Randall Terry’s Campaign to Destroy Qurans

Wingnuts • Views: 3,262

Anti-abortion religious fanatic Randall Terry (founder of the militant Operation Rescue) has a new cause: he’s launching a cross-country campaign to destroy Qurans.

Because that’s what Jesus and Mary want him to do.

“What would Jesus do?” Maybe He would overturn tables, or chase or hit people with a whip; maybe he would call people names like “whitewashed tombs, or “brood of vipers” or “the sons of hell.” Maybe He would speak the truth, not back down, and even die.

“What would Mary do?” Maybe she would give prayers and urgings like she did at the battle of the gates of Vienna to destroy the Muslim army that sought to annihilate Christianity; maybe she would ask her Son for grace and strength to be given to the soldiers and sailors at the battle of Lepanto to destroy the Muslim Navy, and save Rome and all Christendom from the Muslim hordes.

I give these pictures in the fear of God; Jesus and Mary are not afraid of the truth. Jesus and Mary know that the Church militant should be just that, and that at times words and deeds that are not “politically correct” or “tolerant” must be used in the fight against evil, and the culture of death, and those who seek to destroy Truth and the Church.

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222 comments
1 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:06:59am

The Church Militant? It won’t be much longer till he decides to skip the koran burnings and go straight for the heretics.

2 Kronocide  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:08:00am

Terry has found a way to reinvent himself, he’s found a new cause. Plus he gets to be back in the news.

3 Nick Schroeder  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:08:18am

My invisible space wizard would totally kick your invisible space wizards ass.

4 jamesfirecat  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:08:18am

He’s not talking about the “fun” Mary is he?

5 Kronocide  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:09:17am

I wonder if he’ll be speaking at any GOP fundraisers or Tea Bag rallies.

No, I really do wonder. Not a joke.

6 reine.de.tout  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:09:43am

Argh.
Yet another person assuming he is God’s voice on earth.

We don’t know what Jesus would have done, truly we don’t.
Nor Mary.
We have no clue what they “would have” done.

And it is the ultimate idiocy for anyone to claim he/she knows.

7 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:09:48am

The #tcot idiots are ranting like crazy about Stephen Colbert. Tons of comments like this:

Allowing Steven Colbert to testify in front of Congress insults all Americans! Waste of time! Waste of money! #tcot

8 Liberal Classic  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:10:23am

The burning of books has no place in an enlightened and polite society.

The proper symbolic gesture is to wipe your ass with the pages.

9 shutdown  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:10:43am

re: #1 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The Church Militant? It won’t be much longer till he decides to skip the koran burnings and go straight for the heretics.

Unfortunately, I think we will be referring back to this post before too long. Remember the effect his hate mongering had on the anti-abortion movement….

10 iossarian  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:11:23am

Mary was at the Battle of Vienna in 1683? Who knew?

(I admit, I had to look it up on Wikipedia.)

11 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:11:39am

re: #7 Charles

but electing the likes of Rand Paul, O’Donnell, et al is a GREAT IDEA!?!

i wish i was being sarcastic…

12 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:12:38am

I seem to have missed the part where Jesus commanded his followers to go out and destroy all other religions.

13 Kronocide  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:12:40am

re: #8 Liberal Classic

The burning of books has no place in an enlightened and polite society.

The proper symbolic gesture is to wipe your ass with the pages.

That’s a shitty thing to say.

The real ‘Mercan way of doing it would be to shoot it with a musket and drag it through town behind your horse before hanging it in a tree.

14 Jeff In Ohio  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:13:15am

I’m only interested in What The Aqua Buddha Would Do. And Scooby. What would Scooby do? If he wants to burn some shit, Terry ought to hit the Aqua Buddha and then have some snacks.

15 Ojoe  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:14:15am

IMHO it is rather appropriate for a comedian to address congress.

16 shutdown  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:14:53am

re: #7 Charles

The #tcot idiots are ranting like crazy about Stephen Colbert. Tons of comments like this:

If you look up “tcot” on google you get something completely different than #tcot.

17 Ojoe  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:16:48am

Let’s leave these old books behind, in the sense of rigidly following them or totally rejecting them.

And I still think a common fire of “one of each” would be salutary.

18 Political Atheist  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:18:08am

So how do you burn a free download? hahahah

I love the net

19 Ojoe  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:19:00am

re: #4 jamesfirecat

Did you know there is a piazza in Venice dedicated to “Madonna Formosa” which translates roughly to “Buxom or even Voluptuous Virgin Mary?”

20 Ojoe  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:19:36am

re: #18 Rightwingconspirator

Heck you can delete Koran downloads, even.

21 shutdown  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:19:47am

GTG. Everybody be excellent to each other.

22 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:20:34am

The irony here is that if Terry was a Muslim making a call like this against Christianity, the #tcot folks would be demanding a Predator drone strike against him at once.

23 What, me worry?  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:20:51am

I’m a Jew and honestly? I think I know more about Christianity than this dim bulb.

24 jaunte  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:22:19am

re: #22 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
That must be a Twitter upgrade I haven’t loaded yet.

25 Gus  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:22:58am

re: #22 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The irony here is that if Terry was a Muslim making a call like this against Christianity, the #tcot folks would be demanding a Predator drone strike against him at once.

The other irony being that abortion is by and large prohibited in Islam.

26 Steve Dutch  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:23:57am

I plumb missed the parts where Jesus desecrated any of the Greek or Roman temples in Israel. He raised a ruckus in his own Temple, but he never committed any act of disrespect toward other religions. And Paul traveled all over a region full of Greek and Roman temples and never desecrated one. He got into a lot of trouble in Ephesus when people thought he would hurt business among piligrims to the Temple of Diana, and he got roughed up by people who considered him a heretic or rabble rouser, but not once did he ever desecrate someone else’s place of worship. In Athens, in fact, he complimented the Greeks on their piety. The Jews were ruthless about stamping out idolatry in Israel, but there’s no Biblical record whatsoever of them going to another country and wrecking temples. So tell me, Bible “believers” (in only the parts it suits you to believe), ‘zackly what is the Biblical basis for burning Qurans?

27 What, me worry?  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:24:14am

re: #7 Charles

The #tcot idiots are ranting like crazy about Stephen Colbert. Tons of comments like this:

They’re fools. It was great. I like Colbert, but I only occasionally watch the show.

He goes out on a limb to do things others don’t do. Like when he shaved his head and went to Afghanistan as a soldier. One could argue it’s all about ratings, but I think it’s more than that. I think he really gives a shit and uses his comedy to express his view. He’s a cynic and sarcastic, but he certainly makes his point.

28 darthstar  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:25:19am

re: #20 Ojoe

Heck you can delete Koran downloads, even.

And if you hit Shift-Delete, it doesn’t even go into the recycle bin. PWNED!

29 jamesfirecat  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:25:46am

re: #19 Ojoe

Did you know there is a piazza in Venice dedicated to “Madonna Formosa” which translates roughly to “Buxom or even Voluptuous Virgin Mary?”

Reminds me of certain parts of “Lamb the Gospel according to Biff….”

30 bratwurst  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:26:04am

re: #7 Charles

The #tcot idiots are ranting like crazy about Stephen Colbert. Tons of comments like this:

Heck, we had the same sentiment expressed right here in the last thread!

31 Political Atheist  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:26:26am

re: #6 reine.de.tout

Argh.
Yet another person assuming he is God’s voice on earth.

We don’t know what Jesus would have done, truly we don’t.
Nor Mary.
We have no clue what they “would have” done.

And it is the ultimate idiocy for anyone to claim he/she knows.

Every man who claims to know Gods will is a liar. Maybe to himself more than anyone else, but a liar none the less.

32 Political Atheist  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:27:19am

re: #20 Ojoe

Heck you can delete Koran downloads, even.

Oh No! The next outrage…

33 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:27:50am
“What would Mary do?” Maybe she would give prayers and urgings like she did at the battle of the gates of Vienna to destroy the Muslim army that sought to annihilate Christianity;

Sitings on pizzas, patterns of stucco, and freeway underpasses aside, didn’t Mary leave this mortal coil some 1600 years before that?

maybe she would ask her Son for grace and strength to be given to the soldiers and sailors at the battle of Lepanto to destroy the Muslim Navy, and save Rome and all Christendom from the Muslim hordes.

She really gets around! Wasn’t this also some 1500 years after she left this mortal coil?

Also, isn’t she famous for giving people the time to repent? I seem to recall a medieval legend about her keeping a hanged man suspended with her finger so that he could repent.

The point is that, the best parts of Christianity are about loving others and seeing the best in them. They are about humility before God so as to be able to see fellowship with other people.

What bothers me is that there seem to be no loud Christian voices decrying this abuse of their religion.

34 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:28:04am

re: #30 bratwurst

Heck, we had the same sentiment expressed right here in the last thread!

I still believe it was a total waste and a sham. Colbert was hilarious and I don’t blame him for doing his bit, I blame whatever asshat thought it was a good idea to interview a tv character, not the actor but the character. Idiots all of them.

35 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:28:07am

re: #31 Rightwingconspirator

Every man who claims to know Gods will is a liar. Maybe to himself more than anyone else, but a liar none the less.

Which is worse, lying to himself as to the claim, or knowingly lying so as to be able to manipulate others?

36 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:30:30am

re: #7 Charles

The #tcot idiots are ranting like crazy about Stephen Colbert. Tons of comments like this:

Humor is the one weapon that ideologues, fundamentalists and blowhards have no defense against. It is the same reason that communists and fascists are always so keen to pump up the image of fearless leader…It is the same reason the Fanatics in the Jihad world hated the Mohammed cartoons so much.

If your central message is fear and anger, laughter dispels that and leaves room for sense to work its way in, leaving people like those scowling old GOPers castrated.

37 darthstar  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:31:21am

re: #34 RogueOne

I still believe it was a total waste and a sham. Colbert was hilarious and I don’t blame him for doing his bit, I blame whatever asshat thought it was a good idea to interview a tv character, not the actor but the character. Idiots all of them.

I thought it was a waste of time before it happened, but I’m glad the committee was stupid enough to allow him to testify in character. He really highlighted what a colossal clusterfuck they are.

38 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:31:54am

re: #35 oaktree

Which is worse, lying to himself as to the claim, or knowingly lying so as to be able to manipulate others?

That is a marvelous question taken up at length in Talmud. The answer they came up with is that leading others into sin, misery and destruction compounds the sin.

39 Ojoe  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:32:18am

re: #33 LudwigVanQuixote

Actually, Mary was assumed bodily into heaven so she’s not left the mortal coil, or anyway she already has her resurrected body.

I learned these things at St. Therese School in the 1950s.

BBL, it’s lunchtime.

40 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:33:22am

re: #31 Rightwingconspirator

Every man who claims to know Gods will is a liar. Maybe to himself more than anyone else, but a liar none the less.

Wait, you mean “His ways are not our ways, and we were not around at the time of the creation?”

So much of hthe world would be better if religious leaders read and took to heart the very texts they claim are holy to them.

41 iossarian  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:33:33am

re: #33 LudwigVanQuixote

I think it’s always the same problem, wrt the absence of “loud” voices condemning the extremists. There are many such voices, but they are not “loud” precisely because they belong to moderates, and they don’t make for exciting news reports.

It’s the same reason why some people complain that there aren’t any moderate Muslims speaking out against the extremists. There are indeed plenty of moderate Muslims, but they’re not calling press conferences, and even if they did it’s not clear that CNN would attend.

Of course, this is not to dismiss the fact that some Muslim countries are currently more in thrall to fundamentalism. But that is more due to historical accident than specific characteristics of the religion itself.

42 jamesfirecat  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:33:33am

re: #36 LudwigVanQuixote

Humor is the one weapon that ideologues, fundamentalists and blowhards have no defense against. It is the same reason that communists and fascists are always so keen to pump up the image of fearless leader…It is the same reason the Fanatics in the Jihad world hated the Mohammed cartoons so much.

If your central message is fear and anger, laughter dispels that and leaves room for sense to work its way in, leaving people like those scowling old GOPers castrated.

To be fair the hatred of Mohammed cartoons probably has at least a part due to his command not to be shown in images or whatever it was that he said along those lines as opposed to most dictators who frequently can’t/couldn’t get enough of putting their faces on things, be it money, stamps, or statues….

43 allegro  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:33:53am

re: #34 RogueOne

I still believe it was a total waste and a sham. Colbert was hilarious and I don’t blame him for doing his bit, I blame whatever asshat thought it was a good idea to interview a tv character, not the actor but the character. Idiots all of them.

I think it was an excellent use of time to bring attention to the issue and discuss the reality of legal/illegal immigration. It has worked beautifully, has it not?

44 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:34:40am

re: #39 Ojoe

Actually, Mary was assumed bodily into heaven so she’s not left the mortal coil, or anyway she already has her resurrected body.

I learned these things at St. Therese School in the 1950s.

BBL, it’s lunchtime.

She was resurrected in the form of pizza and stucco?

///


Please forgive me.

45 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:34:49am

re: #37 darthstar

I thought it was a waste of time before it happened, but I’m glad the committee was stupid enough to allow him to testify in character. He really highlighted what a colossal clusterfuck they are.

His bit was funny but they should have volunteered their time to do it on Saturday Night Live instead of on the taxpayers dime.

46 allegro  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:35:46am

re: #45 RogueOne

His bit was funny but they should have volunteered their time to do it on Saturday Night Live instead of on the taxpayers dime.

Which would not have gotten the result it provably has gotten. Right here for instance.

47 jamesfirecat  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:35:56am

re: #45 RogueOne

His bit was funny but they should have volunteered their time to do it on Saturday Night Live instead of on the taxpayers dime.

Congress volunteered their time by inviting them.

Don’t blame the comedian blame the people in congress….

48 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:36:48am

re: #43 allegro

I think it was an excellent use of time to bring attention to the issue and discuss the reality of legal/illegal immigration. It has worked beautifully, has it not?

Except no one is talking about anything other than his appearance. No one is talking about immigration/farm workers just arguing about if it was a waste of time or not.

49 Political Atheist  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:36:58am

re: #35 oaktree

I’m comparing a rotten apple to a rotten orange. Either ruins the whole box. Deliberately misleading others to do hateful things iswould be best punished forthwith. Jail.

50 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:37:40am

re: #47 jamesfirecat

Congress volunteered their time by inviting them.

Don’t blame the comedian blame the people in congress…

and that’s what I did. This has been great for Colbert. Farm workers and illegal immigrants? Not so much.

51 iossarian  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:37:44am

re: #48 RogueOne

Except no one is talking about anything other than his appearance. No one is talking about immigration/farm workers just arguing about if it was a waste of time or not.

Well, not everyone is arguing about whether it was a waste of time.

52 Stanley Sea  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:37:57am

re: #48 RogueOne

Except no one is talking about anything other than his appearance. No one is talking about immigration/farm workers just arguing about if it was a waste of time or not.

Go downstairs. They’re talking about it.

53 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:38:04am

re: #51 iossarian

Well, not everyone is arguing about whether it was a waste of time.

LIES!/

54 allegro  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:38:16am

re: #48 RogueOne

Except no one is talking about anything other than his appearance. No one is talking about immigration/farm workers just arguing about if it was a waste of time or not.

Read the last thread.

55 What, me worry?  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:39:56am

re: #33 LudwigVanQuixote

Sitings on pizzas, patterns of stucco, and freeway underpasses aside, didn’t Mary leave this mortal coil some 1600 years before that?

She really gets around! Wasn’t this also some 1500 years after she left this mortal coil?

Also, isn’t she famous for giving people the time to repent? I seem to recall a medieval legend about her keeping a hanged man suspended with her finger so that he could repent.

The point is that, the best parts of Christianity are about loving others and seeing the best in them. They are about humility before God so as to be able to see fellowship with other people.

What bothers me is that there seem to be no loud Christian voices decrying this abuse of their religion.

Very true, but also remember that there’s an aspect to Christianity that’s all about fire and brimstone. That this world is meant for your suffering until you pass to heaven. That humans aren’t deserving of joy, certainly not respect (Fred Phelps). At least this is what has been described to me by friends who grew up in fire and brimstone Christianity and came out quite messed up over it. They’re Wiccans now. Years of pent up emotion and frustration (particularly sexual) and they kinda went in the opposite direction.

It’s dismal, but I really don’t think it’s any “less real” than other aspects of Christianity. It certainly isn’t for Pastor Terry, et al.

56 darthstar  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:40:23am

Speaking of characters who have no place in politics, Sarah Palin’s tweeting about this new great “grass roots” website:

Check out this grassroots effort to help commonsense conservatives get elected this year! http[REDACTED_fuckyousarah] 6 minutes ago via Facebook

Fuckin’ site’s called “oranize4palin”…bitch is pimping her own shit. She’s also pimping “The Blaze” (Glenn Beck’s new resevoir tip)


Of course, Sarah’s grass roots site is outsourced…

Domain name: ORGANIZE4PALIN.COM

Registrant:
Sheya Hanstater
38b Braydon Road
London, N16 6QB
GB


Administrative Contact:
GET FREE DOMAINS FROM ——- [Link: www.uk2.net…] ——-, , t
One Canada Square
Canary Wharf
London, E14 5DY
GB
+044.phonenumber
Technical Contact:
GET FREE DOMAINS FROM ——- [Link: www.uk2.net…] ——-, , h
One Canada Square
Canary Wharf
London, E14 5DY
GB
+044.phonenumber

57 Batman  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:40:57am

I hear for every Koran you burn in this life, you get a billion Heaven Funbucks in the next.

58 Stanley Sea  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:41:12am

Texas Board of Education narrowly OKs resolution asking publishers to correct perceived pro-Islamic bias in textbooks [Link: bit.ly…]

59 darthstar  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:41:31am

re: #45 RogueOne

His bit was funny but they should have volunteered their time to do it on Saturday Night Live instead of on the taxpayers dime.

It was five minutes. I’d rather have an hour of comedians mocking congress every day than the hours of repeated roll calls they execute to waste time on a daily basis.

60 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:41:44am

re: #42 jamesfirecat

To be fair the hatred of Mohammed cartoons probably has at least a part due to his command not to be shown in images or whatever it was that he said along those lines as opposed to most dictators who frequently can’t/couldn’t get enough of putting their faces on things, be it money, stamps, or statues…

I hear your point, but I could find links to several hundred medieval religious Muslim works with depictions of Mohammed.

[Link: scienceblogs.com…]

At best, you could argue that certain schools of Muslim thought, consider it idolatry. I have no comment on that. I actually understand why he (The actual Mohammed) might have wished to not be seen as or worshiped as a god himself.

However, this did not stop many many Muslims from making images through the ages.

More importantly, the issue was always that the Jihadis could not stand ridicule.

61 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:43:28am

re: #48 RogueOne

Except no one is talking about anything other than his appearance. No one is talking about immigration/farm workers just arguing about if it was a waste of time or not.

Last thread shows this is demonstrably untrue.

62 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:44:03am

re: #41 iossarian

I think it’s always the same problem, wrt the absence of “loud” voices condemning the extremists. There are many such voices, but they are not “loud” precisely because they belong to moderates, and they don’t make for exciting news reports.

It’s the same reason why some people complain that there aren’t any moderate Muslims speaking out against the extremists. There are indeed plenty of moderate Muslims, but they’re not calling press conferences, and even if they did it’s not clear that CNN would attend.

Of course, this is not to dismiss the fact that some Muslim countries are currently more in thrall to fundamentalism. But that is more due to historical accident than specific characteristics of the religion itself.

This is my fundamental dissapointment with so called moderates.

Moderate need not mean pussy. It should mean that one rejects the dogmas and doctrines of both the left and the right.

In the case of religion and religious purity, there is especially no room for being “moderate” with those who tear down your religion in order to promote their own agendas in the name of your religion.

63 darthstar  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:45:22am

re: #61 Obdicut

Last thread shows this is demonstrably untrue.

What they really need is Lewis Black to address congress…in character.

64 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:46:22am

re: #55 marjoriemoon

Very true, but also remember that there’s an aspect to Christianity that’s all about fire and brimstone. That this world is meant for your suffering until you pass to heaven. That humans aren’t deserving of joy, certainly not respect (Fred Phelps). At least this is what has been described to me by friends who grew up in fire and brimstone Christianity and came out quite messed up over it. They’re Wiccans now. Years of pent up emotion and frustration (particularly sexual) and they kinda went in the opposite direction.

It’s dismal, but I really don’t think it’s any “less real” than other aspects of Christianity. It certainly isn’t for Pastor Terry, et al.

That is a very valid set of points.

I suppose it comes down to another big issue with looking at religion in general. It can be very hard to separate the tenants of a religion, from the defective people who abuse them.

65 jamesfirecat  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:47:36am

re: #63 darthstar

What they really need is Lewis Black to address congress…in character.

I could be wrong, but honestly I don’t think Lewis Black has a character… he’s just a very angry very funny man…

66 Gus  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:48:54am

re: #61 Obdicut

Last thread shows this is demonstrably untrue.

I did come up with the Tea Party/GOP plan for dealing with immigration/farm workers:

A. Deport all illegal immigrants from the USA. No amnesty.
B. Stop all unemployment payments.
C. Unemployed Americans will then have no choice but to work on farms.
D. New employment opportunities will open up for former financial service consultants, teachers, engineers, etc. in fields such as dish washing, roofing, lawn maintenance, etc.
E. Extend the Bush tax cuts.

//

67 Ojoe  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:50:08am

re: #66 Gus 802

D. is quite correct.

LOL

68 darthstar  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:50:11am

re: #66 Gus 802

I did come up with the Tea Party/GOP plan for dealing with immigration/farm workers:

A. Deport all illegal immigrants from the USA. No amnesty.
B. Stop all unemployment payments.
C. Unemployed Americans will then have no choice but to work on farms.
D. New employment opportunities will open up for former financial service consultants, teachers, engineers, etc. in fields such as dish washing, roofing, lawn maintenance, etc.
E. Extend the Bush tax cuts.

//


I can see a bunch of fat-assed teabaggers picking strawberries in the hot summer sun now…oh, wait, they all passed out…never mind.

69 allegro  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:50:38am

Wow. I was just looking for some stats on farm production costs pertinent to the last thread and found something I think puts a whole new perspective on the discussion of farm labor.

From the USDA Farm and Income Costs 2010

Employee compensation (hired labor) is expected to climb $890 million (3.6 percent) while contract labor falls $130 million (3.5 percent).

Please compare to this:

Payments to stakeholders will constitute 18 percent of total expenses in 2010, identical to 2009. They will constitute 39 percent of net value added, down from 45 percent in 2009.

Makes the cries of “we can’t afford to pay labor a living wage or we’ll go out of business or it will raise the price of produce to unaffordable levels” a bit disingenuous, don’t it.

70 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:50:47am

re: #61 Obdicut

Last thread shows this is demonstrably untrue.

Read the stories on the NY Times site:
[Link: thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com…]

The Politico:
[Link: www.politico.com…]

and CNN
:[Link: www.cnn.com…]

and then come back and tell me how everyone is talking about immigration and not colbert. I take back the little bit of hyperbole in the words “no one” since I know you’re a bit of a literalist.

BTW, for future reference CNN actually did a decent job on the coverage.

71 kirkspencer  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:50:49am

re: #7 Charles

The #tcot idiots are ranting like crazy about Stephen Colbert. Tons of comments like this:

Elmo, Bert, and Ernie have all appeared before congress. Republicans and Democrats alike have invited actors who played roles that were relevant in some way to the discussion at hand.

72 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:50:54am

re: #58 Stanley Sea

Texas Board of Education narrowly OKs resolution asking publishers to correct perceived pro-Islamic bias in textbooks [Link: bit.ly…]

The thought police at work! Paid for by your tax dollars - if you live in Texas…

I wonder if these “freedom loving” anti government types realize the insane irony of creating government bodies to regulate thought.

73 Gus  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:51:55am

re: #68 darthstar

I can see a bunch of fat-assed teabaggers picking strawberries in the hot summer sun now…oh, wait, they all passed out…never mind.

For sure. And as true and good American patriots they’ll do so without health benefits.

Do they have cable and wireless outside of Modesto?

74 iossarian  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:52:19am

re: #62 LudwigVanQuixote

This is my fundamental dissapointment with so called moderates.

Moderate need not mean pussy. It should mean that one rejects the dogmas and doctrines of both the left and the right.

In the case of religion and religious purity, there is especially no room for being “moderate” with those who tear down your religion in order to promote their own agendas in the name of your religion.

I see what you’re saying and to some extent I agree, but I think there are two key things working against the visibility of people with moderate views:

1) In my opinion, holding moderate views means, almost by definition, that you cannot state your position in an easy soundbite. It’s always shades of gray. This makes it harder to get your point across via mass media. It’s also why, when you actually get into a detailed discussion about policy issues, moderate views tend to be more convincing, because they can deal with the complexity of reality better than black-and-white simplification.

2) Media are less likely to accurately report moderate opinions, because it is harder to do (again due to the lack of soundbites). This is also why the media are terrible at reporting on science. Science is hard to explain!

This is not to excuse moderates from trying to express their views. I guess what I’m saying is that, I think that moderates may very well be trying just as hard to get their views across, but for the reasons above, it’s less effective than what the all-or-nothing crowd are doing.

75 Gus  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:53:41am

re: #68 darthstar

I can see a bunch of fat-assed teabaggers picking strawberries in the hot summer sun now…oh, wait, they all passed out…never mind.

Oh. Since we’re on the subject. While they’re all out there working in the fields listening to Glenn Beck on their Ipods if any woman gets pregnant they won’t be able to have an abortion because it will be illegal. Even if a woman is raped according to the new face of the GOP.

Care for some grapes of wrath?

76 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:53:49am

re: #66 Gus 802

I did come up with the Tea Party/GOP plan for dealing with immigration/farm workers:

A. Deport all illegal immigrants from the USA. No amnesty.
B. Stop all unemployment payments.
C. Unemployed Americans will then have no choice but to work on farms.
D. New employment opportunities will open up for former financial service consultants, teachers, engineers, etc. in fields such as dish washing, roofing, lawn maintenance, etc.
E. Extend the Bush tax cuts.

//

And then watch the bottom drop out of our internal economy, or at least a major contraction and adjustment as either food prices skyrocket (to pay a decent wage to the new service workers), or consumer goods demand plummets since how much people can afford plummets due to lower income and GNP. Plus the monies the government would need to collect and spend to establish and maintain the border and internal police forces to firm up the border (and ports) and catch the illegals that get in. (And I somehow doubt that cost will be less than the savings from suspending unemployment.)

/ (as well - but it’s a thought experiment I guess)

77 darthstar  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:55:26am

re: #70 RogueOne

and then come back and tell me how everyone is talking about immigration and not colbert. I take back the little bit of hyperbole in the words “no one” since I know you’re a bit of a literalist.

BTW, for future reference CNN actually did a decent job on the coverage.

Of course they’re talking about Colbert. The media is a cesspool of underachievers. They don’t want to report on the actual issues…that’s boring. But Colbert is sexy. If he wasn’t there this morning, they never would have even bothered to mention that the committee was meeting. I think Lindsey Lohan should testify at the next Appropriations Subcommittee hearings, and Peewee Herman at the Judiciary Committee…maybe we could get the Teletubbies to stand before the Defense Committee…if that’s what it takes to get television coverage of what the fucking congress and senate are doing on a daily basis.

Or we could just stare at some spokesmodel in a push-up bra telling us the President is a Muslim and wonder if she’s wearing panties.

78 iossarian  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:55:55am

re: #74 iossarian

A more succinct way of explaining my thoughts is: “turn the other cheek is a highly commendable moderate position, but it doesn’t win you any playground fights”.

79 darthstar  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:55:56am

re: #73 Gus 802

For sure. And as true and good American patriots they’ll do so without health benefits.

Do they have cable and wireless outside of Modesto?

Lots of cables…you can hear them buzzing overhead while you’re in the field.

80 darthstar  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:56:34am

re: #77 darthstar

Fucked up the blockquote on that somehow…sorry…My response starts with “Of course…”

81 webevintage  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:59:08am

Two stories today about 2 very different types of follows of Jesus.
Randell Terry is a “Christian” who makes his living fomenting hate on a daily basis.

Colbert is a Christian who makes his living making the comfortable in this country uncomfortable thus adhering to the social justice teachings of the Catholic Church.

Chu asks Colbert why, of all the issues he could talk about, or bring attention to, he decided to get involved in this issue. Colbert, for the first time today, drops out of character.
“I like talking about people who don’t have any power…I feel the need to speak for those who can’t speak for themselves….We ask them to come and work, and then we ask them to leave again. They suffer, and have no rights.”
He also quotes Matthew 25:40: “The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’”


[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com…]

82 Liberal Classic  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:00:08pm

re: #63 darthstar

What they really need is Lewis Black to address congress…in character.

Let’s get Lewis Black, Penn Gillette, and Gilbert Gottfried. Maybe we can keep Congress entertained. Bread and circus sauce for the goose, to mix metaphors. It’s a shame Richard Pryor and Sam Kinison are no longer with us.

83 elizajane  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:00:32pm

On the Koran-burning thing. Six men arrested yesterday in Gateshead, UK, for filming themselves burning Korans and posting the video on the internet, presumably so that it would be readily available to terrorist recruiters:

[Link: www.bbc.co.uk…]

Proving once again the old adage: show people a really, really stupid way to draw attention to themselves from people who’d like to kill them, and they will jump all over it.

84 darthstar  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:01:03pm

re: #82 Liberal Classic

Let’s get Lewis Black, Penn Gillette, and Gilbert Gottfried. Maybe we can keep Congress entertained. Bread and circus sauce for the goose, to mix metaphors. It’s a shame Richard Pryor and Sam Kinison are no longer with us.

One celebrity per hearing. Maybe people will start paying attention to what the congress is doing then.

85 Liberal Classic  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:02:26pm

re: #84 darthstar

Crazy enough it just might work!

86 Gus  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:02:46pm

re: #84 darthstar

One celebrity per hearing. Maybe people will start paying attention to what the congress is doing then.

A reality show in the making! Hmm, if only I was in LA.

/

87 Liberal Classic  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:03:58pm

re: #86 Gus 802

Congress is the greatest reality show ever. Sadly, CSPAN doesn’t show the naughty bits.

88 Liet_Kynes  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:09:16pm

re: #1 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

re: #9 imp_62

FYI

I want to get out ahead of this militant terminology before it is further taken the wrong way.

The Church Militant IS a name for the Church on earth. This goes back to the foundations of Christianity with many of the Church Fathers using such military terminology. St. Augustine uses the terminology to great extent.

The Church, as the Mystical Body of Christ exists as Christ’s ongoing presence in the world and carries out His ongoing mandate to preach the Kingdom of Heaven, find the lost, forgive sins, heal the sick, and stand in solidarity with the poor and abused. The members of the Body are considered to be, after a fashion, at war with sin, the fallen angels, and “the world”. However this is never to be understood as a violent outwardly offensively aggressive struggle (ie. the concept of an offensive “holy war” is rejected.)

Basically we can put it into modern words as as an army of “priests/prophets/kings” who give their lives to each other and their neighbors in mutual charity and who take up the arms of prayer, fasting, and almsgiving against the ills of the world. In the early days of Christianity, the “front line shock troops” were considered to be the ascetics and monastics who spent their lives in total prayer.

The Church is classically divided into three aspects:

The Church Militant : The Church on earth.
The Church Suffering: The Church as she is constituted of those members who are undergoing theosis in Purgatory.
The Church Triumphant: The Church as she stands comprised of those who “have finished the race and won the prize”, aka the saints in heaven.

FYI for those that are paying attention, Islam borrowed massively from Christianity and Judaism. The concept of jihad is based on such ideas, though it obviously has an aggressive offensive nature that legitimized conversion by the sword.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

89 shutdown  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:09:36pm

re: #75 Gus 802

Oh. Since we’re on the subject. While they’re all out there working in the fields listening to Glenn Beck on their Ipods if any woman gets pregnant they won’t be able to have an abortion because it will be illegal. Even if a woman is raped according to the new face of the GOP.

Care for some grapes of wrath?

Grapes? Depends who picked ‘em…

90 shutdown  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:11:18pm

re: #88 Liet_Kynes

I did not know all that. Thanks. However, I was referring to the bit about burning heretics, not whatever the terminology would be use for its justification.

91 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:11:35pm

re: #89 imp_62

Grapes? Depends who picked ‘em…

And twitter grapes just give out a little whine when you crush them…

;)

92 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:14:41pm

re: #88 Liet_Kynes

Thanks for the clarification. I do believe Terry hasn’t gotten that particular memo however.

93 Jimmah  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:15:20pm

I give these pictures in the fear of God; Jesus and Mary are not afraid of the truth. Jesus and Mary know that the Church militant should be just that, and that at times words and deeds that are not “politically correct” or “tolerant” must be used in the fight against evil, and the culture of death, and those who seek to destroy Truth and the Church.

Definitely a case of jihad-envy going on here, among other unpleasant things.

94 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:15:48pm

re: #88 Liet_Kynes

FYI for those that are paying attention, Islam borrowed massively from Christianity and Judaism. The concept of jihad is based on such ideas, though it obviously has an aggressive offensive nature that legitimized conversion by the sword.

Whereas the Christian Church never legitimized violence using scripture.

///

95 Jimmah  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:17:17pm

Abba anger over Danish far-right’s use of Mamma Mia:

Abba stars Benny Andersson and Bjorn Ulvaeus have criticised the far-right Danish People’s Party (DF) for using their hit Mamma Mia at rallies.

The band had threatened to sue the DF, saying the band never allowed their music to be used politically.

But their record company, Universal, later said the DF had agreed to stop using the 1976 hit.

The youth wing of the party had changed the lyrics of the song to Mamma Pia, in honour of their leader Pia Kjaersgaard.

The anti-immigration DF is the third largest party in the Danish parliament.

The DF had played Mamma Mia at rallies and meetings - a version of the song had also been performed for Ms Pia by members of the party’ youth wing, say reports.

Mr Andersson said he found out about its use when he was contacted by a left-wing pressure group who asked whether he supported the party’s policies.

96 AlexRogan  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:19:27pm

re: #7 Charles

The #tcot idiots are ranting like crazy about Stephen Colbert. Tons of comments like this:

Colbert is a American citizen just as they (presumably) are, with the same rights to be heard by his representatives in Congress (albeit his appearance is a lot more high-profile, being in character)…

97 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:20:29pm

re: #70 RogueOne

Without hyperbole, you don’t actually have a point. Yes, some people are talking about the appropriateness of Colbert’s appearance. Others are talking about the issues he raised.

Even just this Yahoo story gets across the basic points just fine.

[Link: news.yahoo.com…]

98 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:20:52pm

I’m starting the weekend a little early, enjoy your weekend people.

99 What, me worry?  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:22:21pm

re: #88 Liet_Kynes

I don’t mean to insult, but the problem I have with all of it (and I am not a Christian) is the lack of focus on God. There is no God, but God. Not the Church nor its members nor its saints and not Jesus. No thing, including man can be God or take Its place. I think Christianity is very much pagan-like.

Muslims do not pray to idols. They don’t even pray to Mohammad. I don’t know much about Islam, but this much I know. Religiously, spiritually, they are much closer to Judaism than Christianity.

Jihad to most Muslims is an inner struggle, not one of violence against your fellow wo/man.

100 AlexRogan  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:23:59pm

re: #68 darthstar

I can see a bunch of fat-assed teabaggers picking strawberries in the hot summer sun now…oh, wait, they all passed out…never mind.

I posted this downstairs…enjoy:

Youtube Video

;-)

101 CuriousLurker  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:24:09pm
Anti-abortion religious fanatic Randall Terry (founder of the militant Operation Rescue) has a new cause: he’s launching a cross-country campaign to destroy Qurans.

Because that’s what Jesus and Mary want him to do.

They should take some lessons from this man, David Hatwig, who I happen to think is a pretty wonderful example of a Christian and restores some of my faith in my home state of Texas.

102 Jimmah  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:25:32pm

re: #88 Liet_Kynes

The Church Militant IS a name for the Church on earth. This goes back to the foundations of Christianity with many of the Church Fathers using such military terminology. St. Augustine uses the terminology to great extent.

It’s pretty clear that Terry wants the church to be ‘militant’ in every sense of the word, including the most well-known sense.

103 CuriousLurker  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:26:48pm

re: #101 CuriousLurker

They should take some lessons from this man, David Hatwig Hartwig, who I happen to think is a pretty wonderful example of a Christian and restores some of my faith in my home state of Texas.

PIMF

104 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:27:12pm

Texas Board Approves Warning Textbook Makers Against ‘Pro-Islamic, Anti-Christian Distortions’

The Texas State Board of Education today passed a resolution warning textbook publishers to scrub their books of “gross pro-Islamic, anti-Christian” bias. The vote was 7 to 6.

The board passed the nonbinding resolution after more than three hours of debate.

105 shutdown  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:27:14pm

re: #99 marjoriemoon

I don’t mean to insult, but the problem I have with all of it (and I am not a Christian) is the lack of focus on God. There is no God, but God. Not the Church nor its members nor its saints and not Jesus. No thing, including man can be God or take Its place. I think Christianity is very much pagan-like.

Muslims do not pray to idols. They don’t even pray to Mohammad. I don’t know much about Islam, but this much I know. Religiously, spiritually, they are much closer to Judaism than Christianity.

Jihad to most Muslims is an inner struggle, not one of violence against your fellow wo/man.

I think theology - Christian, Muslim, and Jewish - is far more complicated and complex than you can adequately portray here. Dangerous waters and I don’t suggest you tarry. Plus, unless you have an advanced degree in comparative theology, I don’t think you are in a position to posit declarative statements about Jihad.

106 shutdown  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:27:31pm

back later

107 Jimmah  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:28:38pm

Can anyone please click on this and tell me if this is viewable outside the US? I may do a page on it if it is.

Youtube Video
108 AlexRogan  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:28:52pm

re: #104 Killgore Trout

Texas Board Approves Warning Textbook Makers Against ‘Pro-Islamic, Anti-Christian Distortions’

The wingnuts are feeling their oats…let’s hope the textbook publishing industry collectively tells the TBOE to go pound sand on this.

109 shutdown  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:29:22pm

re: #107 Jimmah

not even viewable in the US

110 Four More Tears  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:29:30pm

re: #107 Jimmah

Can anyone please click on this and tell me if this is viewable outside the US? I may do a page on it if it is.


[Video]

I can tell you it’s not viewable inside the US…

111 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:30:25pm

re: #108 talon_262

The wingnuts are feeling their oats…let’s hope the textbook publishing industry collectively tells the TBOE to go pound sand on this.

I wouldn’t count on that. From the bottom of the article….

Although the resolution was nonbinding, Texas school board decisions garner attention because, as one of the country’s largest markets, textbook makers have traditionally written their books, sold nationally, to the Texas standards. (Although there’s an argument that Texas no longer has so much sway.)

“Publishers are listening today,” said one conservative board member, David Bradley. “And they’re very sensitive to it.

112 AlexRogan  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:31:05pm

re: #107 Jimmah

Can anyone please click on this and tell me if this is viewable outside the US? I may do a page on it if it is.


[Video]

“This video contains content from Channel 4, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds.”

113 What, me worry?  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:31:46pm

re: #105 imp_62

I think theology - Christian, Muslim, and Jewish - is far more complicated and complex than you can adequately portray here. Dangerous waters and I don’t suggest you tarry. Plus, unless you have an advanced degree in comparative theology, I don’t think you are in a position to posit declarative statements about Jihad.

Regarding Jihad, the Temple I used to belong to did a lot of interfaith work. The imam would talk to our congregation. This is what was described to me by Muslims I met. That Jihad is an inner struggle, not an outer one.

114 KingKenrod  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:36:40pm

re: #95 Jimmah

Abba anger over Danish far-right’s use of Mamma Mia:

Whenever the subject of ABBA comes up, I like to link to this Bjorn Ulvaeus interview from a few years ago. He’s a strong supporter of Enlightenment values and keeping religion out of the state

Because I have noticed how religion is becoming a power in politics and is also competing with the scientific way of thinking. That worries me. I have always been a huge friend of “the Enlightenment” and of science.
…
I miss those days when people believed in science and common sense as in the Fifties and Sixties. Now fundamentalism and contempt for science seems to be spreading. I believe that religion should be totally separated from the state. That’s not the way it is today, not even in Sweden. For hundreds of years we have struggled to achieve a secular society, and now we seem to be going backwards. I find it quite astonishing that more women don’t stand up to these questions.

[Link: icethesite.com…]

116 CuriousLurker  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:38:18pm

Gah, work. BBL

117 Stanley Sea  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:40:28pm

re: #107 Jimmah

nope, copyrighted

118 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:41:04pm

I’m posting this here so that people know the truth behind the Cato banning, because certain numbskulls are trying to make a big deal of it. This was my answer to RememberTonyC in another thread…

***

re: #231 _RememberTonyC

maybe he needs to do some introspection … being a dick is one thing, but intentionally taunting Charles is flat stupid. he had many chances to behave himself.

Not only that — he actually did a full-on flounce at least twice and announced he was done with LGF — but I didn’t block his account, because I wanted to give him a chance to reconsider. At least twice. And once he followed this up with an angry email to me.

I gave him many more chances than I’d give most people. In return, he acted like a complete asshole for no reason. I’ll give people chances when they’ve been at LGF for a long time, but I will only be pushed so far.

119 Jimmah  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:42:02pm

Thanks, folks. (I meant to say “outside of the UK” of course.) Shame it isn’t viewable though - lots of good stuff on end-timers and their poisonous influence in places like the middle east and Africa.

120 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:42:47pm

I feel so old now.

121 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:44:06pm

Why hasn’t he been excommunicated?

122 Winny Spencer  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:46:38pm

re: #95 Jimmah

As long as they don’t use Super Trouper, I think it’s fine.

123 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:46:47pm

re: #118 Charles

Some people just don’t know when to not cross a line, or step away from the keyboard.
C’est la vie.

124 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:47:17pm

re: #104 Killgore Trout

I can’t wait to see how they propose to deal with the Crusades or the development of mathematics and sciences during the Dark Ages in Europe (but which flourished in South Asia and the Middle East.

It’s revisionist history to ignore or understate the role of Islam just as surely as it would be revisionist history to overstate the role of Christianity. Each played a role - and ignoring that role and their interrelationship is at our collective peril.

125 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:47:40pm

re: #123 Varek Raith

Some people just don’t know when to not cross a line, or step away from the keyboard.
C’est la vie.

Thus a reason to keep a low-level Ewok infestation around for taking one’s frustrations out on???

;)

126 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:48:04pm

re: #125 oaktree

Thus a reason to keep a low-level Ewok infestation around for taking one’s frustrations out on???

;)

Exactly.

127 Jimmah  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:48:05pm

re: #122 Winny Spencer

As long as they don’t use Super Trouper, I think it’s fine.

Heh. That song mentions Glasgow - my first hint that ABBA weren’t all bad.

128 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:49:00pm

By the way, for the past few days, several of the chuckleheads from the stalker blogs have been trying to register sock puppet accounts here.

129 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:49:48pm

re: #125 oaktree

Thus a reason to keep a low-level Ewok infestation around for taking one’s frustrations out on???

;)

But why base your forcefield guarding your superweapon in the same place?

130 SilentAlfa  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:50:23pm

re: #105 imp_62

I don’t think you are in a position to posit declarative statements about Jihad.

And are you suggesting you know more about jihad? The proper jihad is waged to conquer oneself, not others. I don’t believe an advanced degree is required to know this, that would be like saying that you need an advanced degree in biology to accept that evolution is true.

131 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:50:55pm

re: #129 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

But why base your forcefield guarding your superweapon in the same place?

That and the Rebels should’ve just sent some bombers to bomb the generator.
Thanks, George Lucas.

132 Winny Spencer  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:52:20pm

re: #127 Jimmah

:) I have a vested interest too, in the sense that Abba is my country’s most famous musical export. Thus, I simply have to support them, and Super Trouper is actually a nice song.

I also perpetually defend the quality of IKEA furniture.

133 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:53:09pm

re: #131 Varek Raith

That and the Rebels should’ve just sent some bombers to bomb the generator.
Thanks, George Lucas.

The facility wasn’t really that large either. Wouldn’t it have made more sense to build several smaller destroyer sized ships capable of creating a field with the same effect?

134 Jimmah  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:54:06pm

re: #128 Charles

By the way, for the past few days, several of the chuckleheads from the stalker blogs have been trying to register sock puppet accounts here.

Their fixation level is epic.

135 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:55:41pm

re: #133 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The facility wasn’t really that large either. Wouldn’t it have made more sense to build several smaller destroyer sized ships capable of creating a field with the same effect?

If it’s not monolithic and obtrusive, it’s not *IMPERIAL*.

Every doomsday weapon must be bigger and more bad-ass than the last one.

Flip-side is something like the StarFlight “Black Egg”. Nothing says “earth-shattering kaboom” like a subtle and portable planet buster.

136 Interesting Times  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:56:48pm

re: #134 Jimmah

Their fixation level is epic.

Pity they aren’t under the jurisdiction of this:

Cyberstalkers threatened with a crackdown

137 What, me worry?  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:57:46pm

re: #118 Charles

It makes me uncomfy to talk about people I like and I’ve always liked Cato. You did too and you gave him many chances and accepted his apology on lots of occasions.

Sadly, Cato has a mean streak and he lashes out at others. I assume he’s aware of this. He’s also sweet, funny, clever and intelligent, but he’s mean - hurtful mean and I don’t know where that comes from. When he turns “on”, he has no off switch.

He had no right to say what he did to you last night, Charles. It was just meanness and came out of no where. And he asked you to ban him outright so…

138 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:57:46pm

re: #128 Charles

By the way, for the past few days, several of the chuckleheads from the stalker blogs have been trying to register sock puppet accounts here.

I am very much not surprised.

They miss us so much, we are all they can talk about.

139 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:58:43pm

re: #135 oaktree

If it’s not monolithic and obtrusive, it’s not *IMPERIAL*.

Every doomsday weapon must be bigger and more bad-ass than the last one.

Flip-side is something like the StarFlight “Black Egg”. Nothing says “earth-shattering kaboom” like a subtle and portable planet buster.

The Emperor was a big dummy.

140 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 12:58:58pm

re: #137 marjoriemoon

It makes me uncomfy to talk about people I like and I’ve always liked Cato. You did too and you gave him many chances and accepted his apology on lots of occasions.

Sadly, Cato has a mean streak and he lashes out at others. I assume he’s aware of this. He’s also sweet, funny, clever and intelligent, but he’s mean - hurtful mean and I don’t know where that comes from. When he turns “on”, he has no off switch.

He had no right to say what he did to you last night, Charles. It was just meanness and came out of no where. And he asked you to ban him outright so…

Actually in the past several weeks he just changed a lot. I won’t post private mails between us, but I can say for certain, that something seriously changed in him.

141 Jimmah  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:00:26pm

re: #132 Winny Spencer

:) I have a vested interest too, in the sense that Abba is my country’s most famous musical export. Thus, I simply have to support them, and Super Trouper is actually a nice song.

I also perpetually defend the quality of IKEA furniture.

I like IKEA furniture, although I kinda dread the shopping experience. Ice and I assembled an IKEA sofa the other day - took 5 minutes, including fitting the covers. It looks good, is comfy, and comes in at about half the price I’d have paid for a similar product elsewhere. Can’t argue with that.

142 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:03:24pm

re: #141 Jimmah

I’m on yahoo right now. It would be nice to catch up.

143 Romantic Heretic  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:04:34pm

re: #1 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The Church Militant? It won’t be much longer till he decides to skip the koran burnings and go straight for the heretics.

If that’s the case I’ll just remember that a person’s status in Hell is determined by the size of the honor guard he or she takes with him. *evil grin*

144 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:04:35pm

re: #141 Jimmah

I like IKEA furniture, although I kinda dread the shopping experience. Ice and I assembled an IKEA sofa the other day - took 5 minutes, including fitting the covers. It looks good, is comfy, and comes in at about half the price I’d have paid for a similar product elsewhere. Can’t argue with that.

Yep. And if the Emperor was smart he could have ordered an effective modular battlestation from IKEA and saved tons of Imperial credits for other projects like pest control and more effective troop training.

145 What, me worry?  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:06:24pm

re: #140 LudwigVanQuixote

Actually in the past several weeks he just changed a lot. I won’t post private mails between us, but I can say for certain, that something seriously changed in him.

I don’t know. I don’t like to see people leave, but Charles’ name is behind this blog, not mine. And I know I wouldn’t put up with half the shit he puts up with now. If I had a blog, I’d let about 5 people post :p

146 What, me worry?  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:06:59pm

re: #140 LudwigVanQuixote

Actually in the past several weeks he just changed a lot. I won’t post private mails between us, but I can say for certain, that something seriously changed in him.

I why don’t I have your email. Click me baby.

147 Jimmah  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:07:06pm

re: #138 LudwigVanQuixote

I am very much not surprised.

They miss us so much, we are all they can talk about.

Yep. I hear they recently reached their 0.5 millionth comment about how irrelevant LGF is. This certainly proves something, just not what they think it does.

148 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:08:08pm

re: #144 oaktree

Yep. And if the Emperor was smart he could have ordered an effective modular battlestation from IKEA and saved tons of Imperial credits for other projects like pest control and more effective troop training.

He’d have been better off using simple conscription and fielding huge regiments using volley fire for all the good his “crack” stormtrooper legions were.

149 Jimmah  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:09:28pm

re: #142 LudwigVanQuixote

I’m on yahoo right now. It would be nice to catch up.

Ice is doing a few things just now - maybe later on, though!

150 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:09:46pm

re: #148 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

you mean these guys?

Youtube Video
151 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:10:47pm

re: #150 Dreggas

you mean these guys?

[Video]

No, those guys actually hit the target they aimed at.

152 Ericus58  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:12:24pm

re: #140 LudwigVanQuixote

Actually in the past several weeks he just changed a lot. I won’t post private mails between us, but I can say for certain, that something seriously changed in him.

I do hope that Cato takes care - his postings of late were really really off and edgy.

153 Gus  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:12:48pm

re: #147 Jimmah

Yep. I hear they recently reached their 0.5 millionth comment about how irrelevant LGF is. This certainly proves something, just not what they think it does.

Trying to understand them is like trying to make sense of someone with schizophrenia. They’re are rather desperate bunch and can’t go past one day without thinking about us or what’s going on here. Monday through Sunday, morning, noon and night, and even on holidays. Charles and the rest of us live in their heads. Clearly we are relevant to them otherwise they would simply move on.

154 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:13:34pm

re: #146 marjoriemoon

I why don’t I have your email. Click me baby.

mailed you!

155 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:13:37pm

re: #148 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

He’d have been better off using simple conscription and fielding huge regiments using volley fire for all the good his “crack” stormtrooper legions were.

For the cost of the DS, in credits and materiale, he could’ve built thousands of Star Destroyers.

156 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:13:54pm

re: #149 Jimmah

Ice is doing a few things just now - maybe later on, though!

Groovy!

157 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:14:04pm

re: #153 Gus 802

Trying to understand them is like trying to make sense of someone with schizophrenia. They’re are rather desperate bunch and can’t go past one day without thinking about us or what’s going on here. Monday through Sunday, morning, noon and night, and even on holidays. Charles and the rest of us live in their heads. Clearly we are relevant to them otherwise they would simply move on.

I call dibs on being the voice that says “Hey, did I leave the stove on?” right when they’re out in the middle of a dinner date.

158 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:14:14pm

re: #152 Ericus58

I do hope that Cato takes care - his postings of late were really really off and edgy.

I don’t know and it is not my place to speculate.

159 Jimmah  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:15:10pm

re: #140 LudwigVanQuixote

Actually in the past several weeks he just changed a lot. I won’t post private mails between us, but I can say for certain, that something seriously changed in him.

Talking about sudden changes - WTF exactly happened to McSpiff? Up until the last week of August he seemed (to me at any rate) to be a normal poster with reasonable views. Then something happened, and he suddenly started spouting stalkerish memes about how LGF was being ruined by people like myself, ice and others. Turned into a regular mini-bagua (baguette?) overnight.

160 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:16:15pm

re: #155 Varek Raith

For the cost of the DS, in credits and materiale, he could’ve built thousands of Star Destroyers.

And it would have been a thousand times more effective. A single Star Destroyer was supposedly capable of wiping all life off a planet, but at least then it could be reseeded and used again later. All you got with the Death Star was a mobile asteroid belt machine, and even then, it only worked once before it got wrecked.

161 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:16:16pm

re: #148 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

He’d have been better off using simple conscription and fielding huge regiments using volley fire for all the good his “crack” stormtrooper legions were.

Might have also helped to have armed them with something other than refurbished WW2 equipment…

(Real world commentary - at the start of the US civil war there was such an armament shortage that a lot of issued weapons were conversions done to obsolete smoothbores (convert from flint to percussion cap and also in some cases also converting to rifled-musket) or buying quantities of obsolete arms from Europe. Post Civil-War the US Army had lots of arms to sell, and also was converting muzzle-loaders into breech-loaders to save on purchasing new arms. The US really didn’t start catching up again to Europe until just before WW1 — and even then they needed to buy/borrow machine guns and field artillery.)

162 Gus  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:16:35pm

re: #157 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I call dibs on being the voice that says “Hey, did I leave the stove on?” right when they’re out in the middle of a dinner date.

That’s funny. I have no doubt in my mind that they actually go out for dinner with friends sometimes and are drifting off into space thinking about LGF. The obsession is so high that they probably wake up in the morning and their thought soon drift into thinking about LGF. Most of those will immediately navigate to LGF and catch up with their daily obsession and Rick will search for some read meat to through at his fellow patients.

163 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:17:20pm

re: #141 Jimmah

I like IKEA furniture, although I kinda dread the shopping experience. Ice and I assembled an IKEA sofa the other day - took 5 minutes, including fitting the covers. It looks good, is comfy, and comes in at about half the price I’d have paid for a similar product elsewhere. Can’t argue with that.

I like assembling furniture. It feels like I am making something.

I recently purchased a new computer chair - it’s actually one of those leather swivel executive chairs with a high back and lumbar support.

I call it my dark lord of the sith / James Bond villian/ Gop chair because it really is the sort of thing that you would swivel to face some victim in while stroking a cat.

Alas, I have an adorable rat terrier, and it kind of blows the image - but, I love the chair and it was fun to assemble.

164 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:18:06pm

re: #159 Jimmah

Talking about sudden changes - WTF exactly happened to McSpiff? Up until the last week of August he seemed (to me at any rate) to be a normal poster with reasonable views. Then something happened, and he suddenly started spouting stalkerish memes about how LGF was being ruined by people like myself, ice and others. Turned into a regular mini-bagua (baguette?) overnight.

He flipped out at me some time ago. I don’t know and I don’t care.

165 Liet_Kynes  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:19:55pm

90 imp_62

That is the point. The military terminology doesn’t justify burning heretics. How the state is to deal with heretics is argued and dealt with elsewhere but not by the military terminology.

It is though, and this is important, to understand that in the first few centuries of the existence of Islam, it was treated as a Christian heresy, not as a wholly independent theological movement.

92 Krager (Proud to be Kafier

I don’t know. One would have to have the fuller speech by Terry. Is he or is he not suggesting to inform ourselves about Islam, and then then to “combat” its teachings through public debate and through prayer, penance, and almsgiving? I don’t know.

94 Wrenchwench

I never said that. Violence is not per say against scripture. A purely pacifist position is actually considered to be heretical and ethically unjust. For example, an individual has an ethical responsibility to prevent the murder of his neighbor, where it is possible, extending even to the shedding of blood/ offering his life for the life of his neighbor.

99 Marjoriemoon

I would agree that in several aspects Islam is closer to Judaism than Christianity, though spiritually (when you look at spiritual practices not exactly whom one is praying to) I find I lot of similarity with Muslims - especially the praying five times a day (which comes out of Judiasm by way of Christian monasticism).

I think you do not see the focus on God because we live in a period where the Church is often considered to be an afterthought and there exists a separation between God and the community of believers.

Up and until the Protestant Reformation, the Christian understanding was that God, through Christ brought humanity into a position where man’s eschatological fulfillment was to have a real participation in the life of God. It is not simply that Christ became man but through the incarnation allows mankind to become “wedded” to God and “to by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature” (2 Peter 1:4).

The Reformers thought that the insight that St. Paul had was that all men (pious jew and unrighteous gentile) were sinners and were thus damned unless they were elected by Christ for salvation (especially true for Calvinists whose beliefs make up a lot of modern fundamentalism especially the theocratic type). That, for people living prior to the Reformation, especially during the rise of Islam, would not be correct. The consideration is that the great insight of St. Paul is the identification of the Church with the person of Jesus (Acts 26). If you use that lens, Paul’s letters will make a lot more sense.

As such, even to this day, the Church (of the Catholic/Orthodox/Oriental Orthodox) stripes consider there to be a unity between the Church and Christ so that the Church represents in a real way Christ in the present world so that the fullness of Christ’s salvific mystery belongs also in an inseparably manner to the Church, which is His body and He her head. The below is a really good modern expression of the ancient understanding of how Christ and the Church are united.
[Link: www.vatican.va…]

166 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:21:29pm

Well, the boss says we can cut out early, and I’m not one to argue with the boss in this particular case.

167 Jimmah  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:22:08pm

re: #153 Gus 802

Trying to understand them is like trying to make sense of someone with schizophrenia. They’re are rather desperate bunch and can’t go past one day without thinking about us or what’s going on here. Monday through Sunday, morning, noon and night, and even on holidays. Charles and the rest of us live in their heads. Clearly we are relevant to them otherwise they would simply move on.

Yep. It’s clear that getting banned from LGF was the most (tragically) momentous event in their (clearly) deprived lives. They’ll never get over it. They quite literally need professional help at this point.

168 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:22:40pm

re: #145 marjoriemoon

That’s just it - it’s Charles’ blog and we just post here. If someone doesn’t like what Charles posts or the slant of his postings, they’re free to go elsewhere. No one is keeping them here.

I just don’t get why people have to go out in a blaze of glory. I guess they need their egos stroked or something.

Fixating on a blog or anyone like this just can’t be healthy.

Stalker blogs? The amount of energy devoted to that kind of thing is just astounding. There are far more constructive things to spend your time on. There are real issues that need addressing. Try focusing on ‘em.

I don’t agree with all of Charles’ posts or every topic he chooses to post. I don’t come out and actively demand changes in Charles’ posts or slogging off in a huff because this is what Charles believes. I don’t demand that Charles posts more on X because that’s what he used to do. Heck, Charles used to spend quite a bit of time posting on cycling. He adapted and changed the blog to meet his changing interests and focuses.

Maybe more people should adapt and change instead of demanding the same. Besides, it isn’t like Charles isn’t already providing one-stop shopping for those other issues - the spinoffs and featured pages enable anyone to blog and start the conversation on their own.

And I really don’t understand the personal antagonism towards Charles - that visceral hatred. I really don’t. Folks just need to chill.

169 Interesting Times  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:23:39pm

re: #159 Jimmah

Talking about sudden changes - WTF exactly happened to McSpiff? Up until the last week of August he seemed (to me at any rate) to be a normal poster with reasonable views. Then something happened, and he suddenly started spouting stalkerish memes about how LGF was being ruined by people like myself, ice and others. Turned into a regular mini-bagua (baguette?) overnight.

See the msg I just sent via Youtube; it might help explain things if my guess is correct.

re: #164 LudwigVanQuixote

He flipped out at me some time ago. I don’t know and I don’t care.

I remember that. The obsessive grudge-bearing on his part was ridiculous, as if you were some kind of punching bag proxy for all that was wrong with his life.

170 Gus  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:27:15pm

re: #167 Jimmah

Yep. It’s clear that getting banned from LGF was the most (tragically) momentous event in their (clearly) deprived lives. They’ll never get over it. They quite literally need professional help at this point.

Some of them are on day 730 (2 years since being banned). Others are on day 1,095 (3 years). For those on their third year of stalking if you assume an average of 1 hour a day (at a minimum) that’s 1,095 hours or 45.625 straight days of compulsively loathing about LGF.

171 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:28:47pm

re: #165 Liet_Kynes

It is though, and this is important, to understand that in the first few centuries of the existence of Islam, it was treated as a Christian heresy, not as a wholly independent theological movement.

Please cite a source for this claim.


I don’t know. One would have to have the fuller speech by Terry. Is he or is he not suggesting to inform ourselves about Islam, and then then to “combat” its teachings through public debate and through prayer, penance, and almsgiving? I don’t know.

Wow. You seriously think that he might mean to fight it through charity?

172 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:30:51pm

re: #165 Liet_Kynes

Say what?

173 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:31:18pm

re: #170 Gus 802

Some of them are on day 730 (2 years since being banned). Others are on day 1,095 (3 years). For those on their third year of stalking if you assume an average of 1 hour a day (at a minimum) that’s 1,095 hours or 45.625 straight days of compulsively loathing about LGF.

Personally, I find that they are a good barometer of the far right. They are worth looking at in the same way that one looks scientifically at a particularly loathsome insect.

I don’t know random boneheads on Hotair or Palinites, but I do “know” fools like Snork. This allows me to get an understanding of what makes these idiots on that end of the spectrum tick.

It also isn’t really deep. It is just the simple frustration of failed individuals who feel the need to assert control over a life that ran them over years ago.

It isn’t just that they are ignorant. It is that they are scared and feel helpless.

Behold the GOP base!

174 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:32:01pm

re: #99 marjoriemoon

I think Christianity is very much pagan-like.

Against my better judgement I’ll take it one step further. I think Communion is a ritualized substitute for cannibalism.

175 Jimmah  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:32:25pm

re: #169 publicityStunted

See the msg I just sent via Youtube; it might help explain things if my guess is correct.

re: #164 LudwigVanQuixote

I remember that. The obsessive grudge-bearing on his part was ridiculous, as if you were some kind of punching bag proxy for all that was wrong with his life.

Thanks. Just read that - yeah I think that definitely had something to do with it. His ‘conversion’ really was strikingly sudden - only a few days before his crazy attack on us for ‘trying to drive Spare off the site’ by ‘suggesting that he was a potential stalker’, he himself was saying things like this about Spare:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

How weirdly fucked up is that?

176 Jack Burton  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:32:51pm

re: #170 Gus 802

Some of them are on day 730 (2 years since being banned). Others are on day 1,095 (3 years). For those on their third year of stalking if you assume an average of 1 hour a day (at a minimum) that’s 1,095 hours or 45.625 straight days of compulsively loathing about LGF.

Wasn’t there a lot of moonbat bannings before that? The OG stalker blog was a lefty site IIRC.

177 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:33:04pm

re: #163 LudwigVanQuixote

I like assembling furniture. It feels like I am making something.

I recently purchased a new computer chair - it’s actually one of those leather swivel executive chairs with a high back and lumbar support.

I call it my dark lord of the sith / James Bond villian/ Gop chair because it really is the sort of thing that you would swivel to face some victim in while stroking a cat.

Alas, I have an adorable rat terrier, and it kind of blows the image - but, I love the chair and it was fun to assemble.

I have one of those (the chair that it.) Primarily serves as a cat bed since sitting in it caused two cats to compete for the limited lap space. And with a laptop now I generally end up using the coffee table and couch in the other room most of the time now.

178 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:33:37pm

re: #169 publicityStunted

See the msg I just sent via Youtube; it might help explain things if my guess is correct.

re: #164 LudwigVanQuixote

I remember that. The obsessive grudge-bearing on his part was ridiculous, as if you were some kind of punching bag proxy for all that was wrong with his life.

Well that is the issue with so many of them. Many people consider their web persona to be a manifestation of their preferred selves. Fighting a nic is for some folks worse than fighting a person. You are fighting the person they imagine themselves being.

179 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:33:50pm

re: #177 oaktree

I have one of those (the chair that it.) Primarily serves as a cat bed since sitting in it caused two cats to compete for the limited lap space. And with a laptop now I generally end up using the coffee table and couch in the other room most of the time now.

Way to give in to the fascist kitteh…

180 Interesting Times  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:34:17pm

re: #173 LudwigVanQuixote

It isn’t just that they are ignorant. It is that they are scared and feel helpless.

Behold the GOP base!

It’s debased.

181 Gus  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:34:44pm

re: #176 ArchangelMichael

Wasn’t there a lot of moonbat bannings before that? The OG stalker blog was a lefty site IIRC.

What’s OG? I know Nodrog was one of the first stalkers and he was left so to speak. I think he finally gave up and moved on. Is he OG?

182 Gus  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:35:36pm

Must get ready for an errand or two.

BIAB

183 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:35:36pm

re: #169 publicityStunted

See the msg I just sent via Youtube; it might help explain things if my guess is correct.

re: #164 LudwigVanQuixote

I remember that. The obsessive grudge-bearing on his part was ridiculous, as if you were some kind of punching bag proxy for all that was wrong with his life.

Also you should mail me.

184 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:36:36pm

Sweet.
I’m a tropical storm!
[Link: www.nhc.noaa.gov…]

185 Why I Never!  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:38:52pm

re: #174 goddamnedfrank

Against my better judgement I’ll take it one step further. I think Communion is a ritualized substitute for cannibalism.

Of course it is. It almost exactly parallels Dionysian (and other, older) myths and rituals— involving a victim, a blood sacrifice, and the ritualistic dismemberment and cannibalisation of the victim, followed three days (or some indeterminate time later) by a resurrection.

Walter Burkhert’s book Homo Necans is good on this IIRC.

186 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:39:47pm

re: #179 Varek Raith

Way to give in to the fascist kitteh…

heh. I know about Feline Overlord assessments. ;)

Besides, the cat that did not get lap space tended to go sit in front of the monitor and give me the evil eye for not having a bigger lap.

187 Why I Never!  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:39:59pm

re: #180 publicityStunted

It’s debased.

haha!
General hello, hope everyone is doing well— be back after some wine!

188 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:40:50pm

re: #187 iceweasel

haha!
General hello, hope everyone is doing well— be back after some wine!

ELITIST!
.
.
.
Can you bring me some?
:)

189 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:46:59pm

re: #176 ArchangelMichael

Wasn’t there a lot of moonbat bannings before that? The OG stalker blog was a lefty site IIRC.

Not really a lot. A few, but only if they were truly obnoxious. Gordon got away with posting here for years.

190 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:47:18pm

re: #171 Obdicut

Please cite a source for this claim.

Wow. You seriously think that he might mean to fight it through charity?

Note that in Dante’s Hell, Mohamed is in with the schismatics and heretics in the Circle of the Sowers of Discord (Inf. xxviii).

191 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:47:53pm

re: #190 Decatur Deb

Mohamed the mutilated! I remember, I read that when I was twelve. Simultaneously awesome and horrifying.

192 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:48:33pm

I think the discussion of how close Islam or Christianity is to Judaism is fraught with a great deal of difficulty, unless one is very careful about many things.

Both religions have at their core a notion that they are improvements on the original. Both take different aspects of Judaism to emphasize and simplify, while removing others. Both then mix in other influences from other cultures.

I am not writing this to be a discussion of better or worse. They are different faiths despite the common roots.

Christianity focuses much on Jewish notions of the afterlife and then adds a notion of hell which is simply not in the original. They focus less on this world - and that is part of the gnosticism of the faith. However, gnosticism was a home grown Hebrew thing which is utterly apparent from the Dead Sea scrolls. The pagan influences of various Christian ritual are obvious to anyone - however, it is unfair to call what the Christians made of them Pagan per se. For example, I don’t think they worship a Christmas tree or believe that they are burning the yule log so that the sun will come back - even if the pagan roots are clear.

Islam focuses on simplifying Jewish law and practice and throws in Djin and all sorts of other things that are not in the original. I do not think it is fair to say that they are closer to Judaism than Christianity, because while they have a more worldly (in the sense of things you do here mattering) view than Christianity, they too are an amalgamation of a great many beliefs that were present in the region. The meteor, for example, was a pagan thing long before Mohammed came.

193 Jimmah  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:49:34pm

re: #188 Varek Raith

ELITIST!
.
.
.
Can you bring me some?
:)

Knock yersel oot :)

Youtube Video
Youtube Video
194 Jack Burton  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:50:00pm

re: #181 Gus 802

What’s OG? I know Nodrog was one of the first stalkers and he was left so to speak. I think he finally gave up and moved on. Is he OG?

OG = original (as in Ice T’s Original Gangster… just a saying we used in High School).

I thought the original stalker blog was LGFWatch and that place was full of moonbats handwringing over how LGF was run by AIPAC and full of unhinged violent islamophobes.

195 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:51:14pm

re: #189 Charles

Not really a lot. A few, but only if they were truly obnoxious. Gordon got away with posting here for years.

Also to be fair to you.. and for everyone else reading…

It is possible to argue with Charles - in the sense that you form a cogent and well backed up argument. Charles is intellectually honest. He can and does evolove his view. This is not a weakness, but rather the sign of someone who can think.

What he does not like - and no one should blame him - are people who start flipping out at him or acting like children. Everyone does this from time to time, but there is a certain line where clearly respect has been lost.

Over that line, it’s his blog and I don’t blame him one bit.

196 Why I Never!  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:57:35pm

re: #194 ArchangelMichael

OG = original (as in Ice T’s Original Gangster… just a saying we used in High School).

and that place was full of moonbats handwringing over how LGF was run by AIPAC and full of unhinged violent islamophobes.

It had like three batshit obsessives I think. I don’t think anyone gave a shit about that site, except when someone wanted to claim LGF was a hate site based on comments from the genocidal iron fist et al.

197 Why I Never!  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 1:59:05pm

re: #194 ArchangelMichael

hey, am, haven’t seen you in ages! How goes it? 9sorry, meant to add)

198 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 2:02:21pm

re: #12 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I seem to have missed the part where Jesus commanded his followers to go out and destroy all other religions.

It’s right after chapter where Jesus condemns gays, feminists, guys who like to knit and cook, and rock musicians.

199 Jack Burton  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 2:02:42pm

re: #197 iceweasel

hey, am, haven’t seen you in ages! How goes it? 9sorry, meant to add)

Busy (not with anything important but still) and rarely am I home before 2-3am so I’ve been ‘afternoon shift PST’ for awhile. That’s assuming I can stay awake through my post lunch food coma and make it look like I’m at least pretending to work.

200 Liet_Kynes  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 2:03:15pm

113 marjoriemoon– I was described sort of the opposite by Muslims I met during my undergrad (both students and Imams). Jihad, according to what I was taught, is both inner and outward struggle. The extent towards which one takes precedence varies according to the schools of thought. Historically though, the outward struggle of jihad came dominated for centuries. Only after lands were secured did the focus turn increasingly inward. That is when Islam had its golden age (8-13th centures). Do not underestimate the concept that the world needs to be placed under the rule of Allah in Islamic eschatology though.

To be sure though, this concept is found in different forms in both Christian and Jewish eschatology. Jewish eschatology does consider that God will give Israel victory over the nations and she will rule over them (Maimonides, the midieval rabbi considered that Israel would be an equal nation but not rule over the other nations) and lead them in worship. Christian eschatology is a modification on that concept, in particularly that a new world will come were there will no longer be a host of nations, but rather one people – the eschatological Israel/Church, which will rule with and worship Christ (though to be sure Christians considered the Church to be the eschatological Church — an instance of the end of time coming in the midst of time — the “now but not yet” dynamism that is a hallmark of Christian eschatology).

201 Political Atheist  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 2:12:47pm

re: #159 Jimmah

Talking about sudden changes - WTF exactly happened to McSpiff? Up until the last week of August he seemed (to me at any rate) to be a normal poster with reasonable views. Then something happened, and he suddenly started spouting stalkerish memes about how LGF was being ruined by people like myself, ice and others. Turned into a regular mini-bagua (baguette?) overnight.

I am no expert. But I think what happens sometimes is this blog becomes a persons place to vent. If that’s on topic okay maybe. But when outside frustrations color the attitude toward others here, or add anger to the posts, look out. That can be the end of an account.

202 122 Year Old Obama  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 2:14:20pm

re: #102 Jimmah

Nothin’ says “love thy neighbor” like a shotgun blast to the face for not converting.

203 Gus  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 2:15:17pm

re: #196 iceweasel

It had like three batshit obsessives I think. I don’t think anyone gave a shit about that site, except when someone wanted to claim LGF was a hate site based on comments from the genocidal iron fist et al.

Yep. If you add up the 101st Fighting Keyboards period, the War Blogger period, LGF Watch, and a couple of other left stalker type action none of it can compare with the outright nastiness, obesseion and violent rhetoric from the right-wing bloggers and villagers. People also need to remember that Glenn Beck also went crazy over the boiled frog stunt he pulled and that was televised on Fox News.

The Academy Award for Best Stalker Horror Movie goes to The Right Wing.

204 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 2:16:56pm

re: #107 Jimmah

Can anyone please click on this and tell me if this is viewable outside the US? I may do a page on it if it is.


[Video]

blocked here

205 Liet_Kynes  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 2:17:34pm

re: #171 Obdicut

Not a problem. Glad to help you out.

First from the early 20th century THE GREAT HERESIES by Hilaire Belloc (who is a noted 20th century Oxford historian) The Great and Enduring Heresy of Mohammed

[Link: www.ewtn.com…]

Now let me give you St. John of Damascus a Christian who lived under Islamic rule (7-8th centuries) and who considered Islam to be a Christian heresy.
[Link: www.fathersofthechurch.com…]

206 Gus  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 2:19:42pm

BIAW

207 Political Atheist  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 2:19:57pm

re: #195 LudwigVanQuixote

Also to be fair to you.. and for everyone else reading…

It is possible to argue with Charles - in the sense that you form a cogent and well backed up argument. Charles is intellectually honest. He can and does evolove his view. This is not a weakness, but rather the sign of someone who can think.

What he does not like - and no one should blame him - are people who start flipping out at him or acting like children. Everyone does this from time to time, but there is a certain line where clearly respect has been lost.

Over that line, it’s his blog and I don’t blame him one bit.

Agreed. I have argued with Charles. Got a few downs as per the disagreement. Cool. Just yesterday AJ Strata posted, in his polite manner. He’s in serious disagreement with Charles to say the least. Not banned.

208 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 2:23:51pm

re: #203 Gus 802

Yep. If you add up the 101st Fighting Keyboards period, the War Blogger period, LGF Watch, and a couple of other left stalker type action none of it can compare with the outright nastiness, obesseion and violent rhetoric from the right-wing bloggers and villagers. People also need to remember that Glenn Beck also went crazy over the boiled frog stunt he pulled and that was televised on Fox News.

The Academy Award for Best Stalker Horror Movie goes to The Right Wing.

No two ways about that.

The left wing is coming from a place that doesn’t have but doesn’t feel it needs either. They have less to loose in their minds and are less helpless.

The true nasty can only come from someone who is just simply ignorant and frightened all the time, afraid that their nation has left them and their useless selves behind. All of that fear and anger comes from a desperate need for vengeance.

Once that gets compounded with the anonymity of the internet, these weak betas and scarred ninnies get to imagine that they are ninja warriors with the real inside scoop! They won’t be fooled again no no by those leftists and scientists and Godless types! They know better! Of course, not a one of them could manage simple algebra or has read a great book or understood its contents. But, that is only a mental parallel to the physical reality that they are fat 50-60 year olds who could be taken down by a healthy teenaged girl - let alone a ninja.

This really is the point. These people have constructed a delusion for themselves in which they are great American leaders, heroes and warriors - poets.

By carefully stoking that ego and twinging their all too apparent fears, people like Fox and Palin, turn such losers into fanatical followers and give them purpose and justification to lash out.

209 Liet_Kynes  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 2:53:49pm

re: #192 LudwigVanQuixote

When you compare and contrast Islam/Judiasm/Christianity it is important to compare Islam with Arabic/Babylonian Judaism and Syrian (often Nestorian/Arian) Orthodox Christianity. That is what Mohammad et. al. had contact with if you are looking at the very early roots and influences. As Islam comes into contact with Christianity/Judiasm as expressed in other cultures, you can see different influences there.

If you try to compare Islam with the theological expressions in Protestant Christianity, you will have a lot of wrong conclusions, just as you will if you compare it to 20th century American Catholicism. The roots do intertwine but you have to compare using the expression of religions during the 6th century in that part of the world.

Also btw, Islam doesn’t consider itself to be an improvement over Judaism or Christianity – it specifically considers Islam to contained the true message of Allah where as Judaism and Christianity corrupted the message. Likewise Christianity (that is specifically pre-Reformation Christianity) does not see itself as an improvement over Judaism but rather that Judaism is the promise and Christianity is the fulfillment of that promise. Judaism, which is largely Rabbinic Judaism as the other forms of Judaism fell apart after the destruction of the Temple, sees itself as Judaism largely in total.

The notion of “hell” is in the original Judiasm. Hell is a concept that develops but so too is heaven.
[Link: www.jewishencyclopedia.com…] .

210 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 3:10:21pm

re: #205 Liet_Kynes

Not a problem. Glad to help you out.

First from the early 20th century THE GREAT HERESIES by Hilaire Belloc (who is a noted 20th century Oxford historian) The Great and Enduring Heresy of Mohammed

[Link: www.ewtn.com…]

Now let me give you St. John of Damascus a Christian who lived under Islamic rule (7-8th centuries) and who considered Islam to be a Christian heresy.
[Link: www.fathersofthechurch.com…]

Ah. So your claim is from one contemporary person.

You really should stop making absolutist claims about positions like that.

211 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 3:26:47pm

re: #200 Liet_Kynes

113 marjoriemoon– I was described sort of the opposite by Muslims I met during my undergrad (both students and Imams). Jihad, according to what I was taught, is both inner and outward struggle. The extent towards which one takes precedence varies according to the schools of thought. Historically though, the outward struggle of jihad came dominated for centuries. Only after lands were secured did the focus turn increasingly inward. That is when Islam had its golden age (8-13th centures). Do not underestimate the concept that the world needs to be placed under the rule of Allah in Islamic eschatology though.

To be sure though, this concept is found in different forms in both Christian and Jewish eschatology. Jewish eschatology does consider that God will give Israel victory over the nations and she will rule over them (Maimonides, the midieval rabbi considered that Israel would be an equal nation but not rule over the other nations) and lead them in worship. Christian eschatology is a modification on that concept, in particularly that a new world will come were there will no longer be a host of nations, but rather one people – the eschatological Israel/Church, which will rule with and worship Christ (though to be sure Christians considered the Church to be the eschatological Church — an instance of the end of time coming in the midst of time — the “now but not yet” dynamism that is a hallmark of Christian eschatology).

See “Christus Vincit, Christus Regnat, Christus Imperat”.

212 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 3:27:56pm

re: #209 Liet_Kynes

Gehenna is not hell. Not even close. The closest Christian cognate to it would be purgatory.

For one thing, Gehenna is something that souls can get out of. In fact, we believe that they get a review every Yom Kippur.

Right away you know you are not talking about the Christian notion.

Second of all, the purpose of Gehenna is a sort of purification. It is not meant to be a place of eternal torture.

Be careful about linking to various encyclopedia references or perhaps better put reading them through… From your own link:

All that descend into Gehenna shall come up again, with the exception of three classes of men: those who have committed adultery, or shamed their neighbors, or vilified them (B. M. 58b).

Further, be careful about lecturing observant Jews about their own religion… :)

213 Liet_Kynes  Fri, Sep 24, 2010 9:33:00pm

re: #211 Decatur Deb

Not even close to the same thing. For one Christ is already conquered, reigns, and rules. It is not a future statement that comes about by spreading the religion by the point of the sword. The expansion of the Kingdom of God is about the individual’s personal participation in the eschatological reality that has broken into the midst of time NOT in the expansion of Christian legal governance over pagan lands.

re: #210 Obdicut

You are quite funny being such a contrarian. St. John of Damascus is one of the great theologians whose attitudes and writings are considered to be normative for both Eastern and Western Christianity. Thus his attitude on Islam and his insight into it is considered “standard” especially for the time period in which he was writing.

How many people should I quote on this issue? What type of authority would you like? I have my books on Islam and history of Christianity. I can give you more if you really are interested. I make my claims because I have studied and researched from primary sources. I just gave you two standard texts on the issue: Belloc’s as a standard 20th century view and St. John of Damascus as the normative 7th-8th century view. Obviously not enough for you so what would you like?

re: #212 LudwigVanQuixote

Thank you kindly though I don’t intend to lecture only state facts. I did read the article. Perhaps you are too acquainted with the popular Medieval notion of hell (which is not official), and that is why you don’t see the connectivity. If you look up the writings of the early Church Fathers on hell/purgatory you will see that it often mirrors the language and beliefs of Judaism of that time period.

Did you read the quote you sent me? It clearly states that not all of those who are sent to Gehenna shall come up again. Thus it is a joint hell/purgatory place. Which is how early Christians saw things. It is a classical debate as to where purgatory is. Western Christians typically see it as outside of the Gates of Heaven, thus technically the part of Gehenna that is not eternal.

The idea of Hell/Gehenna being a place of punishment is also stated in the article “I punish the slanderers from above, and I also punish them from below with glowing coals” (‘Ar. 15b). That some suffer for eternity is also stated by the article “The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity” (Judith xvi. 17).

Further the article lets us know that the Jews did believe in the equivalent of hell for it states “[the above] agrees with the Greek idea of hell (Lucian, Αληθεῖς Ιστορίαι, i. 29, in Dietrich, “Abraxas,” p. 36).


So anyway the article does in fact hold up my statement that Judaism does contain within it the understanding of a place where some sinners are separated from God and punished by fire for eternity – ie Hell.

214 ClaudeMonet  Sat, Sep 25, 2010 12:38:18am

re: #82 Liberal Classic

Let’s get Lewis Black, Penn Gillette, and Gilbert Gottfried. Maybe we can keep Congress entertained. Bread and circus sauce for the goose, to mix metaphors. It’s a shame Richard Pryor and Sam Kinison are no longer with us.


Sam Kinison would have been great testifying before Congress—

“Just do it! Pass the goddamn tax bill! Pass the goddamn budget bill! Do it!! Get off your asses for once and work with each other! Admit you’re a bunch of spineless wimps who’d rather die than work for a living! Say it! SAAAAAYYYYYY IIIIITTTTT!!!!”

215 ClaudeMonet  Sat, Sep 25, 2010 12:40:52am

Try again on the late, great Sam Kinison—

216 ClaudeMonet  Sat, Sep 25, 2010 12:51:25am

re: #144 oaktree

Yep. And if the Emperor was smart he could have ordered an effective modular battlestation from IKEA and saved tons of Imperial credits for other projects like pest control and more effective troop training.

No kidding. Those “Imperial Storm Troopers” really couldn’t do squat. Why did they wear that cheesy plastic body armor that never seemed to stop anything? And why in white? Shouldn’t they have worn black to look all bad-ass, like Darth Vader?

“modular battlestation from IKEA”—That’s really, really good. It would have been easier to build, and reliable. But at least they didn’t order it from the Acme Company.

More questions—Why was the Death Star round? Wouldn’t a linear form have been more effective, since it was basically a beam projector?

217 yasharki  Sat, Sep 25, 2010 1:17:19am

Eghm, church in current meaning of the word didn’t exist back in marry/jebus times, therefore “Randal Terry” ‘s rant is absurd at best and pathological at worst, no?

218 Liet_Kynes  Sat, Sep 25, 2010 9:47:42am

re: #217 yasharki

You are correct but only if you are considering the “current meaning of the term church” to be the modernist and extreamly low church definition(ie that the church is simply a human organization, originated by humans, and comprised of those that have chosen to believe.)

Scripture doesn’t teach that definition. But that is also not the definition that Terry is using. Terry is coming from the more traditional high church (that the church is a divine institution comprised of those that Christ has “called and drawn out of the world setting them apart” (which is the basic litteral meaning of the root words for the scriptural term.)

The term “church” does appear in scripture 80 times. Strong’s G1577 - ekklēsia . It is derived from ἐκ (G1537) and a derivative of καλέω (G2564).

If you track through scripture itself, using the above passages and others, you will find that scriptures usage of the term “church” does in fact match the current high church meaning of the word.

Let us use a current official definition and observe how it is directly based upon the understanding as laid down in scripture.

DOMINUS IESUS~ The Lord Jesus, the only Saviour, did not only establish a simple community of disciples, but constituted the Church as a salvific mystery: he himself is in the Church and the Church is in him (cf. Jn 15:1ff.; Gal 3:28; Eph 4:15-16; Acts 9:5). Therefore, the fullness of Christ’s salvific mystery belongs also to the Church, inseparably united to her Lord. Indeed, Jesus Christ continues his presence and his work of salvation in the Church and by means of the Church (cf. Col 1:24-27),47 which is his body (cf. 1 Cor 12:12-13, 27; Col 1:18).48 And thus, just as the head and members of a living body, though not identical, are inseparable, so too Christ and the Church can neither be confused nor separated, and constitute a single “whole Christ”.49 This same inseparability is also expressed in the New Testament by the analogy of the Church as the Bride of Christ (cf. 2 Cor 11:2; Eph 5:25-29; Rev 21:2,9).50


(47) Cf. Second Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution Lumen gentium, 14 (Mk. 16:16; Jn. 3.5)
(48) Cf. ibid., 7. (Gal. 6:15; 2 Cor. 5:17; 1 Cor. 12:13.Rom. 6:15. Cor. 10:17.1 Cor 12:27.Rom. 12:5. Cf. 1 Cor. 12:12. 1 Cor. 12.1-11. 1 Cor. 14. l Cor. 12:26. Col. 1:15-18. Eph. 1:18-23. Gal. 4:19. Phil. 3:21; 2 Tim. 2:11; Eph. 2:6; Col. 2:12 Rom. 8:17. 2:19. Eph. 4:11-16. Eph. 4:23. Eph. 5:25-28,23-24. Col. 2:9. Eph. 1:22-23. Eph. 3:19)
(49) Cf. St. Augustine, Enarratio in Psalmos, Ps. 90, Sermo 2,1: CCSL 39, 1266; St. Gregory the Great, Moralia in Iob, Praefatio, 6, 14: PL 75, 525; St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologiae, III, q. 48, a. 2 ad 1.
(50) Cf. Second Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution Lumen gentium, 6 (Jn. 10:1-10. Is. 40:11; Ex. 34:11ff. Jn. 10:11; 1 Pt. 5:4. Jn. 10:11-15. l Cor. 3:9. Rom. 11:13-26. Mt. 21:33-43; cf. Is. 5:1 ff. Jn. 15:1-5. 1 Cor. 3:9. Mt 21:42; cf. Acts 4:11; 1 Pt. 2:7; Ps. 117:22. Cf. 1 Cor. 3:11 1 Tim. 3:15. Eph. 2:19-22. Rev. 21:3. 1 Pt. 2:5. Rev. 21:16. Gal. 4:26; cf. Rev. 12:17. Rev. 19:7; 21:2 and 9; 22:17 Eph. 5:26. Eph. 5:29. Eph. 5:24. Eph. 3:19. 2 Cor. 5:6. Col. 3:1-4.).


219 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:05:25pm

re: #218 Liet_Kynes

But that is also not the definition that Terry is using. Terry is coming from the more traditional high church (that the church is a divine institution comprised of those that Christ has “called and drawn out of the world setting them apart” (which is the basic litteral meaning of the root words for the scriptural term.)

Apologist.

Shame.

220 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:06:29pm

re: #213 Liet_Kynes

Islam was not, in general, considered a heretical version of Christianity. Anyone with a 101 knowledge of comparative religion knows that.

221 Liet_Kynes  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 9:35:30pm

re: #220 Obdicut

I am afraid you are not as aware of theological topics as you think you are. I hold a BA and MA degrees in Catholic Theology and I tell you seriously that when Islam was considered in the comparative religion and medieval theology courses that I had, it was discussed that Islam was originally often treated as a Christian heresy by major theologians of the day. You are not interested in my books, my citations, or my notes but instead babble on with your unfounded opinions. Let me give you another citation, though you are not asking for one, and probably don’t care a lick, perhaps it will help you come to a better understanding of history. Peter the Venerable (12th century), who produced the first Latin translation of the Quran, was considered to be the authority on Islam for his day, who progressed forward the study of Islam in a positive manner, wrote specifically that Islam was a Christian heresy. Here is another citation for you. In “Islam, Christianity and the West”. page 39 states that the Byzantine Empire at first viewed Islam as a Christian Heresy.

(btw don’t think I didn’t notice you giving a thumbs up to Decatur Deb who came to my defense and cited Dante. Then you down ding me for giving a citation to someone of vastly more theological authority? Hypocrite.)

LGF exists largely to stop the flow of misinformation. Yasharki was making a fundamental mistake in his understanding that was preventing him and others from understanding Terry correctly. What I wrote was not a defense of Terry and your attempt to misconstrue it as such can be easily spotted by those who are more interested in truth rather than in their own personal opinions. Instead of you trying to take what I wrote to help you understand Terry better so you can construct better arguments against him your decision is instead to attempt to shame me for helping people to have true information. That I find to be beneath what LGF stands for.

222 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:35:03am

re: #221 Liet_Kynes

Islam was sometimes treated as a Christian heresy, yes. It was not solely treated as a Christian heresy, and it certainly was not monolithically treated as such by Christian authorities

Remember, your claim:

It is though, and this is important, to understand that in the first few centuries of the existence of Islam, it was treated as a Christian heresy, not as a wholly independent theological movement.

You didn’t claim that some viewed it as a Christian heresy, but that it was treated as a Christian heresy in the first few centuries. This is wrong, and doesn’t become more right by insulting me. The view of Islam as Christian heresy came about briefly before and during the time of the Crusades, as part of the justification for them— it was at this point that the writings of John of Damascus were useful to the Church as a whole. Islam was founded in 610 AD.

Here are just a few examples of contemporary Christian leaders referring to Muslims not as Christian heretics:

Anastasius of Sinai, who viewed Muslims as in league with devils:

Jacob of Edessa, who wrote that those converting to Islam were apostates, not heretics.

Willibald, who considered them pagans.

The truth is that there was no coherent treatment of Islam by the Christian world until the period of the crusades— which are a few hundred years after the foundation of Islam. Even then, the view of Islam was not coherent, given that the first call to to the Crusades, the speech given by Urban II at Clermont, refers to the Muslims as pagans.

That I find to be beneath what LGF stands for.

You don’t decide what LGF stands for.


Try not being a dead-thread hero in the future, and actually engaging with people in real time.


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