RedState.com is in Charge of Bloggers at CPAC

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redstate.com, home to some of the most extreme far right bloggers on the web, the site whose CEO infamously called Justice Souter a “goat-f*cking child molester,” has announced that they will be in charge of vetting and approving the bloggers for this year’s CPAC, which seems completely appropriate: We’ve got a big announcement - Erick’s blog - RedState.

So bloggers! Get your applications in soon, so you too can share the convention with creationists, militias, and the good ol’ John Birch Society! Sounds like a party, doesn’t it?

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761 comments
1 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:31:35pm

Man, why isn’t it Freep or Stormfront? >>

2 Merryweather  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:33:00pm

Man, what a slap in the face to World Nut Daily.

3 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:33:09pm

Charles have mercy the other thread hasn’t even hit 75 posts yet I can only click the “new comments” button on two different pages so quickly!

4 albusteve  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:37:05pm

yawn…wake me up when Palin is POTUS…I’ll need to make travel arrangements…fallback…a quasi neo socialists is one thing, but a haystalk sucking, berserk creationists bigot is even worse

5 Mich-again  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:37:08pm
“This is the first year Bloggers Lounge will be located inside the ballroom where the main event happens. Conservatives from across the country will hear people like Marco Rubio and Glenn Beck and bloggers will, for the first time, be in the room with them.”

Oh wow, you mean little ol’ bloggers will get to be in the same room with Glen “Rodeo Clown” Beck? Wow! What an honor that would be!
/

6 Merryweather  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:37:50pm

Seriously, this year’s CPAC has to be the largest concentration of insanity outside an actual asylum.

7 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:38:34pm

re: #6 Merryweather

Seriously, this year’s CPAC has to be the largest concentration of insanity outside an actual asylum.

Now if only they could find a way to bottle it and find someone willing to buy it the Republican Party’s fund raising problems would be over!

8 Stanley Sea  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:38:54pm

Think they paid for this honor?

9 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:40:28pm

re: #8 Stanley Sea

That’d be an interesting twist.

Its also something I’d love to know more about, ‘cuz it came up in the ‘tea party infighting email’ thread of a few days ago. There’s alot of weird money machinations going on in that movement.

10 brookly red  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:40:49pm

re: #7 jamesfirecat

Now if only they could find a way to bottle it and find someone willing to buy it the Republican Party’s fund raising problems would be over!

NJ, check… VA, check… MA, check…

11 Ericus58  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:40:50pm

I can only hope that as CPAC continues to descend into LaLa Land that not all conservatives are painted with their lunacy….

Deep breath… this too shall pass.
Hoping for sanity.

12 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:41:31pm

re: #11 Ericus58

I can only hope that as CPAC continues to descend into LaLa Land that not all conservatives are painted with their lunacy…

Deep breath… this too shall pass.
Hoping for sanity.

Oh, no, you can be assured, every person to the right of Pelosi is to be smeared with this.

13 brookly red  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:43:11pm

re: #12 Guanxi88

Oh, no, you can be assured, every person to the right of Pelosi is to be smeared with this.

what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger.

14 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:43:45pm

re: #13 brookly red

what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger.

It’s a bit tiresome, though. I wonder whether the Left has to put up with this.

15 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:43:49pm

re: #12 Guanxi88

Oh, no, you can be assured, every person to the right of Pelosi is to be smeared with this.

It might help if anyone on the right actually protested having the John Birch Society and the Oathkeepers at CPAC.

After a couple of half-hearted “wait a minutes” from people like Jonah Goldberg, the whole right wing seems to have just accepted the JBS into the fold.

16 Ericus58  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:44:17pm

Time for me to vacate LGF.
Wow - some kind of threads today… Charles, you have me a bit whipped-sawed with all the topics… I like it ;)

Be well all.

17 brookly red  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:44:47pm

re: #14 Guanxi88

It’s a bit tiresome, though. I wonder whether the Left has to put up with this.

well they be rockin in Boston…

18 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:45:42pm

re: #15 Charles

It might help if anyone on the right actually protested having the John Birch Society and the Oathkeepers at CPAC.

After a couple of half-hearted “wait a minutes” from people like Jonah Goldberg, the whole right wing seems to have just accepted the JBS into the fold.

And I’ll go at it again.

What sort of protest would be satisfactory to you? What sort of disavowal of these folk would work?

Because, as it stands, anyone and everyone is now suspect.

19 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:45:52pm

re: #14 Guanxi88

It’s a bit tiresome, though. I wonder whether the Left has to put up with this.

Hey we can’t even try and cut the military budget without being told we hate the people who defend our freedoms!

20 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:46:29pm

re: #19 jamesfirecat

Hey we can’t even try and cut the military budget without being told we hate the people who defend our freedoms!

But you do, don’t you?

//

21 brookly red  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:46:33pm

re: #18 Guanxi88

And I’ll go at it again.

What sort of protest would be satisfactory to you? What sort of disavowal of these folk would work?

Because, as it stands, anyone and everyone is now suspect.

the vote is all that matters at the end of the day…

22 avanti  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:47:14pm

re: #15 Charles

It might help if anyone on the right actually protested having the John Birch Society and the Oathkeepers at CPAC.

After a couple of half-hearted “wait a minutes” from people like Jonah Goldberg, the whole right wing seems to have just accepted the JBS into the fold.

Does this mean you are not a invited blogger ?/

23 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:47:15pm

re: #19 jamesfirecat

OH man, one time I joked that we should repurpose all our military money to NASA. I think I got like 15 downdings for that >

24 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:47:47pm

re: #21 brookly red

the vote is all that matters at the end of the day…

No, clearly it doesn’t matter. Whipping up the unschooled and benighted masses, the Teapartiers stand poised to:

a) Send this nation into a dark night of theocratic tyranny;
b) Destroy the republican party forever and ensure they’re never elected;

Or both.

25 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:47:50pm

re: #18 Guanxi88

And I’ll go at it again.

What sort of protest would be satisfactory to you? What sort of disavowal of these folk would work?

It’s very simple. The John Birch Society should have been shunned immediately. Not allowed to be a cosponsor. Same with the Oathkeepers militia group.

But they weren’t.

26 researchok  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:47:53pm

re: #15 Charles

It might help if anyone on the right actually protested having the John Birch Society and the Oathkeepers at CPAC.

After a couple of half-hearted “wait a minutes” from people like Jonah Goldberg, the whole right wing seems to have just accepted the JBS into the fold.

You know, if you make the JBS mainstream, don’t be surprised when the Weathermen get the same treatment.

And no, it isn’t a stretch.

27 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:47:59pm

re: #23 windsagio

OH man, one time I joked that we should repurpose all our military money to NASA. I think I got like 15 downdings for that >

We spend about ten times as much as the Russians are currently doing don’t we?

28 brookly red  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:48:19pm

re: #19 jamesfirecat

Hey we can’t even try and cut the military budget without being told we hate the people who defend our freedoms!


you do lock your doors, no?

29 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:48:19pm

re: #22 avanti

Does this mean you are not a invited blogger ?/

Thought they’d at least offer Charles the night shift.

30 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:48:23pm

re: #18 Guanxi88

well here, show some major right organizations disavowing them in any way.

Instead of complaining how its not fair that they can’t distance themselves, show how they are doing exactly that.

31 ryannon  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:49:03pm

re: #4 albusteve

yawn…wake me up when Palin is POTUS…I’ll need to make travel arrangements…fallback…a quasi neo socialists is one thing, but a haystalk sucking, berserk creationists bigot is even worse

Now where the hell did I hide those Krugerrands?

32 Mich-again  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:49:12pm

re: #15 Charles

Palin skipped out on CPAC because the JBS was going to be there. At least thats what Chris Cillizza said in this Washington Post blog entry. Sarah Palin and the first 2012 Republican proving ground

Interestingly, Palin also announced on Thursday that she would not be speaking at CPAC, a gathering of conservatives in Washington in mid February — a decision, according to those familiar with her thinking, due at least in part to the fact that the John Birch Society is one of the sponsors. The decision to attend SRLC but not CPAC — love those acronyms! — seems to be a rare instance of Palin refusing to play to type, bucking the grassroots for a more establishment-oriented event.
33 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:49:21pm

re: #22 avanti

Does this mean you are not a invited blogger ?/

Not this year, that’s for sure. They tried very hard to get me to attend previous CPACs.

34 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:49:38pm

re: #28 brookly red

you do lock your doors, no?

Fill out the rest of the analogy /metaphor for me because I’m not getting it.

You can have an army that is used only for defending your country if you want to you know and I bet it costs a lot less….

35 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:49:41pm

re: #26 researchok

lollollol

@

The obsession with the Weathermen. They basically died out at the end of the Vietnam War. Do Code Pink or something!

36 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:49:46pm

re: #25 Charles

It’s very simple. The John Birch Society should have been shunned immediately. Not allowed to be a cosponsor. Same with the Oathkeepers militia group.

But they weren’t.

Why should the fact that CPAC chose not to be a reflection on the party as a whole?

Or do you think the Right has wigged out at the grassroots level?

Seriously, of course the JBS folk are fringers - they always have been, and seem to revel in it. Oathkeepers - you know I hold no brief for threatened insurrectionists.

Do you think they’ve taken over the party?

37 PT Barnum  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:49:53pm

re: #24 Guanxi88

As an unrepentant progressive..one can but hope for the second.

38 The Shadow Do  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:50:18pm

re: #27 jamesfirecat

re: #23 windsagio


We spend about ten times as much as the Russians are currently doing don’t we?


Are you advocating a Russia-like military?

39 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:50:22pm

re: #32 Mich-again

Palin skipped out on CPAC because the JBS was going to be there. At least thats what Chris Cillizza said in this Washington Post blog entry. Sarah Palin and the first 2012 Republican proving ground

Yes, but Palin herself never said anything like that. That claim was attributed to “people who know Palin’s thinking.”

40 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:50:50pm

re: #35 windsagio

lollollol

@

The obsession with the Weathermen. They basically died out at the end of the Vietnam War. Do Code Pink or something!

Exactly - they’re all lecturers and such these days.

41 brookly red  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:51:36pm

re: #34 jamesfirecat

Fill out the rest of the analogy /metaphor for me because I’m not getting it.

You can have an army that is used only for defending your country if you want to you know and I bet it costs a lot less…

so I guess you don’t approve of O’s escalations in Africa & the Persian Gulf?

42 The Shadow Do  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:51:40pm

re: #40 Guanxi88

re: #35 windsagio


Exactly - they’re all lecturers and such these days.

Just folks

43 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:51:57pm

re: #34 jamesfirecat

hah, got you!

Now yer gonna get it >>


/But don’t you know? We’re in constant danger of thugs and assassins breaking in every night! FEARFEARFEAR!

44 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:51:59pm

re: #36 Guanxi88

Why should the fact that CPAC chose not to be a reflection on the party as a whole?

Are you aware that many top GOP politicians are speaking at CPAC?

45 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:52:01pm

re: #36 Guanxi88

Why should the fact that CPAC chose not to be a reflection on the party as a whole?

Or do you think the Right has wigged out at the grassroots level?

Seriously, of course the JBS folk are fringers - they always have been, and seem to revel in it. Oathkeepers - you know I hold no brief for threatened insurrectionists.

Do you think they’ve taken over the party?

Better we worry about it now then only discover it when Palin/Bucanhan winds up as the the ticket for 2012….

46 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:52:18pm

re: #30 windsagio

well here, show some major right organizations disavowing them in any way.

Instead of complaining how its not fair that they can’t distance themselves, show how they are doing exactly that.

Well, i don’t recall them currently holding any seats in the Party leadership, or, indeed, at the national level. Perhaps there’s no way to chuck them out definitively, but for pete’s sake, they’re not in the driver’s seat.

47 brookly red  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:52:33pm

re: #38 The Shadow Do

Are you advocating a Russia-like military?

personally I would prefer one that works…

48 The Shadow Do  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:52:47pm

re: #47 brookly red

re: #38 The Shadow Do


personally I would prefer one that works…

Fuck you

49 Stanley Sea  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:52:50pm

re: #39 Charles

Yes, but Palin herself never said anything like that. That claim was attributed to “people who know Palin’s thinking.”

Yeah, I heard it was because of a Fed-Ex / UPS issue that the leader of CPAC was involved with. Not JBS.

50 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:52:51pm

re: #41 brookly red

so I guess you don’t approve of O’s escalations in Africa & the Persian Gulf?

I’m not saying that we have to have that, I’m saying that it’s a possibility your “do you lock your door” question seemed to suggest if we cut our military it would leave us without deffences of any kind.

51 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:53:20pm

re: #44 Charles

Are you aware that many top GOP politicians are speaking at CPAC?

They are, and why wouldn’t they? Don’t these fringe fanatics and lunatics represent the very heart and sould of the modern Republican party?

Which is it? Are they the death of the party, or wildly popular?

52 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:53:29pm

re: #46 Guanxi88

thats a different thing entirely. We’re talking about them disavowing them.

Show me them saying that these people are damaging, or bad, or anything like that.

53 Velvet Elvis  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:53:51pm

re: #26 researchok

You know, if you make the JBS mainstream, don’t be surprised when the Weathermen get the same treatment.

And no, it isn’t a stretch.

The Weathermen haven’t existed since before I was born.

You need a new leftist boogyman

54 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:54:08pm

re: #38 The Shadow Do

Are you advocating a Russia-like military?

No I’m just pointing out that maybe we’re over spending on military equipment or buying the wrong kind of equipment these days.

The F-22 is the perfect example, its a fantastic jet fighter don’t get me wrong, but how is it useful in the war on terror?

What is so great about a plane that is invisible to radar when your foes don’t even have radar to start with?

55 brookly red  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:54:14pm

re: #48 The Shadow Do

Fuck you

hahahah you and what army? Razzzzzzzzzzzzz

56 Stanley Sea  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:54:15pm

re: #35 windsagio

lollollol

@

The obsession with the Weathermen. They basically died out at the end of the Vietnam War. Do Code Pink or something!

OK, so I looked up Code Pink and Net Roots (I guess Net Roots could be on the par of CPAC?) Found in 2008 Code Pink protested the stage when Pelosi spoke.

57 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:54:20pm

re: #53 Conservative Moonbat

The Weathermen haven’t existed since before I was born.

You need a new leftist boogyman

1) Then you’re young
2) We elected one, remember?

58 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:54:41pm

re: #51 Guanxi88

They are, and why wouldn’t they? Don’t these fringe fanatics and lunatics represent the very heart and sould of the modern Republican party?

Which is it? Are they the death of the party, or wildly popular?

They corrupt the GOP…

59 The Shadow Do  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:54:51pm

re: #54 jamesfirecat

re: #38 The Shadow Do


No I’m just pointing out that maybe we’re over spending on military equipment or buying the wrong kind of equipment these days.

The F-22 is the perfect example, its a fantastic jet fighter don’t get me wrong, but how is it useful in the war on terror?

What is so great about a plane that is invisible to radar when your foes don’t even have radar to start with?

This is not being developed to fight todays war.

60 cronus  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:55:11pm

I’m not sure why this guest list should be surprising. CPAC is a gathering of professional rage mongers and their acolytes. It may be mandatory cattle call for Republican leaders but I doubt most rank and file Republicans even know what it is if they have heard of it at all.

61 brookly red  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:55:14pm

re: #50 jamesfirecat

I’m not saying that we have to have that, I’m saying that it’s a possibility your “do you lock your door” question seemed to suggest if we cut our military it would leave us without deffences of any kind.

well yes…

62 researchok  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:55:22pm

re: #53 Conservative Moonbat

The Weathermen haven’t existed since before I was born.

You need a new leftist boogyman

You know what I meant.

63 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:55:43pm

re: #58 HoosierHoops

They corrupt the GOP…

There surely do seem to be quite a few of them. Perhaps the Party needs to bring folks back from the edge and back into the mainstream.

The Left did the same thing with its own fringe elements. It’s the pattern of politics.

64 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:55:52pm

re: #59 The Shadow Do

This is not being developed to fight todays war.

Oh who is tommorows war going to be with then?

65 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:56:22pm

re: #64 jamesfirecat

Oh who is tommorows war going to be with then?

Well, if we knew that, we might be able to have a perfect answer to the military problem

66 Mich-again  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:56:27pm

re: #39 Charles

Yes, but Palin herself never said anything like that. That claim was attributed to “people who know Palin’s thinking.”

On a related note, neither she nor anyone on her staff has explained to us all why Robert Stacy McCain can’t get anywhere near her for an interview. He has openly complained about that in his blog.

67 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:56:49pm

re: #61 brookly red

well yes…

I wasn’t suggesting we cut it to zero, I’m suggesting we cut it some and trim the fat from projects we don’t really need, more Predator Drones, fewer F-22’s as much as that might upset some jet jocks.

68 Stanley Sea  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:57:20pm

re: #57 Guanxi88

1) Then you’re young
2) We elected one, remember?

Obama is now a Weatherman? Oh wow.

69 brookly red  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:57:31pm

re: #64 jamesfirecat

Oh who is tommorows war going to be with then?

well how’s about we start by figuring out who we are fighting today?

70 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:57:52pm

re: #68 Stanley Sea

Obama is now a Weatherman? Oh wow.

No, he’s a bogeyman. he’s too young to be a weatherman.

71 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:57:55pm

re: #67 jamesfirecat

the actual problem is hte way that that spending is propping up the economy in many parts of the country. We don’t dare stop building those jets >>

72 The Shadow Do  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:58:31pm

re: #64 jamesfirecat

re: #59 The Shadow Do


Oh who is tommorows war going to be with then?

The threat you perceive today will not be the one that gets you. This cycle of disarmament in the face of todays threat is a lesson in dumb that repeats and repeats and repeats. Futile I know to argue against.

73 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:58:39pm

re: #46 Guanxi88

Well, i don’t recall them currently holding any seats in the Party leadership, or, indeed, at the national level. Perhaps there’s no way to chuck them out definitively, but for pete’s sake, they’re not in the driver’s seat.

Here’s what I would do if I learned a group like the John Birch Society was involved with an event I was scheduled to speak at: I would immediately cancel my appearance, and issue a public statement about it, condemning the organizers for letting such a hate group be part of the convention.

That won’t happen with today’s GOP, though, because they’re openly and actively courting these extremist groups.

74 Stanley Sea  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:58:53pm

re: #70 Guanxi88

No, he’s a bogeyman. he’s too young to be a weatherman.

I misunderstood then, who were you talking about electing?

75 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:59:14pm

This weathermen thing is a classic example of the generation gap.

gen X’ers and Y’ers and (whatever comes next) are tired of boomers constantly arguing about vietnam.

76 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:59:35pm

re: #74 Stanley Sea

I misunderstood then, who were you talking about electing?

Obama is the new bogeyman.

77 Mich-again  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:59:36pm

I found this gem of a quote from Lisa DePasquale, CPAC director. MinnPost: Pawlenty, CPAC and the John Birch Society

The JBS has not been a co-sponsor of previous CPACs, but DePasquale said they met the crieria, they “seem to be on our side,” and she didn’t think they should be shunned over things they said and did 50 years ago. “Most of the people on both sides of those arguments are dead,” she added.

The stupid, it burns.

78 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:59:36pm

re: #65 Guanxi88

Well, if we knew that, we might be able to have a perfect answer to the military problem

Well we’ve already got over 100 of them and they’re the best fighter out there, I don’t think we really need more, we especially don’t need more when we could be using the money to buy the tools we need for today’s war.

Simplicity.

Trying to build the weapons of tommorow’s war (Assault rifles, ICBMs, jet powered aircraft) while fighting today’s war is a big part of why Germany lost WW2.

79 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 5:59:48pm

re: #64 jamesfirecat

Oh who is tommorows war going to be with then?

Grand Fenwick.

80 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:00:01pm

re: #73 Charles

Here’s what I would do if I learned a group like the John Birch Society was involved with an event I was scheduled to speak out: I would immediately cancel my appearance, and issue a public statement about it, condemning the organizers for letting such a hate group be part of the convention.

That won’t happen with today’s GOP, though, because they’re openly and actively courting these extremist groups.

They should be courting us Moderates..We Carry Elections 99.9% of the time

81 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:00:33pm

re: #69 brookly red

well how’s about we start by figuring out who we are fighting today?

The extremeists who are frequently but not always Islamic in Afghanistan and Iraq who attack the hopefully democratic governments we’re trying to set up there?

82 The Shadow Do  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:00:38pm

re: #75 windsagio

This weathermen thing is a classic example of the generation gap.

gen X’ers and Y’ers and (whatever comes next) are tired of boomers constantly arguing about vietnam.

Odd as it may seem, the legacy of Vietnam is you. Your mentors were marinated in it.

83 brookly red  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:00:42pm

re: #67 jamesfirecat

I wasn’t suggesting we cut it to zero, I’m suggesting we cut it some and trim the fat from projects we don’t really need, more Predator Drones, fewer F-22’s as much as that might upset some jet jocks.

but the drones are working (hate to give O the credit) and the F-22’s are already cut despite the fact the Russians just rolled out their new bird. Should we fall back on nukes? I mean O has already authorized the upgrade…

84 Mich-again  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:01:09pm

re: #53 Conservative Moonbat

The Weathermen haven’t existed since before I was born.

You need a new leftist boogyman

Weathermen can still be boogymen, but only in the climate change debate.

85 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:01:26pm

re: #73 Charles

Here’s what I would do if I learned a group like the John Birch Society was involved with an event I was scheduled to speak out: I would immediately cancel my appearance, and issue a public statement about it, condemning the organizers for letting such a hate group be part of the convention.

That won’t happen with today’s GOP, though, because they’re openly and actively courting these extremist groups.

Why do you suppose they’re courting them? Is it that so many people are radicalized, or was the American Right always a host to these types, and now they’ve got the upper hand?

86 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:01:29pm

re: #71 windsagio

the actual problem is hte way that that spending is propping up the economy in many parts of the country. We don’t dare stop building those jets >>

F***! Can’t we at least have our pork laden projects turn out weapons that are actually useful?

Well its too late now, Obama cut F-22 production…

87 brookly red  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:02:03pm

re: #78 jamesfirecat

Well we’ve already got over 100 of them and they’re the best fighter out there, I don’t think we really need more, we especially don’t need more when we could be using the money to buy the tools we need for today’s war.

Simplicity.

Trying to build the weapons of tommorow’s war (Assault rifles, ICBMs, jet powered aircraft) while fighting today’s war is a big part of why Germany lost WW2.

you are delusional

88 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:02:53pm

re: #86 jamesfirecat

to spend it on some other military program >>

89 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:02:59pm

re: #85 Guanxi88

Why do you suppose they’re courting them? Is it that so many people are radicalized, or was the American Right always a host to these types, and now they’ve got the upper hand?

I dont know “why.” I just know what’s happening in the real world, and the GOP has now become a party that welcomes extremists.

90 The Shadow Do  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:03:39pm

The young bring much energy and zeal in the search for wisdom…along with that big bunch of stupid that comes with it.

91 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:03:51pm

re: #73 Charles

Here’s what I would do if I learned a group like the John Birch Society was involved with an event I was scheduled to speak out: I would immediately cancel my appearance, and issue a public statement about it, condemning the organizers for letting such a hate group be part of the convention.

JBS are many, many things, but they never struck me as a “hate group”. Perhaps you know something I don’t.

92 Racer X  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:03:57pm

Sheesh. That does it. I’m no longer aligning myself with anyone on the webs. In fact, I barely tolerate most of you here.

;-)

93 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:04:11pm

re: #89 Charles

They think they can get votes is my thing. Especially after Brown, but even before, the Republican Party thinks they can treat the birchers like they treated the abortion/gay marriage lobby for most of the ’90s and 2000s.

94 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:04:21pm

re: #77 Mich-again

I found this gem of a quote from Lisa DePasquale, CPAC director. MinnPost: Pawlenty, CPAC and the John Birch Society

The stupid, it burns.

Yeah, this has been a painful process to watch over the past year. It’ll be interesting to see how much permanent damage will be done to American conservatism. Much of the Birch Society stuff has been lurking under the surface and never really went away completely. It’s going to take a lot of re-education to undo the ideas of Glenn Beck, Ron Paul and the Birch society.

95 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:06:05pm

re: #89 Charles

I dont know “why.” I just know what’s happening in the real world, and the GOP has now become a party that welcomes extremists.

Well, if it’s a bad idea, let them go ahead and run with it. They’ll lose spectacularly, and that’ll be the Republican party’s McGovern moment.

As for welcoming extremists - well, every party puts up with nonsense within its own electorate that are shocking offenses and threats to the common weal when the other guy does it.

96 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:06:42pm

re: #83 brookly red

but the drones are working (hate to give O the credit) and the F-22’s are already cut despite the fact the Russians just rolled out their new bird. Should we fall back on nukes? I mean O has already authorized the upgrade…

Is the Russian New Bird better than the F-22?

Because if it isn’t then we don’t really need to worry about upgrading to the F-23 with optional DVD player to keep you entertained through the long trip through enemy airspace.

My point is look at the military budget, find the projects that are working and are needed in this war and keep them, find the ones that are too “pie in the sky” to have realistic usefulness in the near future, or aren’t needed in this war and cut them, we can fund those kinds of project when we’re not running a defficit which I think has a double digit number of zeroes in it.

97 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:07:07pm

re: #87 brookly red

you are delusional

In what way?

98 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:07:38pm

re: #91 Guanxi88

JBS are many, many things, but they never struck me as a “hate group”. Perhaps you know something I don’t.

When a group claims that Dwight Eisenhower was a secret communist trying to pervert American values, I tend to consider them a “hate group.”

That’s just one of MANY examples of their bizarre ideology, by the way. The rehabilitation of the John Birch Society is utterly appalling, and yes, they’re a hate group.

99 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:07:43pm

re: #83 brookly red

wait, you’re concerned with a conventional war against Russia?

Geeze

100 avanti  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:08:23pm

re: #86 jamesfirecat

F***! Can’t we at least have our pork laden projects turn out weapons that are actually useful?

Well its too late now, Obama cut F-22 production…

Congress has to build more cargo planes the military, and the DOD don’t want. I read they are built in 47 states, so they’ll keep shoving them down the militarizes throat.

101 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:08:25pm

re: #99 windsagio

man and earlier I was talking about people still living in the past…

102 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:09:23pm

re: #72 The Shadow Do

The threat you perceive today will not be the one that gets you. This cycle of disarmament in the face of todays threat is a lesson in dumb that repeats and repeats and repeats. Futile I know to argue against.

So what America needs to be that drunk guy in the bar “Hey you, did you just look at me funny, I’ll kick your ass!” Who is ready to take on any and all comers at the drop of a hat?

103 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:09:44pm

re: #95 Guanxi88

Well, if it’s a bad idea, let them go ahead and run with it. They’ll lose spectacularly, and that’ll be the Republican party’s McGovern moment.

As for welcoming extremists - well, every party puts up with nonsense within its own electorate that are shocking offenses and threats to the common weal when the other guy does it.

Right … just roll over and go back to sleep! Nothing to worry about.

104 The Shadow Do  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:10:01pm

re: #102 jamesfirecat

re: #72 The Shadow Do


So what America needs to be that drunk guy in the bar “Hey you, did you just look at me funny, I’ll kick your ass!” Who is ready to take on any and all comers at the drop of a hat?

James, that is just stupid. Sorry.

105 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:10:03pm

It’s a conspiracy!
Breitbart Claim: Jailed O’Keefe Couldn’t Access Attorney For Hours

He (Breitbart) accused the U.S. attorney of leaking information to the media in a “concerted effort” to frame the episode in a way that would put O’Keefe in a bad position.

Asked by Fox’s Megyn Kelly what motivation the U.S. Attorney would have to make such an effort, Breitbart responded: “Well, it’s tied to the Justice Department. And we’ve been very aggressive in asking Eric Holder to investigate what’s seen on the ACORN tapes, and he’s ignored it.”

I’m thinking Breitbart is probably involved in the phone tampering stunt. If He wasn’t he’d just throw the kid under the bus.

106 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:10:15pm

re: #100 avanti

Congress has to build more cargo planes the military, and the DOD don’t want. I read they are built in 47 states, so they’ll keep shoving them down the militarizes throat.

Well hopefully we can at least use those Cargo planes for something rather than having them sit in hangers like the F-22’s are at the moment, unless anyone can tell me I’m wrong and we are using them for something right now….

107 brookly red  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:10:28pm

re: #99 windsagio

wait, you’re concerned with a conventional war against Russia?

Geeze

no, wars are fought by proxy… we just sold 80 F-16’s to UAE, who are the Russians going to sell their toys to? Having the newest stuff does count.

108 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:10:32pm

re: #98 Charles

When a group claims that Dwight Eisenhower was a secret communist trying to pervert American values, I tend to consider them a “hate group.”

That’s just one of MANY examples of their bizarre ideology, by the way. The rehabilitation of the John Birch Society is utterly appalling, and yes, they’re a hate group.

I think the whole Ike thing was over the top. As I recall, Welch said he was either a Red or a stooge of the Reds.

When I think “hate group,” though, I tend to think racial, religious, or sexual orientation type of stuff.

109 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:10:45pm

re: #104 The Shadow Do

James, that is just stupid. Sorry.

Well tell me why we need the F-22 in plain (ouch sorry didn’t intend the pun) language!

110 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:11:03pm

re: #109 jamesfirecat

Well tell me why we need the F-22 in plain (ouch sorry didn’t intend the pun) language!

Why we need more F-22s sorry, that was what I meant to argue…

111 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:11:32pm

re: #107 brookly red

ok fine, who do you expect us to get into a war with that can afford top of the line Jets?


“Just somebody maybe” shouldn’t cut it.

/they are cool toys tho’

112 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:11:49pm

re: #103 Charles

Right … just roll over and go back to sleep! Nothing to worry about.


Seriously, Charles, i don’t get this. If they’re a tiny deluded fringe who spell the death of the Party, so be it.

If the base is that radicalized, why shouldn’t the national party try to bring these people under control?

113 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:11:57pm

re: #100 avanti

Snip.

they are built in 47 states,

That’s course content at Defense Acquisition University.

114 brookly red  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:13:02pm

re: #109 jamesfirecat

Well tell me why we need the F-22 in plain (ouch sorry didn’t intend the pun) language!

cause they work?

115 avanti  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:13:21pm

re: #106 jamesfirecat

Well hopefully we can at least use those Cargo planes for something rather than having them sit in hangers like the F-22’s are at the moment, unless anyone can tell me I’m wrong and we are using them for something right now…

They are way cool, but useless in 21th century wars. You could outfit 1000’s of grunts on the ground for what on of those babies cost.

116 Mich-again  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:13:37pm

Heres a funny take from Lisa De Pasquale about the 2007 Netroots Convention.
Nutroots’ Success Doesn’t Run Deep by Lisa De Pasquale

HuffingtonPost.com and DailyKos.com will never reach the depths of Drudge because they are the county fair freak shows. At some point, everyone – liberal and conservative, young and old – goes in to gawk at the freaks. On their way out, reasonable people will agree that while it might have been entertaining for a few seconds, it was also a waste of time (and money).

So what does she do? Why she goes and organizes her own freak show!

117 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:13:48pm

re: #112 Guanxi88

do you mean ‘should’?

Because if you meant ‘shouldn’t’ thats what everyone else is asking :p

Otherwise they should get them under control because its good longterm planning, if nothing else.

118 brookly red  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:13:51pm

re: #111 windsagio

ok fine, who do you expect us to get into a war with that can afford top of the line Jets?

“Just somebody maybe” shouldn’t cut it.

/they are cool toys tho’

you do lock your doors, don’t you?

119 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:13:53pm

re: #108 Guanxi88

I think the whole Ike thing was over the top. As I recall, Welch said he was either a Red or a stooge of the Reds.

When I think “hate group,” though, I tend to think racial, religious, or sexual orientation type of stuff.

Their attack on civil rights legislation was more than constitutional theory.

120 Racer X  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:14:22pm

re: #112 Guanxi88

Seriously, Charles, i don’t get this. If they’re a tiny deluded fringe who spell the death of the Party, so be it.

If the base is that radicalized, why shouldn’t the national party try to bring these people under control?

Exactly.

But the GOP is not. They are embracing the fringe.

*puke*

121 The Shadow Do  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:14:43pm

re: #110 jamesfirecat

re: #109 jamesfirecat


Why we need more F-22s sorry, that was what I meant to argue…


The Russians are rolling out stealth and they will be sold to their friends. This Chinese are pushing our defense contractors in a move to leave Taiwan exposed. The Iranians and Israeal needs needs no further comment regarding the potential global catastrophe. Even Chavez is punching the President in the shoulder.

I never though Biden could make sense, but we are being tested.

The world is not benign, not to the US. It never will be.

It behooves us to clench a fist now and again, contrary to the opinion of some.

122 Kruk  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:15:00pm

re: #119 Decatur Deb

Their attack on civil rights legislation was more than constitutional theory.

Heh. Colour me shocked.

123 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:15:14pm

re: #117 windsagio

do you mean ‘should’?

Because if you meant ‘shouldn’t’ thats what everyone else is asking :p

Otherwise they should get them under control because its good longterm planning, if nothing else.

I say that trying to bring them under control is a damned sight harder when you’re calling them a bunch of names and saying they’re the death of everything good and decent and wholesome to a bunch of people who maybe aren’t as well-informed as they ought to be.

Only way to bring them under control is to get their followers to see you’re no threat, and then co-opt and assume their leadership.

124 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:15:30pm

re: #118 brookly red

- for repetition.

I do, but I’m not the kind of person the insurance companies can sucker with flashy gadgets.

I’d rather have the most effective system, not the one that gives me the biggest high-tech boner.

125 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:15:54pm

re: #119 Decatur Deb

Their attack on civil rights legislation was more than constitutional theory.

Fair enough. But that was then, and a long time ago. The same could be said for many Donks.

126 brookly red  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:16:13pm

re: #118 brookly red

you do lock your doors, don’t you?

so I suppose you have a sign out in front of your house that says gun free zone too? dontcha?

127 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:16:39pm

re: #114 brookly red

cause they work?

But we aren’t using them against anybody, nor does it seem like we’re going to need to use them against anybody!

Do we need to keep building buggies in this country? Do we need to keep building P-51 Mustangs? Those both “work” just fine also but we don’t because there are other alternatives!

In fact you can argue that the F-22’s don’t “work” because we’re not getting any “work” out of them!

128 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:17:09pm

re: #123 Guanxi88

I’d say that the GOP is intentionally selling the longterm out for the shortterm by courting these guys. We can argue about whether and how they should curb the movement, but the ugly thing is they don’t want to.

re: #125 Guanxi88

“You know, MLK was a republican!!!”

129 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:17:12pm

re: #123 Guanxi88

I say that trying to bring them under control is a damned sight harder when you’re calling them a bunch of names and saying they’re the death of everything good and decent and wholesome to a bunch of people who maybe aren’t as well-informed as they ought to be.

Only way to bring them under control is to get their followers to see you’re no threat, and then co-opt and assume their leadership.

I guess you disagree with William F. Buckley, then, who made it very clear that the best place for the John Birch Society was as far away from the GOP as possible. You think they should be embraced and “controlled.”

Good luck with that.

130 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:17:25pm

Erick Erickson and Lars Larson need to take their act on the road.

131 brookly red  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:17:25pm

re: #124 windsagio

- for repetition.

I do, but I’m not the kind of person the insurance companies can sucker with flashy gadgets.

I’d rather have the most effective system, not the one that gives me the biggest high-tech boner.

well that would be nukes… have a nice day.

132 Racer X  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:17:36pm

re: #124 windsagio

- for repetition.

I do, but I’m not the kind of person the insurance companies can sucker with flashy gadgets.

I’d rather have the most effective system, not the one that gives me the biggest high-tech boner.

Heh.

Reagan whipped out plans for Star Wars satellite missile defense and the soviets folded. Quite the boner I think.

133 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:17:43pm
I guess you disagree with William F. Buckley, then, who made it very clear that the best place for the John Birch Society was as far away from the GOP as possible. You think they should be embraced and “controlled.”

Good luck with that.

yep, you read my mind perfectly.

Try that with someone else.

134 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:18:35pm

re: #125 Guanxi88

Fair enough. But that was then, and a long time ago. The same could be said for many Donks.

Most of those surviving Donks changed parties. I’m surrounded by them.
(Byrd either got religion or a better vote-counter.)

135 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:18:38pm

re: #132 Racer X

lol now its Reagan?

He spent them into the ground (and really on sped their collapse, rather than causing it). He could have spent if on twinkies and it would have worked… Well, if twinkies scared the Soviets ;)

136 Gus  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:19:05pm

re: #96 jamesfirecat

Is the Russian New Bird better than the F-22?

Because if it isn’t then we don’t really need to worry about upgrading to the F-23 with optional DVD player to keep you entertained through the long trip through enemy airspace.

My point is look at the military budget, find the projects that are working and are needed in this war and keep them, find the ones that are too “pie in the sky” to have realistic usefulness in the near future, or aren’t needed in this war and cut them, we can fund those kinds of project when we’re not running a defficit which I think has a double digit number of zeroes in it.

I doubt it. The SU-30 is plagued with problems. Incidentally, the total final numbers of F-22s (187) will exceed those of Russian SU-30s (64 + 19). Two things of course is that it’s a flawed aircraft (the SU-30) and we’re not at war with Russia.

The F-35 project is going slow including the recent firing of the general in charge by Dod Secretary Gates. Gates was the man behind the cancellation of the F-22 and Lockheed Martin was more than happy to comply because that meant more money with their F-35 project. Unit price of an F-35 while high at 80 million each is still a lot lower than the F-22 at over 120 million each.

The talk now is of 4th generation combat. This is not only coming from the civilian side of the DoD but by military leaders with experience in Iraq and Afghanistan. The F-35 itself exceeds or does not meet these requirements and the cheaper and slower A-10 and attack helicopters fit those requirements.

137 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:19:19pm

re: #133 Guanxi88

yep, you read my mind perfectly.

Try that with someone else.

You mean you didn’t write that the JBS should be controlled? Gee, I thought I read a comment from you saying exactly that. Is someone impersonating you?

138 Racer X  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:19:25pm

re: #135 windsagio

lol now its Reagan?

He spent them into the ground (and really on sped their collapse, rather than causing it). He could have spent if on twinkies and it would have worked… Well, if twinkies scared the Soviets ;)

Hey what ever works, baby!

139 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:20:07pm

re: #121 The Shadow Do

The Russians are rolling out stealth and they will be sold to their friends. This Chinese are pushing our defense contractors in a move to leave Taiwan exposed. The Iranians and Israeal needs needs no further comment regarding the potential global catastrophe. Even Chavez is punching the President in the shoulder.

I never though Biden could make sense, but we are being tested.

The world is not benign, not to the US. It never will be.

It behooves us to clench a fist now and again, contrary to the opinion of some.

Once again as I mentioned earlier, do you know one big reason why Germany lost WW2? Because they kept spending money on stuff that was too far ahead of its time to be mass produced effectively!

When you try to fight the war of today with the wonder weapons of tomorrow, you loose.

The F-22 has no place in the war on terror we already have a bunch of them sitting in the hangers, should we start mass producing nukes in case we need a few more of those also?

140 Kruk  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:20:19pm

re: #121 The Shadow Do

The Russians are rolling out stealth and they will be sold to their friends. This Chinese are pushing our defense contractors in a move to leave Taiwan exposed. The Iranians and Israeal needs needs no further comment regarding the potential global catastrophe. Even Chavez is punching the President in the shoulder.

I never though Biden could make sense, but we are being tested.

The world is not benign, not to the US. It never will be.

It behooves us to clench a fist now and again, contrary to the opinion of some.

The Russsians are “rolling out stealth” in the sense that they’ve just a flown a prototype with slightly sweaked Su-27 engines and no new avionics. (The avionics matter, it doesn’t do much good to slap RAM on your fuselage if your own radar is telling everyone where you are.) They’re where the YF-22 was in the 80s, and they’ve got far less money to make an operational fighter than the USAF did.

Besides, is everyone forgetting that the F-22 isn’t the only stealth fighter in the works? The F-35 might not have all the bells and whistles, but it’s way ahead of anything any other country has, and it’s a multi-role fighter that’s going to be built in thousands.

141 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:20:44pm

re: #103 Charles

Right … just roll over and go back to sleep! Nothing to worry about.

Now wait just one damned minute.

BHO has call banks in Gaza supporting his campaign - it’s a nontroversy

He’s got appointees and advisors and friends and such who shoot their mouths off all over the place with a bunch of dangerous, deluded and nonsensical noise - and it’s a nontroversy.

We’ve got a president surrounded by folk who are radicals (and who revel in it, until called on it) and yet, no cause for concern.

But the JBS at the CPAC? Well, that’s the end of the world, ain’t it?

142 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:21:08pm

re: #138 Racer X

fair enough :D Just sayin’ it didn’t really have to be flashy tech.

143 brookly red  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:21:14pm

re: #139 jamesfirecat

Once again as I mentioned earlier, do you know one big reason why Germany lost WW2? Because they kept spending money on stuff that was too far ahead of its time to be mass produced effectively!

When you try to fight the war of today with the wonder weapons of tomorrow, you loose.

The F-22 has no place in the war on terror we already have a bunch of them sitting in the hangers, should we start mass producing nukes in case we need a few more of those also?

O has already approved the funding so you tell me?

144 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:21:30pm

re: #129 Charles

I guess you disagree with William F. Buckley, then, who made it very clear that the best place for the John Birch Society was as far away from the GOP as possible. You think they should be embraced and “controlled.”

Good luck with that.

And that never happened, the Birchers have been hanging around the edges of the GOP almost since their inception.

I’m curious to know how much influence that they have had on the GOP since 1958.

How much of the GOP’s agenda has been shaped by the Birchers, in the past and currently? How many conservatives are actually members of the John Birch Society and what effect will they have on the future of the GOP based on their past influence?

145 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:21:37pm

re: #136 Gus 802

I doubt it. The SU-30 is plagued with problems. Incidentally, the total final numbers of F-22s (187) will exceed those of Russian SU-30s (64 + 19). Two things of course is that it’s a flawed aircraft (the SU-30) and we’re not at war with Russia.

The F-35 project is going slow including the recent firing of the general in charge by Dod Secretary Gates. Gates was the man behind the cancellation of the F-22 and Lockheed Martin was more than happy to comply because that meant more money with their F-35 project. Unit price of an F-35 while high at 80 million each is still a lot lower than the F-22 at over 120 million each.

The talk now is of 4th generation combat. This is not only coming from the civilian side of the DoD but by military leaders with experience in Iraq and Afghanistan. The F-35 itself exceeds or does not meet these requirements and the cheaper and slower A-10 and attack helicopters fit those requirements.

Ah the A-1- Warthog, it’s not going to do some fancy loop de loop to try and show you how big its pilots dick is, it’ll just f*** up your shit and go home!

badassoftheweek.com

146 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:22:02pm

re: #137 Charles

You mean you didn’t write that the JBS should be controlled? Gee, I thought I read a comment from you saying exactly that. Is someone impersonating you?

No, you willfully misquote. Your assertion that I don’t agree with the sainted Buckley.

The only way to control these jackasses now is to co-opt them, as they are the natural response to the party’s failures and half-assed work to date.

147 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:22:26pm

re: #141 Guanxi88

Now wait just one damned minute.

BHO has call banks in Gaza supporting his campaign - it’s a nontroversy

He’s got appointees and advisors and friends and such who shoot their mouths off all over the place with a bunch of dangerous, deluded and nonsensical noise - and it’s a nontroversy.

We’ve got a president surrounded by folk who are radicals (and who revel in it, until called on it) and yet, no cause for concern.

But the JBS at the CPAC? Well, that’s the end of the world, ain’t it?

Not for you, evidently.

148 The Shadow Do  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:22:49pm

re: #139 jamesfirecat

re: #121 The Shadow Do


Once again as I mentioned earlier, do you know one big reason why Germany lost WW2? Because they kept spending money on stuff that was too far ahead of its time to be mass produced effectively!

When you try to fight the war of today with the wonder weapons of tomorrow, you loose.

The F-22 has no place in the war on terror we already have a bunch of them sitting in the hangers, should we start mass producing nukes in case we need a few more of those also?

Real bad analogy. We do not need to build weapons out of desperation. You seem to argue we should accept a so so military. Should be good enough for now, no?

149 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:22:51pm

re: #108 Guanxi88

I think the whole Ike thing was over the top. As I recall, Welch said he was either a Red or a stooge of the Reds.

When I think “hate group,” though, I tend to think racial, religious, or sexual orientation type of stuff.

So if your organization hates many things, you’re not a hate group? They are racists, anti-Jew, and they hate gays.

Hate group!

150 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:22:52pm

re: #147 Charles

Not for you, evidently.

I’m sorry - CPAC is in the Executive branch?

151 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:22:53pm

re: #143 brookly red

O has already approved the funding so you tell me?

No, Obama cut (if memory serves eliminated) the funding for F-22 production and I cheer him on for that, what did I say that made you think he approved funding for them?

152 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:23:35pm

re: #144 Walter L. Newton

And that never happened, the Birchers have been hanging around the edges of the GOP almost since their inception.

I’m curious to know how much influence that they have had on the GOP since 1958.

How much of the GOP’s agenda has been shaped by the Birchers, in the past and currently? How many conservatives are actually members of the John Birch Society and what effect will they have on the future of the GOP based on their past influence?

According to the Chief, quite a bit here lately.

Booga! Booga!

153 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:23:39pm

re: #144 Walter L. Newton

And that never happened, the Birchers have been hanging around the edges of the GOP almost since their inception.

I’m curious to know how much influence that they have had on the GOP since 1958.

How much of the GOP’s agenda has been shaped by the Birchers, in the past and currently? How many conservatives are actually members of the John Birch Society and what effect will they have on the future of the GOP based on their past influence?

Sure, first you want data, then you’ll want analysis, then you’ll want to test hypotheses—it’s the road to hell, I tell ya.

154 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:24:16pm

re: #153 Decatur Deb

He’s just raising legitimate questions!

155 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:24:24pm

re: #149 WindUpBird

So if your organization hates many things, you’re not a hate group? They are racists, anti-Jew, and they hate gays.

Hate group!

Don’t think they’re actively anti-black - they’re thick as thieves with some pretty whacky hebrews, and the gays thing I don’t know about.

156 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:24:34pm

re: #141 Guanxi88

Now wait just one damned minute.

BHO has call banks in Gaza supporting his campaign - it’s a nontroversy

He’s got appointees and advisors and friends and such who shoot their mouths off all over the place with a bunch of dangerous, deluded and nonsensical noise - and it’s a nontroversy.

We’ve got a president surrounded by folk who are radicals (and who revel in it, until called on it) and yet, no cause for concern.

But the JBS at the CPAC? Well, that’s the end of the world, ain’t it?

Here we go again with the false equivalency. always always always always always with the false equivalency. The desaparte mantra of tribalists who can’t just admit that they need to repurge the same scumbags that were purged decades ago.

157 brookly red  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:24:40pm

re: #151 jamesfirecat

No, Obama cut (if memory serves eliminated) the funding for F-22 production and I cheer him on for that, what did I say that made you think he approved funding for them?

no nukes… he approved newer & better nukes… Google it my friend, O is going with nukes.

158 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:24:42pm

re: #146 Guanxi88

No, you willfully misquote. Your assertion that I don’t agree with the sainted Buckley.

The only way to control these jackasses now is to co-opt them, as they are the natural response to the party’s failures and half-assed work to date.

I don’t agree. I think they should be ignored. I don’t think they have had much influence in the GOP in the past and I don’t think they will shape much agenda in the future.

These idiots have been around 50 years, it’s not some new phenomena, you have been able to find Bircher’s at almost every large GOP function, and they haven’t managed to derail the party yet.

159 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:24:48pm

re: #148 The Shadow Do

Real bad analogy. We do not need to build weapons out of desperation. You seem to argue we should accept a so so military. Should be good enough for now, no?

I’m saying that regardless of how much we spend, we should spend it on areas where “our dollars go further” what makes you think we need more F-22s at the moment when we already have about twice as many of them as the Russian version which is not as good?

To show the world how big America’s c**k is?

160 Gus  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:25:04pm

re: #145 jamesfirecat

Ah the A-1- Warthog, it’s not going to do some fancy loop de loop to try and show you how big its pilots dick is, it’ll just f*** up your shit and go home!

[Link: www.badassoftheweek.com…]

12 million dollars a piece!

The future is in UAVs.

161 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:25:30pm

re: #155 Guanxi88

Don’t think they’re actively anti-black - they’re thick as thieves with some pretty whacky hebrews, and the gays thing I don’t know about.

You don’t think the JBS are antisemitic?

162 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:25:35pm

re: #141 Guanxi88


Now wait just one damned minute.

BHO has call banks in Gaza supporting his campaign - it’s a nontroversy

Wait, what?

163 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:25:39pm

re: #156 WindUpBird

Here we go again with the false equivalency. always always always always always with the false equivalency. The desaparte mantra of tribalists who can’t just admit that they need to repurge the same scumbags that were purged decades ago.

It’s not equivalency at all. One’s a group of whacko’s - the other’s POTUS.

164 Racer X  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:25:48pm

Speaking of spending yourself into oblivion - I’m more concerned about our budget deficit and our national debt. It was bad already over the past few years, but the current administration is doubling down. Yet hardly anyone is complaining.

165 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:25:49pm

re: #157 brookly red

no nukes… he approved newer & better nukes… Google it my friend, O is going with nukes.

Just for reference what makes them “better” nukes?

166 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:26:09pm

re: #152 Guanxi88

According to the Chief, quite a bit here lately.

Booga! Booga!

Hey, everybody! Pay no attention to those John Birchers at the tea parties, on Glenn Beck’s show, at CPAC, on Sarah Palin’s desk…

It’s just somebody trying to scare you!

167 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:26:27pm

re: #161 WindUpBird

I dunno man, I wanna hear about the ‘whacky hebrews’

168 brookly red  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:26:33pm

re: #165 jamesfirecat

Just for reference what makes them “better” nukes?

they kill more people…

169 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:26:55pm

re: #160 Gus 802

12 million dollars a piece!

The future is in UAVs.

The future is flying unicorns—with directed energy weapons.

170 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:27:07pm

WOW!
New low in describing our elected President, from a *cough* right wing, relatively non-hate site..

“So?? Are we supposed to be surprised? And tax increases NEVER generate the money that they are supposed to so, the assumption that the deficit, even as a % of GDP, will go down at all, is a bunch of baloney - like everything else out of the Øtard’s mouth.”

171 brookly red  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:27:23pm

re: #168 brookly red

they kill more people…

deal with that.

172 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:27:29pm

re: #165 jamesfirecat

I havne’t looked it up today, didn’t he approve tactical nuke programs? Thats a whole different beast than the nukes we’re used to.

173 Gus  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:27:35pm

re: #169 Decatur Deb

The future is flying unicorns—with directed energy weapons.

We have those already. They’re the black helicopters.

/

174 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:27:38pm

re: #166 Charles

Hey, everybody! Pay no attention to those John Birchers at the tea parties, on Glenn Beck’s show, at CPAC, on Sarah Palin’s desk…

It’s just somebody trying to scare you!

They have been hanging around the edges of the GOP for 50 years. What has been the effect on the GOP?

175 albusteve  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:28:07pm

re: #154 windsagio

He’s just raising legitimate questions!

id you ever figure the limits of the Patriot system?

176 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:28:10pm

re: #166 Charles

Hey, everybody! Pay no attention to those John Birchers at the tea parties, on Glenn Beck’s show, at CPAC, on Sarah Palin’s desk…

It’s just somebody trying to scare you!

hey, everybody!

Don’t notice that the Birchers haven’t fielded a successful candidate ever, are but one of many groups sponsoring CPAC, or that CPAC DOESN’T name candidates!

It’s just somebody trying to give you a bit of perspective.

177 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:28:14pm

re: #174 Walter L. Newton

They have been hanging around the edges of the GOP for 50 years. What has been the effect on the GOP?

You’re seeing it right now.

178 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:28:15pm

re: #160 Gus 802

12 million dollars a piece!

The future is in UAVs.

Wouldn’t be surprised UAV’s cut down on American casualties and I hope that’s a concept we all can get behind.

Still 12 Million dollars a piece only sounds like a lot till you compare it to the 120 Million dollar F-22….

179 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:28:22pm

re: #174 Walter L. Newton

the situation hasn’t changed in the last year? I swear its like they were waiting for Buckley to die.

180 BunnyThief  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:28:28pm

There’s also a group of gay Republicans at CPAC… does that mean the GOP is now endorsing the gay agenda?

181 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:28:37pm

re: #167 windsagio

I dunno man, I wanna hear about the ‘whacky hebrews’

JTFO and the JPFO

Google ‘em. Their links wouldn’t be welcomed here.

182 Racer X  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:28:57pm

re: #158 Walter L. Newton

I don’t agree. I think they should be ignored. I don’t think they have had much influence in the GOP in the past and I don’t think they will shape much agenda in the future.

These idiots have been around 50 years, it’s not some new phenomena, you have been able to find Bircher’s at almost every large GOP function, and they haven’t managed to derail the party yet.

I disagree my friend. I know a few people who just in the past 2 years got sucked into the JBS. Really wacky shit going on there. Rabid anti-Obama; rabid anti-immigration. I want no part of them.

183 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:29:01pm

re: #163 Guanxi88

It’s not equivalency at all. One’s a group of whacko’s - the other’s POTUS.

If you want to truck with the Pam Geller crowd, I can’t stop you. But I’m not going to go back and forth on the OMG BILL AYERS thing, which keeps coming up as an eternal storm, like the red spot on Jupiter, even though it’s completely irrelevant and a red herring. The 2008 campaign has been over for a long time now.

184 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:29:09pm

re: #177 Charles

You’re seeing it right now.

Yep, riding rough-shod over the polity, wreaking havoc on the national scale.

185 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:29:19pm

Don’t troll steve, its rude :p

186 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:29:22pm

re: #174 Walter L. Newton

They have been hanging around the edges of the GOP for 50 years. What has been the effect on the GOP?

They finally got an invitation to dinner.

187 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:29:38pm

re: #172 windsagio

I havne’t looked it up today, didn’t he approve tactical nuke programs? Thats a whole different beast than the nukes we’re used to.

Yeah, aren’t tact nukes suppose to (this is based entirely off of my knowledge of sci fi) be the ones you can use in combat without leaving fallout all over the place?

188 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:29:44pm

re: #167 windsagio

I dunno man, I wanna hear about the ‘whacky hebrews’

So if they’re whacky, does that mean they just run around beating people with yardsticks? Wacky versus whacky :D

189 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:29:53pm

re: #180 BunnyThief

There’s also a group of gay Republicans at CPAC… does that mean the GOP is now endorsing the gay agenda?

The Gay Agenda.

190 albusteve  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:30:00pm

re: #185 windsagio

Don’t troll steve, its rude :p

fuck you….answer the question, moby

191 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:30:01pm

re: #183 WindUpBird

If you want to truck with the Pam Geller crowd, I can’t stop you. But I’m not going to go back and forth on the OMG BILL AYERS thing, which keeps coming up as an eternal storm, like the red spot on Jupiter, even though it’s completely irrelevant and a red herring. The 2008 campaign has been over for a long time now.

Fine - Ayers was a weatherman, but it’s irrelevant.

Got it.

The 2008 campaign is still going on, or haven’t you heard? OBAMA’s still running against him

192 darthstar  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:30:03pm

It’s almost enough to make one want to start a blog, keep it nutty enough to get accepted, and then have fun mocking the fuck out of these guys.

193 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:30:33pm

re: #187 jamesfirecat

they’re way smaller, also. Kiloton range (maybe less). They’d have to be relatively clean to be useful tho’.

I think we’ve come a long ways with clean nukes, however.

194 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:30:34pm

re: #141 Guanxi88

Fuck the JBS and anyone who breaks bread with them.

195 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:31:19pm

re: #193 windsagio

they’re way smaller, also. Kiloton range (maybe less). They’d have to be relatively clean to be useful tho’.

I think we’ve come a long ways with clean nukes, however.

Yeah like I said I’m basing this only on Sci Fi but to my mind tactical nukes are the ones you fit in rocket launchers rather than ICBMs.

196 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:31:31pm

re: #194 Spare O’Lake

Fuck the JBS and anyone who breaks bread with them.

Fair enough, but don’t be surprised if their membership don’t support you.

197 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:31:50pm

re: #180 BunnyThief

There’s also a group of gay Republicans at CPAC… does that mean the GOP is now endorsing the gay agenda?

What exactly is “the gay agenda?”

198 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:32:00pm

re: #179 windsagio

the situation hasn’t changed in the last year? I swear its like they were waiting for Buckley to die.

I asked how it has changed? I’m not suggesting that the Birchers haven’t tried to insert themselves into GOP politics since their inception, but with little effect that I can see.re: #177 Charles

You’re seeing it right now.

Charles makes a good point that we are seeing it right now. well, we are seeing something, but how much will it effect the actual coming elections, how much will it effect races, agenda, platforms.

If may, it’s possible… my prediction, the Birchers will have no more, or not much more effect than they have in the last 50 years.

My opinion, we’ll see, I could be wrong.

199 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:32:03pm

re: #178 jamesfirecat

Wouldn’t be surprised UAV’s cut down on American casualties and I hope that’s a concept we all can get behind.

Still 12 Million dollars a piece only sounds like a lot till you compare it to the 120 Million dollar F-22…

Dude I worked for the DOD for 20 years…We spent 1 Billion dollars to make the SSN683 the most deadliest Sub in modern History.. Then we Decom’d her during the Clinton Administration…

200 Racer X  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:32:06pm

re: #183 WindUpBird

If you want to truck with the Pam Geller crowd, I can’t stop you. But I’m not going to go back and forth on the OMG BILL AYERS thing, which keeps coming up as an eternal storm, like the red spot on Jupiter, even though it’s completely irrelevant and a red herring. The 2008 campaign has been over for a long time now.

Hanging
Chads

201 brookly red  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:32:27pm

re: #187 jamesfirecat

Yeah, aren’t tact nukes suppose to (this is based entirely off of my knowledge of sci fi) be the ones you can use in combat without leaving fallout all over the place?

no, nukes are nukes… big bang, lotsa dead… have a nice day.

news.yahoo.com

202 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:32:35pm

re: #184 Guanxi88

Yep, riding rough-shod over the polity, wreaking havoc on the national scale.

I’ve already made long posts about the difference between the motivated activist base and the average voter in a party. The Birchers are becoming the motivated activist base of the GOP. This is a Very. Bad. Thing.

Out of everyone who votes, how many people phone bank? Doorknock? organize fundraisers? Sell merch?

Do you not agree that those people who donate and volunteer for a campaign and fuel it with manpower, money, and motivation will have outsize influence ever the party?

Enter the Bircher.

203 BunnyThief  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:32:38pm

re: #194 Spare O’Lake

Fuck the JBS and anyone who breaks bread with them.

So, where does the chain end? The JBS and anyone who breaks bread with them, and anyone who breaks bread with them, and anyone who breaks bread with THEM…

Sooner or later, we’re gonna all have to agree to shun Kevin Bacon.

204 Linden Arden  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:33:12pm

For a “socialist” (laughing) Obama sure has the support of our top capitalists….

Buffett
Gates
Brin
Jobs
Page
Soros
Allen
Ellison

That is about $200 billion alone.

205 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:33:14pm

re: #190 albusteve

fuck you…answer the question, moby

WE ARE ALL MADE OF STARS

206 darthstar  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:33:20pm

re: #197 Charles

What exactly is “the gay agenda?”

It’s like a happy calendar, only different.

207 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:33:21pm

re: #198 Walter L. Newton

We don’t know the effect yet, but its better to do something about it now rather than ‘wait and hope for the best’.

208 BunnyThief  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:33:44pm

re: #197 Charles

What exactly is “the gay agenda?”

I’m not sure, but I’m fairly certain that it’ll be exceptionally tastefully decorated…

209 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:33:50pm

re: #205 WindUpBird

WE ARE ALL MADE OF STARS

Hippy. (Or astrophysicist. Or both)

210 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:33:59pm

re: #195 jamesfirecat

Yeah like I said I’m basing this only on Sci Fi but to my mind tactical nukes are the ones you fit in rocket launchers rather than ICBMs.

They’re ones used against enemy military assets, rather than cities and production/logistic centers.

211 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:34:03pm

re: #182 Racer X

I disagree my friend. I know a few people who just in the past 2 years got sucked into the JBS. Really wacky shit going on there. Rabid anti-Obama; rabid anti-immigration. I want no part of them.

Things may be changing, and then, maybe not. I’ve know many people who joined the Birchers, in the past, hasn’t really effected anything up to now.

Of course it could in the future, I don’t think it will.

212 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:34:16pm

re: #203 BunnyThief

So, where does the chain end? The JBS and anyone who breaks bread with them, and anyone who breaks bread with them, and anyone who breaks bread with THEM…

Sooner or later, we’re gonna all have to agree to shun Kevin Bacon.

Yeah, come on! What’s so wrong about the John Birch Society? Just try it once. What could be the harm?

213 Racer X  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:34:45pm

re: #204 Linden Arden

For a “socialist” (laughing) Obama sure has the support of our top capitalists…

Buffett
Gates
Brin
Jobs
Page
Soros
Allen
Ellison

That is about $200 billion alone.

“Some are more equal than others”

214 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:34:51pm

re: #207 windsagio

We don’t know the effect yet, but its better to do something about it now rather than ‘wait and hope for the best’.

I suggest a purge. :)

215 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:35:29pm

re: #212 Charles

Yeah, come on! What’s so wrong about the John Birch Society? Just try it once. What could be the harm?

Hey, the SDS are respectable now. It could happen to JBS, too. There’s a long history of fringers getting tamed and co-opted.

216 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:35:37pm

re: #203 BunnyThief

So, where does the chain end? The JBS and anyone who breaks bread with them, and anyone who breaks bread with them, and anyone who breaks bread with THEM…

Sooner or later, we’re gonna all have to agree to shun Kevin Bacon.

When the GOP explicitly denounces Birchers and doesn’t use them to fundraise, (see Scott Brown, who used birchers/TPers as his activist base to fundraise), then I’m fine. :)

217 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:35:51pm

re: #214 Walter L. Newton

lol zing.

I suggest that the Republicans just make statements distancing themselves from the extremists.

I suspect they’re afraid to tho’

218 BunnyThief  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:35:57pm

re: #212 Charles

Yeah, come on! What’s so wrong about the John Birch Society? Just try it once. What could be the harm?

Well, I know they’ve SAID a lot of crazy things, but have they ever been tied to actual crimes? Or any kind of direct action?

They’ve always struck me as all hat, no cattle version of nutjobs…

219 albusteve  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:36:26pm

nobody knows the effect the Birchers will have on the GOP, neither their strength to get people elected or the influence the JBS will have on policy….it’s all speculation at this point and to claim to know is only bluster…that’s just what makes the next round of elections so interesting…and once again Republicans will have choices to make…we’ll see then and not before

220 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:36:31pm

re: #216 WindUpBird

When the GOP explicitly denounces Birchers and doesn’t use them to fundraise, (see Scott Brown, who used birchers/TPers as his activist base to fundraise), then I’m fine. :)

Fine. Do I get to pick the Dem’s fundraisers and such, too?

221 reine.de.tout  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:37:00pm

re: #170 Floral Giraffe

Flo -you were quoting that bit, weren’t you?
That wasn’t you saying that, right?

222 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:37:16pm

re: #201 brookly red

no, nukes are nukes… big bang, lotsa dead… have a nice day.

[Link: news.yahoo.com…]

While the idea of fewer REALLY BIG nukes can get us by than a several more not as large nukes makes sense on paper, I’m going to chalk this up as one more thing I’m disappointed in Obama for, like not prosecuting important people related to Gitmo, taking so long to close Gitmo, taking so long to repeal don’t ask don’t tell……..

223 researchok  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:37:20pm

Public Eye:

The JBS simultaneously discouraged overt displays of racism, while it promoted policies that had the effect of racist oppression by its opposition to the Civil Rights movement. The degree of political racism expressed by the JBS was not “extremist” but similar to that of many mainstream Republican and Democratic elected officials at the time. This level of mainstream racism should not be dismissed lightly, as it was often crude and sometimes violent, treating Black people in particular as second-class citizens, most of whom had limited intelligence and little ambition. In Alan Stang’s book published by the JBS, It’s Very Simple: The True Story of Civil Rights, Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr. is portrayed as an agent of a massive communist conspiracy to agitate among otherwise happy Negroes to foment revolution, or at least promote demands for more collectivist federal government intrusion.

The same is true with JBS levels of personal and political antisemitism. When crude antisemitism was detected in JBS members, their membership was revoked. The most celebrated incident involved Birch leader Revilo P. Oliver who moved over to work with Willis Carto and the Liberty Lobby after being forced to resign from the Birch Society for making antisemitic and White supremacist comments at a 1966 Birch rally.

224 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:37:27pm

re: #180 BunnyThief

There’s also a group of gay Republicans at CPAC… does that mean the GOP is now endorsing the gay agenda?

Question; Do you believe GOProud are the activist base of the Republican party?

because I believe the Birchers are becoming the activist base of the Republican party.

If you don’t understand the distinction, let me know, and I’ll explain further. Though I have a feeling you’re just playing dumb here.

225 albusteve  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:37:42pm

re: #207 windsagio

We don’t know the effect yet, but its better to do something about it now rather than ‘wait and hope for the best’.

so what are you doing to rid the GOP of the Birchers?…any hints for the Republicans here? that is aside from endlessly trashing them from post to post?

226 The Shadow Do  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:37:49pm

re: #216 WindUpBird

When the GOP explicitly denounces Birchers and doesn’t use them to fundraise, (see Scott Brown, who used birchers/TPers as his activist base to fundraise), then I’m fine. :)

Link?

227 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:37:54pm

re: #217 windsagio

lol zing.

I suggest that the Republicans just make statements distancing themselves from the extremists.

I suspect they’re afraid to tho’

Or they may just basically ignore them hoping they will just go away, or stay on the fringe, that’s really how they have been handled in the past, it was like shooing flies… annoying but…

I would certainly like to hear statements from the GOP, certainly would.

228 BunnyThief  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:38:00pm

re: #220 Guanxi88

Fine. Do I get to pick the Dem’s fundraisers and such, too?

If you do, I’d suggest you start with Hsu the wanted felon and Hillary fundraiser, or the Hamas supporters who worked for Obama’s election from Gaza…

229 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:38:38pm

re: #220 Guanxi88

Fine. Do I get to pick the Dem’s fundraisers and such, too?

If you can find an organized group that Democrats employ as their base for fundraising purposes that are as loathsome as Birchers, please tell me who they are!

230 reine.de.tout  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:38:42pm

re: #197 Charles

What exactly is “the gay agenda?”

I dunno -
my gay brother e-mailed it to me once, but I lost it .

231 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:39:02pm

re: #225 albusteve

so what are you doing to rid the GOP of the Birchers?…any hints for the Republicans here? that is aside from endlessly trashing them from post to post?

No, I think that’s rather the point of this exercise.

I mean, it’s fine, and can be a lot of fun, but let’s not pretend it’s anything other than what it is.

232 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:39:06pm
233 albusteve  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:39:17pm

re: #227 Walter L. Newton

Or they may just basically ignore them hoping they will just go away, or stay on the fringe, that’s really how they have been handled in the past, it was like shooing flies… annoying but…

I would certainly like to hear statements from the GOP, certainly would.

Steele had his chances months ago…just before I said he should be fired

234 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:39:51pm

re: #196 Guanxi88

Fair enough, but don’t be surprised if their membership don’t support you.

Even if we ignore the line in the sand represented by their bigotry and focus strictly on bloodless political calculation, allowing the JBS under the GOP tent will cost the GOP far more support than they will retain by keeping them out, IMO.

235 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:39:52pm

re: #229 WindUpBird

If you can find an organized group that Democrats employ as their base for fundraising purposes that are as loathsome as Birchers, please tell me who they are!

Well, there wouldn’t be, to your perspective, anyone on the left as despicable as the JBS’ers.

236 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:39:58pm
237 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:39:58pm

re: #226 The Shadow Do

Link?

If you don’t actually READ LGF, if you just hang around in the comments and ignore the posts, then I’m not really inclined to do your work for you.

A hint: Go to tag storm, click on anything related to the Mass. election. Shouldn’t be hard if you honestly wish to learn.

238 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:40:05pm

re: #216 WindUpBird

When the GOP explicitly denounces Birchers and doesn’t use them to fundraise, (see Scott Brown, who used birchers/TPers as his activist base to fundraise), then I’m fine. :)

Did Scott Brown “use” the Birchers, or did the Birchers fund raise the same way they have been fund raising for almost 50 years.

239 Gus  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:40:06pm

re: #178 jamesfirecat

Wouldn’t be surprised UAV’s cut down on American casualties and I hope that’s a concept we all can get behind.

Still 12 Million dollars a piece only sounds like a lot till you compare it to the 120 Million dollar F-22…

Yeah, that’s what I meant by pointing out the price. It’s 1/10th the price. The reality is that the DoD has to focus and fund for the current military task which we have undertaken which is the war on terror. That means all unneeded projects will either be canceled or sidelined.

The F-22 will be operational for a long time anyway. In the future the F-35 will come on line and then after a period they will all be replaced by UAVs. They don’t need 70,000 lbs. of thrust to deliver lower yield ordinance on a small group of Taliban. Ground forces also prefer something around with a much longer loiter time.

Strategically we’re fine with our current line-up of F-15s, 16s, 18s, and 22s. Then we have the B-1, B-2 and the reliable old B-52.

240 Mich-again  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:40:08pm

re: #174 Walter L. Newton

They have been hanging around the edges of the GOP for 50 years. What has been the effect on the GOP?

Well, for one, they were full force behind Ross Perot who split the conservative vote which helped elect Bill Clinton. And they were full force behind Ron Paul and hated McCain as a candidate and I’m sure at least some of them refused to vote for him.

241 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:40:15pm

re: #223 researchok

Public Eye:

That’s right — the JBS’s credentials as a hate group are long established.

But tonight we actually have people at LGF telling us we shouldn’t be concerned, they’re not so bad, let them in just this once.

Sad.

242 cronus  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:40:20pm

re: #198 Walter L. Newton

Charles makes a good point that we are seeing it right now. well, we are seeing something, but how much will it effect the actual coming elections, how much will it effect races, agenda, platforms.

If may, it’s possible… my prediction, the Birchers will have no more, or not much more effect than they have in the last 50 years.

My opinion, we’ll see, I could be wrong.

You are right - they are a non-factor. I have been an active Republican in a very red state for almost 20 years and have never heard JBS mentioned in the state. I have however heard their name when talking with the professional activists types who attend CPAC-like events.

243 Linden Arden  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:40:44pm

re: #212 Charles

Yeah, come on! What’s so wrong about the John Birch Society? Just try it once. What could be the harm?

I know you know this - but Birchers think the Federal Reserve is a “conspiracy New World order” to deprive Americans of their gold and autonomy.

244 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:40:51pm

re: #232 MandyManners

You know I respect the snot out of you but, the JBS is despicable. They don’t need to be co-opted. They need to be chased the hell out.

re: #234 Spare O’Lake

Even if we ignore the line in the sand represented by their bigotry and focus strictly on bloodless political calculation, allowing the JBS under the GOP tent will cost the GOP far more support than they will retain by keeping them out, IMO.

JBS is not a large group. I mean, you understand that, right?

245 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:41:12pm
246 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:41:13pm

re: #225 albusteve

so what are you doing to rid the GOP of the Birchers?…any hints for the Republicans here? that is aside from endlessly trashing them from post to post?

Note we’re not Republicans. Not much we can do, because it’s not our party.

It is up to republicans to cleanse their party. it is up to Democrats to beat republicans.

247 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:41:14pm

re: #231 Guanxi88

In fairness I’ve said what *I* think about it (not that it matters much, not being a party member, let alone a leader) a number of times.

I think the Republican party would be well served, certainly in the long run, by loudly disavowing things like the JBS and the Tea Party movement.

248 prairiefire  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:41:21pm

re: #196 Guanxi88

Oh, I know they wouldn’t support me. They would probably rather see me and my half breed children hung. Go ahead and make your bed.

249 teleskiguy  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:41:24pm

Better not have Charles at the convention, he might actually try to find a way to sap and impurify all of CPAC’s precious bodily fluids! Hotcha!

250 albusteve  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:41:25pm

re: #229 WindUpBird

If you can find an organized group that Democrats employ as their base for fundraising purposes that are as loathsome as Birchers, please tell me who they are!

that’s neither here nor there at this point…we are stuck with this nutter BO and his tax cheatin admin for the duration….he has plenty of loathsome people around him imo

251 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:41:42pm

re: #241 Charles

That’s right — the JBS’s credentials as a hate group are long established.

But tonight we actually have people at LGF telling us we shouldn’t be concerned, they’re not so bad, let them in just this once.

Sad.

It is sad. Why don’t people listen to you?

252 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:41:49pm

re: #238 Walter L. Newton

Did Scott Brown “use” the Birchers, or did the Birchers fund raise the same way they have been fund raising for almost 50 years.

Scott Brown won his election with help in no small part from organized birchers/TPs who were his activist base.

253 Racer X  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:41:49pm

re: #237 WindUpBird

Wait a minute. Proper web protocol is if you make an accusation back it up. Telling someone to look it up for themselves is bad form.

254 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:42:09pm

re: #239 Gus 802

Yeah, that’s what I meant by pointing out the price. It’s 1/10th the price. The reality is that the DoD has to focus and fund for the current military task which we have undertaken which is the war on terror. That means all unneeded projects will either be canceled or sidelined.

The F-22 will be operational for a long time anyway. In the future the F-35 will come on line and then after a period they will all be replaced by UAVs. They don’t need 70,000 lbs. of thrust to deliver lower yield ordinance on a small group of Taliban. Ground forces also prefer something around with a much longer loiter time.

Strategically we’re fine with our current line-up of F-15s, 16s, 18s, and 22s. Then we have the B-1, B-2 and the reliable old B-52.

Yeah the take home lesson in my opinion is that we shouldn’t view the Pentagon budget as some kind of holy caff that can’t be cut.

Have you ever seen the movie the “Pentagon Wars” with Kelsey Grammer?

255 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:42:14pm
256 researchok  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:42:34pm

re: #241 Charles

That’s right — the JBS’s credentials as a hate group are long established.

But tonight we actually have people at LGF telling us we shouldn’t be concerned, they’re not so bad, let them in just this once.

Sad.

And Joseph Goebbels loved kittens. I guess he was an OK guy.

257 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:42:45pm

re: #255 MandyManners

It doesn’t matter how large they are! They’re just awful anti-Semities.

And I’m a Hebe; I fear them less than I do Samantha Power.

258 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:42:45pm

re: #251 Guanxi88

It is sad. Why don’t people listen to you?

If you’re getting tired of having an LGF account, just let me know.

259 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:42:48pm

re: #240 Mich-again

Well, for one, they were full force behind Ross Perot who split the conservative vote which helped elect Bill Clinton. And they were full force behind Ron Paul and hated McCain as a candidate and I’m sure at least some of them refused to vote for him.

Full force… what do you mean by that. They were a force in the Goldwater campaign, in the sense of supporting him and fund raising for him, but they didn’t manage diddly.

“Society influence on U.S. politics hit its high point in the years around the failed 1964 presidential campaign of Republican candidate Barry Goldwater, who lost to incumbent President Lyndon B. Johnson. Welch had supported Goldwater over Richard Nixon for the Republican nomination, but the membership split, with two-thirds supporting Goldwater and one-third supporting Nixon. A number of Birch members and their allies were Goldwater supporters in 1964[20] and some were delegates at the 1964 Republican National Convention. The Goldwater campaign brought together the nucleus of what later became known as the New Right.”

en.wikipedia.org

260 BunnyThief  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:43:07pm

re: #224 WindUpBird

Question; Do you believe GOProud are the activist base of the Republican party?

because I believe the Birchers are becoming the activist base of the Republican party.

If you don’t understand the distinction, let me know, and I’ll explain further. Though I have a feeling you’re just playing dumb here.

I think both are fringe groups that want to be considered part of the base, and have bought into CPAC (literally) in hopes of getting closer.

I also think that both will have wasted their money, and won’t get any closer to having any real influence.

And especially in the case of the JBS, I’m quite happy to see them throw their money away.

The influence being ascribed to the JBS is almost a perfect mirror-image of the grand conspiracies they talk about fighting against…

261 lazardo  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:43:24pm

One great big conservative party.

262 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:43:41pm
263 albusteve  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:43:55pm

re: #246 WindUpBird

Note we’re not Republicans. Not much we can do, because it’s not our party.

It is up to republicans to cleanse their party. it is up to Democrats to beat republicans.

I was not addressing you…didn’t you notice?

264 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:44:05pm

re: #252 WindUpBird

Scott Brown won his election with help in no small part from organized birchers/TPs who were his activist base.

I recall the Tea Partiers being involved, but not the JBS.

265 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:44:07pm

re: #258 Charles

If you’re getting tired of having an LGF account, just let me know.

What? I love it here. You know that.

But honestly, what is the point of endlessly bemoaning the excesses and follies of CPAC and such?

There’s not a snowball’s chance in hell of anyone with a radical background or associations getting to national office.

266 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:44:45pm

re: #252 WindUpBird

Scott Brown won his election with help in no small part from organized birchers/TPs who were his activist base.

You didn’t answer my question. Many candidates receive donations from many sources, even questionable, that doesn’t equate to anything more than donations, not some grand conspiracy.

267 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:44:50pm
268 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:45:06pm

re: #262 MandyManners

Well, she certainly has more power but, that does not mean JBS should not be shunned.

And yet, JBS is the bogeyman.

269 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:45:09pm

re: #264 Slumbering Behemoth

They’re pretty deeply interconnected.

270 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:45:17pm

Supper… be back in a while…

271 Gus  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:45:26pm

re: #254 jamesfirecat

Yeah the take home lesson in my opinion is that we shouldn’t view the Pentagon budget as some kind of holy caff that can’t be cut.

Have you ever seen the movie the “Pentagon Wars” with Kelsey Grammer?

No, didn’t see the movie. I know that once a project gets started “the generals” find ways to keep them going. At least that’s the way it used to be. They’d find ways to justify the need for “product-x.” Sometimes people also create an emotional bond with an aircraft and find it hard to let go. That almost happened with the F-14 Tomcat which raised a lot of hackles when they announced its retirement and replacement with the F-18 Hornet. Now, no one really notices.

272 The Shadow Do  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:45:28pm

re: #237 WindUpBird

If you don’t actually READ LGF, if you just hang around in the comments and ignore the posts, then I’m not really inclined to do your work for you.

A hint: Go to tag storm, click on anything related to the Mass. election. Shouldn’t be hard if you honestly wish to learn.

Did the TP’rs back him? Yes, they did. Did his money come from there? Don’t know, that is my question. If you know then that’s ok.

273 lazardo  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:45:39pm

re: #252 WindUpBird

Scott Brown won his election with help in no small part from organized birchers/TPs who were his activist base.

I thought it was because Coakley ran an absolutely shit campaign. The way she was condescending, she acted like the seat would just be handed to her.

274 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:45:43pm

re: #266 Walter L. Newton

You didn’t answer my question. Many candidates receive donations from many sources, even questionable, that doesn’t equate to anything more than donations, not some grand conspiracy.

That rule applies to the Left only.

On the right, we’re all dirty.

275 researchok  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:45:47pm

re: #241 Charles

That’s right — the JBS’s credentials as a hate group are long established.

But tonight we actually have people at LGF telling us we shouldn’t be concerned, they’re not so bad, let them in just this once.

Sad.

The truth is, even if the JBS were no longer what it once was, they would distance themselves from their history. They would take ownership of the past, renounce it and move on.

Say what you will about Alabama’s George Wallace, that is exactly what he did and was respected for it.

276 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:45:48pm
277 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:46:09pm

re: #269 windsagio

They’re pretty deeply interconnected.

I would hesitate to make that connection, though there is certainly some overlap.

278 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:46:17pm

re: #273 lazardo

can’t it be both? ;)

279 albusteve  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:46:28pm

re: #269 windsagio

They’re pretty deeply interconnected.

what are you doing to dislodge the JBS from the GOP?

280 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:46:38pm

re: #253 Racer X

Wait a minute. Proper web protocol is if you make an accusation back it up. Telling someone to look it up for themselves is bad form.

Well, there’s two reasons I won’t provide a link:

1) It’s Charles blog, and anyone who is so willfully ignorant as to not even know about TPer/Second American Revolution crazy involvement in that election has not been reading the blog. Many many posts on that topic. Lots of coverage. We’ve been over this argument so many times, i feel like I could repeat myself for the next thousand years and it won’t help. If Charles’ OWN posts are being completely ignored by commeters, and it’s his blog, what good am I as some scheming evil hippie in the comments? I’m certainly not going to be listened to.

2) I’m on a very old computer and it’s a laggy nightmare for me to leave a thread and open other windows unting for links on LGF. One I’m in a thread, I’m staying, because it makes my Tablet PC go frowny.

281 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:46:49pm

re: #276 MandyManners

Well, YES IT IS!

I’m a die-hard Republican. I don’t want their fucking filth in my party.

And the great thing is, they’re not in charge. They’re one of many co-sponsors at a CPAC event.

282 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:47:08pm
283 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:47:29pm

re: #203 BunnyThief

So, where does the chain end? The JBS and anyone who breaks bread with them, and anyone who breaks bread with them, and anyone who breaks bread with THEM…

Sooner or later, we’re gonna all have to agree to shun Kevin Bacon.

I would call that a chain of straw.

284 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:47:31pm

re: #279 albusteve

Steve, I’ve answered that question (as far as I am able, not being a member of the party) a number of times in this thread.

285 Racer X  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:47:33pm

re: #265 Guanxi88

There’s not a snowball’s chance in hell of anyone with a radical background or associations getting to national office.

Again.

/

?

286 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:47:36pm

re: #263 albusteve

I was not addressing you…didn’t you notice?

Public thread, you don’t get to choose who talks to you.

287 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:47:46pm

re: #271 Gus 802

No, didn’t see the movie. I know that once a project gets started “the generals” find ways to keep them going. At least that’s the way it used to be. They’d find ways to justify the need for “product-x.” Sometimes people also create an emotional bond with an aircraft and find it hard to let go. That almost happened with the F-14 Tomcat which raised a lot of hackles when they announced its retirement and replacement with the F-18 Hornet. Now, no one really notices.

The Pentagon Wars is the story of the Bradley Fighting Vehicle and how we spent over 14 billion dollars on something that started out as a smart idea and then became an utterly stupid idea

(So we’ve got a troop transport that doesn’t have enough room to carry troops because of all the ammo its carrying, because its got only marginally less firepower than your average tank, but piss poor armor, now way that can’t turn out well!)

288 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:48:05pm

re: #285 Racer X

Again.

/

?

Someone’s paying attention.

289 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:48:09pm

re: #276 MandyManners

Well, YES IT IS!

I’m a die-hard Republican. I don’t want their fucking filth in my party.

I’m a die-hard Dem, and I wouldn’t wish them on you.

290 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:48:20pm
291 albusteve  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:48:34pm

re: #282 MandyManners

ROFLMAO! Windsagio would not lift a damn digit.

We don’t know the effect yet, but its better to do something about it now rather than ‘wait and hope for the best’.

just a question in reply

292 keloyd  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:48:35pm

That “wacky Hebrews” in the JBS comment got me curious. I’ve been poking around their website for the 20 minutes. Though this be madness, yet there be method in it. Sure enough, there are a few Jewish members writing about how tolerant they are and how all the antisemitic allegations against current leadership are misunderstandings, quotes out of context, etc. The website is peppered with those sort of corporate stock photos of happy multiethnic children acting like they love family values soooo much.

The conspiracy talk exceeded my wildest expectations.

The whole thing reminds me of the old phrase “lace curtains Klan”.

Methinks they doth protest too much.

293 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:48:53pm
294 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:49:03pm

re: #290 MandyManners

So? They’re scum. They’re the scum that scum calls scum. In my mind, they’re one notch cleaner than the KKK.

Eh, you’re getting worked up over a buncha whackos who had some money to spend. They’re no more in my party than I am in theirs.

295 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:49:10pm

Camel’s nose under the tent. If we (republicans) do not openly object to the JBS coming in, who or what is next?

296 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:49:27pm
297 albusteve  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:49:33pm

re: #286 WindUpBird

Public thread, you don’t get to choose who talks to you.

not the case…I was asking a specific poster for a reply….but otherwise, you can talk to me all you want

298 Racer X  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:49:34pm

re: #280 WindUpBird

Bad form!

No cookie for you!

299 lazardo  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:49:40pm

re: #276 MandyManners

Well, YES IT IS!

I’m a die-hard Republican. I don’t want their fucking filth in my party.

Huh, I just remembered I forgot to change my voter’s registration. I’m still currently registered Republican, and I don’t want their fucking filth in my mailbox.

/if I get absentee material all the way out here, anyway.

300 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:49:42pm

re: #286 WindUpBird

you know, I had a thought about this, after the freakout last night.

A certain group on here have an abusive relationship with LGF.

If people disagree with them, or things don’t go their way, they turn up the browbeating and yelling until people either leave the thread disgusted by the bickering, or (hopefully) acquiesce for a b it of peace and quiet.

Its kinda brutal, when you think about it.

301 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:49:53pm

re: #292 keloyd

And that’s why there’s an LGF.

302 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:50:07pm
303 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:50:19pm

re: #292 keloyd

That “wacky Hebrews” in the JBS comment got me curious. I’ve been poking around their website for the 20 minutes. Though this be madness, yet there be method in it. Sure enough, there are a few Jewish members writing about how tolerant they are and how all the antisemitic allegations against current leadership are misunderstandings, quotes out of context, etc. The website is peppered with those sort of corporate stock photos of happy multiethnic children acting like they love family values sooo much.

The conspiracy talk exceeded my wildest expectations.

The whole thing reminds me of the old phrase “lace curtains Klan”.

Methinks they doth protest too much.

Yep, that’s about what you’d see. Some of my whackier tribesmen.

The Jewish Taskforce, however, are real nut-jobs. Vicious bigots, the lot of ‘em.

304 keloyd  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:50:20pm

re: #257 Guanxi88

And I’m a Hebe; I fear them less than I do Samantha Power.

Serious question - did the Jewish Diaspora get to China?

305 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:50:27pm

re: #268 Guanxi88

And yet, JBS is the bogeyman.

I’ll try one more time before giving up.

The John Birch Society should not be allowed into GOP-related events. Not only is this incredibly stupid from a political standpoint, it’s just plain WRONG from a moral standpoint to associate with hate groups like this.

The JBS should have been turned down when they applied to be a cosponsor of CPAC.

They’re not a “bogeyman,” they’re a hate group, and there are good reasons why they have been marginalized and pushed out to the fringes by William F. Buckley and other sane conservatives.

And there are very bad reasons why they’re coming back into the mainstream in a big way.

I don’t really care if anyone in the GOP listens to my opinion on this. I’ve already given up on them. And the John Birch Society is both a symbolic and a literal reason why.

306 albusteve  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:50:39pm

re: #284 windsagio

Steve, I’ve answered that question (as far as I am able, not being a member of the party) a number of times in this thread.

not since #207 you haven’t…I don’t know about the rest of the thread…just answer it again for me

307 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:50:53pm

re: #304 keloyd

Serious question - did the Jewish Diaspora get to China?

Hell yeah! Big Community at Shanghai, for one.

308 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:51:04pm

re: #268 Guanxi88

And yet, JBS is the bogeyman.

Not bogeyman, activist infrastructure.

How hard is this to get? Extreme ultra-left anti-war types who despised Bush were part of the Dem infrastructure in 2004.

And you know who won the 2004 election. They were purged by reasonable Dems for 2006 and 2008. And Dems won. Because going all HLGHBLGHBG HATE BUSH wasn’t enough. Dems needed positivism and a real message that wasn’t just reactionary tantrum-throwing.

Now we have GOP reactionary tantrum throwing, and the very real possibility that Sarah Palin will be the nominee in 2012.

309 The Shadow Do  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:51:15pm

re: #280 WindUpBird

Thank you for the “willfully ignorant” remark. I guess I will just have to learn to live with that. I’ll just go wind up my bird now.l

310 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:51:30pm

re: #306 albusteve

I would suggest that the GOP actively and loudly distance themselves from the JBS. That would do them a great deal of good in the long run.

311 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:52:06pm

re: #295 Slumbering Behemoth

Camel’s nose under the tent. If we (republicans) do not openly object to the JBS coming in, who or what is next?

Exactly.

312 Racer X  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:52:13pm

re: #300 windsagio

Was there another freakout last night?

313 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:52:53pm

re: #309 The Shadow Do

Thank you for the “willfully ignorant” remark. I guess I will just have to learn to live with that. I’ll just go wind up my bird now.l

You can go and find the posts where Charles explicitly talks about all this.

Or not.

314 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:53:05pm

re: #312 Racer X

it was referenced earlier. We had a bit of a fight over whether the Patriot missile system could intercept ICBMS. I really don’t wanna get into it again, because people got really upset >

315 BunnyThief  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:54:07pm

re: #295 Slumbering Behemoth

Camel’s nose under the tent. If we (republicans) do not openly object to the JBS coming in, who or what is next?

And yet no one seems to want to say “boo” about Kos boasting about having “bought and paid for” the Democratic party…

316 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:54:08pm

OT: Hey, I missed that we can Ding charles again!

317 researchok  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:54:35pm

re: #303 Guanxi88

Yep, that’s about what you’d see. Some of my whackier tribesmen.

The Jewish Taskforce, however, are real nut-jobs. Vicious bigots, the lot of ‘em.

That there are Jewish and black members of the JBS is irrelevant.

In 1939 a group of Jewish war veterans wrote a letter to Hitler asking to serve the Reich.

Karl Doenitz actually had Jewish officers under his command.

Had the JBS renounced their past instead of trying of trying to whitewash it, they would have a leg to stand on. As of now, they are no better than ‘academic’ Holocaust revisionists.

318 Olsonist  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:54:36pm

re: #59 The Shadow Do

This is not being developed to fight todays war.

Exactly. They are being developed to fight yesteryear’s war.

319 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:54:45pm

re: #305 Charles

They’re not a “bogeyman,” they’re a hate group, and there are good reasons why they have been marginalized and pushed out the fringes by William F. Buckley and other sane conservatives.

And there are very bad reasons why they’re coming back into the mainstream in a big way.

What are those reasons? That’s what I’m trying to get at. I think the base is slightly radicalized, at worst; you seem to think it’s either very much radicalized, or certainly ripe for it.

I have my theories as to why this has happened, and have shared them. What are your theories?

Because if it’s inexplicable, then there’s nothing to do about it. Diagnosis precedes treatment.

320 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:54:49pm

re: #315 BunnyThief

don’t make me say the TQ word >>

Not relevant to this discussion.

321 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:54:58pm
322 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:55:03pm

re: #315 BunnyThief

And yet no one seems to want to say “boo” about Kos boasting about having “bought and paid for” the Democratic party…

Kos couldn’t begin to afford my party.

323 albusteve  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:55:07pm

re: #312 Racer X

Was there another freakout last night?

every shindig is a freakout to some people….not even a good dust up

324 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:55:38pm

re: #318 Olsonist

Exactly. They are being developed to fight yesteryear’s war.

Well said good sir!

325 prairiefire  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:55:58pm

No. No freak out last night.

326 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:56:06pm

re: #323 albusteve

every shindig is a freakout to some people…not even a good dust up

A dust-up, a bonnybrook, a throw-down - all are good and fun. Freakouts are awkward and remind me of unpleasant thanksgiving dinners with my family.

327 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:56:23pm

re: #251 Guanxi88

It is sad. Why don’t people listen to you?

Listen to me friend, please pour yourself a drink and think about what you’re saying. The JBS is poison for the GOP. Poison.

328 jaunte  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:56:54pm

re: #300 windsagio

you know, I had a thought about this, after the freakout last night.

A certain group on here have an abusive relationship with LGF.

If people disagree with them, or things don’t go their way, they turn up the browbeating and yelling until people either leave the thread disgusted by the bickering, or (hopefully) acquiesce for a b it of peace and quiet.

Its kinda brutal, when you think about it.

You’re not talking about anti-religious bigots, are you?

329 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:56:59pm

re: #315 BunnyThief

And yet no one seems to want to say “boo” about Kos boasting about having “bought and paid for” the Democratic party…

Irrelevant. I am not a democrat, nor am I fond of using the “Look, they do it to” excuse for bad behavior in my party.

And Markos can boast whatever he wants, his boasting doesn’t make it true.

330 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:57:03pm

re: #317 researchok

That there are Jewish and black members of the JBS is irrelevant.

In 1939 a group of Jewish war veterans wrote a letter to Hitler asking to serve the Reich.

Karl Doenitz actually had Jewish officers under his command.

Had the JBS renounced their past instead of trying of trying to whitewash it, they would have a leg to stand on. As of now, they are no better than ‘academic’ Holocaust revisionists.

All of which would be sound points, if I were defending JBS against charges of open and raw anti-semitism, for which members are purged and have been since the ‘60’s.

331 albusteve  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:57:05pm

re: #318 Olsonist

Exactly. They are being developed to fight yesteryear’s war.

you almost sound like you know where the next threat is coming from and what it will look like…are you really that good?

332 lazardo  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:57:14pm

I personally would suggest we just let the GOP fall off into the fringe. America needs to move toward the established center, and for that we need a new social-democratic progressive party to help do so.

As I’ve said though, the only party available for that right now has a raving nutcase as its primary candidate.

333 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:57:47pm

re: #322 Decatur Deb

Kos couldn’t begin to afford my party.

There’s a whoooole lot of liberal blogs, Kos is always the only one that comes up. is this because of the LGF rivalry?

334 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:58:00pm

re: #327 Spare O’Lake

Listen to me friend, please pour yourself a drink and think about what you’re saying. The JBS is poison for the GOP. Poison.

The only way out of a crisis is through it. If this is the way they want to go, who are we to stop them?

335 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:58:11pm

re: #328 jaunte

Only if its linked to a strong sense of entitlement and ownership >>

336 Gus  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:58:55pm

Some irony here. This is from the American Conservative Union who are the people behind CPAC:

Yet like the proverbial cloud with a silver lining, the Goldwater debacle cleared the way for the resurrection rather than the interment of the conservative movement. On November 7, 1964, just five days after the election, several of conservatism’s leading luminaries gathered to pick up the pieces and assess the movement’s future. They were determined not merely to paper over the damage, but to craft and forge a new vehicle through which the ideas and ideals articulated in the 1964 campaign could be advanced in the political arena without apology or retreat. Most thought that existing groups were limited in their appeal (such as Young Americans for Freedom) or too tarnished or discredited by controversy (such as the John Birch Society). In more immediate terms, they believed that an effective counterweight was needed to the liberal Americans for Democratic Action, which they asserted in a subsequent statement “had been decisive in establishing a climate of opinion highly favorable to liberal legislation and liberal political candidates” in 1964.

“Too tarnished or discredited by controversy — such as the John Birch Society.” This from the ACU. And today the JBS is a sponsor at CPAC.

337 jaunte  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:59:14pm

re: #335 windsagio

That may call for mind-reading.

338 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:59:16pm

re: #331 albusteve

you almost sound like you know where the next threat is coming from and what it will look like…are you really that good?

So you really think two heavily industrial nations are gonna attack each other? Because correct me if I’m wrong but have we sold any F-22’s to any other nations? And if we haven’t we get into a war with a nation that we really need them against, aren’t the odds pretty good that they’ll have nukes as well, or friends who do?

339 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:59:24pm

re: #333 WindUpBird

There’s a whooole lot of liberal blogs, Kos is always the only one that comes up. is this because of the LGF rivalry?

I wasn’t aware there was a rivalry between LGF and DKOS. I always figured they were totally OTHER.

340 prairiefire  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:59:39pm

re: #334 Guanxi88

What are your principals? I mean personally, what do you believe is good for American society?

341 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:59:44pm

re: #333 WindUpBird

There’s a whooole lot of liberal blogs, Kos is always the only one that comes up. is this because of the LGF rivalry?

I think they’re just the largest. Might be bigger than LGF, but their technology makes them almost unreadable.

342 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:59:46pm

re: #329 Slumbering Behemoth

Irrelevant. I am not a democrat, nor am I fond of using the “Look, they do it to” excuse for bad behavior in my party.

And Markos can boast whatever he wants, his boasting doesn’t make it true.

And I’d argue that Kos was at the height of his influence when the Democrats were at their least powerful in the last few years. These days, I don’t believe he pulls much weight. There’s a lot more high-powered liberal voices, for better or worse, than there used to be. An Ed Schultz or a Maddow on a cable news network would have been unheard of a few years ago.

343 McSpiff  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 6:59:53pm

re: #330 Guanxi88

All of which would be sound points, if I were defending JBS against charges of open and raw anti-semitism, for which members are purged and have been since the ‘60’s.

Just to clarify here, and sorry if I offend you Guanxi, but are you a supporter of, or the ideas espoused by the John Birch Society?

Because suggesting that all the really bad guys have been purged out sets off some alarm bells in my head.

344 Racer X  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:00:14pm

re: #332 lazardo

I personally would suggest we just let the GOP fall off into the fringe. America needs to move toward the established center, and for that we need a new social-democratic progressive party to help do so.

As I’ve said though, the only party available for that right now has a raving nutcase as its primary candidate.

Interesting.

May I ask a question?

In your opinion, how big is “Too Big” for a government?

345 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:00:44pm

re: #343 McSpiff

Just to clarify here, and sorry if I offend you Guanxi, but are you a supporter of, or the ideas espoused by the John Birch Society?

Because suggesting that all the really bad guys have been purged out sets off some alarm bells in my head.

No, they’re no one I’d be associated with. I think of them as the Republican Party’s version of the maoist international movement - a vicious political cult.

346 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:00:54pm

re: #337 jaunte

well y’know, people tend to come through pretty well, especially over a large volume of posts and months of time.

347 McSpiff  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:01:37pm

re: #345 Guanxi88

No, they’re no one I’d be associated with. I think of them as the Republican Party’s version of the maoist international movement - a vicious political cult.

Fair enough, just like to make sure I’m on the same page with people.

348 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:01:40pm

re: #339 Guanxi88

I wasn’t aware there was a rivalry between LGF and DKOS. I always figured they were totally OTHER.

I have heard much mention of a past rivalry between the two blogs because of what Moulitsas said about the contractors killed in Iraq.

I can count of many hands how much Kos comes up, nobody ever mentions any other liberal blog with a tenth as much frequency.

349 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:01:40pm

re: #335 windsagio

Only if its linked to a strong sense of entitlement and ownership >>

Forgive me if you’ve already explained and I missed it. But, what is that Fast Forward sign you put at the end of your comments for? TIA.

350 albusteve  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:01:59pm

re: #338 jamesfirecat

So you really think two heavily industrial nations are gonna attack each other? Because correct me if I’m wrong but have we sold any F-22’s to any other nations? And if we haven’t we get into a war with a nation that we really need them against, aren’t the odds pretty good that they’ll have nukes as well, or friends who do?

don’t know…I just like knowing we are beefed up with the best hardware out there…I’d like to have seen a continuation of the program up to about 300 planes, and parts of course…there are reasonable arguments against the 22, I just don’t agree with them

351 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:02:13pm

re: #340 prairiefire

What are your principals? I mean personally, what do you believe is good for American society?

best thing for america is to leave folk alone at home; slay our foreign enemies abroad. To the extent possible, make no new laws, and try to leave the place in at least as good a shape, economically, environmentally, and socially, as when your folks handed you the keys.

352 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:03:08pm

re: #336 Gus 802

Some irony here. This is from the American Conservative Union who are the people behind CPAC:

“Too tarnished or discredited by controversy — such as the John Birch Society.” This from the ACU. And today the JBS is a sponsor at CPAC.

because at the time, they didn’t need the JBS. Now they do. because now they’re becoming the base.

353 Racer X  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:03:12pm

re: #344 Racer X

In your opinion, how big is “Too Big” for a government?

I’d like to pose this to others as well. I heard this on the radio today and it really got me thinking. How big is too big?

354 researchok  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:03:13pm

re: #330 Guanxi88

All of which would be sound points, if I were defending JBS against charges of open and raw anti-semitism, for which members are purged and have been since the ‘60’s.

I have no issue with you or your position.

My issue is with the JBS. They haven’t come clean on their past. Like Charles noted, there is a reason Bill Buckley wanted no part of them.

355 The Shadow Do  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:03:32pm

re: #313 WindUpBird

You can go and find the posts where Charles explicitly talks about all this.

Or not.


Good grief, let’s cut to the chase. I read here regularly. I am well aware that Mr., now Senator, Brown had the full support of the TP crowd and by inference the Birchers too. But that is not what I was questioning.

Do you believe that the seat was bought by these folks or do you not? If you have evidnece that the Birchers own this man then I ask you to document it. Not that big a deal really.

I have zero tolerence for Birchers by the way.

356 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:03:43pm

re: #349 The Sanity Inspector

haha no problem.

Its a wierd habit, I originally got it from some of the more embarasing cutsie emoticons you can do: ><

That doesn’t work well on html blogs, so I kinda modified it. I originally used it as a kinda ‘shifty eyed’ emote, like a broken sarc tag, but now my fingers just do it habitually. I try to stop sometimes, but it doesn’t take ;)

357 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:04:05pm

re: #348 WindUpBird

I have heard much mention of a past rivalry between the two blogs because of what Moulitsas said about the contractors killed in Iraq.

I can count of many hands how much Kos comes up, nobody ever mentions any other liberal blog with a tenth as much frequency.

Well, that was a sorta-kinda early blog war. These days, the wars are more intense, because many of the combatants know each other and have history.

358 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:04:28pm

The John Birch Society falls under the category of super-patriots: people who claim to love their country, but hate 80% of the people in it.

359 keloyd  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:04:35pm

re: #307 Guanxi88

Hell yeah! Big Community at Shanghai, for one.

Cool! Have they been there forever or is it just the Europeans that showed up with the imperialism? India seems to have both, but China is really far.
I just assumed your were Chinese because people with an X in their name generally fall into 2 categories: 1. people named Xavier, 2. Chinese people.

360 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:04:36pm

re: #349 The Sanity Inspector

Forgive me if you’ve already explained and I missed it. But, what is that Fast Forward sign you put at the end of your comments for? TIA.

It’s not a ff sign, it’s like a eyes-looking to the right sign. For example, this is a smiley in the same style ^_^

361 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:04:38pm

re: #353 Racer X

Violating civil rights (altho that happens alot anyways) >>

362 lazardo  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:04:41pm

re: #344 Racer X

Interesting.

May I ask a question?

In your opinion, how big is “Too Big” for a government?

Soviet- or Nazi-Germany-domineering is that “too big”, i.e. a government that so wantonly tries to control the citizenry’s private life. Of course, in a country the size of the United States, it’ll be too inefficient to even funciton. And things like universal health-care don’t - and won’t - start a slippery slope toward that.

363 The Shadow Do  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:04:48pm

re: #318 Olsonist

Exactly. They are being developed to fight yesteryear’s war.

Just like the Russians and the Chinese I suppose?

364 BunnyThief  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:04:51pm

re: #345 Guanxi88

No, they’re no one I’d be associated with. I think of them as the Republican Party’s version of the maoist international movement - a vicious political cult.

Unfair comparison. Maoists can claim a body count in eight or nine figures.

365 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:04:54pm

re: #352 WindUpBird

because at the time, they didn’t need the JBS. Now they do. because now they’re becoming the base.

Wow, so the Right is really that far over on the Evil line?

366 jaunte  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:05:10pm

re: #338 jamesfirecat

So you really think two heavily industrial nations are gonna attack each other? Because correct me if I’m wrong but have we sold any F-22’s to any other nations? And if we haven’t we get into a war with a nation that we really need them against, aren’t the odds pretty good that they’ll have nukes as well, or friends who do?

Pardon me for breaking in, but I think the value of the F-22 is that it’s the best thing we have to break through a lot of anti-aircraft weaponry that can deny the space to anything else, including the F-35. That anti-aircraft weaponry is being sold to many nations, so if we have to, for example, defend Colombia from a Chavista invasion, it might be a good tool to have available.

367 researchok  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:05:11pm

re: #339 Guanxi88

I wasn’t aware there was a rivalry between LGF and DKOS. I always figured they were totally OTHER.

Moulitsos is a self serving opportunist.

Charles is not.

368 lazardo  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:05:24pm

re: #359 keloyd

Cool! Have they been there forever or is it just the Europeans that showed up with the imperialism? India seems to have both, but China is really far.
I just assumed your were Chinese because people with an X in their name generally fall into 2 categories: 1. people named Xavier, 2. Chinese people.

3. Civil Rights leaders, you racist.

/happy Black History Month!

369 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:05:35pm

re: #353 Racer X

I’d like to pose this to others as well. I heard this on the radio today and it really got me thinking. How big is too big?

When it spends one more dollar or hires one more worker than the people want.

370 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:05:35pm

re: #359 keloyd

Cool! Have they been there forever or is it just the Europeans that showed up with the imperialism? India seems to have both, but China is really far.
I just assumed your were Chinese because people with an X in their name generally fall into 2 categories: 1. people named Xavier, 2. Chinese people.

Actually, neither. Guanxi - “connection” - I work for and with Chinese here in Texas. It kinda rubs off on you.

371 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:06:39pm

re: #369 Decatur Deb

When it spends one more dollar or hires one more worker than the people want.

Errr, that’s incredibly vague…

372 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:06:50pm

re: #352 WindUpBird

because at the time, they didn’t need the JBS. Now they do. because now they’re becoming the base.

Do we have any GOP politicians in the House or Senate, or Mayor or Governors who are members of the JBS?

373 albusteve  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:07:15pm

re: #360 WindUpBird

It’s not a ff sign, it’s like a eyes-looking to the right sign. For example, this is a smiley in the same style ^_^

so much charm!…I love it!….really enhances my net experience, thanks…and PS I love it when you stick your tongue out!….KILERZ!

374 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:07:28pm

re: #372 Walter L. Newton

Do we have any GOP politicians in the House or Senate, or Mayor or Governors who are members of the JBS?

Don’t confuse the issue.

375 prairiefire  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:07:56pm

Ok, I wonder what percentage of the GOP voters have Guanxi88 attitude? It seems like an “I’ll take all comers and see how it shakes out” attitude.

376 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:08:01pm

re: #355 The Shadow Do

Good grief, let’s cut to the chase. I read here regularly. I am well aware that Mr., now Senator, Brown had the full support of the TP crowd and by inference the Birchers too. But that is not what I was questioning.

Do you believe that the seat was bought by these folks or do you not? If you have evidnece that the Birchers own this man then I ask you to document it. Not that big a deal really.

I have zero tolerence for Birchers by the way.

I don’t think the Birchers OWN him, I believe that they’re becoming an instrumental party of the GOP’s ground game. That’s what I mean by activist base. That the GOP is beginning to rely on them to win elections and can no longer “quit them”, as they say on Brokeback Mountain. My evidence is Charles’ evidence. The fundraising, and the TP/Bircher flags at the victory party.

it’s like in Bush’s two terms, an instrumental part of his ground game were social conservative protestants, megachurch attendees, that sort of crowd, and their ground game was energized by all of the anti-gay ballot initiatives, which were designed to increase turnout and keep the base strong.

377 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:08:02pm

re: #372 Walter L. Newton

because, to pander to them, you need to be a member.

Thats not quite right, I Think…

378 Racer X  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:08:10pm

re: #369 Decatur Deb

When it spends one more dollar or hires one more worker than the people want.

I agree - although I would change it to “need” rather than want.

379 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:08:41pm

re: #371 Varek Raith

Errr, that’s incredibly vague…

All you have to do is enough honest data-based scientific study of what the people want. Do it fast, because it changes every day or so.

380 Olsonist  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:08:49pm

re: #331 albusteve

you almost sound like you know where the next threat is coming from and what it will look like…are you really that good?

Actually, I’m not quite that good but I’m really really good. Basically I can tell where the next threat isn’t coming from. It isn’t going to come from Russia and it isn’t going to come from China.

381 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:08:56pm

re: #375 prairiefire

Ok, I wonder what percentage of the GOP voters have Guanxi88 attitude? It seems like an “I’ll take all comers and see how it shakes out” attitude.

Seems to me, that’s sorta kinda how these things go. You’d be a fool to toss away a vote.

382 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:09:00pm

re: #378 Racer X

That’s a hopeless definition tho’, because its impossible to show how much they need :P

383 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:09:18pm

re: #374 Guanxi88

Don’t confuse the issue.

Well I wasn’t, I was asking a question that I honestly can’t find an answer for, and Lizards tend to have answers around here.

384 lazardo  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:09:29pm

re: #376 WindUpBird

That the GOP is beginning to rely on them to win elections and can no longer “quit them”, as they say on Brokeback Mountain.

Does that mean more public restroom affairs after the mid-terms?

385 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:09:55pm

re: #378 Racer X

I agree - although I would change it to “need” rather than want.

Almost did, but I’d be accused of leftist elitism.

386 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:10:02pm

re: #383 Walter L. Newton

Well I wasn’t, I was asking a question that I honestly can’t find an answer for, and Lizards tend to have answers around here.

So far as I can tell, they have maybe a few somewhere, but I can’t find them.

387 Gus  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:10:05pm

re: #352 WindUpBird

because at the time, they didn’t need the JBS. Now they do. because now they’re becoming the base.

Yeah. Of all groups they also added the Oathkeepers to their sponsor list. Some of the agenda reads like a Ron Paul fest:

Liberty Forum
Marshall Southwest Ballroom
Sponsored by Campaign for Liberty (2 hours)
Speakers: Ron Paul and Judge Andrew Napolitano
Moderator: Thomas Woods
Open to All CPAC Attendees

Book Signing with Judge Andrew Napolitano
Exhibit Hall, Booth 300
Sponsored by Campaign for Liberty (30 minutes)
Open to All CPAC Attendees

“Freedom Watch” Live Taping
XPAC Lounge
Sponsored by Campaign for Liberty/Fox News Channel (1 hour)
Hosted by Judge Andrew Napolitano
Open to all XPAC ticket holders

It looks like CPAC has become a convergence meeting. Buzzwords like tyranny and liberty. Music by (face palm) Hi-Caliber and Young Cons. Kind of has this quasi Tea Party feel to it.

388 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:10:20pm

re: #350 albusteve

don’t know…I just like knowing we are beefed up with the best hardware out there…I’d like to have seen a continuation of the program up to about 300 planes, and parts of course…there are reasonable arguments against the 22, I just don’t agree with them

You realize that would have cost 13560 million or 13.56 Billion dollars to do, right?

Someone else can double check my math

300-187= 113

113 Planes times 120 Milllion per plane equals….

389 BunnyThief  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:10:25pm

re: #369 Decatur Deb

When it spends one more dollar or hires one more worker than the people want.

(wince) I’d rather “than is absolutely required to carry out its duties as per the Constitution and the law.”

What you said is pure democracy, which usually lasts about as long as it takes 51% of the people to realize they can screw over the other 49%.

I’m rather fond of our constitutional democratic republic, with guaranteed protections for the minority…

390 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:10:36pm

re: #377 windsagio

because, to pander to them, you need to be a member.

Thats not quite right, I Think…

Did I say that? Of course not, wasn’t even thinking that. I was asking a question that I honestly can’t find an answer for, and Lizards tend to have answers around here. Thanks for being so unhelpful.

391 McSpiff  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:10:52pm

re: #381 Guanxi88

Seems to me, that’s sorta kinda how these things go. You’d be a fool to toss away a vote.

That’s awfully close to wanting power for powers sake alone. If you need to completely change your principles for that vote, you’re probably doing it for the wrong reasons. And since the GOP so strongly rejected the JBS before, I’d say this is exactly what they’re doing, and why they shouldn’t have power.

392 Racer X  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:10:57pm

re: #382 windsagio

That’s a hopeless definition tho’, because its impossible to show how much they need :P

Perhaps. But how big is too big? I know you mentioned violating civil rights above, but is that it? Everything else is cool?

393 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:11:17pm

re: #348 WindUpBird

I have heard much mention of a past rivalry between the two blogs because of what Moulitsas said about the contractors killed in Iraq.

I can count of many hands how much Kos comes up, nobody ever mentions any other liberal blog with a tenth as much frequency.

I was here during those days, when Moulitsas made his infamous “screw them” comment. We were still jacked up with rage over 9/11 and support for the troops on the ground in the worst days of the Iraq war. Kos, no doubt motivated by the “higher patriotism” dissenters always congratulate themselves on having, sneered at the murders of American contractors in Fallujah. The dextrosphere pounced in an ecstasy of execration; he issued a surly non-apology, and we lived bitterly ever after. I still won’t go to his website on purpose.

(That tale reminds me of how much I enjoyed Lt. Neil Prakash’s milblog, Armor Geddon. He had some great tales of his Marine tankers pounding the jihadists like cheap veal during the battle of Fallujah, until OpSec made him take much of them down.

394 The Shadow Do  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:11:29pm

re: #376 WindUpBird

I don’t think the Birchers OWN him, I believe that they’re becoming an instrumental party of the GOP’s ground game. That’s what I mean by activist base. That the GOP is beginning to rely on them to win elections and can no longer “quit them”, as they say on Brokeback Mountain. My evidence is Charles’ evidence. The fundraising, and the TP/Bircher flags at the victory party.

it’s like in Bush’s two terms, an instrumental part of his ground game were social conservative protestants, megachurch attendees, that sort of crowd, and their ground game was energized by all of the anti-gay ballot initiatives, which were designed to increase turnout and keep the base strong.

Fair enough. As to the extremism you project on Brown, we shall have to wait and see I suppose.

395 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:12:05pm

re: #365 Guanxi88

Wow, so the Right is really that far over on the Evil line?

Not the Right. The small, motivate core base that volunteers and wins elections. The average voter is one thing, the problem is you need motivated True Believers at the core to win the contest. And on the GOp, the core true believers that phonebank and fundraise are becoming infected with radicalism.

I keep saying over and over again, the Right needs to get rid of these people. They’re not a large part of the party, but they’re a very dangerous small core of the party that can have a disproportionate amount of influence if they are allowed to persist. Like cancer. It doesn’t take much to kill you. it just needs to be in the right place.

I want to talk about STRATEGY. ELECTIONS. MACHINERY. INFLUENCE.

Not tribalism.

396 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:12:56pm

re: #389 BunnyThief

(wince) I’d rather “than is absolutely required to carry out its duties as per the Constitution and the law.”

What you said is pure democracy, which usually lasts about as long as it takes 51% of the people to realize they can screw over the other 49%.

I’m rather fond of our constitutional democratic republic, with guaranteed protections for the minority…

Thumbs up for protections, but I was focusing on size rather than abusiveness.

397 prairiefire  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:13:30pm

How benign is this? From Hank Paulson’s memoir regarding Russia:upi.com

398 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:13:36pm

re: #391 McSpiff

That’s awfully close to wanting power for powers sake alone. If you need to completely change your principles for that vote, you’re probably doing it for the wrong reasons. And since the GOP so strongly rejected the JBS before, I’d say this is exactly what they’re doing, and why they shouldn’t have power.

Well, I don’t want to sound like a cynic here, but isn’t that what it’s all about, at the end of the day? I mean, I don’t expect much better from my party, and the fact I;m still with them tells you what I think of the alternative.

They ran the nice soft guy McCain, everybody’s favorite moderate republican, and he lost spectacularly to a nobody from nowhere who, like Sutpen “abrupted” full-grown onto the stage.

399 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:13:38pm

re: #392 Racer X

To be honest, I’m not qualified to make that decision. I’m not sure any of us on here are.

We just don’t know enough to decide what programs are neccessary and which ones are not… And it would have to be case-by-case.

I do think it should probably have more regulatory and control influence than it does tho’. Things like banks, healthcare (I’m vocally pro-single payer, for instance), etc.

so for me its somewhere past where we are now somewhere before ‘police state’ :)

400 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:13:53pm

re: #395 WindUpBird

Not the Right. The small, motivate core base that volunteers and wins elections. The average voter is one thing, the problem is you need motivated True Believers at the core to win the contest. And on the GOp, the core true believers that phonebank and fundraise are becoming infected with radicalism.

I keep saying over and over again, the Right needs to get rid of these people. They’re not a large part of the party, but they’re a very dangerous small core of the party that can have a disproportionate amount of influence if they are allowed to persist. Like cancer. It doesn’t take much to kill you. it just needs to be in the right place.

I want to talk about STRATEGY. ELECTIONS. MACHINERY. INFLUENCE.

Not tribalism.

Your a conservative?

401 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:14:16pm
402 albusteve  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:14:20pm

re: #388 jamesfirecat

You realize that would have cost 13560 million or 13.56 Billion dollars to do, right?

Someone else can double check my math

300-187= 113

113 Planes times 120 Milllion per plane equals…

so what?…why is cost a sudden concern?….divert some of that ridiculous Stim money over to defense and no harm done…money is not an issue and you know it…it’s purely an ideological choice

403 lazardo  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:14:25pm

re: #395 WindUpBird

Not the Right. The small, motivate core base that volunteers and wins elections. The average voter is one thing, the problem is you need motivated True Believers at the core to win the contest. And on the GOp, the core true believers that phonebank and fundraise are becoming infected with radicalism.

I keep saying over and over again, the Right needs to get rid of these people. They’re not a large part of the party, but they’re a very dangerous small core of the party that can have a disproportionate amount of influence if they are allowed to persist. Like cancer. It doesn’t take much to kill you. it just needs to be in the right place.

I want to talk about STRATEGY. ELECTIONS. MACHINERY. INFLUENCE.

Not tribalism.

I disagree. I believe they are the effective base of the party now, and because we’ve gotten used to them so long (having been let in for decades) it only seems like the people emerging to their leadership only represent that vocal ‘small core.’

404 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:14:27pm

re: #372 Walter L. Newton

Do we have any GOP politicians in the House or Senate, or Mayor or Governors who are members of the JBS?

No, and we also don’t have any that are Moonies.

But the Moonies have influence over GOP members.


Please please PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE read what i actually write about why the JBS is significant in the GOP instead of asking me questions that make little sense that you already know the answer to.

405 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:14:45pm

re: #400 Walter L. Newton

Your a conservative?

?

406 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:15:15pm

re: #403 lazardo

I disagree. I believe they are the effective base of the party now, and because we’ve gotten used to them so long (having been let in for decades) it only seems like the people emerging to their leadership only represent that vocal ‘small core.’

That’s the question I asked up thread, who in the GOP leadership are JBS members?

407 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:15:16pm

re: #390 Walter L. Newton

My point was that its a deceptive question. Their influence has nothing to do with prominent politician members.

As to the answer, I think none, or at least nobody on the national level.

408 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:15:27pm

re: #403 lazardo

I disagree. I believe they are the effective base of the party now, and because we’ve gotten used to them so long (having been let in for decades) it only seems like the people emerging to their leadership only represent that vocal ‘small core.’

So you are actually more pessimistic about the JBS than I am. :D

409 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:15:31pm

re: #372 Walter L. Newton

Do we have any GOP politicians in the House or Senate, or Mayor or Governors who are members of the JBS?

For one, I don’t know if Ron Paul is a member, but he gave the keynote speech at the John Birch Society’s 50th anniversary meeting. And Ron Paul’s son just got Sarah Palin’s endorsement for the Senate.

Also, he’s not a politician, but he has a huge influence on the right wing — Glenn Beck promotes Bircher ideology regularly on his show.

I’ve been posting articles for months showing the resurgence of the John Birch Society.

410 albusteve  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:15:36pm

re: #394 The Shadow Do

Fair enough. As to the extremism you project on Brown, we shall have to wait and see I suppose.

yup, all else is pretty much just presumptive blather

411 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:15:57pm

re: #404 WindUpBird

No, and we also don’t have any that are Moonies.

But the Moonies have influence over GOP members.

Please please PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE read what i actually write about why the JBS is significant in the GOP instead of asking me questions that make little sense that you already know the answer to.

Again, JBS think the gov’t is taken over by illuminati communist witches, or some such thing. I think you’re conflating them with rightist populists, or which they are a sub-group.

412 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:16:01pm
413 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:16:01pm

re: #405 WindUpBird

?

I simply asked, are you a conservative? Sorry.

414 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:16:06pm

re: #406 Walter L. Newton

That’s the question I asked up thread, who in the GOP leadership are JBS members?

That’s not how this works, Walter.

415 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:16:20pm

re: #402 albusteve

so what?…why is cost a sudden concern?…divert some of that ridiculous Stim money over to defense and no harm done…money is not an issue and you know it…it’s purely an ideological choice

Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t the F-22 require an insane amount of maintenance per hour flown? I though I read somewhere that it spends far more time in maintenance than flying.
?

416 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:16:40pm

re: #398 Guanxi88

Well, I don’t want to sound like a cynic here, but isn’t that what it’s all about, at the end of the day? I mean, I don’t expect much better from my party, and the fact I;m still with them tells you what I think of the alternative.

They ran the nice soft guy McCain, everybody’s favorite moderate republican, and he lost spectacularly to a nobody from nowhere who, like Sutpen “abrupted” full-grown onto the stage.

How is he a moderate if he voted with George W. Bush 90% of the time?

I guess in this day and age all moderate republicans have become Democrats like Arlan Specter…

417 McSpiff  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:17:15pm

re: #398 Guanxi88

Well, I don’t want to sound like a cynic here, but isn’t that what it’s all about, at the end of the day? I mean, I don’t expect much better from my party, and the fact I;m still with them tells you what I think of the alternative.

They ran the nice soft guy McCain, everybody’s favorite moderate republican, and he lost spectacularly to a nobody from nowhere who, like Sutpen “abrupted” full-grown onto the stage.

If that is how your system works, I’d say its a failure of the two party system. If your end goal is simply to keep the Dems out of power then so be it. But if lay down with dogs don’t be surprised when you get fleas.

418 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:17:24pm

After everything I’ve posted about the JBS, it’s kind of amazing to me that we’re even having this discussion about whether they’re a bad influence.

419 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:17:39pm

re: #411 Guanxi88

Again, JBS think the gov’t is taken over by illuminati communist witches, or some such thing. I think you’re conflating them with rightist populists, or which they are a sub-group.

I think the JBS are becoming the brand name FOR rightist populist. The crosspollination is complete, they’re effectively becoming the same thing. The rightist populists ar elistening to Glenn Beck. Whose shows are filled with clasic, textbook Bircher rhetoric. Pollinated. They show up at tea-parties. Which are staffed and organized by birchers. pollinated again.

420 The Shadow Do  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:17:55pm

re: #395 WindUpBird

Not the Right. The small, motivate core base that volunteers and wins elections. The average voter is one thing, the problem is you need motivated True Believers at the core to win the contest. And on the GOp, the core true believers that phonebank and fundraise are becoming infected with radicalism.

I keep saying over and over again, the Right needs to get rid of these people. They’re not a large part of the party, but they’re a very dangerous small core of the party that can have a disproportionate amount of influence if they are allowed to persist. Like cancer. It doesn’t take much to kill you. it just needs to be in the right place.

I want to talk about STRATEGY. ELECTIONS. MACHINERY. INFLUENCE.

Not tribalism.

Disagree (surprise). The money comes from the base. Elections are won in the middle. Hence pandering in the primaries and a sudden middle of the road epiphany in the general.

Great system really. Brooks not the extremes of either side.

421 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:18:07pm

re: #416 jamesfirecat

How is he a moderate if he voted with George W. Bush 90% of the time?

I guess in this day and age all moderate republicans have become Democrats like Arlan Specter…

Don’t let’s go down that road, again.

If you think McCain was a conservative’s conservative, you’re woefully misinformed about the state of the party and his position on the Republican party.

I seem to recall that Kerry was awfully fond of McCain. Is Kerry, then, a bush supporter?

422 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:18:20pm

re: #401 MandyManners

I have a headache.

Dammit.

/ ;)

423 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:18:30pm

re: #417 McSpiff

I always liked “Lay down with whores, don’t be surprised when you get syphilis” :)

424 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:18:41pm

re: #402 albusteve

so what?…why is cost a sudden concern?…divert some of that ridiculous Stim money over to defense and no harm done…money is not an issue and you know it…it’s purely an ideological choice

With all do respect, F*** YOU! You think we should be spending money that could be helping unemployed people find work and get by in this tough economy on a bunch of shiney planes to sit in a hanger and look pretty?

You sir give the appearance of having no sense of care for your fellow man’s suffering.

425 lazardo  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:18:52pm

re: #406 Walter L. Newton

That’s the question I asked up thread, who in the GOP leadership are JBS members?

Was about to hold my nose and jump into the JBS site to dig, but then Charles answered. >_>

426 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:19:05pm

re: #409 Charles

For one, I don’t know if Ron Paul is a member, but he gave the keynote speech at the John Birch Society’s 50th anniversary meeting. And Ron Paul’s son just got Sarah Palin’s endorsement for the Senate.

Also, he’s not a politician, but he has a huge influence on the right wing — Glenn Beck promotes Bircher ideology regularly on his show.

I’ve been posting articles for months showing the resurgence of the John Birch Society.

I know you have, I simply wanted to know if anyone knows of any major GOP politicians that are actual members. I was trying to find some and I couldn’t.

For me, the jury is still out on how much influence the JBS society is going to have in the next two election cycles.

427 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:19:26pm

re: #413 Walter L. Newton

I simply asked, are you a conservative? Sorry.

The ? was why would anyone ask me that when I’m talking about the machinery of how elections are won.

428 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:19:28pm

Jeff Beck at Ronnie Scott’s on Palladia TV…The dude can almost bring tears to your eyes when he plays guitar… I wonder who that smoking hot singer is?
“I see only want I wanna see” Haunting..Ok Jeff is doing another song..Bringing down the House

429 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:19:42pm

re: #424 jamesfirecat

Errr, that’s over the top.

430 albusteve  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:19:59pm

re: #415 Varek Raith

Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t the F-22 require an insane amount of maintenance per hour flown? I though I read somewhere that it spends far more time in maintenance than flying.
?

the Osprey was a bust at first, now the Marines love the thing…it’s not about money

431 McSpiff  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:20:09pm

re: #423 windsagio

I always liked “Lay down with whores, don’t be surprised when you get syphilis” :)

Honestly I’d be more worried about my humanity or my soul if I was dealing with the JBS than my genitalia, but I suppose everything has its price.

432 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:20:20pm

re: #426 Walter L. Newton

I know you have, I simply wanted to know if anyone knows of any major GOP politicians that are actual members. I was trying to find some and I couldn’t.

For me, the jury is still out on how much influence the JBS society is going to have in the next two election cycles.

No GOP politician is going to advertise their membership in the JBS.

433 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:20:32pm

re: #427 WindUpBird

The ? was why would anyone ask me that when I’m talking about the machinery of how elections are won.

Because you used some language in your comment that I have heard some conservative talk show people use. I was just interested.

434 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:21:07pm

re: #430 albusteve

the Osprey was a bust at first, now the Marines love the thing…it’s not about money

It’s not so much the money that concerns me, it’s the reliability of the jet that I question. If it can be relied on when needed, why bother with it?

435 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:21:36pm

re: #434 Varek Raith

It’s not so much the money that concerns me, it’s the reliability of the jet that I question. If it can’t be relied on when needed, why bother with it?


PIMF

436 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:21:36pm

re: #421 Guanxi88

Don’t let’s go down that road, again.

If you think McCain was a conservative’s conservative, you’re woefully misinformed about the state of the party and his position on the Republican party.

I seem to recall that Kerry was awfully fond of McCain. Is Kerry, then, a bush supporter?

You can be friends with someone without having to buy into their political beliefes, and I’d argue that thinking otherwise is what is screwing up the American political system these days, or at least one of the things screwing it up….

437 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:21:48pm

re: #429 Varek Raith

well in fairness that’s Steves MO.

He always accelerates any disagreement to the worst fight possible. Like I said above, its abusive behavior.

438 albusteve  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:22:08pm

re: #424 jamesfirecat

With all do respect, F*** YOU! You think we should be spending money that could be helping unemployed people find work and get by in this tough economy on a bunch of shiney planes to sit in a hanger and look pretty?

You sir give the appearance of having no sense of care for your fellow man’s suffering.

oh please…are you stroking?…btw prepare yourself for near permanent 8% unemployment, courtesy BO and friends, which has nothing to do with defense spending…get a grip

439 lazardo  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:22:41pm

re: #408 WindUpBird

So you are actually more pessimistic about the JBS than I am. :D

The JBS isn’t the only thing I’m pessimistic about. :D

440 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:23:17pm

re: #429 Varek Raith

Errr, that’s over the top.

I tried to be Polite about it but, really it’s hard not to get angry when someone suggests its more important to blow up people in another country than look after the quality of life in this one….

441 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:23:28pm

re: #436 jamesfirecat

You can be friends with someone without having to buy into their political beliefes, and I’d argue that thinking otherwise is what is screwing up the American political system these days, or at least one of the things screwing it up…

No, not the friendship thing. As I recall, there was talk of him selecting McCain as his running mate some years back.

He’s not likely to choose a conservative republican for that gig.

442 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:23:41pm

re: #432 Charles

No GOP politician is going to advertise their membership in the JBS.

But the John Birch Society would, and they do, and I can’t find any one of note on any of their list, at least any profiled GOP. The JBS have always been proud of what membership they have, have even inflated their numbers over the years…

443 BunnyThief  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:23:42pm

re: #418 Charles

After everything I’ve posted about the JBS, it’s kind of amazing to me that we’re even having this discussion about whether they’re a bad influence.

It’s not the “bad” part, it’s the “influence.” It’s the degree of how influere: #424 jamesfirecat

With all do respect, F*** YOU! You think we should be spending money that could be helping unemployed people find work and get by in this tough economy on a bunch of shiney planes to sit in a hanger and look pretty?

You sir give the appearance of having no sense of care for your fellow man’s suffering.

With all due respect, where the F*** do you think those planes are made? And by whom?

Now, I don’t like the idea of defense money being a back-door jobs program, but it’s one way that the government fulfills its obligations AND boosts the economy.

444 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:23:42pm

re: #420 The Shadow Do

Disagree (surprise). The money comes from the base. Elections are won in the middle. Hence pandering in the primaries and a sudden middle of the road epiphany in the general.

Great system really. Brooks not the extremes of either side.

I know all this. But the problem is when a party’s base becomes cancerous. Then then have the ability to pull the middle over, and to gain some influence over candidates who will then pander to the cancerous ultra-populist rhetoric to keep the base happy. And then what will likely happen is the GOP will stay a regional minority on average, and the Bircher base will be bigger fish in a shrinking pond.

All party bases are not created equal, ya know?

445 albusteve  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:23:54pm

re: #429 Varek Raith

Errr, that’s over the top.

used to be…not anymore tho

446 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:24:12pm

re: #437 windsagio

well in fairness that’s Steves MO.

He always accelerates any disagreement to the worst fight possible. Like I said above, its abusive behavior.

I thought you were talking about me when you made that comment…

447 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:24:18pm

re: #441 Guanxi88

I’ve always thought that McCain took the wrong lesson from the 2000 election and sold his soul for a shot at 2008.

His voting record was quite different before that.

448 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:24:40pm
449 albusteve  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:24:50pm

re: #440 jamesfirecat

I tried to be Polite about it but, really it’s hard not to get angry when someone suggests its more important to blow up people in another country than look after the quality of life in this one…

that’s purely your presumption…go watch some cartoons and chill out

450 tradewind  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:24:50pm

At least the Republicans don’t have a subsidiary named Moveon.org claiming ’ We bought it , We own it’.

“It’s our Party,” MoveOn’s twenty-four-year-old executive director, Eli Pariser, declared in an e-mail. “We bought it, we own it and we’re going to take it back”.


rollingstone.com

451 jaunte  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:25:03pm

re: #440 jamesfirecat

I tried to be Polite about it but, really it’s hard not to get angry when someone suggests its more important to blow up people in another country than look after the quality of life in this one…

I’m pretty sure albusteve doesn’t want to blow people up.

452 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:25:40pm
453 albusteve  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:25:43pm

re: #437 windsagio

well in fairness that’s Steves MO.

He always accelerates any disagreement to the worst fight possible. Like I said above, its abusive behavior.

you don’t count…yak away tho Eintsein

454 The Shadow Do  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:25:55pm

re: #421 Guanxi88

McCain is a Conservative. Learn to live with it my friend.

455 BunnyThief  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:26:04pm

re: #450 tradewind

At least the Republicans don’t have a subsidiary named Moveon.org claiming ’ We bought it , We own it’.


[Link: www.rollingstone.com…]

Crap, it was MoveOn, not Kos, that claimed to have bought and paid for the Dems. My apologies, folks. Thanks for the correction, tradewind.

456 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:26:06pm

re: #447 windsagio

I’ve always thought that McCain took the wrong lesson from the 2000 election and sold his soul for a shot at 2008.

His voting record was quite different before that.

See, I see it differently. To my mind, his defeat was not a function of running as a conservative. The party ought never to have given him the nomination; you give a retiree a gold watch, not your party’s nod.

Sold his soul? hardly.

457 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:26:38pm

re: #443 BunnyThief

With all due respect, where the F*** do you think those planes are made? And by whom?

Now, I don’t like the idea of defense money being a back-door jobs program, but it’s one way that the government fulfills its obligations AND boosts the economy.

Sorry, I just have flashes of 1984 when they talk about how the governments use war machines to make people spend time and effort to build things without making it any better for themselves…

I’d rather government money stimulated the economy by building roads, bridges and damns than guns, bombs and planes.

458 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:26:43pm

re: #454 The Shadow Do

McCain is a Conservative. Learn to live with it my friend.

In that he’s not a leftist, absolutely. But not much further than that.

459 The Shadow Do  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:26:58pm

re: #424 jamesfirecat

With all do respect, F*** YOU! You think we should be spending money that could be helping unemployed people find work and get by in this tough economy on a bunch of shiney planes to sit in a hanger and look pretty?

You sir give the appearance of having no sense of care for your fellow man’s suffering.

Mr. Talking Point speaks…

460 van helsing  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:27:25pm

re: #443 BunnyThief

With all due respect, where the F*** do you think those planes are made? And by whom?

Now, I don’t like the idea of defense money being a back-door jobs program, but it’s one way that the government fulfills its obligations AND boosts the economy.

I understand there are going to be a lot people from the manned spaceflight programs looking for work soon.

I love the idea of private companies having a shot at manned spaceflight (not really intending to pun there), but it’s going to be a long damn time before the reach point where NASA has been.

I don’t understand that budget decision at all.

461 albusteve  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:27:31pm

re: #434 Varek Raith

It’s not so much the money that concerns me, it’s the reliability of the jet that I question. If it can be relied on when needed, why bother with it?

it takes time and money to work out the kinks…like I said I’d like to see about 300 of them, not thousands

462 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:27:36pm

re: #457 jamesfirecat

Sorry, I just have flashes of 1984 when they talk about how the governments use war machines to make people spend time and effort to build things without making it any better for themselves…

I’d rather government money stimulated the economy by building roads, bridges and damns than guns, bombs and planes.

Unfortunately, reality disagrees with you.

463 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:27:44pm

re: #452 MandyManners

Are you suggesting that any are members?

Ron Paul is probably a member, but I don’t know for sure. He’s been involved with them for decades.

464 Mich-again  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:27:51pm

re: #409 Charles
I recall when the Ron Paul revulsion just started we pegged him as a Bircher. That was back before the JBS scrubbed their website.

465 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:27:52pm

re: #221 reine.de.tout

It was a quote.
From a “right wing republican site”
To demonstrate the depths that the “party” can go to
in describing “OUR” elected President.

*waves*
Hi Reine!

466 tradewind  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:27:52pm

re: #451 jaunte
His point probably has something to do with the fact that if your country is the target of terrorists’ attacks, your quality of life tends to suck. In fact, if you get wiped out in one of those attacks, as over three thousand Americans and others did in 2001, you could say you have no quality of life at all.//
Priorities.

467 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:27:55pm

re: #440 jamesfirecat

I tried to be Polite about it but, really it’s hard not to get angry when someone suggests its more important to blow up people in another country than look after the quality of life in this one…

Psst! National defense and domestic spending isn’t an either/or proposition. And don’t be so sure that simply shoveling money out of the back of a speeding train is the best way to help people, too.

468 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:28:24pm

re: #463 Charles

Ron Paul is probably a member, but I don’t know for sure. He’s been involved with them for decades.

Paul wouldn’t surprise me at all. Illuminati talk, gold-buggery (hee! hee!) and what-not.

469 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:28:34pm

re: #230 reine.de.tout

I dunno -
my gay brother e-mailed it to me once, but I lost it .

Snicker!

470 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:28:44pm

re: #418 Charles

After everything I’ve posted about the JBS, it’s kind of amazing to me that we’re even having this discussion about whether they’re a bad influence.

IMO the discussion has been more about whether their influence is so toxic that they should be expelled, not WHETHER they are a bad influence.

471 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:28:45pm

re: #456 Guanxi88

See, I see it differently. To my mind, his defeat was not a function of running as a conservative. The party ought never to have given him the nomination; you give a retiree a gold watch, not your party’s nod.

Sold his soul? hardly.

He sure tossed away a lot of credibility with the Palin pick.

but he won the nomination, he was the GOP’s best shot against Obama. Rudy? A gong show. Romney? Unleectable because he’s Mormon. Everyone else was either not charismatic enough, scandal-ridden, or staying away in drovers.

Who would you have run in 2008?

472 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:28:54pm
473 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:28:58pm

re: #461 albusteve

it takes time and money to work out the kinks…like I said I’d like to see about 300 of them, not thousands

Good point. I just think we tend to put more emphasis on high tech weapons built in low numbers. Like the Zumwalt.

474 van helsing  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:29:03pm

re: #424 jamesfirecat

With all do respect, F*** YOU! You think we should be spending money that could be helping unemployed people find work and get by in this tough economy on a bunch of shiney planes to sit in a hanger and look pretty?

You sir give the appearance of having no sense of care for your fellow man’s suffering.

Attacks on this country tend to fuck with one’s quality of life, too.

475 tradewind  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:29:10pm

re: #455 BunnyThief
That’s all right, the blog was practically their newsletter anyway.

476 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:29:18pm

If you want to know one BIG reason why the JBS is coming back, it’s because there’s serious money behind this group: Koch Family Foundations.

477 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:29:19pm

re: #15 Charles

It might help if anyone on the right actually protested having the John Birch Society and the Oathkeepers at CPAC.

After a couple of half-hearted “wait a minutes” from people like Jonah Goldberg, the whole right wing seems to have just accepted the JBS into the fold.

I would like to see protesters outside.

478 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:29:27pm

re: #467 The Sanity Inspector

Psst! National defense and domestic spending isn’t an either/or proposition. And don’t be so sure that simply shoveling money out of the back of a speeding train is the best way to help people, too.

Well my opponent (but not my enemy learned that mistake last time) suggested to take money from the stimulus to pay for more F-22’s and doing it that way would make it something of an “either or” wouldn’t it?

479 McSpiff  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:29:34pm

re: #461 albusteve

I’d like to see them in a special operations air support role, not sure I’d like to see them replace Helos in a day to day role…

Things like CSAR, and POW recovery they seem perfect.

480 Olsonist  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:29:43pm

re: #443 BunnyThief

With all due respect, where the F*** do you think those planes are made? And by whom?

Now, I don’t like the idea of defense money being a back-door jobs program, but it’s one way that the government fulfills its obligations AND boosts the economy.

Pick a number. A large number. We’ll call that the Defense Budget. Now, given that large number how do we best protect the country, now and in the near to medium term future?

Given this large number, you can buy X number of Raptors at $138M per or you can buy 8X F16s at $17M per. Is the country safer with 1 F22 or 8 F16s?

481 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:29:47pm
482 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:29:52pm

re: #448 MandyManners

Well, I don’t know quite how to take that.

A slightly inappropriate joke, would be the most charitable way.

Please don’t whack me…

483 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:30:13pm

re: #474 van helsing

Attacks on this country tend to fuck with one’s quality of life, too.

Yes and we all know how important the F-22 is for defending against hijacked jet liners!

484 lazardo  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:30:15pm

re: #457 jamesfirecat

Sorry, I just have flashes of 1984 when they talk about how the governments use war machines to make people spend time and effort to build things without making it any better for themselves…

I’d rather government money stimulated the economy by building roads, bridges and damns than guns, bombs and planes.

But fighter aircraft are cool! ;_;

/big Ace Combat series fan.

485 Gus  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:30:19pm

re: #434 Varek Raith

It’s not so much the money that concerns me, it’s the reliability of the jet that I question. If it can be relied on when needed, why bother with it?

It’s reliable. It’s just expensive to maintain, train, and upkeep. 187 units is a fine number. People seem to misunderstand it’s role as an air superiority fighter.

Since people are trying to raise the ideological grounds for its cancellation it should be noted that it was done with agreement by Secretary of Defense Robert Gates and Deputy Secretary of Defense Gordon England. Both were Bush appointees with Gordon leaving office in February of last year. Gordon promoted the F-35.

486 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:30:21pm

re: #480 Olsonist

Pick a number. A large number. We’ll call that the Defense Budget. Now, given that large number how do we best protect the country, now and in the near to medium term future?

Given this large number, you can buy X number of Raptors at $138M per or you can buy 8X F16s at $17M per. Is the country safer with 1 F22 or 8 F16s?

Think how many Phantoms we could buy! :D

487 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:30:24pm

re: #482 The Sanity Inspector

A slightly inappropriate joke, would be the most charitable way.

Please don’t whack me…

I sense a disturbance in the Force…

488 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:30:44pm

re: #471 WindUpBird

He sure tossed away a lot of credibility with the Palin pick.

but he won the nomination, he was the GOP’s best shot against Obama. Rudy? A gong show. Romney? Unleectable because he’s Mormon. Everyone else was either not charismatic enough, scandal-ridden, or staying away in drovers.

Who would you have run in 2008?

Palin was a joke; she undermined the critique of Obama’s green-ness (in the sense of inexperienced).

Rudy would have been all right, but he wasn’t up to the challenge. Romney - religious bigotry. I kinda thought someone like, say, Fred Thompson, who was a perfectly well-known guy with no scandals that leap immediately to mind, might have had a chance.

Truth is though, it probably wouldn’t have mattered.

489 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:30:53pm
490 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:31:04pm

re: #25 Charles

It’s very simple. The John Birch Society should have been shunned immediately. Not allowed to be a cosponsor. Same with the Oathkeepers militia group.

But they weren’t.

I once was working for a semi-environmental organization that almost let the CEO of Maxxam be a co-sponsor of a dinner in the middle of the Headwaters Redwood controversy.

We said no, after I pointed out the problem.

This is similar.

491 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:31:04pm

re: #463 Charles

Ron Paul is probably a member, but I don’t know for sure. He’s been involved with them for decades.

As I said above, the JBS has never been shy in publicly acknowledging important members, not in the 30 years or so I have been keeping an eye on them. On the local level they have been rather proud of some of their membership.

And with the advent of the internet and bloggers and citizen reporters (such as yourself), I would be very surprised that anyone with a high profile could keep it a secret very long even if they wanted to.

492 McSpiff  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:31:43pm

re: #489 MandyManners

The Illuminati talk goes BOTH ways.

The Illuminati are talking about Ron Paul?

493 albusteve  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:31:52pm

re: #463 Charles

Ron Paul is probably a member, but I don’t know for sure. He’s been involved with them for decades.

I have a gut feeling, many Republicans are members, probably some notable people…all underground, clean as a whistle…they would know they are not mainstream yet…these are career pols we are talking about, and some very slick people

494 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:32:04pm

re: #478 jamesfirecat

Well my opponent (but not my enemy learned that mistake last time) suggested to take money from the stimulus to pay for more F-22’s and doing it that way would make it something of an “either or” wouldn’t it?

Insofar as that particular pot of money is concerned, sure. But you were coming across as if you believed that defense spending was illegitimate altogether.

495 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:32:06pm
496 tradewind  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:32:09pm

What’s the deal with Rand Paul?
Is he a clone of his father, or does he have a different take on politics? Often, the apple does fall some distance from the tree, especially in politics. At least that’s what one former Congressman from my hometown is hoping the people of NY state will understand, as he tries to get the democratic nomination for Senator.

497 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:32:21pm

re: #488 Guanxi88

Palin was a joke; she undermined the critique of Obama’s green-ness (in the sense of inexperienced).

Rudy would have been all right, but he wasn’t up to the challenge. Romney - religious bigotry. I kinda thought someone like, say, Fred Thompson, who was a perfectly well-known guy with no scandals that leap immediately to mind, might have had a chance.

Truth is though, it probably wouldn’t have mattered.

Fred didn’t seem to have the energy or the will. I figured he would have at least been a top shelf contender in the primary, but he just never seemed to want it.

498 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:32:49pm

re: #492 McSpiff

The Illuminati are talking about Ron Paul?

One of our their greatest triumphs! The fools have no idea that he and senoJ lexA are both in my our their pocket.

499 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:33:35pm

re: #493 albusteve

I have a gut feeling, many Republicans are members, probably some notable people…all underground, clean as a whistle…they would know they are not mainstream yet…these are career pols we are talking about, and some very slick people

And a politician can’t even keep it a secret when he taps his foot in a mens room… you think with the spread of the internet and blogs and citizen reporters, there would be a whole hive of secret JBS’ers just lurking in the shadows.

500 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:33:44pm

re: #495 MandyManners

Are they as rich as George Soros and his various foundations that fund Progressive causes?

Tu quoque. Remember, you can’t bring up the other guys.

501 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:33:56pm

re: #495 MandyManners

Are they as rich as George Soros and his various foundations that fund Progressive causes?

The Koch brothers are two of the richest men in America.

502 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:33:59pm

re: #494 The Sanity Inspector

Insofar as that particular pot of money is concerned, sure. But you were coming across as if you believed that defense spending was illegitimate altogether.

I’m sorry that was not my intention. My intention was to say we shouldn’t be robbing money from the stimulus at a time like this in order to pay for shiney air craft that we don’t even use….

503 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:34:29pm
504 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:34:30pm

re: #485 Gus 802

It’s reliable. It’s just expensive to maintain, train, and upkeep. 187 units is a fine number. People seem to misunderstand it’s role as an air superiority fighter.

Since people are trying to raise the ideological grounds for its cancellation it should be noted that it was done with agreement by Secretary of Defense Robert Gates and Deputy Secretary of Defense Gordon England. Both were Bush appointees with Gordon leaving office in February of last year. Gordon promoted the F-35.

I see your point. I guess I’m just a ‘high number of units’ kind of guy.
:)

505 tradewind  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:34:37pm

re: #500 Guanxi88
Yes she can, ipse dixit.//

506 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:34:55pm
507 Political Atheist  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:35:02pm

re: #418 Charles
Wow fast thread.

Charles that is short memories, wishful thinking and quite a few noobs. The first two are not your fault the last is to your credit. :)

What alloys me is this is the crap that keeps me from participating in the primaries. I just can not in good conscience re join the Republicans. Not even the Californian variety. I can just wait and see what the primary system offers up.

I would rather participate, I used to actually walk precincts. To a point I could stay and work from within. But at a point reached years ago I had to walk.

508 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:35:06pm

re: #497 WindUpBird

Fred didn’t seem to have the energy or the will. I figured he would have at least been a top shelf contender in the primary, but he just never seemed to want it.

I think Stephen Colbert had some great bits about how his candidacy kept right on building steam, up to the point that he actually bothered to announce his candidacy….

509 McSpiff  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:35:12pm

re: #500 Guanxi88

Tu quoque. Remember, you can’t bring up the other guys.

You can, but why would you want to? Is it somehow better that the JBS has been getting increased funding just because Soros has been funding shitty groups?

510 Olsonist  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:35:14pm

re: #486 WindUpBird

Think how many Phantoms we could buy! :D

Yes, but the F16 is still a workhorse fighter for the United States Air Force.

511 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:35:21pm

re: #505 tradewind

Yes she can, ipse dixit.//

viditur quod

sed contra….

512 generalsparky  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:35:24pm

re: #497 WindUpBird

Fred didn’t seem to have the energy or the will. I figured he would have at least been a top shelf contender in the primary, but he just never seemed to want it.

Fred was the first politician I ever gave money to…willingly. I didn’t even get the “Thank you” email until after he had dropped out of the race a week later. I was bummed.

513 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:35:35pm

re: #28 brookly red

you do lock your doors, no?

I have a lock and a softball bat, not a state-of-the-art panic room.

514 Mich-again  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:35:42pm

If anyone is new to the game and think they can research the JBS by perusing their website, be advised they scrubbed the place clean about the time Ron Paul was getting popular. Before then you could find articles about Jewish bankers controlling the world and how Israel was turning Gaza into a concentration camp. They’ve been on a big PR campaign to mainstream themselves.

515 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:35:58pm

re: #502 jamesfirecat

I’m sorry that was not my intention. My intention was to say we shouldn’t be robbing money from the stimulus at a time like this in order to pay for shiney air craft that we don’t even use…

Well, lets see, just a few days ago Iran made some interesting threats, to be carried out on Feb. 11th. Now, if this vague threat turns out to be military in nature, you don’t think it would be appropriate, if needed, to divert stimulus money to a war effort if needed?

516 albusteve  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:35:58pm

re: #480 Olsonist

Pick a number. A large number. We’ll call that the Defense Budget. Now, given that large number how do we best protect the country, now and in the near to medium term future?

Given this large number, you can buy X number of Raptors at $138M per or you can buy 8X F16s at $17M per. Is the country safer with 1 F22 or 8 F16s?

let’s just spend the money and have both…what’s the problem with that?

517 van helsing  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:36:06pm

re: #483 jamesfirecat

Yes and we all know how important the F-22 is for defending against hijacked jet liners!

Cute.

Perhaps I should have said our country and it’s interests.

We’re sending anti-missile systems to the Middle East. I’m thinking that might have something to do with Iran. Which is buying air defense technology from Russia.

518 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:36:16pm

re: #509 McSpiff

You can, but why would you want to? Is it somehow better that the JBS has been getting increased funding just because Soros has been funding shitty groups?

Koch family cash.

Soros Cash

Astroturfing, and not reflective of the party as a whole.

519 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:36:17pm

re: #51 Guanxi88

They are, and why wouldn’t they? Don’t these fringe fanatics and lunatics represent the very heart and sould of the modern Republican party?

Which is it? Are they the death of the party, or wildly popular?

Could be both, you know. Taste great, rot your teeth.

520 McSpiff  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:36:49pm

re: #518 Guanxi88

Koch family cash.

Soros Cash

Astroturfing, and not reflective of the party as a whole.

In both cases? In which case I’d agree.

521 jaunte  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:37:03pm

re: #517 van helsing

Cute.

Perhaps I should have said our country and it’s interests.

We’re sending anti-missile systems to the Middle East. I’m thinking that might have something to do with Iran. Which is buying air defense technology from Russia.


Which can shoot down F-16s.

522 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:37:08pm

re: #519 SanFranciscoZionist

yeah.

Again: Selling out the longterm for the shortterm.

523 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:37:17pm

re: #520 McSpiff

In both cases? In which case I’d agree.

Yep, everybody’s got dirty hands here.

524 prairiefire  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:37:19pm

re: #513 SanFranciscoZionist

My husband introduced me to the baseball bat method of defense! I was unaware of the utility up until then.

525 Gus  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:37:27pm

re: #504 Varek Raith

I see your point. I guess I’m just a ‘high number of units’ kind of guy.
:)

That’s a good theory though. In a long battle of attrition in a prolonged war sometimes sheer numbers and simplicity are better. Hence the Sherman tanks vs. the German Tigers in WWII. Or look at the grief the Mig-17s caused us in Vietnam prior to ACM schools like Top Gun.

526 BunnyThief  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:37:35pm

re: #486 WindUpBird

Think how many Phantoms we could buy! :D

Oddly enough, I think that Phantoms might just be adequate for most likely scenarios in the immediate future…

But I’d prefer Fighting Falcons/Vipers (ultracool nickname given the F-16 by the Russians) over Phantoms. And damn, I wish we’d built the F-16XL arrowhead… damn, that was one awesome-looking bird.

527 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:37:40pm

re: #514 Mich-again

If anyone is new to the game and think they can research the JBS by perusing their website, be advised they scrubbed the place clean about the time Ron Paul was getting popular. Before then you could find articles about Jewish bankers controlling the world and how Israel was turning Gaza into a concentration camp. They’ve been on a big PR campaign to mainstream themselves.

Fortunately I have years and years of their pamphlets and books and white papers and such…

528 tradewind  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:37:50pm

re: #509 McSpiff
Better, or equable?
Keeping a nuclear arsenal because the Soviets and others have one may not make us morally superior, but it damn sure helps keep us safe.//

529 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:37:56pm

re: #524 prairiefire

when I was a kid, a baseball bat outside the front door meant “Your brother has been asking for you to come home so he could attack you. Be ready!”

530 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:38:11pm

re: #515 Walter L. Newton

Well, lets see, just a few days ago Iran made some interesting threats, to be carried out on Feb. 11th. Now, if this vague threat turns out to be military in nature, you don’t think it would be appropriate, if needed, to divert stimulus money to a war effort if needed?

If Iran can somehow pull a magic bunny out of its hat that somehow presents a situation where it would pose a real threat to the US then I think that we should go on a f***ing war footing, and go WW2 on its ass. So yeah, we can take money out of the that particular till if its for a good cause, but do you think F-22s are a good cause?

531 albusteve  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:38:17pm

re: #499 Walter L. Newton

And a politician can’t even keep it a secret when he taps his foot in a mens room… you think with the spread of the internet and blogs and citizen reporters, there would be a whole hive of secret JBS’ers just lurking in the shadows.

there must be one to pick on, somewhere…when he makes a mistake, we’ll nab him!

532 Olsonist  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:38:21pm

re: #516 albusteve

let’s just spend the money and have both…what’s the problem with that?

Sorry, you weren’t clear. Spend more money and have both? That’s a larger number unless you’re George W Bush where the number isn’t part of the normal appropriations process. It just gets added to the mortgage.

533 Political Atheist  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:38:34pm

Cut The Fringe TM

534 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:38:55pm

re: #517 van helsing

Cute.

Perhaps I should have said our country and it’s interests.

We’re sending anti-missile systems to the Middle East. I’m thinking that might have something to do with Iran. Which is buying air defense technology from Russia.

What does the F-22 have to do with missile defense technology?

535 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:39:01pm

re: #532 Olsonist

Sorry, you weren’t clear. Spend more money and have both? That’s a larger number unless you’re George W Bush where the number isn’t part of the normal appropriations process. It just gets added to the mortgage.

Thank goodness we have brought an end to the madness of deficit spending. I can almost hear the national debt falling as I type.

536 jaunte  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:40:13pm

re: #534 jamesfirecat

It’s stealthy, in order to evade missiles.

537 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:40:15pm

re: #530 jamesfirecat

If Iran can somehow pull a magic bunny out of its hat that somehow presents a situation where it would pose a real threat to the US then I think that we should go on a f***ing war footing, and go WW2 on its ass. So yeah, we can take money out of the that particular till if its for a good cause, but do you think F-22s are a good cause?

I don’t know, I know very little about military hardware or it’s uses. I wasn’t even talking about the F-22’s. I was asking you a question about the money, which you answered.

I’m not trying to avoid you question, it’s just out of my area of knowledge and I would be stupid to try to answer.

538 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:40:22pm

re: #53 Conservative Moonbat

The Weathermen haven’t existed since before I was born.

You need a new leftist boogyman

Really, ELF are the only domestic leftist terrorists left, and they’re pretty much out of business except for the occasional arson.

That’s the problem. The modern generation is deeply obnoxious, but too chickenshit to blow stuff up, except by extreme proxy.

539 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:40:24pm

re: #525 Gus 802

That’s a good theory though. In a long battle of attrition in a prolonged war sometimes sheer numbers and simplicity are better. Hence the Sherman tanks vs. the German Tigers in WWII. Or look at the grief the Mig-17s caused us in Vietnam prior to ACM schools like Top Gun.

What we want is a T-34 of planes, solid, reliable, and you can fly it right off the assembly line into battle without even needing to give it a paint job!

540 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:40:24pm

Hey Lizards!

How’s the craziness today —over-the-top or about normal?

and how are you-all?

541 Olsonist  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:40:25pm

re: #535 Guanxi88

Thank goodness we have brought an end to the madness of deficit spending. I can almost hear the national debt falling as I type.

Nah, Obama didn’t end the deficit but at least he’s telling the truth about it.

542 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:40:26pm

re: #525 Gus 802

That’s a good theory though. In a long battle of attrition in a prolonged war sometimes sheer numbers and simplicity are better. Hence the Sherman tanks vs. the German Tigers in WWII. Or look at the grief the Mig-17s caused us in Vietnam prior to ACM schools like Top Gun.

The F-35 is going to be built in large numbers, yes?

543 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:40:58pm

re: #56 Stanley Sea

OK, so I looked up Code Pink and Net Roots (I guess Net Roots could be on the par of CPAC?) Found in 2008 Code Pink protested the stage when Pelosi spoke.

Oh, them. They’re always sayin’ death to someone they don’t like.

544 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:41:01pm

re: #516 albusteve

let’s just spend the money and have both…what’s the problem with that?

Well are you a fiscal conservative?

545 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:41:10pm

re: #541 Olsonist

Nah, Obama didn’t end the deficit but at least he’s telling the truth about it.

True, he’s telling us we can’t go on like this, and then doubling down on the spending.

546 van helsing  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:41:29pm

re: #521 jaunte

Which can shoot down F-16s.

Thank you.

547 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:41:31pm

re: #60 cronus

I’m not sure why this guest list should be surprising. CPAC is a gathering of professional rage mongers and their acolytes. It may be mandatory cattle call for Republican leaders but I doubt most rank and file Republicans even know what it is if they have heard of it at all.

Sort of like Alinsky?

548 Gus  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:41:32pm

re: #542 Varek Raith

The F-35 is going to be built in large numbers, yes?

Yep. It’s also a major boon for Lockheed Martin.

549 McSpiff  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:41:36pm

re: #528 tradewind

Better, or equable?
Keeping a nuclear arsenal because the Soviets and others have one may not make us morally superior, but it damn sure helps keep us safe.//

Or not? I refuse to support shit bags just because the other side does. What’s the good of winning elections when you’re beholden to interests that quite frankly disgust you? I can honestly say I’d never run on a platform of racism or antisemitism, even if it was a guaranteed win.

550 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:41:42pm

re: #542 Varek Raith

I think it got cut too, I don’t really follow these things, but somebody said that upthread :P

551 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:42:12pm

re: #539 jamesfirecat

What we want is a T-34 of planes, solid, reliable, and you can fly it right off the assembly line into battle without even needing to give it a paint job!

For defense of Mother Russia, T-34’s okay. That’s about it, though.

Oh, good for suppressing Eastern Europeans after the war, too.

552 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:42:22pm

re: #537 Walter L. Newton

I don’t know, I know very little about military hardware or it’s uses. I wasn’t even talking about the F-22’s. I was asking you a question about the money, which you answered.

I’m not trying to avoid you question, it’s just out of my area of knowledge and I would be stupid to try to answer.

Okay then fair enough I understand how my statements might have seemed a little broad.

My main point is

1: The pentagon budget should not be a holey caff you can cut things from it without being anti-US /anti-army

2: The F-22 is a good example of this as we don’t need a supersonic stealth fighter in the war on terror.

553 albusteve  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:42:29pm

re: #532 Olsonist

Sorry, you weren’t clear. Spend more money and have both? That’s a larger number unless you’re George W Bush where the number isn’t part of the normal appropriations process. It just gets added to the mortgage.

I’m perfectly clear…fuck the mortgage, I’m all aboard BOs spending blitz

554 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:42:53pm
555 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:43:02pm

re: #536 jaunte

It’s stealthy, in order to evade missiles.

So we’re gonna build more F-22 and sell/give them to Isreal, or are we going to sell/give them the ones we already have?

556 van helsing  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:43:21pm

re: #525 Gus 802

That’s a good theory though. In a long battle of attrition in a prolonged war sometimes sheer numbers and simplicity are better. Hence the Sherman tanks vs. the German Tigers in WWII. Or look at the grief the Mig-17s caused us in Vietnam prior to ACM schools like Top Gun.

“Quantity has a quality all it’s own”.

Commonly attributed to Josef Stalin

557 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:43:25pm

re: #555 jamesfirecat

So we’re gonna build more F-22 and sell/give them to Isreal, or are we going to sell/give them the ones we already have?

And out it comes!

558 albusteve  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:43:29pm

re: #535 Guanxi88

Thank goodness we have brought an end to the madness of deficit spending. I can almost hear the national debt falling as I type.

take cover!…the deficit is falling!

559 Gus  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:43:40pm

Some reference. Let’s look back to 2008…

Gates: F-22 Has No Role in War on Terror

The Air Force’s battle for more F-22s is not looking good. Defense Secretary Robert Gates was about as blunt as he could be in his assessment of the F-22 during his congressional testimony, basically saying the obvious: it ain’t too useful for the war on terror. As Defense Daily reports:

“The reality is we are fighting two wars, in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the F-22 has not performed a single mission in either theater. So it is principally for use against a near peer in a conflict, and I think we all know who that is,” Gates said. “And looking at what I regard as the level of risk of conflict with one of those near peers over the next four or five years until the Joint Strike Fighter comes along, I think that something along the lines of 183 is a reasonable buy.”

560 reine.de.tout  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:43:51pm

Hm.
This is OT to any of the conversations I see going on here, but I’m going to bed, and this story was just too interesting to not post it here.

Henrietta Lacks’ ‘Immortal’ Cells
Journalist Rebecca Skloot’s new book investigates how a poor black tobacco farmer had a groundbreaking impact on modern medicine

561 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:43:52pm

re: #558 albusteve

take cover!…the deficit is falling!

sweet mother of mercy! I’m stuck with all this money!

562 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:43:52pm

re: #304 keloyd

Serious question - did the Jewish Diaspora get to China?

Yes. See also, Kaifeng.

563 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:43:53pm

re: #502 jamesfirecat

I’m sorry that was not my intention. My intention was to say we shouldn’t be robbing money from the stimulus at a time like this in order to pay for shiney air craft that we don’t even use…

Okay, gotcha. Just remember, part of the point of having the shiny aircraft is to lessen the odds of having to use them later.

564 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:43:56pm

Let’s scifi this up!

565 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:44:01pm

re: #552 jamesfirecat

The war on terrorism is not going to be the only war we will have to fight in the next 30+ years. I guarantee it. Shit happens, and I’d rather not be caught flat-footed.

566 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:44:09pm

re: #538 SanFranciscoZionist

Really, ELF are the only domestic leftist terrorists left, and they’re pretty much out of business except for the occasional arson.

That’s the problem. The modern generation is deeply obnoxious, but too chickenshit to blow stuff up, except by extreme proxy.

I don’t call it a ‘problem” when people are too scared to blow things up that don’t belong to them.

That my friend is a feature not a bug!

567 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:44:24pm

re: #555 jamesfirecat

So we’re gonna build more F-22 and sell/give them to Isreal, or are we going to sell/give them the ones we already have?

We aren’t —a corporation is.

Unless we nationalized them? I wasn’t paying attention today.

568 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:44:24pm

re: #315 BunnyThief

And yet no one seems to want to say “boo” about Kos boasting about having “bought and paid for” the Democratic party…

They didn’t. So they can say what they want.

569 jaunte  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:44:26pm

re: #555 jamesfirecat

So we’re gonna build more F-22 and sell/give them to Isreal, or are we going to sell/give them the ones we already have?

I don’t know what the plans are in that area.

570 albusteve  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:44:30pm

re: #542 Varek Raith

The F-35 is going to be built in large numbers, yes?

maybe not…surf the news about it from the last couple of days…the donks are gonna pick on the 35 too I think

571 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:44:43pm
572 Racer X  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:44:49pm

So, when Iran fires off several nukes at Israel sometime around 2017, do we (and Israel) respond by nuking the shit out of Iran? How many millions of innocent Iranians will die? Or do we respond with pinpoint air strikes carried out by the best tactical fighters and bombers the world has ever seen, thereby reducing civilian casualties to the absolute minimum?

Just curious.

573 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:44:50pm

re: #540 ggt

Hey Lizards!

How’s the craziness today —over-the-top or about normal?

and how are you-all?

Yes, yes, and could be worse.

574 Olsonist  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:45:11pm

re: #521 jaunte

Which can shoot down F-16s.

The Serbs shot down an F117. The key is more and better pilots.

575 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:45:11pm

re: #565 Varek Raith

I think the problem is that nobody we’re even remotely likely to fight can afford to develop or buy the kind of planes that would require anything more than the 20 year old planes we have.

576 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:45:34pm

how to counter-protest:

laughingsquid.com

577 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:45:45pm

re: #564 windsagio

Let’s scifi this up!

I’m all for sci-fi.

578 Gus  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:46:03pm

re: #569 jaunte

I don’t know what the plans are in that area.

F-22s are banned from export by law.

579 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:46:06pm

re: #574 Olsonist

The Serbs shot down an F117. The key is more and better pilots.

That was because we flew a predictable flight path over several nights.
..I think.

580 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:46:21pm
581 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:46:32pm

re: #572 Racer X

we already have technology to do that, drones would be better for that anyways.

Anyhoo, you think anything will STOP Israel from turning Iran to glass if they get nuked?

582 albusteve  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:46:37pm

re: #545 Guanxi88

True, he’s telling us we can’t go on like this, and then doubling down on the spending.

what a sick joke…how anyone can defend that guy is beyond me…pure fantasy

583 tradewind  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:46:39pm

re: #549 McSpiff
Well…. good…..
You’re not a racist or an anti-Semite, which just makes you normal.
But I’m not sure what that has to do with the post .

584 jaunte  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:46:40pm

re: #572 Racer X

So, when Iran fires off several nukes at Israel sometime around 2017, do we (and Israel) respond by nuking the shit out of Iran? How many millions of innocent Iranians will die? Or do we respond with pinpoint air strikes carried out by the best tactical fighters and bombers the world has ever seen, thereby reducing civilian casualties to the absolute minimum?

Just curious.

This is a good illustration of the value of being able to evade ground defense missiles.

585 lazardo  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:46:42pm

re: #579 Varek Raith

That was because we flew a predictable flight path over several nights.
..I think.

And the F-117 was already getting old by then.

586 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:46:43pm

re: #554 MandyManners

What do you know about the F-22s?

What about cancelling the C-17s?

And, for that matter, what do you know about Jack-shit when it comes to the military?

I know the F-22 is a supersonic stealth fighter that’s supposed to be invisible to radar which makes it great in dog fights and shooting down other jets.

Last time I checked the Talaban and Alqueda at the moment probably don’t even have radar let alone jets, so why should we spend 120 Million a pop on them if they don’t help us win the war on terror?

587 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:46:54pm

re: #476 Charles

If you want to know one BIG reason why the JBS is coming back, it’s because there’s serious money behind this group: Koch Family Foundations.

Yup, the Koch brothers have been busy these days.

588 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:46:57pm

re: #345 Guanxi88

No, they’re no one I’d be associated with. I think of them as the Republican Party’s version of the maoist international movement - a vicious political cult.

MIM is psychotic.

589 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:47:15pm

re: #557 Guanxi88

And out it comes!

Out what comes?

590 albusteve  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:47:25pm

re: #557 Guanxi88

And out it comes!

there you have it….motive uncovered!

591 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:48:23pm

re: #576 negativ

how to counter-protest:

[Link: laughingsquid.com…]

I like the Rick Roll. (this time)

592 Olsonist  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:48:41pm

re: #559 Gus 802

Basically each of these massive defense systems come with a full time lobbyist attached. It amuses me no end when people see this as a Left v Right thing rather than a Smart v Industry thing.

593 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:48:51pm

re: #477 SanFranciscoZionist

I would like to see protesters outside.

NEA thugs.

594 van helsing  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:48:52pm

re: #534 jamesfirecat

What does the F-22 have to do with missile defense technology?

That would be air defense technology. Anti-aircraft missiles and guns and such.

If Iran starts launching missiles, do you not think we would find it advantageous to destroy those sites? Stealth aircraft do that. Think F117 in Gulf War I.

Current Russian technology is likely to be effective against those. Probably not so much against the F22.

595 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:48:54pm
596 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:49:05pm

re: #590 albusteve

there you have it…motive uncovered!

in bed

597 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:49:27pm

re: #565 Varek Raith

The war on terrorism is not going to be the only war we will have to fight in the next 30+ years. I guarantee it. Shit happens, and I’d rather not be caught flat-footed.

We’ve got 183 of them already, I think that’s enough given that the ones we currently have, have also yet to be made use of according to that guy Gates who Bush Appointed.

Unless suddenly the terrorists attack us from their hidden moon base where they’ve been stockpilling their hightech weapons all along!

598 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:49:46pm
599 tradewind  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:49:50pm

re: #565 Varek Raith
I hope you’re wrong, because there’s the potential for any other kind of armed conflict we would be involved in to be a really short, and really bad, situation.

600 lazardo  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:49:51pm

re: #591 ggt

I like the Rick Roll. (this time)

It’s a time-honored election tactic.

Youtube Video

601 Olsonist  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:49:53pm

re: #579 Varek Raith

That was because we flew a predictable flight path over several nights.
..I think.

Yes. The same thing that happened in Mogadishu.

602 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:49:56pm

re: #592 Olsonist

I think its well-ingrained habit to defend military spending no matter what.

The fact that its a cool “BEST IN THE WORLD!” toy only makes people like it more :P

603 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:50:11pm

re: #359 keloyd

Cool! Have they been there forever or is it just the Europeans that showed up with the imperialism? India seems to have both, but China is really far.
I just assumed your were Chinese because people with an X in their name generally fall into 2 categories: 1. people named Xavier, 2. Chinese people.

Groups of Jews from Persian-speaking areas were present in China from the 1100s on.

604 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:50:29pm

re: #567 ggt

We aren’t —a corporation is.

Unless we nationalized them? I wasn’t paying attention today.

Okay then, that’s fine with me, the point is that the US government shouldn’t be spending any more money on F-22’s as our army doesn’t need them for the war(s) we’re fighting for the forseeable future.

605 Gus  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:50:35pm

re: #592 Olsonist

Basically each of these massive defense systems come with a full time lobbyist attached. It amuses me no end when people see this as a Left v Right thing rather than a Smart v Industry thing.

Right. Which is why John Kerry supported the F-22 in its final arguments. It was “good for Massachusetts.”

606 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:50:49pm

Night… back to the used furniture tomorrow… five days… move that shit… TOMORROW NIGHT REMEMBER… the season opener of LOST.

607 albusteve  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:50:57pm

re: #565 Varek Raith

The war on terrorism is not going to be the only war we will have to fight in the next 30+ years. I guarantee it. Shit happens, and I’d rather not be caught flat-footed.

just look at what those asshole liberals did to the RSVN…they’d do it to ourselves in a heartbeat

608 The Shadow Do  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:51:11pm

re: #575 windsagio

I think the problem is that nobody we’re even remotely likely to fight can afford to develop or buy the kind of planes that would require anything more than the 20 year old planes we have.

Russia is rolling out stealth. They will sell these aircraft to folks we don’t count as friends. It is really that simple.

609 albusteve  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:51:50pm

re: #566 jamesfirecat

I don’t call it a ‘problem” when people are too scared to blow things up that don’t belong to them.

That my friend is a feature not a bug!

you are young and idealistic…it will pass with age, or you’re fucked

610 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:52:05pm
611 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:52:11pm

re: #600 lazardo

It’s a time-honored election tactic.


[Video]

NOT FALLING FOR IT

:)

612 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:52:21pm

re: #608 The Shadow Do

who can afford to buy more of those planes than the number of F-22’s we already have?

re: #607 albusteve

Lord, remember the thing about Vietnam being Over 46 years ago?

613 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:52:32pm

re: #555 jamesfirecat

So we’re gonna build more F-22 and sell/give them to Isreal, or are we going to sell/give them the ones we already have?

Wouldn’t it be tactically useful for the USAF to be able to fly over NK or Iran (or anywhere else) and know that its fighters cannot be shot down and can destroy any airborne threats?

614 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:52:40pm

re: #608 The Shadow Do

Russia is rolling out stealth. They will sell these aircraft to folks we don’t count as friends. It is really that simple.

The Sukhoi PAK FA.

615 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:52:55pm

re: #590 albusteve

there you have it…motive uncovered!

What are you suggesting my motive is? Because you apparently know me better than I know myself at the moment…

616 tradewind  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:52:57pm

re: #589 jamesfirecat
I smell ’ the Israeli lobby’ in there somewhere.

617 prairiefire  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:52:59pm

re: #560 reine.de.tout

Night Reine.
Ms Lack was an amazing woman! One of God’s gifts. Thanks for posting that.

618 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:53:16pm

re: #602 windsagio

I think its well-ingrained habit to defend military spending no matter what.

The fact that its a cool “BEST IN THE WORLD!” toy only makes people like it more :P

I thought the fact that the military was decimated “during the 90’s” is the reason we are trying to bolster it now.

?

619 Olsonist  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:53:32pm

re: #602 windsagio

I think its well-ingrained habit to defend military spending no matter what.

The fact that its a cool “BEST IN THE WORLD!” toy only makes people like it more :P

I’m not opposed to military spending. I’m opposed to dumb military spending. I’d rather they spent what they are going to spend on that which makes us safer. That’s not an F22. An F22 is good for certain jobs in certain Congressional districts but it isn’t good for the predicted threats over the next 20 years.

620 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:53:42pm

re: #559 Gus 802

Some reference. Let’s look back to 2008…

Gates: F-22 Has No Role in War on Terror

Yep. Sadly, the F-22 may join the F-111 Aardvark as a plane that was more useful for the problem-solving experience it gave the designers, rather than for any military service it turned in.

621 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:53:47pm

re: #618 ggt

I thought that that was a ‘lie’ ;)

622 tradewind  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:53:55pm

re: #606 Walter L. Newton
It could be worse…you could be liftin’ color tvs and microwave ovens….

623 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:54:00pm

re: #421 Guanxi88

Don’t let’s go down that road, again.

If you think McCain was a conservative’s conservative, you’re woefully misinformed about the state of the party and his position on the Republican party.

I seem to recall that Kerry was awfully fond of McCain. Is Kerry, then, a bush supporter?

This is the perception problem we have, where, outside their respective parties, McCain is considered a hardcore conservative, and Obama a raving socialist.

625 BunnyThief  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:54:19pm

re: #604 jamesfirecat

Okay then, that’s fine with me, the point is that the US government shouldn’t be spending any more money on F-22’s as our army doesn’t need them for the war(s) we’re fighting for the forseeable future.

“Our army” hasn’t needed fighters since the Air Force spun off from it over 60 years ago. Learn a little, please.

626 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:54:29pm

re: #604 jamesfirecat

Okay then, that’s fine with me, the point is that the US government shouldn’t be spending any more money on F-22’s as our army doesn’t need them for the war(s) we’re fighting for the forseeable future.

If we could forsee wars, the diplomats would rule the world.

oh, wait, they think they do.

627 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:54:30pm

re: #619 Olsonist

OH I agree!

But people can’t differentiate the 2.

628 albusteve  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:54:35pm

re: #586 jamesfirecat

I know the F-22 is a supersonic stealth fighter that’s supposed to be invisible to radar which makes it great in dog fights and shooting down other jets.

Last time I checked the Talaban and Alqueda at the moment probably don’t even have radar let alone jets, so why should we spend 120 Million a pop on them if they don’t help us win the war on terror?

because we can…it’s pocket change

629 Olsonist  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:54:37pm

re: #605 Gus 802

Right. Which is why John Kerry supported the F-22 in its final arguments. It was “good for Massachusetts.”

Up dinging was insufficient. You get the big yup.

630 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:54:40pm

re: #598 MandyManners

Wiki is great.

Yes, yes it is.

631 tradewind  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:55:13pm

re: #624 Racer X
I knew I counted at least five…….
Who knew??

632 The Shadow Do  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:55:14pm

re: #604 jamesfirecat

Okay then, that’s fine with me, the point is that the US government shouldn’t be spending any more money on F-22’s as our army doesn’t need them for the war(s) we’re fighting for the forseeable future.

Where’d you get that crysal ball at? Somebody cut you into strategic planning sessions lately?

Comfort zones are, well, comfy.

633 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:55:20pm

re: #445 albusteve

used to be…not anymore tho

Used to be nothing was over the top, but only in one direction.

634 van helsing  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:55:30pm

re: #574 Olsonist

The Serbs shot down an F117. The key is more and better pilots.

With anti-aircraft missiles from the same source as the Iranians are buying from.

635 lazardo  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:55:33pm

re: #624 Racer X

16 Lies in 7 Minutes: Obama’s First State Of The Union Video Breakdown


[Video]

An honest question back to you:

Were you more interested in the launch of the iPad?

/really! q;

636 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:55:41pm

re: #610 MandyManners

The depth of ignorance you display is immesureable.

Then educate me rather than just bitching about it.

637 Gus  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:55:42pm

re: #629 Olsonist

Up dinging was insufficient. You get the big yup.

Gracias for the big yup.

638 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:55:59pm

re: #628 albusteve

Now thats some fiscal responsibility!

639 prairiefire  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:56:00pm

re: #572 Racer X

So, when Iran fires off several nukes at Israel sometime around 2017, do we (and Israel) respond by nuking the shit out of Iran? How many millions of innocent Iranians will die? Or do we respond with pinpoint air strikes carried out by the best tactical fighters and bombers the world has ever seen, thereby reducing civilian casualties to the absolute minimum?

Just curious.

If Iran fires nukes at Israel, Iran is glass.

640 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:56:01pm
641 Mich-again  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:56:02pm

re: #527 Walter L. Newton

Fortunately I have years and years of their pamphlets and books and white papers and such…

hmmm those could prove useful.

642 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:56:11pm

re: #621 windsagio

I thought that that was a ‘lie’ ;)

I just know what I read in the 9/11 report.

/

643 albusteve  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:56:25pm

re: #597 jamesfirecat

We’ve got 183 of them already, I think that’s enough given that the ones we currently have, have also yet to be made use of according to that guy Gates who Bush Appointed.

Unless suddenly the terrorists attack us from their hidden moon base where they’ve been stockpilling their hightech weapons all along!

the program is dead, machinery scrapped…very bad move, but not unforseen

644 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:56:25pm

re: #463 Charles

Ron Paul is probably a member, but I don’t know for sure. He’s been involved with them for decades.

From W.F. Buckley:

Welch refused to divulge the size of the society’s membership, though he suggested it was as high as 100,000 and could reach a million. His method of organization caused general alarm. The society comprised a series of cells, no more than twenty people per cell. It was said that its members were directed to run in secret for local offices and to harass school boards and librarians on the matter of the Communist nature of the textbooks and other materials they used.

I doubt that has changed much.

645 Olsonist  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:56:42pm

re: #628 albusteve

because we can…it’s pocket change

Good. Then we can do Single Payer National Health Care too since it’s pocket change.

646 tradewind  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:56:48pm

re: #598 MandyManners
Just don’t ever use it as your life line when there’s any real money being wagered.///

647 The Shadow Do  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:56:55pm

re: #612 windsagio

who can afford to buy more of those planes than the number of F-22’s we already have?

re: #607 albusteve

Lord, remember the thing about Vietnam being Over 46 years ago?

These planes are shovel ready. Stimulus!

648 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:57:13pm

re: #640 MandyManners

Are you just going to abuse and insult people, or do you have something productive to say?

649 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:57:28pm

re: #467 The Sanity Inspector

Psst! National defense and domestic spending isn’t an either/or proposition. And don’t be so sure that simply shoveling money out of the back of a speeding train is the best way to help people, too.

And the Nanny State/Daddy State discussion roars back to life…how I missed it!

650 albusteve  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:57:34pm

re: #615 jamesfirecat

What are you suggesting my motive is? Because you apparently know me better than I know myself at the moment…

I’ve reduced you to the ‘make fun of’ department…you are worthless otherwise to me

651 What, me worry?  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:57:49pm

re: #603 SanFranciscoZionist

Groups of Jews from Persian-speaking areas were present in China from the 1100s on.

There are the Harbin Jews who crossed over from Russia. There’s a lot of stories about them.

bjreview.com.cn

Then there’s the Jews of Kaifeng.

kulanu.org

In fact, that Kulanu link is dedicated to Jews in odd places.

652 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:57:51pm

re: #647 The Shadow Do

hah that would be an argument for them, but its an inefficient way to spend the money >>

653 lazardo  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:57:58pm

re: #639 prairiefire

If Iran fires nukes at Israel, Iran is glass.

I’m disappointed that the Iron Dome is a missile shield and not “lasers.”

/goddammit, when are we gonna get space lasers? D:

654 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:58:05pm

re: #648 windsagio

Are you just going to abuse and insult people, or do you have something productive to say?

Mandy can do what she pleases.

655 McSpiff  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:58:07pm

re: #640 MandyManners

Shows you don’t know dick about war.

What’s your credentials again?

656 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:58:25pm

re: #572 Racer X

So, when Iran fires off several nukes at Israel sometime around 2017, do we (and Israel) respond by nuking the shit out of Iran? How many millions of innocent Iranians will die? Or do we respond with pinpoint air strikes carried out by the best tactical fighters and bombers the world has ever seen, thereby reducing civilian casualties to the absolute minimum?

Just curious.

It’s been generally understood that you send roses, you get roses. You send nukes….

657 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:58:26pm

re: #616 tradewind

I smell ’ the Israeli lobby’ in there somewhere.

I brought up Israel because of Van Helsing’s post at 517, excuse me for being foolish enough to not suspect that we could be sending somebody else in the Middle East F-22’s…

658 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:58:55pm

re: #488 Guanxi88

Palin was a joke; she undermined the critique of Obama’s green-ness (in the sense of inexperienced).

Rudy would have been all right, but he wasn’t up to the challenge. Romney - religious bigotry. I kinda thought someone like, say, Fred Thompson, who was a perfectly well-known guy with no scandals that leap immediately to mind, might have had a chance.

Truth is though, it probably wouldn’t have mattered.

Palin screwed up the Obama-is-green argument. I was on the verge of buying it, until the Republicans unleashed this woman who did not seem to know how to get out of a paper bag, and announced she was the new hot thing.

659 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:58:57pm

re: #625 BunnyThief

“Our army” hasn’t needed fighters since the Air Force spun off from it over 60 years ago. Learn a little, please.

I use “army” to mean our combined forces. Now you’re just being anti-semantic.

660 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:59:03pm
661 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:59:06pm

re: #656 Decatur Deb

It’s been generally understood that you send roses, you get roses. You send nukes…

You get peace.

662 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:59:21pm

re: #659 jamesfirecat

+ for good wordplay :)

663 albusteve  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:59:29pm

re: #645 Olsonist

Good. Then we can do Single Payer National Health Care too since it’s pocket change.

do it….the power is there, quit fucking around and get it passed

664 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:59:34pm

re: #653 lazardo

I’m disappointed that the Iron Dome is a missile shield and not “lasers.”

/goddammit, when are we gonna get space lasers? D:

Yes, I want moar dakka pew pew lazers!
;)

665 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:59:38pm

re: #628 albusteve

because we can…it’s pocket change

Something tells me you’re not a fiscal conservative….

666 Olsonist  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:59:46pm

re: #640 MandyManners

Shows you don’t know dick about war.

The ever charming Miss Manners.

667 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:00:05pm
668 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:00:27pm

re: #644 Slumbering Behemoth

It was said that its members were directed to run in secret for local offices and to harass school boards and librarians on the matter of the Communist nature of the textbooks and other materials they used.


That’s been standard conservative policy for a long time now. I wonder how many people are advancing the Birch Society’s agenda without even knowing it. Certainly many more since the election. I’d guess there are at least 10 times more dupes than members. Probably much more.
I’d also be willing to bet Glenn Beck has a much more formal relationship with the Birch Society than most people know.

669 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:00:29pm

All of a sudden I remember how, back in the active army as a tanker around 1983, the T-64 & T-72 were fire breathers that could destroy battalions of M-60’s each. We know a wee bit better. I doubt that their idea of a stealth fighter is any better than their idea of an advanced tank.

Kill the F22. Spend the money on UAV’s & a decent pay raise for the troops.

William

670 albusteve  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:00:49pm

re: #648 windsagio

Are you just going to abuse and insult people, or do you have something productive to say?

do you?….you nip and nag with the best of them

671 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:00:49pm

re: #495 MandyManners

Are they as rich as George Soros and his various foundations that fund Progressive causes?

No one is as rich as Soros. He controls the secret Templar gold.

672 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:01:11pm

re: #667 MandyManners

He’s not here? Seriously. This is exactly what I mentioned earlier.

You’re acting like an abusive spouse right now, trying to browbeat. someone who disagrees with you into silence.

Its awful.

673 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:01:24pm

re: #667 MandyManners

Mandy, on top of everything else in this thread, I don’t think Charles wants that dragged up again.


re: #666 Olsonist

The ever charming Miss Manners.


And that goes double for you.


The man’s sick, let’s not ruckus in the house.

674 Racer X  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:01:26pm

Interesting.

So if the crazy mullahs who are currently in control in Iran NUKE Israel, it will be OK to send millions of innocent Iranians to their deaths.

I find that unacceptable.

675 The Shadow Do  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:01:36pm

re: #652 windsagio

hah that would be an argument for them, but its an inefficient way to spend the money >>

Shovel ready. Conservatives buy them, Libs take them out and bury them. This is your government at its finest. And bipartisan too!

676 Van Helsing  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:01:39pm

re: #625 BunnyThief

“Our army” hasn’t needed fighters since the Air Force spun off from it over 60 years ago. Learn a little, please.

The Army does however love A10s and Apaches.
Nothing sez love like the best close air support on the planet.

677 lazardo  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:01:42pm

re: #659 jamesfirecat

I use “army” to mean our combined forces. Now you’re just being anti-semantic.

Grammar Nazis are anti-Semantic.

678 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:01:54pm

re: #672 windsagio

Don’t make me turn this thread around. We’ll go straight back through the John Birch Society!

679 prairiefire  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:02:02pm

re: #656 Decatur Deb

Night, Decatur! don’t you have work to do tomorrow? (I’m beating you to the exit)
Night, lizards.

680 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:02:08pm
681 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:02:09pm

re: #661 ggt

You get peace.

You make a desert and call it peace.

682 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:02:10pm

re: #632 The Shadow Do

Where’d you get that crysal ball at? Somebody cut you into strategic planning sessions lately?

Comfort zones are, well, comfy.

I’m just basing my statements on what Secretary Gates had to say on the issue.

683 albusteve  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:02:33pm

re: #652 windsagio

hah that would be an argument for them, but its an inefficient way to spend the money >>

ahahaha!….good one!….efficiency is suddenly a talking point!

684 tradewind  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:02:55pm

re: #653 lazardo
Here’s hoping that no one… not even the go-getters at the NYTimes…. knows about everything the US has in the way of defense goodies….///

685 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:03:04pm

re: #675 The Shadow Do

I’m sold! I bet they’d be good for commutes too ;)

686 BunnyThief  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:03:05pm

re: #659 jamesfirecat

I use “army” to mean our combined forces. Now you’re just being anti-semantic.

Oh, that one hurt…

687 albusteve  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:03:28pm

re: #665 jamesfirecat

Something tells me you’re not a fiscal conservative…

something tells me your opinion doesn’t count

688 Olsonist  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:03:35pm

re: #660 MandyManners

Shows you don’t know dick about the difference between Entitlements v. Military.

A lot of people are thinking the F22 is a military entitlement. Actually that line is wasted on you but someone else might benefit from it.

689 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:03:35pm

re: #654 ggt

To the two people who down dinged my post.

Mandy can do as she pleases. She’s been here a lot longer than any of us. Perhaps you should grow some tougher scales.

690 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:03:59pm

re: #678 Obdicut

let me ask you seriously. Should we just let that kind of thing happen ‘for the sake of peace’?

691 The Shadow Do  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:04:16pm

re: #682 jamesfirecat

I’m just basing my statements on what Secretary Gates had to say on the issue.

He said they were not needed to fight the Taliban. Well, no shit.

692 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:04:29pm

re: #566 jamesfirecat

I don’t call it a ‘problem” when people are too scared to blow things up that don’t belong to them.

That my friend is a feature not a bug!

True. I was being silly.

693 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:04:35pm

re: #654 ggt

Mandy can do what she pleases.

Doesn’t mean we have to take her seriously though.

694 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:04:57pm

re: #689 ggt

seniority is an excuse for bad behavior. Got it.


/are you really saying that?

695 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:05:10pm

re: #693 jamesfirecat

Doesn’t mean we have to take her seriously though.

So…why get all worked up about it? Scroll is your friend.
;)

696 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:05:20pm

re: #690 windsagio

Let’s just not fight the same fight every night, okay? This one is stale, dead, old, stinky. It’s ugly, too. I’d like to beat it to death with a stick.

Lets move on to great new fights in the future, and not stick with the rotting corpse of this meta-fight.

697 lazardo  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:05:48pm

re: #684 tradewind

Here’s hoping that no one… not even the go-getters at the NYTimes… knows about everything the US has in the way of defense goodies…///

The video game companies do. But then again that’d work to the military’s advantage by making them look more fictional. q;

698 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:05:50pm

re: #681 Decatur Deb

You make a desert and call it peace.

We didn’t make a desert and we ended WWII.

699 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:06:09pm

re: #612 windsagio

who can afford to buy more of those planes than the number of F-22’s we already have?

re: #607 albusteve

Lord, remember the thing about Vietnam being Over 46 years ago?

I’m older than I thought.

700 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:06:17pm

re: #662 windsagio

+ for good wordplay :)

Stolen from the Daily Show.

701 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:06:33pm

re: #696 Obdicut

I dunno. It seems like what happens then is, each time there’s a point they don’t like they pull out the same old tactic, and shut everything down again.

If you don’t challenge it, it’ll just keep happening, don’t you think?

702 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:07:17pm

re: #694 windsagio

seniority is an excuse for bad behavior. Got it.

/are you really saying that?

When I arrived at LGF, I tried to respect those who had been here. What you call bad behavior, I call “learning the ropes”.

703 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:07:20pm

re: #679 prairiefire

Night, Decatur! don’t you have work to do tomorrow? (I’m beating you to the exit)
Night, lizards.

Prairiefire is right, I’m up too late. ‘Nite, all.

704 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:07:24pm

re: #701 windsagio

I dunno. It seems like what happens then is, each time there’s a point they don’t like they pull out the same old tactic, and shut everything down again.

If you don’t challenge it, it’ll just keep happening, don’t you think?

It’ll happen regardless of whether it’s challenged or not.
Wheee!
:)

705 tradewind  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:07:26pm

re: #668 Killgore Trout
A press that can dig up expunged DUI records can dig up membership in the JBS. If they’re so sure they have stealth Birchers around, I feel sure they’ll manage to bribe or find their way into the necessary records.

706 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:07:31pm
707 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:07:46pm

Bedtime for me, and timeout for you guys. Enjoy!

708 tradewind  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:08:19pm

re: #693 jamesfirecat
Are you using the imperial We?//

709 Van Helsing  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:08:27pm

re: #653 lazardo

I’m disappointed that the Iron Dome is a missile shield and not “lasers.”

/goddammit, when are we gonna get space lasers? D:

Well, it ain’t space but it’s a big honkin’ laser ABL

Or is it being cut in this budget, too?

For the tax payer funded single payer health care vs defense funding? One is in a Constitutional requirement of the Federal government. The other is not.

710 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:08:27pm

Jeez, I go on a beer run and over a hundred comments pop up. I can’t keep up with that. I thought this blog was supposed to be spiraling into irrelevancy, with no one hardly coming here any more?

I’m so disappointed.
///

711 albusteve  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:08:28pm

re: #699 SanFranciscoZionist

I’m older than I thought.

I will never forget that travesty…why should I, and after 06 and 07 in Iraq, nothing has changed

712 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:08:36pm

re: #704 Varek Raith

not if people stand up to it :p


I know its an impossible dream, but one can hope! Its the American way!

713 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:08:53pm

re: #660 MandyManners

Shows you don’t know dick about the difference between Entitlements v. Military.

Yeah, we just put that general welfare thing in as a joke…

714 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:09:27pm

re: #702 ggt

I call it ‘Stockholm syndrome’ :p

715 albusteve  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:09:31pm

re: #701 windsagio

I dunno. It seems like what happens then is, each time there’s a point they don’t like they pull out the same old tactic, and shut everything down again.

If you don’t challenge it, it’ll just keep happening, don’t you think?

you are what we used to call a pussy….you whine a lot

716 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:09:41pm

re: #701 windsagio

Nope. I’m not going to be drawn into this argument. I have no problem calling people on their shit. But this is just a scratch-fest that will achieve nothing and prove nothing, except that Charles is a very patient man.

Its his blog, he’s made it clear he doesn’t want this back and forth bickering, having said so several times. If it’s about something substantive, go for it. If it’s just who-said-what-to-who-when, bickering, he doesn’t want it. That’s my understanding, and it’s what I’m sticking to.

717 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:09:41pm

re: #620 The Sanity Inspector

Yep. Sadly, the F-22 may join the F-111 Aardvark as a plane that was more useful for the problem-solving experience it gave the designers, rather than for any military service it turned in.

Which is a shame. I frequently see it flying around in the skies over Dobbins NAS, tagging along with the Herks, the C-5, and the F/A-18s.

718 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:09:43pm

re: #698 ggt

We didn’t make a desert and we ended WWII.

We made deserts. That’s why people need to be careful of their politics.

719 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:09:46pm

re: #712 windsagio

not if people stand up to it :p

I know its an impossible dream, but one can hope! Its the American way!

Heh, what can I say? I tend to be non-confrontational, until someone/thing ticks me off, then, boom!
:)

720 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:09:53pm
721 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:10:11pm

re: #695 Varek Raith

So…why get all worked up about it? Scroll is your friend.
;)

I for one am not getting worked up, though I do dish out a down ding every so often.

722 lazardo  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:10:41pm

re: #709 Van Helsing

Well, it ain’t space but it’s a big honkin’ laser ABL

Or is it being cut in this budget, too?

For the tax payer funded single payer health care vs defense funding? One is in a Constitutional requirement of the Federal government. The other is not.

I remember that Boeing system from a Discovery Channel special. :D

723 Van Helsing  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:10:48pm

re: #674 Racer X

Interesting.

So if the crazy mullahs who are currently in control in Iran NUKE Israel, it will be OK to send millions of innocent Iranians to their deaths.

I find that unacceptable.

I’m with you. Not as long as we have alternatives.

724 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:11:15pm

re: #716 Obdicut

Sigh, fair enough. And sorry, it wasn’t my intention to get you involved in general, it just doesn’t make any sense to me.

I’ll let it go for now tho’ >

725 tradewind  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:11:18pm

re: #697 lazardo
You’ve been watching too many reruns of Small Soldiers
.// :)

726 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:11:38pm

re: #708 tradewind

Are you using the imperial We?//

No I was talking about LFG as a whole, anyone who doesn’t want to take her seriously doesn’t has to, its just a blog after all…

727 albusteve  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:12:17pm

re: #721 jamesfirecat

I for one am not getting worked up, though I do dish out a down ding every so often.

maybe you guys are learning…stay tuned

728 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:12:26pm

re: #719 Varek Raith

I think its the nature of my work. We get a lot of training and information about this kind of thing, and its a big no-no. Makes it a big deal to me :)

(Staff often treat clients in the same way, and its felony abuse)

729 Olsonist  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:13:54pm

re: #720 MandyManners

Just how is the production of a plane an military entitlement?

I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of this guy President Eisenhower? Didn’t think so. Anyways he gave this total left wing speech about the dangers of the military industrial complex. Maybe you missed it in your high school government class.

730 lazardo  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:14:24pm

re: #725 tradewind

You’ve been watching too many reruns of Small Soldiers
.// :)

The unsuspecting dad character in Small Soldiers is played by the same guy in the Transformers movies. COINCIDENCE?

// :D

731 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:15:05pm

re: #728 windsagio

I think its the nature of my work. We get a lot of training and information about this kind of thing, and its a big no-no. Makes it a big deal to me :)

(Staff often treat clients in the same way, and its felony abuse)

This is Charles blog, if he allows it, it is not abuse. I understand you may be sensitive to it, but you need to switch gears between work and blog.

732 albusteve  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:16:01pm

re: #716 Obdicut

Nope. I’m not going to be drawn into this argument. I have no problem calling people on their shit. But this is just a scratch-fest that will achieve nothing and prove nothing, except that Charles is a very patient man.

Its his blog, he’s made it clear he doesn’t want this back and forth bickering, having said so several times. If it’s about something substantive, go for it. If it’s just who-said-what-to-who-when, bickering, he doesn’t want it. That’s my understanding, and it’s what I’m sticking to.

wrong…personal attacks and name calling asides is what Charles disdains…not bickering or arguing, that’s part of the process….scroll back up and see who calls out the personal stuff, and the name calling…on any thread…go look, there is a distinct pattern, same people every time

733 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:16:07pm

I’m off for a while.

bbiab

734 windsagio  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:16:12pm

re: #731 ggt

Usually I just grin and bear it (or more likely, fight back :p), today was special >>

735 lazardo  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:16:50pm

re: #729 Olsonist

I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of this guy President Eisenhower? Didn’t think so. Anyways he gave this total left wing speech about the dangers of the military industrial complex. Maybe you missed it in your high school government class.

He hoped that the military industry wouldn’t become too greedy to become (a?) complex. I recall reading this article critical of defense contractor bureaucracy in this old issue of International Combat Arms my dad had laying around.

It noted that when Eisenhower ordered his U-2 spy planes, the order was fulfilled completely AND ahead of schedule because the companies just did what they were contracted to do.

736 Van Helsing  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:16:50pm

re: #713 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeah, we just put that general welfare thing in as a joke…

Read the Federalist Papers on general welfare.References

737 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:17:39pm

re: #732 albusteve

Steve, Charles has specifically posted that he’s really tired of bickering. It was the word he used.

And I’m not going to get drawn into it. I’ll call people on their crap as I see it, but I’ve got no interest in this jogging snowballfight. Except that sounds fun, and this isn’t.

738 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:18:13pm

re: #734 windsagio

Usually I just grin and bear it (or more likely, fight back :p), today was special >>

I think I must be tougher than most —even at work, what people are sensitive about doesn’t even show-up on my radar. Sometimes, I think people are too sensitive in public or semi-public situations. They (not you) seem unable to separate a personal life from a public or work life.

I also understand that everyone can have an “off” day.

739 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:19:19pm
740 lazardo  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:19:46pm

Lunch. BBL.

741 Olsonist  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:21:13pm

re: #736 Van Helsing

Read the Federalist Papers on general welfare.References

Interesting. I’ll read through it.

742 Mich-again  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:23:41pm

Here is some context on the Birchers from Stormfront (from the google cache, not the site) The John Birch Society and the Jewish Question

While disclaiming anti-Semitism on one page, on the next Allen is marshaling evidence that Jewish banking families are indeed behind America’s financial woes.
743 albusteve  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:23:53pm

as for myself, I’m willing to call a truce with regard to personal bickering, name call and general bad behavior…normally I’m a jolly guy

744 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:24:22pm
745 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:24:26pm

re: #743 albusteve

as for myself, I’m willing to call a truce with regard to personal bickering, name call and general bad behavior…normally I’m a jolly guy

S…Sa….SANTA!111!
:)

746 cliffster  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:25:18pm

re: #743 albusteve

as for myself, I’m willing to call a truce with regard to personal bickering, name call and general bad behavior…normally I’m a jolly guy

heh heh. heh heh heh. heh heh heh heh. ha ha heh heh heh. heh.

747 The Shadow Do  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:25:59pm

re: #729 Olsonist

I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of this guy President Eisenhower? Didn’t think so. Anyways he gave this total left wing speech about the dangers of the military industrial complex. Maybe you missed it in your high school government class.

This was not a “left wing” speech, though the left has certainly been eager to adopt it as a bumper sticker as they set about disarming America.


The prospect of domination of the nation’s scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present


No bones to pick there.

748 albusteve  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:27:45pm

re: #746 cliffster

heh heh. heh heh heh. heh heh heh heh. ha ha heh heh heh. heh.

I’ll try…what?

749 Van Helsing  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:30:09pm

re: #741 Olsonist

Interesting. I’ll read through it.

All the Papers

750 Olsonist  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:33:46pm

re: #749 Van Helsing

All the Papers

I read through a few back in college. They’re arguments and they give an insight into how the framers thought at the time. And since the framers’ clarity was mathematical and nothing has changed in the 200+ years we aren’t having this discussion, are we?

751 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:36:27pm

re: #640 MandyManners

Shows you don’t know dick about war.

I have seen no evidence whatsoever you’re more knowledgable about war or the weapons of war than Olsonist.

Maybe you are more knowledgable! But I’m currently not seeing it.

752 Van Helsing  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:38:29pm

re: #750 Olsonist

I read through a few back in college. They’re arguments and they give an insight into how the framers thought at the time. And since the framers’ clarity was mathematical and nothing has changed in the 200+ years we aren’t having this discussion, are we?

Obviously one of us isn’t.

753 Olsonist  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:40:30pm

re: #752 Van Helsing

Obviously one of us isn’t.

I was actually reading the Cato piece.

754 Van Helsing  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:48:48pm

re: #753 Olsonist

I was actually reading the Cato piece.

My apologies. I thought your #750 was alluding to the irrelevance of the Framer’s thoughts to this great modern era.

755 Olsonist  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:55:49pm

re: #754 Van Helsing

My apologies. I thought your #750 was alluding to the irrelevance of the Framer’s thoughts to this great modern era.

No the Framers’ thoughts are not irrelevant but I’m far from being in the Original Intent camp. Maybe even the Cato piece shows that looking at the Framers’ original intent is itself subject to interpretation.

756 Eclectic Infidel  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 9:26:11pm

re: #476 Charles

Color me stunned. That’s incredible wealth. Everytime Soros is bashed for his wealth and influence, someone should bring up that…organization.

757 AlexRogan  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 10:44:04pm

re: #33 Charles

Not this year, that’s for sure. They tried very hard to get me to attend previous CPACs.

Well, since your “Why I Broke with the Right” statement, I’m sure you’ve become Public Enemy #1 to the bigoted, batshit-crazy f**kers who have been doing their damnedest to take over and control the GOP as of late….

758 Guanxi88  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:09:50am

re: #588 SanFranciscoZionist

MIM is psychotic.

That’s not a membership requirement, but it is appreciated in applicants.

759 CarryOn  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:24:47am

Great news. I always get better information from bloggers than I do major news outlets. Looking forward to the coverage!

And to be fair, his quote about goat &^##(, he said it was Not his finest moment and said it when he thought twitter was just private between he and his friends.
As if none of you say things to your close pals that you wouldn’t twitter to the world, right? yeah, right.

760 drcordell  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 8:27:27am

re: #759 CarryOn

Great news. I always get better information from bloggers than I do major news outlets. Looking forward to the coverage!

And to be fair, his quote about goat &^##(, he said it was Not his finest moment and said it when he thought twitter was just private between he and his friends.
As if none of you say things to your close pals that you wouldn’t twitter to the world, right? yeah, right.

1) I’m not stupid enough to post anything to the internet under my real name that I don’t expect to be made public.

2) Referring to a Supreme Court Justice as a “goat fucking child molester” is pretty indefensible no matter what the context. Unless you’re Erik Erikson in which case you think it’s HI-LARIOUS.

761 dr. luba  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 8:30:09am

re: #84 Mich-again

Weathermen can still be boogymen, but only in the climate change debate.

In which case they would now be on the right. Far right.


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