The Roots of Sharia Hysteria

Opinion • Views: 3,659

Matt Duss has a good piece about The Roots Of ‘Sharia’ Hysteria, pointing out this interesting article at Foreign Policy about the Muslim Brotherhood, which concludes:

At a global level, the Brotherhood is no Mafia. Nor is it a rigid and disciplined Stalinist-style Comintern. It most closely resembles today’s Socialist International: a tame framework for a group of loosely linked, ideologically similar movements that recognize each other, swap stories and experiences in occasional meetings, and happily subscribe to a formally international ideology without giving it much priority. There is every reason to be interested in the Brotherhood’s myriad (and surprisingly diverse) country branches, but there is no reason to fear it as a menacing global web.

Duss comments:

Are there Muslim missionaries in the U.S. right now who want to get Americans to adopt Islam? Yes, just as there are Christian missionaries in Indonesia who want to get Indonesians to worship Jesus. Christianity and Islam are both evangelizing religions. Spreading the faith is part of the program.

Are there also radical Muslims in America right now trying to find ways to turn the U.S. into a religious state? Most likely, yes, and we should be on guard against it. It’s worth noting, however, that the Christian Right has failed at this for decades, in a country where over 75% of people identify as Christian. So good luck with that, radical Muslims.

To put it plainly, the idea that the Muslim Brotherhood is making “real progress…in insinuating shariah into the very heartland of America through stealthy means,” as the Team B II report claims, is preposterous. And, probably needless to say, it’s utterly unsupported by any real evidence.

That’s exactly right. Being informed about the Muslim Brotherhood’s ideology, and being aware of the radicals who would like to spread hard-line sharia by any means necessary, is a good idea. After all, this is the strain of Islamic extremism that was behind the 9/11 attacks, and it’s the strain we’re currently at war with in Afghanistan.

Lately, I’ve seen some bloggers suggest that I’m being a hypocrite for mocking Newt Gingrich’s call for legislation to prevent a sharia takeover of the US legal system, because I’ve posted numerous articles at LGF in the past about sharia law, the Muslim Brotherhood, and the various ideologies of radical Islamic groups.

Nope, not hypocritical. You won’t find any articles by me suggesting that we need legislation to outlaw sharia, or to outlaw the Muslim Brotherhood or any other Islamic group — because I don’t believe that, and I’ve never believed that.

But I do believe that knowledge is power. And my goal in posting articles about radical Islam has always been to share knowledge of these issues, not to fuel the kind of craziness we see coming from Newt Gingrich and countless right wing demagogues and bloggers — who are calling for idiotic, bigoted, totally unnecessary legislation to stop a fanciful imminent takeover of America by their latest minority boogeyman.

Also see

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106 comments
1 Kragar  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:20:23pm

There is a distinct difference between being aware of a potential threat and seeing it hiding behind every nook and cranny.

2 Jeff In Ohio  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:21:34pm

That was a good article. I had a page the other day about The Center for Security Policy and the paper they presented to a few members of Congress. One of the CSP's resources on Sharia was a guy name David Yerushalmi. Among others things, Yerushalmi has called for

- It shall be a felony punishable by 20 years in prison to knowingly act in furtherance of, or to support the, adherence to Islam.
- The Congress of the United States of America shall declare the US at war with the Muslim Nation or Umma.

- The President of the United States of America shall immediately declare that all non-US citizen Muslims are Alien Enemies under Chapter 3 of Title 50 of the US Code and shall be subject to immediate deportation.

- No Muslim shall be granted an entry visa into the United States of America.

More:
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

3 MarkAM  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:22:42pm

Seems to me we have something called the Constitution that stands in the way of Sharia.

Gingrich is quite the scholar. //

4 Jeff In Ohio  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:23:14pm

Shit, I see you linked to the Wonk Rooms piece on Yerushalmi. Speed reading fail!

5 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:24:37pm

I had a pretty detailed piece on Yerushalmi and other associates of Pamela Geller, last month -- several of those articles cite my piece: Meet the Leaders of the Anti-Mosque Movement.

6 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:27:30pm

Interesting point being made here...

Are there also radical Muslims in America right now trying to find ways to turn the U.S. into a religious state? Most likely, yes, and we should be on guard against it. It’s worth noting, however, that the Christian Right has failed at this for decades, in a country where over 75% of people identify as Christian. So good luck with that, radical Muslims.

Just what I have said over and over. The Christian theocrats talk a good game, make some headlines, and frighten soft-willed people into believing that they are on the cusp of making the United States a theocratic society, but our constitution, which was put in place for JUST SUCH A REASON, has managed to stand up to these zealots.

So good luck with that, radical Dominionist,

7 Ojoe  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:28:00pm

re: #1 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

There is a distinct difference between being aware of a potential threat and seeing it hiding behind every nook and cranny.

Seeing it behind every nook and cranny is an ineffective way of dealing with it, to boot.

8 Jack Burton  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:29:57pm

re: #3 MarkAM

Seems to me we have something called the Constitution that stands in the way of Sharia.

Gingrich is quite the scholar. //

I'm sure the wingnut response to that is something like this: "Activist liberal judges can find away to make the constitution say whatever they want. They will twist logic to make it somehow ok for Sharia law to exist in the US."

Of course that is ricockulous, but I'm sure that is the 'reasoning' behind it.

9 Jeff In Ohio  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:30:27pm

re: #5 Charles

Wow, Yerushalmi is quite the intellectual. Gingrich/Yerushalmi '12.

10 Ojoe  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:30:42pm

From the LGF sidebar:

Frank says:
My best advice to anyone who wants to raise a happy, mentally healthy child is: Keep him or her as far away from a church as you can.

BBL

11 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:38:16pm

re: #6 Walter L. Newton

That's only true because of vigilance, though. During the 1950's, we added phrases specifically referencing God to the pledge of allegiance and to our money.

In Oklahoma and other places, cruel laws shaming women who seek abortions have been passed, due to religious influence. These laws eventually get slapped down by the courts, but:

A) It takes time. During that time, women are affected by those laws.

B) It depends on having judges who are not Dominionist themselves, and who believe in the right to privacy.

C) It creates a chilling effect on providers of abortion, making many of them leave the state-- I believe it's Missouri that has exactly one place you can get an abortion.

So, while no law based on Islamic beliefs has ever been passed or had an effect in the US, many laws based on Christian beliefs have been passed, and many are still in effect.

I don't think the Dominionists will ever win, either-- but that is because they are opposed.

The Islamic Supremacists will never win because there are none of them in congress, no one in congress is sympathetic to them, and they have no political influence in this country whatsoever.

I don't think you really got the point of the comparison.

12 Jeff In Ohio  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:42:10pm
There is a reason the founding fathers did not give women or black slaves the right to vote. You might not agree or like the idea but this country’s founders, otherwise held in the highest esteem for their understanding of human nature and its affect on political society, certainly took it seriously. Why is that? Were they so flawed in their political reckonings that they manhandled the most important aspect of a free society – the vote? If the vote counts for so much in a free and liberal democracy as we ‘know’ it today, why did they limit the vote so dramatically.
- David Yerushalmi, General Counsel of the Center for Security Policy


[Link: wonkroom.thinkprogress.org...]

Holy shit. This guy makes John Yoo look like a flaming liberal.

13 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:43:33pm

re: #11 Obdicut

That's only true because of vigilance, though. During the 1950's, we added phrases specifically referencing God to the pledge of allegiance and to our money.

In Oklahoma and other places, cruel laws shaming women who seek abortions have been passed, due to religious influence. These laws eventually get slapped down by the courts, but:

A) It takes time. During that time, women are affected by those laws.

B) It depends on having judges who are not Dominionist themselves, and who believe in the right to privacy.

C) It creates a chilling effect on providers of abortion, making many of them leave the state-- I believe it's Missouri that has exactly one place you can get an abortion.

So, while no law based on Islamic beliefs has ever been passed or had an effect in the US, many laws based on Christian beliefs have been passed, and many are still in effect.

I don't think the Dominionists will ever win, either-- but that is because they are opposed.

The Islamic Supremacists will never win because there are none of them in congress, no one in congress is sympathetic to them, and they have no political influence in this country whatsoever.

I don't think you really got the point of the comparison.

Very good... you just described how our nation and constitution works. I hope your not suggesting that we change it?

14 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:45:39pm

Nothing like riling the base by stirring fear of the federal fatwa...

15 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:46:56pm

re: #13 Walter L. Newton

Very good... you just described how our nation and constitution works. I hope your not suggesting that we change it?

Again, I think you missed the point of what I was saying.

There is reason to be concerned about what Dominonists do here in the US in terms of legislation and politics because what they do has real, actual effects. They have a lot of political power, and it is only through the constant action of those opposing them that their power is held in check. It is not simply the inanimate Constitution-- it is real, actual people acting on Constitutional principles.

There is basically no reason to be concerned about Islamic Supremacists in terms of legislation and politics because they have absolutely no power in US politics.

There is reason to be concerned about Islamic Supremacists in their ability to recruit and radicalize other Muslims. But that's not the same thing at all.

Does this help you understand the concepts I was talking about better?

16 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:48:50pm

re: #15 Obdicut

Again, I think you missed the point of what I was saying.

There is reason to be concerned about what Dominonists do here in the US in terms of legislation and politics because what they do has real, actual effects. They have a lot of political power, and it is only through the constant action of those opposing them that their power is held in check. It is not simply the inanimate Constitution-- it is real, actual people acting on Constitutional principles.

There is basically no reason to be concerned about Islamic Supremacists in terms of legislation and politics because they have absolutely no power in US politics.

There is reason to be concerned about Islamic Supremacists in their ability to recruit and radicalize other Muslims. But that's not the same thing at all.

Does this help you understand the concepts I was talking about better?

Then what do you suggest be done about the Dominonists?

17 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:52:57pm

re: #16 Walter L. Newton

Then what do you suggest be done about the Dominonists?

Every other time you want a pizza, order from Pizza Hut as balance

Oh ,, wait ,,, I thought you said "what do you suggest be done about the Domino's"

nevermind!

18 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:53:02pm

re: #16 Walter L. Newton

Then what do you suggest be done about the Dominonists?

I don't vote for their preferred candidates, don't support their proposed legislation, ignore their propoganda, resist their attempts to destroy science education, and finally laugh at them a lot.

How's that?

19 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:53:16pm

re: #16 Walter L. Newton

Then what do you suggest be done about the Dominonists?

Improved education would help reduce their numbers. But basically, as I already said: opposing them politically and constitutionally is the way to deal with them. Organizations like the ACLU and Southern Poverty Law center do a lot of good work in that regard. Voting against dominionists. Using the American political framework that exists to beat them.

Long term, we need better education, and to address the anti-science streak this country has-- the odd mixture of jealousy and suspicion of science that leads to things like gullible people howling about "Climategate" and believing the CRU to have been responsible for all sorts of misdeeds, rather than coming to the defense of scientists.

So, a mixture of political and cultural action.

20 darthstar  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:53:28pm

re: #16 Walter L. Newton

Then what do you suggest be done about the Dominonists?

Dominate 'em.

21 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:54:13pm

re: #20 darthstar

Dominate 'em.

I know a lady here in Atlanta for $50 she'll do that , WITH whips!

22 darthstar  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:54:15pm

re: #17 sattv4u2

Every other time you want a pizza, order from Pizza Hut as balance

Oh ,, wait ,,, I thought you said "what do you suggest be done about the Domino's"

nevermind!

Domino's is anti-choice. Don't give them your money.

23 darthstar  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:54:43pm

re: #21 sattv4u2

I know a lady here in Atlanta for $50 she'll do that , WITH whips!

Now you're dominionating like a man!

24 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:55:28pm

re: #22 darthstar

Domino's is anti-choice. Don't give them your money.

They have LOTS of choices

I choose every time I go there

Mushrooms, Onions, green peppers, sausage, etc etc

25 avanti  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:56:25pm

On the subject of evangelizing, the American family association weighs in on the question of a non-believer that has never heard of Christ going to hell.

"Therefore, we say with great sorrow and yet with deep biblical conviction, that those who do not believe in Jesus (whether or not they have ever heard of him) are lost forever.

Since the church was commanded to preach the gospel to every person, it is our own fault that after 2000 years, so many people have still never heard the Good News. "

Now you see why they are so driven to convert the world.

link.

26 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:57:49pm

This is an excellent article.

Unfortunately it is too well reasoned and factual to be taken up by a fear monger.

27 bratwurst  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:59:40pm

re: #22 darthstar

Domino's is anti-choice. Don't give them your money.

They are also anti-pizza!

28 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 2:01:11pm

re: #20 darthstar

Dominate 'em.

Loveland started making snow today.

29 Wishbone  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 2:01:32pm

How times change, eh?

It seems like only five minutes ago that I was arguing that Britain wasn't about to be overtaken by Sharia Law, all our churches converted to mosques and our complete denial of such, evident in the manner by which I dared to argue against the 'evidence'.

Ah....... lunatics..... where are you now?......... I miss your abject craziness................

30 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 2:04:30pm

re: #22 darthstar

Domino's is anti-choice. Don't give them your money.

As far as I know, that is one of those odd urban-myth rumors that got bandied about various circles as far back as the 90's.

They allow a full choice of toppings and double cheese, too.

31 Lidane  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 2:05:13pm

re: #12 Jeff In Ohio

[Link: wonkroom.thinkprogress.org...]

Holy shit. This guy is an ignorant, bigoted, sexist asshole.

FTFY

Screw that guy and everything he stands for. His anti-Islam idiocy was bad enough, but that garbage about minority and women voters is just beyond stupid.

If he's got a problem with minority or women voters, he can move to Saudi Arabia. Fuck him.

32 Lidane  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 2:06:47pm

re: #22 darthstar

Domino's is anti-choice. Don't give them your money.

They're also anti-food. I'd rather order from a local pizza joint than one of the national chains. The locals taste better, IMO.

33 iceweasel  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 2:07:31pm

re: #30 ralphieboy

As far as I know, that is one of those odd urban-myth rumors that got bandied about various circles as far back as the 90's.

.

No, it was true. It wasn't Domino's per se that did the anti-abortion funding, but someone high up in it, who has since left/sold his shares.

I don't know the current status of this though-- it came up here before. Is there any anti-abortion Domino's related funding still happening?

(this is moot, as there is more than enough reason to not order from Domino's anyway....)

34 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 2:08:17pm

The stupid things I start!

35 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 2:10:15pm

re: #34 sattv4u2

The stupid things I start!

All in a days work.

36 TedStriker  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 2:10:23pm

re: #25 avanti

On the subject of evangelizing, the American family association weighs in on the question of a non-believer that has never heard of Christ going to hell.

"Therefore, we say with great sorrow and yet with deep biblical conviction, that those who do not believe in Jesus (whether or not they have ever heard of him) are lost forever.

Since the church was commanded to preach the gospel to every person, it is our own fault that after 2000 years, so many people have still never heard the Good News. "

Now you see why they are so driven to convert the world.

link.

These people have a very skewed and very dangerous view of the Bible and the lessons of Jesus...I seriously doubt that Jesus would hold anything against someone who'd never been touched by Christianity.

People like this use Christ the Redeemer as a blunt object to bash anyone who is not like them over the head...they can get bent.

37 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 2:10:33pm

re: #35 Walter L. Newton

All in a days work.

And speaking of work... out of here for the evening...

38 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 2:11:15pm

re: #33 iceweasel

Odd thing about Germany is that outside of McD and Burger King (and more recently Subway), there are very few restaurant chains here. There is Nordsee, a seafood chain and Wienerwald, which despite its sausage-sounding name specializes in chicken, but most restaurants are family operations.

I believe it is because of labor laws: any operation with fewer than 50 employees does not have to be unionized, so owners want to keep things small and do not think in terms of starting chains.

39 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 2:11:32pm

re: #37 Walter L. Newton

And speaking of work... out of here for the evening...

Stay safe

40 MarkAM  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 2:11:51pm

re: #33 iceweasel

No, it was true. It wasn't Domino's per se that did the anti-abortion funding, but someone high up in it, who has since left/sold his shares.

I don't know the current status of this though-- it came up here before. Is there any anti-abortion Domino's related funding still happening?

(this is moot, as there is more than enough reason to not order from Domino's anyway...)

The founder, Tom Monaghan, but not Domino's per se, and he has indeed sold his shares:

[Link: www.snopes.com...]

41 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 2:12:41pm

re: #38 ralphieboy

Wienerwald,

You either
A) made that up
or
B) saw that sign in the red light district!!

//

42 iceweasel  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 2:12:50pm

re: #38 ralphieboy

Odd thing about Germany is that outside of McD and Burger King (and more recently Subway), there are very few restaurant chains here. There is Nordsee, a seafood chain and Wienerwald, which despite its sausage-sounding name specializes in chicken, but most restaurants are family operations.

I believe it is because of labor laws: any operation with fewer than 50 employees does not have to be unionized, so owners want to keep things small and do not think in terms of starting chains.

There was an article in the NYT a few weeks ago about France and Germany and labor laws-- i'll see if I can find it. It was interesting. There is no doubt that the american worker gets screwed in a number of ways.

43 iceweasel  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 2:13:22pm

re: #40 MarkAM

The founder, Tom Monaghan, but not Domino's per se, and he has indeed sold his shares:

[Link: www.snopes.com...]

Cheers! I knew someone here would have the info. :)

44 Jack Burton  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 2:15:02pm

re: #38 ralphieboy

There is Nordsee, a seafood chain and Wienerwald, which despite its sausage-sounding name specializes in chicken, but most restaurants are family operations.

Wienerwald is only sausage sounding to the ears of English speakers because of the hotdog place here. That said, "Vienna Forest" doesn't scream chicken to me though.

45 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 2:16:23pm

re: #22 darthstar

Domino's is anti-choice. Don't give them your money.

Boycott pineapple on pizza!

46 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 2:18:53pm

re: #41 sattv4u2


Wienerwald,

You either
A) made that up
or
B) saw that sign in the red light district!!

//

Wienerwald means just one thing here: Chickens running wild

[Link: www.wienerwald.de...]

47 Kragar  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 2:19:44pm

re: #46 ralphieboy

Wienerwald means just one thing here: Chickens running wild

[Link: www.wienerwald.de...]

Is that what the kids call it now?

48 KenJen  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 2:19:52pm

re: #41 sattv4u2


Wienerwald,

You either
A) made that up
or
B) saw that sign in the red light district!!

//

Sounds like a German nudist theme park.

49 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 2:21:10pm

Schnitzel on a Schtick!!!

50 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 2:27:20pm

re: #11 Obdicut

That's only true because of vigilance, though. During the 1950's, we added phrases specifically referencing God to the pledge of allegiance and to our money.

In Oklahoma and other places, cruel laws shaming women who seek abortions have been passed, due to religious influence. These laws eventually get slapped down by the courts, but:

A) It takes time. During that time, women are affected by those laws.

B) It depends on having judges who are not Dominionist themselves, and who believe in the right to privacy.

C) It creates a chilling effect on providers of abortion, making many of them leave the state-- I believe it's Missouri that has exactly one place you can get an abortion.

So, while no law based on Islamic beliefs has ever been passed or had an effect in the US, many laws based on Christian beliefs have been passed, and many are still in effect.

I don't think the Dominionists will ever win, either-- but that is because they are opposed.

The Islamic Supremacists will never win because there are none of them in congress, no one in congress is sympathetic to them, and they have no political influence in this country whatsoever.

I don't think you really got the point of the comparison.

Excellent post.

51 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 2:29:32pm

re: #49 ralphieboy

Schnitzel on a Schtick!!!

Sounds painful!

How do you heal a broken Schnitzel

52 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 2:32:14pm

re: #46 ralphieboy

Wienerwald means just one thing here: Chickens running wild

[Link: www.wienerwald.de...]

Oh, way too cool. I wish I'd found a place like that when I was over there! Schnitzel & salad, yum! Of course, the pomme frites lady with her truck with two big lard deep fat friers was bad enough ;) Plus a half coke & half orange soda :D

53 Lidane  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 2:33:07pm
54 Henchman 25  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 2:35:25pm

re: #53 Lidane

OUTRAEG!!1!!1111

55 RadicalModerate  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 2:37:53pm

re: #43 iceweasel

Cheers! I knew someone here would have the info. :)

The only major fast-food franchise that I make it a point to not give business to is Chick-fil-a, since their founder (and current owner) S. Truett Cathy is a Dominionist, and has used the company to promote Focus on the Family's politics, including the "kidnap teenage kids and cure them of being gay" Exodus International wing.

56 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 2:38:52pm

re: #55 RadicalModerate

The only major fast-food franchise that I make it a point to not give business to is Chick-fil-a, since their founder (and current owner) S. Truett Cathy is a Dominionist, and has used the company to promote Focus on the Family's politics, including the "kidnap teenage kids and cure them of being gay" Exodus International wing.

That, and you can't buy one of their tasty sammiches on a Sunday!
//

57 freetoken  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 2:40:03pm

Fred Davis Signs With Christine O'Donnell

California-based Republican ad man Fred Davis signed a contract today with Delaware Senate Republican candidate Christine O'Donnell to craft her television ads for her general election battle against Democrat Chris Coons.

"We'll be doing something interesting, I hope," Davis told National Journal.

His firm, Strategic Perception Inc., is behind some of the GOP's most buzz-worthy ad spots in recent election cycles. It has produced two viral hits of 2010 so far: the "Demon Sheep" ad for California Republican Senate candidate Carly Fiorina and the "Worst President in History" ad for Arizona Republican House candidate Ben Quayle.

O'Donnell won an upset primary victory against Rep. Mike Castle earlier this month. Her candidacy has been derided by some in the Republican establishment, including former Bush strategist Karl Rove, but Davis' signing on could be a signal that the GOP is coalescing around its nominee.

I wonder if O'Donnell thinks the "Demon Sheep" are actually possessed sheep?

58 iceweasel  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 2:41:05pm

re: #55 RadicalModerate

The only major fast-food franchise that I make it a point to not give business to is Chick-fil-a, since their founder (and current owner) S. Truett Cathy is a Dominionist, and has used the company to promote Focus on the Family's politics, including the "kidnap teenage kids and cure them of being gay" Exodus International wing.

Really? I had no idea! Grrrrr-- I've only eaten there twice, both in atlanta. Have to say I really liked it though. :(

Ugh

59 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 2:52:19pm

Why I don't take conservative blogs seriously....
Hot Air: Durable goods orders drop in August, new-home market still flatlining

Meanwhile in the real world: U.S. stocks rally to score fourth week of gains

U.S. stocks rose sharply Friday, ending their fourth-straight positive week on a strong note as signs of stabilization in durable goods and housing boosted investors’ appetite for risk.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average /quotes/comstock/10w!i:dji/delayed (DJIA 10,860, +197.84, +1.86%) advanced 197.84 points, or 1.86%, to 10860.26, its biggest one-day rise since Sept. 1.


lol@wingnuts

60 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 2:57:39pm

On topic: I still see radical Islam as a substantial threat in term of terrorism. Islam does have a fairly unique problem in the modern world in that no other major religion produces quite so much senseless violence against civilians.
However, in terms of our freedoms here in America, the Christian right is a more substantial threat. Especially since they've eradicated the separation of church and state in their own minds. They are a much larger portion of the population and are a greater threat to science, culture and freedom than the Islamists. In terms of potential death toll Islam still holds the upper hand.

61 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 3:04:37pm

re: #59 Killgore Trout

Why I don't take conservative blogs seriously...
Hot Air: Durable goods orders drop in August, new-home market still flatlining

Meanwhile in the real world: U.S. stocks rally to score fourth week of gains


lol@wingnuts

It's still a mixed bag, vis a vis housing

Among stocks in focus, KB Home /quotes/comstock/13*!kbh/quotes/nls/kbh (KBH 12.11, +0.00, +0.00%) shares gained 3.4%. The home builder’s fiscal third-quarter loss narrowed significantly on sharply lower write-downs, while orders declined again following the expiration of a federal tax credit. Deliveries rose, as did the average selling price of a home.

62 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 3:04:48pm

Ain't askeert of Sharia in America as long as the Mullahs won't let us see boobies and stuff.

Won't happen.

63 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 3:06:07pm

re: #62 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Ain't askeert of Sharia in America as long as the Mullahs won't let us see boobies and stuff.

Won't happen.

And football ,,, pigskins, and all!!

64 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 3:07:43pm

re: #63 sattv4u2

Well... there's that. And the boobies.

65 garhighway  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 3:08:42pm

re: #61 sattv4u2

It's still a mixed bag, vis a vis housing

Among stocks in focus, KB Home /quotes/comstock/13*!kbh/quotes/nls/kbh (KBH 12.11, +0.00, +0.00%) shares gained 3.4%. The home builder’s fiscal third-quarter loss narrowed significantly on sharply lower write-downs, while orders declined again following the expiration of a federal tax credit. Deliveries rose, as did the average selling price of a home.

Housing is going to be lackluster for a long time. The housing bubble left us with a huge oversupply. What's in the foreclosure pipeline right now is enough to keep prices low in most markets for another year, and that assumes new defaults slow down.

I don't think people realize what a mess the economy was in back in September 2008. We were very close to a total collapse.

66 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 3:13:45pm

re: #65 garhighway

Housing is going to be lackluster for a long time. The housing bubble left us with a huge oversupply. What's in the foreclosure pipeline right now is enough to keep prices low in most markets for another year, and that assumes new defaults slow down.

I don't think people realize what a mess the economy was in back in September 2008. We were very close to a total collapse.

It's also worth noting that the decline in housing this month was due to the stimulus tax credit which did what it was supposed to do.

67 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 3:13:49pm

re: #65 garhighway

Housing is going to be lackluster for a long time. The housing bubble left us with a huge oversupply. What's in the foreclosure pipeline right now is enough to keep prices low in most markets for another year, and that assumes new defaults slow down.

I don't think people realize what a mess the economy was in back in September 2008. We were very close to a total collapse.

Offer new houses for
no money down
no payments 3 months
lax qualifying rules
interest only loans for "X" years
adjustable mortgages

and it will happen again

68 darthstar  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 3:17:31pm

re: #64 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Well... there's that. And the boobies.

mmm....boobies...

69 jamesfirecat  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 3:19:49pm

re: #17 sattv4u2

Every other time you want a pizza, order from Pizza Hut as balance

Oh ,, wait ,,, I thought you said "what do you suggest be done about the Domino's"

nevermind!

Dominos gives money to anti-abortion causes so you were half right anyway....

70 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 3:21:09pm

re: #68 darthstar

mmm...boobies...

Thats the same thing I think of every time I look at FBV also !!!

///

71 jamesfirecat  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 3:21:26pm

re: #53 Lidane

OMFG these guys are morans:

Desperate For Support, Republicans Tout Colbert’s Fake Endorsement Of ‘Pledge To America’

Heh.

And yet the ones who have been elected don't like it when he speaks out to Congress... go figure...

72 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 3:21:58pm

re: #68 darthstar

That'swhatI'msayin'!

73 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 3:25:21pm

K ,,,

I didn't hear the whole thing, but the a local (Atlanta) news channel just stated that a guy thats on death row has had his execution put on hold because earlier this week he (wait for it) attempted suicide!

74 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 3:39:09pm

re: #2 Jeff In Ohio

That was a good article. I had a page the other day about The Center for Security Policy and the paper they presented to a few members of Congress. One of the CSP's resources on Sharia was a guy name David Yerushalmi. Among others things, Yerushalmi has called for

More:
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

That someone named Yerushalmi supports such nonsense is a crying shame, and a shanda in the truest sense.

75 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 3:39:35pm

re: #74 SanFranciscoZionist

That someone named Yerushalmi supports such nonsense is a crying shame, and a shanda in the truest sense.

Indeed.

76 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 3:39:55pm

re: #8 ArchangelMichael

I'm sure the wingnut response to that is something like this: "Activist liberal judges can find away to make the constitution say whatever they want. They will twist logic to make it somehow ok for Sharia law to exist in the US."

Of course that is ricockulous, but I'm sure that is the 'reasoning' behind it.

If activist judges will do such, why does it matter if we have a Constitutional ban? Won't they just twist that too?

77 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 3:41:44pm

re: #76 SanFranciscoZionist

If activist judges will do such, why does it matter if we have a Constitutional ban? Won't they just twist that too?

Shhhhh... too much logic....

78 Liet_Kynes  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 3:41:54pm
Are there also radical Muslims in America right now trying to find ways to turn the U.S. into a religious state? Most likely, yes, and we should be on guard against it. It’s worth noting, however, that the Christian Right has failed at this for decades, in a country where over 75% of people identify as Christian. So good luck with that, radical Muslims.

The major difference is that Christian Fundamentalism rejects natural law and canon law. They are not actually proposing a legal system by which to govern the country but rather sort of an autocracy/oligarchy which implements “biblical law”.

75% of this nation identifies itself as Christian but over a 1/3 of that are Catholics, who even if poorly taught will never go along with such an idea and that is why you will never get a theocracy in the US. The numbers simply don’t add up.

On the other hand, Sharia Law is in fact a legal body of law, which is in fact recognized as such. Just as we have Natural Law, Canon Law, Common Law, Halakha Law, etc. as legally recognized bodies of law that have real precedence and usage for being implemented in this world and for being upheld as legitimate for use by secular governments.

Because Sharia Law is an actual body of law, that has precedence for being upheld, it does not take a majority of the people for it to be allowed. All it takes is judicial recognition, either in that Muslims can and have the right to police themselves on various issues or that the secular courts will uphold Sharia Law rulings when one of the parties is Muslim. It is not without precedence.

While there are laws and precepts in scripture, there is no such thing as “biblical law”, it is a fundamentalist fabrication based on sola scriptura, so it is comparing apples to oranges.

I have found that often the Roots of Sharia Hysteria come from people who are afraid that secular law will be forced to recognize the legitimacy of Sharia Law because the foundations of modern secular law is built upon the sand of modernism. They know not what to do to prevent it (because they themselves are unknowingly caught up in modernism) other than to reform modern secular law according to the constitution (as if the constitution is an inerrant document that determined truth) and then view the constitution as something that legitimized “biblical law”. Hence the hysterics – they don’t want sharia law and don’t feel that the modern system can prevent it.

79 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 3:42:33pm

re: #29 Wishbone

How times change, eh?

It seems like only five minutes ago that I was arguing that Britain wasn't about to be overtaken by Sharia Law, all our churches converted to mosques and our complete denial of such, evident in the manner by which I dared to argue against the 'evidence'.

Ah... lunatics... where are you now?... I miss your abject craziness...

Try another blog, you'll find lots.

If you really want them, that is.

80 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 4:13:48pm

I find the Sharia paranoia amusing personally. Apaprently there's a Sharia watch group in my state since you know those 3% of Muslims are going to implement Sharia on Virginia when we're not looking. I laugh at them with my whiskey and pork.

81 John Q  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 5:05:17pm

This is worth a read. (All the way to the end.)

[Link: www.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

82 SeafoodGumbo  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 6:14:02pm

today:

there is no reason to fear it as a menacing global web.

nov 2008:

world’s largest jihadist organization

I'll take door number two.

83 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 7:12:03pm

re: #82 SeafoodGumbo

today:

nov 2008:

I'll take door number two.

That's all you could dig up? Where's the post where I called for the Muslim Brotherhood to be banned, or for sharia law to be banned?

Oh, that's right, it doesn't exist.

But if you really prefer to be afraid of things that don't exist, it's your choice.

Meanwhile, the Muslim Brotherhood and other extremist groups are getting the message, occasionally via Predator drone, that Barack Obama is not really their friend.

84 SeafoodGumbo  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 9:47:21pm

re: #83 Charles

That's all you could dig up? Where's the post where I called for the Muslim Brotherhood to be banned, or for sharia law to be banned?

Oh, that's right, it doesn't exist.

But if you really prefer to be afraid of things that don't exist, it's your choice.

Meanwhile, the Muslim Brotherhood and other extremist groups are getting the message, occasionally via Predator drone, that Barack Obama is not really their friend.

One more? Muslim Brotherhood Wolf At the Door

Ok - the Muslim Brotherhood doesn't exist now, but was a menace only a few years ago. No threat anymore. NNnnnn nnnn. None at all.

85 ClaudeMonet  Sat, Sep 25, 2010 1:08:20am

re: #7 Ojoe

Seeing it behind every nook and cranny is an ineffective way of dealing with it, to boot.

True, but it gives the clueless a lot of influence. They can raise a lot of hell and force the concerned and the innocent to waste a lot of time and resources on "detection" and "proof" when they could be helping themselves and each other.

My half-baked theory is that the "Commies under my bed and throughout the government" crowd of 50-plus years ago and the Rabid Right today are essentially the same--Not-so-bright but perhaps a bit clever losers who deep down know they are losers, trying to drag everyone down to their level. "If I can't have what I want, nobody gets what they want".

86 ClaudeMonet  Sat, Sep 25, 2010 1:12:30am

re: #22 darthstar

Domino's is anti-choice. Don't give them your money.

Amen. I haven't done business with them in years, since I found out about the founder's involvement with Opus Dei.

Besides, if I want cheap pizza, I can make it myself; and if I want carryout or delivered pizza, I have two chains and a local joint near my place, all of them much better than Domino's.

87 ClaudeMonet  Sat, Sep 25, 2010 1:16:23am

re: #56 sattv4u2

That, and you can't buy one of their tasty sammiches on a Sunday!
//

I went by a recently opened Chick-Fil-A a couple of Sundays ago and wondered why there was nothing happening there.

88 jordash1212  Sat, Sep 25, 2010 1:20:59am

The Muslim Brotherhood today is not what it was at its birth in 1928. The Brotherhood quickly lost control to more radical elements led by Sayyid Qutb (and later al-Qaeda's second in command, Zarqawi), who I think can be labeled as one of the founders of radical Islam. Specifically his doctrine was one of literal interpretation of Qur'an, exporting Islam, and the establishment of a state under the provisions of sharia. That's not to say that no progress could be made. Many leaders of the Brotherhood, such as Hassan al-Banna, believed that while a state would be better off morally, technological advances could still be made under an Islamic state.

What most fail to recognize is that Islam was such an attractive outlet merely because of the lack of political freedoms removed by the despotic governments. What began under Nasser, continued under Sadat, and presently in effect under Mubarak, has led to a rebellion calling for a moral and people-led government. Compound all of that with economic doldrums and you have a perfect storm. Now where are these people going to find a safe place to speak about their political ideas? The one place available to them was, and to a certain extent still is, the mosque. Precisely because of the iron-fisted ruling of Nasser, Sadat, and, of today, Mubarak, we see that the MB has been somewhat pacified (not to excuse the measures they took) -- the more radical elements have long established ties with more violent and remorseless fanatical groups. The Brotherhood might remain on the more religious side, but I do not doubt that their intentions, at the very least in Egypt, are to create a more democratic state and to reform Egypt's political system. Such attempts can only be welcomed and praised by the Obama administration.

89 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 25, 2010 2:27:53am

re: #84 SeafoodGumbo

And you still haven't managed to find a single post calling for the Muslim Brotherhood to be banned, have you?

Being aware of their agenda is a good thing. Fear mongering and calling for unconstitutional laws is paranoid.

90 RogueOne  Sat, Sep 25, 2010 5:38:50am

re: #88 jordash1212

.... The Brotherhood might remain on the more religious side, but I do not doubt that their intentions, at the very least in Egypt, are to create a more democratic state and to reform Egypt's political system. Such attempts can only be welcomed and praised by the Obama administration.

The brotherhood is great as long as you're not a woman, or gay, or a copt, or an atheist, or a foreigner. You really believe they're out to create a "more democratic state"?

91 maryatexitzero  Sat, Sep 25, 2010 9:03:16am

At a global level, the Brotherhood is no Mafia. Nor is it a rigid and disciplined Stalinist-style Comintern.

But in the US, the Brotherhood is a criminal organization that, if our government wasn't working so closely with the Brotherhood's Saudi friends, would be identified as an organization whose members should be prosecuted under RICO statutes. (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act)

The Brotherhood is a criminal and political organization that hides behind the skirts of its tenuous ties to religion. I'm sure that Mafia mooks and old fans of Uncle Joe Stalin wish that they'd thought of the same scam. It's the perfect crime - Murder Inc. protected by "Freedom of Religion".

Since Christianity and Islam are both imperialistic religions, it's not surprising that some politically motivated "Christian" activists are trying their own version of the Brotherhood's long con. But their bad behavior shouldn't force us to choose sides. The enemy of your enemy is usually not your friend - this failed strategy (ie, our friendship with the Brotherhood's Saudi sponsors) is a strategy that is bound to fail. In an effort to condemn one ignorant group of troglodytes, we shouldn't downplay the criminal and demagogue wannabe goals of the other.

92 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 25, 2010 9:05:38am

re: #91 maryatexitzero

I'm not downplaying anything. I said very clearly in my post that being informed about the Muslim Brotherhood and other radical Islamic groups is important and necessary. But the idea that we need to pass laws to prevent sharia taking over our legal system is ludicrous and silly, and nothing but fear mongering. The Muslim Brotherhood isn't going to take over America.

93 maryatexitzero  Sat, Sep 25, 2010 9:05:44am

oops - sorry about the last paragraph - it goes without saying that a failed strategy is bound to fail

94 maryatexitzero  Sat, Sep 25, 2010 9:18:52am

But the Muslim Brotherhood and the ideology (and Saudi funding) that supports it has taken over other nations, and has caused millions of deaths. The recent history of the Sudan and the influence of the IHH in Turkey are proof that this is an organization that should be watched. The current secular government in Turkey is severely threatened by Saudi funded Islamism. Millions died in the civil war in the Sudan - the imposition of Sharia law was a major contributing factor. During the early 2000's, Islamist attacks against Thai buddhists caused hundreds of deaths. The death toll due to Islamist activity in Thailand was second only to the death toll caused by Iran and Saudi funded murder in Iraq.

America is not threatened by Sharia because we are one of the few countries in the world with a reasonably funded military force, but worldwide, Sharia law and the criminal/political organization that controls it is a threat worth being aware of. And yes, due to its anti-intellectual traditions and its savagery, worldwide it is worse than the Mafia, or the toothless remnants of communism - or even Newt Gingrich.

95 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 25, 2010 9:40:04am

re: #94 maryatexitzero

And again, that's exactly what I said -- that it's important to be aware of the Muslim Brotherhood and their agenda.

America isn't threatened by sharia not only because of our military, but because we have an open society that doesn't allow these kinds of totalitarian ideologies to flourish here. That's why the push to criminalize sharia is exactly the wrong approach. You don't guarantee your own freedoms by restricting others' freedoms for no reason except mindless fear, drummed up by demagogues.

96 jordash1212  Sat, Sep 25, 2010 11:06:54am

re: #90 RogueOne

Your falling to the same logic as the people who want to burn Qur'ans. The Muslim Brotherhood is a large organization, which historically has had a wide range of views on religion, politics, and violence. I'm sure if you look hard enough you might even find part of the Brotherhood that surprises you.

97 maryatexitzero  Sat, Sep 25, 2010 11:59:34am

re: #95 Charles

The Muslim Brotherhood and the worldwide oil-tick web that supports it is a fascist organization that has caused the destruction of governments, the enslavement and deaths of millions, and the terrorist-linked destabilization of formerly peaceful, relatively open societies. It's not at all comparable to "today’s Socialist International: a tame framework for a group of loosely linked, ideologically similar movements that recognize each other, swap stories and experiences in occasional meetings, and happily subscribe to a formally international ideology without giving it much priority."

I agree that the Muslim Brotherhood and American Muslim views on Sharia do not pose a direct threat to our happiness and our way of life, but our government and media alliances with the primary supporters of Islamism worldwide creates a very reasonable lack of trust in what should be an open society. Our government's alliance with (and many hugs and bows given to, the many millions in bribes accepted from) the supporters and financiers of 9/11 partially explains the existence of conspiracy theorists on the right and the left. Even the most moderate among us knows we're not getting the whole story.

Because of our strength, the fascist threat that the Muslim Brotherhood represents to America is the least important facet of this problem. America is still the most powerful country in the world. Given our tendency to obsess over repetitive and unsolvable right vs. left battles, and our tendency to ignore everything outside of our borders, It's not clear that we should have this responsibility, but until we can find a way to leave it on someone's doorstep ring the bell and run away, we're kind of stuck with it. The Muslim Brotherhood is a violent, fascist, authoritarian political organization with imperialist dreams and should be treated according to the threat it represents. Newt and even Christine O' whatever are just not in the same league.

98 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 25, 2010 12:58:22pm

re: #97 maryatexitzero

I think there's probably some truth to the Foreign Policy assertion that radicalism is not universal to all branches of the Muslim Brotherhood, but if a case can be made that they're a serious threat to the US, we already have a means of dealing with that -- the State Department's list of terror-linked organizations.

Returning to the original point, the call for special legislation to prevent a takeover of the US legal system by sharia (that's what Newt is advocating) is unnecessary, unrealistic, and just reeks of blatant fear mongering. And the people who are pushing it (Yerushalmi, Gaffney, Christine Brim, etc.) really suck, to use a technical term. There's a reason why this particular cause is attracting these bigots.

99 [deleted]  Sat, Sep 25, 2010 2:52:32pm
100 [deleted]  Sat, Sep 25, 2010 2:55:18pm
101 freetoken  Sat, Sep 25, 2010 2:59:17pm

re: #99 kamala

Feisal Abdul Rauf recently said, "90% of Sharia law is fully compatible -- not only compatible -- it's consistent or compatible with American constitutional law and American laws. The areas of difference are small and minor."

Assuming Rauf really did say that (and you've not provided a link), how do you know it's not true?

102 [deleted]  Sat, Sep 25, 2010 3:20:53pm
103 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 25, 2010 3:24:48pm

re: #102 kamala

I'm finished putting up with your kind of bigotry. There are lots of websites that have no problem with the crap you spew, so go post it at those sites. Because you're not welcome here.

104 maryatexitzero  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 9:03:57am

re: #98 Charles

Since the State Department is more devoted to protecting the interests of the Saudi Royals than the American people, and since they:

1. Made great efforts to cover up the lax visa policies that allowed the September 11 hijackers and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, (who was suspected to be member of al Qaeda even before the attacks took place) to enter the US legally-while keeping these policies in place as long as possible.

2. Ran an arms-for-tyrants program that nearly succeeded in providing Saddam Hussein's Iraq with nuclear capability

3. Ignore and/or harass American parents whose children have been kidnapped by foreign nationals

4. Offer no help or support to pro-democracy Iranians...

I wouldn't trust them at all.

And yes, Newt is a bigot. Sharia laws, which mostly revolve around the idea that Muslim men are superior to all other humans on the planet, are also bigoted. In this troglodyte vs. troglodyte battle I don't take sides.

105 Dom  Mon, Sep 27, 2010 12:21:11pm

Taking sides in blocs is an immense problem in democratic politics basically guaranteeing that any one position excludes a number of others without justification. Instead of working out minute compromises and ingenious solutions politicians fight and force the electorate to opt for an absurd batch of compromises whatever box they tick in the polls. It would be wonderful for politicians to outline and enforce a new ethic to encourage productive cooperation and non-partisan analysis but I don't know how and I don't know which influential politician would stick his or her neck out for that.

Our coalition government in the UK is an interesting exercise in that if anything could force the issue it would be that; atm people continue to prefer loyalist blocs even within the coalition. Maybe Boris Johnson.

106 Dom  Mon, Sep 27, 2010 12:26:52pm

That apparently out-of-context comment came from reflecting on how Charles is rightly doing his best to elaborate positions from his own conscience.


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