Video: New Details on the Last Minutes of Osama Bin Laden

Congrats to Reine, and thank you to Charles. It's good to see the detail of just how tough and how good America's warriors truly are. Al Qaeda doesn't have a chance!

Charles Johnson Thu, May 5, 2011 5:39:38pm

Were those two girls bin Laden's daughters?

What, me worry? Thu, May 5, 2011 5:40:37pm

re: #6 Charles

Were those two girls bin Laden's daughters?

I think so.

Vicious Michigan Union Thug Thu, May 5, 2011 5:40:47pm

All I get is the spinning rainbow icon, after the commercial. :(

Obdicut Thu, May 5, 2011 5:42:30pm

I'll admit, the peering-over bit cracked me up.

"Hey what oh hell"

Kragar Thu, May 5, 2011 5:44:09pm

re: #9 Obdicut

I'll admit, the peering-over bit cracked me up.

"Hey what oh hell"

"YOU KIDS BE QUIET DO- OH SHIT!"

Dark_Falcon Thu, May 5, 2011 5:44:36pm

re: #6 Charles

Were those two girls bin Laden's daughters?

Likely. Bin Laden had multiple wives, and some of them were much younger than he. Its entirely possible he fathered more children after 9/11.

What, me worry? Thu, May 5, 2011 5:46:16pm

They also shot his wife in the leg and they could have easily killed her.

I think they did an amazing job that could have very well ended in their deaths and I guarantee they wouldn't have been treated with the same courtesies.

His children were reported being there from the start, no? Even tho the details have been sketchy. So it would seem completely plausible to take them away from gun fire.

Anyway, if all true, I couldn't be prouder.

Obdicut Thu, May 5, 2011 5:46:52pm

re: #4 windsagio

Actually British and Israeli commandos can give us a run for our money. But we have much larger special forces than they do.

But the British SAS are badass.

Youtube Video

Killgore Trout Thu, May 5, 2011 5:47:58pm

re: #3 Charles

I hope the 'two little girls' story doesn't turn out to be 'fog of war' stuff too.

Maybe but I think there are going to be some more obvious revisions to come. Bin Laden and sons surely heard the initial firefight outside and didn't arm themselves. In this new account Bin Laden saw them coming up the stairs. He had a gun in the room and didn't pick it up. I think it's pretty clear this was a kill mission and not a capture mission. My guess the orders were to shoot on sight.

windsagio Thu, May 5, 2011 5:48:22pm

re: #13 Obdicut

Point taken :D

Its easy to forget about the people we simply never fight >>

PhillyPretzel Thu, May 5, 2011 5:48:56pm

I wonder when we are going to get a hint of what was on the computers.

prairiefire Thu, May 5, 2011 5:50:28pm

Stuff happens just like in "Patriot Games". Our guys and gals are so frickin awesome, I get verklempt thinking about them.

PhillyPretzel Thu, May 5, 2011 5:51:45pm

I know I have said it before in previous threads; G-d bless our men and women in the Armed Forces.

Kragar Thu, May 5, 2011 5:53:01pm

re: #16 PhillyPretzel

I wonder when we are going to get a hint of what was on the computers.

Probably the next time we bag a few more of them.

avanti Thu, May 5, 2011 5:53:54pm

re: #16 PhillyPretzel

I wonder when we are going to get a hint of what was on the computers.

We did get some early info on train attacks for the 9-11 anniversary, but not much had been laid out.

What, me worry? Thu, May 5, 2011 5:54:05pm

re: #14 Killgore Trout

Maybe but I think there are going to be some more obvious revisions to come. Bin Laden and sons surely heard the initial firefight outside and didn't arm themselves. In this new account Bin Laden saw them coming up the stairs. He had a gun in the room and didn't pick it up. I think it's pretty clear this was a kill mission and not a capture mission. My guess the orders were to shoot on sight.

There was like a $25 million bounty on his head? Yea, KOS as they say heh

This was really a surprise operation and I think that's exactly what happened. They caught them by surprise. Look at the stealth helicopters. It's just amazing stuff to me.

Simply Sarah Thu, May 5, 2011 5:54:25pm

re: #14 Killgore Trout

Maybe but I think there are going to be some more obvious revisions to come. Bin Laden and sons surely heard the initial firefight outside and didn't arm themselves. In this new account Bin Laden saw them coming up the stairs. He had a gun in the room and didn't pick it up. I think it's pretty clear this was a kill mission and not a capture mission. My guess the orders were to shoot on sight.

At the risk of sounding a bit wishy-washy, I really hope that's not true. I mean, I'm not exactly sad that Bin Laden is dead, but I can't help but think that capturing him alive would have been a better option if possible (Would it have been hard to get him to talk? Most probably. But who knows what we could have gotten out of him). And a picture of him in a jumpsuit *would* be a photo they could plaster all over the place as a message.

Personally, I'd have rather watched him rot in jail, since that basically would remove any chance of him being seen as a martyr.

I'm more inclined to think (Or may naively hope) that it was mostly just a case that the SEALs didn't want to take any chances and, well, that tended to lean heavily towards elimination of the target, especially after plans had to change due to the chopper going down.

Obdicut Thu, May 5, 2011 5:55:57pm

re: #22 Simply Sarah

There have been a lot of martyrs in jail cells.

I don't know the truth of it, whether they were not seeking any capture at all.

windsagio Thu, May 5, 2011 5:55:58pm

re: #22 Simply Sarah

the problem is, even tho' we do it a lot right now, there are still a huge number of legal and ethical problems of holding someone without trial, even non-citizens, and he's a guy we REALLY don't wanna give a public trial.

albusteve Thu, May 5, 2011 5:56:05pm

claymation? or real humans?
we will never know, there is no proof

windsagio Thu, May 5, 2011 5:56:54pm

re: #25 albusteve

+ for claymation, which is awesome.

And Obdi, I kind of think if he'd gone out of his way to surrender they might not have shot him. Of course we'll really never know for SURE what happened in there.

albusteve Thu, May 5, 2011 5:57:48pm

re: #26 windsagio

+ for claymation, which is awesome.

And Obdi, I kind of think if he'd gone out of his way to surrender they might not have shot him. Of course we'll really never know for SURE what happened in there.

the second he ducked at the stairs he was a dead man...the way it has to be

allegro Thu, May 5, 2011 5:58:10pm

re: #22 Simply Sarah

At the risk of sounding a bit wishy-washy, I really hope that's not true. I mean, I'm not exactly sad that Bin Laden is dead, but I can't help but think that capturing him alive would have been a better option if possible

I think it would have been a nightmare situation that we are very much better off without. It would have been drawn out for months or years. I can't even imagine a trial that would put bin Laden on an internationally staged soap box.

Just... yikes.

albusteve Thu, May 5, 2011 5:59:20pm

re: #23 Obdicut

There have been a lot of martyrs in jail cells.

I don't know the truth of it, whether they were not seeking any capture at all.

if they wanted to, they could have captured him, harder and more risk, but it could be done

Simply Sarah Thu, May 5, 2011 5:59:59pm

re: #23 Obdicut

There have been a lot of martyrs in jail cells.

I don't know the truth of it, whether they were not seeking any capture at all.

Well, it's very clear that they went in with killing him being the expected outcome (Which is entirely understandable). It's mostly just a case of whether it was officially a kill-only mission or if it was just realistically one. Mostly, I don't like the way the video presents it, since it comes off as a bit cold blooded for my tastes (Yes, I know the reality of military action often means this sort of thing happens. Just doesn't mean I'm totally comfortable with it).

Charles Johnson Thu, May 5, 2011 6:01:17pm

I don't think it was necessarily a kill mission, but when the most wanted man doesn't immediately raise his arms and surrender, but instead runs back into a room and sends two kids out, the SEALs absolutely did the right thing.

albusteve Thu, May 5, 2011 6:02:10pm

it cannot be kill or capture....how could everyone be on the same page?....that would put Seals at risk making choices....it's one or the other...if they needed to take him alive they would have gassed the place

Etaoin Shrdlu Thu, May 5, 2011 6:02:28pm

re: #16 PhillyPretzel

I wonder when we are going to get a hint of what was on the computers.

We (the US) might not, if bin Laden was careful with his encryption, and we (the public) will not, because that would reveal something about what the US can break.

TedStriker Thu, May 5, 2011 6:03:02pm

re: #28 allegro

I think it would have been a nightmare situation that we are very much better off without. It would have been drawn out for months or years. I can't even imagine a trial that would put bin Laden on an internationally staged soap box.

Just... yikes.

It would have been the cluster fuck that has been KSM's incarceration/trial process to the nth degree...

MarkAM Thu, May 5, 2011 6:04:32pm

Interesting. According to an NPR report I heard on All Things Considered this evening, the helicopter crash prevented the Seals from taking bin Laden's family, who are now being held by the Pakistanis. The report went on to say that the Pakistani government is standing in the way of an American interrogation of these family members.

If this report is true, it's very troubling. The Pakistan problem is a huge one. It has been since 2001, but no one has been willing to address it. I lay a lot of this on Bush's doorstep, having watched Musharraf's full post 9/11 address on CNN international. From that moment, it should have made clear to anyone with half a brain that he (and by extension the Pakistani establishment) was not to be trusted. At this point, I don't have a clue as to the solution, but I hope Obama does better.

Kragar Thu, May 5, 2011 6:04:48pm

When you're executing a secret raid inside an ally's territory against an enemy target who embraces suicide attacks and dying for the cause, do you really want to risk your team even a second more than you have to?

General Nimrod Bodfish Thu, May 5, 2011 6:04:57pm

I think that once the commandos saw OBL darting back up the stairs that they thought that he would grab a weapon or a suicide vest, so the best course of action to prevent their fellow commandos from being injured/killed was to kill OBL before he could act. It was either kill him or risk being killed in an explosion.

I have no problem with how it went down. And big kudos to the commandos for grabbing the young ones and getting them out of harm's way. It prevented a traumatic experience from being worse for them to get shot in the raid.

What, me worry? Thu, May 5, 2011 6:05:07pm

The truth is the Arab world has been relatively quiet since last week. But what is being said, outside of Gaza and Afghanistan, is praise for the U.S.... in a fashion. I put up a post here.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Coupled with the peaceful protesters in Egypt and Tunisia, they say the way of violence is on the way out. Killing Bin Laden represents a death to the extremism. I think it's important he's dead and at our hands, all the more better.

blueraven Thu, May 5, 2011 6:06:29pm

Santorum is making an ass of himself in the debate.

austin_blue Thu, May 5, 2011 6:06:54pm

re: #14 Killgore Trout

Maybe but I think there are going to be some more obvious revisions to come. Bin Laden and sons surely heard the initial firefight outside and didn't arm themselves. In this new account Bin Laden saw them coming up the stairs. He had a gun in the room and didn't pick it up. I think it's pretty clear this was a kill mission and not a capture mission. My guess the orders were to shoot on sight.

Agreed. The Moonbats may scream about "due process' and "he deserved a trial" and shit, but that man had ten years to walk into any police station in the entire fucking world and say "I give up".

He didn't.

So now he's chum. Good.

Political Atheist Thu, May 5, 2011 6:07:12pm

re: #37 commadore183

I have no problem with a kill raid. Predator strikes are kill raids. Snipers have kills missions. It's a military strike on a deadly enemy. Everything else is chin music.

windsagio Thu, May 5, 2011 6:07:26pm

re: #39 blueraven

Santorum is making an ass of himself in the debate.

Huge surprise to exactly zero people >>

albusteve Thu, May 5, 2011 6:07:26pm

re: #40 austin_blue

Agreed. The Moonbats may scream about "due process' and "he deserved a trial" and shit, but that man had ten years to walk into any police station in the entire fucking world and say "I give up".

He didn't.

So now he's chum. Good.

he got his 72 crabs

Achilles Tang Thu, May 5, 2011 6:07:32pm

The only time I listen to radio is in my car, and then it's usually NPR; but on a long trip like today I scan and often run into Rush although I can't listen for long.

This man must have compensated his everyday drug problem by drinking venom for breakfast.

Today he was ranting about President Obama's "victory lap" in NY, but according to the dictionary a regime is any form of government.

He uses it the way creationists use the word theory, as an insult about somebody else's government, as if the presidency is all our government is about.

Clearly that is what he would like; a king, but Republican.

austin_blue Thu, May 5, 2011 6:08:01pm

re: #23 Obdicut

There have been a lot of martyrs in jail cells.

I don't know the truth of it, whether they were not seeking any capture at all.

Bobby Sands.

Simply Sarah Thu, May 5, 2011 6:08:07pm

re: #31 Charles

I don't think it was necessarily a kill mission, but when the most wanted man doesn't immediately raise his arms and surrender, but instead runs back into a room and sends two kids out, the SEALs absolutely did the right thing.

Oh, I completely agree. I have no issues with how the mission turned out, nor am I surprised it ended as it did. I'd have been shocked if it went otherwise.

Mostly, I'm just finding myself rather conflicted over all this, since I'm generally very law and order and rather opposed to violence if at all possible. While I know I'm being overly idealistic about capturing him, my natural tendencies tend to favor that having been the outcome, even knowing it wasn't realistic.

As for holding without charge...we'd have had no shortage of things to charge Bin Laden with. Things we could pretty clearly show he did without even needing to worry about tons of classified evidence. Now, bringing him to trial (Or any other type of judicial proceeding) might have been a different story, but I don't think any reasonable person could question grounds to hold him.

TedStriker Thu, May 5, 2011 6:08:10pm

re: #39 blueraven

Santorum is making an ass of himself in the debate.

How's this different from any other day?

;-P

austin_blue Thu, May 5, 2011 6:10:13pm

re: #39 blueraven

Santorum is making an ass of himself in the debate.

Opus Dei makes that a simple thing to do. Fanatics are fanatics. That's how they come across.

Alexzander Thu, May 5, 2011 6:10:23pm

I guess this is the unofficial debate thread? I love following this kind of thing with LGF.

Stanghazi Thu, May 5, 2011 6:11:42pm

I'm posting two really really good reads. Via my twitter feed.

First one is dude who was Osama's neighbor, a Canadian.

[Link: www.emel.com...]

The second is from Sultan Sooud Al-Qassemi (Non-resident Fellow, Dubai School of Government)

Osama Bin Laden, He had it coming

I really want my lizardos to read these.

allegro Thu, May 5, 2011 6:11:51pm

I don't think I'm going to be able to watch much more of the debate. Every time they ring that damn time bell my dogs go nuts thinking it's a doorbell or something. The fact that we don't have a doorbell is lost on them.

austin_blue Thu, May 5, 2011 6:11:55pm

re: #49 Alexzander

I guess this is the unofficial debate thread? I love following this kind of thing with LGF.

Nope, just popped up.

Stanghazi Thu, May 5, 2011 6:12:41pm

re: #43 albusteve

he got his 72 crabs

Do not buy crap in the near future. Or shrimp.

Killgore Trout Thu, May 5, 2011 6:13:05pm

re: #22 Simply Sarah

I think there are a lot of legal obstacles to putting him on trial. As We've seen with KSM this gets complicated and with a target as important as Bin Laden a trial might have been seen as too risky. Much of the evidence that lead up to the raid might not be admissible or Obama wouldn't want to publicly acknowledge using it for political reasons. Although Obama is still using blacksites to hold detainees he really doesn't want to draw attention to it with someone as high profile as Bin Laden. Holding bin Laden for years without trial for interrogation would cause more bad publicity than just killing him outright.

windsagio Thu, May 5, 2011 6:13:08pm

re: #53 Stanley Sea

I wouldn't buy crap either. Unless I had a garden :p

Stanghazi Thu, May 5, 2011 6:14:59pm

re: #53 Stanley Sea

Do not buy crap in the near future. Or shrimp.

crab. Crap you can buy, at Walmart.

Simply Sarah Thu, May 5, 2011 6:15:54pm

re: #54 Killgore Trout

I think there are a lot of legal obstacles to putting him on trial. As We've seen with KSM this gets complicated and with a target as important as Bin Laden a trial might have been seen as too risky. Much of the evidence that lead up to the raid might not be admissible or Obama wouldn't want to publicly acknowledge using it for political reasons. Although Obama is still using blacksites to hold detainees he really doesn't want to draw attention to it with someone as high profile as Bin Laden. Holding bin Laden for years without trial for interrogation would cause more bad publicity than just killing him outright.

I have to admit, this is probably the truth. And I'm perfectly happy to admit that. I may be idealistic, but that doesn't mean I'm going to ignore reality.

What, me worry? Thu, May 5, 2011 6:16:20pm

re: #44 Naso Tang

The only time I listen to radio is in my car, and then it's usually NPR; but on a long trip like today I scan and often run into Rush although I can't listen for long.

This man must have compensated his everyday drug problem by drinking venom for breakfast.

Today he was ranting about President Obama's "victory lap" in NY, but according to the dictionary a regime is any form of government.

He uses it the way creationists use the word theory, as an insult about somebody else's government, as if the presidency is all our government is about.

Clearly that is what he would like; a king, but Republican.

I heard a video where he came out in praise of Obama?

That Rush. He so fickle.

Max Thu, May 5, 2011 6:17:22pm

Tim Pawlenty is the only serious candidate up there. We've also got a shock jock, a religious fanatic, and two libertarians with a fetish for nineteenth century banking. It's a circus.

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, May 5, 2011 6:23:05pm

re: #3 Charles

I hope the 'two little girls' story doesn't turn out to be 'fog of war' stuff too.

Me too. It's lovely.

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, May 5, 2011 6:27:04pm

re: #40 austin_blue

Agreed. The Moonbats may scream about "due process' and "he deserved a trial" and shit, but that man had ten years to walk into any police station in the entire fucking world and say "I give up".

He didn't.

So now he's chum. Good.

I'm having a sudden, insane vision, of Bin Laden surrendering at the Point Reyes Police Station in Marin County.

prairiefire Thu, May 5, 2011 6:31:49pm

re: #49 Alexzander

I guess this is the unofficial debate thread? I love following this kind of thing with LGF.

Check out the next thread.

Achilles Tang Thu, May 5, 2011 6:33:41pm

re: #29 albusteve

if they wanted to, they could have captured him, harder and more risk, but it could be done

Of course they could have captured him, short of him committing suicide.

The order was to kill him, and any associates. Exactly what any half responsible Republican president would have ordered.

Only the left loons are claiming they wanted a show trial at a cost of tens or hundreds of millions that would put the OJ trial to shame (and the same bunch of lawyers would have lined up to do the defense).

avanti Thu, May 5, 2011 6:50:23pm

The White House "Insider" just went from fiction, to fantasy.

"The operation was at this time effectively unknown to President Barack Obama or Valerie Jarrett and it remained that way until AFTER it had already been initiated. President Obama was literally pulled from a golf outing and escorted back to the White House to be informed of the mission. Upon his arrival there was a briefing held which included Bill Daley, John Brennan, and a high ranking member of the military. When Obama emerged from the briefing, he was described as looking “very confused and uncertain.” The president was then placed in the situation room where several of the players in this event had already been watching the operation unfold. "

TedStriker Thu, May 5, 2011 6:55:29pm

re: #63 Naso Tang

Of course they could have captured him, short of him committing suicide.

The order was to kill him, and any associates. Exactly what any half responsible Republican president would have ordered.

Only the left loons are claiming they wanted a show trial at a cost of tens or hundreds of millions that would put the OJ trial to shame (and the same bunch of lawyers would have lined up to do the defense).

Worse...you know Ramsey Clark would have been at the head of the line to represent OBL.

*spit*

reine.de.tout Thu, May 5, 2011 7:04:07pm

I should have stuck around!
Thanks for the h/t Charles.

samgak Thu, May 5, 2011 7:18:41pm

How many revisions are we up to now? I'll start taking these ever-changing accounts of what happened seriously once they've settled down some more.

S.D. Thu, May 5, 2011 8:08:14pm

I don't really have a problem with that sequence of events. While I don't normally feel glad about ANYONE'S death, I find I have no problem with this.

Our Precious Bodily Fluids Thu, May 5, 2011 9:20:04pm

I'm not at all suggesting a conspiracy theory, but the video in the OP is 99.9934% likely to be complete horse shit. It will be quite some time (optimistically months, more likely years) before we have a halfway reliable picture of What Really Happened.

Idle Drifter Thu, May 5, 2011 10:08:57pm

Late two cents.

Osama bin Laden is dead. Some people are barking about how we should have put him on trail, that his assassination was outside designated war zones, and that terrorism is a police issue or whatever. They can bark all they want. I couldn't care less.

Killing Bin Laden won't bring the dead back to life. No amount of justice could bring closure either. It means he can't hurt another person ever again and that's enough for me.

The Optimist Fri, May 6, 2011 5:47:38am

Did the Seals have muzzle silencers on their guns? This could have made a huge difference in the reaction of Bin Laden and his scumbag colleagues. Bin Laden would not have realized shots were being fired or that he was under attack. In any event, job well done.

Obdicut Fri, May 6, 2011 5:55:45am

re: #71 Venezuela lover

Man, second-guessing SEALs. Amazing.

The Optimist Fri, May 6, 2011 6:52:52am

Late Thursday, two Pakistani officials cited bin Laden's wives and children as saying he and his associates had not offered any "significant resistance" when the American commandos entered the compound, in part because the assailants had thrown "stun bombs" that disorientated them.

Seals=assailants?? WTF?

Maybe Stun grenades were thrown. I wonder if my friend and mentor Obdicut would consider that possibilty.

Obdicut Fri, May 6, 2011 6:58:07am

re: #73 Venezuela lover

I'm not your friend, or your mentor. I don't think much of you.

Given that the SEALs were fired upon themselves, and expected to be fired upon, silencers wouldn't have done jack shit to conceal the SEALs presence. In addition, a silenced weapon is much louder than on TV. The bullets, unless they're subsonic (and therefore much less powerful) still break the sound barrier. Suppression of weapons is mostly about not being able to identify the position they're fired from.

leftynyc Fri, May 6, 2011 7:47:18am

re: #40 austin_blue

Agreed. The Moonbats may scream about "due process' and "he deserved a trial" and shit, but that man had ten years to walk into any police station in the entire fucking world and say "I give up".

He didn't.

So now he's chum. Good.

Actually the only two people I've seen on TV saying he deserved a trial were Shep Smith and Judge Napalitano. I wouldn't call either one of them moonbats.

JRCMYP Fri, May 6, 2011 7:55:31am

I understand now where the whole "women as a human shield" came from.

The shooting must have been over within minutes. The rest of the time spent retrieving intelligence and blowing up the damaged helicopter.

Martinsmithy Fri, May 6, 2011 8:51:11am

You know, all of this really doesn't matter except as symbolism. There is a sense of justice that Bin Laden is dead - actually a sense of unbounded joy, which I share.

But I don't think Bin Laden has been running Al Qaeda for many years now. The terrorist organization isn't going to go away with his death, just as it wasn't going to go away while he was still alive. We still need to be on our guard, and there will be need for just as many international military and police actions such as our Navy Seals performed as there were before Bin Laden's death.

Obdicut Fri, May 6, 2011 8:56:53am

re: #77 Martinsmithy

We got a lot of intel.

Mattand Fri, May 6, 2011 10:22:11am

re: #75 leftynyc

Actually the only two people I've seen on TV saying he deserved a trial were Shep Smith and Judge Napalitano. I wouldn't call either one of them moonbats.

I know it's cynical, but I always get the impression that Shep Smith is Fox's fake contrarian guy; part of his job is to go off-message so Fox can say, "Hey, see, we have people who don't tow the conservative line!"

The Optimist Mon, May 9, 2011 7:37:17am

re: #74 Obdicut

Given that the SEALs were fired upon themselves, and expected to be fired upon, silencers wouldn't have done jack shit to conceal the SEALs presence. In addition, a silenced weapon is much louder than on TV. The bullets, unless they're subsonic (and therefore much less powerful) still break the sound barrier. Suppression of weapons is mostly about not being able to identify the position they're fired from.

We may never know, for good reasons, the operational details of the Bin Laden take down. It was quick, efficient, and precise. Navy Seals forever have my respect and gratitude.

Supersonic bullets can create a sonic boom that is usually said to be a "crack" This crack will not locate the shooter. The explosion from the barrel locates the shooter. In a closed room, the bang of a gun is so loud that shooter location is mostly undetectable via sound.

Obdicut, what is your military training? service branch, years, campaigns, rank, Annapolis?, plus whatever else you can add.

Spy Mode Auto

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