identify as conservative (Goldwater style, thank you), and see nothing at all conservative in the ideologies promoted by these dark-ages throwbacks that have hijacked the GOP.
| 149 |
windsagio Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:29:27pm |
re: #147 Slumbering Behemoth
well they were kinda invited in. I mean yeah, it sucks to be in your position. But this was all predictable at LEAST 20 years back, probably 40.
| 150 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:29:57pm |
re: #147 Slumbering Behemoth
I like you dude, but I take exception to this statement. I think you likely know me well enough to know that I don’t abide the nonsense and atavistic garbage that has been creeping into the GOP from the far right.
I personally identify as conservative (Goldwater style, thank you), and see nothing at all conservative in the ideologies promoted by these dark-ages throwbacks that have hijacked the GOP.
no matter…it will only grow and absorb all rational thought…pound away long enough and people will completely lose any distinction between conservatism and the GOP….smart people eh?
| 151 |
Bagua Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:30:39pm |
| 152 |
laZardo Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:30:48pm |
re: #147 Slumbering Behemoth
I like you dude, but I take exception to this statement. I think you likely know me well enough to know that I don’t abide the nonsense and atavistic garbage that has been creeping into the GOP from the far right.
I personally identify as conservative (Goldwater style, thank you), and see nothing at all conservative in the ideologies promoted by these dark-ages throwbacks that have hijacked the GOP.
As I’ve said before though, smaller-/responsible-government issues are more (lowercase-‘l’) libertarian than conservative and can be rationally argued. I identify you as a libertarian, not a conservative.
| 153 |
Vicious Babushka Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:31:00pm |
re: #144 iceweasel
Thanks Racer.
Yeah, we have to apply for a special visa, supply all kinds of info, it’s a whole complicated process. financial records for us both going back six months, documentation of every aspect of our existences, collection of my biometric data so the UK can run it through Homeland Security, all kinds of stuff. I spent an hour today just trying to decipher the date stamps in my passport so they can check every detail of where I have been for the last ten years.On the one hand, it is terrific that the UK goes to such lengths (part of it is to weed out arranged marriages where the bride may be being forced to marry someone) — on the other, it means an indefinite time apart (because you can’t already be in the UK on a standard tourist visa while you wait for the spousal visa.)
This isn’t even for attaining citizenship or a permanent leave to remain visa— it’s solely to enter the country as the wife of a UK citizen.
So you’re back in the secret Soros mountaintop lair?
| 154 |
Windhorse Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:32:11pm |
Charles, Your even-keeled approach here and in that interview is pretty powerful. I like your style.
| 155 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:32:49pm |
re: #133 Charles
Commenters at Bloggingheads are not very positive towards Conn Carroll.
That is interesting. His readers aren’t impressed by him either. He needs to work on his debate/discussion skills.
| 157 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:33:20pm |
re: #13 WindUpBird
You’re either pro-death or pro-unnatural-Gollum-esque-immortality! :D
Personally, I’m pro-gravity, and pro-respiration.
Those things’ll kill ya!
| 158 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:33:24pm |
re: #144 iceweasel
Thanks Racer.
Yeah, we have to apply for a special visa, supply all kinds of info, it’s a whole complicated process. financial records for us both going back six months, documentation of every aspect of our existences, collection of my biometric data so the UK can run it through Homeland Security, all kinds of stuff. I spent an hour today just trying to decipher the date stamps in my passport so they can check every detail of where I have been for the last ten years.On the one hand, it is terrific that the UK goes to such lengths (part of it is to weed out arranged marriages where the bride may be being forced to marry someone) — on the other, it means an indefinite time apart (because you can’t already be in the UK on a standard tourist visa while you wait for the spousal visa.)
This isn’t even for attaining citizenship or a permanent leave to remain visa— it’s solely to enter the country as the wife of a UK citizen.
as an American citizen you are getting undully stiffed by the Brits it seems like…so you marry a Scott?…what’s the big deal? or does the UK have it’s own Home Land Security?
| 159 |
Gus Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:33:29pm |
| 160 |
Gus Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:33:47pm |
| 161 |
The Sanity Inspector Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:34:22pm |
re: #144 iceweasel
Fortunately, there wasn’t the added layer of Homeland Security red tape to go through when I imported my wife to Georgia. Still had to go downtown and wait five hours for a three minute tete-a-tete more times than I care to remember. Hope things go smoothly if not swiftly.
| 162 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:34:46pm |
re: #20 Thanos
They also don’t seem to care if it’s left or right, they did a piece on Pacifica recently, they just find that there’s more open bigotry more frequently on the right. I’ve always found them to be factual to a fault.
They did a piece on hate crimes against white people in Hawaii not long ago. You got hate, they’ll call it hate. There are black, Jewish, Latino and all kindsa groups on their watch-list, and AFAIK, all of them need to be there.
| 163 |
iceweasel Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:35:04pm |
re: #153 Alouette
So you’re back in the secret Soros mountaintop lair?
Yes, thanks for asking! First i was in the Secret Scottish Soros lair for a few weeks, then we were both in the US lair, now he’s back at the scottish one. :(
BTW, I’ll make a formal apology in advance if I am especially snappish to people over the next couple of weeks. I hope I won’t be, but under the circumstances, you can see we have a lot of pentup energy. So to speak.
Have fun in LA, btw, whenever you get to go there. (sorry, don’t remember if you’re already there) *wave*
| 164 |
Gus Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:35:06pm |
re: #155 Killgore Trout
That is interesting. His readers aren’t impressed by him either. He needs to work on his debate/discussion skills.
This was like the Kennedy-Nixon debate with Charles as JFK and Carroll as Nixon.
| 165 |
freetoken Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:35:09pm |
For those who are not aware, famous blogger Ann Althouse (who on occasion cares for the Instapundit blog when Reynolds is away) has on a couple of occasions blown up (in hysterics) on BH.
| 166 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:36:12pm |
A brilliant moment from the master debater: Wright vs. Hitchens
| 167 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:36:14pm |
re: #23 The Sanity Inspector
The founder of SPLC was a law colleague of the late Millard Fuller. So Habitat For Humanity occasionally gets some stray rounds from attacks on SPLC.
Hey. I was almost folded in half while working for Habitat. They’re good people. Even with the Carter connection.
| 168 |
recusancy Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:36:46pm |
re: #165 freetoken
For those who are not aware, famous blogger Ann Althouse (who on occasion cares for the Instapundit blog when Reynolds is away) has on a couple of occasions blown up (in hysterics) on BH.
Most notably when talking with Garance Franke-Rutta.
| 169 |
laZardo Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:37:36pm |
re: #166 Killgore Trout
A brilliant moment from the master debater: Wright vs. Hitchens
Bring tissue before you click.
| 170 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:38:43pm |
re: #169 laZardo
It’s hilarious. I’m still laughing, It gets funnier if you watch it a few times.
| 171 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:39:28pm |
| 172 |
What, me worry? Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:40:36pm |
Wow saved by the bell (wife’s pediatrician).
You were awesome, Charles. LOVED the Pat Buchanan stuff!
I liked how he tried to back you in a corner to say that all Republicans are racist. Yet he ignores the elephant (racism) that hangs out in Republican corners. When you have Palin flirting with the birther issue, then it’s becoming mainstreamed and great cause for concern. One example of many.
Although there some of us that don’t think it was so far a leap.
| 173 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:42:08pm |
re: #164 Gus 802
This was like the Kennedy-Nixon debate with Charles as JFK and Carroll as Nixon.
Not really. Unlike Kennedy, Charles won on both style and substance.
| 174 |
What, me worry? Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:42:57pm |
Charles, could you see his face when you were talking?
| 175 |
Racer X Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:44:08pm |
Hey Charles, just for kicks you should open registration and see who floats in.
| 176 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:44:54pm |
re: #174 marjoriemoon
Charles, could you see his face when you were talking?
No, we were talking on the phone.
| 177 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:45:48pm |
WOW! The last ten minutes or so of the video are quite telling. Conn not only just lets his mask slip, he practically tears it off, jumping from leading questions right into blatant mouth-stuffing and grade school false dichotomies.
You handled yourself extremely well Charles. Very proud of you, and very proud to be a Lizard. Cheers!
| 178 |
The Sanity Inspector Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:46:18pm |
re: #163 iceweasel
Have some Scotland quotes:
Scotland is the country above all other that I have seen, in which a man of imagination may carve out his own pleasures; there are so many inhabited solitudes.
—Dorothy Wordsworth, 1803
Every Scottishman has a pedigree. It is a national prerogative, as unalienable as his pride and his poverty.
— Sir Walter Scott, _Memoir of the early life of…written by
himself_, 26 April 1808
If you unscotch us you, will find us damned mischievous Englismen.
— ibid, letter to J. W. Croker, MP, 19 March 1826
It is never difficult to distinguish between a Scotsman and a ray of sunshine.
— P. G. Wodehouse, in Richard Usborne’s _Wodehouse at Work_,
1961
There is still something of an Odyssey up there, in among the islands and the silent Lochs: like the twilight morning of the world, the herons fishing undisturbed by the water, and the sea running far in, for miles, between the wet trickling hills, where the cottages are low and almost invisible, built into the earth. It is still out of the world like the very beginning of Europe.
— D. H. Lawrence, letter to Else Jaffe, Newtonmore, 20 August 1926
| 179 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:46:18pm |
re: #175 Racer X
Hey Charles, just for kicks you should open registration and see who floats in.
That’s actually kind of a good idea. I’ve been reading abound the Blogging Heads site and the viewers seem to have an exceptionally good grasp of debate and a decent sense of humor.
| 180 |
Ojoe Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:47:43pm |
re: #167 SanFranciscoZionist
The Humane Society gives away kittties & they call it Tabby cat for Humanity.
| 181 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:47:55pm |
re: #179 Killgore Trout
Then again the wingnuts are extra agitated lately. Might not be wise.
| 182 |
laZardo Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:48:14pm |
re: #180 Ojoe
The Humane Society gives away kittties & they call it Tabby cat for Humanity.
i can haz chariti?
| 183 |
What, me worry? Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:48:27pm |
re: #176 Charles
No, we were talking on the phone.
Whew that’s a good thing. He was so visibly irritated.
| 184 |
Ojoe Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:48:54pm |
re: #178 The Sanity Inspector
How was wire invented? Two Scottmen were fighting over a penny.
| 185 |
Racer X Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:50:06pm |
re: #181 Killgore Trout
Then again the wingnuts are extra agitated lately. Might not be wise.
The nuts are easy to spot - they can’t help themselves.
| 186 |
windsagio Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:50:33pm |
The SPLC article about Hawaii is actually really interesting.
The subject in general is weird and worth looking at, but its also interesting for the way that the article is dripping in liberal guilt >
| 187 |
Gus Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:50:50pm |
re: #181 Killgore Trout
Then again the wingnuts are extra agitated lately. Might not be wise.
True. We are on Threat Level Massive - Critical Butthurt
| 188 |
metrolibertarian Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:51:36pm |
[Link: www.sfgate.com…]
Looks like the Atheists, puss… I mean Agnostics, and Jews among us now know when we should repent and accept Jesus to avoid the suffering of the tribulation.
| 189 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:53:10pm |
re: #186 windsagio
The SPLC article about Hawaii is actually really interesting.
The subject in general is weird and worth looking at, but its also interesting for the way that the article is dripping in liberal guilt >
I noticed the liberal guilt.
/
| 190 |
laZardo Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:54:47pm |
re: #188 metrolibertarian
[Link: www.sfgate.com…]
Looks like the Atheists, puss… I mean Agnostics, and Jews among us now know when we should repent and accept Jesus to avoid the suffering of the tribulation.
In case of Rapture… free cars! 8D
| 191 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:55:49pm |
re: #166 Killgore Trout
Wright is too shrill for my taste.
Hitchens, is ALWAYS a good debater. Articulate & prepared. Calm, for the most part…
| 192 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:56:03pm |
re: #188 metrolibertarian
I got something going on that day. Crap.
/
| 193 |
windsagio Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:56:05pm |
re: #190 laZardo
the guy I feel bad for is the one where he stays but the person in the oncoming lane gets Rapture’d.
***BLAMMO***
| 194 |
laZardo Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:56:42pm |
Decided to drop in on the #iranelection feed on Twitter. Someone was asking:
“What would Cyrus say about the situation today?”
To which I replied…
| 195 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:57:17pm |
re: #149 windsagio
well they were kinda invited in. I mean yeah, it sucks to be in your position. But this was all predictable at LEAST 20 years back, probably 40.
Invited into the GOP sure, but being a republican is not the same thing as being a conservative.
re: #150 albusteve
pound away long enough and people will completely lose any distinction between conservatism and the GOP
True. I will hold to my distinction, though, and pound away on that. It likely will do no good, but I have at it. It’s my thing.
re: #152 laZardo
I identify you as a libertarian, not a conservative.
You identify incorrectly, but it’s not difficult to understand why. There is some overlap between the small ‘l’ and the small ‘c’.
| 196 |
laZardo Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:57:18pm |
re: #193 windsagio
the guy I feel bad for is the one where he stays but the person in the oncoming lane gets Rapture’d.
***BLAMMO***
Nothing a basic toolkit can’t fix! q;
| 197 |
Racer X Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:57:18pm |
re: #190 laZardo
In case of Rapture… free cars! 8D
Dibs on the Ferrari’s!
No, wait, those A-holes aren’t going anywhere.
| 198 |
What, me worry? Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:57:38pm |
re: #188 metrolibertarian
[Link: www.sfgate.com…]
Looks like the Atheists, puss… I mean Agnostics, and Jews among us now know when we should repent and accept Jesus to avoid the suffering of the tribulation.
People that embrace death and destruction over life kinda scare me.
| 199 |
political lunatic Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:58:03pm |
re: #188 metrolibertarian
*groans* I find this stuff fascinating, but the world isn’t ending anytime this millennium. What’s the over/under on end of the world articles between now and 12/21/2012?
| 200 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:58:31pm |
re: #196 laZardo
Nothing a basic toolkit can’t fix! q;
And some duct tape. You always need duct tape.
| 201 |
windsagio Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:59:04pm |
re: #195 Slumbering Behemoth
I had a talk with someone about this the other day (I think it was Mandy); you have to accept that the mainstream definition of Conservative is ‘social conservative’ now. You’re a ‘Goldwater conservative’ (by your own statement), and thats not what people mean nowadays.
| 202 |
windsagio Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:59:24pm |
re: #196 laZardo
I’m more worried about the head thru’ the windshield >
| 203 |
metrolibertarian Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:00:29pm |
re: #191 Floral Giraffe
There is a YouTube clip of Hitchens debating one of Ray Comfort’s idiot subordinates that’s absolutely priceless (I believe the dude’s name is Todd Friel). The exchange is something like
Todd: according to God’s laws you’ll be going to hell.
Hitchens: who gives a shit? (bleeped out, this is christian radio after all)
| 204 |
laZardo Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:00:39pm |
re: #202 windsagio
I’m more worried about the head thru’ the windshield >
Eh, where he’s going, the plexiglass in his eyes are the least of his troubles. q;
| 205 |
freetoken Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:00:40pm |
Charles - since Conn mentioned Malkin, I wish you would have brought up her relationship to VDARE, to see if he would have defended her. It would have been telling to see how he would have handled it.
Are you going to do this again? If so, may I suggest a change in lighting… there are two problems with having a bright screen in front of you: the color is too cool, and lighting a human face from so close and slightly below the face flattens the facial structure.
Otherwise… I think you did a good job on staying on point. Conn is perhaps not a good match for you, as he is used to (and from appearances, desires) a strongly tit-for-tat companion, though again you come off well as someone who is serious. Bob Wright tends to try and pair opposite-but-similar types, e.g. a blogger with a blogger, but on different parts of the political spectrum. ( Usually I skip the political-blogger BH diavlogs, but I watched this one since it was interesting to see you in action. )
| 206 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:02:03pm |
re: #205 freetoken
Also, the background of Hitchens library is a better background than the plain walls Charles used.
| 208 |
Girth Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:02:45pm |
re: #188 metrolibertarian
[Link: www.sfgate.com…]
Looks like the Atheists, puss… I mean Agnostics, and Jews among us now know when we should repent and accept Jesus to avoid the suffering of the tribulation.
Isn’t it fun to take arbitrary numbers and perform arbitray operations on them?
| 209 |
laZardo Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:02:52pm |
re: #195 Slumbering Behemoth
You identify incorrectly, but it’s not difficult to understand why. There is some overlap between the small ‘l’ and the small ‘c’.
As I’ve said, conservatism hasn’t really had any constant political affiliation over the course of American history. And after what happened with the Patriot Act, we’re seeing a new breed of more rational centrist libertarians arise.
Conservative ‘values’ may work in family or community units, but they have no place on the national stage.
| 210 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:03:08pm |
re: #201 windsagio
I had a talk with someone about this the other day (I think it was Mandy); you have to accept that the mainstream definition of Conservative is ‘social conservative’ now. You’re a ‘Goldwater conservative’ (by your own statement), and thats not what people mean nowadays.
too bad, that’s their problem….just because someone redefines a word to fit their own agenda does not make it legit no matter how many people believe it…all this obsessive internet niche-ing is ridiculous
| 211 |
iceweasel Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:03:13pm |
re: #158 albusteve
as an American citizen you are getting undully stiffed by the Brits it seems like…so you marry a Scott?…what’s the big deal? or does the UK have it’s own Home Land Security?
Well, remember that the UK has been dealing with terrorism in their homeland for a lot longer than the US has (IRA, the Real IRA, etc.) This level of detail they apply is probably one reason why the underpants bomber was already on the no-fly list in the UK but not in the US.
(And frankly, this is probably a lot easier than it would be if I weren’t American.)
The US still could learn a lot from the UK in terms of protecting against terrorist attacks IMO. It bothers me greatly that even so long after 9-11, and so much money poured into the DHS, that the level of threat protection in the US isn’t higher.
The TSA wants to xray my shoes and tell me I can’t have anything on my lap for the last hour of flight. The UK wants to see our bank records to check if large sums of mysterious cash have been moving through our accounts from Yemen. That’s the difference.
| 212 |
Olsonist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:04:17pm |
re: #210 albusteve
Yes, but do you think that Las Cruces should be renamed?
| 213 |
laZardo Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:04:44pm |
| 214 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:05:15pm |
re: #212 Olsonist
Yes, but do you think that Las Cruces should be renamed?
you’ve asked me that twice…why?
| 215 |
windsagio Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:05:29pm |
re: #210 albusteve
Accepted usage is important. Also, one guy on a blog claiming ownership of a word, when most of the rest of that very blog use the word in question differently is just silly.
| 216 |
Vicious Babushka Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:06:04pm |
re: #211 iceweasel
The TSA wants to xray my shoes and tell me I can’t have anything on my lap for the last hour of flight. The UK wants to see our bank records to check if large sums of mysterious cash have been moving through our accounts from Yemen. That’s the difference.
I guess you’re OK then, unless Soros owns a bank in Yemen?
/
| 217 |
The Shadow Do Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:06:06pm |
Very informative conversation, Charles. Well worth the time listening. I especially enjoyed the rather weak prosecutorial interview tactics attempted by Mr. Carroll. Isn’t one supposed to know the answer to questions before asking? “Do you know any consevatives?” Damn that’s funny.
| 218 |
Olsonist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:06:13pm |
re: #214 albusteve
Cuz you asked it to me out of the blue. So I kind of figured that you had an opinion on the matter.
| 219 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:06:14pm |
| 220 |
Jimmah Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:06:51pm |
“Mexican Radio” - good song, even better restaurant, as folks from NYC will know:
| 221 |
windsagio Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:07:02pm |
re: #215 windsagio
Aka: Just because you (or anyone) wants conservative to not include the crazies, doesn’t mean you get to dictate it. Whats important is what the community and the country think the word means.
| 222 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:07:16pm |
re: #205 freetoken
Charles - since Conn mentioned Malkin, I wish you would have brought up her relationship to VDARE, to see if he would have defended her. It would have been telling to see how he would have handled it.
There were quite a few points I would have liked to bring up, but that’s how it goes — it’s impossible to talk about everything.
Are you going to do this again? If so, may I suggest a change in lighting… there are two problems with having a bright screen in front of you: the color is too cool, and lighting a human face from so close and slightly below the face flattens the facial structure.
Good points, and I’ll keep that in mind if I do another recording for Bloggingheads. There seems to be quite a bit of interest in the comments at BHTV for more recordings, so we’ll see.
| 223 |
metrolibertarian Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:07:55pm |
re: #210 albusteve
too bad, that’s their problem…just because someone redefines a word to fit their own agenda does not make it legit no matter how many people believe it…all this obsessive internet niche-ing is ridiculous
bullshit, there is only one definition of “conservative,” and it’s whatever Michelle Malkin says it is at the current moment!
| 224 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:08:08pm |
re: #211 iceweasel
Well, remember that the UK has been dealing with terrorism in their homeland for a lot longer than the US has (IRA, the Real IRA, etc.) This level of detail they apply is probably one reason why the underpants bomber was already on the no-fly list in the UK but not in the US.
(And frankly, this is probably a lot easier than it would be if I weren’t American.)
The US still could learn a lot from the UK in terms of protecting against terrorist attacks IMO. It bothers me greatly that even so long after 9-11, and so much money poured into the DHS, that the level of threat protection in the US isn’t higher.
The TSA wants to xray my shoes and tell me I can’t have anything on my lap for the last hour of flight. The UK wants to see our bank records to check if large sums of mysterious cash have been moving through our accounts from Yemen. That’s the difference.
I still think you are getting stiffed, not to seem to promote exceptionalism however I put it, it just seems like the process could be streamlined in your case…anyway, best of luck regardless
| 225 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:09:29pm |
re: #218 Olsonist
Cuz you asked it to me out of the blue. So I kind of figured that you had an opinion on the matter.
it was not out of the blue…it had to do with your support of the ACLU…and further I already gave you an answer…but soldier on
| 226 |
Olsonist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:10:05pm |
As long as there is a coalition between the socons and the ficons, the ficons have some taint.
| 228 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:10:29pm |
re: #223 metrolibertarian
bullshit, there is only one definition of “conservative,” and it’s whatever Michelle Malkin says it is at the current moment!
yes, well I’m all out of bandaids so now I just bleed all over…what can you do?
| 229 |
laZardo Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:10:51pm |
re: #222 Charles
Good points, and I’ll keep that in mind if I do another recording for Bloggingheads. There seems to be quite a bit of interest in the comments at BHTV for more recordings, so we’ll see.
Put an evil overlord backdrop behind you. That’ll help. :D
| 230 |
windsagio Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:11:18pm |
re: #226 Olsonist
I suspect they’d get out of it if they could, now :)
| 231 |
Ojoe Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:11:23pm |
Real Christianity is quite radical, not conservative in the sense of that word these days, IMHO.
Good night all.
| 232 |
Olsonist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:13:23pm |
re: #230 windsagio
I suspect they’d get out of it if they could, now :)
I think in the Reagan and Bush senior days, the SoCons were the crazy uncle in the attic. Since the W years, the FiCons are now the spinster aunt.
| 233 |
Ojoe Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:14:07pm |
re: #232 Olsonist
And there used to be a rodent poison called DiCon
| 234 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:14:15pm |
re: #229 laZardo
Put an evil overlord backdrop behind you. That’ll help. :D
Which one should he use: Ming the Merciless’ Palace, the Sekrit Underground Chamber Filled With Nitrogen, or the Mountaintop Lair of Soros where iceweasel abides?
| 235 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:14:45pm |
re: #201 windsagio
I had a talk with someone about this the other day (I think it was Mandy); you have to accept that the mainstream definition of Conservative is ‘social conservative’ now.
NEVER! Even the term ‘social conservative’, as it is applied today, is an oxymoron of sorts. There is nothing remotely conservative, nor liberal, about many of the positions on social issues that gain either suffix.
For example, there is nothing at all ‘socially conservative’ about the push to promote creationism into public schools as scientific theory, just as there is nothing ‘socially liberal’ about teaching validated, scientific theories in public school science classes.
You’re a ‘Goldwater conservative’ (by your own statement), and thats not what people mean nowadays.
I know, but I will continue to be obstinate in my position. My only other choice is to betray my principles and submit my position to the redefinitions of atavists and agitators.
| 236 |
Windhorse Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:15:36pm |
re: #233 Ojoe
There still is a poison out there called Decon….. not that I would know anything about rodents…. mind you.
| 237 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:15:37pm |
re: #232 Olsonist
I think in the Reagan and Bush senior days, the SoCons were the crazy uncle in the attic. Since the W years, the FiCons are now the spinster aunt.
they won elections, just like the far left threw in with a moderate (heh) BO…it’s all about votes, nothing else counts
| 238 |
metrolibertarian Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:16:13pm |
re: #234 Dark_Falcon
Which one should he use: Ming the Merciless’ Palace, the Sekrit Underground Chamber Filled With Nitrogen, or the Mountaintop Lair of Soros where iceweasel abides?
I think a Star of David with the pyramid with the hovering eye in the center of the Star of David to show how Charles is actually a pawn of the New World Order Illuminati Jews.
| 239 |
Girth Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:16:15pm |
re: #208 Girth
Isn’t it fun to take arbitrary numbers and perform arbitray operations on them?
What’s up with the downding Charles? That article is about a guy who says he’s calculated the exact day of Judgment Day. For the second time, mind you, because he made a mistake back in ‘94.
| 240 |
freetoken Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:16:55pm |
re: #222 Charles
One thing to think about - how about you being the interlocutor?
For instance, it might be interesting to see you grill John McWhorter for his fondness of Behe and ID. Another idea would be for you to dialog with your friend at True/Slant about how the RR and the right-wing are covering up for people like RSM.
| 241 |
windsagio Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:17:16pm |
re: #235 Slumbering Behemoth
I guess my point more is that its not worth your time getting up in arms each time people say something bad about ‘conservatives’. You know they don’t mean people like you (/Unless they do!) and you’re not helping yourself at all by being unduly defensive.
Like it or not, you’re not going to get people to quit using the term in a way you find offensive >>
| 242 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:17:17pm |
re: #239 Girth
What’s up with the downding Charles? That article is about a guy who says he’s calculated the exact day of Judgment Day. For the second time, mind you, because he made a mistake back in ‘94.
math is teh hard…give the guy a mulligan
| 243 |
Ojoe Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:18:08pm |
| 244 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:18:26pm |
re: #241 windsagio
I guess my point more is that its not worth your time getting up in arms each time people say something bad about ‘conservatives’. You know they don’t mean people like you (/Unless they do!) and you’re not helping yourself at all by being unduly defensive.
Like it or not, you’re not going to get people to quit using the term in a way you find offensive >>
I hate liberals….like that?
| 245 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:18:31pm |
re: #239 Girth
What’s up with the downding Charles?
Unintentional — I must have clicked accidentally. I reversed it.
| 247 |
Girth Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:18:49pm |
re: #242 albusteve
math is teh hard…give the guy a mulligan
Sorry, I can’t, my degree is in math, it’s against my nature.
| 248 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:19:04pm |
re: #240 freetoken
One thing to think about - how about you being the interlocutor?
For instance, it might be interesting to see you grill John McWhorter for his fondness of Behe and ID. Another idea would be for you to dialog with your friend at True/Slant about how the RR and the right-wing are covering up for people like RSM.
Good ideas! I’ll mention them to my Bloggingheads contact.
| 251 |
windsagio Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:20:28pm |
re: #237 albusteve
There should be some long-range planning involved. I’ve said it a million times I know, but its worth repeating. The deal the Republican party made back then was selling out the future for the present. I think Obama was selling out the present for the Future, or more people would have gone for (pre-affair) Edwards or Clinton.
Altho’, I admit, you can afford longterm planning when you’re essentially guaranteed a win anyways (like the dems in 2008)
re: #244 albusteve
Exactly! I hate some liberals too! Mainly PETA bastards, ‘Debunking White’ retards, and Terrorist Eugene communists!
| 252 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:20:36pm |
re: #238 metrolibertarian
I think a Star of David with the pyramid with the hovering eye in the center of the Star of David to show how Charles is actually a pawn of the New World Order Illuminati Jews.
If we’re going to go that route, perhaps we should instead make the Bara-dor the backdrop, complete with the Eye of Soros in the background.
/
| 253 |
recusancy Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:21:26pm |
re: #240 freetoken
One thing to think about - how about you being the interlocutor?
For instance, it might be interesting to see you grill John McWhorter for his fondness of Behe and ID. Another idea would be for you to dialog with your friend at True/Slant about how the RR and the right-wing are covering up for people like RSM.
McWhorter’s an ID’r? Ughh.. I was kind of started to like him.
| 254 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:21:32pm |
re: #249 laZardo
PIMF on forgetting to delete a bracket.
@DarkFalcon: Osama Bin Laden’s cave?
Nah, even wingnuts don’t think Charles is actually pro-terrorist. Yet.
| 255 |
Olsonist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:22:34pm |
re: #237 albusteve
they won elections, just like the far left threw in with a moderate (heh) BO…it’s all about votes, nothing else counts
That’s almost right. First, you’re right that there are coalitions and that the coalition that got Obama elected is responsible for him. But then coalitions get something for their pains.
In the Reagan/Bush years, the SoCons got lip service at best. In the W years, the FiCons got their stuff (tax cuts for the rich) and the SoCons got as much as they could get. And there was a nice loud war going on to make sure no one noticed. Even the war didn’t register as deficit but went straight to debt.
| 256 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:23:09pm |
re: #251 windsagio
There should be some long-range planning involved. I’ve said it a million times I know, but its worth repeating. The deal the Republican party made back then was selling out the future for the present. I think Obama was selling out the present for the Future, or more people would have gone for (pre-affair) Edwards or Clinton.
Altho’, I admit, you can afford longterm planning when you’re essentially guaranteed a win anyways (like the dems in 2008)
re: #244 albusteve
Exactly! I hate some liberals too! Mainly PETA bastards, ‘Debunking White’ retards, and Terrorist Eugene communists!
long range planning in this country is exactly 4 years…it’s a nonpartisan curse we have to live with…but I get your point
| 257 |
iceweasel Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:23:29pm |
re: #232 Olsonist
I think in the Reagan and Bush senior days, the SoCons were the crazy uncle in the attic. Since the W years, the FiCons are now the spinster aunt.
Reagan made an unholy alliance with the so-cons and religious right in order to form a winning coalition. The RR has felt cheated all these years, because neither Reagan nor Bush Sr gave them what they wanted.
For years the GOP blew the culture war dogwhistle at election time and the Religious Right turned out faithfully, only to see the issue that got them to the polls (teh ghey! Abortion! etc) dropped like a hot potato once the GOP got its votes.
When W was elected, they were over the moon with joy— here was one of their own at last, they thought. They expected to see some of their agenda enacted.
And it never happened. The culture wars are over, and they lost.
They’re even losing their own battles from within. Younger fundamentalist christians don’t hate and fear gays like they did. Some fundamentalist churches are even allied with AGW groups, because they reject the dominionist principles and believe that God has given them a duty to be good stewards of the earth.
And now the religious right is angry, and that coalition the GOP formed back in the 80’s has come back to bite the GOP in the ass. Their pet lunatics are running the party now.
That’s also why we’re seeing so many of the old 80’s moral majority actors back on stage. Operation rescue, randall terry. And so on.
| 258 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:24:06pm |
re: #209 laZardo
Conservative ‘values’ may work in family or community units, but they have no place on the national stage.
I disagree. They do have a place, but it seems the party that touts them the most does not understand conservative values, and wants nothing to do with them. All the while claiming the mantle of conservatism.
These modern day theocrats and pseudo-totalitarians know nothing of conservatism. It is nothing more than a recognizable buzz word for them to pin their rhetoric upon, to better pander for votes, money, and power. The same goes for the word liberalism.
As you and many others have argued, these words have lost their true meaning for average people, and I can not at all disagree. The truth of that is painfully obvious. But I will shout and stamp my feet for my position regardless.
| 259 |
What, me worry? Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:24:26pm |
re: #255 Olsonist
That’s almost right. First, you’re right that there are coalitions and that the coalition that got Obama elected is responsible for him. But then coalitions get something for their pains.
In the Reagan/Bush years, the SoCons got lip service at best. In the W years, the FiCons got their stuff (tax cuts for the rich) and the SoCons got as much as they could get. And there was a nice loud war going on to make sure no one noticed. Even the war didn’t register as deficit but went straight to debt.
Pretty perceptive of you, grasshopper.
| 260 |
freetoken Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:24:56pm |
re: #248 Charles
The lack of introspection… nay, the abhorrence to introspection, on the part of the RR/TeaPartiers/paleo-right is a telling sign of the cultish, absurd nature of those movements.
The ability to (analytically, cooly) criticize oneself if, IMO, the telling sign between someone who is reasonable and rational from someone who is working out an emotional struggle.
You could do a whole diavlog on the the Malkin/Freeper/Beck self-delusional nature and their unwillingness to even admit the most glaring of their faults when exposed. RSM being a case in point, but there are others.
That there are these cultish backwaters (not just on the “right”) is an area that hasn’t been explored well enough, I think.
| 261 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:25:33pm |
re: #240 freetoken
One thing to think about - how about you being the interlocutor?
For instance, it might be interesting to see you grill John McWhorter for his fondness of Behe and ID. Another idea would be for you to dialog with your friend at True/Slant about how the RR and the right-wing are covering up for people like RSM.
I think that’s a REALLY good idea!
| 262 |
windsagio Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:25:36pm |
re: #256 albusteve
I’m not quite as cynical as you are I think, but thank you :) Normally we can’t even get this close to detente’.
And with that I have to go to work. If I’m not there and theres a fire (or a seizure), there’ll be hell to pay!
| 263 |
metrolibertarian Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:26:05pm |
re: #254 Dark_Falcon
Nah, even wingnuts don’t think Charles is actually pro-terrorist. Yet.
I believe Pamela Geller implied that Charles was a pro terrorist “infiltrator” or some such nonsense already.
| 264 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:26:12pm |
re: #255 Olsonist
That’s almost right. First, you’re right that there are coalitions and that the coalition that got Obama elected is responsible for him. But then coalitions get something for their pains.
In the Reagan/Bush years, the SoCons got lip service at best. In the W years, the FiCons got their stuff (tax cuts for the rich) and the SoCons got as much as they could get. And there was a nice loud war going on to make sure no one noticed. Even the war didn’t register as deficit but went straight to debt.
I don’t mind the debt of war, if one considers it an accomplishment, which I do…that stuff used t be partisan just a few short years ago…now look where we are with deficits and divisiveness…both are epic…I don’t have answers, just an observation
| 265 |
freetoken Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:27:47pm |
re: #253 recusancy
McWhorter’s an ID’r? Ughh.. I was kind of started to like him.
It’s now a notorious BH event, causing two of their bigger names - Sean Carroll (the physicist) and Carl Zimmer to flounce off of BH.
Yes, BH had quite a stir up over ID, something which Conn might dismiss, but obviously one of this nations leading science journalists and one of the leading popularizers of theoretical physics thought worthy of making a big deal.
| 266 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:28:42pm |
re: #263 metrolibertarian
Heh, you still read the shrieking harpy?
I bet she’s glad someone does!
Still, she’s getting linked at Lucianne.
Appalls me every time I see her there.
Can’t believe she’s seen as credible. Anywhere.
| 267 |
iceweasel Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:28:52pm |
re: #240 freetoken
One thing to think about - how about you being the interlocutor?
For instance, it might be interesting to see you grill John McWhorter for his fondness of Behe and ID. Another idea would be for you to dialog with your friend at True/Slant about how the RR and the right-wing are covering up for people like RSM.
Oh that would be so cool! Barrett Brown! or I would love to see Charles and john cole on together, just talking about anything pretty much.
BTW, agree with you on those Althouse vids there. Some of them made the rounds of the lefty blogosphere. Much mockery was made.
| 268 |
metrolibertarian Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:29:48pm |
re: #266 Floral Giraffe
Heh, you still read the shrieking harpy?
I bet she’s glad someone does!
Still, she’s getting linked at Lucianne.
Appalls me every time I see her there.
Can’t believe she’s seen as credible. Anywhere.
This was earlier in the year, I believe Charles had a post mentioning this ridiculous assertion.
| 269 |
Olsonist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:30:21pm |
re: #264 albusteve
I don’t mind the debt of war, if one considers it an accomplishment, which I do…that stuff used t be partisan just a few short years ago…now look where we are with deficits and divisiveness…both are epic…I don’t have answers, just an observation
Yes, but Obama is treating Americans as adults by putting the war back on the books. It makes the deficit larger but it’s honest accounting.
| 270 |
recusancy Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:31:06pm |
re: #265 freetoken
It’s now a notorious BH event, causing two of their bigger names - Sean Carroll (the physicist) and Carl Zimmer to flounce off of BH.
Yes, BH had quite a stir up over ID, something which Conn might dismiss, but obviously one of this nations leading science journalists and one of the leading popularizers of theoretical physics thought worthy of making a big deal.
When was this? I haven’t been going there much since the ‘08 election.
| 271 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:31:59pm |
re: #267 iceweasel
Oh that would be so cool! Barrett Brown! or I would love to see Charles and john cole on together, just talking about anything pretty much.
BTW, agree with you on those Althouse vids there. Some of them made the rounds of the lefty blogosphere. Much mockery was made.
B Brown is a jem, but I doubt he has designs for a Truth Coalition…it’s a killer these days..the far right could wipe him away?
| 272 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:32:18pm |
re: #269 Olsonist
Yes, but Obama is treating Americans as adults by putting the war back on the books. It makes the deficit larger but it’s honest accounting.
While at the same time treating them like children unable to make their own decisions on health care, thus requiring yet more spending we can’t afford.
| 273 |
Girth Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:32:21pm |
re: #267 iceweasel
Oh that would be so cool! Barrett Brown! or I would love to see Charles and john cole on together, just talking about anything pretty much.
BTW, agree with you on those Althouse vids there. Some of them made the rounds of the lefty blogosphere. Much mockery was made.
A special edition of This Week in Blog where Charles spends the whole time asking Matt Lewis to defend all the crazy shit that is getting mainstreamed by the wingnuts these days. Lewis is a much more honest conservative than Carroll.
| 274 |
freetoken Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:32:34pm |
BTW, the Heritage Foundation is Conn’s employer, and as such it makes sense (though I don’t know if Conn was conscious of this) for Conn to try and downplay the problems of Creationism.
For background, here is a search for “Darwin” on the Heritage site:
[Link: search.heritage.org…]
Not surprisingly, they promoter ID’ers.
| 275 |
What, me worry? Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:33:17pm |
re: #258 Slumbering Behemoth
I disagree. They do have a place, but it seems the party that touts them the most does not understand conservative values, and wants nothing to do with them. All the while claiming the mantle of conservatism.
These modern day theocrats and pseudo-totalitarians know nothing of conservatism. It is nothing more than a recognizable buzz word for them to pin their rhetoric upon, to better pander for votes, money, and power. The same goes for the word liberalism.
As you and many others have argued, these words have lost their true meaning for average people, and I can not at all disagree. The truth of that is painfully obvious. But I will shout and stamp my feet for my position regardless.
I’m confused though. You said Republican isn’t the same as Conservative, I think upthread? What would you consider are your conservative values that differ from other “conservatives”.
I have no problem calling myself a liberal, here or anywhere. I’ve done so here for years. Does it sum up everything I believe in? No, or I wouldn’t be posting on this board for so long. But it gives you a basis for what I think. I think that’s true for those labels, conservative and liberal. It doesn’t mean you’re any one thing.
I’m more aggressive in foreign policy than most liberals, probably the largest difference. Outside of that I’m a spend-o-crat Commie! woohoo (I’m not but I like to feed the beast now and then.)
| 276 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:33:54pm |
re: #241 windsagio
I guess my point more is that its not worth your time getting up in arms each time people say something bad about ‘conservatives’. You know they don’t mean people like you (/Unless they do!) and you’re not helping yourself at all by being unduly defensive.
I have not been getting up in arms, nor have I been unduly defensive. I’m pretty sure that Lazardo knows where I was coming from in my response, and that I bare no ill will or resentment towards him. I am simply being declarative in my political/social stance, opposite of those from both the right and left wings who would twist the meaning of conservatism for their own ends.
Like it or not, you’re not going to get people to quit using the term in a way you find offensive >>
It is not that I find the usage offensive, though that argument can be made. I find the usage incorrect, inaccurate, and sometimes willfully ignorant.
| 277 |
recusancy Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:33:58pm |
re: #273 Girth
A special edition of This Week in Blog where Charles spends the whole time asking Matt Lewis to defend all the crazy shit that is getting mainstreamed by the wingnuts these days. Lewis is a much more honest conservative than Carroll.
Really?? Matt’s a talking point dispenser.
| 278 |
Olsonist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:34:21pm |
re: #272 Dark_Falcon
I’m sorry. What decision about health care are you talking about? Right now I can’t make the decision about which health insurer to choose because I have a pre-existing condition so I’m not exactly sure what decision it is that you’re speaking to.
| 279 |
What, me worry? Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:34:38pm |
re: #274 freetoken
BTW, the Heritage Foundation is Conn’s employer, and as such it makes sense (though I don’t know if Conn was conscious of this) for Conn to try and downplay the problems of Creationism.
For background, here is a search for “Darwin” on the Heritage site:
[Link: search.heritage.org…]
Not surprisingly, they promoter ID’ers.
I think Carroll said he was a creationist, if I’m not mistaken, just not for religious reasons.
| 280 |
recusancy Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:35:45pm |
re: #279 marjoriemoon
I think Carroll said he was a creationist, if I’m not mistaken, just not for religious reasons.
He said he believed in evolution in the vid with Charles.
| 281 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:36:08pm |
re: #269 Olsonist
Yes, but Obama is treating Americans as adults by putting the war back on the books. It makes the deficit larger but it’s honest accounting.
from one POTUS to the next, you inherit the economy and the debt…sometimes it’s just not best to quadruple the debt in the first year of a new admin…toss in health care and the problems the donks are having and you have some seriously bad politics…beside the war debt that is
| 282 |
What, me worry? Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:36:15pm |
re: #280 recusancy
He said he believed in evolution in the vid with Charles.
Maybe I was thinking of the pro-life thing then.
| 283 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:36:30pm |
re: #275 marjoriemoon
I’m more aggressive in foreign policy than most liberals, probably the largest difference. Outside of that I’m a spend-o-crat Commie! woohoo (I’m not but I like to feed the beast now and then.)
“Ahm the last living Demmycrat! Tax and spend! Tax and spend!”
(I love The Simpsons!)
| 284 |
iceweasel Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:36:40pm |
re: #277 recusancy
Really?? Matt’s a talking point dispenser.
I think honest conservative may be relative here. As in, compared to Carroll.
(Not familiar with Lewis myself— but I love the idea proposed)
| 285 |
What, me worry? Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:37:37pm |
hehehe Don’t know how’d you pull off being a Creationist without being religious. Kinda silly uh.
| 286 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:38:17pm |
re: #283 SanFranciscoZionist
“Ahm the last living Demmycrat! Tax and spend! Tax and spend!”
(I love The Simpsons!)
Cletus, is that you?
/
| 287 |
Girth Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:39:46pm |
re: #277 recusancy
Really?? Matt’s a talking point dispenser.
I don’t think so. I think he has honest convictions and does his best to defend or explain what his side is saying. Even if you disagree, like iceweasel just said compared to Carroll it’s no contest.
I have to admit I stopped watching TWIB several months ago though.
| 288 |
freetoken Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:40:46pm |
re: #280 recusancy
Yes, he clearly said that, but even more so he worked to downplay that creationism has any real impact in the important (to him) matters of the day.
As Charles pointed out, creationism is a signature issue by which to determine a person’s worldview. Since Heritage is a proponent of ID, even if Conn accepts evolution he can’t come out and say it is an important issue because if it were then someone (say Charles) could ask Conn why he is still at Heritage.
| 289 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:43:05pm |
re: #286 Dark_Falcon
Cletus, is that you?
/
They meet this guy on Alcatraz, IIRC, after they’ve all been imprisoned because Bart mooned the flag.
The same episode has one of my other favorite Simpsons lines, as they escape from Alcatraz:
Lisa: “We’ll swim to San Francisco!”
Homer: “I’m not made of money! We’ll swim to Oakland.”
| 290 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:44:14pm |
re: #289 SanFranciscoZionist
They meet this guy on Alcatraz, IIRC, after they’ve all been imprisoned because Bart mooned the flag.
The same episode has one of my other favorite Simpsons lines, as they escape from Alcatraz:
Lisa: “We’ll swim to San Francisco!”
Homer: “I’m not made of money! We’ll swim to Oakland.”
Classic, even if it is a later episode.
| 291 |
iceweasel Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:44:24pm |
re: #288 freetoken
Yes, he clearly said that, but even more so he worked to downplay that creationism has any real impact in the important (to him) matters of the day.
As Charles pointed out, creationism is a signature issue by which to determine a person’s worldview. Since Heritage is a proponent of ID, even if Conn accepts evolution he can’t come out and say it is an important issue because if it were then someone (say Charles) could ask Conn why he is still at Heritage.
And for future reference, next time he brings up the issue of the SPLC having too much money (waaah! waaah!) it might be fun to ask him about the Heritage Foundation’s funding.
| 292 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:45:12pm |
re: #275 marjoriemoon
I’m confused though. You said Republican isn’t the same as Conservative, I think upthread? What would you consider are your conservative values that differ from other “conservatives”.
I am not entirely clear on the intent of your question, but I will hazard a guess and say this:
I see nothing at all conservative in the position that a certain demographic of people should be disallowed the privilege of monogamous marriage simply because of the mate they choose.
| 293 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:45:52pm |
re: #288 freetoken
Yes, he clearly said that, but even more so he worked to downplay that creationism has any real impact in the important (to him) matters of the day.
I’ve seen this ploy used over and over here at LGF — and it’s always the creationists who use it. It’s a very transparent attempt at misdirection.
And the fact that the Heritage Foundation is an enthusiastic promoter of creationism gives the lie to Carroll’s attempt to minimize the issue.
| 294 |
Gus Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:46:31pm |
re: #291 iceweasel
And for future reference, next time he brings up the issue of the SPLC having too much money (waaah! waaah!) it might be fun to ask him about the Heritage Foundation’s funding.
Holy smokes look at this:
2006 Budget
In calendar year 2006 the Heritage Foundation spent over $40.5 million on its operations. That year the foundation raised over $25 million from individual contributors and $13.1 million from foundations.
| 295 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:48:06pm |
conservatism…the basic three legged stool, small fed govt, as few taxes as it takes to keep the ball rolling via strong capitalism and free markets, and a stout military/security aspect…all else should be booted down to the states….social aspects of peoples lives should be dealt with at the state and local level….we have the Constitution and the USSC to decide right from wrong…it’s easy and prosperous and we can get it done without the burden of excessive federal intrusion…I’m a simplicity nerd, but simplicity is the ultimate sophistication
| 297 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:52:24pm |
re: #296 Olsonist
So was Reagan a conservative?
By albusteve’s standards (which mirror my own), yes.
| 298 |
recusancy Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:53:17pm |
re: #296 Olsonist
So was Reagan a conservative?
Culturally yes. Fiscally no. (you have to cut spending if you’re going to lower taxes and he only did one of the two)
| 299 |
What, me worry? Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:53:28pm |
re: #292 Slumbering Behemoth
I am not entirely clear on the intent of your question, but I will hazard a guess and say this:
I see nothing at all conservative in the position that a certain demographic of people should be disallowed the privilege of monogamous marriage simply because of the mate they choose.
No intent, just was curious :)
That’s good to know. I personally feel that social conservatives aren’t all that social to begin with.
| 300 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:53:30pm |
re: #296 Olsonist
Reagan was a republican.
| 301 |
metrolibertarian Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:53:51pm |
Interesting graphical representation of the “lack” of consensus among scientists regarding global warming:
[Link: www.informationisbeautiful.net…]
| 302 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:54:26pm |
re: #296 Olsonist
So was Reagan a conservative?
as much as he could be…it’s tough out there for any ideology, and the best plan quickly goes to hell….BO is finding that out
| 303 |
carlitos Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:57:52pm |
I wish this site would detail ‘racist motivations’ from both the left and right wing.
| 304 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:58:33pm |
re: #300 Slumbering Behemoth
Reagan was a republican.
he and Harry Truman would have gotten along fine…couple of honest, no shit guys on separate sides of the carpet….those days are long gone
| 305 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:59:02pm |
re: #299 marjoriemoon
No intent, just was curious :)
I meant that I was not entirely clear on what you intended to ask. I did not mean to imply dubious intent on your part. Poor wording on my part, I guess.
That’s good to know. I personally feel that social conservatives aren’t all that social to begin with.
+1 for the laugh. Neither social nor conservative. A walking, talking embodiment of contradiction.
| 306 |
metrolibertarian Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:59:39pm |
re: #303 carlitos
I wish this site would detail ‘racist motivations’ from both the left and right wing.
Yeah, like Sonia Sotomayer and her reverse racism!
/
Please give me a break. When the left wing makes idiotic statements regarding Israel in general or the Jews specifically, LGF rightly shines a spotlight on the nonsense. But please, which other “racist motivations” from the left wing is LGF ignoring?
| 308 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:02:01pm |
re: #303 carlitos
Interesting use of a non sequitur, much-less-than part-timer. What prompted that statement?
| 309 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:02:05pm |
re: #303 carlitos
I wish this site would detail ‘racist motivations’ from both the left and right wing.
There’s no need to wish. Read the site regularly and all will be revealed. We cover it all the time. There’s plenty of discussion.
| 310 |
recusancy Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:02:05pm |
re: #306 metrolibertarian
Yeah, like Sonia Sotomayer and her reverse racism!
/
Please give me a break. When the left wing makes idiotic statements regarding Israel in general or the Jews specifically, LGF rightly shines a spotlight on the nonsense. But please, which other “racist motivations” from the left wing is LGF ignoring?
What idiotic statement has the left wing made about “Jews specifically”?
| 311 |
What, me worry? Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:03:28pm |
re: #305 Slumbering Behemoth
+1 for the laugh. Neither social nor conservative. A walking, talking embodiment of contradiction.
Keep em guessing I always say!
I’m pretty much liberal in my thinking, except like I say, a believe in a strong defense. I also don’t understand all this fiscal conservative talk. I’ve never met a soul who doesn’t believe in fiscal responsibility. Everyone wants our money to be used wisely. I do agree we have difference about what wise means.
| 312 |
Girth Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:03:32pm |
re: #303 carlitos
You’re right, I forgot about Obama’s hatred of white culture (whatever the fuck that is)./
| 313 |
carlitos Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:04:32pm |
There are a whole slew of blue dog democrats that have similar issues to those of southern republicans. I could be wrong, but I’m not aware of any of these gents being referenced here. In the telecast in this post, Charles was adamant about the “racist motivations” of Democrats (like the Democrat who forwarded the Obama shoe-shine email), and all up in the Burchers and tea-party folks.
Fair point on Sotomayor and the left vis a vis Israel. And I appreciate the posts on the EU “anti-jihad” types. I just resent the broad “racist” brush being applied to some on the ‘right’ here at LGF.
| 314 |
laZardo Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:04:42pm |
re: #258 Slumbering Behemoth
I disagree. They do have a place, but it seems the party that touts them the most does not understand conservative values, and wants nothing to do with them. All the while claiming the mantle of conservatism.
These modern day theocrats and pseudo-totalitarians know nothing of conservatism. It is nothing more than a recognizable buzz word for them to pin their rhetoric upon, to better pander for votes, money, and power. The same goes for the word liberalism.
As you and many others have argued, these words have lost their true meaning for average people, and I can not at all disagree. The truth of that is painfully obvious. But I will shout and stamp my feet for my position regardless.
Theocracy is conservatism, even reactionary, in the case of the merging of God and State which has been around since ancient civilizations and can even be found in places like Iran even today. It’s a path that naturally leads to authoritarianism.
| 315 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:05:08pm |
re: #310 recusancy
What idiotic statement has the left wing made about “Jews specifically”?
The Protocols of the Daily Kos
There are dozens of installments of the Protocols of the Daily Kos theme here on LGF. They used to have quite a problem over there.
| 316 |
metrolibertarian Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:05:50pm |
re: #310 recusancy
What idiotic statement has the left wing made about “Jews specifically”?
Like Cynthia McKinney and George Galloway’s nonsense about Gaza in the past year. Hugo Chavez’s cozying up to Ahmadinejad. These people represent the far left whose rhetoric often targets the Jews. And hell, Susie Madrack of Crooks and Liars all but said America’s relationship with Israel and the Jews is responsible for 9/11.
| 317 |
carlitos Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:05:59pm |
der, “racist motivations” of Republicans, not Democrats. Posting while doing laundry.
| 318 |
Gus Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:05:59pm |
re: #313 carlitos
Could you explain how one can apply a broad brush to some of a group?
| 320 |
What, me worry? Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:06:18pm |
re: #313 carlitos
There are a whole slew of blue dog democrats that have similar issues to those of southern republicans. I could be wrong, but I’m not aware of any of these gents being referenced here. In the telecast in this post, Charles was adamant about the “racist motivations” of Democrats (like the Democrat who forwarded the Obama shoe-shine email), and all up in the Burchers and tea-party folks.
Fair point on Sotomayor and the left vis a vis Israel. And I appreciate the posts on the EU “anti-jihad” types. I just resent the broad “racist” brush being applied to some on the ‘right’ here at LGF.
I’m not convinced that Democrats in general accept Blue Dogs as “one of the tribe”.
As to the last bit, wherever the shoe fits…
| 321 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:07:07pm |
re: #313 carlitos
There are a whole slew of blue dog democrats that have similar issues to those of southern republicans. I could be wrong, but I’m not aware of any of these gents being referenced here. In the telecast in this post, Charles was adamant about the “racist motivations” of Democrats (like the Democrat who forwarded the Obama shoe-shine email), and all up in the Burchers and tea-party folks.
Fair point on Sotomayor and the left vis a vis Israel. And I appreciate the posts on the EU “anti-jihad” types. I just resent the broad “racist” brush being applied to some on the ‘right’ here at LGF.
take care of yourself and other onions won’t matter will they?…if you are clean, a broad brush will miss you….nobody speaks for everybody
| 322 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:08:13pm |
re: #313 carlitos
What ‘broad brush’ do you speak of? No one here goes after the National Review or even the Club For Growth, since both never say anything that could be seen as racist (though the CFG has serious problems, racism is not one of them). The only organizations that face the charge of racism are those we can tie actual racist words or deeds to.
| 323 |
iceweasel Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:08:15pm |
re: #294 Gus 802
Exactly, my friend. Who the fuck is Carroll to raise issues about the SPLC’s funding? At least they use the money they raise for a good purpose.
Heritage? Please! It exists to disseminate wingnut propaganda, push ID and creationism, and provide wingnut welfare— i.e., money to their chosen shills.
| 324 |
What, me worry? Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:08:17pm |
re: #321 albusteve
take care of yourself and other onions won’t matter will they?…if you are clean, a broad brush will miss you…nobody speaks for everybody
I prefer my onions grilled, thank you very much.
| 325 |
generalsparky Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:08:18pm |
re: #311 marjoriemoon
Keep em guessing I always say!
I’m pretty much liberal in my thinking, except like I say, a believe in a strong defense. I also don’t understand all this fiscal conservative talk. I’ve never met a soul who doesn’t believe in fiscal responsibility. Everyone wants our money to be used wisely. I do agree we have difference about what wise means.
I have met very few folks that actually believe in fiscal responsibility~for themselves or the government. Most people I know are in debt up to their eyeballs and have very little savings. Even the solidly 6 figure salary couples I know have huge mortgages, at least 2 car notes and a good deal of credit card debt.
| 326 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:08:39pm |
re: #321 albusteve
take care of yourself and other onions won’t matter will they?…if you are clean, a broad brush will miss you…nobody speaks for everybody
what?…onions DON’T MATTER?
| 327 |
Girth Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:08:47pm |
Texas Tech just pulled ahead in the last few minutes to win the Alamo Bowl. Good for those kids being able to put aside all that’s happened this week and play the way they did, even though I was pulling for Michigan State.
| 328 |
carlitos Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:08:49pm |
re: #309 Killgore Trout
I have read this site nearly every day for about 6 years.
| 329 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:09:16pm |
re: #321 albusteve
take care of yourself and other onions won’t matter will they?…if you are clean, a broad brush will miss you…nobody speaks for everybody
Quite Concur.
| 330 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:09:21pm |
re: #324 marjoriemoon
I prefer my onions grilled, thank you very much.
saw that…some people are just stupid
| 331 |
Olsonist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:09:34pm |
re: #320 marjoriemoon
It’s a coalition. Pelosi has a much tougher problem than say Gingrich had. The Republicans vote in a block much more naturally than do the Dems.
| 332 |
laZardo Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:09:44pm |
re: #324 marjoriemoon
I prefer my onions grilled, thank you very much.
I like onion rings when they actually have onion in them. :D
| 333 |
metrolibertarian Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:09:48pm |
re: #327 Girth
Texas Tech just pulled ahead in the last few minutes to win the Alamo Bowl. Good for those kids being able to put aside all that’s happened this week and play the way they did, even though I was pulling for Michigan State.
Now how will glory hog worthless asshole Craig James take credit for this?
| 334 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:10:49pm |
re: #328 carlitos
I have read this site nearly every day for about 6 years.
Then you’re asking for something you’ve already been given.
| 335 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:11:10pm |
re: #317 carlitos
It’s hard for you to walk & chew gum at the same time…
| 336 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:11:47pm |
re: #313 carlitos
There are a whole slew of blue dog democrats that have similar issues to those of southern republicans.
Name one that fits into the context of your previous post.
| 337 |
Girth Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:11:49pm |
re: #333 metrolibertarian
Now how will glory hog worthless asshole Craig James take credit for this?
Don’t worry about that guy, I’m sure Mike Leach’s lawyers are already getting ready to file suit against James and ESPN.
| 339 |
recusancy Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:12:11pm |
re: #316 metrolibertarian
Like Cynthia McKinney and George Galloway’s nonsense about Gaza in the past year. Hugo Chavez’s cozying up to Ahmadinejad. These people represent the far left whose rhetoric often targets the Jews. And hell, Susie Madrack of Crooks and Liars all but said America’s relationship with Israel and the Jews is responsible for 9/11.
Oh… I didn’t know that you were talking about the mostly foreign left.
| 340 |
Olsonist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:12:31pm |
re: #332 laZardo
I like onion rings when they actually have onion in them. :D
We could never be friends.
| 341 |
Girth Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:13:16pm |
| 342 |
recusancy Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:13:50pm |
re: #338 albusteve
onions are like assholes…it’s true
Some are red some are white and they all smell?
| 344 |
What, me worry? Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:16:02pm |
re: #325 generalsparky
I have met very few folks that actually believe in fiscal responsibility~for themselves or the government. Most people I know are in debt up to their eyeballs and have very little savings. Even the solidly 6 figure salary couples I know have huge mortgages, at least 2 car notes and a good deal of credit card debt.
Oh yes, but the government should know how to spend my money even if I don’t!
| 345 |
Gus Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:16:04pm |
re: #323 iceweasel
Exactly, my friend. Who the fuck is Carroll to raise issues about the SPLC’s funding? At least they use the money they raise for a good purpose.
Heritage? Please! It exists to disseminate wingnut propaganda, push ID and creationism, and provide wingnut welfare— i.e., money to their chosen shills.
I hope Conn Carroll realizes that when he attacks the SPLC he’s joining hands with White-Alliance, the KKK, Stormfront and other fascist organizations. The reality is that Massresistance’s Brian Camenker is a paranoid bombastic-blowhard-bigot and we don’t even need the SPLC to tell us that.
Found out early last year (almost said this year) that Heritage does promote ID and creationism. I was mistaken in thinking that they were a secular organization.
| 346 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:16:31pm |
re: #332 laZardo
I like onion rings when they actually have onion in them. :D
I prefer onion strings, myself. They make a good substitute for french fires.
| 347 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:16:51pm |
re: #314 laZardo
Theocracy is conservatism, even reactionary, in the case of the merging of God and State which has been around since ancient civilizations and can even be found in places like Iran even today. It’s a path that naturally leads to authoritarianism.
Aw. Hell. Naw.
Theocracy is a form of totalitarianism, it has nothing to do with conservatism. It (theocracy) can be reactionary, which is a trait of the far-right spectrum. Still not conservative, though.
| 348 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:17:07pm |
re: #325 generalsparky
I have met very few folks that actually believe in fiscal responsibility~for themselves or the government. Most people I know are in debt up to their eyeballs and have very little savings. Even the solidly 6 figure salary couples I know have huge mortgages, at least 2 car notes and a good deal of credit card debt.
Well, I was going to down ding, but I decided to reply, instead.
There are MANY people who believe and practise fiscal responsibility. I’m sorry you don’t know any of them.
I know lots of them. I can count 6 couples/families who are debt free, owe a mortgage, that they can afford, but are otherwise debt free.
Not including family members.
| 349 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:17:50pm |
re: #346 Dark_Falcon
I prefer onion strings, myself. They make a good substitute for french fires.
bloomin onions are delicious
| 350 |
iceweasel Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:17:59pm |
re: #300 Slumbering Behemoth
Reagan was a republican.
Yeah, and Reagan would be disgusted by his own party now, especially the use to which they’ve put his eleventh commandment, “thou shalt not criticise a fellow republican”.
Would the GOP even run Reagan today? You have to wonder.
The problem isn’t that people are unfairly using the word ‘conservative’ in talking about the right today. The problem is that we have only two major political parties in the US, and the one which was once the home of conservatives has decided it’s the party of wingnuts and left you behind.
What was the old reagan quote? “I didn’t leave the Democratic Party, it left me”? I think he’d be saying the same thing about the GOP now.
| 351 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:18:13pm |
| 352 |
laZardo Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:18:15pm |
re: #346 Dark_Falcon
I prefer onion strings, myself. They make a good substitute for french fires.
You like it spicy?
| 353 |
carlitos Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:18:17pm |
re: #336 Slumbering Behemoth
Uh, Senator Robert Byrd? My wife and I heard him say the N Word on live TV.
| 354 |
What, me worry? Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:18:59pm |
I think fiscal conservative talk is all pie-in-the-sky. Like Unicorns and Faeries. Fun to believe in, but not really based on reality.
No one has been fiscally conservative in the White House since I’ve been alive anyway almost 50 fucking years.
| 355 |
metrolibertarian Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:20:25pm |
re: #354 marjoriemoon
Coolidge was the last “fiscal conservative” Republican. I’d argue Bill Clinton was the most fiscally conservative President this country has had in 78 years.
| 356 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:20:42pm |
re: #353 carlitos
Uh, Senator Robert Byrd? My wife and I heard him say the N Word on live TV.
Gee, if you’ve been reading every day for 6 years, then how did you miss this post?
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]
Or this one?
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]
You were saying something about Robert Byrd?
| 357 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:20:42pm |
re: #349 albusteve
bloomin onions are delicious
Onions are blooming delicious.
( I worry about your cholesterol, steve…)
| 359 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:20:56pm |
re: #338 albusteve
They both make your eyes water?
| 360 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:21:19pm |
re: #354 marjoriemoon
I think fiscal conservative talk is all pie-in-the-sky. Like Unicorns and Faeries. Fun to believe in, but not really based on reality.
No one has been fiscally conservative in the White House since I’ve been alive anyway almost 50 fucking years.
Bill Clinton didn’t do too bad…go figure…the health of the economy reflects the health of the middle masses…centrist, works every time
| 361 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:21:54pm |
re: #356 Charles
Reading, is not comprehension.
The reading part is suspect, IMHO.
| 362 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:22:18pm |
| 363 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:22:23pm |
re: #357 Floral Giraffe
Onions are blooming delicious.
( I worry about your cholesterol, steve…)
it’s normal as are my liver enzymes…..bwahahaha!
| 364 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:22:29pm |
| 365 |
Olsonist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:22:31pm |
re: #350 iceweasel
What was the old reagan quote? “I didn’t leave the Democratic Party, it left me”? I think he’d be saying the same thing about the GOP now.
I don’t want to put words in Charles’ mouth; he’s fully capable of that. But that sounds like what he said with Why I Parted Ways With The Right.
| 366 |
laZardo Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:22:52pm |
re: #347 Slumbering Behemoth
Aw. Hell. Naw.
Theocracy is a form of totalitarianism, it has nothing to do with conservatism. It (theocracy) can be reactionary, which is a trait of the far-right spectrum. Still not conservative, though.
Even the classically “socialist” Soviet and Maoist regimes co-opted this tactic to impose their power. In effect, nothing really changed from the old times except the name of the center of the cult of worship. Everything else, was, well, conserved.
| 367 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:23:29pm |
re: #353 carlitos
A point of fact that has been discussed here. Next?
| 368 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:23:35pm |
| 369 |
freetoken Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:23:47pm |
re: #354 marjoriemoon
I think fiscal conservative talk is all pie-in-the-sky. Like Unicorns and Faeries.
It does appear to be more of a rallying point than anything else.
No one, when they get to Washington, can change the past, even Luap Nor. Indeed, Luap Nor can continue in his silliness exactly because none of the others go along with him.
We are all Keynesians, to some degree. Even those who protest Keynes live in a Keynesian world from which they can’t escape except by becoming survivalists in the woods, and that so few of them go to that extreme tells me that they aren’t serious.
| 370 |
What, me worry? Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:23:56pm |
re: #355 metrolibertarian
Coolidge was the last “fiscal conservative” Republican. I’d argue Bill Clinton was the most fiscally conservative President this country has had in 78 years.
I thought of Clinton the moment I hit the POST button heh.
I wish I understood economics better. Some say no president or administration has real control over the economy, but certainly the Fed has. Some point to Clinton and say he just got lucky in the dotcom economy. Maybe that’s true, but he did lower the deficit, unemployment and created non-techy jobs during his tenure. I don’t know what it would have looked like if it had NOT been for the tech boom.
| 372 |
carlitos Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:24:56pm |
I was just naming a southern Democrat with similar racial problems to some Republicans. Which was the question asked of me. I remember reading those posts about Robert Byrd, so that’s a fair point.
| 373 |
What, me worry? Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:25:03pm |
re: #360 albusteve
Bill Clinton didn’t do too bad…go figure…the health of the economy reflects the health of the middle masses…centrist, works every time
I appreciate you saying that, btw.
| 374 |
freetoken Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:26:15pm |
re: #370 marjoriemoon
I do think Clinton got lucky, inherited the post-cold war “peace dividend” and rode the rise of international business.
Nevertheless, he was part of the DLC, which were the group of Democrats who seemed more concerned with fiscal responsibility.
| 375 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:26:29pm |
re: #370 marjoriemoon
I thought of Clinton the moment I hit the POST button heh.
I wish I understood economics better. Some say no president or administration has real control over the economy, but certainly the Fed has. Some point to Clinton and say he just got lucky in the dotcom economy. Maybe that’s true, but he did lower the deficit, unemployment and created non-techy jobs during his tenure. I don’t know what it would have looked like if it had NOT been for the tech boom.
wrong, presidents do not create jobs, or control unemployment
| 376 |
carlitos Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:27:12pm |
| 377 |
generalsparky Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:27:17pm |
re: #348 Floral Giraffe
Well, I was going to down ding, but I decided to reply, instead.
There are MANY people who believe and practise fiscal responsibility. I’m sorry you don’t know any of them.
I know lots of them. I can count 6 couples/families who are debt free, owe a mortgage, that they can afford, but are otherwise debt free.
Not including family members.
I do know a handful of debt free folks too including my family. But I don’t even know 6 families and I would still consider that a pathetic number out of all the couples we know.
| 378 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:27:21pm |
re: #366 laZardo
Even the classically “socialist” Soviet and Maoist regimes co-opted this tactic to impose their power. In effect, nothing really changed from the old times except the name of the center of the cult of worship. Everything else, was, well, conserved.
A confusion of terms. Political conservative ideology is not equivalent to conservationist practice.
| 379 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:28:36pm |
re: #310 recusancy
What idiotic statement has the left wing made about “Jews specifically”?
Does Alice Walker count?
| 380 |
freetoken Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:28:48pm |
re: #375 albusteve
wrong, presidents do not create jobs, or control unemployment
Well, if you are talking about short term changes, I agree (except for the small changes that any leader can do, such as mediate in labor agreements, which obviously change employment in certain locales.) However, over time the executive’s policies do influence national and international economies.
| 381 |
What, me worry? Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:28:54pm |
re: #375 albusteve
wrong, presidents do not create jobs, or control unemployment
How you figure? Certainly road construction, park maintenance and the like. Government owned facilities, schools.
| 382 |
Olsonist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:30:18pm |
re: #374 freetoken
I do think Clinton got lucky, inherited the post-cold war “peace dividend” and rode the rise of international business.
Nevertheless, he was part of the DLC, which were the group of Democrats who seemed more concerned with fiscal responsibility.
Dems are historically actually fiscally conservative. But that means balancing taxes with spending. So they get dinged for raising taxes. And then the Reps get credit for cutting taxes.
| 383 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:30:22pm |
re: #363 albusteve
Your life, your choices. I wish you nothing but the best.
| 384 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:30:26pm |
re: #320 marjoriemoon
I’m not convinced that Democrats in general accept Blue Dogs as “one of the tribe”.
As to the last bit, wherever the shoe fits…
They run as a Democrat, I have to accept that what they do reflects on the party, even if I personally don’t like them. The Blue Dogs are a various bunch.
| 385 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:30:28pm |
legislation creates an environment for the economy to function…that is all…this downturn and the donk response is a perfect textbook example of how the economy will respond…and right now investors and small business are petrified with the Stimulus and now talk of even another ‘jobs stimulus’…all of which creates debt, taxes, and an unfavorable growth climate
| 386 |
recusancy Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:30:35pm |
re: #379 SanFranciscoZionist
Does Alice Walker count?
Maybe. I don’t know who that is. What’d she say?
| 387 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:30:50pm |
I’m quite tired now, so I’m going to turn in for the night, Talk to you folks in the late AM.
| 388 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:31:32pm |
re: #328 carlitos
I have read this site nearly every day for about 6 years.
And you didn’t say much until now because everything was OK?
| 389 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:31:35pm |
re: #303 carlitos
I wish this site would detail ‘racist motivations’ from both the left and right wing.
re: #372 carlitos
I was just naming a southern Democrat with similar racial problems to some Republicans. Which was the question asked of me. I remember reading those posts about Robert Byrd, so that’s a fair point.
You seem to have quickly lost touch with your own initial program. Perhaps you should reboot.
| 390 |
What, me worry? Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:32:02pm |
re: #384 SanFranciscoZionist
They run as a Democrat, I have to accept that what they do reflects on the party, even if I personally don’t like them. The Blue Dogs are a various bunch.
I thought for a time that I belonged there, but after taking a cursory peek, I thought better of it.
| 391 |
metrolibertarian Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:32:19pm |
re: #375 albusteve
wrong, presidents do not create jobs, or control unemployment
In the immediate short run, of course not. However policies pursued by the President do create jobs or lead to unemployment. I’d say Clinton’s gleeful partnering with the far right in the repeal of Glass-Steagal is very responsible for current unemployment as a result of the financial sector cratering and the resulting collapse across the board in the economy.
| 392 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:32:20pm |
re: #383 Floral Giraffe
Your life, your choices. I wish you nothing but the best.
I’m safea nd sound and functioning with one leg…it’s hard but not the end of my world
| 393 |
WindHorse Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:32:43pm |
re: #381 marjoriemoon
Congress controls the purse strings….Presidents set policy…. if there is a sympathetic Congress in place, they will strive to do what the President wants…. but he/she has nothing to do with it beyond policy….
| 394 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:32:54pm |
re: #341 Girth
Everyone’s got an onion?
All God’s children have onions.
And I just learned on FSTDT that starfish are God’s chosen species.
| 395 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:33:33pm |
re: #377 generalsparky
It’s a life style choice.
There is a LOT of disruption, due to unemployment.
But, there are still a SIGNIFICANT number of folks, able to weather this fiscal downturn. It’s a choice, backed by actions. A long term choice, I might add.
| 396 |
Gus Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:33:45pm |
re: #323 iceweasel
Exactly, my friend. Who the fuck is Carroll to raise issues about the SPLC’s funding? At least they use the money they raise for a good purpose.
Heritage? Please! It exists to disseminate wingnut propaganda, push ID and creationism, and provide wingnut welfare— i.e., money to their chosen shills.
OK, got the 2008 annual reports for both groups.
Total Endowment Fund: $156,180,777
Total Operating Fund: $35,620,617
$30,533,493
Net Assets: $14,059,352
Operating Revenue (Includes Contributions): $63,577,697
Total Assest: $159,673,534
Operating Fund Expenses: 64,645,625
Net Assets: $133,216,138
Would take some time to present this correctly but as you can see, Heritage Foundation is “rolling in the dough” as much as the SPLC.
| 397 |
Olsonist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:33:51pm |
re: #379 SanFranciscoZionist
Unless we’re talking about onions, no.
| 398 |
stevemcg Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:34:26pm |
re: #355 metrolibertarian
George H did the right thing by backing off his “no new taxes” plan. I can’t remember where he went on spending, but we’ll never kill the deficit with cuts alone.
| 399 |
laZardo Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:34:34pm |
re: #394 SanFranciscoZionist
And I just learned on FSTDT that starfish are God’s chosen species.
God Bless Patrick.
/
| 400 |
What, me worry? Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:35:13pm |
Under Clinton, home building rose, construction, manufacturing, minimum wage was raised, auto production rose, expanded job training for workers who lost their jobs to overseas markets and reformed welfare. Pretty darn fiscal eh?
| 401 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:35:19pm |
re: #353 carlitos
Uh, Senator Robert Byrd? My wife and I heard him say the N Word on live TV.
Byrd is a deeply embarassing man, and if it were possible for all the registered Democrats to hold a vote to remove him from office, I have faith that we would.
However, he will probably die in the saddle.
What would you like me to say about Robert Byrd?
| 402 |
recusancy Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:35:47pm |
re: #395 Floral Giraffe
It’s a life style choice.
There is a LOT of disruption, due to unemployment.
But, there are still a SIGNIFICANT number of folks, able to weather this fiscal downturn. It’s a choice, backed by actions. A long term choice, I might add.
Those folks have to be well enough off to be able to have the choice to save their extra income. Many live check to check and don’t have that benefit.
| 403 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:35:57pm |
re: #392 albusteve
I’m safea nd sound and functioning with one leg…it’s hard but not the end of my world
And, kicking ass, from what I can see.
Be well!
| 404 |
offensive_username Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:36:16pm |
Good job, Charles. I like how you cleverly managed to slip in that encoded message to your Lizard followers. It probably didn’t even catch the attention of the uninitiated.
/flick forked tongue in and out of mouth a few times
| 405 |
laZardo Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:37:32pm |
re: #382 Olsonist
If I really have to give the Republicans credit for something, it’s for Republican-run congresses writing the budgets that included these surpluses. That’s responsibility.
I actually brought up the “Clinton personally made the surpluses” point some time ago and got thoroughly debunked for it.
| 406 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:38:12pm |
re: #400 marjoriemoon
Under Clinton, home building rose, construction, manufacturing, minimum wage was raised, auto production rose, expanded job training for workers who lost their jobs to overseas markets and reformed welfare. Pretty darn fiscal eh?
he pretty much left things as they were especially during his second gig…leave it alone and the economy will try to flourish just by natural law…at least when the bust comes it’s not an artificial set up…this last bust was purely manufactured by congress…pisses me off
| 407 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:38:44pm |
| 408 |
Olsonist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:38:54pm |
re: #400 marjoriemoon
You have to all the way back to Truman. Truman ably finished out and improved on FDRs legacy. But FDR and Lincoln were the greatest Presidents by far. Massive challenges.
| 409 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:39:21pm |
re: #386 recusancy
Maybe. I don’t know who that is. What’d she say?
Wrote “The Color Purple”. Well-known novelist. She’s been getting increasingly insane about Israel, and around the time she wrote about having an old lady in Gaza say to her “May God protect you from the Jews” and Alice answering “It’s too late, I already married one,” followed by an explanation of how horrible her ex-inlaws were, and how she understands how hard it is for Jews to stand up against the tribe, the top of my head rotated off.
| 410 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:39:52pm |
re: #402 recusancy
If you really want to live without debt. It can be done.
It is contrary to the “American Way” that is prevalent in popular culture. BUT if you are committed to “no debt” it can be done.
Barring unforeseen life changing events like divorce, unemployment & the like.
Basically, it’s called “not spending any money”.
| 411 |
SteveMcG Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:40:08pm |
re: #405 laZardo
From what I remember, Clinton seemed to get the upper hand on the budget battles. I can barely remember the looming government shutdowns when an appropriation bill was overdue, and many commentators seemed to think that Clinton got what he wanted.
| 412 |
carlitos Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:40:44pm |
re: #401 SanFranciscoZionist
You said it all already. No need. :)
| 413 |
What, me worry? Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:41:48pm |
re: #401 SanFranciscoZionist
Byrd is a deeply embarassing man, and if it were possible for all the registered Democrats to hold a vote to remove him from office, I have faith that we would.
However, he will probably die in the saddle.
What would you like me to say about Robert Byrd?
The folks who point to Byrd as proof of our racism neglect the little portion that the majority of Democrats who were actually racist in the 50s fled to the GOP when the Democratic party changed.
| 414 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:43:19pm |
re: #413 marjoriemoon
The folks who point to Byrd as proof of our racism neglect the little portion that the majority of Democrats who were actually racist in the 50s fled to the GOP when the Democratic party changed.
It’s just part of American politics. Accusing one another of racism, I mean.
I just think of Byrd like a hairshirt. An elderly, cranky hairshirt.
| 415 |
recusancy Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:43:38pm |
re: #409 SanFranciscoZionist
Wrote “The Color Purple”. Well-known novelist. She’s been getting increasingly insane about Israel, and around the time she wrote about having an old lady in Gaza say to her “May God protect you from the Jews” and Alice answering “It’s too late, I already married one,” followed by an explanation of how horrible her ex-inlaws were, and how she understands how hard it is for Jews to stand up against the tribe, the top of my head rotated off.
How anti semitic can she be if she married a Jew? I don’t see how disagreeing with an Israeli policy is racist either.
| 416 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:44:08pm |
re: #410 Floral Giraffe
If you really want to live without debt. It can be done.
It is contrary to the “American Way” that is prevalent in popular culture. BUT if you are committed to “no debt” it can be done.
Barring unforeseen life changing events like divorce, unemployment & the like.Basically, it’s called “not spending any money”.
debt is addictive, especially with such easy money of the last decade…it becomes addicting…I got divorced, changed lifestyles as well as location and decided I’d had my share of fat living….I don’t owe anybody anything, but then I’m not competing with co-workers, friends, and family for the most opulent looking stuff…fuck that, I already did that
| 417 |
Olsonist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:44:36pm |
re: #411 SteveMcG
From what I remember, Clinton seemed to get the upper hand on the budget battles. I can barely remember the looming government shutdowns when an appropriation bill was overdue, and many commentators seemed to think that Clinton got what he wanted.
Agreed. Single handed no. But Bill got what he wanted. Gingrich, not so much. But then I always thought Gingrich was about power. He didn’t really have a clue what to do with it. So he was incredibly gifted in getting a Rep majority but then unsure what to do with it. Rhetorically? gifted. Governing? Hack. Clinton had both.
| 418 |
Girth Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:45:56pm |
re: #414 SanFranciscoZionist
It’s just part of American politics. Accusing one another of racism, I mean.
I just think of Byrd like a hairshirt. An elderly, cranky hairshirt.
I see Byrd much like I used to see Strom Thurmond.
An old as dirt asshole in a wheelchair.
/Apologies to the elderly, the handicapped or ill, and assholes everywhere.
| 419 |
recusancy Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:45:59pm |
re: #414 SanFranciscoZionist
It’s just part of American politics. Accusing one another of racism, I mean.
I just think of Byrd like a hairshirt. An elderly, cranky hairshirt.
Obama wrote in his second book how when he came to the senate Byrd pulled him aside and kind of admitted deep regret and embarrassment for his past.
| 420 |
KingKenrod Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:46:55pm |
re: #400 marjoriemoon
Under Clinton, home building rose, construction, manufacturing, minimum wage was raised, auto production rose, expanded job training for workers who lost their jobs to overseas markets and reformed welfare. Pretty darn fiscal eh?
I hope Obama’s presidency goes as well as Clinton’s - that is, it starts with the catastrophic failure to pass a generally over-reaching and unpopular health plan, followed by divided government for 6 years - this seems to be the only way to get a moderate approach compromise to governing.
And this time we won’t have to deal with the sleaziness of the guy in charge. Obama seems to have his personal house in order.
| 421 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:47:31pm |
re: #415 recusancy
How anti semitic can she be if she married a Jew? I don’t see how disagreeing with an Israeli policy is racist either.
She’s no longer married to him. Hasn’t been for about thirty-five years. Disagreeing with Israeli policy is not racist. However, writing extensively about Israeli history with no knowledge of the subject except what you’ve been told by your friends from Code Pink, falsely suggesting that Israeli shoe companies use prison labor, placing Gaza side by side with with Congo and Rwanda, and pointedly praising ‘good’ Jews who buck the tribe all come perilously close. Walker’s a bigot, as far as I’m concerned.
| 422 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:47:42pm |
re: #419 recusancy
Obama wrote in his second book how when he came to the senate Byrd pulled him aside and kind of admitted deep regret and embarrassment for his past.
why would Byrd do that with a junior Senator from the north?…I suspect BO is lying through his gifted teeth
| 423 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:48:38pm |
re: #416 albusteve
debt is addictive, especially with such easy money of the last decade…it becomes addicting…I got divorced, changed lifestyles as well as location and decided I’d had my share of fat living…I don’t owe anybody anything, but then I’m not competing with co-workers, friends, and family for the most opulent looking stuff…fuck that, I already did that
Also, honestly, my generation was told, by our parents and our teachers, ‘go into huge amounts of debt and get a private college education in four years. You’ll earn enough to pay it off.’ By and large, I think that was an error.
| 424 |
Olsonist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:48:48pm |
re: #415 recusancy
I don’t see how disagreeing with an Israeli policy is racist either.
I definitely don’t see how disagreeing with an Israeli policy is racist either.
| 425 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:49:38pm |
re: #419 recusancy
Obama wrote in his second book how when he came to the senate Byrd pulled him aside and kind of admitted deep regret and embarrassment for his past.
That’s good to know. I think he’d do a lot of good if he’d do some public speaking on the subject.
| 426 |
laZardo Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:50:01pm |
re: #421 SanFranciscoZionist
She’s no longer married to him. Hasn’t been for about thirty-five years. Disagreeing with Israeli policy is not racist. However, writing extensively about Israeli history with no knowledge of the subject except what you’ve been told by your friends from Code Pink, falsely suggesting that Israeli shoe companies use prison labor, placing Gaza side by side with with Congo and Rwanda, and pointedly praising ‘good’ Jews who buck the tribe all come perilously close. Walker’s a bigot, as far as I’m concerned.
But it was ALWAYS called Palestine!
///
| 427 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:50:48pm |
re: #422 albusteve
why would Byrd do that with a junior Senator from the north?…I suspect BO is lying through his gifted teeth
There’s few enough black Senators that he may do it with all of them. Or Obama could have made it up. Who knows?
| 428 |
metrolibertarian Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:51:41pm |
re: #424 Olsonist
I definitely don’t see how disagreeing with an Israeli policy is racist either.
There is a difference between disagreeing with Israeli policy (I personally hate Avigdor Lieberman and may celebrate when his criminal ass will finally be thrown in prison), and disagreeing with Israeli policy with disgusting hyperbole, as individuals on the left have done by comparing Israel’s war in Gaza with the Holocaust.
| 429 |
SteveMcG Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:51:57pm |
re: #422 albusteve
FWIW from an article in the LA Times (I suck at links): “The issue was examined by the Washington Post in a 2005 article headlined “A Senator’s Shame.”
What has not been in dispute is Byrd’s mea culpas. The Post piece ended with this quote from him:
“I know now I was wrong. Intolerance had no place in America. I apologized a thousand times … and I don’t mind apologizing over and over again. I can’t erase what happened.”
| 430 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:53:10pm |
re: #427 SanFranciscoZionist
There’s few enough black Senators that he may do it with all of them. Or Obama could have made it up. Who knows?
BO cannot be trusted on principle…he’s proven that…but he’s a rookie and has to learn as he goes….the feds are chock full of notorious liars and he’s no different
| 431 |
recusancy Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:53:53pm |
re: #427 SanFranciscoZionist
There’s few enough black Senators that he may do it with all of them. Or Obama could have made it up. Who knows?
There’s only been 4 since reconstruction, including Obama.
| 432 |
iceweasel Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:54:25pm |
re: #396 Gus 802
OK, got the 2008 annual reports for both groups.
Total Endowment Fund: $156,180,777
Total Operating Fund: $35,620,617
$30,533,493
Net Assets: $14,059,352Operating Revenue (Includes Contributions): $63,577,697
Total Assest: $159,673,534
Operating Fund Expenses: 64,645,625
Net Assets: $133,216,138Would take some time to present this correctly but as you can see, Heritage Foundation is “rolling in the dough” as much as the SPLC.
Comparing that net asset line, I have to say quite a bit more than the SPLC.
Excellent digging, btw!
| 433 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:54:30pm |
re: #426 laZardo
But it was ALWAYS called Palestine!
///
Lord. The part where Walker starts telling the story from a woman on her tour about how the gal’s husband (Jewish) was born in British Palestine, and won’t visit their family anymore because he’s brutalized by the airport security personnel, who have never SEEN a pre-1948 Palestinian birth record before for some reason, is just priceless. If you don’t know the region, you get fed bubbemeisehs, and you repeat them.
| 434 |
recusancy Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:54:36pm |
re: #430 albusteve
BO cannot be trusted on principle…he’s proven that…but he’s a rookie and has to learn as he goes…the feds are chock full of notorious liars and he’s no different
Why can he not be trusted on principle?
| 435 |
Lidane Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:55:03pm |
re: #422 albusteve
why would Byrd do that with a junior Senator from the north?…I suspect BO is lying through his gifted teeth
Or maybe Byrd was cognizant of the fact that there have only been six African American Senators in history, and of those six, only three have been popularly elected— Edward Brooke (1967-79), Carol Mosley Braun (1993-99), and Barack Obama. Also, of those six people, three of them— Braun, Obama, and Roland Burris — have held the exact same seat from Illinois.
Maybe a former KKK member pulling aside one of a handful of black Senators to talk about his past and his regrets is something that Byrd found important on a personal level. It’s certainly not out of the realm of possibility, anyhow.
| 436 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:55:08pm |
re: #429 SteveMcG
FWIW from an article in the LA Times (I suck at links): “The issue was examined by the Washington Post in a 2005 article headlined “A Senator’s Shame.”
What has not been in dispute is Byrd’s mea culpas. The Post piece ended with this quote from him:
“I know now I was wrong. Intolerance had no place in America. I apologized a thousand times … and I don’t mind apologizing over and over again. I can’t erase what happened.”
then the noble thing to do would be retire finally…Byrd is a bad thing to keep around
| 437 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:55:36pm |
re: #431 recusancy
There’s only been 4 since reconstruction, including Obama.
And seeing as Byrd has been serving in the Senate since Reconstruction himself…
/Did I say that out loud?
| 438 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:56:49pm |
re: #434 recusancy
Why can he not be trusted on principle?
he’s from Chicago…I don’t think he broke the mould
| 439 |
carlitos Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:57:35pm |
This is Chicago. If you want to trust Obama “on principle” feel free.
NB - We sent Mosely-Braun to New Zealand.
| 440 |
Lidane Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:58:21pm |
re: #431 recusancy
There’s only been 4 since reconstruction, including Obama.
Six, actually. Hiram Revels and Blanche Bruce served from Mississippi during Reconstruction. After that, there have been four African American Senators— Edward Brooke, Carol Mosley Braun, Barack Obama, and Roland Burris. Of those four, Braun, Obama and Burris have held the same seat, and Brooke was from Massachusetts.
| 441 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:58:45pm |
re: #435 Lidane
Or maybe Byrd was cognizant of the fact that there have only been six African American Senators in history, and of those six, only three have been popularly elected— Edward Brooke (1967-79), Carol Mosley Braun (1993-99), and Barack Obama. Also, of those six people, three of them— Braun, Obama, and Roland Burris — have held the exact same seat from Illinois.
Maybe a former KKK member pulling aside one of a handful of black Senators to talk about his past and his regrets is something that Byrd found important on a personal level. It’s certainly not out of the realm of possibility, anyhow.
I didn’t say it was impossible…otherwise why should I believe BO?…he is the most mysterious guy to ever become president
| 443 |
arielle Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:58:55pm |
Charles, I thought you did great. I thought overall the guy at Heritage did a good job, although I just wanted 1. smack him every time he said “fair enough” and 2. he got pretty douchey towards the end. He was probably annoyed that Charles is such a good debater.
| 444 |
recusancy Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:58:57pm |
re: #440 Lidane
Six, actually. Hiram Revels and Blanche Bruce served from Mississippi during Reconstruction. After that, there have been four African American Senators— Edward Brooke, Carol Mosley Braun, Barack Obama, and Roland Burris. Of those four, Braun, Obama and Burris have held the same seat, and Brooke was from Massachusetts.
Which is why I said “since” reconstruction.
| 445 |
watching you tiny alien kittens are Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:59:08pm |
| 446 |
Lidane Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:59:31pm |
re: #444 recusancy
Which is why I said “since” reconstruction.
Ah. I missed that bit in my initial read. My bad. :)
| 447 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:59:47pm |
OT: I found this on Hulu the other day. Nothing deep, nor topical. Just good olde sitcom tomfoolery. It’s rating (MA) requires registration with Hulu.
Black Books.
| 448 |
recusancy Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:59:52pm |
re: #441 albusteve
I didn’t say it was impossible…otherwise why should I believe BO?…he is the most mysterious guy to ever become president
Mysterious?
| 449 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:00:18pm |
re: #440 Lidane
Six, actually. Hiram Revels and Blanche Bruce served from Mississippi during Reconstruction. After that, there have been four African American Senators— Edward Brooke, Carol Mosley Braun, Barack Obama, and Roland Burris. Of those four, Braun, Obama and Burris have held the same seat, and Brooke was from Massachusetts.
I think that’s what Recusancy meant. Two Reconstruction era, four following.
| 450 |
What, me worry? Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:00:22pm |
re: #435 Lidane
Or maybe Byrd was cognizant of the fact that there have only been six African American Senators in history, and of those six, only three have been popularly elected— Edward Brooke (1967-79), Carol Mosley Braun (1993-99), and Barack Obama. Also, of those six people, three of them— Braun, Obama, and Roland Burris — have held the exact same seat from Illinois.
Maybe a former KKK member pulling aside one of a handful of black Senators to talk about his past and his regrets is something that Byrd found important on a personal level. It’s certainly not out of the realm of possibility, anyhow.
Byrd has apologized many times for himself. I don’t know what to make of it.
I just peeked at his senate website and he has an article on the front page about returning to the “old values” and says, “As we enter this New Epoch, I also urge my fellow West Virginians not to forget the past!” And then he talks about God.
Well alrighty then. How far back in the past there Senator?
I’m ok with supporting all those things he mentioned, but can we leave religion out of it?
Not a fan of the Byrd.
| 451 |
Gus Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:00:48pm |
re: #432 iceweasel
Comparing that net asset line, I have to say quite a bit more than the SPLC.
Excellent digging, btw!
Yeah, considering they get millions from Charles Koch and defense contractors. NTTAWWT ;)
SPLC does good things and what their contributors want them to do. Picking out two magazine articles as Carroll does amounts to nothing but a cheap shot. One would think that he would know better and that they represent the “free market” of ideas and representation in a democratic society. Part of that free market is reflected in the contributions they receive.
If he feels so strongly and defensive about some groups being classified as hate groups by the SPLC perhaps he can lobby Heritage to create a similar group to the SPLC which can also defend those groups from the SPLC. Good luck with that — it’s not going to look very good on the PR front. Won’t happen.
| 452 |
Lidane Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:00:58pm |
re: #441 albusteve
he is the most mysterious guy to ever become president
Mysterious? I’m at a loss to see how, especially after he spent two years running for the office under an intense level of media scrutiny.
| 453 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:01:04pm |
re: #441 albusteve
I didn’t say it was impossible…otherwise why should I believe BO?…he is the most mysterious guy to ever become president
He’s not that mysterious, really. I think what you see is basically what you get.
| 454 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:01:41pm |
re: #450 marjoriemoon
a burned out old coot….we don’t need people like that in the senate, but it’s what we have become, these guys are like gods
| 455 |
arielle Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:01:50pm |
I forgot to add that I also watched the previous interview you did with the left wing radio guy, who was also a douche. At least in this interview Charles wasn’t asked why we murdered a gazillion Iraqis civilians who only wanted to live in rainbow peace while strolling down lollypop streets.
| 456 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:02:32pm |
re: #455 arielle
I forgot to add that I also watched the previous interview you did with the left wing radio guy, who was also a douche. At least in this interview Charles wasn’t asked why we murdered a gazillion Iraqis civilians who only wanted to live in rainbow peace while strolling down lollypop streets.
Were tangerine trees and marmalade skies mentioned?
| 457 |
What, me worry? Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:03:01pm |
re: #454 albusteve
a burned out old coot…we don’t need people like that in the senate, but it’s what we have become, these guys are like gods
Oh I wouldn’t say Byrd is a God. I don’t know what the Dems are like in WV and have no reason to find out if they keep re-electing him.
| 458 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:03:16pm |
re: #452 Lidane
Mysterious? I’m at a loss to see how, especially after he spent two years running for the office under an intense level of media scrutiny.
I’ll bet…as for media scrutiny, I have no comment…you can have him with all his transparency
| 459 |
Gus Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:03:59pm |
re: #457 marjoriemoon
Oh I wouldn’t say Byrd is a God. I don’t know what the Dems are like in WV and have no reason to find out if they keep re-electing him.
Two reason I can think of.
1. Bacon
2. Coal
| 460 |
watching you tiny alien kittens are Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:04:00pm |
re: #448 recusancy
Mysterious?
Mysterious because the rightwing bloggers who don’t want to accept reality say that they cannot dig up anything on his past. Of course the leftwing bloggers and “normal” people have no problem at all doing so, but that is just because they are “lefties.”
///
| 461 |
laZardo Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:04:03pm |
re: #456 SanFranciscoZionist
Were tangerine trees and marmalade skies mentioned?
I still remember that National Geographic photo of that girl with kaleidoscope eyes…
| 462 |
Lidane Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:04:11pm |
re: #450 marjoriemoon
Byrd has apologized many times for himself. I don’t know what to make of it.
I’m willing to give the guy the benefit of the doubt, just because that’s in my nature and because of his advanced age. I think he genuinely does regret his racist past.
I don’t follow Byrd all that much so I can’t say if I’m a fan or not, but beyond that I’m willing to accept that he’s sorry for what he used to be.
| 463 |
recusancy Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:04:11pm |
re: #458 albusteve
I’ll bet…as for media scrutiny, I have no comment…you can have him with all his transparency
What’s so mysterious about him other then he’s not Bob Johnson from Ohio?
| 464 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:05:14pm |
re: #453 SanFranciscoZionist
He’s not that mysterious, really. I think what you see is basically what you get.
no mystery at all…records sealed and Harvard is not talking…please
| 465 |
SteveMcG Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:05:57pm |
re: #458 albusteve
“no comment”? You brought it up. That’s like punting on second down.
| 466 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:06:39pm |
re: #460 ausador
Mysterious because the rightwing bloggers who don’t want to accept reality say that they cannot dig up anything on his past. Of course the leftwing bloggers and “normal” people have no problem at all doing so, but that is just because they are “lefties.”
///
what did he actually do at Harvard?…why the dodge?….insert your privacy argument here
| 467 |
Olsonist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:06:49pm |
re: #464 albusteve
no mystery at all…records sealed and Harvard is not talking…please
Wow, that’s straight from NewsMax.
| 468 |
What, me worry? Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:07:06pm |
re: #462 Lidane
I’m willing to give the guy the benefit of the doubt, just because that’s in my nature and because of his advanced age. I think he genuinely does regret his racist past.
I don’t follow Byrd all that much so I can’t say if I’m a fan or not, but beyond that I’m willing to accept that he’s sorry for what he used to be.
My experience says that racists don’t change their spots. The truth is, I never think of Byrd, his policies or opinions. I find him disgusting. Certain taint doesn’t rub off for me.
If he’s sincere, that’s fine. It’s between him and God.
| 469 |
Locker Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:07:24pm |
re: #465 SteveMcG
“no comment”? You brought it up. That’s like punting on second down.
When the crap you fling doesn’t stick you punt. Punting early, in this case, is probably smart.
| 470 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:07:45pm |
re: #465 SteveMcG
“no comment”? You brought it up. That’s like punting on second down.
there have been thousands of posts about that…it’s boring
| 471 |
SteveMcG Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:08:13pm |
re: #466 albusteve
Didn’t he get a law degree from Harvard? Yeah, I think that’s what he did. Involved in the school paper, too. I guess they didn’t seal everything.
| 472 |
recusancy Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:08:32pm |
re: #470 albusteve
there have been thousands of posts about that…it’s boring
And they usually end up asking for his nirf certifikit.
| 473 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:08:54pm |
re: #467 Olsonist
Wow, that’s straight from NewsMax.
yeah, it’s all over the county and multi news sources…wow
| 474 |
watching you tiny alien kittens are Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:09:11pm |
re: #464 albusteve
no mystery at all…records sealed and Harvard is not talking…please
In exactly the same way that your records would be, yep, thats really conspiracy theory grade shit there…sigh.
There is such a thing as public records, then there is this other thing, they are called private records, maybe you have heard of them?
| 475 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:09:56pm |
re: #464 albusteve
no mystery at all…records sealed and Harvard is not talking…please
What do you imagine you’re going to find in these records, except possibly an embarassing grade in statistics?
| 476 |
Lidane Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:09:58pm |
re: #468 marjoriemoon
The truth is, I never think of Byrd, his policies or opinions.
Neither do I. I’ve got enough to deal with thinking about all the headache inducing idiocy here in Texas politics to worry about a Senator in his 90’s from West Virginia.
Eh. I figure if he’s sincere enough to publicly own up to and apologize for his past, he’s allowed a bit of a benefit of the doubt. I don’t have to vote for him, so the rest is something I don’t even spend any energy on.
| 477 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:10:23pm |
re: #472 recusancy
And they usually end up asking for his nirf certifikit.
I didn’t…I’d simply like to know his academic background…it’s gonna be a big hole in his presidential library
| 478 |
iceweasel Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:11:01pm |
re: #452 Lidane
Mysterious? I’m at a loss to see how, especially after he spent two years running for the office under an intense level of media scrutiny.
But we’ve never seen his college transcripts. And we don’t know whether the presidental penis is circumcised. *
*actual thread on freerepublic.
| 479 |
McSpiff Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:11:40pm |
re: #477 albusteve
I didn’t…I’d simply like to know his academic background…it’s gonna be a big hole in his presidential library
Do you ask for this from everyone, or just people you don’t like?
| 481 |
Gus Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:11:57pm |
re: #478 iceweasel
But we’ve never seen his college transcripts. And we don’t know whether the presidental penis is circumcised. *
*actual thread on freerepublic.
Weren’t they looking for his umbilical cord once?
| 482 |
SteveMcG Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:12:05pm |
re: #468 marjoriemoon
I can tell you personally that a racist can change his spots. I cringe when I remember the things I used to say to my friends when I was young. I won’t say I’m color blind, but I think I at least have a better grasp of reality then when I was a teenager.
| 483 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:12:20pm |
| 484 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:12:53pm |
re: #459 Gus 802
Two reason I can think of.
1. Bacon
2. Coal
And, I feel that needs repeating!
Bacon.
Coal.
Thanks, Gus!
| 485 |
Girth Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:12:57pm |
re: #482 SteveMcG
I can tell you personally that a racist can change his spots. I cringe when I remember the things I used to say to my friends when I was young. I won’t say I’m color blind, but I think I at least have a better grasp of reality then when I was a teenager.
I’m gonna go out on a limb and guess you weren’t a Klan member, though.
| 486 |
McSpiff Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:13:22pm |
re: #483 albusteve
just the POTUS
Why? Why not your Governor, Senator, Congressmen, Mayor or any other of the dozens of officials that affect your daily life?
| 487 |
Olsonist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:13:40pm |
Just like Kerry wouldn’t release all of his Navy records nor would McCain nor would W these guys want a little privacy. Do you think he wrote something controversial about Marbury v Madison?
| 488 |
Locker Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:13:43pm |
re: #479 McSpiff
Do you ask for this from everyone, or just people you don’t like?
Well he already morphed “the most mysterious guy to ever become president” into “I’d simply like to know his academic background”. With talent like that you should not ask silly questions.
| 489 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:13:48pm |
re: #478 iceweasel
But we’ve never seen his college transcripts. And we don’t know whether the presidental penis is circumcised. *
*actual thread on freerepublic.
I officially give up any right I may have as a US citizen to know anything about the state of the presidential penis. As a Democrat, one of the things I most appreciated about George W. Bush was that I got to spend eight years without spending a moment thinking about the president’s genitalia. I would like to be allowed to keep going with this.
| 490 |
What, me worry? Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:14:11pm |
Albusteve, what you wanna know?
Obama entered Harvard Law School in 1988. He was editor of the Harvard Law Review at the end of his first year and president of the journal in his second year. In the summers, he worked in Chicago as a summer associate at the law firms of Sidley Austin in 1989 and Hopkins & Sutter in 1990. Got his JD (magna cum laude) from Harvard in 1991.
Or you think idiots serve as editor of HLR.
| 491 |
SteveMcG Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:14:16pm |
re: #485 Girth
NO! I guess there’s a big bridge between bluster and action.
| 494 |
Gus Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:15:23pm |
re: #489 SanFranciscoZionist
I officially give up any right I may have as a US citizen to know anything about the state of the presidential penis. As a Democrat, one of the things I most appreciated about George W. Bush was that I got to spend eight years without spending a moment thinking about the president’s genitalia. I would like to be allowed to keep going with this.
I think the only time that would be acceptable would be at a party during a urologist convention. /
| 495 |
What, me worry? Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:15:41pm |
re: #482 SteveMcG
I can tell you personally that a racist can change his spots. I cringe when I remember the things I used to say to my friends when I was young. I won’t say I’m color blind, but I think I at least have a better grasp of reality then when I was a teenager.
I’m glad to hear it! I’ve been wrong before!
| 497 |
watching you tiny alien kittens are Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:15:55pm |
re: #473 albusteve
yeah, it’s all over the county and multi news sources…wow
Yeah I know, you want to be able to read the essays he wrote, see his grades, see the notes his teachers wrote in his school file. Why? So that you can maybe find something else to rag on him about, from over 20 years ago when he was still in school.
Well guess what it is none of your effing business and those are private files, unless he decides to release them to the public voluntarily they are protected by law from being made public. Why don’t you demand the long form birth certificate along with them, you have just as much right to see that…none.
| 498 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:16:18pm |
re: #488 Locker
Well he already morphed “the most mysterious guy to ever become president” into “I’d simply like to know his academic background”. With talent like that you should not ask silly questions.
hey buckethead! nice to see you…so am I racist for wanting to know BOs Harvard background?….he works for me so I’m curious…your tagteam sharks consider me a shithead racists…nice people
| 499 |
SteveMcG Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:16:18pm |
re: #492 albusteve
Doubt it. You were folding after only a dozen posts. I don’t think your heart’s really in it.
| 500 |
Girth Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:16:20pm |
re: #489 SanFranciscoZionist
I officially give up any right I may have as a US citizen to know anything about the state of the presidential penis. As a Democrat, one of the things I most appreciated about George W. Bush was that I got to spend eight years without spending a moment thinking about the president’s genitalia. I would like to be allowed to keep going with this.
Why do you hate America?
/
| 501 |
McSpiff Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:16:39pm |
| 502 |
iceweasel Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:16:43pm |
re: #481 Gus 802
Weren’t they looking for his umbilical cord once?
That rings a vague bell…I think I’ve become so inured to the ZOMG OBAMA! crowd that it all blurs together. I never fully recovered from the Freak Republic thread wanting to know about the presidential unit.
I’m surprised Orly Taitz or someone hasn’t been posting pictures of Obama’s mother’s ultrasound, claiming it shows fetal-Obama giving the Black Panther salute. You know some out there would believe it.
| 505 |
Locker Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:18:02pm |
It’s amazing to me how a person can flip-flop from a pile on bully when his buddies are around to a whiny misunderstood victim when that person is actually challenged on their bullshit. Simply amazing.
| 506 |
McSpiff Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:18:03pm |
re: #503 albusteve
fuck you…I want to know what subjects BO studied, pinhead
That’s nice that you’re interested, but you have absolutely no right to it.
| 507 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:19:05pm |
what’s the Won hiding?….you shithead, troll, buckethear BO droolers?…what’s the big deal?…need some new mean assed names here, you guys are disappointing me
| 509 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:19:25pm |
re: #496 Olsonist
Steve may be a contrarian extraordinaire, he may even be wrong more often than not, but he ain’t no troll.
| 510 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:19:44pm |
re: #501 McSpiff
Yes, God forbid you be forced to defend the crap you throw.
what crap is that?…JNap is a hack btw
| 511 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:20:25pm |
re: #509 Slumbering Behemoth
Steve may be a contrarian extraordinaire, he may even be wrong more often than not, but he ain’t no troll.
thanks…it’s the last refuge for some people
| 512 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:21:11pm |
re: #505 Locker
It’s amazing to me how a person can flip-flop from a pile on bully when his buddies are around to a whiny misunderstood victim when that person is actually challenged on their bullshit. Simply amazing.
what bullshit?…name it, show me
| 513 |
abolitionist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:21:47pm |
re: #506 McSpiff
That’s nice that you’re interested, but you have absolutely no right to it.
Didn’t someone recently running for a high public office promise the public something he called transparency?
| 514 |
recusancy Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:22:06pm |
re: #498 albusteve
hey buckethead! nice to see you…so am I racist for wanting to know BOs Harvard background?…he works for me so I’m curious…your tagteam sharks consider me a shithead racists…nice people
Is that the only reason you think he’s the most mysterious president we’ve ever had?
| 515 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:22:18pm |
re: #506 McSpiff
That’s nice that you’re interested, but you have absolutely no right to it.
so what?…what’s the Won hiding?….just curious…is curiosity racist now?
| 516 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:22:29pm |
I’m out of here to the other thread. I have no stomach for this stuff this evening.
| 517 |
Olsonist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:22:29pm |
re: #509 Slumbering Behemoth
He may not be a troll but he was trolling.
| 518 |
Lidane Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:22:49pm |
re: #489 SanFranciscoZionist
As a Democrat, one of the things I most appreciated about George W. Bush was that I got to spend eight years without spending a moment thinking about the president’s genitalia. I would like to be allowed to keep going with this.
Heh. Same here. I really have no desire to know anything about the sex life or genitalia of the POTUS ever again.
Mercifully, it seems that President Obama has all that in order and we will be spared any of that nonsense while he’s in office. He seems to have a solid marriage and the kids are adorable. Plus, the guy willingly lives with his mother in law in the White House. I don’t think anyone whos’ got all kinds of personal drama going on would want an in-law so close by.
| 519 |
Locker Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:23:01pm |
re: #509 Slumbering Behemoth
Steve may be a contrarian extraordinaire, he may even be wrong more often than not, but he ain’t no troll.
I don’t know man it’s a pretty predictable cycle. He does it over and over, many times, every day.
1. Throw up some inflammatory statement against the President, Democrats, Liberals, ACORN or the like.
2. Soak up the congratulations from his few backers OR pretend he didn’t say it, change the subject, attack, then cry, then leave if the backers aren’t around and he has to actually defend his statement.
Either way he’s only doing it to get a reaction for his own personal amusement. That’s the definition of a troll, to a T.
| 520 |
McSpiff Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:23:03pm |
re: #510 albusteve
what crap is that?…JNap is a hack btw
re: #507 albusteve
what’s the Won hiding?…you shithead, troll, buckethear BO droolers?…what’s the big deal?…need some new mean assed names here, you guys are disappointing me
re: #503 albusteve
fuck you…I want to know what subjects BO studied, pinhead
re: #498 albusteve
hey buckethead! nice to see you…so am I racist for wanting to know BOs Harvard background?…he works for me so I’m curious…your tagteam sharks consider me a shithead racists…nice people
re: #492 albusteve
swarm!…bring it on!
re: #477 albusteve
I didn’t…I’d simply like to know his academic background…it’s gonna be a big hole in his presidential library
All I see in these posts is an angry poster, pushing long discredited ideas in an attempt to piss people off. If that ain’t one definition for a troll, I have no idea what is.
| 521 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:24:08pm |
re: #514 recusancy
Is that the only reason you think he’s the most mysterious president we’ve ever had?
yes, so far…why is it so wrong to know the background of your employees?…I get called names for that?…hahaha!…fucking lame
| 522 |
Gus Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:24:15pm |
You know. You can discuss things without making it personal. Right now this squabbling is being done in the Blogginheads thread regarding an appearance by Charles at the same place. You’re defacing this place with this irritating back and forth shenanigans.
| 523 |
McSpiff Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:24:36pm |
re: #515 albusteve
so what?…what’s the Won hiding?…just curious…is curiosity racist now?
Where did I mention race? You’re attacking shadows man.
| 524 |
rwmofo Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:24:43pm |
OT: Well, actually On T.
I just spent an hour watching this interview and felt that it was a somewhat civil conversation. I’ve never heard of Conn Carroll before. The time went by fairly quickly. Glad that I watched it.
| 525 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:25:26pm |
re: #523 McSpiff
Where did I mention race? You’re attacking shadows man.
ask iceweasle….you just have not been around too long
| 526 |
Lidane Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:25:59pm |
re: #503 albusteve
I want to know what subjects BO studied
That’s easy enough. Here’s a PDF for you:
[Link: www.law.harvard.edu…]
Yes, it’s the current set of graduation requirements from Harvard Law, but the basics don’t really change.
| 527 |
watching you tiny alien kittens are Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:26:27pm |
So…instead of worrying about what is actually happening right now, today,re: #503 albusteve
fuck you…I want to know what subjects BO studied, pinhead
He majored in constitutional law and graduated near the head of his class, next?
| 528 |
Locker Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:26:34pm |
re: #522 Gus 802
You know. You can discuss things without making it personal. Right now this squabbling is being done in the Blogginheads thread regarding an appearance by Charles at the same place. You’re defacing this place with this irritating back and forth shenanigans.
I can appreciate your point but on the other hand, if a person continues to repeat a certain bad behavior and isn’t called on it, then it’s just encouraging them to do it more.
It’s not pleasant, true, but from some perspectives it’s necessary. The good part is, it’s not the person, it’s the behavior. Luckily a person can change their behavior, if they want to, and then it’s all good.
| 529 |
McSpiff Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:26:57pm |
re: #521 albusteve
yes, so far…why is it so wrong to know the background of your employees?…I get called names for that?…hahaha!…fucking lame
The American people were clearly satisfied with the information Obama provided. They elected him to the highest office in the land.
re: #525 albusteve
ask iceweasle…you just have not been around too long
I need iceweasel to show me where I accused you of being racist? For the record, you’ve never struck me as the racist type.
| 530 |
Gus Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:27:59pm |
re: #528 Locker
I can appreciate your point but on the other hand, if a person continues to repeat a certain bad behavior and isn’t called on it, then it’s just encouraging them to do it more.
It’s not pleasant, true, but from some perspectives it’s necessary. The good part is, it’s not the person, it’s the behavior. Luckily a person can change their behavior, if they want to, and then it’s all good.
OK. But keep in mind that Steve’s going through some rough times now with his health and all.
| 531 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:29:53pm |
you fucking rubes are a disgrace…I have done nothing but state I wanted to know more about BOs background…and I get attacked and piled on by a bunch of noob wanabees…you guys have no style and are no fun…you think you count with me?…tora!…I could care less…you look like a bunch of school punks with all your name calling and juvenile snark…you don’t like me so what?…show some class you hillbillies
| 532 |
Locker Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:30:20pm |
re: #530 Gus 802
OK. But keep in mind that Steve’s going through some rough times now with his health and all.
In that respect he has my best and I would hope that everything works out right. In that spirit let me extend the olive branch..
Steve, I do respect you for some things. You are unbelievably tenacious in your pursuits. Others would have and have flounced for about 1 percent of what you put up with on a daily basis. That takes guts.
Choose to filter some of that resilience and tenacity into informing yourself before you post. If you do so, you will actually be a force with which to be reckoned.
| 533 |
iceweasel Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:30:56pm |
re: #518 Lidane
Heh. Same here. I really have no desire to know anything about the sex life or genitalia of the POTUS ever again.
Mercifully, it seems that President Obama has all that in order and we will be spared any of that nonsense while he’s in office. He seems to have a solid marriage and the kids are adorable. Plus, the guy willingly lives with his mother in law in the White House. I don’t think anyone whos’ got all kinds of personal drama going on would want an in-law so close by.
Well, if we are spared all that, it’s no thanks to the wingnut brigade. I saw a post recently by someone saying that the very fact that there are no sex scandals around Obama, and no exgirlfriends or mistresses popping up in the tabloids, is proof that he must be teh ghey.
The wingnut judiciously qualified this gem, by saying that we couldn’t be certain he was gay, but we could be certain that there must be something strange going on with him sexually and that he and Michelle Obama don’t have sex. (He believes that they are cold to each other in public, btw).
Never, ever, underestimate the capacity of a wingnut to see things that aren’t there, and to invent smears. Or the capacity of those suffering from ODS to believe anything at all, so long as it’s negative about Obama.
| 534 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:31:36pm |
re: #529 McSpiff
I need iceweasel to show me where I accused you of being racist? For the record, you’ve never struck me as the racist type.
you are an idiot McSpiff…you stick your nose where it don’t belong…are you aware that every single post is archived here?
| 535 |
SteveMcG Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:32:22pm |
re: #531 albusteve
You call this “attacked and piled on”? It’s a frickin’ blog. Get a life.
| 536 |
McSpiff Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:33:07pm |
re: #534 albusteve
you are an idiot McSpiff…you stick your nose where it don’t belong…are you aware that every single post is archived here?
I’m more than aware. Feel free to read through mine. Might learn something.
| 537 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:34:04pm |
re: #528 Locker
I can appreciate your point but on the other hand, if a person continues to repeat a certain bad behavior and isn’t called on it, then it’s just encouraging them to do it more.
It’s not pleasant, true, but from some perspectives it’s necessary. The good part is, it’s not the person, it’s the behavior. Luckily a person can change their behavior, if they want to, and then it’s all good.
dream on fantasy boy…I don’t attack people, your whole rap is garbage and you know it…try another angle because this one is pure bullshit…just go upthread and read for yourself…thanks for the laff tho
| 538 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:34:25pm |
re: #511 albusteve
Shit, don’t thank me. The term “troll” gets misused as much as the term “conservative”. Hell, you yourself used it (troll) in your #507.
But as much as you and I have conversated, and bucked heads sometimes, I can tell you ain’t here trolling for reactionary comments. You’re a WYSIWYG type, and sometimes an asshole. Being a card carrying member of both groups myself, I can respect you without agreeing with you.
You may be a lot of things, but you’re no troll.
| 539 |
BryanS Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:35:00pm |
re: #531 albusteve
you fucking rubes are a disgrace…I have done nothing but state I wanted to know more about BOs background…and I get attacked and piled on by a bunch of noob wanabees…you guys have no style and are no fun…you think you count with me?…tora!…I could care less…you look like a bunch of school punks with all your name calling and juvenile snark…you don’t like me so what?…show some class you hillbillies
Reading the past few posts, might I suggest dialing back—pushing the “reset button” per se :) — the heated comments. You can argue your case without attacking. Maybe you felt attacked before this tirade, but you’re not coming off well in the exchange.
That said, it is not racist to want to know the background of our president. College transcripts have rarely influenced me, but we knew enough about Obama to know he did well academically—had to in order to be part of the law review—but your criticism is with the press. I do seem to recall Palin not releasing her transcripts either. Big whoop.
| 540 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:35:07pm |
re: #532 Locker
In that respect he has my best and I would hope that everything works out right. In that spirit let me extend the olive branch..
Steve, I do respect you for some things. You are unbelievably tenacious in your pursuits. Others would have and have flounced for about 1 percent of what you put up with on a daily basis. That takes guts.
Choose to filter some of that resilience and tenacity into informing yourself before you post. If you do so, you will actually be a force with which to be reckoned.
Charles is my filter
| 541 |
iceweasel Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:35:59pm |
re: #525 albusteve
ask iceweasle…you just have not been around too long
I get that you’re feeling attacked and beleaguered, but downding for the crappy, tired old tactic of trying to initiate a nice pigpile on iceweasel as your deflection tactic.
Especially as you already employed it once already today.
| 542 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:36:19pm |
re: #535 SteveMcG
You call this “attacked and piled on”? It’s a frickin’ blog. Get a life.
what do you want from me third in line?…
| 543 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:38:05pm |
re: #541 iceweasel
I get that you’re feeling attacked and beleaguered, but downding for the crappy, tired old tactic of trying to initiate a nice pigpile on iceweasel as your deflection tactic.
Especially as you already employed it once already today.
you were the first and only poster to claim wanting to know BOs school records is racists in principle…such bullshit flows pretty freely around here nowdays
| 544 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:39:05pm |
re: #539 BryanS
Reading the past few posts, might I suggest dialing back—pushing the “reset button” per se :) — the heated comments. You can argue your case without attacking. Maybe you felt attacked before this tirade, but you’re not coming off well in the exchange.
That said, it is not racist to want to know the background of our president. College transcripts have rarely influenced me, but we knew enough about Obama to know he did well academically—had to in order to be part of the law review—but your criticism is with the press. I do seem to recall Palin not releasing her transcripts either. Big whoop.
tell the others to dial it back and not attack me personally
| 545 |
Lidane Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:40:07pm |
re: #533 iceweasel
Never, ever, underestimate the capacity of a wingnut to see things that aren’t there, and to invent smears. Or the capacity of those suffering from ODS to believe anything at all, so long as it’s negative about Obama.
Oh, I know. I’ve seen all the “ZOMG! There are no mistresses so he must secretly be gay!” crap in the supermarket tabloids when I’m standing in the checkout line. I just roll my eyes at it all.
If there really was anything there, it would’ve been found by now, especially considering the media scrutiny of the two years he spent running for office. All the big far right nontroversies— the nirth certifkit, his Harvard Law transcripts, his citizenship, etc. — would have been discovered long before now if there was any merit to the accusations at hand. Someone would have found something that sticks just because of the sheer amount of press involved during a presidential election.
Watching folks come unglued since Obama’s election has been fascinating. I always suspected that the first minority or female President would drive some folks nuts, but man…the ODS folks have really outdone themselves. I’m almost impressed.
| 546 |
recusancy Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:40:49pm |
re: #542 albusteve
what do you want from me third in line?…
I wanna know what happened in the Skull and Bones Society. I want to know what exactly happened with W during his Guard days. I want to know all the woman Clinton boinked. I want to know what Reagan really knew about Iran Contra.
I’d say Obama’s the least mysterious guy if you ask me.
| 547 |
Mark Pennington Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:41:32pm |
The interview was really interesting and the fact that I watched the entire hour without a break or getting bored is saying A LOT. Charles, you do well on camera and wiped the floor with this guy. He rolled his eyes too much and came across as condescending, in my opinion.
| 548 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:42:05pm |
re: #545 Lidane
Oh, I know. I’ve seen all the “ZOMG! There are no mistresses so he must secretly be gay!” crap in the supermarket tabloids when I’m standing in the checkout line. I just roll my eyes at it all.
To be fair, I saw one of those just today declaring that secret love letter from Bush to Condi had been found. The tabloids have no discernable partisan angle.
| 549 |
McSpiff Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:43:00pm |
re: #548 SanFranciscoZionist
To be fair, I saw one of those just today declaring that secret love letter from Bush to Condi had been found. The tabloids have no discernable partisan angle.
Might be cliché, but sex sells.
| 550 |
Olsonist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:44:23pm |
re: #548 SanFranciscoZionist
To be fair, I saw one of those just today declaring that secret love letter from Bush to Condi had been found. The tabloids have no discernable partisan angle.
I’d schtup Condi. I mean I’d totally schtup Condi.
| 551 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:44:26pm |
re: #546 recusancy
I wanna know what happened in the Skull and Bones Society. I want to know what exactly happened with W during his Guard days. I want to know all the woman Clinton boinked. I want to know what Reagan really knew about Iran Contra.
I’d say Obama’s the least mysterious guy if you ask me.
you should, he’s your president..I have no more regard for Bush than most here
| 552 |
SteveMcG Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:44:41pm |
Albusteve can play the victim as good as any liberal.
| 553 |
BryanS Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:45:06pm |
re: #544 albusteve
tell the others to dial it back and not attack me personally
Maybe it’s there upthread, but I’ve seen recent posts asking where the racist accusation was levied, and also stating they do not think you are racist. I see some voices trying to dial things back—just let them do that.
| 554 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:45:26pm |
re: #550 Olsonist
I’d schtup Condi. I mean I’d totally schtup Condi.
Well, me too. But I still don’t believe the Star about it.
| 555 |
Olsonist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:46:05pm |
| 556 |
Lidane Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:46:08pm |
re: #548 SanFranciscoZionist
To be fair, I saw one of those just today declaring that secret love letter from Bush to Condi had been found. The tabloids have no discernable partisan angle.
True. They just want to sell magazines and sex scandals sell. To be honest, I’m surprised the supermarket tabloids are still up and running considering that by the time they go to press with anything, TMZ and Perez Hilton have been posting about it online for days.
| 557 |
BryanS Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:46:20pm |
re: #548 SanFranciscoZionist
To be fair, I saw one of those just today declaring that secret love letter from Bush to Condi had been found. The tabloids have no discernable partisan angle.
The sex is bi-partisan…sometimes bi and sometimes partison :)
| 558 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:47:18pm |
re: #552 SteveMcG
Albusteve can play the victim as good as any liberal.
how so?…wanting to have information is victimhood?…pretty lame bro…your third rate snark does little to hurt my feelings
| 559 |
Mark Pennington Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:47:37pm |
re: #548 SanFranciscoZionist
To be fair, I saw one of those just today declaring that secret love letter from Bush to Condi had been found. The tabloids have no discernable partisan angle.
I thought that Condi has been living with a woman for many years.(not that there’s anything wrong with that.)
| 560 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:47:44pm |
re: #517 Olsonist
He may not be a troll but he was trolling.
I disagree. A troll posts incendiary or inflammatory comments simply for the sake of trawling for outraged responses. Right or wrong, he posts from his point of view, and has done so consistently.
If you think he’s wrong about something, hit him with a counter-point. Using the term troll incorrectly does nothing to make a point.
| 561 |
McSpiff Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:47:56pm |
Look I might be a clueless newbie, but I have been around long enough to know that steve can give it just as good as he gets or better. If he’s asking to drop it, it’s probably as much for our own good as his.
| 562 |
iceweasel Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:49:42pm |
re: #543 albusteve
you were the first and only poster to claim wanting to know BOs school records is racists in principle…such bullshit flows pretty freely around here nowdays
Of course, this is either a deliberate lie on your part or some confused wingnut reading comprehension fail.
| 563 |
rwmofo Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:50:46pm |
| 564 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:51:08pm |
re: #561 McSpiff
Look I might be a clueless newbie, but I have been around long enough to know that steve can give it just as good as he gets or better. If he’s asking to drop it, it’s probably as much for our own good as his.
I’m not asking anything of the sort…these personal attack show more about you than me…I simply want to know about BOs background…rage on if you want…I’ve mixed it up with better people than you…snark away
| 565 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:52:21pm |
re: #562 iceweasel
Of course, this is either a deliberate lie on your part or some confused wingnut reading comprehension fail.
it’s archived…you remember it…if you deny it then you are lying
| 566 |
McSpiff Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:54:18pm |
re: #564 albusteve
I’m not asking anything of the sort…these personal attack show more about you than me…I simply want to know about BOs background…rage on if you want…I’ve mixed it up with better people than you…snark away
I honestly couldn’t care any less about you at this point, but
re: #544 albusteve
tell the others to dial it back and not attack me personally
That sure looks like you asking for people to not attack you personally. You’re a good scrapper, and theres nothing wrong with wanting a break from it. I’ll respect that.
| 567 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:55:20pm |
re: #559 beekiller
I thought that Condi has been living with a woman for many years.(not that there’s anything wrong with that.)
No clue. Her private life is extremely private. (Not that there’s anything wrong with that either, but it does confuse people in the modern age.)
| 568 |
iceweasel Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:55:48pm |
re: #545 Lidane
Oh, I know. I’ve seen all the “ZOMG! There are no mistresses so he must secretly be gay!” crap in the supermarket tabloids when I’m standing in the checkout line. I just roll my eyes at it all.
If there really was anything there, it would’ve been found by now, especially considering the media scrutiny of the two years he spent running for office. All the big far right nontroversies— the nirth certifkit, his Harvard Law transcripts, his citizenship, etc. — would have been discovered long before now if there was any merit to the accusations at hand. Someone would have found something that sticks just because of the sheer amount of press involved during a presidential election.
Watching folks come unglued since Obama’s election has been fascinating. I always suspected that the first minority or female President would drive some folks nuts, but man…the ODS folks have really outdone themselves. I’m almost impressed.
It is fascinating but at this point it freaks me out. i never expected this level of hysteria, nor did I expect the GOP to turn into the total freak show that it’s become. My schadenfreude about that wore off a long time ago, because I think we really need two healthy functioning parties (at least) in a democracy.
The other problem with the ODS sufferers— every single bit of information they get only confirms them in their worst suspicions about Obama. They’ll tell you that Obama wants to defund the war (seekrit Muslim! whatever), and when you show them proof that none of his actions bear out their worst suspicions, they’ll tell you it’s just proof of how devious he is.
Their theories aren’t falsifiable, ever.
| 569 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:56:34pm |
| 570 |
albusteve Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:56:50pm |
re: #566 McSpiff
That sure looks like you asking for people to not attack you personally. You’re a good scrapper, and theres nothing wrong with wanting a break from it. I’ll respect that.
I never attack personally…only in retaliation or when someone is wildly out of line…the best part of it is I’m willing to be friendly with anyone and I’ve proven that…when you let it go I will too, no blood no foul…shake?
| 571 |
recusancy Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:56:58pm |
re: #567 SanFranciscoZionist
No clue. Her private life is extremely private. (Not that there’s anything wrong with that either, but it does confuse people in the modern age.)
So she’s “mysterious”? ;)
| 572 |
iceweasel Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:58:04pm |
re: #565 albusteve
it’s archived…you remember it…if you deny it then you are lying
Full of shit, as usual.
There is something racist behind many of the calls for Obama’s academic transcripts, just as there is often something racist motivating calls for his birth certificate. Many of those who want Obama’s records firmly believe that he’s too stupid to get into those schools, or to have done well in them, and will come out and say that he’s our first affirmative action president.
Yes, those people are racists.
| 573 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:58:50pm |
re: #571 recusancy
So she’s “mysterious”? ;)
A little bit. I think it gives her depth.
She’s a classical pianist, I understand.
I may never forgive the SOB responsible for her father registering Republican, but he’s probably dead and beyond caring what I think of him.
| 574 |
iceweasel Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:59:28pm |
re: #566 McSpiff
That sure looks like you asking for people to not attack you personally. You’re a good scrapper, and theres nothing wrong with wanting a break from it. I’ll respect that.
Yeah, I missed the request for a break. Too angry about him launching personal attacks on me at the same time he called for it.
Nothing wrong with wanting a break.
| 575 |
McSpiff Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:59:46pm |
re: #570 albusteve
I never attack personally…only in retaliation or when someone is wildly out of line…the best part of it is I’m willing to be friendly with anyone and I’ve proven that…when you let it go I will too, no blood no foul…shake?
Sounds good to me.
| 576 |
albusteve Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:01:07am |
re: #572 iceweasel
Full of shit, as usual.
There is something racist behind many of the calls for Obama’s academic transcripts, just as there is often something racist motivating calls for his birth certificate. Many of those who want Obama’s records firmly believe that he’s too stupid to get into those schools, or to have done well in them, and will come out and say that he’s our first affirmative action president.
Yes, those people are racists.
well said, I see we agree as to your point of view
| 577 |
recusancy Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:02:57am |
re: #576 albusteve
well said, I see we agree as to your point of view
What do you expect to find if you got to see them? I mean really. You must suspect something.
| 578 |
SteveMcG Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:03:12am |
Would one of you guys please get in the last word already?
| 579 |
iceweasel Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:05:47am |
re: #576 albusteve
well said, I see we agree as to your point of view
You claimed I said all calls to see Obama’s records were inherently racist. That is false. And you’re doing it again.
Why don’t you drop it?
| 580 |
recusancy Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:08:06am |
re: #579 iceweasel
You claimed I said all calls to see Obama’s records were inherently racist. That is false. And you’re doing it again.
Why don’t you drop it?
Conn was doing the same thing to Charles in the video. Charles would say “many” or “most” or “a lot” and Conn would imply that Charles said “all”.
| 581 |
Mark Pennington Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:08:20am |
re: #567 SanFranciscoZionist
No clue. Her private life is extremely private. (Not that there’s anything wrong with that either, but it does confuse people in the modern age.)
I wish I could remember where I read about her owning a beautiful home with a woman for a long time. It came up when Laura Bush commented in an interview that Condi couldn’t run for President since she isn’t married or something. Not that it matters really and she is an elegant woman like you said.
| 582 |
albusteve Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:08:32am |
re: #577 recusancy
What do you expect to find if you got to see them? I mean really. You must suspect something.
I’m curious, it’s not a vendetta…the fact that I don’t particularly like the guy has little to do with it…there are few politicians I like, right side or left…I didn’t like McCain or Palin either and my post record speaks for it’self…I mistrust govt period…BO is just another guy…but I don’t appreciate being pounded for it…that’s just unnecessary
| 583 |
albusteve Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:10:42am |
re: #579 iceweasel
You claimed I said all calls to see Obama’s records were inherently racist. That is false. And you’re doing it again.
Why don’t you drop it?
I will, regardless that you said it…I’m not gonna spend an hour pulling up the post, it was a distinct issue at the time as you well know…your didge is not gonna work with me
| 584 |
Lidane Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:12:31am |
re: #568 iceweasel
It is fascinating but at this point it freaks me out. i never expected this level of hysteria, nor did I expect the GOP to turn into the total freak show that it’s become. My schadenfreude about that wore off a long time ago, because I think we really need two healthy functioning parties (at least) in a democracy.
Oh, there’s no schadenfreude on my part at all. It’s more of a morbid fascination, like when you see news footage of a multi-car pileup on a freeway, or of some sort of freakish natural disaster.
Thing is, I want a vital, engaged, rational opposition party. I’d love to see a Republican party that offered a strong, clear counter-argument to President Obama despite the fact that I voted for him. I think we need a good, solid opposition party, otherwise things get fractured or become just different shades of the same side at play.
It’s honestly a damned shame that the tea party stuff and the more freakish elements have taken over. I think it’s doing a great deal of harm, not just to the GOP, but to healthy debate in this country.
The other problem with the ODS sufferers— every single bit of information they get only confirms them in their worst suspicions about Obama. They’ll tell you that Obama wants to defund the war (seekrit Muslim! whatever), and when you show them proof that none of his actions bear out their worst suspicions, they’ll tell you it’s just proof of how devious he is.
Their theories aren’t falsifiable, ever.
Tell me about it. I heard it all over Christmas when I visited family. Hearing them talk (“Death panels! Health care will have federal funding for abortion! ZOMG!”) just made me want to bang my head against the wall. I just smiled politely and played along, since it was the holidays and I didn’t want to ruin things by causing a scene. Sometimes I’m too nice for my own good, really.
| 585 |
recusancy Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:13:48am |
re: #582 albusteve
I’m curious, it’s not a vendetta…the fact that I don’t particularly like the guy has little to do with it…there are few politicians I like, right side or left…I didn’t like McCain or Palin either and my post record speaks for it’self…I mistrust govt period…BO is just another guy…but I don’t appreciate being pounded for it…that’s just unnecessary
But you said he’s the most “mysterious”. As I stated in #454 I think he could be the least mysterious. He’s at least on par with everyone else in the not knowing every minor detail of their lives department. Using the word, mysterious, stands out.
| 586 |
BryanS Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:14:23am |
re: #584 Lidane
We were missing a sane left during much of the Bush years—allowed the wingnuts on my side of the isle to get out of hand.
| 587 |
albusteve Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:14:28am |
I’m out like Ernie Shavers…
I’ll come back tomorrow for more lame abuse
| 588 |
albusteve Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:16:21am |
re: #585 recusancy
But you said he’s the most “mysterious”. As I stated in #454 I think he could be the least mysterious. He’s at least on par with everyone else in the not knowing every minor detail of their lives department. Using the word, mysterious, stands out.
fine, it was one descriptive word…I get your point, but do you get mine?, that’s the question now
| 589 |
Lidane Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:16:28am |
re: #586 BryanS
We were missing a sane left during much of the Bush years—allowed the wingnuts on my side of the isle to get out of hand.
Oh, I agree. I’ve always been on the left side of the aisle, but some of the more outlandish nonsense said about Bush pissed me off, and I didn’t even like the guy when he was governor here, much less as President. I had more than my share of flame wars and screaming matches trying to dial some of that crap back.
| 591 |
BryanS Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:21:15am |
re: #589 Lidane
Oh, I agree. I’ve always been on the left side of the aisle, but some of the more outlandish nonsense said about Bush pissed me off, and I didn’t even like the guy when he was governor here, much less as President. I had more than my share of flame wars and screaming matches trying to dial some of that crap back.
The ranks in DC being so heavily weighted in the favor of the Dems I think will lead to pyhrric victories that will (thankfully :) harm the left for a good period of time. If only going back to the conservatives didn’t involve bringing in the social cons.
| 592 |
recusancy Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:25:51am |
re: #588 albusteve
fine, it was one descriptive word…I get your point, but do you get mine?, that’s the question now
I get you want to see his classes and grades. What I don’t get is how that makes him the most mysterious president ever.
| 593 |
iceweasel Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:26:51am |
re: #584 Lidane
Yes! Yes! To all of your comment! Especially this!
Thing is, I want a vital, engaged, rational opposition party. I’d love to see a Republican party that offered a strong, clear counter-argument to President Obama despite the fact that I voted for him. I think we need a good, solid opposition party, otherwise things get fractured or become just different shades of the same side at play.
It’s honestly a damned shame that the tea party stuff and the more freakish elements have taken over. I think it’s doing a great deal of harm, not just to the GOP, but to healthy debate in this country.
Exactly! Look at health care reform, to take but one example. Imagine if we’d had a sane opposition party that actually wanted to engage on the issues, rather than propagating bullshit like death panels and other lies. We’d probably have a better bill, and we’d damn sure have a better informed population.
Instead, we have lies cynically propagated by hacks, and a substantial number of Americans genuinely believing those lies.
I can’t tell you how angry it made me to see these seniors on medicare shaking and crying at townhalls about how they don’t want government health care, or to be euthanised. It made me sick! People are scared and want information, and the GOP and outrage merchants on the right specialise in scaring them more. It’s awful.
| 594 |
recusancy Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:30:25am |
re: #593 iceweasel
I can’t tell you how angry it made me to see these seniors on medicare shaking and crying at townhalls about how they don’t want government health care, or to be euthanised. It made me sick! People are scared and want information, and the GOP and outrage merchants on the right specialise in scaring them more. It’s awful.
Tell me about it. That’s been driving me crazy from day one on this. I keep thinking, how can they possibly get away with that shit. But they do.
| 595 |
Lidane Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:30:55am |
re: #591 BryanS
If only going back to the conservatives didn’t involve bringing in the social cons.
Personally, I wish the socons would just go off and join the Constitution Party or something, but that’s just me.
| 596 |
Gus Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:32:54am |
re: #593 iceweasel
Yes! Yes! To all of your comment! Especially this!
Exactly! Look at health care reform, to take but one example. Imagine if we’d had a sane opposition party that actually wanted to engage on the issues, rather than propagating bullshit like death panels and other lies. We’d probably have a better bill, and we’d damn sure have a better informed population.
Instead, we have lies cynically propagated by hacks, and a substantial number of Americans genuinely believing those lies.I can’t tell you how angry it made me to see these seniors on medicare shaking and crying at townhalls about how they don’t want government health care, or to be euthanised. It made me sick! People are scared and want information, and the GOP and outrage merchants on the right specialise in scaring them more. It’s awful.
The GOP did not, and has not shown even the slightest interest in talking about the cost of health care regardless of pending health care legislation. While the pretend to be the party of the working class at times they speak mostly to the status quo of industry interests.
In line item form of issues they didn’t even pursue or address it would be a) rising costs of monthly insurance premiums; b) rising cost of prescription drugs; c) health insurance rejection or pre-existing conditions; d) loss of health insurance coverage for gravely ill citizens.
In many respects they did not or do not address even those free-market aspects that affect the average American already within the sphere of health care. Instead it has been a constant drum beat of the oft mention death panels, abortion to no end, and the public option meme.
| 597 |
iceweasel Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:36:59am |
re: #594 recusancy
Tell me about it. That’s been driving me crazy from day one on this. I keep thinking, how can they possibly get away with that shit. But they do.
Exactly. I’d been putting off getting into the details of the debate early this year, and then in june ( I think?) I wound up reading HR whatever it was, because the parents of a friend had received a crazy chain email about it.
These are smart, very well-educated people, but they’re in that hardcore 28% of Bush voters, and over the years they’ve increasingly been getting their political news solely from Fox, O’Reilly, Rush. They were absolutely terrified and were calling my friend in the middle of the night demanding to know why he supported someone (Obama) who wanted them euthanised.
| 598 |
iceweasel Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:45:18am |
re: #596 Gus 802
Favourited. Excellent post.
I’ll note only that the dems are also beholden to the insurance companies, which is partly why we have a bill that is a big gift to them— but I’ve been disgusted by the way that the GOP suddenly had amnesia that even their candidate had to promise some sort of health reform. The costs facing average Americans are immense and only climbing. I personally know one family that lost its house and its savings when their son was in a very serious accident.
They had insurance. But the company decided that some of the surgery he needed was elective, and therefore they wouldn’t cover it.
The ‘elective’ surgery? Facial reconstruction. And having his jaw rebuilt.
| 599 |
Gus Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:55:09am |
re: #598 iceweasel
Favourited. Excellent post.
I’ll note only that the dems are also beholden to the insurance companies, which is partly why we have a bill that is a big gift to them— but I’ve been disgusted by the way that the GOP suddenly had amnesia that even their candidate had to promise some sort of health reform. The costs facing average Americans are immense and only climbing. I personally know one family that lost its house and its savings when their son was in a very serious accident.They had insurance. But the company decided that some of the surgery he needed was elective, and therefore they wouldn’t cover it.
The ‘elective’ surgery? Facial reconstruction. And having his jaw rebuilt.
Thanks.
It’s rather disgusting about what happened to your family member regarding the elective surgery claim for reconstructive surgery. Even more disgusting is that I’ve heard this happen to other people. I wonder what solution we would here from those with an apparent interest in the health insurance industry such perhaps, the Heritage Foundation?
The leading cause of bankruptcy in this country is due to health matters. This occurs with people that are either insured or uninsured. Even the most routine of surgeries adds up to the 10s of thousands of dollars. Some people even have to make a decision about which finger to save if theve been injured in an industrial accident and then faced with the matter by the hospital accounting department.
The odd thing of course is that the same people that are marching at the Tea Parties face the same life challenges mentioned here. However, due to false association and highly sophisticated public relations campaigns as promoted by groups like Heritage and Freedom Works, these working class Tea Party citizens are marching in effect for the dog that bites them.
| 600 |
Gus Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:59:31am |
“If poor mothers married the fathers of their children, almost three-quarters would immediately be lifted out of poverty.”
Heritage Foundation
Robert Rector
Senior Research Fellow, Domestic Policy
Misogyny.
| 601 |
Gus Sun, Jan 3, 2010 1:09:03am |
Robert A. Book, Ph.D.
Heritage Foundation
Senior Research Fellow in Health Economics
Dr. Book is a senior research fellow at Heritage. Let’s have a look at some of his Tweets from his Twitter account.
Baucus (D-MT) apparently drunk on the Senate floor speaking about health care. Taking the Kennedy legacy too seriously?
They weren’t “party crashers” — that’s so insensitive! They were “undocumented guests.”
Obama to the Taliban: I’ve got to placate the non-leftists in my country, but just hang on for another 18 months, and you’ll be home free.
is a non-prophet economist. So stop asking me to predict the future. ;-)
If the EPA wanted to prohibit flag-burning because it produces CO2 and other greenhouse gasses, would anyone object?
Massacre in Tehran — Obama says no hot dogs for the regime!
AGAIN! A big global warming protest in DC today. 5-8inches of SNOW expected. First big snow hear since Al Gore’s Senate testimony on Jan 28!
“It’s the ‘Ten Commandments,’ not the ‘Ten Suggestions’!” —George Will
Quite the serious thinker they have over at Heritage. Some of his Tweets remind me of the trolls we get at LGF.
| 602 |
iceweasel Sun, Jan 3, 2010 1:15:52am |
re: #599 Gus 802
The odd thing of course is that the same people that are marching at the Tea Parties face the same life challenges mentioned here. However, due to false association and highly sophisticated public relations campaigns as promoted by groups like Heritage and Freedom Works, these working class Tea Party citizens are marching in effect for the dog that bites them.
Exactly. I know Matt Taibbi isn’t for everyone, and the gonzo journalist style can grate on the nerves, but I think he completely nails this in this old column of his from April— I think you’d like it. Bonus excerpt:
You know you’re a peasant when you worship the very people who are right now, this minute, conning you and taking your shit.
| 603 |
Gus Sun, Jan 3, 2010 1:27:45am |
re: #602 iceweasel
Thanks for the link. We used to actually say that on the left when we saw many of the mainstream Democrats marching along for similar interests — I’ve been a Dem for most of my life. The phrases I recall are “false association” and “band aid solutions.”
False association is rampant in this country. One of the reasons if the Lotto-mentality in which many Americans sometimes think that they should look out for the wealth class because “you never know, someday I might be rich” fantasies. Of course that never happens and statistically, well, you know.
It’s like when they talk about the Bush tax cuts. What tax cut? The average amount is something in the order of a lousy $300. It’s the same with the pathetic stimulus checks they sent out. The people that benefited anything from those tax cuts aren’t even at the Tea Party marches. They’re in the background pouring money into groups like FreedomWorks to protect their own financial interests.
The reality is that if FreedomWorks gets their way, the status quo would be maintained and health insurance premiums will continue to rise and people will be declined and removed from the roles. At the same time, 40,000 uninsured people will continue to die annually. Within a 100 years, that number will be 4,000,000 people which exceed even the deaths of the Crusades of lore. Where is the “right to life” in that equation?
| 604 |
iceweasel Sun, Jan 3, 2010 1:29:03am |
re: #600 Gus 802
“If poor mothers married the fathers of their children, almost three-quarters would immediately be lifted out of poverty.”
Heritage Foundation
Robert Rector
Senior Research Fellow, Domestic PolicyMisogyny.
Good Heritage foundation finds. There’s an awful lot wrong with the Heritage Foundation. I’d love to see Charles pull it all together and do a post on them. They’re behind all kinds of dirt, such as ID and creationism stuff, but also a prime disseminator of misinformation on the health care debate.
There is also the lovely way they try to insert their wingnut domestic policy recommendations into, well, everything— such as recommending the expansion of fathbased programs as part of a policy recommendation for rebulding the Gulf Cpast post-Katrina. What?
Drill the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, suspend environmental regulations including the Clean Water Act and the Clean Air Act, suspend prevailing wage labor laws, promote vouchers and school choice, repeal the estate tax and copiously fund faith-based organizations. These are just some of the recommendations a trio of hearty Heritage Foundation senior management officials are making to best facilitate the rebuilding of the Gulf Coast,
I haven’t had time to look through all this, but this link looks like a goldmine of info on them. Scroll down for the list of artcles on them- “Original research”.
| 605 |
Gus Sun, Jan 3, 2010 1:38:36am |
re: #604 iceweasel
I haven’t had time to look through all this, but this link looks like a goldmine of info on them. Scroll down for the list of artcles on them- “Original research”.
That would be a good idea to have that at LGF.
Had to do a new search at the Media Transparency site using “Heritage Foundation.” A lot of information there. While glancing quickly over many of the names I was reminded of the outright hypocrisy we hear from the right wing namely “liberal elitism.” The right wing is replete with there own elitism (the Kochs, the Olins, the Forbes, etc.) including the 501s.
| 606 |
Gus Sun, Jan 3, 2010 1:51:27am |
Legacy: Heritage Foundation - About Us
The following is a statement from Heritage Foundation President Edwin Feulner on the death of Joseph Coors. The Colorado brewer made it possible for Heritage to open its doors with a $250,000 grant in 1972 to the think tank. Coors was the original funder of Heritage and subsequently earned the title of honorary trustee, founder and recipient of Heritage’s highest honor—the Clare Boothe Luce award…
1. In December 2001, Joseph Coors gave Ward Connerly $100,000 for his so-called “Racial Privacy Act” (Prop 54), the California ballot initiative that aims to make it illegal for any state institution to collect racial or ethnic data, making it impossible to expose patterns of discrimination.
2. When Joseph Coors established the Heritage Foundation in 1974, he chose Roger Pearson, an outspoken anti-Semite and pro-Nazi, as co- editor of the Heritage Foundation publication “Policy Review.” Pearson is the author of a racist book called “Race and Civilization,” which uses pseudoscience to falsely assert the biological inferiority of black people. Pearson has also edited or co-edited several racist and neo-Nazi magazines, as well as written and organized for the far right-wing Northern League in northern Italy.
3. Paul Weyrich, far right wing strategist and Heritage Foundation co-founder, has many ties to Nazi collaborators and neo-fascist organizations. In the 1970s, Weyrich and Joseph Coors made appointments and set up political contacts on Capitol Hill for Franz Joseph Strauss, then the Bavarian head of state, who helped émigré Nazi collaborators. The Free Congress Foundation, co-founded by Joseph Coors and Weyrich, became active in eastern European politics after the Cold War. Figuring prominently in this effort was Weyrich’s right-hand man, Laszlo Pasztor, a former leader of the pro-Nazi Arrow Cross organization in Hungary, which had collaborated with Hitler’s Reich. After serving two years in prison for his Arrow Cross activities, Pasztor found his way to the United States, where he was instrumental in establishing the ethnic-outreach arm of the Republican National Committee.
| 607 |
Vambo Sun, Jan 3, 2010 2:06:01am |
re: #606 Gus 802
wow. I think I’ll bookmark this for next time I get into a squabble about “institutionalized racism” with someone who thinks it doesn’t exist.
| 608 |
iceweasel Sun, Jan 3, 2010 2:06:57am |
re: #603 Gus 802
False association is rampant in this country. One of the reasons if the Lotto-mentality in which many Americans sometimes think that they should look out for the wealth class because “you never know, someday I might be rich” fantasies. Of course that never happens and statistically, well, you know.
Although the right screamed that not-Joe the not-Plumber was being ‘attacked’ when people looked into his personal circumstances, the above was the honest reason why it was relevant. He was fantasisng about some future world in which he would be earning 250K a year, and not dealing with the fact that Obama’s proposals would actually benefit him in this world, right now.
It applies to a lot of people though, especially the tea partiers. Why do we have people who can’t pay their bills agitating for tax breaks for the rich? Why? There’s some kind of cognitive disconnect at work.
I also know one selfproclaimed fiscal conservative who has asked me to ‘give’ them money for their bills several times—not lend— and has had no explanation for why he has no job, why he’s always three months behind on all his bills no matter how much money other friends had given him in prior months, and why he never has any plans to get a job or go to school or anything. (All of which i offered to help with, btw, rather than simply make him a present of cash every other month. Resume writing, going back to school, anything.)
I guarantee you that my ex-friend is opposed to every attempted expansion of the social safety net, btw. Certainly no awareness of why his friends might eventually be angry and suspicious about the ongoing requests for cash, which never involved calling it a loan, or any mention of ever paying it back.
| 609 |
iceweasel Sun, Jan 3, 2010 2:10:58am |
re: #605 Gus 802
That would be a good idea to have that at LGF.
Had to do a new search at the Media Transparency site using “Heritage Foundation.” A lot of information there. While glancing quickly over many of the names I was reminded of the outright hypocrisy we hear from the right wing namely “liberal elitism.” The right wing is replete with there own elitism (the Kochs, the Olins, the Forbes, etc.) including the 501s.
Oh absolutely. I made that crack about ‘wingnut welfare’ earlier, but it’s true. Look at a tool like Jonah Goldberg, who only has the connections and gigs that he’s landed because his mother is Lucienne Goldberg.
The Heritage Foundation is one of the major purveyors of ‘wingnut welfare’ — a cushy job for people who aren’t qualified to do much of anything beyond machinate talking points.
They are also, I believe, one of the main entry points for the upcoming generation of home-schooled creationist ‘conservative thinkers’ to find a foothold in the world, and a place on the national stage.
| 610 |
Gus Sun, Jan 3, 2010 2:13:57am |
The Supitd, it Hurts
The Slovenly Science: A Closer Look at “Women’s Studies”
Lydia Percival Meuret - Clair Booth Luce Policy Institute
One afternoon recently, I went to the office of the National Women’s Studies Association (NWSA) to gather some material on women’s programs in America…
The evidence is overwhelming that departments devoted to Women’s Studies are little more than political cells, their faculty and students preoccupied with ideology and causes rather than with rigorous academic questions. The sciences are deemed largely irrelevant. History courses focus on the lives of minor feminist saints rather than on the great figures and events. Classical works of literature, certainly those written by men, are ignored in favor of politically correct treatises. (Thus at Texas A&M University students in Women’s Studies 474 are required to read I, Rigoberta Menchu, the story of the life of a Guatemalan socialist lesbian.)
Some background Rigoberta Menchú Tum:
Rigoberta Menchú soon became involved in social reform activities through the Catholic Church, and became prominent in the women’s rights movement when still only a teenager. Such reform work aroused considerable opposition in influential circles, especially after a guerilla organization established itself in the area…
She’s also mentioned at the Holy See.
Grâce à Rigoberta Menchu Tum, Ambassadeur de bonne volonté de l’UNESCO; par la création d’un réseau régional de médiateurs; en aidant à la réintégration des soldats démobilisés…
And unlike Lydia Percival Meuret notes, Rigoberta Menchu Tum is not a lesbian. She’s married to a man named Angel who you can see here on the left. More here including one where she’s wearing a Darth Vader mask.
Yes, this is the same Clair Booth Luce Policy Institute associated with Heritage Foundation.
The stupid, it hurts.
| 611 |
iceweasel Sun, Jan 3, 2010 2:18:33am |
re: #610 Gus 802
The Supitd, it Hurts
Yes, this is the same Clair Booth Luce Policy Institute associated with Heritage Foundation.
The stupid, it hurts.
Typical. Of course there is a valid reason to have problems with her book, though:
She is the subject of the testimonial biography I, Rigoberta Menchú (1983) and the author of the autobiographical work, Crossing Borders. Later, American anthropologist David Stoll visited Guatemala and uncovered evidence that some of the claims in Menchú’s Nobel Prize-winning autobiography were false.
Wikipedia. I don’t remember the details about how much of it was falsified, but I seem to recall it was sufficient to have qualms about assigning her book in class.
None of this invalidates your points about how the CBL foundation is a wreck though, and wrong about RMT.
| 612 |
Bob Levin Sun, Jan 3, 2010 2:18:51am |
Very late to the party here. This is the longest I’ve seen of Charles—usually we get 2 minute drip and drabs on other media. It’s just interesting to finally get to really put a voice and face to the posts I’ve been reading for six years. And I can’t believe it’s been six years. The Dan Rather post is what first brought me here, and it’s been my primary daily newspaper since. That’s because I don’t doubt that what I read here is the straightest stuff on any media.
On the other side of the screen, this is a young man—who hasn’t had much experience with the elderly. Here’s what happens. The elderly stop eating when they feel it’s their time. Sometimes they fight off diseases that should be fatal, but they choose to fight. To think that the end of life is without choice, and that choice can be legislated out of the process—young man.
On the issue of creationism—I’m not a techie at all, so I’ve got to use another metaphor, but Charles is absolutely correct about how this affects a person’s general thought process. The creationism is like medieval art, two dimensional, stiff, and completely divorced from reality. This is the main conflict in the world today—medieval world views versus modernity.
| 613 |
Gus Sun, Jan 3, 2010 2:24:02am |
re: #611 iceweasel
Wikipedia. I don’t remember the details about how much of it was falsified, but I seem to recall it was sufficient to have qualms about assigning her book in class.
None of this invalidates your points about how the CBL foundation is a wreck though, and wrong about RMT.
Yeah, I saw that. However, apparently not all of it was said to be false.
If you read the whole screed at CBL you might get a laugh or two out of it. I have my own personal feelings about specialized studies but that’s where it ends. When you consider how much money is poured into college sports and coach salaries in the nation, women’s studies are a mere drop in the bucket.
| 614 |
freetoken Sun, Jan 3, 2010 2:28:10am |
re: #612 Bob Levin
This is the main conflict in the world today—medieval world views versus modernity.
Yes, very much so. Though not surprised by it, it was disheartening to see Conn so tone deaf to the very heart of the “culture war”.
| 615 |
Gus Sun, Jan 3, 2010 2:29:20am |
Some fun link on the Heritage Foundation!
Heritage Foundation and Intelligent Design
| 616 |
iceweasel Sun, Jan 3, 2010 2:29:37am |
re: #606 Gus 802
BTW— favourited as well, also recommended. I think Sharmuta has posted on Heritage and Weydrich, and also the Koch connection. Someone here has recently and had additional info.
re: #612 Bob Levin
On the issue of creationism—I’m not a techie at all, so I’ve got to use another metaphor, but Charles is absolutely correct about how this affects a person’s general thought process. The creationism is like medieval art, two dimensional, stiff, and completely divorced from reality. This is the main conflict in the world today—medieval world views versus modernity.
Wow, excellent metaphor and spot-on observation IMO. Slots very nicely into the creationist mindset in many ways— the rejection of modernity, the virulent anti-science, anti-intellectualism. Like the medieval worldview overall, and not only as reflected in their art. Perfect.
| 617 |
Gus Sun, Jan 3, 2010 2:31:25am |
Theme song for the Heritage Foundation
Of course they’re not really interested in truck drivers. They only want you believe that’s true.
| 618 |
Gus Sun, Jan 3, 2010 2:32:31am |
re: #616 iceweasel
BTW— favourited as well, also recommended. I think Sharmuta has posted on Heritage and Weydrich, and also the Koch connection. Someone here has recently and had additional info.
re: #612 Bob Levin
Wow, excellent metaphor and spot-on observation IMO. Slots very nicely into the creationist mindset in many ways— the rejection of modernity, the virulent anti-science, anti-intellectualism. Like the medieval worldview overall, and not only as reflected in their art. Perfect.
Thanks. Yeah, Sharmuta pointed out the intelligent design connection with Heritage last year.
| 619 |
iceweasel Sun, Jan 3, 2010 2:35:19am |
re: #614 freetoken
Yes, very much so. Though not surprised by it, it was disheartening to see Conn so tone deaf to the very heart of the “culture war”.
But don’t you think that tonedeafness is deliberate? At least in his case?
He certainly seems quite plugged into the old culture war tropes, and was extremely quick to haul them all out in various attempts to ‘corner’ Charles in some way.
| 620 |
Gus Sun, Jan 3, 2010 2:39:36am |
Heritage lecture by Robert P. George compares same sex marriage to the abolition of slavery:
Judicial Usurpation and the Constitution: Historical and Contemporary Issues
by Robert P. George
Heritage Lecture #871
…
The key battleground became the issue of homosexual conduct. Initially, the question was whether it could be legally prohibited, as it long had been by laws in the states. Eventually, the question became whether homosexual relationships and the sexual conduct around which such relationships are integrated must be accorded marital or quasi-marital status under state and federal law.
…
My own view, however, is that we need a uniform national definition of marriage as the union of one man and one woman. Here is why: Marriage is fundamental. Marriage is the basis of the family, and it is in healthy families that children are reared to be honorable people and good citizens. Therefore, marriage and the family are the basic units of society. No society can flourish when they are undermined. Until now, a social consensus regarding the basic definition of marriage meant that we did not need to resolve the question at the federal level. Every state recognized marriage as the exclusive union of one man and one woman. (The federal government did its part at one point in our history to ensure that this would remain the case by making Utah’s admission to the Union as a state conditional upon its banning polygamy.)The breakdown of the consensus certainly does not eliminate the need for a uniform national definition. If we do not have one, then marriage will erode either quickly—by judicial imposition, un-less judges are stopped—or gradually by the integration into the formal and informal institutions of society of same-sex couples who, after all, possess legally valid marriage licenses from some state.23 In the long run, it is untenable for large numbers of people to be considered married in one or some states of the United States yet unmarried in others. As Abraham Lincoln warned it would be with the evil of slavery in his time, it is inevitable that the country will go “all one way or all the other.” Slavery would either be abolished everywhere or it would spread everywhere. The same is true of same-sex “marriage,” in the long run—and perhaps even in the not-so-long run.
| 622 |
iceweasel Sun, Jan 3, 2010 2:43:22am |
re: #621 Gus 802
This is too easy.
/
There’s wingnut gold in those Heritage foundation links, Jerry! Gold!
/I’ll be back later to see what else you’ve dug up on them. Have a good night!
| 623 |
Gus Sun, Jan 3, 2010 2:44:52am |
More on Robert P. George — Heritage Foundation Lecturer — lots of craziness here:
Controversy
George was involved in a highly publicized dispute with Martha Nussbaum of the University of Chicago relating to the case Romer v. Evans in which both scholars testified as experts in moral and political philosophy and civil rights. In his testimony, George cited Nussbaum’s own published work, among many other sources, as contradicting her testimony. Expanding on George’s allegations against Nussbaum, John Finnis published an article in Academic Questions making serious charges of academic dishonesty against her. Nussbaum, in an article published in the Virginia Law Review that included an appendix co-authored with classicist Kenneth Dover, rearticulated and defended her views. George then responded to Nussbaum in an article of his own in Academic Questions, noting that Nussbaum had not addressed the specific charges of dishonesty made against her. He pointed out, as one of many examples, that although she had under oath in a written submission to the court suggested that Dover in the postscript to the second edition of his book Greek Homosexuality had retracted or revised his original statements about Socrates’s negative judgment of homosexual sodomy, the fact is that the postscript makes no mention or reference to Socrates whatsoever, and neither Nussbam nor Dover offered any explanation for that.
Religious connections
George, a Catholic, has influenced Protestant and Jewish scholars and religious leaders, as well as Catholics. Under the auspices of the Institute on Religion and Public Life, he has worked closely with such figures as the late Father Richard John Neuhaus and Rabbi David Novak, whose 2009 book In Defense of Religious Liberty is dedicated to George. His natural law arguments for traditional moral principles have frequently been invoked by evangelical Christian figures such as James Dobson and Charles Colson.
In November 2009, George signed an ecumenical statement known as the Manhattan Declaration calling on evangelicals, Catholics and Orthodox not to comply with rules and laws forcing them to accept abortion, same-sex marriage and other matters that go against their religious consciences.
| 624 |
Gus Sun, Jan 3, 2010 2:54:10am |
re: #622 iceweasel
There’s wingnut gold in those Heritage foundation links, Jerry! Gold!
/I’ll be back later to see what else you’ve dug up on them. Have a good night!
Here’s one more and I’m going to hit the sack:
Men in Black: How the Supreme Court is Destroying America
Host: Edwin Meese, III
Chairman, Center for Legal and Judicial Studies,
The Heritage Foundation
The Supreme Court endorses sodomy, terrorist rights, and importing foreign law.
Levin shares jaw-dropping examples of judicial power grabs and liberal power plays by judges, whose decades of judicial activism have made the Supreme Court the most potent threat to American freedom.
| 625 |
freetoken Sun, Jan 3, 2010 2:57:14am |
re: #619 iceweasel
But don’t you think that tonedeafness is deliberate? At least in his case?
Oh, yes. That was my whole point in describing him as “carrying water” for Heritage. Conn simply chooses to do what he does because it’s part of the program.
| 626 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Jan 3, 2010 3:00:19am |
re: #609 iceweasel
Oh absolutely. I made that crack about ‘wingnut welfare’ earlier, but it’s true. Look at a tool like Jonah Goldberg, who only has the connections and gigs that he’s landed because his mother is Lucienne Goldberg.
The Heritage Foundation is one of the major purveyors of ‘wingnut welfare’ — a cushy job for people who aren’t qualified to do much of anything beyond machinate talking points.They are also, I believe, one of the main entry points for the upcoming generation of home-schooled creationist ‘conservative thinkers’ to find a foothold in the world, and a place on the national stage.
Andy Schlafly comes to mind.
| 627 |
iceweasel Sun, Jan 3, 2010 3:55:56am |
Here’s some more fun about the heritage foundation and the use to which they put their funds: helping to bankroll the cultural warriors involved in the Terri Schiavo circus:
One year later, conservatives still cashing in on Terri Schiavo
In his book, “Using Terri: The Religious Right’s Conspiracy to Take Away Our Rights” (HarperCollins, 2005), Jon Eisenberg, an attorney working pro bono for Michael Schiavo, wrote that the case was a key battle in the religious right’s culture wars which is being fought out on “multiple fronts,” including “pushing for prayer and creationism in the public schools, and opposing stem-cell research, women’s reproductive rights, and gay civil unions and marriage.”
After visiting the Media Transparency website, Eisenberg “began to understand the think-tank machinery and its critical role in the Schiavo case. There is a money trail leading to virtually all of the lawyers for the Schindlers and Governor Jeb Bush, through more than a dozen religious Right organizations, from a handful of foundations that are quietly funding just about every ultraconservative cause on the political map.”
Eisenberg identified a “three-tiered structure” that included “seven foundations…fourteen think tanks and other religious Right organizations … and eighteen foot soldiers” behind the case:
“The foundations”—“The high command” included the Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation, Scaife family foundations, Richard and Helen DeVos Foundation, Randolph Foundation, JM Foundation, Koch family foundations, Heritage Foundation.
“In some instances,” Eisenberg wrote, “I was able to trace payments directly to a foot soldier…In other instances, I discovered broader financial connections where there was a constant flow of money to the foot soldiers, not discernibly earmarked for the Schiavo case in particular but generally financing the foot soldiers’ work in the trenches of the culture wars, thus facilitating their work in the Schiavo battle.”
| 629 |
Lidane Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:53:34am |
re: #604 iceweasel
There’s an awful lot wrong with the Heritage Foundation. I’d love to see Charles pull it all together and do a post on them. They’re behind all kinds of dirt, such as ID and creationism stuff, but also a prime disseminator of misinformation on the health care debate.
This explains so much. The same relatives that were driving me to distraction with all their crazy talk about health care over the holidays had all kinds of Heritage Foundation stuff in their house— calendars, literature, etc. I’m pretty sure that means that they donate to Heritage somehow, or that they’re members.
I don’t know much of anything about Heritage, so all the links that have been posted have been instructive.
| 630 |
im_gumby_damnit Sun, Jan 3, 2010 8:05:07am |
Charles,
I thought you did a very fine job defending your views. Mr. Carroll’s style of argument — taking everything you said and implying you agree with the extreme (e.g., “so you’re pro-suicide?”) — is very unpersuasive.
It was also interesting to hear you elucidate your views in a format other than this blog. I’m pretty clear on your views regarding social conservatism and foreign policy (I generally share them), but I don’t have a good feel for your views on fiscal/economic issues. Personally, I consider myself to be a social liberal (borderline libertarian), a foreign policy hawk and an economic conservative. I’d be curious to know your views on taxation, the deficit, expansion of government, etc.
| 631 |
Wozza Matter? Sun, Jan 3, 2010 8:31:53am |
and people still wonder why i believe the Heritage Foundation is nothing but a second rate home for political hacks who couldn’t cut it in legitimate Social Science or academic fields.
| 632 |
bratwurst Sun, Jan 3, 2010 10:32:54am |
re: #531 albusteve
you look like a bunch of school punks with all your name calling and juvenile snark
I have been a regular reader for 6 months, and there are only a small handful of posters here who indulge in more name calling than you.
| 633 |
jayzee Sun, Jan 3, 2010 10:35:15am |
I know very little about the Heritage Foundation, but after watching this video, what became really apparent to me, was that the biggest issue with Charles is over the Tea Parties. All the anger that Conn had seemed to center around that and be exacerbated by that. Sadly, I think that is because right now that is all the conservatives and the GOP think they have. It is such a shame. I think real decent GOP leadership would go a long way in this country. Instead, they have thrown in with racists, extremists, and homophobes. There was one question though, that I was surprised Conn didn’t ask. This is, what does Charles disagree with the current Obama administration on (after Charles said he disagrees with some of Obama’s policies). I think this is telling in regards to the current mindset of many on the right. It is not about fighting policies they disagree with, but regaining power. Not a unique political reality, but one that I condemned the left for and condemn the right for as well.
| 634 |
wrenchwench Mon, Jan 4, 2010 12:53:55pm |
Conn Carroll is trying to master the dishonest sum-up. Good thing he couldn’t see that Charles out-dressed him for the occasion. He might have started to sputter much sooner.
| 635 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Jan 4, 2010 1:04:43pm |
Charles I know I’m going to commit one of the cardinal sins as I make my first post and not take the time to read through all the comments, but let me give you some advice if you ever find yourself pressed to the wall by that “pro-death” argument again.
If a person is really determined to end their life, they wouldn’t bother shopping around for a doctor who is okay with it with, when instead they could just go shopping around for a gun instead!
Or a length of rope, or a suitably high bridge, much like abortion it seems like suicide however detestable is bound to happen weather we want it to or not, at least with suicide is a completely “victimless crime” since you can’t claim they’re hurting anyone besides themselves. At least unless a pregnant woman commits suicide and…. well I’ve sort of gone cross-eyed just thinking about the implications of that….
Anyway… than said, speaking as a liberal I think its wonderful to find a place like LFG, since its nice to see that your the people that we one the left can disagree with, without being disagreeable about it.
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