1 shutdown  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 4:57:27pm

One of the ad link which appears embedded in the video is for an outfit called AmericanCrossroadsDOTorg. Never heard of them, bit the leadership team are all RNC and GWB administration refugees.

2 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 4:57:50pm

You wouldn't believe the kind of snooty looks a fellow can get these days just for showing how much he loves his country.

3 shutdown  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 4:59:46pm

I am going to watch a TV show that does not feature politicians. TTFN

4 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 5:00:54pm

Evening all!

5 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 5:07:56pm

ehh, the onion has done better.

6 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 5:12:11pm

Well, one small benefit of living in NYC is a never ending supply of tourists to abuse...

7 darthstar  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 5:19:03pm

Giants scored in the bottom of the 1st...let's hope the game continues this way.

8 darthstar  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 5:23:26pm

Well, Sarah Palin isn't the only person who's had to move from huge 3,000 seat auditoriums to vast 800 seat ones...President Obama has had to do a change of venue too!

he rally had been scheduled to take place on the 39,000 sq ft. McCarthy Quad. But yesterday, Organizing for America sent out a mass email announcing the moving of the event to the much larger, 69,000 sq ft Alumni Park.

I contacted the events department at USC for more information and was advised that while the actual event was moved to Alumni Park, they are planning on setting up big screens in the original venue, the adjacent 39,000 sq ft McCarthy Quad and packing in the folks there as well!

Then again, Sarah's former running mate did draw over 150 people in Vermont this week, so I can see why Democrats would be nervous about this change in venue.

9 Reginald Perrin  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 5:24:22pm

re: #5 brookly red

ehh, the onion has done better.

Why do you say that?

Are you questioning Charles choice of video to post on his blog? I thought it was hilarious, don't you have a sense of humor?

10 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 5:25:43pm

re: #9 Reginald Perrin

Why do you say that?

Are you questioning Charles choice of video to post on his blog? I thought it was hilarious, don't you have a sense of humor?

well they have been better... I have a great sense of humor & it gets me in trouble all the time.

11 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 5:26:26pm

re: #8 darthstar

Well, Sarah Palin isn't the only person who's had to move from huge 3,000 seat auditoriums to vast 800 seat ones...President Obama has had to do a change of venue too!

Then again, Sarah's former running mate did draw over 150 people in Vermont this week, so I can see why Democrats would be nervous about this change in venue.


//Hey I'd like to see Joe Biden draw crowds of over 150 people!

12 darthstar  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 5:27:38pm

re: #10 brookly red

well they have been better... I have a great sense of humor & it gets me in trouble all the time.

Agreed...I'd put this one at about a six or seven on the Onion-meter...though the guy's line about running over a kid in Italy and shouting "mea culpa!" as he drove away was a sign of American politeness was pretty funny.

13 Reginald Perrin  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 5:31:41pm

re: #10 brookly red

What was it specifically about the video that you did not find funny? From reading a few of your comments it's obvious you have an irony deficient diet.

I bet you have your panties in a wad because those sneaky buggers at the Onion conned you into watching the video. You thought you were going to be watching a video taking shots at Obama.

14 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 5:32:17pm

re: #13 Reginald Perrin

What was it specifically about the video that you did not find funny? From reading a few of your comments it's obvious you have an irony deficient diet.

I bet you have your panties in a wad because those sneaky buggers at the Onion conned you into watching the video. You thought you were going to be watching a video taking shots at Obama.

piss off asshole.

15 [deleted]  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 5:33:17pm
16 Reginald Perrin  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 5:34:12pm

re: #12 darthstar

To a person who has spent his entire life living 5 miles on the other side of the American border, it is hilarious.

17 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 5:40:47pm

re: #12 darthstar

Agreed...I'd put this one at about a six or seven on the Onion-meter...though the guy's line about running over a kid in Italy and shouting "mea culpa!" as he drove away was a sign of American politeness was pretty funny.

It was an old joke (the ugly American) renewed.

Americans, at least some, being totally clueless that not everyone thinks they're teh awesum!

18 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 5:43:19pm

re: #17 PT Barnum

It was an old joke (the ugly American) renewed.

Americans, at least some, being totally clueless that not everyone thinks they're teh awesum!

As someone who lives in a major tourist destination area, I would like to politely comment that Europeans are not, actually, nearly as polite or culturally adaptable as they would like to believe.

19 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 5:44:02pm

re: #18 SanFranciscoZionist

As someone who lives in a major tourist destination area, I would like to politely comment that Europeans are not, actually, nearly as polite or culturally adaptable as they would like to believe.

yah think?

20 TedStriker  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 5:46:48pm

re: #14 brookly red

Temper, temper...

21 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 5:47:10pm

re: #18 SanFranciscoZionist

As someone who lives in a major tourist destination area, I would like to politely comment that Europeans are not, actually, nearly as polite or culturally adaptable as they would like to believe.

Don't surprise me at all. I think most people are like that. I think it takes a great deal of travel and exposure to lots of other cultures to become less ethnocentric and willing to go with the flow.

Andrew Zimmern is a model for this, as he seems to be able to eat damn near anything no matter how disgusting and be very gracious with his guests.

22 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 5:47:49pm

re: #20 talon_262

Temper, temper...

He's working on taking away Walter's Mr. Crankypants nickname for himself.

23 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 5:48:07pm

re: #20 talon_262

Temper, temper...

should I have said sphincter?

24 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 5:49:39pm

re: #18 SanFranciscoZionist

As someone who lives in a major tourist destination area, I would like to politely comment that Europeans are not, actually, nearly as polite or culturally adaptable as they would like to believe.

Amen!

25 darthstar  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 5:50:21pm

Buster Posey. 2nd at bat. 2nd RBI.

26 Reginald Perrin  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 5:51:38pm

re: #18 SanFranciscoZionist

I think the Onion video was so over the top in ugliness, that it skewered some foreigners' exaggerated vision of the Ugly American.

27 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 5:55:41pm

re: #26 Reginald Perrin

I think the Onion video was so over the top in ugliness, that it skewered some foreigners' exaggerated vision of the Ugly American.

My personal favorite American tourist EVER was the guy in line at the Crown Jewels exhibit at the Tower of London who was trying to get the tour guide to give him an estimate value for the collection.

Guide kept evading the question, and babbling about the historical value of the stuff.

Eh, whatever. Aside from a couple real treasures like the Black Prince's ruby, and the Koh-i-Noor, the stuff is mostly just bulk diamonds, set and reset over the years, and almost nothing goes back before the eighteenth century.

This guy was great. Bermudas and a short-sleeve button-up. The guide wanted to kill him.

28 tradewind  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 5:57:52pm

You'd have thought this was from The Onion, but nooo.
[Link: www.mediaite.com...]
This could have been titled ' When Democrats Attack', but the party affiliation was somehow.....ignored.
Or something.

29 Reginald Perrin  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 5:58:01pm

re: #27 SanFranciscoZionist

The perfect added touch, smoking a cigar.

30 researchok  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 5:58:52pm

re: #18 SanFranciscoZionist

As someone who lives in a major tourist destination area, I would like to politely comment that Europeans are not, actually, nearly as polite or culturally adaptable as they would like to believe.

European Anti Americanism is as European, as, well, cheese.

There are a lot of reasons this is so, but for any European (and for that matter, Canadian) politician to ;make his bones', an anti American period is mandatory.

Europeans have a love/hate relationship with Americans.

'We love you because you came from Europe- you are our cousins. We hate you because we are not you'.

31 palomino  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:00:02pm

re: #12 darthstar

Agreed...I'd put this one at about a six or seven on the Onion-meter...though the guy's line about running over a kid in Italy and shouting "mea culpa!" as he drove away was a sign of American politeness was pretty funny.

Well, the Onion can't always be this funny.

32 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:02:16pm

re: #30 researchok

European Anti Americanism is as European, as, well, cheese.

There are a lot of reasons this is so, but for any European (and for that matter, Canadian) politician to ;make his bones', an anti American period is mandatory.

Europeans have a love/hate relationship with Americans.

'We love you because you came from Europe- you are our cousins. We hate you because we are not you'.

We expect to make sense to each other. We are annoyed when we don't.

Also, my personal experience with many Europeans, as a graduate student in England, was that most of the Americans they knew were very eager to agree with dismissiveness toward American culture, and you could get a rep as a total bitch for insisting, however politely, that American culture is fine. It just wasn't an attitude they were used to.

33 darthstar  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:02:30pm

re: #31 palomino

Well, the Onion can't always be this funny.

or accurate...sheesh...talk about foresight.

34 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:03:04pm

re: #31 palomino

Well, the Onion can't always be this funny.

My all-time favorite Onion piece is the one about the man who was held for years at the zoo because they were convinced he was a giraffe.

35 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:04:18pm

re: #34 SanFranciscoZionist

My all-time favorite Onion piece is the one about the man who was held for years at the zoo because they were convinced he was a giraffe.

Here we go: DNA Evidence Frees Man From Zoo.

36 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:04:31pm

re: #32 SanFranciscoZionist

We expect to make sense to each other. We are annoyed when we don't.

Also, my personal experience with many Europeans, as a graduate student in England, was that most of the Americans they knew were very eager to agree with dismissiveness toward American culture, and you could get a rep as a total bitch for insisting, however politely, that American culture is fine. It just wasn't an attitude they were used to.

they may not like our culture, but when they need it they like our military... I hate to be the one to bring this point up.

37 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:04:51pm

re: #32 SanFranciscoZionist

When I was in Europe, I found people thought the US and American stuff was awesome. This was a hell of a long time ago, though.

I think people don't really realize just how much damage was done to the reputation of America during the Bush years.

38 deranged cat  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:05:30pm

it's true. americans are pretty much scoffed at all around the world.
and to them i say "YEA? and what national store can you get an $80 cappuccino machine for $33 minus a $10 off anything Kohls gift card that came in the mail for a grand total of $23 after tax?! SUCK IT!"

ps. fun fact. when i was studying in china, this little girl looked at me very strangely (i'm chinese) stating "how can you be american? you aren't white..you look chinese.. but your chinese is awful! i don't understand you."

39 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:05:32pm

re: #27 SanFranciscoZionist

I bet he had dark colored sandals & white socks on too!

40 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:05:33pm

re: #35 SanFranciscoZionist

Here we go: DNA Evidence Frees Man From Zoo.

I also like Cheney Dunk Tank Raises $800 Million for the Nation.

41 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:05:47pm

re: #36 brookly red

they may not like our culture, but when they need it they like our military... I hate to be the one to bring this point up.

You do? Why?

42 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:05:50pm

re: #36 brookly red

they may not like our culture, but when they need it they like our military... I hate to be the one to bring this point up.

Can you cite a time that Europe needed our military?

Who has Europe fought?

43 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:06:02pm

re: #32 SanFranciscoZionist

The Brits are odd. Even with American culture there's still a strange love/hate thing. They really do idolize much of American culture in a strange way.

44 Ojoe  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:06:32pm

Super excellent Towercam view.

Look now, it will change quickly.

45 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:06:43pm

re: #37 Obdicut

When I was in Europe, I found people thought the US and American stuff was awesome. This was a hell of a long time ago, though.

I think people don't really realize just how much damage was done to the reputation of America during the Bush years.

My experience was before Bush. It wasn't hostility, it was just sort of an intellectual "Eh, Americans aren't much. Nikulturni, no?" attitude. Thomas Jefferson encountered the same in his day.

46 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:07:04pm

re: #45 SanFranciscoZionist

I met a lot of rock-and-roll and blues fans.

47 darthstar  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:07:12pm

Heh...more O'Donnell stupidity from the debate:

MODERATOR: Give me a name, Christine, of someone in the U.S. Senate, across the aisle that you’re comfortable working with.

O’DONNELL: [Pause] Well, she’s not a senator any more, but I would definitely have to say Hillary Clinton. [...]

COONS: One of the real risks as we go forward, is that if we elect someone who literally cannot name a single currently serving senator in my party with whom she would work –

O’DONNELL: Senator Lieberman!

COONS: Someone who has no experience crossing the biparistan divide.

48 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:07:45pm

re: #41 SanFranciscoZionist

You do? Why?

cause it was before my time & I an not a military person... I thought it would be best left for some one with first hand experience.

49 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:07:49pm

re: #44 Ojoe

Pinking up the sky here.
BBIAB.
Must watch!

50 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:07:53pm

re: #42 Obdicut

Can you cite a time that Europe needed our military?

WWII. Cold War.
What do i win?

51 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:08:05pm

re: #43 Killgore Trout

He. The British were the biggest anti-Americans I encountered in Europe.

I lived in England for a year. Went to school there, age seventeen.

One English dude was going on and on to me about the failures of American culture. I wasn't really paying all that much attention-- the English do this on occasion. At the end of the rant, he said,

"So tell me, Yank, what do Americans think of the British?"

And I replied, unthinkingly,

"We don't."

'tis true.

52 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:08:14pm

re: #44 Ojoe

Super excellent Towercam view.

Look now, it will change quickly.

Nice.

53 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:08:25pm

re: #50 Killgore Trout

WWII. Cold War.
What do i win?

I don't think Germany really wanted our military in Europe during that time, though.

54 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:08:30pm

re: #39 Floral Giraffe

I bet he had dark colored sandals & white socks on too!

Entirely possible. He was certainly wearing the outfit. Other than that he was cheerful, and polite as hell, and photographing everything in the vicinity--but he sure wanted to know how much that roomful of diamonds was worth!

(When I lived in London I LOVED American tourists. They were always thrilled to find someone from home who wasn't jet-lagged.)

55 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:08:46pm

re: #50 Killgore Trout

WWII. Cold War.
What do i win?

scorn

56 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:09:27pm

re: #55 brookly red

scorn

Hooray!
/Winnah

57 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:10:33pm

re: #53 Obdicut

I don't think Germany really wanted our military in Europe during that time, though.

Everybody else seemed happy about it (aside from a few Italians).

58 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:11:15pm

re: #43 Killgore Trout

The Brits are odd. Even with American culture there's still a strange love/hate thing. They really do idolize much of American culture in a strange way.

There's the language. There's the pieces of shared history. There's, I swear, a sort of simmering resentment that we didn't sit still long enough to become part of the Commonwealth.

I once, unintentionally, rather unnerved an older British man who heard my accent and said, jovially, "Ah! A colonist!"

I said, (DAMNIT), "Well, yes, but not one of yours. California! Viva Espana!"

That was the wrong thing to say.

We have a ...complicated...relationship.

59 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:11:22pm

re: #40 SanFranciscoZionist

I also like Cheney Dunk Tank Raises $800 Million for the Nation.

I'd be right there with at least $20....

I just hope Darth Cheney's cybernetics don't shortcircut when exposed to water.

60 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:11:50pm

re: #57 Killgore Trout

Everybody else seemed happy about it (aside from a few Italians).

speaking of speaking German, where is Cato?

61 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:11:53pm

re: #58 SanFranciscoZionist

There's the language. There's the pieces of shared history. There's, I swear, a sort of simmering resentment that we didn't sit still long enough to become part of the Commonwealth.

I once, unintentionally, rather unnerved an older British man who heard my accent and said, jovially, "Ah! A colonist!"

I said, (DAMNIT), "Well, yes, but not one of yours. California! Viva Espana!"

That was the wrong thing to say.

We have a ...complicated...relationship.

heh.

62 palomino  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:12:23pm

re: #36 brookly red

they may not like our culture, but when they need it they like our military... I hate to be the one to bring this point up.

Just as we liked the French military during the American Revolution.

And actually they do like our culture, at least our pop culture (which really is our primary culture). One reason Hollywood blockbusters usually make money is the huge European audiences who often buy more tix per capita than Americans. Same is largely true with American music and TV. And they're starting to get almost as fat as Americans, in part because they love our fast food--everything from MickeyDs to Taco Bell to KFC, even Pizza Hut.

63 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:12:27pm

re: #51 Obdicut

He. The British were the biggest anti-Americans I encountered in Europe.

I lived in England for a year. Went to school there, age seventeen.

One English dude was going on and on to me about the failures of American culture. I wasn't really paying all that much attention-- the English do this on occasion. At the end of the rant, he said,

"So tell me, Yank, what do Americans think of the British?"

And I replied, unthinkingly,

"We don't."

'tis true.

We do to think of the British!

They have a minestry of silly walks, and their town women's guild re-enact Pearl Harbor every so often!

64 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:13:06pm

re: #60 brookly red

speaking of speaking German, where is Cato?

I think he had a series of flounces. One of them eventually stuck.

65 researchok  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:13:08pm

re: #32 SanFranciscoZionist

We expect to make sense to each other. We are annoyed when we don't.

Also, my personal experience with many Europeans, as a graduate student in England, was that most of the Americans they knew were very eager to agree with dismissiveness toward American culture, and you could get a rep as a total bitch for insisting, however politely, that American culture is fine. It just wasn't an attitude they were used to.

All true.

I grew up in the UK and I can tell you, the schizophrenia is evident.

The litany of complaints and distaste directed at Americans was biblical in proportion. By the same token, ask any kid if he wanted to live in America and the answer was almost universally an enthusiastic, 'Yes'.

See this, for my take on the differences are between Europeans and Americans.

It was written a lifetime ago...

66 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:13:17pm

re: #60 brookly red

speaking of speaking German, where is Cato?

He got banned... it was sort of a big thing...

67 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:14:25pm

re: #65 researchok

All true.

I grew up in the UK and I can tell you, the schizophrenia is evident.

The litany of complaints and distaste directed at Americans was biblical in proportion. By the same token, ask any kid if he wanted to live in America and the answer was almost universally an enthusiastic, 'Yes'.

See this, for my take on the differences are between Europeans and Americans.

It was written a lifetime ago...

"America is the land of gangsters and cowboys and they have 32 flavors of ice cream!"

That's how Terry Pratchett put it in God Omens I think....

68 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:14:31pm

re: #66 jamesfirecat

He got banned... it was sort of a big thing...

Oh...

69 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:16:26pm

re: #57 Killgore Trout

Everybody else seemed happy about it (aside from a few Italians).

In that case, we should really also talk about how the Europeans should acknowlege their debt to Russia, which far outweighs their debt to us.

Don't get me wrong: i'm very glad the US kicked ass in WWII. We did.

But Europe was the front-line. They suffered. They were in the war when we weren't. Even France just had fucking awful generals; The Free French and the Maquis fought a long, hard war. The British bravery during the Blitz was nuts. For us to lecture them about gratitude for our actions during WWII misses the point of what WWII was about by a wide margin.

70 Jadespring  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:16:46pm

re: #66 jamesfirecat

He got banned... it was sort of a big thing...

Well he did sorta ask to be banned. It was sorta a please give me a reason to go flounce banning episode.

71 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:16:52pm

re: #68 brookly red

Oh...

Yeah as someone who had moments of both agreeing with him and disagreeing with him... he was a character if nothing else... I'll never get what pushed him to do what he did....

72 palomino  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:17:27pm

re: #51 Obdicut

He. The British were the biggest anti-Americans I encountered in Europe.

I lived in England for a year. Went to school there, age seventeen.

One English dude was going on and on to me about the failures of American culture. I wasn't really paying all that much attention-- the English do this on occasion. At the end of the rant, he said,

"So tell me, Yank, what do Americans think of the British?"

And I replied, unthinkingly,

"We don't."

'tis true.

That analogizes perfectly to the different ways northerners and southerners look at the Civil War.

Southerners are still quite obsessed. Why? Because they lost. The losers remember and carry a chip on their shoulder. The winners move on.

Same is true with the Brits. I've had a few tell me that they "made us" what we are. We may have adopted much of their cultural and legal and political framework, but post-1783, we pretty much had taken off the British training wheels and made ourselves what we are today. But the Brits don't forget. Why? Because they lost.

73 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:17:50pm

re: #69 Obdicut

In that case, we should really also talk about how the Europeans should acknowlege their debt to Russia, which far outweighs their debt to us.

Don't get me wrong: i'm very glad the US kicked ass in WWII. We did.

But Europe was the front-line. They suffered. They were in the war when we weren't. Even France just had fucking awful generals; The Free French and the Maquis fought a long, hard war. The British bravery during the Blitz was nuts. For us to lecture them about gratitude for our actions during WWII misses the point of what WWII was about by a wide margin.

Russia was not Europe? Hmmm, I need a new map.

74 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:18:43pm

re: #67 jamesfirecat

"America is the land of gangsters and cowboys and they have 32 flavors of ice cream!"

That's how Terry Pratchett put it in God Omens I think...

I once had a Slovakian guy totally fascinated when I pulled out my Sierra Club planner.

He had apparently thought that the entire continent of North America was entirely plastered over with mini-malls and suburban housing.

75 researchok  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:18:44pm

re: #67 jamesfirecat

"America is the land of gangsters and cowboys and they have 32 flavors of ice cream!"

That's how Terry Pratchett put it in God Omens I think...

For us, as kids, America was the land of wonder.

As a kid, I wanted the freedom to be an American. We saw America as 'free', where anything could happen.

You cannot imagine what Disneyland meant to us- such things were not even a part of our dreams!

76 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:18:47pm

re: #72 palomino

Might as well tell the British that they're really French, then, thanks to the Normans.

77 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:19:20pm

re: #69 Obdicut

In that case, we should really also talk about how the Europeans should acknowlege their debt to Russia, which far outweighs their debt to us.

Don't get me wrong: i'm very glad the US kicked ass in WWII. We did.

But Europe was the front-line. They suffered. They were in the war when we weren't. Even France just had fucking awful generals; The Free French and the Maquis fought a long, hard war. The British bravery during the Blitz was nuts. For us to lecture them about gratitude for our actions during WWII misses the point of what WWII was about by a wide margin.

I just feel we should publicly honor the Poles more for their contribution during the Revolution.

78 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:19:24pm

re: #71 jamesfirecat

Yeah as someone who had moments of both agreeing with him and disagreeing with him... he was a character if nothing else... I'll never get what pushed him to do what he did...

well I helped talk him off the ledge once... I can see where he was coming from I guess.

79 palomino  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:19:42pm

re: #70 Jadespring

Well he did sorta ask to be banned. It was sorta a please give me a reason to go flounce banning episode.

He wanted to be banned? Is it bad form for me to ask why he would want such a thing? When did this happen?

80 austin_blue  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:19:51pm

re: #27 SanFranciscoZionist

My personal favorite American tourist EVER was the guy in line at the Crown Jewels exhibit at the Tower of London who was trying to get the tour guide to give him an estimate value for the collection.

Guide kept evading the question, and babbling about the historical value of the stuff.

Eh, whatever. Aside from a couple real treasures like the Black Prince's ruby, and the Koh-i-Noor, the stuff is mostly just bulk diamonds, set and reset over the years, and almost nothing goes back before the eighteenth century.

This guy was great. Bermudas and a short-sleeve button-up. The guide wanted to kill him.

Mine was in Paris. I had a week off from working in the North Sea and my company jetted me down. Found a cheap pension on the left bank and was sitting in a cafe, reading the IHT, having coffee and a croissant, and smoking a Galoise when I hear a commotion and see two fat people walking toward me. Bermuda shorts, Hawaiian shirts and straw hats. The husband has got a big SLR camera bouncing off his belly and opined "Goddamit, Lurleen! We're lost! Doesn't anybody speak American around this hellhole?!?!"

I did my best to slide under the table.

81 prairiefire  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:19:59pm

re: #72 palomino

Yes, I have experienced that attitude in a few Brits. "Oh, yes, we have all the mod cons here."

82 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:20:30pm

re: #72 palomino

That analogizes perfectly to the different ways northerners and southerners look at the Civil War.

Southerners are still quite obsessed. Why? Because they lost. The losers remember and carry a chip on their shoulder. The winners move on.

Same is true with the Brits. I've had a few tell me that they "made us" what we are. We may have adopted much of their cultural and legal and political framework, but post-1783, we pretty much had taken off the British training wheels and made ourselves what we are today. But the Brits don't forget. Why? Because they lost.

And we didn't become part of the Commonwealth. Makes a difference, emotionally, I think.

83 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:21:39pm

re: #75 researchok

For us, as kids, America was the land of wonder.

As a kid, I wanted the freedom to be an American. We saw America as 'free', where anything could happen.

You cannot imagine what Disneyland meant to us- such things were not even a part of our dreams!

That brings up something I saw in my Monty Python and Philosophy book...

Basically it boils down to how America is a country sized Disney Land to the British. Because compared to them, we're nothing but a gigantic collection of charicatures who are too exuberant, crazy, and outspoken to be "real"

84 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:21:59pm

re: #73 brookly red

Russia was not Europe? Hmmm, I need a new map.

Russia is both Europe and Asia, and when talking about WWII, is generally not referred to as "Europe". Besides, when you talk about "Europe" being grateful for our military, you really just mean Western Europe, since we never got anywhere near Eastern Europe.

Do you get my point that saying that the Europeans should be grateful for our help during WWII is kind of nuts? They didn't sit back and wait for rescue, they fought tooth and fucking nail. The French collapsed due to bad generalship, but they also had just lost-- as had most countries in Europe-- an entire generation of young men in WWI.

85 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:22:10pm

re: #80 austin_blue

Mine was in Paris. I had a week off from working in the North Sea and my company jetted me down. Found a cheap pension on the left bank and was sitting in a cafe, reading the IHT, having coffee and a croissant, and smoking a Galoise when I hear a commotion and see two fat people walking toward me. Bermuda shorts, Hawaiian shirts and straw hats. The husband has got a big SLR camera bouncing off his belly and opined "Goddamit, Lurleen! We're lost! Doesn't anybody speak American around this hellhole?!?!"

I did my best to slide under the table.

It was my experience that all the Arabs speak English...

86 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:22:50pm

re: #55 brookly red

scorn

Did someone piss in your cornflakes this morning?

87 Jadespring  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:22:56pm

re: #79 palomino

He wanted to be banned? Is it bad form for me to ask why he would want such a thing? When did this happen?

Couple of weeks ago I think. And I have no idea why.

88 Reginald Perrin  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:23:01pm

re: #73 brookly red

Russia was not Europe? Hmmm, I need a new map.

Not all of the WW2 Soviet Union was in Europe, a majority of the country was in Asia.

89 jaunte  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:23:36pm

re: #88 Reginald Perrin

Ural kidding me!

90 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:24:06pm

re: #86 Floral Giraffe

Did someone piss in your cornflakes this morning?

Killgoe got it... whats in your wallet?

91 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:24:32pm

re: #43 Killgore Trout

The Brits are odd. Even with American culture there's still a strange love/hate thing. They really do idolize much of American culture in a strange way.

There's even a UK version of Law & Order now. It's fairly good if that sort of show is your thing.

92 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:25:00pm

re: #80 austin_blue

Mine was in Paris. I had a week off from working in the North Sea and my company jetted me down. Found a cheap pension on the left bank and was sitting in a cafe, reading the IHT, having coffee and a croissant, and smoking a Galoise when I hear a commotion and see two fat people walking toward me. Bermuda shorts, Hawaiian shirts and straw hats. The husband has got a big SLR camera bouncing off his belly and opined "Goddamit, Lurleen! We're lost! Doesn't anybody speak American around this hellhole?!?!"

I did my best to slide under the table.

Oy. Never had an encounter that bad.

My problem is that I look decidedly Spanish, for genetic reasons that make sense, but totally disregard my actual genes. (A Celto-German type mixed with a Semitic type pretty much looks the same no matter when the mix comes in.)

In England, lost Spaniards could pick me out of crowd a mile away. They would run over and start speaking Spanish. Unfortunately, not only don't I speak Spanish, I don't speak a different Spanish from the Spanish they spoke. Giving directions was HILARIOUS. Me, trying to give directions to the Piccadilly Circus station in Mexican Spanish, the tourists saying things like "Are you speaking Spanish now?"

93 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:25:02pm

re: #60 brookly red

speaking of speaking German, where is Cato?

He was banned.

94 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:26:18pm

re: #85 brookly red

It was my experience that all the Arabs speak English...

I met some Israelis in London on the Ghost Walk. I noticed them because they were chatting during the pub stop, and I suddenly realized that the word floating into my ear over and over was 'ruchot'. (Spirits.)

95 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:26:19pm

re: #93 Dark_Falcon

He was banned.

did he have his boots on at least?

96 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:27:09pm

re: #34 SanFranciscoZionist

My all-time favorite Onion piece is the one about the man who was held for years at the zoo because they were convinced he was a giraffe.

9/11 Hijackers Shocked to Find Themselves in Hell

97 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:27:11pm

re: #84 Obdicut

Russia is both Europe and Asia, and when talking about WWII, is generally not referred to as "Europe". Besides, when you talk about "Europe" being grateful for our military, you really just mean Western Europe, since we never got anywhere near Eastern Europe.

Do you get my point that saying that the Europeans should be grateful for our help during WWII is kind of nuts? They didn't sit back and wait for rescue, they fought tooth and fucking nail. The French collapsed due to bad generalship, but they also had just lost-- as had most countries in Europe-- an entire generation of young men in WWI.

Not just bad generalship. France was greatly shocked by the German thrust out of the Ardennes. They did think the Germany attack across the Muese and into their rear was possible and when it proven so panic set in.

98 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:27:27pm

re: #94 SanFranciscoZionist

I met some Israelis in London on the Ghost Walk. I noticed them because they were chatting during the pub stop, and I suddenly realized that the word floating into my ear over and over was 'ruchot'. (Spirits.)

A fine word in a pub methinks...

99 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:27:29pm

re: #91 Dark_Falcon

There's even a UK version of Law & Order now. It's fairly good if that sort of show is your thing.

Really?

Sorry it's just that the British Police look... well silly to me, doubly so with those hats....

100 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:27:33pm

re: #91 Dark_Falcon

There's even a UK version of Law & Order now. It's fairly good if that sort of show is your thing.

OK, this show lasted less than a season, but if you want a fabulous look at British/American culture clash, check out Keen Eddie. About an NYC cop who ends up on long-term loan to Scotland Yard. Sienna Miller is in it.

101 What, me worry?  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:27:51pm

re: #83 jamesfirecat

That brings up something I saw in my Monty Python and Philosophy book...

Basically it boils down to how America is a country sized Disney Land to the British. Because compared to them, we're nothing but a gigantic collection of charicatures who are too exuberant, crazy, and outspoken to be "real"

I was in Israel in 1978. I was 16. I was with a Young Judea group. There were 33 of us from all over the U.S.

We spent an afternoon at the Mediterranean Sea and bumped into a group of young Europeans on holiday. These twin women, maybe in their 20s approached us. To say they were drop dead gorgeous would be underestimating the phrase. Absolutely stunning looking. They were soon joined by two young men, also twins, and also breathtakingly beautiful. Like movie stars, the four of them.

It was very odd, but as the conversation progressed, they were Italian and asked where we were from, etc., it became clear they only came over to bash us. They went on and on about how awful the U.S. is, how we pop a pill for everything. How teenagers have no idea about the world and are just busy getting stoned or laid. We eat junk food all day long. We have terrible health, we're lazy, on and on. Did I mention this was 1978?

We basically stood there dumbfounded, only coming up with an occasional "No, we aren't!" or some such. I mean, we had nothing. They walked away laughing. I think we concluded they were jealous :p

102 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:28:19pm

re: #95 brookly red

did he have his boots on at least?

Just drop it, please. It won't accomplish anything useful, and it will annoy Charles.

103 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:28:52pm

re: #96 Alouette

9/11 Hijackers Shocked to Find Themselves in Hell

:)

That one wasn't really so funny, but they needed to do something with it. IIRC, they stopped publishing for a week after 9/11 and then threw themselves back into it.

104 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:29:11pm

re: #97 Dark_Falcon

Not just bad generalship. France was greatly shocked by the German thrust out of the Ardennes. They did think the Germany attack across the Muese and into their rear was possible and when it proven so panic set in.

Didn't they do the exact same thing in WW1 (All be it less sucessfully though?)

So clearly their generals weren't even "fighting the last war" or they would have seen it coming....

105 darthstar  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:29:17pm

FUCK! Goddamn Phillies.

106 Jadespring  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:29:23pm

re: #91 Dark_Falcon

There's even a UK version of Law & Order now. It's fairly good if that sort of show is your thing.

I like that show.

To be fair though there are a number of British shows where versions have made their way to this side of the pond too.

107 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:29:23pm

re: #102 Dark_Falcon

Just drop it, please. It won't accomplish anything useful, and it will annoy Charles.

I was done 10 posts ago...

108 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:30:51pm

re: #97 Dark_Falcon

I'd say that's an example of bad generalship; not being able to forsee a possible event.

And some still fought, even after losing all leadership.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

109 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:30:52pm

re: #30 researchok

European Anti Americanism is as European, as, well, cheese.

There are a lot of reasons this is so, but for any European (and for that matter, Canadian) politician to ;make his bones', an anti American period is mandatory.

Europeans have a love/hate relationship with Americans.

'We love you because you came from Europe- you are our cousins. We hate you because we are not you'.

The last sentence of this post is an example of why some Europeans and Canadians find some Americans annoying.

110 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:31:18pm

re: #106 Jadespring

I like that show.

To be fair though there are a number of British shows where versions have made their way to this side of the pond too.

I like the original British "Coupling", but apparently the American version was just FAIL.

We can't do that much frank sex. We just can't.

111 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:31:25pm

re: #101 marjoriemoon

I was in Israel in 1978. I was 16. I was with a Young Judea group. There were 33 of us from all over the U.S.

We spent an afternoon at the Mediterranean Sea and bumped into a group of young Europeans on holiday. These twin women, maybe in their 20s approached us. To say they were drop dead gorgeous would be underestimating the phrase. Absolutely stunning looking. They were soon joined by two young men, also twins, and also breathtakingly beautiful. Like movie stars, the four of them.

It was very odd, but as the conversation progressed, they were Italian and asked where we were from, etc., it became clear they only came over to bash us. They went on and on about how awful the U.S. is, how we pop a pill for everything. How teenagers have no idea about the world and are just busy getting stoned or laid. We eat junk food all day long. We have terrible health, we're lazy, on and on. Did I mention this was 1978?

We basically stood there dumbfounded, only coming up with an occasional "No, we aren't!" or some such. I mean, we had nothing. They walked away laughing. I think we concluded they were jealous :p

/should have kicked their asses ;)

112 What, me worry?  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:32:05pm

re: #111 brookly red

/should have kicked their asses ;)

We were too busy getting stoned and laid lol

113 prairiefire  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:32:39pm

Let's see, worst American tourists had to be the young threesome in a Cayman Island disco who kept flinging themselves while dancing into the well dressed local couple trying to just dance.
Worst foreign tourists, a German family who let their children climb and knock around in the inset window sills of an ancient mansion in South Carolina.
Also, the German couple who wanted to sun bathe in the nude in our rented garden and villa in Corfu.

114 Reginald Perrin  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:33:07pm

re: #102 Dark_Falcon

Just drop it, please. It won't accomplish anything useful, and it will annoy Charles.

There is the possibility that is his intent.

115 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:33:20pm

re: #112 marjoriemoon

We were too busy getting stoned and laid lol

sex drug AND violence... what could be more American :)

116 Jadespring  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:33:34pm

re: #110 SanFranciscoZionist

I like the original British "Coupling", but apparently the American version was just FAIL.

We can't do that much frank sex. We just can't.

Yeah some just don't transpose that well. The Office has worked really well though.

117 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:33:59pm

re: #114 Reginald Perrin

There is the possibility that is his intent.

do you have a problem with me Reginald?

118 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:34:45pm

good evening Lizards..another long day here..
I'm not afraid of Heights.. I'm afraid of widths

119 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:35:11pm

re: #108 Obdicut

I'd say that's an example of bad generalship; not being able to forsee a possible event.

And some still fought, even after losing all leadership.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

True. I think my favorite French formation of WWII was Leclerc's 2nd Free French Armored Division. It's ambush of a German Panzer brigade at Dompierre was a triumph of good tactics and the fact that they fought under Patton makes them even better.

120 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:35:25pm

re: #118 HoosierHoops

good evening Lizards..another long day here..
I'm not afraid of Heights.. I'm afraid of widths

phat is scary

121 jaunte  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:35:32pm

re: #118 HoosierHoops

It's scary in the great plains.

122 Henchman 25  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:36:14pm

re: #96 Alouette

Personally, I liked the Family Guy joke where the terrorist guy got into heaven and did indeed find 72 virgins.... 72 high school nerd virgins. :)

123 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:36:23pm

re: #106 Jadespring

I like that show.

To be fair though there are a number of British shows where versions have made their way to this side of the pond too.

Very true. The Office perhaps heads the list. It's a healthy cultural interchange.

124 researchok  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:36:46pm

re: #109 b_sharp

The last sentence of this post is an example of why some Europeans and Canadians find some Americans annoying.

Perhaps- but in no way does it change that reality.

Many eastern Canadians (save for Quebecois) are knee jerk anti American. The NDP, Liberal leader David Ignatieff (who studied at Harvard!) have made clear the ease in how they are ready to criticize Americans. Stephen Harper is often berated for his close ties and support of America.

As a rule, western Canadians are far more apt to be pro America with the exception of British Columbia (their lalaland)

125 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:36:47pm

re: #112 marjoriemoon

We were too busy getting stoned and laid lol

You didn't meet Italians from our town in Italy. We made a point of living off post, and one of our daughters went to school there (Scuola Media Dante Alighieri). A village near us has a statue of a man in coat and fedora, it's a memorial to the villagers who migrated to America. After three years, when we rotated back, her schoolmates gave my daughter an "American Wake".

The local chewing gum is named "Brooklyn".

126 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:39:40pm

re: #118 HoosierHoops

good evening Lizards..another long day here..
I'm not afraid of Heights.. I'm afraid of widths

LOL! They're more afraid of you, than you are of them!

127 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:39:42pm

re: #125 Decatur Deb

You didn't meet Italians from our town in Italy. We made a point of living off post, and one of our daughters went to school there (Scuola Media Dante Alighieri). A village near us has a statue of a man in coat and fedora, it's a memorial to the villagers who migrated to America. After three years, when we rotated back, her schoolmates gave my daughter an "American Wake".

The local chewing gum is named "Brooklyn".

nutin is more American dan Brooklyn!

128 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:40:37pm

re: #106 Jadespring

I like that show.

To be fair though there are a number of British shows where versions have made their way to this side of the pond too.

The (original) British version of "The Office" is so thoroughly superior to the US version that it makes my teeth itch. I was embarrassed when NBC announced they were going to rip it off Americanize it.

129 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:41:17pm

re: #123 Dark_Falcon

Very true. The Office perhaps heads the list. It's a healthy cultural interchange.

It is interesting to see the differences. The UK version of the Office was infinitely smarter than the American version. In general their TV is much better than ours. There's still a strong effort on British TV to educate. I love their food, cooking and gardening shows.

130 austin_blue  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:42:03pm

re: #93 Dark_Falcon

He was banned.

Really? He has shuffled off this virtual coil?

Why?

131 What, me worry?  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:42:06pm

re: #113 prairiefire

Let's see, worst American tourists had to be the young threesome in a Cayman Island disco who kept flinging themselves while dancing into the well dressed local couple trying to just dance.
Worst foreign tourists, a German family who let their children climb and knock around in the inset window sills of an ancient mansion in South Carolina.
Also, the German couple who wanted to sun bathe in the nude in our rented garden and villa in Corfu.

When I first moved to FL, I worked as a hostess in one of the hotels on N Miami Beach. Whenever we had French tourists, the women always removed their bikini tops at the pool. Of course, this was not allowed. There was about 5 pool guys working at any given shift and they always fought over who would tell them to put their tops back on.

132 austin_blue  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:43:09pm

re: #85 brookly red

It was my experience that all the Arabs speak English...

Not mine. Most were Algerians.

133 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:43:11pm

re: #126 Floral Giraffe

LOL! They're more afraid of you, than you are of them!

Hi Cutie! Think I'll fix a Grey Goose and OJ and relax tonight..What a day!
Any good fights going on? LOL

134 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:43:15pm

re: #131 marjoriemoon

LOL!

135 researchok  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:44:00pm

re: #129 Killgore Trout

It is interesting to see the differences. The UK version of the Office was infinitely smarter than the American version. In general their TV is much better than ours. There's still a strong effort on British TV to educate. I love their food, cooking and gardening shows.

It seems to me that Americans still prefer a bit of slapstick', be it physical or verbal in their humor.

Brit humor is still predicated mostly on teh dry and double entendre variety.

136 Jadespring  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:44:51pm

re: #124 researchok

Perhaps- but in no way does it change that reality.

Many eastern Canadians (save for Quebecois) are knee jerk anti American. The NDP, Liberal leader David Ignatieff (who studied at Harvard!) have made clear the ease in how they are ready to criticize Americans. Stephen Harper is often berated for his close ties and support of America.

As a rule, western Canadians are far more apt to be pro America with the exception of British Columbia (their lalaland)

Being critical of something that is happening in the US does not mean 'anti-american.' At various times US admins and politicians have posed criticisms of Canadian stances or policies (Iraq War comes to mind) as well. Doesn't make them anti-Canadian. And while I do acknowledge that anti-american sentiment exists within the Canadian populace and some may very well be knee-jerk for some I hear and read about the same sort of sentiment about Canada from many in the south as well. (Just start a convo on the net about our healthcare system on some places on the net and the vitrol flies) We're our own country and tied quite closely to the States on many different levels those ties though don't preclude not liking particular things that the other does or promotes and being critical of them.

137 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:44:51pm

re: #130 austin_blue

Really? He has shuffled off this virtual coil?

Why?

He dared Charles to ban him.. Which may be the stupidest thing to do on a blog..Any Blog.. Dumb ass Cato

138 Reginald Perrin  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:44:53pm

re: #117 brookly red

do you have a problem with me Reginald?


None whatsoever, you're are someone else's problem and invisible to me.
SEP
I promise to scroll by all your comments, except for the ones that have been down-dinged

139 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:45:02pm

re: #132 austin_blue

Not mine. Most were Algerians.

we got along OK...

140 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:45:48pm

re: #130 austin_blue

Really? He has shuffled off this virtual coil?

Why?

Suffice it to say he smarted off at Charles about LGF's subscription service. He implied it (and LGF) was a lower value for him than the Baltimore Sun. Having forgiven Cato for his earlier flounce, Charles saw no reason to tolerate having his forgiveness repaid with a insult. So he pushed the ban button.

141 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:46:53pm

re: #124 researchok

Perhaps- but in no way does it change that reality.

Many eastern Canadians (save for Quebecois) are knee jerk anti American. The NDP, Liberal leader David Ignatieff (who studied at Harvard!) have made clear the ease in how they are ready to criticize Americans. Stephen Harper is often berated for his close ties and support of America.

As a rule, western Canadians are far more apt to be pro America with the exception of British Columbia (their lalaland)

It is the American arrogance, not our jealousy that drives Canadian anti-American sentiment.

Your comment that ended with the assumption that Europeans and Canadians don't like Americans because we are jealous of you in some way shows the arrogance too many Americans carry with them when they visit other countries. Dump the personal arrogance, and the anti-American sentiment will be reduced to those who are pissed at the US's political arrogance in interfering with other countries. Stop that, and very few will be anti-American.

Some people will always be anti-American, some of them because of jealousy, but I have never met any C

142 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:47:01pm

I've been in Europe twice. Once in June 2008 before Obama was elected and in the summer of 09 when Obama was elected. I'll be honest. I didn't really feel any hostility towards me either time. I'm terrible at foreign languages but I do have an eager and healthy interest in European history and culture. One of my best experiences as an American abroad was last year when I was coming back from County Kerry making a stop in Limerick or County Clare. Anyhow, I was out of money at the moment and I was eyeing one of those family surname history things that they do for you. I just wanted to look at my dad's mom's maiden name(I'm Irish through her) so I was curious about the time. The Irish gentleman running the stand asked me if I was American to which I told him I was and he's like well I'll do ya a favor here and give you one for free just don't tell anyone. It was really cool of him. I have the name history framed on my bedroom wall now. In Vienna the previous year I met a Slovak bartender and I'm part Slovak too and she loved that. I think the best thing to do when abroad is just act respectful.

143 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:47:08pm

re: #127 brookly red

nutin is more American dan Brooklyn!

Image: etc1.jpg

144 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:47:10pm

re: #138 Reginald Perrin

None whatsoever, you're are someone else's problem and invisible to me.
SEP
I promise to scroll by all your comments, except for the ones that have been down-dinged

that would just fine Reggie..

145 Usually refered to as anyways  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:47:24pm

I wish her luck and safety

Young mum is top cop in drug town

146 researchok  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:48:21pm

re: #129 Killgore Trout

It is interesting to see the differences. The UK version of the Office was infinitely smarter than the American version. In general their TV is much better than ours. There's still a strong effort on British TV to educate. I love their food, cooking and gardening shows.

Also, there is nothing that can compete with the UK 'Eye' on the Eccentric' type of show.

That, and the yearly Holiday interview of one Mrs Whittington type who announces that she will no longer be setiing a place for her husband at the holiday table.

'E went out for a packet pf cigarettes in 1971 and never came back. I simply cannot wait forever'.

147 What, me worry?  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:48:26pm

re: #135 researchok

It seems to me that Americans still prefer a bit of slapstick', be it physical or verbal in their humor.

Brit humor is still predicated mostly on teh dry and double entendre variety.

What I find fascinating is the difference in our commercials. Europeans seem to have much more interesting adverts. For all that sex we're having, we're really very puritanical.

148 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:49:01pm

re: #143 Decatur Deb

Image: etc1.jpg

actually you would be surprised how many folks think Brooklyn is a State...

149 researchok  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:49:04pm

re: #147 marjoriemoon

What I find fascinating is the difference in our commercials. Europeans seem to have much more interesting adverts. For all that sex we're having, we're really very puritanical.

Now that's on the money!

150 Reginald Perrin  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:49:30pm

re: #142 HappyWarrior

I think the best thing to do when abroad is just act respectful.

You nailed it.

151 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:50:17pm

re: #135 researchok

It seems to me that Americans still prefer a bit of slapstick', be it physical or verbal in their humor.

Sight gags and sarcasm. With rare exception, that's American TV humor.

152 prairiefire  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:50:18pm

re: #135 researchok

Speaking of slapstick, the ending of the episode of "Modern Family" with the mishaps of the old family station wagon had me doubled over with laughter.

153 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:50:58pm

re: #135 researchok

It seems to me that Americans still prefer a bit of slapstick', be it physical or verbal in their humor.

Amercian audiences seem to prefer a laugh track for some reason, need to be told when something is funny, usually because it isn't. 30 Rock and Community are real anomalies.

154 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:51:58pm

re: #148 brookly red

actually you would be surprised how many folks think Brooklyn is a State...

No, no I would not. Sadly.

155 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:52:08pm

re: #153 goddamnedfrank

Amercian audiences seem to prefer a laugh track for some reason, need to be told when something is funny, usually because it isn't. 30 Rock and Community are real anomalies.

Arrested Development got by without a laugh track.

As did Frasier....

156 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:53:02pm

re: #150 Reginald Perrin

You nailed it.


What humbles me everytime I've been abroad is knowing that so much history has taken place where I've been. My lodging in Prague for instance had been a Soviet officers' barracks I believe when the Soviets invaded Czechoslovakia and got the Germans out in '45. And seeing a centuries old Jewish cemetry was just awe striking. I also still tear up a little thinking about Dachau.

157 researchok  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:53:09pm

re: #152 prairiefire

Speaking of slapstick, the ending of the episode of "Modern Family" with the mishaps of the old family station wagon had me doubled over with laughter.

You aren't alone.

The word 'classic' comes to mind. The show is a winner

158 prairiefire  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:53:37pm

re: #142 HappyWarrior

Definitely. I will never forget the English telephone operator who kindly said, "Why don't you try again tomorrow, love." I was sobbing with homesickness and no one was home from school or work yet to answer the phone.

159 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:53:50pm

re: #155 jamesfirecat

Arrested Development got by without a laugh track.

As did Frasier...

I like 2 1/2 men...It's funny..But this last year we all figured who the 1/2 man was..

160 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:54:02pm

re: #141 b_sharp

It is the American arrogance, not our jealousy that drives Canadian anti-American sentiment.

Your comment that ended with the assumption that Europeans and Canadians don't like Americans because we are jealous of you in some way shows the arrogance too many Americans carry with them when they visit other countries. Dump the personal arrogance, and the anti-American sentiment will be reduced to those who are pissed at the US's political arrogance in interfering with other countries. Stop that, and very few will be anti-American.

Some people will always be anti-American, some of them because of jealousy, but I have never met any C

Americans have much to be proud about. That pride sometimes gets mistaken for arrogance. Moreover, many Canadians seem to attack the US as a way of establish themselves as different than Americans.

161 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:54:09pm

re: #148 brookly red

actually you would be surprised how many folks think Brooklyn is a State...

Come to think of it we should petition for statehood... we got a population of over 2 million & an official boid...

yeah, Brooklyn, the fuck yous state! Oh I can't wait!

162 researchok  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:54:31pm

re: #153 goddamnedfrank

Amercian audiences seem to prefer a laugh track for some reason, need to be told when something is funny, usually because it isn't. 30 Rock and Community are real anomalies.

I don't why that is. That remains a mystery to me.

Laugh tracks aren't common in Europe,

163 Jadespring  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:54:42pm

re: #141 b_sharp

Yeah the 'they don't like us cause they are jealous' meme is really lame.

I didn't want to bring that up because I love the majority of people who post here and don't find that sort of sentiment highly pervasive in this particular community so don't want to come off and generally insulting, but in my travels and work have met up with it a lot.

Mostly we just roll our eyes and shake our heads but yeah it is pretty annoying. I could relate dozens, upon dozens of stories where that particular sentiment has come up.

164 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:54:50pm

re: #153 goddamnedfrank

Amercian audiences seem to prefer a laugh track for some reason, need to be told when something is funny, usually because it isn't. 30 Rock and Community are real anomalies.

The sad thing is, I can't think of anything genuinely funny on TV that wouldn't be improved by the absence of the laugh track.

I'm just happy the studios never insisted on a "gasp track" for The Twilight Zone".

165 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:55:41pm

re: #164 negativ

The sad thing is, I can't think of anything genuinely funny on TV that wouldn't be improved by the absence of the laugh track.

I'm just happy the studios never insisted on a "gasp track" for The Twilight Zone".

WHAT A TWIST!

166 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:55:47pm

re: #155 jamesfirecat

Arrested Development got by without a laugh track.

As did Frasier...

Arrested Development was too good, got killed by FOX for being topical (Bluth - Hussein partnership, Mission Accomplished, etc.)

Frasier was awful, which explains why it just wouldn't die.

167 researchok  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:55:47pm

re: #155 jamesfirecat

Arrested Development got by without a laugh track.

As did Frasier...

Frazier was great. It was the closets thing to a Brit comedy, in my opion.

They writers never, ever talked down to their audience.

168 researchok  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:57:29pm

re: #166 goddamnedfrank

Arrested Development was too good, got killed by FOX for being topical (Bluth - Hussein partnership, Mission Accomplished, etc.)

Frasier was awful, which explains why it just wouldn't die.

I would have thought you'd have like Frazier- it was quite witty and sharp at times.

169 prairiefire  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:58:45pm

re: #136 Jadespring

We could never beat you in a war and we gave up trying!

170 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:58:54pm

re: #167 researchok

Frazier was great. It was the closets thing to a Brit comedy, in my opion.

They writers never, ever talked down to their audience.

I really liked it for Kelsey Grammer, he did a great job in that show... hell he played the same character for like 20 years, live action to not just an animated voice.... that has to be like a rechord....

171 Jadespring  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:59:41pm

re: #169 prairiefire

We could never beat you in a war and we gave up trying!

Hee. :)

172 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:00:53pm

re: #141 b_sharp

Very true. I had a blast, the times I traveled in Europe. I mangled the host country's language, but I tried! And people appreciated the effort. I need to get back to traveling. Hmm, where to start...

173 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:01:01pm

One-handed model in bra becomes overnight sensation

A one-handed model who posed in a bra for a charity ad campaign has become a European sensation.

The 35-year-old graphic designer has been swamped with requests for interviews from around Europe after appearing in a print ad for CAP48, a nonprofit organization that highlights disability issues in France and Belgium, Britain’s Daily Mail newspaper reported.

Tanja Kiewitz, who was born with her left arm ending just below her elbow, is featured wearing a low-cut black bra, with a tagline that translates from French as: “Look me in the eyes … I said the eyes.”

No dice, lady. If you're going to model a low cut bra like that, it's your boobs I'm going to pay attention to.

/Sorry, I'm a guy.

174 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:01:04pm

re: #160 Dark_Falcon

Americans have much to be proud about. That pride sometimes gets mistaken for arrogance. Moreover, many Canadians seem to attack the US as a way of establish themselves as different than Americans.

Yes, Americans have much to be proud of, but so do Canadians. There is no reason for Canadians to be jealous of Americans, none. Of all the people I know with an anti-American lean, and that included myself up to a few years ago, that sentiment is based on many things, but not because of jealously.

175 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:01:13pm

re: #135 researchok

It seems to me that Americans still prefer a bit of slapstick', be it physical or verbal in their humor.

Brit humor is still predicated mostly on teh dry and double entendre variety.

Americans have a German sense of humor. Makes sense, culturally, confuses the hell out of everyone.

176 researchok  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:01:37pm

re: #170 jamesfirecat

I really liked it for Kelsey Grammer, he did a great job in that show... hell he played the same character for like 20 years, live action to not just an animated voice... that has to be like a rechord...

The repartee between Frazier and Niles alone made the show worth watching.

The dad, the producer and the occasional Lilith episode were just the icing.

177 rwmofo  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:01:47pm

Hey, has anyone seen RED yet?

For some reason I want all my future girlfriends to have a little something in common with Helen Mirren. Don't know why...

178 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:02:10pm

re: #142 HappyWarrior

Respect goes a LONG way!
Great story of your trip!

179 researchok  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:02:14pm

re: #175 SanFranciscoZionist

Americans have a German sense of humor. Makes sense, culturally, confuses the hell out of everyone.

*just spewed water*

180 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:02:29pm

re: #129 Killgore Trout

There is also QI, the best TV quiz show ever.

181 prairiefire  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:02:39pm

Elvira spoofs Christine O'Donnell[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

182 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:03:01pm

re: #173 Dark_Falcon

One-handed model in bra becomes overnight sensation

No dice, lady. If you're going to model a low cut bra like that, it's your boobs I'm going to pay attention to.

/Sorry, I'm a guy.

I can't do either.

Sorry but it trips the Uncanny Valley for me.

I like my women like I like my cars, symetrical!

183 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:03:35pm

re: #145 ozbloke

I wish her luck and safety

Young mum is top cop in drug town

Damn. Now that would be a cop show.

Prayers in her direction.

184 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:03:44pm

re: #177 rwmofo

Hey, has anyone seen RED yet?

For some reason I want all my future girlfriends to have a little something in common with Helen Mirren. Don't know why...

red is just a state of mind... can you dig it?

185 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:03:57pm

re: #172 Floral Giraffe

Very true. I had a blast, the times I traveled in Europe. I mangled the host country's language, but I tried! And people appreciated the effort. I need to get back to traveling. Hmm, where to start...

This used to be Elderhostel, but they have opened to all ages.

[Link: www.google.com...]

186 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:04:03pm

re: #175 SanFranciscoZionist

Americans have a German sense of humor. Makes sense, culturally, confuses the hell out of everyone.

POLLLANNNDD!

POLLLANDDDD!

187 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:04:16pm

re: #147 marjoriemoon

What I find fascinating is the difference in our commercials. Europeans seem to have much more interesting adverts. For all that sex we're having, we're really very puritanical.

Oh yeah.

188 researchok  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:04:28pm

re: #177 rwmofo

Hey, has anyone seen RED yet?

For some reason I want all my future girlfriends to have a little something in common with Helen Mirren. Don't know why...

Or anything with Patricia Routledge

Anything!

She did 'Keeping Up Appearances' and 'Hetty Wainthropp Investigates' were perfect.

189 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:04:43pm

re: #180 Obdicut

Nice to see Rich Hall is still getting work.

190 rwmofo  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:04:48pm

re: #173 Dark_Falcon

One-handed model in bra becomes overnight sensation

No dice, lady. If you're going to model a low cut bra like that, it's your boobs I'm going to pay attention to.

/Sorry, I'm a guy.

Don't bother apologizing to me.

191 darthstar  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:05:04pm

re: #177 rwmofo

Hey, has anyone seen RED yet?

For some reason I want all my future girlfriends to have a little something in common with Helen Mirren. Don't know why...

This Red was an excellent film, as were Blue and White

192 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:05:30pm

re: #167 researchok

Frazier was great. It was the closets thing to a Brit comedy, in my opion.

They writers never, ever talked down to their audience.

I thought it was tiresome.

193 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:05:34pm

re: #177 rwmofo

Hey, has anyone seen RED yet?

For some reason I want all my future girlfriends to have a little something in common with Helen Mirren. Don't know why...

Ageing well, having a strong sense of person, and well, HOT?

194 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:05:53pm

re: #177 rwmofo

Hey, has anyone seen RED yet?

For some reason I want all my future girlfriends to have a little something in common with Helen Mirren. Don't know why...


I saw it two weeks ago on the 4th.

Not that I'm barging about how my start up company job got me 4 tickets to a premiere showing or anything....

195 Jadespring  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:06:14pm

Well to be fair I have met lots of European tourists who have expressed jealously of Canada and a strong desire to move here. Doesn't have anything to do with our politics or culture though. It's a jealously of the vast swaths of natural beauty and relatively untouched and not crowded outdoor spaces. :)

196 researchok  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:06:21pm

re: #192 SanFranciscoZionist

I thought it was tiresome.

I loved that show.

Must be a guy thing....

197 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:07:27pm

re: #177 rwmofo

Hey, has anyone seen RED yet?

For some reason I want all my future girlfriends to have a little something in common with Helen Mirren. Don't know why...

I've seen it. It's fairly good. Not really memorable, but good. The only real grip I have is that they cast Julian McMahon as the bad-guy vice president but didn't really use him. His "bad-guy charm" could have worked well in the movie.

198 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:08:14pm

re: #192 SanFranciscoZionist

I thought it was tiresome.

I did too. It was massively predictable. They may not have talked down to their audience, but the plots were telegraphed from about a mile away.

"FRASIER'S ABOUT TO LEARN ABOUT LIFE FROM A WORKING CLASS PERSON-- HERE IT COMES..."

199 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:08:20pm

re: #179 researchok

*just spewed water*

Well, we do. Seriously. We'd notice if it wasn't for the Germans speaking, well, German.

200 APox  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:08:46pm

Because vaccinations are evvvvil: [Link: m.cnn.com...]

... Hard to make light of this sad story.

201 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:09:16pm

re: #199 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, we do. Seriously. We'd notice if it wasn't for the Germans speaking, well, German.

I hear Hogan's Heroes does very well in Germany.... which makes about as much sense of Medal of Honor Pacific Campaign selling well in Japan if you stop to think about it...

202 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:09:32pm

re: #195 Jadespring

Well to be fair I have met lots of European tourists who have expressed jealously of Canada and a strong desire to move here. Doesn't have anything to do with our politics or culture though. It's a jealously of the vast swaths of natural beauty and relatively untouched and not crowded outdoor spaces. :)

You won't like them as much once they cut down all your trees and fill the tundra with rowhouses.

203 austin_blue  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:09:40pm

re: #182 jamesfirecat

I can't do either.

Sorry but it trips the Uncanny Valley for me.

I like my women like I like my cars, symetrical!

But that's why it's not called a hands job.

204 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:09:59pm

re: #200 APox

broken link.

205 researchok  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:10:02pm

re: #195 Jadespring

Well to be fair I have met lots of European tourists who have expressed jealously of Canada and a strong desire to move here. Doesn't have anything to do with our politics or culture though. It's a jealously of the vast swaths of natural beauty and relatively untouched and not crowded outdoor spaces. :)

I've been to Montreal (that and SF are my two favorite cities), Banff, Lake Louise, etc as well as Halifax and NS. I've even been to Winnipeg which shocked me. That is no backwater, by any means.

Unbelievable beauty- and great, great people.

206 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:10:46pm

re: #185 Decatur Deb

This used to be Elderhostel, but they have opened to all ages.

[Link: www.google.com...]

Favorited, to look at later.
With evil intent! And itchy feet!
Thank you!

207 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:10:55pm

re: #202 Killgore Trout

You won't like them as much once they cut down all your trees and fill the tundra with rowhouses.


damn straight! that's our job!

208 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:11:03pm

re: #201 jamesfirecat

I hear Hogan's Heroes does very well in Germany... which makes about as much sense of Medal of Honor Pacific Campaign selling well in Japan if you stop to think about it...

I hear Baywatch does very well in Germany.

This does not say a whole lot for Germans, but as a proud citizen of the country that produced the thing, what can I say?

209 prairiefire  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:11:36pm

re: #205 researchok

Do not cross the street before the light says "go". They will cut you./

210 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:11:44pm

re: #205 researchok

I've been to Montreal (that and SF are my two favorite cities), Banff, Lake Louise, etc as well as Halifax and NS. I've even been to Winnipeg which shocked me. That is no backwater, by any means.

Unbelievable beauty- and great, great people.

I have never been to Canada. I am told I need to fix that.

211 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:12:26pm

re: #208 SanFranciscoZionist

I hear Baywatch does very well in Germany.

This does not say a whole lot for Germans, but as a proud citizen of the country that produced the thing, what can I say?

Germans like blonds... Germans like boobs. Why would it not do well?

212 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:12:33pm

re: #208 SanFranciscoZionist

I hear Baywatch does very well in Germany.

This does not say a whole lot for Germans, but as a proud citizen of the country that produced the thing, what can I say?

Well the star of Baywatch, David Hasselhoff, is German. So the show had a built in angle right there.

213 jaunte  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:12:45pm

re: #210 SanFranciscoZionist

If you go by canoe in the boundary waters wilderness, you can sneak in.

214 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:13:28pm

re: #213 jaunte

If you go by canoe in the boundary waters wilderness, you can sneak in.

I was thinking of just flying to Montreal or something, but I guess that might work too.

215 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:13:31pm

re: #208 SanFranciscoZionist

David Hasselhof's career was made in Germany.
Go figure!
They love him!

216 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:13:55pm

re: #212 Dark_Falcon

Well the star of Baywatch, David Hasselhoff, is German. So the show had a built in angle right there.

Lets we all forget Germans Love David Hasselhoff

(Warning it's a TV tropes link, prepare to kiss the rest of your night goodbye after clicking...)

217 researchok  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:14:00pm

re: #210 SanFranciscoZionist

I have never been to Canada. I am told I need to fix that.

You have got to visit Montreal. It really is 'Half New York and Half 'Paree'.

The food is extraordinary, the culture has real depth and people are just...incroyable.

218 Jadespring  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:14:09pm

re: #205 researchok

I've been to Montreal (that and SF are my two favorite cities), Banff, Lake Louise, etc as well as Halifax and NS. I've even been to Winnipeg which shocked me. That is no backwater, by any means.

Unbelievable beauty- and great, great people.

Yeah Winnipeg gets a bum rap at times. It's a neat city. I've driven across Canada from Ontario to BC a few times. Lived on the West Coast before I moved here. Also lived in the Yukon for a bit, that was wild. Actually anywhere in the north of the provinces is pretty wild. I haven't made it to the East Coast yet though but it's on the list.

219 rwmofo  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:14:58pm

re: #211 brookly red

Germans like blonds... Germans like boobs. Why would it not do well?

Wait a minute. I'm not German. Dude. OK, I'll put the bong down...but just for a few minutes while I try to figure this out.

220 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:15:13pm

re: #210 SanFranciscoZionist

Vancouver was very beautiful.
The people were nice, and it was a good multi-culti mix, as any big city should do well.

221 Jadespring  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:15:42pm

re: #210 SanFranciscoZionist

I have never been to Canada. I am told I need to fix that.

Well if you ever make it to my neck of the woods I'll show you around. :)

222 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:15:48pm

re: #217 researchok

You have got to visit Montreal. It really is 'Half New York and Half 'Paree'.

The food is extraordinary, the culture has real depth and people are just...incroyable.

I love Montreal!

223 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:16:23pm

re: #219 rwmofo

Wait a minute. I'm not German. Dude. OK, I'll put the bong down...but just for a few minutes while I try to figure this out.

maybe you have German roots... do you like beer?

224 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:16:32pm

re: #222 HoosierHoops

I love Montreal!

Hey Hoops!

225 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:17:07pm

re: #207 brookly red

damn straight! that's our job!

Sorry Brookly, but you'll never get a chance to cut all our trees down, we're way ahead of you. We're putting together a huge attack armada of canoes that will be used to attack and capture the White House and rule over you Americans with an iron fist. A polite iron fist.

226 Jadespring  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:17:24pm

re: #220 Floral Giraffe

Vancouver was very beautiful.
The people were nice, and it was a good multi-culti mix, as any big city should do well.

Vancouver is awesome. I'll admit my bias though. I grew up there.

The only reason I'm not still there is because one it's super expensive to live in well and I'm not into cities. If I was forced to choose a city though that would be it.

227 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:17:38pm

re: #224 LudwigVanQuixote

Hey Hoops!

Hi Lugwig! just settling down here in College Town..
Hope you are well

228 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:17:49pm

re: #225 b_sharp

Sorry Brookly, but you'll never get a chance to cut all our trees down, we're way ahead of you. We're putting together a huge attack armada of canoes that will be used to attack and capture the White House and rule over you Americans with an iron fist. A polite iron fist.

take a number & cue up...

229 researchok  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:18:22pm

re: #218 Jadespring

Yeah Winnipeg gets a bum rap at times. It's a neat city. I've driven across Canada from Ontario to BC a few times. Lived on the West Coast before I moved here. Also lived in the Yukon for a bit, that was wild. Actually anywhere in the north of the provinces is pretty wild. I haven't made it to the East Coast yet though but it's on the list.

WOW- that's some trip!

Winnipeg has great food and incredible music. There was a Jazz cafe run by some Polish guy that was just outstanding.

As for Montreal, it really is one of the world's great cities. Toronto is nice, a creative center, etc, but it just doesn't have the soul Montreal has. I do recall making a point to see the statue of the 'Kind of Kensington'. We used to watch that regularly. I could identify with his world (read: Neighborhood).

I was also in Hamilton (factory town, sort of) but I actually liked the character of the place.

230 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:18:31pm

re: #206 Floral Giraffe

Their big savings trick is that they often use accommodations at out-of -cycle colleges, and even convents, IIRC.

231 researchok  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:19:07pm

re: #222 HoosierHoops

I love Montreal!

Clearly, you are a man of exquisite taste and refinement.

232 rwmofo  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:19:12pm

re: #223 brookly red

maybe you have German roots... do you like beer?

Let's just say that the definition of an alcohol problem for me is when I don't have any.

233 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:19:45pm

re: #210 SanFranciscoZionist

I have never been to Canada. I am told I need to fix that.

Please. Just make it in summer.

Although if you do come up to Saskatchewan in winter I can certainly throw together a comfortable guest igloo for you. I'll even put a door on it to keep out the dogs. They're friendly as can be but, depending on what I catch to feed them, they can get pretty gassy.

234 lostlakehiker  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:19:52pm

re: #18 SanFranciscoZionist

As someone who lives in a major tourist destination area, I would like to politely comment that Europeans are not, actually, nearly as polite or culturally adaptable as they would like to believe.

That may have more to do with the specific destination than with Europeans. At destinations where every other class of visitor, black, white, Asian, Mexican...gives hope that the world may yet turn out just fine, Europeans do not disappoint.

Yes, such destinations exist. After ruling out the national parks you know do not begin to fit that description, you're there.

235 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:20:16pm

re: #232 rwmofo

Let's just say that the definition of an alcohol problem for me is when I don't have any.

///For me its two hands two beers, one mouth.

236 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:20:26pm

re: #233 b_sharp

Please. Just make it in summer.

Although if you do come up to Saskatchewan in winter I can certainly throw together a comfortable guest igloo for you. I'll even put a door on it to keep out the dogs. They're friendly as can be but, depending on what I catch to feed them, they can get pretty gassy.

Oh, the dogs can come in. I love dogs. Even gassy dogs.

:)

237 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:21:19pm

re: #232 rwmofo

Let's just say that the definition of an alcohol problem for me is when I don't have any.

damn busted! I need to uhh take a walk... yeah you know to the bodega... just a walk.

238 lostlakehiker  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:21:33pm

re: #213 jaunte

If you go by canoe in the boundary waters wilderness, you can sneak in.

The difficult part is sneaking out on the other side. The road net is heavily patrolled. Even in the good old days of little security, one got a grilling upon emerging from that labyrinth.

239 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:21:46pm

re: #234 lostlakehiker

That may have more to do with the specific destination than with Europeans. At destinations where every other class of visitor, black, white, Asian, Mexican...gives hope that the world may yet turn out just fine, Europeans do not disappoint.

Yes, such destinations exist. After ruling out the national parks you know do not begin to fit that description, you're there.

Would you like to translate that, because I'm not entirely sure what you just said?

240 jaunte  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:22:11pm

re: #214 SanFranciscoZionist

I was thinking of just flying to Montreal or something, but I guess that might work too.

Here's some of the scenery there. It's wonderfully quiet.
Image: File:Pose_lake_Minnesota.jpg

241 rwmofo  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:22:22pm

re: #236 SanFranciscoZionist

Who's in your avatar?

242 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:23:30pm

re: #236 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, the dogs can come in. I love dogs. Even gassy dogs.

:)

/canine flatulence is a major contributor of green house gases...

243 shutdown  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:23:42pm

re: #234 lostlakehiker

That may have more to do with the specific destination than with Europeans. At destinations where every other class of visitor, black, white, Asian, Mexican...gives hope that the world may yet turn out just fine, Europeans do not disappoint.

Yes, such destinations exist. After ruling out the national parks you know do not begin to fit that description, you're there.

The Dutch, British and Germans have miserable reputations as tourists. One of these groups regularly ranks ahead of Americans in "ugly tourist" polls. Ask the Spanish how they feel about the summer beach season.

244 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:24:21pm

re: #231 researchok

Clearly, you are a man of exquisite taste and refinement.

Last summer I did a top 10 cities that I love list.. If I recall Montreal came in #5. Just a wonderful place to visit...I could live there

245 Jadespring  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:24:31pm

re: #229 researchok

WOW- that's some trip!

Winnipeg has great food and incredible music. There was a Jazz cafe run by some Polish guy that was just outstanding.

As for Montreal, it really is one of the world's great cities. Toronto is nice, a creative center, etc, but it just doesn't have the soul Montreal has. I do recall making a point to see the statue of the 'Kind of Kensington'. We used to watch that regularly. I could identify with his world (read: Neighborhood).

I was also in Hamilton (factory town, sort of) but I actually liked the character of the place.

Yeah that's a good way of describing them. I have been to Montreal but would like to go back. I didn't experience enough of it at the time. Toronto is now the big city I go when I do the big city thing. Usually to visit relatives and to see show or go to some big event. I would never want to live there though, too sprawly and with dull scenery as far as cities go. I got spoiled by Vancouver. If I had to choose a big Ontario city to live in I'd choose Ottawa. I just like the way it looks plus it just has a really neat atmosphere.

I've spent quite a bit of time around the Hamilton area too. It is a old factory town and has that air about it. Was huge mob town as well.

246 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:24:36pm

re: #241 rwmofo

Who's in your avatar?

Achinoam Nini and Mira Awad. Israeli-Jewish and Israeli-Arab singers, who went to Eurovision together to represent Israel.

They sang a song called "There Must Be Another Way".

247 researchok  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:25:21pm

re: #244 HoosierHoops

Last summer I did a top 10 cities that I love list.. If I recall Montreal came in #5. Just a wonderful place to visit...I could live there

I hear that. I just loved the city, the European feel, etc.

Maybe we could be neighbors.

248 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:25:27pm

Greetings, fellow human/monkey hybrid science tyrants!
;)

249 rwmofo  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:25:28pm

SF 5 - PH 4

Top of the 6th.

250 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:25:30pm

re: #243 imp_62

The Dutch, British and Germans have miserable reputations as tourists. One of these groups regularly ranks ahead of Americans in "ugly tourist" polls. Ask the Spanish how they feel about the summer beach season.

Brits can't help it. They're irresistably attracted to sun. And Spain is so close...so very close...and you can get chips...

251 APox  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:25:44pm

Hmm let's try that again from an actual computer: The vaccines, they are evil!

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

252 Ojoe  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:25:45pm

Please do not vote for any incumbents in the November election. If you can't bring yourself to vote D or R, there are plenty of "fringe" parties, or write in your own name. It is no use to reward an incumbent for the mess we are in; remember, if you reward something, you get more of it. Thank you.

253 darthstar  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:26:10pm

I'm not Jewish, but I'm willing to learn.

254 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:26:16pm

re: #242 brookly red

/canine flatulence is a major contributor of green brown house gases...

255 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:26:31pm

re: #250 SanFranciscoZionist

Brits can't help it. They're irresistably attracted to sun. And Spain is so close...so very close...and you can get chips...

they had a war or two over that no?

256 rwmofo  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:27:05pm

re: #246 SanFranciscoZionist

Achinoam Nini and Mira Awad. Israeli-Jewish and Israeli-Arab singers, who went to Eurovision together to represent Israel.

They sang a song called "There Must Be Another Way".

Cool. If only....

257 shutdown  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:27:17pm

re: #252 Ojoe

Please do not vote for any incumbents in the November election. If you can't bring yourself to vote D or R, there are plenty of "fringe" parties, or write in your own name. It is no use to reward an incumbent for the mess we are in; remember, if you reward something, you get more of it. Thank you.

In NY, there is always the Rent is Too Damn High Party. That Jimmy McMillan is starting to grow on me.

258 prairiefire  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:27:48pm

re: #245 Jadespring

If you go to Montreal, the Holiday Inn in China Town was a great stay. Within walking distance of the Cathedral, historic district and the waterway. 2 blocks from a fabulous Korean bakery.

259 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:27:53pm

re: #252 Ojoe

Please do not vote for any incumbents in the November election. If you can't bring yourself to vote D or R, there are plenty of "fringe" parties, or write in your own name. It is no use to reward an incumbent for the mess we are in; remember, if you reward something, you get more of it. Thank you.

Just because someone is an incumbent that does not make them the spawn of Satan Ojoe.

How about just asking people not to vote for any idiots who will make the situation worse instead of better in Washington?

260 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:27:59pm

re: #257 imp_62

In NY, there is always the Rent is Too Damn High Party. That Jimmy McMillan is starting to grow on me.

you know I am leaning that way...

261 rwmofo  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:28:11pm

re: #244 HoosierHoops

Last summer I did a top 10 cities that I love list.. If I recall Montreal came in #5. Just a wonderful place to visit...I could live there

Portland, OR ranks pretty high for me.

262 researchok  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:28:55pm

re: #245 Jadespring

Yeah that's a good way of describing them. I have been to Montreal but would like to go back. I didn't experience enough of it at the time. Toronto is now the big city I go when I do the big city thing. Usually to visit relatives and to see show or go to some big event. I would never want to live there though, too sprawly and with dull scenery as far as cities go. I got spoiled by Vancouver. If I had to choose a big Ontario city to live in I'd choose Ottawa. I just like the way it looks plus it just has a really neat atmosphere.

I've spent quite a bit of time around the Hamilton area too. It is a old factory town and has that air about it. Was huge mob town as well.

I thought Hamilton had character- I really liked that. Niagara Falls was a big disappointment.

Vancouver is spectacular, as was Victoria Island. That was like a surreal, idealized English countryside town (Surrey like)

Canada is really spectacular.

263 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:29:06pm

re: #256 rwmofo

Cool. If only...

Mira Awad put up with a lot of pressure over the whole thing. A large number of people did not want her to lend Israel legitimacy by appearing as an Arab singer, with a Jewish singer, and representing the country at Eurovision. They were vocal, and nasty about it.

264 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:29:15pm

Has no one here been to Quebec City?

265 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:29:16pm

re: #259 jamesfirecat

Just because someone is an incumbent that does not make them the spawn of Satan Ojoe.

How about just asking people not to vote for any idiots who will make the situation worse instead of better in Washington?

we have to stick to those that are running...

266 What, me worry?  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:30:05pm

re: #252 Ojoe

Please do not vote for any incumbents in the November election. If you can't bring yourself to vote D or R, there are plenty of "fringe" parties, or write in your own name. It is no use to reward an incumbent for the mess we are in; remember, if you reward something, you get more of it. Thank you.

I'm actually quite happy with my Democrat choices.

267 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:30:17pm

re: #247 researchok

I hear that. I just loved the city, the European feel, etc.

Maybe we could be neighbors.

Shopping on Saint Catherines.. The Food..The people and culture..A lady from our office said..What have you noticed about Montreal? I gave the standard replies...No. She said...We have the most beautiful woman in North America...
Well, I wasn't going to say anything..But you are right..
Smoking hot women..Sorry Lizards..But it is the truth..Smoking hot

268 prairiefire  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:30:22pm

re: #264 b_sharp

I have. It was lovely. Gave my asthma hell, though, with walking the incline.

269 researchok  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:30:22pm

re: #258 prairiefire

If you go to Montreal, the Holiday Inn in China Town was a great stay. Within walking distance of the Cathedral, historic district and the waterway. 2 blocks from a fabulous Korean bakery.

Old Montreal is fantastic. No other place like it except for Quebec City.

270 Ojoe  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:30:24pm

re: #259 jamesfirecat

In herds they act as an idiot, collectively, the D idiot herd and the R idiot herd.

271 shutdown  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:30:24pm

re: #260 brookly red

you know I am leaning that way...

You and I will vote for him, and Paladingdong will win by two votes, with my luck.

272 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:30:38pm

re: #265 brookly red

we have to stick to those that are running...

Huh?

273 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:30:38pm

re: #264 b_sharp

Has no one here been to Quebec City?

I have trashed the Fountaniac a few times...

274 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:31:10pm

re: #252 Ojoe

I think we each need to evaluate the candidates on the slate presented to us, before deciding how to vote. Anything less, is an avoidance of our responsibilities as citizens.

275 researchok  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:31:19pm

re: #267 HoosierHoops

Shopping on Saint Catherines.. The Food..The people and culture..A lady from our office said..What have you noticed about Montreal? I gave the standard replies...No. She said...We have the most beautiful woman in North America...
Well, I wasn't going to say anything..But you are right..
Smoking hot women..Sorry Lizards..But it is the truth..Smoking hot

Oh man... That be THE TRUTH.

276 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:31:46pm

re: #270 Ojoe

In herds they act as an idiot, collectively, the D idiot herd and the R idiot herd.

So do you think Independents who don't even have a cohesive statewide leadership system would do any better?

Lets avoid electing obvious idiots like Sharon Angle even if it means voting for an incumbent and take things from there....

277 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:32:09pm

re: #274 Floral Giraffe

I think we each need to evaluate the candidates on the slate presented to us, before deciding how to vote. Anything less, is an avoidance of our responsibilities as citizens.

Well said Floral.

278 shutdown  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:32:09pm

re: #275 researchok

Oh man... That be THE TRUTH.

The hottest women I have ever encountered on this big blue marble are in Argentina.

279 researchok  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:32:51pm

re: #267 HoosierHoops

Shopping on Saint Catherines.. The Food..The people and culture..A lady from our office said..What have you noticed about Montreal? I gave the standard replies...No. She said...We have the most beautiful woman in North America...
Well, I wasn't going to say anything..But you are right..
Smoking hot women..Sorry Lizards..But it is the truth..Smoking hot

And the food- I had smoked meat and poutine.

I'm past the point of no return.

280 prairiefire  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:33:06pm

re: #278 imp_62

The hottest women I have ever encountered on this big blue marble are in Argentina.


Yeah, but don't they cheat with a lot of plastic surgery?

281 Ojoe  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:33:07pm

Between the two of them, the D and R parties have held the governance of the country for more than 100 years.

Had they been able to cooperate for the common good, the country would not be in the state in which we find it.

What combined grade would you give them, the two of them together?

282 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:33:08pm

re: #252 Ojoe

Please do not vote for any incumbents in the November election. If you can't bring yourself to vote D or R, there are plenty of "fringe" parties, or write in your own name. It is no use to reward an incumbent for the mess we are in; remember, if you reward something, you get more of it. Thank you.

That blames everyone in office for mistakes not necessarily their own. Should I vote against incumbents on the Chicago Metropolitan Water Reclamation District board because of screw-ups in Washington?

283 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:33:17pm

More evidence of the superiority of UK tv....
Central Locking System 'Strange, But True' - Top Gear - From The BBC!

284 shutdown  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:33:51pm

re: #279 researchok

And the food- I had smoked meat and poutine.

...

I had a smoke and a putain.

285 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:34:06pm

re: #278 imp_62

The hottest women I have ever encountered on this big blue marble are in Argentina.

4 out of 5 AWOL politicians can't be wrong!

286 shutdown  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:34:11pm

re: #280 prairiefire

Yeah, but don't they cheat with a lot of plastic surgery?

Nope. That's Venezuela you are thinking of.

287 researchok  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:34:15pm

re: #278 imp_62

The hottest women I have ever encountered on this big blue marble are in Argentina.

I can't say- I haven't been there.

In this hemisphere, Montreal rules/

Hoops is right about that.

288 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:34:29pm

re: #282 Dark_Falcon

That blames everyone in office for mistakes not necessarily their own. Should I vote against incumbents on the Chicago Metropolitan Water Reclamation District board because of screw-ups in Washington?

well they of all should understand what flushing means...

289 Ojoe  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:34:39pm

re: #276 jamesfirecat

Write in your own name if you think you could do better than either of the two choices that the moronic, power-lusting party hacks have presented you.

290 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:34:45pm

re: #281 Ojoe

Between the two of them, the D and R parties have held the governance of the country for more than 100 years.

Had they been able to cooperate for the common good, the country would not be in the state in which we find it.

What combined grade would you give them, the two of them together?

I don't f***ing give the parties a combined grade when one holds out an open hand in friendship and the other punches them in the gut for being such pussies.

291 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:34:46pm

re: #277 jamesfirecat

Thanks, sorry we disagreed last night.
Hope you are well this fine evening?

292 Jadespring  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:35:01pm

re: #262 researchok

I thought Hamilton had character- I really liked that. Niagara Falls was a big disappointment.

Vancouver is spectacular, as was Victoria Island. That was like a surreal, idealized English countryside town (Surrey like)

Canada is really spectacular.

Vancouver Island. :) Victoria is the provincial capital on the island. And yes it does have a real old world feel. When I lived in Vancouver I went there quite a bit. Loved it because the ferry ride made it feel like you were really getting away even if it was only a day trip. Plus sometimes you'd even see whales! That was awesome when that happened. This huge ferry would suddenly become a whale viewing ship and would slow right down while everyone rushed to see them. Loved that when that happened.

293 researchok  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:35:03pm

re: #284 imp_62

I had a smoke and a putain.

I saw that. You are very bad.

That qualifies as friend material.

294 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:35:10pm

re: #289 Ojoe

Write in your own name if you think you could do better than either of the two choices that the moronic, power-lusting party hacks have presented you.

What if I think one of the names on the ballot can do better than me?

295 shutdown  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:35:42pm

re: #283 Killgore Trout

More evidence of the superiority of UK tv...
Central Locking System 'Strange, But True' - Top Gear - From The BBC!

[Video]

I like Jeremy Clarkson. He gets into pub brawls like us little people.

296 Ojoe  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:35:54pm

re: #282 Dark_Falcon

I would say incumbents for special districts & counties are OK.

I'm talking about national and state offices.

297 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:35:59pm

re: #278 imp_62

The hottest women I have ever encountered on this big blue marble are in Argentina.

No, we're in LA!
LOL!
///sorta

298 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:36:21pm

re: #285 jamesfirecat

4 out of 5 AWOL politicians can't be wrong!


Heh, Mark Sanford recommended. Have to say though Argentina would be cool to visit. I hear Buenos Aires is a really cool city.

299 TedStriker  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:36:28pm

re: #128 negativ

The (original) British version of "The Office" is so thoroughly superior to the US version that it makes my teeth itch. I was embarrassed when NBC announced they were going to rip it off Americanize it.

The original may be great, but the American version isn't that bad...Steve Carrell and crew have done a good job, but the series is getting a bit long in the tooth.

300 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:36:33pm

re: #291 Floral Giraffe

Thanks, sorry we disagreed last night.
Hope you are well this fine evening?

Don't even recall what we disagreed over last night personally.

I'm more or less feeling fine, thanks for asking.

Had a nasty... something (stomach flu, food poisoning?) that made me miss work on Monday (emailed and called in to let them know what was going on...) but felt good enough to make the trip yesterday and today and its getting better bit by bit.

301 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:37:12pm

re: #288 brookly red

well they of all should understand what flushing means...

Isn't there a Flushing in Queens?

302 shutdown  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:37:39pm

re: #297 Floral Giraffe

No, we're in LA!
LOL!
///sorta

I know a very crude joke about a giraffe and a monkey.

303 prairiefire  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:37:43pm

re: #283 Killgore Trout

Gavin and Stacey:

304 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:37:47pm

re: #301 Dark_Falcon

Isn't there a Flushing in Queens?

Believe it's where the Mets used to play.

305 researchok  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:38:04pm

re: #292 Jadespring

Vancouver Island. :) Victoria is the provincial capital on the island. And yes it does have a real old world feel. When I lived in Vancouver I went there quite a bit. Loved it because the ferry ride made it feel like you were really getting away even if it was only a day trip. Plus sometimes you'd even see whales! That was awesome when that happened. This huge ferry would suddenly become a whale viewing ship and would slow right down while everyone rushed to see them. Loved that when that happened.

Yes- thank you for correcting me!

I took the ferry as well. The trip was also impressive, That ferry system is pretty comprehensive.

Victoria was great (had a fantastic fish dinner there) but when you get off the beaten path the Island becomes...magical almost. The rocky shores, the sandy shore, the quiet. It's like a trip back in time.

306 APox  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:38:20pm

re: #251 APox

Hmm let's try that again from an actual computer: The vaccines, they are evil!

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

""This is a preventable disease," says Sicilia, because there is a vaccine for whooping cough to protect those coming in contact with infants, and thereby protect the infants.
However, some parents are choosing to not vaccinate their children. "

Is this vaccination common for children to have?

307 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:39:06pm

re: #304 HappyWarrior

Believe it's where the Mets used to play.

And thus the joke cycle returns to the scatological spawning ground from whence it came....

(I'm saying the Mets are bad at baseball, at least compared to New Yorks other team....)

308 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:39:29pm

re: #302 imp_62

I know a very crude joke about a giraffe and a monkey.

Oh, dear.
Please may I pass on that?

309 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:39:31pm

re: #295 imp_62

I like Jeremy Clarkson. He gets into pub brawls like us little people.

I don't. He's a global warming denier and his books are crap.

310 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:39:35pm

re: #296 Ojoe

I would say incumbents for special districts & counties are OK.

I'm talking about national and state offices.

I still disagree. In my eyes, if someone in Illinois does not vote for Bill Brady (the Republican nominee for Governor) they are voting to continue having the governorship be a thrall of the Democratic Machine. A write-in vote is a vote for the Machine.

311 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:39:37pm

re: #168 researchok

I would have thought you'd have like Frazier- it was quite witty and sharp at times.

I lived in Seattle, I escaped from Seattle, so the ever pompous, unsubtle, invented version of that city's culture just struck me as flat, false and uninteresting. It was a giant pile of meh from my perspective, like Psych's take on Saint Babs.

re: #252 Ojoe

Please do not vote for any incumbents in the November election. If you can't bring yourself to vote D or R, there are plenty of "fringe" parties, or write in your own name. It is no use to reward an incumbent for the mess we are in; remember, if you reward something, you get more of it. Thank you.

I'm not going to throw away my vote no matter how nice you ask. I did that in 2000, Voted for Nader, I said things had to get worse before they could get better. It was an idiotic thing to do then, and doing it in a whig seems even more ridiculous now.

312 shutdown  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:39:44pm

re: #304 HappyWarrior

Believe it's where the Mets used to play.

nomen est omen

313 rwmofo  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:40:25pm

re: #278 imp_62

The hottest women I have ever encountered on this big blue marble are in Argentina.

The most beautiful women I've encountered ended up pissing me off. But hey, I'm Charlie Brown and will definitely kick it around some more with Lucy.

314 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:40:25pm

re: #292 Jadespring

Vancouver Island. :) Victoria is the provincial capital on the island. And yes it does have a real old world feel. When I lived in Vancouver I went there quite a bit. Loved it because the ferry ride made it feel like you were really getting away even if it was only a day trip. Plus sometimes you'd even see whales! That was awesome when that happened. This huge ferry would suddenly become a whale viewing ship and would slow right down while everyone rushed to see them. Loved that when that happened.

I spent a year in Vancouver/Vancouver Island one summer. It rained every night and the sun shone all day. Rode a motor cycle over Lion's Gate bridge at 110 kph at 4:00pm.

I was 17.

315 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:41:45pm

re: #311 goddamnedfrank

I lived in Seattle, I escaped from Seattle, so the ever pompous, unsubtle, invented version of that city's culture just struck me as flat, false and uninteresting. It was a giant pile of meh from my perspective, like Psych's take on Saint Babs.

re: #252 Ojoe

I'm not going to throw away my vote no matter how nice you ask. I did that in 2000, Voted for Nader, I said things had to get worse before they could get better. It was an idiotic thing to do then, and doing it in a whig seems even more ridiculous now.

But you'd look so fancy!

Image: sir_robert_walpole.gif

316 prairiefire  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:42:03pm

re: #313 rwmofo

The most beautiful women I've encountered ended up pissing me off. But hey, I'm Charlie Brown and will definitely kick it around some more with Lucy.

The two most handsome men I ever dated were as boring as hell.

317 researchok  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:42:41pm

re: #316 prairiefire

The two most handsome men I ever dated were as boring as hell.

Ah....so we have met...

//

318 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:42:41pm

re: #316 prairiefire

The two most handsome men I ever dated were as boring as hell.

I'm sorry, I was really just having an off year.

319 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:42:55pm

re: #306 APox

""This is a preventable disease," says Sicilia, because there is a vaccine for whooping cough to protect those coming in contact with infants, and thereby protect the infants.
However, some parents are choosing to not vaccinate their children. "

Is this vaccination common for children to have?

It was. Rates of whooping cough vaccination have plummeted since Andrew Wakefield's bogus study that linked a childhood vaccine to autism. Anti-vax insanity in America comes from both the right and the left. It seems to be a position born of suspicion of science and distrust of authority.

320 researchok  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:43:15pm

re: #318 Obdicut

I'm sorry, I was really just having an off year.

I hear that.

I had an off decade.

321 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:43:17pm

re: #306 APox

""This is a preventable disease," says Sicilia, because there is a vaccine for whooping cough to protect those coming in contact with infants, and thereby protect the infants.
However, some parents are choosing to not vaccinate their children. "

Is this vaccination common for children to have?

Well, you're talking to yourself.
But, Whooping Cough is a PREVENTABLE disease, with vaccinations being given to children at 6 months. HOWEVER, Whooping Cough is currently at epidemic proportions in California.
IIRC, 9 children 2 months & younger have died this year. ExtraSad losses for the families, because it's preventable!


[Link: www.cnn.com...]

322 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:43:51pm

Virginia's 10th congressional district.
Frank Wolf(R) vs. Jeff Barnett(D) vs. Bill Redpath(L)
Must do more research.

323 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:44:14pm

re: #306 APox

""This is a preventable disease," says Sicilia, because there is a vaccine for whooping cough to protect those coming in contact with infants, and thereby protect the infants.
However, some parents are choosing to not vaccinate their children. "

Is this vaccination common for children to have?

Routine, I believe. And now it's law in California that 7th-12th graders must have a pertussis booster.

I got a booster last week, because I'm planning to get pregnant, plus, I work with kids.

324 Jadespring  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:44:56pm

It's really great to hear about peoples travels in Canada. I have enjoyed my travels in the US too. I've driven down the West Coast a few times. I've also done a couple of driving trips across the northern US from Michigan to Washington, once through the route through N. Dakota and once through S. Dakota. Been around Florida a bit as well.

I'd like to do some East Coast trips at some point and hit places like DC and NY. There's also a chance that I may be driving down to Tennessee next year which would be cool.

325 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:46:09pm

re: #324 Jadespring

It's really great to hear about peoples travels in Canada. I have enjoyed my travels in the US too. I've driven down the West Coast a few times. I've also done a couple of driving trips across the northern US from Michigan to Washington, once through the route through N. Dakota and once through S. Dakota. Been around Florida a bit as well.

I'd like to do some East Coast trips at some point and hit places like DC and NY. There's also a chance that I may be driving down to Tennessee next year which would be cool.

When I star my campaign for World Domination, I'll start with Canada.
You know, uranium reserves.
Lots of it.
;)

326 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:46:43pm

re: #316 prairiefire

The two most handsome men I ever dated were as boring as hell.

LOL! Mine were, just more interested in themselves!

327 researchok  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:46:49pm

re: #324 Jadespring

It's really great to hear about peoples travels in Canada. I have enjoyed my travels in the US too. I've driven down the West Coast a few times. I've also done a couple of driving trips across the northern US from Michigan to Washington, once through the route through N. Dakota and once through S. Dakota. Been around Florida a bit as well.

I'd like to do some East Coast trips at some point and hit places like DC and NY. There's also a chance that I may be driving down to Tennessee next year which would be cool.

NYC- Broadway, Pizza and canolis in Brooklyn,

You're life will change.

328 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:47:21pm

re: #322 Varek Raith

Virginia's 10th congressional district.
Frank Wolf(R) vs. Jeff Barnett(D) vs. Bill Redpath(L)
Must do more research.

That's my district. Don't know much about Barnett but Wolf's been here since 1980. Maybe Barnett will do ok since there's an anti incumbent feeling but I dunno. Don't see BArnett winning though. Redpath is the former national LP chairman and he ran for governor the year Kaine and Kilgore did. I don't hate or really dislike Wolf that much since I give him some credit for sparking my interest in humanitarian isseus. When he spoke at my high school he talked about Darfur. He's a little too socially conservative for my liking though.

329 What, me worry?  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:48:04pm

re: #304 HappyWarrior

Believe it's where the Mets used to play.

I was born in Flushing at Booth Memorial Hospital. The 'rents are from Flatblush (over brookly red's way).

330 Jadespring  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:48:33pm

re: #327 researchok

NYC- Broadway, Pizza and canolis in Brooklyn,

You're life will change.

Yes there's no way I'll go to NY and not see Broadway or eat genuine NY pizza!

331 researchok  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:48:50pm

Now I'm hungry for smoked meat, poutine, pizza and canolis.

How pathetic is that??

332 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:48:58pm

re: #325 Varek Raith

When I star my campaign for World Domination, I'll start with Canada.
You know, uranium reserves.
Lots of it.
;)

The Death Star runs on fusion power. What do you need uranium for?

333 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:49:29pm

re: #331 researchok

Now I'm hungry for smoked meat, poutine, pizza and canolis.

How pathetic is that??

Not at all, it's making me wish I ordered a pizza tonight instead of staying with my meal plan. Meh.

334 researchok  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:49:40pm

re: #330 Jadespring

Yes there's no way I'll go to NY and not see Broadway or eat genuine NY pizza!

The experience will be overwhelming.

There is nothing like New York or New Yorkers.

Nothing.

335 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:49:54pm

re: #325 Varek Raith

When I star my campaign for World Domination, I'll start with Canada.
You know, uranium reserves.
Lots of it.
;)

They're just north of me. I'll give you the royal Sith tour.

336 researchok  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:50:16pm

re: #333 HappyWarrior

Not at all, it's making me wish I ordered a pizza tonight instead of staying with my meal plan. Meh.

We are a couple of losers, aren't we?

//

337 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:50:32pm

re: #332 Dark_Falcon

The Death Star runs on fusion power. What do you need uranium for?

To deprive it from the rest to you monkeys.
:P

338 Jadespring  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:50:42pm

re: #331 researchok

Now I'm hungry for smoked meat, poutine, pizza and canolis.

How pathetic is that??

Well I don't know about the availability of smoked meat but if you can get some proper cheese curds poutine is really easy to make.

339 prairiefire  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:50:51pm

re: #329 marjoriemoon

Flatbush sounds like Nutbush:

340 researchok  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:50:52pm

re: #325 Varek Raith

When I star my campaign for World Domination, I'll start with Canada.
You know, uranium reserves.
Lots of it.
;)

Come hungry.

341 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:51:03pm

There are plenty of places in the world I'd like to see, but there are many problems:

1) No time. I can't go to the local arts district that I've already been to countless times without spending 6 hours; it's a pretty safe bet that I wouldn't be able to scratch the dust off the surface of just about any city in Europe in less than a couple of weeks, and I only get two weeks paid time off per year, which brings us to:

2) No money. I don't know about you Rockerfellers, but and it would easily cost me about 3 months' pay to have anything resembling a non-stressful trip abroad, and I'd somehow have to come up with the extra cash to cover the rent and bills money I blew on the trip. I think the closest I ever came to killing someone was the time when a co-worker was complaining about how awful his month-long vacation in Europe was, because his parents only gave him $8,000 walking around money. And that was when the dollar was worth something.

3) Planes can crash, and F = ma

4) Ships can sink, and sharks do get hungry.

5) TSA.

That said, if I suddenly became disgustingly rich, I'd probably look into living in Prague.

342 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:51:34pm

re: #336 researchok

We are a couple of losers, aren't we?

//

Heh, the day there's something wrong with craving pizza is the day all goes to hell.

343 researchok  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:51:52pm

re: #338 Jadespring

Well I don't know about the availability of smoked meat but if you can get some proper cheese curds poutine is really easy to make.

I never thought of that.

I'll bet KT would turn out a masterpiece. He's a real deal foodie.

344 TedStriker  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:54:01pm

re: #129 Killgore Trout

It is interesting to see the differences. The UK version of the Office was infinitely smarter than the American version. In general their TV is much better than ours. There's still a strong effort on British TV to educate. I love their food, cooking and gardening shows.

Love the military documentaries the Brits do and collaborate with folks like Discovery...The World at War (among others) is a classic.

345 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:54:48pm

re: #342 HappyWarrior

Heh, the day there's something wrong with craving pizza is the day all goes to hell.

your faith has been noted...

346 TedStriker  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:54:48pm

re: #309 Obdicut

I don't. He's a global warming denier and his books are crap.

Ouch...

347 prairiefire  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:55:32pm

re: #341 negativ

You could save up for 12 days in Prague. Just stay in one place so you can soak it all up. Hostels are inexpensive for staying. Shop at the local grocer and picnic in the parks.
Buying plane tickets for my two kids really kicks things out of the budget for us. I suppose they could hitchhike./

348 Jadespring  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:55:54pm

re: #341 negativ

I've never traveled with tons of money. Most of my trips are budget, budget, budget. Heck I slept in my car on one of them. :)

Hostels, camping, cheaper hotels off the beaten tourist track and food from local markets/stores or the restaurants where the locals eat. I prefer that type of travel anyways because you get more of a 'real' experience rather then the one the place creates and promotes to tourists.

349 rwmofo  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:55:56pm

re: #338 Jadespring

Well I don't know about the availability of smoked meat but if you can get some proper cheese curds poutine is really easy to make.

OK, I had to look it up:

( Canadian ) a dish of chipped potatoes topped with curd cheese and a tomato-based sauce

I get a little more international hanging around here. Ain't it cool?

350 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:56:01pm

re: #347 prairiefire

You could save up for 12 days in Prague. Just stay in one place so you can soak it all up. Hostels are inexpensive for staying. Shop at the local grocer and picnic in the parks.
Buying plane tickets for my two kids really kicks things out of the budget for us. I suppose they could hitchhike./

Swim.
;)

351 shutdown  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:56:06pm

Here is something I have had some fun with recently. I set up a hotmail account and waited for spam to arrive. My favourite type is the one from some alleged barrister or solicitor breaking the wonderful news about a huge win in the national lottery, or the tragic death in a charter jet crash of a distant relative, who saw fit to bequeath me a huge fortune. In earlier iterations, I claimed to be a willing, if vaguely senile counterparty. This can get a really good dialogue going, with correspondence related to the mechanics of claiming my wealth. It's good fun, especially when I announce my imminent arrival in whatever country they claim as their residence, to claim my prize without the need to transfer money all over the ether. I don't hear from them after that point.

Recently, though, I have experimented with the processes these con artists use to reel you in. I have been in correspondence with a Mr Chong in Malaysia, but instead of actually engaing him, I simply stick his messages into Google Translate and send them back verbatim in either Azerbaijani or Vietnamese. He doesn't seem to notice. I anticipate much hilarity.

352 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:56:12pm

re: #341 negativ

Why Prague?
Out of curiosity...

353 prairiefire  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:57:03pm

re: #352 Floral Giraffe

Why Prague?
Out of curiosity...

It looks like something from a fairy tale, from the photos I've seen.

354 shutdown  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:57:08pm

re: #331 researchok

Now I'm hungry for smoked meat, poutine, pizza and canolis.

How pathetic is that??

Dammit, man. Now you have me wanting cannoli and smoked duck breast. And Newcastle Brown Ale.

355 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:58:04pm

re: #330 Jadespring

re: #331 researchok

thanks...

I smell an ambush.

356 shutdown  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:58:09pm

re: #353 prairiefire

It looks like something from a fairy tale, from the photos I've seen.

A beautiful city with taxi drivers that will cheat you blind. Excellent food and drink, decent public transportation.

357 researchok  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:58:15pm

re: #349 rwmofo

OK, I had to look it up:

( Canadian ) a dish of chipped potatoes topped with curd cheese and a tomato-based sauce

I get a little more international hanging around here. Ain't it cool?

See this

And check this out: Montréal Poutine

358 What, me worry?  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:58:52pm

re: #339 prairiefire

Flatbush sounds like Nutbush:

[Video]

Nothing like it lol

Gawd, Tina is amazing, isn't she.

359 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:59:05pm

re: #309 Obdicut

I don't. He's a global warming denier and his books are crap.

I just like top gear ;_;

(then again, I like Bill Maher's humor and he;s an anti-vaxer, and Penn and Teller's act despite their libertarian crazyassness)

360 TedStriker  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:00:01pm

re: #201 jamesfirecat

I hear Hogan's Heroes does very well in Germany... which makes about as much sense of Medal of Honor Pacific Campaign selling well in Japan if you stop to think about it...

Slightly OT...Werner Klemperer (Col. Klink) was a bit of a Renaissance man, playing and conducting symphonies all over. Music ran in his family and was in his blood...

361 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:00:07pm

re: #356 imp_62

A beautiful city with taxi drivers that will cheat you blind. Excellent food and drink, decent public transportation.

You have silvovitz(plum brandy) while you there? And I agree Czech cuisine is good. Plus tehre are a lot of beautiful women there too. Neighboring Slovakia isn't so bad either. I promise, you won't be kidnapped and tortured like in HOstel.

362 prairiefire  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:00:35pm

re: #358 marjoriemoon

S*E*X*Y, right there. I thought Beyonce was quite a bit like her, when she started out.

363 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:00:57pm

re: #315 jamesfirecat

But you'd look so fancy!

Luckily this is the internet, so I'm already ten feet tall and bulletproof. Throwing a whig on top of all this goodness just smacks of effort.

364 Jadespring  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:01:01pm

re: #349 rwmofo

OK, I had to look it up:

( Canadian ) a dish of chipped potatoes topped with curd cheese and a tomato-based sauce

I get a little more international hanging around here. Ain't it cool?

Yes it's basically french fries, cheese and gravy. Most acknowledge that a true poutine has to have cheese curds but you will get arguments about the gravy. Some it's tomato based and for some it's chicken based. Poutine has become really popular to the point where it's even sold at some fast food places, however most 'poutines' at restaurants where I live don't use curds, they just use whatever grated cheese they have for other things and whatever gravy they have for other things. So it's not really a true poutine--just a bastardized version. It's still yummy though.

365 rwmofo  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:02:56pm

re: #357 researchok

See this

And check this out: Montréal Poutine

Now I'm hungry. You bastard!
/

366 shutdown  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:03:13pm

re: #361 HappyWarrior

You have silvovitz(plum brandy) while you there? And I agree Czech cuisine is good. Plus tehre are a lot of beautiful women there too. Neighboring Slovakia isn't so bad either. I promise, you won't be kidnapped and tortured like in HOstel.

Slivovits is best used to polish brass, if you ask me - dangerous stuff :p
For women in that corner of the world, you cannot beat Slovenia. But Czech women are very nice.

367 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:03:24pm

re: #351 imp_62

There's a book about a guy who spends HOURS of his life corresponding with the Nigerians. It's funny, but do you REALLY want to use your precious time here, this way?

Here's an amazon linky..
[Link: www.amazon.com...]

368 shutdown  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:03:34pm

re: #365 rwmofo

Now I'm hungry. You bastard!
/

[Link: www.whats4eats.com...]
One of my favourite dishes when in a relevant locale.

369 researchok  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:03:38pm

re: #365 rwmofo

Now I'm hungry. You bastard!
/

I'm center right.

Easy to hate.
/

370 Jadespring  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:03:42pm

re: #357 researchok

See this

And check this out: Montréal Poutine

Yeah Montreal and Quebec in general is where you can be more guarenteed to get a 'poutine' that actually has cheese curds in it. The rest of Canada is a bit a crap shoot if you get one from just any old restaurant. You're more likely to get grated cheese.

371 What, me worry?  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:04:24pm

re: #362 prairiefire

S*E*X*Y, right there. I thought Beyonce was quite a bit like her, when she started out.

Beyonce, I don't know. Tina reminds me, bizarrely, of Janis. It's like their music, their songs are them. They aren't just singing. They become every note.

372 shutdown  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:04:29pm

re: #367 Floral Giraffe

There's a book about a guy who spends HOURS of his life corresponding with the Nigerians. It's funny, but do you REALLY want to use your precious time here, this way?

Here's an amazon linky..
[Link: www.amazon.com...]

I remember reading the review about this; it is where I got the idea to mess with these guys in my free time. Funny, funny stuff.

373 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:05:08pm

re: #371 marjoriemoon

Beyonce, I don't know. Tina reminds me, bizarrely, of Janis. It's like their music, their songs are them. They aren't just singing. They become every note.

Tina had MUCH better legs ;)

374 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:05:23pm

re: #372 imp_62

Glad you have a hobby!

375 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:05:34pm

re: #257 imp_62

In NY, there is always the Rent is Too Damn High Party. That Jimmy McMillan is starting to grow on me.

Hell yes.

After almost three years, the bank (which may be a front for Russian mafia, for all I know) that owns my car loan has decided to charge a $5 "transaction fee" every time I make an electronic payment (read: every time). This amounts to theft them increasing my loan by $5 extra per month just because they can. Never mind the fact that I have always paid more than the amount due, I can damn well guarantee that digitally bespooching money from my bank account to theirs doesn't cost them anything resembling $5 in overhead.

In capitalist America, bank robs you.

376 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:05:38pm

re: #366 imp_62

Slivovits is best used to polish brass, if you ask me - dangerous stuff :p
For women in that corner of the world, you cannot beat Slovenia. But Czech women are very nice.

Haha tell me about it, my Slovenian great grandfather used to make his own during prohibition. I haven't seen too much Slovenian women but Donald Trump's current wife is from there and quite beautiful. Never been there. It's actually the only country I have ancestry in which I've never visited.

377 rwmofo  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:07:05pm

re: #368 imp_62

[Link: www.whats4eats.com...]
One of my favourite dishes when in a relevant locale.

If I keep listening to you people, I'll need to change my name to "big fat rwmofo."

378 lostlakehiker  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:07:37pm

re: #239 SanFranciscoZionist

Would you like to translate that, because I'm not entirely sure what you just said?

I know a national park where you really wouldn't find much of anything to complain about. The people one meets are a fine bunch, with very, very rare exceptions.

Europeans included.

379 shutdown  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:07:39pm

re: #348 Jadespring

I've never traveled with tons of money. Most of my trips are budget, budget, budget. Heck I slept in my car on one of them. :)

Hostels, camping, cheaper hotels off the beaten tourist track and food from local markets/stores or the restaurants where the locals eat. I prefer that type of travel anyways because you get more of a 'real' experience rather then the one the place creates and promotes to tourists.

Grab a tent, rent a cheap car and drive the Po river valley. Good places to camp, great Italian food, lovely Italian women (or men, depending on your proclivities. I don't judge, I just calculate the tip).

380 shutdown  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:08:45pm

re: #374 Floral Giraffe

Glad you have a hobby!

Sad, ain't it.

381 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:08:58pm

re: #377 rwmofo

If I keep listening to you people, I'll need to change my name to "big fat rwmofo."

Then you'll cover the entire spectrum of political positions.

382 prairiefire  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:09:49pm

Morticia says "Get out and vote!"[Link: imgur.com...]

Night, lizards.

383 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:10:25pm

re: #381 b_sharp

Then you'll cover the entire spectrum of political positions.

ain't that called the varmint surta of something close?

384 shutdown  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:10:27pm

re: #375 negativ

Hell yes.

After almost three years, the bank (which may be a front for Russian mafia, for all I know) that owns my car loan has decided to charge a $5 "transaction fee" every time I make an electronic payment (read: every time). This amounts to theft them increasing my loan by $5 extra per month just because they can. Never mind the fact that I have always paid more than the amount due, I can damn well guarantee that digitally bespooching money from my bank account to theirs doesn't cost them anything resembling $5 in overhead.

In capitalist America, bank robs you.

Have you ever asked them to waive the fee, or asked them if the re is a form of payment (automatic debit, e.g.) which does not carry a fee? Generally, fees like that are a calculated method to drive your payment behaviour.

385 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:11:25pm

re: #381 b_sharp

Then you'll cover the entire spectrum of political positions.

[snicker]

386 shutdown  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:11:31pm

re: #377 rwmofo

If I keep listening to you people, I'll need to change my name to "big fat rwmofo."

Life is too short for bad food and drink.

387 rwmofo  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:12:07pm

re: #386 imp_62

Life is too short for bad food and drink.

True dat.

388 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:12:37pm

re: #383 brookly red

ain't that called the varmint surta of something close?

Say what?

389 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:13:23pm

re: #388 b_sharp

Say what?

the entire spectrum of political positions.

390 shutdown  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:14:07pm

re: #389 brookly red

the entire spectrum of political positions.

Oh, now I get it *snort*

391 rwmofo  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:14:24pm

All tied up in SF.

Oh, umm, I'm talking about baseball.

392 shutdown  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:14:31pm

re: #390 imp_62

Oh, now I get it *snort*

Damn strikethrough instead of italic.

393 lostlakehiker  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:17:17pm

re: #375 negativ

Hell yes.

After almost three years, the bank (which may be a front for Russian mafia, for all I know) that owns my car loan has decided to charge a $5 "transaction fee" every time I make an electronic payment (read: every time). This amounts to theft them increasing my loan by $5 extra per month just because they can. Never mind the fact that I have always paid more than the amount due, I can damn well guarantee that digitally bespooching money from my bank account to theirs doesn't cost them anything resembling $5 in overhead.

In capitalist America, bank robs you.

But you could avoid that payment by appearing personally at their bank, in Nome, AK, at their regular hours, Thursdays 1:30-2:00 PM every February 29, and paying in coin.

So, it's on you if you use electronic payment.

(But seriously, what's a guy to do? Pay it off as fast as possible, tell everyone which bank, and never do business with them again, I guess. )

With that, here's my two bits, names changed to protect the guilty.

In my town, Bank of Audacity charges a fee to cash a check at their bank drawn on a BOA account. You have a choice: pay that fee, or deposit the check in your own account and wait until in the fullness of time, the amount is credited to yours. Somebody gains a free float.

394 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:17:38pm

re: #391 rwmofo

All tied up in SF.

Oh, umm, I'm talking about baseball.

are we ready for a bondage thread? I don't think so...

395 shutdown  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:17:39pm

Did anyone else hear Dennis Miller go batshit crazy and say that Democrats would steal elections if they were close? I used to think he was funny, imagine.

396 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:19:10pm

re: #380 imp_62

If you enjoy it, it's NOT sad!
It's only sad, if you don't enjoy it!
It's an INTENTIONAL choice on how you spend your time.
(SHOOT! that's me & LGF!)

397 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:19:59pm

re: #395 imp_62

Did anyone else hear Dennis Miller go batshit crazy and say that Democrats would steal elections if they were close? I used to think he was funny, imagine.

/some people just get paranoid when thousands of ballots are found in the trunk of a car...

398 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:20:16pm

re: #395 imp_62

Did anyone else hear Dennis Miller go batshit crazy and say that Democrats would steal elections if they were close? I used to think he was funny, imagine.

Most Democrats wouldn't, but some would. Here in Illinois a Republican needs to have a clear victory statewide. If the Republican was only ahead by 1500 votes, then 1700 would simply "turn up" in Chicago.

/I am not kidding.

399 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:20:38pm

re: #391 rwmofo

All tied up in SF.

Oh, umm, I'm talking about baseball.

But, you wish you weren't talking baseball, is my guess!

400 shutdown  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:22:32pm

re: #398 Dark_Falcon

re: #397 brookly red

The two of you are making me sad and destroying my faith in the political process. I hope you know that whenever you say stuff like that, a fairy dies.

401 rwmofo  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:23:38pm

re: #395 imp_62

Did anyone else hear Dennis Miller go batshit crazy and say that Democrats would steal elections if they were close? I used to think he was funny, imagine.

Maybe he was referring to the Al Franken chapter.

402 shutdown  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:23:48pm

re: #396 Floral Giraffe

If you enjoy it, it's NOT sad!
It's only sad, if you don't enjoy it!
It's an INTENTIONAL choice on how you spend your time.
(SHOOT! that's me & LGF!)

Whenever my choices bum me out, I say to myself it could always be worse: I could be a politician.

403 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:24:19pm

re: #400 imp_62

Tinkerbell is imaginary. What YOU do with your time & energy is not.
Tink will survive!

404 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:24:31pm

re: #401 rwmofo

Maybe he was referring to the Al Franken chapter.

hush yer killin Imp's fairy...

405 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:25:20pm

re: #402 imp_62

Whenever my choices bum me out, I say to myself it could always be worse: I could be a politician.

And, it could be your ONLY job choice!
*shudder*

406 shutdown  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:25:32pm

re: #403 Floral Giraffe

Tinkerbell is imaginary....

Did you hear that thud? There goes another one :(

407 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:26:25pm

re: #406 imp_62

Did you hear that thud? There goes another one :(

I thought that was a bird flying into the window.

408 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:26:59pm

re: #400 imp_62

re: #397 brookly red

The two of you are making me sad and destroying my faith in the political process. I hope you know that whenever you say stuff like that, a fairy dies.

My heart bleeds for the fairies. I'm from Chicago, born and raised there. I l work in Chicago and I live in a Cook County suburb. Voter fraud is a real issue here. It's not just some "ELEVENTY!!1" thing.

409 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:27:00pm

re: #406 imp_62

Did you hear that thud? There goes another one :(

Um, that was a flyswatter hit.
Sorry.
Thought it was a wasp in the room.
LOL!

410 Jadespring  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:28:16pm

Well this discussion made me hungry too so I just got something to eat.

Roasted leek and dill cream cheese spread on a sliced baguette with a sprinkle of fresh dill on top.

My tummy is happy now.

411 Henchman 25  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:29:01pm

Hopefully that fairies that are dying are of the magical balance variety!

///Don't hit!

412 Henchman 25  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:29:24pm

re: #411 SteelPH

Hopefully the fairies that are dying are of the magical balance variety!

///Don't hit!

PIMF

413 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:29:30pm

re: #397 brookly red

/some people just get paranoid when thousands of ballots are found in the trunk of a car...

I remember when that happened.

But I think it was in Korea.

414 shutdown  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:29:42pm

re: #407 b_sharp

I thought that was a bird flying into the window.

That has been happening to us more than we would like since we put up extra bird feeders. We have stickers on the windows and all, but when the hawks start circling, the natives get nervous.

I like the hawks, they are very impressive when they come barreling out of the sky and strike their prey on the ground, then take back to the air almost without breaking stride. My other preferred sightings are Northern Flickers and Carolina Wrens.

415 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:30:12pm

re: #408 Dark_Falcon

My heart bleeds for the fairies. I'm from Chicago, born and raised there. I l work in Chicago and I live in a Cook County suburb. Voter fraud is a real issue here. It's not just some "ELEVENTY!!1" thing.

yeah, thats why they factor a 4 or 5 % margin in the polls... personally I would make election fraud a hanging offense.

416 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:31:08pm

re: #401 rwmofo

Maybe he was referring to the Al Franken chapter.

Look, if you're gonna accuse Al Franken of stealing the election, I must have some kind of proof. I don't say this because I have any faith in the inherent honesty of Al Franken. I say this because his name keeps coming up when fraudulent elections are mentioned, and I ask for particulars, and people wander off to feed their cats.

417 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:31:10pm

auspice

Namaste, y'all

418 shutdown  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:31:14pm

re: #410 Jadespring

Well this discussion made me hungry too so I just got something to eat.

Roasted leek and dill cream cheese spread on a sliced baguette with a sprinkle of fresh dill on top.

My tummy is happy now.

Nice!

419 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:31:20pm

re: #415 brookly red

yeah, thats why they factor a 4 or 5 % margin in the polls... personally I would make election fraud a hanging offense.

In that case there would be some politicians that were well hung.

420 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:32:15pm

re: #413 SanFranciscoZionist

I remember when that happened.

But I think it was in Korea.

Stewart Smiley is in Korea? Damn I knew he was a commie but wow...

421 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:32:56pm

re: #419 b_sharp

In that case there would be some politicians that were well hung.

we should start with Chad...

422 shutdown  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:32:59pm

re: #414 imp_62

That has been happening to us more than we would like since we put up extra bird feeders. We have stickers on the windows and all, but when the hawks start circling, the natives get nervous.

I like the hawks, they are very impressive when they come barreling out of the sky and strike their prey on the ground, then take back to the air almost without breaking stride. My other preferred sightings are Northern Flickers and Carolina Wrens.

Oh Lord. I have turned in to a crazy shut-in with a laptop and too many pets.

423 rwmofo  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:32:59pm

re: #408 Dark_Falcon

My heart bleeds for the fairies. I'm from Chicago, born and raised there. I l work in Chicago and I live in a Cook County suburb. Voter fraud is a real issue here. It's not just some "ELEVENTY!!1" thing.

Chicago. This brings back memories - when I was living in Tampa. It was 1978. I was sitting on the front row in the end zone. The Bears' cheerleaders were called the "Honey Bears" then. They were only a few feet away. I think there was an NFL game going on that day. I can't remember why else I'd be sitting in the end zone on a Sunday afternoon. Ahhhh, Chicago - in Tampa. The Honey Bears. Oh yes.

424 lostlakehiker  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:33:37pm

re: #395 imp_62

Did anyone else hear Dennis Miller go batshit crazy and say that Democrats would steal elections if they were close? I used to think he was funny, imagine.

Landslide Lyndon.

425 shutdown  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:33:39pm

re: #423 rwmofo

Chicago. This brings back memories - when I was living in Tampa. It was 1978. I was sitting on the front row in the end zone. The Bears' cheerleaders were called the "Honey Bears" then. They were only a few feet away. I think there was an NFL game going on that day. I can't remember why else I'd be sitting in the end zone on a Sunday afternoon. Ahhh, Chicago - in Tampa. The Honey Bears. Oh yes.

I want what he's having. lol

426 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:33:45pm

re: #421 brookly red

we should start with Chad...

That, I got.

427 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:34:09pm

Conservatives hate Al Frabken because they have no answer for him. he's smarter than they are, he knows procedure better than they do, and he's funnier than they are

So of course the usual sewage of al Franken stealing the election, because they got nothing

428 shutdown  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:34:44pm

re: #419 b_sharp

In that case there would be some politicians that were well hung.

Not sure about pols, but Brett Favre is only average. Not sure why he would want to send around pictures of his junk.

429 rwmofo  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:35:06pm

re: #416 SanFranciscoZionist

Look, if you're gonna accuse Al Franken of stealing the election, I must have some kind of proof. I don't say this because I have any faith in the inherent honesty of Al Franken. I say this because his name keeps coming up when fraudulent elections are mentioned, and I ask for particulars, and people wander off to feed their cats.

Heh.

430 lostlakehiker  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:35:22pm

re: #416 SanFranciscoZionist

Look, if you're gonna accuse Al Franken of stealing the election, I must have some kind of proof. I don't say this because I have any faith in the inherent honesty of Al Franken. I say this because his name keeps coming up when fraudulent elections are mentioned, and I ask for particulars, and people wander off to feed their cats.

The main particular is that Franken was behind by the kind of margin from which recovery was statistically impossible.

It's like when somebody wins the lottery six times. You can't prove anything but the sheer improbability of it reeks.

431 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:35:50pm

re: #427 WindUpBird

Conservatives hate Al Frabken because they have no answer for him. he's smarter than they are, he knows procedure better than they do, and he's funnier than they are

So of course the usual sewage of al Franken stealing the election, because they got nothing

Wasn't it the court during a recount that decided he won? And wasn't it his opponent who tried to wriggle his way in?

432 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:35:50pm

re: #423 rwmofo

Chicago. This brings back memories - when I was living in Tampa. It was 1978. I was sitting on the front row in the end zone. The Bears' cheerleaders were called the "Honey Bears" then. They were only a few feet away. I think there was an NFL game going on that day. I can't remember why else I'd be sitting in the end zone on a Sunday afternoon. Ahhh, Chicago - in Tampa. The Honey Bears. Oh yes.

The Bears got rid of their cheerleaders a few years afterwards. They had no need for them, given that they weren't really a draw.

433 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:35:58pm

re: #428 imp_62

Not sure about pols, but Brett Favre is only average. Not sure why he would want to send around pictures of his junk.

rich + average = huge

434 shutdown  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:36:33pm

re: #430 lostlakehiker

The main particular is that Franken was behind by the kind of margin from which recovery was statistically impossible.

It's like when somebody wins the lottery six times. You can't prove anything but the sheer improbability of it reeks.

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

435 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:36:34pm

re: #428 imp_62

Not sure about pols, but Brett Favre is only average. Not sure why he would want to send around pictures of his junk.

Distorted self image?

436 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:36:44pm

re: #416 SanFranciscoZionist

Look, if you're gonna accuse Al Franken of stealing the election, I must have some kind of proof. I don't say this because I have any faith in the inherent honesty of Al Franken. I say this because his name keeps coming up when fraudulent elections are mentioned, and I ask for particulars, and people wander off to feed their cats.

Basically they wanted Norm Coleman to win, and he lost, and they're sore and their penis hurts and by the way did you know being a comedian is somehow grounds for expulsion from the senate according to Radio Laser of Common Sense, the exalted golden throat of Rush Gordon Levannity

437 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:37:00pm

re: #429 rwmofo

Heh.

So you got nothing


you guys always got nothing

438 shutdown  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:37:27pm

re: #433 brookly red

rich + average = huge


cash is beer goggles for chicks.

439 lostlakehiker  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:38:02pm

re: #427 WindUpBird

Conservatives hate Al Frabken because they have no answer for him. he's smarter than they are, he knows procedure better than they do, and he's funnier than they are

So of course the usual sewage of al Franken stealing the election, because they got nothing

Oh, I grant that he's smarter than me, and for sure, funnier. Damned few people are as smart as a top comedian. None are funnier, apart from the other handful of top comedians. But somehow or other he won an election in the recount, when no recount in recorded history had yielded anything like the change that was certified in his case. Franken, himself, surely had nothing to do with it. But neither did chance.

440 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:38:04pm

re: #430 lostlakehiker

The main particular is that Franken was behind by the kind of margin from which recovery was statistically impossible.

It's like when somebody wins the lottery six times. You can't prove anything but the sheer improbability of it reeks.

Nonsense. They were very close and there was a question about absentee votes being correctly counted.

441 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:39:10pm

It could all be cleared up once and for all with a standard voting process based on SS# + ID... then there would be no issue ever again.

442 webevintage  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:39:31pm

The Truth about Voter Fraud
[Link: www.truthaboutfraud.org...]

Death records.
Voting from the grave offers salacious headlines, and investigators often attempt to match death records to voter rolls in an attempt to produce purported evidence of fraud. Yet in addition to the problems with inaccurate matching identified above, a simple match of death records to voter rolls may conceal citizens who voted before dying, in quite ordinary fashion. In Maryland in 1995, for example, an exhaustive investigation revealed that of 89 alleged deceased voters, none were actually dead at the time the
ballot was cast. The federal agent in charge of the investigation said that the nearest they came was when they “found one person who had voted then died a week after the election.”36 Similarly, in New Hampshire,
postcards were sent to the addresses of citizens who voted in the 2004 general election; one card was returned as undeliverable because the voter died after Election Day, but before the postcard arrived at her home.37

[Link: www.truthaboutfraud.org...]

The Myth of Voter Fraud
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

443 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:40:09pm

re: #430 lostlakehiker


Bullshit.

Fucking back up the ridiculous claims for once.

Jesus christ.

444 shutdown  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:41:08pm

re: #442 webevintage

Voter fraud is nothing more than a Potemkin Village to provide solace to the losers of close elections.

445 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:41:43pm

re: #347 prairiefire

You could save up for 12 days in Prague.

Not realistically. I'm already saving up for:
1) Unexpected Cataclysmic Car Repair Bill
2) Sudden, Unexpected Loss Of Job
3) Major Illness or Injury of knuckleheaded Canid who amounts to the entirety of my social circle
4) Some permutation of the aforementioned

446 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:42:05pm

re: #424 lostlakehiker

Landslide Lyndon.

When all else fails, bring up Lyndon Johnson's 1948 Senate runoff against another Democrat. That sure proves...well, mostly that Lyndon was a cast-iron SOB.

Jesus H.

447 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:42:11pm

re: #444 imp_62

Voter fraud is nothing more than a Potemkin Village to provide solace to the losers of close elections.

really so lets do the national ID & fix it once and for all.

448 shutdown  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:42:34pm

re: #445 negativ

Not realistically. I'm already saving up for:
1) Unexpected Cataclysmic Car Repair Bill
2) Sudden, Unexpected Loss Of Job
3) Major Illness or Injury of knuckleheaded Canid who amounts to the entirety of my social circle
4) Some permutation of the aforementioned

And 6 sets of Glenn Beck recommended beef stroganoff survival meal packs.

449 webevintage  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:42:52pm

re: #431 b_sharp

Wasn't it the court during a recount that decided he won? And wasn't it his opponent who tried to wriggle his way in?

Yes and yes and Colman was all "well Franken should just give in" when Colman thought he was ahead...but once it became clear that Colman might not be ahead magically Colman did not think conceding was such a good idea..

450 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:43:17pm

re: #439 lostlakehiker

Oh, I grant that he's smarter than me, and for sure, funnier. Damned few people are as smart as a top comedian. None are funnier, apart from the other handful of top comedians. But somehow or other he won an election in the recount, when no recount in recorded history had yielded anything like the change that was certified in his case. Franken, himself, surely had nothing to do with it. But neither did chance.

Quite Concur. Those "missing ballots" being found stunk to high heaven. That alone is clear and convincing evidence of fraud to me.

451 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:43:29pm

re: #427 WindUpBird

Conservatives hate Al Frabken because they have no answer for him. he's smarter than they are, he knows procedure better than they do, and he's funnier than they are

So of course the usual sewage of al Franken stealing the election, because they got nothing

I'm inclined to call sewage as well, if no one can give me some evidence. And no one has ever given me any evidence.

I am still willing to look at the evidence. Evidence?

452 shutdown  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:43:46pm

re: #447 brookly red

really so lets do the national ID & fix it once and for all.

You are begging the question. I would first require real proof that it is broken, before I volunteer even an iota of the little bit of privacy I have left to the state.

453 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:43:48pm

re: #429 rwmofo

Heh.

You got a cat or something?

454 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:44:16pm

re: #430 lostlakehiker

The main particular is that Franken was behind by the kind of margin from which recovery was statistically impossible.

It's like when somebody wins the lottery six times. You can't prove anything but the sheer improbability of it reeks.

In other words, there's absolutely nothing.

455 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:45:23pm

re: #441 brookly red

It could all be cleared up once and for all with a standard voting process based on SS# + ID... then there would be no issue ever again.

Oh, what bullshit. We could do that, and there would still be accusations at every turn. Because some people can't stand losing a damn election.

456 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:45:58pm

re: #452 imp_62

You are begging the question. I would first require real proof that it is broken, before I volunteer even an iota of the little bit of privacy I have left to the state.

1 person, 1 SS#, 1 ID, 1 vote... nothing less is beyond suspicion.

457 rwmofo  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:46:01pm

re: #432 Dark_Falcon

The Bears got rid of their cheerleaders a few years afterwards. They had no need for them, given that they weren't really a draw.

Coincidentally, I got to fly with the Broncos in '86 to their KC game. My brother won two tickets (hotel, etc) and took me. I asked why he didn't take his wife. He said that no women could go. ??? No cheerleaders were on the flight either. I think there was an issue with some former cheerleaders and they were trying to refresh their image - or something.

458 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:46:33pm

re: #447 brookly red

really so lets do the national ID & fix it once and for all.

Sounds great! Let's see what the wave of Tea Party darling about to sweep into Congress on the shoulders of a pissed-off electorate have to say about federally issued ID.

459 lostlakehiker  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:46:47pm

re: #84 Obdicut

Russia is both Europe and Asia, and when talking about WWII, is generally not referred to as "Europe". Besides, when you talk about "Europe" being grateful for our military, you really just mean Western Europe, since we never got anywhere near Eastern Europe.

Do you get my point that saying that the Europeans should be grateful for our help during WWII is kind of nuts? They didn't sit back and wait for rescue, they fought tooth and fucking nail. The French collapsed due to bad generalship, but they also had just lost-- as had most countries in Europe-- an entire generation of young men in WWI.

The French collapsed for reasons that went beyond bad generalship. The art historian Kenneth Clark reported in later life that he'd been to France and he'd come back and met with Churchill, Spring 1940 before the storm broke, and he'd reported that he'd sensed that the French just weren't going to fight. And Churchill just gave him this bleak look, as in, yes, I know that, and now what?

A single Vietnamese battalion held Rommel's Panzer division at the Meuse crossing for a whole day. Meanwhile, whole French divisions simply melted away at the sight of German tanks. Divisions that themselves had more tanks. The fall of France was not a matter of a couple of bad generals having some bad days.

Poland put up a much sterner fight. Relative to her very meager resources, so did Norway.

Belgium and Denmark and the Netherlands I'll give you. They never had a chance.

460 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:46:57pm

re: #448 imp_62

And 6 sets of Glenn Beck recommended beef stroganoff survival meal packs.

Do they sell something besides stroganoff? I like stroganoff fine, but after a while...

461 webevintage  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:47:10pm

re: #452 imp_62

You are begging the question. I would first require real proof that it is broken, before I volunteer even an iota of the little bit of privacy I have left to the state.


There may have been in the past BUT not within say the last 20 years.
But whatever, brown people and Mickey Mouse might try to vote when not actually registered because trying to vote and actually voting is the same fucking thing.
/

462 darthstar  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:47:37pm

Damn...my heart is still beating fast...that was a hell of a ninth inning. Go Giants!

463 lostlakehiker  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:47:51pm

re: #443 Obdicut

Bullshit.

Fucking back up the ridiculous claims for once.

Jesus christ.

You might ask the Wall Street Journal about it. This is NOT a ridiculous claim. it's simply history. THAT IS WHAT HAPPENED.

464 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:47:59pm

re: #456 brookly red

1 person, 1 SS#, 1 ID, 1 vote... nothing less is beyond suspicion.

But how would people be able to live with themselves if they didn't fantasize that the candidate they disliked was elected by dead people and cartoon characters?

465 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:48:27pm

re: #455 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, what bullshit. We could do that, and there would still be accusations at every turn. Because some people can't stand losing a damn election.

well at least there would be proof... I suspect everyone that is against election transparency. It's so easy with today's technology the mere fact that anyone would disprove is suspicious to me... just saying.

466 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:48:31pm

re: #450 Dark_Falcon

Those would be the missing ballots Franken called for a full investigation into?

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

There were various missing ballots. Their statistical significance was about par. So why the fuck, why on earth, how the hell do you conclude from that that there was obvious fraud, and why in the living hell do you assume that, if there was fraud, that it came from Franken?

For the love of god.

467 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:49:05pm

re: #463 lostlakehiker

You might ask the Wall Street Journal about it. This is NOT a ridiculous claim. it's simply history. THAT IS WHAT HAPPENED.

Then cite it, please.

468 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:49:06pm

re: #458 SanFranciscoZionist

Sounds great! Let's see what the wave of Tea Party darling about to sweep into Congress on the shoulders of a pissed-off electorate have to say about federally issued ID.

do you have a passport?

469 palomino  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:49:52pm

re: #430 lostlakehiker

The main particular is that Franken was behind by the kind of margin from which recovery was statistically impossible.

It's like when somebody wins the lottery six times. You can't prove anything but the sheer improbability of it reeks.

You got a link there, Nate Silver? Or is this just another one of those things you feel in your gut?

470 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:49:52pm

re: #465 brookly red

well at least there would be proof... I suspect everyone that is against election transparency. It's so easy with today's technology the mere fact that anyone would disprove is suspicious to me... just saying.

So, seriously, you think Republicans would ever allow a federal ID process? I think they'd scream bloody murder.

471 rwmofo  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:49:53pm

re: #444 imp_62

Voter fraud is nothing more than a Potemkin Village to provide solace to the losers of close elections.

Well we can all relax in a couple weeks, because this one won't be close.

472 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:49:57pm

re: #450 Dark_Falcon

Quite Concur. Those "missing ballots" being found stunk to high heaven. That alone is clear and convincing evidence of fraud to me.

Come off it D_F. Sour grapes do not look good on you.

Show evidence that fraud occurred. I followed that case, sort of, and I saw no evidence of fraud and did not hear the court even suspect there was fraud.

473 avanti  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:50:11pm

Pam is unhappy:


"How afraid they are of one little Jewish bigmouth with a blog in New Jack City"

UPDATE: Christine O'Donnell has caved to Salon. No, this is not satire. She actually removed my endorsement from her endorsement page. That took, what? Five minutes? Unbelievable, caving to the crazies at Salon whose currency is destroying voices of reason. It is a pity that a "maverick" and "outsider" would lack any spine and exhibit such incredible political cowardice. ENDORSEMENT WITHDRAWN. It's a shame that this is the quality of people we have representing us against the Obama machine. How can we win? "

474 Amory Blaine  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:50:23pm

She's laying face down drunk in the street! LOL! I like these ONION roundtables.

475 shutdown  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:50:31pm

re: #460 SanFranciscoZionist

Do they sell something besides stroganoff? I like stroganoff fine, but after a while...

I think the post-Armageddon protein progression is
a) Beck's Beef Stroganoff
b) Your dog
c) Your neighbour's dog
d) Your neighbour.

476 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:50:53pm

re: #468 brookly red

do you have a passport?

Yes. Did you answer my question? Seriously, in this climate, imagine the TPers reponse were such a thing required.

477 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:50:54pm

re: #470 SanFranciscoZionist

So, seriously, you think Republicans would ever allow a federal ID process? I think they'd scream bloody murder.

do you have a passport?

478 webevintage  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:51:05pm

Voter Fraud Resources from The Brennan Center
[Link: www.truthaboutfraud.org...]

479 palomino  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:51:36pm

re: #436 WindUpBird

Basically they wanted Norm Coleman to win, and he lost, and they're sore and their penis hurts and by the way did you know being a comedian is somehow grounds for expulsion from the senate according to Radio Laser of Common Sense, the exalted golden throat of Rush Gordon Levannity

Especially if you're a comedian with a degree in govt from Harvard. Clearly not up to the O'Donnell/Angle/Palin standard now being set.

480 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:51:43pm

re: #473 avanti

Pam is unhappy:

"How afraid they are of one little Jewish bigmouth with a blog in New Jack City"

UPDATE: Christine O'Donnell has caved to Salon. No, this is not satire. She actually removed my endorsement from her endorsement page. That took, what? Five minutes? Unbelievable, caving to the crazies at Salon whose currency is destroying voices of reason. It is a pity that a "maverick" and "outsider" would lack any spine and exhibit such incredible political cowardice. ENDORSEMENT WITHDRAWN. It's a shame that this is the quality of people we have representing us against the Obama machine. How can we win? "

NEW JACK CITY?

Oh, for the love of all that's holy.

481 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:51:55pm

re: #477 brookly red

do you have a passport?

Yes and not only that, I have to show it every time I go to Canada!

482 shutdown  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:52:13pm

re: #456 brookly red

1 person, 1 SS#, 1 ID, 1 vote... nothing less is beyond suspicion.

No system is perfect. And any perfect system would be fascist. But at least the trains would run on time, right? Unless we ended up with Italian fascism. Then we would simply fucked and late.

483 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:52:14pm

re: #475 imp_62

I think the post-Armageddon protein progression is
a) Beck's Beef Stroganoff
b) Your dog
c) Your neighbour's dog
d) Your neighbour.

I would move ahead to the neighbor. I like dogs too much. Also, if it's a decent sized dog, could help in hunting other neighbors.

484 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:52:15pm

re: #476 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes. Did you answer my question? Seriously, in this climate, imagine the TPers reponse were such a thing required.

then you have federally issued ID... no big thing. I just want people to show it when they vote.

485 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:52:25pm

re: #463 lostlakehiker

You might ask the Wall Street Journal about it. This is NOT a ridiculous claim. it's simply history. THAT IS WHAT HAPPENED.

Show us the evidence.

486 lostlakehiker  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:52:29pm

re: #467 Obdicut

Then cite it, please.

Within the past month, WSJ ran an article in which it was mentioned, as uncontested simple fact, that the Franken election had been stolen. There isn't any controversy here. But I don't write down page numbers and dates for every story. If you care, you can get it from a library. But you won't accept that story, because it doesn't cite particulars either. It doesn't have to. Everybody knows, and has seen the proof.

I rather suspect that the left knows too, in its heart. But hey, a win is a win is a win, and better still if anyone who brings up how that win became a win is silenced.

487 palomino  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:52:43pm

re: #439 lostlakehiker

Oh, I grant that he's smarter than me, and for sure, funnier. Damned few people are as smart as a top comedian. None are funnier, apart from the other handful of top comedians. But somehow or other he won an election in the recount, when no recount in recorded history had yielded anything like the change that was certified in his case. Franken, himself, surely had nothing to do with it. But neither did chance.

Still waiting for some linkage.

488 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:52:58pm

re: #480 SanFranciscoZionist

NEW JACK CITY?

Oh, for the love of all that's holy.

Where is New Jack City? Is that a Jersey thing?

Shmush shmush.

489 webevintage  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:52:58pm

re: #471 rwmofo

Well we can all relax in a couple weeks, because this one won't be close.

Well that's the problem.
We are all being assured a Republican sweep.
Might happen, might not.
If it does not the TeaGOP Party will be screaming "ACORN VOTER FRAUD" and refuse to admit that the polls just. might. be. wrong.

490 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:53:22pm

re: #477 brookly red

do you have a passport?

Yes, but you're still not answering my question. Tell me what the New Republicans who are going to be surging into DC on a platform of 'fuck the Feds' in a couple weeks will say if people are told they must have a passport to vote.

Seriously. This is one of the major reasons I see why this will not happen any time soon.

491 bratwurst  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:53:42pm

re: #463 lostlakehiker

You might ask the Wall Street Journal about it. .

Great idea.

492 shutdown  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:53:58pm

re: #486 lostlakehiker

Within the past month, WSJ ran an article in which it was mentioned, as uncontested simple fact, that the Franken election had been stolen. There isn't any controversy here. But I don't write down page numbers and dates for every story. If you care, you can get it from a library. But you won't accept that story, because it doesn't cite particulars either. It doesn't have to. Everybody knows, and has seen the proof.

I rather suspect that the left knows too, in its heart. But hey, a win is a win is a win, and better still if anyone who brings up how that win became a win is silenced.

Erm. I don't think the Rupert Murdoch owned WSJ can realistically claim to be the objective paper of record.

493 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:54:01pm

re: #411 SteelPH

Hopefully that fairies that are dying are of the magical balance variety!

///Don't hit!

Can I smoosh?
Pretty please?
Nice to see you posting!

494 rwmofo  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:54:16pm

re: #453 SanFranciscoZionist

You got a cat or something?

No. I just don't currently have the energy to dig up the FrankenFraud links. The beer buzz is wearing off from meeting my buds at happy hour and I don't really feeling like sparring right now. That could change, however.

495 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:54:22pm

re: #484 brookly red

then you have federally issued ID... no big thing. I just want people to show it when they vote.

Can you answer my question?

I'm not saying I object to the idea. I'm saying that the political right in this country would be united with the political left in NOT DOING IT.

Do you understand why I think that?

496 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:54:27pm

re: #486 lostlakehiker

SO in other words, you have no proof, and you attempted to cite an article-- which I'm betting was an op-ed-- that had no proof. Or even evidence. Of any sort.

And apparently, it's somehow high and mighty of me to say that you're bullshitting when you bullshit without any proof or evidence.

Give me a fucking break.

If everyone knows, and everyone has seen the proof, then just fucking cite the proof. How is this hard?

Oh right, because it didn't actually happen, and there is nothing to cite.

Fucking asinine.

497 palomino  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:54:28pm

re: #450 Dark_Falcon

Quite Concur. Those "missing ballots" being found stunk to high heaven. That alone is clear and convincing evidence of fraud to me.

So ACORN of some other Alinskyite group just fabricated ballots?

Don't you need more than a gut feeling to claim someone stole an election?

498 shutdown  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:55:08pm

re: #488 Alouette

Where is New Jack City? Is that a Jersey thing?

Shmush shmush.

Oh, Alouette. Do you have a good Chakchouka recipe?

499 palomino  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:55:09pm

re: #463 lostlakehiker

You might ask the Wall Street Journal about it. This is NOT a ridiculous claim. it's simply history. THAT IS WHAT HAPPENED.

In your mind.

500 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:55:23pm

re: #490 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes, but you're still not answering my question. Tell me what the New Republicans who are going to be surging into DC on a platform of 'fuck the Feds' in a couple weeks will say if people are told they must have a passport to vote.

Seriously. This is one of the major reasons I see why this will not happen any time soon.

stop blaming the Rs... and deal with the issue. The fact they they don't want it should make you all for it... unless of course

501 darthstar  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:55:30pm

re: #474 Amory Blaine

She's laying face down drunk in the street! LOL! I like these ONION roundtables.

It's actually not that hard to do (laying face down drunk in the street in a foreign country)...though I wouldn't recommend doing it more than once.

502 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:56:06pm

re: #486 lostlakehiker

Within the past month, WSJ ran an article in which it was mentioned, as uncontested simple fact, that the Franken election had been stolen. There isn't any controversy here. But I don't write down page numbers and dates for every story. If you care, you can get it from a library. But you won't accept that story, because it doesn't cite particulars either. It doesn't have to. Everybody knows, and has seen the proof.

I rather suspect that the left knows too, in its heart. But hey, a win is a win is a win, and better still if anyone who brings up how that win became a win is silenced.

"Everybody knows".

That's contemptible. You have no evidence, no links, but you have accepted it as fact because it's politically comfortable for you.

I rather suspect that you know that, too, in your heart.

I have no more time for this crap. If you're going to accuse a man of a crime, you must have some actual proof.

And this would look much better if you could provide ANY sort of link or evidence. This is the closest you have gotten, after months of routinely accusing Franken of voter fraud.

503 lostlakehiker  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:56:11pm

re: #306 APox

""This is a preventable disease," says Sicilia, because there is a vaccine for whooping cough to protect those coming in contact with infants, and thereby protect the infants.
However, some parents are choosing to not vaccinate their children. "

Is this vaccination common for children to have?

Common, indeed, universal apart from nutter parents. It's part of the DPT package: diphtheria, pertussis (whooping cough), tetanus. Vaccination is a triumph of the human mind and a universal good. Vaccination is patriotism, taking the side of humanity against indiscriminate killing nanomachines that kill simply because it is their nature to kill. Without malice but without pity.

504 Amory Blaine  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:56:54pm

What? Al Franken stole the election?

505 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:56:56pm

re: #488 Alouette

Where is New Jack City? Is that a Jersey thing?

Shmush shmush.

It was a rap/crime type film back in the late eighties, with, I think, Wesley Snipes.

506 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:56:57pm

re: #453 SanFranciscoZionist

Lost cats, in my old neighborhood were coyote lunch!
So sorry, you lost your cat, but it's gone now.
You should've taken better care of your pet.
(You could say the same of their kids, but they didn't get eaten...)

507 webevintage  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:57:14pm

Goggle:
[Link: politics.usnews.com...]

Like Clockwork Conservaties Return to Voter Fraud
[Link: mediamatters.org...]

508 shutdown  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:57:21pm

re: #477 brookly red

do you have a passport?

A couple. And none of them are a perfect form of identification, even the ones that store bio-data like fingerprints etc.

509 palomino  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:57:55pm

re: #471 rwmofo

Well we can all relax in a couple weeks, because this one won't be close.

You're right. Reactionary white backlash will have a few more days in the sun, as it slowly disappears.

Nov. 2--the day the gop went completely nuts.

510 darthstar  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:58:22pm

re: #504 Amory Blaine

What? Al Franken stole the election?

That recount showed the true colors of today's Republicans and Norm Coleman specifically...Screw integrity - fight to the death...and die.

511 shutdown  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:58:23pm

re: #499 palomino

In your mind bed.


FTFY

512 Jadespring  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:58:28pm

re: #487 palomino

Still waiting for some linkage.

Could it be this one from July maybe?

[Link: online.wsj.com...]


If it is then it doesn't have much to do with Franken himself 'stealing' the election.

513 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:58:38pm

re: #494 rwmofo

No. I just don't currently have the energy to dig up the FrankenFraud links. The beer buzz is wearing off from meeting my buds at happy hour and I don't really feeling like sparring right now. That could change, however.

Whatever. I am sick of this crap. If you feel like offering any solid information about this big election steal that everone knows about, let me know.

I was open-minded about this for a long time. I asked for information. I got nothing but 'well, it HAS to have been election fraud'. I am running out of open-mindedness.

514 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:58:57pm

re: #507 webevintage

As I figured. An op-ed.

What a fucking joke.

515 Amory Blaine  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:59:03pm

re: #509 palomino

You're right. Reactionary white backlash will have a few more days in the sun, as it slowly disappears.

Nov. 2--the day the gop went completely nuts.

Oh no. This is going to springboard their real push for 2012.

516 lostlakehiker  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:59:22pm

re: #489 webevintage

Well that's the problem.
We are all being assured a Republican sweep.
Might happen, might not.
If it does not the TeaGOP Party will be screaming "ACORN VOTER FRAUD" and refuse to admit that the polls just. might. be. wrong.

It's not that the polls might be wrong, but that voter opinion might shift. Republicans are already energized. Democrats, watching from the sidelines, may weigh in after all. The prospect of nutters like Rand Paul or COD in Congress ought to energize them.

Please, Democrats, stop us from winning these races. For your sake, for the sake of the nation, and because at the moment, sadly, we cannot protect our own virtue by throwing the race.

517 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:59:31pm

re: #498 imp_62

Oh, Alouette. Do you have a good Chakchouka recipe?

No. I don't like tomato omelet.

518 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:59:43pm

re: #500 brookly red

stop blaming the Rs... and deal with the issue. The fact they they don't want it should make you all for it... unless of course

I don't think Democrats would go for it either, my fellow registered Democrat. As my post above indicates. But they are not the ones whining voter fraud all the damn time.

519 bratwurst  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:59:48pm

re: #513 SanFranciscoZionist

Whatever. I am sick of this crap. If you feel like offering any solid information about this big election steal that everone knows about, let me know.
.

Well, to be fair...he DOES have a good excuse, his happy hour buzz wearing off and all.

520 palomino  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:59:53pm

re: #486 lostlakehiker

Within the past month, WSJ ran an article in which it was mentioned, as uncontested simple fact, that the Franken election had been stolen. There isn't any controversy here. But I don't write down page numbers and dates for every story. If you care, you can get it from a library. But you won't accept that story, because it doesn't cite particulars either. It doesn't have to. Everybody knows, and has seen the proof.

I rather suspect that the left knows too, in its heart. But hey, a win is a win is a win, and better still if anyone who brings up how that win became a win is silenced.

So as long as it was mentioned, by somebody somewhere, then you'll buy it?

521 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 8:59:55pm

re: #500 brookly red

stop blaming the Rs... and deal with the issue. The fact they they don't want it should make you all for it... unless of course

And by the way, fuck your insinuation.

522 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:00:37pm

re: #508 imp_62

A couple. And none of them are a perfect form of identification, even the ones that store bio-data like fingerprints etc.

Thank you, OK so one more reason we need a national ID as if voter fraud was not enough we got simple identity theft too...

523 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:00:56pm

re: #486 lostlakehiker

Within the past month, WSJ ran an article in which it was mentioned, as uncontested simple fact, that the Franken election had been stolen. There isn't any controversy here. But I don't write down page numbers and dates for every story. If you care, you can get it from a library. But you won't accept that story, because it doesn't cite particulars either. It doesn't have to. Everybody knows, and has seen the proof.

I rather suspect that the left knows too, in its heart. But hey, a win is a win is a win, and better still if anyone who brings up how that win became a win is silenced.

Do you realize how poor this argument sounds? You have no evidence beyond somebody somewhere sounded like they were convinced it was true so, by golly, it must be true.

524 lostlakehiker  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:01:24pm

re: #512 Jadespring

Could it be this one from July maybe?

[Link: online.wsj.com...]

If it is then it doesn't have much to do with Franken himself 'stealing' the election.

I never said Franken himself had any hand in it. That's most unlikely. BUT, swings of 1000 votes are also MOST unlikely. The normal run of recounts sees a swing of a handful of votes. Almost always less than 100.

525 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:01:57pm

re: #521 SanFranciscoZionist

And by the way, fuck your insinuation.

touche, all I am saying is give law a chance....

526 palomino  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:02:05pm

re: #496 Obdicut

SO in other words, you have no proof, and you attempted to cite an article-- which I'm betting was an op-ed-- that had no proof. Or even evidence. Of any sort.

And apparently, it's somehow high and mighty of me to say that you're bullshitting when you bullshit without any proof or evidence.

Give me a fucking break.

If everyone knows, and everyone has seen the proof, then just fucking cite the proof. How is this hard?

Oh right, because it didn't actually happen, and there is nothing to cite.

Fucking asinine.

Look, in Limbaugh Land, there's no need for proof that Stewart Smalley (haha, never gets old) stole the election. So who the fuck do you think you are asking for proof?

527 lostlakehiker  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:02:25pm

re: #520 palomino

So as long as it was mentioned, by somebody somewhere, then you'll buy it?

That's not the point. I read the evidence at the time. So did most of you. I know, and you know. Swings that big aren't in the cards unless the deck is stacked.

528 shutdown  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:02:47pm

re: #522 brookly red

Thank you, OK so one more reason we need a national ID as if voter fraud was not enough we got simple identity theft too...

What system do you have in mind? Insert RFID chips in every citizen at birth? Forgive me for getting nervous when people suggest ever better ways to catalogue and track individuals. I would rather live with a few malcontents bugging out their eyes and yelling "voter fraud" every so often.

529 webevintage  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:03:31pm

re: #514 Obdicut

As I figured. An op-ed.

What a fucking joke.

Yeah...so not really an investigative article but one from a guy with an ax to grind.
[Link: online.wsj.com...]

530 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:03:52pm

re: #459 lostlakehiker

The French collapsed for reasons that went beyond bad generalship. The art historian Kenneth Clark reported in later life that he'd been to France and he'd come back and met with Churchill, Spring 1940 before the storm broke, and he'd reported that he'd sensed that the French just weren't going to fight. And Churchill just gave him this bleak look, as in, yes, I know that, and now what?

A single Vietnamese battalion held Rommel's Panzer division at the Meuse crossing for a whole day. Meanwhile, whole French divisions simply melted away at the sight of German tanks. Divisions that themselves had more tanks. The fall of France was not a matter of a couple of bad generals having some bad days.

Poland put up a much sterner fight. Relative to her very meager resources, so did Norway.

Belgium and Denmark and the Netherlands I'll give you. They never had a chance.

At the same time, it should be noted that some French troops did fight hard. The detached Maginot fortress near Sedan held out until the it was stormed by the Germans. None of the defenders survived; German anti-fortress assault tactics placed a strong value on flamethrowers and were very brutal, the intent being to scare other defenders into surrendering sooner.

531 avanti  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:03:56pm

Looks like the GOP is gearing up for hearings to pursue their anti-science agenda:

"Congressional Republicans planning an assault on the Obama administration’s environmental record aim to turn Lisa Jackson into public enemy No. 1.

On the campaign trail, Republicans have adopted the Environmental Protection Agency as a favorite symbol of the White House’s regulatory overreach. And behind the scenes in Washington, GOP staffers and K Street lobbyists who say they've been dissed by the EPA administrator are looking forward to getting some revenge."


EPA

532 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:04:19pm

re: #528 imp_62

What system do you have in mind? Insert RFID chips in every citizen at birth? Forgive me for getting nervous when people suggest ever better ways to catalogue and track individuals. I would rather live with a few malcontents bugging out their eyes and yelling "voter fraud" every so often.

oh bull kaka... you like it when you cash a check, or use a credit card.

533 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:04:20pm

re: #524 lostlakehiker

You literally have nothing, except a belief that a recount can never produce numbers that large. You have nothing. No evidence, just a fervent belief.

So what is the 'proof' that you've been alleging everyone saw?

534 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:06:24pm

re: #519 bratwurst

Well, to be fair...he DOES have a good excuse, his happy hour buzz wearing off and all.

Taking deep breaths. I take voter fraud a bit serious.

535 webevintage  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:06:34pm

re: #527 lostlakehiker

That's not the point. I read the evidence at the time. So did most of you. I know, and you know. Swings that big aren't in the cards unless the deck is stacked.

I have a bookmark folder that is named "for dealing with conservatives, tea party folks and firebaggers" and it is full of articles and graphs I might find that I think may come in handy later.
Mostly because I HATE when I know that I know that I read something somewhere but cannot find it later.

536 palomino  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:06:54pm

re: #527 lostlakehiker

That's not the point. I read the evidence at the time. So did most of you. I know, and you know. Swings that big aren't in the cards unless the deck is stacked.

Swings how big? You got any numbers? Stats? Facts?

This is all in your gut, and NO, what you feel so deeply isn't something that the rest of us "know."

537 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:06:56pm

re: #513 SanFranciscoZionist

Whatever. I am sick of this crap. If you feel like offering any solid information about this big election steal that everone knows about, let me know.

I was open-minded about this for a long time. I asked for information. I got nothing but 'well, it HAS to have been election fraud'. I am running out of open-mindedness.

Thank you for that!
Hang in there, SFZ!
TWO more weeks!

538 rwmofo  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:06:59pm

re: #509 palomino

You're right. Reactionary white backlash will have a few more days in the sun, as it slowly disappears.

Nov. 2--the day the gop went completely nuts.

Explain why the voters of Massachusetts decided that a Republican should have "Ted Kennedy's" seat. A bunch of racists there?

539 Jadespring  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:07:05pm

re: #524 lostlakehiker

I never said Franken himself had any hand in it. That's most unlikely. BUT, swings of 1000 votes are also MOST unlikely. The normal run of recounts sees a swing of a handful of votes. Almost always less than 100.

But the article never actually said the election was 'stolen as simple uncontested fact. "

I looked and couldn't find anything after the Fund article about the election on their website.

540 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:07:18pm

re: #524 lostlakehiker

I never said Franken himself had any hand in it. That's most unlikely. BUT, swings of 1000 votes are also MOST unlikely. The normal run of recounts sees a swing of a handful of votes. Almost always less than 100.

So you think that Franken is probably innocent, but someone else intervened and stole the election for him without his knowledge?

For real?

541 bratwurst  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:07:50pm

I really have a feeling we on the verge of a major breakthrough here, people...mark the date, Al Franken is going to be PROVEN to be an illegitimate fraudster RIGHT HERE, TONIGHT. The evidence will be posted ANY MINUTE NOW.

542 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:07:50pm

re: #525 brookly red

touche, all I am saying is give law a chance...

Law was doing OK last I saw.

543 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:08:18pm

re: #513 SanFranciscoZionist

Two weeks!

544 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:08:39pm

re: #496 Obdicut

SO in other words, you have no proof, and you attempted to cite an article-- which I'm betting was an op-ed-- that had no proof. Or even evidence. Of any sort.

And apparently, it's somehow high and mighty of me to say that you're bullshitting when you bullshit without any proof or evidence.

Give me a fucking break.

If everyone knows, and everyone has seen the proof, then just fucking cite the proof. How is this hard?

Oh right, because it didn't actually happen, and there is nothing to cite.

Fucking asinine.

Here is the post, and it is an op-ed that does not state, but implies, it was a fraud based on the votes of felons. It uses some pretty stupid stats to make it look like it is suspicious but gives no solid numbers, nor does it show that any felon voted for the Dems.

It's pretty thin gruel to be feeding any conclusions.

545 shutdown  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:09:18pm

re: #532 brookly red

oh bull kaka... you like it when you cash a check, or use a credit card.

What is it I like? I'm too tired to argue about this. Voter registration is not at the core of what problems this country has. No system is perfect. Any system that approaches perfection is not acceptable for a free democratic body politic. Inefficiency and some voter registration irregularity is the price we pay to live with at least the illusion of personal freedom and privacy.

546 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:09:28pm

re: #534 SanFranciscoZionist

Taking deep breaths. I take voter fraud a bit serious.

So do I. Thankfully, so does Mark Kirk. Howard Dean went nuts at Kirk for planning to deploy voter integrity squads, but to me that's a good sign. If you've got Howard Dean in a screaming rage, you're doing something right.

547 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:09:36pm

re: #542 SanFranciscoZionist

Law was doing OK last I saw.

well we could put and end to all accusations... you need an SS# to open a checking account. We could just vote at ATMs...

548 webevintage  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:10:48pm

re: #538 rwmofo

Explain why the voters of Massachusetts decided that a Republican should have "Ted Kennedy's" seat. A bunch of racists there?

No.
The Dem was a really crappy candidate and Scott Brown got in the race late so it was all about how good looking he was and his sweet truck that proved he was just a regular guy even if that sweet truck was used to drag around the horse trailer with his daughter's horses.
and he will have to be really moderate or he will not be re-elected.

and yes, white America has lost it's freaking mind because OMG! there is a brown guy in the White House.

549 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:10:54pm

re: #538 rwmofo

Explain why the voters of Massachusetts decided that a Republican should have "Ted Kennedy's" seat. A bunch of racists there?

And I firmly believe that November 2nd will see Mark Kirk take Obama's old Senate seat. And he is certainly not a racist either.

550 shutdown  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:11:10pm

re: #540 SanFranciscoZionist

So you think that Franken is probably innocent, but someone else intervened and stole the election for him without his knowledge?

For real?

THE ILLUMINATI!

I just felt like saying that. Cuz the masons aren't organized enough anymore to steal elections.

551 Jadespring  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:13:26pm

Speaking of voting. I need to remember to send in my vote thingy for the municipal election tomorrow. It's pretty cool, the whole thing is done by mail.

552 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:13:49pm

re: #541 bratwurst

I really have a feeling we on the verge of a major breakthrough here, people...mark the date, Al Franken is going to be PROVEN to be an illegitimate fraudster RIGHT HERE, TONIGHT. The evidence will be posted ANY MINUTE NOW.

Where is the throbbing ballot?

553 Jadespring  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:14:51pm

re: #551 Jadespring

I think I might get my cat to help me mark the ballot. Just for the fun of it. ;)

554 palomino  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:15:17pm

re: #538 rwmofo

Explain why the voters of Massachusetts decided that a Republican should have "Ted Kennedy's" seat. A bunch of racists there?

Brown won because he's a moderate, a member of a species that's nearly extinct in today's gop. He's got more in common with most Dems than he does with the tea party.

You're focusing on the small picture. Brown is hardly representative of the new breed of gop candidates (Paul, Angle, O'Donnell) or the TP leadership (Demint, Bachmann, Beck, Armey).

We didn't eradicate racism/xenophobia in the 1960s. We just legislated against it. The TP is filled with this toxin. Scroll through the last month at LGF if you doubt me.

555 shutdown  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:16:01pm

Bed time. May we all wake up to a better world.

556 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:17:05pm

re: #516 lostlakehiker

I'm not sure where you got the idea Franken was trailing Coleman by an insurmountable degree but it's pure nonsense.

Total votes in 2008 was 405,975. Franken trailed Coleman by 215 votes. How is that statistically impossible?

557 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:17:27pm

re: #555 imp_62

Bed time. May we all wake up to a better world.

Sleep tight!!
And, may tomorrow be a better day for you!

558 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:17:45pm

re: #554 palomino

Brown won because he's a moderate, a member of a species that's nearly extinct in today's gop. He's got more in common with most Dems than he does with the tea party.

You're focusing on the small picture. Brown is hardly representative of the new breed of gop candidates (Paul, Angle, O'Donnell) or the TP leadership (Demint, Bachmann, Beck, Armey).

We didn't eradicate racism/xenophobia in the 1960s. We just legislated against it. The TP is filled with this toxin. Scroll through the last month at LGF if you doubt me.

Gee... you sound like Rand Paul now.

559 palomino  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:18:32pm

re: #549 Dark_Falcon

And I firmly believe that November 2nd will see Mark Kirk take Obama's old Senate seat. And he is certainly not a racist either.

Again, you guys miss the big picture by emphasizing the few moderates from blue states left in the gop. They are ideologically dissimilar to the rest of the gop; AND they are a tiny minority in the party.

560 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:19:01pm

re: #559 palomino

And even Kirk doesn't have the courage to say that AGW is real.

561 palomino  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:19:23pm

re: #556 b_sharp

I'm not sure where you got the idea Franken was trailing Coleman by an insurmountable degree but it's pure nonsense.

Total votes in 2008 was 405,975. Franken trailed Coleman by 215 votes. How is that statistically impossible?

Because it's more than a millionth of a percent?

562 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:19:27pm

re: #524 lostlakehiker

I never said Franken himself had any hand in it. That's most unlikely. BUT, swings of 1000 votes are also MOST unlikely. The normal run of recounts sees a swing of a handful of votes. Almost always less than 100.

Do you have any evidence what-so-ever that swings of 525 votes (not 1000) are most unlikely?

563 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:19:48pm

re: #532 brookly red

We do "motor voter" here.
You get a drivers liscence, you register to vote.
Yes, there's probably some fraud, but everyones registered to vote.
Now, do they exercize their Constitutional rights?
Well, that's a choice each individual makes.

564 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:20:39pm

re: #547 brookly red

well we could put and end to all accusations... you need an SS# to open a checking account. We could just vote at ATMs...

Accusations in and of themselves don't create a compelling need to overhaul the system. There should be some kind of proof.

565 palomino  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:21:11pm

re: #558 Walter L. Newton

Gee... you sound like Rand Paul now.


Really? Rand Paul writes posts denouncing Rand Paul?

566 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:21:26pm

re: #527 lostlakehiker

That's not the point. I read the evidence at the time. So did most of you. I know, and you know. Swings that big aren't in the cards unless the deck is stacked.

You don't even have the numbers correct.

You're being foolish. You made a statement that hypothetically can be backed up, but you refuse to even try.

567 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:21:41pm

re: #562 b_sharp

With a little bit of googling I found a Vermont election where there were swings of about 400.

Took like four minutes to do that search.

568 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:22:25pm

re: #565 palomino

Really? Rand Paul writes posts denouncing Rand Paul?

"We didn't eradicate racism/xenophobia in the 1960s. We just legislated against it."

Rand Paul could have said that.

569 palomino  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:22:32pm

re: #563 Floral Giraffe

We do "motor voter" here.
You get a drivers liscence, you register to vote.
Yes, there's probably some fraud, but everyones registered to vote.
Now, do they exercize their Constitutional rights?
Well, that's a choice each individual makes.

And guess which party has worked for decades against motor voter laws?

570 rwmofo  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:22:32pm

re: #548 webevintage

No.
The Dem was a really crappy candidate and Scott Brown got in the race late so it was all about how good looking he was and his sweet truck that proved he was just a regular guy even if that sweet truck was used to drag around the horse trailer with his daughter's horses.
and he will have to be really moderate or he will not be re-elected.

and yes, white America has lost it's freaking mind because OMG! there is a brown guy in the White House.

Oh it gets worse. Those racist Republicans elected an Indian for Governor of Louisiana. Those racist, sexist Republicans are getting ready to elect a female Indian Governor in South Carolina (South Carolina!!!). Those wacky, racist Republicans will also elect a Cuban for Senator in Florida.

My head is about to explode!!!

Oh no! The Republican Senate Minority Leader is married to an Asian! I thought we were all racists!

Oh, not really. It's just what limp-noodle left-wingers say hoping no one will whip out the fact-checker.

Lead-pipe reality provided at no charge.

571 brookly red  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:23:59pm

re: #564 SanFranciscoZionist

Accusations in and of themselves don't create a compelling need to overhaul the system. There should be some kind of proof.

I would think that everyone would want a better system... I guess I am wrong.

572 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:24:17pm

re: #570 rwmofo

I bet they even have a black leader of the GOP, right?

573 Amory Blaine  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:24:58pm

re: #570 rwmofo


It is amazing the number of prominent female candidates for the GOP this year.

574 Jadespring  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:25:34pm

re: #568 Walter L. Newton

"We didn't eradicate racism/xenophobia in the 1960s. We just legislated against it."

Rand Paul could have said that.

So could thousands of other people because it's true. If Rand Paul could have said that then give him a cookie, he'd be right.

575 palomino  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:25:41pm

re: #568 Walter L. Newton

"We didn't eradicate racism/xenophobia in the 1960s. We just legislated against it."

Rand Paul could have said that.

The simple clear difference is that I would have voted YEA to the CRA of 1964; Paul is on record saying he would have voted NAY. I don't think anyone on either side thought it would eradicate all racism. The point was merely to prohibit the most overt racism in public accommodations.

576 Gus  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:26:32pm

re: #549 Dark_Falcon

And I firmly believe that November 2nd will see Mark Kirk take Obama's old Senate seat. And he is certainly not a racist either.

Looks like a toss up. Of course the wingnuts have been hammering against Kirk for a long time including former GOP Senate candidate Andy Martin's rumor that there was a “solid rumor that Kirk is a homosexual." Then we have the usual rants from Michelle Malkin who in September of 2009 rattled off another incoherent rant, blogging GOP cap-and-tax 8′er Rep. Mark Kirk: I promise I won’t pander as a Senator the way I do now. Other pathological wingnuts responses to Kirk can also be found here and here.

577 webevintage  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:27:04pm

re: #570 rwmofo

Oh it gets worse. Those racist Republicans elected an Indian for Governor of Louisiana. Those racist, sexist Republicans are getting ready to elect a female Indian Governor in South Carolina (South Carolina!!!). Those wacky, racist Republicans will also elect a Cuban for Senator in Florida.

My head is about to explode!!!

Oh no! The Republican Senate Minority Leader is married to an Asian! I thought we were all racists!

Oh, not really. It's just what limp-noodle left-wingers say hoping no one will whip out the fact-checker.

Lead-pipe reality provided at no charge.

"I want my country baaaaaccccckkkkk"

578 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:27:57pm

re: #570 rwmofo

Oh it gets worse. Those racist Republicans elected an Indian for Governor of Louisiana. Those racist, sexist Republicans are getting ready to elect a female Indian Governor in South Carolina (South Carolina!!!). Those wacky, racist Republicans will also elect a Cuban for Senator in Florida.

My head is about to explode!!!

Oh no! The Republican Senate Minority Leader is married to an Asian! I thought we were all racists!

Oh, not really. It's just what limp-noodle left-wingers say hoping no one will whip out the fact-checker.

Lead-pipe reality provided at no charge.

You're cherry picking. You're also burning a straw man.

579 rwmofo  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:28:13pm

re: #573 Amory Blaine

It is amazing the number of prominent female candidates for the GOP this year.

I think it's great. Women see things we (guys) don't always see.

580 palomino  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:28:57pm

re: #570 rwmofo

Oh it gets worse. Those racist Republicans elected an Indian for Governor of Louisiana. Those racist, sexist Republicans are getting ready to elect a female Indian Governor in South Carolina (South Carolina!!!). Those wacky, racist Republicans will also elect a Cuban for Senator in Florida.

My head is about to explode!!!

Oh no! The Republican Senate Minority Leader is married to an Asian! I thought we were all racists!

Oh, not really. It's just what limp-noodle left-wingers say hoping no one will whip out the fact-checker.

Lead-pipe reality provided at no charge.

Your party's representation in Congress is currently 98% white and 91% female. Even with big gains that won't change much.

It's not an all or nothing situation. Even during the darkest days of the southern strategy, the gop managed to attract a little minority support. And they still do attract a little minority support.

581 bratwurst  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:29:00pm

re: #576 Gus 802

Looks like a toss up. Of course the wingnuts have been hammering against Kirk for a long time including former GOP Senate candidate Andy Martin's rumor that there was a “solid rumor that Kirk is a homosexual." Then we have the usual rants from Michelle Malkin who in September of 2009 rattled off another incoherent rant, blogging GOP cap-and-tax 8′er Rep. Mark Kirk: I promise I won’t pander as a Senator the way I do now. Other pathological wingnuts responses to Kirk can also be found here and here.

And that is not even mentioning the fact he "misremembered" his own combat record. He was literally quoted as saying "I simply misremembered it wrong".

582 Gus  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:29:45pm

Looks like a temporary victory for the homophobes and bigots.

Court allows Pentagon to re-instate ban on gay soldiers

An appeals court has ruled the US military can temporarily reinstate a ban on openly gay people serving, in a move adding to disarray on the issue.

583 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:30:45pm

re: #582 Gus 802

Looks like a temporary victory for the homophobes and bigots.

Court allows Pentagon to re-instate ban on gay soldiers

Agh, I'll say it again. There are plenty of openly gay men and women who will make much better military personale than I ever will.

584 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:30:55pm

re: #582 Gus 802

Looks like a temporary victory for the homophobes and bigots.

Court allows Pentagon to re-instate ban on gay soldiers

I hate judicial activism.

585 palomino  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:31:03pm

re: #577 webevintage

"I want my country baaaccckkk"

The country they want back is irretrievable. It exists only in their minds and in the Norman Rockwell paintings of their childhood.

586 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:31:38pm

Good night folks.

The lack of evidence shown tonight was incredibly frustrating, so I'm going to go read some SciFi to calm my mind.

See you sometime tomorrow.

587 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:31:44pm

re: #450 Dark_Falcon

Quite Concur. Those "missing ballots" being found stunk to high heaven. That alone is clear and convincing evidence of fraud to me.

Clear and convincing evidence huh. Tell us, are you just as certain about this conclusion you've formed in the absence of actual knowledge as you were about your idea of how tax brackets worked?

re: #546 Dark_Falcon

So do I. Thankfully, so does Mark Kirk. Howard Dean went nuts at Kirk for planning to deploy voter integrity squads, but to me that's a good sign. If you've got Howard Dean in a screaming rage, you're doing something right.

He's sending them to predominately black districts, the intent is to suppress the black vote, make it harder for their vote to count. This is the reality of the situation you're happy about. If you actually are afraid of voter fraud then you're just afraid of yet another lie that's been pounded into your skull your entire life, argument by Chicagoan authority notwithstanding. You've swallowed these lies in spite of the actual evidence, proven by the fact that you haven't actually produced any proof, just feelings, I live here bullshit and supposition.

And I firmly believe that November 2nd will see Mark Kirk take Obama's old Senate seat. And he is certainly not a racist either.

Right, he's just concerned about black voter fraud.

Voter fraud is an excuse, a lie which you've swallowed hook, line, sinker, tackle box, and pier. It's the perfect faceless bogeyman, the "dem machine," a way of turning every loss into a hateful abstraction. It's not conducive to reality, it is denial.

588 palomino  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:32:18pm

re: #579 rwmofo

I think it's great. Women see things we (guys) don't always see.

Unfortunately women like Angle, O'Donnell and Palin see things no one else sees.

589 rwmofo  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:33:50pm

re: #580 palomino

Your party's representation in Congress is currently 98% white and 91% female. Even with big gains that won't change much.

It's not an all or nothing situation. Even during the darkest days of the southern strategy, the gop managed to attract a little minority support. And they still do attract a little minority support.

Actually my party is attracting the majority of voters again. This means the centrists have moved back to the right. It has nothing to do with race. It's solely based on better ideas.

590 yasharki  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:34:39pm

re: #588 palomino

Unfortunately women like Angle, O'Donnell and Palin see things no one else sees.

They see green, so they're saying whatever brings the doe their way.

591 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:34:43pm

re: #589 rwmofo

No, more like fear.
OOGA BOOGA MUSLIM COMMUNITY CENTER OF TERROR AND DEATH!

592 Renaissance_Man  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:36:25pm

re: #589 rwmofo

Actually my party is attracting the majority of voters again. This means the centrists have moved back to the right. It has nothing to do with race. It's solely based on better ideas.

Feel free to name some of those better ideas anytime. With some specifics, if you would; 'smaller government' is not an 'idea', per se.

And, if you do in fact have any of these 'better ideas', perhaps you should send them to the GOP so they can campaign on them.

593 webevintage  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:37:20pm

Speaking of Palin....she desecrated a flag today and then tried to eat a dog.

[Link: wonkette.com...]

594 palomino  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:37:28pm

re: #589 rwmofo

Actually my party is attracting the majority of voters again. This means the centrists have moved back to the right. It has nothing to do with race. It's solely based on better ideas.

Really, it's that simple? A lousy economy plays no role?

And before you count those centrist eggs as permanent gop holds, you should remember two things. First, the pendulum you're talking about has swung back and forth SIX times in the last 20 years. One party wins, the other party wins, etc, etc. It's the history of our politics.

The other thing is that the centrists you're currently about to win back are overwhelmingly white. And whites are a rapidly shrinking portion of the electorate.

So, sorry, but no soup or permanent republican majority for you!

595 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:38:28pm

re: #576 Gus 802

Looks like a toss up. Of course the wingnuts have been hammering against Kirk for a long time including former GOP Senate candidate Andy Martin's rumor that there was a “solid rumor that Kirk is a homosexual." Then we have the usual rants from Michelle Malkin who in September of 2009 rattled off another incoherent rant, blogging GOP cap-and-tax 8′er Rep. Mark Kirk: I promise I won’t pander as a Senator the way I do now. Other pathological wingnuts responses to Kirk can also be found here and here.

Kirk voted for cap and trade in 2009, since it was what his constituents wanted. He votes according to the wishes of those who vote for him, not to please some talk show host. However, he has announced that as a Senator he will vote against cap-and-trade, since the state wide Republican constituency does not support it.

596 Gus  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:39:35pm

re: #589 rwmofo

Actually my party is attracting the majority of voters again. This means the centrists have moved back to the right. It has nothing to do with race. It's solely based on better ideas.

Better ideas? I doubt it. Just different ideas for the time being. American's tend to react more than think. Right now they're dancing over to the Republican side as they always do when they don't think the Dems are doing good enough. It'll flip over to the Dem advantage again once the American public think the Republicans are failing.

I wouldn't get too excited because other than a House majority they won't get the majority in the Senate and Obama remains in the White House for the next two years. About the only thing I can agree with the GOP at this point is fiscal policy. Otherwise, they remain to be a party that panders by and large to the religious right.

597 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:41:06pm

re: #584 Walter L. Newton

I hate judicial activism.

The term is meaningless subjective tautology, everyone disagrees with the decisions they disagree with.

598 Jadespring  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:41:15pm

re: #593 webevintage

Speaking of Palin...she desecrated a flag today and then tried to eat a dog.

[Link: wonkette.com...]

Thanks for something that made me giggle.

599 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:41:50pm

re: #571 brookly red

I would think that everyone would want a better system... I guess I am wrong.

1. I am not sure that there is any need for a nationwide 'better system'. I certainly have seen no proof of such a need, or real indication that a nationwide system would actually be better. I am open to arguments in favor of such.

2. You still have not answered my basic point which is that this is possibly the worst possible time in US electoral HISTORY to start talking about requiring Federal IDs for anything. Do you disagree?

3. I'm not sure such a system would make it through the courts.

600 Gus  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:42:23pm

re: #595 Dark_Falcon

Kirk voted for cap and trade in 2009, since it was what his constituents wanted. He votes according to the wishes of those who vote for him, not to please some talk show host. However, he has announced that as a Senator he will vote against cap-and-trade, since the state wide Republican constituency does not support it.

I wouldn't support cap-and-trade. However, I am curious. If he does win will he be a Senator to support the need of the people of Illinois or just a Republican constituency? Not all of those that will vote for him come November will be registered Republicans. He will get independent voters and even some registered Democrats. Anyway, I serious doubt that the people of Illionois see cap-and-trade as an important and immediate issue.

601 rwmofo  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:42:25pm

re: #592 Renaissance_Man

Feel free to name some of those better ideas anytime. With some specifics, if you would; 'smaller government' is not an 'idea', per se.

And, if you do in fact have any of these 'better ideas', perhaps you should send them to the GOP so they can campaign on them.

Get government spending under control - as in spend less than that which we receive through taxes. It's not really that difficult to comprehend and I'm not the first one to suggest this.

602 blueraven  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:42:39pm

re: #512 Jadespring

Could it be this one from July maybe?

[Link: online.wsj.com...]

If it is then it doesn't have much to do with Franken himself 'stealing' the election.

An opinion piece by John Fund? ..and the election results were studied by a "conservative watchdog group". No, no bias there at all.
//

603 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:42:49pm

The thing that frustrates me about the GOP is they talk a great deal about limited government yet they have manty candidates who want stricter restrictions on abortion, oppose gay marriage and even civil unions in some cases, and Christine O'Donnell flat out said in the debate she disagreed with decisions regarding pornography. And Joe Miller's admiration for the GDR and the Berlin Wall is really telling. Wonder how much his wall would cost anyhow. Plus, he's full of bs too considering he took money from the feds for his farms in the 90's I believe.You want to say you're for limited governmetn then stop pandering to social reactionaryism. you don't have to like gay marriage but it is a bullshit position to claim that you're for small government yet want the government to tell two adults they can't marry each other because they're of the same gender.

604 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:43:02pm

re: #597 goddamnedfrank

The term is meaningless subjective tautology, everyone disagrees with the decisions they disagree with.

Then I suspect we will never hear you using the term for your debating advantage... thanks.

605 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:43:04pm

re: #593 webevintage

Speaking of Palin...she desecrated a flag today and then tried to eat a dog.

[Link: wonkette.com...]

Oh dear.

606 Gus  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:43:43pm

re: #601 rwmofo

Get government spending under control - as in spend less than that which we receive through taxes. It's not really that difficult to comprehend and I'm not the first one to suggest this.

I'm sure that the GOP will get behind ending farm, oil, mineral, and gas subsidies right away.

/

607 webevintage  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:45:38pm

I think it is AWESOME that here in Arkansas we are (probably) going to vote in Tim Griffin who was named as one of the most corrupt candidates running.
[Link: www.citizensforethics.org...]
Vote Caging and involved in the whole JD prosecutor scandal.
[Link: www.arktimes.com...]

Yeah red states!!!!

608 palomino  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:46:19pm

re: #601 rwmofo

Get government spending under control - as in spend less than that which we receive through taxes. It's not really that difficult to comprehend and I'm not the first one to suggest this.

Here's the rub. Republicans, and even some Dems, have been saying that for decades. But when push comes to shove, everyone wants somebody else's favorite programs to take the biggest hits.

There won't be any real progress on the deficit until republicans and dems agree to put everything (ss, medicare, military, tax hikes, etc) on the table. As of now there's no indication that members of either party are willing to do that.

609 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:46:45pm

re: #587 goddamnedfrank

So because he's send some of his inspectors into black neighborhoods, that proves he's up to no good?

Please. That's just "voter suppression" BS. Chicago has a fraud problem, and Mark Kirk wants to make sure he's protected against it. He wants every legal vote counted. The purpose of inspectors is to avoid shenanigans.

610 rwmofo  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:47:24pm

re: #596 Gus 802

Better ideas? I doubt it. Just different ideas for the time being. American's tend to react more than think. Right now they're dancing over to the Republican side as they always do when they don't think the Dems are doing good enough. It'll flip over to the Dem advantage again once the American public think the Republicans are failing.

I wouldn't get too excited because other than a House majority they won't get the majority in the Senate and Obama remains in the White House for the next two years. About the only thing I can agree with the GOP at this point is fiscal policy. Otherwise, they remain to be a party that panders by and large to the religious right.

Help me with democrats who go to church. I haven't heard much about the "religious left." Please explain. BTW, my bullshit detector is turned on right now. Go for it.

611 palomino  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:48:07pm

re: #606 Gus 802

I'm sure that the GOP will get behind ending farm, oil, mineral, and gas subsidies right away.

/

Nail on the head. Too many entrenched interests...largely local interests that may like the general sound of "small govt" but don't really want to give up any pieces of the pie they currently receive.

612 webevintage  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:48:33pm

re: #609 Dark_Falcon

Chicago has a fraud problem, and Mark Kirk wants to make sure he's protected against it. He wants every legal vote counted. The purpose of inspectors is to avoid shenanigans.

[Link: www.truthaboutfraud.org...]

613 stevemcg  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:48:45pm

re: #601 rwmofo

Get government spending under control - as in spend less than that which we receive through taxes. It's not really that difficult to comprehend and I'm not the first one to suggest this.

We have exactly the government we voted for. Voters never wanted fiscal austerity. All they ever wanted was not to have to pay for the big government they were voting for.

614 Gus  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:48:46pm

re: #610 rwmofo

Help me with democrats who go to church. I haven't heard much about the "religious left." Please explain. BTW, my bullshit detector is turned on right now. Go for it.

Ha! Actually, never mind. If your bullshit detector went on with that comment my radar just detected a serious case of denial.

The religious right has the GOP under their thumb. Get over it.

615 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:49:39pm

Submitted for your approval, spoofing the teabags:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Shatner poetry, BP, Palin and more...

616 rwmofo  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:50:48pm

re: #599 SanFranciscoZionist

1. I am not sure that there is any need for a nationwide 'better system'. I certainly have seen no proof of such a need, or real indication that a nationwide system would actually be better. I am open to arguments in favor of such.

2. You still have not answered my basic point which is that this is possibly the worst possible time in US electoral HISTORY to start talking about requiring Federal IDs for anything. Do you disagree?

3. I'm not sure such a system would make it through the courts.

How about a Driver's License or any acceptable form of ID - like what's required to get on a plane? I don't think a federal ID should be required, but if you want to vote without an ID, then hop behind the wheel and drive off, that smells fishy.

617 Jadespring  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:50:57pm

re: #608 palomino

Here's the rub. Republicans, and even some Dems, have been saying that for decades. But when push comes to shove, everyone wants somebody else's favorite programs to take the biggest hits.

There won't be any real progress on the deficit until republicans and dems agree to put everything (ss, medicare, military, tax hikes, etc) on the table. As of now there's no indication that members of either party are willing to do that.

This sort of statement is a pretty common general election statement from political parties on all sorts of sides, in all sorts of countries too.

Get govt spending under control!

Party x --yep
Party y - yep
party a, b and c in Timbucktoo -- yep

It's the specifics on how to do it that make the differences between them.
The specifics, especially during and election, are the hardest part to pin down.

618 palomino  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:51:07pm

re: #610 rwmofo

Help me with democrats who go to church. I haven't heard much about the "religious left." Please explain. BTW, my bullshit detector is turned on right now. Go for it.

The "religious left" leaves church where it belongs--in church.

619 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:51:17pm

re: #611 palomino

Nail on the head. Too many entrenched interests...largely local interests that may like the general sound of "small govt" but don't really want to give up any pieces of the pie they currently receive.

There's that and the whole dishonesty. I loved hearing that the sob who told his supporters to smash the windows of congresspeople who voted for Obama's health care plan was revealed to be taking disability money from the feds. To me many of these people have no credibility because of stuff like that and what you're talking about here. I'm sorry but I am extremely skeptical of most self described small government conservatives because more of them seem more concerned with pushing their morals on the rest of us and whining about how Christians are being persecuted than they are doing anything about fiscal policy.

620 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:52:06pm

re: #600 Gus 802

I wouldn't support cap-and-trade. However, I am curious. If he does win will he be a Senator to support the need of the people of Illinois or just a Republican constituency? Not all of those that will vote for him come November will be registered Republicans. He will get independent voters and even some registered Democrats. Anyway, I serious doubt that the people of Illionois see cap-and-trade as an important and immediate issue.

He won the votes of many registered Democrats in the 10th District. He's a consensus politician who follows the will of his supporters fairly closely.

621 Gus  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:52:09pm

re: #618 palomino

The "religious left" leaves church where it belongs--in church.

I'm just waiting to see where this alleged "religious left" is equal to the religious right.

622 yasharki  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:52:38pm

re: #618 palomino

The "religious left" leaves church where it belongs--in church.

+1

623 lostlakehiker  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:52:50pm

There's no point in discussing this any longer. If anyone can tell of a Republican coming from behind by 1000 votes, or even a few hundred, to win, let me know.

If such a thing is common in one direction, but unheard of in the other, the hypothesis that it's an honest process and that the swings one sees in the counts are the result of chance factors crumples.

And everyone here knows that.

624 Gus  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:53:48pm

Here. I'll save you the trouble!

Reverend Al Sharpton!!11ty is part of the religious left!!!111ty

625 webevintage  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:54:44pm

re: #623 lostlakehiker

There's no point in discussing this any longer. If anyone can tell of a Republican coming from behind by 1000 votes, or even a few hundred, to win, let me know.

George W Bush

(yeah I'm bitter...don't judge me)

626 stevemcg  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:54:52pm

If you are anti abortion, but you also believe in social justice, are yo a member of the religious right or the religious left?

627 palomino  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:55:00pm

re: #613 stevemcg

We have exactly the government we voted for. Voters never wanted fiscal austerity. All they ever wanted was not to have to pay for the big government they were voting for.

Precisely. I have a hard time believing that the seniors and boomers at the TP rallies really want entitlement reform that would affect their monthly checks.

628 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:56:21pm

re: #627 palomino

Precisely. I have a hard time believing that the seniors and boomers at the TP rallies really want entitlement reform that would affect their monthly checks.

Government out of my medicare!

629 stevemcg  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:56:43pm

re: #627 palomino

I do think welfare and medicaid will get clobbered. But just because you take those expenses off the federal books doesn't mean the costs go away.

630 palomino  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:56:52pm

re: #617 Jadespring

This sort of statement is a pretty common general election statement from political parties on all sorts of sides, in all sorts of countries too.

Get govt spending under control!

Party x --yep
Party y - yep
party a, b and c in Timbucktoo -- yep

It's the specifics on how to do it that make the differences between them.
The specifics, especially during and election, are the hardest part to pin down.

It won't happen until we reach a real undeniable crisis. Then both parties will have to work together. Unfortunately that means the crisis we're in now isn't severe enough to motivate action.

631 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:57:18pm

re: #625 webevintage

George W Bush

(yeah I'm bitter...don't judge me)

I'm bitter about that too. He was one of the worst presidents in our history.

632 webevintage  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:57:44pm

I hear tell that the TeaGOP Party is for "personal liberty" but I have yet to see any evidence of that when one thinks of DADT, gay marriage, gays adopting and abortion.

I hear tell that the TeaGOP Party is for cutting the deficit/spending but none of them seem to be able to actually say WHAT (besides programs that help poor people) they would cut.

633 Gus  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:58:01pm

Anyone that thinks Al Franken "stole the election" should get fitted for a tin foil hat.

Full stop.

634 palomino  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:58:11pm

re: #619 HappyWarrior

There's that and the whole dishonesty. I loved hearing that the sob who told his supporters to smash the windows of congresspeople who voted for Obama's health care plan was revealed to be taking disability money from the feds. To me many of these people have no credibility because of stuff like that and what you're talking about here. I'm sorry but I am extremely skeptical of most self described small government conservatives because more of them seem more concerned with pushing their morals on the rest of us and whining about how Christians are being persecuted than they are doing anything about fiscal policy.

"keep your damn government hands off my social security"

Priceless.

635 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:58:49pm

re: #601 rwmofo

Get government spending under control - as in spend less than that which we receive through taxes. It's not really that difficult to comprehend and I'm not the first one to suggest this.

Oh, please.
NO REPUBLICAN HAS EVER DONE THIS.
;)

636 stevemcg  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:59:00pm

re: #631 LudwigVanQuixote

I'm bitter about that too. He was one of the worst presidents in our history.

I tried. I kept warning everybody I knew that he was going to be a disaster.

637 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 9:59:36pm

re: #618 palomino

The "religious left" leaves church where it belongs--in church.

Then they wouldn't religious at all. Both Christianity and Judaism aren't just for their houses of worship, they are meant to provide moral principles by which to live your life. To say that certain types of religious morality should not be codified into law is not "leaving religion in church"; It is simply following our nations Constitution and refusing to attempt to force others to believe as you do.

638 rwmofo  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:00:30pm

re: #624 Gus 802

Here. I'll save you the trouble!

Reverend Al Sharpton!!11ty is part of the religious left!!!111ty

Al Sharpton?

LOL!

Who are you going to brag about next? Joey Buttafuoco?

Ya gotta love lefties. Heh.

639 Gus  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:01:03pm

re: #638 rwmofo

Al Sharpton?

LOL!

Who are you going to brag about next? Joey Buttafuoco?

Ya gotta love lefties. Heh.

You referring to me?

640 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:01:52pm

re: #631 LudwigVanQuixote

Hello, You!
Don't be bitter, whatever it is, it's water under the bridge.
Make tomorrow a better day.

I'll now go back & read.

641 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:02:18pm

Republicans - Cut taxes and spend!
Democrats - Raise taxes and spend!
WHEEE

642 webevintage  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:02:42pm

Night guys.

643 stevemcg  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:02:44pm

re: #632 webevintage

I hear tell that the TeaGOP Party is for "personal liberty" but I have yet to see any evidence of that when one thinks of DADT, gay marriage, gays adopting and abortion.

I hear tell that the TeaGOP Party is for cutting the deficit/spending but none of them seem to be able to actually say WHAT (besides programs that help poor people) they would cut.

One thing people fail to realize is that government entitlements go a long way to subsidize poverty level wages.

644 palomino  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:03:12pm

re: #623 lostlakehiker

There's no point in discussing this any longer. If anyone can tell of a Republican coming from behind by 1000 votes, or even a few hundred, to win, let me know.

If such a thing is common in one direction, but unheard of in the other, the hypothesis that it's an honest process and that the swings one sees in the counts are the result of chance factors crumples.

And everyone here knows that.

Again, NO, we don't know that. A few hundred votes out of 2 million isn't the freakish occurrence you suggest. The original margin of Coleman victory was seven one-thousandths of a percent. You're deluded if you think that's too large a victory to be legitimately overturned by a recount.

645 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:03:20pm

re: #638 rwmofo

Al Sharpton?

LOL!

Who are you going to brag about next? Joey Buttafuoco?

Ya gotta love lefties. Heh.

Perhaps Gus is more of a centrist and you're further to the right than you admit?
;)

646 Gus  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:04:35pm

re: #645 Varek Raith

Perhaps Gus is more of a centrist and you're further to the right than you admit?
;)

I don't think he understood that it was meant to be sarcasm. You know. Bragging? That wasn't meant to be bragging.

647 palomino  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:04:51pm

re: #629 stevemcg

I do think welfare and medicaid will get clobbered. But just because you take those expenses off the federal books doesn't mean the costs go away.

I can't even see tea partiers in congress going to their old constituents and telling them that their benefits are gonna be cut. Politicians just don't bite the hand that feeds them that overtly.

But point taken about the costs.

648 yasharki  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:05:53pm

re: #637 Dark_Falcon

Then they wouldn't religious at all. Both Christianity and Judaism aren't just for their houses of worship, they are meant to provide moral principles by which to live your life. To say that certain types of religious morality should not be codified into law is not "leaving religion in church"; It is simply following our nations Constitution and refusing to attempt to force others to believe as you do.

I think you missed the point completely. It's not about making commandments into law, it's about not forcing one's supposedly true religion on others, and not making religion a political issue. Henceforth leave religion where it belongs: in church/synagogue/mosque/temple/whatever, just not on a ballot...

649 rwmofo  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:06:24pm

re: #626 stevemcg

If you are anti abortion, but you also believe in social justice, are yo a member of the religious right or the religious left?

I'm a right-winger who's pro-choice and not religious - like an enormous amount of people on the right. So there's no convenient label for us.

I have a couple questions for you:

1) Are you pro-choice?

2) Do you believe we should have the death penalty?

650 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:06:51pm

re: #634 palomino

"keep your damn government hands off my social security"

Priceless.

Pretty much heh. I'll add another thing. The rhetoric about Obama is jsut ridiculous. You know eevn if he was a Muslim why should it matter? There's a vocal group of idiots out there who have been acting like to be a devout Muslim is incompatable with being a loyal American. Hmmm where have I heard that before? Oh yeah when Catholics were said to be more loyal to the pope than Rome or when American JEws have been told they're more loyal to ISrael than the US. And then there's he's not a real American because of how he grew up. Not even going to touch that one because it's so stupid. And then that he's a Communist. Many of his own party's liberals are wary of him. I highly doubt socialists and communists are too keen on him. And I know for a fact they aren't since the SP candidate in 2008 went on Colbert and flat out said he's not one of them. It's just all utter nonsense to me.

651 Jadespring  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:07:29pm

re: #644 palomino

Again, NO, we don't know that. A few hundred votes out of 2 million isn't the freakish occurrence you suggest. The original margin of Coleman victory was seven one-thousandths of a percent. You're deluded if you think that's too large a victory to be legitimately overturned by a recount.

Aren't there some states where an original vote margin of that low (few hundred) automatically triggers a recount? (Washington maybe?) I could be wrong but I'm fairly certain there is. If that's the case then it really does speak to the statistical 'possibilities' with margins that small.

652 palomino  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:08:48pm

re: #637 Dark_Falcon

Then they wouldn't religious at all. Both Christianity and Judaism aren't just for their houses of worship, they are meant to provide moral principles by which to live your life. To say that certain types of religious morality should not be codified into law is not "leaving religion in church"; It is simply following our nations Constitution and refusing to attempt to force others to believe as you do.

Sure, we get much of our moral principles from religion, but in a universal deisitic (think Jeffersonian) sense. Not from the Falwells, Robertsons, Haggards and other sanctimonious charlatans.

What I meant is that there's no overarching religious imperative in the Dem Party as there currently is in the gop. And this is a relatively new phenomenon--in the 1960's the gop was probably MORE secular than the Dems.

653 stevemcg  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:09:24pm

re: #649 rwmofo

I'm a right-winger who's pro-choice and not religious - like an enormous amount of people on the right. So there's no convenient label for us.

I have a couple questions for you:

1) Are you pro-choice?

2) Do you believe we should have the death penalty?

I am pro-choice, only because there's no way in hell anybody's going to take care of all those babies that would be born.

I'm anti-capital punishment because reasonable doubt is not a high enough standard to make a life and death decision.

654 palomino  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:09:43pm

re: #651 Jadespring

Aren't there some states where an original vote margin of that low (few hundred) automatically triggers a recount? (Washington maybe?) I could be wrong but I'm fairly certain there is. If that's the case then it really does speak to the statistical 'possibilities' with margins that small.

Yeah, the "franken stole it" guy is just fixated and uninformed.

655 palomino  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:10:16pm

good nite all. wifey screaming at me to watch tv with her. wifey must be obeyed.

656 rwmofo  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:11:10pm

re: #635 Varek Raith

Oh, please.
NO REPUBLICAN HAS EVER DONE THIS.
;)

It's really simple to look up the budgets proposed by the Republican congress when Newt was Speaker (signed into law by President Clinton). Really simple. So simple I'm not going to provide a link.

657 stevemcg  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:11:22pm

re: #652 palomino

Moral values and religion are like the chicken and the egg. Somehow, if you grew up isolated from religion, you still wouldn't want people ripping you off.

658 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:12:11pm

re: #652 palomino

Sure, we get much of our moral principles from religion, but in a universal deisitic (think Jeffersonian) sense. Not from the Falwells, Robertsons, Haggards and other sanctimonious charlatans.

What I meant is that there's no overarching religious imperative in the Dem Party as there currently is in the gop. And this is a relatively new phenomenon--in the 1960's the gop was probably MORE secular than the Dems.

It is interesting. I can think of two presidential elections between pretty secular GOP candidates and religious Dem candidates. The first that comes to mind is Carter Vs Ford but another is Taft vs Bryan. William Howard Taft from what I've read on him could perhaps have been one of the least religious presidents in the past century. Even read that he openly questioned the divinity of Christ and shrugged TR off when TR suggested he talk about religion more in his speeches and he continued to golf on sundays too.

659 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:12:21pm

re: #656 rwmofo

It's really simple to look up the budgets proposed by the Republican congress when Newt was Speaker (signed into law by President Clinton). Really simple. So simple I'm not going to provide a link.

How about Reagan?
GWB?

660 yasharki  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:13:04pm

re: #653 stevemcg

I am pro-choice, only because there's no way in hell anybody's going to take care of all those babies that would be born.

I'm anti-capital punishment because reasonable doubt is not a high enough standard to make a life and death decision.

So you'd rather feed convicted murderers, instead of feeding orphaned babies?

661 Gus  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:14:13pm

re: #660 yasharki

So you'd rather feed convicted murderers, instead of feeding orphaned babies?

I don't think that's what he meant.

662 rwmofo  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:15:05pm

re: #653 stevemcg

I am pro-choice, only because there's no way in hell anybody's going to take care of all those babies that would be born.

I'm anti-capital punishment because reasonable doubt is not a high enough standard to make a life and death decision.

So you want to kill the innocent and protect the guilty.

663 Gus  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:15:28pm

Must be a full moon.

664 yasharki  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:15:36pm

re: #657 stevemcg

Moral values and religion are like the chicken and the egg. Somehow, if you grew up isolated from religion, you still wouldn't want people ripping you off.

Not getting ripped off is not something you can learn from the bible, what's your point?

665 Amory Blaine  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:15:46pm

Being pro choice makes you want to kill the innocent?

666 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:15:52pm

re: #663 Gus 802

Must be a full moon.

AWHOOOO!!!

667 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:17:05pm

re: #653 stevemcg

I am pro-choice, only because there's no way in hell anybody's going to take care of all those babies that would be born.

I'm anti-capital punishment because reasonable doubt is not a high enough standard to make a life and death decision.

Have to disagree with you about abortion. Maybe we won't be able to but I feel we should at least try. I do agree with you about the DP and understand your point. Honestly, we need better sex ed in school. Abstinence only may look good on paper but it's a crappy policy.

668 stevemcg  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:17:24pm

re: #660 yasharki

So you'd rather feed convicted murderers, instead of feeding orphaned babies?

I would feed the neglected babies. Problem is, they won't be in my house. They'll be in the houses of people who were incapable of some pretty basic functions. It's not a preference of choosing murderers over babies, and you should know better. That was pretty lame on your part.

669 Gus  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:19:16pm

re: #666 Varek Raith

AWHOOO!!!

Oct 23rd.

670 stevemcg  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:19:23pm

re: #664 yasharki

Not getting ripped off is not something you can learn from the bible, what's your point?

It was a pretty simple point. I'm surprised you couldn't get it. You didin't need Moses to bring down the 10 Commandments to tell you what you should and shouldn't do. Hence, my analogy to the chicken and the egg.

671 yasharki  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:20:37pm

re: #668 stevemcg

I would feed the neglected babies. Problem is, they won't be in my house. They'll be in the houses of people who were incapable of some pretty basic functions. It's not a preference of choosing murderers over babies, and you should know better. That was pretty lame on your part.

I was just messing with you, no offense. I know you didn't mean it the way I said.

672 rwmofo  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:21:12pm

re: #659 Varek Raith

How about Reagan?
GWB?

Reagan could only get Tip O'Neill to agree to tax cuts. GDP almost doubled from 1981-1989 due to lower taxes. Unfortunately he couldn't get Tip to control spending. A partial vicory.

George Bush blew it by not vetoing the budgets the Republican congress gave him. Newt and friends paved the way. They balanced the budget and their successors screwed it up. They deserved to lose in 2006.

673 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:22:24pm

I do I have to say despite my more conservative take on abortion really dislike the abortion view that Angle, O'Donnell, and Palin have made prominent in recent months. Can't imagine what it would be like to be a teenaged girl who is raped first off and then told that you're carrying the baby of your rapist. The mental strain would be unimaginable. And candidates like Sharron Angle don't help when they use the life makes you lemonaide analogy. And what happened in Brazil with the doctor being excommunicated because he did an abortion on a raped 10 year old girl was inexucisible by the RCC.

674 stevemcg  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:22:51pm

re: #667 HappyWarrior

Have to disagree with you about abortion. Maybe we won't be able to but I feel we should at least try. I do agree with you about the DP and understand your point. Honestly, we need better sex ed in school. Abstinence only may look good on paper but it's a crappy policy.

I'm not happy about abortion either, but I can't imagine what these millions of "unparented" children would do to our society. We were lucky enough to adopt our daughter because her birth mother went to a clinic but couldn't go through with it. Right now there is a surplus of willing adoptive parents, but they would be no match for the vast numbers of children that would be brought to term if abortion is banned.

675 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:23:43pm

re: #666 Varek Raith

re: #669 Gus 802

AWOOHO!

676 rwmofo  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:24:05pm

re: #665 Amory Blaine

It was a trick question. He swallowed the bait and ran with it.

677 stevemcg  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:24:13pm

re: #672 rwmofo

You been reading that Virginia history book?

678 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:24:50pm

re: #674 stevemcg

I'm not happy about abortion either, but I can't imagine what these millions of "unparented" children would do to our society. We were lucky enough to adopt our daughter because her birth mother went to a clinic but couldn't go through with it. Right now there is a surplus of willing adoptive parents, but they would be no match for the vast numbers of children that would be brought to term if abortion is banned.

Yeah I understand your point. Honestly, I want to reduce the need for abortion in the first place by helping young, poor, and unwed mothers. I'm sure I'd be called a socialist by someone for suggesting such a thing. You have a reasonable point on both issues. Just disagree with you on abortion. I don't vote based on my position on abortion this said. I realize how personal a choice it is and I will never ever judge a woman who makes a tough decision like that one way or the other.

679 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:27:24pm

re: #609 Dark_Falcon

So because he's send some of his inspectors into black neighborhoods, that proves he's up to no good?

Please. That's just "voter suppression" BS. Chicago has a fraud problem, and Mark Kirk wants to make sure he's protected against it. He wants every legal vote counted. The purpose of inspectors is to avoid shenanigans.

You don't think voter supression is a real concern?

680 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:27:47pm

re: #610 rwmofo

Help me with democrats who go to church. I haven't heard much about the "religious left." Please explain. BTW, my bullshit detector is turned on right now. Go for it.

Jim Wallis is probably your best man for the religious left.

681 sagehen  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:27:55pm

re: #623 lostlakehiker

There's no point in discussing this any longer. If anyone can tell of a Republican coming from behind by 1000 votes, or even a few hundred, to win, let me know.

If such a thing is common in one direction, but unheard of in the other, the hypothesis that it's an honest process and that the swings one sees in the counts are the result of chance factors crumples.

And everyone here knows that.

We don't know any such thing.

We know that the old/half-broken/crappy machines, the ones that squish the ballots and make them hard to read, are most likely to be sent to the poor/minority precincts. Which are much leftier than the wealthier precincts. Their spoilage rate is much higher, so their pickups in a handcount will be proportionately higher.

682 rwmofo  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:28:50pm

Catch you kids later.

683 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:29:20pm

re: #679 SanFranciscoZionist

You don't think voter supression is a real concern?

The thing that amuses me here is that I imagine many of the folks who have convinced themselves that ACORN is behind every corner were the same I heard shouting Sore Loserman back in the day. Vote fraud is a real sisue and at the same time voter suppression is a real one as well.

684 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:29:20pm

re: #623 lostlakehiker

Come on, you two can't seriously believe this...
:/

Plus: 2
Dark_Falcon, rwmofo
685 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:29:53pm

re: #616 rwmofo

How about a Driver's License or any acceptable form of ID - like what's required to get on a plane? I don't think a federal ID should be required, but if you want to vote without an ID, then hop behind the wheel and drive off, that smells fishy.

I'm not opposed to voting requiring ID. I make no argument against it, although I have heard some.

But I hesitate to say that voter fraud is a big issue when I so seldom see any real evidence of its taking place.

This is one area where I would rather hear from statistical experts and the like.

686 yasharki  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:30:34pm

re: #670 stevemcg

It was a pretty simple point. I'm surprised you couldn't get it. You didin't need Moses to bring down the 10 Commandments to tell you what you should and shouldn't do. Hence, my analogy to the chicken and the egg.

I beg to differ, humanity did need Moses to bring down the 10 Commandments to tell us what's good and what's bad. Sure I was taught the same morals by my parents and teachers who were atheists (think soviet russia in the 70s). But they didn't just wake up one day and realized what's good and what's bad, these morals were passed through generations for thousands of years, and it just happens that they are based on the Torah. You saying it's a coincidence?

Imagine someone growing up on their own without anyone teaching him/her any morals, would he/she not steal/murder/lie/etc.?

687 stevemcg  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:30:36pm

re: #679 SanFranciscoZionist

I never bought the argument that these extra poll watchers are going to fight voter fraud. I think the real purpose is to keep that bug in your base's ears that people in the inner city (wink wink) are, you know, up to no good.

688 sagehen  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:30:39pm

re: #601 rwmofo

Get government spending under control - as in spend less than that which we receive through taxes. It's not really that difficult to comprehend and I'm not the first one to suggest this.

And yet Bill Clinton is the only president in our lifetimes who's done it. Who's even tried. Where was all the conservative appreciation?

689 Gus  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:30:40pm

re: #684 Varek Raith

Come on, you two can't seriously believe this...
:/

Ask them about Bush vs. Gore.

You'll get a different answer.

690 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:31:03pm

re: #623 lostlakehiker

There's no point in discussing this any longer. If anyone can tell of a Republican coming from behind by 1000 votes, or even a few hundred, to win, let me know.

If such a thing is common in one direction, but unheard of in the other, the hypothesis that it's an honest process and that the swings one sees in the counts are the result of chance factors crumples.

And everyone here knows that.

There's no point in discussing this any longer. You have nothing to argue here.

Any everyone here knows that.

691 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:32:23pm

re: #643 stevemcg

One thing people fail to realize is that government entitlements go a long way to subsidize poverty level wages.

Sure do.

692 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:33:38pm

re: #679 SanFranciscoZionist

You don't think voter supression is a real concern?

Not in this case, no. Roger Keats is the Republican running for president of the Cook County board. He has actively tried to gain black support and Mark Kirk is a team player, not the sort of self-interested asshole who'd throw another candidate under the bus for his own advantage. I assure you, based on all my family knows about Mark Kirk, he will not try to suppress any lawful voters.

693 stevemcg  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:33:54pm

re: #686 yasharki

So you're seriously going to tell me that before Moses, other civilizations, includeing ones that had no contact with the Israelites, had no clue about right and wrong? That before the Ten Commandments, there was no such thing as criminal law?

694 sagehen  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:34:22pm

re: #651 Jadespring

Aren't there some states where an original vote margin of that low (few hundred) automatically triggers a recount? (Washington maybe?) I could be wrong but I'm fairly certain there is. If that's the case then it really does speak to the statistical 'possibilities' with margins that small.

There's several states where anything within 1/2 of 1% requires a handcount.

695 Gus  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:34:30pm

re: #691 SanFranciscoZionist

Sure do.

Check this out.

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

You might notice a pattern here.

696 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:34:46pm

re: #673 HappyWarrior

I do I have to say despite my more conservative take on abortion really dislike the abortion view that Angle, O'Donnell, and Palin have made prominent in recent months. Can't imagine what it would be like to be a teenaged girl who is raped first off and then told that you're carrying the baby of your rapist. The mental strain would be unimaginable. And candidates like Sharron Angle don't help when they use the life makes you lemonaide analogy. And what happened in Brazil with the doctor being excommunicated because he did an abortion on a raped 10 year old girl was inexucisible by the RCC.

The Church's decisions around that were inexcusable. I am deeply angry about that.

697 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:36:19pm

re: #683 HappyWarrior

The thing that amuses me here is that I imagine many of the folks who have convinced themselves that ACORN is behind every corner were the same I heard shouting Sore Loserman back in the day. Vote fraud is a real sisue and at the same time voter suppression is a real one as well.

But in both cases, on a small scale, that I believe CAN be dealt with without federal intervention. This hasn't always (see Civil Rights Movement) been the case, but it is now.

698 Max  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:36:57pm
699 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:37:30pm

re: #696 SanFranciscoZionist

The Church's decisions around that were inexcusable. I am deeply angry about that.

It's actually one of the big reasons why I'll probably never officially join teh Catholic church. I consider myself culturally Catholic in that I get guilty easily, admire saints, etc but the church needs to become more understanding on this issue. The girl was ten years old and a rape victim. That's bad enough and add the fact she could have died giving birth too.

700 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:38:43pm

re: #686 yasharki

I beg to differ, humanity did need Moses to bring down the 10 Commandments to tell us what's good and what's bad. Sure I was taught the same morals by my parents and teachers who were atheists (think soviet russia in the 70s). But they didn't just wake up one day and realized what's good and what's bad, these morals were passed through generations for thousands of years, and it just happens that they are based on the Torah. You saying it's a coincidence?

Imagine someone growing up on their own without anyone teaching him/her any morals, would he/she not steal/murder/lie/etc.?

There's a category of law that the Talmud descibes as being those that any civilized society would create out of self-evident need. Murder, theft and the like.

Pre-Judaic societies had such laws, societies with no contact with Judaism and its related religions had and have such laws.

701 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:40:02pm

re: #686 yasharki

I beg to differ, humanity did need Moses to bring down the 10 Commandments to tell us what's good and what's bad. Sure I was taught the same morals by my parents and teachers who were atheists (think soviet russia in the 70s). But they didn't just wake up one day and realized what's good and what's bad, these morals were passed through generations for thousands of years, and it just happens that they are based on the Torah. You saying it's a coincidence?

Imagine someone growing up on their own without anyone teaching him/her any morals, would he/she not steal/murder/lie/etc.?

Hate to break it to ya, but a number of civilizations already had such laws long before the Bilbe or Moses or Jesus ever existed.

702 sagehen  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:40:39pm

re: #667 HappyWarrior

Have to disagree with you about abortion. Maybe we won't be able to but I feel we should at least try. I do agree with you about the DP and understand your point. Honestly, we need better sex ed in school. Abstinence only may look good on paper but it's a crappy policy.

I'm pro-choice because the bodily autonomy of an existing person outweighs the needs of a potential future person.

I'm anti-death penalty because the Innocence Project has exonerated more than 2% of the people on Death Row -- proved, with DNA, they didn't do what they were convicted of. There's so many cases where there's no biological evidence, or it wasn't maintained well enough to be suitable for testing all these years later, that I'm thinking it's probable there's more innocent people still awaiting execution, but desperately hoping evidence will come available at some future time.

703 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:40:50pm

re: #701 Varek Raith

Hate to break it to ya, but a number of civilizations already had such laws long before the Bible or Moses or Jesus ever existed.

D'oheth!

704 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:41:38pm

re: #699 HappyWarrior

It's actually one of the big reasons why I'll probably never officially join teh Catholic church. I consider myself culturally Catholic in that I get guilty easily, admire saints, etc but the church needs to become more understanding on this issue. The girl was ten years old and a rape victim. That's bad enough and add the fact she could have died giving birth too.

Her father was not excommunicated.

If you feel you can judge a doctor aborting the pregnancy of child, but not the man who raped her, you've pretty much negated any right to be listened to in my book.

It's not about choosing life at that point. It's about choosing certain lives over others.

705 sagehen  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:41:53pm

re: #672 rwmofo

Reagan could only get Tip O'Neill to agree to tax cuts. GDP almost doubled from 1981-1989 due to lower taxes. Unfortunately he couldn't get Tip to control spending. A partial vicory.

George Bush blew it by not vetoing the budgets the Republican congress gave him. Newt and friends paved the way. They balanced the budget and their successors screwed it up. They deserved to lose in 2006.

Historical revisionist of the most egregious sort. Reagan didn't even try to reduce spending -- he increased military spending by a pretty wide margin.

706 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:44:21pm

re: #704 SanFranciscoZionist

Her father was not excommunicated.

If you feel you can judge a doctor aborting the pregnancy of child, but not the man who raped her, you've pretty much negated any right to be listened to in my book.

It's not about choosing life at that point. It's about choosing certain lives over others.

I am not too familiar with teh story. The father was the one who raped her, yes? And they did excommunicate the doctor for doing the procedure. Agree with everything you say here. I lost a ton of respect for the church after learning about this. The abuse scandals of course have played a big role too and people like Bill Donahue always playing the persecutiong card.

707 yasharki  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:45:02pm

re: #693 stevemcg

So you're seriously going to tell me that before Moses, other civilizations, includeing ones that had no contact with the Israelites, had no clue about right and wrong? That before the Ten Commandments, there was no such thing as criminal law?

What does criminal law have to do with any of this? You're mixing law and morals again.

To answer your question: sure other civilizations had laws and had an idea of what's wrong and what's right, but it was dictated by the strongest individual or pure anarchy. Judaism on the other hand made what you call "morals" into universal set of laws, dictated by God, therefore making everyone equal before God's judgement, and requiring all to follow universal set of rules.

708 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:46:51pm

re: #707 yasharki
Same thing different dictator.
Replace "strongest individual" with God.
Same thing.

709 sagehen  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:46:51pm

re: #686 yasharki

I beg to differ, humanity did need Moses to bring down the 10 Commandments to tell us what's good and what's bad. Sure I was taught the same morals by my parents and teachers who were atheists (think soviet russia in the 70s). But they didn't just wake up one day and realized what's good and what's bad, these morals were passed through generations for thousands of years, and it just happens that they are based on the Torah. You saying it's a coincidence?

Imagine someone growing up on their own without anyone teaching him/her any morals, would he/she not steal/murder/lie/etc.?

And yet the Chinese, the Maya, Buddhists, the Iroquois, and a gazillion other cultures managed to forbid those things without ever having heard of Moses or Jesus.

710 yasharki  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:46:52pm

re: #700 SanFranciscoZionist

There's a category of law that the Talmud descibes as being those that any civilized society would create out of self-evident need. Murder, theft and the like.

Pre-Judaic societies had such laws, societies with no contact with Judaism and its related religions had and have such laws.

Yeah, sure, it's "don't do upon other what you don't want be done to yourself", that's pretty self evident, unless you have a bigger gun...

711 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:47:56pm

re: #702 sagehen

I'm pro-choice because the bodily autonomy of an existing person outweighs the needs of a potential future person.

I'm anti-death penalty because the Innocence Project has exonerated more than 2% of the people on Death Row -- proved, with DNA, they didn't do what they were convicted of. There's so many cases where there's no biological evidence, or it wasn't maintained well enough to be suitable for testing all these years later, that I'm thinking it's probable there's more innocent people still awaiting execution, but desperately hoping evidence will come available at some future time.

Yeah I understand your point. I'm personally pro life in that I would advise a woman not to have an abortion but politically I tend to support more pro choice candidtes which is more conicedental since I tend to agree with them on a broader scheme of issues. You're anti DP for the same reason I am though. It seems like every day when I read the paper I read about someone being exonarated due to faulty evidence. Just makes one thing about how many were wrongly convicted before the advent of DNA techonlogy in the late 80's.

712 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:48:00pm

I've got to get to bed. Goodnight, all.

713 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:49:27pm

re: #706 HappyWarrior

I am not too familiar with teh story. The father was the one who raped her, yes? And they did excommunicate the doctor for doing the procedure. Agree with everything you say here. I lost a ton of respect for the church after learning about this. The abuse scandals of course have played a big role too and people like Bill Donahue always playing the persecutiong card.

It was a really ugly story.

714 stevemcg  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:49:39pm

re: #707 yasharki

Oh brother. The most basic of any society's laws are an expression of its moral values. Did they have a few extra laws, like don't fuck with the Pharoah? Sure, but the overwhelming majority of the laws of any society are based on common moral values, like don't rip me off, don't go around beating people up.

715 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:51:24pm

re: #707 yasharki

What does criminal law have to do with any of this? You're mixing law and morals again.

To answer your question: sure other civilizations had laws and had an idea of what's wrong and what's right, but it was dictated by the strongest individual or pure anarchy.

I think that is a selective reading of history.

716 yasharki  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:52:11pm

re: #709 sagehen

And yet the Chinese, the Maya, Buddhists, the Iroquois, and a gazillion other cultures managed to forbid those things without ever having heard of Moses or Jesus.

Maya practiced human sacrifice in the name of their gods, while Japanese Buddhists worshiped death hoping to be reborn in a higher cast...

717 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:52:13pm

re: #710 yasharki

Yeah, sure, it's "don't do upon other what you don't want be done to yourself", that's pretty self evident, unless you have a bigger gun...

Which is why legal codes were created.

718 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:52:20pm

re: #713 SanFranciscoZionist

It was a really ugly story.


That's awful. Poor girl.

719 stevemcg  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:53:00pm

Gotta bail, the wife's lymphedema suit sprung a leak.

720 yasharki  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:53:43pm

re: #717 SanFranciscoZionist

Which is why legal codes were created.

Right, but there isn't a law against fucking your friend's wife is there? So how do you know it's not a good thing to do?

721 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:55:29pm

re: #716 yasharki

Maya practiced human sacrifice in the name of their gods, while Japanese Buddhists worshiped death hoping to be reborn in a higher cast...

And Christians burned people at the stake for believing in the wrong branch of the Abrahamic faiths.

History is long and complicated.

That doesn't mean that there is no legal code based in the idea of divine morality outside of Torah.

722 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:56:22pm

re: #719 stevemcg

Gotta bail, the wife's lymphedema suit sprung a leak.

Good luck with that. I don't even really know what that implies. Are you going to patch her, or run to the ER?

723 Stanghazi  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:56:37pm

re: #688 sagehen

And yet Bill Clinton is the only president in our lifetimes who's done it. Who's even tried. Where was all the conservative appreciation?

They were appreciating his blow job instead.

724 yasharki  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:57:59pm

re: #715 SanFranciscoZionist

I think that is a selective reading of history.

Please expand on your argument.

725 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:58:00pm

re: #720 yasharki

Right, but there isn't a law against fucking your friend's wife is there? So how do you know it's not a good thing to do?

That's where moral codes and social taboos--also developed by societies worldwide--come in.

They also vary. In Sparta, IIRC, knocking up your friend's wife if he were at war, and she fertile, was seen as a highly moral thing to do.

726 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 11:00:20pm

re: #724 yasharki

Please expand on your argument.

Lets go with the Greeks. They believed that law and morality were sacred to their gods, and they created a society that reflected that belief. Their literature is full of warnings of what happens if you violate the accepted mores of their culture. Would you say that isn't the case?

727 yasharki  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 11:01:05pm

re: #721 SanFranciscoZionist

And Christians burned people at the stake for believing in the wrong branch of the Abrahamic faiths.

History is long and complicated.

That doesn't mean that there is no legal code based in the idea of divine morality outside of Torah.

Sure, Romans and Greeks had a very good code of laws while being pagans, I'm not disputing the fact. All I'm trying to say is that we cannot deny that our modern day morals are based on religious teachings among other things, we cannot just write it off as common sense.

728 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 11:03:14pm

re: #727 yasharki

Sure, Romans and Greeks had a very good code of laws while being pagans, I'm not disputing the fact. All I'm trying to say is that we cannot deny that our modern day morals are based on religious teachings among other things, we cannot just write it off as common sense.

Sure, but we can also say that we don't hold religious beliefs, while still thinking that the morality of our society is a good thing.

729 yasharki  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 11:03:28pm

re: #726 SanFranciscoZionist

Lets go with the Greeks. They believed that law and morality were sacred to their gods, and they created a society that reflected that belief. Their literature is full of warnings of what happens if you violate the accepted mores of their culture. Would you say that isn't the case?

So, badabing, you just proved my point, they based their moral code on Gods law :)

730 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 11:04:59pm

re: #727 yasharki

Sure, Romans and Greeks had a very good code of laws while being pagans, I'm not disputing the fact. All I'm trying to say is that we cannot deny that our modern day morals are based on religious teachings among other things, we cannot just write it off as common sense.

And hey, the Romans get off for slavery, torture, gladiatorial games, worldwide conquest, and wives and children being the legal property of the man of the house, and hey have a good code of laws, while the Maya are criticized for human sacrifice?

731 TedStriker  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 11:05:00pm

re: #633 Gus 802

Anyone that thinks Al Franken "stole the election" should get fitted for a tin foil hat.

Full stop.

In fact, Franken is much more involved in the policymaking process than Coleman ever was...the major stick up the asses of many on the right about Franken is that he has a (D) after his name and had a career as a comedian/actor before politics (never mind that he's been involved in politics in one way or another for decades).

To that, I say: so fucking what...as long as he's doing the job that his constituents have put him in Congress to do and does it right, so be it. I may not have cared for Franken's brand of humor, but if he's half the policy wonk he's been told to be, that's the kind of person I want on Capital Hill.

732 yasharki  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 11:06:08pm

re: #728 SanFranciscoZionist

Sure, but we can also say that we don't hold religious beliefs, while still thinking that the morality of our society is a good thing.

Absolutely! I never disputed this.

733 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 11:06:30pm

re: #729 yasharki

So, badabing, you just proved my point, they based their moral code on Gods law :)

Badabing, I didn't realize that was your point. Up to this point, you appeared to be arguing that Torah was the sole revelation of moral law. If any culture is allowed to have a revelation from their own deities, that's rather different.

734 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 11:07:01pm

re: #732 yasharki

Absolutely! I never disputed this.

I've missed a couple of turns somewhere.

735 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 11:13:23pm

And now I'm going to bed.

736 yasharki  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 11:13:29pm

re: #730 SanFranciscoZionist

And hey, the Romans get off for slavery, torture, gladiatorial games, worldwide conquest, and wives and children being the legal property of the man of the house, and hey have a good code of laws, while the Maya are criticized for human sacrifice?

You forgot to mention Christians, they've annihilated majority of peoples of both Americas, all the while carrying the cross. What's interesting is how no-one ever mentions this fact during "islamaphobic" debates. Sure Muslims enslaved and killed a shitload of people, but it's a drop in the ocean compared to what Europeans have done...

737 TedStriker  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 11:13:43pm

re: #735 SanFranciscoZionist

And now I'm going to bed.

Good night...

738 yasharki  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 11:14:45pm

re: #735 SanFranciscoZionist

And now I'm going to bed.

Night

739 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 11:43:33pm

NPR gives Juan Williams the bigfoot.

Williams responded: "Look, Bill, I'm not a bigot. You know the kind of books I've written about the civil rights movement in this country. But when I get on the plane, I got to tell you, if I see people who are in Muslim garb and I think, you know, they are identifying themselves first and foremost as Muslims, I get worried. I get nervous."

740 ClaudeMonet  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 11:46:38pm

re: #686 yasharki

I beg to differ, humanity did need Moses to bring down the 10 Commandments to tell us what's good and what's bad. Sure I was taught the same morals by my parents and teachers who were atheists (think soviet russia in the 70s). But they didn't just wake up one day and realized what's good and what's bad, these morals were passed through generations for thousands of years, and it just happens that they are based on the Torah. You saying it's a coincidence?

Imagine someone growing up on their own without anyone teaching him/her any morals, would he/she not steal/murder/lie/etc.?

The Torah codified basic ethical precepts that were developed long before (albeit not in such detail). IMO much of the Torah is based on long-extant ideas about ethical conduct, not the vice versa you claim.

741 Stanghazi  Wed, Oct 20, 2010 11:53:29pm

re: #739 goddamnedfrank

NPR gives Juan Williams the bigfoot.

Williams responded: "Look, Bill, I'm not a bigot. You know the kind of books I've written about the civil rights movement in this country. But when I get on the plane, I got to tell you, if I see people who are in Muslim garb and I think, you know, they are identifying themselves first and foremost as Muslims, I get worried. I get nervous."
[Video]

Just saw that. I really liked Juan Williams' view when he used to talk about the black viewpoint on NPR.

Then he got that Fox contract and became, uh ? Whacked out? It never set well with me, remembering how he used to be.

742 Winny Spencer  Thu, Oct 21, 2010 12:42:03am

Uh oh, the Shrieking Harpy is less than pleased with Christine O'Donnell throwing her under the bus:

From her abominable blog:
"UPDATE: Christine O'Donnell has caved to Salon. No, this is not satire. She actually removed my endorsement from her endorsement page. That took, what? Five minutes? Unbelievable, caving to the crazies at Salon whose currency is destroying voices of reason. It is a pity that a "maverick" and "outsider" would lack any spine and exhibit such incredible political cowardice. ENDORSEMENT WITHDRAWN. It's a shame that this is the quality of people we have representing us against the Obama machine. How can we win?"

ENDORSEMENT WITHDRAWN! Wow.

743 freetoken  Thu, Oct 21, 2010 12:42:30am
744 freetoken  Thu, Oct 21, 2010 12:45:04am

re: #742 Winny Spencer

Easy come, easy go.

745 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Oct 21, 2010 1:01:00am

re: #670 stevemcg

It was a pretty simple point. I'm surprised you couldn't get it. You didin't need Moses to bring down the 10 Commandments to tell you what you should and shouldn't do. Hence, my analogy to the chicken and the egg.

We don't know what the people listed as good or bad before Moses. The big thing about that is that they were written down at that point and formed the basis of a tradition that has lasted over centuries and millenia.

The Laws of Moses also represented a change in which the Jewish people were living: nomadic tribesmen work with a different code of laws in a community where everybody knows everyone else and most property is held communally.

Just like the fact that copyright and intellectual property laws are not needed in an illiterate society.

Religion teaches us that there are certain fundamental truths that do not change, but jurisprudence teaches us that the laws governing human interaction must change with the circumstances of our interaction.

Which is the problem I have with Sharia law or Christian fundamentalist teaching: they still want us to by laws and rules that applied to tribal goatherders in the middle East.

746 freetoken  Thu, Oct 21, 2010 1:47:41am
747 harlequinade  Thu, Oct 21, 2010 3:22:50am

Going back to the OT, I lived in Germany of years, one of them in Berlin. And if you want to travel - Berlin. Damn. There's a city. East/West and the glass and steel new construction through what used to be no-man's land. If I could live there and commute to any job in the world - there's where I'd be.

AAAANNYYYway. I had a German girlfriend, and I shared with her the American advert for, I believe, Beck's beer. There was a terrible German stand-up comedian doing a gag, I was told, about light bulbs. "Thank you, I'll be here all the week." Or, as I know say "Sank Ewe. I'll be ere all da veek"

She fell about, and thought it was the funniest thing she'd heard, given the German stereotype. She loved it so much that the next time she was with her German friends, she told them.

To which they replied, with straight faces, "I don't see why that is funny. I know many Germans with good senses of humour. What are they trying to say with that advert?"

Aslo - re: #243 imp_62

The Dutch, British and Germans have miserable reputations as tourists. One of these groups regularly ranks ahead of Americans in "ugly tourist" polls. Ask the Spanish how they feel about the summer beach season.

re: #250 SanFranciscoZionist

Brits can't help it. They're irresistably attracted to sun. And Spain is so close...so very close...and you can get chips...

This is the reason, when in Europe, I try and live in places that other Brits don't go.

748 jordash1212  Thu, Oct 21, 2010 7:56:38am

Anyone else find the YouTube comments especially funny? I like the arguments about who is more humble for being more humble for pointing out that someone is trying too hard to be self-deprecating.

In any event, the rest of the world seems to keep importing our strange culture:

Image: 1zmi5ug.jpg
(includes expletives)


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