The Arc of a Bogus Right Wing Outrage

The right wing blogs and media have devolved into pathetic shills, unconcerned about integrity
Wingnuts • Views: 30,032

It’s amazing how quickly these bogus outrages propagate in the right wing media and blogosphere these days: Timeline Of A Right-Wing Media Smear: Hoffa’s Call To Vote Became ‘A Call For Violence’.

Starting with Fox News’s doctored videos, the story quickly spread throughout the online wingnut community. And not a single one of these bloggers or pundits or “news sites” took any notice of the blatant, in-yer-face editing, or bothered to Google up an unedited video (which wasn’t hard), before enthusiastically parroting a completely false Fox News-induced right wing talking point.

Bad craziness, my friends.

Does anyone still remember when blogs were supposed to be about *cough* … fact-checking? Or are all of these bloggers now just devoted to blind, bovine shilling for bankrupt political ideologies?

Dana Loesch: Hoffa Issued A “Call Of Violence Against Americans.” Minutes after the doctored video of Hoffa’s speech aired on Fox News, CNN contributor and editor of Andrew Breitbart’s Big Journalism site Dana Loesch characterized Hoffa’s comments as “the call of violence against Americans by union thugs.” [Media Matters, 9/5/11]

Real Clear Politics Used Doctored Fox Video To Claim: “Hoffa Threatens GOP At Obama Event.” The website Real Clear Politics posted Fox’s doctored video of Hoffa’s comments with the headline: “Hoffa Threatens GOP At Obama Event: ‘Take These Son Of Bitches Out’.” [RealClearPolitics, 9/5/11]

Drudge Report Linked To Doctored Fox Video. The Drudge Report later added a link to its initial headline, which directed readers to the Real Clear Politics post that included Fox’s doctored video. [Drudge Report, 9/5/11]

Big Government Posted Altered Video, Criticized Obama. At 11:08 a.m. (presumably Pacific Time as Breitbart sites are based in Los Angeles), Big Government posted the edited Fox News video under the headline: “Obama Declares He’s ‘Proud’ of Hoffa — After Hoffa Declares ‘War’ on Tea Party ‘Sons-Of-Bitches’.” [Big Government, 9/5/11]

Big Journalism Posted Doctored Video, Claimed Hoffa “Threatens Tea Party.” At 11:09 a.m. PT, Big Journalism also posted the doctored Fox News video with the headline: “Union Boss Intros Obama in Detroit, Threatens Tea Party ‘Let’s Take These Sons of Bitches Out’.” [Big Journalism, 9/5/11]

Fox News then Showed Video Of Hoffa Urging People To Vote. At approximately 3 p.m. ET — after the edited Fox News video had been promoted by right-wing blogs — Fox News finally aired Hoffa’s comments urging people to vote. The full context verified what Henry had reported via Twitter hours earlier — that Hoffa was simply emphasizing the need to vote:

HOFFA: Everybody here’s got to vote. If we go back and we keep the eye on the prize, let’s take these son of a bitches out and give America back to America where we belong! Thank you very much! [Fox News, Fox Report, 9/5/11]

Hot Air Also Used Doctored Video Of Hoffa. Hot Air blogger Allahpundit posted the doctored Fox video of Hoffa’s speech and wrote that Hoffa was “threatening his political enemies while a union-stooge Democratic leader sits by and smiles.” [Hot Air, 9/5/11]

Gateway Pundit Used Doctored Hoffa Speech. Right-wing blogger Jim Hoft posted Fox News’ edited video and wrote: “Jimmy Hoffa took his attacks on the tea party to a whole new level today during his Labor Day speech.” [Gateway Pundit, 9/5/11]

The Five Doctored Speech And Said Hoffa “Essentially Declared War On The Tea Party.” At 5 p.m. ET — two hours after Fox News aired Hoffa’s full statement urging people to vote — Fox News’ The Five again broadcast a clearly edited video of Hoffa’s speech that did not include his comment that “everybody here’s got to vote.” Co-host Kimberly Guilfoyle said that Hoffa “essentially declared war on the Tea Party.” [Fox News, The Five, 9/5/11]

Fox’s Palin Called Hoffa’s Speech “Thuggery.” In a Facebook message posted at 2:50 a.m. on September 6, Fox News contributor Sarah Palin urged union members to not be “taken in by union bosses’ thuggery like Jim Hoffa represented yesterday.” [Facebook, 9/6/11]

Glenn Beck Claimed Hoffa Was “Inciting Violence” During Speech. Glenn Beck aired a doctored audio version of Hoffa’s speech but left out his call to vote out Republicans and forwarded the fabrication that Hoffa was “inciting violence” against conservatives. [Premiere Radio Networks, The Glenn Beck Program, 9/6/11]

RedState: Hoffa “All But Called For” Tea Party Leaders To Be Killed. Citing the doctored Fox News video posted by Real Clear Politics, a RedState blogger wrote that “on Labor Day, James Hoffa all but called for the leadership of The Tea Party Movement to take a nice, refreshing dirt nap in The Meadowlands End Zone.” [RedState, 9/6/11]

And at the bottom, as always, Rush Limbaugh.

Rush Limbaugh On Hoffa’s Speech: “That’s A Call For Violence, Folks.” After playing a doctored clip of Hoffa’s speech, Rush Limbaugh said: “That’s a declaration of war. I mean, that is a come on to violence. That’s a call for violence, folks. From Don Hoffa to Barack Obama.” [Premiere Radio Networks, The Rush Limbaugh Show, 9/6/11]

Read the whole thing…

Jump to bottom

593 comments
1 bratwurst  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:05:21pm

The right wing froth machine is pushing this meme HARD today...the last time I saw this blatant an effort to manufacture outrage out of whole cloth was the infamous "lipstick on a pig" incident almost exactly 3 years ago.

2 BongCrodny  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:05:21pm

Honesty is an merely unimportant byproduct of their holy war.

3 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:06:46pm

Good. I'm glad their stupid bully/victim feelings were hurt by Jimmy Hoffa. Screw them.

4 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:09:34pm

Noticeably absent: ABC's Jake Trapper wasted time at a White House Briefing today...
White House Refuses to Condemn Hoffa Vitriol, Calls It 'Kabuki Theatre'
Again Fox distorts the clip. Trapper was the first to introduce the Kabuki meme.
I think also LA Times and CNN also ran with the bogus Fox spin as well.

5 jamesfirecat  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:09:55pm

"Rush Limbaugh On Hoffa’s Speech: “That’s A Call For Violence, Folks.” After playing a doctored clip of Hoffa’s speech, Rush Limbaugh said: “That’s a declaration of war. I mean, that is a come on to violence. That’s a call for violence, folks. From Don Hoffa to Barack Obama.”

No it's a call for violence from Don Hoffa to his Union thugs! Wow, Rush can't even get his meteaphores right even if Hoffa really did say what he think he said, he still isn't right, that's an impressive level of fail people!

6 jaunte  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:10:26pm
‘Let’s Take These Sons of Bitches Out’.

"He says he knows Mother!"

7 elizajane  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:12:22pm

Unless right-wing bloggers have no exposure to any media outside of Fox, they all know perfectly well that they are peddling a lie. The real quotation has had ample airing, at such fringe lefty places as the Washington Post.
The Right Wing messaging machine is awesome to behold, in the old sense of "awesome" as inspiring terror and dread.

Keep 'em outraged! It's the only way you can win elections when you have absolutely no policies that serve the interests of 95% of the electorate.

8 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:12:38pm

Anybody who is reasonably intelligent, has been paying attention, and is still an active advocate for the GOP, is already quite comfortable with the darker side of propaganda.

That these people are universally espousing a version of events that they no doubt know to be false shouldn't surprise anyone. This is standard operating procedure for fascist political parties, of which the GOP is only the most recent example.

This isn't anything new. Indeed, this is a very old thing indeed. It's just that most intellectually capable and honest Americans aren't quite used to it yet. Why do you think fascist political movements always attack intellectuals? (initially rhetorically, later physically) They do it because intellectuals feel obligated to point out lies and distortions, and because they are generally resistant to this kind of propaganda.

9 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:13:00pm

Little children. Frothing on their little victimhood. My FoxNewsDad is probably screaming at the TV as we type. Ugh.

10 makeitstop  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:16:22pm

You gotta wonder at this point whether the whole thing was orchestrated.

Anybody know if Hoffa's remarks were released for review prior to his taking the podium?

11 Meitantei  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:17:04pm

Maybe my memory is completely wrong, but isn't the reason this blog became famous was because it, you know, checked facts about Dan Rather? As opposed to these other places?

How sad, really.

12 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:17:12pm

re: #8 Fozzie Bear

Why do you think fascist political movements always attack intellectuals? (initially rhetorically, later physically) They do it because intellectuals feel obligated to point out lies and distortions, and because they are generally resistant to this kind of propaganda.

Jealousy, envy, self-loathing, no sense of themselves except in contrast with someone else, frightened of their own shadows, resentful of anyone who isn't, the list goes on...

13 Gus  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:18:20pm

Yes, check facts and check sources. Go beyond the headline.

[Mumbles to self.]

14 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:18:25pm

re: #8 Fozzie Bear

btw, hi bear!

15 b_sharp  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:18:31pm

re: #11 Meitantei

Maybe my memory is completely wrong, but isn't the reason this blog became famous was because it, you know, checked facts about Dan Rather? As opposed to these other places?

How sad, really.

Are you coming or going with this comment?

16 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:19:08pm

re: #11 Meitantei

Hence the rant.

17 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:19:38pm

re: #4 Killgore Trout

White House Refuses to Condemn Hoffa Vitriol ...

Good.

18 PhillyPretzel  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:19:47pm

re: #9 Stanley Sea
My FoxNewsDad is probably screaming at the TV as we type.
So is mine. :/

19 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:20:11pm

re: #16 Charles

Hence the rant.

oops

20 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:20:18pm

re: #9 Stanley Sea

Little children. Frothing on their little victimhood.

Any old excuse.

21 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:22:28pm

re: #10 makeitstop

It doesn't have to be orchestrated or organized. If you are a GOP-aligned pundit, after all that has happened lately, your goal isn't to spread knowledge, it's to disseminate gut feelings as far and wide as you possibly can.

Every one of those pundits knows a winning propaganda putsch when they see it, because that's their business. When it is discredited widely, they will attack the persons attempting to discredit this meme with accusations that they themselves espouse Hoffa's purported message of violence. When and if they are caught doing so, they will claim the mantle of the oppressed victim, say that their first amendment rights are being violated, and accuse those who expose them as frauds of being "jack booted thugs", "Obama's henchmen", and "union sympathizers".

It's not that they are following a script, because they aren't. They are applying a technique.

22 Irving  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:23:52pm

My conservative friends completely brushed off the edit as irrelevant. "So? I though Obama said we're supposed to be above this rhetoric after Giffords got shot. Where's the outrage on the Left?"

Which suddenly makes it all clear. This is all about tit-for-tat, both-sides-do-it. Fox has been looking for a solid opportunity to this for a long time... so they could (wait for it) try and restore Sarah Palin's reputation by dragging the discourse down to that level.

That, and offer so bread-and-circus to distract from any serious talk about jobs over Labor Day.

23 Kronocide  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:24:26pm

It's clear we are only at the early stages a new Era of Yellow Journalism, buoyed by Yellow Blogging.

24 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:24:35pm

re: #12 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Jealousy, envy, self-loathing, no sense of themselves except in contrast with someone else, frightened of their own shadows, resentful of anyone who isn't, the list goes on...

The joe six packs attack intellectuals because of these things. The guys feeding them their daily two minutes hate, however, don't attack intellectuals because of that. They do it because intellectuals are bad for their line of work.

Intellectuals are an inherent threat to fascism. So, they must be attacked.

25 jamesfirecat  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:25:21pm

re: #22 Irving

My conservative friends completely brushed off the edit as irrelevant. "So? I though Obama said we're supposed to be above this rhetoric after Giffords got shot. Where's the outrage on the Left?"

Which suddenly makes it all clear. This is all about tit-for-tat, both-sides-do-it. Fox has been looking for a solid opportunity to this for a long time... so they could (wait for it) try and restore Sarah Palin's reputation by dragging the discourse down to that level.

That, and offer so bread-and-circus to distract from any serious talk about jobs over Labor Day.

Tell your friends that they don't deserve after all their party has done you fail to see why Obama should be civil with them, especially when they're rooting for him to fail.

26 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:26:02pm

Actually, when I sit back and think...then read Fozzie's comment:

This isn't anything new. Indeed, this is a very old thing indeed. It's just that most intellectually capable and honest Americans aren't quite used to it yet. Why do you think fascist political movements always attack intellectuals?

I get a bit worried. And really think about the future. More than I ever have.

27 jamesfirecat  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:26:13pm

re: #23 BigPapa

It's clear we are only at the early stages a new Era of Yellow Journalism, buoyed by Yellow Blogging.

No, it can all be traced back to a Yellow Fox who gives these statements a measure of legitimacy they in no way deserve.

28 Renaissance_Man  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:26:23pm

re: #1 bratwurst

The right wing froth machine is pushing this meme HARD today...the last time I saw this blatant an effort to manufacture outrage out of whole cloth was the infamous "lipstick on a pig" incident almost exactly 3 years ago.

You forgot the 'children chanting Obama's name/Pol Pot/Hitler Youth', the 'Eric Cantor's office attacked by liberal gunman', the 'Islamic crescent in the UN nuclear summit logo', and in fact just about every single fucking story that has appeared on FOX for the past three years.

29 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:27:22pm

re: #17 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Good.

Well, not really. Why didn't they just point out that Fox edited the video? It seems kinda stupid to not point this out.

30 dragonfire1981  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:27:31pm

I agree with your rant Charles, but I think it's abundantly clear the American right wants to destroy Obama and they don't really give a crap what ethical, moral and legal lines they might have to cross to do it.

Also notice the Right Wing blogs pay not attention to what triggered Hoffa's comments in the first place (ie what started the "war"). Hint: It wasn't Democrats or Union guys.

31 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:27:56pm

Propaganda. It works.

32 Kronocide  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:28:05pm

re: #28 Renaissance_Man

You forgot the 'children chanting Obama's name/Pol Pot/Hitler Youth', the 'Eric Cantor's office attacked by liberal gunman', the 'Islamic crescent in the UN nuclear summit logo', and in fact just about every single fucking story that has appeared on FOX for the past three years.

I think the poisoned Fox meme could get picked up by more reliable reporters or networks, it seems that is happening.

The cancer is spreading.

33 jamesfirecat  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:28:44pm

re: #28 Renaissance_Man

You forgot the 'children chanting Obama's name/Pol Pot/Hitler Youth', the 'Eric Cantor's office attacked by liberal gunman', the 'Islamic crescent in the UN nuclear summit logo', and in fact just about every single fucking story that has appeared on FOX for the past three years.

Warhol Christmas Ornaments, the Birthers, Unpresidented amounts of Filibustering every single damn thing, the Islamic Crescent as part of the Nasa logo....

34 Renaissance_Man  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:29:01pm

re: #31 Stanley Sea

Propaganda. It works.

It really, really does.

It's alive and well, and here in America right now. It's altered the very fabric of society around you for thirty years. The vast majority of people you personally know are influenced by it.

And it will not end well.

35 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:29:37pm

re: #14 Stanley Sea

btw, hi bear!

Hey Stanley!

So I start a new job tomorrow with a web development firm in Orlando, after a few months of fitful nail-biting unemployment. I'm going to be using Ruby on Rails, NodeJS, and a few other technologies I am totally unfamiliar with. Should be very stressful, but fun.

Wish me luck, i'll need it.

36 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:31:52pm

re: #34 Renaissance_Man

It really, really does.

It's alive and well, and here in America right now. It's altered the very fabric of society around you for thirty years. The vast majority of people you personally know are influenced by it.

And it will not end well.

Very very scary. Really. I need a pizza and an ostrich hole. Nah, Pizza yes, I'm going to fucking OFA join up tomorrow.

37 jamesfirecat  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:32:01pm

re: #34 Renaissance_Man

It really, really does.

It's alive and well, and here in America right now. It's altered the very fabric of society around you for thirty years. The vast majority of people you personally know are influenced by it.

And it will not end well.

My only hope is that when Rupert Murdoch dies (of natural causes he's got to be like a bajillion years old!) his Media empire will end up fracturing and thus the right wing will no longer have a massive media collection all marching to the same drum, not to mention the more profitable parts of it will no longer be proping up the less profitable ones,

Though that's still only a bandiad on the fact that one of America's main media channels (the one that I seem to recall frequently like to frequently says has the best raitings) no longer cares about reporting the truth.

38 makeitstop  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:32:12pm

re: #21 Fozzie Bear

It doesn't have to be orchestrated or organized. If you are a GOP-aligned pundit, after all that has happened lately, your goal isn't to spread knowledge, it's to disseminate gut feelings as far and wide as you possibly can.

Every one of those pundits knows a winning propaganda putsch when they see it, because that's their business. When it is discredited widely, they will attack the persons attempting to discredit this meme with accusations that they themselves espouse Hoffa's purported message of violence. When and if they are caught doing so, they will claim the mantle of the oppressed victim, say that their first amendment rights are being violated, and accuse those who expose them as frauds of being "jack booted thugs", "Obama's henchmen", and "union sympathizers".

It's not that they are following a script, because they aren't. They are applying a technique.

Great post. That's a very succinct summary of every one of thee media 'outrages.'

Still, I have to wonder about the Breitbart - Fox affiliation. The combination of Breitbart-style deceptively edited video with Fox' reach and viewership is pretty frightening. They could say whatever they want and get a meme started it record time. They could do it every day if they wanted to.

39 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:32:25pm

re: #29 Killgore Trout

Well, not really. Why didn't they just point out that Fox edited the video? It seems kinda stupid to not point this out.

Hopefully, they learned the lesson from the Shirley Sherrod incident (for which I will NEVER forgive the Obama admin.) Let them show themselves to be the dishonest bigots they always show themselves to be; don't get caught up in their stupid 25/8 scream machine.

40 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:33:10pm

re: #35 Fozzie Bear

Hey Stanley!

So I start a new job tomorrow with a web development firm in Orlando, after a few months of fitful nail-biting unemployment. I'm going to be using Ruby on Rails, NodeJS, and a few other technologies I am totally unfamiliar with. Should be very stressful, but fun.

Wish me luck, i'll need it.

Luck luck luck luck. Confidence will not require it. :)

41 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:33:13pm

re: #35 Fozzie Bear

Hey Stanley!

So I start a new job tomorrow with a web development firm in Orlando, after a few months of fitful nail-biting unemployment. I'm going to be using Ruby on Rails, NodeJS, and a few other technologies I am totally unfamiliar with. Should be very stressful, but fun.

Wish me luck, i'll need it.

Best of luck to ya. I've been looking at NodeJS myself lately.

42 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:33:27pm

re: #34 Renaissance_Man

It really, really does.

It's alive and well, and here in America right now. It's altered the very fabric of society around you for thirty years. The vast majority of people you personally know are influenced by it.

And it will not end well.

It's influenced the fabric of American culture profoundly for the better part of a century. It's just that, before the last 30 years or so, it has been used to maintain cohesion, rather than foster division. The "duck and cover" videos of the 50's, Rosie the Riveter, "I'm just a bill", etc. were all propaganda.

It's just that, like any tool, propaganda has constructive applications, and destructive ones. But lets not pretend that the US hasn't been very good at producing quality propaganda for a very long time. It's for whom, and to what end, that has changed.

43 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:36:17pm

re: #38 makeitstop

Great post. That's a very succinct summary of every one of thee media 'outrages.'

Still, I have to wonder about the Breitbart - Fox affiliation. The combination of Breitbart-style deceptively edited video with Fox' reach and viewership is pretty frightening. They could say whatever they want and get a meme started it record time. They could do it every day if they wanted to.



Gonna be a 2012 to remember.

44 jamesfirecat  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:36:25pm

re: #42 Fozzie Bear

It's influenced the fabric of American culture profoundly for the better part of a century. It's just that, before the last 30 years or so, it has been used to maintain cohesion, rather than foster division. The "duck and cover" videos of the 50's, Rosie the Riveter, "I'm just a bill", etc. were all propaganda.

It's just that, like any tool, propaganda has constructive applications, and destructive ones. But lets not pretend that the US hasn't been very good at producing quality propaganda for a very long time. It's for whom, and to what end, that has changed.

For example of "Good" Propaganda look no further than everyone's favorite kid book author Theodor Geisel ... as true today as it was 70 years ago.

45 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:36:40pm

re: #24 Fozzie Bear

Intellectuals are an inherent threat to fascism. So, they must be attacked.

Their own pseudo-intellectuals like Coulter, D'Souza, Sowell, W. Williams, Newt, Weyrich/Viguerie, Charles Murray, Kevin MacDonald, Lew Rockwell, etc., cast themselves as "intellectuals". Even David Duke is trying. I'm surprised they haven't been strung up over it, frankly.

46 dragonfire1981  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:40:00pm

Something just occurred to me:

All these Right wing people work hard to convince us that that Democrats/Liberals are in league with any number of other shadowy groups and agencies and are actively engaged in a plot to misinform the American public and indoctrinate them to a certain point of view...

...But at the same time, these Right wing sources almost ALWAYS fall lockstep with each other whenever one of these "outrages" comes to light. Almost seems like someone could be pulling strings behind the scene doesn't it?

47 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:41:23pm

shannynmoore Shannyn Moore

Today's GOP consider it reaching across the aisle to attend the Presidents speech.

fucking traitors

48 Varek Raith  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:42:11pm
A gunman carrying a variant of an AK-47 rifle opened fire on uniformed Nevada National Guard members having breakfast at a Carson City, Nevada, restaurant, killing two of them and injuring three, officials said Tuesday.

An update on the Nevada shooting.
Oy.

49 nines09  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:42:19pm

The success of Fox News in getting away with outright lying proves that not only has a large percentage of the American public swallowed their bait hook,line and sinker, but have been gaffed, sapped and gutted.
They lie and tell it over and over until so many hear it they think it to be true. And we let them do it. To us. And America.

50 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:43:12pm

re: #45 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Their own pseudo-intellectuals like Coulter, D'Souza, Sowell, W. Williams, Newt, Weyrich/Viguerie, Charles Murray, Kevin MacDonald, Lew Rockwell, etc., cast themselves as "intellectuals". Even David Duke is trying. I'm surprised they haven't been strung up over it, frankly.

There's still enough residual respect for "expertise" in American culture, even on the hard right, that they need to create their own intellectual-esque types from within. They just need to be ones that stay "on message" rather than ones that actually come to their own conclusions, in order to remain in good stead with the party line.

A few years ago, Coulter wouldn't have been caught dead falling in with young earth creationists. But, recently, she has fallen in line, because if she alienates the ingroup, she loses her meal ticket.

Fascism generally initially relies on economic incentives, and then later pivots to the threat of force. The further divorced from reality the wingnut base drifts (propelled by propaganda), the more narrow and focused the message becomes. The tipping point we all have to worry about is when there is no longer any overlap with the general culture. Then the demonization can really proceed apace, because we will have fully become "The Other", rather than just misguided or deluded in their eyes.

51 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:44:42pm

re: #49 nines09

The success of Fox News in getting away with outright lying proves that not only has a large percentage of the American public swallowed their bait hook,line and sinker, but have been gaffed, sapped and gutted.
They lie and tell it over and over until so many hear it they think it to be true. And we let them do it. To us. And America.

Milly Dowler. Isn't the Parliament hearing tomorrow? Yellow Journalism, and we were warned.

52 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:45:38pm

The thing that pisses me off about this outrage is that the edit is so goddamned obvious. I mean really when I first read the story I had a problem with what Hoffa said but when you look at the reality of what happened, it's clear the man was talking about getting out the vote.

53 tnguitarist  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:46:12pm

Charles, thank you for not letting this go. I'm so pissed about this I could scream. I'm upset about the (lack of) reaction as much as the original lie. These assholes know that a lie is hard to stop once it gains traction. Where are the traditional news orgs on this one? Is there some unwritten rule about not reporting other stations lies? Damnit, I'm pissed about this.

"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes."---Twain

54 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:46:20pm

re: #41 Charles

Best of luck to ya. I've been looking at NodeJS myself lately.

NodeJS seems very promising to me. Extremely fast.

I'm just not a big fan of JavaScript's syntax. I looooove ruby as a language, but its interpreter is just so much slower.

I imagine in time i'll learn to love JS syntax. But i'll miss code blocks and mixins when using it. Seriously, if you ever get to play with ruby, it's the most astoundingly expressive and "clean" language I have ever encountered.

55 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:46:42pm

And Chuck Todd, Jake Tapper, Wolf Blitzen, Anderson Cooper are such fucking losers. This is our media today. Not one ounce of journalistic push back.

GAH.

56 dragonfire1981  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:47:22pm

re: #44 jamesfirecat

I will hate Obama in a car,
I will hate him near or far,
I will hate him on a plane,
I will hate him in the rain.

I will take America back again,
any crazy way I can.
What? I have no big jobs plan,
I do not have one, Sam I am!

I will hate Obama there or here,
I will hate him every year,
No matter who should take the blame,
I'll hate Obama just the same

I will take America back again,
any crazy way I can,
Because I love Jesus, he's the man,
He will help me, Sam I am!

57 jamesfirecat  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:48:05pm

re: #53 tnguitarist

Charles, thank you for not letting this go. I'm so pissed about this I could scream. I'm upset about the (lack of) reaction as much as the original lie. These assholes know that a lie is hard to stop once it gains traction. Where are the traditional news orgs on this one? Is there some unwritten rule about not reporting other stations lies? Damnit, I'm pissed about this.

"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes."---Twain

I don't mind the quote you posted so long as it's followed up by one from Terry Pratchett by way of William de Worde

"Well the truth has got its boots on and its kicking!"


Thanks for planting some boots to the fundament in the name of reminding people that reality is not something people can wish away Charles.

58 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:48:20pm

re: #55 Stanley Sea

And Chuck Todd, Jake Tapper, Wolf Blitzen, Anderson Cooper are such fucking losers. This is our media today. Not one ounce of journalistic push back.

GAH.

HAHA fucking reindeer typo.

59 Renaissance_Man  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:48:22pm

re: #53 tnguitarist

Charles, thank you for not letting this go. I'm so pissed about this I could scream. I'm upset about the (lack of) reaction as much as the original lie. These assholes know that a lie is hard to stop once it gains traction. Where are the traditional news orgs on this one? Is there some unwritten rule about not reporting other stations lies? Damnit, I'm pissed about this.

"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes."---Twain

The part that I still don't quite understand is the complete unwillingness of traditional media to do anything but follow blindly in FOX's footsteps. I thought that it was because they were persisting in treating FOX like an actual news organisation, and trying to 'scoop' them to a made up story, but when actual contradicting evidence arises, it's hard to believe it continues to be ignored. Yet it does.

And this is why the media is controlled by the cult. Liberal media indeed.

60 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:49:00pm

By the way, the right wing bloggers whining about this have no shame at all. When they themselves have said far worse stuff than Hoffa did.

61 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:49:55pm

re: #50 Fozzie Bear

There's still enough residual respect for "expertise" in American culture, even on the hard right, that they need to create their own intellectual-esque types from within. They just need to be ones that stay "on message" rather than ones that actually come to their own conclusions, in order to remain in good stead with the party line.

A few years ago, Coulter wouldn't have been caught dead falling in with young earth creationists. But, recently, she has fallen in line, because if she alienates the ingroup, she loses her meal ticket.

Fascism generally initially relies on economic incentives, and then later pivots to the threat of force. The further divorced from reality the wingnut base drifts (propelled by propaganda), the more narrow and focused the message becomes. The tipping point we all have to worry about is when there is no longer any overlap with the general culture. Then the demonization can really proceed apace, because we will have fully become "The Other", rather than just misguided or deluded in their eyes.

Yeah, it's been going that way for a while. The dehumanization of everyone but themselves, along with the demand to be regarded as more than our equals.

They can only get away with that amongst themselves or ganging up a la "we surround them"/#iamthemob. I'd like to see any of them go to the barrio, the rez, the hood, even the gay ghetto, etc. and pull that we-surround-them vigilante crud like they used to.

62 tnguitarist  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:50:47pm

re: #59 Renaissance_Man

The part that I still don't quite understand is the complete unwillingness of traditional media to do anything but follow blindly in FOX's footsteps. I thought that it was because they were persisting in treating FOX like an actual news organisation, and trying to 'scoop' them to a made up story, but when actual contradicting evidence arises, it's hard to believe it continues to be ignored. Yet it does.

And this is why the media is controlled by the cult. Liberal media indeed.

They sniff Fox's ass like a subservient lapdog. I'm disgusted.

63 Interesting Times  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:51:13pm

re: #58 Stanley Sea

HAHA fucking reindeer typo.

Blitzen would have performed better on Celebrity Jeopardy.

64 albusteve  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:53:57pm

re: #59 Renaissance_Man

The part that I still don't quite understand is the complete unwillingness of traditional media to do anything but follow blindly in FOX's footsteps. I thought that it was because they were persisting in treating FOX like an actual news organisation, and trying to 'scoop' them to a made up story, but when actual contradicting evidence arises, it's hard to believe it continues to be ignored. Yet it does.

And this is why the media is controlled by the cult. Liberal media indeed.

maybe the cult is controlled by the media...the cult does not set the narrative, they respond to it and individuals shoehorn their way into familiar, comfortable ground...the lunatic TP would stall, out of gas if it was not fueled by Fox

65 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:54:50pm

re: #61 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

They surround us electorally, due to the outsize representation afforded to rural areas by out electoral process. They can be in the minority, and wield majority control in government, because the system is inherently stacked against denser population areas.

Liberals tend to be concentrated very densely in urban districts that they win with huge majorities, while rural conservatives tend to be more spread out, and win more districts by smaller margins. Gerrymandering has exacerbated this effect.

And then of course there's the senate, and its "2 seats per state" rule, whether that state is Idaho or New York.

So keep in mind they really are a minority, but they have a system that favors rural citizens in terms of representation.

66 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:55:48pm

re: #63 publicityStunted

Blitzen would have performed better on Celebrity Jeopardy.

Youtube Video

Andy Richter did really well on that too. I always thought going on Jeopardy would be a neat challenge. I love testing myself at home and I do pretty well if I Say so myself. Trebek from what I've heard seems like a pretty down to earth guy.
67 MittDoesNotCompute  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:56:10pm

re: #11 Meitantei

Maybe my memory is completely wrong, but isn't the reason this blog became famous was because it, you know, checked facts about Dan Rather? As opposed to these other places?

How sad, really.

Those "other places" have been poo-pooing LGF and trying to marginalize Charles and us for the past couple of years, precisely because Charles deals in facts, not fearmongering or bullshit.

It gets hard for Charles to fight for Truth, Justice, and the American Way, especially on this Hoffa deal, when most of the non-RWNJ media are being a bunch of limp dicks about setting the record straight.

68 jamesfirecat  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:57:18pm

re: #66 HappyWarrior

[Video]
Andy Richter did really well on that too. I always thought going on Jeopardy would be a neat challenge. I love testing myself at home and I do pretty well if I Say so myself. Trebek from what I've heard seems like a pretty down to earth guy.

I want to see Jon Stewart go against Eric Cantor and Michelle Bachman, they all graduated from William and Mary so that should be nice and "fair"....

69 Romantic Heretic  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:58:59pm

re: #35 Fozzie Bear

Hey Stanley!

So I start a new job tomorrow with a web development firm in Orlando, after a few months of fitful nail-biting unemployment. I'm going to be using Ruby on Rails, NodeJS, and a few other technologies I am totally unfamiliar with. Should be very stressful, but fun.

Wish me luck, i'll need it.

Good luck.

70 albusteve  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 6:59:33pm

re: #67 talon_262

Those "other places" have been poo-pooing LGF and trying to marginalize Charles and us for the past couple of years, precisely because Charles deals in facts, not fearmongering or bullshit.

It gets hard for Charles to fight for Truth, Justice, and the American Way, especially on this Hoffa deal, when most of the non-RWNJ media are being a bunch of limp dicks about setting the record straight.

why would anybody expect them to deny the very thing they create?...ain't gonna happen...if you hold your breath waiting for justice, you'll pass out

71 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:00:04pm

re: #68 jamesfirecat

I want to see Jon Stewart go against Eric Cantor and Michelle Bachman, they all graduated from William and Mary so that should be nice and "fair"...

That would be fun.

72 Romantic Heretic  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:00:56pm

re: #43 Stanley Sea

Gonna be a 2012 to remember.

Or one we wish we could forget.

73 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:01:03pm

“I am the No. 1 target for one more extremist group to defeat this November,” she said. “We need to have your help for candidates like me. We need you to take out some of these bad guys.”

--M. Bachmann, Apr 2010

Per Washington Post blog

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

74 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:01:12pm

re: #65 Fozzie Bear

Yeah, politically, it's supposed to somewhat balance out. I'm talking about all that scapegoating and rabblerousing. Which we know to be rather infamous. "We surround them" e_e lol no, they are afraid of competition and the only thing they know to do is snuff it out.

75 Interesting Times  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:01:35pm

re: #59 Renaissance_Man

And this is why the media is controlled by the cult. Liberal media indeed.

The cult and the media are both controlled by the Kochs and their multi-million dollar donors. Who, if the rhetoric at that seminar is any guide, have enthusiastically begun smoking their own stash.

76 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:02:07pm

re: #73 Decatur Deb

“I am the No. 1 target for one more extremist group to defeat this November,” she said. “We need to have your help for candidates like me. We need you to take out some of these bad guys.”

--M. Bachmann, Apr 2010

Per Washington Post blog

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

I'm on her mailing list. The other day she was begging for $25-50-100 to defeat whatever.

Filthy grifters.

77 albusteve  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:02:44pm

re: #74 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Yeah, politically, it's supposed to somewhat balance out. I'm talking about all that scapegoating and rabblerousing. Which we know to be rather infamous. "We surround them" e_e lol no, they are afraid of competition and the only thing they know to do is snuff it out.

Doom 2

78 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:03:56pm

re: #77 albusteve

Doom 2

No, it's not doom.

79 albusteve  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:04:03pm

free speech is so cool

80 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:04:24pm

re: #73 Decatur Deb

“I am the No. 1 target for one more extremist group to defeat this November,” she said. “We need to have your help for candidates like me. We need you to take out some of these bad guys.”

--M. Bachmann, Apr 2010

Per Washington Post blog

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

Why, that's "different." Seriously do they even listen to themselves talk?

81 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:05:05pm

re: #79 albusteve

free speech is so cool

Yes, and we have to preserve it, even if the price is Murdoch and Fox.

82 Interesting Times  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:06:57pm

re: #81 Decatur Deb

Yes, and we have to preserve it, even if the price is Murdoch and Fox.

Just as there are laws against false advertising, there should also be laws against false journalism (with intentional parody such as Stewart/The Onion being the only exceptions)

83 albusteve  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:08:17pm

re: #82 publicityStunted

Just as there are laws against false advertising, there should also be laws against false journalism (with intentional parody such as Stewart/The Onion being the only exceptions)

now you are getting to the heart of the matter...what a can of worms

84 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:08:32pm

re: #82 publicityStunted

Just as there are laws against false advertising, there should also be laws against false journalism (with intentional parody such as Stewart/The Onion being the only exceptions)

"What is truth?"

--P.Pilate, 33 CE

85 albusteve  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:11:12pm

re: #84 Decatur Deb

"What is truth?"

--P.Pilate, 33 CE

a puzzle of many pieces...no one piece defines the truth, but all together, with luck, if all the pieces fit exactly together you may find the truth

86 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:12:19pm

re: #85 albusteve

a puzzle of many pieces...no one piece defines the truth, but all together, with luck, if all the pieces fit exactly together you may find the truth

Yup. But it's not the sort of thing I'd take to a jury.

87 albusteve  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:14:03pm

re: #86 Decatur Deb

Yup. But it's not the sort of thing I'd take to a jury.

jury's are not about truth or justice...jury's are about emotion

88 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:14:18pm

re: #84 Decatur Deb

There is no spoon...
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.
Marcus Aurelius

89 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:16:18pm

re: #82 publicityStunted

Just as there are laws against false advertising, there should also be laws against false journalism (with intentional parody such as Stewart/The Onion being the only exceptions)

Unfortunately FOX long ago secured the legal right to intentionally lie in their news broadcasts. Of course you have a good point, as the ruling hinges on the fact that "the FCC policy against falsification was not a 'law, rule, or regulation.'"

90 Digital Display  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:17:22pm

re: #83 albusteve

now you are getting to the heart of the matter...what a can of worms

Hey you..Off-Topic..effen politics right now...
Went out Friday night with the local Cowboys..About 5 of em came by to pick me up and we all sat around for a while and drank Beer and BS'd and this one guy went over and picked up my Strat.. I was ready to jump him with a kitchen knife.. And he started playing.. I'm thinking..OK he can live for now..And starts playing old school rhythms and I'm thinking..Whoa.. Nobody knows how to play Joel Scott Hill in Oklahoma...He was pretty good.. I want to start a band again.. An Oklahoma small time band..
Call it..Stupid Cowboys.. :)

91 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:17:29pm

re: #88 Killgore Trout

There is no spoon...
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.
Marcus Aurelius

So let's leave freedom of the press intact. The answer to brilliantly spread falshood is brilliantly spread fact. We are supposed to be the smart guys, so why should we be afraid of our ability to reproduce ourselves in the minds of the young?

92 Interesting Times  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:18:58pm

re: #84 Decatur Deb

"What is truth?"

Just a little thing Fox News happens to be allergic to :P

On a more serious note:

the CRTC last month scrapped a proposal to revoke or relax a rule on “prohibited programming content” that includes “broadcasting false or misleading news.” The CRTC withdrew the plan when a legislative committee determined that the rule does not run afoul of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, which like the U.S. Constitution, guarantees press freedoms.

93 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:19:13pm

re: #35 Fozzie Bear

Hey Stanley!

So I start a new job tomorrow with a web development firm in Orlando, after a few months of fitful nail-biting unemployment. I'm going to be using Ruby on Rails, NodeJS, and a few other technologies I am totally unfamiliar with. Should be very stressful, but fun.

Wish me luck, i'll need it.

awesomesauce!

94 albusteve  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:19:25pm

re: #90 HoosierHoops

Hey you..Off-Topic..effen politics right now...
Went out Friday night with the local Cowboys..About 5 of em came by to pick me up and we all sat around for a while and drank Beer and BS'd and this one guy went over and picked up my Strat.. I was ready to jump him with a kitchen knife.. And he started playing.. I'm thinking..OK he can live for now..And starts playing old school rhythms and I'm thinking..Whoa.. Nobody knows how to play Joel Scott Hill in Oklahoma...He was pretty good.. I want to start a band again.. An Oklahoma small time band..
Call it..Stupid Cowboys.. :)

well, there is Cowboy Mouth

Youtube Video
95 Digital Display  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:22:28pm

re: #94 albusteve

well, there is Cowboy Mouth

[Video]

They sound like a Jack Black Tribute band..
:)

96 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:23:04pm

re: #92 publicityStunted

Just a little thing Fox News happens to be allergic to :P

"the CRTC last month scrapped a proposal to revoke or relax a rule on “prohibited programming content” that includes “broadcasting false or misleading news.” The CRTC withdrew the plan when a legislative committee determined that the rule does not run afoul of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, which like the U.S. Constitution, guarantees press freedoms."

That's a neat rule when you're dealing with nice Canadians, but it's basically a totalitarian's wet dream.

97 makeitstop  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:24:19pm

re: #95 HoosierHoops

They sound like a Jack Black Tribute band..
:)

Cowboy Mouth was there first.

98 albusteve  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:24:34pm

re: #95 HoosierHoops

They sound like a Jack Black Tribute band..
:)

seen them a few times across the south...they are a riot, just one hell of a lot of fun

99 Renaissance_Man  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:24:38pm

re: #91 Decatur Deb

So let's leave freedom of the press intact. The answer to brilliantly spread falshood is brilliantly spread fact. We are supposed to be the smart guys, so why should we be afraid of our ability to reproduce ourselves in the minds of the young?

Because emotional lies are much more powerful than facts.

100 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:25:23pm

re: #43 Stanley Sea

Gonna be a 2012 to remember.

Or avoid, if possible! The rhetoric is just going to keep getting more heated.

101 Interesting Times  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:26:41pm

re: #96 Decatur Deb

That's a neat rule when you're dealing with nice Canadians, but it's basically a totalitarian's wet dream.

We have a totalitarian-wannabe prime minister in Stephen Harper, but he wanted that rule scrapped so his cronies could set up "Fox News of the North" :)

102 Iwouldprefernotto  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:28:42pm

FYI. The Add at the top of my page is for the gold company that Beck represents. In other words, Beck is giving you money......Yes, there is a god, or evolution or something....

103 Digital Display  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:28:44pm

re: #98 albusteve

seen them a few times across the south...they are a riot, just one hell of a lot of fun

They do sound like a fun band to see live...

104 recusancy  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:28:48pm

re: #54 Fozzie Bear

NodeJS seems very promising to me. Extremely fast.

I'm just not a big fan of JavaScript's syntax. I looove ruby as a language, but its interpreter is just so much slower.

I imagine in time i'll learn to love JS syntax. But i'll miss code blocks and mixins when using it. Seriously, if you ever get to play with ruby, it's the most astoundingly expressive and "clean" language I have ever encountered.

I'm a novice rubyist. I still have a hard time not adding semi colons all over the place.

105 Digital Display  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:29:34pm

re: #100 Floral Giraffe

Or avoid, if possible! The rhetoric is just going to keep getting more heated.

Hi you!

106 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:29:55pm

re: #88 Killgore Trout

There is no spoon...
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.
Marcus Aurelius

Marcus was a Stoic. His point was more, "don't over-react to the spoon and approach it rationally, understanding the difference between the actual spoon and your own flawed and emotional preconceptions regarding spoonishness."

107 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:30:09pm

"Lie to me, I promise I'll believe .."

Youtube Video
108 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:31:27pm

'Nite, all. Good luck, Fozzie.

109 Renaissance_Man  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:31:35pm

re: #101 publicityStunted

We have a totalitarian-wannabe prime minister in Stephen Harper, but he wanted that rule scrapped so his cronies could set up "Fox News of the North" :)

Yeah, but see, even Canadian totalitarians are so nice that they want to change the law that prevents them from spreading propaganda, rather than just ignoring said law.

"Damn those liberals, Prentice! It's still illegal to spread fake news! Our plans will have to be put on hold."

"Have we, you know, considered, perhaps, just not following the law, sir? Maybe?"

...

"Fire that intern, Prentice."

110 albusteve  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:32:46pm

re: #103 HoosierHoops

They do sound like a fun band to see live...

here's another regional band trying to make it...I can't say enough about these guys, even tho I've posted this a bunch of time...from Burlington, VT...
Grace Potter...these guys flat out rock

Youtube Video
111 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:33:55pm

Mitt Romney blames Barack Obama for economic conditions in 2007 and 2008.

[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

112 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:35:59pm

re: #111 moderatelyradicalliberal

Mitt Romney blames Barack Obama for economic conditions in 2007 and 2008.

[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

This plus birther conspiracies totally validates my theory that Obama has access to a TARDIS.

113 albusteve  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:36:58pm

I'd like to start a politically critical band....
Blather and the TripeTones

114 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:37:43pm

re: #104 recusancy

I'm a novice rubyist. I still have a hard time not adding semi colons all over the place.

As an intermediate rubyist, I still have trouble not explicitly using "return". It's a weird language, but I freaking love its flexibility, especially the metaprogramming aspect.

115 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:38:03pm

re: #105 HoosierHoops

Hi you!

Back atcha!
How're you doing?
And, Winston?

116 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:38:33pm

re: #106 The Ghost of a Flea

Marcus was a Stoic. His point was more, "don't over-react to the spoon and approach it rationally, understanding the difference between the actual spoon and your own flawed and emotional preconceptions regarding spoonishness."

the stoics were overly concerned with piety for my taste. The original context was probably along the lines of not trying to guess the intended reality of the divine beings that created our reality.

117 albusteve  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:40:48pm

re: #116 Killgore Trout

the stoics were overly concerned with piety for my taste. The original context was probably along the lines of not trying to guess the intended reality of the divine beings that created our reality.

you sound like a Pueblo

118 Digital Display  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:41:23pm

re: #110 albusteve

here's another regional band trying to make it...I can't say enough about these guys, even tho I've posted this a bunch of time...from Burlington, VT...
Grace Potter...these guys flat out rock

[Video]

Awesome Band Dude! Love the Tele player...Hot sh*t
One little criticism.. I love the girl keyboard player..She is really good and I'd love to make her my next ex-wife but She doesn't sing well.. They need a front man to complete them..

119 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:42:51pm

re: #112 The Ghost of a Flea

This plus birther conspiracies totally validates my theory that Obama has access to a TARDIS.

Everything that has gone wrong in the world since 8/4/61 is Obama's fault.

120 Digital Display  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:43:18pm

re: #115 Floral Giraffe

Back atcha!
How're you doing?
And, Winston?

Doing great..I think Winston is a little under the weather.. But the maid came by tonight and he was all excited and running around...I think he is jobbing me for more treats..
Hope today finds you well

121 mikec6666  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:43:26pm

Democrats and allies of the working people better get some balls and start talking like this more often.

122 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:44:01pm

re: #121 mikec6666

Democrats and allies of the working people better get some balls and start talking like this more often.

+1

123 albusteve  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:45:37pm

re: #118 HoosierHoops

Awesome Band Dude! Love the Tele player...Hot sh*t
One little criticism.. I love the girl keyboard player..She is really good and I'd love to make her my next ex-wife but She doesn't sing well.. They need a front man to complete them..

she has a voice, and she plays a fair guitar and also writes stuff...but I get you...they are probably not the Next Thing, but like Cowboy Mouth, they knock the hell out of us festival types...they use up alot of energy at their gigs, and I admire them for the effort

124 Interesting Times  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:46:27pm
JohnFugelsang John Fugelsang
by CuriousLurker
Rick Perry cut Texas Volunteer Fire Dept funding 75%, now asking Federal Gov't for money to fight fires. Any questions?

Yes: how do I put out this fire?

125 Mocking Jay  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:46:46pm

re: #111 moderatelyradicalliberal

Mitt Romney blames Barack Obama for economic conditions in 2007 and 2008.

[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

If only we hadn't elected Barack Obama, 9/11 would never have happened.

126 albusteve  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:49:51pm

re: #124 publicityStunted

Yes: how do I put out this fire?

regardless of funding capers, the feds need to jump into these fires across the west...without them it's hopeless....the Wallow fire over in AZ earlier had over 5k fighters on the line....this shit gets very serious...regardless I'm skeptical of Perry's drift here

127 Mocking Jay  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:51:03pm

re: #112 The Ghost of a Flea

This plus birther conspiracies totally validates my theory that Obama has access to a TARDIS.

The real question is, if the Muslo-Kenyans have access to time travel, why do they need to infiltrate the US with their Atheo-socialism?

The plot thickens...

128 Digital Display  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:53:22pm

re: #123 albusteve

she has a voice, and she plays a fair guitar and also writes stuff...but I get you...they are probably not the Next Thing, but like Cowboy Mouth, they knock the hell out of us festival types...they use up alot of energy at their gigs, and I admire them for the effort

Who the heck is that guitarist and harp man? I mean he is really good...
I tried to learn Harp once cause of blind Allen and James Cotton.. I just never got it..I really suck.. I mean big time..Of course I know how to play keys with harp players...Cause of Canned Heat.. But we would be jamming in High School and I'd call out E for a song and the Harp player would pick up a E harp...Excuse me? Pick up an A and get over here...
John..Where do you find these guys?
Band?
Figures...
You were going to play in E? Really? Need a beer?
LOL

129 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:54:01pm

re: #125 JasonA

If only we hadn't elected Barack Obama, 9/11 would never have happened.

Time traveling muslin usurper Barium Soros-Toe!

130 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:56:27pm

I really like this idea.

How is everyone?

131 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:57:22pm

re: #124 publicityStunted

Yes: how do I put out this fire?

beer

132 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:57:57pm

re: #131 ggt

beer

Beer pee.

133 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:58:30pm

re: #116 Killgore Trout

the stoics were overly concerned with piety for my taste. The original context was probably along the lines of not trying to guess the intended reality of the divine beings that created our reality.

I'd go with that.

The "here and now" is mindboggling enough.

134 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 7:59:48pm

re: #99 Renaissance_Man

Because emotional lies are much more powerful than facts.

We are feeling creatures that think.

135 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:00:26pm

re: #134 ggt

Or, thinking creatures that feel...

136 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:00:38pm

re: #127 JasonA

The real question is, if the Muslo-Kenyans have access to time travel, why do they need to infiltrate the US with their Atheo-socialism?

The plot thickens...

Because George Soros needs the biological material of ruthless Atheo-socialists with which to fabricate a new generation of Daleks.

re: #129 goddamnedfrank

Time traveling muslin usurper Barium Soros-Toe!

Yeah. You can laugh because you've never tangled with a Time Jihadist.

137 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:00:56pm

re: #88 Killgore Trout

There is no spoon...
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.
Marcus Aurelius

It's a spoon if we all agree it's a spoon.

-Lucretius???

138 Varek Raith  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:01:33pm

re: #137 ggt

It's a spoon if we all agree it's a spoon.

-Lucretius???

There is no spoon.

139 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:01:49pm

re: #138 Varek Raith

There is no spoon.

only if we all agree

:)

140 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:02:21pm

re: #135 Floral Giraffe

Or, thinking creatures that feel...

No, I think the neurologists have determined it is the other way around.

141 albusteve  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:02:21pm

re: #138 Varek Raith

There is no spoon.

profound

142 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:03:55pm

I'm practicing random acts of Chocolate.

here everybody.

143 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:04:24pm

re: #138 Varek Raith

There is no spoon.

I forgot, you don't use tableware --or a table.

:0

144 Digital Display  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:04:26pm

Dang.. I have a birthday this month...
I hate growing older..But look at the Alternative..
BTW.. I saw a special on the military channel of the graveyards of American Heroes in Europe...As this one old man walked along talking about his fallen friends he said something that really moved me...
He stopped and we looked out over endless white crosses.. And he said
These boys will forever be young.. Forever be young

145 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:05:02pm

re: #142 ggt

I'm practicing random acts of Chocolate.

here everybody.

Every year for my mom's Bday I give her a bag of Hugs and a bag of Kisses.

146 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:05:27pm

re: #145 Cannadian Club Akbar

Every year for my mom's Bday I give her a bag of Hugs and a bag of Kisses.

awwww

What a good kid you are!

147 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:06:25pm

I say there is no Michelle Bachmann.

If we all agree, will she go *poof*?

148 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:06:52pm

re: #146 ggt

awww

What a good kid you are!

Uh, OK, didn't put her through hell at all. Let's start with the fact that I was 8 LBS. 13 OZs.:)

149 freetoken  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:07:46pm

As mentioned earlier, Rick Perry has history. In the past week stories have been popping up about James Leininger, and now Michelle Goldberg jumps on:
[Link: www.thedailybeast.com...]

150 albusteve  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:08:11pm

re: #144 HoosierHoops

Dang.. I have a birthday this month...
I hate growing older..But look at the Alternative..
BTW.. I saw a special on the military channel of the graveyards of American Heroes in Europe...As this one old man walked along talking about his fallen friends he said something that really moved me...
He stopped and we looked out over endless white crosses.. And he said
These boys will forever be young.. Forever be young

Dylan
Forever Young

Youtube Video
151 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:08:57pm

re: #149 freetoken

As mentioned earlier, Rick Perry has history. In the past week stories have been popping up about James Leininger, and now Michelle Goldberg jumps on:
[Link: www.thedailybeast.com...]

I swear, Perry looks like he is wearing a face-mask.

Mission Impossible or MIB style.

152 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:09:57pm

re: #150 albusteve

Dylan
Forever Young

[Video]

I like Rod Stewart's because the kid is so cute.

153 McSpiff  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:09:59pm

re: #144 HoosierHoops

Dang.. I have a birthday this month...
I hate growing older..But look at the Alternative..
BTW.. I saw a special on the military channel of the graveyards of American Heroes in Europe...As this one old man walked along talking about his fallen friends he said something that really moved me...
He stopped and we looked out over endless white crosses.. And he said
These boys will forever be young.. Forever be young

Youtube Video


...I'm a little drunk.

154 darthstar  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:13:05pm

Someone needs to point out that Palin's "being a retard" by parroting Fox bullshit. Fuck her. Let her complain about her kid she never sees. When she complains, ask her how many nights in the last 300 she spent with the kid. Fucking self-centered skank.

Same goes for the other Foxtards.

155 albusteve  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:14:48pm

re: #152 ggt

I like Rod Stewart's because the kid is so cute.

he should stick to he own stuff
Mandolin Wind

Youtube Video
156 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:15:35pm

re: #147 ggt

I say there is no Michelle Bachmann.

If we all agree, will she go *poof*?

Nope, positive wishing doesn't do anything outside of your mind. "The Secret" is BS.

157 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:16:23pm

re: #156 Dark_Falcon

Nope, positive wishing doesn't do anything outside of your mind. "The Secret" is BS.

damn!

158 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:17:08pm

re: #156 Dark_Falcon

Nope, positive wishing doesn't do anything outside of your mind. "The Secret" is BS.

thinking positive is good, but you still gotta, like, ACTUALLY DO THINGS lol

159 McSpiff  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:17:44pm

re: #155 albusteve

Never heard this one before. Thanks. Almost reminds me of 'Tangerine' by Zeppelin. Something in the cords maybe.

160 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:18:05pm

re: #156 Dark_Falcon

Nope, positive wishing doesn't do anything outside of your mind. "The Secret" is BS.

also, behaviorism [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

161 albusteve  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:18:08pm

re: #154 darthstar

Someone needs to point out that Palin's "being a retard" by parroting Fox bullshit. Fuck her. Let her complain about her kid she never sees. When she complains, ask her how many nights in the last 300 she spent with the kid. Fucking self-centered skank.

Same goes for the other Foxtards.

Palin...
who?

162 freetoken  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:19:02pm

re: #161 albusteve

Palin...
who?

just a flash-in-the-pan vanity author that got some publicity a while back. It'll pass....

163 makeitstop  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:19:22pm

re: #149 freetoken

As mentioned earlier, Rick Perry has history. In the past week stories have been popping up about James Leininger, and now Michelle Goldberg jumps on:
[Link: www.thedailybeast.com...]

A millionaire fundie with what seems to be an obsession with homoerotic imagery.

In 1994, for example, one Leininger-funded group sent out a campaign mailer showing two men kissing; it accused an incumbent school board member of promoting homosexuality. The school board member was defeated by Leininger’s candidate, Donna Ballard, one of a series of victories by the social conservatives who soon took over the body.

Photos of gay men, intended to repulse, have been a hallmark of Leininger’s campaigns, and not just against Democrats. In 2002, the Dallas Morning News reported, “Acting Lt. Gov. Bill Ratliff and key GOP legislators say they have been falsely portrayed as promoting ‘homosexual lifestyles’ and gay sex education in public schools in political fliers sent out in recent days by a Dallas-based conservative group.” Leininger was one of the biggest contributors to that group, the Free Enterprise Political Action Committee.

The right wing just keeps on getting stranger the deeper you look.

164 albusteve  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:20:11pm

re: #159 McSpiff

Never heard this one before. Thanks. Almost reminds me of 'Tangerine' by Zeppelin. Something in the cords maybe.

wow...never heard it?
there is a ton of killer music from back then....Ron Wood does not play lead guitar for the Stones for nothing

165 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:20:37pm

re: #163 makeitstop

A millionaire fundie with what seems to be an obsession with homoerotic imagery. The right wing just keeps on getting stranger the deeper you look.

Texas seems like another planet

politics like that would just be laughed at elsewhere, but it works in texas

166 albusteve  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:20:47pm

re: #162 freetoken

just a flash-in-the-pan vanity author that got some publicity a while back. It'll pass...

I don't do Palin

167 freetoken  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:21:26pm

re: #166 albusteve

I don't do Palin

I wouldn't do Palin...

168 McSpiff  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:21:45pm

re: #164 albusteve

wow...never heard it?
there is a ton of killer music from back then...Ron Wood does not play lead guitar for the Stones for nothing

Not easy to jam 50 years of music into 23 years. Keep'em coming, I'll keep listening.

169 reine.de.tout  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:22:09pm

re: #155 albusteve

he should stick to he own stuff
Mandolin Wind

[Video]

There are some songs that bring me right back to age 18, and being a college freshman. This is one of them. I swear, if I closed my eyes I would be 18 again. *sigh*

170 darthstar  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:22:28pm

Watching "What Not To Wear"...fun show...but the gal they're helping this week thinks dressing as provocatively as possible is what keeps her boyfriend from wondering. The value of a high school education(and no more) illustrated. This is why you want your daughters going to college.

Not this:
In life, we must all make choices

171 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:22:55pm

I took a trip up to Milwaukee on Sunday and hadn't realized it was the 65th anniversary of Freddie Mercury's birth. So let's hear a song from that very talented man at the head of Queen for a song that ties in very well to this threads topic:

Youtube Video
172 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:23:19pm

From the Wiki:

In reference to his divorces, Rod Stewart was once quoted as saying, "Instead of getting married again, I'm going to find a woman I don't like and just give her a house."[100]

173 Digital Display  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:23:46pm

OK.. I read the funniest thing in the world this morning.. I'm in my cube after a 3 day weekend drinking coffee praying for mercy when this one guy a few cubes down just started laughing out loud like crazy..He calls everybody over...He says you have to read this email..
I read the email..just boring business stuff..So what..What the hell is so funny?
Look closer.. Look at the end...
What...
She had typed a T instead of a G
So instead of Regards, Sandy.. It was Retards, Sandy
I thought I'd die..So For the next 60 days its going to be Retards on my emails to her..
Retards Lizards
..Man that was funny

174 darthstar  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:23:51pm

re: #171 Dark_Falcon

I took a trip up to Milwaukee on Sunday and hadn't realized it was the 65th anniversary of Freddie Mercury's birth. So let's hear a song from that very talented man at the head of Queen for a song that ties in very well to this threads topic:

[Video]

Dark...who knew there was this side to you?...

175 albusteve  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:24:29pm

re: #169 reine.de.tout

There are some songs that bring me right back to age 18, and being a college freshman. This is one of them. I swear, if I closed my eyes I would be 18 again. *sigh*

wouldn't we all...the glory days

176 albusteve  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:26:17pm

re: #168 McSpiff

Not easy to jam 50 years of music into 23 years. Keep'em coming, I'll keep listening.

alot of music there, and it stands up today...Faces, Beck, Steward, Ronnie Lane, Woody...they are all connected

177 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:28:10pm

re: #144 HoosierHoops

29 AGAIN?
Me too!
Happy birfday, friend!

178 albusteve  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:29:04pm

re: #171 Dark_Falcon

I took a trip up to Milwaukee on Sunday and hadn't realized it was the 65th anniversary of Freddie Mercury's birth. So let's hear a song from that very talented man at the head of Queen for a song that ties in very well to this threads topic:

[Video]

I really dig this straightforward shuffle...
Queen

Youtube Video
179 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:29:15pm

Remember my rants about Coke and Pork rinds being paid for with our tax dollars--thru "food stamps"?

Did you see the most recent Pages?

180 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:31:22pm

re: #174 darthstar

Dark...who knew there was this side to you?...

I was going to use a different song, but when I clicked on YoTube some of the suggestions were for 65th Birthday Tributes for Freddie that were posted on Queen's official YouTube channel. I remembered from the A&E special on Queen that they had done a song called "Scandal" and so I found it on their channel. I listened to it a bit before posting it and found it fit well.

Many music performers perform songs where being plagued by the press is a major theme, but few ever have done it as well as Queen. As Toto did for breakup songs with "Rosanna", Queen set a very high bad with "Scandal".

181 albusteve  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:33:08pm

re: #180 Dark_Falcon

I was going to use a different song, but when I clicked on YoTube some of the suggestions were for 65th Birthday Tributes for Freddie that were posted on Queen's official YouTube channel. I remembered from the A&E special on Queen that they had done a song called "Scandal" and so I found it on their channel. I listened to it a bit before posting it and found it fit well.

Many music performers perform songs where being plagued by the press is a major theme, but few ever have done it as well as Queen. As Toto did for breakup songs with "Rosanna", Queen set a very high bad with "Scandal".

Queen was a Stones clone...just so you know

182 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:34:33pm

re: #147 ggt

I say there is no Michelle Bachmann.

If we all agree, will she go *poof*?

Because every time a child says "I don't believe in Michele Bachmann..."

Do we have to clap?

183 albusteve  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:36:05pm

Toto
Rosanna
crank it

Youtube Video
184 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:38:36pm

Downtown Train --after a recap.

185 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:38:51pm

re: #182 SanFranciscoZionist

"There's no place like home,
there's no place like home"
Now click your heels together...
In those ruby slippers...

186 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:39:10pm

re: #182 SanFranciscoZionist

Because every time a child says "I don't believe in Michele Bachmann..."

Do we have to clap?

If enough of us clap will she go *poof*?

187 Digital Display  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:39:12pm

re: #177 Floral Giraffe

29 AGAIN?
Me too!
Happy birfday, friend!

The 21st...It's on a Weds. So you know I'm not doing a dang thing that night.. A nice dinner..A nice Merlot..
When I was 29 it was like dude! It's My Birthday! We are going out! Didn't matter what day it was...Monday or Thursday..Dude It's my Birthday..We are going out! We'd get home at 4am and go to work at 7.. No big deal..
*wink*

188 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:39:46pm

re: #187 HoosierHoops

The 21st...It's on a Weds. So you know I'm not doing a dang thing that night.. A nice dinner..A nice Merlot..
When I was 29 it was like dude! It's My Birthday! We are going out! Didn't matter what day it was...Monday or Thursday..Dude It's my Birthday..We are going out! We'd get home at 4am and go to work at 7.. No big deal..
*wink*

I lost count after 21.

189 laZardo  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:39:57pm

Back from work, got the day off tomorrow. Gonna spend that day passing my manager as a reference to other places closer to my current place of residence.

190 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:43:33pm

re: #181 albusteve

Queen was a Stones clone...just so you know

And they made "We Will Rock You" as a reply to Sid Vicious after he mocked Freddie Mercury for "bringing opera to the masses".

191 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:44:47pm

re: #185 Floral Giraffe

"There's no place like home,
there's no place like home"
Now click your heels together...
In those ruby slippers...

Do giraffe's need to wear ruby horseshoes?

192 Digital Display  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:45:14pm

re: #188 ggt

I lost count after 21.

I turned 21 at whales Cove, Oregon..Stayed there about a week with a young lady.. Later to be my wife.. I bought my first legal bottle of wine..
I didn't get carded.. Hey..You have to look at my ID.. I'm 21 tonight..
She looks over indifferent.. It was classic...As BB King sang..The Thrill is gone...

193 McSpiff  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:46:24pm

re: #187 HoosierHoops

I have a friend who's birthday always ends up totally out of control... usually my fault... well it turns out that not only did I move across the country, she did too... Her and her fiance (I introduced them) are now living in the same city as me again. But this year I'm an adult. I have a real job, responsibilities. I also have vacation days.

Booked the day after off. Figured that's a fair compromise.

194 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:47:09pm

re: #190 Dark_Falcon

Sex Pistols were an interesting phenomenon, but they were a concoction of this guy, they were closer to a reality TV show than actual art

195 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:49:14pm

Queen at Wembly Stadium.

all 1.5 hours, it seems.

196 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:49:18pm

re: #192 HoosierHoops

I was at a Thrill Kill Kult show for my 21st :D

Youtube Video
197 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:52:02pm

It's funny about the three year difference between drinking age here and in Europe. I was in Europe the month before I turned 21. I was carded once when I was over there and it was at a Munich suburban grocery store and all it took was me explaining that yes I was over 18 for the grocer to let me go on with my purchase. It's my understanding that they're supposed to card people who look as old as 30. I get carded I guess 70% of the time. Mostly at grocery stores. Give or take at bars, at ones I am a semi regular it's almost never. It did happen this past Saturday but the bouncer I know wasn't there so that probably played a role. I am testing a small hypothesis though. I want to see if growing a beard has made me more likely to be carded or not. So far no real differences.

198 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:52:51pm

re: #187 HoosierHoops

Happy Birfday, in advance.
I might call you, just to scare you!
*wink*

199 Digital Display  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:54:13pm

re: #198 Floral Giraffe

Happy Birfday, in advance.
I might call you, just to scare you!
*wink*

I love chatting with you...

200 freetoken  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:56:59pm

What's the chance that President Obama will tell his fellow citizens the reality of economics?

201 laZardo  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 8:59:55pm

re: #200 freetoken

What's the chance that President Obama will tell his fellow citizens the reality of economics?

That's implying they won't have already bought into the GOP soundbites during the "debate."

202 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 9:01:11pm

re: #183 albusteve

Toto
Rosanna
crank it

[Video]

I love Toto. Africa my fav.

203 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 9:01:19pm

Freddie Mercury was born Farrokh Bulsara . and was a Zoroastrian.

I can't even pronounce that.

If he started his career today, he'd be all over Fox news and it would be a huge deal.

204 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 9:02:37pm

re: #197 HappyWarrior

It's funny about the three year difference between drinking age here and in Europe. I was in Europe the month before I turned 21. I was carded once when I was over there and it was at a Munich suburban grocery store and all it took was me explaining that yes I was over 18 for the grocer to let me go on with my purchase. It's my understanding that they're supposed to card people who look as old as 30. I get carded I guess 70% of the time. Mostly at grocery stores. Give or take at bars, at ones I am a semi regular it's almost never. It did happen this past Saturday but the bouncer I know wasn't there so that probably played a role. I am testing a small hypothesis though. I want to see if growing a beard has made me more likely to be carded or not. So far no real differences.

Where I work we have to card everyone and scan the bar code on the back of their state issued ID.

Corporate lawyers and all.

80 years old, I still have to card and scan.

205 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 9:02:44pm

re: #200 freetoken

What's the chance that President Obama will tell his fellow citizens the reality of economics?

Very unlikely. I don't think he understands the realities himself.

206 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 9:03:27pm

Oh blah Dark.

OK, I'm out. Totally beat from the sun this weekend. Later Lizardians.

207 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 9:04:18pm

re: #206 Stanley Sea

Good night, oh tanned one!
LOL!

208 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 9:04:36pm

re: #205 Dark_Falcon

Very unlikely. I don't think he understands the realities himself.

Does anyone?

209 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 9:05:34pm

re: #204 ggt

Where I work we have to card everyone and scan the bar code on the back of their state issued ID.

Corporate lawyers and all.

80 years old, I still have to card and scan.

I respect htat. I never get pissy when I get carded. I'd rather I not but it's the law and these shopkeepers and bartenders know the repercussions if htey sell alcohol to underage people. Not a law I agree with but the law nonetheless.

210 freetoken  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 9:05:42pm

re: #208 ggt

Does anyone?

Obviously Michelle Bachmann doesn't (as demonstrated by her $2 gasoline comment.)

211 McSpiff  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 9:06:20pm

re: #208 ggt

Does anyone?

re: #208 ggt

Does anyone?

Taxes bad! Reagan good!

212 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 9:06:40pm

re: #209 HappyWarrior

I respect htat. I never get pissy when I get carded. I'd rather I not but it's the law and these shopkeepers and bartenders know the repercussions if htey sell alcohol to underage people. Not a law I agree with but the law nonetheless.

It's stupid in many regards.

Regular customers and obviously senior-citizens shouldn't have to show proof of age to buy alcohol.

213 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 9:08:22pm

re: #202 Stanley Sea

I love Toto. Africa my fav.

Me, too. Here's a video with the audio from their concert in Amsterdam in 2003. This one has the audio in stereo:

Youtube Video
214 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 9:09:59pm

re: #204 ggt

Where I work we have to card everyone and scan the bar code on the back of their state issued ID.

Corporate lawyers and all.

80 years old, I still have to card and scan.

I know that feeling.

215 freetoken  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 9:15:23pm

File this one under Probably Important News to which Most Americans Pay No Attention:

Franc plunges as Swiss set euro-franc floor
SNB vows to buy ‘unlimited quantities’ of euros to defend rate

216 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 9:18:52pm

re: #215 freetoken

File this one under Probably Important News to which Most Americans Pay No Attention:

Franc plunges as Swiss set euro-franc floor
SNB vows to buy ‘unlimited quantities’ of euros to defend rate

Yikes. That sort of currency crisis in Europe can easily spread economic damage to North America.

217 Achilles Tang  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 9:19:19pm

re: #212 ggt

It's stupid in many regards.

Regular customers and obviously senior-citizens shouldn't have to show proof of age to buy alcohol.

"Regular customers"?

The reason is to get the seller to positively state (swear) that they verified ID. If they were allowed to simply say it was a regular customer, with or without a cane, they would be more likely to cheat.

218 freetoken  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 9:21:05pm

re: #216 Dark_Falcon

It's not called a "crisis" if it is preemptive.

The Swiss, which are not part of the Euro, need to keep their currency from become a target for those fleeing the Euro (or the Dollar, or anything else.)

The Japanese are in a similar situation wrt the Dollar. Toyota is having to build more cars in the US, in part due to the fact that Americans can't afford cars built in Japan.

219 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 9:21:18pm

re: #217 Naso Tang

"Regular customers"?

The reason is to get the seller to positively state (swear) that they verified ID. If they were allowed to simply say it was a regular customer, with or without a cane, they would be more likely to cheat.

With the camera surveillance system and credit card receipts it is pretty easy to identify regular customers.

You could also ask 9/10 of the staff the person's name and where they live and get a correct answer.

220 makeitstop  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 9:21:46pm

My favorite version of 'Africa.'

Youtube Video
221 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 9:22:54pm

re: #218 freetoken

It's not called a "crisis" if it is preemptive.

The Swiss, which are not part of the Euro, need to keep their currency from become a target for those fleeing the Euro (or the Dollar, or anything else.)

The Japanese are in a similar situation wrt the Dollar. Toyota is having to build more cars in the US, in part due to the fact that Americans can't afford cars built in Japan.

safety shit's expensive!

We could manufacture a new CRX-HF, 50 mpg (just like the old one) and probably sell it for $5000 brand new, but people need their 4000 lb. cars with 10 air bags *_*

222 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 9:23:38pm

It actually seems like a very cool faith, but I can't help thinking there is a "car" joke in here somewhere.

Zoroastrianism (play /ˌzɒroʊˈæstri.ənɪzəm/) (or Mazdaism) is a religion and philosophy based on the teachings of prophet Zoroaster (also known as Zarathustra, in Avestan) and was formerly among the world's largest religions.[1] It was probably founded some time before the 6th century BCE in Persia (Iran).

In Zoroastrianism, the Creator Ahura Mazda is all good, and no evil originates from Him. Thus, in Zoroastrianism good and evil have distinct sources, with evil (druj) trying to destroy the creation of Mazda (asha), and good trying to sustain it. Mazda is not immanent in the world, and His creation is represented by the Amesha Spentas and the host of other Yazatas, through whom the works of God are evident to humanity, and through whom worship of Mazda is ultimately directed.

.

223 Achilles Tang  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 9:25:15pm

re: #200 freetoken

What's the chance that President Obama will tell his fellow citizens the reality of economics?

Not much, because the majority don't know squat about economics, except in "family" terms like the Republican call it.

I watched some of Blitzer's interview of Cheney earlier. Cheney was asked, more than once, what the Bush administration (and Republican majority most of the time) could have done to avert this recession. Cheney had no answer at all other than lay blame on 9/11, and a Democrat congress.

This is "family" economics, like when I get a tenant who says the rent wasn't paid on time because the boss made him work late (dog ate the paycheck).

224 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 9:26:59pm

re: #222 ggt

I'm a fan of Mazdaism

225 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 9:29:32pm

re: #224 WindUpBird

I'm a fan of Mazdaism

But do you truly believe?

226 freetoken  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 9:29:39pm

re: #222 ggt

In the past questions have been raised about how the early forms of Zoroastrianism were influenced by the Judahites that Babylon took from Jerusalem.

The Iron Age religions find their history often in their Bronze Age predecessors too. Many in the Levant regions share the same basic ideas - a pantheon of super-beings (often headed by a numero-uno which in the case of the Canaanites was "El") and so forth.

Also, questions have been raised about Zoroastrianism's influence on early Christianity, via mystery cults in Rome that may have a lineage back to the Persian area.

227 Achilles Tang  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 9:30:32pm

re: #219 ggt

With the camera surveillance system and credit card receipts it is pretty easy to identify regular customers.

You could also ask 9/10 of the staff the person's name and where they live and get a correct answer.

Come on, you know what I said first time. Simplicity and compromise. The checkout person swears they verified ID, and perhaps a camera can verify that if there is an arrest outside the store and let them off the hook, and there are sometimes stings for this.

The only beef I have is that in some places the only accepted ID is a driving license (I suppose they would take a passport).

228 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 9:34:04pm

re: #227 Naso Tang

Come on, you know what I said first time. Simplicity and compromise. The checkout person swears they verified ID, and perhaps a camera can verify that if there is an arrest outside the store and let them off the hook, and there are sometimes stings for this.

The only beef I have is that in some places the only accepted ID is a driving license (I suppose they would take a passport).

varies by state law.

In Illinois it has to be a State Issued ID or Passport (I forget about military ID-I haven't been offered one--I'd have to look it up in the little book). If it doesn't have a bar code, I can't accept it.

The scanning thing isn't the law, it is corporate policy. They can collect lots of info from the barcode. I don't think there is any law preventing them from doing so. AS I said, I don't like have to card regular customers and senior citizens. Everybody else I don't mind.

229 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 9:35:16pm

re: #226 freetoken

In the past questions have been raised about how the early forms of Zoroastrianism were influenced by the Judahites that Babylon took from Jerusalem.

The Iron Age religions find their history often in their Bronze Age predecessors too. Many in the Levant regions share the same basic ideas - a pantheon of super-beings (often headed by a numero-uno which in the case of the Canaanites was "El") and so forth.

Also, questions have been raised about Zoroastrianism's influence on early Christianity, via mystery cults in Rome that may have a lineage back to the Persian area.

Interesting history --if you think there is history past 6000 years ago. . .

:0

230 Achilles Tang  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 9:36:12pm

re: #225 ggt

But do you truly believe?

Belief has little to do with it.

Does it feel good?

231 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 9:37:47pm

re: #230 Naso Tang

Belief has little to do with it.

Does it feel good?

HERETIC!

232 laZardo  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 9:39:29pm

re: #215 freetoken

File this one under Probably Important News to which Most Americans Pay No Attention:

Franc plunges as Swiss set euro-franc floor
SNB vows to buy ‘unlimited quantities’ of euros to defend rate

They should've stuck with the gold.

233 freetoken  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 9:40:55pm

Little known factoid which you won't hear in Sunday School:

The first person called "Messiah" by Judaism was a ... Zoroastrian:
[Link: www.biblegateway.com...]

234 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 9:43:09pm

re: #225 ggt

But do you truly believe?

I would, If I could afford a twin turbo RX-7 *_*

235 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 9:43:45pm

re: #212 ggt

It's stupid in many regards.

Regular customers and obviously senior-citizens shouldn't have to show proof of age to buy alcohol.

Every time I get carded, a rarity these days, I usually say something like "You just want to know when it's time to buy me a birthday present, don't you?", or "You just want to make sure I'm 'age-appropriate' to flirt with", depending on who is doing the carding.

236 freetoken  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 9:44:28pm

re: #232 laZardo

They should've stuck with the gold.

Ummm... hate to break this to you, but the Swiss Franc by law has to be backed by gold, though only a small amount.

Unless they've changed that recently - I don't keep up on these things.

237 laZardo  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 9:44:31pm

re: #234 WindUpBird

I would, If I could afford a twin turbo RX-7 *_*

Good luck finding one that hasn't been fast-and-furious'd to death. D:

238 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 9:44:54pm

re: #234 WindUpBird

I would, If I could afford a twin turbo RX-7 *_*

Would it make you feel good?

239 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 9:49:32pm

re: #232 laZardo

re: #233 freetoken

Little known factoid which you won't hear in Sunday School:

The first person called "Messiah" by Judaism was a ... Zoroastrian:
[Link: www.biblegateway.com...]

Magi were too-no?

240 Kragar  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 9:51:08pm

re: #239 ggt

Magi were too-no?

I thought the Magi were those guys who guarded Imhotep's tomb...

241 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 9:52:55pm

re: #240 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I thought the Magi were those guys who guarded Imhotep's tomb...

No, those were Egyptian disciples of the Cat Overlord. Bast, I believe.

242 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 9:54:20pm

Thank Gravel for the pencil!

243 Achilles Tang  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 9:55:46pm

re: #231 ggt

HERETIC!

heretic = other

:=)

244 Kragar  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 9:55:54pm

re: #242 ggt

Thank Gravel for the pencil!

Graphite is Gravel?

245 laZardo  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 9:56:11pm

re: #241 ggt

No, those were Egyptian disciples of the Cat Overlord. Bast, I believe.

:3

246 Kragar  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 9:56:16pm

re: #243 Naso Tang

heretic = other

:=)

Heretic = flammable

247 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 9:58:00pm

re: #243 Naso Tang

heretic = other

:=)

other = double-plus not good

Haven't you been paying attention to the GOP?

/

248 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 10:01:09pm

re: #244 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Graphite is Gravel?

There are aggregate forms of graphite which could mimic Gravel, I suppose. But seriously, I think they would be considered false-gravel and therefore double-plus not good.

249 Kragar  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 10:01:15pm

Well, here is something that you don't see every day:

Man In 'Gumby' Costume Tries To Rob 7-Eleven

Initially, the man in the Gumby costume asked for a pack of cigarettes but then told the clerk, "This is a robbery."

The clerk thought it was a joke and told the man dressed as Gumby, "Come on man, don’t waste my time. I have things to do."

The Gumby impersonator responded that he had a gun and then began fumbling with his costume as if he was trying to pull it out.

The entire incident was caught on the store's surveillance cameras.

"Yeah, it's hilarious to look at it on the video," said San Diego police Detective Gary Hassen. "But, it is a very serious crime and we take it very seriously."

No word on if the man said "I'M GUMBY, DAMMIT" as he ran away.

250 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 10:02:18pm

re: #249 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Well, here is something that you don't see every day:

Man In 'Gumby' Costume Tries To Rob 7-Eleven

No word on if the man said "I'M GUMBY, DAMMIT" as he ran away.

A Gumby-Caper?

251 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 10:07:29pm

re: #249 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Well, here is something that you don't see every day:

Man In 'Gumby' Costume Tries To Rob 7-Eleven

No word on if the man said "I'M GUMBY, DAMMIT" as he ran away.

THat is one for the Pages. THe video is hilarious.

252 laZardo  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 10:09:44pm

Filling out welfare forms*. Currently wondering if requesting for "Medical" means assistance with a current condition or just for affordable health insurance in general.

*nothing I'm ashamed about, everyone's gotta make do etc. only thing I'm fearing is a GOP victory resulting in hack-and-slash cuts ;_;

253 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 10:10:52pm

Imhotep looks like a character from StarGate. (with clothes on)

Those little alien creatures that could beam people from place to place.

254 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 10:11:26pm

re: #252 laZardo

Filling out welfare forms*. Currently wondering if requesting for "Medical" means assistance with a current condition or just for affordable health insurance in general.

*nothing I'm ashamed about, everyone's gotta make do etc. only thing I'm fearing is a GOP victory resulting in hack-and-slash cuts ;_;

say yes and figure it out later.

255 Kragar  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 10:12:46pm

re: #253 ggt

Imhotep looks like a character from StarGate. (with clothes on)

Those little alien creatures that could beam people from place to place.

Now that you mention it...

Image: imhotep1.jpg

256 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 10:14:53pm

re: #255 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Now that you mention it...

Image: imhotep1.jpg

Fortune City?

257 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 10:15:44pm

Compressed 02

I combined everyday soap bubbles with exotic ferrofluid liquid to create an eerie tale, using macro lenses and time lapse techniques. Black ferrofluid and dye race through bubble structures, drawn through by the invisible forces of capillary action and magnetism.

Time-lapse sequences: Nikon D90, Nikkor 60mm macro lens and custom built intervalometer.

258 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 10:16:33pm

re: #249 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Well, here is something that you don't see every day:

Man In 'Gumby' Costume Tries To Rob 7-Eleven

No word on if the man said "I'M GUMBY, DAMMIT" as he ran away.

I worked briefly for 7-11 back in 1975. The job was literally barbaric at times. For example, the place was robbed on one of my nights off. The bandit was described as a bearded white man, approximately 6'3" and wearing a fur-covered Viking style helmet with horns on the side. He was armed with a very modern-looking handgun however. The neo-Viking got away with $27.00 and was never apprehended.

Another time a panic-stricken customer called the police and reported that an insane clerk had chased him into the parking lot with a sword and threatened to cut his head off. The cops were highly skeptical and nothing came of it. Since the statute of limitations has long since expired, I can now confess that the report was true. The sword-wielding clerk was my partner Don (we worked in pairs then). The customer, a well-dressed dweeb, had spat on the door after Don refused to cash a check for him. To my amazement, Don produced a genuine US Army cavalry saber from under the counter and sallied forth, waving the weapon above his head and screaming like a banshee. The uncouth customer fled in some haste. Needless to say, this was against the rules but the management didn't believe it either.
Don lasted a lot longer at 7-11 than I did and eventually became a senior State Department official.

259 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 10:19:08pm

I have to sleep.

I have a full day tomorrow and may not get a nap.

Have a great morning all!

260 Kragar  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 10:20:10pm

Meanwhile...

Youtube Video
261 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 10:33:05pm

re: #248 ggt

"2 I am the Lord your Gravel, who brought you out of the land of moss, out of the house of slippery;

3 you shall have no other stones before me."

262 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 10:39:21pm

Powerful and horrifying, the Japanese victory march from the movie Nanking 1937

Youtube Video
263 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 10:39:23pm

re: #260 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

You playing that yet?

264 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 10:45:50pm

re: #263 Slumbering Behemoth

I still don't have Deus Ex: HR :(

265 Kragar  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 10:48:10pm

re: #263 Slumbering Behemoth

You playing that yet?

Played through the first zone this evening.

266 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 10:55:56pm

re: #264 WindUpBird

I dunno. When I saw one demo, and saw how important/actionable items/paths were so obviously, visibly highlighted, I kinda felt bummed.

I've been playing video games since Pong, and I don't need some Gravel damned developer holding my hand through their fucking game.

I'll still totally rent it, though. Shit, if I didn't have all this stupid muscle pain I'd probably be doing another run through the first Deus Ex.

re: #265 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

What do you think of it so far?

267 Kragar  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 10:59:43pm

re: #266 Slumbering Behemoth

I dunno. When I saw one demo, and saw how important/actionable items/paths were so obviously, visibly highlighted, I kinda felt bummed.

I've been playing video games since Pong, and I don't need some Gravel damned developer holding my hand through their fucking game.

I'll still totally rent it, though. Shit, if I didn't have all this stupid muscle pain I'd probably be doing another run through the first Deus Ex.

re: #265 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

What do you think of it so far?

Pretty fun, definitely has a console feel to it. The switch from ranged to melee combat is very smooth.

268 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 11:04:33pm

re: #267 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

It was kind of a forgone conclusion that I was gonna rent that one, I just wanted to get the low-down from one of our resident 40K fanatics enthusiasts.

It is supposed to be RPGish, isn't it?

269 Kragar  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 11:06:25pm

re: #268 Slumbering Behemoth

It was kind of a forgone conclusion that I was gonna rent that one, I just wanted to get the low-down from one of our resident 40K fanatics enthusiasts.

It is supposed to be RPGish, isn't it?

Not really. Pretty much a standard smash and blast. No role playing or player input to the storyline.

270 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 11:06:31pm

re: #258 Shiplord Kirel

ahahahahahaha holy shit :D

271 Kragar  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 11:32:36pm

re: #268 Slumbering Behemoth

It was kind of a forgone conclusion that I was gonna rent that one, I just wanted to get the low-down from one of our resident 40K fanatics enthusiasts.

It is supposed to be RPGish, isn't it?

same video, plus actual gameplay, ignore the annoying commentary

Youtube Video
272 labman57  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 11:32:40pm

Well, since the tea party's official position is that Obama is a foreign-born, America-hating closet Muslim bent on the destruction of America as we know it, I'm surprised that they would even care whether or not he rebukes comments made by Hoffa.

In any case, Hoffa was talking about "taking them out" via the ballet box. But of course, FOX News deliberately edited out all references to the election as the context of the comments ... for inflammatory effect, of course.

Did he refer to tea party politicians as SOBs? Yes -- harsh, but harmless (unless you're a tad thin-skinned)
How dare Hoffa use such stinging, uncouth terms and vulgar visualizations to describe the tea party politicians!
Who does he think he is ... a tea party pundit?

Remember:
Angry, harsh-speaking union leader = goon
Angry, harsh-speaking tea party leader = patriot

273 Varek Raith  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 11:35:46pm

re: #258 Shiplord Kirel

I worked briefly for 7-11 back in 1975. The job was literally barbaric at times. For example, the place was robbed on one of my nights off. The bandit was described as a bearded white man, approximately 6'3" and wearing a fur-covered Viking style helmet with horns on the side. He was armed with a very modern-looking handgun however. The neo-Viking got away with $27.00 and was never apprehended.

Another time a panic-stricken customer called the police and reported that an insane clerk had chased him into the parking lot with a sword and threatened to cut his head off. The cops were highly skeptical and nothing came of it. Since the statute of limitations has long since expired, I can now confess that the report was true. The sword-wielding clerk was my partner Don (we worked in pairs then). The customer, a well-dressed dweeb, had spat on the door after Don refused to cash a check for him. To my amazement, Don produced a genuine US Army cavalry saber from under the counter and sallied forth, waving the weapon above his head and screaming like a banshee. The uncouth customer fled in some haste. Needless to say, this was against the rules but the management didn't believe it either.
Don lasted a lot longer at 7-11 than I did and eventually became a senior State Department official.

RAAAGGGEEEWAAARRR!!!!

274 MittDoesNotCompute  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 11:39:16pm

re: #258 Shiplord Kirel

I worked briefly for 7-11 back in 1975. The job was literally barbaric at times. For example, the place was robbed on one of my nights off. The bandit was described as a bearded white man, approximately 6'3" and wearing a fur-covered Viking style helmet with horns on the side. He was armed with a very modern-looking handgun however. The neo-Viking got away with $27.00 and was never apprehended.

Another time a panic-stricken customer called the police and reported that an insane clerk had chased him into the parking lot with a sword and threatened to cut his head off. The cops were highly skeptical and nothing came of it. Since the statute of limitations has long since expired, I can now confess that the report was true. The sword-wielding clerk was my partner Don (we worked in pairs then). The customer, a well-dressed dweeb, had spat on the door after Don refused to cash a check for him. To my amazement, Don produced a genuine US Army cavalry saber from under the counter and sallied forth, waving the weapon above his head and screaming like a banshee. The uncouth customer fled in some haste. Needless to say, this was against the rules but the management didn't believe it either.
Don lasted a lot longer at 7-11 than I did and eventually became a senior State Department official.

Badass...

275 freetoken  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 12:25:26am
MP3 Audio
276 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 12:28:30am

re: #249 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Well, here is something that you don't see every day:

Man In 'Gumby' Costume Tries To Rob 7-Eleven

No word on if the man said "I'M GUMBY, DAMMIT" as he ran away.

Eddie Murphy was unavailable for comment

[Link: www.joblo.com...]

277 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 12:30:17am

re: #271 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

same video, plus actual gameplay, ignore the annoying commentary

[Video]

I should have heeded that warning.

"Yeah, Space Marines, all forty-thousand of them".

I'm not a super-fan, but even I know "40K" refers to a period in time, not the number SMs.
/nerd cred, rising

Looks like fun, though.

278 freetoken  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:03:36am

The Peanuts!

MP3 Audio
279 freetoken  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:04:14am

I think I should do a Pages Poll on whether or not it's too early to play Christmas music...

280 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:07:40am

re: #279 freetoken

I think I should do a Pages Poll on whether or not it's too early to play Christmas music...

One mans opinion

NO Christmas music, sales and/ or decorations should be allowed until after Halloween AT THE EARLIEST

((and if I were King of The World, it wouldn't be till the day after Thanksgiving))

281 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:11:08am

re: #279 freetoken

I think I should do a Pages Poll on whether or not it's too early to play Christmas music...

I will punch you in the soul if you start with Xmas music now.

282 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:12:59am

re: #280 sattv4u2

By the by, I talked to a friend of mine about the muscle pain I'm having, and he said the same thing you did. Pinched nerve, from experience.

I hate both of you now.
/

283 engineer cat  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:15:25am

Hollywood version of Mourning Becomes Electra on TCM

AVOID

284 Targetpractice  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:15:30am

re: #279 freetoken

I think I should do a Pages Poll on whether or not it's too early to play Christmas music...

Any Christmas music earlier that Black Friday should be grounds for breaking on the rack.

285 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:17:31am

re: #282 Slumbering Behemoth

By the by, I talked to a friend of mine about the muscle pain I'm having, and he said the same thing you did. Pinched nerve, from experience.

I hate both of you now.
/

for me, the 1st step was the dr. gave me a muscle relaxant, and pain med (which I really didn't use) and most important a steroid z-pack

2nd step, I'm now seeing a chiropractor

Just over 2 weeks from seeing the doctor, I'm feeling at LEAST 75% better

286 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:24:32am

re: #285 sattv4u2

Taken under advisement. I'd still rather visit a masseuse first. And not the "happy ending" kind.

287 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:31:38am

Got yer fucking christmas song right here!

Youtube Video
288 engineer cat  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:38:39am

re: #287 Slumbering Behemoth

Got yer fucking christmas song right here!

[Video]

if you kids don't play nice i'll play the lennon sisters chrissmass medly from the lawrence welk show

289 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:43:29am

re: #288 engineer dog

I will punch you in your soul as well. Don't think I won't.

Heh, g'nite y'all.

290 researchok  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 2:23:24am

Morning, all

291 researchok  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 2:25:13am

re: #279 freetoken

I think I should do a Pages Poll on whether or not it's too early to play Christmas music...

It's good you are an atheist (?)

There is a special place in Hell for people who play Christmas music way to early.....
//

292 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 2:48:06am

Speaking of Hell; Burning Man is this week.

Want to know what Hell is for FBV? Probably not, so I'll tell you.

Stuck out in the desert with a bunch of bohemians/hippies.

"Man, I could've been at a barbecue. And what in the hell is that smell!"
-Captain Steven Hiller

Ugh... the smell.

293 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 2:49:26am

re: #292 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Oh. It ended on the fifth.

So solly.

I'll bet the desert still stinks.

294 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 2:51:00am

re: #293 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Oh. It ended on the fifth.

So solly.

I'll bet the desert still stinks.

You been drinking a fifth!?!?

295 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 2:53:41am

re: #294 sattv4u2

You are suchadork.

296 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 2:55:58am

:)

One that has the long quiet drive home beckoning

Toodles

297 RogueOne  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 3:07:33am

Good morning people!

298 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 3:27:46am

re: #297 RogueOne

I think that's "person".

299 AK-47%  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 3:35:20am

sixteen persons

300 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 3:38:19am

It's been a while but Drudge is linking to Alex Jones again: 10 Facts That Prove Big Sis Is Wrong, Drudge Is Right

301 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 3:42:57am

re: #300 Killgore Trout

I never got the "big sis" thing that Matt does with her.

302 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 3:44:18am

re: #301 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I never got the "big sis" thing that Matt does with her.

He stole it from Alex Jones, it's a play on Big Brother.

303 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 3:51:01am

re: #302 Killgore Trout

Oh, I know the "Big Brother" angle. Just don't get it with her. Never heard Tom Ridge, Chertoff or the other guy.

So why her?

But OH MY GOD! LOOK UP JANET ON WIKI RIGHT NOW.

Someone's been using Wiki's editing feature in a particularly evil way.

Screen shoot it if you know how... I'm guessing it'll change as soon as someone at Wikipedia wakes up.

304 RogueOne  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 3:54:15am

re: #303 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

HaHaHa!

305 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 3:55:27am

re: #304 RogueOne

I'm trying not to laugh, but catch myself snickering at it.

306 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 4:07:28am

re: #303 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Aren't there some Wikipedia pages that could/should be locked from editing?

307 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 4:07:37am

Morning Honcos.

308 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 4:11:23am

re: #307 Cannadian Club Akbar

Hey, bud.

309 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 4:12:45am

re: #308 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Hey, bud.

That Wiki pic looks like Charles Krauthhammer in drag.

310 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 4:15:50am

re: #309 Cannadian Club Akbar

That's mean too, but I laughed.

311 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 4:19:49am

WTF? Is this true?
[Link: www.washingtontimes.com...]

312 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 4:21:31am

re: #311 Cannadian Club Akbar

WTF? Is this true?
[Link: www.washingtontimes.com...]

It's from Washington Times.

313 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 4:22:19am

re: #312 Alouette

It's from Washington Times.

OK. Not sure about them, but I do know Micheal Moore is a douche.

314 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 4:32:10am

Survey Shows Link Between Trusting Fox, Negative Views About American Muslims

Nearly 7-in-10 Americans who say they most trust Fox News say that discrimination against whites has become as big a problem as discrimination against blacks and other minorities. In stark contrast, less than 1-in-4 Americans who most trust public television for their news agree.

Approximately two-thirds of Republicans, Americans who identify with the Tea Party movement, and Americans who most trust Fox News agree that the values of Islam are at odds with American values. A majority of Democrats, Independents, and those who most trust CNN or public television disagree.

Nearly 6-in-10 Republicans who most trust Fox News believe that American Muslims are trying to establish Shari’a law in the U.S. The attitudes of Republicans who most trust other news sources look similar to the general population.

315 Shropshire_Slasher  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 4:36:04am

Just started playing Dead Island, love it, very violent, can't wait to kick the kids outta the media room when I get home!

316 Shropshire_Slasher  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 4:38:44am

Heh, what's your favorite zombie?
[Link: mrctv.org...]
Bachmann is mine.

317 iossarian  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 4:41:01am

re: #314 Varek Raith

Survey Shows Link Between Trusting Fox, Negative Views About American Muslims

Ah, the tasty tang of white male victimhood.

318 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 4:49:08am

re: #317 iossarian

Ah, the tasty tang of white male victimhood.

Help, help I'm being repressed!

319 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 4:52:33am

I'm supposed to work today but it's gonna be raining all day long, on and off. Well, if this craps out there is always tomorrow.

320 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 4:57:00am

A FB friend of mine already fixed Janet's Wiki page.

321 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 5:00:15am

re: #320 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

A FB friend of mine already fixed Janet's Wiki page.

Does your FB friend have special access or can anyone do it?

322 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 5:01:24am

10 days and I still do not have Adobe WP on my workstation! Now they are saying it's not a standard corporate load and do I have the original CD? No I do not, it was installed on my PC when I started working here!

Fucking corporate procurement.

323 Shropshire_Slasher  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 5:05:21am

Anybody see the new Kia car commercial? Why would an obese hamster make me wanna buy a car?

324 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 5:05:56am

re: #321 Cannadian Club Akbar

I think anyone can. General Wiki access (I think) is only blocked on selected pages.

I think stuff like that supports the left's opinion that people on the right are assholes; The right needs to stop fucking around with mean, spiteful shit like that.

I am considering shutting down any political opinion at all and ignoring the whole fucking mess.

325 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 5:06:55am

re: #323 Shropshire_Slasher

"Obese Hamster" would be a cool name for a rock band.

326 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 5:07:37am

re: #324 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I think anyone can. General Wiki access (I think) is only blocked on selected pages.

I think stuff like that supports the left's opinion that people on the right are assholes; The right needs to stop fucking around with mean, spiteful shit like that.

Considering shutting down any political opinion at all and ignoring the whole fucking mess.

What'd I miss?

327 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 5:08:08am

re: #323 Shropshire_Slasher

Anybody see the new Kia car commercial? Why would an obese hamster make me wanna buy a car?

I hate that commercial, but I would love to buy a Soul. Those are neat.

328 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 5:08:58am

re: #326 Varek Raith

Some asshole put Charles Krauthammer's picture on Janet Nap's Wiki page.

329 Shropshire_Slasher  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 5:11:42am

re: #327 Cannadian Club Akbar

I'm partial to the Nissan Cube.

330 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 5:12:44am

re: #328 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Some asshole put Charles Krauthammer's picture on Janet Nap's Wiki page.

Got it.
I'm amazed at the lengths some go to in vandalizing a freaking bio on a reference site.
Sheesh.
Ninja edit!

331 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 5:15:41am

I'm getting really, really, really tired of sending out resumes. Can one of ya'll loan me 200K?

332 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 5:16:30am

re: #331 Cannadian Club Akbar

I'm getting really, really, really tired of sending out resumes. Can one of ya'll loan me 200K?

Do you want to work at a call center?

333 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 5:16:53am

Headline should read, "What an asshole!"

I think 20 years'll cure him.

334 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 5:17:20am

re: #332 Alouette

Do you want to work at a call center?

Do I have to move to India and work for Dell?
/half

335 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 5:18:20am

re: #333 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Headline should read, "What an asshole!"

I think 20 years'll cure him.

That press release is from 2 and a half years ago.

336 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 5:18:49am

re: #334 Cannadian Club Akbar

Do I have to move to India and work for Dell?
/half

No, but you have to move to Detroit and work for a major automotive company.

337 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 5:19:14am

Oh wait, they have a call center in Florida too!

338 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 5:20:54am

re: #335 Alouette

Well, crap. Someone linked it on FB... I thought it was awesome. Didn't even look at the date.

You guys are your "vetting" abilities.

I need to check out of the ethers alltogether. I'm just not good at it.

339 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 5:22:20am

re: #338 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Well, crap. Someone linked it on FB... I thought it was awesome. Didn't even look at the date.

You guys are your "vetting" abilities.

I need to check out of the ethers alltogether. I'm just not good at it.

Did you see my FB post where I mentioned the fact that we got rid of the Pony Express?
///

340 iossarian  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 5:22:20am

re: #338 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Well, crap. Someone linked it on FB... I thought it was awesome. Didn't even look at the date.

You guys are your "vetting" abilities.

I need to check out of the ethers alltogether. I'm just not good at it.

Please stay. Here, have a virtual slice of cake.

341 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 5:22:33am

re: #338 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Well, crap. Someone linked it on FB... I thought it was awesome. Didn't even look at the date.

You guys are your "vetting" abilities.

I need to check out of the ethers alltogether. I'm just not good at it.

He got two and a half years.

342 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 5:23:01am

re: #341 Varek Raith

He got two and a half years.

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

343 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 5:24:39am

re: #341 Varek Raith

He got two and a half years.

So that means he's back out now.

344 iossarian  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 5:29:02am

re: #343 Alouette

So that means he's back out now.

I'm sure this is pure coincidence:

[Link: tech.slashdot.org...]

345 Eventual Carrion  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 5:29:32am

re: #126 albusteve

regardless of funding capers, the feds need to jump into these fires across the west...without them it's hopeless...the Wallow fire over in AZ earlier had over 5k fighters on the line...this shit gets very serious...regardless I'm skeptical of Perry's drift here

As for me. I gave some of that money to the feds that he is asking for. My vote is to tell him to fuck off.

346 ThomasLite  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 5:32:16am

re: #311 Cannadian Club Akbar

WTF? Is this true?
[Link: www.washingtontimes.com...]

[Link: www.mehrnews.com...]

mehrnews is an Iranian news agency; I couldn't find anything to the contrary and it rather fits the obnoxious little fellow.
so *despite* this being the washington times, I'd say it's true.

347 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 5:35:46am

re: #346 ThomasLite

[Link: www.mehrnews.com...]

mehrnews is an Iranian news agency; I couldn't find anything to the contrary and it rather fits the obnoxious little fellow.
so *despite* this being the washington times, I'd say it's true.

I love how Micheal More hates capitalism but uses it to get out the word that he hates capitalism.

348 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 5:39:47am

re: #346 ThomasLite

[Link: www.mehrnews.com...]

mehrnews is an Iranian news agency; I couldn't find anything to the contrary and it rather fits the obnoxious little fellow.
so *despite* this being the washington times, I'd say it's true.

Seriously?
I mean, you think an Iranian news agency is credible?
And the Washington Times is World Net Derpy in print form.

349 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 5:40:58am

re: #348 Varek Raith

Seriously?
I mean, you think an Iranian news agency is credible?
And the Washington Times is World Net Derpy in print form.

True, but Mike does love dictators.

350 iossarian  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 5:41:30am

re: #346 ThomasLite

[Link: www.mehrnews.com...]

mehrnews is an Iranian news agency; I couldn't find anything to the contrary and it rather fits the obnoxious little fellow.
so *despite* this being the washington times, I'd say it's true.

I would put a hold on that. It might be true, but even the original source admits that they've claimed he was coming in the past and he hasn't showed up.

Plus the "he hates America and we do too" quote is obviously from the source, not Moore.

351 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 5:41:39am

re: #347 Cannadian Club Akbar

I love how Micheal More hates capitalism but uses it to get out the word that he hates capitalism.

Sort of like how the GOP hates government and then uses it...

Good morning Lizards!

Another rainy morning here in western NY state. Drinking coffee, reading the local paper, and thinking about the route I'll take driving down to Pittsburgh this afternoon.

352 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 5:44:12am

Morning Lizardim. Hope everyone's Labor Day weekend was uneventful. What all did I miss here aboard this island of sanity in a world going rapidly off the deep end?

353 iossarian  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 5:45:38am

Oh, that bad, bad Michael Moore person. He tolerates the wrong dictators, and doesn't like the right ones!

Everything he does to highlight the erosion of middle-class life in America can now be safely ignored.

354 Targetpractice  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 5:47:53am

re: #352 thedopefishlives

Morning Lizardim. Hope everyone's Labor Day weekend was uneventful. What all did I miss here aboard this island of sanity in a world going rapidly off the deep end?

Romney released his plan to fix the economy, followed shortly thereafter by accusations from former-president Bush that Mittens had copied off his crib sheet.

355 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 5:48:31am

re: #353 iossarian

Oh, that bad, bad Michael Moore person. He tolerates the wrong dictators, and doesn't like the right ones!

Everything he does to highlight the erosion of middle-class life in America can now be safely ignored.

Yes. And he uses facts as he sees them.

356 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 5:48:33am

re: #353 iossarian

Oh, that bad, bad Michael Moore person. He tolerates the wrong dictators, and doesn't like the right ones!

Everything he does to highlight the erosion of middle-class life in America can now be safely ignored.

Tell me what that fat shmuck billionaire has ever done for middle class America other than hoist himself out of it with a truck winch? He is the Rush Limbaugh of the Left.

357 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 5:49:52am

re: #356 Alouette

Tell me what that fat shmuck billionaire has ever done for middle class America other than hoist himself out of it with a truck winch? He is the Rush Limbaugh of the Left.

I remember when he opened a bank account and got a free rifle. I think that scene was done after 3 takes.

358 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 5:54:10am

re: #357 Cannadian Club Akbar

I remember when he opened a bank account and got a free rifle. I think that scene was done after 3 takes.

Pick a link, win a prize.
[Link: www.google.com...]

359 iossarian  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 5:57:10am

re: #356 Alouette

Tell me what that fat shmuck billionaire has ever done for middle class America other than hoist himself out of it with a truck winch? He is the Rush Limbaugh of the Left.

Two points:

One, in our current society, making a shit-ton of money of itself does not make you a good or bad person. Now I would say that this is a problem with society (specifically with the way that existing wealth confers the ability to accumulate more), but that's a different question. So let's leave out the "he made a bunch of money and that means he can't truthfully represent the middle/working class" argument.

Two, "the Rush Limbaugh of the Left" is quite possibly true depending on the extent to which you think the two of them distort the "truth". For me, whether people do so or not is actually not a big problem, since virtually no-one can agree on what the "truth" is anyway. What is a problem is what your overall goal is. For Limbaugh, I believe his goal is to assist people in perpetuating inequality and bigotry. For Moore, I believe his goal is roughly the opposite.

I find it fascinating that people who might claim to care about entrenched injustice and inequality spend their time complaining about Moore.

360 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 6:05:42am

re: #354 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Romney released his plan to fix the economy, followed shortly thereafter by accusations from former-president Bush that Mittens had copied off his crib sheet.

Then did they go out to the playground at recess and get in a fight and get sent to the principal's office?

361 iossarian  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 6:06:41am

PS: It is supremely ironic that our argument over whether Moore tells the "truth" is motivated by an Iranian news agency release that has been breathlessly picked up by the Washington Times.

362 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 6:10:17am

re: #361 iossarian

PS: It is supremely ironic that we our argument over whether Moore tells the "truth" is motivated by an Iranian news agency release that has been breathlessly picked up by the Washington Times.

Well, spend a little time upthread and see my post where I asked if the Washington Times story was true.

363 BongCrodny  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 6:13:03am

re: #359 iossarian

Two points:

One, in our current society, making a shit-ton of money of itself does not make you a good or bad person. Now I would say that this is a problem with society (specifically with the way that existing wealth confers the ability to accumulate more), but that's a different question. So let's leave out the "he made a bunch of money and that means he can't truthfully represent the middle/working class" argument.

Two, "the Rush Limbaugh of the Left" is quite possibly true depending on the extent to which you think the two of them distort the "truth". For me, whether people do so or not is actually not a big problem, since virtually no-one can agree on what the "truth" is anyway. What is a problem is what your overall goal is. For Limbaugh, I believe his goal is to assist people in perpetuating inequality and bigotry. For Moore, I believe his goal is roughly the opposite.

I find it fascinating that people who might claim to care about entrenched injustice and inequality spend their time complaining about Moore.

Maybe the Left/Labor could use a better spokesperson than Michael Moore, someone pure as the driven snow.

The front page of Moore's website has a *ton* of stories praising labor.

I worked for 30 years in this country, and I'm having the same problems finding a job that any number of people are also having.

Moore will never be my choice for "Saint of the Year," but I'm glad there's *someone* out there doing what he's doing.

364 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 6:13:37am

This guy needs a samich!!!
[Link: new.music.yahoo.com...]

365 iossarian  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 6:16:43am

re: #362 Cannadian Club Akbar

Well, spend a little time upthread and see my post where I asked if the Washington Times story was true.

I saw that and I approve. I note, again, that the news agency release itself notes that the Iranian government sources made similar claims in 2007 and 2008, which turned out to be false*.

But people want to believe bad things about Moore, for some reason.

*Obviously, it's not inconceivable that they might turn out to be true this time, but it is somewhat unlikely.

366 BongCrodny  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 6:20:41am

re: #362 Cannadian Club Akbar

Well, spend a little time upthread and see my post where I asked if the Washington Times story was true.

It's very possible Moore could be going to Iran. So far, however, the only folks reporting on this (Google search for "Michael Moore Iran Trip") are hard right sites.

367 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 6:21:50am

re: #365 iossarian

But people want to believe bad things about Moore, for some reason.

Well, to abuse the comparison to Rush Limbaugh, he is obnoxious, and overly theatrical (basically drumming up drama for ratings), and it's more than a bit ironic that he uses the very capitalist system he decries to earn his success. It makes it easy to hate him.

368 RogueOne  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 6:24:30am

Wasn't it Michael Moore who said his biggest regret was he didn't get to pork Che Guevera?

369 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 6:31:15am

re: #368 RogueOne

Wasn't it Michael Moore who said his biggest regret was he didn't get to pork Che Guevera?

I never heard that but I think the CIA fucked Che first.

370 iossarian  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 6:31:39am

re: #367 thedopefishlives

Well, to abuse the comparison to Rush Limbaugh, he is obnoxious, and overly theatrical (basically drumming up drama for ratings), and it's more than a bit ironic that he uses the very capitalist system he decries to earn his success. It makes it easy to hate him.

I see what you mean, but I think that to hate Moore for this requires the assumption that he is in it for the money, which I don't happen to believe to be the case.

I think, for example, that he would be a supporter of higher taxes to redistribute the fruits of his "success".

For me it boils down to whose side people are on. Of course there is more than one fight, so people can be for you and against you at the same time in different arenas. I believe that Moore would be on my side in *most* of the issues I think are important, and certainly a hell of a lot more of the time than Limbaugh.

371 Gus  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 6:33:14am

Beware of the wingnut Koolaid for it is strong. Especially in the coming days on the heels of the 10th anniversary of the WTC attacks.

'Morning.

372 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 6:34:38am

re: #371 Gus 802

Beware of the wingnut Koolaid for it is strong. Especially in the coming days on the eve of the 10th anniversary of the WTC attacks.

'Morning.

Add fuel to the fire with the release of Flight 93 footage that is new and has been going around.

373 RogueOne  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 6:35:32am

re: #369 Cannadian Club Akbar

I never heard that but I think the CIA fucked Che first.

Google says it was Jane Fonda who said it. I'm always getting those two mixed up.

374 Gus  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 6:35:33am

re: #372 Cannadian Club Akbar

Add fuel to the fire with the release of Flight 93 footage that is new and has been going around.

Where's that at? I'm curious now and I have a strong stomach.

375 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 6:37:50am

This thunder sounds really strange. Like it has too much reverb or something.

376 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 6:38:46am

re: #375 Varek Raith

This thunder sounds really strange. Like it has too much reverb or something.

Yeah, that was me testing the lizardoid weather control device. Guess I better get the circuit analyzer out.

377 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 6:39:46am

re: #374 Gus 802

Where's that at? I'm curious now and I have a strong stomach.

It was a headline on AOL the other day. Prolly from Huffpo. I don't have time to look now because I get to go work in the rain. Yippee!! See ya'll tonight.

378 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 6:41:06am

re: #372 Cannadian Club Akbar

A bunch of new video has been released in recent weeks re: 9/11, including FEMA video from Ground Zero searches immediately following the collapsed towers and the video after Flight 93 crashed in Shanksville, PA.

And on cue, we get a resurgence of 9/11 trooferism to boot (as per the pages).

379 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 6:41:13am

re: #374 Gus 802

Where's that at? I'm curious now and I have a strong stomach.

Youtube Video
380 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 6:41:49am

re: #365 iossarian

I saw that and I approve. I note, again, that the news agency release itself notes that the Iranian government sources made similar claims in 2007 and 2008, which turned out to be false*.

But people want to believe bad things about Moore, for some reason.

*Obviously, it's not inconceivable that they might turn out to be true this time, but it is somewhat unlikely.

People want to believe bad things about Michael Moore because he has proven to be a flat-out liar. His Academy Award for "Bowling For Columbine" should have been for propaganda rather than documentary. In that film he lied about the NRA repeatedly, both in the circumstances of its founding and in timing and nature of its meetings. Moore cut separate clips of Charlton Heston together to make it seem as if he had done his "From My Cold Dead Hands!" line in Denver after the Columbine shootings, when Heston has not in fact done so.

381 Gus  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 6:42:39am

re: #379 Varek Raith

[Video]

Thanks. I had already found it. Not much to see there other than a plume of smoke. I say that only because I was thinking perhaps the new footage could quell some of the lingering conspiracy theories.

382 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 6:44:17am

re: #378 lawhawk

A bunch of new video has been released in recent weeks re: 9/11, including FEMA video from Ground Zero searches immediately following the collapsed towers and the video after Flight 93 crashed in Shanksville, PA.

And on cue, we get a resurgence of 9/11 trooferism to boot (as per the pages).

That was as predictable as the sunrise. Any new footage gets the Troofer Monkeys howling, rattling their cages and flinging poo. I expect Andrew Napolitano to produce a memorable Troofer DERP! before the week is out.

383 Gus  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 6:46:00am

Oh look! Rick Perry is winning my poll. I wonder how that happened?

//

384 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 6:46:10am

re: #381 Gus 802

I say that only because I was thinking perhaps the new footage could quell some of the lingering conspiracy theories.

As if. They haven't come up with any semblance of a solid theory in the last 10 years. They keep trying to push the controlled-demolition theory via Professor Jones's "peer-reviewed" paper, but that thing was reviewed about as thoroughly as Roy Spencer's anti-climate change paper and is even less grounded in fact (if that were possible).

385 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 6:46:27am

re: #381 Gus 802

Hardly likely. Despite multiple videos and photos showing the planes striking the WTC, there are some conspiracy theories that think they were guided missiles, that the passengers weren't really on board, or that the towers came down in a controlled demolition, and don't even get me started with the craziness about 7WTC (where the real loonies lunch on conspiracy madness).

Heck, the conspiracists had a field day with the Pentagon attack until video was released from a parking lot camera showing the plane hitting.

Oh, and for the record - the Pentagon section struck by the plane collapsed far sooner after the plane strike than the WTC Tower 1 or 2 did despite the massive and fatal damage.

But we all know that fire doesn't melt steel. /

386 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 6:47:58am

re: #381 Gus 802

Thanks. I had already found it. Not much to see there other than a plume of smoke. I say that only because I was thinking perhaps the new footage could quell some of the lingering conspiracy theories.

You can clearly see the grassy knoll in that vid.

387 Gus  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 6:49:04am

re: #384 thedopefishlives

re: #385 lawhawk

I know. I was reminded of that while reading some of the comments at this video:

Building 7 Explained

Youtube Video

Truthers are psychotic.

388 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 6:50:38am

re: #387 Gus 802

re: #385 lawhawk

I know. I was reminded of that while reading some of the comments at this video:

Building 7 Explained

[Video]Truthers are psychotic.

It got hit by a freaking 110 story building as it came down.
Next!

389 Gus  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 6:51:29am

re: #386 Varek Raith

You can clearly see the grassy knoll in that vid.

CGI! CGI! CGI!

Gasp. The other day I watched the start of the "debate" between Dylan Avery and that other guy with the two guys from Popular Mechanics. Oh and get this. News Corp owned Hulu has been playing "Loose Change" for the past few weeks for 9/11. It's kind of popular over there.

I hate conspiracy theorists. All of them -- left wing or right wing.

390 iossarian  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 6:52:59am

re: #380 Dark_Falcon

The NRA never lies, of course:

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

Choice quote:

The NRA, however, simply dismisses Obama's stated position as "rhetoric" and substitutes its own interpretation of his record as a secret "plan." Said an NRA spokesman: "We believe our facts."

391 Gus  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 6:53:20am

re: #388 Varek Raith

It got hit by a freaking 110 story building as it came down.
Next!

Right. That and it was on fire for 7 hours. Uncontrolled. With a dead sprinkler system and a diesel fuel that was burning in the basement. Fire may not melt steel but it certainly bends it and weakens it. Then you have the weakened connection which are either weld points or fastner points such as bolts.

392 RogueOne  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 6:53:55am

re: #383 Gus 802

Oh look! Rick Perry is winning my poll. I wonder how that happened?

//

You forgot to add the choice of "Neither".

393 Gus  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 6:54:21am

re: #392 RogueOne

You forgot to add the choice of "Neither".

That's done by not voting.

394 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 6:54:47am

re: #392 RogueOne

You forgot to add the choice of "Neither".

RON PAUL!

395 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 6:55:42am

Oh and joy of joys... it's still raining in the NYC metro area - so we've got more flooding on tap. Brilliant.

396 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 6:56:06am

Hello from SoCal.
Just got a minute before I commute to work.

The results or my LGF affiliation poll seem to be in. First, what a cool feature. Given the number of registered Lizards that likely have had the chance to see it, I'll describe the voting results as light but enough to be worth evaluating. 254 views, about average for a featured page.

54 votes are in. Ten Republicans stepped up to vote. 22 Democrats, so an interesting ratio there. 14 Indy's including yours truly, laughably a near split between the Republicans and Democrats. Eight votes for "other", which may have included greens, perhaps a modern whig, and maybe one "foreign commie". My bad to have omitted them and lumped them under "other". :-)

I suspect but have not demonstrated the Indy's lean left or right. If they split like the big parties this site could really be properly described as left leaning, anti idiotarian. And a very worthwhile site to spend some internet time. A moderate and well moderated place.

On Rush L and Michael Moore
IMO the two men share this much and it's utterly contemptible.

I refer to the fact that each has a career that depends on exposing and amplifying the partisan tensions that exist between us Americans. They enrich themselves at our collective expense by adding to the problem whilst pretending to be solving problems. I wish them both a sudden end to their public presence and all the health and well being they have earned out of public view.

397 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 6:56:24am

re: #391 Gus 802

Logic? You attempt to use puny logic against my superior derp?! /troofer

398 mr.fusion  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 6:56:45am

Just got an email from Reince Preibus:

"...They got a war with us and there's only going to be one winner ... We're going to win that war...

President Obama, this is your army! We are ready to march. Let's take these son of a bitches out and give America back to an America where we belong." -- Teamster President, Jimmy Hoffa Jr.

Dear Friend,

This is how Teamster's chief-thug Jimmy Hoffa, Jr. introduced Obama to the assembled Big Labor forces in Michigan yesterday -- vile rhetoric that seems more befitting of Red Square.

Will Barack Obama condemn this rabid vitriol? Debbie Wasserman Schultz and the DNC declined to condemn this violent class warfare diatribe. Where are the Democrat leaders in Congress? Nowhere! The veil of hypocrisy has finally fallen for all to see. The Democrats do not offer "Hope & Change" -- only hate and greed.

Enough is enough! America can't afford any more of Barack Obama and the leftist Democrats' extremist agenda. We must stop them.

Please help the Republican Party fight Barack Obama's campaign of hate and greed -- let's make him a one-term president and end his disastrous prosperity-killing policies -- make a contribution of $25, $50, $100 or more to the RNC today. Thank you.

399 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 6:57:17am

re: #391 Gus 802

Right. That and it was on fire for 7 hours. Uncontrolled. With a dead sprinkler system and a diesel fuel that was burning in the basement. Fire may not melt steel but it certainly bends it and weakens it. Then you have the weakened connection which are either weld points or fastner points such as bolts.

Steel doesn't weaken from fire, the heat is evenly distributed instantaneously via FM: F---ing Magic. Therefore, your argument is invalid. NEXT!

400 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 6:57:18am

re: #395 lawhawk

Oh and joy of joys... it's still raining in the NYC metro area - so we've got more flooding on tap. Brilliant.

Rick Perry's prayer coven is working on their targeting inputs.

401 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 6:57:58am

re: #398 mr.fusion

Bogus talking point to get the donations rolling. Welcome to the wonderful world of American politics. SS/DD.

402 Gus  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 6:58:17am

re: #395 lawhawk

Oh and joy of joys... it's still raining in the NYC metro area - so we've got more flooding on tap. Brilliant.

God was always a poor planner.

//

403 RogueOne  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 6:59:20am

re: #393 Gus 802

That's done by not voting.

I'm voting but I'm hoping to have better choices. I can't vote for Perry and I won't vote for Obama. I was having the same problem with the vote for IN governor but luckily it looks like I'll have someone to vote for:

Go Rupert!
[Link: www.latimes.com...]

404 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 6:59:51am

re: #390 iossarian

The NRA never lies, of course:

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

Choice quote:

They're coming to take our guns, ha-haaa!
They're coming to take our guns, ho-ho, hee-hee, ha-haaa!

405 Gus  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:00:02am

re: #399 thedopefishlives

Steel doesn't weaken from fire, the heat is evenly distributed instantaneously via FM: F---ing Magic. Therefore, your argument is invalid. NEXT!

We have engineers, architects and sous chefs on our side!

406 iossarian  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:01:27am

re: #396 Rightwingconspirator

I refer to the fact that each has a career that depends on exposing and amplifying the partisan tensions that exist between us Americans. They enrich themselves at our collective expense by adding to the problem whilst pretending to be solving problems.

I don't see how one can justify that kind of cynicism about Moore, though. I mean, do you honestly believe that he would be unhappy if, say, the US instituted single-payer healthcare, and he became less rich as a result due to increased taxation?

407 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:01:51am

re: #405 Gus 802

We have engineers, architects and sous chefs on our side!

I always laugh whenever a Twoofer trots out the old "3000 architects and engineers" canard as if it's something meaningful. They should really check that list and see how many are actual high-rise architects and engineers. I'm betting it's a nice, round number. Like zero.

408 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:02:04am

re: #403 RogueOne

I'm voting but I'm hoping to have better choices. I can't vote for Perry and I won't vote for Obama. I was having the same problem with the vote for IN governor but luckily it looks like I'll have someone to vote for:

Go Rupert!
[Link: www.latimes.com...]

On this astral plane, if you can't vote for one, and won't vote for the other, you're not voting--just taking a pleasant stroll down to the schoolhouse.

409 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:02:09am

re: #390 iossarian

The NRA never lies, of course:

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

Choice quote:

"You cannot excuse bad behavior by pointing to other bad behavior"

- Bill O'Reilly

Yes he works for Fox, but that line is very well stated and true.

410 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:02:47am

re: #400 Decatur Deb

Awww.. they're only off by about 1,500 miles at this point. Heck, they couldn't even get Lee to shift 100 miles when it was in the Gulf. So much for the prayers for rain. Heck, they could have done a rain dance, gotten Jessica Beals to do that infamouse flashdance routine, and Cheech and Chong to send up smoke signals, but nothing is changing the fact that Texas is hard in the grips of a brutal drought.

411 RogueOne  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:04:21am

re: #408 Decatur Deb

On this astral plane, if you can't vote for one, and won't vote for the other, you're not voting--just taking a pleasant stroll down to the schoolhouse.

Around here it's a church, I go to church every two years for about 10 minutes. I feel confident that's enough to get me into heaven.

If I can't vote for someone then at least I can vote against them by picking a 3rd party candidate. It might be a wasted vote but it makes me feel better.

412 Bulworth  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:04:52am

These reichwingers talk about "violence" and "thuggery" as if they think they are bad things. And besides, they're the ones with all the guns, warning us of "second amendment solutions".

413 Gus  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:05:18am

re: #407 thedopefishlives

I always laugh whenever a Twoofer trots out the old "3000 architects and engineers" canard as if it's something meaningful. They should really check that list and see how many are actual high-rise architects and engineers. I'm betting it's a nice, round number. Like zero.

Many probably didn't even know what they were signing onto. Some were probably put on that list without any knowledge. Then you have the fact that yes, there are plenty of stupid architects and engineers out there. Another thing is the people that get degrees in either architecture or engineering but have never practiced either nor are licensed. Becoming an architect or engineer does not end after one gets a diploma.

414 darthstar  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:05:56am

re: #411 RogueOne

The only time a vote is wasted is when it's not cast at all.

415 RogueOne  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:06:15am

re: #408 Decatur Deb

How have you been feeling btw? I haven't seen you around much in the mornings.

416 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:06:32am

re: #413 Gus 802

"Fry, listen to me. Just because you say you're a robot doesn't make you a robot. Look at me. I call myself a doctor, but that doesn't make me a doctor. These fancy clothes do."

417 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:06:42am

re: #385 lawhawk

But we all know that fire doesn't melt steel. /

That's been tested and verified.
;)

418 iossarian  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:06:46am

re: #409 Dark_Falcon

"You cannot excuse bad behavior by pointing to other bad behavior"

- Bill O'Reilly

Oh really? I thought that's how the right has justified "enhanced interrogation techniques" for the past decade.

419 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:07:54am

re: #413 Gus 802

Add on top of that two things: One, that list has never been vetted. I know people personally who have signed that list with fake names and credentials. Two, the vast majority of "architects and engineers" on that list are actual architects and engineers... in completely different fields. Heck, Richard Gage himself is a licensed architect - for school gymnasiums.

420 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:08:15am

re: #411 RogueOne

Around here it's a church, I go to church every two years for about 10 minutes. I feel confident that's enough to get me into heaven.

If I can't vote for someone then at least I can vote against them by picking a 3rd party candidate. It might be a wasted vote but it makes me feel better.

I feel ya--voted Socialist Suicide Party a couple times in the '60s. The use o0f churches as polls kind of pisses me off. (We actually stopped using the schools around here because to many creepy people were getting past the security. 'S OK, though, we have a lot of empty mall space.)

421 darthstar  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:08:55am

Image: QRcodes720.png

heh...

422 iossarian  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:11:11am

BBL

423 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:11:48am

re: #415 RogueOne

How have you been feeling btw? I haven't seen you around much in the mornings.

Don't do day and night this month, just a couple few hours awake and a few asleep. Stupid kidney stones. Pretty much through it now and I got to catch up on the Hitler Channel and the weight loss infomercials.

424 darthstar  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:12:16am

re: #409 Dark_Falcon

"You cannot excuse bad behavior by pointing to other bad behavior"

- Bill O'Reilly

Yes he works for Fox, but that line is very well stated and true.

Quoting Bill O'Reilly is the second sign of madness.

425 RogueOne  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:14:05am

re: #423 Decatur Deb

Don't do day and night this month, just a couple few hours awake and a few asleep. Stupid kidney stones. Pretty much through it now and I got to catch up on the Hitler Channel and the weight loss infomercials.

I wondered if that was still keeping you down. Isn't there anything they can do to speed the process up a bit? It seems like this has been going on awhile now, you've got to be getting tired of it.

426 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:14:44am

re: #418 iossarian

Oh really? I thought that's how the right has justified "enhanced interrogation techniques" for the past decade.

"Grave Threat" is not the same thing as "Bad Behavior".


But we're getting off track here. What I am saying is that Michael Moore is a proven liar, and those lies engender serious hostility to the man and an unwillingness to listen to him. Reputation matters, which is why I work so hard to establish a reputation for honesty wherever I am. Once you become thought of as a liar, you lose the ability to persuade people.

427 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:15:21am

Heck, there are still lunar landing conspiracists out there, despite photographic proof of the US landing men on the moon multiple times, including new imagery taken in the past couple of weeks.

Conspiracies never die. They mutate.

428 BongCrodny  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:16:32am

re: #421 darthstar

Image: QRcodes720.png

heh...

Jen Sorenson's rapidly becoming one of my favorite cartoonists. Everything I've read from her just seems to be right on target.

429 Gus  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:16:36am

re: #419 thedopefishlives

Add on top of that two things: One, that list has never been vetted. I know people personally who have signed that list with fake names and credentials. Two, the vast majority of "architects and engineers" on that list are actual architects and engineers... in completely different fields. Heck, Richard Gage himself is a licensed architect - for school gymnasiums.

Yep. Some architect only do the aesthetic designs. I'm a designer but I never do structural engineering. I have some knowledge about structural design. I've designed steel framing before. But! I get a structural engineer to do the real engineering.

430 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:16:44am

re: #427 lawhawk

Heck, there are still lunar landing conspiracists out there, despite photographic proof of the US landing men on the moon multiple times, including new imagery taken in the past couple of weeks.

Conspiracies never die. They mutate.

LIES

431 Gus  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:17:15am

re: #427 lawhawk

Heck, there are still lunar landing conspiracists out there, despite photographic proof of the US landing men on the moon multiple times, including new imagery taken in the past couple of weeks.

Conspiracies never die. They mutate.

Of course. The new imagery becomes the next chapter.

432 makeitstop  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:17:56am

re: #426 Dark_Falcon

Once you become thought of as a liar, you lose the ability to persuade people.

And you're quoting Bill O'Reilly??

That man's been known to lie pretty often himself. He's no example.

433 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:18:25am

re: #425 RogueOne

I wondered if that was still keeping you down. Isn't there anything they can do to speed the process up a bit? It seems like this has been going on awhile now, you've got to be getting tired of it.

Series of cleverly-timed episodes--when the docs retrieve their junk I'll be certified gravel-free for a few years. The limitations did a lot of damage to the late Summer garden, though. I don't know how people did a simple thing like this before modern drugs and procedures--probably just walked in front of trains.

434 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:19:46am

re: #383 Gus 802

Oh look! Rick Perry is winning my poll. I wonder how that happened?

//

heh.

435 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:20:09am

re: #431 Gus 802

Of course. The new imagery becomes the next chapter.

Who flies a multi-million dollar orbiter to photograph footprints? I'll tell you who...

436 darthstar  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:20:09am

re: #427 lawhawk

Heck, there are still lunar landing conspiracists out there, despite photographic proof of the US landing men on the moon multiple times, including new imagery taken in the past couple of weeks.

Conspiracies never die. They mutate.

Those are space rabbit tracks...obviously.

437 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:20:19am

re: #434 Killgore Trout

heh.

WHERE IS RON PAUL?!

438 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:21:09am

re: #436 darthstar

Those are space rabbit tracks...obviously.

Some dude just scribbled on a picture of the moon.
Big whoop.
:P

439 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:22:34am

House GOPers pushing back against Cantor's calls for offsetting cuts with disaster aid.

Here's hoping that ill-conceived notion dies swiftly.

There is such a thing as being a fiscal conservative, but Cantor's just being fiscally stupid (and ignoring government's basic role in protecting its citizens).

440 RogueOne  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:22:48am

Are the polls open to anyone or are they reserved for lgf members?

441 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:23:17am

re: #436 darthstar

Where's my space modulator. /marvin

442 mr.fusion  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:25:22am

re: #418 iossarian

Oh really? I thought that's how the right has justified "enhanced interrogation techniques" for the past decade.

It's how they've justified everything for the past 3 years.

Call them out on their hatred of this President, the birth certificate, etc etc and all they can say is "you did it to Bush!"

443 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:27:47am

re: #440 RogueOne

Are the polls open to anyone or are they reserved for lgf members?

Guessing they're closed--Gus's poll has a 1:10 ratio of votes to views.

444 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:31:26am

John Edwards' lawyers ask judge to toss charges

RALEIGH, N.C. — Lawyers for John Edwards asked a federal judge on Tuesday to throw out criminal charges against the former Democratic presidential candidate.

Edwards' defense team filed five motions saying that federal prosecutors violated his rights under several constitutional amendments.

The lawyers argue that the federal indictment against him was unconstitutionally vague and that the charges were pursued by a partisan prosecutor for political gain. They also contend that even if all the facts alleged in the federal indictment were true, he still didn't commit a crime.

Edwards was charged in June with using more than $1 million in under-the-table payments from political supporters to hide his pregnant mistress Rielle Hunter during his 2008 run. He's also charged with helping to falsify campaign finance reports to cover up the payments.

Edwards has pleaded not guilty to six felony and misdemeanor counts. The trial is scheduled to start in October.

445 darthstar  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:32:51am

re: #441 lawhawk

Where's my space modulator. /marvin

Yep...and there's video proof that it was, as I said above, space bunny tracks...

Youtube Video
446 RogueOne  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:33:55am

re: #444 NJDhockeyfan

John Edwards' lawyers ask judge to toss charges

I'm not a fan of Edwards but there have been more than enough instances of federal prosecutors playing fast and loose with the rules over the last couple of years that I'm willing to at least consider his lawyers argument.

447 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:36:09am

And now the rest of the main stream media has decided to run with it, too. Ratings over accuracy. The right wing freakazoid media is the pied piper for today's US media landscape. Same thing happened with the "1967 borders" thing, although it was AP who started it the right wing media blew the distortion into epic proportions. Then everybody else just piggybacked on the nontroversy. Sad.

448 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:38:09am

re: #437 Varek Raith

WHERE IS RON PAUL?!

Right here...

Ron Paul calls Perry ‘Al Gore’s Texas cheerleader’ in latest video

449 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:39:04am

re: #444 NJDhockeyfan

re: #446 RogueOne

Lawyers eat lawyers-- Just glad he blew up before our primary.

450 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:44:09am

re: #448 NJDhockeyfan

Right here...

Ron Paul calls Perry ‘Al Gore’s Texas cheerleader’ in latest video

The TPGOP has a year to spend a good chunk of that Koch/Freedomworks/Moneybomb cash to gut each other. I just hope SP jumps into the mosh pit.

451 RogueOne  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:44:16am

re: #448 NJDhockeyfan

Right here...

Ron Paul calls Perry ‘Al Gore’s Texas cheerleader’ in latest video

That's funny btw. I wonder when Romney is going to jump on that line. If he doesn't do something quick to stop the perry momentum it may be over for him before we get to the Iowa caucus.

452 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:48:37am

re: #451 RogueOne

That's funny btw. I wonder when Romney is going to jump on that line. If he doesn't do something quick to stop the perry momentum it may be over for him before we get to the Iowa caucus.

Romney won't use that line, because neither he nor Perry will use anything from Ron Paul. Moreover, Romney can't afford to appear to malign Texas. Such an appearance would generate further hostility in the party against him.

453 RogueOne  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:51:40am

re: #452 Dark_Falcon

Romney won't use that line, because neither he nor Perry will use anything from Ron Paul. Moreover, Romney can't afford to appear to malign Texas. Such an appearance would generate further hostility in the party against him.

Nice guys finish last, it's science. If he never gets around to beating up on his opponent (figuratively of course!) he's wasting his money and he's going to lose. Unless he comes out and says "texans are a bunch of in-bred morons" there's no chance he'll lose the state in the general election anyway. Actually, I can't think of any scenario where Texas doesn't go for the republican.

454 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:53:05am

re: #452 Dark_Falcon

Romney won't use that line, because neither he nor Perry will use anything from Ron Paul. Moreover, Romney can't afford to appear to malign Texas. Such an appearance would generate further hostility in the party against him.

The frontrunners might be careful behind the podium, but their second-wave grunts will flood the Internet and social media with all the Rovian crap they can spread. Think Lincoln's enemies with iPads.

455 RogueOne  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:55:38am

Gotta run folks, Enjoy your day!

456 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:01:50am

Delayed-notice search warrants issued under the expanded powers of the Patriot Act, 2006–2009 (paged):

Image: prmarginalia110905_250.jpg

[Link: nymag.com...]

457 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:03:24am

I'm going to have bit of fun and turn this into a Boob Thread with this link:

Animal instincts: Photographer's exhibit sees naked models painted to look uncannily like wild creatures

A photographer has created a bizarre exhibit featuring naked models being covered with body paint to look just like wild animals.

Lennette Newell's daring pictures show models posing covered in paint as zebras, elephants, baboons and cheetahs next to their real life counterparts.

The San Francisco photographer's display, called 'Anti-Human' was devised out of Lennette's childhood desire to become one of the animals her father used to treat as a vet.

458 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:04:49am

re: #452 Dark_Falcon

neither he nor Perry will use anything from Ron Paul.

Kind of too late...

459 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:05:20am

Ugh, GOP debate tonight? I'm not sure if I have the stomach for it.

460 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:06:19am

re: #459 Killgore Trout

Ugh, GOP debate tonight? I'm not sure if I have the stomach for it.

Hey, look at the upside. It's a great time to start drinking.

/Yeah, the Mrs. Fish is away, how did you guess?

461 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:07:03am

re: #456 000G

Delayed-notice search warrants issued under the expanded powers of the Patriot Act, 2006–2009 (paged):

Image: prmarginalia110905_250.jpg

[Link: nymag.com...]

WE'RE UNDER ATTACK!!1! THIS IS AN EXISTENTIAL KULTURKAMPF!!1
There's no way the Patriot Act can be misused--It's patriotic.

462 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:08:53am

re: #457 Dark_Falcon

I'm going to have bit of fun and turn this into a Boob Thread with this link:

Animal instincts: Photographer's exhibit sees naked models painted to look uncannily like wild creatures

You're just trolling for furries!!

463 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:12:25am

re: #333 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Okay, I am sufficiently chagrined, back from my four hour self-imposed suspension for being a dumb-ass.

So, the guy who pointed the lasers at the planes out of 40 years of potential jail time, was sentenced to two and a half years.

Is that proper? That strikes me as a judicial "no harm/no foul" sentence; there could've been some kinda harm there.

464 KingKenrod  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:12:40am

Boobies!

465 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:21:09am

re: #463 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Okay, I am sufficiently chagrined, back from my four hour self-imposed suspension for being a dumb-ass.

So, the guy who pointed the lasers at the planes out of 40 years of potential jail time, was sentenced to two and a half years.

Is that proper? That strikes me as a judicial "no harm/no foul" sentence; there could've been some kinda harm there.

It was a serious offense and merited a felony conviction, but no one was actually injured. 2 1/2 years sounds about right. Enough to mark the offender for life, but not ruin them utterly.

466 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:22:42am

re: #465 Dark_Falcon

It was a serious offense and merited a felony conviction, but no one was actually injured. 2 1/2 years sounds about right. Enough to mark the offender for life, but not ruin them utterly.

And about enough to deter the deterrable.

467 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:29:00am

re: #465 Dark_Falcon

re: #466 Decatur Deb

Would you feel differently had he crashed one of the planes with the exact same action?

468 Gus  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:29:20am

re: #456 000G

Delayed-notice search warrants issued under the expanded powers of the Patriot Act, 2006–2009 (paged):

Image: prmarginalia110905_250.jpg

[Link: nymag.com...]

I knew this would happen. Over here in Northern California, Homeland Security is being used for eliminating marijuana crops. It was pretty obvious from the onset as well that the new expanded surveillance privileges given to the Feds would also be used for other criminal cases.

This was all given a green light by both parties in DC and as I stated earlier, Obama is continuing most if not all of the Bush policies in the GWOT. Nothing's changed and the USA is continuing on the path to being a security state while the national security-industrial complex continues to rake in huge profits. Terrorism consulting is still a growth industry.

469 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:30:06am

The biggest threat to Western Civilization
Image: vAWfT.png

470 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:33:17am

re: #396 Rightwingconspirator

I'm only registered as a Democrat to protest the massive insanity of the GOP.

And 'left' and 'right' are fictitious terms that don't have any inherent meaning. The only real meaning they have in the US is either as shorthand for "GOP" or "Democrat", or as shorthand for "Social conservative/anti-intellectual" and "Normal person".

I don't consider the Democrats a 'left-wing' party if we're talking about fiscal issues as they've been defined by the parties historically. They pretty much occupy the place the GOP did about forty years ago, maybe a little farther to the 'right'.

It's weird to me how quickly the GOP has picked up the Ayn Rand, voodoo economics banner again, and how the media isn't pointing out "None of this bullshit worked before and everyone ridiculed it, why on earth is it believable now?" But Ryan's plan still gets called 'brave'.

Sheesh.

471 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:34:12am

re: #469 Killgore Trout

But that is true! People with money have savings accounts now. It's fucking killing the economy! People without money can't get credit.

Those of us in the gratification business (ssssllllluuuurrrrp!) are dying out heah!

In ten years I'll look back and laugh.

Is laughing allowed in a FEMA Camp?

472 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:34:17am

re: #467 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Fire off a drunken shot into the air, you're arrested for discharging a firearm negligently.

Fire off a drunken shot and hit a passerby, you're on the hook for manslaughter.

Whether or not it makes sense, our justice system cares deeply about the outcome of the act, not just the inherent dangers of it.

473 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:38:07am

re: #467 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

re: #466 Decatur Deb

Would you feel differently had he crashed one of the planes with the exact same action?

Roughly the same as the difference between a DWI penalty and a DWI fatal accident penalty. Our legal system permits a lot of gambling with life and consequences.

474 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:39:02am

re: #472 Obdicut

Thanks! That's what I was lookingre: #472 Obdicut

Whether or not it makes sense, our justice system cares deeply about the outcome of the act, not just the inherent dangers of it.

Not looking for an argument, do you think that was the judges rational behind the sentence? Just your opinion, (you can't know a judges intent).

Purposefully aiming a laser in the eyes of pilot in flight seems to me a bit more pre-meditated than an El Guapo move.

475 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:39:21am

re: #473 Decatur Deb

I think it's got to do with the old 'punishment' idea that's still in the justice system, no matter how little it makes at times.

476 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:39:51am

Apple have put on hold plans to release a new iPod designed for children to use... Apparently "itouch Kids" wasn't an ideal product name.

477 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:40:17am

re: #468 Gus 802

I knew this would happen. Over here in Northern California, Homeland Security is being used for eliminating marijuana crops. It was pretty obvious from the onset as well that the new expanded surveillance privileges given to the Feds would also be used for other criminal cases.

This was all given a green light by both parties in DC and as I stated earlier, Obama is continuing most if not all of the Bush policies in the GWOT. Nothing's changed and the USA is continuing on the path to being a security state while the national security-industrial complex continues to rake in huge profits. Terrorism consulting is still a growth industry.

It wouldn't have the same ring if it was called "The Keeping Cells Filled With Stoners Act of 2001".

478 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:41:16am

re: #474 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Well, I'm not psychic, so I don't know. Maybe the dangers of doing so are less than the media has made it out to be. Maybe the guy was sincerely contrite. Who knows? But it's probably that, since there's no harm done, there's little the justice system can actually do.

I don't know what to do with people like that. If the urge to do that shit comes from ignorance, then harsh punishment seems unnecessary. If they're doing it out of sheer malice, fuck, I dunno. I've never had a solution for evil little shits.

479 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:41:57am

re: #474 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

That post was a "cluck". Sorry.

480 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:43:38am

re: #479 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Didn't ruffle my feathers any. Don't worry, we're not a bunch of wet hens. You'd have to be a bigger cock than that to annoy us. That was a bantam-weight mistake, at worst. Nothing to crow over, but you just laid an egg; no need to fly the coop.

481 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:45:04am

re: #478 Obdicut

Well, I'm not psychic, so I don't know. Maybe the dangers of doing so are less than the media has made it out to be. Maybe the guy was sincerely contrite. Who knows? But it's probably that, since there's no harm done, there's little the justice system can actually do.

I don't know what to do with people like that. If the urge to do that shit comes from ignorance, then harsh punishment seems unnecessary. If they're doing it out of sheer malice, fuck, I dunno. I've never had a solution for evil little shits.

I worked a similar issue with Army pilots at risk from civilian lasers (some dumb-assed display in Las Vegas). The risks are real, but slight. The chances of hurting a pilot, with a hard-to-get power of laser, is good. The chances of bringing down the plane are very low. Shouldn't be encouraged, though.

482 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:45:45am

re: #480 Obdicut

heh.

I had a friend who's favorite expletive was "cluster fuck"... he abbreviated it (why is abbreviation such a long word?) to "Cluck". He'd also say "Shit Fuck" which he made into "Shuck".

Every time he said it, I'd laugh.

483 Gus  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:46:25am

So on the Carson City shooting:

Just before 9 a.m. Tuesday, Sencion, 32, pulled into the IHOP parking lot in a minivan “armed to the hilt,” said Furlong.

Why with all of this "national security" we have in this nation did this occur? Why was an allegedly crazy person allowed to become "armed to the hilt" undetected? How did he obtain the AK-47?

484 Gus  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:47:50am

re: #483 Gus 802

So on the Carson City shooting:

Why with all of this "national security" we have in this nation did this occur? Why was an allegedly crazy person allowed to become "armed to the hilt" undetected? How did he obtain the AK-47?

Carson City Sheriff Kenny Furlong says Sencion was born in Mexico and was in the U.S. under a valid U.S. passport.

Interesting.

485 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:47:58am

re: #480 Obdicut

Chicken Fucker!
-Super Troopers

486 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:49:33am

re: #482 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

My brothers and I have a private language based on random movie quotes and incidents from our life.

Like "Tired and emotional" standing in for 'Completely drunk and blasted out of his mind".

Or "Productive conversation" meaning "screaming at each other and now hating each other more than ever before".

"Really brought a lot of energy" meaning "Was out of control and useless but thought he was doing great, total jackass"

"I'm a little light" meaning "I'm not paying for this dumb shit, if you're so hot on the idea you pay for it, asshole"

"I think you'll find things change over time" meaning "You're fucked, get used to it."

"Winning smile" meaning "Crazy psychopathic tendencies"

"A real go-getter" meaning "Fucking asshole tool that should be avoided at all costs".

"Wake up early and really get to it" meaning "Sleep 'till noon, awake still drunk, waste entire day doing dumb shit."

487 Gus  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:49:33am

So anyone can come into this country with a "valid passport" and then proceed to purchase weaponry? Undetected? Did he arm himself for "maintaining a militia?" Is this what "gun rights" is about? Does the NRA have any comments?

488 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:49:34am

re: #474 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Thanks! That's what I was lookingre: #472 Obdicut

Not looking for an argument, do you think that was the judges rational behind the sentence? Just your opinion, (you can't know a judges intent).

Purposefully aiming a laser in the eyes of pilot in flight seems to me a bit more pre-meditated than an El Guapo move.

Lets hope they don't get a hold of one of these to shine at pilots...

Most powerful handheld laser: Wicked Lasers sets world record

The S3 Krypton from Wicked Lasers delivers enough punch to send a beam 85 miles, and at 86 million Lux, they claim that it's spot is 8,000 times brighter than the sun as seen from Earth - setting the world record for the Most powerful handheld laser, according to World Records Academy.

...The World's Most Powerful Handheld Laser has a range of 85 miles, which means the beam could leave our atmosphere.

Therefore, Wicked says that you should not aim the laser at satellites in orbit because it could mess up the sensors on an orbiting satellite. The laser could also blind pilots.

489 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:49:43am

re: #474 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Thanks! That's what I was lookingre: #472 Obdicut

Not looking for an argument, do you think that was the judges rational behind the sentence? Just your opinion, (you can't know a judges intent).

Purposefully aiming a laser in the eyes of pilot in flight seems to me a bit more pre-meditated than an El Guapo move.

Lets hope they don't get a hold of one of these to shine at pilots...

Most powerful handheld laser: Wicked Lasers sets world record

The S3 Krypton from Wicked Lasers delivers enough punch to send a beam 85 miles, and at 86 million Lux, they claim that it's spot is 8,000 times brighter than the sun as seen from Earth - setting the world record for the Most powerful handheld laser, according to World Records Academy.

...The World's Most Powerful Handheld Laser has a range of 85 miles, which means the beam could leave our atmosphere.

Therefore, Wicked says that you should not aim the laser at satellites in orbit because it could mess up the sensors on an orbiting satellite. The laser could also blind pilots.

490 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:50:28am

re: #485 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Chicken Fucker!
-Super Troopers

Youtube Video
491 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:50:29am

re: #483 Gus 802

So on the Carson City shooting:

Why with all of this "national security" we have in this nation did this occur? Why was an allegedly crazy person allowed to become "armed to the hilt" undetected? How did he obtain the AK-47?

Guy can't be harassed, he might have been going to demonstrate his 2nd Amendment rights at a political rally. Price we pay.

492 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:50:43am

re: #488 NJDhockeyfan

Okay, who the heck would actually let one of these things out in the wild?

493 Gus  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:51:17am

re: #491 Decatur Deb

Guy can't be harassed, he might have been going to demonstrate his 2nd Amendment rights at a political rally. Price we pay.

Yeah. We wouldn't want to hurt the gun nut's wittle feewings.

//

494 laZardo  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:51:29am

re: #486 Obdicut

My brothers and I have a private language based on random movie quotes and incidents from our life.

Like "Tired and emotional" standing in for 'Completely drunk and blasted out of his mind".

Or "Productive conversation" meaning "screaming at each other and now hating each other more than ever before".

"Really brought a lot of energy" meaning "Was out of control and useless but thought he was doing great, total jackass"

"I'm a little light" meaning "I'm not paying for this dumb shit, if you're so hot on the idea you pay for it, asshole"

"I think you'll find things change over time" meaning "You're fucked, get used to it."

"Winning smile" meaning "Crazy psychopathic tendencies"

"A real go-getter" meaning "Fucking asshole tool that should be avoided at all costs".

"Wake up early and really get to it" meaning "Sleep 'till noon, awake still drunk, waste entire day doing dumb shit."

You oughta work as a spokesperson.

/

495 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:51:46am

re: #492 thedopefishlives

Okay, who the heck would actually let one of these things out in the wild?

Anything is possible for the right amount of money.

496 Gus  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:52:24am

Can we track this AK-47? Oops. Probably not.

Thanks NRA!

//

497 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:52:33am

re: #490 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Youtube Video
498 makeitstop  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:55:21am

This is about to fly under the radar - and it's got the Fox News stamp of approval.

News Corp. Columnist Holding Press Conference On "Why The GOP Must Win White America For Victory In 2012"

On September 9, The National Policy Institute will present a comprehensive, yet simple, strategy for a Republican victory in 2012--Win the White vote. "The Majority Strategy" is based on the GOP expanding its traditional White voting base, as opposed to continuing its failed "outreach" programs to racial minorities.

Peter Brimelow of VDARE.com, radio host James Edwards, Jared Taylor of American Renaissance, and NPI's Richard Spencer will speak.

The racism emanating from Fox just gets more blatant every day.

499 Gus  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:55:51am

More:

Family members told authorities that Sencion had a history of mental problems dating back to age 16, the official said.

The shooting began shortly before 9 a.m. Tuesday. When authorities arrived, those who called in the shooting identified the suspect as a man lying wounded in the parking lot between two vehicles. The suspect had continued firing in the parking lot after leaving the restaurant, Furlong said.

The AK-47 was recovered as were an empty 30-round gun magazine and two other gun magazines. A pistol and assault rifle were found in or near a vehicle, the sheriff said.

See. Psychos can still purchase weapons in the USA. Thanks NRA!

500 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:56:01am

Off to work.

Careful! You'll put someone's eye out with that thing!

501 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:57:01am

re: #500 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Off to work.

Careful! You'll put someone's eye out with that thing!

Watch the road. I heard it's raining.

502 Gus  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:57:03am

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of psychopaths to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

[Banjo music.]

503 Lidane  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:57:11am

Hoo boy.

I just sent a monthly budget and wage request to my boss. I had to really work to get things down to the acceptable range that the HR person said I could ask for, and it would involve me being in the office 25 hours a week, plus working an extra 15 at home and on the weekends to meet that range, but I need the money, so I don't have a choice.

Here's hoping it all works. *crosses fingers*

504 laZardo  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:57:47am

re: #499 Gus 802

The gubmint comes up with these stoopid definitions of "crazy" to make sure only their beatdown cops have weapons.

505 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:59:29am

re: #499 Gus 802

More:

See. Psychos can still purchase weapons in the USA. Thanks NRA!

He got it from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

506 laZardo  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 9:00:26am

TEA PARTY ZOMBIES

O:

507 Gus  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 9:00:42am

re: #504 laZardo

In America, it's easier to get a gun than it is to get unemployment insurance.

508 Gus  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 9:01:22am

re: #505 NJDhockeyfan

He got it from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

At the rate things are going...

509 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 9:02:48am

re: #496 Gus 802

Can we track this AK-47? Oops. Probably not.

Thanks NRA!

//

Let's see where it comes from before we cast that bit of blame, shall we? Some AKs found as crime guns were imported illegally, and those are the ones able to fire full-auto. The NRA can't be blamed for those.

BBL

510 Gus  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 9:03:22am

re: #509 Dark_Falcon

Let's see where it comes from before we cast that bit of blame, shall we? Some AKs found as crime guns were imported illegally, and those are the ones able to fire full-auto. The NRA can't be blamed for those.

BBL

Yeah. I'll wait for the NRA to send their condolences.

511 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 9:03:46am

re: #470 Obdicut

And 'left' and 'right' are fictitious terms that don't have any inherent meaning.

I disagree, (although I admit I have no idea what "inherent" is supposed to mean in that sentence -- if you meant that the terms could be used interchangeably without loss of semantic accuracy, you are wrong), left and right are quite obviously meaningful terms in politics. And all political terminology is "fictitious" (in the sense of "conventionally or hypothetically assumed or accepted").

512 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 9:04:27am

re: #498 makeitstop

This is about to fly under the radar - and it's got the Fox News stamp of approval.

News Corp. Columnist Holding Press Conference On "Why The GOP Must Win White America For Victory In 2012"

The racism emanating from Fox just gets more blatant every day.

News Corp people sharing stage with White nationalists. *nation shrugs*.

the National Policy Institute -

"promot[ing] the American majority's unique historical, cultural, and biological inheritance--and advances policies that, without prejudicing the legitimate rights of others, fearlessly defends our rights... our heritage."

513 Gus  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 9:04:43am

Firearms Related Deaths For Law Enforcement Hit 20-year High As Overall Fatalities Rise 14 Percent In First Six Months Of 2011

Look the other way! Look the other way!

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State...

514 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 9:05:05am

Well, looks like the gamers will be disappointed with the release of Dead Island. Looks like a laughable, buggy and poorly designed game. Fuck 'em, they ain't getting my money.

515 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 9:05:54am

re: #507 Gus 802

In America, it's easier to get a gun than it is to get unemployment insurance.

That might turn out to be a feature, not a bug. If the assholes in charge really do manage to kick off another Great Depression, they will find that the American population of today is not working under the same premises as the Americans of 1930.

516 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 9:06:08am

re: #514 Killgore Trout

Well, looks like the gamers will be disappointed with the release of Dead Island. Looks like a laughable, buggy and poorly designed game. Fuck 'em, they ain't getting my money.

They share a dev team with facebook?........

517 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 9:06:11am

Just had a little visit from IT support. They are returning my old PC that has Adobe CS3 installed on it because they don't have the installation disk and the company won't pay for another license.

No I am NOT bringing my Adobe install CD from home.

518 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 9:07:49am

re: #498 makeitstop

This is about to fly under the radar - and it's got the Fox News stamp of approval.

News Corp. Columnist Holding Press Conference On "Why The GOP Must Win White America For Victory In 2012"

The racism emanating from Fox just gets more blatant every day.

Quite the crowd of nativist assholes.

519 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 9:09:39am

re: #514 Killgore Trout

Well, looks like the gamers will be disappointed with the release of Dead Island. Looks like a laughable, buggy and poorly designed game. Fuck 'em, they ain't getting my money.

Why spend money designing great games when you can steal code and make zillions using Facebook as your sandbox?
/Zynga business model

520 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 9:10:14am

re: #518 HappyWarrior

Quite the crowd of nativist assholes.

You leave the Iroquois out of this.......

521 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 9:12:20am

Must go sell beer and chips.

Laters.

522 laZardo  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 9:14:25am

Currently on phone with Washington DSHS over EBT/SNAP...

523 Lidane  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 9:14:39am

re: #514 Killgore Trout

Well, looks like the gamers will be disappointed with the release of Dead Island. Looks like a laughable, buggy and poorly designed game. Fuck 'em, they ain't getting my money.

The boyfriend got it through Redbox yesterday. It looks like an interesting idea, but I haven't decided if it's a good game yet or not. I haven't seen enough of it.

524 Lidane  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 9:17:50am

re: #519 Alouette

Why spend money designing great games when you can steal code and make zillions using Facebook as your sandbox?
/Zynga business model

Screw the Zynga model. EA/Playfish are a bunch of crafty bastards. They've made The Sims Social as completely addicting as the real Sims game. It's an epic struggle for me not to just give them all my money.

525 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 9:19:47am

re: #523 Lidane

The boyfriend got it through Redbox yesterday. It looks like an interesting idea, but I haven't decided if it's a good game yet or not. I haven't seen enough of it.

I think it's a great concept and had lots of hype but they got lazy with the design and left way too many bugs. Here's a typical review...
[Dopefish] Dead Island

Youtube Video

NSFW language
526 Shropshire_Slasher  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 9:21:39am

re: #514 Killgore Trout
Oh noes, don't rain on my parade, getting home to play that game is the high point of my day!

527 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 9:25:17am

re: #506 laZardo

Honestly? I don't think that's appropriate.

Wet blanket. Yeah, that's me.

529 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 9:39:10am

re: #510 Gus 802

Yeah. I'll wait for the NRA to send their condolences.

Gus, if the gun is an unregistered fully-automatic AK-47 that was imported into this country illegally, then the neither the NRA nor the firearms industry can bear any blame whatsoever for it being here. Possession of such weapons has been illegal since 1934, and the law requiring full-auto weapons to be registered was supported by the NRA.

All I'm saying is wait for the facts before casting blame. Something you yourself have demanded.

530 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 9:39:15am

re: #406 iossarian

I don't see how one can justify that kind of cynicism about Moore, though. I mean, do you honestly believe that he would be unhappy if, say, the US instituted single-payer healthcare, and he became less rich as a result due to increased taxation?

If you accept that single payer would just be wonderful and assume it will be well funded and well run (not assumptions I agree with) of course you would be right.

If Michael Moore would like to pay more in taxes, I'm sure his accountant has the form. Judging by the arc of his movies ticket sales, he may remain in a lower tax bracket anyway.

He talks about taxation in the context of Bush. Another key partisan error. IMO The correct level of taxation for each income likely does not coincide with an end to the Bush tax cuts. It is likely to be different numbers entirely. A partisan view of taxes flies in the face of objective economics. So I disagree with the partisan approach entirely.

531 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 9:41:08am

And in the mostly-good news category, this is the last weekday morning I'll be on LGF for a long while. Matters with my employer were straightened out enough today to allow my return and I'll be back at work tomorrow.

532 laZardo  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 9:41:34am

re: #531 Dark_Falcon

And in the mostly-good news category, this is the last weekday morning I'll be on LGF for a long while. Matters with my employer were straightened out enough today to allow my return and I'll be back at work tomorrow.

Congrats. O:

533 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 9:44:07am

re: #531 Dark_Falcon

And in the mostly-good news category, this is the last weekday morning I'll be on LGF for a long while. Matters with my employer were straightened out enough today to allow my return and I'll be back at work tomorrow.

So they're going to overlook all the meth and the maimed livestock? Must be nice.

534 Gus  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 9:44:26am

re: #529 Dark_Falcon

Gus, if the gun is an unregistered fully-automatic AK-47 that was imported into this country illegally, then the neither the NRA nor the firearms industry can bear any blame whatsoever for it being here. Possession of such weapons has been illegal since 1934, and the law requiring full-auto weapons to be registered was supported by the NRA.

All I'm saying is wait for the facts before casting blame. Something you yourself have demanded.

Registration and Licensing—These laws serve no crime-fighting purpose, because criminals don`t register themselves or their guns, and most get guns from theft or the black market. Registration has led to gun confiscation in some foreign countries and some U.S. states. The Supreme Court has ruled that requiring felons to register guns would violate their Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination. -- NRA

Take a look. Apparently they also support felons having to register their guns. Nothing you can say will convince me otherwise about the slimy NRA.

535 laZardo  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 9:45:39am

So the EBT folk will need a copy of my birth certificate.

I DON'T WANT THEM TO KNOW I'M A SECRET FILIPINO

O_O

/

536 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 9:46:07am

re: #533 Decatur Deb

So they're going to overlook all the meth and the maimed livestock? Must be nice.

And the restraining order says he has to stay at least 100 yards away from the bosses wife!

(don't ask ,,, long story,,,,office party,,,!!)

537 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 9:47:22am

re: #535 laZardo

So the EBT folk will need a copy of my birth certificate.

I DON'T WANT THEM TO KNOW I'M A SECRET FILIPINO

O_O

/

Long or short form?

Ever been to Hawaii!?!?

//

538 blueraven  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 9:48:02am

re: #535 laZardo

So the EBT folk will need a copy of my birth certificate.

I DON'T WANT THEM TO KNOW I'M A SECRET FILIPINO

O_O

/

Call Obama, he will hook you up...

539 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 9:49:01am

re: #534 Gus 802

Registration and Licensing—These laws serve no crime-fighting purpose, because criminals don`t register themselves or their guns, and most get guns from theft or the black market. Registration has led to gun confiscation in some foreign countries and some U.S. states. The Supreme Court has ruled that requiring felons to register guns would violate their Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination. -- NRA

Take a look. Apparently they also support felons having to register their guns. Nothing you can say will convince me otherwise about the slimy NRA.

Gus, when they say that, they are talking about guns that do not presently have to be registered. The NRA has accepted since the 1930's that full-auto weapons are in a different category due to their sheer destructive power, and as such their registration is appropriate.

540 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 9:52:02am

An interesting piece on 9/11 effects ten years on by Victor Davis Hanson is online at City Journal. I found the end of it especially good:

And so, on the fifth anniversary of September 11 in 2006, the country had become split apart over Iraq, mostly amnesiac about Afghanistan, and receptive to the liberal narrative that the terrorists had won by scaring us into abandoning our values. In contrast, on the tenth anniversary, Americans have come nearly full circle: anxious about renewed violence in Afghanistan, increasingly unconcerned with Iraq, and relieved that postwar homeland security measures have kept them safe.

The common denominator in these ten years? American life under its hypercritical, volatile, and mercurial democracy proves resilient; the Islamic terrorists and their authoritarian sponsors who would destroy it do not. And even after a decade of acrimony, partisan rancor, and stasis, Americans continue to be horrified—and angry—over those who were murdered on September 11. We’ve done our best for ten years to ensure that it cannot happen again.

541 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 9:52:50am

Watch out, my eyes are dilated and I can't see squat!

542 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 9:52:55am

Arkansas weatherman Brett Cummins found in hot tub with naked dead man wearing 'dog collar':

Read more: [Link: www.nydailynews.com...]


The jokes, they just make themselves up

543 Gus  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 9:53:02am

re: #539 Dark_Falcon

Gus, when they say that, they are talking about guns that do not presently have to be registered. The NRA has accepted since the 1930's that full-auto weapons are in a different category due to their sheer destructive power, and as such their registration is appropriate.

1994 Federal Assault Weapons Ban

In 2004 the NRA opposed renewal of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban of 1994, which banned many features of certain semiautomatic rifles and certain types of removable magazines - gun control advocates wanted to make the ban permanent and expand it. The NRA succeeded, and the ban expired at midnight on September 13, 2004.

Yes, yes. It was for weapons manufactured after the ban was passed.

Yeah, there's no gun problem in this country. Everything's perfect.

Guns don't kill people... yawn.

544 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 9:53:55am

re: #511 000G

They're not actually meaningful terms, no. The policies currently held by the Democrats on many subjects were once held by the GOP-- very recently, ten years ago, forty years ago-- and yet the Democrats are still said to be on the 'left' and the GOP on the 'right'.

"left" and "right" are never actually defined. They're used as though they are, but they have no actual definition.

545 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 9:55:45am

re: #540 Dark_Falcon

As usual, VDH's piece is full of factual errors and masturbatory prose.

546 Gus  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 9:56:07am

re: #540 Dark_Falcon

An interesting piece on 9/11 effects ten years on by Victor Davis Hanson is online at City Journal. I found the end of it especially good:

...

...receptive to the liberal narrative that the terrorists had won by scaring us into abandoning our values...

Seriously?

547 reine.de.tout  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 9:57:35am

re: #542 sattv4u2

Arkansas weatherman Brett Cummins found in hot tub with naked dead man wearing 'dog collar':

Read more: [Link: www.nydailynews.com...]

The jokes, they just make themselves up

KARK 4 News stated online Tuesday that "Brett will not be on the air as he is mourning the loss of his friend."

OK, it's awful that the man died in such undignified circumstances.

But Brett won't be on the air because he's "mourning"? I believe I would stay off the air out of sheer embarrassment.

548 Gus  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 9:58:32am

Oh look! A stupid right winger. What a surprise...

Well, Are You Left-Wingers Happy Now That Your Violent Rhetoric Has Led To Three National Guard Members Being "Taken Out?"

In less than 24 hours after union thug, Jimmy Hoffa Jr. declared war on America and told his supporters it was time to "TAKE THOSE SOB's OUT" a man named Eduardo Sencion, a Mexican National working here on a U.S, passport walked into an I-Hop Restaurant in Carson City Nevada, singled out and opened fire with an AK-47 assault rifle on group of five uniformed National Guard members who's only crime was to be minding their own business and having a little breakfast.

549 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 10:01:20am

re: #548 Gus 802

Oh look! A stupid right winger. What a surprise...

Well, Are You Left-Wingers Happy Now That Your Violent Rhetoric Has Led To Three National Guard Members Being "Taken Out?"

Or, as Sharon Angle would say, that was a "2nd Amendment remedy" in action.
I can play that stupid game too!

550 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 10:01:38am

re: #547 reine.de.tout

OK, it's awful that the man died in such undignified circumstances.

But Brett won't be on the air because he's "mourning"? I believe I would stay off the air out of sheer embarrassment.

Do you have any idea how hard it is to sell a used hot tub!?!?

551 Kragar  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 10:04:14am

David Barton and Friends: Murderer? Homosexual? Same difference.

My favorite line: "Science will always catch up with the Bible"

Yeah, especially when you ignore actual science in favor of junk gimmick science.

552 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 10:04:14am

Well, now I really do need to get going. I'll be back later.

553 Tumulus11  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 10:05:12am

O/T

. A Russian Yak-42 carrying a pro hockey team has clipped an airport tower mast on takeoff and crashed in flames. Forty-five are dead, with two survivors.

'At least 45 people died on Wednesday afternoon when a plane carrying the Lokomotiv Yaroslavl ice hockey team crashed during take-off near Yaroslavl, some 250 km from Moscow, emergency officials said.

Two people survived the crash, investigators said. The cause of the accident has not yet been established.

Eight members of the crew were among the dead.

The Yak-42 plane was carrying the team to Minsk, the Belarusian capital, for the start of the new Kontinental Hockey League (KHL). The side is coached by Canadian Brad McCrimmon, a former Detroit Red Wings assistant.


The plane crashed at 4:00 p.m. Moscow time (noon GMT).

The plane fell to earth straight after take-off and burst into flames.

'Passenger body parts were found in the Volga River, where part of the fuselage fell,' a police source said.
.......

Lokomotiv has a number of former NHL stars on the books, including former Minnesota Wild and Vancouver Canucks centre Pavol Demitra, Josef Vasicek, also a centre formerly with the New York Islanders and Carolina Hurricanes, and Belarusian defenseman Ruslan Salei, formerly of the Anaheim Mighty Ducks, Colorado Avalanche and the Red Wings.

The club's entire first team was on board the plane.
// RIA Novosti.

554 Kragar  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 10:05:44am

re: #548 Gus 802

Oh look! A stupid right winger. What a surprise...

Well, Are You Left-Wingers Happy Now That Your Violent Rhetoric Has Led To Three National Guard Members Being "Taken Out?"

Fucking idiot.

555 Artist  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 10:06:25am

re: #551 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Eat a dick pizza, Barton.

556 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 10:07:17am

BBL

557 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 10:07:22am

re: #551 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

David Barton and Friends: Murderer? Homosexual? Same difference.

My favorite line: "Science will always catch up with the Bible"

Yeah, especially when you ignore actual science in favor of junk gimmick science.

What does the Bible say on superstring theory???

558 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 10:08:45am

Oy, I'm gonna go take a nap and let these eye drops wear off.

559 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 10:09:04am

re: #534 Gus 802

Blaming the NRA for gun crime is a lot like blaming 1st amendment advocacy for hate speech. If not for the NRA the SCOTUS would not have seen the case that finally ruled the 2nd amendment to actually be an individual right. Please note most gun regulations and requirements some of which are truly odious and clearly unfair-Still stand.

560 Kragar  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 10:09:32am

re: #557 Varek Raith

What does the Bible say on superstring theory???

Um, God will send you a bird?

If you have cast your ballot, your seed, for righteousness, saying "I'm not going that way," you might live in Israel with King Ahab and Jezebel, wicked, and you might be getting three and a half years of no rain but you may be like Elijah; God's going to send you a raven to take care of you.

561 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 10:10:31am

re: #553 Tumulus11

:(

heard that on my drive home this a.m.

The side is coached by Canadian Brad McCrimmon, a former Detroit Red Wings assistant.

I met him when he 1st came into the league with the Bruins. He was a rookie the same year as Ray Bourque and I figured between the two of them the Bruins were set at defense for a decade

562 Gus  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 10:10:49am

NRA pushes for expanded 2nd Amendment rights

MP3 Audio

Three years ago, the Supreme Court angered gun control advocates when it overturned Washington, D.C.’s ban on handguns. Their ruling in District of Columbia v. Heller established that the 2nd Amendment provides an “individual right” to possess guns in the home for self-defense; two years later, a similar case in Chicago led them to extend the ruling nationwide. Since then, over 400 legal challenges have been filed, as gun owners and across America seek the right to carry concealed firearms in public as well; nearly all have been rejected by courts at the state level.

Continues.

Welcome to the Wild West. The one that never existed. The NRA is seeking to expand gun "rights" so that anyone can carry a gun on the street. They also oppose licensing and registration as I noted above and I will repeat here:

Registration and Licensing—These laws serve no crime-fighting purpose, because criminals don`t register themselves or their guns, and most get guns from theft or the black market. Registration has led to gun confiscation in some foreign countries and some U.S. states. The Supreme Court has ruled that requiring felons to register guns would violate their Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination.

563 Gus  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 10:11:19am

Gun rights zealots remind me of creationists.

564 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 10:13:09am

re: #548 Gus 802

I've been busy with other stuff the past few days.

What happened with that shooting?

565 Gus  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 10:14:23am

re: #564 ProLifeLiberal

I've been busy with other stuff the past few days.

What happened with that shooting?

Not much. No motive is known yet. He was apparently a Mexican national here on a valid passport. Known mental health issues according to his family -- since he was 16 years old. He had an AK-47, and a rifle and a handgun in his van.

566 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 10:19:53am

I went to all the trouble to figure out how to use the LGF poll feature, and nobody even votes?

Really, I think you are underestimating the ursine grand theft auto threat to America.

567 Kronocide  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 10:20:04am

re: #548 Gus 802

Oh look! A stupid right winger. What a surprise...

Well, Are You Left-Wingers Happy Now That Your Violent Rhetoric Has Led To Three National Guard Members Being "Taken Out?"

I think 'ol boy was being antagonistic with the Giffords shooting in mind.

568 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 10:20:39am

re: #551 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

David Barton and Friends: Murderer? Homosexual? Same difference.

My favorite line: "Science will always catch up with the Bible"

Yeah, especially when you ignore actual science in favor of junk gimmick science.

This is the guy Mike Huckabee thinks we all should listen to at gunpoint. He's a fucking lunatic. As is the guy blaming Hoffa for what happened at the IHOP. Typical right wing bullshit. Act like it can't be their fault when something like Brevik happens but blame the left when that happens with no proof.

569 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 10:20:49am

(Seriously wondering how many people had to look up ursine.)

570 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 10:21:32am

re: #4 Killgore Trout

Just goes to show - ain't enough bread in the world to enable a bread crumb trail long enough to lead these folks back to some semblance of "fair and balanced."

And they couldn't care less.

571 Kragar  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 10:22:43am

re: #569 EmmmieG

(Seriously wondering how many people had to look up ursine.)

Why would anyone need to look that up? Who doesn't know that?

572 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 10:22:47am

re: #569 EmmmieG

(Seriously wondering how many people had to look up ursine.)

Bear-like? Or an order of nuns?

573 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 10:25:25am

re: #569 EmmmieG

(Seriously wondering how many people had to look up ursine.)

I'm still working on underestimating!

574 Kragar  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 10:26:05am

Some good news;

Neo-Nazi Set to Plead Guilty Today in MLK Terror Bomb Attempt

While federal prosecutors and defenders involved in the case were tightlipped on the eve of the expected plea, it likely boiled down to this for Harpham:

Option 1: Go to trial and risk the likelihood of life in prison if convicted on all charges.
Option 2: Accept a plea with an expected sentencing range of 25 to 30 years, give or take a little.

In court today, Harpham will have to convince the judge the guilty plea is entirely voluntarily and is not being coerced with threats or promises.

Unlike many dozens of other documents kept sealed in the case, including the probable cause affidavit used to arrest him last March, the plea agreement with the accused would-be MLK bomber is expected to be filed publicly if he follows through with the guilty pleas.

575 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 10:28:55am

Photos show enduring traces of man's lunar visits

(Reuters) - New high-resolution pictures taken by an orbiting NASA camera show clear evidence of man's lunar explorations nearly 40 years after the last spaceflight touched down on the moon, the agency said on Tuesday.

The National Aeronautics and Space Administration released three pictures Tuesday snapped over the past month by its two-year-old Lunar Reconnaissance Vehicle.

The pictures provide the sharpest images yet of the Apollo 12, 14 and 17 landing sites and include a photo of the boot tracks left behind in 1972 by the last astronaut to walk on the moon.

"These images remind us of our fantastic Apollo history and beckon us to continue to move forward in exploration of our solar system," said Jim Green, director of the Planetary Science Division at NASA Headquarters in Washington.

This can't be true...the moon landings were fake!

576 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 10:29:37am

re: #565 Gus 802

And the fact that National Guardsmen were killed is a coincidence?

577 Gus  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 10:30:59am

re: #576 ProLifeLiberal

And the fact that National Guardsmen were killed is a coincidence?

So far. The only question appears to be that the Guardsmen were located deep inside of the IHOP.

578 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 10:31:44am

re: #576 ProLifeLiberal

And the fact that National Guardsmen were killed is a coincidence?

Wrong place/ wrong time

No evidence (as of now) to suggest otherwise, so no use trying to put 2 and 2 together to make 5

579 reine.de.tout  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 10:32:37am

re: #572 Alouette

Bear-like? Or an order of nuns?

The nuns would be "Ursuline".

580 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 10:38:58am

re: #579 reine.de.tout

The nuns would be "Ursuline".

heh,,, we called them penguins!

581 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 10:55:09am

re: #544 Obdicut

They're not actually meaningful terms, no. The policies currently held by the Democrats on many subjects were once held by the GOP-- very recently, ten years ago, forty years ago-- and yet the Democrats are still said to be on the 'left' and the GOP on the 'right'.

Maybe they are not meaningful in regards to the US two party system (which can have many reasons or explanations -- I offer that the GOP is extreme right-wing and the Democrats are moderate right-wing and that the actual Left does not have any meaningful party representation in the USA). But your initial statement was much more general than that. But no, they are in general meaningful.

"left" and "right" are never actually defined. They're used as though they are, but they have no actual definition.

Errr. That's a different question (whether they are defined is not the same as whether they are meaningful). But it's still incorrect. They are defined in several contexts and traditions.

582 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 10:57:51am

re: #581 000G

But no, they are in general meaningful.

Nope. They have no actual meaning. I don't know why you think they do.

But it's still incorrect. They are defined in several contexts and traditions.

None of those definitions are coherent. They all contain contradictions.

Can you define what 'left' or 'right' are?

583 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 11:01:07am

Heh. "Left" and "Right" have as little meaning in politics as they do in reality.

584 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 11:31:41am

re: #582 Obdicut

Nope. They have no actual meaning. I don't know why you think they do.

Because they do have meaning (again, "actual" in this context is a filler word, just like "inherent" when talking about meaning. You shouldn't use those) and have been used in a meaningful way demonstrably throughout history since the French Revolution up until present times. They are also not interchangeable (which would be a condition for meaninglessness). I don't know why you think they don't, but I think since you made the original claim, the onus is on you.

None of those definitions are coherent. They all contain contradictions.

That's politics for you: always riddled with contradictions. What contradictions specifically are problematic for you?

Can you define what 'left' or 'right' are?

I think I get your problem. You think of terms in a nominalistic way. That doesn't work with political terms, though.

585 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 11:53:33am

re: #584 000G

No, they've always been used in contradictory and self-defeating ways, even back during the French revolution.

They are also not interchangeable (which would be a condition for meaninglessness).

They are, in fact, interchangeable.

It is both a left and a right-wing position to provide universal healthcare, for example. The left and the right are both in favor of strong government intervention. Both the left and the right are anti-regulation. Both the left and the right are more for individual liberty than government power, and both the left and the right are more for government power than individual liberty.

I think I get your problem. You think of terms in a nominalistic way. That doesn't work with political terms, though.

My 'problem'? And no, I don't think of terms in a nominalistic way, except in the trivial way that I don't think that Platonic ideals exist.

You have a bizarre habit of thinking that you understand someone's thoughts after a very brief exchange. I don't know why you do it. It serves only to piss other people off.

586 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 12:19:43pm

re: #585 Obdicut

No, they've always been used in contradictory and self-defeating ways, even back during the French revolution.

I call your bluff.

They are, in fact, interchangeable.

So saying "Fox News is a right-wing media outlet" makes as much sense as saying "Fox News is a left-wing media outlet"? "When Glenn Beck calls Hitler a left-wing dictator he is incorrect" is as meaningful as saying "When Glenn Beck calls Hitler a right-wing dictator he is correct"? Absurd, and obviously false.

It is both a left and a right-wing position to provide universal healthcare, for example. The left and the right are both in favor of strong government intervention. Both the left and the right are anti-regulation. Both the left and the right are more for individual liberty than government power, and both the left and the right are more for government power than individual liberty.

First of all, listing things up that Left and Right supposedly always have in common (which isn't even true for your list*, but that's not important here) is not a way of proving that they are interchangeable terms. Also, your list is focusing on the statism paradigm for political analysis, which is a pretty narrow point of view and distorts the actual meaning of the historical movements more than it illuminates.

* Left and Right wing do not generally both want universal healthcare, I don't know why you think US quirks matter so much. Whether Left or Right want strong government regulation depends on the historical circumstances, the government already in power and the government realistically obtainable at the time. Left and Right differed and differ a lot in what they want government intervention for, and these policy goals have been and are substantial. How individual liberty is supposed to be achieved is another substantial difference in left and right politics (think stimulus versus bootstraps or empowering the proletariat versus empowering property owners). The different social aims of Left and Right also change throughout history depending on the social circumstances but coherently stay true to their respective idealistic and ideological impetus in regards to social stratification.

One crucial difference, though: The Right is wrong.

My 'problem'? And no, I don't think of terms in a nominalistic way, except in the trivial way that I don't think that Platonic ideals exist.

Yes, your problem, since you seem to go by the assumption that the terms could ever have meaning independent from how people used and use them when you ask me to define what left and right "are".

You have a bizarre habit of thinking that you understand someone's thoughts after a very brief exchange.

I don't know why you think that I do that. You have a bizarre habit of ascribing behaviors to me that I have never exhibited.

587 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:48:58pm

re: #586 000G

So saying "Fox News is a right-wing media outlet" makes as much sense as saying "Fox News is a left-wing media outlet"?

Yes, in that 'right-wing' there just means "GOP". Which is what I said earlier.

You apparently think I said "The words don't have any meaning and can never have any meaning whenever used", instead of, as I actually said, that the words basically are just shorthand for GOP or Democrat, or in a different context, social conservative or not a social conservative.

Did you just skip that bit or something?

"When Glenn Beck calls Hitler a left-wing dictator he is incorrect" is as meaningful as saying "When Glenn Beck calls Hitler a right-wing dictator he is correct"?

You seem to be, for some reason, thinking that I said that these words can't have any contextual meaning. But yes, it's incorrect to say that Hitler was either left or right wing. Saying so is meaningless. If your ad-hod definition of right-wing includes strong state power, then he was right wing. If your ad-hoc definition of the left is for strong state power, then he's left-wing. Really, he is neither, nor are any other totalitarians, in the context of politics as they apply to democracy.

The different social aims of Left and Right also change throughout history depending on the social circumstances but coherently stay true to their respective idealistic and ideological impetus in regards to social stratification.

I'm sorry, but do you see that here your own ad hoc definitions are breaking down? You're apparently implying that one or the other 'side' has a specific view of social stratification, but earlier you touched on the fact, which I raised, that both 'sides' often share the same goal but differ in how to get there. Or they agree on the methods, or they disagree on how to get there. Or they absolutely agree on the goals, and how to get there, but disagree on who should get credit for that idea.

Left and right are simply arbitrary designations for any two political groups that are struggling with each other. What's weird is that even in countries that don't have a two-party system, people still prefer to pretend the left/right distinction exists, even if they have to go through bizarre loops in their head to have it make sense.

Yes, your problem, since you seem to go by the assumption that the terms could ever have meaning independent from how people used and use them when you ask me to define what left and right "are".

Heh. No, I don't assume they could ever have such meaning. That's my entire point, actually. They have no meaning except in how people use them, and people use them in arbitrary and incoherent ways. And they always have.

588 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:54:24pm

re: #587 Obdicut

Heh. No, I don't assume they could ever have such meaning. That's my entire point, actually. They have no meaning except in how people use them, and people use them in arbitrary and incoherent ways. And they always have.

And before you start any triumphal march of 'all language just has meaning as it's used', please understand the context of what I'm saying. Any time anyone uses 'left' or 'right', they may mean something entirely different from the last time it was used. It has no meaning except what can be understood by who the speaker is, who they are addressing, and the personal politics of that own speaker.

Just as you can't know what knife is to the left, without knowing where the viewer of that knife is.

589 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 2:24:10am

re: #587 Obdicut

Yes, in that 'right-wing' there just means "GOP". Which is what I said earlier.

1) It doesn't "just mean that". 2) It was just one US example. Pick another from another country.

You apparently think I said "The words don't have any meaning and can never have any meaning whenever used", instead of, as I actually said, that the words basically are just shorthand for GOP or Democrat, or in a different context, social conservative or not a social conservative.

What you said was "'left' and 'right' are fictitious terms that don't have any inherent meaning. " I guess you contradicted yourself.

But yes, it's incorrect to say that Hitler was either left or right wing. Saying so is meaningless. If your ad-hod definition of right-wing includes strong state power, then he was right wing. If your ad-hoc definition of the left is for strong state power, then he's left-wing. Really, he is neither, nor are any other totalitarians, in the context of politics as they apply to democracy.

So Hitler wasn't right wing because all definitions according to you are "ad hoc". Everything gets molded together in the totalitarianism mold. Got it. So would you be saying that there was no meaningful difference between Pinochet's Chile and East Germany, either?

I'm sorry, but do you see that here your own ad hoc definitions are breaking down? You're apparently implying that one or the other 'side' has a specific view of social stratification, but earlier you touched on the fact, which I raised, that both 'sides' often share the same goal but differ in how to get there.

My "ad hoc" definition is not breaking down: You are simply wrong about them sharing the same goals. They are not, and what you are stating is simply untrue. Same applies to the methods question.

Left and right are simply arbitrary designations for any two political groups that are struggling with each other. What's weird is that even in countries that don't have a two-party system, people still prefer to pretend the left/right distinction exists, even if they have to go through bizarre loops in their head to have it make sense.

Right, no principal difference in regards to left and right between the Bolsheviks and the Czarists. Talk about bizarre loops to get where you want to get indeed.

Heh. No, I don't assume they could ever have such meaning. That's my entire point, actually. They have no meaning except in how people use them, and people use them in arbitrary and incoherent ways. And they always have.

They being used arbitrarily and incoherently sometimes does not mean they are inherently meaningless. There are clear, definable and identifiable centers of meaning that of course have shifted throughout history due to social and political contexts shifting. How else could it be for political terms?

590 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 2:30:50am

re: #588 Obdicut

Any time anyone uses 'left' or 'right', they may mean something entirely different from the last time it was used.

But they usually don't. What's more, people "may" mean something entirely different each time with any terminology. Of course actual usage is always prone to error and arbitrariness.

It has no meaning except what can be understood by who the speaker is, who they are addressing, and the personal politics of that own speaker.

Politics are only meaningful among people and not independently from them such as math or physics. Yes, I knew that. No, it doesn't prove your point.

Just as you can't know what knife is to the left, without knowing where the viewer of that knife is.

So how do you know where the viewer of the knife is? Make references to cardinal directions and a map? What would that real life analogy to that be (totalitarianism? statism paradigm?) and why would that be superior?

591 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 5:01:06am

re: #590 000G

But they usually don't.

Yes, they do. Unless they're just using shorthand for 'GOP' or 'Democrats'.

Politics are only meaningful among people and not independently from them such as math or physics. Yes, I knew that. No, it doesn't prove your point.

I really doubt you could accurately state what my point is.

So how do you know where the viewer of the knife is?

Um, by seeing them? It's really not important.

Make references to cardinal directions and a map?

Sure, if you want. You can say they're facing east, and then you know which direction 'left' is.

What would that real life analogy to that be (totalitarianism? statism paradigm?) and why would that be superior?

No clue what you're talking about here. Left and right in the physical world are the 'real-life' analogy here. I assume you mean what would that be in the political analogy, and then I should have thought it was relatively obvious-- left and right aren't meaningful, since the guy can walk twenty paces away and those old ordinates are completely irrelevant now.

The funny part is I don't actually think you disagree with me.

592 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:00:55pm

re: #591 Obdicut

Yes, they do.

No, they don't.

I really doubt you could accurately state what my point is.

You seem to have problems with that yourself. JFTR: That all political terms ultimately derive their meaning from concrete social contexts and thus only have meaning due to historical circumstances of humans is a truism, "left and right" is not anything special in this regard. Also, it does not follow that there is no inherent meaning to them.

Um, by seeing them? It's really not important.

It is in the context of your analogy.

No clue what you're talking about here. Left and right in the physical world are the 'real-life' analogy here. I assume you mean what would that be in the political analogy, and then I should have thought it was relatively obvious-- left and right aren't meaningful, since the guy can walk twenty paces away and those old ordinates are completely irrelevant now.

Yes, if you change your position, then your position will have changed. No, that doesn't mean that there is no inherent meaning of left and right or that the coordinate grid is bogus.

593 Obdicut  Sun, Sep 11, 2011 8:47:28am

re: #589 000G

So Hitler wasn't right wing because all definitions according to you are "ad hoc". Everything gets molded together in the totalitarianism mold.

No, this is very wrong. Hitler wasn't right-wing because comparing politics in a totalitarian fascist regime and politics in a democracy is ridiculous. They're not on the same scale. You can't describe them with the same vocabulary.

You don't understand the point I'm making, at all. I think it may, yet again, be a language problem for you.


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