New Mexico Republican Suggests Mining the Border

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Tom Mullins, the Republican nominee for a New Mexico Congressional seat, has suggested that it might be a good idea to mine the US-Mexico border.

During the May 18 interview with KNMX radio in Las Vegas, N.M., Mullins said the U.S. could mine the border, install barbed wire and post signs directing would-be border jumpers to cross legally at designated checkpoints.

“We could put land mines along the border. I know it sounds crazy. We could put up signs in 23 different languages if necessary,” Mullins says in the radio interview, where he also expressed concern that terrorists could carry a nuclear weapon across the Mexican border.

He explained Monday the suggestion about land mines was something he’d heard while campaigning, and that it came in response to a complaint that nothing could be done to secure the border.

“When I heard it, I said, ‘Well, that’s an interesting concept,”’ Mullins said.

(Hat tip: wrenchwench.)

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222 comments
1 ShaunP  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:17:04am

One of these ass-hat wingnuts is going to get elected. Not all of them, but at least one of them. Be sure to vote people...

2 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:19:10am
“We could put land mines along the border. I know it sounds crazy. We could put up signs in 23 different languages if necessary,

If you thought it sounded crazy - then you should have stopped right there - because it is crazy.

3 Soap_Man  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:19:12am
“We could put land mines along the border. I know it sounds crazy. We could put up signs in 23 different languages if necessary,” Mullins says in the radio interview, where he also expressed concern that terrorists could carry a nuclear weapon across the Mexican border.

You're right buddy. That is pretty crazy.

4 Soap_Man  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:20:15am

To be honest, when I read the headline, I thought it meant mineral mining.

I thought, "What's the big deal about that?"

Derp.

5 Bagua  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:21:08am

Is there enough coal on the border to justify mining?

6 wrenchwench  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:21:53am

Darthstar's link in the comments beat me by four and a half minutes.

7 albusteve  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:23:41am

crew served weapons!

8 Soap_Man  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:23:51am

Saying "people who are trying to cross the border illegally should be blown up" sounds a lot like "people caught stealing should have their hands cut off."

9 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:24:04am

re: #2 lawhawk

If you thought it sounded crazy - then you should have stopped right there - because it is crazy.

If you have to tell someone it sounds crazy, odds are it probably IS crazy.

10 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:24:21am

What a fucking tool.

There's just nothing really to say about this, except: Why do you want people to die on the border, exactly? I thought what we wanted to do was reduce the deaths in the area, not increase them.

Shithead.

11 Mocking Jay  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:24:29am

Whenever someone says "I know it sounds crazy," it usually is.

12 Kragar  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:24:48am

re: #7 albusteve

crew served weapons!

Thats my line.

13 albusteve  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:25:23am

re: #10 Obdicut

What a fucking tool.

There's just nothing really to say about this, except: Why do you want people to die on the border, exactly? I thought what we wanted to do was reduce the deaths in the area, not increase them.

Shithead.

I think someone is jesting...don't fall too hard

14 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:25:47am

re: #8 Soap_Man

Saying "people who are trying to cross the border illegally should be blown up" sounds a lot like "people caught stealing should have their hands cut off."

And the thing about landmines is how indiscriminate they are.

Get lost in the dark while hiking, accidentally wander near the border = blown up by landmine.

Or a flash flood washes a landmine downstream.

There's a reason we don't just scatter fucking ordinance over the landscape.

15 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:25:52am

Ok, that's fucking batshit insane.

Does anybody really really wonder why the GOP is so derided lately? There was a time when saying something like this out loud got you completely kicked out of the tent. You cannot say anything this unhinged on the left and retain DNC support, period. There isn't equivalence here.

This is nuts, and the GOP is harboring these lunatics and tacitly providing them a veil of legitimacy and support by not throwing them under the bus.

16 albusteve  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:25:56am

re: #12 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Thats my line.

KRAGAR!
I thought you were dead, man

17 Kragar  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:26:41am

re: #11 JasonA

Whenever someone says "I know it sounds crazy," it usually is.

...but I've got grasshoppers taped to my back.

18 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:27:10am

re: #13 albusteve

I think someone is jesting...don't fall too hard

Jokes about landmines are always the best.

Why do you believe he's joking, Steve?

19 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:27:15am

re: #13 albusteve

I think someone is jesting...don't fall too hard

Do you honestly believe Mr. Mullins is joking?

20 Soap_Man  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:27:17am

re: #14 Obdicut

And the thing about landmines is how indiscriminate they are.

Get lost in the dark while hiking, accidentally wander near the border = blown up by landmine.

Or a flash flood washes a landmine downstream.

There's a reason we don't just scatter fucking ordinance over the landscape.

Exactly. Someone needs to talk to the kids in Africa who get their legs blown off by landmines forgotten after decades-old conflicts.

21 jc717  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:27:45am

He probably thinks that this is a crazy idea. But, he thinks that enough people in NM feel that this is a good idea, that it's worth bringing up.

What's the solution to an increasingly xenophobic and out of tough electorate?

22 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:27:49am

re: #15 Fozzie Bear

He's also being a total wimp about it, and saying that he's not advocating it. You know, he's just talking about it. Just like Beck wasn't recommending that book on his show, just discussing it.

23 wrenchwench  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:28:17am

Here's Mullins's statement on immigration from his website:

Immigration

Tom recently toured Ellis Island in New York harbor, the immigration gateway for many in our nation's history. The Statue of Liberty remains a beacon of hope to citizens around the world. Tom encourages everyone to tour this museum and learn about our diverse culture. The American dream can still be realized through hard work, determination, and persistence. If you are here illegally, you must come into the legal light of day. We have numerous laws that are not enforced and New Mexicans demand better from our Federal government regarding enforcement.

Legal immigration, with proper medical screening and documentation, is one of America's best assets toward a bright future. Tom does not agree with amnesty, and believes we need to have illegal immigrants pay both a financial penalty as well as time penalty for breaking our laws.

The federal system utilized to check upon worker immigration status is handicapped by political correctness. Private industry has demonstrated accurate and cost effective administration of drug testing policies, so immigration status verification is clearly possible, without infringing upon citizen rights. Tom believes the policy of bestowing citizenship upon the children of illegal immigrants warrants discussion in the public square. The anchor baby philosophy encourages additional illegal immigration; while legal immigrants' children should receive US Citizenship, we must question the generous award of citizenship to those who break our laws.

Tom is a proponent of legal immigration. If you follow the rules, you should be able to obtain US citizenship. We must remain compassionate to the plight of immigrants, who are seeking that shining city upon a hill.

Emphasis added, for the possible benefit of the candidate.

24 Kragar  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:28:35am

re: #16 albusteve

KRAGAR!
I thought you were dead, man

I was out of commission most of yesterday, hurt my back and was bent over in pain Sunday night and most of Monday.

25 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:28:45am

re: #8 Soap_Man

Saying "people who are trying to cross the border illegally should be blown up" sounds a lot like "people caught stealing should have their hands cut off."

It does seem an...extreme...response. And one that potentially would probably kill as many Border Patrol officers and kids joyriding in the desert as illegal entrants.

I wonder what 23 languages he felt should be used?

26 albusteve  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:30:27am

re: #18 Obdicut

Jokes about landmines are always the best.

Why do you believe he's joking, Steve?

it's too far over the top, and I don't believe he would want people blown to bits...anything is possible tho, but I think it's just a monumentally stupid thing to say...he's an idiot, not a killer

27 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:31:31am

I just got yet another email trying to get me to link to a bogus video from 2009, claiming that it shows heavy weapons on the Gaza flotilla.

This is really starting to look like a deliberate disinformation campaign.

28 albusteve  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:31:53am

re: #21 jc717

He probably thinks that this is a crazy idea. But, he thinks that enough people in NM feel that this is a good idea, that it's worth bringing up.

What's the solution to an increasingly xenophobic and out of tough electorate?


I doubt it....leave me out of this, the dope is a renegade...we don't have that kind of problem here

29 tdg2112  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:31:59am

It's just electioneering. He's gone and said something he knows (or ought to know) won't be done but makes people who get stirred up over illegal immigration and like the idea of being "tough" on them.

Really, just imagine if they mined the border. What would happen? Some US citizen (white kid none the less) out on a camping trip will get blown up. Then you'll have to clear the mines. How stupid would that be? Oh wait, the Republicans could blame the Democrats again, couldn't they? Oh, uh wait, it was a replublican idea.

He knows he can sit there and spout that stuff, becuase anyone pointing out how difficult it is to clear the mines (or keep track of them) requires 100 words for every word he speaks. So he wins the election points.

30 Bagua  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:32:28am

re: #27 Charles

I just got yet another email trying to get me to link to a bogus video from 2009, claiming that it shows heavy weapons on the Gaza flotilla.

This is really starting to look like a deliberate disinformation campaign.

Are they trying to set you up?

31 Kragar  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:32:31am

re: #25 SanFranciscoZionist

It does seem an...extreme...response. And one that potentially would probably kill as many Border Patrol officers and kids joyriding in the desert as illegal entrants.

I wonder what 23 languages he felt should be used?

There is actually an international warning marker for landmines, no text.

32 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:32:36am

re: #23 wrenchwench

Private industry has demonstrated accurate and cost effective administration of drug testing policies,

No, they haven't. This guy has no clue what he's talking about.

And he talks about fining illegal immigrants, but doesn't say word one about employers.


The anchor baby philosophy encourages additional illegal immigration; while legal immigrants' children should receive US Citizenship, we must question the generous award of citizenship to those who break our laws.

A) He doesn't like the Constitution.

B) We don't give citizenship to those who break our laws. The children didn't break our laws.


This guy is incoherent and full of crap.

33 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:32:38am

re: #26 albusteve

it's too far over the top, and I don't believe he would want people blown to bits...anything is possible tho, but I think it's just a monumentally stupid thing to say...he's an idiot, not a killer

Do you think Harry Reid's opponent is joking in her positions? Do you think the JBS is secretly quite rational, and just want to stir up shit?

For someone who is so quick to attribute Obama's actions to ill will, you sure are willing to give right-wing nutjobs the benefit of the doubt.

34 albusteve  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:32:43am

re: #24 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I was out of commission most of yesterday, hurt my back and was bent over in pain Sunday night and most of Monday.

sorry...old age is a bitch, you gotta be darn careful with your back

35 Joo-LiZ  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:33:11am

re: #27 Charles

I just got yet another email trying to get me to link to a bogus video from 2009, claiming that it shows heavy weapons on the Gaza flotilla.

This is really starting to look like a deliberate disinformation campaign.

I saw an official Jewish organization link to a video from the Francop, claiming it was from the Flotilla, when I challenged it they took it down and apologized -- saying there source had been mistaken about when the video was filmed.

It's embarrassing and counter-productive to the extreme.

36 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:33:24am

Also, I really don't think I could have been any clearer that I do not support Bob Etheridge's physical confrontation with the phony interviewer, but I'm STILL getting hate mail over the story.

37 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:33:51am

re: #26 albusteve

it's too far over the top, and I don't believe he would want people blown to bits...anything is possible tho, but I think it's just a monumentally stupid thing to say...he's an idiot, not a killer

Oh don't worry, Steve, he was just talking about it, not advocating it. You know, just shooting the breeze about putting landmines on the border.

Again, can you explain why you think it was a joke, when he's not saying it was a joke?

38 wrenchwench  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:34:04am

re: #21 jc717

He probably thinks that this is a crazy idea. But, he thinks that enough people in NM feel that this is a good idea, that it's worth bringing up.

What's the solution to an increasingly xenophobic and out of tough electorate?

This guy is an outlier as far as New Mexico goes. Well, him and albusteve. It is not a xenophobic state.

Mullins thought it was worth bringing up before the primary because he was running against a Paulian who is even kookier. He will moderate for the general, and he doesn't have a chance of winning against the incumbent, Ben Lujan. It is possibly a case of teapartiers pushing the Republicans to the right, but I don't know what Mullins was saying before he was a candidate.

39 Mocking Jay  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:34:47am

re: #24 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I was out of commission most of yesterday, hurt my back and was bent over in pain Sunday night and most of Monday.

Are the grasshoppers helping...?

40 wrenchwench  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:35:14am

re: #28 albusteve

I doubt it...leave me out of this, the dope is a renegade...we don't have that kind of problem here

Oops, sorry, I didn't see this.

I was joking, anyway.

41 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:35:16am

#tcot morons are now advocating repealing the 14th amendment.

42 albusteve  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:35:23am

re: #32 Obdicut

A) He doesn't like the Constitution.

B) We don't give citizenship to those who break our laws. The children didn't break our laws.

This guy is incoherent and full of crap.

I don't either...I think it's a mistake and should be changed

43 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:35:59am

I need to close that #tcot window. The steady stream of deranged hateful comments is beyond belief.

44 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:36:00am

re: #42 albusteve


I don't either...I think it's a mistake and should be changed

You think what's a mistake and should be changed, Steve? The 14th amendment?

45 Joo-LiZ  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:36:02am

re: #41 Charles

#tcot morons are now advocating repealing the 14th amendment.

*facepalm*

46 avanti  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:36:20am

If you intend to blow them up for trying to cross the border, why not got one step further and execute them if they are caught after making it./
Maybe wait until they've picked the crops though.
I we sure he really, really, suggested such a dumb ass thing ?re: #27 Charles

I just got yet another email trying to get me to link to a bogus video from 2009, claiming that it shows heavy weapons on the Gaza flotilla.

This is really starting to look like a deliberate disinformation campaign.

Maybe not, they may truly believe it's not fake. I've seen it discussed as a fact on some blogs, ignoring all the evidence to the contray.

47 Kragar  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:36:27am

re: #34 albusteve

sorry...old age is a bitch, you gotta be darn careful with your back

The Marines made sure of I'll always have fun in that regard. I learned 1) Never be the first man down a hasty rappel line and 2) if you're asleep and hit by a van with no driver, the human body can be launched 30ft and not suffer broken bones, though severe bruising and muscle trauma can result.

48 wrenchwench  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:36:45am

re: #41 Charles

#tcot morons are now advocating repealing the 14th amendment.

So they support what, 96% of the Constitution? Is that the new standard?

49 Kragar  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:37:30am

re: #39 JasonA

Are the grasshoppers helping...?

They do.

50 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:37:32am

re: #46 avanti

Maybe not, they may truly believe it's not fake. I've seen it discussed as a fact on some blogs, ignoring all the evidence to the contray.

The video's not really a fake, it's just from a completely different smuggling incident in 2009.

51 ClaudeMonet  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:37:36am

re: #14 Obdicut

And the thing about landmines is how indiscriminate they are.

Get lost in the dark while hiking, accidentally wander near the border = blown up by landmine.

Or a flash flood washes a landmine downstream.

There's a reason we don't just scatter fucking ordinance over the landscape.

ordnance, not ordinance. We're big on the latter, fortunately more discriminate with the former.

Otherwise, spot on. If this guy was a candidate in my district and the district was on the border, I'd drop him from consideration immediately. Either that, or I'd invite him to go walking in a minefield. In the dark. Blindfolded.

52 albusteve  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:37:41am

re: #33 Fozzie Bear

Do you think Harry Reid's opponent is joking in her positions? Do you think the JBS is secretly quite rational, and just want to stir up shit?

For someone who is so quick to attribute Obama's actions to ill will, you sure are willing to give right-wing nutjobs the benefit of the doubt.

where?....show me
I'm considering this one guy and this particular statement...I have never generally given a pass to anybody, left or right

53 Bagua  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:37:48am

Where does he think he can get enough of these to do the whole border?

54 albusteve  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:38:30am

re: #37 Obdicut

Oh don't worry, Steve, he was just talking about it, not advocating it. You know, just shooting the breeze about putting landmines on the border.

Again, can you explain why you think it was a joke, when he's not saying it was a joke?

I already did...there is no more I can say about it

55 Mocking Jay  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:39:05am

re: #53 Bagua

Where does he think he can get enough of these to do the whole border?

You know, when I first saw the title of the post my instinct was to think "Is there gold under there?"

56 albusteve  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:39:24am

re: #44 Obdicut

You think what's a mistake and should be changed, Steve? The 14th amendment?

don't be so obtuse...I don't play that game

57 avanti  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:39:45am

re: #50 Charles

The video's not really a fake, it's just from a completely different smuggling incident in 2009.

Sorry, I knew that, should have been clearer.

58 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:39:54am

re: #53 Bagua

Where does he think he can get enough of these to do the whole border?

Aren't those a serious violation of the Geneva Conventions?

59 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:40:48am

re: #56 albusteve

don't be so obtuse...I don't play that game

I'm not being in the least bit obtuse, Steve. What is it that you want changed?

60 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:41:00am

re: #55 JasonA

You know, when I first saw the title of the post my instinct was to think "Is there gold under there?"

Hahahah yeah that's what I thought at first. I was thinking... ok, what's the big deal... Then I read the link.

61 albusteve  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:42:21am

re: #56 albusteve

don't be so obtuse...I don't play that game

my #42 got fucked up....yes, I'm talking about the 14th...excuse me

62 avanti  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:43:02am

re: #36 Charles

Also, I really don't think I could have been any clearer that I do not support Bob Etheridge's physical confrontation with the phony interviewer, but I'm STILL getting hate mail over the story.

Even Huffington is not cutting the congressman any slack, and he deserves none.

63 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:43:16am

re: #61 albusteve

my #42 got fucked up...yes, I'm talking about the 14th...excuse me

You want the 14th amendment changed.

Sigh.

Why, exactly, Steve?

64 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:43:46am

re: #61 albusteve

my #42 got fucked up...yes, I'm talking about the 14th...excuse me

Dude...

Seriously?

65 Radical Rafe  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:44:33am

re: #41 Charles

Repealing the entire 14th Amendment is overkill. How about seeing if a few updates to Section 1 could be ratified:

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

66 Joo-LiZ  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:45:02am

OT:

Jon Stewart had a clip on Alvin Greene, the winner of the Democratic Senate Candidacy in South Carolina.

Sounds like it is a totally hollywood type of story. =S

67 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:46:46am

re: #65 Radical Rafe

Repealing the entire 14th Amendment is overkill. How about seeing if a few updates to Section 1 could be ratified:

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Sure. You go ahead and try to get those clauses removed. Let me know how much luck you have.

Unbelievable.

68 Mocking Jay  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:48:09am

re: #66 Joo-LiZ

OT:

Jon Stewart had a clip on Alvin Greene, the winner of the Democratic Senate Candidacy in South Carolina.

Sounds like it is a totally hollywood type of story. =S

Blaming Republicans for that clusterfuck is way over the line.

69 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:48:13am

Are people seriously openly discussing amending the constitution over immigration now, as if it weren't deranged, dangerous, and monstrously stupid?

Fucking disgusting. Shining city on a hill my ass.

70 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:48:46am

Well, Rand Paul opened the door, and it's now apparently OK for conservatives to start talking about revoking citizenship rights for children born in the US.

*facepalm*

71 webevintage  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:49:06am

Yesh.
"Not that I think we should do that....I'm just putting it out there...just saying...."
/

A fricking moat with fricking sharks with lasers on their heads....
I'm just saying...

72 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:49:33am

re: #67 Charles

We should probably change the statue of liberty while we're at it.

Give us your poor, your tired, your huddled masses longing to be free..."

"Screw you, kid, I've got mine."

73 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:49:37am

I wouldn't be an American if it weren't for the 14th you fucking pricks.

Seriously, that's beyond the pale.

74 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:50:06am

re: #27 Charles

I just got yet another email trying to get me to link to a bogus video from 2009, claiming that it shows heavy weapons on the Gaza flotilla.

This is really starting to look like a deliberate disinformation campaign.

How heavy were they?
*rimshot*

75 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:50:22am

re: #27 Charles

I just got yet another email trying to get me to link to a bogus video from 2009, claiming that it shows heavy weapons on the Gaza flotilla.

This is really starting to look like a deliberate disinformation campaign.

Are you sure it's bogus? I thought it was real.

76 webevintage  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:50:30am

How's about we just fucking leave the Constitution alone....

77 Joo-LiZ  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:50:52am

re: #66 Joo-LiZ

OT:

Jon Stewart had a clip on Alvin Greene, the winner of the Democratic Senate Candidacy in South Carolina.

Sounds like it is a totally hollywood type of story. =S

Has anyone at LGF looked into Alvin Greene? It's bizzare. He's some random guy out of his father's garage, ex-marine. Just happened to be elected because people didn't want to vote for the incumbent.

When less-than-adroit first-time candidate Alvin Greene won the Democratic Party's nomination for U.S. Senate in South Carolina, I did what a lot of reporters did -- made calls and looked at data to see how the heck it happened. Republicans from Sen. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.) on down denied having anything to do with Greene's campaign. Yet Democrats, led by Rep. James Clyburn (D-S.C), have raised questions about whether Greene was planted by the GOP.

You see what Democrats are doing. It's possible, as happened in Illinois earlier this year, that a party can become saddled with a bad nominee and shame him/her into stepping down. But let's be clear -- the Democratic claim that Greene was planted is based on a lot of vapor and little evidence. Sure, it's possible that South Carolina's warring Republican consultants have taken a blood oath and are revealing nothing about the plan to help Greene get on the ballot. But the best explanation for Greene's win remains the easy one -- Democrats who didn't care about the race marked the first and (marginally) more familiar name on the ballot.

How often does this happen? It happened one month ago in Indiana. Democrats held a low-interest primary for the right to take on Rep. Dan Burton. Everyone in the party backed Nasser Hanna, a professor who raised $110,995 and spent a little less than a third of that. Nobody endorsed Tim Crawford, an unemployed conservative activist who spent no money. Yet Crawford not only won -- he crushed him with 60.9 percent of the vote, a bigger margin than Greene scored in South Carolina. He won every single county.

What happened? Crawford's name was first on the ballot and -- though we're getting into rougher territory -- it resembles those of voters in the district more than "Nasser Hanna." (Hillary Clinton won this district over Barack Obama in the 2008 Democratic primary.)

It's frustrating for party strategists to realize that its electorate is so sleepy, their candidates so disengaged, that stuff like this can happen. But the day after Greene won, before this spinning started, DSCC Chairman Sen. Bob Menendez (D-N.J.) explained that Democrats simply didn't engage in the race. The subsequent charges of GOP trickery don't have a basis in the facts.

78 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:50:55am

re: #50 Charles

The video's not really a fake, it's just from a completely different smuggling incident in 2009.

Ah, ok.

79 Joo-LiZ  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:51:11am

re: #77 Joo-LiZ

Linky

80 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:51:37am

re: #75 Killgore Trout

Are you sure it's bogus? I thought it was real.

I mean "bogus" in the sense that it doesn't show the Gaza flotilla. It's a completely different smuggling incident more than a year ago.

81 lostlakehiker  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:51:55am
From Brownsville in the Atlantic to San Diego in the Pacific an "iron curtain" has descended across the Continent. Behind that line lie all the capitals of the ancient states of Dixie and the Union. Albuquerque, Austin, Phoenix, Denver; all these famous cities and the populations around them lie in what I must call the Republican sphere, and all are subject, in one form or another, not only to Republican influence but to a very high and in some cases increasing measure of control from tea Republican Party.

Mine the border? Can't we just equip it with sensors, put up a fence, patrol it, and deport uninvited new arrivals? I'm all in favor of controlling illegal immigration, but summary execution seems, like, excessive.

82 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:52:39am
83 albusteve  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:52:43am

re: #63 Obdicut

You want the 14th amendment changed.

Sigh.

Why, exactly, Steve?

I think it's a privilege that is too extreme and it bypasses those working hard and waiting for their citizenship...there may be some middle ground, citizenship at 18 if the person does not become a felon...I do not see the logic to it and the law is rife with abuse...just getting here for the anchor...maybe a mother should be here working for a certain time...a year for example

84 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:52:54am

re: #70 Charles

I'll talk about it.

No!

End of talk.

85 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:55:18am

re: #73 Fozzie Bear

I wouldn't be an American if it weren't for the 14th you fucking pricks.
Seriously, that's beyond the pale.

What would you be, if you don't mind me asking?

86 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:55:25am

re: #83 albusteve

So what should we do with the children, Steve? Just deport them to a country they may not be a citizen of?

How does your logic not apply to the children of citizens, too?

maybe a mother should be here working for a certain time...a year for example

Most of them have probably been working here for a lot longer than that, Steve.

What do you want done with the children?

87 wrenchwench  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:55:40am

Hey, maybe Mullins can learn from this. He's a studious guy. Let's look at his reading list:

What Tom is reading now.

I have always enjoyed visiting the public library and have enjoyed reading biographies, historical novels, and science fiction.

I recently finished reading Sarah Palin's: Going Rogue. This gave me some insight into her character and background that never came out during the Presidential campaign. I have to say I am impressed with her humility and her honesty. She was called upon to step forward and she played A team ball with all she had and performed wonderfully. I hope women across New Mexico, especially my daughters, become inspired to serve their community and their country. Every generation is tested in some manner. Our generation is being tested by the growth of Leviathan into every aspect of our lives. When we are tested, we must take a deep breath, pray for strength, and redouble our efforts to improve our great nation.

Take some time daily to turn off the television, computer, and the radio. Reflect upon the amazing Christmas season and give thanks.

I am currently reading The Closing of the American Mind by Allan Bloom, The 5000 Year Leap by Skousen, The Chronicles of Narnia: The Silver Chair, and What You Should Know About Inflation by Hazlitt.

Read to your children and grandchildren. God Bless you.

OK, maybe not.

88 Mocking Jay  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:56:14am

re: #86 Obdicut

What do you want done with the children?

He doesn't give a shit about the children. He's made that perfectly fucking clear.

89 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:56:15am

re: #65 Radical Rafe

Repealing the entire 14th Amendment is overkill. How about seeing if a few updates to Section 1 could be ratified:

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

It's too early in the morning for this shit.

When it's afternoon, it will be too early in the afternoon.

I'm getting some more coffee.

90 webevintage  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:56:23am

re: #36 Charles

Also, I really don't think I could have been any clearer that I do not support Bob Etheridge's physical confrontation with the phony interviewer, but I'm STILL getting hate mail over the story.

I'm amazed that anyone even cares that much about the incident to generate hate mail over it.
Seriously, people need to get better hobbies or worry about more important things like your feelings regarding a moat at the border filled with man eating catfish.

91 albusteve  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:57:21am

re: #86 Obdicut

So what should we do with the children, Steve? Just deport them to a country they may not be a citizen of?

How does your logic not apply to the children of citizens, too?

Most of them have probably been working here for a lot longer than that, Steve.

What do you want done with the children?

don't know, I'm a moron remember...and a prick too
I would not want to see the children deported

92 Renaissance_Man  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:57:23am

re: #85 Spare O'Lake

What would you be, if you don't mind me asking?

He may well be nothing, because citizenship in many countries is not automatic to those born outside that country.

93 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:57:24am

re: #66 Joo-LiZ

OT:

Jon Stewart had a clip on Alvin Greene, the winner of the Democratic Senate Candidacy in South Carolina.

Sounds like it is a totally hollywood type of story. =S

There's something about politics in South Carolina that seems to inspire all kinds of weirdness. I'm not sure if it's the water supply, or what.

94 Varek Raith  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:57:39am

Good grief... Mine the border???
Wow.

As to the 14th Amendment... It ain't going anywhere. Deal with it.

95 albusteve  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:57:59am

re: #88 JasonA

He doesn't give a shit about the children. He's made that perfectly fucking clear.

bullshit

96 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:58:53am

re: #81 lostlakehiker

Mine the border? Can't we just equip it with sensors, put up a fence, patrol it, and deport uninvited new arrivals? I'm all in favor of controlling illegal immigration, but summary execution seems, like, excessive.

"Well, what part of the word 'illegal' don't you understand?"

/////

97 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:59:07am

re: #83 albusteve

I think it's a privilege that is too extreme and it bypasses those working hard and waiting for their citizenship...there may be some middle ground, citizenship at 18 if the person does not become a felon...I do not see the logic to it and the law is rife with abuse...just getting here for the anchor...maybe a mother should be here working for a certain time...a year for example

My grandfather fled the troubles in Ireland. My father's parents fled the Holocaust in Europe. My wife's grandparents fled poverty in the Americas. Neither of us would be here if it weren't for the compassion of a nation that saw the abandoned and huddled masses of the world as the next generation of people equally deserving of basic human rights and liberties as anyone.

We are all immigrants here. How quickly we forget. It is all I can do to not flip the fuck out on this topic.

98 Mocking Jay  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:59:21am

re: #95 albusteve

bullshit

Okay. I'll just be quiet and let you make even more of an ass of yourself. Go ahead. The floor is yours.

99 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:59:41am

re: #85 Spare O'Lake

What would you be, if you don't mind me asking?

Either dead (German) or running from Irish terrorists. I probably wouldn't exist.

100 Batman  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:01:05am

We're concerned that Iran might possibly be within ten years of getting the bomb, but apparently mexicans can pick one up at any mexican hardware store.

101 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:01:08am

Taking a break from LGF. I am so angry I am shaking. I can't believe this is even up for discussion.

102 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:01:30am

re: #91 albusteve

don't know, I'm a moron remember...and a prick too
I would not want to see the children deported

Then what the fuck do you want done with them, Steve? State-run orphanages until they're 18, whereby we determine whether they can be citizens?

What problem are you actually attempting to solve, and why is stripping citizenship from children the way to go about it?

103 albusteve  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:02:35am

re: #98 JasonA

Okay. I'll just be quiet and let you make even more of an ass of yourself. Go ahead. The floor is yours.

I have reservations about the law...those do not include any hardships, deportation and the like...so I'm a moron, a prick and an ass for my honest opinion...I don't think I need to discuss the subject further

104 Slap  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:02:49am

re: #93 SanFranciscoZionist

Unfortunately, they kind of have a tradition there, going back to the mid-19th century. Something about a fort, if I recall....

105 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:03:28am

re: #103 albusteve

I have reservations about the law...those do not include any hardships, deportation and the like...so I'm a moron, a prick and an ass for my honest opinion...I don't think I need to discuss the subject further

How on earth do you believe that's true, Steve?

106 kreyagg  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:03:45am

Why does everyone seem to look at the Immigrants as the problem with illegal immigration? Why don't the suggested solutions ever include really (cripplingly) punishing the businesses that hire them?

Why not auction off all of the assets of a company found guilty of illegally hiring non-documented individuals?

107 McSpiff  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:03:47am

re: #103 albusteve

I have reservations about the law...those do not include any hardships, deportation and the like...so I'm a moron, a prick and an ass for my honest opinion...I don't think I need to discuss the subject further

Don't flatter yourself by calling that mental sludge an "honest opinion".

108 webevintage  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:03:55am

Here's an outrage.

I went to the dealership today to have the clockspring in my van replaced because it is part of a recall. The airbag light stays on, horn does not work and cruise control is broke.
I have put this off for years people.
Years.
Why? Because I hate going to the dealership to get anything done, that's why.
But my son is finally ready to take his driver's test and the police like your horn to be working.
I called last night, got an appointment, was assured the part was there.
I go in at my scheduled time, inform them of the part that needs to be replaced, sit for about an hour and a half until some poor guy has to come out and tell me that the part they had was already used earlier in the day and that they had to order another one and it would be there in the AM.

Bastards.

109 Mocking Jay  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:04:04am

re: #103 albusteve

so I'm a moron, a prick and an ass for my honest opinion...

Good. You're learning...

110 albusteve  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:04:21am

re: #102 Obdicut

Then what the fuck do you want done with them, Steve? State-run orphanages until they're 18, whereby we determine whether they can be citizens?

What problem are you actually attempting to solve, and why is stripping citizenship from children the way to go about it?

I never suggested stripping any citizenship...I'm not some beast and your method of putting words in my mouth fail every time...I stated my case, there is no more to it...I'm done with the namecalling

111 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:04:27am

re: #97 Fozzie Bear

My grandfather fled the troubles in Ireland. My father's parents fled the Holocaust in Europe. My wife's grandparents fled poverty in the Americas. Neither of us would be here if it weren't for the compassion of a nation that saw the abandoned and huddled masses of the world as the next generation of people equally deserving of basic human rights and liberties as anyone.

We are all immigrants here. How quickly we forget. It is all I can do to not flip the fuck out on this topic.

Ditto. My great-grands arrived at a time when the Irish and the Jews were admitted as workforce, but largely believed to be unassimilable. There were voices aplenty who said they would never be real Americans, and would gladly have denied them the rights of citizenship.

Fuck that.

112 Kragar  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:05:20am

Oh boy, get ready for the media rollercoaster folks. Drudge and Star magazine are reporting info that Gore had an affair.

113 abolitionist  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:05:23am

re: #100 nonsense

We're concerned that Iran might possibly be within ten years of getting the bomb, but apparently mexicans can pick one up at any mexican hardware store.

We (USA) were less than 5 years from the Alamogordo Test when Roosevelt got that letter from Dr. Einstein.

114 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:05:44am

re: #100 nonsense

We're concerned that Iran might possibly be within ten years of getting the bomb, but apparently mexicans can pick one up at any mexican hardware store.

I'm OK with that, really. Ahmedinejad vs. Sr. Mendoza? I'd rather Mendoza have it, any day.

115 albusteve  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:06:18am

re: #109 JasonA

Good. You're learning...

you're not

116 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:06:37am

re: #96 SanFranciscoZionist

"Well, what part of the word 'illegal' don't you understand?"

///

I think the next step is that all cross-walks should have mines implanted in them that are sensitive only to lighter weights (peds) and are only active when the "DO NOT WALK" sign is solid red.

We'd clear up that *illegal* jay-walker issue quickly if we were only willing to take draconian stringent enough steps.

///^500

Wasn't there a Larry Niven story (ARM series I think) where it had gotten to the point that jaywalkers were being convicted to dismemberment as a way to supply surplus organs for transplant?

117 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:07:00am

re: #110 albusteve

I never suggested stripping any citizenship...I'm not some beast and your method of putting words in my mouth fail every time...I stated my case, there is no more to it...I'm done with the namecalling

The fourteenth amendment grants citizenship to children born here. You would strip them of that right.

Why is removing that right from children a good thing to do, Steve? What problem are you trying to solve and why would that help?

You've called yourself plenty of names. I haven't called you any.

118 webevintage  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:07:03am

re: #102 Obdicut

Then what the fuck do you want done with them, Steve? State-run orphanages until they're 18, whereby we determine whether they can be citizens?

Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?
/

119 Nimed  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:07:07am

re: #103 albusteve

I have reservations about the law...those do not include any hardships, deportation and the like...so I'm a moron, a prick and an ass for my honest opinion...I don't think I need to discuss the subject further

Dude, unpopular opinions get downdings and harsh responses. It's unusual for you to whine about it.

120 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:07:33am

re: #112 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Oh boy, get ready for the media rollercoaster folks. Drudge and Star magazine are reporting info that Gore had an affair.

Watch the global warming deniers freak out over this one. They'll be unable to resist trying to tie it to the climate change issue, which will lead to some incredibly comical craziness.

121 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:07:33am

re: #99 Fozzie Bear

Either dead (German) or running from Irish terrorists. I probably wouldn't exist.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but during and after WWII I think the refugees came to the US legally, as refugees or displaced persons. Also, I am not aware that illegal immigration was a problem back then.
What needs to happen is for the Feds to patrol and enforce the US borders so that these extremists in AZ, NM and elsewhere would be denied a platform for their revolting solutions.

122 Boogberg  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:08:37am

re: #108 webevintage

Oh hell no. I would be livid.

123 Slap  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:08:43am

re: #112 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Oh boy, get ready for the media rollercoaster folks. Drudge and Star magazine are reporting info that Gore had an affair.

Should we hope for or against the idea that her name would be Ruth?

124 Slap  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:09:03am

re: #123 Slap

'Cuz, you know, that would be incovenient.

125 McSpiff  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:09:14am

re: #121 Spare O'Lake

Correct me if I'm wrong, but during and after WWII I think the refugees came to the US legally, as refugees or displaced persons. Also, I am not aware that illegal immigration was a problem back then.
What needs to happen is for the Feds to patrol and enforce the US borders so that these extremists in AZ, NM and elsewhere would be denied a platform for their revolting solutions.

For the record, I don't think its unreasonable to want the boarder enforced for its own sake, not to simply appease some nutjobs. I realize you agree with this Spare (I like to think so anyways) but your post can read differently.

126 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:10:05am

re: #106 kreyagg

Why does everyone seem to look at the Immigrants as the problem with illegal immigration? Why don't the suggested solutions ever include really (cripplingly) punishing the businesses that hire them?

Why not auction off all of the assets of a company found guilty of illegally hiring non-documented individuals?

Well, one reason is because such measures would probably destroy the economies of several states.

127 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:10:27am

re: #111 SanFranciscoZionist

Same here. My Jewish greatgrandparents on two sides lied about their country of origin post 1924 to get in, and didn't bother mentioning the whole 'Jew' part, either.

128 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:11:02am

re: #121 Spare O'Lake

Correct me if I'm wrong, but during and after WWII I think the refugees came to the US legally, as refugees or displaced persons. Also, I am not aware that illegal immigration was a problem back then.
What needs to happen is for the Feds to patrol and enforce the US borders so that these extremists in AZ, NM and elsewhere would be denied a platform for their revolting solutions.

You are, as usual on US history, totally wrong.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

129 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:11:28am

re: #112 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Oh boy, get ready for the media rollercoaster folks. Drudge and Star magazine are reporting info that Gore had an affair.

Oh, fer gawd's sake!

I liked Gore just fine as a private citizen, and honestly, I liked Tipper and I hated to see that they were splitting up.

We don't need any scummy news about Gore; leave 'em be. Good grief.

130 albusteve  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:11:40am

re: #119 Nimed

Dude, unpopular opinions get downdings and harsh responses. It's unusual for you to whine about it.

I could care less about that

131 Boogberg  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:12:01am

re: #126 Charles

If I gotta pick lettuce, the price is going WAY up.

132 McSpiff  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:12:20am

re: #130 albusteve

I could care less about that

So stop whining. Its embarrassing.

133 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:12:21am

re: #129 reine.de.tout

I wish both the government and the media would stay the hell out of people's pants and bedrooms.

134 Kragar  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:12:24am

re: #108 webevintage

Here's an outrage.

I went to the dealership today to have the clockspring in my van replaced because it is part of a recall. The airbag light stays on, horn does not work and cruise control is broke.
I have put this off for years people.
Years.
Why? Because I hate going to the dealership to get anything done, that's why.
But my son is finally ready to take his driver's test and the police like your horn to be working.
I called last night, got an appointment, was assured the part was there.
I go in at my scheduled time, inform them of the part that needs to be replaced, sit for about an hour and a half until some poor guy has to come out and tell me that the part they had was already used earlier in the day and that they had to order another one and it would be there in the AM.

Bastards.

They better damn well give you a discount.

135 Nimed  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:12:30am

re: #120 Charles

Watch the global warming deniers freak out over this one. They'll be unable to resist trying to tie it to the climate change issue, which will lead to some incredibly comical craziness.

And lots of puns about Gore's torrid affair, hurhurhur.

136 avanti  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:13:06am

Crazy Pam's new book gets a great review from a familiar name:

"“This book is a chilling analysis of how the policy of President Barack Obama is chipping away at the very foundation of America's leading role in the world. It exposes his philosophy of near universal 'moral equivalency': a philosophy that is a dead ringer for the cultural relativism that has been poisoning Europe for the past decades. America is the last man standing and it is vital that the people of Europe adopt the attitude of proud American citizens and learn that it is not shameful to be proud of one's heritage. This book is incredibly fascinating and at the same time holds a deeply disturbing message we should all take to heart.”

--Geert Wilders, Dutch MP

137 kreyagg  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:13:39am

re: #126 Charles

So it's ok to profit and support our economy allowing the exploitation of the brown people?
Heaven forbid American citizens have to pick cabbage and work in restaurants, think of all the labor laws that would have to be enforced!

138 webevintage  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:13:46am

re: #122 Boogberg

Oh hell no. I would be livid.

I was.
I am.
My husband gets to go sit on Friday morning.
I'm not doing that again.
Ever.

(but they do have a really huge, comfy waiting area with snacks and free coffee. The World Cup was on the big screens and I had my iPod with me so it really was not the purgatory it could have been. No wifi though....)

139 AK-47%  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:13:50am

Not only is Mullins a real wingnut, but he has never read the Army tactical manual: "Minefields and other obstacles not covered by fields of fire are only a temprary hindrance to a determined enemy".

The argument being brought up regarding the 14th amendment is that our Founding Fathers did not have the concept of "illegal" or "undocumented" immigration: nobody was "documented" in any sense and anybody who showed up here and could make a living was accepted.

And I do have to ask (at the risk of sounding like I am favor of changing the regulations, which I am not) , how many other nations allow citizenship to the children of undocumented immigrants? Germany recently changed its law, but it grants citizenship only to children born here to legal resident aliens.

If we are to even begin to address this issue, it would have to be as part of a comprehensive - and effective - package of immigration legislation reform.

140 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:13:50am

re: #123 Slap

Should we hope for or against the idea that her name would be Ruth?

or Monica?

141 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:13:54am

re: #126 Charles

Well, one reason is because such measures would probably destroy the economies of several states.

And perhaps the political careers of some politicians in those states.

This issue can be solved, without massive deportations. I am convinced the government of the United States of America has the ability, knowledge, know-how and just the general smarts to figure out how to keep track of who is or is not in this country, and to make sure folks here have some sort of status as guest worker, citizen, or whatever.

Our politicians have no will to solve it.
Just my .02.

142 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:14:11am
143 Kragar  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:14:34am

re: #129 reine.de.tout

Oh, fer gawd's sake!

I liked Gore just fine as a private citizen, and honestly, I liked Tipper and I hated to see that they were splitting up.

We don't need any scummy news about Gore; leave 'em be. Good grief.

I think what goes on between private citizens should remain between private citizens. Our news media doesn't work that way though.

144 Boogberg  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:14:54am

re: #137 kreyagg

Uh oh.

145 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:15:06am

re: #121 Spare O'Lake

Correct me if I'm wrong, but during and after WWII I think the refugees came to the US legally, as refugees or displaced persons.

Some never made it, having been turned back to Europe as illegal immigrants.

And 'illegal immigration' has been an issue for decades, including before during and after the Second World War. See, Operation Wetback.

146 webevintage  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:15:17am

re: #134 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

They better damn well give you a discount.

Free. It is part of a recall and it is free even though I've got like 120,000 miles on the van.

147 Varek Raith  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:15:32am

re: #137 kreyagg

Reading comprehension is your friend.

148 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:16:01am

re: #131 Boogberg

If I gotta pick lettuce, the price is going WAY up.

Better believe it.

149 Firstinla  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:16:04am

I can go along with putting land mines along the border but only if there will be herds of unicorns to welcome those that make it through to safety.

150 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:16:04am

re: #128 Obdicut

You are, as usual on US history, totally wrong.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Very few if any Jews sneaked in illegally during and after WWII, my pedantic friend. Can you explain precisely how you wiki link speaks to my observation?

151 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:16:22am

re: #137 kreyagg

So it's ok to profit and support our economy allowing the exploitation of the brown people?
Heaven forbid American citizens have to pick cabbage and work in restaurants, think of all the labor laws that would have to be enforced!

Well, of course, I didn't say that. Just pointing out a reality that has to be dealt with.

152 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:17:06am
153 Boogberg  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:17:09am

re: #138 webevintage

That's right! iPods pick up signals. :D

154 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:17:13am

re: #126 Charles

Well, one reason is because such measures would probably destroy the economies of several states.

It is my opinion that if parts of our economy depend upon the exploitation of immigrants, illegal or otherwise, then we are simply paying too little for our veggies.

We don't deserve to live better on the backs of the less fortunate. We just do, because we can. If doing the right thing means living less luxurious, more expensive lives, so be it. It is the right thing to do.

155 Slap  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:17:13am

re: #140 Mad Al-Jaffee

or Monica?

Unfortunately, "An Inconvenient Monica" just doesn't bring the same funny.

156 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:17:37am
157 researchok  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:17:47am

re: #141 reine.de.tout

And perhaps the political careers of some politicians in those states.

This issue can be solved, without massive deportations. I am convinced the government of the United States of America has the ability, knowledge, know-how and just the general smarts to figure out how to keep track of who is or is not in this country, and to make sure folks here have some sort of status as guest worker, citizen, or whatever.

Our politicians have no will to solve it.
Just my .02.

The politicians have no incentive to solve illegal immigration.

People will vote for whomever gives them more bang for the buck, whether it is reflected in food prices or housing prices. Here in NC you get 15-20% more house because of illegal workers.

15-20% is a lot of money. People are for reform as ling as it doesn't impact them in the pocketbook.

158 Kragar  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:17:48am

re: #146 webevintage

Free. It is part of a recall and it is free even though I've got like 120,000 miles on the van.

I thought you needed to get some other work done as well.

159 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:18:07am

re: #133 Obdicut

I wish both the government and the media would stay the hell out of people's pants and bedrooms.

Well, I'm going to disagree on one thing:

When a politician is running for office and is LYING by presenting to the world a united front with his spouse, as if everything is just fine and they have the most wonderful marriage in the world - I think the media does need to be involved.

John Edwards has proven himself to be completely unfit for public office, IMO, with the situation he was in, and most upsetting to me, his denying his own child. I found that completely disgusting.

And Gov Sandford's escapades - that affair did harm his ability to serve as governor - he was leaving his state, heck, leaving the country to meet up with the mistress, no one knowing where he was, how to contact him in the event of an emergency - another one unfit for public office, IMO.

160 wrenchwench  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:18:09am

re: #136 avanti

Also, nice reviews from David Horowitz, Mark Steyn, Caroline Glick, and Andrew C. McCarthy, with a forward from John Bolton.

They all go in the "nut" pile now.

161 McSpiff  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:18:21am

Whoops, quoted a deleted. Reported myself.

162 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:18:26am

re: #111 SanFranciscoZionist

Ditto. My great-grands arrived at a time when the Irish and the Jews were admitted as workforce, but largely believed to be unassimilable. There were voices aplenty who said they would never be real Americans, and would gladly have denied them the rights of citizenship.

Fuck that.

What about during and after WWII? Were the Jews who got into the USA not admitted legally as refugees or DP's?

163 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:18:27am

re: #150 Spare O'Lake

Very few if any Jews sneaked in illegally during and after WWII, my pedantic friend. Can you explain precisely how you wiki link speaks to my observation?

Your observation was:

during and after WWII I think the refugees came to the US legally, as refugees or displaced persons. Also, I am not aware that illegal immigration was a problem back then.

You couldn't be more wrong. I don't know what else to say. Jewish refugees were turned away, often sent back to Germany (or Spain, or their other countries of origin).

And the immigration act was a criminalization of a lot of immigrants. It was certainly seen as a big problem. I don't know how you can't understand that.

When you say 'correct me when I'm wrong', and then are corrected, you really shouldn't complain about it.

164 Slap  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:18:34am

re: #149 Firstinla

I can go along with putting land mines along the border but only if there will be herds of unicorns to welcome those that make it through to safety.

Geez, for a minute there, I thought you said "land mimes".

I was about to agree that a bunch of buried mimes is a good start....

165 Racer X  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:19:04am

Mines are a bad idea.

I prefer automated Lasers. That sting. Really bad. Like the ones in Andromeda Strain.

/yes I'm kidding.

166 albusteve  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:19:18am

re: #156 avanti

So everyone that disagree with you from Obama to some of your fellow fellow Lizards is a moron ?

read the thread....those are names people called me

167 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:20:35am

re: #150 Spare O'Lake

Very few if any Jews sneaked in illegally during and after WWII, my pedantic friend. Can you explain precisely how you wiki link speaks to my observation?

My maternal and paternal grandparents were here illegally at first, and were granted citizenship on the basis of two things: military service, and the fact that they had children here. I don't know the precise nature of the laws that allowed for this. Perhaps someone else could spell that out.

I do know that my parents could never have met, and thus, I could not exist if it weren't for policies that placed compassion above narrow economic interest.

168 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:20:39am

re: #159 reine.de.tout

I really honestly don't. I wish whether or not they were married wasn't even an issue. I know so many good people in incredibly fucked up marital situations.


And Gov Sandford's escapades - that affair did harm his ability to serve as governor - he was leaving his state, heck, leaving the country to meet up with the mistress, no one knowing where he was, how to contact him in the event of an emergency - another one unfit for public office, IMO.

Sure, I do thin it's relevant in the case where you're doing crap like that, or the guy in Boston who made a road one-way so he could get to his mistress quicker. But if it's just affairs, homosexuality, and kinky sex, I really don't think it's important for governance, at all.

Many people with personal failings are and were great public servants.

169 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:21:00am

re: #154 Fozzie Bear

It is my opinion that if parts of our economy depend upon the exploitation of immigrants, illegal or otherwise, then we are simply paying too little for our veggies.

We don't deserve to live better on the backs of the less fortunate. We just do, because we can. If doing the right thing means living less luxurious, more expensive lives, so be it. It is the right thing to do.

Absolutely correct. After a period of price and production adjustments the economies of the affected States would probably do just fine with a legalized work force.

170 Nimed  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:21:47am

re: #160 wrenchwench

Also, nice reviews from David Horowitz, Mark Steyn, Caroline Glick, and Andrew C. McCarthy, with a forward from John Bolton.

They all go in the "nut" pile now.

Sorry I have to ask this -- did all those people really give a positive review to the book or are you being facetious?

171 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:21:49am

re: #162 Spare O'Lake

What about during and after WWII? Were the Jews who got into the USA not admitted legally as refugees or DP's?

To the U.S., as far as I know. Those who survived the war, anyway, and did not die in the camps because immigration to the U.S. was not available to them before.

Of course, Britain was dealing at the same time with a pesky problem of illegal Jewish immigration into Palestine. Very frustrating, they found it.

What do you think they should have done about that?

172 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:21:56am

re: #111 SanFranciscoZionist

Ditto. My great-grands arrived at a time when the Irish and the Jews were admitted as workforce, but largely believed to be unassimilable. There were voices aplenty who said they would never be real Americans, and would gladly have denied them the rights of citizenship.

Fuck that.

My Irish & German ancestors arrived under similar circumstances. And recently enough it feels weird calling them "ancestors" (great-grandparents and great-great-grandparents).

173 Soap_Man  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:22:47am

re: #159 reine.de.tout

Well, I'm going to disagree on one thing:

When a politician is running for office and is LYING by presenting to the world a united front with his spouse, as if everything is just fine and they have the most wonderful marriage in the world - I think the media does need to be involved.

John Edwards has proven himself to be completely unfit for public office, IMO, with the situation he was in, and most upsetting to me, his denying his own child. I found that completely disgusting.

And Gov Sandford's escapades - that affair did harm his ability to serve as governor - he was leaving his state, heck, leaving the country to meet up with the mistress, no one knowing where he was, how to contact him in the event of an emergency - another one unfit for public office, IMO.

I follow a pretty simple rule on this one. If a pol parades his or her family around as evidence of his "family values" and whatnot, then any extramarital stuff is fair game.

If a pol has never used his family as some kind of PR tool, then I don't give a shit who they sleep with. If they never play themselves up as Mr./Mrs. Family Values, then why should I care if they aren't?

174 researchok  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:24:12am

re: #173 Soap_Man

I follow a pretty simple rule on this one. If a pol parades his or her family around as evidence of his "family values" and whatnot, then any extramarital stuff is fair game.

If a pol has never used his family as some kind of PR tool, then I don't give a shit who they sleep with. If they never play themselves up as Mr./Mrs. Family Values, then why should I care if they aren't?

What does family have to do with it?

How about the pols who insist they are more moral or are 'better people'?

Hypocrisy is is wide highway.

175 kreyagg  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:24:44am

re: #151 Charles

My point really is that the immigrants are not the problem. Really we're getting some of the most ambitious and hard working people from all over Central and South America.

176 lostlakehiker  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:24:48am

re: #116 oaktree

I think the next step is that all cross-walks should have mines implanted in them that are sensitive only to lighter weights (peds) and are only active when the "DO NOT WALK" sign is solid red.

We'd clear up that *illegal* jay-walker issue quickly if we were only willing to take draconian stringent enough steps.

///^500

Wasn't there a Larry Niven story (ARM series I think) where it had gotten to the point that jaywalkers were being convicted to dismemberment as a way to supply surplus organs for transplant?

Yes, there was. Gee, why didn't I think of that. Blowing people up is so wasteful, when you could instead run a sort of chop shop. It'd be like enslaving them, only part by part instead of as an intact package.

/mengele

177 Racer X  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:25:16am

Those 'less fortunate' brown people are often treated a thousand times better here, as illegals, then they are back in their home country.

Shouldn't we put pressure on those governments to treat their own people better?

178 webevintage  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:25:53am

re: #168 Obdicut

Sure, I do thin it's relevant in the case where you're doing crap like that, or the guy in Boston who made a road one-way so he could get to his mistress quicker. But if it's just affairs, homosexuality, and kinky sex, I really don't think it's important for governance, at all.

Of course if it effects doing your job like Sanford or compells you to use campagin money like Edwards and Ensign did then yeah I got issues with that.
And I know it is wrong but a get such a feeling of, what's that German word?, when a Focus on the Family pol gets caught with a mistress or better yet a dude.

Great leaders can be not so great humans.

179 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:25:55am

re: #168 Obdicut

I really honestly don't. I wish whether or not they were married wasn't even an issue. I know so many good people in incredibly fucked up marital situations.

Sure, I do thin it's relevant in the case where you're doing crap like that, or the guy in Boston who made a road one-way so he could get to his mistress quicker. But if it's just affairs, homosexuality, and kinky sex, I really don't think it's important for governance, at all.

Many people with personal failings are and were great public servants.

I can agree that many with personal failings were (and are) great public servants.

It's those who are engaged in the CRAP - leaving their post unmanned to meet with the mistress, and you didn't mention it, but Edwards' long ongoing denial of his own child, rather than having the guts and the manhood to own up to this daughter, I find to be just disgusting, and for me, a person who cares so little about the blameless, innocent life he created, was a clear sign that the he is not fit for public office.

180 McSpiff  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:26:21am

re: #177 Racer X

Those 'less fortunate' brown people are often treated a thousand times better here, as illegals, then they are back in their home country.

Shouldn't we put pressure on those governments to treat their own people better?

How far can that go though, honestly?

181 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:26:36am

re: #171 SanFranciscoZionist

Not until 1948 did they change the immigration policies and allow Jewish refugees in-- I believe just as a subset of a general change in immigration policies caused by the post-war boom.

182 albusteve  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:27:06am

re: #177 Racer X

Those 'less fortunate' brown people are often treated a thousand times better here, as illegals, then they are back in their home country.

Shouldn't we put pressure on those governments to treat their own people better?

not politically wise to get into a human rights issue with Mexico, even tho the abuse is rampant there...we have an symbiotic relationship

183 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:28:06am

re: #173 Soap_Man

I follow a pretty simple rule on this one. If a pol parades his or her family around as evidence of his "family values" and whatnot, then any extramarital stuff is fair game.

If a pol has never used his family as some kind of PR tool, then I don't give a shit who they sleep with. If they never play themselves up as Mr./Mrs. Family Values, then why should I care if they aren't?

Well, I disagree.
That would include Republicans and exclude many Democrats, it seems to me.

They all use their families as a PR "tool", John Edwards included.

And whether he promoted "family values" or not, the fact that he preferred to deny his own child her rightful place in his life - what a disgusting POS.
Just my opinion.

184 ReamWorks SKG  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:28:20am

"We could put up signs in 23 different languages if necessary,”

I wonder if he plans to include SPANISH?

(And, for the record, I think this is a TERRIBLE idea.)

185 albusteve  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:28:46am

re: #180 McSpiff

How far can that go though, honestly?

no where...Mexico has to clean up it's act on it's own...fat chance, which is why the US must get it's immigration policy act together soon

186 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:29:29am

re: #177 Racer X

Those 'less fortunate' brown people are often treated a thousand times better here, as illegals, then they are back in their home country.

Shouldn't we put pressure on those governments to treat their own people better?

Yes. We should definitely do that, but a lot of US corporations, which benefit from the poor working conditions abroad, oppose doing anything of the sort. Catch-22.

187 Racer X  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:30:11am

re: #180 McSpiff

How far can that go though, honestly?

Don't they owe it to their own people? How far should America go?

188 McSpiff  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:30:47am

re: #185 albusteve

no where...Mexico has to clean up it's act on it's own...fat chance, which is why the US must get it's immigration policy act together soon

Exactly. Although I wouldn't mind seeing boarder controls tied into NAFTA, and halt some of the flow from below Mexico. Every bit helps.

189 researchok  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:31:15am

re: #178 webevintage

Of course if it effects doing your job like Sanford or compells you to use campagin money like Edwards and Ensign did then yeah I got issues with that.
And I know it is wrong but a get such a feeling of, what's that German word?, when a Focus on the Family pol gets caught with a mistress or better yet a dude.

Great leaders can be not so great humans.

I look at Ellit Spitzer and have the same feeling of revulsion.

He was supposed to be 'Mr Morality.'

Hypocrisy is not measured by what you are hypocritical about. It is measured by the level and degree of hypocrisy.

190 lostlakehiker  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:31:27am

re: #139 ralphieboy

Not only is Mullins a real wingnut, but he has never read the Army tactical manual: "Minefields and other obstacles not covered by fields of fire are only a temprary hindrance to a determined enemy".

The argument being brought up regarding the 14th amendment is that our Founding Fathers did not have the concept of "illegal" or "undocumented" immigration: nobody was "documented" in any sense and anybody who showed up here and could make a living was accepted.

And I do have to ask (at the risk of sounding like I am favor of changing the regulations, which I am not) , how many other nations allow citizenship to the children of undocumented immigrants? Germany recently changed its law, but it grants citizenship only to children born here to legal resident aliens.

If we are to even begin to address this issue, it would have to be as part of a comprehensive - and effective - package of immigration legislation reform.

The thing I like about the current law is that it's clean cut and simple. It also makes it impossible for the U.S. to ever develop a citizen/helot dichotomy in which we have a permanent, hereditary non- citizen class.

But you're right, almost every other country has much tighter immigration laws. And we don't much mind. We don't actually think it immoral for other nations to draw a line between "us" and "them". We don't curse Japan for its unwillingness to accept immigrants. Mexico gets a pass on its cruel treatment of Guatemalans who break Mexican law to seek their fortune in Mexico. And so forth.

191 McSpiff  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:33:03am

re: #187 Racer X

Don't they owe it to their own people? How far should America go?

Not to go too realpolitik, but it depends. In some cases, yeah it would be in the ruling power's best interest to improve the living situation and keep people at home. In some cases, they're probably making more dough off the smaller populations and the remittances send home. But in general, immigration will need to be looked at as a domestic problem with domestic solutions if its to have any real impact.

192 AK-47%  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:33:48am

Done looked it up, the 14th Amendment (the first to be ratified after the 13th, abolishing slavery) was an act to take immigration out of the hands of individual states and make it a federal responsibility, as the Supreme Court ruled in 1875

Which indicates that our Founding Fathers did not give much thought to concepts like registration, inspection, naturalization and/or documentation: if you were willing to risk the hazards of a ship voyage to the New World, you were given a chance to make a living.

193 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:41:20am

re: #163 Obdicut

You couldn't be more wrong. I don't know what else to say. Jewish refugees were turned away, often sent back to Germany (or Spain, or their other countries of origin).

And the immigration act was a criminalization of a lot of immigrants. It was certainly seen as a big problem. I don't know how you can't understand that.

When you say 'correct me when I'm wrong', and then are corrected, you really shouldn't complain about it.

Yes, many were turned away...the contrary was never advocated by me. Please try to read a little more carefully and fairly.
My point was, and remains, and I assume you agree, that the vast majority of the Jews who got into the country during and after WWII got in legally as refugees or DPs.
BTW Canada had an absolutely dismal record of excluding Jews during and even after the war.

194 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:45:52am

re: #171 SanFranciscoZionist

To the U.S., as far as I know. Those who survived the war, anyway, and did not die in the camps because immigration to the U.S. was not available to them before.

Of course, Britain was dealing at the same time with a pesky problem of illegal Jewish immigration into Palestine. Very frustrating, they found it.

What do you think they should have done about that?

Fuck the Brits...they got theirs, the bastards.

195 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:47:00am

re: #193 Spare O'Lake

My point was, and remains, and I assume you agree, that the vast majority of the Jews who got into the country during and after WWII got in legally as refugees or DPs.

I don't agree, no. I don't think there are sufficient records to make any sort of argument about that. Can you make that case-- and what is the point of your point?

Your point about illegal immigration not being considered a problem at that time was also completely wrong-- as you can easily see by the boatloads of Jews being turned away. If you know that, how can you have simultaneously asserted that illegal immigration wasn't viewed as a problem?

196 wrenchwench  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:50:29am

re: #170 Nimed

Sorry I have to ask this -- did all those people really give a positive review to the book or are you being facetious?

Sorry, I forgot the link.

Dead serious.

The book comes out next month.

197 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:51:15am

re: #193 Spare O'Lake

Yes, many were turned away...the contrary was never advocated by me. Please try to read a little more carefully and fairly.
My point was, and remains, and I assume you agree, that the vast majority of the Jews who got into the country during and after WWII got in legally as refugees or DPs.
BTW Canada had an absolutely dismal record of excluding Jews during and even after the war.

I get that.

But it's irrelevent.

Sure, they got in legally, those who could get in.

If the others had been able to figure out a way to get in illegally, I assume they would have done it, as they did in British Palestine.

Not sure what the point is, here.

198 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:52:10am

re: #195 Obdicut

I don't agree, no. I don't think there are sufficient records to make any sort of argument about that. Can you make that case-- and what is the point of your point?

Your point about illegal immigration not being considered a problem at that time was also completely wrong-- as you can easily see by the boatloads of Jews being turned away. If you know that, how can you have simultaneously asserted that illegal immigration wasn't viewed as a problem?

Not to mention that illegal immigration over the Mexican border absolutely WAS a problem.

199 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:52:57am

re: #198 SanFranciscoZionist


I did find this, while browsing around, that made me proud:

Image: Abolish_child_slavery.jpg

200 Gus  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:54:06am

Another nut. These days, they're letting anyone be a Republican -- the party is out of control. Between 2009 and 2010, they've managed to become one of the most radicalized parties in American history.

201 AK-47%  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:57:00am

Have we heard any Republican comments n this or are they just closing thier eyes and hoping it blows over without serious consequences?

202 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:57:24am

re: #200 Gus 802

Those signs with Bush on them saying "Miss me yet?" are on the mark for a totally different reason than the people waving them think they are.

Bush was awful on science, but he didn't dabble with this kind of odious crap.

203 AK-47%  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 11:58:23am

Bush's immigration reform plans were one of the few things he did that I wholehearetdly supported, but he couldn't get it past his own party.

204 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 12:34:11pm

re: #154 Fozzie Bear

It is my opinion that if parts of our economy depend upon the exploitation of immigrants, illegal or otherwise, then we are simply paying too little for our veggies.

We don't deserve to live better on the backs of the less fortunate. We just do, because we can. If doing the right thing means living less luxurious, more expensive lives, so be it. It is the right thing to do.

It's not "less luxurious", it would be a depression.

Would you like another depression? No. Nobody will. Hence, nothing will change.

This isn't a matter of oh-noes-Peaches-Cost-MORE?!?!, it's a matter of our country being plunged into chaos.

205 ReamWorks SKG  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 12:55:43pm

re: #199 Obdicut

Interesting the word for "Slavery" in Yiddish here is שקלאַפער I don't have my YIVO dictionary here so I can't see what the proper literary word would be.

I would have guessed the Yiddish word would be from Hebrew root עבדות because the word is well-known from the liturgy (עבדים היינו...) and those words tended to end up in Yiddish.

206 ReamWorks SKG  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 12:58:55pm

re: #199 Obdicut

Interesting the word for "Slavery" in Yiddish here is שקלאַפערי I don't have my YIVO dictionary here so I can't see what the proper literary word would be.

I would have guessed the Yiddish word would be from Hebrew root עבדות because the word is well-known from the liturgy (עבדים היינו...) and those words tended to end up in Yiddish.

207 ReamWorks SKG  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 1:00:45pm

Hmmm....LGF is misformatting my Yiddish-language posts. And I thought our Leader liked the Jews.

208 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 1:02:52pm

re: #207 reuven

Heh. I noticed that when I tried some Japanese the other day; I don't think it's Hebrew specific.

209 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 1:05:01pm

It's because spaces are inserted into long runs of characters, to prevent having the page get really wide in some browsers.

210 Steve Dutch  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 1:07:46pm

I'm all for mining the border. Who knows how much mineral wealth is there?

Wait a minute. Never mind.

211 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 1:40:33pm

re: #202 Obdicut

Those signs with Bush on them saying "Miss me yet?" are on the mark for a totally different reason than the people waving them think they are.

Bush was awful on science, but he didn't dabble with this kind of odious crap.

We don't have George Bush to kick around anymore...

212 lostlakehiker  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 1:40:52pm

re: #210 SteveDutch

I'm all for mining the border. Who knows how much mineral wealth is there?

Wait a minute. Never mind.

I think we should theirs the border.
/calvin, who loved verbing nowns because it weirds the language.

213 Lidane  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 3:00:58pm

re: #202 Obdicut

Bush was awful on many things, but he didn't dabble with this kind of odious crap.

FTFY.

I had plenty of policy disagreements with Dubya. I'd *still* take him (but NOT Cheney, thanks) over any of the loonies running for office as Republicans today. He might have had his issues, but he's infinitely more tolerable than the assholes calling for landmines on the border or for repealing the 14th Amendment.

214 nekama  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 4:13:08pm

re: #3 Soap_Man

You're right buddy. That is pretty crazy.

It sure is. But an Israeli style security fence is overdue.

(Safely) securing the border so we know who's coming and going needs to be done stat.

215 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 4:49:51pm

re: #214 nekama

We have a fence across a lot of the border.

It's not feasible to do for the whole border.

Nor would it be successful.

216 wrenchwench  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 5:34:41pm

I just had a long conversation with a friend of mine who has lived near the border with Mexico for over 20 years. He was quite disheartened to hear about the nut talking about mining the border. However, the tales he told make it clear that more security is needed. The Border Patrol needs the kind of equipment that the military has, helicopters in particular. My friend said we need either to militarize the Border Patrol or put the military on the border. He understands that legally the latter cannot be done without some kind of emergency powers. He says we have the emergency.

This friend is an EMT, among other things, and a warm and tenderhearted person. He almost had tears in his eyes when he said he wants SB 1070 to be given a chance. He doesn't know the racist history of those who wrote it, but he is aware of all the emotion around it. He said it's gotten to the point where people would rather talk about something less emotional, like abortion.

217 [deleted]  Wed, Jun 16, 2010 6:46:00am
218 Nekama  Wed, Jun 16, 2010 4:04:56pm

re: #215 Obdicut

We have a fence across a lot of the border.

It's not feasible to do for the whole border.

Nor would it be successful.

We have a nearly 2,000 mile border and fencing is most needed only along about 700 miles of it, primarlily in California and Arizona, where smuggling and illegal crossings primarily take place.

It is certain to be successful. Israel has largely eliminated suicide bombings and terror attacks since the installation of their still not fully complete security fence. The jihadis aren't likely any less determined than the drug and human smugglers.

219 Nekama  Wed, Jun 16, 2010 4:13:54pm

re: #216 wrenchwench

I just had a long conversation with a friend of mine who has lived near the border with Mexico for over 20 years. He was quite disheartened to hear about the nut talking about mining the border. However, the tales he told make it clear that more security is needed. The Border Patrol needs the kind of equipment that the military has, helicopters in particular. My friend said we need either to militarize the Border Patrol or put the military on the border. He understands that legally the latter cannot be done without some kind of emergency powers. He says we have the emergency.

We certainly have the emergency. We're missing the will to do something about it.

Start with an Israeli style security fence where it's most needed and move to a sane guest worker and immigration policy. We must ensure that our country to get the labor it needs and reunites families while knowing who is coming to our country.

220 wrenchwench  Wed, Jun 16, 2010 4:41:59pm

re: #219 Nekama

I agree on the guest worker and immigration policy needs. I just can't see the Israeli-style fence as a solution. Any fence needs personnel to go with it. Without the personnel, people will go over, under, around, and through it. OK, maybe not under an Israeli-style one, but the expense for 700 miles of that is just untenable. There would be no money for manpower.

Helicopters, drones, more men and women, and increased will. That's what I'm calling for.

221 miguelj  Wed, Jun 16, 2010 6:36:41pm

What a dumb idea. Just for one thing: what about crossers who run afoul of the mines, get a leg blown off, and then lie bleeding on the US side of the border? Either we leave them there to die, or else assume responsibility for a lifetime of medical care. But politicians are stupid, they don't think these things through. Mining a border is what you do when you are at war with a neighboring government. Not otherwise.

222 Nekama  Wed, Jun 16, 2010 7:10:05pm

re: #220 wrenchwench

I agree on the guest worker and immigration policy needs. I just can't see the Israeli-style fence as a solution. Any fence needs personnel to go with it. Without the personnel, people will go over, under, around, and through it. OK, maybe not under an Israeli-style one, but the expense for 700 miles of that is just untenable. There would be no money for manpower.

Helicopters, drones, more men and women, and increased will. That's what I'm calling for.

I love your nic. Back in the day when I raced bikes we called the hottie who worked at our local shop the WrenchWench.

You are right that a fence requires manpower and money. As do helicopters, drones, and additional personnel. No doubt taking control of our borders will be very expensive, but I believe that continuing to do nothing is even more so.


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The Pandemic Cost 7 Million Lives, but Talks to Prevent a Repeat Stall In late 2021, as the world reeled from the arrival of the highly contagious omicron variant of the coronavirus, representatives of almost 200 countries met - some online, some in-person in Geneva - hoping to forestall a future worldwide ...
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4 days ago
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Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ...
Cheechako
2 weeks ago
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